[amsat-bb] Re: OT: Universal Text Messaging and Pagers (WAS Re:Re:dream)

Tue Jul 7 11:58:59 PDT 2009

Don't forget the 6 meter Model control frequencies...

Roger
WA1KAT
----- Original Message -----
From: <kd8bxp at aol.com>
To: <dave at mynatt.biz>; <AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>; "'Bob Bruninga '"
<bruninga at usna.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 2:05 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: OT: Universal Text Messaging and Pagers (WAS
Re:Re:dream)

> Good afternoon to all -
> On the subject of amatuer paging
>
> While in an email letter to Nigel (sorry I don't remember his call)
> I may have just convenced (sp) myself that paging is probably perfectly
legal in the ham bands
>
> Let's see if I can follow my own logic and then let's get a paging network
up and running :-)
>
> I am not In front of my computer and not looking at Part 97 - so I maybe
off a bit
>
> There are a couple of parts of part 97 that applie
>
> Paging is a digital mode - YES got that covered
> POCSAG the format for paging is open and avaiable to anyone who wants to
use it - freely avaible protocal - YES got that covered
>
> The issue comes when you think as pageing as a one way device - now Part
97 limits what type of one way transmittions we can do - I think it
specifically say there are three types of one way transmittions we can do. I
can't remember all of them - the two I do remember and I think applie are
trying to make a QSO and the telemetery - weather, local and national
emergancy, dx reports,  would fit without question into the telemetery
area - each can be set on its own capcode and every amateur pager can have
those cap codes programmed into it - However
> Pagers all have a "personal" capcode - we have a choice of either setting
all of the personal capcodes to the same one - not using personal and not
recording the personal capcodes - OR finding the reasoning why a personal
capcode is legal to use -
> We are allowed to make one way transmittions to establish a QSO - as I
said I am not looking at part 97 but as I recall - it doesn't say we have to
establish on the same band or at the same time - just that we can use it to
establish a QSO -
> So let's say I know your personal capcode - I send to you making a call up
now "KF8II de KD8BXP pls call on 40meter 7.100 at 2200z"
>
> I think that would be 100% legal. So it is all about content and not about
the techonolgy of it being a oneway device
>
> LeRoy, KD8BXP
> http://www.HamOhio.com
>
> Sent on the Now Network from my Sprint® BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Dave" <dave at mynatt.biz>
>
> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 11:28:27
> To: <AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>; 'Bob Bruninga '<bruninga at usna.edu>
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: OT: Universal Text Messaging and Pagers (WAS Re:
Re:
>     dream)
>
>
> Doesn't anyone know someone at the FCC to get a prelim opinion or 'sense
of
> the commission' without a rule having to be made? A phone call maybe...
>
>
> Dave
> DM78qd // KA0SWT
> If it weren't for Philo T. Farnsworth, inventor of television, we'd still
be
> eating frozen radio dinners.-- Johnny Carson
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org] On
> Behalf Of Bob Bruninga
> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:55 AM
> To: Ben Jackson
> Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: OT: Universal Text Messaging and Pagers (WAS Re:
Re:
> dream)
>
> >> Using paging devices on Amateur Radio is perfectly legal like any
> >> other radio.  It all boils down to use.  If you use it for setting up
> >> a one-way systemm for a pizza delivery service, it is clearly
> >> illegal.  If you use it as part of your overall local communications
> >> network of amateur radio volunters it is just one more tool in the
> >> tool box.
> >
> > Unfortunately, the way Part 97 currently reads is that most pager
> > transmissions to an individual are illegal under §97.111(b), as it is
> > a "one way"
> > transmission that, in most cases, would not qualify under the "legal"
> > list.
>
> Sorry, one can also claim that every transmission is one-way because only
> under full duplex conditions is a system truely two-way.   There are all
> kinds of applications in amateur radio where one side of the link uses
> different hardware than the other return side, and once can make all kinds
> of arguments as to how much delay is involved between the transmission and
> the receiption.. 3 seconds?  10 seconds, a minute?  10 minutes?  A day?
> When you make a call to a party TO ESTABLISH commmunications it is one
way,
> until the person gets his system going and responds.
>
> In my mind a pager is just another way  of making the call.  THe intent is
> NOT ONE WAY, it is to provide a call-up or a message as part of a CLEARLY
> TWO-WAY amateur network.
>
> There is no reason to nit pick rules.  When one is broadcasting (one way)
to
> the general public or using amateur radio inappropriately, I think
everyone
> can tell when it is blatanly illegal.  I just don't see the FCC cares one
> nit about some of these debates when any one can see that hams are taking
> initiative to better their use of the radio art.
>
> >> You just have to ignore the curmudgeons who have nothing better to do
> >> than nit-pick ways to prevent other hams from developing useful
> >> applications of technology.  A pager is simply the text-to-user
> >> device integrated into the normal local 2-way amateur radio
> >> communications system.
> >
> > The issue is that, according to Part 97, it can't be used beyond QSTs,
> > telemetry, or "necessary"
> > emergency communications.  Could I get away with setting up such a
> > system? Likely. Do I foot to stand on when my local OO comes knocking?
> > Not so much.
>
> Some OO's are part of the problem, not the solution...
>
> >> An amateur satellite would make a great downlink to these pagers.
> >> Again, the goal should simply be, any message, any time, anywhere
> >> using any device to any user by callsign alone.
>
> Bob, WB4APR
>
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