From propgrinder at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 00:17:28 2020
From: propgrinder at gmail.com (Bob Hammond)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 17:17:28 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] GS-232B Advice?
In-Reply-To: <E69AC2B2-3A42-4561-8CA1-8E1452F27296@comcast.net>
References: <CANPmdb0dHY==tSxeUf5NBCURSarh+MqMgogmW-5c1OrKiWYtnA@mail.gmail.com>
	<E69AC2B2-3A42-4561-8CA1-8E1452F27296@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAKoB7Or=Gxnsm6sowrbmYi4uL8WyPFJ_92QONGGyMNVPbs2EeQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have the FoxDelta ST2 and am quite satisfied with it.

Bob W7OTJ

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 11:43 AM Ed Krome via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> LVB  Tracker kit from AMSAT-UK or FoxDelta ST2. Both work great.
>
> Ed Krome K9EK
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 31, 2020, at 2:13 PM, Chris Hoffman via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > ?Happy Birthday to me: I now own a G-5500 and it's controller! Now... I
> need
> > the computer interface.
> >
> > As opposed to paying the $ for an authentic GS-232B, I see the following
> > item come up a lot in my EBay feed, and I'm left to wonder if it is worth
> > trying:
> >
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rotator-Control-Interface-Board-with-Cable-USB-232B-for-YAESU-G-800-1000-2800DXA/124009089208?hash=item1cdf8488b8:g:a0YAAOSw-c9d8wtl
> >
> > That, or I spring for a Green Heron, right?
> >
> > What do you think? What other options should I consider?
> >
> > /ch
> > N6QR
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  1 01:34:35 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 18:34:35 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] GS-232B Advice?
In-Reply-To: <CAKoB7Or=Gxnsm6sowrbmYi4uL8WyPFJ_92QONGGyMNVPbs2EeQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANPmdb0dHY==tSxeUf5NBCURSarh+MqMgogmW-5c1OrKiWYtnA@mail.gmail.com>
	<E69AC2B2-3A42-4561-8CA1-8E1452F27296@comcast.net>
	<CAKoB7Or=Gxnsm6sowrbmYi4uL8WyPFJ_92QONGGyMNVPbs2EeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9a2b1a66-18af-48de-a374-f3bb1d3c2ae0@yahoo.com>

I am happy with the LVB Tracker which is unfortunately NLA. I believe that unit is a clone.

Should work fine.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 31, 2020, 17:20, at 17:20, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>I have the FoxDelta ST2 and am quite satisfied with it.
>
>Bob W7OTJ
>
>On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 11:43 AM Ed Krome via AMSAT-BB
><amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>wrote:
>
>> LVB  Tracker kit from AMSAT-UK or FoxDelta ST2. Both work great.
>>
>> Ed Krome K9EK
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Jul 31, 2020, at 2:13 PM, Chris Hoffman via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > ?Happy Birthday to me: I now own a G-5500 and it's controller!
>Now... I
>> need
>> > the computer interface.
>> >
>> > As opposed to paying the $ for an authentic GS-232B, I see the
>following
>> > item come up a lot in my EBay feed, and I'm left to wonder if it is
>worth
>> > trying:
>> >
>>
>https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rotator-Control-Interface-Board-with-Cable-USB-232B-for-YAESU-G-800-1000-2800DXA/124009089208?hash=item1cdf8488b8:g:a0YAAOSw-c9d8wtl
>> >
>> > That, or I spring for a Green Heron, right?
>> >
>> > What do you think? What other options should I consider?
>> >
>> > /ch
>> > N6QR
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > Subscription settings:
>https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>> Subscription settings:
>https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From wandtosborne at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 04:42:32 2020
From: wandtosborne at gmail.com (Wendy and Terry Osborne)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 16:42:32 +1200
Subject: [amsat-bb] Rocket Lab Launch failure issue identified
Message-ID: <fa7314c0-61ac-8ee5-dc6f-9ec3600a3a91@gmail.com>

They have found the problem and should resuming flights soon.
See: 
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122318727/one-faulty-connection-caused-rocket-labs-first-us75m-mission-failure

73,
Terry Osborne ZL2BAC

From peter at magicbug.co.uk  Sat Aug  1 10:43:27 2020
From: peter at magicbug.co.uk (Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL))
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 11:43:27 +0100
Subject: [amsat-bb] GS-232B Advice?
In-Reply-To: <CANPmdb0dHY==tSxeUf5NBCURSarh+MqMgogmW-5c1OrKiWYtnA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANPmdb0dHY==tSxeUf5NBCURSarh+MqMgogmW-5c1OrKiWYtnA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFvUairk-trKoAATu6cpq4Cz3E8wd2D4RLcSFSjzv2ma-G=g3Q@mail.gmail.com>

Chris,

There's a few options

- LVB Tracker that you can still get on AMSAT-UKs shop
- Foxdelta ST2 lvb clone
- ERC-M
- EA4TX ars

There's many others including homebrew, and some very expensive commercial
units.

I'd suggest one of those four, I'm currently using the ERC-M with good
success.

Peter, 2M0SQL

On Fri, 31 Jul 2020, 19:05 Chris Hoffman via AMSAT-BB, <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Happy Birthday to me: I now own a G-5500 and it's controller! Now... I need
> the computer interface.
>
> As opposed to paying the $ for an authentic GS-232B, I see the following
> item come up a lot in my EBay feed, and I'm left to wonder if it is worth
> trying:
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rotator-Control-Interface-Board-with-Cable-USB-232B-for-YAESU-G-800-1000-2800DXA/124009089208?hash=item1cdf8488b8:g:a0YAAOSw-c9d8wtl
>
> That, or I spring for a Green Heron, right?
>
> What do you think? What other options should I consider?
>
> /ch
> N6QR
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From w5rkn at w5rkn.com  Sat Aug  1 17:34:57 2020
From: w5rkn at w5rkn.com (Ronald Parsons)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 12:34:57 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] VUCC Awards-Endorsements for August 2020
Message-ID: <CAJst_RS_-JUh83xnx_k4R-ryHpBfvyUjkeB8_fZBWn26NEJ25A@mail.gmail.com>

Here are the endorsements and new VUCC Satellite Awards issued by the
ARRL for the period July 1, 2020 through August 1, 2020.
Congratulations to all those who made the list this month!

WOW! Long list this month!

CALL    July    August

W7QL    478     510
WI4T    301     461
N7EGY   405     456
PS8ET   350     434
AF5CC   New     425
N9FN    303     403
HP2VX   351     377
WB7VUF  319     370
KC9UQR  301     332
W4ZXT   252     327
WA9JBQ  326     326
W4DTA   263     275
AK7DD   New     255
N1PEB * 138     255
K4RGK   175     214
VE6WK   New     207
S57NML  179     205
AC9O    108     204
YV1DIG  146     200
AA4FL   181     187
N3CAL   160     171
WD9EWK (DM23)   137     152
N7AME   128     148
WB7QXU  New     140
K3HPA   102     128
VE2NGO  100     128
HB9WDF  New     114
N5EKO   102     108
KP4RV   100     105
XE1R    New     105
KB9STR  New     104
N2ZN    New     103
IK1IYU  New     101
KF6JOQ  New     101
N5MIG   New     101
LU3FCA  New     100
M0KDS   New     100
N6RVI   New     100

" For some reason, this call dropped off the list from February to now.

If you find errors or omissions. please contact me off-list at
<mycall>@<mycall>.com and I'll revise the announcement.
This list was developed by comparing the ARRL .pdf listings
for the two months. It's a visual comparison so omissions
are possible. Apologies if your call was not mentioned.
Thanks to all those who are roving to grids that are rarely
on the birds. They are doing most of the work!

Ron W5RKN

From ik5nax at radioteknos.it  Sat Aug  1 20:38:17 2020
From: ik5nax at radioteknos.it (Lapo Pieri)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 22:38:17 +0200
Subject: [amsat-bb] A wide band lindenblad
Message-ID: <20200801203817.GA8499@debian>

Hi,
I?ve just developed a wide band lindenblad antenna based on a
previous project of mine, yoctenna and yefa, the new one is here:

    http://www.radioteknos.it/yolinda-2020-07-30_en.html

Any comments, suggestions, criticism are very appreciated.

Thank you!

73, Lapo IK5NAX

From rjlawn at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 21:34:19 2020
From: rjlawn at gmail.com (Richard Lawn)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 17:34:19 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] K3 with SatPC32
Message-ID: <CADQmrTF7EbzViHopxHCA_g5qWvzwxyLZASHP42whOWSpjUk=pQ@mail.gmail.com>

Has anyone used this radio with a transverter in combination with SatPC32?
I know it works with the KX3 but I can't get SatPC32 to see my K3. The
problem is that my Ft-847 2 meter output is very low suggesting the finale
may be shot. Rather than sending it out for repair I thought I'd try 2
radios - with the K3/transverter combination always handling 2 meter
uplink. I guess not unless somebody has a suggestion.

73
Rick, W2JAZ

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  1 22:40:53 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2020 15:40:53 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] A wide band lindenblad
In-Reply-To: <20200801203817.GA8499@debian>
References: <20200801203817.GA8499@debian>
Message-ID: <34cb3ff6-b9de-46e0-8f0b-bed60892fb80@yahoo.com>

Lapo,

What a great project & excellent write-up. Thank you.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Aug 1, 2020, 13:45, at 13:45, Lapo Pieri via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>Hi,
>I?ve just developed a wide band lindenblad antenna based on a
>previous project of mine, yoctenna and yefa, the new one is here:
>
>    http://www.radioteknos.it/yolinda-2020-07-30_en.html
>
>Any comments, suggestions, criticism are very appreciated.
>
>Thank you!
>
>73, Lapo IK5NAX
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From tjschuessler at verizon.net  Sat Aug  1 22:50:09 2020
From: tjschuessler at verizon.net (tjschuessler at verizon.net)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 17:50:09 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] QSO Today Virtual Ham Expo satellite presentation.
References: <00f201d66856$1bd4dee0$537e9ca0$.ref@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <00f201d66856$1bd4dee0$537e9ca0$@verizon.net>

Hi all,

I was able to slip under the wire and obtain what turns out to be the very
last presenter slot for the upcoming QSO Today Virtual Ham Expo event this
coming weekend, August 8 and 9, https://www.qsotodayhamexpo.com/ .  I will
be doing a "Getting Started with Amateur Radio Satellites presentation which
is scheduled at the conclusion of the second day of the event, starting at
2245Z on Sunday August 9th.  The first half of the hour will be a
pre-recorded and edited talk I submitted to them for playback at that time,
followed by a live Q and A session for those attending real time.  My
recorded piece also includes a tour of my portable setup as well as part of
a contact on RS-44.  The event organizers will then archive  that
presentation and Q and A, along with the others for the weekend for
on-demand streaming over the next month.  I also get to have a virtual
"Table" with downloads that can be grabbed and viewed at a later time, just
like a real information table.

I only had about a day to put together the edited 30 minutes and felt like I
had to rush through things and definately know I forgot items and concepts
that I hope to be able to bring up during the Q and A.  I hope though that
it will be enough to grab the interest of the hearers.

The event organizers have come up with a cool way to spur ongoing interest
in participating in as much of the event activities as possible, by giving
points for every activity viewed.  These points act as virtual tickets in a
prize drum and can accumulate for the month following the live Expo.  The
more activities one takes in, the more tickets, and thus, the more chances
to win a cool selection of prizes.

If you know someone who is interested in learning more about our fascinating
niche of the amateur radio hobby, please do send them to the event and point
out the presentation time on August 9, or the post event archives.

I think they are planning on doing this again next March and I do hope to
have an improved video presentation by then.

73 and hope to see you, virtually at least.

Tom Schuessler, N5HYP
EM12ms




From gary_mayfield at hotmail.com  Sun Aug  2 00:50:10 2020
From: gary_mayfield at hotmail.com (Gary)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2020 00:50:10 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Dragon Capsule Return from ISS
Message-ID: <CH2PR13MB3864F92E4579E3334E6157018A4C0@CH2PR13MB3864.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

My Google skills are not that great. Does anyone have visual tracking information for the Dragon as it returns from ISS?

73,
Gary "Joe" kk0sd

From bernd1peters at gmail.com  Sun Aug  2 01:09:05 2020
From: bernd1peters at gmail.com (bernd1peters at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 18:09:05 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Dragon Capsule Return from ISS
In-Reply-To: <CH2PR13MB3864F92E4579E3334E6157018A4C0@CH2PR13MB3864.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CH2PR13MB3864F92E4579E3334E6157018A4C0@CH2PR13MB3864.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <208e01d66869$84bd6db0$8e384910$@gmail.com>

Nasa live stream on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13OkD0C_TWU

73,
Bernd - KB7AK

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Gary via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 5:50 PM
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Dragon Capsule Return from ISS

My Google skills are not that great. Does anyone have visual tracking
information for the Dragon as it returns from ISS?

73,
Gary "Joe" kk0sd
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all
interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From gary_mayfield at hotmail.com  Sun Aug  2 01:12:43 2020
From: gary_mayfield at hotmail.com (Gary)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2020 01:12:43 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Dragon Capsule Return from ISS
In-Reply-To: <208e01d66869$84bd6db0$8e384910$@gmail.com>
References: <CH2PR13MB3864F92E4579E3334E6157018A4C0@CH2PR13MB3864.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
	<208e01d66869$84bd6db0$8e384910$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CH2PR13MB38644160C4359A09F35386668A4C0@CH2PR13MB3864.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

Cool - Thanks!

I was hoping to step out and see it from my yard tonight. Like I was able to when they were chasing the ISS.

73,
Gary "Joe" kk0sd

-----Original Message-----
From: bernd1peters at gmail.com <bernd1peters at gmail.com> 
Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 8:09 PM
To: 'Gary' <gary_mayfield at hotmail.com>
Cc: AMSAT-BB at amsat.org
Subject: RE: [amsat-bb] Dragon Capsule Return from ISS

Nasa live stream on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13OkD0C_TWU

73,
Bernd - KB7AK

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Gary via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 5:50 PM
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Dragon Capsule Return from ISS

My Google skills are not that great. Does anyone have visual tracking information for the Dragon as it returns from ISS?

73,
Gary "Joe" kk0sd
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From charlieray at gmail.com  Sun Aug  2 02:03:06 2020
From: charlieray at gmail.com (Charles Reiche)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 22:03:06 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Dragon Capsule Return from ISS
In-Reply-To: <CH2PR13MB38644160C4359A09F35386668A4C0@CH2PR13MB3864.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CH2PR13MB3864F92E4579E3334E6157018A4C0@CH2PR13MB3864.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
	<208e01d66869$84bd6db0$8e384910$@gmail.com>
	<CH2PR13MB38644160C4359A09F35386668A4C0@CH2PR13MB3864.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAMkCmDodS1uSvHvouCg+uR_B_UUmncB7pL5bRux4gQJJSmoFNw@mail.gmail.com>

If you live east of say colorado, Go outside and look around 0210z (in
about 10 minutes) this is the track now---->
https://i.imgur.com/EigUqte.png

73
N3CRT
Charles Reiche


On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 9:15 PM Gary via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Cool - Thanks!
>
> I was hoping to step out and see it from my yard tonight. Like I was able
> to when they were chasing the ISS.
>
> 73,
> Gary "Joe" kk0sd
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bernd1peters at gmail.com <bernd1peters at gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 8:09 PM
> To: 'Gary' <gary_mayfield at hotmail.com>
> Cc: AMSAT-BB at amsat.org
> Subject: RE: [amsat-bb] Dragon Capsule Return from ISS
>
> Nasa live stream on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13OkD0C_TWU
>
> 73,
> Bernd - KB7AK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Gary via AMSAT-BB
> Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 5:50 PM
> To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Dragon Capsule Return from ISS
>
> My Google skills are not that great. Does anyone have visual tracking
> information for the Dragon as it returns from ISS?
>
> 73,
> Gary "Joe" kk0sd
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to
> all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From k0jm.mark at gmail.com  Sun Aug  2 00:01:00 2020
From: k0jm.mark at gmail.com (Mark Johns, K0JM)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 19:01:00 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] ANS-215 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletins
Message-ID: <CADDbS5BK2Jj054yn1AHqs891ZLYvCNcbreF1VdSVU3FMHrZqrw@mail.gmail.com>

AMSAT NEWS SERVICE
ANS-215

The AMSAT News Service bulletins are a free, weekly news and infor-
mation service of AMSAT, The Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation. ANS
publishes news related to Amateur Radio in Space including reports on
the activities of a worldwide group of Amateur Radio operators who
share an active interest in designing, building, launching and commun-
icating through analog and digital Amateur Radio satellites.

The news feed on http://www.amsat.org publishes news of Amateur
Radio in Space as soon as our volunteers can post it.

Please send any amateur satellite news or reports to:
ans-editor at amsat.org

You can sign up for free e-mail delivery of the AMSAT News Service
Bulletins via the ANS List; to join this list see:
http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/ans

In this edition:

* ISS MAI-75 SSTV Activity Planned For Aug 4-5
* AMSAT Awards Update
* How Many Satellite Awards Have Been Issued?
* VUCC Awards-Endorsements for August 2020
* First Demonstration Of Orbit Control On A 1U CubeSat
* Burns Fisher, WB1JF, Featured Speaker at AMSAT SA Symposium
* NASA to Provide Coverage of Astronauts' Return from ISS on SpaceX
* ARISS News
* Upcoming Satellite Operations
* Hamfests, Conventions, Maker Faires, and Other Events
* Satellite Shorts From All Over


SB SAT @ AMSAT $ANS-215.01
ANS-215 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletins

AMSAT News Service Bulletin 215.01
>From AMSAT HQ KENSINGTON, MD.
DATE 2020 August 02
To All RADIO AMATEURS
BID: $ANS-215.01


ISS MAI-75 SSTV Activity Planned For Aug 4-5

Russian cosmonauts will transmit amateur radio Slow Scan Television
(SSTV) images from the International Space Station (ISS) during August
4-5 on 145.800 MHz FM (likely using PD-120).

On July 9, ESA Education had Tweeted: ?We are expecting the ISS to
transmit pictures in the next weeks for the 45th anniversary of the
Apollo-Soyuz test project. This is a perfect opportunity to try this
activity for yourself!?
https://twitter.com/ESA__Education/status/1281140713237946370

Apollo?Soyuz was the first international space mission, carried out
jointly by the United States and the Soviet Union in mid-July 1975.

An announcement made July 27 on the ARISS SSTV Blog says: The final
crew schedule for the week of Aug 3-9 was released recently and it
showed a MAI-75 activity scheduled for Aug 4 and 5. This is soon after
the Space X Demo-2 undock so changes to that event could impact the
schedule.

The current dates and times of the planned activity are as follows:
Aug 4 (12:25-18:10 UTC) is setup and day 1 operations.
Aug 5 (11:15-18:45 UTC) is day 2 operations and close out.

This is the Moscow Aviation Institute SSTV experiment that is active
for orbital passes over Moscow, Russia. It has traditional been PD-180
or PD-120 and transmitting on 145.800 MHz.

Source ARISS STV Blog http://ariss-sstv.blogspot.com/

The ISS puts out a strong signal on 145.800 MHz FM and a 2m handheld
with a 1/4 wave antenna will be enough to receive it. Many FM mobile
and base station rigs can be switched been wide and narrow deviation
FM filters. For best results you should select the filter for wider
deviation FM (25 kHz channel spacing). Handhelds all seem to have a
single wide filter fitted as standard.

The space agency ESA has released a video ?How to get pictures from the
International Space Station via Amateur Radio? along with a collection
of Tutorial videos explaining how to receive ISS Slow Scan TV (SSTV)
pictures for different computers and mobile devices
https://amsat-uk.org/2020/07/08/esa-promote-amateur-radio-iss-sstv/

Read the Raspberry Pi article Pictures from space via ham radio
https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi/pictures-from-space-via-ham-radio/

ISS SSTV info and links https://amsat-uk.org/beginners/iss-sstv/

[ANS thanks AMSAT-UK for the above information]

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         Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, the AMSAT office
    is closed until further notice. For details, please visit
  https://www.amsat.org/amsat-office-closed-until-further-notice/

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AMSAT Awards Update

Here are the awards issued in the last two months.

The AMSAT Satellite Communicators Award is given to any operator for
having made their first contact:

Anthony Rizi, NR1Z
Edward Hartzel, W3HMK
James Brooks, KB3EFH
Vilanova University ARC, W3YP
Robin Shelley, G8VVY

------

The Oscar Satellite Communications Achievement Award is for working 20
contacts on any satellite:

Anthony Rizi, NR1Z, #628
Angus Alexander, KJ7KOJ, #629

------

The AMSAT Sexagesimal Satellite Communications Achievement Award is
given for 60 satellite contacts:

Stephan Greene, KS1G, #187
Casey Tucker, KI7UNJ, #188

------

The AMSAT South Africa Satellite Communications Achievement Award is
for 25 different stations on Phase 2 (LEO) satellites:

Anthony Rizi, NR1Z, #US230
Casey Tucker, KI7UNJ, #US231
Angus Alexander, KJ7KOJ, #US232

------

The Robert W. Barbee Jr., W4AMI Satellite Operator Achievement Award
is awarded for the submission of 1,000 satellite contacts on OSCAR-6
or later satellites:

W4AMI Award (1,000-4,000)

Mitchell Whitman, N4DCW, #110
Mark Johns, K0JM, #111
David Hoffman, KL1XI, #112
Phillip Sauvey, AK7DD, #113
Dennis Love, N7EGY, #114
Kell Bodholt, KI7UXT, upgrade to 2000


------

AMSAT Rover Award is based on a point system and is awarded to those
who put grids on the air away from their home QTH:

Rover         Call
=====         ========
#054          N0TEL
#055          AK7DD
#056          KE0WPA


------

GridMaster Award is presented to those who confirm QSOs with all 488
grids in the Continental U.S.:


GridMaster         Call
==========         ========
#11                KO4MA
#12                N4UFO
#13                W5CBF

To see all the awards visit http://www.amsat.org and click on
Services then Awards.

[ANS thanks Bruce Paige, KK5DO, AMSAT Director Contests and Awards for
the above information]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

How Many Satellite Awards Have Been Issued?

When Bruce Paige, KK5DO, AMSAT Director Contests and Awards, was asked
by a ham last week how many awards he has issued, his response was,
"You know, I really had no idea." Paige took over doing the AMSAT
awards in May, 2001. Most of the awards have computer records. However,
the Satellite Communicator Club award, he did not start keeping track
of until 2003.

So, you ask, how many awards has he issued? Paige says,
"Satellite Communicator    407+  but my records only go back to 2003
South Africa Satellite Communication Achievement   167
AMSAT Satellite Communication Achievement          273
Sexagesimal  (60 QSOs)                              64
Century      (100 QSOs)                             24
W4AMI         (1,000 QSOs)                          81
W4AMI endorsements  (each additional 1,000 QSOs)    66
W4AMI 5000   (5,000 QSOs)                           25
Rover                                               55
GridMaster                                          13

and if I added correctly, it comes out to 1,165 plus whatever Satellite
Communicator awards were issued in 2001 and 2002. That's a lot of
certificate paper, a lot of ink and a bunch of envelopes and stiffeners
to get them safely to their owners."

Do you have one on your wall? If not, maybe you should submit for one
or more so that one day I will hit 2,000 or 3,000 who knows. Visit the
awards page at https://www.amsat.org/awards-2/

[ANS thanks Bruce Paige, KK5DO, AMSAT Director Contests and Awards for
the above information]


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     Need new satellite antennas? Purchase Arrows, Alaskan Arrows,
    and M2 LEO-Packs from the AMSAT Store. When you purchase through
           AMSAT, a portion of the proceeds goes towards
                  Keeping Amateur Radio in Space.
           https://amsat.org/product-category/hardware/

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VUCC Awards-Endorsements for August 2020

Here are the endorsements and new VUCC Satellite Awards issued by the
ARRL for the period July 1, 2020 through August 1, 2020.
Congratulations to all those who made the list this month!

WOW! Long list this month!

CALL    July    August

W7QL    478     510
WI4T    301     461
N7EGY   405     456
PS8ET   350     434
AF5CC   New     425
N9FN    303     403
HP2VX   351     377
WB7VUF  319     370
KC9UQR  301     332
W4ZXT   252     327
WA9JBQ  326     326
W4DTA   263     275
AK7DD   New     255
N1PEB * 138     255
K4RGK   175     214
VE6WK   New     207
S57NML  179     205
AC9O    108     204
YV1DIG  146     200
AA4FL   181     187
N3CAL   160     171
WD9EWK (DM23)   137     152
N7AME   128     148
WB7QXU  New     140
K3HPA   102     128
VE2NGO  100     128
HB9WDF  New     114
N5EKO   102     108
KP4RV   100     105
XE1R    New     105
KB9STR  New     104
N2ZN    New     103
IK1IYU  New     101
KF6JOQ  New     101
N5MIG   New     101
LU3FCA  New     100
M0KDS   New     100
N6RVI   New     100

* For some reason, this call dropped off the list from February to now.

If you find errors or omissions. please contact me off-list at W5RKN
at W5RKN dot com. This list was developed by comparing the ARRL .pdf
listings for the two months. It's a visual comparison so omissions
are possible. Apologies if your call was not mentioned.

Thanks to all those who are roving to grids that are rarely
on the birds. They are doing most of the work!

[ANS thanks Ron Parsons, W5RKN, for the above information]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

First Demonstration Of Orbit Control On A 1U CubeSat

The University Wuerzburg Experimental Satellite 4 (UWE-4) successfully
used its propulsion system in order to conduct orbit control. The 1U
CubeSat, developed and built at the Chair for Robotics and Telematics,
is equipped with the electric propulsion system NanoFEEP which has been
developed by TU Dresden.

Several manoeuvres have been performed within 11 days between June 23
and July 3, 2020 such that the altitude of the CubeSat was reduced by
more than 100 meters, compared to an average of 21 meters with natural
decay. This marks the first time in CubeSat history that a 1U CubeSat
changed its orbit using an on-board propulsion system.

As chance would have it, the team of UWE-4 received a conjunction data
message (CDM) in the morning of July 2, 2020 from the United States Air
Force?s 18th Space Control Squadron. A conjunction of UWE-4 with a non-
operational Iridium satellite (ID: 34147) in the morning of July 5,
2020 with a minimum range of about 800 meters was a threat to the
safety of UWE-4. An analysis has shown that the altitude of UWE-4 would
already be below the Iridium satellite at the time of conjunction. Thus
the on-going altitude lowering manoeuvre could only improve the situa-
tion and can be considered as a collision avoidance manoeuvre. No furt-
her CDMs have been issued regarding this possible conjunction. An anal-
ysis of the orbit of the two spacecraft after July 5, 2020 results in
a closest approach of more than 6000 meters.

Lowering the altitude of a spacecraft in low earth orbit (LEO) is
equivalent to a reduction of its lifetime, since satellites in LEO
usually burn up during re-entry due to the friction with the Earth?s
atmosphere. Thus, this experiment is a concept demonstration of a de-
orbiting manoeuvre shown at the smallest class of spacecraft in LEO.
Today, there is no commitment to carry a propulsion system for space-
craft. However, due to the vastly increasing number of satellites in
mega constellations such obligations are being discussed in the space
agencies of several space faring countries. The experiment of UWE-4
presents a de-orbiting solution for the fraction of space debris of
operational but unused satellites of today and for the mega constella-
tions of tomorrow.

[U.S. regulations make the ability to de-orbit a requirement for HEO
amateur satellites in the future -- Ed.]

Stay tuned for more updates on UWE-4 and the upcoming launch of NetSat,
a formation flying nano-satellite mission from the Center for Telema-
tics which is expected to be launched September 2020!

Kind regards, The UWE-4 Team

UWE-4: First NanoFEEP thruster ignition
https://amsat-uk.org/2019/03/04/uwe-4-first-nanofeep-thruster-ignition/

UWE-4 435.600 MHz
https://bit.ly/39FdrPt

[ANS thanks AMSAT-UK for the above information]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Burns Fisher, WB1JF, Featured Speaker at AMSAT SA Symposium

AMSAT of South Africa (AMSAT SA) has converted its annual Space Sympo-
sium into a live online event to take place from 08:00z to 17:00z on
Saturday 22 August with a lunch break to have your sandwiches at home.

Burns Fisher, WB1JF, IHU Software Engineer and key volunteer in the
construction of the Fox1 series of satellites, will join the symposium
from the USA with two presentations. In one of his papers Burns will
present a small, easy-to-deploy telemetry station called Fox-in-a-Box,
a good way for amateurs to get started in satellite telemetry collec-
tion with a modest investment.

There will be features about AMSAT OSCAR 7, the longest operating ama-
teur satellite, as well as about SATNOGs and how to track and decode
thousands of small satellites in orbit with simple hardware/software
requiring minimal outlay. Dr. Hannes Coetzee, ZS6BZP, and his team will
present the latest developments in the AfriCUBE project.

To book, visit www.amsatsa.org.za. Members of the SARL or AMSATSA and
may register before 15 August for a cost of only R30. Non-members may
register prior to this date for a cost of R100 (approximately $6 U.S.)
but the AMSAT SA website only offers instructions for registration via
postal mail. Contact AMSAT SA to explore other possible options.

[ANS thanks SARL News and JoAnne Maenpaa, K9JKM, for the above informa-
tion]

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    Want to fly the colors on your own grid expedition?
            Get your AMSAT car flag and other neat stuff
                    from our Zazzle store!
        25% of the purchase price of each product goes
            towards Keeping Amateur Radio in Space
              https://www.zazzle.com/amsat_gear

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NASA to Provide Coverage of Astronauts' Return from ISS on SpaceX

NASA will provide live coverage of activities leading up to, during,
and following the return of the agency's SpaceX Demo-2 test flight with
the agency's astronauts Robert Behnken, KE5GGX, and Douglas Hurley from
the International Space Station.

The duo arrived at the orbiting laboratory on May 31, following a suc-
cessful launch on May 30 on a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket from NASA's Ken-
nedy Space Center in Florida.

NASA and SpaceX are targeting 7:34 p.m. EDT Saturday, Aug. 1, for un-
docking of the Dragon "Endeavour" spacecraft from the space station and
2:42 p.m. Sunday, Aug. 2, for splashdown, which will be the first re-
turn of a commercially built and operated American spacecraft carrying
astronauts from the space station.

Coverage on NASA TV and the agency's website will begin at 20.30z on
Aug. 1, with a short farewell ceremony on station and resume at 21.00z
with departure preparations through splashdown and recovery at one of
seven targeted water landing zones in the Atlantic Ocean or Gulf of
Mexico off the coast of Florida.

Watch at https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/#public

[ANS thanks NASA for the above information]

--------------------------------------------------------------------

ARISS NEWS

Amateurs and others around the world may listen in on contacts between
amateurs operating in schools and allowing students to interact with
astronauts and cosmonauts aboard the International Space Station. The
downlink frequency on which to listen is 145.800 MHz worldwide.

ARISS is very aware of the impact that COVID-19 is having on schools
and the public in general. As such, we may have last minute cancella-
tions or postponements of school contacts.

The most recent contact was with the American School of Rio de Janeiro,
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, Multi-point telebridge via ON4ISS on Thursday,
2020-07-30 at 16:41:42 UTC. The scheduled astronaut was Chris Cassidy,
KF5KDR. The contact was successful, and the recording may be found at
https://youtu.be/MSyfzEHYwrE

[ANS thanks Charlie Sufana, AJ9N, one of the ARISS operation team men-
tors for the above information]

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    AMSAT, along with our ARISS partners, is developing an amateur
    radio package, including two-way communication capability, to
            be carried on-board Gateway in lunar orbit.

   Support AMSAT's projects today at https://www.amsat.org/donate/

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Upcoming Satellite Operations

Quick Hits:

Do you need Hawaii? NH7WN on AO-7 Most days. Reach out for a schedule.

EN57, EN56, EN67, 8/2 ? 8/8:
N8MR, will be in EN57 from August 2nd through August 8th. He may also
activate EN56 and 67. Roving will be holiday style.

DM97/98 & EM08/09, 8/29 & 8/30:
Super Rover @AD0DX is heading out for the Kansas QSO party and N0E.
More to come.

Major Roves:

AD0HJ, is heading out again for the South Dakota Super Rove Part I
Rove Map: Grids DN74, DN75, DN84, DN85, DN94, DN95, EN04, EN05, EN14,
EN15, EN16, and EN17. July 31st through August 7th. See the Twitter
post at https://twitter.com/AD0HJ/status/1284669314637930499 to get
passes and times.
  Then as if that isn?t enough, there is more: South Dakota Super Rove
Part II Rove Map: Grids DN73, DN82, DN83, DN92, DN93, EN02, EN03, EN12,
EN24, and EN25. August 17th through August 21st.

Please submit any additions or corrections to Ke0pbr (at) gmail.com

[ANS thanks Paul Overnfor, KE0PBR, AMSAT rover page manager, for the
above information]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Hamfests, Conventions, Maker Faires, and Other Events

Want to see AMSAT in action or learn more about amateur radio in space?
AMSAT Ambassadors provide presentations, demonstrate communicating
through amateur satellites, and host information tables at club meet-
ings, hamfests, conventions, maker faires, and other events.

Due to COVID-19, many hamfest and events around the United States have
been cancelled or postponed.  While we make every effort to ensure the
information contained below is correct, there may be some that we
missed. We wish all of you safekeeping and hope to be at a hamfest
near you soon.

A copy of the AMSAT hamfest brochure is available for download from:
https://bit.ly/2ygVFmV  This color brochure is designed to be printed
double-sided and folded into a tri-fold handout.

To include your upcoming AMSAT presentation and/or demonstration,
please send an email to ambassadors (at) amsat (dot) org.


[ANS thanks Robert Bankston, KE4AL, AMSAT VP-User Services for the
above information]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Satellite Shorts From All Over

+ Technical papers are solicited for presentation at the ARRL/TAPR
  Digital Communications Conference (DCC), September 11 - 13. Due to
  the coronavirus pandemic, this year's conference will be held online.
  Papers will be published in the Conference Proceedings; authors do
  not need to participate. Submit papers by August 15 via email to Maty
  Weinberg, KB1EIB. (ANS thanks ARRL for the above information)

+ AMSAT-UK has announced the OSCAR Satellite QSO Party, aimed at en-
  couraging radio amateurs around the world to get on the air and make
  contacts via satellite during summer in the Northern Hemisphere.
  While points are given per contact, AMSAT-UK says the OSCAR Satellite
  QSO Party is not a contest. The event starts at 0000 UTC on August 1
  and continues until 2359 UTC on September 22.
  (ANS thanks AMSAT-UK for the above information)

+ W5KUB's high-altitude balloon went down around July 21 between Green-
  land and Norway after 72 days aloft and more than three trips around
  Earth. "It got stuck in the Arctic for several weeks, making loops,"
  Tom Medlin, W5KUB, said. "We are getting ready to launch W5KUB-21,
  an SBS-13 balloon with lithium polymer (LiPo) battery. Testing on
  ground is showing that we are getting 24-hour tracking. We hope to
  launch that in the next week or two."
  (ANS thanks ARRL for the above information)

+ NASA's latest rover, Perseverance, launched to Mars on July 30 carry-
  chips with 10.9 million names submitted by people all over the world.
  Anyone can sign up to send their name on a future Mars mission at
  https://mars.nasa.gov/participate/send-your-name/mars2020/
  (ANS thanks NASA for the above information)

+ Kerry Banke, N6IZW, was featured in an article published in the La
  Mesa Courier newspaper of La Mesa, Calif. on July 24. The article
  highlighted Kerry's association with ARISS, particularly his work on
  the new special power supply that converts the space station power
  to the levels that are required by ham radio equipment aboard the
  ISS. See the full story at https://lamesacourier.com/space-radio/
  (ANS thanks Clint Bradford, K6LCS, for the above information)

+ NASA and its international partners have assigned crew members for
  Crew-2, which will be the second operational SpaceX Crew Dragon
  flight to the International Space Station as part of NASA?s Commer-
  cial Crew Program. Crew-2 is targeted to launch in spring 2021. NASA
  astronauts Shane Kimbrough and Megan McArthur will serve as space-
  craft commander and pilot, respectively, for the mission. JAXA (Japan
  Aerospace Exploration Agency) astronaut Akihiko Hoshide, KE5DNI, and
  ESA (European Space Agency) astronaut Thomas Pesquet, KG5FYG, will
  join as mission specialists.
  (ANS thanks NASA for the above information)

+ The 34th Annual Small Satellite Conference, SmallSat 2020, is going
  virtual, August 1-6, 2020. Admission is free of charge at:
  https://smallsat.org/conference/registration
  (ANS thanks The Orbital Index for the above information)

+ The public disclosure copy of AMSAT's 2019 IRS filing (Form 990) has
  been posted to the AMSAT website at:
  https://www.amsat.org/audit-and-other-financial-reports/


---------------------------------------------------------------------

/EX

In addition to regular membership, AMSAT offers membership in the
President's Club. Members of the President's Club, as sustaining
donors to AMSAT Project Funds, will be eligible to receive addi-
tional benefits. Application forms are available from the AMSAT
Office.

Primary and secondary school students are eligible for membership
at one-half the standard yearly rate. Post-secondary school students
enrolled in at least half time status shall be eligible for the stu-
dent rate for a maximum of 6 post-secondary years in this status.
Contact Martha at the AMSAT Office for additional student membership
information.

73 and Remember to help keep amateur radio in space,
This week's ANS Editor, Mark D. Johns, K0JM

k0jm at amsat dot org

From johnbrier at gmail.com  Sun Aug  2 03:47:48 2020
From: johnbrier at gmail.com (John Brier)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 23:47:48 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Dragon Capsule Return from ISS
In-Reply-To: <CAMkCmDodS1uSvHvouCg+uR_B_UUmncB7pL5bRux4gQJJSmoFNw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CH2PR13MB3864F92E4579E3334E6157018A4C0@CH2PR13MB3864.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
	<208e01d66869$84bd6db0$8e384910$@gmail.com>
	<CH2PR13MB38644160C4359A09F35386668A4C0@CH2PR13MB3864.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAMkCmDodS1uSvHvouCg+uR_B_UUmncB7pL5bRux4gQJJSmoFNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALn0fKOe2A_3tPCSkR5cHzeqB0x10_RwHqWqjwSvbJ7ufuwcjg@mail.gmail.com>

I was able to capture Dragon and ISS in a long exposure, but it was
too cloudy and/or light polluted to see Dragon with my own eyes.

https://twitter.com/SpaceComms1/status/1289765551800082434

73, John Brier KG4AKV

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 10:05 PM Charles Reiche via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> If you live east of say colorado, Go outside and look around 0210z (in
> about 10 minutes) this is the track now---->
> https://i.imgur.com/EigUqte.png
>
> 73
> N3CRT
> Charles Reiche
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 9:15 PM Gary via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > Cool - Thanks!
> >
> > I was hoping to step out and see it from my yard tonight. Like I was able
> > to when they were chasing the ISS.
> >
> > 73,
> > Gary "Joe" kk0sd
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bernd1peters at gmail.com <bernd1peters at gmail.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 8:09 PM
> > To: 'Gary' <gary_mayfield at hotmail.com>
> > Cc: AMSAT-BB at amsat.org
> > Subject: RE: [amsat-bb] Dragon Capsule Return from ISS
> >
> > Nasa live stream on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13OkD0C_TWU
> >
> > 73,
> > Bernd - KB7AK
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Gary via AMSAT-BB
> > Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 5:50 PM
> > To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> > Subject: [amsat-bb] Dragon Capsule Return from ISS
> >
> > My Google skills are not that great. Does anyone have visual tracking
> > information for the Dragon as it returns from ISS?
> >
> > 73,
> > Gary "Joe" kk0sd
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to
> > all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> > expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> > views of AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From w9gb at icloud.com  Sun Aug  2 11:40:40 2020
From: w9gb at icloud.com (Gregory Beat)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2020 06:40:40 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Dragon Capsule Return from ISS
Message-ID: <267016AF-FBCB-46CE-8E0F-2B6FAD0CF243@icloud.com>

Cloudy skies over Midwest last night (Saturday) obstructed my chance to view.
?
The SpaceX ?Endeavour? capsule re-entry track will be from SW to the NE.
So it will not overfly the USA on re-entry path.

Stormy weather (outside wind & wave parameters) at the planned splashdown sites in the Gulf of Mexico, could complicate the return schedule. 
NASA and SpaceX are planning on a water landing off the coast of Pensacola, Florida, on Sunday while continuing to monitor any weather impact from Hurricane Isaias. 

NASA TV Coverage
https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/#public

NASA has the following coverage schedule for the major milestones for Endeavour?s return on Sunday, August 2 .  NASA News Conference will be on NASA TV.

	Splashdown in the Gulf of Mexico targeted for 2:48 p.m. ET / 11:48 a.m. PT. 

	Post-splashdown news conference set for 4:30 p.m. ET / 1:30 p.m. PT.

w9gb
==
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2020 01:12:43 +0000
From: Gary <gary_mayfield at hotmail.com>
To: "bernd1peters at gmail.com"
Cc: "AMSAT-BB at amsat.org"
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Dragon Capsule Return from ISS

I was hoping to step out and see it from my yard tonight. Like I was able to when they were chasing the ISS.

73,
Gary "Joe" kk0sd

From w9gb at icloud.com  Sun Aug  2 12:23:39 2020
From: w9gb at icloud.com (Gregory Beat)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2020 07:23:39 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Dragon Capsule Return from ISS
In-Reply-To: <267016AF-FBCB-46CE-8E0F-2B6FAD0CF243@icloud.com>
References: <267016AF-FBCB-46CE-8E0F-2B6FAD0CF243@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <033C227B-EE35-4C1B-8931-D509B66C4485@icloud.com>

Six (6) hours before the Dragon Endeavour planned Splashdown, NASA and SpaceX will hold one final joint meeting to reaffirm the Prime Landing Site (Pensacola).  Outcome will be reported on NASA TV.

Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has already posted the ?Notice to Airmen? (NOTAM) for Pensacola, FL 
https://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_0_7073.html

and Panama City, FL.
https://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_0_7071.html

w9gb
chicago

> ==
> Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2020 01:12:43 +0000
> From: Gary <gary_mayfield at hotmail.com>
> To: "bernd1peters at gmail.com"
> Cc: "AMSAT-BB at amsat.org"
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Dragon Capsule Return from ISS
> 
> I was hoping to step out and see it from my yard tonight. Like I was able to when they were chasing the ISS.
> 
> 73,
> Gary "Joe" kk0sd

From pinoleronica at hotmail.com  Sun Aug  2 15:38:13 2020
From: pinoleronica at hotmail.com (Rafael Pena)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2020 15:38:13 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Computer Interface
In-Reply-To: <mailman.10066.1596330765.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.10066.1596330765.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <DM5PR03MB32283D6F342A665F2B48E123C64C0@DM5PR03MB3228.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Easy Rotor Control (ERC)

https://www.schmidt-alba.de/eshop/index.php?cPath=1

I have been using the ERC VERSION 4 SMD, USB sold by Vibroplex in USA.   Building the kit is a fun project.   My Leo Pack / G-5500 combo is so happy with it.   

Excellent customer support.   I endorse it.

Rafael / NN3RP

> On Jul 31, 2020, at 2:13 PM, Chris Hoffman via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> ?Happy Birthday to me: I now own a G-5500 and it's controller! Now... I need
> the computer interface.
>
> As opposed to paying the $ for an authentic GS-232B, I see the following
> item come up a lot in my EBay feed, and I'm left to wonder if it is worth
> trying:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rotator-Control-Interface-Board-with-Cable-USB-232B-for-YAESU-G-800-1000-2800DXA/124009089208?hash=item1cdf8488b8:g:a0YAAOSw-c9d8wtl
>
> That, or I spring for a Green Heron, right?
>
> What do you think? What other options should I consider?
>
> /ch
> N6QR

From DCFox at rwglaw.com  Sun Aug  2 21:39:14 2020
From: DCFox at rwglaw.com (D. Craig Fox)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2020 21:39:14 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] GS-232B Advice?
In-Reply-To: <CAFvUairk-trKoAATu6cpq4Cz3E8wd2D4RLcSFSjzv2ma-G=g3Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANPmdb0dHY==tSxeUf5NBCURSarh+MqMgogmW-5c1OrKiWYtnA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFvUairk-trKoAATu6cpq4Cz3E8wd2D4RLcSFSjzv2ma-G=g3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52bd02aea10a4983a3ebc24aa76d3968@RWGEX1.RWG.com>

Long time happy user of the Fox Delta. Price and customer service can't be beat.

73, Craig
N6RSX

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 3:43 AM
To: Chris Hoffman <cq.kg6o at gmail.com>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] GS-232B Advice?

Chris,

There's a few options

- LVB Tracker that you can still get on AMSAT-UKs shop
- Foxdelta ST2 lvb clone
- ERC-M
- EA4TX ars

There's many others including homebrew, and some very expensive commercial units.

I'd suggest one of those four, I'm currently using the ERC-M with good success.

Peter, 2M0SQL

On Fri, 31 Jul 2020, 19:05 Chris Hoffman via AMSAT-BB, <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Happy Birthday to me: I now own a G-5500 and it's controller! Now... I 
> need the computer interface.
>
> As opposed to paying the $ for an authentic GS-232B, I see the 
> following item come up a lot in my EBay feed, and I'm left to wonder 
> if it is worth
> trying:
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rotator-Control-Interface-Board-with-Cable-US
> B-232B-for-YAESU-G-800-1000-2800DXA/124009089208?hash=item1cdf8488b8:g
> :a0YAAOSw-c9d8wtl
>
> That, or I spring for a Green Heron, right?
>
> What do you think? What other options should I consider?
>
> /ch
> N6QR
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available 
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. 
> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect 
> the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


(If this message is spam, please report it to IT Dept.  Thank you.)

From johnv at frontier.com  Sun Aug  2 21:48:21 2020
From: johnv at frontier.com (johnv at frontier.com)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2020 21:48:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-91 at 1745 UTC on 8/2/2020
References: <565961067.465248.1596404901023.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <565961067.465248.1596404901023@mail.yahoo.com>

Does anyone have a tape of this pass???AO-91 at 1745 UTC on 8/2/2020. ?? I confirmed the call and grid but wrote it down wrong.??? My recorder was not on.
Thanks and Stay Safe
John - N7AME CN87





Faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  2 21:51:31 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2020 14:51:31 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] QSO Today Virtual Ham Expo satellite presentation.
In-Reply-To: <00f201d66856$1bd4dee0$537e9ca0$@verizon.net>
References: <00f201d66856$1bd4dee0$537e9ca0$.ref@verizon.net>
	<00f201d66856$1bd4dee0$537e9ca0$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <bb059e51-0918-489f-89f0-62d8115634eb@yahoo.com>

Tom,

Thanks for doing this. I'm looking forward to seeing your presentation.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Aug 1, 2020, 15:53, at 15:53, "Tom Schuessler, N5HYP via AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I was able to slip under the wire and obtain what turns out to be the
>very
>last presenter slot for the upcoming QSO Today Virtual Ham Expo event
>this
>coming weekend, August 8 and 9, https://www.qsotodayhamexpo.com/ .  I
>will
>be doing a "Getting Started with Amateur Radio Satellites presentation
>which
>is scheduled at the conclusion of the second day of the event, starting
>at
>2245Z on Sunday August 9th.  The first half of the hour will be a
>pre-recorded and edited talk I submitted to them for playback at that
>time,
>followed by a live Q and A session for those attending real time.  My
>recorded piece also includes a tour of my portable setup as well as
>part of
>a contact on RS-44.  The event organizers will then archive  that
>presentation and Q and A, along with the others for the weekend for
>on-demand streaming over the next month.  I also get to have a virtual
>"Table" with downloads that can be grabbed and viewed at a later time,
>just
>like a real information table.
>
>I only had about a day to put together the edited 30 minutes and felt
>like I
>had to rush through things and definately know I forgot items and
>concepts
>that I hope to be able to bring up during the Q and A.  I hope though
>that
>it will be enough to grab the interest of the hearers.
>
>The event organizers have come up with a cool way to spur ongoing
>interest
>in participating in as much of the event activities as possible, by
>giving
>points for every activity viewed.  These points act as virtual tickets
>in a
>prize drum and can accumulate for the month following the live Expo. 
>The
>more activities one takes in, the more tickets, and thus, the more
>chances
>to win a cool selection of prizes.
>
>If you know someone who is interested in learning more about our
>fascinating
>niche of the amateur radio hobby, please do send them to the event and
>point
>out the presentation time on August 9, or the post event archives.
>
>I think they are planning on doing this again next March and I do hope
>to
>have an improved video presentation by then.
>
>73 and hope to see you, virtually at least.
>
>Tom Schuessler, N5HYP
>EM12ms
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From cee at palomarlight.com  Mon Aug  3 03:38:40 2020
From: cee at palomarlight.com (CEE)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2020 20:38:40 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] GS-232B Advice?
In-Reply-To: <52bd02aea10a4983a3ebc24aa76d3968@RWGEX1.RWG.com>
References: <CANPmdb0dHY==tSxeUf5NBCURSarh+MqMgogmW-5c1OrKiWYtnA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFvUairk-trKoAATu6cpq4Cz3E8wd2D4RLcSFSjzv2ma-G=g3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<52bd02aea10a4983a3ebc24aa76d3968@RWGEX1.RWG.com>
Message-ID: <74e69f57-66a3-05f2-3a24-58a16be0379c@palomarlight.com>

I agree with Craig, my Fox Delta LVB tracker has worked flawlessly for 
several years now. Great price, great service, nice kit.

73 Chuck

N7BFO

On 8/2/2020 2:39 PM, D. Craig Fox via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Long time happy user of the Fox Delta. Price and customer service can't be beat.
>
> 73, Craig
> N6RSX
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB
> Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 3:43 AM
> To: Chris Hoffman <cq.kg6o at gmail.com>
> Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] GS-232B Advice?
>
> Chris,
>
> There's a few options
>
> - LVB Tracker that you can still get on AMSAT-UKs shop
> - Foxdelta ST2 lvb clone
> - ERC-M
> - EA4TX ars
>
> There's many others including homebrew, and some very expensive commercial units.
>
> I'd suggest one of those four, I'm currently using the ERC-M with good success.
>
> Peter, 2M0SQL
>
> On Fri, 31 Jul 2020, 19:05 Chris Hoffman via AMSAT-BB, <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Happy Birthday to me: I now own a G-5500 and it's controller! Now... I
>> need the computer interface.
>>
>> As opposed to paying the $ for an authentic GS-232B, I see the
>> following item come up a lot in my EBay feed, and I'm left to wonder
>> if it is worth
>> trying:
>>
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rotator-Control-Interface-Board-with-Cable-US
>> B-232B-for-YAESU-G-800-1000-2800DXA/124009089208?hash=item1cdf8488b8:g
>> :a0YAAOSw-c9d8wtl
>>
>> That, or I spring for a Green Heron, right?
>>
>> What do you think? What other options should I consider?
>>
>> /ch
>> N6QR
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect
>> the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> (If this message is spam, please report it to IT Dept.  Thank you.)
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From max at boryspil.net.ua  Mon Aug  3 10:46:56 2020
From: max at boryspil.net.ua (Max)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 13:46:56 +0300
Subject: [amsat-bb] Repeater Vertex Standard VXR-9000U to hamradio band
	(433Mhz)
In-Reply-To: <52bd02aea10a4983a3ebc24aa76d3968@RWGEX1.RWG.com>
References: <CANPmdb0dHY==tSxeUf5NBCURSarh+MqMgogmW-5c1OrKiWYtnA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFvUairk-trKoAATu6cpq4Cz3E8wd2D4RLcSFSjzv2ma-G=g3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<52bd02aea10a4983a3ebc24aa76d3968@RWGEX1.RWG.com>
Message-ID: <3fe2ed39-c5b3-88a6-31c8-1ec84b791e79@boryspil.net.ua>

Good day,
Immediately I apologize for my request in this topic.

Can you please tell me where you can read how to reconfigure the 
repeater to work in the amateur band?

Or who can I write to help?

Thank.


From zmetzing at pobox.com  Mon Aug  3 14:04:48 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 09:04:48 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Repeater Vertex Standard VXR-9000U to hamradio band
 (433Mhz)
In-Reply-To: <3fe2ed39-c5b3-88a6-31c8-1ec84b791e79@boryspil.net.ua>
References: <CANPmdb0dHY==tSxeUf5NBCURSarh+MqMgogmW-5c1OrKiWYtnA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFvUairk-trKoAATu6cpq4Cz3E8wd2D4RLcSFSjzv2ma-G=g3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<52bd02aea10a4983a3ebc24aa76d3968@RWGEX1.RWG.com>
	<3fe2ed39-c5b3-88a6-31c8-1ec84b791e79@boryspil.net.ua>
Message-ID: <812bb211-b381-fa49-8332-5426d6a86e7f@pobox.com>

On 08/03/20 05:46, Max via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Can you please tell me where you can read how to reconfigure the 
> repeater to work in the amateur band?

Hello Max,

Are you a licensed amateur radio operator? I did not see your call in 
the post.

Are you planning to use this radio for satellite work?

Googling for "VXR-9000 amateur" returns several promising pages of 
information.

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From max at boryspil.net.ua  Mon Aug  3 14:19:20 2020
From: max at boryspil.net.ua (Max)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:19:20 +0300
Subject: [amsat-bb] Repeater Vertex Standard VXR-9000U to hamradio band
 (433Mhz)
In-Reply-To: <812bb211-b381-fa49-8332-5426d6a86e7f@pobox.com>
References: <CANPmdb0dHY==tSxeUf5NBCURSarh+MqMgogmW-5c1OrKiWYtnA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFvUairk-trKoAATu6cpq4Cz3E8wd2D4RLcSFSjzv2ma-G=g3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<52bd02aea10a4983a3ebc24aa76d3968@RWGEX1.RWG.com>
	<3fe2ed39-c5b3-88a6-31c8-1ec84b791e79@boryspil.net.ua>
	<812bb211-b381-fa49-8332-5426d6a86e7f@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <98c72e83-8f23-4696-f2ff-a12a72feb4df@boryspil.net.ua>

Good day,
Thanks for the answer.
I apologize for disturbing this mailing list with my question.
This will never happen again.


03.08.2020 17:04, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB ????:
> On 08/03/20 05:46, Max via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>> Can you please tell me where you can read how to reconfigure the 
>> repeater to work in the amateur band?
>
> Hello Max,
>
> Are you a licensed amateur radio operator? I did not see your call in 
> the post.
>
> Are you planning to use this radio for satellite work?
>
> Googling for "VXR-9000 amateur" returns several promising pages of 
> information.
>
> --- Zach
> N0ZGO
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. 
> Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views 
> of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite 
> program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From jim at k6ccc.org  Mon Aug  3 14:24:05 2020
From: jim at k6ccc.org (jim at k6ccc.org)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 07:24:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [amsat-bb]
 =?utf-8?q?Repeater_Vertex_Standard_VXR-9000U_to_hamrad?=
 =?utf-8?q?io_band_=28433Mhz=29?=
In-Reply-To: <3fe2ed39-c5b3-88a6-31c8-1ec84b791e79@boryspil.net.ua>
References: <CANPmdb0dHY==tSxeUf5NBCURSarh+MqMgogmW-5c1OrKiWYtnA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFvUairk-trKoAATu6cpq4Cz3E8wd2D4RLcSFSjzv2ma-G=g3Q@mail.gmail.com> 
	<52bd02aea10a4983a3ebc24aa76d3968@RWGEX1.RWG.com> 
	<3fe2ed39-c5b3-88a6-31c8-1ec84b791e79@boryspil.net.ua>
Message-ID: <1596464645.19526542@apps.rackspace.com>


A far better place to ask is the Vertex Standard group on Yahoo:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/vertex-standard/info

Jim - K6CCC



-----Original Message-----
From: "Max via AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 03:46
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Repeater Vertex Standard VXR-9000U to hamradio band (433Mhz)

Good day,
Immediately I apologize for my request in this topic.

Can you please tell me where you can read how to reconfigure the 
repeater to work in the amateur band?

Or who can I write to help?

Thank.

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb



From n4csitwo at bellsouth.net  Mon Aug  3 16:25:06 2020
From: n4csitwo at bellsouth.net (David Jordan)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 16:25:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] ARISS News Release No. 20-10
References: <1107056798.7848264.1596471906370.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1107056798.7848264.1596471906370@mail.yahoo.com>


?

?

ARISS News Release??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????? No.?? 20-10??????

Dave Jordan, AA4KN 

ARISS PR

aa4kn at amsat.org

?

?

?

FORIMMEDIATE RELEASE

?

SSTV Event Scheduled for earlyAugust

?

August03, 2020 ? A Slow Scan TV (SSTV) event is scheduled from the InternationalSpace Station (ISS) for early August. Date and times for the event are Aug 4 (12:25-18:10 UTC) for setup and operation andAug 5 (08:15-18:25 UTC) for operation and close down. This is an MAI-75experiment activity developed by the MoscowAviation Institute.

?

Imageswill be downlinked at 145.8 MHz and the expected SSTV mode of operation is PD120. Radio enthusiasts participating in the event can post and view images onthe ARISS SSTV Gallery at https://www.spaceflightsoftware.com/ARISS_SSTV/. 

?

?

About ARISS:

Amateur Radio on the InternationalSpace Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radio societiesand the space agencies that support the International Space Station (ISS).? In the United States, sponsors are the RadioAmateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio Relay League (ARRL),the ISS National Lab and NASA?s Space Communications and Navigation program.The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science, technology,engineering, the arts, and mathematics topics by organizing scheduled contactsvia amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS and students. Before andduring these radio contacts, students, educators, parents, and communitieslearn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. For more information,see www.ariss.org

.



?

MediaContact:

DaveJordan, AA4KN

ARISSPR

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Likeus on Facebook. Follow us on Twitter. Search on Amateur Radio on the ISS and at ARISS_status. 



From dtabor52 at icloud.com  Mon Aug  3 17:33:14 2020
From: dtabor52 at icloud.com (Douglas B Tabor)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 11:33:14 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballot received
Message-ID: <0EE2A98E-FE1A-4E42-9A66-0624AEF5179B@icloud.com>

I did finally receive my ballot, but was that horse ever tired.

Just hoping that it makes it back to the other coast before the
first snow flies.

73, Doug, N6UA
DN71qd

Douglas Tabor
dtabor52 at icloud.com


From skristof at etczone.com  Mon Aug  3 18:00:18 2020
From: skristof at etczone.com (Steve Kristoff)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2020 14:00:18 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballot received
In-Reply-To: <0EE2A98E-FE1A-4E42-9A66-0624AEF5179B@icloud.com>
References: <0EE2A98E-FE1A-4E42-9A66-0624AEF5179B@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <923d07363653d2a935f5a1171a34d0a2@etczone.com>


Haven't seen my ballot yet. Can you direct that horse in the direction of Indiana please, Doug?

Steve AI9IN
EM79ji

?
----- Original Message -----
From: Douglas B Tabor via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
Date: 08/03/20 13:48
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballot received

I did finally receive my ballot, but was that horse ever tired.

Just hoping that it makes it back to the other coast before the
first snow flies.

73, Doug, N6UA
DN71qd

Douglas Tabor
dtabor52 at icloud.com





From lanekg at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 18:08:39 2020
From: lanekg at gmail.com (Greg Lane)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 13:08:39 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] (no subject)
Message-ID: <CAKBWdLrXnNpgCWk-fRCs0ziuruNXmawAZ-bM7i63nQnqi4kyng@mail.gmail.com>



From cq.kg6o at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 18:15:11 2020
From: cq.kg6o at gmail.com (Chris Hoffman)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 11:15:11 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] GS-232B Advice?
In-Reply-To: <74e69f57-66a3-05f2-3a24-58a16be0379c@palomarlight.com>
References: <CANPmdb0dHY==tSxeUf5NBCURSarh+MqMgogmW-5c1OrKiWYtnA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFvUairk-trKoAATu6cpq4Cz3E8wd2D4RLcSFSjzv2ma-G=g3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<52bd02aea10a4983a3ebc24aa76d3968@RWGEX1.RWG.com>
	<74e69f57-66a3-05f2-3a24-58a16be0379c@palomarlight.com>
Message-ID: <CANPmdb0u9A1E4xV5rSyp5q2hCkts9c-g95yt=VUhdMgw71KRkw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, everyone, for your input!


Pablo, EA4TX, was amazingly responsive with replies to my questions, and I
suspect that he has the superior all-in-one product, with the most-complete
design and the least hassle.

The Vbiroplex kit seems to be the most flexible pre-fab option, and runs
off of LVB logic.

The K3NG arduino option (and kit plans) are likely what I will to consider
at stage-two, when I decide to implement some sort of Euler Angle
automation for mounting plane sensing and translatio in order to run the
az-el on a trailer (ala satellite + VHF/UHF rover)... if anyone has
experience with this, please let me know.

The and the eham reviews, vibroplex and EA4TX documentation provide no
discernable differentiation between products, so I'm left to assume
'functional equivalence' between each of the kit options at this point.

After lots of research and abandonment of shopping carts, The price point
with an enclosure is the lowest for the Fox Delta USB kit.


So: I decided to start with the FoxDelta ST2 0417 for now, just to get some
automation going, and figure out what I want to do from there.

I'll respond as soon as I have my kit installed and running with the rotor
with any weirdness.

/ch
N6QR


On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 8:38 PM CEE <cee at palomarlight.com> wrote:

> I agree with Craig, my Fox Delta LVB tracker has worked flawlessly for
> several years now. Great price, great service, nice kit.
>
> 73 Chuck
>
> N7BFO
>
> On 8/2/2020 2:39 PM, D. Craig Fox via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > Long time happy user of the Fox Delta. Price and customer service can't
> be beat.
> >
> > 73, Craig
> > N6RSX
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Peter Goodhall
> (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB
> > Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 3:43 AM
> > To: Chris Hoffman <cq.kg6o at gmail.com>
> > Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] GS-232B Advice?
> >
> > Chris,
> >
> > There's a few options
> >
> > - LVB Tracker that you can still get on AMSAT-UKs shop
> > - Foxdelta ST2 lvb clone
> > - ERC-M
> > - EA4TX ars
> >
> > There's many others including homebrew, and some very expensive
> commercial units.
> >
> > I'd suggest one of those four, I'm currently using the ERC-M with good
> success.
> >
> > Peter, 2M0SQL
> >
> > On Fri, 31 Jul 2020, 19:05 Chris Hoffman via AMSAT-BB, <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Happy Birthday to me: I now own a G-5500 and it's controller! Now... I
> >> need the computer interface.
> >>
> >> As opposed to paying the $ for an authentic GS-232B, I see the
> >> following item come up a lot in my EBay feed, and I'm left to wonder
> >> if it is worth
> >> trying:
> >>
> >> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rotator-Control-Interface-Board-with-Cable-US
> >> B-232B-for-YAESU-G-800-1000-2800DXA/124009089208?hash=item1cdf8488b8:g
> >> :a0YAAOSw-c9d8wtl
> >>
> >> That, or I spring for a Green Heron, right?
> >>
> >> What do you think? What other options should I consider?
> >>
> >> /ch
> >> N6QR
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect
> >> the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> >
> > (If this message is spam, please report it to IT Dept.  Thank you.)
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From e.krome at comcast.net  Mon Aug  3 18:31:18 2020
From: e.krome at comcast.net (Ed Krome)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 14:31:18 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballot received
In-Reply-To: <923d07363653d2a935f5a1171a34d0a2@etczone.com>
References: <923d07363653d2a935f5a1171a34d0a2@etczone.com>
Message-ID: <E4C96C74-367D-4B76-BFC8-4898658F1BD3@comcast.net>

Send Brennan a note. 

brennanprice at verizon.net

Ed Krome K9EK

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 3, 2020, at 2:14 PM, Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Haven't seen my ballot yet. Can you direct that horse in the direction of Indiana please, Doug?
> 
> Steve AI9IN
> EM79ji
> 
>  
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Douglas B Tabor via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
> Date: 08/03/20 13:48
> To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballot received
> 
> I did finally receive my ballot, but was that horse ever tired.
> 
> Just hoping that it makes it back to the other coast before the
> first snow flies.
> 
> 73, Doug, N6UA
> DN71qd
> 
> Douglas Tabor
> dtabor52 at icloud.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From n4csitwo at bellsouth.net  Mon Aug  3 21:40:13 2020
From: n4csitwo at bellsouth.net (David Jordan)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 21:40:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] ARISS News Release No. 20-10
References: <1970595214.58269.1596490813409.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1970595214.58269.1596490813409@mail.yahoo.com>


?

?

ARISS News Release??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????? No.?? 20-10??????

Dave Jordan, AA4KN 

ARISS PR

aa4kn at amsat.org

?

?

?

FORIMMEDIATE RELEASE

?

SSTV Event Scheduled for earlyAugust

?

August03, 2020 ? A Slow Scan TV (SSTV) event is scheduled from the InternationalSpace Station (ISS) for early August. Date and times for the event are Aug 4 (12:25-18:10 UTC) for setup and operation andAug 5 (08:15-18:25 UTC) for operation and close down. This is an MAI-75experiment activity developed by the MoscowAviation Institute.

?

Imageswill be downlinked at 145.8 MHz and the expected SSTV mode of operation is PD120. Radio enthusiasts participating in the event can post and view images onthe ARISS SSTV Gallery at https://www.spaceflightsoftware.com/ARISS_SSTV/. 

?

?

About ARISS:

Amateur Radio on the InternationalSpace Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radiosocieties and the space agencies that support the International Space Station(ISS).? In the United States, sponsorsare the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio RelayLeague (ARRL), the ISS National Lab and NASA?s Space Communications and Navigationprogram. The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science,technology, engineering, the arts, and mathematics topics by organizingscheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS andstudents. Before and during these radio contacts, students, educators, parents,and communities learn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. Formore information, see www.ariss.org



.


?

MediaContact:

DaveJordan, AA4KN

ARISSPR

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Likeus on Facebook. Follow us on Twitter. Search on Amateur Radio on the ISS and at ARISS_status. 


From wandtosborne at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 23:02:14 2020
From: wandtosborne at gmail.com (Wendy and Terry Osborne)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 11:02:14 +1200
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballot received
In-Reply-To: <E4C96C74-367D-4B76-BFC8-4898658F1BD3@comcast.net>
References: <923d07363653d2a935f5a1171a34d0a2@etczone.com>
	<E4C96C74-367D-4B76-BFC8-4898658F1BD3@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1a34de42-e36e-8ff3-7e2e-ce6742d8bca2@gmail.com>

The horse has wings!
My ballot arrived yesterday.
73,
Terry Osborne ZL2BAC

On 4/08/2020 6:31 am, Ed Krome via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Send Brennan a note.
>
> brennanprice at verizon.net
>
> Ed Krome K9EK
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 3, 2020, at 2:14 PM, Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> Haven't seen my ballot yet. Can you direct that horse in the direction of Indiana please, Doug?
>>
>> Steve AI9IN
>> EM79ji
>>
>>   
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Douglas B Tabor via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
>> Date: 08/03/20 13:48
>> To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballot received
>>
>> I did finally receive my ballot, but was that horse ever tired.
>>
>> Just hoping that it makes it back to the other coast before the
>> first snow flies.
>>
>> 73, Doug, N6UA
>> DN71qd
>>
>> Douglas Tabor
>> dtabor52 at icloud.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From howied231 at hotmail.com  Mon Aug  3 23:33:05 2020
From: howied231 at hotmail.com (Howie DeFelice)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 23:33:05 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <464D17ED-8713-4086-88F2-067D791DA6EE@mac.com>
References: <464D17ED-8713-4086-88F2-067D791DA6EE@mac.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR14MB35176F9D3CA9ABD22B37AF04E74D0@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Clint,

Since I am responsible for this, let me answer that question. All the candidates for AMSAT Board of Directors were given a mailing list containing the name, address and callsign of all AMSAT-NA members to be used to promote their candidacy to the membership. AMSAT does not have an official email list of members. I created the email list by cross referencing the callsigns from the membership with publicly available sources (QRZ.com). I offered to send emails on behalf of my two colleagues as well. Each email has an unsubscribe link that I immediately execute on reception. This mailing was not done by a third party. The list has an expiration date mandated by the secretary. You have several options if you do not to wish to receive email from me. You can delete it on sight, you can create a rule to automatically delete all email from me or you can unsubscribe and you will no longer receive email from me.

If you have any other questions or concerns please email me directly and I will be happy to assist.

Regards,
Howie AB2S

________________________________
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> on behalf of Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 1:08 AM
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at AMSAT.Org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?

Gawd, did someone sue AMSAT-NA to obtain a membership email mailing list or something?

All sorts of campaign statements from folks who don?t deserve votes in my IN BOX this evening ?

No need to reply.

Clint Bradford K6LCS
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From stephennipper at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 23:41:10 2020
From: stephennipper at gmail.com (H. Stephen Nipper)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:41:10 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballot received
In-Reply-To: <1a34de42-e36e-8ff3-7e2e-ce6742d8bca2@gmail.com>
References: <923d07363653d2a935f5a1171a34d0a2@etczone.com>
	<E4C96C74-367D-4B76-BFC8-4898658F1BD3@comcast.net>
	<1a34de42-e36e-8ff3-7e2e-ce6742d8bca2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPf7+3rjpuUikSjCq8z6eHZ9wsdw+BU8CBGFD14CO+txcyq-Eg@mail.gmail.com>

I received mine on Friday, and after prayerfully reviewing the options,
marked mine and sent it off on Monday.

The post office isn't what it used to be, must be all that crap housewives
across the USA are ordering from China.  Oh wait maybe that is just my wife.

Stephen Nipper
N7DJX


On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 5:04 PM Wendy and Terry Osborne via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> The horse has wings!
> My ballot arrived yesterday.
> 73,
> Terry Osborne ZL2BAC
>
> On 4/08/2020 6:31 am, Ed Krome via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > Send Brennan a note.
> >
> > brennanprice at verizon.net
> >
> > Ed Krome K9EK
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Aug 3, 2020, at 2:14 PM, Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> ?
> >> Haven't seen my ballot yet. Can you direct that horse in the direction
> of Indiana please, Doug?
> >>
> >> Steve AI9IN
> >> EM79ji
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Douglas B Tabor via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
> >> Date: 08/03/20 13:48
> >> To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> >> Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballot received
> >>
> >> I did finally receive my ballot, but was that horse ever tired.
> >>
> >> Just hoping that it makes it back to the other coast before the
> >> first snow flies.
> >>
> >> 73, Doug, N6UA
> >> DN71qd
> >>
> >> Douglas Tabor
> >> dtabor52 at icloud.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
Stephen Nipper
Boise, Idaho
N7DJX

From k8tl at earthlink.net  Tue Aug  4 01:14:03 2020
From: k8tl at earthlink.net (Rose Lubbers)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2020 21:14:03 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 314
Message-ID: <t5220l8tlwst9en4n8hhhvf3.1596503643871@email.android.com>



On August 3, 2020, at 5:40 PM, amsat-bb-request at amsat.org wrote:

Send AMSAT-BB mailing list submissions to
	amsat-bb at amsat.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	amsat-bb-request at amsat.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	amsat-bb-owner at amsat.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of AMSAT-BB digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: QSO Today Virtual Ham Expo satellite presentation. (W3AB/GEO)
   2. Re: GS-232B Advice? (CEE)
   3. Repeater Vertex Standard VXR-9000U to hamradio band	(433Mhz) (Max)
   4. Re: Repeater Vertex Standard VXR-9000U to hamradio band
      (433Mhz) (Zach Metzinger)
   5. Re: Repeater Vertex Standard VXR-9000U to hamradio band
      (433Mhz) (Max)
   6. Re: Repeater Vertex Standard VXR-9000U to hamradio band
      (433Mhz) (jim at k6ccc.org)
   7. ARISS News Release No. 20-10 (David Jordan)
   8. Ballot received (Douglas B Tabor)
   9. Re: Ballot received (Steve Kristoff)
  10. (no subject) (Greg Lane)
  11. Re: GS-232B Advice? (Chris Hoffman)
  12. Re: Ballot received (Ed Krome)
  13. ARISS News Release No. 20-10 (David Jordan)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2020 14:51:31 -0700
From: W3AB/GEO <w3ab at yahoo.com>
To: tjschuessler at verizon.net
Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] QSO Today Virtual Ham Expo satellite
	presentation.
Message-ID: <bb059e51-0918-489f-89f0-62d8115634eb at yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Tom,

Thanks for doing this. I'm looking forward to seeing your presentation.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Aug 1, 2020, 15:53, at 15:53, "Tom Schuessler, N5HYP via AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I was able to slip under the wire and obtain what turns out to be the
>very
>last presenter slot for the upcoming QSO Today Virtual Ham Expo event
>this
>coming weekend, August 8 and 9, https://www.qsotodayhamexpo.com/ .  I
>will
>be doing a "Getting Started with Amateur Radio Satellites presentation
>which
>is scheduled at the conclusion of the second day of the event, starting
>at
>2245Z on Sunday August 9th.  The first half of the hour will be a
>pre-recorded and edited talk I submitted to them for playback at that
>time,
>followed by a live Q and A session for those attending real time.  My
>recorded piece also includes a tour of my portable setup as well as
>part of
>a contact on RS-44.  The event organizers will then archive  that
>presentation and Q and A, along with the others for the weekend for
>on-demand streaming over the next month.  I also get to have a virtual
>"Table" with downloads that can be grabbed and viewed at a later time,
>just
>like a real information table.
>
>I only had about a day to put together the edited 30 minutes and felt
>like I
>had to rush through things and definately know I forgot items and
>concepts
>that I hope to be able to bring up during the Q and A.  I hope though
>that
>it will be enough to grab the interest of the hearers.
>
>The event organizers have come up with a cool way to spur ongoing
>interest
>in participating in as much of the event activities as possible, by
>giving
>points for every activity viewed.  These points act as virtual tickets
>in a
>prize drum and can accumulate for the month following the live Expo. 
>The
>more activities one takes in, the more tickets, and thus, the more
>chances
>to win a cool selection of prizes.
>
>If you know someone who is interested in learning more about our
>fascinating
>niche of the amateur radio hobby, please do send them to the event and
>point
>out the presentation time on August 9, or the post event archives.
>
>I think they are planning on doing this again next March and I do hope
>to
>have an improved video presentation by then.
>
>73 and hope to see you, virtually at least.
>
>Tom Schuessler, N5HYP
>EM12ms
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2020 20:38:40 -0700
From: CEE <cee at palomarlight.com>
To: Chris Hoffman <cq.kg6o at gmail.com>, DCFox at rwglaw.com
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] GS-232B Advice?
Message-ID: <74e69f57-66a3-05f2-3a24-58a16be0379c at palomarlight.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

I agree with Craig, my Fox Delta LVB tracker has worked flawlessly for 
several years now. Great price, great service, nice kit.

73 Chuck

N7BFO

On 8/2/2020 2:39 PM, D. Craig Fox via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Long time happy user of the Fox Delta. Price and customer service can't be beat.
>
> 73, Craig
> N6RSX
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB
> Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 3:43 AM
> To: Chris Hoffman <cq.kg6o at gmail.com>
> Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] GS-232B Advice?
>
> Chris,
>
> There's a few options
>
> - LVB Tracker that you can still get on AMSAT-UKs shop
> - Foxdelta ST2 lvb clone
> - ERC-M
> - EA4TX ars
>
> There's many others including homebrew, and some very expensive commercial units.
>
> I'd suggest one of those four, I'm currently using the ERC-M with good success.
>
> Peter, 2M0SQL
>
> On Fri, 31 Jul 2020, 19:05 Chris Hoffman via AMSAT-BB, <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Happy Birthday to me: I now own a G-5500 and it's controller! Now... I
>> need the computer interface.
>>
>> As opposed to paying the $ for an authentic GS-232B, I see the
>> following item come up a lot in my EBay feed, and I'm left to wonder
>> if it is worth
>> trying:
>>
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rotator-Control-Interface-Board-with-Cable-US
>> B-232B-for-YAESU-G-800-1000-2800DXA/124009089208?hash=item1cdf8488b8:g
>> :a0YAAOSw-c9d8wtl
>>
>> That, or I spring for a Green Heron, right?
>>
>> What do you think? What other options should I consider?
>>
>> /ch
>> N6QR
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect
>> the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> (If this message is spam, please report it to IT Dept.  Thank you.)
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 13:46:56 +0300
From: Max <max at boryspil.net.ua>
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Repeater Vertex Standard VXR-9000U to hamradio
	band	(433Mhz)
Message-ID: <3fe2ed39-c5b3-88a6-31c8-1ec84b791e79 at boryspil.net.ua>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Good day,
Immediately I apologize for my request in this topic.

Can you please tell me where you can read how to reconfigure the 
repeater to work in the amateur band?

Or who can I write to help?

Thank.



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 09:04:48 -0500
From: Zach Metzinger <zmetzing at pobox.com>
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Repeater Vertex Standard VXR-9000U to hamradio
	band (433Mhz)
Message-ID: <812bb211-b381-fa49-8332-5426d6a86e7f at pobox.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

On 08/03/20 05:46, Max via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Can you please tell me where you can read how to reconfigure the 
> repeater to work in the amateur band?

Hello Max,

Are you a licensed amateur radio operator? I did not see your call in 
the post.

Are you planning to use this radio for satellite work?

Googling for "VXR-9000 amateur" returns several promising pages of 
information.

--- Zach
N0ZGO


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:19:20 +0300
From: Max <max at boryspil.net.ua>
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Repeater Vertex Standard VXR-9000U to hamradio
	band (433Mhz)
Message-ID: <98c72e83-8f23-4696-f2ff-a12a72feb4df at boryspil.net.ua>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Good day,
Thanks for the answer.
I apologize for disturbing this mailing list with my question.
This will never happen again.


03.08.2020 17:04, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB ????:
> On 08/03/20 05:46, Max via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>> Can you please tell me where you can read how to reconfigure the 
>> repeater to work in the amateur band?
>
> Hello Max,
>
> Are you a licensed amateur radio operator? I did not see your call in 
> the post.
>
> Are you planning to use this radio for satellite work?
>
> Googling for "VXR-9000 amateur" returns several promising pages of 
> information.
>
> --- Zach
> N0ZGO
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. 
> Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views 
> of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite 
> program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 07:24:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: "jim at k6ccc.org" <jim at k6ccc.org>
To: "Max" <max at boryspil.net.ua>
Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Repeater Vertex Standard VXR-9000U to hamradio
	band (433Mhz)
Message-ID: <1596464645.19526542 at apps.rackspace.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=UTF-8


A far better place to ask is the Vertex Standard group on Yahoo:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/vertex-standard/info

Jim - K6CCC



-----Original Message-----
From: "Max via AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 03:46
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Repeater Vertex Standard VXR-9000U to hamradio band (433Mhz)

Good day,
Immediately I apologize for my request in this topic.

Can you please tell me where you can read how to reconfigure the 
repeater to work in the amateur band?

Or who can I write to help?

Thank.

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb




------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 16:25:06 +0000 (UTC)
From: David Jordan <n4csitwo at bellsouth.net>
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] ARISS News Release No. 20-10
Message-ID: <1107056798.7848264.1596471906370 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8


?

?

ARISS News Release??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????? No.?? 20-10??????

Dave Jordan, AA4KN 

ARISS PR

aa4kn at amsat.org

?

?

?

FORIMMEDIATE RELEASE

?

SSTV Event Scheduled for earlyAugust

?

August03, 2020 ? A Slow Scan TV (SSTV) event is scheduled from the InternationalSpace Station (ISS) for early August. Date and times for the event are Aug 4 (12:25-18:10 UTC) for setup and operation andAug 5 (08:15-18:25 UTC) for operation and close down. This is an MAI-75experiment activity developed by the MoscowAviation Institute.

?

Imageswill be downlinked at 145.8 MHz and the expected SSTV mode of operation is PD120. Radio enthusiasts participating in the event can post and view images onthe ARISS SSTV Gallery at https://www.spaceflightsoftware.com/ARISS_SSTV/. 

?

?

About ARISS:

Amateur Radio on the InternationalSpace Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radio societiesand the space agencies that support the International Space Station (ISS).? In the United States, sponsors are the RadioAmateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio Relay League (ARRL),the ISS National Lab and NASA?s Space Communications and Navigation program.The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science, technology,engineering, the arts, and mathematics topics by organizing scheduled contactsvia amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS and students. Before andduring these radio contacts, students, educators, parents, and communitieslearn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. For more information,see www.ariss.org

.



?

MediaContact:

DaveJordan, AA4KN

ARISSPR

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Likeus on Facebook. Follow us on Twitter. Search on Amateur Radio on the ISS and at ARISS_status. 




------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 11:33:14 -0600
From: Douglas B Tabor <dtabor52 at icloud.com>
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballot received
Message-ID: <0EE2A98E-FE1A-4E42-9A66-0624AEF5179B at icloud.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii

I did finally receive my ballot, but was that horse ever tired.

Just hoping that it makes it back to the other coast before the
first snow flies.

73, Doug, N6UA
DN71qd

Douglas Tabor
dtabor52 at icloud.com



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2020 14:00:18 -0400
From: "Steve Kristoff" <skristof at etczone.com>
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Ballot received
Message-ID: <923d07363653d2a935f5a1171a34d0a2 at etczone.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8


Haven't seen my ballot yet. Can you direct that horse in the direction of Indiana please, Doug?

Steve AI9IN
EM79ji

?
----- Original Message -----
From: Douglas B Tabor via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
Date: 08/03/20 13:48
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballot received

I did finally receive my ballot, but was that horse ever tired.

Just hoping that it makes it back to the other coast before the
first snow flies.

73, Doug, N6UA
DN71qd

Douglas Tabor
dtabor52 at icloud.com






------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 13:08:39 -0500
From: Greg Lane <lanekg at gmail.com>
To: AMSAT-BB at amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] (no subject)
Message-ID:
	<CAKBWdLrXnNpgCWk-fRCs0ziuruNXmawAZ-bM7i63nQnqi4kyng at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"




------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 11:15:11 -0700
From: Chris Hoffman <cq.kg6o at gmail.com>
To: cee at palomarlight.com
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] GS-232B Advice?
Message-ID:
	<CANPmdb0u9A1E4xV5rSyp5q2hCkts9c-g95yt=VUhdMgw71KRkw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Thanks, everyone, for your input!


Pablo, EA4TX, was amazingly responsive with replies to my questions, and I
suspect that he has the superior all-in-one product, with the most-complete
design and the least hassle.

The Vbiroplex kit seems to be the most flexible pre-fab option, and runs
off of LVB logic.

The K3NG arduino option (and kit plans) are likely what I will to consider
at stage-two, when I decide to implement some sort of Euler Angle
automation for mounting plane sensing and translatio in order to run the
az-el on a trailer (ala satellite + VHF/UHF rover)... if anyone has
experience with this, please let me know.

The and the eham reviews, vibroplex and EA4TX documentation provide no
discernable differentiation between products, so I'm left to assume
'functional equivalence' between each of the kit options at this point.

After lots of research and abandonment of shopping carts, The price point
with an enclosure is the lowest for the Fox Delta USB kit.


So: I decided to start with the FoxDelta ST2 0417 for now, just to get some
automation going, and figure out what I want to do from there.

I'll respond as soon as I have my kit installed and running with the rotor
with any weirdness.

/ch
N6QR


On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 8:38 PM CEE <cee at palomarlight.com> wrote:

> I agree with Craig, my Fox Delta LVB tracker has worked flawlessly for
> several years now. Great price, great service, nice kit.
>
> 73 Chuck
>
> N7BFO
>
> On 8/2/2020 2:39 PM, D. Craig Fox via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > Long time happy user of the Fox Delta. Price and customer service can't
> be beat.
> >
> > 73, Craig
> > N6RSX
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Peter Goodhall
> (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB
> > Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 3:43 AM
> > To: Chris Hoffman <cq.kg6o at gmail.com>
> > Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] GS-232B Advice?
> >
> > Chris,
> >
> > There's a few options
> >
> > - LVB Tracker that you can still get on AMSAT-UKs shop
> > - Foxdelta ST2 lvb clone
> > - ERC-M
> > - EA4TX ars
> >
> > There's many others including homebrew, and some very expensive
> commercial units.
> >
> > I'd suggest one of those four, I'm currently using the ERC-M with good
> success.
> >
> > Peter, 2M0SQL
> >
> > On Fri, 31 Jul 2020, 19:05 Chris Hoffman via AMSAT-BB, <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Happy Birthday to me: I now own a G-5500 and it's controller! Now... I
> >> need the computer interface.
> >>
> >> As opposed to paying the $ for an authentic GS-232B, I see the
> >> following item come up a lot in my EBay feed, and I'm left to wonder
> >> if it is worth
> >> trying:
> >>
> >> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rotator-Control-Interface-Board-with-Cable-US
> >> B-232B-for-YAESU-G-800-1000-2800DXA/124009089208?hash=item1cdf8488b8:g
> >> :a0YAAOSw-c9d8wtl
> >>
> >> That, or I spring for a Green Heron, right?
> >>
> >> What do you think? What other options should I consider?
> >>
> >> /ch
> >> N6QR
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect
> >> the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> >
> > (If this message is spam, please report it to IT Dept.  Thank you.)
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 14:31:18 -0400
From: Ed Krome <e.krome at comcast.net>
To: Steve Kristoff <skristof at etczone.com>
Cc: AMSAT-BB at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Ballot received
Message-ID: <E4C96C74-367D-4B76-BFC8-4898658F1BD3 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Send Brennan a note. 

brennanprice at verizon.net

Ed Krome K9EK

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 3, 2020, at 2:14 PM, Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Haven't seen my ballot yet. Can you direct that horse in the direction of Indiana please, Doug?
> 
> Steve AI9IN
> EM79ji
> 
>  
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Douglas B Tabor via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
> Date: 08/03/20 13:48
> To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballot received
> 
> I did finally receive my ballot, but was that horse ever tired.
> 
> Just hoping that it makes it back to the other coast before the
> first snow flies.
> 
> 73, Doug, N6UA
> DN71qd
> 
> Douglas Tabor
> dtabor52 at icloud.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb



------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 21:40:13 +0000 (UTC)
From: David Jordan <n4csitwo at bellsouth.net>
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] ARISS News Release No. 20-10
Message-ID: <1970595214.58269.1596490813409 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8


?

?

ARISS News Release??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????? No.?? 20-10??????

Dave Jordan, AA4KN 

ARISS PR

aa4kn at amsat.org

?

?

?

FORIMMEDIATE RELEASE

?

SSTV Event Scheduled for earlyAugust

?

August03, 2020 ? A Slow Scan TV (SSTV) event is scheduled from the InternationalSpace Station (ISS) for early August. Date and times for the event are Aug 4 (12:25-18:10 UTC) for setup and operation andAug 5 (08:15-18:25 UTC) for operation and close down. This is an MAI-75experiment activity developed by the MoscowAviation Institute.

?

Imageswill be downlinked at 145.8 MHz and the expected SSTV mode of operation is PD120. Radio enthusiasts participating in the event can post and view images onthe ARISS SSTV Gallery at https://www.spaceflightsoftware.com/ARISS_SSTV/. 

?

?

About ARISS:

Amateur Radio on the InternationalSpace Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radiosocieties and the space agencies that support the International Space Station(ISS).? In the United States, sponsorsare the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio RelayLeague (ARRL), the ISS National Lab and NASA?s Space Communications and Navigationprogram. The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science,technology, engineering, the arts, and mathematics topics by organizingscheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS andstudents. Before and during these radio contacts, students, educators, parents,and communities learn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. Formore information, see www.ariss.org



.


?

MediaContact:

DaveJordan, AA4KN

ARISSPR

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Likeus on Facebook. Follow us on Twitter. Search on Amateur Radio on the ISS and at ARISS_status. 



------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb at amsat.org.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.  Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

------------------------------

End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 314
*****************************************

From clintbradford at mac.com  Tue Aug  4 05:28:50 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 22:28:50 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR14MB35176F9D3CA9ABD22B37AF04E74D0@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <464D17ED-8713-4086-88F2-067D791DA6EE@mac.com>
	<MN2PR14MB35176F9D3CA9ABD22B37AF04E74D0@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <0DAE8E4C-9A6E-4EA9-A247-1A61EC700E06@mac.com>

I was not ?offended? not do I want to ?un-subscribe? from your email messages.

I just though tit tedious to perform the work you did on this ?

Clint K6LCS



> On Aug 3, 2020, at 4:33 PM, Howie DeFelice <howied231 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Clint,
> 
> Since I am responsible for this, let me answer that question. ...

From bruce at perens.com  Tue Aug  4 07:28:28 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 00:28:28 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <0DAE8E4C-9A6E-4EA9-A247-1A61EC700E06@mac.com>
References: <464D17ED-8713-4086-88F2-067D791DA6EE@mac.com>
	<MN2PR14MB35176F9D3CA9ABD22B37AF04E74D0@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
	<0DAE8E4C-9A6E-4EA9-A247-1A61EC700E06@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOvngWaa0Kgq3g0fBLfJjc+GD9eUMDt96q14N59JhyuxsA@mail.gmail.com>

And he shouldn't have had to. The rules were intended to allow all
candidates access to AMSAT's publications for campaigning, which has never
worked, and it's discriminatory because the incumbents get those
publications as their pulpit year-round. And a postal mail list is provided
to them because the rules were written in 1969.

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020, 10:31 PM Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I was not ?offended? not do I want to ?un-subscribe? from your email
> messages.
>
> I just though tit tedious to perform the work you did on this ?
>
> Clint K6LCS
>
>
>
> > On Aug 3, 2020, at 4:33 PM, Howie DeFelice <howied231 at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Clint,
> >
> > Since I am responsible for this, let me answer that question. ...
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From cchunter3 at mindspring.com  Tue Aug  4 16:02:16 2020
From: cchunter3 at mindspring.com (christy hunter)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 09:02:16 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballot received
In-Reply-To: <CAPf7+3rjpuUikSjCq8z6eHZ9wsdw+BU8CBGFD14CO+txcyq-Eg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPf7+3rjpuUikSjCq8z6eHZ9wsdw+BU8CBGFD14CO+txcyq-Eg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2fc7ea4a-465f-62bf-79a4-5e9935937a42@mindspring.com>

We got ours weeks ago, probably just dumb luck with the USPS...

or maybe it was because of? a lull during all that electronic crap being 
ordered from China by? Ham radio operators in the USA,

oh wait, maybe that was just me.

73 Christy KB6LTY

> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:41:10 -0600
> From: "H. Stephen Nipper" <stephennipper at gmail.com>
> To: Wendy and Terry Osborne <wandtosborne at gmail.com>
> Cc: "amsat-bb at amsat.org" <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Ballot received
> Message-ID:
> <CAPf7+3rjpuUikSjCq8z6eHZ9wsdw+BU8CBGFD14CO+txcyq-Eg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I received mine on Friday, and after prayerfully reviewing the options,
> marked mine and sent it off on Monday.
>
> The post office isn't what it used to be, must be all that crap 
> housewives
> across the USA are ordering from China.? Oh wait maybe that is just my 
> wife.
>
> Stephen Nipper
> N7DJX
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 5:04 PM Wendy and Terry Osborne via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 19:24:36 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 12:24:36 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOvngWaa0Kgq3g0fBLfJjc+GD9eUMDt96q14N59JhyuxsA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <464D17ED-8713-4086-88F2-067D791DA6EE@mac.com>
	<MN2PR14MB35176F9D3CA9ABD22B37AF04E74D0@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
	<0DAE8E4C-9A6E-4EA9-A247-1A61EC700E06@mac.com>
	<CAK2MWOvngWaa0Kgq3g0fBLfJjc+GD9eUMDt96q14N59JhyuxsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2ViytnBHvk8pVMTJuKKBfZKthNjwWq9RisKaz-VqemgNw@mail.gmail.com>

Honestly, it's been extremely hard to take advantage of the publications
and official procedures from the "inside".

Just speaking for myself, the minutes of the meetings that show what I've
done as an individual for the organization haven't been published because
they haven't been approved.

Because we never had another board meeting, there's no way the earlier
minutes can be published. They are frozen in time.

Meanwhile, Officers and the majority Directors congratulate themselves
publicly on all activity.

A very few people control all of the social media, website content, and
column content in the AMSAT Journal.

I moved (and it was approved) for a bylaws committee to fix the things that
Bruce is talking about. There are several election issues, with electronic
voting roadblocks being a big one.

A bylaws committee is a big deal. It was a priority for Clayton Coleman. He
and I talked about it on the phone twice. I committed to help, and I did. I
am disappointed at the lack of follow through. The bylaws committee has yet
to meet. They had plenty of time. The men selected for this job are
qualified and can deliver good results. We should have been able to have
this committee meet, have their recommendations incorporated into the
bylaws, and offer electronic voting by 2020. Unlike other things we do,
this is not rocket science.

I moved (and it was approved) for AMSAT to formally support the ARISS AREx
project. This was a very high priority item for AREx. There were three
levels of support. The first was a very simple expression of "official
support" of the project. Publicly stating that the project was good for
amateur radio and should happen. That happened due to this motion.

The regulatory work that I've done is completely invisible to the
membership at this point, primarily because detailed minutes for the
members cannot be published without regular board meetings.

Clayton appointed me to lead very important ITAR/EAR regulatory work. That
would have also been in the minutes that the membership is prevented from
seeing.

We have everything we need to fix several decades of painful regulatory
bullshit. We have highly competent consultants, a motivated and competent
volunteer lead, and people with the technical writing chops to produce a
great policy document. We can't even get a board meeting to review the
work.

Not having any board meetings for an entire year means these things stay
invisible.

If you vote for Paul, Bruce, or Mark, then you will get another year of
this exact same thing.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 12:32 AM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> And he shouldn't have had to. The rules were intended to allow all
> candidates access to AMSAT's publications for campaigning, which has never
> worked, and it's discriminatory because the incumbents get those
> publications as their pulpit year-round. And a postal mail list is provided
> to them because the rules were written in 1969.
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020, 10:31 PM Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > I was not ?offended? not do I want to ?un-subscribe? from your email
> > messages.
> >
> > I just though tit tedious to perform the work you did on this ?
> >
> > Clint K6LCS
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Aug 3, 2020, at 4:33 PM, Howie DeFelice <howied231 at hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Clint,
> > >
> > > Since I am responsible for this, let me answer that question. ...
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From skristof at etczone.com  Tue Aug  4 21:07:59 2020
From: skristof at etczone.com (Steve Kristoff)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 17:07:59 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2ViytnBHvk8pVMTJuKKBfZKthNjwWq9RisKaz-VqemgNw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <464D17ED-8713-4086-88F2-067D791DA6EE@mac.com>
	<MN2PR14MB35176F9D3CA9ABD22B37AF04E74D0@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
	<0DAE8E4C-9A6E-4EA9-A247-1A61EC700E06@mac.com>
	<CAK2MWOvngWaa0Kgq3g0fBLfJjc+GD9eUMDt96q14N59JhyuxsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2ViytnBHvk8pVMTJuKKBfZKthNjwWq9RisKaz-VqemgNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8f67c15bfe385661f7894793fb91f41e@etczone.com>


Electronic voting would be good. I still have not received a ballot by mail.

Steve Kristoff ?AI9IN

Oldenburg, Indiana
EM79ji

?
----- Original Message -----
From: Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
Date: 08/04/20 15:27
To: Bruce Perens (bruce at perens.com)
Cc: Clint Bradford (clintbradford at mac.com), AMSAT BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?

Honestly, it's been extremely hard to take advantage of the publications
and official procedures from the "inside".

Just speaking for myself, the minutes of the meetings that show what I've
done as an individual for the organization haven't been published because
they haven't been approved.

Because we never had another board meeting, there's no way the earlier
minutes can be published. They are frozen in time.

Meanwhile, Officers and the majority Directors congratulate themselves
publicly on all activity.

A very few people control all of the social media, website content, and
column content in the AMSAT Journal.

I moved (and it was approved) for a bylaws committee to fix the things that
Bruce is talking about. There are several election issues, with electronic
voting roadblocks being a big one.





From w3ab at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  4 21:14:02 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 14:14:02 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2ViytnBHvk8pVMTJuKKBfZKthNjwWq9RisKaz-VqemgNw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <464D17ED-8713-4086-88F2-067D791DA6EE@mac.com>
	<MN2PR14MB35176F9D3CA9ABD22B37AF04E74D0@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
	<0DAE8E4C-9A6E-4EA9-A247-1A61EC700E06@mac.com>
	<CAK2MWOvngWaa0Kgq3g0fBLfJjc+GD9eUMDt96q14N59JhyuxsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2ViytnBHvk8pVMTJuKKBfZKthNjwWq9RisKaz-VqemgNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <848b7d40-96dd-41e2-b3f2-ea07f48cf0ae@yahoo.com>

If the ORG doesn't have at least one BOD per year with approved minutes that are available to the GM, the ORG is in danger of losing its 501(c)(3) status.

Just saying......

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Aug 4, 2020, 12:28, at 12:28, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>Honestly, it's been extremely hard to take advantage of the
>publications
>and official procedures from the "inside".
>
>Just speaking for myself, the minutes of the meetings that show what
>I've
>done as an individual for the organization haven't been published
>because
>they haven't been approved.
>
>Because we never had another board meeting, there's no way the earlier
>minutes can be published. They are frozen in time.
>
>Meanwhile, Officers and the majority Directors congratulate themselves
>publicly on all activity.
>
>A very few people control all of the social media, website content, and
>column content in the AMSAT Journal.
>
>I moved (and it was approved) for a bylaws committee to fix the things
>that
>Bruce is talking about. There are several election issues, with
>electronic
>voting roadblocks being a big one.
>
>A bylaws committee is a big deal. It was a priority for Clayton
>Coleman. He
>and I talked about it on the phone twice. I committed to help, and I
>did. I
>am disappointed at the lack of follow through. The bylaws committee has
>yet
>to meet. They had plenty of time. The men selected for this job are
>qualified and can deliver good results. We should have been able to
>have
>this committee meet, have their recommendations incorporated into the
>bylaws, and offer electronic voting by 2020. Unlike other things we do,
>this is not rocket science.
>
>I moved (and it was approved) for AMSAT to formally support the ARISS
>AREx
>project. This was a very high priority item for AREx. There were three
>levels of support. The first was a very simple expression of "official
>support" of the project. Publicly stating that the project was good for
>amateur radio and should happen. That happened due to this motion.
>
>The regulatory work that I've done is completely invisible to the
>membership at this point, primarily because detailed minutes for the
>members cannot be published without regular board meetings.
>
>Clayton appointed me to lead very important ITAR/EAR regulatory work.
>That
>would have also been in the minutes that the membership is prevented
>from
>seeing.
>
>We have everything we need to fix several decades of painful regulatory
>bullshit. We have highly competent consultants, a motivated and
>competent
>volunteer lead, and people with the technical writing chops to produce
>a
>great policy document. We can't even get a board meeting to review the
>work.
>
>Not having any board meetings for an entire year means these things
>stay
>invisible.
>
>If you vote for Paul, Bruce, or Mark, then you will get another year of
>this exact same thing.
>
>-Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
>
>On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 12:32 AM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
>amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> And he shouldn't have had to. The rules were intended to allow all
>> candidates access to AMSAT's publications for campaigning, which has
>never
>> worked, and it's discriminatory because the incumbents get those
>> publications as their pulpit year-round. And a postal mail list is
>provided
>> to them because the rules were written in 1969.
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020, 10:31 PM Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>> > I was not ?offended? not do I want to ?un-subscribe? from your
>email
>> > messages.
>> >
>> > I just though tit tedious to perform the work you did on this ?
>> >
>> > Clint K6LCS
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > On Aug 3, 2020, at 4:33 PM, Howie DeFelice
><howied231 at hotmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Hi Clint,
>> > >
>> > > Since I am responsible for this, let me answer that question. ...
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions
>> > expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>views of
>> > AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > Subscription settings:
>https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>> Subscription settings:
>https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From clayton at w5pfg.us  Tue Aug  4 21:30:45 2020
From: clayton at w5pfg.us (Clayton Coleman W5PFG)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 16:30:45 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Message-ID: <003f01d66aa6$838bc920$8aa35b60$@w5pfg.us>

No Directors are being muted, censored, or censured. Directors, Officers,
and volunteers make statements about their work for the corporation on
social media, blogs, or the AMSAT-BB. With or without regard for diplomacy,
certain Directors have taken an approach to make their opinions public
before bringing items up for discussion via the internal Board of Directors
mailing list. 

There is no majority or minority "party" at AMSAT. There are no political
parties defined by AMSAT. Continued claims about "incumbents" sounds very
divisive. All sitting Directors are incumbents. 

AMSAT is about shared interest in amateur radio and space - not personal
interests, vengeance, and politics.

Directors should be aware of how minutes of the Corporation work. The
Secretary writes them, the Board approves them, and then they are made
public. As of August 4th, the Secretary has not provided any draft minutes
for meetings after February 4th.

The claim about not having any Board Meetings for an entire year is false.
AMSAT has held three Board of Directors meetings plus an informal working
session in 2020. There will be at least one more formal Board of Directors
meeting before the 2020 Directors election concludes. The bylaws clearly
state the mechanics of calling a Board of Directors meeting.

Historical Board of Directors meetings held per year: 2019 (2), 2018 (3),
2017 (4), 2016 (3)
Ref: https://www.amsat.org/minutes-of-the-board-of-directors/

I refuse to engage in endless disputes via this email list out of respect
for its members, AMSAT's mission, and my love for amateur radio. Despite
exaggerated claims to the contrary, the reality is AMSAT remains committed
to success with new and existing partners.

AMSAT succeeds as a team or fails as a team.

73
Clayton
W5PFG


From jeff30339 at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 22:15:15 2020
From: jeff30339 at gmail.com (Jeff Johns)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 17:15:15 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <003f01d66aa6$838bc920$8aa35b60$@w5pfg.us>
References: <003f01d66aa6$838bc920$8aa35b60$@w5pfg.us>
Message-ID: <BD655DD9-60B8-4360-8949-8CA03FC5FD17@gmail.com>


> Historical Board of Directors meetings held per year: 2019 (2), 2018 (3),
> 2017 (4), 2016 (3)

Thanks for showing that there needs to be change. How can AMSAT flourish when you are only having 2-3 meetings a year. Technology changes more often than that. This pattern illustrates that there is a need for more meetings of Directors that direct Officers. The local school PTA meets more often than this. Just because something happened a particular way in the past does NOT mean it was correct or a good practice. AMSAT seriously needs new guidance, thoughts and ideas. I have read where many members are frustrated that there is a lack of leadership. This can be changed by voting for new Directors and not re-electing incumbents who have been comfortable to have just a couple of meetings a year and rubber stamps whatever business may come before them. Members should consider that when casting a vote. If members want to continue to coast, that is their right but the coasting is downhill and eventually you can?t coast any further and the ride is over.

Jeff WE4B 
http://we4bravo.com

From n8hm at arrl.net  Tue Aug  4 23:01:57 2020
From: n8hm at arrl.net (Paul Stoetzer)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 19:01:57 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Soaring Upward to HEO
Message-ID: <CABzOSOq-bB0MXhnmPdx+8c+=5EzK_fHtkZyATUzRs9tLgBAd_A@mail.gmail.com>

The past five years rank with the best in AMSAT's history and we are poised
for much more success in the future. We have launched four satellites and a
fifth is complete and awaiting launch. We have partnered with university
groups to place amateur transponders on their satellites. We are on a path
back to HEO through our GOLF program with the first two satellites in this
series, GOLF-TEE and GOLF-1, selected for launch opportunities. We continue
to support amateur radio on human spaceflight through ARISS and AREx. Our
CubeSat Simulator project has been very successful in promoting AMSAT's
mission of educational outreach. Due to these successes, membership numbers
and revenue continue to increase after a long period of decline from the
late 1990s. After falling to around 3,000 members in the early part of last
decade, we are now up to about 4,000 members. Additionally, activity on the
amateur satellites has increased considerably over the past several years.

In addition to satellite projects, we have launched a new, modern
membership portal. Our members now have access to all issues of The AMSAT
Journal from 2014 to the present and all of the AMSAT Symposium Proceedings
since 1986 through this portal. More publications are coming soon. We have
also modernized and revitalized the field program with our new AMSAT
Ambassador program.

If you want us to continue on the journey Upward to HEO, vote for Dr. Mark
Hammond, N8MH, Bruce Paige, KK5DO, and myself.

73,

Paul, N8HM
upwardtoheo.coom

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 23:26:09 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 19:26:09 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOvngWaa0Kgq3g0fBLfJjc+GD9eUMDt96q14N59JhyuxsA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <464D17ED-8713-4086-88F2-067D791DA6EE@mac.com>
	<MN2PR14MB35176F9D3CA9ABD22B37AF04E74D0@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
	<0DAE8E4C-9A6E-4EA9-A247-1A61EC700E06@mac.com>
	<CAK2MWOvngWaa0Kgq3g0fBLfJjc+GD9eUMDt96q14N59JhyuxsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c8kLNVPC9rqZgZ4VG9offWU2LZgPNy5xPQeV2wJrkFUtg@mail.gmail.com>

My goodness, the "infini-victims" strike again!

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO


On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:32 AM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> And he shouldn't have had to. The rules were intended to allow all
> candidates access to AMSAT's publications for campaigning, which has never
> worked, and it's discriminatory because the incumbents get those
> publications as their pulpit year-round. And a postal mail list is provided
> to them because the rules were written in 1969.
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020, 10:31 PM Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > I was not ?offended? not do I want to ?un-subscribe? from your email
> > messages.
> >
> > I just though tit tedious to perform the work you did on this ?
> >
> > Clint K6LCS
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Aug 3, 2020, at 4:33 PM, Howie DeFelice <howied231 at hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Clint,
> > >
> > > Since I am responsible for this, let me answer that question. ...
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 23:42:39 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 16:42:39 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <BD655DD9-60B8-4360-8949-8CA03FC5FD17@gmail.com>
References: <003f01d66aa6$838bc920$8aa35b60$@w5pfg.us>
	<BD655DD9-60B8-4360-8949-8CA03FC5FD17@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2XEUW8rQ4ZYPieuvp5fNicuA4r2311Ke08JtRVa3SP70g@mail.gmail.com>

We've one meeting with reports and new business.

The others were extremely short "emergency" meetings. One, to nominate and
elect a new president after Joe Spier resigned. No new business
entertained. No reports. No minutes approved.

The other, solely to vote on the Covid loan. Multiple "reminders" that it
was limited to 15 minutes. No new business entertained. No reports. No
minutes approved.

It's not healthy to run a membership organization this way.

I have faith and optimism that it will get better with this election.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:17 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

>
> > Historical Board of Directors meetings held per year: 2019 (2), 2018 (3),
> > 2017 (4), 2016 (3)
>
> Thanks for showing that there needs to be change. How can AMSAT flourish
> when you are only having 2-3 meetings a year. Technology changes more often
> than that. This pattern illustrates that there is a need for more meetings
> of Directors that direct Officers. The local school PTA meets more often
> than this. Just because something happened a particular way in the past
> does NOT mean it was correct or a good practice. AMSAT seriously needs new
> guidance, thoughts and ideas. I have read where many members are frustrated
> that there is a lack of leadership. This can be changed by voting for new
> Directors and not re-electing incumbents who have been comfortable to have
> just a couple of meetings a year and rubber stamps whatever business may
> come before them. Members should consider that when casting a vote. If
> members want to continue to coast, that is their right but the coasting is
> downhill and eventually you can?t coast any further and the ride is over.
>
> Jeff WE4B
> http://we4bravo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From wa7fwf at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 00:12:31 2020
From: wa7fwf at gmail.com (Kevin)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 17:12:31 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <BD655DD9-60B8-4360-8949-8CA03FC5FD17@gmail.com>
References: <003f01d66aa6$838bc920$8aa35b60$@w5pfg.us>
	<BD655DD9-60B8-4360-8949-8CA03FC5FD17@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5f4f7b03-b1ba-d630-b135-98b90085c6c0@gmail.com>

Jeff,
 ??? Everything from your wannabe bod group is so negative, you can't 
just let anything go or keep it to what you might want to accomplish, 
every posting has to be disparaging to the current members and that is 
wrong.
With this much negativity I wonder how much vacuum do you people pull.

I have been? happy with the way AMSAT has been run, and as for the 
number of meetings, they only need to have enough to accomplish their 
goals.
Nothing is worse than having meetings just to say you had one.

Kevin WA7FWF 19623





On 8/4/2020 3:15 PM, Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>> Historical Board of Directors meetings held per year: 2019 (2), 2018 (3),
>> 2017 (4), 2016 (3)
> Thanks for showing that there needs to be change. How can AMSAT flourish when you are only having 2-3 meetings a year. Technology changes more often than that. This pattern illustrates that there is a need for more meetings of Directors that direct Officers. The local school PTA meets more often than this. Just because something happened a particular way in the past does NOT mean it was correct or a good practice. AMSAT seriously needs new guidance, thoughts and ideas. I have read where many members are frustrated that there is a lack of leadership. This can be changed by voting for new Directors and not re-electing incumbents who have been comfortable to have just a couple of meetings a year and rubber stamps whatever business may come before them. Members should consider that when casting a vote. If members want to continue to coast, that is their right but the coasting is downhill and eventually you can?t coast any further and the ride is over.
>
> Jeff WE4B
> http://we4bravo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From jeff30339 at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 00:22:53 2020
From: jeff30339 at gmail.com (Jeff Johns)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 19:22:53 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Soaring Upward to HEO
In-Reply-To: <CABzOSOq-bB0MXhnmPdx+8c+=5EzK_fHtkZyATUzRs9tLgBAd_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABzOSOq-bB0MXhnmPdx+8c+=5EzK_fHtkZyATUzRs9tLgBAd_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7D1FC4B4-9EEB-4E3C-A2E8-FE945FF13BF4@gmail.com>



> We have launched four satellites and a
> fifth is complete and awaiting launch.

AO92 ?seems? to be having some battery issues. The membership is still waiting on a failure analysis for AO95. HO107 went SK not long after being commissioned. Yes, I know, space is hard. Have we truly learned anything from our failures? 

> and revenue continue to increase after a long period of decline

If all is well, why did AMSAT take out a Government loan when many of us had friends and family that lost businesses because they truly needed a loan and couldn?t get one?

> In addition to satellite projects, we have launched a new, modern
> membership portal. Our members now have access to all issues of The AMSAT
> Journal from 2014 to the present and all of the AMSAT Symposium Proceedings
> since 1986 through this portal. More publications are coming soon.

Why did it take until 2020 to have this happen? People have been paying other organizations online for decades, online payment processing isn?t really cutting edge technology. I would never brag about being so far behind the times as having, just now, allowed members to access their info and join online. Also, it?s not really cutting edge to FTP docs onto a server and put them in a environment that requires a password. Seems to me that if it takes AMSAT until 2020 to have a ?membership portal? that it?s time for some new, progressive leadership. 

> If you want us to continue on the journey

I, personally, would prefer a journey of openness and transparency from leadership. I would prefer that AMSAT Directors have monthly (more if needed) meetings. I would prefer AMSAT leaders that won?t discriminate against members because they aren?t part of a certain clique. I have heard from so many members during this election cycle that feel the same way. 

Do I have all the answers? Not at all. Am I willing to have an open mind, listen to all members and be willing to devote an hour or two a month to meet and collaborate to move the organization forward, yes I am. This has NOT happened with legacy incumbents. Legacy incumbents have had their chance to affect change and have not done so. 

If members don?t want to continue on the status quo route and want openness and transparency then they should vote for myself, Howie DeFelice AB2S and Bob McGwier N4HY. 

Jeff WE4B 
http://we4bravo.com 

From tnetcenter at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 00:26:49 2020
From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 17:26:49 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <5f4f7b03-b1ba-d630-b135-98b90085c6c0@gmail.com>
References: <003f01d66aa6$838bc920$8aa35b60$@w5pfg.us>
	<BD655DD9-60B8-4360-8949-8CA03FC5FD17@gmail.com>
	<5f4f7b03-b1ba-d630-b135-98b90085c6c0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALx_moScOdUUw4giMtbx3LnOyv4wshTbcs10D6wHM_2mFLjZyA@mail.gmail.com>

This appears to be the way that the AMSAT-NA bod currently operates  --
they meet to show they had a meeting, then slip back into hiding!   How is
that in any way healthy for ANY organization???

NO 501(c)3 organization can LEGALLY operate that way and THAT is what the
contention seems to be all about!

Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 5:15 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> .....
> Nothing is worse than having meetings just to say you had one.
>
> Kevin WA7FWF 19623
>
>
>

From bruce at perens.com  Wed Aug  5 00:45:11 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 17:45:11 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CALx_moScOdUUw4giMtbx3LnOyv4wshTbcs10D6wHM_2mFLjZyA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003f01d66aa6$838bc920$8aa35b60$@w5pfg.us>
	<BD655DD9-60B8-4360-8949-8CA03FC5FD17@gmail.com>
	<5f4f7b03-b1ba-d630-b135-98b90085c6c0@gmail.com>
	<CALx_moScOdUUw4giMtbx3LnOyv4wshTbcs10D6wHM_2mFLjZyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOtE5ApdEiiu+_38-f=iBBFkEuA=kFJ3tnPpsS6oFtRuTw@mail.gmail.com>

Jeff,

Regardless of the outcome of the election, I think the time will come when
the tables are turned. We will be taking the high road when that happens.
But I personally will find it difficult to forget how these folks conducted
themselves.

Thanks

Bruce

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020, 5:35 PM Jeff Moore via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> This appears to be the way that the AMSAT-NA bod currently operates  --
> they meet to show they had a meeting, then slip back into hiding!   How is
> that in any way healthy for ANY organization???
>
> NO 501(c)3 organization can LEGALLY operate that way and THAT is what the
> contention seems to be all about!
>
> Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 5:15 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
> > .....
> > Nothing is worse than having meetings just to say you had one.
> >
> > Kevin WA7FWF 19623
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From framirezferrer at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 00:46:50 2020
From: framirezferrer at gmail.com (Fernando Ramirez)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 17:46:50 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2XEUW8rQ4ZYPieuvp5fNicuA4r2311Ke08JtRVa3SP70g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003f01d66aa6$838bc920$8aa35b60$@w5pfg.us>
	<BD655DD9-60B8-4360-8949-8CA03FC5FD17@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XEUW8rQ4ZYPieuvp5fNicuA4r2311Ke08JtRVa3SP70g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGHXx8jBUyTJt-eXBVREhv+qPQhf2MmQEVkQf2DO7angB6UVxA@mail.gmail.com>

Questions....

Michelle and Patrick, is there a need for an immediate meeting?

Jerry, Mark, Bruce, Drew, Tom, why don't any of you have joined two other
directors in calling for more meetings or an immediate one? I'm sure at
least two directors have items for the agenda.

Anyways, WE THE GENERAL MEMBERSHIP elected all of you to run the
organization! You decide to delegate your power to a group of officers (btw
some of you are part of that same group but that's a different discussion)
yet don't conduct regular business to supervise or discuss their work?

By the way it looks, seems like the BoD is working as a rubber stamp for
whatever the officers decide.

Fernando, KF7R

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 4:45 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> We've one meeting with reports and new business.
>
> The others were extremely short "emergency" meetings. One, to nominate and
> elect a new president after Joe Spier resigned. No new business
> entertained. No reports. No minutes approved.
>
> The other, solely to vote on the Covid loan. Multiple "reminders" that it
> was limited to 15 minutes. No new business entertained. No reports. No
> minutes approved.
>
> It's not healthy to run a membership organization this way.
>
> I have faith and optimism that it will get better with this election.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:17 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org
> >
> wrote:
>
> >
> > > Historical Board of Directors meetings held per year: 2019 (2), 2018
> (3),
> > > 2017 (4), 2016 (3)
> >
> > Thanks for showing that there needs to be change. How can AMSAT flourish
> > when you are only having 2-3 meetings a year. Technology changes more
> often
> > than that. This pattern illustrates that there is a need for more
> meetings
> > of Directors that direct Officers. The local school PTA meets more often
> > than this. Just because something happened a particular way in the past
> > does NOT mean it was correct or a good practice. AMSAT seriously needs
> new
> > guidance, thoughts and ideas. I have read where many members are
> frustrated
> > that there is a lack of leadership. This can be changed by voting for new
> > Directors and not re-electing incumbents who have been comfortable to
> have
> > just a couple of meetings a year and rubber stamps whatever business may
> > come before them. Members should consider that when casting a vote. If
> > members want to continue to coast, that is their right but the coasting
> is
> > downhill and eventually you can?t coast any further and the ride is over.
> >
> > Jeff WE4B
> > http://we4bravo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From ke9v at mac.com  Wed Aug  5 00:52:02 2020
From: ke9v at mac.com (Jeff Davis)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 20:52:02 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Soaring Upward to HEO
In-Reply-To: <7D1FC4B4-9EEB-4E3C-A2E8-FE945FF13BF4@gmail.com>
References: <CABzOSOq-bB0MXhnmPdx+8c+=5EzK_fHtkZyATUzRs9tLgBAd_A@mail.gmail.com>
	<7D1FC4B4-9EEB-4E3C-A2E8-FE945FF13BF4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <79F09867-2B72-4379-BF6F-2184A93BFFFC@mac.com>

This has to be one of the silliest arguments I?ve ever heard. It was a prudent business decision to take the money being offered during extraordinary times to keep the cash flowing. There was no doubt that the virus impacted income with the cancellation of Hamvention, an annual event where AMSAT has historically done pretty well signing up new members and raising funds.

Hundreds of thousands of perfectly ?healthy" corporations took those loans because it was a smart thing to do.

If you believe the few thousand dollars taken by AMSAT out of the hundreds of billions of dollars of government loans made available across America somehow kept your "friends and family" from getting their share of that pie then you haven?t a clue how that program worked.

This is the weakest of many weak arguments for replacing the current BoD after a good year of progress despite considerable headwinds from a couple of new Board members and their allies.

Jeff, KE9V


> On Aug 4, 2020, at 8:22 PM, Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> If all is well, why did AMSAT take out a Government loan when many of us had friends and family that lost businesses because they truly needed a loan and couldn?t get one?


From jfitzgerald at alum.wpi.edu  Wed Aug  5 01:12:03 2020
From: jfitzgerald at alum.wpi.edu (Joseph B. Fitzgerald)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 01:12:03 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Soaring Upward to HEO
In-Reply-To: <7D1FC4B4-9EEB-4E3C-A2E8-FE945FF13BF4@gmail.com>
References: <CABzOSOq-bB0MXhnmPdx+8c+=5EzK_fHtkZyATUzRs9tLgBAd_A@mail.gmail.com>,
	<7D1FC4B4-9EEB-4E3C-A2E8-FE945FF13BF4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DM5PR22MB0825ED0F3D1B3979EE643363874B0@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>



>Why did it take until 2020 to have this happen? People have 
>been paying other organizations online for decades, online 
>payment processing isn?t really cutting edge technology.

Lets get our facts straight ... we have been  joining and renewing on line for many years.

de KM1P Joe

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 01:35:45 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 21:35:45 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Soaring Upward to HEO
In-Reply-To: <CABzOSOq-bB0MXhnmPdx+8c+=5EzK_fHtkZyATUzRs9tLgBAd_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABzOSOq-bB0MXhnmPdx+8c+=5EzK_fHtkZyATUzRs9tLgBAd_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c-r1YPnhzPtkZ1BmWk9BJjfvr3HeS0BbA8+AEWToWJh8A@mail.gmail.com>

Paul (et al),

Thank you and the BOD members for all your hard work.  Your professional
campaign speaks volumes and your dedication to *always making AMSAT a
success *is the way it ought to be for all board members.

I am not thanking those BOD members, candidates or supporters that thrive
off of constantly bashing AMSAT publically (the org, its members or
directors) and that appear to survive off of drama, complaints, stirring
the pot, promoting other organizations whose apparent aim is to compete
with AMSAT or that feel the need to post letters from a legal
wizard-of-smart to apparently intimidate and/or drain AMSAT of funds that
would otherwise be going to engineering activities.  All of these things
appear to be hurting morale and tainting the organization, unnecessarily.
(oh, wait... I mean, Changing!).

The only thing i'm really not happy about is that AMSAT does not brag
enough about its accomplishments.  Even during the ARISSat days, I remember
thinking to myself; all this is going on, so many people are working on all
this and most HAMs I know have no clue.  I remember it being a logistics
nightmare amplified by the fact that it's a volunteer organization, but I
remember everyone having fun regardless.  The first SSTV images I pulled
down from space were flipping amazing! That's something i'll never forget.
>From what i'm observing on the bb, it does not seem like most of the
membership is very informed on the technical level of effort involved or
the sheer number of hours it takes to accomplish many of the things that
you all do.  My hats off to you and the team.

May the bigger nerds win,
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 7:04 PM Paul Stoetzer via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> The past five years rank with the best in AMSAT's history and we are
poised
> for much more success in the future. We have launched four satellites and
a
> fifth is complete and awaiting launch. We have partnered with university
> groups to place amateur transponders on their satellites. We are on a path
> back to HEO through our GOLF program with the first two satellites in this
> series, GOLF-TEE and GOLF-1, selected for launch opportunities. We
continue
> to support amateur radio on human spaceflight through ARISS and AREx. Our
> CubeSat Simulator project has been very successful in promoting AMSAT's
> mission of educational outreach. Due to these successes, membership
numbers
> and revenue continue to increase after a long period of decline from the
> late 1990s. After falling to around 3,000 members in the early part of
last
> decade, we are now up to about 4,000 members. Additionally, activity on
the
> amateur satellites has increased considerably over the past several years.
>
> In addition to satellite projects, we have launched a new, modern
> membership portal. Our members now have access to all issues of The AMSAT
> Journal from 2014 to the present and all of the AMSAT Symposium
Proceedings
> since 1986 through this portal. More publications are coming soon. We have
> also modernized and revitalized the field program with our new AMSAT
> Ambassador program.
>
> If you want us to continue on the journey Upward to HEO, vote for Dr. Mark
> Hammond, N8MH, Bruce Paige, KK5DO, and myself.
>
> 73,
>
> Paul, N8HM
> upwardtoheo.coom
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From stephennipper at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 01:34:03 2020
From: stephennipper at gmail.com (H. Stephen Nipper)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 19:34:03 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] Soaring Upward to HEO
In-Reply-To: <DM5PR22MB0825ED0F3D1B3979EE643363874B0@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CABzOSOq-bB0MXhnmPdx+8c+=5EzK_fHtkZyATUzRs9tLgBAd_A@mail.gmail.com>
	<7D1FC4B4-9EEB-4E3C-A2E8-FE945FF13BF4@gmail.com>
	<DM5PR22MB0825ED0F3D1B3979EE643363874B0@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAPf7+3oN2JLsAEa=-p3sO=BHVOypOODj+=DO6qBBFVadqDsMCQ@mail.gmail.com>

It comes down to saying something that is not the truth enough times and
people start believing it.

Stephen
N7DJX

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020, 7:13 PM Joseph B. Fitzgerald via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

>
>
> >Why did it take until 2020 to have this happen? People have
> >been paying other organizations online for decades, online
> >payment processing isn?t really cutting edge technology.
>
> Lets get our facts straight ... we have been  joining and renewing on line
> for many years.
>
> de KM1P Joe
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From marklhammond at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 03:26:06 2020
From: marklhammond at gmail.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 23:26:06 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-92 in L/v at 03:24utc 5 Aug 2020 for 24 hrs
Message-ID: <05d7bd4b-ab5c-af63-878d-f4ac114b48e1@gmail.com>

Happy L-band...good for 24 hrs unless it resets due to low batt/safe mode.

73,

-- 
Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]


From clintbradford at mac.com  Wed Aug  5 04:41:32 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 21:41:32 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Sat Show in Georgia (US) 8/15/2020
Message-ID: <320C72B8-96E5-4BEF-843F-31287DFE7D03@mac.com>

ARRL instructor and AMSAT-NA Ambassador Clint Bradford, K6LCS, 
will be presenting his "Working Amateur Satellites With Your HT? 
session at the Saturday, August 15, 2020 meeting of the Team Radio 
GA in southeast Georgia. The session will begin at 9AM Georgia time. 

Team Radio GA (TRGA) is a growing ARES / EmComm group, whose 
region covers the ARRL?s District 8 in Georgia. Led by Jerome Erickson 
KK1JE, TRGA was featured in the July, 2020 issue of the ARRL Georgia 
Section?s newsletter, ?Georgia on My Mind.?

The groups Jerome has organized focus on digital and emergency 
communications. Refreshingly, Jerome told the newsletter editor, ?I 
believe that the privilege to operate on the many frequencies we are 
granted we should make an effort to give back to our communities 
through radio communications.?

TRGA?s expanding Web site is ? http://trga.us/

Clint K6LCS has made it his mission in his amateur radio life to show 
hams that they really can work a few FM voice satellites with equipment 
they probably already own. To that end, he has given his presentation 
more than 100 times to audiences who genuinely desire to expand their 
ham experience - to clubs, conventions, and hamfests in North America 
and Canada. 

An attendee of Clint?s session at the club a couple years ago wrote:

"K6LCS gave a fantastic presentation on amateur satellites. 
It was most informative and entertaining. Clint's passion 
for the subject was evident, and I would imagine that the 
club members individually and or in a group will be eager 
to try satellite contacts in the near future.

?We will be using Zoom Video Communications to conduct our session,?
Clint advises. ?I would much rather be in a room, LIVE, with my audience, 
but it?s cheaper with Zoom than air fare to Savannah's International Airport ? ?

Clint always welcomes questions before his presentations. Leave him a 
voicemail at (909) 999-SATS or send email to: k6lcs at ham-sat.info

Clint?s satellite support site - www.work-sat.com

If you are in the southeast region of TRGA, you will be notified of the 
session?s Zoom meeting ID on TRGA's Web site. If you are not in the 
region and would like to attend, please send email to k6lcs at ham-sat.info 
for the meeting ID.

/end/

From amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net  Wed Aug  5 05:30:10 2020
From: amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net (Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK))
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 05:30:10 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CAGHXx8jBUyTJt-eXBVREhv+qPQhf2MmQEVkQf2DO7angB6UVxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003f01d66aa6$838bc920$8aa35b60$@w5pfg.us>
	<BD655DD9-60B8-4360-8949-8CA03FC5FD17@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XEUW8rQ4ZYPieuvp5fNicuA4r2311Ke08JtRVa3SP70g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jBUyTJt-eXBVREhv+qPQhf2MmQEVkQf2DO7angB6UVxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN6TEUctx+A1TpdQoeG8BLoCN1wOiqBax42-fnJXfOrOM_-3Gw@mail.gmail.com>

Fernando,

Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there
should have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of
March.

1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on legal
expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter AMSAT
President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.

2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in mid-March,
I asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary control
measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has not
discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it appears
AMSAT is in dire need of budgetary control measures.

3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling for
a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
ARISS-USA organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his notes
regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review them
with the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.

Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5
directors - including the two running for reelection this summer - have
joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but has
chosen not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other
issues, during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made
available to AMSAT members.

Thank you.




Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK






On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 12:49 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Questions....
>
> Michelle and Patrick, is there a need for an immediate meeting?
>
> Jerry, Mark, Bruce, Drew, Tom, why don't any of you have joined two other
> directors in calling for more meetings or an immediate one? I'm sure at
> least two directors have items for the agenda.
>
> Anyways, WE THE GENERAL MEMBERSHIP elected all of you to run the
> organization! You decide to delegate your power to a group of officers (btw
> some of you are part of that same group but that's a different discussion)
> yet don't conduct regular business to supervise or discuss their work?
>
> By the way it looks, seems like the BoD is working as a rubber stamp for
> whatever the officers decide.
>
> Fernando, KF7R
>
>
>

From ka3hdo at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 10:33:19 2020
From: ka3hdo at gmail.com (ka3hdo at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 06:33:19 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CAN6TEUctx+A1TpdQoeG8BLoCN1wOiqBax42-fnJXfOrOM_-3Gw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003f01d66aa6$838bc920$8aa35b60$@w5pfg.us>	<BD655DD9-60B8-4360-8949-8CA03FC5FD17@gmail.com>	<CACvjz2XEUW8rQ4ZYPieuvp5fNicuA4r2311Ke08JtRVa3SP70g@mail.gmail.com>	<CAGHXx8jBUyTJt-eXBVREhv+qPQhf2MmQEVkQf2DO7angB6UVxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN6TEUctx+A1TpdQoeG8BLoCN1wOiqBax42-fnJXfOrOM_-3Gw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <046b01d66b13$d6c391a0$844ab4e0$@gmail.com>

>>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling for a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new ARISS-USA organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.

I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to drag ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.   

In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to ARISS, and I have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to sign agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS name.  In the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS.  The functional change is that ARISS is assuming  for itself some of the tasks that AMSAT has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this donated support!)  The good working relationship that ARISS has had with AMSAT over the years is NOT changing.  For more information, read the press release on the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org (6th article down).  

One item I will remind all of you:  Getting into space is HARD.  Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission success.  Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in organizations and especially in space.  If you all continue these behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space missions of the future.  Space agencies and space corporations only want to work with folks that are dedicated to mission success.  I ask all to get over your grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see AMSAT lose space opportunities and space relationships that have taken decades to build.  

73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
ARISS-USA Executive Director
AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs


-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net> 
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM
To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer at gmail.com>; AMSAT <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?

Fernando,

Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there should have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of March.

1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on legal expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter AMSAT President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.

2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in mid-March, I asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary control measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has not discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it appears AMSAT is in dire need of budgetary control measures.

3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling for a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new ARISS-USA organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his notes regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review them with the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.

Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5 directors - including the two running for reelection this summer - have joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but has chosen not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other issues, during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made available to AMSAT members.

Thank you.

Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK



From n0jy at amsat.org  Wed Aug  5 18:00:46 2020
From: n0jy at amsat.org (Jerry Buxton)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 13:00:46 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <046b01d66b13$d6c391a0$844ab4e0$@gmail.com>
References: <003f01d66aa6$838bc920$8aa35b60$@w5pfg.us>
	<BD655DD9-60B8-4360-8949-8CA03FC5FD17@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XEUW8rQ4ZYPieuvp5fNicuA4r2311Ke08JtRVa3SP70g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jBUyTJt-eXBVREhv+qPQhf2MmQEVkQf2DO7angB6UVxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN6TEUctx+A1TpdQoeG8BLoCN1wOiqBax42-fnJXfOrOM_-3Gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<046b01d66b13$d6c391a0$844ab4e0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f39263f6-0122-06c5-2b91-722553c120e5@amsat.org>

On 8/5/2020 05:33, Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> One item I will remind all of you:  Getting into space is HARD.  Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission success.  Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in organizations and especially in space.  If you all continue these behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space missions of the future.  Space agencies and space corporations only want to work with folks that are dedicated to mission success.  I ask all to get over your grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see AMSAT lose space opportunities and space relationships that have taken decades to build.  
Well said Frank, and thank you!

The truth and importance of this cannot be overstated.? It is, quite
simply, spot on.

Perhaps my similar words to the Board and Officers have been taken with
less or little confidence in what I might know about this in my
experience as VPE.? I ask you then, please pay attention and respect to
Frank's words as drawn from his extensive experience with and within
space agencies and space corporations.

Even in my six years of AMSAT VPE history the respect that we have built
beginning with Fox-1A and continuing to this day with the GOLF
satellites is seen in NASA's high regard of AMSAT for being "by the
book" and reliable, with space corporations from the mission integrators
orchestrating integration and safe flight to the corporations wishing to
partner or help us in accessing space, and in working with government
agencies from the armed forces to NOAA/CRSRA imaging to FCC licensing.

AMSAT's standing is, as you may know from some of your own life/job
experiences, easily undone in a very short time by carelessness in our
conduct or in our commitments that is in contrast to the work we have
done that ultimately established and earned AMSAT their respect.

I join Frank here in again asking you all, please consider and
understand the severity and impact of your words and actions no matter
your title or work within AMSAT, support of AMSAT in being a member, or
candidacy for a position with AMSAT.

Thank you,

Jerry Buxton, N?JY


From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 18:12:33 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 11:12:33 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <046b01d66b13$d6c391a0$844ab4e0$@gmail.com>
References: <003f01d66aa6$838bc920$8aa35b60$@w5pfg.us>
	<BD655DD9-60B8-4360-8949-8CA03FC5FD17@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XEUW8rQ4ZYPieuvp5fNicuA4r2311Ke08JtRVa3SP70g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jBUyTJt-eXBVREhv+qPQhf2MmQEVkQf2DO7angB6UVxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN6TEUctx+A1TpdQoeG8BLoCN1wOiqBax42-fnJXfOrOM_-3Gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<046b01d66b13$d6c391a0$844ab4e0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2VzVHqFuHj5yF5Ak7_yEni=y3ohXTH+LBdjMdqt3jGA3g@mail.gmail.com>

Frank sums up the problems very well.

An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose
opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this and other
problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has happened.

We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.

We can't have teamwork without collaboration.

I am optimistic things can and will improve.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling for
> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new ARISS-USA
> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
>
> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to drag
> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
>
> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to ARISS, and I
> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to sign
> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS name.  In
> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS.  The functional
> change is that ARISS is assuming  for itself some of the tasks that AMSAT
> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this donated
> support!)  The good working relationship that ARISS has had with AMSAT over
> the years is NOT changing.  For more information, read the press release on
> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org (6th article
> down).
>
> One item I will remind all of you:  Getting into space is HARD.
> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission
> success.  Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in
> organizations and especially in space.  If you all continue these
> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space missions of
> the future.  Space agencies and space corporations only want to work with
> folks that are dedicated to mission success.  I ask all to get over your
> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see AMSAT lose
> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken decades to
> build.
>
> 73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
> ARISS-USA Executive Director
> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM
> To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer at gmail.com>; AMSAT <amsat-bb at amsat.org
> >
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
>
> Fernando,
>
> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there should
> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of March.
>
> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on legal
> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter AMSAT
> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
>
> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in mid-March, I
> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary control
> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has not
> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it appears AMSAT
> is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
>
> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling for a
> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new ARISS-USA
> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his notes
> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review them with
> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
>
> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5
> directors - including the two running for reelection this summer - have
> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but has chosen
> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other issues,
> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made available to
> AMSAT members.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From framirezferrer at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 18:38:58 2020
From: framirezferrer at gmail.com (Fernando Ramirez)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 11:38:58 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2VzVHqFuHj5yF5Ak7_yEni=y3ohXTH+LBdjMdqt3jGA3g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003f01d66aa6$838bc920$8aa35b60$@w5pfg.us>
	<BD655DD9-60B8-4360-8949-8CA03FC5FD17@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XEUW8rQ4ZYPieuvp5fNicuA4r2311Ke08JtRVa3SP70g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jBUyTJt-eXBVREhv+qPQhf2MmQEVkQf2DO7angB6UVxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN6TEUctx+A1TpdQoeG8BLoCN1wOiqBax42-fnJXfOrOM_-3Gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<046b01d66b13$d6c391a0$844ab4e0$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2VzVHqFuHj5yF5Ak7_yEni=y3ohXTH+LBdjMdqt3jGA3g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGHXx8jq9rozuKCj_P5VA99wbrehTOBD=fkRTUgXEtsdgy+1kg@mail.gmail.com>

I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be handled
very carefully.

For that same reason I think two separate legally established entities must
discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release. Probably
both AMSAT
and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of Understanding
establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on.

Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard
friendships)

73

Fernando KF7R

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Frank sums up the problems very well.
>
> An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose
> opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this and other
> problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has happened.
>
> We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
>
> We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
>
> I am optimistic things can and will improve.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling for
>> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new ARISS-USA
>> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
>>
>> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to drag
>> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
>>
>> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to ARISS, and I
>> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to sign
>> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS name.  In
>> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS.  The functional
>> change is that ARISS is assuming  for itself some of the tasks that AMSAT
>> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this donated
>> support!)  The good working relationship that ARISS has had with AMSAT over
>> the years is NOT changing.  For more information, read the press release on
>> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org (6th
>> article down).
>>
>> One item I will remind all of you:  Getting into space is HARD.
>> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission
>> success.  Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in
>> organizations and especially in space.  If you all continue these
>> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space missions of
>> the future.  Space agencies and space corporations only want to work with
>> folks that are dedicated to mission success.  I ask all to get over your
>> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see AMSAT lose
>> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken decades to
>> build.
>>
>> 73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
>> ARISS-USA Executive Director
>> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM
>> To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer at gmail.com>; AMSAT <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
>>
>> Fernando,
>>
>> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there should
>> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of March.
>>
>> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on legal
>> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter AMSAT
>> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
>>
>> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in mid-March, I
>> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary control
>> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has not
>> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it appears AMSAT
>> is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
>>
>> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling for a
>> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new ARISS-USA
>> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
>> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his notes
>> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review them with
>> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
>>
>> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5
>> directors - including the two running for reelection this summer - have
>> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but has chosen
>> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other issues,
>> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made available to
>> AMSAT members.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
>> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
>> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>

From bruce at perens.com  Wed Aug  5 19:01:47 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 12:01:47 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CAGHXx8jq9rozuKCj_P5VA99wbrehTOBD=fkRTUgXEtsdgy+1kg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003f01d66aa6$838bc920$8aa35b60$@w5pfg.us>
	<BD655DD9-60B8-4360-8949-8CA03FC5FD17@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XEUW8rQ4ZYPieuvp5fNicuA4r2311Ke08JtRVa3SP70g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jBUyTJt-eXBVREhv+qPQhf2MmQEVkQf2DO7angB6UVxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN6TEUctx+A1TpdQoeG8BLoCN1wOiqBax42-fnJXfOrOM_-3Gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<046b01d66b13$d6c391a0$844ab4e0$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2VzVHqFuHj5yF5Ak7_yEni=y3ohXTH+LBdjMdqt3jGA3g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jq9rozuKCj_P5VA99wbrehTOBD=fkRTUgXEtsdgy+1kg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOvcpz2-bkFs_NvrYxfNffUfTvABt3W474kscKVSix-fAQ@mail.gmail.com>

It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve themselves
publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other
organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it an AMSAT
issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue that,
and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made several
weeks ago.

In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a course
that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active
volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the membership
and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and
appropriate within the context of an election.

    Thanks

    Bruce

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be handled
> very carefully.
>
> For that same reason I think two separate legally established entities must
> discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release. Probably
> both AMSAT
> and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of Understanding
> establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on.
>
> Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard
> friendships)
>
> 73
>
> Fernando KF7R
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson <
> mountain.michelle at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Frank sums up the problems very well.
> >
> > An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose
> > opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this and
> other
> > problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has happened.
> >
> > We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
> >
> > We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
> >
> > I am optimistic things can and will improve.
> >
> > -Michelle W5NYV
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> >> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling
> for
> >> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
> ARISS-USA
> >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
> >>
> >> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to drag
> >> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
> >>
> >> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to ARISS, and
> I
> >> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to sign
> >> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS name.  In
> >> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS.  The
> functional
> >> change is that ARISS is assuming  for itself some of the tasks that
> AMSAT
> >> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this donated
> >> support!)  The good working relationship that ARISS has had with AMSAT
> over
> >> the years is NOT changing.  For more information, read the press
> release on
> >> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org (6th
> >> article down).
> >>
> >> One item I will remind all of you:  Getting into space is HARD.
> >> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission
> >> success.  Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in
> >> organizations and especially in space.  If you all continue these
> >> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space missions
> of
> >> the future.  Space agencies and space corporations only want to work
> with
> >> folks that are dedicated to mission success.  I ask all to get over your
> >> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see AMSAT lose
> >> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken decades to
> >> build.
> >>
> >> 73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
> >> ARISS-USA Executive Director
> >> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM
> >> To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer at gmail.com>; AMSAT <
> >> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
> >>
> >> Fernando,
> >>
> >> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there should
> >> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of March.
> >>
> >> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on legal
> >> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter AMSAT
> >> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
> >>
> >> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in mid-March, I
> >> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary control
> >> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has not
> >> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it appears
> AMSAT
> >> is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
> >>
> >> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling for
> a
> >> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
> ARISS-USA
> >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
> >> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his notes
> >> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review them
> with
> >> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
> >>
> >> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5
> >> directors - including the two running for reelection this summer - have
> >> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but has
> chosen
> >> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other issues,
> >> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made available
> to
> >> AMSAT members.
> >>
> >> Thank you.
> >>
> >> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> >> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> >> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> >> AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 20:01:19 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 16:01:19 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOvcpz2-bkFs_NvrYxfNffUfTvABt3W474kscKVSix-fAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003f01d66aa6$838bc920$8aa35b60$@w5pfg.us>
	<BD655DD9-60B8-4360-8949-8CA03FC5FD17@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XEUW8rQ4ZYPieuvp5fNicuA4r2311Ke08JtRVa3SP70g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jBUyTJt-eXBVREhv+qPQhf2MmQEVkQf2DO7angB6UVxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN6TEUctx+A1TpdQoeG8BLoCN1wOiqBax42-fnJXfOrOM_-3Gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<046b01d66b13$d6c391a0$844ab4e0$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2VzVHqFuHj5yF5Ak7_yEni=y3ohXTH+LBdjMdqt3jGA3g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jq9rozuKCj_P5VA99wbrehTOBD=fkRTUgXEtsdgy+1kg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvcpz2-bkFs_NvrYxfNffUfTvABt3W474kscKVSix-fAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c8si7gk8KinvEi9oVJQ6H_jB7NNK+vcbwArf5ZifVcFNg@mail.gmail.com>

Bruce,


All your statements about AMSAT leadership are a false narrative that you
and your crew are constantly perpetuating to discredit the organization,
for the sake of securing like-minded individuals on the BOD.  I can only
assume, with the intention of growing ORI?  I mean, you did say they got
three amateur radio in space grants, right?  Why weren't those pursued
through AMSAT?  What you're doing to AMSAT on the bb publicly is quite
sad, though no doubt, coordinated and with intent.  There are many of us
members (some vocal, many not) that really wish you would just stop, go
away and maybe work harder at growing ORI.  This action would directly help
preserve AMSATs integrity and give you a path to direct your effort and
energy more productively.  Think of the problems you could solve if you
were just not being held back..?  I know engineers personally that helped
developed that power supply for ARISS and they are really sharp, *involved
AMSAT members* that from my own observation have invested countless years
of their lives building kit for AMSAT.  I saw it and it's some amazing,
amazing, amazing hardware.  I speak per my observations of these
individuals, not for them.  Every volunteer organization gains and looses
members, all the time, depending on what's going on in their life, state of
the economy, etc...that's not surprising nor necessarily a reflection of
the work taking place within the organization, or its leadership.


Joseph Armbruster

KJ4JIO


On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve themselves
> publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other
> organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it an AMSAT
> issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue that,
> and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made several
> weeks ago.
>
> In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a course
> that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active
> volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the membership
> and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and
> appropriate within the context of an election.
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Bruce
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be
> handled
> > very carefully.
> >
> > For that same reason I think two separate legally established entities
> must
> > discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release. Probably
> > both AMSAT
> > and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of Understanding
> > establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on.
> >
> > Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard
> > friendships)
> >
> > 73
> >
> > Fernando KF7R
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson <
> > mountain.michelle at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Frank sums up the problems very well.
> > >
> > > An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose
> > > opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this and
> > other
> > > problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has happened.
> > >
> > > We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
> > >
> > > We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
> > >
> > > I am optimistic things can and will improve.
> > >
> > > -Michelle W5NYV
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <
> > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling
> > for
> > >> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
> > ARISS-USA
> > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
> > >>
> > >> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to drag
> > >> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
> > >>
> > >> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to ARISS,
> and
> > I
> > >> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to sign
> > >> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS name.
> In
> > >> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS.  The
> > functional
> > >> change is that ARISS is assuming  for itself some of the tasks that
> > AMSAT
> > >> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this
> donated
> > >> support!)  The good working relationship that ARISS has had with AMSAT
> > over
> > >> the years is NOT changing.  For more information, read the press
> > release on
> > >> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org (6th
> > >> article down).
> > >>
> > >> One item I will remind all of you:  Getting into space is HARD.
> > >> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission
> > >> success.  Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in
> > >> organizations and especially in space.  If you all continue these
> > >> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space missions
> > of
> > >> the future.  Space agencies and space corporations only want to work
> > with
> > >> folks that are dedicated to mission success.  I ask all to get over
> your
> > >> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see AMSAT
> lose
> > >> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken decades to
> > >> build.
> > >>
> > >> 73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
> > >> ARISS-USA Executive Director
> > >> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net>
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM
> > >> To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer at gmail.com>; AMSAT <
> > >> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > >> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
> > >>
> > >> Fernando,
> > >>
> > >> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there
> should
> > >> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of March.
> > >>
> > >> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on legal
> > >> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter AMSAT
> > >> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
> > >>
> > >> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in
> mid-March, I
> > >> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary control
> > >> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has not
> > >> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it appears
> > AMSAT
> > >> is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
> > >>
> > >> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling
> for
> > a
> > >> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
> > ARISS-USA
> > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
> > >> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his notes
> > >> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review them
> > with
> > >> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
> > >>
> > >> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5
> > >> directors - including the two running for reelection this summer -
> have
> > >> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but has
> > chosen
> > >> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other issues,
> > >> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made available
> > to
> > >> AMSAT members.
> > >>
> > >> Thank you.
> > >>
> > >> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> > >> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> > >> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > >> Opinions expressed
> > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> > >> AMSAT-NA.
> > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > >> Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >>
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
>
>
> --
> Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
> :-)
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From w7lrd at comcast.net  Wed Aug  5 20:18:48 2020
From: w7lrd at comcast.net (73 Bob W7LRD)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 13:18:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c8si7gk8KinvEi9oVJQ6H_jB7NNK+vcbwArf5ZifVcFNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003f01d66aa6$838bc920$8aa35b60$@w5pfg.us>
	<BD655DD9-60B8-4360-8949-8CA03FC5FD17@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XEUW8rQ4ZYPieuvp5fNicuA4r2311Ke08JtRVa3SP70g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jBUyTJt-eXBVREhv+qPQhf2MmQEVkQf2DO7angB6UVxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN6TEUctx+A1TpdQoeG8BLoCN1wOiqBax42-fnJXfOrOM_-3Gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<046b01d66b13$d6c391a0$844ab4e0$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2VzVHqFuHj5yF5Ak7_yEni=y3ohXTH+LBdjMdqt3jGA3g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jq9rozuKCj_P5VA99wbrehTOBD=fkRTUgXEtsdgy+1kg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvcpz2-bkFs_NvrYxfNffUfTvABt3W474kscKVSix-fAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c8si7gk8KinvEi9oVJQ6H_jB7NNK+vcbwArf5ZifVcFNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1460143099.49444.1596658728645@connect.xfinity.com>

Hi All-I really wish all this BS would stop.  You should all go out to the back shed and just deal with it.  I just want to play with satellites and all the goodies around them.  Take your interpersonal relationships and-------
73 Bob W7LRD

> On 08/05/2020 1:01 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
>  
> Bruce,
> 
> 
> All your statements about AMSAT leadership are a false narrative that you
> and your crew are constantly perpetuating to discredit the organization,
> for the sake of securing like-minded individuals on the BOD.  I can only
> assume, with the intention of growing ORI?  I mean, you did say they got
> three amateur radio in space grants, right?  Why weren't those pursued
> through AMSAT?  What you're doing to AMSAT on the bb publicly is quite
> sad, though no doubt, coordinated and with intent.  There are many of us
> members (some vocal, many not) that really wish you would just stop, go
> away and maybe work harder at growing ORI.  This action would directly help
> preserve AMSATs integrity and give you a path to direct your effort and
> energy more productively.  Think of the problems you could solve if you
> were just not being held back..?  I know engineers personally that helped
> developed that power supply for ARISS and they are really sharp, *involved
> AMSAT members* that from my own observation have invested countless years
> of their lives building kit for AMSAT.  I saw it and it's some amazing,
> amazing, amazing hardware.  I speak per my observations of these
> individuals, not for them.  Every volunteer organization gains and looses
> members, all the time, depending on what's going on in their life, state of
> the economy, etc...that's not surprising nor necessarily a reflection of
> the work taking place within the organization, or its leadership.
> 
> 
> Joseph Armbruster
> 
> KJ4JIO
> 
> 
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
> 
> > It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve themselves
> > publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other
> > organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it an AMSAT
> > issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue that,
> > and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made several
> > weeks ago.
> >
> > In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a course
> > that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active
> > volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the membership
> > and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and
> > appropriate within the context of an election.
> >
> >     Thanks
> >
> >     Bruce
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > > I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be
> > handled
> > > very carefully.
> > >
> > > For that same reason I think two separate legally established entities
> > must
> > > discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release. Probably
> > > both AMSAT
> > > and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of Understanding
> > > establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on.
> > >
> > > Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard
> > > friendships)
> > >
> > > 73
> > >
> > > Fernando KF7R
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson <
> > > mountain.michelle at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Frank sums up the problems very well.
> > > >
> > > > An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose
> > > > opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this and
> > > other
> > > > problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has happened.
> > > >
> > > > We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
> > > >
> > > > We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
> > > >
> > > > I am optimistic things can and will improve.
> > > >
> > > > -Michelle W5NYV
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <
> > > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling
> > > for
> > > >> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
> > > ARISS-USA
> > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
> > > >>
> > > >> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to drag
> > > >> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
> > > >>
> > > >> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to ARISS,
> > and
> > > I
> > > >> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to sign
> > > >> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS name.
> > In
> > > >> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS.  The
> > > functional
> > > >> change is that ARISS is assuming  for itself some of the tasks that
> > > AMSAT
> > > >> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this
> > donated
> > > >> support!)  The good working relationship that ARISS has had with AMSAT
> > > over
> > > >> the years is NOT changing.  For more information, read the press
> > > release on
> > > >> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org (6th
> > > >> article down).
> > > >>
> > > >> One item I will remind all of you:  Getting into space is HARD.
> > > >> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission
> > > >> success.  Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in
> > > >> organizations and especially in space.  If you all continue these
> > > >> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space missions
> > > of
> > > >> the future.  Space agencies and space corporations only want to work
> > > with
> > > >> folks that are dedicated to mission success.  I ask all to get over
> > your
> > > >> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see AMSAT
> > lose
> > > >> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken decades to
> > > >> build.
> > > >>
> > > >> 73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
> > > >> ARISS-USA Executive Director
> > > >> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net>
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM
> > > >> To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer at gmail.com>; AMSAT <
> > > >> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > > >> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
> > > >>
> > > >> Fernando,
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there
> > should
> > > >> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of March.
> > > >>
> > > >> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on legal
> > > >> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter AMSAT
> > > >> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
> > > >>
> > > >> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in
> > mid-March, I
> > > >> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary control
> > > >> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has not
> > > >> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it appears
> > > AMSAT
> > > >> is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
> > > >>
> > > >> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling
> > for
> > > a
> > > >> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
> > > ARISS-USA
> > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
> > > >> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his notes
> > > >> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review them
> > > with
> > > >> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
> > > >>
> > > >> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5
> > > >> directors - including the two running for reelection this summer -
> > have
> > > >> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but has
> > > chosen
> > > >> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other issues,
> > > >> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made available
> > > to
> > > >> AMSAT members.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thank you.
> > > >>
> > > >> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> > > >> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> > > >> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > > >> Opinions expressed
> > > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> > of
> > > >> AMSAT-NA.
> > > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > > program!
> > > >> Subscription settings:
> > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions
> > > expressed
> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
> > :-)
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From bruce at perens.com  Wed Aug  5 21:22:29 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 14:22:29 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c8si7gk8KinvEi9oVJQ6H_jB7NNK+vcbwArf5ZifVcFNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003f01d66aa6$838bc920$8aa35b60$@w5pfg.us>
	<BD655DD9-60B8-4360-8949-8CA03FC5FD17@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XEUW8rQ4ZYPieuvp5fNicuA4r2311Ke08JtRVa3SP70g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jBUyTJt-eXBVREhv+qPQhf2MmQEVkQf2DO7angB6UVxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN6TEUctx+A1TpdQoeG8BLoCN1wOiqBax42-fnJXfOrOM_-3Gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<046b01d66b13$d6c391a0$844ab4e0$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2VzVHqFuHj5yF5Ak7_yEni=y3ohXTH+LBdjMdqt3jGA3g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jq9rozuKCj_P5VA99wbrehTOBD=fkRTUgXEtsdgy+1kg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvcpz2-bkFs_NvrYxfNffUfTvABt3W474kscKVSix-fAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c8si7gk8KinvEi9oVJQ6H_jB7NNK+vcbwArf5ZifVcFNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOtJDfpEQ6kpY2hBvBoFFsAtO9OnhNBpCbmVDyAiEvFusw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 12:59 PM Joseph Armbruster <
josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:

> I can only assume, with the intention of growing ORI?
>

I am not on the ORI board and do not write their strategy. My only purpose
here is the advancement of Amateur Satellites, which in my sincere opinion
is not being carried out well by AMSAT at the moment.

Why weren't those [grants] pursued through AMSAT?
>

I believe a *large *personal donation meant for the ground-station project
was otherwise allocated and failed to reach the project. I was not directly
involved in the transaction, but have heard from the donor and the project.
Being able to direct donations where intended was one, but not the only,
impetus for the formation of ORI.

I work on many projects. Participating in the democratic process of AMSAT's
board election is just one. It is one where members are expected to
participate, Joseph, and your attempts to dissuade me continue to appear
undemocratic and in opposition to a member's right to express civil free
speech regarding the operation of the organization and the appropriateness
of its directors for re-election.

    Thanks

    Bruce

From johnbrier at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 21:33:24 2020
From: johnbrier at gmail.com (John Brier)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 17:33:24 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c8si7gk8KinvEi9oVJQ6H_jB7NNK+vcbwArf5ZifVcFNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003f01d66aa6$838bc920$8aa35b60$@w5pfg.us>
	<BD655DD9-60B8-4360-8949-8CA03FC5FD17@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XEUW8rQ4ZYPieuvp5fNicuA4r2311Ke08JtRVa3SP70g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jBUyTJt-eXBVREhv+qPQhf2MmQEVkQf2DO7angB6UVxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN6TEUctx+A1TpdQoeG8BLoCN1wOiqBax42-fnJXfOrOM_-3Gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<046b01d66b13$d6c391a0$844ab4e0$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2VzVHqFuHj5yF5Ak7_yEni=y3ohXTH+LBdjMdqt3jGA3g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jq9rozuKCj_P5VA99wbrehTOBD=fkRTUgXEtsdgy+1kg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvcpz2-bkFs_NvrYxfNffUfTvABt3W474kscKVSix-fAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c8si7gk8KinvEi9oVJQ6H_jB7NNK+vcbwArf5ZifVcFNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALn0fKOcJRfeWhfN4BkyzDAS7Hn0t=bYtYW0C2TCGGagaMr9-w@mail.gmail.com>

"wish you would just stop, go away and maybe work harder at growing ORI"

At this point it's clear there are big disagreements and issues that
must be worked out so wishing or suggesting people just go away seems
unhelpful. Might as well leave this point out as it just muddies the
waters around any reasonable points you have.

73, John Brier KG4AKV

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:08 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Bruce,
>
>
> All your statements about AMSAT leadership are a false narrative that you
> and your crew are constantly perpetuating to discredit the organization,
> for the sake of securing like-minded individuals on the BOD.  I can only
> assume, with the intention of growing ORI?  I mean, you did say they got
> three amateur radio in space grants, right?  Why weren't those pursued
> through AMSAT?  What you're doing to AMSAT on the bb publicly is quite
> sad, though no doubt, coordinated and with intent.  There are many of us
> members (some vocal, many not) that really wish you would just stop, go
> away and maybe work harder at growing ORI.  This action would directly help
> preserve AMSATs integrity and give you a path to direct your effort and
> energy more productively.  Think of the problems you could solve if you
> were just not being held back..?  I know engineers personally that helped
> developed that power supply for ARISS and they are really sharp, *involved
> AMSAT members* that from my own observation have invested countless years
> of their lives building kit for AMSAT.  I saw it and it's some amazing,
> amazing, amazing hardware.  I speak per my observations of these
> individuals, not for them.  Every volunteer organization gains and looses
> members, all the time, depending on what's going on in their life, state of
> the economy, etc...that's not surprising nor necessarily a reflection of
> the work taking place within the organization, or its leadership.
>
>
> Joseph Armbruster
>
> KJ4JIO
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
> > It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve themselves
> > publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other
> > organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it an AMSAT
> > issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue that,
> > and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made several
> > weeks ago.
> >
> > In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a course
> > that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active
> > volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the membership
> > and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and
> > appropriate within the context of an election.
> >
> >     Thanks
> >
> >     Bruce
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > > I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be
> > handled
> > > very carefully.
> > >
> > > For that same reason I think two separate legally established entities
> > must
> > > discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release. Probably
> > > both AMSAT
> > > and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of Understanding
> > > establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on.
> > >
> > > Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard
> > > friendships)
> > >
> > > 73
> > >
> > > Fernando KF7R
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson <
> > > mountain.michelle at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Frank sums up the problems very well.
> > > >
> > > > An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose
> > > > opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this and
> > > other
> > > > problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has happened.
> > > >
> > > > We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
> > > >
> > > > We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
> > > >
> > > > I am optimistic things can and will improve.
> > > >
> > > > -Michelle W5NYV
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <
> > > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling
> > > for
> > > >> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
> > > ARISS-USA
> > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
> > > >>
> > > >> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to drag
> > > >> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
> > > >>
> > > >> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to ARISS,
> > and
> > > I
> > > >> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to sign
> > > >> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS name.
> > In
> > > >> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS.  The
> > > functional
> > > >> change is that ARISS is assuming  for itself some of the tasks that
> > > AMSAT
> > > >> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this
> > donated
> > > >> support!)  The good working relationship that ARISS has had with AMSAT
> > > over
> > > >> the years is NOT changing.  For more information, read the press
> > > release on
> > > >> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org (6th
> > > >> article down).
> > > >>
> > > >> One item I will remind all of you:  Getting into space is HARD.
> > > >> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission
> > > >> success.  Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in
> > > >> organizations and especially in space.  If you all continue these
> > > >> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space missions
> > > of
> > > >> the future.  Space agencies and space corporations only want to work
> > > with
> > > >> folks that are dedicated to mission success.  I ask all to get over
> > your
> > > >> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see AMSAT
> > lose
> > > >> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken decades to
> > > >> build.
> > > >>
> > > >> 73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
> > > >> ARISS-USA Executive Director
> > > >> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net>
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM
> > > >> To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer at gmail.com>; AMSAT <
> > > >> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > > >> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
> > > >>
> > > >> Fernando,
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there
> > should
> > > >> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of March.
> > > >>
> > > >> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on legal
> > > >> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter AMSAT
> > > >> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
> > > >>
> > > >> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in
> > mid-March, I
> > > >> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary control
> > > >> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has not
> > > >> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it appears
> > > AMSAT
> > > >> is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
> > > >>
> > > >> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling
> > for
> > > a
> > > >> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
> > > ARISS-USA
> > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
> > > >> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his notes
> > > >> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review them
> > > with
> > > >> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
> > > >>
> > > >> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5
> > > >> directors - including the two running for reelection this summer -
> > have
> > > >> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but has
> > > chosen
> > > >> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other issues,
> > > >> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made available
> > > to
> > > >> AMSAT members.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thank you.
> > > >>
> > > >> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> > > >> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> > > >> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > > >> Opinions expressed
> > > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> > of
> > > >> AMSAT-NA.
> > > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > > program!
> > > >> Subscription settings:
> > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions
> > > expressed
> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
> > :-)
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From va3mw at portcredit.net  Wed Aug  5 22:28:27 2020
From: va3mw at portcredit.net (Michael Walker)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 18:28:27 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] XW-2D
Message-ID: <CA+33ts6uRu-dFH8mMGU--XOnxRqRmyCUnJXrramGjLFtchVkFg@mail.gmail.com>

All

Just to confirm that XW-2D is non-usable?

I seems to transpond for a few seconds and then goes mute for 10 seconds or
so?

Mike va3mw

From kb2mjeff at att.net  Wed Aug  5 23:18:42 2020
From: kb2mjeff at att.net (kb2mjeff at att.net)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 19:18:42 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] XW-2D
In-Reply-To: <CA+33ts6uRu-dFH8mMGU--XOnxRqRmyCUnJXrramGjLFtchVkFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+33ts6uRu-dFH8mMGU--XOnxRqRmyCUnJXrramGjLFtchVkFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <024e01d66b7e$c31d58a0$495809e0$@att.net>

It's in meteor scatter test mode ?

73 Jeff kb2m 

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Michael Walker via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 18:28
To: AMSAT <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] XW-2D

All

Just to confirm that XW-2D is non-usable?

I seems to transpond for a few seconds and then goes mute for 10 seconds or so?

Mike va3mw
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From yono_adisoemarta at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  5 23:38:33 2020
From: yono_adisoemarta at yahoo.com (Yono Adisoemarta)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 06:38:33 +0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] XW-2D
In-Reply-To: <024e01d66b7e$c31d58a0$495809e0$@att.net>
References: <024e01d66b7e$c31d58a0$495809e0$@att.net>
Message-ID: <31C304E4-F629-4E90-89E3-EE8C6B2C2A88@yahoo.com>


You have to time it perfectly to make a complete QSO.

73 de Yono - YD0NXX 

Sent from my iPhone

> -----Original Message-----
> 
> To: AMSAT <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: [amsat-bb] XW-2D
> 
> All
> 
> Just to confirm that XW-2D is non-usable?
> 
> I seems to transpond for a few seconds and then goes mute for 10 seconds or so?
> 
> Mike va3mw
> _______________________________________________
> 


From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 00:01:44 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 20:01:44 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CALn0fKOcJRfeWhfN4BkyzDAS7Hn0t=bYtYW0C2TCGGagaMr9-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003f01d66aa6$838bc920$8aa35b60$@w5pfg.us>
	<BD655DD9-60B8-4360-8949-8CA03FC5FD17@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XEUW8rQ4ZYPieuvp5fNicuA4r2311Ke08JtRVa3SP70g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jBUyTJt-eXBVREhv+qPQhf2MmQEVkQf2DO7angB6UVxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN6TEUctx+A1TpdQoeG8BLoCN1wOiqBax42-fnJXfOrOM_-3Gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<046b01d66b13$d6c391a0$844ab4e0$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2VzVHqFuHj5yF5Ak7_yEni=y3ohXTH+LBdjMdqt3jGA3g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jq9rozuKCj_P5VA99wbrehTOBD=fkRTUgXEtsdgy+1kg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvcpz2-bkFs_NvrYxfNffUfTvABt3W474kscKVSix-fAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c8si7gk8KinvEi9oVJQ6H_jB7NNK+vcbwArf5ZifVcFNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALn0fKOcJRfeWhfN4BkyzDAS7Hn0t=bYtYW0C2TCGGagaMr9-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c-ReTk1USAo6qnz3Lf2MvHch1Ab2MkWLz70s871jUmOkA@mail.gmail.com>

John,

I can see it being unhelpful, if you signed on with the guy that i'm asking
to go away :-)
ref: https://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html

Cheers,
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO


On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 5:33 PM John Brier <johnbrier at gmail.com> wrote:

> "wish you would just stop, go away and maybe work harder at growing ORI"
>
> At this point it's clear there are big disagreements and issues that
> must be worked out so wishing or suggesting people just go away seems
> unhelpful. Might as well leave this point out as it just muddies the
> waters around any reasonable points you have.
>
> 73, John Brier KG4AKV
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:08 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > Bruce,
> >
> >
> > All your statements about AMSAT leadership are a false narrative that you
> > and your crew are constantly perpetuating to discredit the organization,
> > for the sake of securing like-minded individuals on the BOD.  I can only
> > assume, with the intention of growing ORI?  I mean, you did say they got
> > three amateur radio in space grants, right?  Why weren't those pursued
> > through AMSAT?  What you're doing to AMSAT on the bb publicly is quite
> > sad, though no doubt, coordinated and with intent.  There are many of us
> > members (some vocal, many not) that really wish you would just stop, go
> > away and maybe work harder at growing ORI.  This action would directly
> help
> > preserve AMSATs integrity and give you a path to direct your effort and
> > energy more productively.  Think of the problems you could solve if you
> > were just not being held back..?  I know engineers personally that helped
> > developed that power supply for ARISS and they are really sharp,
> *involved
> > AMSAT members* that from my own observation have invested countless years
> > of their lives building kit for AMSAT.  I saw it and it's some amazing,
> > amazing, amazing hardware.  I speak per my observations of these
> > individuals, not for them.  Every volunteer organization gains and looses
> > members, all the time, depending on what's going on in their life, state
> of
> > the economy, etc...that's not surprising nor necessarily a reflection of
> > the work taking place within the organization, or its leadership.
> >
> >
> > Joseph Armbruster
> >
> > KJ4JIO
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve
> themselves
> > > publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other
> > > organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it an
> AMSAT
> > > issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue
> that,
> > > and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made several
> > > weeks ago.
> > >
> > > In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a
> course
> > > that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active
> > > volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the
> membership
> > > and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and
> > > appropriate within the context of an election.
> > >
> > >     Thanks
> > >
> > >     Bruce
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
> > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be
> > > handled
> > > > very carefully.
> > > >
> > > > For that same reason I think two separate legally established
> entities
> > > must
> > > > discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release. Probably
> > > > both AMSAT
> > > > and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of Understanding
> > > > establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on.
> > > >
> > > > Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard
> > > > friendships)
> > > >
> > > > 73
> > > >
> > > > Fernando KF7R
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson <
> > > > mountain.michelle at gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Frank sums up the problems very well.
> > > > >
> > > > > An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose
> > > > > opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this
> and
> > > > other
> > > > > problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has
> happened.
> > > > >
> > > > > We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
> > > > >
> > > > > We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am optimistic things can and will improve.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Michelle W5NYV
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <
> > > > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
> calling
> > > > for
> > > > >> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
> > > > ARISS-USA
> > > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to
> drag
> > > > >> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to
> ARISS,
> > > and
> > > > I
> > > > >> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to sign
> > > > >> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS
> name.
> > > In
> > > > >> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS.  The
> > > > functional
> > > > >> change is that ARISS is assuming  for itself some of the tasks
> that
> > > > AMSAT
> > > > >> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this
> > > donated
> > > > >> support!)  The good working relationship that ARISS has had with
> AMSAT
> > > > over
> > > > >> the years is NOT changing.  For more information, read the press
> > > > release on
> > > > >> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org (6th
> > > > >> article down).
> > > > >>
> > > > >> One item I will remind all of you:  Getting into space is HARD.
> > > > >> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission
> > > > >> success.  Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in
> > > > >> organizations and especially in space.  If you all continue these
> > > > >> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space
> missions
> > > > of
> > > > >> the future.  Space agencies and space corporations only want to
> work
> > > > with
> > > > >> folks that are dedicated to mission success.  I ask all to get
> over
> > > your
> > > > >> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see
> AMSAT
> > > lose
> > > > >> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken
> decades to
> > > > >> build.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
> > > > >> ARISS-USA Executive Director
> > > > >> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net>
> > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM
> > > > >> To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer at gmail.com>; AMSAT <
> > > > >> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > > > >> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Fernando,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there
> > > should
> > > > >> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of
> March.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on
> legal
> > > > >> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter
> AMSAT
> > > > >> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in
> > > mid-March, I
> > > > >> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary
> control
> > > > >> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has
> not
> > > > >> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it
> appears
> > > > AMSAT
> > > > >> is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
> calling
> > > for
> > > > a
> > > > >> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
> > > > ARISS-USA
> > > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
> > > > >> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his
> notes
> > > > >> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review
> them
> > > > with
> > > > >> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5
> > > > >> directors - including the two running for reelection this summer -
> > > have
> > > > >> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but
> has
> > > > chosen
> > > > >> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other
> issues,
> > > > >> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made
> available
> > > > to
> > > > >> AMSAT members.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Thank you.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> > > > >> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> > > > >> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> > > > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > > > >> Opinions expressed
> > > > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views
> > > of
> > > > >> AMSAT-NA.
> > > > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > > > program!
> > > > >> Subscription settings:
> > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> > > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > > Opinions
> > > > expressed
> > > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of
> > > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > > program!
> > > > Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
> eventually
> > > :-)
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > > expressed
> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From bruce at perens.com  Thu Aug  6 00:06:27 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 17:06:27 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c-ReTk1USAo6qnz3Lf2MvHch1Ab2MkWLz70s871jUmOkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003f01d66aa6$838bc920$8aa35b60$@w5pfg.us>
	<BD655DD9-60B8-4360-8949-8CA03FC5FD17@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XEUW8rQ4ZYPieuvp5fNicuA4r2311Ke08JtRVa3SP70g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jBUyTJt-eXBVREhv+qPQhf2MmQEVkQf2DO7angB6UVxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN6TEUctx+A1TpdQoeG8BLoCN1wOiqBax42-fnJXfOrOM_-3Gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<046b01d66b13$d6c391a0$844ab4e0$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2VzVHqFuHj5yF5Ak7_yEni=y3ohXTH+LBdjMdqt3jGA3g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jq9rozuKCj_P5VA99wbrehTOBD=fkRTUgXEtsdgy+1kg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvcpz2-bkFs_NvrYxfNffUfTvABt3W474kscKVSix-fAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c8si7gk8KinvEi9oVJQ6H_jB7NNK+vcbwArf5ZifVcFNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALn0fKOcJRfeWhfN4BkyzDAS7Hn0t=bYtYW0C2TCGGagaMr9-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-ReTk1USAo6qnz3Lf2MvHch1Ab2MkWLz70s871jUmOkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOu==4FG3RG9WpAJXV1v9j4ZBC85=wSBtdNGRMfWuPKgyQ@mail.gmail.com>

Joseph,

This is either ad-hominem or just incomprehensible. I know you are capable
of presenting credible arguments. Please endeavor to do so.

    Thanks

    Bruce

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:59 PM Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com>
wrote:

> John,
>
> I can see it being unhelpful, if you signed on with the guy that i'm
> asking to go away :-)
> ref: https://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html
>
> Cheers,
> Joseph Armbruster
> KJ4JIO
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 5:33 PM John Brier <johnbrier at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "wish you would just stop, go away and maybe work harder at growing ORI"
>>
>> At this point it's clear there are big disagreements and issues that
>> must be worked out so wishing or suggesting people just go away seems
>> unhelpful. Might as well leave this point out as it just muddies the
>> waters around any reasonable points you have.
>>
>> 73, John Brier KG4AKV
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:08 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB
>> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > Bruce,
>> >
>> >
>> > All your statements about AMSAT leadership are a false narrative that
>> you
>> > and your crew are constantly perpetuating to discredit the organization,
>> > for the sake of securing like-minded individuals on the BOD.  I can only
>> > assume, with the intention of growing ORI?  I mean, you did say they got
>> > three amateur radio in space grants, right?  Why weren't those pursued
>> > through AMSAT?  What you're doing to AMSAT on the bb publicly is quite
>> > sad, though no doubt, coordinated and with intent.  There are many of us
>> > members (some vocal, many not) that really wish you would just stop, go
>> > away and maybe work harder at growing ORI.  This action would directly
>> help
>> > preserve AMSATs integrity and give you a path to direct your effort and
>> > energy more productively.  Think of the problems you could solve if you
>> > were just not being held back..?  I know engineers personally that
>> helped
>> > developed that power supply for ARISS and they are really sharp,
>> *involved
>> > AMSAT members* that from my own observation have invested countless
>> years
>> > of their lives building kit for AMSAT.  I saw it and it's some amazing,
>> > amazing, amazing hardware.  I speak per my observations of these
>> > individuals, not for them.  Every volunteer organization gains and
>> looses
>> > members, all the time, depending on what's going on in their life,
>> state of
>> > the economy, etc...that's not surprising nor necessarily a reflection of
>> > the work taking place within the organization, or its leadership.
>> >
>> >
>> > Joseph Armbruster
>> >
>> > KJ4JIO
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve
>> themselves
>> > > publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other
>> > > organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it an
>> AMSAT
>> > > issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue
>> that,
>> > > and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made
>> several
>> > > weeks ago.
>> > >
>> > > In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a
>> course
>> > > that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active
>> > > volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the
>> membership
>> > > and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and
>> > > appropriate within the context of an election.
>> > >
>> > >     Thanks
>> > >
>> > >     Bruce
>> > >
>> > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
>> > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be
>> > > handled
>> > > > very carefully.
>> > > >
>> > > > For that same reason I think two separate legally established
>> entities
>> > > must
>> > > > discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release.
>> Probably
>> > > > both AMSAT
>> > > > and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of
>> Understanding
>> > > > establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on.
>> > > >
>> > > > Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard
>> > > > friendships)
>> > > >
>> > > > 73
>> > > >
>> > > > Fernando KF7R
>> > > >
>> > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson <
>> > > > mountain.michelle at gmail.com>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Frank sums up the problems very well.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose
>> > > > > opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this
>> and
>> > > > other
>> > > > > problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has
>> happened.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I am optimistic things can and will improve.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -Michelle W5NYV
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <
>> > > > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
>> calling
>> > > > for
>> > > > >> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
>> > > > ARISS-USA
>> > > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to
>> drag
>> > > > >> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to
>> ARISS,
>> > > and
>> > > > I
>> > > > >> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to
>> sign
>> > > > >> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS
>> name.
>> > > In
>> > > > >> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS.  The
>> > > > functional
>> > > > >> change is that ARISS is assuming  for itself some of the tasks
>> that
>> > > > AMSAT
>> > > > >> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this
>> > > donated
>> > > > >> support!)  The good working relationship that ARISS has had with
>> AMSAT
>> > > > over
>> > > > >> the years is NOT changing.  For more information, read the press
>> > > > release on
>> > > > >> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org
>> (6th
>> > > > >> article down).
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> One item I will remind all of you:  Getting into space is HARD.
>> > > > >> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space
>> mission
>> > > > >> success.  Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in
>> > > > >> organizations and especially in space.  If you all continue these
>> > > > >> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space
>> missions
>> > > > of
>> > > > >> the future.  Space agencies and space corporations only want to
>> work
>> > > > with
>> > > > >> folks that are dedicated to mission success.  I ask all to get
>> over
>> > > your
>> > > > >> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see
>> AMSAT
>> > > lose
>> > > > >> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken
>> decades to
>> > > > >> build.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> 73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
>> > > > >> ARISS-USA Executive Director
>> > > > >> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > > > >> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net>
>> > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM
>> > > > >> To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer at gmail.com>; AMSAT <
>> > > > >> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> > > > >> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Fernando,
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there
>> > > should
>> > > > >> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of
>> March.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on
>> legal
>> > > > >> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter
>> AMSAT
>> > > > >> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in
>> > > mid-March, I
>> > > > >> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary
>> control
>> > > > >> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has
>> not
>> > > > >> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it
>> appears
>> > > > AMSAT
>> > > > >> is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
>> calling
>> > > for
>> > > > a
>> > > > >> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
>> > > > ARISS-USA
>> > > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
>> > > > >> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his
>> notes
>> > > > >> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and
>> review them
>> > > > with
>> > > > >> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other
>> 5
>> > > > >> directors - including the two running for reelection this summer
>> -
>> > > have
>> > > > >> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but
>> has
>> > > > chosen
>> > > > >> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other
>> issues,
>> > > > >> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made
>> available
>> > > > to
>> > > > >> AMSAT members.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Thank you.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
>> > > > >> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
>> > > > >> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> _______________________________________________
>> > > > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>> available
>> > > > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> > > > >> Opinions expressed
>> > > > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>> views
>> > > of
>> > > > >> AMSAT-NA.
>> > > > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> > > > program!
>> > > > >> Subscription settings:
>> > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>> available
>> > > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> > > Opinions
>> > > > expressed
>> > > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>> views of
>> > > > AMSAT-NA.
>> > > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> > > program!
>> > > > Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
>> eventually
>> > > :-)
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions
>> > > expressed
>> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of
>> > > AMSAT-NA.
>> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > > Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>

-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)

From k7trkradio at charter.net  Wed Aug  5 22:05:14 2020
From: k7trkradio at charter.net (Ted Krempa)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 15:05:14 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Sat Show in Georgia (US) 8/15/2020
In-Reply-To: <320C72B8-96E5-4BEF-843F-31287DFE7D03@mac.com>
References: <320C72B8-96E5-4BEF-843F-31287DFE7D03@mac.com>
Message-ID: <00ab01d66b74$7fade710$7f09b530$@charter.net>

Just thinking out loud here: Which other AMSAT Ambassador puts out a 'press release' about themself??

73, Ted
K7TRK

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org] On Behalf Of Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 9:42 PM
To: AMSAT BB
Subject: [amsat-bb] Sat Show in Georgia (US) 8/15/2020

ARRL instructor and AMSAT-NA Ambassador Clint Bradford, K6LCS, 
will be presenting his "Working Amateur Satellites With Your HT? 
session at the Saturday, August 15, 2020 meeting of the Team Radio 
GA in southeast Georgia. The session will begin at 9AM Georgia time. 

Team Radio GA (TRGA) is a growing ARES / EmComm group, whose 
region covers the ARRL?s District 8 in Georgia. Led by Jerome Erickson 
KK1JE, TRGA was featured in the July, 2020 issue of the ARRL Georgia 
Section?s newsletter, ?Georgia on My Mind.?

The groups Jerome has organized focus on digital and emergency 
communications. Refreshingly, Jerome told the newsletter editor, ?I 
believe that the privilege to operate on the many frequencies we are 
granted we should make an effort to give back to our communities 
through radio communications.?

TRGA?s expanding Web site is ? http://trga.us/

Clint K6LCS has made it his mission in his amateur radio life to show 
hams that they really can work a few FM voice satellites with equipment 
they probably already own. To that end, he has given his presentation 
more than 100 times to audiences who genuinely desire to expand their 
ham experience - to clubs, conventions, and hamfests in North America 
and Canada. 

An attendee of Clint?s session at the club a couple years ago wrote:

"K6LCS gave a fantastic presentation on amateur satellites. 
It was most informative and entertaining. Clint's passion 
for the subject was evident, and I would imagine that the 
club members individually and or in a group will be eager 
to try satellite contacts in the near future.

?We will be using Zoom Video Communications to conduct our session,?
Clint advises. ?I would much rather be in a room, LIVE, with my audience, 
but it?s cheaper with Zoom than air fare to Savannah's International Airport ? ?

Clint always welcomes questions before his presentations. Leave him a 
voicemail at (909) 999-SATS or send email to: k6lcs at ham-sat.info

Clint?s satellite support site - www.work-sat.com

If you are in the southeast region of TRGA, you will be notified of the 
session?s Zoom meeting ID on TRGA's Web site. If you are not in the 
region and would like to attend, please send email to k6lcs at ham-sat.info 
for the meeting ID.

/end/
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From ke4al at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  6 01:48:45 2020
From: ke4al at yahoo.com (Robert Bankston)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 01:48:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Sat Show in Georgia (US) 8/15/2020
In-Reply-To: <00ab01d66b74$7fade710$7f09b530$@charter.net>
References: <320C72B8-96E5-4BEF-843F-31287DFE7D03@mac.com>
	<00ab01d66b74$7fade710$7f09b530$@charter.net>
Message-ID: <516744840.650355.1596678525330@mail.yahoo.com>



Ted,

Quite a few AMSAT Ambassadors publicize presentations, demonstrations, and events.

They are donating their time to promote amateur radio in space.? We should be inspired by their initiative and support them however we can.

Robert Bankston, KE4AL
Director, AMSAT Ambassadors


On Wednesday, August 5, 2020, 08:41:30 PM CDT, Ted Krempa via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 

Just thinking out loud here: Which other AMSAT Ambassador puts out a 'press release' about themself??

73, Ted
K7TRK

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 02:19:03 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 22:19:03 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOu==4FG3RG9WpAJXV1v9j4ZBC85=wSBtdNGRMfWuPKgyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003f01d66aa6$838bc920$8aa35b60$@w5pfg.us>
	<BD655DD9-60B8-4360-8949-8CA03FC5FD17@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XEUW8rQ4ZYPieuvp5fNicuA4r2311Ke08JtRVa3SP70g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jBUyTJt-eXBVREhv+qPQhf2MmQEVkQf2DO7angB6UVxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN6TEUctx+A1TpdQoeG8BLoCN1wOiqBax42-fnJXfOrOM_-3Gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<046b01d66b13$d6c391a0$844ab4e0$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2VzVHqFuHj5yF5Ak7_yEni=y3ohXTH+LBdjMdqt3jGA3g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jq9rozuKCj_P5VA99wbrehTOBD=fkRTUgXEtsdgy+1kg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvcpz2-bkFs_NvrYxfNffUfTvABt3W474kscKVSix-fAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c8si7gk8KinvEi9oVJQ6H_jB7NNK+vcbwArf5ZifVcFNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALn0fKOcJRfeWhfN4BkyzDAS7Hn0t=bYtYW0C2TCGGagaMr9-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-ReTk1USAo6qnz3Lf2MvHch1Ab2MkWLz70s871jUmOkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOu==4FG3RG9WpAJXV1v9j4ZBC85=wSBtdNGRMfWuPKgyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c_=rgQON5pGU8ANRHfp=AtjjL0_vRX=O+zXRag8iKWigA@mail.gmail.com>

John Brier is signed on to your campaign, per the reference link that I
provided... and, he's replying to me saying "well, Bruce shouldn't leave!"
to my response.  That's all i'm saying...


I don't understand what could make a group of people so disgruntled against
the AMSAT BOD or just generally against the organization, volunteers,
membership, etc... Negativity at this level never brings results.  I can
not understand why such a group would continue to be involved with the
organization.  Your thoughts and opinions do not intersect well with what I
have observed in the past of the volunteers or members that i've known or
my understanding of the present organization.  In addition, the
mis-characterizations of relationships and productivity is disheartening
and damaging.


Anyhow, for all of you bb-members who just say "aw, well, I just want to
discuss sats and no politics...."... understand that your vote will
directly affect how AMSAT coordinates, communicates, negotiates and
develops future satellite projects.  It is a serious vote for the future of
the organization in many, many ways.  It's a vote that should support the
engineers that put serious, difficult, hard work into many projects
to-date.  I suggest that you all reach out to the existing BOD members, all
of them and talk to them individually.  Read what they have written, talk
to the engineers, talk to the project leads, seek their opinions, etc...
ask who was writing software, designing hardware, working on schedules,
logistics, launch requirements, testing, etc... Who worked documentation,
etc... see who those people are and who they rely on and circle back to,
ask explicitly!  Ask who they are voting for.  Talk to previous board
members also, and ask about what the bottlenecks were, who were the
individuals getting stuff done.  It's not hard, just do not read the
opinions of others on the -bb (myself included).  Make an informed
decision, Skype, Zoom, jit.si, phone call, email, etc... whatever it
takes.  Make a serious effort to reach out and determine what is in the
best interest of AMSAT.  I know who is, in my opinion (Hammond, Paige,
Stoetzer) but everyone needs to resolve this individually.


73s & NM,

Joseph Armbruster

KJ4JIO

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 8:06 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:

> Joseph,
>
> This is either ad-hominem or just incomprehensible. I know you are capable
> of presenting credible arguments. Please endeavor to do so.
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Bruce
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:59 PM Joseph Armbruster <
> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> John,
>>
>> I can see it being unhelpful, if you signed on with the guy that i'm
>> asking to go away :-)
>> ref: https://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Joseph Armbruster
>> KJ4JIO
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 5:33 PM John Brier <johnbrier at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "wish you would just stop, go away and maybe work harder at growing ORI"
>>>
>>> At this point it's clear there are big disagreements and issues that
>>> must be worked out so wishing or suggesting people just go away seems
>>> unhelpful. Might as well leave this point out as it just muddies the
>>> waters around any reasonable points you have.
>>>
>>> 73, John Brier KG4AKV
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:08 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB
>>> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Bruce,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > All your statements about AMSAT leadership are a false narrative that
>>> you
>>> > and your crew are constantly perpetuating to discredit the
>>> organization,
>>> > for the sake of securing like-minded individuals on the BOD.  I can
>>> only
>>> > assume, with the intention of growing ORI?  I mean, you did say they
>>> got
>>> > three amateur radio in space grants, right?  Why weren't those pursued
>>> > through AMSAT?  What you're doing to AMSAT on the bb publicly is quite
>>> > sad, though no doubt, coordinated and with intent.  There are many of
>>> us
>>> > members (some vocal, many not) that really wish you would just stop, go
>>> > away and maybe work harder at growing ORI.  This action would directly
>>> help
>>> > preserve AMSATs integrity and give you a path to direct your effort and
>>> > energy more productively.  Think of the problems you could solve if you
>>> > were just not being held back..?  I know engineers personally that
>>> helped
>>> > developed that power supply for ARISS and they are really sharp,
>>> *involved
>>> > AMSAT members* that from my own observation have invested countless
>>> years
>>> > of their lives building kit for AMSAT.  I saw it and it's some amazing,
>>> > amazing, amazing hardware.  I speak per my observations of these
>>> > individuals, not for them.  Every volunteer organization gains and
>>> looses
>>> > members, all the time, depending on what's going on in their life,
>>> state of
>>> > the economy, etc...that's not surprising nor necessarily a reflection
>>> of
>>> > the work taking place within the organization, or its leadership.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Joseph Armbruster
>>> >
>>> > KJ4JIO
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve
>>> themselves
>>> > > publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other
>>> > > organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it an
>>> AMSAT
>>> > > issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue
>>> that,
>>> > > and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made
>>> several
>>> > > weeks ago.
>>> > >
>>> > > In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a
>>> course
>>> > > that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active
>>> > > volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the
>>> membership
>>> > > and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and
>>> > > appropriate within the context of an election.
>>> > >
>>> > >     Thanks
>>> > >
>>> > >     Bruce
>>> > >
>>> > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
>>> > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > > I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be
>>> > > handled
>>> > > > very carefully.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > For that same reason I think two separate legally established
>>> entities
>>> > > must
>>> > > > discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release.
>>> Probably
>>> > > > both AMSAT
>>> > > > and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of
>>> Understanding
>>> > > > establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard
>>> > > > friendships)
>>> > > >
>>> > > > 73
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Fernando KF7R
>>> > > >
>>> > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson <
>>> > > > mountain.michelle at gmail.com>
>>> > > > wrote:
>>> > > >
>>> > > > > Frank sums up the problems very well.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose
>>> > > > > opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this
>>> and
>>> > > > other
>>> > > > > problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has
>>> happened.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > I am optimistic things can and will improve.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > -Michelle W5NYV
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <
>>> > > > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
>>> calling
>>> > > > for
>>> > > > >> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the
>>> new
>>> > > > ARISS-USA
>>> > > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying
>>> to drag
>>> > > > >> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to
>>> ARISS,
>>> > > and
>>> > > > I
>>> > > > >> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to
>>> sign
>>> > > > >> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS
>>> name.
>>> > > In
>>> > > > >> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS.  The
>>> > > > functional
>>> > > > >> change is that ARISS is assuming  for itself some of the tasks
>>> that
>>> > > > AMSAT
>>> > > > >> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this
>>> > > donated
>>> > > > >> support!)  The good working relationship that ARISS has had
>>> with AMSAT
>>> > > > over
>>> > > > >> the years is NOT changing.  For more information, read the press
>>> > > > release on
>>> > > > >> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org
>>> (6th
>>> > > > >> article down).
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> One item I will remind all of you:  Getting into space is HARD.
>>> > > > >> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space
>>> mission
>>> > > > >> success.  Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster
>>> in
>>> > > > >> organizations and especially in space.  If you all continue
>>> these
>>> > > > >> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space
>>> missions
>>> > > > of
>>> > > > >> the future.  Space agencies and space corporations only want to
>>> work
>>> > > > with
>>> > > > >> folks that are dedicated to mission success.  I ask all to get
>>> over
>>> > > your
>>> > > > >> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see
>>> AMSAT
>>> > > lose
>>> > > > >> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken
>>> decades to
>>> > > > >> build.
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> 73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
>>> > > > >> ARISS-USA Executive Director
>>> > > > >> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
>>> > > > >> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net>
>>> > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM
>>> > > > >> To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer at gmail.com>; AMSAT <
>>> > > > >> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>>> > > > >> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> Fernando,
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and
>>> there
>>> > > should
>>> > > > >> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of
>>> March.
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on
>>> legal
>>> > > > >> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the
>>> letter AMSAT
>>> > > > >> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in
>>> > > mid-March, I
>>> > > > >> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary
>>> control
>>> > > > >> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert
>>> has not
>>> > > > >> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it
>>> appears
>>> > > > AMSAT
>>> > > > >> is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
>>> calling
>>> > > for
>>> > > > a
>>> > > > >> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
>>> > > > ARISS-USA
>>> > > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
>>> > > > >> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his
>>> notes
>>> > > > >> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and
>>> review them
>>> > > > with
>>> > > > >> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the
>>> other 5
>>> > > > >> directors - including the two running for reelection this
>>> summer -
>>> > > have
>>> > > > >> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but
>>> has
>>> > > > chosen
>>> > > > >> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other
>>> issues,
>>> > > > >> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made
>>> available
>>> > > > to
>>> > > > >> AMSAT members.
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> Thank you.
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
>>> > > > >> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
>>> > > > >> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> _______________________________________________
>>> > > > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>> available
>>> > > > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
>>> membership.
>>> > > > >> Opinions expressed
>>> > > > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>> views
>>> > > of
>>> > > > >> AMSAT-NA.
>>> > > > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
>>> satellite
>>> > > > program!
>>> > > > >> Subscription settings:
>>> > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>> available
>>> > > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> > > Opinions
>>> > > > expressed
>>> > > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>> views of
>>> > > > AMSAT-NA.
>>> > > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> > > program!
>>> > > > Subscription settings:
>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > > Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
>>> eventually
>>> > > :-)
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>> available
>>> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions
>>> > > expressed
>>> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>> views of
>>> > > AMSAT-NA.
>>> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> > > Subscription settings:
>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> > >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions expressed
>>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>> of AMSAT-NA.
>>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
> :-)
>

From johnbrier at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 02:55:35 2020
From: johnbrier at gmail.com (John Brier)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 22:55:35 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c_=rgQON5pGU8ANRHfp=AtjjL0_vRX=O+zXRag8iKWigA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003f01d66aa6$838bc920$8aa35b60$@w5pfg.us>
	<BD655DD9-60B8-4360-8949-8CA03FC5FD17@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XEUW8rQ4ZYPieuvp5fNicuA4r2311Ke08JtRVa3SP70g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jBUyTJt-eXBVREhv+qPQhf2MmQEVkQf2DO7angB6UVxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN6TEUctx+A1TpdQoeG8BLoCN1wOiqBax42-fnJXfOrOM_-3Gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<046b01d66b13$d6c391a0$844ab4e0$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2VzVHqFuHj5yF5Ak7_yEni=y3ohXTH+LBdjMdqt3jGA3g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jq9rozuKCj_P5VA99wbrehTOBD=fkRTUgXEtsdgy+1kg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvcpz2-bkFs_NvrYxfNffUfTvABt3W474kscKVSix-fAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c8si7gk8KinvEi9oVJQ6H_jB7NNK+vcbwArf5ZifVcFNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALn0fKOcJRfeWhfN4BkyzDAS7Hn0t=bYtYW0C2TCGGagaMr9-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-ReTk1USAo6qnz3Lf2MvHch1Ab2MkWLz70s871jUmOkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOu==4FG3RG9WpAJXV1v9j4ZBC85=wSBtdNGRMfWuPKgyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_=rgQON5pGU8ANRHfp=AtjjL0_vRX=O+zXRag8iKWigA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALn0fKOShuLdCtu+0GRFH0Jex5bv8-Ymva4oaGFxVLN98ON7Dg@mail.gmail.com>

Well you kind of answered your own question. You don't understand why a
group would be so disgruntled yet continue to be involved. Either they are
all trolls or they care and want to change things in a way they truly
believe is better. I don't doubt the incumbents have positive intentions
and mean no harm... Mostly they do positive things, but they have done a
few things I disagree with. You seem to be refusing to see why anyone could
feel that way. Until then I guess it makes sense to just want it to go away.

As for your second paragraph, of course if you ask all the people who have
been in charge for the last several years who did the things that got done,
they will all point at each other. That is not the point. The point is,
some people want to do new/different things that they haven't gotten an
adequate chance to do.

73, John Brier KG4AKV

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 22:17 Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> John Brier is signed on to your campaign, per the reference link that I
> provided... and, he's replying to me saying "well, Bruce shouldn't leave!"
> to my response.  That's all i'm saying...
>
>
> I don't understand what could make a group of people so disgruntled
> against the AMSAT BOD or just generally against the organization,
> volunteers, membership, etc... Negativity at this level never brings
> results.  I can not understand why such a group would continue to be
> involved with the organization.  Your thoughts and opinions do not
> intersect well with what I have observed in the past of the volunteers or
> members that i've known or my understanding of the present organization.
> In addition, the mis-characterizations of relationships and productivity is
> disheartening and damaging.
>
>
> Anyhow, for all of you bb-members who just say "aw, well, I just want to
> discuss sats and no politics...."... understand that your vote will
> directly affect how AMSAT coordinates, communicates, negotiates and
> develops future satellite projects.  It is a serious vote for the future of
> the organization in many, many ways.  It's a vote that should support the
> engineers that put serious, difficult, hard work into many projects
> to-date.  I suggest that you all reach out to the existing BOD members, all
> of them and talk to them individually.  Read what they have written, talk
> to the engineers, talk to the project leads, seek their opinions, etc...
> ask who was writing software, designing hardware, working on schedules,
> logistics, launch requirements, testing, etc... Who worked documentation,
> etc... see who those people are and who they rely on and circle back to,
> ask explicitly!  Ask who they are voting for.  Talk to previous board
> members also, and ask about what the bottlenecks were, who were the
> individuals getting stuff done.  It's not hard, just do not read the
> opinions of others on the -bb (myself included).  Make an informed
> decision, Skype, Zoom, jit.si, phone call, email, etc... whatever it
> takes.  Make a serious effort to reach out and determine what is in the
> best interest of AMSAT.  I know who is, in my opinion (Hammond, Paige,
> Stoetzer) but everyone needs to resolve this individually.
>
>
> 73s & NM,
>
> Joseph Armbruster
>
> KJ4JIO
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 8:06 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>
>> Joseph,
>>
>> This is either ad-hominem or just incomprehensible. I know you are
>> capable of presenting credible arguments. Please endeavor to do so.
>>
>>     Thanks
>>
>>     Bruce
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:59 PM Joseph Armbruster <
>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> John,
>>>
>>> I can see it being unhelpful, if you signed on with the guy that i'm
>>> asking to go away :-)
>>> ref: https://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>> KJ4JIO
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 5:33 PM John Brier <johnbrier at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "wish you would just stop, go away and maybe work harder at growing ORI"
>>>>
>>>> At this point it's clear there are big disagreements and issues that
>>>> must be worked out so wishing or suggesting people just go away seems
>>>> unhelpful. Might as well leave this point out as it just muddies the
>>>> waters around any reasonable points you have.
>>>>
>>>> 73, John Brier KG4AKV
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:08 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB
>>>> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Bruce,
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > All your statements about AMSAT leadership are a false narrative that
>>>> you
>>>> > and your crew are constantly perpetuating to discredit the
>>>> organization,
>>>> > for the sake of securing like-minded individuals on the BOD.  I can
>>>> only
>>>> > assume, with the intention of growing ORI?  I mean, you did say they
>>>> got
>>>> > three amateur radio in space grants, right?  Why weren't those pursued
>>>> > through AMSAT?  What you're doing to AMSAT on the bb publicly is quite
>>>> > sad, though no doubt, coordinated and with intent.  There are many of
>>>> us
>>>> > members (some vocal, many not) that really wish you would just stop,
>>>> go
>>>> > away and maybe work harder at growing ORI.  This action would
>>>> directly help
>>>> > preserve AMSATs integrity and give you a path to direct your effort
>>>> and
>>>> > energy more productively.  Think of the problems you could solve if
>>>> you
>>>> > were just not being held back..?  I know engineers personally that
>>>> helped
>>>> > developed that power supply for ARISS and they are really sharp,
>>>> *involved
>>>> > AMSAT members* that from my own observation have invested countless
>>>> years
>>>> > of their lives building kit for AMSAT.  I saw it and it's some
>>>> amazing,
>>>> > amazing, amazing hardware.  I speak per my observations of these
>>>> > individuals, not for them.  Every volunteer organization gains and
>>>> looses
>>>> > members, all the time, depending on what's going on in their life,
>>>> state of
>>>> > the economy, etc...that's not surprising nor necessarily a reflection
>>>> of
>>>> > the work taking place within the organization, or its leadership.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Joseph Armbruster
>>>> >
>>>> > KJ4JIO
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
>>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve
>>>> themselves
>>>> > > publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other
>>>> > > organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it
>>>> an AMSAT
>>>> > > issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue
>>>> that,
>>>> > > and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made
>>>> several
>>>> > > weeks ago.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a
>>>> course
>>>> > > that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active
>>>> > > volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the
>>>> membership
>>>> > > and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and
>>>> > > appropriate within the context of an election.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >     Thanks
>>>> > >
>>>> > >     Bruce
>>>> > >
>>>> > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
>>>> > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > > I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be
>>>> > > handled
>>>> > > > very carefully.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > For that same reason I think two separate legally established
>>>> entities
>>>> > > must
>>>> > > > discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release.
>>>> Probably
>>>> > > > both AMSAT
>>>> > > > and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of
>>>> Understanding
>>>> > > > establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now
>>>> on.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard
>>>> > > > friendships)
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > 73
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Fernando KF7R
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson <
>>>> > > > mountain.michelle at gmail.com>
>>>> > > > wrote:
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > Frank sums up the problems very well.
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could
>>>> lose
>>>> > > > > opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about
>>>> this and
>>>> > > > other
>>>> > > > > problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has
>>>> happened.
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > I am optimistic things can and will improve.
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > -Michelle W5NYV
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <
>>>> > > > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > >> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
>>>> calling
>>>> > > > for
>>>> > > > >> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the
>>>> new
>>>> > > > ARISS-USA
>>>> > > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying
>>>> to drag
>>>> > > > >> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to
>>>> ARISS,
>>>> > > and
>>>> > > > I
>>>> > > > >> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to
>>>> sign
>>>> > > > >> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS
>>>> name.
>>>> > > In
>>>> > > > >> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS.
>>>> The
>>>> > > > functional
>>>> > > > >> change is that ARISS is assuming  for itself some of the tasks
>>>> that
>>>> > > > AMSAT
>>>> > > > >> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this
>>>> > > donated
>>>> > > > >> support!)  The good working relationship that ARISS has had
>>>> with AMSAT
>>>> > > > over
>>>> > > > >> the years is NOT changing.  For more information, read the
>>>> press
>>>> > > > release on
>>>> > > > >> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org
>>>> (6th
>>>> > > > >> article down).
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >> One item I will remind all of you:  Getting into space is HARD.
>>>> > > > >> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space
>>>> mission
>>>> > > > >> success.  Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster
>>>> in
>>>> > > > >> organizations and especially in space.  If you all continue
>>>> these
>>>> > > > >> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space
>>>> missions
>>>> > > > of
>>>> > > > >> the future.  Space agencies and space corporations only want
>>>> to work
>>>> > > > with
>>>> > > > >> folks that are dedicated to mission success.  I ask all to get
>>>> over
>>>> > > your
>>>> > > > >> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see
>>>> AMSAT
>>>> > > lose
>>>> > > > >> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken
>>>> decades to
>>>> > > > >> build.
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >> 73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
>>>> > > > >> ARISS-USA Executive Director
>>>> > > > >> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
>>>> > > > >> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net>
>>>> > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM
>>>> > > > >> To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer at gmail.com>; AMSAT <
>>>> > > > >> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>>>> > > > >> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >> Fernando,
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and
>>>> there
>>>> > > should
>>>> > > > >> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end
>>>> of March.
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending
>>>> on legal
>>>> > > > >> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the
>>>> letter AMSAT
>>>> > > > >> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in
>>>> > > mid-March, I
>>>> > > > >> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary
>>>> control
>>>> > > > >> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert
>>>> has not
>>>> > > > >> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it
>>>> appears
>>>> > > > AMSAT
>>>> > > > >> is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
>>>> calling
>>>> > > for
>>>> > > > a
>>>> > > > >> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
>>>> > > > ARISS-USA
>>>> > > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
>>>> > > > >> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his
>>>> notes
>>>> > > > >> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and
>>>> review them
>>>> > > > with
>>>> > > > >> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the
>>>> other 5
>>>> > > > >> directors - including the two running for reelection this
>>>> summer -
>>>> > > have
>>>> > > > >> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings,
>>>> but has
>>>> > > > chosen
>>>> > > > >> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other
>>>> issues,
>>>> > > > >> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made
>>>> available
>>>> > > > to
>>>> > > > >> AMSAT members.
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >> Thank you.
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
>>>> > > > >> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
>>>> > > > >> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >> _______________________________________________
>>>> > > > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>>> available
>>>> > > > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
>>>> membership.
>>>> > > > >> Opinions expressed
>>>> > > > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
>>>> official views
>>>> > > of
>>>> > > > >> AMSAT-NA.
>>>> > > > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
>>>> satellite
>>>> > > > program!
>>>> > > > >> Subscription settings:
>>>> > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > _______________________________________________
>>>> > > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>>> available
>>>> > > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>> > > Opinions
>>>> > > > expressed
>>>> > > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>>> views of
>>>> > > > AMSAT-NA.
>>>> > > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>> > > program!
>>>> > > > Subscription settings:
>>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>> > > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > --
>>>> > > Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
>>>> eventually
>>>> > > :-)
>>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>>> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>>> available
>>>> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>> Opinions
>>>> > > expressed
>>>> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>>> views of
>>>> > > AMSAT-NA.
>>>> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>> program!
>>>> > > Subscription settings:
>>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>> > >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>> Opinions expressed
>>>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>>> of AMSAT-NA.
>>>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>> program!
>>>> > Subscription settings:
>>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
>> eventually :-)
>>
>

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  6 04:20:08 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2020 21:20:08 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Sat Show in Georgia (US) 8/15/2020
In-Reply-To: <516744840.650355.1596678525330@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <320C72B8-96E5-4BEF-843F-31287DFE7D03@mac.com>
	<00ab01d66b74$7fade710$7f09b530$@charter.net>
	<516744840.650355.1596678525330@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9fd85945-751a-421d-89a3-b4f758c11d05@yahoo.com>

Thanks Bob. That's exactly what I have seen.

The ambassadors are doing a very good job at presenting "amateur radio in space" seminars all around.

I for one, appreciate everything they do.

I tried to do one at Burning Man a number of years ago but reality raised its ugly head. Such is life in the real world.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Aug 5, 2020, 18:50, at 18:50, Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>
>Ted,
>
>Quite a few AMSAT Ambassadors publicize presentations, demonstrations,
>and events.
>
>They are donating their time to promote amateur radio in space.? We
>should be inspired by their initiative and support them however we can.
>
>Robert Bankston, KE4AL
>Director, AMSAT Ambassadors
>
>
>On Wednesday, August 5, 2020, 08:41:30 PM CDT, Ted Krempa via AMSAT-BB
><amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 
>
>Just thinking out loud here: Which other AMSAT Ambassador puts out a
>'press release' about themself??
>
>73, Ted
>K7TRK
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From w2ev at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  6 11:14:44 2020
From: w2ev at yahoo.com (Ev Tupis)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 11:14:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Election Timeline
References: <314663745.790827.1596712484639.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <314663745.790827.1596712484639@mail.yahoo.com>

Hello.

May I ask when the results from the election will be (or are scheduled to be) announced?

Ev, W2EV

From peter at magicbug.co.uk  Thu Aug  6 11:28:42 2020
From: peter at magicbug.co.uk (Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL))
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 12:28:42 +0100
Subject: [amsat-bb] XW-2D
In-Reply-To: <CA+33ts6uRu-dFH8mMGU--XOnxRqRmyCUnJXrramGjLFtchVkFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+33ts6uRu-dFH8mMGU--XOnxRqRmyCUnJXrramGjLFtchVkFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFvUaiqD4RVVStq3nsw9X6bMtXEdp_U+Guie7Zj-ResbN5ZzFQ@mail.gmail.com>

Correct XW-2C & D transponders seem to be intermittently on and off, you
can make QSOs via them but it's all about timing.

Peter, 2M0SQL

On Wed, 5 Aug 2020, 23:29 Michael Walker via AMSAT-BB, <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> All
>
> Just to confirm that XW-2D is non-usable?
>
> I seems to transpond for a few seconds and then goes mute for 10 seconds or
> so?
>
> Mike va3mw
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From brennanprice at verizon.net  Thu Aug  6 12:00:42 2020
From: brennanprice at verizon.net (Brennan Price)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 12:00:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Election Timeline
References: <1737673867.641725.1596715242794.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1737673867.641725.1596715242794@mail.yahoo.com>

Ev,
>From the instructions portion of the ballot:
"The ballots will be counted under the Secretary's supervision as soon after September 15 as is reasonably practicable."
The bylaws further specify that the result be announced by September 30.?
I am afraid I am unable to be more specific at this time, as the ability to conduct a standard scrutineering session may be impacted by facility and teller availability depending on the state of public health at the time. If I am unable to conduct a standard session, I have a plan to livestream my solo operation to provide the confidence that comes from multiple sets of eyes on the process. Most of such a stream would be of me opening face-down envelopes and placing their contents in a ballot box for subsequent counting. I hope it doesn't come to that. If it does, do not expect entertainment.?
73 de Brennan N4QX

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From clintbradford at mac.com  Thu Aug  6 12:36:16 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 05:36:16 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Sat Show in Georgia
Message-ID: <BA62D555-F5E2-4349-8289-952B330D61A5@mac.com>

>> Just thinking out loud here: Which other AMSAT Ambassador puts out a 'press release' about themself??

I prefer to call is a ?media alert,? Ted. Hitting appropriate ?target audiences."

It is all about ?effective communications.?

The local chamber of commerce is posting the announcement. You?ll see it on QRZ and eHam, too.

The bottom line: spread the gospel of AMSAT-NA and educate, AND try to get a couple ?first-time 
visitors? to the clubs I speak to. It is always wonderful to draw those potential new members for 
clubs.

Any other questions?

Clint Bradford K6LCS

PS My Calendar of upcoming presentations is at https://www.work-sat.com/hamjam-2018.html <https://www.work-sat.com/hamjam-2018.html>  for you!




From w2ev at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  6 13:19:26 2020
From: w2ev at yahoo.com (Ev Tupis)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 13:19:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Election Timeline
In-Reply-To: <1737673867.641725.1596715242794@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1737673867.641725.1596715242794.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1737673867.641725.1596715242794@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1085211730.824362.1596719966424@mail.yahoo.com>

Thank you, Brennan.

I'll now decide if all of this (quite unnecessary) on-list candidate-drama will drive me to unsubscribe until October or not.? Especially if you are not planning to make your potential live streamed task very entertaining. :- )


Kind regards,
Ev, W2EV



On Thursday, August 6, 2020, 08:08:50 AM EDT, Brennan Price via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 

Ev,
>From the instructions portion of the ballot:
"The ballots will be counted under the Secretary's supervision as soon after September 15 as is reasonably practicable."
The bylaws further specify that the result be announced by September 30.?
I am afraid I am unable to be more specific at this time, as the ability to conduct a standard scrutineering session may be impacted by facility and teller availability depending on the state of public health at the time. If I am unable to conduct a standard session, I have a plan to livestream my solo operation to provide the confidence that comes from multiple sets of eyes on the process. Most of such a stream would be of me opening face-down envelopes and placing their contents in a ballot box for subsequent counting. I hope it doesn't come to that. If it does, do not expect entertainment.?
73 de Brennan N4QX

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Thu Aug  6 14:35:43 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 09:35:43 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Sat Show in Georgia
In-Reply-To: <BA62D555-F5E2-4349-8289-952B330D61A5@mac.com>
References: <BA62D555-F5E2-4349-8289-952B330D61A5@mac.com>
Message-ID: <c87abb4b-1646-4678-0491-fff5c3033c78@pobox.com>

On 08/06/20 07:36, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> The bottom line: spread the gospel of AMSAT-NA and educate, AND try to get a couple ?first-time
> visitors? to the clubs I speak to. It is always wonderful to draw those potential new members for
> clubs.

Clint,

Keep it up! We need more evangelists to keep the hobby alive in the 
minds of the younger/newer crowd.

If you can collect feedback, that would help too. What are prospective 
hams looking for in the hobby, specifically for the satellite aspect of it?

73,

--- Zach
N0ZGO



From clintbradford at mac.com  Thu Aug  6 15:56:27 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 08:56:27 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Sat Show in Georgia
Message-ID: <C0FFCAF7-81CB-400D-96B9-6368F08C7102@mac.com>

>> If you can collect feedback, that would help too ?

Absolutely. The Q&A duringnd after are always enlightening!

Clint K6LCS


From kb2ysi at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 16:20:21 2020
From: kb2ysi at gmail.com (Don KB2YSI)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 12:20:21 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] GridMaster Award in GridTracker
Message-ID: <CAAJiE8MsD3o_eSkGUN168G5UGmnOuChvRzA+7m9kksKv9KxWug@mail.gmail.com>

N0TTL has added the GridMaster Award as an award layer in his GridTracker
software ( https://tagloomis.com/downloads/ ). It is awesome when
developers work with users to help make their software appeal to a broader
audience!

Once you get your log into the software, there are many ways to do this.
Press J and it will highlight in your QSL'ed grids for GMA.
Press B to get the grid #'s to be filled in.
Move the map to how you want it, press SHIFT+F5 to save the position. At
any time press F5 and it will return to that position!
Press K to take a screenshot.
If you forget something,  press F1 and a help screen with all of the key
presses is displayed; this is the #1 key press to remember!

I have posted my newest map here:
https://twitter.com/kb2ysi/status/1291408711987200002

If you happen to be an FT8 junkie and have not given the package a try, you
should check it out. There are many award layers available and a load of
features that I barely know how to utilize; check out the Callable Roster.

If you want to join the Discord server: https://discord.gg/j9Cv9XU


-- 
73,
Don KB2YSI
https://www.hamqth.com/kb2ysi

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 17:01:13 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 10:01:13 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Hack-a-Sat finals this weekend - AMSAT volunteers
	represented!
Message-ID: <CACvjz2XKXdvXQDpvB_CC-2wbrvm-=rOmK05biKOtB000Bwmxag@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings all,

There's a major event happening this weekend with a very large amateur
radio satellite component.

It's DEFCON. This year it's virtual and free to attend!

https://www.defcon.org/

DEFCON draws 30,000 people interested in improving technology and
themselves.

In the past, amateur radio and AMSAT have been well represented, presented,
and promoted at WiFi Village, Ham Radio Village, and Hardware Hacking
Village. It's been a real pleasure to present amateur satellite work at
DEFCON because the audience is receptive, educated, interested, and
supportive. Every time we have a booth or talk, the feedback is
overwhelmingly positive.

The largest US amateur radio licensing session on record happened at DEFCON
a couple of years ago. Amateur radio is alive and well.

This year, a number of AMSAT members have participated in another aspect of
DEFCON: The competitions!

There are a lot of competitions at DEFCON. They range from silly to
extremely difficult multi-day technical ordeals.

This year, the Air Force sponsored a high-end competition called
Hack-a-Sat.

For the qualifying event, amateur radio satellite service enthusiasts were
recruited. Our practical knowledge and interdisciplinary can-do spirit was
something that I thought would provide a unique advantage in a competition
ordinarily dominated by networking and computing information security
professionals.

This strategy worked. An interdisciplinary team finished 20th out of over
1500. You can find reports about it in the -BB archive.

Unfortunately, while 20th place is a remarkable achievement, that meant
that team missed out on the finals, as only the top 10 moved on.

However, I have some news! A number of us hams were recruited by teams that
finished in the finals. There will be several AMSAT engineering volunteers
participating in the final event this weekend. I'm on ADDVulcan along with
several others.

We are very excited to represent amateur radio in an event put on by the
Air Force to explore current and pressing security issues with satellite
technology.

For the finals, the teams each received a flatsat. The challenges in the
competition are both "virtual", meaning code only, and also "real", meaning
having to do with the flatsat hardware.

If you want to follow along, there will be coverage and content at
https://www.hackasat.com/

Some inside baseball: The team that won the semifinals is a famous
engineering competition team called PPP. They have withdrawn from the
finals because they also have a team in the "main" computing CTF at DEFCON,
and could not field both teams at once.

ADDVulcan finished 4th, and has strengthened their position through
recruiting and practice.

So, I think it's fair to say that amateur radio satellite service people
have a chance to contribute to a possible win at an international elite
competition. Everyone here should be very proud of what our license and
hobby enables.

Some of the things we've had to learn with respect to tools are Core Flight
System (NASA open source) and COSMOS, from Ball Aerospace. We've also been
given an opportunity to see what the Air Force believes are the 1) current
capabilities of the technical community and 2) what the threat models might
be.

I look forward to sharing what we learn and how we do with all of you.

These are the sorts of things I think AMSAT should be supporting and
sponsoring. It's well within our capabilities as a community to host
competitions like this one, where the goal of the challenges is to produce
quality open source work that solves particular problems. If you are
interested in doing something like this, then I'm here to help make it
happen. Get in touch and let's see what we can come up with!

-Michelle W5NYV

From robert.machale at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  6 20:11:44 2020
From: robert.machale at yahoo.com (Robert MacHale)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 20:11:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Hack-a-Sat finals this weekend - AMSAT
	volunteers	represented!
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2XKXdvXQDpvB_CC-2wbrvm-=rOmK05biKOtB000Bwmxag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2XKXdvXQDpvB_CC-2wbrvm-=rOmK05biKOtB000Bwmxag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <757520660.1076281.1596744704664@mail.yahoo.com>

VERY COOL - Michelle - glad to hear you are engaged with the hack-a-sat!

Robert MacHale
. KE6BLR FCC Licensed Radio Operator?
.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- THOMAS PAINE

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self. -- ERNEST HEMINGWAY






On Thursday, August 6, 2020, 10:25:17 AM PDT, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 





Greetings all,

There's a major event happening this weekend with a very large amateur
radio satellite component.

It's DEFCON. This year it's virtual and free to attend!

https://www.defcon.org/

DEFCON draws 30,000 people interested in improving technology and
themselves.

In the past, amateur radio and AMSAT have been well represented, presented,
and promoted at WiFi Village, Ham Radio Village, and Hardware Hacking
Village. It's been a real pleasure to present amateur satellite work at
DEFCON because the audience is receptive, educated, interested, and
supportive. Every time we have a booth or talk, the feedback is
overwhelmingly positive.

The largest US amateur radio licensing session on record happened at DEFCON
a couple of years ago. Amateur radio is alive and well.

This year, a number of AMSAT members have participated in another aspect of
DEFCON: The competitions!

There are a lot of competitions at DEFCON. They range from silly to
extremely difficult multi-day technical ordeals.

This year, the Air Force sponsored a high-end competition called
Hack-a-Sat.

For the qualifying event, amateur radio satellite service enthusiasts were
recruited. Our practical knowledge and interdisciplinary can-do spirit was
something that I thought would provide a unique advantage in a competition
ordinarily dominated by networking and computing information security
professionals.

This strategy worked. An interdisciplinary team finished 20th out of over
1500. You can find reports about it in the -BB archive.

Unfortunately, while 20th place is a remarkable achievement, that meant
that team missed out on the finals, as only the top 10 moved on.

However, I have some news! A number of us hams were recruited by teams that
finished in the finals. There will be several AMSAT engineering volunteers
participating in the final event this weekend. I'm on ADDVulcan along with
several others.

We are very excited to represent amateur radio in an event put on by the
Air Force to explore current and pressing security issues with satellite
technology.

For the finals, the teams each received a flatsat. The challenges in the
competition are both "virtual", meaning code only, and also "real", meaning
having to do with the flatsat hardware.

If you want to follow along, there will be coverage and content at
https://www.hackasat.com/

Some inside baseball: The team that won the semifinals is a famous
engineering competition team called PPP. They have withdrawn from the
finals because they also have a team in the "main" computing CTF at DEFCON,
and could not field both teams at once.

ADDVulcan finished 4th, and has strengthened their position through
recruiting and practice.

So, I think it's fair to say that amateur radio satellite service people
have a chance to contribute to a possible win at an international elite
competition. Everyone here should be very proud of what our license and
hobby enables.

Some of the things we've had to learn with respect to tools are Core Flight
System (NASA open source) and COSMOS, from Ball Aerospace. We've also been
given an opportunity to see what the Air Force believes are the 1) current
capabilities of the technical community and 2) what the threat models might
be.

I look forward to sharing what we learn and how we do with all of you.

These are the sorts of things I think AMSAT should be supporting and
sponsoring. It's well within our capabilities as a community to host
competitions like this one, where the goal of the challenges is to produce
quality open source work that solves particular problems. If you are
interested in doing something like this, then I'm here to help make it
happen. Get in touch and let's see what we can come up with!

-Michelle W5NYV
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From ve3hls at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 08:33:18 2020
From: ve3hls at gmail.com (Kenneth P Alexander)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 15:33:18 +0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CALn0fKOShuLdCtu+0GRFH0Jex5bv8-Ymva4oaGFxVLN98ON7Dg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003f01d66aa6$838bc920$8aa35b60$@w5pfg.us>
	<BD655DD9-60B8-4360-8949-8CA03FC5FD17@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XEUW8rQ4ZYPieuvp5fNicuA4r2311Ke08JtRVa3SP70g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jBUyTJt-eXBVREhv+qPQhf2MmQEVkQf2DO7angB6UVxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN6TEUctx+A1TpdQoeG8BLoCN1wOiqBax42-fnJXfOrOM_-3Gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<046b01d66b13$d6c391a0$844ab4e0$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2VzVHqFuHj5yF5Ak7_yEni=y3ohXTH+LBdjMdqt3jGA3g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jq9rozuKCj_P5VA99wbrehTOBD=fkRTUgXEtsdgy+1kg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvcpz2-bkFs_NvrYxfNffUfTvABt3W474kscKVSix-fAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c8si7gk8KinvEi9oVJQ6H_jB7NNK+vcbwArf5ZifVcFNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALn0fKOcJRfeWhfN4BkyzDAS7Hn0t=bYtYW0C2TCGGagaMr9-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-ReTk1USAo6qnz3Lf2MvHch1Ab2MkWLz70s871jUmOkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOu==4FG3RG9WpAJXV1v9j4ZBC85=wSBtdNGRMfWuPKgyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_=rgQON5pGU8ANRHfp=AtjjL0_vRX=O+zXRag8iKWigA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALn0fKOShuLdCtu+0GRFH0Jex5bv8-Ymva4oaGFxVLN98ON7Dg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPOM0dm-HUqaJ5JUhjMwCHLMBAmjgnkGSW=8DX4Bn8u0m3wxKA@mail.gmail.com>

Well said John.

In the mean time we're crippled with a President who refuses to discuss
these issues in the only forum we have where can express our views,
supposedly out of 'respect' for Amsat's membership.

It's the membership's prerogative to speak out when we don't like decisions
the Corporation makes, and it's the President's job to listen to the
members and engage in ongoing discussions...not issue corporate edicts and
then disengage from from the membership.

Ken Alexander,  VE3HLS
So Phisai, Thailand
Blog:  bueng-ken.com

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 10:05 John Brier via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Well you kind of answered your own question. You don't understand why a
> group would be so disgruntled yet continue to be involved. Either they are
> all trolls or they care and want to change things in a way they truly
> believe is better. I don't doubt the incumbents have positive intentions
> and mean no harm... Mostly they do positive things, but they have done a
> few things I disagree with. You seem to be refusing to see why anyone could
> feel that way. Until then I guess it makes sense to just want it to go
> away.
>
> As for your second paragraph, of course if you ask all the people who have
> been in charge for the last several years who did the things that got done,
> they will all point at each other. That is not the point. The point is,
> some people want to do new/different things that they haven't gotten an
> adequate chance to do.
>
> 73, John Brier KG4AKV
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 22:17 Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > John Brier is signed on to your campaign, per the reference link that I
> > provided... and, he's replying to me saying "well, Bruce shouldn't
> leave!"
> > to my response.  That's all i'm saying...
> >
> >
> > I don't understand what could make a group of people so disgruntled
> > against the AMSAT BOD or just generally against the organization,
> > volunteers, membership, etc... Negativity at this level never brings
> > results.  I can not understand why such a group would continue to be
> > involved with the organization.  Your thoughts and opinions do not
> > intersect well with what I have observed in the past of the volunteers or
> > members that i've known or my understanding of the present organization.
> > In addition, the mis-characterizations of relationships and productivity
> is
> > disheartening and damaging.
> >
> >
> > Anyhow, for all of you bb-members who just say "aw, well, I just want to
> > discuss sats and no politics...."... understand that your vote will
> > directly affect how AMSAT coordinates, communicates, negotiates and
> > develops future satellite projects.  It is a serious vote for the future
> of
> > the organization in many, many ways.  It's a vote that should support the
> > engineers that put serious, difficult, hard work into many projects
> > to-date.  I suggest that you all reach out to the existing BOD members,
> all
> > of them and talk to them individually.  Read what they have written, talk
> > to the engineers, talk to the project leads, seek their opinions, etc...
> > ask who was writing software, designing hardware, working on schedules,
> > logistics, launch requirements, testing, etc... Who worked documentation,
> > etc... see who those people are and who they rely on and circle back to,
> > ask explicitly!  Ask who they are voting for.  Talk to previous board
> > members also, and ask about what the bottlenecks were, who were the
> > individuals getting stuff done.  It's not hard, just do not read the
> > opinions of others on the -bb (myself included).  Make an informed
> > decision, Skype, Zoom, jit.si, phone call, email, etc... whatever it
> > takes.  Make a serious effort to reach out and determine what is in the
> > best interest of AMSAT.  I know who is, in my opinion (Hammond, Paige,
> > Stoetzer) but everyone needs to resolve this individually.
> >
> >
> > 73s & NM,
> >
> > Joseph Armbruster
> >
> > KJ4JIO
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 8:06 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Joseph,
> >>
> >> This is either ad-hominem or just incomprehensible. I know you are
> >> capable of presenting credible arguments. Please endeavor to do so.
> >>
> >>     Thanks
> >>
> >>     Bruce
> >>
> >> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:59 PM Joseph Armbruster <
> >> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> John,
> >>>
> >>> I can see it being unhelpful, if you signed on with the guy that i'm
> >>> asking to go away :-)
> >>> ref: https://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Joseph Armbruster
> >>> KJ4JIO
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 5:33 PM John Brier <johnbrier at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "wish you would just stop, go away and maybe work harder at growing
> ORI"
> >>>>
> >>>> At this point it's clear there are big disagreements and issues that
> >>>> must be worked out so wishing or suggesting people just go away seems
> >>>> unhelpful. Might as well leave this point out as it just muddies the
> >>>> waters around any reasonable points you have.
> >>>>
> >>>> 73, John Brier KG4AKV
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:08 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB
> >>>> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Bruce,
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > All your statements about AMSAT leadership are a false narrative
> that
> >>>> you
> >>>> > and your crew are constantly perpetuating to discredit the
> >>>> organization,
> >>>> > for the sake of securing like-minded individuals on the BOD.  I can
> >>>> only
> >>>> > assume, with the intention of growing ORI?  I mean, you did say they
> >>>> got
> >>>> > three amateur radio in space grants, right?  Why weren't those
> pursued
> >>>> > through AMSAT?  What you're doing to AMSAT on the bb publicly is
> quite
> >>>> > sad, though no doubt, coordinated and with intent.  There are many
> of
> >>>> us
> >>>> > members (some vocal, many not) that really wish you would just stop,
> >>>> go
> >>>> > away and maybe work harder at growing ORI.  This action would
> >>>> directly help
> >>>> > preserve AMSATs integrity and give you a path to direct your effort
> >>>> and
> >>>> > energy more productively.  Think of the problems you could solve if
> >>>> you
> >>>> > were just not being held back..?  I know engineers personally that
> >>>> helped
> >>>> > developed that power supply for ARISS and they are really sharp,
> >>>> *involved
> >>>> > AMSAT members* that from my own observation have invested countless
> >>>> years
> >>>> > of their lives building kit for AMSAT.  I saw it and it's some
> >>>> amazing,
> >>>> > amazing, amazing hardware.  I speak per my observations of these
> >>>> > individuals, not for them.  Every volunteer organization gains and
> >>>> looses
> >>>> > members, all the time, depending on what's going on in their life,
> >>>> state of
> >>>> > the economy, etc...that's not surprising nor necessarily a
> reflection
> >>>> of
> >>>> > the work taking place within the organization, or its leadership.
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Joseph Armbruster
> >>>> >
> >>>> > KJ4JIO
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
> >>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> >>>> > wrote:
> >>>> >
> >>>> > > It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve
> >>>> themselves
> >>>> > > publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other
> >>>> > > organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it
> >>>> an AMSAT
> >>>> > > issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue
> >>>> that,
> >>>> > > and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made
> >>>> several
> >>>> > > weeks ago.
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > > In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a
> >>>> course
> >>>> > > that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active
> >>>> > > volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the
> >>>> membership
> >>>> > > and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and
> >>>> > > appropriate within the context of an election.
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > >     Thanks
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > >     Bruce
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
> >>>> > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > > > I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must
> be
> >>>> > > handled
> >>>> > > > very carefully.
> >>>> > > >
> >>>> > > > For that same reason I think two separate legally established
> >>>> entities
> >>>> > > must
> >>>> > > > discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release.
> >>>> Probably
> >>>> > > > both AMSAT
> >>>> > > > and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of
> >>>> Understanding
> >>>> > > > establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now
> >>>> on.
> >>>> > > >
> >>>> > > > Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business
> safeguard
> >>>> > > > friendships)
> >>>> > > >
> >>>> > > > 73
> >>>> > > >
> >>>> > > > Fernando KF7R
> >>>> > > >
> >>>> > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson <
> >>>> > > > mountain.michelle at gmail.com>
> >>>> > > > wrote:
> >>>> > > >
> >>>> > > > > Frank sums up the problems very well.
> >>>> > > > >
> >>>> > > > > An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could
> >>>> lose
> >>>> > > > > opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about
> >>>> this and
> >>>> > > > other
> >>>> > > > > problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has
> >>>> happened.
> >>>> > > > >
> >>>> > > > > We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
> >>>> > > > >
> >>>> > > > > We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
> >>>> > > > >
> >>>> > > > > I am optimistic things can and will improve.
> >>>> > > > >
> >>>> > > > > -Michelle W5NYV
> >>>> > > > >
> >>>> > > > >
> >>>> > > > >
> >>>> > > > >
> >>>> > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <
> >>>> > > > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>>> > > > >
> >>>> > > > >> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
> >>>> calling
> >>>> > > > for
> >>>> > > > >> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the
> >>>> new
> >>>> > > > ARISS-USA
> >>>> > > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
> >>>> > > > >>
> >>>> > > > >> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying
> >>>> to drag
> >>>> > > > >> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
> >>>> > > > >>
> >>>> > > > >> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to
> >>>> ARISS,
> >>>> > > and
> >>>> > > > I
> >>>> > > > >> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to
> >>>> sign
> >>>> > > > >> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the
> ARISS
> >>>> name.
> >>>> > > In
> >>>> > > > >> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS.
> >>>> The
> >>>> > > > functional
> >>>> > > > >> change is that ARISS is assuming  for itself some of the
> tasks
> >>>> that
> >>>> > > > AMSAT
> >>>> > > > >> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for
> this
> >>>> > > donated
> >>>> > > > >> support!)  The good working relationship that ARISS has had
> >>>> with AMSAT
> >>>> > > > over
> >>>> > > > >> the years is NOT changing.  For more information, read the
> >>>> press
> >>>> > > > release on
> >>>> > > > >> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org
> >>>> (6th
> >>>> > > > >> article down).
> >>>> > > > >>
> >>>> > > > >> One item I will remind all of you:  Getting into space is
> HARD.
> >>>> > > > >> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space
> >>>> mission
> >>>> > > > >> success.  Infighting and back biting are a recipe for
> disaster
> >>>> in
> >>>> > > > >> organizations and especially in space.  If you all continue
> >>>> these
> >>>> > > > >> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space
> >>>> missions
> >>>> > > > of
> >>>> > > > >> the future.  Space agencies and space corporations only want
> >>>> to work
> >>>> > > > with
> >>>> > > > >> folks that are dedicated to mission success.  I ask all to
> get
> >>>> over
> >>>> > > your
> >>>> > > > >> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see
> >>>> AMSAT
> >>>> > > lose
> >>>> > > > >> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken
> >>>> decades to
> >>>> > > > >> build.
> >>>> > > > >>
> >>>> > > > >> 73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
> >>>> > > > >> ARISS-USA Executive Director
> >>>> > > > >> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
> >>>> > > > >>
> >>>> > > > >>
> >>>> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> > > > >> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net>
> >>>> > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM
> >>>> > > > >> To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer at gmail.com>; AMSAT <
> >>>> > > > >> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> >>>> > > > >> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
> >>>> > > > >>
> >>>> > > > >> Fernando,
> >>>> > > > >>
> >>>> > > > >> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and
> >>>> there
> >>>> > > should
> >>>> > > > >> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end
> >>>> of March.
> >>>> > > > >>
> >>>> > > > >> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending
> >>>> on legal
> >>>> > > > >> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the
> >>>> letter AMSAT
> >>>> > > > >> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
> >>>> > > > >>
> >>>> > > > >> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in
> >>>> > > mid-March, I
> >>>> > > > >> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary
> >>>> control
> >>>> > > > >> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert
> >>>> has not
> >>>> > > > >> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it
> >>>> appears
> >>>> > > > AMSAT
> >>>> > > > >> is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
> >>>> > > > >>
> >>>> > > > >> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
> >>>> calling
> >>>> > > for
> >>>> > > > a
> >>>> > > > >> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the
> new
> >>>> > > > ARISS-USA
> >>>> > > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
> >>>> > > > >> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather
> his
> >>>> notes
> >>>> > > > >> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and
> >>>> review them
> >>>> > > > with
> >>>> > > > >> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
> >>>> > > > >>
> >>>> > > > >> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the
> >>>> other 5
> >>>> > > > >> directors - including the two running for reelection this
> >>>> summer -
> >>>> > > have
> >>>> > > > >> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings,
> >>>> but has
> >>>> > > > chosen
> >>>> > > > >> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and
> other
> >>>> issues,
> >>>> > > > >> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made
> >>>> available
> >>>> > > > to
> >>>> > > > >> AMSAT members.
> >>>> > > > >>
> >>>> > > > >> Thank you.
> >>>> > > > >>
> >>>> > > > >> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> >>>> > > > >> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> >>>> > > > >> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
> >>>> > > > >>
> >>>> > > > >>
> >>>> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> >>>> > > > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> >>>> available
> >>>> > > > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
> >>>> membership.
> >>>> > > > >> Opinions expressed
> >>>> > > > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
> >>>> official views
> >>>> > > of
> >>>> > > > >> AMSAT-NA.
> >>>> > > > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
> >>>> satellite
> >>>> > > > program!
> >>>> > > > >> Subscription settings:
> >>>> > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>>> > > > >>
> >>>> > > > >
> >>>> > > > _______________________________________________
> >>>> > > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> >>>> available
> >>>> > > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
> membership.
> >>>> > > Opinions
> >>>> > > > expressed
> >>>> > > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> >>>> views of
> >>>> > > > AMSAT-NA.
> >>>> > > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
> satellite
> >>>> > > program!
> >>>> > > > Subscription settings:
> >>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>>> > > >
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > > --
> >>>> > > Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
> >>>> eventually
> >>>> > > :-)
> >>>> > > _______________________________________________
> >>>> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> >>>> available
> >>>> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >>>> Opinions
> >>>> > > expressed
> >>>> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> >>>> views of
> >>>> > > AMSAT-NA.
> >>>> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >>>> program!
> >>>> > > Subscription settings:
> >>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > _______________________________________________
> >>>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> >>>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >>>> Opinions expressed
> >>>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views
> >>>> of AMSAT-NA.
> >>>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >>>> program!
> >>>> > Subscription settings:
> >>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
> >> eventually :-)
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 11:41:36 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 07:41:36 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CAPOM0dm-HUqaJ5JUhjMwCHLMBAmjgnkGSW=8DX4Bn8u0m3wxKA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003f01d66aa6$838bc920$8aa35b60$@w5pfg.us>
	<BD655DD9-60B8-4360-8949-8CA03FC5FD17@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XEUW8rQ4ZYPieuvp5fNicuA4r2311Ke08JtRVa3SP70g@mail.gmail.com>
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	<CAN6TEUctx+A1TpdQoeG8BLoCN1wOiqBax42-fnJXfOrOM_-3Gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<046b01d66b13$d6c391a0$844ab4e0$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2VzVHqFuHj5yF5Ak7_yEni=y3ohXTH+LBdjMdqt3jGA3g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8jq9rozuKCj_P5VA99wbrehTOBD=fkRTUgXEtsdgy+1kg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvcpz2-bkFs_NvrYxfNffUfTvABt3W474kscKVSix-fAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c8si7gk8KinvEi9oVJQ6H_jB7NNK+vcbwArf5ZifVcFNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALn0fKOcJRfeWhfN4BkyzDAS7Hn0t=bYtYW0C2TCGGagaMr9-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-ReTk1USAo6qnz3Lf2MvHch1Ab2MkWLz70s871jUmOkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOu==4FG3RG9WpAJXV1v9j4ZBC85=wSBtdNGRMfWuPKgyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_=rgQON5pGU8ANRHfp=AtjjL0_vRX=O+zXRag8iKWigA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALn0fKOShuLdCtu+0GRFH0Jex5bv8-Ymva4oaGFxVLN98ON7Dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPOM0dm-HUqaJ5JUhjMwCHLMBAmjgnkGSW=8DX4Bn8u0m3wxKA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c-aPEA+WoiMrE40NMWF+UBU9p8kLBc299ntBdm-w5ZhXg@mail.gmail.com>

Kenneth,


It doesn't look like the president is crippling the organization, reference
amsat-bb email "Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020."


We're in the United States Ken and sadly a lot of people in the country are
attorney/sue-happy and some use that as a method/means of intimidation or
suppression of speech.  If you want to see how bad this can get here, look
up what Judy Munro-Leighton did to Brett Kavanaugh,when he was being
appointed to the supreme court.  The sad reality right now is that anyone
can sue anyone over anything and ruin everything someone has worked for,
over literally, Nothing.  On the flip side, anyone that fears any form of
legal action against them, has to lawyer-up, in an effort to learn the law,
gather information and protect themselves.


When members or BOD members start hiring attorneys to write kind letters to
other members (like the one posted publically to the -bb), that's not an
invitation to engage in productive discussion.  That's a clear threat of
legal action.  I mean, when's the last time You hired an attorney to have
them write a letter on your behalf?  I guess some people have time for that
nonsense...  I would venture to say that for most of the good
keep-your-head-down-and-hack kindof engineers, if they receive a letter
like that while working with at a volunteer group, they are more likely to
just want to quit and move on and do something else with their life, rather
than deal with the potential social/financial headache or having their
names dragged through the mud unnecessarily.  That just means it's more of
a push to get people to quit/leave... resulting in a potential loss of
talent for AMSAT.  Which sucks.


I haven't been involved in any of the BOD meetings but I can see how if
it's gotten to the point to where they need to walk on eggshells the entire
meeting over fear of legal actions, then the activity comes to a halt.
Then people on the opposing side turn around and say "Hoorah! Hoorah! The
board isn't doing anything, look at how bad they are!!"... When in fact,
that's not the case at all, it's all really a symptom, of another
problem... From a third-party perspective, that's what this all looks like
to me.


Joseph Armbruster

KJ4JIO



On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 4:33 AM Kenneth P Alexander <ve3hls at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well said John.
>
> In the mean time we're crippled with a President who refuses to discuss
> these issues in the only forum we have where can express our views,
> supposedly out of 'respect' for Amsat's membership.
>
> It's the membership's prerogative to speak out when we don't like
> decisions the Corporation makes, and it's the President's job to listen to
> the members and engage in ongoing discussions...not issue corporate edicts
> and then disengage from from the membership.
>
> Ken Alexander,  VE3HLS
> So Phisai, Thailand
> Blog:  bueng-ken.com
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 10:05 John Brier via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Well you kind of answered your own question. You don't understand why a
>> group would be so disgruntled yet continue to be involved. Either they are
>> all trolls or they care and want to change things in a way they truly
>> believe is better. I don't doubt the incumbents have positive intentions
>> and mean no harm... Mostly they do positive things, but they have done a
>> few things I disagree with. You seem to be refusing to see why anyone
>> could
>> feel that way. Until then I guess it makes sense to just want it to go
>> away.
>>
>> As for your second paragraph, of course if you ask all the people who have
>> been in charge for the last several years who did the things that got
>> done,
>> they will all point at each other. That is not the point. The point is,
>> some people want to do new/different things that they haven't gotten an
>> adequate chance to do.
>>
>> 73, John Brier KG4AKV
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 22:17 Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > John Brier is signed on to your campaign, per the reference link that I
>> > provided... and, he's replying to me saying "well, Bruce shouldn't
>> leave!"
>> > to my response.  That's all i'm saying...
>> >
>> >
>> > I don't understand what could make a group of people so disgruntled
>> > against the AMSAT BOD or just generally against the organization,
>> > volunteers, membership, etc... Negativity at this level never brings
>> > results.  I can not understand why such a group would continue to be
>> > involved with the organization.  Your thoughts and opinions do not
>> > intersect well with what I have observed in the past of the volunteers
>> or
>> > members that i've known or my understanding of the present organization.
>> > In addition, the mis-characterizations of relationships and
>> productivity is
>> > disheartening and damaging.
>> >
>> >
>> > Anyhow, for all of you bb-members who just say "aw, well, I just want to
>> > discuss sats and no politics...."... understand that your vote will
>> > directly affect how AMSAT coordinates, communicates, negotiates and
>> > develops future satellite projects.  It is a serious vote for the
>> future of
>> > the organization in many, many ways.  It's a vote that should support
>> the
>> > engineers that put serious, difficult, hard work into many projects
>> > to-date.  I suggest that you all reach out to the existing BOD members,
>> all
>> > of them and talk to them individually.  Read what they have written,
>> talk
>> > to the engineers, talk to the project leads, seek their opinions, etc...
>> > ask who was writing software, designing hardware, working on schedules,
>> > logistics, launch requirements, testing, etc... Who worked
>> documentation,
>> > etc... see who those people are and who they rely on and circle back to,
>> > ask explicitly!  Ask who they are voting for.  Talk to previous board
>> > members also, and ask about what the bottlenecks were, who were the
>> > individuals getting stuff done.  It's not hard, just do not read the
>> > opinions of others on the -bb (myself included).  Make an informed
>> > decision, Skype, Zoom, jit.si, phone call, email, etc... whatever it
>> > takes.  Make a serious effort to reach out and determine what is in the
>> > best interest of AMSAT.  I know who is, in my opinion (Hammond, Paige,
>> > Stoetzer) but everyone needs to resolve this individually.
>> >
>> >
>> > 73s & NM,
>> >
>> > Joseph Armbruster
>> >
>> > KJ4JIO
>> >
>> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 8:06 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Joseph,
>> >>
>> >> This is either ad-hominem or just incomprehensible. I know you are
>> >> capable of presenting credible arguments. Please endeavor to do so.
>> >>
>> >>     Thanks
>> >>
>> >>     Bruce
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:59 PM Joseph Armbruster <
>> >> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> John,
>> >>>
>> >>> I can see it being unhelpful, if you signed on with the guy that i'm
>> >>> asking to go away :-)
>> >>> ref: https://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html
>> >>>
>> >>> Cheers,
>> >>> Joseph Armbruster
>> >>> KJ4JIO
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 5:33 PM John Brier <johnbrier at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> "wish you would just stop, go away and maybe work harder at growing
>> ORI"
>> >>>>
>> >>>> At this point it's clear there are big disagreements and issues that
>> >>>> must be worked out so wishing or suggesting people just go away seems
>> >>>> unhelpful. Might as well leave this point out as it just muddies the
>> >>>> waters around any reasonable points you have.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 73, John Brier KG4AKV
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:08 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB
>> >>>> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > Bruce,
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > All your statements about AMSAT leadership are a false narrative
>> that
>> >>>> you
>> >>>> > and your crew are constantly perpetuating to discredit the
>> >>>> organization,
>> >>>> > for the sake of securing like-minded individuals on the BOD.  I can
>> >>>> only
>> >>>> > assume, with the intention of growing ORI?  I mean, you did say
>> they
>> >>>> got
>> >>>> > three amateur radio in space grants, right?  Why weren't those
>> pursued
>> >>>> > through AMSAT?  What you're doing to AMSAT on the bb publicly is
>> quite
>> >>>> > sad, though no doubt, coordinated and with intent.  There are many
>> of
>> >>>> us
>> >>>> > members (some vocal, many not) that really wish you would just
>> stop,
>> >>>> go
>> >>>> > away and maybe work harder at growing ORI.  This action would
>> >>>> directly help
>> >>>> > preserve AMSATs integrity and give you a path to direct your effort
>> >>>> and
>> >>>> > energy more productively.  Think of the problems you could solve if
>> >>>> you
>> >>>> > were just not being held back..?  I know engineers personally that
>> >>>> helped
>> >>>> > developed that power supply for ARISS and they are really sharp,
>> >>>> *involved
>> >>>> > AMSAT members* that from my own observation have invested countless
>> >>>> years
>> >>>> > of their lives building kit for AMSAT.  I saw it and it's some
>> >>>> amazing,
>> >>>> > amazing, amazing hardware.  I speak per my observations of these
>> >>>> > individuals, not for them.  Every volunteer organization gains and
>> >>>> looses
>> >>>> > members, all the time, depending on what's going on in their life,
>> >>>> state of
>> >>>> > the economy, etc...that's not surprising nor necessarily a
>> reflection
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> > the work taking place within the organization, or its leadership.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > Joseph Armbruster
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > KJ4JIO
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
>> >>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> >>>> > wrote:
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > > It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve
>> >>>> themselves
>> >>>> > > publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other
>> >>>> > > organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it
>> >>>> an AMSAT
>> >>>> > > issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to
>> pursue
>> >>>> that,
>> >>>> > > and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made
>> >>>> several
>> >>>> > > weeks ago.
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> > > In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a
>> >>>> course
>> >>>> > > that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active
>> >>>> > > volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the
>> >>>> membership
>> >>>> > > and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and
>> >>>> > > appropriate within the context of an election.
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> > >     Thanks
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> > >     Bruce
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
>> >>>> > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> > > > I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters
>> must be
>> >>>> > > handled
>> >>>> > > > very carefully.
>> >>>> > > >
>> >>>> > > > For that same reason I think two separate legally established
>> >>>> entities
>> >>>> > > must
>> >>>> > > > discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release.
>> >>>> Probably
>> >>>> > > > both AMSAT
>> >>>> > > > and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of
>> >>>> Understanding
>> >>>> > > > establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now
>> >>>> on.
>> >>>> > > >
>> >>>> > > > Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business
>> safeguard
>> >>>> > > > friendships)
>> >>>> > > >
>> >>>> > > > 73
>> >>>> > > >
>> >>>> > > > Fernando KF7R
>> >>>> > > >
>> >>>> > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson <
>> >>>> > > > mountain.michelle at gmail.com>
>> >>>> > > > wrote:
>> >>>> > > >
>> >>>> > > > > Frank sums up the problems very well.
>> >>>> > > > >
>> >>>> > > > > An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could
>> >>>> lose
>> >>>> > > > > opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about
>> >>>> this and
>> >>>> > > > other
>> >>>> > > > > problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has
>> >>>> happened.
>> >>>> > > > >
>> >>>> > > > > We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
>> >>>> > > > >
>> >>>> > > > > We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
>> >>>> > > > >
>> >>>> > > > > I am optimistic things can and will improve.
>> >>>> > > > >
>> >>>> > > > > -Michelle W5NYV
>> >>>> > > > >
>> >>>> > > > >
>> >>>> > > > >
>> >>>> > > > >
>> >>>> > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <
>> >>>> > > > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> >>>> > > > >
>> >>>> > > > >> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13
>> June,
>> >>>> calling
>> >>>> > > > for
>> >>>> > > > >> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of
>> the
>> >>>> new
>> >>>> > > > ARISS-USA
>> >>>> > > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
>> >>>> > > > >>
>> >>>> > > > >> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop
>> trying
>> >>>> to drag
>> >>>> > > > >> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political
>> battle.
>> >>>> > > > >>
>> >>>> > > > >> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to
>> >>>> ARISS,
>> >>>> > > and
>> >>>> > > > I
>> >>>> > > > >> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS
>> to
>> >>>> sign
>> >>>> > > > >> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the
>> ARISS
>> >>>> name.
>> >>>> > > In
>> >>>> > > > >> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS.
>> >>>> The
>> >>>> > > > functional
>> >>>> > > > >> change is that ARISS is assuming  for itself some of the
>> tasks
>> >>>> that
>> >>>> > > > AMSAT
>> >>>> > > > >> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for
>> this
>> >>>> > > donated
>> >>>> > > > >> support!)  The good working relationship that ARISS has had
>> >>>> with AMSAT
>> >>>> > > > over
>> >>>> > > > >> the years is NOT changing.  For more information, read the
>> >>>> press
>> >>>> > > > release on
>> >>>> > > > >> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site
>> www.ariss.org
>> >>>> (6th
>> >>>> > > > >> article down).
>> >>>> > > > >>
>> >>>> > > > >> One item I will remind all of you:  Getting into space is
>> HARD.
>> >>>> > > > >> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space
>> >>>> mission
>> >>>> > > > >> success.  Infighting and back biting are a recipe for
>> disaster
>> >>>> in
>> >>>> > > > >> organizations and especially in space.  If you all continue
>> >>>> these
>> >>>> > > > >> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your
>> space
>> >>>> missions
>> >>>> > > > of
>> >>>> > > > >> the future.  Space agencies and space corporations only want
>> >>>> to work
>> >>>> > > > with
>> >>>> > > > >> folks that are dedicated to mission success.  I ask all to
>> get
>> >>>> over
>> >>>> > > your
>> >>>> > > > >> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to
>> see
>> >>>> AMSAT
>> >>>> > > lose
>> >>>> > > > >> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken
>> >>>> decades to
>> >>>> > > > >> build.
>> >>>> > > > >>
>> >>>> > > > >> 73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
>> >>>> > > > >> ARISS-USA Executive Director
>> >>>> > > > >> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
>> >>>> > > > >>
>> >>>> > > > >>
>> >>>> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> > > > >> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net
>> >
>> >>>> > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM
>> >>>> > > > >> To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer at gmail.com>; AMSAT <
>> >>>> > > > >> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> >>>> > > > >> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
>> >>>> > > > >>
>> >>>> > > > >> Fernando,
>> >>>> > > > >>
>> >>>> > > > >> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and
>> >>>> there
>> >>>> > > should
>> >>>> > > > >> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end
>> >>>> of March.
>> >>>> > > > >>
>> >>>> > > > >> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending
>> >>>> on legal
>> >>>> > > > >> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the
>> >>>> letter AMSAT
>> >>>> > > > >> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
>> >>>> > > > >>
>> >>>> > > > >> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in
>> >>>> > > mid-March, I
>> >>>> > > > >> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and
>> budgetary
>> >>>> control
>> >>>> > > > >> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert
>> >>>> has not
>> >>>> > > > >> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending,
>> it
>> >>>> appears
>> >>>> > > > AMSAT
>> >>>> > > > >> is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
>> >>>> > > > >>
>> >>>> > > > >> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
>> >>>> calling
>> >>>> > > for
>> >>>> > > > a
>> >>>> > > > >> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the
>> new
>> >>>> > > > ARISS-USA
>> >>>> > > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
>> >>>> > > > >> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather
>> his
>> >>>> notes
>> >>>> > > > >> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and
>> >>>> review them
>> >>>> > > > with
>> >>>> > > > >> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
>> >>>> > > > >>
>> >>>> > > > >> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the
>> >>>> other 5
>> >>>> > > > >> directors - including the two running for reelection this
>> >>>> summer -
>> >>>> > > have
>> >>>> > > > >> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings,
>> >>>> but has
>> >>>> > > > chosen
>> >>>> > > > >> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and
>> other
>> >>>> issues,
>> >>>> > > > >> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made
>> >>>> available
>> >>>> > > > to
>> >>>> > > > >> AMSAT members.
>> >>>> > > > >>
>> >>>> > > > >> Thank you.
>> >>>> > > > >>
>> >>>> > > > >> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
>> >>>> > > > >> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
>> >>>> > > > >> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
>> >>>> > > > >>
>> >>>> > > > >>
>> >>>> > > > >> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> > > > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>> >>>> available
>> >>>> > > > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
>> >>>> membership.
>> >>>> > > > >> Opinions expressed
>> >>>> > > > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
>> >>>> official views
>> >>>> > > of
>> >>>> > > > >> AMSAT-NA.
>> >>>> > > > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
>> >>>> satellite
>> >>>> > > > program!
>> >>>> > > > >> Subscription settings:
>> >>>> > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >>>> > > > >>
>> >>>> > > > >
>> >>>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> >>>> > > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>> >>>> available
>> >>>> > > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
>> membership.
>> >>>> > > Opinions
>> >>>> > > > expressed
>> >>>> > > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>> >>>> views of
>> >>>> > > > AMSAT-NA.
>> >>>> > > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
>> satellite
>> >>>> > > program!
>> >>>> > > > Subscription settings:
>> >>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >>>> > > >
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> > > --
>> >>>> > > Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
>> >>>> eventually
>> >>>> > > :-)
>> >>>> > > _______________________________________________
>> >>>> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>> >>>> available
>> >>>> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> >>>> Opinions
>> >>>> > > expressed
>> >>>> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>> >>>> views of
>> >>>> > > AMSAT-NA.
>> >>>> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> >>>> program!
>> >>>> > > Subscription settings:
>> >>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>> available
>> >>>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> >>>> Opinions expressed
>> >>>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>> views
>> >>>> of AMSAT-NA.
>> >>>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> >>>> program!
>> >>>> > Subscription settings:
>> >>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
>> >> eventually :-)
>> >>
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>

From jeff30339 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 16:31:21 2020
From: jeff30339 at gmail.com (Jeff Johns)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 11:31:21 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c-aPEA+WoiMrE40NMWF+UBU9p8kLBc299ntBdm-w5ZhXg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADkz4c-aPEA+WoiMrE40NMWF+UBU9p8kLBc299ntBdm-w5ZhXg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <99626F25-8991-4306-814A-012C0A2B715D@gmail.com>


> and some use that as a method/means of intimidation or
> suppression of speech. 

As admitted by the President in his infamous letter, it was legacy, incumbent BoDs that were the first to seek legal advice by conspiring to shut-out Michelle and Patrick in a manner which goes against AMSAT bylaws. Do you not think that Michelle and Patrick had the right to defend themselves against this action? Not only were they defending themselves, they were defending the bylaws of the Corporation. We need more BoDs like them that are willing to standup to the old guard and meet their bullying with equal action. Sadly, many AMSAT members know they will be made a target if they speak out against the old guard or have new ideas and opinions. This must change or we will only have more of the same. I don?t see Michelle or Patrick ?running off? any volunteers. In reality, they are trying to change the culture of AMSAT and make it more welcoming for ALL volunteers, not just those that are blessed by the old guard. To help continue this work of change that Michelle and Patrick have started members can vote for me, Bob and Howie. Otherwise, we will end-up with the same old, same old and the same culture of cliquish behavior by legacy incumbents. 

Jeff WE4B
http://we4bravo.com

From propgrinder at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 16:33:37 2020
From: propgrinder at gmail.com (Bob Hammond)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 09:33:37 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Yaeus G-5500 rotator boom mounting
Message-ID: <CAKoB7OqMu_jm8dYK-ozMzGGe3=_GKWmOai6e=iu+M0VtU8hGvA@mail.gmail.com>

How do others attach their fiberglass boom to the elevation rotor on a
G-5500?  Just use the boom clamps provided?  Make a sleeve to fit between
the smaller fiberglass boom and elevation rotor inside diameter?  Drill a
hole and pin it?

All ideas appreciated.

Bob W7OTJ

From graham at shirville.com  Fri Aug  7 16:46:49 2020
From: graham at shirville.com (Graham Shirville)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 17:46:49 +0100
Subject: [amsat-bb] Yaeus G-5500 rotator boom mounting
In-Reply-To: <CAKoB7OqMu_jm8dYK-ozMzGGe3=_GKWmOai6e=iu+M0VtU8hGvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7OqMu_jm8dYK-ozMzGGe3=_GKWmOai6e=iu+M0VtU8hGvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <756879f9-db91-178c-cebf-0f2d922a21d6@shirville.com>

Hi Bob,

I had to use two shorter fibreglass poles so I found a short length of 
ali pole which was a tight fit INSIDE the fibreglass one. This supports 
the glass material where it is being clamped.

To further protect the fibreglass on the outside I slipped some slit 
pieces of pvc downpipe underneath the clamps before tightening it.

I am not sure if it is the best answer but it has survived > ten years here.

Good luck

73

Graham G3VZV

On 07/08/2020 17:33, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> How do others attach their fiberglass boom to the elevation rotor on a
> G-5500?  Just use the boom clamps provided?  Make a sleeve to fit between
> the smaller fiberglass boom and elevation rotor inside diameter?  Drill a
> hole and pin it?
>
> All ideas appreciated.
>
> Bob W7OTJ
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From jean.marc.momple at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 17:04:44 2020
From: jean.marc.momple at gmail.com (Jean Marc Momple)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 21:04:44 +0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Yaeus G-5500 rotator boom mounting
In-Reply-To: <756879f9-db91-178c-cebf-0f2d922a21d6@shirville.com>
References: <CAKoB7OqMu_jm8dYK-ozMzGGe3=_GKWmOai6e=iu+M0VtU8hGvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<756879f9-db91-178c-cebf-0f2d922a21d6@shirville.com>
Message-ID: <C57F0DDB-0B1B-4FE5-8E14-2F4F87713584@gmail.com>

Bob,

Suggestion:

Roller paint extension (6m) works very well for booms and many other antenna application and relatively cheap. In case more strength required one may use the different size (as telescopic) with some epoxy glue to make the boom more stiffer. I used same a lot for also collinear verticals, Yagi boom etc..

For the elevation motor boom  I use aluminum tube over the fiberglass tube secured with epoxy glue, so that the clamp does not crush the fiberglass boom..

73


Jean Marc (3B8DU)



> On Aug 7, 2020, at 8:46 PM, Graham Shirville via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Bob,
> 
> I had to use two shorter fibreglass poles so I found a short length of ali pole which was a tight fit INSIDE the fibreglass one. This supports the glass material where it is being clamped.
> 
> To further protect the fibreglass on the outside I slipped some slit pieces of pvc downpipe underneath the clamps before tightening it.
> 
> I am not sure if it is the best answer but it has survived > ten years here.
> 
> Good luck
> 
> 73
> 
> Graham G3VZV
> 
> On 07/08/2020 17:33, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>> How do others attach their fiberglass boom to the elevation rotor on a
>> G-5500?  Just use the boom clamps provided?  Make a sleeve to fit between
>> the smaller fiberglass boom and elevation rotor inside diameter?  Drill a
>> hole and pin it?
>> 
>> All ideas appreciated.
>> 
>> Bob W7OTJ
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From e.krome at comcast.net  Fri Aug  7 18:02:03 2020
From: e.krome at comcast.net (Ed Krome)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 14:02:03 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Yaeus G-5500 rotator boom mounting
In-Reply-To: <CAKoB7OqMu_jm8dYK-ozMzGGe3=_GKWmOai6e=iu+M0VtU8hGvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7OqMu_jm8dYK-ozMzGGe3=_GKWmOai6e=iu+M0VtU8hGvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A5146188-6189-45BE-99EC-BC5B17669392@comcast.net>

Just the included clamps have proven adequate for a pair of 12? long yagis. 

Ed Krome K9EK

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 7, 2020, at 12:35 PM, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?How do others attach their fiberglass boom to the elevation rotor on a
> G-5500?  Just use the boom clamps provided?  Make a sleeve to fit between
> the smaller fiberglass boom and elevation rotor inside diameter?  Drill a
> hole and pin it?
> 
> All ideas appreciated.
> 
> Bob W7OTJ
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 19:19:00 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 15:19:00 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <99626F25-8991-4306-814A-012C0A2B715D@gmail.com>
References: <CADkz4c-aPEA+WoiMrE40NMWF+UBU9p8kLBc299ntBdm-w5ZhXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<99626F25-8991-4306-814A-012C0A2B715D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c-7_PRdm=p7h1cnWPmKQBJTFhDLhD=GzFbj7qDGTn6niA@mail.gmail.com>

Jeff,

Based on the responses that I have received off the list, I really don't
think that's the case by any stretch of the imagination.  Falsely
representing AMSATs relationships with other organizations is not going to
benefit AMSAT (or the individuals if they decide do go elsewhere)  And, if
you look at some of the individuals who have made an effort to chime-in on
the -bb and then look at the -bb history to see how often those specific
individuals take their time to do so... that says something.  The reality
is, AMSAT has good relationships.

I'm not going to play this whole old-guard, new-guard game, because it goes
against everything my prefrontal cortex tells me to do, but at the same
time I am also not going to stand by and remain silent while the
'old-guard' is badgered, until someone gives me a good, technical reason to
do so.  So-far, from the -bb, i've learned that Bruce Perens made it 26
letters easier to pass an FCC exam (high five) and Michelle and Patrick are
busy stirring up legal issues for AMSAT.  All I can say about that is,
AMSAT never needed to hire an attorney against me personally or anyone else
that I have known since 2008... That says something.  Oh, not just me, but
tons of other people.  People who built stuff, worked late, got angry at
each other, kicked, screamed, almost had our fingers cut off, burnt, eyes
almost poked out, etc... but, still seemed to have fun and get stuff done.  I
will say this, from what I have seen of Patrick and Michelle (-bb and other
observations), they seem like extremely involved people and appear to have
a substantial amount of time on their hands to coordinate.  Patrick seems
like he's done tons from an outreach standpoint and Michelle seems like
she'd be a wonderful PR kinda person.  But based on the legal letter being
propagated to the -bb and other comments out there, their place is
absolutely not on the board.  I think I met Michelle once at the Baltimore
or Orlando symposium, i'm not entirely sure, maybe she remembers.  From a
practical standpoint though, I think everyone has a place and could
positively contribute to the group, but the way this is being done is not
right to me.  This "fight against the old guard" is entirely fabricated and
appears to be created for political purposes and unfortunately, it's
damaging.

With respects to the public council letter sent to the -bb, that just shows
that for whatever reasons, they are unable to handle issues behind closed
doors.  Handling issues like this should be done professionally to preserve
the integrity of the organization.  That is a huge issue for me.  It's
obviously being done more for political pandering / show than for
substance, hence the posting to the bb in the first place... And yes, you
can say blah-blah-blah about bylaws and claim whatever you want about the
'rule of law' and whatever.... but, laws are there for a reason and think
for a minute about how many other AMSAT members and engineers have contributed,
helped out and never put AMSAT through any legal issues or threats, for
anything...   This is all unfair and not something I want to see
individuals on the board doing.  I want to see the engineering stack taken
to the next level.  A pile of work went into developing the stack that went
into suitsat/arissat/fox/etc... none of that should be taken for granted
and that level of effort should not be diminished.  Oh, and lots of those
in the 'old-guard' made that happen... but that's always conveniently left
out.  It seems like everything that's politically been going on since 2018
has been counter to making AMSAT productive, at least politically.  Jeff, I
don't really trust anyone you are recommending.  Trust is extremely
important to me.  People do not trust groups... they trust individuals.
And, trust is earned, on an individual basis, not demanded through legal
council letters.  If you can't get a BOD to work with you, you're the
problem.  Just imagine what will happen with external groups.  Are they
going to get threatened with a legal council letter too?

Remember, a loose cannon can point every direction.

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO


On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 12:35 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

>
> > and some use that as a method/means of intimidation or
> > suppression of speech.
>
> As admitted by the President in his infamous letter, it was legacy,
> incumbent BoDs that were the first to seek legal advice by conspiring to
> shut-out Michelle and Patrick in a manner which goes against AMSAT bylaws.
> Do you not think that Michelle and Patrick had the right to defend
> themselves against this action? Not only were they defending themselves,
> they were defending the bylaws of the Corporation. We need more BoDs like
> them that are willing to standup to the old guard and meet their bullying
> with equal action. Sadly, many AMSAT members know they will be made a
> target if they speak out against the old guard or have new ideas and
> opinions. This must change or we will only have more of the same. I don?t
> see Michelle or Patrick ?running off? any volunteers. In reality, they are
> trying to change the culture of AMSAT and make it more welcoming for ALL
> volunteers, not just those that are blessed by the old guard. To help
> continue this work of change that Michelle and Patrick have started members
> can vote for me, Bob and Howie. Otherwise, we will end-up with the same
> old, same old and the same culture of cliquish behavior by legacy
> incumbents.
>
> Jeff WE4B
> http://we4bravo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From jeff30339 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 20:14:45 2020
From: jeff30339 at gmail.com (Jeff Johns)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 15:14:45 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c-7_PRdm=p7h1cnWPmKQBJTFhDLhD=GzFbj7qDGTn6niA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADkz4c-7_PRdm=p7h1cnWPmKQBJTFhDLhD=GzFbj7qDGTn6niA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9EED2A72-4BB0-47B5-B887-E4452A75F23A@gmail.com>

Joseph, you most certainly have the right to your opinion just like everyone else does. As I stated, the President admitted in his letter to the membership that lawyers were hired in an attempt to shut-out Michelle and Patrick. This is a fact. These lawyers were hired in violation of bylaws. This is a fact. I feel quite certain that anyone who had that happen to them would feel the need to defend themselves which is what Michelle and Patrick did. Are you saying that, as Directors, they shouldn?t have let us, the members know what was occurring? Why should they just stay quiet while bylaws and Washington DC corporate code were broken?

I?m glad that they have been transparent and have exposed what so many of us suspected was occurring within the clubhouse. The legacy incumbents do treat it as their clubhouse. Many members feel that way as I also receive ?off the list? emails. 

There is quite a division within AMSAT right now. That?s obvious. This division seems to stem from the way legacy Directors have been managing/mismanaging the organization. Because of this, many members have become disillusioned and upset. Some not renewing memberships. Some no longer donating. Many members feel that AMSAT has fallen behind others in our quest to keep amateur radio in space. Because of this, several of us have decided to run for a spot on the Board. No doubt all of us running will receive some votes. Some more than others but whomever wins they will need to realize that there will be those with opposing views. Howie, Bob and I are willing to listen to the opposition and consider their views. Obviously they legacy BoDs aren?t because they hired legal counsel in an attempt to shut out Michelle and Patrick. 

We need this cloud removed from AMSAT. As long as the legacy BoD members maintain power, the cloud will remain. Can you imagine what donors must be thinking when they have seen the reports (validated by the President?s letter) of misspending? Remember, the first letter the President published stated that ?AMSAT denies false allegations?. The President did NOT say the allegations were false. It was semantics and when he figured out that a lot of members knew this he attempted to fix this with a second later but, once again, never denied the allegations. This is what has brought the dark cloud to AMSAT. If there was no fire, there would be no smoke to form the cloud over AMSAT. The fire must be extinguished. This can easily be done by electing me, Howie and Bob. 

Once again, I appreciate the volunteer work you do and appreciate your opinion. All I ask is that you also respect the opinions of others. Trust me, there are a lot of people who have different views about the BoDs than you do. Have a great weekend, it looks to be a nice one here which means it will be great weather for going outside and making satellite QSOs. 

Jeff WE4B 
http://we4bravo.com

> On Aug 7, 2020, at 2:17 PM, Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Jeff,
> 
> Based on the responses that I have received off the list, I really don't think that's the case by any stretch of the imagination.  Falsely representing AMSATs relationships with other organizations is not going to benefit AMSAT (or the individuals if they decide do go elsewhere)  And, if you look at some of the individuals who have made an effort to chime-in on the -bb and then look at the -bb history to see how often those specific individuals take their time to do so... that says something.  The reality is, AMSAT has good relationships.
> 
> I'm not going to play this whole old-guard, new-guard game, because it goes against everything my prefrontal cortex tells me to do, but at the same time I am also not going to stand by and remain silent while the 'old-guard' is badgered, until someone gives me a good, technical reason to do so.  So-far, from the -bb, i've learned that Bruce Perens made it 26 letters easier to pass an FCC exam (high five) and Michelle and Patrick are busy stirring up legal issues for AMSAT.  All I can say about that is, AMSAT never needed to hire an attorney against me personally or anyone else that I have known since 2008... That says something.  Oh, not just me, but tons of other people.  People who built stuff, worked late, got angry at each other, kicked, screamed, almost had our fingers cut off, burnt, eyes almost poked out, etc... but, still seemed to have fun and get stuff done.  I will say this, from what I have seen of Patrick and Michelle (-bb and other observations), they seem like extremely involved people and appear to have a substantial amount of time on their hands to coordinate.  Patrick seems like he's done tons from an outreach standpoint and Michelle seems like she'd be a wonderful PR kinda person.  But based on the legal letter being propagated to the -bb and other comments out there, their place is absolutely not on the board.  I think I met Michelle once at the Baltimore or Orlando symposium, i'm not entirely sure, maybe she remembers.  From a practical standpoint though, I think everyone has a place and could positively contribute to the group, but the way this is being done is not right to me.  This "fight against the old guard" is entirely fabricated and appears to be created for political purposes and unfortunately, it's damaging.
> 
> With respects to the public council letter sent to the -bb, that just shows that for whatever reasons, they are unable to handle issues behind closed doors.  Handling issues like this should be done professionally to preserve the integrity of the organization.  That is a huge issue for me.  It's obviously being done more for political pandering / show than for substance, hence the posting to the bb in the first place... And yes, you can say blah-blah-blah about bylaws and claim whatever you want about the 'rule of law' and whatever.... but, laws are there for a reason and think for a minute about how many other AMSAT members and engineers have contributed, helped out and never put AMSAT through any legal issues or threats, for anything...   This is all unfair and not something I want to see individuals on the board doing.  I want to see the engineering stack taken to the next level.  A pile of work went into developing the stack that went into suitsat/arissat/fox/etc... none of that should be taken for granted and that level of effort should not be diminished.  Oh, and lots of those in the 'old-guard' made that happen... but that's always conveniently left out.  It seems like everything that's politically been going on since 2018 has been counter to making AMSAT productive, at least politically.  Jeff, I don't really trust anyone you are recommending.  Trust is extremely important to me.  People do not trust groups... they trust individuals.  And, trust is earned, on an individual basis, not demanded through legal council letters.  If you can't get a BOD to work with you, you're the problem.  Just imagine what will happen with external groups.  Are they going to get threatened with a legal council letter too?
> 
> Remember, a loose cannon can point every direction.
> 
> Joseph Armbruster
> KJ4JIO
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 12:35 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> 
>> > and some use that as a method/means of intimidation or
>> > suppression of speech. 
>> 
>> As admitted by the President in his infamous letter, it was legacy, incumbent BoDs that were the first to seek legal advice by conspiring to shut-out Michelle and Patrick in a manner which goes against AMSAT bylaws. Do you not think that Michelle and Patrick had the right to defend themselves against this action? Not only were they defending themselves, they were defending the bylaws of the Corporation. We need more BoDs like them that are willing to standup to the old guard and meet their bullying with equal action. Sadly, many AMSAT members know they will be made a target if they speak out against the old guard or have new ideas and opinions. This must change or we will only have more of the same. I don?t see Michelle or Patrick ?running off? any volunteers. In reality, they are trying to change the culture of AMSAT and make it more welcoming for ALL volunteers, not just those that are blessed by the old guard. To help continue this work of change that Michelle and Patrick have started members can vote for me, Bob and Howie. Otherwise, we will end-up with the same old, same old and the same culture of cliquish behavior by legacy incumbents. 
>> 
>> Jeff WE4B
>> http://we4bravo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From bruce at perens.com  Fri Aug  7 20:42:39 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 13:42:39 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <9EED2A72-4BB0-47B5-B887-E4452A75F23A@gmail.com>
References: <CADkz4c-7_PRdm=p7h1cnWPmKQBJTFhDLhD=GzFbj7qDGTn6niA@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EED2A72-4BB0-47B5-B887-E4452A75F23A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOvEYDKL5WAYTTRGZGEP9u+PUdLv8mjsTfXibSE=swKOEg@mail.gmail.com>

> I?m glad that they have been transparent

:-)

We need to remain aware of the difference between frankness and
transparency. What we saw was a frank admission of conduct that many of us
found to be an inappropriate means of dealing with opposition.

People also confuse frankness with honesty.

From dave at druidnetworks.com  Fri Aug  7 20:46:14 2020
From: dave at druidnetworks.com (David Swanson)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 15:46:14 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <9EED2A72-4BB0-47B5-B887-E4452A75F23A@gmail.com>
References: <CADkz4c-7_PRdm=p7h1cnWPmKQBJTFhDLhD=GzFbj7qDGTn6niA@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EED2A72-4BB0-47B5-B887-E4452A75F23A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANq+eyWCdek=QxE9ugyizPCH7En6ALupmH_0dn=JOA+Qp+yYEA@mail.gmail.com>

Jeff,

Like Patrick I have no personal beef with you. We've gotten along in the
past, and while I think you're on the wrong side of this current political
divide, I consider our disagreement professional rather than personal.
However your posts in this thread are simply not grounded in reality.

In President Coleman's letter the reason for engaging lawyers was perfectly
clear: Director Stoddard (at the time a volunteer) was accused of harassing
other AMSAT volunteers. Director Thompson (at the time holding no official
position) was running for a BoD position while holding numerous blatant
conflicts of interest. Director Thompson had also just absconded with Slack
license keys that belonged to AMSAT Engineering, hijacked the former AMSAT
Facebook group by removing administrator privileges of other directors and
volunteers, and accused directors and volunteers of harassment. Director
Thompson and Director Stoddard ran in 2019 on a platform of 'Screw ITAR,
Screw NDAs' - which is a paradigm shift in the way AMSAT has always done
business, and would likely directly impact the ability of AMSAT to work
with launch partners. Bruce Perens (holding no position at all) made
numerous legal threats on Twitter towards volunteers and directors while
supporting Director Thompson and Director Stoddard in the 2019 election.
And the list goes on, and on, and on.

The point isn't about who hired a lawyer first, it's who picked the fight
first. The current scenario of hostility and threats we find ourselves in
is 100% the fault of Director Thompson, Director Stoddard, and their
surrogates. The action taken by the AMSAT directorship to secure legal
counsel is unambiguously a defensive tactic, and was long overdue, for all
of these I've listed and more. When I first found out AMSAT had hired
lawyers to deal with the hostile parties my first reaction was 'Bout dang
time'.

-Dave, KG5CCI

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 3:19 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Joseph, you most certainly have the right to your opinion just like
> everyone else does. As I stated, the President admitted in his letter to
> the membership that lawyers were hired in an attempt to shut-out Michelle
> and Patrick. This is a fact. These lawyers were hired in violation of
> bylaws. This is a fact. I feel quite certain that anyone who had that
> happen to them would feel the need to defend themselves which is what
> Michelle and Patrick did. Are you saying that, as Directors, they shouldn?t
> have let us, the members know what was occurring? Why should they just stay
> quiet while bylaws and Washington DC corporate code were broken?
>
> I?m glad that they have been transparent and have exposed what so many of
> us suspected was occurring within the clubhouse. The legacy incumbents do
> treat it as their clubhouse. Many members feel that way as I also receive
> ?off the list? emails.
>
> There is quite a division within AMSAT right now. That?s obvious. This
> division seems to stem from the way legacy Directors have been
> managing/mismanaging the organization. Because of this, many members have
> become disillusioned and upset. Some not renewing memberships. Some no
> longer donating. Many members feel that AMSAT has fallen behind others in
> our quest to keep amateur radio in space. Because of this, several of us
> have decided to run for a spot on the Board. No doubt all of us running
> will receive some votes. Some more than others but whomever wins they will
> need to realize that there will be those with opposing views. Howie, Bob
> and I are willing to listen to the opposition and consider their views.
> Obviously they legacy BoDs aren?t because they hired legal counsel in an
> attempt to shut out Michelle and Patrick.
>
> We need this cloud removed from AMSAT. As long as the legacy BoD members
> maintain power, the cloud will remain. Can you imagine what donors must be
> thinking when they have seen the reports (validated by the President?s
> letter) of misspending? Remember, the first letter the President published
> stated that ?AMSAT denies false allegations?. The President did NOT say the
> allegations were false. It was semantics and when he figured out that a lot
> of members knew this he attempted to fix this with a second later but, once
> again, never denied the allegations. This is what has brought the dark
> cloud to AMSAT. If there was no fire, there would be no smoke to form the
> cloud over AMSAT. The fire must be extinguished. This can easily be done by
> electing me, Howie and Bob.
>
> Once again, I appreciate the volunteer work you do and appreciate your
> opinion. All I ask is that you also respect the opinions of others. Trust
> me, there are a lot of people who have different views about the BoDs than
> you do. Have a great weekend, it looks to be a nice one here which means it
> will be great weather for going outside and making satellite QSOs.
>
> Jeff WE4B
> http://we4bravo.com
>
> > On Aug 7, 2020, at 2:17 PM, Joseph Armbruster <
> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > ?
> > Jeff,
> >
> > Based on the responses that I have received off the list, I really don't
> think that's the case by any stretch of the imagination.  Falsely
> representing AMSATs relationships with other organizations is not going to
> benefit AMSAT (or the individuals if they decide do go elsewhere)  And, if
> you look at some of the individuals who have made an effort to chime-in on
> the -bb and then look at the -bb history to see how often those specific
> individuals take their time to do so... that says something.  The reality
> is, AMSAT has good relationships.
> >
> > I'm not going to play this whole old-guard, new-guard game, because it
> goes against everything my prefrontal cortex tells me to do, but at the
> same time I am also not going to stand by and remain silent while the
> 'old-guard' is badgered, until someone gives me a good, technical reason to
> do so.  So-far, from the -bb, i've learned that Bruce Perens made it 26
> letters easier to pass an FCC exam (high five) and Michelle and Patrick are
> busy stirring up legal issues for AMSAT.  All I can say about that is,
> AMSAT never needed to hire an attorney against me personally or anyone else
> that I have known since 2008... That says something.  Oh, not just me, but
> tons of other people.  People who built stuff, worked late, got angry at
> each other, kicked, screamed, almost had our fingers cut off, burnt, eyes
> almost poked out, etc... but, still seemed to have fun and get stuff done.
> I will say this, from what I have seen of Patrick and Michelle (-bb and
> other observations), they seem like extremely involved people and appear to
> have a substantial amount of time on their hands to coordinate.  Patrick
> seems like he's done tons from an outreach standpoint and Michelle seems
> like she'd be a wonderful PR kinda person.  But based on the legal letter
> being propagated to the -bb and other comments out there, their place is
> absolutely not on the board.  I think I met Michelle once at the Baltimore
> or Orlando symposium, i'm not entirely sure, maybe she remembers.  From a
> practical standpoint though, I think everyone has a place and could
> positively contribute to the group, but the way this is being done is not
> right to me.  This "fight against the old guard" is entirely fabricated and
> appears to be created for political purposes and unfortunately, it's
> damaging.
> >
> > With respects to the public council letter sent to the -bb, that just
> shows that for whatever reasons, they are unable to handle issues behind
> closed doors.  Handling issues like this should be done professionally to
> preserve the integrity of the organization.  That is a huge issue for me.
> It's obviously being done more for political pandering / show than for
> substance, hence the posting to the bb in the first place... And yes, you
> can say blah-blah-blah about bylaws and claim whatever you want about the
> 'rule of law' and whatever.... but, laws are there for a reason and think
> for a minute about how many other AMSAT members and engineers have
> contributed, helped out and never put AMSAT through any legal issues or
> threats, for anything...   This is all unfair and not something I want to
> see individuals on the board doing.  I want to see the engineering stack
> taken to the next level.  A pile of work went into developing the stack
> that went into suitsat/arissat/fox/etc... none of that should be taken for
> granted and that level of effort should not be diminished.  Oh, and lots of
> those in the 'old-guard' made that happen... but that's always conveniently
> left out.  It seems like everything that's politically been going on since
> 2018 has been counter to making AMSAT productive, at least politically.
> Jeff, I don't really trust anyone you are recommending.  Trust is extremely
> important to me.  People do not trust groups... they trust individuals.
> And, trust is earned, on an individual basis, not demanded through legal
> council letters.  If you can't get a BOD to work with you, you're the
> problem.  Just imagine what will happen with external groups.  Are they
> going to get threatened with a legal council letter too?
> >
> > Remember, a loose cannon can point every direction.
> >
> > Joseph Armbruster
> > KJ4JIO
> >
> >
> >> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 12:35 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> > and some use that as a method/means of intimidation or
> >> > suppression of speech.
> >>
> >> As admitted by the President in his infamous letter, it was legacy,
> incumbent BoDs that were the first to seek legal advice by conspiring to
> shut-out Michelle and Patrick in a manner which goes against AMSAT bylaws.
> Do you not think that Michelle and Patrick had the right to defend
> themselves against this action? Not only were they defending themselves,
> they were defending the bylaws of the Corporation. We need more BoDs like
> them that are willing to standup to the old guard and meet their bullying
> with equal action. Sadly, many AMSAT members know they will be made a
> target if they speak out against the old guard or have new ideas and
> opinions. This must change or we will only have more of the same. I don?t
> see Michelle or Patrick ?running off? any volunteers. In reality, they are
> trying to change the culture of AMSAT and make it more welcoming for ALL
> volunteers, not just those that are blessed by the old guard. To help
> continue this work of change that Michelle and Patrick have started members
> can vote for me, Bob and Howie. Otherwise, we will end-up with the same
> old, same old and the same culture of cliquish behavior by legacy
> incumbents.
> >>
> >> Jeff WE4B
> >> http://we4bravo.com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 21:04:52 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 17:04:52 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <9EED2A72-4BB0-47B5-B887-E4452A75F23A@gmail.com>
References: <CADkz4c-7_PRdm=p7h1cnWPmKQBJTFhDLhD=GzFbj7qDGTn6niA@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EED2A72-4BB0-47B5-B887-E4452A75F23A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c9q9Vrm17wkgbFAA1JRBrgmAdXz+hGwKAgp-n9=KrhhsA@mail.gmail.com>

Jeff,

You claim they were shutting people out but I run my own business and know
how meetings can go and people can be.  And you're not going to pull that
one on me... It could have easily been that someone said something in that
meeting or in some conversation privately, or under-their-breath, to
insinuate that someone would take legal action against AMSAT or some
specific individual.  There's No Doubt in my mind, based upon everything
i've heard on the -bb that Something took place.. that no-one is really
being honest about...

This sure makes me wonder, why didn't AMSAT ever do this against me or the
tons of volunteers and engineers before me?  You can't tell me this is the
first case of some problem...

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 4:21 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Joseph, you most certainly have the right to your opinion just like
> everyone else does. As I stated, the President admitted in his letter to
> the membership that lawyers were hired in an attempt to shut-out Michelle
> and Patrick. This is a fact. These lawyers were hired in violation of
> bylaws. This is a fact. I feel quite certain that anyone who had that
> happen to them would feel the need to defend themselves which is what
> Michelle and Patrick did. Are you saying that, as Directors, they shouldn?t
> have let us, the members know what was occurring? Why should they just stay
> quiet while bylaws and Washington DC corporate code were broken?
>
> I?m glad that they have been transparent and have exposed what so many of
> us suspected was occurring within the clubhouse. The legacy incumbents do
> treat it as their clubhouse. Many members feel that way as I also receive
> ?off the list? emails.
>
> There is quite a division within AMSAT right now. That?s obvious. This
> division seems to stem from the way legacy Directors have been
> managing/mismanaging the organization. Because of this, many members have
> become disillusioned and upset. Some not renewing memberships. Some no
> longer donating. Many members feel that AMSAT has fallen behind others in
> our quest to keep amateur radio in space. Because of this, several of us
> have decided to run for a spot on the Board. No doubt all of us running
> will receive some votes. Some more than others but whomever wins they will
> need to realize that there will be those with opposing views. Howie, Bob
> and I are willing to listen to the opposition and consider their views.
> Obviously they legacy BoDs aren?t because they hired legal counsel in an
> attempt to shut out Michelle and Patrick.
>
> We need this cloud removed from AMSAT. As long as the legacy BoD members
> maintain power, the cloud will remain. Can you imagine what donors must be
> thinking when they have seen the reports (validated by the President?s
> letter) of misspending? Remember, the first letter the President published
> stated that ?AMSAT denies false allegations?. The President did NOT say the
> allegations were false. It was semantics and when he figured out that a lot
> of members knew this he attempted to fix this with a second later but, once
> again, never denied the allegations. This is what has brought the dark
> cloud to AMSAT. If there was no fire, there would be no smoke to form the
> cloud over AMSAT. The fire must be extinguished. This can easily be done by
> electing me, Howie and Bob.
>
> Once again, I appreciate the volunteer work you do and appreciate your
> opinion. All I ask is that you also respect the opinions of others. Trust
> me, there are a lot of people who have different views about the BoDs than
> you do. Have a great weekend, it looks to be a nice one here which means it
> will be great weather for going outside and making satellite QSOs.
>
> Jeff WE4B
> http://we4bravo.com
>
> > On Aug 7, 2020, at 2:17 PM, Joseph Armbruster <
> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > ?
> > Jeff,
> >
> > Based on the responses that I have received off the list, I really don't
> think that's the case by any stretch of the imagination.  Falsely
> representing AMSATs relationships with other organizations is not going to
> benefit AMSAT (or the individuals if they decide do go elsewhere)  And, if
> you look at some of the individuals who have made an effort to chime-in on
> the -bb and then look at the -bb history to see how often those specific
> individuals take their time to do so... that says something.  The reality
> is, AMSAT has good relationships.
> >
> > I'm not going to play this whole old-guard, new-guard game, because it
> goes against everything my prefrontal cortex tells me to do, but at the
> same time I am also not going to stand by and remain silent while the
> 'old-guard' is badgered, until someone gives me a good, technical reason to
> do so.  So-far, from the -bb, i've learned that Bruce Perens made it 26
> letters easier to pass an FCC exam (high five) and Michelle and Patrick are
> busy stirring up legal issues for AMSAT.  All I can say about that is,
> AMSAT never needed to hire an attorney against me personally or anyone else
> that I have known since 2008... That says something.  Oh, not just me, but
> tons of other people.  People who built stuff, worked late, got angry at
> each other, kicked, screamed, almost had our fingers cut off, burnt, eyes
> almost poked out, etc... but, still seemed to have fun and get stuff done.
> I will say this, from what I have seen of Patrick and Michelle (-bb and
> other observations), they seem like extremely involved people and appear to
> have a substantial amount of time on their hands to coordinate.  Patrick
> seems like he's done tons from an outreach standpoint and Michelle seems
> like she'd be a wonderful PR kinda person.  But based on the legal letter
> being propagated to the -bb and other comments out there, their place is
> absolutely not on the board.  I think I met Michelle once at the Baltimore
> or Orlando symposium, i'm not entirely sure, maybe she remembers.  From a
> practical standpoint though, I think everyone has a place and could
> positively contribute to the group, but the way this is being done is not
> right to me.  This "fight against the old guard" is entirely fabricated and
> appears to be created for political purposes and unfortunately, it's
> damaging.
> >
> > With respects to the public council letter sent to the -bb, that just
> shows that for whatever reasons, they are unable to handle issues behind
> closed doors.  Handling issues like this should be done professionally to
> preserve the integrity of the organization.  That is a huge issue for me.
> It's obviously being done more for political pandering / show than for
> substance, hence the posting to the bb in the first place... And yes, you
> can say blah-blah-blah about bylaws and claim whatever you want about the
> 'rule of law' and whatever.... but, laws are there for a reason and think
> for a minute about how many other AMSAT members and engineers have
> contributed, helped out and never put AMSAT through any legal issues or
> threats, for anything...   This is all unfair and not something I want to
> see individuals on the board doing.  I want to see the engineering stack
> taken to the next level.  A pile of work went into developing the stack
> that went into suitsat/arissat/fox/etc... none of that should be taken for
> granted and that level of effort should not be diminished.  Oh, and lots of
> those in the 'old-guard' made that happen... but that's always conveniently
> left out.  It seems like everything that's politically been going on since
> 2018 has been counter to making AMSAT productive, at least politically.
> Jeff, I don't really trust anyone you are recommending.  Trust is extremely
> important to me.  People do not trust groups... they trust individuals.
> And, trust is earned, on an individual basis, not demanded through legal
> council letters.  If you can't get a BOD to work with you, you're the
> problem.  Just imagine what will happen with external groups.  Are they
> going to get threatened with a legal council letter too?
> >
> > Remember, a loose cannon can point every direction.
> >
> > Joseph Armbruster
> > KJ4JIO
> >
> >
> >> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 12:35 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> > and some use that as a method/means of intimidation or
> >> > suppression of speech.
> >>
> >> As admitted by the President in his infamous letter, it was legacy,
> incumbent BoDs that were the first to seek legal advice by conspiring to
> shut-out Michelle and Patrick in a manner which goes against AMSAT bylaws.
> Do you not think that Michelle and Patrick had the right to defend
> themselves against this action? Not only were they defending themselves,
> they were defending the bylaws of the Corporation. We need more BoDs like
> them that are willing to standup to the old guard and meet their bullying
> with equal action. Sadly, many AMSAT members know they will be made a
> target if they speak out against the old guard or have new ideas and
> opinions. This must change or we will only have more of the same. I don?t
> see Michelle or Patrick ?running off? any volunteers. In reality, they are
> trying to change the culture of AMSAT and make it more welcoming for ALL
> volunteers, not just those that are blessed by the old guard. To help
> continue this work of change that Michelle and Patrick have started members
> can vote for me, Bob and Howie. Otherwise, we will end-up with the same
> old, same old and the same culture of cliquish behavior by legacy
> incumbents.
> >>
> >> Jeff WE4B
> >> http://we4bravo.com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From vlfiscus at mcn.net  Fri Aug  7 22:04:16 2020
From: vlfiscus at mcn.net (Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2020 16:04:16 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] FT-736 power supply part.
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20200807155811.021234e8@pop.earthlink.net>

Hi All,

I walked into the shack about a month ago and smelled something
really hot like the smell from a hot resistor.  Turned off all
the equipment waited a while then turned everything back on.

The FT-736 didn't come back on, so I assumed the power supply,
as this is a common problem with the rigs as they get older.

Bought a repair replacement kit for the electrolytic caps
in the power supply, which is normally the problem. They get
baked and fail.

Got the power supply out last night to do the repairs and
I discovered it was the SCR in the power supply that had
totally burned up. Weird.

Does anyone here have or know a Digi-key or Mouser part
number for the SCR or an equivalent compatible part?
It labeled SCR21 on P.C. board.

Thanks


From af5cc2 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 21:18:25 2020
From: af5cc2 at gmail.com (John Geiger)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 16:18:25 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] FS: 2019-2020 AMSAT Journal (4 issues)
Message-ID: <CAHC1P29h9Jphsguap7FhCY=m1AEs--Oth5GsYPCPFepe0ZcWrA@mail.gmail.com>

 I have for sale 4 issues of the AMSAT journal from 2019-2020, which
include the July/August 2019, September/October 2019, November/December
2019, and January/February 2020 issues. These are all in good condition and
contain lots of good information about the satellites and amateur radio in
space. I am asking $12 shipped for the set and can take paypal/check/MO.

73 John AF5CC

From bruce at perens.com  Fri Aug  7 21:32:39 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 14:32:39 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CANq+eyWCdek=QxE9ugyizPCH7En6ALupmH_0dn=JOA+Qp+yYEA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADkz4c-7_PRdm=p7h1cnWPmKQBJTFhDLhD=GzFbj7qDGTn6niA@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EED2A72-4BB0-47B5-B887-E4452A75F23A@gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyWCdek=QxE9ugyizPCH7En6ALupmH_0dn=JOA+Qp+yYEA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOtxpwxw7jCkgp4RUDodn-0d+ReQqjFB29J+OLDJnWEAuA@mail.gmail.com>

I made "numerous legal threats"? I don't think so.

Given what a tremendous whopper that one is, I can't attach any credibility
to the rest of your statement, except for one thing:

It is true that Michelle and Patrick, and for that matter I, feel that
AMSAT's NDAs prevent it from being able to achieve a workable ITAR strategy.

You simply can't use the ITAR 120.11 and EAR 734.7 carve-outs AND have
secret or proprietary portions of any technology listed under the United
States Munitions List. Once there is secret or proprietary technology, all
of the nasty restrictions of ITAR are unavoidable.

It is possible to deal with secrets outside of the technology, such as
launch schedules, and it is possible to compartmentalize some
ITAR-protected information, for example technology specific to the launch
which is not necessary for broader cooperations  such as designing and
constructing a satellite.

Thus it is necessary for AMSAT to examine all existing NDAs, separate
itself from ones that are no longer necessary, and carefully
compartmentalize any which need to stand for the moment. Michelle and
Patrick attempted to initiate this process, but have been blocked.

Thanks

Bruce

From bruce at perens.com  Fri Aug  7 21:42:43 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 14:42:43 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c9q9Vrm17wkgbFAA1JRBrgmAdXz+hGwKAgp-n9=KrhhsA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADkz4c-7_PRdm=p7h1cnWPmKQBJTFhDLhD=GzFbj7qDGTn6niA@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EED2A72-4BB0-47B5-B887-E4452A75F23A@gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c9q9Vrm17wkgbFAA1JRBrgmAdXz+hGwKAgp-n9=KrhhsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOu1xTp7W=K0kfmwd8FYzzGbqWDr5voAtk8m3Y447SDCKA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 2:11 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

>
> This sure makes me wonder, why didn't AMSAT ever do this against me or the
> tons of volunteers and engineers before me?  You can't tell me this is the
> first case of some problem...
>

Joseph,

And no police officer ever kneeled on _your_ neck, or your friends, so it
must be the Black person's problem, right?

It's the exact same argument.

There has been no shortage of conflict between AMSAT management and
volunteers. I have a long list of people whom I know were the major
developers of previous AMSAT missions, who we don't see here any longer.

As I said previously, no one hired lawyers against you because you did not
act as opposition to the incumbent board.

>

From w7lrd at comcast.net  Fri Aug  7 21:58:36 2020
From: w7lrd at comcast.net (73 Bob W7LRD)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 14:58:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOu1xTp7W=K0kfmwd8FYzzGbqWDr5voAtk8m3Y447SDCKA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADkz4c-7_PRdm=p7h1cnWPmKQBJTFhDLhD=GzFbj7qDGTn6niA@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EED2A72-4BB0-47B5-B887-E4452A75F23A@gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c9q9Vrm17wkgbFAA1JRBrgmAdXz+hGwKAgp-n9=KrhhsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOu1xTp7W=K0kfmwd8FYzzGbqWDr5voAtk8m3Y447SDCKA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <672841887.59587.1596837516845@connect.xfinity.com>

This is circular firing squad
73 Bob W7LRD
> On 08/07/2020 2:42 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
>  
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 2:11 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> >
> > This sure makes me wonder, why didn't AMSAT ever do this against me or the
> > tons of volunteers and engineers before me?  You can't tell me this is the
> > first case of some problem...
> >
> 
> Joseph,
> 
> And no police officer ever kneeled on _your_ neck, or your friends, so it
> must be the Black person's problem, right?
> 
> It's the exact same argument.
> 
> There has been no shortage of conflict between AMSAT management and
> volunteers. I have a long list of people whom I know were the major
> developers of previous AMSAT missions, who we don't see here any longer.
> 
> As I said previously, no one hired lawyers against you because you did not
> act as opposition to the incumbent board.
> 
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From johnbrier at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 22:01:02 2020
From: johnbrier at gmail.com (John Brier)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 18:01:02 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOu1xTp7W=K0kfmwd8FYzzGbqWDr5voAtk8m3Y447SDCKA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADkz4c-7_PRdm=p7h1cnWPmKQBJTFhDLhD=GzFbj7qDGTn6niA@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EED2A72-4BB0-47B5-B887-E4452A75F23A@gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c9q9Vrm17wkgbFAA1JRBrgmAdXz+hGwKAgp-n9=KrhhsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOu1xTp7W=K0kfmwd8FYzzGbqWDr5voAtk8m3Y447SDCKA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALn0fKPrFmMiULcHmCEo3=ziBrn-9XN1e996FR=9eMDOuBeD5w@mail.gmail.com>

Joseph,

I think what Bruce pointed out is another example of you refusing to see
even a spec of validity in the arguments you resist.

73, John Brier KG4AKV

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 17:44 Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 2:11 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> >
> > This sure makes me wonder, why didn't AMSAT ever do this against me or
> the
> > tons of volunteers and engineers before me?  You can't tell me this is
> the
> > first case of some problem...
> >
>
> Joseph,
>
> And no police officer ever kneeled on _your_ neck, or your friends, so it
> must be the Black person's problem, right?
>
> It's the exact same argument.
>
> There has been no shortage of conflict between AMSAT management and
> volunteers. I have a long list of people whom I know were the major
> developers of previous AMSAT missions, who we don't see here any longer.
>
> As I said previously, no one hired lawyers against you because you did not
> act as opposition to the incumbent board.
>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From johnbrier at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 22:03:03 2020
From: johnbrier at gmail.com (John Brier)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 18:03:03 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <672841887.59587.1596837516845@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <CADkz4c-7_PRdm=p7h1cnWPmKQBJTFhDLhD=GzFbj7qDGTn6niA@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EED2A72-4BB0-47B5-B887-E4452A75F23A@gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c9q9Vrm17wkgbFAA1JRBrgmAdXz+hGwKAgp-n9=KrhhsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOu1xTp7W=K0kfmwd8FYzzGbqWDr5voAtk8m3Y447SDCKA@mail.gmail.com>
	<672841887.59587.1596837516845@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <CALn0fKMiCGdhVSmEm9s9rLSB_bUc7cZhkzWXZECgjEy+7Kt6=w@mail.gmail.com>

It is starting to feel that way.

73, John Brier KG4AKV

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 18:00 73 Bob W7LRD via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> This is circular firing squad
> 73 Bob W7LRD
> > On 08/07/2020 2:42 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 2:11 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > This sure makes me wonder, why didn't AMSAT ever do this against me or
> the
> > > tons of volunteers and engineers before me?  You can't tell me this is
> the
> > > first case of some problem...
> > >
> >
> > Joseph,
> >
> > And no police officer ever kneeled on _your_ neck, or your friends, so it
> > must be the Black person's problem, right?
> >
> > It's the exact same argument.
> >
> > There has been no shortage of conflict between AMSAT management and
> > volunteers. I have a long list of people whom I know were the major
> > developers of previous AMSAT missions, who we don't see here any longer.
> >
> > As I said previously, no one hired lawyers against you because you did
> not
> > act as opposition to the incumbent board.
> >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From jim at k6ccc.org  Fri Aug  7 22:06:35 2020
From: jim at k6ccc.org (Jim Walls)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 15:06:35 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] FT-736 power supply part.
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20200807155811.021234e8@pop.earthlink.net>
References: <5.2.1.1.2.20200807155811.021234e8@pop.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <2dac132b-29bd-706a-3a32-d7cb681dc833@k6ccc.org>

On 08/07/2020 15:04, Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I walked into the shack about a month ago and smelled something
> really hot like the smell from a hot resistor.? Turned off all
> the equipment waited a while then turned everything back on.
>
> The FT-736 didn't come back on, so I assumed the power supply,
> as this is a common problem with the rigs as they get older.
>
> Bought a repair replacement kit for the electrolytic caps
> in the power supply, which is normally the problem. They get
> baked and fail.
>
> Got the power supply out last night to do the repairs and
> I discovered it was the SCR in the power supply that had
> totally burned up. Weird.
>
> Does anyone here have or know a Digi-key or Mouser part
> number for the SCR or an equivalent compatible part?
> It labeled SCR21 on P.C. board.


Vince,
Please either post results here or privately to me about fixing your 736 
power supply.? I am in the same position except that I have not done the 
caps & resistors replacements yet.? Therefore, I am in an information 
sponge mode as I do want to get mine working again. I expect to do the 
caps and resistors replacement.

According to the writeup I found for repairing the power supply, there 
is a schematic from DL7VHF that shows the SCR that appears to be part of 
an over voltage crowbar circuit to be a part 6P4M.? When I did a Google 
search for that, there were lots of hits.? This page may be very useful.

https://category.alldatasheet.com/index.jsp?components=scr%25206P4M

Good luck with your repair...

-- 
73
-------------------------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
jim at k6ccc.org
Ofc:  818-548-4804
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395


From dave at druidnetworks.com  Fri Aug  7 22:15:16 2020
From: dave at druidnetworks.com (David Swanson)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 17:15:16 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOtxpwxw7jCkgp4RUDodn-0d+ReQqjFB29J+OLDJnWEAuA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADkz4c-7_PRdm=p7h1cnWPmKQBJTFhDLhD=GzFbj7qDGTn6niA@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EED2A72-4BB0-47B5-B887-E4452A75F23A@gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyWCdek=QxE9ugyizPCH7En6ALupmH_0dn=JOA+Qp+yYEA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtxpwxw7jCkgp4RUDodn-0d+ReQqjFB29J+OLDJnWEAuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANq+eyW5fyM7oWUvXP80xJcCp=RTd4bC5ZQjQfv4CLEvZGAgug@mail.gmail.com>

Man I was hoping you'd deny this one.

July 19, 2019 @bruceperens "Or, Mark, would you like to discuss this issue
before a fair legal expert? Courts have judges whose job it is to enforce
by-laws of corporations. I think you should back down and admit fault
before you are in a lot more hot water".

I can post screenshots if you'd like, but the thread doesn't get much
better from there.

-Dave, KG5CCI

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 4:32 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:

> I made "numerous legal threats"? I don't think so.
>
> Given what a tremendous whopper that one is, I can't attach any
> credibility to the rest of your statement, except for one thing:
>
> It is true that Michelle and Patrick, and for that matter I, feel that
> AMSAT's NDAs prevent it from being able to achieve a workable ITAR strategy.
>
> You simply can't use the ITAR 120.11 and EAR 734.7 carve-outs AND have
> secret or proprietary portions of any technology listed under the United
> States Munitions List. Once there is secret or proprietary technology, all
> of the nasty restrictions of ITAR are unavoidable.
>
> It is possible to deal with secrets outside of the technology, such as
> launch schedules, and it is possible to compartmentalize some
> ITAR-protected information, for example technology specific to the launch
> which is not necessary for broader cooperations  such as designing and
> constructing a satellite.
>
> Thus it is necessary for AMSAT to examine all existing NDAs, separate
> itself from ones that are no longer necessary, and carefully
> compartmentalize any which need to stand for the moment. Michelle and
> Patrick attempted to initiate this process, but have been blocked.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bruce
>
>
>

From johnbrier at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 22:21:27 2020
From: johnbrier at gmail.com (John Brier)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 18:21:27 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c-7_PRdm=p7h1cnWPmKQBJTFhDLhD=GzFbj7qDGTn6niA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADkz4c-aPEA+WoiMrE40NMWF+UBU9p8kLBc299ntBdm-w5ZhXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<99626F25-8991-4306-814A-012C0A2B715D@gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-7_PRdm=p7h1cnWPmKQBJTFhDLhD=GzFbj7qDGTn6niA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALn0fKOy_DFxFbm1UNoAKCZKhTd_=OTgjY0AfoK9GF0Np3rYkA@mail.gmail.com>

In line response below..

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 15:21 Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

>  Michelle seems like
> she'd be a wonderful PR kinda person.
>

If you watch some of her Phase 4 report videos you will see she is very
technical.

https://youtu.be/_ZNshry3sZU
https://youtu.be/ZxS1UTI0_xs

73, John Brier KG4AKV

>

From dave at druidnetworks.com  Fri Aug  7 22:28:09 2020
From: dave at druidnetworks.com (David Swanson)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 17:28:09 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOtxpwxw7jCkgp4RUDodn-0d+ReQqjFB29J+OLDJnWEAuA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADkz4c-7_PRdm=p7h1cnWPmKQBJTFhDLhD=GzFbj7qDGTn6niA@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EED2A72-4BB0-47B5-B887-E4452A75F23A@gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyWCdek=QxE9ugyizPCH7En6ALupmH_0dn=JOA+Qp+yYEA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtxpwxw7jCkgp4RUDodn-0d+ReQqjFB29J+OLDJnWEAuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANq+eyVCVUEEqHTrtT_P94jSh1ZSODrRfV3sV2+F1s3tJKsMEQ@mail.gmail.com>

Since we've also just established you are willing to lie repeatedly even in
the face of evidence to the contrary, to address ITAR, you're simply wrong.
The last organization that tried your carve out (DefDist, who you
referenced btw) ended up in Prison. Sure, he 'beat' the US State Department
on his 1 little point, but 30+ State Attorney generals then went after him,
and trumped up charges completely unrelated to his ITAR fight, came out of
left field and got him. There is no "winning" when you make something
political - one way or another city hall will always get even. Since I'm
sure you'll just dig in with your typical "NUH UH" BS if you so righteously
believe you can get away with open sourcing everything, then why not take
ORI there and prove AMSAT wrong.... You of course won't, because you
wouldn't be able to walk away after 2 years and claim success while never
seeing something thru. You'd rather goad AMSAT into picking the fight,
claim how you 'invented' something and then move on to your next pot to
stir while AMSAT is left holding the bag.

In case this last lie wasn't enough, how about your claim that ARISS walked
away? Lie. How about the lie that people have been blocked from seeing the
BoD minutes? Lie. How about the lie about Brennen being pressured this
year? I mean seriously dude, do you actually know how to tell the truth? So
why in the world would we trust anything you have to say about ITAR?

-Dave, KG5CCI

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 4:32 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:

> I made "numerous legal threats"? I don't think so.
>
> Given what a tremendous whopper that one is, I can't attach any
> credibility to the rest of your statement, except for one thing:
>
> It is true that Michelle and Patrick, and for that matter I, feel that
> AMSAT's NDAs prevent it from being able to achieve a workable ITAR strategy.
>
> You simply can't use the ITAR 120.11 and EAR 734.7 carve-outs AND have
> secret or proprietary portions of any technology listed under the United
> States Munitions List. Once there is secret or proprietary technology, all
> of the nasty restrictions of ITAR are unavoidable.
>
> It is possible to deal with secrets outside of the technology, such as
> launch schedules, and it is possible to compartmentalize some
> ITAR-protected information, for example technology specific to the launch
> which is not necessary for broader cooperations  such as designing and
> constructing a satellite.
>
> Thus it is necessary for AMSAT to examine all existing NDAs, separate
> itself from ones that are no longer necessary, and carefully
> compartmentalize any which need to stand for the moment. Michelle and
> Patrick attempted to initiate this process, but have been blocked.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bruce
>
>
>

From bruce at perens.com  Fri Aug  7 22:41:22 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 15:41:22 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CANq+eyW5fyM7oWUvXP80xJcCp=RTd4bC5ZQjQfv4CLEvZGAgug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADkz4c-7_PRdm=p7h1cnWPmKQBJTFhDLhD=GzFbj7qDGTn6niA@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EED2A72-4BB0-47B5-B887-E4452A75F23A@gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyWCdek=QxE9ugyizPCH7En6ALupmH_0dn=JOA+Qp+yYEA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtxpwxw7jCkgp4RUDodn-0d+ReQqjFB29J+OLDJnWEAuA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyW5fyM7oWUvXP80xJcCp=RTd4bC5ZQjQfv4CLEvZGAgug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOs9_kzB_LqX2UhvGrp7GQZ1U9aK1FP6xey=aRPLWd-biw@mail.gmail.com>

I haven't been deleting tweets, so send the URLs. Screenshots are easy to
fake.

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 3:36 PM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Man I was hoping you'd deny this one.
>
> July 19, 2019 @bruceperens "Or, Mark, would you like to discuss this issue
> before a fair legal expert? Courts have judges whose job it is to enforce
> by-laws of corporations. I think you should back down and admit fault
> before you are in a lot more hot water".
>
> I can post screenshots if you'd like, but the thread doesn't get much
> better from there.
>
> -Dave, KG5CCI
>
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 4:32 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>
> > I made "numerous legal threats"? I don't think so.
> >
> > Given what a tremendous whopper that one is, I can't attach any
> > credibility to the rest of your statement, except for one thing:
> >
> > It is true that Michelle and Patrick, and for that matter I, feel that
> > AMSAT's NDAs prevent it from being able to achieve a workable ITAR
> strategy.
> >
> > You simply can't use the ITAR 120.11 and EAR 734.7 carve-outs AND have
> > secret or proprietary portions of any technology listed under the United
> > States Munitions List. Once there is secret or proprietary technology,
> all
> > of the nasty restrictions of ITAR are unavoidable.
> >
> > It is possible to deal with secrets outside of the technology, such as
> > launch schedules, and it is possible to compartmentalize some
> > ITAR-protected information, for example technology specific to the launch
> > which is not necessary for broader cooperations  such as designing and
> > constructing a satellite.
> >
> > Thus it is necessary for AMSAT to examine all existing NDAs, separate
> > itself from ones that are no longer necessary, and carefully
> > compartmentalize any which need to stand for the moment. Michelle and
> > Patrick attempted to initiate this process, but have been blocked.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From vincenzo.mezzalira at unipd.it  Fri Aug  7 22:50:04 2020
From: vincenzo.mezzalira at unipd.it (Vincenzo Mezzalira)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2020 00:50:04 +0200
Subject: [amsat-bb] FT-736 power supply part.
In-Reply-To: <2dac132b-29bd-706a-3a32-d7cb681dc833@k6ccc.org>
References: <5.2.1.1.2.20200807155811.021234e8@pop.earthlink.net>
	<2dac132b-29bd-706a-3a32-d7cb681dc833@k6ccc.org>
Message-ID: <dd54e0fd-1525-5ba4-a469-dd39640685c0@unipd.it>

Hi Vince.

I don't think NEC thyristor 6P4M is in production yet but futurlec.com 
seems to have it in stock.

Hope this helps.

73 Vincenzo IW3FOL

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"La vita e' come l'impronta che lascia una gru solitaria sulla neve,
visibile per un attimo e poi non piu'"
                                                            (Su Dongpo)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vincenzo Mezzalira
Universita' di Padova
Dipartimento di Fisica e Astronomia
Vicolo dell'Osservatorio n. 3
35122 PADOVA
ITALY
tel. +39-0498278249
fax  +39-0498278212


From dave at druidnetworks.com  Fri Aug  7 22:53:17 2020
From: dave at druidnetworks.com (David Swanson)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 17:53:17 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOs9_kzB_LqX2UhvGrp7GQZ1U9aK1FP6xey=aRPLWd-biw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADkz4c-7_PRdm=p7h1cnWPmKQBJTFhDLhD=GzFbj7qDGTn6niA@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EED2A72-4BB0-47B5-B887-E4452A75F23A@gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyWCdek=QxE9ugyizPCH7En6ALupmH_0dn=JOA+Qp+yYEA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtxpwxw7jCkgp4RUDodn-0d+ReQqjFB29J+OLDJnWEAuA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyW5fyM7oWUvXP80xJcCp=RTd4bC5ZQjQfv4CLEvZGAgug@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOs9_kzB_LqX2UhvGrp7GQZ1U9aK1FP6xey=aRPLWd-biw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANq+eyVJGq7TPtz7sFenpLidrBF=C2CMiMfkH8qA-3fV6KWXPg@mail.gmail.com>

I can't post a link Bruce, you've blocked me on twitter. Just like Michelle
blocked me last year and swears she didn't, or it must have been a twitter
bug or something. Now I'm being accused of faking screenshots. When it
comes to you and your party up is down, left is right, and Oceania has
always been at war with Eastasia. Keep repeating your lies enough, and the
plebes will fall in line. Orwell would be so proud.

-Dave, KG5CCI

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 5:42 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:

> I haven't been deleting tweets, so send the URLs. Screenshots are easy to
> fake.
>
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 3:36 PM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> Man I was hoping you'd deny this one.
>>
>> July 19, 2019 @bruceperens "Or, Mark, would you like to discuss this issue
>> before a fair legal expert? Courts have judges whose job it is to enforce
>> by-laws of corporations. I think you should back down and admit fault
>> before you are in a lot more hot water".
>>
>> I can post screenshots if you'd like, but the thread doesn't get much
>> better from there.
>>
>> -Dave, KG5CCI
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 4:32 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I made "numerous legal threats"? I don't think so.
>> >
>> > Given what a tremendous whopper that one is, I can't attach any
>> > credibility to the rest of your statement, except for one thing:
>> >
>> > It is true that Michelle and Patrick, and for that matter I, feel that
>> > AMSAT's NDAs prevent it from being able to achieve a workable ITAR
>> strategy.
>> >
>> > You simply can't use the ITAR 120.11 and EAR 734.7 carve-outs AND have
>> > secret or proprietary portions of any technology listed under the United
>> > States Munitions List. Once there is secret or proprietary technology,
>> all
>> > of the nasty restrictions of ITAR are unavoidable.
>> >
>> > It is possible to deal with secrets outside of the technology, such as
>> > launch schedules, and it is possible to compartmentalize some
>> > ITAR-protected information, for example technology specific to the
>> launch
>> > which is not necessary for broader cooperations  such as designing and
>> > constructing a satellite.
>> >
>> > Thus it is necessary for AMSAT to examine all existing NDAs, separate
>> > itself from ones that are no longer necessary, and carefully
>> > compartmentalize any which need to stand for the moment. Michelle and
>> > Patrick attempted to initiate this process, but have been blocked.
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Bruce
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>

From w9gb at icloud.com  Fri Aug  7 23:06:41 2020
From: w9gb at icloud.com (Gregory Beat)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 18:06:41 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] FT-736 power supply part
Message-ID: <C035113B-2B35-4852-9172-523ECF25020C@icloud.com>

DL7VHF placed the FT-736R SMPS schematic diagram on Last Pages
http://www.catlog.net/_Descarregas/Manuals/03-Yaesu/Yaesu%20FT-736R-PS-Repair.pdf

SCR21 : marked: TH21 5P4M
NEC 5P4M, 5A, 400V Thyristor in a TO-220 case, 
==
Possible substitutes: Phillips BT258-500R , STMicroelectronics TYN608
https://www.digikey.com/products/en/discrete-semiconductor-products/thyristors-scrs/281

NTE 5424 appears to be suitable substitute.
https://www.nteinc.com/specs/5400to5499/pdf/nte5424.pdf

Digi-Key F7250-ND (Littlefuse S4008LTP)
SCR 400V, 8A Standard Recovery, TO-220AB-L, Isolated Tab
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/littelfuse-inc/S4008LTP/F7250-ND/5819416
Littlefuse Data Sheet
https://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/electronics/datasheets/switching_thyristors/littelfuse_thyristor_sxx08xsx_sxx08x_datasheet.pdf.pdf

greg
w9gb
===
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2020 16:04:16 -0600
From: "Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL" <vlfiscus at mcn.net>
To: AMSAT-BB
Subject: [amsat-bb] FT-736 power supply part

Hi All,

I walked into the shack about a month ago and smelled something
really hot like the smell from a hot resistor.  Turned off all
the equipment waited a while then turned everything back on.

The FT-736 didn't come back on, so I assumed the power supply,
as this is a common problem with the rigs as they get older.

Bought a repair replacement kit for the electrolytic caps
in the power supply, which is normally the problem. They get
baked and fail.

Got the power supply out last night to do the repairs and
I discovered it was the SCR in the power supply that had
totally burned up. Weird.

Does anyone here have or know a Digi-key or Mouser part
number for the SCR or an equivalent compatible part?
It labeled SCR21 on P.C. board.

Thanks
Vince 

From bruce at perens.com  Fri Aug  7 23:16:32 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 16:16:32 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CANq+eyVCVUEEqHTrtT_P94jSh1ZSODrRfV3sV2+F1s3tJKsMEQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADkz4c-7_PRdm=p7h1cnWPmKQBJTFhDLhD=GzFbj7qDGTn6niA@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EED2A72-4BB0-47B5-B887-E4452A75F23A@gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyWCdek=QxE9ugyizPCH7En6ALupmH_0dn=JOA+Qp+yYEA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtxpwxw7jCkgp4RUDodn-0d+ReQqjFB29J+OLDJnWEAuA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyVCVUEEqHTrtT_P94jSh1ZSODrRfV3sV2+F1s3tJKsMEQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOtVD=8DmXypO1bQVNUM9LQz+-WVXD5Q2ioT4r8fU+R27g@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 3:42 PM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Sure, he 'beat' the US State Department
> on his 1 little point, but 30+ State Attorney generals then went after him,
> and trumped up charges completely unrelated to his ITAR fight, came out of
> left field and got him.


So let's get this straight. Cody Wilson was sentenced to 7 years probation,
not prison, after he pleaded guilty to having sex with an underage girl.
There was plea-bargaining involved. However, it is really far from a sure
thing that this has anything to do with the defense distributed case.

To extend your argument, you are arguing that we should not use the
explicit carve-outs in ITAR and EAR because a state, not even the federal
government, might thus be inspired to bring specious sexual assault charges
against AMSAT.

I think it's fair to say this is out of left field conspiracy theorism
rather than any sort of legal strategy.

how about your claim that ARISS walked away?


I wrote that I was going to assume they walked off until told otherwise.
This falls pretty far short of a "claim". Frank immediately corrected me
and I accepted his correction quite publicly.

 How about the lie about Brennen being pressured this year?
>

You mean "Brennan". His reply was: "I have made decisions on a number of
issues that warranted discussion both before and after the fact, and I
believe I've made at least one call with which every candidate would have
rather me made another by now. These discussions, even when ending in
disagreement, have universally been conducted with professionalism and in
the absence of the vigor that one may detect here."

I also accepted Brennan's report quite publicly.

In both cases I said something a little inflammatory in order to draw out
the people involved to make their own reports. It worked in both cases.
When they made those reports, I was quick to publicly show my acceptance
and support of them. This is a strategy I learned in rhetorics class. Yes,
it's manipulative. No, its purpose is not to propagate a lie.

Thanks

Bruce

>

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 23:30:57 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 19:30:57 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOu1xTp7W=K0kfmwd8FYzzGbqWDr5voAtk8m3Y447SDCKA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADkz4c-7_PRdm=p7h1cnWPmKQBJTFhDLhD=GzFbj7qDGTn6niA@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EED2A72-4BB0-47B5-B887-E4452A75F23A@gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c9q9Vrm17wkgbFAA1JRBrgmAdXz+hGwKAgp-n9=KrhhsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOu1xTp7W=K0kfmwd8FYzzGbqWDr5voAtk8m3Y447SDCKA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c9t=QEROoW-u7q-E=JELHe8PUk=YtsuUwcOtoBBXVWHxw@mail.gmail.com>

Bruce,

I'll be Frank with you (no pun intended...).  But, I really had to take a
deep breath just now and release it slowly a few times, and re-read this
email, completely, before sending it... I witnessed my dad being shot in an
armed robbery down in liberty city (south FL) when I was 9 years old.  It
happened at my grandmas house on the car port, right across miami dade
community college, south campus.  My dad took a point blank bullet to the
head after we got home from picking up groceries.  So, no... a police
officer never kneeled on MY neck but I have seen the absolute worst that
humanity has to offer.  And I treat every single human, with the same
suspicion that those guys instilled in me on that day while approaching my
family up the driveway.  He was shot for $0.75c out of my moms purse.  Oh!
And, the officers falsely accused my parents of a drug-deal gone bad...
which was a false accusation.... But, this didn't make me hate every gun
owner, nor police officer on Earth.

That being said, I really had no opportunities of doing any amateur radio
stuff as a kid or through college mostly due to life circumstances /
finance.  I graduated from high school in 1999, graduated from UCF in
2004.  At UCF I hung out with many of the HAMs there, hung out in the
physics lab, hacked at code/hardware with many... This is back when the
amateur radio group was on the top floor of the math and physics building
at UCF and when the campus administration allowed antennas on top of the
building and allowed the club to maintain them.  I remember going to the
top of the building and looking down, it was cool!  I remember at some
point, the administration people told the club they had to take their
antennas down because they "didn't like the view" from the admin building
(which was within their view across the reflection pond in front of the
library).  I wasn't very involved with radio much back then, but I remember
hearing my friends complain and thinking to myself "these admin people are
really angry about people wanting to mess with radio at a college
campus??!? Don't they have better things to worry about?!?!?"  It was
wrong, but I didn't know any better at the time and didn't bother trying to
do anything about it.  I was busy just trying to pass my classes... In the
end, the antennas had to be moved.  Looking back at this now, I feel this
was a failure of UCF Administration.  UCF gets a lot of attention today and
they are my school, but they really screwed the amateur radio club there
when I was present and i'll never forget that.  The location of the ham
club was perfect and so was the location of the antennas, admin really
destroyed a perfectly good thing, in the name of "looking nice".  At that
time in college, I was never really motivated to get a license for any
reason (it cost $).  I worked the entire time throughout college, various
jobs, from LA Fittness, Barnes and Noble, the math lab at UCF, the computer
labs on campus, as a teaching assistant and a programmer at the Institute
for Simulation and Training here in Orlando.  After I graduated college, I
started working, got married and started a family around 2007.  We took a
vacation and my uncle was showing me his ham HF equipment (this was in a
different country in south america) while I was on vacation, which really
got me interested in it.  After that exposure, I decided to get my license
when I returned and I got serious about it.  After contacting a local
amateur radio club about getting a license, there were some AMSAT guys
there and they took me under their wing... without any reservation.  And
let me be clear, Several AMSAT Volunteers (and club members) took me under
their wing and taught me almost everything I know about radio)..  These
"OLD" volunteers taught me machining, tons of interesting electronics/fab
tricks, propagation, network analyzer intricacies, cable creation.  These
people asked for nothing in return, Nothing!!  These are really amazing,
giving, people.  I even went to a teach-in with a few people at a school
here in Orlando with the local school.  This group of people exposed me to
a world of knowledge that I did not receive as a kid in high school or even
in college.  I went through an entire computer science program, with all
the math / physics (more graduate level than most), and never was exposed
to RF.... Really... AMSAT (and the local amateur radio groups) are really
the root-cause of my advancement.  And, AMSAT was the primer.

On a side-note, they also exposed me to what it means to volunteer for
something.  What it actually means to volunteer.  I had never seen people
'donate time' or 'donate effort' ever in my youth, because that concept
didn't exist... I don't know if many on the -b actually get this or not,
but everyone I observed in my youth was always just working and focused on
surviving financially.  The volunteers at AMSAT, were just giving awaytheir
time, for the love of the game.... to a bunch of people they didn't
know!!!!  Umm... that's an incredible concept.  Time is the most valuable
commodity in life, hence, why I feel the way I do.  I've seen nothing but
positive, constructive, helpful representation from AMSAT.  And, I am
indebted to the individuals and organization for this and I will be for the
rest of my life.  If I didn't feel this way, I wouldn't spend my time
writing this (and i'm a fast typer, average 110wpm on my daily keyboard, 80
maybe on someone else' without practice).

So, fast-foward to 2014 and right now.  I'm not a hundred-thousandaire or
millionaire, but I run my own small business, have employees and I am
focused on software + hardware + machining.  Some of the skills that I
utilize now, I picked up as a result of these "old guys" who volunteered
their time to teach me.  So many people at AMSAT donated their time,
to unknowingly Educate me, in one way or another.  AMSAT has an absolutely
amazing conglomeration of personalities, engineering experiences, political
beliefs, technical and non-technical experiences.  None of these should be
overshadowed.  Many people in AMSAT have really changed my life and I know
that I am not the only one that feels this way.  As a result, I take all of
this very personally.  Maybe this is just my own experience and maybe i'm
the only one... but.. None of these people hired lawyers against me, ever.

Like anything else in life, all that really matters is the people.  I hope
the people that prevail in this election are able to propagate the same
characteristics and values that the people of AMSAT have shown me in the
past.

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 5:42 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 2:11 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> This sure makes me wonder, why didn't AMSAT ever do this against me or the
>> tons of volunteers and engineers before me?  You can't tell me this is the
>> first case of some problem...
>>
>
> Joseph,
>
> And no police officer ever kneeled on _your_ neck, or your friends, so it
> must be the Black person's problem, right?
>
> It's the exact same argument.
>
> There has been no shortage of conflict between AMSAT management and
> volunteers. I have a long list of people whom I know were the major
> developers of previous AMSAT missions, who we don't see here any longer.
>
> As I said previously, no one hired lawyers against you because you did not
> act as opposition to the incumbent board.
>
>>

From wb3csy at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 23:31:01 2020
From: wb3csy at gmail.com (Rick Walter)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 19:31:01 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] FS: 2019-2020 AMSAT Journal (4 issues)
In-Reply-To: <CAHC1P29h9Jphsguap7FhCY=m1AEs--Oth5GsYPCPFepe0ZcWrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHC1P29h9Jphsguap7FhCY=m1AEs--Oth5GsYPCPFepe0ZcWrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJckjgP1F7hQTBL5U_8gqpjgKXiC6QcB3jN40i4iiSUrSvNshQ@mail.gmail.com>

John, I assume you realize members can download them for free.
RIck

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 5:23 PM John Geiger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

>  I have for sale 4 issues of the AMSAT journal from 2019-2020, which
> include the July/August 2019, September/October 2019, November/December
> 2019, and January/February 2020 issues. These are all in good condition and
> contain lots of good information about the satellites and amateur radio in
> space. I am asking $12 shipped for the set and can take paypal/check/MO.
>
> 73 John AF5CC
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
Sent from Rick's gmail account

From vlfiscus at mcn.net  Sat Aug  8 00:56:27 2020
From: vlfiscus at mcn.net (Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2020 18:56:27 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] FT-736 power supply part. Thanks everyone.
In-Reply-To: <46a96ffa-cb48-8031-9c2f-3960696921c3@gmail.com>
References: <5.2.1.1.2.20200807155811.021234e8@pop.earthlink.net>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20200807155811.021234e8@pop.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20200807182305.0212f9e0@pop.earthlink.net>

At 03:23 PM 8/7/2020 -0700, wa7fwf at gmail.com wrote:
>Vince,
>?  The SCR looks to be the crowbar for a overvoltage, you may have 
>something else wrong also.
>
>http://radioaficion.com/mods/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/DL7VHFs-FT-736R-modified-PSU-schematic.gif
>
>There is the schematic for a 736R, not sure what the R difference is but 
>it lists your SCR as a 5P4M, a google search shows many available.
>
>73
>Kevin


Thanks Kevin,
and everyone else for the help,  I have all schematics
and original manuals for the rig, but didn't have one for the
PSU. Ha, Murphy's law

I think the reason the SCR finally gave out,  was I kept the radio
on 24/7, and there is a lot of heat in it any way. I need to make
up a 12V power cord so I can power it externally.

And Talk about good luck, I also noticed I can buy the SCR on ebay,
NEC brand.

Thanks again everyone for all the help.

73


From bruce at perens.com  Sat Aug  8 00:03:53 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 17:03:53 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c9t=QEROoW-u7q-E=JELHe8PUk=YtsuUwcOtoBBXVWHxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADkz4c-7_PRdm=p7h1cnWPmKQBJTFhDLhD=GzFbj7qDGTn6niA@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EED2A72-4BB0-47B5-B887-E4452A75F23A@gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c9q9Vrm17wkgbFAA1JRBrgmAdXz+hGwKAgp-n9=KrhhsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOu1xTp7W=K0kfmwd8FYzzGbqWDr5voAtk8m3Y447SDCKA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c9t=QEROoW-u7q-E=JELHe8PUk=YtsuUwcOtoBBXVWHxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOtUhEpjTXw6+KZcaaUZVveYxdzcVT1bJpp1A=B-PS9A5w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 4:29 PM Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I have seen the absolute worst that humanity has to offer.
>

Gosh, that is a horrible story and I am so sorry to hear that this happened
to you. I also watched my father die, much too young, in front of me. But
not from violence. Still, you never really recover.

My personal story of injustice is about being put, without examination, in
the "retarded" children's class on my first day in school. I had speech and
motor deficits and a 140 IQ at the time. They didn't tell my parents. They
did not teach reading. I had no idea, as a  first grader, what to expect
and my parents did not find out until they realized that my description of
my classmates was unusual. I got out eventually, but the injustice and
damage continued.

Having been completely failed by the formal educational system, Amateur
Radio was an important part in my self-education. It was through
self-education that I got to work for Pixar and later was a computer
science and public policy researcher and lecturer at three colleges,
despite my lack of a degree and without ever having taken the first formal
class in those things.

> Many people in AMSAT have really changed my life and I know that I am not
the only one that feels this way.
> As a result, I take all of this very personally.  Maybe this is just my
own experience and maybe i'm the only one... but..
> None of these people hired lawyers against me, ever.

People have very definitely hired lawyers for the purpose of suppressing my
speech. The fact that I won the case and recovered my defense costs, which
were well over my usual year's income, should be sufficient proof that
justice was not on their side. So, I hope you can understand that I take
that sort of legal attack every bit as personally.

Michelle and Patrick will not have to win any case, but the board's
handling of opposition was IMO very ill-conceived. You are attempting to
support that with an argument that nobody would accept in a court room, and
that is fundamentally ad-hominem. You can expect others to take offense
when you use it, and to show it in the light of the worse elements of
society that have historically used it. I suggest that you not make a third
repetition of this argument if you don't want to hear the rebuttal again.

    Thanks

    Bruce

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Sat Aug  8 04:35:37 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2020 23:35:37 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] FT-736 power supply part. Thanks everyone.
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20200807182305.0212f9e0@pop.earthlink.net>
References: <5.2.1.1.2.20200807155811.021234e8@pop.earthlink.net>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20200807155811.021234e8@pop.earthlink.net>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20200807182305.0212f9e0@pop.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <C8A18775-CD13-415E-B4D3-ACA831990613@pobox.com>

> And Talk about good luck, I also noticed I can buy the SCR on ebay, NEC brand.

A word of warning about eBay and out of production parts: a not-insignificant number of those are fakes.

The SCR isn't very specialized, so pick something with equivalent specs from Digikey or Mouser. They should be very cheap, and it saves you from doing the job twice when the fake one fails.

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From jeff30339 at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 08:11:11 2020
From: jeff30339 at gmail.com (Jeff Johns)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2020 03:11:11 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Forensic Accounting
Message-ID: <EF61DE10-A0E7-4BA6-87D0-0CFCF488B903@gmail.com>

Do any of the legacy, BoDs or Officers, who are running for re-election against me want to join me to call for a full forensic accounting of AMSAT?s finances? 

Many members want this to occur. No matter the cost, it seems to me this would help to remove the cloud that is currently hovering over AMSAT. 

Anyone?

If elected, I would make a motion for this to occur. I am committed to full transparency for the organization. A full financial audit including an full inventory of all assets of AMSAT would go a long way towards rebuilding the trust of members. 

Jeff WE4B 
http://we4bravo.com 

From vlfiscus at mcn.net  Sat Aug  8 16:19:41 2020
From: vlfiscus at mcn.net (Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2020 10:19:41 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] FT-736 power supply part.
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20200807182305.0212f9e0@pop.earthlink.net>
References: <46a96ffa-cb48-8031-9c2f-3960696921c3@gmail.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20200807155811.021234e8@pop.earthlink.net>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20200807155811.021234e8@pop.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20200808100929.02123ba8@pop.earthlink.net>


There is also a capacitor C24 that's mounted right
next to where the hot SCR was,  I think that should
be replaced to as it looks baked.  Anyone have
recommendation on what type of capacitor I should
use that can withstand the heat?

KB7ADL


From vlfiscus at mcn.net  Sat Aug  8 18:01:13 2020
From: vlfiscus at mcn.net (Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2020 12:01:13 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] FT-736 power supply part.
In-Reply-To: <a65cda97-4d29-6e49-0439-cf8596b6bec8@embarqmail.com>
References: <5.2.1.1.2.20200808100929.02123ba8@pop.earthlink.net>
	<46a96ffa-cb48-8031-9c2f-3960696921c3@gmail.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20200807155811.021234e8@pop.earthlink.net>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20200807155811.021234e8@pop.earthlink.net>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20200808100929.02123ba8@pop.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20200808114739.0213e500@pop.earthlink.net>

At 12:06 PM 8/8/2020 -0400, you wrote:
>Your request for info on that part made me look at the parts list I have 
>had for close to 20 years.
>I don't think I ever used it for capacitor info as it was always available 
>on the capacitor.
>I see my information (provided by another ham) isn't accurate on some of 
>the caps.
>It is also possible the info was correct for the P.S. he had, as Yaesu 
>changed many things on the
>736 and didn't document them all.
>
>Looks like I can't totally trust the parts list....sorry
>
>? 73
>Richard / K4RTS


Hi Richard,
No problem.  C24 isn't ceramic.  I've been studying
the components on that side of the schematic to see what other
component could have failed to cause the SCR to blow. If C24
got hot and shorted, I wonder if that could have done it.

The 736 is in fine shape, I hooked it to an external supply
and current draw was normal.   The bad part of all this
is that my eyesight is not as good as it was 25 years ago. :-)

73


From w3ab at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  8 19:07:02 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (GEO Badger)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2020 19:07:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] ONE INDIVIDUAL'S VIEW
References: <1782349383.1932031.1596913622083.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1782349383.1932031.1596913622083@mail.yahoo.com>

 
Hello,

I was born the eldest of four into a?prosperous WASP familyin southern Cali. I?squandered pretty much every opportunity?given tome, a West Point appointment, a scholarship to Virginia Tech, those sortsof?things. We moved a lot so I never really developed any long termfriendships. I received many?"citations? during my four years inthe?military. However, those where not the kind?you wear on youruniform, they were Article?15's of the Uniform Code of Military?Justice.I wasn't at the "appointed place at the appointed time". I chafe atauthority.

Upon my honorable discharge from the?military I returned toCali and pretty much?lived as a 1%'er for a few years. In 1980?SiliconValley called and I went to work as?a design engineer to VP of Engineeringfor a number of tech firms?in the valley. They included TeledyneMEC,?M/A-COM, ThermoFisher Scientific and MBARI?among others.

During that time I became a pillar in the?community, whoknew, and was, and still am,?involved with non-profits, all501(c)(3)?orgs. Additionally, my wife, MBA in Non-Profit Management fromthe Anderson School?of UCLA, has been intimately involved in all?aspectsof non-profits. She is currently?assisting Burning Man in its transitionfrom a?LLC to a 501(c)(3). This has been a?difficult process fraughtwith politics and?leadership issues. Hmmm.

Now, about Amsat: Amsat is not a?corporation. It has nocompensated senior?management, it doesn't issue stock and it can't?besold, taken over or merged. What Amsat is; a club chartered/incorporated underthe?articles of 501(c) paragraph 3 which?stipulates that it can be aneducational?org. Donations can be deducted from the donor?s?taxes. A(7) is a social club?and donations may not be deducted. You've no?doubtheard of political non-profits, the?donations to them may not be deductedbut?they are used to shield where their money?that they distributecomes from.

Amsat was chartered in 1969 and IMHO the?by-laws are out ofdate. The mission?statement and by-laws need to be revamped.?Thereneeds to be more members on the BOD.?The served terms should be 3 years.There?should be term limits so current members?rotate off. Thisinsures there is no?entrenchment of an "old guard" and thereis?an infusion of new ideas and talent.

?Is Amateur Radio growing? I have no idea,?nor does anyoneelse. Is Amsat growing??Same. The satellite biz has changed?dramatically.It has become VERY commercialized. I posted an email from a knowledgeable?outsideobserver a while back that discussed?this.

?Is there anyone on the BOD or within the GM,?who can pick upa phone and make a personal?call to Jeff Bezos, Dmitry Rogozin,Richard?Branson, Elon Musk, Hiroshi Yamakawa, Jim?Bridenstine, orZhang Kejian? I hesitate to?guess that the answer is "No",though I?threw a ringer in there. These are all young people who wereprobably born after 1969.

?How does Amsat move forward? Amsat needs to?have a dynamicBOD who operates in a fair,?honest and open manner and is willing to?revampthe mission statement and by-laws to?reflect an exciting organizationfocused on?education. The GM needs to be invited to BOD meetings and seethe results of said?meetings. By meeting with any/all of the?aboveindividuals, Amsat can show them that?the club is providing the interestand?educational directions for young people to?become the newengineers/scientists that?these space organizations are going to?requireto be viable in the future.

?BTW, status quo, anger, personal attacks?and/or the airing ofdirty laundry is the?antithesis to Amsat moving forward.

?Just sayin??..

---??
 Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side??
73 de W3AB/GEO ??? 

 http://www.w3ab.org

You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out".

From ke4al at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  8 20:17:59 2020
From: ke4al at yahoo.com (Robert Bankston)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2020 20:17:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] ONE INDIVIDUAL'S VIEW
In-Reply-To: <1782349383.1932031.1596913622083@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1782349383.1932031.1596913622083.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1782349383.1932031.1596913622083@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1536964495.1941152.1596917879732@mail.yahoo.com>

AMSAT, formally known as the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation, is a nonprofit corporation, pursuant to the District of Columbia Non-profit Corporation Act.
??
AMSAT was organized as an exempt organization under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, exclusively for scientific purposes.? It was not organized as nor does it operate as a club or an educational organization.
??
Furthermore, there is no legal requirement for a nonprofit corporation to issue shares or have compensated management.
??
To say otherwise is completely false!
??
AMSAT does have a dynamic Board of Directors, and it does operate in a fair, honest, and open manner.? The few members who state otherwise are being disengenuous for their own political purpose.? The few others are only parroting what they have been told.
??
You are correct that the space industry has changed dramatically, due in part to AMSAT's success with smallsats.? These changes have brought both regulatory and economic challenges for AMSAT.? Our Directors are well aware of this and have not only been steadfastly working to keep amateur radio in space, but, also, push the envelope of scientific discovery.
??
AMSAT is on the right path.? Through it's GOLF Program, they are working to allow us to return to HEO.? Yes, we have been there before, but not under the current regulatory environment.? In addition, GOLF satellites will include SDR technologies and microwave experimentation.
??
I am excited about AMSAT's future, and, judging by our steady growth in membership, so is everyone else.

Robert Bankston, KE4AL


From n8hm at arrl.net  Sun Aug  9 00:00:06 2020
From: n8hm at arrl.net (Paul Stoetzer)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2020 17:00:06 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] ANS-222 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletins
Message-ID: <CABzOSOpRFEug-rM8WkuvrsceF0YP-OagLUWQ85311hu_n0qjNA@mail.gmail.com>

AMSAT NEWS SERVICE
ANS-222

The AMSAT News Service bulletins are a free, weekly news and infor-
mation service of AMSAT, The Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation. ANS
publishes news related to Amateur Radio in Space including reports on
the activities of a worldwide group of Amateur Radio operators who
share an active interest in designing, building, launching and commun-
icating through analog and digital Amateur Radio satellites.

The news feed on http://www.amsat.org publishes news of Amateur
Radio in Space as soon as our volunteers can post it.

Please send any amateur satellite news or reports to:
ans-editor at amsat.org.

You can sign up for free e-mail delivery of the AMSAT News Service
Bulletins via the ANS List; to join this list see:
http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/ans



In this edition:

* German Satellite Demonstrates Orbit Control on 1U CubeSat
* AMSAT CubeSat Simulator Now Transmits SSTV
* AMSAT-UK OSCAR Satellite QSO Party Ongoing
* Hamfests, Conventions, Maker Faires, and Other Events
* Upcoming Satellite Operations
* Satellite Shorts from All Over


SB SAT @ AMSAT $ANS-222.01
ANS-222 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletins

AMSAT News Service Bulletin 208.01
 From AMSAT HQ KENSINGTON, MD.
DATE August 9, 2020
To All RADIO AMATEURS
BID: $ANS-222.01

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

         Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, the AMSAT office
    is closed until further notice. For details, please visit
  https://www.amsat.org/amsat-office-closed-until-further-notice/

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

German Satellite Demonstrates Orbit Control on 1U CubeSat

The University of Wuerzburg Experimental Satellite 4 (UWE-4) success-
fully used its propulsion system in order to conduct orbit control.
The 1-unit (1U) CubeSat is equipped with an electric propulsion system
called NanoFEEP, developed by the Technical University in Dresden.
This marks the first time in CubeSat history that a 1U CubeSat has
changed its orbit using an onboard propulsion system. Several man-
euvers were performed within 11 days, between June 23 and July 3,
lowering the CubeSat's altitude by more than 100 meters (328 feet),
compared to an average of 21 meters (69 feet) with natural orbital
decay.

Coincidentally, on July 2, the UWE-4 team received a "conjunction data
message" from the US Air Force, indicating a potential safety threat
from a non-operational Iridium satellite, although UWE-4 was already
below the Iridium satellite at the projected time of conjunction.

Lowering the altitude of a spacecraft in low-Earth orbit (LEO) has the
negative effect of reducing its lifetime, because low-Earth-orbiting
(LEO) satellites usually burn up during re-entry. "Thus, this exper-
iment is a concept demonstration of a deorbiting maneuver shown at the
smallest class of spacecraft in LEO," the university said.

While satellites are not yet required to carry propulsion systems to
facilitate a planned deorbiting, such an obligation is under serious
discussion, due to the vastly increasing number of satellites in mega
constellations. "The experiment of UWE-4 presents a deorbiting sol-
ution for the fraction of space debris of operational, but unused,
satellites of today and for the mega constellations of tomorrow," the
university said. AMSAT notes that US regulations make the ability to
deorbit a requirement for high-Earth-orbit amateur satellites in the
future.

The first activation of the NanoFEEP thruster on UWE-4 took place in
early 2019. UWE-4 transmits telemetry on 435.600 MHz.

[ANS thanks the ARRL for the above information]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

           Purchase AMSAT Gear on our Zazzle storefront.
          25% of the purchase price of each product goes
            towards Keeping Amateur Radio in Space
              https://www.zazzle.com/amsat_gear

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

AMSAT CubeSat Simulator Now Transmits SSTV

Did you have fun receiving SSTV images from the ISS this past week?
A new development branch of the AMSAT CubeSat Simulator now transmits
SSTV images! See https://github.com/alanbjohnston/CubeSatSim/tree/dev
for details.

A video of FlatSat testing can be found at:
https://twitter.com/CubeSatSim/status/1291493708488232964

More information about the AMSAT CubeSat Simulator project can be
found at http://cubesatsim.com/


[ANS thanks Alan Johnston, KU2Y, AMSAT Vice President - Educational
Relatioons, for the above information]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

AMSAT's GOLF Program is about getting back to higher orbits, and it
all begins with GOLF-TEE ? a technology demonstrator for deployable
solar panels, propulsion, and attitude control. Come along for the
ride. The journey will be worth it!

                  https://tinyurl.com/ANS-GOLF

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+


AMSAT-UK OSCAR Satellite QSO Party Ongoing

The objective of the AMSAT-UK OSCAR Satellite QSO Party is to
encourage all radio amateurs around the world to get on the air and
make contacts via satellites during northern hemisphere summer. We
would like to attract both seasoned die-hard operators as well as all
newcomers who are just getting involved.

While points are given per QSO this isn?t a contest, but we hope it
will encourage people to get on the air and enjoy the excitement of
making contacts through satellites.

The AMSAT-UK OSCAR Satellite QSO Party will be supported by an online
leaderboard which will be available from the start of the event which
runs from 00:00 GMT on 1st August until 23:59 GMT on 22nd September.

Prizes will be awarded to those from first to thirteenth place and
are open to both AMSAT-UK and non-members around the world.

? First Place ?250 Amazon Voucher
? Second Place ?150 Amazon Voucher
? Third Place ?50 Amazon Voucher
? Fourth to Thirteenth Place One Year AMSAT-UK Membership

Download the rules for the AMSAT-UK OSCAR QSO Party at
https://tinyurl.com/OSCAR-QSO-Party

Leaderboard https://leaderboard.amsat-uk.org/

[ANS thanks AMSAT-UK for the above information]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Hamfests, Conventions, Maker Faires, and Other Events

Want to see AMSAT in action or learn more about amateur radio in
space?

AMSAT Ambassadors provide presentations, demonstrate communicating
through amateur satellites, and host information tables at club
meetings, hamfests, conventions, maker faires, and other events.

Due to COVID-19, many hamfest and events around the United States have
been canceled or postponed. While we make every effort to ensure the
information contained below is correct, there may be some that we
missed.

QSO Today Virtual Ham Expo - August 9, 2020
Tom Schuessler, N5HYP, will present "Getting Started with Amateur
Radio Satellites" at 22:45 UTC. Details on accessing this presentation
at https://www.qsotodayhamexpo.com/.


[ANS thanks Robert Bankston, KE4AL, AMSAT Vice President - User
Services, for the above information]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

    Need new satellite antennas? Purchase Arrows, Alaskan Arrows,
   and M2 LEO-Packs from the AMSAT Store. When you purchase through
          AMSAT, a portion of the proceeds goes towards
                 Keeping Amateur Radio in Space.
           https://amsat.org/product-category/hardware/

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

Upcoming Satellite Operations

Misc Items:
Do you need Hawaii? NH7WN on AO-7 Most days. Reach out for a schedule

Quick Hits:
EM50, EM51 8/8 ? 8/9 @KB5FHK is heading home to MS!
DM59, 8/8 ? 8/10, @Ledger (Sorry AK7DD): FM and Linear. Maybe even the
58/59 gridline.
EM22, EM23, 8/10/20 @W4IPA, heading out for a mint rove!
DM97/98 & EM08/09, 8/29 & 8/30: Super Rover @AD0DX is heading out for
the Kansas QSO party and N0E. More to come.

Major Roves:
@AD0HJ, is heading out again for the South Dakota Super Rove Part II
Grids DN73, DN82, DN83, DN92, DN93, EN02, EN03, EN12, EN24, and EN25.
August 17th through August 21st.

EA8, CANARY ISLANDS (Reminder/Satellite Op/Rare Grid). Philippe,
EA4NF, will be operating on the satellites from Lanzarote Island,
Canary Islands (AF-004, WW Loc. IL38 & IL39), as EA8/EA4NF between
August 10-17th. A special focus will be from the very rare IL39 Grid.
Portable activation will be with a FT818 and a FT817ND operating in
full Duplex with an Alaskan Arrow Antenna. Activity will be on the FM
and Linear Satellites. QSL via LoTW as EA8/EA4NF. Keep an eye on
Philippe's Twitter feed for further updates and passes at:
https://twitter.com/EA4NF_SAT

(Via the Ohio/Penn DX Bulletin #1475)

Please submit any additions or corrections to ke0pbr at gmail.com

[ANS thanks Paul Overn, KE0PBR, for the above information]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

   AMSAT, along with our ARISS partners, is developing an amateur
   radio package, including two-way communication capability, to
           be carried on-board Gateway in lunar orbit.

   Support AMSAT's projects today at https://www.amsat.org/donate/

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

Satellite Shorts From All Over

+ AMSAT Vice President - Engineering Jerry Buxton, N0JY, was the
keynote speaker at the IEEE Microwave Theory and Techniques Society's
International Microwave Symposium's Amateur Radio Social on August 4.
If video from the event is made public, it will be shared via AMSAT
social media and ANS.

+ Burns Fisher, WB1FJ, AMSAT Engineering, will deliver two
presentations at the AMSAT South Africa Symposium on August 22, 2020.
The virtual event will take place between 08:00 - 13:00 UTC. Attendees
may register at http://www.amsatsa.org.za/.

+ Several new products are available on the AMSAT Zazzle store,
including a set of coasters, a watch, a t-shirt featuring the AMSAT
round logo, and more. Check out the new items! 25% of the purchase
price goes towards Keeping Amateur Radio in Space.

+ AMSAT Remove Before Flight keychains are again available on the
AMSAT store. Purchases help Keep Amateur Radio in Space!
https://www.amsat.org/product/amsat-remove-before-flight-keychain/

+ Ballots for the 2020 AMSAT Board of Directors election were mailed
on July 14th via presorted standard mail to US addresses and via first
class mail to overseas addresses to all members in good standing as of
July 1st. Members desiring a replacement ballot package should contact
AMSAT Secretary Brennan Price, N4QX, at brennanprice at verizon.net no
earlier than August 12th. AMSAT members may log on to the membership
portal at launch.amsat.org to verify that their address was correct as
of July 1st. (via N4QX)

+ All issues of The AMSAT Journal dating back to 2014 are now
available to AMSAT members on AMSAT's new membership portal. The
1969-2013 archive will be added at a later date. All editions of
AMSAT's Symposium Proceedings are also available for members. If
you're a current AMSAT member, get logged on today. If you are not yet
a member, consider joining today at https://launch.amsat.org/

+ The 2020 edition of AMSAT?s Getting Started with Amateur Satellites
is now available on the AMSAT store. A perennial favorite, Getting
Started is updated every year with the latest amateur satellite
information, and is the premier primer of satellite operation. The
book is presented in DRM-free PDF format, in full color, and covers
all aspects of making your first contacts on a ham radio satellite.
The digital download is available for $15 at
https://tinyurl.com/2020GettingStarted

---------------------------------------------------------------------

/EX

In addition to regular membership, AMSAT offers membership in the
President's Club. Members of the President's Club, as sustaining
donors to AMSAT Project Funds, will be eligible to receive addi-
tional benefits. President's Club donations may be made at
https://tinyurl.com/ANS-PresClub.

Primary and secondary school students are eligible for membership
at one-half the standard yearly rate. Post-secondary school students
enrolled in at least half time status shall be eligible for the stu-
dent rate for a maximum of 6 post-secondary years in this status.

Join AMSAT today at https://launch.amsat.org/

73 and remember to help Keep Amateur Radio in Space,

This week's ANS Editor,

Paul Stoetzer, N8HM
n8hm at amsat dot org

From bruce at perens.com  Sun Aug  9 05:15:38 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2020 22:15:38 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is AMSAT an educational organization?
In-Reply-To: <1536964495.1941152.1596917879732@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1782349383.1932031.1596913622083.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1782349383.1932031.1596913622083@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1536964495.1941152.1596917879732@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOuML_Cjcc6THceYKKdCmiKg6X_8jwYu=E=fBneH3mbiZg@mail.gmail.com>

Robert Bankston says no. But IARU says yes! From
https://www.iaru.org/on-the-air/satellites/
"AMSAT: The Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation was first formed in the USA
in 1969 as an educational organisation".

Hmm. Is there anything to that?

The bylaws submitted with the articles of incorporation of AMSAT say
"exclusively for scientific purposes", but right after that, they say "B.
Encouraging development of skills and the advancement of specialized
knowledge in the art and practice of amateur radio communications and space
science."

That is very definitely an educational mission.

What AMSAT is _not_ is an accredited institution of higher learning, or any
other form of school that would require licensing, certification, or
accreditation. But it is educational. Surprise :-)

The rest of your message, Robert, is more denial than argument. I will
address it if you can muster a cogent argument.

Thanks

Bruce

From jeff30339 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 07:23:45 2020
From: jeff30339 at gmail.com (Jeff Johns)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 02:23:45 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
Message-ID: <C3556335-437A-4250-A1AB-DBBEFB424CCF@gmail.com>

About 24 hours ago I asked if the legacy BoD members and Officer which are running against me during this election cycle would join me to call for a full forensic accounting of AMSAT?s finances. 

The call to ask them to step-up and help ease the minds of many members was not answered. Why? It could be a myriad of things but because they will not (so far) step forward and help promote financial transparency is very disturbing. If there is nothing astray, then there would be nothing to worry about other than the cost for a third-party to perform the audit.

I will once again ask them if they are willing to move forward a motion to authorize a forensic audit of AMSAT?s finances. Along with this audit, a full inventory of all AMSAT assets should be performed. Can any BoD member tell us, the general membership, the last time an inventory was performed? I can?t find anything in any minutes that are published. It?s good business practice to perform inventories. The Treasurer, as a CPA, should be very familiar with inventory practices in business. AMSAT is a business, albeit non-profit. An inventory of physical assets would go a long way to helping to heal AMSAT by removing the cloud. 

Regardless of who wins this election, there will still be a cloud over AMSAT regarding the handling of members? monies until an independent source provides an authoritative summary of both AMSAT?s finances and physical assets. 

If elected, I would make the motion to have this occur in order to ease the minds of members and donors. This needs to happen regardless of who wins seats and I would ask all members to encourage the Board to make this happen. 

Jeff WE4B 
http://we4bravo.com

From py41 at att.net  Sun Aug  9 11:18:38 2020
From: py41 at att.net (Perry Yantis)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 11:18:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] new computer doesn't see Keyspan adapters
References: <95380976.1486341.1596971918772.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <95380976.1486341.1596971918772@mail.yahoo.com>

I have purchased a new MacBook Pro computer running Mac OS 10.15.6 with USB-C portsIt is just like my old MacBook Pro computer with USB-A ports, running the same OS except while my older computer sees my Keyspan usb to serial adaptors and gives me radio and antenna control, my new computer doesn't see these adaptors for some reason.I have went to Keyspans web page and downloaded a newer driver but still not seeing these adaptors.Does anyone else have this problem or have a solution?I will try calling Keyspan tomorrow.
Perry WB8OTH

py41 at att.net
sent from my Apple Macbook Pro

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 12:07:29 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 08:07:29 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is AMSAT an educational organization?
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOuML_Cjcc6THceYKKdCmiKg6X_8jwYu=E=fBneH3mbiZg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1782349383.1932031.1596913622083.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1782349383.1932031.1596913622083@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1536964495.1941152.1596917879732@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAK2MWOuML_Cjcc6THceYKKdCmiKg6X_8jwYu=E=fBneH3mbiZg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c__pN7D3zssRN5U-HpgJKTSrwNda8pHyeUr9wD7RQ+BoA@mail.gmail.com>

Bruce,


When people get together to start a club, let's say for woodworking or any
other craft, they likely have some gear, have some outreach taking place,
are up to doing some good and probably end up doing it because people ask
them to set up a charity so they can donate to it (for $ reasons).  That,
and maybe because it is easier to rent space, get insurance, for
activities, etc...  When most groups go to set up an entity like this, the
Articles of Incorporation, Bylaws, and all the legal documents are usually
drafted quickly, just to get it going, without a serious amount of thought
given to the problems that can occur.  Because, at the time, it's usually a
group of people that are already working really well together, getting
along and they just want to spend the minimum amount of $ to get it done.
That's what I imagine at least.  Unlike, say, what lots of companies do,
putting up a ton of capital in to make sure every i is dotted and t is
crossed and every path of the corporate/social decision tree of chaos is
accounted for (like having codes of conduct and anti-discrimination rules
written up that noone ever actually reads but are just there to be used to
defend the business in-the-event-of-some-issue).  Because unfortunately in
the business world there are people out there, on a mission to explicitly
screw everyone over.  I do not see what cherry-picking on all this really
matters in AMSATs case.  Does it somehow?


I think it's an entirely scientific practice to share your experiences and
findings with others.  It's above my pay grade to determine whether that's
education out of Websters dictionary or the proper noun of Education out of
the wizard-of-smart dictionary or defined term in some legal document.


Joseph Armbruster

KJ4JIO



On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 1:18 AM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Robert Bankston says no. But IARU says yes! From
> https://www.iaru.org/on-the-air/satellites/
> "AMSAT: The Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation was first formed in the USA
> in 1969 as an educational organisation".
>
> Hmm. Is there anything to that?
>
> The bylaws submitted with the articles of incorporation of AMSAT say
> "exclusively for scientific purposes", but right after that, they say "B.
> Encouraging development of skills and the advancement of specialized
> knowledge in the art and practice of amateur radio communications and space
> science."
>
> That is very definitely an educational mission.
>
> What AMSAT is _not_ is an accredited institution of higher learning, or any
> other form of school that would require licensing, certification, or
> accreditation. But it is educational. Surprise :-)
>
> The rest of your message, Robert, is more denial than argument. I will
> address it if you can muster a cogent argument.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bruce
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 13:07:13 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 09:07:13 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
In-Reply-To: <C3556335-437A-4250-A1AB-DBBEFB424CCF@gmail.com>
References: <C3556335-437A-4250-A1AB-DBBEFB424CCF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c9VJVzQr9-MXrtd0O=NgzGUiuNoJLwpbDuH+nBdRQ1dPw@mail.gmail.com>

Jeff,


About 24 hours ago, you sent an email to a public bulletin board... . . . .
. . . .   Noone on the BOD, in their right mind, is going to respond to a
request like this on here.  And that's what I would call a 'good business
practice'.  Especially with the gray cloud hanging over AMSAT that has been
throwing lots of lightning bolts its direction lately.  Either way, it
looks like they have their form 990's posted to amsat.org, ref:

https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/AMSAT_2019_Form990.pdf


When it comes to a forensic audit of an organization, I don't think you
really comprehend the magnitude of that effort.  Let's consider a very
simple case.  Say some AMSAT engineer (using AMSAT funds), purchased a pack
of current limiters for $5.00 and sent them to someone at location A on one
side of the US.  They probably ordered a few extras, because sometimes
things go wrong.  Then, they did their work and the rest were sitting on
the bench.  Then, maybe someone else on the other side of the US needed
some.  So, the member that had them, decided to (on their own dime) ship
them to the other location (rather than having AMSAT foot the bill, because
it can take time), so they were sent off to complete whatever project.
Now, maybe there's a couple left at the new location, but not enough to
justify actually shipping them to anyone.  So right now, they are sitting
on someone's shelf, waiting for the next need to arise.  What you're asking
for is spending the time, energy and effort on determining when they were
purchased, who purchased them, who they were sent to, asking individuals to
sift through emails so they can maybe recall where something was sent,
etc... And, for how many years do you want to look back?  I run my own
business, have a lathe/mill/laser out in my garage with a bunch of tools
that are company property... and if you asked me to find one of my business
screwdrivers out there, I could... but it may take me a couple hours to
find the Exact one.... and that's in my own garage, 10 feet away from where
i'm sitting.  I would literally be screwed!


What's the end-game here, really?  Besides casting doubt in the
membership?  What do members need their minds put at ease about....
specifically?  And, be Specific.  If you wanted to forensically audit some
individual situation, that's one thing... but if you're going to push for a
forensic audit of finances and all physical assets, over the years, what
you're really doing is signing everyone up for a pile of wasted time and
money, because that's going to take forever and cost a pile!  Think about
all the individual components that have been ordered over time and all the
places they had to go.  Think of all the hardware or components with
defects that were chucked into wastebins due to defects... The ends should
justify the means.


Good luck,

Joseph Armbruster

KJ4JIO


On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 3:25 AM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> About 24 hours ago I asked if the legacy BoD members and Officer which are
> running against me during this election cycle would join me to call for a
> full forensic accounting of AMSAT?s finances.
>
> The call to ask them to step-up and help ease the minds of many members
> was not answered. Why? It could be a myriad of things but because they will
> not (so far) step forward and help promote financial transparency is very
> disturbing. If there is nothing astray, then there would be nothing to
> worry about other than the cost for a third-party to perform the audit.
>
> I will once again ask them if they are willing to move forward a motion to
> authorize a forensic audit of AMSAT?s finances. Along with this audit, a
> full inventory of all AMSAT assets should be performed. Can any BoD member
> tell us, the general membership, the last time an inventory was performed?
> I can?t find anything in any minutes that are published. It?s good business
> practice to perform inventories. The Treasurer, as a CPA, should be very
> familiar with inventory practices in business. AMSAT is a business, albeit
> non-profit. An inventory of physical assets would go a long way to helping
> to heal AMSAT by removing the cloud.
>
> Regardless of who wins this election, there will still be a cloud over
> AMSAT regarding the handling of members? monies until an independent source
> provides an authoritative summary of both AMSAT?s finances and physical
> assets.
>
> If elected, I would make the motion to have this occur in order to ease
> the minds of members and donors. This needs to happen regardless of who
> wins seats and I would ask all members to encourage the Board to make this
> happen.
>
> Jeff WE4B
> http://we4bravo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From wb3csy at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 13:23:41 2020
From: wb3csy at gmail.com (Rick Walter)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 09:23:41 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] new computer doesn't see Keyspan adapters
In-Reply-To: <95380976.1486341.1596971918772@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <95380976.1486341.1596971918772@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <54C69E97-F9D4-4FE4-88E9-F9E15E21A8F3@gmail.com>

Hi Perry. I was running Windows 7 on a laptop and used a USB to serial adapter without any problems. Upgraded to Win 10 and everything went flaky controlling my radio for the sats using SATPC32. Changed to a new adapter with a more modern chip set and all is well again. 

I am thinking even though you are running a Mac, Apple like Windows figures they are dumping the old chip sets in their OS. 
73,
Rick

Sent from Rick's iPhone 6S
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" - Arthur C. Clarke

"Klaatu Barada Nikto" - The Day the Earth Stood Still

"I have been, and always shall be, your friend" - Spock


> On Aug 9, 2020, at 7:20 AM, Perry Yantis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?I have purchased a new MacBook Pro computer running Mac OS 10.15.6 with USB-C portsIt is just like my old MacBook Pro computer with USB-A ports, running the same OS except while my older computer sees my Keyspan usb to serial adaptors and gives me radio and antenna control, my new computer doesn't see these adaptors for some reason.I have went to Keyspans web page and downloaded a newer driver but still not seeing these adaptors.Does anyone else have this problem or have a solution?I will try calling Keyspan tomorrow.
> Perry WB8OTH
> 
> py41 at att.net
> sent from my Apple Macbook Pro
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From ke9v at mac.com  Sun Aug  9 13:43:12 2020
From: ke9v at mac.com (Jeff Davis)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 09:43:12 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
In-Reply-To: <C3556335-437A-4250-A1AB-DBBEFB424CCF@gmail.com>
References: <C3556335-437A-4250-A1AB-DBBEFB424CCF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F76CF36-F5B2-43B1-A66F-6B2FC0F5A09E@mac.com>



> On Aug 9, 2020, at 3:23 AM, Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> The call to ask them to step-up and help ease the minds of many members was not answered. Why? It could be a myriad of things but because they will not (so far) step forward and help promote financial transparency is very disturbing. If there is nothing astray, then there would be nothing to worry about other than the cost for a third-party to perform the audit.

Yes. I see the ?plot? clearly now. A few grifters decided the best way to get ?rich" was to join a ham radio organization. They would lay low for 10-30 years so as not to arouse suspicion. They would volunteer their time and efforts for decades to provide an smokescreen so other members wouldn?t suspect that they would one day steal money and inventory from the coffers and then refuse to provide a detailed accounting when requested?


Jeff, KE9V


From robert.machale at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  9 13:51:53 2020
From: robert.machale at yahoo.com (Robert MacHale)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 13:51:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is AMSAT an educational organization?
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOuML_Cjcc6THceYKKdCmiKg6X_8jwYu=E=fBneH3mbiZg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1782349383.1932031.1596913622083.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1782349383.1932031.1596913622083@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1536964495.1941152.1596917879732@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAK2MWOuML_Cjcc6THceYKKdCmiKg6X_8jwYu=E=fBneH3mbiZg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53809664.2119502.1596981113543@mail.yahoo.com>

At a glance, AMSAT should have three legs:

1) Education Outreach
2) Industrial Technology
3) Member Services

Perhaps the Board should be stacked in this proportion with advocates from each of these three legs.

The phrase?"exclusively for scientific purposes" is hopefully intended to aim for noble purposes that exclude for-profit monetization of technology and patent trolling.

73

BTW, patience is a virtue. Personal attacks are not. Better to debate ideas - not personalities.

Robert MacHale
. KE6BLR FCC Licensed Radio Operator?
.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- THOMAS PAINE

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self. -- ERNEST HEMINGWAY






On Saturday, August 8, 2020, 10:18:47 PM PDT, Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 





Robert Bankston says no. But IARU says yes! From
https://www.iaru.org/on-the-air/satellites/
"AMSAT: The Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation was first formed in the USA
in 1969 as an educational organisation".

Hmm. Is there anything to that?

The bylaws submitted with the articles of incorporation of AMSAT say
"exclusively for scientific purposes", but right after that, they say "B.
Encouraging development of skills and the advancement of specialized
knowledge in the art and practice of amateur radio communications and space
science."

That is very definitely an educational mission.

What AMSAT is _not_ is an accredited institution of higher learning, or any
other form of school that would require licensing, certification, or
accreditation. But it is educational. Surprise :-)

The rest of your message, Robert, is more denial than argument. I will
address it if you can muster a cogent argument.

Thanks

Bruce

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From blkupspilot at mac.com  Sun Aug  9 14:19:09 2020
From: blkupspilot at mac.com (Sloan Davis)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 10:19:09 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is AMSAT an educational organization?
In-Reply-To: <53809664.2119502.1596981113543@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <53809664.2119502.1596981113543@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C430E788-44B7-4330-8712-266A8C934D6E@mac.com>

The most intelligent response I?ve seen yet. Well stated Robert!

Sloan 

> On Aug 9, 2020, at 9:53 AM, Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?At a glance, AMSAT should have three legs:
> 
> 1) Education Outreach
> 2) Industrial Technology
> 3) Member Services
> 
> Perhaps the Board should be stacked in this proportion with advocates from each of these three legs.
> 
> The phrase "exclusively for scientific purposes" is hopefully intended to aim for noble purposes that exclude for-profit monetization of technology and patent trolling.
> 
> 73
> 
> BTW, patience is a virtue. Personal attacks are not. Better to debate ideas - not personalities.
> 
> Robert MacHale
> . KE6BLR FCC Licensed Radio Operator 
> . http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> . http://www.spaceCommunicator.club 
> . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
> Silly Joke: What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!
> He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- THOMAS PAINE
> 
> There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self. -- ERNEST HEMINGWAY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Saturday, August 8, 2020, 10:18:47 PM PDT, Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Robert Bankston says no. But IARU says yes! From
> https://www.iaru.org/on-the-air/satellites/
> "AMSAT: The Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation was first formed in the USA
> in 1969 as an educational organisation".
> 
> Hmm. Is there anything to that?
> 
> The bylaws submitted with the articles of incorporation of AMSAT say
> "exclusively for scientific purposes", but right after that, they say "B.
> Encouraging development of skills and the advancement of specialized
> knowledge in the art and practice of amateur radio communications and space
> science."
> 
> That is very definitely an educational mission.
> 
> What AMSAT is _not_ is an accredited institution of higher learning, or any
> other form of school that would require licensing, certification, or
> accreditation. But it is educational. Surprise :-)
> 
> The rest of your message, Robert, is more denial than argument. I will
> address it if you can muster a cogent argument.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Bruce
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From almetco at comcast.net  Sun Aug  9 14:21:52 2020
From: almetco at comcast.net (Greg)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 10:21:52 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is AMSAT an educational organization?
In-Reply-To: <C430E788-44B7-4330-8712-266A8C934D6E@mac.com>
References: <53809664.2119502.1596981113543@mail.yahoo.com>
	<C430E788-44B7-4330-8712-266A8C934D6E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <FE08A191-3C96-492E-9043-56B688EE9931@comcast.net>

Actually a very good idea.

Greg
N3MVF

On Aug 9, 2020, at 10:19 AM, Sloan Davis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

The most intelligent response I?ve seen yet. Well stated Robert!

Sloan 

> On Aug 9, 2020, at 9:53 AM, Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?At a glance, AMSAT should have three legs:
> 
> 1) Education Outreach
> 2) Industrial Technology
> 3) Member Services
> 
> Perhaps the Board should be stacked in this proportion with advocates from each of these three legs.
> 
> The phrase "exclusively for scientific purposes" is hopefully intended to aim for noble purposes that exclude for-profit monetization of technology and patent trolling.
> 
> 73
> 
> BTW, patience is a virtue. Personal attacks are not. Better to debate ideas - not personalities.
> 
> Robert MacHale
> . KE6BLR FCC Licensed Radio Operator 
> . http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> . http://www.spaceCommunicator.club 
> . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
> Silly Joke: What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!
> He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- THOMAS PAINE
> 
> There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self. -- ERNEST HEMINGWAY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Saturday, August 8, 2020, 10:18:47 PM PDT, Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Robert Bankston says no. But IARU says yes! From
> https://www.iaru.org/on-the-air/satellites/
> "AMSAT: The Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation was first formed in the USA
> in 1969 as an educational organisation".
> 
> Hmm. Is there anything to that?
> 
> The bylaws submitted with the articles of incorporation of AMSAT say
> "exclusively for scientific purposes", but right after that, they say "B.
> Encouraging development of skills and the advancement of specialized
> knowledge in the art and practice of amateur radio communications and space
> science."
> 
> That is very definitely an educational mission.
> 
> What AMSAT is _not_ is an accredited institution of higher learning, or any
> other form of school that would require licensing, certification, or
> accreditation. But it is educational. Surprise :-)
> 
> The rest of your message, Robert, is more denial than argument. I will
> address it if you can muster a cogent argument.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Bruce
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From kb2ysi at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 14:50:40 2020
From: kb2ysi at gmail.com (Don KB2YSI)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 10:50:40 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] new computer doesn't see Keyspan adapters
In-Reply-To: <95380976.1486341.1596971918772@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <95380976.1486341.1596971918772.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<95380976.1486341.1596971918772@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAAJiE8N7QZ+MtDLArpH52wYSYGqenAzStvqk2AtOrTdWeRHeOQ@mail.gmail.com>

Make sure you grabbed the correct version, likely a beta for the newest
version of OSX.

Where did you get the USB-B to USB-C cable? It possibly could be a power
only cable.

In Terminal, do:  ls -l, and see if the device is there. I think it has
keyspan in the name but it has been a while since I have looked at one in
the Terminal. I can double check when I get to my work computer.

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020, 07:20 Perry Yantis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> I have purchased a new MacBook Pro computer running Mac OS 10.15.6 with
> USB-C portsIt is just like my old MacBook Pro computer with USB-A ports,
> running the same OS except while my older computer sees my Keyspan usb to
> serial adaptors and gives me radio and antenna control, my new computer
> doesn't see these adaptors for some reason.I have went to Keyspans web page
> and downloaded a newer driver but still not seeing these adaptors.Does
> anyone else have this problem or have a solution?I will try calling Keyspan
> tomorrow.
> Perry WB8OTH
>
> py41 at att.net
> sent from my Apple Macbook Pro
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From kb2mjeff at att.net  Sun Aug  9 14:52:39 2020
From: kb2mjeff at att.net (kb2mjeff at att.net)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 10:52:39 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] new computer doesn't see Keyspan adapters
In-Reply-To: <54C69E97-F9D4-4FE4-88E9-F9E15E21A8F3@gmail.com>
References: <95380976.1486341.1596971918772@mail.yahoo.com>
	<54C69E97-F9D4-4FE4-88E9-F9E15E21A8F3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <030601d66e5c$bb10b810$31322830$@att.net>

Or you could look online for the same down level drivers that work on your old machine, then install them in the new machine. I've done that with my windows  based system's on occasion, rather then update the USB hardware device...

73 Jeff kb2m

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Rick Walter via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2020 9:24
To: Perry Yantis <py41 at att.net>
Cc: Amsat bb <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] new computer doesn't see Keyspan adapters

Hi Perry. I was running Windows 7 on a laptop and used a USB to serial adapter without any problems. Upgraded to Win 10 and everything went flaky controlling my radio for the sats using SATPC32. Changed to a new adapter with a more modern chip set and all is well again. 

I am thinking even though you are running a Mac, Apple like Windows figures they are dumping the old chip sets in their OS. 
73,
Rick

Sent from Rick's iPhone 6S
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" - Arthur C. Clarke

"Klaatu Barada Nikto" - The Day the Earth Stood Still

"I have been, and always shall be, your friend" - Spock


> On Aug 9, 2020, at 7:20 AM, Perry Yantis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?I have purchased a new MacBook Pro computer running Mac OS 10.15.6 with USB-C portsIt is just like my old MacBook Pro computer with USB-A ports, running the same OS except while my older computer sees my Keyspan usb to serial adaptors and gives me radio and antenna control, my new computer doesn't see these adaptors for some reason.I have went to Keyspans web page and downloaded a newer driver but still not seeing these adaptors.Does anyone else have this problem or have a solution?I will try calling Keyspan tomorrow.
> Perry WB8OTH
> 
> py41 at att.net
> sent from my Apple Macbook Pro
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available 
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. 
> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From jeff30339 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 15:40:43 2020
From: jeff30339 at gmail.com (Jeff Johns)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 10:40:43 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
Message-ID: <762E03BE-8E09-4CA3-A278-2CA107FD5AE7@gmail.com>

?I didn?t say anyone stole anything. I haven?t heard anyone say that. The membership, however, has learned of inappropriate spending by a group of legacy BoDs. It would be in the best interest of AMSAT, no matter who is in office, to make the dark cloud of FUD to go away. The only way that will happen is to have an independent, third-party investigate finances and to perform an inventory. 

AMSAT is a business. A business is valued by its cash on hand, receivables and assets. A customer base can also be used as part of the valuation of a company. All of the information, combined, gives an indication of the stability of a company (organization). 

The membership deserves to have the FUD removed and there?s only one way this can occur. Nobody wants to invest in a business that has questionable finances. In this case members and donors will be less likely to invest in AMSAT as long as there are questions about the governance of AMSAT and how that governance handles the organization?s money. 

If I were on the board, I would want to cloud removed to show that I, as a Board member, was being a good steward of the members? money. 

So, I once again ask that a thorough examination of AMSAT?s finances and assets take place so that the organization can show members and investors (future members and donors) that the organization is sound and that money is appropriately spent. 

This seems like a no-brainer to me. I?m not sure why any reasonable person would take issue with the membership wanting to know, for sure, that the organization?s finances are sound. 

Jeff WE4B 
http://we4bravo.com

> On Aug 9, 2020, at 8:45 AM, Jeff Davis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?
> 
>>>>> On Aug 9, 2020, at 3:23 AM, Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> The call to ask them to step-up and help ease the minds of many members was not answered. Why? It could be a myriad of things but because they will not (so far) step forward and help promote financial transparency is very disturbing. If there is nothing astray, then there would be nothing to worry about other than the cost for a third-party to perform the audit.
> 
> Yes. I see the ?plot? clearly now. A few grifters decided the best way to get ?rich" was to join a ham radio organization. They would lay low for 10-30 years so as not to arouse suspicion. They would volunteer their time and efforts for decades to provide an smokescreen so other members wouldn?t suspect that they would one day steal money and inventory from the coffers and then refuse to provide a detailed accounting when requested?
> 
> 
> Jeff, KE9V
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From clintbrad4d at earthlink.net  Sun Aug  9 15:07:28 2020
From: clintbrad4d at earthlink.net (Clint Bradford)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 08:07:28 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA - WE4B
In-Reply-To: <mailman.11218.1596984800.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.11218.1596984800.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <18F8D5A3-EFCE-4B54-9FA5-E27908017CCF@earthlink.net>

The future indicates ?clear skies? for AMSAT-NA, as far as fulfilling their mission statement is concerned.

Say, WE4B - You have been asked several times to report which AMSAT-NA activities in which you have been involved.

What HAVE you volunteered to do for AMSAT-NA in, say, the past ten years?

Don?t you think actual volunteer hours devoted to an organization is a valuable part of one?s resume - as they 
runoff office for that organization?

Clint Bradford K6LCS


WE4B - 
> Regardless of who wins this election, there will still be a cloud over AMSAT regarding the handling of members? monies until an independent source provides an authoritative summary of both AMSAT?s finances and physical assets. 


From blackstock at outlook.com  Sun Aug  9 16:39:57 2020
From: blackstock at outlook.com (Michael B)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 16:39:57 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another mailing list?
Message-ID: <BYAPR01MB4678C8B8BCC3BF05C1093F85DB470@BYAPR01MB4678.prod.exchangelabs.com>

I thought I had subscribed to the digest version of this list, but apparently I subscribed to the drama version. 

Is there a mailing list that focuses on the technical aspects of amateur satellite use?  For example, I would like to know of  SSTV events and other operational aspects.
I don't care to know about infighting of AMSAT members and officers. 

Does anyone have some suggestions?
Thank you in advance.

Michael 

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 18:04:27 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 11:04:27 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
In-Reply-To: <762E03BE-8E09-4CA3-A278-2CA107FD5AE7@gmail.com>
References: <762E03BE-8E09-4CA3-A278-2CA107FD5AE7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2VRSw5HcwQpnRx+wjF-XFS+cw6-zbR2ePmLkOSYHPbhjQ@mail.gmail.com>

Clayton Coleman called for an inventory, and called for specific and
reasonable expense reductions, over a year ago on the BoD mailing list.

We lost a valuable IP donation from AHA.

A Rincon AstroSDR went missing for over a year. It  resurfaced after I
started asking questions about it.

We need a better grip on what we own, where it is, and who has it. This can
be done.

It's not a bad idea at all to resolve to take inventory as soon as possible
and do a better job.

Don't get offended at an honest critique paired with proposed actions.
Those things lead to better solutions for the organization.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 8:43 AM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> I didn?t say anyone stole anything. I haven?t heard anyone say that. The
> membership, however, has learned of inappropriate spending by a group of
> legacy BoDs. It would be in the best interest of AMSAT, no matter who is in
> office, to make the dark cloud of FUD to go away. The only way that will
> happen is to have an independent, third-party investigate finances and to
> perform an inventory.
>
> AMSAT is a business. A business is valued by its cash on hand, receivables
> and assets. A customer base can also be used as part of the valuation of a
> company. All of the information, combined, gives an indication of the
> stability of a company (organization).
>
> The membership deserves to have the FUD removed and there?s only one way
> this can occur. Nobody wants to invest in a business that has questionable
> finances. In this case members and donors will be less likely to invest in
> AMSAT as long as there are questions about the governance of AMSAT and how
> that governance handles the organization?s money.
>
> If I were on the board, I would want to cloud removed to show that I, as a
> Board member, was being a good steward of the members? money.
>
> So, I once again ask that a thorough examination of AMSAT?s finances and
> assets take place so that the organization can show members and investors
> (future members and donors) that the organization is sound and that money
> is appropriately spent.
>
> This seems like a no-brainer to me. I?m not sure why any reasonable person
> would take issue with the membership wanting to know, for sure, that the
> organization?s finances are sound.
>
> Jeff WE4B
> http://we4bravo.com
>
> > On Aug 9, 2020, at 8:45 AM, Jeff Davis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > ?
> >
> >>>>> On Aug 9, 2020, at 3:23 AM, Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >> The call to ask them to step-up and help ease the minds of many members
> was not answered. Why? It could be a myriad of things but because they will
> not (so far) step forward and help promote financial transparency is very
> disturbing. If there is nothing astray, then there would be nothing to
> worry about other than the cost for a third-party to perform the audit.
> >
> > Yes. I see the ?plot? clearly now. A few grifters decided the best way
> to get ?rich" was to join a ham radio organization. They would lay low for
> 10-30 years so as not to arouse suspicion. They would volunteer their time
> and efforts for decades to provide an smokescreen so other members wouldn?t
> suspect that they would one day steal money and inventory from the coffers
> and then refuse to provide a detailed accounting when requested?
> >
> >
> > Jeff, KE9V
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From henry.d.turner at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 18:15:00 2020
From: henry.d.turner at gmail.com (HenryTurner)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 13:15:00 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another mailing list?
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR01MB4678C8B8BCC3BF05C1093F85DB470@BYAPR01MB4678.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <BYAPR01MB4678C8B8BCC3BF05C1093F85DB470@BYAPR01MB4678.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <a902f525-b6fb-f956-6550-819697c13d49@gmail.com>

I don't think there is a stop on any of the topics you mention. Nothing 
is stopping anyone from asking or posting about SSTV events, antennas, 
rotors, sat beacons or favorite cheese dip recipes.

Henry K5YDD



On 8/9/2020 11:39 AM, Michael B via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> I thought I had subscribed to the digest version of this list, but apparently I subscribed to the drama version.
>
> Is there a mailing list that focuses on the technical aspects of amateur satellite use?  For example, I would like to know of  SSTV events and other operational aspects.
> I don't care to know about infighting of AMSAT members and officers.
>
> Does anyone have some suggestions?
> Thank you in advance.
>
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From stephennipper at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 19:04:41 2020
From: stephennipper at gmail.com (H. Stephen Nipper)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 13:04:41 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2VRSw5HcwQpnRx+wjF-XFS+cw6-zbR2ePmLkOSYHPbhjQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <762E03BE-8E09-4CA3-A278-2CA107FD5AE7@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2VRSw5HcwQpnRx+wjF-XFS+cw6-zbR2ePmLkOSYHPbhjQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPf7+3qVbHrX0dbZfU9XocH5d9gO2L-T8dS3RnS9oftyb6Uaig@mail.gmail.com>

All of the things that the FIVE amigos keep addressing, should be done at
the board level.  Doing an inventory should be done at the board level,
doing an audit should be done at a board level.  The general membership
doesn't need to know this.  The general membership needs to know that a
policy exists to monitor and control property of the organization.  If a
policy doesn't exist in the by-laws add one.

Don't whine.  The time to campaign is over.

Stephen Nipper
N7DJX

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 12:11 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Clayton Coleman called for an inventory, and called for specific and
> reasonable expense reductions, over a year ago on the BoD mailing list.
>
> We lost a valuable IP donation from AHA.
>
> A Rincon AstroSDR went missing for over a year. It  resurfaced after I
> started asking questions about it.
>
> We need a better grip on what we own, where it is, and who has it. This can
> be done.
>
> It's not a bad idea at all to resolve to take inventory as soon as possible
> and do a better job.
>
> Don't get offended at an honest critique paired with proposed actions.
> Those things lead to better solutions for the organization.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 8:43 AM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org
> >
> wrote:
>
> > I didn?t say anyone stole anything. I haven?t heard anyone say that. The
> > membership, however, has learned of inappropriate spending by a group of
> > legacy BoDs. It would be in the best interest of AMSAT, no matter who is
> in
> > office, to make the dark cloud of FUD to go away. The only way that will
> > happen is to have an independent, third-party investigate finances and to
> > perform an inventory.
> >
> > AMSAT is a business. A business is valued by its cash on hand,
> receivables
> > and assets. A customer base can also be used as part of the valuation of
> a
> > company. All of the information, combined, gives an indication of the
> > stability of a company (organization).
> >
> > The membership deserves to have the FUD removed and there?s only one way
> > this can occur. Nobody wants to invest in a business that has
> questionable
> > finances. In this case members and donors will be less likely to invest
> in
> > AMSAT as long as there are questions about the governance of AMSAT and
> how
> > that governance handles the organization?s money.
> >
> > If I were on the board, I would want to cloud removed to show that I, as
> a
> > Board member, was being a good steward of the members? money.
> >
> > So, I once again ask that a thorough examination of AMSAT?s finances and
> > assets take place so that the organization can show members and investors
> > (future members and donors) that the organization is sound and that money
> > is appropriately spent.
> >
> > This seems like a no-brainer to me. I?m not sure why any reasonable
> person
> > would take issue with the membership wanting to know, for sure, that the
> > organization?s finances are sound.
> >
> > Jeff WE4B
> > http://we4bravo.com
> >
> > > On Aug 9, 2020, at 8:45 AM, Jeff Davis via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > ?
> > >
> > >>>>> On Aug 9, 2020, at 3:23 AM, Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> > >> The call to ask them to step-up and help ease the minds of many
> members
> > was not answered. Why? It could be a myriad of things but because they
> will
> > not (so far) step forward and help promote financial transparency is very
> > disturbing. If there is nothing astray, then there would be nothing to
> > worry about other than the cost for a third-party to perform the audit.
> > >
> > > Yes. I see the ?plot? clearly now. A few grifters decided the best way
> > to get ?rich" was to join a ham radio organization. They would lay low
> for
> > 10-30 years so as not to arouse suspicion. They would volunteer their
> time
> > and efforts for decades to provide an smokescreen so other members
> wouldn?t
> > suspect that they would one day steal money and inventory from the
> coffers
> > and then refuse to provide a detailed accounting when requested?
> > >
> > >
> > > Jeff, KE9V
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions expressed
> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
Stephen Nipper
Boise, Idaho
N7DJX

From jim at k6ccc.org  Sun Aug  9 19:05:47 2020
From: jim at k6ccc.org (Jim Walls)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 12:05:47 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another mailing list?
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR01MB4678C8B8BCC3BF05C1093F85DB470@BYAPR01MB4678.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <BYAPR01MB4678C8B8BCC3BF05C1093F85DB470@BYAPR01MB4678.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <f890da22-d680-4c60-f4ae-b6bcbb83d9c1@k6ccc.org>

On 08/09/2020 09:39, Michael B via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> I thought I had subscribed to the digest version of this list, but apparently I subscribed to the drama version.
>
> Is there a mailing list that focuses on the technical aspects of amateur satellite use?  For example, I would like to know of  SSTV events and other operational aspects.
> I don't care to know about infighting of AMSAT members and officers.

Wait till after the election.? It hopefully will get back to normal.

-- 
73
-------------------------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
jim at k6ccc.org
Ofc:  818-548-4804
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395


From jeff30339 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 19:29:49 2020
From: jeff30339 at gmail.com (Jeff Johns)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 14:29:49 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
In-Reply-To: <CAPf7+3qVbHrX0dbZfU9XocH5d9gO2L-T8dS3RnS9oftyb6Uaig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPf7+3qVbHrX0dbZfU9XocH5d9gO2L-T8dS3RnS9oftyb6Uaig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <06072E64-8197-472D-B03F-A3F2BDB941C7@gmail.com>

Actually the general membership DOES need to know this. It removes FUD from the minds of members and donors. I totally agree about the bylaws but until the Board actually has meetings, there?s no way to add/change/delete bylaws. The current BoD isn?t dysfunctional, it just doesn?t function because legacy BoD members refuse to meet. No meetings = non-functioning. No whining here. Just facts. 

Jeff WE4B 
http://we4bravo.com

> On Aug 9, 2020, at 2:04 PM, H. Stephen Nipper <stephennipper at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> All of the things that the FIVE amigos keep addressing, should be done at the board level.  Doing an inventory should be done at the board level, doing an audit should be done at a board level.  The general membership doesn't need to know this.  The general membership needs to know that a policy exists to monitor and control property of the organization.  If a policy doesn't exist in the by-laws add one.
> 
> Don't whine.  The time to campaign is over.
> 
> Stephen Nipper
> N7DJX
> 
>> On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 12:11 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> Clayton Coleman called for an inventory, and called for specific and
>> reasonable expense reductions, over a year ago on the BoD mailing list.
>> 
>> We lost a valuable IP donation from AHA.
>> 
>> A Rincon AstroSDR went missing for over a year. It  resurfaced after I
>> started asking questions about it.
>> 
>> We need a better grip on what we own, where it is, and who has it. This can
>> be done.
>> 
>> It's not a bad idea at all to resolve to take inventory as soon as possible
>> and do a better job.
>> 
>> Don't get offended at an honest critique paired with proposed actions.
>> Those things lead to better solutions for the organization.
>> 
>> -Michelle W5NYV
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 8:43 AM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> > I didn?t say anyone stole anything. I haven?t heard anyone say that. The
>> > membership, however, has learned of inappropriate spending by a group of
>> > legacy BoDs. It would be in the best interest of AMSAT, no matter who is in
>> > office, to make the dark cloud of FUD to go away. The only way that will
>> > happen is to have an independent, third-party investigate finances and to
>> > perform an inventory.
>> >
>> > AMSAT is a business. A business is valued by its cash on hand, receivables
>> > and assets. A customer base can also be used as part of the valuation of a
>> > company. All of the information, combined, gives an indication of the
>> > stability of a company (organization).
>> >
>> > The membership deserves to have the FUD removed and there?s only one way
>> > this can occur. Nobody wants to invest in a business that has questionable
>> > finances. In this case members and donors will be less likely to invest in
>> > AMSAT as long as there are questions about the governance of AMSAT and how
>> > that governance handles the organization?s money.
>> >
>> > If I were on the board, I would want to cloud removed to show that I, as a
>> > Board member, was being a good steward of the members? money.
>> >
>> > So, I once again ask that a thorough examination of AMSAT?s finances and
>> > assets take place so that the organization can show members and investors
>> > (future members and donors) that the organization is sound and that money
>> > is appropriately spent.
>> >
>> > This seems like a no-brainer to me. I?m not sure why any reasonable person
>> > would take issue with the membership wanting to know, for sure, that the
>> > organization?s finances are sound.
>> >
>> > Jeff WE4B
>> > http://we4bravo.com
>> >
>> > > On Aug 9, 2020, at 8:45 AM, Jeff Davis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > ?
>> > >
>> > >>>>> On Aug 9, 2020, at 3:23 AM, Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <
>> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> > >> The call to ask them to step-up and help ease the minds of many members
>> > was not answered. Why? It could be a myriad of things but because they will
>> > not (so far) step forward and help promote financial transparency is very
>> > disturbing. If there is nothing astray, then there would be nothing to
>> > worry about other than the cost for a third-party to perform the audit.
>> > >
>> > > Yes. I see the ?plot? clearly now. A few grifters decided the best way
>> > to get ?rich" was to join a ham radio organization. They would lay low for
>> > 10-30 years so as not to arouse suspicion. They would volunteer their time
>> > and efforts for decades to provide an smokescreen so other members wouldn?t
>> > suspect that they would one day steal money and inventory from the coffers
>> > and then refuse to provide a detailed accounting when requested?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Jeff, KE9V
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> > Opinions expressed
>> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> > AMSAT-NA.
>> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> > program!
>> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> > expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> > AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 
> 
> -- 
> Stephen Nipper
> Boise, Idaho
> N7DJX
> 
> 

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Sun Aug  9 21:57:21 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2020 16:57:21 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another mailing list?
In-Reply-To: <a902f525-b6fb-f956-6550-819697c13d49@gmail.com>
References: <BYAPR01MB4678C8B8BCC3BF05C1093F85DB470@BYAPR01MB4678.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<a902f525-b6fb-f956-6550-819697c13d49@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B6CD9BE-FAC0-43D6-B850-DBEDCB647B0B@pobox.com>

On August 9, 2020 1:15:00 PM CDT, HenryTurner via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>I don't think there is a stop on any of the topics you mention. Nothing
>
>is stopping anyone from asking or posting about SSTV events, antennas, 
>rotors, sat beacons or favorite cheese dip recipes.
>
Indeed! Let's see if we can out-topic the mudslingers in here with real technical topics.

Here's what I'm working on:

I just ordered a replacement microphone for my FT-847, as it did not come with one. 

The 3D printed passive Lindenblad article is written and needs a good going over before submission to the journal. On-air experience is good!

I've ordered some 433MHz SAW filter (RFMi) from Mouser to install at the output of my homebrew LNA. Hopefully this will reduce overload of the FT-847. A FCDP+, with it's internal SAW, works very well with that antenna and LNA, so I think I'm on the right track.

That have y'all been working on?

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From maccody at att.net  Sun Aug  9 22:49:58 2020
From: maccody at att.net (Mac A. Cody)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 17:49:58 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another mailing list?
In-Reply-To: <3B6CD9BE-FAC0-43D6-B850-DBEDCB647B0B@pobox.com>
References: <BYAPR01MB4678C8B8BCC3BF05C1093F85DB470@BYAPR01MB4678.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<a902f525-b6fb-f956-6550-819697c13d49@gmail.com>
	<3B6CD9BE-FAC0-43D6-B850-DBEDCB647B0B@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <d17f47ae-cbcf-fd75-e2d1-fb6834706352@att.net>

Zach,

I'm finally finishing up the SatNOGS Rotator V2 project that was started...
Now how many years ago did we start that little project? ;)

I built the SatNOGS Rotator Controller V1.2 a couple of months ago.? Now
I got the Arduino Pro Micro programmed and getting the steppers and
AZ/EL home sensors wired up.? Instead of using a WR703N, I'll interface
the Arduino to a Raspberry Pi 3 that will run some tracking software.

73,

Mac Cody / AE5PH

On 8/9/20 4:57 PM, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> On August 9, 2020 1:15:00 PM CDT, HenryTurner via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> I don't think there is a stop on any of the topics you mention. Nothing
>>
>> is stopping anyone from asking or posting about SSTV events, antennas,
>> rotors, sat beacons or favorite cheese dip recipes.
>>
> Indeed! Let's see if we can out-topic the mudslingers in here with real technical topics.
>
> Here's what I'm working on:
>
> I just ordered a replacement microphone for my FT-847, as it did not come with one.
>
> The 3D printed passive Lindenblad article is written and needs a good going over before submission to the journal. On-air experience is good!
>
> I've ordered some 433MHz SAW filter (RFMi) from Mouser to install at the output of my homebrew LNA. Hopefully this will reduce overload of the FT-847. A FCDP+, with it's internal SAW, works very well with that antenna and LNA, so I think I'm on the right track.
>
> That have y'all been working on?
>
> --- Zach
> N0ZGO
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>



From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 22:53:26 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 15:53:26 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
In-Reply-To: <CAPf7+3qVbHrX0dbZfU9XocH5d9gO2L-T8dS3RnS9oftyb6Uaig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <762E03BE-8E09-4CA3-A278-2CA107FD5AE7@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2VRSw5HcwQpnRx+wjF-XFS+cw6-zbR2ePmLkOSYHPbhjQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPf7+3qVbHrX0dbZfU9XocH5d9gO2L-T8dS3RnS9oftyb6Uaig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2UYRS2g+srEthMqT3tP61_9Lipm15s-_91CgKCZmP1tyQ@mail.gmail.com>

If AMSAT had regular board meetings, preferably monthly, then things like
this would be taken care of quickly and efficiently.

We would all be reading detailed minutes about all the "boring ordinary"
stuff that should be going on - in the Journal.

However, AMSAT has a majority of the board (5 out of 7) that flatly refuses
to meet. Bylaws require three board members to call a meeting. Or, the
President could call meetings. It's part of his powers to do so.

I think things would go a lot better with Directors that are cooperative,
collaborative, and civil.

Secretly hiring a law firm with member money to attack new Directors and
figure out time-wasting ways to keep new Directors from getting their
graspy little hands on the records is not cooperative, not collaborative,
and not civil. Plastering a badly-written and defamatory "explanation" on
the organization's website (instead of meeting as a board to resolve
the unauthorized expenditures as repeatedly requested) is definitely not
civil.

This is a very bad and very public hill to die on. There was not unanimous
consent to that writing. It was not the result of any official action.

All of this public discussion is directly related to individual officers
publishing that letter here, on this mailing list, instead of meeting in
private to discuss the unauthorized expenses.

Do we want the public discussion to stop? Then that letter needs to be
retracted. Meetings need to start.

Very simple easy things.

I am optimistic that things can and will improve.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 12:04 PM H. Stephen Nipper <stephennipper at gmail.com>
wrote:

> All of the things that the FIVE amigos keep addressing, should be done at
> the board level.  Doing an inventory should be done at the board level,
> doing an audit should be done at a board level.  The general membership
> doesn't need to know this.  The general membership needs to know that a
> policy exists to monitor and control property of the organization.  If a
> policy doesn't exist in the by-laws add one.
>
> Don't whine.  The time to campaign is over.
>
> Stephen Nipper
> N7DJX
>
> On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 12:11 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> Clayton Coleman called for an inventory, and called for specific and
>> reasonable expense reductions, over a year ago on the BoD mailing list.
>>
>> We lost a valuable IP donation from AHA.
>>
>> A Rincon AstroSDR went missing for over a year. It  resurfaced after I
>> started asking questions about it.
>>
>> We need a better grip on what we own, where it is, and who has it. This
>> can
>> be done.
>>
>> It's not a bad idea at all to resolve to take inventory as soon as
>> possible
>> and do a better job.
>>
>> Don't get offended at an honest critique paired with proposed actions.
>> Those things lead to better solutions for the organization.
>>
>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 8:43 AM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I didn?t say anyone stole anything. I haven?t heard anyone say that. The
>> > membership, however, has learned of inappropriate spending by a group of
>> > legacy BoDs. It would be in the best interest of AMSAT, no matter who
>> is in
>> > office, to make the dark cloud of FUD to go away. The only way that will
>> > happen is to have an independent, third-party investigate finances and
>> to
>> > perform an inventory.
>> >
>> > AMSAT is a business. A business is valued by its cash on hand,
>> receivables
>> > and assets. A customer base can also be used as part of the valuation
>> of a
>> > company. All of the information, combined, gives an indication of the
>> > stability of a company (organization).
>> >
>> > The membership deserves to have the FUD removed and there?s only one way
>> > this can occur. Nobody wants to invest in a business that has
>> questionable
>> > finances. In this case members and donors will be less likely to invest
>> in
>> > AMSAT as long as there are questions about the governance of AMSAT and
>> how
>> > that governance handles the organization?s money.
>> >
>> > If I were on the board, I would want to cloud removed to show that I,
>> as a
>> > Board member, was being a good steward of the members? money.
>> >
>> > So, I once again ask that a thorough examination of AMSAT?s finances and
>> > assets take place so that the organization can show members and
>> investors
>> > (future members and donors) that the organization is sound and that
>> money
>> > is appropriately spent.
>> >
>> > This seems like a no-brainer to me. I?m not sure why any reasonable
>> person
>> > would take issue with the membership wanting to know, for sure, that the
>> > organization?s finances are sound.
>> >
>> > Jeff WE4B
>> > http://we4bravo.com
>> >
>> > > On Aug 9, 2020, at 8:45 AM, Jeff Davis via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > ?
>> > >
>> > >>>>> On Aug 9, 2020, at 3:23 AM, Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <
>> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> > >> The call to ask them to step-up and help ease the minds of many
>> members
>> > was not answered. Why? It could be a myriad of things but because they
>> will
>> > not (so far) step forward and help promote financial transparency is
>> very
>> > disturbing. If there is nothing astray, then there would be nothing to
>> > worry about other than the cost for a third-party to perform the audit.
>> > >
>> > > Yes. I see the ?plot? clearly now. A few grifters decided the best way
>> > to get ?rich" was to join a ham radio organization. They would lay low
>> for
>> > 10-30 years so as not to arouse suspicion. They would volunteer their
>> time
>> > and efforts for decades to provide an smokescreen so other members
>> wouldn?t
>> > suspect that they would one day steal money and inventory from the
>> coffers
>> > and then refuse to provide a detailed accounting when requested?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Jeff, KE9V
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> > Opinions expressed
>> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of
>> > AMSAT-NA.
>> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> > program!
>> > > Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions
>> > expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> > AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>
>
> --
> Stephen Nipper
> Boise, Idaho
> N7DJX
>
>
>

From jeff30339 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 00:07:08 2020
From: jeff30339 at gmail.com (Jeff Johns)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 19:07:08 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2UYRS2g+srEthMqT3tP61_9Lipm15s-_91CgKCZmP1tyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2UYRS2g+srEthMqT3tP61_9Lipm15s-_91CgKCZmP1tyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8990F8DD-EEBC-4975-A5BC-2FE547EFB4FF@gmail.com>


> If AMSAT had regular board meetings, preferably monthly, then things like this would be taken care of quickly and efficiently. 
> 
> We would all be reading detailed minutes about all the "boring ordinary" stuff that should be going on - in the Journal. 

Exactly! A forensic audit may not be simple but I would hope that someone within AMSAT could produce a list of physical assets which could be checked to make sure they are still in AMSAT?s control and inventory. Does a list of assets exist?

It doesn?t matter who wins this election. The dark cloud over AMSAT will remain until the members and donors are satisfied that their is no malfeasance that has, or is, taking place within AMSAT. All the members and donors can see the smoke and there?s no smoke unless there?s a fire. 

It saddens me that no legacy BoD member or Officer running against me will step-up and join me in requesting that a third-party audit AMSAT. Like I said, there wouldn?t be any smoke if there wasn?t a fire. This leads many members to wonder what else is being hidden. There may well be nothing being hidden but enough has been uncovered that a jury of average people would not be convinced. There?s a simple way to make the bad thoughts that members and donors have. Allow a full audit and inventory of AMSAT?s finances and inventory. 

Jeff WE4B
http://we4bravo.com


From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 01:36:55 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 21:36:55 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
In-Reply-To: <8990F8DD-EEBC-4975-A5BC-2FE547EFB4FF@gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2UYRS2g+srEthMqT3tP61_9Lipm15s-_91CgKCZmP1tyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8990F8DD-EEBC-4975-A5BC-2FE547EFB4FF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c_D=13J4YhEb4N2XSdx=Tx7nOKWj44=4Vgp_8vJT4iQOA@mail.gmail.com>

Jeff,


i'll just say this and end here, because it's getting really old and this
feels like tail chasing at this point with no end.  In addition, it's
becoming unproductive and irritating for everyone on the list and needs to
stop, so i'm going to do my part.  The bottom line is, it DOES matter who
wins this next AMSAT election, if you still want AMSAT to take their stack
forward, get people to work together and preserve the organizations
relationships.


I don't think anyone wants a continuation of the last two years of --bb
back and forth-ing, he-said-she-said, and legal demands and nonsense...  i
got involved with all this on the -bb last month, out of sheer frustration
with what I was hearing team-awesome spout off about AMSAT.  Because, that
is not the AMSAT I know.  I still maintain relationships with many members,
have regular communications about all sorts of random things, etc... with
guys all over the US.  and one observation I have made is that not one...
Not a single one of the names that I know, that ever built anything for
AMSAT, have spoken up about any of this stuff on the-bb or expressed the
least bit of interest in any of it.  They still send technical emails, send
stuff out on the development lists, etc... shoot me text messages on and
off... but, literally Nothing about any of this.  That speaks volumes to me
personally.


All this talk about smoke and fires, clouds and demands, is to me, just a
lot of smoke and mirrors.


KJ4JIO, clear.

Joseph Armbruster

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 8:14 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

>
> > If AMSAT had regular board meetings, preferably monthly, then things
> like this would be taken care of quickly and efficiently.
> >
> > We would all be reading detailed minutes about all the "boring ordinary"
> stuff that should be going on - in the Journal.
>
> Exactly! A forensic audit may not be simple but I would hope that someone
> within AMSAT could produce a list of physical assets which could be checked
> to make sure they are still in AMSAT?s control and inventory. Does a list
> of assets exist?
>
> It doesn?t matter who wins this election. The dark cloud over AMSAT will
> remain until the members and donors are satisfied that their is no
> malfeasance that has, or is, taking place within AMSAT. All the members and
> donors can see the smoke and there?s no smoke unless there?s a fire.
>
> It saddens me that no legacy BoD member or Officer running against me will
> step-up and join me in requesting that a third-party audit AMSAT. Like I
> said, there wouldn?t be any smoke if there wasn?t a fire. This leads many
> members to wonder what else is being hidden. There may well be nothing
> being hidden but enough has been uncovered that a jury of average people
> would not be convinced. There?s a simple way to make the bad thoughts that
> members and donors have. Allow a full audit and inventory of AMSAT?s
> finances and inventory.
>
> Jeff WE4B
> http://we4bravo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From k8bl at ameritech.net  Mon Aug 10 02:48:49 2020
From: k8bl at ameritech.net (Bob Liddy (K8BL))
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 02:48:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for ...
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c_D=13J4YhEb4N2XSdx=Tx7nOKWj44=4Vgp_8vJT4iQOA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2UYRS2g+srEthMqT3tP61_9Lipm15s-_91CgKCZmP1tyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8990F8DD-EEBC-4975-A5BC-2FE547EFB4FF@gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_D=13J4YhEb4N2XSdx=Tx7nOKWj44=4Vgp_8vJT4iQOA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <822498618.2354806.1597027729639@mail.yahoo.com>

 Joe,
It doesn't irritate me one bit. Like many other Members, I've hadthis BB going to Spam for several weeks. I check it out once a weekjust to see if the BB still exists. It's rare that I actually read anything.I no longer watch TV News because of the Political chaos and non-stopsniping and this BB has fallen into the same abyss. Not worth my timeor blood pressure.? ?
73,? ? ?Bob? K8BL

    On Sunday, August 9, 2020, 09:35:40 PM EDT, Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 Jeff,


i'll just say this and end here, because it's getting really old and this
feels like tail chasing at this point with no end.? In addition, it's
becoming unproductive and irritating for everyone on the list and needs to
stop, so i'm going to do my part.? The bottom line is, it DOES matter who
wins this next AMSAT election, if you still want AMSAT to take their stack
forward, get people to work together and preserve the organizations
relationships.


I don't think anyone wants a continuation of the last two years of --bb
back and forth-ing, he-said-she-said, and legal demands and nonsense...? i
got involved with all this on the -bb last month, out of sheer frustration
with what I was hearing team-awesome spout off about AMSAT.? Because, that
is not the AMSAT I know.? I still maintain relationships with many members,
have regular communications about all sorts of random things, etc... with
guys all over the US.? and one observation I have made is that not one...
Not a single one of the names that I know, that ever built anything for
AMSAT, have spoken up about any of this stuff on the-bb or expressed the
least bit of interest in any of it.? They still send technical emails, send
stuff out on the development lists, etc... shoot me text messages on and
off... but, literally Nothing about any of this.? That speaks volumes to me
personally.


All this talk about smoke and fires, clouds and demands, is to me, just a
lot of smoke and mirrors.


KJ4JIO, clear.

Joseph Armbruster

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 8:14 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

>
> > If AMSAT had regular board meetings, preferably monthly, then things
> like this would be taken care of quickly and efficiently.
> >
> > We would all be reading detailed minutes about all the "boring ordinary"
> stuff that should be going on - in the Journal.
>
> Exactly! A forensic audit may not be simple but I would hope that someone
> within AMSAT could produce a list of physical assets which could be checked
> to make sure they are still in AMSAT?s control and inventory. Does a list
> of assets exist?
>
> It doesn?t matter who wins this election. The dark cloud over AMSAT will
> remain until the members and donors are satisfied that their is no
> malfeasance that has, or is, taking place within AMSAT. All the members and
> donors can see the smoke and there?s no smoke unless there?s a fire.
>
> It saddens me that no legacy BoD member or Officer running against me will
> step-up and join me in requesting that a third-party audit AMSAT. Like I
> said, there wouldn?t be any smoke if there wasn?t a fire. This leads many
> members to wonder what else is being hidden. There may well be nothing
> being hidden but enough has been uncovered that a jury of average people
> would not be convinced. There?s a simple way to make the bad thoughts that
> members and donors have. Allow a full audit and inventory of AMSAT?s
> finances and inventory.
>
> Jeff WE4B
> http://we4bravo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From sjdevience at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 04:12:54 2020
From: sjdevience at gmail.com (Stephen DeVience)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 23:12:54 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another mailing list?
Message-ID: <CAMPfQQAh7SpbQzchzNb18z6RDVkYrfNqoT8c-PcZSMag9N8JiA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to figure out what satellite antennas I should build next, so I
ran some simulations of signal strengths for various ground station and
satellite antenna combinations, given a tumbling satellite like the foxes.
It turns out a dipole or whip antenna on the satellite is not so good,
because some fraction of the time is spent in its null (when the long axis
of the antenna is pointed toward ground). It's more reliable to have an
omnidirectional, circularly polarized antenna on the bird, which is why
things like this exist:

https://gomspace.com/shop/subsystems/communication-systems/nanocom-ant430.aspx

It's similar to the design on Lilacsat-2. It would also make your
Lindenblad very happy.

I'll have to write something up for the Journal.

-Stephen, N8URE

From w7lrd at comcast.net  Mon Aug 10 04:38:45 2020
From: w7lrd at comcast.net (73 Bob W7LRD)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 21:38:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
In-Reply-To: <8990F8DD-EEBC-4975-A5BC-2FE547EFB4FF@gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2UYRS2g+srEthMqT3tP61_9Lipm15s-_91CgKCZmP1tyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8990F8DD-EEBC-4975-A5BC-2FE547EFB4FF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <776833703.63800.1597034325708@connect.xfinity.com>

Remember those little boxy things that are whipping around the world that we enjoy and have fun, learn, develop expertise, and just chat with like people.  Please knock off the BS!
73 Bob W7LRD
 
> On 08/09/2020 5:07 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
>  
> > If AMSAT had regular board meetings, preferably monthly, then things like this would be taken care of quickly and efficiently. 
> > 
> > We would all be reading detailed minutes about all the "boring ordinary" stuff that should be going on - in the Journal. 
> 
> Exactly! A forensic audit may not be simple but I would hope that someone within AMSAT could produce a list of physical assets which could be checked to make sure they are still in AMSAT?s control and inventory. Does a list of assets exist?
> 
> It doesn?t matter who wins this election. The dark cloud over AMSAT will remain until the members and donors are satisfied that their is no malfeasance that has, or is, taking place within AMSAT. All the members and donors can see the smoke and there?s no smoke unless there?s a fire. 
> 
> It saddens me that no legacy BoD member or Officer running against me will step-up and join me in requesting that a third-party audit AMSAT. Like I said, there wouldn?t be any smoke if there wasn?t a fire. This leads many members to wonder what else is being hidden. There may well be nothing being hidden but enough has been uncovered that a jury of average people would not be convinced. There?s a simple way to make the bad thoughts that members and donors have. Allow a full audit and inventory of AMSAT?s finances and inventory. 
> 
> Jeff WE4B
> http://we4bravo.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From lgwn5400 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 10 04:44:24 2020
From: lgwn5400 at yahoo.com (Rosa & Robert Fitzpatrick)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 04:44:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] QUESTION
References: <705461297.1689901.1597034664751.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <705461297.1689901.1597034664751@mail.yahoo.com>

WHAT GOING ON WITH AO-92 .?I HEAR IT IS IN SAFE MODE.IS THER A PROBLEM WITH AO-92 ??????BOB/KB5SQG?

From glasbrenner at mindspring.com  Mon Aug 10 10:03:28 2020
From: glasbrenner at mindspring.com (Andrew Glasbrenner)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 06:03:28 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <705461297.1689901.1597034664751@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <705461297.1689901.1597034664751.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<705461297.1689901.1597034664751@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001101d66efd$7ed46bc0$7c7d4340$@mindspring.com>

AO-92 is currently dropping into safe mode due to low voltage near the end of eclipse on some orbits. Right now that's the end of the ascending, evening passes, and it's also dependent on the load the previous orbit. As soon as the satellite hits illumination again, it automatically comes out of safe mode. It's unfortunate that this is happening over North America right now, but it's the control software preventing the batteries from over discharge, which is a good thing.

Remember you can always check the latest telemetry at https://www.amsat.org/tlm/leaderboard.php?id=0&db=FOXDB

73, Drew KO4MA
AMSAT VP Operations

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Rosa & Robert Fitzpatrick via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 12:44 AM
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] QUESTION

WHAT GOING ON WITH AO-92 . I HEAR IT IS IN SAFE MODE.IS THER A PROBLEM WITH AO-92 ??????BOB/KB5SQG _______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From hans.bx2abt at msa.hinet.net  Mon Aug 10 14:16:34 2020
From: hans.bx2abt at msa.hinet.net (Hans BX2ABT)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 22:16:34 +0800
Subject: [amsat-bb] QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <001101d66efd$7ed46bc0$7c7d4340$@mindspring.com>
References: <705461297.1689901.1597034664751.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<705461297.1689901.1597034664751@mail.yahoo.com>
	<001101d66efd$7ed46bc0$7c7d4340$@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <6a84ff2f-7f95-7c68-d463-d5cd1c10629f@msa.hinet.net>

Yes, just had it drop into safe-mode towards the end of our nightly 
pass, roughly 2 hours after it entered eclipse. --Hans

On 8/10/20 6:03 PM, Andrew Glasbrenner via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> AO-92 is currently dropping into safe mode due to low voltage near the end of eclipse on some orbits. Right now that's the end of the ascending, evening passes, and it's also dependent on the load the previous orbit. As soon as the satellite hits illumination again, it automatically comes out of safe mode. It's unfortunate that this is happening over North America right now, but it's the control software preventing the batteries from over discharge, which is a good thing.
>
> Remember you can always check the latest telemetry at https://www.amsat.org/tlm/leaderboard.php?id=0&db=FOXDB
>
> 73, Drew KO4MA
> AMSAT VP Operations
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Rosa & Robert Fitzpatrick via AMSAT-BB
> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 12:44 AM
> To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb] QUESTION
>
> WHAT GOING ON WITH AO-92 . I HEAR IT IS IN SAFE MODE.IS THER A PROBLEM WITH AO-92 ??????BOB/KB5SQG _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>

From marklhammond at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 15:18:51 2020
From: marklhammond at gmail.com (Mark L. Hammond)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 11:18:51 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <6a84ff2f-7f95-7c68-d463-d5cd1c10629f@msa.hinet.net>
References: <705461297.1689901.1597034664751.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<705461297.1689901.1597034664751@mail.yahoo.com>
	<001101d66efd$7ed46bc0$7c7d4340$@mindspring.com>
	<6a84ff2f-7f95-7c68-d463-d5cd1c10629f@msa.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <CAPRXzypQh-_n8kxF-2su3h8XSOY3aLMppTRt++L+qyP_9E+pqw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Hans and the list--

AO-92 is currently experiencing around 35 mins of ellipse and then 60
minutes of sunlight per orbit.   I read the "..roughly 2 hours after it
entered eclipse" and that caught my attention and as they say, "made me
look." ;-)

Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
AMSAT Director and Command Station



On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 10:18 AM Hans BX2ABT via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Yes, just had it drop into safe-mode towards the end of our nightly
> pass, roughly 2 hours after it entered eclipse. --Hans
>
> On 8/10/20 6:03 PM, Andrew Glasbrenner via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > AO-92 is currently dropping into safe mode due to low voltage near the
> end of eclipse on some orbits. Right now that's the end of the ascending,
> evening passes, and it's also dependent on the load the previous orbit. As
> soon as the satellite hits illumination again, it automatically comes out
> of safe mode. It's unfortunate that this is happening over North America
> right now, but it's the control software preventing the batteries from over
> discharge, which is a good thing.
> >
> > Remember you can always check the latest telemetry at
> https://www.amsat.org/tlm/leaderboard.php?id=0&db=FOXDB
> >
> > 73, Drew KO4MA
> > AMSAT VP Operations
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Rosa & Robert
> Fitzpatrick via AMSAT-BB
> > Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 12:44 AM
> > To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> > Subject: [amsat-bb] QUESTION
> >
> > WHAT GOING ON WITH AO-92 . I HEAR IT IS IN SAFE MODE.IS THER A PROBLEM
> WITH AO-92 ??????BOB/KB5SQG _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From marinesvcs at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 15:52:34 2020
From: marinesvcs at gmail.com (Paul F. Merrill)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 07:52:34 -0800
Subject: [amsat-bb] =?utf-8?q?Let=E2=80=99s_talk_satellites?=
Message-ID: <CAM42373=J6POE97KhMuieq3iq9o1rOF_PsDdS5zvO1ohNSAa9A@mail.gmail.com>

1) We need a separate mailing list for campaign issues in campaign season.
The back and forth is valuable because I?ve seen one candidate who I?m very
glad to not have voted for, more than one I can?t wait to vote against, and
clues as to the personal integrity of others.  Useful information, but it
doesn?t need to be diluting operational satellite conversations, mentoring,
and other useful information.

2) I?d throw a vote in for a different communication platform than this
legacy bbs format - apparently even very smart people who can get little
flying repeaters into orbit can?t understand how to trim their messages -
the digests and nearly unreadable when someone posts a three word comment
over 400 lines of nested emails.

3) For the pedants among us, yes...I know that I can view the threads in
the browser, but when I rejoined AMSAT earlier in the year, I was very
enthusiastic at how much useful information I gleaned from the daily
digests - lately...not so much.

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 16:04:28 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 09:04:28 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Hack-a-Sat finals this weekend - AMSAT volunteers
	represented!
In-Reply-To: <757520660.1076281.1596744704664@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CACvjz2XKXdvXQDpvB_CC-2wbrvm-=rOmK05biKOtB000Bwmxag@mail.gmail.com>
	<757520660.1076281.1596744704664@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2WJbJDGhsofpOBR6SN+efR=j=zxvsVwHmzf5H7i3kWryQ@mail.gmail.com>

What a weekend!

There were a lot of presentations on satellite technology and security this
year at DEF CON.

Here are two.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5XLmlm59As
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku0Q_Wey4K0

The Hack-a-Sat competition finals were fundamentally different from the
qualifications. It was the equivalent of qualifying for a Formula 1 race,
and then being taken to a different track and given funny cars to drive
through an obstacle course on race day.

GNU Radio featured heavily in the qualifications, and those of us with
signals, coding theory, and satellite tracking experience were very busy.
The traditional info security team members had somewhat less to do.

For the finals, this was flipped. The challenges were linear, they were
heavily info-sec, everything depended on knowing how to use COSMOS, how to
write applications for core flight, how to get them into a VM and
manipulate memory in sneaky ways.

Most importantly for our team, there was a punishing aspect to the scoring.
As soon as any team solved any challenge, the points available started
deteriorating. Within 2 hours, that challenge was worth 0 points to all
other teams. We were too slow to capture many points. We ended up either
6th or 8th depending on how one interprets the rules (see below!).

This type of scoring, where teams that solve a challenge first get the max
number of points, and everyone else gets less, is common in these types of
competitions. However, it's very rare for the points value to go to zero so
quickly.

That means there's no score incentive to do a challenge that has decayed to
zero, but because the contest was linear, you still had to work on things
that had no score value.

I haven't run the numbers from a game theory perspective, but given the
number of hours the competition was live each day, it may be impossible to
overcome a leading team's early lead, given that you had to solve the
challenges in order.

This was somewhat of a disincentive and got a lot of discussion in our
after-contest meetup.

Another very interesting part was a challenge to design a set of mission
directives to point a satellite at the moon. This was announced as a binary
gate. If you solved it, your team would be considered for prizes. If you
did not solve it, then you were not eligible for prizes. Wow! Yikes!

Well, we solved it. Six teams solved it, two did not. However, the
announced rule did not appear to be enforced. Everyone kept their score.
The highest scoring team failed to do this "side quest".

Our team is not a permanent team. This is in contrast to almost all the
other teams we competed against. We formed for the event. We are now going
to stick together and try more competitions.

So, what's the significance of this team being in the finals?

We had 40 members total. Not everyone competed actively in the finals. From
looking at the Discord server, about 25 people actively competed in the
finals.
Half the team have their amateur radio license. More than half of the
finals participants were hams. A lot of satellite service enthusiasts!
Finals members were split between the US and Europe.
About 30% of the finals team were women.
Age range was 30s-50s.
We finished 4th out of 2000 in the semifinals.

What would have helped our score in the finals?

We knew enough about core flight services (cFS, open source, NASA) to be
helpful. But, not enough of us knew as much about COSMOS (software from
Ball Aerospace) to move quickly enough to be in the points. Paying closer
attention to the hints about COSMOS would have helped a lot.

We made things too hard by assuming things were more difficult than they
actually were. This is not uncommon in CTF competitions! It's easy to get
tunnel vision and not notice that the answer is already there.

We did extremely well in the on-orbit challenge (the pass/fail gate). We
nearly won this part. Another team just barely got ahead of us in terms of
accuracy. The prize for this part was for your mission plan to be put on a
real satellite, and an image of the moon taken using your code. We all
agreed that that was the best prize in the competition.

What did we learn?

Modern satellites require information security skills, networking skills,
memory management skills, and protocol and message passing interface
skills. Computing and digital technologies are a necessary area of
expertise.

Someone that understands the permissions and packet filters just a little
better than the satellite operator, can take out a satellite. It can be
very tricky to find out what is going on, or get it back under control.
Someone that modifies code just enough to waste more propellant than was
allocated, and can cover it up in the telemetry, can do more than just
annoy - they can render a satellite inoperable.

These are the things that the Air Force and other communities seem to be
worried about.

This was a great event and it looks like it will happen again. The top
scoring team was told they had a free "ticket" to enter the CTF finals next
year.

Amateur satellite service enthusiasts made a very strong showing and proved
to be among the best in the world at hacking a real satellite. The target
for the competition was made available to us beforehand as a flat sat, and
I'm going to try to arrange to have it brought to the next in-person
convention that we have in the community, so that people can see it!

I'm organizing the GNU Radio Conference "capture the flag" competition.
This will be held in September, and will have satellite content. The
experience with Hack-a-Sat has been a big inspiration. When GRCon in-person
was postponed, the auto racing themed CTF was postponed too. At first, I
couldn't see how one would put on a CTF for radio signals and radio
hardware for a virtual event. But, Hack-a-Sat qualifications and finals
were both necessarily virtual, and it worked pretty well.

Wouldn't it be great to have a technical satellite competition like this at
Symposium?

More soon!
-Michelle W5NYV





On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 1:11 PM Robert MacHale <robert.machale at yahoo.com>
wrote:

> VERY COOL - Michelle - glad to hear you are engaged with the hack-a-sat!
>
> Robert MacHale
> . KE6BLR FCC Licensed Radio Operator
> . http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> . http://www.spaceCommunicator.club
> . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space
> Exploration
> Silly Joke: What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi
> Cliff!
> He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- THOMAS PAINE
>
> There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility
> lies in being superior to your former self. -- ERNEST HEMINGWAY
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, August 6, 2020, 10:25:17 AM PDT, Michelle Thompson via
> AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Greetings all,
>
> There's a major event happening this weekend with a very large amateur
> radio satellite component.
>
> It's DEFCON. This year it's virtual and free to attend!
>
> https://www.defcon.org/
>
> DEFCON draws 30,000 people interested in improving technology and
> themselves.
>
> In the past, amateur radio and AMSAT have been well represented, presented,
> and promoted at WiFi Village, Ham Radio Village, and Hardware Hacking
> Village. It's been a real pleasure to present amateur satellite work at
> DEFCON because the audience is receptive, educated, interested, and
> supportive. Every time we have a booth or talk, the feedback is
> overwhelmingly positive.
>
> The largest US amateur radio licensing session on record happened at DEFCON
> a couple of years ago. Amateur radio is alive and well.
>
> This year, a number of AMSAT members have participated in another aspect of
> DEFCON: The competitions!
>
> There are a lot of competitions at DEFCON. They range from silly to
> extremely difficult multi-day technical ordeals.
>
> This year, the Air Force sponsored a high-end competition called
> Hack-a-Sat.
>
> For the qualifying event, amateur radio satellite service enthusiasts were
> recruited. Our practical knowledge and interdisciplinary can-do spirit was
> something that I thought would provide a unique advantage in a competition
> ordinarily dominated by networking and computing information security
> professionals.
>
> This strategy worked. An interdisciplinary team finished 20th out of over
> 1500. You can find reports about it in the -BB archive.
>
> Unfortunately, while 20th place is a remarkable achievement, that meant
> that team missed out on the finals, as only the top 10 moved on.
>
> However, I have some news! A number of us hams were recruited by teams that
> finished in the finals. There will be several AMSAT engineering volunteers
> participating in the final event this weekend. I'm on ADDVulcan along with
> several others.
>
> We are very excited to represent amateur radio in an event put on by the
> Air Force to explore current and pressing security issues with satellite
> technology.
>
> For the finals, the teams each received a flatsat. The challenges in the
> competition are both "virtual", meaning code only, and also "real", meaning
> having to do with the flatsat hardware.
>
> If you want to follow along, there will be coverage and content at
> https://www.hackasat.com/
>
> Some inside baseball: The team that won the semifinals is a famous
> engineering competition team called PPP. They have withdrawn from the
> finals because they also have a team in the "main" computing CTF at DEFCON,
> and could not field both teams at once.
>
> ADDVulcan finished 4th, and has strengthened their position through
> recruiting and practice.
>
> So, I think it's fair to say that amateur radio satellite service people
> have a chance to contribute to a possible win at an international elite
> competition. Everyone here should be very proud of what our license and
> hobby enables.
>
> Some of the things we've had to learn with respect to tools are Core Flight
> System (NASA open source) and COSMOS, from Ball Aerospace. We've also been
> given an opportunity to see what the Air Force believes are the 1) current
> capabilities of the technical community and 2) what the threat models might
> be.
>
> I look forward to sharing what we learn and how we do with all of you.
>
> These are the sorts of things I think AMSAT should be supporting and
> sponsoring. It's well within our capabilities as a community to host
> competitions like this one, where the goal of the challenges is to produce
> quality open source work that solves particular problems. If you are
> interested in doing something like this, then I'm here to help make it
> happen. Get in touch and let's see what we can come up with!
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From aj9n at aol.com  Mon Aug 10 16:21:32 2020
From: aj9n at aol.com (aj9n at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 16:21:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-10 16:00
	UTC
References: <2003080065.1889644.1597076492406.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2003080065.1889644.1597076492406@mail.yahoo.com>


Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-10 16:00 UTC

?

Quick list of scheduled contacts and events:

?

Kopernik Observatory & Science Center, Vestal, NY, direct via K2ZRO (***) 

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be NA1SS

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR (***)

Contact is go for: Fri 2020-08-21 18:23:40 UTC 29 deg (***)

?

SpaceX-Demo2 back on earth (***)

Congrats guys on a job well done! (***) 

Bob Behnken KE5GGX

Doug Hurley

?

########################################################################################################################################

A multi-point telebridge contact means that each student will be on the telebridge from their own home.

*************************************************

?

ARISS is very aware of the impact that COVID-19 is having on schools and the public in general.? As such, we may have last minute cancellations or postponements of school contacts.? As always, I will try to provide everyone with near-real-time updates.? 

?

The following schools have now been postponed or cancelled due to COVID-19:? 

?

Postponed:

No new schools

?

Cancelled:

No new schools

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

?

Watch for future COVID-19 related announcements here also.

?

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

?

Note, all times are approximate. ?It is recommended that you do your own 

orbital prediction?or start listening about 10 minutes before the listed 

time. 

All dates and times listed follow International Standard ISO 8601 date and 

time format YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS

?

The complete schedule page has been updated as of?2020-08-10 16:00 UTC. (***)

Here you will find a listing of all scheduled?school contacts, and 

questions, other ISS related websites, IRLP and Echolink websites, and 

instructions for any contact that may be streamed live.

?

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf 

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.txt 

?

?

The successful school list has been updated as of 2020-07-31 02:30 UTC.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/Successful_ARISS_schools.rtf 

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

?

Message to US Educators

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States) 

?

The Proposal Window of February 1, 2020 to March 31, 2020 has now closed.

?

For future proposal information and more details such as expectations, proposal guidelines and proposal form, and dates and times of Information Webinars, go to www.ariss.org.

?

Please direct any questions to?ariss.us.education at gmail.com.

?

About ARISS:

?

Amateur Radio on the International Space Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radio societies and the space agencies that support the International Space Station (ISS).? In the United States, sponsors are the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio Relay League (ARRL), the ISS National Lab and National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEAM) topics by organizing scheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS and students in classrooms or public forms. Before and during these radio contacts, students, educators, parents, and communities learn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. For more information, see www.ariss.org.

?

********************************************************************************

ARISS Contact Applications (Europe, Africa and the Middle East)

?

Schools and Youth organizations in Europe, Africa and the Middle East interested in setting up an ARISS radio contact with an astronaut on board the International Space Station are invited to submit an application from September to October and from February to April.

Please refer to details and the application form at www.ariss-eu.org/school-contacts.? Applications should be addressed by email to:? school.selection.manager at ariss-eu.org

?

ARISS Contact Applications (Canada, Central and South America, Asia and Australia and Russia)

?

Organizations outside the United States can apply for an ARISS contact by filling out an application.? Please direct questions to the appropriate regional representative listed below. If your country is not specifically listed, send your questions to the nearest ARISS Region listed. If you are unsure which address to use, please send your question to the ARISS-Canada representative; they will forward your question to the appropriate coordinator.

?

For the application, go to:? https://www.ariss.org/ariss-application.html.

ARISS-Canada and the Americas, except USA: Steve McFarlane, VE3TBD email to: ve3tbd at gmail.com

ARISS-Japan, Asia, Pacific and Australia: Satoshi Yasuda, 7M3TJZ email to: ariss at iaru-r3.org, Japan Amateur Radio League (JARL) https://www.jarl.org/

ARISS-Russia: Soyuz Radioljubitelei Rossii (SRR) https://srr.ru/

?

?

******************************************************************************

ARISS is always glad to receive listener reports for the above contacts.? ARISS thanks everyone in advance for their assistance.? Feel free to send your reports to aj9n at amsat.org or aj9n at aol.com.

?

Listen for the ISS on the downlink of 145.8? MHz.

?

*******************************************************************************

?

All ARISS contacts are made via the Kenwood radio unless otherwise noted.

?

*******************************************************************************


Several of you have sent me emails asking about the RAC ARISS website and 
not being able to get in. ?That has now been changed to https://www.ariss.org/

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

****************************************************************************

Looking for something new to do?? How about receiving DATV from the ISS?? Please note that the HamTV system has been brought back to earth for troubleshooting.? Please monitor ARISS-EU or ARISS-ON for the very latest news on the troubleshooting efforts.? 

?

If interested, then please go to the ARISS-EU website for complete details.? Look for the buttons indicating Ham Video.???????????? 

?

http://www.ariss-eu.org/

?

If you need some assistance, ARISS mentor Kerry N6IZW, might be able to provide some insight.? Contact Kerry at kbanke at sbcglobal.net

?

?

The HamTV webpage:? https://www.amsat-on.be/hamtv-summary/

?

?

****************************************************************************
ARISS congratulations the following mentors who have now mentored over 100 schools: 

?

Francesco IK?WGF with 140

Satoshi 7M3TJZ with 138 

Sergey RV3DR with 134 

Gaston ON4WF with 123

?

****************************************************************************

The webpages listed below were all reviewed for accuracy. Out of date 

webpages were removed, and new ones have been added.? If there are additional 

ARISS websites I need to know about, please let me know.

?

?

?

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school events is 1393.

Each school counts as 1 event.?????????????????????????????????? 

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school contacts is 1326.

Each contact may have multiple schools sharing the same time slot.

Total number of ARISS supported terrestrial contacts is 48. 

?

A complete year by year breakdown of the contacts may be found in the 

file.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf

?

Please feel free to contact me if more detailed statistics are needed.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



The following US states and entities have never had an ARISS contact:
South Dakota, Wyoming, American?Samoa, Guam, Northern Marianas Islands, and the Virgin Islands.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

?

QSL information may be found at:

https://www.ariss.org/qsl-cards.html

?

ISS callsigns: DP?ISS, IR?ISS, NA1SS, OR4ISS, RS?ISS

?

****************************************************************************



Frequency chart for packet, voice, and crossband repeater modes showing 

Doppler correction as of 2005-07-29 04:00 UTC

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/ISS_frequencies_and_Doppler_correction.rtf



Check out the Zoho reports of the ARISS contacts

?

https://reports.zoho.com/ZDBDataSheetView.cc?DBID=412218000000020415

****************************************************************************

?

Exp. 62 now on orbit 

Chris Cassidy KF5KDR

Anatoli Ivanishin

Ivan Vagner

?

SpaceX-Demo2 back on earth (***)

Congrats guys on a job well done! (***) 

Bob Behnken KE5GGX

Doug Hurley

?

****************************************************************************

73,

Charlie?Sufana AJ9N
One of the ARISS operation team mentors

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?



From cq.kg6o at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 17:50:59 2020
From: cq.kg6o at gmail.com (Chris Hoffman)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 10:50:59 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
In-Reply-To: <776833703.63800.1597034325708@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <CACvjz2UYRS2g+srEthMqT3tP61_9Lipm15s-_91CgKCZmP1tyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8990F8DD-EEBC-4975-A5BC-2FE547EFB4FF@gmail.com>
	<776833703.63800.1597034325708@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <CANPmdb0Y6ayv1cuJnGMMVggcJ1ni_HXr7bbHvaCQFuQHiEXhsg@mail.gmail.com>

Each thread has a topic, and members are not incapable of intentionally
ignoring threads by looking at the subject line.


Remember those little boxy things that are whipping around the world that
> we enjoy and have fun, learn, develop expertise, and just chat with like
> people.  Please knock off the BS!
> 73 Bob W7LRD
>
>

Bob and Joseph, as a dues-pyaing AMSAT member, I'm sorry to
inconvenience you with my own '...BS,' however, please understand that --to
me-- these "...the small things are complicated' or "...watch the birdie"
misdirections, and the "...everyone is tired of it, so please knock it
off!" comments can serve to undermine your standing as Trusted Leadership
in the eyes of Interested Members by making it look as if the board and
leadership really do have something to hide.

If this is not the correct venue, then what is?

Put another way, why even respond to these questions in the Email Threads?

Also, Is wishing people would just stop griping and just enjoy the view
really a successful strategy?


Seeing these comments as you both speak from a position of leadership makes
me worry that AMSAT may be lost in the woods, and not on an
intentional path. At the moment, I can see NO better forum than an email
list to express these concerns, and to suggest that this should not happen
is... galling. Fundamentally, I see your comment as deprecating and
dismissive of Members in Good Standing who are using the only venue
apparently available with any significant level of accountability to air
their concerns.

There have been some important and simple questions asked: Why hasn't the
board of an organization to which members pay dues address some valid
questions and show that they are acting in good faith, let alone convene in
order to do so? What was really behind the irregular use of funds paid to a
law firm, and why was it handled that way? Your membership is smart enough
to gain their Ham Radio license, and information is shared more broadly and
easily than ever before, so it should be no surprise that a "...you just
would not understand, so trust us" response --or silence-- may not have the
desired effect.

Do you understand that it is some of your comments, combined with
[in-]actions --and not the legitimate questions being raised--  which
undermine the confidence we have in the board and leadership? At this
point, given the proven and highly irregular actions of the board  '... we
are making progress,' from the board may not be a sufficient answer to keep
the Rabble at a low din.


How about we turn this conversation to 'real' subject matter, then?
AMSAT is still the preeminent forum within the US to provide new Amateur
Radio Satellites. From my chair, however, given how seemingly few AMSAT
OSCAR satellites are work-able in-orbit, I'd say we are not as successful
in that effort as we have been in the past, and I would like to know why.
Can leadership answer these questions for me:
- Has a committee been convened to understand what happened with Husky Sat?
- What is the full project plan, set of milestones, and real status of
GOLF-TEE?
- Where does AMSAT stand WRT launch strategies, and can we expect to see
more operational FM and Transponder birds any time soon?
- How is AMSAT now involved in helping schools get more satellites into the
sky, and how is that effort changing?
- What resources does AMSAT require to make these things happen?
- We are geeks and enthusiasts and funders, and we want to know: how we can
help?

Respectfully,

Chris Hoffman
N6QR
Amsat member # *54687432*

(Please email me directly if you would like my cell phone number)


> > On 08/09/2020 5:07 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > If AMSAT had regular board meetings, preferably monthly, then things
> like this would be taken care of quickly and efficiently.
> > >
> > > We would all be reading detailed minutes about all the "boring
> ordinary" stuff that should be going on - in the Journal.
> >
> > Exactly! A forensic audit may not be simple but I would hope that
> someone within AMSAT could produce a list of physical assets which could be
> checked to make sure they are still in AMSAT?s control and inventory. Does
> a list of assets exist?
> >
> > It doesn?t matter who wins this election. The dark cloud over AMSAT will
> remain until the members and donors are satisfied that their is no
> malfeasance that has, or is, taking place within AMSAT. All the members and
> donors can see the smoke and there?s no smoke unless there?s a fire.
> >
> > It saddens me that no legacy BoD member or Officer running against me
> will step-up and join me in requesting that a third-party audit AMSAT. Like
> I said, there wouldn?t be any smoke if there wasn?t a fire. This leads many
> members to wonder what else is being hidden. There may well be nothing
> being hidden but enough has been uncovered that a jury of average people
> would not be convinced. There?s a simple way to make the bad thoughts that
> members and donors have. Allow a full audit and inventory of AMSAT?s
> finances and inventory.
> >
> > Jeff WE4B
> > http://we4bravo.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From aj9n at aol.com  Mon Aug 10 18:03:46 2020
From: aj9n at aol.com (aj9n at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 18:03:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-10 18:00
	UTC
References: <1381742050.1944552.1597082626158.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1381742050.1944552.1597082626158@mail.yahoo.com>


Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-10 18:00 UTC

?

Quick list of scheduled contacts and events:

?

Kopernik Observatory & Science Center, Vestal, NY, direct via K2ZRO 

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be NA1SS

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR 

Contact is go for: Fri 2020-08-21 18:23:40 UTC 29 deg 

?

SpaceX-Demo2 back on earth 

Congrats guys on a job well done! 

Bob Behnken KE5GGX

Doug Hurley

?

?

########################################################################################################################################

A multi-point telebridge contact means that each student will be on the telebridge from their own home.

*************************************************

?

ARISS is very aware of the impact that COVID-19 is having on schools and the public in general.? As such, we may have last minute cancellations or postponements of school contacts.? As always, I will try to provide everyone with near-real-time updates.? 

?

The following schools have now been postponed or cancelled due to COVID-19:? 

?

Postponed:

No new schools

?

Cancelled:

No new schools

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

?

Watch for future COVID-19 related announcements here also.

?

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

?

Note, all times are approximate. ?It is recommended that you do your own 

orbital prediction?or start listening about 10 minutes before the listed 

time. 

All dates and times listed follow International Standard ISO 8601 date and 

time format YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS

?

The complete schedule page has been updated as of?2020-08-10 18:00 UTC. (***)

Here you will find a listing of all scheduled?school contacts, and 

questions, other ISS related websites, IRLP and Echolink websites, and 

instructions for any contact that may be streamed live.

?

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf 

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.txt 

?

?

The successful school list has been updated as of 2020-07-31 02:30 UTC.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/Successful_ARISS_schools.rtf 

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

?

Message to US Educators

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States) 

?

The Proposal Window of February 1, 2020 to March 31, 2020 has now closed.

?

For future proposal information and more details such as expectations, proposal guidelines and proposal form, and dates and times of Information Webinars, go to www.ariss.org.

?

Please direct any questions to?ariss.us.education at gmail.com.

?

About ARISS:

?

Amateur Radio on the International Space Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radio societies and the space agencies that support the International Space Station (ISS).? In the United States, sponsors are the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio Relay League (ARRL), the ISS National Lab and National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEAM) topics by organizing scheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS and students in classrooms or public forms. Before and during these radio contacts, students, educators, parents, and communities learn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. For more information, see www.ariss.org.

?

********************************************************************************

ARISS Contact Applications (Europe, Africa and the Middle East)

?

Schools and Youth organizations in Europe, Africa and the Middle East interested in setting up an ARISS radio contact with an astronaut on board the International Space Station are invited to submit an application from September to October and from February to April.

Please refer to details and the application form at www.ariss-eu.org/school-contacts.? Applications should be addressed by email to:? school.selection.manager at ariss-eu.org

?

ARISS Contact Applications (Canada, Central and South America, Asia and Australia and Russia)

?

Organizations outside the United States can apply for an ARISS contact by filling out an application.? Please direct questions to the appropriate regional representative listed below. If your country is not specifically listed, send your questions to the nearest ARISS Region listed. If you are unsure which address to use, please send your question to the ARISS-Canada representative; they will forward your question to the appropriate coordinator.

?

For the application, go to:? https://www.ariss.org/ariss-application.html.

ARISS-Canada and the Americas, except USA: Steve McFarlane, VE3TBD email to: ve3tbd at gmail.com

ARISS-Japan, Asia, Pacific and Australia: Satoshi Yasuda, 7M3TJZ email to: ariss at iaru-r3.org, Japan Amateur Radio League (JARL) https://www.jarl.org/

ARISS-Russia: Soyuz Radioljubitelei Rossii (SRR) https://srr.ru/

?

?

******************************************************************************

ARISS is always glad to receive listener reports for the above contacts.? ARISS thanks everyone in advance for their assistance.? Feel free to send your reports to aj9n at amsat.org or aj9n at aol.com.

?

Listen for the ISS on the downlink of 145.8? MHz.

?

*******************************************************************************

?

All ARISS contacts are made via the Kenwood radio unless otherwise noted.

?

*******************************************************************************


Several of you have sent me emails asking about the RAC ARISS website and 
not being able to get in. ?That has now been changed to https://www.ariss.org/

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

****************************************************************************

Looking for something new to do?? How about receiving DATV from the ISS?? Please note that the HamTV system has been brought back to earth for troubleshooting.? Please monitor ARISS-EU or ARISS-ON for the very latest news on the troubleshooting efforts.? 

?

If interested, then please go to the ARISS-EU website for complete details.? Look for the buttons indicating Ham Video.???????????? 

?

http://www.ariss-eu.org/

?

If you need some assistance, ARISS mentor Kerry N6IZW, might be able to provide some insight.? Contact Kerry at kbanke at sbcglobal.net

?

?

The HamTV webpage:? https://www.amsat-on.be/hamtv-summary/

?

?

****************************************************************************
ARISS congratulations the following mentors who have now mentored over 100 schools: 

?

Francesco IK?WGF with 140

Satoshi 7M3TJZ with 138 

Sergey RV3DR with 134 

Gaston ON4WF with 123

?

****************************************************************************

The webpages listed below were all reviewed for accuracy. Out of date 

webpages were removed, and new ones have been added.? If there are additional 

ARISS websites I need to know about, please let me know.

?

?

?

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school events is 1393.

Each school counts as 1 event.?????????????????????????????????? 

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school contacts is 1326.

Each contact may have multiple schools sharing the same time slot.

Total number of ARISS supported terrestrial contacts is 48. 

?

A complete year by year breakdown of the contacts may be found in the 

file.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf

?

Please feel free to contact me if more detailed statistics are needed.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



The following US states and entities have never had an ARISS contact:
South Dakota, Wyoming, American?Samoa, Guam, Northern Marianas Islands, and the Virgin Islands.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

?

QSL information may be found at:

https://www.ariss.org/qsl-cards.html

?

ISS callsigns: DP?ISS, IR?ISS, NA1SS, OR4ISS, RS?ISS

?

****************************************************************************



Frequency chart for packet, voice, and crossband repeater modes showing 

Doppler correction as of 2005-07-29 04:00 UTC

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/ISS_frequencies_and_Doppler_correction.rtf



Check out the Zoho reports of the ARISS contacts

?

https://reports.zoho.com/ZDBDataSheetView.cc?DBID=412218000000020415

****************************************************************************

?

Exp. 62 now on orbit 

Chris Cassidy KF5KDR

Anatoli Ivanishin

Ivan Vagner

?

SpaceX-Demo2 back on earth (***)

Congrats guys on a job well done! (***) 

Bob Behnken KE5GGX

Doug Hurley

?

****************************************************************************

73,

Charlie?Sufana AJ9N
One of the ARISS operation team mentors

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?



From badencapecod at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 18:23:12 2020
From: badencapecod at gmail.com (Wes Baden)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 14:23:12 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] ME to HI for WAS--Possible at present?
Message-ID: <CAPvDab3yQQ9hPycR3YB_aPi_Y1o76N9ar0X+eUdBAAAN=ExSgw@mail.gmail.com>

Any ideas about the following? My QTH is in Maine, FN54, 120 feet ASL.  I'm
closing in on WAS, but the problem is going to be Hawaii.  From my rough
calculations, I need a SAT that has a 4500+ mile footprint, meaning an
apogee of 1200+ miles, and even then any operating window will be pretty
short.  Current MEO satellites do not seem to offer a window quite that
big, or am I missing something?  In theory, I guess, I could go to Mt.
Washington, NH (fortunately only 90 miles away) and a KH6 could go up on a
volcanic peak there, to try to make use of over-the-horizon signal
bending.  But I'm not sure if even that would work at the present time, and
in any case I can wait if a better MEO or an HEO bird is in the offing in
the next few years.  Does anyone know if ME-HI will be possible in the
future, and if so when?  WAS SAT is on my bucket list.  Of course I envy
all of you to the west of me, who can contact HI, but on the other hand it
is nice to be only 3200 or so from London, 3800 miles from Berlin.  We are
all prisoners of our locations, at least until another HEO satellite is in
orbit again.  Thanks for feedback.  And by the way, I'm always happy to
sked with anyone needing FN54, not the rarest grid in ME but a challenge
for many stations, especially out west or so they tell me.

73, Wes NA1ME

From cq.kg6o at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 18:38:48 2020
From: cq.kg6o at gmail.com (Chris Hoffman)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 11:38:48 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c-+wWeEj326y8GG=A9bZT-c+77QAq_=-bnJB94q81gonQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2UYRS2g+srEthMqT3tP61_9Lipm15s-_91CgKCZmP1tyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8990F8DD-EEBC-4975-A5BC-2FE547EFB4FF@gmail.com>
	<776833703.63800.1597034325708@connect.xfinity.com>
	<CANPmdb0Y6ayv1cuJnGMMVggcJ1ni_HXr7bbHvaCQFuQHiEXhsg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-+wWeEj326y8GG=A9bZT-c+77QAq_=-bnJB94q81gonQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANPmdb3pJKV4LJrC9MwnvfCFDF7Ofj4YiGC-UOdJjg9v+zZozw@mail.gmail.com>

That was my mistake, Joseph.

I, too, am sorry for the misrepresentation.

/ch

On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 11:26 AM Joseph Armbruster <
josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:

> Chris,
>
> I am not in Any position of leadership within AMSAT.  And I have not meant
> to mis-represent myself as one if I ever did.  I'm just a life-member.
>
> Joseph Armbruster
> KJ4JIO
>
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 1:51 PM Chris Hoffman <cq.kg6o at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Each thread has a topic, and members are not incapable of intentionally
>> ignoring threads by looking at the subject line.
>>
>>
>> Remember those little boxy things that are whipping around the world that
>>> we enjoy and have fun, learn, develop expertise, and just chat with like
>>> people.  Please knock off the BS!
>>> 73 Bob W7LRD
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Bob and Joseph, as a dues-pyaing AMSAT member, I'm sorry to
>> inconvenience you with my own '...BS,' however, please understand that --to
>> me-- these "...the small things are complicated' or "...watch the birdie"
>> misdirections, and the "...everyone is tired of it, so please knock it
>> off!" comments can serve to undermine your standing as Trusted Leadership
>> in the eyes of Interested Members by making it look as if the board and
>> leadership really do have something to hide.
>>
>> If this is not the correct venue, then what is?
>>
>> Put another way, why even respond to these questions in the Email
>> Threads?
>>
>> Also, Is wishing people would just stop griping and just enjoy the view
>> really a successful strategy?
>>
>>
>> Seeing these comments as you both speak from a position of leadership
>> makes me worry that AMSAT may be lost in the woods, and not on an
>> intentional path. At the moment, I can see NO better forum than an email
>> list to express these concerns, and to suggest that this should not happen
>> is... galling. Fundamentally, I see your comment as deprecating and
>> dismissive of Members in Good Standing who are using the only venue
>> apparently available with any significant level of accountability to air
>> their concerns.
>>
>> There have been some important and simple questions asked: Why hasn't the
>> board of an organization to which members pay dues address some valid
>> questions and show that they are acting in good faith, let alone convene in
>> order to do so? What was really behind the irregular use of funds paid to a
>> law firm, and why was it handled that way? Your membership is smart enough
>> to gain their Ham Radio license, and information is shared more broadly and
>> easily than ever before, so it should be no surprise that a "...you just
>> would not understand, so trust us" response --or silence-- may not have the
>> desired effect.
>>
>> Do you understand that it is some of your comments, combined with
>> [in-]actions --and not the legitimate questions being raised--  which
>> undermine the confidence we have in the board and leadership? At this
>> point, given the proven and highly irregular actions of the board  '... we
>> are making progress,' from the board may not be a sufficient answer to keep
>> the Rabble at a low din.
>>
>>
>> How about we turn this conversation to 'real' subject matter, then?
>> AMSAT is still the preeminent forum within the US to provide new Amateur
>> Radio Satellites. From my chair, however, given how seemingly few AMSAT
>> OSCAR satellites are work-able in-orbit, I'd say we are not as successful
>> in that effort as we have been in the past, and I would like to know why.
>> Can leadership answer these questions for me:
>> - Has a committee been convened to understand what happened with Husky
>> Sat?
>> - What is the full project plan, set of milestones, and real status of
>> GOLF-TEE?
>> - Where does AMSAT stand WRT launch strategies, and can we expect to see
>> more operational FM and Transponder birds any time soon?
>> - How is AMSAT now involved in helping schools get more satellites into
>> the sky, and how is that effort changing?
>> - What resources does AMSAT require to make these things happen?
>> - We are geeks and enthusiasts and funders, and we want to know: how we
>> can help?
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Chris Hoffman
>> N6QR
>> Amsat member # *54687432*
>>
>> (Please email me directly if you would like my cell phone number)
>>
>>
>>> > On 08/09/2020 5:07 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > If AMSAT had regular board meetings, preferably monthly, then things
>>> like this would be taken care of quickly and efficiently.
>>> > >
>>> > > We would all be reading detailed minutes about all the "boring
>>> ordinary" stuff that should be going on - in the Journal.
>>> >
>>> > Exactly! A forensic audit may not be simple but I would hope that
>>> someone within AMSAT could produce a list of physical assets which could be
>>> checked to make sure they are still in AMSAT?s control and inventory. Does
>>> a list of assets exist?
>>> >
>>> > It doesn?t matter who wins this election. The dark cloud over AMSAT
>>> will remain until the members and donors are satisfied that their is no
>>> malfeasance that has, or is, taking place within AMSAT. All the members and
>>> donors can see the smoke and there?s no smoke unless there?s a fire.
>>> >
>>> > It saddens me that no legacy BoD member or Officer running against me
>>> will step-up and join me in requesting that a third-party audit AMSAT. Like
>>> I said, there wouldn?t be any smoke if there wasn?t a fire. This leads many
>>> members to wonder what else is being hidden. There may well be nothing
>>> being hidden but enough has been uncovered that a jury of average people
>>> would not be convinced. There?s a simple way to make the bad thoughts that
>>> members and donors have. Allow a full audit and inventory of AMSAT?s
>>> finances and inventory.
>>> >
>>> > Jeff WE4B
>>> > http://we4bravo.com
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions expressed
>>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>> of AMSAT-NA.
>>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>

From corlissbs at aol.com  Mon Aug 10 18:58:54 2020
From: corlissbs at aol.com (Brad Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 18:58:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Let's Talk Sats
In-Reply-To: <mailman.11494.1597084187.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.11494.1597084187.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <1891580348.2718520.1597085934381@mail.yahoo.com>

In a message dated 8/10/2020 1:43:51 PM Central Standard Time, amsat-bb-request at amsat.org writes: ?<1) We need a separate mailing list for campaign issues in campaign season.>?If there was a separate mailing list for campaign issues, very few people would see or read them. Sadly, there are enough of the uninterested and uninformed now. This organization has to be more than just pointing an antenna into the sky and forgetting that anything else exists, or sooner or later there will be nothing to point to.? Brad KC9UQR

From sjdevience at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 19:17:55 2020
From: sjdevience at gmail.com (Stephen DeVience)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 14:17:55 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] ME to HI for WAS--Possible at present?
Message-ID: <CAMPfQQDaGEOmN9r4V=KYjEEde9gqNCSCDNWf3LXc7L_nihFaiA@mail.gmail.com>

Google maps shows that Bangor ME to the coast of Hawaii is about 8200 km.
Based on the QSO distance records, you're within range for AO-7 and RS-44.

*RS-44 ? 8,357 km.* W5CBF in EM30jf35qi <> DL4EA in JN48ko94cw. 26-May-2020
at 23:07 UTC. (Source: W5CBF)

*AO-7 (B) ? 8,204.592 km. *F4DXV in JN14CH76<> KE9AJ in DM79IQ58.
10-Aug-2020 at 17:49 UTC. (Source: F4DXV)

I know there's some software out there that can tell you what passes to use
given the two locations.


-Stephen, N8URE

From jeff30339 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 19:50:09 2020
From: jeff30339 at gmail.com (Jeff Johns)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 14:50:09 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] ME to HI for WAS--Possible at present?
In-Reply-To: <CAMPfQQDaGEOmN9r4V=KYjEEde9gqNCSCDNWf3LXc7L_nihFaiA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMPfQQDaGEOmN9r4V=KYjEEde9gqNCSCDNWf3LXc7L_nihFaiA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <619FC240-5E4A-4BA3-B994-8CE9360F0541@gmail.com>


> I know there's some software out there that can tell you what passes to use
> given the two locations.

http://satmatch.com can easily let you know when it?s possible. 

Jeff WE4B 
http://we4bravo.com

From ks1g04 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 20:54:40 2020
From: ks1g04 at gmail.com (Stephan Greene)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 16:54:40 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] ME to HI for WAS--Possible at present?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.11493.1597084187.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.11493.1597084187.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <CACZz0S3x_AEw7Us1tEHw6d3tC1gNduQbb-42F3M03Va2NKBr2g@mail.gmail.com>

Wes:  I'm at 49 states on satellite and I've looked into this from FM18 and
sites within the 50 mile WAS radius,  Take a look at satmatch.com, and try
AO-7 and RS-44 with various combinations of grids on the Big Island, maybe
eastern Oahu, etc., and locations within your 50 mile WAS circle (Mt W is
too far, would still be cool!) that have EXCELLENT horizons to the west
(I'm checking sites along Skyline Drive in VA as my best bet).  For me,
there are possibilities with passes at 1-2 deg, and I may have to wait
until the orbital movement puts apogee in the right spot.  There is an
active ham on Oahu, but he has terrain blocking the way for working low
elevations to the east.

So I STRONGLY support GOLF as a return to higher orbits; it's probably
cheaper than a GoFundMe to send someone with a 9700 to the Big Island for a
week or 2. Definitely cheaper than a time machine to gell my younger self
during the AO13 and 40 days to WORK SOMEONE IN HAWAII WHILE YOU CAN! :)

73 Steve KS1G

On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 2:23 PM  <badencapecod at gmail.com>   wrote:

> From: Wes Baden <badencapecod at gmail.com>
>
> Subject: [amsat-bb] ME to HI for WAS--Possible at present?
> Any ideas about the following? My QTH is in Maine, FN54, 120 feet ASL.  I'm
> closing in on WAS, but the problem is going to be Hawaii.  From my rough
> calculations, I need a SAT that has a 4500+ mile footprint, meaning an
> apogee of 1200+ miles, and even then any operating window will be pretty
> short.  Current MEO satellites do not seem to offer a window quite that
> big, or am I missing something?  In theory, I guess, I could go to Mt.
> Washington, NH (fortunately only 90 miles away) and a KH6 could go up on a
> volcanic peak there, to try to make use of over-the-horizon signal
> bending.  But I'm not sure if even that would work at the present time, and
> in any case I can wait if a better MEO or an HEO bird is in the offing in
> the next few years.  Does anyone know if ME-HI will be possible in the
> future, and if so when?  WAS SAT is on my bucket list.  Of course I envy
> all of you to the west of me, who can contact HI, but on the other hand it
> is nice to be only 3200 or so from London, 3800 miles from Berlin.  We are
> all prisoners of our locations, at least until another HEO satellite is in
> orbit again.  Thanks for feedback.  And by the way, I'm always happy to
> sked with anyone needing FN54, not the rarest grid in ME but a challenge
> for many stations, especially out west or so they tell me.
>
> 73, Wes NA1ME
>

From jfitzgerald at alum.wpi.edu  Mon Aug 10 21:11:31 2020
From: jfitzgerald at alum.wpi.edu (Joseph B. Fitzgerald)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 21:11:31 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
In-Reply-To: <CANPmdb3pJKV4LJrC9MwnvfCFDF7Ofj4YiGC-UOdJjg9v+zZozw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2UYRS2g+srEthMqT3tP61_9Lipm15s-_91CgKCZmP1tyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8990F8DD-EEBC-4975-A5BC-2FE547EFB4FF@gmail.com>
	<776833703.63800.1597034325708@connect.xfinity.com>
	<CANPmdb0Y6ayv1cuJnGMMVggcJ1ni_HXr7bbHvaCQFuQHiEXhsg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-+wWeEj326y8GG=A9bZT-c+77QAq_=-bnJB94q81gonQ@mail.gmail.com>,
	<CANPmdb3pJKV4LJrC9MwnvfCFDF7Ofj4YiGC-UOdJjg9v+zZozw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DM5PR22MB0825C386BEA3FF5C1709F49087440@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Chris,

To be clear, I am another Joseph who is just an AMSAT member/worker bee.

The answers to some of your questions are available from official AMSAT sources.

>>
>> If this is not the correct venue, then what is?
>>

>From the "Acceptable Use Policy for the AMSAT Public Mailing Lists" in relevant part:  
"Examples of on-topic posts include ...   [d]iscussion of AMSAT plans and policies ..."

>> - Has a committee been convened to understand what happened with Husky
>> Sat?

See the report from AMSAT Vice President - Engineering Jerry Buxton, N0JY at:
https://www.amsat.org/ans-194-amsat-news-service-weekly-bulletins-for-july-12th/

>> - What is the full project plan, set of milestones, and real status of
>> GOLF-TEE?

https://www.amsat.org/greater-orbit-larger-footprint-an-introduction-to-the-amsat-golf-program/


>> - Where does AMSAT stand WRT launch strategies, and can we expect to see
>> more operational FM and Transponder birds any time soon?
>> - How is AMSAT now involved in helping schools get more satellites into
>> the sky, and how is that effort changing?

RadFXSat-2/Fox1E is completed and waiting for launch on the NASA's ELaNa 20 mission.
Launch date is "TBD".  See:
https://www.nasa.gov/content/upcoming-elana-cubesat-launches

Additionally, AMSAT recently announced a partnership with the University of Maine:
https://www.amsat.org/amsat-partners-with-umaines-wise-net-lab-to-develop-maines-first-small-satellite/


>> - What resources does AMSAT require to make these things happen?
>> - We are geeks and enthusiasts and funders, and we want to know: how we
>> can help?
>>

Volunteers and donations are key to making things happen:

https://www.amsat.org/volunteer-for-amsat/

https://www.amsat.org/donate/


73 de KM1P Joe

From gp_ab5r at outlook.com  Mon Aug 10 22:51:27 2020
From: gp_ab5r at outlook.com (Gerald Payton)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 22:51:27 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Trying AGAIN
Message-ID: <SN6PR11MB27527B9AEE7D20FEAF0AFB04D0440@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

I've tried several times to post to the BB but nothing ever showed!  I'll try again, please Mr. Moderator, whoever you are.

I purchased and downloaded the "Getting Started" booklet but having problems printing the PDF.  It successfully printed pages through Chapter 8 "Digital Modes" and quit.  Regardless what I have tried, printing the remainder has been fruitless.  As you know that eliminates the "Satellite Reference Guide" and "appendices" sections.

I do not believe that this is a local printer problem as it works perfectly on any and all documents and PDFs that I try.

Has anyone else experienced this problem?  A fix?

73,

Jerry AB5R


From bruce at perens.com  Mon Aug 10 23:49:31 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 16:49:31 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
In-Reply-To: <DM5PR22MB0825C386BEA3FF5C1709F49087440@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CACvjz2UYRS2g+srEthMqT3tP61_9Lipm15s-_91CgKCZmP1tyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8990F8DD-EEBC-4975-A5BC-2FE547EFB4FF@gmail.com>
	<776833703.63800.1597034325708@connect.xfinity.com>
	<CANPmdb0Y6ayv1cuJnGMMVggcJ1ni_HXr7bbHvaCQFuQHiEXhsg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-+wWeEj326y8GG=A9bZT-c+77QAq_=-bnJB94q81gonQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANPmdb3pJKV4LJrC9MwnvfCFDF7Ofj4YiGC-UOdJjg9v+zZozw@mail.gmail.com>
	<DM5PR22MB0825C386BEA3FF5C1709F49087440@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOu8h+ZRqN8roEupYHH34i6Y8fD91L+OZf=Jtz2ht-fWtg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 2:14 PM Joseph B. Fitzgerald via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

>
> Volunteers and donations are key to making things happen:
>

Even in normal times, we would like to see that our donations are properly
and efficiently directed to projects that matter. Members and other donors
become reluctant when they see the organization:

* Spends money from its general fund on a legal pursuit against its own
members.
* Diverts a large earmarked donation from an individual to another purpose
than that specified by the donor.
* Makes significant financial decisions that do not appear in any board or
committee minutes.
* Declines calls to hold board meetings regularly, or when requested by
directors, which would make decisions visible to the membership.
* Spends 3/4 of membership dues on salary (from 2018 Form 990).
* Declines calls to make a full financial accounting to the membership.

    Thanks

    Bruce

From stephennipper at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 00:17:55 2020
From: stephennipper at gmail.com (H. Stephen Nipper)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 18:17:55 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOu8h+ZRqN8roEupYHH34i6Y8fD91L+OZf=Jtz2ht-fWtg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2UYRS2g+srEthMqT3tP61_9Lipm15s-_91CgKCZmP1tyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8990F8DD-EEBC-4975-A5BC-2FE547EFB4FF@gmail.com>
	<776833703.63800.1597034325708@connect.xfinity.com>
	<CANPmdb0Y6ayv1cuJnGMMVggcJ1ni_HXr7bbHvaCQFuQHiEXhsg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-+wWeEj326y8GG=A9bZT-c+77QAq_=-bnJB94q81gonQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANPmdb3pJKV4LJrC9MwnvfCFDF7Ofj4YiGC-UOdJjg9v+zZozw@mail.gmail.com>
	<DM5PR22MB0825C386BEA3FF5C1709F49087440@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAK2MWOu8h+ZRqN8roEupYHH34i6Y8fD91L+OZf=Jtz2ht-fWtg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPf7+3rJy05rzFu8f_9Ck4OTXZaFKunMYvc8WvmnSZB03RXZ8w@mail.gmail.com>

Give us a break.   You can only beat the horse so many times, that people
stop listening.

On Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 5:51 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 2:14 PM Joseph B. Fitzgerald via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> >
> > Volunteers and donations are key to making things happen:
> >
>
> Even in normal times, we would like to see that our donations are properly
> and efficiently directed to projects that matter. Members and other donors
> become reluctant when they see the organization:
>
> * Spends money from its general fund on a legal pursuit against its own
> members.
> * Diverts a large earmarked donation from an individual to another purpose
> than that specified by the donor.
> * Makes significant financial decisions that do not appear in any board or
> committee minutes.
> * Declines calls to hold board meetings regularly, or when requested by
> directors, which would make decisions visible to the membership.
> * Spends 3/4 of membership dues on salary (from 2018 Form 990).
> * Declines calls to make a full financial accounting to the membership.
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Bruce
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From bruce at perens.com  Tue Aug 11 00:26:43 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 17:26:43 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
In-Reply-To: <CAPf7+3rJy05rzFu8f_9Ck4OTXZaFKunMYvc8WvmnSZB03RXZ8w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2UYRS2g+srEthMqT3tP61_9Lipm15s-_91CgKCZmP1tyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8990F8DD-EEBC-4975-A5BC-2FE547EFB4FF@gmail.com>
	<776833703.63800.1597034325708@connect.xfinity.com>
	<CANPmdb0Y6ayv1cuJnGMMVggcJ1ni_HXr7bbHvaCQFuQHiEXhsg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-+wWeEj326y8GG=A9bZT-c+77QAq_=-bnJB94q81gonQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANPmdb3pJKV4LJrC9MwnvfCFDF7Ofj4YiGC-UOdJjg9v+zZozw@mail.gmail.com>
	<DM5PR22MB0825C386BEA3FF5C1709F49087440@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAK2MWOu8h+ZRqN8roEupYHH34i6Y8fD91L+OZf=Jtz2ht-fWtg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPf7+3rJy05rzFu8f_9Ck4OTXZaFKunMYvc8WvmnSZB03RXZ8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOsbheF1U4OGOPcWKOAaFcwC1oh-N36OZcZ_7HPS6rp72g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 5:18 PM H. Stephen Nipper <stephennipper at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Give us a break.   You can only beat the horse so many times, that people
> stop listening.
>

OK. I was trying to respond to Joseph's point, which was, to paraphrase,
that nothing happens without donations. My point is that you have to appear
worthy of donations. I will assume that you understand that now :-)

    Thanks

    Bruce

From stephennipper at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 00:32:17 2020
From: stephennipper at gmail.com (H. Stephen Nipper)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 18:32:17 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOsbheF1U4OGOPcWKOAaFcwC1oh-N36OZcZ_7HPS6rp72g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2UYRS2g+srEthMqT3tP61_9Lipm15s-_91CgKCZmP1tyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8990F8DD-EEBC-4975-A5BC-2FE547EFB4FF@gmail.com>
	<776833703.63800.1597034325708@connect.xfinity.com>
	<CANPmdb0Y6ayv1cuJnGMMVggcJ1ni_HXr7bbHvaCQFuQHiEXhsg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-+wWeEj326y8GG=A9bZT-c+77QAq_=-bnJB94q81gonQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANPmdb3pJKV4LJrC9MwnvfCFDF7Ofj4YiGC-UOdJjg9v+zZozw@mail.gmail.com>
	<DM5PR22MB0825C386BEA3FF5C1709F49087440@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAK2MWOu8h+ZRqN8roEupYHH34i6Y8fD91L+OZf=Jtz2ht-fWtg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPf7+3rJy05rzFu8f_9Ck4OTXZaFKunMYvc8WvmnSZB03RXZ8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOsbheF1U4OGOPcWKOAaFcwC1oh-N36OZcZ_7HPS6rp72g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPf7+3qx9b=_-8nJSMdNC3n2jPe4qbRnUx-bNZeJ6ru4y6F5iw@mail.gmail.com>

Correct. That is why I made a cash donation to the legal fund.  I think we
realize that in September more money will be needed.

I read your webpage where you told people to keep posting this stuff.  We
have heard it so many times you are hurting your cause.

On Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 6:26 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 5:18 PM H. Stephen Nipper <stephennipper at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Give us a break.   You can only beat the horse so many times, that people
>> stop listening.
>>
>
> OK. I was trying to respond to Joseph's point, which was, to paraphrase,
> that nothing happens without donations. My point is that you have to appear
> worthy of donations. I will assume that you understand that now :-)
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Bruce
>

From hans.bx2abt at msa.hinet.net  Tue Aug 11 00:42:01 2020
From: hans.bx2abt at msa.hinet.net (Hans BX2ABT)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 08:42:01 +0800
Subject: [amsat-bb] QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <CAPRXzypQh-_n8kxF-2su3h8XSOY3aLMppTRt++L+qyP_9E+pqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <705461297.1689901.1597034664751.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<705461297.1689901.1597034664751@mail.yahoo.com>
	<001101d66efd$7ed46bc0$7c7d4340$@mindspring.com>
	<6a84ff2f-7f95-7c68-d463-d5cd1c10629f@msa.hinet.net>
	<CAPRXzypQh-_n8kxF-2su3h8XSOY3aLMppTRt++L+qyP_9E+pqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17b5adf0-fdca-6da3-d180-214104dd91ea@msa.hinet.net>

Probably me being tired late at night: I guess I meant 20 minutes. My 
bad. --Hans


On 8/10/20 11:18 PM, Mark L. Hammond wrote:
> Hello Hans and the list--
>
> AO-92 is currently experiencing around 35 mins of ellipse and then 60 
> minutes of sunlight per orbit.?? I read the "..roughly 2 hours after 
> it entered eclipse" and that caught my attention and as they say, 
> "made me look." ;-)
>
> Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
> AMSAT Director and Command Station
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 10:18 AM Hans BX2ABT via AMSAT-BB 
> <amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>> wrote:
>
>     Yes, just had it drop into safe-mode towards the end of our nightly
>     pass, roughly 2 hours after it entered eclipse. --Hans
>
>     On 8/10/20 6:03 PM, Andrew Glasbrenner via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>     > AO-92 is currently dropping into safe mode due to low voltage
>     near the end of eclipse on some orbits. Right now that's the end
>     of the ascending, evening passes, and it's also dependent on the
>     load the previous orbit. As soon as the satellite hits
>     illumination again, it automatically comes out of safe mode. It's
>     unfortunate that this is happening over North America right now,
>     but it's the control software preventing the batteries from over
>     discharge, which is a good thing.
>     >
>     > Remember you can always check the latest telemetry at
>     https://www.amsat.org/tlm/leaderboard.php?id=0&db=FOXDB
>     >
>     > 73, Drew KO4MA
>     > AMSAT VP Operations
>     >
>     > -----Original Message-----
>     > From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org
>     <mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org>> On Behalf Of Rosa & Robert
>     Fitzpatrick via AMSAT-BB
>     > Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 12:44 AM
>     > To: amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>     > Subject: [amsat-bb] QUESTION
>     >
>     > WHAT GOING ON WITH AO-92 . I HEAR IT IS IN SAFE MODE.IS
>     <http://MODE.IS> THER A PROBLEM WITH AO-92 ??????BOB/KB5SQG
>     _______________________________________________
>     > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>.
>     AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons
>     worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are
>     solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>     of AMSAT-NA.
>     > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
>     satellite program!
>     > Subscription settings:
>     https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>.
>     AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>     > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
>     membership. Opinions expressed
>     > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>     views of AMSAT-NA.
>     > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
>     satellite program!
>     > Subscription settings:
>     https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>     >
>     >
>     _______________________________________________
>     Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA
>     makes this open forum available
>     to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>     Opinions expressed
>     are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>     views of AMSAT-NA.
>     Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>     program!
>     Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From rhyolite at leikhim.com  Tue Aug 11 01:25:54 2020
From: rhyolite at leikhim.com (Joe Leikhim)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 21:25:54 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb]  Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
Message-ID: <72171e4e-5144-7a3c-4a9f-32e9aeda33fa@leikhim.com>

That is sort of what has happened to the NRA!

