[amsat-bb] 2018 Corrected AMSAT Board of Directors Ballots

Wed Jul 18 17:10:07 UTC 2018

Paul hits on a real issue-making sure that folks have a chance to vote,
regardless of media type.

As mentioned already in this thread, and from my perspective as a Board
member now up for election renewal--rest assured that a well researched
written proposal for something like moving to electronic voting would be
given a good fair and full review by the Board and Officers.  There are
many points being brought up in this thread right now--but suggesting a
change that requires a change to the by-laws of an organization should
obviously be well researched and reviewed.   It'll take a good amount of
time and thought, certainly worth doing for something so important to an
organization.

73,

Mark N8MH

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 12:54 PM, Paul Stoetzer <n8hm at arrl.net> wrote:

> Remember that we have life members dating to the early 1970s. We don't
> have email addresses for all of our members in order to do something
> like that.
>
> 73,
>
> Paul, N8HM
>
> On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM, Eric Fort
> <eric.fort.listmail at fortconsulting.org> wrote:
> > Perhaps there is a happy medium here. How about emailing the ballot as a
> pdf to each member. If necessary each pdf could be encoded slightly
> different (possibly serialized) for each member. It is then up to the
> member to print and mail the return ballot. If one wanted to squabble over
> postage that can be printed as well. The key to this is that the info that
> identifies the unique ballot is not linked in any way to the member it was
> sent to but the member can verify from the serial number that is known only
> to them that the ballot was received and counted.
> >
> > Eric
> > Af6ep
> >
> > Sent using SMTP.
> >
> >> On Jul 18, 2018, at 7:53 AM, Gabriel Zeifman <gabrielzeifman at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Does AMSAT maintain a printing press and envelope factory to produce
> the current mailings? I think the solution is called "contracting" and I am
> aware that there are companies that offer such services at a reasonable
> cost.
> >>
> >> 73,
> >> Gabe
> >> AL6D/VE6NJH
> >>
> >>> On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 4:53 AM E.Mike McCardel <mccardelm at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>> What would the upfront cost of setting up electronic voting? It seems
> to me that it would be analogous to Solar electricity. Higher end, up front
> cost verses “free” power down the road.
> >>> If you are advocating the change are you willing to invest your own
> time energy and perhaps $$$ to reduce the cost to AMSAT? After all can a
> cash strapped organization afford $10k or higher solution right now, even
> for lower cost in the future?
> >>> Regardless this will not be an overnight solution. Like building a
> satellite it will require planning and deadlines and engineering, both
> software and social.
> >>> I personally like the idea on online voting. I also like the idea of
> electronic delivery of the Journal, but we have found even that is a bit
> more complicated and costly than one might think.
> >>>
> >>> 73
> >>> EMike
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> EMike McCardel, AA8EM
> >>> Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>> > On Jul 18, 2018, at 1:11 AM, Devin L. Ganger <devin at thecabal.org>
> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > Concur with AF6EP. Doing electronic ballots is inexpensive. Doing
> them *correctly* is not.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > --
> >>> > Devin L. Ganger (WA7DLG)
> >>> > email: devin at thecabal.org
> >>> > web: Devin on Earth
> >>> > cell: +1 425.239.2575
> >>> >
> >>> >> -----Original Message-----
> >>> >> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Eric Fort
> >>> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 9:55 PM
> >>> >> To: Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a at gmail.com>
> >>> >> Cc: Clayton Coleman W5PFG <tasmac at w5pfg.us>; AMSAT Mailing List
> >>> >> <amsat-bb at amsat.org>; Gabriel Zeifman <gabrielzeifman at gmail.com>
> >>> >> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] 2018 Corrected AMSAT Board of Directors
> Ballots
> >>> >>
> >>> >> The basic problem with electronic voting is proving who is behind
> the
> >>> >> keyboard and tracing the data with integrity such that each voter
> only casts
> >>> >> one ballot. With paper ballots this is possible. What is done is
> the paper ballot
> >>> >> is placed in an envelope that is signed by the voter. The signature
> and
> >>> >> registration info can then be compared on receipt, verifying that
> one and
> >>> >> only one ballot was cast by that specific voter. The ballot is then
> separated
> >>> >> from the envelope to be counted assuring the anonymity of the
> voter. In the
> >>> >> digital realm one can not have anonymity, traceability, and
> verifiablity
> >>> >> simultaneously. These are mathematically proven therems and entire
> papers
> >>> >> and PhD thesis’s have been written on this topic proving this exact
> thing. Do
> >>> >> the research.  Paper verified ballots really are the only way.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Eric
> >>> >> Af6ep
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Sent using SMTP.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>> On Jul 17, 2018, at 6:42 PM, Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more,
> secure as
