[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT-BB NF formula posting

[Nick Pugh K5QXJ]

Domenico nice explanation please send the papers to the list

Thanks
nick

-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org] On
Behalf Of i8cvs
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 10:24 PM
To: AMSAT-BB; Ralph Wallio, W0RPK
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT-BB NF formula posting

Hi Ralph, W0RPK

I will write the formula in another arithmetical form:


NF   =  ( Vi x 10^-6 )^2 ) x 20 ) / (BW x S/N ) ) log    ) x 10 )  + 174  
   dB
10
                                          
where:

Vi = input signal in uV applied over the 50 ohm RX input BW = Band Wide in
Hz (2400 Hz for SSB) S/N = Signal to Noise ratio in power ratio = 10 

Going to your YAESU FT-726 R the sensitivity is specified for 10 dB of
(S+N)/N  and not for 10 dB of S/N so that we must convert first (S+N)/N into
S/N with the following formula:

            S + N
S/N = ----------- - 1  =  10 log     (10-1) = 9.54 in power ratio 
               N                            10 

Calculating the sensitivity for 2 meters SSB/CW  less than 0.15 uV  for 10
dB (S+N)/N  we have:


NF =    ( 0.15 x 10^-6)^2 ) x 20 ) / ( 2400 x 9.54 ) ) log    ) x 10 ) + 174
=  6.9 dB 
   dB
10
                             ____________________________________

Calculating the sensitivity for 70 cm SSB/CW  less than 0.15 uV  for 12 dB
(S+N)/N  we have:


            S + N
S/N = ----------- - 1  =  10 log     (15.84 -1) = 14.84 in power ratio 
               N                            10 


NF  =   (0.15 x 10^-6 )^2 ) x 20 ) / ( 2400 x 14.84 ) ) log   ) x 10 ) + 174
= 5.01 dB 
   dB
10


CONCLUSION:

The sensitivity in 2 meters and 70 cm is the same 0.15 uV but in 70 cm 0.15
uV are specified for 12 dB (S+N)/N and not 10 dB (S+N)/N as in 2 meters and
so it happen that the receiver is more sensitive in 70 cm 

The formulas where published into an old issue of the Ham Radio Magazine
early about 1973 and I have to find it in my many papers after that I will
send a copy to you but I remember  it very often ant this numbars are burned
into my brain HI HI ! 

I hope this helps and if you have any question please let me know.

73" de i8CVS Domenico

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Ralph Wallio, W0RPK
  To: domenico.i8cvs at tin.it
  Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 4:48 PM
  Subject: AMSAT-BB NF formula posting


  Domenico --

  Thanks for posting the NF formula.  Your results for the ICOM IC-R10 cause
me to reconsider what I have been estimating
  for my much older YAESU FT-726R.  Specifications from the Yaesu Operating
Manual:

  2m SSB/CW     Less than 0.15uV for 10dB (S+N)/N

  70cm SSB/CW   Less than 0.15uV for 12dB (S+N)/N

  I would like to make this calculation myself but I am having trouble
duplicating your results probably due to uncertainties
  resulting from how the formula is formatted by AMSAT-BB.

  Perhaps you have a document source to suggest that will resolve these
uncertainties.

  TNX es 73 de Ralph W0RPK

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