[amsat-bb] Re: OT: Universal Text Messaging and Pagers (WAS Re: Re:dream)

Tue Jul 7 11:05:33 PDT 2009

Good afternoon to all - 
On the subject of amatuer paging 

While in an email letter to Nigel (sorry I don't remember his call)
I may have just convenced (sp) myself that paging is probably perfectly legal in the ham bands

Let's see if I can follow my own logic and then let's get a paging network up and running :-)

I am not In front of my computer and not looking at Part 97 - so I maybe off a bit

There are a couple of parts of part 97 that applie

Paging is a digital mode - YES got that covered
POCSAG the format for paging is open and avaiable to anyone who wants to use it - freely avaible protocal - YES got that covered

The issue comes when you think as pageing as a one way device - now Part 97 limits what type of one way transmittions we can do - I think it specifically say there are three types of one way transmittions we can do. I can't remember all of them - the two I do remember and I think applie are trying to make a QSO and the telemetery - weather, local and national emergancy, dx reports,  would fit without question into the telemetery area - each can be set on its own capcode and every amateur pager can have those cap codes programmed into it - However 
Pagers all have a "personal" capcode - we have a choice of either setting all of the personal capcodes to the same one - not using personal and not recording the personal capcodes - OR finding the reasoning why a personal capcode is legal to use -  
We are allowed to make one way transmittions to establish a QSO - as I said I am not looking at part 97 but as I recall - it doesn't say we have to establish on the same band or at the same time - just that we can use it to establish a QSO - 
So let's say I know your personal capcode - I send to you making a call up now "KF8II de KD8BXP pls call on 40meter 7.100 at 2200z"

I think that would be 100% legal. So it is all about content and not about the techonolgy of it being a oneway device

LeRoy, KD8BXP
http://www.HamOhio.com

Sent on the Now Network™ from my SprintÂ® BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Dave" <dave at mynatt.biz>

Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 11:28:27 
To: <AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>; 'Bob Bruninga '<bruninga at usna.edu>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: OT: Universal Text Messaging and Pagers (WAS Re: Re:
	dream)

Doesn't anyone know someone at the FCC to get a prelim opinion or 'sense of
the commission' without a rule having to be made? A phone call maybe...

Dave 
DM78qd // KA0SWT
If it weren't for Philo T. Farnsworth, inventor of television, we'd still be
eating frozen radio dinners.-- Johnny Carson
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org] On
Behalf Of Bob Bruninga 
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:55 AM
To: Ben Jackson
Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: OT: Universal Text Messaging and Pagers (WAS Re: Re:
dream)

>> Using paging devices on Amateur Radio is perfectly legal like any 
>> other radio.  It all boils down to use.  If you use it for setting up 
>> a one-way systemm for a pizza delivery service, it is clearly 
>> illegal.  If you use it as part of your overall local communications 
>> network of amateur radio volunters it is just one more tool in the 
>> tool box.
>
> Unfortunately, the way Part 97 currently reads is that most pager 
> transmissions to an individual are illegal under Â§97.111(b), as it is 
> a "one way"
> transmission that, in most cases, would not qualify under the "legal" 
> list.

Sorry, one can also claim that every transmission is one-way because only
under full duplex conditions is a system truely two-way.   There are all
kinds of applications in amateur radio where one side of the link uses
different hardware than the other return side, and once can make all kinds
of arguments as to how much delay is involved between the transmission and
the receiption.. 3 seconds?  10 seconds, a minute?  10 minutes?  A day?
When you make a call to a party TO ESTABLISH commmunications it is one way,
until the person gets his system going and responds.

In my mind a pager is just another way  of making the call.  THe intent is
NOT ONE WAY, it is to provide a call-up or a message as part of a CLEARLY
TWO-WAY amateur network.

There is no reason to nit pick rules.  When one is broadcasting (one way) to
the general public or using amateur radio inappropriately, I think everyone
can tell when it is blatanly illegal.  I just don't see the FCC cares one
nit about some of these debates when any one can see that hams are taking
initiative to better their use of the radio art.

>> You just have to ignore the curmudgeons who have nothing better to do 
>> than nit-pick ways to prevent other hams from developing useful 
>> applications of technology.  A pager is simply the text-to-user 
>> device integrated into the normal local 2-way amateur radio 
>> communications system.
>
> The issue is that, according to Part 97, it can't be used beyond QSTs, 
> telemetry, or "necessary"
> emergency communications.  Could I get away with setting up such a 
> system? Likely. Do I foot to stand on when my local OO comes knocking?
> Not so much.

Some OO's are part of the problem, not the solution...

>> An amateur satellite would make a great downlink to these pagers.  
>> Again, the goal should simply be, any message, any time, anywhere 
>> using any device to any user by callsign alone.

Bob, WB4APR

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb