[amsat-bb] ARRL Bandplans was local yokels

Doug - k4gkj k4gkj at embarqmail.com
Sun Aug 31 16:35:56 UTC 2014 

Very well said. The ARRL is not as organized as they suggest. 


Doug Bennight
K4GKJ
850-528-5772
850-926-2052 




-------- Original message --------
From: Glen Zook <gzook at yahoo.com> 
Date:  
To: M5AKA <m5aka at yahoo.co.uk>,AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> 
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] ARRL Bandplans was local yokels 
 
There are even more problems with the ARRL's "band plan" for 10-meters.  The frequency of 29.300 MHz is widely used, especially in Asia, for 10-meter FM operation and, when 10-meters is "open", it is easy to work, from the United States, Japanese stations on 29.300 MHz.  Then, 29.510 MHz is within the 29.500 MHz to 29.700 MHz segment in which FM repeater operation is allowed for stations within the jurisdiction of the FCC.

Also, many operators are not aware that FM/PM operation is allowed anywhere that phone operation is allowed EXCEPT for the 5-channels in the 60-meter band.  The only restriction is that, below 29.000 MHz, the modulation index cannot exceed 1.  Modulation index is defined as the absolute number of the deviation divided by the maximum frequency of modulation.  This means that, below 29.000 MHz, the deviation is generally limited to +/- 3 kHz.  Most "modern" transceivers, that have FM operation available, have a "narrow" FM position which limits the deviation to +/- 2.5 kHz.  With the usual +/- 5 kHz deviation, and with the 3000 Hz maximum modulation frequency in most equipment these days, the modulation index is 1.66667 which means that such modulation has to remain above 29.000 MHz.  Conversely, a deviation of +/- 2.5 kHz results in a modulation index of 0.83333 which does meet the requirement of the modulation index being less than 1.

However, in the 28.300 MHz to 28.500 MHz segment, in which Novice Class and Technician Class phone operation is allowed, those classes can only use SSB for phone operation, as well as CW, as outlined in 47 CFR Part 97.  However, higher class licensees, General Class, Advanced Class, and Amateur Extra Class, operators can also use AM, FM, PM, ACSB, as well as SSB in that same segment.

Glen, K9STH 
AMSAT-239/ LM-463

Website:  http://k9sth.net


On Sunday, August 31, 2014 4:10 AM, M5AKA <m5aka at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:



The ARRL bandplans use inconsistent language to describe the satellite segments, e.g. 

10m  - Satellite Downlinks 
  2m  - OSCAR subband
70cm - Satellite only (internationally)
13cm - Amateur Satellite Communications

There is no explanation of what the acronym OSCAR means, so how are people expected to know ?

BTW does anyone know why ARRL thinks 29.3-29.510 is Downlink only ? and I haven't a clue what exactly they mean by using "(internationally)" for 70cm.


73 Trevor M5AKA





On Sunday, 31 August 2014, 3:38, Jim Wright <wrightjrjr at verizon.net> wrote:



We need to be be thankful the birds are not close enough to reach out 
and touch.  Back in the days before the 600khz split on VHF, there were 
two repeater owners, one on 34-97, the other on 34-94 which became the  
standard.  Someone from the "other group" drilled a hole into a fence 
post, telephone pole, or some such support easily hiding an oscillator 
on the input freq. of the other machine.  A tuned circuit and diode were 
all that was needed to  key the oscillator.  The hole was very close to 
the repeater site so that once the repeater came up, it keyed the bug 
until the repeater timed out.  This went on until the owners just 
changed to a different freq. pair altogether. Yes, it was before solar 
cells were cheap enough, so they used batteries.

I am glad we have moving birds and not stationary ones.  Somehow someone 
would repeat this on the birds today if it were easy.

The point being, gentlemen and gentlewomen, should coordinate and help 
each other, not tie up repeaters and ISP time fussing about human nature 
that is not going to change with out conscious effort.