I doubt we have any "grifters" in AMSAT. To be safe, look out for any Jaguar owners as Jeremy Clarkson of Top Gear points out.

That said the P&L statement should be reviewed.

Locally, our ex mayor decided to buy a failing golf course with our stormwater funds to save it from development. An action clearly benefiting only one neighborhood. Depending on who you talk to on a given day, it is either making or losing money. This is a case where the P&L needs to be made public.

"Yes. I see the ?plot? clearly now. A few grifters decided the best way to get ?rich" was to join a ham radio organization. They would lay low for 10-30 years so as not to arouse suspicion. They would volunteer their time and efforts for decades to provide an smokescreen so other members wouldn?t suspect that they would one day steal money and inventory from the coffers and then refuse to provide a detailed accounting when requested?


Jeff, KE9V"

-- 
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

JLeikhim at Leikhim.com

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM


From almetco at comcast.net  Tue Aug 11 03:20:37 2020
From: almetco at comcast.net (Greg)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 23:20:37 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
In-Reply-To: <72171e4e-5144-7a3c-4a9f-32e9aeda33fa@leikhim.com>
References: <72171e4e-5144-7a3c-4a9f-32e9aeda33fa@leikhim.com>
Message-ID: <A6F95B40-7488-48DC-81BD-AC370BBAE008@comcast.net>

As an ex-CPA I ask, has anyone realized what the cost of such an audit would be?  I can tell you that unless you have a reasonable suspicion and probability, not possibility, of fraudulent activities, you will just burn many thousands that could be used on satellites.  

Greg
N3MVF

On Aug 10, 2020, at 9:25 PM, Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

That is sort of what has happened to the NRA!

I doubt we have any "grifters" in AMSAT. To be safe, look out for any Jaguar owners as Jeremy Clarkson of Top Gear points out.

That said the P&L statement should be reviewed.

Locally, our ex mayor decided to buy a failing golf course with our stormwater funds to save it from development. An action clearly benefiting only one neighborhood. Depending on who you talk to on a given day, it is either making or losing money. This is a case where the P&L needs to be made public.

"Yes. I see the ?plot? clearly now. A few grifters decided the best way to get ?rich" was to join a ham radio organization. They would lay low for 10-30 years so as not to arouse suspicion. They would volunteer their time and efforts for decades to provide an smokescreen so other members wouldn?t suspect that they would one day steal money and inventory from the coffers and then refuse to provide a detailed accounting when requested?


Jeff, KE9V"

-- 
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

JLeikhim at Leikhim.com

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From jeff30339 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 04:41:27 2020
From: jeff30339 at gmail.com (Jeff Johns)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 23:41:27 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
In-Reply-To: <A6F95B40-7488-48DC-81BD-AC370BBAE008@comcast.net>
References: <A6F95B40-7488-48DC-81BD-AC370BBAE008@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <D2FA0D4D-4434-4FA9-9EFD-01EC05BB9873@gmail.com>

I am aware of what the costs would be but wouldn?t it be better to bite the bullet and remove the cloud from AMSAT? I feel that by not doing so it could be more costly by losing more member and donor dollars. 

Based on reports from two BoDs, tens of thousands of dollars were spent unwisely and against bylaws. It?s time to spend some money wisely in an open and transparent fashion. 

IMHO, it would be best to go ahead and make the cloud go away. I?ve asked those running against me to speak-up and join me in this call but I have heard nothing from them. I have, however, received many emails from regular members that agree with me so I?m not the only one that wants this to happen. 

For this to happen, it would require the Board to meet (which they don?t currently do on a regular basis) and for a motion to be made and passed. There?s definitely smoke that many members see and smoke only comes from fires. Let?s put out this fire, once and for all, and move forward. By not putting out the fire the FUD will remain and that will cost AMSAT money in the form of lost members and donations. 

Jeff WE4B 
http://we4bravo.com 

> On Aug 10, 2020, at 10:26 PM, Greg via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?As an ex-CPA I ask, has anyone realized what the cost of such an audit would be?  I can tell you that unless you have a reasonable suspicion and probability, not possibility, of fraudulent activities, you will just burn many thousands that could be used on satellites.  
> 
> Greg
> N3MVF
> 
> On Aug 10, 2020, at 9:25 PM, Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> That is sort of what has happened to the NRA!
> 
> I doubt we have any "grifters" in AMSAT. To be safe, look out for any Jaguar owners as Jeremy Clarkson of Top Gear points out.
> 
> That said the P&L statement should be reviewed.
> 
> Locally, our ex mayor decided to buy a failing golf course with our stormwater funds to save it from development. An action clearly benefiting only one neighborhood. Depending on who you talk to on a given day, it is either making or losing money. This is a case where the P&L needs to be made public.
> 
> "Yes. I see the ?plot? clearly now. A few grifters decided the best way to get ?rich" was to join a ham radio organization. They would lay low for 10-30 years so as not to arouse suspicion. They would volunteer their time and efforts for decades to provide an smokescreen so other members wouldn?t suspect that they would one day steal money and inventory from the coffers and then refuse to provide a detailed accounting when requested?
> 
> 
> Jeff, KE9V"
> 
> -- 
> Joe Leikhim
> 
> 
> Leikhim and Associates
> 
> Communications Consultants
> 
> Oviedo, Florida
> 
> JLeikhim at Leikhim.com
> 
> 407-982-0446
> 
> WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From bruce at perens.com  Tue Aug 11 05:00:25 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 22:00:25 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
In-Reply-To: <72171e4e-5144-7a3c-4a9f-32e9aeda33fa@leikhim.com>
References: <72171e4e-5144-7a3c-4a9f-32e9aeda33fa@leikhim.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOteL0FirOU-ALCOQMAw8dxZesjbKSeooATKHvPd9sHChQ@mail.gmail.com>

Joe, Nobody is accusing anyone of ripping off.

From bruce at perens.com  Tue Aug 11 05:14:17 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 22:14:17 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
In-Reply-To: <A6F95B40-7488-48DC-81BD-AC370BBAE008@comcast.net>
References: <72171e4e-5144-7a3c-4a9f-32e9aeda33fa@leikhim.com>
	<A6F95B40-7488-48DC-81BD-AC370BBAE008@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOukBR1-dFE5af8XfDchkNQoxb2prPqW8O32DmZe=NWA5A@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 8:22 PM Greg via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> As an ex-CPA I ask, has anyone realized what the cost of such an audit
> would be?  I can tell you that unless you have a reasonable suspicion and
> probability, not possibility, of fraudulent activities, you will just burn
> many thousands that could be used on satellites.
>

Just publish the books. Anonymize donors (unless they wish otherwise).
Martha's salary is public knowledge, it's on the form 990. I can't think of
what else there is that would have to be secret.

>

From rhyolite at leikhim.com  Tue Aug 11 06:12:12 2020
From: rhyolite at leikhim.com (rhyolite)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 02:12:12 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOteL0FirOU-ALCOQMAw8dxZesjbKSeooATKHvPd9sHChQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1k5NWB-000jCM-No@se3-lax1.servconfig.com>

Nor am I but there is a cloud to be lifted.? The P&L should not be a burden. Money in, money out. There is a P&L ?Sent from my Galaxy Tab? A
-------- Original message --------From: Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> Date: 8/11/20  1:00 AM  (GMT-05:00) To: Joe Leikhim <rhyolite at leikhim.com> Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory Joe, Nobody is accusing anyone of ripping off.

From bruce at perens.com  Tue Aug 11 06:19:02 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 23:19:02 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
In-Reply-To: <E1k5NWB-000jCM-No@se3-lax1.servconfig.com>
References: <CAK2MWOteL0FirOU-ALCOQMAw8dxZesjbKSeooATKHvPd9sHChQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1k5NWB-000jCM-No@se3-lax1.servconfig.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOvFxgPAFv3Z7uQPdrxDgOWJ8cPtKVDr4byK=dvweQvGhw@mail.gmail.com>

This is what is public at present:
https://www.amsat.org/audit-and-other-financial-reports/

On Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 11:12 PM rhyolite <rhyolite at leikhim.com> wrote:

> Nor am I but there is a cloud to be lifted.  The P&L should not be a
> burden. Money in, money out. There is a P&L ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Galaxy Tab? A
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com>
> Date: 8/11/20 1:00 AM (GMT-05:00)
> To: Joe Leikhim <rhyolite at leikhim.com>
> Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an
> inventory
>
> Joe, Nobody is accusing anyone of ripping off.
>

From almetco at comcast.net  Tue Aug 11 09:56:11 2020
From: almetco at comcast.net (Greg)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 05:56:11 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
In-Reply-To: <D2FA0D4D-4434-4FA9-9EFD-01EC05BB9873@gmail.com>
References: <A6F95B40-7488-48DC-81BD-AC370BBAE008@comcast.net>
	<D2FA0D4D-4434-4FA9-9EFD-01EC05BB9873@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8C86506-A3AE-4FB5-AC82-DAAC1FADC4D5@comcast.net>

First of all, if money was spent unwisely, that is still not a reason for a forensic audit. If it was against bylaws and they have the proof, your issue isn?t getting a forensic accountant, its determining what your actions should be under those bylaws. Unless the money was ?coded? to an area that makes the transaction invisible, then that may be different. For example, legal fees were capitalized into satellite costs.  Even still, when the auditor released the audited financial statements, during his field work, his test are not to detect fraud but proper classification of such items.  He can use various tests from looking at transactions that might have an attorneys name shown as a satellite cost etc using various sampling techniques.  His audit attests that the statements are a true financial accounting picture of the organization.  However financial audits, those that attest financial statements, are not conducted to catch fraud though they do many times.

So, forensic accounting cost is a waste of money unless you suspect fraud.  If the two directors suspect fraud, show the evidence and that will take the cloud of suspicion away.  Then do a forensic fraud to account for losses.  Other wise, burn the money.

ex-CPA
Greg
N3MVF

 

On Aug 11, 2020, at 12:41 AM, Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

I am aware of what the costs would be but wouldn?t it be better to bite the bullet and remove the cloud from AMSAT? I feel that by not doing so it could be more costly by losing more member and donor dollars. 

Based on reports from two BoDs, tens of thousands of dollars were spent unwisely and against bylaws. It?s time to spend some money wisely in an open and transparent fashion. 

IMHO, it would be best to go ahead and make the cloud go away. I?ve asked those running against me to speak-up and join me in this call but I have heard nothing from them. I have, however, received many emails from regular members that agree with me so I?m not the only one that wants this to happen. 

For this to happen, it would require the Board to meet (which they don?t currently do on a regular basis) and for a motion to be made and passed. There?s definitely smoke that many members see and smoke only comes from fires. Let?s put out this fire, once and for all, and move forward. By not putting out the fire the FUD will remain and that will cost AMSAT money in the form of lost members and donations. 

Jeff WE4B 
http://we4bravo.com 

> On Aug 10, 2020, at 10:26 PM, Greg via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?As an ex-CPA I ask, has anyone realized what the cost of such an audit would be?  I can tell you that unless you have a reasonable suspicion and probability, not possibility, of fraudulent activities, you will just burn many thousands that could be used on satellites.  
> 
> Greg
> N3MVF
> 
> On Aug 10, 2020, at 9:25 PM, Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> That is sort of what has happened to the NRA!
> 
> I doubt we have any "grifters" in AMSAT. To be safe, look out for any Jaguar owners as Jeremy Clarkson of Top Gear points out.
> 
> That said the P&L statement should be reviewed.
> 
> Locally, our ex mayor decided to buy a failing golf course with our stormwater funds to save it from development. An action clearly benefiting only one neighborhood. Depending on who you talk to on a given day, it is either making or losing money. This is a case where the P&L needs to be made public.
> 
> "Yes. I see the ?plot? clearly now. A few grifters decided the best way to get ?rich" was to join a ham radio organization. They would lay low for 10-30 years so as not to arouse suspicion. They would volunteer their time and efforts for decades to provide an smokescreen so other members wouldn?t suspect that they would one day steal money and inventory from the coffers and then refuse to provide a detailed accounting when requested?
> 
> 
> Jeff, KE9V"
> 
> -- 
> Joe Leikhim
> 
> 
> Leikhim and Associates
> 
> Communications Consultants
> 
> Oviedo, Florida
> 
> JLeikhim at Leikhim.com
> 
> 407-982-0446
> 
> WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From gary_mayfield at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 11 12:28:03 2020
From: gary_mayfield at hotmail.com (Gary)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 12:28:03 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] RS Satellite Robot
Message-ID: <CH2PR13MB386412080D3716C1C75F935C8A450@CH2PR13MB3864.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

A question came up on Facebook about a QSL from a satellite. I remember some of the RS Satellites carried a 'Robot' which would QSO you with a serial number. You could then send that information to Box 88 in Moscow and receive a QSL. A quick Google search did not turn up any pictures of the cards.

I would love to see one, and I am sure they are out there. Anyone have any links?


73,
Gary "Joe" kk0sd

From ko6th.greg at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 16:03:18 2020
From: ko6th.greg at gmail.com (Greg D)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 09:03:18 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] RS Satellite Robot
In-Reply-To: <CH2PR13MB386412080D3716C1C75F935C8A450@CH2PR13MB3864.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CH2PR13MB386412080D3716C1C75F935C8A450@CH2PR13MB3864.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <e2db80f8-998d-64b8-9a89-ff73ee76fb9e@gmail.com>

Hi Gary,

The satellite was RS-13.  A little fiddly to make it work (my fist
wasn't good then, and hasn't improved since), but with some patience one
could make a contact.  A quick search in the AMSAT archives turned up
this article:

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/archive/amsat-bb/199905/msg00084.html

Good fun,

Greg  KO6TH


Gary via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> A question came up on Facebook about a QSL from a satellite. I remember some of the RS Satellites carried a 'Robot' which would QSO you with a serial number. You could then send that information to Box 88 in Moscow and receive a QSL. A quick Google search did not turn up any pictures of the cards.
>
> I would love to see one, and I am sure they are out there. Anyone have any links?
>
>
> 73,
> Gary "Joe" kk0sd
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From vlfiscus at mcn.net  Tue Aug 11 17:24:27 2020
From: vlfiscus at mcn.net (Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 11:24:27 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] RS Satellite Robot
In-Reply-To: <e2db80f8-998d-64b8-9a89-ff73ee76fb9e@gmail.com>
References: <CH2PR13MB386412080D3716C1C75F935C8A450@CH2PR13MB3864.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
	<CH2PR13MB386412080D3716C1C75F935C8A450@CH2PR13MB3864.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20200811112124.02124118@pop.earthlink.net>

At 09:03 AM 8/11/2020 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi Gary,
>
>The satellite was RS-13.  A little fiddly to make it work (my fist
>wasn't good then, and hasn't improved since), but with some patience one
>could make a contact.  A quick search in the AMSAT archives turned up
>this article:
>
>https://www.amsat.org/amsat/archive/amsat-bb/199905/msg00084.html
>
>Good fun,
>
>Greg  KO6TH


RS-10/11 had a robot too.  Worked it many times.  The neat
thing to me about the robot was that it would reply back to
you and the same CW speed you were sending.

Never bothered to try and get a qsl card.

KB7ADL


From aj9n at aol.com  Tue Aug 11 16:23:52 2020
From: aj9n at aol.com (aj9n at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 16:23:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-11 16:30
	UTC
References: <1949714332.241887.1597163032628.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1949714332.241887.1597163032628@mail.yahoo.com>


Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-11 16:30 UTC

?

Quick list of scheduled contacts and events:

?

Sorry gang for the lack of a heads up but we just found out about this contact today.? (***)

?

GAGARIN FROM SPACE. Performing a radio amateur session with schoolchildren of Tatarstan, Russia, direct via RZ4PXO (***)

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be RS?ISS (***)

The scheduled astronaut is Ivan Vagner (***)

Contact was successful for: 2020-08-07 11:18 UTC (***)

?

?

Kopernik Observatory & Science Center, Vestal, NY, direct via K2ZRO 

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be NA1SS

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR 

Contact is go for: Fri 2020-08-21 18:23:40 UTC 29 deg 

?

?

########################################################################################################################################

A multi-point telebridge contact means that each student will be on the telebridge from their own home.

*************************************************

?

ARISS is very aware of the impact that COVID-19 is having on schools and the public in general.? As such, we may have last minute cancellations or postponements of school contacts.? As always, I will try to provide everyone with near-real-time updates.? 

?

The following schools have now been postponed or cancelled due to COVID-19:? 

?

Postponed:

No new schools

?

Cancelled:

No new schools

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

?

Watch for future COVID-19 related announcements here also.

?

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

?

Note, all times are approximate. ?It is recommended that you do your own 

orbital prediction?or start listening about 10 minutes before the listed 

time. 

All dates and times listed follow International Standard ISO 8601 date and 

time format YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS

?

The complete schedule page has been updated as of?2020-08-11 16:30 UTC. (***)

Here you will find a listing of all scheduled?school contacts, and 

questions, other ISS related websites, IRLP and Echolink websites, and 

instructions for any contact that may be streamed live.

?

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf 

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.txt 

?

?

The successful school list has been updated as of 2020-08-11 16:30 UTC.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/Successful_ARISS_schools.rtf 

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

?

Message to US Educators

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States) 

?

The Proposal Window of February 1, 2020 to March 31, 2020 has now closed.

?

For future proposal information and more details such as expectations, proposal guidelines and proposal form, and dates and times of Information Webinars, go to www.ariss.org.

?

Please direct any questions to?ariss.us.education at gmail.com.

?

About ARISS:

?

Amateur Radio on the International Space Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radio societies and the space agencies that support the International Space Station (ISS).? In the United States, sponsors are the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio Relay League (ARRL), the ISS National Lab and National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEAM) topics by organizing scheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS and students in classrooms or public forms. Before and during these radio contacts, students, educators, parents, and communities learn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. For more information, see www.ariss.org.

?

********************************************************************************

ARISS Contact Applications (Europe, Africa and the Middle East)

?

Schools and Youth organizations in Europe, Africa and the Middle East interested in setting up an ARISS radio contact with an astronaut on board the International Space Station are invited to submit an application from September to October and from February to April.

Please refer to details and the application form at www.ariss-eu.org/school-contacts.? Applications should be addressed by email to:? school.selection.manager at ariss-eu.org

?

ARISS Contact Applications (Canada, Central and South America, Asia and Australia and Russia)

?

Organizations outside the United States can apply for an ARISS contact by filling out an application.? Please direct questions to the appropriate regional representative listed below. If your country is not specifically listed, send your questions to the nearest ARISS Region listed. If you are unsure which address to use, please send your question to the ARISS-Canada representative; they will forward your question to the appropriate coordinator.

?

For the application, go to:? https://www.ariss.org/ariss-application.html.

ARISS-Canada and the Americas, except USA: Steve McFarlane, VE3TBD email to: ve3tbd at gmail.com

ARISS-Japan, Asia, Pacific and Australia: Satoshi Yasuda, 7M3TJZ email to: ariss at iaru-r3.org, Japan Amateur Radio League (JARL) https://www.jarl.org/

ARISS-Russia: Soyuz Radioljubitelei Rossii (SRR) https://srr.ru/

?

?

******************************************************************************

ARISS is always glad to receive listener reports for the above contacts.? ARISS thanks everyone in advance for their assistance.? Feel free to send your reports to aj9n at amsat.org or aj9n at aol.com.

?

Listen for the ISS on the downlink of 145.8? MHz.

?

*******************************************************************************

?

All ARISS contacts are made via the Kenwood radio unless otherwise noted.

?

*******************************************************************************


Several of you have sent me emails asking about the RAC ARISS website and 
not being able to get in. ?That has now been changed to https://www.ariss.org/

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

****************************************************************************

Looking for something new to do?? How about receiving DATV from the ISS?? Please note that the HamTV system has been brought back to earth for troubleshooting.? Please monitor ARISS-EU or ARISS-ON for the very latest news on the troubleshooting efforts.? 

?

If interested, then please go to the ARISS-EU website for complete details.? Look for the buttons indicating Ham Video.???????????? 

?

http://www.ariss-eu.org/

?

If you need some assistance, ARISS mentor Kerry N6IZW, might be able to provide some insight.? Contact Kerry at kbanke at sbcglobal.net

?

?

The HamTV webpage:? https://www.amsat-on.be/hamtv-summary/

?

?

****************************************************************************
ARISS congratulations the following mentors who have now mentored over 100 schools: 

?

Francesco IK?WGF with 140

Satoshi 7M3TJZ with 138 

Sergey RV3DR with 135 (***) 

Gaston ON4WF with 123

?

****************************************************************************

The webpages listed below were all reviewed for accuracy. Out of date 

webpages were removed, and new ones have been added.? If there are additional 

ARISS websites I need to know about, please let me know.

?

?

?

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school events is 1394. (***)

Each school counts as 1 event.?????????????????????????????????? 

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school contacts is 1327. (***)

Each contact may have multiple schools sharing the same time slot.

Total number of ARISS supported terrestrial contacts is 48. 

?

A complete year by year breakdown of the contacts may be found in the 

file.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf

?

Please feel free to contact me if more detailed statistics are needed.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



The following US states and entities have never had an ARISS contact:
South Dakota, Wyoming, American?Samoa, Guam, Northern Marianas Islands, and the Virgin Islands.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

?

QSL information may be found at:

https://www.ariss.org/qsl-cards.html

?

ISS callsigns: DP?ISS, IR?ISS, NA1SS, OR4ISS, RS?ISS

?

****************************************************************************



Frequency chart for packet, voice, and crossband repeater modes showing 

Doppler correction as of 2005-07-29 04:00 UTC

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/ISS_frequencies_and_Doppler_correction.rtf



Check out the Zoho reports of the ARISS contacts

?

https://reports.zoho.com/ZDBDataSheetView.cc?DBID=412218000000020415

****************************************************************************

?

Exp. 62 now on orbit 

Chris Cassidy KF5KDR

Anatoli Ivanishin

Ivan Vagner

****************************************************************************

73,

Charlie?Sufana AJ9N
One of the ARISS operation team mentors

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From bruce at perens.com  Tue Aug 11 16:25:49 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 09:25:49 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory
In-Reply-To: <B8C86506-A3AE-4FB5-AC82-DAAC1FADC4D5@comcast.net>
References: <A6F95B40-7488-48DC-81BD-AC370BBAE008@comcast.net>
	<D2FA0D4D-4434-4FA9-9EFD-01EC05BB9873@gmail.com>
	<B8C86506-A3AE-4FB5-AC82-DAAC1FADC4D5@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOsowORM+N5RKjC7wwLASiJQ3fnM5MGnA0MzrW_fc3Xgug@mail.gmail.com>

Greg,

Many organizations and companies operate with open books. This would help
to achieve a greater trust level. Forensic accounting is something that can
be called for if the books, once disclosed, show a problem. But simply
opening them is better, because it allows anyone to perform their own
audit, with professional staff if necessary. Just take pictures of the
ledger, page by page (assuming Martha has done it the same way since 1970)
or publish a CSV file. Black out names for privacy if necessary.

The 990 and annual audits show the larger picture, to an extent, but they
only list column items like "legal and accounting expenses" - yes, those
two were grouped together, potentially obscuring an issue. I think the
question here goes to individual expenditures, and whether there are any
board or committee minutes corresponding to them.

I will also recommend that ORI publish its books. It's their decision, not
mine.

    Thanks

    Bruce

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 2:59 AM Greg via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> First of all, if money was spent unwisely, that is still not a reason for
> a forensic audit. If it was against bylaws and they have the proof, your
> issue isn?t getting a forensic accountant, its determining what your
> actions should be under those bylaws. Unless the money was ?coded? to an
> area that makes the transaction invisible, then that may be different. For
> example, legal fees were capitalized into satellite costs.  Even still,
> when the auditor released the audited financial statements, during his
> field work, his test are not to detect fraud but proper classification of
> such items.  He can use various tests from looking at transactions that
> might have an attorneys name shown as a satellite cost etc using various
> sampling techniques.  His audit attests that the statements are a true
> financial accounting picture of the organization.  However financial
> audits, those that attest financial statements, are not conducted to catch
> fraud though they do many times.
>
> So, forensic accounting cost is a waste of money unless you suspect
> fraud.  If the two directors suspect fraud, show the evidence and that will
> take the cloud of suspicion away.  Then do a forensic fraud to account for
> losses.  Other wise, burn the money.
>
> ex-CPA
> Greg
> N3MVF
>
>
>
> On Aug 11, 2020, at 12:41 AM, Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
> I am aware of what the costs would be but wouldn?t it be better to bite
> the bullet and remove the cloud from AMSAT? I feel that by not doing so it
> could be more costly by losing more member and donor dollars.
>
> Based on reports from two BoDs, tens of thousands of dollars were spent
> unwisely and against bylaws. It?s time to spend some money wisely in an
> open and transparent fashion.
>
> IMHO, it would be best to go ahead and make the cloud go away. I?ve asked
> those running against me to speak-up and join me in this call but I have
> heard nothing from them. I have, however, received many emails from regular
> members that agree with me so I?m not the only one that wants this to
> happen.
>
> For this to happen, it would require the Board to meet (which they don?t
> currently do on a regular basis) and for a motion to be made and passed.
> There?s definitely smoke that many members see and smoke only comes from
> fires. Let?s put out this fire, once and for all, and move forward. By not
> putting out the fire the FUD will remain and that will cost AMSAT money in
> the form of lost members and donations.
>
> Jeff WE4B
> http://we4bravo.com
>
> > On Aug 10, 2020, at 10:26 PM, Greg via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > ?As an ex-CPA I ask, has anyone realized what the cost of such an audit
> would be?  I can tell you that unless you have a reasonable suspicion and
> probability, not possibility, of fraudulent activities, you will just burn
> many thousands that could be used on satellites.
> >
> > Greg
> > N3MVF
> >
> > On Aug 10, 2020, at 9:25 PM, Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > That is sort of what has happened to the NRA!
> >
> > I doubt we have any "grifters" in AMSAT. To be safe, look out for any
> Jaguar owners as Jeremy Clarkson of Top Gear points out.
> >
> > That said the P&L statement should be reviewed.
> >
> > Locally, our ex mayor decided to buy a failing golf course with our
> stormwater funds to save it from development. An action clearly benefiting
> only one neighborhood. Depending on who you talk to on a given day, it is
> either making or losing money. This is a case where the P&L needs to be
> made public.
> >
> > "Yes. I see the ?plot? clearly now. A few grifters decided the best way
> to get ?rich" was to join a ham radio organization. They would lay low for
> 10-30 years so as not to arouse suspicion. They would volunteer their time
> and efforts for decades to provide an smokescreen so other members wouldn?t
> suspect that they would one day steal money and inventory from the coffers
> and then refuse to provide a detailed accounting when requested?
> >
> >
> > Jeff, KE9V"
> >
> > --
> > Joe Leikhim
> >
> >
> > Leikhim and Associates
> >
> > Communications Consultants
> >
> > Oviedo, Florida
> >
> > JLeikhim at Leikhim.com
> >
> > 407-982-0446
> >
> > WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From bruce at perens.com  Tue Aug 11 22:58:45 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 15:58:45 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Cubesat Design Specification update call for review
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOsgDFHKaRBvMh+qo3m+c1B8NRYR+wpd12R_WoiDuseB7A@mail.gmail.com>

Cal Poly wants feedback for their new spec at
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5418c831e4b0fa4ecac1bacd/t/5f24997b6deea10cc52bb016/1596234122437/CDS+REV14+2020-07-31+DRAFT.pdf

"The original CDS introduced the CubeSat Standard to the world almost two
decades ago. It defined the physical and electrical characteristics for a
1U and 3U size CubeSat and included requirements for interfacing with the
only CubeSat dispenser available at the time, the Poly-Pico Orbital
Deployer (P-POD). Since then the industry has expanded to include more
standard sizes and additional dispensers with more available options.

To accommodate these new advancements, the CDS has been retooled to be more
flexible and inclusive of developments within the industry. Requirements
that were originally written specifically for the P-POD will encompass
requirements for all dispensers currently available. It is also the
intention for the new revision of the CDS to identify the available options
on dispensers that are widely available for use. Currently that list is
limited to dispensers that publish their specifications online, but can be
updated as dispenser companies make that information available to us. The
CDS will also define all U configurations in one document with one set of
requirements for ease of reference."

From kb2ysi at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 00:29:06 2020
From: kb2ysi at gmail.com (Don KB2YSI)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 20:29:06 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] ME to HI for WAS--Possible at present?
In-Reply-To: <CAPvDab3yQQ9hPycR3YB_aPi_Y1o76N9ar0X+eUdBAAAN=ExSgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPvDab3yQQ9hPycR3YB_aPi_Y1o76N9ar0X+eUdBAAAN=ExSgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAJiE8NC2x=WpQ9rOxf4op6Gu6NFP-jBqfnk8EcP_+U4pxRBhA@mail.gmail.com>

Ah yes, the dreaded WAS from the NE. While I have a substantially better
chance of being able to make the QSO to HI, AO-7 and I do not get along. I
am a bit better on RS-44 but have not attempted low angle passes on it.

There is needing the perfect pass, which seemed to be spaced quite a bit
apart, and someone there that is willing and able to work said pass. Even
then, it is a tiny window of mutual footprint.

HEO would make it more possible. GEO might feel like cheating!

On Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 14:54 Wes Baden via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Any ideas about the following? My QTH is in Maine, FN54, 120 feet ASL.  I'm
> closing in on WAS, but the problem is going to be Hawaii.  From my rough
> calculations, I need a SAT that has a 4500+ mile footprint, meaning an
> apogee of 1200+ miles, and even then any operating window will be pretty
> short.  Current MEO satellites do not seem to offer a window quite that
> big, or am I missing something?  In theory, I guess, I could go to Mt.
> Washington, NH (fortunately only 90 miles away) and a KH6 could go up on a
> volcanic peak there, to try to make use of over-the-horizon signal
> bending.  But I'm not sure if even that would work at the present time, and
> in any case I can wait if a better MEO or an HEO bird is in the offing in
> the next few years.  Does anyone know if ME-HI will be possible in the
> future, and if so when?  WAS SAT is on my bucket list.  Of course I envy
> all of you to the west of me, who can contact HI, but on the other hand it
> is nice to be only 3200 or so from London, 3800 miles from Berlin.  We are
> all prisoners of our locations, at least until another HEO satellite is in
> orbit again.  Thanks for feedback.  And by the way, I'm always happy to
> sked with anyone needing FN54, not the rarest grid in ME but a challenge
> for many stations, especially out west or so they tell me.
>
> 73, Wes NA1ME
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From propgrinder at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 02:02:41 2020
From: propgrinder at gmail.com (Bob Hammond)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 19:02:41 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Yaesu G-5500 rotator boom mounting
In-Reply-To: <CAKoB7OqgsTi8kwtZoZOWoLhKYf61R96vVnOQ2hWpT4zBJkuH5Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7OqMu_jm8dYK-ozMzGGe3=_GKWmOai6e=iu+M0VtU8hGvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<A5146188-6189-45BE-99EC-BC5B17669392@comcast.net>
	<CAKoB7OqgsTi8kwtZoZOWoLhKYf61R96vVnOQ2hWpT4zBJkuH5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKoB7Ors7_V=aWYfUFm=jZ1EUDv-3JpGzTQ9XNX-qTNqbbWY8g@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks everyone for the ideas.

In my situation, I use a 1.25" solid fiberglass rod as the cross boom with
a split PVC pipe shim inside the EL rotor.
I used strips of 3M anti-slip tape between the fiberglass rod and the PVC
pipe for added friction where clamped.

This has worked quite well until we had temps near 100 F.  I think the
anti-slip tape adhesive got soft and started slipping.
Part of the problem is that my three antennas are mounted on the end of
their booms so there's a fair amount of torque/moment arm on the cross boom
and the clamping area.

I'll put my antenna counterbalance back on the cross boom opposite the
antennas and that should take care of the issue during hot weather.  I had
removed it thinking the less mass to rotate/elevate would make my rotor
gears last longer.

Bob W7OTJ

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 11:02 AM Ed Krome <e.krome at comcast.net> wrote:

> Just the included clamps have proven adequate for a pair of 12? long
> yagis.
>
> Ed Krome K9EK
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 7, 2020, at 12:35 PM, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > ?How do others attach their fiberglass boom to the elevation rotor on a
> > G-5500?  Just use the boom clamps provided?  Make a sleeve to fit between
> > the smaller fiberglass boom and elevation rotor inside diameter?  Drill a
> > hole and pin it?
> >
> > All ideas appreciated.
> >
> > Bob W7OTJ
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Wed Aug 12 02:47:28 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 21:47:28 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] 70cm LNA
In-Reply-To: <3B6CD9BE-FAC0-43D6-B850-DBEDCB647B0B@pobox.com>
References: <BYAPR01MB4678C8B8BCC3BF05C1093F85DB470@BYAPR01MB4678.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<a902f525-b6fb-f956-6550-819697c13d49@gmail.com>
	<3B6CD9BE-FAC0-43D6-B850-DBEDCB647B0B@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <24F362D3-EE65-4C4E-B0D6-D0EB77A847D4@pobox.com>

On August 9, 2020 4:57:21 PM CDT, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>I've ordered some 433MHz SAW filter (RFMi) from Mouser to install at
>the output of my homebrew LNA. Hopefully this will reduce overload of
>the FT-847. A FCDP+, with it's internal SAW, works very well with that
>antenna and LNA, so I think I'm on the right track.

Success! The SAW filter eliminated the offending cell-tower sources. The noise floor barely moves when the preamp is switched in, while the desired beacon signal increases significantly.

I will be attempting to measure the NF with the Y-factor method. 

The exact filter used was SF2446E 
(Digikey 2410-SF2446E-ND).


--- Zach
N0ZGO

From propgrinder at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 12:10:38 2020
From: propgrinder at gmail.com (Bob Hammond)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 05:10:38 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Yaesu G-5500 rotator boom mounting
In-Reply-To: <CAKoB7Ors7_V=aWYfUFm=jZ1EUDv-3JpGzTQ9XNX-qTNqbbWY8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7OqMu_jm8dYK-ozMzGGe3=_GKWmOai6e=iu+M0VtU8hGvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<A5146188-6189-45BE-99EC-BC5B17669392@comcast.net>
	<CAKoB7OqgsTi8kwtZoZOWoLhKYf61R96vVnOQ2hWpT4zBJkuH5Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKoB7Ors7_V=aWYfUFm=jZ1EUDv-3JpGzTQ9XNX-qTNqbbWY8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKoB7OoZ+DUd_Z4Zh2+mMoqQ+fd2wcvQdaE28UX-Y_5nDMH7Mg@mail.gmail.com>

I can send pics to those who'd like to see how I did things.  They are too
big to post on the BB.

Bob W7OTJ

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 7:02 PM Bob Hammond <propgrinder at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks everyone for the ideas.
>
> In my situation, I use a 1.25" solid fiberglass rod as the cross boom with
> a split PVC pipe shim inside the EL rotor.
> I used strips of 3M anti-slip tape between the fiberglass rod and the PVC
> pipe for added friction where clamped.
>
> This has worked quite well until we had temps near 100 F.  I think the
> anti-slip tape adhesive got soft and started slipping.
> Part of the problem is that my three antennas are mounted on the end of
> their booms so there's a fair amount of torque/moment arm on the cross boom
> and the clamping area.
>
> I'll put my antenna counterbalance back on the cross boom opposite the
> antennas and that should take care of the issue during hot weather.  I had
> removed it thinking the less mass to rotate/elevate would make my rotor
> gears last longer.
>
> Bob W7OTJ
>
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 11:02 AM Ed Krome <e.krome at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Just the included clamps have proven adequate for a pair of 12? long
>> yagis.
>>
>> Ed Krome K9EK
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Aug 7, 2020, at 12:35 PM, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > ?How do others attach their fiberglass boom to the elevation rotor on a
>> > G-5500?  Just use the boom clamps provided?  Make a sleeve to fit
>> between
>> > the smaller fiberglass boom and elevation rotor inside diameter?  Drill
>> a
>> > hole and pin it?
>> >
>> > All ideas appreciated.
>> >
>> > Bob W7OTJ
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>>

From va3mw at portcredit.net  Wed Aug 12 12:20:08 2020
From: va3mw at portcredit.net (Michael Walker)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 08:20:08 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Yaesu G-5500 rotator boom mounting
In-Reply-To: <CAKoB7OoZ+DUd_Z4Zh2+mMoqQ+fd2wcvQdaE28UX-Y_5nDMH7Mg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7OqMu_jm8dYK-ozMzGGe3=_GKWmOai6e=iu+M0VtU8hGvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<A5146188-6189-45BE-99EC-BC5B17669392@comcast.net>
	<CAKoB7OqgsTi8kwtZoZOWoLhKYf61R96vVnOQ2hWpT4zBJkuH5Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKoB7Ors7_V=aWYfUFm=jZ1EUDv-3JpGzTQ9XNX-qTNqbbWY8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKoB7OoZ+DUd_Z4Zh2+mMoqQ+fd2wcvQdaE28UX-Y_5nDMH7Mg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+33ts7FXOFF939saTdvff0SES2uRaW-GehUGZDn=_Mm1jz0_g@mail.gmail.com>

I took some 1" aluminum angle that I got at Home Depot.

I cut a piece about the length of the elevation rotor mount and placed it
in the rotator on top of the fiberglass boom.

My clamps now pull down on top of the boom and help to bite to keep it in
place.  Sorry, I can't get a picture since it is on the roof at the moment,
but if I climb up there, I will grab one.

I would do a sketch and add it to the email, but this is such an
archaic mail tool, it won't accept attachments.

Mike va3mw


On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 8:16 AM Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> I can send pics to those who'd like to see how I did things.  They are too
> big to post on the BB.
>
> Bob W7OTJ
>
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 7:02 PM Bob Hammond <propgrinder at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Thanks everyone for the ideas.
> >
> > In my situation, I use a 1.25" solid fiberglass rod as the cross boom
> with
> > a split PVC pipe shim inside the EL rotor.
> > I used strips of 3M anti-slip tape between the fiberglass rod and the PVC
> > pipe for added friction where clamped.
> >
> > This has worked quite well until we had temps near 100 F.  I think the
> > anti-slip tape adhesive got soft and started slipping.
> > Part of the problem is that my three antennas are mounted on the end of
> > their booms so there's a fair amount of torque/moment arm on the cross
> boom
> > and the clamping area.
> >
> > I'll put my antenna counterbalance back on the cross boom opposite the
> > antennas and that should take care of the issue during hot weather.  I
> had
> > removed it thinking the less mass to rotate/elevate would make my rotor
> > gears last longer.
> >
> > Bob W7OTJ
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 11:02 AM Ed Krome <e.krome at comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Just the included clamps have proven adequate for a pair of 12? long
> >> yagis.
> >>
> >> Ed Krome K9EK
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> > On Aug 7, 2020, at 12:35 PM, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB <
> >> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > ?How do others attach their fiberglass boom to the elevation rotor on
> a
> >> > G-5500?  Just use the boom clamps provided?  Make a sleeve to fit
> >> between
> >> > the smaller fiberglass boom and elevation rotor inside diameter?
> Drill
> >> a
> >> > hole and pin it?
> >> >
> >> > All ideas appreciated.
> >> >
> >> > Bob W7OTJ
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions expressed
> >> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> >> of AMSAT-NA.
> >> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >> program!
> >> > Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>
> >>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Wed Aug 12 18:43:03 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 13:43:03 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] 70cm LNA
In-Reply-To: <24F362D3-EE65-4C4E-B0D6-D0EB77A847D4@pobox.com>
References: <BYAPR01MB4678C8B8BCC3BF05C1093F85DB470@BYAPR01MB4678.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<a902f525-b6fb-f956-6550-819697c13d49@gmail.com>
	<3B6CD9BE-FAC0-43D6-B850-DBEDCB647B0B@pobox.com>
	<24F362D3-EE65-4C4E-B0D6-D0EB77A847D4@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <eec23928-5fd4-260f-6427-982e243ad9cd@pobox.com>

On 08/11/20 21:47, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Success! The SAW filter eliminated the offending cell-tower sources.
> The noise floor barely moves when the preamp is switched in, while
> the desired beacon signal increases significantly.
The 3-D printed passive Lindenblad + homebrew LNA, driving 75' of 
look-alike-LMR400 is working well for receiving RS-44 now. The LMR400 is 
optional, as there is plenty of gain from the MAX2640 LNA, but was used 
to keep losses down when transmitting on this antenna.

I can reliably copy the RS-44 beacon about 8 degrees above the horizon, 
and SSB is quite readable at about 20 degrees.

A horizon-to-horizon pass recording is located here:

http://www.n0zgo.net/oscar/rs44_12082020_1802.mp3

(The good stuff starts at about 7 minutes into the recording. I chase 
the beacon at the end in CW mode, and it disappears at 5 degrees elevation.)

A FT-847 was used for reception, but a cheap SDR dongle would probably 
work just as well for a lost-cost entry into 70cm downlink capability 
(as required for the GOLF satellites).

Now to wire it up for automatic Doppler correction and we're in business.

73,

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From kevin at phunc.com  Wed Aug 12 18:54:00 2020
From: kevin at phunc.com (Kevin Elliott)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 11:54:00 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] 70cm LNA
In-Reply-To: <eec23928-5fd4-260f-6427-982e243ad9cd@pobox.com>
References: <eec23928-5fd4-260f-6427-982e243ad9cd@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <C8A0FAAC-6BD7-480D-B397-A555455C5721@phunc.com>

Zach,

Are there any complete built filters to inline by chance from any retailer?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 12, 2020, at 11:45 AM, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?On 08/11/20 21:47, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>> Success! The SAW filter eliminated the offending cell-tower sources.
>> The noise floor barely moves when the preamp is switched in, while
>> the desired beacon signal increases significantly.
> The 3-D printed passive Lindenblad + homebrew LNA, driving 75' of look-alike-LMR400 is working well for receiving RS-44 now. The LMR400 is optional, as there is plenty of gain from the MAX2640 LNA, but was used to keep losses down when transmitting on this antenna.
> 
> I can reliably copy the RS-44 beacon about 8 degrees above the horizon, and SSB is quite readable at about 20 degrees.
> 
> A horizon-to-horizon pass recording is located here:
> 
> http://www.n0zgo.net/oscar/rs44_12082020_1802.mp3
> 
> (The good stuff starts at about 7 minutes into the recording. I chase the beacon at the end in CW mode, and it disappears at 5 degrees elevation.)
> 
> A FT-847 was used for reception, but a cheap SDR dongle would probably work just as well for a lost-cost entry into 70cm downlink capability (as required for the GOLF satellites).
> 
> Now to wire it up for automatic Doppler correction and we're in business.
> 
> 73,
> 
> --- Zach
> N0ZGO
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Wed Aug 12 19:01:59 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 14:01:59 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] 70cm LNA
In-Reply-To: <C8A0FAAC-6BD7-480D-B397-A555455C5721@phunc.com>
References: <eec23928-5fd4-260f-6427-982e243ad9cd@pobox.com>
	<C8A0FAAC-6BD7-480D-B397-A555455C5721@phunc.com>
Message-ID: <58ad7d75-1175-bf9d-d8d1-75a4bb985aad@pobox.com>

On 08/12/20 13:54, Kevin Elliott wrote:
> Are there any complete built filters to inline by chance from any retailer?

Hello Kevin,

I do not know of anyone offering this filter, and it isn't something 
you'd want to transmit through. I don't even know how much power it 
would survive before releasing the magic smoke (probably < 1W).

The SAW filter is on the output of the LNA chip, so it is switched out 
during TX. You could take your LNA apart and tack this in to achieve the 
same effect. You'd laugh at the component-on-it's-side soldering job 
with 30ga wire-wrap wire, but it works!

I plan to lay out a board and release it to the community with build 
instructions. However, I have another project or two in front of that 
before I have free time.

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 12 19:07:23 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 12:07:23 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] 70cm LNA
In-Reply-To: <eec23928-5fd4-260f-6427-982e243ad9cd@pobox.com>
References: <BYAPR01MB4678C8B8BCC3BF05C1093F85DB470@BYAPR01MB4678.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<a902f525-b6fb-f956-6550-819697c13d49@gmail.com>
	<3B6CD9BE-FAC0-43D6-B850-DBEDCB647B0B@pobox.com>
	<24F362D3-EE65-4C4E-B0D6-D0EB77A847D4@pobox.com>
	<eec23928-5fd4-260f-6427-982e243ad9cd@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <d9f7481f-e79b-4658-a702-49d21efab3d2@yahoo.com>

Very nice Zach.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Aug 12, 2020, 11:45, at 11:45, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>On 08/11/20 21:47, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>> Success! The SAW filter eliminated the offending cell-tower sources.
>> The noise floor barely moves when the preamp is switched in, while
>> the desired beacon signal increases significantly.
>The 3-D printed passive Lindenblad + homebrew LNA, driving 75' of 
>look-alike-LMR400 is working well for receiving RS-44 now. The LMR400
>is 
>optional, as there is plenty of gain from the MAX2640 LNA, but was used
>
>to keep losses down when transmitting on this antenna.
>
>I can reliably copy the RS-44 beacon about 8 degrees above the horizon,
>
>and SSB is quite readable at about 20 degrees.
>
>A horizon-to-horizon pass recording is located here:
>
>http://www.n0zgo.net/oscar/rs44_12082020_1802.mp3
>
>(The good stuff starts at about 7 minutes into the recording. I chase 
>the beacon at the end in CW mode, and it disappears at 5 degrees
>elevation.)
>
>A FT-847 was used for reception, but a cheap SDR dongle would probably 
>work just as well for a lost-cost entry into 70cm downlink capability 
>(as required for the GOLF satellites).
>
>Now to wire it up for automatic Doppler correction and we're in
>business.
>
>73,
>
>--- Zach
>N0ZGO
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From kevin at phunc.com  Wed Aug 12 19:26:45 2020
From: kevin at phunc.com (Kevin Elliott)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 12:26:45 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] 70cm LNA
In-Reply-To: <d9f7481f-e79b-4658-a702-49d21efab3d2@yahoo.com>
References: <d9f7481f-e79b-4658-a702-49d21efab3d2@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <F502FBFA-E3F3-4549-8363-1B7F0E907FB5@phunc.com>

Not wanting to use this with a transceiver, mostly just for my 70cm QFH with SDR for satnogs. Aware of any other 70cm and 2m LNAs that perform well for receive-only?

> On Aug 12, 2020, at 12:11 PM, W3AB/GEO via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?Very nice Zach.
> 
> ?___
> Sent from my two way wrist watch
> 73 de W3AB/GEO?
> 
>> On Aug 12, 2020, 11:45, at 11:45, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>> On 08/11/20 21:47, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>>> Success! The SAW filter eliminated the offending cell-tower sources.
>>> The noise floor barely moves when the preamp is switched in, while
>>> the desired beacon signal increases significantly.
>> The 3-D printed passive Lindenblad + homebrew LNA, driving 75' of 
>> look-alike-LMR400 is working well for receiving RS-44 now. The LMR400
>> is 
>> optional, as there is plenty of gain from the MAX2640 LNA, but was used
>> 
>> to keep losses down when transmitting on this antenna.
>> 
>> I can reliably copy the RS-44 beacon about 8 degrees above the horizon,
>> 
>> and SSB is quite readable at about 20 degrees.
>> 
>> A horizon-to-horizon pass recording is located here:
>> 
>> http://www.n0zgo.net/oscar/rs44_12082020_1802.mp3
>> 
>> (The good stuff starts at about 7 minutes into the recording. I chase 
>> the beacon at the end in CW mode, and it disappears at 5 degrees
>> elevation.)
>> 
>> A FT-847 was used for reception, but a cheap SDR dongle would probably 
>> work just as well for a lost-cost entry into 70cm downlink capability 
>> (as required for the GOLF satellites).
>> 
>> Now to wire it up for automatic Doppler correction and we're in
>> business.
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>> --- Zach
>> N0ZGO
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From pconver at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 19:30:05 2020
From: pconver at gmail.com (Pedro Converso)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 16:30:05 -0300
Subject: [amsat-bb] 70cm LNA
In-Reply-To: <eec23928-5fd4-260f-6427-982e243ad9cd@pobox.com>
References: <BYAPR01MB4678C8B8BCC3BF05C1093F85DB470@BYAPR01MB4678.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<a902f525-b6fb-f956-6550-819697c13d49@gmail.com>
	<3B6CD9BE-FAC0-43D6-B850-DBEDCB647B0B@pobox.com>
	<24F362D3-EE65-4C4E-B0D6-D0EB77A847D4@pobox.com>
	<eec23928-5fd4-260f-6427-982e243ad9cd@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <CANTZqKnN4fk+pPNgbVw93zSCvN25z+F8UW9CBeKzXf8dO0NmmQ@mail.gmail.com>

Nice recording and information, TKS ! for sharing.

As an alternative, http://amsat.org.ar/pass.exe concurrent with HDSDR
could automatic handle & control Doppler on any generic SDR for RS-44
or any other sat.

73, lu7abf, Pedro

,On 8/12/20, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> On 08/11/20 21:47, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>> Success! The SAW filter eliminated the offending cell-tower sources.
>> The noise floor barely moves when the preamp is switched in, while
>> the desired beacon signal increases significantly.
> The 3-D printed passive Lindenblad + homebrew LNA, driving 75' of
> look-alike-LMR400 is working well for receiving RS-44 now. The LMR400 is
> optional, as there is plenty of gain from the MAX2640 LNA, but was used
> to keep losses down when transmitting on this antenna.
>
> I can reliably copy the RS-44 beacon about 8 degrees above the horizon,
> and SSB is quite readable at about 20 degrees.
>
> A horizon-to-horizon pass recording is located here:
>
> http://www.n0zgo.net/oscar/rs44_12082020_1802.mp3
>
> (The good stuff starts at about 7 minutes into the recording. I chase
> the beacon at the end in CW mode, and it disappears at 5 degrees
> elevation.)
>
> A FT-847 was used for reception, but a cheap SDR dongle would probably
> work just as well for a lost-cost entry into 70cm downlink capability
> (as required for the GOLF satellites).
>
> Now to wire it up for automatic Doppler correction and we're in business.
>
> 73,
>
> --- Zach
> N0ZGO
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Wed Aug 12 19:36:35 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 14:36:35 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] 70cm LNA
In-Reply-To: <F502FBFA-E3F3-4549-8363-1B7F0E907FB5@phunc.com>
References: <d9f7481f-e79b-4658-a702-49d21efab3d2@yahoo.com>
	<F502FBFA-E3F3-4549-8363-1B7F0E907FB5@phunc.com>
Message-ID: <d3958c63-ca1b-aa86-c5d5-83ef00c620c4@pobox.com>

On 08/12/20 14:26, Kevin Elliott wrote:
> Not wanting to use this with a transceiver, mostly just for my 70cm QFH with SDR for satnogs. Aware of any other 70cm and 2m LNAs that perform well for receive-only?

Hello Kevin,

I've heard good things about LNA4ALL (https://lna4all.blogspot.com/), 
which has a high IIP3 and low NF.

The +33dBm IIP3 would help with overload issues on the LNA itself, but 
the high gain (+23dB) would then overload your SDR/rig with those, now 
amplified, high-power out-of-band signals.

If you added an appropriate filter, such as the one I used, to the 
output, then you'd have a good solution.

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From n8hm at arrl.net  Wed Aug 12 19:39:08 2020
From: n8hm at arrl.net (Paul Stoetzer)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 15:39:08 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] 70cm LNA
In-Reply-To: <d3958c63-ca1b-aa86-c5d5-83ef00c620c4@pobox.com>
References: <d9f7481f-e79b-4658-a702-49d21efab3d2@yahoo.com>
	<F502FBFA-E3F3-4549-8363-1B7F0E907FB5@phunc.com>
	<d3958c63-ca1b-aa86-c5d5-83ef00c620c4@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <CABzOSOr+7wurPqyHF8-JFvTDGmurOW-Zx9OXqWOCNfbxM41wKA@mail.gmail.com>

It looks like they may have re-designed it since I got mine about 7 years
ago, but my 70cm receive only preamp is a High Sierra Microwave LNAA432,
which has a 2 pole SAW filter on the output. It works very well here in my
urban environment (Washington, DC).

http://www.hsmicrowave.com/Amateur%20LNA.html

73,

Paul, N8HM

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 3:37 PM Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> On 08/12/20 14:26, Kevin Elliott wrote:
> > Not wanting to use this with a transceiver, mostly just for my 70cm QFH
> with SDR for satnogs. Aware of any other 70cm and 2m LNAs that perform well
> for receive-only?
>
> Hello Kevin,
>
> I've heard good things about LNA4ALL (https://lna4all.blogspot.com/),
> which has a high IIP3 and low NF.
>
> The +33dBm IIP3 would help with overload issues on the LNA itself, but
> the high gain (+23dB) would then overload your SDR/rig with those, now
> amplified, high-power out-of-band signals.
>
> If you added an appropriate filter, such as the one I used, to the
> output, then you'd have a good solution.
>
> --- Zach
> N0ZGO
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From kevin at phunc.com  Wed Aug 12 19:39:46 2020
From: kevin at phunc.com (Kevin Elliott)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 12:39:46 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] 70cm LNA
In-Reply-To: <d3958c63-ca1b-aa86-c5d5-83ef00c620c4@pobox.com>
References: <d3958c63-ca1b-aa86-c5d5-83ef00c620c4@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <490877E5-9C9F-42DC-9AEB-4D2090460C85@phunc.com>

Yes now just to find filters for 2m/70cm out of the box ready :) Thanks!

> On Aug 12, 2020, at 12:38 PM, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?On 08/12/20 14:26, Kevin Elliott wrote:
>> Not wanting to use this with a transceiver, mostly just for my 70cm QFH with SDR for satnogs. Aware of any other 70cm and 2m LNAs that perform well for receive-only?
> 
> Hello Kevin,
> 
> I've heard good things about LNA4ALL (https://lna4all.blogspot.com/), which has a high IIP3 and low NF.
> 
> The +33dBm IIP3 would help with overload issues on the LNA itself, but the high gain (+23dB) would then overload your SDR/rig with those, now amplified, high-power out-of-band signals.
> 
> If you added an appropriate filter, such as the one I used, to the output, then you'd have a good solution.
> 
> --- Zach
> N0ZGO
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From jfitzgerald at alum.wpi.edu  Wed Aug 12 21:07:20 2020
From: jfitzgerald at alum.wpi.edu (Joseph B. Fitzgerald)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 21:07:20 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Cubesat Design Specification update call for review
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOsgDFHKaRBvMh+qo3m+c1B8NRYR+wpd12R_WoiDuseB7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK2MWOsgDFHKaRBvMh+qo3m+c1B8NRYR+wpd12R_WoiDuseB7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DM5PR22MB08252AA4104D1D4E55A5DDFB87420@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Looks like real time clocks are allowed to be running while you are in the deployer.  I think this is brand new (they used to be disallowed, and there is apparently a typo in the conditional requirements specification numbers).  Seems to me like the allowable current limit is about 3 or 4 orders of magnitude more than necessary.   I have seen data sheets for RTC's that need only a few hundred nA to keep time.  Am I missing something?

de KM1P Joe
 

From zleffke at vt.edu  Wed Aug 12 21:27:06 2020
From: zleffke at vt.edu (Leffke, Zachary)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 21:27:06 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] 70cm LNA
In-Reply-To: <d3958c63-ca1b-aa86-c5d5-83ef00c620c4@pobox.com>
References: <d9f7481f-e79b-4658-a702-49d21efab3d2@yahoo.com>
	<F502FBFA-E3F3-4549-8363-1B7F0E907FB5@phunc.com>
	<d3958c63-ca1b-aa86-c5d5-83ef00c620c4@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR05MB7037EC90318385A9610A3849DF420@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

In the same spirit of 'releasing to the community' that Zach mentioned, here's a variation on the design for folks that might be interested:  https://github.com/zleffke/eagle_pga103

This is an EagleCAD design for a PGA-103 based LNA, including the SAW filter on the *input* (not the output like in Zach's design).  I don't have a good write-up so you'll have to download the repo and open the schematic/board in Eagle to find the specific parts and values I used.  I think I used a different part then the one Zach mentioned for the SAW filter (more for 433 MHz), but I believe the footprint matches the one he linked to earlier (Thank you!  I've been looking for something better suited for the Ham bands....if you can find a similar part for VHF I'd be very interested in it as well!).  This does include a 'PTT feature' but that is not a bypass feature, it is to disable the 5V regulator on the board (As part of a larger system of external bypass relays and such).  It's worth mentioning that if you install a little jumper on the footprint for the SAW filter instead of the filter itself, the part works well as a broadband preamp for VHF/UHF as well...but you obviously lose the filtering features.  I didn't take any meticulous bench measurements on my final units that I built, so am going strictly off the PGA-103 'datasheet values' for my assumptions on performance (< 0.5dB NF, Gain >20 dB)......basically it works 'well enough' for the on air stuff I used it for.  I'll also note that the datasheet values for the PGA-103 obviously don't account for having the filter on the input....which will lower the Gain numbers and increase the noise figure if the filter is used.

I should also mention that the circuit I used was heavily influenced by the writings of a number of hams about the PGA-103, the ones I can remember off the top of my head are Kent Britain, WA5VJB and Sam Jewell, G4DDK (http://www.g4ddk.com/PGA103+2.pdf), Paul Wade, W1GHZ (http://www.w1ghz.org/small_proj/Simple_Cheap_MMIC_Preamps.pdf) , as well as Jim Klitzing, W6PQL (https://www.w6pql.com/LNAs%20(preamps)%20and%20MMICs.htm).  I basically read all their documents and the bias in my design is similar, just tweaked the layout and used a different 5V vreg (which had some noise suppression features I liked for the ripple suppression on the 5V output).  Kent also has little general use MMIC boards available on his site wa5vjb.com that are handy for playing around with the PGA-103s and other MMICs (though they don't have the SAW filter footprints, just input/output/and bias)

One warning about the above project.....I did make the PCB to match a weird enclosure that I had on hand at the time, which used funky SMA connectors, so it has a bit of a 'non-standard' edge launch SMA configuration.  That said the ground planes are all there and some of the bottom solder mask already removed.....so a little sand paper or razor on the top solder mask and an edge launch connector should work.  Alternatively a coax pigtail should work with the board 'as is'.  I attempted to share this Osh Park project if someone just wants to order the boards as is directly from Osh Park ($5.15 gets you three boards):  https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/vIgjua33, but again you'll need to download the project and read the schematic for the parts and values I used (all available on digikey/mouser....including the PGA-103 in small quantities now that Mouser is a vendor for them).  If someone is really itching for it I could probably be convinced to make a PDF of the schematic and push it to the repo.

Finally, I'll mention that I've started a new version of this project in KiCAD:  https://github.com/zleffke/kicad_pga103.  That is currently an empty repo, but I'm close to pushing the Rev- design.  The first design I'll be droppingin that repo will include onboard coax relays for TX/RX sequencing and the bypass features (I think it will be good up to about 50W through power).  Like Zach mentioned, I have a few other projects 'in the queue' at the moment but I hope to circle back to this one in the near-ish future to get it done and out there for folks.  I also plan to drop a receive only version of the design that includes the high pass and low pass filters that are part of the duplexer design in the Arrow antenna (think arrow antenna....to PGA-103 based preamp...to duplexer with the filtering for VHF/UHF work...again receive only...).  I also plan to add a generic and 'easier to use' version of the original design linked to in the first sentence above......but all of that is in the (hopefully near?) future.


Good stuff!  Let's keep building preamps!
-Zach, KJ4QLP
-- 
Research Associate
Aerospace & Ocean Systems Lab
Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
Work Phone: 540-231-4174
Cell Phone: 540-808-6305

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2020 3:37 PM
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] 70cm LNA

On 08/12/20 14:26, Kevin Elliott wrote:
> Not wanting to use this with a transceiver, mostly just for my 70cm QFH with SDR for satnogs. Aware of any other 70cm and 2m LNAs that perform well for receive-only?

Hello Kevin,

I've heard good things about LNA4ALL (https://lna4all.blogspot.com/), 
which has a high IIP3 and low NF.

The +33dBm IIP3 would help with overload issues on the LNA itself, but 
the high gain (+23dB) would then overload your SDR/rig with those, now 
amplified, high-power out-of-band signals.

If you added an appropriate filter, such as the one I used, to the 
output, then you'd have a good solution.

--- Zach
N0ZGO
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From zleffke at vt.edu  Wed Aug 12 21:36:45 2020
From: zleffke at vt.edu (Leffke, Zachary)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 21:36:45 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] 70cm LNA
In-Reply-To: <490877E5-9C9F-42DC-9AEB-4D2090460C85@phunc.com>
References: <d3958c63-ca1b-aa86-c5d5-83ef00c620c4@pobox.com>
	<490877E5-9C9F-42DC-9AEB-4D2090460C85@phunc.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR05MB7037D1596D6D0B9A0E160B05DF420@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Minicircuits sells 'connectorized' filters (As opposed to just the SMT versions of things).  Depending on the requirements for the filtering they might meet your needs, but are not rated for high TX power.  As an example: their SBP-140 roughly comes in around 130-150 MHz for the 3dB passband, with a minimum insertion loss at 1.83 dB (at 140 MHz).  It is rated for .5W power, and costs around $50.  See (https://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/SBP-140+.pdf) for more details.  They also have UHF variants.  They also have LPF and HPF variations depending on what you need.  My experience with these is that they are decent, but clearly not quite optimized for the Amateur Radio bands.....so sometimes you have to hunt around a bit to find something acceptable.

-Zach, KJ4QLP
-- 
Research Associate
Aerospace & Ocean Systems Lab
Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
Work Phone: 540-231-4174
Cell Phone: 540-808-6305


-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Kevin Elliott via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2020 3:40 PM
To: Zach Metzinger <zmetzing at pobox.com>
Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] 70cm LNA

Yes now just to find filters for 2m/70cm out of the box ready :) Thanks!

> On Aug 12, 2020, at 12:38 PM, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?On 08/12/20 14:26, Kevin Elliott wrote:
>> Not wanting to use this with a transceiver, mostly just for my 70cm QFH with SDR for satnogs. Aware of any other 70cm and 2m LNAs that perform well for receive-only?
> 
> Hello Kevin,
> 
> I've heard good things about LNA4ALL (https://lna4all.blogspot.com/), which has a high IIP3 and low NF.
> 
> The +33dBm IIP3 would help with overload issues on the LNA itself, but the high gain (+23dB) would then overload your SDR/rig with those, now amplified, high-power out-of-band signals.
> 
> If you added an appropriate filter, such as the one I used, to the output, then you'd have a good solution.
> 
> --- Zach
> N0ZGO
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From clintbradford at mac.com  Wed Aug 12 22:13:09 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 15:13:09 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] =?utf-8?q?Tom=E2=80=99s_Show_Last_Sunday?=
Message-ID: <475FA027-1178-40E2-ACC1-8767BF9A556C@mac.com>

Great job, Tom, at the online QSO Extravagana!

Videos from the event are posted for another week or so ? If you missed  
Tiom LIVE, you can watch the recording.

www.qsotodayhamexpo.com


Clint K6LCS
work-sat.com


Sent from my iPhone

From vlfiscus at mcn.net  Wed Aug 12 23:30:45 2020
From: vlfiscus at mcn.net (Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 17:30:45 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] FT-736 update.
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20200812172139.02190eb0@pop.earthlink.net>

Hi All,

Still working on the 736.  When the PS went, it blew
all three fuses.  There is a 4 amp external fuse, but
there are two internal fuses that were also blown.  I
can't find the internal fuses on any of the schmaticz.

Does any know the current rating of the internal fuses?

The rig is okay, it was the power supply that blew the
fuses.

Thanks again
KB7ADL


From w1pa at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 13 00:00:46 2020
From: w1pa at hotmail.com (Bill Acito)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 00:00:46 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb]  FT-736 update.
Message-ID: <MWHPR03MB337402073BF80FF100FA65BC98420@MWHPR03MB3374.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>

How do you know there are additional fuses besides the one on the case?  I took a look, and as you said, nothing in the schematics or in a general google search.

b


From mikflathead at aol.com  Thu Aug 13 12:29:21 2020
From: mikflathead at aol.com (mikflathead at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 12:29:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] fuses
References: <1756619543.1125024.1597321761529.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1756619543.1125024.1597321761529@mail.yahoo.com>

There are 2 fuses behind the ac power connector. They are 5 amp 250 volt. They are a bout 3/16 diameter and 3/4 inch long. I do not see them on a schematic. Mike

From aj9n at aol.com  Thu Aug 13 15:44:47 2020
From: aj9n at aol.com (aj9n at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 15:44:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-13 15:30
	UTC
References: <875775356.1125839.1597333487939.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <875775356.1125839.1597333487939@mail.yahoo.com>


Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-13 15:30 UTC

?

Quick list of scheduled contacts and events:

?

Kopernik Observatory & Science Center, Vestal, NY, direct via K2ZRO 

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be NA1SS

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR 

Contact is go for: Fri 2020-08-21 18:23:40 UTC 29 deg 

Watch for live stream starting about 20 to 30 minutes ahead of AOS at: https://youtu.be/1Pwcc2rilz0??(***)

?

########################################################################################################################################

A multi-point telebridge contact means that each student will be on the telebridge from their own home.

*************************************************

?

ARISS is very aware of the impact that COVID-19 is having on schools and the public in general.? As such, we may have last minute cancellations or postponements of school contacts.? As always, I will try to provide everyone with near-real-time updates.? 

?

The following schools have now been postponed or cancelled due to COVID-19:? 

?

Postponed:

No new schools

?

Cancelled:

No new schools

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

?

Watch for future COVID-19 related announcements here also.

?

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

?

Note, all times are approximate. ?It is recommended that you do your own 

orbital prediction?or start listening about 10 minutes before the listed 

time. 

All dates and times listed follow International Standard ISO 8601 date and 

time format YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS

?

The complete schedule page has been updated as of?2020-08-13 15:30 UTC. (***)

Here you will find a listing of all scheduled?school contacts, and 

questions, other ISS related websites, IRLP and Echolink websites, and 

instructions for any contact that may be streamed live.

?

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf 

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.txt 

?

?

The successful school list has been updated as of 2020-08-11 16:30 UTC.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/Successful_ARISS_schools.rtf 

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

?

Message to US Educators

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States) 

?

The Proposal Window of February 1, 2020 to March 31, 2020 has now closed.

?

For future proposal information and more details such as expectations, proposal guidelines and proposal form, and dates and times of Information Webinars, go to www.ariss.org.

?

Please direct any questions to?ariss.us.education at gmail.com.

?

About ARISS:

?

Amateur Radio on the International Space Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radio societies and the space agencies that support the International Space Station (ISS).? In the United States, sponsors are the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio Relay League (ARRL), the ISS National Lab and National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEAM) topics by organizing scheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS and students in classrooms or public forms. Before and during these radio contacts, students, educators, parents, and communities learn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. For more information, see www.ariss.org.

?

********************************************************************************

ARISS Contact Applications (Europe, Africa and the Middle East)

?

Schools and Youth organizations in Europe, Africa and the Middle East interested in setting up an ARISS radio contact with an astronaut on board the International Space Station are invited to submit an application from September to October and from February to April.

Please refer to details and the application form at www.ariss-eu.org/school-contacts.? Applications should be addressed by email to:? school.selection.manager at ariss-eu.org

?

ARISS Contact Applications (Canada, Central and South America, Asia and Australia and Russia)

?

Organizations outside the United States can apply for an ARISS contact by filling out an application.? Please direct questions to the appropriate regional representative listed below. If your country is not specifically listed, send your questions to the nearest ARISS Region listed. If you are unsure which address to use, please send your question to the ARISS-Canada representative; they will forward your question to the appropriate coordinator.

?

For the application, go to:? https://www.ariss.org/ariss-application.html.

ARISS-Canada and the Americas, except USA: Steve McFarlane, VE3TBD email to: ve3tbd at gmail.com

ARISS-Japan, Asia, Pacific and Australia: Satoshi Yasuda, 7M3TJZ email to: ariss at iaru-r3.org, Japan Amateur Radio League (JARL) https://www.jarl.org/

ARISS-Russia: Soyuz Radioljubitelei Rossii (SRR) https://srr.ru/

?

?

******************************************************************************

ARISS is always glad to receive listener reports for the above contacts.? ARISS thanks everyone in advance for their assistance.? Feel free to send your reports to aj9n at amsat.org or aj9n at aol.com.

?

Listen for the ISS on the downlink of 145.8? MHz.

?

*******************************************************************************

?

All ARISS contacts are made via the Kenwood radio unless otherwise noted.

?

*******************************************************************************


Several of you have sent me emails asking about the RAC ARISS website and 
not being able to get in. ?That has now been changed to https://www.ariss.org/

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

****************************************************************************

Looking for something new to do?? How about receiving DATV from the ISS?? Please note that the HamTV system has been brought back to earth for troubleshooting.? Please monitor ARISS-EU or ARISS-ON for the very latest news on the troubleshooting efforts.? 

?

If interested, then please go to the ARISS-EU website for complete details.? Look for the buttons indicating Ham Video.???????????? 

?

http://www.ariss-eu.org/

?

If you need some assistance, ARISS mentor Kerry N6IZW, might be able to provide some insight.? Contact Kerry at kbanke at sbcglobal.net

?

?

The HamTV webpage:? https://www.amsat-on.be/hamtv-summary/

?

?

****************************************************************************
ARISS congratulations the following mentors who have now mentored over 100 schools: 

?

Francesco IK?WGF with 140

Satoshi 7M3TJZ with 138 

Sergey RV3DR with 135 

Gaston ON4WF with 123

?

****************************************************************************

The webpages listed below were all reviewed for accuracy. Out of date 

webpages were removed, and new ones have been added.? If there are additional 

ARISS websites I need to know about, please let me know.

?

?

?

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school events is 1394. 

Each school counts as 1 event.?????????????????????????????????? 

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school contacts is 1327. 

Each contact may have multiple schools sharing the same time slot.

Total number of ARISS supported terrestrial contacts is 48. 

?

A complete year by year breakdown of the contacts may be found in the 

file.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf

?

Please feel free to contact me if more detailed statistics are needed.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



The following US states and entities have never had an ARISS contact:
South Dakota, Wyoming, American?Samoa, Guam, Northern Marianas Islands, and the Virgin Islands.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

?

QSL information may be found at:

https://www.ariss.org/qsl-cards.html

?

ISS callsigns: DP?ISS, IR?ISS, NA1SS, OR4ISS, RS?ISS

?

****************************************************************************



Frequency chart for packet, voice, and crossband repeater modes showing 

Doppler correction as of 2005-07-29 04:00 UTC

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/ISS_frequencies_and_Doppler_correction.rtf



Check out the Zoho reports of the ARISS contacts

?

https://reports.zoho.com/ZDBDataSheetView.cc?DBID=412218000000020415

****************************************************************************

?

Exp. 62 now on orbit 

Chris Cassidy KF5KDR

Anatoli Ivanishin

Ivan Vagner

****************************************************************************

73,

Charlie?Sufana AJ9N
One of the ARISS operation team mentors

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?



From kd2akp at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 16:15:06 2020
From: kd2akp at gmail.com (Nestor Punales)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 09:15:06 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] LOTW
Message-ID: <CAAqiCg4p_L+RT7Wj7ibgLg7BF_AtPmtPSt1kmANP=B96PNZbGA@mail.gmail.com>

*IF everyone that uses this service collaborates with any amount possible
it will go longways on supporting this very useful service.*

*Nestor N6CKC DM12   *


Since 2003, Logbook of The World has provided amateur radio operators with
a quick, simple way to claim and verify contacts. This verification
formerly required exchange of paper QSL cards and submission of a paper
application to ARRL ? a slow, environmentally unfriendly, and somewhat
expensive process.  Using LoTW today, some digital contacts get
confirmed *within
minutes *of when they conclude.

Because ARRL wants there to be no barriers to stations uploading their
QSOs, LoTW is available to any amateur radio operator at no cost to the
user.  However, there are costs incurred by ARRL for Logbook operations run
by ARRL staff members including costs for programmers, equipment, web
access, and user help and support.

*The future of LoTW!*

ARRL Headquarters staff works with a permanent committee to oversee,
maintain, and improve LoTW.  Some notable achievements and goals that have
resulted from this work include:

   - Continuous reviewing and updating of Logbook processes to facilitate
   ease of use
   - Adding new ARRL awards as well as awards from other organizations
   - Enhancing DX registration through supporting email methods
   - Adding support for multiple locations within a single upload, which
   supports the rover and mobile communities
   - Future growth including a redesign of Logbook's web presence.*day,
   LoTW is more important than ever!*


   - The worldwide COVID-19 pandemic has significantly slowed international
   mail.
   - In some countries, the mail has been embargoed.
   - Many national ham radio societies have discontinued their QSL bureaus
   and it's unlikely that they will reappear.

Your donation to Logbook of The World will support maintenance of the
current database and expansion of the system in the future.

Visit the  <https://www.arrl.org/arrl-donation-form>*ARRL Donation Page
<https://www.arrl.org/arrl-donation-form> *to support Logbook of The World
today!

From aj9n at aol.com  Fri Aug 14 01:52:22 2020
From: aj9n at aol.com (aj9n at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 01:52:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-14 02:00
	UTC
References: <518975182.1352220.1597369942459.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <518975182.1352220.1597369942459@mail.yahoo.com>


Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-14 02:00 UTC

?

Quick list of scheduled contacts and events:

?

Kopernik Observatory & Science Center, Vestal, NY, direct via K2ZRO 

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be NA1SS

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR 

Contact is go for: Thu 2020-08-20 17:34:21 UTC 59 deg (***)

Watch for live stream starting about 20 to 30 minutes ahead of AOS at: https://youtu.be/1Pwcc2rilz0??

?

########################################################################################################################################

A multi-point telebridge contact means that each student will be on the telebridge from their own home.

*************************************************

?

ARISS is very aware of the impact that COVID-19 is having on schools and the public in general.? As such, we may have last minute cancellations or postponements of school contacts.? As always, I will try to provide everyone with near-real-time updates.? 

?

The following schools have now been postponed or cancelled due to COVID-19:? 

?

Postponed:

No new schools

?

Cancelled:

No new schools

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

?

Watch for future COVID-19 related announcements here also.

?

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

?

Note, all times are approximate. ?It is recommended that you do your own 

orbital prediction?or start listening about 10 minutes before the listed 

time. 

All dates and times listed follow International Standard ISO 8601 date and 

time format YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS

?

The complete schedule page has been updated as of?2020-08-14 02:00 UTC. (***)

Here you will find a listing of all scheduled?school contacts, and 

questions, other ISS related websites, IRLP and Echolink websites, and 

instructions for any contact that may be streamed live.

?

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf 

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.txt 

?

?

The successful school list has been updated as of 2020-08-11 16:30 UTC.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/Successful_ARISS_schools.rtf 

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

?

Message to US Educators

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States) 

?

The Proposal Window of February 1, 2020 to March 31, 2020 has now closed.

?

For future proposal information and more details such as expectations, proposal guidelines and proposal form, and dates and times of Information Webinars, go to www.ariss.org.

?

Please direct any questions to?ariss.us.education at gmail.com.

?

About ARISS:

?

Amateur Radio on the International Space Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radio societies and the space agencies that support the International Space Station (ISS).? In the United States, sponsors are the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio Relay League (ARRL), the ISS National Lab and National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEAM) topics by organizing scheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS and students in classrooms or public forms. Before and during these radio contacts, students, educators, parents, and communities learn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. For more information, see www.ariss.org.

?

********************************************************************************

ARISS Contact Applications (Europe, Africa and the Middle East)

?

Schools and Youth organizations in Europe, Africa and the Middle East interested in setting up an ARISS radio contact with an astronaut on board the International Space Station are invited to submit an application from September to October and from February to April.

Please refer to details and the application form at www.ariss-eu.org/school-contacts.? Applications should be addressed by email to:? school.selection.manager at ariss-eu.org

?

ARISS Contact Applications (Canada, Central and South America, Asia and Australia and Russia)

?

Organizations outside the United States can apply for an ARISS contact by filling out an application.? Please direct questions to the appropriate regional representative listed below. If your country is not specifically listed, send your questions to the nearest ARISS Region listed. If you are unsure which address to use, please send your question to the ARISS-Canada representative; they will forward your question to the appropriate coordinator.

?

For the application, go to:? https://www.ariss.org/ariss-application.html.

ARISS-Canada and the Americas, except USA: Steve McFarlane, VE3TBD email to: ve3tbd at gmail.com

ARISS-Japan, Asia, Pacific and Australia: Satoshi Yasuda, 7M3TJZ email to: ariss at iaru-r3.org, Japan Amateur Radio League (JARL) https://www.jarl.org/

ARISS-Russia: Soyuz Radioljubitelei Rossii (SRR) https://srr.ru/

?

?

******************************************************************************

ARISS is always glad to receive listener reports for the above contacts.? ARISS thanks everyone in advance for their assistance.? Feel free to send your reports to aj9n at amsat.org or aj9n at aol.com.

?

Listen for the ISS on the downlink of 145.8? MHz.

?

*******************************************************************************

?

All ARISS contacts are made via the Kenwood radio unless otherwise noted.

?

*******************************************************************************


Several of you have sent me emails asking about the RAC ARISS website and 
not being able to get in. ?That has now been changed to https://www.ariss.org/

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

****************************************************************************

Looking for something new to do?? How about receiving DATV from the ISS?? Please note that the HamTV system has been brought back to earth for troubleshooting.? Please monitor ARISS-EU or ARISS-ON for the very latest news on the troubleshooting efforts.? 

?

If interested, then please go to the ARISS-EU website for complete details.? Look for the buttons indicating Ham Video.???????????? 

?

http://www.ariss-eu.org/

?

If you need some assistance, ARISS mentor Kerry N6IZW, might be able to provide some insight.? Contact Kerry at kbanke at sbcglobal.net

?

?

The HamTV webpage:? https://www.amsat-on.be/hamtv-summary/

?

?

****************************************************************************
ARISS congratulations the following mentors who have now mentored over 100 schools: 

?

Francesco IK?WGF with 140

Satoshi 7M3TJZ with 138 

Sergey RV3DR with 135 

Gaston ON4WF with 123

?

****************************************************************************

The webpages listed below were all reviewed for accuracy. Out of date 

webpages were removed, and new ones have been added.? If there are additional 

ARISS websites I need to know about, please let me know.

?

?

?

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school events is 1394. 

Each school counts as 1 event.?????????????????????????????????? 

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school contacts is 1327. 

Each contact may have multiple schools sharing the same time slot.

Total number of ARISS supported terrestrial contacts is 48. 

?

A complete year by year breakdown of the contacts may be found in the 

file.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf

?

Please feel free to contact me if more detailed statistics are needed.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



The following US states and entities have never had an ARISS contact:
South Dakota, Wyoming, American?Samoa, Guam, Northern Marianas Islands, and the Virgin Islands.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

?

QSL information may be found at:

https://www.ariss.org/qsl-cards.html

?

ISS callsigns: DP?ISS, IR?ISS, NA1SS, OR4ISS, RS?ISS

?

****************************************************************************



Frequency chart for packet, voice, and crossband repeater modes showing 

Doppler correction as of 2005-07-29 04:00 UTC

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/ISS_frequencies_and_Doppler_correction.rtf



Check out the Zoho reports of the ARISS contacts

?

https://reports.zoho.com/ZDBDataSheetView.cc?DBID=412218000000020415

****************************************************************************

?

Exp. 62 now on orbit 

Chris Cassidy KF5KDR

Anatoli Ivanishin

Ivan Vagner

****************************************************************************

73,

Charlie?Sufana AJ9N
One of the ARISS operation team mentors

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?



From tjschuessler at verizon.net  Fri Aug 14 04:12:20 2020
From: tjschuessler at verizon.net (tjschuessler at verizon.net)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 23:12:20 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Satellite Demo Saturday 1325-1340Z
References: <003d01d671f1$1b04ba40$510e2ec0$.ref@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <003d01d671f1$1b04ba40$510e2ec0$@verizon.net>

I am doing a virtual Breakfast presentation for the Lewisville TX Amateur
Radio Club this Saturday morning, August 15.  There are two lower angle, but
good passes during the event that I hope to use as a demo.  XW-2B starting
at 1324Z and XW-2F at 1332Z  Please look for me near the center of the
passband and say hi to the group watching on GoToMeeting.

73

Tom Schuessler, N5HYP
EM12ms
N5hyp at arrl.net




From g0mrf at aol.com  Fri Aug 14 09:52:56 2020
From: g0mrf at aol.com (David G0MRF)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 09:52:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-UK OSCAR Satelliet QSO Party - G0AUK
References: <792458912.1429749.1597398776780.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <792458912.1429749.1597398776780@mail.yahoo.com>

If anyone participating in the QSO Party would like an extra 5 points,then the AMSAT-UK club call will be active on QO-100 this Saturday.
QRG around 10489.900 MHzapx. 08.00 - 10.00? +? 13.00-15.00 UTC.?? Additional times if demand exists.

The objective of the AMSAT-UK OSCAR Satellite QSO Party is to encourage all radio
amateurs to get on the air and make contacts via satellites.
While points are given per QSO this isn?t a contest, but we hope it will encourage people to
get on the air and enjoy the excitement of making contacts through satellites.
Dates Aug 1st to Sept 22nd

https://leaderboard.amsat-uk.org

Rules and prize details: https://amsat-uk.org/

73 David? G0MRF

From royldean at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 14:13:10 2020
From: royldean at gmail.com (Roy Dean)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 10:13:10 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-91 Strong out of Europe this morning!
Message-ID: <CADGPg2sv=BwZWthG7kwbW8rDyKt_XVpfGKCdD86fA4bt8iOi6g@mail.gmail.com>

I typically don't try to work these sub 5 degree passes to my northeast due
to trees (~14:00z)... but figured I'd at least turn on the antennas and
FoxTelem to see if I could score one or two frames.   Well, while I was
doing some "real" work - I had my headphones on and the bird started to
come in at full quieting.  I ended up with 35 frames and two European
contacts (G0ABI and MI0ILE)!  I wish I'd recorded it.

Congratulations to the entire AMSAT engineering team for building such
incredible little 4" cubes!

--Roy
K3RLD

From gp_ab5r at outlook.com  Fri Aug 14 16:44:53 2020
From: gp_ab5r at outlook.com (Gerald Payton)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 16:44:53 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Recording Passes
Message-ID: <SN6PR11MB2752AF38F5A998D131B10A44D0400@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

GETTING STARTED:

I realize that many Amsat OPs are using handheld antennas and operating portable.  However, I am planning a base station using my Kenwood TS-2000.  I do not visualize myself operating portable primarily that I do not have needed radios etc. and my age.  UGH!

I further realize that using some sort of recorder during a pass is almost a MUST HAVE.  Besides the obvious for base station operations of a digital of an analog recorder; what other options would some of you seasoned OPs suggest.

I know that the TS-2000 does have a recorder accessory (DRU-3A) but finding one might be a challenge due to the age of the radio.

Thanks and 73,
Jerry AB5R

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Fri Aug 14 16:51:38 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 11:51:38 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Recording Passes
In-Reply-To: <SN6PR11MB2752AF38F5A998D131B10A44D0400@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN6PR11MB2752AF38F5A998D131B10A44D0400@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <21913b40-2876-855d-3b24-cf0b94770826@pobox.com>

On 08/14/20 11:44, Gerald Payton via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> I realize that many Amsat OPs are using handheld antennas and operating portable.  However, I am planning a base station using my Kenwood TS-2000.  I do not visualize myself operating portable primarily that I do not have needed radios etc. and my age.  UGH!
> 
> I further realize that using some sort of recorder during a pass is almost a MUST HAVE.  Besides the obvious for base station operations of a digital of an analog recorder; what other options would some of you seasoned OPs suggest.

If you have a PC sitting nearby, why not use that? The TS-2000's ACC2 
socket has audio on pin 3 (MANO), which could be galvanically isolated 
(transformer) and routed into the line input of a soundcard.

I use this method on both my IC-746 and the FT-847 to record passes.

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From g0kla at arrl.net  Fri Aug 14 17:59:49 2020
From: g0kla at arrl.net (Chris Thompson)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 13:59:49 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Recording Passes
In-Reply-To: <21913b40-2876-855d-3b24-cf0b94770826@pobox.com>
References: <SN6PR11MB2752AF38F5A998D131B10A44D0400@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
	<21913b40-2876-855d-3b24-cf0b94770826@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <CAJOf0+tmDsO-MO1NVgL7SJDqh8j61AUaGn=J5=rU1KMnfXEAkA@mail.gmail.com>

Soundcard and Audacity as the recording program will work well as Zach
says.  The isolation transformer is a nice to have but not a requirement
unless you get ground loop issues.

If you are already using the sound card for another reason then an
additional cheap USB soundcard for $5 could be dedicated to that purpose.
It does not need to be a super performer.

73
Chris

On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 12:53 PM Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> On 08/14/20 11:44, Gerald Payton via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > I realize that many Amsat OPs are using handheld antennas and operating
> portable.  However, I am planning a base station using my Kenwood TS-2000.
> I do not visualize myself operating portable primarily that I do not have
> needed radios etc. and my age.  UGH!
> >
> > I further realize that using some sort of recorder during a pass is
> almost a MUST HAVE.  Besides the obvious for base station operations of a
> digital of an analog recorder; what other options would some of you
> seasoned OPs suggest.
>
> If you have a PC sitting nearby, why not use that? The TS-2000's ACC2
> socket has audio on pin 3 (MANO), which could be galvanically isolated
> (transformer) and routed into the line input of a soundcard.
>
> I use this method on both my IC-746 and the FT-847 to record passes.
>
> --- Zach
> N0ZGO
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
Chris E. Thompson
chrisethompson at gmail.com
g0kla at arrl.net

From n8hm at arrl.net  Fri Aug 14 18:01:38 2020
From: n8hm at arrl.net (Paul Stoetzer)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 14:01:38 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Recording Passes
In-Reply-To: <CAJOf0+tmDsO-MO1NVgL7SJDqh8j61AUaGn=J5=rU1KMnfXEAkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SN6PR11MB2752AF38F5A998D131B10A44D0400@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
	<21913b40-2876-855d-3b24-cf0b94770826@pobox.com>
	<CAJOf0+tmDsO-MO1NVgL7SJDqh8j61AUaGn=J5=rU1KMnfXEAkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABzOSOpKHvikc1sC2yeVYmi2vN8RN8xeTAqiF8qAtmZBhfSzkA@mail.gmail.com>

2M0SQL has developed a neat utility that interfaces with SatPC32 to
record passes.

https://www.2m0sql.com/pass-recorder/

73,

Paul, N8HM


On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 1:59 PM Chris Thompson via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Soundcard and Audacity as the recording program will work well as Zach
> says.  The isolation transformer is a nice to have but not a requirement
> unless you get ground loop issues.
>
> If you are already using the sound card for another reason then an
> additional cheap USB soundcard for $5 could be dedicated to that purpose.
> It does not need to be a super performer.
>
> 73
> Chris
>
> On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 12:53 PM Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > On 08/14/20 11:44, Gerald Payton via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > > I realize that many Amsat OPs are using handheld antennas and operating
> > portable.  However, I am planning a base station using my Kenwood TS-2000.
> > I do not visualize myself operating portable primarily that I do not have
> > needed radios etc. and my age.  UGH!
> > >
> > > I further realize that using some sort of recorder during a pass is
> > almost a MUST HAVE.  Besides the obvious for base station operations of a
> > digital of an analog recorder; what other options would some of you
> > seasoned OPs suggest.
> >
> > If you have a PC sitting nearby, why not use that? The TS-2000's ACC2
> > socket has audio on pin 3 (MANO), which could be galvanically isolated
> > (transformer) and routed into the line input of a soundcard.
> >
> > I use this method on both my IC-746 and the FT-847 to record passes.
> >
> > --- Zach
> > N0ZGO
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
>
>
> --
> Chris E. Thompson
> chrisethompson at gmail.com
> g0kla at arrl.net
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From gp_ab5r at outlook.com  Fri Aug 14 18:13:45 2020
From: gp_ab5r at outlook.com (Gerald Payton)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 18:13:45 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Recording Passes
In-Reply-To: <CAJOf0+tmDsO-MO1NVgL7SJDqh8j61AUaGn=J5=rU1KMnfXEAkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SN6PR11MB2752AF38F5A998D131B10A44D0400@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
	<21913b40-2876-855d-3b24-cf0b94770826@pobox.com>,
	<CAJOf0+tmDsO-MO1NVgL7SJDqh8j61AUaGn=J5=rU1KMnfXEAkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SN6PR11MB2752CE680E6980E85BD61C89D0400@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks, Chris, for the input.  Actually, I do have a dedicated APT receiver (APT-06) for the NOAA birds connected to my sound card.  An additional card might be the way to go.
Jerry

________________________________
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> on behalf of Chris Thompson via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 12:59 PM
To: Zach Metzinger <zmetzing at pobox.com>
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Recording Passes

Soundcard and Audacity as the recording program will work well as Zach
says.  The isolation transformer is a nice to have but not a requirement
unless you get ground loop issues.

If you are already using the sound card for another reason then an
additional cheap USB soundcard for $5 could be dedicated to that purpose.
It does not need to be a super performer.

73
Chris

On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 12:53 PM Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> On 08/14/20 11:44, Gerald Payton via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > I realize that many Amsat OPs are using handheld antennas and operating
> portable.  However, I am planning a base station using my Kenwood TS-2000.
> I do not visualize myself operating portable primarily that I do not have
> needed radios etc. and my age.  UGH!
> >
> > I further realize that using some sort of recorder during a pass is
> almost a MUST HAVE.  Besides the obvious for base station operations of a
> digital of an analog recorder; what other options would some of you
> seasoned OPs suggest.
>
> If you have a PC sitting nearby, why not use that? The TS-2000's ACC2
> socket has audio on pin 3 (MANO), which could be galvanically isolated
> (transformer) and routed into the line input of a soundcard.
>
> I use this method on both my IC-746 and the FT-847 to record passes.
>
> --- Zach
> N0ZGO
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


--
Chris E. Thompson
chrisethompson at gmail.com
g0kla at arrl.net
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 18:39:01 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 11:39:01 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] P4XT Workshop Design Review
Message-ID: <CACvjz2VDHirwV3wANWYOmH7ZfMKQ2M6q8W3WmF6rX0z1Ng2vCg@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXiWCgo10lg

Learn about our work on the digital microwave broadband transponder for
amateur radio.

All work is donated to the general public as open source. AMSAT is intended
as the primary consumer.

This digital multiplexing transponder is a regenerative design, taking full
advantage of a wide variety of cutting edge technology, intended for
amateur radio use in space and terrestrial deployments.

This review focuses on decisions made for the prototype board set that
implements the transmitter side of the payload.

Comment and critique welcome and encouraged.

-Michelle W5NYV

From peter at magicbug.co.uk  Fri Aug 14 18:39:55 2020
From: peter at magicbug.co.uk (Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL))
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 19:39:55 +0100
Subject: [amsat-bb] Recording Passes
In-Reply-To: <SN6PR11MB2752AF38F5A998D131B10A44D0400@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN6PR11MB2752AF38F5A998D131B10A44D0400@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAFvUaiqJzTQyDux3Auw5YAR4gZXx-qQeR9wG3o9qg-rn+16Etw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jerry,

Simple and cheap solution is a sound card interface for the TS-2000
and feed the audio into the computer.

My setup is the following IC-910HX with two ZLP Electronics soundcard
interfaces (main/sub) which I use with SatPC32 rather than having to
record each pass manually I wrote a little application called Pass
Recorder https://www.2m0sql.com/pass-recorder/ that sits and listens
to the DDE Interface from SatPC32 when a satellites going overhead it
automatically saves the file as a wav into a folder of your choice.

Peter, 2M0SQL

On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 at 17:45, Gerald Payton via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> GETTING STARTED:
>
> I realize that many Amsat OPs are using handheld antennas and operating portable.  However, I am planning a base station using my Kenwood TS-2000.  I do not visualize myself operating portable primarily that I do not have needed radios etc. and my age.  UGH!
>
> I further realize that using some sort of recorder during a pass is almost a MUST HAVE.  Besides the obvious for base station operations of a digital of an analog recorder; what other options would some of you seasoned OPs suggest.
>
> I know that the TS-2000 does have a recorder accessory (DRU-3A) but finding one might be a challenge due to the age of the radio.
>
> Thanks and 73,
> Jerry AB5R
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From marklhammond at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 18:43:00 2020
From: marklhammond at gmail.com (Mark L. Hammond)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 14:43:00 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Thinking and thanking...Tony AA2TX
Message-ID: <CAPRXzyr-_EKNqELfMkgmfW1-JH3zk_5qmtJPV2ihwFW-4+J0Sw@mail.gmail.com>

About a week ago, Facebook alerted me that it was Tony AA2TX Monteiro's
birthday.  I'll admit it caught me off guard, yet it was really fun
thinking about the wonderful work he did for us, AMSAT, as the "father of
the Fox satellite family."  He was such a neat and brilliant guy.   So over
the past several days I have been thinking of him, and being thankful for
him.  It brought back memories of a HamRadioNow.TV interview from Dayton
Hamvention in 2013, where Tony was VP for Engineering, and I was the first
VP for Educational Relations.   This is before any of the Fox birds were
built and buttoned up for launch.   If you're curious, and you never had
the chance to meet Tony (or even if you did!!) you might enjoy watching the
video and hearing about the vision and planning; note that the interview
starts about 5 mins into the recording.   It was touching for me,
personally.

https://www.amsat.org/hamradionow-amsat-fox-1-interview-now-online/

It took Jerry N0JY Buxton as the "new VP" and friends stepping up to
fulfill Tony's vision.   So I'm thankful for all of you that did all of
this.  Far too many to count.  And the "bonus bird" Fox-1E wasn't even part
of Tony's original vision...but I can't wait to have that one flown and
operational "someday soon" as well!

If you work AO-91 or AO-92 this weekend, maybe you'll also be "thinking and
thanking" Tony AA2TX, too!

73,

Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
AMSAT Director and Command Station

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 20:01:53 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 16:01:53 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Thinking and thanking...Tony AA2TX
In-Reply-To: <CAPRXzyr-_EKNqELfMkgmfW1-JH3zk_5qmtJPV2ihwFW-4+J0Sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPRXzyr-_EKNqELfMkgmfW1-JH3zk_5qmtJPV2ihwFW-4+J0Sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c8hfuU_7Jx0Mfa8WC9YO-=ko=jBuC=Y2Edy3b0XzPeJiQ@mail.gmail.com>

Mark,

Good stuff!  I met him a couple of times at the symposiums and he was
always super nice.  Also, probably one of the most brilliant people
i've listened
to present SDR.  His presentation from the Orlando symposium, was one of
the most comprehensive I have ever heard on the topic.  Was any video taken
of those presentations?  If-so, is it possible to resurrect some of them?
I also remember when the abrupt announcement was made that he would no
longer be attending the meetings / telecons.  I appreciate you raising our
awareness and bringing some well deserved attention and appreciation for
him.

73,

Joseph Armbruster

KJ4JIO


On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 2:54 PM Mark L. Hammond via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> About a week ago, Facebook alerted me that it was Tony AA2TX Monteiro's
> birthday.  I'll admit it caught me off guard, yet it was really fun
> thinking about the wonderful work he did for us, AMSAT, as the "father of
> the Fox satellite family."  He was such a neat and brilliant guy.   So over
> the past several days I have been thinking of him, and being thankful for
> him.  It brought back memories of a HamRadioNow.TV interview from Dayton
> Hamvention in 2013, where Tony was VP for Engineering, and I was the first
> VP for Educational Relations.   This is before any of the Fox birds were
> built and buttoned up for launch.   If you're curious, and you never had
> the chance to meet Tony (or even if you did!!) you might enjoy watching the
> video and hearing about the vision and planning; note that the interview
> starts about 5 mins into the recording.   It was touching for me,
> personally.
>
> https://www.amsat.org/hamradionow-amsat-fox-1-interview-now-online/
>
> It took Jerry N0JY Buxton as the "new VP" and friends stepping up to
> fulfill Tony's vision.   So I'm thankful for all of you that did all of
> this.  Far too many to count.  And the "bonus bird" Fox-1E wasn't even part
> of Tony's original vision...but I can't wait to have that one flown and
> operational "someday soon" as well!
>
> If you work AO-91 or AO-92 this weekend, maybe you'll also be "thinking and
> thanking" Tony AA2TX, too!
>
> 73,
>
> Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
> AMSAT Director and Command Station
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From aj9n at aol.com  Fri Aug 14 20:51:30 2020
From: aj9n at aol.com (aj9n at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 20:51:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-14 21:00
	UTC
References: <1655952087.1660115.1597438290769.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1655952087.1660115.1597438290769@mail.yahoo.com>


Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-14 21:00 UTC

?

Quick list of scheduled contacts and events:

?

Kopernik Observatory & Science Center, Vestal, NY, direct via K2ZRO 

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be NA1SS

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR 

Contact is go for: Wed 2020-08-19 18:21:55 UTC 85 deg (***)

Rescheduled again due to ISS hatch closures for leak detection activity. (***)

Watch for live stream starting about 20 to 30 minutes ahead of AOS at: https://youtu.be/1Pwcc2rilz0??

?

########################################################################################################################################

A multi-point telebridge contact means that each student will be on the telebridge from their own home.

*************************************************

?

ARISS is very aware of the impact that COVID-19 is having on schools and the public in general.? As such, we may have last minute cancellations or postponements of school contacts.? As always, I will try to provide everyone with near-real-time updates.? 

?

The following schools have now been postponed or cancelled due to COVID-19:? 

?

Postponed:

No new schools

?

Cancelled:

No new schools

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

?

Watch for future COVID-19 related announcements here also.

?

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

?

Note, all times are approximate. ?It is recommended that you do your own 

orbital prediction?or start listening about 10 minutes before the listed 

time. 

All dates and times listed follow International Standard ISO 8601 date and 

time format YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS

?

The complete schedule page has been updated as of?2020-08-14 21:00 UTC. (***)

Here you will find a listing of all scheduled?school contacts, and 

questions, other ISS related websites, IRLP and Echolink websites, and 

instructions for any contact that may be streamed live.

?

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf 

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.txt 

?

?

The successful school list has been updated as of 2020-08-11 16:30 UTC.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/Successful_ARISS_schools.rtf 

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

?

Message to US Educators

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States) 

?

The Proposal Window of February 1, 2020 to March 31, 2020 has now closed.

?

For future proposal information and more details such as expectations, proposal guidelines and proposal form, and dates and times of Information Webinars, go to www.ariss.org.

?

Please direct any questions to?ariss.us.education at gmail.com.

?

About ARISS:

?

Amateur Radio on the International Space Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radio societies and the space agencies that support the International Space Station (ISS).? In the United States, sponsors are the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio Relay League (ARRL), the ISS National Lab and National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEAM) topics by organizing scheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS and students in classrooms or public forms. Before and during these radio contacts, students, educators, parents, and communities learn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. For more information, see www.ariss.org.

?

********************************************************************************

ARISS Contact Applications (Europe, Africa and the Middle East)

?

Schools and Youth organizations in Europe, Africa and the Middle East interested in setting up an ARISS radio contact with an astronaut on board the International Space Station are invited to submit an application from September to October and from February to April.

Please refer to details and the application form at www.ariss-eu.org/school-contacts.? Applications should be addressed by email to:? school.selection.manager at ariss-eu.org

?

ARISS Contact Applications (Canada, Central and South America, Asia and Australia and Russia)

?

Organizations outside the United States can apply for an ARISS contact by filling out an application.? Please direct questions to the appropriate regional representative listed below. If your country is not specifically listed, send your questions to the nearest ARISS Region listed. If you are unsure which address to use, please send your question to the ARISS-Canada representative; they will forward your question to the appropriate coordinator.

?

For the application, go to:? https://www.ariss.org/ariss-application.html.

ARISS-Canada and the Americas, except USA: Steve McFarlane, VE3TBD email to: ve3tbd at gmail.com

ARISS-Japan, Asia, Pacific and Australia: Satoshi Yasuda, 7M3TJZ email to: ariss at iaru-r3.org, Japan Amateur Radio League (JARL) https://www.jarl.org/

ARISS-Russia: Soyuz Radioljubitelei Rossii (SRR) https://srr.ru/

?

?

******************************************************************************

ARISS is always glad to receive listener reports for the above contacts.? ARISS thanks everyone in advance for their assistance.? Feel free to send your reports to aj9n at amsat.org or aj9n at aol.com.

?

Listen for the ISS on the downlink of 145.8? MHz.

?

*******************************************************************************

?

All ARISS contacts are made via the Kenwood radio unless otherwise noted.

?

*******************************************************************************


Several of you have sent me emails asking about the RAC ARISS website and 
not being able to get in. ?That has now been changed to https://www.ariss.org/

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

****************************************************************************

Looking for something new to do?? How about receiving DATV from the ISS?? Please note that the HamTV system has been brought back to earth for troubleshooting.? Please monitor ARISS-EU or ARISS-ON for the very latest news on the troubleshooting efforts.? 

?

If interested, then please go to the ARISS-EU website for complete details.? Look for the buttons indicating Ham Video.???????????? 

?

http://www.ariss-eu.org/

?

If you need some assistance, ARISS mentor Kerry N6IZW, might be able to provide some insight.? Contact Kerry at kbanke at sbcglobal.net

?

?

The HamTV webpage:? https://www.amsat-on.be/hamtv-summary/

?

?

****************************************************************************
ARISS congratulations the following mentors who have now mentored over 100 schools: 

?

Francesco IK?WGF with 140

Satoshi 7M3TJZ with 138 

Sergey RV3DR with 135 

Gaston ON4WF with 123

?

****************************************************************************

The webpages listed below were all reviewed for accuracy. Out of date 

webpages were removed, and new ones have been added.? If there are additional 

ARISS websites I need to know about, please let me know.

?

?

?

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school events is 1394. 

Each school counts as 1 event.?????????????????????????????????? 

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school contacts is 1327. 

Each contact may have multiple schools sharing the same time slot.

Total number of ARISS supported terrestrial contacts is 48. 

?

A complete year by year breakdown of the contacts may be found in the 

file.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf

?

Please feel free to contact me if more detailed statistics are needed.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



The following US states and entities have never had an ARISS contact:
South Dakota, Wyoming, American?Samoa, Guam, Northern Marianas Islands, and the Virgin Islands.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

?

QSL information may be found at:

https://www.ariss.org/qsl-cards.html

?

ISS callsigns: DP?ISS, IR?ISS, NA1SS, OR4ISS, RS?ISS

?

****************************************************************************



Frequency chart for packet, voice, and crossband repeater modes showing 

Doppler correction as of 2005-07-29 04:00 UTC

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/ISS_frequencies_and_Doppler_correction.rtf



Check out the Zoho reports of the ARISS contacts

?

https://reports.zoho.com/ZDBDataSheetView.cc?DBID=412218000000020415

****************************************************************************

?

Exp. 62 now on orbit 

Chris Cassidy KF5KDR

Anatoli Ivanishin

Ivan Vagner

****************************************************************************

73,

Charlie?Sufana AJ9N
One of the ARISS operation team mentors

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?



From zleffke at vt.edu  Fri Aug 14 21:36:25 2020
From: zleffke at vt.edu (Leffke, Zachary)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 21:36:25 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Thinking and thanking...Tony AA2TX
In-Reply-To: <CAPRXzyr-_EKNqELfMkgmfW1-JH3zk_5qmtJPV2ihwFW-4+J0Sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPRXzyr-_EKNqELfMkgmfW1-JH3zk_5qmtJPV2ihwFW-4+J0Sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR05MB70377CE6EE5E4E9AF184A7BDDF400@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

I too am very thankful for Tony and his efforts.  Working with him was the beginning of the AMSAT/VT relationship when I was still a graduate student and my first exposure to AMSAT (outside of Bob N4HY).  I remember that very very first side meeting with Bob and Tony at the AMSAT symposium (I think the 2013 Orlando one).  Bob asked Tony...what kind of student payload do you want for the Foxes....Tony said how about a camera?  Bob said 'you got it'....then turned to me and said...'your gonna build some cameras'....and I said 'OK' (I knew absolutely nothing about spaceflight hardware or cameras at the time).

...Fast forward to the very first piece of VT student built hardware launched to orbit....our camera on AO-92.  There were at least twenty or so students alone involved in that effort, from concept to prototype to flight units to orbit to that first image downlinked.....I ran a victory lap up down the Hume Center halls whooping (I think I startled some folks)....and then taped up the image all over the building.

So in a very real way, Tony got VT to orbit.....I can't even begin to itemize what that effort has done for VT work in the area of smallsats/cubesats/etc. and the trickledown effect for the students.  Space is hard, and a tough nut to crack.....Tony was instrumental in getting us on the path to success, he has a legacy at VT.

Very thankful to Tony, Bob, all the AMSAT Volunteers (too many names to list...hopefully you know who you are :-) ), and many others that helped us get there.  Thanks for this note Mark, good memories and thoughts of Tony from Blacksburg!  I have no official authority on this, but in my book....honorary Hokie!

73s
-Zach, KJ4QLP
-- 
Research Associate
Aerospace & Ocean Systems Lab
Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
Work Phone: 540-231-4174
Cell Phone: 540-808-6305

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Mark L. Hammond via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 2:43 PM
To: Amsat - BBs <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Thinking and thanking...Tony AA2TX

About a week ago, Facebook alerted me that it was Tony AA2TX Monteiro's birthday.  I'll admit it caught me off guard, yet it was really fun thinking about the wonderful work he did for us, AMSAT, as the "father of
the Fox satellite family."  He was such a neat and brilliant guy.   So over
the past several days I have been thinking of him, and being thankful for him.  It brought back memories of a HamRadioNow.TV interview from Dayton Hamvention in 2013, where Tony was VP for Engineering, and I was the first
VP for Educational Relations.   This is before any of the Fox birds were
built and buttoned up for launch.   If you're curious, and you never had
the chance to meet Tony (or even if you did!!) you might enjoy watching the video and hearing about the vision and planning; note that the interview
starts about 5 mins into the recording.   It was touching for me,
personally.

https://www.amsat.org/hamradionow-amsat-fox-1-interview-now-online/

It took Jerry N0JY Buxton as the "new VP" and friends stepping up to
fulfill Tony's vision.   So I'm thankful for all of you that did all of
this.  Far too many to count.  And the "bonus bird" Fox-1E wasn't even part of Tony's original vision...but I can't wait to have that one flown and operational "someday soon" as well!

If you work AO-91 or AO-92 this weekend, maybe you'll also be "thinking and thanking" Tony AA2TX, too!

73,

Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
AMSAT Director and Command Station
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From yono_adisoemarta at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 15 01:52:28 2020
From: yono_adisoemarta at yahoo.com (Yono Adisoemarta)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2020 08:52:28 +0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Recording Passes
In-Reply-To: <CAJOf0+tmDsO-MO1NVgL7SJDqh8j61AUaGn=J5=rU1KMnfXEAkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJOf0+tmDsO-MO1NVgL7SJDqh8j61AUaGn=J5=rU1KMnfXEAkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EB88E742-DE64-4B5E-B147-E9946B9C8691@yahoo.com>


I use audacity on the laptop next to my TS-2000 thru the audio out of ACC2 port.

73 de Yono YD0NXX 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 15, 2020, at 1:02 AM, Chris Thompson via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?Soundcard and Audacity as the recording program will work well as Zach
> says.  The isolation transformer is a nice to have but not a requirement
> unless you get ground loop issues.
> 
> If you are already using the sound card for another reason then an
> additional cheap USB soundcard for $5 could be dedicated to that purpose.
> It does not need to be a super performer.
> 
> 73
> Chris
> 
>> On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 12:53 PM Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 08/14/20 11:44, Gerald Payton via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>>> I realize that many Amsat OPs are using handheld antennas and operating
>> portable.  However, I am planning a base station using my Kenwood TS-2000.
>> I do not visualize myself operating portable primarily that I do not have
>> needed radios etc. and my age.  UGH!
>>> 
>>> I further realize that using some sort of recorder during a pass is
>> almost a MUST HAVE.  Besides the obvious for base station operations of a
>> digital of an analog recorder; what other options would some of you
>> seasoned OPs suggest.
>> 
>> If you have a PC sitting nearby, why not use that? The TS-2000's ACC2
>> socket has audio on pin 3 (MANO), which could be galvanically isolated
>> (transformer) and routed into the line input of a soundcard.
>> 
>> I use this method on both my IC-746 and the FT-847 to record passes.
>> 
>> --- Zach
>> N0ZGO
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Chris E. Thompson
> chrisethompson at gmail.com
> g0kla at arrl.net
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From n4spk at outlook.com  Sat Aug 15 02:26:08 2020
From: n4spk at outlook.com (Sean Paul)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2020 02:26:08 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Helping a totally blind ham get started working the
	birds?
Message-ID: <MN2PR19MB2429ABE63B931D4C4C213333EE410@MN2PR19MB2429.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

Hello all: subject line pretty much says it all. I am in Chattanooga TN & want to get started working the satellites. Anyone interested in helping me. Please reach on out. Thanks N4SPK

Sean Paul informs y'all from my iPhone 

From mat_62 at charter.net  Sat Aug 15 03:11:12 2020
From: mat_62 at charter.net (Michael Tondee)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 23:11:12 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Thinking and thanking...Tony AA2TX
In-Reply-To: <0b626341-da6d-5d52-fc73-77a9f6c48fc2@charter.net>
References: <0b626341-da6d-5d52-fc73-77a9f6c48fc2@charter.net>
Message-ID: <7fa37dba-7c7c-7d21-cc19-4be9c95cdcb0@charter.net>

Subject: 	RE: Thinking and thanking...Tony AA2TX
Date: 	Fri, 14 Aug 2020 23:09:28 -0400
From: 	Michael Tondee <mat_62 at charter.net>
To: 	amsatbb at amsat.org



It was Tony who told me where to get the out of production and hard to 
find OR-360 rotors that I used in my fist sat station with my homebrew 
SAEBRETrack box. I had tapped out my hobby finances just getting a sat 
capable rig and if not for that circuit and those rotators, I might not 
have gotten any further. As disillusioned as I am with where this side 
of the hobby seems to be headed now, thanks to you, Gene and Tony, I'll 
always have the memories of working AO-7 which is something I had wanted 
to do since I was a teenager and first saw it on the cover of QST. 
Unfortunately I missed AO-40 by a few years but the times I spent with 
AO-7, AO-51, FO-29 etc. using that rotor setup topped with some homebrew 
WA5VJB "cheap yagis" were some good ones and I miss them. MY thanks to 
all you guys!
73,
Michael, W4HIJ

Message: 11
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 14:43:00 -0400
From: "Mark L. Hammond"<marklhammond at gmail.com>
To: Amsat - BBs<amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Thinking and thanking...Tony AA2TX
Message-ID:
<CAPRXzyr-_EKNqELfMkgmfW1-JH3zk_5qmtJPV2ihwFW-4+J0Sw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

About a week ago, Facebook alerted me that it was Tony AA2TX Monteiro's
birthday. I'll admit it caught me off guard, yet it was really fun
thinking about the wonderful work he did for us, AMSAT, as the "father of
the Fox satellite family." He was such a neat and brilliant guy. So over
the past several days I have been thinking of him, and being thankful for
him. It brought back memories of a HamRadioNow.TV interview from Dayton
Hamvention in 2013, where Tony was VP for Engineering, and I was the first
VP for Educational Relations. This is before any of the Fox birds were
built and buttoned up for launch. If you're curious, and you never had
the chance to meet Tony (or even if you did!!) you might enjoy watching the
video and hearing about the vision and planning; note that the interview
starts about 5 mins into the recording. It was touching for me,
personally.

https://www.amsat.org/hamradionow-amsat-fox-1-interview-now-online/

It took Jerry N0JY Buxton as the "new VP" and friends stepping up to
fulfill Tony's vision. So I'm thankful for all of you that did all of
this. Far too many to count. And the "bonus bird" Fox-1E wasn't even part
of Tony's original vision...but I can't wait to have that one flown and
operational "someday soon" as well!

If you work AO-91 or AO-92 this weekend, maybe you'll also be "thinking and
thanking" Tony AA2TX, too!

73,

Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
AMSAT Director and Command Station


From w3ab at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 15 17:43:25 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (GEO Badger)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2020 17:43:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Helping a totally blind ham get started working
	the	birds?
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR19MB2429ABE63B931D4C4C213333EE410@MN2PR19MB2429.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MN2PR19MB2429ABE63B931D4C4C213333EE410@MN2PR19MB2429.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1350814368.2518725.1597513405466@mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Sean Paul. Do you currently have a radio?
---? 
 Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side??
73 de W3AB/GEO ??? 

 http://www.w3ab.org

You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out". 

    On Saturday, August 15, 2020, 08:05:00 AM PDT, Sean Paul via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 Hello all: subject line pretty much says it all. I am in Chattanooga TN & want to get started working the satellites. Anyone interested in helping me. Please reach on out. Thanks N4SPK

Sean Paul informs y'all from my iPhone 
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From n1uw at gokarns.com  Sun Aug 16 00:05:57 2020
From: n1uw at gokarns.com (Frank Karnauskas)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2020 19:05:57 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletin ANS-229
Message-ID: <001c01d67361$04c88380$0e598a80$@gokarns.com>

AMSAT NEWS SERVICE
ANS-229


The AMSAT News Service bulletins are a free, weekly news and 
information service of AMSAT North America, The Radio
Amateur Satellite Corporation.  ANS publishes news related to Amateur
Radio in space including reports on the activities of a worldwide
group of Amateur Radio operators who share an active interest in 
designing, building, launching and communicating through analog and
digital Amateur Radio satellites.

The news feed on http://amsat.org publishes news of Amateur Radio 
in space as soon as our volunteers can post it.

Please send any amateur satellite news or reports to:
ans-editor at amsat dot org.


In this edition:

* Two-Minute Engineering Video Update Available
* CubeSat.org Announced CubeSat Design Specification Rev.14
* US Department of Defense to Share 3450 ? 3550 MHz with 5G 
  Commercial Operations
* QSO Today Virtual Expo Satellite Presentations Still Available
* Chinese Mars probe Tianwen-1 successfully received by AMSAT-DL
* SmallSat 2020 Virtual Conference Proceedings Available Online 
* Upcoming Satellite Operations
* ARISS News
* Satellite Shorts from All Over


SB SAT @ AMSAT $ANS-229.01
ANS-229 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletins

AMSAT News Service Bulletin 229.01
>From AMSAT HQ KENSINGTON, MD.
August 16, 2020
To All RADIO AMATEURS
BID: $ANS-229.01


Two-Minute Engineering Video Update Available

Jerry Buxton, N0JY, Vice President-Engineering has published a two-
minute video update on the progress of AMSAT projects. Among the 
highlights are:

- The RadFxSat-2 / Fox-1E satellite is ready for delivery and 
  integration and is expected to launch by the end of the year.
- The University of Maine will use an AMSAT LTM-1 module for command 
  and control of their upcoming CubeSat mission, MESAT-1. The LTM-1 
  also provides a linear transponder for amateur radio use. AMSAT is 
  in discussions with additional partners about flying LTM-1 modules.
- Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, vendors have been delayed in 
  supplying printed circuit boards for the GOLF-TEE project. The 
  impact of the pandemic has also affected the amount of time 
  AMSAT's volunteer engineers have for their hobby work. Completion 
  of GOLF-TEE is expected by the end of June 2021. 
- Dependent on fulfilling its primary mission, the GOLF-TEE satellite 
  may include a X-band downlink parrot of the V-band uplink and L/S 
  band uplinks which are planned for GOLF-1.
- Research is underway to place GOLF-1 into a higher orbit while 
  meeting regulatory requirements.
- GOLF-TEE is a candidate for a launch on an upcoming DoD mission. 

 You can view Jerry's update at: https://youtu.be/9H4iM1hoVG4.

[ANS thanks Jerry Buxton, N0JY, Vice President-Engineering for the 
above information.]

--------------------------------------------------------------------

CubeSat.org Announced CubeSat Design Specification Rev.14

The Cal Poly CubeSat Lab has announced that a draft version of the 
newest CubeSat Design Specification (CDS) is available. Feedback 
before the official release of the 14th revision is welcome. 

There are a number of changes, which are detailed in the Appendix of 
the document. But overall, the document has been updated to act as 
more of a guide for CubeSat designers, rather than a ?how-to? manual.

The original CDS introduced the CubeSat Standard to the world almost 
two decades ago. It defined the physical and electrical 
characteristics for a 1U and 3U size CubeSat and included 
requirements for interfacing with the only CubeSat dispenser 
available at the time, the Poly-Pico Orbital Deployer (P-POD). Since 
then the industry has expanded to include more standard sizes and 
additional dispensers with more available options.

To accommodate these new advancements, the CDS has been retooled to 
be more flexible and inclusive of developments within the industry. 
Requirements that were originally written specifically for the P-POD 
will encompass requirements for all dispensers currently available. 
It is also the intention for the new revision of the CDS to identify 
the available options on dispensers that are widely available for 
use. Currently that list is limited to dispensers that publish their 
specifications online, but can be updated as dispenser companies make 
that information available to us. The CDS will also define all U 
configurations in one document with one set of requirements for ease 
of reference.

The new CDS should be the first stop for any developer beginning 
their CubeSat design.

A complete copy of the revised specification can be seen at: 
https://www.cubesat.org/cds-announcement

[ANS thanks Cal Poly CubeSat Lab for the above information.]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

         Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, the AMSAT office
    is closed until further notice. For details, please visit
  https://www.amsat.org/amsat-office-closed-until-further-notice/

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+



US Department of Defense to Share 3450 ? 3550 MHz with 5G 
Commercial Operations

The FCC will auction sharing rights to the upper 50 MHz of the 
3300 ? 3500 MHz secondary amateur radio allocation to commercial 5G 
interests in the wake of the Department of Defense (DoD) agreement to 
share spectrum at 3450 ? 3550 MHz. The entire band currently supports 
a variety of military operations, and amateur radio has a long 
history of peaceful coexistence with the Department of Defense as a 
secondary user of this spectrum.

Late last year, the FCC proposed to delete the amateur secondary 
3300 ? 3500 MHz secondary allocation as well as the amateur-satellite 
allocation at 3400 ? 3410 MHz. The FCC could auction the 100 MHz of 
spectrum in early 2022. This latest move makes a contiguous band of 
spectrum from 3450 ? 3980 MHz available for commercial 5G networks.

?For a number of years, the National Telecommunications and 
Information Administration (NTIA) and FCC have focused on the 
3450 ? 3550 MHz band as the spectrum most conducive to sharing with 
commercial users,? said ARRL Washington Counsel David Siddall, K3ZJ. 
?Monday?s statements announced that a framework for sharing has been 
worked out.?

In December 2019, the FCC adopted a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking 
(NPRM) in WT Docket 19-348 proposing to delete the 3300 ? 3500 MHz 
secondary amateur band. ARRL strongly opposed the move in its 
comments on the NPRM, which put forward the FCC?s plans to remove 
?existing non-federal secondary radiolocation and amateur 
allocations? in the 3300 ? 3500 MHz band and to consider options for 
relocating incumbent non-federal operations.

Siddall said the spectrum below 3450 MHz presents a more difficult 
government/commercial sharing scenario, and that future sharing 
there remains uncertain. ?We continue to argue that the amateur 
secondary allocation should not be deleted in this band,? he said. 
?We recognize that our access is secondary, and ask only to be given 
a chance to use our considerable technical skills to work around 
whatever future uses may be implemented in this spectrum.?

The complete article can be seen at: https://tinyurl.com/ANS-229-5G.

[ANS thanks the ARRL for the above information.]

--------------------------------------------------------------------

QSO Today Virtual Expo Satellite Presentations Still Available

Congratulations to Tom Schuessler, N5HYP of Irving, Texas for his 
outstanding presentation, "Getting Started with Amateur Radio 
Satellites."  Tom's thirty-three minute presentation provided an 
excellent review of the basics needed to enjoy this aspect of the 
hobby, on-the-air-demonstrations, and prominent promotion of AMSAT 
as the center of Amateur Radio Satellite activity.

Also presented at the Virtual Expo was 4Z1ZV, Zvi Segal's overview of
the Qatar Oscar-100 Satellite running seventeen minutes.

Watch the presentations at https://qsotoday.vfairs.com/. Even if you 
didn't register for the original event, you can still register to 
watch the presentations which will be available until 
September 9, 2020.

With over 14,000 participants each day of the August event, 
organizers are already the next QSO Today Virtual Expo for 
March 13-14, 2021. 

[ANS thanks QSO Today for the above information.]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

AMSAT's GOLF Program is about getting back to higher orbits, and it
all begins with GOLF-TEE - a technology demonstrator for deployable
solar panels, propulsion, and attitude control. Come along for the
ride. The journey will be worth it!

                  https://tinyurl.com/ANS-GOLF

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

Chinese Mars probe Tianwen-1 successfully received by AMSAT-DL

Soon after its launch on July 23rd, the Chinese Mars mission 
Tianwen-1 has been received by AMSAT-DL with its 20m ground station 
in Bochum, Germany. Amateur radio observers Paul Marsh M0EYT and his 
#hearsat group have been tracking Tianwen-1 since its launch from 
Wenchang Spacecraft Launch Site. As no trajectory data was published 
Daniel Estevez, EA4GPZ used the coordinated observations to generate 
an estimated trajectory which allows narrowing down the search area.

After some reformatting of the data by James Miller G3RUH, AMSAT-DL 
gave it a first try during on July 24th and 25th with successful 
detection of the Tianwen-1 telemetry on 8430.911 MHz. An initial 
guess suggests a BPSK modulation with residual carrier and data 
modulated on a subcarrier. More than 2 GB of baseband data have been 
recorded and are being analyzed by the #hearsat group.

This report not only demonstrates the capabilities of Amateur Radio 
operators when it comes to deep space missions but also the 
flexibility and performance of the AMSAT-DL 20m ground station in 
Bochum which (except for scheduled maintenance on site) can be 
operated fully remotely.

The complete story can be seen at:  
https://tinyurl.com/ANS-229-Tianwen-1

[ANS thanks AMSAT-DL for the above information.]

--------------------------------------------------------------------

SmallSat 2020 Virtual Conference Proceedings Available Online

The 34th Annual Small Satellite Conference was a virtual event hosted 
by SmallSat.org and Utah State University, Logan, Utah.  The event 
attracted 8,100 participants over three days August 1-3, 2020. With 
the conference theme, "Space Mission Architectures - Infinite 
Possibilities", the conference explored the realm of possible space 
mission architectures and how they can be practically achieved to 
support the diverse needs of the global space community. 

Organized along twelve technical tracks, all 162 presentations are 
available to the public.  Additionally, literally hundreds of posters 
can be downloaded for viewing. Especially useful is a search function 
on the site that can search keywords to help find presentation and 
posters that deal with specific topics.

For those interested in the future of small satellites, including 
those in the Amateur Radio Satellite Service, there is one especially 
pertinent presentation entitled " Small Satellite Regulation in 2020" 
with attorneys Lynne Montgomery and Christopher Bair of Wilkinson 
Barker Knauer LLP. In this twelve minute presentation, 
Ms. Montgomery thoroughly covers the range of regulations affecting 
small satellite operations, the agencies involved, licensing 
procedures and what future legal burdens are looming for small 
satellite operators.

The complete collection of presentations and posters can be seen at:
https://smallsat.org/. 

[ANS thanks SmallSat.org for the above information.]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

    Need new satellite antennas? Purchase Arrows, Alaskan Arrows,
   and M2 LEO-Packs from the AMSAT Store. When you purchase through
          AMSAT, a portion of the proceeds goes towards
                 Keeping Amateur Radio in Space.
           https://amsat.org/product-category/hardware/

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

Upcoming Satellite Operations

* Quick Hits:

DM97/98 & EM08/09, 8/29 & 8/30: Super Rover @ADoDX is heading out 
for the Kansas QSO party and N0E. More to come.

IL38 EA8/EA4NF 8/10-8/17 IL38/39

* Major Roves:

@AD0HJ, is heading out again for the South Dakota Super Rove Part II 
Rove: Grids DN73, DN82, DN83, DN92, DN93, EN02, EN03, EN12, EN24, 
and EN25. August 17th through August 21st.

@WA9JBQ is heading out to Idaho DN24,DN25,DN26 DN34, DN16, DN15, and 
DN14 starting August 15th. Then moving into Montana for DN35,DN36, 
DN37, DN38 DN49 DN47. He will be out a total of 5-6 weeks. Mostly 
FM some linear. Will post to twitter details. 

[ANS thanks Robert Bankston, KE4AL for the above information.]

--------------------------------------------------------------------

ARISS News

* Upcoming Contacts:

Kopernik Observatory & Science Center, Vestal, NY, direct via K2ZRO.
The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be NA1SS.
he scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR.
Contact is go for Friday, August 21, 2020 at 18:23:40 UTC. 29 deg.
Watch for live stream starting about 20 to 30 minutes ahead of AOS 
at: https://youtu.be/1Pwcc2rilz0  

NOTE: AS of August 14, 2021, this contact has been rescheduled 
again due to ISS hatch closures for leak detection activity. 

* Completed Contacts

GAGARIN FROM SPACE. Performing a radio amateur session with school 
children of Tatarstan, Russia, direct via RZ4PXO.
The ISS callsign was RS?ISS.
The scheduled astronaut was Ivan Vagner.
Contact was successful on  August 7, 2020 at 11:18 UTC.

[ANS thanks Charlie Sufana, AJ9N  for the above information.]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

   AMSAT, along with our ARISS partners, is developing an amateur
   radio package, including two-way communication capability, to
           be carried on-board Gateway in lunar orbit.

   Support AMSAT's projects today at https://www.amsat.org/donate/

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

Shorts from All Over

* NASA At Home Offerings Updated Regularly

As was reported before, NASA continually offers a variety of videos, 
podcasts, virtual tours, e-books and activities.  This service has 
offerings that are of interest to adults as well as students with an 
interest in space exploration.  The lineup changes weekly so, if you 
haven't been back in a while, take a moment to see the current 
assortment at:
https://www.nasa.gov/specials/nasaathome/index.html

[ANS thanks NASA for the above information.]

* Build a Simple ISS Tracker with Raspberry Pi

Fancy tracking the ISS?s trajectory? Looking for a project beyond 
using your smart phone app? All you need is a Raspberry Pi, an 
e-paper display, an enclosure, and a little Python code. Check out
The MagPi Magazine issue #96.  The download is free and can be 
found at: https://magpi.raspberrypi.org/issues/96.

[ANS thanks RaspberryPi.org for the above information.]

* Another Distance Record Claimed

Another distance record claimed by Jerome LeCuyer, F4DXV this time on 
AO-92 (U/v). Jerome worked Dana Rushton, VE1VOX in Nova Scotia at 
12:54 UTC on August 10, 2020, a distance of 5,011 km.

[ANS thanks Paul Stoetzer, N8MH, AMSAT Executive Vice President for 
the above information.]

--------------------------------------------------------------------

In addition to regular membership, AMSAT offers membership in the 
President's Club. Members of the President's Club, as sustaining
donors to AMSAT Project Funds, will be eligible to receive 
additional benefits. Application forms are available from the 
AMSAT office.

Primary and secondary school students are eligible for membership at
one-half the standard yearly rate. Post-secondary school students
enrolled in at least half time status shall be eligible for the 
student rate for a maximum of six post-secondary years in this 
status.

Contact Martha at the AMSAT office for additional student 
membership information.

73,
This week's ANS Editor,
Frank Karnauskas, N1UW
n1uw at amsat dot org

Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum 
available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring 
membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author 
and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.

Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite 
program!

Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb





From clintbradford at mac.com  Sun Aug 16 04:42:14 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2020 21:42:14 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming Presentations - K6LCS
Message-ID: <1415B74F-A73B-4E67-87C9-FF531542EA52@mac.com>

Clint Bradford K6LCS has booked his ?Work the FM Voice 
Satellites With Minimal Equipment? presentation for the clubs =

09/02/2020 - Garden State ARA, New Jersey
09/14/2020 - North Agusta Belevedere Radio Club
10/27/2020 - Cherryland ARC / Traverse Bay ARC

TBD - Antelope Valley (CA) ARC
TBD - A private presentation fo a Boy Scout troop inDanville, Pennsylvania

These will be Zoom presentations. Everyone is asked to regularly update 
their copies of the Zoom application - by directly visiting Zoom.us <http://zoom.us/>.

Times, Zoom meeting info, and more details to follow.

Clint Bradford K6LCS 
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/9099997287 <https://us02web.zoom.us/j/9099997287>
(951) 533-4984 - cell





From clintbradford at mac.com  Sun Aug 16 04:58:51 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2020 21:58:51 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming Presentations - K6LCS
Message-ID: <91934E1E-3104-40D8-9429-99D93CAC1DF9@mac.com>

Clint Bradford K6LCS has booked his ?Work the FM Voice 
Satellites With Minimal Equipment? presentation for the clubs =

09/02/2020 - Garden State ARA, New Jersey
09/14/2020 - North Agusta Belevedere Radio Club
10/27/2020 - Cherryland ARC / Traverse Bay ARC

TBD - Antelope Valley (CA) ARC
TBD - A private presentation fo a Boy Scout troop inDanville, Pennsylvania

These will be Zoom presentations. Everyone is asked to update their 
copies of the Zoom application - by directly visiting Zoom.us <http://zoom.us/>.

Clint Bradford K6LCS
951-533-4984 - cell

/end/


From DCFox at rwglaw.com  Sun Aug 16 19:35:28 2020
From: DCFox at rwglaw.com (D. Craig Fox)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 19:35:28 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Fox Delta ST2 issue
Message-ID: <de9253705629450aa76acad478cf2dab@RWGEX1.RWG.com>

Greetings all. I searched the amsat BB archive but found no answer so posting this. For no apparent reason, my FD st2 connected to my G5400 has just started misbehaving after working great for months. Using W10. It is displaying incorrect AZ, while EL is correct.  It parks the G5400  at 225 deg instead of default 300.  It will show EL in excess of 500+ deg when manually turning the G5400 clockwise. I have the most current driver for my usb-serial cable. Im thinking I need to reset the EPROM but an find no directions on the FD website or internet on how to do this after initial setup.  I will email Dinesh at FD if no answers.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you and 73 from OC DM13

Craig
N6RSX

From peter at magicbug.co.uk  Sun Aug 16 20:20:15 2020
From: peter at magicbug.co.uk (Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL))
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 21:20:15 +0100
Subject: [amsat-bb] Fox Delta ST2 issue
In-Reply-To: <de9253705629450aa76acad478cf2dab@RWGEX1.RWG.com>
References: <de9253705629450aa76acad478cf2dab@RWGEX1.RWG.com>
Message-ID: <CAFvUairy2KXhBu9OdNKp0c4b0zUXosZWxaESEjpyEaN9tYuHQw@mail.gmail.com>

I'd suggest recalibrating it as you did on the first setup as per
Foxdeltas ST2 guide.

Peter, 2M0SQL

On Sun, 16 Aug 2020 at 20:36, D. Craig Fox via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Greetings all. I searched the amsat BB archive but found no answer so posting this. For no apparent reason, my FD st2 connected to my G5400 has just started misbehaving after working great for months. Using W10. It is displaying incorrect AZ, while EL is correct.  It parks the G5400  at 225 deg instead of default 300.  It will show EL in excess of 500+ deg when manually turning the G5400 clockwise. I have the most current driver for my usb-serial cable. Im thinking I need to reset the EPROM but an find no directions on the FD website or internet on how to do this after initial setup.  I will email Dinesh at FD if no answers.
> Any help would be appreciated.
> Thank you and 73 from OC DM13
>
> Craig
> N6RSX
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From charlieray at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 20:29:31 2020
From: charlieray at gmail.com (Charles Reiche)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 16:29:31 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Fox Delta ST2 issue
In-Reply-To: <de9253705629450aa76acad478cf2dab@RWGEX1.RWG.com>
References: <de9253705629450aa76acad478cf2dab@RWGEX1.RWG.com>
Message-ID: <CAMkCmDpDgDUHJAOni6+94yHJpOTpegte86oG9S=0r9LA=9tHyg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Craig,

Do the readings on your yaesu control box AZ meter read correctly or are
they also wacky?
Looking at the circuit diagram, the AZ pot and the output to the plug that
runs to the ST-2 goes through different circuitry to the plug than to the
meter in the control box.
If the control box meter reads correctly, then the problem is probably in
the circuitry that connects to the external plug that goes to the ST-2.

Measure your 5v bus on the interface is actually running at 5v. I had
problem with my voltage regulator (I soldered it in backwards) and did not
have 5v where it needed to be.

Thanks,
Charles Reiche


On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 3:37 PM D. Craig Fox via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Greetings all. I searched the amsat BB archive but found no answer so
> posting this. For no apparent reason, my FD st2 connected to my G5400 has
> just started misbehaving after working great for months. Using W10. It is
> displaying incorrect AZ, while EL is correct.  It parks the G5400  at 225
> deg instead of default 300.  It will show EL in excess of 500+ deg when
> manually turning the G5400 clockwise. I have the most current driver for my
> usb-serial cable. Im thinking I need to reset the EPROM but an find no
> directions on the FD website or internet on how to do this after initial
> setup.  I will email Dinesh at FD if no answers.
> Any help would be appreciated.
> Thank you and 73 from OC DM13
>
> Craig
> N6RSX
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From DCFox at rwglaw.com  Sun Aug 16 21:18:48 2020
From: DCFox at rwglaw.com (D. Craig Fox)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 21:18:48 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Fox Delta ST2 issue- SOLVED at least so far
Message-ID: <2fc570c687464be3bd1ba863cd3026ad@RWGEX1.RWG.com>

Thank you for the prompt replies. As I suspected, re-programming the eprom did the trick. But how to re-program? The critical directions were actually on the FD website for another product. After some research I figured out how to install ?hyper terminal? to be able to communicate directly with the ST2. Apparently this was a utility last included with Windows XP. Several hours later, I had things talking to one another, followed the calibration instructions under the ST2 page, flashed the eprom, and now it?s working as it should on several passes.
Wowsers, that was annoying but very educational.
Thanks again.
73, Craig
N6RSX

From: Charles Reiche <charlieray at gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2020 1:30 PM
To: D. Craig Fox <DCFox at rwglaw.com>; AMSAT BB <Amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Fox Delta ST2 issue

Hi Craig,

Do the readings on your yaesu control box AZ meter read correctly or are they also wacky?
Looking at the circuit diagram, the AZ pot and the output to the plug that runs to the ST-2 goes through different circuitry to the plug than to the meter in the control box.
If the control box meter reads correctly, then the problem is probably in the circuitry that connects to the external plug that goes to the ST-2.

Measure your 5v bus on the interface is actually running at 5v. I had problem with my voltage regulator (I soldered it in backwards) and did not have 5v where it needed to be.

Thanks,
Charles Reiche


On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 3:37 PM D. Craig Fox via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org<mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>> wrote:
Greetings all. I searched the amsat BB archive but found no answer so posting this. For no apparent reason, my FD st2 connected to my G5400 has just started misbehaving after working great for months. Using W10. It is displaying incorrect AZ, while EL is correct.  It parks the G5400  at 225 deg instead of default 300.  It will show EL in excess of 500+ deg when manually turning the G5400 clockwise. I have the most current driver for my usb-serial cable. Im thinking I need to reset the EPROM but an find no directions on the FD website or internet on how to do this after initial setup.  I will email Dinesh at FD if no answers.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you and 73 from OC DM13

Craig
N6RSX
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org<mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


Click here<https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/i91QiYtPM6vGX2PQPOmvUsk03K5IhN5dQQUUlVnR-nxPNiPXGsbQ_HruA7hdFjVgBir7CvfNABH46EHnGWFGZQ==> to report this email as spam.

From DCFox at rwglaw.com  Sun Aug 16 23:38:09 2020
From: DCFox at rwglaw.com (D. Craig Fox)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 23:38:09 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] FW:  Fox Delta ST2 issue- SOLVED at least so far
In-Reply-To: <A2DFF543-8724-4C8C-B661-60EB90DB344E@rwglaw.com>
References: <2fc570c687464be3bd1ba863cd3026ad@RWGEX1.RWG.com>,
	<97733F5E-78F9-4A3F-BB9F-212B84F6C50E@amsat.org>
	<A2DFF543-8724-4C8C-B661-60EB90DB344E@rwglaw.com>
Message-ID: <891089c3f14b4d14b1493c3ea208aab0@RWGEX1.RWG.com>

For Bruce KK5DO, and others who expressed interest in re-programming their Fox Delta ST2 tracker running a G5400/5500:

This first link is for configuring HyperTerminal emulator to talk to the ST2 once HT is downloaded from any number of websites (I didn?t know an emulator from an escalator when I started to troubleshoot my issue this morning).  Apparently if you still have an XP machine it can be found under Windows ?Accessories, Communications?. I only have W10 now so had to start from scratch.

http://www.foxdelta.com/products/minitnc/hyperterminal.pdf


This link is to the actual programming procedure and basic commands once you have Hyper Terminal up and running and connected to the ST2

http://www.foxdelta.com/products/ST2-0417/st2-setup-guide.pdf

Like the author in the second link said, ?it just worked??

73, Craig
N6RSX


From penguin359 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 01:06:59 2020
From: penguin359 at gmail.com (Loren M. Lang)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 18:06:59 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Helping a totally blind ham get started working the
	birds?
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR19MB2429ABE63B931D4C4C213333EE410@MN2PR19MB2429.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MN2PR19MB2429ABE63B931D4C4C213333EE410@MN2PR19MB2429.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CACymvmdnW1Qpa_bkJBLhwDYwA4DncMz8z56G=Oy9d9OoaB=aOg@mail.gmail.com>

I have a few suggestions that might help you get started, but it would be
helpful to have a little more info about yourself. What kind of station do
you have or plan to use? HT? Base station? Do you have a rotor already?

As for the minimum level needed to get into satellites, it does not take
much at all. I have made successful contacts over multiple FM birds using
just my 5W handheld Yaesu radio with a $15 quarter-wave whip
antenna attached and no other hardware. All that was needed was the
knowledge of when to go out and what uplink/downlink frequencies to tune my
radio to.

-Loren
K7IW

Also,

On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 8:03 AM Sean Paul via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Hello all: subject line pretty much says it all. I am in Chattanooga TN &
> want to get started working the satellites. Anyone interested in helping
> me. Please reach on out. Thanks N4SPK
>
> Sean Paul informs y'all from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From penguin359 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 01:12:34 2020
From: penguin359 at gmail.com (Loren M. Lang)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 18:12:34 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Android App for AMSAT Status
Message-ID: <CACymvmfybkhAJqN6CL3MqxpZhDXVRdPrEHbwjEYpFuqYSR7Fow@mail.gmail.com>

It seems like my earlier email attempt might have been blocked due to an
inline image it included.

I've been toying with the idea of implementing an Android App to view and
submit updates to the AMSAT Status page. I've put together a quick mock-up
of what the interface will be for submitting updates will be like. I wanted
to get some preliminary feedback and also get in touch with anyone at AMSAT
to make sure I'm working with the correct acceptable-use policy and API.

Here's a screen shot of the App so far:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d24egqeuiu17ds1/Screenshot_20200816-153642.png?dl=0


If you want to check out the mock interface, it doesn't actually submit
anything yet, but all the fields are present.

http://www.north-winds.org/amsat-status.apk

-Loren
K7IW

ReplyForward

From jfitzgerald at alum.wpi.edu  Mon Aug 17 04:13:39 2020
From: jfitzgerald at alum.wpi.edu (Joseph B. Fitzgerald)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 04:13:39 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Android App for AMSAT Status
In-Reply-To: <CACymvmfybkhAJqN6CL3MqxpZhDXVRdPrEHbwjEYpFuqYSR7Fow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACymvmfybkhAJqN6CL3MqxpZhDXVRdPrEHbwjEYpFuqYSR7Fow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DM5PR22MB082548AAA18265AFE36FF82C875F0@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Accurate, timely submissions to the AMSAT server with status reports are completely acceptable not to mention very much appreciated if they emulate the manual form submission process.

If there is anything we can do to assist drop a note to webmaster at amsat.org

de KM1P Joe


From brennanprice at verizon.net  Mon Aug 17 21:41:02 2020
From: brennanprice at verizon.net (Brennan Price)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 21:41:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballot return date is September 15
References: <1197162912.2805251.1597700462582.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1197162912.2805251.1597700462582@mail.yahoo.com>

All,

Please indulge an election procedure post--with four weeks of balloting remaining, I think a reminder of procedures is warranted.

Ballots for the AMSAT board of directors election must be received by 5 p.m. US Eastern Time on Tuesday, September 15.?If you have received your ballot and wish to vote, please mail your ballot with sufficient time to arrive by this time.

If you have not received your ballot and were a member of AMSAT on July 1, please email me at brennanprice at verizon.net to request a replacement ballot. All such requests that were made by today (Monday, August 17) have been fulfilled no later than today.

A note to non-US based members: The printed return envelope does not specify that the return address is in the United States. The design of the envelope (my effort alone) may be fairly criticized on this basis. Several non-US members have added USA to the printed return address and successfully returned the ballot. This is my recommended remedy, but if for whatever reason it's too late for that (and I know of one such case), I will gladly send a replacement (as I have in said case).

I am verifying envelopes against the voter list and keeping them unopened until the time of counting, when they will be opened face down and separated from the ballot without immediate counting to maintain secrecy. This is a key part of verifying that each ballot going out generates no more than one ballot coming back in. Presumably out of an understandable but self-defeating desire to ensure the secrecy of the ballot beyond this procedure, about ten members have sought to obscure the return address or use a different envelope, either with no return address or a different return address.?

In all but one of those cases, the printed address was insufficiently obscured, or the alternate address was traceable to a member who had not yet voted. The attention required to verify the nonconforming envelope in each case substantially exceeded the attention normally necessary, and actually increased the possibility of me inadvertently discerning the contents without opening the envelope through inspection I would ordinarily forego. Nevertheless, these envelopes have been accepted for eventual accounting.

In the remaining case, postmarked last week in Grand Junction, Colorado, there is no indication on the outside the envelope to permit me to conclude that the ballot is not cumulative of one already returned. As it stands, this is the only envelope out of the several hundred returned thus far that I cannot accept.

If you are that voter mailing from or near Grand Junction, please be in touch so we can remedy. All others, please use the provided return envelope.

I welcome questions.

73,
Brennan Price, N4QX
Secretary
Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation

From aj9n at aol.com  Mon Aug 17 22:30:02 2020
From: aj9n at aol.com (aj9n at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 22:30:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-17 22:30
	UTC
References: <2132002153.2563909.1597703402623.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2132002153.2563909.1597703402623@mail.yahoo.com>


Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-17 22:30 UTC

?

Quick list of scheduled contacts and events:

?

Kopernik Observatory & Science Center, Vestal, NY, direct via K2ZRO 

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be NA1SS

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR 

Contact is go for: Wed 2020-08-19 18:21:55 UTC 85 deg 

Rescheduled again due to ISS hatch closures for leak detection activity.

Watch for live stream starting about 20 to 30 minutes ahead of AOS at: https://youtu.be/1Pwcc2rilz0??

?

Information and Technologies Branch, Department of Education-Queensland Government, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, telebridge via ON4ISS (***)

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be OR4ISS (***) 

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR 

Contact is go for: Mon 2020-08-24 08:09:22 UTC 80 deg (***) 

?

Greenwood Primary School, Greenwood, Western Australia, Australia, telebridge via AB1OC (***)

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be NA1SS (***) 

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR 

Contact is go for: Mon 2020-08-24 09:32:57 UTC 34 deg (***)

?

########################################################################################################################################

A multi-point telebridge contact means that each student will be on the telebridge from their own home.

*************************************************

?

ARISS is very aware of the impact that COVID-19 is having on schools and the public in general.? As such, we may have last minute cancellations or postponements of school contacts.? As always, I will try to provide everyone with near-real-time updates.? 

?

The following schools have now been postponed or cancelled due to COVID-19:? 

?

Postponed:

No new schools

?

Cancelled:

No new schools

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

?

Watch for future COVID-19 related announcements here also.

?

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

?

Note, all times are approximate. ?It is recommended that you do your own 

orbital prediction?or start listening about 10 minutes before the listed 

time. 

All dates and times listed follow International Standard ISO 8601 date and 

time format YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS

?

The complete schedule page has been updated as of?2020-08-17 22:30 UTC. (***)

Here you will find a listing of all scheduled?school contacts, and 

questions, other ISS related websites, IRLP and Echolink websites, and 

instructions for any contact that may be streamed live.

?

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf 

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.txt 

?

?

The successful school list has been updated as of 2020-08-11 16:30 UTC.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/Successful_ARISS_schools.rtf 

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

?

Message to US Educators

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States) 

?

The Proposal Window of February 1, 2020 to March 31, 2020 has now closed.

?

For future proposal information and more details such as expectations, proposal guidelines and proposal form, and dates and times of Information Webinars, go to www.ariss.org.

?

Please direct any questions to?ariss.us.education at gmail.com.

?

About ARISS:

?

Amateur Radio on the International Space Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radio societies and the space agencies that support the International Space Station (ISS).? In the United States, sponsors are the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio Relay League (ARRL), the ISS National Lab and National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEAM) topics by organizing scheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS and students in classrooms or public forms. Before and during these radio contacts, students, educators, parents, and communities learn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. For more information, see www.ariss.org.

?

********************************************************************************

ARISS Contact Applications (Europe, Africa and the Middle East)

?

Schools and Youth organizations in Europe, Africa and the Middle East interested in setting up an ARISS radio contact with an astronaut on board the International Space Station are invited to submit an application from September to October and from February to April.

Please refer to details and the application form at www.ariss-eu.org/school-contacts.? Applications should be addressed by email to:? school.selection.manager at ariss-eu.org

?

ARISS Contact Applications (Canada, Central and South America, Asia and Australia and Russia)

?

Organizations outside the United States can apply for an ARISS contact by filling out an application.? Please direct questions to the appropriate regional representative listed below. If your country is not specifically listed, send your questions to the nearest ARISS Region listed. If you are unsure which address to use, please send your question to the ARISS-Canada representative; they will forward your question to the appropriate coordinator.

?

For the application, go to:? https://www.ariss.org/ariss-application.html.

ARISS-Canada and the Americas, except USA: Steve McFarlane, VE3TBD email to: ve3tbd at gmail.com

ARISS-Japan, Asia, Pacific and Australia: Satoshi Yasuda, 7M3TJZ email to: ariss at iaru-r3.org, Japan Amateur Radio League (JARL) https://www.jarl.org/

ARISS-Russia: Soyuz Radioljubitelei Rossii (SRR) https://srr.ru/

?

?

******************************************************************************

ARISS is always glad to receive listener reports for the above contacts.? ARISS thanks everyone in advance for their assistance.? Feel free to send your reports to aj9n at amsat.org or aj9n at aol.com.

?

Listen for the ISS on the downlink of 145.8? MHz.

?

*******************************************************************************

?

All ARISS contacts are made via the Kenwood radio unless otherwise noted.

?

*******************************************************************************


Several of you have sent me emails asking about the RAC ARISS website and 
not being able to get in. ?That has now been changed to https://www.ariss.org/

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

****************************************************************************

Looking for something new to do?? How about receiving DATV from the ISS?? Please note that the HamTV system has been brought back to earth for troubleshooting.? Please monitor ARISS-EU or ARISS-ON for the very latest news on the troubleshooting efforts.? 

?

If interested, then please go to the ARISS-EU website for complete details.? Look for the buttons indicating Ham Video.???????????? 

?

http://www.ariss-eu.org/

?

If you need some assistance, ARISS mentor Kerry N6IZW, might be able to provide some insight.? Contact Kerry at kbanke at sbcglobal.net

?

?

The HamTV webpage:? https://www.amsat-on.be/hamtv-summary/

?

?

****************************************************************************
ARISS congratulations the following mentors who have now mentored over 100 schools: 

?

Francesco IK?WGF with 140

Satoshi 7M3TJZ with 138 

Sergey RV3DR with 135 

Gaston ON4WF with 123

?

****************************************************************************

The webpages listed below were all reviewed for accuracy. Out of date 

webpages were removed, and new ones have been added.? If there are additional 

ARISS websites I need to know about, please let me know.

?

?

?

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school events is 1394. 

Each school counts as 1 event.?????????????????????????????????? 

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school contacts is 1327. 

Each contact may have multiple schools sharing the same time slot.

Total number of ARISS supported terrestrial contacts is 48. 

?

A complete year by year breakdown of the contacts may be found in the 

file.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf

?

Please feel free to contact me if more detailed statistics are needed.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



The following US states and entities have never had an ARISS contact:
South Dakota, Wyoming, American?Samoa, Guam, Northern Marianas Islands, and the Virgin Islands.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

?

QSL information may be found at:

https://www.ariss.org/qsl-cards.html

?

ISS callsigns: DP?ISS, IR?ISS, NA1SS, OR4ISS, RS?ISS

?

****************************************************************************



Frequency chart for packet, voice, and crossband repeater modes showing 

Doppler correction as of 2005-07-29 04:00 UTC

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/ISS_frequencies_and_Doppler_correction.rtf



Check out the Zoho reports of the ARISS contacts

?

https://reports.zoho.com/ZDBDataSheetView.cc?DBID=412218000000020415

****************************************************************************

?

Exp. 62 now on orbit 

Chris Cassidy KF5KDR

Anatoli Ivanishin

Ivan Vagner

****************************************************************************

73,

Charlie?Sufana AJ9N
One of the ARISS operation team mentors

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?



From grsakai5120 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 18 00:14:07 2020
From: grsakai5120 at yahoo.com (George Sakai)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 00:14:07 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT GridMaster Award Application Process
References: <1400775403.2866599.1597709647409.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1400775403.2866599.1597709647409@mail.yahoo.com>

Bruce,
I sent you two e-emails regarding AMSAT GridMaster Award process (first one on July 24 and second one on August 10).? I have not received any response from you.? Are you having problems receiving e-mails ?
George Sakai, N3GS

From wizardofzid at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 00:46:28 2020
From: wizardofzid at gmail.com (Russ Kinner)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 17:46:28 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Getting on Jan satellites
Message-ID: <qn8rc836o4pl6kjbm57585d6.1597711588252@email.android.com>

I've used what I had on hand, a FT7900 and a dual band mobile Diamond antenna, both items I've had to operate from my car for 10 years.  I have built an eggbeater for both bands and the fading on high passes went away but it just wasn't very efficient and I went back to the mobile antenna.  The 1/2 wave design doesn't need a ground plane, it works about the same with or without radials.
One thing I'm contemplating is a easy to adjust angle mount so I can be close to a right angle on different elevation passes.  Not sure exactly how I'll do that but it may help and I would not need to point a beam.  
A tripod if you use a directional antenna can help.  Even a light weight antenna can get heavy for 15 minutes and if it's windy....
There is a zoom presentation available on this topic, a link is provided in other amsat-bb messages.  
In general, get the frequencies and pl tone set in your rig and listen.  Late night passes are often easier to start operating with less competition.  I've had pass with only 2 other stations and then others where no one hears me at all.  Don't get discouraged, there will be a pass where everyone calls you one after another.  I've had a pass with 6 contacts - once in a while you find several stations that need your grid and you knock them off in short order.

Rusty, WA8ZID

From n0jy at amsat.org  Tue Aug 18 02:47:37 2020
From: n0jy at amsat.org (Jerry Buxton)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 21:47:37 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Thinking and thanking...Tony AA2TX
In-Reply-To: <CAPRXzyr-_EKNqELfMkgmfW1-JH3zk_5qmtJPV2ihwFW-4+J0Sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPRXzyr-_EKNqELfMkgmfW1-JH3zk_5qmtJPV2ihwFW-4+J0Sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0242dfd8-2187-70fe-777a-1fbcb9c50ed4@amsat.org>

Thanks for sharing some memories and history Mark, and fittingly, on
Tony's birthday.?

It is a weird coincidence, as I was not online today to see anything
mentioning Tony until just now.? This morning I thought of Tony and
wondered how many members have the recollection or knowledge of what
Tony did to bring AMSAT into the CubeSat era.? Much of the discussion of
Fox-1 birds seems to be related or remembering of events of the past
year or maybe two, and some of what is said seems to have no
understanding of how we got here.

My thoughts were of his family as well, looking forward and waiting to
let them know that the bonus satellite brought about by Tony's work was
headed out of my hands and up to orbit? Although it lacks "Veronica" as
the previous four had/have, it is still a Fox-1.? Many of Tony's family
were with us at the launch of Fox-1A almost five years ago now and that
was a feeling of family that also shows a part of the overall commitment
that goes into making the satellites that is never publicly mentioned or
seen, but is important in fueling the work we do.

