From kk5do at arrl.net  Wed Jul  1 01:54:15 2020
From: kk5do at arrl.net (Bruce)
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2020 20:54:15 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] All operations back to normal
References: <ddda9914-93ec-7f36-28f3-57fb227dbea0.ref@arrl.net>
Message-ID: <ddda9914-93ec-7f36-28f3-57fb227dbea0@arrl.net>

I removed the crashed drive, installed the cloned drive from April and 
everything booted. Reinstalled the crashed drive and was able to look at 
all the files, just not boot from it. Moved all my files and databases 
over and everything is back to normal. Wasted a couple hours but so much 
better than wasting days.

Copied all the files for my email client and everything is as it was. 
Nothing lost.

73...bruce

-- 

Bruce Paige, KK5DO
                      
AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
AMSAT Board Member 2016-2020
   
ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
           
Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT*
Also live streaming MP3 at http://www.amsatnet.com
Podcast at http://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes
               
Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News
http://www.arrl.org

AMSAT on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/amsat


From w5rkn at w5rkn.com  Wed Jul  1 14:53:59 2020
From: w5rkn at w5rkn.com (Ronald Parsons)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2020 09:53:59 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] VUCC Awards-Endorsements for July 2020
Message-ID: <CAJst_RR9dYo+QRFJT=ij3miOwjnYJOd2OAO7BdnE1T=p_PvdXA@mail.gmail.com>

Here are the endorsements and new VUCC Satellite Awards issued by the
ARRL for the period June 1, 2020 through July 1, 2020.
Congratulations to all those who made the list this month!

CALL     June    July

N0JE     637     652
WD9EWK (DM43)     600     612
NS3L     551     575
KI7UNJ   510     527
AD0HJ    425     450
KE8FZT   400     428
AA4QE    305     408
K5IX     375     402
ND0C     346     377
KC9UQR   275     301
WA9JBQ   275     300
N4YHC    250     270
W4DTA    261     263
KA9P     212     259
KS1G     170     233
KE0WPA   200     229
VU2LBW   114     200
N3CAL    100     160
K7TEJ    102     126
N7ZO     New     116
AC9O     New     108
DJ3GZ    New     108
WD9EWK (DM45)  100     106
K3HPA    New     102
WA9WUD   New     102
KI5HHK   New     101
N8URE    New     101
KD9NGV   New     100
KP4RV    New     100
W8LR     New     100


If you find errors or omissions. please contact me off-list at
<mycall>@<mycall>.com and I'll revise the announcement.
This list was developed by comparing the ARRL .pdf listings
for the two months. It's a visual comparison so omissions
are possible. Apologies if your call was not mentioned.
Thanks to all those who are roving to grids that are rarely
on the birds. They are doing most of the work!

Ron W5RKN

From bruninga at usna.edu  Fri Jul  3 00:40:28 2020
From: bruninga at usna.edu (Robert Bruninga)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2020 20:40:28 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Fwd: [CubeSat] Naval Academy Job Posting
In-Reply-To: <0d7c01d6506f$55275000$ff75f000$@usna.edu>
References: <0d7c01d6506f$55275000$ff75f000$@usna.edu>
Message-ID: <CALdCfNK5gxPoUCKodatQ-EEqKo+u+jHsMnq7_B+e8YueciWAFA@mail.gmail.com>

Anybody want my Cubesat / Engineers job at the Academy?
Bob, WB4APR

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <kang at usna.edu>
Subject: [CubeSat] Naval Academy Job Posting

The U.S. Naval Academy?s Small Satellite Lab is looking for a General
Engineer in GS-13 pay grade. More details can be found at:



https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/572230600
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.usajobs.gov_GetJob_ViewDetails_572230600&d=DwMFaQ&c=jGUuvAdBXp_VqQ6t0yah2g&r=KuUqbDNjk_wvXHhurGqCEw&m=aqTIYPU1UYbKU_kIJoBex7_YcliSqduMj-M93MOQh5I&s=4Nt6SWUsZRKbmXE1E1jXtSCs_GxJvysJUU-e68UPMVw&e=>



Specialized experience must demonstrate the following:

   1. Plan, design, monitor, and/or evaluate operations dealing with a
   Satellite Ground Station;
   2. Perform and/or lead maintenance or installation efforts involving
   modifications to the Satellite Ground Station, the Global Positioning
   Satellite receiver, and/or other satellite dish and receivers for an
   installation, including the design and/or repair of component level
   electronics;
   3. Solve engineering problems involving academic support including
   applying new technologies to problems not resolvable through conventional
   methods;
   4. Investigate and/or identify additional areas of potential application
   of satellite technology on the academic curriculum to optimize the use of
   satellite technology; and
   5. Prepare estimates of costs, time and labor for proposed station
   improvements.

_______________________________________________
CubeSat mailing list

From wandtosborne at gmail.com  Fri Jul  3 04:02:53 2020
From: wandtosborne at gmail.com (Wendy and Terry Osborne)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 16:02:53 +1200
Subject: [amsat-bb] Rocket Lab launch delayed due to bad weather
Message-ID: <9f5050a9-df19-cc0e-aadd-3b76d2cf1972@gmail.com>

The weather at Mahia is not looking good for the next few days.
I did think they might have got a short slot tomorrow but not so.
Launch window starts 21:13 on 5th July UTC.
See: https://twitter.com/RocketLab/status/1278791379028570117

73,
Terry Osborne ZL2BAC

From johnbrier at gmail.com  Fri Jul  3 08:02:01 2020
From: johnbrier at gmail.com (John Brier)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 04:02:01 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] 12th Annual 13 Colonies Special Event
In-Reply-To: <050801d64e20$ecfcd180$c6f67480$@att.net>
References: <CACZz0S2cSvj3hFdHCbRjZOamLOsmhUkxMv6RiSEztOUYNeY-2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<050801d64e20$ecfcd180$c6f67480$@att.net>
Message-ID: <CALn0fKMQsLowuNnP2yH25-Nhe0TTeqnrME-EyrmuFfWKRuCqzw@mail.gmail.com>

I will be operating as K2J for North Carolina.

I will be roving around grids FM14, FM04, FM15, FM13, FM03. See my
Twitter account for updates/details:

https://twitter.com/SpaceComms1

73, John Brier KG4AKV

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 10:26 AM Jeff via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Cal and Steve. I won't be participating this year as a representative for
> NJ and DE(and even PA in the past to try to keep it going) as I'm still at
> my winter home in Florida. Over the last couple of years I wasn't successful
> in getting  operators from ALL 13 colonies signed up. So to me it was a no
> show. With all the new 9700 linear operators , and large growing group of FM
> birders I would think this year that all 13 colonies might possibly  be on
> the sats for the 13 colonies event?  Let us all know....
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Stephan Greene via
> AMSAT-BB
> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 21:00
> To: Amsat-bb <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] 12th Annual 13 Colonies Special Event
>
> Speaking of 13 Colonies, I'll be representing Virginia as "K2B" from FM18,
> and possibly FM19 or FM08 on 7/3 and 7/4 (TBD).  I plan to prioritize the
> linear satellites but will give FM a try if the pass is not too crazy.  I
> expect to be on late afternoon/evenings on the work days and more frequently
> on July 3 and 4.  (July 5 looks to have a lot of family activity, so
> "staycation mode").  I will try to announce plans on Twitter (hashtags
> #13Colonies #amsat #K2B).  Likely QRG will be 5kHz ABOVE passband center
> (+/- QRM), computer-controlled.  On AO-7, around 145.438-.440 unless there
> is a rover operating (I'll move up).
>
> More info on the event at http://13colonies.us (note new URL from prior
> years).  This will be my first year representing 13 Colonies instead of
> chasing the stations on HF.
>
> All QSL (they have a  very nice design for 2020) is through each state's QSL
> manager (link from 13 Colonies or each call's qrz.com page).  If you need my
> grid or Virginia on LOTW, please tell me, and I'll switch to my own call so
> we can log it.  If you are in one of the 13 Colonies states, it's not too
> late to contact your state coordinator and join the fun!
>
> 73 Steve KS1G FM18
>
> --------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Cal Spreitzer <n3cal at md.metrocast.net>
> To: <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2020 10:19:12 -0400
> Subject: [amsat-bb] 12th Annual 13 Colonies Special Event The 12th Annual 13
> Colonies Special Event  (Independence Week Celebration) starts Wednesday,
> July 1, 2020 -1300 UTC and runs through Wednesday, July 8, 2020 (0400 UTC)
>
> This will be my second year  representing Maryland as "K2F" from FM18.  I
> will be  working most FM and Linear birds throughout the week.   If you need
> Maryland  feel free to drop me a line for a particular schedule or just tune
> in.
>
> 73,
> Cal/N3CAL FM18
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From e.krome at comcast.net  Fri Jul  3 16:43:13 2020
From: e.krome at comcast.net (Ed Krome)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 12:43:13 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] LVB Tracker firmware
Message-ID: <01D612EC-293F-4771-9E67-F728E1B8E1BE@comcast.net>

Hi all
I have 2 G6LVB Trackers. One has firmware v. 0.7 and the other has v. 0.906. I would like to upgrade the older unit but cannot find the required files. Howard?s site has a link that fails and there is no link on AMSAT-UK.  Can someone please point me to the latest?
Thanks and 73,

Ed Krome K9EK

Sent from my iPhone

From KW4WZ at amsat.org  Fri Jul  3 17:09:35 2020
From: KW4WZ at amsat.org (KW4WZ at amsat.org)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 13:09:35 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] LVB Tracker firmware
In-Reply-To: <01D612EC-293F-4771-9E67-F728E1B8E1BE@comcast.net>
References: <01D612EC-293F-4771-9E67-F728E1B8E1BE@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <77f343b2-5241-e217-454c-868a65ae8bba@spaceflightsoftware.com>

I am able to download and unpack the 
http://www.g6lvb.com/Articles/LVBTracker/ zip files.  Release 1 through 
10 are there.
     73,
     Will KW4WZ

On 7/3/20 12:43 PM, Ed Krome via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Hi all
> I have 2 G6LVB Trackers. One has firmware v. 0.7 and the other has v. 0.906. I would like to upgrade the older unit but cannot find the required files. Howard?s site has a link that fails and there is no link on AMSAT-UK.  Can someone please point me to the latest?
> Thanks and 73,
> 
> Ed Krome K9EK
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 

-- 
Will Marchant, KW4WZ
will at spaceflightsoftware.com
http://www.spaceflightsoftware.com/will/

From rjlawn at gmail.com  Fri Jul  3 17:46:42 2020
From: rjlawn at gmail.com (Richard Lawn)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 13:46:42 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ssb2000 preamp power
Message-ID: <CADQmrTHSiK_3skuMx+fiTSzit0y5w4sn0AM2BkSSzxkbOONW1Q@mail.gmail.com>

I have an older orange case SSB2000 model preamp. I used to use it for EME
but replaced it and now want to use it in another installation for
satellites. I do not however want to power it separately and want to send
power down coax with ft847. This does not seem to work and I?m wondering if
I need to make some sort of internal change to the preamp. The manual
suggests I can power it through the coax. Any thoughts?

Rick, W2JAZ
-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile

From k0jm.mark at gmail.com  Fri Jul  3 17:52:23 2020
From: k0jm.mark at gmail.com (Mark Johns, K0JM)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 12:52:23 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ssb2000 preamp power
In-Reply-To: <CADQmrTHSiK_3skuMx+fiTSzit0y5w4sn0AM2BkSSzxkbOONW1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADQmrTHSiK_3skuMx+fiTSzit0y5w4sn0AM2BkSSzxkbOONW1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADDbS5D88dLJ3mEwOCtEZeRTW2vn3arNDB04SSynqQwqagiw6w@mail.gmail.com>

Have you verified that the 847 is actually sending the 12v up the coax? If
so, then I'd look for an open RF choke in the pre-amp.
--
Mark D. Johns, K?JM
AMSAT Ambassador & News Service Editor
Brooklyn Park, MN USA   EN35hd
-----------------------------------------------
"Heaven goes by favor; if it went by merit,
   you would stay out and your dog would go in."
    ---Mark Twain


On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 12:47 PM Richard Lawn via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I have an older orange case SSB2000 model preamp. I used to use it for EME
> but replaced it and now want to use it in another installation for
> satellites. I do not however want to power it separately and want to send
> power down coax with ft847. This does not seem to work and I?m wondering if
> I need to make some sort of internal change to the preamp. The manual
> suggests I can power it through the coax. Any thoughts?
>
> Rick, W2JAZ
> --
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From n1jez at burlingtontelecom.net  Fri Jul  3 18:24:44 2020
From: n1jez at burlingtontelecom.net (Mike Seguin)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 14:24:44 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ssb2000 preamp power
In-Reply-To: <CADDbS5D88dLJ3mEwOCtEZeRTW2vn3arNDB04SSynqQwqagiw6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADQmrTHSiK_3skuMx+fiTSzit0y5w4sn0AM2BkSSzxkbOONW1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADDbS5D88dLJ3mEwOCtEZeRTW2vn3arNDB04SSynqQwqagiw6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fe43c266-d315-87aa-403f-9f1988203188@burlingtontelecom.net>

Another question - do you have a brick amplifier inline? If yes, make 
sure the amp passes DC. Some - like Teletec - are DC blocked.

On 7/3/2020 1:52 PM, Mark Johns, K0JM via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Have you verified that the 847 is actually sending the 12v up the coax? If
> so, then I'd look for an open RF choke in the pre-amp.
> --
> Mark D. Johns, K?JM
> AMSAT Ambassador & News Service Editor
> Brooklyn Park, MN USA   EN35hd
> -----------------------------------------------
> "Heaven goes by favor; if it went by merit,
>     you would stay out and your dog would go in."
>      ---Mark Twain
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 12:47 PM Richard Lawn via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
>> I have an older orange case SSB2000 model preamp. I used to use it for EME
>> but replaced it and now want to use it in another installation for
>> satellites. I do not however want to power it separately and want to send
>> power down coax with ft847. This does not seem to work and I?m wondering if
>> I need to make some sort of internal change to the preamp. The manual
>> suggests I can power it through the coax. Any thoughts?
>>
>> Rick, W2JAZ
>> --
>> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 

-- 

73,
Mike, N1JEZ
"A closed mouth gathers no feet"

From rjlawn at gmail.com  Fri Jul  3 18:51:51 2020
From: rjlawn at gmail.com (Richard Lawn)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 14:51:51 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ssb2000 preamp power
In-Reply-To: <fe43c266-d315-87aa-403f-9f1988203188@burlingtontelecom.net>
References: <CADQmrTHSiK_3skuMx+fiTSzit0y5w4sn0AM2BkSSzxkbOONW1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADDbS5D88dLJ3mEwOCtEZeRTW2vn3arNDB04SSynqQwqagiw6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<fe43c266-d315-87aa-403f-9f1988203188@burlingtontelecom.net>
Message-ID: <CADQmrTG4NO_rNZ=tJiJZOcS7OWcOVL7xgV0ivXjTtDVAozU0-g@mail.gmail.com>

Need to verify there really is 12 going down coax. Menu item is set
correctly. Not using any external amp. I?ll get back when I verify the coax
voltage

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 2:24 PM Mike Seguin <n1jez at burlingtontelecom.net>
wrote:

> Another question - do you have a brick amplifier inline? If yes, make
> sure the amp passes DC. Some - like Teletec - are DC blocked.
>
> On 7/3/2020 1:52 PM, Mark Johns, K0JM via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > Have you verified that the 847 is actually sending the 12v up the coax?
> If
> > so, then I'd look for an open RF choke in the pre-amp.
> > --
> > Mark D. Johns, K?JM
> > AMSAT Ambassador & News Service Editor
> > Brooklyn Park, MN USA   EN35hd
> > -----------------------------------------------
> > "Heaven goes by favor; if it went by merit,
> >     you would stay out and your dog would go in."
> >      ---Mark Twain
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 12:47 PM Richard Lawn via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> >> I have an older orange case SSB2000 model preamp. I used to use it for
> EME
> >> but replaced it and now want to use it in another installation for
> >> satellites. I do not however want to power it separately and want to
> send
> >> power down coax with ft847. This does not seem to work and I?m
> wondering if
> >> I need to make some sort of internal change to the preamp. The manual
> >> suggests I can power it through the coax. Any thoughts?
> >>
> >> Rick, W2JAZ
> >> --
> >> Sent from Gmail Mobile
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> >> expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> >> AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
>
> --
>
> 73,
> Mike, N1JEZ
> "A closed mouth gathers no feet"
>
-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile

From rjlawn at gmail.com  Fri Jul  3 19:38:42 2020
From: rjlawn at gmail.com (Richard Lawn)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 15:38:42 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] WTB 70cm preamp
Message-ID: <CADQmrTEJO2Qw2Qh3pFJXKG6q=PrLXeaOrR90hr2-y7bKURQEJw@mail.gmail.com>

I?m looking for a 70cm preamp capable of RF switching and powered through
the coax. Let me know if you?d like to sell one that is excess to your
needs.

73
Rick, W2JAZ
-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile

From ko6th.greg at gmail.com  Fri Jul  3 19:51:36 2020
From: ko6th.greg at gmail.com (Greg D)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 12:51:36 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ssb2000 preamp power
In-Reply-To: <CADQmrTG4NO_rNZ=tJiJZOcS7OWcOVL7xgV0ivXjTtDVAozU0-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADQmrTHSiK_3skuMx+fiTSzit0y5w4sn0AM2BkSSzxkbOONW1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADDbS5D88dLJ3mEwOCtEZeRTW2vn3arNDB04SSynqQwqagiw6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<fe43c266-d315-87aa-403f-9f1988203188@burlingtontelecom.net>
	<CADQmrTG4NO_rNZ=tJiJZOcS7OWcOVL7xgV0ivXjTtDVAozU0-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <da13f063-3e2b-c74a-11f2-3bf8b4e07daa@gmail.com>

Lightning arresters also often block DC.

Greg  KO6TH


Richard Lawn via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Need to verify there really is 12 going down coax. Menu item is set
> correctly. Not using any external amp. I?ll get back when I verify the coax
> voltage
>
>

From aa5uk at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  3 20:17:20 2020
From: aa5uk at yahoo.com (Adrian Engele)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 20:17:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Satellite Roving Trip to EN67/EN56/EN55/EN54 July 8th to
 10, 11? - AA5UK
References: <1999952452.700547.1593807440422.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1999952452.700547.1593807440422@mail.yahoo.com>

Hello Satellite Operators.
I am taking a few days off next week since I have not had a vacation day since December 2019. Starting to get a little cabin fever from all this working at home bit.My GF has given me the thumbs up to go do a satellite rover trip. I looked at the map and decided to head North, as this seems to be the safest place to be during CV-19. 

This will be my first formal CONUS Satellite Rove! I have operated from KH6,VP5, ZF and EN61/EN53.
I will be heading to EN67 Copper Harbor and plan on working my way back home(EN61 - Chicago) via EN56/EN55/EN54, maybe EN53/EN61. 
I plan to be on the road from July 8 to 10th, maybe 11th?? Operations will depend on weather which look spotty at times on Wunderground. 
I have no particular passes planned at this stage best to look for daily updates via Twitter @AA5UK or here at AMSAT-BB.
I will try some FM passes (depending on the usual goat rodeo and civility) with focus more on the linear satellites. I will announce my RX or TX frequencies via Twitter.Please note this is a vacation trip and I will be doing some hiking, drone? flying and photography. 

Follow my travels on APRS SSID: AA5UK-9
More to come. Stay tuned!
73, Adrian AA5UK 






From ke0pbr at gmail.com  Fri Jul  3 21:14:12 2020
From: ke0pbr at gmail.com (Paul Overn)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 16:14:12 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Twitter Rove Announcements
Message-ID: <CAHTma_XW575Z+--PVhXjrhW2eDMZf_VczEWwn1cM0m0JANxbzA@mail.gmail.com>

Hey guys, having trouble keeping up with all the roves and two twitter
accounts to manage the GridmasterHeat and the AMSAT duties. So asking if
you follow my @KE0PBR account for roving announcements, please change to
follow the @gridmasterheat account for that information.

Also if you are announcing a rove on twitter, please tag
the @Gridmasterheat account. So I can post on the AMSAT page and tag people
that need the grid(s)

If you are announcing a rove in the BB, no change needed. And if you want
to alert me by email please do, that email is KE0PBR at gmail dot com.

This really won't be much of a change for many, seems people already made
this change. :-)

-- 
KE0PBR

Paul Overn
AMSAT Ambassador
Twitter: @KE0PBR
Website: KE0PBR.Wordpress.com

From marklhammond at gmail.com  Fri Jul  3 21:45:02 2020
From: marklhammond at gmail.com (Mark L. Hammond)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 17:45:02 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Twitter Rove Announcements
In-Reply-To: <CAHTma_XW575Z+--PVhXjrhW2eDMZf_VczEWwn1cM0m0JANxbzA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHTma_XW575Z+--PVhXjrhW2eDMZf_VczEWwn1cM0m0JANxbzA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPRXzyoKYGnzGQ4G4gSr6K7LZ_j3MMDhJHWHkFRj9=oY8kFfOQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Paul, for taking this on. Since we?re an all volunteer
organization, folks stepping up and jumping in is what we need, and the
stuff AMSAT is made of! This is super helpful.   Grids really aren?t my
thing, but I love the enthusiasm and tenacity many of you have for it!!

73,
Mark N8MH

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 5:16 PM Paul Overn via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Hey guys, having trouble keeping up with all the roves and two twitter
> accounts to manage the GridmasterHeat and the AMSAT duties. So asking if
> you follow my @KE0PBR account for roving announcements, please change to
> follow the @gridmasterheat account for that information.
>
> Also if you are announcing a rove on twitter, please tag
> the @Gridmasterheat account. So I can post on the AMSAT page and tag people
> that need the grid(s)
>
> If you are announcing a rove in the BB, no change needed. And if you want
> to alert me by email please do, that email is KE0PBR at gmail dot com.
>
> This really won't be much of a change for many, seems people already made
> this change. :-)
>
> --
> KE0PBR
>
> Paul Overn
> AMSAT Ambassador
> Twitter: @KE0PBR
> Website: KE0PBR.Wordpress.com
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
-- 
Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
AMSAT Director and Command Station

From kk5do at arrl.net  Fri Jul  3 22:02:50 2020
From: kk5do at arrl.net (Bruce)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 17:02:50 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Satpc 32 question on tracking
References: <b9616a76-5d9e-2aaf-00c0-c3b9c9ef4041.ref@arrl.net>
Message-ID: <b9616a76-5d9e-2aaf-00c0-c3b9c9ef4041@arrl.net>

Got tracking working with the FoxDelta ST USB version this past weekend. 
Doppler correction is working on the IC-9100.

When I ask it to track SO-50, it is supposed to go to 175.8 azimuth and 
1 elevation but instead it goes to 356 azimuth and 138 elevation.? I 
setup the FoxDelta for 180 elevation max and 450 azimuth max.

You would think there is an issue with the FoxDelta. But.... If I switch 
to PO-101, it moves exactly to its location perfectly. I switch back to 
SO-50 and it goes to a whacky az/el.

Have not turned off or touched either the Yaesu controller or FoxDelta, 
RS-44 coming over, tracked it perfectly.

Again not touching anything, just set it for AO-7. Was supposed to be AZ 
337.5 and EL 5.8 but rotor went to AZ 158 and EL 176. The ServerDX says 
target 159az/178el and actual 159az/178el.

Any suggestions? It has done this with several satellites. Even if I 
turn off the Yaesu controller and the FoxDelta and turn them back on, it 
goes to the whacky location for SO-50 and perfectly to PO-101.

On the Rotor page, there is a park location of 10 az and 180 el. 
Correction has zeroes in both az/el. Park automatically after pass is 
off. ServerDX shows target

Scratching my head on this one.

73...bruce

-- 

Bruce Paige, KK5DO
                      
AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
AMSAT Board Member 2016-2020
   
ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
           
Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT*
Also live streaming MP3 athttp://www.amsatnet.com  
Podcast athttp://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml  or iTunes
               
Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News
http://www.arrl.org  

AMSAT on Twitterhttp://www.twitter.com/amsat


From wageners at gmail.com  Fri Jul  3 22:31:54 2020
From: wageners at gmail.com (Stefan Wagener)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 17:31:54 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Satpc 32 question on tracking
In-Reply-To: <b9616a76-5d9e-2aaf-00c0-c3b9c9ef4041@arrl.net>
References: <b9616a76-5d9e-2aaf-00c0-c3b9c9ef4041.ref@arrl.net>
	<b9616a76-5d9e-2aaf-00c0-c3b9c9ef4041@arrl.net>
Message-ID: <CAKu8kHBzG+NdZdMwvpn7sgG433XfLf6bjU8b-e7WF6yks-Fo3Q@mail.gmail.com>

Looks like you have antennas set for flip mode. They will start up in the
opposite direction and then flip over back to below 90 on elevation once
the satellite has passed your location. See if that is the case.

73 Stefan VE4SW

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 5:06 PM Bruce via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Got tracking working with the FoxDelta ST USB version this past weekend.
> Doppler correction is working on the IC-9100.
>
> When I ask it to track SO-50, it is supposed to go to 175.8 azimuth and
> 1 elevation but instead it goes to 356 azimuth and 138 elevation.  I
> setup the FoxDelta for 180 elevation max and 450 azimuth max.
>
> You would think there is an issue with the FoxDelta. But.... If I switch
> to PO-101, it moves exactly to its location perfectly. I switch back to
> SO-50 and it goes to a whacky az/el.
>
> Have not turned off or touched either the Yaesu controller or FoxDelta,
> RS-44 coming over, tracked it perfectly.
>
> Again not touching anything, just set it for AO-7. Was supposed to be AZ
> 337.5 and EL 5.8 but rotor went to AZ 158 and EL 176. The ServerDX says
> target 159az/178el and actual 159az/178el.
>
> Any suggestions? It has done this with several satellites. Even if I
> turn off the Yaesu controller and the FoxDelta and turn them back on, it
> goes to the whacky location for SO-50 and perfectly to PO-101.
>
> On the Rotor page, there is a park location of 10 az and 180 el.
> Correction has zeroes in both az/el. Park automatically after pass is
> off. ServerDX shows target
>
> Scratching my head on this one.
>
> 73...bruce
>
> --
>
> Bruce Paige, KK5DO
>
> AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
> AMSAT Board Member 2016-2020
>
> ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
>
> Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT*
> Also live streaming MP3 athttp://www.amsatnet.com
> Podcast athttp://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml  or iTunes
>
> Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News
> http://www.arrl.org
>
> AMSAT on Twitterhttp://www.twitter.com/amsat
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From kb1pvh at gmail.com  Fri Jul  3 22:38:42 2020
From: kb1pvh at gmail.com (Dave Webb KB1PVH)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 18:38:42 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Satpc 32 question on tracking
In-Reply-To: <CAKu8kHBzG+NdZdMwvpn7sgG433XfLf6bjU8b-e7WF6yks-Fo3Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b9616a76-5d9e-2aaf-00c0-c3b9c9ef4041.ref@arrl.net>
	<b9616a76-5d9e-2aaf-00c0-c3b9c9ef4041@arrl.net>
	<CAKu8kHBzG+NdZdMwvpn7sgG433XfLf6bjU8b-e7WF6yks-Fo3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEMY9Fd7id=pXbjxL5=cOkLVWwhLzN6a5GZsRvup_iMg7uU4pA@mail.gmail.com>

If the R in the upper left corner is yellow it means it's in flip mode if I
remember correctly.

Dave-KB1PVH


Sent from my Galaxy S9

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020, 6:36 PM Stefan Wagener via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Looks like you have antennas set for flip mode. They will start up in the
> opposite direction and then flip over back to below 90 on elevation once
> the satellite has passed your location. See if that is the case.
>
> 73 Stefan VE4SW
>
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 5:06 PM Bruce via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Got tracking working with the FoxDelta ST USB version this past weekend.
> > Doppler correction is working on the IC-9100.
> >
> > When I ask it to track SO-50, it is supposed to go to 175.8 azimuth and
> > 1 elevation but instead it goes to 356 azimuth and 138 elevation.  I
> > setup the FoxDelta for 180 elevation max and 450 azimuth max.
> >
> > You would think there is an issue with the FoxDelta. But.... If I switch
> > to PO-101, it moves exactly to its location perfectly. I switch back to
> > SO-50 and it goes to a whacky az/el.
> >
> > Have not turned off or touched either the Yaesu controller or FoxDelta,
> > RS-44 coming over, tracked it perfectly.
> >
> > Again not touching anything, just set it for AO-7. Was supposed to be AZ
> > 337.5 and EL 5.8 but rotor went to AZ 158 and EL 176. The ServerDX says
> > target 159az/178el and actual 159az/178el.
> >
> > Any suggestions? It has done this with several satellites. Even if I
> > turn off the Yaesu controller and the FoxDelta and turn them back on, it
> > goes to the whacky location for SO-50 and perfectly to PO-101.
> >
> > On the Rotor page, there is a park location of 10 az and 180 el.
> > Correction has zeroes in both az/el. Park automatically after pass is
> > off. ServerDX shows target
> >
> > Scratching my head on this one.
> >
> > 73...bruce
> >
> > --
> >
> > Bruce Paige, KK5DO
> >
> > AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
> > AMSAT Board Member 2016-2020
> >
> > ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
> >
> > Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT*
> > Also live streaming MP3 athttp://www.amsatnet.com
> > Podcast athttp://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml  or iTunes
> >
> > Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News
> > http://www.arrl.org
> >
> > AMSAT on Twitterhttp://www.twitter.com/amsat
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From kk5do at arrl.net  Fri Jul  3 22:49:07 2020
From: kk5do at arrl.net (Bruce)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 17:49:07 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Satpc 32 question on tracking
In-Reply-To: <CAEMY9Fd7id=pXbjxL5=cOkLVWwhLzN6a5GZsRvup_iMg7uU4pA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b9616a76-5d9e-2aaf-00c0-c3b9c9ef4041.ref@arrl.net>
	<b9616a76-5d9e-2aaf-00c0-c3b9c9ef4041@arrl.net>
	<CAKu8kHBzG+NdZdMwvpn7sgG433XfLf6bjU8b-e7WF6yks-Fo3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEMY9Fd7id=pXbjxL5=cOkLVWwhLzN6a5GZsRvup_iMg7uU4pA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <70b38536-044c-c9f1-e4f3-38ebfbc324b1@arrl.net>

I would be perfectly happy if it were in a flipped mode pointing in the 
correct direction. That would explain the elevation rotor. How do you 
explain the azimuth rotor being off 138 degrees? If the elevation were 
flipped, the azimuth should be 180 degrees off. Then it would be just 
fine. Or am I thinking incorrectly here?

I just updated the keps with the NASA keps. Will see if that fixes 
anything. Just an interesting situation. RS-44 is coming up in 15 
minutes. It has always tracked it perfectly.

73...bruce


On 7/3/2020 5:38 PM, Dave Webb KB1PVH via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> If the R in the upper left corner is yellow it means it's in flip mode if I
> remember correctly.
>
> Dave-KB1PVH
>
>
> Sent from my Galaxy S9
>
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020, 6:36 PM Stefan Wagener via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Looks like you have antennas set for flip mode. They will start up in the
>> opposite direction and then flip over back to below 90 on elevation once
>> the satellite has passed your location. See if that is the case.
>>
>> 73 Stefan VE4SW
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 5:06 PM Bruce via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Got tracking working with the FoxDelta ST USB version this past weekend.
>>> Doppler correction is working on the IC-9100.
>>>
>>> When I ask it to track SO-50, it is supposed to go to 175.8 azimuth and
>>> 1 elevation but instead it goes to 356 azimuth and 138 elevation.  I
>>> setup the FoxDelta for 180 elevation max and 450 azimuth max.
>>>
>>> You would think there is an issue with the FoxDelta. But.... If I switch
>>> to PO-101, it moves exactly to its location perfectly. I switch back to
>>> SO-50 and it goes to a whacky az/el.
>>>
>>> Have not turned off or touched either the Yaesu controller or FoxDelta,
>>> RS-44 coming over, tracked it perfectly.
>>>
>>> Again not touching anything, just set it for AO-7. Was supposed to be AZ
>>> 337.5 and EL 5.8 but rotor went to AZ 158 and EL 176. The ServerDX says
>>> target 159az/178el and actual 159az/178el.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions? It has done this with several satellites. Even if I
>>> turn off the Yaesu controller and the FoxDelta and turn them back on, it
>>> goes to the whacky location for SO-50 and perfectly to PO-101.
>>>
>>> On the Rotor page, there is a park location of 10 az and 180 el.
>>> Correction has zeroes in both az/el. Park automatically after pass is
>>> off. ServerDX shows target
>>>
>>> Scratching my head on this one.
>>>
>>> 73...bruce
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Bruce Paige, KK5DO
>>>
>>> AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
>>> AMSAT Board Member 2016-2020
>>>
>>> ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
>>>
>>> Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT*
>>> Also live streaming MP3 athttp://www.amsatnet.com
>>> Podcast athttp://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml  or iTunes
>>>
>>> Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News
>>> http://www.arrl.org
>>>
>>> AMSAT on Twitterhttp://www.twitter.com/amsat
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions
>>> expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


-- 

Bruce Paige, KK5DO
                      
AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
AMSAT Board Member 2016-2020
   
ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
           
Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT*
Also live streaming MP3 at http://www.amsatnet.com
Podcast at http://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes
               
Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News
http://www.arrl.org

AMSAT on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/amsat


From wageners at gmail.com  Fri Jul  3 23:04:48 2020
From: wageners at gmail.com (Stefan Wagener)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 18:04:48 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Satpc 32 question on tracking
In-Reply-To: <70b38536-044c-c9f1-e4f3-38ebfbc324b1@arrl.net>
References: <b9616a76-5d9e-2aaf-00c0-c3b9c9ef4041.ref@arrl.net>
	<b9616a76-5d9e-2aaf-00c0-c3b9c9ef4041@arrl.net>
	<CAKu8kHBzG+NdZdMwvpn7sgG433XfLf6bjU8b-e7WF6yks-Fo3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEMY9Fd7id=pXbjxL5=cOkLVWwhLzN6a5GZsRvup_iMg7uU4pA@mail.gmail.com>
	<70b38536-044c-c9f1-e4f3-38ebfbc324b1@arrl.net>
Message-ID: <CAKu8kHD_o4VLSt6=0V31UoyUXhgrn4HjT9rgauj8t-FLFqo0ag@mail.gmail.com>

It's perfectly fine

...."Was supposed to be AZ
337.5 and EL 5.8 but rotor went to AZ 158 and EL 176. The ServerDX says
target 159az/178el and actual 159az/178el."....

337 AZ -180 is 157 (158 actual on your rotor)
5.8 E -180 is +_174 (176 actual on your rotor)


On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 5:57 PM Bruce via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> I would be perfectly happy if it were in a flipped mode pointing in the
> correct direction. That would explain the elevation rotor. How do you
> explain the azimuth rotor being off 138 degrees? If the elevation were
> flipped, the azimuth should be 180 degrees off. Then it would be just
> fine. Or am I thinking incorrectly here?
>
> I just updated the keps with the NASA keps. Will see if that fixes
> anything. Just an interesting situation. RS-44 is coming up in 15
> minutes. It has always tracked it perfectly.
>
> 73...bruce
>
>
> On 7/3/2020 5:38 PM, Dave Webb KB1PVH via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > If the R in the upper left corner is yellow it means it's in flip mode
> if I
> > remember correctly.
> >
> > Dave-KB1PVH
> >
> >
> > Sent from my Galaxy S9
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 3, 2020, 6:36 PM Stefan Wagener via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Looks like you have antennas set for flip mode. They will start up in
> the
> >> opposite direction and then flip over back to below 90 on elevation once
> >> the satellite has passed your location. See if that is the case.
> >>
> >> 73 Stefan VE4SW
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 5:06 PM Bruce via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Got tracking working with the FoxDelta ST USB version this past
> weekend.
> >>> Doppler correction is working on the IC-9100.
> >>>
> >>> When I ask it to track SO-50, it is supposed to go to 175.8 azimuth and
> >>> 1 elevation but instead it goes to 356 azimuth and 138 elevation.  I
> >>> setup the FoxDelta for 180 elevation max and 450 azimuth max.
> >>>
> >>> You would think there is an issue with the FoxDelta. But.... If I
> switch
> >>> to PO-101, it moves exactly to its location perfectly. I switch back to
> >>> SO-50 and it goes to a whacky az/el.
> >>>
> >>> Have not turned off or touched either the Yaesu controller or FoxDelta,
> >>> RS-44 coming over, tracked it perfectly.
> >>>
> >>> Again not touching anything, just set it for AO-7. Was supposed to be
> AZ
> >>> 337.5 and EL 5.8 but rotor went to AZ 158 and EL 176. The ServerDX says
> >>> target 159az/178el and actual 159az/178el.
> >>>
> >>> Any suggestions? It has done this with several satellites. Even if I
> >>> turn off the Yaesu controller and the FoxDelta and turn them back on,
> it
> >>> goes to the whacky location for SO-50 and perfectly to PO-101.
> >>>
> >>> On the Rotor page, there is a park location of 10 az and 180 el.
> >>> Correction has zeroes in both az/el. Park automatically after pass is
> >>> off. ServerDX shows target
> >>>
> >>> Scratching my head on this one.
> >>>
> >>> 73...bruce
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Bruce Paige, KK5DO
> >>>
> >>> AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
> >>> AMSAT Board Member 2016-2020
> >>>
> >>> ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
> >>>
> >>> Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT*
> >>> Also live streaming MP3 athttp://www.amsatnet.com
> >>> Podcast athttp://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml  or iTunes
> >>>
> >>> Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News
> >>> http://www.arrl.org
> >>>
> >>> AMSAT on Twitterhttp://www.twitter.com/amsat
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions
> >>> expressed
> >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> >>> AMSAT-NA.
> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >> program!
> >>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> >> expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> >> AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> --
>
> Bruce Paige, KK5DO
>
> AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
> AMSAT Board Member 2016-2020
>
> ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
>
> Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT*
> Also live streaming MP3 at http://www.amsatnet.com
> Podcast at http://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes
>
> Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News
> http://www.arrl.org
>
> AMSAT on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/amsat
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From rjlawn at gmail.com  Sat Jul  4 00:26:29 2020
From: rjlawn at gmail.com (Richard Lawn)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 20:26:29 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ssb2000 preamp power
Message-ID: <CADQmrTHcRGYFUXzn-rCWpoGXrEK17usDvdnBYKzKg2u17qoD5A@mail.gmail.com>

I?ve verified that there is 12v from the radio on the RF output. I?ve also
verified that the preamp is not working. Strange as it was working fine in
my EME system but I was powering it with a separate line controlled by a
sequencer. I wonder if there is some sort of choke or something that is
added or removed when powered via the coax.

I also have no inline lighting arrestors and am not using an amp between
the radio and antenna.

Rick, W2JAZ
-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile

From trevor_barron at verizon.net  Fri Jul  3 17:28:46 2020
From: trevor_barron at verizon.net (Trevor Barron)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 17:28:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] LVB Tracker firmware
In-Reply-To: <01D612EC-293F-4771-9E67-F728E1B8E1BE@comcast.net>
References: <01D612EC-293F-4771-9E67-F728E1B8E1BE@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1955705830.662224.1593797326991@mail.yahoo.com>

On Howard's site, the link for the zip file that contains everything is working.? It contains v1.0 so you could update both of your trackers.
<http://www.g6lvb.com/Articles/LVBTracker/v010.zip>
TrevorKA1TW




-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Krome via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
To: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Sent: Fri, Jul 3, 2020 12:43 pm
Subject: [amsat-bb] LVB Tracker firmware

Hi all
I have 2 G6LVB Trackers. One has firmware v. 0.7 and the other has v. 0.906. I would like to upgrade the older unit but cannot find the required files. Howard?s site has a link that fails and there is no link on AMSAT-UK.? Can someone please point me to the latest?
Thanks and 73,

Ed Krome K9EK

Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From n8fgv at usa.net  Fri Jul  3 18:20:46 2020
From: n8fgv at usa.net (Daniel Schultz)
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2020 14:20:46 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] [CubeSat] Naval Academy Job Posting
Message-ID: <243ygcsTU4768Set.1593800446@web07.cms.usa.net>

Nobody can replace you Bob!

Dan Schultz N8FGV


------ Original Message ------
Received: Fri, 03 Jul 2020 01:55:24 PM EDT
From: amsat-bb-request at amsat.org

Anybody want my Cubesat / Engineers job at the Academy?
Bob, WB4APR

---------- Forwarded message ---------
The U.S. Naval Academy?s Small Satellite Lab is looking for a General
Engineer in GS-13 pay grade. More details can be found at:






From vimone at alice.it  Sat Jul  4 07:59:24 2020
From: vimone at alice.it (Vincenzo Mone)
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2020 09:59:24 +0200
Subject: [amsat-bb] gr-satellites
Message-ID: <F7452A1C-B9ED-4B80-9227-E3BEC6BD8D75@alice.it>

Hi folks,
It is a while that I am starting to use Linux to decode the digital satellites.
I have installed UBUNTU and all the required programs.
I just have one problem with gr-satellites that I hope someone can explain me what am I found wrong.
I am using the latest version of gr-satellites that uses the one line command.
I have success to decode the FM satellites but not luck with the SSB ones.
If I run in the terminal window the following command:

gr_satellites [FM satellite] ? udp ?samp_rate 48e3

So I get the data incoming in the terminal window without problems but viceversa if I give the following command:

gr_satellites [SSB satellite] ? udp ?samp_rate 48e3

I will not get any incoming data in the terminal window.
Please is there anybody so kind to tell me that if it is normal or I am doing something wrong.
Any help will be really appreciated 

73?s de Enzo IK8OZV 
EasyLog 5 BetaTester
EasyLog PDA BetaTester
WinBollet BetaTester
D.C.I. CheckPoint Regione Campania
Skype: ik8ozv8520




     *******************************************
     *******    GSM  +39 328 7110193    *******
     ******       SMS  +39 328 7110193    *******
     ********************************************

From peternyy at verizon.net  Sat Jul  4 15:50:29 2020
From: peternyy at verizon.net (Peter)
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2020 11:50:29 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] W2JV/K2A
References: <7E9453B22C114F82B3A50CCE9E4A12B9.ref@DESKTOP8A7S6MK>
Message-ID: <7E9453B22C114F82B3A50CCE9E4A12B9@DESKTOP8A7S6MK>

Hello,

I want to apologize to the Rover station that I interfered with on a A0-91 pass on Thursday, operating as K2A, I wasn?t paying attention to my uplink.  I will be more careful in future passes,  it?s terrific to see all the rover activity.  Have a Safe, Healthy and Happy 4th.

73?s Peter
W2JV

From n8hm at arrl.net  Sat Jul  4 16:44:54 2020
From: n8hm at arrl.net (Paul Stoetzer)
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2020 12:44:54 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] ANS-186 AMSAT News Service Special Bulletin - AMSAT
 Responds to Allegations of Unauthorized Legal Expenses
Message-ID: <CABzOSOqbWaTG-+xTkvYW+1H1=Z_TNgeSkCdQZXG7LuGQKOeP0g@mail.gmail.com>

AMSAT NEWS SERVICE SPECIAL BULLETIN
ANS-186

The AMSAT News Service bulletins are a free, weekly news and infor-
mation service of AMSAT North America, The Radio Amateur Satellite
Corporation. ANS publishes news related to Amateur Radio in Space
including reports on the activities of a worldwide group of Amateur
Radio operators who share an active interest in designing, building,
launching and communicating through analog and digital Amateur Radio
satellites.

The news feed on http://www.amsat.org publishes news of Amateur
Radio in Space as soon as our volunteers can post it.

Please send any amateur satellite news or reports to:
ans-editor at amsat.org.

You can sign up for free e-mail delivery of the AMSAT News Service
Bulletins via the ANS List; to join this list see:
http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/ans


In this edition:

* AMSAT Responds to Allegations of Unauthorized Legal Expenses

SB SAT @ AMSAT $ANS-186
ANS-186 AMSAT News Service Special Bulletin

AMSAT News Service Bulletin 186.01
 From AMSAT HQ KENSINGTON, MD.
DATE July 4, 2020
To All RADIO AMATEURS
BID: $ANS-186.01

AMSAT Responds to Allegations of Unauthorized Legal Expenses

The Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT) has been made aware of
public comments alleging financial mismanagement in the form of
?unauthorized? legal expenditures. AMSAT takes these allegations very
seriously and in full disclosure, has investigated these claims for
many months.

AMSAT?s corporate records give a full accounting of all expenditures
and are provided to its Directors upon request, in compliance with our
governing documents and law of the District of Columbia (D.C.) Our
office remains closed due to COVID-19, where those documents reside.
Furthermore, AMSAT complies with IRS rules for 501(c)(3) disclosure of
public financial documents, such as the Form 990 available on the
AMSAT website. Financial review and accounting services from a third-
party firm of Certified Public Accountants are utilized by the
corporation to ensure governance to best practice and law.

The Corporation vehemently denies false statements alleging
?unauthorized? expenditures.

On behalf of AMSAT,

Clayton Coleman, W5PFG
President

[ANS thanks Clayton Coleman, W5PFG, AMSAT President, for the above
information]

/EX

In addition to regular membership, AMSAT offers membership in the
President's Club. Members of the President's Club, as sustaining
donors to AMSAT Project Funds, will be eligible to receive addi-
tional benefits. Application forms are available from the AMSAT
Office.

73 and Remember to help Keep Amateur Radio in Space,

This week's ANS Contributing Editor,

Paul Stoetzer, N8HM
n8hm at amsat dot org

From trevor_barron at verizon.net  Sat Jul  4 20:13:16 2020
From: trevor_barron at verizon.net (Trevor Barron)
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2020 20:13:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb]  LVB Tracker firmware
References: <1649802609.909773.1593893596230.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1649802609.909773.1593893596230@mail.yahoo.com>

A member kindly pointed out the zip link on the LVB website contains the v0.7 firmware.? So I searched some more.
I found 2 links to the v0.9 firmware, on the amsat-bb of all places!??This is the message thread that contains the info for updating to v0.9 firmware.? ?<https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2015-September/055065.html>
73Trevor, KA1TW


From wandtosborne at gmail.com  Sat Jul  4 20:37:54 2020
From: wandtosborne at gmail.com (Wendy and Terry Osborne)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2020 08:37:54 +1200
Subject: [amsat-bb] Rocket Lab Launch brougth forqard
Message-ID: <b01a905b-a884-c461-0b2e-e35237d52d92@gmail.com>

Rocket Lab launch streaming starts in about 1/2 an hour.
They have a brief break in the weather.
See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZcZoDFYjXc

73,
Terry ZL2BAC

From scott23192 at gmail.com  Sat Jul  4 23:48:51 2020
From: scott23192 at gmail.com (Scott)
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2020 19:48:51 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] LilacSat-2 Ground Interference Resolved (hopefully!)
Message-ID: <CAJCSnOZNPy5X4dNEZCE5QLCZ2giukG2vB_f3Ok2cZ3mzqRve_g@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone.

By the quirk of the orbital pattern, for several months I've found myself
at home -and- on the radio during some high, usually weekend evening passes
of LilacSat-2 (CAS-3H).  Seems like I often get a good pass around 6pm or
so on the East Coast Fri/Sat/Sun.

It's bad enough that you never really know when LilacSat-2's FM transponder
might be active (144.350 up; 437.200 down; no tone), but it seemed like
every time I did catch it active there would be obvious ground stations
getting into the uplink.   You could still make contacts, but it was tough
squeezing in between stations that had no idea they were being
retransmitted across the entire country.

I never could catch a call sign, but suspected they might be centrally
located since the conversations often lasted from AOS to LOS.

Well, last week I finally got a partial call sign.  After searching on QRZ,
I thought I might be on the right track & sent an email to Mark, AA0YY.
Right there on his QRZ page was mention of an AllStar node set to 144.250!
Not EXACTLY the uplink freq of LilacSat-2, but in the ballpark.  AND, he's
located in Missouri which is pretty close to the center of the continental
U.S.

Mark was super helpful and copied his reply to Dan, KE0OZU, who
collaborates with him on their AllStar system.  That nailed it.  Dan
replied that while Mark's AllStar node was on 144.250, it was actually
Dan's own AllStar node that was set square on 144.350.

I didn't mention anything to either of them about changing frequency...
didn't have to.  Dan immediately replied that he would change his system's
frequency to avoid the conflict with LilacSat-2.

I've only been around for a couple of passes since Dan made the change, but
so far no more ground repeater conversations on the uplink.  There's some
general static noise on LilacSat-2 when no one transmits, but otherwise the
signal can often be absolutely crystal clear.

So, only time will tell if that was the ONLY ground repeater getting into
LilacSat-2's uplink, but hopefully it was an isolated case.  The up/down
status of the FM Transponder is still a hit or miss proposition, but since
the other FM sats are often crowded, folks might want to check to see if
this one is active when you have a high pass.

-Scott,  K4KDR

From jeff30339 at gmail.com  Sun Jul  5 03:55:43 2020
From: jeff30339 at gmail.com (Jeff Johns)
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2020 22:55:43 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] LilacSat-2 Ground Interference Resolved (hopefully!)
In-Reply-To: <CAJCSnOZNPy5X4dNEZCE5QLCZ2giukG2vB_f3Ok2cZ3mzqRve_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJCSnOZNPy5X4dNEZCE5QLCZ2giukG2vB_f3Ok2cZ3mzqRve_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DABD973C-254F-4909-AB1B-242CD62CCA3C@gmail.com>

That?s some excellent detective work and it?s awesome they worked with you to avoid anymore interference. Good job!

Jeff WE4B

> On Jul 4, 2020, at 6:51 PM, Scott via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?Hello everyone.
> 
> By the quirk of the orbital pattern, for several months I've found myself
> at home -and- on the radio during some high, usually weekend evening passes
> of LilacSat-2 (CAS-3H).  Seems like I often get a good pass around 6pm or
> so on the East Coast Fri/Sat/Sun.
> 
> It's bad enough that you never really know when LilacSat-2's FM transponder
> might be active (144.350 up; 437.200 down; no tone), but it seemed like
> every time I did catch it active there would be obvious ground stations
> getting into the uplink.   You could still make contacts, but it was tough
> squeezing in between stations that had no idea they were being
> retransmitted across the entire country.
> 
> I never could catch a call sign, but suspected they might be centrally
> located since the conversations often lasted from AOS to LOS.
> 
> Well, last week I finally got a partial call sign.  After searching on QRZ,
> I thought I might be on the right track & sent an email to Mark, AA0YY.
> Right there on his QRZ page was mention of an AllStar node set to 144.250!
> Not EXACTLY the uplink freq of LilacSat-2, but in the ballpark.  AND, he's
> located in Missouri which is pretty close to the center of the continental
> U.S.
> 
> Mark was super helpful and copied his reply to Dan, KE0OZU, who
> collaborates with him on their AllStar system.  That nailed it.  Dan
> replied that while Mark's AllStar node was on 144.250, it was actually
> Dan's own AllStar node that was set square on 144.350.
> 
> I didn't mention anything to either of them about changing frequency...
> didn't have to.  Dan immediately replied that he would change his system's
> frequency to avoid the conflict with LilacSat-2.
> 
> I've only been around for a couple of passes since Dan made the change, but
> so far no more ground repeater conversations on the uplink.  There's some
> general static noise on LilacSat-2 when no one transmits, but otherwise the
> signal can often be absolutely crystal clear.
> 
> So, only time will tell if that was the ONLY ground repeater getting into
> LilacSat-2's uplink, but hopefully it was an isolated case.  The up/down
> status of the FM Transponder is still a hit or miss proposition, but since
> the other FM sats are often crowded, folks might want to check to see if
> this one is active when you have a high pass.
> 
> -Scott,  K4KDR
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From rwyrwas48 at gmail.com  Sun Jul  5 04:40:04 2020
From: rwyrwas48 at gmail.com (Rick Wyrwas)
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2020 23:40:04 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Board of directors meetings
Message-ID: <CAFeVdEPbP-+5VyzK5tWPo8iKMnuHU3Q4GFdkrjhQ-4V0YmwGUg@mail.gmail.com>

Can someone please explain why there are no monthly board meeting being
held.??

Rick
WA9JBQ

-- 
Rick Wyrwas

From bruninga at usna.edu  Sun Jul  5 12:33:29 2020
From: bruninga at usna.edu (Robert Bruninga)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2020 08:33:29 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Fwd: [atgp] Mt. Washington Portable needed 18 July!
In-Reply-To: <58tg.1593887823167407174.y6Ld@groups.io>
References: <58tg.1593887823167407174.y6Ld@groups.io>
Message-ID: <CALdCfN+8TPGH6bFBRE4O4Aar4A3L4rbg-aHvnUaXxkU0ubaBbA@mail.gmail.com>

We still need a rover with a kenwood D710 or D72 (can digipeat 1200/9600)
on 18 July Saturday to drive to top of Mt Washington to close the link
along the 2000 mile Appalachian Golden Packet Event.  It lasts from aboutj
11 Am for 4 hours.

There are 15 mountains in the chain and MT washington is critical in the
link from Maine to Ga..
See http://aprs.org/at-golden-packet.html

Bob, WB4APR
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: tiim via groups.io <timdapice=yahoo.com at groups.io>
Date: Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 2:37 PM
Subject: [atgp] Mt. Washington UNMANNED #atgp20
To: <main at atgp.groups.io>


ATGP FYI: As of July 4th, Mt. Washington is unmanned. I tried contacting
two local APRS hams to no avail.
_._,_._,_
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From clintbradford at mac.com  Sun Jul  5 12:50:11 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2020 05:50:11 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Board of directors meetings
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5556.1593952445.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.5556.1593952445.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <818CFE28-2357-4B03-B794-95BD9EA26F2D@mac.com>

Last time I read their bylaws, ?monthly? meetings were not required.

Clint Bradford K6LCS



> 
> Can someone please explain why there are no monthly board meeting being
> held.??
> 
> Rick
> WA9JBQ
> 
> -- 
> Rick Wyrwas
> 

From kk5do at arrl.net  Sun Jul  5 13:54:17 2020
From: kk5do at arrl.net (Bruce)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2020 08:54:17 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Board of directors meetings
In-Reply-To: <818CFE28-2357-4B03-B794-95BD9EA26F2D@mac.com>
References: <mailman.5556.1593952445.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<818CFE28-2357-4B03-B794-95BD9EA26F2D@mac.com>
Message-ID: <94abb1b4-3e2a-565e-29c1-3721a84568c4@arrl.net>

By laws only state once a year as soon after the election as possible.

Section 5:? The Board shall meet in person as soon as practicable after 
the Secretary?s announcement of election results for the purpose of 
electing Officers and for such other business as may properly come 
before the Board. Additional meetings of the Board may be held at its 
discretion. The Board may also establish rules providing for telephone 
or telegraphic consultations in addition to the meetings required under 
these Bylaws, but no such consultation may result in official actions of 
the Board unless all Directors have been given timely and adequate 
notice of such events and afforded reasonable opportunity to 
participate, and unless the Secretary has kept the minutes of such 
consultation. At any meeting or consultation of the Board, a simple 
majority of Directors shall constitute a quorum.

On 7/5/2020 7:50 AM, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Last time I read their bylaws, ?monthly? meetings were not required.
>
> Clint Bradford K6LCS
>
>
>
>> Can someone please explain why there are no monthly board meeting being
>> held.??
>>
>> Rick
>> WA9JBQ
>>
>> -- 
>> Rick Wyrwas
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


-- 

Bruce Paige, KK5DO
                      
AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
AMSAT Board Member 2016-2020
   
ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
           
Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT*
Also live streaming MP3 at http://www.amsatnet.com
Podcast at http://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes
               
Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News
http://www.arrl.org

AMSAT on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/amsat



From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Sun Jul  5 15:56:41 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2020 08:56:41 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Board of directors meetings
In-Reply-To: <94abb1b4-3e2a-565e-29c1-3721a84568c4@arrl.net>
References: <mailman.5556.1593952445.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<818CFE28-2357-4B03-B794-95BD9EA26F2D@mac.com>
	<94abb1b4-3e2a-565e-29c1-3721a84568c4@arrl.net>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2UPkbhCCA6JK_133NW9Ub=7249FHqAk5+zcdUL1nU=YpQ@mail.gmail.com>

AMSAT traditionally has held two leadership meetings a month. One with the
board, and one with board and senior officers.

A large and active organization like AMSAT really does need leadership to
meet regularly so it can stay informed and make decisions. Letting officers
simply run the entire show, expecting to get rubber stamped once a year by
a sleepy apathetic board, is a recipe for disaster for *any* corporation.

At the Arlington Symposium, which was the first board meeting that Patrick
Stoddard and I attended, Joe Spier, Mark Hammond, and Jerry Buxton claimed
that regular board meetings were "unproductive". Suddenly, the meetings
simply couldn't happen. Suddenly, they're meaningless and a waste of time.
Hm.

Tom Clark said this was unusual, unwise, and unwarranted. He said he had no
idea why Joe Spier would do this.

Patrick and I objected to the sudden change from regular meetings to
"meetings whenever the President decides". Patrick and I are minority
members of the board. We were overruled.

By the 2019 Symposium Board Meeting, we'd already been denied access to
corporate documents and communications, and we'd been (falsely) told that
we had to personally sign a bunch of NDAs in order to get access. We'd
gotten some name-calling and some runaround.

These experiences were covered in detail in reports to members starting
here:
https://w5nyv.blogspot.com/2019/09/report-to-members-1-amsat-na-board-of.html
https://w5nyv.blogspot.com/2019/10/report-to-members-2-amsat-na-board-of.html
https://w5nyv.blogspot.com/2019/10/report-to-members-3-amsat-na-board-of.html

But, I was very optimistic that we would actually have monthly meetings.
They seriously couldn't literally mean "none".

We really needed to learn how to work together, since what Patrick and I
campaigned on was very different than the way AMSAT had been run.
Transparency, change of direction in technology, and open source.

But, Joe Spier refused to call any board meetings after 2019 Symposium.

There was an emergency board meeting to replace him when he resigned in
late January 2019. No other business was entertained. It had been nearly
four months since the annual board meeting.

Clayton Coleman didn't restore the regular schedule when he took over.

Clayton called the first real board meeting of his term in March. I was
able to get a bylaws committee motion approved and I was able to get AMSAT
to formally support the ARISS AREx project (AREx had requested a letter). I
was able to restart the ITAR/EAR policy work with FD Associates. Patrick
was able to get Clayton to promise to fire Hurwit and Associates. This was
a lot of progress! This is what we promised members to do our best to do.

We looked forward to the next real board meeting where we could address
ongoing disagreements over the financial outlook and how to reduce
expenses. Clayton promised weekly reports, and things seemed to be unstuck.

But, no other meetings have been scheduled since then. No reports have been
received from Clayton. Very few reports from any officers have been
received. And the very serious issue of large unauthorized spending slowly
emerged.

Patrick and I called for board meetings to address the unauthorized
spending. We need one more board member to call a meeting. Or, the
President calls the meeting. We wanted the unauthorized spending issues
resolved internally. No one joined the call for this meeting.

A report about that is here:
https://w5nyv.blogspot.com/2020/07/report-to-members-8-amsat-na-board-of.html

There was one 15 minute emergency meeting called to rubber stamp a yes vote
on applying for a COVID-19 loan. I said we shouldn't touch the money. We
were in no danger of going bankrupt like so many other businesses
(restaurants, service industries). The loan was approved by the board 5-2
and it was approved.

When ARISS USA announced, Patrick and I called for a meeting in order to
find out what happened, and get the lessons learned. Clayton said there was
no discussion before the announcement. It sounded like a surprise. Others
have said the split was talked about. Doesn't matter. Either way, it seems
like the sudden departure of a project that has been a huge part of AMSAT
for 24 years deserves more than a short and understandably exasperated note
from the President.

So far, no meeting. No report. No discussion.

So, is AMSAT required to have regular meetings? No. It's not uncommon for
organizations to only require one meeting a year.

Should AMSAT have regular meetings, like it's always had? Damn straight it
should!

Bruce Paige has filed no motions this year except to move to close the few
meetings we have had.

He complains about "administrative tasks" on the board mailing list. You
have one job, Bruce. You are part of the administration.

He is perfectly ok with the bare minimum one board meeting a year, at
Symposium.

He had shown zero remorse in being part of the unauthorized spending. If a
bill comes in, the organization just pays it. What's the big deal?

Please do not return him to the board. He isn't helping with oversight or
expense reduction. I'm sure he's a lovely person and does well elsewhere.
Just not on the board.

Regular meetings for AMSAT leadership are a no-brainer. The incumbents
blocked regular meetings starting at 2019 Symposium, and that continues to
the present day.

If you want a functional board that provides oversight, achievable expense
reduction, transparency, and can produce real progress on regulatory
compliance and open source policies, please vote for Bob McGwier, Howie
DeFelice, and Jeff Johns.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 6:57 AM Bruce via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> By laws only state once a year as soon after the election as possible.
>
> Section 5:  The Board shall meet in person as soon as practicable after
> the Secretary?s announcement of election results for the purpose of
> electing Officers and for such other business as may properly come
> before the Board. Additional meetings of the Board may be held at its
> discretion. The Board may also establish rules providing for telephone
> or telegraphic consultations in addition to the meetings required under
> these Bylaws, but no such consultation may result in official actions of
> the Board unless all Directors have been given timely and adequate
> notice of such events and afforded reasonable opportunity to
> participate, and unless the Secretary has kept the minutes of such
> consultation. At any meeting or consultation of the Board, a simple
> majority of Directors shall constitute a quorum.
>
> On 7/5/2020 7:50 AM, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > Last time I read their bylaws, ?monthly? meetings were not required.
> >
> > Clint Bradford K6LCS
> >
> >
> >
> >> Can someone please explain why there are no monthly board meeting being
> >> held.??
> >>
> >> Rick
> >> WA9JBQ
> >>
> >> --
> >> Rick Wyrwas
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> --
>
> Bruce Paige, KK5DO
>
> AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
> AMSAT Board Member 2016-2020
>
> ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
>
> Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT*
> Also live streaming MP3 at http://www.amsatnet.com
> Podcast at http://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes
>
> Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News
> http://www.arrl.org
>
> AMSAT on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/amsat
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From n0jy at amsat.org  Sun Jul  5 19:04:28 2020
From: n0jy at amsat.org (Jerry Buxton)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2020 14:04:28 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Board of directors meetings
In-Reply-To: <818CFE28-2357-4B03-B794-95BD9EA26F2D@mac.com>
References: <mailman.5556.1593952445.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<818CFE28-2357-4B03-B794-95BD9EA26F2D@mac.com>
Message-ID: <3549c331-355a-4bc9-3c48-9776d77a32d5@amsat.org>

On 7/5/2020 07:50, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Last time I read their bylaws, ?monthly? meetings were not required.
>
> Clint Bradford K6LCS
>
>
>
>> Can someone please explain why there are no monthly board meeting being
>> held.??
>>
>> Rick
>> WA9JBQ
>>
>>
I see that, as is the norm today whenever there is an election, some of
the "facts" of the issue presented in the form of what certain
individuals said are grossly out of context.

Over a year ago, March or April 2019 to the best of my recollection, I
put forth the idea during the monthly telephone gathering of Directors
as well as in an email to the Board of Directors.? At that time and for
some time these monthly "strategic planning" meetings had become very
much a report by the President on current activities of themselves and
the Officers as to their current and wholly expected/normal activities.?
These meetings began to run an hour or more with discussion of minutiae
in the normal execution of those duties which, in my opinion, had
nothing to do with Board of Directors level strategic planning for the
Corporation.? Officers were invited and while not required to attend,
often participated in the discussions.? Were it in fact a meeting with a
Board level strategic planning item, that strategic discussion was in my
opinion, dragged out and dragged down by these reports which would limit
the strategic discussions often due to time and as well, due to
interjection by officers where their input should and could have been
requested in a more formal way as an agenda item for further discussion
of whatever strategic ideas the Board discussed during the Board of
Directors Strategic Planning meeting.

The same discussions and minutiae of the Officers expected/normal
activities were then discussed again two weeks later on the Officers
"tactical planning"? meetings, by the officers, with the Directors being
invited and while not required to attend, often were more or less
expected to be there to hear the same thing they heard two weeks prior.?
In fact this was a norm with the AMSAT leadership for some time and even
prior to my becoming an Officer and later, Director.?

There was a time that these things worked as such and the
discussions/agenda were separate and confined to the purpose and
attendees (Board or Officers as designated) however that became this
homogeneous wash-rinse-repeat cycle that led to my bringing up the
thought, not a motion or otherwise general claim of lack of
productivity, that we consider having Board of Directors Strategic
Planning meetings only as/when corporate strategic planning discussions
were of the urgency or maturity to require the Board of Directors to
gather beyond discussions we had been having via email, in order to
further the strategy and vote on it.? In the meantime, the need for
input from Officers in order to exercise proper oversight and management
of the execution of the Corporation's business could easily be done via
email, either by a report to the Board from the President (preferably)
containing the same information as was presented at the "strategic
planning" meeting without the need to be on the phone for over an hour
or by individual Senior Officers emailing their monthly report to the
Board of Directors with that information.? It should be noted and it was
an important part of my pitch to the Board that the activities being
reported and in fact the state of the activities generally did and to an
extent still often do not change at a pace that required monthly, much
less bi-weekly, meetings and repetitions of the reports/activities.?
That fact too would even make the email reports rather simple and not a
burden to create or read, as they are often a repeat of status quo
except during implementation, completion, or anomalies in any of the
specific activities of the Officers.

At that time, the Board did not respond with any desire to further the
suggestion.? And so we carried on "as usual".

Since my suggestion and the choice not to pursue it at the time were not
documented further than the Board of Directors mailing list where I
believe I posted it in addition to the mention on the call, I am sure
that the subject came as a surprise to all but the Directors involved in
those emails/discussion when I brought it up again at the annual Board
of Directors meeting in Arlington.? At that time I simply re-stated a
summary of what I had said six (or so) months prior to the annual
meeting when we briefly discussed the item.?
It was in that discussion as well as when I presented my thought to the
other Directors in 2019 that I said, in my opinion, that the meetings
were unproductive IN TERMS OF THE INTENTION THAT THEY BE ABOUT STRATEGIC
PLANNING FOR THE CORPORATION, BECAUSE THERE WERE NO SUCH STRATEGY
DISCUSSIONS HAPPENING ON A MONTHLY BASIS AND THE REPORTS ON OFFICER
ACTIVITY COULD BE HANDLED OTHERWISE. Emphasis added to bring back the
context that was conveniently missing from other statements of this case.?

The outcome at the annual meeting was in agreement with looking at the
frequency and necessity of online/telephonic Board of Director meetings
rather than the regularly scheduled (and in my opinion) essentially
group gathering of everybody who showed up to rehash current
activities.? To the best of my recollection, it was never said at the
annual meeting that Board of Director Strategic Planning meetings could
not or should not happen.? Nor, to the best of my recollection, was it
said in that discussion of my point about the meetings that they were
meaningless or a waste of time beyond the implication of such in the
specific sense of the meeting purpose because of the lack of strategy to
discuss.

Since then, the Directors have chosen to go with the guidance that
meetings called by the mechanism in our bylaws is what determines the
frequency of the Board of Directors online/telephonic meetings.? The
President is charged with determining the need and frequency of Senior
Officer meetings and that has always been the case as far back as my
tenure as an Officer, and I do not take any exception to that as a
Director nor do I feel compelled to push the President to have such
meetings either as a Director or an Officer.? I stand by my thoughts of
a year ago and at the annual meeting as far as email reports to the
Board of Directors.

I hope this clears things up in regard to the history of the idea for
the frequency and purpose of Board of Directors gatherings and the
perception that they are or should be held monthly.? It is solely up to
the President and the Board of Directors to determine that as I am sure
was done in the past and is being done now.???

On another note, I also expressed strong support for the AREx program
during the March meeting.? It's funny how what I say or do is
conveniently added, altered, or omitted when it serves the personal
interest of individuals.? Part of being a "public figure" I guess.
And so it goes...

Jerry Buxton, N?JY



From k0jm.mark at gmail.com  Sun Jul  5 00:00:00 2020
From: k0jm.mark at gmail.com (Mark Johns, K0JM)
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2020 19:00:00 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] ANS-187 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletins
Message-ID: <CADDbS5CmQturyh52diaqp6GjO0y-0xJx3oeJbcUhxQL1R_=jTw@mail.gmail.com>

AMSAT NEWS SERVICE
ANS-187

The AMSAT News Service bulletins are a free, weekly news and infor-
mation service of AMSAT, The Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation. ANS
publishes news related to Amateur Radio in Space including reports on
the activities of a worldwide group of Amateur Radio operators who
share an active interest in designing, building, launching and commun-
icating through analog and digital Amateur Radio satellites.

The news feed on http://www.amsat.org publishes news of Amateur
Radio in Space as soon as our volunteers can post it.

Please send any amateur satellite news or reports to:
ans-editor at amsat.org

You can sign up for free e-mail delivery of the AMSAT News Service
Bulletins via the ANS List; to join this list see:
http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/ans

In this edition:

* Successful Launch of BY70-2 With FM-to-Codec2 Transponder
* AMSAT Responds to Allegations of Unauthorized Legal Expenses
* New Satellite Distance Records Set
* VUCC Awards-Endorsements for July 2020
* Virginia Air and Space Center Discontinues KE4ZXW Demo Station
* AMSAT 2020 Board of Directors Election Upcoming
* CAS-6 Becomes TO-108, Added to AMSAT TLE Distribution
* San Diego Microwave Group Discusses ARISS Possibilities
* ARISS News
* Upcoming Satellite Operations
* Hamfests, Conventions, Maker Faires, and Other Events
* Satellite Shorts From All Over


SB SAT @ AMSAT $ANS-187.01
ANS-187 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletins

AMSAT News Service Bulletin 187.01
>From AMSAT HQ KENSINGTON, MD.
DATE 2020 July 05
To All RADIO AMATEURS
BID: $ANS-187.01


Successful Launch of BY70-2 With FM-to-Codec2 Transponder

Wei Mingchaun, BG2BHC, reports on Twitter that BY70-2 was launched on
July 3 at 03:10z from Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center on a CZ-4B launch
vehicle. BY70-2 will serve as a replacement for BY70-1, a 2U CubeSat
which launched on December 26, 2016. Due to a booster failure, BY70-1
was placed in an elliptical orbit with a low perigee and the satel-
lite's orbit decayed in February 2017.

Unlike BY70-1, which carried an FM transponder, BY70-2 carries an
FM-to-Codec2 transponder similar to the ones on board LO-90 and
Taurus-1. More information about working this type of transponder can
be found in an article entitled "Digital Voice on Amateur Satellites:
Experiences with LilacSat-OSCAR 90" by Paul Stoetzer, N8HM, in the
January/February 2019 issue of The AMSAT Journal. The article can also
be found on the AMSAT website at https://tinyurl.com/ANS-166-BY70-2.

BY70-2 is in a sun-synchronous orbit with an altitude of approximately
500 km. As a replacement, the satellite is sharing BY70-1's IARU coord-
ination and ITU API notification. The uplink frequency is 145.920 MHz
and the downlink frequency is 436.200 MHz.

[ANS thanks Wei Mingchaun, BG2BHC, for the above information]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

         Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, the AMSAT office
    is closed until further notice. For details, please visit
  https://www.amsat.org/amsat-office-closed-until-further-notice/

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

AMSAT Responds to Allegations of Unauthorized Legal Expenses

The Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT) has been made aware of
public comments alleging financial mismanagement in the form of
?unauthorized? legal expenditures. AMSAT takes these allegations very
seriously and in full disclosure, has investigated these claims for
many months.

AMSAT?s corporate records give a full accounting of all expenditures
and are provided to its Directors upon request, in compliance with our
governing documents and law of the District of Columbia (D.C.) Our
office remains closed due to COVID-19, where those documents reside.
Furthermore, AMSAT complies with IRS rules for 501(c)(3) disclosure of
public financial documents, such as the Form 990 available on the
AMSAT website. Financial review and accounting services from a third-
party firm of Certified Public Accountants are utilized by the
corporation to ensure governance to best practice and law.

The Corporation vehemently denies false statements alleging
?unauthorized? expenditures.

On behalf of AMSAT,

Clayton Coleman, W5PFG
President

[ANS thanks Clayton Coleman, W5PFG, AMSAT President, for the above
information]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

New Satellite Distance Records Set

Two  new distance records have been established in the past week! New
records are added regularly to the AMSAT Satellite Distance Records
page: https://amsat.org/satellite-dist

J?r?me LeCuyer, F4DXV, and Vladimir Vassiljev, R9LR, have claimed the
distance record on TO-108 (CAS-6) with a 4,458 km QSO on 28-Jun-2020
at 10:11 UTC between JN04ft91dd in France and MO27qf72nd in Russia.
Congratulations to J?r?me and Vladimir!

Also, congratulations to Alain Combelles, TR8CA, and Philippe Chateau,
EA4NF, for a new AMSAT distance record on the CAS-4A Satellite on
27-Jun-2020 at 13:30 UTC. The contact was completed between IN80fl in
Spain and JJ40ql in Gabon.

These are the latest in a series of new records set over the past few
months, including:
EO-88 ? 4,086 km. F4DXV in JN04iu <> VO1FOG in GN37in.
  02-Apr-2020 at 23:20 UTC.
PO-101 (FM) ? 5,128 km.  EA4SG in IN80cp77em<> R9LR in MO27qf72nd.
  06-May-2020 at 23:03 UTC.
RS-44 ? 8,357 km. W5CBF in EM30jf35qi <> DL4EA in JN48ko94cw.
  26-May-2020
AO-92 (L/V) ? 4,202 km. OA4/XQ3SA in FH17lv <> XE1MEX in EK08mu.
  03-Jun-2020 at 04:07 UTC.
AO-27 ? 5,682 km. E21EJC in OK03fp <> R9LR in MO27qf.
  09-Jun-2020 at 23:45 UTC
XW-2B ? 4,978 km. KE9AJ in DM79iq47 <> FG8OJ in FK96ig17.
  20-Jun-2020 at 11:14 UTC.

Congratulations to all of these operators for their patience and their
operating skill.

[ANS thanks Paul Stoetzer, N8HM, AMSAT Executive Vice-President, for
the above information]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

     Need new satellite antennas? Purchase Arrows, Alaskan Arrows,
    and M2 LEO-Packs from the AMSAT Store. When you purchase through
           AMSAT, a portion of the proceeds goes towards
                  Keeping Amateur Radio in Space.
           https://amsat.org/product-category/hardware/

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

VUCC Awards-Endorsements for July 2020

Here are the endorsements and new VUCC Satellite Awards issued by the
ARRL for the period June 1, 2020 through July 1, 2020.
Congratulations to all those who made the list this month!

CALL     June    July

N0JE     637     652
WD9EWK (DM43)     600     612
NS3L     551     575
KI7UNJ   510     527
AD0HJ    425     450
KE8FZT   400     428
AA4QE    305     408
K5IX     375     402
ND0C     346     377
KC9UQR   275     301
WA9JBQ   275     300
N4YHC    250     270
W4DTA    261     263
KA9P     212     259
KS1G     170     233
KE0WPA   200     229
VU2LBW   114     200
N3CAL    100     160
K7TEJ    102     126
N7ZO     New     116
AC9O     New     108
DJ3GZ    New     108
WD9EWK (DM45)  100     106
K3HPA    New     102
WA9WUD   New     102
KI5HHK   New     101
N8URE    New     101
KD9NGV   New     100
KP4RV    New     100
W8LR     New     100


If you find errors or omissions. please contact me off-list at W5RKN
[at] W5RKN.com and I'll revise the announcement. This list was develop-
ed by comparing the ARRL .pdf listings for the two months. It's a vis-
ual comparison so omissions are possible. Apologies if your call was
not mentioned. Thanks to all those who are roving to grids that are
rarely on the birds. They are doing most of the work!

[ANS thanks Ron Parsons, W5RKN, for the above information]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Virginia Air and Space Center Discontinues KE4ZXW Demo Station

The Virginia Air and Space Center in Hampton,Virginia has ended its
twenty-five year relationship with the KE4ZXW Amateur Radio Demonstra-
tion Station. Robert Griesmer, Executive Director and CEO of the Vir-
ginia Air and Space Center has directed that the KE4ZXW Amateur Radio
Demonstration Station located at the Virginia Air and Space Center
(VASC) be disassembled and removed from the Center by June 30.

In his June 5,2020, update Mr. Griesmer advised the following to the
KE4ZXW group : ?I am writing to you to inform you that, after careful
consideration, we have decided to discontinue the Ham Radio Station Ex-
hibit effective July 1st upon the re-opening of the Center.? Randy
Grigg, WB4KZI, president of the Amateur Radio group, thanked the volun-
teers who have supported and operated the station for the last 25 years.

The station has spent the last quarter of a century demonstrating  the
use of Amateur Radio, its applications as a STEM Activity, communica-
tions skills  and communications through amateur satellites to school
groups. The station also made contacts to the International Space Sta-
tion.

The KE4ZXW Amateur Radio station's equipment has found a new home with
K4KDJ, the Virginia Tech Amateur Radio Association in Blacksburg, Va.

[ANS thanks ARRL for the above information]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

AMSAT 2020 Board of Directors Election Upcoming

The nomination period for this year's AMSAT Board of Directors
election ended June 15. The following candidates have been found to
have their membership in good standing and their nomination
credentials in order:

Howard DeFelice, AB2S
Mark Hammond, N8MH
Jeff Johns, WE4B
Robert McGwier, N4HY
Bruce Paige, KK5DO
Paul Stoetzer, N8HM

This year, AMSAT will be electing three voting members of the Board
of Directors. These will go to the three candidates receiving the
highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two alternates
chosen, based on the next highest number of votes received.

Further details regarding the mechanics of the election will appear in
ANS in the near future. Ballots will be mailed to the AMSAT membership
by July 15th based on a membership list that will be generated as early
as July 1. Members are encouraged to use the AMSAT Membership
Portal at launch.amsat.org to verify that their membership is in good
standing and their mailing address is correct.

[ANS thanks Brennan Price, N4QX, AMSAT Secretary, for the above
information]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

CAS-6 Becomes TO-108, Confusion Ensues

At the request of CAMSAT and the CAS-6 team, Drew Glasbrenner, KO4MA,
AMSAT VP Operations & OSCAR Number Administrator announced last week
that CAS-6 (TQ-1) would receive the official designation of TQ-OSCAR
108 (TO-108).

Since that designation, TO-108 was added to the AMSAT Live OSCAR Satel-
lite Status Page at https://www.amsat.org/status/  However, an entry
for CAS-6 also remains on that page. Further, AMSAT TLE distributions
continue to list the satellite as CAS-6 (NORAD Cat ID 44881).

Operators should be aware that the designations CAS-6 and TO-108 both
refer to the same satellite, and should be on the lookout for changes
in the naming on websites and in TLE distribution sets. It many take a
week or two before consistent naming filters through all systems.

Frequencies for the intended radio amatuer mission are:
? CW Telemetry Beacon: 145.910 MHz
? AX.25 4.8kbps GMSK Telemetry: 145.890 MHz
? U/V Linear Transponder Downlink: 145.925 MHz, 20 kHz bandwidth
? U/V Linear Transponder Uplink: 435.280 MHz, Inverted

Operator reports indicate that the transponder is active only for brief
intervals of about 2 seconds, spaced approximately 5 seconds apart. With
patience, and quick transmissions, QSOs have been completed.

[ANS thanks Mark Johns, K0JM, for the above information]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

    Want to fly the colors on your own grid expedition?
            Get your AMSAT car flag and other neat stuff
                    from our Zazzle store!
        25% of the purchase price of each product goes
            towards Keeping Amateur Radio in Space
              https://www.zazzle.com/amsat_gear

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

San Diego Microwave Group Discusses ARISS Possibilities

Participants in the San Diego Microwave Group's (SDMG) 29 June 2020
Zoom meetup discussed the possibility of the AREx broadband digital
microwave design being potentially deployed on the International Space
Station (ISS).

Since the project has focused heavily on high earth orbit, geostation-
ary orbit, and the lunar opportunity with Gateway, the challenges of
low earth orbit (ISS) now need to be addressed. This will be an ongoing
process. Here's what participants recommended at SDMG:

Since there are LEO constellations up to and including Ka band, the
tracking and doppler have been done. It's just a question of learning
the requirements, design patterns, limitations, and techniques.

Since the project already incorporates the near-space communications
recommendations from Consultative Committee for Space Data Systems
(CCSDS), little has to be done in that regard.

HamTV on ISS is at 2.4 GHz, which while lower than the projected 5 GHz
and 10 GHz, has all the other aspects of broadband digital. There is
plenty to be learned from those experiments, and meetings are being
set up to begin to collaborate with the principals of HamTV on deeply
appreciated advice & next steps.

There was strong advice to eliminate antenna pointing. Use of an anten-
na system in space and on the ground that does not require tracking
would dramatically increase adoption. With Adaptive Coding and Modula-
tion, all sorts of systems can be accommodated. However, a ground sta-
tion that does track can use a directional antenna with a lot more
gain, and get a much higher bitrate, while a station with a 120 degree
field of view would get a lower bitrate, but would not have to track
at LEO. This needs thorough link budgeting.

There are several link budgets in Jupyter Notebook in progress at
https://github.com/phase4space/payload-dmt  Others interested in help-
ing here are most welcome.

Testing for human rated spacecraft incurs a substantial increase in
engineering, paperwork, and time requirements. Putting the equipment
outside instead of inside does not eliminate the testing requirements.
This is going to require advice/direction from ARISS.

Space heritage of this type, where equipment is an external payload
only requiring power, makes hosted payload options easier to negotiate.
There are 5-6 GEO missions going up in the next 3 years that could be
targeted.

Doppler is a factor here, and SDMG participants received strong recom-
mendations about talking with particular ARISS team members with exper-
ience. SDMG will be learning from and incorporating their advice in the
very near future.

[ANS thanks Michelle Thompson, W5NYV, Member of the AMSAT Board of
Directors, for the above report]

--------------------------------------------------------------------

ARISS NEWS

Amateurs and others around the world may listen in on contacts between
amateurs operating in schools and allowing students to interact with
astronauts and cosmonauts aboard the International Space Station. The
downlink frequency on which to listen is 145.800 MHz worldwide.

Scheduled contacts and events:
   Don Bosco Haacht Technisch en Beroepsonderwijs, Haacht, Belgium,
   Multi-point telebridge via AB1OC. (A multi-point telebridge contact
   means that each student will be on the telebridge from their own
   home.) The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be NA1SS, and the
   scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy, KF5KDR. The contact is go for
   Friday, July 10 at 10:49:51 UTC (27 degrees maximum elevation).

ARISS is very aware of the impact that COVID-19 is having on schools
and the public in general. As such, we may have last minute cancella-
tions or postponements of school contacts.

[ANS thanks Charlie Sufana, AJ9N, one of the ARISS operation team men-
tors for the above information]


+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

    AMSAT, along with our ARISS partners, is developing an amateur
    radio package, including two-way communication capability, to
            be carried on-board Gateway in lunar orbit.

   Support AMSAT's projects today at https://www.amsat.org/donate/

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

Upcoming Satellite Operations

Quick Hits:

Email from @KS1G: K2B  (VA, me) and K2F (MD) are both on sats for the
13 Colonies event through Tuesday evening. K2F told me K2A (NY) is
also on. He will also post schedules to twitter!!!

DN08, 7/4 & 7/5,
@KC7JPC, John is heading out roving. Yippeeeeee!!!!

DN18 / DN28, 7/11:
KI7UXT and KC7JPC

EM57 & EM67 (Saturday 7/11 & 7/12)
N4DCW may also stop in EM58, passes posted on his QRZ page.

FN45 & FN46,
VE2FUA, 7/12 & 7/13: Chris is heading out to a little known (to rovers
at least) called Maine. Might want to get him while he is there.

FM13 & FM03, 7/12 & 7/13,
WZ4M is heading out Holiday Style    <- Updated Grids

EN20/30 Line, July 28-31,
@KX9X : Sean is moving quickly towards his VUCC/R award by heading out
again for two more grids. Watch his Twitter for details.

Major Roves:

@KM4LAO is heading out on 7/3 ? 7/9 through Texas, Colorado and Kansas.
FMs for sure and maybe linears. The tentative schedule is as follows:
7/3 (evening) ? 7/4: DM95 7/5: DM86/96 gridline and possibly DM85/95
line as well 7/6: DM87/88 or DM97/98 gridline based on family schedule
7/6-7/9: DM87  Details will be posted on Twitter @KM4Ruth

@N5BO is heading out into the Murder Hornet territory:
    EM43/44 on 7/3 Starting at 15:05
    EM53/54 on 7/4 Starting at 14:54
    EM52 on 7/5 Starting at 16:37
    Click here for pass scheduled and frequencies

@WY7AA is heading out again!!! Starting July 13th
    DN63 (Some Day passes)
    DN64 fir a few days of fly fishing
    then DN55 ? DN68, and getting home on July 31st?.

** Postponed ** DL88: Ron (@AD0DX) and Doug (@N6UA) are making another
run at the elusive DL88 in Big Bend National Park, TX. As we know they
tried this grid back in March, and due to the mud couldn?t get to the
grid, so never ones to quit, off they go again. Today the tentative
date is Monday July 6th, 2020. They will be using the K5Z call sign.
More information is available at the K5Z QRZ Page.

Please submit any additions or corrections to Ke0pbr (at) gmail.com

[ANS thanks Paul Overnfor, KE0PBR, AMSAT rover page manager, for the
above information]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Hamfests, Conventions, Maker Faires, and Other Events

Want to see AMSAT in action or learn more about amateur radio in space?
AMSAT Ambassadors provide presentations, demonstrate communicating
through amateur satellites, and host information tables at club meet-
ings, hamfests, conventions, maker faires, and other events.

Due to COVID-19, many hamfest and events around the United States have
been cancelled or postponed.  While we make every effort to ensure the
information contained below is correct, there may be some that we
missed. We wish all of you safekeeping and hope to be at a hamfest
near you soon.

Current schedule:
  * Shelby NC Hamfest (Contact N4HF for info or if you want to help.)
  Phil Jenkins, N4HF, is planning to present a forum ? and set-up/man
  an info table ? at the Shelby NC Hamfest Friday/Saturday Sept 4 & 5.
  (the ?fest runs Sept 4-6, but he?ll probably only be there Friday
  and Saturday). Demos possible if additional volunteers step up.

A copy of the AMSAT hamfest brochure is available for download from:
https://bit.ly/2ygVFmV  This color brochure is designed to be printed
double-sided and folded into a tri-fold handout.

To include your upcoming AMSAT presentation and/or demonstration,
please send an email to ambassadors (at) amsat (dot) org.

[ANS thanks Robert Bankston, KE4AL, AMSAT VP-User Services for the
above information]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Satellite Shorts From All Over

+ There has been further work on trying FT8 for EME, this time on 1296.
  It turns out that, contrary to the original news item, the Doppler
  spread on the lower bands is not an issue, since the energy distribu-
  tion of the EME signal is mainly concentrated in a much narrower
  spectrum than the maximum total Doppler spread. This means that it
  can work probably with little degradation on bands up to and includ-
  ing 1296, under most circumstances. For a writeup of this work please
  see http://bobatkins.com/radio/FT8_EME_1296.html
  (ANS thanks Charles Suckling, G3WDG, via Southgate ARC, for the above
  information)

+ Two ISS astronauts, including newly-arrived Bob Behnken, KE5GGX, per-
  formed a spacewalk to replace batteries on the outside of the station
  (and dropped a handheld mirror which promptly became the newest piece
  of space debris). (ANS thanks The Orbital Index for the above infor-
  mation)

+ Hackster recently featured a nice little project using a Raspberry Pi
  to display the current location of the International Space Station
  (ISS) and its trajectory over time, using an ePaper Display, Proto-
  Stax Enclosure and some Python code. See https://bit.ly/2Ao9HVa
  (ANS thanks to hackster.io and JoAnne Maenpaa, K9JKM, for the above
  information)

+ The Space Science Center at Morehead State University (Kentucky) is
  accepting applications for a full-time position as a Space Systems
  Engineer ? Software Engineer. For details and to apply, see:
  https://moreheadstate.peopleadmin.com/postings/9284
  Please note: The preferred closing date has passed, but they are
  still accepting applications! (ANS thanks Morehead State and JoAnne
  Maenpaa, K9JKM, for the above information)

+ The Benchmark Space Systems team is excited to sponsor and present a
  complimentary ?Propulsion Systems 101? workshop Wednesday July 8 at
  1:00 p.m. EST (1700z) The workshop will provide satellite integrators
  and constellation developers with a broad overview of propulsion
  technologies and their associated operational capabilities. Register
  at: https://www.lrainstitute.com/event_post/0720-propulsion-systems/
  (ANS thanks Benchmark Space Systems and JoAnne Maenpaa, K9JKM, for
  the above information)

+


---------------------------------------------------------------------

/EX

In addition to regular membership, AMSAT offers membership in the
President's Club. Members of the President's Club, as sustaining
donors to AMSAT Project Funds, will be eligible to receive addi-
tional benefits. Application forms are available from the AMSAT
Office.

Primary and secondary school students are eligible for membership
at one-half the standard yearly rate. Post-secondary school students
enrolled in at least half time status shall be eligible for the stu-
dent rate for a maximum of 6 post-secondary years in this status.
Contact Martha at the AMSAT Office for additional student membership
information.

73 and Remember to help keep amateur radio in space,
This week's ANS Editor, Mark D. Johns, K0JM

k0jm at amsat dot org

From peternyy at verizon.net  Sun Jul  5 22:03:30 2020
From: peternyy at verizon.net (Peter)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2020 18:03:30 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] W2JV
References: <C73E1AD15858416D8AFB656444CBD377.ref@DESKTOP8A7S6MK>
Message-ID: <C73E1AD15858416D8AFB656444CBD377@DESKTOP8A7S6MK>

Hi
Just checking
W2JV

From marinesvcs at gmail.com  Mon Jul  6 00:58:04 2020
From: marinesvcs at gmail.com (Paul F. Merrill)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2020 17:58:04 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Satellite Danger Zone
Message-ID: <CAM42373862wOi0kH+Rme737iUPGtXxJNcoS4hFJTrJGBHddMMg@mail.gmail.com>

https://youtu.be/w-nfF7bK34Y

From py5lf at falautomation.com.br  Mon Jul  6 13:39:18 2020
From: py5lf at falautomation.com.br (PY5LF)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 10:39:18 -0300
Subject: [amsat-bb] Satellite Danger Zone
In-Reply-To: <CAM42373862wOi0kH+Rme737iUPGtXxJNcoS4hFJTrJGBHddMMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM42373862wOi0kH+Rme737iUPGtXxJNcoS4hFJTrJGBHddMMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAy53m7m_XUqYKQKqxR3RuEebGC=KWBGikt3nMQTM2DHOj0FZw@mail.gmail.com>

Right over my home ...
73

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Livre
de v?rus. www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>.
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Em dom., 5 de jul. de 2020 ?s 21:59, Paul F. Merrill via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> escreveu:

> https://youtu.be/w-nfF7bK34Y
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
*PY5LF *
*Luciano Fabricio*
*www.falautomation.com.br <http://www.falautomation.com.br>*

From aj9n at aol.com  Mon Jul  6 16:08:41 2020
From: aj9n at aol.com (aj9n at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 16:08:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-07-06 16:00
	UTC
References: <394412787.1339663.1594051721967.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <394412787.1339663.1594051721967@mail.yahoo.com>


Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-07-06 16:00 UTC

?

Quick list of scheduled contacts and events:

?

Don Bosco Haacht Technisch en Beroepsonderwijs, Haacht, Belgium, Multi-point telebridge via AB1OC 

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be NA1SS 

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR 

Contact is go for: Fri 2020-07-10 10:49:51 UTC 27 deg 

?

?

########################################################################################################################################

A multi-point telebridge contact means that each student will be on the telebridge from their own home.

*************************************************

?

ARISS is very aware of the impact that COVID-19 is having on schools and the public in general.? As such, we may have last minute cancellations or postponements of school contacts.? As always, I will try to provide everyone with near-real-time updates.? 

?

The following schools have now been postponed or cancelled due to COVID-19:? 

?

Postponed:

No additional schools 

?

Cancelled:

No additional schools

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

?

Watch for future COVID-19 related announcements here also.

?

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

?

Note, all times are approximate. ?It is recommended that you do your own 

orbital prediction?or start listening about 10 minutes before the listed 

time. 

All dates and times listed follow International Standard ISO 8601 date and 

time format YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS

?

The complete schedule page has been updated as of?2020-07-06 16:00 UTC. (***)

Here you will find a listing of all scheduled?school contacts, and 

questions, other ISS related websites, IRLP and Echolink websites, and 

instructions for any contact that may be streamed live.

?

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf 

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.txt 

?

?

The successful school list has been updated as of 2020-06-16 16:00 UTC.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/Successful_ARISS_schools.rtf 

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

?

Message to US Educators

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States) 

?

The Proposal Window of February 1, 2020 to March 31, 2020 has now closed.

?

For future proposal information and more details such as expectations, proposal guidelines and proposal form, and dates and times of Information Webinars, go to www.ariss.org.

?

Please direct any questions to?ariss.us.education at gmail.com.

?

About ARISS:

?

Amateur Radio on the International Space Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radio societies and the space agencies that support the International Space Station (ISS).? In the United States, sponsors are the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio Relay League (ARRL), the ISS National Lab and National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEAM) topics by organizing scheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS and students in classrooms or public forms. Before and during these radio contacts, students, educators, parents, and communities learn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. For more information, see www.ariss.org.

?

********************************************************************************

ARISS Contact Applications (Europe, Africa and the Middle East)

?

Schools and Youth organizations in Europe, Africa and the Middle East interested in setting up an ARISS radio contact with an astronaut on board the International Space Station are invited to submit an application from September to October and from February to April.

Please refer to details and the application form at www.ariss-eu.org/school-contacts.? Applications should be addressed by email to:? school.selection.manager at ariss-eu.org

?

ARISS Contact Applications (Canada, Central and South America, Asia and Australia and Russia)

?

Organizations outside the United States can apply for an ARISS contact by filling out an application.? Please direct questions to the appropriate regional representative listed below. If your country is not specifically listed, send your questions to the nearest ARISS Region listed. If you are unsure which address to use, please send your question to the ARISS-Canada representative; they will forward your question to the appropriate coordinator.

?

For the application, go to:? https://www.ariss.org/ariss-application.html.

ARISS-Canada and the Americas, except USA: Steve McFarlane, VE3TBD email to: ve3tbd at gmail.com

ARISS-Japan, Asia, Pacific and Australia: Satoshi Yasuda, 7M3TJZ email to: ariss at iaru-r3.org, Japan Amateur Radio League (JARL) https://www.jarl.org/

ARISS-Russia: Soyuz Radioljubitelei Rossii (SRR) https://srr.ru/

?

?

******************************************************************************

ARISS is always glad to receive listener reports for the above contacts.? ARISS thanks everyone in advance for their assistance.? Feel free to send your reports to aj9n at amsat.org or aj9n at aol.com.

?

Listen for the ISS on the downlink of 145.8? MHz.

?

*******************************************************************************

?

All ARISS contacts are made via the Kenwood radio unless otherwise noted.

?

*******************************************************************************


Several of you have sent me emails asking about the RAC ARISS website and 
not being able to get in. ?That has now been changed to https://www.ariss.org/

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

****************************************************************************

Looking for something new to do?? How about receiving DATV from the ISS?? Please note that the HamTV system has been brought back to earth for troubleshooting.? Please monitor ARISS-EU or ARISS-ON for the very latest news on the troubleshooting efforts.? 

?

If interested, then please go to the ARISS-EU website for complete details.? Look for the buttons indicating Ham Video.???????????? 

?

http://www.ariss-eu.org/

?

If you need some assistance, ARISS mentor Kerry N6IZW, might be able to provide some insight.? Contact Kerry at kbanke at sbcglobal.net

?

?

The HamTV webpage:? https://www.amsat-on.be/hamtv-summary/

?

?

****************************************************************************
ARISS congratulations the following mentors who have now mentored over 100 schools: 

?

Francesco IK?WGF with 140

Satoshi 7M3TJZ with 138 

Sergey RV3DR with 133 

Gaston ON4WF with 123

?

****************************************************************************

The webpages listed below were all reviewed for accuracy. Out of date 

webpages were removed, and new ones have been added.? If there are additional 

ARISS websites I need to know about, please let me know.

?

?

?

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school events is 1390. 

Each school counts as 1 event.?????????????????????????????????? 

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school contacts is 1323. 

Each contact may have multiple schools sharing the same time slot.

Total number of ARISS supported terrestrial contacts is 48. 

?

A complete year by year breakdown of the contacts may be found in the 

file.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf

?

Please feel free to contact me if more detailed statistics are needed.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



The following US states and entities have never had an ARISS contact:
South Dakota, Wyoming, American?Samoa, Guam, Northern Marianas Islands, and the Virgin Islands.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

?

QSL information may be found at:

https://www.ariss.org/qsl-cards.html

?

ISS callsigns: DP?ISS, IR?ISS, NA1SS, OR4ISS, RS?ISS

?

****************************************************************************



Frequency chart for packet, voice, and crossband repeater modes showing 

Doppler correction as of 2005-07-29 04:00 UTC

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/ISS_frequencies_and_Doppler_correction.rtf



Check out the Zoho reports of the ARISS contacts

?

https://reports.zoho.com/ZDBDataSheetView.cc?DBID=412218000000020415

****************************************************************************

?

Exp. 62 now on orbit 

Chris Cassidy KF5KDR

Anatoli Ivanishin

Ivan Vagner

?

SpaceX-Demo2 now on orbit 

Bob Behnken KE5GGX

Doug Hurley

?

****************************************************************************

73,

Charlie?Sufana AJ9N
One of the ARISS operation team mentors

?

?

?

?

?

?

?



From kk5do at arrl.net  Tue Jul  7 01:43:08 2020
From: kk5do at arrl.net (Bruce)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:43:08 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] GridMaster Award
References: <c1fa30c3-7338-05c0-e361-0d6f835f2a48.ref@arrl.net>
Message-ID: <c1fa30c3-7338-05c0-e361-0d6f835f2a48@arrl.net>

Congratulations to Kevin, N4UFO, for earning AMSAT GridMaster Award #12.

-- 

Bruce Paige, KK5DO
                      
AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
AMSAT Board Member 2016-2020
   
ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
           
Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT*
Also live streaming MP3 at http://www.amsatnet.com
Podcast at http://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes
               
Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News
http://www.arrl.org

AMSAT on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/amsat


From w7lrd at comcast.net  Tue Jul  7 05:13:51 2020
From: w7lrd at comcast.net (73 Bob W7LRD)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 22:13:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [amsat-bb] G5500 control switch
Message-ID: <171209593.21601.1594098831951@connect.xfinity.com>

My G5500 control unit down switch failed.  I bought a switch from Yaesu.  They said the paddle for the switch is not available.  I removed the switch (still wired), and the paddle has a rivet holding it to the switch.  Removing the paddle is problem.  So- does anyone have the complete switch with paddle in their junque box??  If not I can always jury rig a spdt momentary switch.  I thought I'd try a bit of begging first!  Any help out there?
73 Bob W7LRD

From clintbradford at mac.com  Tue Jul  7 14:09:12 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 07:09:12 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA Malfeasance?
Message-ID: <81CD4871-2BE5-4293-9099-3E3AADF4D7E2@mac.com>

People throwing out large dollar amounts ... claiming mystery and underhandedness ...

I see all this as an $803.50 issue.

Take those fees paid by duly-appointed AMSAT-NA officials, less the forgivable $17K CARES grant, 
and the true outlay is only $803.50.

Unrelated categories? Sure. But sure looks like AMSAT-NA is takin' care of business. 

The only current candidate who has shown total respect for amateur radio and is dedicated to making 
it more enjoyable for all is Bruce Paige, KK5DO.

From w2ev at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  7 15:07:24 2020
From: w2ev at yahoo.com (Ev Tupis)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 15:07:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] FM Satellite Chirp File
References: <436832759.1743267.1594134444018.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <436832759.1743267.1594134444018@mail.yahoo.com>

Has anyone posted a Chirp file that includes proper parameters for the FM voice satellites (assuming that a separate channel pair is programmed to compensate for Doppler during passes)?

I'd appreciate being pointed to a link to it, if so.

Ev, W2EV

From k8bl at ameritech.net  Tue Jul  7 15:11:34 2020
From: k8bl at ameritech.net (Bob Liddy (K8BL))
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 15:11:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA Malfeasance?
In-Reply-To: <81CD4871-2BE5-4293-9099-3E3AADF4D7E2@mac.com>
References: <81CD4871-2BE5-4293-9099-3E3AADF4D7E2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1059551836.3732861.1594134694717@mail.yahoo.com>

 Why do people post items on a HAM RADIO BBS and?NOT use their CALL LETTERS?? Very rude! Why would?someone make statements and keep themselves unknown??It could be Spam for all we know!!!? Not signed.de? Bob? K8BL

    On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 10:09:36 AM EDT, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 People throwing out large dollar amounts ... claiming mystery and underhandedness ...

I see all this as an $803.50 issue.

Take those fees paid by duly-appointed AMSAT-NA officials, less the forgivable $17K CARES grant, 
and the true outlay is only $803.50.

Unrelated categories? Sure. But sure looks like AMSAT-NA is takin' care of business. 

The only current candidate who has shown total respect for amateur radio and is dedicated to making 
it more enjoyable for all is Bruce Paige, KK5DO.
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From w5rkn at w5rkn.com  Tue Jul  7 19:16:28 2020
From: w5rkn at w5rkn.com (Ronald Parsons)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 14:16:28 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] SO-50 carrier frequency shift
Message-ID: <CAJst_RRbh3PLSO1v+QqxHe-FAfBBWg0Bz9R2jLqHfQPKt77X6w@mail.gmail.com>

On the SO-50 1900Z pass I noticed the carrier was shifting down about 4 kHz
randomly.
Has this been noticed lately?
Ron W5RKN

From johnbrier at gmail.com  Tue Jul  7 19:24:41 2020
From: johnbrier at gmail.com (John Brier)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 15:24:41 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] SO-50 carrier frequency shift
In-Reply-To: <CAJst_RRbh3PLSO1v+QqxHe-FAfBBWg0Bz9R2jLqHfQPKt77X6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJst_RRbh3PLSO1v+QqxHe-FAfBBWg0Bz9R2jLqHfQPKt77X6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALn0fKPeMc6fJvggmtZz_D=inFmMFFL0c_rpDAt8yHX0DHOzng@mail.gmail.com>

I have heard before that this happens from time to time. I don't think
it's a new occurrence.

73, John Brier KG4AKV

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 3:19 PM Ronald Parsons via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> On the SO-50 1900Z pass I noticed the carrier was shifting down about 4 kHz
> randomly.
> Has this been noticed lately?
> Ron W5RKN
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From royldean at gmail.com  Tue Jul  7 19:26:46 2020
From: royldean at gmail.com (Roy Dean)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 15:26:46 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] SO-50 carrier frequency shift
Message-ID: <CADGPg2uafMkbC74gczkGHC1yVW2qyQZNGZ0XCNUYxJZ0bz6oyA@mail.gmail.com>

>
> On the SO-50 1900Z pass I noticed the carrier was shifting down about 4 kHz
> randomly.
> Has this been noticed lately?
> Ron W5RKN


https://network.satnogs.org/observations/2506933/

Not much to go on, but it sure does look like the carrier is ~4kHz low
right at the start of the observation.  I'll look at some other
observations.....

--Roy
K3RLD

From royldean at gmail.com  Tue Jul  7 19:31:00 2020
From: royldean at gmail.com (Roy Dean)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 15:31:00 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] SO-50 carrier frequency shift
In-Reply-To: <CADGPg2uafMkbC74gczkGHC1yVW2qyQZNGZ0XCNUYxJZ0bz6oyA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADGPg2uafMkbC74gczkGHC1yVW2qyQZNGZ0XCNUYxJZ0bz6oyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADGPg2uEEWYP4rqicSSYu_c+swby1b82Z0iTAyKv25hDaX3UpA@mail.gmail.com>

https://network.satnogs.org/observations/2501117/
https://network.satnogs.org/observations/2500030/
https://network.satnogs.org/observations/2499497/
https://network.satnogs.org/observations/2487910/

Yep, went through the last 50 observations and there were a bunch of them
that had this frequency shift.   These are some of the worst.

--Roy
K3RLD

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 3:26 PM Roy Dean <royldean at gmail.com> wrote:

> On the SO-50 1900Z pass I noticed the carrier was shifting down about 4 kHz
>> randomly.
>> Has this been noticed lately?
>> Ron W5RKN
>
>
> https://network.satnogs.org/observations/2506933/
>
> Not much to go on, but it sure does look like the carrier is ~4kHz low
> right at the start of the observation.  I'll look at some other
> observations.....
>
> --Roy
> K3RLD
>

From kd6yam at amsat.org  Tue Jul  7 19:37:22 2020
From: kd6yam at amsat.org (Martin Cooper)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 12:37:22 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] FM Satellite Chirp File
In-Reply-To: <436832759.1743267.1594134444018@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <436832759.1743267.1594134444018.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<436832759.1743267.1594134444018@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAGEtHiLCPaa=Ribib1JrNOZZgUkCd+xV6jFx4UuVy6ingopkPA@mail.gmail.com>

Someone filed a ticket against Chirp for this back in 2017, and attached a
sample stock config file. It has not (yet) been applied, and I'm sure the
sample is outdated by now, but it might be a starting point.

https://chirp.danplanet.com/issues/4573

Martin.
KD6YAM

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 8:28 AM Ev Tupis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Has anyone posted a Chirp file that includes proper parameters for the FM
> voice satellites (assuming that a separate channel pair is programmed to
> compensate for Doppler during passes)?
>
> I'd appreciate being pointed to a link to it, if so.
>
> Ev, W2EV
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Tue Jul  7 19:50:34 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 14:50:34 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA Malfeasance?
In-Reply-To: <1059551836.3732861.1594134694717@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <81CD4871-2BE5-4293-9099-3E3AADF4D7E2@mac.com>
	<1059551836.3732861.1594134694717@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c6fb821c-3196-576b-3992-92180561b719@pobox.com>

On 07/07/20 10:11, Bob Liddy (K8BL) via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>   Why do people post items on a HAM RADIO BBS and?NOT use their CALL LETTERS?? Very rude! Why would?someone make statements and keep themselves unknown??It could be Spam for all we know!!!? Not signed.de? Bob? K8BL

It is not a requirement to have an amateur radio license to be on 
amsat-bb, as far as I know.

http://www.arrl.org/amateur-code

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From wa4sca at gmail.com  Tue Jul  7 20:07:01 2020
From: wa4sca at gmail.com (Alan)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 15:07:01 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA Malfeasance?
In-Reply-To: <c6fb821c-3196-576b-3992-92180561b719@pobox.com>
References: <81CD4871-2BE5-4293-9099-3E3AADF4D7E2@mac.com>	<1059551836.3732861.1594134694717@mail.yahoo.com>
	<c6fb821c-3196-576b-3992-92180561b719@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <001801d6549a$2ddfd970$899f8c50$@gmail.com>

Zach,

The AMSAT Acceptable Use Policy, found here:

https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/AMSAT_AUP_061819.pdf

does state that ?All posts should include the author's first name and call sign, or full name if not currently licensed.?

Of course, failing to do so is not considered a hanging offence.  Hi Hi

73,

Alan
WA4SCA

<-----Original Message-----
<From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org] On Behalf Of Zach Metzinger via
<AMSAT-BB
<Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2020 2:51 PM
<To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
<Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA Malfeasance?
<
<On 07/07/20 10:11, Bob Liddy (K8BL) via AMSAT-BB wrote:
<>   Why do people post items on a HAM RADIO BBS and NOT use their CALL
<LETTERS?  Very rude! Why would someone make statements and keep themselves
<unknown? It could be Spam for all we know!!!  Not signed.de  Bob  K8BL
<
<It is not a requirement to have an amateur radio license to be on
<amsat-bb, as far as I know.
<
<http://www.arrl.org/amateur-code
<
<--- Zach
<N0ZGO
<_______________________________________________
<Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
<to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
<are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
<Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
<Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From zmetzing at pobox.com  Tue Jul  7 20:16:20 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 15:16:20 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA Malfeasance?
In-Reply-To: <001801d6549a$2ddfd970$899f8c50$@gmail.com>
References: <81CD4871-2BE5-4293-9099-3E3AADF4D7E2@mac.com>
	<1059551836.3732861.1594134694717@mail.yahoo.com>
	<c6fb821c-3196-576b-3992-92180561b719@pobox.com>
	<001801d6549a$2ddfd970$899f8c50$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <80be9ede-31d8-fcd3-ce32-de7d1b06a715@pobox.com>

On 07/07/20 15:07, Alan via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/AMSAT_AUP_061819.pdf
> does state that ?All posts should include the author's first name and call sign, or full name if not currently licensed.?

Hello Alan,

So, the upshot is that he forgot to include his call (if he has one). 
The From/Reply-to lines have his full name.

In any case, it might be a better policy to use honey instead of a
stick. See the paragraph before the one you quoted:

> In order to preserve a constructive environment, we insist that posts
> contain appropriate content and are respectful of the members and
> readers of the AMSAT Lists.

73,

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From clintbradford at mac.com  Tue Jul  7 20:18:22 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 13:18:22 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] CHIRP Datafile
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5940.1594150274.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.5940.1594150274.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <3967BFF9-1537-40B6-8907-4198BF6E6521@mac.com>

There is one on the SHACK AIDS page at ?

http://www.work-sat.com

A little old ? might still have ?85 on it ?

Clint K6LCS

From wa4sca at gmail.com  Tue Jul  7 20:29:35 2020
From: wa4sca at gmail.com (Alan)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 15:29:35 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA Malfeasance?
In-Reply-To: <80be9ede-31d8-fcd3-ce32-de7d1b06a715@pobox.com>
References: <81CD4871-2BE5-4293-9099-3E3AADF4D7E2@mac.com>	<1059551836.3732861.1594134694717@mail.yahoo.com>	<c6fb821c-3196-576b-3992-92180561b719@pobox.com>	<001801d6549a$2ddfd970$899f8c50$@gmail.com>
	<80be9ede-31d8-fcd3-ce32-de7d1b06a715@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <000001d6549d$5484b430$fd8e1c90$@gmail.com>

Zach,

<So, the upshot is that he forgot to include his call (if he has one).
<The From/Reply-to lines have his full name.

That was exactly my point to the OP in a slightly tongue in cheek manner, but providing a reference which many/most of the BB do not know exits.

73,

Alan
WA4SCA


<-----Original Message-----
<From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org] On Behalf Of Zach Metzinger via
<AMSAT-BB
<Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2020 3:16 PM
<To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
<Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA Malfeasance?
<
<On 07/07/20 15:07, Alan via AMSAT-BB wrote:
<> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/AMSAT_AUP_061819.pdf
<> does state that ?All posts should include the author's first name and call sign, or full name
<if not currently licensed.?
<
<Hello Alan,
<
<So, the upshot is that he forgot to include his call (if he has one).
<The From/Reply-to lines have his full name.
<
<In any case, it might be a better policy to use honey instead of a
<stick. See the paragraph before the one you quoted:
<
<> In order to preserve a constructive environment, we insist that posts
<> contain appropriate content and are respectful of the members and
<> readers of the AMSAT Lists.
<
<73,
<
<--- Zach
<N0ZGO
<_______________________________________________
<Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
<to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
<are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
<Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
<Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From johnbrier at gmail.com  Tue Jul  7 21:24:44 2020
From: johnbrier at gmail.com (John Brier)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 17:24:44 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] FM Satellite Chirp File
In-Reply-To: <CAGEtHiLCPaa=Ribib1JrNOZZgUkCd+xV6jFx4UuVy6ingopkPA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <436832759.1743267.1594134444018.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<436832759.1743267.1594134444018@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAGEtHiLCPaa=Ribib1JrNOZZgUkCd+xV6jFx4UuVy6ingopkPA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALn0fKMvw1=Z1wQ3Qi-3YgoXTzKVefF+y9oShUuLj3eHAwX4fA@mail.gmail.com>

FWIW AFAIK most/all Japanese FM only radios don't support cross-band
memories. Chinese radios tend to, I believe.

73, John Brier KG4AKV

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 3:49 PM Martin Cooper via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Someone filed a ticket against Chirp for this back in 2017, and attached a
> sample stock config file. It has not (yet) been applied, and I'm sure the
> sample is outdated by now, but it might be a starting point.
>
> https://chirp.danplanet.com/issues/4573
>
> Martin.
> KD6YAM
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 8:28 AM Ev Tupis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Has anyone posted a Chirp file that includes proper parameters for the FM
> > voice satellites (assuming that a separate channel pair is programmed to
> > compensate for Doppler during passes)?
> >
> > I'd appreciate being pointed to a link to it, if so.
> >
> > Ev, W2EV
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From w5rkn at w5rkn.com  Tue Jul  7 21:50:19 2020
From: w5rkn at w5rkn.com (Ronald Parsons)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 16:50:19 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb]  SO-50 carrier frequency shift
Message-ID: <001201d654a8$9b985920$d2c90b60$@w5rkn.com>

The link below has an image of my waterfall during part of the SO-50 pass.
The two yellow arrows show two instances of several more that occurred
during the pass. The time scale in minutes is on the right of the waterfall.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Rl0LMMIHc_By96anqySUXmLAzURtQnH-/view?usp=s
haring

 

The down-shift was about 4 kHz although it was somewhat hard to measure
accurately due to the Doppler shift causing the signal trace to bend down
and to the right on the picture.

 

Ron W5RKN

 


From n0jy at amsat.org  Tue Jul  7 23:06:26 2020
From: n0jy at amsat.org (Jerry Buxton)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 18:06:26 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA Malfeasance?
In-Reply-To: <001801d6549a$2ddfd970$899f8c50$@gmail.com>
References: <81CD4871-2BE5-4293-9099-3E3AADF4D7E2@mac.com>
	<1059551836.3732861.1594134694717@mail.yahoo.com>
	<c6fb821c-3196-576b-3992-92180561b719@pobox.com>
	<001801d6549a$2ddfd970$899f8c50$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ef44ae16-145d-4e6c-edae-12167b1d5ef2@amsat.org>

On 7/7/2020 15:07, Alan via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> is not considered a hanging offence.
No offense, but did you get a bit of a guilt trip from some of the (also
tongue in cheek) Tweets and such from the other side of the Atlantic
regarding Independence Day, or something?

Jerry Buxton, N?JY


From k7trkradio at charter.net  Tue Jul  7 23:52:15 2020
From: k7trkradio at charter.net (Ted Krempa)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 16:52:15 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA Malfeasance?
In-Reply-To: <1059551836.3732861.1594134694717@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <81CD4871-2BE5-4293-9099-3E3AADF4D7E2@mac.com>
	<1059551836.3732861.1594134694717@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <019501d654b9$a4ed8200$eec88600$@charter.net>

Bob, it's just Clint.....(no one gives a frosty crank, anyway ...it is his agenda to screw AMSAT anyway he can since he was ousted as an AMSAT Ambassador)

73, Ted
K7TRK

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org] On Behalf Of Bob Liddy (K8BL) via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2020 8:12 AM
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA Malfeasance?

 Why do people post items on a HAM RADIO BBS and NOT use their CALL LETTERS?  Very rude! Why would someone make statements and keep themselves unknown? It could be Spam for all we know!!!  Not signed.de  Bob  K8BL

    On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 10:09:36 AM EDT, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 People throwing out large dollar amounts ... claiming mystery and underhandedness ...

I see all this as an $803.50 issue.

Take those fees paid by duly-appointed AMSAT-NA officials, less the forgivable $17K CARES grant, 
and the true outlay is only $803.50.

Unrelated categories? Sure. But sure looks like AMSAT-NA is takin' care of business. 

The only current candidate who has shown total respect for amateur radio and is dedicated to making 
it more enjoyable for all is Bruce Paige, KK5DO.
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From k7trkradio at charter.net  Tue Jul  7 23:57:01 2020
From: k7trkradio at charter.net (Ted Krempa)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 16:57:01 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA Malfeasance?
In-Reply-To: <c6fb821c-3196-576b-3992-92180561b719@pobox.com>
References: <81CD4871-2BE5-4293-9099-3E3AADF4D7E2@mac.com>	<1059551836.3732861.1594134694717@mail.yahoo.com>
	<c6fb821c-3196-576b-3992-92180561b719@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <019601d654ba$4f8d7850$eea868f0$@charter.net>

Bob's point was that it is disingenuous for someone to make some 'drive-by' comments, and not identify. (Especially for a malcontent like Clint)

73, Ted
K7TRK

 

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org] On Behalf Of Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2020 12:51 PM
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA Malfeasance?

On 07/07/20 10:11, Bob Liddy (K8BL) via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>   Why do people post items on a HAM RADIO BBS and NOT use their CALL LETTERS?  Very rude! Why would someone make statements and keep themselves unknown? It could be Spam for all we know!!!  Not signed.de  Bob  K8BL

It is not a requirement to have an amateur radio license to be on 
amsat-bb, as far as I know.

http://www.arrl.org/amateur-code

--- Zach
N0ZGO
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From w7lrd at comcast.net  Wed Jul  8 03:51:58 2020
From: w7lrd at comcast.net (73 Bob W7LRD)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 20:51:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [amsat-bb] G5500 control unit switch
Message-ID: <2022317678.27070.1594180318539@connect.xfinity.com>

Hello I am going through some %$#$@ drama with Yaesu in trying to get a simple switch with paddle for my G5500 control unit.  They sent me a couple of switches the paddles do not come with the switch.  The switch and paddle have been removed but the paddles I have on backorder (still on boat) if the are the same as I have are incompatible with the switches they sent.  The plot thickens.  I believe out there somewhere there is G5500 control unit that is destroyed for whatever reason and I could cannibalize the switch.  This drama with Yaesu has turned into a pita.  This is a potential high failure item and should be easily available.  Help needed.
73 Bob W7LRD

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Wed Jul  8 04:24:31 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 23:24:31 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA Malfeasance?
In-Reply-To: <019601d654ba$4f8d7850$eea868f0$@charter.net>
References: <81CD4871-2BE5-4293-9099-3E3AADF4D7E2@mac.com>
	<1059551836.3732861.1594134694717@mail.yahoo.com>
	<c6fb821c-3196-576b-3992-92180561b719@pobox.com>
	<019601d654ba$4f8d7850$eea868f0$@charter.net>
Message-ID: <eb0ecba1-fc48-b168-2bcf-d4db7ebc4db6@pobox.com>

On 07/07/20 18:57, Ted Krempa wrote:
> Bob's point was that it is disingenuous for someone to make some 'drive-by' comments, and not identify. (Especially for a malcontent like Clint)

I remember junior high well enough, I don't need a refresher.

Let's get back to discussing amateur radio in space.

73,

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From clintbradford at mac.com  Wed Jul  8 05:47:08 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 22:47:08 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA Malfeasance?
In-Reply-To: <CAPRXzyrbtD5jTdhtP2CY0JMQDdmw+vK9TU0cpCJ1KJ513SPnjg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <81CD4871-2BE5-4293-9099-3E3AADF4D7E2@mac.com>
	<CAPRXzyrbtD5jTdhtP2CY0JMQDdmw+vK9TU0cpCJ1KJ513SPnjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <70F4FDED-6D26-40CE-B97F-203A64273563@mac.com>

> >> ? Hey now! I want your vote, too :) 
> >> ? Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]




Man, and *I* embarrassed ? I was blinded so much by who was so inappropriate that 
I blew right by your name.

OF COURSE Mark N8MH deserves just about any recognition or post - and any 
organization would benefit by his presence.

Clint K6LCS


PS Not that many care about what this old man thinks ? (g)



From w9gb at icloud.com  Wed Jul  8 11:16:03 2020
From: w9gb at icloud.com (Gregory Beat)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2020 06:16:03 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] G5500 control unit switch
Message-ID: <231CDE4A-CBF7-470C-8220-7681332F7305@icloud.com>

Bob -

This is an OLD Topic, that Yaesu Repair Parts in USA, NEVER adequately addressed.

Yaesu purchased the Kenpro rotator product line over 25 years ago.
The original supplier (OEM) for Front Lever Switch to Kenpro, discontinued the part.
?
There are other rocker switches (of proper size) that will fit the Kenpro/Yaesu front panel mounting holes.
HOWEVER, the original switch mfg. used an OFFSET Lever (Pivot) that was NOY Symmetrical about the pivot axis.  Kenpro designed ALL of their front panel molds (rotator controls) to work with that Offset Lever style.

Photos of one of the LAST Switches (discontinued) 
that Yaesu USA had left 6 years ago. Photos at entry #8 (QRZ Q&A Tech Forums).
https://forums.qrz.com/index.php?threads/g-500a-replacement-switch.664784/

The Yaesu Solution SHOULD BE to offer that common NKK switch, 
and then have a Custom Lever molded for compatibility with the front panels.

In 2014, I identified and purchased a NKK rocker switch (NKK Series M2) from Mouser, NKK # M2022TYW01  (Cost $4.80 back in 2014).
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/633-M2022TYW01

This rocker switch fit properly on Kenpro/Yaesu front panels (rotator control). 
https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/295/MrockersFlatFrame-1663268.pdf

HOWEVER, the standard NKK Levers (Paddles) do NOT work ? Pivot NOT OFFSET.
NKK # AT4157C (Red color)
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/633-AT4157C
Datasheet
https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/295/accessorieshardware-10910.pdf

SO, All you need is the Proper ?Off Set? Lever.  
This could be 3D-Printed OR Injected Molded (Plastic) from a CAD design.

GOOD LUCK !

greg
w9gb
==
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 20:51:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: 73 Bob W7LRD <w7lrd at comcast.net>
To: amsat-bb <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] G5500 control unit switch

Hello I am going through some %$#$@ drama with Yaesu in trying to get a simple switch with paddle for my G5500 control unit.  They sent me a couple of switches the paddles do not come with the switch.  The switch and paddle have been removed but the paddles I have on backorder (still on boat) if the are the same as I have are incompatible with the switches they sent.  The plot thickens.  I believe out there somewhere there is G5500 control unit that is destroyed for whatever reason and I could cannibalize the switch.  This drama with Yaesu has turned into a pita.  This is a potential high failure item and should be easily available.  Help needed.
73 Bob W7LRD

From michael at n4dcw.com  Wed Jul  8 12:55:25 2020
From: michael at n4dcw.com (Michael Whitman)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2020 08:55:25 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] EM57/67 Rove This Weekend
Message-ID: <9726016E-F07A-40A2-9175-3FE62E09D350@n4dcw.com>

Good morning, grid chasers,

This weekend, July 11-12, 2020, I?ll be operating from the EM57/67 gridline. Additionally,  I will be on one AO-7 pass from EM58 on Saturday afternoon.

I will be camping in EM68, so if you need that grid please email me and I?m happy to sked for Friday or Saturday evening.

All passes and a frequency plan are posted on my QRZ page. Watch for updates on my Twitter feed @mwimages. 

LoTW, because, of course.

Happy chasing!

73,
Michael, N4DCW

--

Michael Whitman
michael at n4dcw.com
Home Grid: EM78


From n4ufo at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  8 20:41:51 2020
From: n4ufo at yahoo.com (Kevin M)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2020 20:41:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] GridMaster Award
References: <1047990786.3655383.1594240911683.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1047990786.3655383.1594240911683@mail.yahoo.com>

Congratulations to Kevin, N4UFO, for earning AMSAT GridMaster Award #12.

-- 

Bruce Paige, KK5DO
                      
AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
AMSAT Board Member 2016-2020
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, Bruce! Took me just over 5 years to complete that... got back on sats in spring of 2013 and worked the last of the 488 in the summer of 2018. (Thanks N7AGF!) Hopefully I will be able to get back on the sats sometime in the future and pass it along by giving out some grids again.
I appreciate you doing all the work to process that, I look forward to seeing something in the mail soon. =^) - 73, Kevin N4UFO

From wa9wud at gmail.com  Wed Jul  8 21:51:23 2020
From: wa9wud at gmail.com (Alan Blind)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2020 17:51:23 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-92 L Band Power
Message-ID: <CADYce2KgTHdOgZSZwkNgVC+FC9jLZxmr2E2isuqpt71zDpVpcA@mail.gmail.com>

Using 10 Watts, I have not been able to get into AO-92 L Band.

>From the AO-92 web site:

================

......Since the 435 MHz uplink antenna is used to receive the 1267 MHz
signals and may present a mismatch at that frequency, pre-launch estimates
suggest that a power level of 100 watts ERP will be required for
horizon-to-horizon access in Mode L/v. AMSAT Engineering will issue further
guidance after in-orbit testing. Look for future articles on the AMSAT
website and in The AMSAT Journal for equipment ideas and tutorials for
accessing the L-band uplink.
====================

Perhaps my 10 Watts are too low.  Have there been updates from AMSAT on
recommended L band power?  What power do others run?

Alan
WA9WUD

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Wed Jul  8 21:55:47 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2020 16:55:47 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-92 L Band Power
In-Reply-To: <CADYce2KgTHdOgZSZwkNgVC+FC9jLZxmr2E2isuqpt71zDpVpcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADYce2KgTHdOgZSZwkNgVC+FC9jLZxmr2E2isuqpt71zDpVpcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b79464fc-496e-40b1-f9a5-b04c682d7f98@pobox.com>

On 07/08/20 16:51, Alan Blind via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Perhaps my 10 Watts are too low.  Have there been updates from AMSAT on
> recommended L band power?  What power do others run?

Alan,

Out of curiosity, what is your antenna and calculated EIRP?

I have a nearly-complete 1.2GHz FM rig that just needs to go into a box. 
(http://www.pe1jpd.nl/index.php/23cm_nbfm/ with the AO-92 mod.)

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net  Wed Jul  8 22:10:07 2020
From: amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net (Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK))
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2020 22:10:07 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-92 L Band Power
In-Reply-To: <CADYce2KgTHdOgZSZwkNgVC+FC9jLZxmr2E2isuqpt71zDpVpcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADYce2KgTHdOgZSZwkNgVC+FC9jLZxmr2E2isuqpt71zDpVpcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN6TEUfqfdVm_YzYyPs4Q2QKmxK1iKOzyGbjs=HyOFTNTJKdbA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Alan!

I have been using 10W from an old Kenwood TM-541A 1.2 GHz FM
mobile, connected to a 10-element Yagi with 6 feet of coax.
I was on two passes earlier this morning, and two passes
last night. Even with the smallest tuning steps on the TM-541A
at 10 watts, I am able to get through during most of almost any
pass. I have been using this setup for the past few months.

In the past, I was working AO-92 L/V with 1 watt from an Alinco
DJ-G7T HT into the same coax and Yagi. The DJ-G7T tunes in 5 kHz
steps, which is helpful at the lower power level. The AFC in
AO-92's uplink receiver doesn't appear to work with weaker signals,
where the 10W from the TM-541A works even if I am a couple of kHz
from what the Doppler-adjusted uplink frequency would be at some
moments during passes.

What radio, coax, and antenna are you using for your 1.2 GHz
uplink?

73!




Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK




On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:52 PM Alan Blind via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Using 10 Watts, I have not been able to get into AO-92 L Band.
>
> <snip>
>
> Perhaps my 10 Watts are too low.  Have there been updates from AMSAT on
> recommended L band power?  What power do others run?
>
> Alan
> WA9WUD
>
>

From wa9wud at gmail.com  Wed Jul  8 22:39:45 2020
From: wa9wud at gmail.com (Alan Blind)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2020 18:39:45 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-92 L Band Power
In-Reply-To: <CAN6TEUfqfdVm_YzYyPs4Q2QKmxK1iKOzyGbjs=HyOFTNTJKdbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADYce2KgTHdOgZSZwkNgVC+FC9jLZxmr2E2isuqpt71zDpVpcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN6TEUfqfdVm_YzYyPs4Q2QKmxK1iKOzyGbjs=HyOFTNTJKdbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADYce2L_qJOq2YmvtSqoNOEFkBr0sqh4YiOW72XswbN9q1vnYQ@mail.gmail.com>

Patrick:

rig - Down East Microwave L24X Transmit converter
coax - 150 feet LMR-600
antenna -  M2 23CM22EZA , 18 dbi gain, Horizontal,
Diamond SX1100 Power meter, SWR is 1.4:1
TX PL tone 67.0 kHZ

I have pushed the TX to 20 watts, but also, did not hear myself.

AO-92 U/v works just fine, so I know my RX is OK.

Alan
WA9WUD

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 6:10 PM Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <
amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net> wrote:

> Hi Alan!
>
> I have been using 10W from an old Kenwood TM-541A 1.2 GHz FM
> mobile, connected to a 10-element Yagi with 6 feet of coax.
> I was on two passes earlier this morning, and two passes
> last night. Even with the smallest tuning steps on the TM-541A
> at 10 watts, I am able to get through during most of almost any
> pass. I have been using this setup for the past few months.
>
> In the past, I was working AO-92 L/V with 1 watt from an Alinco
> DJ-G7T HT into the same coax and Yagi. The DJ-G7T tunes in 5 kHz
> steps, which is helpful at the lower power level. The AFC in
> AO-92's uplink receiver doesn't appear to work with weaker signals,
> where the 10W from the TM-541A works even if I am a couple of kHz
> from what the Doppler-adjusted uplink frequency would be at some
> moments during passes.
>
> What radio, coax, and antenna are you using for your 1.2 GHz
> uplink?
>
> 73!
>
>
>
>
> Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:52 PM Alan Blind via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Using 10 Watts, I have not been able to get into AO-92 L Band.
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Perhaps my 10 Watts are too low.  Have there been updates from AMSAT on
>> recommended L band power?  What power do others run?
>>
>> Alan
>> WA9WUD
>>
>>

From rwmcgwier at gmail.com  Wed Jul  8 22:45:55 2020
From: rwmcgwier at gmail.com (Robert McGwier)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2020 17:45:55 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Candidacy for the board of AMSAT
Message-ID: <CA+K5gzcFdbN7yuU2q=dNUkAR0TMYHYJi=DauVn9H6Buhn2J=uA@mail.gmail.com>

I am a candidate for election to the AMSAT board of directors for 2020. My
long time friend and mentor, K3IO, Tom Clark
<https://www.facebook.com/Tom.K3IO?__tn__=%2CdK-R-R&eid=ARBwhOFsnXwGjXcNw6BgpAb2qylE8_YbVOsWTtxYGW0TjyualN4-yKAH7HNtMBZkozYoesHnCTCyDopC&fref=mentions>,
the longest-serving board member is giving up his seat but not before he
endorsed my candidacy. I will be grateful for people's votes and support. I
will do my best to help the organization.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZB8ROdAzbQKayJF60QSKvkKyAmYltPcb/view?usp=sharing

73s
Bob
N4HY

-- 
Bob McGwier
Founder, Federated Wireless, Inc
Founder and Technical Advisor, HawkEye 360, Inc
Adjunct Professor Virginia Tech
Former Chief Scientist:  The Ted and Karyn Hume Center for National
Security and Technology
Senior Member IEEE, Facebook: N4HYBob, ARS: N4HY

From n3cal at md.metrocast.net  Wed Jul  8 23:09:17 2020
From: n3cal at md.metrocast.net (Cal Spreitzer)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2020 19:09:17 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-92 L Band Power
In-Reply-To: <CADYce2KgTHdOgZSZwkNgVC+FC9jLZxmr2E2isuqpt71zDpVpcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADYce2KgTHdOgZSZwkNgVC+FC9jLZxmr2E2isuqpt71zDpVpcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000301d6557c$ce6bdf50$6b439df0$@metrocast.net>

Alan,

I'm using 10w (ICOM IC-9700) through 50 feet LMR-400 into a Directive
Systems 24 Element Loop Yagi. No issues getting in when the L-Band is
enabled ( currently on Wednesday's )

Cal/N3CAL

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org] On Behalf Of Alan Blind
via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2020 5:51 PM
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-92 L Band Power

Using 10 Watts, I have not been able to get into AO-92 L Band.

>From the AO-92 web site:

================

......Since the 435 MHz uplink antenna is used to receive the 1267 MHz
signals and may present a mismatch at that frequency, pre-launch estimates
suggest that a power level of 100 watts ERP will be required for
horizon-to-horizon access in Mode L/v. AMSAT Engineering will issue further
guidance after in-orbit testing. Look for future articles on the AMSAT
website and in The AMSAT Journal for equipment ideas and tutorials for
accessing the L-band uplink.
====================

Perhaps my 10 Watts are too low.  Have there been updates from AMSAT on
recommended L band power?  What power do others run?

Alan
WA9WUD
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From rwmcgwier at gmail.com  Wed Jul  8 23:41:26 2020
From: rwmcgwier at gmail.com (Robert McGwier)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2020 18:41:26 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Satellite Danger Zone
In-Reply-To: <CAM42373862wOi0kH+Rme737iUPGtXxJNcoS4hFJTrJGBHddMMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM42373862wOi0kH+Rme737iUPGtXxJNcoS4hFJTrJGBHddMMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+K5gze5w=k-yRQhq=01pLHK0T5Dv_Hr6SfXTxqC_CD4bN_1fw@mail.gmail.com>

Nice video.

On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 8:00 PM Paul F. Merrill via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> https://youtu.be/w-nfF7bK34Y
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
Bob McGwier
Founder, Federated Wireless, Inc
Founder and Technical Advisor, HawkEye 360, Inc
Adjunct Professor Virginia Tech
Former Chief Scientist:  The Ted and Karyn Hume Center for National
Security and Technology
Senior Member IEEE, Facebook: N4HYBob, ARS: N4HY

From aa5uk at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  9 00:53:40 2020
From: aa5uk at yahoo.com (Adrian Engele)
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 00:53:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] AA5UK 7-09-20  EN67 - EN57-EN56
References: <1689163321.2381461.1594256020561.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1689163321.2381461.1594256020561@mail.yahoo.com>

7-09-2020: EN67 in the morning:
RS44? ? 09:48Z 145.925,?AO7? ? ? 10:22Z 145.938,?CAS4B 10:42Z 145.920,?XW2F? ?10:48Z 145.985,?CAS4A 10:56Z 145.865,?AO73? ? 11:02Z 145.955,?XW2B? ?11:14Z 145.735
I am then heading to EN57 for a short stop over. I will focus on EN56 on Thursday afternoon/evening and Friday morning. Passes are TBD.Friday afternoon/evening I plan to make my way to EN55.
Cellphone coverage is horrible in the Upper Michigan and I lose APRS connection often.
Reminder this is a vacation trip and I am operating holiday style
73, Adrian AA5UK
APRS: AA5UK-9


Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From w7lrd at comcast.net  Thu Jul  9 02:16:50 2020
From: w7lrd at comcast.net (73 Bob W7LRD)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2020 19:16:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-92 L Band Power
In-Reply-To: <CADYce2KgTHdOgZSZwkNgVC+FC9jLZxmr2E2isuqpt71zDpVpcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADYce2KgTHdOgZSZwkNgVC+FC9jLZxmr2E2isuqpt71zDpVpcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1931031146.32491.1594261010804@connect.xfinity.com>

Alan- IC-910 10W through 70 feet of LMR600 24 el looper.  Works great.
73 Bob W7LRD
> On 07/08/2020 2:51 PM Alan Blind via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
>  
> Using 10 Watts, I have not been able to get into AO-92 L Band.
> 
> From the AO-92 web site:
> 
> ================
> 
> ......Since the 435 MHz uplink antenna is used to receive the 1267 MHz
> signals and may present a mismatch at that frequency, pre-launch estimates
> suggest that a power level of 100 watts ERP will be required for
> horizon-to-horizon access in Mode L/v. AMSAT Engineering will issue further
> guidance after in-orbit testing. Look for future articles on the AMSAT
> website and in The AMSAT Journal for equipment ideas and tutorials for
> accessing the L-band uplink.
> ====================
> 
> Perhaps my 10 Watts are too low.  Have there been updates from AMSAT on
> recommended L band power?  What power do others run?
> 
> Alan
> WA9WUD
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From jim at k6ccc.org  Thu Jul  9 02:20:30 2020
From: jim at k6ccc.org (Jim Walls)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2020 19:20:30 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] FoxDelta ST2-0417 USB setup help
Message-ID: <e40a1642-486b-c70c-ee29-19850aecc03d@k6ccc.org>

I recently bought a FoxDelta ST2-0417 USB rotor interface for my Yaesu 
G-5500 rotor.? I have the ST-2 communicating with the rotor just fine.? 
I can see the azimuth and elevation readout and using the ST2 
pushbuttons, I can control both just fine. ? However, I can't get it to 
communicate properly with my computer.? I am running a Dell desktop 
under Windows 10 and have installed the CH360G driver.? The ST2 shows as 
COM8 according the the device manager.? If I unplug the USB cable, the 
Device Manager confirms that COM8 goes away and when I plug the cable 
back in, COM8 returns.? I initially was trying to use Nova for Windows 
(which I have used for 20+ years).? I tried every software interface 
setting (using COM8) and the best I could get a couple weeks ago was 
Azimuth display and control (no elevation display, but it appeared that 
it tried to control elevation), but can't manage to replicate that 
today. Everything shows either 0.0 / 0.0 or ---- / ---- for the rotor 
pointing in Nova.
Somewhat out of desperation, I downloaded SatPC32 and can't even get 
that far.? As far as I can tell, every rotor type is expecting a 
parallel port interface.? Keep in mind that I have never seen SatPC32 
until an hour ago, so that may be my issue.

My preference would be to use Nova for Windows, but if that can't be 
made to work, I CAN switch over to SatPC32.? In either case, the 
software will be used exclusively for rotor control and not doppler 
correction (not using a radio that supports that).


Do you have any suggestions?

-- 
73
-------------------------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
jim at k6ccc.org
Ofc:  818-548-4804
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395


From n0jy at amsat.org  Thu Jul  9 03:07:58 2020
From: n0jy at amsat.org (Jerry Buxton)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2020 22:07:58 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-92 L Band Power
In-Reply-To: <CADYce2KgTHdOgZSZwkNgVC+FC9jLZxmr2E2isuqpt71zDpVpcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADYce2KgTHdOgZSZwkNgVC+FC9jLZxmr2E2isuqpt71zDpVpcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dda8b847-b530-6d52-668e-a70481f2da7a@amsat.org>

On 7/8/2020 16:51, Alan Blind via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Using 10 Watts, I have not been able to get into AO-92 L Band.
>
>
Hi Alan,

Perhaps it's something else, just for thought.
At 1267 MHz frequency is important and with the higher Doppler shift and
perhaps other slightly stronger or closer to center frequency uplink
signals might be captured.? AFC favors stronger, at least fairly
constant strength signals and those closer to the center frequency.? You
may have enough power but are just enough off frequency to be bested by
other signals, off frequency can be because of PC clock, lat/long (your
QTH) in the tracking program, the accuracy of your transmitter, and
items of a similar nature.?

I have spent a few passes over the years being off frequency or even
stupidly off frequency or even off (wrong) band, wrong Doppler.sqf line
selected in the CAT window, no/wrong CTCSS, or forgot to engage antenna
tracking, that kinda stuff that just happens.? Sometimes the cats turn
off the radio when I'm not looking, just before a pass.? Nobody knows
about these problems though because I haven't told anyone, if somebody
asks where I was I just say like "no, I didn't get on for that pass".???

Jerry Buxton, N?JY


From pconver at gmail.com  Thu Jul  9 04:23:22 2020
From: pconver at gmail.com (Pedro Converso)
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 01:23:22 -0300
Subject: [amsat-bb] Satellite Danger Zone
In-Reply-To: <CA+K5gze5w=k-yRQhq=01pLHK0T5Dv_Hr6SfXTxqC_CD4bN_1fw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM42373862wOi0kH+Rme737iUPGtXxJNcoS4hFJTrJGBHddMMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+K5gze5w=k-yRQhq=01pLHK0T5Dv_Hr6SfXTxqC_CD4bN_1fw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANTZqKk_Fe14z6uwL697+mFVOsmg5ufgXr1f72YPxq19RdEyBA@mail.gmail.com>

On the 1990 launched PACSATS AO-16 & LO-19, onboard software had
detection of SEUs (Single Event Upsets), allowing detection and
correction on the fly, as well as logging of SEUs.

SEUs were produced when high energy particles hit and change a bit in
local satellite memory.

These SEUs Logs could be downloaded, and thru a local developed
program knowing time of SEU it could be determined where was the
satellite at that time.

Thru several days error logs, plots could be produced, amazingly
showing the South Atlantic Anomaly danger zone and other areas of
higher energy.

One of the graphs at: http://amsat.org.ar/showlog.gif

At that time (1991) results where shared to NASA, becoming a
contribution due to Amateur Satellites and AMSAT.

This 30 years old application (showlog at
http://amsat.org.ar/SOFTWARE/TRACK1/SHOWLOG.ZIP ) is still available
and could be run using DOSBOX.

73, LU7ABF, Pedro

On 7/8/20, Robert McGwier via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> Nice video.
>
> On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 8:00 PM Paul F. Merrill via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> https://youtu.be/w-nfF7bK34Y
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>
>
> --
> Bob McGwier
> Founder, Federated Wireless, Inc
> Founder and Technical Advisor, HawkEye 360, Inc
> Adjunct Professor Virginia Tech
> Former Chief Scientist:  The Ted and Karyn Hume Center for National
> Security and Technology
> Senior Member IEEE, Facebook: N4HYBob, ARS: N4HY
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From charlieray at gmail.com  Thu Jul  9 04:48:05 2020
From: charlieray at gmail.com (Charles Reiche)
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 00:48:05 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] FoxDelta ST2-0417 USB setup help
In-Reply-To: <e40a1642-486b-c70c-ee29-19850aecc03d@k6ccc.org>
References: <e40a1642-486b-c70c-ee29-19850aecc03d@k6ccc.org>
Message-ID: <CAMkCmDr-SMFCdBJQyO_E9t+WvaKwMHfQhMPER8zj45Y6JAZUmg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jim,

What about opening the com port in a serial terminal program and sending
and receiving commands and feedback from the interface?
If you built your interface, make sure the voltage regulator is soldered in
correctly and everything is running at 5V. I managed to have my regulator
in backwards and everything including the USB chip was running at about 9V.
After I fixed the regulator, I had to replace the USB chip before things
behaved correctly. Maybe the interface only has communications in one
direction?

I never had any luck with connection to Satpc32, but PSTRotator works great
and can be controlled by Satpc32 over DDE.


Charlie
N3CRT


On Wed, Jul 8, 2020, 10:29 PM Jim Walls via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> I recently bought a FoxDelta ST2-0417 USB rotor interface for my Yaesu
> G-5500 rotor.  I have the ST-2 communicating with the rotor just fine.
> I can see the azimuth and elevation readout and using the ST2
> pushbuttons, I can control both just fine.   However, I can't get it to
> communicate properly with my computer.  I am running a Dell desktop
> under Windows 10 and have installed the CH360G driver.  The ST2 shows as
> COM8 according the the device manager.  If I unplug the USB cable, the
> Device Manager confirms that COM8 goes away and when I plug the cable
> back in, COM8 returns.  I initially was trying to use Nova for Windows
> (which I have used for 20+ years).  I tried every software interface
> setting (using COM8) and the best I could get a couple weeks ago was
> Azimuth display and control (no elevation display, but it appeared that
> it tried to control elevation), but can't manage to replicate that
> today. Everything shows either 0.0 / 0.0 or ---- / ---- for the rotor
> pointing in Nova.
> Somewhat out of desperation, I downloaded SatPC32 and can't even get
> that far.  As far as I can tell, every rotor type is expecting a
> parallel port interface.  Keep in mind that I have never seen SatPC32
> until an hour ago, so that may be my issue.
>
> My preference would be to use Nova for Windows, but if that can't be
> made to work, I CAN switch over to SatPC32.  In either case, the
> software will be used exclusively for rotor control and not doppler
> correction (not using a radio that supports that).
>
>
> Do you have any suggestions?
>
> --
> 73
> -------------------------------------
> Jim Walls - K6CCC
> jim at k6ccc.org
> Ofc:  818-548-4804
> http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/
> AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From n0jy at amsat.org  Thu Jul  9 05:11:26 2020
From: n0jy at amsat.org (Jerry Buxton)
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 00:11:26 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Satellite Danger Zone
In-Reply-To: <CAM42373862wOi0kH+Rme737iUPGtXxJNcoS4hFJTrJGBHddMMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM42373862wOi0kH+Rme737iUPGtXxJNcoS4hFJTrJGBHddMMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bd758ec4-7ad0-7568-2899-23a49beb5acb@amsat.org>

On 7/5/2020 19:58, Paul F. Merrill via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> https://youtu.be/w-nfF7bK34Y
>
A? nice find, Paul.
The video ties to our Fox-1 series of CubeSats that were designed to
reboot and carry on, based on expected IHU resets in the SAA.? This plot
http://amsat.us/images/2020-07-08%20(2).png
was the first developed and shows the location of IHU resets for about
the first two years of AO-85 (Fox-1A) operation, starting after launch
in 4Q 2015.? It clearly showed us that the expectation was sound as well
as how it compared to our thoughts on the number of SAA upsets per day.?
Not all passes through the SAA had resets and there were resets outside
the SAA, some of which may be linked to the aurorae.?
The Earth image mapping of the data was done by Douglas Quagliana, KA2UPW/5.

The information from all of the Foxes provides us guidance on the design
of GOLF satellites at various heights and what may be expected and
mitigated using low cost COTS components.? The RT-IHU is one of the
technology exploration systems on the GOLF-TEE mission and is a project
that looks to provide better radiation tolerance in higher LEO.? The
initial flights of RT-IHU will help in assessing risk tolerance for
certain missions in what we can do using COTS vs. costly rad-hard
components.

AO-85 also carried the first radiation effects experiment flown on an
AMSAT satellite by our partner Vanderbilt University, followed by Fox-1B
(RadFxSat/AO-91) and soon to be launched Fox-1E (RadFxSat-2), all
observing radiation upsets and events on COTS components.

Jerry Buxton, N?JY


From jim at k6ccc.org  Thu Jul  9 05:46:15 2020
From: jim at k6ccc.org (Jim Walls)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2020 22:46:15 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] FoxDelta ST2-0417 USB setup help
In-Reply-To: <CAMkCmDr-SMFCdBJQyO_E9t+WvaKwMHfQhMPER8zj45Y6JAZUmg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e40a1642-486b-c70c-ee29-19850aecc03d@k6ccc.org>
	<CAMkCmDr-SMFCdBJQyO_E9t+WvaKwMHfQhMPER8zj45Y6JAZUmg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9821d0b0-1d2e-662d-1100-0ceb25e74b54@k6ccc.org>

On 07/08/2020 21:48, Charles Reiche wrote:
> Hi Jim,
>
> What about opening the com port in a serial terminal program and 
> sending and receiving commands and feedback from the interface?

Good idea.? Had to find a reference for the GS-232 command set, but 
Google quickly found that.? As far as I can tell, the only commands that 
work are C, C1, & C2 which gives the Azimuth, Azmuth, & Azimuth and 
Elevation (although not in the format that the reference I found says it 
should be).? The numbers match what the FoxDelta display shows - which 
also match the G-5500 control box meters.? All other commands result in 
a response of:? ?>


> If you built your interface, make sure the voltage regulator is 
> soldered in correctly and everything is running at 5V. I managed to 
> have my regulator in backwards and everything including the USB chip 
> was running at about 9V.


This was a purchased completed unit from FoxDelta.

-- 

73
-------------------------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
jim at k6ccc.org
Ofc:  818-548-4804
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395


From marklhammond at gmail.com  Thu Jul  9 10:47:45 2020
From: marklhammond at gmail.com (Mark L. Hammond)
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 06:47:45 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-92 L Band Power
In-Reply-To: <CADYce2KgTHdOgZSZwkNgVC+FC9jLZxmr2E2isuqpt71zDpVpcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADYce2KgTHdOgZSZwkNgVC+FC9jLZxmr2E2isuqpt71zDpVpcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPRXzyqSMQE3V03MdraJPs1a7J_tZSwAno9t1c9PO7q6kC2Waw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Alan, in the rather safe than sorry category?check your uplink
frequency.    After launch we quickly determined a ?best? uplink was 1267.359
MHzMost folks find this to be pretty good.  Then Doppler correction is
important at these frequencies, so adjust for that as well.  One night I
wasn?t quite getting into the bird and knew I should have been.  It was
just a couple kHz off, but enough to make a big difference.  Give that a
shot anyhow. Easy for radios to be off a tad at these high frequencies,
too.

Hope to work you on L-band soon!

Mark N8MH

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 5:52 PM Alan Blind via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Using 10 Watts, I have not been able to get into AO-92 L Band.
>
> From the AO-92 web site:
>
> ================
>
> ......Since the 435 MHz uplink antenna is used to receive the 1267 MHz
> signals and may present a mismatch at that frequency, pre-launch estimates
> suggest that a power level of 100 watts ERP will be required for
> horizon-to-horizon access in Mode L/v. AMSAT Engineering will issue further
> guidance after in-orbit testing. Look for future articles on the AMSAT
> website and in The AMSAT Journal for equipment ideas and tutorials for
> accessing the L-band uplink.
> ====================
>
> Perhaps my 10 Watts are too low.  Have there been updates from AMSAT on
> recommended L band power?  What power do others run?
>
> Alan
> WA9WUD
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
-- 
Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
AMSAT Director and Command Station

From wizardofzid at gmail.com  Thu Jul  9 14:00:34 2020
From: wizardofzid at gmail.com (Russ Kinner)
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2020 07:00:34 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO92 pass, 0510z 7/9
Message-ID: <ivcjjpvi7l8eaj54jlmkln2x.1594302910228@email.android.com>

I worked a station operating in Teton N.P. (DN43) on the pass Sat night and thought I had the call but even after listening to the recording I'm not sure.  The call was in the fade when sent phonetically.
Several other stations also worked him so if you heard KC5FLQ or KC5SLQ or his right call, can you advise?  It's a new grid for me.

Rusty, WA8ZID

From bmepllc at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  8 22:30:17 2020
From: bmepllc at yahoo.com (Lynn Palmer)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2020 22:30:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-92 L Band Power
In-Reply-To: <CADYce2KgTHdOgZSZwkNgVC+FC9jLZxmr2E2isuqpt71zDpVpcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADYce2KgTHdOgZSZwkNgVC+FC9jLZxmr2E2isuqpt71zDpVpcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1176643711.3716907.1594247417314@mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Alan, I use 10 watts from my Icom IC-9700. I run about 100 feet of LMR 600 coax so maybe 5 watts to the antenna.? I use a 35 element yagi antenna.? I made the satellite today at 14 degrees elevation OK.?
73sLynnKD9BVG 

    On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 04:53:09 PM CDT, Alan Blind via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 Using 10 Watts, I have not been able to get into AO-92 L Band.

>From the AO-92 web site:

================

......Since the 435 MHz uplink antenna is used to receive the 1267 MHz
signals and may present a mismatch at that frequency, pre-launch estimates
suggest that a power level of 100 watts ERP will be required for
horizon-to-horizon access in Mode L/v. AMSAT Engineering will issue further
guidance after in-orbit testing. Look for future articles on the AMSAT
website and in The AMSAT Journal for equipment ideas and tutorials for
accessing the L-band uplink.
====================

Perhaps my 10 Watts are too low.? Have there been updates from AMSAT on
recommended L band power?? What power do others run?

Alan
WA9WUD
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From johnnykludt at gmail.com  Thu Jul  9 16:15:26 2020
From: johnnykludt at gmail.com (John Kludt)
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 12:15:26 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-92 L Band Power
In-Reply-To: <1176643711.3716907.1594247417314@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CADYce2KgTHdOgZSZwkNgVC+FC9jLZxmr2E2isuqpt71zDpVpcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1176643711.3716907.1594247417314@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CABsMmtS8aN9+P6eRQ_ynPvTYOmaH_+N1GUe7DVhVgwoZ=FU_cQ@mail.gmail.com>

 All

The important thing to remember is ERP.  Using the KV5R calculator and
assuming an SWR or 1.2:!  the ERP for this contact was  618 watts.  (
http://kv5r.com/ham-radio/coax-loss-calculator/)  The antenna gain was
based on the published gain for the M2 35 element Yagi .

Ten watts may or may not be enough.  What we need to do is look at the
overall system of losses ( coax) and gains (antenna).

Hope this helps

John K4SQC

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 10:13 AM Lynn Palmer via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Hi Alan, I use 10 watts from my Icom IC-9700. I run about 100 feet of LMR
> 600 coax so maybe 5 watts to the antenna.  I use a 35 element yagi
> antenna.  I made the satellite today at 14 degrees elevation OK.
> 73sLynnKD9BVG
>
>     On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 04:53:09 PM CDT, Alan Blind via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>  Using 10 Watts, I have not been able to get into AO-92 L Band.
>
> From the AO-92 web site:
>
> ================
>
> ......Since the 435 MHz uplink antenna is used to receive the 1267 MHz
> signals and may present a mismatch at that frequency, pre-launch estimates
> suggest that a power level of 100 watts ERP will be required for
> horizon-to-horizon access in Mode L/v. AMSAT Engineering will issue further
> guidance after in-orbit testing. Look for future articles on the AMSAT
> website and in The AMSAT Journal for equipment ideas and tutorials for
> accessing the L-band uplink.
> ====================
>
> Perhaps my 10 Watts are too low.  Have there been updates from AMSAT on
> recommended L band power?  What power do others run?
>
> Alan
> WA9WUD
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc  Thu Jul  9 16:38:39 2020
From: wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc (Burns Fisher)
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 12:38:39 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] FoxDelta ST2-0417 USB setup help
In-Reply-To: <9821d0b0-1d2e-662d-1100-0ceb25e74b54@k6ccc.org>
References: <e40a1642-486b-c70c-ee29-19850aecc03d@k6ccc.org>
	<CAMkCmDr-SMFCdBJQyO_E9t+WvaKwMHfQhMPER8zj45Y6JAZUmg@mail.gmail.com>
	<9821d0b0-1d2e-662d-1100-0ceb25e74b54@k6ccc.org>
Message-ID: <CABX7KxUJ-rVggrM=aAjE7NzZvS8H0NhPahWEi+iACAKmd9hbGg@mail.gmail.com>

SatPC32 is a bit odd in how you set up the rotor.  You chose the COM port
in the separate application that it runs, not in the main window's setup
(which indeed shows only LP ports).  Could that be your SatpPC32 problem?

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 1:49 AM Jim Walls via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> On 07/08/2020 21:48, Charles Reiche wrote:
> > Hi Jim,
> >
> > What about opening the com port in a serial terminal program and
> > sending and receiving commands and feedback from the interface?
>
> Good idea.  Had to find a reference for the GS-232 command set, but
> Google quickly found that.  As far as I can tell, the only commands that
> work are C, C1, & C2 which gives the Azimuth, Azmuth, & Azimuth and
> Elevation (although not in the format that the reference I found says it
> should be).  The numbers match what the FoxDelta display shows - which
> also match the G-5500 control box meters.  All other commands result in
> a response of:  ?>
>
>
> > If you built your interface, make sure the voltage regulator is
> > soldered in correctly and everything is running at 5V. I managed to
> > have my regulator in backwards and everything including the USB chip
> > was running at about 9V.
>
>
> This was a purchased completed unit from FoxDelta.
>
> --
>
> 73
> -------------------------------------
> Jim Walls - K6CCC
> jim at k6ccc.org
> Ofc:  818-548-4804
> http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/
> AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From bmepllc at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  9 17:04:47 2020
From: bmepllc at yahoo.com (Lynn Palmer)
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 17:04:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-92 L Band Power
In-Reply-To: <CABsMmtS8aN9+P6eRQ_ynPvTYOmaH_+N1GUe7DVhVgwoZ=FU_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADYce2KgTHdOgZSZwkNgVC+FC9jLZxmr2E2isuqpt71zDpVpcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1176643711.3716907.1594247417314@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CABsMmtS8aN9+P6eRQ_ynPvTYOmaH_+N1GUe7DVhVgwoZ=FU_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2009794795.4038916.1594314287537@mail.yahoo.com>

John,?
Yes, of course you are right.? It is important to understand ERP to make comparisons. If I use my actual measured SWR and account for additional losses due to a jumper thru the entrance panel and into the shack, the calculated ERP is probably closer to 500 watts assuming the M2 published gain data of 20.94 dBi represents the actual performance of my "as installed" antenna setup.?
73sLynn? KD9BVG
    On Thursday, July 9, 2020, 11:15:38 AM CDT, John Kludt <johnnykludt at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 ?All
The important?thing to remember is ERP.? Using the KV5R calculator?and assuming an SWR or 1.2:!? the ERP for this contact?was? 618 watts.? (?http://kv5r.com/ham-radio/coax-loss-calculator/)? The antenna gain was based on the published gain for the M2 35 element Yagi .
Ten watts may or may not be enough.? What we need to do is look at the overall system of losses ( coax) and gains (antenna).
Hope this helps
John K4SQC
On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 10:13 AM Lynn Palmer via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

Hi Alan, I use 10 watts from my Icom IC-9700. I run about 100 feet of LMR 600 coax so maybe 5 watts to the antenna.? I use a 35 element yagi antenna.? I made the satellite today at 14 degrees elevation OK.?
73sLynnKD9BVG 

? ? On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 04:53:09 PM CDT, Alan Blind via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:? 

?Using 10 Watts, I have not been able to get into AO-92 L Band.

>From the AO-92 web site:

================

......Since the 435 MHz uplink antenna is used to receive the 1267 MHz
signals and may present a mismatch at that frequency, pre-launch estimates
suggest that a power level of 100 watts ERP will be required for
horizon-to-horizon access in Mode L/v. AMSAT Engineering will issue further
guidance after in-orbit testing. Look for future articles on the AMSAT
website and in The AMSAT Journal for equipment ideas and tutorials for
accessing the L-band uplink.
====================

Perhaps my 10 Watts are too low.? Have there been updates from AMSAT on
recommended L band power?? What power do others run?

Alan
WA9WUD
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

  

From aj9n at aol.com  Thu Jul  9 18:14:57 2020
From: aj9n at aol.com (aj9n at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 18:14:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-07-09 18:30
	UTC
References: <681652010.2654547.1594318497530.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <681652010.2654547.1594318497530@mail.yahoo.com>


Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-07-09 18:30 UTC

?

Quick list of scheduled contacts and events:

?

Don Bosco Haacht Technisch en Beroepsonderwijs, Haacht, Belgium, Multi-point telebridge via AB1OC 

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be NA1SS 

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR 

Contact is go for: Fri 2020-07-10 10:49:51 UTC 27 deg 

?

International Aerospace School, Ufa, Russia, direct via TBD (***)

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be RS?ISS (***)

The scheduled astronaut is Ivan Vagner (***)

Contact is go for Fri 2020-07-17 19:10 UTC (***)

?

########################################################################################################################################

A multi-point telebridge contact means that each student will be on the telebridge from their own home.

*************************************************

?

