[amsat-bb] Another call for forensic accounting and an inventory

Tue Aug 11 16:25:49 UTC 2020

Greg,

Many organizations and companies operate with open books. This would help
to achieve a greater trust level. Forensic accounting is something that can
be called for if the books, once disclosed, show a problem. But simply
opening them is better, because it allows anyone to perform their own
audit, with professional staff if necessary. Just take pictures of the
ledger, page by page (assuming Martha has done it the same way since 1970)
or publish a CSV file. Black out names for privacy if necessary.

The 990 and annual audits show the larger picture, to an extent, but they
only list column items like "legal and accounting expenses" - yes, those
two were grouped together, potentially obscuring an issue. I think the
question here goes to individual expenditures, and whether there are any
board or committee minutes corresponding to them.

I will also recommend that ORI publish its books. It's their decision, not
mine.

    Thanks

    Bruce

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 2:59 AM Greg via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> First of all, if money was spent unwisely, that is still not a reason for
> a forensic audit. If it was against bylaws and they have the proof, your
> issue isn’t getting a forensic accountant, its determining what your
> actions should be under those bylaws. Unless the money was “coded” to an
> area that makes the transaction invisible, then that may be different. For
> example, legal fees were capitalized into satellite costs.  Even still,
> when the auditor released the audited financial statements, during his
> field work, his test are not to detect fraud but proper classification of
> such items.  He can use various tests from looking at transactions that
> might have an attorneys name shown as a satellite cost etc using various
> sampling techniques.  His audit attests that the statements are a true
> financial accounting picture of the organization.  However financial
> audits, those that attest financial statements, are not conducted to catch
> fraud though they do many times.
>
> So, forensic accounting cost is a waste of money unless you suspect
> fraud.  If the two directors suspect fraud, show the evidence and that will
> take the cloud of suspicion away.  Then do a forensic fraud to account for
> losses.  Other wise, burn the money.
>
> ex-CPA
> Greg
> N3MVF
>
>
>
> On Aug 11, 2020, at 12:41 AM, Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
> I am aware of what the costs would be but wouldn’t it be better to bite
> the bullet and remove the cloud from AMSAT? I feel that by not doing so it
> could be more costly by losing more member and donor dollars.
>
> Based on reports from two BoDs, tens of thousands of dollars were spent
> unwisely and against bylaws. It’s time to spend some money wisely in an
> open and transparent fashion.
>
> IMHO, it would be best to go ahead and make the cloud go away. I’ve asked
> those running against me to speak-up and join me in this call but I have
> heard nothing from them. I have, however, received many emails from regular
> members that agree with me so I’m not the only one that wants this to
> happen.
>
> For this to happen, it would require the Board to meet (which they don’t
> currently do on a regular basis) and for a motion to be made and passed.
> There’s definitely smoke that many members see and smoke only comes from
> fires. Let’s put out this fire, once and for all, and move forward. By not
> putting out the fire the FUD will remain and that will cost AMSAT money in
> the form of lost members and donations.
>
> Jeff WE4B
> http://we4bravo.com
>
> > On Aug 10, 2020, at 10:26 PM, Greg via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > As an ex-CPA I ask, has anyone realized what the cost of such an audit
> would be?  I can tell you that unless you have a reasonable suspicion and
> probability, not possibility, of fraudulent activities, you will just burn
> many thousands that could be used on satellites.
> >
> > Greg
> > N3MVF
> >
> > On Aug 10, 2020, at 9:25 PM, Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > That is sort of what has happened to the NRA!
> >
> > I doubt we have any "grifters" in AMSAT. To be safe, look out for any
> Jaguar owners as Jeremy Clarkson of Top Gear points out.
> >
> > That said the P&L statement should be reviewed.
> >
> > Locally, our ex mayor decided to buy a failing golf course with our
> stormwater funds to save it from development. An action clearly benefiting
> only one neighborhood. Depending on who you talk to on a given day, it is
> either making or losing money. This is a case where the P&L needs to be
> made public.
> >
> > "Yes. I see the “plot” clearly now. A few grifters decided the best way
> to get “rich" was to join a ham radio organization. They would lay low for
> 10-30 years so as not to arouse suspicion. They would volunteer their time
> and efforts for decades to provide an smokescreen so other members wouldn’t
> suspect that they would one day steal money and inventory from the coffers
> and then refuse to provide a detailed accounting when requested…
> >
> >
> > Jeff, KE9V"
> >
> > --
> > Joe Leikhim
> >
> >
> > Leikhim and Associates
> >
> > Communications Consultants
> >
> > Oviedo, Florida
> >
> > JLeikhim at Leikhim.com
> >
> > 407-982-0446
> >
> > WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>