[amsat-bb] Re: Yes, DStar can work on LEO,

Mon Feb 26 14:14:57 PST 2007

Gentlemen,

Please do not use FM on any of the transponder satellites, whether D-Star or 
plain FM. FM of any kind is expressly unwelcome on AO-7 especially.

If you would like to set up a test of D-Star via AO-51, please organize the 
effort and send a request to schedule it to ao51-modes at amsat.org or to 
myself directly and we will accommodate the test on a FM satellite, where FM 
belongs. I think it'd be an interesting experiment.

73, Drew KO4MA
AMSAT-NA VP Ops

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "MM" <ka1rrw at yahoo.com>
To: "Dave hartzell" <hartzell at gmail.com>; "Amsat BB" <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 4:18 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Yes, DStar can work on LEO,

In my first memo about Digital Audio on Satellites I
did not have time to go over a few other outstanding
issues, such as Inverting Transponders and Doppler on
the 440 band.

Will DV work on Inverting Transponders?
I do not know.  My guess is that Non-inverting would
work better, but that's just a guess.
Let's try it and find out.

Doppler on 440.
The Doppler on 440 is plus and minus 10 kHz.  That is
too much for the ID-800 and similar radios running
digital audio.  Normal FM 5k deviation voice can work
find at 3 kHz frequency error and is even usable with
noise up to 6 kHz of frequency error.  Digital Voice
would work best on 10 meter / 2 meter satellites, with
non-inverting transponders.  Maybe AO-7 could work.
The other satellite VUSat-OSCAR 52 is inverting.

Future Radios:  Wish List
Most mobile radios made today are designed for channel
steps starting at 5 kHz, 6.25, etc.
It would be desirable if manufactures would design
their rigs for smaller channels steps to allow us a
little more flexibility in using them for FM
satellites.  It would not add much cost to a typical
FM mobile rig to allow 1.0 kHz and 2.5 kHz channel
steps.  For FM satellites you do not need to be
exactly on frequency.  You just need to be in the ball
park (plus and minus 2.5 kHz works).

Miles
--- Dave hartzell <hartzell at gmail.com> wrote:

> Will this still work on an inverting transponder?
>
> On 2/26/07, MM <ka1rrw at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > The Icom IC-800 will work with some Doppler Error
> in
> > Digital voice mode.
> > I have been testing the IC-800 specifically to see
> how
> > well it would work in theory with a 2-meter signal
> > from a simulated LEO Orbit, such as ISS at 240
> miles
> > altitude.
> > The results have been very promising on Earth.
> >
> > The IC-800 will decode good Digital voice, with a
> > frequency error of > 2.5 kHz.
> > And this was at an indicated signal level of S1 on
> the
> > radios S-Meter.
> > At higher S-Signal levels the amount of frequency
> > error the IC-800 can tolerate in digital voice
> mode is
> > higher.
> >
> > I setup a pair of IC-800 20 miles away.  Then by
> using
> > a combination of 5k channels on one radio and
> 6.25k
> > channels on the other radio, i was able to
> simulate 2,
> > 2.5k and 3k channel doppler errors.  A beam
> antenna
> > was used to Lower the indicated Signals levels
> until
> > audio quality droped.
> >
> > The lower the altitude the higher the Doppler
> > (Frequency dependant too).  The Doppler from ISS
> is
> > approximately Plus and Minus 3.3 kHz.  This means
> that
> > If a LEO satellite is approaching on 2-meters, the
> > frequency you will see on your radio will be up to
> 3.3
> > kHz higher for the first minute, then will quickly
> > drop to zero Doppler for a few seconds at the 5
> minute
> > mark (assuming a 10 minute pass).
> >
> > So, in theory, if the Doppler on a transponder
> based
> > satellite is less than 3 kHz and you have signals
> > stronger than 1 S-Unit, it should be possible for
> > 2-way Leo satellite via digital voice.  Anyone
> else
> > have an IC-800 and want to test?
> >
> > Miles WF1F
> >
> > www.marexmg.org
> >
> > ka1rrw at yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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> > _______________________________________________
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>
>
> -- 
> "It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really
> is than to
> persist in delusion, however satisfying and
> reassuring." - Carl Sagan.
> _______________________________________________
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