ARISS is very aware of the impact that COVID-19 is having on schools and the public in general.? As such, we may have last minute cancellations or postponements of school contacts.? As always, I will try to provide everyone with near-real-time updates.? 

?

The following schools have now been postponed or cancelled due to COVID-19:? 

?

Postponed:

No additional schools 

?

Cancelled:

No additional schools

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

?

Watch for future COVID-19 related announcements here also.

?

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

?

Note, all times are approximate. ?It is recommended that you do your own 

orbital prediction?or start listening about 10 minutes before the listed 

time. 

All dates and times listed follow International Standard ISO 8601 date and 

time format YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS

?

The complete schedule page has been updated as of?2020-07-09 18:30 UTC. (***)

Here you will find a listing of all scheduled?school contacts, and 

questions, other ISS related websites, IRLP and Echolink websites, and 

instructions for any contact that may be streamed live.

?

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf 

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.txt 

?

?

The successful school list has been updated as of 2020-06-16 16:00 UTC.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/Successful_ARISS_schools.rtf 

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

?

Message to US Educators

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States) 

?

The Proposal Window of February 1, 2020 to March 31, 2020 has now closed.

?

For future proposal information and more details such as expectations, proposal guidelines and proposal form, and dates and times of Information Webinars, go to www.ariss.org.

?

Please direct any questions to?ariss.us.education at gmail.com.

?

About ARISS:

?

Amateur Radio on the International Space Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radio societies and the space agencies that support the International Space Station (ISS).? In the United States, sponsors are the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio Relay League (ARRL), the ISS National Lab and National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEAM) topics by organizing scheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS and students in classrooms or public forms. Before and during these radio contacts, students, educators, parents, and communities learn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. For more information, see www.ariss.org.

?

********************************************************************************

ARISS Contact Applications (Europe, Africa and the Middle East)

?

Schools and Youth organizations in Europe, Africa and the Middle East interested in setting up an ARISS radio contact with an astronaut on board the International Space Station are invited to submit an application from September to October and from February to April.

Please refer to details and the application form at www.ariss-eu.org/school-contacts.? Applications should be addressed by email to:? school.selection.manager at ariss-eu.org

?

ARISS Contact Applications (Canada, Central and South America, Asia and Australia and Russia)

?

Organizations outside the United States can apply for an ARISS contact by filling out an application.? Please direct questions to the appropriate regional representative listed below. If your country is not specifically listed, send your questions to the nearest ARISS Region listed. If you are unsure which address to use, please send your question to the ARISS-Canada representative; they will forward your question to the appropriate coordinator.

?

For the application, go to:? https://www.ariss.org/ariss-application.html.

ARISS-Canada and the Americas, except USA: Steve McFarlane, VE3TBD email to: ve3tbd at gmail.com

ARISS-Japan, Asia, Pacific and Australia: Satoshi Yasuda, 7M3TJZ email to: ariss at iaru-r3.org, Japan Amateur Radio League (JARL) https://www.jarl.org/

ARISS-Russia: Soyuz Radioljubitelei Rossii (SRR) https://srr.ru/

?

?

******************************************************************************

ARISS is always glad to receive listener reports for the above contacts.? ARISS thanks everyone in advance for their assistance.? Feel free to send your reports to aj9n at amsat.org or aj9n at aol.com.

?

Listen for the ISS on the downlink of 145.8? MHz.

?

*******************************************************************************

?

All ARISS contacts are made via the Kenwood radio unless otherwise noted.

?

*******************************************************************************


Several of you have sent me emails asking about the RAC ARISS website and 
not being able to get in. ?That has now been changed to https://www.ariss.org/

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

****************************************************************************

Looking for something new to do?? How about receiving DATV from the ISS?? Please note that the HamTV system has been brought back to earth for troubleshooting.? Please monitor ARISS-EU or ARISS-ON for the very latest news on the troubleshooting efforts.? 

?

If interested, then please go to the ARISS-EU website for complete details.? Look for the buttons indicating Ham Video.???????????? 

?

http://www.ariss-eu.org/

?

If you need some assistance, ARISS mentor Kerry N6IZW, might be able to provide some insight.? Contact Kerry at kbanke at sbcglobal.net

?

?

The HamTV webpage:? https://www.amsat-on.be/hamtv-summary/

?

?

****************************************************************************
ARISS congratulations the following mentors who have now mentored over 100 schools: 

?

Francesco IK?WGF with 140

Satoshi 7M3TJZ with 138 

Sergey RV3DR with 133 

Gaston ON4WF with 123

?

****************************************************************************

The webpages listed below were all reviewed for accuracy. Out of date 

webpages were removed, and new ones have been added.? If there are additional 

ARISS websites I need to know about, please let me know.

?

?

?

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school events is 1390. 

Each school counts as 1 event.?????????????????????????????????? 

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school contacts is 1323. 

Each contact may have multiple schools sharing the same time slot.

Total number of ARISS supported terrestrial contacts is 48. 

?

A complete year by year breakdown of the contacts may be found in the 

file.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf

?

Please feel free to contact me if more detailed statistics are needed.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



The following US states and entities have never had an ARISS contact:
South Dakota, Wyoming, American?Samoa, Guam, Northern Marianas Islands, and the Virgin Islands.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

?

QSL information may be found at:

https://www.ariss.org/qsl-cards.html

?

ISS callsigns: DP?ISS, IR?ISS, NA1SS, OR4ISS, RS?ISS

?

****************************************************************************



Frequency chart for packet, voice, and crossband repeater modes showing 

Doppler correction as of 2005-07-29 04:00 UTC

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/ISS_frequencies_and_Doppler_correction.rtf



Check out the Zoho reports of the ARISS contacts

?

https://reports.zoho.com/ZDBDataSheetView.cc?DBID=412218000000020415

****************************************************************************

?

Exp. 62 now on orbit 

Chris Cassidy KF5KDR

Anatoli Ivanishin

Ivan Vagner

?

SpaceX-Demo2 now on orbit 

Bob Behnken KE5GGX

Doug Hurley

?

****************************************************************************

73,

Charlie?Sufana AJ9N
One of the ARISS operation team mentors

?

?

?

?

?

?

?




From DCFox at rwglaw.com  Thu Jul  9 20:20:51 2020
From: DCFox at rwglaw.com (D. Craig Fox)
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 20:20:51 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] FoxDelta ST2-0417 USB setup help
In-Reply-To: <e40a1642-486b-c70c-ee29-19850aecc03d@k6ccc.org>
References: <e40a1642-486b-c70c-ee29-19850aecc03d@k6ccc.org>
Message-ID: <3159563ef23c467c865687ee2b98cbb6@RWGEX1.RWG.com>

Jim, I use SATPC with a serial/usb adapter so cannot speak to your specific set up. However, I recently set up my FoxDelta (serial) for full az/el and noting worked. It really stumped me until I realized I neglected to match the FD 9600 baud rate with the associated SATPC server baud rate. Once I corrected that, all worked as it should. So be sure baud rate is correctly set.

73, Craig
N6RSX 

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Jim Walls via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 7:21 PM
To: Amsat-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] FoxDelta ST2-0417 USB setup help

I recently bought a FoxDelta ST2-0417 USB rotor interface for my Yaesu
G-5500 rotor.? I have the ST-2 communicating with the rotor just fine. I can see the azimuth and elevation readout and using the ST2 pushbuttons, I can control both just fine. ? However, I can't get it to communicate properly with my computer.? I am running a Dell desktop under Windows 10 and have installed the CH360G driver.? The ST2 shows as
COM8 according the the device manager.? If I unplug the USB cable, the Device Manager confirms that COM8 goes away and when I plug the cable back in, COM8 returns.? I initially was trying to use Nova for Windows (which I have used for 20+ years).? I tried every software interface setting (using COM8) and the best I could get a couple weeks ago was Azimuth display and control (no elevation display, but it appeared that it tried to control elevation), but can't manage to replicate that today. Everything shows either 0.0 / 0.0 or ---- / ---- for the rotor pointing in Nova.
Somewhat out of desperation, I downloaded SatPC32 and can't even get that far.? As far as I can tell, every rotor type is expecting a parallel port interface.? Keep in mind that I have never seen SatPC32 until an hour ago, so that may be my issue.

My preference would be to use Nova for Windows, but if that can't be made to work, I CAN switch over to SatPC32.? In either case, the software will be used exclusively for rotor control and not doppler correction (not using a radio that supports that).


Do you have any suggestions?

--
73
-------------------------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
jim at k6ccc.org
Ofc:  818-548-4804
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


(If this message is spam, please report it to IT Dept.  Thank you.)

From hamsat at xs4all.nl  Thu Jul  9 20:40:56 2020
From: hamsat at xs4all.nl (Nico Janssen)
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 22:40:56 +0200
Subject: [amsat-bb] LunART - Luna Amateur Radio Transponder
Message-ID: <584e82d3-db8e-be4d-3add-f48e6e7961fa@xs4all.nl>


AMSAT-DL proposes the LunART - Luna Amateur Radio Transponder
on the ESA Large European Lander, which is to be launched to
the Moon:

https://ideas.esa.int/servlet/hype/IMT?userAction=Browse&templateName=&documentId=81f70b2b01f6993c1b76fb6b572ee6c5

73,
Nico PA0DLO



From hamsat at xs4all.nl  Thu Jul  9 20:44:26 2020
From: hamsat at xs4all.nl (Nico Janssen)
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 22:44:26 +0200
Subject: [amsat-bb] Lunar-OSCAR 94 / Longjiang 2 publication
Message-ID: <26f13326-9a6f-912d-7d04-e1857241477f@xs4all.nl>


This scientific publication describes the radio experiments on
Lunar-OSCAR 94 / Longjiang 2:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-17272-8

73,
Nico, PA0DLO



From k9qho67622 at comcast.net  Thu Jul  9 23:30:29 2020
From: k9qho67622 at comcast.net (MICHAEL WILLIAMS)
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 19:30:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [amsat-bb] 5500 Control Unit Switch
Message-ID: <2105160647.28606.1594337429680@connect.xfinity.com>

Greg,

Thanks for the valuable email. your info has been added to my 5500 manual. My question is, if they're still manufacturing the 5500, where's the switches coming from? Do they have stock for manufacturing but unavailable for spare parts? 

Thanks Mike (K9QHO)

From va6bmj at gmail.com  Fri Jul 10 04:33:43 2020
From: va6bmj at gmail.com (B J)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 04:33:43 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Can't Control IC-910 Using Gpredict/Hamlib On Raspberry
	Pi
Message-ID: <CAP7QzkMN8ecJY8fUTuCOEqEBe1h7O8Y_Dz=cw+Br_KRL1V7ZsA@mail.gmail.com>

I recently installed Gpredict and Hamlib on my Raspberry Pi which runs
Raspbian.  I'm unable to control my IC-910 because of a known bug.

I'd like to rebuild them from source code and I've located a patch.  The
thing is that the patch is a directory, not a single file.  I don't
normally work with Linux and I have no idea how to apply that patch
directory to the original code.

Does anyone know how to go about it?

I could try the brute-force method by physically adding or exchanging the
patch files, but I don't think that's a good idea.  I've found some
information on doing something like that using the commands "diff" and
"patch" but, when I tried those methods, I must have done something wrong
as I get some rather cryptic responses.

Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.

73s

Bernhard VA6BMJ @ DO33FL

From royldean at gmail.com  Fri Jul 10 12:11:59 2020
From: royldean at gmail.com (Roy Dean)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 08:11:59 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Can't Control IC-910 Using Gpredict/Hamlib On Raspberry
	Pi
Message-ID: <CADGPg2t=mU89q0tSaXrVpsf_=pGbMJrcK04dfhC5+1yBC1eMFw@mail.gmail.com>

Bernhard,

Have you tried the GPredict Forum?   Thats where I learned about the
910/9700 patch (but I don't own either so don't have experience).   I think
the patch author or Alex Csete would be happy to describe the process.

https://community.libre.space/c/gpredict/17

--Roy
K3RLD

From lgwn5400 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  9 18:38:03 2020
From: lgwn5400 at yahoo.com (Rosa & Robert Fitzpatrick)
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 18:38:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] huskysat-1
References: <458090142.2607709.1594319883700.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <458090142.2607709.1594319883700@mail.yahoo.com>

what is the latest status on huskysat-1.thank you?bob/kb5sqgGranbury tx?

From scott23192 at gmail.com  Fri Jul 10 14:47:39 2020
From: scott23192 at gmail.com (Scott)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 10:47:39 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] huskysat-1
In-Reply-To: <458090142.2607709.1594319883700@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <458090142.2607709.1594319883700.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<458090142.2607709.1594319883700@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAJCSnOa+ZTqJ8yHKF7PFmDRYZBZ8EK1v-XQim8eY9NK-soyXkA@mail.gmail.com>

I have tried the linear transponder numerous times & as recently as a day
or two ago with nothing heard.

-Scott,  K4KDR

======================


On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 9:13 AM Rosa & Robert Fitzpatrick via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> what is the latest status on huskysat-1.thank you bob/kb5sqgGranbury tx
>

From blkupspilot at mac.com  Fri Jul 10 15:02:14 2020
From: blkupspilot at mac.com (Sloan Davis)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 11:02:14 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] huskysat-1
In-Reply-To: <CAJCSnOa+ZTqJ8yHKF7PFmDRYZBZ8EK1v-XQim8eY9NK-soyXkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJCSnOa+ZTqJ8yHKF7PFmDRYZBZ8EK1v-XQim8eY9NK-soyXkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <10819F50-A6EA-47F0-A329-97F24F013717@mac.com>

I?m experiencing the same with (CAS-6) aka TO-108

Sloan 

> On Jul 10, 2020, at 10:48 AM, Scott via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?I have tried the linear transponder numerous times & as recently as a day
> or two ago with nothing heard.
> 
> -Scott,  K4KDR
> 
> ======================
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 9:13 AM Rosa & Robert Fitzpatrick via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> 
>> what is the latest status on huskysat-1.thank you bob/kb5sqgGranbury tx
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From aj9n at aol.com  Fri Jul 10 16:31:40 2020
From: aj9n at aol.com (aj9n at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 16:31:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-07-10 16:30
	UTC
References: <1926728266.3012288.1594398700671.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1926728266.3012288.1594398700671@mail.yahoo.com>


Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-07-10 16:30 UTC

?

Quick list of scheduled contacts and events:

?

Don Bosco Haacht Technisch en Beroepsonderwijs, Haacht, Belgium, Multi-point telebridge via AB1OC 

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be NA1SS 

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR 

Contact was successful: Fri 2020-07-10 10:49:51 UTC 27 deg (***)

?

International Aerospace School, Ufa, Russia, direct via TBD

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be RS?ISS 

The scheduled astronaut is Ivan Vagner 

Contact is go for Fri 2020-07-17 19:10 UTC 

?

########################################################################################################################################

A multi-point telebridge contact means that each student will be on the telebridge from their own home.

*************************************************

?

ARISS is very aware of the impact that COVID-19 is having on schools and the public in general.? As such, we may have last minute cancellations or postponements of school contacts.? As always, I will try to provide everyone with near-real-time updates.? 

?

The following schools have now been postponed or cancelled due to COVID-19:? 

?

Postponed:

No new schools

?

Cancelled:

Tarwater Elementary School, Chandler, AZ, direct via TBD (***)

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

?

Watch for future COVID-19 related announcements here also.

?

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

?

Note, all times are approximate. ?It is recommended that you do your own 

orbital prediction?or start listening about 10 minutes before the listed 

time. 

All dates and times listed follow International Standard ISO 8601 date and 

time format YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS

?

The complete schedule page has been updated as of?2020-07-10 16:30 UTC. (***)

Here you will find a listing of all scheduled?school contacts, and 

questions, other ISS related websites, IRLP and Echolink websites, and 

instructions for any contact that may be streamed live.

?

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf 

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.txt 

?

?

The successful school list has been updated as of 2020-07-10 16:30 UTC. (***)

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/Successful_ARISS_schools.rtf 

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

?

Message to US Educators

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States) 

?

The Proposal Window of February 1, 2020 to March 31, 2020 has now closed.

?

For future proposal information and more details such as expectations, proposal guidelines and proposal form, and dates and times of Information Webinars, go to www.ariss.org.

?

Please direct any questions to?ariss.us.education at gmail.com.

?

About ARISS:

?

Amateur Radio on the International Space Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radio societies and the space agencies that support the International Space Station (ISS).? In the United States, sponsors are the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio Relay League (ARRL), the ISS National Lab and National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEAM) topics by organizing scheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS and students in classrooms or public forms. Before and during these radio contacts, students, educators, parents, and communities learn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. For more information, see www.ariss.org.

?

********************************************************************************

ARISS Contact Applications (Europe, Africa and the Middle East)

?

Schools and Youth organizations in Europe, Africa and the Middle East interested in setting up an ARISS radio contact with an astronaut on board the International Space Station are invited to submit an application from September to October and from February to April.

Please refer to details and the application form at www.ariss-eu.org/school-contacts.? Applications should be addressed by email to:? school.selection.manager at ariss-eu.org

?

ARISS Contact Applications (Canada, Central and South America, Asia and Australia and Russia)

?

Organizations outside the United States can apply for an ARISS contact by filling out an application.? Please direct questions to the appropriate regional representative listed below. If your country is not specifically listed, send your questions to the nearest ARISS Region listed. If you are unsure which address to use, please send your question to the ARISS-Canada representative; they will forward your question to the appropriate coordinator.

?

For the application, go to:? https://www.ariss.org/ariss-application.html.

ARISS-Canada and the Americas, except USA: Steve McFarlane, VE3TBD email to: ve3tbd at gmail.com

ARISS-Japan, Asia, Pacific and Australia: Satoshi Yasuda, 7M3TJZ email to: ariss at iaru-r3.org, Japan Amateur Radio League (JARL) https://www.jarl.org/

ARISS-Russia: Soyuz Radioljubitelei Rossii (SRR) https://srr.ru/

?

?

******************************************************************************

ARISS is always glad to receive listener reports for the above contacts.? ARISS thanks everyone in advance for their assistance.? Feel free to send your reports to aj9n at amsat.org or aj9n at aol.com.

?

Listen for the ISS on the downlink of 145.8? MHz.

?

*******************************************************************************

?

All ARISS contacts are made via the Kenwood radio unless otherwise noted.

?

*******************************************************************************


Several of you have sent me emails asking about the RAC ARISS website and 
not being able to get in. ?That has now been changed to https://www.ariss.org/

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

****************************************************************************

Looking for something new to do?? How about receiving DATV from the ISS?? Please note that the HamTV system has been brought back to earth for troubleshooting.? Please monitor ARISS-EU or ARISS-ON for the very latest news on the troubleshooting efforts.? 

?

If interested, then please go to the ARISS-EU website for complete details.? Look for the buttons indicating Ham Video.???????????? 

?

http://www.ariss-eu.org/

?

If you need some assistance, ARISS mentor Kerry N6IZW, might be able to provide some insight.? Contact Kerry at kbanke at sbcglobal.net

?

?

The HamTV webpage:? https://www.amsat-on.be/hamtv-summary/

?

?

****************************************************************************
ARISS congratulations the following mentors who have now mentored over 100 schools: 

?

Francesco IK?WGF with 140

Satoshi 7M3TJZ with 138 

Sergey RV3DR with 133 

Gaston ON4WF with 123

?

****************************************************************************

The webpages listed below were all reviewed for accuracy. Out of date 

webpages were removed, and new ones have been added.? If there are additional 

ARISS websites I need to know about, please let me know.

?

?

?

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school events is 1391. (***)

Each school counts as 1 event.?????????????????????????????????? 

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school contacts is 1324. (***)

Each contact may have multiple schools sharing the same time slot.

Total number of ARISS supported terrestrial contacts is 48. 

?

A complete year by year breakdown of the contacts may be found in the 

file.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf

?

Please feel free to contact me if more detailed statistics are needed.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



The following US states and entities have never had an ARISS contact:
South Dakota, Wyoming, American?Samoa, Guam, Northern Marianas Islands, and the Virgin Islands.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

?

QSL information may be found at:

https://www.ariss.org/qsl-cards.html

?

ISS callsigns: DP?ISS, IR?ISS, NA1SS, OR4ISS, RS?ISS

?

****************************************************************************



Frequency chart for packet, voice, and crossband repeater modes showing 

Doppler correction as of 2005-07-29 04:00 UTC

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/ISS_frequencies_and_Doppler_correction.rtf



Check out the Zoho reports of the ARISS contacts

?

https://reports.zoho.com/ZDBDataSheetView.cc?DBID=412218000000020415

****************************************************************************

?

Exp. 62 now on orbit 

Chris Cassidy KF5KDR

Anatoli Ivanishin

Ivan Vagner

?

SpaceX-Demo2 now on orbit 

Bob Behnken KE5GGX

Doug Hurley

?

****************************************************************************

73,

Charlie?Sufana AJ9N
One of the ARISS operation team mentors

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?



From clayton at w5pfg.us  Fri Jul 10 20:00:19 2020
From: clayton at w5pfg.us (Clayton Coleman W5PFG)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 15:00:19 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation of 2018-2020 Legal Expenses
Message-ID: <008101d656f4$bd7022a0$385067e0$@w5pfg.us>

Dear AMSAT Member:

After fifty years of AMSAT providing amateur radio with a presence in space, the organization has recently become under attack by two of its own Directors. These two Directors, Thompson and Stoddard, began their attack on the organization with a series of accusations and threats starting in 2018.  In response, the President of AMSAT under the authority of the Board of Directors, sought legal counsel to protect the organization and receive guidance. As a result of those authorized legal services, AMSAT adopted one new policy and modernized another. There were several other legal expenditures related to the continued threats along with some operational legal expenditures including trademark renewal and space policy development. By alleging that some of the legal expenditures driven by their own actions were ?unauthorized,? both Directors Thompson and Stoddard have attempted to disrupt and possibly defame the organization to which they were elected to serve. To publicly attack the integrity and honor of all those who previously served as Officers and Directors of AMSAT while making egregious claims is shameful. Throughout this entire saga, AMSAT acted in an appropriate manner consistent with what is required of a corporation.

The AMSAT Board of Directors and Senior Officers were advised by President Joe Spier in March 2018 that Michelle Thompson had made complaints of discrimination and harassment against several Officers and Directors. The President was concerned about a possible lawsuit against AMSAT and was especially concerned that the fact that AMSAT did not have a policy against discrimination or harassment could lead to a default judgment against the Corporation in any lawsuit. With full knowledge and consent of the Board, the President retained an attorney both to develop a non-discrimination and non-harassment policy and to advise him while handling the complaints under the new policy. In April 2018, the Board unanimously passed the attorney-developed policy. An investigation was then conducted, with the President reporting the results to the Board in May 2018. With no credible accusations found to be in violation of AMSAT?s policies, the complaints were closed.  

In the Spring of 2019, after months of public personal attacks by Patrick Stoddard against an AMSAT Director related to his duties as Vice President - Operations, the President decided to act. With the full knowledge and consent of the Board, the President sought legal counsel to advise him on proposed sanctions against Patrick Stoddard. The extent of the sanctions was a temporary moderation of his posting status on the AMSAT-BB email reflector and revocation of his IT system access. This situation resulted in an attorney-developed revision to the AMSAT Acceptable Use Policy that the Board unanimously passed in June 2019.

In July 2019, Patrick Stoddard complained that the Secretary?s execution of the Board of Directors Election was contrary to our bylaws. It was mirrored by online claims that the Secretary was inept, and that the election would be conducted illegally. The President and Secretary, again with the full knowledge and consent of the Board, sought legal advice on the conduct of the election under our bylaws. 
?
Following the 2019 election, the President continued to work with an attorney on a conflict of interest policy related to a newly elected AMSAT Director for a potentially competing organization. Specifically, Director Thompson is a Director of Open Research Institute which solicits funding for amateur radio satellite service projects. Current AMSAT governing documents are not equipped to handle these potential conflicts. Being that Open Research Institute sent a campaign mailing in 2019?s Board of Directors election, there is at minimum the appearance of conflict with regards to Director Thompson. AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to Open Research Institute.

The 2019 Board Meeting held on October 16-17 in Arlington, VA was the first face-to-face meeting that included Directors Thompson and Stoddard as voting members. During that meeting, it was discovered that Director Stoddard was secretly recording the meeting without the knowledge or permission of other Board Members, AMSAT officers, or others that were sitting as observers. Often, privacy laws require that any recordings be done with the consent of those being recorded.  In the past, the AMSAT Secretary may record the meeting to assist in the development of meeting minutes, but such recording was done with the full knowledge and acceptance of the Board.  When Director Stoddard was asked about his recording, he stated that it was for personal use only.  The Board, well aware of the ?sensitivities? between Board members, made the reluctant decision to allow Director Stoddard to continue his personal recording following his assurance that nothing from the recording would be shared with others outside the Board. Following the Symposium, Director Stoddard did not offer to share his recording with other Board members. He then used the recording to publicly quote others without their permission with intent to take things out of context which means he broke his commitment to keep the recordings ?personal?. This of course has further eroded trust within the Board and reduces Director Stoddard?s reputation for keeping promises made to his Board colleagues.  

In January 2020, a demand letter arrived at AMSAT from an attorney representing Directors Thompson and Stoddard. The demand letter alleged AMSAT was preventing the Directors from performing their duties by denying access to corporate record, specifically an archive of the previous Board of Directors? email discussions. After enduring months of demands by Directors Thompson and Stoddard, President Spier resigned the next day after receiving the demand letter. The Executive Vice President of AMSAT contacted the attorney for guidance to deal with the issue. Shortly thereafter, a new President was elected and continued to work through this issue with the attorney. The new President made a decision quickly to ensure no corporate records would be denied access to any Director, ensured the email archives were restored to visible status, and made a public statement affirming the position of transparency and equal access to corporate records.

None of this was kept secret from the Board. AMSAT never sought legal advice to harass or intimidate members or candidates as alleged by Directors Thompson and Stoddard. Legal services were retained to provide guidance to the organization on the handling of unique situations that AMSAT had never faced before. 

While these legal expenses were an unfortunate use of funds that could have been used for AMSAT projects, the Board and Senior Officers believed it to be necessary to protect the Corporation. Additionally, AMSAT gained a firm policy on handling allegations of discrimination and harassment as well as a modernized Acceptable Use Policy for our email message boards.

Allegations have been made that other "unauthorized" legal expenses were incurred to another attorney. These "unauthorized" expenses relate directly to AMSAT's mission - our trademark attorney that has been renewing AMSAT's trademarks for many years. This is a standard, periodic administrative expense of the Corporation. Allegations have also been made that the officers exceeded a cap that the Board imposed on expenses to another firm. The Board capped expenses related to the development of an ITAR/EAR policy. A few thousand dollars of the total disbursements to that firm were related to legal advice concerning the exportation of Linear Transponder Modules to Canada under our partnership with the Radio Amateurs of Canada. This was an Engineering project expense related to, but distinct from the eventual development and adoption of an ITAR/EAR policy. These expenses were, as before, undertaken with the full knowledge and consent of the Board.

It is absurd for two newly elected board members to make accusations of unauthorized expenditures when it was in part the actions of Directors Thompson and Stoddard prior to their election that forced the Board at that time to take appropriate action to seek legal counsel to protect the corporation.

The only power that Directors have is when the Board is in session and Board members make their vote.  Individual Directors do not dictate day-to-day management of the Corporation but instead have oversight as a Board. Likewise, the President is elected by the Board and is responsible for the day-to-day management of the Corporation, keeping the Board informed of events and actions that have a significant impact on AMSAT. When appropriate, the Board votes on key decisions and strategic direction. At other times, the President when informing the Board of key concerns, provides the Board an opportunity to provide feedback and consensus. Unless the Board provides guidance to modify the President?s intended actions, the President has done due diligence in keeping the Board apprised of actions that will be taken. 

The effectiveness of a Director is based on how well that individual can work with their colleagues and create an atmosphere of collaboration and common purpose.  Threats, innuendo, and public shaming via Internet blogs do not create an atmosphere for honest and respectful discussion. A poisonous atmosphere makes it impossible for good ideas to be heard.  Such an environment causes further mistrust when an accuser does not ask questions in a nonthreatening manner to better understand how the Board takes actions or how it functions before making judgements or public accusations. 

Despite these unfortunate distractions by Directors Thompson and Stoddard, many dedicated volunteers work every day fulfilling AMSAT?s promise to Keep Amateur Radio in Space. Thank you for being a member and supporting AMSAT. 

Signed on behalf of AMSAT,

Clayton Coleman, W5PFG
President 2020-Present
Director 2017-2019
Secretary 2017-2019

Co-signed by:

Dr. Tom Clark, K3IO
Director 1974-Present
President Emeritus

Martha Saragovitz
Manager 1977-Present

Keith Baker, KB1SF
Treasurer 2010-2019
Director 1994-2003
Past President

Robert Bankston, CPA, KE4AL
Treasurer 2019-Present

Jerry Buxton, N0JY
Director 2014-Present
Vice President ? Engineering 2014-Present

Drew Glasbrenner, KO4MA 
Director 2007-2013, 2014-Present
Vice President ? Operations 2006-Present

Dr. Mark Hammond, N8MH
Director 2013-2015, 2016-Present

Bruce Paige, KK5DO
Director 2002-2004, 2016-Present

Paul Stoetzer, N8HM
Executive Vice President 2017-Present
Director 2017-2019
	
Referenced policies are available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/


From corlissbs at aol.com  Fri Jul 10 22:36:00 2020
From: corlissbs at aol.com (Brad Smith)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 22:36:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] The Explanition Has Come
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6367.1594398705.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.6367.1594398705.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <818534523.5699697.1594420560773@mail.yahoo.com>

The email, "AMSAT Leadership Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses," which I assume all members received, made me think of the words of an oldie song that has the words, "I wish that i could be the president, so I could show you how your money's spent." In this case, it appears that the money was spent to, at the advice of hired layers, keep two duly elected directors from assuming their rightful role. So, the legal answer must have been to segregate them, into a second class status. Is this really legal, and in keeping with the bylaws of AMSAT? Why would the board do this? What are they hiding and from whom? I may be just a dumb, retired, Midwestern engineer, but even I can see thru this one. Talk about smoke and mirrors.
I am going to assume that it was legal for the board to select a new president, and that the membership has nothing to do with that. This whole situation has the appearance of a game where people have been trying to find a way to legally block other people from assuming their duties. Sounds like Washington politics to me.
Some members have resigned their membership over this. I am here to say that I do not condone this form of reaction. In my humble opinion, (and some of you know how humble I am) if you are on the birds, you should financially support the organization. Exception would be if one couldn't afford it, of course.
Respectfully,Brad KC9UQR


From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Fri Jul 10 22:53:21 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 15:53:21 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] The Explanition Has Come
In-Reply-To: <818534523.5699697.1594420560773@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.6367.1594398705.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<818534523.5699697.1594420560773@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2VFrydTmtsauNnUsniYD+3455vS3MRaPyJedGgjBcpiBA@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you Brad.

No, the expenditures were not legal or proper. I believe that we were able
to end them. We can leave behavior like that permanently in the past, with
a change of management.

Please, if you are able to vote in the upcoming election, do not return the
incumbents to the board.

I appreciate your mention of fundraising.

I just helped complete a very successful fundraiser for AMSAT engineering.
Thank you to all that participated, provided support, and helped spread the
word. We raised nearly $2,000.

-Michelle Thompson W5NYV



On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 3:38 PM Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> The email, "AMSAT Leadership Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses," which I
> assume all members received, made me think of the words of an oldie song
> that has the words, "I wish that i could be the president, so I could show
> you how your money's spent." In this case, it appears that the money was
> spent to, at the advice of hired layers, keep two duly elected directors
> from assuming their rightful role. So, the legal answer must have been to
> segregate them, into a second class status. Is this really legal, and in
> keeping with the bylaws of AMSAT? Why would the board do this? What are
> they hiding and from whom? I may be just a dumb, retired, Midwestern
> engineer, but even I can see thru this one. Talk about smoke and mirrors.
> I am going to assume that it was legal for the board to select a new
> president, and that the membership has nothing to do with that. This whole
> situation has the appearance of a game where people have been trying to
> find a way to legally block other people from assuming their duties. Sounds
> like Washington politics to me.
> Some members have resigned their membership over this. I am here to say
> that I do not condone this form of reaction. In my humble opinion, (and
> some of you know how humble I am) if you are on the birds, you should
> financially support the organization. Exception would be if one couldn't
> afford it, of course.
> Respectfully,Brad KC9UQR
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Fri Jul 10 23:02:21 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 18:02:21 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Modeling the AA2TX Parasitic Lindenblad
Message-ID: <1d71c7c1-2ee1-92cc-5d44-bd51d562c65b@pobox.com>


Hello folks,

I've been intrigued by Tony's Parasitic Lindenblad ever since I first 
read about it. I have a center section in CAD, suitable for 3D printing 
in PET-G, which eliminates the messy gluing, etc. and gives me a chance 
to use my printer. :-)

However, I'd like to eliminate the requirement for the 0.750" OD 
aluminum mast and replace it with 0.650" OD (name: 1/2") copper water 
pipe, which can be readily found in any hardware store. Given the 
appropriate paint coating, copper pipe has held up well over many years 
at my QTH when exposed to the elements.

I am using Xnec2c on FreeBSD, but any NEC program should be able to use 
the deck, to model the antenna. However, my dimensions don't seem to 
match what Tony came up with. Are there any NEC gurus in the audience?

Here's my sophomore stab at the antenna deck:

CM --- NEC2 Input File created or edited by xnec2c 3.4 ---
CM AA2TX Parasitic Lindenblad -- All distances in meters
CM Goal is to use 1/2" copper water pipe for dipole element (0.650" OD) 
instead of 3/4" OD aluminum pole
CE --- End Comments ---
GW     1    15   0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00 -1.39000E-01  0.00000E+00 
0.00000E+00  1.39000E-01  1.58750E-02
GW     2    15   2.58000E-01  8.50000E-02  1.49000E-01 -2.58000E-01 
8.50000E-02 -1.49000E-01  1.50000E-03
GW     3    15  -2.58000E-01 -8.50000E-02  1.49000E-01  2.58000E-01 
-8.50000E-02 -1.49000E-01  1.50000E-03
GW     4    15   8.50000E-02  2.58000E-01 -1.49000E-01  8.50000E-02 
-2.58000E-01  1.49000E-01  1.50000E-03
GW     5    15  -8.50000E-02  2.58000E-01  1.49000E-01 -8.50000E-02 
-2.58000E-01 -1.49000E-01  1.50000E-03
GE     0     0   0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00 
0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
EX     0     1     8      0  1.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00 
0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
FR     0    20     0      0  4.30000E+02  1.00000E+00  0.00000E+00 
0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
NH     0     0     0      0  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00 
0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
NE     0    10     1     10 -1.35000E+00  0.00000E+00 -1.35000E+00 
3.00000E-01  0.00000E+00  3.00000E-01
RP     0    19    37   1000  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  1.00000E+01 
1.00000E+01  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
EN     0     0     0      0  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00 
0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00

Questions that arise from an afternoon of fiddling with this:

1) Should I model the driven element as two wires with the 1/4" gap 
between them? If so, how would I do this?

2) Will the 0.100" difference in OD make enough of a difference to even 
go through this exercise?

Any and all comments, especially from NEC gurus, appreciated!

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From rwyrwas48 at gmail.com  Fri Jul 10 23:19:57 2020
From: rwyrwas48 at gmail.com (Rick Wyrwas)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 18:19:57 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] The Explanition Has Come
In-Reply-To: <818534523.5699697.1594420560773@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.6367.1594398705.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<818534523.5699697.1594420560773@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAFeVdEPz85nuVc8ef6PUCkm6_NQ3kMwD6eCmbCHa4CdTXYejcw@mail.gmail.com>

I am demanding that Clayton resign immediately

R Wyrwas
WA9JBQ

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 5:38 PM Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> The email, "AMSAT Leadership Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses," which I
> assume all members received, made me think of the words of an oldie song
> that has the words, "I wish that i could be the president, so I could show
> you how your money's spent." In this case, it appears that the money was
> spent to, at the advice of hired layers, keep two duly elected directors
> from assuming their rightful role. So, the legal answer must have been to
> segregate them, into a second class status. Is this really legal, and in
> keeping with the bylaws of AMSAT? Why would the board do this? What are
> they hiding and from whom? I may be just a dumb, retired, Midwestern
> engineer, but even I can see thru this one. Talk about smoke and mirrors.
> I am going to assume that it was legal for the board to select a new
> president, and that the membership has nothing to do with that. This whole
> situation has the appearance of a game where people have been trying to
> find a way to legally block other people from assuming their duties. Sounds
> like Washington politics to me.
> Some members have resigned their membership over this. I am here to say
> that I do not condone this form of reaction. In my humble opinion, (and
> some of you know how humble I am) if you are on the birds, you should
> financially support the organization. Exception would be if one couldn't
> afford it, of course.
> Respectfully,Brad KC9UQR
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
-- 
Rick Wyrwas

From wa7fwf at gmail.com  Fri Jul 10 23:24:23 2020
From: wa7fwf at gmail.com (Kevin)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 16:24:23 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] The Explanition Has Come
In-Reply-To: <818534523.5699697.1594420560773@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.6367.1594398705.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<818534523.5699697.1594420560773@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b58532af-8759-f02a-9523-8299b6a30b1f@gmail.com>

Or is it a couple newbies to the board didn't get what they wanted when 
they wanted it and then decided to make a big fuss over it? and? AMSAT 
decided maybe some legal guidance was in order? which IMHO probably 
wasn't a bad idea.

I have confidence in the board and that with time this will all be 
worked out.

Kevin WA7FWF #19623





On 7/10/2020 3:36 PM, Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> The email, "AMSAT Leadership Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses," which I assume all members received, made me think of the words of an oldie song that has the words, "I wish that i could be the president, so I could show you how your money's spent." In this case, it appears that the money was spent to, at the advice of hired layers, keep two duly elected directors from assuming their rightful role. So, the legal answer must have been to segregate them, into a second class status. Is this really legal, and in keeping with the bylaws of AMSAT? Why would the board do this? What are they hiding and from whom? I may be just a dumb, retired, Midwestern engineer, but even I can see thru this one. Talk about smoke and mirrors.
> I am going to assume that it was legal for the board to select a new president, and that the membership has nothing to do with that. This whole situation has the appearance of a game where people have been trying to find a way to legally block other people from assuming their duties. Sounds like Washington politics to me.
> Some members have resigned their membership over this. I am here to say that I do not condone this form of reaction. In my humble opinion, (and some of you know how humble I am) if you are on the birds, you should financially support the organization. Exception would be if one couldn't afford it, of course.
> Respectfully,Brad KC9UQR
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From nss at mwt.net  Fri Jul 10 23:27:24 2020
From: nss at mwt.net (Joe)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 18:27:24 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Mac Doppler
Message-ID: <ea346ce8-7091-432b-15c1-e996319e2640@mwt.net>

A buddy of mine just installed MacDoppler

It seems to work great but he sent me a video that doesn't make sense to me.

It is controlling his radio changing freqs as needed to account for 
Doppler.? BUT... I have never seen this before.

the 144 band was changing one way in freq and the 440 band the other 
way.? Huh? That doesn't seem right in my head.

anyone care to maybe explain whats happening?

Joe WB9SBD


From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Fri Jul 10 23:41:54 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 16:41:54 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Modeling the AA2TX Parasitic Lindenblad
In-Reply-To: <1d71c7c1-2ee1-92cc-5d44-bd51d562c65b@pobox.com>
References: <1d71c7c1-2ee1-92cc-5d44-bd51d562c65b@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2V93dQgbh=535BpkEWvRZipEnX6y_06yg=bzsHbhO5b_g@mail.gmail.com>

Would HFSS help?

If you have a sketch, then I have someone that can model it at no cost.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 4:05 PM Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

>
> Hello folks,
>
> I've been intrigued by Tony's Parasitic Lindenblad ever since I first
> read about it. I have a center section in CAD, suitable for 3D printing
> in PET-G, which eliminates the messy gluing, etc. and gives me a chance
> to use my printer. :-)
>
> However, I'd like to eliminate the requirement for the 0.750" OD
> aluminum mast and replace it with 0.650" OD (name: 1/2") copper water
> pipe, which can be readily found in any hardware store. Given the
> appropriate paint coating, copper pipe has held up well over many years
> at my QTH when exposed to the elements.
>
> I am using Xnec2c on FreeBSD, but any NEC program should be able to use
> the deck, to model the antenna. However, my dimensions don't seem to
> match what Tony came up with. Are there any NEC gurus in the audience?
>
> Here's my sophomore stab at the antenna deck:
>
> CM --- NEC2 Input File created or edited by xnec2c 3.4 ---
> CM AA2TX Parasitic Lindenblad -- All distances in meters
> CM Goal is to use 1/2" copper water pipe for dipole element (0.650" OD)
> instead of 3/4" OD aluminum pole
> CE --- End Comments ---
> GW     1    15   0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00 -1.39000E-01  0.00000E+00
> 0.00000E+00  1.39000E-01  1.58750E-02
> GW     2    15   2.58000E-01  8.50000E-02  1.49000E-01 -2.58000E-01
> 8.50000E-02 -1.49000E-01  1.50000E-03
> GW     3    15  -2.58000E-01 -8.50000E-02  1.49000E-01  2.58000E-01
> -8.50000E-02 -1.49000E-01  1.50000E-03
> GW     4    15   8.50000E-02  2.58000E-01 -1.49000E-01  8.50000E-02
> -2.58000E-01  1.49000E-01  1.50000E-03
> GW     5    15  -8.50000E-02  2.58000E-01  1.49000E-01 -8.50000E-02
> -2.58000E-01 -1.49000E-01  1.50000E-03
> GE     0     0   0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
> 0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
> EX     0     1     8      0  1.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
> 0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
> FR     0    20     0      0  4.30000E+02  1.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
> 0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
> NH     0     0     0      0  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
> 0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
> NE     0    10     1     10 -1.35000E+00  0.00000E+00 -1.35000E+00
> 3.00000E-01  0.00000E+00  3.00000E-01
> RP     0    19    37   1000  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  1.00000E+01
> 1.00000E+01  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
> EN     0     0     0      0  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
> 0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
>
> Questions that arise from an afternoon of fiddling with this:
>
> 1) Should I model the driven element as two wires with the 1/4" gap
> between them? If so, how would I do this?
>
> 2) Will the 0.100" difference in OD make enough of a difference to even
> go through this exercise?
>
> Any and all comments, especially from NEC gurus, appreciated!
>
> --- Zach
> N0ZGO
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc  Fri Jul 10 23:42:23 2020
From: wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc (Burns Fisher)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 19:42:23 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Mac Doppler
In-Reply-To: <ea346ce8-7091-432b-15c1-e996319e2640@mwt.net>
References: <ea346ce8-7091-432b-15c1-e996319e2640@mwt.net>
Message-ID: <CABX7KxWMRW_4FhyXFoTgBH5WOphRPC6X10+mYxTg35__UggxHw@mail.gmail.com>

He must have been tuning while he was looking at an inverting linear
transponder.  That is, the downlink frequency goes up while the downlin
frequency goes down as you tune across the passband.  The doppler
correction will always be in the same direction.

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 7:32 PM Joe via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> A buddy of mine just installed MacDoppler
>
> It seems to work great but he sent me a video that doesn't make sense to
> me.
>
> It is controlling his radio changing freqs as needed to account for
> Doppler.  BUT... I have never seen this before.
>
> the 144 band was changing one way in freq and the 440 band the other
> way.  Huh? That doesn't seem right in my head.
>
> anyone care to maybe explain whats happening?
>
> Joe WB9SBD
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From corlissbs at aol.com  Sat Jul 11 00:02:27 2020
From: corlissbs at aol.com (Brad Smith)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 00:02:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6367.1594398705.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.6367.1594398705.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <394533430.5725037.1594425747041@mail.yahoo.com>

I will second Rick's request. The past actions against the new board members showed the poorest leadership that I have ever seen. The ethics of this action eroded away any confidence that I had in this board.
73 Brad KC9UQR

From dave at druidnetworks.com  Sat Jul 11 00:14:34 2020
From: dave at druidnetworks.com (David Swanson)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 19:14:34 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] The Explanition Has Come
In-Reply-To: <b58532af-8759-f02a-9523-8299b6a30b1f@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6367.1594398705.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<818534523.5699697.1594420560773@mail.yahoo.com>
	<b58532af-8759-f02a-9523-8299b6a30b1f@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANq+eyVzd5yPBHDaHUyHeL2hfWF5rvAEMjZov3kXP2p8cJpHdQ@mail.gmail.com>

Director Thompson and Director Stoddard should immediately resign their
positions. Their actions are unbecoming of this organization, the
community, and a stain on ham radio.

Dave, KG5CCI.

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 6:26 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Or is it a couple newbies to the board didn't get what they wanted when
> they wanted it and then decided to make a big fuss over it? and  AMSAT
> decided maybe some legal guidance was in order? which IMHO probably
> wasn't a bad idea.
>
> I have confidence in the board and that with time this will all be
> worked out.
>
> Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7/10/2020 3:36 PM, Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > The email, "AMSAT Leadership Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses," which I
> assume all members received, made me think of the words of an oldie song
> that has the words, "I wish that i could be the president, so I could show
> you how your money's spent." In this case, it appears that the money was
> spent to, at the advice of hired layers, keep two duly elected directors
> from assuming their rightful role. So, the legal answer must have been to
> segregate them, into a second class status. Is this really legal, and in
> keeping with the bylaws of AMSAT? Why would the board do this? What are
> they hiding and from whom? I may be just a dumb, retired, Midwestern
> engineer, but even I can see thru this one. Talk about smoke and mirrors.
> > I am going to assume that it was legal for the board to select a new
> president, and that the membership has nothing to do with that. This whole
> situation has the appearance of a game where people have been trying to
> find a way to legally block other people from assuming their duties. Sounds
> like Washington politics to me.
> > Some members have resigned their membership over this. I am here to say
> that I do not condone this form of reaction. In my humble opinion, (and
> some of you know how humble I am) if you are on the birds, you should
> financially support the organization. Exception would be if one couldn't
> afford it, of course.
> > Respectfully,Brad KC9UQR
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From nss at mwt.net  Sat Jul 11 00:15:42 2020
From: nss at mwt.net (Joe)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 19:15:42 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Mac Doppler
In-Reply-To: <CABX7KxWMRW_4FhyXFoTgBH5WOphRPC6X10+mYxTg35__UggxHw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ea346ce8-7091-432b-15c1-e996319e2640@mwt.net>
	<CABX7KxWMRW_4FhyXFoTgBH5WOphRPC6X10+mYxTg35__UggxHw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4e673800-802b-10dd-19a4-6eef6d835559@mwt.net>

Nope he wasn't touching anything the Mac Doppler was doing it all? all 
by itself.

Joe WB9SBD

On 7/10/2020 6:42 PM, Burns Fisher via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> He must have been tuning while he was looking at an inverting linear
> transponder.  That is, the downlink frequency goes up while the downlin
> frequency goes down as you tune across the passband.  The doppler
> correction will always be in the same direction.
>
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 7:32 PM Joe via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> A buddy of mine just installed MacDoppler
>>
>> It seems to work great but he sent me a video that doesn't make sense to
>> me.
>>
>> It is controlling his radio changing freqs as needed to account for
>> Doppler.  BUT... I have never seen this before.
>>
>> the 144 band was changing one way in freq and the 440 band the other
>> way.  Huh? That doesn't seem right in my head.
>>
>> anyone care to maybe explain whats happening?
>>
>> Joe WB9SBD
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


From clintbradford at mac.com  Sat Jul 11 00:16:46 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:16:46 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation ...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6428.1594425753.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.6428.1594425753.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <86224682-DB1E-4C42-8BFF-D4834983FAC8@mac.com>

For the good of AMSAT, to ensure our enjoyment of future amateur satellites, and for the general good of amateur radio:

Thompson and Stoddard need to resign. Now.

Clint Bradford


From nss at mwt.net  Sat Jul 11 00:18:59 2020
From: nss at mwt.net (Joe)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 19:18:59 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Mac Doppler
In-Reply-To: <5B334BB3-5C36-4BD8-A972-A702775461AF@gmail.com>
References: <ea346ce8-7091-432b-15c1-e996319e2640@mwt.net>
	<5B334BB3-5C36-4BD8-A972-A702775461AF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fdcd82ec-a71e-5a34-cea0-25bd803dc63f@mwt.net>

aHHH tHAT MAKES TOTAL SENSE TO ME NOW!

jOE wb9sbd

opps cAPLOCK

He is thinking on getting on the birds and asked me to help because I 
did do it many many years ago. he just bought a 9700. so is all excited.

Any suggestions to send to him as to what birds to shhot for as well as 
antenna systems?

Joe WB9SBD

On 7/10/2020 6:59 PM, Paul Williamson wrote:
> MacDoppler is correct.
>
> Doppler shift changes the effective frequency of a radio signal in 
> transit. When the satellite is coming toward you, the frequency of 
> both the uplink and downlink signal is increased by Doppler shift. The 
> goal of the computerized tuning is to maintain a constant frequency 
> *at the satellite*.
>
> So, consider first the uplink (your transmitter), and assume the 
> satellite is coming toward you. The computer needs to shift its 
> frequency DOWN, so that after Doppler has up-shifted the signal it 
> will arrive at the satellite on frequency. Now consider the downlink. 
> That is, the satellite?s transmitter (your receiver). That signal is 
> where it is, when it leaves the satellite. Then it gets shifted UP by 
> Doppler. In order to receive this signal, your receiver will need to 
> shift UP to match. Thus your two radios need to shift in opposite 
> directions to compensate for Doppler.
>
> Note that this is independent of whether the transponder is inverting 
> or not.
>
> For some discussion of why the goal has to be constant frequency at 
> the satellite, see my ancient article on The One True Rule for Doppler 
> Tuning, presently hosted at https://www.amsat.org/tag/tuning/
>
> 73 -Paul KB5MU
>
>> On Jul 10, 2020, at 4:27 PM, Joe via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>> ?A buddy of mine just installed MacDoppler
>>
>> It seems to work great but he sent me a video that doesn't make sense 
>> to me.
>>
>> It is controlling his radio changing freqs as needed to account for 
>> Doppler. ?BUT... I have never seen this before.
>>
>> the 144 band was changing one way in freq and the 440 band the other 
>> way. ?Huh? That doesn't seem right in my head.
>>
>> anyone care to maybe explain whats happening?
>>
>> Joe WB9SBD
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. 
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views 
>> of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite 
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>


From marklhammond at gmail.com  Sat Jul 11 00:33:24 2020
From: marklhammond at gmail.com (Mark L. Hammond)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 20:33:24 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Mac Doppler
In-Reply-To: <ea346ce8-7091-432b-15c1-e996319e2640@mwt.net>
References: <ea346ce8-7091-432b-15c1-e996319e2640@mwt.net>
Message-ID: <CAPRXzyrmNfzcF8eihvxMB517sxfHU6py7J2PjGy8V1Du-2HMhA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Joe, sounds right. In the shack?Downlink Doppler goes down, uplink
Doppler goes up.    Think I?m saying that right!

Mark N8MH

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 7:31 PM Joe via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> A buddy of mine just installed MacDoppler
>
> It seems to work great but he sent me a video that doesn't make sense to
> me.
>
> It is controlling his radio changing freqs as needed to account for
> Doppler.  BUT... I have never seen this before.
>
> the 144 band was changing one way in freq and the 440 band the other
> way.  Huh? That doesn't seem right in my head.
>
> anyone care to maybe explain whats happening?
>
> Joe WB9SBD
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
-- 
Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
AMSAT Director and Command Station

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Sat Jul 11 00:45:01 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:45:01 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] The Explanition Has Come
In-Reply-To: <CANq+eyVzd5yPBHDaHUyHeL2hfWF5rvAEMjZov3kXP2p8cJpHdQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6367.1594398705.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<818534523.5699697.1594420560773@mail.yahoo.com>
	<b58532af-8759-f02a-9523-8299b6a30b1f@gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyVzd5yPBHDaHUyHeL2hfWF5rvAEMjZov3kXP2p8cJpHdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2UyX5zvOPVGhqmPbLLyNNDykc+CY5cvnmMtnpoa0ZKJsQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not sure anyone is going to take you very seriously, since you have
repeatedly and stridently yelped for my resignation, since the day I was
elected, for:

1) Playing Pokemon GO (somehow that's a firing offense... "GO figure")
2) Having a pile of books fall over on my desk (somehow I can't serve as a
Director because I tweeted about having too many books)
3) Pointing out (privately) that sexist language doesn't belong in AMSAT
management.
4) Pointing out (privately) that official social media accounts weren't
doing what they promised to do.
5) Being at Comic-Con.
6) Promoting microwave broadband digital birds.
7) Having the nerve to found a 501(c)(3) dedicated to open source R&D for
amateur radio and beyond.
8) Breathing.

Please notice that I have yet to squall for anyone's resignation. I am
ready and willing to work with anyone. I am ready to defend Clayton despite
the authorship of this very regrettable admission of AMSAT failing to
follow its own bylaws or DC corporate code. I actually liked working with
him. He has permission to share any private messages I've sent him.

I do appreciate the opportunity you have given me to share my report.

https://w5nyv.blogspot.com/2020/07/report-to-members-8-amsat-na-board-of.html

This is the 8th in a series. I ran on transparency, trust, and technology.

I'm an activist.

If you elect an activist, expect activism. Some of what I found is
obviously uncomfortable. The incumbents have reacted in entirely
predictable ways. If the members want comfortable waste firmly ensconced in
the past, then go ahead, re-elect the incumbents.

I've raised real money for AMSAT R&D this year. It adds up to over $65k.
Open Research Institute is an AMSAT Member Society. That means that it's
recognized as an asset to AMSAT, works for AMSAT's interests, and attacking
it is just plain stupid.

I've confronted the board about unauthorized spending. I brought receipts.

Patrick deserves the majority of the credit for stopping this obscenely
wasteful practice of hiring lawyers on the sly.

Fiducial responsibility is really all we as Directors are required to do.
This is basic oversight of an organization. Unlike other things we do, it's
not rocket science.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 5:26 PM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Director Thompson and Director Stoddard should immediately resign their
> positions. Their actions are unbecoming of this organization, the
> community, and a stain on ham radio.
>
> Dave, KG5CCI.
>
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 6:26 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Or is it a couple newbies to the board didn't get what they wanted when
> > they wanted it and then decided to make a big fuss over it? and  AMSAT
> > decided maybe some legal guidance was in order? which IMHO probably
> > wasn't a bad idea.
> >
> > I have confidence in the board and that with time this will all be
> > worked out.
> >
> > Kevin WA7FWF #19623
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 7/10/2020 3:36 PM, Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > > The email, "AMSAT Leadership Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses," which
> I
> > assume all members received, made me think of the words of an oldie song
> > that has the words, "I wish that i could be the president, so I could
> show
> > you how your money's spent." In this case, it appears that the money was
> > spent to, at the advice of hired layers, keep two duly elected directors
> > from assuming their rightful role. So, the legal answer must have been to
> > segregate them, into a second class status. Is this really legal, and in
> > keeping with the bylaws of AMSAT? Why would the board do this? What are
> > they hiding and from whom? I may be just a dumb, retired, Midwestern
> > engineer, but even I can see thru this one. Talk about smoke and mirrors.
> > > I am going to assume that it was legal for the board to select a new
> > president, and that the membership has nothing to do with that. This
> whole
> > situation has the appearance of a game where people have been trying to
> > find a way to legally block other people from assuming their duties.
> Sounds
> > like Washington politics to me.
> > > Some members have resigned their membership over this. I am here to say
> > that I do not condone this form of reaction. In my humble opinion, (and
> > some of you know how humble I am) if you are on the birds, you should
> > financially support the organization. Exception would be if one couldn't
> > afford it, of course.
> > > Respectfully,Brad KC9UQR
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions expressed
> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From k8bl at ameritech.net  Sat Jul 11 00:46:56 2020
From: k8bl at ameritech.net (Bob Liddy (K8BL))
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 00:46:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation ...
In-Reply-To: <86224682-DB1E-4C42-8BFF-D4834983FAC8@mac.com>
References: <mailman.6428.1594425753.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<86224682-DB1E-4C42-8BFF-D4834983FAC8@mac.com>
Message-ID: <2054487604.5733315.1594428416968@mail.yahoo.com>

 For the good of the AMSAT-BB's transparency that ensures postsare from actual Amateurs and not Spam....
Clint Bradford's Amateur Call is K6LCS
73,? ? ?Bob? K8BL
    On Friday, July 10, 2020, 08:29:38 PM EDT, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 For the good of AMSAT, to ensure our enjoyment of future amateur satellites, and for the general good of amateur radio:

Thompson and Stoddard need to resign. Now.

Clint Bradford

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc  Sat Jul 11 00:57:23 2020
From: wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc (Burns Fisher)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 20:57:23 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Mac Doppler
In-Reply-To: <fdcd82ec-a71e-5a34-cea0-25bd803dc63f@mwt.net>
References: <ea346ce8-7091-432b-15c1-e996319e2640@mwt.net>
	<5B334BB3-5C36-4BD8-A972-A702775461AF@gmail.com>
	<fdcd82ec-a71e-5a34-cea0-25bd803dc63f@mwt.net>
Message-ID: <CABX7KxV8vJO1ZKr5aG8=eDTvqgurkqW9V6DaA2Um0RA4aJVozg@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, duh to me.  Thanks Paul.  I was not thinking straight.  Glad you all
solved it.

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 8:34 PM Joe via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> aHHH tHAT MAKES TOTAL SENSE TO ME NOW!
>
> jOE wb9sbd
>
> opps cAPLOCK
>
> He is thinking on getting on the birds and asked me to help because I
> did do it many many years ago. he just bought a 9700. so is all excited.
>
> Any suggestions to send to him as to what birds to shhot for as well as
> antenna systems?
>
> Joe WB9SBD
>
> On 7/10/2020 6:59 PM, Paul Williamson wrote:
> > MacDoppler is correct.
> >
> > Doppler shift changes the effective frequency of a radio signal in
> > transit. When the satellite is coming toward you, the frequency of
> > both the uplink and downlink signal is increased by Doppler shift. The
> > goal of the computerized tuning is to maintain a constant frequency
> > *at the satellite*.
> >
> > So, consider first the uplink (your transmitter), and assume the
> > satellite is coming toward you. The computer needs to shift its
> > frequency DOWN, so that after Doppler has up-shifted the signal it
> > will arrive at the satellite on frequency. Now consider the downlink.
> > That is, the satellite?s transmitter (your receiver). That signal is
> > where it is, when it leaves the satellite. Then it gets shifted UP by
> > Doppler. In order to receive this signal, your receiver will need to
> > shift UP to match. Thus your two radios need to shift in opposite
> > directions to compensate for Doppler.
> >
> > Note that this is independent of whether the transponder is inverting
> > or not.
> >
> > For some discussion of why the goal has to be constant frequency at
> > the satellite, see my ancient article on The One True Rule for Doppler
> > Tuning, presently hosted at https://www.amsat.org/tag/tuning/
> >
> > 73 -Paul KB5MU
> >
> >> On Jul 10, 2020, at 4:27 PM, Joe via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> ?A buddy of mine just installed MacDoppler
> >>
> >> It seems to work great but he sent me a video that doesn't make sense
> >> to me.
> >>
> >> It is controlling his radio changing freqs as needed to account for
> >> Doppler.  BUT... I have never seen this before.
> >>
> >> the 144 band was changing one way in freq and the 440 band the other
> >> way.  Huh? That doesn't seem right in my head.
> >>
> >> anyone care to maybe explain whats happening?
> >>
> >> Joe WB9SBD
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> >> of AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From dave at druidnetworks.com  Sat Jul 11 01:09:43 2020
From: dave at druidnetworks.com (David Swanson)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 20:09:43 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] The Explanition Has Come
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2UyX5zvOPVGhqmPbLLyNNDykc+CY5cvnmMtnpoa0ZKJsQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6367.1594398705.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<818534523.5699697.1594420560773@mail.yahoo.com>
	<b58532af-8759-f02a-9523-8299b6a30b1f@gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyVzd5yPBHDaHUyHeL2hfWF5rvAEMjZov3kXP2p8cJpHdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2UyX5zvOPVGhqmPbLLyNNDykc+CY5cvnmMtnpoa0ZKJsQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANq+eyXJpoW2q7VQX23bjx=2-ZZv9eAQ=WB3e68V=vqn7Oy3CQ@mail.gmail.com>

Serious question - are you high, or have you told so many lies you just
can't keep them straight anymore?

Regarding items 2) thru 8) please provide evidence of these supposed acts,
because they never happened. As far as 1) - I don't believe we've ever
discussed it, but I was one of the original Ingress beta testers, which is
far superior to Pokemon Go in every sense. Resistance forever, ADA
Refractors for all. IE, Prove it.

Since you're so fond of links, I'll post a few of my own:

https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/eagle/2008/001222.html
<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/eagle/2008/001222.html&sa=D&source=hangouts&ust=1594515349348000&usg=AFQjCNGZg_LP_sRZQddFuB9RayyljxJ5dQ>
https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/eagle/2008/001218.html
<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/eagle/2008/001218.html&sa=D&source=hangouts&ust=1594515349348000&usg=AFQjCNF-29gZeNm4giBJol2kUwBBgyvxsA>

You've been at this game of gaslighting so long I think you've forgotten
what your goal even is, other than to spew hatred everywhere you turn
against whatever flavor of the week has wronged you. Here's a few more
facts: You stole the old amsat facebook group from this organization by
taking advantage of the fact it wasn't set up correctly in facebook. You
stole non-profit issued slack license keys to this organization and
repurposed them for your new flavor of the week. You have defamed good
people who simply wanted to keep amateur radio in space. And now you've
accused an organization, who is literally responsible for the segment of
the hobby we're a part of, of wrongdoing *AFTER* reading a letter signed by
literally every single member of the leadership and elected board before
you bought the election in 2019 using funds channeled to you by outside
parties.

You are nothing but an anomaly, a note in the history books of AMSAT for
our sons and daughters to laugh at while they're holding their arrows from
mountain tops working the next round of golf birds. You've lost. Go Home.
It's over. Resign, and leave this hobby to people who care about keeping
amateur radio in space.

-Dave, KG5CCI

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 7:45 PM Michelle Thompson <
mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm not sure anyone is going to take you very seriously, since you have
> repeatedly and stridently yelped for my resignation, since the day I was
> elected, for:
>
> 1) Playing Pokemon GO (somehow that's a firing offense... "GO figure")
> 2) Having a pile of books fall over on my desk (somehow I can't serve as a
> Director because I tweeted about having too many books)
> 3) Pointing out (privately) that sexist language doesn't belong in AMSAT
> management.
> 4) Pointing out (privately) that official social media accounts weren't
> doing what they promised to do.
> 5) Being at Comic-Con.
> 6) Promoting microwave broadband digital birds.
> 7) Having the nerve to found a 501(c)(3) dedicated to open source R&D for
> amateur radio and beyond.
> 8) Breathing.
>
> Please notice that I have yet to squall for anyone's resignation. I am
> ready and willing to work with anyone. I am ready to defend Clayton despite
> the authorship of this very regrettable admission of AMSAT failing to
> follow its own bylaws or DC corporate code. I actually liked working with
> him. He has permission to share any private messages I've sent him.
>
> I do appreciate the opportunity you have given me to share my report.
>
>
> https://w5nyv.blogspot.com/2020/07/report-to-members-8-amsat-na-board-of.html
>
> This is the 8th in a series. I ran on transparency, trust, and technology.
>
> I'm an activist.
>
> If you elect an activist, expect activism. Some of what I found is
> obviously uncomfortable. The incumbents have reacted in entirely
> predictable ways. If the members want comfortable waste firmly ensconced in
> the past, then go ahead, re-elect the incumbents.
>
> I've raised real money for AMSAT R&D this year. It adds up to over $65k.
> Open Research Institute is an AMSAT Member Society. That means that it's
> recognized as an asset to AMSAT, works for AMSAT's interests, and attacking
> it is just plain stupid.
>
> I've confronted the board about unauthorized spending. I brought receipts.
>
> Patrick deserves the majority of the credit for stopping this obscenely
> wasteful practice of hiring lawyers on the sly.
>
> Fiducial responsibility is really all we as Directors are required to do.
> This is basic oversight of an organization. Unlike other things we do, it's
> not rocket science.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 5:26 PM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> Director Thompson and Director Stoddard should immediately resign their
>> positions. Their actions are unbecoming of this organization, the
>> community, and a stain on ham radio.
>>
>> Dave, KG5CCI.
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 6:26 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Or is it a couple newbies to the board didn't get what they wanted when
>> > they wanted it and then decided to make a big fuss over it? and  AMSAT
>> > decided maybe some legal guidance was in order? which IMHO probably
>> > wasn't a bad idea.
>> >
>> > I have confidence in the board and that with time this will all be
>> > worked out.
>> >
>> > Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 7/10/2020 3:36 PM, Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>> > > The email, "AMSAT Leadership Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses,"
>> which I
>> > assume all members received, made me think of the words of an oldie song
>> > that has the words, "I wish that i could be the president, so I could
>> show
>> > you how your money's spent." In this case, it appears that the money was
>> > spent to, at the advice of hired layers, keep two duly elected directors
>> > from assuming their rightful role. So, the legal answer must have been
>> to
>> > segregate them, into a second class status. Is this really legal, and in
>> > keeping with the bylaws of AMSAT? Why would the board do this? What are
>> > they hiding and from whom? I may be just a dumb, retired, Midwestern
>> > engineer, but even I can see thru this one. Talk about smoke and
>> mirrors.
>> > > I am going to assume that it was legal for the board to select a new
>> > president, and that the membership has nothing to do with that. This
>> whole
>> > situation has the appearance of a game where people have been trying to
>> > find a way to legally block other people from assuming their duties.
>> Sounds
>> > like Washington politics to me.
>> > > Some members have resigned their membership over this. I am here to
>> say
>> > that I do not condone this form of reaction. In my humble opinion, (and
>> > some of you know how humble I am) if you are on the birds, you should
>> > financially support the organization. Exception would be if one couldn't
>> > afford it, of course.
>> > > Respectfully,Brad KC9UQR
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> > Opinions expressed
>> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of
>> > AMSAT-NA.
>> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> > program!
>> > > Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions
>> > expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> > AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>

From stephennipper at gmail.com  Sat Jul 11 01:19:19 2020
From: stephennipper at gmail.com (H. Stephen Nipper)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 19:19:19 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation ...
In-Reply-To: <86224682-DB1E-4C42-8BFF-D4834983FAC8@mac.com>
References: <mailman.6428.1594425753.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<86224682-DB1E-4C42-8BFF-D4834983FAC8@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAPf7+3rYU2_0QbLwSYLwjGmtOAmQ+78xWeb4Y8Lf7vTdHNTGCQ@mail.gmail.com>

We all need to remember that this is a hobby, and hobbies are there to
enjoy and have fun.  Lets get over this crap and back to having fun.

I have been off the air for 8 months now, I really didn't like coming down
off my tower today to see all of the emails about this.

Stephen Nipper
N7DJX

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 6:30 PM Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> For the good of AMSAT, to ensure our enjoyment of future amateur
> satellites, and for the general good of amateur radio:
>
> Thompson and Stoddard need to resign. Now.
>
> Clint Bradford
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
Stephen Nipper
Boise, Idaho
N7DJX

From wa7fwf at gmail.com  Sat Jul 11 01:20:09 2020
From: wa7fwf at gmail.com (Kevin)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 18:20:09 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request
In-Reply-To: <394533430.5725037.1594425747041@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.6367.1594398705.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<394533430.5725037.1594425747041@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <09da6e59-087c-421d-a28c-dfc238fa9bde@gmail.com>

Brad,
 ?? And how would you describe the ethics of the two newest board 
members each creating online blogs where they cast doubt on AMSAT and 
the people running it? A little over a month on the BOD and in Oct 
already on that blog posting grievances. Seems to me as new members to 
the BOD they should have exhausted every possible avenue to resolve any 
problems before taking that step.

 ?? It sure has eroded any confidence that I had in them and wish I 
could get my ballot back.

 ? I can not remember new board members ever creating this much grief, I 
would hope that it could somehow be resolved but if not and if this is 
going to be a ongoing thing then it seems to me that they are the ones 
that should step down.

Kevin WA7FWF #19623


On 7/10/2020 5:02 PM, Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> I will second Rick's request. The past actions against the new board members showed the poorest leadership that I have ever seen. The ethics of this action eroded away any confidence that I had in this board.
> 73 Brad KC9UQR
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From zmetzing at pobox.com  Sat Jul 11 01:33:05 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 20:33:05 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation ...
In-Reply-To: <CAPf7+3rYU2_0QbLwSYLwjGmtOAmQ+78xWeb4Y8Lf7vTdHNTGCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6428.1594425753.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<86224682-DB1E-4C42-8BFF-D4834983FAC8@mac.com>
	<CAPf7+3rYU2_0QbLwSYLwjGmtOAmQ+78xWeb4Y8Lf7vTdHNTGCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <06ED57A1-FEF7-4A4D-A435-782A5D6D8650@pobox.com>

On July 10, 2020 8:19:19 PM CDT, "H. Stephen Nipper via AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>We all need to remember that this is a hobby, and hobbies are there to
>enjoy and have fun.  Lets get over this crap and back to having fun.
>
>I have been off the air for 8 months now, I really didn't like coming
>down
>off my tower today to see all of the emails about this.


Amen. Let's get this off the list and back to playing with radio.


--- Zach
N0ZGO

From wa7fwf at gmail.com  Sat Jul 11 02:09:11 2020
From: wa7fwf at gmail.com (Kevin)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 19:09:11 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] The Explanition Has Come
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2UyX5zvOPVGhqmPbLLyNNDykc+CY5cvnmMtnpoa0ZKJsQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6367.1594398705.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<818534523.5699697.1594420560773@mail.yahoo.com>
	<b58532af-8759-f02a-9523-8299b6a30b1f@gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyVzd5yPBHDaHUyHeL2hfWF5rvAEMjZov3kXP2p8cJpHdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2UyX5zvOPVGhqmPbLLyNNDykc+CY5cvnmMtnpoa0ZKJsQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f6c947d4-f213-a1e0-9266-2483598baec9@gmail.com>

Michelle,
 ??? I remember and agree with the BOD in the past being pretty tight 
lipped on the internal disagreements and very careful in their public 
statements, I must say that you and Patrick are anything but.

 ? I only found out about the blogs you and Patrick decided to put up 
recently and the more I read them the more they concern me.? You two 
seem to have no issue at complaining about anything you do not like 
online in these blogs and then put out open calls to storm the Bastille 
and that we should all contact the BOD and President to act on your 
grievances.

 ?You're upset about AMSAT hiring some legal advice yet it seems the two 
you were the reason for the need!

 ? I just re-read your board statement when you were running, NO WHERE 
does it say you're an activist, and I should expect activism such as 
this and that if elected you will be here to? go online and blog? every 
time you do not like something or something does not go your way.

 ?If you are serious about working with the BOD then you and Patrick 
need to take down those blogs and work out your grievances in the 
confines of the BOD, if not and this online tirade is going to continue 
then do yourself and everyone else a favor and step down.

Kevin WA7FWF #19623




On 7/10/2020 5:45 PM, Michelle Thompson wrote:
> I'm not sure anyone is going to take you very seriously, since you 
> have repeatedly and stridently yelped for my resignation, since the 
> day I was elected, for:
>
> 1) Playing Pokemon GO (somehow that's a firing offense... "GO figure")
> 2) Having a pile of books fall over on my desk (somehow I can't serve 
> as a Director because I tweeted about having too many books)
> 3) Pointing out (privately) that sexist language doesn't belong in 
> AMSAT management.
> 4) Pointing out (privately) that official social media accounts 
> weren't doing what they promised to do.
> 5) Being at Comic-Con.
> 6) Promoting microwave broadband digital birds.
> 7) Having the nerve to found a 501(c)(3) dedicated to open source R&D 
> for amateur radio and beyond.
> 8) Breathing.
>
> Please notice that I have yet to squall for anyone's resignation. I am 
> ready and willing to work with anyone. I am ready to defend Clayton 
> despite the authorship of this very regrettable admission of AMSAT 
> failing to follow its own bylaws or DC corporate code. I actually 
> liked working with him. He has permission to share any private 
> messages I've sent him.
>
> I do appreciate the opportunity you have given me to share my report.
>
> https://w5nyv.blogspot.com/2020/07/report-to-members-8-amsat-na-board-of.html
>
> This is the 8th in a series. I ran on transparency, trust, and 
> technology.
>
> I'm an activist.
>
> If you elect an activist, expect activism. Some of what I found is 
> obviously uncomfortable. The incumbents have reacted in entirely 
> predictable ways. If the members want comfortable waste firmly 
> ensconced in the past, then go ahead, re-elect the incumbents.
>
> I've raised real money for AMSAT R&D this year. It adds up to over 
> $65k. Open Research Institute is an AMSAT Member Society. That means 
> that it's recognized as an asset to AMSAT, works for AMSAT's 
> interests, and attacking it is just plain stupid.
>
> I've confronted the board about unauthorized spending. I brought 
> receipts.
>
> Patrick deserves the majority of the credit for stopping this 
> obscenely wasteful practice of hiring lawyers on the sly.
>
> Fiducial responsibility is really all we as Directors are required to 
> do. This is basic oversight of an organization. Unlike other things we 
> do, it's not rocket science.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>


From va6bmj at gmail.com  Sat Jul 11 03:18:42 2020
From: va6bmj at gmail.com (B J)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 03:18:42 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Can't Control IC-910 Using Gpredict/Hamlib On
 Raspberry Pi
In-Reply-To: <CADGPg2t=mU89q0tSaXrVpsf_=pGbMJrcK04dfhC5+1yBC1eMFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADGPg2t=mU89q0tSaXrVpsf_=pGbMJrcK04dfhC5+1yBC1eMFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP7QzkO97hrARrwJVu_xrpU-es698W23F8diO-E7KV7ifh=bWA@mail.gmail.com>

I gathered the author is aware of the bug, but when it'll be fixed remains
to be seen.  I can manage with what I'm using now, though it would be nice
if I could get it to run on a Raspberry Pi.

73s

Bernhard VA6BMJ @ DO33FL


On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 12:16 PM Roy Dean via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Bernhard,
>
> Have you tried the GPredict Forum?   Thats where I learned about the
> 910/9700 patch (but I don't own either so don't have experience).   I think
> the patch author or Alex Csete would be happy to describe the process.
>
> https://community.libre.space/c/gpredict/17
>
> --Roy
> K3RLD
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From afeller at ieee.org  Sat Jul 11 03:36:53 2020
From: afeller at ieee.org (Arthur Feller)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 23:36:53 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] The Explanition Has Come
In-Reply-To: <f6c947d4-f213-a1e0-9266-2483598baec9@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6367.1594398705.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<818534523.5699697.1594420560773@mail.yahoo.com>
	<b58532af-8759-f02a-9523-8299b6a30b1f@gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyVzd5yPBHDaHUyHeL2hfWF5rvAEMjZov3kXP2p8cJpHdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2UyX5zvOPVGhqmPbLLyNNDykc+CY5cvnmMtnpoa0ZKJsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<f6c947d4-f213-a1e0-9266-2483598baec9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AFF1B018-C118-4971-A93C-122B7CF34BFC@ieee.org>

Hey, folks.  Discuss all you want, but please, maintain comity [courtesy and considerate behaviour towards others].  Sniping at each other can?t be constructive.  

Have an issue?  Put it on the table with supporting data and suggested realistic solutions with supporting reasoning.  Then, let the Officers and the Board do their jobs using the information you supply.  Agree or disagree?  Vote accordingly.  Maintain comity.  Always.

I hope this helps.

73, art?..
W4ART  Arlington VA
LM-113

To thrive in life, you need three bones:  a wish bone, a back bone, and a funny bone.
						- Reba McEntire

http://afeller.us <http://afeller.us/>





From vk5qi at rfhead.net  Sat Jul 11 03:38:26 2020
From: vk5qi at rfhead.net (Mark Jessop)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 13:08:26 +0930
Subject: [amsat-bb] Can't Control IC-910 Using Gpredict/Hamlib On
 Raspberry Pi
In-Reply-To: <CAP7QzkO97hrARrwJVu_xrpU-es698W23F8diO-E7KV7ifh=bWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADGPg2t=mU89q0tSaXrVpsf_=pGbMJrcK04dfhC5+1yBC1eMFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAP7QzkO97hrARrwJVu_xrpU-es698W23F8diO-E7KV7ifh=bWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJsuqdAYyDMMkW1SaD9L4zwD5q-s+3Ngm+avCzh5eFdeKHw9rA@mail.gmail.com>

Unfortunately the overlap between people who have the skills to debug and
code such systems, those that have access to the shiny radios that need
support, and those that actually have the time to work on such a thing, is
pretty small.
This makes it pretty difficult for issues like this to get resolved.

73
Mark VK5QI

On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 12:50 PM B J via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> I gathered the author is aware of the bug, but when it'll be fixed remains
> to be seen.  I can manage with what I'm using now, though it would be nice
> if I could get it to run on a Raspberry Pi.
>
> 73s
>
> Bernhard VA6BMJ @ DO33FL
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 12:16 PM Roy Dean via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Bernhard,
> >
> > Have you tried the GPredict Forum?   Thats where I learned about the
> > 910/9700 patch (but I don't own either so don't have experience).   I
> think
> > the patch author or Alex Csete would be happy to describe the process.
> >
> > https://community.libre.space/c/gpredict/17
> >
> > --Roy
> > K3RLD
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Sat Jul 11 04:29:33 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 23:29:33 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Modeling the AA2TX Parasitic Lindenblad
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2V93dQgbh=535BpkEWvRZipEnX6y_06yg=bzsHbhO5b_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d71c7c1-2ee1-92cc-5d44-bd51d562c65b@pobox.com>
	<CACvjz2V93dQgbh=535BpkEWvRZipEnX6y_06yg=bzsHbhO5b_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <91C9DAD8-1B6A-486F-A586-4DC1F29B26BF@pobox.com>

On July 10, 2020 6:41:54 PM CDT, Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>Would HFSS help?

Thank you for the offer, but HFSS is commercial and pricey. I have access to similar tools through my workplace, but this exercise should be solvable with nec2, I think. That way, others can build off of it, should they want to.

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From curt.laumann at gmail.com  Sat Jul 11 00:43:00 2020
From: curt.laumann at gmail.com (Curt Laumann)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:43:00 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Modeling the AA2TX Parasitic Lindenblad
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2V93dQgbh=535BpkEWvRZipEnX6y_06yg=bzsHbhO5b_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d71c7c1-2ee1-92cc-5d44-bd51d562c65b@pobox.com>
	<CACvjz2V93dQgbh=535BpkEWvRZipEnX6y_06yg=bzsHbhO5b_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD7_4hz-7wtb_Ma4znraiaO+z7aDZkERbeQnk6FGWUuZHE+6_A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Zach,

My intuition is that the relatively small change in the diameter of the
radiating element, and material change, will not significantly change the
performance of the paralindy antenna.

Increasing the diameter of radiating dipole elements has the effect of
broadening an SWR curve, providing more usable bandwidth. Consider a
75-meter dipole comprised of one wire, then increase it's effective
diameter by replacing it with a "caged dipole" of four wires separated by a
foot or so.

http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/pdf/The%20Cage%20is%20Back%20W1AW.pdf


Furthermore, the change in diameter you're proposing (0.1 in) is a very
small fraction of the design wavelength -- so I wouldn't expect to see any
significant broadening of the performance vs frequency.

My intuition is guided by a couple of semesters of E&M and a few decades of
antenna building and testing.  BUT it's only my *intuition*, and I'd be
very interested in hearing the results of any modeling!