> >>> >> your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to
> print
> >>> >> with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some
> options to a
> >>> >> voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more
> convenient, you can
> >>> >> pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like LOTW
> for
> >>> >> QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people
> “hacking” the
> >>> >> elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> 73,
> >>> >>> Mike Diehl
> >>> >>> W8LID
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>> On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort <eric.fort.listmail@
> fortconsulting.org>
> >>> >> wrote:
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to
> “hack the
> >>> >> vote”.   It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught
> prior to
> >>> >> printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer.
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> Eric
> >>> >>>> Af6ep
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> Sent using SMTP.
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>>> On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman
> >>> >> <gabrielzeifman at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>>>> How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented
> >>> >>>>> organization is having to waste so much money to print and mail
> two
> >>> >>>>> sets of paper ballots to each and every member. Seems to me that
> >>> >>>>> electronic voting would save the organization money, make voting
> >>> >>>>> more secure and efficient, prevent mishaps such as this, and
> prevent
> >>> >>>>> some members from not receiving ballots like last year.
> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>>>> 73,
> >>> >>>>> Gabe
> >>> >>>>> AL6D/VE6NJH
> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG
> >>> >> <tasmac at w5pfg.us> wrote:
> >>> >>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>> Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to
> >>> >>>>>> AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on
> July
> >>> >>>>>> 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots
> >>> >>>>>> received at the AMSAT-NA office will not be counted.
> >>> >>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>> New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on
> >>> >>>>>> yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members.
> >>> >>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>> Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates:
> >>> >>>>>> Tom Clark, K3IO
> >>> >>>>>> Mark Hammond, N8MH
> >>> >>>>>> Scott Harvey, KA7FVV
> >>> >>>>>> Bruce Paige, KK5DO
> >>> >>>>>> Peter Portanova, W2JV
> >>> >>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>> The Directors positions will go to the three candidates
> receiving
> >>> >>>>>> the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two
> >>> >>>>>> alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of
> >>> >> votes received.
> >>> >>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>> 73,
> >>> >>>>>> Clayton
> >>> >>>>>> W5PFG
> >>> >>>>>> AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary
> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>> >>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> >>> >>>>>> available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
> >>> >>>>>> membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author,
> and
> >>> >>>>>> do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> >>> >>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
> satellite
> >>> >> program!
> >>> >>>>>> Subscription settings:
> >>> >>>>>> http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>> >>>>>>
> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> >>>>> available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
> >>> >>>>> membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author,
> and do
> >>> >> not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> >>> >>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >>> >> program!
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> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>> >>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> >>> >> available
> >>> >>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >>> >>>> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not
> reflect the
> >>> >> official views of AMSAT-NA.
> >>> >>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >>> >> program!
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> listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>> >>
> >>> >> _______________________________________________
> >>> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> >>> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> >>> >> expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
> official views
> >>> >> of AMSAT-NA.
> >>> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >>> >> program!
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> listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> >>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> >>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of AMSAT-NA.
> >>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
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> listinfo/amsat-bb
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
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> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

-- 
Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]