A photo of the launch party can be seen in the gallery on my website,
and I put it up here too:
http://home.n0jy.org/images/Fox-1A_Launch_Party.jpg

Jerry Buxton, N?JY

On 8/14/2020 13:43, Mark L. Hammond via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> About a week ago, Facebook alerted me that it was Tony AA2TX Monteiro's
> birthday.  I'll admit it caught me off guard, yet it was really fun
> thinking about the wonderful work he did for us, AMSAT, as the "father of
> the Fox satellite family."  He was such a neat and brilliant guy.   So over
> the past several days I have been thinking of him, and being thankful for
> him.  It brought back memories of a HamRadioNow.TV interview from Dayton
> Hamvention in 2013, where Tony was VP for Engineering, and I was the first
> VP for Educational Relations.   This is before any of the Fox birds were
> built and buttoned up for launch.   If you're curious, and you never had
> the chance to meet Tony (or even if you did!!) you might enjoy watching the
> video and hearing about the vision and planning; note that the interview
> starts about 5 mins into the recording.   It was touching for me,
> personally.
>
> https://www.amsat.org/hamradionow-amsat-fox-1-interview-now-online/
>
> It took Jerry N0JY Buxton as the "new VP" and friends stepping up to
> fulfill Tony's vision.   So I'm thankful for all of you that did all of
> this.  Far too many to count.  And the "bonus bird" Fox-1E wasn't even part
> of Tony's original vision...but I can't wait to have that one flown and
> operational "someday soon" as well!
>
> If you work AO-91 or AO-92 this weekend, maybe you'll also be "thinking and
> thanking" Tony AA2TX, too!
>
> 73,
>
> Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
> AMSAT Director and Command Station
> _______________________________________________
>


From w3ab at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 18 03:16:40 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 20:16:40 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Thinking and thanking...Tony AA2TX
In-Reply-To: <0242dfd8-2187-70fe-777a-1fbcb9c50ed4@amsat.org>
References: <CAPRXzyr-_EKNqELfMkgmfW1-JH3zk_5qmtJPV2ihwFW-4+J0Sw@mail.gmail.com>
	<0242dfd8-2187-70fe-777a-1fbcb9c50ed4@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <bf151ff2-d3c3-4478-a233-a4b0fd7a2fe7@yahoo.com>

Jerry, thanks for those memories, and the picture.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Aug 17, 2020, 19:52, at 19:52, Jerry Buxton via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>Thanks for sharing some memories and history Mark, and fittingly, on
>Tony's birthday.?
>
>It is a weird coincidence, as I was not online today to see anything
>mentioning Tony until just now.? This morning I thought of Tony and
>wondered how many members have the recollection or knowledge of what
>Tony did to bring AMSAT into the CubeSat era.? Much of the discussion
>of
>Fox-1 birds seems to be related or remembering of events of the past
>year or maybe two, and some of what is said seems to have no
>understanding of how we got here.
>
>My thoughts were of his family as well, looking forward and waiting to
>let them know that the bonus satellite brought about by Tony's work was
>headed out of my hands and up to orbit? Although it lacks "Veronica" as
>the previous four had/have, it is still a Fox-1.? Many of Tony's family
>were with us at the launch of Fox-1A almost five years ago now and that
>was a feeling of family that also shows a part of the overall
>commitment
>that goes into making the satellites that is never publicly mentioned
>or
>seen, but is important in fueling the work we do.
>
>A photo of the launch party can be seen in the gallery on my website,
>and I put it up here too:
>http://home.n0jy.org/images/Fox-1A_Launch_Party.jpg
>
>Jerry Buxton, N?JY
>
>On 8/14/2020 13:43, Mark L. Hammond via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>> About a week ago, Facebook alerted me that it was Tony AA2TX
>Monteiro's
>> birthday.  I'll admit it caught me off guard, yet it was really fun
>> thinking about the wonderful work he did for us, AMSAT, as the
>"father of
>> the Fox satellite family."  He was such a neat and brilliant guy.  
>So over
>> the past several days I have been thinking of him, and being thankful
>for
>> him.  It brought back memories of a HamRadioNow.TV interview from
>Dayton
>> Hamvention in 2013, where Tony was VP for Engineering, and I was the
>first
>> VP for Educational Relations.   This is before any of the Fox birds
>were
>> built and buttoned up for launch.   If you're curious, and you never
>had
>> the chance to meet Tony (or even if you did!!) you might enjoy
>watching the
>> video and hearing about the vision and planning; note that the
>interview
>> starts about 5 mins into the recording.   It was touching for me,
>> personally.
>>
>> https://www.amsat.org/hamradionow-amsat-fox-1-interview-now-online/
>>
>> It took Jerry N0JY Buxton as the "new VP" and friends stepping up to
>> fulfill Tony's vision.   So I'm thankful for all of you that did all
>of
>> this.  Far too many to count.  And the "bonus bird" Fox-1E wasn't
>even part
>> of Tony's original vision...but I can't wait to have that one flown
>and
>> operational "someday soon" as well!
>>
>> If you work AO-91 or AO-92 this weekend, maybe you'll also be
>"thinking and
>> thanking" Tony AA2TX, too!
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
>> AMSAT Director and Command Station
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From k9jkm at comcast.net  Tue Aug 18 03:39:30 2020
From: k9jkm at comcast.net (JoAnne K9JKM)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 22:39:30 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Thinking and thanking...Tony AA2TX
In-Reply-To: <0242dfd8-2187-70fe-777a-1fbcb9c50ed4@amsat.org>
References: <CAPRXzyr-_EKNqELfMkgmfW1-JH3zk_5qmtJPV2ihwFW-4+J0Sw@mail.gmail.com>
	<0242dfd8-2187-70fe-777a-1fbcb9c50ed4@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <5F3B4D72.9050609@comcast.net>

Mark Hammond, N8MH noted:

 > About a week ago, Facebook alerted me that it was Tony AA2TX Monteiro's
 > birthday. I'll admit it caught me off guard, yet it was really fun think-
 > ing about the wonderful work he did for us, AMSAT, as the "father of the
 > Fox satellite family."

AMSAT members can access the March/April 2014 AMSAT Journal in the members-
only archive, to read the memorial to Tony written by Barry Baines, 
WD4ASW -
Anthony ?Tony? J. Monteiro, AA2TX - Silent Key (begins on page 7).

https://launch.amsat.org/The_AMSAT_Journal

-- 
73 de JoAnne K9JKM
k9jkm at amsat.org


From aj9n at aol.com  Tue Aug 18 14:23:37 2020
From: aj9n at aol.com (aj9n at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 14:23:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-18 14:00
	UTC
References: <1211246565.2792566.1597760617575.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1211246565.2792566.1597760617575@mail.yahoo.com>


Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-18 14:00 UTC

?

Quick list of scheduled contacts and events:

?

Kopernik Observatory & Science Center, Vestal, NY, direct via K2ZRO 

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be NA1SS

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR 

Contact is go for: Wed 2020-08-19 18:21:55 UTC 85 deg 

Rescheduled again due to ISS hatch closures for leak detection activity.

Watch for live stream starting about 20 to 30 minutes ahead of AOS at: https://youtu.be/1Pwcc2rilz0??

?

Information and Technologies Branch, Department of Education-Queensland Government, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, telebridge via ON4ISS

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be OR4ISS

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR 

Contact is go for: Mon 2020-08-24 08:09:22 UTC 80 deg

?

Greenwood Primary School, Greenwood, Western Australia, Australia, telebridge via AB1OC

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be NA1SS

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR 

The school has elected to cancel the contact.? (***)

?

########################################################################################################################################

?

A multi-point telebridge contact means that each student will be on the telebridge from their own home.

*************************************************

?

ARISS is very aware of the impact that COVID-19 is having on schools and the public in general.? As such, we may have last minute cancellations or postponements of school contacts.? As always, I will try to provide everyone with near-real-time updates.? 

?

The following schools have now been postponed or cancelled due to COVID-19:? 

?

Postponed:

No new schools

?

Cancelled:

No new schools

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

?

Watch for future COVID-19 related announcements here also.

?

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

?

Note, all times are approximate. ?It is recommended that you do your own 

orbital prediction?or start listening about 10 minutes before the listed 

time. 

All dates and times listed follow International Standard ISO 8601 date and 

time format YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS

?

The complete schedule page has been updated as of?2020-08-18 14:00 UTC. (***)

Here you will find a listing of all scheduled?school contacts, and 

questions, other ISS related websites, IRLP and Echolink websites, and 

instructions for any contact that may be streamed live.

?

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf 

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.txt 

?

?

The successful school list has been updated as of 2020-08-11 16:30 UTC.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/Successful_ARISS_schools.rtf 

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

?

Message to US Educators

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States) 

?

The Proposal Window of February 1, 2020 to March 31, 2020 has now closed.

?

For future proposal information and more details such as expectations, proposal guidelines and proposal form, and dates and times of Information Webinars, go to www.ariss.org.

?

Please direct any questions to?ariss.us.education at gmail.com.

?

About ARISS:

?

Amateur Radio on the International Space Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radio societies and the space agencies that support the International Space Station (ISS).? In the United States, sponsors are the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio Relay League (ARRL), the ISS National Lab and National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEAM) topics by organizing scheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS and students in classrooms or public forms. Before and during these radio contacts, students, educators, parents, and communities learn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. For more information, see www.ariss.org.

?

********************************************************************************

ARISS Contact Applications (Europe, Africa and the Middle East)

?

Schools and Youth organizations in Europe, Africa and the Middle East interested in setting up an ARISS radio contact with an astronaut on board the International Space Station are invited to submit an application from September to October and from February to April.

Please refer to details and the application form at www.ariss-eu.org/school-contacts.? Applications should be addressed by email to:? school.selection.manager at ariss-eu.org

?

ARISS Contact Applications (Canada, Central and South America, Asia and Australia and Russia)

?

Organizations outside the United States can apply for an ARISS contact by filling out an application.? Please direct questions to the appropriate regional representative listed below. If your country is not specifically listed, send your questions to the nearest ARISS Region listed. If you are unsure which address to use, please send your question to the ARISS-Canada representative; they will forward your question to the appropriate coordinator.

?

For the application, go to:? https://www.ariss.org/ariss-application.html.

ARISS-Canada and the Americas, except USA: Steve McFarlane, VE3TBD email to: ve3tbd at gmail.com

ARISS-Japan, Asia, Pacific and Australia: Satoshi Yasuda, 7M3TJZ email to: ariss at iaru-r3.org, Japan Amateur Radio League (JARL) https://www.jarl.org/

ARISS-Russia: Soyuz Radioljubitelei Rossii (SRR) https://srr.ru/

?

?

******************************************************************************

ARISS is always glad to receive listener reports for the above contacts.? ARISS thanks everyone in advance for their assistance.? Feel free to send your reports to aj9n at amsat.org or aj9n at aol.com.

?

Listen for the ISS on the downlink of 145.8? MHz.

?

*******************************************************************************

?

All ARISS contacts are made via the Kenwood radio unless otherwise noted.

?

*******************************************************************************


Several of you have sent me emails asking about the RAC ARISS website and 
not being able to get in. ?That has now been changed to https://www.ariss.org/

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

****************************************************************************

Looking for something new to do?? How about receiving DATV from the ISS?? Please note that the HamTV system has been brought back to earth for troubleshooting.? Please monitor ARISS-EU or ARISS-ON for the very latest news on the troubleshooting efforts.? 

?

If interested, then please go to the ARISS-EU website for complete details.? Look for the buttons indicating Ham Video.???????????? 

?

http://www.ariss-eu.org/

?

If you need some assistance, ARISS mentor Kerry N6IZW, might be able to provide some insight.? Contact Kerry at kbanke at sbcglobal.net

?

?

The HamTV webpage:? https://www.amsat-on.be/hamtv-summary/

?

?

****************************************************************************
ARISS congratulations the following mentors who have now mentored over 100 schools: 

?

Francesco IK?WGF with 140

Satoshi 7M3TJZ with 138 

Sergey RV3DR with 135 

Gaston ON4WF with 123

?

****************************************************************************

The webpages listed below were all reviewed for accuracy. Out of date 

webpages were removed, and new ones have been added.? If there are additional 

ARISS websites I need to know about, please let me know.

?

?

?

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school events is 1394. 

Each school counts as 1 event.?????????????????????????????????? 

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school contacts is 1327. 

Each contact may have multiple schools sharing the same time slot.

Total number of ARISS supported terrestrial contacts is 48. 

?

A complete year by year breakdown of the contacts may be found in the 

file.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf

?

Please feel free to contact me if more detailed statistics are needed.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



The following US states and entities have never had an ARISS contact:
South Dakota, Wyoming, American?Samoa, Guam, Northern Marianas Islands, and the Virgin Islands.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

?

QSL information may be found at:

https://www.ariss.org/qsl-cards.html

?

ISS callsigns: DP?ISS, IR?ISS, NA1SS, OR4ISS, RS?ISS

?

****************************************************************************



Frequency chart for packet, voice, and crossband repeater modes showing 

Doppler correction as of 2005-07-29 04:00 UTC

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/ISS_frequencies_and_Doppler_correction.rtf



Check out the Zoho reports of the ARISS contacts

?

https://reports.zoho.com/ZDBDataSheetView.cc?DBID=412218000000020415

****************************************************************************

?

Exp. 62 now on orbit 

Chris Cassidy KF5KDR

Anatoli Ivanishin

Ivan Vagner

****************************************************************************

73,

Charlie?Sufana AJ9N
One of the ARISS operation team mentors

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?



From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:05:05 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 09:05:05 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR
Message-ID: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>

Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR

https://openresearch.institute/2020/08/18/cj-determination-open-source-satellite-work-is-free-of-itar/

The United States Department of State has ruled favorably on Open Research
Institute's commodity jurisdiction request, finding that specified
?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave Broadband Communications
System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio Use? is definitely not
subject to State Department jurisdiction under ITAR, the International
Traffic in Arms Regulations. This is an important step toward reducing the
burden of regulations restricting international cooperation on amateur
satellite projects, which have impeded engineering work by amateurs in the
United States for decades.

Export regulations divide both technical information and actual hardware
into three categories. The most heavily restricted technologies fall under
ITAR, which is administered by the State Department. Technologies subject
to more routine restrictions fall under EAR, the Export Administration
Regulations, administered by the Department of Commerce. Technologies that
are not subject to either set of regulations are not restricted for export.

On 20 February 2020, Open Research Institute (ORI) filed a Commodity
Jurisdiction (CJ) Request with the US State Department, seeking to
establish that key technologies for amateur radio are not subject to State
Department jurisdiction. ?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave
Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio
Use? was assigned the case number CJ0003120. On 11 August 2020, the case
received a successful final determination: the technology is not subject to
State Department jurisdiction. This is the best possible outcome of a CJ
request.

The Final Determination letter can be found at
https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/08/CJ-0003120-Final-Determination-Letter.pdf
.

Under this determination, the technologies are subject to the EAR. The next
step is to submit a classification request to the Commerce Department. ORI
anticipates that the Commerce Department will find that these technologies
are unrestricted under the carve-out for open source in the EAR.

Open Research Institute (ORI) is a non-profit research and development
organization which provides all of its work to the general public under the
principles of Open Source and Open Access to Research.

This work was accomplished by a team of dedicated and competent open source
volunteers. The effort was initiated by Bruce Perens K6BP and lead by
Michelle Thompson W5NYV.

Open Research Institute developed the ideas behind the Commodity
Jurisdiction request, hired Thomsen and Burke LLP (https://t-b.com/) for
expert legal advice, organized the revisions of the document, and invited
organizations and individuals with amateur satellite service interests to
join or support the request.

ORI thanks Libre Space Foundation and Dr. Daniel Estevez for providing
their subject matter expertise and written testimony, and JAMSAT for
helpful encouragement and support.

The legal costs were fully reimbursed with a generous grant from Amateur
Radio Digital Communications (ARDC). See
https://www.ampr.org/grants/grant-open-research-institute/.

ARDC and ORI share a vision of clearly establishing open source as the best
and safest way to accomplish technical volunteer work in amateur radio.
This final determination letter provides solid support for that vision. The
determination enables the development of implementation guidelines that
will allow free international collaboration.

This clears the path for a number of interesting projects facilitating new
methods for terrestrial and satellite communications, opening the door to
robust global digital amateur communications.

Questions and inquiries to ori at openresearch.institute

From jeff30339 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:55:57 2020
From: jeff30339 at gmail.com (Jeff Johns)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 11:55:57 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
Message-ID: <B4B76007-6561-42E2-8DB9-5C34B77F442D@gmail.com>

Good job! 

Jeff WE4B 
http://we4bravo.com 

> On Aug 18, 2020, at 11:29 AM, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 

From jean.marc.momple at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 17:34:47 2020
From: jean.marc.momple at gmail.com (Jean Marc Momple)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 21:34:47 +0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Please advise
Message-ID: <4786F7B2-C988-43F7-965C-5747A89B1AEC@gmail.com>

Hi Michelle,

I just receive the ballot and wish to have your personal advices for whom to vote (surely not the legacy team), being quite far and not knowing the OM personally.

More I really believe that the organization need a shake and this will be my vote, but wish to have a team in place hopefully lead by you or someone you will work with serenity. Please indicate and recommend to me for whom I should vote for to make the change and a real working Board..

Make the change and bring AMSAT to new heights Madam, my personal wish and dream is to get either HEO's or GEO?s for worldwide coverage, more unite the different AMSAT organizations worldwide for a common vision so that all cents we spent are in line with that vision/common goal (my 1 cent input).

Also wish you and your team the best for this election.

73




Jean Marc (3B8DU)

AMSAT Ambassador
Member of AMSAT NA & DL
Member of MARS
IARU Responsible operator for MIR-SAT1, the first 3B8 satellite which will be a HAM one in orbit early next year.
Driving HAM and satellite operations in the region (Indian Ocean, FR Reunion Is. and 3B8) with much success for some years.
Etc? List just too long

 

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 18:07:04 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 11:07:04 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Please advise
In-Reply-To: <4786F7B2-C988-43F7-965C-5747A89B1AEC@gmail.com>
References: <4786F7B2-C988-43F7-965C-5747A89B1AEC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2Ue_=qfmewzgWi_PWK=JQjG2EN2aRGEGwbD8eCPOa9tZw@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you Jean Marc! We are trying our best.

I recommend Howie DeFelice, Bob McGwier, and Jeff Johns.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 10:56 AM Jean Marc Momple via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Hi Michelle,
>
> I just receive the ballot and wish to have your personal advices for whom
> to vote (surely not the legacy team), being quite far and not knowing the
> OM personally.
>
> More I really believe that the organization need a shake and this will be
> my vote, but wish to have a team in place hopefully lead by you or someone
> you will work with serenity. Please indicate and recommend to me for whom I
> should vote for to make the change and a real working Board..
>
> Make the change and bring AMSAT to new heights Madam, my personal wish and
> dream is to get either HEO's or GEO?s for worldwide coverage, more unite
> the different AMSAT organizations worldwide for a common vision so that all
> cents we spent are in line with that vision/common goal (my 1 cent input).
>
> Also wish you and your team the best for this election.
>
> 73
>
>
>
>
> Jean Marc (3B8DU)
>
> AMSAT Ambassador
> Member of AMSAT NA & DL
> Member of MARS
> IARU Responsible operator for MIR-SAT1, the first 3B8 satellite which will
> be a HAM one in orbit early next year.
> Driving HAM and satellite operations in the region (Indian Ocean, FR
> Reunion Is. and 3B8) with much success for some years.
> Etc? List just too long
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From jim at k6ccc.org  Tue Aug 18 18:15:10 2020
From: jim at k6ccc.org (Jim Walls)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 11:15:10 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
 ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <077bf4f4-0f32-0d6b-50d0-f961fac63f40@k6ccc.org>

On 08/18/2020 09:05, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR
>
> https://openresearch.institute/2020/08/18/cj-determination-open-source-satellite-work-is-free-of-itar/
>
<snip>

Great news!

-- 
73
-------------------------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
jim at k6ccc.org
Ofc:  818-548-4804
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395


From bruce at perens.com  Tue Aug 18 18:18:15 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 11:18:15 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] A New AMSAT Free From Worries About ITAR!
In-Reply-To: <B4B76007-6561-42E2-8DB9-5C34B77F442D@gmail.com>
References: <B4B76007-6561-42E2-8DB9-5C34B77F442D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOs+tcA0VhfYqLJhMFsXjnhUeUtD+w=o+diJwF8Coj+ftw@mail.gmail.com>

The United States Department of Defense has ruled that the ORI satellite
program using the ITAR/EAR strategy
<https://openresearch.institute/itar-and-ear-strategy/> that I developed
and have been promoting is not subject to ITAR. ORI will now obtain a
ruling from Department of Commerce regarding the Export Administration
Regulations (the EAR). Commerce is expected find that the program is not
subject to the EAR for the same reasons that Defense found it not subject
to ITAR - portions of both laws that exempt public knowledge.

AMSAT now has a path forward: we can operate our development under the same
strategy, and be free of worry about ITAR. We can admit anyone we want to a
project. The cost is abandoning proprietary technology and NDAs. The
benefit will be greater, since we can share development with other national
AMSAT organizations, and other organizations such as LibreSpace, without
fear.

I'm presently working on my Debconf paper and video, and will write a
compliance manual after that to assist projects in carrying out the
ITAR/EAR strategy.

    Thanks

    Bruce

From rich at ourowndomain.com  Tue Aug 18 21:56:15 2020
From: rich at ourowndomain.com (Rich Gopstein)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:56:15 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANsNeaorbVqBAi7+XeMRu6+81_5gybm7jRfdvaXCxQAdb+iRxg@mail.gmail.com>

Michelle,

That's great news, but isn't that ruling only applicable to the specific
system that you asked about (digital microwave broadband...)?  It's not a
general finding that applies to anything else, right?

Rich, KD2CQ






On Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 12:24 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR
>
>
> https://openresearch.institute/2020/08/18/cj-determination-open-source-satellite-work-is-free-of-itar/
>
> The United States Department of State has ruled favorably on Open Research
> Institute's commodity jurisdiction request, finding that specified
> ?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave Broadband Communications
> System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio Use? is definitely not
> subject to State Department jurisdiction under ITAR, the International
> Traffic in Arms Regulations. This is an important step toward reducing the
> burden of regulations restricting international cooperation on amateur
> satellite projects, which have impeded engineering work by amateurs in the
> United States for decades.
>
> Export regulations divide both technical information and actual hardware
> into three categories. The most heavily restricted technologies fall under
> ITAR, which is administered by the State Department. Technologies subject
> to more routine restrictions fall under EAR, the Export Administration
> Regulations, administered by the Department of Commerce. Technologies that
> are not subject to either set of regulations are not restricted for export.
>
> On 20 February 2020, Open Research Institute (ORI) filed a Commodity
> Jurisdiction (CJ) Request with the US State Department, seeking to
> establish that key technologies for amateur radio are not subject to State
> Department jurisdiction. ?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave
> Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio
> Use? was assigned the case number CJ0003120. On 11 August 2020, the case
> received a successful final determination: the technology is not subject to
> State Department jurisdiction. This is the best possible outcome of a CJ
> request.
>
> The Final Determination letter can be found at
>
> https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/08/CJ-0003120-Final-Determination-Letter.pdf
> .
>
> Under this determination, the technologies are subject to the EAR. The next
> step is to submit a classification request to the Commerce Department. ORI
> anticipates that the Commerce Department will find that these technologies
> are unrestricted under the carve-out for open source in the EAR.
>
> Open Research Institute (ORI) is a non-profit research and development
> organization which provides all of its work to the general public under the
> principles of Open Source and Open Access to Research.
>
> This work was accomplished by a team of dedicated and competent open source
> volunteers. The effort was initiated by Bruce Perens K6BP and lead by
> Michelle Thompson W5NYV.
>
> Open Research Institute developed the ideas behind the Commodity
> Jurisdiction request, hired Thomsen and Burke LLP (https://t-b.com/) for
> expert legal advice, organized the revisions of the document, and invited
> organizations and individuals with amateur satellite service interests to
> join or support the request.
>
> ORI thanks Libre Space Foundation and Dr. Daniel Estevez for providing
> their subject matter expertise and written testimony, and JAMSAT for
> helpful encouragement and support.
>
> The legal costs were fully reimbursed with a generous grant from Amateur
> Radio Digital Communications (ARDC). See
> https://www.ampr.org/grants/grant-open-research-institute/.
>
> ARDC and ORI share a vision of clearly establishing open source as the best
> and safest way to accomplish technical volunteer work in amateur radio.
> This final determination letter provides solid support for that vision. The
> determination enables the development of implementation guidelines that
> will allow free international collaboration.
>
> This clears the path for a number of interesting projects facilitating new
> methods for terrestrial and satellite communications, opening the door to
> robust global digital amateur communications.
>
> Questions and inquiries to ori at openresearch.institute
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From bruce at perens.com  Tue Aug 18 22:18:08 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 15:18:08 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CANsNeaorbVqBAi7+XeMRu6+81_5gybm7jRfdvaXCxQAdb+iRxg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeaorbVqBAi7+XeMRu6+81_5gybm7jRfdvaXCxQAdb+iRxg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOtDSAuNCLbw8XuXL96Xhy6bh9xnbrA13M1Mpc_gieKghQ@mail.gmail.com>

Rich,

The most important thing here is that the DoD finding is *not permission* -
it is a finding that your project wasn't *ever* subject to ITAR. This is
thus useful to other projects that use the same Open Source strategy.

A finding is useful for risk-reduction, in that you can wave it at the
court and annoying FBI folks (they have harassed AMSAT developers in the
past) and you can use this one as a precedent if you are making a request
for another program in which you use the same strategies.

    Thanks

    Bruce


On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 2:59 PM Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Michelle,
>
> That's great news, but isn't that ruling only applicable to the specific
> system that you asked about (digital microwave broadband...)?  It's not a
> general finding that applies to anything else, right?
>
> Rich, KD2CQ
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 12:24 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR
> >
> >
> >
> https://openresearch.institute/2020/08/18/cj-determination-open-source-satellite-work-is-free-of-itar/
> >
> > The United States Department of State has ruled favorably on Open
> Research
> > Institute's commodity jurisdiction request, finding that specified
> > ?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave Broadband
> Communications
> > System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio Use? is definitely not
> > subject to State Department jurisdiction under ITAR, the International
> > Traffic in Arms Regulations. This is an important step toward reducing
> the
> > burden of regulations restricting international cooperation on amateur
> > satellite projects, which have impeded engineering work by amateurs in
> the
> > United States for decades.
> >
> > Export regulations divide both technical information and actual hardware
> > into three categories. The most heavily restricted technologies fall
> under
> > ITAR, which is administered by the State Department. Technologies subject
> > to more routine restrictions fall under EAR, the Export Administration
> > Regulations, administered by the Department of Commerce. Technologies
> that
> > are not subject to either set of regulations are not restricted for
> export.
> >
> > On 20 February 2020, Open Research Institute (ORI) filed a Commodity
> > Jurisdiction (CJ) Request with the US State Department, seeking to
> > establish that key technologies for amateur radio are not subject to
> State
> > Department jurisdiction. ?Information and Software for a Digital
> Microwave
> > Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio
> > Use? was assigned the case number CJ0003120. On 11 August 2020, the case
> > received a successful final determination: the technology is not subject
> to
> > State Department jurisdiction. This is the best possible outcome of a CJ
> > request.
> >
> > The Final Determination letter can be found at
> >
> >
> https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/08/CJ-0003120-Final-Determination-Letter.pdf
> > .
> >
> > Under this determination, the technologies are subject to the EAR. The
> next
> > step is to submit a classification request to the Commerce Department.
> ORI
> > anticipates that the Commerce Department will find that these
> technologies
> > are unrestricted under the carve-out for open source in the EAR.
> >
> > Open Research Institute (ORI) is a non-profit research and development
> > organization which provides all of its work to the general public under
> the
> > principles of Open Source and Open Access to Research.
> >
> > This work was accomplished by a team of dedicated and competent open
> source
> > volunteers. The effort was initiated by Bruce Perens K6BP and lead by
> > Michelle Thompson W5NYV.
> >
> > Open Research Institute developed the ideas behind the Commodity
> > Jurisdiction request, hired Thomsen and Burke LLP (https://t-b.com/) for
> > expert legal advice, organized the revisions of the document, and invited
> > organizations and individuals with amateur satellite service interests to
> > join or support the request.
> >
> > ORI thanks Libre Space Foundation and Dr. Daniel Estevez for providing
> > their subject matter expertise and written testimony, and JAMSAT for
> > helpful encouragement and support.
> >
> > The legal costs were fully reimbursed with a generous grant from Amateur
> > Radio Digital Communications (ARDC). See
> > https://www.ampr.org/grants/grant-open-research-institute/.
> >
> > ARDC and ORI share a vision of clearly establishing open source as the
> best
> > and safest way to accomplish technical volunteer work in amateur radio.
> > This final determination letter provides solid support for that vision.
> The
> > determination enables the development of implementation guidelines that
> > will allow free international collaboration.
> >
> > This clears the path for a number of interesting projects facilitating
> new
> > methods for terrestrial and satellite communications, opening the door to
> > robust global digital amateur communications.
> >
> > Questions and inquiries to ori at openresearch.institute
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)

From rich at ourowndomain.com  Wed Aug 19 00:21:25 2020
From: rich at ourowndomain.com (Rich Gopstein)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 20:21:25 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOtDSAuNCLbw8XuXL96Xhy6bh9xnbrA13M1Mpc_gieKghQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeaorbVqBAi7+XeMRu6+81_5gybm7jRfdvaXCxQAdb+iRxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtDSAuNCLbw8XuXL96Xhy6bh9xnbrA13M1Mpc_gieKghQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANsNeapC4E6yPgczN_fuW4ZPeCHPQutM8296y3DwoWdzAYHtHw@mail.gmail.com>

Bruce,

Understood, however, the finding is very narrowly scoped - it only says
that your system is not covered by ITAR.  It doesn't say why.  You believe
it's related to the open-source nature of your system, however the
finding *doesn't
say that.*

I worked for 28+ years in a field that was regulated by the US government.
We on occasion also asked for findings on various things.  We were
NEVER allowed to make assumptions about the finding.  You could only go by
what the finding said.  And in your case, it's only that your system is not
covered by ITAR - nothing about *why* it's not covered. Because of that,
you can't generalize about other systems being covered or not.  It may seem
illogical, but that's the way the US regulatory system works.

Rich


On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:18 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:

> Rich,
>
> The most important thing here is that the DoD finding is *not permission*
> - it is a finding that your project wasn't *ever* subject to ITAR. This
> is thus useful to other projects that use the same Open Source strategy.
>
> A finding is useful for risk-reduction, in that you can wave it at the
> court and annoying FBI folks (they have harassed AMSAT developers in the
> past) and you can use this one as a precedent if you are making a request
> for another program in which you use the same strategies.
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Bruce
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 2:59 PM Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> Michelle,
>>
>> That's great news, but isn't that ruling only applicable to the specific
>> system that you asked about (digital microwave broadband...)?  It's not a
>> general finding that applies to anything else, right?
>>
>> Rich, KD2CQ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 12:24 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> https://openresearch.institute/2020/08/18/cj-determination-open-source-satellite-work-is-free-of-itar/
>> >
>> > The United States Department of State has ruled favorably on Open
>> Research
>> > Institute's commodity jurisdiction request, finding that specified
>> > ?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave Broadband
>> Communications
>> > System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio Use? is definitely not
>> > subject to State Department jurisdiction under ITAR, the International
>> > Traffic in Arms Regulations. This is an important step toward reducing
>> the
>> > burden of regulations restricting international cooperation on amateur
>> > satellite projects, which have impeded engineering work by amateurs in
>> the
>> > United States for decades.
>> >
>> > Export regulations divide both technical information and actual hardware
>> > into three categories. The most heavily restricted technologies fall
>> under
>> > ITAR, which is administered by the State Department. Technologies
>> subject
>> > to more routine restrictions fall under EAR, the Export Administration
>> > Regulations, administered by the Department of Commerce. Technologies
>> that
>> > are not subject to either set of regulations are not restricted for
>> export.
>> >
>> > On 20 February 2020, Open Research Institute (ORI) filed a Commodity
>> > Jurisdiction (CJ) Request with the US State Department, seeking to
>> > establish that key technologies for amateur radio are not subject to
>> State
>> > Department jurisdiction. ?Information and Software for a Digital
>> Microwave
>> > Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio
>> > Use? was assigned the case number CJ0003120. On 11 August 2020, the case
>> > received a successful final determination: the technology is not
>> subject to
>> > State Department jurisdiction. This is the best possible outcome of a CJ
>> > request.
>> >
>> > The Final Determination letter can be found at
>> >
>> >
>> https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/08/CJ-0003120-Final-Determination-Letter.pdf
>> > .
>> >
>> > Under this determination, the technologies are subject to the EAR. The
>> next
>> > step is to submit a classification request to the Commerce Department.
>> ORI
>> > anticipates that the Commerce Department will find that these
>> technologies
>> > are unrestricted under the carve-out for open source in the EAR.
>> >
>> > Open Research Institute (ORI) is a non-profit research and development
>> > organization which provides all of its work to the general public under
>> the
>> > principles of Open Source and Open Access to Research.
>> >
>> > This work was accomplished by a team of dedicated and competent open
>> source
>> > volunteers. The effort was initiated by Bruce Perens K6BP and lead by
>> > Michelle Thompson W5NYV.
>> >
>> > Open Research Institute developed the ideas behind the Commodity
>> > Jurisdiction request, hired Thomsen and Burke LLP (https://t-b.com/)
>> for
>> > expert legal advice, organized the revisions of the document, and
>> invited
>> > organizations and individuals with amateur satellite service interests
>> to
>> > join or support the request.
>> >
>> > ORI thanks Libre Space Foundation and Dr. Daniel Estevez for providing
>> > their subject matter expertise and written testimony, and JAMSAT for
>> > helpful encouragement and support.
>> >
>> > The legal costs were fully reimbursed with a generous grant from Amateur
>> > Radio Digital Communications (ARDC). See
>> > https://www.ampr.org/grants/grant-open-research-institute/.
>> >
>> > ARDC and ORI share a vision of clearly establishing open source as the
>> best
>> > and safest way to accomplish technical volunteer work in amateur radio.
>> > This final determination letter provides solid support for that vision.
>> The
>> > determination enables the development of implementation guidelines that
>> > will allow free international collaboration.
>> >
>> > This clears the path for a number of interesting projects facilitating
>> new
>> > methods for terrestrial and satellite communications, opening the door
>> to
>> > robust global digital amateur communications.
>> >
>> > Questions and inquiries to ori at openresearch.institute
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions
>> > expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> > AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>
>
> --
> Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
> :-)
>

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 01:03:36 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 21:03:36 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c_ov12dpaeP3QdTPZ9_QDBbNMdncOVEC_APvSoMfzp17g@mail.gmail.com>

Michelle,

This is quite interesting, indeed!  However, from your press release, I
really have no clue what "Information and Software for a Digital Microwave
Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio
Use", means (in terms of the legalese, definitions and proper nouns used,
etc...).  Depending on how they were defined, the determination may or may
not be directly relevant to AMSAT or anyone else for that matter...  And
just to be clear, i'm not trying to be a spoiler here or anything, this
could be really amazing news, or nothing more than a null determination
that sounds great in a headline but really means nothing.  I think Everyone
would welcome relaxed ITAR constraints on AMSAT engineers, in any
way, shape or form...  That being said, this begs the question, is the Form
DS-4076 and all supplemental materials, along with all written
communications with the DOS/DDTC concerning this matter, being made
public?  I think this would be absolutely necessary for anyone on the list
to get excited about this, in any way, shape or form.  I looked on the ORI
website and couldn't find anything around Feb 2020 (per the date the
indicated submission was made per the AUG11 reply from the DDTC).

Although, I am not a particular fan of ORI so-far, which is why I voted for
Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer....

I do commend any individual or entity that is able and willing to deal with
the DOS or DDTC.  It takes a lot of time and $.  At one point, my business
helped develop parts of a research UAV for a foreign military on a
high-altitude balloon, which included a wireless network.  One export
permit took over six months, with back-and-forths with questions and
clarifications, questions and clarifications, more questions and
clarifications... on and on and on...  Just because they say you can
produce Information and Software for a widget (however those are defined),
it doesn't necessarily mean you can actually get a permit to ship the
hardware with the software on it, anywhere.  Because the 'Information and
Software' (however defined), may not govern the hardware used.  In my case,
there were special accelerometers and gyros, that you don't purchase
without providing a lot of information.  So, no matter what software was
written to drive them, if you shipped them out of the country without a
permit, look out!  I remember finally getting my first export permit and
shipping label and putting it on the box and sending some hardware out.  It
was just a sticky label that went on a box, but wow, it wasn't easy.

It sure would be nice if ITAR was less of an issue but the devil's really
in the details here...

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO


On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 12:29 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR
>
>
> https://openresearch.institute/2020/08/18/cj-determination-open-source-satellite-work-is-free-of-itar/
>
> The United States Department of State has ruled favorably on Open Research
> Institute's commodity jurisdiction request, finding that specified
> ?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave Broadband Communications
> System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio Use? is definitely not
> subject to State Department jurisdiction under ITAR, the International
> Traffic in Arms Regulations. This is an important step toward reducing the
> burden of regulations restricting international cooperation on amateur
> satellite projects, which have impeded engineering work by amateurs in the
> United States for decades.
>
> Export regulations divide both technical information and actual hardware
> into three categories. The most heavily restricted technologies fall under
> ITAR, which is administered by the State Department. Technologies subject
> to more routine restrictions fall under EAR, the Export Administration
> Regulations, administered by the Department of Commerce. Technologies that
> are not subject to either set of regulations are not restricted for export.
>
> On 20 February 2020, Open Research Institute (ORI) filed a Commodity
> Jurisdiction (CJ) Request with the US State Department, seeking to
> establish that key technologies for amateur radio are not subject to State
> Department jurisdiction. ?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave
> Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio
> Use? was assigned the case number CJ0003120. On 11 August 2020, the case
> received a successful final determination: the technology is not subject to
> State Department jurisdiction. This is the best possible outcome of a CJ
> request.
>
> The Final Determination letter can be found at
>
> https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/08/CJ-0003120-Final-Determination-Letter.pdf
> .
>
> Under this determination, the technologies are subject to the EAR. The next
> step is to submit a classification request to the Commerce Department. ORI
> anticipates that the Commerce Department will find that these technologies
> are unrestricted under the carve-out for open source in the EAR.
>
> Open Research Institute (ORI) is a non-profit research and development
> organization which provides all of its work to the general public under the
> principles of Open Source and Open Access to Research.
>
> This work was accomplished by a team of dedicated and competent open source
> volunteers. The effort was initiated by Bruce Perens K6BP and lead by
> Michelle Thompson W5NYV.
>
> Open Research Institute developed the ideas behind the Commodity
> Jurisdiction request, hired Thomsen and Burke LLP (https://t-b.com/) for
> expert legal advice, organized the revisions of the document, and invited
> organizations and individuals with amateur satellite service interests to
> join or support the request.
>
> ORI thanks Libre Space Foundation and Dr. Daniel Estevez for providing
> their subject matter expertise and written testimony, and JAMSAT for
> helpful encouragement and support.
>
> The legal costs were fully reimbursed with a generous grant from Amateur
> Radio Digital Communications (ARDC). See
> https://www.ampr.org/grants/grant-open-research-institute/.
>
> ARDC and ORI share a vision of clearly establishing open source as the best
> and safest way to accomplish technical volunteer work in amateur radio.
> This final determination letter provides solid support for that vision. The
> determination enables the development of implementation guidelines that
> will allow free international collaboration.
>
> This clears the path for a number of interesting projects facilitating new
> methods for terrestrial and satellite communications, opening the door to
> robust global digital amateur communications.
>
> Questions and inquiries to ori at openresearch.institute
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From jeff30339 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 01:46:13 2020
From: jeff30339 at gmail.com (Jeff Johns)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 20:46:13 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c_ov12dpaeP3QdTPZ9_QDBbNMdncOVEC_APvSoMfzp17g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADkz4c_ov12dpaeP3QdTPZ9_QDBbNMdncOVEC_APvSoMfzp17g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E746C5ED-B6D7-4938-B0AC-499C7B62F58E@gmail.com>


> 
> Although, I am not a particular fan of ORI so-far, which is why I voted for
> Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer....
> 
> I do commend any individual or entity that is able and willing to deal with
> the DOS or DDTC. 

Have any of the three that you voted for spent any time putting in the effort that Michelle has done to reach the milestone she has achieved? From their campaign material, all I saw were promises of an HEO satellite which they haven?t been able to provide during their time in office. There was nothing showing that they were making advances on ITAR issues which I is a major roadblock for future spacecraft. 

It seems to me that Michelle et al are pushing forward to help create new technologies in a new way. I?m not an EE nor an ITAR expert, but I can easily recognize that I have not seen anyone from within AMSAT even attempting to do what she has so far accomplished with this announcement. If someone from within AMSAT is doing so, they certainly aren?t letting the membership know about it. 

Maybe people should just be grateful that someone is willing to put in the work to help move things forward in an innovative manner. 

I was not going to turn this news into a political statement but, since Joseph did, I will say that for those that have yet to vote, please consider myself, Howie and Bob. I guarantee that we will work hard to use work such as this to help forward AMSAT?s mission. 

Jeff WE4B 
http://we4bravo.com

From bruce at perens.com  Wed Aug 19 01:56:12 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 18:56:12 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CANsNeapC4E6yPgczN_fuW4ZPeCHPQutM8296y3DwoWdzAYHtHw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeaorbVqBAi7+XeMRu6+81_5gybm7jRfdvaXCxQAdb+iRxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtDSAuNCLbw8XuXL96Xhy6bh9xnbrA13M1Mpc_gieKghQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeapC4E6yPgczN_fuW4ZPeCHPQutM8296y3DwoWdzAYHtHw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOu_ff9Nd5wyiv6Y3knT_HsaQtb16uxRFsuPBEQ6HhT4WQ@mail.gmail.com>

We have the actual ITAR rules to tell us about the public knowledge
carve-out. We will receive further confirmation when we get a finding from
Department of Commerce, and of course every time a project asks for such a
finding there will be further confirmation. I don't think it will be
necessary to make as few assumptions as you did in your company.

On Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 17:21 Rich Gopstein <rich at ourowndomain.com> wrote:

> Bruce,
>
> Understood, however, the finding is very narrowly scoped - it only says
> that your system is not covered by ITAR.  It doesn't say why.  You believe
> it's related to the open-source nature of your system, however the finding *doesn't
> say that.*
>
> I worked for 28+ years in a field that was regulated by the US
> government.  We on occasion also asked for findings on various things.  We
> were NEVER allowed to make assumptions about the finding.  You could only
> go by what the finding said.  And in your case, it's only that your system
> is not covered by ITAR - nothing about *why* it's not covered. Because of
> that, you can't generalize about other systems being covered or not.  It
> may seem illogical, but that's the way the US regulatory system works.
>
> Rich
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:18 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>
>> Rich,
>>
>> The most important thing here is that the DoD finding is *not permission*
>> - it is a finding that your project wasn't *ever* subject to ITAR. This
>> is thus useful to other projects that use the same Open Source strategy.
>>
>> A finding is useful for risk-reduction, in that you can wave it at the
>> court and annoying FBI folks (they have harassed AMSAT developers in the
>> past) and you can use this one as a precedent if you are making a request
>> for another program in which you use the same strategies.
>>
>>     Thanks
>>
>>     Bruce
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 2:59 PM Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Michelle,
>>>
>>> That's great news, but isn't that ruling only applicable to the specific
>>> system that you asked about (digital microwave broadband...)?  It's not a
>>> general finding that applies to anything else, right?
>>>
>>> Rich, KD2CQ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 12:24 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> https://openresearch.institute/2020/08/18/cj-determination-open-source-satellite-work-is-free-of-itar/
>>> >
>>> > The United States Department of State has ruled favorably on Open
>>> Research
>>> > Institute's commodity jurisdiction request, finding that specified
>>> > ?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave Broadband
>>> Communications
>>> > System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio Use? is definitely not
>>> > subject to State Department jurisdiction under ITAR, the International
>>> > Traffic in Arms Regulations. This is an important step toward reducing
>>> the
>>> > burden of regulations restricting international cooperation on amateur
>>> > satellite projects, which have impeded engineering work by amateurs in
>>> the
>>> > United States for decades.
>>> >
>>> > Export regulations divide both technical information and actual
>>> hardware
>>> > into three categories. The most heavily restricted technologies fall
>>> under
>>> > ITAR, which is administered by the State Department. Technologies
>>> subject
>>> > to more routine restrictions fall under EAR, the Export Administration
>>> > Regulations, administered by the Department of Commerce. Technologies
>>> that
>>> > are not subject to either set of regulations are not restricted for
>>> export.
>>> >
>>> > On 20 February 2020, Open Research Institute (ORI) filed a Commodity
>>> > Jurisdiction (CJ) Request with the US State Department, seeking to
>>> > establish that key technologies for amateur radio are not subject to
>>> State
>>> > Department jurisdiction. ?Information and Software for a Digital
>>> Microwave
>>> > Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio
>>> > Use? was assigned the case number CJ0003120. On 11 August 2020, the
>>> case
>>> > received a successful final determination: the technology is not
>>> subject to
>>> > State Department jurisdiction. This is the best possible outcome of a
>>> CJ
>>> > request.
>>> >
>>> > The Final Determination letter can be found at
>>> >
>>> >
>>> https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/08/CJ-0003120-Final-Determination-Letter.pdf
>>> > .
>>> >
>>> > Under this determination, the technologies are subject to the EAR. The
>>> next
>>> > step is to submit a classification request to the Commerce Department.
>>> ORI
>>> > anticipates that the Commerce Department will find that these
>>> technologies
>>> > are unrestricted under the carve-out for open source in the EAR.
>>> >
>>> > Open Research Institute (ORI) is a non-profit research and development
>>> > organization which provides all of its work to the general public
>>> under the
>>> > principles of Open Source and Open Access to Research.
>>> >
>>> > This work was accomplished by a team of dedicated and competent open
>>> source
>>> > volunteers. The effort was initiated by Bruce Perens K6BP and lead by
>>> > Michelle Thompson W5NYV.
>>> >
>>> > Open Research Institute developed the ideas behind the Commodity
>>> > Jurisdiction request, hired Thomsen and Burke LLP (https://t-b.com/)
>>> for
>>> > expert legal advice, organized the revisions of the document, and
>>> invited
>>> > organizations and individuals with amateur satellite service interests
>>> to
>>> > join or support the request.
>>> >
>>> > ORI thanks Libre Space Foundation and Dr. Daniel Estevez for providing
>>> > their subject matter expertise and written testimony, and JAMSAT for
>>> > helpful encouragement and support.
>>> >
>>> > The legal costs were fully reimbursed with a generous grant from
>>> Amateur
>>> > Radio Digital Communications (ARDC). See
>>> > https://www.ampr.org/grants/grant-open-research-institute/.
>>> >
>>> > ARDC and ORI share a vision of clearly establishing open source as the
>>> best
>>> > and safest way to accomplish technical volunteer work in amateur radio.
>>> > This final determination letter provides solid support for that
>>> vision. The
>>> > determination enables the development of implementation guidelines that
>>> > will allow free international collaboration.
>>> >
>>> > This clears the path for a number of interesting projects facilitating
>>> new
>>> > methods for terrestrial and satellite communications, opening the door
>>> to
>>> > robust global digital amateur communications.
>>> >
>>> > Questions and inquiries to ori at openresearch.institute
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions
>>> > expressed
>>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>> of
>>> > AMSAT-NA.
>>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
>> eventually :-)
>>
>

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Wed Aug 19 02:07:05 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 21:07:05 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb]
 =?utf-8?q?Open_Source_Satellite_Work_Determined_to_be_?=
 =?utf-8?q?Free_of=09ITAR?=
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOu_ff9Nd5wyiv6Y3knT_HsaQtb16uxRFsuPBEQ6HhT4WQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeaorbVqBAi7+XeMRu6+81_5gybm7jRfdvaXCxQAdb+iRxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtDSAuNCLbw8XuXL96Xhy6bh9xnbrA13M1Mpc_gieKghQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeapC4E6yPgczN_fuW4ZPeCHPQutM8296y3DwoWdzAYHtHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOu_ff9Nd5wyiv6Y3knT_HsaQtb16uxRFsuPBEQ6HhT4WQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77a658bd-e6bb-42ea-8076-14cfd893d855@www.fastmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2020, at 8:56 PM, Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> We have the actual ITAR rules to tell us about the public knowledge
> carve-out. We will receive further confirmation when we get a finding from
> Department of Commerce, and of course every time a project asks for such a
> finding there will be further confirmation. I don't think it will be
> necessary to make as few assumptions as you did in your company.

In the past, AMSAT volunteers have had a rude surprise when they were held personally liable for violating ITAR, or so I'm told. 

Will ORI indemnify volunteers who work on projects where it may, later, be found that ITAR applies? Is that even possible for ORI to do?

If not, this makes me less interested in volunteering my skills and time to ORI projects.

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 02:47:38 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 22:47:38 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <E746C5ED-B6D7-4938-B0AC-499C7B62F58E@gmail.com>
References: <CADkz4c_ov12dpaeP3QdTPZ9_QDBbNMdncOVEC_APvSoMfzp17g@mail.gmail.com>
	<E746C5ED-B6D7-4938-B0AC-499C7B62F58E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c_CiGDqaWSbkfJNGwpnJxqxiMLAccfxCz88rcrTy_BSdw@mail.gmail.com>

Jeff,

Everyone will be grateful, if there's something to be grateful for.  All I
am asking for is support of the claim that this is, in fact, a milestone.
The publicly posted CJ Determination letter, leaves ALL of the critical
information out and means nothing, without context.  What was in the
request, specifically?  If you want to claim that this is some huge leap or
advance being made on ITAR issues for ORI, AMSAT, or whomever... all I am
asking for is a copy of the Form DS-4076, a copy of all supplemental
materials and communications with the DOS/DDTC on the matter.  This way,
everyone in the community can read through and digest what was specifically
requested, in order to authenticate the claim.  I made an effort to find
the information on ORIs website , but nothing came up.  I apologize in
advance if I missed it...

You say no politics is involved, but I beg to differ.  This could be an
attempt to say "hey -bb, look how awesome we all are!! we defeated ITAR!!",
and then pat each other on the back on the -bb, Right, Before An
Election... just to get brownie points with the community, without
providing any actual substance.  A lot of BB-readers may not be
well-informed on the process and incorrectly conclude: "wow, what
progress!".

A little transparency could go a long way here.

If what is being claimed is true, then high-five, that's awesome!  But,
without seeing the request and supplementary info, the determination letter
means little to nothing to me personally.

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO


On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 9:48 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

>
> >
> > Although, I am not a particular fan of ORI so-far, which is why I voted
> for
> > Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer....
> >
> > I do commend any individual or entity that is able and willing to deal
> with
> > the DOS or DDTC.
>
> Have any of the three that you voted for spent any time putting in the
> effort that Michelle has done to reach the milestone she has achieved? From
> their campaign material, all I saw were promises of an HEO satellite which
> they haven?t been able to provide during their time in office. There was
> nothing showing that they were making advances on ITAR issues which I is a
> major roadblock for future spacecraft.
>
> It seems to me that Michelle et al are pushing forward to help create new
> technologies in a new way. I?m not an EE nor an ITAR expert, but I can
> easily recognize that I have not seen anyone from within AMSAT even
> attempting to do what she has so far accomplished with this announcement.
> If someone from within AMSAT is doing so, they certainly aren?t letting the
> membership know about it.
>
> Maybe people should just be grateful that someone is willing to put in the
> work to help move things forward in an innovative manner.
>
> I was not going to turn this news into a political statement but, since
> Joseph did, I will say that for those that have yet to vote, please
> consider myself, Howie and Bob. I guarantee that we will work hard to use
> work such as this to help forward AMSAT?s mission.
>
> Jeff WE4B
> http://we4bravo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From bruce at perens.com  Wed Aug 19 03:20:39 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 20:20:39 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <77a658bd-e6bb-42ea-8076-14cfd893d855@www.fastmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeaorbVqBAi7+XeMRu6+81_5gybm7jRfdvaXCxQAdb+iRxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtDSAuNCLbw8XuXL96Xhy6bh9xnbrA13M1Mpc_gieKghQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeapC4E6yPgczN_fuW4ZPeCHPQutM8296y3DwoWdzAYHtHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOu_ff9Nd5wyiv6Y3knT_HsaQtb16uxRFsuPBEQ6HhT4WQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<77a658bd-e6bb-42ea-8076-14cfd893d855@www.fastmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOvn1cNnP1ApNdSiwdfpU=2NX2nhC9rV60SNdGj+dCNBKw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 7:27 PM Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> In the past, AMSAT volunteers have had a rude surprise when they were held
> personally liable for violating ITAR, or so I'm told.
>

Never happened. What did happen is that one or more AMSAT developers had
intimidating interviews with the FBI. I got a direct report from one of the
developers. There has never been a court case, which would have been
necessary for any person or organization to be held liable for anything.

ORI and AMSAT are both their own corporations. When you are working on
behalf of the corporation, and under the direction and its officers, it is
the corporation's liability, not your personal liability. That and the
ability to collect tax-exempt donations are the only reasons we bother
making these organizations formal legal entities at all.

You can insure this sort of risk if the organization has so much to lose
that insurance is economical. Another choice is to accept that the
organization might go bankrupt if it was fined.

In general we face more risk from the IRS and the states that have granted
our charters, over their non-profit rules. If you are an officer of a
corporation that is not in good standing, it gets in the way when you want
to be an officer of another corporation.

    Thanks

    Bruce

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 03:23:22 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 20:23:22 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c_ov12dpaeP3QdTPZ9_QDBbNMdncOVEC_APvSoMfzp17g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_ov12dpaeP3QdTPZ9_QDBbNMdncOVEC_APvSoMfzp17g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2XJXBNXj9Wwy_B7QfsKZ0-MkHHzxhBx=OckUbMM_QZu2A@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, Joseph, it?s amazing news and It is just as good as advertised.

The result is of enormous and direct benefit to AMSAT.

AMSAT was asked to join the request. I sent a paper letter, wrote the
board, brought it up during the 2019 annual board meeting, and published an
open letter. I did all I could to enable the full participation of the one
organization that stands to benefit the most from this determination.

But, the men you voted for did not respond, at all.

It took a year of very hard work. It?s a gift to the community. It can
restore free and open international collaboration.

That?s it. There?s no tricks or gotchas. It is what it is claimed to be.

I would have done the same work and raised the same money if AMSAT had
wanted their name on it. I would be just as proud and would be saying the
same things. When work needs to be done, it needs to be done.

Information contained in CJ requests is not usually made public. The law
firm would not file it unless it was presented to the State Department as
private and confidential. This advice was because virtually all requests
are for proprietary programs and products. Sticking out in this regard, by
doing something they advised strongly against, would not work to our
advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the wrong
hill.

Additionally, the law firm does not want their work products or email
correspondence published. We will honor that. We want to work with them
again. They were fantastic, recommended by EFF, and 100% supportive of open
source.

Fortunately, *everything* that went into the request is already public
information. All our designs, details, policies, procedures, definitions,
diagrams, and code are available to the general public free of charge,
today. That?s the primary reason it succeeded. We already follow the law
with respect to public domain carve outs and publishing requirements. The
final determination shows the value of this approach.

AMSAT can do this too. There is literally no reason not to. This is the
game changer people have been waiting for.

*All* of what *anyone* will need to know to take full advantage will be
published in a set of implementation guidelines.

This is the single best risk reduction for AMSAT volunteers that exists in
US law. It is the gold standard. We have access as a community to this
result because a team of very committed and competent people made it happen
and are now going to make it easy to use.

Want to contribute to the guidelines? Participants are welcome.

-Michelle W5NYV






On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 18:01 Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Michelle,
>
> This is quite interesting, indeed!  However, from your press release, I
> really have no clue what "Information and Software for a Digital Microwave
> Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio
> Use", means (in terms of the legalese, definitions and proper nouns used,
> etc...).  Depending on how they were defined, the determination may or may
> not be directly relevant to AMSAT or anyone else for that matter...  And
> just to be clear, i'm not trying to be a spoiler here or anything, this
> could be really amazing news, or nothing more than a null determination
> that sounds great in a headline but really means nothing.  I think Everyone
> would welcome relaxed ITAR constraints on AMSAT engineers, in any
> way, shape or form...  That being said, this begs the question, is the Form
> DS-4076 and all supplemental materials, along with all written
> communications with the DOS/DDTC concerning this matter, being made
> public?  I think this would be absolutely necessary for anyone on the list
> to get excited about this, in any way, shape or form.  I looked on the ORI
> website and couldn't find anything around Feb 2020 (per the date the
> indicated submission was made per the AUG11 reply from the DDTC).
>
> Although, I am not a particular fan of ORI so-far, which is why I voted
> for Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer....
>
> I do commend any individual or entity that is able and willing to deal
> with the DOS or DDTC.  It takes a lot of time and $.  At one point, my
> business helped develop parts of a research UAV for a foreign military on a
> high-altitude balloon, which included a wireless network.  One export
> permit took over six months, with back-and-forths with questions and
> clarifications, questions and clarifications, more questions and
> clarifications... on and on and on...  Just because they say you can
> produce Information and Software for a widget (however those are defined),
> it doesn't necessarily mean you can actually get a permit to ship the
> hardware with the software on it, anywhere.  Because the 'Information and
> Software' (however defined), may not govern the hardware used.  In my case,
> there were special accelerometers and gyros, that you don't purchase
> without providing a lot of information.  So, no matter what software was
> written to drive them, if you shipped them out of the country without a
> permit, look out!  I remember finally getting my first export permit and
> shipping label and putting it on the box and sending some hardware out.  It
> was just a sticky label that went on a box, but wow, it wasn't easy.
>
> It sure would be nice if ITAR was less of an issue but the devil's really
> in the details here...
>
> Joseph Armbruster
> KJ4JIO
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 12:29 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR
>>
>>
>> https://openresearch.institute/2020/08/18/cj-determination-open-source-satellite-work-is-free-of-itar/
>>
>> The United States Department of State has ruled favorably on Open Research
>> Institute's commodity jurisdiction request, finding that specified
>> ?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave Broadband Communications
>> System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio Use? is definitely not
>> subject to State Department jurisdiction under ITAR, the International
>> Traffic in Arms Regulations. This is an important step toward reducing the
>> burden of regulations restricting international cooperation on amateur
>> satellite projects, which have impeded engineering work by amateurs in the
>> United States for decades.
>>
>> Export regulations divide both technical information and actual hardware
>> into three categories. The most heavily restricted technologies fall under
>> ITAR, which is administered by the State Department. Technologies subject
>> to more routine restrictions fall under EAR, the Export Administration
>> Regulations, administered by the Department of Commerce. Technologies that
>> are not subject to either set of regulations are not restricted for
>> export.
>>
>> On 20 February 2020, Open Research Institute (ORI) filed a Commodity
>> Jurisdiction (CJ) Request with the US State Department, seeking to
>> establish that key technologies for amateur radio are not subject to State
>> Department jurisdiction. ?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave
>> Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio
>> Use? was assigned the case number CJ0003120. On 11 August 2020, the case
>> received a successful final determination: the technology is not subject
>> to
>> State Department jurisdiction. This is the best possible outcome of a CJ
>> request.
>>
>> The Final Determination letter can be found at
>>
>> https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/08/CJ-0003120-Final-Determination-Letter.pdf
>> .
>>
>> Under this determination, the technologies are subject to the EAR. The
>> next
>> step is to submit a classification request to the Commerce Department. ORI
>> anticipates that the Commerce Department will find that these technologies
>> are unrestricted under the carve-out for open source in the EAR.
>>
>> Open Research Institute (ORI) is a non-profit research and development
>> organization which provides all of its work to the general public under
>> the
>> principles of Open Source and Open Access to Research.
>>
>> This work was accomplished by a team of dedicated and competent open
>> source
>> volunteers. The effort was initiated by Bruce Perens K6BP and lead by
>> Michelle Thompson W5NYV.
>>
>> Open Research Institute developed the ideas behind the Commodity
>> Jurisdiction request, hired Thomsen and Burke LLP (https://t-b.com/) for
>> expert legal advice, organized the revisions of the document, and invited
>> organizations and individuals with amateur satellite service interests to
>> join or support the request.
>>
>> ORI thanks Libre Space Foundation and Dr. Daniel Estevez for providing
>> their subject matter expertise and written testimony, and JAMSAT for
>> helpful encouragement and support.
>>
>> The legal costs were fully reimbursed with a generous grant from Amateur
>> Radio Digital Communications (ARDC). See
>> https://www.ampr.org/grants/grant-open-research-institute/.
>>
>> ARDC and ORI share a vision of clearly establishing open source as the
>> best
>> and safest way to accomplish technical volunteer work in amateur radio.
>> This final determination letter provides solid support for that vision.
>> The
>> determination enables the development of implementation guidelines that
>> will allow free international collaboration.
>>
>> This clears the path for a number of interesting projects facilitating new
>> methods for terrestrial and satellite communications, opening the door to
>> robust global digital amateur communications.
>>
>> Questions and inquiries to ori at openresearch.institute
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> --
-Michelle W5NYV

"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."

From rich at ourowndomain.com  Wed Aug 19 03:24:51 2020
From: rich at ourowndomain.com (Rich Gopstein)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 23:24:51 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOu_ff9Nd5wyiv6Y3knT_HsaQtb16uxRFsuPBEQ6HhT4WQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeaorbVqBAi7+XeMRu6+81_5gybm7jRfdvaXCxQAdb+iRxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtDSAuNCLbw8XuXL96Xhy6bh9xnbrA13M1Mpc_gieKghQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeapC4E6yPgczN_fuW4ZPeCHPQutM8296y3DwoWdzAYHtHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOu_ff9Nd5wyiv6Y3knT_HsaQtb16uxRFsuPBEQ6HhT4WQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANsNeao2OqZZ8q3t+g66GMJmexD76Hyp130eRtJT59UrC_wqOw@mail.gmail.com>

The finding said nothing about open-source, so I don't understand how you
can claim this is a win for open-source.

BTW -  I'd be thrilled if this did say something about the use of
open-source and ITAR, but it doesn't.

Rich

On Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 9:56 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:

> We have the actual ITAR rules to tell us about the public knowledge
> carve-out. We will receive further confirmation when we get a finding from
> Department of Commerce, and of course every time a project asks for such a
> finding there will be further confirmation. I don't think it will be
> necessary to make as few assumptions as you did in your company.
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 17:21 Rich Gopstein <rich at ourowndomain.com> wrote:
>
>> Bruce,
>>
>> Understood, however, the finding is very narrowly scoped - it only says
>> that your system is not covered by ITAR.  It doesn't say why.  You believe
>> it's related to the open-source nature of your system, however the finding *doesn't
>> say that.*
>>
>> I worked for 28+ years in a field that was regulated by the US
>> government.  We on occasion also asked for findings on various things.  We
>> were NEVER allowed to make assumptions about the finding.  You could only
>> go by what the finding said.  And in your case, it's only that your system
>> is not covered by ITAR - nothing about *why* it's not covered. Because
>> of that, you can't generalize about other systems being covered or not.  It
>> may seem illogical, but that's the way the US regulatory system works.
>>
>> Rich
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:18 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Rich,
>>>
>>> The most important thing here is that the DoD finding is *not
>>> permission* - it is a finding that your project wasn't *ever* subject
>>> to ITAR. This is thus useful to other projects that use the same Open
>>> Source strategy.
>>>
>>> A finding is useful for risk-reduction, in that you can wave it at the
>>> court and annoying FBI folks (they have harassed AMSAT developers in the
>>> past) and you can use this one as a precedent if you are making a request
>>> for another program in which you use the same strategies.
>>>
>>>     Thanks
>>>
>>>     Bruce
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 2:59 PM Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB <
>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Michelle,
>>>>
>>>> That's great news, but isn't that ruling only applicable to the specific
>>>> system that you asked about (digital microwave broadband...)?  It's not
>>>> a
>>>> general finding that applies to anything else, right?
>>>>
>>>> Rich, KD2CQ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 12:24 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> https://openresearch.institute/2020/08/18/cj-determination-open-source-satellite-work-is-free-of-itar/
>>>> >
>>>> > The United States Department of State has ruled favorably on Open
>>>> Research
>>>> > Institute's commodity jurisdiction request, finding that specified
>>>> > ?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave Broadband
>>>> Communications
>>>> > System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio Use? is definitely not
>>>> > subject to State Department jurisdiction under ITAR, the International
>>>> > Traffic in Arms Regulations. This is an important step toward
>>>> reducing the
>>>> > burden of regulations restricting international cooperation on amateur
>>>> > satellite projects, which have impeded engineering work by amateurs
>>>> in the
>>>> > United States for decades.
>>>> >
>>>> > Export regulations divide both technical information and actual
>>>> hardware
>>>> > into three categories. The most heavily restricted technologies fall
>>>> under
>>>> > ITAR, which is administered by the State Department. Technologies
>>>> subject
>>>> > to more routine restrictions fall under EAR, the Export Administration
>>>> > Regulations, administered by the Department of Commerce. Technologies
>>>> that
>>>> > are not subject to either set of regulations are not restricted for
>>>> export.
>>>> >
>>>> > On 20 February 2020, Open Research Institute (ORI) filed a Commodity
>>>> > Jurisdiction (CJ) Request with the US State Department, seeking to
>>>> > establish that key technologies for amateur radio are not subject to
>>>> State
>>>> > Department jurisdiction. ?Information and Software for a Digital
>>>> Microwave
>>>> > Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur
>>>> Radio
>>>> > Use? was assigned the case number CJ0003120. On 11 August 2020, the
>>>> case
>>>> > received a successful final determination: the technology is not
>>>> subject to
>>>> > State Department jurisdiction. This is the best possible outcome of a
>>>> CJ
>>>> > request.
>>>> >
>>>> > The Final Determination letter can be found at
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/08/CJ-0003120-Final-Determination-Letter.pdf
>>>> > .
>>>> >
>>>> > Under this determination, the technologies are subject to the EAR.
>>>> The next
>>>> > step is to submit a classification request to the Commerce
>>>> Department. ORI
>>>> > anticipates that the Commerce Department will find that these
>>>> technologies
>>>> > are unrestricted under the carve-out for open source in the EAR.
>>>> >
>>>> > Open Research Institute (ORI) is a non-profit research and development
>>>> > organization which provides all of its work to the general public
>>>> under the
>>>> > principles of Open Source and Open Access to Research.
>>>> >
>>>> > This work was accomplished by a team of dedicated and competent open
>>>> source
>>>> > volunteers. The effort was initiated by Bruce Perens K6BP and lead by
>>>> > Michelle Thompson W5NYV.
>>>> >
>>>> > Open Research Institute developed the ideas behind the Commodity
>>>> > Jurisdiction request, hired Thomsen and Burke LLP (https://t-b.com/)
>>>> for
>>>> > expert legal advice, organized the revisions of the document, and
>>>> invited
>>>> > organizations and individuals with amateur satellite service
>>>> interests to
>>>> > join or support the request.
>>>> >
>>>> > ORI thanks Libre Space Foundation and Dr. Daniel Estevez for providing
>>>> > their subject matter expertise and written testimony, and JAMSAT for
>>>> > helpful encouragement and support.
>>>> >
>>>> > The legal costs were fully reimbursed with a generous grant from
>>>> Amateur
>>>> > Radio Digital Communications (ARDC). See
>>>> > https://www.ampr.org/grants/grant-open-research-institute/.
>>>> >
>>>> > ARDC and ORI share a vision of clearly establishing open source as
>>>> the best
>>>> > and safest way to accomplish technical volunteer work in amateur
>>>> radio.
>>>> > This final determination letter provides solid support for that
>>>> vision. The
>>>> > determination enables the development of implementation guidelines
>>>> that
>>>> > will allow free international collaboration.
>>>> >
>>>> > This clears the path for a number of interesting projects
>>>> facilitating new
>>>> > methods for terrestrial and satellite communications, opening the
>>>> door to
>>>> > robust global digital amateur communications.
>>>> >
>>>> > Questions and inquiries to ori at openresearch.institute
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>> Opinions
>>>> > expressed
>>>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>>> of
>>>> > AMSAT-NA.
>>>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>> program!
>>>> > Subscription settings:
>>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>> >
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>> Opinions expressed
>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>>> of AMSAT-NA.
>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>> program!
>>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
>>> eventually :-)
>>>
>>

From bruce at perens.com  Wed Aug 19 03:27:27 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 20:27:27 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CANsNeao2OqZZ8q3t+g66GMJmexD76Hyp130eRtJT59UrC_wqOw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeaorbVqBAi7+XeMRu6+81_5gybm7jRfdvaXCxQAdb+iRxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtDSAuNCLbw8XuXL96Xhy6bh9xnbrA13M1Mpc_gieKghQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeapC4E6yPgczN_fuW4ZPeCHPQutM8296y3DwoWdzAYHtHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOu_ff9Nd5wyiv6Y3knT_HsaQtb16uxRFsuPBEQ6HhT4WQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeao2OqZZ8q3t+g66GMJmexD76Hyp130eRtJT59UrC_wqOw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOtfPXOpdFFPHSOWPjHN7_cS_xGLyGR+Q=+hem=cdrH5tg@mail.gmail.com>

The application made it plain that our intent was to make the entire
satellite design and software Open Source.

It is interesting to note that the government form actually asks if you
have any Open Source software in the product.

I will leave it to ORI to decide whom to show the application. I have a
copy, but no permission to disclose it.

    Thanks

    Bruce

On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 8:25 PM Rich Gopstein <rich at ourowndomain.com> wrote:

> The finding said nothing about open-source, so I don't understand how you
> can claim this is a win for open-source.
>
> BTW -  I'd be thrilled if this did say something about the use of
> open-source and ITAR, but it doesn't.
>
> Rich
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 9:56 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>
>> We have the actual ITAR rules to tell us about the public knowledge
>> carve-out. We will receive further confirmation when we get a finding from
>> Department of Commerce, and of course every time a project asks for such a
>> finding there will be further confirmation. I don't think it will be
>> necessary to make as few assumptions as you did in your company.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 17:21 Rich Gopstein <rich at ourowndomain.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Bruce,
>>>
>>> Understood, however, the finding is very narrowly scoped - it only says
>>> that your system is not covered by ITAR.  It doesn't say why.  You believe
>>> it's related to the open-source nature of your system, however the finding *doesn't
>>> say that.*
>>>
>>> I worked for 28+ years in a field that was regulated by the US
>>> government.  We on occasion also asked for findings on various things.  We
>>> were NEVER allowed to make assumptions about the finding.  You could only
>>> go by what the finding said.  And in your case, it's only that your system
>>> is not covered by ITAR - nothing about *why* it's not covered. Because
>>> of that, you can't generalize about other systems being covered or not.  It
>>> may seem illogical, but that's the way the US regulatory system works.
>>>
>>> Rich
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:18 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rich,
>>>>
>>>> The most important thing here is that the DoD finding is *not
>>>> permission* - it is a finding that your project wasn't *ever* subject
>>>> to ITAR. This is thus useful to other projects that use the same Open
>>>> Source strategy.
>>>>
>>>> A finding is useful for risk-reduction, in that you can wave it at the
>>>> court and annoying FBI folks (they have harassed AMSAT developers in the
>>>> past) and you can use this one as a precedent if you are making a request
>>>> for another program in which you use the same strategies.
>>>>
>>>>     Thanks
>>>>
>>>>     Bruce
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 2:59 PM Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB <
>>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Michelle,
>>>>>
>>>>> That's great news, but isn't that ruling only applicable to the
>>>>> specific
>>>>> system that you asked about (digital microwave broadband...)?  It's
>>>>> not a
>>>>> general finding that applies to anything else, right?
>>>>>
>>>>> Rich, KD2CQ
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 12:24 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>>>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> https://openresearch.institute/2020/08/18/cj-determination-open-source-satellite-work-is-free-of-itar/
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The United States Department of State has ruled favorably on Open
>>>>> Research
>>>>> > Institute's commodity jurisdiction request, finding that specified
>>>>> > ?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave Broadband
>>>>> Communications
>>>>> > System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio Use? is definitely not
>>>>> > subject to State Department jurisdiction under ITAR, the
>>>>> International
>>>>> > Traffic in Arms Regulations. This is an important step toward
>>>>> reducing the
>>>>> > burden of regulations restricting international cooperation on
>>>>> amateur
>>>>> > satellite projects, which have impeded engineering work by amateurs
>>>>> in the
>>>>> > United States for decades.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Export regulations divide both technical information and actual
>>>>> hardware
>>>>> > into three categories. The most heavily restricted technologies fall
>>>>> under
>>>>> > ITAR, which is administered by the State Department. Technologies
>>>>> subject
>>>>> > to more routine restrictions fall under EAR, the Export
>>>>> Administration
>>>>> > Regulations, administered by the Department of Commerce.
>>>>> Technologies that
>>>>> > are not subject to either set of regulations are not restricted for
>>>>> export.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On 20 February 2020, Open Research Institute (ORI) filed a Commodity
>>>>> > Jurisdiction (CJ) Request with the US State Department, seeking to
>>>>> > establish that key technologies for amateur radio are not subject to
>>>>> State
>>>>> > Department jurisdiction. ?Information and Software for a Digital
>>>>> Microwave
>>>>> > Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur
>>>>> Radio
>>>>> > Use? was assigned the case number CJ0003120. On 11 August 2020, the
>>>>> case
>>>>> > received a successful final determination: the technology is not
>>>>> subject to
>>>>> > State Department jurisdiction. This is the best possible outcome of
>>>>> a CJ
>>>>> > request.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The Final Determination letter can be found at
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/08/CJ-0003120-Final-Determination-Letter.pdf
>>>>> > .
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Under this determination, the technologies are subject to the EAR.
>>>>> The next
>>>>> > step is to submit a classification request to the Commerce
>>>>> Department. ORI
>>>>> > anticipates that the Commerce Department will find that these
>>>>> technologies
>>>>> > are unrestricted under the carve-out for open source in the EAR.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Open Research Institute (ORI) is a non-profit research and
>>>>> development
>>>>> > organization which provides all of its work to the general public
>>>>> under the
>>>>> > principles of Open Source and Open Access to Research.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > This work was accomplished by a team of dedicated and competent open
>>>>> source
>>>>> > volunteers. The effort was initiated by Bruce Perens K6BP and lead by
>>>>> > Michelle Thompson W5NYV.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Open Research Institute developed the ideas behind the Commodity
>>>>> > Jurisdiction request, hired Thomsen and Burke LLP (https://t-b.com/)
>>>>> for
>>>>> > expert legal advice, organized the revisions of the document, and
>>>>> invited
>>>>> > organizations and individuals with amateur satellite service
>>>>> interests to
>>>>> > join or support the request.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ORI thanks Libre Space Foundation and Dr. Daniel Estevez for
>>>>> providing
>>>>> > their subject matter expertise and written testimony, and JAMSAT for
>>>>> > helpful encouragement and support.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The legal costs were fully reimbursed with a generous grant from
>>>>> Amateur
>>>>> > Radio Digital Communications (ARDC). See
>>>>> > https://www.ampr.org/grants/grant-open-research-institute/.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ARDC and ORI share a vision of clearly establishing open source as
>>>>> the best
>>>>> > and safest way to accomplish technical volunteer work in amateur
>>>>> radio.
>>>>> > This final determination letter provides solid support for that
>>>>> vision. The
>>>>> > determination enables the development of implementation guidelines
>>>>> that
>>>>> > will allow free international collaboration.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > This clears the path for a number of interesting projects
>>>>> facilitating new
>>>>> > methods for terrestrial and satellite communications, opening the
>>>>> door to
>>>>> > robust global digital amateur communications.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Questions and inquiries to ori at openresearch.institute
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>>>> available
>>>>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>>> Opinions
>>>>> > expressed
>>>>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>>>> views of
>>>>> > AMSAT-NA.
>>>>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>>> program!
>>>>> > Subscription settings:
>>>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>> >
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>>> Opinions expressed
>>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>>>> of AMSAT-NA.
>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>>> program!
>>>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
>>>> eventually :-)
>>>>
>>>

-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 04:07:51 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 21:07:51 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOtfPXOpdFFPHSOWPjHN7_cS_xGLyGR+Q=+hem=cdrH5tg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeaorbVqBAi7+XeMRu6+81_5gybm7jRfdvaXCxQAdb+iRxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtDSAuNCLbw8XuXL96Xhy6bh9xnbrA13M1Mpc_gieKghQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeapC4E6yPgczN_fuW4ZPeCHPQutM8296y3DwoWdzAYHtHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOu_ff9Nd5wyiv6Y3knT_HsaQtb16uxRFsuPBEQ6HhT4WQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeao2OqZZ8q3t+g66GMJmexD76Hyp130eRtJT59UrC_wqOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtfPXOpdFFPHSOWPjHN7_cS_xGLyGR+Q=+hem=cdrH5tg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2WbHT7r6wona4KkHyzCyGU0202L6yWATJM96o6y=Uf1nA@mail.gmail.com>

I think a recorded talk about the process, the form, and the repercussions
would be of interest.

Articles have been requested too.

I think we can get things described fully in relatively short order.

It is a real pleasure to be able to make this announcement. We were
prepared for a lengthy, difficult, and expensive appeals process.

The entire application hinged on the public domain carve out use. As
mentioned before, the approach was based on the policies Bruce authored.

I don?t want to dump the application on the internet without a clear ok
from the firm. I?ll ask (again).

Priority is enabling use of the result, so I am going to go work on that.

I?m very happy about this. Being able to contribute directly to enormous
forward progress on such a serious problem for AMSAT has been a highlight.

Ready for the next tough challenge so if you know of any send them my way :D

Michelle W5NYV





On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 20:27 Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:

> The application made it plain that our intent was to make the entire
> satellite design and software Open Source.
>
> It is interesting to note that the government form actually asks if you
> have any Open Source software in the product.
>
> I will leave it to ORI to decide whom to show the application. I have a
> copy, but no permission to disclose it.
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Bruce
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 8:25 PM Rich Gopstein <rich at ourowndomain.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The finding said nothing about open-source, so I don't understand how you
>> can claim this is a win for open-source.
>>
>> BTW -  I'd be thrilled if this did say something about the use of
>> open-source and ITAR, but it doesn't.
>>
>> Rich
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 9:56 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We have the actual ITAR rules to tell us about the public knowledge
>>> carve-out. We will receive further confirmation when we get a finding from
>>> Department of Commerce, and of course every time a project asks for such a
>>> finding there will be further confirmation. I don't think it will be
>>> necessary to make as few assumptions as you did in your company.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 17:21 Rich Gopstein <rich at ourowndomain.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bruce,
>>>>
>>>> Understood, however, the finding is very narrowly scoped - it only says
>>>> that your system is not covered by ITAR.  It doesn't say why.  You believe
>>>> it's related to the open-source nature of your system, however the finding *doesn't
>>>> say that.*
>>>>
>>>> I worked for 28+ years in a field that was regulated by the US
>>>> government.  We on occasion also asked for findings on various things.  We
>>>> were NEVER allowed to make assumptions about the finding.  You could only
>>>> go by what the finding said.  And in your case, it's only that your system
>>>> is not covered by ITAR - nothing about *why* it's not covered. Because
>>>> of that, you can't generalize about other systems being covered or not.  It
>>>> may seem illogical, but that's the way the US regulatory system works.
>>>>
>>>> Rich
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:18 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Rich,
>>>>>
>>>>> The most important thing here is that the DoD finding is *not
>>>>> permission* - it is a finding that your project wasn't *ever* subject
>>>>> to ITAR. This is thus useful to other projects that use the same Open
>>>>> Source strategy.
>>>>>
>>>>> A finding is useful for risk-reduction, in that you can wave it at the
>>>>> court and annoying FBI folks (they have harassed AMSAT developers in the
>>>>> past) and you can use this one as a precedent if you are making a request
>>>>> for another program in which you use the same strategies.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>     Bruce
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 2:59 PM Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB <
>>>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Michelle,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's great news, but isn't that ruling only applicable to the
>>>>>> specific
>>>>>> system that you asked about (digital microwave broadband...)?  It's
>>>>>> not a
>>>>>> general finding that applies to anything else, right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rich, KD2CQ
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 12:24 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>>>>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> https://openresearch.institute/2020/08/18/cj-determination-open-source-satellite-work-is-free-of-itar/
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > The United States Department of State has ruled favorably on Open
>>>>>> Research
>>>>>> > Institute's commodity jurisdiction request, finding that specified
>>>>>> > ?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave Broadband
>>>>>> Communications
>>>>>> > System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio Use? is definitely
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> > subject to State Department jurisdiction under ITAR, the
>>>>>> International
>>>>>> > Traffic in Arms Regulations. This is an important step toward
>>>>>> reducing the
>>>>>> > burden of regulations restricting international cooperation on
>>>>>> amateur
>>>>>> > satellite projects, which have impeded engineering work by amateurs
>>>>>> in the
>>>>>> > United States for decades.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Export regulations divide both technical information and actual
>>>>>> hardware
>>>>>> > into three categories. The most heavily restricted technologies
>>>>>> fall under
>>>>>> > ITAR, which is administered by the State Department. Technologies
>>>>>> subject
>>>>>> > to more routine restrictions fall under EAR, the Export
>>>>>> Administration
>>>>>> > Regulations, administered by the Department of Commerce.
>>>>>> Technologies that
>>>>>> > are not subject to either set of regulations are not restricted for
>>>>>> export.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On 20 February 2020, Open Research Institute (ORI) filed a Commodity
>>>>>> > Jurisdiction (CJ) Request with the US State Department, seeking to
>>>>>> > establish that key technologies for amateur radio are not subject
>>>>>> to State
>>>>>> > Department jurisdiction. ?Information and Software for a Digital
>>>>>> Microwave
>>>>>> > Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur
>>>>>> Radio
>>>>>> > Use? was assigned the case number CJ0003120. On 11 August 2020, the
>>>>>> case
>>>>>> > received a successful final determination: the technology is not
>>>>>> subject to
>>>>>> > State Department jurisdiction. This is the best possible outcome of
>>>>>> a CJ
>>>>>> > request.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > The Final Determination letter can be found at
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/08/CJ-0003120-Final-Determination-Letter.pdf
>>>>>> > .
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Under this determination, the technologies are subject to the EAR.
>>>>>> The next
>>>>>> > step is to submit a classification request to the Commerce
>>>>>> Department. ORI
>>>>>> > anticipates that the Commerce Department will find that these
>>>>>> technologies
>>>>>> > are unrestricted under the carve-out for open source in the EAR.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Open Research Institute (ORI) is a non-profit research and
>>>>>> development
>>>>>> > organization which provides all of its work to the general public
>>>>>> under the
>>>>>> > principles of Open Source and Open Access to Research.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > This work was accomplished by a team of dedicated and competent
>>>>>> open source
>>>>>> > volunteers. The effort was initiated by Bruce Perens K6BP and lead
>>>>>> by
>>>>>> > Michelle Thompson W5NYV.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Open Research Institute developed the ideas behind the Commodity
>>>>>> > Jurisdiction request, hired Thomsen and Burke LLP (https://t-b.com/)
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> > expert legal advice, organized the revisions of the document, and
>>>>>> invited
>>>>>> > organizations and individuals with amateur satellite service
>>>>>> interests to
>>>>>> > join or support the request.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > ORI thanks Libre Space Foundation and Dr. Daniel Estevez for
>>>>>> providing
>>>>>> > their subject matter expertise and written testimony, and JAMSAT for
>>>>>> > helpful encouragement and support.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > The legal costs were fully reimbursed with a generous grant from
>>>>>> Amateur
>>>>>> > Radio Digital Communications (ARDC). See
>>>>>> > https://www.ampr.org/grants/grant-open-research-institute/.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > ARDC and ORI share a vision of clearly establishing open source as
>>>>>> the best
>>>>>> > and safest way to accomplish technical volunteer work in amateur
>>>>>> radio.
>>>>>> > This final determination letter provides solid support for that
>>>>>> vision. The
>>>>>> > determination enables the development of implementation guidelines
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> > will allow free international collaboration.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > This clears the path for a number of interesting projects
>>>>>> facilitating new
>>>>>> > methods for terrestrial and satellite communications, opening the
>>>>>> door to
>>>>>> > robust global digital amateur communications.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Questions and inquiries to ori at openresearch.institute
>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>>>>> available
>>>>>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>>>> Opinions
>>>>>> > expressed
>>>>>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>>>>> views of
>>>>>> > AMSAT-NA.
>>>>>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>>>> program!
>>>>>> > Subscription settings:
>>>>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>>>> Opinions expressed
>>>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>>>>> of AMSAT-NA.
>>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>>>> program!
>>>>>> Subscription settings:
>>>>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
>>>>> eventually :-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>
> --
> Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
> :-)
>
-- 
-Michelle W5NYV

"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."

From bruce at perens.com  Wed Aug 19 04:17:43 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 21:17:43 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2WbHT7r6wona4KkHyzCyGU0202L6yWATJM96o6y=Uf1nA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeaorbVqBAi7+XeMRu6+81_5gybm7jRfdvaXCxQAdb+iRxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtDSAuNCLbw8XuXL96Xhy6bh9xnbrA13M1Mpc_gieKghQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeapC4E6yPgczN_fuW4ZPeCHPQutM8296y3DwoWdzAYHtHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOu_ff9Nd5wyiv6Y3knT_HsaQtb16uxRFsuPBEQ6HhT4WQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeao2OqZZ8q3t+g66GMJmexD76Hyp130eRtJT59UrC_wqOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtfPXOpdFFPHSOWPjHN7_cS_xGLyGR+Q=+hem=cdrH5tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2WbHT7r6wona4KkHyzCyGU0202L6yWATJM96o6y=Uf1nA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOuRYb1z5eA-GC0zNW2NocnbyoMV9yHz7-_W_8Z9kaz87Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 9:08 PM Michelle Thompson <
mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don?t want to dump the application on the internet without a clear ok
> from the firm. I?ll ask (again).
>

It's important to ask the lawyers the right question. Tell them we want to
be able to assure people that this is about the Open Source policy, not
simply that DoD finds nothing to worry about in our technical description
of the satellite. Let them figure out the best way to do that.

It would be a shame for AMSAT to choose not to use this strategy, but
mostly for AMSAT. ORI will be using it, and I think it will catch on in
colleges.

    Thanks

    Bruce

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 04:34:17 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 21:34:17 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOuRYb1z5eA-GC0zNW2NocnbyoMV9yHz7-_W_8Z9kaz87Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeaorbVqBAi7+XeMRu6+81_5gybm7jRfdvaXCxQAdb+iRxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtDSAuNCLbw8XuXL96Xhy6bh9xnbrA13M1Mpc_gieKghQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeapC4E6yPgczN_fuW4ZPeCHPQutM8296y3DwoWdzAYHtHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOu_ff9Nd5wyiv6Y3knT_HsaQtb16uxRFsuPBEQ6HhT4WQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeao2OqZZ8q3t+g66GMJmexD76Hyp130eRtJT59UrC_wqOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtfPXOpdFFPHSOWPjHN7_cS_xGLyGR+Q=+hem=cdrH5tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2WbHT7r6wona4KkHyzCyGU0202L6yWATJM96o6y=Uf1nA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOuRYb1z5eA-GC0zNW2NocnbyoMV9yHz7-_W_8Z9kaz87Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2UhA6QSEBVMzcbd=ZntG0izYdev1B=AsuKxP7Z7JpL-NA@mail.gmail.com>

Understand, and will do as soon as it can be scheduled.

Thanks so much for all the help.

-Michelle W5NYV

On Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 21:17 Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 9:08 PM Michelle Thompson <
> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I don?t want to dump the application on the internet without a clear ok
>> from the firm. I?ll ask (again).
>>
>
> It's important to ask the lawyers the right question. Tell them we want to
> be able to assure people that this is about the Open Source policy, not
> simply that DoD finds nothing to worry about in our technical description
> of the satellite. Let them figure out the best way to do that.
>
> It would be a shame for AMSAT to choose not to use this strategy, but
> mostly for AMSAT. ORI will be using it, and I think it will catch on in
> colleges.
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Bruce
>

From rich at ourowndomain.com  Wed Aug 19 11:31:01 2020
From: rich at ourowndomain.com (Rich Gopstein)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 07:31:01 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2UhA6QSEBVMzcbd=ZntG0izYdev1B=AsuKxP7Z7JpL-NA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeaorbVqBAi7+XeMRu6+81_5gybm7jRfdvaXCxQAdb+iRxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtDSAuNCLbw8XuXL96Xhy6bh9xnbrA13M1Mpc_gieKghQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeapC4E6yPgczN_fuW4ZPeCHPQutM8296y3DwoWdzAYHtHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOu_ff9Nd5wyiv6Y3knT_HsaQtb16uxRFsuPBEQ6HhT4WQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeao2OqZZ8q3t+g66GMJmexD76Hyp130eRtJT59UrC_wqOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtfPXOpdFFPHSOWPjHN7_cS_xGLyGR+Q=+hem=cdrH5tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2WbHT7r6wona4KkHyzCyGU0202L6yWATJM96o6y=Uf1nA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOuRYb1z5eA-GC0zNW2NocnbyoMV9yHz7-_W_8Z9kaz87Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2UhA6QSEBVMzcbd=ZntG0izYdev1B=AsuKxP7Z7JpL-NA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANsNeaqieQ877PJ2yjEaVDXy13e=xe-BeTBARGwtvm0LV0FJFA@mail.gmail.com>

Michelle,

It would be particularly helpful to ask the lawyers to clarify whether this
finding can be directly applied to other open source amateur radio
satellite projects.  Posting their answer would help us determine whether
your result is applicable to our projects.

Rich, KD2CQ


On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 12:34 AM Michelle Thompson <
mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:

> Understand, and will do as soon as it can be scheduled.
>
> Thanks so much for all the help.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 21:17 Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 9:08 PM Michelle Thompson <
>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I don?t want to dump the application on the internet without a clear ok
>>> from the firm. I?ll ask (again).
>>>
>>
>> It's important to ask the lawyers the right question. Tell them we want
>> to be able to assure people that this is about the Open Source policy, not
>> simply that DoD finds nothing to worry about in our technical description
>> of the satellite. Let them figure out the best way to do that.
>>
>> It would be a shame for AMSAT to choose not to use this strategy, but
>> mostly for AMSAT. ORI will be using it, and I think it will catch on in
>> colleges.
>>
>>     Thanks
>>
>>     Bruce
>>
>

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 13:26:59 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:26:59 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2XJXBNXj9Wwy_B7QfsKZ0-MkHHzxhBx=OckUbMM_QZu2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_ov12dpaeP3QdTPZ9_QDBbNMdncOVEC_APvSoMfzp17g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XJXBNXj9Wwy_B7QfsKZ0-MkHHzxhBx=OckUbMM_QZu2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c-VK-+XATBQ-EexkfnQLm81RxhQkd_AwYCudiMHjT1gCA@mail.gmail.com>

Michelle,


Standby.  The community has absolutely no reason, whatsoever to trust any
guidelines your group is publishing, unless the community is given direct
insight into the request itself and all direct communications with the
DDTC, so that the context and realities of the determination can be
validated.  What i'm asking for here is not inappropriate, given the
history, context or claims being made.


This, "Just trust what we say we did", is Not Transparent and does not
instill confidence in anyone about what is going on.  I do, on the other
hand, have Hope, that the claims being made are supported.


I will say though, I actually laughed out loud when I read "Information
contained in CJ requests is not usually made public. The law firm would not
file it unless it was presented to the State Department as private and
confidential."  Because, C'mon.. noone in their right mind is going to read
that and say "oh yeah!" and agree that they should just turn their brains
off to the actual request.


With respects to the first sentence, the reality is that most companies
dealing with the DDTC are exporting defense articles and services.  As a
result, there's usually a contractual need (and could be a real life/death
reason) to keep the communications with the DDTC, confidential.  Because
the intent here is not to manufacture/export defense articles or services,
there should be no harm in the request being made public.  I mean, I
believe everyone on the -bb would unanimously Want to see it.   On the
second sentence, I have an attorney on retainer for my business and I could
easily go to them and say "All communications between parties A and B for
this effort will be placed into the public domain, in support of an
outreach effort going on with this charity, so treat it that way".  And,
that's what would happen, because, that's what I would be paying them to
do.  In addition, I am free to take my legal business elsewhere if-need-be
and I do not have to beg, plead, or pay for any release.  Sometimes, having
a second set of legal eyes on legal work products is a good thing.  I would
not have the firm file on my behalf with the DDTC, because there's really
no need.  That's giving them more power and responsibility in the process
than they actually need.  I'd use them more as support personnel /
consultants on an as-needed basis, vs the directors of the effort that you
now have to beg for a release (of your own information...)  This sounds
like a disaster.


The contents of a CJ request is private and confidential if and only if the
submitting party treats it that way.


Joseph Armbruster

KJ4JIO




On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 11:23 PM Michelle Thompson <
mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, Joseph, it?s amazing news and It is just as good as advertised.
>
> The result is of enormous and direct benefit to AMSAT.
>
> AMSAT was asked to join the request. I sent a paper letter, wrote the
> board, brought it up during the 2019 annual board meeting, and published an
> open letter. I did all I could to enable the full participation of the one
> organization that stands to benefit the most from this determination.
>
> But, the men you voted for did not respond, at all.
>
> It took a year of very hard work. It?s a gift to the community. It can
> restore free and open international collaboration.
>
> That?s it. There?s no tricks or gotchas. It is what it is claimed to be.
>
> I would have done the same work and raised the same money if AMSAT had
> wanted their name on it. I would be just as proud and would be saying the
> same things. When work needs to be done, it needs to be done.
>
> Information contained in CJ requests is not usually made public. The law
> firm would not file it unless it was presented to the State Department as
> private and confidential. This advice was because virtually all requests
> are for proprietary programs and products. Sticking out in this regard, by
> doing something they advised strongly against, would not work to our
> advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the wrong
> hill.
>
> Additionally, the law firm does not want their work products or email
> correspondence published. We will honor that. We want to work with them
> again. They were fantastic, recommended by EFF, and 100% supportive of open
> source.
>
> Fortunately, *everything* that went into the request is already public
> information. All our designs, details, policies, procedures, definitions,
> diagrams, and code are available to the general public free of charge,
> today. That?s the primary reason it succeeded. We already follow the law
> with respect to public domain carve outs and publishing requirements. The
> final determination shows the value of this approach.
>
> AMSAT can do this too. There is literally no reason not to. This is the
> game changer people have been waiting for.
>
> *All* of what *anyone* will need to know to take full advantage will be
> published in a set of implementation guidelines.
>
> This is the single best risk reduction for AMSAT volunteers that exists in
> US law. It is the gold standard. We have access as a community to this
> result because a team of very committed and competent people made it happen
> and are now going to make it easy to use.
>
> Want to contribute to the guidelines? Participants are welcome.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 18:01 Joseph Armbruster <
> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Michelle,
>>
>> This is quite interesting, indeed!  However, from your press release, I
>> really have no clue what "Information and Software for a Digital Microwave
>> Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio
>> Use", means (in terms of the legalese, definitions and proper nouns used,
>> etc...).  Depending on how they were defined, the determination may or may
>> not be directly relevant to AMSAT or anyone else for that matter...  And
>> just to be clear, i'm not trying to be a spoiler here or anything, this
>> could be really amazing news, or nothing more than a null determination
>> that sounds great in a headline but really means nothing.  I think Everyone
>> would welcome relaxed ITAR constraints on AMSAT engineers, in any
>> way, shape or form...  That being said, this begs the question, is the Form
>> DS-4076 and all supplemental materials, along with all written
>> communications with the DOS/DDTC concerning this matter, being made
>> public?  I think this would be absolutely necessary for anyone on the list
>> to get excited about this, in any way, shape or form.  I looked on the ORI
>> website and couldn't find anything around Feb 2020 (per the date the
>> indicated submission was made per the AUG11 reply from the DDTC).
>>
>> Although, I am not a particular fan of ORI so-far, which is why I voted
>> for Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer....
>>
>> I do commend any individual or entity that is able and willing to deal
>> with the DOS or DDTC.  It takes a lot of time and $.  At one point, my
>> business helped develop parts of a research UAV for a foreign military on a
>> high-altitude balloon, which included a wireless network.  One export
>> permit took over six months, with back-and-forths with questions and
>> clarifications, questions and clarifications, more questions and
>> clarifications... on and on and on...  Just because they say you can
>> produce Information and Software for a widget (however those are defined),
>> it doesn't necessarily mean you can actually get a permit to ship the
>> hardware with the software on it, anywhere.  Because the 'Information and
>> Software' (however defined), may not govern the hardware used.  In my case,
>> there were special accelerometers and gyros, that you don't purchase
>> without providing a lot of information.  So, no matter what software was
>> written to drive them, if you shipped them out of the country without a
>> permit, look out!  I remember finally getting my first export permit and
>> shipping label and putting it on the box and sending some hardware out.  It
>> was just a sticky label that went on a box, but wow, it wasn't easy.
>>
>> It sure would be nice if ITAR was less of an issue but the devil's really
>> in the details here...
>>
>> Joseph Armbruster
>> KJ4JIO
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 12:29 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR
>>>
>>>
>>> https://openresearch.institute/2020/08/18/cj-determination-open-source-satellite-work-is-free-of-itar/
>>>
>>> The United States Department of State has ruled favorably on Open
>>> Research
>>> Institute's commodity jurisdiction request, finding that specified
>>> ?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave Broadband
>>> Communications
>>> System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio Use? is definitely not
>>> subject to State Department jurisdiction under ITAR, the International
>>> Traffic in Arms Regulations. This is an important step toward reducing
>>> the
>>> burden of regulations restricting international cooperation on amateur
>>> satellite projects, which have impeded engineering work by amateurs in
>>> the
>>> United States for decades.
>>>
>>> Export regulations divide both technical information and actual hardware
>>> into three categories. The most heavily restricted technologies fall
>>> under
>>> ITAR, which is administered by the State Department. Technologies subject
>>> to more routine restrictions fall under EAR, the Export Administration
>>> Regulations, administered by the Department of Commerce. Technologies
>>> that
>>> are not subject to either set of regulations are not restricted for
>>> export.
>>>
>>> On 20 February 2020, Open Research Institute (ORI) filed a Commodity
>>> Jurisdiction (CJ) Request with the US State Department, seeking to
>>> establish that key technologies for amateur radio are not subject to
>>> State
>>> Department jurisdiction. ?Information and Software for a Digital
>>> Microwave
>>> Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio
>>> Use? was assigned the case number CJ0003120. On 11 August 2020, the case
>>> received a successful final determination: the technology is not subject
>>> to
>>> State Department jurisdiction. This is the best possible outcome of a CJ
>>> request.
>>>
>>> The Final Determination letter can be found at
>>>
>>> https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/08/CJ-0003120-Final-Determination-Letter.pdf
>>> .
>>>
>>> Under this determination, the technologies are subject to the EAR. The
>>> next
>>> step is to submit a classification request to the Commerce Department.
>>> ORI
>>> anticipates that the Commerce Department will find that these
>>> technologies
>>> are unrestricted under the carve-out for open source in the EAR.
>>>
>>> Open Research Institute (ORI) is a non-profit research and development
>>> organization which provides all of its work to the general public under
>>> the
>>> principles of Open Source and Open Access to Research.
>>>
>>> This work was accomplished by a team of dedicated and competent open
>>> source
>>> volunteers. The effort was initiated by Bruce Perens K6BP and lead by
>>> Michelle Thompson W5NYV.
>>>
>>> Open Research Institute developed the ideas behind the Commodity
>>> Jurisdiction request, hired Thomsen and Burke LLP (https://t-b.com/) for
>>> expert legal advice, organized the revisions of the document, and invited
>>> organizations and individuals with amateur satellite service interests to
>>> join or support the request.
>>>
>>> ORI thanks Libre Space Foundation and Dr. Daniel Estevez for providing
>>> their subject matter expertise and written testimony, and JAMSAT for
>>> helpful encouragement and support.
>>>
>>> The legal costs were fully reimbursed with a generous grant from Amateur
>>> Radio Digital Communications (ARDC). See
>>> https://www.ampr.org/grants/grant-open-research-institute/.
>>>
>>> ARDC and ORI share a vision of clearly establishing open source as the
>>> best
>>> and safest way to accomplish technical volunteer work in amateur radio.
>>> This final determination letter provides solid support for that vision.
>>> The
>>> determination enables the development of implementation guidelines that
>>> will allow free international collaboration.
>>>
>>> This clears the path for a number of interesting projects facilitating
>>> new
>>> methods for terrestrial and satellite communications, opening the door to
>>> robust global digital amateur communications.
>>>
>>> Questions and inquiries to ori at openresearch.institute
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>> --
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
> "Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
>
>

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 14:02:19 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 07:02:19 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c-VK-+XATBQ-EexkfnQLm81RxhQkd_AwYCudiMHjT1gCA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_ov12dpaeP3QdTPZ9_QDBbNMdncOVEC_APvSoMfzp17g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XJXBNXj9Wwy_B7QfsKZ0-MkHHzxhBx=OckUbMM_QZu2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-VK-+XATBQ-EexkfnQLm81RxhQkd_AwYCudiMHjT1gCA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2URcX=hdNmtFfb55J7GrsqLDkwzKp1HM=bXWm3+7vYvAA@mail.gmail.com>

Again, all information used in the request is already public.

Again, the policies used to make the succesful request are also already
public and in use.

You are spilling a lot of ink  asking for things to be shared that have
already been shared. I've already said I will ask the firm what can be
released.

The final determination is of enormous benefit to AMSAT and many other
organizations. The request was deliberately designed that way, and it
worked.

Time to put it to work for AMSAT.

And celebrate! :+)

-Michelle W5NYV



On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 06:24 Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Michelle,
>
>
> Standby.  The community has absolutely no reason, whatsoever to trust any
> guidelines your group is publishing, unless the community is given direct
> insight into the request itself and all direct communications with the
> DDTC, so that the context and realities of the determination can be
> validated.  What i'm asking for here is not inappropriate, given the
> history, context or claims being made.
>
>
> This, "Just trust what we say we did", is Not Transparent and does not
> instill confidence in anyone about what is going on.  I do, on the other
> hand, have Hope, that the claims being made are supported.
>
>
> I will say though, I actually laughed out loud when I read "Information
> contained in CJ requests is not usually made public. The law firm would not
> file it unless it was presented to the State Department as private and
> confidential."  Because, C'mon.. noone in their right mind is going to
> read that and say "oh yeah!" and agree that they should just turn their
> brains off to the actual request.
>
>
> With respects to the first sentence, the reality is that most companies
> dealing with the DDTC are exporting defense articles and services.  As a
> result, there's usually a contractual need (and could be a real life/death
> reason) to keep the communications with the DDTC, confidential.  Because
> the intent here is not to manufacture/export defense articles or services,
> there should be no harm in the request being made public.  I mean, I
> believe everyone on the -bb would unanimously Want to see it.   On the
> second sentence, I have an attorney on retainer for my business and I could
> easily go to them and say "All communications between parties A and B for
> this effort will be placed into the public domain, in support of an
> outreach effort going on with this charity, so treat it that way".  And,
> that's what would happen, because, that's what I would be paying them to
> do.  In addition, I am free to take my legal business elsewhere if-need-be
> and I do not have to beg, plead, or pay for any release.  Sometimes, having
> a second set of legal eyes on legal work products is a good thing.  I would
> not have the firm file on my behalf with the DDTC, because there's really
> no need.  That's giving them more power and responsibility in the process
> than they actually need.  I'd use them more as support personnel /
> consultants on an as-needed basis, vs the directors of the effort that you
> now have to beg for a release (of your own information...)  This sounds
> like a disaster.
>
>
> The contents of a CJ request is private and confidential if and only if
> the submitting party treats it that way.
>
>
> Joseph Armbruster
>
> KJ4JIO
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 11:23 PM Michelle Thompson <
> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes, Joseph, it?s amazing news and It is just as good as advertised.
>>
>> The result is of enormous and direct benefit to AMSAT.
>>
>> AMSAT was asked to join the request. I sent a paper letter, wrote the
>> board, brought it up during the 2019 annual board meeting, and published an
>> open letter. I did all I could to enable the full participation of the one
>> organization that stands to benefit the most from this determination.
>>
>> But, the men you voted for did not respond, at all.
>>
>> It took a year of very hard work. It?s a gift to the community. It can
>> restore free and open international collaboration.
>>
>> That?s it. There?s no tricks or gotchas. It is what it is claimed to be.
>>
>> I would have done the same work and raised the same money if AMSAT had
>> wanted their name on it. I would be just as proud and would be saying the
>> same things. When work needs to be done, it needs to be done.
>>
>> Information contained in CJ requests is not usually made public. The law
>> firm would not file it unless it was presented to the State Department as
>> private and confidential. This advice was because virtually all requests
>> are for proprietary programs and products. Sticking out in this regard, by
>> doing something they advised strongly against, would not work to our
>> advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the wrong
>> hill.
>>
>> Additionally, the law firm does not want their work products or email
>> correspondence published. We will honor that. We want to work with them
>> again. They were fantastic, recommended by EFF, and 100% supportive of open
>> source.
>>
>> Fortunately, *everything* that went into the request is already public
>> information. All our designs, details, policies, procedures, definitions,
>> diagrams, and code are available to the general public free of charge,
>> today. That?s the primary reason it succeeded. We already follow the law
>> with respect to public domain carve outs and publishing requirements. The
>> final determination shows the value of this approach.
>>
>> AMSAT can do this too. There is literally no reason not to. This is the
>> game changer people have been waiting for.
>>
>> *All* of what *anyone* will need to know to take full advantage will be
>> published in a set of implementation guidelines.
>>
>> This is the single best risk reduction for AMSAT volunteers that exists
>> in US law. It is the gold standard. We have access as a community to this
>> result because a team of very committed and competent people made it happen
>> and are now going to make it easy to use.
>>
>> Want to contribute to the guidelines? Participants are welcome.
>>
>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 18:01 Joseph Armbruster <
>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Michelle,
>>>
>>> This is quite interesting, indeed!  However, from your press release, I
>>> really have no clue what "Information and Software for a Digital Microwave
>>> Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio
>>> Use", means (in terms of the legalese, definitions and proper nouns used,
>>> etc...).  Depending on how they were defined, the determination may or may
>>> not be directly relevant to AMSAT or anyone else for that matter...  And
>>> just to be clear, i'm not trying to be a spoiler here or anything, this
>>> could be really amazing news, or nothing more than a null determination
>>> that sounds great in a headline but really means nothing.  I think Everyone
>>> would welcome relaxed ITAR constraints on AMSAT engineers, in any
>>> way, shape or form...  That being said, this begs the question, is the Form
>>> DS-4076 and all supplemental materials, along with all written
>>> communications with the DOS/DDTC concerning this matter, being made
>>> public?  I think this would be absolutely necessary for anyone on the list
>>> to get excited about this, in any way, shape or form.  I looked on the ORI
>>> website and couldn't find anything around Feb 2020 (per the date the
>>> indicated submission was made per the AUG11 reply from the DDTC).
>>>
>>> Although, I am not a particular fan of ORI so-far, which is why I voted
>>> for Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer....
>>>
>>> I do commend any individual or entity that is able and willing to deal
>>> with the DOS or DDTC.  It takes a lot of time and $.  At one point, my
>>> business helped develop parts of a research UAV for a foreign military on a
>>> high-altitude balloon, which included a wireless network.  One export
>>> permit took over six months, with back-and-forths with questions and
>>> clarifications, questions and clarifications, more questions and
>>> clarifications... on and on and on...  Just because they say you can
>>> produce Information and Software for a widget (however those are defined),
>>> it doesn't necessarily mean you can actually get a permit to ship the
>>> hardware with the software on it, anywhere.  Because the 'Information and
>>> Software' (however defined), may not govern the hardware used.  In my case,
>>> there were special accelerometers and gyros, that you don't purchase
>>> without providing a lot of information.  So, no matter what software was
>>> written to drive them, if you shipped them out of the country without a
>>> permit, look out!  I remember finally getting my first export permit and
>>> shipping label and putting it on the box and sending some hardware out.  It
>>> was just a sticky label that went on a box, but wow, it wasn't easy.
>>>
>>> It sure would be nice if ITAR was less of an issue but the devil's
>>> really in the details here...
>>>
>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>> KJ4JIO
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 12:29 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://openresearch.institute/2020/08/18/cj-determination-open-source-satellite-work-is-free-of-itar/
>>>>
>>>> The United States Department of State has ruled favorably on Open
>>>> Research
>>>> Institute's commodity jurisdiction request, finding that specified
>>>> ?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave Broadband
>>>> Communications
>>>> System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio Use? is definitely not
>>>> subject to State Department jurisdiction under ITAR, the International
>>>> Traffic in Arms Regulations. This is an important step toward reducing
>>>> the
>>>> burden of regulations restricting international cooperation on amateur
>>>> satellite projects, which have impeded engineering work by amateurs in
>>>> the
>>>> United States for decades.
>>>>
>>>> Export regulations divide both technical information and actual hardware
>>>> into three categories. The most heavily restricted technologies fall
>>>> under
>>>> ITAR, which is administered by the State Department. Technologies
>>>> subject
>>>> to more routine restrictions fall under EAR, the Export Administration
>>>> Regulations, administered by the Department of Commerce. Technologies
>>>> that
>>>> are not subject to either set of regulations are not restricted for
>>>> export.
>>>>
>>>> On 20 February 2020, Open Research Institute (ORI) filed a Commodity
>>>> Jurisdiction (CJ) Request with the US State Department, seeking to
>>>> establish that key technologies for amateur radio are not subject to
>>>> State
>>>> Department jurisdiction. ?Information and Software for a Digital
>>>> Microwave
>>>> Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio
>>>> Use? was assigned the case number CJ0003120. On 11 August 2020, the case
>>>> received a successful final determination: the technology is not
>>>> subject to
>>>> State Department jurisdiction. This is the best possible outcome of a CJ
>>>> request.
>>>>
>>>> The Final Determination letter can be found at
>>>>
>>>> https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/08/CJ-0003120-Final-Determination-Letter.pdf
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>> Under this determination, the technologies are subject to the EAR. The
>>>> next
>>>> step is to submit a classification request to the Commerce Department.
>>>> ORI
>>>> anticipates that the Commerce Department will find that these
>>>> technologies
>>>> are unrestricted under the carve-out for open source in the EAR.
>>>>
>>>> Open Research Institute (ORI) is a non-profit research and development
>>>> organization which provides all of its work to the general public under
>>>> the
>>>> principles of Open Source and Open Access to Research.
>>>>
>>>> This work was accomplished by a team of dedicated and competent open
>>>> source
>>>> volunteers. The effort was initiated by Bruce Perens K6BP and lead by
>>>> Michelle Thompson W5NYV.
>>>>
>>>> Open Research Institute developed the ideas behind the Commodity
>>>> Jurisdiction request, hired Thomsen and Burke LLP (https://t-b.com/)
>>>> for
>>>> expert legal advice, organized the revisions of the document, and
>>>> invited
>>>> organizations and individuals with amateur satellite service interests
>>>> to
>>>> join or support the request.
>>>>
>>>> ORI thanks Libre Space Foundation and Dr. Daniel Estevez for providing
>>>> their subject matter expertise and written testimony, and JAMSAT for
>>>> helpful encouragement and support.
>>>>
>>>> The legal costs were fully reimbursed with a generous grant from Amateur
>>>> Radio Digital Communications (ARDC). See
>>>> https://www.ampr.org/grants/grant-open-research-institute/.
>>>>
>>>> ARDC and ORI share a vision of clearly establishing open source as the
>>>> best
>>>> and safest way to accomplish technical volunteer work in amateur radio.
>>>> This final determination letter provides solid support for that vision.
>>>> The
>>>> determination enables the development of implementation guidelines that
>>>> will allow free international collaboration.
>>>>
>>>> This clears the path for a number of interesting projects facilitating
>>>> new
>>>> methods for terrestrial and satellite communications, opening the door
>>>> to
>>>> robust global digital amateur communications.
>>>>
>>>> Questions and inquiries to ori at openresearch.institute
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>> Opinions expressed
>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>>> of AMSAT-NA.
>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>> program!
>>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>
>>> --
>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>
>> "Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
>>
>>

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 14:11:27 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 10:11:27 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2URcX=hdNmtFfb55J7GrsqLDkwzKp1HM=bXWm3+7vYvAA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_ov12dpaeP3QdTPZ9_QDBbNMdncOVEC_APvSoMfzp17g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XJXBNXj9Wwy_B7QfsKZ0-MkHHzxhBx=OckUbMM_QZu2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-VK-+XATBQ-EexkfnQLm81RxhQkd_AwYCudiMHjT1gCA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2URcX=hdNmtFfb55J7GrsqLDkwzKp1HM=bXWm3+7vYvAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c_jsYk+jeD7Ps3hQWhwH2eRpASGCzF9S2EqR7RH4yVnzA@mail.gmail.com>

Michelle,

Public link to a copy of the submitted form DS-4076 (and supplemental
materials if-any)?

Public link to a copy of all communications with the DDTC?

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO

On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 10:02 AM Michelle Thompson <
mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:

> Again, all information used in the request is already public.
>
> Again, the policies used to make the succesful request are also already
> public and in use.
>
> You are spilling a lot of ink  asking for things to be shared that have
> already been shared. I've already said I will ask the firm what can be
> released.
>
> The final determination is of enormous benefit to AMSAT and many other
> organizations. The request was deliberately designed that way, and it
> worked.
>
> Time to put it to work for AMSAT.
>
> And celebrate! :+)
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 06:24 Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Michelle,
>>
>>
>> Standby.  The community has absolutely no reason, whatsoever to trust any
>> guidelines your group is publishing, unless the community is given direct
>> insight into the request itself and all direct communications with the
>> DDTC, so that the context and realities of the determination can be
>> validated.  What i'm asking for here is not inappropriate, given the
>> history, context or claims being made.
>>
>>
>> This, "Just trust what we say we did", is Not Transparent and does not
>> instill confidence in anyone about what is going on.  I do, on the other
>> hand, have Hope, that the claims being made are supported.
>>
>>
>> I will say though, I actually laughed out loud when I read "Information
>> contained in CJ requests is not usually made public. The law firm would not
>> file it unless it was presented to the State Department as private and
>> confidential."  Because, C'mon.. noone in their right mind is going to
>> read that and say "oh yeah!" and agree that they should just turn their
>> brains off to the actual request.
>>
>>
>> With respects to the first sentence, the reality is that most companies
>> dealing with the DDTC are exporting defense articles and services.  As a
>> result, there's usually a contractual need (and could be a real life/death
>> reason) to keep the communications with the DDTC, confidential.  Because
>> the intent here is not to manufacture/export defense articles or services,
>> there should be no harm in the request being made public.  I mean, I
>> believe everyone on the -bb would unanimously Want to see it.   On the
>> second sentence, I have an attorney on retainer for my business and I could
>> easily go to them and say "All communications between parties A and B for
>> this effort will be placed into the public domain, in support of an
>> outreach effort going on with this charity, so treat it that way".  And,
>> that's what would happen, because, that's what I would be paying them to
>> do.  In addition, I am free to take my legal business elsewhere if-need-be
>> and I do not have to beg, plead, or pay for any release.  Sometimes, having
>> a second set of legal eyes on legal work products is a good thing.  I would
>> not have the firm file on my behalf with the DDTC, because there's really
>> no need.  That's giving them more power and responsibility in the process
>> than they actually need.  I'd use them more as support personnel /
>> consultants on an as-needed basis, vs the directors of the effort that you
>> now have to beg for a release (of your own information...)  This sounds
>> like a disaster.
>>
>>
>> The contents of a CJ request is private and confidential if and only if
>> the submitting party treats it that way.
>>
>>
>> Joseph Armbruster
>>
>> KJ4JIO
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 11:23 PM Michelle Thompson <
>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, Joseph, it?s amazing news and It is just as good as advertised.
>>>
>>> The result is of enormous and direct benefit to AMSAT.
>>>
>>> AMSAT was asked to join the request. I sent a paper letter, wrote the
>>> board, brought it up during the 2019 annual board meeting, and published an
>>> open letter. I did all I could to enable the full participation of the one
>>> organization that stands to benefit the most from this determination.
>>>
>>> But, the men you voted for did not respond, at all.
>>>
>>> It took a year of very hard work. It?s a gift to the community. It can
>>> restore free and open international collaboration.
>>>
>>> That?s it. There?s no tricks or gotchas. It is what it is claimed to be.
>>>
>>> I would have done the same work and raised the same money if AMSAT had
>>> wanted their name on it. I would be just as proud and would be saying the
>>> same things. When work needs to be done, it needs to be done.
>>>
>>> Information contained in CJ requests is not usually made public. The law
>>> firm would not file it unless it was presented to the State Department as
>>> private and confidential. This advice was because virtually all requests
>>> are for proprietary programs and products. Sticking out in this regard, by
>>> doing something they advised strongly against, would not work to our
>>> advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the wrong
>>> hill.
>>>
>>> Additionally, the law firm does not want their work products or email
>>> correspondence published. We will honor that. We want to work with them
>>> again. They were fantastic, recommended by EFF, and 100% supportive of open
>>> source.
>>>
>>> Fortunately, *everything* that went into the request is already public
>>> information. All our designs, details, policies, procedures, definitions,
>>> diagrams, and code are available to the general public free of charge,
>>> today. That?s the primary reason it succeeded. We already follow the law
>>> with respect to public domain carve outs and publishing requirements. The
>>> final determination shows the value of this approach.
>>>
>>> AMSAT can do this too. There is literally no reason not to. This is the
>>> game changer people have been waiting for.
>>>
>>> *All* of what *anyone* will need to know to take full advantage will be
>>> published in a set of implementation guidelines.
>>>
>>> This is the single best risk reduction for AMSAT volunteers that exists
>>> in US law. It is the gold standard. We have access as a community to this
>>> result because a team of very committed and competent people made it happen
>>> and are now going to make it easy to use.
>>>
>>> Want to contribute to the guidelines? Participants are welcome.
>>>
>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 18:01 Joseph Armbruster <
>>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Michelle,
>>>>
>>>> This is quite interesting, indeed!  However, from your press release, I
>>>> really have no clue what "Information and Software for a Digital Microwave
>>>> Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio
>>>> Use", means (in terms of the legalese, definitions and proper nouns used,
>>>> etc...).  Depending on how they were defined, the determination may or may
>>>> not be directly relevant to AMSAT or anyone else for that matter...  And
>>>> just to be clear, i'm not trying to be a spoiler here or anything, this
>>>> could be really amazing news, or nothing more than a null determination
>>>> that sounds great in a headline but really means nothing.  I think Everyone
>>>> would welcome relaxed ITAR constraints on AMSAT engineers, in any
>>>> way, shape or form...  That being said, this begs the question, is the Form
>>>> DS-4076 and all supplemental materials, along with all written
>>>> communications with the DOS/DDTC concerning this matter, being made
>>>> public?  I think this would be absolutely necessary for anyone on the list
>>>> to get excited about this, in any way, shape or form.  I looked on the ORI
>>>> website and couldn't find anything around Feb 2020 (per the date the
>>>> indicated submission was made per the AUG11 reply from the DDTC).
>>>>
>>>> Although, I am not a particular fan of ORI so-far, which is why I voted
>>>> for Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer....
>>>>
>>>> I do commend any individual or entity that is able and willing to deal
>>>> with the DOS or DDTC.  It takes a lot of time and $.  At one point, my
>>>> business helped develop parts of a research UAV for a foreign military on a
>>>> high-altitude balloon, which included a wireless network.  One export
>>>> permit took over six months, with back-and-forths with questions and
>>>> clarifications, questions and clarifications, more questions and
>>>> clarifications... on and on and on...  Just because they say you can
>>>> produce Information and Software for a widget (however those are defined),
>>>> it doesn't necessarily mean you can actually get a permit to ship the
>>>> hardware with the software on it, anywhere.  Because the 'Information and
>>>> Software' (however defined), may not govern the hardware used.  In my case,
>>>> there were special accelerometers and gyros, that you don't purchase
>>>> without providing a lot of information.  So, no matter what software was
>>>> written to drive them, if you shipped them out of the country without a
>>>> permit, look out!  I remember finally getting my first export permit and
>>>> shipping label and putting it on the box and sending some hardware out.  It
>>>> was just a sticky label that went on a box, but wow, it wasn't easy.
>>>>
>>>> It sure would be nice if ITAR was less of an issue but the devil's
>>>> really in the details here...
>>>>
>>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>>> KJ4JIO
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 12:29 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://openresearch.institute/2020/08/18/cj-determination-open-source-satellite-work-is-free-of-itar/
>>>>>
>>>>> The United States Department of State has ruled favorably on Open
>>>>> Research
>>>>> Institute's commodity jurisdiction request, finding that specified
>>>>> ?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave Broadband
>>>>> Communications
>>>>> System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio Use? is definitely not
>>>>> subject to State Department jurisdiction under ITAR, the International
>>>>> Traffic in Arms Regulations. This is an important step toward reducing
>>>>> the
>>>>> burden of regulations restricting international cooperation on amateur
>>>>> satellite projects, which have impeded engineering work by amateurs in
>>>>> the
>>>>> United States for decades.
>>>>>
>>>>> Export regulations divide both technical information and actual
>>>>> hardware
>>>>> into three categories. The most heavily restricted technologies fall
>>>>> under
>>>>> ITAR, which is administered by the State Department. Technologies
>>>>> subject
>>>>> to more routine restrictions fall under EAR, the Export Administration
>>>>> Regulations, administered by the Department of Commerce. Technologies
>>>>> that
>>>>> are not subject to either set of regulations are not restricted for
>>>>> export.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 20 February 2020, Open Research Institute (ORI) filed a Commodity
>>>>> Jurisdiction (CJ) Request with the US State Department, seeking to
>>>>> establish that key technologies for amateur radio are not subject to
>>>>> State
>>>>> Department jurisdiction. ?Information and Software for a Digital
>>>>> Microwave
>>>>> Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio
>>>>> Use? was assigned the case number CJ0003120. On 11 August 2020, the
>>>>> case
>>>>> received a successful final determination: the technology is not
>>>>> subject to
>>>>> State Department jurisdiction. This is the best possible outcome of a
>>>>> CJ
>>>>> request.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Final Determination letter can be found at
>>>>>
>>>>> https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/08/CJ-0003120-Final-Determination-Letter.pdf
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>> Under this determination, the technologies are subject to the EAR. The
>>>>> next
>>>>> step is to submit a classification request to the Commerce Department.
>>>>> ORI
>>>>> anticipates that the Commerce Department will find that these
>>>>> technologies
>>>>> are unrestricted under the carve-out for open source in the EAR.
>>>>>
>>>>> Open Research Institute (ORI) is a non-profit research and development
>>>>> organization which provides all of its work to the general public
>>>>> under the
>>>>> principles of Open Source and Open Access to Research.
>>>>>
>>>>> This work was accomplished by a team of dedicated and competent open
>>>>> source
>>>>> volunteers. The effort was initiated by Bruce Perens K6BP and lead by
>>>>> Michelle Thompson W5NYV.
>>>>>
>>>>> Open Research Institute developed the ideas behind the Commodity
>>>>> Jurisdiction request, hired Thomsen and Burke LLP (https://t-b.com/)
>>>>> for
>>>>> expert legal advice, organized the revisions of the document, and
>>>>> invited
>>>>> organizations and individuals with amateur satellite service interests
>>>>> to
>>>>> join or support the request.
>>>>>
>>>>> ORI thanks Libre Space Foundation and Dr. Daniel Estevez for providing
>>>>> their subject matter expertise and written testimony, and JAMSAT for
>>>>> helpful encouragement and support.
>>>>>
>>>>> The legal costs were fully reimbursed with a generous grant from
>>>>> Amateur
>>>>> Radio Digital Communications (ARDC). See
>>>>> https://www.ampr.org/grants/grant-open-research-institute/.
>>>>>
>>>>> ARDC and ORI share a vision of clearly establishing open source as the
>>>>> best
>>>>> and safest way to accomplish technical volunteer work in amateur radio.
>>>>> This final determination letter provides solid support for that
>>>>> vision. The
>>>>> determination enables the development of implementation guidelines that
>>>>> will allow free international collaboration.
>>>>>
>>>>> This clears the path for a number of interesting projects facilitating
>>>>> new
>>>>> methods for terrestrial and satellite communications, opening the door
>>>>> to
>>>>> robust global digital amateur communications.
>>>>>
>>>>> Questions and inquiries to ori at openresearch.institute
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>>> Opinions expressed
>>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>>>> of AMSAT-NA.
>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>>> program!
>>>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>
>>> "Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
>>>
>>>

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 14:48:22 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 07:48:22 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c_jsYk+jeD7Ps3hQWhwH2eRpASGCzF9S2EqR7RH4yVnzA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_ov12dpaeP3QdTPZ9_QDBbNMdncOVEC_APvSoMfzp17g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XJXBNXj9Wwy_B7QfsKZ0-MkHHzxhBx=OckUbMM_QZu2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-VK-+XATBQ-EexkfnQLm81RxhQkd_AwYCudiMHjT1gCA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2URcX=hdNmtFfb55J7GrsqLDkwzKp1HM=bXWm3+7vYvAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_jsYk+jeD7Ps3hQWhwH2eRpASGCzF9S2EqR7RH4yVnzA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2WOWCbnVYhG4A_vaan-MPhGqp9bQpVsjG5H2hHxCPoLqQ@mail.gmail.com>

The final determination letter is the only communication we received.

Public link to the letter is in the announcement.

I was not contacted during the 7 months of review by the government.
Neither were the lawyers.

I kept up with the request as it worked its way through DHS, DOD, and BIS
by using the DDTC request status server.

BIS was necessary because we included encryption. There was a lengthy
discussion on whether or not to include encryption.

Those of you that know the regulations know we are allowed to use
encryption. However, this complicates the request in several ways. It
requires an entire additional department to review, and there are a lot of
potential pitfalls here.

Not including encryption would make it faster and easier to approve, but
would make the result incomplete.

We decided to include encryption, trigger the extra scrutiny, and we worked
through all the language. If we were going to run the marathon then we
needed to run the entire marathon.

I don't believe there is usually a lot of correspondence between requestor
and DDTC at all. I was told to be available for questions (from the
reviewer) but that contact would be very highly unlikely.

Making the request is not a negotiation or collaboration. There is no juicy
trove of emails. The silence from the government was absolute.

We had to have the best possible information and case upon submission, and
be prepared for any outcome.

-Michelle W5NYV

On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 07:09 Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Michelle,
>
> Public link to a copy of the submitted form DS-4076 (and supplemental
> materials if-any)?
>
> Public link to a copy of all communications with the DDTC?
>
> Joseph Armbruster
> KJ4JIO
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 10:02 AM Michelle Thompson <
> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Again, all information used in the request is already public.
>>
>> Again, the policies used to make the succesful request are also already
>> public and in use.
>>
>> You are spilling a lot of ink  asking for things to be shared that have
>> already been shared. I've already said I will ask the firm what can be
>> released.
>>
>> The final determination is of enormous benefit to AMSAT and many other
>> organizations. The request was deliberately designed that way, and it
>> worked.
>>
>> Time to put it to work for AMSAT.
>>
>> And celebrate! :+)
>>
>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 06:24 Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Michelle,
>>>
>>>
>>> Standby.  The community has absolutely no reason, whatsoever to trust
>>> any guidelines your group is publishing, unless the community is given
>>> direct insight into the request itself and all direct communications with
>>> the DDTC, so that the context and realities of the determination can be
>>> validated.  What i'm asking for here is not inappropriate, given the
>>> history, context or claims being made.
>>>
>>>
>>> This, "Just trust what we say we did", is Not Transparent and does not
>>> instill confidence in anyone about what is going on.  I do, on the other
>>> hand, have Hope, that the claims being made are supported.
>>>
>>>
>>> I will say though, I actually laughed out loud when I read "Information
>>> contained in CJ requests is not usually made public. The law firm would not
>>> file it unless it was presented to the State Department as private and
>>> confidential."  Because, C'mon.. noone in their right mind is going to
>>> read that and say "oh yeah!" and agree that they should just turn their
>>> brains off to the actual request.
>>>
>>>
>>> With respects to the first sentence, the reality is that most companies
>>> dealing with the DDTC are exporting defense articles and services.  As
>>> a result, there's usually a contractual need (and could be a real
>>> life/death reason) to keep the communications with the DDTC, confidential.
>>> Because the intent here is not to manufacture/export defense articles or
>>> services, there should be no harm in the request being made public.  I
>>> mean, I believe everyone on the -bb would unanimously Want to see it.   On
>>> the second sentence, I have an attorney on retainer for my business and I
>>> could easily go to them and say "All communications between parties A and B
>>> for this effort will be placed into the public domain, in support of an
>>> outreach effort going on with this charity, so treat it that way".  And,
>>> that's what would happen, because, that's what I would be paying them to
>>> do.  In addition, I am free to take my legal business elsewhere if-need-be
>>> and I do not have to beg, plead, or pay for any release.  Sometimes, having
>>> a second set of legal eyes on legal work products is a good thing.  I would
>>> not have the firm file on my behalf with the DDTC, because there's really
>>> no need.  That's giving them more power and responsibility in the process
>>> than they actually need.  I'd use them more as support personnel /
>>> consultants on an as-needed basis, vs the directors of the effort that you
>>> now have to beg for a release (of your own information...)  This sounds
>>> like a disaster.
>>>
>>>
>>> The contents of a CJ request is private and confidential if and only if
>>> the submitting party treats it that way.
>>>
>>>
>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>>
>>> KJ4JIO
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 11:23 PM Michelle Thompson <
>>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, Joseph, it?s amazing news and It is just as good as advertised.
>>>>
>>>> The result is of enormous and direct benefit to AMSAT.
>>>>
>>>> AMSAT was asked to join the request. I sent a paper letter, wrote the
>>>> board, brought it up during the 2019 annual board meeting, and published an
>>>> open letter. I did all I could to enable the full participation of the one
>>>> organization that stands to benefit the most from this determination.
>>>>
>>>> But, the men you voted for did not respond, at all.
>>>>
>>>> It took a year of very hard work. It?s a gift to the community. It can
>>>> restore free and open international collaboration.
>>>>
>>>> That?s it. There?s no tricks or gotchas. It is what it is claimed to be.
>>>>
>>>> I would have done the same work and raised the same money if AMSAT had
>>>> wanted their name on it. I would be just as proud and would be saying the
>>>> same things. When work needs to be done, it needs to be done.
>>>>
>>>> Information contained in CJ requests is not usually made public. The
>>>> law firm would not file it unless it was presented to the State Department
>>>> as private and confidential. This advice was because virtually all requests
>>>> are for proprietary programs and products. Sticking out in this regard, by
>>>> doing something they advised strongly against, would not work to our
>>>> advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the wrong
>>>> hill.
>>>>
>>>> Additionally, the law firm does not want their work products or email
>>>> correspondence published. We will honor that. We want to work with them
>>>> again. They were fantastic, recommended by EFF, and 100% supportive of open
>>>> source.
>>>>
>>>> Fortunately, *everything* that went into the request is already public
>>>> information. All our designs, details, policies, procedures, definitions,
>>>> diagrams, and code are available to the general public free of charge,
>>>> today. That?s the primary reason it succeeded. We already follow the law
>>>> with respect to public domain carve outs and publishing requirements. The
>>>> final determination shows the value of this approach.
>>>>
>>>> AMSAT can do this too. There is literally no reason not to. This is the
>>>> game changer people have been waiting for.
>>>>
>>>> *All* of what *anyone* will need to know to take full advantage will be
>>>> published in a set of implementation guidelines.
>>>>
>>>> This is the single best risk reduction for AMSAT volunteers that exists
>>>> in US law. It is the gold standard. We have access as a community to this
>>>> result because a team of very committed and competent people made it happen
>>>> and are now going to make it easy to use.
>>>>
>>>> Want to contribute to the guidelines? Participants are welcome.
>>>>
>>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 18:01 Joseph Armbruster <
>>>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Michelle,
>>>>>
>>>>> This is quite interesting, indeed!  However, from your press release,
>>>>> I really have no clue what "Information and Software for a Digital
>>>>> Microwave Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur
>>>>> Radio Use", means (in terms of the legalese, definitions and proper nouns
>>>>> used, etc...).  Depending on how they were defined, the determination may
>>>>> or may not be directly relevant to AMSAT or anyone else for that matter...
>>>>> And just to be clear, i'm not trying to be a spoiler here or anything, this
>>>>> could be really amazing news, or nothing more than a null determination
>>>>> that sounds great in a headline but really means nothing.  I think Everyone
>>>>> would welcome relaxed ITAR constraints on AMSAT engineers, in any
>>>>> way, shape or form...  That being said, this begs the question, is the Form
>>>>> DS-4076 and all supplemental materials, along with all written
>>>>> communications with the DOS/DDTC concerning this matter, being made
>>>>> public?  I think this would be absolutely necessary for anyone on the list
>>>>> to get excited about this, in any way, shape or form.  I looked on the ORI
>>>>> website and couldn't find anything around Feb 2020 (per the date the
>>>>> indicated submission was made per the AUG11 reply from the DDTC).
>>>>>
>>>>> Although, I am not a particular fan of ORI so-far, which is why I
>>>>> voted for Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer....
>>>>>
>>>>> I do commend any individual or entity that is able and willing to deal
>>>>> with the DOS or DDTC.  It takes a lot of time and $.  At one point, my
>>>>> business helped develop parts of a research UAV for a foreign military on a
>>>>> high-altitude balloon, which included a wireless network.  One export
>>>>> permit took over six months, with back-and-forths with questions and
>>>>> clarifications, questions and clarifications, more questions and
>>>>> clarifications... on and on and on...  Just because they say you can
>>>>> produce Information and Software for a widget (however those are defined),
>>>>> it doesn't necessarily mean you can actually get a permit to ship the
>>>>> hardware with the software on it, anywhere.  Because the 'Information and
>>>>> Software' (however defined), may not govern the hardware used.  In my case,
>>>>> there were special accelerometers and gyros, that you don't purchase
>>>>> without providing a lot of information.  So, no matter what software was
>>>>> written to drive them, if you shipped them out of the country without a
>>>>> permit, look out!  I remember finally getting my first export permit and
>>>>> shipping label and putting it on the box and sending some hardware out.  It
>>>>> was just a sticky label that went on a box, but wow, it wasn't easy.
>>>>>
>>>>> It sure would be nice if ITAR was less of an issue but the devil's
>>>>> really in the details here...
>>>>>
>>>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>>>> KJ4JIO
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 12:29 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>>>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://openresearch.institute/2020/08/18/cj-determination-open-source-satellite-work-is-free-of-itar/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The United States Department of State has ruled favorably on Open
>>>>>> Research
>>>>>> Institute's commodity jurisdiction request, finding that specified
>>>>>> ?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave Broadband
>>>>>> Communications
>>>>>> System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio Use? is definitely not
>>>>>> subject to State Department jurisdiction under ITAR, the International
>>>>>> Traffic in Arms Regulations. This is an important step toward
>>>>>> reducing the
>>>>>> burden of regulations restricting international cooperation on amateur
>>>>>> satellite projects, which have impeded engineering work by amateurs
>>>>>> in the
>>>>>> United States for decades.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Export regulations divide both technical information and actual
>>>>>> hardware
>>>>>> into three categories. The most heavily restricted technologies fall
>>>>>> under
>>>>>> ITAR, which is administered by the State Department. Technologies
>>>>>> subject
>>>>>> to more routine restrictions fall under EAR, the Export Administration
>>>>>> Regulations, administered by the Department of Commerce. Technologies
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> are not subject to either set of regulations are not restricted for
>>>>>> export.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 20 February 2020, Open Research Institute (ORI) filed a Commodity
>>>>>> Jurisdiction (CJ) Request with the US State Department, seeking to
>>>>>> establish that key technologies for amateur radio are not subject to
>>>>>> State
>>>>>> Department jurisdiction. ?Information and Software for a Digital
>>>>>> Microwave
>>>>>> Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur
>>>>>> Radio
>>>>>> Use? was assigned the case number CJ0003120. On 11 August 2020, the
>>>>>> case
>>>>>> received a successful final determination: the technology is not
>>>>>> subject to
>>>>>> State Department jurisdiction. This is the best possible outcome of a
>>>>>> CJ
>>>>>> request.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Final Determination letter can be found at
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/08/CJ-0003120-Final-Determination-Letter.pdf
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Under this determination, the technologies are subject to the EAR.
>>>>>> The next
>>>>>> step is to submit a classification request to the Commerce
>>>>>> Department. ORI
>>>>>> anticipates that the Commerce Department will find that these
>>>>>> technologies
>>>>>> are unrestricted under the carve-out for open source in the EAR.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Open Research Institute (ORI) is a non-profit research and development
>>>>>> organization which provides all of its work to the general public
>>>>>> under the
>>>>>> principles of Open Source and Open Access to Research.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This work was accomplished by a team of dedicated and competent open
>>>>>> source
>>>>>> volunteers. The effort was initiated by Bruce Perens K6BP and lead by
>>>>>> Michelle Thompson W5NYV.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Open Research Institute developed the ideas behind the Commodity
>>>>>> Jurisdiction request, hired Thomsen and Burke LLP (https://t-b.com/)
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> expert legal advice, organized the revisions of the document, and
>>>>>> invited
>>>>>> organizations and individuals with amateur satellite service
>>>>>> interests to
>>>>>> join or support the request.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ORI thanks Libre Space Foundation and Dr. Daniel Estevez for providing
>>>>>> their subject matter expertise and written testimony, and JAMSAT for
>>>>>> helpful encouragement and support.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The legal costs were fully reimbursed with a generous grant from
>>>>>> Amateur
>>>>>> Radio Digital Communications (ARDC). See
>>>>>> https://www.ampr.org/grants/grant-open-research-institute/.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ARDC and ORI share a vision of clearly establishing open source as
>>>>>> the best
>>>>>> and safest way to accomplish technical volunteer work in amateur
>>>>>> radio.
>>>>>> This final determination letter provides solid support for that
>>>>>> vision. The
>>>>>> determination enables the development of implementation guidelines
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> will allow free international collaboration.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This clears the path for a number of interesting projects
>>>>>> facilitating new
>>>>>> methods for terrestrial and satellite communications, opening the
>>>>>> door to
>>>>>> robust global digital amateur communications.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Questions and inquiries to ori at openresearch.institute
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>>>> Opinions expressed
>>>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>>>>> of AMSAT-NA.
>>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>>>> program!
>>>>>> Subscription settings:
>>>>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>>
>>>> "Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
>>>>
>>>>

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 15:18:14 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 11:18:14 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2WOWCbnVYhG4A_vaan-MPhGqp9bQpVsjG5H2hHxCPoLqQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_ov12dpaeP3QdTPZ9_QDBbNMdncOVEC_APvSoMfzp17g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XJXBNXj9Wwy_B7QfsKZ0-MkHHzxhBx=OckUbMM_QZu2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-VK-+XATBQ-EexkfnQLm81RxhQkd_AwYCudiMHjT1gCA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2URcX=hdNmtFfb55J7GrsqLDkwzKp1HM=bXWm3+7vYvAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_jsYk+jeD7Ps3hQWhwH2eRpASGCzF9S2EqR7RH4yVnzA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2WOWCbnVYhG4A_vaan-MPhGqp9bQpVsjG5H2hHxCPoLqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c_=H6nTEGpAVwCzmO5u7kCexxTtGnPh6zT1wMbn8k08ZA@mail.gmail.com>

Michelle,

The determination letter itself needs to be interpreted in the correct
context.  Noone on the -bb can make any sense of that determination letter
right now, without seeing a copy of what was submitted on the form
DS-4076.  I can not find this posted publicly anywhere, did I miss it?

Is the submitted form DS-4076 (and supplemental materials if-any), posted
publicly?

If-not, this whole announcement is basically a shoulder shrug for me.  It
Sounds great... but, we have no evidence that the determination letter
actually means anything of value.

On question 2, it is good to know there was no back and forth 'juicy'
communication.  For the record, it is not uncommon to have a back-and-forth
with them.  They typically ask a lot of questions and dig into the
requests...  Knowing this fact, will make it that much easier for all of us
on the -bb to make sense of your announcement, once we have all the
information.... right now, we do Not have all the required information.

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO

On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 10:48 AM Michelle Thompson <
mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:

> The final determination letter is the only communication we received.
>
> Public link to the letter is in the announcement.
>
> I was not contacted during the 7 months of review by the government.
> Neither were the lawyers.
>
> I kept up with the request as it worked its way through DHS, DOD, and BIS
> by using the DDTC request status server.
>
> BIS was necessary because we included encryption. There was a lengthy
> discussion on whether or not to include encryption.
>
> Those of you that know the regulations know we are allowed to use
> encryption. However, this complicates the request in several ways. It
> requires an entire additional department to review, and there are a lot of
> potential pitfalls here.
>
> Not including encryption would make it faster and easier to approve, but
> would make the result incomplete.
>
> We decided to include encryption, trigger the extra scrutiny, and we
> worked through all the language. If we were going to run the marathon then
> we needed to run the entire marathon.
>
> I don't believe there is usually a lot of correspondence between requestor
> and DDTC at all. I was told to be available for questions (from the
> reviewer) but that contact would be very highly unlikely.
>
> Making the request is not a negotiation or collaboration. There is no
> juicy trove of emails. The silence from the government was absolute.
>
> We had to have the best possible information and case upon submission, and
> be prepared for any outcome.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 07:09 Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Michelle,
>>
>> Public link to a copy of the submitted form DS-4076 (and supplemental
>> materials if-any)?
>>
>> Public link to a copy of all communications with the DDTC?
>>
>> Joseph Armbruster
>> KJ4JIO
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 10:02 AM Michelle Thompson <
>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Again, all information used in the request is already public.
>>>
>>> Again, the policies used to make the succesful request are also already
>>> public and in use.
>>>
>>> You are spilling a lot of ink  asking for things to be shared that have
>>> already been shared. I've already said I will ask the firm what can be
>>> released.
>>>
>>> The final determination is of enormous benefit to AMSAT and many other
>>> organizations. The request was deliberately designed that way, and it
>>> worked.
>>>
>>> Time to put it to work for AMSAT.
>>>
>>> And celebrate! :+)
>>>
>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 06:24 Joseph Armbruster <
>>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Michelle,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Standby.  The community has absolutely no reason, whatsoever to trust
>>>> any guidelines your group is publishing, unless the community is given
>>>> direct insight into the request itself and all direct communications with
>>>> the DDTC, so that the context and realities of the determination can be
>>>> validated.  What i'm asking for here is not inappropriate, given the
>>>> history, context or claims being made.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This, "Just trust what we say we did", is Not Transparent and does not
>>>> instill confidence in anyone about what is going on.  I do, on the other
>>>> hand, have Hope, that the claims being made are supported.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I will say though, I actually laughed out loud when I read "Information
>>>> contained in CJ requests is not usually made public. The law firm would not
>>>> file it unless it was presented to the State Department as private and
>>>> confidential."  Because, C'mon.. noone in their right mind is going to
>>>> read that and say "oh yeah!" and agree that they should just turn their
>>>> brains off to the actual request.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With respects to the first sentence, the reality is that most companies
>>>> dealing with the DDTC are exporting defense articles and services.  As
>>>> a result, there's usually a contractual need (and could be a real
>>>> life/death reason) to keep the communications with the DDTC, confidential.
>>>> Because the intent here is not to manufacture/export defense articles or
>>>> services, there should be no harm in the request being made public.  I
>>>> mean, I believe everyone on the -bb would unanimously Want to see it.   On
>>>> the second sentence, I have an attorney on retainer for my business and I
>>>> could easily go to them and say "All communications between parties A and B
>>>> for this effort will be placed into the public domain, in support of an
>>>> outreach effort going on with this charity, so treat it that way".  And,
>>>> that's what would happen, because, that's what I would be paying them to
>>>> do.  In addition, I am free to take my legal business elsewhere if-need-be
>>>> and I do not have to beg, plead, or pay for any release.  Sometimes, having
>>>> a second set of legal eyes on legal work products is a good thing.  I would
>>>> not have the firm file on my behalf with the DDTC, because there's really
>>>> no need.  That's giving them more power and responsibility in the process
>>>> than they actually need.  I'd use them more as support personnel /
>>>> consultants on an as-needed basis, vs the directors of the effort that you
>>>> now have to beg for a release (of your own information...)  This sounds
>>>> like a disaster.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The contents of a CJ request is private and confidential if and only if
>>>> the submitting party treats it that way.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>>>
>>>> KJ4JIO
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 11:23 PM Michelle Thompson <
>>>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, Joseph, it?s amazing news and It is just as good as advertised.
>>>>>
>>>>> The result is of enormous and direct benefit to AMSAT.
>>>>>
>>>>> AMSAT was asked to join the request. I sent a paper letter, wrote the
>>>>> board, brought it up during the 2019 annual board meeting, and published an
>>>>> open letter. I did all I could to enable the full participation of the one
>>>>> organization that stands to benefit the most from this determination.
>>>>>
>>>>> But, the men you voted for did not respond, at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> It took a year of very hard work. It?s a gift to the community. It can
>>>>> restore free and open international collaboration.
>>>>>
>>>>> That?s it. There?s no tricks or gotchas. It is what it is claimed to
>>>>> be.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would have done the same work and raised the same money if AMSAT had
>>>>> wanted their name on it. I would be just as proud and would be saying the
>>>>> same things. When work needs to be done, it needs to be done.
>>>>>
>>>>> Information contained in CJ requests is not usually made public. The
>>>>> law firm would not file it unless it was presented to the State Department
>>>>> as private and confidential. This advice was because virtually all requests
>>>>> are for proprietary programs and products. Sticking out in this regard, by
>>>>> doing something they advised strongly against, would not work to our
>>>>> advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the wrong
>>>>> hill.
>>>>>
>>>>> Additionally, the law firm does not want their work products or email
>>>>> correspondence published. We will honor that. We want to work with them
>>>>> again. They were fantastic, recommended by EFF, and 100% supportive of open
>>>>> source.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fortunately, *everything* that went into the request is already public
>>>>> information. All our designs, details, policies, procedures, definitions,
>>>>> diagrams, and code are available to the general public free of charge,
>>>>> today. That?s the primary reason it succeeded. We already follow the law
>>>>> with respect to public domain carve outs and publishing requirements. The
>>>>> final determination shows the value of this approach.
>>>>>
>>>>> AMSAT can do this too. There is literally no reason not to. This is
>>>>> the game changer people have been waiting for.
>>>>>
>>>>> *All* of what *anyone* will need to know to take full advantage will
>>>>> be published in a set of implementation guidelines.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is the single best risk reduction for AMSAT volunteers that
>>>>> exists in US law. It is the gold standard. We have access as a community to
>>>>> this result because a team of very committed and competent people made it
>>>>> happen and are now going to make it easy to use.
>>>>>
>>>>> Want to contribute to the guidelines? Participants are welcome.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 18:01 Joseph Armbruster <
>>>>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Michelle,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is quite interesting, indeed!  However, from your press release,
>>>>>> I really have no clue what "Information and Software for a Digital
>>>>>> Microwave Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur
>>>>>> Radio Use", means (in terms of the legalese, definitions and proper nouns
>>>>>> used, etc...).  Depending on how they were defined, the determination may
>>>>>> or may not be directly relevant to AMSAT or anyone else for that matter...
>>>>>> And just to be clear, i'm not trying to be a spoiler here or anything, this
>>>>>> could be really amazing news, or nothing more than a null determination
>>>>>> that sounds great in a headline but really means nothing.  I think Everyone
>>>>>> would welcome relaxed ITAR constraints on AMSAT engineers, in any
>>>>>> way, shape or form...  That being said, this begs the question, is the Form
>>>>>> DS-4076 and all supplemental materials, along with all written
>>>>>> communications with the DOS/DDTC concerning this matter, being made
>>>>>> public?  I think this would be absolutely necessary for anyone on the list
>>>>>> to get excited about this, in any way, shape or form.  I looked on the ORI
>>>>>> website and couldn't find anything around Feb 2020 (per the date the
>>>>>> indicated submission was made per the AUG11 reply from the DDTC).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Although, I am not a particular fan of ORI so-far, which is why I
>>>>>> voted for Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do commend any individual or entity that is able and willing to
>>>>>> deal with the DOS or DDTC.  It takes a lot of time and $.  At one point, my
>>>>>> business helped develop parts of a research UAV for a foreign military on a
>>>>>> high-altitude balloon, which included a wireless network.  One export
>>>>>> permit took over six months, with back-and-forths with questions and
>>>>>> clarifications, questions and clarifications, more questions and
>>>>>> clarifications... on and on and on...  Just because they say you can
>>>>>> produce Information and Software for a widget (however those are defined),
>>>>>> it doesn't necessarily mean you can actually get a permit to ship the
>>>>>> hardware with the software on it, anywhere.  Because the 'Information and
>>>>>> Software' (however defined), may not govern the hardware used.  In my case,
>>>>>> there were special accelerometers and gyros, that you don't purchase
>>>>>> without providing a lot of information.  So, no matter what software was
>>>>>> written to drive them, if you shipped them out of the country without a
>>>>>> permit, look out!  I remember finally getting my first export permit and
>>>>>> shipping label and putting it on the box and sending some hardware out.  It
>>>>>> was just a sticky label that went on a box, but wow, it wasn't easy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It sure would be nice if ITAR was less of an issue but the devil's
>>>>>> really in the details here...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>>>>> KJ4JIO
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 12:29 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>>>>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://openresearch.institute/2020/08/18/cj-determination-open-source-satellite-work-is-free-of-itar/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The United States Department of State has ruled favorably on Open
>>>>>>> Research
>>>>>>> Institute's commodity jurisdiction request, finding that specified
>>>>>>> ?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave Broadband
>>>>>>> Communications
>>>>>>> System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio Use? is definitely not
>>>>>>> subject to State Department jurisdiction under ITAR, the
>>>>>>> International
>>>>>>> Traffic in Arms Regulations. This is an important step toward
>>>>>>> reducing the
>>>>>>> burden of regulations restricting international cooperation on
>>>>>>> amateur
>>>>>>> satellite projects, which have impeded engineering work by amateurs
>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>> United States for decades.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Export regulations divide both technical information and actual
>>>>>>> hardware
>>>>>>> into three categories. The most heavily restricted technologies fall
>>>>>>> under
>>>>>>> ITAR, which is administered by the State Department. Technologies
>>>>>>> subject
>>>>>>> to more routine restrictions fall under EAR, the Export
>>>>>>> Administration
>>>>>>> Regulations, administered by the Department of Commerce.
>>>>>>> Technologies that
>>>>>>> are not subject to either set of regulations are not restricted for
>>>>>>> export.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 20 February 2020, Open Research Institute (ORI) filed a Commodity
>>>>>>> Jurisdiction (CJ) Request with the US State Department, seeking to
>>>>>>> establish that key technologies for amateur radio are not subject to
>>>>>>> State
>>>>>>> Department jurisdiction. ?Information and Software for a Digital
>>>>>>> Microwave
>>>>>>> Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur
>>>>>>> Radio
>>>>>>> Use? was assigned the case number CJ0003120. On 11 August 2020, the
>>>>>>> case
>>>>>>> received a successful final determination: the technology is not
>>>>>>> subject to
>>>>>>> State Department jurisdiction. This is the best possible outcome of
>>>>>>> a CJ
>>>>>>> request.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Final Determination letter can be found at
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/08/CJ-0003120-Final-Determination-Letter.pdf
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Under this determination, the technologies are subject to the EAR.
>>>>>>> The next
>>>>>>> step is to submit a classification request to the Commerce
>>>>>>> Department. ORI
>>>>>>> anticipates that the Commerce Department will find that these
>>>>>>> technologies
>>>>>>> are unrestricted under the carve-out for open source in the EAR.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Open Research Institute (ORI) is a non-profit research and
>>>>>>> development
>>>>>>> organization which provides all of its work to the general public
>>>>>>> under the
>>>>>>> principles of Open Source and Open Access to Research.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This work was accomplished by a team of dedicated and competent open
>>>>>>> source
>>>>>>> volunteers. The effort was initiated by Bruce Perens K6BP and lead by
>>>>>>> Michelle Thompson W5NYV.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Open Research Institute developed the ideas behind the Commodity
>>>>>>> Jurisdiction request, hired Thomsen and Burke LLP (https://t-b.com/)
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> expert legal advice, organized the revisions of the document, and
>>>>>>> invited
>>>>>>> organizations and individuals with amateur satellite service
>>>>>>> interests to
>>>>>>> join or support the request.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ORI thanks Libre Space Foundation and Dr. Daniel Estevez for
>>>>>>> providing
>>>>>>> their subject matter expertise and written testimony, and JAMSAT for
>>>>>>> helpful encouragement and support.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The legal costs were fully reimbursed with a generous grant from
>>>>>>> Amateur
>>>>>>> Radio Digital Communications (ARDC). See
>>>>>>> https://www.ampr.org/grants/grant-open-research-institute/.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ARDC and ORI share a vision of clearly establishing open source as
>>>>>>> the best
>>>>>>> and safest way to accomplish technical volunteer work in amateur
>>>>>>> radio.
>>>>>>> This final determination letter provides solid support for that
>>>>>>> vision. The
>>>>>>> determination enables the development of implementation guidelines
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> will allow free international collaboration.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This clears the path for a number of interesting projects
>>>>>>> facilitating new
>>>>>>> methods for terrestrial and satellite communications, opening the
>>>>>>> door to
>>>>>>> robust global digital amateur communications.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Questions and inquiries to ori at openresearch.institute
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>>>>>> available
>>>>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>>>>> Opinions expressed
>>>>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>>>>>> views of AMSAT-NA.
>>>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>>>>> program!
>>>>>>> Subscription settings:
>>>>>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>>>
>>>>> "Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
>>>>>
>>>>>

From mccardelm at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 15:37:27 2020
From: mccardelm at gmail.com (E.Mike McCardel)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 11:37:27 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards
Message-ID: <CAM5+sovXZHutC_6FmCNFJVf6+dXceGbLk2Qe9tbd=X4OfuNcPg@mail.gmail.com>

Just an observation. Among all of this talk, during the past BOoD election
cycle, about Transparency, I find it amazing that the excuse of the Lawyers
or others don't think it wise to disclose information can even be an
argument.

Michelle Wrote:
"Unless, of course, this  Information contained in CJ requests is not
usually made public. The law firm would not file it unless it was presented
to the State Department as private and confidential. This advice was
because virtually all requests are for proprietary programs and products.
Sticking out in this regard, by doing something they advised strongly
against, would not work to our
advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the wrong
hill.  as an admission that NDA's are indeed important and not just
convenient."

Is this not the very essence of Non-Disclosure Agreements? Without the
transparency which seems to be lacking here this comes across as a simple
political stunt. Enough already.

I am not voting for any TEAM, I'm putting my trust in individuals whom I
respect and trust and have no agenda other than serving AMSAT to keep
amateur radio in space.

EMike, AA8EM



E. Michael McCardel, AA8EM, former KC8YLD
Former Senior Editor for AMSAT News Service,
Past VP Educational Relations for AMSAT-NA
Former Ohio Section Affiliated Club Coordinator

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 17:02:53 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 10:02:53 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c_=H6nTEGpAVwCzmO5u7kCexxTtGnPh6zT1wMbn8k08ZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_ov12dpaeP3QdTPZ9_QDBbNMdncOVEC_APvSoMfzp17g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XJXBNXj9Wwy_B7QfsKZ0-MkHHzxhBx=OckUbMM_QZu2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-VK-+XATBQ-EexkfnQLm81RxhQkd_AwYCudiMHjT1gCA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2URcX=hdNmtFfb55J7GrsqLDkwzKp1HM=bXWm3+7vYvAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_jsYk+jeD7Ps3hQWhwH2eRpASGCzF9S2EqR7RH4yVnzA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2WOWCbnVYhG4A_vaan-MPhGqp9bQpVsjG5H2hHxCPoLqQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_=H6nTEGpAVwCzmO5u7kCexxTtGnPh6zT1wMbn8k08ZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2XfdLSUwmxNfaVe5zkKS_WrvVHzUcBRuokD8jz8u=R9iw@mail.gmail.com>

Yes. Again, all the information that went into the DS-4076 is already
publicly available (designs and policies). You can find all the design
information in our repositories and the policies on our website.

