[amsat-bb] Transparency and Double Standards

Wed Aug 19 22:14:30 UTC 2020

If we can't show you this application, I think I could make one myself
without making use of attorneys, without even involving ORI, and it would
be possible to show that one. I have as much right to ask for a commodity
jurisdiction ruling as ORI. The really important information in the
application originated with me, not ORI or it's attorneys, and is part of
an ITAR strategy that I started work on long before ORI's formation. At
present, it is publicly displayed on the ORI web site, but I intend to put
it in a compliance manual I am working on.

That might be a good idea if I am to convince colleges to run this
strategy. So, I might do it. However, I am not convinced that I need to
spend my time on convincing anyone at AMSAT. At some point it becomes less
effort to simply let AMSAT die and carry on the work elsewhere. That
decision would come on about September 17. And yes, I think AMSAT would
eventually die if it continued to not have a viable ITAR strategy and every
other organization did.

There is also the fact that, with respect for the polite ones, the people
who are arguing on the mailing list are not in a position to set ITAR
policy at AMSAT, and I would hope that by now everyone has submitted their
ballot. So, this discussion might be moot at this point.

    Thanks

    Bruce

On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 1:42 PM Joseph Armbruster <
josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:

> Bruce,
>
>
> Yet another well played detraction from my original point... That the
> forms submitted to the DDTC tell a story and contain all of the details of
> the claim... details, which none of us on the -bb have been able to read
> for ourselves, because they have NOT been shared publicly.
>
>
> AMSAT is having a difficult time navigating right now, because of your
> groups smoke and mirrors.  It's the only negative traffic on the -bb.  I do
> feel bad for AMSAT, but only because of that.  I think the leadership has
> been doing a reasonably good job, but they don't take the time to reach out
> to the public and... brag enough about their accomplishments.  Honestly, I
> think PR is their only failure.  That's the only reason you and your group
> can say the things you do on here, there are a lot of mis-informed
> members.  Speaking of launching satellites... How many satellites have you
> been involved with building and launching in the last, say, 15 years,
> through any organization, while AMSAT was hard at work?
>
>
> I'm sticking with the people that have produced results and I maintain
> that a vote for Hammond, Paige and Stoetzer will continue to push AMSAT in
> the best direction.  Whether or not a lot of people on the -bb can see it
> or not, is one thing.  I sure hope they do.  Talk is cheap, it's easy for
> someone to come on here and bash other peoples hard work in a couple lines
> in an email, and sound honorable and noble and hide behind false-claims.
> That... is unfortunate.  All i'm trying to do on this thread is ask for the
> documentation that was submitted to the DDTC... that's not an abnormal or
> extraordinary request, give the open source nature of it all.  Michelle did
> say she would try to release the INPUT form... i'll be standing by.
>
>
> Joseph Armbruster
>
> KJ4JIO
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 3:46 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> Sorry you feel that way. The unfortunate fact is that AMSAT has already
>> been judged by its outside funding organizations, and is going to have a
>> hard time surmounting that without a major change in leadership. It isn't
>> going to matter much for you to stick with leadership who can't can't
>> build
>> and launch enough satellites. That is what it is coming to. Fixing that is
>> the only agenda.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 11:18 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>> > My final word. At least some people on your agendized team, for the take
>> > over of AMSAT, I hold or have held in high respect. That is, at least
>> until
>> > they allowed themselves to be associated with this travesty of ego. I
>> now
>> > question their judgement And motivation. That’s on you. TEAM politics
>> isn’t
>> > what this is about. Character, track record, and how I have seen
>> candidates
>> > treat Me and others is how I will vote.
>> >
>> > I am highly disappointed that this has turned into a we / they campaign.
>> > The organization is better than that. Regardless of the outcome of this
>> > election, I judge AMSAT and it reputation will be damaged moving
>> forward.
>> >
>> > EMike, AA8EM
>> >
>> > EMike McCardel, AA8EM
>> > Past Senior Editor AMSAT News Service
>> > Past AMSAT-NA VP Educational Relations
>> > Former ARRL, Ohio Section, Affiliated Club Coordinator
>> >
>> >
>> > > On Aug 19, 2020, at 1:11 PM, Michelle Thompson <
>> > mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > 
>> > > You might have missed the part where all of the information in this
>> > particular CJ request is already publicly available. It's already
>> > transparent.
>> > >
>> > > The submitted form itself is not usually published. That's the only
>> > restriction we are talking about.
>> > >
>> > > This is fundamentally different from refusing to allow Directors
>> access
>> > to corporate records unless they sign NDAs, then showing up without the
>> > actual NDAs, then continuing to deny access to records and
>> communications
>> > after everyone signed a blank form that purported to be a signature form
>> > for these alleged NDAs. Some of which have yet to be produced and you
>> as a
>> > member are not allowed to know about.
>> > >
>> > > Your attack is off base and inaccurate. I'm sorry you feel the way you
>> > do. This work means that things can get dramatically better for the
>> > organization in highly visible and measurable ways.
>> > >
>> > > -Michelle W5NYV
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 9:33 AM E.Mike McCardel via AMSAT-BB <
>> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> > >> Just an observation. Among all of this talk, during the past BOoD
>> > election
>> > >> cycle, about Transparency, I find it amazing that the excuse of the
>> > Lawyers
>> > >> or others don't think it wise to disclose information can even be an
>> > >> argument.
>> > >>
>> > >> Michelle Wrote:
>> > >> "Unless, of course, this  Information contained in CJ requests is not
>> > >> usually made public. The law firm would not file it unless it was
>> > presented
>> > >> to the State Department as private and confidential. This advice was
>> > >> because virtually all requests are for proprietary programs and
>> > products.
>> > >> Sticking out in this regard, by doing something they advised strongly
>> > >> against, would not work to our
>> > >> advantage in any way. I want to win for open source, not die on the
>> > wrong
>> > >> hill.  as an admission that NDA's are indeed important and not just
>> > >> convenient."
>> > >>
>> > >> Is this not the very essence of Non-Disclosure Agreements? Without
>> the
>> > >> transparency which seems to be lacking here this comes across as a
>> > simple
>> > >> political stunt. Enough already.
>> > >>
>> > >> I am not voting for any TEAM, I'm putting my trust in individuals
>> whom I
>> > >> respect and trust and have no agenda other than serving AMSAT to keep
>> > >> amateur radio in space.
>> > >>
>> > >> EMike, AA8EM
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> E. Michael McCardel, AA8EM, former KC8YLD
>> > >> Former Senior Editor for AMSAT News Service,
>> > >> Past VP Educational Relations for AMSAT-NA
>> > >> Former Ohio Section Affiliated Club Coordinator
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>> available
>> > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> > Opinions expressed
>> > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> > of AMSAT-NA.
>> > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> > program!
>> > >> Subscription settings:
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>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions
>> > expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> > AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>

-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)