As an aside, I'm also working to build this antenna with my newly-acquired
3D printer, using PETG in fact!  I'm redesigning the 70-cm Lindy as well as
2-m Lindy to use arrow shaft elements.  In this manner the antenna will be
easy to disassemble and easily portablized.  Or transported  :)

Curt / K7ZOO

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 4:45 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Would HFSS help?
>
> If you have a sketch, then I have someone that can model it at no cost.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 4:05 PM Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> >
> > Hello folks,
> >
> > I've been intrigued by Tony's Parasitic Lindenblad ever since I first
> > read about it. I have a center section in CAD, suitable for 3D printing
> > in PET-G, which eliminates the messy gluing, etc. and gives me a chance
> > to use my printer. :-)
> >
> > However, I'd like to eliminate the requirement for the 0.750" OD
> > aluminum mast and replace it with 0.650" OD (name: 1/2") copper water
> > pipe, which can be readily found in any hardware store. Given the
> > appropriate paint coating, copper pipe has held up well over many years
> > at my QTH when exposed to the elements.
> >
> > I am using Xnec2c on FreeBSD, but any NEC program should be able to use
> > the deck, to model the antenna. However, my dimensions don't seem to
> > match what Tony came up with. Are there any NEC gurus in the audience?
> >
> > Here's my sophomore stab at the antenna deck:
> >
> > CM --- NEC2 Input File created or edited by xnec2c 3.4 ---
> > CM AA2TX Parasitic Lindenblad -- All distances in meters
> > CM Goal is to use 1/2" copper water pipe for dipole element (0.650" OD)
> > instead of 3/4" OD aluminum pole
> > CE --- End Comments ---
> > GW     1    15   0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00 -1.39000E-01  0.00000E+00
> > 0.00000E+00  1.39000E-01  1.58750E-02
> > GW     2    15   2.58000E-01  8.50000E-02  1.49000E-01 -2.58000E-01
> > 8.50000E-02 -1.49000E-01  1.50000E-03
> > GW     3    15  -2.58000E-01 -8.50000E-02  1.49000E-01  2.58000E-01
> > -8.50000E-02 -1.49000E-01  1.50000E-03
> > GW     4    15   8.50000E-02  2.58000E-01 -1.49000E-01  8.50000E-02
> > -2.58000E-01  1.49000E-01  1.50000E-03
> > GW     5    15  -8.50000E-02  2.58000E-01  1.49000E-01 -8.50000E-02
> > -2.58000E-01 -1.49000E-01  1.50000E-03
> > GE     0     0   0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
> > 0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
> > EX     0     1     8      0  1.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
> > 0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
> > FR     0    20     0      0  4.30000E+02  1.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
> > 0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
> > NH     0     0     0      0  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
> > 0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
> > NE     0    10     1     10 -1.35000E+00  0.00000E+00 -1.35000E+00
> > 3.00000E-01  0.00000E+00  3.00000E-01
> > RP     0    19    37   1000  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  1.00000E+01
> > 1.00000E+01  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
> > EN     0     0     0      0  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
> > 0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00  0.00000E+00
> >
> > Questions that arise from an afternoon of fiddling with this:
> >
> > 1) Should I model the driven element as two wires with the 1/4" gap
> > between them? If so, how would I do this?
> >
> > 2) Will the 0.100" difference in OD make enough of a difference to even
> > go through this exercise?
> >
> > Any and all comments, especially from NEC gurus, appreciated!
> >
> > --- Zach
> > N0ZGO
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From n8fgv at usa.net  Sat Jul 11 02:03:37 2020
From: n8fgv at usa.net (Daniel Schultz)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 22:03:37 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] The Explanition Has Come
Message-ID: <401ygkccl2976Set.1594433017@web02.cms.usa.net>

We have recently discussed in this forum the reasons why there are no more ham
radio satellites in HEO. We have reviewed the various external factors such as
a saturated and highly commercial secondary launch market, new government
regulations that did not exist 25 years ago, commercial and government
interests that might simply prefer that amateur radio and amateur satellites
"go away" in order to make life easier for them, and other factors all
external to AMSAT. 

What we did not consider was the possibility of internal squabbles threatening
the organization. I have seen more than one organization fall apart because of
such in-fighting. Please be aware that this internal threat can be deadlier
than any of the external factors that are preventing us from launching new
satellites. I don't know which side is right. Perhaps both sides, perhaps
neither side. I just know that it would be a god-awful shame if AMSAT's
remarkable 50 year adventure should come to an end because of this. 

It is time to sit down like ladies and gentlemen and calmly discuss these
various differences without bringing the legal profession into the equation.
Perhaps the board candidates could make calm and rational statements to the
membership on how they plan to accomplish this, so that the members can make
rational choices in the upcoming election. If this cannot be done then we
should probably all just sell our radio gear and find some other hobby that we
can pursue on our own without the need to form or govern any organization. 

73, Dan Schultz N8FGV


From w7lrd at comcast.net  Sat Jul 11 07:03:40 2020
From: w7lrd at comcast.net (73 Bob W7LRD)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 00:03:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [amsat-bb] The Explanition Has Come
In-Reply-To: <818534523.5699697.1594420560773@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.6367.1594398705.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<818534523.5699697.1594420560773@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1797769988.46571.1594451020960@connect.xfinity.com>

I believe all concerned should go stand in the corner!! 
73 Bob W7LRD

> On 07/10/2020 3:36 PM Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
>  
> The email, "AMSAT Leadership Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses," which I assume all members received, made me think of the words of an oldie song that has the words, "I wish that i could be the president, so I could show you how your money's spent." In this case, it appears that the money was spent to, at the advice of hired layers, keep two duly elected directors from assuming their rightful role. So, the legal answer must have been to segregate them, into a second class status. Is this really legal, and in keeping with the bylaws of AMSAT? Why would the board do this? What are they hiding and from whom? I may be just a dumb, retired, Midwestern engineer, but even I can see thru this one. Talk about smoke and mirrors.
> I am going to assume that it was legal for the board to select a new president, and that the membership has nothing to do with that. This whole situation has the appearance of a game where people have been trying to find a way to legally block other people from assuming their duties. Sounds like Washington politics to me.
> Some members have resigned their membership over this. I am here to say that I do not condone this form of reaction. In my humble opinion, (and some of you know how humble I am) if you are on the birds, you should financially support the organization. Exception would be if one couldn't afford it, of course.
> Respectfully,Brad KC9UQR
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From wa4sca at gmail.com  Sat Jul 11 07:47:40 2020
From: wa4sca at gmail.com (Alan)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 02:47:40 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation ...
In-Reply-To: <86224682-DB1E-4C42-8BFF-D4834983FAC8@mac.com>
References: <mailman.6428.1594425753.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<86224682-DB1E-4C42-8BFF-D4834983FAC8@mac.com>
Message-ID: <000001d65757$8e1c7810$aa556830$@gmail.com>

I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of improper
behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with concern, but
also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred in the
30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution, because
the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a holiday
week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical
political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they believed
the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have brought
them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations were
either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the most
charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but egregious
errors in judgement by the accusers. 

I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these unwarranted
accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so grievously
misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused AMSAT. It
would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken trust
with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum they
should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they represent a
vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified
candidates to replace them without their baggage.

Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board
candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors, or been
endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.

Alan Biddle
WA4SCA
Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary 



From quadpugh at bellsouth.net  Sat Jul 11 11:34:38 2020
From: quadpugh at bellsouth.net (Nick Pugh)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 06:34:38 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Foolishness
References: <041101d65777$43435820$c9ca0860$.ref@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <041101d65777$43435820$c9ca0860$@bellsouth.net>

This is a hobby

Spending money on lawyer instead of satellite is dumb

My hope is you get on a Zoom call and put the fire out and take us to HEO

 

Nickk k5qxj

 

Cell      337 258 2527

 

Helping UL become a world Class Engineering  and Educational School

Disagree I Learn

 

 


From ve3hls at gmail.com  Sat Jul 11 12:29:43 2020
From: ve3hls at gmail.com (Kenneth P Alexander)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 12:29:43 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Foolishness
In-Reply-To: <041101d65777$43435820$c9ca0860$@bellsouth.net>
References: <041101d65777$43435820$c9ca0860$.ref@bellsouth.net>
	<041101d65777$43435820$c9ca0860$@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <CAPOM0dn+iUg6Za9QyWUH1744RPLFU3_gd_hPTsf0P6FcnQVVLQ@mail.gmail.com>

This is a hobby, but Amsat is the Corporation whose purpose is to provide
us with the means to enjoy our hobby.

The Board of Directors is elected by the membership...with (unfortunately)
all the political crap and personality clashes that come with elections.
There's nothing anybody can do about it except to support people you
believe are good and challenge decisions and policies you don't like.

I don't like what's been going on and I'm not completely convinced by the
Board's explanation so I try to get involved in my own small way.  I hope
the Board can settle their differences as well.  A lot has been said on
both sides that will make reconciliation difficult, but I live in hope.

73,

Ken Alexander, VE3HLS
So Phisai, Thailand
Blog:  bueng-ken.com


On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 11:38 AM Nick Pugh via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> This is a hobby
>
> Spending money on lawyer instead of satellite is dumb
>
> My hope is you get on a Zoom call and put the fire out and take us to HEO
>
>
>
> Nickk k5qxj
>
>
>
> Cell      337 258 2527
>
>
>
> Helping UL become a world Class Engineering  and Educational School
>
> Disagree I Learn
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From johnag9d at gmail.com  Sat Jul 11 12:31:28 2020
From: johnag9d at gmail.com (John Spasojevich)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 05:31:28 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Foolishness
In-Reply-To: <041101d65777$43435820$c9ca0860$@bellsouth.net>
References: <041101d65777$43435820$c9ca0860$.ref@bellsouth.net>
	<041101d65777$43435820$c9ca0860$@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <CA+qbou5cvEkupTR1fxsDw36zHYL-KNhigDhGTNf3+++HqQF8MA@mail.gmail.com>

All reads to me like a couple people broke into the old boys club and
weren?t welcomed to the playground. AMSAT has been run by the same people
for years and years and years. Then again not many run for office so our
choices are limited.

John AG9D

On Saturday, July 11, 2020, Nick Pugh via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> This is a hobby
>
> Spending money on lawyer instead of satellite is dumb
>
> My hope is you get on a Zoom call and put the fire out and take us to HEO
>
>
>
> Nickk k5qxj
>
>
>
> Cell      337 258 2527
>
>
>
> Helping UL become a world Class Engineering  and Educational School
>
> Disagree I Learn
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From andythomasmail at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Jul 11 13:11:45 2020
From: andythomasmail at yahoo.co.uk (andy thomas)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 13:11:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] constructive suggestion
References: <771703099.206473.1594473105606.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <771703099.206473.1594473105606@mail.yahoo.com>

Suggest you take the -bb offline for a week while everyone cools down.
73 de andy g0sfj

From rich at ourowndomain.com  Sat Jul 11 13:37:32 2020
From: rich at ourowndomain.com (Rich Gopstein)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 09:37:32 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Foolishness
In-Reply-To: <CA+qbou5cvEkupTR1fxsDw36zHYL-KNhigDhGTNf3+++HqQF8MA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <041101d65777$43435820$c9ca0860$.ref@bellsouth.net>
	<041101d65777$43435820$c9ca0860$@bellsouth.net>
	<CA+qbou5cvEkupTR1fxsDw36zHYL-KNhigDhGTNf3+++HqQF8MA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANsNeao5gxUZuCBmoDnXGYTzYpj5_tQMNmsE30So5psM0XJ=AQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'm guessing it's more complex than that.  I suspect this is really about
ORI and trying to get AMSAT to outsource their satellite engineering to
ORI.  MIchelle Thompson is the CEO of ORI...

https://openresearch.institute/board-of-directors/

Rich, KD2CQ
AMSAT life member


On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 8:34 AM John Spasojevich via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> All reads to me like a couple people broke into the old boys club and
> weren?t welcomed to the playground. AMSAT has been run by the same people
> for years and years and years. Then again not many run for office so our
> choices are limited.
>
> John AG9D
>
> On Saturday, July 11, 2020, Nick Pugh via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
> > This is a hobby
> >
> > Spending money on lawyer instead of satellite is dumb
> >
> > My hope is you get on a Zoom call and put the fire out and take us to HEO
> >
> >
> >
> > Nickk k5qxj
> >
> >
> >
> > Cell      337 258 2527
> >
> >
> >
> > Helping UL become a world Class Engineering  and Educational School
> >
> > Disagree I Learn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From propgrinder at gmail.com  Sat Jul 11 14:41:30 2020
From: propgrinder at gmail.com (Bob Hammond)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 07:41:30 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Directors Stoddard and Thompson
Message-ID: <CAKoB7Oqdm4WJ6JampJg7jy5m+o1AzDgbJ=0uP9hmzb2m5oZLhQ@mail.gmail.com>

I am able to find Director Thompson's bio but I'm unable to find anything
about Director Stoddard.  Is there a bio with work history, background,
education, volunteer work, and so on?

I'm curious.

Bob W7OTJ

From johnbrier at gmail.com  Sat Jul 11 15:55:16 2020
From: johnbrier at gmail.com (John Brier)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 11:55:16 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Directors Stoddard and Thompson
In-Reply-To: <CAKoB7Oqdm4WJ6JampJg7jy5m+o1AzDgbJ=0uP9hmzb2m5oZLhQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7Oqdm4WJ6JampJg7jy5m+o1AzDgbJ=0uP9hmzb2m5oZLhQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALn0fKNo_Cpg58SBSqOeB0ZkQj5APmW22p2wiwvYqgu3Qx8q9A@mail.gmail.com>

http://amsat.wd9ewk.net/

73, John Brier KG4AKV

On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 10:43 AM Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> I am able to find Director Thompson's bio but I'm unable to find anything
> about Director Stoddard.  Is there a bio with work history, background,
> education, volunteer work, and so on?
>
> I'm curious.
>
> Bob W7OTJ
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Sat Jul 11 16:28:47 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 09:28:47 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Modeling the AA2TX Parasitic Lindenblad
In-Reply-To: <91C9DAD8-1B6A-486F-A586-4DC1F29B26BF@pobox.com>
References: <1d71c7c1-2ee1-92cc-5d44-bd51d562c65b@pobox.com>
	<CACvjz2V93dQgbh=535BpkEWvRZipEnX6y_06yg=bzsHbhO5b_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<91C9DAD8-1B6A-486F-A586-4DC1F29B26BF@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2X0j=1=wG2-yxfxzWYULDhAJYjVeFZ6jRHkS19sbvJCUA@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, it's commercial and pricey. I was able to get a license donated for
community use.

The advantage of getting results from software like HFSS is that you have a
result to compare results from NEC against. It's not a replacement. It's an
additional result. Both/and, not either/or.

We have done this to test open source GSE and DVB-S2X work.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 9:31 PM Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> On July 10, 2020 6:41:54 PM CDT, Michelle Thompson <
> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
> >Would HFSS help?
>
> Thank you for the offer, but HFSS is commercial and pricey. I have access
> to similar tools through my workplace, but this exercise should be solvable
> with nec2, I think. That way, others can build off of it, should they want
> to.
>
> --- Zach
> N0ZGO
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From propgrinder at gmail.com  Sat Jul 11 16:30:20 2020
From: propgrinder at gmail.com (Bob Hammond)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 09:30:20 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Life Membership
Message-ID: <CAKoB7Opd3G+o0fDbXPYhwMmndU6goMHJOkOO_qQ0E7Q-S8tu+Q@mail.gmail.com>

How does one change one's yearly membership to Life Membership?

I cannot find any method to do so on the launch.amsat.org web pages.  And I
cannot rejoin as such either.

Bob W7OTJ

From jim at k6ccc.org  Sat Jul 11 16:56:18 2020
From: jim at k6ccc.org (Jim Walls)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 09:56:18 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Life Membership
In-Reply-To: <CAKoB7Opd3G+o0fDbXPYhwMmndU6goMHJOkOO_qQ0E7Q-S8tu+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7Opd3G+o0fDbXPYhwMmndU6goMHJOkOO_qQ0E7Q-S8tu+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8382f96b-c969-36d0-81d2-5bef2ecaeaab@k6ccc.org>

On 07/11/2020 09:30, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> How does one change one's yearly membership to Life Membership?
>
> I cannot find any method to do so on the launch.amsat.org web pages.  And I
> cannot rejoin as such either.
>
> Bob W7OTJ
>

Took less than 10 seconds to find.
https://launch.amsat.org/Mermbership

-- 
73
-------------------------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
jim at k6ccc.org
Ofc:  818-548-4804
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395


From vlfiscus at mcn.net  Sat Jul 11 18:13:12 2020
From: vlfiscus at mcn.net (Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 12:13:12 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] The Explanition Has Come
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2UyX5zvOPVGhqmPbLLyNNDykc+CY5cvnmMtnpoa0ZKJsQ@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <CANq+eyVzd5yPBHDaHUyHeL2hfWF5rvAEMjZov3kXP2p8cJpHdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.6367.1594398705.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<818534523.5699697.1594420560773@mail.yahoo.com>
	<b58532af-8759-f02a-9523-8299b6a30b1f@gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyVzd5yPBHDaHUyHeL2hfWF5rvAEMjZov3kXP2p8cJpHdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20200711113122.02122620@pop.earthlink.net>

At 05:45 PM 7/10/2020 -0700,  Michelle Thompson  wrote:

>I've confronted the board about unauthorized spending. I brought receipts.
>
>Patrick deserves the majority of the credit for stopping this obscenely
>wasteful practice of hiring lawyers on the sly.


I side with the President and the decision of the BoD.

Spending the funds to address the issue for which these funds were expended,
to develop policies and procedures to help handle and prevent such problems
like this from ever happening again in the future is money well spent.

You and Patrick are the ones that need to reimburse the membership
for the expenses.

KB7ADL


From n0jy at amsat.org  Sat Jul 11 17:21:59 2020
From: n0jy at amsat.org (Jerry Buxton)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 12:21:59 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] The Explanition Has Come
In-Reply-To: <1797769988.46571.1594451020960@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <mailman.6367.1594398705.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<818534523.5699697.1594420560773@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1797769988.46571.1594451020960@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <3cf7f7bc-1f49-6233-48d8-cabcc54723a5@amsat.org>

On 7/11/2020 02:03, 73 Bob W7LRD via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> I believe all concerned should go stand in the corner!! 
I do all of my volunteer jobs/work in a corner (room of the house) if
that counts...

Jerry Buxton, N?JY


From steve at conklinhouse.com  Sat Jul 11 16:36:10 2020
From: steve at conklinhouse.com (Steve Conklin)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 11:36:10 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Foolishness
In-Reply-To: <CANsNeao5gxUZuCBmoDnXGYTzYpj5_tQMNmsE30So5psM0XJ=AQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <041101d65777$43435820$c9ca0860$.ref@bellsouth.net>
	<041101d65777$43435820$c9ca0860$@bellsouth.net>
	<CA+qbou5cvEkupTR1fxsDw36zHYL-KNhigDhGTNf3+++HqQF8MA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeao5gxUZuCBmoDnXGYTzYpj5_tQMNmsE30So5psM0XJ=AQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALJxBtXQc_gYnqM3Uo=4yO0GSJPiALA31dfmpYGHBdbDF-XrXw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 8:39 AM Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I'm guessing it's more complex than that.  I suspect this is really about
> ORI and trying to get AMSAT to outsource their satellite engineering to
> ORI.  MIchelle Thompson is the CEO of ORI...
>
>
This is completely baseless.

I am an officer for ORI, and the projects that ORI is pursuing are almost
completely independent of AMSAT. ORI's space-related projects are focused
on digital mode microwave technologies, an emerging set of technologies
that AMSAT has not shown any substantial interest in or development for.
The current ORI project work for possible future space missions are
primarily for Lunar Gateway, which AMSAT has not expressed any interest in.

ORI has already produced open-source project outcomes which contribute to
both space-based and terrestrial experimentation and use cases.

All this is easily discoverable, because ORI has been transparent with both
their funding and engineering. Here's an update from last month.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRFYdNJbECA

Steve Conklin AI4QR

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Sat Jul 11 18:22:55 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 18:22:55 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Foolishness
In-Reply-To: <CANsNeao5gxUZuCBmoDnXGYTzYpj5_tQMNmsE30So5psM0XJ=AQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <041101d65777$43435820$c9ca0860$.ref@bellsouth.net>
	<041101d65777$43435820$c9ca0860$@bellsouth.net>
	<CA+qbou5cvEkupTR1fxsDw36zHYL-KNhigDhGTNf3+++HqQF8MA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeao5gxUZuCBmoDnXGYTzYpj5_tQMNmsE30So5psM0XJ=AQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2WN1vq0h3wOTLgCA0WUQ3fMj6MvXfJuYhzZ8s81PEOKEA@mail.gmail.com>

I can speak to this. Thank you for the opportunity.

It's the other way around. ORI provides all engineering to the general
public, free of charge.

We've pledged our successful fundraising to directly benefit AMSAT in every
way we know how. We've done significant legal and regulatory work to reduce
ITAR/EAR burden, produced a wide variety of software and firmware, and now
have the funds to prototype the hardware required for microwave broadband
communications payloads.

We've published open source implementations of the best forward error
correction codes that exist. We just bought a full Vivado floating license
that anyone in the community can use.

The board and associate members (we have no paid members, so we don't even
compete there) have been completely transparent about the intent and
purpose of the engineering done by ORI.

ORI is a Member Society of AMSAT.

It's odd how ORI is portrayed here, yet Directors current and previous that
have dual roles - such as working for NASA, working at Universities with
commercial satellite projects, and working for commercial satellite
companies - simply never get any criticism for using AMSAT to help their
career or projects. In many cases, AMSAT has been used to further outside
or commercial careers. Many of these people are unquestionably celebrated.

When someone (like myself) that starts a successful 501(c)(3) that works in
the opposite direction - freely giving to the organization and supporting
it whenever possible - one would hope it would be perceived as a positive.

All of this engineering and fundraising was the exact sort of thing I was
doing within AMSAT engineering. When Joe Spier shut down the entire
project, the dozens of people on the team asked if we could keep going.
Bruce Perens was instrumental here in helping set up a 501(c)(3) that could
operate as a research institute. And the rest is documented on our website.

While people like me shouldn't have to set up an entirely independent
formal structure to volunteer for the AMSAT community, it has turned out to
be fun, successful, and quite complementary to AMSAT's aims and purposes.

ORI is not a membership organization. It's not in competition for members.
We sign up AMSAT members at every event we hold. We promote AMSAT publicly.

If the leadership of AMSAT really wants to view organizations like ORI as
some sort of threat or crisis, then they are deliberately choosing to be
anti-collaborative.

If you have to have Directors that don't have any other interests outside
AMSAT, then you will end up with people that don't bring things like a
strong network, experiences, or other organizational assets to the job.

Should Tom Clark have been thrown off the AMSAT board because he was also
on the Virginia Tech Space Advisory Board? Should Brennan Price not be
Secretary because he works for Inmarsat?

The opposite is also true. Ordinary people with ordinary common sense
should also be in leadership. Diversity on the board can only improve it.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 1:43 PM Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I'm guessing it's more complex than that.  I suspect this is really about
> ORI and trying to get AMSAT to outsource their satellite engineering to
> ORI.  MIchelle Thompson is the CEO of ORI...
>
> https://openresearch.institute/board-of-directors/
>
> Rich, KD2CQ
> AMSAT life member
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 8:34 AM John Spasojevich via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > All reads to me like a couple people broke into the old boys club and
> > weren?t welcomed to the playground. AMSAT has been run by the same people
> > for years and years and years. Then again not many run for office so our
> > choices are limited.
> >
> > John AG9D
> >
> > On Saturday, July 11, 2020, Nick Pugh via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > This is a hobby
> > >
> > > Spending money on lawyer instead of satellite is dumb
> > >
> > > My hope is you get on a Zoom call and put the fire out and take us to
> HEO
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Nickk k5qxj
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cell      337 258 2527
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Helping UL become a world Class Engineering  and Educational School
> > >
> > > Disagree I Learn
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions
> > > expressed
> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Sat Jul 11 18:37:48 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 18:37:48 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Directors Stoddard and Thompson
In-Reply-To: <CAKoB7Oqdm4WJ6JampJg7jy5m+o1AzDgbJ=0uP9hmzb2m5oZLhQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7Oqdm4WJ6JampJg7jy5m+o1AzDgbJ=0uP9hmzb2m5oZLhQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2X45ZY1QueGyHth6g=BJsQSXT4TLP3daFRSBYwGJhis0g@mail.gmail.com>

I recommend researching the bios of the people running for the Board for
2020 election.

The incumbents have tried to make this about currently serving Directors,
as if it's a referendum on our oversight. If that's the case, then good.
Let them.

If the membership wants clean and transparent financial behavior, then
please replace the men that secretly hired a law firm and blocked access to
corporate records and communications.

They have admitted they secretly hired this firm, admitted that the
demand letter was the only reason they restored access, and have halted
regular meetings.

How can one productively work with people that refuse to even meet?

Please send volunteers to the board that won't act like this. There will be
significant and long-lasting improvement. This will take a lot of work.
However, everyone will get increased benefit from your membership dues,
better communications, and a better volunteer experience across the
organization.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 2:43 PM Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> I am able to find Director Thompson's bio but I'm unable to find anything
> about Director Stoddard.  Is there a bio with work history, background,
> education, volunteer work, and so on?
>
> I'm curious.
>
> Bob W7OTJ
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From corlissbs at aol.com  Sat Jul 11 18:57:09 2020
From: corlissbs at aol.com (Brad Smith)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 18:57:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)
References: <1186842614.210684.1594493829693.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1186842614.210684.1594493829693@mail.yahoo.com>

<And how would you describe the ethics of the two newest boardmembers each creating online blogs where they cast doubt on AMSAT andthe people running it? A little over a month on the BOD and in Octalready on that blog posting grievances.>
Rememnber, the new members were duly elected and then discriminated against because the board didn't like the fact that they won. So, they were given a "junior' status, which is not what we elected them to be. That is dirty pool. Very unethical.
Brad KC9UQR


From corlissbs at aol.com  Sat Jul 11 19:03:30 2020
From: corlissbs at aol.com (Brad Smith)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 19:03:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Elect New, Honorable, Board Members
References: <1353931617.208585.1594494210641.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1353931617.208585.1594494210641@mail.yahoo.com>

<Amen. Let's get this off the list and back to playing with radio.>

We need a board that we can trust and this board is not trustworthy to led,nor spend the finances in aan ethical manor. I have received emails from members, on both sides of the issue. One asked me how I know the moneys spent were donations. So, I now ask the Board, where did the funds ($18 k) come from that you spent to bury Patrick and Michelle?
73 Brad KC9UQR

From wa7fwf at gmail.com  Sat Jul 11 20:19:19 2020
From: wa7fwf at gmail.com (Kevin)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 13:19:19 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)
In-Reply-To: <1186842614.210684.1594493829693@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1186842614.210684.1594493829693.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1186842614.210684.1594493829693@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9c097576-4f23-9cf5-d184-1631ea354cea@gmail.com>

 ?? Brad,
 ??? Now that I have had time to read most of the wd9ewk blogs and 
links, it's clear to me that he has an ax to grind against multiple 
people in the AMSAT organization, some of it going back years.

 ? The ink had barely dried on the ballots and he was already making 
claims of poor treatment, maybe some who have tangled with him in the 
past were not excited that he was elected, that's human nature.

 ?? But seriously, his? Sept 30th entry "Unfortunately, AMSAT President 
Joe Spier K6WAO has not shown leadership in the transition to the 
newly-elected Board and its preparations for the upcoming meeting in 
Virginia, and this is disappointing. "? can you honestly look me in the 
eye and say this is acceptable for someone who has just got onto the BOD 
to say in a online blog? How could this ever be considered productive?

 ??? And then you expect everyone to ignore that and welcome him? Then 
you read further and he proclaims that he is not sad at Joe resigning 
and that he had called for his resignation the previous summer over 
another matter!

 ? No , I'm sorry but the more I read the more I believe He came in with 
a attitude of wanting to make trouble.

 ?That's my opinion, others should read the blog and links from the 
beginning to end with a open mind? and ask, does this look like someone 
trying to make it work or someone looking for any reason to complain and 
then post it online to create trouble for AMSAT?

keep in mind you are seeing a one sided blog only from the person who is 
not happy.

http://amsat.wd9ewk.net/ <http://amsat.wd9ewk.net/>

Every member should read it, and then each decide for themselves if it's 
an honest effort for progress or one huge complaint session.

Kevin WA7FWF #19623



On 7/11/2020 11:57 AM, Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> <And how would you describe the ethics of the two newest boardmembers each creating online blogs where they cast doubt on AMSAT andthe people running it? A little over a month on the BOD and in Octalready on that blog posting grievances.>
> Rememnber, the new members were duly elected and then discriminated against because the board didn't like the fact that they won. So, they were given a "junior' status, which is not what we elected them to be. That is dirty pool. Very unethical.
> Brad KC9UQR
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From ke4al at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 11 20:34:35 2020
From: ke4al at yahoo.com (Robert Bankston)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 20:34:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)
In-Reply-To: <1186842614.210684.1594493829693@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1186842614.210684.1594493829693.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1186842614.210684.1594493829693@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1442215093.239842.1594499675615@mail.yahoo.com>

Patrick Stoddard and Michelle Thompson were emplaced on the Board as Directors and aforded the same rights and privileges as the the other elected and standing Directors.? No one treated them as "second class" Directors.? In fact, every effort was made to welcome them on the Board.
?Stoddard and Thompson had the ability to make motions, lead discussions and vote, just as the other five directors, and they did.???At no time were either of them prevented from doing their elected duties.? To say otherwise is a completely FALSE statement.?AMSAT is a nonprofit corporation with the purpose of designing, building, launching, operating and promoting amateur radio satellites and space communications.? AMSAT's leadership and volunteers work every day to do this.? We have a lot of opportunities on the horizon with GOLF-TEE, GOLF-1, our return to high Earth Orbits, and AREx.???AMSAT is no place for politics and political rhetoric.? Let's get back to work.????Robert, KE4AL
TreasurerVice-President, User ServicesDirector, AMSAT AmbassadorsRadio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT) 

    On Saturday, July 11, 2020, 01:58:16 PM CDT, Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 <And how would you describe the ethics of the two newest boardmembers each creating online blogs where they cast doubt on AMSAT andthe people running it? A little over a month on the BOD and in Octalready on that blog posting grievances.>
Rememnber, the new members were duly elected and then discriminated against because the board didn't like the fact that they won. So, they were given a "junior' status, which is not what we elected them to be. That is dirty pool. Very unethical.
Brad KC9UQR

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From n0jy at amsat.org  Sat Jul 11 20:48:08 2020
From: n0jy at amsat.org (Jerry Buxton)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 15:48:08 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] huskysat-1
In-Reply-To: <CAJCSnOa+ZTqJ8yHKF7PFmDRYZBZ8EK1v-XQim8eY9NK-soyXkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <458090142.2607709.1594319883700.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<458090142.2607709.1594319883700@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAJCSnOa+ZTqJ8yHKF7PFmDRYZBZ8EK1v-XQim8eY9NK-soyXkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3123473f-24d3-5674-e6f9-09f54af9de4f@amsat.org>

On 7/10/2020 09:47, Scott via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> I have tried the linear transponder numerous times & as recently as a day
> or two ago with nothing heard.
>
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 9:13 AM Rosa & Robert Fitzpatrick via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> what is the latest status on huskysat-1.thank you bob/kb5sqgGranbury tx
>>
>
While it is disappointing that the transponder did not see a longer
period of use following the science missions, the overall
HuskySat-1/HO-107 project and mission were quite beneficial for our
partner and for AMSAT.? The HuskySat-1 team were able to command their
satellite and experiments and receive the telemetry they sought, and
AMSAT was able to work through the extensive process of making a new
design for a "black box" radio module that can be integrated into a
non-AMSAT spacecraft and fly in the space environment.?

The LTM (Linear Transponder Module) on HO-107 worked for over three
months after HuskySat-1 came alive following its deployment.
The failure of the LTM came during or just after a period of full sun
where LTM temperatures reached over 80 degrees Celsius.

While licensed and operated as an amateur radio satellite by AMSAT
during the transponder use, there are some facts that set HO-107 apart
from our Fox-1 CubeSats and other AMSAT satellites.

1. It's not our satellite.? We have no control and may not have any
insight into how a partner actually uses the LTM.? While we see the LTM
temperatures and many of the other typical data fields that we downlink
to FoxTelem regarding LTM health, data such as temperature of the host
environment as well as other specific information like power and the
state of the other systems in a host satellite may or may not be
available to us.? Whether LTM is operated within design limits is
entirely up to the host.?

The University of Washington HuskySat Labs team was very cooperative
with us on this mission, however there are things regarding their
mission that we do not know because they are processing and studying
their data for use in their thesis and classes and preparing it for
release in a specific way typical of such an institution today.? AMSAT
is generally more forthcoming with information about our missions but
what we can and have said about this mission is determined by UW.
That is really no different to certain aspects of our own missions.?
Most members are likely familiar with the vague wording I provide for
some of our launch timelines and that is the result of the same thing,
in the owner of the launch vehicle or LSP/APIC determining what we can
say to the public and when.

2.? HO-107 was the first ever use of a new product, the AMSAT LTM.? The
LTM idea was first put forth at the AMSAT leadership strategic planning
meeting in 2017 and is now coming into availability for other non-AMSAT
CubeSats to fly amateur radio on their mission.

HO-107 is the pilot production of LTM and was developed in partnership
with UW HuskySat-1.? It was the first CubeSat radio module designed and
built by AMSAT for use in other host CubeSats, and UW was key in working
with us through the design and processes needed to provide such a
module.? They did not buy it as, nor did we give it to them as an "off
the shelf" product as we plan to for future LTM production.? LTM was
developed from the Fox-1E linear transponder design, and provided in a
partnership with UW that started in November 2014 when we made an
agreement with University of Washington to fly an amateur radio on their
CubeSat mission.? Overall, the HuskySat-1 team were quite happy with the
telemetry and command performance even with the LTM anomalies showing up
toward the end of their experiments.? In the process of getting
HuskySat-1 to orbit several students became interested in amateur radio,
and we have already had preliminary discussions of future joint mission
plans.

The ability to provide more LTM to new and future partners will increase
the number of orbiting satellites carrying amateur radio, at a low cost
to AMSAT and the partner, keeping amateur radio in space even as we
develop newer and more capable satellites.? There is no doubt that
HO-107 was a success in many ways beyond the operational life of the
transponder.?

As usual, the AMSAT Engineering team of volunteers deserve the praise
for putting yet another amateur radio in space be it in our own
satellite, or in a partner satellite!

Jerry Buxton, N?JY



From ke9v at mac.com  Sat Jul 11 21:18:17 2020
From: ke9v at mac.com (Jeff Davis)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 17:18:17 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)
In-Reply-To: <1186842614.210684.1594493829693@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1186842614.210684.1594493829693.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1186842614.210684.1594493829693@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B115810F-3176-44C0-B025-1E3FDB79B549@mac.com>


> On Jul 11, 2020, at 2:57 PM, Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> Rememnber, the new members were duly elected and then discriminated against because the board didn't like the fact that they won. So, they were given a "junior' status, which is not what we elected them to be. That is dirty pool. Very unethical.
> Brad KC9UQR

This really is the crux of the matter. Dues paying members elect a certain number of board members each cycle and if the other board members ?refuse? to work with or acknowledge the new members (or choose to prevent them from receiving access to corporate information that they are entitled to receive, etc) then the entire process of voting seems a pointless exercise - as does any reason for being a dues paying member. 

Anyone can chase satellites without ever paying a dime, more do than don?t.

And despite what you think you know, it?s impossible for the general ?membership? to really know what?s going on here. 

?Just trust us? never feels like a good answer even if it?s sometimes right. Leaders may be telling the truth or lying through their teeth. We have no way of knowing for certain who is telling the truth here. Making up your mind will require choosing sides and dividing members in the process and that?s not comfortable for anyone but it?s what?s happening at the moment.

I?d like to know why the President resigned? Surely a couple of blog posts didn?t break his will? Since I?m forced to speculate maybe he saw a peck of trouble coming and wanted out of the role, but I don?t know for certain, do I? And given the timing of all this, I?d also like to know if this is related to the recent ARISS divorce from AMSAT? I have no reason to believe it is - but I have no reason to believe it isn?t.

I?m just as curious why K6BP shows up on an annual basis to tell us who we should vote for? So far as I can tell, he's not an active satellite enthusiast and has very little to say about this facet of the hobby until election time when suddenly he reveals our numerous BIG problems and proceeds to tell us who we should vote for to fix those problems. He seems like an interloper to me, but again, I don?t know. Hell, he might actually own AMSAT for all I know?

Bottom line: throw everything written here in the dumpster and make one simple change. Require members of the BoD to publish a list of potential BoD members that they are going to refuse to work before every election. I?m no longer interested in wasting time voting without that advance guidance.

Jeff, KE9V
AMSAT 28350







From rich at ourowndomain.com  Sat Jul 11 21:25:00 2020
From: rich at ourowndomain.com (Rich Gopstein)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 17:25:00 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Foolishness
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2WN1vq0h3wOTLgCA0WUQ3fMj6MvXfJuYhzZ8s81PEOKEA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <041101d65777$43435820$c9ca0860$.ref@bellsouth.net>
	<041101d65777$43435820$c9ca0860$@bellsouth.net>
	<CA+qbou5cvEkupTR1fxsDw36zHYL-KNhigDhGTNf3+++HqQF8MA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeao5gxUZuCBmoDnXGYTzYpj5_tQMNmsE30So5psM0XJ=AQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2WN1vq0h3wOTLgCA0WUQ3fMj6MvXfJuYhzZ8s81PEOKEA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANsNeapVeXZe6MuVu6FfYxs9SkL++byqyHe7ocSaCbKrUwiwkw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Michelle.  I did not intend to imply that people associated with ORI
shouldn't be on the AMSAT board.  I'm trying to understand if there's an
agenda behind a multi-year attempt at getting a majority on the AMSAT board
- including very public accusations against the existing board and
leadership.

I think that would help people make up their mind about how to vote.

Rich
KD2CQ


On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 2:23 PM Michelle Thompson <
mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:

> I can speak to this. Thank you for the opportunity.
>
> It's the other way around. ORI provides all engineering to the general
> public, free of charge.
>
> We've pledged our successful fundraising to directly benefit AMSAT in
> every way we know how. We've done significant legal and regulatory work to
> reduce ITAR/EAR burden, produced a wide variety of software and firmware,
> and now have the funds to prototype the hardware required for microwave
> broadband communications payloads.
>
> We've published open source implementations of the best forward error
> correction codes that exist. We just bought a full Vivado floating license
> that anyone in the community can use.
>
> The board and associate members (we have no paid members, so we don't even
> compete there) have been completely transparent about the intent and
> purpose of the engineering done by ORI.
>
> ORI is a Member Society of AMSAT.
>
> It's odd how ORI is portrayed here, yet Directors current and previous
> that have dual roles - such as working for NASA, working at Universities
> with commercial satellite projects, and working for commercial satellite
> companies - simply never get any criticism for using AMSAT to help their
> career or projects. In many cases, AMSAT has been used to further outside
> or commercial careers. Many of these people are unquestionably celebrated.
>
> When someone (like myself) that starts a successful 501(c)(3) that works
> in the opposite direction - freely giving to the organization and
> supporting it whenever possible - one would hope it would be perceived as a
> positive.
>
> All of this engineering and fundraising was the exact sort of thing I was
> doing within AMSAT engineering. When Joe Spier shut down the entire
> project, the dozens of people on the team asked if we could keep going.
> Bruce Perens was instrumental here in helping set up a 501(c)(3) that could
> operate as a research institute. And the rest is documented on our website.
>
> While people like me shouldn't have to set up an entirely independent
> formal structure to volunteer for the AMSAT community, it has turned out to
> be fun, successful, and quite complementary to AMSAT's aims and purposes.
>
> ORI is not a membership organization. It's not in competition for members.
> We sign up AMSAT members at every event we hold. We promote AMSAT publicly.
>
> If the leadership of AMSAT really wants to view organizations like ORI as
> some sort of threat or crisis, then they are deliberately choosing to be
> anti-collaborative.
>
> If you have to have Directors that don't have any other interests outside
> AMSAT, then you will end up with people that don't bring things like a
> strong network, experiences, or other organizational assets to the job.
>
> Should Tom Clark have been thrown off the AMSAT board because he was also
> on the Virginia Tech Space Advisory Board? Should Brennan Price not be
> Secretary because he works for Inmarsat?
>
> The opposite is also true. Ordinary people with ordinary common sense
> should also be in leadership. Diversity on the board can only improve it.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 1:43 PM Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> I'm guessing it's more complex than that.  I suspect this is really about
>> ORI and trying to get AMSAT to outsource their satellite engineering to
>> ORI.  MIchelle Thompson is the CEO of ORI...
>>
>> https://openresearch.institute/board-of-directors/
>>
>> Rich, KD2CQ
>> AMSAT life member
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 8:34 AM John Spasojevich via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>> > All reads to me like a couple people broke into the old boys club and
>> > weren?t welcomed to the playground. AMSAT has been run by the same
>> people
>> > for years and years and years. Then again not many run for office so our
>> > choices are limited.
>> >
>> > John AG9D
>> >
>> > On Saturday, July 11, 2020, Nick Pugh via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > This is a hobby
>> > >
>> > > Spending money on lawyer instead of satellite is dumb
>> > >
>> > > My hope is you get on a Zoom call and put the fire out and take us to
>> HEO
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Nickk k5qxj
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Cell      337 258 2527
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Helping UL become a world Class Engineering  and Educational School
>> > >
>> > > Disagree I Learn
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> > Opinions
>> > > expressed
>> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of
>> > > AMSAT-NA.
>> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> > program!
>> > > Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions
>> > expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> > AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>

From skristof at etczone.com  Sat Jul 11 21:31:46 2020
From: skristof at etczone.com (Steve Kristoff)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 17:31:46 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)
In-Reply-To: <1442215093.239842.1594499675615@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1186842614.210684.1594493829693.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1186842614.210684.1594493829693@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1442215093.239842.1594499675615@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c388d5f6929800c63905dc083f0432b9@etczone.com>


But what about all the money (members dues money!) spent on lawyers instead of satellites? And after consulting with the lawyers the president resigns?! Seems to me like it's time to clean house.

?Steve AI9IN

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
Date: 07/11/20 16:39
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)

Patrick Stoddard and Michelle Thompson were emplaced on the Board as Directors and aforded the same rights and privileges as the the other elected and standing Directors. ?No one treated them as "second class" Directors. ?In fact, every effort was made to welcome them on the Board.
Stoddard and Thompson had the ability to make motions, lead discussions and vote, just as the other five directors, and they did. ? At no time were either of them prevented from doing their elected duties. ?To say otherwise is a completely FALSE statement. AMSAT is a nonprofit corporation with the purpose of designing, building, launching, operating and promoting amateur radio satellites and space communications. ?AMSAT's leadership and volunteers work every day to do this. ?We have a lot of opportunities on the horizon with GOLF-TEE, GOLF-1, our return to high Earth Orbits, and AREx. ? AMSAT is no place for politics and political rhetoric. ?Let's get back to work. ? ?Robert, KE4AL
TreasurerVice-President, User ServicesDirector, AMSAT AmbassadorsRadio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)

? ?On Saturday, July 11, 2020, 01:58:16 PM CDT, Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: ?

<And how would you describe the ethics of the two newest boardmembers each creating online blogs where they cast doubt on AMSAT andthe people running it? A little over a month on the BOD and in Octalready on that blog posting grievances.>
Rememnber, the new members were duly elected and then discriminated against because the board didn't like the fact that they won. So, they were given a "junior' status, which is not what we elected them to be. That is dirty pool. Very unethical.
Brad KC9UQR





From zmetzing at pobox.com  Sat Jul 11 21:55:05 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 16:55:05 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Proposal for new list
Message-ID: <67a0e381-b519-4ba8-6b88-f7570fda7023@pobox.com>


Hello all,

I propose that a new list be created, separate from amsat-bb, for 
discussion of administrative issues regarding AMSAT. This would improve 
the SNR of amsat-bb for those of us who just want to play radio and work 
satellites.

Thanks,

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From kb2mjeff at att.net  Sat Jul 11 22:16:23 2020
From: kb2mjeff at att.net (kb2mjeff at att.net)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 18:16:23 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)
In-Reply-To: <c388d5f6929800c63905dc083f0432b9@etczone.com>
References: <1186842614.210684.1594493829693.ref@mail.yahoo.com>	<1186842614.210684.1594493829693@mail.yahoo.com>	<1442215093.239842.1594499675615@mail.yahoo.com>
	<c388d5f6929800c63905dc083f0432b9@etczone.com>
Message-ID: <01be01d657d0$ea4f7be0$beee73a0$@att.net>

I'm thinking Joe just had enough of all this BS, and I certainly don't blame him....

73 Jeff kb2m

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2020 17:32
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)


But what about all the money (members dues money!) spent on lawyers instead of satellites? And after consulting with the lawyers the president resigns?! Seems to me like it's time to clean house.

 Steve AI9IN

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
Date: 07/11/20 16:39
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)

Patrick Stoddard and Michelle Thompson were emplaced on the Board as Directors and aforded the same rights and privileges as the the other elected and standing Directors.  No one treated them as "second class" Directors.  In fact, every effort was made to welcome them on the Board.
Stoddard and Thompson had the ability to make motions, lead discussions and vote, just as the other five directors, and they did.   At no time were either of them prevented from doing their elected duties.  To say otherwise is a completely FALSE statement. AMSAT is a nonprofit corporation with the purpose of designing, building, launching, operating and promoting amateur radio satellites and space communications.  AMSAT's leadership and volunteers work every day to do this.  We have a lot of opportunities on the horizon with GOLF-TEE, GOLF-1, our return to high Earth Orbits, and AREx.   AMSAT is no place for politics and political rhetoric.  Let's get back to work.    Robert, KE4AL TreasurerVice-President, User ServicesDirector, AMSAT AmbassadorsRadio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)

   On Saturday, July 11, 2020, 01:58:16 PM CDT, Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  

<And how would you describe the ethics of the two newest boardmembers each creating online blogs where they cast doubt on AMSAT andthe people running it? A little over a month on the BOD and in Octalready on that blog posting grievances.> Rememnber, the new members were duly elected and then discriminated against because the board didn't like the fact that they won. So, they were given a "junior' status, which is not what we elected them to be. That is dirty pool. Very unethical.
Brad KC9UQR




_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From zmetzing at pobox.com  Sat Jul 11 22:20:24 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 17:20:24 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Modeling the AA2TX Parasitic Lindenblad
In-Reply-To: <CAD7_4hz-7wtb_Ma4znraiaO+z7aDZkERbeQnk6FGWUuZHE+6_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d71c7c1-2ee1-92cc-5d44-bd51d562c65b@pobox.com>
	<CACvjz2V93dQgbh=535BpkEWvRZipEnX6y_06yg=bzsHbhO5b_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD7_4hz-7wtb_Ma4znraiaO+z7aDZkERbeQnk6FGWUuZHE+6_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b35a4abd-6bc2-8d74-c050-93a91e0f3948@pobox.com>

On 07/10/20 19:43, Curt Laumann via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> My intuition is guided by a couple of semesters of E&M and a few decades of
> antenna building and testing.  BUT it's only my *intuition*, and I'd be
> very interested in hearing the results of any modeling!
> 
> As an aside, I'm also working to build this antenna with my newly-acquired
> 3D printer, using PETG in fact!  I'm redesigning the 70-cm Lindy as well as
> 2-m Lindy to use arrow shaft elements.  In this manner the antenna will be
> easy to disassemble and easily portablized.  Or transported  :)

Hello Curt,

Thank you for the encouragement. I wish I recalled enough of my EM 
Theory class for this, but I think I've repressed it ever since I eeked 
out of it with a passing grade. Probably because the professor started a 
class trying to derive something unrelated to homework or exams one day, 
got to the end, then realized he'd made a mistake in the first 5 
minutes. "You can just go back and fix that and it'll all work out."

I'm finishing up the 3D model right now, using openscad, and will kick 
off the print tonight.

I plan to put the model up on my webpage for any/all to use, modify, 
contribute back to, etc. once I have it working.

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From diehl.mike.a at gmail.com  Sat Jul 11 22:24:02 2020
From: diehl.mike.a at gmail.com (Mike Diehl)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 18:24:02 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)
In-Reply-To: <B115810F-3176-44C0-B025-1E3FDB79B549@mac.com>
References: <B115810F-3176-44C0-B025-1E3FDB79B549@mac.com>
Message-ID: <635F4ADE-D5EC-49C8-AA87-5B52C0E213CD@gmail.com>

Jeff,

I?ll tell you why Bruce shows up like clockwork, it only takes a little digging. Bruce founded ORI in 2018. Two years later it appears he is listed as President Emeritus according to ORI?s site. You don?t need to be a rocket surgeon to figure out why he comes around at election time. ORI appears to have an interest in AMSAT resources. 

I questioned Bruce?s intentions on Twitter during last election. I also brought up that he only seems to stick around for about 2 years with anything. He denied this but it seems he has proven me right because he founded ORI in 2018 and is now apparently retired from the position. Shocking, I know. 

Read the entirety of his Wikipedia page and you will see why I think he?s a short term pot stirrer. You?ll also see why it would be of no surprise to anyone that AMSAT would need to lawyer up after he came onto the scene. 

When you take a careful look around you?ll find we have a couple of snakes in the grass. It?s not a matter of refusal to work with others but that we have some that seem to want to work for their own interests and were met with resistance. 

73,
Mike Diehl
W8LID/VE6LID

>> On Jul 11, 2020, at 17:22, Jeff Davis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> ?
>> On Jul 11, 2020, at 2:57 PM, Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Rememnber, the new members were duly elected and then discriminated against because the board didn't like the fact that they won. So, they were given a "junior' status, which is not what we elected them to be. That is dirty pool. Very unethical.
>> Brad KC9UQR
> 
> This really is the crux of the matter. Dues paying members elect a certain number of board members each cycle and if the other board members ?refuse? to work with or acknowledge the new members (or choose to prevent them from receiving access to corporate information that they are entitled to receive, etc) then the entire process of voting seems a pointless exercise - as does any reason for being a dues paying member. 
> 
> Anyone can chase satellites without ever paying a dime, more do than don?t.
> 
> And despite what you think you know, it?s impossible for the general ?membership? to really know what?s going on here. 
> 
> ?Just trust us? never feels like a good answer even if it?s sometimes right. Leaders may be telling the truth or lying through their teeth. We have no way of knowing for certain who is telling the truth here. Making up your mind will require choosing sides and dividing members in the process and that?s not comfortable for anyone but it?s what?s happening at the moment.
> 
> I?d like to know why the President resigned? Surely a couple of blog posts didn?t break his will? Since I?m forced to speculate maybe he saw a peck of trouble coming and wanted out of the role, but I don?t know for certain, do I? And given the timing of all this, I?d also like to know if this is related to the recent ARISS divorce from AMSAT? I have no reason to believe it is - but I have no reason to believe it isn?t.
> 
> I?m just as curious why K6BP shows up on an annual basis to tell us who we should vote for? So far as I can tell, he's not an active satellite enthusiast and has very little to say about this facet of the hobby until election time when suddenly he reveals our numerous BIG problems and proceeds to tell us who we should vote for to fix those problems. He seems like an interloper to me, but again, I don?t know. Hell, he might actually own AMSAT for all I know?
> 
> Bottom line: throw everything written here in the dumpster and make one simple change. Require members of the BoD to publish a list of potential BoD members that they are going to refuse to work before every election. I?m no longer interested in wasting time voting without that advance guidance.
> 
> Jeff, KE9V
> AMSAT 28350
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From johnv at frontier.com  Sun Jul 12 00:03:42 2020
From: johnv at frontier.com (johnv at frontier.com)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 00:03:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Proposal for new list
In-Reply-To: <67a0e381-b519-4ba8-6b88-f7570fda7023@pobox.com>
References: <67a0e381-b519-4ba8-6b88-f7570fda7023@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <737982444.296731.1594512222434@mail.yahoo.com>

I tend to agree since I have no idea what administrative problem(s) there alleged? to be.???? It can be handled elsewhere.
This seems to be very minor when you compare it to how the individual states are being "run" and as we go down the hole in a hand basket.??? 

I will not reply to anyone else since I will remove myself from this list serve.
I'm not mad, just going away.

John 
N7AME


Faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.
 

    On Saturday, July 11, 2020, 2:57:16 PM PDT, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 
Hello all,

I propose that a new list be created, separate from amsat-bb, for 
discussion of administrative issues regarding AMSAT. This would improve 
the SNR of amsat-bb for those of us who just want to play radio and work 
satellites.

Thanks,

--- Zach
N0ZGO
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From devin at thecabal.org  Sun Jul 12 00:05:13 2020
From: devin at thecabal.org (Devin L. Ganger)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 00:05:13 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)
In-Reply-To: <9c097576-4f23-9cf5-d184-1631ea354cea@gmail.com>
References: <1186842614.210684.1594493829693.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1186842614.210684.1594493829693@mail.yahoo.com>,
	<9c097576-4f23-9cf5-d184-1631ea354cea@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MWHPR01MB2352561EA4C892EC467F2B4CCA620@MWHPR01MB2352.prod.exchangelabs.com>

One thing folks perhaps need to keep in mind before assigning motives is that a clash of culture is likely a large component here. From the IT industry over the past 25+ years and the rise of Open Source Software, I have watched this culture clash time and again.

Many OSS advocates believe passionately in openness and transparency. All the dirty laundry is hashed out in public. Getting The Work done is more important than egos, personalities, and hurt feelings. If the process keeps you from getting the work done, then you Chan the process. There is a lot of merit in this point of view but it is not without its flaw; disputes can become personal (or feel personal) very quickly on all sides, of The Work To Be Done does not sufficiently define a scope that includes the social environment. And arguably, one of the big components for AMSAT?s mission is a social component for community-building and maintenance. This mindset often clashes badly with more traditional corporate and government cultures.

At the same time, non-OSS culture has some pretty good things going for it too.

I can only speak for myself, but I voted for some of the new directors because I wanted to see them work together to bring some hybrid vigor to AMSAT, not as a referendum to find-and-replace. I think everyone is acting from good intentions, but all y?all need to figure out how to speak outside of your comfortable paradigm and figure out a way to successfully co-exist.


--
Devin L. Ganger (WA7DLG)
email: devin at thecabal.org
web: Devin on Earth
cell: +1 425.239.2575
________________________________
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> on behalf of Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2020 1:19:19 PM
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)

   Brad,
     Now that I have had time to read most of the wd9ewk blogs and
links, it's clear to me that he has an ax to grind against multiple
people in the AMSAT organization, some of it going back years.

   The ink had barely dried on the ballots and he was already making
claims of poor treatment, maybe some who have tangled with him in the
past were not excited that he was elected, that's human nature.

    But seriously, his  Sept 30th entry "Unfortunately, AMSAT President
Joe Spier K6WAO has not shown leadership in the transition to the
newly-elected Board and its preparations for the upcoming meeting in
Virginia, and this is disappointing. "  can you honestly look me in the
eye and say this is acceptable for someone who has just got onto the BOD
to say in a online blog? How could this ever be considered productive?

     And then you expect everyone to ignore that and welcome him? Then
you read further and he proclaims that he is not sad at Joe resigning
and that he had called for his resignation the previous summer over
another matter!

   No , I'm sorry but the more I read the more I believe He came in with
a attitude of wanting to make trouble.

  That's my opinion, others should read the blog and links from the
beginning to end with a open mind  and ask, does this look like someone
trying to make it work or someone looking for any reason to complain and
then post it online to create trouble for AMSAT?

keep in mind you are seeing a one sided blog only from the person who is
not happy.

http://amsat.wd9ewk.net/ <http://amsat.wd9ewk.net/>

Every member should read it, and then each decide for themselves if it's
an honest effort for progress or one huge complaint session.

Kevin WA7FWF #19623



On 7/11/2020 11:57 AM, Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> <And how would you describe the ethics of the two newest boardmembers each creating online blogs where they cast doubt on AMSAT andthe people running it? A little over a month on the BOD and in Octalready on that blog posting grievances.>
> Rememnber, the new members were duly elected and then discriminated against because the board didn't like the fact that they won. So, they were given a "junior' status, which is not what we elected them to be. That is dirty pool. Very unethical.
> Brad KC9UQR
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From spatrickfay at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 00:11:09 2020
From: spatrickfay at gmail.com (sean fay)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 19:11:09 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Proposal for new list
In-Reply-To: <67a0e381-b519-4ba8-6b88-f7570fda7023@pobox.com>
References: <67a0e381-b519-4ba8-6b88-f7570fda7023@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <CAEWsTrOt71-0EVY-awQ=F8Gp=jwnnjCDKQr8S3DPu9-KigDaZw@mail.gmail.com>

Why bother being a member of a non profit if you don't want engagement in
the inner workings.



On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 4:57 PM Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

>
> Hello all,
>
> I propose that a new list be created, separate from amsat-bb, for
> discussion of administrative issues regarding AMSAT. This would improve
> the SNR of amsat-bb for those of us who just want to play radio and work
> satellites.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --- Zach
> N0ZGO
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From n0jy at amsat.org  Sun Jul 12 00:26:47 2020
From: n0jy at amsat.org (Jerry Buxton)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 19:26:47 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)
In-Reply-To: <01be01d657d0$ea4f7be0$beee73a0$@att.net>
References: <1186842614.210684.1594493829693.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1186842614.210684.1594493829693@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1442215093.239842.1594499675615@mail.yahoo.com>
	<c388d5f6929800c63905dc083f0432b9@etczone.com>
	<01be01d657d0$ea4f7be0$beee73a0$@att.net>
Message-ID: <48e36178-6159-103c-7b7c-d7d06f48233d@amsat.org>

On 7/11/2020 17:16, Jeff via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> I'm thinking Joe just had enough of all this BS, and I certainly don't blame him....
I will say that just like everyone, there are "real life" things that
come up and demand and deserve the attention even if it impacts our
hobby.? AMSAT Officers really are very dedicated volunteers and the
hours are long (as my wife liked to say, "I saw more of you when you got
paid to work.")? Real life can slam what hours we have grown used to
giving our hobby and that easily causes the appearance of neglect or
wondering why an Officer appears to have gone AWOL.? Since the real life
stuff is often personal, despite the amount of sharing or appearances
any volunteer is known for most are not willing to share their personal
life and problems with fellow hams everywhere via the same media they
usually use.? Most probably don't even happen to think about any
unexplained absence perceived by anyone beyond letting our other
Officers and team leads know.? And when it gets too deep something's
gotta give, and it will be hobby/volunteer time spent toward others but
the information shared publicly is often "personal reasons" for the
obvious reason.? I don't think Joe or anyone else who has had to step
down or step back from any position and effort they have been
volunteering to AMSAT take that decision lightly or without reluctance
when it comes.
Having had enough is certainly something that would be understandable
since this is "just a hobby" but the reason for departure is not as
likely to be a somber "personal reasons".? It's probably a much more
lively response, I would imagine!?? hihi

Jerry Buxton, N?JY


From nicholasmahr1 at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 00:26:59 2020
From: nicholasmahr1 at gmail.com (Nick)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 20:26:59 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] huskysat-1
Message-ID: <CAGu+VYuLe4GSZNs1xJw7urzNLwf=d9DG-zKqhOq7P5EFW4H8hA@mail.gmail.com>

Jerry,
Very nice to hear a update on HO-107. We appreciate you and the engineering
teams hard work on the LTM module projects. Do we know why HO-107 got to
80c other then the full illumination period? Would there be a way to
mitigate that in the future or is it just something that has to be dealt
with? I know AO-85 suffered a similar fate of heat stroke but lasted many
years. Looking foward to seeing AMSAT partner with many others to get the
LTM module into orbit. Regardless of it only working 3 months, it is still
a rousing sucess that will lead to many more launches with other partners.

Thanks, Nick KE8AKW

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Sun Jul 12 00:48:41 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 19:48:41 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Proposal for new list
In-Reply-To: <CAEWsTrOt71-0EVY-awQ=F8Gp=jwnnjCDKQr8S3DPu9-KigDaZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <67a0e381-b519-4ba8-6b88-f7570fda7023@pobox.com>
	<CAEWsTrOt71-0EVY-awQ=F8Gp=jwnnjCDKQr8S3DPu9-KigDaZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a98e49c4-b9cc-d611-e8fa-596b55a2b136@pobox.com>

On 2020-07-11 19:11, sean fay wrote:
> Why bother being a member of a non profit if you don't want engagement 
> in the inner workings.

One might also ask: "Why bother being an Amateur Radio operator unless 
you want to build your own equipment from scratch?"

Everyone has some aspect of this hobby that they enjoy.

There are various areas of interest for me, and mud-slinging is not one 
of them. Building stuff is what I'm here for, and I'm heavily engaged in 
that.

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From maccody at att.net  Sun Jul 12 02:52:47 2020
From: maccody at att.net (Mac A. Cody)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 21:52:47 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)
In-Reply-To: <48e36178-6159-103c-7b7c-d7d06f48233d@amsat.org>
References: <1186842614.210684.1594493829693.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1186842614.210684.1594493829693@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1442215093.239842.1594499675615@mail.yahoo.com>
	<c388d5f6929800c63905dc083f0432b9@etczone.com>
	<01be01d657d0$ea4f7be0$beee73a0$@att.net>
	<48e36178-6159-103c-7b7c-d7d06f48233d@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <ce881b44-7bfd-5fb6-eff2-2b6498efc57c@att.net>

As a means of affirming what Jerry has stated here, I'll comment
about my own experiences.? A few years ago, I volunteered to
help out on the AMSAT-SDR project.? Unfortunately, I had to bow
out because my employer was concerned about possible conflict of
interest.? It sucked, but I didn't want to place AMSAT, or the
other individuals that had volunteered to help, in a situation that
might impact the use of the technologies that were developed. If
anything, it spurred AMSAT to draw up a policy document on how to
address this type of conflict of interest.

I used to be a relatively frequent presence on the FM satellites,
but my involvement has pretty much ceased due to my work.? Let's
just say that I have developed some technologies in recent years,
some supporting the field of satellite networking, that are
starting to take off.? Consequently, my free time has become more
dominated by other priorities.

Sometimes life gets in the way.? Sometimes the reasons are good
and other times they are not.? We just have to be patient when it
happens to us and understanding when it happens to others.

73,

Mac Cody / AE5PH

On 7/11/20 7:26 PM, Jerry Buxton via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> On 7/11/2020 17:16, Jeff via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>> I'm thinking Joe just had enough of all this BS, and I certainly don't blame him....
> I will say that just like everyone, there are "real life" things that
> come up and demand and deserve the attention even if it impacts our
> hobby.? AMSAT Officers really are very dedicated volunteers and the
> hours are long (as my wife liked to say, "I saw more of you when you got
> paid to work.")? Real life can slam what hours we have grown used to
> giving our hobby and that easily causes the appearance of neglect or
> wondering why an Officer appears to have gone AWOL.? Since the real life
> stuff is often personal, despite the amount of sharing or appearances
> any volunteer is known for most are not willing to share their personal
> life and problems with fellow hams everywhere via the same media they
> usually use.? Most probably don't even happen to think about any
> unexplained absence perceived by anyone beyond letting our other
> Officers and team leads know.? And when it gets too deep something's
> gotta give, and it will be hobby/volunteer time spent toward others but
> the information shared publicly is often "personal reasons" for the
> obvious reason.? I don't think Joe or anyone else who has had to step
> down or step back from any position and effort they have been
> volunteering to AMSAT take that decision lightly or without reluctance
> when it comes.
> Having had enough is certainly something that would be understandable
> since this is "just a hobby" but the reason for departure is not as
> likely to be a somber "personal reasons".? It's probably a much more
> lively response, I would imagine!?? hihi
>
> Jerry Buxton, N?JY
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb



From w3ab at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 12 03:53:55 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 20:53:55 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)
In-Reply-To: <ce881b44-7bfd-5fb6-eff2-2b6498efc57c@att.net>
References: <1186842614.210684.1594493829693.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1186842614.210684.1594493829693@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1442215093.239842.1594499675615@mail.yahoo.com>
	<c388d5f6929800c63905dc083f0432b9@etczone.com>
	<01be01d657d0$ea4f7be0$beee73a0$@att.net>
	<48e36178-6159-103c-7b7c-d7d06f48233d@amsat.org>
	<ce881b44-7bfd-5fb6-eff2-2b6498efc57c@att.net>
Message-ID: <6011b4bf-88be-47a9-9ca1-839966207b04@yahoo.com>

Well stated Mac.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 11, 2020, 19:55, at 19:55, "Mac A. Cody via AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>As a means of affirming what Jerry has stated here, I'll comment
>about my own experiences.? A few years ago, I volunteered to
>help out on the AMSAT-SDR project.? Unfortunately, I had to bow
>out because my employer was concerned about possible conflict of
>interest.? It sucked, but I didn't want to place AMSAT, or the
>other individuals that had volunteered to help, in a situation that
>might impact the use of the technologies that were developed. If
>anything, it spurred AMSAT to draw up a policy document on how to
>address this type of conflict of interest.
>
>I used to be a relatively frequent presence on the FM satellites,
>but my involvement has pretty much ceased due to my work.? Let's
>just say that I have developed some technologies in recent years,
>some supporting the field of satellite networking, that are
>starting to take off.? Consequently, my free time has become more
>dominated by other priorities.
>
>Sometimes life gets in the way.? Sometimes the reasons are good
>and other times they are not.? We just have to be patient when it
>happens to us and understanding when it happens to others.
>
>73,
>
>Mac Cody / AE5PH
>
>On 7/11/20 7:26 PM, Jerry Buxton via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>> On 7/11/2020 17:16, Jeff via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>>> I'm thinking Joe just had enough of all this BS, and I certainly
>don't blame him....
>> I will say that just like everyone, there are "real life" things that
>> come up and demand and deserve the attention even if it impacts our
>> hobby.? AMSAT Officers really are very dedicated volunteers and the
>> hours are long (as my wife liked to say, "I saw more of you when you
>got
>> paid to work.")? Real life can slam what hours we have grown used to
>> giving our hobby and that easily causes the appearance of neglect or
>> wondering why an Officer appears to have gone AWOL.? Since the real
>life
>> stuff is often personal, despite the amount of sharing or appearances
>> any volunteer is known for most are not willing to share their
>personal
>> life and problems with fellow hams everywhere via the same media they
>> usually use.? Most probably don't even happen to think about any
>> unexplained absence perceived by anyone beyond letting our other
>> Officers and team leads know.? And when it gets too deep something's
>> gotta give, and it will be hobby/volunteer time spent toward others
>but
>> the information shared publicly is often "personal reasons" for the
>> obvious reason.? I don't think Joe or anyone else who has had to step
>> down or step back from any position and effort they have been
>> volunteering to AMSAT take that decision lightly or without
>reluctance
>> when it comes.
>> Having had enough is certainly something that would be understandable
>> since this is "just a hobby" but the reason for departure is not as
>> likely to be a somber "personal reasons".? It's probably a much more
>> lively response, I would imagine!?? hihi
>>
>> Jerry Buxton, N?JY
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>> Subscription settings:
>https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From bernd1peters at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 04:13:47 2020
From: bernd1peters at gmail.com (bernd1peters at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 21:13:47 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Proposal for new list
In-Reply-To: <737982444.296731.1594512222434@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <67a0e381-b519-4ba8-6b88-f7570fda7023@pobox.com>
	<737982444.296731.1594512222434@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0b4e01d65802$d79b5af0$86d210d0$@gmail.com>

Agree, one list for radio and another one for politics and lawyers

Bernd - KB7AK

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of johnv--- via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2020 5:04 PM
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org; Zach Metzinger <zmetzing at pobox.com>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Proposal for new list

I tend to agree since I have no idea what administrative problem(s) there alleged  to be.     It can be handled elsewhere.
This seems to be very minor when you compare it to how the individual states are being "run" and as we go down the hole in a hand basket.    

I will not reply to anyone else since I will remove myself from this list serve.
I'm not mad, just going away.

John 
N7AME


Faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.
 

    On Saturday, July 11, 2020, 2:57:16 PM PDT, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 
Hello all,

I propose that a new list be created, separate from amsat-bb, for 
discussion of administrative issues regarding AMSAT. This would improve 
the SNR of amsat-bb for those of us who just want to play radio and work 
satellites.

Thanks,

--- Zach
N0ZGO
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 05:14:33 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 22:14:33 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Foolishness
In-Reply-To: <CANsNeapVeXZe6MuVu6FfYxs9SkL++byqyHe7ocSaCbKrUwiwkw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <041101d65777$43435820$c9ca0860$.ref@bellsouth.net>
	<041101d65777$43435820$c9ca0860$@bellsouth.net>
	<CA+qbou5cvEkupTR1fxsDw36zHYL-KNhigDhGTNf3+++HqQF8MA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeao5gxUZuCBmoDnXGYTzYpj5_tQMNmsE30So5psM0XJ=AQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2WN1vq0h3wOTLgCA0WUQ3fMj6MvXfJuYhzZ8s81PEOKEA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeapVeXZe6MuVu6FfYxs9SkL++byqyHe7ocSaCbKrUwiwkw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2XuYCvWsoEqjUETnMO1sUxtduv-khM2a=yEQb6at_2M+Q@mail.gmail.com>

The only agenda is to serve the members.

I want to work with people that provide basic corporate oversight, support
the ITAR/EAR public domain carve outs, and see the value in microwave
broadband digital payload work.

That won't happen with the incumbents.

They can't even be bothered to hold meetings.

Therefore, I and others have spoken up.

Please send us a team that can get ambitious things done.

-Michelle W5NYV


On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 14:25 Rich Gopstein <rich at ourowndomain.com> wrote:

> Thanks Michelle.  I did not intend to imply that people associated with
> ORI shouldn't be on the AMSAT board.  I'm trying to understand if there's
> an agenda behind a multi-year attempt at getting a majority on the AMSAT
> board - including very public accusations against the existing board and
> leadership.
>
> I think that would help people make up their mind about how to vote.
>
> Rich
> KD2CQ
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 2:23 PM Michelle Thompson <
> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I can speak to this. Thank you for the opportunity.
>>
>> It's the other way around. ORI provides all engineering to the general
>> public, free of charge.
>>
>> We've pledged our successful fundraising to directly benefit AMSAT in
>> every way we know how. We've done significant legal and regulatory work to
>> reduce ITAR/EAR burden, produced a wide variety of software and firmware,
>> and now have the funds to prototype the hardware required for microwave
>> broadband communications payloads.
>>
>> We've published open source implementations of the best forward error
>> correction codes that exist. We just bought a full Vivado floating license
>> that anyone in the community can use.
>>
>> The board and associate members (we have no paid members, so we don't
>> even compete there) have been completely transparent about the intent and
>> purpose of the engineering done by ORI.
>>
>> ORI is a Member Society of AMSAT.
>>
>> It's odd how ORI is portrayed here, yet Directors current and previous
>> that have dual roles - such as working for NASA, working at Universities
>> with commercial satellite projects, and working for commercial satellite
>> companies - simply never get any criticism for using AMSAT to help their
>> career or projects. In many cases, AMSAT has been used to further outside
>> or commercial careers. Many of these people are unquestionably celebrated.
>>
>> When someone (like myself) that starts a successful 501(c)(3) that works
>> in the opposite direction - freely giving to the organization and
>> supporting it whenever possible - one would hope it would be perceived as a
>> positive.
>>
>> All of this engineering and fundraising was the exact sort of thing I was
>> doing within AMSAT engineering. When Joe Spier shut down the entire
>> project, the dozens of people on the team asked if we could keep going.
>> Bruce Perens was instrumental here in helping set up a 501(c)(3) that could
>> operate as a research institute. And the rest is documented on our website.
>>
>> While people like me shouldn't have to set up an entirely independent
>> formal structure to volunteer for the AMSAT community, it has turned out to
>> be fun, successful, and quite complementary to AMSAT's aims and purposes.
>>
>> ORI is not a membership organization. It's not in competition for
>> members. We sign up AMSAT members at every event we hold. We promote AMSAT
>> publicly.
>>
>> If the leadership of AMSAT really wants to view organizations like ORI as
>> some sort of threat or crisis, then they are deliberately choosing to be
>> anti-collaborative.
>>
>> If you have to have Directors that don't have any other interests outside
>> AMSAT, then you will end up with people that don't bring things like a
>> strong network, experiences, or other organizational assets to the job.
>>
>> Should Tom Clark have been thrown off the AMSAT board because he was also
>> on the Virginia Tech Space Advisory Board? Should Brennan Price not be
>> Secretary because he works for Inmarsat?
>>
>> The opposite is also true. Ordinary people with ordinary common sense
>> should also be in leadership. Diversity on the board can only improve it.
>>
>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 1:43 PM Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm guessing it's more complex than that.  I suspect this is really about
>>> ORI and trying to get AMSAT to outsource their satellite engineering to
>>> ORI.  MIchelle Thompson is the CEO of ORI...
>>>
>>> https://openresearch.institute/board-of-directors/
>>>
>>> Rich, KD2CQ
>>> AMSAT life member
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 8:34 AM John Spasojevich via AMSAT-BB <
>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> > All reads to me like a couple people broke into the old boys club and
>>> > weren?t welcomed to the playground. AMSAT has been run by the same
>>> people
>>> > for years and years and years. Then again not many run for office so
>>> our
>>> > choices are limited.
>>> >
>>> > John AG9D
>>> >
>>> > On Saturday, July 11, 2020, Nick Pugh via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org
>>> >
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > This is a hobby
>>> > >
>>> > > Spending money on lawyer instead of satellite is dumb
>>> > >
>>> > > My hope is you get on a Zoom call and put the fire out and take us
>>> to HEO
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Nickk k5qxj
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Cell      337 258 2527
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Helping UL become a world Class Engineering  and Educational School
>>> > >
>>> > > Disagree I Learn
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>> available
>>> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> > Opinions
>>> > > expressed
>>> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>> views of
>>> > > AMSAT-NA.
>>> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> > program!
>>> > > Subscription settings:
>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> > >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions
>>> > expressed
>>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>> of
>>> > AMSAT-NA.
>>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 05:25:57 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 22:25:57 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)
In-Reply-To: <1442215093.239842.1594499675615@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1186842614.210684.1594493829693.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1186842614.210684.1594493829693@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1442215093.239842.1594499675615@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2XZ+vv1O9-Ujx=TU5MRucLN=E9ZAo4Foo1xX5LRquUyzg@mail.gmail.com>

That isn't true.

What you are saying is an easily disproven lie.

It took a demand letter, spelling out DC corporate code, to get access to
ordinary corporate documents and communications.

That is a simple legal fact, confirmed by Clayton Coleman himself.

You can have your own opinions, but you do not get to have your own facts.

If the members reading this want change, then please change the leadership.

-Michelle W5NYV

On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 13:41 Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Patrick Stoddard and Michelle Thompson were emplaced on the Board as
> Directors and aforded the same rights and privileges as the the other
> elected and standing Directors.  No one treated them as "second class"
> Directors.  In fact, every effort was made to welcome them on the Board.
>  Stoddard and Thompson had the ability to make motions, lead discussions
> and vote, just as the other five directors, and they did.   At no time were
> either of them prevented from doing their elected duties.  To say otherwise
> is a completely FALSE statement. AMSAT is a nonprofit corporation with the
> purpose of designing, building, launching, operating and promoting amateur
> radio satellites and space communications.  AMSAT's leadership and
> volunteers work every day to do this.  We have a lot of opportunities on
> the horizon with GOLF-TEE, GOLF-1, our return to high Earth Orbits, and
> AREx.   AMSAT is no place for politics and political rhetoric.  Let's get
> back to work.    Robert, KE4AL
> TreasurerVice-President, User ServicesDirector, AMSAT AmbassadorsRadio
> Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)
>
>     On Saturday, July 11, 2020, 01:58:16 PM CDT, Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>  <And how would you describe the ethics of the two newest boardmembers
> each creating online blogs where they cast doubt on AMSAT andthe people
> running it? A little over a month on the BOD and in Octalready on that blog
> posting grievances.>
> Rememnber, the new members were duly elected and then discriminated
> against because the board didn't like the fact that they won. So, they were
> given a "junior' status, which is not what we elected them to be. That is
> dirty pool. Very unethical.
> Brad KC9UQR
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From matthias.bopp at dd1us.de  Sun Jul 12 09:21:55 2020
From: matthias.bopp at dd1us.de (Matthias Bopp)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 09:21:55 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Proposal for new list
In-Reply-To: <CAEWsTrOt71-0EVY-awQ=F8Gp=jwnnjCDKQr8S3DPu9-KigDaZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <67a0e381-b519-4ba8-6b88-f7570fda7023@pobox.com>
	<CAEWsTrOt71-0EVY-awQ=F8Gp=jwnnjCDKQr8S3DPu9-KigDaZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <LEXPR01MB049322C02B524499682BE3F4DE630@LEXPR01MB0493.DEUPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.DE>

Hi,

My understanding is that the AMSAT-BB was meant to be an international forum for AMSAT members and people interested in it, not just for AMSAT-NA.

Presently it seems to me that it is dominantly an AMSAT-NA forum dealing with internal problems in a way, which is harming the image of AMSAT worldwide.
Many people might confuse "AMSAT-NA" with "AMSAT" worldwide respectively other national AMSAT organizations.

Therefore, I support the proposal from Zach to move the AMSAT-NA internal non-technical discussions to a separate "AMSAT-NA" forum.

Kind regards

Matthias

www.dd1us.de


On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 4:57 PM Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

>
> Hello all,
>
> I propose that a new list be created, separate from amsat-bb, for 
> discussion of administrative issues regarding AMSAT. This would 
> improve the SNR of amsat-bb for those of us who just want to play 
> radio and work satellites.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --- Zach
> N0ZGO
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available 
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. 
> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect 
> the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From wa4sca at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 11:40:15 2020
From: wa4sca at gmail.com (Alan)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 06:40:15 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Proposal for new list
In-Reply-To: <0b4e01d65802$d79b5af0$86d210d0$@gmail.com>
References: <67a0e381-b519-4ba8-6b88-f7570fda7023@pobox.com>	<737982444.296731.1594512222434@mail.yahoo.com>
	<0b4e01d65802$d79b5af0$86d210d0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001d65841$368bf9f0$a3a3edd0$@gmail.com>

I sympathize about concerns for discussion forums which become monopolized
by something which is profoundly uninteresting or even offensive. Going
offline until it dies down or moving to another venue are viable solutions,
and I have utilized both. However, in some cases that is a double edged
sword.

I used to be a member of an international social/hobby organization which
dwarfs AMSAT and even the ARRL in membership and finances. Paraphrasing and
compressing the situation somewhat, we had an initially very small but
focused group of "reformers" who wished to make changes to the organization
to modernize it, and to push "the old guard" out. There were many soothing
words, and the "reformers" became very adept at using the organizations own
rules in creative ways to further their cause. Many of the local chapters
explicitly or implicitly discouraged any discussions of the issues since
that always resulted in "conflict." It came to pass that the reformers
achieved their goals, and set about instituting their enlightened policies.
Despite all the honeyed words, nothing which was promised about new members
and projects came to pass. The organization currently still exists, but with
cratering membership and finances.

So how does that apply here? I encounter people I used to know there who are
wondering what happened, and how? "Why didn't somebody warn us?!" Some had
been the most adamant in keeping anything which would cause "conflict" out.
For me, a classic case of not being sure whether to laugh or cry. Of course
what can take a generation in a large organization can happen in the blink
of an eye in a small one. If you don't pay attention now, you may well be
wondering what happened sooner rather than later. A true cautionary tale
that sometimes what you do not wish to deal with is what you should give the
most attention. Choose wisely.

