[amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's (Howard Kowall) (BenJackson)

[kd8bxp@aol.com]

CLIP {
It appears that US Customs is not concerned with individuals buying these
non-certified radios in very small quantities from offshore shops or eBay
storefronts etc.  If HRO, AES, etc. wanted to advertise one of these non-
certified radios, then I would expect FCC to step in and question it. }

It seems to me a few years back the fcc did step in and stop the sales of some china or tiwani (and I know I spelled that wrong). UHF radios at hamvention in Dayton it was a few years ago maybe 2004/2005

one of my buddys got one of the radio it wasn't a jingtong but was something like that weird two name thing.  It was uhf and sort of meant for amateur use, at least it had some features that hams would want pl tones, etc -- but it from the factory was able to transmit on everything - and I think it would go to 1khz steps as well. But basicly from 400 mhz to 499.999 mhz it would transmit, the thing that got most people was the cost 25 bucks american brand new - they sold a lot of them - the FCC shut them down in a matter of a few hours

I think if they (FCC) knows about they will stop it, once it is here and in the amateur's hands he is ultimatly reasonable for it's use or miss use - 
There are a couple of amps floating around that don't meet the requirement and legally can't be sold in the states (I believe what the ad for it says is it can not be imported) the ad says once it is here it is legal to use I don't know if that is true or not but I do know a lot of hams that have this amp - I forget what model it is now, but it was made for the FT817. The reason it couldn't get certified was because the power of the 817 is qrp and something about in the hf bands you have to have 15 or 20 watts to drive the amp (- honestly I knew I have since forgotten the amount) but that was generally why this amp wouldn't pass the requirements
It was designed to work on the 817

Ok I am just rambling now sorry about that

Just thought I would put my 2 cents in

LeRoy, KD8BXP
Sent on the Now Network™ from my Sprint® BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK)" <amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net>

Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:21:04 
To: <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's (Howard Kowall) (Ben
	Jackson)


Hi Clint!

> The original post described a commercial HT ... operating WAY OUT of
> the 2M and 440 amateur bands. For marketing and sales within the
> United States, FCC certification is required.
>
> Do people purchase non-FCC-certified commercial rigs and use them on
> the amateur bands? Yes.
>
> Is it legal to do so? No.

The problem with this whole line of messages is that two completely separate
issues are being thrown together - the purchase and use of the non-FCC-
certified radios by hams on the ham bands.  I am not a lawyer.  Here goes...

First of all, FCC requires certification for ham gear in two instances:

1. Amplifiers for bands below 144 MHz. (see 97.315 and 97.317 of the
FCC rules, http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/news/part97/ )
2. Ham receivers or transceivers that cover outside ham bands above
30 MHz (receivers outside ham bands are covered by FCC Part 15;
transmitters outside the ham bands would be covered by another part
or part of the FCC rules depending on the frequencies covered).

Take a look at this web site:

http://www.fcc.gov/oet/ea/fccid/

This lets you search the FCC Equipment Authorization Database.  Take
the FCC ID number off your radio, cell phone, or anything else that might
have that number, and you get access to information about that item.
There is the grant of certification, sometimes there is other information like
test reports, copies of manuals, photos (internal and/or external), and other
items submitted by the manufacturer or importer/distributor as part of the
process.

If you have a dual-band HT or mobile, put that ID number into the link above
and read the grant.  The grant only covers the receiver, not the transmitter
part of the radio.  It will be certified according to some subpart of FCC Part
15, *not* Part 97.  Sometimes the grant will be for the frequency ranges
outside the ham bands (this is all that FCC requires), but many will also
get certification for the ham bands to simplify the application.  If the gear
only covers the ham bands, or is confined to operation below 30 MHz
(i.e., no expanded low-VHF or 6m coverage), certification is not required.

It appears that US Customs is not concerned with individuals buying these
non-certified radios in very small quantities from offshore shops or eBay
storefronts etc.  If HRO, AES, etc. wanted to advertise one of these non-
certified radios, then I would expect FCC to step in and question it.  Note
that the major ham manufacturers tease us with advertisements for new
radios in the magazines before certification has been granted by FCC,
but with a disclaimer that the radio cannot be offered for sale or lease
until that certification is granted.  A way to step around restrictions on
marketing a non-certified radio, I think.  It appears that FCC has not
tried to get eBay to stop those non-US sellers of the non-certified gear
from being visible to US visitors to that site.  And the big 3 or 4 ham
manufacturers still announce radios without FCC certification with that
disclaimer in the ad.

Now on to using these radios.  Clint - since you have been stridently
insisting on the illegality of using non-FCC-certified radios on the US
ham bands, could you please show us the specific law/rule/regulation
that states that hams cannot use non-certified commercial gear in the
ham bands?  I am aware of is the technical requirements in FCC
Part 97, Subpart D, which cover whatever radio - homebrew, kit, or
made in a factory - that we may decide to use on the ham bands
and other parts about not causing interference etc.  The radio may
not be FCC certified, but if it meets Part 97 - and the licensee is not
transmitting outside the bounds of his/her license with it - that's what
FCC is interested in.  FCC Part 97 does not speak to the origin of
the radio or whether or not it has certification (except for HF and 6m
amplifiers, which require certification as outlined in 97.315 and
97.317).

Now, where was I again?  Oh, yes, the AMSAT-BB list, talking about
amateur satellites...    ;-)

73!





Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
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