You can see a significant part of the described transmitter design for
yourself in the review workshop video I posted about a week ago here on
-BB.

The posting of the submitted DS-4076 seems to be so rare that I cannot find
an example of one shared on the web. You are asking for something that the
law firm specifically advised against doing. Again, I have said I would
raise the issue next time I meet with them.

If you can show me your company's DS-4076 postings, then maybe that would
help support your point of view. I couldn't find them on the web. I'd
appreciate the name of the consulting firm or law firm that your company
used for the CJ Requests so I can call them about their approach to
releasing their work products. This is an area I'm very interested in for a
variety of reasons, not just for amateur radio. I'm in strong favor of
publishing everything possible, but all of us need to honor legitimate or
required limitations, like the ones we are discussing here.

If it's routine to post DS-4076 submissions, and if you somehow can't use a
final determination without them, then I should be seeing a lot more
published DS-4076s than final determination letters. That doesn't appear to
be the case at all from looking at the list of determinations made over the
past couple of years, tracking down ones that published their final
determination letters, and looking for DS-4076s.

All the information and policies involved in this particular request are
already public. The existence of the determination can be independently
verified. Your questions have all been answered in the affirmative.

AMSAT's ITAR/EAR consulting firm was notified of this CJ Request process,
application, and the final determination. The response has been very
positive and supportive throughout. There are no roadblocks to using this
final determination to establish a safe and sane open source policy for
AMSAT from the consulting firm that AMSAT already uses. The proposal and
retainer fee from this consulting firm for this policy work is sitting on
the President's desk. I've done all the work necessary to make it easy and
effective. It's a pleasure to be able to do so, and I look forward to a
renaissance in the technical volunteer corps.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 8:16 AM Joseph Armbruster <
josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:

> Michelle,
>
> The determination letter itself needs to be interpreted in the correct
> context.  Noone on the -bb can make any sense of that determination letter
> right now, without seeing a copy of what was submitted on the form
> DS-4076.  I can not find this posted publicly anywhere, did I miss it?
>
> Is the submitted form DS-4076 (and supplemental materials if-any), posted
> publicly?
>
> If-not, this whole announcement is basically a shoulder shrug for me.  It
> Sounds great... but, we have no evidence that the determination letter
> actually means anything of value.
>
> On question 2, it is good to know there was no back and forth 'juicy'
> communication.  For the record, it is not uncommon to have a back-and-forth
> with them.  They typically ask a lot of questions and dig into the
> requests...  Knowing this fact, will make it that much easier for all of
> us on the -bb to make sense of your announcement, once we have all the
> information.... right now, we do Not have all the required information.
>
> Joseph Armbruster
> KJ4JIO
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 10:48 AM Michelle Thompson <
> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The final determination letter is the only communication we received.
>>
>> Public link to the letter is in the announcement.
>>
>> I was not contacted during the 7 months of review by the government.
>> Neither were the lawyers.
>>
>> I kept up with the request as it worked its way through DHS, DOD, and BIS
>> by using the DDTC request status server.
>>
>> BIS was necessary because we included encryption. There was a lengthy
>> discussion on whether or not to include encryption.
>>
>> Those of you that know the regulations know we are allowed to use
>> encryption. However, this complicates the request in several ways. It
>> requires an entire additional department to review, and there are a lot of
>> potential pitfalls here.
>>
>> Not including encryption would make it faster and easier to approve, but
>> would make the result incomplete.
>>
>> We decided to include encryption, trigger the extra scrutiny, and we
>> worked through all the language. If we were going to run the marathon then
>> we needed to run the entire marathon.
>>
>> I don't believe there is usually a lot of correspondence between
>> requestor and DDTC at all. I was told to be available for questions (from
>> the reviewer) but that contact would be very highly unlikely.
>>
>> Making the request is not a negotiation or collaboration. There is no
>> juicy trove of emails. The silence from the government was absolute.
>>
>> We had to have the best possible information and case upon submission,
>> and be prepared for any outcome.
>>
>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 07:09 Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Michelle,
>>>
>>> Public link to a copy of the submitted form DS-4076 (and supplemental
>>> materials if-any)?
>>>
>>> Public link to a copy of all communications with the DDTC?
>>>
>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>> KJ4JIO
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 10:02 AM Michelle Thompson <
>>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Again, all information used in the request is already public.
>>>>
>>>> Again, the policies used to make the succesful request are also already
>>>> public and in use.
>>>>
>>>> You are spilling a lot of ink  asking for things to be shared that have
>>>> already been shared. I've already said I will ask the firm what can be
>>>> released.
>>>>
>>>> The final determination is of enormous benefit to AMSAT and many other
>>>> organizations. The request was deliberately designed that way, and it
>>>> worked.
>>>>
>>>> Time to put it to work for AMSAT.
>>>>
>>>> And celebrate! :+)
>>>>
>>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 06:24 Joseph Armbruster <
>>>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Michelle,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Standby.  The community has absolutely no reason, whatsoever to trust
>>>>> any guidelines your group is publishing, unless the community is given
>>>>> direct insight into the request itself and all direct communications with
>>>>> the DDTC, so that the context and realities of the determination can be
>>>>> validated.  What i'm asking for here is not inappropriate, given the
>>>>> history, context or claims being made.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This, "Just trust what we say we did", is Not Transparent and does not
>>>>> instill confidence in anyone about what is going on.  I do, on the other
>>>>> hand, have Hope, that the claims being made are supported.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I will say though, I actually laughed out loud when I read
>>>>> "Information contained in CJ requests is not usually made public. The law
>>>>> firm would not file it unless it was presented to the State Department as
>>>>> private and confidential."  Because, C'mon.. noone in their right
>>>>> mind is going to read that and say "oh yeah!" and agree that they should
>>>>> just turn their brains off to the actual request.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> With respects to the first sentence, the reality is that most
>>>>> companies dealing with the DDTC are exporting defense articles and
>>>>> services.  As a result, there's usually a contractual need (and could
>>>>> be a real life/death reason) to keep the communications with the DDTC,
>>>>> confidential.  Because the intent here is not to manufacture/export defense
>>>>> articles or services, there should be no harm in the request being made
>>>>> public.  I mean, I believe everyone on the -bb would unanimously Want to
>>>>> see it.   On the second sentence, I have an attorney on retainer for my
>>>>> business and I could easily go to them and say "All communications between
>>>>> parties A and B for this effort will be placed into the public domain, in
>>>>> support of an outreach effort going on with this charity, so treat it that
>>>>> way".  And, that's what would happen, because, that's what I would be
>>>>> paying them to do.  In addition, I am free to take my legal business
>>>>> elsewhere if-need-be and I do not have to beg, plead, or pay for any
>>>>> release.  Sometimes, having a second set of legal eyes on legal work
>>>>> products is a good thing.  I would not have the firm file on my behalf with
>>>>> the DDTC, because there's really no need.  That's giving them more power
>>>>> and responsibility in the process than they actually need.  I'd use them
>>>>> more as support personnel / consultants on an as-needed basis, vs the
>>>>> directors of the effort that you now have to beg for a release (of your own
>>>>> information...)  This sounds like a disaster.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The contents of a CJ request is private and confidential if and only
>>>>> if the submitting party treats it that way.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>>>>
>>>>> KJ4JIO
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 11:23 PM Michelle Thompson <
>>>>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, Joseph, it?s amazing news and It is just as good as advertised.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The result is of enormous and direct benefit to AMSAT.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AMSAT was asked to join the request. I sent a paper letter, wrote the
>>>>>> board, brought it up during the 2019 annual board meeting, and published an
>>>>>> open letter. I did all I could to enable the full participation of the one
>>>>>> organization that stands to benefit the most from this determination.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But, the men you voted for did not respond, at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It took a year of very hard work. It?s a gift to the community. It
>>>>>> can restore free and open international collaboration.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That?s it. There?s no tricks or gotchas. It is what it is claimed to
>>>>>> be.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would have done the same work and raised the same money if AMSAT
>>>>>> had wanted their name on it. I would be just as proud and would be saying
>>>>>> the same things. When work needs to be done, it needs to be done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Information contained in CJ requests is not usually made public. The
>>>>>> law firm would not file it unless it was presented to the State Department
>>>>>> as private and confidential. This advice was because virtually all requests
>>>>>> are for proprietary programs and products. Sticking out in this regard, by
>>>>>> doing something they advised strongly against, would not work to our
>>>>>> advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the wrong
>>>>>> hill.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Additionally, the law firm does not want their work products or email
>>>>>> correspondence published. We will honor that. We want to work with them
>>>>>> again. They were fantastic, recommended by EFF, and 100% supportive of open
>>>>>> source.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fortunately, *everything* that went into the request is already
>>>>>> public information. All our designs, details, policies, procedures,
>>>>>> definitions, diagrams, and code are available to the general public free of
>>>>>> charge, today. That?s the primary reason it succeeded. We already follow
>>>>>> the law with respect to public domain carve outs and publishing
>>>>>> requirements. The final determination shows the value of this approach.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AMSAT can do this too. There is literally no reason not to. This is
>>>>>> the game changer people have been waiting for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *All* of what *anyone* will need to know to take full advantage will
>>>>>> be published in a set of implementation guidelines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the single best risk reduction for AMSAT volunteers that
>>>>>> exists in US law. It is the gold standard. We have access as a community to
>>>>>> this result because a team of very committed and competent people made it
>>>>>> happen and are now going to make it easy to use.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Want to contribute to the guidelines? Participants are welcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 18:01 Joseph Armbruster <
>>>>>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michelle,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is quite interesting, indeed!  However, from your press
>>>>>>> release, I really have no clue what "Information and Software for a Digital
>>>>>>> Microwave Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur
>>>>>>> Radio Use", means (in terms of the legalese, definitions and proper nouns
>>>>>>> used, etc...).  Depending on how they were defined, the determination may
>>>>>>> or may not be directly relevant to AMSAT or anyone else for that matter...
>>>>>>> And just to be clear, i'm not trying to be a spoiler here or anything, this
>>>>>>> could be really amazing news, or nothing more than a null determination
>>>>>>> that sounds great in a headline but really means nothing.  I think Everyone
>>>>>>> would welcome relaxed ITAR constraints on AMSAT engineers, in any
>>>>>>> way, shape or form...  That being said, this begs the question, is the Form
>>>>>>> DS-4076 and all supplemental materials, along with all written
>>>>>>> communications with the DOS/DDTC concerning this matter, being made
>>>>>>> public?  I think this would be absolutely necessary for anyone on the list
>>>>>>> to get excited about this, in any way, shape or form.  I looked on the ORI
>>>>>>> website and couldn't find anything around Feb 2020 (per the date the
>>>>>>> indicated submission was made per the AUG11 reply from the DDTC).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Although, I am not a particular fan of ORI so-far, which is why I
>>>>>>> voted for Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do commend any individual or entity that is able and willing to
>>>>>>> deal with the DOS or DDTC.  It takes a lot of time and $.  At one point, my
>>>>>>> business helped develop parts of a research UAV for a foreign military on a
>>>>>>> high-altitude balloon, which included a wireless network.  One export
>>>>>>> permit took over six months, with back-and-forths with questions and
>>>>>>> clarifications, questions and clarifications, more questions and
>>>>>>> clarifications... on and on and on...  Just because they say you can
>>>>>>> produce Information and Software for a widget (however those are defined),
>>>>>>> it doesn't necessarily mean you can actually get a permit to ship the
>>>>>>> hardware with the software on it, anywhere.  Because the 'Information and
>>>>>>> Software' (however defined), may not govern the hardware used.  In my case,
>>>>>>> there were special accelerometers and gyros, that you don't purchase
>>>>>>> without providing a lot of information.  So, no matter what software was
>>>>>>> written to drive them, if you shipped them out of the country without a
>>>>>>> permit, look out!  I remember finally getting my first export permit and
>>>>>>> shipping label and putting it on the box and sending some hardware out.  It
>>>>>>> was just a sticky label that went on a box, but wow, it wasn't easy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It sure would be nice if ITAR was less of an issue but the devil's
>>>>>>> really in the details here...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>>>>>> KJ4JIO
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 12:29 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>>>>>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://openresearch.institute/2020/08/18/cj-determination-open-source-satellite-work-is-free-of-itar/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The United States Department of State has ruled favorably on Open
>>>>>>>> Research
>>>>>>>> Institute's commodity jurisdiction request, finding that specified
>>>>>>>> ?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave Broadband
>>>>>>>> Communications
>>>>>>>> System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio Use? is definitely
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> subject to State Department jurisdiction under ITAR, the
>>>>>>>> International
>>>>>>>> Traffic in Arms Regulations. This is an important step toward
>>>>>>>> reducing the
>>>>>>>> burden of regulations restricting international cooperation on
>>>>>>>> amateur
>>>>>>>> satellite projects, which have impeded engineering work by amateurs
>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>> United States for decades.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Export regulations divide both technical information and actual
>>>>>>>> hardware
>>>>>>>> into three categories. The most heavily restricted technologies
>>>>>>>> fall under
>>>>>>>> ITAR, which is administered by the State Department. Technologies
>>>>>>>> subject
>>>>>>>> to more routine restrictions fall under EAR, the Export
>>>>>>>> Administration
>>>>>>>> Regulations, administered by the Department of Commerce.
>>>>>>>> Technologies that
>>>>>>>> are not subject to either set of regulations are not restricted for
>>>>>>>> export.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 20 February 2020, Open Research Institute (ORI) filed a Commodity
>>>>>>>> Jurisdiction (CJ) Request with the US State Department, seeking to
>>>>>>>> establish that key technologies for amateur radio are not subject
>>>>>>>> to State
>>>>>>>> Department jurisdiction. ?Information and Software for a Digital
>>>>>>>> Microwave
>>>>>>>> Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur
>>>>>>>> Radio
>>>>>>>> Use? was assigned the case number CJ0003120. On 11 August 2020, the
>>>>>>>> case
>>>>>>>> received a successful final determination: the technology is not
>>>>>>>> subject to
>>>>>>>> State Department jurisdiction. This is the best possible outcome of
>>>>>>>> a CJ
>>>>>>>> request.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Final Determination letter can be found at
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/08/CJ-0003120-Final-Determination-Letter.pdf
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Under this determination, the technologies are subject to the EAR.
>>>>>>>> The next
>>>>>>>> step is to submit a classification request to the Commerce
>>>>>>>> Department. ORI
>>>>>>>> anticipates that the Commerce Department will find that these
>>>>>>>> technologies
>>>>>>>> are unrestricted under the carve-out for open source in the EAR.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Open Research Institute (ORI) is a non-profit research and
>>>>>>>> development
>>>>>>>> organization which provides all of its work to the general public
>>>>>>>> under the
>>>>>>>> principles of Open Source and Open Access to Research.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This work was accomplished by a team of dedicated and competent
>>>>>>>> open source
>>>>>>>> volunteers. The effort was initiated by Bruce Perens K6BP and lead
>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>> Michelle Thompson W5NYV.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Open Research Institute developed the ideas behind the Commodity
>>>>>>>> Jurisdiction request, hired Thomsen and Burke LLP (https://t-b.com/)
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> expert legal advice, organized the revisions of the document, and
>>>>>>>> invited
>>>>>>>> organizations and individuals with amateur satellite service
>>>>>>>> interests to
>>>>>>>> join or support the request.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ORI thanks Libre Space Foundation and Dr. Daniel Estevez for
>>>>>>>> providing
>>>>>>>> their subject matter expertise and written testimony, and JAMSAT for
>>>>>>>> helpful encouragement and support.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The legal costs were fully reimbursed with a generous grant from
>>>>>>>> Amateur
>>>>>>>> Radio Digital Communications (ARDC). See
>>>>>>>> https://www.ampr.org/grants/grant-open-research-institute/.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ARDC and ORI share a vision of clearly establishing open source as
>>>>>>>> the best
>>>>>>>> and safest way to accomplish technical volunteer work in amateur
>>>>>>>> radio.
>>>>>>>> This final determination letter provides solid support for that
>>>>>>>> vision. The
>>>>>>>> determination enables the development of implementation guidelines
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> will allow free international collaboration.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This clears the path for a number of interesting projects
>>>>>>>> facilitating new
>>>>>>>> methods for terrestrial and satellite communications, opening the
>>>>>>>> door to
>>>>>>>> robust global digital amateur communications.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Questions and inquiries to ori at openresearch.institute
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>>>>>>> available
>>>>>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>>>>>> Opinions expressed
>>>>>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>>>>>>> views of AMSAT-NA.
>>>>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>>>>>> program!
>>>>>>>> Subscription settings:
>>>>>>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 17:10:48 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 10:10:48 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards
In-Reply-To: <CAM5+sovXZHutC_6FmCNFJVf6+dXceGbLk2Qe9tbd=X4OfuNcPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM5+sovXZHutC_6FmCNFJVf6+dXceGbLk2Qe9tbd=X4OfuNcPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2VA8K-TWiq6cnOHVVNRu8bSup+yOReSHcoF-t4jWkdgQQ@mail.gmail.com>

You might have missed the part where all of the information in this
particular CJ request is already publicly available. It's already
transparent.

The submitted form itself is not usually published. That's the only
restriction we are talking about.

This is fundamentally different from refusing to allow Directors access to
corporate records unless they sign NDAs, then showing up without the actual
NDAs, then continuing to deny access to records and communications after
everyone signed a blank form that purported to be a signature form for
these alleged NDAs. Some of which have yet to be produced and you as a
member are not allowed to know about.

Your attack is off base and inaccurate. I'm sorry you feel the way you do.
This work means that things can get dramatically better for the
organization in highly visible and measurable ways.

-Michelle W5NYV



On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 9:33 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Just an observation. Among all of this talk, during the past BOoD election
> cycle, about Transparency, I find it amazing that the excuse of the Lawyers
> or others don't think it wise to disclose information can even be an
> argument.
>
> Michelle Wrote:
> "Unless, of course, this  Information contained in CJ requests is not
> usually made public. The law firm would not file it unless it was presented
> to the State Department as private and confidential. This advice was
> because virtually all requests are for proprietary programs and products.
> Sticking out in this regard, by doing something they advised strongly
> against, would not work to our
> advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the wrong
> hill.  as an admission that NDA's are indeed important and not just
> convenient."
>
> Is this not the very essence of Non-Disclosure Agreements? Without the
> transparency which seems to be lacking here this comes across as a simple
> political stunt. Enough already.
>
> I am not voting for any TEAM, I'm putting my trust in individuals whom I
> respect and trust and have no agenda other than serving AMSAT to keep
> amateur radio in space.
>
> EMike, AA8EM
>
>
>
> E. Michael McCardel, AA8EM, former KC8YLD
> Former Senior Editor for AMSAT News Service,
> Past VP Educational Relations for AMSAT-NA
> Former Ohio Section Affiliated Club Coordinator
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From mccardelm at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 17:24:57 2020
From: mccardelm at gmail.com (E.Mike McCardel)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:24:57 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2VA8K-TWiq6cnOHVVNRu8bSup+yOReSHcoF-t4jWkdgQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2VA8K-TWiq6cnOHVVNRu8bSup+yOReSHcoF-t4jWkdgQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BDB7F3B4-5DE9-483B-8EF7-4D117A8D25B7@gmail.com>

My final word. At least some people on your agendized team, for the take over of AMSAT, I hold or have held in high respect. That is, at least until they allowed themselves to be associated with this travesty of ego. I now question their judgement And motivation. That?s on you. TEAM politics isn?t what this is about. Character, track record, and how I have seen candidates treat Me and others is how I will vote.

I am highly disappointed that this has turned into a we / they campaign. The organization is better than that. Regardless of the outcome of this election, I judge AMSAT and it reputation will be damaged moving forward.

EMike, AA8EM

EMike McCardel, AA8EM
Past Senior Editor AMSAT News Service
Past AMSAT-NA VP Educational Relations
Former ARRL, Ohio Section, Affiliated Club Coordinator


> On Aug 19, 2020, at 1:11 PM, Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> You might have missed the part where all of the information in this particular CJ request is already publicly available. It's already transparent.
> 
> The submitted form itself is not usually published. That's the only restriction we are talking about.
> 
> This is fundamentally different from refusing to allow Directors access to corporate records unless they sign NDAs, then showing up without the actual NDAs, then continuing to deny access to records and communications after everyone signed a blank form that purported to be a signature form for these alleged NDAs. Some of which have yet to be produced and you as a member are not allowed to know about. 
> 
> Your attack is off base and inaccurate. I'm sorry you feel the way you do. This work means that things can get dramatically better for the organization in highly visible and measurable ways. 
> 
> -Michelle W5NYV
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 9:33 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> Just an observation. Among all of this talk, during the past BOoD election
>> cycle, about Transparency, I find it amazing that the excuse of the Lawyers
>> or others don't think it wise to disclose information can even be an
>> argument.
>> 
>> Michelle Wrote:
>> "Unless, of course, this  Information contained in CJ requests is not
>> usually made public. The law firm would not file it unless it was presented
>> to the State Department as private and confidential. This advice was
>> because virtually all requests are for proprietary programs and products.
>> Sticking out in this regard, by doing something they advised strongly
>> against, would not work to our
>> advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the wrong
>> hill.  as an admission that NDA's are indeed important and not just
>> convenient."
>> 
>> Is this not the very essence of Non-Disclosure Agreements? Without the
>> transparency which seems to be lacking here this comes across as a simple
>> political stunt. Enough already.
>> 
>> I am not voting for any TEAM, I'm putting my trust in individuals whom I
>> respect and trust and have no agenda other than serving AMSAT to keep
>> amateur radio in space.
>> 
>> EMike, AA8EM
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> E. Michael McCardel, AA8EM, former KC8YLD
>> Former Senior Editor for AMSAT News Service,
>> Past VP Educational Relations for AMSAT-NA
>> Former Ohio Section Affiliated Club Coordinator
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From bruce at perens.com  Wed Aug 19 18:41:29 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 11:41:29 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards
In-Reply-To: <BDB7F3B4-5DE9-483B-8EF7-4D117A8D25B7@gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2VA8K-TWiq6cnOHVVNRu8bSup+yOReSHcoF-t4jWkdgQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BDB7F3B4-5DE9-483B-8EF7-4D117A8D25B7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOtPNcQ00gY346GybPkdQOoYpNKnzkJjfVjd+R2EjBXGig@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry you feel that way. The unfortunate fact is that AMSAT has already
been judged by its outside funding organizations, and is going to have a
hard time surmounting that without a major change in leadership. It isn't
going to matter much for you to stick with leadership who can't can't build
and launch enough satellites. That is what it is coming to. Fixing that is
the only agenda.

On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 11:18 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> My final word. At least some people on your agendized team, for the take
> over of AMSAT, I hold or have held in high respect. That is, at least until
> they allowed themselves to be associated with this travesty of ego. I now
> question their judgement And motivation. That?s on you. TEAM politics isn?t
> what this is about. Character, track record, and how I have seen candidates
> treat Me and others is how I will vote.
>
> I am highly disappointed that this has turned into a we / they campaign.
> The organization is better than that. Regardless of the outcome of this
> election, I judge AMSAT and it reputation will be damaged moving forward.
>
> EMike, AA8EM
>
> EMike McCardel, AA8EM
> Past Senior Editor AMSAT News Service
> Past AMSAT-NA VP Educational Relations
> Former ARRL, Ohio Section, Affiliated Club Coordinator
>
>
> > On Aug 19, 2020, at 1:11 PM, Michelle Thompson <
> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > ?
> > You might have missed the part where all of the information in this
> particular CJ request is already publicly available. It's already
> transparent.
> >
> > The submitted form itself is not usually published. That's the only
> restriction we are talking about.
> >
> > This is fundamentally different from refusing to allow Directors access
> to corporate records unless they sign NDAs, then showing up without the
> actual NDAs, then continuing to deny access to records and communications
> after everyone signed a blank form that purported to be a signature form
> for these alleged NDAs. Some of which have yet to be produced and you as a
> member are not allowed to know about.
> >
> > Your attack is off base and inaccurate. I'm sorry you feel the way you
> do. This work means that things can get dramatically better for the
> organization in highly visible and measurable ways.
> >
> > -Michelle W5NYV
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 9:33 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >> Just an observation. Among all of this talk, during the past BOoD
> election
> >> cycle, about Transparency, I find it amazing that the excuse of the
> Lawyers
> >> or others don't think it wise to disclose information can even be an
> >> argument.
> >>
> >> Michelle Wrote:
> >> "Unless, of course, this  Information contained in CJ requests is not
> >> usually made public. The law firm would not file it unless it was
> presented
> >> to the State Department as private and confidential. This advice was
> >> because virtually all requests are for proprietary programs and
> products.
> >> Sticking out in this regard, by doing something they advised strongly
> >> against, would not work to our
> >> advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the
> wrong
> >> hill.  as an admission that NDA's are indeed important and not just
> >> convenient."
> >>
> >> Is this not the very essence of Non-Disclosure Agreements? Without the
> >> transparency which seems to be lacking here this comes across as a
> simple
> >> political stunt. Enough already.
> >>
> >> I am not voting for any TEAM, I'm putting my trust in individuals whom I
> >> respect and trust and have no agenda other than serving AMSAT to keep
> >> amateur radio in space.
> >>
> >> EMike, AA8EM
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> E. Michael McCardel, AA8EM, former KC8YLD
> >> Former Senior Editor for AMSAT News Service,
> >> Past VP Educational Relations for AMSAT-NA
> >> Former Ohio Section Affiliated Club Coordinator
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 18:56:16 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 14:56:16 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2VA8K-TWiq6cnOHVVNRu8bSup+yOReSHcoF-t4jWkdgQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM5+sovXZHutC_6FmCNFJVf6+dXceGbLk2Qe9tbd=X4OfuNcPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2VA8K-TWiq6cnOHVVNRu8bSup+yOReSHcoF-t4jWkdgQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c9Eko7CG6XKDO8_YpL70dfPULD0D6qx2hOzVrGDqL32EA@mail.gmail.com>

Michelle,

The request form itself contains ALL OF THE INFORMATION that anyone on the
-bb should care about on this matter.

For all we know right now, the request paperwork may not have even
referenced the designs that you speak of.  We literally have no way of
knowing.

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO


On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:18 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> You might have missed the part where all of the information in this
> particular CJ request is already publicly available. It's already
> transparent.
>
> The submitted form itself is not usually published. That's the only
> restriction we are talking about.
>
> This is fundamentally different from refusing to allow Directors access to
> corporate records unless they sign NDAs, then showing up without the actual
> NDAs, then continuing to deny access to records and communications after
> everyone signed a blank form that purported to be a signature form for
> these alleged NDAs. Some of which have yet to be produced and you as a
> member are not allowed to know about.
>
> Your attack is off base and inaccurate. I'm sorry you feel the way you do.
> This work means that things can get dramatically better for the
> organization in highly visible and measurable ways.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 9:33 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > Just an observation. Among all of this talk, during the past BOoD
> election
> > cycle, about Transparency, I find it amazing that the excuse of the
> Lawyers
> > or others don't think it wise to disclose information can even be an
> > argument.
> >
> > Michelle Wrote:
> > "Unless, of course, this  Information contained in CJ requests is not
> > usually made public. The law firm would not file it unless it was
> presented
> > to the State Department as private and confidential. This advice was
> > because virtually all requests are for proprietary programs and products.
> > Sticking out in this regard, by doing something they advised strongly
> > against, would not work to our
> > advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the wrong
> > hill.  as an admission that NDA's are indeed important and not just
> > convenient."
> >
> > Is this not the very essence of Non-Disclosure Agreements? Without the
> > transparency which seems to be lacking here this comes across as a simple
> > political stunt. Enough already.
> >
> > I am not voting for any TEAM, I'm putting my trust in individuals whom I
> > respect and trust and have no agenda other than serving AMSAT to keep
> > amateur radio in space.
> >
> > EMike, AA8EM
> >
> >
> >
> > E. Michael McCardel, AA8EM, former KC8YLD
> > Former Senior Editor for AMSAT News Service,
> > Past VP Educational Relations for AMSAT-NA
> > Former Ohio Section Affiliated Club Coordinator
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From jeff30339 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 18:56:54 2020
From: jeff30339 at gmail.com (Jeff Johns)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:56:54 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards
Message-ID: <F77C7572-361B-455D-B266-DF2E53EBD020@gmail.com>

?What does Michelle, an AMSAT volunteer and Board member, making an announcement about something she raised funds for and accomplished that can possibly benefit AMSAT have to do with politics? 

I?m not an EE or an ITAR/EAR expert but what I see is an enthusiastic volunteer that is talking the talk and walking the walk and doing so in an attempt to help AMSAT and anyone else wanting to build amateur satellites. 

What is anyone from within AMSAT doing in the same regards? Who is writing grant requests? Who is working with legal teams (not the teams used to muffle new Board members) to work on these carve outs? Maybe it is happening within AMSAT but getting any news out of AMSAT is frustrating for members. 

Michelle says that she reached out to AMSAT at the Symposium and via other methods but didn?t get any replies from within the organization? Why not? Why isn?t AMSAT embracing someone that is obviously enthusiastic and has the ability to raise funds on her own. Why isn?t AMSAT using these synergies within the organization?

I just think it?s sad to see so many basically attacking Michelle for being proud of an accomplishment. An accomplishment that AMSAT could have claimed under the AMSAT banner had they been willing to work with her. Why is there such a fear from legacy leadership of new thoughts, ideas and methods? 

We should all be thanking Michelle for working on this and encouraging and helping rather than berating her. If an outsider where to look at this, would they really want to volunteer for AMSAT or would they fear they would be attacked for attempting to do great things? 

Some of those running for office against me are promising the world an HEO satellite. Seems to me that we will need the work that Michelle is freely doing and donating to the world to make that happen under current laws, rules and regulations. 

Even though I may not be an ITAR expert, I can appreciate the fact that Michelle has worked on her accomplishment and is freely sharing it with AMSAT. Is it really that difficult for people to just say ?thank you?? It?s not hard for me so, Michelle, thank you for donating your time and talents to help further amateur satellites and for helping to keep amateur radio in space. There are those in the community that can recognize your efforts and appreciate them. 

Jeff WE4B 
http://we4bravo.com

> On Aug 19, 2020, at 1:20 PM, E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?My final word. At least some people on your agendized team, for the take over of AMSAT, I hold or have held in high respect. That is, at least until they allowed themselves to be associated with this travesty of ego. I now question their judgement And motivation. That?s on you. TEAM politics isn?t what this is about. Character, track record, and how I have seen candidates treat Me and others is how I will vote.
> 
> I am highly disappointed that this has turned into a we / they campaign. The organization is better than that. Regardless of the outcome of this election, I judge AMSAT and it reputation will be damaged moving forward.
> 
> EMike, AA8EM
> 
> EMike McCardel, AA8EM
> Past Senior Editor AMSAT News Service
> Past AMSAT-NA VP Educational Relations
> Former ARRL, Ohio Section, Affiliated Club Coordinator

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 19:20:56 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 12:20:56 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c9Eko7CG6XKDO8_YpL70dfPULD0D6qx2hOzVrGDqL32EA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM5+sovXZHutC_6FmCNFJVf6+dXceGbLk2Qe9tbd=X4OfuNcPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2VA8K-TWiq6cnOHVVNRu8bSup+yOReSHcoF-t4jWkdgQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c9Eko7CG6XKDO8_YpL70dfPULD0D6qx2hOzVrGDqL32EA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2UU6TbrqgAviKzUm8jBiL_GPeB=CXEzUJ5JJJvvG+T4QQ@mail.gmail.com>

If the request paperwork did not show ITAR 120.11 designs and policies,
then it would not have been approved. All of the information is available
already, to the general public. That's why it was successful. The work is
NOT subject to ITAR because the approach complies with existing
regulations.

This is not an easy process to get through.

The result is really good news.

You can keep arguing with the US State Department all you like, but I don't
think that is a very good strategy. This dramatically reduces volunteer
risk for AMSAT and all related organizations. It has a huge positive impact
for free and open international collaboration on amateur
satellite projects.

Thank you to everyone that will be a positive part of this going forward.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 11:54 AM Joseph Armbruster <
josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:

> Michelle,
>
> The request form itself contains ALL OF THE INFORMATION that anyone on the
> -bb should care about on this matter.
>
> For all we know right now, the request paperwork may not have even
> referenced the designs that you speak of.  We literally have no way of
> knowing.
>
> Joseph Armbruster
> KJ4JIO
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:18 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> You might have missed the part where all of the information in this
>> particular CJ request is already publicly available. It's already
>> transparent.
>>
>> The submitted form itself is not usually published. That's the only
>> restriction we are talking about.
>>
>> This is fundamentally different from refusing to allow Directors access to
>> corporate records unless they sign NDAs, then showing up without the
>> actual
>> NDAs, then continuing to deny access to records and communications after
>> everyone signed a blank form that purported to be a signature form for
>> these alleged NDAs. Some of which have yet to be produced and you as a
>> member are not allowed to know about.
>>
>> Your attack is off base and inaccurate. I'm sorry you feel the way you do.
>> This work means that things can get dramatically better for the
>> organization in highly visible and measurable ways.
>>
>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 9:33 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Just an observation. Among all of this talk, during the past BOoD
>> election
>> > cycle, about Transparency, I find it amazing that the excuse of the
>> Lawyers
>> > or others don't think it wise to disclose information can even be an
>> > argument.
>> >
>> > Michelle Wrote:
>> > "Unless, of course, this  Information contained in CJ requests is not
>> > usually made public. The law firm would not file it unless it was
>> presented
>> > to the State Department as private and confidential. This advice was
>> > because virtually all requests are for proprietary programs and
>> products.
>> > Sticking out in this regard, by doing something they advised strongly
>> > against, would not work to our
>> > advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the
>> wrong
>> > hill.  as an admission that NDA's are indeed important and not just
>> > convenient."
>> >
>> > Is this not the very essence of Non-Disclosure Agreements? Without the
>> > transparency which seems to be lacking here this comes across as a
>> simple
>> > political stunt. Enough already.
>> >
>> > I am not voting for any TEAM, I'm putting my trust in individuals whom I
>> > respect and trust and have no agenda other than serving AMSAT to keep
>> > amateur radio in space.
>> >
>> > EMike, AA8EM
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > E. Michael McCardel, AA8EM, former KC8YLD
>> > Former Senior Editor for AMSAT News Service,
>> > Past VP Educational Relations for AMSAT-NA
>> > Former Ohio Section Affiliated Club Coordinator
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions
>> > expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> > AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>

From dave at druidnetworks.com  Wed Aug 19 19:32:04 2020
From: dave at druidnetworks.com (David Swanson)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 14:32:04 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOtPNcQ00gY346GybPkdQOoYpNKnzkJjfVjd+R2EjBXGig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2VA8K-TWiq6cnOHVVNRu8bSup+yOReSHcoF-t4jWkdgQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BDB7F3B4-5DE9-483B-8EF7-4D117A8D25B7@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtPNcQ00gY346GybPkdQOoYpNKnzkJjfVjd+R2EjBXGig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANq+eyXSR3UUb+GwTqV6mcfzJT29SxtQwSfR4+yboBMfd8wZ+g@mail.gmail.com>

I'm sorry - but this thread is absolutely hilarious, and the last reply by
Mr. Perens is the cherry on top of the stupidity cake.

Michelle and her comrades have spouted all about transparency and openness
for the past year, but when they're presented with an opportunity to be
transparent and open with their competing organizations they play the 'Our
Lawyers said not to share card'. When presented with their hypocrisy they
retreat to the completely expected position of politicians everywhere by
claiming that while AMSAT should make everything open, ORI has a right to
keep things secret, because what they're doing is special and different.
And then - amazingly - still have the audacity to somehow justify their
position by claiming AMSAT isn't launching satellites? Unless I'm mistaken,
ORI/Perens Inc. have launched precisely *ZERO* birds ever - AMSAT has put 4
birds in orbit since I've been a member, and has provided parts and
guidance to countless 3rd parties to launch their own birds. They have a
realistic plan to get more birds into the orbits operators want despite not
being part of the in-crowd... I have complete faith that they will deliver,
because they already have. ORI has delivered jack all except promises and
chaos.

Maybe - just MAYBE - this thread lays bare what the community will be
getting with "the slate" of candidates. A whole bunch of "Thee, but not for
me" type of leadership, and a whole bunch of empty guarantees.

-Dave, KG5CCI

On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:17 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Sorry you feel that way. The unfortunate fact is that AMSAT has already
> been judged by its outside funding organizations, and is going to have a
> hard time surmounting that without a major change in leadership. It isn't
> going to matter much for you to stick with leadership who can't can't build
> and launch enough satellites. That is what it is coming to. Fixing that is
> the only agenda.
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 11:18 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > My final word. At least some people on your agendized team, for the take
> > over of AMSAT, I hold or have held in high respect. That is, at least
> until
> > they allowed themselves to be associated with this travesty of ego. I now
> > question their judgement And motivation. That?s on you. TEAM politics
> isn?t
> > what this is about. Character, track record, and how I have seen
> candidates
> > treat Me and others is how I will vote.
> >
> > I am highly disappointed that this has turned into a we / they campaign.
> > The organization is better than that. Regardless of the outcome of this
> > election, I judge AMSAT and it reputation will be damaged moving forward.
> >
> > EMike, AA8EM
> >
> > EMike McCardel, AA8EM
> > Past Senior Editor AMSAT News Service
> > Past AMSAT-NA VP Educational Relations
> > Former ARRL, Ohio Section, Affiliated Club Coordinator
> >
> >
> > > On Aug 19, 2020, at 1:11 PM, Michelle Thompson <
> > mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > ?
> > > You might have missed the part where all of the information in this
> > particular CJ request is already publicly available. It's already
> > transparent.
> > >
> > > The submitted form itself is not usually published. That's the only
> > restriction we are talking about.
> > >
> > > This is fundamentally different from refusing to allow Directors access
> > to corporate records unless they sign NDAs, then showing up without the
> > actual NDAs, then continuing to deny access to records and communications
> > after everyone signed a blank form that purported to be a signature form
> > for these alleged NDAs. Some of which have yet to be produced and you as
> a
> > member are not allowed to know about.
> > >
> > > Your attack is off base and inaccurate. I'm sorry you feel the way you
> > do. This work means that things can get dramatically better for the
> > organization in highly visible and measurable ways.
> > >
> > > -Michelle W5NYV
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 9:33 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> > >> Just an observation. Among all of this talk, during the past BOoD
> > election
> > >> cycle, about Transparency, I find it amazing that the excuse of the
> > Lawyers
> > >> or others don't think it wise to disclose information can even be an
> > >> argument.
> > >>
> > >> Michelle Wrote:
> > >> "Unless, of course, this  Information contained in CJ requests is not
> > >> usually made public. The law firm would not file it unless it was
> > presented
> > >> to the State Department as private and confidential. This advice was
> > >> because virtually all requests are for proprietary programs and
> > products.
> > >> Sticking out in this regard, by doing something they advised strongly
> > >> against, would not work to our
> > >> advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the
> > wrong
> > >> hill.  as an admission that NDA's are indeed important and not just
> > >> convenient."
> > >>
> > >> Is this not the very essence of Non-Disclosure Agreements? Without the
> > >> transparency which seems to be lacking here this comes across as a
> > simple
> > >> political stunt. Enough already.
> > >>
> > >> I am not voting for any TEAM, I'm putting my trust in individuals
> whom I
> > >> respect and trust and have no agenda other than serving AMSAT to keep
> > >> amateur radio in space.
> > >>
> > >> EMike, AA8EM
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> E. Michael McCardel, AA8EM, former KC8YLD
> > >> Former Senior Editor for AMSAT News Service,
> > >> Past VP Educational Relations for AMSAT-NA
> > >> Former Ohio Section Affiliated Club Coordinator
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions expressed
> > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> > of AMSAT-NA.
> > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > >> Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 18:48:42 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 14:48:42 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2XfdLSUwmxNfaVe5zkKS_WrvVHzUcBRuokD8jz8u=R9iw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_ov12dpaeP3QdTPZ9_QDBbNMdncOVEC_APvSoMfzp17g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XJXBNXj9Wwy_B7QfsKZ0-MkHHzxhBx=OckUbMM_QZu2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-VK-+XATBQ-EexkfnQLm81RxhQkd_AwYCudiMHjT1gCA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2URcX=hdNmtFfb55J7GrsqLDkwzKp1HM=bXWm3+7vYvAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_jsYk+jeD7Ps3hQWhwH2eRpASGCzF9S2EqR7RH4yVnzA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2WOWCbnVYhG4A_vaan-MPhGqp9bQpVsjG5H2hHxCPoLqQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_=H6nTEGpAVwCzmO5u7kCexxTtGnPh6zT1wMbn8k08ZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XfdLSUwmxNfaVe5zkKS_WrvVHzUcBRuokD8jz8u=R9iw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c9_8tXut-PHrWCDZo6rbJAMvKFrFpt=wr2Xu81FSvj_7g@mail.gmail.com>

Michelle,


There's a major, major difference between what you are trying to accomplish
from an 'open and transparency' perspective and what your average
commercial business would do (or AMSAT would likely do, with NDAs in
place...)


There's no need for me to publish any of my companies info, because this is
not really about my business.  I did not release an email to the -bb with
the title "Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR".
That's quite a claim and mama didn't raise no fool here and I know the
devil's always in the details with these kinds of things.  And we haven't
been provided with any of the details yet, only claims of success!  I know,
with absolute certainty, that you can have an "open source design",
alllllll you want, composed of specific hardware components that may only
be available to US Persons, you can publish it here, there and everywhere!
However, if you attempted to put the hardware in a box and ship it outside
the US for integration, without an export permit, you can get into major
trouble.  Private companies that develop products and/or offer services for
others typically work under NDAs and they have unique IP interests
(designs, business relationships, etc...) that they wish to protect/keep
secret.  If that kind of information is included in the CJ request, it's up
to the submitter to serve their agreements and protect the information
(if-so-agreed-upon).


>From what i've observed, what you're trying to do is the polar opposite.
It's suppose to be about open source, becoming free of ITAR, serving the
amateur radio community, making all the designs public and free of IP
constraints and most importantly, being transparent about the process (....
and you all seem to use the noble term "Transparency", quite a bit... ref
previous -bb emails...).  If all the designs are public and there's no IP
to protect, why would the CJ request need to be kept private?  The request
that was submitted and adjudicated, contained specific words, likely
referenced specific designs, that may or may not have referenced any of the
designs that you are referring to.  It's impossible for any of us to make
any sense of your release, or substantiate Any of the claims, without it.
This is the difference in my opinion.  You're obviously not going to find
any other companies submissions around, because they are by-nature, focused
on secrecy and protecting IP, not doing charitable work.  Yours on the
other hand, should be about transparency to the open source / amateur
community, not about secrecy and protecting whatever it is...


And, you may say that what i'm asking for is something the "law firm
specifically advised against doing"... but we all know that's just
silly...  Anyone here on the-bb can look up the exact form and see what
data is requested on it.  There is nothing that any open source guru
wouldn't be more than willing to disclose publicly.


That's my 10 cents,

Joseph Armbruster

KJ4JIO


On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 1:03 PM Michelle Thompson <
mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes. Again, all the information that went into the DS-4076 is already
> publicly available (designs and policies). You can find all the design
> information in our repositories and the policies on our website.
>
> You can see a significant part of the described transmitter design for
> yourself in the review workshop video I posted about a week ago here on
> -BB.
>
> The posting of the submitted DS-4076 seems to be so rare that I cannot
> find an example of one shared on the web. You are asking for something that
> the law firm specifically advised against doing. Again, I have said I would
> raise the issue next time I meet with them.
>
> If you can show me your company's DS-4076 postings, then maybe that would
> help support your point of view. I couldn't find them on the web. I'd
> appreciate the name of the consulting firm or law firm that your company
> used for the CJ Requests so I can call them about their approach to
> releasing their work products. This is an area I'm very interested in for a
> variety of reasons, not just for amateur radio. I'm in strong favor of
> publishing everything possible, but all of us need to honor legitimate or
> required limitations, like the ones we are discussing here.
>
> If it's routine to post DS-4076 submissions, and if you somehow can't use
> a final determination without them, then I should be seeing a lot more
> published DS-4076s than final determination letters. That doesn't appear to
> be the case at all from looking at the list of determinations made over the
> past couple of years, tracking down ones that published their final
> determination letters, and looking for DS-4076s.
>
> All the information and policies involved in this particular request are
> already public. The existence of the determination can be independently
> verified. Your questions have all been answered in the affirmative.
>
> AMSAT's ITAR/EAR consulting firm was notified of this CJ Request process,
> application, and the final determination. The response has been very
> positive and supportive throughout. There are no roadblocks to using this
> final determination to establish a safe and sane open source policy for
> AMSAT from the consulting firm that AMSAT already uses. The proposal and
> retainer fee from this consulting firm for this policy work is sitting on
> the President's desk. I've done all the work necessary to make it easy and
> effective. It's a pleasure to be able to do so, and I look forward to a
> renaissance in the technical volunteer corps.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 8:16 AM Joseph Armbruster <
> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Michelle,
>>
>> The determination letter itself needs to be interpreted in the correct
>> context.  Noone on the -bb can make any sense of that determination letter
>> right now, without seeing a copy of what was submitted on the form
>> DS-4076.  I can not find this posted publicly anywhere, did I miss it?
>>
>> Is the submitted form DS-4076 (and supplemental materials if-any),
>> posted publicly?
>>
>> If-not, this whole announcement is basically a shoulder shrug for me.  It
>> Sounds great... but, we have no evidence that the determination letter
>> actually means anything of value.
>>
>> On question 2, it is good to know there was no back and forth 'juicy'
>> communication.  For the record, it is not uncommon to have a back-and-forth
>> with them.  They typically ask a lot of questions and dig into the
>> requests...  Knowing this fact, will make it that much easier for all of
>> us on the -bb to make sense of your announcement, once we have all the
>> information.... right now, we do Not have all the required information.
>>
>> Joseph Armbruster
>> KJ4JIO
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 10:48 AM Michelle Thompson <
>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The final determination letter is the only communication we received.
>>>
>>> Public link to the letter is in the announcement.
>>>
>>> I was not contacted during the 7 months of review by the government.
>>> Neither were the lawyers.
>>>
>>> I kept up with the request as it worked its way through DHS, DOD, and
>>> BIS by using the DDTC request status server.
>>>
>>> BIS was necessary because we included encryption. There was a lengthy
>>> discussion on whether or not to include encryption.
>>>
>>> Those of you that know the regulations know we are allowed to use
>>> encryption. However, this complicates the request in several ways. It
>>> requires an entire additional department to review, and there are a lot of
>>> potential pitfalls here.
>>>
>>> Not including encryption would make it faster and easier to approve, but
>>> would make the result incomplete.
>>>
>>> We decided to include encryption, trigger the extra scrutiny, and we
>>> worked through all the language. If we were going to run the marathon then
>>> we needed to run the entire marathon.
>>>
>>> I don't believe there is usually a lot of correspondence between
>>> requestor and DDTC at all. I was told to be available for questions (from
>>> the reviewer) but that contact would be very highly unlikely.
>>>
>>> Making the request is not a negotiation or collaboration. There is no
>>> juicy trove of emails. The silence from the government was absolute.
>>>
>>> We had to have the best possible information and case upon submission,
>>> and be prepared for any outcome.
>>>
>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 07:09 Joseph Armbruster <
>>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Michelle,
>>>>
>>>> Public link to a copy of the submitted form DS-4076 (and supplemental
>>>> materials if-any)?
>>>>
>>>> Public link to a copy of all communications with the DDTC?
>>>>
>>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>>> KJ4JIO
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 10:02 AM Michelle Thompson <
>>>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Again, all information used in the request is already public.
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, the policies used to make the succesful request are also
>>>>> already public and in use.
>>>>>
>>>>> You are spilling a lot of ink  asking for things to be shared that
>>>>> have already been shared. I've already said I will ask the firm what can be
>>>>> released.
>>>>>
>>>>> The final determination is of enormous benefit to AMSAT and many other
>>>>> organizations. The request was deliberately designed that way, and it
>>>>> worked.
>>>>>
>>>>> Time to put it to work for AMSAT.
>>>>>
>>>>> And celebrate! :+)
>>>>>
>>>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 06:24 Joseph Armbruster <
>>>>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Michelle,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Standby.  The community has absolutely no reason, whatsoever to trust
>>>>>> any guidelines your group is publishing, unless the community is given
>>>>>> direct insight into the request itself and all direct communications with
>>>>>> the DDTC, so that the context and realities of the determination can be
>>>>>> validated.  What i'm asking for here is not inappropriate, given the
>>>>>> history, context or claims being made.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This, "Just trust what we say we did", is Not Transparent and does
>>>>>> not instill confidence in anyone about what is going on.  I do, on the
>>>>>> other hand, have Hope, that the claims being made are supported.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will say though, I actually laughed out loud when I read
>>>>>> "Information contained in CJ requests is not usually made public. The law
>>>>>> firm would not file it unless it was presented to the State Department as
>>>>>> private and confidential."  Because, C'mon.. noone in their right
>>>>>> mind is going to read that and say "oh yeah!" and agree that they should
>>>>>> just turn their brains off to the actual request.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With respects to the first sentence, the reality is that most
>>>>>> companies dealing with the DDTC are exporting defense articles and
>>>>>> services.  As a result, there's usually a contractual need (and
>>>>>> could be a real life/death reason) to keep the communications with the
>>>>>> DDTC, confidential.  Because the intent here is not to manufacture/export
>>>>>> defense articles or services, there should be no harm in the request being
>>>>>> made public.  I mean, I believe everyone on the -bb would unanimously Want
>>>>>> to see it.   On the second sentence, I have an attorney on retainer for my
>>>>>> business and I could easily go to them and say "All communications between
>>>>>> parties A and B for this effort will be placed into the public domain, in
>>>>>> support of an outreach effort going on with this charity, so treat it that
>>>>>> way".  And, that's what would happen, because, that's what I would be
>>>>>> paying them to do.  In addition, I am free to take my legal business
>>>>>> elsewhere if-need-be and I do not have to beg, plead, or pay for any
>>>>>> release.  Sometimes, having a second set of legal eyes on legal work
>>>>>> products is a good thing.  I would not have the firm file on my behalf with
>>>>>> the DDTC, because there's really no need.  That's giving them more power
>>>>>> and responsibility in the process than they actually need.  I'd use them
>>>>>> more as support personnel / consultants on an as-needed basis, vs the
>>>>>> directors of the effort that you now have to beg for a release (of your own
>>>>>> information...)  This sounds like a disaster.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The contents of a CJ request is private and confidential if and only
>>>>>> if the submitting party treats it that way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>>>>>
>>>>>> KJ4JIO
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 11:23 PM Michelle Thompson <
>>>>>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, Joseph, it?s amazing news and It is just as good as advertised.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The result is of enormous and direct benefit to AMSAT.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AMSAT was asked to join the request. I sent a paper letter, wrote
>>>>>>> the board, brought it up during the 2019 annual board meeting, and
>>>>>>> published an open letter. I did all I could to enable the full
>>>>>>> participation of the one organization that stands to benefit the most from
>>>>>>> this determination.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But, the men you voted for did not respond, at all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It took a year of very hard work. It?s a gift to the community. It
>>>>>>> can restore free and open international collaboration.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That?s it. There?s no tricks or gotchas. It is what it is claimed to
>>>>>>> be.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would have done the same work and raised the same money if AMSAT
>>>>>>> had wanted their name on it. I would be just as proud and would be saying
>>>>>>> the same things. When work needs to be done, it needs to be done.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Information contained in CJ requests is not usually made public. The
>>>>>>> law firm would not file it unless it was presented to the State Department
>>>>>>> as private and confidential. This advice was because virtually all requests
>>>>>>> are for proprietary programs and products. Sticking out in this regard, by
>>>>>>> doing something they advised strongly against, would not work to our
>>>>>>> advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the wrong
>>>>>>> hill.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Additionally, the law firm does not want their work products or
>>>>>>> email correspondence published. We will honor that. We want to work with
>>>>>>> them again. They were fantastic, recommended by EFF, and 100% supportive of
>>>>>>> open source.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fortunately, *everything* that went into the request is already
>>>>>>> public information. All our designs, details, policies, procedures,
>>>>>>> definitions, diagrams, and code are available to the general public free of
>>>>>>> charge, today. That?s the primary reason it succeeded. We already follow
>>>>>>> the law with respect to public domain carve outs and publishing
>>>>>>> requirements. The final determination shows the value of this approach.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AMSAT can do this too. There is literally no reason not to. This is
>>>>>>> the game changer people have been waiting for.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *All* of what *anyone* will need to know to take full advantage will
>>>>>>> be published in a set of implementation guidelines.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is the single best risk reduction for AMSAT volunteers that
>>>>>>> exists in US law. It is the gold standard. We have access as a community to
>>>>>>> this result because a team of very committed and competent people made it
>>>>>>> happen and are now going to make it easy to use.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Want to contribute to the guidelines? Participants are welcome.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 18:01 Joseph Armbruster <
>>>>>>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michelle,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is quite interesting, indeed!  However, from your press
>>>>>>>> release, I really have no clue what "Information and Software for a Digital
>>>>>>>> Microwave Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur
>>>>>>>> Radio Use", means (in terms of the legalese, definitions and proper nouns
>>>>>>>> used, etc...).  Depending on how they were defined, the determination may
>>>>>>>> or may not be directly relevant to AMSAT or anyone else for that matter...
>>>>>>>> And just to be clear, i'm not trying to be a spoiler here or anything, this
>>>>>>>> could be really amazing news, or nothing more than a null determination
>>>>>>>> that sounds great in a headline but really means nothing.  I think Everyone
>>>>>>>> would welcome relaxed ITAR constraints on AMSAT engineers, in any
>>>>>>>> way, shape or form...  That being said, this begs the question, is the Form
>>>>>>>> DS-4076 and all supplemental materials, along with all written
>>>>>>>> communications with the DOS/DDTC concerning this matter, being made
>>>>>>>> public?  I think this would be absolutely necessary for anyone on the list
>>>>>>>> to get excited about this, in any way, shape or form.  I looked on the ORI
>>>>>>>> website and couldn't find anything around Feb 2020 (per the date the
>>>>>>>> indicated submission was made per the AUG11 reply from the DDTC).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Although, I am not a particular fan of ORI so-far, which is why I
>>>>>>>> voted for Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I do commend any individual or entity that is able and willing to
>>>>>>>> deal with the DOS or DDTC.  It takes a lot of time and $.  At one point, my
>>>>>>>> business helped develop parts of a research UAV for a foreign military on a
>>>>>>>> high-altitude balloon, which included a wireless network.  One export
>>>>>>>> permit took over six months, with back-and-forths with questions and
>>>>>>>> clarifications, questions and clarifications, more questions and
>>>>>>>> clarifications... on and on and on...  Just because they say you can
>>>>>>>> produce Information and Software for a widget (however those are defined),
>>>>>>>> it doesn't necessarily mean you can actually get a permit to ship the
>>>>>>>> hardware with the software on it, anywhere.  Because the 'Information and
>>>>>>>> Software' (however defined), may not govern the hardware used.  In my case,
>>>>>>>> there were special accelerometers and gyros, that you don't purchase
>>>>>>>> without providing a lot of information.  So, no matter what software was
>>>>>>>> written to drive them, if you shipped them out of the country without a
>>>>>>>> permit, look out!  I remember finally getting my first export permit and
>>>>>>>> shipping label and putting it on the box and sending some hardware out.  It
>>>>>>>> was just a sticky label that went on a box, but wow, it wasn't easy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It sure would be nice if ITAR was less of an issue but the devil's
>>>>>>>> really in the details here...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>>>>>>> KJ4JIO
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 12:29 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>>>>>>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://openresearch.institute/2020/08/18/cj-determination-open-source-satellite-work-is-free-of-itar/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The United States Department of State has ruled favorably on Open
>>>>>>>>> Research
>>>>>>>>> Institute's commodity jurisdiction request, finding that specified
>>>>>>>>> ?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave Broadband
>>>>>>>>> Communications
>>>>>>>>> System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio Use? is definitely
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> subject to State Department jurisdiction under ITAR, the
>>>>>>>>> International
>>>>>>>>> Traffic in Arms Regulations. This is an important step toward
>>>>>>>>> reducing the
>>>>>>>>> burden of regulations restricting international cooperation on
>>>>>>>>> amateur
>>>>>>>>> satellite projects, which have impeded engineering work by
>>>>>>>>> amateurs in the
>>>>>>>>> United States for decades.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Export regulations divide both technical information and actual
>>>>>>>>> hardware
>>>>>>>>> into three categories. The most heavily restricted technologies
>>>>>>>>> fall under
>>>>>>>>> ITAR, which is administered by the State Department. Technologies
>>>>>>>>> subject
>>>>>>>>> to more routine restrictions fall under EAR, the Export
>>>>>>>>> Administration
>>>>>>>>> Regulations, administered by the Department of Commerce.
>>>>>>>>> Technologies that
>>>>>>>>> are not subject to either set of regulations are not restricted
>>>>>>>>> for export.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 20 February 2020, Open Research Institute (ORI) filed a
>>>>>>>>> Commodity
>>>>>>>>> Jurisdiction (CJ) Request with the US State Department, seeking to
>>>>>>>>> establish that key technologies for amateur radio are not subject
>>>>>>>>> to State
>>>>>>>>> Department jurisdiction. ?Information and Software for a Digital
>>>>>>>>> Microwave
>>>>>>>>> Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur
>>>>>>>>> Radio
>>>>>>>>> Use? was assigned the case number CJ0003120. On 11 August 2020,
>>>>>>>>> the case
>>>>>>>>> received a successful final determination: the technology is not
>>>>>>>>> subject to
>>>>>>>>> State Department jurisdiction. This is the best possible outcome
>>>>>>>>> of a CJ
>>>>>>>>> request.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Final Determination letter can be found at
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/08/CJ-0003120-Final-Determination-Letter.pdf
>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Under this determination, the technologies are subject to the EAR.
>>>>>>>>> The next
>>>>>>>>> step is to submit a classification request to the Commerce
>>>>>>>>> Department. ORI
>>>>>>>>> anticipates that the Commerce Department will find that these
>>>>>>>>> technologies
>>>>>>>>> are unrestricted under the carve-out for open source in the EAR.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Open Research Institute (ORI) is a non-profit research and
>>>>>>>>> development
>>>>>>>>> organization which provides all of its work to the general public
>>>>>>>>> under the
>>>>>>>>> principles of Open Source and Open Access to Research.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This work was accomplished by a team of dedicated and competent
>>>>>>>>> open source
>>>>>>>>> volunteers. The effort was initiated by Bruce Perens K6BP and lead
>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>> Michelle Thompson W5NYV.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Open Research Institute developed the ideas behind the Commodity
>>>>>>>>> Jurisdiction request, hired Thomsen and Burke LLP (
>>>>>>>>> https://t-b.com/) for
>>>>>>>>> expert legal advice, organized the revisions of the document, and
>>>>>>>>> invited
>>>>>>>>> organizations and individuals with amateur satellite service
>>>>>>>>> interests to
>>>>>>>>> join or support the request.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ORI thanks Libre Space Foundation and Dr. Daniel Estevez for
>>>>>>>>> providing
>>>>>>>>> their subject matter expertise and written testimony, and JAMSAT
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> helpful encouragement and support.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The legal costs were fully reimbursed with a generous grant from
>>>>>>>>> Amateur
>>>>>>>>> Radio Digital Communications (ARDC). See
>>>>>>>>> https://www.ampr.org/grants/grant-open-research-institute/.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ARDC and ORI share a vision of clearly establishing open source as
>>>>>>>>> the best
>>>>>>>>> and safest way to accomplish technical volunteer work in amateur
>>>>>>>>> radio.
>>>>>>>>> This final determination letter provides solid support for that
>>>>>>>>> vision. The
>>>>>>>>> determination enables the development of implementation guidelines
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> will allow free international collaboration.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This clears the path for a number of interesting projects
>>>>>>>>> facilitating new
>>>>>>>>> methods for terrestrial and satellite communications, opening the
>>>>>>>>> door to
>>>>>>>>> robust global digital amateur communications.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Questions and inquiries to ori at openresearch.institute
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>>>>>>>> available
>>>>>>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>>>>>>> Opinions expressed
>>>>>>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>>>>>>>> views of AMSAT-NA.
>>>>>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>>>>>>> program!
>>>>>>>>> Subscription settings:
>>>>>>>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>

From sjdevience at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 20:07:19 2020
From: sjdevience at gmail.com (Stephen DeVience)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 15:07:19 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards
Message-ID: <CAMPfQQCttZ+QLbRFY9K8WLqfHWJnxwikqzemZM61tiLZA88nqg@mail.gmail.com>

This bulletin board must be what it's like to see Space-X and ULA or Boeing
and Airbus in the same room. Maybe it would be better if ORI and AMSAT
remained totally separate organizations, and this vitriol could be
harnessed through healthy competition, an amateur space-race back to HEO.
May the best philosophy win!

-Stephen, N8URE

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 20:36:37 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:36:37 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards
In-Reply-To: <CANq+eyXSR3UUb+GwTqV6mcfzJT29SxtQwSfR4+yboBMfd8wZ+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2VA8K-TWiq6cnOHVVNRu8bSup+yOReSHcoF-t4jWkdgQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BDB7F3B4-5DE9-483B-8EF7-4D117A8D25B7@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtPNcQ00gY346GybPkdQOoYpNKnzkJjfVjd+R2EjBXGig@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyXSR3UUb+GwTqV6mcfzJT29SxtQwSfR4+yboBMfd8wZ+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2VmVq-qiCWhV-HEu7UY1G7GnHSU2GZyEEGndMnb7CNnvQ@mail.gmail.com>

All of the information contained in the request is already public.

I've presented my satellite credentials, both amateur and professional, in
the past, several times. I've explained what I've contributed to in orbit.
We have volunteers with a wide variety of commercial satellite success
across three continents. We have a lot of experienced people. Your
description is completely inaccurate and unfair. I'm not sure why you keep
doing this given the proven track record of the active volunteer corps of
ORI.

You know, there's a lot of AMSAT/ORI volunteers. Attacking ORI is attacking
AMSAT, since it's an AMSAT Member Society. Attacking ORI is attacking AMSAT
volunteers, given the large amount of crossover. Please stop.

The submission packet itself for a CJ Request is not normally made public.
I've agreed to try and get it published. As far as I can tell, this would
be unique.

But, hey, the successful CJ Request result was unique, so why not. I might
be able to pull it off.

-Michelle W5NYV



On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 1:21 PM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I'm sorry - but this thread is absolutely hilarious, and the last reply by
> Mr. Perens is the cherry on top of the stupidity cake.
>
> Michelle and her comrades have spouted all about transparency and openness
> for the past year, but when they're presented with an opportunity to be
> transparent and open with their competing organizations they play the 'Our
> Lawyers said not to share card'. When presented with their hypocrisy they
> retreat to the completely expected position of politicians everywhere by
> claiming that while AMSAT should make everything open, ORI has a right to
> keep things secret, because what they're doing is special and different.
> And then - amazingly - still have the audacity to somehow justify their
> position by claiming AMSAT isn't launching satellites? Unless I'm mistaken,
> ORI/Perens Inc. have launched precisely *ZERO* birds ever - AMSAT has put 4
> birds in orbit since I've been a member, and has provided parts and
> guidance to countless 3rd parties to launch their own birds. They have a
> realistic plan to get more birds into the orbits operators want despite not
> being part of the in-crowd... I have complete faith that they will deliver,
> because they already have. ORI has delivered jack all except promises and
> chaos.
>
> Maybe - just MAYBE - this thread lays bare what the community will be
> getting with "the slate" of candidates. A whole bunch of "Thee, but not for
> me" type of leadership, and a whole bunch of empty guarantees.
>
> -Dave, KG5CCI
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:17 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > Sorry you feel that way. The unfortunate fact is that AMSAT has already
> > been judged by its outside funding organizations, and is going to have a
> > hard time surmounting that without a major change in leadership. It isn't
> > going to matter much for you to stick with leadership who can't can't
> build
> > and launch enough satellites. That is what it is coming to. Fixing that
> is
> > the only agenda.
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 11:18 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > > My final word. At least some people on your agendized team, for the
> take
> > > over of AMSAT, I hold or have held in high respect. That is, at least
> > until
> > > they allowed themselves to be associated with this travesty of ego. I
> now
> > > question their judgement And motivation. That?s on you. TEAM politics
> > isn?t
> > > what this is about. Character, track record, and how I have seen
> > candidates
> > > treat Me and others is how I will vote.
> > >
> > > I am highly disappointed that this has turned into a we / they
> campaign.
> > > The organization is better than that. Regardless of the outcome of this
> > > election, I judge AMSAT and it reputation will be damaged moving
> forward.
> > >
> > > EMike, AA8EM
> > >
> > > EMike McCardel, AA8EM
> > > Past Senior Editor AMSAT News Service
> > > Past AMSAT-NA VP Educational Relations
> > > Former ARRL, Ohio Section, Affiliated Club Coordinator
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Aug 19, 2020, at 1:11 PM, Michelle Thompson <
> > > mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ?
> > > > You might have missed the part where all of the information in this
> > > particular CJ request is already publicly available. It's already
> > > transparent.
> > > >
> > > > The submitted form itself is not usually published. That's the only
> > > restriction we are talking about.
> > > >
> > > > This is fundamentally different from refusing to allow Directors
> access
> > > to corporate records unless they sign NDAs, then showing up without the
> > > actual NDAs, then continuing to deny access to records and
> communications
> > > after everyone signed a blank form that purported to be a signature
> form
> > > for these alleged NDAs. Some of which have yet to be produced and you
> as
> > a
> > > member are not allowed to know about.
> > > >
> > > > Your attack is off base and inaccurate. I'm sorry you feel the way
> you
> > > do. This work means that things can get dramatically better for the
> > > organization in highly visible and measurable ways.
> > > >
> > > > -Michelle W5NYV
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 9:33 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
> > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> > > >> Just an observation. Among all of this talk, during the past BOoD
> > > election
> > > >> cycle, about Transparency, I find it amazing that the excuse of the
> > > Lawyers
> > > >> or others don't think it wise to disclose information can even be an
> > > >> argument.
> > > >>
> > > >> Michelle Wrote:
> > > >> "Unless, of course, this  Information contained in CJ requests is
> not
> > > >> usually made public. The law firm would not file it unless it was
> > > presented
> > > >> to the State Department as private and confidential. This advice was
> > > >> because virtually all requests are for proprietary programs and
> > > products.
> > > >> Sticking out in this regard, by doing something they advised
> strongly
> > > >> against, would not work to our
> > > >> advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the
> > > wrong
> > > >> hill.  as an admission that NDA's are indeed important and not just
> > > >> convenient."
> > > >>
> > > >> Is this not the very essence of Non-Disclosure Agreements? Without
> the
> > > >> transparency which seems to be lacking here this comes across as a
> > > simple
> > > >> political stunt. Enough already.
> > > >>
> > > >> I am not voting for any TEAM, I'm putting my trust in individuals
> > whom I
> > > >> respect and trust and have no agenda other than serving AMSAT to
> keep
> > > >> amateur radio in space.
> > > >>
> > > >> EMike, AA8EM
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> E. Michael McCardel, AA8EM, former KC8YLD
> > > >> Former Senior Editor for AMSAT News Service,
> > > >> Past VP Educational Relations for AMSAT-NA
> > > >> Former Ohio Section Affiliated Club Coordinator
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> > > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > > Opinions expressed
> > > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views
> > > of AMSAT-NA.
> > > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > > program!
> > > >> Subscription settings:
> > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions
> > > expressed
> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 20:44:53 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 16:44:53 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOtPNcQ00gY346GybPkdQOoYpNKnzkJjfVjd+R2EjBXGig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2VA8K-TWiq6cnOHVVNRu8bSup+yOReSHcoF-t4jWkdgQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BDB7F3B4-5DE9-483B-8EF7-4D117A8D25B7@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtPNcQ00gY346GybPkdQOoYpNKnzkJjfVjd+R2EjBXGig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c_vMrkFKBnUO9f86JqWb5q2=2Ro5BqcBEKXhMBgXoGtVw@mail.gmail.com>

Bruce,


Yet another well played detraction from my original point... That the forms
submitted to the DDTC tell a story and contain all of the details of the
claim... details, which none of us on the -bb have been able to read for
ourselves, because they have NOT been shared publicly.


AMSAT is having a difficult time navigating right now, because of your
groups smoke and mirrors.  It's the only negative traffic on the -bb.  I do
feel bad for AMSAT, but only because of that.  I think the leadership has
been doing a reasonably good job, but they don't take the time to reach out
to the public and... brag enough about their accomplishments.  Honestly, I
think PR is their only failure.  That's the only reason you and your group
can say the things you do on here, there are a lot of mis-informed
members.  Speaking of launching satellites... How many satellites have you
been involved with building and launching in the last, say, 15 years,
through any organization, while AMSAT was hard at work?


I'm sticking with the people that have produced results and I maintain that
a vote for Hammond, Paige and Stoetzer will continue to push AMSAT in the
best direction.  Whether or not a lot of people on the -bb can see it or
not, is one thing.  I sure hope they do.  Talk is cheap, it's easy for
someone to come on here and bash other peoples hard work in a couple lines
in an email, and sound honorable and noble and hide behind false-claims.
That... is unfortunate.  All i'm trying to do on this thread is ask for the
documentation that was submitted to the DDTC... that's not an abnormal or
extraordinary request, give the open source nature of it all.  Michelle did
say she would try to release the INPUT form... i'll be standing by.


Joseph Armbruster

KJ4JIO


On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 3:46 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Sorry you feel that way. The unfortunate fact is that AMSAT has already
> been judged by its outside funding organizations, and is going to have a
> hard time surmounting that without a major change in leadership. It isn't
> going to matter much for you to stick with leadership who can't can't build
> and launch enough satellites. That is what it is coming to. Fixing that is
> the only agenda.
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 11:18 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > My final word. At least some people on your agendized team, for the take
> > over of AMSAT, I hold or have held in high respect. That is, at least
> until
> > they allowed themselves to be associated with this travesty of ego. I now
> > question their judgement And motivation. That?s on you. TEAM politics
> isn?t
> > what this is about. Character, track record, and how I have seen
> candidates
> > treat Me and others is how I will vote.
> >
> > I am highly disappointed that this has turned into a we / they campaign.
> > The organization is better than that. Regardless of the outcome of this
> > election, I judge AMSAT and it reputation will be damaged moving forward.
> >
> > EMike, AA8EM
> >
> > EMike McCardel, AA8EM
> > Past Senior Editor AMSAT News Service
> > Past AMSAT-NA VP Educational Relations
> > Former ARRL, Ohio Section, Affiliated Club Coordinator
> >
> >
> > > On Aug 19, 2020, at 1:11 PM, Michelle Thompson <
> > mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > ?
> > > You might have missed the part where all of the information in this
> > particular CJ request is already publicly available. It's already
> > transparent.
> > >
> > > The submitted form itself is not usually published. That's the only
> > restriction we are talking about.
> > >
> > > This is fundamentally different from refusing to allow Directors access
> > to corporate records unless they sign NDAs, then showing up without the
> > actual NDAs, then continuing to deny access to records and communications
> > after everyone signed a blank form that purported to be a signature form
> > for these alleged NDAs. Some of which have yet to be produced and you as
> a
> > member are not allowed to know about.
> > >
> > > Your attack is off base and inaccurate. I'm sorry you feel the way you
> > do. This work means that things can get dramatically better for the
> > organization in highly visible and measurable ways.
> > >
> > > -Michelle W5NYV
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 9:33 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> > >> Just an observation. Among all of this talk, during the past BOoD
> > election
> > >> cycle, about Transparency, I find it amazing that the excuse of the
> > Lawyers
> > >> or others don't think it wise to disclose information can even be an
> > >> argument.
> > >>
> > >> Michelle Wrote:
> > >> "Unless, of course, this  Information contained in CJ requests is not
> > >> usually made public. The law firm would not file it unless it was
> > presented
> > >> to the State Department as private and confidential. This advice was
> > >> because virtually all requests are for proprietary programs and
> > products.
> > >> Sticking out in this regard, by doing something they advised strongly
> > >> against, would not work to our
> > >> advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the
> > wrong
> > >> hill.  as an admission that NDA's are indeed important and not just
> > >> convenient."
> > >>
> > >> Is this not the very essence of Non-Disclosure Agreements? Without the
> > >> transparency which seems to be lacking here this comes across as a
> > simple
> > >> political stunt. Enough already.
> > >>
> > >> I am not voting for any TEAM, I'm putting my trust in individuals
> whom I
> > >> respect and trust and have no agenda other than serving AMSAT to keep
> > >> amateur radio in space.
> > >>
> > >> EMike, AA8EM
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> E. Michael McCardel, AA8EM, former KC8YLD
> > >> Former Senior Editor for AMSAT News Service,
> > >> Past VP Educational Relations for AMSAT-NA
> > >> Former Ohio Section Affiliated Club Coordinator
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions expressed
> > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> > of AMSAT-NA.
> > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > >> Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From rhyolite at leikhim.com  Wed Aug 19 16:25:34 2020
From: rhyolite at leikhim.com (Joe Leikhim)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 12:25:34 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR
Message-ID: <fd08eebd-6979-f477-cd7a-81e022e2b311@leikhim.com>

1) - Great Work Bruce P and Michelle T!


2) - So many "Debbie Downers", no wonder AMSAT has been frozen in place for so many years:

"In the past, AMSAT volunteers have had a rude surprise when they were held personally liable for violating ITAR,*_or so I'm told_*.

Will ORI indemnify volunteers who work on projects where it may, later, be found that ITAR applies? Is that even possible for ORI to do?

If not, this makes me less interested in volunteering my skills and time to ORI projects.

--- Zach
N0ZGO"

-- 
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

JLeikhim at Leikhim.com

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM


From johnbrier at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 20:46:41 2020
From: johnbrier at gmail.com (John Brier)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 16:46:41 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards
In-Reply-To: <CANq+eyXSR3UUb+GwTqV6mcfzJT29SxtQwSfR4+yboBMfd8wZ+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2VA8K-TWiq6cnOHVVNRu8bSup+yOReSHcoF-t4jWkdgQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BDB7F3B4-5DE9-483B-8EF7-4D117A8D25B7@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtPNcQ00gY346GybPkdQOoYpNKnzkJjfVjd+R2EjBXGig@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyXSR3UUb+GwTqV6mcfzJT29SxtQwSfR4+yboBMfd8wZ+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALn0fKMUgmMZYnsLCZX5JMW9z_npWgHgaMWP6WQGp0W_KcmHfg@mail.gmail.com>

This is not a double standard or a lack of transparency. Their lawyer
requested they not release certain information and they are doing as
requested.

Open source software companies work with security embargos on
vulnerabilities, and NDAs on prerelease hardware all the time. They keep
specific things secret for as long as they have to and then open it up as
soon as they can.

Michelle even said she would double check with the lawyers to see if they
can release it. She is also looking into whether there are examples of this
form being published online by other orgs. She is not saying flat out no
because I have a right to.

73, John Brier KG4AKV


On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 16:21 David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> I'm sorry - but this thread is absolutely hilarious, and the last reply by
> Mr. Perens is the cherry on top of the stupidity cake.
>
> Michelle and her comrades have spouted all about transparency and openness
> for the past year, but when they're presented with an opportunity to be
> transparent and open with their competing organizations they play the 'Our
> Lawyers said not to share card'. When presented with their hypocrisy they
> retreat to the completely expected position of politicians everywhere by
> claiming that while AMSAT should make everything open, ORI has a right to
> keep things secret, because what they're doing is special and different.
> And then - amazingly - still have the audacity to somehow justify their
> position by claiming AMSAT isn't launching satellites? Unless I'm mistaken,
> ORI/Perens Inc. have launched precisely *ZERO* birds ever - AMSAT has put 4
> birds in orbit since I've been a member, and has provided parts and
> guidance to countless 3rd parties to launch their own birds. They have a
> realistic plan to get more birds into the orbits operators want despite not
> being part of the in-crowd... I have complete faith that they will deliver,
> because they already have. ORI has delivered jack all except promises and
> chaos.
>
> Maybe - just MAYBE - this thread lays bare what the community will be
> getting with "the slate" of candidates. A whole bunch of "Thee, but not for
> me" type of leadership, and a whole bunch of empty guarantees.
>
> -Dave, KG5CCI
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:17 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > Sorry you feel that way. The unfortunate fact is that AMSAT has already
> > been judged by its outside funding organizations, and is going to have a
> > hard time surmounting that without a major change in leadership. It isn't
> > going to matter much for you to stick with leadership who can't can't
> build
> > and launch enough satellites. That is what it is coming to. Fixing that
> is
> > the only agenda.
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 11:18 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > > My final word. At least some people on your agendized team, for the
> take
> > > over of AMSAT, I hold or have held in high respect. That is, at least
> > until
> > > they allowed themselves to be associated with this travesty of ego. I
> now
> > > question their judgement And motivation. That?s on you. TEAM politics
> > isn?t
> > > what this is about. Character, track record, and how I have seen
> > candidates
> > > treat Me and others is how I will vote.
> > >
> > > I am highly disappointed that this has turned into a we / they
> campaign.
> > > The organization is better than that. Regardless of the outcome of this
> > > election, I judge AMSAT and it reputation will be damaged moving
> forward.
> > >
> > > EMike, AA8EM
> > >
> > > EMike McCardel, AA8EM
> > > Past Senior Editor AMSAT News Service
> > > Past AMSAT-NA VP Educational Relations
> > > Former ARRL, Ohio Section, Affiliated Club Coordinator
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Aug 19, 2020, at 1:11 PM, Michelle Thompson <
> > > mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ?
> > > > You might have missed the part where all of the information in this
> > > particular CJ request is already publicly available. It's already
> > > transparent.
> > > >
> > > > The submitted form itself is not usually published. That's the only
> > > restriction we are talking about.
> > > >
> > > > This is fundamentally different from refusing to allow Directors
> access
> > > to corporate records unless they sign NDAs, then showing up without the
> > > actual NDAs, then continuing to deny access to records and
> communications
> > > after everyone signed a blank form that purported to be a signature
> form
> > > for these alleged NDAs. Some of which have yet to be produced and you
> as
> > a
> > > member are not allowed to know about.
> > > >
> > > > Your attack is off base and inaccurate. I'm sorry you feel the way
> you
> > > do. This work means that things can get dramatically better for the
> > > organization in highly visible and measurable ways.
> > > >
> > > > -Michelle W5NYV
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 9:33 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
> > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> > > >> Just an observation. Among all of this talk, during the past BOoD
> > > election
> > > >> cycle, about Transparency, I find it amazing that the excuse of the
> > > Lawyers
> > > >> or others don't think it wise to disclose information can even be an
> > > >> argument.
> > > >>
> > > >> Michelle Wrote:
> > > >> "Unless, of course, this  Information contained in CJ requests is
> not
> > > >> usually made public. The law firm would not file it unless it was
> > > presented
> > > >> to the State Department as private and confidential. This advice was
> > > >> because virtually all requests are for proprietary programs and
> > > products.
> > > >> Sticking out in this regard, by doing something they advised
> strongly
> > > >> against, would not work to our
> > > >> advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the
> > > wrong
> > > >> hill.  as an admission that NDA's are indeed important and not just
> > > >> convenient."
> > > >>
> > > >> Is this not the very essence of Non-Disclosure Agreements? Without
> the
> > > >> transparency which seems to be lacking here this comes across as a
> > > simple
> > > >> political stunt. Enough already.
> > > >>
> > > >> I am not voting for any TEAM, I'm putting my trust in individuals
> > whom I
> > > >> respect and trust and have no agenda other than serving AMSAT to
> keep
> > > >> amateur radio in space.
> > > >>
> > > >> EMike, AA8EM
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> E. Michael McCardel, AA8EM, former KC8YLD
> > > >> Former Senior Editor for AMSAT News Service,
> > > >> Past VP Educational Relations for AMSAT-NA
> > > >> Former Ohio Section Affiliated Club Coordinator
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> > > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > > Opinions expressed
> > > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views
> > > of AMSAT-NA.
> > > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > > program!
> > > >> Subscription settings:
> > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions
> > > expressed
> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 19:38:59 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 15:38:59 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2XxkS5ZbpmRRr7ZderchgEGM8oiY-CtcVWbEpYybqSJCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_ov12dpaeP3QdTPZ9_QDBbNMdncOVEC_APvSoMfzp17g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XJXBNXj9Wwy_B7QfsKZ0-MkHHzxhBx=OckUbMM_QZu2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-VK-+XATBQ-EexkfnQLm81RxhQkd_AwYCudiMHjT1gCA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2URcX=hdNmtFfb55J7GrsqLDkwzKp1HM=bXWm3+7vYvAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_jsYk+jeD7Ps3hQWhwH2eRpASGCzF9S2EqR7RH4yVnzA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2WOWCbnVYhG4A_vaan-MPhGqp9bQpVsjG5H2hHxCPoLqQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_=H6nTEGpAVwCzmO5u7kCexxTtGnPh6zT1wMbn8k08ZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XfdLSUwmxNfaVe5zkKS_WrvVHzUcBRuokD8jz8u=R9iw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c9_8tXut-PHrWCDZo6rbJAMvKFrFpt=wr2Xu81FSvj_7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XxkS5ZbpmRRr7ZderchgEGM8oiY-CtcVWbEpYybqSJCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c-e4ZwEMXA+mcqU=aT4bFc8U6RXZPtFjigB8LDckRHsWg@mail.gmail.com>

Michelle,


Ok, so just everyone on the BB is entirely clear about what is going on
here.


Your team submitted forms to the DDTC, apparently on February 20, 2020.
This form that was submitted to the DDTC with the request, has NOT BEEN
MADE PUBLIC.  As a result, we can not read it.  This document, that we can
not read, has all the verbiage that matters and is the document that the
DDTC would have responded to directly.


Previously, you have referenced designs that are publicly available, but we
have no way of knowing if the form above actually referenced those designs
or not.  Again, we (the community) have absolutely no way of knowing or
verifying this information, because we can not read the submission.


You publicly announced on the -bb that "Open Source Satellite Work
Determined to be Free of ITAR" and publicly were willing to share the DDTC
response to the forms submitted above, namely the commodity jurisdiction
determination.  But, we (the community) have no clue what this
determination is actually referring to, because we can not read what was
being adjudicated.


To summarize:


INPUT (FORM) TO DDTC  ===>  time delay from DDTC  ===>  OUTPUT FROM DDTC
(CJ determination letter).


- We have not been able to see the INPUT

- We have been provided with the OUTPUT

   * and the OUTPUT contains little to no actual information in it...


I think this is clear enough for everyone on the -bb to comprehend.  So, in
the immortal words of Johnny 5 from the movie Short Circuit "Need INPUT"!


Joseph Armbruster

KJ4JIO

On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 3:10 PM Michelle Thompson <
mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:

> None of what you have written here makes sense.
>
> Everything that the US State Department approved for this open source
> amateur radio satellite service CJ Request is already published and
> available for inspection. All of the designs and policies are already
> disclosed to the general public, free of charge. What you keep demanding
> has already been done.
>
> If you won't show your DS-4076 submission packets, then you do not have an
> argument. You have not provided any proof that publishing the work product
> of lawyers without their consent is a positive thing to do. It's just not
> done and it is not material to desperately needed forward progress.
>
> You can keep arguing with AMSAT's *own* consultant's opinions and advice,
> the advice of renowned ITAR/EAR experts hired on recommendation of the EFF,
> and the US State Department, the Department of Defense, and Commerce BIS,
> but honestly that is not the best path forward to create a safe and sane
> volunteer situation for AMSAT.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 11:46 AM Joseph Armbruster <
> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Michelle,
>>
>>
>> There's a major, major difference between what you are trying to
>> accomplish from an 'open and transparency' perspective and what your
>> average commercial business would do (or AMSAT would likely do, with NDAs
>> in place...)
>>
>>
>> There's no need for me to publish any of my companies info, because this
>> is not really about my business.  I did not release an email to the -bb
>> with the title "Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR".
>> That's quite a claim and mama didn't raise no fool here and I know the
>> devil's always in the details with these kinds of things.  And we haven't
>> been provided with any of the details yet, only claims of success!  I know,
>> with absolute certainty, that you can have an "open source design",
>> alllllll you want, composed of specific hardware components that may only
>> be available to US Persons, you can publish it here, there and everywhere!
>> However, if you attempted to put the hardware in a box and ship it outside
>> the US for integration, without an export permit, you can get into major
>> trouble.  Private companies that develop products and/or offer services for
>> others typically work under NDAs and they have unique IP interests
>> (designs, business relationships, etc...) that they wish to protect/keep
>> secret.  If that kind of information is included in the CJ request, it's up
>> to the submitter to serve their agreements and protect the information
>> (if-so-agreed-upon).
>>
>>
>> From what i've observed, what you're trying to do is the polar opposite.
>> It's suppose to be about open source, becoming free of ITAR, serving the
>> amateur radio community, making all the designs public and free of IP
>> constraints and most importantly, being transparent about the process (....
>> and you all seem to use the noble term "Transparency", quite a bit... ref
>> previous -bb emails...).  If all the designs are public and there's no IP
>> to protect, why would the CJ request need to be kept private?  The request
>> that was submitted and adjudicated, contained specific words, likely
>> referenced specific designs, that may or may not have referenced any of the
>> designs that you are referring to.  It's impossible for any of us to make
>> any sense of your release, or substantiate Any of the claims, without it.
>> This is the difference in my opinion.  You're obviously not going to find
>> any other companies submissions around, because they are by-nature, focused
>> on secrecy and protecting IP, not doing charitable work.  Yours on the
>> other hand, should be about transparency to the open source / amateur
>> community, not about secrecy and protecting whatever it is...
>>
>>
>> And, you may say that what i'm asking for is something the "law firm
>> specifically advised against doing"... but we all know that's just
>> silly...  Anyone here on the-bb can look up the exact form and see what
>> data is requested on it.  There is nothing that any open source guru
>> wouldn't be more than willing to disclose publicly.
>>
>>
>> That's my 10 cents,
>>
>> Joseph Armbruster
>>
>> KJ4JIO
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 1:03 PM Michelle Thompson <
>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes. Again, all the information that went into the DS-4076 is already
>>> publicly available (designs and policies). You can find all the design
>>> information in our repositories and the policies on our website.
>>>
>>> You can see a significant part of the described transmitter design for
>>> yourself in the review workshop video I posted about a week ago here on
>>> -BB.
>>>
>>> The posting of the submitted DS-4076 seems to be so rare that I cannot
>>> find an example of one shared on the web. You are asking for something that
>>> the law firm specifically advised against doing. Again, I have said I would
>>> raise the issue next time I meet with them.
>>>
>>> If you can show me your company's DS-4076 postings, then maybe that
>>> would help support your point of view. I couldn't find them on the web. I'd
>>> appreciate the name of the consulting firm or law firm that your company
>>> used for the CJ Requests so I can call them about their approach to
>>> releasing their work products. This is an area I'm very interested in for a
>>> variety of reasons, not just for amateur radio. I'm in strong favor of
>>> publishing everything possible, but all of us need to honor legitimate or
>>> required limitations, like the ones we are discussing here.
>>>
>>> If it's routine to post DS-4076 submissions, and if you somehow can't
>>> use a final determination without them, then I should be seeing a lot more
>>> published DS-4076s than final determination letters. That doesn't appear to
>>> be the case at all from looking at the list of determinations made over the
>>> past couple of years, tracking down ones that published their final
>>> determination letters, and looking for DS-4076s.
>>>
>>> All the information and policies involved in this particular request are
>>> already public. The existence of the determination can be independently
>>> verified. Your questions have all been answered in the affirmative.
>>>
>>> AMSAT's ITAR/EAR consulting firm was notified of this CJ Request
>>> process, application, and the final determination. The response has been
>>> very positive and supportive throughout. There are no roadblocks to using
>>> this final determination to establish a safe and sane open source policy
>>> for AMSAT from the consulting firm that AMSAT already uses. The proposal
>>> and retainer fee from this consulting firm for this policy work is sitting
>>> on the President's desk. I've done all the work necessary to make it easy
>>> and effective. It's a pleasure to be able to do so, and I look forward to a
>>> renaissance in the technical volunteer corps.
>>>
>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 8:16 AM Joseph Armbruster <
>>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Michelle,
>>>>
>>>> The determination letter itself needs to be interpreted in the correct
>>>> context.  Noone on the -bb can make any sense of that determination letter
>>>> right now, without seeing a copy of what was submitted on the form
>>>> DS-4076.  I can not find this posted publicly anywhere, did I miss it?
>>>>
>>>> Is the submitted form DS-4076 (and supplemental materials if-any),
>>>> posted publicly?
>>>>
>>>> If-not, this whole announcement is basically a shoulder shrug for me.
>>>> It Sounds great... but, we have no evidence that the determination letter
>>>> actually means anything of value.
>>>>
>>>> On question 2, it is good to know there was no back and forth 'juicy'
>>>> communication.  For the record, it is not uncommon to have a back-and-forth
>>>> with them.  They typically ask a lot of questions and dig into the
>>>> requests...  Knowing this fact, will make it that much easier for all
>>>> of us on the -bb to make sense of your announcement, once we have all the
>>>> information.... right now, we do Not have all the required information.
>>>>
>>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>>> KJ4JIO
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 10:48 AM Michelle Thompson <
>>>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The final determination letter is the only communication we received.
>>>>>
>>>>> Public link to the letter is in the announcement.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was not contacted during the 7 months of review by the government.
>>>>> Neither were the lawyers.
>>>>>
>>>>> I kept up with the request as it worked its way through DHS, DOD, and
>>>>> BIS by using the DDTC request status server.
>>>>>
>>>>> BIS was necessary because we included encryption. There was a lengthy
>>>>> discussion on whether or not to include encryption.
>>>>>
>>>>> Those of you that know the regulations know we are allowed to use
>>>>> encryption. However, this complicates the request in several ways. It
>>>>> requires an entire additional department to review, and there are a lot of
>>>>> potential pitfalls here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not including encryption would make it faster and easier to approve,
>>>>> but would make the result incomplete.
>>>>>
>>>>> We decided to include encryption, trigger the extra scrutiny, and we
>>>>> worked through all the language. If we were going to run the marathon then
>>>>> we needed to run the entire marathon.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't believe there is usually a lot of correspondence between
>>>>> requestor and DDTC at all. I was told to be available for questions (from
>>>>> the reviewer) but that contact would be very highly unlikely.
>>>>>
>>>>> Making the request is not a negotiation or collaboration. There is no
>>>>> juicy trove of emails. The silence from the government was absolute.
>>>>>
>>>>> We had to have the best possible information and case upon submission,
>>>>> and be prepared for any outcome.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 07:09 Joseph Armbruster <
>>>>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Michelle,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Public link to a copy of the submitted form DS-4076 (and supplemental
>>>>>> materials if-any)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Public link to a copy of all communications with the DDTC?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>>>>> KJ4JIO
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 10:02 AM Michelle Thompson <
>>>>>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Again, all information used in the request is already public.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Again, the policies used to make the succesful request are also
>>>>>>> already public and in use.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are spilling a lot of ink  asking for things to be shared that
>>>>>>> have already been shared. I've already said I will ask the firm what can be
>>>>>>> released.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The final determination is of enormous benefit to AMSAT and many
>>>>>>> other organizations. The request was deliberately designed that way, and it
>>>>>>> worked.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Time to put it to work for AMSAT.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And celebrate! :+)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 06:24 Joseph Armbruster <
>>>>>>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michelle,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Standby.  The community has absolutely no reason, whatsoever to
>>>>>>>> trust any guidelines your group is publishing, unless the community is
>>>>>>>> given direct insight into the request itself and all direct communications
>>>>>>>> with the DDTC, so that the context and realities of the determination can
>>>>>>>> be validated.  What i'm asking for here is not inappropriate, given the
>>>>>>>> history, context or claims being made.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This, "Just trust what we say we did", is Not Transparent and does
>>>>>>>> not instill confidence in anyone about what is going on.  I do, on the
>>>>>>>> other hand, have Hope, that the claims being made are supported.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I will say though, I actually laughed out loud when I read
>>>>>>>> "Information contained in CJ requests is not usually made public. The law
>>>>>>>> firm would not file it unless it was presented to the State Department as
>>>>>>>> private and confidential."  Because, C'mon.. noone in their right
>>>>>>>> mind is going to read that and say "oh yeah!" and agree that they should
>>>>>>>> just turn their brains off to the actual request.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With respects to the first sentence, the reality is that most
>>>>>>>> companies dealing with the DDTC are exporting defense articles and
>>>>>>>> services.  As a result, there's usually a contractual need (and
>>>>>>>> could be a real life/death reason) to keep the communications with the
>>>>>>>> DDTC, confidential.  Because the intent here is not to manufacture/export
>>>>>>>> defense articles or services, there should be no harm in the request being
>>>>>>>> made public.  I mean, I believe everyone on the -bb would unanimously Want
>>>>>>>> to see it.   On the second sentence, I have an attorney on retainer for my
>>>>>>>> business and I could easily go to them and say "All communications between
>>>>>>>> parties A and B for this effort will be placed into the public domain, in
>>>>>>>> support of an outreach effort going on with this charity, so treat it that
>>>>>>>> way".  And, that's what would happen, because, that's what I would be
>>>>>>>> paying them to do.  In addition, I am free to take my legal business
>>>>>>>> elsewhere if-need-be and I do not have to beg, plead, or pay for any
>>>>>>>> release.  Sometimes, having a second set of legal eyes on legal work
>>>>>>>> products is a good thing.  I would not have the firm file on my behalf with
>>>>>>>> the DDTC, because there's really no need.  That's giving them more power
>>>>>>>> and responsibility in the process than they actually need.  I'd use them
>>>>>>>> more as support personnel / consultants on an as-needed basis, vs the
>>>>>>>> directors of the effort that you now have to beg for a release (of your own
>>>>>>>> information...)  This sounds like a disaster.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The contents of a CJ request is private and confidential if and
>>>>>>>> only if the submitting party treats it that way.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> KJ4JIO
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 11:23 PM Michelle Thompson <
>>>>>>>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, Joseph, it?s amazing news and It is just as good as
>>>>>>>>> advertised.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The result is of enormous and direct benefit to AMSAT.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> AMSAT was asked to join the request. I sent a paper letter, wrote
>>>>>>>>> the board, brought it up during the 2019 annual board meeting, and
>>>>>>>>> published an open letter. I did all I could to enable the full
>>>>>>>>> participation of the one organization that stands to benefit the most from
>>>>>>>>> this determination.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But, the men you voted for did not respond, at all.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It took a year of very hard work. It?s a gift to the community. It
>>>>>>>>> can restore free and open international collaboration.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That?s it. There?s no tricks or gotchas. It is what it is claimed
>>>>>>>>> to be.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would have done the same work and raised the same money if AMSAT
>>>>>>>>> had wanted their name on it. I would be just as proud and would be saying
>>>>>>>>> the same things. When work needs to be done, it needs to be done.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Information contained in CJ requests is not usually made public.
>>>>>>>>> The law firm would not file it unless it was presented to the State
>>>>>>>>> Department as private and confidential. This advice was because virtually
>>>>>>>>> all requests are for proprietary programs and products. Sticking out in
>>>>>>>>> this regard, by doing something they advised strongly against, would not
>>>>>>>>> work to our advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on
>>>>>>>>> the wrong hill.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Additionally, the law firm does not want their work products or
>>>>>>>>> email correspondence published. We will honor that. We want to work with
>>>>>>>>> them again. They were fantastic, recommended by EFF, and 100% supportive of
>>>>>>>>> open source.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Fortunately, *everything* that went into the request is already
>>>>>>>>> public information. All our designs, details, policies, procedures,
>>>>>>>>> definitions, diagrams, and code are available to the general public free of
>>>>>>>>> charge, today. That?s the primary reason it succeeded. We already follow
>>>>>>>>> the law with respect to public domain carve outs and publishing
>>>>>>>>> requirements. The final determination shows the value of this approach.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> AMSAT can do this too. There is literally no reason not to. This
>>>>>>>>> is the game changer people have been waiting for.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *All* of what *anyone* will need to know to take full advantage
>>>>>>>>> will be published in a set of implementation guidelines.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is the single best risk reduction for AMSAT volunteers that
>>>>>>>>> exists in US law. It is the gold standard. We have access as a community to
>>>>>>>>> this result because a team of very committed and competent people made it
>>>>>>>>> happen and are now going to make it easy to use.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Want to contribute to the guidelines? Participants are welcome.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 18:01 Joseph Armbruster <
>>>>>>>>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Michelle,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is quite interesting, indeed!  However, from your press
>>>>>>>>>> release, I really have no clue what "Information and Software for a Digital
>>>>>>>>>> Microwave Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur
>>>>>>>>>> Radio Use", means (in terms of the legalese, definitions and proper nouns
>>>>>>>>>> used, etc...).  Depending on how they were defined, the determination may
>>>>>>>>>> or may not be directly relevant to AMSAT or anyone else for that matter...
>>>>>>>>>> And just to be clear, i'm not trying to be a spoiler here or anything, this
>>>>>>>>>> could be really amazing news, or nothing more than a null determination
>>>>>>>>>> that sounds great in a headline but really means nothing.  I think Everyone
>>>>>>>>>> would welcome relaxed ITAR constraints on AMSAT engineers, in any
>>>>>>>>>> way, shape or form...  That being said, this begs the question, is the Form
>>>>>>>>>> DS-4076 and all supplemental materials, along with all written
>>>>>>>>>> communications with the DOS/DDTC concerning this matter, being made
>>>>>>>>>> public?  I think this would be absolutely necessary for anyone on the list
>>>>>>>>>> to get excited about this, in any way, shape or form.  I looked on the ORI
>>>>>>>>>> website and couldn't find anything around Feb 2020 (per the date the
>>>>>>>>>> indicated submission was made per the AUG11 reply from the DDTC).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Although, I am not a particular fan of ORI so-far, which is why I
>>>>>>>>>> voted for Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer....
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I do commend any individual or entity that is able and willing to
>>>>>>>>>> deal with the DOS or DDTC.  It takes a lot of time and $.  At one point, my
>>>>>>>>>> business helped develop parts of a research UAV for a foreign military on a
>>>>>>>>>> high-altitude balloon, which included a wireless network.  One export
>>>>>>>>>> permit took over six months, with back-and-forths with questions and
>>>>>>>>>> clarifications, questions and clarifications, more questions and
>>>>>>>>>> clarifications... on and on and on...  Just because they say you can
>>>>>>>>>> produce Information and Software for a widget (however those are defined),
>>>>>>>>>> it doesn't necessarily mean you can actually get a permit to ship the
>>>>>>>>>> hardware with the software on it, anywhere.  Because the 'Information and
>>>>>>>>>> Software' (however defined), may not govern the hardware used.  In my case,
>>>>>>>>>> there were special accelerometers and gyros, that you don't purchase
>>>>>>>>>> without providing a lot of information.  So, no matter what software was
>>>>>>>>>> written to drive them, if you shipped them out of the country without a
>>>>>>>>>> permit, look out!  I remember finally getting my first export permit and
>>>>>>>>>> shipping label and putting it on the box and sending some hardware out.  It
>>>>>>>>>> was just a sticky label that went on a box, but wow, it wasn't easy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It sure would be nice if ITAR was less of an issue but the
>>>>>>>>>> devil's really in the details here...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>>>>>>>>> KJ4JIO
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 12:29 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>>>>>>>>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://openresearch.institute/2020/08/18/cj-determination-open-source-satellite-work-is-free-of-itar/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The United States Department of State has ruled favorably on
>>>>>>>>>>> Open Research
>>>>>>>>>>> Institute's commodity jurisdiction request, finding that
>>>>>>>>>>> specified
>>>>>>>>>>> ?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave Broadband
>>>>>>>>>>> Communications
>>>>>>>>>>> System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio Use? is
>>>>>>>>>>> definitely not
>>>>>>>>>>> subject to State Department jurisdiction under ITAR, the
>>>>>>>>>>> International
>>>>>>>>>>> Traffic in Arms Regulations. This is an important step toward
>>>>>>>>>>> reducing the
>>>>>>>>>>> burden of regulations restricting international cooperation on
>>>>>>>>>>> amateur
>>>>>>>>>>> satellite projects, which have impeded engineering work by
>>>>>>>>>>> amateurs in the
>>>>>>>>>>> United States for decades.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Export regulations divide both technical information and actual
>>>>>>>>>>> hardware
>>>>>>>>>>> into three categories. The most heavily restricted technologies
>>>>>>>>>>> fall under
>>>>>>>>>>> ITAR, which is administered by the State Department.
>>>>>>>>>>> Technologies subject
>>>>>>>>>>> to more routine restrictions fall under EAR, the Export
>>>>>>>>>>> Administration
>>>>>>>>>>> Regulations, administered by the Department of Commerce.
>>>>>>>>>>> Technologies that
>>>>>>>>>>> are not subject to either set of regulations are not restricted
>>>>>>>>>>> for export.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 20 February 2020, Open Research Institute (ORI) filed a
>>>>>>>>>>> Commodity
>>>>>>>>>>> Jurisdiction (CJ) Request with the US State Department, seeking
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> establish that key technologies for amateur radio are not
>>>>>>>>>>> subject to State
>>>>>>>>>>> Department jurisdiction. ?Information and Software for a Digital
>>>>>>>>>>> Microwave
>>>>>>>>>>> Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial
>>>>>>>>>>> Amateur Radio
>>>>>>>>>>> Use? was assigned the case number CJ0003120. On 11 August 2020,
>>>>>>>>>>> the case
>>>>>>>>>>> received a successful final determination: the technology is not
>>>>>>>>>>> subject to
>>>>>>>>>>> State Department jurisdiction. This is the best possible outcome
>>>>>>>>>>> of a CJ
>>>>>>>>>>> request.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Final Determination letter can be found at
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/08/CJ-0003120-Final-Determination-Letter.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Under this determination, the technologies are subject to the
>>>>>>>>>>> EAR. The next
>>>>>>>>>>> step is to submit a classification request to the Commerce
>>>>>>>>>>> Department. ORI
>>>>>>>>>>> anticipates that the Commerce Department will find that these
>>>>>>>>>>> technologies
>>>>>>>>>>> are unrestricted under the carve-out for open source in the EAR.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Open Research Institute (ORI) is a non-profit research and
>>>>>>>>>>> development
>>>>>>>>>>> organization which provides all of its work to the general
>>>>>>>>>>> public under the
>>>>>>>>>>> principles of Open Source and Open Access to Research.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This work was accomplished by a team of dedicated and competent
>>>>>>>>>>> open source
>>>>>>>>>>> volunteers. The effort was initiated by Bruce Perens K6BP and
>>>>>>>>>>> lead by
>>>>>>>>>>> Michelle Thompson W5NYV.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Open Research Institute developed the ideas behind the Commodity
>>>>>>>>>>> Jurisdiction request, hired Thomsen and Burke LLP (
>>>>>>>>>>> https://t-b.com/) for
>>>>>>>>>>> expert legal advice, organized the revisions of the document,
>>>>>>>>>>> and invited
>>>>>>>>>>> organizations and individuals with amateur satellite service
>>>>>>>>>>> interests to
>>>>>>>>>>> join or support the request.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ORI thanks Libre Space Foundation and Dr. Daniel Estevez for
>>>>>>>>>>> providing
>>>>>>>>>>> their subject matter expertise and written testimony, and JAMSAT
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> helpful encouragement and support.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The legal costs were fully reimbursed with a generous grant from
>>>>>>>>>>> Amateur
>>>>>>>>>>> Radio Digital Communications (ARDC). See
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ampr.org/grants/grant-open-research-institute/.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ARDC and ORI share a vision of clearly establishing open source
>>>>>>>>>>> as the best
>>>>>>>>>>> and safest way to accomplish technical volunteer work in amateur
>>>>>>>>>>> radio.
>>>>>>>>>>> This final determination letter provides solid support for that
>>>>>>>>>>> vision. The
>>>>>>>>>>> determination enables the development of implementation
>>>>>>>>>>> guidelines that
>>>>>>>>>>> will allow free international collaboration.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This clears the path for a number of interesting projects
>>>>>>>>>>> facilitating new
>>>>>>>>>>> methods for terrestrial and satellite communications, opening
>>>>>>>>>>> the door to
>>>>>>>>>>> robust global digital amateur communications.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Questions and inquiries to ori at openresearch.institute
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>>>>>>>>>> available
>>>>>>>>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
>>>>>>>>>>> membership. Opinions expressed
>>>>>>>>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>>>>>>>>>> views of AMSAT-NA.
>>>>>>>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
>>>>>>>>>>> satellite program!
>>>>>>>>>>> Subscription settings:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 20:23:44 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 16:23:44 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2XvfBfBGrFy_bsq1PKN0Qp45d2052s+=EZk65D5BJTg7Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_ov12dpaeP3QdTPZ9_QDBbNMdncOVEC_APvSoMfzp17g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XJXBNXj9Wwy_B7QfsKZ0-MkHHzxhBx=OckUbMM_QZu2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-VK-+XATBQ-EexkfnQLm81RxhQkd_AwYCudiMHjT1gCA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2URcX=hdNmtFfb55J7GrsqLDkwzKp1HM=bXWm3+7vYvAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_jsYk+jeD7Ps3hQWhwH2eRpASGCzF9S2EqR7RH4yVnzA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2WOWCbnVYhG4A_vaan-MPhGqp9bQpVsjG5H2hHxCPoLqQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_=H6nTEGpAVwCzmO5u7kCexxTtGnPh6zT1wMbn8k08ZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XfdLSUwmxNfaVe5zkKS_WrvVHzUcBRuokD8jz8u=R9iw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c9_8tXut-PHrWCDZo6rbJAMvKFrFpt=wr2Xu81FSvj_7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XxkS5ZbpmRRr7ZderchgEGM8oiY-CtcVWbEpYybqSJCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-e4ZwEMXA+mcqU=aT4bFc8U6RXZPtFjigB8LDckRHsWg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XvfBfBGrFy_bsq1PKN0Qp45d2052s+=EZk65D5BJTg7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c-oM9GgPbg_WjiSEsni5rL6SX2Mezymw2eVXBx1sVrVTw@mail.gmail.com>

Michelle,

There's nothing unique in this case about releasing it.  In fact, I would
argue that it should have been provided to the AMSAT -bb community, back in
February, BEFORE being submitted to the DDTC, so that we could know what
was being sent in, the intent and what was coming down the pipe...  I mean,
that would have been the most transparent way to handle this...

And now, for some reason, you have to seek permission from a third party,
to release a DDTC form submission that you should have full right, title
and interest to...?

You keep saying "Thank you to those that gave me your support in order to
be able to accomplish this." and patting yourself on the back.... Do people
actually buy into this stuff?!  I'm too pragmattic for that, I need
evidence and NONE has been provided.  Noone on the -bb right now, has any
way of  knowing if Anything was actually accomplished here.

I will standby for your public release of the form, so all of us on the -bb
can learn about what we are actually celebrating and if there is even a
reason to be celebrating.

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO



On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 3:59 PM Michelle Thompson <
mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, those are the referenced designs.
>
> Yes, the input is available for public inspection, as per ITAR 120.11.
> It's all our designs and policies. Yes, you can read them all without
> impediment.
>
> There are no other designs or policies, other than what we've published.
>
> The output is available for public inspection, as a final determination
> letter.
>
> Just like at your own company, the specific work product of the law firm
> hired to assist is confidential. This is ordinary and customary. It's
> neither a red flag nor unusual in any way. Just like at your own company,
> the final determination letter is the crucial part. It's what you get and
> what you use.
>
> You have provided no evidence that the submission packet is ever published
> by anyone. Go argue with the State Department about this, not me.
>
> However, even though it would be unique, I've said I would try to get this
> released. I'll write an article after the meeting.
>
> There's a bright future ahead of us. It's a real honor to be able to help
> here.
>
> Thank you to those that gave me your support in order to be able to
> accomplish this. It will make a large positive difference.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 12:36 PM Joseph Armbruster <
> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Michelle,
>>
>>
>> Ok, so just everyone on the BB is entirely clear about what is going on
>> here.
>>
>>
>> Your team submitted forms to the DDTC, apparently on February 20, 2020.
>> This form that was submitted to the DDTC with the request, has NOT BEEN
>> MADE PUBLIC.  As a result, we can not read it.  This document, that we can
>> not read, has all the verbiage that matters and is the document that the
>> DDTC would have responded to directly.
>>
>>
>> Previously, you have referenced designs that are publicly available, but
>> we have no way of knowing if the form above actually referenced those
>> designs or not.  Again, we (the community) have absolutely no way of
>> knowing or verifying this information, because we can not read the
>> submission.
>>
>>
>> You publicly announced on the -bb that "Open Source Satellite Work
>> Determined to be Free of ITAR" and publicly were willing to share the DDTC
>> response to the forms submitted above, namely the commodity jurisdiction
>> determination.  But, we (the community) have no clue what this
>> determination is actually referring to, because we can not read what was
>> being adjudicated.
>>
>>
>> To summarize:
>>
>>
>> INPUT (FORM) TO DDTC  ===>  time delay from DDTC  ===>  OUTPUT FROM DDTC
>> (CJ determination letter).
>>
>>
>> - We have not been able to see the INPUT
>>
>> - We have been provided with the OUTPUT
>>
>>    * and the OUTPUT contains little to no actual information in it...
>>
>>
>> I think this is clear enough for everyone on the -bb to comprehend.  So,
>> in the immortal words of Johnny 5 from the movie Short Circuit "Need INPUT"!
>>
>>
>> Joseph Armbruster
>>
>> KJ4JIO
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 3:10 PM Michelle Thompson <
>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> None of what you have written here makes sense.
>>>
>>> Everything that the US State Department approved for this open source
>>> amateur radio satellite service CJ Request is already published and
>>> available for inspection. All of the designs and policies are already
>>> disclosed to the general public, free of charge. What you keep demanding
>>> has already been done.
>>>
>>> If you won't show your DS-4076 submission packets, then you do not have
>>> an argument. You have not provided any proof that publishing the work
>>> product of lawyers without their consent is a positive thing to do. It's
>>> just not done and it is not material to desperately needed forward
>>> progress.
>>>
>>> You can keep arguing with AMSAT's *own* consultant's opinions and
>>> advice, the advice of renowned ITAR/EAR experts hired on recommendation of
>>> the EFF, and the US State Department, the Department of Defense, and
>>> Commerce BIS, but honestly that is not the best path forward to create a
>>> safe and sane volunteer situation for AMSAT.
>>>
>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 11:46 AM Joseph Armbruster <
>>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Michelle,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There's a major, major difference between what you are trying to
>>>> accomplish from an 'open and transparency' perspective and what your
>>>> average commercial business would do (or AMSAT would likely do, with NDAs
>>>> in place...)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There's no need for me to publish any of my companies info, because
>>>> this is not really about my business.  I did not release an email to the
>>>> -bb with the title "Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
>>>> ITAR".  That's quite a claim and mama didn't raise no fool here and I know
>>>> the devil's always in the details with these kinds of things.  And we
>>>> haven't been provided with any of the details yet, only claims of success!
>>>> I know, with absolute certainty, that you can have an "open source design",
>>>> alllllll you want, composed of specific hardware components that may only
>>>> be available to US Persons, you can publish it here, there and everywhere!
>>>> However, if you attempted to put the hardware in a box and ship it outside
>>>> the US for integration, without an export permit, you can get into major
>>>> trouble.  Private companies that develop products and/or offer services for
>>>> others typically work under NDAs and they have unique IP interests
>>>> (designs, business relationships, etc...) that they wish to protect/keep
>>>> secret.  If that kind of information is included in the CJ request, it's up
>>>> to the submitter to serve their agreements and protect the information
>>>> (if-so-agreed-upon).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From what i've observed, what you're trying to do is the polar
>>>> opposite.  It's suppose to be about open source, becoming free of ITAR,
>>>> serving the amateur radio community, making all the designs public and free
>>>> of IP constraints and most importantly, being transparent about the process
>>>> (.... and you all seem to use the noble term "Transparency", quite a bit...
>>>> ref previous -bb emails...).  If all the designs are public and there's no
>>>> IP to protect, why would the CJ request need to be kept private?  The
>>>> request that was submitted and adjudicated, contained specific words,
>>>> likely referenced specific designs, that may or may not have referenced any
>>>> of the designs that you are referring to.  It's impossible for any of us to
>>>> make any sense of your release, or substantiate Any of the claims, without
>>>> it.  This is the difference in my opinion.  You're obviously not going to
>>>> find any other companies submissions around, because they are by-nature,
>>>> focused on secrecy and protecting IP, not doing charitable work.  Yours on
>>>> the other hand, should be about transparency to the open source / amateur
>>>> community, not about secrecy and protecting whatever it is...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And, you may say that what i'm asking for is something the "law firm
>>>> specifically advised against doing"... but we all know that's just
>>>> silly...  Anyone here on the-bb can look up the exact form and see what
>>>> data is requested on it.  There is nothing that any open source guru
>>>> wouldn't be more than willing to disclose publicly.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's my 10 cents,
>>>>
>>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>>>
>>>> KJ4JIO
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 1:03 PM Michelle Thompson <
>>>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes. Again, all the information that went into the DS-4076 is already
>>>>> publicly available (designs and policies). You can find all the design
>>>>> information in our repositories and the policies on our website.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can see a significant part of the described transmitter design for
>>>>> yourself in the review workshop video I posted about a week ago here on
>>>>> -BB.
>>>>>
>>>>> The posting of the submitted DS-4076 seems to be so rare that I cannot
>>>>> find an example of one shared on the web. You are asking for something that
>>>>> the law firm specifically advised against doing. Again, I have said I would
>>>>> raise the issue next time I meet with them.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you can show me your company's DS-4076 postings, then maybe that
>>>>> would help support your point of view. I couldn't find them on the web. I'd
>>>>> appreciate the name of the consulting firm or law firm that your company
>>>>> used for the CJ Requests so I can call them about their approach to
>>>>> releasing their work products. This is an area I'm very interested in for a
>>>>> variety of reasons, not just for amateur radio. I'm in strong favor of
>>>>> publishing everything possible, but all of us need to honor legitimate or
>>>>> required limitations, like the ones we are discussing here.
>>>>>
>>>>> If it's routine to post DS-4076 submissions, and if you somehow can't
>>>>> use a final determination without them, then I should be seeing a lot more
>>>>> published DS-4076s than final determination letters. That doesn't appear to
>>>>> be the case at all from looking at the list of determinations made over the
>>>>> past couple of years, tracking down ones that published their final
>>>>> determination letters, and looking for DS-4076s.
>>>>>
>>>>> All the information and policies involved in this particular request
>>>>> are already public. The existence of the determination can be independently
>>>>> verified. Your questions have all been answered in the affirmative.
>>>>>
>>>>> AMSAT's ITAR/EAR consulting firm was notified of this CJ Request
>>>>> process, application, and the final determination. The response has been
>>>>> very positive and supportive throughout. There are no roadblocks to using
>>>>> this final determination to establish a safe and sane open source policy
>>>>> for AMSAT from the consulting firm that AMSAT already uses. The proposal
>>>>> and retainer fee from this consulting firm for this policy work is sitting
>>>>> on the President's desk. I've done all the work necessary to make it easy
>>>>> and effective. It's a pleasure to be able to do so, and I look forward to a
>>>>> renaissance in the technical volunteer corps.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 8:16 AM Joseph Armbruster <
>>>>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Michelle,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The determination letter itself needs to be interpreted in the
>>>>>> correct context.  Noone on the -bb can make any sense of that determination
>>>>>> letter right now, without seeing a copy of what was submitted on the form
>>>>>> DS-4076.  I can not find this posted publicly anywhere, did I miss it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is the submitted form DS-4076 (and supplemental materials if-any),
>>>>>> posted publicly?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If-not, this whole announcement is basically a shoulder shrug for
>>>>>> me.  It Sounds great... but, we have no evidence that the determination
>>>>>> letter actually means anything of value.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On question 2, it is good to know there was no back and forth 'juicy'
>>>>>> communication.  For the record, it is not uncommon to have a back-and-forth
>>>>>> with them.  They typically ask a lot of questions and dig into the
>>>>>> requests...  Knowing this fact, will make it that much easier for
>>>>>> all of us on the -bb to make sense of your announcement, once we have all
>>>>>> the information.... right now, we do Not have all the required information.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>>>>> KJ4JIO
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 10:48 AM Michelle Thompson <
>>>>>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The final determination letter is the only communication we
>>>>>>> received.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Public link to the letter is in the announcement.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was not contacted during the 7 months of review by the government.
>>>>>>> Neither were the lawyers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I kept up with the request as it worked its way through DHS, DOD,
>>>>>>> and BIS by using the DDTC request status server.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BIS was necessary because we included encryption. There was a
>>>>>>> lengthy discussion on whether or not to include encryption.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Those of you that know the regulations know we are allowed to use
>>>>>>> encryption. However, this complicates the request in several ways. It
>>>>>>> requires an entire additional department to review, and there are a lot of
>>>>>>> potential pitfalls here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not including encryption would make it faster and easier to approve,
>>>>>>> but would make the result incomplete.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We decided to include encryption, trigger the extra scrutiny, and we
>>>>>>> worked through all the language. If we were going to run the marathon then
>>>>>>> we needed to run the entire marathon.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't believe there is usually a lot of correspondence between
>>>>>>> requestor and DDTC at all. I was told to be available for questions (from
>>>>>>> the reviewer) but that contact would be very highly unlikely.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Making the request is not a negotiation or collaboration. There is
>>>>>>> no juicy trove of emails. The silence from the government was absolute.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We had to have the best possible information and case upon
>>>>>>> submission, and be prepared for any outcome.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 07:09 Joseph Armbruster <
>>>>>>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michelle,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Public link to a copy of the submitted form DS-4076 (and
>>>>>>>> supplemental materials if-any)?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Public link to a copy of all communications with the DDTC?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>>>>>>> KJ4JIO
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 10:02 AM Michelle Thompson <
>>>>>>>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Again, all information used in the request is already public.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Again, the policies used to make the succesful request are also
>>>>>>>>> already public and in use.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are spilling a lot of ink  asking for things to be shared that
>>>>>>>>> have already been shared. I've already said I will ask the firm what can be
>>>>>>>>> released.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The final determination is of enormous benefit to AMSAT and many
>>>>>>>>> other organizations. The request was deliberately designed that way, and it
>>>>>>>>> worked.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Time to put it to work for AMSAT.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And celebrate! :+)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 06:24 Joseph Armbruster <
>>>>>>>>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Michelle,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Standby.  The community has absolutely no reason, whatsoever to
>>>>>>>>>> trust any guidelines your group is publishing, unless the community is
>>>>>>>>>> given direct insight into the request itself and all direct communications
>>>>>>>>>> with the DDTC, so that the context and realities of the determination can
>>>>>>>>>> be validated.  What i'm asking for here is not inappropriate, given the
>>>>>>>>>> history, context or claims being made.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This, "Just trust what we say we did", is Not Transparent and
>>>>>>>>>> does not instill confidence in anyone about what is going on.  I do, on the
>>>>>>>>>> other hand, have Hope, that the claims being made are supported.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I will say though, I actually laughed out loud when I read
>>>>>>>>>> "Information contained in CJ requests is not usually made public. The law
>>>>>>>>>> firm would not file it unless it was presented to the State Department as
>>>>>>>>>> private and confidential."  Because, C'mon.. noone in their
>>>>>>>>>> right mind is going to read that and say "oh yeah!" and agree that they
>>>>>>>>>> should just turn their brains off to the actual request.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> With respects to the first sentence, the reality is that most
>>>>>>>>>> companies dealing with the DDTC are exporting defense articles and
>>>>>>>>>> services.  As a result, there's usually a contractual need (and
>>>>>>>>>> could be a real life/death reason) to keep the communications with the
>>>>>>>>>> DDTC, confidential.  Because the intent here is not to manufacture/export
>>>>>>>>>> defense articles or services, there should be no harm in the request being
>>>>>>>>>> made public.  I mean, I believe everyone on the -bb would unanimously Want
>>>>>>>>>> to see it.   On the second sentence, I have an attorney on retainer for my
>>>>>>>>>> business and I could easily go to them and say "All communications between
>>>>>>>>>> parties A and B for this effort will be placed into the public domain, in
>>>>>>>>>> support of an outreach effort going on with this charity, so treat it that
>>>>>>>>>> way".  And, that's what would happen, because, that's what I would be
>>>>>>>>>> paying them to do.  In addition, I am free to take my legal business
>>>>>>>>>> elsewhere if-need-be and I do not have to beg, plead, or pay for any
>>>>>>>>>> release.  Sometimes, having a second set of legal eyes on legal work
>>>>>>>>>> products is a good thing.  I would not have the firm file on my behalf with
>>>>>>>>>> the DDTC, because there's really no need.  That's giving them more power
>>>>>>>>>> and responsibility in the process than they actually need.  I'd use them
>>>>>>>>>> more as support personnel / consultants on an as-needed basis, vs the
>>>>>>>>>> directors of the effort that you now have to beg for a release (of your own
>>>>>>>>>> information...)  This sounds like a disaster.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The contents of a CJ request is private and confidential if and
>>>>>>>>>> only if the submitting party treats it that way.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> KJ4JIO
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 11:23 PM Michelle Thompson <
>>>>>>>>>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, Joseph, it?s amazing news and It is just as good as
>>>>>>>>>>> advertised.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The result is of enormous and direct benefit to AMSAT.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> AMSAT was asked to join the request. I sent a paper letter,
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote the board, brought it up during the 2019 annual board meeting, and
>>>>>>>>>>> published an open letter. I did all I could to enable the full
>>>>>>>>>>> participation of the one organization that stands to benefit the most from
>>>>>>>>>>> this determination.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But, the men you voted for did not respond, at all.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It took a year of very hard work. It?s a gift to the community.
>>>>>>>>>>> It can restore free and open international collaboration.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That?s it. There?s no tricks or gotchas. It is what it is
>>>>>>>>>>> claimed to be.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I would have done the same work and raised the same money if
>>>>>>>>>>> AMSAT had wanted their name on it. I would be just as proud and would be
>>>>>>>>>>> saying the same things. When work needs to be done, it needs to be done.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Information contained in CJ requests is not usually made public.
>>>>>>>>>>> The law firm would not file it unless it was presented to the State
>>>>>>>>>>> Department as private and confidential. This advice was because virtually
>>>>>>>>>>> all requests are for proprietary programs and products. Sticking out in
>>>>>>>>>>> this regard, by doing something they advised strongly against, would not
>>>>>>>>>>> work to our advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on
>>>>>>>>>>> the wrong hill.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Additionally, the law firm does not want their work products or
>>>>>>>>>>> email correspondence published. We will honor that. We want to work with
>>>>>>>>>>> them again. They were fantastic, recommended by EFF, and 100% supportive of
>>>>>>>>>>> open source.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Fortunately, *everything* that went into the request is already
>>>>>>>>>>> public information. All our designs, details, policies, procedures,
>>>>>>>>>>> definitions, diagrams, and code are available to the general public free of
>>>>>>>>>>> charge, today. That?s the primary reason it succeeded. We already follow
>>>>>>>>>>> the law with respect to public domain carve outs and publishing
>>>>>>>>>>> requirements. The final determination shows the value of this approach.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> AMSAT can do this too. There is literally no reason not to. This
>>>>>>>>>>> is the game changer people have been waiting for.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *All* of what *anyone* will need to know to take full advantage
>>>>>>>>>>> will be published in a set of implementation guidelines.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This is the single best risk reduction for AMSAT volunteers that
>>>>>>>>>>> exists in US law. It is the gold standard. We have access as a community to
>>>>>>>>>>> this result because a team of very committed and competent people made it
>>>>>>>>>>> happen and are now going to make it easy to use.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Want to contribute to the guidelines? Participants are welcome.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 18:01 Joseph Armbruster <
>>>>>>>>>>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Michelle,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is quite interesting, indeed!  However, from your press
>>>>>>>>>>>> release, I really have no clue what "Information and Software for a Digital
>>>>>>>>>>>> Microwave Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur
>>>>>>>>>>>> Radio Use", means (in terms of the legalese, definitions and proper nouns
>>>>>>>>>>>> used, etc...).  Depending on how they were defined, the determination may
>>>>>>>>>>>> or may not be directly relevant to AMSAT or anyone else for that matter...
>>>>>>>>>>>> And just to be clear, i'm not trying to be a spoiler here or anything, this
>>>>>>>>>>>> could be really amazing news, or nothing more than a null determination
>>>>>>>>>>>> that sounds great in a headline but really means nothing.  I think Everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>> would welcome relaxed ITAR constraints on AMSAT engineers, in any
>>>>>>>>>>>> way, shape or form...  That being said, this begs the question, is the Form
>>>>>>>>>>>> DS-4076 and all supplemental materials, along with all written
>>>>>>>>>>>> communications with the DOS/DDTC concerning this matter, being made
>>>>>>>>>>>> public?  I think this would be absolutely necessary for anyone on the list
>>>>>>>>>>>> to get excited about this, in any way, shape or form.  I looked on the ORI
>>>>>>>>>>>> website and couldn't find anything around Feb 2020 (per the date the
>>>>>>>>>>>> indicated submission was made per the AUG11 reply from the DDTC).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Although, I am not a particular fan of ORI so-far, which is why
>>>>>>>>>>>> I voted for Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer....
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I do commend any individual or entity that is able and willing
>>>>>>>>>>>> to deal with the DOS or DDTC.  It takes a lot of time and $.  At one point,
>>>>>>>>>>>> my business helped develop parts of a research UAV for a foreign military
>>>>>>>>>>>> on a high-altitude balloon, which included a wireless network.  One export
>>>>>>>>>>>> permit took over six months, with back-and-forths with questions and
>>>>>>>>>>>> clarifications, questions and clarifications, more questions and
>>>>>>>>>>>> clarifications... on and on and on...  Just because they say you can
>>>>>>>>>>>> produce Information and Software for a widget (however those are defined),
>>>>>>>>>>>> it doesn't necessarily mean you can actually get a permit to ship the
>>>>>>>>>>>> hardware with the software on it, anywhere.  Because the 'Information and
>>>>>>>>>>>> Software' (however defined), may not govern the hardware used.  In my case,
>>>>>>>>>>>> there were special accelerometers and gyros, that you don't purchase
>>>>>>>>>>>> without providing a lot of information.  So, no matter what software was
>>>>>>>>>>>> written to drive them, if you shipped them out of the country without a
>>>>>>>>>>>> permit, look out!  I remember finally getting my first export permit and
>>>>>>>>>>>> shipping label and putting it on the box and sending some hardware out.  It
>>>>>>>>>>>> was just a sticky label that went on a box, but wow, it wasn't easy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It sure would be nice if ITAR was less of an issue but the
>>>>>>>>>>>> devil's really in the details here...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>>>>>>>>>>> KJ4JIO
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 12:29 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB
>>>>>>>>>>>> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://openresearch.institute/2020/08/18/cj-determination-open-source-satellite-work-is-free-of-itar/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The United States Department of State has ruled favorably on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Open Research
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Institute's commodity jurisdiction request, finding that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> specified
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave Broadband
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Communications
>>>>>>>>>>>>> System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio Use? is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> subject to State Department jurisdiction under ITAR, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> International
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Traffic in Arms Regulations. This is an important step toward
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reducing the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> burden of regulations restricting international cooperation on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> amateur
>>>>>>>>>>>>> satellite projects, which have impeded engineering work by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> amateurs in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> United States for decades.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Export regulations divide both technical information and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> actual hardware
>>>>>>>>>>>>> into three categories. The most heavily restricted
>>>>>>>>>>>>> technologies fall under
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ITAR, which is administered by the State Department.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Technologies subject
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to more routine restrictions fall under EAR, the Export
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Administration
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regulations, administered by the Department of Commerce.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Technologies that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are not subject to either set of regulations are not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> restricted for export.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20 February 2020, Open Research Institute (ORI) filed a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Commodity
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jurisdiction (CJ) Request with the US State Department,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> seeking to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> establish that key technologies for amateur radio are not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> subject to State
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Department jurisdiction. ?Information and Software for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Digital Microwave
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amateur Radio
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Use? was assigned the case number CJ0003120. On 11 August
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2020, the case
>>>>>>>>>>>>> received a successful final determination: the technology is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not subject to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> State Department jurisdiction. This is the best possible
>>>>>>>>>>>>> outcome of a CJ
>>>>>>>>>>>>> request.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Final Determination letter can be found at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/08/CJ-0003120-Final-Determination-Letter.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Under this determination, the technologies are subject to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> EAR. The next
>>>>>>>>>>>>> step is to submit a classification request to the Commerce
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Department. ORI
>>>>>>>>>>>>> anticipates that the Commerce Department will find that these
>>>>>>>>>>>>> technologies
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are unrestricted under the carve-out for open source in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> EAR.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Open Research Institute (ORI) is a non-profit research and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> development
>>>>>>>>>>>>> organization which provides all of its work to the general
>>>>>>>>>>>>> public under the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> principles of Open Source and Open Access to Research.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This work was accomplished by a team of dedicated and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> competent open source
>>>>>>>>>>>>> volunteers. The effort was initiated by Bruce Perens K6BP and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lead by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michelle Thompson W5NYV.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Open Research Institute developed the ideas behind the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Commodity
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jurisdiction request, hired Thomsen and Burke LLP (
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://t-b.com/) for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> expert legal advice, organized the revisions of the document,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and invited
>>>>>>>>>>>>> organizations and individuals with amateur satellite service
>>>>>>>>>>>>> interests to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> join or support the request.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ORI thanks Libre Space Foundation and Dr. Daniel Estevez for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> providing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their subject matter expertise and written testimony, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> JAMSAT for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> helpful encouragement and support.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The legal costs were fully reimbursed with a generous grant
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Amateur
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Radio Digital Communications (ARDC). See
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ampr.org/grants/grant-open-research-institute/.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ARDC and ORI share a vision of clearly establishing open
>>>>>>>>>>>>> source as the best
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and safest way to accomplish technical volunteer work in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> amateur radio.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This final determination letter provides solid support for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that vision. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> determination enables the development of implementation
>>>>>>>>>>>>> guidelines that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will allow free international collaboration.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This clears the path for a number of interesting projects
>>>>>>>>>>>>> facilitating new
>>>>>>>>>>>>> methods for terrestrial and satellite communications, opening
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the door to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> robust global digital amateur communications.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Questions and inquiries to ori at openresearch.institute
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>>>>>>>>>>>> available
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
>>>>>>>>>>>>> membership. Opinions expressed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> official views of AMSAT-NA.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
>>>>>>>>>>>>> satellite program!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subscription settings:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 19:59:02 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 12:59:02 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c-e4ZwEMXA+mcqU=aT4bFc8U6RXZPtFjigB8LDckRHsWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_ov12dpaeP3QdTPZ9_QDBbNMdncOVEC_APvSoMfzp17g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XJXBNXj9Wwy_B7QfsKZ0-MkHHzxhBx=OckUbMM_QZu2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-VK-+XATBQ-EexkfnQLm81RxhQkd_AwYCudiMHjT1gCA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2URcX=hdNmtFfb55J7GrsqLDkwzKp1HM=bXWm3+7vYvAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_jsYk+jeD7Ps3hQWhwH2eRpASGCzF9S2EqR7RH4yVnzA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2WOWCbnVYhG4A_vaan-MPhGqp9bQpVsjG5H2hHxCPoLqQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_=H6nTEGpAVwCzmO5u7kCexxTtGnPh6zT1wMbn8k08ZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XfdLSUwmxNfaVe5zkKS_WrvVHzUcBRuokD8jz8u=R9iw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c9_8tXut-PHrWCDZo6rbJAMvKFrFpt=wr2Xu81FSvj_7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XxkS5ZbpmRRr7ZderchgEGM8oiY-CtcVWbEpYybqSJCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-e4ZwEMXA+mcqU=aT4bFc8U6RXZPtFjigB8LDckRHsWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2XvfBfBGrFy_bsq1PKN0Qp45d2052s+=EZk65D5BJTg7Q@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, those are the referenced designs.

Yes, the input is available for public inspection, as per ITAR 120.11. It's
all our designs and policies. Yes, you can read them all without
impediment.

There are no other designs or policies, other than what we've published.

The output is available for public inspection, as a final determination
letter.

Just like at your own company, the specific work product of the law firm
hired to assist is confidential. This is ordinary and customary. It's
neither a red flag nor unusual in any way. Just like at your own company,
the final determination letter is the crucial part. It's what you get and
what you use.

You have provided no evidence that the submission packet is ever published
by anyone. Go argue with the State Department about this, not me.

However, even though it would be unique, I've said I would try to get this
released. I'll write an article after the meeting.

There's a bright future ahead of us. It's a real honor to be able to help
here.

Thank you to those that gave me your support in order to be able to
accomplish this. It will make a large positive difference.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 12:36 PM Joseph Armbruster <
josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:

> Michelle,
>
>
> Ok, so just everyone on the BB is entirely clear about what is going on
> here.
>
>
> Your team submitted forms to the DDTC, apparently on February 20, 2020.
> This form that was submitted to the DDTC with the request, has NOT BEEN
> MADE PUBLIC.  As a result, we can not read it.  This document, that we can
> not read, has all the verbiage that matters and is the document that the
> DDTC would have responded to directly.
>
>
> Previously, you have referenced designs that are publicly available, but
> we have no way of knowing if the form above actually referenced those
> designs or not.  Again, we (the community) have absolutely no way of
> knowing or verifying this information, because we can not read the
> submission.
>
>
> You publicly announced on the -bb that "Open Source Satellite Work
> Determined to be Free of ITAR" and publicly were willing to share the DDTC
> response to the forms submitted above, namely the commodity jurisdiction
> determination.  But, we (the community) have no clue what this
> determination is actually referring to, because we can not read what was
> being adjudicated.
>
>
> To summarize:
>
>
> INPUT (FORM) TO DDTC  ===>  time delay from DDTC  ===>  OUTPUT FROM DDTC
> (CJ determination letter).
>
>
> - We have not been able to see the INPUT
>
> - We have been provided with the OUTPUT
>
>    * and the OUTPUT contains little to no actual information in it...
>
>
> I think this is clear enough for everyone on the -bb to comprehend.  So,
> in the immortal words of Johnny 5 from the movie Short Circuit "Need INPUT"!
>
>
> Joseph Armbruster
>
> KJ4JIO
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 3:10 PM Michelle Thompson <
> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> None of what you have written here makes sense.
>>
>> Everything that the US State Department approved for this open source
>> amateur radio satellite service CJ Request is already published and
>> available for inspection. All of the designs and policies are already
>> disclosed to the general public, free of charge. What you keep demanding
>> has already been done.
>>
>> If you won't show your DS-4076 submission packets, then you do not have
>> an argument. You have not provided any proof that publishing the work
>> product of lawyers without their consent is a positive thing to do. It's
>> just not done and it is not material to desperately needed forward
>> progress.
>>
>> You can keep arguing with AMSAT's *own* consultant's opinions and advice,
>> the advice of renowned ITAR/EAR experts hired on recommendation of the EFF,
>> and the US State Department, the Department of Defense, and Commerce BIS,
>> but honestly that is not the best path forward to create a safe and sane
>> volunteer situation for AMSAT.
>>
>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 11:46 AM Joseph Armbruster <
>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Michelle,
>>>
>>>
>>> There's a major, major difference between what you are trying to
>>> accomplish from an 'open and transparency' perspective and what your
>>> average commercial business would do (or AMSAT would likely do, with NDAs
>>> in place...)
>>>
>>>
>>> There's no need for me to publish any of my companies info, because this
>>> is not really about my business.  I did not release an email to the -bb
>>> with the title "Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR".
>>> That's quite a claim and mama didn't raise no fool here and I know the
>>> devil's always in the details with these kinds of things.  And we haven't
>>> been provided with any of the details yet, only claims of success!  I know,
>>> with absolute certainty, that you can have an "open source design",
>>> alllllll you want, composed of specific hardware components that may only
>>> be available to US Persons, you can publish it here, there and everywhere!
>>> However, if you attempted to put the hardware in a box and ship it outside
>>> the US for integration, without an export permit, you can get into major
>>> trouble.  Private companies that develop products and/or offer services for
>>> others typically work under NDAs and they have unique IP interests
>>> (designs, business relationships, etc...) that they wish to protect/keep
>>> secret.  If that kind of information is included in the CJ request, it's up
>>> to the submitter to serve their agreements and protect the information
>>> (if-so-agreed-upon).
>>>
>>>
>>> From what i've observed, what you're trying to do is the polar
>>> opposite.  It's suppose to be about open source, becoming free of ITAR,
>>> serving the amateur radio community, making all the designs public and free
>>> of IP constraints and most importantly, being transparent about the process
>>> (.... and you all seem to use the noble term "Transparency", quite a bit...
>>> ref previous -bb emails...).  If all the designs are public and there's no
>>> IP to protect, why would the CJ request need to be kept private?  The
>>> request that was submitted and adjudicated, contained specific words,
>>> likely referenced specific designs, that may or may not have referenced any
>>> of the designs that you are referring to.  It's impossible for any of us to
>>> make any sense of your release, or substantiate Any of the claims, without
>>> it.  This is the difference in my opinion.  You're obviously not going to
>>> find any other companies submissions around, because they are by-nature,
>>> focused on secrecy and protecting IP, not doing charitable work.  Yours on
>>> the other hand, should be about transparency to the open source / amateur
>>> community, not about secrecy and protecting whatever it is...
>>>
>>>
>>> And, you may say that what i'm asking for is something the "law firm
>>> specifically advised against doing"... but we all know that's just
>>> silly...  Anyone here on the-bb can look up the exact form and see what
>>> data is requested on it.  There is nothing that any open source guru
>>> wouldn't be more than willing to disclose publicly.
>>>
>>>
>>> That's my 10 cents,
>>>
>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>>
>>> KJ4JIO
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 1:03 PM Michelle Thompson <
>>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes. Again, all the information that went into the DS-4076 is already
>>>> publicly available (designs and policies). You can find all the design
>>>> information in our repositories and the policies on our website.
>>>>
>>>> You can see a significant part of the described transmitter design for
>>>> yourself in the review workshop video I posted about a week ago here on
>>>> -BB.
>>>>
>>>> The posting of the submitted DS-4076 seems to be so rare that I cannot
>>>> find an example of one shared on the web. You are asking for something that
>>>> the law firm specifically advised against doing. Again, I have said I would
>>>> raise the issue next time I meet with them.
>>>>
>>>> If you can show me your company's DS-4076 postings, then maybe that
>>>> would help support your point of view. I couldn't find them on the web. I'd
>>>> appreciate the name of the consulting firm or law firm that your company
>>>> used for the CJ Requests so I can call them about their approach to
>>>> releasing their work products. This is an area I'm very interested in for a
>>>> variety of reasons, not just for amateur radio. I'm in strong favor of
>>>> publishing everything possible, but all of us need to honor legitimate or
>>>> required limitations, like the ones we are discussing here.
>>>>
>>>> If it's routine to post DS-4076 submissions, and if you somehow can't
>>>> use a final determination without them, then I should be seeing a lot more
>>>> published DS-4076s than final determination letters. That doesn't appear to
>>>> be the case at all from looking at the list of determinations made over the
>>>> past couple of years, tracking down ones that published their final
>>>> determination letters, and looking for DS-4076s.
>>>>
>>>> All the information and policies involved in this particular request
>>>> are already public. The existence of the determination can be independently
>>>> verified. Your questions have all been answered in the affirmative.
>>>>
>>>> AMSAT's ITAR/EAR consulting firm was notified of this CJ Request
>>>> process, application, and the final determination. The response has been
>>>> very positive and supportive throughout. There are no roadblocks to using
>>>> this final determination to establish a safe and sane open source policy
>>>> for AMSAT from the consulting firm that AMSAT already uses. The proposal
>>>> and retainer fee from this consulting firm for this policy work is sitting
>>>> on the President's desk. I've done all the work necessary to make it easy
>>>> and effective. It's a pleasure to be able to do so, and I look forward to a
>>>> renaissance in the technical volunteer corps.
>>>>
>>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 8:16 AM Joseph Armbruster <
>>>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Michelle,
>>>>>
>>>>> The determination letter itself needs to be interpreted in the correct
>>>>> context.  Noone on the -bb can make any sense of that determination letter
>>>>> right now, without seeing a copy of what was submitted on the form
>>>>> DS-4076.  I can not find this posted publicly anywhere, did I miss it?
>>>>>
>>>>> Is the submitted form DS-4076 (and supplemental materials if-any),
>>>>> posted publicly?
>>>>>
>>>>> If-not, this whole announcement is basically a shoulder shrug for me.
>>>>> It Sounds great... but, we have no evidence that the determination letter
>>>>> actually means anything of value.
>>>>>
>>>>> On question 2, it is good to know there was no back and forth 'juicy'
>>>>> communication.  For the record, it is not uncommon to have a back-and-forth
>>>>> with them.  They typically ask a lot of questions and dig into the
>>>>> requests...  Knowing this fact, will make it that much easier for all
>>>>> of us on the -bb to make sense of your announcement, once we have all the
>>>>> information.... right now, we do Not have all the required information.
>>>>>
>>>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>>>> KJ4JIO
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 10:48 AM Michelle Thompson <
>>>>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The final determination letter is the only communication we received.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Public link to the letter is in the announcement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was not contacted during the 7 months of review by the government.
>>>>>> Neither were the lawyers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I kept up with the request as it worked its way through DHS, DOD, and
>>>>>> BIS by using the DDTC request status server.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BIS was necessary because we included encryption. There was a lengthy
>>>>>> discussion on whether or not to include encryption.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those of you that know the regulations know we are allowed to use
>>>>>> encryption. However, this complicates the request in several ways. It
>>>>>> requires an entire additional department to review, and there are a lot of
>>>>>> potential pitfalls here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not including encryption would make it faster and easier to approve,
>>>>>> but would make the result incomplete.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We decided to include encryption, trigger the extra scrutiny, and we
>>>>>> worked through all the language. If we were going to run the marathon then
>>>>>> we needed to run the entire marathon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't believe there is usually a lot of correspondence between
>>>>>> requestor and DDTC at all. I was told to be available for questions (from
>>>>>> the reviewer) but that contact would be very highly unlikely.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Making the request is not a negotiation or collaboration. There is no
>>>>>> juicy trove of emails. The silence from the government was absolute.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We had to have the best possible information and case upon
>>>>>> submission, and be prepared for any outcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 07:09 Joseph Armbruster <
>>>>>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michelle,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Public link to a copy of the submitted form DS-4076 (and
>>>>>>> supplemental materials if-any)?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Public link to a copy of all communications with the DDTC?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>>>>>> KJ4JIO
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 10:02 AM Michelle Thompson <
>>>>>>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Again, all information used in the request is already public.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Again, the policies used to make the succesful request are also
>>>>>>>> already public and in use.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are spilling a lot of ink  asking for things to be shared that
>>>>>>>> have already been shared. I've already said I will ask the firm what can be
>>>>>>>> released.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The final determination is of enormous benefit to AMSAT and many
>>>>>>>> other organizations. The request was deliberately designed that way, and it
>>>>>>>> worked.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Time to put it to work for AMSAT.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And celebrate! :+)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 06:24 Joseph Armbruster <
>>>>>>>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Michelle,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Standby.  The community has absolutely no reason, whatsoever to
>>>>>>>>> trust any guidelines your group is publishing, unless the community is
>>>>>>>>> given direct insight into the request itself and all direct communications
>>>>>>>>> with the DDTC, so that the context and realities of the determination can
>>>>>>>>> be validated.  What i'm asking for here is not inappropriate, given the
>>>>>>>>> history, context or claims being made.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This, "Just trust what we say we did", is Not Transparent and does
>>>>>>>>> not instill confidence in anyone about what is going on.  I do, on the
>>>>>>>>> other hand, have Hope, that the claims being made are supported.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I will say though, I actually laughed out loud when I read
>>>>>>>>> "Information contained in CJ requests is not usually made public. The law
>>>>>>>>> firm would not file it unless it was presented to the State Department as
>>>>>>>>> private and confidential."  Because, C'mon.. noone in their right
>>>>>>>>> mind is going to read that and say "oh yeah!" and agree that they should
>>>>>>>>> just turn their brains off to the actual request.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> With respects to the first sentence, the reality is that most
>>>>>>>>> companies dealing with the DDTC are exporting defense articles and
>>>>>>>>> services.  As a result, there's usually a contractual need (and
>>>>>>>>> could be a real life/death reason) to keep the communications with the
>>>>>>>>> DDTC, confidential.  Because the intent here is not to manufacture/export
>>>>>>>>> defense articles or services, there should be no harm in the request being
>>>>>>>>> made public.  I mean, I believe everyone on the -bb would unanimously Want
>>>>>>>>> to see it.   On the second sentence, I have an attorney on retainer for my
>>>>>>>>> business and I could easily go to them and say "All communications between
>>>>>>>>> parties A and B for this effort will be placed into the public domain, in
>>>>>>>>> support of an outreach effort going on with this charity, so treat it that
>>>>>>>>> way".  And, that's what would happen, because, that's what I would be
>>>>>>>>> paying them to do.  In addition, I am free to take my legal business
>>>>>>>>> elsewhere if-need-be and I do not have to beg, plead, or pay for any
>>>>>>>>> release.  Sometimes, having a second set of legal eyes on legal work
>>>>>>>>> products is a good thing.  I would not have the firm file on my behalf with
>>>>>>>>> the DDTC, because there's really no need.  That's giving them more power
>>>>>>>>> and responsibility in the process than they actually need.  I'd use them
>>>>>>>>> more as support personnel / consultants on an as-needed basis, vs the
>>>>>>>>> directors of the effort that you now have to beg for a release (of your own
>>>>>>>>> information...)  This sounds like a disaster.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The contents of a CJ request is private and confidential if and
>>>>>>>>> only if the submitting party treats it that way.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> KJ4JIO
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 11:23 PM Michelle Thompson <
>>>>>>>>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, Joseph, it?s amazing news and It is just as good as
>>>>>>>>>> advertised.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The result is of enormous and direct benefit to AMSAT.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> AMSAT was asked to join the request. I sent a paper letter, wrote
>>>>>>>>>> the board, brought it up during the 2019 annual board meeting, and
>>>>>>>>>> published an open letter. I did all I could to enable the full
>>>>>>>>>> participation of the one organization that stands to benefit the most from
>>>>>>>>>> this determination.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But, the men you voted for did not respond, at all.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It took a year of very hard work. It?s a gift to the community.
>>>>>>>>>> It can restore free and open international collaboration.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That?s it. There?s no tricks or gotchas. It is what it is claimed
>>>>>>>>>> to be.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I would have done the same work and raised the same money if
>>>>>>>>>> AMSAT had wanted their name on it. I would be just as proud and would be
>>>>>>>>>> saying the same things. When work needs to be done, it needs to be done.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Information contained in CJ requests is not usually made public.
>>>>>>>>>> The law firm would not file it unless it was presented to the State
>>>>>>>>>> Department as private and confidential. This advice was because virtually
>>>>>>>>>> all requests are for proprietary programs and products. Sticking out in
>>>>>>>>>> this regard, by doing something they advised strongly against, would not
>>>>>>>>>> work to our advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on
>>>>>>>>>> the wrong hill.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Additionally, the law firm does not want their work products or
>>>>>>>>>> email correspondence published. We will honor that. We want to work with
>>>>>>>>>> them again. They were fantastic, recommended by EFF, and 100% supportive of
>>>>>>>>>> open source.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Fortunately, *everything* that went into the request is already
>>>>>>>>>> public information. All our designs, details, policies, procedures,
>>>>>>>>>> definitions, diagrams, and code are available to the general public free of
>>>>>>>>>> charge, today. That?s the primary reason it succeeded. We already follow
>>>>>>>>>> the law with respect to public domain carve outs and publishing
>>>>>>>>>> requirements. The final determination shows the value of this approach.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> AMSAT can do this too. There is literally no reason not to. This
>>>>>>>>>> is the game changer people have been waiting for.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *All* of what *anyone* will need to know to take full advantage
>>>>>>>>>> will be published in a set of implementation guidelines.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is the single best risk reduction for AMSAT volunteers that
>>>>>>>>>> exists in US law. It is the gold standard. We have access as a community to
>>>>>>>>>> this result because a team of very committed and competent people made it
>>>>>>>>>> happen and are now going to make it easy to use.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Want to contribute to the guidelines? Participants are welcome.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 18:01 Joseph Armbruster <
>>>>>>>>>> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Michelle,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This is quite interesting, indeed!  However, from your press
>>>>>>>>>>> release, I really have no clue what "Information and Software for a Digital
>>>>>>>>>>> Microwave Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur
>>>>>>>>>>> Radio Use", means (in terms of the legalese, definitions and proper nouns
>>>>>>>>>>> used, etc...).  Depending on how they were defined, the determination may
>>>>>>>>>>> or may not be directly relevant to AMSAT or anyone else for that matter...
>>>>>>>>>>> And just to be clear, i'm not trying to be a spoiler here or anything, this
>>>>>>>>>>> could be really amazing news, or nothing more than a null determination
>>>>>>>>>>> that sounds great in a headline but really means nothing.  I think Everyone
>>>>>>>>>>> would welcome relaxed ITAR constraints on AMSAT engineers, in any
>>>>>>>>>>> way, shape or form...  That being said, this begs the question, is the Form
>>>>>>>>>>> DS-4076 and all supplemental materials, along with all written
>>>>>>>>>>> communications with the DOS/DDTC concerning this matter, being made
>>>>>>>>>>> public?  I think this would be absolutely necessary for anyone on the list
>>>>>>>>>>> to get excited about this, in any way, shape or form.  I looked on the ORI
>>>>>>>>>>> website and couldn't find anything around Feb 2020 (per the date the
>>>>>>>>>>> indicated submission was made per the AUG11 reply from the DDTC).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Although, I am not a particular fan of ORI so-far, which is why
>>>>>>>>>>> I voted for Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer....
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I do commend any individual or entity that is able and willing
>>>>>>>>>>> to deal with the DOS or DDTC.  It takes a lot of time and $.  At one point,
>>>>>>>>>>> my business helped develop parts of a research UAV for a foreign military
>>>>>>>>>>> on a high-altitude balloon, which included a wireless network.  One export
>>>>>>>>>>> permit took over six months, with back-and-forths with questions and
>>>>>>>>>>> clarifications, questions and clarifications, more questions and
>>>>>>>>>>> clarifications... on and on and on...  Just because they say you can
>>>>>>>>>>> produce Information and Software for a widget (however those are defined),
>>>>>>>>>>> it doesn't necessarily mean you can actually get a permit to ship the
>>>>>>>>>>> hardware with the software on it, anywhere.  Because the 'Information and
>>>>>>>>>>> Software' (however defined), may not govern the hardware used.  In my case,
>>>>>>>>>>> there were special accelerometers and gyros, that you don't purchase
>>>>>>>>>>> without providing a lot of information.  So, no matter what software was
>>>>>>>>>>> written to drive them, if you shipped them out of the country without a
>>>>>>>>>>> permit, look out!  I remember finally getting my first export permit and
>>>>>>>>>>> shipping label and putting it on the box and sending some hardware out.  It
>>>>>>>>>>> was just a sticky label that went on a box, but wow, it wasn't easy.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It sure would be nice if ITAR was less of an issue but the
>>>>>>>>>>> devil's really in the details here...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>>>>>>>>>> KJ4JIO
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 12:29 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>>>>>>>>>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://openresearch.institute/2020/08/18/cj-determination-open-source-satellite-work-is-free-of-itar/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The United States Department of State has ruled favorably on
>>>>>>>>>>>> Open Research
>>>>>>>>>>>> Institute's commodity jurisdiction request, finding that
>>>>>>>>>>>> specified
>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave Broadband
>>>>>>>>>>>> Communications
>>>>>>>>>>>> System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio Use? is
>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely not
>>>>>>>>>>>> subject to State Department jurisdiction under ITAR, the
>>>>>>>>>>>> International
>>>>>>>>>>>> Traffic in Arms Regulations. This is an important step toward
>>>>>>>>>>>> reducing the
>>>>>>>>>>>> burden of regulations restricting international cooperation on
>>>>>>>>>>>> amateur
>>>>>>>>>>>> satellite projects, which have impeded engineering work by
>>>>>>>>>>>> amateurs in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> United States for decades.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Export regulations divide both technical information and actual
>>>>>>>>>>>> hardware
>>>>>>>>>>>> into three categories. The most heavily restricted technologies
>>>>>>>>>>>> fall under
>>>>>>>>>>>> ITAR, which is administered by the State Department.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Technologies subject
>>>>>>>>>>>> to more routine restrictions fall under EAR, the Export
>>>>>>>>>>>> Administration
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regulations, administered by the Department of Commerce.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Technologies that
>>>>>>>>>>>> are not subject to either set of regulations are not restricted
>>>>>>>>>>>> for export.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20 February 2020, Open Research Institute (ORI) filed a
>>>>>>>>>>>> Commodity
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jurisdiction (CJ) Request with the US State Department, seeking
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> establish that key technologies for amateur radio are not
>>>>>>>>>>>> subject to State
>>>>>>>>>>>> Department jurisdiction. ?Information and Software for a
>>>>>>>>>>>> Digital Microwave
>>>>>>>>>>>> Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial
>>>>>>>>>>>> Amateur Radio
>>>>>>>>>>>> Use? was assigned the case number CJ0003120. On 11 August 2020,
>>>>>>>>>>>> the case
>>>>>>>>>>>> received a successful final determination: the technology is
>>>>>>>>>>>> not subject to
>>>>>>>>>>>> State Department jurisdiction. This is the best possible
>>>>>>>>>>>> outcome of a CJ
>>>>>>>>>>>> request.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Final Determination letter can be found at
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/08/CJ-0003120-Final-Determination-Letter.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Under this determination, the technologies are subject to the
>>>>>>>>>>>> EAR. The next
>>>>>>>>>>>> step is to submit a classification request to the Commerce
>>>>>>>>>>>> Department. ORI
>>>>>>>>>>>> anticipates that the Commerce Department will find that these
>>>>>>>>>>>> technologies
>>>>>>>>>>>> are unrestricted under the carve-out for open source in the EAR.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Open Research Institute (ORI) is a non-profit research and
>>>>>>>>>>>> development
>>>>>>>>>>>> organization which provides all of its work to the general
>>>>>>>>>>>> public under the
>>>>>>>>>>>> principles of Open Source and Open Access to Research.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This work was accomplished by a team of dedicated and competent
>>>>>>>>>>>> open source
>>>>>>>>>>>> volunteers. The effort was initiated by Bruce Perens K6BP and
>>>>>>>>>>>> lead by
>>>>>>>>>>>> Michelle Thompson W5NYV.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Open Research Institute developed the ideas behind the Commodity
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jurisdiction request, hired Thomsen and Burke LLP (
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://t-b.com/) for
>>>>>>>>>>>> expert legal advice, organized the revisions of the document,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and invited
>>>>>>>>>>>> organizations and individuals with amateur satellite service
>>>>>>>>>>>> interests to
>>>>>>>>>>>> join or support the request.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ORI thanks Libre Space Foundation and Dr. Daniel Estevez for
>>>>>>>>>>>> providing
>>>>>>>>>>>> their subject matter expertise and written testimony, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> JAMSAT for
>>>>>>>>>>>> helpful encouragement and support.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The legal costs were fully reimbursed with a generous grant
>>>>>>>>>>>> from Amateur
>>>>>>>>>>>> Radio Digital Communications (ARDC). See
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ampr.org/grants/grant-open-research-institute/.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ARDC and ORI share a vision of clearly establishing open source
>>>>>>>>>>>> as the best
>>>>>>>>>>>> and safest way to accomplish technical volunteer work in
>>>>>>>>>>>> amateur radio.
>>>>>>>>>>>> This final determination letter provides solid support for that
>>>>>>>>>>>> vision. The
>>>>>>>>>>>> determination enables the development of implementation
>>>>>>>>>>>> guidelines that
>>>>>>>>>>>> will allow free international collaboration.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This clears the path for a number of interesting projects
>>>>>>>>>>>> facilitating new
>>>>>>>>>>>> methods for terrestrial and satellite communications, opening
>>>>>>>>>>>> the door to
>>>>>>>>>>>> robust global digital amateur communications.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Questions and inquiries to ori at openresearch.institute
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>>>>>>>>>>> available
>>>>>>>>>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
>>>>>>>>>>>> membership. Opinions expressed
>>>>>>>>>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>>>>>>>>>>> views of AMSAT-NA.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
>>>>>>>>>>>> satellite program!
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subscription settings:
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>

From mat_62 at charter.net  Wed Aug 19 21:08:28 2020
From: mat_62 at charter.net (Michael Tondee)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 17:08:28 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ridiculous reactions
Message-ID: <c525805c-19bf-f9c6-43e4-0bcf69f4bb77@charter.net>

We have potentially great news about ITAR and all certain people can 
think to do is try to tear it down. Could it be that some people don't 
want AMSAT to be out from under ITAR because it removes a convenient 
excuse for the lack of ability to get anything consequential done 
towards launching an HEO satellite? The? premature negative reactions 
are ridiculous.