73,

Alan
WA4SCA



From jean.marc.momple at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 14:49:01 2020
From: jean.marc.momple at gmail.com (Jean Marc Momple)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 18:49:01 +0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Proposal for new list
In-Reply-To: <LEXPR01MB049322C02B524499682BE3F4DE630@LEXPR01MB0493.DEUPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.DE>
References: <67a0e381-b519-4ba8-6b88-f7570fda7023@pobox.com>
	<CAEWsTrOt71-0EVY-awQ=F8Gp=jwnnjCDKQr8S3DPu9-KigDaZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<LEXPR01MB049322C02B524499682BE3F4DE630@LEXPR01MB0493.DEUPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.DE>
Message-ID: <54EF6DBA-9A1C-466A-BA91-0B36506B73FD@gmail.com>

Zach,

I also support your proposal or suggest to the AMSAT-NA (I am a member) leaders to stop asap the politics on the BB which to my humble opinion is not an electoral platform were the mud should be thrown, but a platform for international exchange of ideas, sharing infos and friendship. I also agree with Matthias that all this is tarnishing our image worldwide thus reducing our chances for sponsorship and towards authorities such as regulators across the globe. The harm has already be made but let's try to mitigate the consequences by acting ?professionally? and try to correct things now.

The opponents have other means such as direct mail, the blogs, facebook etc? to make their point to AMSAT-NA members for the coming elections, my opinion is already made about all this dispute and I will vote accordingly.

73


Jean Marc (3B8DU)



> On Jul 12, 2020, at 1:21 PM, Matthias Bopp via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> My understanding is that the AMSAT-BB was meant to be an international forum for AMSAT members and people interested in it, not just for AMSAT-NA.
> 
> Presently it seems to me that it is dominantly an AMSAT-NA forum dealing with internal problems in a way, which is harming the image of AMSAT worldwide.
> Many people might confuse "AMSAT-NA" with "AMSAT" worldwide respectively other national AMSAT organizations.
> 
> Therefore, I support the proposal from Zach to move the AMSAT-NA internal non-technical discussions to a separate "AMSAT-NA" forum.
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Matthias
> 
> www.dd1us.de
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 4:57 PM Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> I propose that a new list be created, separate from amsat-bb, for 
>> discussion of administrative issues regarding AMSAT. This would 
>> improve the SNR of amsat-bb for those of us who just want to play 
>> radio and work satellites.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> --- Zach
>> N0ZGO
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available 
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. 
>> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect 
>> the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From n8fgv at usa.net  Sun Jul 12 03:32:04 2020
From: n8fgv at usa.net (Daniel Schultz)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 23:32:04 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Proposal for new list
Message-ID: <433ygLDfe8576Set.1594524724@web07.cms.usa.net>

> I propose that a new list be created, separate from amsat-bb, for
> discussion of administrative issues regarding AMSAT. This would improve
> the SNR of amsat-bb for those of us who just want to play radio and work
> satellites.
>
>There are various areas of interest for me, and mud-slinging is not one 
>of them. Building stuff is what I'm here for, and I'm heavily engaged in 
>that.


These satellites don't just build themselves. If you choose not to get
involved with YOUR organization, then don't post on amsat-bb someday wondering
why there are no more satellites available for you to "play radio" with. 

For some, this may be "just a hobby", for those who volunteer to serve AMSAT
with their personal time and effort, it is much more than "just a hobby". I
believe that every volunteer comes to AMSAT to serve the cause of keeping
amateur radio in space, but may see different ways to move the organization
forward toward that goal. 

There is a Board election coming up very soon. Like all elections, it behooves
you as a good citizen of AMSAT to be informed of the issues and make a wise
choice in voting for your elected representatives. As my high school civics
teacher (and probably yours) said, "if you don't vote, you don't have a right
to complain". 

73, Dan Schultz N8FGV


From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 15:16:07 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 08:16:07 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation ...
In-Reply-To: <000001d65757$8e1c7810$aa556830$@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6428.1594425753.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<86224682-DB1E-4C42-8BFF-D4834983FAC8@mac.com>
	<000001d65757$8e1c7810$aa556830$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2V9uqxTaa6x5361+WCMJ+SyKuzrLGy8xnWdZu_Omn+_Bw@mail.gmail.com>

The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.

Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally have
been made.

This failed.

Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what we did
along the way.

This worked.

Patrick and I are in the clear.

The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.

They claim the entire board knew about it.

There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when we
joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election can
solve.

Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.

Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before an
election, is simply the right thing to do.

I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were announced.

Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of unrepentantly
unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though. This
is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.

Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not have
to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and easily
resolved reasons.

Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending definitely is.

If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will vote to
return the same people to their jobs.

I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates that
will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward.
Robert, Howie, and Jeff.

We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big difference.

Michelle W5NYV



On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of
> improper
> behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with concern, but
> also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred in the
> 30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution, because
> the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a holiday
> week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical
> political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they believed
> the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have
> brought
> them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations were
> either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the most
> charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but egregious
> errors in judgement by the accusers.
>
> I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these unwarranted
> accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so grievously
> misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused AMSAT. It
> would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken trust
> with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum they
> should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they represent a
> vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified
> candidates to replace them without their baggage.
>
> Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board
> candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors, or
> been
> endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
>
> Alan Biddle
> WA4SCA
> Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From k.swaggart at charter.net  Sun Jul 12 15:25:03 2020
From: k.swaggart at charter.net (k.swaggart at charter.net)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 08:25:03 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Any 2.4 GHz satellite beacons over US?
Message-ID: <007201d65860$9e6c4a10$db44de30$@charter.net>

Looking at JE9PEL's SatsList at
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/hamradio/je9pel/satslist.htm  I see there are seven
satellites listed as active with at least one of their beacons near 2.4 GHz:


 

14781 UO-11 2401.5 (steady carrier)

43804 Suomi-100 2410.0 

43786 ITASAT-1 2400.15

43743 Reaktor Hello World 2410.0

43669 Tiayni-4 2409.0

43155 Tiayni-2 2403.0

42775 AALTO-1 2402.0

 

Are any of these routinely active over the western US?  And, any sat beacons
in the 10 GHz band?

 

73,

Ken, W7KKE 


From rich at ourowndomain.com  Sun Jul 12 16:14:23 2020
From: rich at ourowndomain.com (Rich Gopstein)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 12:14:23 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation ...
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2V9uqxTaa6x5361+WCMJ+SyKuzrLGy8xnWdZu_Omn+_Bw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6428.1594425753.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<86224682-DB1E-4C42-8BFF-D4834983FAC8@mac.com>
	<000001d65757$8e1c7810$aa556830$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2V9uqxTaa6x5361+WCMJ+SyKuzrLGy8xnWdZu_Omn+_Bw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANsNeaoQWF7NmQJM4BS4A-S7eJ7Wvx1wVP=uM2m+5bN0ymDBvQ@mail.gmail.com>

Could you clarify "unauthorized"?  Not disclosing the expenditure after the
fact is different from authorization.  Just trying to understand why the
expenditures were not authorized.  I took a look at the bylaws, and it's
clear that officers can be given latitude to make expenditures on behalf of
AMSAT without board approval for each expenditure (as you would expect - it
would be impractical for the board to have to approve every expenditure).

Rich
KD2CQ




On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:20 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.
>
> Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally have
> been made.
>
> This failed.
>
> Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what we did
> along the way.
>
> This worked.
>
> Patrick and I are in the clear.
>
> The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.
>
> They claim the entire board knew about it.
>
> There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when we
> joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election can
> solve.
>
> Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.
>
> Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before an
> election, is simply the right thing to do.
>
> I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were announced.
>
> Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of unrepentantly
> unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though. This
> is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.
>
> Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not have
> to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and easily
> resolved reasons.
>
> Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending definitely is.
>
> If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will vote to
> return the same people to their jobs.
>
> I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates that
> will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward.
> Robert, Howie, and Jeff.
>
> We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big difference.
>
> Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of
> > improper
> > behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with concern,
> but
> > also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred in
> the
> > 30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution,
> because
> > the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a
> holiday
> > week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical
> > political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they
> believed
> > the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have
> > brought
> > them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations were
> > either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the most
> > charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but egregious
> > errors in judgement by the accusers.
> >
> > I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these unwarranted
> > accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so
> grievously
> > misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused AMSAT.
> It
> > would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken trust
> > with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum they
> > should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they represent a
> > vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified
> > candidates to replace them without their baggage.
> >
> > Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board
> > candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors, or
> > been
> > endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
> >
> > Alan Biddle
> > WA4SCA
> > Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From almetco at comcast.net  Sun Jul 12 16:17:31 2020
From: almetco at comcast.net (Greg)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 12:17:31 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Proposal for new list
In-Reply-To: <433ygLDfe8576Set.1594524724@web07.cms.usa.net>
References: <433ygLDfe8576Set.1594524724@web07.cms.usa.net>
Message-ID: <1313E277-81ED-4877-A6F6-FA172C403628@comcast.net>

After several years absence from membership, I just  ?renewed? then about 4 weeks ago,  The directors on this board are very disappointing with their public fight.  Money was either wasted or not.  The members can choose at election time.  Like other members have noted, move on or take it to another board!

Greg
N3MVF





On Jul 11, 2020, at 11:32 PM, Daniel Schultz via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I propose that a new list be created, separate from amsat-bb, for
> discussion of administrative issues regarding AMSAT. This would improve
> the SNR of amsat-bb for those of us who just want to play radio and work
> satellites.
> 
> There are various areas of interest for me, and mud-slinging is not one 
> of them. Building stuff is what I'm here for, and I'm heavily engaged in 
> that.


These satellites don't just build themselves. If you choose not to get
involved with YOUR organization, then don't post on amsat-bb someday wondering
why there are no more satellites available for you to "play radio" with. 

For some, this may be "just a hobby", for those who volunteer to serve AMSAT
with their personal time and effort, it is much more than "just a hobby". I
believe that every volunteer comes to AMSAT to serve the cause of keeping
amateur radio in space, but may see different ways to move the organization
forward toward that goal. 

There is a Board election coming up very soon. Like all elections, it behooves
you as a good citizen of AMSAT to be informed of the issues and make a wise
choice in voting for your elected representatives. As my high school civics
teacher (and probably yours) said, "if you don't vote, you don't have a right
to complain". 

73, Dan Schultz N8FGV

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 17:25:59 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 10:25:59 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation ...
In-Reply-To: <CANsNeaoQWF7NmQJM4BS4A-S7eJ7Wvx1wVP=uM2m+5bN0ymDBvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6428.1594425753.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<86224682-DB1E-4C42-8BFF-D4834983FAC8@mac.com>
	<000001d65757$8e1c7810$aa556830$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2V9uqxTaa6x5361+WCMJ+SyKuzrLGy8xnWdZu_Omn+_Bw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeaoQWF7NmQJM4BS4A-S7eJ7Wvx1wVP=uM2m+5bN0ymDBvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2V_oa9pL5O__zbe07Rb-6x0bdwuS+iVSfpBWYhWH2rbKw@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, I can try. You are correct. There is, and definitely should be,
latitude for ordinary day to day budgeted expenditures.

An unauthorized expense is when  money was spent for something it was not
allocated for, or if the amount spent goes over a set amount.

Both cases occur here. There was a $4k overage to a consulting firm. The
first $10k was properly authorized. But, officers just kept spending past
the limit.

Hiring a law firm needs to be carefully documented, especially when
historically legal expenses are often zero.

Authorized and expected costs include things like trademark and regulatory
consulting and review.

Anything out of the ordinary, an unusual or unanticipated reason, or
something regarding liability, loss, and many personnel decisions, needs
authorization.

The authorization for FD Associates appears in AMSAT meeting minutes.

Hiring Hurwit does not appear in the minutes.

A variety of unusual and personally motivated expenses followed.

Targeting individual members (the denial of access, the NDA runaround, the
false claims of conflicts of interest were all advised by Hurwit) and then
attempting to move these expenses to "overhead", is an unauthorized and
improper use of member money.

Mentioning us by name in payments, and grossly mischaracterizing mild
complaints and requests for help as deserving of a nuclear response, is an
unethical use of money.

The board needed to go on the record about this contract, given the very
unusual nature of the expenses which did not fit into a budgeted or
recurring category, but they did not.

I understand you may discount my opinion.

That is why we hired a corporate governance specialist who reviewed
everything. She also wrote the demand letter that finally got me and
Patrick access to records in early February, four and a half months after
we were supposed to start our terms.

She reviewed the additional documents we now had access to and explained
that some expensss were unauthorized and improper.

We made our case to the board, looking to resolve this. They were silent
and completely uncooperative, until recently.

The change happened when we asked to see copies of all the Hurwit checks.

I campaigned for transparency. Without financial transparency,  many other
things simply don't work well.

I'm optimistic there can be meaningful improvement.

-Michelle W5NYV



On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 09:14 Rich Gopstein <rich at ourowndomain.com> wrote:

> Could you clarify "unauthorized"?  Not disclosing the expenditure after
> the fact is different from authorization.  Just trying to understand why
> the expenditures were not authorized.  I took a look at the bylaws, and
> it's clear that officers can be given latitude to make expenditures on
> behalf of AMSAT without board approval for each expenditure (as you would
> expect - it would be impractical for the board to have to approve every
> expenditure).
>
> Rich
> KD2CQ
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:20 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.
>>
>> Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally have
>> been made.
>>
>> This failed.
>>
>> Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what we
>> did
>> along the way.
>>
>> This worked.
>>
>> Patrick and I are in the clear.
>>
>> The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.
>>
>> They claim the entire board knew about it.
>>
>> There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when we
>> joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election can
>> solve.
>>
>> Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.
>>
>> Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before an
>> election, is simply the right thing to do.
>>
>> I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were announced.
>>
>> Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of unrepentantly
>> unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though.
>> This
>> is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.
>>
>> Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not have
>> to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and
>> easily
>> resolved reasons.
>>
>> Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending definitely
>> is.
>>
>> If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will vote
>> to
>> return the same people to their jobs.
>>
>> I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates that
>> will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward.
>> Robert, Howie, and Jeff.
>>
>> We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big difference.
>>
>> Michelle W5NYV
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>> > I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of
>> > improper
>> > behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with concern,
>> but
>> > also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred in
>> the
>> > 30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution,
>> because
>> > the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a
>> holiday
>> > week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical
>> > political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they
>> believed
>> > the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have
>> > brought
>> > them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations were
>> > either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the
>> most
>> > charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but egregious
>> > errors in judgement by the accusers.
>> >
>> > I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these unwarranted
>> > accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so
>> grievously
>> > misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused AMSAT.
>> It
>> > would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken trust
>> > with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum they
>> > should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they represent a
>> > vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified
>> > candidates to replace them without their baggage.
>> >
>> > Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board
>> > candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors, or
>> > been
>> > endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
>> >
>> > Alan Biddle
>> > WA4SCA
>> > Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions
>> > expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> > AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>

From rich at ourowndomain.com  Sun Jul 12 17:28:35 2020
From: rich at ourowndomain.com (Rich Gopstein)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 13:28:35 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Proposal for new list
In-Reply-To: <1313E277-81ED-4877-A6F6-FA172C403628@comcast.net>
References: <433ygLDfe8576Set.1594524724@web07.cms.usa.net>
	<1313E277-81ED-4877-A6F6-FA172C403628@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CANsNeapDrvE2kTU6hc3tyq-ezXV+eZuX_CK1SH6Fa4VKytUR9A@mail.gmail.com>

Understood, but I - as a member who also rejoined after a long absence -
would like to know how to vote.  Understanding who did what will help me
decide.

*This is not just an average vote* - if a group gets 4 votes on the board,
they essentially own AMSAT.  They can fire the president and all officers
and replace them with whoever they want.  WIth 5 votes, they can
unilaterally change the bylaws of the organization...

That is a lot of power...

Rich
KD2CQ


On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 12:23 PM Greg via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> After several years absence from membership, I just  ?renewed? then about
> 4 weeks ago,  The directors on this board are very disappointing with their
> public fight.  Money was either wasted or not.  The members can choose at
> election time.  Like other members have noted, move on or take it to
> another board!
>
> Greg
> N3MVF
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 11, 2020, at 11:32 PM, Daniel Schultz via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > I propose that a new list be created, separate from amsat-bb, for
> > discussion of administrative issues regarding AMSAT. This would improve
> > the SNR of amsat-bb for those of us who just want to play radio and work
> > satellites.
> >
> > There are various areas of interest for me, and mud-slinging is not one
> > of them. Building stuff is what I'm here for, and I'm heavily engaged in
> > that.
>
>
> These satellites don't just build themselves. If you choose not to get
> involved with YOUR organization, then don't post on amsat-bb someday
> wondering
> why there are no more satellites available for you to "play radio" with.
>
> For some, this may be "just a hobby", for those who volunteer to serve
> AMSAT
> with their personal time and effort, it is much more than "just a hobby". I
> believe that every volunteer comes to AMSAT to serve the cause of keeping
> amateur radio in space, but may see different ways to move the organization
> forward toward that goal.
>
> There is a Board election coming up very soon. Like all elections, it
> behooves
> you as a good citizen of AMSAT to be informed of the issues and make a wise
> choice in voting for your elected representatives. As my high school civics
> teacher (and probably yours) said, "if you don't vote, you don't have a
> right
> to complain".
>
> 73, Dan Schultz N8FGV
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net  Sun Jul 12 18:06:34 2020
From: amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net (Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK))
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 18:06:34 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2XZ+vv1O9-Ujx=TU5MRucLN=E9ZAo4Foo1xX5LRquUyzg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1186842614.210684.1594493829693.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1186842614.210684.1594493829693@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1442215093.239842.1594499675615@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CACvjz2XZ+vv1O9-Ujx=TU5MRucLN=E9ZAo4Foo1xX5LRquUyzg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN6TEUd_YThTK6ooFd4Y9PtFTWo+eabjjL4pYMvLzi1h6bXRHQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi.

I was disappointed to see that comment from AMSAT Treasurer Robert
Bankston KE4AL last night, incorrectly claiming that Michelle Thompson
W5NYV and I were "aforded the same rights and privileges as the ...
other elected and standing Directors." We did not have access to
certain AMSAT corporate records from the first day we assumed our seats
on the AMSAT Board of Directors in September 2019. Other directors and
senior officers were made aware of this at that time - including Robert
himself. Access to the archives of the private mailing list used by the
Board was also denied to other directors when we joined the Board, but
the other directors - along with some senior officers - already had
knowledge of what was contained in those archives. Michelle and I did
not have that knowledge, and had to fight for almost 5 months to get
that access.

The District of Columbia Nonprofit Corporation Act, the law governing
AMSAT due to its incorporation in Washington D.C., clearly gives
directors of a corporation access to corporate records. From section
29-413.05(a) of that act, "Inspection of records by directors":

"A director of a nonprofit corporation shall be entitled to inspect and
copy the books, records, and documents of the corporation at any
reasonable time to the extent reasonably related to the performance of
the director's duties as a director."

The law uses the word "shall", which makes this a mandatory requirement
on corporations like AMSAT. With so much in electronic form, it is
simple to receive the requested information via e-mail. For those
documents too large to send via e-mail, there are other means to
provide copies of requested records like using Dropbox or Google Drive.
The archives of the Board's mailing list are available in a secured
web page, and those archives were taken down just before we gained
access to that mailing list last September.

In terms of expenses and financial obligations, Article II Section 1 of
AMSAT bylaws has the following:

"No financial obligation shall be incurred by or on behalf of the
corporation except by prior approval of the Board; provided, however,
that the Board may, at its discretion, authorize any Officer or
Officers to incur such obligations and/or to approve such necessary or
incidental obligations as may be incurred by officials acting under
such Officers' authority, subject to limits and procedures as the Board
shall determine."

https://www.amsat.org/bylaws-of-the-radio-amateur-satellite-corporation/

There is record of one instance where the Board gave prior approval to
a legal expense in the past few years, a motion during the November
2018 Board meeting in Huntsville, Alabama. This motion, passed in an
executive session, authorized officers to engage FD Associates for
a review of AMSAT's draft EAR/ITAR policy. That motion carried an
authorization of up to $10,000.00 for that review. I have not seen any
other records showing where the Board gave prior approval for legal
expenses in recent years, in line with the bylaws. Minutes of Board
meetings in recent years are available at:

https://www.amsat.org/minutes-of-the-board-of-directors/

In fulfilling my fiduciary obligations to AMSAT and its members as a
duly elected director, I asked for details on the legal expenses I saw
on AMSAT's 2018 IRS Form 990 tax return and subsequent reports, which
Robert Bankston provided via e-mail or during Board meetings conducted
via conference call. Some were for the engagement with FD Associates.
Others were for a law firm called Hurwit & Associates - a name that
does not appear in the minutes of recent AMSAT Board meetings.

Joe Spier K6WAO, AMSAT President at the time of a phone call in October
2019 that also included the Hurwit & Associates lawyer retained by
AMSAT, mentioned that he had a plan for a conflict-of-interest policy.
His proposed policy would have denied Michelle and me access to AMSAT
corporate records for anything that occurred before we joined the
AMSAT Board. There was no mention of anything else related to this
proposed policy, like Michelle's work with Open Research Institute.
Just the attempt to deny us access to older AMSAT corporate records.
This proposed policy would have been a violation of the District of
Columbia law - something I pointed out on that phone call, and later in
e-mails to AMSAT directors and senior officers. This led to the demand
letter Michelle and I sent AMSAT in late January 2020, quickly
followed by Joe Spier's resignation as AMSAT President. Seeing that
AMSAT spent over ten thousand dollars in late 2019 and into 2020 on
legal expenses around this effort to deny us access to corporate
records was disgusting.

Unable to get any other details on the Hurwit & Associates engagements,
I asked in early May for copies of the cancelled checks - or copies of
documentation showing the payments, if checks were not used - to pay
these expenses. This led to AMSAT Executive Vice President Paul
Stoetzer N8HM claiming that there was "full knowledge and consent of
the Board" for these expenses. As a director since September 2019, I
had no knowledge of these expenses until I started asking for the
details on the payments made for these expenses. No director or
officer took the time to explain these expenses, other than the brief
explanations recorded for some of the payments in AMSAT's accounting
system - until I asked to see copies of the cancelled checks.

Clayton's letter on Friday carries on with a theme that these legal
expenses were incurred with "full knowledge and consent of the Board".
When we joined the Board last September, we were not made aware of the
engagements with Hurwit & Associates. Those were not documented in the
minutes of past Board meetings or any other record we could see.
Without knowledge of these expenses, I didn't have any opportunity to
consent to them - not that I would have given consent. Simply having a
letter with many co-signers outlining the spending after the fact is
not, in my opinion, showing prior approval for those expenses in
accordance with AMSAT bylaws.

Does AMSAT have the right to seek legal advice? Yes. In fact, this was
done on the record during a Board meeting in November 2018, when AMSAT
engaged FD Associates. AMSAT authorized a maximum outlay of $10,000.00
in the motion that was passed in an executive session at that meeting.
AMSAT exceeded that $10,000.00 mark in August 2019, and ended up
spending a total of $16,245.00 in its engagement with FD Associates.
Senior officers did not return to the Board for authorization to
continue the work with FD Associates, once the expenses exceeded
$10,000.00. Michelle took the initiative to contact FD Associates to
see what was being done for AMSAT after Joe Spier's resignation, and
was able to stop those expenses from continuing to accumulate.

Michelle's initiative to contact FD Associates - a firm she had dealt
with in the past - was greeted with criticism from some senior
officers. The officers questioned why a director was getting involved
in that matter. Clayton did rise to her defense, pointing out that none
of the senior officers picked up this work after Joe Spier's
resignation in late January. Clayton encouraged her to continue that
work. I feel she was doing her part to ensure AMSAT would not incur
more expenses, until such time as AMSAT was ready to reengage with FD
Associates. If AMSAT needs to reengage with FD Associates, senior
officers need to ask the Board to either amend the 2018 motion to allow
for further expenses, or ask the Board approve a new motion to continue
that work and incur the additional expenses.

Michelle and I ran for our seats on the Board wanting to make AMSAT
more transparent. The actions Clayton outlined in his letter, in my
opinion, are far from showing transparency. I feel his letter was a
justification for why AMSAT directors and senior officers kept these
expenses from being on the record, where members could have seen them
and questioned them. We are approaching another opportunity for AMSAT
members to make their voices heard, with the upcoming Board election.
Michelle and I heard the membership loudly and clearly last year, from
the votes we received. Please do not reelect the two incumbent
directors, and please do not return a former director to the Board. I
urge you to vote for the 3 challengers in the upcoming election - Howie
DeFelice AB2S, Jeff Johns WE4B, and Bob McGwier N4HY.

Thank you, and 73.




Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 18:18:06 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 14:18:06 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Foolishness
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2XuYCvWsoEqjUETnMO1sUxtduv-khM2a=yEQb6at_2M+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <041101d65777$43435820$c9ca0860$.ref@bellsouth.net>
	<041101d65777$43435820$c9ca0860$@bellsouth.net>
	<CA+qbou5cvEkupTR1fxsDw36zHYL-KNhigDhGTNf3+++HqQF8MA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeao5gxUZuCBmoDnXGYTzYpj5_tQMNmsE30So5psM0XJ=AQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2WN1vq0h3wOTLgCA0WUQ3fMj6MvXfJuYhzZ8s81PEOKEA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeapVeXZe6MuVu6FfYxs9SkL++byqyHe7ocSaCbKrUwiwkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XuYCvWsoEqjUETnMO1sUxtduv-khM2a=yEQb6at_2M+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c9wyT-BJD69ke_2Tam0022E27ALLGL8p7dbohe_9XWKHA@mail.gmail.com>

Serve whose members?

On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 1:20 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> The only agenda is to serve the members.
>
> I want to work with people that provide basic corporate oversight, support
> the ITAR/EAR public domain carve outs, and see the value in microwave
> broadband digital payload work.
>
> That won't happen with the incumbents.
>
> They can't even be bothered to hold meetings.
>
> Therefore, I and others have spoken up.
>
> Please send us a team that can get ambitious things done.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 14:25 Rich Gopstein <rich at ourowndomain.com> wrote:
>
> > Thanks Michelle.  I did not intend to imply that people associated with
> > ORI shouldn't be on the AMSAT board.  I'm trying to understand if there's
> > an agenda behind a multi-year attempt at getting a majority on the AMSAT
> > board - including very public accusations against the existing board and
> > leadership.
> >
> > I think that would help people make up their mind about how to vote.
> >
> > Rich
> > KD2CQ
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 2:23 PM Michelle Thompson <
> > mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I can speak to this. Thank you for the opportunity.
> >>
> >> It's the other way around. ORI provides all engineering to the general
> >> public, free of charge.
> >>
> >> We've pledged our successful fundraising to directly benefit AMSAT in
> >> every way we know how. We've done significant legal and regulatory work to
> >> reduce ITAR/EAR burden, produced a wide variety of software and firmware,
> >> and now have the funds to prototype the hardware required for microwave
> >> broadband communications payloads.
> >>
> >> We've published open source implementations of the best forward error
> >> correction codes that exist. We just bought a full Vivado floating license
> >> that anyone in the community can use.
> >>
> >> The board and associate members (we have no paid members, so we don't
> >> even compete there) have been completely transparent about the intent and
> >> purpose of the engineering done by ORI.
> >>
> >> ORI is a Member Society of AMSAT.
> >>
> >> It's odd how ORI is portrayed here, yet Directors current and previous
> >> that have dual roles - such as working for NASA, working at Universities
> >> with commercial satellite projects, and working for commercial satellite
> >> companies - simply never get any criticism for using AMSAT to help their
> >> career or projects. In many cases, AMSAT has been used to further outside
> >> or commercial careers. Many of these people are unquestionably celebrated.
> >>
> >> When someone (like myself) that starts a successful 501(c)(3) that works
> >> in the opposite direction - freely giving to the organization and
> >> supporting it whenever possible - one would hope it would be perceived as a
> >> positive.
> >>
> >> All of this engineering and fundraising was the exact sort of thing I was
> >> doing within AMSAT engineering. When Joe Spier shut down the entire
> >> project, the dozens of people on the team asked if we could keep going.
> >> Bruce Perens was instrumental here in helping set up a 501(c)(3) that could
> >> operate as a research institute. And the rest is documented on our website.
> >>
> >> While people like me shouldn't have to set up an entirely independent
> >> formal structure to volunteer for the AMSAT community, it has turned out to
> >> be fun, successful, and quite complementary to AMSAT's aims and purposes.
> >>
> >> ORI is not a membership organization. It's not in competition for
> >> members. We sign up AMSAT members at every event we hold. We promote AMSAT
> >> publicly.
> >>
> >> If the leadership of AMSAT really wants to view organizations like ORI as
> >> some sort of threat or crisis, then they are deliberately choosing to be
> >> anti-collaborative.
> >>
> >> If you have to have Directors that don't have any other interests outside
> >> AMSAT, then you will end up with people that don't bring things like a
> >> strong network, experiences, or other organizational assets to the job.
> >>
> >> Should Tom Clark have been thrown off the AMSAT board because he was also
> >> on the Virginia Tech Space Advisory Board? Should Brennan Price not be
> >> Secretary because he works for Inmarsat?
> >>
> >> The opposite is also true. Ordinary people with ordinary common sense
> >> should also be in leadership. Diversity on the board can only improve it.
> >>
> >> -Michelle W5NYV
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 1:43 PM Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB <
> >> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I'm guessing it's more complex than that.  I suspect this is really about
> >>> ORI and trying to get AMSAT to outsource their satellite engineering to
> >>> ORI.  MIchelle Thompson is the CEO of ORI...
> >>>
> >>> https://openresearch.institute/board-of-directors/
> >>>
> >>> Rich, KD2CQ
> >>> AMSAT life member
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 8:34 AM John Spasojevich via AMSAT-BB <
> >>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > All reads to me like a couple people broke into the old boys club and
> >>> > weren?t welcomed to the playground. AMSAT has been run by the same
> >>> people
> >>> > for years and years and years. Then again not many run for office so
> >>> our
> >>> > choices are limited.
> >>> >
> >>> > John AG9D
> >>> >
> >>> > On Saturday, July 11, 2020, Nick Pugh via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org
> >>> >
> >>> > wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > > This is a hobby
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Spending money on lawyer instead of satellite is dumb
> >>> > >
> >>> > > My hope is you get on a Zoom call and put the fire out and take us
> >>> to HEO
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Nickk k5qxj
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Cell      337 258 2527
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Helping UL become a world Class Engineering  and Educational School
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Disagree I Learn
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > _______________________________________________
> >>> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> >>> available
> >>> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >>> > Opinions
> >>> > > expressed
> >>> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> >>> views of
> >>> > > AMSAT-NA.
> >>> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >>> > program!
> >>> > > Subscription settings:
> >>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>> > >
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >>> Opinions
> >>> > expressed
> >>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> >>> of
> >>> > AMSAT-NA.
> >>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >>> program!
> >>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>> >
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >>> Opinions expressed
> >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> >>> AMSAT-NA.
> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >>> program!
> >>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>>
> >>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From tcarchcape at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 12 18:40:24 2020
From: tcarchcape at yahoo.com (Tim Crawford)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 18:40:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] PO-101 access?
References: <1228348436.334057.1594579224119.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1228348436.334057.1594579224119@mail.yahoo.com>


Diwata2PH at Diwata2PH?13h[SPECIAL SCHEDULE]PO-101 is active today and tomorrow from 4:55 UTC - 14:00 UTC and 16:00 UTC - 3:30 UTC to provide emergency access during this Covid-19 pandemic.I hope everyone is safe!73 de DW4TA
I am unable to fully under stand what they mean by provide emergency access?
Does this mean that the communications on this satellite are restricted?
Thanks
TimKE7TAC

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 12 18:43:12 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (GEO Badger)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 18:43:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)
In-Reply-To: <CAN6TEUd_YThTK6ooFd4Y9PtFTWo+eabjjL4pYMvLzi1h6bXRHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1186842614.210684.1594493829693.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1186842614.210684.1594493829693@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1442215093.239842.1594499675615@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CACvjz2XZ+vv1O9-Ujx=TU5MRucLN=E9ZAo4Foo1xX5LRquUyzg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN6TEUd_YThTK6ooFd4Y9PtFTWo+eabjjL4pYMvLzi1h6bXRHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1600328320.483550.1594579392984@mail.yahoo.com>

 Thank you Patrick, you saved me a long email to write. Many many do not understand what a non-profit is or how it is to operate. A 501 (c) (3) has a very specific set of rules to operate by in order to maintain its incorporation. They are listed in the organization's bylaws, which are to be a public document. All those points you mentioned are correct.. Additionally, the General Membership, GM, may normally attend BOD meets but have no voting rights. There are to be minutes taken at each BOD meeting that may be requested by the GM.
Another very important point I would like to point out is that the BOD are personally responsible for any financial liabilities incurred by the organization they serve.
---??
Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side??
73 de W3AB/GEO ????

http://www.w3ab.org

You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out".

From rich at ourowndomain.com  Sun Jul 12 18:51:23 2020
From: rich at ourowndomain.com (Rich Gopstein)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 14:51:23 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation ...
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2V_oa9pL5O__zbe07Rb-6x0bdwuS+iVSfpBWYhWH2rbKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6428.1594425753.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<86224682-DB1E-4C42-8BFF-D4834983FAC8@mac.com>
	<000001d65757$8e1c7810$aa556830$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2V9uqxTaa6x5361+WCMJ+SyKuzrLGy8xnWdZu_Omn+_Bw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeaoQWF7NmQJM4BS4A-S7eJ7Wvx1wVP=uM2m+5bN0ymDBvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2V_oa9pL5O__zbe07Rb-6x0bdwuS+iVSfpBWYhWH2rbKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANsNeao+OkYEoieZMDAaBzdqkrKiVby2eAqLFv1oyUxsV4ehGQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks.  I think we're getting closer :)

It sounds like the "unauthorized expenses" were incurred before you and
Patrick were on the board.  And the belief that they were unauthorized is
based solely on reading the AMSAT board meeting minutes?  So if those
expenses were authorized through some day-to-day operational procedure,
then they wouldn't have shown up in the board meeting minutes?

Note - I'm not defending the actions, just trying to understand if they
were outside of the bylaws.  So far, there isn't any direct evidence that
they were - unless I'm misunderstanding something.

Rich
KD2CQ



On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 1:26 PM Michelle Thompson <
mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, I can try. You are correct. There is, and definitely should be,
> latitude for ordinary day to day budgeted expenditures.
>
> An unauthorized expense is when  money was spent for something it was not
> allocated for, or if the amount spent goes over a set amount.
>
> Both cases occur here. There was a $4k overage to a consulting firm. The
> first $10k was properly authorized. But, officers just kept spending past
> the limit.
>
> Hiring a law firm needs to be carefully documented, especially when
> historically legal expenses are often zero.
>
> Authorized and expected costs include things like trademark and regulatory
> consulting and review.
>
> Anything out of the ordinary, an unusual or unanticipated reason, or
> something regarding liability, loss, and many personnel decisions, needs
> authorization.
>
> The authorization for FD Associates appears in AMSAT meeting minutes.
>
> Hiring Hurwit does not appear in the minutes.
>
> A variety of unusual and personally motivated expenses followed.
>
> Targeting individual members (the denial of access, the NDA runaround, the
> false claims of conflicts of interest were all advised by Hurwit) and then
> attempting to move these expenses to "overhead", is an unauthorized and
> improper use of member money.
>
> Mentioning us by name in payments, and grossly mischaracterizing mild
> complaints and requests for help as deserving of a nuclear response, is an
> unethical use of money.
>
> The board needed to go on the record about this contract, given the very
> unusual nature of the expenses which did not fit into a budgeted or
> recurring category, but they did not.
>
> I understand you may discount my opinion.
>
> That is why we hired a corporate governance specialist who reviewed
> everything. She also wrote the demand letter that finally got me and
> Patrick access to records in early February, four and a half months after
> we were supposed to start our terms.
>
> She reviewed the additional documents we now had access to and explained
> that some expensss were unauthorized and improper.
>
> We made our case to the board, looking to resolve this. They were silent
> and completely uncooperative, until recently.
>
> The change happened when we asked to see copies of all the Hurwit checks.
>
> I campaigned for transparency. Without financial transparency,  many other
> things simply don't work well.
>
> I'm optimistic there can be meaningful improvement.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 09:14 Rich Gopstein <rich at ourowndomain.com> wrote:
>
>> Could you clarify "unauthorized"?  Not disclosing the expenditure after
>> the fact is different from authorization.  Just trying to understand why
>> the expenditures were not authorized.  I took a look at the bylaws, and
>> it's clear that officers can be given latitude to make expenditures on
>> behalf of AMSAT without board approval for each expenditure (as you would
>> expect - it would be impractical for the board to have to approve every
>> expenditure).
>>
>> Rich
>> KD2CQ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:20 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>>> The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.
>>>
>>> Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally have
>>> been made.
>>>
>>> This failed.
>>>
>>> Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what we
>>> did
>>> along the way.
>>>
>>> This worked.
>>>
>>> Patrick and I are in the clear.
>>>
>>> The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.
>>>
>>> They claim the entire board knew about it.
>>>
>>> There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when we
>>> joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election can
>>> solve.
>>>
>>> Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.
>>>
>>> Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before an
>>> election, is simply the right thing to do.
>>>
>>> I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were announced.
>>>
>>> Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of unrepentantly
>>> unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though.
>>> This
>>> is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.
>>>
>>> Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not have
>>> to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and
>>> easily
>>> resolved reasons.
>>>
>>> Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending definitely
>>> is.
>>>
>>> If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will vote
>>> to
>>> return the same people to their jobs.
>>>
>>> I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates
>>> that
>>> will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward.
>>> Robert, Howie, and Jeff.
>>>
>>> We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big difference.
>>>
>>> Michelle W5NYV
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of
>>> > improper
>>> > behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with
>>> concern, but
>>> > also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred
>>> in the
>>> > 30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution,
>>> because
>>> > the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a
>>> holiday
>>> > week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical
>>> > political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they
>>> believed
>>> > the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have
>>> > brought
>>> > them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations were
>>> > either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the
>>> most
>>> > charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but egregious
>>> > errors in judgement by the accusers.
>>> >
>>> > I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these
>>> unwarranted
>>> > accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so
>>> grievously
>>> > misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused
>>> AMSAT. It
>>> > would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken
>>> trust
>>> > with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum they
>>> > should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they represent a
>>> > vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified
>>> > candidates to replace them without their baggage.
>>> >
>>> > Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board
>>> > candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors, or
>>> > been
>>> > endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
>>> >
>>> > Alan Biddle
>>> > WA4SCA
>>> > Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions
>>> > expressed
>>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>> of
>>> > AMSAT-NA.
>>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>

From dave at druidnetworks.com  Sun Jul 12 19:03:56 2020
From: dave at druidnetworks.com (David Swanson)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 14:03:56 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation ...
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2V_oa9pL5O__zbe07Rb-6x0bdwuS+iVSfpBWYhWH2rbKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6428.1594425753.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<86224682-DB1E-4C42-8BFF-D4834983FAC8@mac.com>
	<000001d65757$8e1c7810$aa556830$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2V9uqxTaa6x5361+WCMJ+SyKuzrLGy8xnWdZu_Omn+_Bw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeaoQWF7NmQJM4BS4A-S7eJ7Wvx1wVP=uM2m+5bN0ymDBvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2V_oa9pL5O__zbe07Rb-6x0bdwuS+iVSfpBWYhWH2rbKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANq+eyX6NY4yB+JaJ3XzK5-oxcRXh+11BYs_cmQo_MNFA5jW1A@mail.gmail.com>

Director Thompson,

You and Director Stoddard harassed and intimidated members of the board
pre-2019 election. Fact.
The pre-2019 Election board hired attorneys to deal with your intimidation
and harassment. Fact.
Every member of the pre-2019 Election board signed a letter, stating they
were aware of the legal expenses. Fact.
After you and Director Stoddard were elected to the board in 2019 you
continued to harass and intimidate officers and board members of AMSAT.
Fact.

No matter what type of spin you put on this, no matter how many times you
repeat your lies, you and director Stoddard are in the wrong here, and
should resign immediately.

Members of AMSAT that are reading this and wanting to know what they can
do, it's simple. Do not vote for the candidates endorsed by Director
Thompson and Director Stoddard in 2020. Call on Director Thompson and
Director Stoddard publicly to resign. If they do not resign, do not return
them to the board in 2021. With these simple steps AMSAT can return
spending your membership dollars on keeping amateur radio in space, instead
of defending against disgruntled former volunteers with bones to pick.

-Dave, KG5CCI

On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 12:30 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Yes, I can try. You are correct. There is, and definitely should be,
> latitude for ordinary day to day budgeted expenditures.
>
> An unauthorized expense is when  money was spent for something it was not
> allocated for, or if the amount spent goes over a set amount.
>
> Both cases occur here. There was a $4k overage to a consulting firm. The
> first $10k was properly authorized. But, officers just kept spending past
> the limit.
>
> Hiring a law firm needs to be carefully documented, especially when
> historically legal expenses are often zero.
>
> Authorized and expected costs include things like trademark and regulatory
> consulting and review.
>
> Anything out of the ordinary, an unusual or unanticipated reason, or
> something regarding liability, loss, and many personnel decisions, needs
> authorization.
>
> The authorization for FD Associates appears in AMSAT meeting minutes.
>
> Hiring Hurwit does not appear in the minutes.
>
> A variety of unusual and personally motivated expenses followed.
>
> Targeting individual members (the denial of access, the NDA runaround, the
> false claims of conflicts of interest were all advised by Hurwit) and then
> attempting to move these expenses to "overhead", is an unauthorized and
> improper use of member money.
>
> Mentioning us by name in payments, and grossly mischaracterizing mild
> complaints and requests for help as deserving of a nuclear response, is an
> unethical use of money.
>
> The board needed to go on the record about this contract, given the very
> unusual nature of the expenses which did not fit into a budgeted or
> recurring category, but they did not.
>
> I understand you may discount my opinion.
>
> That is why we hired a corporate governance specialist who reviewed
> everything. She also wrote the demand letter that finally got me and
> Patrick access to records in early February, four and a half months after
> we were supposed to start our terms.
>
> She reviewed the additional documents we now had access to and explained
> that some expensss were unauthorized and improper.
>
> We made our case to the board, looking to resolve this. They were silent
> and completely uncooperative, until recently.
>
> The change happened when we asked to see copies of all the Hurwit checks.
>
> I campaigned for transparency. Without financial transparency,  many other
> things simply don't work well.
>
> I'm optimistic there can be meaningful improvement.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 09:14 Rich Gopstein <rich at ourowndomain.com> wrote:
>
> > Could you clarify "unauthorized"?  Not disclosing the expenditure after
> > the fact is different from authorization.  Just trying to understand why
> > the expenditures were not authorized.  I took a look at the bylaws, and
> > it's clear that officers can be given latitude to make expenditures on
> > behalf of AMSAT without board approval for each expenditure (as you would
> > expect - it would be impractical for the board to have to approve every
> > expenditure).
> >
> > Rich
> > KD2CQ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:20 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> >> The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.
> >>
> >> Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally
> have
> >> been made.
> >>
> >> This failed.
> >>
> >> Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what we
> >> did
> >> along the way.
> >>
> >> This worked.
> >>
> >> Patrick and I are in the clear.
> >>
> >> The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.
> >>
> >> They claim the entire board knew about it.
> >>
> >> There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when
> we
> >> joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election
> can
> >> solve.
> >>
> >> Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.
> >>
> >> Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before
> an
> >> election, is simply the right thing to do.
> >>
> >> I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were announced.
> >>
> >> Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of unrepentantly
> >> unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though.
> >> This
> >> is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.
> >>
> >> Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not
> have
> >> to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and
> >> easily
> >> resolved reasons.
> >>
> >> Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending definitely
> >> is.
> >>
> >> If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will vote
> >> to
> >> return the same people to their jobs.
> >>
> >> I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates
> that
> >> will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward.
> >> Robert, Howie, and Jeff.
> >>
> >> We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big difference.
> >>
> >> Michelle W5NYV
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of
> >> > improper
> >> > behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with
> concern,
> >> but
> >> > also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred
> in
> >> the
> >> > 30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution,
> >> because
> >> > the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a
> >> holiday
> >> > week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical
> >> > political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they
> >> believed
> >> > the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have
> >> > brought
> >> > them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations
> were
> >> > either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the
> >> most
> >> > charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but
> egregious
> >> > errors in judgement by the accusers.
> >> >
> >> > I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these
> unwarranted
> >> > accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so
> >> grievously
> >> > misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused
> AMSAT.
> >> It
> >> > would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken
> trust
> >> > with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum they
> >> > should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they represent
> a
> >> > vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified
> >> > candidates to replace them without their baggage.
> >> >
> >> > Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board
> >> > candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors,
> or
> >> > been
> >> > endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
> >> >
> >> > Alan Biddle
> >> > WA4SCA
> >> > Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions
> >> > expressed
> >> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> >> > AMSAT-NA.
> >> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >> program!
> >> > Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> >> AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From jim at k6ccc.org  Sun Jul 12 19:31:33 2020
From: jim at k6ccc.org (Jim Walls)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 12:31:33 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] FoxDelta ST2-0417 USB setup help
In-Reply-To: <e40a1642-486b-c70c-ee29-19850aecc03d@k6ccc.org>
References: <e40a1642-486b-c70c-ee29-19850aecc03d@k6ccc.org>
Message-ID: <2715fda5-ec7a-39f4-8924-69925e8e540a@k6ccc.org>

A little follow up report.

Several people responded either direct to me or via the AMSAT-BB. Thank 
you to each of you.? Between all the various responses I was eventually 
able to both Nova for Windows and SatPC32 to be able to read the antenna 
positions and control the rotors.? I have a very strong preference of 
using Nova over SatPC32 so very happy I was able to get that working.? I 
have enjoyed watching the antennas follow several passes of various 
satellites over the past day or so.? Now I need to get new feedlines to 
the antennas, and fix the radio.? One step at a time, but I'm getting there.

Jim
K6CCC


On 07/08/2020 19:20, Jim Walls via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> I recently bought a FoxDelta ST2-0417 USB rotor interface for my Yaesu 
> G-5500 rotor.? I have the ST-2 communicating with the rotor just 
> fine.? I can see the azimuth and elevation readout and using the ST2 
> pushbuttons, I can control both just fine. ? However, I can't get it 
> to communicate properly with my computer.? I am running a Dell desktop 
> under Windows 10 and have installed the CH360G driver.? The ST2 shows 
> as COM8 according the the device manager.? If I unplug the USB cable, 
> the Device Manager confirms that COM8 goes away and when I plug the 
> cable back in, COM8 returns.? I initially was trying to use Nova for 
> Windows (which I have used for 20+ years).? I tried every software 
> interface setting (using COM8) and the best I could get a couple weeks 
> ago was Azimuth display and control (no elevation display, but it 
> appeared that it tried to control elevation), but can't manage to 
> replicate that today. Everything shows either 0.0 / 0.0 or ---- / ---- 
> for the rotor pointing in Nova.
> Somewhat out of desperation, I downloaded SatPC32 and can't even get 
> that far.? As far as I can tell, every rotor type is expecting a 
> parallel port interface.? Keep in mind that I have never seen SatPC32 
> until an hour ago, so that may be my issue.
>
> My preference would be to use Nova for Windows, but if that can't be 
> made to work, I CAN switch over to SatPC32.? In either case, the 
> software will be used exclusively for rotor control and not doppler 
> correction (not using a radio that supports that).
>
>
> Do you have any suggestions?
>


-- 
73
-------------------------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
jim at k6ccc.org
Ofc:  818-548-4804
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395


From wa7fwf at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 19:45:12 2020
From: wa7fwf at gmail.com (Kevin)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 12:45:12 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation ...
In-Reply-To: <CANq+eyX6NY4yB+JaJ3XzK5-oxcRXh+11BYs_cmQo_MNFA5jW1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6428.1594425753.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<86224682-DB1E-4C42-8BFF-D4834983FAC8@mac.com>
	<000001d65757$8e1c7810$aa556830$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2V9uqxTaa6x5361+WCMJ+SyKuzrLGy8xnWdZu_Omn+_Bw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeaoQWF7NmQJM4BS4A-S7eJ7Wvx1wVP=uM2m+5bN0ymDBvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2V_oa9pL5O__zbe07Rb-6x0bdwuS+iVSfpBWYhWH2rbKw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyX6NY4yB+JaJ3XzK5-oxcRXh+11BYs_cmQo_MNFA5jW1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <02cd1fa4-e037-e244-ad8a-a94a4e28d200@gmail.com>

Dave,
 ?? I agree with you 100%, and also call for both to resign.

Kevin WA7FWF #19623

On 7/12/2020 12:03 PM, David Swanson via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Director Thompson,
>
> You and Director Stoddard harassed and intimidated members of the board
> pre-2019 election. Fact.
> The pre-2019 Election board hired attorneys to deal with your intimidation
> and harassment. Fact.
> Every member of the pre-2019 Election board signed a letter, stating they
> were aware of the legal expenses. Fact.
> After you and Director Stoddard were elected to the board in 2019 you
> continued to harass and intimidate officers and board members of AMSAT.
> Fact.
>
> No matter what type of spin you put on this, no matter how many times you
> repeat your lies, you and director Stoddard are in the wrong here, and
> should resign immediately.
>
> Members of AMSAT that are reading this and wanting to know what they can
> do, it's simple. Do not vote for the candidates endorsed by Director
> Thompson and Director Stoddard in 2020. Call on Director Thompson and
> Director Stoddard publicly to resign. If they do not resign, do not return
> them to the board in 2021. With these simple steps AMSAT can return
> spending your membership dollars on keeping amateur radio in space, instead
> of defending against disgruntled former volunteers with bones to pick.
>
> -Dave, KG5CCI
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 12:30 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> Yes, I can try. You are correct. There is, and definitely should be,
>> latitude for ordinary day to day budgeted expenditures.
>>
>> An unauthorized expense is when  money was spent for something it was not
>> allocated for, or if the amount spent goes over a set amount.
>>
>> Both cases occur here. There was a $4k overage to a consulting firm. The
>> first $10k was properly authorized. But, officers just kept spending past
>> the limit.
>>
>> Hiring a law firm needs to be carefully documented, especially when
>> historically legal expenses are often zero.
>>
>> Authorized and expected costs include things like trademark and regulatory
>> consulting and review.
>>
>> Anything out of the ordinary, an unusual or unanticipated reason, or
>> something regarding liability, loss, and many personnel decisions, needs
>> authorization.
>>
>> The authorization for FD Associates appears in AMSAT meeting minutes.
>>
>> Hiring Hurwit does not appear in the minutes.
>>
>> A variety of unusual and personally motivated expenses followed.
>>
>> Targeting individual members (the denial of access, the NDA runaround, the
>> false claims of conflicts of interest were all advised by Hurwit) and then
>> attempting to move these expenses to "overhead", is an unauthorized and
>> improper use of member money.
>>
>> Mentioning us by name in payments, and grossly mischaracterizing mild
>> complaints and requests for help as deserving of a nuclear response, is an
>> unethical use of money.
>>
>> The board needed to go on the record about this contract, given the very
>> unusual nature of the expenses which did not fit into a budgeted or
>> recurring category, but they did not.
>>
>> I understand you may discount my opinion.
>>
>> That is why we hired a corporate governance specialist who reviewed
>> everything. She also wrote the demand letter that finally got me and
>> Patrick access to records in early February, four and a half months after
>> we were supposed to start our terms.
>>
>> She reviewed the additional documents we now had access to and explained
>> that some expensss were unauthorized and improper.
>>
>> We made our case to the board, looking to resolve this. They were silent
>> and completely uncooperative, until recently.
>>
>> The change happened when we asked to see copies of all the Hurwit checks.
>>
>> I campaigned for transparency. Without financial transparency,  many other
>> things simply don't work well.
>>
>> I'm optimistic there can be meaningful improvement.
>>
>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 09:14 Rich Gopstein <rich at ourowndomain.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Could you clarify "unauthorized"?  Not disclosing the expenditure after
>>> the fact is different from authorization.  Just trying to understand why
>>> the expenditures were not authorized.  I took a look at the bylaws, and
>>> it's clear that officers can be given latitude to make expenditures on
>>> behalf of AMSAT without board approval for each expenditure (as you would
>>> expect - it would be impractical for the board to have to approve every
>>> expenditure).
>>>
>>> Rich
>>> KD2CQ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:20 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.
>>>>
>>>> Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally
>> have
>>>> been made.
>>>>
>>>> This failed.
>>>>
>>>> Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what we
>>>> did
>>>> along the way.
>>>>
>>>> This worked.
>>>>
>>>> Patrick and I are in the clear.
>>>>
>>>> The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.
>>>>
>>>> They claim the entire board knew about it.
>>>>
>>>> There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when
>> we
>>>> joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election
>> can
>>>> solve.
>>>>
>>>> Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.
>>>>
>>>> Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before
>> an
>>>> election, is simply the right thing to do.
>>>>
>>>> I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were announced.
>>>>
>>>> Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of unrepentantly
>>>> unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though.
>>>> This
>>>> is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.
>>>>
>>>> Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not
>> have
>>>> to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and
>>>> easily
>>>> resolved reasons.
>>>>
>>>> Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending definitely
>>>> is.
>>>>
>>>> If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will vote
>>>> to
>>>> return the same people to their jobs.
>>>>
>>>> I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates
>> that
>>>> will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward.
>>>> Robert, Howie, and Jeff.
>>>>
>>>> We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big difference.
>>>>
>>>> Michelle W5NYV
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> wrote:
>>>>> I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of
>>>>> improper
>>>>> behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with
>> concern,
>>>> but
>>>>> also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred
>> in
>>>> the
>>>>> 30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution,
>>>> because
>>>>> the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a
>>>> holiday
>>>>> week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical
>>>>> political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they
>>>> believed
>>>>> the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have
>>>>> brought
>>>>> them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations
>> were
>>>>> either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the
>>>> most
>>>>> charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but
>> egregious
>>>>> errors in judgement by the accusers.
>>>>>
>>>>> I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these
>> unwarranted
>>>>> accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so
>>>> grievously
>>>>> misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused
>> AMSAT.
>>>> It
>>>>> would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken
>> trust
>>>>> with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum they
>>>>> should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they represent
>> a
>>>>> vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified
>>>>> candidates to replace them without their baggage.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board
>>>>> candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors,
>> or
>>>>> been
>>>>> endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alan Biddle
>>>>> WA4SCA
>>>>> Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>> Opinions
>>>>> expressed
>>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of
>>>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>> program!
>>>>> Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>> Opinions expressed
>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From corlissbs at aol.com  Sun Jul 12 19:48:48 2020
From: corlissbs at aol.com (Brad Smith)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 19:48:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
References: <1712165007.494111.1594583328598.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1712165007.494111.1594583328598@mail.yahoo.com>

If you care about the AMSAT organization continuing to help hams in space communications, please read and reread Patrick's and Michelle's explanations.? They layout exactly what happened. Now we learn that the expenditure is over 16k. That is 363 memberships, if this retired engineer's math is correct. This is money wasted to beat down two members who want transparency and progress. This was not right. Our money was wasted! I am anxious for the election.

Again, I ask that members do not resign over this. That helps nobody and hurts out hobby, which has already taken a huge hit. Solve this with your voting privilege.

73 Brad KC9UQR

From sjdevience at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 19:57:40 2020
From: sjdevience at gmail.com (Stephen DeVience)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 14:57:40 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb]  WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)
Message-ID: <CAMPfQQDb21oTOxOJzGKUKncsMKMhS1V0XmxfZVSXJD_aQqkb7A@mail.gmail.com>

"Additionally, the General Membership, GM, may normally attend BOD meets
but have no voting rights."

As a member, I was looking forward to receiving a Zoom link for the next
BOD meeting, but after a quick search online, this seems to only be true
for certain situations where government money is involved. We may need to
hire a lawyer to figure it out for sure...

I will just say that even as a non-profit, AMSAT is still like any other
corporation in that it provides a product (satellites, publications, etc.)
in return for compensation (donations, membership fees). Most members don't
care how the sausage is made, but they will care if there are no new
satellites because precious time and money are spent on internal conflict.
They will vote with their pocketbooks when they find something else
interesting to do. So the board needs to put aside its personal
differences, find some compromises to the legitimate grievances on both
sides, and focus on providing a good product that encourages people to
continue donating. Otherwise AMSAT will go the way of Sears and we will all
be stuck using cheap Chinese tools (satellites) instead.

-Stephen, N8URE

From framirezferrer at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 20:12:55 2020
From: framirezferrer at gmail.com (Fernando Ramirez)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 13:12:55 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation ...
In-Reply-To: <CANq+eyX6NY4yB+JaJ3XzK5-oxcRXh+11BYs_cmQo_MNFA5jW1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6428.1594425753.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<86224682-DB1E-4C42-8BFF-D4834983FAC8@mac.com>
	<000001d65757$8e1c7810$aa556830$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2V9uqxTaa6x5361+WCMJ+SyKuzrLGy8xnWdZu_Omn+_Bw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeaoQWF7NmQJM4BS4A-S7eJ7Wvx1wVP=uM2m+5bN0ymDBvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2V_oa9pL5O__zbe07Rb-6x0bdwuS+iVSfpBWYhWH2rbKw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyX6NY4yB+JaJ3XzK5-oxcRXh+11BYs_cmQo_MNFA5jW1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGHXx8gSM-m3bSz0MFD7ejsrNCfS76T7forZFPSBNHc=iOfpTQ@mail.gmail.com>

Just because someone can't take public criticism, or be held accountable
for his actions, that means that he's being "harassed". The officers and
board prior to the election decided to place prior restrains on a member,
and now we know, look for legal advise in order to retaliate and possibly
remove said member from the organization. For what? Just to cuddle the
seemingly fragile ego of a director/officer?

The membership sent a clear message last year, we want transparency and
accountability. We expected regular updates from the new directors in
regards to the current status of the organization. If that's harassment
then I don't know what to say. Maybe is a 2020 thing.

We can't allow a group of people that think AMSAT is their private property
to use our membership dues to retaliate against members and obstruct the
responsibility of duly elected directors.

KF7R

On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 12:22 PM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Director Thompson,
>
> You and Director Stoddard harassed and intimidated members of the board
> pre-2019 election. Fact.
> The pre-2019 Election board hired attorneys to deal with your intimidation
> and harassment. Fact.
> Every member of the pre-2019 Election board signed a letter, stating they
> were aware of the legal expenses. Fact.
> After you and Director Stoddard were elected to the board in 2019 you
> continued to harass and intimidate officers and board members of AMSAT.
> Fact.
>
> No matter what type of spin you put on this, no matter how many times you
> repeat your lies, you and director Stoddard are in the wrong here, and
> should resign immediately.
>
> Members of AMSAT that are reading this and wanting to know what they can
> do, it's simple. Do not vote for the candidates endorsed by Director
> Thompson and Director Stoddard in 2020. Call on Director Thompson and
> Director Stoddard publicly to resign. If they do not resign, do not return
> them to the board in 2021. With these simple steps AMSAT can return
> spending your membership dollars on keeping amateur radio in space, instead
> of defending against disgruntled former volunteers with bones to pick.
>
> -Dave, KG5CCI
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 12:30 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > Yes, I can try. You are correct. There is, and definitely should be,
> > latitude for ordinary day to day budgeted expenditures.
> >
> > An unauthorized expense is when  money was spent for something it was not
> > allocated for, or if the amount spent goes over a set amount.
> >
> > Both cases occur here. There was a $4k overage to a consulting firm. The
> > first $10k was properly authorized. But, officers just kept spending past
> > the limit.
> >
> > Hiring a law firm needs to be carefully documented, especially when
> > historically legal expenses are often zero.
> >
> > Authorized and expected costs include things like trademark and
> regulatory
> > consulting and review.
> >
> > Anything out of the ordinary, an unusual or unanticipated reason, or
> > something regarding liability, loss, and many personnel decisions, needs
> > authorization.
> >
> > The authorization for FD Associates appears in AMSAT meeting minutes.
> >
> > Hiring Hurwit does not appear in the minutes.
> >
> > A variety of unusual and personally motivated expenses followed.
> >
> > Targeting individual members (the denial of access, the NDA runaround,
> the
> > false claims of conflicts of interest were all advised by Hurwit) and
> then
> > attempting to move these expenses to "overhead", is an unauthorized and
> > improper use of member money.
> >
> > Mentioning us by name in payments, and grossly mischaracterizing mild
> > complaints and requests for help as deserving of a nuclear response, is
> an
> > unethical use of money.
> >
> > The board needed to go on the record about this contract, given the very
> > unusual nature of the expenses which did not fit into a budgeted or
> > recurring category, but they did not.
> >
> > I understand you may discount my opinion.
> >
> > That is why we hired a corporate governance specialist who reviewed
> > everything. She also wrote the demand letter that finally got me and
> > Patrick access to records in early February, four and a half months after
> > we were supposed to start our terms.
> >
> > She reviewed the additional documents we now had access to and explained
> > that some expensss were unauthorized and improper.
> >
> > We made our case to the board, looking to resolve this. They were silent
> > and completely uncooperative, until recently.
> >
> > The change happened when we asked to see copies of all the Hurwit checks.
> >
> > I campaigned for transparency. Without financial transparency,  many
> other
> > things simply don't work well.
> >
> > I'm optimistic there can be meaningful improvement.
> >
> > -Michelle W5NYV
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 09:14 Rich Gopstein <rich at ourowndomain.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Could you clarify "unauthorized"?  Not disclosing the expenditure after
> > > the fact is different from authorization.  Just trying to understand
> why
> > > the expenditures were not authorized.  I took a look at the bylaws, and
> > > it's clear that officers can be given latitude to make expenditures on
> > > behalf of AMSAT without board approval for each expenditure (as you
> would
> > > expect - it would be impractical for the board to have to approve every
> > > expenditure).
> > >
> > > Rich
> > > KD2CQ
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:20 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
> > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >> The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.
> > >>
> > >> Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally
> > have
> > >> been made.
> > >>
> > >> This failed.
> > >>
> > >> Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what
> we
> > >> did
> > >> along the way.
> > >>
> > >> This worked.
> > >>
> > >> Patrick and I are in the clear.
> > >>
> > >> The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.
> > >>
> > >> They claim the entire board knew about it.
> > >>
> > >> There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when
> > we
> > >> joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election
> > can
> > >> solve.
> > >>
> > >> Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.
> > >>
> > >> Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before
> > an
> > >> election, is simply the right thing to do.
> > >>
> > >> I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were
> announced.
> > >>
> > >> Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of
> unrepentantly
> > >> unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though.
> > >> This
> > >> is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.
> > >>
> > >> Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not
> > have
> > >> to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and
> > >> easily
> > >> resolved reasons.
> > >>
> > >> Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending
> definitely
> > >> is.
> > >>
> > >> If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will
> vote
> > >> to
> > >> return the same people to their jobs.
> > >>
> > >> I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates
> > that
> > >> will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward.
> > >> Robert, Howie, and Jeff.
> > >>
> > >> We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big
> difference.
> > >>
> > >> Michelle W5NYV
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of
> > >> > improper
> > >> > behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with
> > concern,
> > >> but
> > >> > also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred
> > in
> > >> the
> > >> > 30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution,
> > >> because
> > >> > the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a
> > >> holiday
> > >> > week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical
> > >> > political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they
> > >> believed
> > >> > the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have
> > >> > brought
> > >> > them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations
> > were
> > >> > either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the
> > >> most
> > >> > charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but
> > egregious
> > >> > errors in judgement by the accusers.
> > >> >
> > >> > I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these
> > unwarranted
> > >> > accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so
> > >> grievously
> > >> > misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused
> > AMSAT.
> > >> It
> > >> > would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken
> > trust
> > >> > with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum
> they
> > >> > should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they
> represent
> > a
> > >> > vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified
> > >> > candidates to replace them without their baggage.
> > >> >
> > >> > Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board
> > >> > candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors,
> > or
> > >> > been
> > >> > endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
> > >> >
> > >> > Alan Biddle
> > >> > WA4SCA
> > >> > Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> > >> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > >> Opinions
> > >> > expressed
> > >> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views
> > of
> > >> > AMSAT-NA.
> > >> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > >> program!
> > >> > Subscription settings:
> > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >> >
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > >> Opinions expressed
> > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> > >> AMSAT-NA.
> > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > >> Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >>
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From kb2mjeff at att.net  Sun Jul 12 20:13:20 2020
From: kb2mjeff at att.net (kb2mjeff at att.net)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 16:13:20 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] FoxDelta ST2-0417 USB setup help
In-Reply-To: <2715fda5-ec7a-39f4-8924-69925e8e540a@k6ccc.org>
References: <e40a1642-486b-c70c-ee29-19850aecc03d@k6ccc.org>
	<2715fda5-ec7a-39f4-8924-69925e8e540a@k6ccc.org>
Message-ID: <04c601d65888$e4192ce0$ac4b86a0$@att.net>

Hi Jim , it will good to hear you back on the air....

73 Jeff kb2m

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Jim Walls via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 15:32
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FoxDelta ST2-0417 USB setup help

A little follow up report.

Several people responded either direct to me or via the AMSAT-BB. Thank you to each of you.  Between all the various responses I was eventually able to both Nova for Windows and SatPC32 to be able to read the antenna positions and control the rotors.  I have a very strong preference of using Nova over SatPC32 so very happy I was able to get that working.  I have enjoyed watching the antennas follow several passes of various satellites over the past day or so.  Now I need to get new feedlines to the antennas, and fix the radio.  One step at a time, but I'm getting there.

Jim
K6CCC


On 07/08/2020 19:20, Jim Walls via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> I recently bought a FoxDelta ST2-0417 USB rotor interface for my Yaesu
> G-5500 rotor.  I have the ST-2 communicating with the rotor just fine.  
> I can see the azimuth and elevation readout and using the ST2 
> pushbuttons, I can control both just fine.   However, I can't get it 
> to communicate properly with my computer.  I am running a Dell desktop 
> under Windows 10 and have installed the CH360G driver.  The ST2 shows 
> as COM8 according the the device manager.  If I unplug the USB cable, 
> the Device Manager confirms that COM8 goes away and when I plug the 
> cable back in, COM8 returns.  I initially was trying to use Nova for 
> Windows (which I have used for 20+ years).  I tried every software 
> interface setting (using COM8) and the best I could get a couple weeks 
> ago was Azimuth display and control (no elevation display, but it 
> appeared that it tried to control elevation), but can't manage to 
> replicate that today. Everything shows either 0.0 / 0.0 or ---- / ---- 
> for the rotor pointing in Nova.
> Somewhat out of desperation, I downloaded SatPC32 and can't even get 
> that far.  As far as I can tell, every rotor type is expecting a 
> parallel port interface.  Keep in mind that I have never seen SatPC32 
> until an hour ago, so that may be my issue.
>
> My preference would be to use Nova for Windows, but if that can't be 
> made to work, I CAN switch over to SatPC32.  In either case, the 
> software will be used exclusively for rotor control and not doppler 
> correction (not using a radio that supports that).
>
>
> Do you have any suggestions?
>


--
73
-------------------------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
jim at k6ccc.org
Ofc:  818-548-4804
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From k9qho67622 at comcast.net  Sun Jul 12 20:42:31 2020
From: k9qho67622 at comcast.net (MICHAEL WILLIAMS)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 16:42:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [amsat-bb] 2.4GHz Satellite Beacons over US
Message-ID: <280170743.33890.1594586552026@connect.xfinity.com>

Ken,

The only beacon on 2.4 GHz I've successfully monitored is DTUSat-2 on 2.401835 GHz. However, its CW beacon is intermittent and only functions in sunlight as its batteries have failed. It's best received with a SDR as Doppler up there is 100 KHz over the pass. Google info on this sat. It's listed on the AMSAT website. Check my qrz.com page for a picture of DtuSat-2

The frequencies you list are down links and not beacon frequencies. Most all universities who operate these satellites only turn on the 2.4 GHz down link  when the satellite is directly over the control station and send down their data.

The University of Georgia Small Satellite Research Lab is going to launch a satellite on October 1st. It will down link on 2.4GHz. The satellite's name is SPOC. It's foot print will cover the USA.

Another sat to launch is AmiCalSat which will down link on 2.4. but you will have to request to have a down link signal sent at your location.

I'm going to research and listen to your list. I'm pretty sure UO-11 is no longer functioning on 2.4.

Good luck with your 2.4 GHz endeavors.

73, Mike (K9QHO)





From clintbradford at mac.com  Sun Jul 12 20:46:56 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 13:46:56 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please  Read
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6576.1594584791.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.6576.1594584791.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <2F4AE276-5D64-46F1-8FCD-5FB49F48835F@mac.com>

Members DO read. 

The AMSAT-NA board?s three-page letter explained the intimate 
details of a couple responsible business decisions. They felt the organization 
was being threatened, and they responded in a mature, responsible manner.

Members should demand no less.

And - again - membership dues were not used for these business expenses.

Clint Bradford K6LCS
909-999-SATS






> On Jul 12, 2020, at 1:13 PM, amsat-bb-request at amsat.org wrote:
> 
> f you care about the AMSAT organization continuing to help hams in space communications, please read and reread Patrick's and Michelle's explanations.? They layout exactly what happened. Now we learn that the expenditure is over 16k. That is 363 memberships, if this retired engineer's math is correct. This is money wasted to beat down two members who want transparency and progress. This was not right. Our money was wasted! I am anxious for the election.
> 
> Again, I ask that members do not resign over this. That helps nobody and hurts out hobby, which has already taken a huge hit. Solve this with your voting privilege.


From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 20:49:29 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 13:49:29 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation ...
In-Reply-To: <CANsNeao+OkYEoieZMDAaBzdqkrKiVby2eAqLFv1oyUxsV4ehGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6428.1594425753.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<86224682-DB1E-4C42-8BFF-D4834983FAC8@mac.com>
	<000001d65757$8e1c7810$aa556830$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2V9uqxTaa6x5361+WCMJ+SyKuzrLGy8xnWdZu_Omn+_Bw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeaoQWF7NmQJM4BS4A-S7eJ7Wvx1wVP=uM2m+5bN0ymDBvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2V_oa9pL5O__zbe07Rb-6x0bdwuS+iVSfpBWYhWH2rbKw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeao+OkYEoieZMDAaBzdqkrKiVby2eAqLFv1oyUxsV4ehGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2WhtGsiDSUOTjxRd5kBcdrczSDUh3HNJzjScT2cyA+ntA@mail.gmail.com>

I understand and appreciate your questions and interest. I don't take
offense at any of the questions. I know it's not a fun subject, not very
pleasant, and many people do not care or find the entire thing annoying.
Yes, it's annoying.

The minutes are the record of board activity.

If an expense is not in the record, and it's not an ordinary expense, it is
unauthorized. This could have been easy to rectify.

This wasn't printer cartridges or annual travel or catering for an annual
dinner. It was not handled like the hiring of FD Associates, the consulting
firm, which was providing things that help the mission of the organization.
It was the hiring of a Manhattan law firm, whose work products were, among
other things, advice on how to slow down or obstruct access to records.
That does not help the mission of the organization.

These were not ordinary business expenses. The responsibility of oversight
lies with the Directors. It's our job to ask questions about things like
this. We are just doing our jobs.

Board members that got together and did this before we were elected
completely refused to talk about it and refused to meet to resolve it.
Criticism is not an existential threat. Nuking people from orbit with
lawyers because you don't like their complaints creates very bad karma.

One could take an extremely broad view of legal expenses and accept any
legal expenditure as ok. We don't think that view serves any organization
very well, and it is not how AMSAT handled other expenses, like FD
Associates. Therefore we spoke up.

If Patrick and I were completely wrong about this, then the legal letter we
commissioned would have had no effect. It would have been answered
differently.

Once confronted with a letter summarizing why AMSAT was in the wrong, and
asking for specific relief citing specific case law, Joe Spier resigned.
There was a phone conference between the law firms and the AMSAT lawyer
backed down and agreed to all the contents of the letter. Clayton Coleman
took over as President and addressed the access to records within, I
believe, a week. He acknowledged the problem and we got to work on several
overdue items. Things were looking very good, we were moving forward.
Clayton does not deserve calls for his resignation, hate mail, or anything
like that. He is President during a very difficult time, in several ways. I
told him he had my support.

If we had gotten an acknowledgement that this was a bad decision, and
accounted for it and reconciled internally, we would not have gone to the
membership with the report. This is a problem that an apology could have
fixed. The majority wanted an election instead.

If you (or anyone else) has any further questions, please feel free to
call. I'm in the volunteer directory. Or, you can email me for my home
phone.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:51 AM Rich Gopstein <rich at ourowndomain.com>
wrote:

> Thanks.  I think we're getting closer :)
>
> It sounds like the "unauthorized expenses" were incurred before you and
> Patrick were on the board.  And the belief that they were unauthorized is
> based solely on reading the AMSAT board meeting minutes?  So if those
> expenses were authorized through some day-to-day operational procedure,
> then they wouldn't have shown up in the board meeting minutes?
>
> Note - I'm not defending the actions, just trying to understand if they
> were outside of the bylaws.  So far, there isn't any direct evidence that
> they were - unless I'm misunderstanding something.
>
> Rich
> KD2CQ
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 1:26 PM Michelle Thompson <
> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes, I can try. You are correct. There is, and definitely should be,
>> latitude for ordinary day to day budgeted expenditures.
>>
>> An unauthorized expense is when  money was spent for something it was not
>> allocated for, or if the amount spent goes over a set amount.
>>
>> Both cases occur here. There was a $4k overage to a consulting firm. The
>> first $10k was properly authorized. But, officers just kept spending past
>> the limit.
>>
>> Hiring a law firm needs to be carefully documented, especially when
>> historically legal expenses are often zero.
>>
>> Authorized and expected costs include things like trademark and
>> regulatory consulting and review.
>>
>> Anything out of the ordinary, an unusual or unanticipated reason, or
>> something regarding liability, loss, and many personnel decisions, needs
>> authorization.
>>
>> The authorization for FD Associates appears in AMSAT meeting minutes.
>>
>> Hiring Hurwit does not appear in the minutes.
>>
>> A variety of unusual and personally motivated expenses followed.
>>
>> Targeting individual members (the denial of access, the NDA runaround,
>> the false claims of conflicts of interest were all advised by Hurwit) and
>> then attempting to move these expenses to "overhead", is an unauthorized
>> and improper use of member money.
>>
>> Mentioning us by name in payments, and grossly mischaracterizing mild
>> complaints and requests for help as deserving of a nuclear response, is an
>> unethical use of money.
>>
>> The board needed to go on the record about this contract, given the very
>> unusual nature of the expenses which did not fit into a budgeted or
>> recurring category, but they did not.
>>
>> I understand you may discount my opinion.
>>
>> That is why we hired a corporate governance specialist who reviewed
>> everything. She also wrote the demand letter that finally got me and
>> Patrick access to records in early February, four and a half months after
>> we were supposed to start our terms.
>>
>> She reviewed the additional documents we now had access to and explained
>> that some expensss were unauthorized and improper.
>>
>> We made our case to the board, looking to resolve this. They were silent
>> and completely uncooperative, until recently.
>>
>> The change happened when we asked to see copies of all the Hurwit checks.
>>
>> I campaigned for transparency. Without financial transparency,  many
>> other things simply don't work well.
>>
>> I'm optimistic there can be meaningful improvement.
>>
>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 09:14 Rich Gopstein <rich at ourowndomain.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Could you clarify "unauthorized"?  Not disclosing the expenditure after
>>> the fact is different from authorization.  Just trying to understand why
>>> the expenditures were not authorized.  I took a look at the bylaws, and
>>> it's clear that officers can be given latitude to make expenditures on
>>> behalf of AMSAT without board approval for each expenditure (as you would
>>> expect - it would be impractical for the board to have to approve every
>>> expenditure).
>>>
>>> Rich
>>> KD2CQ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:20 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.
>>>>
>>>> Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally
>>>> have
>>>> been made.
>>>>
>>>> This failed.
>>>>
>>>> Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what we
>>>> did
>>>> along the way.
>>>>
>>>> This worked.
>>>>
>>>> Patrick and I are in the clear.
>>>>
>>>> The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.
>>>>
>>>> They claim the entire board knew about it.
>>>>
>>>> There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when
>>>> we
>>>> joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election
>>>> can
>>>> solve.
>>>>
>>>> Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.
>>>>
>>>> Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before
>>>> an
>>>> election, is simply the right thing to do.
>>>>
>>>> I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were announced.
>>>>
>>>> Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of unrepentantly
>>>> unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though.
>>>> This
>>>> is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.
>>>>
>>>> Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not
>>>> have
>>>> to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and
>>>> easily
>>>> resolved reasons.
>>>>
>>>> Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending definitely
>>>> is.
>>>>
>>>> If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will
>>>> vote to
>>>> return the same people to their jobs.
>>>>
>>>> I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates
>>>> that
>>>> will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward.
>>>> Robert, Howie, and Jeff.
>>>>
>>>> We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big difference.
>>>>
>>>> Michelle W5NYV
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of
>>>> > improper
>>>> > behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with
>>>> concern, but
>>>> > also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred
>>>> in the
>>>> > 30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution,
>>>> because
>>>> > the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a
>>>> holiday
>>>> > week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical
>>>> > political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they
>>>> believed
>>>> > the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have
>>>> > brought
>>>> > them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations
>>>> were
>>>> > either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the
>>>> most
>>>> > charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but
>>>> egregious
>>>> > errors in judgement by the accusers.
>>>> >
>>>> > I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these
>>>> unwarranted
>>>> > accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so
>>>> grievously
>>>> > misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused
>>>> AMSAT. It
>>>> > would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken
>>>> trust
>>>> > with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum they
>>>> > should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they represent
>>>> a
>>>> > vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified
>>>> > candidates to replace them without their baggage.
>>>> >
>>>> > Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board
>>>> > candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors,
>>>> or
>>>> > been
>>>> > endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
>>>> >
>>>> > Alan Biddle
>>>> > WA4SCA
>>>> > Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>> Opinions
>>>> > expressed
>>>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>>> of
>>>> > AMSAT-NA.
>>>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>> program!
>>>> > Subscription settings:
>>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>> >
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>> Opinions expressed
>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>>> of AMSAT-NA.
>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>> program!
>>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>
>>>

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 21:03:30 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 17:03:30 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <1712165007.494111.1594583328598@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1712165007.494111.1594583328598.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1712165007.494111.1594583328598@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c8eeEfCHORcgar3C3AXxGaTuJkLWb3yMkT3FHcpv1ENWQ@mail.gmail.com>

Brad,

What transparency and progress has been brought to the organization
from the members that you speak of?  Specifically?  It appears that
since they were voted in, everyone in the organization is now walking
on egg-shells. The BB is now plastered with emails asking which words
mean what feelings, name calling and chasing after the organization
using whatever legal means the wizards-of-smart can conjure up all in
the name of almighty, all-righeous, '''transparency'''. It all seems
rather insincere and unproductive to me.  People like this should do
the organization a favor, and leave, run their own competing
organization and take whatever people and dollars happen to follow
them.

I would honestly like to return to the ARISSat-1 days, where it was
just full-speed-ahead engineering and not all this talk all about
'saving AMSAT' and ORI garbage.  All this ORI promotion on the BB, is
absolute garbage.  No rational AMSAT member should be OK with that,
especially from an AMSAT BOD member.  ORI is a separate, competing
organization and their bylaws are..... telling.  If AMSATs bylaws were
ever amended to be anything like those, you can kiss your membership
goodbye, ref: https://openresearch.institute/organization-documents.
Their bylaws literally say "Membership shall consist of the Board of
Directors.".  Quite an Open organization, indeed!

