[amsat-bb] Re: Elk set-up [was: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz logperiodic for sats?]

n3tl@bellsouth.net n3tl at bellsouth.net
Sat Apr 18 13:15:50 PDT 2009


Hey Bill,

Based on my experience with it when using the Elk as a handheld antenna, I believe I'd at least try the trick of using a 90-degree connector at the feedpoint and running your coax along the boom to the back of the antenna. By the way - the hardware/PVC necessary for mast mounting comes with the antenna. For a hand-holding handle, I needed only a few feet of PVC and one T connector, about 40 cents worth of parts. You shouldn't need anything for mast-mounting.

I don't have an answer for your preamp question because, as I recall, you're using one full-duplex radio. I'm using two radios and a duplexer here, and would opt for preamps at the radios. I know that's not as effective as mast-mounting, but it would probably have to suffice. I'm sure someone else will provide some input on this.

Best of luck with it all.

73,

Tim - N3TL
-------------- Original message from Bill Dzurilla <billdz.geo at yahoo.com>: -------------- 


> I have ordered an Elk. Any set-up tips? I see they recommend using a PVC T-connector to attach the antenna to the mast. This aims the antenna parallel 
> to the ground. How to mount it for a fixed 20 degree elevation? 
> Also, as this antenna has only one feedline, is there any way to mount preamps 
> for both 70cm and 2m? 
> 
> Thanks and 73, Bill NZ5N 
> 
> 
> --- On Sat, 4/18/09, Rafael Valdez G. wrote: 
> 
> > From: Rafael Valdez G. > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic for 
> sats? > To: "n3tl at bellsouth.net " , "billdz.geo at yahoo.com " 
> , "nss at mwt.net " 
> > Cc: "amsat-bb at amsat.org " 
> > Date: Saturday, April 18, 2009, 12:04 AM 
> > Defiinetely your solution for hoa is the elk as far a I 
> > understand you can have a Tv. Antenna which te elk can 
> > fairly look like.... 
> > 
> > I am a true believer of Elk' eficiency and 
> > portability... 
> > 
> > GL 73's 
> > 
> > XE2RV 
> > VUCC 164 satellite 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message----- 
> > From: n3tl at bellsouth.net 
> > 
> > Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:52:03 
> > To: ; 
> > Cc: ; 
> > 
> > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log 
> > periodic for sats? 
> > 
> > 
> > Hey Bill, 
> > 
> > Your comments about construction, location, etc., are 
> > right one, based on my experiences here. I actually move 
> > from one side of the house to the other depending on whether 
> > passes are to my east or west. 
> > 
> > A couple of other things affect the performance I'm 
> > getting, too. One of the most important is that my decision 
> > to continue using a handheld antenna means I have less than 
> > six feet of coax from the radio to the antenna. I'm 
> > still getting some loss, but not nearly as much as I'd 
> > get by putting antennas in the attic and running much longer 
> > feed lines to them. Another is a little trick K4DLG in 
> > Florida passed along to me a while back. 
> > 
> > He has a log periodic for HF, and the coax runs from the 
> > antenna feedpoint along the main boom to the back of the 
> > antenna before heading down to the shack. Taking that lead, 
> > he did the same thing with the Elk he bought. Doing so 
> > mitigated any significant changes in SWR due to moving the 
> > antenna around while hand-holding it during a pass. I tried 
> > it here and have observed the same thing. For me, at this 
> > location (inside or out), 8 degrees of elevation was the 
> > best I could hope for with the Arrow I had. In all the 
> > months I used that antenna, I made only a few contacts when 
> > a given satellite was below 8 degrees here. When I started 
> > using the Elk, that "bottom line" immediately 
> > dropped to 4 degrees. And when I tried K4DLG's 
> > suggestion of running the feedline parallel to the boom, the 
> > 4 degrees dropped to 3. 
> > 
> > And, as you point out, depending on the location and 
> > relative path of a given pass, I can work even lower and 
> > make contacts, as I have with some stations in Europe on 
> > AO-7. 
> > 
> > All of that being said, I also still lose the satellites 
> > due to obstruction, as you have observed with your Arrow. 
> > When it comes to the FM LEO satellites, only the ISS 
> > transmits back to us using more than milliwatt power levels. 
