[amsat-bb] Re: give the newbie the full story on ELK and ARROW please

[n3tl@bellsouth.net]

All,

I apologize for the ignorant, dumbed-down, misguided and non-fully disclosing information I have provided - on this board and off of it - regarding what I have done working the satellites over the past 6 months given the choices I've made about assembling a station.

Jim - Did I miss your response to the direct question I asked last night about what the gain figures for the Elk ought to be - or is that question too ignorant to be worthy of an answer?

Tim - N3TL

------------- Original message from "Jim Danehy" <jdanehy at cinci.rr.com>: -------------- 

Yes folks can make contacts with Arrow and Elk antennas because it is done every day of the week . . . . that is not the argument here . . . my comments have been made to give full disclosure of the several issues which seemed to be 
> ignored by advocats of one over the other . . . 
> Arrow and Elk are LINEARLY polarized antennas . . . . the 17,000 mph moving satellite is throwing off CIRCULAR polarized RF energy . . . please SUBTRACT 3 db or more of gain from your Elk or Arrow when receiving the satellite's signal . . . some still do not understand this concept and never will . . . 
> ignorance is bliss . . . . 
> For years I grinned ; like I am doing now whenever I saw an 18 wheel trucker with a pair of 3 foot high verticals and a big coil of aluminum tubing at the bottom . . . . probably a good analogy . . . . yes they can make contacts for 
> a little distance just like users of the Arrow and Elk can make contacts . . . . 
> 
> yes "field tests" ( anecdotal evidence ) give you some sense of satisfaction . 
> . . . some CB ers enjoy CB operating too . . . ignorance is bliss . . . . 
> .working a buddy across town from his house to yours on 2 mtrs or 435 mhz is one 
> thing because your antennas are not moving . . . . once one of them starts 
> moving quickly ( 17,000 mph ) it all changes . . . I realize that this requires 
> some further reading, studying and understanding . . . .you need to understand 
> the entire story . . . . ignorance is still bliss for far too many . . . 
> 
> up until about 1952 folks used monoband beams . . . . then the triband beams 
> with traps appeared . . . degradation occurs one small step at a time . . . it 
> is progressive too . . . now we have folks doing CW with their computers during 
> contests and they think that they are CW ops . . . . . . note I did not say 
> sending . . . 
> 
> a couple of locals were all in a lather a few years ago when the local DX packet 
> cluster went down . . . what are we going to do . . . I told them it really 
> made no difference to me as I will continue to TUNE the bands for the DX . . . 
> because that is what a DXer does . . . 
> 
> the DUMMYING DOWN of hams is sad . . . of course it depends upon your base of 
> experience . . . . if you do not know any better . . . well ignorance is bliss 
> . . . we do need fuller disclosure to the newbie who asks a question . . . . 
> 
> If somebody says : yes I know all of that but this is my compromise; that is 
> fine . . . but folks are preaching to folks who ask questions : what should I 
> buy ? . . . . there is another option which is being ignored . . . thus my 
> questioning to let the newbie know that these antennas work but there should be 
> a caveat of the compromise . . . without that caveat or understanding they think 
> they are on the Gold Standard . . . ignorance is still bliss . . . in other 
> areas we call it : 
> 
> 1) doing due diligence or 2) informed consent . . . . some folks hand over all 
> their money to somebody else to manage . . .oh yes . .. ignorance turns from 
> being bliss . . .to catastrophic . . . but it goes on and will continue . . . 
> 
> Some folks are selling these antennas like some sell religion . . . with 
> certainty that theirs is the one true one . . .give the newbie the FULL STORY 
> please. . . that has been my goal for several weeks now . . . I have received 
> many nice personal emails thanking me for my comments . . . I am not bashing 
> ARROW or ELK just trying to give a FULL DISCLOSURE which is what should be 
> going on not just blind advocacy for one of these over the other . . . . which 
> is mostly what I have seen with anecdotal comments . . . 
> 
> 
> Jim W9VNE 
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