But I digress... The more of these kinds of people you vote in, the
more the organization is going to be hurt, guaranteed. Because not
only is nothing going to get done, obviously some people don't want to
work with them for whatever-reasons and THAT actually is important.
And, the reasons are important too.  Have you wondered why...?  I do!
As a small business owner, when I hear such-and-such doesn't want to
work with so-and-so, I immediately want to ask "What happened"?  From
what the email traffic looks like, it seems like you may have to worry
about legal action for everything you say or do around them or, maybe
there was some pre-election history that most of the people that voted
for them, didn't know about.  I have no clue, but this all does make
me wonder.

Either way, it seems like the state of things right now is Much Worst
than it was prior-to the last election, so... Not sure why anyone
would want more of this.  For me, the socio-political environment is
just as important as the engi-nerding portion..  At the very least,
BOD members need to be promoting the organization they are on the
board of and noone should have to worry about legal retaliation over
every little thing.

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO

On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 3:58 PM Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> If you care about the AMSAT organization continuing to help hams in space communications, please read and reread Patrick's and Michelle's explanations.  They layout exactly what happened. Now we learn that the expenditure is over 16k. That is 363 memberships, if this retired engineer's math is correct. This is money wasted to beat down two members who want transparency and progress. This was not right. Our money was wasted! I am anxious for the election.
>
> Again, I ask that members do not resign over this. That helps nobody and hurts out hobby, which has already taken a huge hit. Solve this with your voting privilege.
>
> 73 Brad KC9UQR
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From framirezferrer at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 21:13:04 2020
From: framirezferrer at gmail.com (Fernando Ramirez)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 14:13:04 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <2F4AE276-5D64-46F1-8FCD-5FB49F48835F@mac.com>
References: <mailman.6576.1594584791.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<2F4AE276-5D64-46F1-8FCD-5FB49F48835F@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAGHXx8jkdXOXHK6QTnaPqp9YXDQ3XLUyKnVMwQj5Pk8c-9-qUw@mail.gmail.com>

Did the organization spend money when you literally threaten them with
litigation?

And where that money came from? I hope you'll say you donated $18,000
dollars to go after two directors and ultimately the will of the voting
membership.

KF7R


On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 2:06 PM Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Members DO read.
>
> The AMSAT-NA board?s three-page letter explained the intimate
> details of a couple responsible business decisions. They felt the
> organization
> was being threatened, and they responded in a mature, responsible manner.
>
> Members should demand no less.
>
> And - again - membership dues were not used for these business expenses.
>
> Clint Bradford K6LCS
> 909-999-SATS
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 12, 2020, at 1:13 PM, amsat-bb-request at amsat.org wrote:
> >
> > f you care about the AMSAT organization continuing to help hams in space
> communications, please read and reread Patrick's and Michelle's
> explanations.? They layout exactly what happened. Now we learn that the
> expenditure is over 16k. That is 363 memberships, if this retired
> engineer's math is correct. This is money wasted to beat down two members
> who want transparency and progress. This was not right. Our money was
> wasted! I am anxious for the election.
> >
> > Again, I ask that members do not resign over this. That helps nobody and
> hurts out hobby, which has already taken a huge hit. Solve this with your
> voting privilege.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From skristof at etczone.com  Sun Jul 12 21:15:48 2020
From: skristof at etczone.com (Steve Kristoff)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 17:15:48 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please  Read
In-Reply-To: <2F4AE276-5D64-46F1-8FCD-5FB49F48835F@mac.com>
References: <mailman.6576.1594584791.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<2F4AE276-5D64-46F1-8FCD-5FB49F48835F@mac.com>
Message-ID: <ae8bcdc9b275dd76c86c9de71bde1450@etczone.com>


Please remind me. What was the source of the money used for "these business expenses"?

Steve AI9IN

?
----- Original Message -----
From: Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
Date: 07/12/20 17:03
To: AMSAT BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read

And - again - membership dues were not used for these business expenses.

Clint Bradford K6LCS
909-999-SATS








From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 21:19:11 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 14:19:11 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Good news - Floating Vivado license available for
	community use
Message-ID: <CACvjz2XWs7Xb4JEd5FVXVr=qw4OVCf_bmO8vuCw46PTrbKbN9A@mail.gmail.com>

Good news - if  you are working on open source amateur radio satellite FPGA
code, we have a resource available for you.

Thanks to Yasme Foundation and ARRL Foundation support, Open Research
Institute has purchased a floating Vivado license (Vivado HL System
Edition). This includes the System Generator for DSP.

The only requirement is that the work be open source and publicly
accessible.

The license files are distributed through a Github key management function,
so if you already have a GitHub repository, then you are ready to go. Get
in touch with me with your GitHub account name to start setup.

The process has been tested but I'm sure some snags will be revealed as
more users come onboard.

If you are working on AMSAT-NA closed source FPGA work, then there are at
least two older node-locked Vivado licenses available. You should already
have access to those from within engineering.

There's a lot of really great opportunities to implement LDPC and other
high-performance error correcting codes, along with finite state machines
and camera support.

Does anyone have a need for another type of license? If there is something
standing in your way of getting things done, please let me know.

-Michelle W5NYV

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 12 21:22:57 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (GEO Badger)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 21:22:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)
In-Reply-To: <CAMPfQQDb21oTOxOJzGKUKncsMKMhS1V0XmxfZVSXJD_aQqkb7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMPfQQDb21oTOxOJzGKUKncsMKMhS1V0XmxfZVSXJD_aQqkb7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <511610008.529345.1594588977994@mail.yahoo.com>

Stephen,
I have no idea where that information is posted, or why. Typically, if a closed BOD meeting is called it is for personnel issues and the like.
---? 
 Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side??
73 de W3AB/GEO ??? 

 http://www.w3ab.org

You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out". 

    On Sunday, July 12, 2020, 01:00:29 PM PDT, Stephen DeVience via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 "Additionally, the General Membership, GM, may normally attend BOD meets
but have no voting rights."

As a member, I was looking forward to receiving a Zoom link for the next
BOD meeting, but after a quick search online, this seems to only be true
for certain situations where government money is involved. We may need to
hire a lawyer to figure it out for sure...

I will just say that even as a non-profit, AMSAT is still like any other
corporation in that it provides a product (satellites, publications, etc.)
in return for compensation (donations, membership fees). Most members don't
care how the sausage is made, but they will care if there are no new
satellites because precious time and money are spent on internal conflict.
They will vote with their pocketbooks when they find something else
interesting to do. So the board needs to put aside its personal
differences, find some compromises to the legitimate grievances on both
sides, and focus on providing a good product that encourages people to
continue donating. Otherwise AMSAT will go the way of Sears and we will all
be stuck using cheap Chinese tools (satellites) instead.

-Stephen, N8URE
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 12 21:29:23 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (GEO Badger)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 21:29:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation ...
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2WhtGsiDSUOTjxRd5kBcdrczSDUh3HNJzjScT2cyA+ntA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6428.1594425753.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<86224682-DB1E-4C42-8BFF-D4834983FAC8@mac.com>
	<000001d65757$8e1c7810$aa556830$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2V9uqxTaa6x5361+WCMJ+SyKuzrLGy8xnWdZu_Omn+_Bw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeaoQWF7NmQJM4BS4A-S7eJ7Wvx1wVP=uM2m+5bN0ymDBvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2V_oa9pL5O__zbe07Rb-6x0bdwuS+iVSfpBWYhWH2rbKw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeao+OkYEoieZMDAaBzdqkrKiVby2eAqLFv1oyUxsV4ehGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2WhtGsiDSUOTjxRd5kBcdrczSDUh3HNJzjScT2cyA+ntA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1566219804.519086.1594589363107@mail.yahoo.com>

 BTW folks, the BOD works for YOU, the GM. They should answer any and all questions openly, freely and honestly. It seems that the BOD is in stasis. Amsat is unable to move forward to meet its mission statement.

Now I have read that no Amsat money was used to employ the legal firm.
I assume paperwork can be produced that will back up that statement.

---??
Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side??
73 de W3AB/GEO ????

http://www.w3ab.org

You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out".

From gdm2md at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 20:50:47 2020
From: gdm2md at gmail.com (Gailen Marshall)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 15:50:47 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 233
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6554.1594566981.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.6554.1594566981.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <92CBBC69-47D9-46E3-A39C-4B8DBD8482F5@gmail.com>

Yes! Can we stick to the birds and let those interested in structural squabbling have their own venue? Gailen N5GDM

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 12, 2020, at 10:33, amsat-bb-request at amsat.org wrote:
> 
> ?Send AMSAT-BB mailing list submissions to
>    amsat-bb at amsat.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    amsat-bb-request at amsat.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>    amsat-bb-owner at amsat.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of AMSAT-BB digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: WA9JBQ Request (Kevin) (W3AB/GEO)
>   2. Re: Proposal for new list (bernd1peters at gmail.com)
>   3. Re: Foolishness (Michelle Thompson)
>   4. Re: WA9JBQ Request (Kevin) (Michelle Thompson)
>   5. Re: Proposal for new list (Matthias Bopp)
>   6. Re: Proposal for new list (Alan)
>   7. Re: Proposal for new list (Jean Marc Momple)
>   8. Re: Proposal for new list (Daniel Schultz)
>   9. Re: AMSAT Leadership Explanation ... (Michelle Thompson)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 20:53:55 -0700
> From: W3AB/GEO <w3ab at yahoo.com>
> To: "Mac A. Cody" <maccody at att.net>
> Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)
> Message-ID: <6011b4bf-88be-47a9-9ca1-839966207b04 at yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> Well stated Mac.
> 
> ?___
> Sent from my two way wrist watch
> 73 de W3AB/GEO?
> 
>> On Jul 11, 2020, 19:55, at 19:55, "Mac A. Cody via AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> As a means of affirming what Jerry has stated here, I'll comment
>> about my own experiences.? A few years ago, I volunteered to
>> help out on the AMSAT-SDR project.? Unfortunately, I had to bow
>> out because my employer was concerned about possible conflict of
>> interest.? It sucked, but I didn't want to place AMSAT, or the
>> other individuals that had volunteered to help, in a situation that
>> might impact the use of the technologies that were developed. If
>> anything, it spurred AMSAT to draw up a policy document on how to
>> address this type of conflict of interest.
>> 
>> I used to be a relatively frequent presence on the FM satellites,
>> but my involvement has pretty much ceased due to my work.? Let's
>> just say that I have developed some technologies in recent years,
>> some supporting the field of satellite networking, that are
>> starting to take off.? Consequently, my free time has become more
>> dominated by other priorities.
>> 
>> Sometimes life gets in the way.? Sometimes the reasons are good
>> and other times they are not.? We just have to be patient when it
>> happens to us and understanding when it happens to others.
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>> Mac Cody / AE5PH
>> 
>>> On 7/11/20 7:26 PM, Jerry Buxton via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>>> On 7/11/2020 17:16, Jeff via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>>>> I'm thinking Joe just had enough of all this BS, and I certainly
>> don't blame him....
>>> I will say that just like everyone, there are "real life" things that
>>> come up and demand and deserve the attention even if it impacts our
>>> hobby.? AMSAT Officers really are very dedicated volunteers and the
>>> hours are long (as my wife liked to say, "I saw more of you when you
>> got
>>> paid to work.")? Real life can slam what hours we have grown used to
>>> giving our hobby and that easily causes the appearance of neglect or
>>> wondering why an Officer appears to have gone AWOL.? Since the real
>> life
>>> stuff is often personal, despite the amount of sharing or appearances
>>> any volunteer is known for most are not willing to share their
>> personal
>>> life and problems with fellow hams everywhere via the same media they
>>> usually use.? Most probably don't even happen to think about any
>>> unexplained absence perceived by anyone beyond letting our other
>>> Officers and team leads know.? And when it gets too deep something's
>>> gotta give, and it will be hobby/volunteer time spent toward others
>> but
>>> the information shared publicly is often "personal reasons" for the
>>> obvious reason.? I don't think Joe or anyone else who has had to step
>>> down or step back from any position and effort they have been
>>> volunteering to AMSAT take that decision lightly or without
>> reluctance
>>> when it comes.
>>> Having had enough is certainly something that would be understandable
>>> since this is "just a hobby" but the reason for departure is not as
>>> likely to be a somber "personal reasons".? It's probably a much more
>>> lively response, I would imagine!?? hihi
>>> 
>>> Jerry Buxton, N?JY
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>>> Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 21:13:47 -0700
> From: <bernd1peters at gmail.com>
> To: <johnv at frontier.com>, "'Zach Metzinger'" <zmetzing at pobox.com>,
>    <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Proposal for new list
> Message-ID: <0b4e01d65802$d79b5af0$86d210d0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="utf-8"
> 
> Agree, one list for radio and another one for politics and lawyers
> 
> Bernd - KB7AK
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of johnv--- via AMSAT-BB
> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2020 5:04 PM
> To: amsat-bb at amsat.org; Zach Metzinger <zmetzing at pobox.com>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Proposal for new list
> 
> I tend to agree since I have no idea what administrative problem(s) there alleged  to be.     It can be handled elsewhere.
> This seems to be very minor when you compare it to how the individual states are being "run" and as we go down the hole in a hand basket.    
> 
> I will not reply to anyone else since I will remove myself from this list serve.
> I'm not mad, just going away.
> 
> John 
> N7AME
> 
> 
> Faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.
> 
> 
>    On Saturday, July 11, 2020, 2:57:16 PM PDT, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
> 
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I propose that a new list be created, separate from amsat-bb, for 
> discussion of administrative issues regarding AMSAT. This would improve 
> the SNR of amsat-bb for those of us who just want to play radio and work 
> satellites.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> --- Zach
> N0ZGO
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 22:14:33 -0700
> From: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle at gmail.com>
> To: Rich Gopstein <rich at ourowndomain.com>
> Cc: Amsat - BBs <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Foolishness
> Message-ID:
>    <CACvjz2XuYCvWsoEqjUETnMO1sUxtduv-khM2a=yEQb6at_2M+Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> The only agenda is to serve the members.
> 
> I want to work with people that provide basic corporate oversight, support
> the ITAR/EAR public domain carve outs, and see the value in microwave
> broadband digital payload work.
> 
> That won't happen with the incumbents.
> 
> They can't even be bothered to hold meetings.
> 
> Therefore, I and others have spoken up.
> 
> Please send us a team that can get ambitious things done.
> 
> -Michelle W5NYV
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 14:25 Rich Gopstein <rich at ourowndomain.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Michelle.  I did not intend to imply that people associated with
>> ORI shouldn't be on the AMSAT board.  I'm trying to understand if there's
>> an agenda behind a multi-year attempt at getting a majority on the AMSAT
>> board - including very public accusations against the existing board and
>> leadership.
>> 
>> I think that would help people make up their mind about how to vote.
>> 
>> Rich
>> KD2CQ
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 2:23 PM Michelle Thompson <
>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I can speak to this. Thank you for the opportunity.
>>> 
>>> It's the other way around. ORI provides all engineering to the general
>>> public, free of charge.
>>> 
>>> We've pledged our successful fundraising to directly benefit AMSAT in
>>> every way we know how. We've done significant legal and regulatory work to
>>> reduce ITAR/EAR burden, produced a wide variety of software and firmware,
>>> and now have the funds to prototype the hardware required for microwave
>>> broadband communications payloads.
>>> 
>>> We've published open source implementations of the best forward error
>>> correction codes that exist. We just bought a full Vivado floating license
>>> that anyone in the community can use.
>>> 
>>> The board and associate members (we have no paid members, so we don't
>>> even compete there) have been completely transparent about the intent and
>>> purpose of the engineering done by ORI.
>>> 
>>> ORI is a Member Society of AMSAT.
>>> 
>>> It's odd how ORI is portrayed here, yet Directors current and previous
>>> that have dual roles - such as working for NASA, working at Universities
>>> with commercial satellite projects, and working for commercial satellite
>>> companies - simply never get any criticism for using AMSAT to help their
>>> career or projects. In many cases, AMSAT has been used to further outside
>>> or commercial careers. Many of these people are unquestionably celebrated.
>>> 
>>> When someone (like myself) that starts a successful 501(c)(3) that works
>>> in the opposite direction - freely giving to the organization and
>>> supporting it whenever possible - one would hope it would be perceived as a
>>> positive.
>>> 
>>> All of this engineering and fundraising was the exact sort of thing I was
>>> doing within AMSAT engineering. When Joe Spier shut down the entire
>>> project, the dozens of people on the team asked if we could keep going.
>>> Bruce Perens was instrumental here in helping set up a 501(c)(3) that could
>>> operate as a research institute. And the rest is documented on our website.
>>> 
>>> While people like me shouldn't have to set up an entirely independent
>>> formal structure to volunteer for the AMSAT community, it has turned out to
>>> be fun, successful, and quite complementary to AMSAT's aims and purposes.
>>> 
>>> ORI is not a membership organization. It's not in competition for
>>> members. We sign up AMSAT members at every event we hold. We promote AMSAT
>>> publicly.
>>> 
>>> If the leadership of AMSAT really wants to view organizations like ORI as
>>> some sort of threat or crisis, then they are deliberately choosing to be
>>> anti-collaborative.
>>> 
>>> If you have to have Directors that don't have any other interests outside
>>> AMSAT, then you will end up with people that don't bring things like a
>>> strong network, experiences, or other organizational assets to the job.
>>> 
>>> Should Tom Clark have been thrown off the AMSAT board because he was also
>>> on the Virginia Tech Space Advisory Board? Should Brennan Price not be
>>> Secretary because he works for Inmarsat?
>>> 
>>> The opposite is also true. Ordinary people with ordinary common sense
>>> should also be in leadership. Diversity on the board can only improve it.
>>> 
>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 1:43 PM Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB <
>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I'm guessing it's more complex than that.  I suspect this is really about
>>>> ORI and trying to get AMSAT to outsource their satellite engineering to
>>>> ORI.  MIchelle Thompson is the CEO of ORI...
>>>> 
>>>> https://openresearch.institute/board-of-directors/
>>>> 
>>>> Rich, KD2CQ
>>>> AMSAT life member
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 8:34 AM John Spasojevich via AMSAT-BB <
>>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> All reads to me like a couple people broke into the old boys club and
>>>>> weren?t welcomed to the playground. AMSAT has been run by the same
>>>> people
>>>>> for years and years and years. Then again not many run for office so
>>>> our
>>>>> choices are limited.
>>>>> 
>>>>> John AG9D
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Saturday, July 11, 2020, Nick Pugh via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> This is a hobby
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Spending money on lawyer instead of satellite is dumb
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> My hope is you get on a Zoom call and put the fire out and take us
>>>> to HEO
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Nickk k5qxj
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cell      337 258 2527
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Helping UL become a world Class Engineering  and Educational School
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Disagree I Learn
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>>> available
>>>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>>> Opinions
>>>>>> expressed
>>>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>>> views of
>>>>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>>> program!
>>>>>> Subscription settings:
>>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>> Opinions
>>>>> expressed
>>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>>> of
>>>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>> program!
>>>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>> Opinions expressed
>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>> program!
>>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>> 
>>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 22:25:57 -0700
> From: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle at gmail.com>
> To: Robert Bankston <ke4al at amsat.org>, Robert Bankston
>    <ke4al at yahoo.com>
> Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)
> Message-ID:
>    <CACvjz2XZ+vv1O9-Ujx=TU5MRucLN=E9ZAo4Foo1xX5LRquUyzg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> That isn't true.
> 
> What you are saying is an easily disproven lie.
> 
> It took a demand letter, spelling out DC corporate code, to get access to
> ordinary corporate documents and communications.
> 
> That is a simple legal fact, confirmed by Clayton Coleman himself.
> 
> You can have your own opinions, but you do not get to have your own facts.
> 
> If the members reading this want change, then please change the leadership.
> 
> -Michelle W5NYV
> 
> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 13:41 Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> Patrick Stoddard and Michelle Thompson were emplaced on the Board as
>> Directors and aforded the same rights and privileges as the the other
>> elected and standing Directors.  No one treated them as "second class"
>> Directors.  In fact, every effort was made to welcome them on the Board.
>> Stoddard and Thompson had the ability to make motions, lead discussions
>> and vote, just as the other five directors, and they did.   At no time were
>> either of them prevented from doing their elected duties.  To say otherwise
>> is a completely FALSE statement. AMSAT is a nonprofit corporation with the
>> purpose of designing, building, launching, operating and promoting amateur
>> radio satellites and space communications.  AMSAT's leadership and
>> volunteers work every day to do this.  We have a lot of opportunities on
>> the horizon with GOLF-TEE, GOLF-1, our return to high Earth Orbits, and
>> AREx.   AMSAT is no place for politics and political rhetoric.  Let's get
>> back to work.    Robert, KE4AL
>> TreasurerVice-President, User ServicesDirector, AMSAT AmbassadorsRadio
>> Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)
>> 
>>    On Saturday, July 11, 2020, 01:58:16 PM CDT, Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> 
>> <And how would you describe the ethics of the two newest boardmembers
>> each creating online blogs where they cast doubt on AMSAT andthe people
>> running it? A little over a month on the BOD and in Octalready on that blog
>> posting grievances.>
>> Rememnber, the new members were duly elected and then discriminated
>> against because the board didn't like the fact that they won. So, they were
>> given a "junior' status, which is not what we elected them to be. That is
>> dirty pool. Very unethical.
>> Brad KC9UQR
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 09:21:55 +0000
> From: Matthias Bopp <matthias.bopp at dd1us.de>
> To: "amsat-bb at amsat.org" <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Proposal for new list
> Message-ID:
>    <LEXPR01MB049322C02B524499682BE3F4DE630 at LEXPR01MB0493.DEUPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.DE>
>    
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Hi,
> 
> My understanding is that the AMSAT-BB was meant to be an international forum for AMSAT members and people interested in it, not just for AMSAT-NA.
> 
> Presently it seems to me that it is dominantly an AMSAT-NA forum dealing with internal problems in a way, which is harming the image of AMSAT worldwide.
> Many people might confuse "AMSAT-NA" with "AMSAT" worldwide respectively other national AMSAT organizations.
> 
> Therefore, I support the proposal from Zach to move the AMSAT-NA internal non-technical discussions to a separate "AMSAT-NA" forum.
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Matthias
> 
> www.dd1us.de
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 4:57 PM Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> I propose that a new list be created, separate from amsat-bb, for 
>> discussion of administrative issues regarding AMSAT. This would 
>> improve the SNR of amsat-bb for those of us who just want to play 
>> radio and work satellites.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> --- Zach
>> N0ZGO
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available 
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. 
>> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect 
>> the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 06:40:15 -0500
> From: "Alan" <wa4sca at gmail.com>
> To: <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Proposal for new list
> Message-ID: <000001d65841$368bf9f0$a3a3edd0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
> 
> I sympathize about concerns for discussion forums which become monopolized
> by something which is profoundly uninteresting or even offensive. Going
> offline until it dies down or moving to another venue are viable solutions,
> and I have utilized both. However, in some cases that is a double edged
> sword.
> 
> I used to be a member of an international social/hobby organization which
> dwarfs AMSAT and even the ARRL in membership and finances. Paraphrasing and
> compressing the situation somewhat, we had an initially very small but
> focused group of "reformers" who wished to make changes to the organization
> to modernize it, and to push "the old guard" out. There were many soothing
> words, and the "reformers" became very adept at using the organizations own
> rules in creative ways to further their cause. Many of the local chapters
> explicitly or implicitly discouraged any discussions of the issues since
> that always resulted in "conflict." It came to pass that the reformers
> achieved their goals, and set about instituting their enlightened policies.
> Despite all the honeyed words, nothing which was promised about new members
> and projects came to pass. The organization currently still exists, but with
> cratering membership and finances.
> 
> So how does that apply here? I encounter people I used to know there who are
> wondering what happened, and how? "Why didn't somebody warn us?!" Some had
> been the most adamant in keeping anything which would cause "conflict" out.
> For me, a classic case of not being sure whether to laugh or cry. Of course
> what can take a generation in a large organization can happen in the blink
> of an eye in a small one. If you don't pay attention now, you may well be
> wondering what happened sooner rather than later. A true cautionary tale
> that sometimes what you do not wish to deal with is what you should give the
> most attention. Choose wisely.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Alan
> WA4SCA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 18:49:01 +0400
> From: Jean Marc Momple <jean.marc.momple at gmail.com>
> To: Zach Metzinger <zmetzing at pobox.com>
> Cc: "amsat-bb at amsat.org" <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Proposal for new list
> Message-ID: <54EF6DBA-9A1C-466A-BA91-0B36506B73FD at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> 
> Zach,
> 
> I also support your proposal or suggest to the AMSAT-NA (I am a member) leaders to stop asap the politics on the BB which to my humble opinion is not an electoral platform were the mud should be thrown, but a platform for international exchange of ideas, sharing infos and friendship. I also agree with Matthias that all this is tarnishing our image worldwide thus reducing our chances for sponsorship and towards authorities such as regulators across the globe. The harm has already be made but let's try to mitigate the consequences by acting ?professionally? and try to correct things now.
> 
> The opponents have other means such as direct mail, the blogs, facebook etc? to make their point to AMSAT-NA members for the coming elections, my opinion is already made about all this dispute and I will vote accordingly.
> 
> 73
> 
> 
> Jean Marc (3B8DU)
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 12, 2020, at 1:21 PM, Matthias Bopp via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> My understanding is that the AMSAT-BB was meant to be an international forum for AMSAT members and people interested in it, not just for AMSAT-NA.
>> 
>> Presently it seems to me that it is dominantly an AMSAT-NA forum dealing with internal problems in a way, which is harming the image of AMSAT worldwide.
>> Many people might confuse "AMSAT-NA" with "AMSAT" worldwide respectively other national AMSAT organizations.
>> 
>> Therefore, I support the proposal from Zach to move the AMSAT-NA internal non-technical discussions to a separate "AMSAT-NA" forum.
>> 
>> Kind regards
>> 
>> Matthias
>> 
>> www.dd1us.de
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 4:57 PM Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> 
>>> I propose that a new list be created, separate from amsat-bb, for 
>>> discussion of administrative issues regarding AMSAT. This would 
>>> improve the SNR of amsat-bb for those of us who just want to play 
>>> radio and work satellites.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> --- Zach
>>> N0ZGO
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available 
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. 
>>> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect 
>>> the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 23:32:04 -0400
> From: "Daniel Schultz" <n8fgv at usa.net>
> To: <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Proposal for new list
> Message-ID: <433ygLDfe8576Set.1594524724 at web07.cms.usa.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
>> I propose that a new list be created, separate from amsat-bb, for
>> discussion of administrative issues regarding AMSAT. This would improve
>> the SNR of amsat-bb for those of us who just want to play radio and work
>> satellites.
>> 
>> There are various areas of interest for me, and mud-slinging is not one 
>> of them. Building stuff is what I'm here for, and I'm heavily engaged in 
>> that.
> 
> 
> These satellites don't just build themselves. If you choose not to get
> involved with YOUR organization, then don't post on amsat-bb someday wondering
> why there are no more satellites available for you to "play radio" with. 
> 
> For some, this may be "just a hobby", for those who volunteer to serve AMSAT
> with their personal time and effort, it is much more than "just a hobby". I
> believe that every volunteer comes to AMSAT to serve the cause of keeping
> amateur radio in space, but may see different ways to move the organization
> forward toward that goal. 
> 
> There is a Board election coming up very soon. Like all elections, it behooves
> you as a good citizen of AMSAT to be informed of the issues and make a wise
> choice in voting for your elected representatives. As my high school civics
> teacher (and probably yours) said, "if you don't vote, you don't have a right
> to complain". 
> 
> 73, Dan Schultz N8FGV
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 08:16:07 -0700
> From: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle at gmail.com>
> To: APBIDDLE at mailaps.org, Alan <wa4sca at gmail.com>
> Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation ...
> Message-ID:
>    <CACvjz2V9uqxTaa6x5361+WCMJ+SyKuzrLGy8xnWdZu_Omn+_Bw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.
> 
> Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally have
> been made.
> 
> This failed.
> 
> Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what we did
> along the way.
> 
> This worked.
> 
> Patrick and I are in the clear.
> 
> The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.
> 
> They claim the entire board knew about it.
> 
> There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when we
> joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election can
> solve.
> 
> Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.
> 
> Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before an
> election, is simply the right thing to do.
> 
> I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were announced.
> 
> Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of unrepentantly
> unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though. This
> is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.
> 
> Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not have
> to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and easily
> resolved reasons.
> 
> Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending definitely is.
> 
> If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will vote to
> return the same people to their jobs.
> 
> I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates that
> will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward.
> Robert, Howie, and Jeff.
> 
> We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big difference.
> 
> Michelle W5NYV
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of
>> improper
>> behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with concern, but
>> also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred in the
>> 30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution, because
>> the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a holiday
>> week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical
>> political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they believed
>> the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have
>> brought
>> them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations were
>> either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the most
>> charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but egregious
>> errors in judgement by the accusers.
>> 
>> I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these unwarranted
>> accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so grievously
>> misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused AMSAT. It
>> would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken trust
>> with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum they
>> should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they represent a
>> vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified
>> candidates to replace them without their baggage.
>> 
>> Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board
>> candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors, or
>> been
>> endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
>> 
>> Alan Biddle
>> WA4SCA
>> Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via amsat-bb at amsat.org.
> AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.  Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 233
> *****************************************

From chad.kg0mw at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 22:10:39 2020
From: chad.kg0mw at gmail.com (Chad KG0MW)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 17:10:39 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Directors Stoddard and Thompson
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2X45ZY1QueGyHth6g=BJsQSXT4TLP3daFRSBYwGJhis0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7Oqdm4WJ6JampJg7jy5m+o1AzDgbJ=0uP9hmzb2m5oZLhQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2X45ZY1QueGyHth6g=BJsQSXT4TLP3daFRSBYwGJhis0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <42E0BD45-9C32-40D4-8F07-EF5C0C3D1705@gmail.com>

In my opinion what the membership wants is a productive organization that is actively working on the next generation of sats. I believe they also want better education of how to work satellites and sat communication in general. They also want a BoD they can trust in (Which they do and have).
The incumbents have done a tremendous job keeping an organization with low overall funds alive and kicking.
Trying to say the President or any other Director has done anything to hurt, defund, embarrass AMSAT is wrong. There was not misspending of funds. EVERYONE involved was on the lookout and protection of this great organization.
MIchelle, you are right in that we need to send volunteers to the board who will support AMSAT. That includes its future AND legacy. Through all of this, one thing I think and hope has happened is that more people will stand up to volunteer in any capacity. AMSAT has cried for volunteers for a long time. We all send in our minimum $44 and expect a satellite will magically appear in orbit. It cannot be done without constructive communication and behavior.
Because you call someone out on misspending of funds, does not automatically make them guilty and proves nothing.
You are also correct in that we need a better volunteer experience. In my opinion that includes conversation and communications should be between the directors. Not necessarily always made public. Doing so has done nothing but stain our reputation and push members away. Sadly the legal funds spent were needed. If we compare the cost of how many memberships that equates to, then lets try to compare that to how many members have we lost the support of. Or how about new members it scares away!?

Have a blessed day. To be continued I am sure?

Chad


	
Chad Phillips
KG0MW
Amsat Ambassador
www.kg0mw.com


> On Jul 11, 2020, at 1:37 PM, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> I recommend researching the bios of the people running for the Board for
> 2020 election.
> 
> The incumbents have tried to make this about currently serving Directors,
> as if it's a referendum on our oversight. If that's the case, then good.
> Let them.
> 
> If the membership wants clean and transparent financial behavior, then
> please replace the men that secretly hired a law firm and blocked access to
> corporate records and communications.
> 
> They have admitted they secretly hired this firm, admitted that the
> demand letter was the only reason they restored access, and have halted
> regular meetings.
> 
> How can one productively work with people that refuse to even meet?
> 
> Please send volunteers to the board that won't act like this. There will be
> significant and long-lasting improvement. This will take a lot of work.
> However, everyone will get increased benefit from your membership dues,
> better communications, and a better volunteer experience across the
> organization.
> 
> -Michelle W5NYV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 2:43 PM Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> I am able to find Director Thompson's bio but I'm unable to find anything
>> about Director Stoddard.  Is there a bio with work history, background,
>> education, volunteer work, and so on?
>> 
>> I'm curious.
>> 
>> Bob W7OTJ
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From chad.kg0mw at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 22:15:13 2020
From: chad.kg0mw at gmail.com (Chad KG0MW)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 17:15:13 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c8eeEfCHORcgar3C3AXxGaTuJkLWb3yMkT3FHcpv1ENWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1712165007.494111.1594583328598.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1712165007.494111.1594583328598@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CADkz4c8eeEfCHORcgar3C3AXxGaTuJkLWb3yMkT3FHcpv1ENWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B56205F9-8D49-470B-88FC-BEE714A42F85@gmail.com>

I did read and do not believe what they are accusing the board of. I feel I know that board members well enough to put my support behind them. I have never met anyone involved with AMSAT that wanted to hurt the organization in any way. To say they misspent the money I feel is wrong. They did so to protect the organization. Sadly lawyers are not cheap and the money had to be spent. The accusations is what will tear us at the seams?

chad


	
Chad Phillips
KG0MW
Amsat Ambassador
www.kg0mw.com


> On Jul 12, 2020, at 4:03 PM, Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> Brad,
> 
> What transparency and progress has been brought to the organization
> from the members that you speak of?  Specifically?  It appears that
> since they were voted in, everyone in the organization is now walking
> on egg-shells. The BB is now plastered with emails asking which words
> mean what feelings, name calling and chasing after the organization
> using whatever legal means the wizards-of-smart can conjure up all in
> the name of almighty, all-righeous, '''transparency'''. It all seems
> rather insincere and unproductive to me.  People like this should do
> the organization a favor, and leave, run their own competing
> organization and take whatever people and dollars happen to follow
> them.
> 
> I would honestly like to return to the ARISSat-1 days, where it was
> just full-speed-ahead engineering and not all this talk all about
> 'saving AMSAT' and ORI garbage.  All this ORI promotion on the BB, is
> absolute garbage.  No rational AMSAT member should be OK with that,
> especially from an AMSAT BOD member.  ORI is a separate, competing
> organization and their bylaws are..... telling.  If AMSATs bylaws were
> ever amended to be anything like those, you can kiss your membership
> goodbye, ref: https://openresearch.institute/organization-documents.
> Their bylaws literally say "Membership shall consist of the Board of
> Directors.".  Quite an Open organization, indeed!
> 
> But I digress... The more of these kinds of people you vote in, the
> more the organization is going to be hurt, guaranteed. Because not
> only is nothing going to get done, obviously some people don't want to
> work with them for whatever-reasons and THAT actually is important.
> And, the reasons are important too.  Have you wondered why...?  I do!
> As a small business owner, when I hear such-and-such doesn't want to
> work with so-and-so, I immediately want to ask "What happened"?  From
> what the email traffic looks like, it seems like you may have to worry
> about legal action for everything you say or do around them or, maybe
> there was some pre-election history that most of the people that voted
> for them, didn't know about.  I have no clue, but this all does make
> me wonder.
> 
> Either way, it seems like the state of things right now is Much Worst
> than it was prior-to the last election, so... Not sure why anyone
> would want more of this.  For me, the socio-political environment is
> just as important as the engi-nerding portion..  At the very least,
> BOD members need to be promoting the organization they are on the
> board of and noone should have to worry about legal retaliation over
> every little thing.
> 
> Joseph Armbruster
> KJ4JIO
> 
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 3:58 PM Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> 
>> If you care about the AMSAT organization continuing to help hams in space communications, please read and reread Patrick's and Michelle's explanations.  They layout exactly what happened. Now we learn that the expenditure is over 16k. That is 363 memberships, if this retired engineer's math is correct. This is money wasted to beat down two members who want transparency and progress. This was not right. Our money was wasted! I am anxious for the election.
>> 
>> Again, I ask that members do not resign over this. That helps nobody and hurts out hobby, which has already taken a huge hit. Solve this with your voting privilege.
>> 
>> 73 Brad KC9UQR
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From rich at ourowndomain.com  Sun Jul 12 22:15:46 2020
From: rich at ourowndomain.com (Rich Gopstein)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 18:15:46 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation ...
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2WhtGsiDSUOTjxRd5kBcdrczSDUh3HNJzjScT2cyA+ntA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6428.1594425753.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<86224682-DB1E-4C42-8BFF-D4834983FAC8@mac.com>
	<000001d65757$8e1c7810$aa556830$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2V9uqxTaa6x5361+WCMJ+SyKuzrLGy8xnWdZu_Omn+_Bw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeaoQWF7NmQJM4BS4A-S7eJ7Wvx1wVP=uM2m+5bN0ymDBvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2V_oa9pL5O__zbe07Rb-6x0bdwuS+iVSfpBWYhWH2rbKw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeao+OkYEoieZMDAaBzdqkrKiVby2eAqLFv1oyUxsV4ehGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2WhtGsiDSUOTjxRd5kBcdrczSDUh3HNJzjScT2cyA+ntA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANsNeaqHjwHAodCpN9pH+BC=JxOQ0SicNxGtZmc8gjBazcrN8A@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks.  That helps.  I appreciate your willingness to answer my questions.

Rich
KD2CQ


On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 4:50 PM Michelle Thompson <
mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:

> I understand and appreciate your questions and interest. I don't take
> offense at any of the questions. I know it's not a fun subject, not very
> pleasant, and many people do not care or find the entire thing annoying.
> Yes, it's annoying.
>
> The minutes are the record of board activity.
>
> If an expense is not in the record, and it's not an ordinary expense, it
> is unauthorized. This could have been easy to rectify.
>
> This wasn't printer cartridges or annual travel or catering for an annual
> dinner. It was not handled like the hiring of FD Associates, the consulting
> firm, which was providing things that help the mission of the organization.
> It was the hiring of a Manhattan law firm, whose work products were, among
> other things, advice on how to slow down or obstruct access to records.
> That does not help the mission of the organization.
>
> These were not ordinary business expenses. The responsibility of oversight
> lies with the Directors. It's our job to ask questions about things like
> this. We are just doing our jobs.
>
> Board members that got together and did this before we were elected
> completely refused to talk about it and refused to meet to resolve it.
> Criticism is not an existential threat. Nuking people from orbit with
> lawyers because you don't like their complaints creates very bad karma.
>
> One could take an extremely broad view of legal expenses and accept any
> legal expenditure as ok. We don't think that view serves any organization
> very well, and it is not how AMSAT handled other expenses, like FD
> Associates. Therefore we spoke up.
>
> If Patrick and I were completely wrong about this, then the legal letter
> we commissioned would have had no effect. It would have been answered
> differently.
>
> Once confronted with a letter summarizing why AMSAT was in the wrong, and
> asking for specific relief citing specific case law, Joe Spier resigned.
> There was a phone conference between the law firms and the AMSAT lawyer
> backed down and agreed to all the contents of the letter. Clayton Coleman
> took over as President and addressed the access to records within, I
> believe, a week. He acknowledged the problem and we got to work on several
> overdue items. Things were looking very good, we were moving forward.
> Clayton does not deserve calls for his resignation, hate mail, or anything
> like that. He is President during a very difficult time, in several ways. I
> told him he had my support.
>
> If we had gotten an acknowledgement that this was a bad decision, and
> accounted for it and reconciled internally, we would not have gone to the
> membership with the report. This is a problem that an apology could have
> fixed. The majority wanted an election instead.
>
> If you (or anyone else) has any further questions, please feel free to
> call. I'm in the volunteer directory. Or, you can email me for my home
> phone.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:51 AM Rich Gopstein <rich at ourowndomain.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks.  I think we're getting closer :)
>>
>> It sounds like the "unauthorized expenses" were incurred before you and
>> Patrick were on the board.  And the belief that they were unauthorized is
>> based solely on reading the AMSAT board meeting minutes?  So if those
>> expenses were authorized through some day-to-day operational procedure,
>> then they wouldn't have shown up in the board meeting minutes?
>>
>> Note - I'm not defending the actions, just trying to understand if they
>> were outside of the bylaws.  So far, there isn't any direct evidence that
>> they were - unless I'm misunderstanding something.
>>
>> Rich
>> KD2CQ
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 1:26 PM Michelle Thompson <
>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, I can try. You are correct. There is, and definitely should be,
>>> latitude for ordinary day to day budgeted expenditures.
>>>
>>> An unauthorized expense is when  money was spent for something it was
>>> not allocated for, or if the amount spent goes over a set amount.
>>>
>>> Both cases occur here. There was a $4k overage to a consulting firm. The
>>> first $10k was properly authorized. But, officers just kept spending past
>>> the limit.
>>>
>>> Hiring a law firm needs to be carefully documented, especially when
>>> historically legal expenses are often zero.
>>>
>>> Authorized and expected costs include things like trademark and
>>> regulatory consulting and review.
>>>
>>> Anything out of the ordinary, an unusual or unanticipated reason, or
>>> something regarding liability, loss, and many personnel decisions, needs
>>> authorization.
>>>
>>> The authorization for FD Associates appears in AMSAT meeting minutes.
>>>
>>> Hiring Hurwit does not appear in the minutes.
>>>
>>> A variety of unusual and personally motivated expenses followed.
>>>
>>> Targeting individual members (the denial of access, the NDA runaround,
>>> the false claims of conflicts of interest were all advised by Hurwit) and
>>> then attempting to move these expenses to "overhead", is an unauthorized
>>> and improper use of member money.
>>>
>>> Mentioning us by name in payments, and grossly mischaracterizing mild
>>> complaints and requests for help as deserving of a nuclear response, is an
>>> unethical use of money.
>>>
>>> The board needed to go on the record about this contract, given the very
>>> unusual nature of the expenses which did not fit into a budgeted or
>>> recurring category, but they did not.
>>>
>>> I understand you may discount my opinion.
>>>
>>> That is why we hired a corporate governance specialist who reviewed
>>> everything. She also wrote the demand letter that finally got me and
>>> Patrick access to records in early February, four and a half months after
>>> we were supposed to start our terms.
>>>
>>> She reviewed the additional documents we now had access to and explained
>>> that some expensss were unauthorized and improper.
>>>
>>> We made our case to the board, looking to resolve this. They were silent
>>> and completely uncooperative, until recently.
>>>
>>> The change happened when we asked to see copies of all the Hurwit checks.
>>>
>>> I campaigned for transparency. Without financial transparency,  many
>>> other things simply don't work well.
>>>
>>> I'm optimistic there can be meaningful improvement.
>>>
>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 09:14 Rich Gopstein <rich at ourowndomain.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Could you clarify "unauthorized"?  Not disclosing the expenditure after
>>>> the fact is different from authorization.  Just trying to understand why
>>>> the expenditures were not authorized.  I took a look at the bylaws, and
>>>> it's clear that officers can be given latitude to make expenditures on
>>>> behalf of AMSAT without board approval for each expenditure (as you would
>>>> expect - it would be impractical for the board to have to approve every
>>>> expenditure).
>>>>
>>>> Rich
>>>> KD2CQ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:20 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.
>>>>>
>>>>> Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally
>>>>> have
>>>>> been made.
>>>>>
>>>>> This failed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what
>>>>> we did
>>>>> along the way.
>>>>>
>>>>> This worked.
>>>>>
>>>>> Patrick and I are in the clear.
>>>>>
>>>>> The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.
>>>>>
>>>>> They claim the entire board knew about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when
>>>>> we
>>>>> joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election
>>>>> can
>>>>> solve.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.
>>>>>
>>>>> Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before
>>>>> an
>>>>> election, is simply the right thing to do.
>>>>>
>>>>> I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were
>>>>> announced.
>>>>>
>>>>> Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of unrepentantly
>>>>> unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though.
>>>>> This
>>>>> is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.
>>>>>
>>>>> Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not
>>>>> have
>>>>> to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and
>>>>> easily
>>>>> resolved reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>> Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending
>>>>> definitely is.
>>>>>
>>>>> If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will
>>>>> vote to
>>>>> return the same people to their jobs.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates
>>>>> that
>>>>> will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward.
>>>>> Robert, Howie, and Jeff.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big difference.
>>>>>
>>>>> Michelle W5NYV
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of
>>>>> > improper
>>>>> > behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with
>>>>> concern, but
>>>>> > also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred
>>>>> in the
>>>>> > 30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution,
>>>>> because
>>>>> > the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a
>>>>> holiday
>>>>> > week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical
>>>>> > political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they
>>>>> believed
>>>>> > the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have
>>>>> > brought
>>>>> > them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations
>>>>> were
>>>>> > either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the
>>>>> most
>>>>> > charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but
>>>>> egregious
>>>>> > errors in judgement by the accusers.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these
>>>>> unwarranted
>>>>> > accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so
>>>>> grievously
>>>>> > misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused
>>>>> AMSAT. It
>>>>> > would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken
>>>>> trust
>>>>> > with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum
>>>>> they
>>>>> > should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they
>>>>> represent a
>>>>> > vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified
>>>>> > candidates to replace them without their baggage.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board
>>>>> > candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors,
>>>>> or
>>>>> > been
>>>>> > endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Alan Biddle
>>>>> > WA4SCA
>>>>> > Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>>>> available
>>>>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>>> Opinions
>>>>> > expressed
>>>>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>>>> views of
>>>>> > AMSAT-NA.
>>>>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>>> program!
>>>>> > Subscription settings:
>>>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>> >
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>>> Opinions expressed
>>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>>>> of AMSAT-NA.
>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>>> program!
>>>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>>
>>>>

From chad.kg0mw at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 22:21:46 2020
From: chad.kg0mw at gmail.com (Chad KG0MW)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 17:21:46 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please  Read
In-Reply-To: <ae8bcdc9b275dd76c86c9de71bde1450@etczone.com>
References: <mailman.6576.1594584791.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<2F4AE276-5D64-46F1-8FCD-5FB49F48835F@mac.com>
	<ae8bcdc9b275dd76c86c9de71bde1450@etczone.com>
Message-ID: <A0F2A1E5-7721-4345-A9D6-C420DBFF96D3@gmail.com>

Well put Cliff.



	
Chad Phillips
KG0MW
Amsat Ambassador
www.kg0mw.com


> On Jul 12, 2020, at 4:15 PM, Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> Please remind me. What was the source of the money used for "these business expenses"?
> 
> Steve AI9IN
> 
>  
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
> Date: 07/12/20 17:03
> To: AMSAT BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
> 
> And - again - membership dues were not used for these business expenses.
> 
> Clint Bradford K6LCS
> 909-999-SATS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From chad.kg0mw at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 22:25:34 2020
From: chad.kg0mw at gmail.com (Chad KG0MW)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 17:25:34 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)
In-Reply-To: <1600328320.483550.1594579392984@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1186842614.210684.1594493829693.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1186842614.210684.1594493829693@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1442215093.239842.1594499675615@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CACvjz2XZ+vv1O9-Ujx=TU5MRucLN=E9ZAo4Foo1xX5LRquUyzg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN6TEUd_YThTK6ooFd4Y9PtFTWo+eabjjL4pYMvLzi1h6bXRHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1600328320.483550.1594579392984@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <480C7F8F-0EE6-40C2-A53C-7A8C32B7D4FB@gmail.com>

Well said and every BoD person is aware of those simple rules and abides by them. I am confident in that.

chad


	
Chad Phillips
KG0MW
Amsat Ambassador
www.kg0mw.com


> On Jul 12, 2020, at 1:43 PM, GEO Badger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> Thank you Patrick, you saved me a long email to write. Many many do not understand what a non-profit is or how it is to operate. A 501 (c) (3) has a very specific set of rules to operate by in order to maintain its incorporation. They are listed in the organization's bylaws, which are to be a public document. All those points you mentioned are correct.. Additionally, the General Membership, GM, may normally attend BOD meets but have no voting rights. There are to be minutes taken at each BOD meeting that may be requested by the GM.
> Another very important point I would like to point out is that the BOD are personally responsible for any financial liabilities incurred by the organization they serve.
> ---  
> Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side  
> 73 de W3AB/GEO     
> 
> http://www.w3ab.org
> 
> You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out".
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From chad.kg0mw at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 22:27:55 2020
From: chad.kg0mw at gmail.com (Chad KG0MW)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 17:27:55 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)
In-Reply-To: <511610008.529345.1594588977994@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CAMPfQQDb21oTOxOJzGKUKncsMKMhS1V0XmxfZVSXJD_aQqkb7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<511610008.529345.1594588977994@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2BDF5BB4-7CF1-4D93-AC32-E22BC66EA88E@gmail.com>

You are right Stephen. 
The attacks on members should never have happened in the first place.

chad


	
Chad Phillips
KG0MW
Amsat Ambassador
www.kg0mw.com


> On Jul 12, 2020, at 4:22 PM, GEO Badger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> Stephen,
> I have no idea where that information is posted, or why. Typically, if a closed BOD meeting is called it is for personnel issues and the like.
> ---  
> Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side  
> 73 de W3AB/GEO     
> 
> http://www.w3ab.org
> 
> You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out". 
> 
>    On Sunday, July 12, 2020, 01:00:29 PM PDT, Stephen DeVience via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
> 
> "Additionally, the General Membership, GM, may normally attend BOD meets
> but have no voting rights."
> 
> As a member, I was looking forward to receiving a Zoom link for the next
> BOD meeting, but after a quick search online, this seems to only be true
> for certain situations where government money is involved. We may need to
> hire a lawyer to figure it out for sure...
> 
> I will just say that even as a non-profit, AMSAT is still like any other
> corporation in that it provides a product (satellites, publications, etc.)
> in return for compensation (donations, membership fees). Most members don't
> care how the sausage is made, but they will care if there are no new
> satellites because precious time and money are spent on internal conflict.
> They will vote with their pocketbooks when they find something else
> interesting to do. So the board needs to put aside its personal
> differences, find some compromises to the legitimate grievances on both
> sides, and focus on providing a good product that encourages people to
> continue donating. Otherwise AMSAT will go the way of Sears and we will all
> be stuck using cheap Chinese tools (satellites) instead.
> 
> -Stephen, N8URE
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From tnetcenter at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 22:35:28 2020
From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 15:35:28 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation ...
In-Reply-To: <1566219804.519086.1594589363107@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.6428.1594425753.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<86224682-DB1E-4C42-8BFF-D4834983FAC8@mac.com>
	<000001d65757$8e1c7810$aa556830$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2V9uqxTaa6x5361+WCMJ+SyKuzrLGy8xnWdZu_Omn+_Bw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeaoQWF7NmQJM4BS4A-S7eJ7Wvx1wVP=uM2m+5bN0ymDBvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2V_oa9pL5O__zbe07Rb-6x0bdwuS+iVSfpBWYhWH2rbKw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANsNeao+OkYEoieZMDAaBzdqkrKiVby2eAqLFv1oyUxsV4ehGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2WhtGsiDSUOTjxRd5kBcdrczSDUh3HNJzjScT2cyA+ntA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1566219804.519086.1594589363107@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CALx_moQ4bvJHv1vnAZZGAR6tgR6=e1GZODVMp2+Jti9V3d=+2w@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not an AMSAT member so I have no dog in this fight.   Just based on
what I've read here - unauthorized expenses are not approved by the
membership and having been President of a volunteer organization that
experienced unauthorized expenses, I can tell you that spending money that
is not yours and you are not authorized to spend is called EMBESSELMENT!!!
It is illegal and should result in the removal of the parties involved and
probably should require criminal charges to be pressed against them as well!

At the very least, this should be thoroughly investigated by a 3rd party
and appropriate action taken!!

Just because you don't like the message being put out by those concerned
about this situation, doesn't mean the situation should be ignored and
covered up.   Get over it and let the truth be revealed - ALL OF IT!!

DON'T re-elect parties that are operating illegally and DON'T throw out the
parties that are reporting it, regardless of whether you agree or not.
Let the facts speak for themselves!!!

7  3 and good luck!!

Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY
CN94




On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 2:53 PM GEO Badger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

>  BTW folks, the BOD works for YOU, the GM. They should answer any and all
> questions openly, freely and honestly. It seems that the BOD is in stasis.
> Amsat is unable to move forward to meet its mission statement.
>
> Now I have read that no Amsat money was used to employ the legal firm.
> I assume paperwork can be produced that will back up that statement.
>
> ---
> Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side
> 73 de W3AB/GEO
>
> http://www.w3ab.org
>
> You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out".
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From tnetcenter at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 22:41:59 2020
From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 15:41:59 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 233
In-Reply-To: <92CBBC69-47D9-46E3-A39C-4B8DBD8482F5@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6554.1594566981.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<92CBBC69-47D9-46E3-A39C-4B8DBD8482F5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALx_moQZ9HNG3EeubGMDq5kGR8sdB9JLCLmOht6S4NWWfvo9Cg@mail.gmail.com>

You can choose to ignore the problem as long as you don't care about the
organization!   IF you DO CARE - then you'd better do something about it -
NOT IGNORE IT!!!  Or you won't have an organization left to ignore!!

 7   3
Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY
CN94


On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 3:21 PM Gailen Marshall via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Yes! Can we stick to the birds and let those interested in structural
> squabbling have their own venue? Gailen N5GDM
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 12, 2020, at 10:33, amsat-bb-request at amsat.org wrote:
>
>

From clintbradford at mac.com  Sun Jul 12 23:03:38 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 16:03:38 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <CABzOSOoD6zoOWZt57fD6MN5v1cqa9LuYmsWjhf0FgwgayvtSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6576.1594584791.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<2F4AE276-5D64-46F1-8FCD-5FB49F48835F@mac.com>
	<CAGHXx8jkdXOXHK6QTnaPqp9YXDQ3XLUyKnVMwQj5Pk8c-9-qUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABzOSOoD6zoOWZt57fD6MN5v1cqa9LuYmsWjhf0FgwgayvtSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5FABA837-46AC-4E9D-85F7-1E6A49F96971@mac.com>

>> ? Did the organization spend money when you literally threaten them with litigation?

My problem was never with AMSAT-NA. It was one of their volunteers - ?EWK - who was accusing me 
of plagiarism, of otherwise being dishonest, and his additional libelous, published statements intended 
to damage my reputation. 

Legal recourse? It would have taken a lot of money for me to initiate formal litigation. But that was never 
my intent. I knew as soon as the AMSAT-NA board saw how close they were to becoming involved in 
such a case, they would rein in the threat. Patrick collaborated creating an obscene, defamatory 
Web site for a short while, then, apparently lost interest.

My ?cease and desist? letter achieved its intended result, as far as I am concerned.

Clint Bradford K6LCS



From tnetcenter at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 23:12:27 2020
From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 16:12:27 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <B56205F9-8D49-470B-88FC-BEE714A42F85@gmail.com>
References: <1712165007.494111.1594583328598.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1712165007.494111.1594583328598@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CADkz4c8eeEfCHORcgar3C3AXxGaTuJkLWb3yMkT3FHcpv1ENWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<B56205F9-8D49-470B-88FC-BEE714A42F85@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALx_moTsf3Hgy7FkF7xr+89Cs3sNuJtWnB8axXePrXVggP-73Q@mail.gmail.com>

You don't cover up unauthorized spending and you don't spend money you
aren't cleared to spend!   Let the parties involved explain this thoroughly
or have an independent  3rd party do so!  Either way, we are all due the
facts, not conjecture, and character support statements!   LET THE FACTS
SPEAK TO THE SITUATION NOT OPINIONS!!

7  3
Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY


On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 3:51 PM Chad KG0MW via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> I did read and do not believe what they are accusing the board of. I feel
> I know that board members well enough to put my support behind them. I have
> never met anyone involved with AMSAT that wanted to hurt the organization
> in any way. To say they misspent the money I feel is wrong. They did so to
> protect the organization. Sadly lawyers are not cheap and the money had to
> be spent. The accusations is what will tear us at the seams?
>
> chad
>
>
>
> Chad Phillips
> KG0MW
> Amsat Ambassador
> www.kg0mw.com
>
>
> > On Jul 12, 2020, at 4:03 PM, Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > Brad,
> >
> > What transparency and progress has been brought to the organization
> > from the members that you speak of?  Specifically?  It appears that
> > since they were voted in, everyone in the organization is now walking
> > on egg-shells. The BB is now plastered with emails asking which words
> > mean what feelings, name calling and chasing after the organization
> > using whatever legal means the wizards-of-smart can conjure up all in
> > the name of almighty, all-righeous, '''transparency'''. It all seems
> > rather insincere and unproductive to me.  People like this should do
> > the organization a favor, and leave, run their own competing
> > organization and take whatever people and dollars happen to follow
> > them.
> >
> > I would honestly like to return to the ARISSat-1 days, where it was
> > just full-speed-ahead engineering and not all this talk all about
> > 'saving AMSAT' and ORI garbage.  All this ORI promotion on the BB, is
> > absolute garbage.  No rational AMSAT member should be OK with that,
> > especially from an AMSAT BOD member.  ORI is a separate, competing
> > organization and their bylaws are..... telling.  If AMSATs bylaws were
> > ever amended to be anything like those, you can kiss your membership
> > goodbye, ref: https://openresearch.institute/organization-documents.
> > Their bylaws literally say "Membership shall consist of the Board of
> > Directors.".  Quite an Open organization, indeed!
> >
> > But I digress... The more of these kinds of people you vote in, the
> > more the organization is going to be hurt, guaranteed. Because not
> > only is nothing going to get done, obviously some people don't want to
> > work with them for whatever-reasons and THAT actually is important.
> > And, the reasons are important too.  Have you wondered why...?  I do!
> > As a small business owner, when I hear such-and-such doesn't want to
> > work with so-and-so, I immediately want to ask "What happened"?  From
> > what the email traffic looks like, it seems like you may have to worry
> > about legal action for everything you say or do around them or, maybe
> > there was some pre-election history that most of the people that voted
> > for them, didn't know about.  I have no clue, but this all does make
> > me wonder.
> >
> > Either way, it seems like the state of things right now is Much Worst
> > than it was prior-to the last election, so... Not sure why anyone
> > would want more of this.  For me, the socio-political environment is
> > just as important as the engi-nerding portion..  At the very least,
> > BOD members need to be promoting the organization they are on the
> > board of and noone should have to worry about legal retaliation over
> > every little thing.
> >
> > Joseph Armbruster
> > KJ4JIO
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 3:58 PM Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB
> > <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> If you care about the AMSAT organization continuing to help hams in
> space communications, please read and reread Patrick's and Michelle's
> explanations.  They layout exactly what happened. Now we learn that the
> expenditure is over 16k. That is 363 memberships, if this retired
> engineer's math is correct. This is money wasted to beat down two members
> who want transparency and progress. This was not right. Our money was
> wasted! I am anxious for the election.
> >>
> >> Again, I ask that members do not resign over this. That helps nobody
> and hurts out hobby, which has already taken a huge hit. Solve this with
> your voting privilege.
> >>
> >> 73 Brad KC9UQR
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From n8hm at arrl.net  Mon Jul 13 00:00:16 2020
From: n8hm at arrl.net (Paul Stoetzer)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 17:00:16 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] ANS-194 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletins
Message-ID: <CABzOSOoV3sQj16NLrBKz8Mwm49eGB1__ULHraPHRnY6N3Ytm4g@mail.gmail.com>

AMSAT NEWS SERVICE
ANS-194

The AMSAT News Service bulletins are a free, weekly news and infor-
mation service of AMSAT, The Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation. ANS
publishes news related to Amateur Radio in Space including reports on
the activities of a worldwide group of Amateur Radio operators who
share an active interest in designing, building, launching and commun-
icating through analog and digital Amateur Radio satellites.

The news feed on http://www.amsat.org publishes news of Amateur
Radio in Space as soon as our volunteers can post it.

Please send any amateur satellite news or reports to:
ans-editor at amsat.org.

You can sign up for free e-mail delivery of the AMSAT News Service
Bulletins via the ANS List; to join this list see:
http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/ans


In this edition:

* AMSAT Leadership Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses
* Update on HO-107 (HuskySat-1)
* AMSAT-DL Proposes LunART - Luna Amateur Radio Transponder
* Buffalo Soldiers Special Event on the Satellites
* Hamfests, Conventions, Maker Faires, and Other Events
* Upcoming Satellite Operations
* Upcoming ARISS Contacts
* Satellite Shorts from All Over


SB SAT @ AMSAT $ANS-194.01
ANS-194 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletins

AMSAT News Service Bulletin 194.01
 From AMSAT HQ KENSINGTON, MD.
DATE July 12, 2020
To All RADIO AMATEURS
BID: $ANS-194.01

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

         Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, the AMSAT office
    is closed until further notice. For details, please visit
  https://www.amsat.org/amsat-office-closed-until-further-notice/

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

AMSAT Leadership Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses

On July 10, 2020, AMSAT President Clayton Coleman, W5PFG, sent the
following letter to AMSAT members regarding legal expenses incurred
during the 2018-2020 timeframe. The letter was co-signed by Dr. Tom
Clark, K3IO, Martha Saragovitz, Keith Baker, KB1SF, Robert Bankston,
CPA, KE4AL, Jerry Buxton, N0JY, Drew Glasbrenner, KO4MA, Dr. Mark
Hammond, N8MH, Bruce Paige, KK5DO, and Paul Stoetzer, N8HM.

https://tinyurl.com/ANS-194-Letter

[ANS thanks the AMSAT Office for the above information]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Update on HO-107 (HuskySat-1)

AMSAT Vice President - Engineering Jerry Buxton, N0JY, posted the
following update on HO-107 (HuskySat-1) on the AMSAT-BB:

While it is disappointing that the transponder did not see a longer
period of use following the science missions, the overall
HuskySat-1/HO-107 project and mission were quite beneficial for our
partner and for AMSAT.  The HuskySat-1 team were able to command their
satellite and experiments and receive the telemetry they sought, and
AMSAT was able to work through the extensive process of making a new
design for a "black box" radio module that can be integrated into a
non-AMSAT spacecraft and fly in the space environment.

The LTM (Linear Transponder Module) on HO-107 worked for over three
months after HuskySat-1 came alive following its deployment.
The failure of the LTM came during or just after a period of full sun
where LTM temperatures reached over 80 degrees Celsius.

While licensed and operated as an amateur radio satellite by AMSAT
during the transponder use, there are some facts that set HO-107 apart
from our Fox-1 CubeSats and other AMSAT satellites.

1. It's not our satellite.  We have no control and may not have any
insight into how a partner actually uses the LTM.  While we see the
LTM temperatures and many of the other typical data fields that we
downlink to FoxTelem regarding LTM health, data such as temperature of
the host environment as well as other specific information like power
and the state of the other systems in a host satellite may or may not
be available to us.  Whether LTM is operated within design limits is
entirely up to the host.

The University of Washington HuskySat Labs team was very cooperative
with us on this mission, however there are things regarding their
mission that we do not know because they are processing and studying
their data for use in their thesis and classes and preparing it for
release in a specific way typical of such an institution today.  AMSAT
is generally more forthcoming with information about our missions but
what we can and have said about this mission is determined by UW.
That is really no different to certain aspects of our own missions.
Most members are likely familiar with the vague wording I provide for
some of our launch timelines and that is the result of the same thing,
in the owner of the launch vehicle or LSP/APIC determining what we can
say to the public and when.

2.  HO-107 was the first ever use of a new product, the AMSAT LTM.
The LTM idea was first put forth at the AMSAT leadership strategic
planning meeting in 2017 and is now coming into availability for other
non-AMSAT CubeSats to fly amateur radio on their mission.

HO-107 is the pilot production of LTM and was developed in partnership
with UW HuskySat-1.  It was the first CubeSat radio module designed
and built by AMSAT for use in other host CubeSats, and UW was key in
working with us through the design and processes needed to provide
such a module.  They did not buy it as, nor did we give it to them as
an "off the shelf" product as we plan to for future LTM production.
LTM was developed from the Fox-1E linear transponder design, and
provided in a partnership with UW that started in November 2014 when
we made an agreement with University of Washington to fly an amateur
radio on their CubeSat mission.  Overall, the HuskySat-1 team were
quite happy with the telemetry and command performance even with the
LTM anomalies showing up toward the end of their experiments.  In the
process of getting HuskySat-1 to orbit several students became
interested in amateur radio, and we have already had preliminary
discussions of future joint mission plans.

The ability to provide more LTM to new and future partners will
increase the number of orbiting satellites carrying amateur radio, at
a low cost to AMSAT and the partner, keeping amateur radio in space
even as we develop newer and more capable satellites.  There is no
doubt that HO-107 was a success in many ways beyond the operational
life of the transponder.

As usual, the AMSAT Engineering team of volunteers deserve the praise
for putting yet another amateur radio in space be it in our own
satellite, or in a partner satellite!

[ANS thanks Jerry Buxton, N0JY, AMSAT Vice President - Engineering,
for the above information]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

AMSAT's GOLF Program is about getting back to higher orbits, and it
all begins with GOLF-TEE ? a technology demonstrator for deployable
solar panels, propulsion, and attitude control. Come along for the
ride. The journey will be worth it!

                  https://tinyurl.com/ANS-GOLF

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

AMSAT-DL Proposes LunART - Luna Amateur Radio Transponder

AMSAT-DL has submitted a proposal to the European Space Agency to
place an amateur radio communications link on the Large European
Lander. This system would support direct communication with earth
through amateur radio frequencies in the microwave bands, support
University and Student Payloads with direct access to their
experiments, allow Radio Science for a huge community of radio amateur
operators and scientists worldwide. It would also provide an important
back-up communication capability and capacity during emergency or when
the ESA network is busy.

More details can be found at https://tinyurl.com/ANS-LunART

AMSAT wishes our friends at AMSAT-DL the best of luck on their
proposal. This would be a great resource for amateur radio should it
come to fruition.

[ANS thanks AMSAT-DL for the above information]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Buffalo Soldiers Special Event on the Satellites

In honor of Buffalo Soldiers Month and to commemorate the formation of
the United States Army 9th and 10th Calvary Buffalo Soldiers Regiments
the Texas Parks and Wildlife will take part of a worldwide amateur radio
special event on July 25th - 26th, 2020.  Transmissions will begin
transmitting at 8am CST Saturday morning July 25 and will end 8pm CST
Sunday July 26.  Commemorative QSL cards and Certificates will be
available (see the callsign W5W or W5B at the QRZ.com web site for QSL
information).

Operations will be held on:

Voice 10, 15, 20, 40 and 80 meters
Digital FT8 on 20, 40 and 80 meters
CW on 20, 40 meters
Satellite

Listen for the FCC assigned callsigns:  W5W or W5B

Shortwave Listeners (SWL) are encouraged to participate.

For those without amateur radio privileges to transmit or listen in,
please join us Saturday July 25 at 1pm CST on Facebook Live, look for
Buffalo Soldiers Program - Texas Parks and Wildlife, for participation
and a chance at a special QSL Card and Commemorative Certificate.

For additional information about the Buffalo Soldiers legacy and an
excellent video history about the Buffalo Soldiers with commentary
from Judge Joe Green please visit www.qrz.com and enter W5W or W5B
into the search box.


[ANS thanks Rudy Hardy, W5HRH, for the above information]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

           Purchase AMSAT Gear on our Zazzle storefront.
          25% of the purchase price of each product goes
            towards Keeping Amateur Radio in Space
              https://www.zazzle.com/amsat_gear

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

Hamfests, Conventions, Maker Faires, and Other Events

Want to see AMSAT in action or learn more about amateur radio in
space?

AMSAT Ambassadors provide presentations, demonstrate communicating
through amateur satellites, and host information tables at club
meetings, hamfests, conventions, maker faires, and other events.

Due to COVID-19, many hamfest and events around the United States have
been canceled or postponed. While we make every effort to ensure the
information contained below is correct, there may be some that we
missed.

No events are currently scheduled. We wish all of you safekeeping and
hope to be at a hamfest near you soon.

[ANS thanks Robert Bankston, KE4AL, AMSAT Vice President - User
Services, for the above information]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

    Need new satellite antennas? Purchase Arrows, Alaskan Arrows,
   and M2 LEO-Packs from the AMSAT Store. When you purchase through
          AMSAT, a portion of the proceeds goes towards
                 Keeping Amateur Radio in Space.
           https://amsat.org/product-category/hardware/

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

Upcoming Satellite Operations

Quick Hits:

EM57 & EM67 (Saturday 7/11 & 7/12) N4DCW may also stop in EM58, passes
posted on his QRZ page.
FN45 & FN46, VE2FUA, 7/12 & 7/13: Chris is heading out to a little
known (to rovers at least) called Maine. Might want to get him while
he is there.
DN44, 7/13 ? 7/17, @N7AGF FM for sure may bring linear gear if it
fits.
FM13 & FM03, 7/12 & 7/13, Wz4M is heading out Holiday Style
EN20/30 Line, July 28-31, KX9X : Sean is moving quickly towards his
VUCC/R award by heading out again for two more grids. Watch his
Twitter for details.
DM97/98 & EM08/09: Super Rover @ADoDX is heading out for the Kansas
QSO party and N0E. More to come.

@WY7AA is heading out again!!!

Mon. 7/13 Drive day possible FM passes from DN63
Tues ? Sat. 7/14 ? 7/18 SSB and FM passes from DN64 Burgess
Junction, WY.  Some HF POTA K-4534 Big Horn National Forest
Sun. 7/19 Travel day no sats, but internet updates
Mon 7/20 SSB and FM passes from DN67/68.  Every pass from about 16:00
? 04:00
Tues 7/21 SSB and FM passes from DN57/58.  Every pass from about 16:00
? 04:00
Wed. 7/22 Travel day no sats
Thurs 7/23 SSB and FM passes from DN55/56.  Every pass from about
16:00 ? 04:00
Fri 7/24 SSB and FM passes from DN65/66.  Every pass from about
16:00 ? 04:00
Watch his QRZ page for details and updates.

Please submit any additions or corrections to ke0pbr at gmail.com

[ANS thanks Paul Overn, KE0PBR, for the above information]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Upcoming ARISS Contacts

Quick list of scheduled contacts and events:

Don Bosco Haacht Technisch en Beroepsonderwijs, Haacht, Belgium, Multi
-point telebridge via AB1OC

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be NA1SS
The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR
Contact was successful: Fri 2020-07-10 10:49:51 UTC 27 deg (***)

International Aerospace School, Ufa, Russia, direct via TBD

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be RS?ISS
The scheduled astronaut is Ivan Vagner
Contact is go for Fri 2020-07-17 19:10 UTC

[ANS thanks Charlie Sufana, AJ9N, ARISS Operations, for the above
information]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

   AMSAT, along with our ARISS partners, is developing an amateur
   radio package, including two-way communication capability, to
           be carried on-board Gateway in lunar orbit.

   Support AMSAT's projects today at https://www.amsat.org/donate/

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

Satellite Shorts From All Over

+Congratulations to Kevin Manzer, N4UFO, on earning AMSAT GridMaster
Award #12 for working all 488 continental US grids. Kevin notes that
it took him just over five years, from 2013-2018, to accomplish this
goal. More information regarding the GridMaster Award can be found at
https://www.amsat.org/gridmaster/ (via KK5DO and N4UFO)

+F4DXV and R9LR have set another new satellite distance record - this
time on LilacSat-2. The 4,561 km QSO occured on 10-Jul-2020 at 04:23
UTC. Records are listed at https://tinyurl.com/ANS-SatDist (via F4DXV
and N8HM)

+An article about the first amateur radio communication system in
lunar orbit, aboard LO-94, has been published at
https://tinyurl.com/ANS-194-LO-94 (via BG2BHC on Twitter).

+Congratulations to KP4RV for being the first station in Puerto Rico
to receive the VUCC Award on amateur satellites (via KF7R on Twitter).

+The European Space Agency recently published a how-to video regarding
reception of ISS SSTV pictures. An ISS SSTV transmission is expected
within the next few weeks in commemoration of the 45th anniversary of
Apollo/Soyuz: https://youtu.be/HtC-BPcMruA

+All issues of The AMSAT Journal dating back to 2014 are now available
to AMSAT members on AMSAT's new membership portal. The 1969-2013
archive will be added at a later date. All editions of AMSAT's
Symposium Proceedings are also available for members If you're a
current AMSAT member, get logged on today. If you are not yet a
member, consider joining today at https://launch.amsat.org/

+The 2020 edition of AMSAT?s Getting Started with Amateur Satellites
is now available on the AMSAT store. A perennial favorite, Getting
Started is updated every year with the latest amateur satellite
information, and is the premier primer of satellite operation. The
book is presented in DRM-free PDF format, in full color, and covers
all aspects of making your first contacts on a ham radio satellite.
The digital download is available for $15 at
https://tinyurl.com/2020GettingStarted

+ The AMSAT Folding at home team continues to climb the rankings. Now
in the top 900 of all teams at the time of this writing, the team has
grown to 48 members with 67 active CPUs within the past 50 days and
includes 12 members in the top 100,000 of all users. Alex Free,
N7AGF, is our top contributor with over 159,000,000 points credited
to AMSAT's team. For more information about the Folding at home
project and how you can contribute to scientific research, including
the fight against COVID-19, see https://foldingathome.org/. AMSAT's
team number is 69710: https://stats.foldingathome.org/team/69710

---------------------------------------------------------------------

/EX

In addition to regular membership, AMSAT offers membership in the
President's Club. Members of the President's Club, as sustaining
donors to AMSAT Project Funds, will be eligible to receive addi-
tional benefits. President's Club donations may be made at
https://tinyurl.com/ANS-PresClub.

Primary and secondary school students are eligible for membership
at one-half the standard yearly rate. Post-secondary school students
enrolled in at least half time status shall be eligible for the stu-
dent rate for a maximum of 6 post-secondary years in this status.

Join AMSAT today at https://launch.amsat.org/

73 and remember to help Keep Amateur Radio in Space,

This week's ANS Editor,

Paul Stoetzer, N8HM
n8hm at amsat dot org

From wa7fwf at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 01:15:04 2020
From: wa7fwf at gmail.com (Kevin)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 18:15:04 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <CALx_moTsf3Hgy7FkF7xr+89Cs3sNuJtWnB8axXePrXVggP-73Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1712165007.494111.1594583328598.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1712165007.494111.1594583328598@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CADkz4c8eeEfCHORcgar3C3AXxGaTuJkLWb3yMkT3FHcpv1ENWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<B56205F9-8D49-470B-88FC-BEE714A42F85@gmail.com>
	<CALx_moTsf3Hgy7FkF7xr+89Cs3sNuJtWnB8axXePrXVggP-73Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <483ee974-9307-6c99-3e20-10864dc59972@gmail.com>

Since you are not a member Jeff you would not have received the email 
that we all did clearly stating that there was no unauthorized spending.

You can read it here...

https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf

Kevin WA7FWF #19623

On 7/12/2020 4:12 PM, Jeff Moore via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> You don't cover up unauthorized spending and you don't spend money you
> aren't cleared to spend!   Let the parties involved explain this thoroughly
> or have an independent  3rd party do so!  Either way, we are all due the
> facts, not conjecture, and character support statements!   LET THE FACTS
> SPEAK TO THE SITUATION NOT OPINIONS!!
>
> 7  3
> Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 3:51 PM Chad KG0MW via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
>> I did read and do not believe what they are accusing the board of. I feel
>> I know that board members well enough to put my support behind them. I have
>> never met anyone involved with AMSAT that wanted to hurt the organization
>> in any way. To say they misspent the money I feel is wrong. They did so to
>> protect the organization. Sadly lawyers are not cheap and the money had to
>> be spent. The accusations is what will tear us at the seams?
>>
>> chad
>>
>>
>>
>> Chad Phillips
>> KG0MW
>> Amsat Ambassador
>> www.kg0mw.com
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 12, 2020, at 4:03 PM, Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>> Brad,
>>>
>>> What transparency and progress has been brought to the organization
>>> from the members that you speak of?  Specifically?  It appears that
>>> since they were voted in, everyone in the organization is now walking
>>> on egg-shells. The BB is now plastered with emails asking which words
>>> mean what feelings, name calling and chasing after the organization
>>> using whatever legal means the wizards-of-smart can conjure up all in
>>> the name of almighty, all-righeous, '''transparency'''. It all seems
>>> rather insincere and unproductive to me.  People like this should do
>>> the organization a favor, and leave, run their own competing
>>> organization and take whatever people and dollars happen to follow
>>> them.
>>>
>>> I would honestly like to return to the ARISSat-1 days, where it was
>>> just full-speed-ahead engineering and not all this talk all about
>>> 'saving AMSAT' and ORI garbage.  All this ORI promotion on the BB, is
>>> absolute garbage.  No rational AMSAT member should be OK with that,
>>> especially from an AMSAT BOD member.  ORI is a separate, competing
>>> organization and their bylaws are..... telling.  If AMSATs bylaws were
>>> ever amended to be anything like those, you can kiss your membership
>>> goodbye, ref: https://openresearch.institute/organization-documents.
>>> Their bylaws literally say "Membership shall consist of the Board of
>>> Directors.".  Quite an Open organization, indeed!
>>>
>>> But I digress... The more of these kinds of people you vote in, the
>>> more the organization is going to be hurt, guaranteed. Because not
>>> only is nothing going to get done, obviously some people don't want to
>>> work with them for whatever-reasons and THAT actually is important.
>>> And, the reasons are important too.  Have you wondered why...?  I do!
>>> As a small business owner, when I hear such-and-such doesn't want to
>>> work with so-and-so, I immediately want to ask "What happened"?  From
>>> what the email traffic looks like, it seems like you may have to worry
>>> about legal action for everything you say or do around them or, maybe
>>> there was some pre-election history that most of the people that voted
>>> for them, didn't know about.  I have no clue, but this all does make
>>> me wonder.
>>>
>>> Either way, it seems like the state of things right now is Much Worst
>>> than it was prior-to the last election, so... Not sure why anyone
>>> would want more of this.  For me, the socio-political environment is
>>> just as important as the engi-nerding portion..  At the very least,
>>> BOD members need to be promoting the organization they are on the
>>> board of and noone should have to worry about legal retaliation over
>>> every little thing.
>>>
>>> Joseph Armbruster
>>> KJ4JIO
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 3:58 PM Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB
>>> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>> If you care about the AMSAT organization continuing to help hams in
>> space communications, please read and reread Patrick's and Michelle's
>> explanations.  They layout exactly what happened. Now we learn that the
>> expenditure is over 16k. That is 363 memberships, if this retired
>> engineer's math is correct. This is money wasted to beat down two members
>> who want transparency and progress. This was not right. Our money was
>> wasted! I am anxious for the election.
>>>> Again, I ask that members do not resign over this. That helps nobody
>> and hurts out hobby, which has already taken a huge hit. Solve this with
>> your voting privilege.
>>>> 73 Brad KC9UQR
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of AMSAT-NA.
>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From framirezferrer at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 01:38:09 2020
From: framirezferrer at gmail.com (Fernando Ramirez)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 18:38:09 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <5FABA837-46AC-4E9D-85F7-1E6A49F96971@mac.com>
References: <mailman.6576.1594584791.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<2F4AE276-5D64-46F1-8FCD-5FB49F48835F@mac.com>
	<CAGHXx8jkdXOXHK6QTnaPqp9YXDQ3XLUyKnVMwQj5Pk8c-9-qUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABzOSOoD6zoOWZt57fD6MN5v1cqa9LuYmsWjhf0FgwgayvtSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5FABA837-46AC-4E9D-85F7-1E6A49F96971@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAGHXx8h4HGV52_iV66TGYHS4D0OXbQ6paWedid7f5kQ5C0N-AQ@mail.gmail.com>

My memory is hazy but I kind of remember seeing something about publishing
a text without giving prior credit to the author. Also remember you asking
an AMSAT officer if he was talking to you as an individual or as a
representative from the organization.  Fishing for another lawsuit threat?