73,

Michael, W4HIJ


From johnbrier at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 21:20:29 2020
From: johnbrier at gmail.com (John Brier)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 17:20:29 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Some benefits of open source sats that I envision
Message-ID: <CALn0fKP3oi0VEcpr2vSgnQ+pvmWk02Rw0eotoa-jgFx7hF+_Xw@mail.gmail.com>

I am excited to hear about the possibility of ITAR not restricting
open source satellite work.

You can see a similar excitement in how AMSAT talks about the Linear
Transponder Module and the possibility of seeing that module in
multiple unique university satellites.

Just imagine if instead of having to hand hold every university who
was interested in the AMSAT LTM in their efforts to use the module, if
instead its design was published online for free for anyone to use.

Imagine people launching sats using it you didn't even know were going
to be launched. Imagine they found issues or ways to improve it, and
just submitted design changes back to you for free. Not to mention you
get to see and use your technology in additional sats you didn't have
the funds to build or launch.

It's hard to know what went wrong with AO-95, but imagine if the Fox
designs were open source and others were launching Fox sats and made
small changes to the antenna design, or other suspect components, to
see if it avoided that issue. You could perhaps figure out what caused
the issue over time, not to mention, have a lot more sats to operate.

I'm also envisioning AMSAT-NA working with all the other AMSAT groups
around the world, and many different universities around the world, on
the best sat designs for different categories. You could build the
most dependable possible FM sats, linear sats, and more complex sats
like the GOLF project describes.

If it is at all possible to get around ITAR so sats can be developed
the open source way, I think it would be wildly beneficial.

73, John Brier KG4AKV

From dave at druidnetworks.com  Wed Aug 19 21:22:11 2020
From: dave at druidnetworks.com (David Swanson)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 16:22:11 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards
In-Reply-To: <CALn0fKMUgmMZYnsLCZX5JMW9z_npWgHgaMWP6WQGp0W_KcmHfg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2VA8K-TWiq6cnOHVVNRu8bSup+yOReSHcoF-t4jWkdgQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BDB7F3B4-5DE9-483B-8EF7-4D117A8D25B7@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtPNcQ00gY346GybPkdQOoYpNKnzkJjfVjd+R2EjBXGig@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyXSR3UUb+GwTqV6mcfzJT29SxtQwSfR4+yboBMfd8wZ+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALn0fKMUgmMZYnsLCZX5JMW9z_npWgHgaMWP6WQGp0W_KcmHfg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANq+eyWLG=z=EML26x9+DiXgyO-re_EupN+R+u=OqGQLk0xVBw@mail.gmail.com>

No matter how many times the slate party repeats "The sky is green" it's
still not going to be true. Please stop. The slate party has called for an
open and transparent AMSAT, consequences (like torquing off a launch
provider or a government agency) be damned. When presented with the chance
actually *be* open and transparent themselves - you know, to walk the talk
- the slate party has refused to do so. This is a double standard, and the
height of hypocrisy. I stand by my assessment that ORI has produced nothing
of interest to operators, if I'm wrong - then please provide the list of
satellites ORI has launched... I'll wait. The only thing I care about AMSAT
doing is keeping Amateur Radio in Space, and that's the only reason I'm a
member, and it's the stated objective of this organization. ORI can do
whatever ORI wants, I'm not a member, and don't care what anyone
volunteering for that organization does, but I expect volunteers working in
AMSAT to be working towards that mission, not working towards
something unrelated to keeping amateur radio in space.

In case you've missed it in the past, I'm a proud part-owner in an ITAR
registered business - as we manufacture a small number of items for export
that are clearly munitions.  I'm here to tell you I won't be sharing
anything we've paid lawyers to produce for us, as it's a key part of our
intellectual property and contains information about our compliance. I have
absolutely no expectation that Michelle will be sharing their advisory
opinion, request or response. If they did, then I would say they have some
extremely poor lawyers advising them.

-Dave, KG5CCI

On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 3:46 PM John Brier <johnbrier at gmail.com> wrote:

> This is not a double standard or a lack of transparency. Their lawyer
> requested they not release certain information and they are doing as
> requested.
>
> Open source software companies work with security embargos on
> vulnerabilities, and NDAs on prerelease hardware all the time. They keep
> specific things secret for as long as they have to and then open it up as
> soon as they can.
>
> Michelle even said she would double check with the lawyers to see if they
> can release it. She is also looking into whether there are examples of this
> form being published online by other orgs. She is not saying flat out no
> because I have a right to.
>
> 73, John Brier KG4AKV
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 16:21 David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
>> I'm sorry - but this thread is absolutely hilarious, and the last reply by
>> Mr. Perens is the cherry on top of the stupidity cake.
>>
>> Michelle and her comrades have spouted all about transparency and openness
>> for the past year, but when they're presented with an opportunity to be
>> transparent and open with their competing organizations they play the 'Our
>> Lawyers said not to share card'. When presented with their hypocrisy they
>> retreat to the completely expected position of politicians everywhere by
>> claiming that while AMSAT should make everything open, ORI has a right to
>> keep things secret, because what they're doing is special and different.
>> And then - amazingly - still have the audacity to somehow justify their
>> position by claiming AMSAT isn't launching satellites? Unless I'm
>> mistaken,
>> ORI/Perens Inc. have launched precisely *ZERO* birds ever - AMSAT has put
>> 4
>> birds in orbit since I've been a member, and has provided parts and
>> guidance to countless 3rd parties to launch their own birds. They have a
>> realistic plan to get more birds into the orbits operators want despite
>> not
>> being part of the in-crowd... I have complete faith that they will
>> deliver,
>> because they already have. ORI has delivered jack all except promises and
>> chaos.
>>
>> Maybe - just MAYBE - this thread lays bare what the community will be
>> getting with "the slate" of candidates. A whole bunch of "Thee, but not
>> for
>> me" type of leadership, and a whole bunch of empty guarantees.
>>
>> -Dave, KG5CCI
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:17 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Sorry you feel that way. The unfortunate fact is that AMSAT has already
>> > been judged by its outside funding organizations, and is going to have a
>> > hard time surmounting that without a major change in leadership. It
>> isn't
>> > going to matter much for you to stick with leadership who can't can't
>> build
>> > and launch enough satellites. That is what it is coming to. Fixing that
>> is
>> > the only agenda.
>> >
>> > On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 11:18 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
>> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > > My final word. At least some people on your agendized team, for the
>> take
>> > > over of AMSAT, I hold or have held in high respect. That is, at least
>> > until
>> > > they allowed themselves to be associated with this travesty of ego. I
>> now
>> > > question their judgement And motivation. That?s on you. TEAM politics
>> > isn?t
>> > > what this is about. Character, track record, and how I have seen
>> > candidates
>> > > treat Me and others is how I will vote.
>> > >
>> > > I am highly disappointed that this has turned into a we / they
>> campaign.
>> > > The organization is better than that. Regardless of the outcome of
>> this
>> > > election, I judge AMSAT and it reputation will be damaged moving
>> forward.
>> > >
>> > > EMike, AA8EM
>> > >
>> > > EMike McCardel, AA8EM
>> > > Past Senior Editor AMSAT News Service
>> > > Past AMSAT-NA VP Educational Relations
>> > > Former ARRL, Ohio Section, Affiliated Club Coordinator
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > On Aug 19, 2020, at 1:11 PM, Michelle Thompson <
>> > > mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > ?
>> > > > You might have missed the part where all of the information in this
>> > > particular CJ request is already publicly available. It's already
>> > > transparent.
>> > > >
>> > > > The submitted form itself is not usually published. That's the only
>> > > restriction we are talking about.
>> > > >
>> > > > This is fundamentally different from refusing to allow Directors
>> access
>> > > to corporate records unless they sign NDAs, then showing up without
>> the
>> > > actual NDAs, then continuing to deny access to records and
>> communications
>> > > after everyone signed a blank form that purported to be a signature
>> form
>> > > for these alleged NDAs. Some of which have yet to be produced and you
>> as
>> > a
>> > > member are not allowed to know about.
>> > > >
>> > > > Your attack is off base and inaccurate. I'm sorry you feel the way
>> you
>> > > do. This work means that things can get dramatically better for the
>> > > organization in highly visible and measurable ways.
>> > > >
>> > > > -Michelle W5NYV
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 9:33 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
>> > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> > > >> Just an observation. Among all of this talk, during the past BOoD
>> > > election
>> > > >> cycle, about Transparency, I find it amazing that the excuse of the
>> > > Lawyers
>> > > >> or others don't think it wise to disclose information can even be
>> an
>> > > >> argument.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Michelle Wrote:
>> > > >> "Unless, of course, this  Information contained in CJ requests is
>> not
>> > > >> usually made public. The law firm would not file it unless it was
>> > > presented
>> > > >> to the State Department as private and confidential. This advice
>> was
>> > > >> because virtually all requests are for proprietary programs and
>> > > products.
>> > > >> Sticking out in this regard, by doing something they advised
>> strongly
>> > > >> against, would not work to our
>> > > >> advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the
>> > > wrong
>> > > >> hill.  as an admission that NDA's are indeed important and not just
>> > > >> convenient."
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Is this not the very essence of Non-Disclosure Agreements? Without
>> the
>> > > >> transparency which seems to be lacking here this comes across as a
>> > > simple
>> > > >> political stunt. Enough already.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> I am not voting for any TEAM, I'm putting my trust in individuals
>> > whom I
>> > > >> respect and trust and have no agenda other than serving AMSAT to
>> keep
>> > > >> amateur radio in space.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> EMike, AA8EM
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> E. Michael McCardel, AA8EM, former KC8YLD
>> > > >> Former Senior Editor for AMSAT News Service,
>> > > >> Past VP Educational Relations for AMSAT-NA
>> > > >> Former Ohio Section Affiliated Club Coordinator
>> > > >> _______________________________________________
>> > > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>> available
>> > > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> > > Opinions expressed
>> > > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>> views
>> > > of AMSAT-NA.
>> > > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> > > program!
>> > > >> Subscription settings:
>> > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> > Opinions
>> > > expressed
>> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of
>> > > AMSAT-NA.
>> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> > program!
>> > > Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions
>> > expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> > AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 21:38:13 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 17:38:13 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2VmVq-qiCWhV-HEu7UY1G7GnHSU2GZyEEGndMnb7CNnvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2VA8K-TWiq6cnOHVVNRu8bSup+yOReSHcoF-t4jWkdgQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BDB7F3B4-5DE9-483B-8EF7-4D117A8D25B7@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtPNcQ00gY346GybPkdQOoYpNKnzkJjfVjd+R2EjBXGig@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyXSR3UUb+GwTqV6mcfzJT29SxtQwSfR4+yboBMfd8wZ+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2VmVq-qiCWhV-HEu7UY1G7GnHSU2GZyEEGndMnb7CNnvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c-N-OgGVEhrpFNVr7=3ESz4GtnPGBVRVQW=9X8_7wqzCw@mail.gmail.com>

Michelle,

There's no attack (though, high five on playing the victim card)

When you say  "All of the information contained in the request is already
public."... that's directly misleading everyone on the -bb and you know
it.  Because you did NOT release the submission to the DDTC, which contains
all relevant information.  So, right now, noone on the -bb actually Knows
what was evaluated.

All your team has to do is, Reply-all, attach, select, send!  It's as easy
as that...  Can you pull that off for us?

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO

On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 5:25 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> All of the information contained in the request is already public.
>
> I've presented my satellite credentials, both amateur and professional, in
> the past, several times. I've explained what I've contributed to in orbit.
> We have volunteers with a wide variety of commercial satellite success
> across three continents. We have a lot of experienced people. Your
> description is completely inaccurate and unfair. I'm not sure why you keep
> doing this given the proven track record of the active volunteer corps of
> ORI.
>
> You know, there's a lot of AMSAT/ORI volunteers. Attacking ORI is attacking
> AMSAT, since it's an AMSAT Member Society. Attacking ORI is attacking AMSAT
> volunteers, given the large amount of crossover. Please stop.
>
> The submission packet itself for a CJ Request is not normally made public.
> I've agreed to try and get it published. As far as I can tell, this would
> be unique.
>
> But, hey, the successful CJ Request result was unique, so why not. I might
> be able to pull it off.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 1:21 PM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > I'm sorry - but this thread is absolutely hilarious, and the last reply
> by
> > Mr. Perens is the cherry on top of the stupidity cake.
> >
> > Michelle and her comrades have spouted all about transparency and
> openness
> > for the past year, but when they're presented with an opportunity to be
> > transparent and open with their competing organizations they play the
> 'Our
> > Lawyers said not to share card'. When presented with their hypocrisy they
> > retreat to the completely expected position of politicians everywhere by
> > claiming that while AMSAT should make everything open, ORI has a right to
> > keep things secret, because what they're doing is special and different.
> > And then - amazingly - still have the audacity to somehow justify their
> > position by claiming AMSAT isn't launching satellites? Unless I'm
> mistaken,
> > ORI/Perens Inc. have launched precisely *ZERO* birds ever - AMSAT has
> put 4
> > birds in orbit since I've been a member, and has provided parts and
> > guidance to countless 3rd parties to launch their own birds. They have a
> > realistic plan to get more birds into the orbits operators want despite
> not
> > being part of the in-crowd... I have complete faith that they will
> deliver,
> > because they already have. ORI has delivered jack all except promises and
> > chaos.
> >
> > Maybe - just MAYBE - this thread lays bare what the community will be
> > getting with "the slate" of candidates. A whole bunch of "Thee, but not
> for
> > me" type of leadership, and a whole bunch of empty guarantees.
> >
> > -Dave, KG5CCI
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:17 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Sorry you feel that way. The unfortunate fact is that AMSAT has already
> > > been judged by its outside funding organizations, and is going to have
> a
> > > hard time surmounting that without a major change in leadership. It
> isn't
> > > going to matter much for you to stick with leadership who can't can't
> > build
> > > and launch enough satellites. That is what it is coming to. Fixing that
> > is
> > > the only agenda.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 11:18 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
> > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > My final word. At least some people on your agendized team, for the
> > take
> > > > over of AMSAT, I hold or have held in high respect. That is, at least
> > > until
> > > > they allowed themselves to be associated with this travesty of ego. I
> > now
> > > > question their judgement And motivation. That?s on you. TEAM politics
> > > isn?t
> > > > what this is about. Character, track record, and how I have seen
> > > candidates
> > > > treat Me and others is how I will vote.
> > > >
> > > > I am highly disappointed that this has turned into a we / they
> > campaign.
> > > > The organization is better than that. Regardless of the outcome of
> this
> > > > election, I judge AMSAT and it reputation will be damaged moving
> > forward.
> > > >
> > > > EMike, AA8EM
> > > >
> > > > EMike McCardel, AA8EM
> > > > Past Senior Editor AMSAT News Service
> > > > Past AMSAT-NA VP Educational Relations
> > > > Former ARRL, Ohio Section, Affiliated Club Coordinator
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On Aug 19, 2020, at 1:11 PM, Michelle Thompson <
> > > > mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > ?
> > > > > You might have missed the part where all of the information in this
> > > > particular CJ request is already publicly available. It's already
> > > > transparent.
> > > > >
> > > > > The submitted form itself is not usually published. That's the only
> > > > restriction we are talking about.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is fundamentally different from refusing to allow Directors
> > access
> > > > to corporate records unless they sign NDAs, then showing up without
> the
> > > > actual NDAs, then continuing to deny access to records and
> > communications
> > > > after everyone signed a blank form that purported to be a signature
> > form
> > > > for these alleged NDAs. Some of which have yet to be produced and you
> > as
> > > a
> > > > member are not allowed to know about.
> > > > >
> > > > > Your attack is off base and inaccurate. I'm sorry you feel the way
> > you
> > > > do. This work means that things can get dramatically better for the
> > > > organization in highly visible and measurable ways.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Michelle W5NYV
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 9:33 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
> > > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> > > > >> Just an observation. Among all of this talk, during the past BOoD
> > > > election
> > > > >> cycle, about Transparency, I find it amazing that the excuse of
> the
> > > > Lawyers
> > > > >> or others don't think it wise to disclose information can even be
> an
> > > > >> argument.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Michelle Wrote:
> > > > >> "Unless, of course, this  Information contained in CJ requests is
> > not
> > > > >> usually made public. The law firm would not file it unless it was
> > > > presented
> > > > >> to the State Department as private and confidential. This advice
> was
> > > > >> because virtually all requests are for proprietary programs and
> > > > products.
> > > > >> Sticking out in this regard, by doing something they advised
> > strongly
> > > > >> against, would not work to our
> > > > >> advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on
> the
> > > > wrong
> > > > >> hill.  as an admission that NDA's are indeed important and not
> just
> > > > >> convenient."
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Is this not the very essence of Non-Disclosure Agreements? Without
> > the
> > > > >> transparency which seems to be lacking here this comes across as a
> > > > simple
> > > > >> political stunt. Enough already.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I am not voting for any TEAM, I'm putting my trust in individuals
> > > whom I
> > > > >> respect and trust and have no agenda other than serving AMSAT to
> > keep
> > > > >> amateur radio in space.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> EMike, AA8EM
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> E. Michael McCardel, AA8EM, former KC8YLD
> > > > >> Former Senior Editor for AMSAT News Service,
> > > > >> Past VP Educational Relations for AMSAT-NA
> > > > >> Former Ohio Section Affiliated Club Coordinator
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> > available
> > > > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > > > Opinions expressed
> > > > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> > views
> > > > of AMSAT-NA.
> > > > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > > > program!
> > > > >> Subscription settings:
> > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> > > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > > Opinions
> > > > expressed
> > > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> > of
> > > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > > program!
> > > > Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions
> > > expressed
> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From skristof at etczone.com  Wed Aug 19 21:56:55 2020
From: skristof at etczone.com (Steve Kristoff)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 17:56:55 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c-e4ZwEMXA+mcqU=aT4bFc8U6RXZPtFjigB8LDckRHsWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_ov12dpaeP3QdTPZ9_QDBbNMdncOVEC_APvSoMfzp17g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XJXBNXj9Wwy_B7QfsKZ0-MkHHzxhBx=OckUbMM_QZu2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-VK-+XATBQ-EexkfnQLm81RxhQkd_AwYCudiMHjT1gCA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2URcX=hdNmtFfb55J7GrsqLDkwzKp1HM=bXWm3+7vYvAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_jsYk+jeD7Ps3hQWhwH2eRpASGCzF9S2EqR7RH4yVnzA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2WOWCbnVYhG4A_vaan-MPhGqp9bQpVsjG5H2hHxCPoLqQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_=H6nTEGpAVwCzmO5u7kCexxTtGnPh6zT1wMbn8k08ZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XfdLSUwmxNfaVe5zkKS_WrvVHzUcBRuokD8jz8u=R9iw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c9_8tXut-PHrWCDZo6rbJAMvKFrFpt=wr2Xu81FSvj_7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XxkS5ZbpmRRr7ZderchgEGM8oiY-CtcVWbEpYybqSJCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-e4ZwEMXA+mcqU=aT4bFc8U6RXZPtFjigB8LDckRHsWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <999bb7cf2802f53ead8bda77da89ce3d@etczone.com>


Really, Joseph, we get your point. Give your typing fingers a rest.

Steve AI9IN

?
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
Date: 08/19/20 17:47
To: Michelle Thompson (mountain.michelle at gmail.com)
Cc: AMSAT BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of ITAR

Michelle,


Ok, so just everyone on the BB is entirely clear about what is going on
here.






From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 22:02:39 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 18:02:39 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards
In-Reply-To: <CALn0fKMUgmMZYnsLCZX5JMW9z_npWgHgaMWP6WQGp0W_KcmHfg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2VA8K-TWiq6cnOHVVNRu8bSup+yOReSHcoF-t4jWkdgQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BDB7F3B4-5DE9-483B-8EF7-4D117A8D25B7@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtPNcQ00gY346GybPkdQOoYpNKnzkJjfVjd+R2EjBXGig@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyXSR3UUb+GwTqV6mcfzJT29SxtQwSfR4+yboBMfd8wZ+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALn0fKMUgmMZYnsLCZX5JMW9z_npWgHgaMWP6WQGp0W_KcmHfg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c_C78Ai-ivt4NPXDsgdOP+0xmAb87-sMFEwHfS7G9vRmQ@mail.gmail.com>

John Brier,

Anyone on the -bb can see right through this John, by simply examining the
submission form from the DDTC themselves.  Anyone on the -bb can register
with the DDTC Right Now and submit the same form for some other request...
and, send me, you and everyone else on the-bb a copy of the forms before,
after, or during the submission.  The DDTC does not require it to be kept a
secret.

And, an attorney was hired... whoopty doo!  Did whoever is working with the
attorney sign over all right, title and interest in the form submission to
the attorney!?  And if-so, do you really trust people that think having to
ask an attorney for permission to handle their own information is a great
idea!?!  Just the thought of being pigeon holed into working with a single
attorney or firm and having to check with them to get a release signed from
them, before releasing information like this, is frightening to me!  It's
not like this is a criminal defense case...  This whole thing is
functionally equivalent to some couple hiring an attorney to help fill out
immigration forms and then some family member comes up to them and asks
"hey can i see how you filled out section X?"... and then, the couple turns
around and says "Oh, no... I have to ask my attorney for a release before I
let you see it".... seriously ?!!?

Why, in all humanity... would you ever give an attorney leverage over your
documents / information ?!?!

She's going to be hard pressed to find anyone else that has publicized
their DDTC submissions.  But this is entirely besides the point and
irrelevant, and YOU ALL KNOW IT.  Most companies have a reason to protect
the development of their (or others) defense articles.  There are no
defense articles or other IP to protect here, as-far-as-we-all-know?!!?!?
Why does an organization focused on transparent open source development of
amateur satellite technology care about protecting this submission to the
DDTC?  That's a more critical question.  Why wasn't the DDTC submission
provided to the -bb community before being sent out?  So we could know what
was being requested and why?


Attach, select file, send already,
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO



On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 5:34 PM John Brier via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> This is not a double standard or a lack of transparency. Their lawyer
> requested they not release certain information and they are doing as
> requested.
>
> Open source software companies work with security embargos on
> vulnerabilities, and NDAs on prerelease hardware all the time. They keep
> specific things secret for as long as they have to and then open it up as
> soon as they can.
>
> Michelle even said she would double check with the lawyers to see if they
> can release it. She is also looking into whether there are examples of this
> form being published online by other orgs. She is not saying flat out no
> because I have a right to.
>
> 73, John Brier KG4AKV
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 16:21 David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org
> >
> wrote:
>
> > I'm sorry - but this thread is absolutely hilarious, and the last reply
> by
> > Mr. Perens is the cherry on top of the stupidity cake.
> >
> > Michelle and her comrades have spouted all about transparency and
> openness
> > for the past year, but when they're presented with an opportunity to be
> > transparent and open with their competing organizations they play the
> 'Our
> > Lawyers said not to share card'. When presented with their hypocrisy they
> > retreat to the completely expected position of politicians everywhere by
> > claiming that while AMSAT should make everything open, ORI has a right to
> > keep things secret, because what they're doing is special and different.
> > And then - amazingly - still have the audacity to somehow justify their
> > position by claiming AMSAT isn't launching satellites? Unless I'm
> mistaken,
> > ORI/Perens Inc. have launched precisely *ZERO* birds ever - AMSAT has
> put 4
> > birds in orbit since I've been a member, and has provided parts and
> > guidance to countless 3rd parties to launch their own birds. They have a
> > realistic plan to get more birds into the orbits operators want despite
> not
> > being part of the in-crowd... I have complete faith that they will
> deliver,
> > because they already have. ORI has delivered jack all except promises and
> > chaos.
> >
> > Maybe - just MAYBE - this thread lays bare what the community will be
> > getting with "the slate" of candidates. A whole bunch of "Thee, but not
> for
> > me" type of leadership, and a whole bunch of empty guarantees.
> >
> > -Dave, KG5CCI
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:17 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Sorry you feel that way. The unfortunate fact is that AMSAT has already
> > > been judged by its outside funding organizations, and is going to have
> a
> > > hard time surmounting that without a major change in leadership. It
> isn't
> > > going to matter much for you to stick with leadership who can't can't
> > build
> > > and launch enough satellites. That is what it is coming to. Fixing that
> > is
> > > the only agenda.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 11:18 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
> > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > My final word. At least some people on your agendized team, for the
> > take
> > > > over of AMSAT, I hold or have held in high respect. That is, at least
> > > until
> > > > they allowed themselves to be associated with this travesty of ego. I
> > now
> > > > question their judgement And motivation. That?s on you. TEAM politics
> > > isn?t
> > > > what this is about. Character, track record, and how I have seen
> > > candidates
> > > > treat Me and others is how I will vote.
> > > >
> > > > I am highly disappointed that this has turned into a we / they
> > campaign.
> > > > The organization is better than that. Regardless of the outcome of
> this
> > > > election, I judge AMSAT and it reputation will be damaged moving
> > forward.
> > > >
> > > > EMike, AA8EM
> > > >
> > > > EMike McCardel, AA8EM
> > > > Past Senior Editor AMSAT News Service
> > > > Past AMSAT-NA VP Educational Relations
> > > > Former ARRL, Ohio Section, Affiliated Club Coordinator
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On Aug 19, 2020, at 1:11 PM, Michelle Thompson <
> > > > mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > ?
> > > > > You might have missed the part where all of the information in this
> > > > particular CJ request is already publicly available. It's already
> > > > transparent.
> > > > >
> > > > > The submitted form itself is not usually published. That's the only
> > > > restriction we are talking about.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is fundamentally different from refusing to allow Directors
> > access
> > > > to corporate records unless they sign NDAs, then showing up without
> the
> > > > actual NDAs, then continuing to deny access to records and
> > communications
> > > > after everyone signed a blank form that purported to be a signature
> > form
> > > > for these alleged NDAs. Some of which have yet to be produced and you
> > as
> > > a
> > > > member are not allowed to know about.
> > > > >
> > > > > Your attack is off base and inaccurate. I'm sorry you feel the way
> > you
> > > > do. This work means that things can get dramatically better for the
> > > > organization in highly visible and measurable ways.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Michelle W5NYV
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 9:33 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
> > > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> > > > >> Just an observation. Among all of this talk, during the past BOoD
> > > > election
> > > > >> cycle, about Transparency, I find it amazing that the excuse of
> the
> > > > Lawyers
> > > > >> or others don't think it wise to disclose information can even be
> an
> > > > >> argument.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Michelle Wrote:
> > > > >> "Unless, of course, this  Information contained in CJ requests is
> > not
> > > > >> usually made public. The law firm would not file it unless it was
> > > > presented
> > > > >> to the State Department as private and confidential. This advice
> was
> > > > >> because virtually all requests are for proprietary programs and
> > > > products.
> > > > >> Sticking out in this regard, by doing something they advised
> > strongly
> > > > >> against, would not work to our
> > > > >> advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on
> the
> > > > wrong
> > > > >> hill.  as an admission that NDA's are indeed important and not
> just
> > > > >> convenient."
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Is this not the very essence of Non-Disclosure Agreements? Without
> > the
> > > > >> transparency which seems to be lacking here this comes across as a
> > > > simple
> > > > >> political stunt. Enough already.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I am not voting for any TEAM, I'm putting my trust in individuals
> > > whom I
> > > > >> respect and trust and have no agenda other than serving AMSAT to
> > keep
> > > > >> amateur radio in space.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> EMike, AA8EM
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> E. Michael McCardel, AA8EM, former KC8YLD
> > > > >> Former Senior Editor for AMSAT News Service,
> > > > >> Past VP Educational Relations for AMSAT-NA
> > > > >> Former Ohio Section Affiliated Club Coordinator
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> > available
> > > > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > > > Opinions expressed
> > > > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> > views
> > > > of AMSAT-NA.
> > > > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > > > program!
> > > > >> Subscription settings:
> > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> > > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > > Opinions
> > > > expressed
> > > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> > of
> > > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > > program!
> > > > Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions
> > > expressed
> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From bruce at perens.com  Wed Aug 19 22:14:30 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 15:14:30 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c_vMrkFKBnUO9f86JqWb5q2=2Ro5BqcBEKXhMBgXoGtVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2VA8K-TWiq6cnOHVVNRu8bSup+yOReSHcoF-t4jWkdgQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BDB7F3B4-5DE9-483B-8EF7-4D117A8D25B7@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtPNcQ00gY346GybPkdQOoYpNKnzkJjfVjd+R2EjBXGig@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_vMrkFKBnUO9f86JqWb5q2=2Ro5BqcBEKXhMBgXoGtVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOst56k1XG9aK+5kQ9ERK+k84D4QNuFVd_95vw0uXuXnEw@mail.gmail.com>

If we can't show you this application, I think I could make one myself
without making use of attorneys, without even involving ORI, and it would
be possible to show that one. I have as much right to ask for a commodity
jurisdiction ruling as ORI. The really important information in the
application originated with me, not ORI or it's attorneys, and is part of
an ITAR strategy that I started work on long before ORI's formation. At
present, it is publicly displayed on the ORI web site, but I intend to put
it in a compliance manual I am working on.

That might be a good idea if I am to convince colleges to run this
strategy. So, I might do it. However, I am not convinced that I need to
spend my time on convincing anyone at AMSAT. At some point it becomes less
effort to simply let AMSAT die and carry on the work elsewhere. That
decision would come on about September 17. And yes, I think AMSAT would
eventually die if it continued to not have a viable ITAR strategy and every
other organization did.

There is also the fact that, with respect for the polite ones, the people
who are arguing on the mailing list are not in a position to set ITAR
policy at AMSAT, and I would hope that by now everyone has submitted their
ballot. So, this discussion might be moot at this point.

    Thanks

    Bruce







On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 1:42 PM Joseph Armbruster <
josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:

> Bruce,
>
>
> Yet another well played detraction from my original point... That the
> forms submitted to the DDTC tell a story and contain all of the details of
> the claim... details, which none of us on the -bb have been able to read
> for ourselves, because they have NOT been shared publicly.
>
>
> AMSAT is having a difficult time navigating right now, because of your
> groups smoke and mirrors.  It's the only negative traffic on the -bb.  I do
> feel bad for AMSAT, but only because of that.  I think the leadership has
> been doing a reasonably good job, but they don't take the time to reach out
> to the public and... brag enough about their accomplishments.  Honestly, I
> think PR is their only failure.  That's the only reason you and your group
> can say the things you do on here, there are a lot of mis-informed
> members.  Speaking of launching satellites... How many satellites have you
> been involved with building and launching in the last, say, 15 years,
> through any organization, while AMSAT was hard at work?
>
>
> I'm sticking with the people that have produced results and I maintain
> that a vote for Hammond, Paige and Stoetzer will continue to push AMSAT in
> the best direction.  Whether or not a lot of people on the -bb can see it
> or not, is one thing.  I sure hope they do.  Talk is cheap, it's easy for
> someone to come on here and bash other peoples hard work in a couple lines
> in an email, and sound honorable and noble and hide behind false-claims.
> That... is unfortunate.  All i'm trying to do on this thread is ask for the
> documentation that was submitted to the DDTC... that's not an abnormal or
> extraordinary request, give the open source nature of it all.  Michelle did
> say she would try to release the INPUT form... i'll be standing by.
>
>
> Joseph Armbruster
>
> KJ4JIO
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 3:46 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> Sorry you feel that way. The unfortunate fact is that AMSAT has already
>> been judged by its outside funding organizations, and is going to have a
>> hard time surmounting that without a major change in leadership. It isn't
>> going to matter much for you to stick with leadership who can't can't
>> build
>> and launch enough satellites. That is what it is coming to. Fixing that is
>> the only agenda.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 11:18 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>> > My final word. At least some people on your agendized team, for the take
>> > over of AMSAT, I hold or have held in high respect. That is, at least
>> until
>> > they allowed themselves to be associated with this travesty of ego. I
>> now
>> > question their judgement And motivation. That?s on you. TEAM politics
>> isn?t
>> > what this is about. Character, track record, and how I have seen
>> candidates
>> > treat Me and others is how I will vote.
>> >
>> > I am highly disappointed that this has turned into a we / they campaign.
>> > The organization is better than that. Regardless of the outcome of this
>> > election, I judge AMSAT and it reputation will be damaged moving
>> forward.
>> >
>> > EMike, AA8EM
>> >
>> > EMike McCardel, AA8EM
>> > Past Senior Editor AMSAT News Service
>> > Past AMSAT-NA VP Educational Relations
>> > Former ARRL, Ohio Section, Affiliated Club Coordinator
>> >
>> >
>> > > On Aug 19, 2020, at 1:11 PM, Michelle Thompson <
>> > mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > ?
>> > > You might have missed the part where all of the information in this
>> > particular CJ request is already publicly available. It's already
>> > transparent.
>> > >
>> > > The submitted form itself is not usually published. That's the only
>> > restriction we are talking about.
>> > >
>> > > This is fundamentally different from refusing to allow Directors
>> access
>> > to corporate records unless they sign NDAs, then showing up without the
>> > actual NDAs, then continuing to deny access to records and
>> communications
>> > after everyone signed a blank form that purported to be a signature form
>> > for these alleged NDAs. Some of which have yet to be produced and you
>> as a
>> > member are not allowed to know about.
>> > >
>> > > Your attack is off base and inaccurate. I'm sorry you feel the way you
>> > do. This work means that things can get dramatically better for the
>> > organization in highly visible and measurable ways.
>> > >
>> > > -Michelle W5NYV
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 9:33 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
>> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> > >> Just an observation. Among all of this talk, during the past BOoD
>> > election
>> > >> cycle, about Transparency, I find it amazing that the excuse of the
>> > Lawyers
>> > >> or others don't think it wise to disclose information can even be an
>> > >> argument.
>> > >>
>> > >> Michelle Wrote:
>> > >> "Unless, of course, this  Information contained in CJ requests is not
>> > >> usually made public. The law firm would not file it unless it was
>> > presented
>> > >> to the State Department as private and confidential. This advice was
>> > >> because virtually all requests are for proprietary programs and
>> > products.
>> > >> Sticking out in this regard, by doing something they advised strongly
>> > >> against, would not work to our
>> > >> advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the
>> > wrong
>> > >> hill.  as an admission that NDA's are indeed important and not just
>> > >> convenient."
>> > >>
>> > >> Is this not the very essence of Non-Disclosure Agreements? Without
>> the
>> > >> transparency which seems to be lacking here this comes across as a
>> > simple
>> > >> political stunt. Enough already.
>> > >>
>> > >> I am not voting for any TEAM, I'm putting my trust in individuals
>> whom I
>> > >> respect and trust and have no agenda other than serving AMSAT to keep
>> > >> amateur radio in space.
>> > >>
>> > >> EMike, AA8EM
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> E. Michael McCardel, AA8EM, former KC8YLD
>> > >> Former Senior Editor for AMSAT News Service,
>> > >> Past VP Educational Relations for AMSAT-NA
>> > >> Former Ohio Section Affiliated Club Coordinator
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>> available
>> > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> > Opinions expressed
>> > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> > of AMSAT-NA.
>> > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> > program!
>> > >> Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions
>> > expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> > AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>

-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)

From sjdevience at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 22:24:45 2020
From: sjdevience at gmail.com (Stephen DeVience)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 17:24:45 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Some benefits of open source sats that I envision
Message-ID: <CAMPfQQCzwvVQB7Z==HubYHEYq+MBBjE2S5ZaBriaJN8zxmAnkA@mail.gmail.com>

I think this is great news, but with our convoluted government, how big is
the impact of this determination? If I take this design, add my own
modifications, and publish those (keeping it open source), is it still
covered by the determination, or do I have to apply again for my new
version? How much modification is acceptable? We still need to find out how
much will be restricted by EAR. I agree with some commenters that it would
be nice to see a summary of exactly what's covered and what's not.

I'm glad ORI is pushing the government on this issue and trying to get the
landscape cleared up. It reminds me of the issues the cryptography people
had years ago.

-Stephen, N8URE

From bruce at perens.com  Wed Aug 19 22:44:14 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 15:44:14 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Satellite Work Determined to be Free of
	ITAR
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c-oM9GgPbg_WjiSEsni5rL6SX2Mezymw2eVXBx1sVrVTw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Xq81o8dF+ZxEqTBBiziw6RDiHfDfiC94TeOKN-v=9vJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_ov12dpaeP3QdTPZ9_QDBbNMdncOVEC_APvSoMfzp17g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XJXBNXj9Wwy_B7QfsKZ0-MkHHzxhBx=OckUbMM_QZu2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-VK-+XATBQ-EexkfnQLm81RxhQkd_AwYCudiMHjT1gCA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2URcX=hdNmtFfb55J7GrsqLDkwzKp1HM=bXWm3+7vYvAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_jsYk+jeD7Ps3hQWhwH2eRpASGCzF9S2EqR7RH4yVnzA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2WOWCbnVYhG4A_vaan-MPhGqp9bQpVsjG5H2hHxCPoLqQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_=H6nTEGpAVwCzmO5u7kCexxTtGnPh6zT1wMbn8k08ZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XfdLSUwmxNfaVe5zkKS_WrvVHzUcBRuokD8jz8u=R9iw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c9_8tXut-PHrWCDZo6rbJAMvKFrFpt=wr2Xu81FSvj_7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XxkS5ZbpmRRr7ZderchgEGM8oiY-CtcVWbEpYybqSJCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-e4ZwEMXA+mcqU=aT4bFc8U6RXZPtFjigB8LDckRHsWg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XvfBfBGrFy_bsq1PKN0Qp45d2052s+=EZk65D5BJTg7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-oM9GgPbg_WjiSEsni5rL6SX2Mezymw2eVXBx1sVrVTw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOtHNxjnrbcXiv=4jtkL=3_a5Rggj-==nxG5TxZtUwLYRA@mail.gmail.com>

Joseph wrote:
> I would argue that it should have been provided to the AMSAT -bb
community, back in February, BEFORE being submitted to the DDTC

AMSAT was asked to participate and did not respond. I personally tried to
get ARRL to participate, and unfortunately getting board items on the
agenda and voted upon takes a long time, and they were tied up with having
fired their CEO and deciding how to go forward.

    Thanks

    Bruce

From johnbrier at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 22:49:55 2020
From: johnbrier at gmail.com (John Brier)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 18:49:55 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c_C78Ai-ivt4NPXDsgdOP+0xmAb87-sMFEwHfS7G9vRmQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2VA8K-TWiq6cnOHVVNRu8bSup+yOReSHcoF-t4jWkdgQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BDB7F3B4-5DE9-483B-8EF7-4D117A8D25B7@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtPNcQ00gY346GybPkdQOoYpNKnzkJjfVjd+R2EjBXGig@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyXSR3UUb+GwTqV6mcfzJT29SxtQwSfR4+yboBMfd8wZ+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALn0fKMUgmMZYnsLCZX5JMW9z_npWgHgaMWP6WQGp0W_KcmHfg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_C78Ai-ivt4NPXDsgdOP+0xmAb87-sMFEwHfS7G9vRmQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALn0fKPwbpuTS5SRt2f9aaRzahO7R2nqLkUJHfr8j9TqYurKjg@mail.gmail.com>

"This whole thing is functionally equivalent to some couple hiring an
attorney to help fill out immigration forms and then some family member
comes up to them and asks "hey can i see how you filled out section X?"

You don't trust Michelle so this comparison is not reasonable.

73, John Brier KG4AKV

On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 18:00 Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com>
wrote:

> John Brier,
>
> Anyone on the -bb can see right through this John, by simply examining the
> submission form from the DDTC themselves.  Anyone on the -bb can register
> with the DDTC Right Now and submit the same form for some other request...
> and, send me, you and everyone else on the-bb a copy of the forms before,
> after, or during the submission.  The DDTC does not require it to be kept a
> secret.
>
> And, an attorney was hired... whoopty doo!  Did whoever is working with
> the attorney sign over all right, title and interest in the form submission
> to the attorney!?  And if-so, do you really trust people that think having
> to ask an attorney for permission to handle their own information is a
> great idea!?!  Just the thought of being pigeon holed into working with a
> single attorney or firm and having to check with them to get a release
> signed from them, before releasing information like this, is frightening to
> me!  It's not like this is a criminal defense case...  This whole thing is
> functionally equivalent to some couple hiring an attorney to help fill out
> immigration forms and then some family member comes up to them and asks
> "hey can i see how you filled out section X?"... and then, the couple turns
> around and says "Oh, no... I have to ask my attorney for a release before I
> let you see it".... seriously ?!!?
>
> Why, in all humanity... would you ever give an attorney leverage over your
> documents / information ?!?!
>
> She's going to be hard pressed to find anyone else that has publicized
> their DDTC submissions.  But this is entirely besides the point and
> irrelevant, and YOU ALL KNOW IT.  Most companies have a reason to protect
> the development of their (or others) defense articles.  There are no
> defense articles or other IP to protect here, as-far-as-we-all-know?!!?!?
> Why does an organization focused on transparent open source development of
> amateur satellite technology care about protecting this submission to the
> DDTC?  That's a more critical question.  Why wasn't the DDTC submission
> provided to the -bb community before being sent out?  So we could know what
> was being requested and why?
>
>
> Attach, select file, send already,
> Joseph Armbruster
> KJ4JIO
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 5:34 PM John Brier via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> This is not a double standard or a lack of transparency. Their lawyer
>> requested they not release certain information and they are doing as
>> requested.
>>
>> Open source software companies work with security embargos on
>> vulnerabilities, and NDAs on prerelease hardware all the time. They keep
>> specific things secret for as long as they have to and then open it up as
>> soon as they can.
>>
>> Michelle even said she would double check with the lawyers to see if they
>> can release it. She is also looking into whether there are examples of
>> this
>> form being published online by other orgs. She is not saying flat out no
>> because I have a right to.
>>
>> 73, John Brier KG4AKV
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 16:21 David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I'm sorry - but this thread is absolutely hilarious, and the last reply
>> by
>> > Mr. Perens is the cherry on top of the stupidity cake.
>> >
>> > Michelle and her comrades have spouted all about transparency and
>> openness
>> > for the past year, but when they're presented with an opportunity to be
>> > transparent and open with their competing organizations they play the
>> 'Our
>> > Lawyers said not to share card'. When presented with their hypocrisy
>> they
>> > retreat to the completely expected position of politicians everywhere by
>> > claiming that while AMSAT should make everything open, ORI has a right
>> to
>> > keep things secret, because what they're doing is special and different.
>> > And then - amazingly - still have the audacity to somehow justify their
>> > position by claiming AMSAT isn't launching satellites? Unless I'm
>> mistaken,
>> > ORI/Perens Inc. have launched precisely *ZERO* birds ever - AMSAT has
>> put 4
>> > birds in orbit since I've been a member, and has provided parts and
>> > guidance to countless 3rd parties to launch their own birds. They have a
>> > realistic plan to get more birds into the orbits operators want despite
>> not
>> > being part of the in-crowd... I have complete faith that they will
>> deliver,
>> > because they already have. ORI has delivered jack all except promises
>> and
>> > chaos.
>> >
>> > Maybe - just MAYBE - this thread lays bare what the community will be
>> > getting with "the slate" of candidates. A whole bunch of "Thee, but not
>> for
>> > me" type of leadership, and a whole bunch of empty guarantees.
>> >
>> > -Dave, KG5CCI
>> >
>> > On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:17 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
>> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Sorry you feel that way. The unfortunate fact is that AMSAT has
>> already
>> > > been judged by its outside funding organizations, and is going to
>> have a
>> > > hard time surmounting that without a major change in leadership. It
>> isn't
>> > > going to matter much for you to stick with leadership who can't can't
>> > build
>> > > and launch enough satellites. That is what it is coming to. Fixing
>> that
>> > is
>> > > the only agenda.
>> > >
>> > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 11:18 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
>> > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > My final word. At least some people on your agendized team, for the
>> > take
>> > > > over of AMSAT, I hold or have held in high respect. That is, at
>> least
>> > > until
>> > > > they allowed themselves to be associated with this travesty of ego.
>> I
>> > now
>> > > > question their judgement And motivation. That?s on you. TEAM
>> politics
>> > > isn?t
>> > > > what this is about. Character, track record, and how I have seen
>> > > candidates
>> > > > treat Me and others is how I will vote.
>> > > >
>> > > > I am highly disappointed that this has turned into a we / they
>> > campaign.
>> > > > The organization is better than that. Regardless of the outcome of
>> this
>> > > > election, I judge AMSAT and it reputation will be damaged moving
>> > forward.
>> > > >
>> > > > EMike, AA8EM
>> > > >
>> > > > EMike McCardel, AA8EM
>> > > > Past Senior Editor AMSAT News Service
>> > > > Past AMSAT-NA VP Educational Relations
>> > > > Former ARRL, Ohio Section, Affiliated Club Coordinator
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > On Aug 19, 2020, at 1:11 PM, Michelle Thompson <
>> > > > mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ?
>> > > > > You might have missed the part where all of the information in
>> this
>> > > > particular CJ request is already publicly available. It's already
>> > > > transparent.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > The submitted form itself is not usually published. That's the
>> only
>> > > > restriction we are talking about.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > This is fundamentally different from refusing to allow Directors
>> > access
>> > > > to corporate records unless they sign NDAs, then showing up without
>> the
>> > > > actual NDAs, then continuing to deny access to records and
>> > communications
>> > > > after everyone signed a blank form that purported to be a signature
>> > form
>> > > > for these alleged NDAs. Some of which have yet to be produced and
>> you
>> > as
>> > > a
>> > > > member are not allowed to know about.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Your attack is off base and inaccurate. I'm sorry you feel the way
>> > you
>> > > > do. This work means that things can get dramatically better for the
>> > > > organization in highly visible and measurable ways.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -Michelle W5NYV
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 9:33 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
>> > > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> > > > >> Just an observation. Among all of this talk, during the past BOoD
>> > > > election
>> > > > >> cycle, about Transparency, I find it amazing that the excuse of
>> the
>> > > > Lawyers
>> > > > >> or others don't think it wise to disclose information can even
>> be an
>> > > > >> argument.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Michelle Wrote:
>> > > > >> "Unless, of course, this  Information contained in CJ requests is
>> > not
>> > > > >> usually made public. The law firm would not file it unless it was
>> > > > presented
>> > > > >> to the State Department as private and confidential. This advice
>> was
>> > > > >> because virtually all requests are for proprietary programs and
>> > > > products.
>> > > > >> Sticking out in this regard, by doing something they advised
>> > strongly
>> > > > >> against, would not work to our
>> > > > >> advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on
>> the
>> > > > wrong
>> > > > >> hill.  as an admission that NDA's are indeed important and not
>> just
>> > > > >> convenient."
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Is this not the very essence of Non-Disclosure Agreements?
>> Without
>> > the
>> > > > >> transparency which seems to be lacking here this comes across as
>> a
>> > > > simple
>> > > > >> political stunt. Enough already.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> I am not voting for any TEAM, I'm putting my trust in individuals
>> > > whom I
>> > > > >> respect and trust and have no agenda other than serving AMSAT to
>> > keep
>> > > > >> amateur radio in space.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> EMike, AA8EM
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> E. Michael McCardel, AA8EM, former KC8YLD
>> > > > >> Former Senior Editor for AMSAT News Service,
>> > > > >> Past VP Educational Relations for AMSAT-NA
>> > > > >> Former Ohio Section Affiliated Club Coordinator
>> > > > >> _______________________________________________
>> > > > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>> > available
>> > > > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> > > > Opinions expressed
>> > > > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>> > views
>> > > > of AMSAT-NA.
>> > > > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> > > > program!
>> > > > >> Subscription settings:
>> > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>> available
>> > > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> > > Opinions
>> > > > expressed
>> > > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>> views
>> > of
>> > > > AMSAT-NA.
>> > > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> > > program!
>> > > > Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> > Opinions
>> > > expressed
>> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of
>> > > AMSAT-NA.
>> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> > program!
>> > > Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions
>> > expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> > AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>

From gp_ab5r at outlook.com  Wed Aug 19 22:57:51 2020
From: gp_ab5r at outlook.com (Gerald Payton)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 22:57:51 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Board Election Candidates
Message-ID: <SN6PR11MB27526772DF55D3CE879A2AD9D05D0@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

As a recent (re-hashed) member re-joining too late for a vote, is it possible to see a list of who is renewals or new candidates?

Using an OLD phrase, I am FLABERGASSED with all this back and forth!

Having said that,
Jerry AB5R


From mccardelm at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 23:00:09 2020
From: mccardelm at gmail.com (E.Mike McCardel)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 19:00:09 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOst56k1XG9aK+5kQ9ERK+k84D4QNuFVd_95vw0uXuXnEw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK2MWOst56k1XG9aK+5kQ9ERK+k84D4QNuFVd_95vw0uXuXnEw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41C3AE3A-C025-4157-BF9B-1C26884E9ED1@gmail.com>

Perhaps nothing indicts the agenda Of ?The Team? than This quote from Bruce Perens.
?I am not convinced that I need to spend my time on convincing anyone at AMSAT. At some point it becomes less effort to simply let AMSAT die and carry on the work elsewhere.?

EMike McCardel, AA8EM
Past Senior Editor AMSAT News Service
Past AMSAT-NA VP Educational Relations
Former ARRL, Ohio Section, Affiliated Club Coordinator


> On Aug 19, 2020, at 6:14 PM, Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
> 
> I am not convinced that I need to spend my time on convincing anyone at AMSAT. At some point it becomes less effort to simply let AMSAT die and carry on the work elsewhere.

From bruce at perens.com  Wed Aug 19 23:18:49 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 16:18:49 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards
In-Reply-To: <41C3AE3A-C025-4157-BF9B-1C26884E9ED1@gmail.com>
References: <CAK2MWOst56k1XG9aK+5kQ9ERK+k84D4QNuFVd_95vw0uXuXnEw@mail.gmail.com>
	<41C3AE3A-C025-4157-BF9B-1C26884E9ED1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOs2-5hgGpDP_=nRM=BuMHJUr79WtNuUDpc0943hKDLjNw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 4:00 PM E.Mike McCardel <mccardelm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Perhaps nothing indicts the agenda Of ?The Team? than This quote from
> Bruce Perens.


Hm. Should I remind you that you wrote that your previous email would be
your last word?

I am not standing for election and the folks I have endorsed in this or the
previous election are not beholden to me. Just ask Brennan

I don't actually see that there are many other people around who originate
policies like this (or Open Source, or No-Code). One can't get things like
that done by asking permission. I am thus not on any "Team". It will be my
personal decision where to carry out my work.

    Thanks

    Bruce

From gp_ab5r at outlook.com  Wed Aug 19 23:40:51 2020
From: gp_ab5r at outlook.com (Gerald Payton)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 23:40:51 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] List of Board Candidates?
Message-ID: <SN6PR11MB2752FD764C893DF648F343C2D05D0@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

As a recent (re-hashed) member re-joining too late for a vote, is it possible to see a list of who is renewals or new candidates?

Using an OLD phrase, I am FLABERGASSED with all this back and forth!

Having said that,
Jerry AB5R


From mccardelm at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 23:53:48 2020
From: mccardelm at gmail.com (E.Mike McCardel)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 19:53:48 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOs2-5hgGpDP_=nRM=BuMHJUr79WtNuUDpc0943hKDLjNw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK2MWOs2-5hgGpDP_=nRM=BuMHJUr79WtNuUDpc0943hKDLjNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1066BC0E-F336-4DE1-9262-C0C21445C844@gmail.com>

Bruce,
Sorry to disappoint about reengaging, Bruce, I couldn?t let that pass. I?m not running either.
What I find most nauseating it that you and Michelle are campaigning the hardest for ?The Team?. She is not a candidate either.
Of the 6 candidates 5 could easily stand on their own. They really don?t need to part the endorsement. In fact I can?t truly determine if all three of the endorsed candidates actually asked to be lumped together. Why not simply run on your own merit instead of forming a party with an agenda.
I just don?t understand!
What or who truly is ?The Team?? Dothe endorsees endorse their endorsers. Were they handpicked? Did they collude together (or with help from others) before they ran or were they simply caught up in ?the endorsement?? I?m hoping the latter is the case because I really like two of the three personally.
The strongest organizations are diverse ones who argue disagree compromise then get over it. 
In my working with several AMSAT boards I?ve seen this actually in play on many occasions, first. I personally have had strong disagreements with board members and officers, but when all is said an done I got back to work and worked hard to promote the good of the organization, Even if I weren?t in full agreement. That is how it is suppose to be
Only since the last board election the membership had Seen this model break down. Why is that, Bruce? What is the one difference. Two board members who can?t or won?t cooperate or the rest of the board changing their stripes?
In all my experiences I have seen that the absolute worse board members, trustees, commissioners etc. are those with a gripe. 

Now I?m done!
EMike, AA8EM

EMike McCardel, AA8EM
Past Senior Editor AMSAT News Service
Past AMSAT-NA VP Educational Relations
Former ARRL, Ohio Section, Affiliated Club Coordinator


> On Aug 19, 2020, at 7:19 PM, Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 4:00 PM E.Mike McCardel <mccardelm at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Perhaps nothing indicts the agenda Of ?The Team? than This quote from Bruce Perens.
> 
> Hm. Should I remind you that you wrote that your previous email would be your last word?
> 
> I am not standing for election and the folks I have endorsed in this or the previous election are not beholden to me. Just ask Brennan
> 
> I don't actually see that there are many other people around who originate policies like this (or Open Source, or No-Code). One can't get things like that done by asking permission. I am thus not on any "Team". It will be my personal decision where to carry out my work.
> 
>     Thanks
> 
>     Bruce

From gp_ab5r at outlook.com  Wed Aug 19 23:57:55 2020
From: gp_ab5r at outlook.com (Gerald Payton)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 23:57:55 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Election Candidate List?
Message-ID: <SN6PR11MB2752F9F0EB753D8B2D733DC9D05D0@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

As a recent (re-hashed) member re-joining too late for a vote, is it possible to see a list of who is renewals or new candidates?

Using an OLD phrase, I am FLABERGASSED with all this back and forth!

Having said that,
Jerry AB5R


From jeff30339 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 00:15:48 2020
From: jeff30339 at gmail.com (Jeff Johns)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 19:15:48 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards
In-Reply-To: <00af01d67679$a1c23cb0$e546b610$@charter.net>
References: <00af01d67679$a1c23cb0$e546b610$@charter.net>
Message-ID: <56293C99-D588-4124-B9B1-1DE1169C175A@gmail.com>

There shouldn?t be any ?scuffing? on this issue. An AMSAT volunteer member has made strides on something that nobody else within AMSAT has done and people want to attack her over it rather than celebrating successes. Legacy leadership is quick to pat themselves on the back yet they, along with many members, can?t even be civil enough to say ?good job?.  All of this could have been done under the AMSAT banner but nobody from AMSAT would answer Michelle?s letters or proposals. I?ll ask again. Who else within AMSAT is writing grant requests and working towards these types of goals? The silence in answering these types of questions is deafening. However, those running against me for election will promise members an HEO satellite. Given current laws, rules and regulations there won?t be an HEO satellite launched by AMSAT-NA until situations such as these that Michelle and ORI are working to fix. I think it?s funny that some of my challengers are running on a platform of an HEO satellite when they have not been able to accomplish that during their term in office. Going forward, without significant change, AMSAT will be lucky to get LEO launches, much less an HEO satellite. Once again, Michelle and ORI, thank you for the work you are doing. I?m sorry that nobody from within the legacy leadership of AMSAT will thank you or celebrate with you. It?s quite telling of the current state of affairs within AMSAT. 

Jeff WE4B 
http://we4bravo.com

> On Aug 19, 2020, at 5:39 PM, Ted Krempa <k7trkradio at charter.net> wrote:
> 
> ?Yep, Jeff....and all this 'school yard' scuffling is , for sure, bound to grow the AMSAT membership....I mean, who wouldn't want to pay $40+ to have to read this nonsense every  day !!!  
> 
> Not Me
> 73, Ted
> K7TRK
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB
> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2020 11:57 AM
> To: AMSAT
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards
> 
> ?What does Michelle, an AMSAT volunteer and Board member, making an announcement about something she raised funds for and accomplished that can possibly benefit AMSAT have to do with politics? 
> 
> I?m not an EE or an ITAR/EAR expert but what I see is an enthusiastic volunteer that is talking the talk and walking the walk and doing so in an attempt to help AMSAT and anyone else wanting to build amateur satellites. 
> 
> What is anyone from within AMSAT doing in the same regards? Who is writing grant requests? Who is working with legal teams (not the teams used to muffle new Board members) to work on these carve outs? Maybe it is happening within AMSAT but getting any news out of AMSAT is frustrating for members. 
> 
> Michelle says that she reached out to AMSAT at the Symposium and via other methods but didn?t get any replies from within the organization? Why not? Why isn?t AMSAT embracing someone that is obviously enthusiastic and has the ability to raise funds on her own. Why isn?t AMSAT using these synergies within the organization?
> 
> I just think it?s sad to see so many basically attacking Michelle for being proud of an accomplishment. An accomplishment that AMSAT could have claimed under the AMSAT banner had they been willing to work with her. Why is there such a fear from legacy leadership of new thoughts, ideas and methods? 
> 
> We should all be thanking Michelle for working on this and encouraging and helping rather than berating her. If an outsider where to look at this, would they really want to volunteer for AMSAT or would they fear they would be attacked for attempting to do great things? 
> 
> Some of those running for office against me are promising the world an HEO satellite. Seems to me that we will need the work that Michelle is freely doing and donating to the world to make that happen under current laws, rules and regulations. 
> 
> Even though I may not be an ITAR expert, I can appreciate the fact that Michelle has worked on her accomplishment and is freely sharing it with AMSAT. Is it really that difficult for people to just say ?thank you?? It?s not hard for me so, Michelle, thank you for donating your time and talents to help further amateur satellites and for helping to keep amateur radio in space. There are those in the community that can recognize your efforts and appreciate them. 
> 
> Jeff WE4B 
> http://we4bravo.com
> 
>> On Aug 19, 2020, at 1:20 PM, E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> 
>> ?My final word. At least some people on your agendized team, for the take over of AMSAT, I hold or have held in high respect. That is, at least until they allowed themselves to be associated with this travesty of ego. I now question their judgement And motivation. That?s on you. TEAM politics isn?t what this is about. Character, track record, and how I have seen candidates treat Me and others is how I will vote.
>> 
>> I am highly disappointed that this has turned into a we / they campaign. The organization is better than that. Regardless of the outcome of this election, I judge AMSAT and it reputation will be damaged moving forward.
>> 
>> EMike, AA8EM
>> 
>> EMike McCardel, AA8EM
>> Past Senior Editor AMSAT News Service
>> Past AMSAT-NA VP Educational Relations
>> Former ARRL, Ohio Section, Affiliated Club Coordinator
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 

From bruce at perens.com  Thu Aug 20 00:15:56 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 17:15:56 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards
In-Reply-To: <1066BC0E-F336-4DE1-9262-C0C21445C844@gmail.com>
References: <CAK2MWOs2-5hgGpDP_=nRM=BuMHJUr79WtNuUDpc0943hKDLjNw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1066BC0E-F336-4DE1-9262-C0C21445C844@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOvsd5sJ8R_PPjyM9BVg9h+1+Ay94pT-uD7GQcTaoc=nnw@mail.gmail.com>

Well, very sorry that you guys feel that way, Mike and Dave.

I expect to have some news that will change the discussion entirely. I
don't think there's much point in continuing with this until then.

    Thanks

    Bruce

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 00:35:32 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 20:35:32 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ridiculous reactions
In-Reply-To: <c525805c-19bf-f9c6-43e4-0bcf69f4bb77@charter.net>
References: <c525805c-19bf-f9c6-43e4-0bcf69f4bb77@charter.net>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c-uYd4q0BXeJ9-75VkHXwiR4+C1d7Wa6aaZe4uAqFJp+A@mail.gmail.com>

note: i'm mobile.

All that i've asked for is to see what was in the actual request.  The
determination letter only has meaning, within the context of the request.
This is not tearing anything down, it's requesting information to determine
what the claim to success really means.

Joe, KJ4JIO

On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 7:36 PM Michael Tondee via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> We have potentially great news about ITAR and all certain people can
> think to do is try to tear it down. Could it be that some people don't
> want AMSAT to be out from under ITAR because it removes a convenient
> excuse for the lack of ability to get anything consequential done
> towards launching an HEO satellite? The  premature negative reactions
> are ridiculous.
>
> 73,
>
> Michael, W4HIJ
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 00:41:30 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 20:41:30 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards
In-Reply-To: <CALn0fKPwbpuTS5SRt2f9aaRzahO7R2nqLkUJHfr8j9TqYurKjg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2VA8K-TWiq6cnOHVVNRu8bSup+yOReSHcoF-t4jWkdgQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BDB7F3B4-5DE9-483B-8EF7-4D117A8D25B7@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtPNcQ00gY346GybPkdQOoYpNKnzkJjfVjd+R2EjBXGig@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyXSR3UUb+GwTqV6mcfzJT29SxtQwSfR4+yboBMfd8wZ+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALn0fKMUgmMZYnsLCZX5JMW9z_npWgHgaMWP6WQGp0W_KcmHfg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_C78Ai-ivt4NPXDsgdOP+0xmAb87-sMFEwHfS7G9vRmQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALn0fKPwbpuTS5SRt2f9aaRzahO7R2nqLkUJHfr8j9TqYurKjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c8CFRooRDjJFgoBe0Hd5fmTTMO6k+6ev646PtCk72EHVA@mail.gmail.com>

note: i'm mobile.

Trust is not demanded, it's earned.  Just produce the full request and show
everyone on the -bb that it supports the claim.  It seems like a no brainer
to me...

Joe, KJ4JIO


On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 6:50 PM John Brier <johnbrier at gmail.com> wrote:

> "This whole thing is functionally equivalent to some couple hiring an
> attorney to help fill out immigration forms and then some family member
> comes up to them and asks "hey can i see how you filled out section X?"
>
> You don't trust Michelle so this comparison is not reasonable.
>
> 73, John Brier KG4AKV
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 18:00 Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> John Brier,
>>
>> Anyone on the -bb can see right through this John, by simply examining
>> the submission form from the DDTC themselves.  Anyone on the -bb can
>> register with the DDTC Right Now and submit the same form for some other
>> request... and, send me, you and everyone else on the-bb a copy of the
>> forms before, after, or during the submission.  The DDTC does not require
>> it to be kept a secret.
>>
>> And, an attorney was hired... whoopty doo!  Did whoever is working with
>> the attorney sign over all right, title and interest in the form submission
>> to the attorney!?  And if-so, do you really trust people that think having
>> to ask an attorney for permission to handle their own information is a
>> great idea!?!  Just the thought of being pigeon holed into working with a
>> single attorney or firm and having to check with them to get a release
>> signed from them, before releasing information like this, is frightening to
>> me!  It's not like this is a criminal defense case...  This whole thing is
>> functionally equivalent to some couple hiring an attorney to help fill out
>> immigration forms and then some family member comes up to them and asks
>> "hey can i see how you filled out section X?"... and then, the couple turns
>> around and says "Oh, no... I have to ask my attorney for a release before I
>> let you see it".... seriously ?!!?
>>
>> Why, in all humanity... would you ever give an attorney leverage over
>> your documents / information ?!?!
>>
>> She's going to be hard pressed to find anyone else that has publicized
>> their DDTC submissions.  But this is entirely besides the point and
>> irrelevant, and YOU ALL KNOW IT.  Most companies have a reason to protect
>> the development of their (or others) defense articles.  There are no
>> defense articles or other IP to protect here, as-far-as-we-all-know?!!?!?
>> Why does an organization focused on transparent open source development of
>> amateur satellite technology care about protecting this submission to the
>> DDTC?  That's a more critical question.  Why wasn't the DDTC submission
>> provided to the -bb community before being sent out?  So we could know what
>> was being requested and why?
>>
>>
>> Attach, select file, send already,
>> Joseph Armbruster
>> KJ4JIO
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 5:34 PM John Brier via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>>> This is not a double standard or a lack of transparency. Their lawyer
>>> requested they not release certain information and they are doing as
>>> requested.
>>>
>>> Open source software companies work with security embargos on
>>> vulnerabilities, and NDAs on prerelease hardware all the time. They keep
>>> specific things secret for as long as they have to and then open it up as
>>> soon as they can.
>>>
>>> Michelle even said she would double check with the lawyers to see if they
>>> can release it. She is also looking into whether there are examples of
>>> this
>>> form being published online by other orgs. She is not saying flat out no
>>> because I have a right to.
>>>
>>> 73, John Brier KG4AKV
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 16:21 David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <
>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > I'm sorry - but this thread is absolutely hilarious, and the last
>>> reply by
>>> > Mr. Perens is the cherry on top of the stupidity cake.
>>> >
>>> > Michelle and her comrades have spouted all about transparency and
>>> openness
>>> > for the past year, but when they're presented with an opportunity to be
>>> > transparent and open with their competing organizations they play the
>>> 'Our
>>> > Lawyers said not to share card'. When presented with their hypocrisy
>>> they
>>> > retreat to the completely expected position of politicians everywhere
>>> by
>>> > claiming that while AMSAT should make everything open, ORI has a right
>>> to
>>> > keep things secret, because what they're doing is special and
>>> different.
>>> > And then - amazingly - still have the audacity to somehow justify their
>>> > position by claiming AMSAT isn't launching satellites? Unless I'm
>>> mistaken,
>>> > ORI/Perens Inc. have launched precisely *ZERO* birds ever - AMSAT has
>>> put 4
>>> > birds in orbit since I've been a member, and has provided parts and
>>> > guidance to countless 3rd parties to launch their own birds. They have
>>> a
>>> > realistic plan to get more birds into the orbits operators want
>>> despite not
>>> > being part of the in-crowd... I have complete faith that they will
>>> deliver,
>>> > because they already have. ORI has delivered jack all except promises
>>> and
>>> > chaos.
>>> >
>>> > Maybe - just MAYBE - this thread lays bare what the community will be
>>> > getting with "the slate" of candidates. A whole bunch of "Thee, but
>>> not for
>>> > me" type of leadership, and a whole bunch of empty guarantees.
>>> >
>>> > -Dave, KG5CCI
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:17 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
>>> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Sorry you feel that way. The unfortunate fact is that AMSAT has
>>> already
>>> > > been judged by its outside funding organizations, and is going to
>>> have a
>>> > > hard time surmounting that without a major change in leadership. It
>>> isn't
>>> > > going to matter much for you to stick with leadership who can't can't
>>> > build
>>> > > and launch enough satellites. That is what it is coming to. Fixing
>>> that
>>> > is
>>> > > the only agenda.
>>> > >
>>> > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 11:18 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
>>> > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > > My final word. At least some people on your agendized team, for the
>>> > take
>>> > > > over of AMSAT, I hold or have held in high respect. That is, at
>>> least
>>> > > until
>>> > > > they allowed themselves to be associated with this travesty of
>>> ego. I
>>> > now
>>> > > > question their judgement And motivation. That?s on you. TEAM
>>> politics
>>> > > isn?t
>>> > > > what this is about. Character, track record, and how I have seen
>>> > > candidates
>>> > > > treat Me and others is how I will vote.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > I am highly disappointed that this has turned into a we / they
>>> > campaign.
>>> > > > The organization is better than that. Regardless of the outcome of
>>> this
>>> > > > election, I judge AMSAT and it reputation will be damaged moving
>>> > forward.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > EMike, AA8EM
>>> > > >
>>> > > > EMike McCardel, AA8EM
>>> > > > Past Senior Editor AMSAT News Service
>>> > > > Past AMSAT-NA VP Educational Relations
>>> > > > Former ARRL, Ohio Section, Affiliated Club Coordinator
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > > On Aug 19, 2020, at 1:11 PM, Michelle Thompson <
>>> > > > mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > ?
>>> > > > > You might have missed the part where all of the information in
>>> this
>>> > > > particular CJ request is already publicly available. It's already
>>> > > > transparent.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > The submitted form itself is not usually published. That's the
>>> only
>>> > > > restriction we are talking about.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > This is fundamentally different from refusing to allow Directors
>>> > access
>>> > > > to corporate records unless they sign NDAs, then showing up
>>> without the
>>> > > > actual NDAs, then continuing to deny access to records and
>>> > communications
>>> > > > after everyone signed a blank form that purported to be a signature
>>> > form
>>> > > > for these alleged NDAs. Some of which have yet to be produced and
>>> you
>>> > as
>>> > > a
>>> > > > member are not allowed to know about.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > Your attack is off base and inaccurate. I'm sorry you feel the
>>> way
>>> > you
>>> > > > do. This work means that things can get dramatically better for the
>>> > > > organization in highly visible and measurable ways.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > -Michelle W5NYV
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 9:33 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
>>> > > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>> > > > >> Just an observation. Among all of this talk, during the past
>>> BOoD
>>> > > > election
>>> > > > >> cycle, about Transparency, I find it amazing that the excuse of
>>> the
>>> > > > Lawyers
>>> > > > >> or others don't think it wise to disclose information can even
>>> be an
>>> > > > >> argument.
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> Michelle Wrote:
>>> > > > >> "Unless, of course, this  Information contained in CJ requests
>>> is
>>> > not
>>> > > > >> usually made public. The law firm would not file it unless it
>>> was
>>> > > > presented
>>> > > > >> to the State Department as private and confidential. This
>>> advice was
>>> > > > >> because virtually all requests are for proprietary programs and
>>> > > > products.
>>> > > > >> Sticking out in this regard, by doing something they advised
>>> > strongly
>>> > > > >> against, would not work to our
>>> > > > >> advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on
>>> the
>>> > > > wrong
>>> > > > >> hill.  as an admission that NDA's are indeed important and not
>>> just
>>> > > > >> convenient."
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> Is this not the very essence of Non-Disclosure Agreements?
>>> Without
>>> > the
>>> > > > >> transparency which seems to be lacking here this comes across
>>> as a
>>> > > > simple
>>> > > > >> political stunt. Enough already.
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> I am not voting for any TEAM, I'm putting my trust in
>>> individuals
>>> > > whom I
>>> > > > >> respect and trust and have no agenda other than serving AMSAT to
>>> > keep
>>> > > > >> amateur radio in space.
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> EMike, AA8EM
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> E. Michael McCardel, AA8EM, former KC8YLD
>>> > > > >> Former Senior Editor for AMSAT News Service,
>>> > > > >> Past VP Educational Relations for AMSAT-NA
>>> > > > >> Former Ohio Section Affiliated Club Coordinator
>>> > > > >> _______________________________________________
>>> > > > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>> > available
>>> > > > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
>>> membership.
>>> > > > Opinions expressed
>>> > > > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>> > views
>>> > > > of AMSAT-NA.
>>> > > > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
>>> satellite
>>> > > > program!
>>> > > > >> Subscription settings:
>>> > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> > > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>> available
>>> > > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> > > Opinions
>>> > > > expressed
>>> > > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>> views
>>> > of
>>> > > > AMSAT-NA.
>>> > > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> > > program!
>>> > > > Subscription settings:
>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> > > >
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>> available
>>> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> > Opinions
>>> > > expressed
>>> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>> views of
>>> > > AMSAT-NA.
>>> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> > program!
>>> > > Subscription settings:
>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> > >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions
>>> > expressed
>>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>> of
>>> > AMSAT-NA.
>>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>

From wb4gcs at wb4gcs.org  Thu Aug 20 01:12:02 2020
From: wb4gcs at wb4gcs.org (Jim Sanford)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 21:12:02 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Has the amsat.org remailer crashed?
Message-ID: <1c4f293e-94c5-32e8-71f4-0ab8da2052ae@wb4gcs.org>

I'm not getting anything, including test messages.? Yet, tests to my 
physical address come through immediately.

If anybody knows, is this a long-term problem or something that will be 
fixed any time soon?

Thanks & 73,

Jim

wb4gcs at amsat.org


(reply to wb4gcs at wb4gcs.org)



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


From aj9n at aol.com  Thu Aug 20 01:36:27 2020
From: aj9n at aol.com (aj9n at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 01:36:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-20 01:00
	UTC
References: <1884112021.3562602.1597887387553.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1884112021.3562602.1597887387553@mail.yahoo.com>


Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-20 01:00 UTC

?

Quick list of scheduled contacts and events:

?

Kopernik Observatory & Science Center, Vestal, NY, direct via K2ZRO 

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be NA1SS

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR 

Contact was successful: Wed 2020-08-19 18:21:55 UTC 85 deg (***)

Watch for live stream starting about 20 to 30 minutes ahead of AOS at: https://youtu.be/1Pwcc2rilz0??

?

Information and Technologies Branch, Department of Education-Queensland Government, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, telebridge via ON4ISS

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be OR4ISS

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR 

Contact is go for: Mon 2020-08-24 08:09:22 UTC 80 deg? This time is going to change.? (***)

?

Watch for new contact time:? Mon 2020-08-24 09:32:57 UTC 34 deg via AB1OC (***)

?

Thanks to Bob VK4DA, the live audio should be available: Echolink *HAM* 69556 / IRLP 9556 / AllStar 48820 49903 (***)

?

########################################################################################################################################

?

A multi-point telebridge contact means that each student will be on the telebridge from their own home.

*************************************************

?

ARISS is very aware of the impact that COVID-19 is having on schools and the public in general.? As such, we may have last minute cancellations or postponements of school contacts.? As always, I will try to provide everyone with near-real-time updates.? 

?

The following schools have now been postponed or cancelled due to COVID-19:? 

?

Postponed:

Estes Park Elementary School (***)

?

Cancelled:

No new schools

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

?

Watch for future COVID-19 related announcements here also.

?

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

?

Note, all times are approximate. ?It is recommended that you do your own 

orbital prediction?or start listening about 10 minutes before the listed 

time. 

All dates and times listed follow International Standard ISO 8601 date and 

time format YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS

?

The complete schedule page has been updated as of?2020-08-20 01:00 UTC. (***)

Here you will find a listing of all scheduled?school contacts, and 

questions, other ISS related websites, IRLP and Echolink websites, and 

instructions for any contact that may be streamed live.

?

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf 

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.txt 

?

?

The successful school list has been updated as of 2020-08-20 01:00 UTC. (***)

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/Successful_ARISS_schools.rtf 

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

?

Message to US Educators

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States) 

?

The Proposal Window of February 1, 2020 to March 31, 2020 has now closed.

?

For future proposal information and more details such as expectations, proposal guidelines and proposal form, and dates and times of Information Webinars, go to www.ariss.org.

?

Please direct any questions to?ariss.us.education at gmail.com.

?

About ARISS:

?

Amateur Radio on the International Space Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radio societies and the space agencies that support the International Space Station (ISS).? In the United States, sponsors are the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio Relay League (ARRL), the ISS National Lab and National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEAM) topics by organizing scheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS and students in classrooms or public forms. Before and during these radio contacts, students, educators, parents, and communities learn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. For more information, see www.ariss.org.

?

********************************************************************************

ARISS Contact Applications (Europe, Africa and the Middle East)

?

Schools and Youth organizations in Europe, Africa and the Middle East interested in setting up an ARISS radio contact with an astronaut on board the International Space Station are invited to submit an application from September to October and from February to April.

Please refer to details and the application form at www.ariss-eu.org/school-contacts.? Applications should be addressed by email to:? school.selection.manager at ariss-eu.org

?

ARISS Contact Applications (Canada, Central and South America, Asia and Australia and Russia)

?

Organizations outside the United States can apply for an ARISS contact by filling out an application.? Please direct questions to the appropriate regional representative listed below. If your country is not specifically listed, send your questions to the nearest ARISS Region listed. If you are unsure which address to use, please send your question to the ARISS-Canada representative; they will forward your question to the appropriate coordinator.

?

For the application, go to:? https://www.ariss.org/ariss-application.html.

ARISS-Canada and the Americas, except USA: Steve McFarlane, VE3TBD email to: ve3tbd at gmail.com

ARISS-Japan, Asia, Pacific and Australia: Satoshi Yasuda, 7M3TJZ email to: ariss at iaru-r3.org, Japan Amateur Radio League (JARL) https://www.jarl.org/

ARISS-Russia: Soyuz Radioljubitelei Rossii (SRR) https://srr.ru/

?

?

******************************************************************************

ARISS is always glad to receive listener reports for the above contacts.? ARISS thanks everyone in advance for their assistance.? Feel free to send your reports to aj9n at amsat.org or aj9n at aol.com.

?

Listen for the ISS on the downlink of 145.8? MHz.

?

*******************************************************************************

?

All ARISS contacts are made via the Kenwood radio unless otherwise noted.

?

*******************************************************************************


Several of you have sent me emails asking about the RAC ARISS website and 
not being able to get in. ?That has now been changed to https://www.ariss.org/

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

****************************************************************************

Looking for something new to do?? How about receiving DATV from the ISS?? Please note that the HamTV system has been brought back to earth for troubleshooting.? Please monitor ARISS-EU or ARISS-ON for the very latest news on the troubleshooting efforts.? 

?

If interested, then please go to the ARISS-EU website for complete details.? Look for the buttons indicating Ham Video.???????????? 

?

http://www.ariss-eu.org/

?

If you need some assistance, ARISS mentor Kerry N6IZW, might be able to provide some insight.? Contact Kerry at kbanke at sbcglobal.net

?

?

The HamTV webpage:? https://www.amsat-on.be/hamtv-summary/

?

?

****************************************************************************
ARISS congratulations the following mentors who have now mentored over 100 schools: 

?

Francesco IK?WGF with 140

Satoshi 7M3TJZ with 138 

Sergey RV3DR with 135 

Gaston ON4WF with 123

?

****************************************************************************

The webpages listed below were all reviewed for accuracy. Out of date 

webpages were removed, and new ones have been added.? If there are additional 

ARISS websites I need to know about, please let me know.

?

?

?

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school events is 1395. (***)

Each school counts as 1 event.?????????????????????????????????? 

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school contacts is 1328. (***)

Each contact may have multiple schools sharing the same time slot.

Total number of ARISS supported terrestrial contacts is 48. 

?

A complete year by year breakdown of the contacts may be found in the 

file.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf

?

Please feel free to contact me if more detailed statistics are needed.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



The following US states and entities have never had an ARISS contact:
South Dakota, Wyoming, American?Samoa, Guam, Northern Marianas Islands, and the Virgin Islands.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

?

QSL information may be found at:

https://www.ariss.org/qsl-cards.html

?

ISS callsigns: DP?ISS, IR?ISS, NA1SS, OR4ISS, RS?ISS

?

****************************************************************************



Frequency chart for packet, voice, and crossband repeater modes showing 

Doppler correction as of 2005-07-29 04:00 UTC

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/ISS_frequencies_and_Doppler_correction.rtf



Check out the Zoho reports of the ARISS contacts

?

https://reports.zoho.com/ZDBDataSheetView.cc?DBID=412218000000020415

****************************************************************************

?

Exp. 62 now on orbit 

Chris Cassidy KF5KDR

Anatoli Ivanishin

Ivan Vagner

****************************************************************************

73,

Charlie?Sufana AJ9N
One of the ARISS operation team mentors

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?



From kb2ysi at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 03:15:02 2020
From: kb2ysi at gmail.com (Don KB2YSI)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 23:15:02 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Recording Passes
In-Reply-To: <SN6PR11MB2752AF38F5A998D131B10A44D0400@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN6PR11MB2752AF38F5A998D131B10A44D0400@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAAJiE8OeTi7X9Q-spnCF0YaF7-hiAt8xeRQAdUTgo2TSS4ZTnA@mail.gmail.com>

Depending on your setup, you could put a cellphone, laptop, or a mic hooked
into your computer in front of the radio speaker; if the other options
people have sent do not work for you.

On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 12:46 PM Gerald Payton via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> GETTING STARTED:
>
> I realize that many Amsat OPs are using handheld antennas and operating
> portable.  However, I am planning a base station using my Kenwood TS-2000.
> I do not visualize myself operating portable primarily that I do not have
> needed radios etc. and my age.  UGH!
>
> I further realize that using some sort of recorder during a pass is almost
> a MUST HAVE.  Besides the obvious for base station operations of a digital
> of an analog recorder; what other options would some of you seasoned OPs
> suggest.
>
> I know that the TS-2000 does have a recorder accessory (DRU-3A) but
> finding one might be a challenge due to the age of the radio.
>
> Thanks and 73,
> Jerry AB5R
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
73,
Don KB2YSI
https://www.hamqth.com/kb2ysi

From nss at mwt.net  Thu Aug 20 03:27:34 2020
From: nss at mwt.net (Joe)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 22:27:34 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO & Geo Orbits,
Message-ID: <d5aed227-4eba-7009-7056-c407846a4151@mwt.net>

OK getting into a LEO orbit isn't all that hard.

How about a mission of a Nice linear bird, But? why not add Musk's ION 
engine to it,? and just let it burn till it eventually gets into a HEO 
orbit or GEO orbit. even if it takes years to get there who cares?

Joe WB9SBD
-- 
Sig
The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 20 03:45:34 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 20:45:34 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO & Geo Orbits,
In-Reply-To: <d5aed227-4eba-7009-7056-c407846a4151@mwt.net>
References: <d5aed227-4eba-7009-7056-c407846a4151@mwt.net>
Message-ID: <68751ce1-4472-4826-8f75-20bbdbb1d9df@yahoo.com>

You know, a number of posts ago I asked if any of the current BOD could pick up the phone and make a personal call to any of the shakers & movers in the current space world.

DEAD silence!

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Aug 19, 2020, 20:32, at 20:32, Joe via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>OK getting into a LEO orbit isn't all that hard.
>
>How about a mission of a Nice linear bird, But? why not add Musk's ION 
>engine to it,? and just let it burn till it eventually gets into a HEO 
>orbit or GEO orbit. even if it takes years to get there who cares?
>
>Joe WB9SBD
>-- 
>Sig
>The Original Rolling Ball Clock
>Idle Tyme
>Idle-Tyme.com
>http://www.idle-tyme.com
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From jim at k6ccc.org  Thu Aug 20 03:51:52 2020
From: jim at k6ccc.org (Jim Walls)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 20:51:52 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO & Geo Orbits,
In-Reply-To: <68751ce1-4472-4826-8f75-20bbdbb1d9df@yahoo.com>
References: <d5aed227-4eba-7009-7056-c407846a4151@mwt.net>
	<68751ce1-4472-4826-8f75-20bbdbb1d9df@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <83132780-6941-706c-f2d1-4dc4056f664d@k6ccc.org>

On 08/19/2020 20:45, W3AB/GEO via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> You know, a number of posts ago I asked if any of the current BOD could pick up the phone and make a personal call to any of the shakers & movers in the current space world.
>
> DEAD silence!
>

It may not have been YOUR suggestion, but I recall that one has been 
answered.? As I recall reading here, AMSAT HAS been in contact with 
various launch providers.? And no, I'm not going to do the research for 
you to find it (I don't keep all messages on this reflector).

-- 
73
-------------------------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
jim at k6ccc.org
Ofc:  818-548-4804
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395


From les at highnoonfilm.com  Thu Aug 20 03:11:17 2020
From: les at highnoonfilm.com (Les Rayburn)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 22:11:17 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Working Satellites
Message-ID: <50D72B27-2EC3-4888-A7F2-A72BCE65C35D@highnoonfilm.com>

We?ve voted?and regardless of the outcome, it?s clear that there are some issues facing the organization that need to be ironed out. 

In the meantime, can we return this e-mail list to the discussion of working amateur satellites? My days and nights are filled with politics?and now my hobby too. It?s just too much. 

With all due respect. 



73,

Les Rayburn, N1LF
Maylene, AL 
EM63nf
AMSAT #38965, ARRL Life Member, CVHS Life Member, SVHF Member





From rhyolite at leikhim.com  Thu Aug 20 05:03:20 2020
From: rhyolite at leikhim.com (Joe Leikhim)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 01:03:20 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb]  Transparency and Double Standards
In-Reply-To: <a1819e71-5b4b-3c90-81c6-818859c32f00@leikhim.com>
References: <a1819e71-5b4b-3c90-81c6-818859c32f00@leikhim.com>
Message-ID: <477d81ad-d959-b72f-8c63-f67ade267d5d@leikhim.com>

This is getting outright silly. _It is the AMSAT equivalent of Obama's

Birth Certificate._ Makes me wonder......

Anyone can look up that form on line with Google and they will find 1)
It is an online form, 2) You won't find anyone's completed form in a
Google Search.

ORI hired an attorney to enter the form and it is the attorney's work
product.? Probably if it were released here, certain unnamed trolls
would pick it apart simply to try and find a technical fault. If you
were not part of the solution, you don't have a right to criticize the
process.

Who really cares about this. The result is that ORI jumped a hurdle.
That is a good thing and took effort. Apparently others did not make the
effort or we would have launched an HEO in past 15 years rather than
wring hands over SCARY SCARY ITAR.

The only ones whining are those who are ganging up in opposition of the
new board members.




"Michelle,

The request form itself contains ALL OF THE INFORMATION that anyone on the
-bb should care about on this matter.

For all we know right now, the request paperwork may not have even
referenced the designs that you speak of.? We literally have no way of
knowing.

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO"

-- 
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

JLeikhim at Leikhim.com

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM


From aj9n at aol.com  Thu Aug 20 12:36:54 2020
From: aj9n at aol.com (aj9n at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 12:36:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-20 12:30
	UTC
References: <92356623.3684637.1597927014293.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <92356623.3684637.1597927014293@mail.yahoo.com>


Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-20 12:30 UTC

?

Quick list of scheduled contacts and events:

?

Information and Technologies Branch, Department of Education-Queensland Government, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, telebridge via AB1OC (***)

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be NA1SS (***)

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR 

Contact is go for: Mon 2020-08-24 09:32:57 UTC 34 deg (***)

?

Thanks to Bob VK4DA, the live audio should be available: Echolink *HAM* 69556 / IRLP 9556 / AllStar 48820 49903

?

########################################################################################################################################

?

A multi-point telebridge contact means that each student will be on the telebridge from their own home.

*************************************************

?

ARISS is very aware of the impact that COVID-19 is having on schools and the public in general.? As such, we may have last minute cancellations or postponements of school contacts.? As always, I will try to provide everyone with near-real-time updates.? 

?

The following schools have now been postponed or cancelled due to COVID-19:? 

?

Postponed:

No new schools (***)

?

Cancelled:

No new schools

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

?

Watch for future COVID-19 related announcements here also.

?

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

?

Note, all times are approximate. ?It is recommended that you do your own 

orbital prediction?or start listening about 10 minutes before the listed 

time. 

All dates and times listed follow International Standard ISO 8601 date and 

time format YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS

?

The complete schedule page has been updated as of?2020-08-20 12:30 UTC. (***)

Here you will find a listing of all scheduled?school contacts, and 

questions, other ISS related websites, IRLP and Echolink websites, and 

instructions for any contact that may be streamed live.

?

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf 

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.txt 

?

?

The successful school list has been updated as of 2020-08-20 01:00 UTC. 

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/Successful_ARISS_schools.rtf 

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

?

Message to US Educators

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States) 

?

The Proposal Window of February 1, 2020 to March 31, 2020 has now closed.

?

For future proposal information and more details such as expectations, proposal guidelines and proposal form, and dates and times of Information Webinars, go to www.ariss.org.

?

Please direct any questions to?ariss.us.education at gmail.com.

?

About ARISS:

?

Amateur Radio on the International Space Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radio societies and the space agencies that support the International Space Station (ISS).? In the United States, sponsors are the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio Relay League (ARRL), the ISS National Lab and National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEAM) topics by organizing scheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS and students in classrooms or public forms. Before and during these radio contacts, students, educators, parents, and communities learn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. For more information, see www.ariss.org.

?

********************************************************************************

ARISS Contact Applications (Europe, Africa and the Middle East)

?

Schools and Youth organizations in Europe, Africa and the Middle East interested in setting up an ARISS radio contact with an astronaut on board the International Space Station are invited to submit an application from September to October and from February to April.

Please refer to details and the application form at www.ariss-eu.org/school-contacts.? Applications should be addressed by email to:? school.selection.manager at ariss-eu.org

?

ARISS Contact Applications (Canada, Central and South America, Asia and Australia and Russia)

?

Organizations outside the United States can apply for an ARISS contact by filling out an application.? Please direct questions to the appropriate regional representative listed below. If your country is not specifically listed, send your questions to the nearest ARISS Region listed. If you are unsure which address to use, please send your question to the ARISS-Canada representative; they will forward your question to the appropriate coordinator.

?

For the application, go to:? https://www.ariss.org/ariss-application.html.

ARISS-Canada and the Americas, except USA: Steve McFarlane, VE3TBD email to: ve3tbd at gmail.com

ARISS-Japan, Asia, Pacific and Australia: Satoshi Yasuda, 7M3TJZ email to: ariss at iaru-r3.org, Japan Amateur Radio League (JARL) https://www.jarl.org/

ARISS-Russia: Soyuz Radioljubitelei Rossii (SRR) https://srr.ru/

?

?

******************************************************************************

ARISS is always glad to receive listener reports for the above contacts.? ARISS thanks everyone in advance for their assistance.? Feel free to send your reports to aj9n at amsat.org or aj9n at aol.com.

?

Listen for the ISS on the downlink of 145.8? MHz.

?

*******************************************************************************

?

All ARISS contacts are made via the Kenwood radio unless otherwise noted.

?

*******************************************************************************


Several of you have sent me emails asking about the RAC ARISS website and 
not being able to get in. ?That has now been changed to https://www.ariss.org/

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

****************************************************************************

Looking for something new to do?? How about receiving DATV from the ISS?? Please note that the HamTV system has been brought back to earth for troubleshooting.? Please monitor ARISS-EU or ARISS-ON for the very latest news on the troubleshooting efforts.? 

?

If interested, then please go to the ARISS-EU website for complete details.? Look for the buttons indicating Ham Video.???????????? 

?

http://www.ariss-eu.org/

?

If you need some assistance, ARISS mentor Kerry N6IZW, might be able to provide some insight.? Contact Kerry at kbanke at sbcglobal.net

?

?

The HamTV webpage:? https://www.amsat-on.be/hamtv-summary/

?

?

****************************************************************************
ARISS congratulations the following mentors who have now mentored over 100 schools: 

?

Francesco IK?WGF with 140

Satoshi 7M3TJZ with 138 

Sergey RV3DR with 135 

Gaston ON4WF with 123

?

****************************************************************************

The webpages listed below were all reviewed for accuracy. Out of date 

webpages were removed, and new ones have been added.? If there are additional 

ARISS websites I need to know about, please let me know.

?

?

?

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school events is 1395. 

Each school counts as 1 event.?????????????????????????????????? 

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school contacts is 1328. 

Each contact may have multiple schools sharing the same time slot.

Total number of ARISS supported terrestrial contacts is 48. 

?

A complete year by year breakdown of the contacts may be found in the 

file.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf

?

Please feel free to contact me if more detailed statistics are needed.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



The following US states and entities have never had an ARISS contact:
South Dakota, Wyoming, American?Samoa, Guam, Northern Marianas Islands, and the Virgin Islands.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

?

QSL information may be found at:

https://www.ariss.org/qsl-cards.html

?

ISS callsigns: DP?ISS, IR?ISS, NA1SS, OR4ISS, RS?ISS

?

****************************************************************************



Frequency chart for packet, voice, and crossband repeater modes showing 

Doppler correction as of 2005-07-29 04:00 UTC

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/ISS_frequencies_and_Doppler_correction.rtf



Check out the Zoho reports of the ARISS contacts

?

https://reports.zoho.com/ZDBDataSheetView.cc?DBID=412218000000020415

****************************************************************************

?

Exp. 62 now on orbit 

Chris Cassidy KF5KDR

Anatoli Ivanishin

Ivan Vagner

****************************************************************************

73,

Charlie?Sufana AJ9N
One of the ARISS operation team mentors

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?



From colonelkrypton at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 13:15:50 2020
From: colonelkrypton at gmail.com (Graham c)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 13:15:50 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ridiculous reactions
In-Reply-To: <c525805c-19bf-f9c6-43e4-0bcf69f4bb77@charter.net>
References: <c525805c-19bf-f9c6-43e4-0bcf69f4bb77@charter.net>
Message-ID: <CAJ2gCDssxd+8Zsvw3CwMSsbw9UccrYsmk_GgT+6Ogg6-KMn9Ow@mail.gmail.com>

I have been reading the various threads, and postings of late regarding the
goings on of AMSAT.

All in all, it reminds of this:
https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Jerry_Pournelle%27s_Iron_Law_of_Bureaucracy

cheers, Graham ve3gtc


On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 11:35 PM Michael Tondee via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> We have potentially great news about ITAR and all certain people can
> think to do is try to tear it down. Could it be that some people don't
> want AMSAT to be out from under ITAR because it removes a convenient
> excuse for the lack of ability to get anything consequential done
> towards launching an HEO satellite? The  premature negative reactions
> are ridiculous.
>
> 73,
>
> Michael, W4HIJ
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From k8bl at ameritech.net  Thu Aug 20 16:10:30 2020
From: k8bl at ameritech.net (Bob Liddy (K8BL))
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 16:10:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Working Satellites
In-Reply-To: <50D72B27-2EC3-4888-A7F2-A72BCE65C35D@highnoonfilm.com>
References: <50D72B27-2EC3-4888-A7F2-A72BCE65C35D@highnoonfilm.com>
Message-ID: <1501880534.5019065.1597939830606@mail.yahoo.com>

Les,

That is a wonderful suggestion/request and I wish it would
happen, but it won't. The situation has become too toxic and
I fear that it could be a long time before it levels out. When
the Election is concluded. do I think that will be the end of the
discord? Remembering from an old Seinfeld episode, "Not
bloody likely!"?

Meanwhile, the BB Messages still go to Spam. I might read one
rarely before the file gets trashed, but the key word is rarely. If
the irritating discussions continue after the Election, the BB will
stay as Spam! I only read yours because the title appeared to have
something to do with using Satellites versus all that other "stuff".

73,? ? ?Bob? K8BL

(AMSAT #6593 since 1979, ARRL 50+ Year Member, ARRL VE,
? ?ARRL VUCC Card Checker, etc.)




On Thursday, August 20, 2020, 12:24:18 AM EDT, Les Rayburn via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 





We?ve voted?and regardless of the outcome, it?s clear that there are some issues facing the organization that need to be ironed out. 

In the meantime, can we return this e-mail list to the discussion of working amateur satellites? My days and nights are filled with politics?and now my hobby too. It?s just too much. 

With all due respect. 



73,

Les Rayburn, N1LF
Maylene, AL 
EM63nf
AMSAT #38965, ARRL Life Member, CVHS Life Member, SVHF Member




_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From skristof at etczone.com  Thu Aug 20 17:30:42 2020
From: skristof at etczone.com (Steve Kristoff)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 13:30:42 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] It's here!
Message-ID: <acfde5942a07c2023e946aa5c428fc8f@etczone.com>


?Woo-hoo! My BoD ballot arrived today.

Why so late? Perhaps I live in some far-flung district such as Luxembourg or Tasmania.

No, it's worse than that. Indiana.

If I return it today perhaps it will arrive back in the hands of the Secretary before the deadline.

Who says the USPS is having problems?

Steve AI9IN



From clintbradford at mac.com  Thu Aug 20 18:38:44 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 11:38:44 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming Zoom Satellite Presentations
Message-ID: <D3B1613D-BFB3-45C2-8496-466B749A9057@mac.com>

I am conducting "working the easy satellites" sessions via Zoom on ...

- September 2
- September 14
- October 27

If you might be interested in attending either of these Zoom presentations, please send me a private email for exact times and Zoom meeting number! And don't not forget to update your Zoom app regularly - ONLY by going directly to their Web site or using the app's drop-down option, "Check for updates."

Clint Bradford K6LCS
909-999-SATS (7287)
k6lcs at ham-sat.info

From jean.marc.momple at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 18:51:11 2020
From: jean.marc.momple at gmail.com (Jean Marc Momple)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 22:51:11 +0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] It's here!
In-Reply-To: <acfde5942a07c2023e946aa5c428fc8f@etczone.com>
References: <acfde5942a07c2023e946aa5c428fc8f@etczone.com>
Message-ID: <6837279D-5C55-4586-80AE-E2A5FB3D22B6@gmail.com>

Steve,

Same my side, just arrived in 3B8.

Will post it back duly filed by registered mail tomorrow but not sure that it will reach in time, as post services from 3B8 to/from international not yet back to normal due to COVID.

I really do not understand why AMSAT not doing electronic ballots, are we still in the old days when paper signature with blood required. Most of my transactions such  banking, tax, insurance, payment of services are made online. To summarize as a member of AMSAt I may fail to vote in time due to legacy and probably COVID issues, just a shame when very simple solutions are available.

I suggest to all candidates for election to look into the matter and promise a online voting for next election (simple stuff), as if I am not able to cast my vote in time due to old fashion ways of doing things I will just not renew my membership to AMSAT-NA as having no way to exercise my rights as a member.

73


Jean Marc (3B8DU)


> On Aug 20, 2020, at 9:30 PM, Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> 
>  Woo-hoo! My BoD ballot arrived today.
> 
> Why so late? Perhaps I live in some far-flung district such as Luxembourg or Tasmania.
> 
> No, it's worse than that. Indiana.
> 
> If I return it today perhaps it will arrive back in the hands of the Secretary before the deadline.
> 
> Who says the USPS is having problems?
> 
> Steve AI9IN
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From tnetcenter at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 20:06:13 2020
From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 13:06:13 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ridiculous reactions
In-Reply-To: <CAJ2gCDssxd+8Zsvw3CwMSsbw9UccrYsmk_GgT+6Ogg6-KMn9Ow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c525805c-19bf-f9c6-43e4-0bcf69f4bb77@charter.net>
	<CAJ2gCDssxd+8Zsvw3CwMSsbw9UccrYsmk_GgT+6Ogg6-KMn9Ow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALx_moTfrU8ftzX9bjF06SxGD7vOqEWrqC2SuFOOQ3Rmb_B7hA@mail.gmail.com>

Graham,

I think you are spot on with that comment.   I've seen this in multiple
entities including AMSAT-NA.

Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY
CN94


On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 6:17 AM Graham c via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> I have been reading the various threads, and postings of late regarding the
> goings on of AMSAT.
>
> All in all, it reminds of this:
> https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Jerry_Pournelle%27s_Iron_Law_of_Bureaucracy
>
> cheers, Graham ve3gtc
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 11:35 PM Michael Tondee via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > We have potentially great news about ITAR and all certain people can
> > think to do is try to tear it down. Could it be that some people don't
> > want AMSAT to be out from under ITAR because it removes a convenient
> > excuse for the lack of ability to get anything consequential done
> > towards launching an HEO satellite? The  premature negative reactions
> > are ridiculous.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Michael, W4HIJ
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From tnetcenter at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 20:19:58 2020
From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 13:19:58 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] It's here!
In-Reply-To: <6837279D-5C55-4586-80AE-E2A5FB3D22B6@gmail.com>
References: <acfde5942a07c2023e946aa5c428fc8f@etczone.com>
	<6837279D-5C55-4586-80AE-E2A5FB3D22B6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALx_moRbxm_+YT-9gS3b2wDNAgfVgro859oKz4ce_haydYdWNQ@mail.gmail.com>

Moving to electronic balloting would require the BoD to meet - likely
multiple times to discuss and vote on it.   Something they seem reluctant
to do lately!   Vote accordingly.

Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY
CN94


On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 12:04 PM Jean Marc Momple via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Steve,
>
> Same my side, just arrived in 3B8.
>
> Will post it back duly filed by registered mail tomorrow but not sure that
> it will reach in time, as post services from 3B8 to/from international not
> yet back to normal due to COVID.
>
> I really do not understand why AMSAT not doing electronic ballots, are we
> still in the old days when paper signature with blood required. Most of my
> transactions such  banking, tax, insurance, payment of services are made
> online. To summarize as a member of AMSAt I may fail to vote in time due to
> legacy and probably COVID issues, just a shame when very simple solutions
> are available.
>
> I suggest to all candidates for election to look into the matter and
> promise a online voting for next election (simple stuff), as if I am not
> able to cast my vote in time due to old fashion ways of doing things I will
> just not renew my membership to AMSAT-NA as having no way to exercise my
> rights as a member.
>
> 73
>
>
> Jean Marc (3B8DU)
>
>
> > On Aug 20, 2020, at 9:30 PM, Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> >  Woo-hoo! My BoD ballot arrived today.
> >
> > Why so late? Perhaps I live in some far-flung district such as
> Luxembourg or Tasmania.
> >
> > No, it's worse than that. Indiana.
> >
> > If I return it today perhaps it will arrive back in the hands of the
> Secretary before the deadline.
> >
> > Who says the USPS is having problems?
> >
> > Steve AI9IN
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From ke4al at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 20 20:27:48 2020
From: ke4al at yahoo.com (Robert Bankston)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 20:27:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] It's here!
In-Reply-To: <CALx_moRbxm_+YT-9gS3b2wDNAgfVgro859oKz4ce_haydYdWNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <acfde5942a07c2023e946aa5c428fc8f@etczone.com>
	<6837279D-5C55-4586-80AE-E2A5FB3D22B6@gmail.com>
	<CALx_moRbxm_+YT-9gS3b2wDNAgfVgro859oKz4ce_haydYdWNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2041985307.5162153.1597955268024@mail.yahoo.com>

On Thursday, August 20, 2020, 03:22:30 PM CDT, Jeff Moore via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:?

>Moving to electronic balloting would require the BoD to meet - likely
>
>multiple times to discuss and vote on it.? Something they seem reluctant
>to do lately!? Vote accordingly.

That is completely false.? The Directors did have meetings.? Please refer to statements made by the AMSAT President.

Also, electronic voting was discussed, but decided against due to cost.

73,
Robert, KE4AL

From jeff30339 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 20:41:50 2020
From: jeff30339 at gmail.com (Jeff Johns)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 15:41:50 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] It's here!
In-Reply-To: <2041985307.5162153.1597955268024@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <2041985307.5162153.1597955268024@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1E94A5EC-94C1-49DC-8D3A-0D6DD50880D9@gmail.com>

A ten minute meeting to vote on taking out a loan is not really the kind of board meetings the membership desires. I think the vast majority of members would want the Board to meet on a regular basis to conduct the business of the organization. That has certainly NOT happened. If they had happened, there would be published minutes. As an Officer of the organization, you know that regular Board meeting have NOT occurred. To say otherwise is a lie. This is one thing on the platform that several of us are using in our campaigns. Vote for me, I?ll join others and call for meetings and provide oversight. I will even attempt to have the bylaws changed so we can have proper electronic voting. I can?t help but wonder why this hasn?t happened before now.  I will not rubber stamp items and will provide transparency to the membership. 

Jeff WE4B 
http://we4bravo.com

>> On Aug 20, 2020, at 3:31 PM, Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> 
>> ?On Thursday, August 20, 2020, 03:22:30 PM CDT, Jeff Moore via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 
>> 
>> Moving to electronic balloting would require the BoD to meet - likely
>> multiple times to discuss and vote on it.  Something they seem reluctant
>> to do lately!  Vote accordingly.
> 
> That is completely false.  The Directors did have meetings.  Please refer to statements made by the AMSAT President.
> 
> Also, electronic voting was discussed, but decided against due to cost.
> 
> 73,
> Robert, KE4AL
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From ke4al at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 20 21:44:32 2020
From: ke4al at yahoo.com (Robert Bankston)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 21:44:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Notice to All AMSAT-BB Subscribers
References: <100468892.5216798.1597959872532.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <100468892.5216798.1597959872532@mail.yahoo.com>

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
??
The AMSAT-BB Acceptable Use Policy is clear in stating appropriate content is respectful of the members and readers of the AMSAT List.? Discussion of AMSAT plans and policies must be in ways that foster better understanding of the opportunities, trade-offs, and limitations that AMSAT faces, and constructive suggestions for improvement.
??
https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/AMSAT_AUP_061819.pdf


The AMSAT BB is NOT your personal soapbox or the place for you to make drive by attacks on individuals or AMSAT.? There are over 2,500 subscribers to this List, who are here to discuss, learn, and advance amateur satellites service.
??
Henceforth, any subscriber who:
?
? * ?makes inflammatory posts containing attacks against individuals or AMSAT;
??
? * ?makes known false statements, whether to purposefully evoke a response or not; or
??
? * ?makes posts that clearly does not add value to a discussion
??
will be removed from the subscriber list.
?
This is your one and only warning.

Robert Bankston, KE4AL
Vice-President, User Services
Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)

From pinoleronica at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 20 22:47:07 2020
From: pinoleronica at hotmail.com (Rafael Pena)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 22:47:07 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] DIWATA-2B (PO-101) - Tone setting in SubTone.sqf
In-Reply-To: <mailman.13459.1597955272.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.13459.1597955272.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <DM5PR03MB32289AF87FAE42D271AF0613C65A0@DM5PR03MB3228.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>


This might have been discuss / addressed before.   I tried searching the BB but I could not find a search engine?   

I am using new Icom 9700 (yeay!) and I have not been able to TX on the above subject sat.   The T for tone in the software comes on automatically with T1.  My Tone setting in the SubTone.sqf file is:

PO-101,141.3,$08,22

I also use:  PO-101,141.3,$3F,1   
 to no avail.

Any tips are appreciated.

Rafael / NN3RP


From david.johnson.bbq at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 22:48:41 2020
From: david.johnson.bbq at gmail.com (David Johnson)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 17:48:41 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Notice to All AMSAT-BB Subscribers
In-Reply-To: <100468892.5216798.1597959872532@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <100468892.5216798.1597959872532.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<100468892.5216798.1597959872532@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAPz2khYrTZaMWYWMH=pAcJLCU2=73NU0Q5Lo6=8G5U2w2HVejw@mail.gmail.com>

You were more than patient.  Thanks for drawing the line.

Dave Johnson
W9DWJ

On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 4:46 PM Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
>
> The AMSAT-BB Acceptable Use Policy is clear in stating appropriate content
> is respectful of the members and readers of the AMSAT List.  Discussion of
> AMSAT plans and policies must be in ways that foster better understanding
> of the opportunities, trade-offs, and limitations that AMSAT faces, and
> constructive suggestions for improvement.
>
>
> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/AMSAT_AUP_061819.pdf
>
>
> The AMSAT BB is NOT your personal soapbox or the place for you to make
> drive by attacks on individuals or AMSAT.  There are over 2,500 subscribers
> to this List, who are here to discuss, learn, and advance amateur
> satellites service.
>
> Henceforth, any subscriber who:
>
>   *  makes inflammatory posts containing attacks against individuals or
> AMSAT;
>
>   *  makes known false statements, whether to purposefully evoke a
> response or not; or
>
>   *  makes posts that clearly does not add value to a discussion
>
> will be removed from the subscriber list.
>
> This is your one and only warning.
>
> Robert Bankston, KE4AL
> Vice-President, User Services
> Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
David Johnson

From charlieray at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 23:52:56 2020
From: charlieray at gmail.com (Charles Reiche)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 19:52:56 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] DIWATA-2B (PO-101) - Tone setting in SubTone.sqf
In-Reply-To: <DM5PR03MB32289AF87FAE42D271AF0613C65A0@DM5PR03MB3228.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <mailman.13459.1597955272.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<DM5PR03MB32289AF87FAE42D271AF0613C65A0@DM5PR03MB3228.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAMkCmDrk44fL9HgBhBG0-WQOyU_nbrRc77aaUtHZzDjw2j+scg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Rafael,

I've been using:

PO-101,141.3,$3F,1

and it works on my 9700.

Make sure "PO-101" is the full name in your keps file or rename your
subtone.sqf entry to match the keps name
Parameter 3 and 4 ($3F and after) should be ignored by the software as
those are for Yaesu and Kenwood.


73
N3CRT
Charles Reiche


On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 7:45 PM Rafael Pena via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

>
> This might have been discuss / addressed before.   I tried searching the
> BB but I could not find a search engine?
>
> I am using new Icom 9700 (yeay!) and I have not been able to TX on the
> above subject sat.   The T for tone in the software comes on automatically
> with T1.  My Tone setting in the SubTone.sqf file is:
>
> PO-101,141.3,$08,22
>
> I also use:  PO-101,141.3,$3F,1
>  to no avail.
>
> Any tips are appreciated.
>
> Rafael / NN3RP
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From pinoleronica at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 20 23:55:10 2020
From: pinoleronica at hotmail.com (Rafael Pena)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 23:55:10 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] DIWATA-2B (PO-101) - Tone setting in SubTone.sqf
In-Reply-To: <CAMkCmDrk44fL9HgBhBG0-WQOyU_nbrRc77aaUtHZzDjw2j+scg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.13459.1597955272.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<DM5PR03MB32289AF87FAE42D271AF0613C65A0@DM5PR03MB3228.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>,
	<CAMkCmDrk44fL9HgBhBG0-WQOyU_nbrRc77aaUtHZzDjw2j+scg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DM5PR03MB3228ADEDA21190E6A0608E72C65A0@DM5PR03MB3228.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks a bunch....I modify and test on next pass.

73 / Rafael


________________________________________
De: Charles Reiche <charlieray at gmail.com>
Enviado: jueves, 20 de agosto de 2020 07:52 p. m.
Para: Rafael Pena
CC: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Asunto: Re: [amsat-bb] DIWATA-2B (PO-101) - Tone setting in SubTone.sqf

Hi Rafael,

I've been using:

PO-101,141.3,$3F,1

and it works on my 9700.

Make sure "PO-101" is the full name in your keps file or rename your subtone.sqf entry to match the keps name
Parameter 3 and 4 ($3F and after) should be ignored by the software as those are for Yaesu and Kenwood.


73
N3CRT
Charles Reiche


On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 7:45 PM Rafael Pena via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org<mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>> wrote:

This might have been discuss / addressed before.   I tried searching the BB but I could not find a search engine?

I am using new Icom 9700 (yeay!) and I have not been able to TX on the above subject sat.   The T for tone in the software comes on automatically with T1.  My Tone setting in the SubTone.sqf file is:

PO-101,141.3,$08,22

I also use:  PO-101,141.3,$3F,1
 to no avail.

Any tips are appreciated.

Rafael / NN3RP

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org<mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From n0jy at amsat.org  Fri Aug 21 00:23:34 2020
From: n0jy at amsat.org (Jerry Buxton)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 19:23:34 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO & Geo Orbits,
In-Reply-To: <83132780-6941-706c-f2d1-4dc4056f664d@k6ccc.org>
References: <d5aed227-4eba-7009-7056-c407846a4151@mwt.net>
	<68751ce1-4472-4826-8f75-20bbdbb1d9df@yahoo.com>
	<83132780-6941-706c-f2d1-4dc4056f664d@k6ccc.org>
Message-ID: <ef6e0b2f-c45d-ad27-c1b4-2fee999114b1@amsat.org>

On 8/19/2020 22:51, Jim Walls via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> It may not have been YOUR suggestion, but I recall that one has been
> answered.? As I recall reading here, AMSAT HAS been in contact with
> various launch providers.? And no, I'm not going to do the research
> for you to find it (I don't keep all messages on this reflector). 
True.? And many of the new LV companies have contacted us/me regarding
their services both new and in development.
These are the movers and shakers although that definition probably
varies with the individuals who ask this question and my use of it here.

With the current demand for small satellite launches to LEO and the
situation regarding orbital debris, most of the new entries into the
launch industry are targeting low, Low Earth Orbit of 450-500 km.? There
are two good reasons for that.? One, these orbits take less fuel
mass/volume and smaller engines to reach.? Two these orbits provide
maybe 2-3 years of orbit lifetime which is favorable with the orbital
debris regulations.
In the latter, we are and have for many years been very good stewards of
the orbital debris requirements with absolutely no rogue intentions and
a record that has earned us opportunities to look for high orbits.? In
the former, we don't wish to go to those altitudes right now and the
clamor of public opinion here and elsewhere supports that point.
And so, while I am happy in knowing that AMSAT has a reputation that
warrants contact from at least some of these new movers and shakers,
they are not able to help us at this time.

There is also the process of gaining a ride on a launch vehicle and I
think that a lot of our members probably consider the launch provider to
be ULA, or SpaceX, ISRO, or our latest with Virgin Orbit.? And in all
four (covering five launches), Fox-1A & Fox-1B, Fox-1Cliff, Fox-1D, and
Fox-1E, respectively, in none of the launches is AMSAT dealing directly
with any of those launch vehicle providers.? Launch providers are NASA
through the ELaNa program on ULA and VO and Spaceflight through their
rideshare contracts with ISRO and SpaceX.? Further, we then work with
the payload integrator for that launch, Cal Poly, Tyvak, and TriSept for
the ELaNa launches and another division of Spaceflight for their ISRO
and SpaceX launches (that we purchased).

I have had the pleasure of meeting folks who work for ULA and SpaceX,
and look forward to the same with Virgin Orbit soon, at integration but
none are anywhere near the top of their corporation especially in the
context that I think "movers and shakers" is meant with these corporations.
Short of an invitation to a gala or otherwise someone who knows any of
those company senior officers or directors, there is no chance to ask if
they can extend a hand to AMSAT and just get us a ride please because we
are a bunch of good guys and gals.? And I have been in situations to ask
those not that high up because hey, it never hurts to ask, right?? And
their answer if any usually is exactly what works so well for their
industry; that we should contact one of the launch providers.

Consider what it might be like, were we able to ask Tony Bruno for
another ride on a ULA vehicle as a bit of a favor toward the good things
that us bunch of good guys and gals do for a sliver of the world
population, and he said yes!
I don't mean what it might be like for us, although that probably
follows a lot like what it would be like for ULA; having given a small
group a favor of a million dollars of launch in an act of compassion and
charity, and it being quite public of course since AMSAT has trouble
staying mum even when specifically told to by launch providers, suddenly
15,000 other organizations who deem themselves worthy of Tony or Elon or
Sir Richard sharing a bit of that type of charity with them come out of
the woodwork and bombard them with requests.? That later turn into
demands, that later turn into vilification...
Of course they then include AMSAT in that vilification because we got
something they can't have and that's not fair!
And we have all seen classic examples of all three of that progression
of love and teamwork on -bb lately, so you know what I mean.

My money is on Tony and the others most certainly having considered that
same scenario no matter who asks the favor, and that's why even if you
or I got to have two minutes with any of them at a gala some night it's
very likely that they will refer us to a launch provider, maybe put in a
plug for their favorite since they know now that we talked that we are
just a bunch of good guys and gals.? I'll also bet a small amount that
it is the reason that Elon launched his car, since the questions came up
about how ham radio could have been there and why not, at that time
too.? Can't upset anyone by using that space for a great big publicity
stunt, eh?

As Joe mentioned in his reply to GEO (George?) he is not the first to
ask and we have been in contact and remain active with our connections
and new connections that come along in the launch game.? We would not be
doing our job if we did not and besides, it's part of the fun of this
aspect of amateur radio to have the standing to be able to meet and talk
to many different folks about (especially) cheap rides to places very
high up.? Ask any of our launch providers and at least privately,
because of their NDAs of course, they might share the fact that have and
continue to ask and explore opportunities, even those that might be a
"what if" just to look for any openings.

Of course few of you know all of this, and it probably only comes up in
detail when this question inevitably comes around again.? I mention or
allude to it in the Journal or talks now and then, but of course none of
it is even in detail until something is signed.? Only fools brag about
that which they do not yet hold in their hand, or at least I think
that's true because I have burned myself and embarrassed others
(organizations too) by being too confident.

I'll QRT with little aside, the meeting that I will remember best out of
all of them in our adventures to orbit is the one at the Fox-1A (AO-85)
launch, which was an Air Force launch carrying NRO stuff on a ULA rocket
(so you kinda get the big launch provider picture I mentioned).?
The Captain in charge of that Air Force mission was there and I got to
talk to him at the launch party.? His name?? Captain Kirk.?
This part of the amateur radio hobby just doesn't get any more fun than
that.

73, and thank you all for your support.

Jerry Buxton, N?JY



From jeff at ke9v.net  Fri Aug 21 00:39:53 2020
From: jeff at ke9v.net (Jeff Davis)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 20:39:53 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] LEO Pack Antennas Questions
Message-ID: <CA+m6R0_zJD4TBkOtX3av3e5J345f0XQ+R7kfqyiAfCTp9CmNyg@mail.gmail.com>

Just a couple questions about the M2 LEO Pack antennas.

1. Does the "pack" include the cross-boom?
2. Has M2 made switches available yet to facilitate LH and RH circular
polarization?

Thanks.

-- 
73 de Jeff

From propgrinder at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 01:04:22 2020
From: propgrinder at gmail.com (Bob Hammond)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 18:04:22 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] LEO Pack Antennas Questions
In-Reply-To: <CA+m6R0_zJD4TBkOtX3av3e5J345f0XQ+R7kfqyiAfCTp9CmNyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+m6R0_zJD4TBkOtX3av3e5J345f0XQ+R7kfqyiAfCTp9CmNyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKoB7OoWz4nr+xE-BOygENa9MQY6ZmfEx3GkbooOOV9zmho16A@mail.gmail.com>

Jeff, what is your callsign?

Yes, the M2 LEOpack comes with a boom.  https://www.m2inc.com/FGLEOPACK
Yes, they have polarity switches for both:
https://www.m2inc.com/FGPS70CM
https://www.m2inc.com/FGPS2MCP8A

Bob W7OTJ

On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 5:48 PM Jeff Davis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Just a couple questions about the M2 LEO Pack antennas.
>
> 1. Does the "pack" include the cross-boom?
> 2. Has M2 made switches available yet to facilitate LH and RH circular
> polarization?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> 73 de Jeff
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From jeff at ke9v.net  Fri Aug 21 01:28:20 2020
From: jeff at ke9v.net (Jeff Davis)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 21:28:20 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] LEO Pack Antennas Questions
In-Reply-To: <CAKoB7OoWz4nr+xE-BOygENa9MQY6ZmfEx3GkbooOOV9zmho16A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+m6R0_zJD4TBkOtX3av3e5J345f0XQ+R7kfqyiAfCTp9CmNyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKoB7OoWz4nr+xE-BOygENa9MQY6ZmfEx3GkbooOOV9zmho16A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+m6R09C1G+DF5GbpDgi61zCPSUQksv-MNXZL2zWNsRO=VERyA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the answers Bob.

73, Jeff

On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 9:21 PM Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Jeff, what is your callsign?
>
> Yes, the M2 LEOpack comes with a boom.  https://www.m2inc.com/FGLEOPACK
> Yes, they have polarity switches for both:
> https://www.m2inc.com/FGPS70CM
> https://www.m2inc.com/FGPS2MCP8A
>
> Bob W7OTJ
>
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 5:48 PM Jeff Davis via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Just a couple questions about the M2 LEO Pack antennas.
> >
> > 1. Does the "pack" include the cross-boom?
> > 2. Has M2 made switches available yet to facilitate LH and RH circular
> > polarization?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > --
> > 73 de Jeff
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
73 de Jeff

From n4csitwo at bellsouth.net  Fri Aug 21 03:09:19 2020
From: n4csitwo at bellsouth.net (David Jordan)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 03:09:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] ARISS News Release No. 20-12
References: <1059428951.4024794.1597979359585.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1059428951.4024794.1597979359585@mail.yahoo.com>


?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

?

?

ARISS News Release??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????? No.?? 20-12??????

Dave Jordan, AA4KN 

ARISS PR

aa4kn at amsat.org

??

FORIMMEDIATE RELEASE

?

?

ARISS Contact Scheduledfor Students, Faculty at i-Educate Conference, 

Hosted byQueensland Government Department of Education, Brisbane, Australia

?

August20, 2020?Amateur Radio on the International Space Station (ARISS) has receivedschedule confirmation for an ARISS radio contact with astronauts. ARISS is thegroup that puts together special amateur radio contacts between students aroundthe globe and crew members with ham radio licenses on the International Space Station (ISS). 

?

This will be a telebridge contact via amateur radio and studentswill take turns asking their questions of ISS Commander Chris Cassidy, amateur radio callsign KF5KDR. There will be a live closed videolink, and 500 educators tied into the conference will watch the students. FredKemmerer, call sign AB1OC, in New Hampshire (USA) will serve as the relayground station. Shane Lynd, call sign VK4KHZ in Australia will be themoderator. Bob Pitman, call signVK4DA in Australia will distribute live audio via Echolink *HAM* ?69556, IRLP 9556, and AllStar 48820 49903.

?

The ARISS radio contact is scheduled for August24, 2020 at 7:32 pm in Brisbane (09:32 UTC,?5:32 am EDT,?4:32 amCDT, 03:32 am MDT and 02:32 am PDT).

?

This contact is in conjunction with the online i-Educate 2020 Conference sponsored by the Department of Education,Queensland Government in Brisbane, Australia. The purpose of the weeklong conferenceis for school digital leaders to present interactive solutions in online workshopsettings to demonstrate to educators and school staff how to enrich technology-learningoutcomes in classrooms and increase STEM availability awareness in schools. ????

???? 

_____________________________.

?

Astime allows, students will ask these questions:

?

1. What was the mainambition or reason for going to the ISS in the first place? 

2. What was it likesee space for the first time?

3. Do you ever havearguments?

4. Did you have anyissues (personal, technical) whilst flying up towards the ISS?

5. Was your childhooddream being a pilot and this is the progression, or did you always dream ofgoing into space?

6. What mindset doyou need to have to be an astronaut? 

7. How did you becomeinterested in being an astronaut?

8. Circa what year doyou predict space hotels will be physically possible to achieve? And do youthink these space stations are the first steps towards developing said hotels?

9. When you are inspace, you orbit the Earth incredibly fast. Because of this, has yourperception of time changed since being in space? If so, how is it different? 

10. How do you keeppersonal hygiene up to standards e.g. how you go for a shower/bath, toilet, andshaving?

11. Have you had alife threatening experience on the space station? 

12. How does it feelto be isolated in space, knowing there isn?t anyone else around you exceptyourself and fellow crew mates? 

13. During yourlaunch windows there have been several technical delays, how do you deal withthe build-up and then let down of your emotions in these events? 

14. What will youmiss the most about life on the ISS when you return to Earth?

15. You were a NavySeal, what brought you across to NASA and spaceflight?

16. What is it likegoing on a spacewalk for the first time?

17. How do youmaintain a positive mindset and good mental health in space, for example withthe global pandemic of COVID-19 how are you coping with being such a distanceaway from the people you love and care about?

18. What were youremotions during lift off?

?

?

About ARISS:

Amateur Radio on the InternationalSpace Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radiosocieties and the space agencies that support the International Space Station(ISS).? In the United States, sponsorsare the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio RelayLeague (ARRL), the ISS National Lab-Space Station Explorers, and NASA?s SpaceCommunications and Navigation program. The primary goal of ARISS is to promoteexploration of science, technology, engineering, the arts, and mathematicstopics by organizing scheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew membersaboard the ISS and students. Before and during these radio contacts, students,educators, parents, and communities learn about space, space technologies, andamateur radio. For more information, see www.ariss.org


MediaContact:



DaveJordan, AA4KN

ARISSPR

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Likeus on Facebook. Follow us on Twitter. Search on Amateur Radio on the ISS and at ARISS_status. 


From w3ab at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 21 03:55:37 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 20:55:37 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO & Geo Orbits,
In-Reply-To: <ef6e0b2f-c45d-ad27-c1b4-2fee999114b1@amsat.org>
References: <d5aed227-4eba-7009-7056-c407846a4151@mwt.net>
	<68751ce1-4472-4826-8f75-20bbdbb1d9df@yahoo.com>
	<83132780-6941-706c-f2d1-4dc4056f664d@k6ccc.org>
	<ef6e0b2f-c45d-ad27-c1b4-2fee999114b1@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <efdb829a-dcb0-4e34-abc9-aad8ea3e8bf9@yahoo.com>

Jerry,

Thank you for your clarification. I for one appreciates it.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Aug 20, 2020, 17:44, at 17:44, Jerry Buxton via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>On 8/19/2020 22:51, Jim Walls via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>> It may not have been YOUR suggestion, but I recall that one has been
>> answered.? As I recall reading here, AMSAT HAS been in contact with
>> various launch providers.? And no, I'm not going to do the research
>> for you to find it (I don't keep all messages on this reflector). 
>True.? And many of the new LV companies have contacted us/me regarding
>their services both new and in development.
>These are the movers and shakers although that definition probably
>varies with the individuals who ask this question and my use of it
>here.
>
>With the current demand for small satellite launches to LEO and the
>situation regarding orbital debris, most of the new entries into the
>launch industry are targeting low, Low Earth Orbit of 450-500 km.?
>There
>are two good reasons for that.? One, these orbits take less fuel
>mass/volume and smaller engines to reach.? Two these orbits provide
>maybe 2-3 years of orbit lifetime which is favorable with the orbital
>debris regulations.
>In the latter, we are and have for many years been very good stewards
>of
>the orbital debris requirements with absolutely no rogue intentions and
>a record that has earned us opportunities to look for high orbits.? In
>the former, we don't wish to go to those altitudes right now and the
>clamor of public opinion here and elsewhere supports that point.
>And so, while I am happy in knowing that AMSAT has a reputation that
>warrants contact from at least some of these new movers and shakers,
>they are not able to help us at this time.
>
>There is also the process of gaining a ride on a launch vehicle and I
>think that a lot of our members probably consider the launch provider
>to
>be ULA, or SpaceX, ISRO, or our latest with Virgin Orbit.? And in all
>four (covering five launches), Fox-1A & Fox-1B, Fox-1Cliff, Fox-1D, and
>Fox-1E, respectively, in none of the launches is AMSAT dealing directly
>with any of those launch vehicle providers.? Launch providers are NASA
>through the ELaNa program on ULA and VO and Spaceflight through their
>rideshare contracts with ISRO and SpaceX.? Further, we then work with
>the payload integrator for that launch, Cal Poly, Tyvak, and TriSept
>for
>the ELaNa launches and another division of Spaceflight for their ISRO
>and SpaceX launches (that we purchased).
>
>I have had the pleasure of meeting folks who work for ULA and SpaceX,
>and look forward to the same with Virgin Orbit soon, at integration but
>none are anywhere near the top of their corporation especially in the
>context that I think "movers and shakers" is meant with these
>corporations.
>Short of an invitation to a gala or otherwise someone who knows any of
>those company senior officers or directors, there is no chance to ask
>if
>they can extend a hand to AMSAT and just get us a ride please because
>we
>are a bunch of good guys and gals.? And I have been in situations to
>ask
>those not that high up because hey, it never hurts to ask, right?? And
>their answer if any usually is exactly what works so well for their
>industry; that we should contact one of the launch providers.
>
>Consider what it might be like, were we able to ask Tony Bruno for
>another ride on a ULA vehicle as a bit of a favor toward the good
>things
>that us bunch of good guys and gals do for a sliver of the world
>population, and he said yes!
>I don't mean what it might be like for us, although that probably
>follows a lot like what it would be like for ULA; having given a small
>group a favor of a million dollars of launch in an act of compassion
>and
>charity, and it being quite public of course since AMSAT has trouble
>staying mum even when specifically told to by launch providers,
>suddenly
>15,000 other organizations who deem themselves worthy of Tony or Elon
>or
>Sir Richard sharing a bit of that type of charity with them come out of
>the woodwork and bombard them with requests.? That later turn into
>demands, that later turn into vilification...
>Of course they then include AMSAT in that vilification because we got
>something they can't have and that's not fair!
>And we have all seen classic examples of all three of that progression
>of love and teamwork on -bb lately, so you know what I mean.
>
>My money is on Tony and the others most certainly having considered
>that
>same scenario no matter who asks the favor, and that's why even if you
>or I got to have two minutes with any of them at a gala some night it's
>very likely that they will refer us to a launch provider, maybe put in
>a
>plug for their favorite since they know now that we talked that we are
>just a bunch of good guys and gals.? I'll also bet a small amount that
>it is the reason that Elon launched his car, since the questions came
>up
>about how ham radio could have been there and why not, at that time
>too.? Can't upset anyone by using that space for a great big publicity
>stunt, eh?
>
>As Joe mentioned in his reply to GEO (George?) he is not the first to
>ask and we have been in contact and remain active with our connections
>and new connections that come along in the launch game.? We would not
>be
>doing our job if we did not and besides, it's part of the fun of this
>aspect of amateur radio to have the standing to be able to meet and
>talk
>to many different folks about (especially) cheap rides to places very
>high up.? Ask any of our launch providers and at least privately,
>because of their NDAs of course, they might share the fact that have
>and
>continue to ask and explore opportunities, even those that might be a
>"what if" just to look for any openings.
>
>Of course few of you know all of this, and it probably only comes up in
>detail when this question inevitably comes around again.? I mention or
>allude to it in the Journal or talks now and then, but of course none
>of
>it is even in detail until something is signed.? Only fools brag about
>that which they do not yet hold in their hand, or at least I think
>that's true because I have burned myself and embarrassed others
>(organizations too) by being too confident.
>
>I'll QRT with little aside, the meeting that I will remember best out
>of
>all of them in our adventures to orbit is the one at the Fox-1A (AO-85)
>launch, which was an Air Force launch carrying NRO stuff on a ULA
>rocket
>(so you kinda get the big launch provider picture I mentioned).?
>The Captain in charge of that Air Force mission was there and I got to
>talk to him at the launch party.? His name?? Captain Kirk.?
>This part of the amateur radio hobby just doesn't get any more fun than
>that.
>
>73, and thank you all for your support.
>
>Jerry Buxton, N?JY
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From pgprendergast at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 21 11:33:52 2020
From: pgprendergast at yahoo.com (Pgprendergast)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 07:33:52 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Bod meetings
References: <CE1DDF2C-6A06-4D35-AEB4-C85B4EABD17D.ref@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CE1DDF2C-6A06-4D35-AEB4-C85B4EABD17D@yahoo.com>


After reading many posts it appears many confuse the purpose of a bod. 

The frequent calls for frequent meetings suggest that many people feel the bod is a so called operations committee instead of what a bod is supposed to be.  

The bod should only set the mission vision and values of the organization. Further the bod is exclusively responsible for holding the directors and officers accountable for delivering on those goals. 

If the bod has to meet ?frequently ? then something is amiss 

Some current bod members clearly demonstrate a lack of understanding between engaging in operations and providing leadership 

Peter
W2PP 
Life Member 
Sent from my iPhone

From pinoleronica at hotmail.com  Fri Aug 21 18:42:56 2020
From: pinoleronica at hotmail.com (Rafael Pena)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 18:42:56 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] DIWATA-2B (PO-101) - Tone setting in SubTone.sqf
In-Reply-To: <mailman.13467.1597975101.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.13467.1597975101.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <DM5PR03MB3228E8D8B0B62662E2FE28E7C65B0@DM5PR03MB3228.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Charles, it worked this time!    I had rem out one in lieu of the other (the one you provided).   I reset it. I've just worked a pass of the sat (though briefly)...

73 / Rafael / NN3RP


Message: 5
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 19:52:56 -0400
From: Charles Reiche <charlieray at gmail.com>
To: Rafael Pena <pinoleronica at hotmail.com>
Cc: "amsat-bb at amsat.org" <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] DIWATA-2B (PO-101) - Tone setting in
        SubTone.sqf
Message-ID:
        <CAMkCmDrk44fL9HgBhBG0-WQOyU_nbrRc77aaUtHZzDjw2j+scg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi Rafael,

I've been using:

PO-101,141.3,$3F,1

and it works on my 9700.

Make sure "PO-101" is the full name in your keps file or rename your
subtone.sqf entry to match the keps name
Parameter 3 and 4 ($3F and after) should be ignored by the software as
those are for Yaesu and Kenwood.


73
N3CRT
Charles Reiche


On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 7:45 PM Rafael Pena via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

>
> This might have been discuss / addressed before.   I tried searching the
> BB but I could not find a search engine?
>
> I am using new Icom 9700 (yeay!) and I have not been able to TX on the
> above subject sat.   The T for tone in the software comes on automatically
> with T1.  My Tone setting in the SubTone.sqf file is:
>
> PO-101,141.3,$08,22
>
> I also use:  PO-101,141.3,$3F,1
>  to no avail.
>
> Any tips are appreciated.
>
> Rafael / NN3RP
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From penguin359 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 00:27:14 2020
From: penguin359 at gmail.com (Loren M. Lang)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 17:27:14 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] A few minor nit-picks about the AMSAT Status webpage
Message-ID: <CACymvmeQvCOxjnrGq==m5RHi3bvmxYL0KyJjM6VYQJCvg9ugdw@mail.gmail.com>

Nothing major, just a few small nitpicky items I noticed while developing
my App for the AMSAT Status webpage. The first is that the quarter hours
are not perfectly equal. That they are listed as:

:00-15
:16-30
:31-45
:46-59

I popped out because it didn't quite align with my time-picker widget that
goes 0, 15, 30, 45. The minutes should really be either:

00-14
15-29
30-44
45-59

Or:

01-15
16-30
31-45
46-00

If they are all perfectly 15 minutes long. My widget automatically selects
the current quarter hour when it's loaded. Though, it is a pretty minor
issue.

The other item I would like to see changed is the return of a test
satellite or two. There used to be AO-98 and AO-99, I believe, before those
numbers became real satellites that were advertised as being for testing
purposes. It would be nice to have something I could put in there for
testing that would also be select-able from the AMSAT API at
/status/api/v1/sat_info.php that I could use to provide automated testing
of my App. It doesn't necessarily have to show on the main page as long as
I can pull it back down through the API so I can automate release testing
whenever I provide an update.

Thanks for providing this great service!

73s,
-Loren
K7IW

From n4csitwo at bellsouth.net  Sat Aug 22 03:54:09 2020
From: n4csitwo at bellsouth.net (David Jordan)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 03:54:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] ARISS News Release No. 20-12
References: <1184987813.4372655.1598068449212.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1184987813.4372655.1598068449212@mail.yahoo.com>


? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??

?

?

ARISS News Release??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????? No.?? 20-12??????

Dave Jordan, AA4KN 

ARISS PR

aa4kn at amsat.org

?

?

?

FORIMMEDIATE RELEASE

?

?

ARISS Contact Scheduledfor Students, Faculty at i-Educate Conference, 

Hosted byQueensland Government Department of Education, Brisbane, Australia

?

August20, 2020?Amateur Radio on the International Space Station (ARISS) has receivedschedule confirmation for an ARISS radio contact with astronauts. ARISS is thegroup that puts together special amateur radio contacts between students aroundthe globe and crew members with ham radio licenses on the International Space Station (ISS). 

?

This will be a telebridge contact via amateur radio and studentswill take turns asking their questions of ISS Commander Chris Cassidy, amateur radio callsign KF5KDR. There will be a live closed videolink, and 500 educators tied into the conference will watch the students. FredKemmerer, call sign AB1OC, in New Hampshire (USA) will serve as the relayground station. Shane Lynd, call sign VK4KHZ in Australia will be themoderator. Bob Pitman, call signVK4DA in Australia will distribute live audio via Echolink *HAM* ?69556, IRLP 9556, and AllStar 48820 49903.

?

The ARISS radio contact is scheduled for August24, 2020 at 7:32 pm in Brisbane (09:32 UTC,?5:32 am EDT,?4:32 amCDT, 03:32 am MDT and 02:32 am PDT).

?

This contact is in conjunction with the online i-Educate 2020 Conference sponsored by the Department of Education,Queensland Government in Brisbane, Australia. The purpose of the weeklong conferenceis for school digital leaders to present interactive solutions in online workshopsettings to demonstrate to educators and school staff how to enrich technology-learningoutcomes in classrooms and increase STEM availability awareness in schools. ????


_____________________________.

?

Astime allows, students will ask these questions:

?

1. What was the mainambition or reason for going to the ISS in the first place? 

2. What was it likesee space for the first time?

3. Do you ever havearguments?

4. Did you have anyissues (personal, technical) whilst flying up towards the ISS?

5. Was your childhooddream being a pilot and this is the progression, or did you always dream ofgoing into space?

6. What mindset doyou need to have to be an astronaut? 

7. How did you becomeinterested in being an astronaut?

8. Circa what year doyou predict space hotels will be physically possible to achieve? And do youthink these space stations are the first steps towards developing said hotels?

9. When you are inspace, you orbit the Earth incredibly fast. Because of this, has yourperception of time changed since being in space? If so, how is it different? 

10. How do you keeppersonal hygiene up to standards e.g. how you go for a shower/bath, toilet, andshaving?

11. Have you had alife threatening experience on the space station? 

12. How does it feelto be isolated in space, knowing there isn?t anyone else around you exceptyourself and fellow crew mates? 

13. During yourlaunch windows there have been several technical delays, how do you deal withthe build-up and then let down of your emotions in these events? 

14. What will youmiss the most about life on the ISS when you return to Earth?

15. You were a NavySeal, what brought you across to NASA and spaceflight?

16. What is it likegoing on a spacewalk for the first time?

17. How do youmaintain a positive mindset and good mental health in space, for example withthe global pandemic of COVID-19 how are you coping with being such a distanceaway from the people you love and care about?

18. What were youremotions during lift off?

?

?

About ARISS:

Amateur Radio on the InternationalSpace Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radiosocieties and the space agencies that support the International Space Station(ISS).? In the United States, sponsorsare the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio RelayLeague (ARRL), the ISS National Lab-Space Station Explorers, and NASA?s SpaceCommunications and Navigation program. The primary goal of ARISS is to promoteexploration of science, technology, engineering, the arts, and mathematicstopics by organizing scheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew membersaboard the ISS and students. Before and during these radio contacts, students,educators, parents, and communities learn about space, space technologies, andamateur radio. For more information, see www.ariss.org



.


?

MediaContact:

DaveJordan, AA4KN

ARISSPR

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Likeus on Facebook. Follow us on Twitter. Search on Amateur Radio on the ISS and at ARISS_status. 


From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 20:45:00 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 13:45:00 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Next steps for open source satellite regulatory relief
Message-ID: <CACvjz2Vq1VevHU2k1rp9aEpp5aYzw=j2G9vEtfPEFkHn+8WOvw@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings all!

Next steps for open source satellite regulatory relief, building on the
Final Determination letter from the US State Department, began Friday 21
August 2020.

1) A Commodity Classification Request to the US Commerce Department is
underway!

2) An Advisory Opinion request that this openly published work ceases to be
subject to the EAR will follow the classification request, and is already
underway as well.

The summary of the Commodity Jurisdiction request will eventually be
published by the State Department at
https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/?id=ddtc_kb_article_page&sys_id=6ea6afdcdbc36300529d368d7c96194b

And, our wonderful law firm says we are now able to publish the DS-4076.

Why?
1) info contained is already openly published
2) because the request was successful

The first reason is straightforward. Our designs and policies covered are
already published. This is not usually the case for a request. It is much
more common to have proprietary and confidential information presented for
a determination. There are "few to none" submission packets generally
published.

The second reason is because if a request is not successful then the
information contained within it may end up being controlled upon final
determination. So, if you publish before the final determination is made,
then there is a big risk that you have disclosed controlled information.

This was the most pressing reason not to publish the form until the
determination was made.

The lawyers did not recommend one way or another (let the State Department
Summary serve or publish the entire form in addition to the State
Department Summary). They left it up to those of us that commissioned the
work, which is customary. Since most of the team already wanted to release
the documents involved, the lawyers cleared the way, and we think it's a
good idea on general principals, it's at

https://github.com/phase4ground/documents/tree/master/Regulatory

Another part of the discussion with the law firm was how these results can
be best used by others. This has significant relevance in industry and
academia. Our goal is to make it as easy as possible to use the results.
There were three suggestions here.

1) Help people that have the money for it make additional similar filings.
2) Write about it in popular and technical press.
3) Write implementation guidelines and policies for others to adopt.

The goal of additional filings is to build a body of Final Determination
letters that solidly support open source work. This is somewhat similar to
the way patent portfolios work in commercial settings. It's the sort of
thing AMSAT can really help with, given the connections and legacy.

Writing about the determination helps build momentum and confidence. This
includes but is not limited to conference proceedings, newspaper tech
sections, and blogs.

"How to Comply" checklist and set of policies at a minimum would help
technical organizations snap into the zone. Making this accessible through
clear guidelines is, to me, a necessary step. The law firm will review them
before they are published.

This effort gives direct and large benefits to AMSAT in particular. It
allows free and open international collaboration, dramatically reduces
legal risks, increases the potential volunteer corps, simplifies
fundraising, and reduces management burdens.

The work applies to orbits besides GEO and technology besides DVB-S2/X.
Those that "insist" on extremely narrow final determinations can write
their own Commodity Jurisdictions requests and expect to get the same
result because they can use this one directly in their request as a
reference. As said before, additional filings would be of great benefit to
the community because a population of results strengthens the case for open
source work. However, additional filings are not strictly necessary to
completely reverse the ITAR/EAR situation at AMSAT.

The key to using this result, or any like it, is that the public domain
carve out is solid and provides a bright path out of a bad place. In order
to use it, one has to commit to open source policies and follow the law
with regard to what constitutes publishing. You do have to avoid the things
we specifically avoided. Those are going to be highlighted in the
guidelines. They are things that AMSAT engineering does not do in the first
place and will pose no impediment.

This final determination letter doesn't relieve anyone of having to file
for a license to take hardware out of the country, but that isn't
impossibly hard either. The word from experienced commercial and amateur
satellite builders is that the heavy lifting has been done and we are in a
"very improved" state.

There are several organizations that have gotten in touch about this to
collaborate and/or take advantage of it. I will do my best to get traction
in the commercial and industrial world as well as amateur and academic. I
will not give up until we have a situation where there is the absolute
minimum regulatory fear and risk for amateur volunteers, and we get the
maximum amount of free and open international technical cooperation.

This sort of work is the least I can do to pay it forward. Amateur radio
was the reason engineering became my vocation. Amateur radio is responsible
for a great deal of my personal success.

Thank you to those that have supported this effort. To everyone that voted
for me for AMSAT Director, this is what I was talking about delivering to
you as part of my campaign. I have faith that the organization will take
full advantage of it.

-Michelle W5NYV

From ki7unj at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 00:00:00 2020
From: ki7unj at gmail.com (KI7UNJ Tucker)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 17:00:00 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] ANS-236 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletins
Message-ID: <CAPFr_UmQeb6WaxrDvTeqnMoaG+xOgL1-5UmMcLoBjYz_3dsw=w@mail.gmail.com>

AMSAT NEWS SERVICE
ANS-236


The AMSAT News Service bulletins are a free, weekly news and
information service of AMSAT North America, The Radio
Amateur Satellite Corporation.  ANS publishes news related to Amateur
Radio in space including reports on the activities of a worldwide
group of Amateur Radio operators who share an active interest in
designing, building, launching and communicating through analog and
digital Amateur Radio satellites.

The news feed on http://amsat.org publishes news of Amateur Radio
in space as soon as our volunteers can post it.

Please send any amateur satellite news or reports to:
ans-editor at amsat dot org.


In this edition:

* Ballot Return Date is September 15
* Two-Minute Engineering Video Update Available
* New Distance Records
* ORI's Digital Microwave Broadband Communication System Determined to
be Free of ITAR
* SmallSat 2020 Virtual Conference Proceedings Available Online
* Upcoming Satellite Operations
* ARISS News
* Satellite Shorts from All Over


SB SAT @ AMSAT $ANS-236.01
ANS-236 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletins

AMSAT News Service Bulletin 236.01
>From AMSAT HQ KENSINGTON, MD.
August 23, 2020
To All RADIO AMATEURS
BID: $ANS-236.01



--------------------------------------------------------------------

Ballot Return Date is September 15

With four weeks of balloting remaining, I think a reminder of
procedures is warranted.

Ballots for the AMSAT board of directors election must be received
by 5 p.m. US Eastern Time on Tuesday, September 15. If you have
received your ballot and wish to vote, please mail your ballot
with sufficient time to arrive by this time.

If you have not received your ballot and were a member of AMSAT on
July 1, please email me at brennanprice at verizon.net to request a
replacement ballot. All such requests that were made by today
(Monday, August 17) have been fulfilled no later than today.

A note to non-US based members: The printed return envelope does
not specify that the return address is in the United States. The
design of the envelope (my effort alone) may be fairly criticized
on this basis. Several non-US members have added USA to the printed
return address and successfully returned the ballot. This is my
recommended remedy, but if for whatever reason it's too late for
that (and I know of one such case), I will gladly send a replacement
(as I have in said case).

I am verifying envelopes against the voter list and keeping them
unopened until the time of counting, when they will be opened face
down and separated from the ballot without immediate counting to
maintain secrecy. This is a key part of verifying that each ballot
going out generates no more than one ballot coming back in.
Presumably out of an understandable but self-defeating desire to
ensure the secrecy of the ballot beyond this procedure, about ten
members have sought to obscure the return address or use a different
envelope, either with no return address or a different return address.

In all but one of those cases, the printed address was
insufficiently obscured, or the alternate address was traceable to
a member who had not yet voted. The attention required to verify the
nonconforming envelope in each case substantially exceeded the
attention normally necessary, and actually increased the possibility
of me inadvertently discerning the contents without opening the
envelope through inspection I would ordinarily forego. Nevertheless,
these envelopes have been accepted for eventual accounting.

[ANS thanks Brennan Price, N4QX, AMSAT Secretary for
the above information.]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

         Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, the AMSAT office
    is closed until further notice. For details, please visit
  https://www.amsat.org/amsat-office-closed-until-further-notice/

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

Two-Minute Engineering Video Update Available

Jerry Buxton, N0JY, Vice President-Engineering has published a two-
minute video update on the progress of AMSAT projects. Among the
highlights are:

- The RadFxSat-2 / Fox-1E satellite is ready for delivery and
  integration and is expected to launch by the end of the year.
- The University of Maine will use an AMSAT LTM-1 module for command
  and control of their upcoming CubeSat mission, MESAT-1. The LTM-1
  also provides a linear transponder for amateur radio use. AMSAT is
  in discussions with additional partners about flying LTM-1 modules.
- Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, vendors have been delayed in
  supplying printed circuit boards for the GOLF-TEE project. The
  impact of the pandemic has also affected the amount of time
  AMSAT's volunteer engineers have for their hobby work. Completion
  of GOLF-TEE is expected by the end of June 2021.
- Dependent on fulfilling its primary mission, the GOLF-TEE satellite
  may include a X-band downlink parrot of the V-band uplink and L/S
  band uplinks which are planned for GOLF-1.
- Research is underway to place GOLF-1 into a higher orbit while
  meeting regulatory requirements.
- GOLF-TEE is a candidate for a launch on an upcoming DoD mission.

 You can view Jerry's update at: https://youtu.be/9H4iM1hoVG4.

[ANS thanks Jerry Buxton, N0JY, Vice President-Engineering for the
above information.]

--------------------------------------------------------------------

New Distance Records

Congratulations to Jerome LeCuyer, F4DXV and Joseph Werth, KE9AJ on
extending their record distance on AO-7 by another 140 km! The new
record stands at 8,204.592 km. KE9AJ was in DM79IQ58 and F4DXV was in
JN14CH76.

Jerome also claimed two other records during his trip to JN14. First,
on 10-Aug-2020, he worked VE1VOX in Nova Scotia on AO-92, a distance
of 5,011 km. Three days later, a QSO with Nathan White, N5LEX in FN11
set a new record distance covered of 6,183 km on AO-91. The QSO
occurred at 13:37 UTC on 13-Aug-2020.

[ANS thanks Paul Stoetzer, N8MH, AMSAT Executive Vice President for
the above information.]

--------------------------------------------------------------------

ORI's Digital Microwave Broadband Communication System Determined to
be Free of ITAR

The United States Department of State has ruled favorably on Open
Research Institute's commodity jurisdiction request, finding that
specified ?Information and Software for a Digital Microwave Broadband
Communications System for Space and Terrestrial Amateur Radio Use? is
not subject to State Department jurisdiction under ITAR, the
International Traffic in Arms Regulations.

Export regulations divide both technical information and actual
hardware into three categories. The most heavily restricted
technologies fall under ITAR, which is administered by the State
Department. Technologies subject to more routine restrictions fall
under EAR, the Export Administration Regulations, administered by the
Department of Commerce. Technologies that are not subject to either
set of regulations are not restricted for export.

On 20 February 2020, Open Research Institute (ORI) filed a Commodity
Jurisdiction (CJ) Request with the US State Department, seeking to
establish that key technologies for amateur radio are not subject to
State Department jurisdiction. ?Information and Software for a Digital
Microwave Broadband Communications System for Space and Terrestrial
Amateur Radio Use? was assigned the case number CJ0003120. On 11
August 2020, the case received a successful final determination: the
technology is not subject to State Department jurisdiction.

The Final Determination letter can be found at
https://tinyurl.com/ANS-236-ORI

[ANS thanks Open Research Institute, Inc., for the above information]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

AMSAT's GOLF Program is about getting back to higher orbits, and it
all begins with GOLF-TEE - a technology demonstrator for deployable
solar panels, propulsion, and attitude control. Come along for the
ride. The journey will be worth it!

                  https://tinyurl.com/ANS-GOLF

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

SmallSat 2020 Virtual Conference Proceedings Available Online

The 34th Annual Small Satellite Conference was a virtual event hosted
by SmallSat.org and Utah State University, Logan, Utah.  The event
attracted 8,100 participants over three days August 1-3, 2020. With
the conference theme, "Space Mission Architectures - Infinite
Possibilities", the conference explored the realm of possible space
mission architectures and how they can be practically achieved to
support the diverse needs of the global space community.

Organized along twelve technical tracks, all 162 presentations are
available to the public.  Additionally, literally hundreds of posters
can be downloaded for viewing. Especially useful is a search function
on the site that can search keywords to help find presentation and
posters that deal with specific topics.

For those interested in the future of small satellites, including
those in the Amateur Radio Satellite Service, there is one especially
pertinent presentation entitled " Small Satellite Regulation in 2020"
with attorneys Lynne Montgomery and Christopher Bair of Wilkinson
Barker Knauer LLP. In this twelve minute presentation,
Ms. Montgomery thoroughly covers the range of regulations affecting
small satellite operations, the agencies involved, licensing
procedures and what future legal burdens are looming for small
satellite operators.

The complete collection of presentations and posters can be seen at:
https://smallsat.org/.

[ANS thanks SmallSat.org for the above information.]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

    Need new satellite antennas? Purchase Arrows, Alaskan Arrows,
   and M2 LEO-Packs from the AMSAT Store. When you purchase through
          AMSAT, a portion of the proceeds goes towards
                 Keeping Amateur Radio in Space.
           https://amsat.org/product-category/hardware/

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

Upcoming Satellite Operations

* Quick Hits:

DM97/98 & EM08/09, 8/29 & 8/30: Super Rover @ADoDX is heading out
for the Kansas QSO party and N0E. More to come.

* Major Roves:

@WA9JBQ is heading out to Idaho DN24,DN25,DN26 DN34, DN16, DN15, and
DN14 starting August 15th. Then moving into Montana for DN35,DN36,
DN37, DN38 DN49 DN47. He will be out a total of 5-6 weeks. Mostly
FM some linear. Will post to twitter details.

[ANS thanks Paul Overn, KE0PBR for the above information.]

--------------------------------------------------------------------

ARISS News

* Upcoming Contacts:

Kopernik Observatory & Science Center, Vestal, NY, direct via K2ZRO

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be NA1SS
The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR
Contact is go for: Wed 2020-08-19 18:21:55 UTC 85 deg


Watch for live stream starting about 20 to 30 minutes ahead
of AOS at: https://youtu.be/1Pwcc2rilz0


[ANS thanks Charlie Sufana, AJ9N  for the above information.]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

   AMSAT, along with our ARISS partners, is developing an amateur
   radio package, including two-way communication capability, to
           be carried on-board Gateway in lunar orbit.

   Support AMSAT's projects today at https://www.amsat.org/donate/

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

Shorts from All Over

* NASA At Home Offerings Updated Regularly

As was reported before, NASA continually offers a variety of videos,
podcasts, virtual tours, e-books and activities.  This service has
offerings that are of interest to adults as well as students with an
interest in space exploration.  The lineup changes weekly so, if you
haven't been back in a while, take a moment to see the current
assortment at:
https://www.nasa.gov/specials/nasaathome/index.html

[ANS thanks NASA for the above information.]

* Build a Simple ISS Tracker with Raspberry Pi

Fancy tracking the ISS?s trajectory? Looking for a project beyond
using your smart phone app? All you need is a Raspberry Pi, an
e-paper display, an enclosure, and a little Python code. Check out
The MagPi Magazine issue #96.  The download is free and can be
found at: https://magpi.raspberrypi.org/issues/96.