> > I know that AO-51 is capable of 1 watt or more, but it 
> > generally is not configured to transmit at those levels. 
> > Drew or someone, please correct me if that statement is 
> > inaccurate. The published stats on AO-27 report a nominal 
> > output of 500 mW, and SO-50 is reported to operate with a 
> > nominal 250 mW output. I believe both of them also use 
> > quarter-wave vertical antennas, which are 0-gain. 
> > 
> > Given those power levels, it doesn't take much to 
> > begin affecting reception, especially for handheld stations. 
> > From here at my home, that quarter of azimuth from 90 
> > degrees to 180 degrees is my worst. For really consistent 
> > reception in that part of the sky, I need upwards of 30 
> > degrees elevation when I'm standing outside at ground 
> > level. On the second floor of the house, I get reception 
> > good enough to facilitate contacts with about 15 degrees of 
> > elevation at azimuths from 90 degrees to about 130. I still 
> > need close to 30 from azimuth 130 to 180 no matter where I 
> > try to operate from - in the yard or upstairs. 
> > 
> > I hope you're able to come up with a solution for your 
> > location that works even better than you expect! 
> > 
> > 73 to all, 
> > 
> > Tim - N3TL 
> > 
> > 
> > -------------- Original message from Bill Dzurilla 
> > : -------------- 
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > Tim, 
> > > Yes, your QSO with F2IL is becoming famous, congrats. 
> > I think the performance of indoor antennas must be heavily 
> > dependent on the location of the shack and the construction 
> > materials used on the house. I moved my Eggbeater and ground 
> > plane to the attic from outside and noticed a sharp drop in 
> > performance. Also tried the Arrow here inside the shack and 
> > it did not do too well. And noticed that, even outside in 
> > the yard with the Arrow, I lose the sats at low elevation, 
> > when they drop below the level of nearby roof lines. On my 
> > DXpeditions to Swan Island and Jamaica, where there was 
> > unobstructed view over the ocean, I could easily make 
> > contacts with less than 1 degree of elevation with the same 
> > HT and 
> > > Arrow. 
> > > 
> > > 73, Bill NZ5N 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- On Fri, 4/17/09, n3tl at bellsouth.net wrote: 
> > > 
> > > > From: n3tl at bellsouth.net > Subject: Re: 
> > [amsat-bb] Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic 
> > for 
> > > sats? 
> > > > To: "Joe" , billdz.geo at yahoo.com 
> > > > Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org 
> > > > Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 10:19 PM 
> > > > Bill and all, 
> > > > 
> > > > Joe is right. F2IL gave me a 569 report on AO-7 
> > Mode B 
> > > > Thursday evening - and I was hand-holding my Elk 
> > on the 
> > > > second floor of my house, pointing it to the 
> > northeast at a 
> > > > spot on a windowless wall. When we worked, AO-7 
> > was at 
> > > > roughly 3.5 degrees elevation here. 
> > > > 
> > > > I wish I had decided to try these low-angle 
> > passes months 
> > > > ago! 
> > > > 
> > > > 73 to all, 
> > > > 
> > > > Tim - N3TL 
> > > > -------------- Original message from Joe 
> > > > : -------------- 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > You'd be amazed at what you can do with 
> > an indoor 
> > > > yagi also.. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > My first 2 meter ant was a 3 ele quad on a 
> > photo 
> > > > tripod that sat right 
> > > > > next to me on the floor in the shack, 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Joe WB9SBD 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Bill Dzurilla wrote: 
> > > > > >Are there plans anywhere for a homebrew 
> > version of 
> > > > the Elk duo bander? After reading through the 
> > prior thread 
> > > > about the poor performance of Eggbeaters and 
> > other omnis, 
> > > > I'm ready to risk the wrath of my Homeowners 
> > Association 
> > > > and put up 
> > > > > a small beam. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >Or, anybody have an Elk for sale? 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >73, Bill NZ5N 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > >_______________________________________________ 
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> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
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