"Patrick collaborated creating an obscene, defamatory
Web site for a short while, then, apparently lost interest". Can you
provide us more info on this? That's a serious allegation, specially coming
from someone who signs on QRZ as an AMSAT Ambassador.

And talking about that... Please make sure you update your presentation
with information provided by the program in regards to operating and
etiquette. Next time you start calling other "units" over the air, not only
you will be the laughingstock but the organization as well.

Be well,

KF7R


On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 5:14 PM Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> >> ? Did the organization spend money when you literally threaten them
> with litigation?
>
> My problem was never with AMSAT-NA. It was one of their volunteers - ?EWK
> - who was accusing me
> of plagiarism, of otherwise being dishonest, and his additional libelous,
> published statements intended
> to damage my reputation.
>
> Legal recourse? It would have taken a lot of money for me to initiate
> formal litigation. But that was never
> my intent. I knew as soon as the AMSAT-NA board saw how close they were to
> becoming involved in
> such a case, they would rein in the threat. Patrick collaborated creating
> an obscene, defamatory
> Web site for a short while, then, apparently lost interest.
>
> My ?cease and desist? letter achieved its intended result, as far as I am
> concerned.
>
> Clint Bradford K6LCS
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From chad.kg0mw at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 01:54:30 2020
From: chad.kg0mw at gmail.com (Chad KG0MW)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 01:54:30 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c8eeEfCHORcgar3C3AXxGaTuJkLWb3yMkT3FHcpv1ENWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1712165007.494111.1594583328598.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1712165007.494111.1594583328598@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CADkz4c8eeEfCHORcgar3C3AXxGaTuJkLWb3yMkT3FHcpv1ENWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CH2PR12MB38930FA8A6FAEA2AAABBA3BDA9600@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

Joseph you are right. As much as the BoD needs to promote AMSAT, we as members need to stand up promote AMSAT and show our support. The more support we show, hopefully the sooner we can get back to actual constructive conversation.

Chad


?On 7/12/20, 4:22 PM, "AMSAT-BB on behalf of Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org on behalf of amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

    Brad,

    What transparency and progress has been brought to the organization
    from the members that you speak of?  Specifically?  It appears that
    since they were voted in, everyone in the organization is now walking
    on egg-shells. The BB is now plastered with emails asking which words
    mean what feelings, name calling and chasing after the organization
    using whatever legal means the wizards-of-smart can conjure up all in
    the name of almighty, all-righeous, '''transparency'''. It all seems
    rather insincere and unproductive to me.  People like this should do
    the organization a favor, and leave, run their own competing
    organization and take whatever people and dollars happen to follow
    them.

    I would honestly like to return to the ARISSat-1 days, where it was
    just full-speed-ahead engineering and not all this talk all about
    'saving AMSAT' and ORI garbage.  All this ORI promotion on the BB, is
    absolute garbage.  No rational AMSAT member should be OK with that,
    especially from an AMSAT BOD member.  ORI is a separate, competing
    organization and their bylaws are..... telling.  If AMSATs bylaws were
    ever amended to be anything like those, you can kiss your membership
    goodbye, ref: https://openresearch.institute/organization-documents.
    Their bylaws literally say "Membership shall consist of the Board of
    Directors.".  Quite an Open organization, indeed!

    But I digress... The more of these kinds of people you vote in, the
    more the organization is going to be hurt, guaranteed. Because not
    only is nothing going to get done, obviously some people don't want to
    work with them for whatever-reasons and THAT actually is important.
    And, the reasons are important too.  Have you wondered why...?  I do!
    As a small business owner, when I hear such-and-such doesn't want to
    work with so-and-so, I immediately want to ask "What happened"?  From
    what the email traffic looks like, it seems like you may have to worry
    about legal action for everything you say or do around them or, maybe
    there was some pre-election history that most of the people that voted
    for them, didn't know about.  I have no clue, but this all does make
    me wonder.

    Either way, it seems like the state of things right now is Much Worst
    than it was prior-to the last election, so... Not sure why anyone
    would want more of this.  For me, the socio-political environment is
    just as important as the engi-nerding portion..  At the very least,
    BOD members need to be promoting the organization they are on the
    board of and noone should have to worry about legal retaliation over
    every little thing.

    Joseph Armbruster
    KJ4JIO

    On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 3:58 PM Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB
    <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
    >
    > If you care about the AMSAT organization continuing to help hams in space communications, please read and reread Patrick's and Michelle's explanations.  They layout exactly what happened. Now we learn that the expenditure is over 16k. That is 363 memberships, if this retired engineer's math is correct. This is money wasted to beat down two members who want transparency and progress. This was not right. Our money was wasted! I am anxious for the election.
    >
    > Again, I ask that members do not resign over this. That helps nobody and hurts out hobby, which has already taken a huge hit. Solve this with your voting privilege.
    >
    > 73 Brad KC9UQR
    > _______________________________________________
    > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
    > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
    > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
    > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
    > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
    _______________________________________________
    Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
    to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
    are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
    Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
    Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From tnetcenter at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 02:01:42 2020
From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 19:01:42 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <483ee974-9307-6c99-3e20-10864dc59972@gmail.com>
References: <1712165007.494111.1594583328598.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1712165007.494111.1594583328598@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CADkz4c8eeEfCHORcgar3C3AXxGaTuJkLWb3yMkT3FHcpv1ENWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<B56205F9-8D49-470B-88FC-BEE714A42F85@gmail.com>
	<CALx_moTsf3Hgy7FkF7xr+89Cs3sNuJtWnB8axXePrXVggP-73Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<483ee974-9307-6c99-3e20-10864dc59972@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALx_moS7uFvAC7qMjpiB0+Y6ju4L+r3Oxi+3XPZq1gxpPa=gBQ@mail.gmail.com>

Wow!    Based on that and the general discussion that has been public on
this forum, I'd say AMSAT is doomed!!!  At least AMSAT-NA is.

The email makes it pretty clear in the first 2 sentences what this is all
about!!   The board members being outed by the 2 whistleblowers are trying
to deflect the blame from themselves to the 2 raising the issues by stating
that the entire organization is under attack!!!    I don't see the entire
organization being attacked at all   I see 2 board members raising serious
concerns about the behavior of the rest of the board and saying that there
is a problem!!  They are being attacked by those board members and their
supporters - OFFICIALLY!!.

Time for a disinterested 3rd party to investigate the whole mess and let
the rest of us know just exactly what is really going on with this obvious
power struggle!!!

IT'S PAST TIME FOR COOLER HEADS TO PREVAIL!

I'd suggest making that happen while you still can, or kiss the
organization goodbye.

It would be a real shame to see AMSAT-NA go under because of petty
disagreements over alleged misconduct between board members.  With money
involved, it is really easy to go too far especially after some board
members hire lawyers(at the expense of the organization) to attack those
asking serious questions!

To be blunt:   GET OVER YOURSELVES AND GET BACK TO DOING WHAT YOU ARE
SUPPOSED TO BE DOING - RUNNING AMSAT-NA!!   Not running it into the ground
which is where it is heading tonight!

7  3
Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY



On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 6:28 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Since you are not a member Jeff you would not have received the email
> that we all did clearly stating that there was no unauthorized spending.
>
> You can read it here...
>
>
> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
>
> Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>
> On 7/12/2020 4:12 PM, Jeff Moore via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > You don't cover up unauthorized spending and you don't spend money you
> > aren't cleared to spend!   Let the parties involved explain this
> thoroughly
> > or have an independent  3rd party do so!  Either way, we are all due the
> > facts, not conjecture, and character support statements!   LET THE FACTS
> > SPEAK TO THE SITUATION NOT OPINIONS!!
> >
> > 7  3
> > Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 3:51 PM Chad KG0MW via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I did read and do not believe what they are accusing the board of. I
> feel
> >> I know that board members well enough to put my support behind them. I
> have
> >> never met anyone involved with AMSAT that wanted to hurt the
> organization
> >> in any way. To say they misspent the money I feel is wrong. They did so
> to
> >> protect the organization. Sadly lawyers are not cheap and the money had
> to
> >> be spent. The accusations is what will tear us at the seams?
> >>
> >> chad
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Chad Phillips
> >> KG0MW
> >> Amsat Ambassador
> >> www.kg0mw.com
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Jul 12, 2020, at 4:03 PM, Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <
> >> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>> Brad,
> >>>
> >>> What transparency and progress has been brought to the organization
> >>> from the members that you speak of?  Specifically?  It appears that
> >>> since they were voted in, everyone in the organization is now walking
> >>> on egg-shells. The BB is now plastered with emails asking which words
> >>> mean what feelings, name calling and chasing after the organization
> >>> using whatever legal means the wizards-of-smart can conjure up all in
> >>> the name of almighty, all-righeous, '''transparency'''. It all seems
> >>> rather insincere and unproductive to me.  People like this should do
> >>> the organization a favor, and leave, run their own competing
> >>> organization and take whatever people and dollars happen to follow
> >>> them.
> >>>
> >>> I would honestly like to return to the ARISSat-1 days, where it was
> >>> just full-speed-ahead engineering and not all this talk all about
> >>> 'saving AMSAT' and ORI garbage.  All this ORI promotion on the BB, is
> >>> absolute garbage.  No rational AMSAT member should be OK with that,
> >>> especially from an AMSAT BOD member.  ORI is a separate, competing
> >>> organization and their bylaws are..... telling.  If AMSATs bylaws were
> >>> ever amended to be anything like those, you can kiss your membership
> >>> goodbye, ref: https://openresearch.institute/organization-documents.
> >>> Their bylaws literally say "Membership shall consist of the Board of
> >>> Directors.".  Quite an Open organization, indeed!
> >>>
> >>> But I digress... The more of these kinds of people you vote in, the
> >>> more the organization is going to be hurt, guaranteed. Because not
> >>> only is nothing going to get done, obviously some people don't want to
> >>> work with them for whatever-reasons and THAT actually is important.
> >>> And, the reasons are important too.  Have you wondered why...?  I do!
> >>> As a small business owner, when I hear such-and-such doesn't want to
> >>> work with so-and-so, I immediately want to ask "What happened"?  From
> >>> what the email traffic looks like, it seems like you may have to worry
> >>> about legal action for everything you say or do around them or, maybe
> >>> there was some pre-election history that most of the people that voted
> >>> for them, didn't know about.  I have no clue, but this all does make
> >>> me wonder.
> >>>
> >>> Either way, it seems like the state of things right now is Much Worst
> >>> than it was prior-to the last election, so... Not sure why anyone
> >>> would want more of this.  For me, the socio-political environment is
> >>> just as important as the engi-nerding portion..  At the very least,
> >>> BOD members need to be promoting the organization they are on the
> >>> board of and noone should have to worry about legal retaliation over
> >>> every little thing.
> >>>
> >>> Joseph Armbruster
> >>> KJ4JIO
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 3:58 PM Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB
> >>> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>>> If you care about the AMSAT organization continuing to help hams in
> >> space communications, please read and reread Patrick's and Michelle's
> >> explanations.  They layout exactly what happened. Now we learn that the
> >> expenditure is over 16k. That is 363 memberships, if this retired
> >> engineer's math is correct. This is money wasted to beat down two
> members
> >> who want transparency and progress. This was not right. Our money was
> >> wasted! I am anxious for the election.
> >>>> Again, I ask that members do not resign over this. That helps nobody
> >> and hurts out hobby, which has already taken a huge hit. Solve this with
> >> your voting privilege.
> >>>> 73 Brad KC9UQR
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions expressed
> >>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> >> of AMSAT-NA.
> >>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >> program!
> >>>> Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions expressed
> >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> >> AMSAT-NA.
> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >> program!
> >>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> >> expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> >> AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From wa7fwf at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 02:03:41 2020
From: wa7fwf at gmail.com (Kevin)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 19:03:41 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
Message-ID: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>

 ?Hello All,

 ? In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we all 
received as members.

https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf

I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed before.

"AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to 
Open Research Institute."

 ?? Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a serious 
breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?? 
was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say 
"out in the wind"?

Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how 
ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something 
that was procured online?

AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it 
found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in 
the future.


I look forward to an answer

73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623







From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 02:05:16 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 19:05:16 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Good news - Floating Vivado license available for
	community use
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2XWs7Xb4JEd5FVXVr=qw4OVCf_bmO8vuCw46PTrbKbN9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2XWs7Xb4JEd5FVXVr=qw4OVCf_bmO8vuCw46PTrbKbN9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2Vx2muxmTEFG6Recuxc40gNAoqdnM6u=PHiNT6BTd5PEA@mail.gmail.com>

Rounded up another node locked license for a total of three.

-mdt

On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 14:19 Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Good news - if  you are working on open source amateur radio satellite
> FPGA code, we have a resource available for you.
>
> Thanks to Yasme Foundation and ARRL Foundation support, Open Research
> Institute has purchased a floating Vivado license (Vivado HL System
> Edition). This includes the System Generator for DSP.
>
> The only requirement is that the work be open source and publicly
> accessible.
>
> The license files are distributed through a Github key management
> function, so if you already have a GitHub repository, then you are ready to
> go. Get in touch with me with your GitHub account name to start setup.
>
> The process has been tested but I'm sure some snags will be revealed as
> more users come onboard.
>
> If you are working on AMSAT-NA closed source FPGA work, then there are at
> least two older node-locked Vivado licenses available. You should already
> have access to those from within engineering.
>
> There's a lot of really great opportunities to implement LDPC and other
> high-performance error correcting codes, along with finite state machines
> and camera support.
>
> Does anyone have a need for another type of license? If there is something
> standing in your way of getting things done, please let me know.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>

From daron at wilson.org  Mon Jul 13 02:27:24 2020
From: daron at wilson.org (Daron Wilson)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 19:27:24 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <CALx_moS7uFvAC7qMjpiB0+Y6ju4L+r3Oxi+3XPZq1gxpPa=gBQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1712165007.494111.1594583328598.ref@mail.yahoo.com>	<1712165007.494111.1594583328598@mail.yahoo.com>	<CADkz4c8eeEfCHORcgar3C3AXxGaTuJkLWb3yMkT3FHcpv1ENWQ@mail.gmail.com>	<B56205F9-8D49-470B-88FC-BEE714A42F85@gmail.com>	<CALx_moTsf3Hgy7FkF7xr+89Cs3sNuJtWnB8axXePrXVggP-73Q@mail.gmail.com>	<483ee974-9307-6c99-3e20-10864dc59972@gmail.com>
	<CALx_moS7uFvAC7qMjpiB0+Y6ju4L+r3Oxi+3XPZq1gxpPa=gBQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00b501d658bd$26119cc0$7234d640$@org>

Is there a bulletin board that discusses amateur radio satellites operations still?   Asking for a friend.  This is getting old.

Daron N7HQR

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Moore via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 7:02 PM
To: Kevin
Cc: Amsat BB
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read

Wow!    Based on that and the general discussion that has been public on
this forum, I'd say AMSAT is doomed!!!  At least AMSAT-NA is.

The email makes it pretty clear in the first 2 sentences what this is all
about!!   The board members being outed by the 2 whistleblowers are trying
to deflect the blame from themselves to the 2 raising the issues by stating
that the entire organization is under attack!!!    I don't see the entire
organization being attacked at all   I see 2 board members raising serious
concerns about the behavior of the rest of the board and saying that there
is a problem!!  They are being attacked by those board members and their
supporters - OFFICIALLY!!.

Time for a disinterested 3rd party to investigate the whole mess and let
the rest of us know just exactly what is really going on with this obvious
power struggle!!!

IT'S PAST TIME FOR COOLER HEADS TO PREVAIL!

I'd suggest making that happen while you still can, or kiss the
organization goodbye.

It would be a real shame to see AMSAT-NA go under because of petty
disagreements over alleged misconduct between board members.  With money
involved, it is really easy to go too far especially after some board
members hire lawyers(at the expense of the organization) to attack those
asking serious questions!

To be blunt:   GET OVER YOURSELVES AND GET BACK TO DOING WHAT YOU ARE
SUPPOSED TO BE DOING - RUNNING AMSAT-NA!!   Not running it into the ground
which is where it is heading tonight!

7  3
Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY



On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 6:28 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Since you are not a member Jeff you would not have received the email
> that we all did clearly stating that there was no unauthorized spending.
>
> You can read it here...
>
>
> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
>
> Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>
> On 7/12/2020 4:12 PM, Jeff Moore via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > You don't cover up unauthorized spending and you don't spend money you
> > aren't cleared to spend!   Let the parties involved explain this
> thoroughly
> > or have an independent  3rd party do so!  Either way, we are all due the
> > facts, not conjecture, and character support statements!   LET THE FACTS
> > SPEAK TO THE SITUATION NOT OPINIONS!!
> >
> > 7  3
> > Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 3:51 PM Chad KG0MW via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I did read and do not believe what they are accusing the board of. I
> feel
> >> I know that board members well enough to put my support behind them. I
> have
> >> never met anyone involved with AMSAT that wanted to hurt the
> organization
> >> in any way. To say they misspent the money I feel is wrong. They did so
> to
> >> protect the organization. Sadly lawyers are not cheap and the money had
> to
> >> be spent. The accusations is what will tear us at the seams?
> >>
> >> chad
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Chad Phillips
> >> KG0MW
> >> Amsat Ambassador
> >> www.kg0mw.com
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Jul 12, 2020, at 4:03 PM, Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <
> >> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>> Brad,
> >>>
> >>> What transparency and progress has been brought to the organization
> >>> from the members that you speak of?  Specifically?  It appears that
> >>> since they were voted in, everyone in the organization is now walking
> >>> on egg-shells. The BB is now plastered with emails asking which words
> >>> mean what feelings, name calling and chasing after the organization
> >>> using whatever legal means the wizards-of-smart can conjure up all in
> >>> the name of almighty, all-righeous, '''transparency'''. It all seems
> >>> rather insincere and unproductive to me.  People like this should do
> >>> the organization a favor, and leave, run their own competing
> >>> organization and take whatever people and dollars happen to follow
> >>> them.
> >>>
> >>> I would honestly like to return to the ARISSat-1 days, where it was
> >>> just full-speed-ahead engineering and not all this talk all about
> >>> 'saving AMSAT' and ORI garbage.  All this ORI promotion on the BB, is
> >>> absolute garbage.  No rational AMSAT member should be OK with that,
> >>> especially from an AMSAT BOD member.  ORI is a separate, competing
> >>> organization and their bylaws are..... telling.  If AMSATs bylaws were
> >>> ever amended to be anything like those, you can kiss your membership
> >>> goodbye, ref: https://openresearch.institute/organization-documents.
> >>> Their bylaws literally say "Membership shall consist of the Board of
> >>> Directors.".  Quite an Open organization, indeed!
> >>>
> >>> But I digress... The more of these kinds of people you vote in, the
> >>> more the organization is going to be hurt, guaranteed. Because not
> >>> only is nothing going to get done, obviously some people don't want to
> >>> work with them for whatever-reasons and THAT actually is important.
> >>> And, the reasons are important too.  Have you wondered why...?  I do!
> >>> As a small business owner, when I hear such-and-such doesn't want to
> >>> work with so-and-so, I immediately want to ask "What happened"?  From
> >>> what the email traffic looks like, it seems like you may have to worry
> >>> about legal action for everything you say or do around them or, maybe
> >>> there was some pre-election history that most of the people that voted
> >>> for them, didn't know about.  I have no clue, but this all does make
> >>> me wonder.
> >>>
> >>> Either way, it seems like the state of things right now is Much Worst
> >>> than it was prior-to the last election, so... Not sure why anyone
> >>> would want more of this.  For me, the socio-political environment is
> >>> just as important as the engi-nerding portion..  At the very least,
> >>> BOD members need to be promoting the organization they are on the
> >>> board of and noone should have to worry about legal retaliation over
> >>> every little thing.
> >>>
> >>> Joseph Armbruster
> >>> KJ4JIO
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 3:58 PM Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB
> >>> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>>> If you care about the AMSAT organization continuing to help hams in
> >> space communications, please read and reread Patrick's and Michelle's
> >> explanations.  They layout exactly what happened. Now we learn that the
> >> expenditure is over 16k. That is 363 memberships, if this retired
> >> engineer's math is correct. This is money wasted to beat down two
> members
> >> who want transparency and progress. This was not right. Our money was
> >> wasted! I am anxious for the election.
> >>>> Again, I ask that members do not resign over this. That helps nobody
> >> and hurts out hobby, which has already taken a huge hit. Solve this with
> >> your voting privilege.
> >>>> 73 Brad KC9UQR
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions expressed
> >>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> >> of AMSAT-NA.
> >>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >> program!
> >>>> Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions expressed
> >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> >> AMSAT-NA.
> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >> program!
> >>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> >> expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> >> AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From nna6us at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 02:57:32 2020
From: nna6us at gmail.com (Dwayne Sinclair)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 19:57:32 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Non Profits and Boards
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6592.1594599489.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.6592.1594599489.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <B2BD0593-4024-4A8C-BFBE-A72E7C53DBE3@gmail.com>

Disappointed to say the least with both board and membership. I have have been a board member on a number of non profits and my wife is currently an executive director of a non profit. In the non profits my wife and I have been involved with, legal and accounting fees are a ?normal?
 course of doing business and don't require all the board or membership to approve. If board members are creating situation that require a legal response then that just plain sucks but is ?normal?. Better to have a board that can work together but it appears this is currently not the case. Personally I am satisfied with the official response. 

Dwayne NA6US.

From mat_62 at charter.net  Mon Jul 13 03:21:42 2020
From: mat_62 at charter.net (Michael Tondee)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 23:21:42 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Testing
Message-ID: <19c6fd82-7965-23e1-0553-3f27506ba622@charter.net>

I'm sorry but I? don't see where my last post ever got through. Pretty 
sure it was sent to the right place but I never saw it show up. Hmnn, 
wonder why... too critical? At any rate, not a member but reading all 
the mud being slung at two board members, who for the most part just 
seemed to have asked for some board accountability, this sure looks like 
a classic case of? the kids getting caught with their hand in the 
proverbial cookie jar and they're now scurrying to cover it up from 
Mom&Dad. Sigh....

73,

Michael, W4HIJ


From w3ab at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 13 03:33:28 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 20:33:28 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Non Profits and Boards
In-Reply-To: <B2BD0593-4024-4A8C-BFBE-A72E7C53DBE3@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6592.1594599489.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<B2BD0593-4024-4A8C-BFBE-A72E7C53DBE3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cdead1a6-a683-4af9-a92c-8d3083e8d5f4@yahoo.com>

Now it gets even better.

Who is NA6US? Dwayne Sinclair? Didn't come up on qrz.com.

Why was this posted under 

MICHAEL A TONDEE, W4HIJ's name?


?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 12, 2020, 20:06, at 20:06, Dwayne Sinclair via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>Disappointed to say the least with both board and membership. I have
>have been a board member on a number of non profits and my wife is
>currently an executive director of a non profit. In the non profits my
>wife and I have been involved with, legal and accounting fees are a
>?normal?
>course of doing business and don't require all the board or membership
>to approve. If board members are creating situation that require a
>legal response then that just plain sucks but is ?normal?. Better to
>have a board that can work together but it appears this is currently
>not the case. Personally I am satisfied with the official response. 
>
>Dwayne NA6US.
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From nna6us at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 03:37:23 2020
From: nna6us at gmail.com (Dwayne Sinclair)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 20:37:23 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Non Profits and Boards
In-Reply-To: <cdead1a6-a683-4af9-a92c-8d3083e8d5f4@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.6592.1594599489.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<B2BD0593-4024-4A8C-BFBE-A72E7C53DBE3@gmail.com>
	<cdead1a6-a683-4af9-a92c-8d3083e8d5f4@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AB08D273-9018-4734-B8B4-0251372AFEC5@gmail.com>

I?m not on QRZ. Hamqth qrzcw, lots, club log, or FCC. I asked QRZ to delete my online account and instead, they left my account (I can still login), but deleted my callsign lookup.

Regards Dwayne NA6US




> On Jul 12, 2020, at 8:33 PM, W3AB/GEO <w3ab at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Now it gets even better.
> 
> Who is NA6US? Dwayne Sinclair? Didn't come up on qrz.com <http://qrz.com/>.
> 
> Why was this posted under 
> 
> MICHAEL A TONDEE, W4HIJ's name?
> 
> 
> ___
> Sent from my two way wrist watch
> 73 de W3AB/GEO
> On Jul 12, 2020, at 20:06, Dwayne Sinclair via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>> wrote:
> Disappointed to say the least with both board and membership. I have have been a board member on a number of non profits and my wife is currently an executive director of a non profit. In the non profits my wife and I have been involved with, legal and accounting fees are a ?normal?
>  course of doing business and don't require all the board or membership to approve. If board members are creating situation that require a legal response then that just plain sucks but is ?normal?. Better to have a board that can work together but it appears this is currently not the case. Personally I am satisfied with the official response. 
> 
> Dwayne NA6US.
> 
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb <https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb>


From tnetcenter at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 03:42:14 2020
From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 20:42:14 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Testing
In-Reply-To: <19c6fd82-7965-23e1-0553-3f27506ba622@charter.net>
References: <19c6fd82-7965-23e1-0553-3f27506ba622@charter.net>
Message-ID: <CALx_moT1DPKk5Zr+rLt54Rm9Zdy=yyonjHa0JQ2NTcNy4R4X9A@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with this assessment of the situation with one exception!!

AMSAT-NA is not a cookie jar, and these are not kids!!!  IF in fact there
is some legal liability here - then the responsible parties should be held
accountable!!  If that means prison time - then so be it!!!  A thief is a
thief and theft is illegal - let the chips fall where they should!!!

The LAST thing that should happen here is pillorying the whistleblowers
assuming they are correct and without liability here!

7  3
Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY



On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 8:22 PM Michael Tondee via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I'm sorry but I  don't see where my last post ever got through. Pretty
> sure it was sent to the right place but I never saw it show up. Hmnn,
> wonder why... too critical? At any rate, not a member but reading all
> the mud being slung at two board members, who for the most part just
> seemed to have asked for some board accountability, this sure looks like
> a classic case of  the kids getting caught with their hand in the
> proverbial cookie jar and they're now scurrying to cover it up from
> Mom&Dad. Sigh....
>
> 73,
>
> Michael, W4HIJ
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From marinesvcs at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 04:09:45 2020
From: marinesvcs at gmail.com (Paul F. Merrill)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 21:09:45 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6595.1594607750.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.6595.1594607750.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <CAM42373tYrrqGbg3e82LWVzvTMa468eG08Jy7taBdxVUN_Px-w@mail.gmail.com>

I agree that this mailing list has strayed from its strongest contribution:
satellite information, discussion, and mentoring.

I come from, and have been on the BOD of, a professional organization for a
number of years now.

FWIW, I know too well that an organization often lawyers up to protect
itself, and in our issues, our attorney was engaged to act solely on behalf
of the Organization and not necessarily current management.

This thread has turned in to a long, ugly diatribe filled with accusations,
counter-accusations, and painfully-obvious shills.  I am a recently-renewed
member who doesn?t have a dog in the fight, so I just want what?s best for
AMSAT.

Sadly, the stereotypes are starting to show - the members who contribute
nothing but want to tear down those ?In power,? the members who contribute
nothing and don?t want anyone to make waves, and the few who actually do
anything.  As a number of people have commented, working in a non-profit or
unpaid leadership role is utterly thankless, which is lost on many people -
especially those who have never labored in this sort of endeavor.

My favorite story from our times of trouble is when our Parliamentarian
said, ?Roberts Rules are the last refuge of a scoundrel.  Grown men and
women should be able to comport themselves reasonably...but then I?d be out
of a job.?   I?m taking a little license with his exact words, but the
sentiment, along with my experience, formed my native distrust of those who
are right and everyone and everything before them is wrong.  So...there?s
my bias.  I will examine that, and all the information I can before I
vote.  I hope everyone else will take the time and expend the effort to
vote as intelligently as they can.

My overriding guidance to my Association is that we contribute to the group
so that we all benefit from the group.  A strong organization should
outlive us.

Personally, I can?t wait to vote and hopefully put a fork in this.

Paul / W7IV



????????-

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 19:27:24 -0700
From: "Daron Wilson" <daron at wilson.org>
To: "'AMSAT BB'" <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
Message-ID: <00b501d658bd$26119cc0$7234d640$@org>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="utf-8"

Is there a bulletin board that discusses amateur radio satellites
operations still?   Asking for a friend.  This is getting old.


Daron N7HQR

From wa7fwf at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 04:29:11 2020
From: wa7fwf at gmail.com (Kevin)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 21:29:11 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOskn_hhT4MpdhwQ2-nz7P44u+SUVuYvr-PYd7P8k3-ARw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOs5TwZuN=-A_Rb39LAONtQHzX3i36efp-_RVeCdGyFnUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6971fd85-2135-85a0-3ade-3c7a36352d47@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOskn_hhT4MpdhwQ2-nz7P44u+SUVuYvr-PYd7P8k3-ARw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <34b9e74a-7626-8ae0-a371-c3675f951b7c@gmail.com>

Bruce,
 ?? So hang on a moment, you're telling me that the candidates are 
allowed to use the mailing list for their campaign (fine), but rather 
than them doing it themselves they turned the task over to you? So you 
were in possession of the mailing list and then you turned it over to 
the bulk mailing center when you authored the mailer?

Kevin WA7FWF #19623







On 7/12/2020 9:08 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
> The candidates are allowed the use of the mailing list for their 
> campaign. If you read the bylaws, they make it very clear. One of the 
> candidates did all of the handling of the mailing list.
>
> Incidentally, the board was not aware that they had to give the 
> mailing list to the candidates. This was something the candidates had 
> to tell them, after I read the bylaws. Had the board run things the 
> way they desired, only a board controlled 200 word statement would 
> have reached you from the candidates, except for the incumbents, who 
> have had free use of AMSAT's official publications to carry their 
> opinions.
>
> In a more perfect world, the board would have known their own bylaws, 
> or at least the secretary who was running the election would have read 
> them.
>
> But in a more perfect world, two people were trying to reform the 
> organization with not face quite this uphill a battle.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bruce
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:00 PM Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com 
> <mailto:wa7fwf at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Well how did the bulk mailing company get the AMSAT member mailing
>     list if AMSAT did not provide it?
>
>     Kevin
>
>
>     On 7/12/2020 8:32 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
>>     The mailing list was never compromised. But my HOME address,
>>     under "Open Research Institute" was used as the return address.
>>     This was a mistake and I didn't ask for it. I was, however, the
>>     author of the mailer, in which I introduced the candidates. The
>>     mailing was done by a bulk Mail company and did not involve me. I
>>     got one returned letter, informed someone responsible who had a
>>     right to see that address, and promptly forgot it.
>>
>>     Thanks
>>
>>     Bruce
>>
>>     On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 7:11 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB
>>     <amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>> wrote:
>>
>>         ??Hello All,
>>
>>         ?? In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the
>>         letter we all
>>         received as members.
>>
>>         https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
>>
>>         I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had
>>         missed before.
>>
>>         "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing
>>         addresses to
>>         Open Research Institute."
>>
>>         ??? Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems
>>         like a serious
>>         breech of security, was this a hack? was any other
>>         information lost?
>>         was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as
>>         they say
>>         "out in the wind"?
>>
>>         Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and
>>         backtrack how
>>         ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it
>>         something
>>         that was procured online?
>>
>>         AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report
>>         back what it
>>         found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from
>>         happening in
>>         the future.
>>
>>
>>         I look forward to an answer
>>
>>         73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>.
>>         AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>         to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
>>         membership. Opinions expressed
>>         are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
>>         official views of AMSAT-NA.
>>         Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
>>         satellite program!
>>         Subscription settings:
>>         https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>


From ve3hls at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 04:40:17 2020
From: ve3hls at gmail.com (Kenneth P Alexander)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 11:40:17 +0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <CH2PR12MB38930FA8A6FAEA2AAABBA3BDA9600@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <1712165007.494111.1594583328598.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1712165007.494111.1594583328598@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CADkz4c8eeEfCHORcgar3C3AXxGaTuJkLWb3yMkT3FHcpv1ENWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CH2PR12MB38930FA8A6FAEA2AAABBA3BDA9600@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAPOM0dm1zQwE6puntpn8=gsO3rvWsurEq8XodVvkHsQH2=9WGQ@mail.gmail.com>

Sure Chad,

I'll consider supporting Amsat again as soon as this mess is cleaned up and
everyone is satisfied with the outcome, whichever way it goes.

Ken, VE3HLS
So Phisai, Thailand
Blog:  bueng-ken.com

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 08:58 Chad KG0MW via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Joseph you are right. As much as the BoD needs to promote AMSAT, we as
> members need to stand up promote AMSAT and show our support. The more
> support we show, hopefully the sooner we can get back to actual
> constructive conversation.
>
> Chad
>
>
> ?On 7/12/20, 4:22 PM, "AMSAT-BB on behalf of Joseph Armbruster via
> AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org on behalf of amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
>     Brad,
>
>     What transparency and progress has been brought to the organization
>     from the members that you speak of?  Specifically?  It appears that
>     since they were voted in, everyone in the organization is now walking
>     on egg-shells. The BB is now plastered with emails asking which words
>     mean what feelings, name calling and chasing after the organization
>     using whatever legal means the wizards-of-smart can conjure up all in
>     the name of almighty, all-righeous, '''transparency'''. It all seems
>     rather insincere and unproductive to me.  People like this should do
>     the organization a favor, and leave, run their own competing
>     organization and take whatever people and dollars happen to follow
>     them.
>
>     I would honestly like to return to the ARISSat-1 days, where it was
>     just full-speed-ahead engineering and not all this talk all about
>     'saving AMSAT' and ORI garbage.  All this ORI promotion on the BB, is
>     absolute garbage.  No rational AMSAT member should be OK with that,
>     especially from an AMSAT BOD member.  ORI is a separate, competing
>     organization and their bylaws are..... telling.  If AMSATs bylaws were
>     ever amended to be anything like those, you can kiss your membership
>     goodbye, ref: https://openresearch.institute/organization-documents.
>     Their bylaws literally say "Membership shall consist of the Board of
>     Directors.".  Quite an Open organization, indeed!
>
>     But I digress... The more of these kinds of people you vote in, the
>     more the organization is going to be hurt, guaranteed. Because not
>     only is nothing going to get done, obviously some people don't want to
>     work with them for whatever-reasons and THAT actually is important.
>     And, the reasons are important too.  Have you wondered why...?  I do!
>     As a small business owner, when I hear such-and-such doesn't want to
>     work with so-and-so, I immediately want to ask "What happened"?  From
>     what the email traffic looks like, it seems like you may have to worry
>     about legal action for everything you say or do around them or, maybe
>     there was some pre-election history that most of the people that voted
>     for them, didn't know about.  I have no clue, but this all does make
>     me wonder.
>
>     Either way, it seems like the state of things right now is Much Worst
>     than it was prior-to the last election, so... Not sure why anyone
>     would want more of this.  For me, the socio-political environment is
>     just as important as the engi-nerding portion..  At the very least,
>     BOD members need to be promoting the organization they are on the
>     board of and noone should have to worry about legal retaliation over
>     every little thing.
>
>     Joseph Armbruster
>     KJ4JIO
>
>     On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 3:58 PM Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB
>     <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>     >
>     > If you care about the AMSAT organization continuing to help hams in
> space communications, please read and reread Patrick's and Michelle's
> explanations.  They layout exactly what happened. Now we learn that the
> expenditure is over 16k. That is 363 memberships, if this retired
> engineer's math is correct. This is money wasted to beat down two members
> who want transparency and progress. This was not right. Our money was
> wasted! I am anxious for the election.
>     >
>     > Again, I ask that members do not resign over this. That helps nobody
> and hurts out hobby, which has already taken a huge hit. Solve this with
> your voting privilege.
>     >
>     > 73 Brad KC9UQR
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
>     > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
>     > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of AMSAT-NA.
>     > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
>     > Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>     _______________________________________________
>     Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>     to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
>     are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of AMSAT-NA.
>     Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
>     Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From mat_62 at charter.net  Mon Jul 13 04:50:34 2020
From: mat_62 at charter.net (Michael Tondee)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 00:50:34 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Foolishness
In-Reply-To: <b693c160-67bc-f9a6-457f-77203872d594@charter.net>
References: <b693c160-67bc-f9a6-457f-77203872d594@charter.net>
Message-ID: <3ad2df3f-4471-b714-a817-ed6a637e6165@charter.net>




-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	Re: Foolishness
Date: 	Sun, 12 Jul 2020 15:50:32 -0400
From: 	Michael Tondee <mat_62 at charter.net>
To: 	amsat-bb-request at amsat.org





>> I choose not to support the organization or get involved at present and have not in quite a long while because I don't like the direction it has gone in and see it as stagnant of any real innovation for at least the last ten years. I can guarantee you there are other hams out here like me too. Since I'm no longer a paying member,feel free to disregard my opinion but judging by the conversations I've had with others who feel the way I do, AMSAT may be doing so at it's own peril. Many, many of us are tired of the AMSAT status quo. I'm not even sure that the direction Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard want to take the organization in is one I'd like to go but at least they are trying to do SOMETHING! The comment someone made earlier about a couple of new directors breaking up the "good ole boys club" seems very apropos and I second it. I follow this list faithfully  always looking and hoping that someone wil wake this organization from it's at least  decade long nap! Maybe that's finally happening, I don't know, one can only hope. Not all of us can volunteer, much as some of us would like to but if you show me you're actually doing something besides simply being content to wave antennas at flying FM repeaters you will again receive my financial support. I don't purport to be part of somesort of "silent majority" or anything like that but I do know my view is shared by many. Y'all have a nice day!

73,

Michael W4HIJ

> These satellites don't just build themselves. If you choose not to get
> involved with YOUR organization, then don't post on amsat-bb someday wondering
> why there are no more satellites available for you to "play radio" with.
>
> For some, this may be "just a hobby", for those who volunteer to serve AMSAT
> with their personal time and effort, it is much more than "just a hobby". I
> believe that every volunteer comes to AMSAT to serve the cause of keeping
> amateur radio in space, but may see different ways to move the organization
> forward toward that goal.
>
> There is a Board election coming up very soon. Like all elections, it behooves
> you as a good citizen of AMSAT to be informed of the issues and make a wise
> choice in voting for your elected representatives. As my high school civics
> teacher (and probably yours) said, "if you don't vote, you don't have aright
> to complain".
>
> 73, Dan Schultz N8FGV
>
>


From wa7fwf at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 05:11:56 2020
From: wa7fwf at gmail.com (Kevin)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 22:11:56 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOu-sb=r3bn14TwkT37m_LVhhj+rGrMHM90O0O_nQkjYuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOs5TwZuN=-A_Rb39LAONtQHzX3i36efp-_RVeCdGyFnUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6971fd85-2135-85a0-3ade-3c7a36352d47@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOskn_hhT4MpdhwQ2-nz7P44u+SUVuYvr-PYd7P8k3-ARw@mail.gmail.com>
	<34b9e74a-7626-8ae0-a371-c3675f951b7c@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOu-sb=r3bn14TwkT37m_LVhhj+rGrMHM90O0O_nQkjYuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60901734-65cf-6ad0-c405-1d82f7e31c6e@gmail.com>

Well Bruce,

 ?? Something doesn't jive here,? " I didn't do the mailing . I only 
wrote the content "? then it seems the candidate would have been the 
person that was dealing with the bulk mailer and would have had their 
return address listed and it would not have been your home address on it.

 ?? Guess it's time to pick a different bulk mailer.


Kevin WA7FWF #19623




On 7/12/2020 9:48 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
> Kevin,
>
> No, I never saw the mailing list . I didn't do the mailing . I only 
> wrote the content .
>
> So, why was I involved at all ?
>
> I won't say I'm the best tech evangelist you know, because that is for 
> other people to judge. However, if you count the Open Source movement 
> in software; the campaign for the elimination of the Morse code 
> requirement for Amateur Radio licenses, which among other things I got 
> on the front page of the New York Times, above the fold; My work to 
> help elect a new ARRL board to end the confidentiality versus 
> transparency debacle; And my global appearance for IBM's "Dear Tech", 
> campaign, which got at least 50000 television and Internet airplays;
>
> If you count all those things, I am probably the person you want 
> introducing you as a candidate, and I might be a good person to tell 
> you how to run a campaign.
>
> As it happens I wrote my own campaign, which I was going to put out 
> under my own name, endorsing those candidates. And then the candidates 
> chose to use it as their main campaign statement. This was very 
> flattering and entirely their own choice.
>
> As an ARRL member, it was my right to participate in their election, 
> and it is my right to participate in AMSAT's.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bruce K6BP
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:29 PM Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com 
> <mailto:wa7fwf at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Bruce,
>     ?? So hang on a moment, you're telling me that the candidates are
>     allowed to use the mailing list for their campaign (fine), but
>     rather than them doing it themselves they turned the task over to
>     you? So you were in possession of the mailing list and then you
>     turned it over to the bulk mailing center when you authored the
>     mailer?
>
>     Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>     On 7/12/2020 9:08 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
>>     The candidates are allowed the use of the mailing list for their
>>     campaign. If you read the bylaws, they make it very clear. One of
>>     the candidates did all of the handling of the mailing list.
>>
>>     Incidentally, the board was not aware that they had to give the
>>     mailing list to the candidates. This was something the candidates
>>     had to tell them, after I read the bylaws. Had the board run
>>     things the way they desired, only a board controlled 200 word
>>     statement would have reached you from the candidates, except for
>>     the incumbents, who have had free use of AMSAT's official
>>     publications to carry their opinions.
>>
>>     In a more perfect world, the board would have known their own
>>     bylaws, or at least the secretary who was running the election
>>     would have read them.
>>
>>     But in a more perfect world, two people were trying to reform the
>>     organization with not face quite this uphill a battle.
>>
>>     Thanks
>>
>>     Bruce
>>
>>     On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:00 PM Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com
>>     <mailto:wa7fwf at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         Well how did the bulk mailing company get the AMSAT member
>>         mailing list if AMSAT did not provide it?
>>
>>         Kevin
>>
>>
>>         On 7/12/2020 8:32 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
>>>         The mailing list was never compromised. But my HOME address,
>>>         under "Open Research Institute" was used as the return
>>>         address. This was a mistake and I didn't ask for it. I was,
>>>         however, the author of the mailer, in which I introduced the
>>>         candidates. The mailing was done by a bulk Mail company and
>>>         did not involve me. I got one returned letter, informed
>>>         someone responsible who had a right to see that address, and
>>>         promptly forgot it.
>>>
>>>         Thanks
>>>
>>>         Bruce
>>>
>>>         On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 7:11 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB
>>>         <amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             ??Hello All,
>>>
>>>             ?? In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to
>>>             the letter we all
>>>             received as members.
>>>
>>>             https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
>>>
>>>             I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I
>>>             had missed before.
>>>
>>>             "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing
>>>             addresses to
>>>             Open Research Institute."
>>>
>>>             ??? Just how was our mailing list compromised? This
>>>             seems like a serious
>>>             breech of security, was this a hack? was any other
>>>             information lost?
>>>             was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing
>>>             list as they say
>>>             "out in the wind"?
>>>
>>>             Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and
>>>             backtrack how
>>>             ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was
>>>             it something
>>>             that was procured online?
>>>
>>>             AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and
>>>             report back what it
>>>             found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from
>>>             happening in
>>>             the future.
>>>
>>>
>>>             I look forward to an answer
>>>
>>>             73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>             Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>.
>>>             AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>             to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
>>>             membership. Opinions expressed
>>>             are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
>>>             official views of AMSAT-NA.
>>>             Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
>>>             satellite program!
>>>             Subscription settings:
>>>             https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>
>


From am25544 at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 05:57:45 2020
From: am25544 at gmail.com (Armando Mercado)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 01:57:45 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Back after a 2 yr absence
Message-ID: <CAOgooFkH6TK5L=zMEvg7qis17gh-QOz1T2UVT3361i1=SNPN_Q@mail.gmail.com>

I recently renewed my membership.  Looks like I have a lot of catching up
to do.
 Armando, N8IGJ

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 10:29:49 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 03:29:49 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>
References: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2U2fCYU4r8fLYE49HG80VHCRh9_LyW-5QQ5JP-cdNkUsA@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, I can.

That part of Clayton's letter is wrong and has been repeatedly clarified
before. Including at the 2019 annual board meeting, where Tom Clark asked
me about it, as part of the record.

Clayton Coleman was secretary in 2019.

He ran the election.

He decided that candidate statements were limited in length to 350 words,
would be subject to editorial control by AMSAT, and could not include
links. These new rules were given to us right before the 4th of July
holiday with a deadline of the 7th.

This is different than any election before, where statements went directly
to the printer from the candidate, were not limited in length, and no one
from AMSAT leadership (who might be running for reelection themselves) had
any control over the content of their challengers' statements.

We got these rules right before ballots went out. We (four challengers)
already had normal-sized statements on the web and they had been up six
weeks at that point. Those were the ones we wanted to use, and link to.

We knew that as candidates, we had the right to request the mailing list,
and send our own statements, independent of the ballot.

I requested the address list and got the DBASE4 export.

Bruce Perens had already written a letter of support and distributed it
widely on the web. It introduced us and included our four full bios and
statements.

I asked Bruce if we could use his letter in the mailing. He said yes. Since
he was President of Open Research Institute at the time, he wanted the
return address to not be his private home address, but a business address.
That was ORI's address. He was the author of the endorsement, so I used his
preferred return address.

I converted the DBASE4 to a more useful format, fixed the 50 or so
undeliverable addresses, and found an inexpensive printer. Then I sent the
letter from Bruce to the printer, with the bios and statements.

That turned out to be a good thing. Bios and statements were not included
with the ballots mailed out, at all.

If we had not sent the letter, then name recognition would be the primary
factor. We were running against well-known people.

We complained about this. It was unusual departure from the past and seemed
set up to let leadership benefit from being incumbents.

The original proposal from Clayton was for an electronic only ballot.
Patrick said that the bylaws were a bit clunky here and it did need to be
mailed out on paper. Paper was required.

This is a big reason why I made a motion at our one  board meeting, in
March, for a bylaws committee.

This bylaw isn't hard to fix. There's lots of examples out there of
organizations doing electronic voting with working published bylaws.

Bruce made it very clear, when the incumbents stirred up the pot about the
return address, that it was an endorsement from him, this was commonly done
in political campaigns, and it would be grossly improper for me to use
AMSATs return address because that would make it look like Bruce was
speaking for or was from AMSAT. That was not going to happen. *That* would
be improper.

No one candidate wanted their personal address used as a return address. We
were mailing this as a slate and splitting the cost. We didn't have time or
funds to make an organization or rent a box for one letter on short notice.
The printer required a real return address.

No one had the address list except the candidates. Namely me because I
contracted the printer and handled the DBASE4 address conversion. That is a
neat story in and of itself,, for another time.

Bruce only sent the text to me and chipped in some money for postage.

The printing was automated in Van Nuys, CA.

All of this is known to Clayton Coleman and his friends on the board that
signed the statement from this week. It has been explained by Bruce
publicly, and by me several times on social media. Tom Clark brought it up
at the 2019 annual board meeting because of the return address
pot-stirring. I explained it there too. Like I said, it's on the record.

I think insinuating the addresses were mishandled is a deliberate twisting
of honest efforts to scramble to get uncensored candidate statements out to
voters on short notice. We just didn't have a lot of time, and Bruce was
very generous in writing a cover letter.

Again, candidates are allowed the use of the mailing lists for election
purposes.

So, no, there was no breach. Clayton knows all this.

Saying it the way he did is a cheap shot at me, Patrick, Bruce Perens, and
ORI.

 -Michelle W5NYV

On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 19:11 Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

>   Hello All,
>
>    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we all
> received as members.
>
>
> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
>
> I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed before.
>
> "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to
> Open Research Institute."
>
>     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a serious
> breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?
> was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say
> "out in the wind"?
>
> Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how
> ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something
> that was procured online?
>
> AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it
> found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in
> the future.
>
>
> I look forward to an answer
>
> 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From dave at druidnetworks.com  Mon Jul 13 11:32:38 2020
From: dave at druidnetworks.com (David Swanson)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 06:32:38 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2U2fCYU4r8fLYE49HG80VHCRh9_LyW-5QQ5JP-cdNkUsA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2U2fCYU4r8fLYE49HG80VHCRh9_LyW-5QQ5JP-cdNkUsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANq+eyWHQ8o369h6=fqi1PJLWuMGP-1dTVj5Oej2CstAPY8S-w@mail.gmail.com>

Spin Spin Spin. The simple truth here is Director Thompson took the AMSAT
member database, and handed it over to a 3rd party competing entity for the
purpose of solicitation. I know I did not give ORI my home address, yet ORI
sent me a letter. This was a violation of my privacy, and for AMSAT
members living in the EU, this was a violation of the law. Any attempt to
explain this away is just more lies and deceit from Director Thompson about
the shady practices they have engaged in over the past few years. As I keep
saying, this isn't a one time thing, this is a pattern of
reprehensible behavior that is unbecoming of an elected position and this
community. Director Thompson and Director Stoddard should resign.

-Dave, KG5CCI

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:33 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Yes, I can.
>
> That part of Clayton's letter is wrong and has been repeatedly clarified
> before. Including at the 2019 annual board meeting, where Tom Clark asked
> me about it, as part of the record.
>
> Clayton Coleman was secretary in 2019.
>
> He ran the election.
>
> He decided that candidate statements were limited in length to 350 words,
> would be subject to editorial control by AMSAT, and could not include
> links. These new rules were given to us right before the 4th of July
> holiday with a deadline of the 7th.
>
> This is different than any election before, where statements went directly
> to the printer from the candidate, were not limited in length, and no one
> from AMSAT leadership (who might be running for reelection themselves) had
> any control over the content of their challengers' statements.
>
> We got these rules right before ballots went out. We (four challengers)
> already had normal-sized statements on the web and they had been up six
> weeks at that point. Those were the ones we wanted to use, and link to.
>
> We knew that as candidates, we had the right to request the mailing list,
> and send our own statements, independent of the ballot.
>
> I requested the address list and got the DBASE4 export.
>
> Bruce Perens had already written a letter of support and distributed it
> widely on the web. It introduced us and included our four full bios and
> statements.
>
> I asked Bruce if we could use his letter in the mailing. He said yes. Since
> he was President of Open Research Institute at the time, he wanted the
> return address to not be his private home address, but a business address.
> That was ORI's address. He was the author of the endorsement, so I used his
> preferred return address.
>
> I converted the DBASE4 to a more useful format, fixed the 50 or so
> undeliverable addresses, and found an inexpensive printer. Then I sent the
> letter from Bruce to the printer, with the bios and statements.
>
> That turned out to be a good thing. Bios and statements were not included
> with the ballots mailed out, at all.
>
> If we had not sent the letter, then name recognition would be the primary
> factor. We were running against well-known people.
>
> We complained about this. It was unusual departure from the past and seemed
> set up to let leadership benefit from being incumbents.
>
> The original proposal from Clayton was for an electronic only ballot.
> Patrick said that the bylaws were a bit clunky here and it did need to be
> mailed out on paper. Paper was required.
>
> This is a big reason why I made a motion at our one  board meeting, in
> March, for a bylaws committee.
>
> This bylaw isn't hard to fix. There's lots of examples out there of
> organizations doing electronic voting with working published bylaws.
>
> Bruce made it very clear, when the incumbents stirred up the pot about the
> return address, that it was an endorsement from him, this was commonly done
> in political campaigns, and it would be grossly improper for me to use
> AMSATs return address because that would make it look like Bruce was
> speaking for or was from AMSAT. That was not going to happen. *That* would
> be improper.
>
> No one candidate wanted their personal address used as a return address. We
> were mailing this as a slate and splitting the cost. We didn't have time or
> funds to make an organization or rent a box for one letter on short notice.
> The printer required a real return address.
>
> No one had the address list except the candidates. Namely me because I
> contracted the printer and handled the DBASE4 address conversion. That is a
> neat story in and of itself,, for another time.
>
> Bruce only sent the text to me and chipped in some money for postage.
>
> The printing was automated in Van Nuys, CA.
>
> All of this is known to Clayton Coleman and his friends on the board that
> signed the statement from this week. It has been explained by Bruce
> publicly, and by me several times on social media. Tom Clark brought it up
> at the 2019 annual board meeting because of the return address
> pot-stirring. I explained it there too. Like I said, it's on the record.
>
> I think insinuating the addresses were mishandled is a deliberate twisting
> of honest efforts to scramble to get uncensored candidate statements out to
> voters on short notice. We just didn't have a lot of time, and Bruce was
> very generous in writing a cover letter.
>
> Again, candidates are allowed the use of the mailing lists for election
> purposes.
>
> So, no, there was no breach. Clayton knows all this.
>
> Saying it the way he did is a cheap shot at me, Patrick, Bruce Perens, and
> ORI.
>
>  -Michelle W5NYV
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 19:11 Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> >   Hello All,
> >
> >    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we all
> > received as members.
> >
> >
> >
> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
> >
> > I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed before.
> >
> > "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to
> > Open Research Institute."
> >
> >     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a serious
> > breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?
> > was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say
> > "out in the wind"?
> >
> > Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how
> > ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something
> > that was procured online?
> >
> > AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it
> > found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in
> > the future.
> >
> >
> > I look forward to an answer
> >
> > 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From hans.bx2abt at msa.hinet.net  Mon Jul 13 12:02:25 2020
From: hans.bx2abt at msa.hinet.net (Hans BX2ABT)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 20:02:25 +0800
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <CANq+eyWHQ8o369h6=fqi1PJLWuMGP-1dTVj5Oej2CstAPY8S-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2U2fCYU4r8fLYE49HG80VHCRh9_LyW-5QQ5JP-cdNkUsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyWHQ8o369h6=fqi1PJLWuMGP-1dTVj5Oej2CstAPY8S-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4c8da5db-cddd-e51e-0b26-9142c1787528@msa.hinet.net>

On 7/13/20 7:32 PM, David Swanson via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Spin Spin Spin.

I think this is the biggest problem in the world right now.

People simply don't want to believe each other any more, or even 
entertain the thought that the "opponent" might be (partially) right or 
acting in good faith. Mistakes cannot be forgiven, because they are 
always made with malicious intent. And one's own actions are always 
right, because the other party is always wrong.

The trenches are dug, the weapons are loaded: let's go to war.

In the meantime the Russians give us Sputnik RS-44 (almost MEO), the 
Chinese shoot cool experiments into space (albeit with the quality of 
most stuff made in China) and the Germans achieve the first 
geo-stationary amateur payload. What does AMSAT-NA achieve? The world is 
already shaking its head when the USA are mentioned because of how it 
handles COVID-19. Now the amateur radio world laughs at how AMSAT-NA is 
handling itself. To quote your great leader: "So sad!"

73 de Hans (BX2ABT)


P.S. not an AMSAT-NA member, just here to share and learn about 
satellites. Now ducking for incoming flak.




> The simple truth here is Director Thompson took the AMSAT
> member database, and handed it over to a 3rd party competing entity for the
> purpose of solicitation. I know I did not give ORI my home address, yet ORI
> sent me a letter. This was a violation of my privacy, and for AMSAT
> members living in the EU, this was a violation of the law. Any attempt to
> explain this away is just more lies and deceit from Director Thompson about
> the shady practices they have engaged in over the past few years. As I keep
> saying, this isn't a one time thing, this is a pattern of
> reprehensible behavior that is unbecoming of an elected position and this
> community. Director Thompson and Director Stoddard should resign.
>
> -Dave, KG5CCI
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:33 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> Yes, I can.
>>
>> That part of Clayton's letter is wrong and has been repeatedly clarified
>> before. Including at the 2019 annual board meeting, where Tom Clark asked
>> me about it, as part of the record.
>>
>> Clayton Coleman was secretary in 2019.
>>
>> He ran the election.
>>
>> He decided that candidate statements were limited in length to 350 words,
>> would be subject to editorial control by AMSAT, and could not include
>> links. These new rules were given to us right before the 4th of July
>> holiday with a deadline of the 7th.
>>
>> This is different than any election before, where statements went directly
>> to the printer from the candidate, were not limited in length, and no one
>> from AMSAT leadership (who might be running for reelection themselves) had
>> any control over the content of their challengers' statements.
>>
>> We got these rules right before ballots went out. We (four challengers)
>> already had normal-sized statements on the web and they had been up six
>> weeks at that point. Those were the ones we wanted to use, and link to.
>>
>> We knew that as candidates, we had the right to request the mailing list,
>> and send our own statements, independent of the ballot.
>>
>> I requested the address list and got the DBASE4 export.
>>
>> Bruce Perens had already written a letter of support and distributed it
>> widely on the web. It introduced us and included our four full bios and
>> statements.
>>
>> I asked Bruce if we could use his letter in the mailing. He said yes. Since
>> he was President of Open Research Institute at the time, he wanted the
>> return address to not be his private home address, but a business address.
>> That was ORI's address. He was the author of the endorsement, so I used his
>> preferred return address.
>>
>> I converted the DBASE4 to a more useful format, fixed the 50 or so
>> undeliverable addresses, and found an inexpensive printer. Then I sent the
>> letter from Bruce to the printer, with the bios and statements.
>>
>> That turned out to be a good thing. Bios and statements were not included
>> with the ballots mailed out, at all.
>>
>> If we had not sent the letter, then name recognition would be the primary
>> factor. We were running against well-known people.
>>
>> We complained about this. It was unusual departure from the past and seemed
>> set up to let leadership benefit from being incumbents.
>>
>> The original proposal from Clayton was for an electronic only ballot.
>> Patrick said that the bylaws were a bit clunky here and it did need to be
>> mailed out on paper. Paper was required.
>>
>> This is a big reason why I made a motion at our one  board meeting, in
>> March, for a bylaws committee.
>>
>> This bylaw isn't hard to fix. There's lots of examples out there of
>> organizations doing electronic voting with working published bylaws.
>>
>> Bruce made it very clear, when the incumbents stirred up the pot about the
>> return address, that it was an endorsement from him, this was commonly done
>> in political campaigns, and it would be grossly improper for me to use
>> AMSATs return address because that would make it look like Bruce was
>> speaking for or was from AMSAT. That was not going to happen. *That* would
>> be improper.
>>
>> No one candidate wanted their personal address used as a return address. We
>> were mailing this as a slate and splitting the cost. We didn't have time or
>> funds to make an organization or rent a box for one letter on short notice.
>> The printer required a real return address.
>>
>> No one had the address list except the candidates. Namely me because I
>> contracted the printer and handled the DBASE4 address conversion. That is a
>> neat story in and of itself,, for another time.
>>
>> Bruce only sent the text to me and chipped in some money for postage.
>>
>> The printing was automated in Van Nuys, CA.
>>
>> All of this is known to Clayton Coleman and his friends on the board that
>> signed the statement from this week. It has been explained by Bruce
>> publicly, and by me several times on social media. Tom Clark brought it up
>> at the 2019 annual board meeting because of the return address
>> pot-stirring. I explained it there too. Like I said, it's on the record.
>>
>> I think insinuating the addresses were mishandled is a deliberate twisting
>> of honest efforts to scramble to get uncensored candidate statements out to
>> voters on short notice. We just didn't have a lot of time, and Bruce was
>> very generous in writing a cover letter.
>>
>> Again, candidates are allowed the use of the mailing lists for election
>> purposes.
>>
>> So, no, there was no breach. Clayton knows all this.
>>
>> Saying it the way he did is a cheap shot at me, Patrick, Bruce Perens, and
>> ORI.
>>
>>   -Michelle W5NYV
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 19:11 Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>>>    Hello All,
>>>
>>>     In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we all
>>> received as members.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
>>> I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed before.
>>>
>>> "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to
>>> Open Research Institute."
>>>
>>>      Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a serious
>>> breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?
>>> was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say
>>> "out in the wind"?
>>>
>>> Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how
>>> ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something
>>> that was procured online?
>>>
>>> AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it
>>> found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in
>>> the future.
>>>
>>>
>>> I look forward to an answer
>>>
>>> 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions
>>> expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>

From bruce at perens.com  Mon Jul 13 03:33:38 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 20:33:38 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb]  AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOs5TwZuN=-A_Rb39LAONtQHzX3i36efp-_RVeCdGyFnUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOs5TwZuN=-A_Rb39LAONtQHzX3i36efp-_RVeCdGyFnUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOs9Vjn46XSXiOt-a_453vZnObB5GsPF+RhZV7EuryDyLg@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com>
Date: Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
To: Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com>


The mailing list was never compromised. But my HOME address, under "Open
Research Institute" was used as the return address. This was a mistake and
I didn't ask for it. I was, however, the author of the mailer, in which I
introduced the candidates. The mailing was done by a bulk Mail company and
did not involve me. I got one returned letter, informed someone responsible
who had a right to see that address, and promptly forgot it.

Thanks

Bruce

On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 7:11 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

>   Hello All,
>
>    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we all
> received as members.
>
>
> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
>
> I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed before.
>
> "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to
> Open Research Institute."
>
>     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a serious
> breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?
> was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say
> "out in the wind"?
>
> Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how
> ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something
> that was procured online?
>
> AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it
> found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in
> the future.
>
>
> I look forward to an answer
>
> 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From bruce at perens.com  Mon Jul 13 04:08:35 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 21:08:35 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <6971fd85-2135-85a0-3ade-3c7a36352d47@gmail.com>
References: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOs5TwZuN=-A_Rb39LAONtQHzX3i36efp-_RVeCdGyFnUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6971fd85-2135-85a0-3ade-3c7a36352d47@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOskn_hhT4MpdhwQ2-nz7P44u+SUVuYvr-PYd7P8k3-ARw@mail.gmail.com>

The candidates are allowed the use of the mailing list for their campaign.
If you read the bylaws, they make it very clear. One of the candidates did
all of the handling of the mailing list.

Incidentally, the board was not aware that they had to give the mailing
list to the candidates. This was something the candidates had to tell them,
after I read the bylaws. Had the board run things the way they desired,
only a board controlled 200 word statement would have reached you from the
candidates, except for the incumbents, who have had free use of AMSAT's
official publications to carry their opinions.

In a more perfect world, the board would have known their own bylaws, or at
least the secretary who was running the election would have read them.

But in a more perfect world, two people were trying to reform the
organization with not face quite this uphill a battle.

Thanks

Bruce

On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:00 PM Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well how did the bulk mailing company get the AMSAT member mailing list if
> AMSAT did not provide it?
>
> Kevin
>
>
> On 7/12/2020 8:32 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
>
> The mailing list was never compromised. But my HOME address, under "Open
> Research Institute" was used as the return address. This was a mistake and
> I didn't ask for it. I was, however, the author of the mailer, in which I
> introduced the candidates. The mailing was done by a bulk Mail company and
> did not involve me. I got one returned letter, informed someone responsible
> who had a right to see that address, and promptly forgot it.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bruce
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 7:11 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
>>   Hello All,
>>
>>    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we all
>> received as members.
>>
>>
>> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
>>
>> I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed before.
>>
>> "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to
>> Open Research Institute."
>>
>>     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a serious
>> breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?
>> was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say
>> "out in the wind"?
>>
>> Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how
>> ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something
>> that was procured online?
>>
>> AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it
>> found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in
>> the future.
>>
>>
>> I look forward to an answer
>>
>> 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>
>

From bruce at perens.com  Mon Jul 13 04:48:21 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 21:48:21 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <34b9e74a-7626-8ae0-a371-c3675f951b7c@gmail.com>
References: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOs5TwZuN=-A_Rb39LAONtQHzX3i36efp-_RVeCdGyFnUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6971fd85-2135-85a0-3ade-3c7a36352d47@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOskn_hhT4MpdhwQ2-nz7P44u+SUVuYvr-PYd7P8k3-ARw@mail.gmail.com>
	<34b9e74a-7626-8ae0-a371-c3675f951b7c@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOu-sb=r3bn14TwkT37m_LVhhj+rGrMHM90O0O_nQkjYuw@mail.gmail.com>

Kevin,

No, I never saw the mailing list . I didn't do the mailing . I only wrote
the content .

So, why was I involved at all ?

I won't say I'm the best tech evangelist you know, because that is for
other people to judge. However, if you count the Open Source movement in
software; the campaign for the elimination of the Morse code requirement
for Amateur Radio licenses, which among other things I got on the front
page of the New York Times, above the fold; My work to help elect a new
ARRL board to end the confidentiality versus transparency debacle; And my
global appearance for IBM's "Dear Tech", campaign, which got at least 50000
television and Internet airplays;

If you count all those things, I am probably the person you want
introducing you as a candidate, and I might be a good person to tell you
how to run a campaign.

As it happens I wrote my own campaign, which I was going to put out under
my own name, endorsing those candidates. And then the candidates chose to
use it as their main campaign statement. This was very flattering and
entirely their own choice.

As an ARRL member, it was my right to participate in their election, and it
is my right to participate in AMSAT's.

Thanks

Bruce K6BP


On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:29 PM Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com> wrote:

> Bruce,
>    So hang on a moment, you're telling me that the candidates are allowed
> to use the mailing list for their campaign (fine), but rather than them
> doing it themselves they turned the task over to you? So you were in
> possession of the mailing list and then you turned it over to the bulk
> mailing center when you authored the mailer?
>
> Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7/12/2020 9:08 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
>
> The candidates are allowed the use of the mailing list for their campaign.
> If you read the bylaws, they make it very clear. One of the candidates did
> all of the handling of the mailing list.
>
> Incidentally, the board was not aware that they had to give the mailing
> list to the candidates. This was something the candidates had to tell them,
> after I read the bylaws. Had the board run things the way they desired,
> only a board controlled 200 word statement would have reached you from the
> candidates, except for the incumbents, who have had free use of AMSAT's
> official publications to carry their opinions.
>
> In a more perfect world, the board would have known their own bylaws, or
> at least the secretary who was running the election would have read them.
>
> But in a more perfect world, two people were trying to reform the
> organization with not face quite this uphill a battle.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bruce
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:00 PM Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Well how did the bulk mailing company get the AMSAT member mailing list
>> if AMSAT did not provide it?
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>>
>> On 7/12/2020 8:32 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
>>
>> The mailing list was never compromised. But my HOME address, under "Open
>> Research Institute" was used as the return address. This was a mistake and
>> I didn't ask for it. I was, however, the author of the mailer, in which I
>> introduced the candidates. The mailing was done by a bulk Mail company and
>> did not involve me. I got one returned letter, informed someone responsible
>> who had a right to see that address, and promptly forgot it.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 7:11 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>   Hello All,
>>>
>>>    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we all
>>> received as members.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
>>>
>>> I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed before.
>>>
>>> "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to
>>> Open Research Institute."
>>>
>>>     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a serious
>>> breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?
>>> was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say
>>> "out in the wind"?
>>>
>>> Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how
>>> ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something
>>> that was procured online?
>>>
>>> AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it
>>> found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in
>>> the future.
>>>
>>>
>>> I look forward to an answer
>>>
>>> 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>
>>
>

From bruce at perens.com  Mon Jul 13 05:30:29 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 22:30:29 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <60901734-65cf-6ad0-c405-1d82f7e31c6e@gmail.com>
References: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOs5TwZuN=-A_Rb39LAONtQHzX3i36efp-_RVeCdGyFnUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6971fd85-2135-85a0-3ade-3c7a36352d47@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOskn_hhT4MpdhwQ2-nz7P44u+SUVuYvr-PYd7P8k3-ARw@mail.gmail.com>
	<34b9e74a-7626-8ae0-a371-c3675f951b7c@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOu-sb=r3bn14TwkT37m_LVhhj+rGrMHM90O0O_nQkjYuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<60901734-65cf-6ad0-c405-1d82f7e31c6e@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOsYiCqnWi8igTOnVC-vh_Xo=yFtZKYgwwgnzYF-6qNfPQ@mail.gmail.com>

The candidate felt that since I wrote the letter, that the return address
should be mine. I didn't ask for it, I especially did not ask for my home
address, which is not in the call book, to be used. As it happens, I found
out about one silent key member in the return mail, which I passed on and
promptly forgot. I work for lawyers all day in my consulting business, and
thus I read the rules, I understand the rules, I follow the rules. These
are not, by the way, Robert's Rules of Order. These are things like what a
director is responsible for, and how to run an election. It really bothers
me that the incumbents didn't know those rules.

Thanks

Bruce

On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 10:11 PM Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well Bruce,
>
>    Something doesn't jive here,  " I didn't do the mailing . I only wrote
> the content "  then it seems the candidate would have been the person that
> was dealing with the bulk mailer and would have had their return address
> listed and it would not have been your home address on it.
>
>    Guess it's time to pick a different bulk mailer.
>
>
> Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>
>
>
>
> On 7/12/2020 9:48 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
>
> Kevin,
>
> No, I never saw the mailing list . I didn't do the mailing . I only wrote
> the content .
>
> So, why was I involved at all ?
>
> I won't say I'm the best tech evangelist you know, because that is for
> other people to judge. However, if you count the Open Source movement in
> software; the campaign for the elimination of the Morse code requirement
> for Amateur Radio licenses, which among other things I got on the front
> page of the New York Times, above the fold; My work to help elect a new
> ARRL board to end the confidentiality versus transparency debacle; And my
> global appearance for IBM's "Dear Tech", campaign, which got at least 50000
> television and Internet airplays;
>
> If you count all those things, I am probably the person you want
> introducing you as a candidate, and I might be a good person to tell you
> how to run a campaign.
>
> As it happens I wrote my own campaign, which I was going to put out under
> my own name, endorsing those candidates. And then the candidates chose to
> use it as their main campaign statement. This was very flattering and
> entirely their own choice.
>
> As an ARRL member, it was my right to participate in their election, and
> it is my right to participate in AMSAT's.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bruce K6BP
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:29 PM Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Bruce,
>>    So hang on a moment, you're telling me that the candidates are allowed
>> to use the mailing list for their campaign (fine), but rather than them
>> doing it themselves they turned the task over to you? So you were in
>> possession of the mailing list and then you turned it over to the bulk
>> mailing center when you authored the mailer?
>>
>> Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/12/2020 9:08 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
>>
>> The candidates are allowed the use of the mailing list for their
>> campaign. If you read the bylaws, they make it very clear. One of the
>> candidates did all of the handling of the mailing list.
>>
>> Incidentally, the board was not aware that they had to give the mailing
>> list to the candidates. This was something the candidates had to tell them,
>> after I read the bylaws. Had the board run things the way they desired,
>> only a board controlled 200 word statement would have reached you from the
>> candidates, except for the incumbents, who have had free use of AMSAT's
>> official publications to carry their opinions.
>>
>> In a more perfect world, the board would have known their own bylaws, or
>> at least the secretary who was running the election would have read them.
>>
>> But in a more perfect world, two people were trying to reform the
>> organization with not face quite this uphill a battle.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:00 PM Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Well how did the bulk mailing company get the AMSAT member mailing list
>>> if AMSAT did not provide it?
>>>
>>> Kevin
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/12/2020 8:32 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
>>>
>>> The mailing list was never compromised. But my HOME address, under "Open
>>> Research Institute" was used as the return address. This was a mistake and
>>> I didn't ask for it. I was, however, the author of the mailer, in which I
>>> introduced the candidates. The mailing was done by a bulk Mail company and
>>> did not involve me. I got one returned letter, informed someone responsible
>>> who had a right to see that address, and promptly forgot it.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 7:11 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>   Hello All,
>>>>
>>>>    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we all
>>>> received as members.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
>>>>
>>>> I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed
>>>> before.
>>>>
>>>> "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to
>>>> Open Research Institute."
>>>>
>>>>     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a
>>>> serious
>>>> breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?
>>>> was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say
>>>> "out in the wind"?
>>>>
>>>> Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how
>>>> ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something
>>>> that was procured online?
>>>>
>>>> AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it
>>>> found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in
>>>> the future.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I look forward to an answer
>>>>
>>>> 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>> Opinions expressed
>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>>> of AMSAT-NA.
>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>> program!
>>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

From bruce at perens.com  Mon Jul 13 05:33:57 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 22:33:57 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Testing
In-Reply-To: <CALx_moT1DPKk5Zr+rLt54Rm9Zdy=yyonjHa0JQ2NTcNy4R4X9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19c6fd82-7965-23e1-0553-3f27506ba622@charter.net>
	<CALx_moT1DPKk5Zr+rLt54Rm9Zdy=yyonjHa0JQ2NTcNy4R4X9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOtz55S5Hisbb765z65ZQ=rLt+p_AMyAwMzrGj-HjKSABg@mail.gmail.com>

I am saving the pillory for someone who does greater damage. :-) Please
elect new blood, every organization needs it. That is all that is necessary.

Bruce

On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 8:44 PM Jeff Moore via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> I agree with this assessment of the situation with one exception!!
>
> AMSAT-NA is not a cookie jar, and these are not kids!!!  IF in fact there
> is some legal liability here - then the responsible parties should be held
> accountable!!  If that means prison time - then so be it!!!  A thief is a
> thief and theft is illegal - let the chips fall where they should!!!
>
> The LAST thing that should happen here is pillorying the whistleblowers
> assuming they are correct and without liability here!
>
> 7  3
> Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 8:22 PM Michael Tondee via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > I'm sorry but I  don't see where my last post ever got through. Pretty
> > sure it was sent to the right place but I never saw it show up. Hmnn,
> > wonder why... too critical? At any rate, not a member but reading all
> > the mud being slung at two board members, who for the most part just
> > seemed to have asked for some board accountability, this sure looks like
> > a classic case of  the kids getting caught with their hand in the
> > proverbial cookie jar and they're now scurrying to cover it up from
> > Mom&Dad. Sigh....
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Michael, W4HIJ
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From bruce at perens.com  Mon Jul 13 06:01:30 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 23:01:30 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <CAM42373tYrrqGbg3e82LWVzvTMa468eG08Jy7taBdxVUN_Px-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6595.1594607750.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<CAM42373tYrrqGbg3e82LWVzvTMa468eG08Jy7taBdxVUN_Px-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOtaYqGL78Pa03AC=a3fFLz9V6=ydrxPk6mB1_21yN_zPA@mail.gmail.com>

Paul,

Roberts Rules are regarding parliamentary procedure. AMSAT's bylaws are at
https://www.amsat.org/bylaws-of-the-radio-amateur-satellite-corporation/ .
They do not specify parliamentary procedure. They are about
responsibilities of a director, elections, etc. And if you have the choice,
Roberts is an antique, good parliamentarians use Sturgis.

Bruce

On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:12 PM Paul F. Merrill via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I agree that this mailing list has strayed from its strongest contribution:
> satellite information, discussion, and mentoring.
>
> I come from, and have been on the BOD of, a professional organization for a
> number of years now.
>
> FWIW, I know too well that an organization often lawyers up to protect
> itself, and in our issues, our attorney was engaged to act solely on behalf
> of the Organization and not necessarily current management.
>
> This thread has turned in to a long, ugly diatribe filled with accusations,
> counter-accusations, and painfully-obvious shills.  I am a recently-renewed
> member who doesn?t have a dog in the fight, so I just want what?s best for
> AMSAT.
>
> Sadly, the stereotypes are starting to show - the members who contribute
> nothing but want to tear down those ?In power,? the members who contribute
> nothing and don?t want anyone to make waves, and the few who actually do
> anything.  As a number of people have commented, working in a non-profit or
> unpaid leadership role is utterly thankless, which is lost on many people -
> especially those who have never labored in this sort of endeavor.
>
> My favorite story from our times of trouble is when our Parliamentarian
> said, ?Roberts Rules are the last refuge of a scoundrel.  Grown men and
> women should be able to comport themselves reasonably...but then I?d be out
> of a job.?   I?m taking a little license with his exact words, but the
> sentiment, along with my experience, formed my native distrust of those who
> are right and everyone and everything before them is wrong.  So...there?s
> my bias.  I will examine that, and all the information I can before I
> vote.  I hope everyone else will take the time and expend the effort to
> vote as intelligently as they can.
>
> My overriding guidance to my Association is that we contribute to the group
> so that we all benefit from the group.  A strong organization should
> outlive us.
>
> Personally, I can?t wait to vote and hopefully put a fork in this.
>
> Paul / W7IV
>
>
>
> ????????-
>
> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 19:27:24 -0700
> From: "Daron Wilson" <daron at wilson.org>
> To: "'AMSAT BB'" <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
> Message-ID: <00b501d658bd$26119cc0$7234d640$@org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="utf-8"
>
> Is there a bulletin board that discusses amateur radio satellites
> operations still?   Asking for a friend.  This is getting old.
>
>
> Daron N7HQR
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From meekoblue at hotmail.co.uk  Mon Jul 13 06:11:00 2020
From: meekoblue at hotmail.co.uk (Meeko Kittika)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 06:11:00 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Enough of this!
Message-ID: <AM0PR01MB6100D154A0C5A37C2F0DEEA0E5600@AM0PR01MB6100.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com>

I'm from Amsat-UK land and completely disgusted with this pantomime.

I'm un-subscribing because I came here to discuss and learn about amateur satellites with like minded individuals.  I was wrong apparently. What I'm witnessing is a mess. Sort yourselves out! You do a disservice to the hobby.

Meeko
M0FVD

From wa7fwf at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 13:13:38 2020
From: wa7fwf at gmail.com (Kevin)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 06:13:38 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOsYiCqnWi8igTOnVC-vh_Xo=yFtZKYgwwgnzYF-6qNfPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOs5TwZuN=-A_Rb39LAONtQHzX3i36efp-_RVeCdGyFnUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6971fd85-2135-85a0-3ade-3c7a36352d47@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOskn_hhT4MpdhwQ2-nz7P44u+SUVuYvr-PYd7P8k3-ARw@mail.gmail.com>
	<34b9e74a-7626-8ae0-a371-c3675f951b7c@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOu-sb=r3bn14TwkT37m_LVhhj+rGrMHM90O0O_nQkjYuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<60901734-65cf-6ad0-c405-1d82f7e31c6e@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOsYiCqnWi8igTOnVC-vh_Xo=yFtZKYgwwgnzYF-6qNfPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1a968820-04a2-74e2-dcb9-a7673ce6cecb@gmail.com>

Bruce & Michelle,
 ??? I have no issue with Bruce writing it, I have no issue with a 
candidate using the mailing list, the issue I have is if ORI/Bruce was 
mailing it for them and ORI/Bruce having the list.
Had a candidate used the list and? a candidate mailed it under their 
name and then ORI reimbursed them later for their costs later I would 
have no issue with that either.

Since we are all keen about following the rules, the bylaws say? "Duly 
nominated and eligible candidates shall be afforded equal opportunity to 
circulate statements of their qualifications and positions to the 
Members through the corporation?s publications and shall have use of the 
corporation?s mailing lists for election-related purposes at no cost to 
the corporation."

It does not say the candidates representatives or other organizations 
that the candidate may belong to can have access to the list.

 ? AMSAT says they did not give the data to ORI, which I believe and you 
have confirmed that it was indeed you, yet it appeared as a ORI/Bruce 
mailing, If it was mailed through ORI's bulk mailer or ORI picked up the 
cost then I would say it was treated as ORI business, and ORI has no 
business having the that list, *That* is improper.

Michelle, you are saying now that you were the only one that was in 
control of the list and the only one that dealt with the printer, that 
is good.

 ?Although I'm still not clear why no one running wanted their return 
address on the mailing, a quick lookup on QRZ has everyone's address, by 
using the return address you did you created? the appearance of a 3rd 
party having the mailing list and thus created this problem, using 
time/cost as an excuse is not very good, anyone running for office could 
have used their address and then one line added to the doc stating that 
the mailing represented all candidates and avoided all of this.

If it was made clear later that this was not an ORI mailing with ORI in 
control of the list I did not see it, was this sent to the BB or where 
can I find this correction posted?

 ? One has to maintain a chain of control of private data, I did not 
know if this was done. I do not know if the bulk mailer you used still 
has the AMSAT mailing list on file, or if it was deleted once done, and 
if still on file who has access to it?