Jim WA4IVM



On 8/30/2014 8:53 PM, Doug - k4gkj wrote:
> And your comment alone tells the complete, un-edited fact on how messed up hams are at "communicating".  (as in I appreciate your comment and your very correct). We should have one plan, that will not be in contradiction or confusing to anyone with a reasonable IQ can study and reference.
>
>   This idea of multiple plans is the reason I stay confused, wondering what I'm doing right, wrong, and not a soul to consult (when it comes to folks I know and trust that have considerable satellite experience - which is *zero*).
>
> Sadly, I don't see the ARRL and ARISS and other interested organizations to get together and making this common and useful plan. Too many existing repeaters that may be on the freqs, and who knows what else. Depressing in a way.
>
>
>
>
> Doug Bennight
> K4GKJ
>
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Glen Zook <gzook at yahoo.com>
> Date:
> To: Doug - k4gkj <k4gkj at embarqmail.com>,normanlizeth at gmail.com,amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] local yokels
>  
> If you mean by "band plan chart", the colored one that is available from the ARRL website, that is NOT an appropriate place for the information.  The ARRL chart reflects what is in the regulations concerning the emissions allowed for each license class.  In fact, the chart is NOT a "band plan chart" but is a visual representation of 47 CFR Part 97 Section 97.301 and 47 CFR Part 97 Section 97.305.
>
> A "band plan" is no more than a "suggested" use of various frequencies and/or frequency segments that is proposed by a group.  In fact, there are a number of different "band plans" that are actually in conflict with other "band plans".  Following a "band plan" is strictly voluntary whereas following the regulations is a legal requirement.  There is a BIG difference!
>
> The ARRL does have "band plans" for various amateur radio bands.  But, those are strictly the suggestions, by the ARRL, on how to operate on various frequencies.  There are also IARU "band plans" which differ among ITU Region I, Region II, and Region III that are, in some cases, in conflict between Region.  The are "band plans" by other organizations that differ from those proposed by the ARRL.
>  
> Glen, K9STH
>
> Website: http://k9sth.net
>
>
> On Saturday, August 30, 2014 6:17 PM, Doug - k4gkj <k4gkj at embarqmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I'm an extra, and grew up learning ham etiquette from my grandfather, although I've only been a ham a relatively short time.  I had never been exposed to satellite work, taught very little by other elders, and have found it rather difficult to find a good source that taught the various aspects. I entered this facet of the hobby via request from a local school  wanting to make contact with the ISS (scheduled for end of October). I have had a struggle gaining good Intel on getting it done right and inexpensively....
> Until jumping into this facet, I had no idea there were certain freq's I needed to avoid. And it took another few months to realize that I needed to use caution on power output! I was being told I needed a amp of up to 200 watts to talk to the ISS, but never was informed of the damage I could cause to other birds with this amp....(no, have not done so!) . And I honestly am worried about being too strong for the ISS.
> My point, these basic concepts are just not taught well enough. Many basic concepts aren't being taught or expected to be learned....  I dont know who is try so hard to make it so easy to be a ham, but it is working, and at the same time causing problems of all kinds for the rest of us...
> My apologies for not knowing these frequencies of concern.... I sincerely hope I never walked on another!
> It should be protested to have more teaching and test questions on the Tech exam to avoid this. May also help to have these freqs listed on the band plan chart?
> I feel like I am learning a whole new hobby, with a very long way to go.
>
>
>
> Doug Bennight
> K4GKJ
>
>
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Lizeth Norman <normanlizeth at gmail.com>
> Date:
> To: "&lt,amsat-bb at amsat.org&gt," <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: [amsat-bb] local yokels
>
> Hi all!
> Was monitoring the 1645z pass of AO-73. Got blown out of my chair by
> direct, in the passband interference on 145.95. Looked like FM. Sure
> enough, two of the good old boys have a local simplex channel.
> Did send one (the other doesn't have an email on QRZ, go figure!!!) an
> email explaining that their conversation could have been retransmitted
> all over north America, had FO-29 or AO-7 mode A been overhead.
> Is there any regulatory body to report this type of stuff to?
> There is enough RF trash being transmitted by xboxes and the like.
> Don't need more.
> Norm n3ykf
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Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
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Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

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