[ANS thanks RaspberryPi.org for the above information.]

*ARS Technica Review Launch Prospects

ARS reviews four smallsat rockets that might launch this year:
Astra (this month?), Firefly (November?), Virgin Orbit (EOY?),
 and ExPace?s Kuaizhou-11 (?). Read it at https://bit.ly/3gkyLv6.

[ANS thanks The Orbital Index for the above information]

*Faster Than the Speed of Light?
If you?re a fan of science fiction, chances are you've
encountered spaceships that use a warp drive, ?fold space,?
or ?jump? drive. Unfortunately, the immutable laws of physics
tell us that this is simply not possible. Those same laws,
however, also tell us that near-light-speed travel comes
with all sorts of challenges. Luckily for all of us, NASA
addresses these in a recently-released animated video that
covers all the basics of interstellar travel! See it at:
https://youtu.be/l4u4wV_dOi0
[ANS thanks Universe Today for the above information]

*NASA Investigating Air Leak on ISS

NASA is tracking down the source of a minor air leak on the
International Space Station. Crewmembers of the station's
current Expedition 63 are in no immediate danger and will
spend the weekend in the orbiting laboratory's Russian segment,
inside the Zvezda service module, NASA officials said in an
update on Thursday, 20 August. Full story at https://bit.ly/34lVnZZ

[ANS thanks Space.com for the above information]


--------------------------------------------------------------------

In addition to regular membership, AMSAT offers membership in the
President's Club. Members of the President's Club, as sustaining
donors to AMSAT Project Funds, will be eligible to receive
additional benefits. Application forms are available from the
AMSAT office.

Primary and secondary school students are eligible for membership at
one-half the standard yearly rate. Post-secondary school students
enrolled in at least half time status shall be eligible for the
student rate for a maximum of six post-secondary years in this
status.

Contact Martha at the AMSAT office for additional student
membership information.

73,
This week's ANS Editor,
Casey Tucker, KI7UNJ
ki7unj at amsat dot org

Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author
and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.

Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!

From ks1g04 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 00:54:50 2020
From: ks1g04 at gmail.com (Stephan Greene)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 20:54:50 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] IC-9700 Remote Control
Message-ID: <CACZz0S1ft9P9h+PB-oTMZ+OGGApOM72QrzvCBDjPi94MXmbB4Q@mail.gmail.com>

Looking at setting up a remote base satellite station to escape local
increasing RFI, foliage, adverse terrain etc... I've been studying
successful implementations using TS2000, FlexRadios, etc.and software
SatPC32, FLRig, DXCommander, VNC, NX, etc... and may end up going one of
those ways.  Also looking at IC-9700.

If you've successfully used an IC-9700 remotely, please email me direct.
What software are you using, remote access method, additional accessories
or items you found particularly handy.

Thanks in advance!  73 de KS1G

From yono_adisoemarta at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 23 04:09:46 2020
From: yono_adisoemarta at yahoo.com (P. Suryono Adisoemarta)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2020 04:09:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Amateur operator courtesy on Satellite
References: <313891450.4567871.1598155786562.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <313891450.4567871.1598155786562@mail.yahoo.com>


So where is the amateur operator courtesy on Amateur Satellite ?


Apologize I'm going to vent-off after this morning's (23 Aug, 01:20 UTC) SSTV exercise on IO-86 satellite

First is a background of IO-86, which is the secondary (amateur radio) payload on Indonesia's LAPAN A2/ORARI that was completely designed by AMSAT-ID team with LAPAN's satellite design team.
This amateur payload was designed primarily to assist in disaster communication while regular communication lines are off utilizing only handheld radio (HT) with a simple beam antenna, thus the payload has a high-gain receiver antenna and relatively high power (5W) transmitter. IO-86 has performed flawlessly in several emergency communication (such as earthquake in Lombok, 2017, tsunami in Palu 2018 and flashflood in Masamba, 2020, all using HT).
To ensure availability of amateur radio operators ready for future emergency communication, AMSAT-ID has been conducting various communication exercises thru IO-86.
On top of Voice and APRS communication, IO-86 also supports SSTV mode where one can transmit pictures of the emergency location, thru the voice FM repeater.

So this morning, to mimic an immediate request for SSTV, part of Emergency Readiness component of IO-86, I transmit on IO-86 requesting all stations to standby, several times, to clear the frequency for SSTV transmission. But a high-power station, from a neighboring country,  kept overpowering IO-86 with his call for a QSO.
Repeated requests to standby are just kept being ignored.

So, where is the courtesy of amateur operators of a standby request? To stop transmitting and monitor the frequency as maybe there is another activity being conducted.

I'll share the lesson learns from the SSTV thru IO-86 exercise in another email

73 de Yono - YD0NXX
AMSAT-ID
Jakarta, Indonesia
 

From wandtosborne at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 02:00:59 2020
From: wandtosborne at gmail.com (Wendy and Terry Osborne)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2020 14:00:59 +1200
Subject: [amsat-bb] Next Rocket Lab Launch
Message-ID: <e88242bf-c6e8-fdaf-9a45-c3e57f6a8098@gmail.com>

Hi Folks,
Next Rocket Lab Launch is due Thurs 27th at 03:05 UTC.
See: https://twitter.com/RocketLab/status/1296886523212656641
Expect the launch to be streamed as usual.
There may be updates on their twitter feed during the week.

73,
Terry Osborne ZL2BAC


From va3mw at portcredit.net  Sun Aug 23 15:57:17 2020
From: va3mw at portcredit.net (Michael Walker)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2020 11:57:17 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] IC-9700 Remote Control
In-Reply-To: <CACZz0S1ft9P9h+PB-oTMZ+OGGApOM72QrzvCBDjPi94MXmbB4Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACZz0S1ft9P9h+PB-oTMZ+OGGApOM72QrzvCBDjPi94MXmbB4Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+33ts5F1g_14pgy4+B+q9aRxktbzpi04Znr9Ms4erE8Xtndrg@mail.gmail.com>

Stephan

I can tell you about Flex if you like.  I use a 6600M with 2 transverters
remote with SatPC32.  It is nice to have a much more detailed waterfall
than the IC-9700 (down to about 5hz/pixel).

I could do it with the IC-9700 I have, but the configuration is a bit more
complicated and I will actually be parting with the IC-9700 sometime soon
since I don't do any 1.2Ghz.

Mike va3mw


On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 11:03 AM Stephan Greene via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Looking at setting up a remote base satellite station to escape local
> increasing RFI, foliage, adverse terrain etc... I've been studying
> successful implementations using TS2000, FlexRadios, etc.and software
> SatPC32, FLRig, DXCommander, VNC, NX, etc... and may end up going one of
> those ways.  Also looking at IC-9700.
>
> If you've successfully used an IC-9700 remotely, please email me direct.
> What software are you using, remote access method, additional accessories
> or items you found particularly handy.
>
> Thanks in advance!  73 de KS1G
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From vu3tyg at yahoo.co.in  Mon Aug 24 04:24:43 2020
From: vu3tyg at yahoo.co.in (Nitin Muttin)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 04:24:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Amateur operator courtesy on Satellite
In-Reply-To: <313891450.4567871.1598155786562@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <313891450.4567871.1598155786562.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<313891450.4567871.1598155786562@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1015184428.3615409.1598243083620@mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Yono,
I have shared this in the VU satellite working group.
73
Nitin [VU3TYG] 

    On Sunday, 23 August, 2020, 08:40:15 pm IST, P. Suryono Adisoemarta via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 
So where is the amateur operator courtesy on Amateur Satellite ?


Apologize I'm going to vent-off after this morning's (23 Aug, 01:20 UTC) SSTV exercise on IO-86 satellite

First is a background of IO-86, which is the secondary (amateur radio) payload on Indonesia's LAPAN A2/ORARI that was completely designed by AMSAT-ID team with LAPAN's satellite design team.
This amateur payload was designed primarily to assist in disaster communication while regular communication lines are off utilizing only handheld radio (HT) with a simple beam antenna, thus the payload has a high-gain receiver antenna and relatively high power (5W) transmitter. IO-86 has performed flawlessly in several emergency communication (such as earthquake in Lombok, 2017, tsunami in Palu 2018 and flashflood in Masamba, 2020, all using HT).
To ensure availability of amateur radio operators ready for future emergency communication, AMSAT-ID has been conducting various communication exercises thru IO-86.
On top of Voice and APRS communication, IO-86 also supports SSTV mode where one can transmit pictures of the emergency location, thru the voice FM repeater.

So this morning, to mimic an immediate request for SSTV, part of Emergency Readiness component of IO-86, I transmit on IO-86 requesting all stations to standby, several times, to clear the frequency for SSTV transmission. But a high-power station, from a neighboring country,? kept overpowering IO-86 with his call for a QSO.
Repeated requests to standby are just kept being ignored.

So, where is the courtesy of amateur operators of a standby request? To stop transmitting and monitor the frequency as maybe there is another activity being conducted.

I'll share the lesson learns from the SSTV thru IO-86 exercise in another email

73 de Yono - YD0NXX
AMSAT-ID
Jakarta, Indonesia
 
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From jamdoriv at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 04:24:35 2020
From: jamdoriv at gmail.com (John E. Amdor IV)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2020 23:24:35 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] FOX-1D (AO-92) in safe mode
Message-ID: <B4F1DC07-8463-4E95-A472-8C047F33C53E@gmail.com>

Today (8/24) at ~4:16 UTC I was attempting to uplink to AO-92 when Veronica announced ?FOX-1 Delta, Safe Mode?. Does anyone know what put AO-92 in safe mode, and will this happen every night?

KE0NEV

From kb2ysi at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 12:36:19 2020
From: kb2ysi at gmail.com (Don KB2YSI)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 08:36:19 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] FOX-1D (AO-92) in safe mode
In-Reply-To: <B4F1DC07-8463-4E95-A472-8C047F33C53E@gmail.com>
References: <B4F1DC07-8463-4E95-A472-8C047F33C53E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAJiE8NRejveA729ToQo2r9JR8ccamg=gycXbKy-OvVxG7Ju0g@mail.gmail.com>

>From my very limited knowledge, the batteries are dropping to a voltage
during eclipse that safe mode is triggered to prevent the batteries from
discharging too far and thus preventing damage.  Once the satellite is back
into illumination it should return to normal operations once the batteries
have charged.

AGAIN, this is MY understanding of the situation, and in no way reflects an
officatial AMSAT response nor might be accurate.

On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 2:35 AM John E. Amdor IV via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Today (8/24) at ~4:16 UTC I was attempting to uplink to AO-92 when
> Veronica announced ?FOX-1 Delta, Safe Mode?. Does anyone know what put
> AO-92 in safe mode, and will this happen every night?
>
> KE0NEV
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
73,
Don KB2YSI
https://www.hamqth.com/kb2ysi

From nathanjwhite at frontier.com  Mon Aug 24 06:50:23 2020
From: nathanjwhite at frontier.com (nathanjwhite)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 06:50:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] FOX-1D (AO-92) in safe mode
In-Reply-To: <B4F1DC07-8463-4E95-A472-8C047F33C53E@gmail.com>
References: <B4F1DC07-8463-4E95-A472-8C047F33C53E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <362069836.5305571.1598251823710@mail.yahoo.com>




Hi John,?AO-92 has been experiencing?low battery voltage during?many night time passes over the last several weeks. While the satellite is in eclipse voltage has been dropping low enough (3.6v IIRC) to cause an automatic shift to safe mode. It emerges from eclipse toward?the end of night passes over North America and the transponder will then switch on, usually with a minute or two remaining in the pass. At this time as far as I know there is not any way to prevent?this as it appears to be due to a failing battery situation.
NateN5LEX



On Monday, August 24, 2020, 1:28 AM, John E. Amdor IV via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

Today (8/24) at ~4:16 UTC I was attempting to uplink to AO-92 when Veronica announced ?FOX-1 Delta, Safe Mode?. Does anyone know what put AO-92 in safe mode, and will this happen every night?

KE0NEV
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb




From glasbrenner at mindspring.com  Mon Aug 24 13:32:05 2020
From: glasbrenner at mindspring.com (Andrew Glasbrenner)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 09:32:05 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] FOX-1D (AO-92) in safe mode
In-Reply-To: <CAAJiE8NRejveA729ToQo2r9JR8ccamg=gycXbKy-OvVxG7Ju0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B4F1DC07-8463-4E95-A472-8C047F33C53E@gmail.com>
	<CAAJiE8NRejveA729ToQo2r9JR8ccamg=gycXbKy-OvVxG7Ju0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00d801d67a1a$f5c6c070$e1544150$@mindspring.com>

Hi Don,

All correct, except auto safe mode ends as soon as eclipse does, when the bus voltage goes over 3.6. The batteries will charge then for the next 60 minutes or so until the next eclipse.

As we move to winter in the northern hemisphere, the end of the eclipse should shift over the pole and to the beginning of the descending part of the orbit, and this issue should change for at least the northern hemisphere ops.

73, Drew KO4MA 
AMSAT VP Operations

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Don KB2YSI via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2020 8:36 AM
To: John E. Amdor IV <jamdoriv at gmail.com>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FOX-1D (AO-92) in safe mode

>From my very limited knowledge, the batteries are dropping to a voltage during eclipse that safe mode is triggered to prevent the batteries from discharging too far and thus preventing damage.  Once the satellite is back into illumination it should return to normal operations once the batteries have charged.

AGAIN, this is MY understanding of the situation, and in no way reflects an officatial AMSAT response nor might be accurate.

On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 2:35 AM John E. Amdor IV via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Today (8/24) at ~4:16 UTC I was attempting to uplink to AO-92 when 
> Veronica announced ?FOX-1 Delta, Safe Mode?. Does anyone know what put
> AO-92 in safe mode, and will this happen every night?
>
> KE0NEV
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available 
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. 
> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect 
> the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


--
73,
Don KB2YSI
https://www.hamqth.com/kb2ysi
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From ns3l at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 24 14:02:40 2020
From: ns3l at yahoo.com (Steve Nordahl)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 14:02:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] DMR TG 98006 & Fusion US-AMSAT links being disrupted by
 what appears to be two hotspots on the same freq.
References: <40252960.6632668.1598277760991.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <40252960.6632668.1598277760991@mail.yahoo.com>

I'm sure some of you who use either DMR Talk group 98006 or the Fusion US-AMSAT links have noticed over the last couple days, both the DMR TG98006 & Fusion US-AMSAT links are currently unusable & being disrupted by what appears to be a couple hotspots that have been activated by someone on the same frequency at one location. Basically repeating what ever they hear non-stop until the link times out.

Steve NS3L

From royldean at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 14:08:39 2020
From: royldean at gmail.com (Roy Dean)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 10:08:39 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Excel to ADIF
Message-ID: <CADGPg2sd+Mk+RzDsbr-Em5s3KtKKwsNJ2VkyeH-AVvn5Mj6zoA@mail.gmail.com>

So I have 4 pages of contacts I need to log, and I'm dreading it.    I
figured I may as well do myself a favor and write a spreadsheet that spits
out an ADIF file so that I don't have to create the ADIF with TQSL (which I
despise).   I don't use any other logging software, either - just pen and
legal pad (actually it's engineering paper this time).

Before I embark on this journey of frustration, has anybody already created
a satellite friendly excel (or better - libre office) file that converts
multiple contacts into a single ADIF?   Otherwise I'll share mine when I'm
eventually done (I have found a bunch that are non-satellite friendly).

--Roy
K3RLD

From dave at druidnetworks.com  Mon Aug 24 14:16:52 2020
From: dave at druidnetworks.com (David Swanson)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 09:16:52 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Excel to ADIF
In-Reply-To: <CADGPg2sd+Mk+RzDsbr-Em5s3KtKKwsNJ2VkyeH-AVvn5Mj6zoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADGPg2sd+Mk+RzDsbr-Em5s3KtKKwsNJ2VkyeH-AVvn5Mj6zoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANq+eyX04Pn1EggwMhbmGfhAv7Le=d1JiRhFoLhzzuYEAaV_GA@mail.gmail.com>

I did some stuff like this a few years ago - It's not directly from xls to
adif, but rather csv to adif, so should be able to work with excel or
really any spreadsheet. Details are here:

http://www.kg5cci.com/2016/12/logging-everything-to-lotw.html

It's just a basic perl script, but pretty flexible and I built it around
satellite contacts specifically.

-Dave, KG5CCI

On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 9:10 AM Roy Dean via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> So I have 4 pages of contacts I need to log, and I'm dreading it.    I
> figured I may as well do myself a favor and write a spreadsheet that spits
> out an ADIF file so that I don't have to create the ADIF with TQSL (which I
> despise).   I don't use any other logging software, either - just pen and
> legal pad (actually it's engineering paper this time).
>
> Before I embark on this journey of frustration, has anybody already created
> a satellite friendly excel (or better - libre office) file that converts
> multiple contacts into a single ADIF?   Otherwise I'll share mine when I'm
> eventually done (I have found a bunch that are non-satellite friendly).
>
> --Roy
> K3RLD
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From n1jez at burlingtontelecom.net  Mon Aug 24 14:24:07 2020
From: n1jez at burlingtontelecom.net (Mike Seguin)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 10:24:07 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Excel to ADIF
In-Reply-To: <CANq+eyX04Pn1EggwMhbmGfhAv7Le=d1JiRhFoLhzzuYEAaV_GA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADGPg2sd+Mk+RzDsbr-Em5s3KtKKwsNJ2VkyeH-AVvn5Mj6zoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyX04Pn1EggwMhbmGfhAv7Le=d1JiRhFoLhzzuYEAaV_GA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c73a8428-ce84-906a-8609-4643a8dee93b@burlingtontelecom.net>

Have you looked at ADIF Master?

https://www.dxshell.com/adif-master.html

Use manual entry mode...

Mike

On 8/24/2020 10:16 AM, David Swanson via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> I did some stuff like this a few years ago - It's not directly from xls to
> adif, but rather csv to adif, so should be able to work with excel or
> really any spreadsheet. Details are here:
> 
> http://www.kg5cci.com/2016/12/logging-everything-to-lotw.html
> 
> It's just a basic perl script, but pretty flexible and I built it around
> satellite contacts specifically.
> 
> -Dave, KG5CCI
> 
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 9:10 AM Roy Dean via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> So I have 4 pages of contacts I need to log, and I'm dreading it.    I
>> figured I may as well do myself a favor and write a spreadsheet that spits
>> out an ADIF file so that I don't have to create the ADIF with TQSL (which I
>> despise).   I don't use any other logging software, either - just pen and
>> legal pad (actually it's engineering paper this time).
>>
>> Before I embark on this journey of frustration, has anybody already created
>> a satellite friendly excel (or better - libre office) file that converts
>> multiple contacts into a single ADIF?   Otherwise I'll share mine when I'm
>> eventually done (I have found a bunch that are non-satellite friendly).
>>
>> --Roy
>> K3RLD
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 

-- 

73,
Mike, N1JEZ
"A closed mouth gathers no feet"

From gary_mayfield at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 24 14:42:35 2020
From: gary_mayfield at hotmail.com (Gary)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 14:42:35 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Excel to ADIF
In-Reply-To: <CADGPg2sd+Mk+RzDsbr-Em5s3KtKKwsNJ2VkyeH-AVvn5Mj6zoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADGPg2sd+Mk+RzDsbr-Em5s3KtKKwsNJ2VkyeH-AVvn5Mj6zoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CH2PR13MB3864EDDC8BD20C0F8DB7D3A48A560@CH2PR13MB3864.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

Roy,
	
	For me the fastest way from pencil and paper to ADIF is Fast Log Entry. You can see it here:
https://www.df3cb.com/fle/

If your heart is set on a spreadsheet step that is another story.

73,
Joe kk0sd

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Roy Dean via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2020 9:09 AM
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Excel to ADIF

So I have 4 pages of contacts I need to log, and I'm dreading it.    I
figured I may as well do myself a favor and write a spreadsheet that spits out an ADIF file so that I don't have to create the ADIF with TQSL (which I
despise).   I don't use any other logging software, either - just pen and
legal pad (actually it's engineering paper this time).

Before I embark on this journey of frustration, has anybody already created a satellite friendly excel (or better - libre office) file that converts
multiple contacts into a single ADIF?   Otherwise I'll share mine when I'm
eventually done (I have found a bunch that are non-satellite friendly).

--Roy
K3RLD
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From royldean at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 14:49:25 2020
From: royldean at gmail.com (Roy Dean)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 10:49:25 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Excel to ADIF
Message-ID: <CADGPg2vmqaC=7tN3gd2xx+HAoARUZmALaTXMUa=oBQ6Tx_RE0w@mail.gmail.com>

Forgot to mention, I'm running linux exclusively.   I could try Wine, but
in the past that's led to a bunch of despair (frequent corruption of other
stuff while wine tries to get the software to run).   I appreciate the
advice from everybody, however.   I am giving Dave's software a try, for
now.

--Roy
K3RLD


> Roy,
> 	
> 	For me the fastest way from pencil and paper to ADIF is Fast Log Entry. You can see it here:https://www.df3cb.com/fle/
>
> If your heart is set on a spreadsheet step that is another story.
>
> 73,
> Joe kk0sd
>
>

From aj9n at aol.com  Mon Aug 24 15:15:23 2020
From: aj9n at aol.com (aj9n at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 15:15:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-24 15:00
	UTC
References: <782535422.4941376.1598282123651.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <782535422.4941376.1598282123651@mail.yahoo.com>


Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-24 15:00 UTC

?

Quick list of scheduled contacts and events:

?

Information and Technologies Branch, Department of Education-Queensland Government, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, telebridge via AB1OC

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be NA1SS

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR 

Contact was successful: Mon 2020-08-24 09:32:57 UTC 34 deg (***)

?

Thanks to Bob VK4DA, the live audio should be available: Echolink *HAM* 69556 / IRLP 9556 / AllStar 48820 49903

?

########################################################################################################################################

?

A multi-point telebridge contact means that each student will be on the telebridge from their own home.

*************************************************

?

ARISS is very aware of the impact that COVID-19 is having on schools and the public in general.? As such, we may have last minute cancellations or postponements of school contacts.? As always, I will try to provide everyone with near-real-time updates.? 

?

The following schools have now been postponed or cancelled due to COVID-19:? 

?

Postponed:

No new schools

?

Cancelled:

No new schools

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

?

Watch for future COVID-19 related announcements here also.

?

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

?

Note, all times are approximate. ?It is recommended that you do your own 

orbital prediction?or start listening about 10 minutes before the listed 

time. 

All dates and times listed follow International Standard ISO 8601 date and 

time format YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS

?

The complete schedule page has been updated as of?2020-08-24 15:00 UTC. (***)

Here you will find a listing of all scheduled?school contacts, and 

questions, other ISS related websites, IRLP and Echolink websites, and 

instructions for any contact that may be streamed live.

?

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf 

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.txt 

?

?

The successful school list has been updated as of 2020-08-24 15:00 UTC. (***)

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/Successful_ARISS_schools.rtf 

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

?

Message to US Educators

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States) 

?

The Proposal Window of February 1, 2020 to March 31, 2020 has now closed.

?

For future proposal information and more details such as expectations, proposal guidelines and proposal form, and dates and times of Information Webinars, go to www.ariss.org.

?

Please direct any questions to?ariss.us.education at gmail.com.

?

About ARISS:

?

Amateur Radio on the International Space Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radio societies and the space agencies that support the International Space Station (ISS).? In the United States, sponsors are the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio Relay League (ARRL), the ISS National Lab and National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEAM) topics by organizing scheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS and students in classrooms or public forms. Before and during these radio contacts, students, educators, parents, and communities learn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. For more information, see www.ariss.org.

?

********************************************************************************

ARISS Contact Applications (Europe, Africa and the Middle East)

?

Schools and Youth organizations in Europe, Africa and the Middle East interested in setting up an ARISS radio contact with an astronaut on board the International Space Station are invited to submit an application from September to October and from February to April.

Please refer to details and the application form at www.ariss-eu.org/school-contacts.? Applications should be addressed by email to:? school.selection.manager at ariss-eu.org

?

ARISS Contact Applications (Canada, Central and South America, Asia and Australia and Russia)

?

Organizations outside the United States can apply for an ARISS contact by filling out an application.? Please direct questions to the appropriate regional representative listed below. If your country is not specifically listed, send your questions to the nearest ARISS Region listed. If you are unsure which address to use, please send your question to the ARISS-Canada representative; they will forward your question to the appropriate coordinator.

?

For the application, go to:? https://www.ariss.org/ariss-application.html.

ARISS-Canada and the Americas, except USA: Steve McFarlane, VE3TBD email to: ve3tbd at gmail.com

ARISS-Japan, Asia, Pacific and Australia: Satoshi Yasuda, 7M3TJZ email to: ariss at iaru-r3.org, Japan Amateur Radio League (JARL) https://www.jarl.org/

ARISS-Russia: Soyuz Radioljubitelei Rossii (SRR) https://srr.ru/

?

?

******************************************************************************

ARISS is always glad to receive listener reports for the above contacts.? ARISS thanks everyone in advance for their assistance.? Feel free to send your reports to aj9n at amsat.org or aj9n at aol.com.

?

Listen for the ISS on the downlink of 145.8? MHz.

?

*******************************************************************************

?

All ARISS contacts are made via the Kenwood radio unless otherwise noted.

?

*******************************************************************************


Several of you have sent me emails asking about the RAC ARISS website and 
not being able to get in. ?That has now been changed to https://www.ariss.org/

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

****************************************************************************

Looking for something new to do?? How about receiving DATV from the ISS?? Please note that the HamTV system has been brought back to earth for troubleshooting.? Please monitor ARISS-EU or ARISS-ON for the very latest news on the troubleshooting efforts.? 

?

If interested, then please go to the ARISS-EU website for complete details.? Look for the buttons indicating Ham Video.???????????? 

?

http://www.ariss-eu.org/

?

If you need some assistance, ARISS mentor Kerry N6IZW, might be able to provide some insight.? Contact Kerry at kbanke at sbcglobal.net

?

?

The HamTV webpage:? https://www.amsat-on.be/hamtv-summary/

?

?

****************************************************************************
ARISS congratulations the following mentors who have now mentored over 100 schools: 

?

Francesco IK?WGF with 140

Satoshi 7M3TJZ with 138 

Sergey RV3DR with 135 

Gaston ON4WF with 123

?

****************************************************************************

The webpages listed below were all reviewed for accuracy. Out of date 

webpages were removed, and new ones have been added.? If there are additional 

ARISS websites I need to know about, please let me know.

?

?

?

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school events is 1396. (***)

Each school counts as 1 event.?????????????????????????????????? 

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school contacts is 1329. (***)

Each contact may have multiple schools sharing the same time slot.

Total number of ARISS supported terrestrial contacts is 48. 

?

A complete year by year breakdown of the contacts may be found in the 

file.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf

?

Please feel free to contact me if more detailed statistics are needed.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



The following US states and entities have never had an ARISS contact:
South Dakota, Wyoming, American?Samoa, Guam, Northern Marianas Islands, and the Virgin Islands.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

?

QSL information may be found at:

https://www.ariss.org/qsl-cards.html

?

ISS callsigns: DP?ISS, IR?ISS, NA1SS, OR4ISS, RS?ISS

?

****************************************************************************



Frequency chart for packet, voice, and crossband repeater modes showing 

Doppler correction as of 2005-07-29 04:00 UTC

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/ISS_frequencies_and_Doppler_correction.rtf



Check out the Zoho reports of the ARISS contacts

?

https://reports.zoho.com/ZDBDataSheetView.cc?DBID=412218000000020415

****************************************************************************

?

Exp. 62 now on orbit 

Chris Cassidy KF5KDR

Anatoli Ivanishin

Ivan Vagner

****************************************************************************

73,

Charlie?Sufana AJ9N
One of the ARISS operation team mentors

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?



From zmetzing at pobox.com  Mon Aug 24 15:32:49 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 10:32:49 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Excel to ADIF
In-Reply-To: <CADGPg2vmqaC=7tN3gd2xx+HAoARUZmALaTXMUa=oBQ6Tx_RE0w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADGPg2vmqaC=7tN3gd2xx+HAoARUZmALaTXMUa=oBQ6Tx_RE0w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8f3bf10c-3acc-255e-6b39-b17b5f10c0f5@pobox.com>

On 08/24/20 09:49, Roy Dean via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Forgot to mention, I'm running linux exclusively.   I could try Wine, but
> in the past that's led to a bunch of despair (frequent corruption of other
> stuff while wine tries to get the software to run).   I appreciate the
> advice from everybody, however.   I am giving Dave's software a try, for
> now.

Roy,

I run FreeBSD for nearly everything, but I do have to access Windows 
apps occasionally. I use VirtualBox to turn Windows into an 
"application", and keep it closed when I don't need it.

If you don't have a Windows license, you might try running ReactOS 
inside of VirtualBox. I've heard good things about it.

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From kb2ysi at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 16:27:13 2020
From: kb2ysi at gmail.com (Don KB2YSI)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 12:27:13 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] FOX-1D (AO-92) in safe mode
In-Reply-To: <00d801d67a1a$f5c6c070$e1544150$@mindspring.com>
References: <B4F1DC07-8463-4E95-A472-8C047F33C53E@gmail.com>
	<CAAJiE8NRejveA729ToQo2r9JR8ccamg=gycXbKy-OvVxG7Ju0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<00d801d67a1a$f5c6c070$e1544150$@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <CAAJiE8MYTJ0eDHcmAN6XtDCKGpCo7c5bUk=-Q=maTTNz+GPkeg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Drew!

On Mon, Aug 24, 2020, 09:32 Andrew Glasbrenner <glasbrenner at mindspring.com>
wrote:

> Hi Don,
>
> All correct, except auto safe mode ends as soon as eclipse does, when the
> bus voltage goes over 3.6. The batteries will charge then for the next 60
> minutes or so until the next eclipse.
>
> As we move to winter in the northern hemisphere, the end of the eclipse
> should shift over the pole and to the beginning of the descending part of
> the orbit, and this issue should change for at least the northern
> hemisphere ops.
>
> 73, Drew KO4MA
> AMSAT VP Operations
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Don KB2YSI via
> AMSAT-BB
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2020 8:36 AM
> To: John E. Amdor IV <jamdoriv at gmail.com>
> Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FOX-1D (AO-92) in safe mode
>
> From my very limited knowledge, the batteries are dropping to a voltage
> during eclipse that safe mode is triggered to prevent the batteries from
> discharging too far and thus preventing damage.  Once the satellite is back
> into illumination it should return to normal operations once the batteries
> have charged.
>
> AGAIN, this is MY understanding of the situation, and in no way reflects
> an officatial AMSAT response nor might be accurate.
>
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 2:35 AM John E. Amdor IV via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > Today (8/24) at ~4:16 UTC I was attempting to uplink to AO-92 when
> > Veronica announced ?FOX-1 Delta, Safe Mode?. Does anyone know what put
> > AO-92 in safe mode, and will this happen every night?
> >
> > KE0NEV
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect
> > the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
>
>
> --
> 73,
> Don KB2YSI
> https://www.hamqth.com/kb2ysi
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to
> all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>

From propgrinder at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 16:39:03 2020
From: propgrinder at gmail.com (Bob Hammond)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 09:39:03 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Satellite log book?
Message-ID: <CAKoB7Ooh44h5LDw8ni_VL+3z_HQCw7pa8N4PeM9jAQEMM31PsQ@mail.gmail.com>

Any suggestions for a small spiral-bound log book for satellite contacts?

Bob W7OTJ

From jamesduffey at comcast.net  Mon Aug 24 17:01:49 2020
From: jamesduffey at comcast.net (JamesDuffey)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 11:01:49 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] Satellite log book?
In-Reply-To: <CAKoB7Ooh44h5LDw8ni_VL+3z_HQCw7pa8N4PeM9jAQEMM31PsQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7Ooh44h5LDw8ni_VL+3z_HQCw7pa8N4PeM9jAQEMM31PsQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F323C49-4B39-48E5-9DEC-27743F4ECDB3@comcast.net>

< http://www.arrl.org/shop/MINILOG/ >

James Duffey KK6MC
Cedar Crest NM

> On Aug 24, 2020, at 10:40, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?Any suggestions for a small spiral-bound log book for satellite contacts?
> 

From propgrinder at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 18:19:41 2020
From: propgrinder at gmail.com (Bob Hammond)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 11:19:41 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Satellite log book?
In-Reply-To: <4F323C49-4B39-48E5-9DEC-27743F4ECDB3@comcast.net>
References: <CAKoB7Ooh44h5LDw8ni_VL+3z_HQCw7pa8N4PeM9jAQEMM31PsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F323C49-4B39-48E5-9DEC-27743F4ECDB3@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAKoB7Or610B+Kxyz_LbRKWEYH4O-fQ21k5RiAq0B_epY=D71bA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Perfect.

On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 10:02 AM JamesDuffey <jamesduffey at comcast.net>
wrote:

> < http://www.arrl.org/shop/MINILOG/ >
>
> James Duffey KK6MC
> Cedar Crest NM
>
> On Aug 24, 2020, at 10:40, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
> ?Any suggestions for a small spiral-bound log book for satellite contacts?
>
>

From aj9n at aol.com  Mon Aug 24 18:20:44 2020
From: aj9n at aol.com (aj9n at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 18:20:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-24 18:30
	UTC
References: <2011752366.5040270.1598293244650.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2011752366.5040270.1598293244650@mail.yahoo.com>


Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-24 18:30 UTC

?

Quick list of scheduled contacts and events:

?

The KMO Kolska Wyspa, Ko?o, Poland, telebridge via VK6MJ (***)

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be NA1SS (***) 

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR 

Contact is go for: Wed 2020-09-02 12:58:11 UTC 75 deg (***)

?

?

?

Information and Technologies Branch, Department of Education-Queensland Government, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, telebridge via AB1OC

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be NA1SS

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR 

Contact was successful: Mon 2020-08-24 09:32:57 UTC 34 deg 

?

Thanks to Bob VK4DA, the live audio should be available: Echolink *HAM* 69556 / IRLP 9556 / AllStar 48820 49903

?

?

?

########################################################################################################################################

?

A multi-point telebridge contact means that each student will be on the telebridge from their own home.

*************************************************

?

ARISS is very aware of the impact that COVID-19 is having on schools and the public in general.? As such, we may have last minute cancellations or postponements of school contacts.? As always, I will try to provide everyone with near-real-time updates.? 

?

The following schools have now been postponed or cancelled due to COVID-19:? 

?

Postponed:

No new schools

?

Cancelled:

No new schools

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

?

Watch for future COVID-19 related announcements here also.

?

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

?

Note, all times are approximate. ?It is recommended that you do your own 

orbital prediction?or start listening about 10 minutes before the listed 

time. 

All dates and times listed follow International Standard ISO 8601 date and 

time format YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS

?

The complete schedule page has been updated as of?2020-08-24 18:30 UTC. (***)

Here you will find a listing of all scheduled?school contacts, and 

questions, other ISS related websites, IRLP and Echolink websites, and 

instructions for any contact that may be streamed live.

?

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf 

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.txt 

?

?

The successful school list has been updated as of 2020-08-24 15:00 UTC. (***)

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/Successful_ARISS_schools.rtf 

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

?

Message to US Educators

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States) 

?

The Proposal Window of February 1, 2020 to March 31, 2020 has now closed.

?

For future proposal information and more details such as expectations, proposal guidelines and proposal form, and dates and times of Information Webinars, go to www.ariss.org.

?

Please direct any questions to?ariss.us.education at gmail.com.

?

About ARISS:

?

Amateur Radio on the International Space Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radio societies and the space agencies that support the International Space Station (ISS).? In the United States, sponsors are the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio Relay League (ARRL), the ISS National Lab and National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEAM) topics by organizing scheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS and students in classrooms or public forms. Before and during these radio contacts, students, educators, parents, and communities learn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. For more information, see www.ariss.org.

?

********************************************************************************

ARISS Contact Applications (Europe, Africa and the Middle East)

?

Schools and Youth organizations in Europe, Africa and the Middle East interested in setting up an ARISS radio contact with an astronaut on board the International Space Station are invited to submit an application from September to October and from February to April.

Please refer to details and the application form at www.ariss-eu.org/school-contacts.? Applications should be addressed by email to:? school.selection.manager at ariss-eu.org

?

ARISS Contact Applications (Canada, Central and South America, Asia and Australia and Russia)

?

Organizations outside the United States can apply for an ARISS contact by filling out an application.? Please direct questions to the appropriate regional representative listed below. If your country is not specifically listed, send your questions to the nearest ARISS Region listed. If you are unsure which address to use, please send your question to the ARISS-Canada representative; they will forward your question to the appropriate coordinator.

?

For the application, go to:? https://www.ariss.org/ariss-application.html.

ARISS-Canada and the Americas, except USA: Steve McFarlane, VE3TBD email to: ve3tbd at gmail.com

ARISS-Japan, Asia, Pacific and Australia: Satoshi Yasuda, 7M3TJZ email to: ariss at iaru-r3.org, Japan Amateur Radio League (JARL) https://www.jarl.org/

ARISS-Russia: Soyuz Radioljubitelei Rossii (SRR) https://srr.ru/

?

?

******************************************************************************

ARISS is always glad to receive listener reports for the above contacts.? ARISS thanks everyone in advance for their assistance.? Feel free to send your reports to aj9n at amsat.org or aj9n at aol.com.

?

Listen for the ISS on the downlink of 145.8? MHz.

?

*******************************************************************************

?

All ARISS contacts are made via the Kenwood radio unless otherwise noted.

?

*******************************************************************************


Several of you have sent me emails asking about the RAC ARISS website and 
not being able to get in. ?That has now been changed to https://www.ariss.org/

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

****************************************************************************

Looking for something new to do?? How about receiving DATV from the ISS?? Please note that the HamTV system has been brought back to earth for troubleshooting.? Please monitor ARISS-EU or ARISS-ON for the very latest news on the troubleshooting efforts.? 

?

If interested, then please go to the ARISS-EU website for complete details.? Look for the buttons indicating Ham Video.???????????? 

?

http://www.ariss-eu.org/

?

If you need some assistance, ARISS mentor Kerry N6IZW, might be able to provide some insight.? Contact Kerry at kbanke at sbcglobal.net

?

?

The HamTV webpage:? https://www.amsat-on.be/hamtv-summary/

?

?

****************************************************************************
ARISS congratulations the following mentors who have now mentored over 100 schools: 

?

Francesco IK?WGF with 140

Satoshi 7M3TJZ with 138 

Sergey RV3DR with 135 

Gaston ON4WF with 123

?

****************************************************************************

The webpages listed below were all reviewed for accuracy. Out of date 

webpages were removed, and new ones have been added.? If there are additional 

ARISS websites I need to know about, please let me know.

?

?

?

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school events is 1396. (***)

Each school counts as 1 event.?????????????????????????????????? 

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school contacts is 1329. (***)

Each contact may have multiple schools sharing the same time slot.

Total number of ARISS supported terrestrial contacts is 48. 

?

A complete year by year breakdown of the contacts may be found in the 

file.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf

?

Please feel free to contact me if more detailed statistics are needed.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



The following US states and entities have never had an ARISS contact:
South Dakota, Wyoming, American?Samoa, Guam, Northern Marianas Islands, and the Virgin Islands.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

?

QSL information may be found at:

https://www.ariss.org/qsl-cards.html

?

ISS callsigns: DP?ISS, IR?ISS, NA1SS, OR4ISS, RS?ISS

?

****************************************************************************



Frequency chart for packet, voice, and crossband repeater modes showing 

Doppler correction as of 2005-07-29 04:00 UTC

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/ISS_frequencies_and_Doppler_correction.rtf



Check out the Zoho reports of the ARISS contacts

?

https://reports.zoho.com/ZDBDataSheetView.cc?DBID=412218000000020415

****************************************************************************

?

Exp. 62 now on orbit 

Chris Cassidy KF5KDR

Anatoli Ivanishin

Ivan Vagner

****************************************************************************

73,

Charlie?Sufana AJ9N
One of the ARISS operation team mentors

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?



From k0jm.mark at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 20:06:19 2020
From: k0jm.mark at gmail.com (Mark Johns, K0JM)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 15:06:19 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] ANS editors wanted
Message-ID: <CADDbS5Cs2mH0PwVbJgwZ0NeoMYDFKgj1NKeUss5ED=BbOyaoFw@mail.gmail.com>

Are you the sort of ham who may not have the skills to put together a
satellite, but who does a pretty good job of putting *WORDS* together?

The AMSAT News Service (ANS) prepares and distributes weekly news bulletins
about the world of amateur satellites, and ANS is in need of additional
rotating editors. Editors take turns putting together the weekly bulletins,
one week each month, more or less. They also help one another out by
seeking news items to pass along to the editor of the week, and
proofreading.

Online training and mentoring is provided. Time commitment is usually 4-6
hours per month, once trained and up to speed.

This is a great way for wordsmiths to contribute to AMSAT and to serve your
fellow amateurs. Contact k0jm [at] amsat.org with questions or to volunteer.
--
Mark D. Johns, K?JM
AMSAT Ambassador & News Service Editor
Brooklyn Park, MN USA   EN35hd
-----------------------------------------------
"Heaven goes by favor; if it went by merit,
   you would stay out and your dog would go in."
    ---Mark Twain

From ns3l at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 24 21:36:48 2020
From: ns3l at yahoo.com (Steve Nordahl)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 21:36:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] DMR TG 98006 & Fusion US-AMSAT links being disrupted
 by what appears to be two hotspots on the same freq.
In-Reply-To: <40252960.6632668.1598277760991@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <40252960.6632668.1598277760991.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<40252960.6632668.1598277760991@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2084177722.6944029.1598305008383@mail.yahoo.com>

 Update: As of 2130Z. It appears whatever the previous problem with both TG 98006 and Fusion US-AMSAT links being interrupted has been cleared up. Hopefully the issue is fully resolved..

Steve @NS3L 
     On Monday, August 24, 2020, 10:02:40 AM EDT, Steve Nordahl <ns3l at yahoo.com> wrote:  
 
 I'm sure some of you who use either DMR Talk group 98006 or the Fusion US-AMSAT links have noticed over the last couple days, both the DMR TG98006 & Fusion US-AMSAT links are currently unusable & being disrupted by what appears to be a couple hotspots that have been activated by someone on the same frequency at one location. Basically repeating what ever they hear non-stop until the link times out.

Steve NS3L
  

From gp_ab5r at outlook.com  Tue Aug 25 22:09:47 2020
From: gp_ab5r at outlook.com (Gerald Payton)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2020 22:09:47 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Help with programming TS-2000 for satellites.
Message-ID: <SN6PR11MB27526A0082293159E1B3FAAAD0570@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

I need help programming my Kenwood TS-2000 for satellites.  I bought the R T System's software hoping that would do the trick, but NOPE.

I've been told that Ham Radio Deluxe allows programming the satellite frequencies, but I cannot find anything regarding that.

If I may please, I'd like to solicit help or advise please reply directly rather than tie up the BB

73.
Jerry AB5R

From k7trkradio at charter.net  Tue Aug 25 23:55:36 2020
From: k7trkradio at charter.net (Ted Krempa)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2020 16:55:36 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Help with programming TS-2000 for satellites.
In-Reply-To: <SN6PR11MB27526A0082293159E1B3FAAAD0570@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN6PR11MB27526A0082293159E1B3FAAAD0570@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <008c01d67b3b$3b358b20$b1a0a160$@charter.net>

Jerry, HRD will do all that, or amsat recommends SatPC32 (see AMSAT.org to
purchase)

73 and GL
Ted, K7TRK

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org] On Behalf Of Gerald
Payton via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2020 3:10 PM
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Help with programming TS-2000 for satellites.

I need help programming my Kenwood TS-2000 for satellites.  I bought the R T
System's software hoping that would do the trick, but NOPE.

I've been told that Ham Radio Deluxe allows programming the satellite
frequencies, but I cannot find anything regarding that.

If I may please, I'd like to solicit help or advise please reply directly
rather than tie up the BB

73.
Jerry AB5R
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From yono_adisoemarta at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 26 01:37:15 2020
From: yono_adisoemarta at yahoo.com (Yono Adisoemarta)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 08:37:15 +0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Help with programming TS-2000 for satellites.
In-Reply-To: <SN6PR11MB27526A0082293159E1B3FAAAD0570@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN6PR11MB27526A0082293159E1B3FAAAD0570@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <AC7A81E3-F79F-4F1D-A0FC-9916F5159BD2@yahoo.com>

On my TS-2000 I use Orbitron to control (not program, the radio memory is still empty) freq settings during my QSO via satellite.

Very easy to set,

73 de Yono - YD0NXX 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 26, 2020, at 5:12 AM, Gerald Payton via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?I need help programming my Kenwood TS-2000 for satellites.  I bought the R T System's software hoping that would do the trick, but NOPE.
> 
> I've been told that Ham Radio Deluxe allows programming the satellite frequencies, but I cannot find anything regarding that.
> 
> If I may please, I'd like to solicit help or advise please reply directly rather than tie up the BB
> 
> 73.
> Jerry AB5R
> _______________________________________________
> 


From wandtosborne at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 02:00:08 2020
From: wandtosborne at gmail.com (Wendy and Terry Osborne)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 14:00:08 +1200
Subject: [amsat-bb] Rocket Lab Launch postponed until Saturday UTC
Message-ID: <4a74578b-6d6f-efb2-01c1-df8c03fe1059@gmail.com>

Weather forecast for the next couple of days is not so good so launch is 
postponed until Saturday 29th UTC.
See: https://twitter.com/RocketLab/status/1298342523203592192

Terry Osborne ZL2BAC

From wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc  Wed Aug 26 13:22:09 2020
From: wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc (Burns Fisher)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 09:22:09 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Help with programming TS-2000 for satellites.
In-Reply-To: <AC7A81E3-F79F-4F1D-A0FC-9916F5159BD2@yahoo.com>
References: <SN6PR11MB27526A0082293159E1B3FAAAD0570@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
	<AC7A81E3-F79F-4F1D-A0FC-9916F5159BD2@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CABX7KxXufo7mt3vhdnFmsiVk99XiuD_KprEPdLf57Hi==HppVw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Gerald,

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "programmed for satellites".  Do you
mean setting the memories (which AFAIK, is what you would use RT-Systems'
software for) or do you mean computer aided tuning to set a sat frequency
and correct for doppler as it goes over?

I have a TS-2000 (although it is not in current use)  and have done both.
I used Chirp, an open source program that handles the memories of many
radios (and I'm embarrassed to admit how many I have) including the TS2K.
I've used both SatPC32 (on Windows) and MacDoppler (from a Mac) to do
computer-aided tuning.  They all worked fine.

Given that you have tried two different programs, I can't help but wonder
if the problem is the serial port setup.  There are usually two issues with
serial ports:  Getting the baud rate right, and getting the RxTx reversal
right.  (The latter means that the pin that is receiving on the radio has
to be connected to the pin that is transmitting on the computer and vice
versa).  Do you have your TS-2000 manual (it is downloadable if not).
Check how to set up the baud rate and make sure that it is the same as what
your computer program is setting that serial port to.  You may have to do
some work to figure out if the Rx and Tx pins are connected right, although
*often* (but not always) if the connector genders match it will be ok.  Be
really sure about the baud rate before you start pulling your hair out
about the connections.

I hope this gives you some ideas at least.

73,

Burns WB1FJ

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 9:39 PM Yono Adisoemarta via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> On my TS-2000 I use Orbitron to control (not program, the radio memory is
> still empty) freq settings during my QSO via satellite.
>
> Very easy to set,
>
> 73 de Yono - YD0NXX
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 26, 2020, at 5:12 AM, Gerald Payton via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > ?I need help programming my Kenwood TS-2000 for satellites.  I bought
> the R T System's software hoping that would do the trick, but NOPE.
> >
> > I've been told that Ham Radio Deluxe allows programming the satellite
> frequencies, but I cannot find anything regarding that.
> >
> > If I may please, I'd like to solicit help or advise please reply
> directly rather than tie up the BB
> >
> > 73.
> > Jerry AB5R
> > _______________________________________________
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From ke4al at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 26 19:01:14 2020
From: ke4al at yahoo.com (Robert Bankston)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 19:01:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] APRS Messaging QSOs
References: <985557086.8057019.1598468474766.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <985557086.8057019.1598468474766@mail.yahoo.com>

It's a shame that their are not more APRS messaging satellite QSOs being done via ARISS and other satellites.? Is this because...?
? * Lack of equipment?? * Erratic operational schedules?? * Proliferation of non-attended stations (beacons)?? * Too much button pushing?
Most ops you an HT and very few of those have APRS messaging capability.? Those HT's that do (including mobiles) are a bit clunky and require fast thumbs to complete all of the necessary steps to complete a QSO.? Of course the more you do it, the more second nature it becomes, but that circles back to the erratic scheduling.
One solution could be to develop an app or software with prescribed message formatting and QSO automation, similar to similar FT8.
? (click on target call in station list)? * [Target Call] [My Call] [My Grid]? * [My Call] [Target Call] (Target Grid]? * R [Target Grid]? * RR [My Grid]? (click on log QSO)
Single board computers could easily handle the task (even the Pi Zero), for those worried about keeping their station small. Only thing left would be a microarduino TNC or soundcard and a couple cables to the HT mic and earphone jacks.
Just a thought.
73, Robert KE4AL

From robert.machale at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 26 19:15:03 2020
From: robert.machale at yahoo.com (Robert MacHale)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 19:15:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] APRS Messaging QSOs
In-Reply-To: <985557086.8057019.1598468474766@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <985557086.8057019.1598468474766.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<985557086.8057019.1598468474766@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <475846391.8091565.1598469303490@mail.yahoo.com>

I love the APRSAT space.

One of the factors in the past has been iGate (satGate) availability. The ability to verify contact after a pass is reaffirming and rewarding. My favorite is the TNC from Mobilinkd - http://www.mobilinkd.com/

I've been able to connect that to an Arduino for sending packets and sharing them on the Internet as an iGate (satGate).

Fun Stuff!

Robert MacHale
. KE6BLR FCC Licensed Radio Operator?
.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- THOMAS PAINE

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self. -- ERNEST HEMINGWAY






On Wednesday, August 26, 2020, 12:04:07 PM PDT, Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 





It's a shame that their are not more APRS messaging satellite QSOs being done via ARISS and other satellites.? Is this because...?
? * Lack of equipment?? * Erratic operational schedules?? * Proliferation of non-attended stations (beacons)?? * Too much button pushing?
Most ops you an HT and very few of those have APRS messaging capability.? Those HT's that do (including mobiles) are a bit clunky and require fast thumbs to complete all of the necessary steps to complete a QSO.? Of course the more you do it, the more second nature it becomes, but that circles back to the erratic scheduling.
One solution could be to develop an app or software with prescribed message formatting and QSO automation, similar to similar FT8.
? (click on target call in station list)? * [Target Call] [My Call] [My Grid]? * [My Call] [Target Call] (Target Grid]? * R [Target Grid]? * RR [My Grid]? (click on log QSO)
Single board computers could easily handle the task (even the Pi Zero), for those worried about keeping their station small. Only thing left would be a microarduino TNC or soundcard and a couple cables to the HT mic and earphone jacks.
Just a thought.
73, Robert KE4AL
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From skristof at etczone.com  Wed Aug 26 19:30:00 2020
From: skristof at etczone.com (Steve Kristoff)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 15:30:00 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] APRS Messaging QSOs
In-Reply-To: <985557086.8057019.1598468474766@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <985557086.8057019.1598468474766.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<985557086.8057019.1598468474766@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3d0b7c607ab273aca9688ede2ef8f38e@etczone.com>


UISS will do a lot of that.

?http://users.belgacom.net/hamradio/uiss.htm

You need to use something like Soundmodem or Direwolf with it but it works pretty well. I've done "QSOs" with it.


Steve AI9IN

?
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
Date: 08/26/20 15:03
To: AMSAT BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
Subject: [amsat-bb] APRS Messaging QSOs

It's a shame that their are not more APRS messaging satellite QSOs being done via ARISS and other satellites. ?Is this because... 
* Lack of equipment? ?* Erratic operational schedules? ?* Proliferation of non-attended stations (beacons)? ?* Too much button pushing?
Most ops you an HT and very few of those have APRS messaging capability. ?Those HT's that do (including mobiles) are a bit clunky and require fast thumbs to complete all of the necessary steps to complete a QSO. ?Of course the more you do it, the more second nature it becomes, but that circles back to the erratic scheduling.
One solution could be to develop an app or software with prescribed message formatting and QSO automation, similar to similar FT8.
(click on target call in station list) ?* [Target Call] [My Call] [My Grid] ?* [My Call] [Target Call] (Target Grid] ?* R [Target Grid] ?* RR [My Grid] ?(click on log QSO)
Single board computers could easily handle the task (even the Pi Zero), for those worried about keeping their station small. Only thing left would be a microarduino TNC or soundcard and a couple cables to the HT mic and earphone jacks.
Just a thought.
73, Robert KE4AL
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From sjdevience at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 19:48:06 2020
From: sjdevience at gmail.com (Stephen DeVience)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 15:48:06 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] APRS Messaging QSOs
Message-ID: <CAMPfQQAQO6Y+dVvLVocqNQdEADNjGuJQN3QasD4T19YQAQGRsw@mail.gmail.com>

I regularly try making APRS QSOs with my TH-D72 and a yagi, and I'm
occasionally successful.
I find the ARISS digipeater is difficult to get into with that setup. I'm
not sure if it's an equipment issue or if the station blocks the antenna
somehow. Hopefully they get the upgraded system going soon.
The automatic beacon stations also don't help, since they just cause
collisions. I put "live" in my beacon message so ops know they can try to
QSO with me.
PSAT is easier, but the APRS is barely ever on.
Falconsat seems more reliable, but with fewer operators on it.
Finally, I've found even terrestrial APRS to require more power than FM
voice in order to work reliably.

-Stephen, N8URE

From amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net  Wed Aug 26 20:05:22 2020
From: amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net (Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK))
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 20:05:22 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] APRS Messaging QSOs
In-Reply-To: <985557086.8057019.1598468474766@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <985557086.8057019.1598468474766.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<985557086.8057019.1598468474766@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAN6TEUfWhJDHutUc9dyvNXPb_z51efvSHakYFKwSf5_n2uv79Q@mail.gmail.com>

Robert,

There are a few issues at play currently...

1. Availability of orbiting digipeaters. The current ISS packet system
appears to be hard of hearing. It can hear strong signals, and those
with lower-power stations - like the APRS-ready HTs - are only able to
get through on the higher passes. If the new ISS radio and power supply
are installed and set to operate an APRS digipeater, this issue with
the ISS digipeater may go away.

Besides the ISS, NO-84's digipeater is rarely on. FalconSat-3 is
available, but that requires more sophisticated radio gear due to its
use of 9600bps packet and operating cross-band. FalconSat can be worked
with just a Kenwood TH-D72 or TM-D710G, as those radios support cross-
band packet at 9600bps, and (try to) do that full-duplex.

2. Unattended stations. This has been an issue for a long time on
145.825 MHz. It is not legal for US stations to operate in the
145.800-146.000 MHz and 435-438 MHz subbands unattended, yet it
happens. I referenced this in articles I wrote for the AMSAT Journal
and QST in the past couple of years, and those are available from the
"Articles" folder in my Dropbox space at http://dropbox.wd9ewk.net/

3. Button-pushing. It can take many presses to generate a very short
message using a DTMF keypad on APRS-ready radios. Some of the radios,
the Kenwood HTs and mobile radios in particular, provide a way to store
prepared messages (they are called "phrases" in the Kenwood manuals)
that can be called up with fewer button presses. Others use programs
like UISS on a Windows system to handle APRS, including messaging.
UISS can work with software like AGWPE or SoundModem, avoiding the need
for a TNC.

The APRS messaging protocol takes care of showing the sender and
recipient. This can leave the message text to convey information like a
grid locator(s) and state, or a "TNX/73" at the end of a QSO. The AMSAT
Journal article I co-wrote about packet on the TH-D72 and TH-D74, which
is available from:

https://www.amsat.org/station-and-operating-hints/

described my message setup. I store 3 prepared messages in my radios,
and normally use two of the 3 in making QSOs, following the process
outlined in AMSAT Field Day rules for a complete QSO.

A small computer could be useful here, allowing more radios to be used
with the orbiting packet digipeaters. A TNC probably isn't needed, if
the audio hardware on the computer is connected to the radio's speaker
and mic jacks. If the small computer could compile a list of stations
heard, and the user could select one of those stations for a message,
that could reduce the button pressing needed to send messages.

Hoping for the new ISS radio and power supply to be installed and
activated soon...






Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK






On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 7:02 PM Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> It's a shame that their are not more APRS messaging satellite QSOs being
> done via ARISS and other satellites.  Is this because...
>   * Lack of equipment?  * Erratic operational schedules?  * Proliferation
> of non-attended stations (beacons)?  * Too much button pushing?
> Most ops you an HT and very few of those have APRS messaging capability.
> Those HT's that do (including mobiles) are a bit clunky and require fast
> thumbs to complete all of the necessary steps to complete a QSO.  Of course
> the more you do it, the more second nature it becomes, but that circles
> back to the erratic scheduling.
> One solution could be to develop an app or software with prescribed
> message formatting and QSO automation, similar to similar FT8.
>   (click on target call in station list)  * [Target Call] [My Call] [My
> Grid]  * [My Call] [Target Call] (Target Grid]  * R [Target Grid]  * RR [My
> Grid]  (click on log QSO)
> Single board computers could easily handle the task (even the Pi Zero),
> for those worried about keeping their station small. Only thing left would
> be a microarduino TNC or soundcard and a couple cables to the HT mic and
> earphone jacks.
> Just a thought.
> 73, Robert KE4AL
>
>

From ke4al at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 26 20:43:35 2020
From: ke4al at yahoo.com (Robert Bankston)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 20:43:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] APRS Messaging QSOs
In-Reply-To: <475846391.8091565.1598469303490@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <985557086.8057019.1598468474766.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<985557086.8057019.1598468474766@mail.yahoo.com>
	<475846391.8091565.1598469303490@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1017482055.8134172.1598474615449@mail.yahoo.com>

I was not aware of the TNC from Mobilinkd, so thanks for the tip.
??
Interesting that their newest version includes BT connectivity to a smartphone app - something that almost every op has handy when making "portable" sat QSOs.? It's compatible with APRSdroid and they are working on adding iOS.
??
A prescribed format APRS message app, running on a smartphone, would be an interesting alternative to the raspberry pi route.? The TNC's small form factor would make it more usable.
??
$120 is a reasonable solution for those who do not want to build one.? For the more adventurous types, building one looks like only $20-$30 worth of parts.
??
NOTE: I own APRS capable HTs and Mobiles and have made APRS QSOs; however, I am exploring ways to make APRS messaging more accessible and more enjoyable for everyone.? I think automating/symplifying the QSO process, with a low-cost add on to existing equipment, could do that.
??
Robert KE4AL

From framirezferrer at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 20:59:05 2020
From: framirezferrer at gmail.com (Fernando Ramirez)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 13:59:05 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] APRS Messaging QSOs
In-Reply-To: <1017482055.8134172.1598474615449@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <985557086.8057019.1598468474766.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<985557086.8057019.1598468474766@mail.yahoo.com>
	<475846391.8091565.1598469303490@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1017482055.8134172.1598474615449@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAGHXx8g8q1GLcB7jk+HhZRBMXuZ4kSGQwXAHwzf7sah_qWRmDQ@mail.gmail.com>

I use a combination of an HT or mobile rig connected to a Mobilinkd for
APRS messages.

If connected to an Android phone you can use APRSdroid plus a keyboard with
macros like CanalRun to quickly exchange preconfigured messages.

The TNC can also be paired via Bluetooth to a PC or Raspberry Pi.

73
Fernando KF7R

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 1:45 PM Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I was not aware of the TNC from Mobilinkd, so thanks for the tip.
>
> Interesting that their newest version includes BT connectivity to a
> smartphone app - something that almost every op has handy when making
> "portable" sat QSOs.  It's compatible with APRSdroid and they are working
> on adding iOS.
>
> A prescribed format APRS message app, running on a smartphone, would be an
> interesting alternative to the raspberry pi route.  The TNC's small form
> factor would make it more usable.
>
> $120 is a reasonable solution for those who do not want to build one.  For
> the more adventurous types, building one looks like only $20-$30 worth of
> parts.
>
> NOTE: I own APRS capable HTs and Mobiles and have made APRS QSOs; however,
> I am exploring ways to make APRS messaging more accessible and more
> enjoyable for everyone.  I think automating/symplifying the QSO process,
> with a low-cost add on to existing equipment, could do that.
>
> Robert KE4AL
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From jeff30339 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 21:04:01 2020
From: jeff30339 at gmail.com (Jeff Johns)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 16:04:01 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] APRS Messaging QSOs
In-Reply-To: <985557086.8057019.1598468474766@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <985557086.8057019.1598468474766.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<985557086.8057019.1598468474766@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CA+QOuE6POH_V8yST0yksYXUg-g020v=WhQSbD51C5uPrEEYtmw@mail.gmail.com>

There are a couple reasons why more people are active on the ISS digipeater
(IMHO):

It's somewhat deaf.
The barrage of unattended stations that beacon every few seconds.

With that said, it's still easy to work and a lot of fun. I frequently work
it using a vintage Kenwood TH-D7 and an Arrow. What makes it more fun
(challenging) for me is that the D7 cannot store 'canned' messages and I
have to type out each message in T9 format, live, during the pass.

Even with all the garbage, unattended stations beaconning their email
addresses and other junk, it's still quite possible to make contacts. As
long as there are these unattended stations, it will make working APRS via
the ISS challenging. It may be challenging, but it's definitely not
impossible. There's really no need for things such as a Raspberry Pi or
other equipment, an old (20+ years) HT like my D7 is still plenty capable
of making contacts on the ISS, NO-84 (when it's on) and FalconSat-3.

My suggestion would be for the organization to work on educating the masses
about unattended operation on the APRS capable satellites. By removing that
QRM, it will make it much easier for live operators to have successful QSOs.

Jeff WE4B
http://we4bravo.com

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 2:57 PM Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> It's a shame that their are not more APRS messaging satellite QSOs being
> done via ARISS and other satellites.  Is this because...
>   * Lack of equipment?  * Erratic operational schedules?  * Proliferation
> of non-attended stations (beacons)?  * Too much button pushing?
> Most ops you an HT and very few of those have APRS messaging capability.
> Those HT's that do (including mobiles) are a bit clunky and require fast
> thumbs to complete all of the necessary steps to complete a QSO.  Of course
> the more you do it, the more second nature it becomes, but that circles
> back to the erratic scheduling.
> One solution could be to develop an app or software with prescribed
> message formatting and QSO automation, similar to similar FT8.
>   (click on target call in station list)  * [Target Call] [My Call] [My
> Grid]  * [My Call] [Target Call] (Target Grid]  * R [Target Grid]  * RR [My
> Grid]  (click on log QSO)
> Single board computers could easily handle the task (even the Pi Zero),
> for those worried about keeping their station small. Only thing left would
> be a microarduino TNC or soundcard and a couple cables to the HT mic and
> earphone jacks.
> Just a thought.
> 73, Robert KE4AL
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From aj9n at aol.com  Wed Aug 26 22:15:23 2020
From: aj9n at aol.com (aj9n at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 22:15:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-26 22:00
	UTC
References: <1457761593.5981306.1598480123382.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1457761593.5981306.1598480123382@mail.yahoo.com>


Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-08-26 22:00 UTC

?

Quick list of scheduled contacts and events:

?

The KMO Kolska Wyspa, Ko?o, Poland, telebridge via VK6MJ (***)

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be NA1SS (***) 

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR 

Contact is go for: Wed 2020-09-02 12:58:11 UTC 75 deg (***)

?

Watch for live stream at https://ariss.pzk.org.pl/live/ (***)

?

########################################################################################################################################

?

A multi-point telebridge contact means that each student will be on the telebridge from their own home.

*************************************************

?

ARISS is very aware of the impact that COVID-19 is having on schools and the public in general.? As such, we may have last minute cancellations or postponements of school contacts.? As always, I will try to provide everyone with near-real-time updates.? 

?

The following schools have now been postponed or cancelled due to COVID-19:? 

?

Postponed:

Maine Regional School Unit #21, Kennebunk, ME (***)

Oakwood School, Morgan Hill, CA (***)

?

Cancelled:

Monroe Carrell Jr. Children's Hospital at Vanderbilt, Nashville, TN (***)

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

?

Watch for future COVID-19 related announcements here also.

?

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

?

Note, all times are approximate. ?It is recommended that you do your own 

orbital prediction?or start listening about 10 minutes before the listed 

time. 

All dates and times listed follow International Standard ISO 8601 date and 

time format YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS

?

The complete schedule page has been updated as of?2020-08-26 22:00 UTC. (***)

Here you will find a listing of all scheduled?school contacts, and 

questions, other ISS related websites, IRLP and Echolink websites, and 

instructions for any contact that may be streamed live.

?

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf 

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.txt 

?

?

The successful school list has been updated as of 2020-08-24 15:00 UTC. 

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/Successful_ARISS_schools.rtf 

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

?

Message to US Educators

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States) 

?

The Proposal Window of February 1, 2020 to March 31, 2020 has now closed.

?

For future proposal information and more details such as expectations, proposal guidelines and proposal form, and dates and times of Information Webinars, go to www.ariss.org.

?

Please direct any questions to?ariss.us.education at gmail.com.

?

About ARISS:

?

Amateur Radio on the International Space Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radio societies and the space agencies that support the International Space Station (ISS).? In the United States, sponsors are the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio Relay League (ARRL), the ISS National Lab and National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEAM) topics by organizing scheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS and students in classrooms or public forms. Before and during these radio contacts, students, educators, parents, and communities learn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. For more information, see www.ariss.org.

?

********************************************************************************

ARISS Contact Applications (Europe, Africa and the Middle East)

?

Schools and Youth organizations in Europe, Africa and the Middle East interested in setting up an ARISS radio contact with an astronaut on board the International Space Station are invited to submit an application from September to October and from February to April.

Please refer to details and the application form at www.ariss-eu.org/school-contacts.? Applications should be addressed by email to:? school.selection.manager at ariss-eu.org

?

ARISS Contact Applications (Canada, Central and South America, Asia and Australia and Russia)

?

Organizations outside the United States can apply for an ARISS contact by filling out an application.? Please direct questions to the appropriate regional representative listed below. If your country is not specifically listed, send your questions to the nearest ARISS Region listed. If you are unsure which address to use, please send your question to the ARISS-Canada representative; they will forward your question to the appropriate coordinator.

?

For the application, go to:? https://www.ariss.org/ariss-application.html.

ARISS-Canada and the Americas, except USA: Steve McFarlane, VE3TBD email to: ve3tbd at gmail.com

ARISS-Japan, Asia, Pacific and Australia: Satoshi Yasuda, 7M3TJZ email to: ariss at iaru-r3.org, Japan Amateur Radio League (JARL) https://www.jarl.org/

ARISS-Russia: Soyuz Radioljubitelei Rossii (SRR) https://srr.ru/

?

?

******************************************************************************

ARISS is always glad to receive listener reports for the above contacts.? ARISS thanks everyone in advance for their assistance.? Feel free to send your reports to aj9n at amsat.org or aj9n at aol.com.

?

Listen for the ISS on the downlink of 145.8? MHz.

?

*******************************************************************************

?

All ARISS contacts are made via the Kenwood radio unless otherwise noted.

?

*******************************************************************************


Several of you have sent me emails asking about the RAC ARISS website and 
not being able to get in. ?That has now been changed to https://www.ariss.org/

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

****************************************************************************

Looking for something new to do?? How about receiving DATV from the ISS?? Please note that the HamTV system has been brought back to earth for troubleshooting.? Please monitor ARISS-EU or ARISS-ON for the very latest news on the troubleshooting efforts.? 

?

If interested, then please go to the ARISS-EU website for complete details.? Look for the buttons indicating Ham Video.???????????? 

?

http://www.ariss-eu.org/

?

If you need some assistance, ARISS mentor Kerry N6IZW, might be able to provide some insight. ?Contact Kerry at kbanke at sbcglobal.net

?

?

The HamTV webpage:? https://www.amsat-on.be/hamtv-summary/

?

?

****************************************************************************
ARISS congratulations the following mentors who have now mentored over 100 schools: 

?

Francesco IK?WGF with 140

Satoshi 7M3TJZ with 138 

Sergey RV3DR with 135 

Gaston ON4WF with 123

?

****************************************************************************

The webpages listed below were all reviewed for accuracy. Out of date 

webpages were removed, and new ones have been added.? If there are additional 

ARISS websites I need to know about, please let me know.

?

?

?

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school events is 1396. 

Each school counts as 1 event.?????????????????????????????????? 

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school contacts is 1329. 

Each contact may have multiple schools sharing the same time slot.

Total number of ARISS supported terrestrial contacts is 48. 

?

A complete year by year breakdown of the contacts may be found in the 

file.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf

?

Please feel free to contact me if more detailed statistics are needed.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



The following US states and entities have never had an ARISS contact:
South Dakota, Wyoming, American?Samoa, Guam, Northern Marianas Islands, and the Virgin Islands.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

?

QSL information may be found at:

https://www.ariss.org/qsl-cards.html

?

ISS callsigns: DP?ISS, IR?ISS, NA1SS, OR4ISS, RS?ISS

?

****************************************************************************



Frequency chart for packet, voice, and crossband repeater modes showing 

Doppler correction as of 2005-07-29 04:00 UTC

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/ISS_frequencies_and_Doppler_correction.rtf



Check out the Zoho reports of the ARISS contacts

?

https://reports.zoho.com/ZDBDataSheetView.cc?DBID=412218000000020415

****************************************************************************

?

Exp. 62 now on orbit 

Chris Cassidy KF5KDR

Anatoli Ivanishin

Ivan Vagner

****************************************************************************

73,

Charlie?Sufana AJ9N
One of the ARISS operation team mentors

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?



From kb2mjeff at att.net  Wed Aug 26 23:47:22 2020
From: kb2mjeff at att.net (kb2mjeff at att.net)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 19:47:22 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] APRS Messaging QSOs
In-Reply-To: <1017482055.8134172.1598474615449@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <985557086.8057019.1598468474766.ref@mail.yahoo.com>	<985557086.8057019.1598468474766@mail.yahoo.com>	<475846391.8091565.1598469303490@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1017482055.8134172.1598474615449@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000101d67c03$3f0beaa0$bd23bfe0$@att.net>

Here is something I used to  use to type in messages while mobile with my D-700 years ago. It worked great for typing in APRS messages in the Kenwood radios...

https://www.eham.net/reviews/view-product?id=4960

I wonder if it is still available, what do you think John?

73 Jeff kb2m
 
amsat-bb at amsat.org
-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 4:44 PM
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] APRS Messaging QSOs

I was not aware of the TNC from Mobilinkd, so thanks for the tip.
  
Interesting that their newest version includes BT connectivity to a smartphone app - something that almost every op has handy when making "portable" sat QSOs.  It's compatible with APRSdroid and they are working on adding iOS.
  
A prescribed format APRS message app, running on a smartphone, would be an interesting alternative to the raspberry pi route.  The TNC's small form factor would make it more usable.
  
$120 is a reasonable solution for those who do not want to build one.  For the more adventurous types, building one looks like only $20-$30 worth of parts.
  
NOTE: I own APRS capable HTs and Mobiles and have made APRS QSOs; however, I am exploring ways to make APRS messaging more accessible and more enjoyable for everyone.  I think automating/symplifying the QSO process, with a low-cost add on to existing equipment, could do that.
  
Robert KE4AL
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From w3ab at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 26 23:57:27 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (GEO Badger)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 23:57:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] APRS Messaging QSOs
In-Reply-To: <000101d67c03$3f0beaa0$bd23bfe0$@att.net>
References: <985557086.8057019.1598468474766.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<985557086.8057019.1598468474766@mail.yahoo.com>
	<475846391.8091565.1598469303490@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1017482055.8134172.1598474615449@mail.yahoo.com>
	<000101d67c03$3f0beaa0$bd23bfe0$@att.net>
Message-ID: <5647803.8216005.1598486247022@mail.yahoo.com>

Alas, no longer available.
---? 
 Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side??
73 de W3AB/GEO ??? 

 http://www.w3ab.org

You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out". 

    On Wednesday, August 26, 2020, 04:49:55 PM PDT, Jeff via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 Here is something I used to? use to type in messages while mobile with my D-700 years ago. It worked great for typing in APRS messages in the Kenwood radios...

https://www.eham.net/reviews/view-product?id=4960

I wonder if it is still available, what do you think John?

73 Jeff kb2m
 
amsat-bb at amsat.org
-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 4:44 PM
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] APRS Messaging QSOs

I was not aware of the TNC from Mobilinkd, so thanks for the tip.
? 
Interesting that their newest version includes BT connectivity to a smartphone app - something that almost every op has handy when making "portable" sat QSOs.? It's compatible with APRSdroid and they are working on adding iOS.
? 
A prescribed format APRS message app, running on a smartphone, would be an interesting alternative to the raspberry pi route.? The TNC's small form factor would make it more usable.
? 
$120 is a reasonable solution for those who do not want to build one.? For the more adventurous types, building one looks like only $20-$30 worth of parts.
? 
NOTE: I own APRS capable HTs and Mobiles and have made APRS QSOs; however, I am exploring ways to make APRS messaging more accessible and more enjoyable for everyone.? I think automating/symplifying the QSO process, with a low-cost add on to existing equipment, could do that.
? 
Robert KE4AL
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Thu Aug 27 00:14:01 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 19:14:01 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] APRS Messaging QSOs
In-Reply-To: <CA+QOuE6POH_V8yST0yksYXUg-g020v=WhQSbD51C5uPrEEYtmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <985557086.8057019.1598468474766.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<985557086.8057019.1598468474766@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CA+QOuE6POH_V8yST0yksYXUg-g020v=WhQSbD51C5uPrEEYtmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <19553954-a666-de9e-14a3-eef2cc0e0b26@pobox.com>

On 08/26/20 16:04, Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> The barrage of unattended stations that beacon every few seconds.

This is the main problem with ALOHA-like TX scheduling, or lack thereof.[1]

We're using slow, outdated Bell 202 modems to transmit data on 2 meters. 
There are better ways, and better technology to do so.

Take, for instance, the proliferation of "sub-1GHz" digital radio modem 
chips from TI, ST, NXP, Silicon Labs, ON semi, etc. Many of them can 
transmit in most amateur bands between 2m and 928MHz.

Let's get out of the 2m packet mindset and on to higher data rate 
networks on 1.25m, 70cm, and 33cm!

I've got a small back-burner project which I hope to share when I get 
some time. It is along these lines.

--- Zach
N0ZGO

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALOHAnet#Pure_ALOHA

From yono_adisoemarta at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 27 00:55:30 2020
From: yono_adisoemarta at yahoo.com (Yono Adisoemarta)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 07:55:30 +0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] APRS Messaging QSOs
In-Reply-To: <985557086.8057019.1598468474766@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <985557086.8057019.1598468474766@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DFF47455-E44E-4487-996A-DDEAA4E694AF@yahoo.com>

Over here in Indonesia, APRS via satellite is busy whenever IO-86 passes with APRS mode or ISS.
Typically 3-5 stations are exchanging messages. 
The equipment ranges from Baofeng HT with aprsdroid on smartphone to a Moxon antenna up to UISS on a regular computer.

Gotta go, IO-86 is coming in a minute with APRS mode.

73 de Yono - YD0NXX 
Jakarta, Indonesia 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 27, 2020, at 2:04 AM, Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?It's a shame that their are not more APRS messaging satellite QSOs being done via ARISS and other satellites.  Is this because... 
>   * Lack of equipment?  * Erratic operational schedules?  * Proliferation of non-attended stations (beacons)?  * Too much button pushing?
> Most ops you an HT and very few of those have APRS messaging capability.  Those HT's that do (including mobiles) are a bit clunky and require fast thumbs to complete all of the necessary steps to complete a QSO.  Of course the more you do it, the more second nature it becomes, but that circles back to the erratic scheduling.
> One solution could be to develop an app or software with prescribed message formatting and QSO automation, similar to similar FT8.
>   (click on target call in station list)  * [Target Call] [My Call] [My Grid]  * [My Call] [Target Call] (Target Grid]  * R [Target Grid]  * RR [My Grid]  (click on log QSO)
> Single board computers could easily handle the task (even the Pi Zero), for those worried about keeping their station small. Only thing left would be a microarduino TNC or soundcard and a couple cables to the HT mic and earphone jacks.
> Just a thought.
> 73, Robert KE4AL
> _______________________________________________
> 


From bruninga at usna.edu  Thu Aug 27 14:41:27 2020
From: bruninga at usna.edu (Robert Bruninga)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 10:41:27 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] APRS Messaging QSOs (aux keyboard)
In-Reply-To: <5647803.8216005.1598486247022@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <985557086.8057019.1598468474766.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<985557086.8057019.1598468474766@mail.yahoo.com>
	<475846391.8091565.1598469303490@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1017482055.8134172.1598474615449@mail.yahoo.com>
	<000101d67c03$3f0beaa0$bd23bfe0$@att.net>
	<5647803.8216005.1598486247022@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CALdCfN+YSWcfQDjUvu2VThB6yDxm5ypNkWBCMGDp=g7r9vP2gQ@mail.gmail.com>

What I wish APRS radio manufacturers would do is add parsing on the GPS
port for messages from an external keyboard.  Then let hams build the
external keyboard.

The GPS parser is looking for GPXXX strings and could eequlaly well look
for APMSG...
And the external keyboard could generate the APMSG..... message.
Would seem to be a trivial ask...

Bob


On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 7:57 PM GEO Badger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Alas, no longer available.
> ---
>  Here is something I used to  use to type in messages while mobile with my
> D-700 years ago. It worked great for typing in APRS messages in the Kenwood
> radios...
>
> https://www.eham.net/reviews/view-product?id=4960
>
> I wonder if it is still available, what do you think John?
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m
>
>
>

From bruninga at usna.edu  Thu Aug 27 14:58:59 2020
From: bruninga at usna.edu (Robert Bruninga)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 10:58:59 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] APRS Messaging QSOs
In-Reply-To: <CA+QOuE6POH_V8yST0yksYXUg-g020v=WhQSbD51C5uPrEEYtmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <985557086.8057019.1598468474766.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<985557086.8057019.1598468474766@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CA+QOuE6POH_V8yST0yksYXUg-g020v=WhQSbD51C5uPrEEYtmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALdCfN+Ak3P4bxc2L98zeJ5jiGUXqrhTQjP=fn=_gChrUdu6GA@mail.gmail.com>

>
> > I frequently work
> it using a vintage Kenwood TH-D7 and an Arrow. What makes it more fun
> (challenging) for me is that the D7 cannot store 'canned' messages and I
> have to type out each message in T9 format, live, during the pass.
>
> Hummh.. I do not remember such a limitation.  Cannot you just call up an
old message and  edit/resend it?
Bob

>
>

From wthypsi at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 27 18:14:52 2020
From: wthypsi at yahoo.com (William Herzberg)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 14:14:52 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] TS-2000x PROGRAMMING
Message-ID: <20200827182602.8788492E1@lansing182.amsat.org>

HELLO ALL?

Ive been using a TS-2000x for over 3 years now?

Ive been using it for both normal HF as well as the satellites?

Ive found it an excellent satellite rig?

The only problem with it is that its only got 10 pre-programmed memory channels?

But it does have 300 main memory channels?

I programmed it with all the frequencies used by W1AW?

That give me an excellent indication as to which bands are open?

I often checked the upper HF frequencies to see if the bands are open?

Over the last several weeks, there have been afternoons and evenings when I was able to hear the broadcasts all the way up to 10 meters?.

Usually the broadcasts cut off above 17 meters?.

Ive found that Its easiest to program the analog sats into the satellite memories?

That leaves the main channels to program the FM birds?

It does mean that if I am trying to access the FM birds, I have to program at least 2 channels for  each FM satellite?

One channel for uplink, the other for downlink?

 It works quite well?..

Ive made 300 contacts through both the FM and the Analog satellites this way?

It also works to monitor the beacon satellites?

I can copy LO-19 quite well?.

That satellites been up for more than 30 years?

It sends a steady carrier?.

But its got a really good signal?

Ive recently acquired an ICOM IC-9700?

It does work quite well?

But I still think my Kenwood works a bit better?

BTW?

Im using the rigs barefoot?less than 80 watts?into an Eggbeater on top of the roof?

I have a UHF preamp?.

It kicks things up by almost twice the signal strengths?

Ive got to return a 2 meter preamp because it doesn?t work?.

But that should boost up the 2 meter signals?

Good luck all?

Hope to see ya on the birds?

I made my first qsos  on the 9700?

Im hoping the new upgrades will boost things up a bit?

73?
de Bill, AA8WH?

Sent from Mail for Windows 10


From bkeating1954 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 18:48:35 2020
From: bkeating1954 at gmail.com (Bob Keating)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 11:48:35 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Roving DM07/08 gridline
Message-ID: <dd19fec9-9e29-596c-2ef0-f52cf73bbcac@gmail.com>

I will be on vacation next week in the Eastern Sierra and plan to work 
AO-91, AO-92 and PO-101 from the DM07/08 gridline on a holiday schedule 
from Wednesday, Sept. 2 to Saturday, Sept. 5. I will post more info once 
we arrive. Hope to work you on the birds.

73,

Bob N6REK


From hobergenix at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 19:01:56 2020
From: hobergenix at gmail.com (Mike Hoblinski)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 12:01:56 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] ElectroSense Up/Down Converter board for 0-6 Ghz
Message-ID: <CAMpzqDGy5V_avrMjQ_M6H2p3vMdWQXyWV+sD4qm9PHSQ+TzMQQ@mail.gmail.com>

I read this on the RTL-SDR web site and thought it might be of some
interest.
It's a converter board being developed for a spectrum monitoring project.
Its a
low cost converter board to be used with a RTL-Sdr dongle and a Raspberry
pi board and it may be capable of working up to 13 Ghz.

https://www.rtl-sdr.com/testing-the-electrosense-up-downconverter-expansion-board-for-0-6-ghz/


ElectroSense Project and Board website.
https://electrosense.org/#!/

Mike
N6IMF

From wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc  Thu Aug 27 19:14:15 2020
From: wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc (Burns Fisher)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 15:14:15 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] TS-2000x PROGRAMMING
In-Reply-To: <20200827182602.8788492E1@lansing182.amsat.org>
References: <20200827182602.8788492E1@lansing182.amsat.org>
Message-ID: <CABX7KxVbCD+HZ8CVhEpof18sQfuH8MOqiVJ6CV-xaAhgU2bLvQ@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, Bill's mail just made me think that maybe the original writer is asking
how to remotely program the Satellite memories!  I never thought of that
since I never have used them. I just use computer aided tuning so all the
satellite memories are on my computer :-)

Burns WB1FJ

On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 2:32 PM William Herzberg via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> HELLO ALL?
>
> Ive been using a TS-2000x for over 3 years now?
>
> Ive been using it for both normal HF as well as the satellites?
>
> Ive found it an excellent satellite rig?
>
> The only problem with it is that its only got 10 pre-programmed memory
> channels?
>
> But it does have 300 main memory channels?
>
> I programmed it with all the frequencies used by W1AW?
>
> That give me an excellent indication as to which bands are open?
>
> I often checked the upper HF frequencies to see if the bands are open?
>
> Over the last several weeks, there have been afternoons and evenings when
> I was able to hear the broadcasts all the way up to 10 meters?.
>
> Usually the broadcasts cut off above 17 meters?.
>
> Ive found that Its easiest to program the analog sats into the satellite
> memories?
>
> That leaves the main channels to program the FM birds?
>
> It does mean that if I am trying to access the FM birds, I have to program
> at least 2 channels for  each FM satellite?
>
> One channel for uplink, the other for downlink?
>
>  It works quite well?..
>
> Ive made 300 contacts through both the FM and the Analog satellites this
> way?
>
> It also works to monitor the beacon satellites?
>
> I can copy LO-19 quite well?.
>
> That satellites been up for more than 30 years?
>
> It sends a steady carrier?.
>
> But its got a really good signal?
>
> Ive recently acquired an ICOM IC-9700?
>
> It does work quite well?
>
> But I still think my Kenwood works a bit better?
>
> BTW?
>
> Im using the rigs barefoot?less than 80 watts?into an Eggbeater on top of
> the roof?
>
> I have a UHF preamp?.
>
> It kicks things up by almost twice the signal strengths?
>
> Ive got to return a 2 meter preamp because it doesn?t work?.
>
> But that should boost up the 2 meter signals?
>
> Good luck all?
>
> Hope to see ya on the birds?
>
> I made my first qsos  on the 9700?
>
> Im hoping the new upgrades will boost things up a bit?
>
> 73?
> de Bill, AA8WH?
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc  Thu Aug 27 21:41:35 2020
From: wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc (Burns Fisher)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 17:41:35 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] ElectroSense Up/Down Converter board for 0-6 Ghz
In-Reply-To: <CAMpzqDGy5V_avrMjQ_M6H2p3vMdWQXyWV+sD4qm9PHSQ+TzMQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMpzqDGy5V_avrMjQ_M6H2p3vMdWQXyWV+sD4qm9PHSQ+TzMQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABX7KxW=_tKymV_+cM_CYZiC5JHe3sxyM8=Bfx+tpE84o3DkRQ@mail.gmail.com>

Cool!  Thank you!

On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 3:05 PM Mike Hoblinski via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I read this on the RTL-SDR web site and thought it might be of some
> interest.
> It's a converter board being developed for a spectrum monitoring project.
> Its a
> low cost converter board to be used with a RTL-Sdr dongle and a Raspberry
> pi board and it may be capable of working up to 13 Ghz.
>
>
> https://www.rtl-sdr.com/testing-the-electrosense-up-downconverter-expansion-board-for-0-6-ghz/
>
>
> ElectroSense Project and Board website.
> https://electrosense.org/#!/
>
> Mike
> N6IMF
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From wandtosborne at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 02:42:00 2020
From: wandtosborne at gmail.com (Wendy and Terry Osborne)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2020 14:42:00 +1200
Subject: [amsat-bb] Rocket Lab Launch postponed again
Message-ID: <cec19752-98ba-dd2d-1b75-50cf563908d8@gmail.com>

The weather at the launch is not looking very good for today or tomorrow.
See: https://twitter.com/RocketLab/status/1299090222462808064
New launch date Sunday 30th August .
See: https://twitter.com/RocketLab/status/1299090967568330752

73,
Terry Osborne ZL2BAC

From af5cc2 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 03:01:38 2020
From: af5cc2 at gmail.com (John Geiger)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2020 22:01:38 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Noise Blanker in FM
Message-ID: <CAHC1P2-SZrOB8emMfr6n1qPMVZ-4cnyTU_LO4_AwmTL476Nm2Q@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone on the list know of any satellite radios or 2 meter radios that
have a noise blanker that functions in FM mode?  I am getting some bad
noise to my north and northeast that is interfering with the FM sats, so am
looking for a rig that can help with this.

73 John AF5CC

From karn at ka9q.net  Sat Aug 29 08:26:32 2020
From: karn at ka9q.net (Phil Karn)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 01:26:32 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Noise Blanker in FM
In-Reply-To: <CAHC1P2-SZrOB8emMfr6n1qPMVZ-4cnyTU_LO4_AwmTL476Nm2Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHC1P2-SZrOB8emMfr6n1qPMVZ-4cnyTU_LO4_AwmTL476Nm2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7329a5d4-9097-2c6b-5400-323c30cc5105@ka9q.net>

On 8/28/20 20:01, John Geiger via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Does anyone on the list know of any satellite radios or 2 meter radios that
> have a noise blanker that functions in FM mode?  I am getting some bad
> noise to my north and northeast that is interfering with the FM sats, so am
> looking for a rig that can help with this.
>
> 73 John AF5CC
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

Can you characterize the noise? Impulse? Regular? Power line corona?





From hbasri.schiers6 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 13:15:34 2020
From: hbasri.schiers6 at gmail.com (Hasan N0AN)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 08:15:34 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Doppler Tracking Discontinuity at TCA - Problem Solved
Message-ID: <CAM4UQf2vih=5dK8v=AqO+SqV5P4GEd5MsX66V2y__qBbWg3BSA@mail.gmail.com>

Over the last week or two, I have been getting a 200 Hz discontinuity jump
in my uplink frequency at TCA (Time of Closest Approach), also known as the
zero doppler point. This happened on every bird, every pass. (all mode B,
70cm up, 2m down)

AOS was early, LOS was late, and doppler tracking was non-linear and had
the bad jump at TCA.

Today, thanks to K5GZR and KB7IJ, the problem source was identified and
corrected.

It was caused by a terrible error in the definition of my Home Altitude. I
typed in, 350 meters. The program took it 35,000 meters.

I corrected it and now doppler tracking in SDRC v3.x is perfect.

If anyone else ever gets a set of symptoms like mine, take a look at your
Home QTH altitude setting. Being off by a factor of 100:1 makes a
difference.

73, N0AN

Hasan

From k8tl at earthlink.net  Sat Aug 29 16:08:42 2020
From: k8tl at earthlink.net (Tom Lubbers K8TL)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 12:08:42 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: [amsat-bb] G5400 rotator position pot.
Message-ID: <1803177975.2222.1598717322488@wamui-hyena.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Anyone know a source or a replacement pot for the Yaesu G5400 azimuth  rotor. That's the 500 ohm pot that measures the position. 

Tom K8TL 

From tjschuessler at verizon.net  Sat Aug 29 16:35:51 2020
From: tjschuessler at verizon.net (tjschuessler at verizon.net)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 11:35:51 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Proximity to grid line boundary
References: <003c01d67e22$75b14cf0$6113e6d0$.ref@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <003c01d67e22$75b14cf0$6113e6d0$@verizon.net>

For my information, as I am not much of a rover, but  as I may be doing a
little local grid rove sometime next weekend by request, how far from a grid
boundary can you be for it to count?  I found a 4 corners grid boundary in
my area, but it is way rural in a deep clump of vegetation with a dirt road
a couple hundred feet away.  What is the maximum deviation from an X
.000000; Y.000000 location for it to be legal as a 4 grid location?  I will
probably do a much easier 2 grid line location, but just wondering.

Thanks much.

Tom Schuessler, N5HYP
EM12ms




From kb2ysi at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 16:46:59 2020
From: kb2ysi at gmail.com (Don KB2YSI)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 12:46:59 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Proximity to grid line boundary
In-Reply-To: <003c01d67e22$75b14cf0$6113e6d0$@verizon.net>
References: <003c01d67e22$75b14cf0$6113e6d0$.ref@verizon.net>
	<003c01d67e22$75b14cf0$6113e6d0$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <CAAJiE8O2DXQR=QvfuGgLVxkqqy2ZrGfFEtG37nUTsszfqEZQTQ@mail.gmail.com>

The VUCC rules (
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Awards/VUCC%20Rules%20April%202020.pdf)
state:

(F) Grid boundary lines and grid corners must be established using a GPS
receiver whose map datum is set to WGS84, the global default for curif nt
GPS receivers. The GPS receiver should be set to use WAAS (Wide Area
Augmentation System) if so equipped, since this improves the error figure
to as little as 5 feet. In no case may the GPS receiver show an error
figure in excess of 20 feet. Any modern GPS receiver equipped with WAAS
will easily meet this requirement, as will most older
 units without WAAS.

On Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 12:37 Tom Schuessler, N5HYP via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> For my information, as I am not much of a rover, but  as I may be doing a
> little local grid rove sometime next weekend by request, how far from a
> grid
> boundary can you be for it to count?  I found a 4 corners grid boundary in
> my area, but it is way rural in a deep clump of vegetation with a dirt road
> a couple hundred feet away.  What is the maximum deviation from an X
> .000000; Y.000000 location for it to be legal as a 4 grid location?  I will
> probably do a much easier 2 grid line location, but just wondering.
>
> Thanks much.
>
> Tom Schuessler, N5HYP
> EM12ms
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From michael at n4dcw.com  Sat Aug 29 16:54:03 2020
From: michael at n4dcw.com (Michael Whitman)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 12:54:03 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Proximity to grid line boundary
In-Reply-To: <CAAJiE8O2DXQR=QvfuGgLVxkqqy2ZrGfFEtG37nUTsszfqEZQTQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003c01d67e22$75b14cf0$6113e6d0$.ref@verizon.net>
	<003c01d67e22$75b14cf0$6113e6d0$@verizon.net>
	<CAAJiE8O2DXQR=QvfuGgLVxkqqy2ZrGfFEtG37nUTsszfqEZQTQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <23EA625E-6F0E-4722-9978-F265ABA4B590@n4dcw.com>

You should operate at the spot where your GPS receiver (using the settings/rules that Don highlighted) reads out *.000000 for a line or *.000000, *.000000 for a corner. 

73,
Michael, N4DCW

--

Michael Whitman
michael at n4dcw.com
Home Grid: EM78

> On Aug 29, 2020, at 12:46 PM, Don KB2YSI via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> The VUCC rules (
> http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Awards/VUCC%20Rules%20April%202020.pdf)
> state:
> 
> (F) Grid boundary lines and grid corners must be established using a GPS
> receiver whose map datum is set to WGS84, the global default for curif nt
> GPS receivers. The GPS receiver should be set to use WAAS (Wide Area
> Augmentation System) if so equipped, since this improves the error figure
> to as little as 5 feet. In no case may the GPS receiver show an error
> figure in excess of 20 feet. Any modern GPS receiver equipped with WAAS
> will easily meet this requirement, as will most older
> units without WAAS.
> 
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 12:37 Tom Schuessler, N5HYP via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
>> For my information, as I am not much of a rover, but  as I may be doing a
>> little local grid rove sometime next weekend by request, how far from a
>> grid
>> boundary can you be for it to count?  I found a 4 corners grid boundary in
>> my area, but it is way rural in a deep clump of vegetation with a dirt road
>> a couple hundred feet away.  What is the maximum deviation from an X
>> .000000; Y.000000 location for it to be legal as a 4 grid location?  I will
>> probably do a much easier 2 grid line location, but just wondering.
>> 
>> Thanks much.
>> 
>> Tom Schuessler, N5HYP
>> EM12ms
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 


From kx9x at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 29 17:15:30 2020
From: kx9x at yahoo.com (Sean K.)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 17:15:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Proximity to grid line boundary
In-Reply-To: <CAAJiE8O2DXQR=QvfuGgLVxkqqy2ZrGfFEtG37nUTsszfqEZQTQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003c01d67e22$75b14cf0$6113e6d0$.ref@verizon.net>
	<003c01d67e22$75b14cf0$6113e6d0$@verizon.net>
	<CAAJiE8O2DXQR=QvfuGgLVxkqqy2ZrGfFEtG37nUTsszfqEZQTQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1504914038.194376.1598721330015@mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Tom-
I helped overhaul the VUCC rules when I was at ARRL HQ.

This paragraph spells it out:

"Stations who claim to operate from more than one grid locator simultaneously (i.e., from the boundary between two grid locators or from the intersection of four grid locators) must be physically present in all locators to give multiple locator credit with a single contact. These stations should be prepared to validate their claim. For a mobile station, this means parking the vehicle exactly on the line or corner. For a portable station, this means that the total area occupied by the station's physical setup, including operating position(s), power source(s), and antenna(s), must occupy some portion of each of the two/four grid squares simultaneously. Operators of boundary/corner stations should be prepared to provide evidence of meeting the simultaneous occupation test if called upon to do so. Two photographs -- one showing the placement of the GPS receiver in the station setup, and a close-up legibly showing the GPS reading ? are typically needed as evidence of compliance. Video footage showing an overview of the operating site and then, uncut and in real time, zooming in on the GPS display coordinates is even better."
Sean Kutzko Amateur Radio KX9XAMSAT Volunteer Coordinatorhttps://amsat.org/volunteer 

    On Saturday, August 29, 2020, 11:48:39 AM CDT, Don KB2YSI via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 The VUCC rules (
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Awards/VUCC%20Rules%20April%202020.pdf)
state:

(F) Grid boundary lines and grid corners must be established using a GPS
receiver whose map datum is set to WGS84, the global default for curif nt
GPS receivers. The GPS receiver should be set to use WAAS (Wide Area
Augmentation System) if so equipped, since this improves the error figure
to as little as 5 feet. In no case may the GPS receiver show an error
figure in excess of 20 feet. Any modern GPS receiver equipped with WAAS
will easily meet this requirement, as will most older
 units without WAAS.

On Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 12:37 Tom Schuessler, N5HYP via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> For my information, as I am not much of a rover, but? as I may be doing a
> little local grid rove sometime next weekend by request, how far from a
> grid
> boundary can you be for it to count?? I found a 4 corners grid boundary in
> my area, but it is way rural in a deep clump of vegetation with a dirt road
> a couple hundred feet away.? What is the maximum deviation from an X
> .000000; Y.000000 location for it to be legal as a 4 grid location?? I will
> probably do a much easier 2 grid line location, but just wondering.
>
> Thanks much.
>
> Tom Schuessler, N5HYP
> EM12ms
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From tjschuessler at verizon.net  Sat Aug 29 17:15:45 2020
From: tjschuessler at verizon.net (tjschuessler at verizon.net)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 12:15:45 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Proximity to grid line boundary
In-Reply-To: <23EA625E-6F0E-4722-9978-F265ABA4B590@n4dcw.com>
References: <003c01d67e22$75b14cf0$6113e6d0$.ref@verizon.net>
	<003c01d67e22$75b14cf0$6113e6d0$@verizon.net>
	<CAAJiE8O2DXQR=QvfuGgLVxkqqy2ZrGfFEtG37nUTsszfqEZQTQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<23EA625E-6F0E-4722-9978-F265ABA4B590@n4dcw.com>
Message-ID: <004e01d67e28$08da3c80$1a8eb580$@verizon.net>

Which is obviously why it is a lot harder to hit a 4 corners location
because it will invariably plop you in a grove of dense vegetation.  I will
stick with the two grid on the line on a main rod thing because I can get it
right.

From: Michael Whitman <michael at n4dcw.com> 
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2020 11:54 AM
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Cc: Don KB2YSI <kb2ysi at gmail.com>; Tom Schuessler <tjschuessler at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Proximity to grid line boundary

You should operate at the spot where your GPS receiver (using the
settings/rules that Don highlighted) reads out *.000000 for a line or
*.000000, *.000000 for a corner.?

73,
Michael, N4DCW

--

Michael Whitman
mailto:michael at n4dcw.com
Home Grid: EM78


On Aug 29, 2020, at 12:46 PM, Don KB2YSI via AMSAT-BB
<mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

The VUCC rules (
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Awards/VUCC%20Rules%20April%202020.pdf)
state:

(F) Grid boundary lines and grid corners must be established using a GPS
receiver whose map datum is set to WGS84, the global default for curif nt
GPS receivers. The GPS receiver should be set to use WAAS (Wide Area
Augmentation System) if so equipped, since this improves the error figure
to as little as 5 feet. In no case may the GPS receiver show an error
figure in excess of 20 feet. Any modern GPS receiver equipped with WAAS
will easily meet this requirement, as will most older
units without WAAS.

On Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 12:37 Tom Schuessler, N5HYP via AMSAT-BB <
mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:


For my information, as I am not much of a rover, but ?as I may be doing a
little local grid rove sometime next weekend by request, how far from a
grid
boundary can you be for it to count? ?I found a 4 corners grid boundary in
my area, but it is way rural in a deep clump of vegetation with a dirt road
a couple hundred feet away. ?What is the maximum deviation from an X
.000000; Y.000000 location for it to be legal as a 4 grid location? ?I will
probably do a much easier 2 grid line location, but just wondering.

Thanks much.

Tom Schuessler, N5HYP
EM12ms



_______________________________________________
Sent via mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb



From wa7fwf at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 17:17:19 2020
From: wa7fwf at gmail.com (Kevin)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 10:17:19 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] G5400 rotator position pot.
In-Reply-To: <1803177975.2222.1598717322488@wamui-hyena.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <1803177975.2222.1598717322488@wamui-hyena.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <36af93ef-1ad3-de53-8cee-b6e712d0b894@gmail.com>

yaesuparts at yaesu.com or 714-827-7600 x 4

On 8/29/2020 9:08 AM, Tom Lubbers K8TL via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Anyone know a source or a replacement pot for the Yaesu G5400 azimuth  rotor. That's the 500 ohm pot that measures the position.
>
> Tom K8TL
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From bruce at perens.com  Sat Aug 29 17:52:10 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 10:52:10 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Doppler Tracking Discontinuity at TCA - Problem
	Solved
In-Reply-To: <CAM4UQf2vih=5dK8v=AqO+SqV5P4GEd5MsX66V2y__qBbWg3BSA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM4UQf2vih=5dK8v=AqO+SqV5P4GEd5MsX66V2y__qBbWg3BSA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOvLYK1LoR1pDuJo=iuHwAqnVtpJOmBf6_L-J3___O0dqA@mail.gmail.com>

It's a software bug when the software quietly accepts an impossible
parameter.

On Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 6:17 AM Hasan N0AN via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Over the last week or two, I have been getting a 200 Hz discontinuity jump
> in my uplink frequency at TCA (Time of Closest Approach), also known as the
> zero doppler point. This happened on every bird, every pass. (all mode B,
> 70cm up, 2m down)
>
> AOS was early, LOS was late, and doppler tracking was non-linear and had
> the bad jump at TCA.
>
> Today, thanks to K5GZR and KB7IJ, the problem source was identified and
> corrected.
>
> It was caused by a terrible error in the definition of my Home Altitude. I
> typed in, 350 meters. The program took it 35,000 meters.
>
> I corrected it and now doppler tracking in SDRC v3.x is perfect.
>
> If anyone else ever gets a set of symptoms like mine, take a look at your
> Home QTH altitude setting. Being off by a factor of 100:1 makes a
> difference.
>
> 73, N0AN
>
> Hasan
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From hbasri.schiers6 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 18:15:52 2020
From: hbasri.schiers6 at gmail.com (Hasan N0AN)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 13:15:52 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Doppler Tracking Discontinuity at TCA - Problem
	Solved
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOvLYK1LoR1pDuJo=iuHwAqnVtpJOmBf6_L-J3___O0dqA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM4UQf2vih=5dK8v=AqO+SqV5P4GEd5MsX66V2y__qBbWg3BSA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvLYK1LoR1pDuJo=iuHwAqnVtpJOmBf6_L-J3___O0dqA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAM4UQf2Rk+FE8cQe_DnbdZgYS9rR_=Pd3G05Dt_xnLLArG+gGg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Bruce,
I'm sure it should be error trapped when an absolutely crazy value is
input, but I'm not pointing the finger at any programmer, when I, in fact,
input the wrong, really wrong, value.

I'm just glad I found it and now doppler tracking is perfectly even on an
89 degree overhead pass.

Considering all the things done right in the software, way beyond any other
program I've seen, I'm not going to complain.

The program auto-schedules, tracks, prioritizes and presents for decoding
AO-73, EO-88, JO-97, AO-91 and AO-92, with no operator intervention
whatsoever. Any number of birds can be added or deleted.

I can let it run overnight and come down and see every bird's TLM perfectly
decoded.

If I chose to, I could have it IQ record every pass and go back and decode
it again later.

The program is absolutely amazing. The fact that it accepted a ridiculous
input value from me without warning me, is to my way of thinking, small
potatoes. :-)

(SDR-Radio Console v 3.x )

5 EL Yagi > 60' Hardline > Duplexer > ARR GasFET > Funcube Pro+ SDR >
SDRConsole v3

Rotor control by SDRC > PSTrotator
15 deg uptilt yagi (5 EL on 2m, 8 EL on 70cm, interlaced, common feedpoint)

Anyone using an SDR that has not used SDRC for controlling it, for
satellite work, has no idea how enriching an SDR setup with good software
can be.

73, N0AN
Hasan


On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 12:52 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:

> It's a software bug when the software quietly accepts an impossible
> parameter.
>
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 6:17 AM Hasan N0AN via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Over the last week or two, I have been getting a 200 Hz discontinuity jump
>> in my uplink frequency at TCA (Time of Closest Approach), also known as
>> the
>> zero doppler point. This happened on every bird, every pass. (all mode B,
>> 70cm up, 2m down)
>>
>> AOS was early, LOS was late, and doppler tracking was non-linear and had
>> the bad jump at TCA.
>>
>> Today, thanks to K5GZR and KB7IJ, the problem source was identified and
>> corrected.
>>
>> It was caused by a terrible error in the definition of my Home Altitude. I
>> typed in, 350 meters. The program took it 35,000 meters.
>>
>> I corrected it and now doppler tracking in SDRC v3.x is perfect.
>>
>> If anyone else ever gets a set of symptoms like mine, take a look at your
>> Home QTH altitude setting. Being off by a factor of 100:1 makes a
>> difference.
>>
>> 73, N0AN
>>
>> Hasan
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>

From gary_mayfield at hotmail.com  Sat Aug 29 18:27:46 2020
From: gary_mayfield at hotmail.com (Gary)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 18:27:46 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] FW:  G5400 rotator position pot.
In-Reply-To: <CH2PR13MB3864E161BD40E04F154EB3F68A530@CH2PR13MB3864.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <1803177975.2222.1598717322488@wamui-hyena.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<CH2PR13MB3864E161BD40E04F154EB3F68A530@CH2PR13MB3864.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CH2PR13MB386406BBE0D417256C3317428A530@CH2PR13MB3864.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

I was unable to reply directly.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary 
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2020 11:43 AM
To: Tom Lubbers K8TL <k8tl at earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [amsat-bb] G5400 rotator position pot.

Tom,

	I hate emails that don't answer the questioned asked, but find myself doing it anyway. When I had a 5400 I was able to repair the pot. There used to be a wire that twisted as the pot turned. This wire liked to fail from repeated twisting. You may want to try replacing it.

73,
Gary kk0sd

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Tom Lubbers K8TL via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2020 11:09 AM
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] G5400 rotator position pot.

Anyone know a source or a replacement pot for the Yaesu G5400 azimuth  rotor. That's the 500 ohm pot that measures the position. 

Tom K8TL
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From wizardofzid at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 19:00:36 2020
From: wizardofzid at gmail.com (Russ Kinner)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 12:00:36 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] VUCC in the books
Message-ID: <7ikq3ypdyh76nujoxv2de87n.1598727636645@email.android.com>

I have with the latest LotW update yesterday exceeded 125 grids and have applied to the ARRL for the VUCC Satellite certificate with the 125 sticker.  Thanks to all the rovers such as AD0HJ, WY7AA, WD9EWK, N6DNM, K5ZM, N7EGY and many others.  
Now it's time to get out there myself so I'm planning a short trip to adjacent grids to get some of the lesser occupied AZ grids on the air.  It Will be FM only to begin with until I can upgrade my rig but maybe I can be someone's grid hero in a few months.I

For 6 months since my first contact post retirement, it's been loads of fun (and occasionally frustrating getting my signal in to the bird).  Made contacts even on AO-27!

Rusty, WA8ZID

From wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc  Sat Aug 29 19:07:34 2020
From: wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc (Burns Fisher)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 15:07:34 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Proximity to grid line boundary
In-Reply-To: <004e01d67e28$08da3c80$1a8eb580$@verizon.net>
References: <003c01d67e22$75b14cf0$6113e6d0$.ref@verizon.net>
	<003c01d67e22$75b14cf0$6113e6d0$@verizon.net>
	<CAAJiE8O2DXQR=QvfuGgLVxkqqy2ZrGfFEtG37nUTsszfqEZQTQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<23EA625E-6F0E-4722-9978-F265ABA4B590@n4dcw.com>
	<004e01d67e28$08da3c80$1a8eb580$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <CABX7KxVaXnoN-NrvQt6g-pt7hjbu3gQqJTnbmqiVK3gEOpKx-A@mail.gmail.com>

Just out of curiosity, how do the rules for states?  I tried to activate 3
states from a three-state boundary where there was a marker.  (It did not
work because of the same problem--trees and grass) but I'm wondering if the
marker would be sufficient evidence?  Depends who placed it, I suppose?

This was for an informal 'contest' but for something like WAS, I can
imagine it would be important.

Burns WB1FJ

On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 1:24 PM Tom Schuessler, N5HYP via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Which is obviously why it is a lot harder to hit a 4 corners location
> because it will invariably plop you in a grove of dense vegetation.  I will
> stick with the two grid on the line on a main rod thing because I can get
> it
> right.
>
> From: Michael Whitman <michael at n4dcw.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2020 11:54 AM
> To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Cc: Don KB2YSI <kb2ysi at gmail.com>; Tom Schuessler <
> tjschuessler at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Proximity to grid line boundary
>
> You should operate at the spot where your GPS receiver (using the
> settings/rules that Don highlighted) reads out *.000000 for a line or
> *.000000, *.000000 for a corner.
>
> 73,
> Michael, N4DCW
>
> --
>
> Michael Whitman
> mailto:michael at n4dcw.com
> Home Grid: EM78
>
>
> On Aug 29, 2020, at 12:46 PM, Don KB2YSI via AMSAT-BB
> <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> The VUCC rules (
> http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Awards/VUCC%20Rules%20April%202020.pdf)
> state:
>
> (F) Grid boundary lines and grid corners must be established using a GPS
> receiver whose map datum is set to WGS84, the global default for curif nt
> GPS receivers. The GPS receiver should be set to use WAAS (Wide Area
> Augmentation System) if so equipped, since this improves the error figure
> to as little as 5 feet. In no case may the GPS receiver show an error
> figure in excess of 20 feet. Any modern GPS receiver equipped with WAAS
> will easily meet this requirement, as will most older
> units without WAAS.
>
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 12:37 Tom Schuessler, N5HYP via AMSAT-BB <
> mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>
> For my information, as I am not much of a rover, but  as I may be doing a
> little local grid rove sometime next weekend by request, how far from a
> grid
> boundary can you be for it to count?  I found a 4 corners grid boundary in
> my area, but it is way rural in a deep clump of vegetation with a dirt road
> a couple hundred feet away.  What is the maximum deviation from an X
> .000000; Y.000000 location for it to be legal as a 4 grid location?  I will
> probably do a much easier 2 grid line location, but just wondering.
>
> Thanks much.
>
> Tom Schuessler, N5HYP
> EM12ms
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From bruce at perens.com  Sat Aug 29 19:11:36 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 12:11:36 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Doppler Tracking Discontinuity at TCA - Problem
	Solved
In-Reply-To: <CAM4UQf2Rk+FE8cQe_DnbdZgYS9rR_=Pd3G05Dt_xnLLArG+gGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM4UQf2vih=5dK8v=AqO+SqV5P4GEd5MsX66V2y__qBbWg3BSA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvLYK1LoR1pDuJo=iuHwAqnVtpJOmBf6_L-J3___O0dqA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM4UQf2Rk+FE8cQe_DnbdZgYS9rR_=Pd3G05Dt_xnLLArG+gGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOtnY-a1V0--gbVohuWMieqY9xODwvawyq56uj2y74Ou1Q@mail.gmail.com>

Well I guess it could be used in geosynchronous orbit, although it hasn't
been tested to operate with all of the satellites under it :-) wrong unit
and scale selection are a common user error. Not really your fault.

On Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 11:16 AM Hasan N0AN <hbasri.schiers6 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Bruce,
> I'm sure it should be error trapped when an absolutely crazy value is
> input, but I'm not pointing the finger at any programmer, when I, in fact,
> input the wrong, really wrong, value.
>
> I'm just glad I found it and now doppler tracking is perfectly even on an
> 89 degree overhead pass.
>
> Considering all the things done right in the software, way beyond any
> other program I've seen, I'm not going to complain.
>
> The program auto-schedules, tracks, prioritizes and presents for decoding
> AO-73, EO-88, JO-97, AO-91 and AO-92, with no operator intervention
> whatsoever. Any number of birds can be added or deleted.
>
> I can let it run overnight and come down and see every bird's TLM
> perfectly decoded.
>
> If I chose to, I could have it IQ record every pass and go back and decode
> it again later.
>
> The program is absolutely amazing. The fact that it accepted a ridiculous
> input value from me without warning me, is to my way of thinking, small
> potatoes. :-)
>
> (SDR-Radio Console v 3.x )
>
> 5 EL Yagi > 60' Hardline > Duplexer > ARR GasFET > Funcube Pro+ SDR >
> SDRConsole v3
>
> Rotor control by SDRC > PSTrotator
> 15 deg uptilt yagi (5 EL on 2m, 8 EL on 70cm, interlaced, common feedpoint)
>
> Anyone using an SDR that has not used SDRC for controlling it, for
> satellite work, has no idea how enriching an SDR setup with good software
> can be.
>
> 73, N0AN
> Hasan
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 12:52 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>
>> It's a software bug when the software quietly accepts an impossible
>> parameter.
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 6:17 AM Hasan N0AN via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Over the last week or two, I have been getting a 200 Hz discontinuity
>>> jump
>>> in my uplink frequency at TCA (Time of Closest Approach), also known as
>>> the
>>> zero doppler point. This happened on every bird, every pass. (all mode B,
>>> 70cm up, 2m down)
>>>
>>> AOS was early, LOS was late, and doppler tracking was non-linear and had
>>> the bad jump at TCA.
>>>
>>> Today, thanks to K5GZR and KB7IJ, the problem source was identified and
>>> corrected.
>>>
>>> It was caused by a terrible error in the definition of my Home Altitude.
>>> I
>>> typed in, 350 meters. The program took it 35,000 meters.
>>>
>>> I corrected it and now doppler tracking in SDRC v3.x is perfect.
>>>
>>> If anyone else ever gets a set of symptoms like mine, take a look at your
>>> Home QTH altitude setting. Being off by a factor of 100:1 makes a
>>> difference.
>>>
>>> 73, N0AN
>>>
>>> Hasan
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>

From af5cc2 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 19:59:57 2020
From: af5cc2 at gmail.com (John Geiger)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 14:59:57 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO92 1728Z August 28
Message-ID: <CAHC1P2-_u29f2bvaNuAvTojH2HHORp80VtbM_aZYT9z+Mm7kTQ@mail.gmail.com>

Who was the WB4Z station on yesterday's AO92 pass at 1728Z?  He called me a
couple of times and I finally worked him.  I had it written down as WB4ZEM
but that call is not coming up in QRZ.COM or on the FCC's website so it
must be something else.

73 John AF5CC

From dtabor52 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 21:43:24 2020
From: dtabor52 at gmail.com (Douglas Tabor)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 15:43:24 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 357
Message-ID: <2238A38E-37AA-4E02-9CE2-75DC6043A677@gmail.com>

At long last, a BB digest with News you can Use.

73 and everyone have a great weekend!

Doug, N6UA
DN71qd

Douglas Tabor
dtabor52 at gmail.com




From hbasri.schiers6 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 22:29:21 2020
From: hbasri.schiers6 at gmail.com (Hasan N0AN)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 17:29:21 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Doppler Tracking Discontinuity at TCA - Problem
	Solved
In-Reply-To: <SN6PR11MB2752845230F78DC91F805E33D0530@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAM4UQf2vih=5dK8v=AqO+SqV5P4GEd5MsX66V2y__qBbWg3BSA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvLYK1LoR1pDuJo=iuHwAqnVtpJOmBf6_L-J3___O0dqA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM4UQf2Rk+FE8cQe_DnbdZgYS9rR_=Pd3G05Dt_xnLLArG+gGg@mail.gmail.com>
	<SN6PR11MB2752845230F78DC91F805E33D0530@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAM4UQf3bKBRFj6LbgsEjgVabLG+fm=vj+4wyW+T95bS0pTeHFg@mail.gmail.com>

Gerald,
https://www.sdr-radio.com/download

...and I listed the program by name in my prior message and when I googled
that name I got several listings like the url post immediately above.

Did google not work for you?


You might find this particularly interesting where the options in the
satellite pane of the software are discussed.

https://www.sdr-radio.com/options

It is free, for amateurs, btw.

73, N0AN
Hasan


On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 1:38 PM Gerald Payton <gp_ab5r at outlook.com> wrote:

> Is this program TOP SECRET or can anyone look at it?  I'm new and trying
> to soak in these things.  But just talking about it and not supplying a URL
> does not help.
>
> 73,
> Jerry AB5R
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> on behalf of Hasan N0AN via
> AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 29, 2020 1:15 PM
> *To:* Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com>
> *Cc:* AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [amsat-bb] Doppler Tracking Discontinuity at TCA - Problem
> Solved
>
> Hi Bruce,
> I'm sure it should be error trapped when an absolutely crazy value is
> input, but I'm not pointing the finger at any programmer, when I, in fact,
> input the wrong, really wrong, value.
>
> I'm just glad I found it and now doppler tracking is perfectly even on an
> 89 degree overhead pass.
>
> Considering all the things done right in the software, way beyond any other
> program I've seen, I'm not going to complain.
>
> The program auto-schedules, tracks, prioritizes and presents for decoding
> AO-73, EO-88, JO-97, AO-91 and AO-92, with no operator intervention
> whatsoever. Any number of birds can be added or deleted.
>
> I can let it run overnight and come down and see every bird's TLM perfectly
> decoded.
>
> If I chose to, I could have it IQ record every pass and go back and decode
> it again later.
>
> The program is absolutely amazing. The fact that it accepted a ridiculous
> input value from me without warning me, is to my way of thinking, small
> potatoes. :-)
>
> (SDR-Radio Console v 3.x )
>
> 5 EL Yagi > 60' Hardline > Duplexer > ARR GasFET > Funcube Pro+ SDR >
> SDRConsole v3
>
> Rotor control by SDRC > PSTrotator
> 15 deg uptilt yagi (5 EL on 2m, 8 EL on 70cm, interlaced, common feedpoint)
>
> Anyone using an SDR that has not used SDRC for controlling it, for
> satellite work, has no idea how enriching an SDR setup with good software
> can be.
>
> 73, N0AN
> Hasan
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 12:52 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>
> > It's a software bug when the software quietly accepts an impossible
> > parameter.
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 6:17 AM Hasan N0AN via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Over the last week or two, I have been getting a 200 Hz discontinuity
> jump
> >> in my uplink frequency at TCA (Time of Closest Approach), also known as
> >> the
> >> zero doppler point. This happened on every bird, every pass. (all mode
> B,
> >> 70cm up, 2m down)
> >>
> >> AOS was early, LOS was late, and doppler tracking was non-linear and had
> >> the bad jump at TCA.
> >>
> >> Today, thanks to K5GZR and KB7IJ, the problem source was identified and
> >> corrected.
> >>
> >> It was caused by a terrible error in the definition of my Home
> Altitude. I
> >> typed in, 350 meters. The program took it 35,000 meters.
> >>
> >> I corrected it and now doppler tracking in SDRC v3.x is perfect.
> >>
> >> If anyone else ever gets a set of symptoms like mine, take a look at
> your
> >> Home QTH altitude setting. Being off by a factor of 100:1 makes a
> >> difference.
> >>
> >> 73, N0AN
> >>
> >> Hasan
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> >> AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From karn at ka9q.net  Sat Aug 29 22:31:12 2020
From: karn at ka9q.net (Phil Karn)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 15:31:12 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Doppler Tracking Discontinuity at TCA - Problem
	Solved
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOvLYK1LoR1pDuJo=iuHwAqnVtpJOmBf6_L-J3___O0dqA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM4UQf2vih=5dK8v=AqO+SqV5P4GEd5MsX66V2y__qBbWg3BSA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvLYK1LoR1pDuJo=iuHwAqnVtpJOmBf6_L-J3___O0dqA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8af61284-52bc-64f3-ab51-a19ba328ae50@ka9q.net>

On 8/29/20 10:52, Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> It's a software bug when the software quietly accepts an impossible
> parameter.
>
It's not an impossible value. Balloons can reach 35 km without too much
trouble. I don't like software with arbitrary limits imposed by authors
who lack the imagination as to how people might use it. Ballooners
already have enough problems with arbitrary altitude limits in GPS
receivers.

Phil



From amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net  Sat Aug 29 22:33:33 2020
From: amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net (Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK))
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 22:33:33 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Proximity to grid line boundary
In-Reply-To: <CABX7KxVaXnoN-NrvQt6g-pt7hjbu3gQqJTnbmqiVK3gEOpKx-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003c01d67e22$75b14cf0$6113e6d0$.ref@verizon.net>
	<003c01d67e22$75b14cf0$6113e6d0$@verizon.net>
	<CAAJiE8O2DXQR=QvfuGgLVxkqqy2ZrGfFEtG37nUTsszfqEZQTQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<23EA625E-6F0E-4722-9978-F265ABA4B590@n4dcw.com>
	<004e01d67e28$08da3c80$1a8eb580$@verizon.net>
	<CABX7KxVaXnoN-NrvQt6g-pt7hjbu3gQqJTnbmqiVK3gEOpKx-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN6TEUfeau_rKuoY3yUuy2fHV9ocrknxtRF_oQcvgdd6dnjtCg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Burns!

The WAS rules do not go into detail about operating on state
boundaries, like we see in the VUCC rules about operating from grid
boundaries and intersections. WAS rules seem to be more concerned
about the location of the stations working toward a WAS award:

"Contacts must be made from same location, or from locations no two of
which are more than 50 miles (80 kilometers) apart."

(from http://www.arrl.org/was )

I look for either markers or signs showing the boundaries. Then I set
up either next to those signs, or in between the signs for those
states. Sometimes there are markers on the boundaries, which makes this
a little easier. Then I take pictures of my station, just like I would
to satisfy VUCC requirements to document a station on a grid line or
intersection. This includes my 2015 trip before the AMSAT Symposium in
Dayton, when I operated from the Indiana/Michigan/Ohio tripoint:

https://www.hmdb.org/m.asp?m=62129

I wrote about my operation from this tripoint as part of an article in
the January 2016 AMSAT Journal. The article included a picture of me
standing on the tripoint, in the middle of a very quiet road where the
tripoint marker is located.

73!





Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK




On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 7:09 PM Burns Fisher via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Just out of curiosity, how do the rules for states?  I tried to activate 3
> states from a three-state boundary where there was a marker.  (It did not
> work because of the same problem--trees and grass) but I'm wondering if the
> marker would be sufficient evidence?  Depends who placed it, I suppose?
>
> This was for an informal 'contest' but for something like WAS, I can
> imagine it would be important.
>
> Burns WB1FJ
>
>
>

From karn at ka9q.net  Sat Aug 29 22:57:28 2020
From: karn at ka9q.net (Phil Karn)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 15:57:28 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Doppler Tracking Discontinuity at TCA - Problem
	Solved
In-Reply-To: <CAM4UQf2Rk+FE8cQe_DnbdZgYS9rR_=Pd3G05Dt_xnLLArG+gGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM4UQf2vih=5dK8v=AqO+SqV5P4GEd5MsX66V2y__qBbWg3BSA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvLYK1LoR1pDuJo=iuHwAqnVtpJOmBf6_L-J3___O0dqA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM4UQf2Rk+FE8cQe_DnbdZgYS9rR_=Pd3G05Dt_xnLLArG+gGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <94612a4f-9f84-20e4-1fa2-cdac88fd2644@ka9q.net>

On 8/29/20 11:15, Hasan N0AN via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Anyone using an SDR that has not used SDRC for controlling it, for
> satellite work, has no idea how enriching an SDR setup with good software
> can be.
>
Does it do fine Doppler tuning in software, or does it only retune in steps?

A few years ago I wrote an SDR for the AMSAT UK Funcube Pro+ dongle with
a local oscillator in software that can generate a frequency sweep with
no abrupt phase or frequency jumps. This is actually pretty easy to do,
taking only two complex multiplies per sample instead of one. This is
important when coherently demodulating a digital signal.

My software LO does all tuning within a pass. I tune the hardware LO in
the SDR front end close enough so that it doesn't have to be retuned
during the pass. Because that hardware LO is synthesized, retuning it
causes uncontrolled jumps in phase and frequency. As long as the SDR
front end has enough bandwidth to handle the signal bandwidth plus the
total Doppler, there's no need to retune it. The Funcube dongle samples
at 192 kHz. This is low by comparison to other front ends but it's still
wide enough up to 70cm or so.

Because the Funcube dongle is direct conversion you want to avoid the
noisy region around DC in the IF. That cuts the usable bandwidth to ~96
kHz on either side of DC. Take off another 10 kHz to avoid the aliased
region near +/- 96 kHz and you're down to 86 kHz. 3 kHz SSB + 2 * 10 kHz
= 23 kHz, so there's plenty of room for tracking an entire pass without
ever retuning the front end.

I set the oscillator frequency rate (corresponding to Doppler
acceleration) with a tracking program every second or two, which was
frequent enough to keep a 70cm mode J CW beacon within a 100 Hz filter
for an entire pass. It's so rock stable as to be eerie. But you do need
accurate elements, accurate station position (including altitude!) and
an accurate clock.

I had considered adding another order to the oscillator (ie. set
frequency, frequency rate, and rate squared) but it just wasn't necessary.

My tracking program calculates relative velocity (Doppler frequency)
analytically from the velocity vectors computed by the orbit and earth
models, rather than by finite differencing position as a lot of the
older AMSAT tracking programs did. Do any of the newer programs do it
this way?

I (with n4hy's help) also did the math to calculate relative
acceleration (Doppler sweep rate) analytically. One of the terms was the
actual inertial acceleration of the satellite due to gravity. That meant
modeling the earth's gravity field, which is most of what it takes to do
a full-blown state vector propagator. This seemed like too much work so
I stuck with the NORAD keplerian orbit model.

Phil





From bruce at perens.com  Sat Aug 29 23:02:08 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 16:02:08 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Doppler Tracking Discontinuity at TCA - Problem
	Solved
In-Reply-To: <8af61284-52bc-64f3-ab51-a19ba328ae50@ka9q.net>
References: <CAM4UQf2vih=5dK8v=AqO+SqV5P4GEd5MsX66V2y__qBbWg3BSA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvLYK1LoR1pDuJo=iuHwAqnVtpJOmBf6_L-J3___O0dqA@mail.gmail.com>
	<8af61284-52bc-64f3-ab51-a19ba328ae50@ka9q.net>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOu0_SE-zayTQPiU_ad4uT4SOn5L4Q4iAtjB05aAMoL4yw@mail.gmail.com>

The ITAR limits on GPS altitude and speed were rescinded in 2014, which
doesn't mean every manufacturer has removed them. But they were not
arbitrary, they were government-imposed. It just happened that some
manufacturers implemented them as limits on both being over 60,000 feet and
1000 miles per hour at the same time, others on exceeding either the speed
or the altitude.

It's perfectly fine to have a check box that says "the station will not be
on the surface of the Earth", if your program is actually capable of that
sort of  operation (I doubt this one really is), but in general it is good
practice to protect the user from foolish inputs unless they check that
kind of box.


On Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 3:37 PM Phil Karn via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> On 8/29/20 10:52, Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > It's a software bug when the software quietly accepts an impossible
> > parameter.
> >
> It's not an impossible value. Balloons can reach 35 km without too much
> trouble. I don't like software with arbitrary limits imposed by authors
> who lack the imagination as to how people might use it. Ballooners
> already have enough problems with arbitrary altitude limits in GPS
> receivers.
>
> Phil
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc  Sat Aug 29 23:13:58 2020
From: wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc (Burns Fisher)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 19:13:58 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Proximity to grid line boundary
In-Reply-To: <CAN6TEUfeau_rKuoY3yUuy2fHV9ocrknxtRF_oQcvgdd6dnjtCg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003c01d67e22$75b14cf0$6113e6d0$.ref@verizon.net>
	<003c01d67e22$75b14cf0$6113e6d0$@verizon.net>
	<CAAJiE8O2DXQR=QvfuGgLVxkqqy2ZrGfFEtG37nUTsszfqEZQTQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<23EA625E-6F0E-4722-9978-F265ABA4B590@n4dcw.com>
	<004e01d67e28$08da3c80$1a8eb580$@verizon.net>
	<CABX7KxVaXnoN-NrvQt6g-pt7hjbu3gQqJTnbmqiVK3gEOpKx-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN6TEUfeau_rKuoY3yUuy2fHV9ocrknxtRF_oQcvgdd6dnjtCg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABX7KxVZOcfb2HUJKfPs4bhEsFsyKkge5+3J0PYQsXpzUbDXcg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Patrick.  I was doing the state activation for AMSAT 50th
anniversary and very close to the tripoint for MA, CT, RI.  There was a
marker there, but I never could have reached a satellite :-)

On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 6:33 PM Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <
amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net> wrote:

> Hi Burns!
>
> The WAS rules do not go into detail about operating on state
> boundaries, like we see in the VUCC rules about operating from grid
> boundaries and intersections. WAS rules seem to be more concerned
> about the location of the stations working toward a WAS award:
>
> "Contacts must be made from same location, or from locations no two of
> which are more than 50 miles (80 kilometers) apart."
>
> (from http://www.arrl.org/was )
>
> I look for either markers or signs showing the boundaries. Then I set
> up either next to those signs, or in between the signs for those
> states. Sometimes there are markers on the boundaries, which makes this
> a little easier. Then I take pictures of my station, just like I would
> to satisfy VUCC requirements to document a station on a grid line or
> intersection. This includes my 2015 trip before the AMSAT Symposium in
> Dayton, when I operated from the Indiana/Michigan/Ohio tripoint:
>
> https://www.hmdb.org/m.asp?m=62129
>
> I wrote about my operation from this tripoint as part of an article in
> the January 2016 AMSAT Journal. The article included a picture of me
> standing on the tripoint, in the middle of a very quiet road where the
> tripoint marker is located.
>
> 73!
>
>
>
>
>
> Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 7:09 PM Burns Fisher via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> Just out of curiosity, how do the rules for states?  I tried to activate 3
>> states from a three-state boundary where there was a marker.  (It did not
>> work because of the same problem--trees and grass) but I'm wondering if
>> the
>> marker would be sufficient evidence?  Depends who placed it, I suppose?
>>
>> This was for an informal 'contest' but for something like WAS, I can
>> imagine it would be important.
>>
>> Burns WB1FJ
>>
>>
>>

From k0jm.mark at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 00:00:00 2020
From: k0jm.mark at gmail.com (Mark Johns, K0JM)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 19:00:00 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] ANS-243 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletins
Message-ID: <CADDbS5B2hXhAuaOVZt-zBWfA+bgq1LPmQ9ROpApqZ3fo60zwnw@mail.gmail.com>

AMSAT NEWS SERVICE
ANS-243

The AMSAT News Service bulletins are a free, weekly news and infor-
mation service of AMSAT, The Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation. ANS
publishes news related to Amateur Radio in Space including reports on
the activities of a worldwide group of Amateur Radio operators who
share an active interest in designing, building, launching and commun-
icating through analog and digital Amateur Radio satellites.

The news feed on http://www.amsat.org publishes news of Amateur
Radio in Space as soon as our volunteers can post it.

Please send any amateur satellite news or reports to:
ans-editor at amsat.org

You can sign up for free e-mail delivery of the AMSAT News Service
Bulletins via the ANS List; to join this list see:
http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/ans

In this edition:

* AMSAT Member David Minster, NA2AA, Elected ARRL CEO
* Jeanette Epps, KF5QNU, Joins Starliner Mission To ISS
* ANS Editors Wanted
* CubeSat Challenge Seeks To Inspire, Prepare Students
* Amateur License Fee Proposal From FCC
* AO-92 (FOX-1D) Reverting to Safe Mode
* GRBAlpha Frequency Coordination Completed
* ARISS News
* Upcoming Satellite Operations
* Hamfests, Conventions, Maker Faires, and Other Events
* Satellite Shorts From All Over


SB SAT @ AMSAT $ANS-243.01
ANS-243 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletins

AMSAT News Service Bulletin 243.01
>From AMSAT HQ KENSINGTON, MD.
DATE 2020 August 30
To All RADIO AMATEURS
BID: $ANS-243.01


AMSAT Member David Minster, NA2AA, Elected ARRL CEO

The ARRL Board of Directors has elected David Minster, NA2AA, of Wayne,
New Jersey, as ARRL?s new Chief Executive Officer, starting on Septem-
ber 28. Minster is currently Managing Partner at Talentrian Partners,
a management consulting firm serving the consumer goods and luxury
goods industries.

Minster began his career as a software engineer, moving into management
at Unilever, as a Chief Information Officer and moved on to several
other companies in the course of his career, as CIO, COO, and CEO.

Minster got his Novice license, WB2MAE, in 1977, when he was in his
teens. He progressed from Advanced to Amateur Extra and, after a stint
as NW2D, he settled on the vanity call sign NA2AA in the 1990s as a way
to honor a mentor, N2AA, and the contest station that he used to fre-
quent, K2GL, in Tuxedo Park, New York.

Minster?s ham radio pursuits have ranged far and wide over the years.
His background includes National Traffic System training and participa-
tion in public service events, as well as contesting from home, club
stations, and contest stations in the Caribbean ? particularly on Bon-
aire, where he is a member of PJ4G. Primarily a CW operator, Minster
collects unique and vintage bugs and keys.

Minster earned a bachelor?s degree in computer engineering from The
Ohio State University and has a special interest in satellites, digital
communications, remote operation, and ham radio computing and software.
He has written keyer software for the commercial market, and contest
logging, packet, and satellite telemetry software for personal use.

In addition to being an ARRL member, Minster is a member of AMSAT, the
Frankford Radio Club, the Straight Key Century Club, CWops, and the
North American QRP CW Club.

?I spend every day of my life, one way or another, engaged in amateur
radio. It is more than just a hobby for me; it is my community. It is
where I live; where I have built lifelong friendships, and friendships
that span the globe. Amateur radio allows me to dream and to experi-
ment. I can?t wait to bring my energy and boundless enthusiasm in
service to ARRL.?

ARRL President Rick Roderick, K5UR, said, ?We are excited to welcome
David as our new CEO, and look forward to his progressive leadership.
His experience in management and operations, plus his activities in
amateur radio, will serve our organization and members well.?

Minster will succeed Barry J. Shelley, N1VXY, who was CEO in 2018, and
who has been serving as ARRL?s Interim CEO since January 2020. Shelley
had been ARRL?s Chief Financial Officer since January 1992.

(ANS thanks ARRL for the above information)


+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

         Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, the AMSAT office
    is closed until further notice. For details, please visit
  https://www.amsat.org/amsat-office-closed-until-further-notice/

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

Jeanette Epps, KF5QNU, Joins Starliner Mission To ISS

NASA Astronaut Jeanette Epps, KF5QNU, NASA's Boeing Starliner-1 mis-
sion, the first operational crewed flight of Boeing?s CST-100 Star-
liner spacecraft on a mission to the International Space Station.
Epps will join NASA astronauts Sunita Williams, KD5PLB, and Josh Cas-
sada, KI5CRH, for a six-month expedition planned for a launch in 2021
to the ISS. The spaceflight will be the first for Epps, who earned a
doctorate in aerospace engineering in 2000 from the University of
Maryland, College Park.

[ANS thanks NASA for the above information]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

ANS Editors Wanted

Are you the sort of ham who may not have the skills to put together a
satellite, but who does a pretty good job of putting *WORDS* together?

The AMSAT News Service (ANS) prepares and distributes weekly news bul-
letins about the world of amateursatellites, and ANS is in need of ad-
ditional rotating editors. Editors take turns putting together the
weekly bulletins, one week each month, more or less. They also help one
another out by seeking news items to pass along to the editor of the
week, and proofreading.

Online training and mentoring is provided. Time commitment is usually
4-6 hours per month, once trained and up to speed.

This is a great way for wordsmiths to contribute to AMSAT and to serve
your fellow amateurs. Contact k0jm [at] amsat.org with questions or to
volunteer.

[ANS thanks Mark Johns, K0JM, ANS Senior Editor, for the above inform-
ation]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

     Need new satellite antennas? Purchase Arrows, Alaskan Arrows,
    and M2 LEO-Packs from the AMSAT Store. When you purchase through
           AMSAT, a portion of the proceeds goes towards
                  Keeping Amateur Radio in Space.
           https://amsat.org/product-category/hardware/

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

CubeSat Challenge Seeks To Inspire, Prepare Students

The U.S. Department of Education has launched CTE Mission: CubeSat, a
national challenge to inspire students to build technical skills for
careers in space and beyond. High school students from across the coun-
try are invited to design and build CubeSat prototypes, or satellites
that aid in space research, bringing space missions out of the clouds
and into the classroom.

?This is such an exciting way to rethink education and get students
engaged in hands-on learning in the growing aerospace and technology
fields,? said U.S. Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos. ?I look forward
to seeing the innovative prototypes students develop and hope this
challenge inspires our next generation of American space explorers.?

Investors predict that space will be the next trillion-dollar industry,
and as missions in space continue to expand, so do the career opportun-
ities. This multi-phase challenge offers high school students across
the United States the chance to build CubeSat prototypes while learning
creative, collaborative, and technical skills for 21st century careers.

Schools interested in entering CTE Mission: CubeSat should form a team
and submit a mission proposal by 5:59 p.m. ET, on Oct. 16, 2020 ? no
in-person collaboration or prior experience with CubeSats is required.
The online submission form asks for school information, a team profile,
a project proposal, and anticipated learning outcomes. Curated educa-
tional resources are available to students and teachers online in the
CTE Mission: CubeSat resource hub. To learn more, schools can join a
virtual information session on Sept. 1.

Up to five finalists will be selected to receive prizes and participate
in Phase 2, which runs from January to May 2021. Finalists will have
access to expert mentorship and additional virtual resources as they
build CubeSat prototypes and plan flight events to launch their proto-
types. The Department understands that due to current conditions,
schools will need flexibility to safely collaborate when designing and
building prototypes during the challenge. The Department looks forward
to the creative solutions in the mission proposals it receives as
challenge entries.

Each finalist will receive an equal share of the $25,000 cash prize
pool, as well as satellite development, hardware, and software kits.
Challenge sponsors include Arduino, Blue Origin, Chevron, EnduroSat,
LEGO Education, Magnitude.io, MIT Media Lab, and XinaBox.

?Developing a CubeSat prototype is an opportunity for students to learn
competitive skills and explore a wide range of careers in space ? or
their own communities,? said Assistant Secretary for Career, Technical,
and Adult Education Scott Stump. ?Through CTE Mission: CubeSat, we aim
to bring students new learning opportunities to build valuable techni-
cal skills for in-demand and rewarding careers.?

For details, see https://www.ctemissioncubesat.com/

[ANS thanks the U.S. Department of Education  for the above informa-
tion]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Amateur License Fee Proposal From FCC

The FCC has published a proposal to reinstate a $50 fee for new
licenses, renewal and upgrades to existing licenses, and vanity call
sign requests. Excluded are applications for administrative updates,
such as changes of address, and annual regulatory fees.  The The FCC
proposal is contained in a Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM) in MD
Docket 20-270. The ARRL team in Newington and Washington D.C. are
crafting a response to the NPRM. The ARRL is committed to opposing all
fees for any aspect of the amateur radio service. Deadlines for
comments and reply comments will be determined once the NPRM appears in
the Federal Register. File comments by using the FCC?s Electronic
Comment Filing System (ECFS), posting to MD Docket No. 20-270. This
docket is already open for accepting comments even though deadlines
have not yet been set. For more information see https://bit.ly/3hyNQuB

[ANS thanks Matt Holden, K0BBC, for the above information]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

AO-92 (FOX-1D) Reverting to Safe Mode

AO-92 has been experiencing low battery voltage during many night time
passes over the last several weeks. While the satellite is in eclipse
voltage has been dropping low enough (3.6v IIRC) to cause an automatic
shift to safe mode. It emerges from eclipse toward the end of night
passes over North America and the transponder will then switch on, us-
ually with a minute or two remaining in the pass. As we move to winter
in the northern hemisphere, the end of the eclipse should shift over
the pole and to the beginning of the descending part of the orbit, and
this issue should change for at least the northern hemisphere ops.

[ANS thanks Andrew Glasbrenner, KO4MA, AMSAT VP Operations, and Nate
White, N5LEX, for the above information]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

    Want to fly the colors on your own grid expedition?
            Get your AMSAT car flag and other neat stuff
                    from our Zazzle store!
        25% of the purchase price of each product goes
            towards Keeping Amateur Radio in Space
              https://www.zazzle.com/amsat_gear

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+


GRBAlpha Frequency Coordination Completed

The International Amateur Radio Union (IARU) has approved frequency co-
ordination for GRBAlpha, a 1U CubeSat built by students at the Techni-
cal University of Kosice, Slovakia, with contribution by students in
Hungary and Japan. In addition to a gamma ray sensor, the satellite
will have a digipeater functionality with 4k8 or 9k6 GFSK AX25 down-
links. A downlink on 437.025 MHz and an uplink on 145.905 MHz have been
coordinated. Launch should take place in the third quarter of 2020 from
Baikonur into a 600 kmm Sun-Synchronous Orbit. For more information
see https://om3ksi.sk

[ANS thanks IARU for the above information]

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ARISS NEWS

Amateurs and others around the world may listen in on contacts between
amateurs operating in schools and allowing students to interact with
astronauts and cosmonauts aboard the International Space Station. The
downlink frequency on which to listen is 145.800 MHz worldwide.

Information and Technologies Branch, Department of Education-Queensland
Government, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, telebridge via AB1OC
The contact was successful: Mon 2020-08-24 09:32:57 UTC. The ISS call-
sign was NA1SS, and the astronaut was Chris Cassidy, KF5KDR

The KMO Kolska Wyspa, Ko?o, Poland, telebridge via VK6MJ. Is scheduled
for Wednesday, 2020-09-02 12:58:11 UTC. The 75 degee maximum elevation
pass will be heard across Australia. The ISS callsign is presently
scheduled to be NA1SS, and the scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy,
KF5KDR.

ARISS is very aware of the impact that COVID-19 is having on schools
and the public in general.  As such, we may have last minute cancella-
tions or postponements of school contacts.

[ANS thanks Charlie Sufana, AJ9N, one of the ARISS operation team men-
tors for the above information]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

    AMSAT, along with our ARISS partners, is developing an amateur
    radio package, including two-way communication capability, to
            be carried on-board Gateway in lunar orbit.

   Support AMSAT's projects today at https://www.amsat.org/donate/

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

Upcoming Satellite Operations

Quick Hits:

Ron is heading out for the Kansas QSO Party, catch him on HF or
DM96, 8/27 From 00:00 to 02:00, @AD0DX
DM97,98, EM07,08, 8/29 from 15:00 to 20:00 @AD0DX

RJ is also heading out for the party?
DN80 & DN90, 8/28 FM passes, @WY7AA
DM99/EM09 AO92 8/29 03:55, @WY7AA

EL97, 8/29, @KK4YEL, details and passes to come.

FM15, FM25, FM14, FM04, 8/29 and 8/30 Holiday Style, @N4LAZ.

Bob Keating, N6REK, will be on vacation next week in the Eastern Sierra
and plans to work AO-91, AO-92 and PO-101 from the DM07/08 gridline on
a holiday schedule from Wednesday, Sept. 2 to Saturday, Sept. 5.

Major Roves:

@WA9JBQ is heading out to Idaho DN24,DN25,DN26 DN34, DN16, DN15, DN14
starting August 15th. Then moving into Montana for DN35,DN36, DN37,
DN38 DN49 DN47. He will be out a total of 5-6 weeks Mostly FM some
linear. Will post to twitter details.

[ANS thanks Paul Overnfor, KE0PBR, AMSAT rover page manager, for the
above information]

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Hamfests, Conventions, Maker Faires, and Other Events

AMSAT Ambassadors provide presentations, demonstrate communicating
through amateur satellites, and host information tables at club meet-
ings, hamfests, conventions, maker faires, and other events.

Clint Bradford K6LCS has booked his ?Work the FM Voice Satellites With
Minimal Equipment? presentation for the clubs.

09/02/2020 ? Garden State ARA, New Jersey

09/14/2020 ? North Agusta Belevedere Radio Club

10/27/2020 ? Cherryland ARC / Traverse Bay ARC

TBD ? Antelope Valley (CA) ARC

TBD ? A private presentation for a Boy Scout troop in Danville, Penn.

These will be Zoom presentations. Participants are asked to update
their copies of the Zoom application ? by directly visiting Zoom.us.

[ANS thanks Paul Overnfor, KE0PBR, AMSAT Events page manager, for the
above information]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Satellite Shorts From All Over

+ NASA will broadcast a Space Launch System (SLS) rocket full-scale
  booster test at 2:40 p.m. EDT Wednesday, Sept. 2, on NASA Television
  and the agency?s website, followed by a media teleconference. The
  Flight Support Booster-1 test builds on three full-scale development
  test firings and two qualification test firings NASA and Northrop
  Grumman successfully completed with the five-segment solid rocket
  motor in preparation for the first three Artemis missions.
  (ANS thanks NASA JPL and Joanne Maenpaa, K9JKM, for the above infor-
  mation)

+ NASA JPL provides a web application, "Eyes on the Solar System", to
  track the Mars 2020 mission. Fully interactive, Eyes on the Solar
  System. doesn't just let you track Perseverance in real time as it
  travels to the Red Planet. Dozens of controls on pop-up menus allow
  you to customize not just what you see ? from faraway to right "on
  board." Give the Mars 2020 Perseverance spacecraft a spin at:
  https://go.nasa.gov/32uc3Mo  (ANS thanks NASA JPL and Joanne Maenpaa,
  K9JKM, for the above information)

+ OSIRIS-REx just performed its last dress rehearsal before gathering
  a sample from asteroid Bennu in October. This dress rehearsal maneu-
  ver took the craft down to 40 m and resulted in high resolution
  images of the site. October?s sampling maneuver will use optical nav-
  igation to slowly bring the craft down, with minimal thruster firings
  to avoid contaminating the surface with hydrazine propellant. The
  craft will briefly touch down, dissipating momentum in the spring-
  loaded Touch-And-Go Sample Acquisition Mechanism (TAGSAM) arm, and
  fire a burst of nitrogen to blow particles into its sample collection
  head. These samples will eventually make it back to Earth in fall of
  2023. (ANS thanks The Orbital Index for the above information)

+ Masten Space Systems announced on August 26 that it has selected
  SpaceX to launch Masten Mission One (MM1). As part of MM1, Masten?s
  lunar lander will deliver nine NASA-sponsored science and technology
  demonstration experiments and several commercial payloads to the
  lunar south pole. Masten?s first mission to the Moon, MM1 is a col-
  laboration with NASA?s Commercial Lunar Payload Services (CLPS) Pro-
  ject Office. The Masten XL-1 lunar lander is scheduled to touch down
  on the lunar south pole in 2022, carrying a suite of NASA-sponsored
  scientific instruments and various payloads from commercial space
  customers. (ANS thanks spaceref.com for the above information)

+ In early August a cable snapped at the Arecibo Observatory in Puerto
  Rico, causing substantial damage to one of the largest single dish
  radio telescopes in the world. In an episode of the National Public
  Radio podcast, Short Wave," planetary scientist Edgard Rivera-Valen-
  t?n explains what's at stake until the damage can be repaired, and
  he unique role the telescope plays in both scientific research and
  popular culture. Listen to the 12-minute program at:
  https://one.npr.org/?sharedMediaId=906366009:906835109
  (ANS thanks npr.org for the above information)

+ Malcolm "Mal" Preston, NP2L, an AMSAT life member and longtime sup-
  porter, died last month at the age of 85. Mal retired in 1991 and
  moved to St. John, U.S. Virgin Islands, where he practiced accounting
  through 1997. An active volunteer, Mal served on the church vestry,
  was treasurer of St. John?s yacht and hiking clubs. He assumed many
  leadership roles in ham clubs and won many international champion-
  ships as a member of the Contesting Consortium PJ2T. He was the
  Assistant Section Manager for the American Relay League in the USVI.
  (ANS thanks John Shew, N4QQ, and Joanne Maenpaa, K9JKM, for the above
  information)

+ NASA's associate administrator for Human Exploration and Operations,
  Kathy Lueders, has named Robyn Gatens as acting director of the In-
  ternational Space Station at NASA Headquarters. The appointment was
  effective Aug. 25. Sam Scimemi, the former director, has assumed new
  responsibilities as a special assistant for the agency's Human
  Exploration and Operations Mission Directorate. In this role, Gatens
  will lead strategy, policy, integration, and stakeholder engagement
  for the space station program at the agency level, working closely
  with International Space Station Program Manager Joel Montalbano at
  NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston. Gatens will provide technical
  advice for the program, as well as overseeing program execution and
  managing risks. Gatens has 35 years of experience at NASA in both the
  space station program and in development and management of the life
  support systems for human spaceflight missions.



---------------------------------------------------------------------

/EX

In addition to regular membership, AMSAT offers membership in the
President's Club. Members of the President's Club, as sustaining
donors to AMSAT Project Funds, will be eligible to receive addi-
tional benefits. Application forms are available from the AMSAT
Office.

Primary and secondary school students are eligible for membership
at one-half the standard yearly rate. Post-secondary school students
enrolled in at least half time status shall be eligible for the stu-
dent rate for a maximum of 6 post-secondary years in this status.
Contact Martha at the AMSAT Office for additional student membership
information.

73 and Remember to help keep amateur radio in space,
This week's ANS Editor, Mark D. Johns, K0JM

k0jm at amsat dot org

From corlissbs at aol.com  Sun Aug 30 00:05:02 2020
From: corlissbs at aol.com (Brad Smith)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2020 00:05:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Grids
References: <442414473.311906.1598745902773.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <442414473.311906.1598745902773@mail.yahoo.com>

< but I'm wondering if the?marker would be sufficient evidence?? Depends who placed it, I suppose?>?I live near the intersection of 4 grids. It is in a subdivision. There is a bronze marker placed near the curb, explaining the meaning of the grid lines and longitude and latitude. BUT, the actual intersection is across the street, in someone's front yard, not at the curb, where the plaque is placed. You have to rely on your GPS, or one of several grid mapping programs that you can enlarge and do a print screen. Both will work. I use a hand held GPS for this and also for geocaching. Brad KC9UQR


From karn at ka9q.net  Sun Aug 30 00:08:37 2020
From: karn at ka9q.net (Phil Karn)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 17:08:37 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Doppler Tracking Discontinuity at TCA - Problem
	Solved
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOu0_SE-zayTQPiU_ad4uT4SOn5L4Q4iAtjB05aAMoL4yw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM4UQf2vih=5dK8v=AqO+SqV5P4GEd5MsX66V2y__qBbWg3BSA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvLYK1LoR1pDuJo=iuHwAqnVtpJOmBf6_L-J3___O0dqA@mail.gmail.com>
	<8af61284-52bc-64f3-ab51-a19ba328ae50@ka9q.net>
	<CAK2MWOu0_SE-zayTQPiU_ad4uT4SOn5L4Q4iAtjB05aAMoL4yw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <97D7FF68-33D2-4F73-AA77-716583F79CB0@ka9q.net>

I know about the Itar limits, but the fact that some manufacturers implemented the limits as altitude AND velocity while others did it as altitude OR velocity was certainly arbitrary.

I didn?t know that these limits had been removed entirely, that?s good news. I?d noticed that the kiwi sdr has an open GPS receiver in it, which got me thinking about extracting and using it independently. 

> On Aug 29, 2020, at 16:02, Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
> 
> The ITAR limits on GPS altitude and speed were rescinded in 2014, which doesn't mean every manufacturer has removed them. But they were not arbitrary, they were government-imposed.


From bruce at perens.com  Sun Aug 30 01:19:23 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 18:19:23 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] GPS limits
In-Reply-To: <97D7FF68-33D2-4F73-AA77-716583F79CB0@ka9q.net>
References: <CAM4UQf2vih=5dK8v=AqO+SqV5P4GEd5MsX66V2y__qBbWg3BSA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvLYK1LoR1pDuJo=iuHwAqnVtpJOmBf6_L-J3___O0dqA@mail.gmail.com>
	<8af61284-52bc-64f3-ab51-a19ba328ae50@ka9q.net>
	<CAK2MWOu0_SE-zayTQPiU_ad4uT4SOn5L4Q4iAtjB05aAMoL4yw@mail.gmail.com>
	<97D7FF68-33D2-4F73-AA77-716583F79CB0@ka9q.net>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOtHxpadASegtLmede40UmMoGsckgSh5vKV7nGCNVUCdDA@mail.gmail.com>

I believe the Missile Technology Control Regime, a 35 nation informal
agreement, not a treaty, was updated in 2016 to limit civilian GPS system
speed two 600 meters per second, and to exclude from consumer equipment
those GPS designed for missiles and autonomous aircraft carrying more than
500 kg payload.

How or whether each country implements this is entirely up to them.

I have a feeling there might still be a regulation in the EAR. But I
haven't found it yet.

On Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 5:08 PM Phil Karn <karn at ka9q.net> wrote:

> I know about the Itar limits, but the fact that some manufacturers
> implemented the limits as altitude AND velocity while others did it as
> altitude OR velocity was certainly arbitrary.
>
> I didn?t know that these limits had been removed entirely, that?s good
> news. I?d noticed that the kiwi sdr has an open GPS receiver in it, which
> got me thinking about extracting and using it independently.
>
> > On Aug 29, 2020, at 16:02, Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
> >
> > The ITAR limits on GPS altitude and speed were rescinded in 2014, which
> doesn't mean every manufacturer has removed them. But they were not
> arbitrary, they were government-imposed.
>
>

From w7lrd at comcast.net  Sun Aug 30 07:20:06 2020
From: w7lrd at comcast.net (73 Bob W7LRD)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2020 00:20:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [amsat-bb] satpc32 install
Message-ID: <1750615376.61443.1598772006902@connect.xfinity.com>

where do I find my id to install satpc32 on a different computer?
73 Bob W7LRD

From scottk5ta at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 23:51:36 2020
From: scottk5ta at gmail.com (Scott Davis)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 17:51:36 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO92 1728Z August 28
Message-ID: <83599FC8-5134-4534-9A3C-7BD66CC8EC49@gmail.com>

There?s an active station WB4Z, who is in EM70, so it?s very likely you might have heard ?WB4Z?EM??

-Scott K5TA

From wandtosborne at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 03:39:45 2020
From: wandtosborne at gmail.com (Wendy and Terry Osborne)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 15:39:45 +1200
Subject: [amsat-bb] Rocket Lab Launch Successful
Message-ID: <a6d401c2-d3a8-4a2e-ec56-b35ebc111656@gmail.com>

This afternoon's launch (number 14) was successful.
See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPIhI5mRDRI&feature=youtu.be

73,
Terry Osborne ZL2BAC

From marklhammond at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 15:45:42 2020
From: marklhammond at gmail.com (Mark L. Hammond)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 11:45:42 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] satpc32 install
In-Reply-To: <1750615376.61443.1598772006902@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <1750615376.61443.1598772006902@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <CAPRXzyo4VuHFtEeQpxz1gCf_wL4ymr66uk1Zxvkm8_ibRLASuQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Bob, if you use the included "backup" program to back up your SatPC32
settings, you copy that folder to the other computer and then do a restore
from that folder.  It'll include your registration info!

Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
AMSAT Director and Command Station



On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 3:21 AM 73 Bob W7LRD via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> where do I find my id to install satpc32 on a different computer?
> 73 Bob W7LRD
> _______________________________________________
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> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
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> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
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