[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT NA and finding a ride into orbit

John B. Stephensen kd6ozh at comcast.net
Wed Jul 16 14:54:43 PDT 2008 

At this point, I don't see any way to determine which AMSAT group will be 
able to get a satellite into space first.

AMSAT-DL has been going with launching a complete satellite and trying to 
find some discounted space to put it in. However, there is no longer a hope 
of a discount. AMSAT-NA had the same problem but are trying to address it by 
purchasing space in another satellite. When building the complete satellite 
you have a much larger engineering program and more risk. Building 
transponders for inclusion within another satellite means less work and less 
risk but you have to accept the orbit provided by the host.

Its good that both approaches are being persued. The AMSAT-DL and AMSAT-NA 
organizations have good relations with each other and assist each other with 
money and volunteers. Hobbling one organization is likely to cut the chances 
of a near-term HEO by factor of 2.

73,

John
KD6OZH

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Westbrook" <k7zt at suddenlink.net>
To: "John B. Stephensen" <kd6ozh at comcast.net>; "Michael Tondee" 
<mat_62 at netcommander.com>; "Jim Danehy" <jdanehy at cinci.rr.com>; 
<amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 05:47 UTC
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT NA


> John:
> I suppose I should have been clearer, (tough crowd) I was including the 
> Launch Cost.
> Which project do you think could realistically get of the ground first 
> Eagle or PE3?
> This isn't about complaining, I'm simply suggesting a possible path to get 
> an HEO operational ASAP.
>
> I remember quite a surge of fund raising prior to getting AO40 launched, 
> with concrete targets
>
> My fundamental argument remains the same. Pool global resources, determine 
> what the delta is and inform the community. Focus on a single project,
> get one HEO bird operational , starting with the satellite that is closest 
> to completion.  Those who wish to continue to
> have philosophical disagreements on the Eagle design concept and process 
> are welcome to do so..
>
> Regards,
> - Joe K7ZT
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John B. Stephensen" <kd6ozh at comcast.net>
> To: "Joe Westbrook" <k7zt at suddenlink.net>; "Michael Tondee" 
> <mat_62 at netcommander.com>; "Jim Danehy" <jdanehy at cinci.rr.com>; 
> <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 4:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT NA
>
>
>> The key is getting space on a launch vehicle, not completing some 
>> hardware that is a tiny fraction of the cost. It's interesting that 
>> people are complaining about an internal AMSAT-NA personnel issue, but 
>> aren't concerned that AMSAT-DL announced that they can't pay for the P3E 
>> launch.
>>
>> I've managed several engineering groups in the computer industry and have 
>> had people call me up while I was eating Thankgiving dinner and resign. 
>> On Monday everything was resolved.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> John
>> KD6OZH
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Joe Westbrook" <k7zt at suddenlink.net>
>> To: "John B. Stephensen" <kd6ozh at comcast.net>; "Michael Tondee" 
>> <mat_62 at netcommander.com>; "Jim Danehy" <jdanehy at cinci.rr.com>; 
>> <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 03:19 UTC
>> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT NA
>>
>>
>>>I fully expect to receive incoming slings and arrows for my input, and I 
>>>do understand for those who get their egos fed by leading/participating 
>>>in the design process for AMSAT-NA won't like this idea, but hey who is 
>>>AMSAT here to serve anyway?
>>>
>>> Generally, the following conditions seem to exist at this time (please 
>>> feel free to correct me if any of my observations are inaccurate):
>>>
>>> 1.  We don't seem to be within a stones throw of getting Eagle off the 
>>> ground
>>> 2.  Engineering resources in disarray
>>> 3.  No Lab
>>> 4.  Most folks who participate really want to see a HEO up as soon as 
>>> humanly possible
>>> 5.  The cost to put an HEO into orbit seems to be prohibitive for any 
>>> single organization to pull off without deep pocket sponsorship
>>> 6.  AMSAT-DL Has an HEO that is nearing completion
>>>
>>> Given the extent that these circumstances are close to reality,  why on 
>>> earth wouldn't we consider transferring the sum total of Eagle resources
>>> (with membership approval of course) to AMSAT-DL, for the purpose of 
>>> completing PE3?
>>>
>>> Next step would be to determine the exact the cost and a launch 
>>> opportunity. Let the Ham Satellite Community know what those cost are 
>>> and then raise the additional funds toward that single goal.
>>>
>>> Following the final launch and commissioning of PE3, then move on to 
>>> getting Eagle back on track.
>>>
>>> I definitely could get behind that sort of concrete effort.  What we 
>>> have now seems to be a bit of a distant dream.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> - Joe, K7ZT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "John B. Stephensen" <kd6ozh at comcast.net>
>>> To: "Michael Tondee" <mat_62 at netcommander.com>; "Jim Danehy" 
>>> <jdanehy at cinci.rr.com>; <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 8:29 PM
>>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT NA
>>>
>>>
>>>> What most HEO users never fully realized (including me) was that they 
>>>> were
>>>> the recipients of charity. Now that launches are commercial operations, 
>>>> the
>>>> AMSATs have to pay the same as everyone else and HEOs are vastly more
>>>> expensive than LEOs. The energy requirements are much larger and you 
>>>> can't
>>>> just use a surplus SS-18 as a launch vehicle.
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>> KD6OZH
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Michael Tondee" <mat_62 at netcommander.com>
>>>> To: "Jim Danehy" <jdanehy at cinci.rr.com>; <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 22:34 UTC
>>>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT NA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> It's been going on since I got here a couple of years ago Jim. For 
>>>>> sure,
>>>>> everyone is anxious to see an HEO launched but some people feel the 
>>>>> need
>>>>> to
>>>>> get online and constantly whine about why we don't have one. I think 
>>>>> there
>>>>> are a few folks on here that need to get a dictionary and look up the 
>>>>> word
>>>>> "volunteer".
>>>>> People better start to realize that there are no guarantees. I would 
>>>>> say
>>>>> that at the current rate of apparent progress that the AMSAT NA 
>>>>> mission
>>>>> statement looks all wet. Prospects don't seem to be much better on P3E
>>>>> either. What good will it do to have a fully built satellite without 
>>>>> the
>>>>> funds to launch it?
>>>>> I just try to enjoy what we've got up there and hope for the best in 
>>>>> the
>>>>> future. In the end that's all we can really do isn't it? All the 
>>>>> whining
>>>>> in
>>>>> the world and the backhanded comments about AO-51 and the other FM 
>>>>> sats
>>>>> aren't going to get the HEO birds up there any faster.
>>>>> 73,
>>>>> Michael W4HIJ
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Jim Danehy" <jdanehy at cinci.rr.com>
>>>>> To: <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 4:27 PM
>>>>> Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT NA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I have been off the satellites for 25 years. I just spent a bunch of 
>>>>>>money
>>>>>>for antennas and rotors to get back on. After listening to all of the
>>>>>>belly
>>>>>>aching I wonder if I should join AMSAT (again). Maybe I should try EME 
>>>>>>. .
>>>>>>. .  the moon will be there long after I am gone. I have listened on 
>>>>>>AO 7
>>>>>>and VO 52 to test my 2 mtr yagis. I should be QRV soon. Belly aching 
>>>>>>just
>>>>>>looks bad even if it is warranted. I am not sure if it accomplishes 
>>>>>>much
>>>>>>other than venting for the vanquished. Human nature ugh. Lighten up 
>>>>>>folks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jim W9VNE
>>>>>> Cincinnati, Ohio em79
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the 
>>>>> author.
>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite 
>>>>> program!
>>>>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the 
>>>> author.
>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite 
>>>> program!
>>>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

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