 ?I know this may look like I'm splitting hairs here but I hope you 
agree that? any org should always be clear and capable of proving that 
they have handled data responsibly.


Kevin WA7FWF #19623







On 7/12/2020 10:30 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
> The candidate felt that since I wrote the letter, that the return 
> address should be mine. I didn't ask for it, I especially did not ask 
> for my home address, which is not in the call book, to be used. As it 
> happens, I found out about one silent key member in the return mail, 
> which I passed on and promptly forgot. I work for lawyers all day in 
> my consulting business, and thus I read the rules, I understand the 
> rules, I follow the rules. These are not, by the way, Robert's Rules 
> of Order. These are things like what a director is responsible for, 
> and how to run an election. It really bothers me that the incumbents 
> didn't know those rules.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bruce
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 10:11 PM Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com 
> <mailto:wa7fwf at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Well Bruce,
>
>     ?? Something doesn't jive here,? " I didn't do the mailing . I
>     only wrote the content "? then it seems the candidate would have
>     been the person that was dealing with the bulk mailer and would
>     have had their return address listed and it would not have been
>     your home address on it.
>
>     ?? Guess it's time to pick a different bulk mailer.
>
>
>     Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>
>
>
>
>     On 7/12/2020 9:48 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
>>     Kevin,
>>
>>     No, I never saw the mailing list . I didn't do the mailing . I
>>     only wrote the content .
>>
>>     So, why was I involved at all ?
>>
>>     I won't say I'm the best tech evangelist you know, because that
>>     is for other people to judge. However, if you count the Open
>>     Source movement in software; the campaign for the elimination of
>>     the Morse code requirement for Amateur Radio licenses, which
>>     among other things I got on the front page of the New York Times,
>>     above the fold; My work to help elect a new ARRL board to end the
>>     confidentiality versus transparency debacle; And my global
>>     appearance for IBM's "Dear Tech", campaign, which got at least
>>     50000 television and Internet airplays;
>>
>>     If you count all those things, I am probably the person you want
>>     introducing you as a candidate, and I might be a good person to
>>     tell you how to run a campaign.
>>
>>     As it happens I wrote my own campaign, which I was going to put
>>     out under my own name, endorsing those candidates. And then the
>>     candidates chose to use it as their main campaign statement. This
>>     was very flattering and entirely their own choice.
>>
>>     As an ARRL member, it was my right to participate in their
>>     election, and it is my right to participate in AMSAT's.
>>
>>     Thanks
>>
>>     Bruce K6BP
>>
>>
>>     On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:29 PM Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com
>>     <mailto:wa7fwf at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         Bruce,
>>         ?? So hang on a moment, you're telling me that the candidates
>>         are allowed to use the mailing list for their campaign
>>         (fine), but rather than them doing it themselves they turned
>>         the task over to you? So you were in possession of the
>>         mailing list and then you turned it over to the bulk mailing
>>         center when you authored the mailer?
>>
>>         Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         On 7/12/2020 9:08 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
>>>         The candidates are allowed the use of the mailing list for
>>>         their campaign. If you read the bylaws, they make it very
>>>         clear. One of the candidates did all of the handling of the
>>>         mailing list.
>>>
>>>         Incidentally, the board was not aware that they had to give
>>>         the mailing list to the candidates. This was something the
>>>         candidates had to tell them, after I read the bylaws. Had
>>>         the board run things the way they desired, only a board
>>>         controlled 200 word statement would have reached you from
>>>         the candidates, except for the incumbents, who have had free
>>>         use of AMSAT's official publications to carry their opinions.
>>>
>>>         In a more perfect world, the board would have known their
>>>         own bylaws, or at least the secretary who was running the
>>>         election would have read them.
>>>
>>>         But in a more perfect world, two people were trying to
>>>         reform the organization with not face quite this uphill a
>>>         battle.
>>>
>>>         Thanks
>>>
>>>         Bruce
>>>
>>>         On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:00 PM Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com
>>>         <mailto:wa7fwf at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             Well how did the bulk mailing company get the AMSAT
>>>             member mailing list if AMSAT did not provide it?
>>>
>>>             Kevin
>>>
>>>
>>>             On 7/12/2020 8:32 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
>>>>             The mailing list was never compromised. But my HOME
>>>>             address, under "Open Research Institute" was used as
>>>>             the return address. This was a mistake and I didn't ask
>>>>             for it. I was, however, the author of the mailer, in
>>>>             which I introduced the candidates. The mailing was done
>>>>             by a bulk Mail company and did not involve me. I got
>>>>             one returned letter, informed someone responsible who
>>>>             had a right to see that address, and promptly forgot it.
>>>>
>>>>             Thanks
>>>>
>>>>             Bruce
>>>>
>>>>             On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 7:11 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB
>>>>             <amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                 ??Hello All,
>>>>
>>>>                 ?? In a previous email to the BB I posted the link
>>>>                 to the letter we all
>>>>                 received as members.
>>>>
>>>>                 https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
>>>>
>>>>                 I was re-reading it and something caught my eye
>>>>                 that I had missed before.
>>>>
>>>>                 "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership
>>>>                 mailing addresses to
>>>>                 Open Research Institute."
>>>>
>>>>                 ??? Just how was our mailing list compromised? This
>>>>                 seems like a serious
>>>>                 breech of security, was this a hack? was any other
>>>>                 information lost?
>>>>                 was it ever found out how it happened? is our
>>>>                 mailing list as they say
>>>>                 "out in the wind"?
>>>>
>>>>                 Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side
>>>>                 and backtrack how
>>>>                 ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list,
>>>>                 was it something
>>>>                 that was procured online?
>>>>
>>>>                 AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and
>>>>                 report back what it
>>>>                 found and any steps that were taken to prevent this
>>>>                 from happening in
>>>>                 the future.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 I look forward to an answer
>>>>
>>>>                 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>>                 Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org
>>>>                 <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this
>>>>                 open forum available
>>>>                 to all interested persons worldwide without
>>>>                 requiring membership. Opinions expressed
>>>>                 are solely those of the author, and do not reflect
>>>>                 the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>>>>                 Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the
>>>>                 amateur satellite program!
>>>>                 Subscription settings:
>>>>                 https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>
>>>
>>
>


From va3mw at portcredit.net  Mon Jul 13 13:29:00 2020
From: va3mw at portcredit.net (Michael Walker)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 09:29:00 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read - 2 solutions
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOtaYqGL78Pa03AC=a3fFLz9V6=ydrxPk6mB1_21yN_zPA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6595.1594607750.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<CAM42373tYrrqGbg3e82LWVzvTMa468eG08Jy7taBdxVUN_Px-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtaYqGL78Pa03AC=a3fFLz9V6=ydrxPk6mB1_21yN_zPA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+33ts79FsuVcij+tGcze2AqrS9hf=h1W=3V84My5TYXVvWF9g@mail.gmail.com>

You have 2 options here:


   1. Draw a line in the sand and move on - Yes, lots of stuff not resolved
   but doesn't cost much money
   2. Go  on a witch hut - spend lots of money and likely the death of
   Amsat since it won't have any funds left to do anything.

Decide... do you want satellites to talk on or piece of mind.  I doubt you
can have both.

Mike va3mw
(yes, I am a member)

From dave at druidnetworks.com  Mon Jul 13 13:38:59 2020
From: dave at druidnetworks.com (David Swanson)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 08:38:59 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOsYiCqnWi8igTOnVC-vh_Xo=yFtZKYgwwgnzYF-6qNfPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOs5TwZuN=-A_Rb39LAONtQHzX3i36efp-_RVeCdGyFnUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6971fd85-2135-85a0-3ade-3c7a36352d47@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOskn_hhT4MpdhwQ2-nz7P44u+SUVuYvr-PYd7P8k3-ARw@mail.gmail.com>
	<34b9e74a-7626-8ae0-a371-c3675f951b7c@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOu-sb=r3bn14TwkT37m_LVhhj+rGrMHM90O0O_nQkjYuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<60901734-65cf-6ad0-c405-1d82f7e31c6e@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOsYiCqnWi8igTOnVC-vh_Xo=yFtZKYgwwgnzYF-6qNfPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANq+eyUwZt1_t6zsXEiHzXwgvhevf=VDd+fYnhniMFF_Dy2Qww@mail.gmail.com>

Kevin you'll notice a whole lot of this doublespeak when dealing with
Director Thompson and their shills. "We didn't  break the rules, you just
don't understand the rules". "The member list wasn't compromised, you just
don't understand what compromised means."

It's utterly ridiculous to think the person who authored the cover letter
of a mailer, and served as the "mailed from" address to an entire list of
people didn't first see that list. To believe otherwise is to fully commit
to an endless present in which the party is always right.

Dave, KG5CCI

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 8:14 AM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> The candidate felt that since I wrote the letter, that the return address
> should be mine. I didn't ask for it, I especially did not ask for my home
> address, which is not in the call book, to be used. As it happens, I found
> out about one silent key member in the return mail, which I passed on and
> promptly forgot. I work for lawyers all day in my consulting business, and
> thus I read the rules, I understand the rules, I follow the rules. These
> are not, by the way, Robert's Rules of Order. These are things like what a
> director is responsible for, and how to run an election. It really bothers
> me that the incumbents didn't know those rules.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bruce
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 10:11 PM Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Well Bruce,
> >
> >    Something doesn't jive here,  " I didn't do the mailing . I only wrote
> > the content "  then it seems the candidate would have been the person
> that
> > was dealing with the bulk mailer and would have had their return address
> > listed and it would not have been your home address on it.
> >
> >    Guess it's time to pick a different bulk mailer.
> >
> >
> > Kevin WA7FWF #19623
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 7/12/2020 9:48 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
> >
> > Kevin,
> >
> > No, I never saw the mailing list . I didn't do the mailing . I only wrote
> > the content .
> >
> > So, why was I involved at all ?
> >
> > I won't say I'm the best tech evangelist you know, because that is for
> > other people to judge. However, if you count the Open Source movement in
> > software; the campaign for the elimination of the Morse code requirement
> > for Amateur Radio licenses, which among other things I got on the front
> > page of the New York Times, above the fold; My work to help elect a new
> > ARRL board to end the confidentiality versus transparency debacle; And my
> > global appearance for IBM's "Dear Tech", campaign, which got at least
> 50000
> > television and Internet airplays;
> >
> > If you count all those things, I am probably the person you want
> > introducing you as a candidate, and I might be a good person to tell you
> > how to run a campaign.
> >
> > As it happens I wrote my own campaign, which I was going to put out under
> > my own name, endorsing those candidates. And then the candidates chose to
> > use it as their main campaign statement. This was very flattering and
> > entirely their own choice.
> >
> > As an ARRL member, it was my right to participate in their election, and
> > it is my right to participate in AMSAT's.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Bruce K6BP
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:29 PM Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Bruce,
> >>    So hang on a moment, you're telling me that the candidates are
> allowed
> >> to use the mailing list for their campaign (fine), but rather than them
> >> doing it themselves they turned the task over to you? So you were in
> >> possession of the mailing list and then you turned it over to the bulk
> >> mailing center when you authored the mailer?
> >>
> >> Kevin WA7FWF #19623
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 7/12/2020 9:08 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
> >>
> >> The candidates are allowed the use of the mailing list for their
> >> campaign. If you read the bylaws, they make it very clear. One of the
> >> candidates did all of the handling of the mailing list.
> >>
> >> Incidentally, the board was not aware that they had to give the mailing
> >> list to the candidates. This was something the candidates had to tell
> them,
> >> after I read the bylaws. Had the board run things the way they desired,
> >> only a board controlled 200 word statement would have reached you from
> the
> >> candidates, except for the incumbents, who have had free use of AMSAT's
> >> official publications to carry their opinions.
> >>
> >> In a more perfect world, the board would have known their own bylaws, or
> >> at least the secretary who was running the election would have read
> them.
> >>
> >> But in a more perfect world, two people were trying to reform the
> >> organization with not face quite this uphill a battle.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Bruce
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:00 PM Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Well how did the bulk mailing company get the AMSAT member mailing list
> >>> if AMSAT did not provide it?
> >>>
> >>> Kevin
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 7/12/2020 8:32 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The mailing list was never compromised. But my HOME address, under
> "Open
> >>> Research Institute" was used as the return address. This was a mistake
> and
> >>> I didn't ask for it. I was, however, the author of the mailer, in
> which I
> >>> introduced the candidates. The mailing was done by a bulk Mail company
> and
> >>> did not involve me. I got one returned letter, informed someone
> responsible
> >>> who had a right to see that address, and promptly forgot it.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> Bruce
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 7:11 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>   Hello All,
> >>>>
> >>>>    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we
> all
> >>>> received as members.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
> >>>>
> >>>> I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed
> >>>> before.
> >>>>
> >>>> "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to
> >>>> Open Research Institute."
> >>>>
> >>>>     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a
> >>>> serious
> >>>> breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?
> >>>> was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say
> >>>> "out in the wind"?
> >>>>
> >>>> Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how
> >>>> ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something
> >>>> that was procured online?
> >>>>
> >>>> AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it
> >>>> found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in
> >>>> the future.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I look forward to an answer
> >>>>
> >>>> 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >>>> Opinions expressed
> >>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> >>>> of AMSAT-NA.
> >>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >>>> program!
> >>>> Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From aa5pk at suddenlink.net  Mon Jul 13 13:43:01 2020
From: aa5pk at suddenlink.net (Glenn Miller AA5PK)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 08:43:01 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Enough of this!
In-Reply-To: <AM0PR01MB6100D154A0C5A37C2F0DEEA0E5600@AM0PR01MB6100.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <AM0PR01MB6100D154A0C5A37C2F0DEEA0E5600@AM0PR01MB6100.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <9FAF30CD7B0F4AA98182236F62BFBB62@DESKTOPL0IAS8B>

Couldn't agree more, Meeko.

Glenn
AA5PK

-----Original Message----- 
From: Meeko Kittika via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 1:11 AM
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Enough of this!

I'm from Amsat-UK land and completely disgusted with this pantomime.

I'm un-subscribing because I came here to discuss and learn about amateur satellites with like minded individuals.  I was 
wrong apparently. What I'm witnessing is a mess. Sort yourselves out! You do a disservice to the hobby.

Meeko
M0FVD
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb 


From ke9v at mac.com  Mon Jul 13 14:06:51 2020
From: ke9v at mac.com (Jeff Davis)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 10:06:51 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Gravitas
Message-ID: <47852A8D-A8B9-40D2-B6A2-720CE4ECD7D2@mac.com>

Respect and trust are things not easily earned from people we almost never see. It?s not difficult for me to respect and trust my wife having lived with her for 42 years. Politicians and BoD members aren?t like that. We often barely know them so any decision about who to vote for or who to trust when conflicts arise is generally something of a gamble. 

But in this case the "explanation letter" issued by AMSAT was signed by some people I've trusted for years, especially Dr. Tom Clark and Keith Baker whose signatures lend considerable gravitas to the response. 

That said, I?m satisfied with the response and have made up my mind about the choices in the coming election I intend to make. I hope you all have too. And for those non-members who have kicked up considerable chaff here on the -BB, I invite you to turn your angst, whatever it might be, into action by joining AMSAT and have a vote in the matter. Otherwise, you?re just ranting with into the wind for no reason other than to hear your own voice?

https://www.amsat.org/join-amsat/ <https://www.amsat.org/join-amsat/>


Jeff, KE9V
AMSAT 28350



 

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 14:23:51 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 07:23:51 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <CANq+eyWHQ8o369h6=fqi1PJLWuMGP-1dTVj5Oej2CstAPY8S-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2U2fCYU4r8fLYE49HG80VHCRh9_LyW-5QQ5JP-cdNkUsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyWHQ8o369h6=fqi1PJLWuMGP-1dTVj5Oej2CstAPY8S-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2U4M0XDpWM9L9-fr27vxJ6FaT8iGJHvf98U39SX4Zk7=Q@mail.gmail.com>

No database went anywhere except to candidates. This is allowed in the
bylaws.

Then, an automated bulk mail printing server was used. I recommended the
company to Brennan Price for this year's mailing. Good service,
inexpensive.

Return addresses don't magically transfer information.

-Michelle W5NYV


On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 04:32 David Swanson <dave at druidnetworks.com> wrote:

> Spin Spin Spin. The simple truth here is Director Thompson took the AMSAT
> member database, and handed it over to a 3rd party competing entity for the
> purpose of solicitation. I know I did not give ORI my home address, yet ORI
> sent me a letter. This was a violation of my privacy, and for AMSAT
> members living in the EU, this was a violation of the law. Any attempt to
> explain this away is just more lies and deceit from Director Thompson about
> the shady practices they have engaged in over the past few years. As I keep
> saying, this isn't a one time thing, this is a pattern of
> reprehensible behavior that is unbecoming of an elected position and this
> community. Director Thompson and Director Stoddard should resign.
>
> -Dave, KG5CCI
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:33 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> Yes, I can.
>>
>> That part of Clayton's letter is wrong and has been repeatedly clarified
>> before. Including at the 2019 annual board meeting, where Tom Clark asked
>> me about it, as part of the record.
>>
>> Clayton Coleman was secretary in 2019.
>>
>> He ran the election.
>>
>> He decided that candidate statements were limited in length to 350 words,
>> would be subject to editorial control by AMSAT, and could not include
>> links. These new rules were given to us right before the 4th of July
>> holiday with a deadline of the 7th.
>>
>> This is different than any election before, where statements went directly
>> to the printer from the candidate, were not limited in length, and no one
>> from AMSAT leadership (who might be running for reelection themselves) had
>> any control over the content of their challengers' statements.
>>
>> We got these rules right before ballots went out. We (four challengers)
>> already had normal-sized statements on the web and they had been up six
>> weeks at that point. Those were the ones we wanted to use, and link to.
>>
>> We knew that as candidates, we had the right to request the mailing list,
>> and send our own statements, independent of the ballot.
>>
>> I requested the address list and got the DBASE4 export.
>>
>> Bruce Perens had already written a letter of support and distributed it
>> widely on the web. It introduced us and included our four full bios and
>> statements.
>>
>> I asked Bruce if we could use his letter in the mailing. He said yes.
>> Since
>> he was President of Open Research Institute at the time, he wanted the
>> return address to not be his private home address, but a business address.
>> That was ORI's address. He was the author of the endorsement, so I used
>> his
>> preferred return address.
>>
>> I converted the DBASE4 to a more useful format, fixed the 50 or so
>> undeliverable addresses, and found an inexpensive printer. Then I sent the
>> letter from Bruce to the printer, with the bios and statements.
>>
>> That turned out to be a good thing. Bios and statements were not included
>> with the ballots mailed out, at all.
>>
>> If we had not sent the letter, then name recognition would be the primary
>> factor. We were running against well-known people.
>>
>> We complained about this. It was unusual departure from the past and
>> seemed
>> set up to let leadership benefit from being incumbents.
>>
>> The original proposal from Clayton was for an electronic only ballot.
>> Patrick said that the bylaws were a bit clunky here and it did need to be
>> mailed out on paper. Paper was required.
>>
>> This is a big reason why I made a motion at our one  board meeting, in
>> March, for a bylaws committee.
>>
>> This bylaw isn't hard to fix. There's lots of examples out there of
>> organizations doing electronic voting with working published bylaws.
>>
>> Bruce made it very clear, when the incumbents stirred up the pot about the
>> return address, that it was an endorsement from him, this was commonly
>> done
>> in political campaigns, and it would be grossly improper for me to use
>> AMSATs return address because that would make it look like Bruce was
>> speaking for or was from AMSAT. That was not going to happen. *That* would
>> be improper.
>>
>> No one candidate wanted their personal address used as a return address.
>> We
>> were mailing this as a slate and splitting the cost. We didn't have time
>> or
>> funds to make an organization or rent a box for one letter on short
>> notice.
>> The printer required a real return address.
>>
>> No one had the address list except the candidates. Namely me because I
>> contracted the printer and handled the DBASE4 address conversion. That is
>> a
>> neat story in and of itself,, for another time.
>>
>> Bruce only sent the text to me and chipped in some money for postage.
>>
>> The printing was automated in Van Nuys, CA.
>>
>> All of this is known to Clayton Coleman and his friends on the board that
>> signed the statement from this week. It has been explained by Bruce
>> publicly, and by me several times on social media. Tom Clark brought it up
>> at the 2019 annual board meeting because of the return address
>> pot-stirring. I explained it there too. Like I said, it's on the record.
>>
>> I think insinuating the addresses were mishandled is a deliberate twisting
>> of honest efforts to scramble to get uncensored candidate statements out
>> to
>> voters on short notice. We just didn't have a lot of time, and Bruce was
>> very generous in writing a cover letter.
>>
>> Again, candidates are allowed the use of the mailing lists for election
>> purposes.
>>
>> So, no, there was no breach. Clayton knows all this.
>>
>> Saying it the way he did is a cheap shot at me, Patrick, Bruce Perens, and
>> ORI.
>>
>>  -Michelle W5NYV
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 19:11 Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >   Hello All,
>> >
>> >    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we all
>> > received as members.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
>> >
>> > I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed
>> before.
>> >
>> > "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to
>> > Open Research Institute."
>> >
>> >     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a serious
>> > breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?
>> > was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say
>> > "out in the wind"?
>> >
>> > Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how
>> > ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something
>> > that was procured online?
>> >
>> > AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it
>> > found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in
>> > the future.
>> >
>> >
>> > I look forward to an answer
>> >
>> > 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions
>> > expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> > AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>

From va3mw at portcredit.net  Mon Jul 13 14:32:12 2020
From: va3mw at portcredit.net (Michael Walker)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 10:32:12 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Enough of this!
In-Reply-To: <9FAF30CD7B0F4AA98182236F62BFBB62@DESKTOPL0IAS8B>
References: <AM0PR01MB6100D154A0C5A37C2F0DEEA0E5600@AM0PR01MB6100.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<9FAF30CD7B0F4AA98182236F62BFBB62@DESKTOPL0IAS8B>
Message-ID: <CA+33ts4Gt8uVe-cMyaHp6NR=sMNHLvumcPk=8cJZLPiq64qkxA@mail.gmail.com>

There always is the delete key.

However, as an AMSAT member, I welcome this vehicle to be able to follow
what is going on.

Mike va3mw


On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 10:18 AM Glenn Miller AA5PK via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Couldn't agree more, Meeko.
>
> Glenn
> AA5PK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Meeko Kittika via AMSAT-BB
> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 1:11 AM
> To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Enough of this!
>
> I'm from Amsat-UK land and completely disgusted with this pantomime.
>
> I'm un-subscribing because I came here to discuss and learn about amateur
> satellites with like minded individuals.  I was
> wrong apparently. What I'm witnessing is a mess. Sort yourselves out! You
> do a disservice to the hobby.
>
> Meeko
> M0FVD
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From johnbrier at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 14:35:29 2020
From: johnbrier at gmail.com (John Brier)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 10:35:29 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Gravitas
In-Reply-To: <47852A8D-A8B9-40D2-B6A2-720CE4ECD7D2@mac.com>
References: <47852A8D-A8B9-40D2-B6A2-720CE4ECD7D2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CALn0fKPEJ7HdoiB_bF+87aJHx_bT-=im3ZAWOmEQ_aBcV6XaaQ@mail.gmail.com>

It might be too late to get a ballot if you aren't already a member.
Still worth becoming a member though!

73, John Brier KG4AKV

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 10:29 AM Jeff Davis via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Respect and trust are things not easily earned from people we almost never see. It?s not difficult for me to respect and trust my wife having lived with her for 42 years. Politicians and BoD members aren?t like that. We often barely know them so any decision about who to vote for or who to trust when conflicts arise is generally something of a gamble.
>
> But in this case the "explanation letter" issued by AMSAT was signed by some people I've trusted for years, especially Dr. Tom Clark and Keith Baker whose signatures lend considerable gravitas to the response.
>
> That said, I?m satisfied with the response and have made up my mind about the choices in the coming election I intend to make. I hope you all have too. And for those non-members who have kicked up considerable chaff here on the -BB, I invite you to turn your angst, whatever it might be, into action by joining AMSAT and have a vote in the matter. Otherwise, you?re just ranting with into the wind for no reason other than to hear your own voice?
>
> https://www.amsat.org/join-amsat/ <https://www.amsat.org/join-amsat/>
>
>
> Jeff, KE9V
> AMSAT 28350
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From pinoleronica at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 13 14:43:33 2020
From: pinoleronica at hotmail.com (Rafael Pena)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 14:43:33 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Back after a 2 yr absence
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6647.1594644904.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.6647.1594644904.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <DM5PR03MB3228CE8E0909C1E027EB6C30C6600@DM5PR03MB3228.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Saludos Armando.   Pues buscate un lector ( "reader")  para que dijieras todo lo que ha pasado en este tiempo de ausencia....espero escucharte en los sat algun dia desde Washington, DC

Rafael / NN3RP


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 01:57:45 -0400
From: Armando Mercado <am25544 at gmail.com>
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Back after a 2 yr absence
Message-ID:
        <CAOgooFkH6TK5L=zMEvg7qis17gh-QOz1T2UVT3361i1=SNPN_Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

I recently renewed my membership.  Looks like I have a lot of catching up
to do.
 Armando, N8IGJ


------------------------------

From pgprendergast at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 13 14:44:39 2020
From: pgprendergast at yahoo.com (Peter)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 14:44:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Reading is fundamental
References: <1662986521.829843.1594651479690.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1662986521.829843.1594651479690@mail.yahoo.com>

So, I have spent nearly four hours READING all that is publicly available including the blogs and myriad emails available here or referenced with linksfrom here.?
I'll go to the end of the story then back up.
After reading all that is cited above, its clear to me that the two new board members have exaggerated greatly the degree of wrong doingon the part of the board.??
It also seems clear that the board agreed to spend 10k to defend themselves against potential legal action from these two board members who then turn around and claim thesemonies were spent irresponsibly (see the initial email regarding Leadership).? These funds were spent, in the main, to seek advice on how to proceed, and to create new, formerly nonexistent AMSAT polices to guidefuture administrative conduct.? This latter goal was apparently long over due and proprietous.
However, its also clear the legal fees exceeded the initially authorized amount of 10k? ?This overage is understandable, dealing with issues like this you tendto get tunnel vision trying to sort this all out and within a few days you run over the limit.? I'm not even sure this overage is in any way improper? Had it been 50k well, yes, but 4 or 5k is really not a major issue.Additionally, it seems, again from all the emails that no formal vote was held to authorize these additional monies.? We're leftto conclude that casual conversations were had that authorized these funds.? No one has said this that I could find, perhaps?some clarity on that point would help?
When the treasurer says no dues were used, I think that is misleading, the point of concern wasn't what pot the monies came from but instead thattheir were resources used that could have been used productively elsewhere had their been tighter supervision of the legal activity.? Again, its easyto run over with lawyers and not realize it, this overage doesn't rise to the level or even close to it, of criminal behavior.? Describing this overage inthose terms is disgraceful and reckless
So, the board was initially off put by the blogs I read.? That is not an unreasonable response.? Could/should more dialogue have?been engaged in?? Why yes it should have.? This absence of reported deep dive dialogue is troubling, but may or may not havelead to a different outcome. Regardless, more dialogue should have happened, the board's credibility would have been enhanced?by trying to sort out what the new directors wanted.? I fault the board for not doing this, or if they did, I didn't see it in these writings.
I am left with the impression that the two board members are folks who thrive on confrontation while spinning,? in these emailsup here, that they are really interested in "transparency"? I am convinced this is not the case.? I draw all my conclusions on the postings here and thelinks to other cites contained within, and the blogs found by the same means.
I feel that Stoddard and Thomspson should resign immediately,? for in reading all this, I feel they have exaggerated the degree of misconduct and caused considerableharm to the reputation of AMSAT in the process,? as is evident from the emails and posting on this BBS.
To the credit of Stoddard and Thompson, it appears that AMSAT has not been run, from an administrative side of things, in a professional manner. Missing HR policiesand no evidence I can find of consultation with business leaders on how to operate a complex organization, is deeply bothersome.?
Further, an outside review is totally appropriate here.? Consider, that had their been policies in place before all of this happened, lawyers would not have been needed.What OTHER policies are missing?? What procedures are in place to audit the organization?? Are the books reviewed by an outside CPA for instance?The credibility of AMSAT needs to be bolstered and having an expert consultant come in and review all of these potential areas is apparently way over due.?That AMSAT lacks proper HR policies after this many years in business is deeply troubling and suggests a more professional operating standard is desperately needed here.

Before you pontificate or provide character references for the current board you have an obligation to READ all this stuff, its wearisome, tedious and takes a long time.I read it, YOU should read it BEFORE you go off and make draconian statements.? .

PeterW2PPLife Member


From propgrinder at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 14:49:01 2020
From: propgrinder at gmail.com (Bob Hammond)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 07:49:01 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Gravitas
In-Reply-To: <47852A8D-A8B9-40D2-B6A2-720CE4ECD7D2@mac.com>
References: <47852A8D-A8B9-40D2-B6A2-720CE4ECD7D2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAKoB7Oo+JLf-F5XKLfuAQ7FyLdcWnXu3NRHePtLCVvdAENrjsw@mail.gmail.com>

I agree.  I just rejoined AMSAT as a Life Member.

Bob W7OTJ
Member # 33378


On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 7:29 AM Jeff Davis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Respect and trust are things not easily earned from people we almost never
> see. It?s not difficult for me to respect and trust my wife having lived
> with her for 42 years. Politicians and BoD members aren?t like that. We
> often barely know them so any decision about who to vote for or who to
> trust when conflicts arise is generally something of a gamble.
>
> But in this case the "explanation letter" issued by AMSAT was signed by
> some people I've trusted for years, especially Dr. Tom Clark and Keith
> Baker whose signatures lend considerable gravitas to the response.
>
> That said, I?m satisfied with the response and have made up my mind about
> the choices in the coming election I intend to make. I hope you all have
> too. And for those non-members who have kicked up considerable chaff here
> on the -BB, I invite you to turn your angst, whatever it might be, into
> action by joining AMSAT and have a vote in the matter. Otherwise, you?re
> just ranting with into the wind for no reason other than to hear your own
> voice?
>
> https://www.amsat.org/join-amsat/ <https://www.amsat.org/join-amsat/>
>
>
> Jeff, KE9V
> AMSAT 28350
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From almetco at comcast.net  Mon Jul 13 14:49:56 2020
From: almetco at comcast.net (Greg)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 10:49:56 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <CAPOM0dm1zQwE6puntpn8=gsO3rvWsurEq8XodVvkHsQH2=9WGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1712165007.494111.1594583328598.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1712165007.494111.1594583328598@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CADkz4c8eeEfCHORcgar3C3AXxGaTuJkLWb3yMkT3FHcpv1ENWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CH2PR12MB38930FA8A6FAEA2AAABBA3BDA9600@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAPOM0dm1zQwE6puntpn8=gsO3rvWsurEq8XodVvkHsQH2=9WGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E7E93051-9A38-41FC-AAA8-ACD745F8670C@comcast.net>

Again, after being absent for a few years than rejoining AMSAT last month, this is disheartening. 

 BUT, what is really disheartening is that the directors say they are here for the members.  Well, if that is the case and you give a crap about the members then give us the BB back and quit monopolizing it with your remarks against the others.  

Put you big people pants on and deal with it via telephone, teleconference etc the way many of us in the C suite had to do in the ?real world." Then make it a campaign item WHEN elections roll around.  

The ironic part is if you ignore my request and other members request asking for this to end on the board, then you really don't care about the members and showed your true colors. 

Greg
N3MVF




On Jul 13, 2020, at 12:40 AM, Kenneth P Alexander via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

Sure Chad,

I'll consider supporting Amsat again as soon as this mess is cleaned up and
everyone is satisfied with the outcome, whichever way it goes.

Ken, VE3HLS
So Phisai, Thailand
Blog:  bueng-ken.com

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 08:58 Chad KG0MW via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Joseph you are right. As much as the BoD needs to promote AMSAT, we as
> members need to stand up promote AMSAT and show our support. The more
> support we show, hopefully the sooner we can get back to actual
> constructive conversation.
> 
> Chad
> 
> 
> ?On 7/12/20, 4:22 PM, "AMSAT-BB on behalf of Joseph Armbruster via
> AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org on behalf of amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
> 
>    Brad,
> 
>    What transparency and progress has been brought to the organization
>    from the members that you speak of?  Specifically?  It appears that
>    since they were voted in, everyone in the organization is now walking
>    on egg-shells. The BB is now plastered with emails asking which words
>    mean what feelings, name calling and chasing after the organization
>    using whatever legal means the wizards-of-smart can conjure up all in
>    the name of almighty, all-righeous, '''transparency'''. It all seems
>    rather insincere and unproductive to me.  People like this should do
>    the organization a favor, and leave, run their own competing
>    organization and take whatever people and dollars happen to follow
>    them.
> 
>    I would honestly like to return to the ARISSat-1 days, where it was
>    just full-speed-ahead engineering and not all this talk all about
>    'saving AMSAT' and ORI garbage.  All this ORI promotion on the BB, is
>    absolute garbage.  No rational AMSAT member should be OK with that,
>    especially from an AMSAT BOD member.  ORI is a separate, competing
>    organization and their bylaws are..... telling.  If AMSATs bylaws were
>    ever amended to be anything like those, you can kiss your membership
>    goodbye, ref: https://openresearch.institute/organization-documents.
>    Their bylaws literally say "Membership shall consist of the Board of
>    Directors.".  Quite an Open organization, indeed!
> 
>    But I digress... The more of these kinds of people you vote in, the
>    more the organization is going to be hurt, guaranteed. Because not
>    only is nothing going to get done, obviously some people don't want to
>    work with them for whatever-reasons and THAT actually is important.
>    And, the reasons are important too.  Have you wondered why...?  I do!
>    As a small business owner, when I hear such-and-such doesn't want to
>    work with so-and-so, I immediately want to ask "What happened"?  From
>    what the email traffic looks like, it seems like you may have to worry
>    about legal action for everything you say or do around them or, maybe
>    there was some pre-election history that most of the people that voted
>    for them, didn't know about.  I have no clue, but this all does make
>    me wonder.
> 
>    Either way, it seems like the state of things right now is Much Worst
>    than it was prior-to the last election, so... Not sure why anyone
>    would want more of this.  For me, the socio-political environment is
>    just as important as the engi-nerding portion..  At the very least,
>    BOD members need to be promoting the organization they are on the
>    board of and noone should have to worry about legal retaliation over
>    every little thing.
> 
>    Joseph Armbruster
>    KJ4JIO
> 
>    On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 3:58 PM Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB
>    <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> 
>> If you care about the AMSAT organization continuing to help hams in
> space communications, please read and reread Patrick's and Michelle's
> explanations.  They layout exactly what happened. Now we learn that the
> expenditure is over 16k. That is 363 memberships, if this retired
> engineer's math is correct. This is money wasted to beat down two members
> who want transparency and progress. This was not right. Our money was
> wasted! I am anxious for the election.
>> 
>> Again, I ask that members do not resign over this. That helps nobody
> and hurts out hobby, which has already taken a huge hit. Solve this with
> your voting privilege.
>> 
>> 73 Brad KC9UQR
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
>> Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>    _______________________________________________
>    Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>    to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
>    are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of AMSAT-NA.
>    Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
>    Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From kg5gjt at cox.net  Mon Jul 13 14:59:18 2020
From: kg5gjt at cox.net (Brian Karcher)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 10:59:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6647.1594644904.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.6647.1594644904.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <1984320037.797478.1594652358770@myemail.cox.net>

I thought being a member of AMSAT was about keeping amateur radio in space, learning about satellites and for some of us working amateur radio satellites in space.  Since the last election AMSAT seems to be about nothing but politics and misinformation.  In my opinion AMSAT was a lot more fun to be apart of before the last election.  All the politics and misinformation drives people away from AMSAT and is not good for the organization.  I have been told in the past by one of the new board members that all of this is necessary for change to happen.  I don't see that AMSAT has to go through some fundamental change or movement.  I am tired of the new AMSAT since the last election.  I am seriously considering not renewing my membership and I know plenty of other that are considering the same.  When will all of this end so we can start enjoying AMSAT again and working satellites?  

Brian D. Karcher
KG5GJT
        
> On July 13, 2020 at 8:55 AM amsat-bb-request at amsat.org wrote:
> 
> 
> Send AMSAT-BB mailing list submissions to
> 	amsat-bb at amsat.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	amsat-bb-request at amsat.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	amsat-bb-owner at amsat.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of AMSAT-BB digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Back after a 2 yr absence (Armando Mercado)
>    2. Re: AMSAT Member Mailing list (Michelle Thompson)
>    3. Re: AMSAT Member Mailing list (David Swanson)
>    4. Re: AMSAT Member Mailing list (Hans BX2ABT)
>    5.  AMSAT Member Mailing list (Bruce Perens)
>    6. Re: AMSAT Member Mailing list (Bruce Perens)
>    7. Re: AMSAT Member Mailing list (Bruce Perens)
>    8. Re: AMSAT Member Mailing list (Bruce Perens)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 01:57:45 -0400
> From: Armando Mercado <am25544 at gmail.com>
> To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Back after a 2 yr absence
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAOgooFkH6TK5L=zMEvg7qis17gh-QOz1T2UVT3361i1=SNPN_Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> I recently renewed my membership.  Looks like I have a lot of catching up
> to do.
>  Armando, N8IGJ
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 03:29:49 -0700
> From: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle at gmail.com>
> To: Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com>
> Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
> Message-ID:
> 	<CACvjz2U2fCYU4r8fLYE49HG80VHCRh9_LyW-5QQ5JP-cdNkUsA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> Yes, I can.
> 
> That part of Clayton's letter is wrong and has been repeatedly clarified
> before. Including at the 2019 annual board meeting, where Tom Clark asked
> me about it, as part of the record.
> 
> Clayton Coleman was secretary in 2019.
> 
> He ran the election.
> 
> He decided that candidate statements were limited in length to 350 words,
> would be subject to editorial control by AMSAT, and could not include
> links. These new rules were given to us right before the 4th of July
> holiday with a deadline of the 7th.
> 
> This is different than any election before, where statements went directly
> to the printer from the candidate, were not limited in length, and no one
> from AMSAT leadership (who might be running for reelection themselves) had
> any control over the content of their challengers' statements.
> 
> We got these rules right before ballots went out. We (four challengers)
> already had normal-sized statements on the web and they had been up six
> weeks at that point. Those were the ones we wanted to use, and link to.
> 
> We knew that as candidates, we had the right to request the mailing list,
> and send our own statements, independent of the ballot.
> 
> I requested the address list and got the DBASE4 export.
> 
> Bruce Perens had already written a letter of support and distributed it
> widely on the web. It introduced us and included our four full bios and
> statements.
> 
> I asked Bruce if we could use his letter in the mailing. He said yes. Since
> he was President of Open Research Institute at the time, he wanted the
> return address to not be his private home address, but a business address.
> That was ORI's address. He was the author of the endorsement, so I used his
> preferred return address.
> 
> I converted the DBASE4 to a more useful format, fixed the 50 or so
> undeliverable addresses, and found an inexpensive printer. Then I sent the
> letter from Bruce to the printer, with the bios and statements.
> 
> That turned out to be a good thing. Bios and statements were not included
> with the ballots mailed out, at all.
> 
> If we had not sent the letter, then name recognition would be the primary
> factor. We were running against well-known people.
> 
> We complained about this. It was unusual departure from the past and seemed
> set up to let leadership benefit from being incumbents.
> 
> The original proposal from Clayton was for an electronic only ballot.
> Patrick said that the bylaws were a bit clunky here and it did need to be
> mailed out on paper. Paper was required.
> 
> This is a big reason why I made a motion at our one  board meeting, in
> March, for a bylaws committee.
> 
> This bylaw isn't hard to fix. There's lots of examples out there of
> organizations doing electronic voting with working published bylaws.
> 
> Bruce made it very clear, when the incumbents stirred up the pot about the
> return address, that it was an endorsement from him, this was commonly done
> in political campaigns, and it would be grossly improper for me to use
> AMSATs return address because that would make it look like Bruce was
> speaking for or was from AMSAT. That was not going to happen. *That* would
> be improper.
> 
> No one candidate wanted their personal address used as a return address. We
> were mailing this as a slate and splitting the cost. We didn't have time or
> funds to make an organization or rent a box for one letter on short notice.
> The printer required a real return address.
> 
> No one had the address list except the candidates. Namely me because I
> contracted the printer and handled the DBASE4 address conversion. That is a
> neat story in and of itself,, for another time.
> 
> Bruce only sent the text to me and chipped in some money for postage.
> 
> The printing was automated in Van Nuys, CA.
> 
> All of this is known to Clayton Coleman and his friends on the board that
> signed the statement from this week. It has been explained by Bruce
> publicly, and by me several times on social media. Tom Clark brought it up
> at the 2019 annual board meeting because of the return address
> pot-stirring. I explained it there too. Like I said, it's on the record.
> 
> I think insinuating the addresses were mishandled is a deliberate twisting
> of honest efforts to scramble to get uncensored candidate statements out to
> voters on short notice. We just didn't have a lot of time, and Bruce was
> very generous in writing a cover letter.
> 
> Again, candidates are allowed the use of the mailing lists for election
> purposes.
> 
> So, no, there was no breach. Clayton knows all this.
> 
> Saying it the way he did is a cheap shot at me, Patrick, Bruce Perens, and
> ORI.
> 
>  -Michelle W5NYV
> 
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 19:11 Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> >   Hello All,
> >
> >    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we all
> > received as members.
> >
> >
> > https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
> >
> > I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed before.
> >
> > "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to
> > Open Research Institute."
> >
> >     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a serious
> > breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?
> > was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say
> > "out in the wind"?
> >
> > Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how
> > ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something
> > that was procured online?
> >
> > AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it
> > found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in
> > the future.
> >
> >
> > I look forward to an answer
> >
> > 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 06:32:38 -0500
> From: David Swanson <dave at druidnetworks.com>
> To: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle at gmail.com>
> Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
> Message-ID:
> 	<CANq+eyWHQ8o369h6=fqi1PJLWuMGP-1dTVj5Oej2CstAPY8S-w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> Spin Spin Spin. The simple truth here is Director Thompson took the AMSAT
> member database, and handed it over to a 3rd party competing entity for the
> purpose of solicitation. I know I did not give ORI my home address, yet ORI
> sent me a letter. This was a violation of my privacy, and for AMSAT
> members living in the EU, this was a violation of the law. Any attempt to
> explain this away is just more lies and deceit from Director Thompson about
> the shady practices they have engaged in over the past few years. As I keep
> saying, this isn't a one time thing, this is a pattern of
> reprehensible behavior that is unbecoming of an elected position and this
> community. Director Thompson and Director Stoddard should resign.
> 
> -Dave, KG5CCI
> 
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:33 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> > Yes, I can.
> >
> > That part of Clayton's letter is wrong and has been repeatedly clarified
> > before. Including at the 2019 annual board meeting, where Tom Clark asked
> > me about it, as part of the record.
> >
> > Clayton Coleman was secretary in 2019.
> >
> > He ran the election.
> >
> > He decided that candidate statements were limited in length to 350 words,
> > would be subject to editorial control by AMSAT, and could not include
> > links. These new rules were given to us right before the 4th of July
> > holiday with a deadline of the 7th.
> >
> > This is different than any election before, where statements went directly
> > to the printer from the candidate, were not limited in length, and no one
> > from AMSAT leadership (who might be running for reelection themselves) had
> > any control over the content of their challengers' statements.
> >
> > We got these rules right before ballots went out. We (four challengers)
> > already had normal-sized statements on the web and they had been up six
> > weeks at that point. Those were the ones we wanted to use, and link to.
> >
> > We knew that as candidates, we had the right to request the mailing list,
> > and send our own statements, independent of the ballot.
> >
> > I requested the address list and got the DBASE4 export.
> >
> > Bruce Perens had already written a letter of support and distributed it
> > widely on the web. It introduced us and included our four full bios and
> > statements.
> >
> > I asked Bruce if we could use his letter in the mailing. He said yes. Since
> > he was President of Open Research Institute at the time, he wanted the
> > return address to not be his private home address, but a business address.
> > That was ORI's address. He was the author of the endorsement, so I used his
> > preferred return address.
> >
> > I converted the DBASE4 to a more useful format, fixed the 50 or so
> > undeliverable addresses, and found an inexpensive printer. Then I sent the
> > letter from Bruce to the printer, with the bios and statements.
> >
> > That turned out to be a good thing. Bios and statements were not included
> > with the ballots mailed out, at all.
> >
> > If we had not sent the letter, then name recognition would be the primary
> > factor. We were running against well-known people.
> >
> > We complained about this. It was unusual departure from the past and seemed
> > set up to let leadership benefit from being incumbents.
> >
> > The original proposal from Clayton was for an electronic only ballot.
> > Patrick said that the bylaws were a bit clunky here and it did need to be
> > mailed out on paper. Paper was required.
> >
> > This is a big reason why I made a motion at our one  board meeting, in
> > March, for a bylaws committee.
> >
> > This bylaw isn't hard to fix. There's lots of examples out there of
> > organizations doing electronic voting with working published bylaws.
> >
> > Bruce made it very clear, when the incumbents stirred up the pot about the
> > return address, that it was an endorsement from him, this was commonly done
> > in political campaigns, and it would be grossly improper for me to use
> > AMSATs return address because that would make it look like Bruce was
> > speaking for or was from AMSAT. That was not going to happen. *That* would
> > be improper.
> >
> > No one candidate wanted their personal address used as a return address. We
> > were mailing this as a slate and splitting the cost. We didn't have time or
> > funds to make an organization or rent a box for one letter on short notice.
> > The printer required a real return address.
> >
> > No one had the address list except the candidates. Namely me because I
> > contracted the printer and handled the DBASE4 address conversion. That is a
> > neat story in and of itself,, for another time.
> >
> > Bruce only sent the text to me and chipped in some money for postage.
> >
> > The printing was automated in Van Nuys, CA.
> >
> > All of this is known to Clayton Coleman and his friends on the board that
> > signed the statement from this week. It has been explained by Bruce
> > publicly, and by me several times on social media. Tom Clark brought it up
> > at the 2019 annual board meeting because of the return address
> > pot-stirring. I explained it there too. Like I said, it's on the record.
> >
> > I think insinuating the addresses were mishandled is a deliberate twisting
> > of honest efforts to scramble to get uncensored candidate statements out to
> > voters on short notice. We just didn't have a lot of time, and Bruce was
> > very generous in writing a cover letter.
> >
> > Again, candidates are allowed the use of the mailing lists for election
> > purposes.
> >
> > So, no, there was no breach. Clayton knows all this.
> >
> > Saying it the way he did is a cheap shot at me, Patrick, Bruce Perens, and
> > ORI.
> >
> >  -Michelle W5NYV
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 19:11 Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > >   Hello All,
> > >
> > >    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we all
> > > received as members.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
> > >
> > > I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed before.
> > >
> > > "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to
> > > Open Research Institute."
> > >
> > >     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a serious
> > > breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?
> > > was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say
> > > "out in the wind"?
> > >
> > > Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how
> > > ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something
> > > that was procured online?
> > >
> > > AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it
> > > found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in
> > > the future.
> > >
> > >
> > > I look forward to an answer
> > >
> > > 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions
> > > expressed
> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 20:02:25 +0800
> From: Hans BX2ABT <hans.bx2abt at msa.hinet.net>
> To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
> Message-ID: <4c8da5db-cddd-e51e-0b26-9142c1787528 at msa.hinet.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> On 7/13/20 7:32 PM, David Swanson via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > Spin Spin Spin.
> 
> I think this is the biggest problem in the world right now.
> 
> People simply don't want to believe each other any more, or even 
> entertain the thought that the "opponent" might be (partially) right or 
> acting in good faith. Mistakes cannot be forgiven, because they are 
> always made with malicious intent. And one's own actions are always 
> right, because the other party is always wrong.
> 
> The trenches are dug, the weapons are loaded: let's go to war.
> 
> In the meantime the Russians give us Sputnik RS-44 (almost MEO), the 
> Chinese shoot cool experiments into space (albeit with the quality of 
> most stuff made in China) and the Germans achieve the first 
> geo-stationary amateur payload. What does AMSAT-NA achieve? The world is 
> already shaking its head when the USA are mentioned because of how it 
> handles COVID-19. Now the amateur radio world laughs at how AMSAT-NA is 
> handling itself. To quote your great leader: "So sad!"
> 
> 73 de Hans (BX2ABT)
> 
> 
> P.S. not an AMSAT-NA member, just here to share and learn about 
> satellites. Now ducking for incoming flak.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > The simple truth here is Director Thompson took the AMSAT
> > member database, and handed it over to a 3rd party competing entity for the
> > purpose of solicitation. I know I did not give ORI my home address, yet ORI
> > sent me a letter. This was a violation of my privacy, and for AMSAT
> > members living in the EU, this was a violation of the law. Any attempt to
> > explain this away is just more lies and deceit from Director Thompson about
> > the shady practices they have engaged in over the past few years. As I keep
> > saying, this isn't a one time thing, this is a pattern of
> > reprehensible behavior that is unbecoming of an elected position and this
> > community. Director Thompson and Director Stoddard should resign.
> >
> > -Dave, KG5CCI
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:33 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Yes, I can.
> >>
> >> That part of Clayton's letter is wrong and has been repeatedly clarified
> >> before. Including at the 2019 annual board meeting, where Tom Clark asked
> >> me about it, as part of the record.
> >>
> >> Clayton Coleman was secretary in 2019.
> >>
> >> He ran the election.
> >>
> >> He decided that candidate statements were limited in length to 350 words,
> >> would be subject to editorial control by AMSAT, and could not include
> >> links. These new rules were given to us right before the 4th of July
> >> holiday with a deadline of the 7th.
> >>
> >> This is different than any election before, where statements went directly
> >> to the printer from the candidate, were not limited in length, and no one
> >> from AMSAT leadership (who might be running for reelection themselves) had
> >> any control over the content of their challengers' statements.
> >>
> >> We got these rules right before ballots went out. We (four challengers)
> >> already had normal-sized statements on the web and they had been up six
> >> weeks at that point. Those were the ones we wanted to use, and link to.
> >>
> >> We knew that as candidates, we had the right to request the mailing list,
> >> and send our own statements, independent of the ballot.
> >>
> >> I requested the address list and got the DBASE4 export.
> >>
> >> Bruce Perens had already written a letter of support and distributed it
> >> widely on the web. It introduced us and included our four full bios and
> >> statements.
> >>
> >> I asked Bruce if we could use his letter in the mailing. He said yes. Since
> >> he was President of Open Research Institute at the time, he wanted the
> >> return address to not be his private home address, but a business address.
> >> That was ORI's address. He was the author of the endorsement, so I used his
> >> preferred return address.
> >>
> >> I converted the DBASE4 to a more useful format, fixed the 50 or so
> >> undeliverable addresses, and found an inexpensive printer. Then I sent the
> >> letter from Bruce to the printer, with the bios and statements.
> >>
> >> That turned out to be a good thing. Bios and statements were not included
> >> with the ballots mailed out, at all.
> >>
> >> If we had not sent the letter, then name recognition would be the primary
> >> factor. We were running against well-known people.
> >>
> >> We complained about this. It was unusual departure from the past and seemed
> >> set up to let leadership benefit from being incumbents.
> >>
> >> The original proposal from Clayton was for an electronic only ballot.
> >> Patrick said that the bylaws were a bit clunky here and it did need to be
> >> mailed out on paper. Paper was required.
> >>
> >> This is a big reason why I made a motion at our one  board meeting, in
> >> March, for a bylaws committee.
> >>
> >> This bylaw isn't hard to fix. There's lots of examples out there of
> >> organizations doing electronic voting with working published bylaws.
> >>
> >> Bruce made it very clear, when the incumbents stirred up the pot about the
> >> return address, that it was an endorsement from him, this was commonly done
> >> in political campaigns, and it would be grossly improper for me to use
> >> AMSATs return address because that would make it look like Bruce was
> >> speaking for or was from AMSAT. That was not going to happen. *That* would
> >> be improper.
> >>
> >> No one candidate wanted their personal address used as a return address. We
> >> were mailing this as a slate and splitting the cost. We didn't have time or
> >> funds to make an organization or rent a box for one letter on short notice.
> >> The printer required a real return address.
> >>
> >> No one had the address list except the candidates. Namely me because I
> >> contracted the printer and handled the DBASE4 address conversion. That is a
> >> neat story in and of itself,, for another time.
> >>
> >> Bruce only sent the text to me and chipped in some money for postage.
> >>
> >> The printing was automated in Van Nuys, CA.
> >>
> >> All of this is known to Clayton Coleman and his friends on the board that
> >> signed the statement from this week. It has been explained by Bruce
> >> publicly, and by me several times on social media. Tom Clark brought it up
> >> at the 2019 annual board meeting because of the return address
> >> pot-stirring. I explained it there too. Like I said, it's on the record.
> >>
> >> I think insinuating the addresses were mishandled is a deliberate twisting
> >> of honest efforts to scramble to get uncensored candidate statements out to
> >> voters on short notice. We just didn't have a lot of time, and Bruce was
> >> very generous in writing a cover letter.
> >>
> >> Again, candidates are allowed the use of the mailing lists for election
> >> purposes.
> >>
> >> So, no, there was no breach. Clayton knows all this.
> >>
> >> Saying it the way he did is a cheap shot at me, Patrick, Bruce Perens, and
> >> ORI.
> >>
> >>   -Michelle W5NYV
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 19:11 Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>>    Hello All,
> >>>
> >>>     In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we all
> >>> received as members.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
> >>> I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed before.
> >>>
> >>> "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to
> >>> Open Research Institute."
> >>>
> >>>      Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a serious
> >>> breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?
> >>> was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say
> >>> "out in the wind"?
> >>>
> >>> Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how
> >>> ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something
> >>> that was procured online?
> >>>
> >>> AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it
> >>> found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in
> >>> the future.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I look forward to an answer
> >>>
> >>> 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions
> >>> expressed
> >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> >>> AMSAT-NA.
> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >> program!
> >>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> >> expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> >> AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 20:33:38 -0700
> From: Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com>
> To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: [amsat-bb]  AMSAT Member Mailing list
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAK2MWOs9Vjn46XSXiOt-a_453vZnObB5GsPF+RhZV7EuryDyLg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com>
> Date: Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 8:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
> To: Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com>
> 
> 
> The mailing list was never compromised. But my HOME address, under "Open
> Research Institute" was used as the return address. This was a mistake and
> I didn't ask for it. I was, however, the author of the mailer, in which I
> introduced the candidates. The mailing was done by a bulk Mail company and
> did not involve me. I got one returned letter, informed someone responsible
> who had a right to see that address, and promptly forgot it.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Bruce
> 
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 7:11 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> >   Hello All,
> >
> >    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we all
> > received as members.
> >
> >
> > https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
> >
> > I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed before.
> >
> > "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to
> > Open Research Institute."
> >
> >     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a serious
> > breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?
> > was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say
> > "out in the wind"?
> >
> > Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how
> > ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something
> > that was procured online?
> >
> > AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it
> > found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in
> > the future.
> >
> >
> > I look forward to an answer
> >
> > 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 21:08:35 -0700
> From: Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com>
> To: Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com>, AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAK2MWOskn_hhT4MpdhwQ2-nz7P44u+SUVuYvr-PYd7P8k3-ARw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> The candidates are allowed the use of the mailing list for their campaign.
> If you read the bylaws, they make it very clear. One of the candidates did
> all of the handling of the mailing list.
> 
> Incidentally, the board was not aware that they had to give the mailing
> list to the candidates. This was something the candidates had to tell them,
> after I read the bylaws. Had the board run things the way they desired,
> only a board controlled 200 word statement would have reached you from the
> candidates, except for the incumbents, who have had free use of AMSAT's
> official publications to carry their opinions.
> 
> In a more perfect world, the board would have known their own bylaws, or at
> least the secretary who was running the election would have read them.
> 
> But in a more perfect world, two people were trying to reform the
> organization with not face quite this uphill a battle.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Bruce
> 
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:00 PM Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Well how did the bulk mailing company get the AMSAT member mailing list if
> > AMSAT did not provide it?
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> >
> > On 7/12/2020 8:32 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
> >
> > The mailing list was never compromised. But my HOME address, under "Open
> > Research Institute" was used as the return address. This was a mistake and
> > I didn't ask for it. I was, however, the author of the mailer, in which I
> > introduced the candidates. The mailing was done by a bulk Mail company and
> > did not involve me. I got one returned letter, informed someone responsible
> > who had a right to see that address, and promptly forgot it.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 7:11 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>   Hello All,
> >>
> >>    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we all
> >> received as members.
> >>
> >>
> >> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
> >>
> >> I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed before.
> >>
> >> "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to
> >> Open Research Institute."
> >>
> >>     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a serious
> >> breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?
> >> was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say
> >> "out in the wind"?
> >>
> >> Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how
> >> ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something
> >> that was procured online?
> >>
> >> AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it
> >> found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in
> >> the future.
> >>
> >>
> >> I look forward to an answer
> >>
> >> 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> >> AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>
> >
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 21:48:21 -0700
> From: Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com>
> To: Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com>
> Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAK2MWOu-sb=r3bn14TwkT37m_LVhhj+rGrMHM90O0O_nQkjYuw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> Kevin,
> 
> No, I never saw the mailing list . I didn't do the mailing . I only wrote
> the content .
> 
> So, why was I involved at all ?
> 
> I won't say I'm the best tech evangelist you know, because that is for
> other people to judge. However, if you count the Open Source movement in
> software; the campaign for the elimination of the Morse code requirement
> for Amateur Radio licenses, which among other things I got on the front
> page of the New York Times, above the fold; My work to help elect a new
> ARRL board to end the confidentiality versus transparency debacle; And my
> global appearance for IBM's "Dear Tech", campaign, which got at least 50000
> television and Internet airplays;
> 
> If you count all those things, I am probably the person you want
> introducing you as a candidate, and I might be a good person to tell you
> how to run a campaign.
> 
> As it happens I wrote my own campaign, which I was going to put out under
> my own name, endorsing those candidates. And then the candidates chose to
> use it as their main campaign statement. This was very flattering and
> entirely their own choice.
> 
> As an ARRL member, it was my right to participate in their election, and it
> is my right to participate in AMSAT's.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Bruce K6BP
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:29 PM Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Bruce,
> >    So hang on a moment, you're telling me that the candidates are allowed
> > to use the mailing list for their campaign (fine), but rather than them
> > doing it themselves they turned the task over to you? So you were in
> > possession of the mailing list and then you turned it over to the bulk
> > mailing center when you authored the mailer?
> >
> > Kevin WA7FWF #19623
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 7/12/2020 9:08 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
> >
> > The candidates are allowed the use of the mailing list for their campaign.
> > If you read the bylaws, they make it very clear. One of the candidates did
> > all of the handling of the mailing list.
> >
> > Incidentally, the board was not aware that they had to give the mailing
> > list to the candidates. This was something the candidates had to tell them,
> > after I read the bylaws. Had the board run things the way they desired,
> > only a board controlled 200 word statement would have reached you from the
> > candidates, except for the incumbents, who have had free use of AMSAT's
> > official publications to carry their opinions.
> >
> > In a more perfect world, the board would have known their own bylaws, or
> > at least the secretary who was running the election would have read them.
> >
> > But in a more perfect world, two people were trying to reform the
> > organization with not face quite this uphill a battle.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:00 PM Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Well how did the bulk mailing company get the AMSAT member mailing list
> >> if AMSAT did not provide it?
> >>
> >> Kevin
> >>
> >>
> >> On 7/12/2020 8:32 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
> >>
> >> The mailing list was never compromised. But my HOME address, under "Open
> >> Research Institute" was used as the return address. This was a mistake and
> >> I didn't ask for it. I was, however, the author of the mailer, in which I
> >> introduced the candidates. The mailing was done by a bulk Mail company and
> >> did not involve me. I got one returned letter, informed someone responsible
> >> who had a right to see that address, and promptly forgot it.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Bruce
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 7:11 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>   Hello All,
> >>>
> >>>    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we all
> >>> received as members.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
> >>>
> >>> I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed before.
> >>>
> >>> "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to
> >>> Open Research Institute."
> >>>
> >>>     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a serious
> >>> breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?
> >>> was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say
> >>> "out in the wind"?
> >>>
> >>> Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how
> >>> ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something
> >>> that was procured online?
> >>>
> >>> AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it
> >>> found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in
> >>> the future.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I look forward to an answer
> >>>
> >>> 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >>> Opinions expressed
> >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> >>> AMSAT-NA.
> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >>> program!
> >>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 22:30:29 -0700
> From: Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com>
> To: Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com>
> Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAK2MWOsYiCqnWi8igTOnVC-vh_Xo=yFtZKYgwwgnzYF-6qNfPQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> The candidate felt that since I wrote the letter, that the return address
> should be mine. I didn't ask for it, I especially did not ask for my home
> address, which is not in the call book, to be used. As it happens, I found
> out about one silent key member in the return mail, which I passed on and
> promptly forgot. I work for lawyers all day in my consulting business, and
> thus I read the rules, I understand the rules, I follow the rules. These
> are not, by the way, Robert's Rules of Order. These are things like what a
> director is responsible for, and how to run an election. It really bothers
> me that the incumbents didn't know those rules.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Bruce
> 
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 10:11 PM Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Well Bruce,
> >
> >    Something doesn't jive here,  " I didn't do the mailing . I only wrote
> > the content "  then it seems the candidate would have been the person that
> > was dealing with the bulk mailer and would have had their return address
> > listed and it would not have been your home address on it.
> >
> >    Guess it's time to pick a different bulk mailer.
> >
> >
> > Kevin WA7FWF #19623
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 7/12/2020 9:48 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
> >
> > Kevin,
> >
> > No, I never saw the mailing list . I didn't do the mailing . I only wrote
> > the content .
> >
> > So, why was I involved at all ?
> >
> > I won't say I'm the best tech evangelist you know, because that is for
> > other people to judge. However, if you count the Open Source movement in
> > software; the campaign for the elimination of the Morse code requirement
> > for Amateur Radio licenses, which among other things I got on the front
> > page of the New York Times, above the fold; My work to help elect a new
> > ARRL board to end the confidentiality versus transparency debacle; And my
> > global appearance for IBM's "Dear Tech", campaign, which got at least 50000
> > television and Internet airplays;
> >
> > If you count all those things, I am probably the person you want
> > introducing you as a candidate, and I might be a good person to tell you
> > how to run a campaign.
> >
> > As it happens I wrote my own campaign, which I was going to put out under
> > my own name, endorsing those candidates. And then the candidates chose to
> > use it as their main campaign statement. This was very flattering and
> > entirely their own choice.
> >
> > As an ARRL member, it was my right to participate in their election, and
> > it is my right to participate in AMSAT's.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Bruce K6BP
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:29 PM Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Bruce,
> >>    So hang on a moment, you're telling me that the candidates are allowed
> >> to use the mailing list for their campaign (fine), but rather than them
> >> doing it themselves they turned the task over to you? So you were in
> >> possession of the mailing list and then you turned it over to the bulk
> >> mailing center when you authored the mailer?
> >>
> >> Kevin WA7FWF #19623
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 7/12/2020 9:08 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
> >>
> >> The candidates are allowed the use of the mailing list for their
> >> campaign. If you read the bylaws, they make it very clear. One of the
> >> candidates did all of the handling of the mailing list.
> >>
> >> Incidentally, the board was not aware that they had to give the mailing
> >> list to the candidates. This was something the candidates had to tell them,
> >> after I read the bylaws. Had the board run things the way they desired,
> >> only a board controlled 200 word statement would have reached you from the
> >> candidates, except for the incumbents, who have had free use of AMSAT's
> >> official publications to carry their opinions.
> >>
> >> In a more perfect world, the board would have known their own bylaws, or
> >> at least the secretary who was running the election would have read them.
> >>
> >> But in a more perfect world, two people were trying to reform the
> >> organization with not face quite this uphill a battle.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Bruce
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:00 PM Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Well how did the bulk mailing company get the AMSAT member mailing list
> >>> if AMSAT did not provide it?
> >>>
> >>> Kevin
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 7/12/2020 8:32 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The mailing list was never compromised. But my HOME address, under "Open
> >>> Research Institute" was used as the return address. This was a mistake and
> >>> I didn't ask for it. I was, however, the author of the mailer, in which I
> >>> introduced the candidates. The mailing was done by a bulk Mail company and
> >>> did not involve me. I got one returned letter, informed someone responsible
> >>> who had a right to see that address, and promptly forgot it.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> Bruce
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 7:11 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>   Hello All,
> >>>>
> >>>>    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we all
> >>>> received as members.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
> >>>>
> >>>> I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed
> >>>> before.
> >>>>
> >>>> "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to
> >>>> Open Research Institute."
> >>>>
> >>>>     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a
> >>>> serious
> >>>> breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?
> >>>> was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say
> >>>> "out in the wind"?
> >>>>
> >>>> Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how
> >>>> ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something
> >>>> that was procured online?
> >>>>
> >>>> AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it
> >>>> found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in
> >>>> the future.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I look forward to an answer
> >>>>
> >>>> 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >>>> Opinions expressed
> >>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> >>>> of AMSAT-NA.
> >>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >>>> program!
> >>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via amsat-bb at amsat.org.
> AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.  Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 241
> *****************************************

From jplanner at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jul 13 15:00:10 2020
From: jplanner at sbcglobal.net (Gerald Witalec)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 15:00:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] The SATS
References: <1565459593.833748.1594652410529.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1565459593.833748.1594652410529@mail.yahoo.com>

With all this hate and discontent going on, I have eight individuals who are interested inobtaining their Amateur Ham Radio License, but what they are seeing the bickeringon this board, they are now all on hold. Their interest was also in the satellites.

Jerry...W8RQM

From clintbradford at mac.com  Mon Jul 13 15:02:02 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 08:02:02 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Back after a 2 yr absence
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6647.1594644904.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.6647.1594644904.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <959E3916-D923-4DFB-B5B9-5943CDDB82D3@mac.com>

Me, too. Was just appointed as an AMSAT Ambassador.

Other than that, not much newsworthy lately from AMSAT-NA ?

(g)

Clint Bradford K6LCS
http://www.work-sat.com




> On Jul 13, 2020, at 5:55 AM, amsat-bb-request at amsat.org wrote:
> 
> Back after a 2 yr absence ...


From wa7fwf at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 15:04:52 2020
From: wa7fwf at gmail.com (Kevin)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 08:04:52 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Enough of this!
In-Reply-To: <9FAF30CD7B0F4AA98182236F62BFBB62@DESKTOPL0IAS8B>
References: <AM0PR01MB6100D154A0C5A37C2F0DEEA0E5600@AM0PR01MB6100.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<9FAF30CD7B0F4AA98182236F62BFBB62@DESKTOPL0IAS8B>
Message-ID: <1992f783-48e0-6d02-fbfb-0370310941b0@gmail.com>

Sorry Folks,? but some of this has to be hashed out before the next 
election and just burying it is not the way to go.

Might I suggest if it bothers you that badly to make use of the Amsat-BB 
archives where you can filter? by thread to avoid? it, or create some 
filter rules on your mail program and make us all disappear :)


73 Kevin wa7fwf #19623

On 7/13/2020 6:43 AM, Glenn Miller AA5PK via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Couldn't agree more, Meeko.
>
> Glenn
> AA5PK
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Meeko Kittika via AMSAT-BB
> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 1:11 AM
> To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Enough of this!
>
> I'm from Amsat-UK land and completely disgusted with this pantomime.
>
> I'm un-subscribing because I came here to discuss and learn about 
> amateur satellites with like minded individuals.? I was wrong 
> apparently. What I'm witnessing is a mess. Sort yourselves out! You do 
> a disservice to the hobby.
>
> Meeko
> M0FVD
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. 
> Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views 
> of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite 
> program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. 
> Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views 
> of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite 
> program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From russ.ramirez at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 15:08:01 2020
From: russ.ramirez at gmail.com (Russ Ramirez)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 10:08:01 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA, another perspective
Message-ID: <CAJgz9AY+ee-htyrHzRhrGbkW+bNkwkxrAF+KFR5bOnrCKiWDzA@mail.gmail.com>

I have been a member on/off since 2012. I have never been removed from this
AMSAT mailing list, but have not always been able to log into the AMSAT.org
web site. In spite of this, I have renewed my membership, typically at
Hamvention (until this year, but did so online), and made extra purchases
to support the work of AMSAT.

I definitely echo the message of Hans BX2ABT. Not everyone is bad, but
unfortunately too many are not good either.

When reading over each point of view of this ongoing dispute, it is not
very clear what started this dispute. In a statement in response to
allegations of financial mismanagement, Clayton wrote:







*AMSAT's corporate records give a full accounting of all expendituresand
are provided to its Directors upon request, in compliance with ourgoverning
documents and law of the District of Columbia (D.C.) Ouroffice remains
closed due to COVID-19, where those documents reside.Furthermore, AMSAT
complies with IRS rules for 501(c)(3) disclosure ofpublic financial
documents, such as the Form 990 available on theAMSAT website  *

The above statement is either wholly true, or gray, because making a
statement like this which is completely false would be illegal.

Michelle, you have claimed that you (and Patrick) were denied access to
financial transaction records upon your written request. Can we simply
focus on *what* specifically started this whole thing?

Russ Ramirez
K0WFS

From jean.marc.momple at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 15:25:32 2020
From: jean.marc.momple at gmail.com (Jean Marc Momple)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 19:25:32 +0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <4c8da5db-cddd-e51e-0b26-9142c1787528@msa.hinet.net>
References: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2U2fCYU4r8fLYE49HG80VHCRh9_LyW-5QQ5JP-cdNkUsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyWHQ8o369h6=fqi1PJLWuMGP-1dTVj5Oej2CstAPY8S-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4c8da5db-cddd-e51e-0b26-9142c1787528@msa.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <80BF9D85-D844-4ADD-B5CB-F16A8B3203A8@gmail.com>


Hans,

I tend to agree with you as without some trust there is no possible collaboration and team work, and also agree that only people working does mistakes (we all do) and the ones doing nothing cannot surely do so. 

I am a member of AMSAT-NA and also an Ambassador of AMSAT-NA. I really regret this situation, In spite having my own personal opinion about the parties in dispute and that I am sure that such war (most probably both sides have good intentions) could have been easily been avoided with just dialog and at least not been thrown on the BB which seems to have become a battle field instead of an exchange forum, this is sad.

I will vote at next election and hope this situation will end soon, I just hope that US will catch up in the Ham satellite field (was a leader for many year and this is surely now over as you rightly pointed out). I therefore applied for AMSAT-DL membership a few days ago and if all this continues I will probably/regretfully not renew my AMSAT-NA subscription.

I therefore again appeal to the Board members to sit down around a table (e.g. Zoom) and try to work together, more this BB does not need these politics or electoral propaganda, so many mails to delete every day (starting to be stressful) that if it continues I will surely unsubscribe.

I just hope my humble message will be heard.

73



Jean Marc (3B8DU)



> On Jul 13, 2020, at 4:02 PM, Hans BX2ABT via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> On 7/13/20 7:32 PM, David Swanson via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>> Spin Spin Spin.
> 
> I think this is the biggest problem in the world right now.
> 
> People simply don't want to believe each other any more, or even entertain the thought that the "opponent" might be (partially) right or acting in good faith. Mistakes cannot be forgiven, because they are always made with malicious intent. And one's own actions are always right, because the other party is always wrong.
> 
> The trenches are dug, the weapons are loaded: let's go to war.
> 
> In the meantime the Russians give us Sputnik RS-44 (almost MEO), the Chinese shoot cool experiments into space (albeit with the quality of most stuff made in China) and the Germans achieve the first geo-stationary amateur payload. What does AMSAT-NA achieve? The world is already shaking its head when the USA are mentioned because of how it handles COVID-19. Now the amateur radio world laughs at how AMSAT-NA is handling itself. To quote your great leader: "So sad!"
> 
> 73 de Hans (BX2ABT)
> 
> 
> P.S. not an AMSAT-NA member, just here to share and learn about satellites. Now ducking for incoming flak.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> The simple truth here is Director Thompson took the AMSAT
>> member database, and handed it over to a 3rd party competing entity for the
>> purpose of solicitation. I know I did not give ORI my home address, yet ORI
>> sent me a letter. This was a violation of my privacy, and for AMSAT
>> members living in the EU, this was a violation of the law. Any attempt to
>> explain this away is just more lies and deceit from Director Thompson about
>> the shady practices they have engaged in over the past few years. As I keep
>> saying, this isn't a one time thing, this is a pattern of
>> reprehensible behavior that is unbecoming of an elected position and this
>> community. Director Thompson and Director Stoddard should resign.
>> 
>> -Dave, KG5CCI
>> 
>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:33 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Yes, I can.
>>> 
>>> That part of Clayton's letter is wrong and has been repeatedly clarified
>>> before. Including at the 2019 annual board meeting, where Tom Clark asked
>>> me about it, as part of the record.
>>> 
>>> Clayton Coleman was secretary in 2019.
>>> 
>>> He ran the election.
>>> 
>>> He decided that candidate statements were limited in length to 350 words,
>>> would be subject to editorial control by AMSAT, and could not include
>>> links. These new rules were given to us right before the 4th of July
>>> holiday with a deadline of the 7th.
>>> 
>>> This is different than any election before, where statements went directly
>>> to the printer from the candidate, were not limited in length, and no one
>>> from AMSAT leadership (who might be running for reelection themselves) had
>>> any control over the content of their challengers' statements.
>>> 
>>> We got these rules right before ballots went out. We (four challengers)
>>> already had normal-sized statements on the web and they had been up six
>>> weeks at that point. Those were the ones we wanted to use, and link to.
>>> 
>>> We knew that as candidates, we had the right to request the mailing list,
>>> and send our own statements, independent of the ballot.
>>> 
>>> I requested the address list and got the DBASE4 export.
>>> 
>>> Bruce Perens had already written a letter of support and distributed it
>>> widely on the web. It introduced us and included our four full bios and
>>> statements.
>>> 
>>> I asked Bruce if we could use his letter in the mailing. He said yes. Since
>>> he was President of Open Research Institute at the time, he wanted the
>>> return address to not be his private home address, but a business address.
>>> That was ORI's address. He was the author of the endorsement, so I used his
>>> preferred return address.
>>> 
>>> I converted the DBASE4 to a more useful format, fixed the 50 or so
>>> undeliverable addresses, and found an inexpensive printer. Then I sent the
>>> letter from Bruce to the printer, with the bios and statements.
>>> 
>>> That turned out to be a good thing. Bios and statements were not included
>>> with the ballots mailed out, at all.
>>> 
>>> If we had not sent the letter, then name recognition would be the primary
>>> factor. We were running against well-known people.
>>> 
>>> We complained about this. It was unusual departure from the past and seemed
>>> set up to let leadership benefit from being incumbents.
>>> 
>>> The original proposal from Clayton was for an electronic only ballot.
>>> Patrick said that the bylaws were a bit clunky here and it did need to be
>>> mailed out on paper. Paper was required.
>>> 
>>> This is a big reason why I made a motion at our one  board meeting, in
>>> March, for a bylaws committee.
>>> 
>>> This bylaw isn't hard to fix. There's lots of examples out there of
>>> organizations doing electronic voting with working published bylaws.
>>> 
>>> Bruce made it very clear, when the incumbents stirred up the pot about the
>>> return address, that it was an endorsement from him, this was commonly done
>>> in political campaigns, and it would be grossly improper for me to use
>>> AMSATs return address because that would make it look like Bruce was
>>> speaking for or was from AMSAT. That was not going to happen. *That* would
>>> be improper.
>>> 
>>> No one candidate wanted their personal address used as a return address. We
>>> were mailing this as a slate and splitting the cost. We didn't have time or
>>> funds to make an organization or rent a box for one letter on short notice.
>>> The printer required a real return address.
>>> 
>>> No one had the address list except the candidates. Namely me because I
>>> contracted the printer and handled the DBASE4 address conversion. That is a
>>> neat story in and of itself,, for another time.
>>> 
>>> Bruce only sent the text to me and chipped in some money for postage.
>>> 
>>> The printing was automated in Van Nuys, CA.
>>> 
>>> All of this is known to Clayton Coleman and his friends on the board that
>>> signed the statement from this week. It has been explained by Bruce
>>> publicly, and by me several times on social media. Tom Clark brought it up
>>> at the 2019 annual board meeting because of the return address
>>> pot-stirring. I explained it there too. Like I said, it's on the record.
>>> 
>>> I think insinuating the addresses were mishandled is a deliberate twisting
>>> of honest efforts to scramble to get uncensored candidate statements out to
>>> voters on short notice. We just didn't have a lot of time, and Bruce was
>>> very generous in writing a cover letter.
>>> 
>>> Again, candidates are allowed the use of the mailing lists for election
>>> purposes.
>>> 
>>> So, no, there was no breach. Clayton knows all this.
>>> 
>>> Saying it the way he did is a cheap shot at me, Patrick, Bruce Perens, and
>>> ORI.
>>> 
>>>  -Michelle W5NYV
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 19:11 Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>   Hello All,
>>>> 
>>>>    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we all
>>>> received as members.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
>>>> I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed before.
>>>> 
>>>> "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to
>>>> Open Research Institute."
>>>> 
>>>>     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a serious
>>>> breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?
>>>> was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say
>>>> "out in the wind"?
>>>> 
>>>> Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how
>>>> ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something
>>>> that was procured online?
>>>> 
>>>> AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it
>>>> found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in
>>>> the future.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I look forward to an answer
>>>> 
>>>> 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions
>>>> expressed
>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>>> expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 15:26:43 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 08:26:43 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c8eeEfCHORcgar3C3AXxGaTuJkLWb3yMkT3FHcpv1ENWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1712165007.494111.1594583328598.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1712165007.494111.1594583328598@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CADkz4c8eeEfCHORcgar3C3AXxGaTuJkLWb3yMkT3FHcpv1ENWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2W+-Vt1-7GjuASh=1gM5e0+1hPOEzKfGw6gLHjjxy2kbA@mail.gmail.com>

ORI is an AMSAT Member Society. Posting here is appropriate.

All work done is provided free of charge and directly benefits AMSAT.

ORI doesn't sell memberships. It's a research institute. There's no
competition for members because the only members are the board.

This is not uncommon in R&D.

Other AMSAT board members and officers work in the satellite industry, work
for NASA or a contractor, work for universities with satellite programs,
are on space advisory boards, or are presidents or directors of independent
amateur satellite organizations.

Like ARISS USA.
And Project Oscar.

If everyone that was active enough in amateur satellite to wear multiple
hats stepped down, we'd have a very very small leadership team in AMSAT.

Being disgusted by good news and activity seems weird to me. Calling honest
good news that was joyfully shared "garbage" is disappointing to read.

I apologize in advance because there will be more of it in the future.

-Michelle W5NYV


On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 14:22 Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Brad,
>
> What transparency and progress has been brought to the organization
> from the members that you speak of?  Specifically?  It appears that
> since they were voted in, everyone in the organization is now walking
> on egg-shells. The BB is now plastered with emails asking which words
> mean what feelings, name calling and chasing after the organization
> using whatever legal means the wizards-of-smart can conjure up all in
> the name of almighty, all-righeous, '''transparency'''. It all seems
> rather insincere and unproductive to me.  People like this should do
> the organization a favor, and leave, run their own competing
> organization and take whatever people and dollars happen to follow
> them.
>
> I would honestly like to return to the ARISSat-1 days, where it was
> just full-speed-ahead engineering and not all this talk all about
> 'saving AMSAT' and ORI garbage.  All this ORI promotion on the BB, is
> absolute garbage.  No rational AMSAT member should be OK with that,
> especially from an AMSAT BOD member.  ORI is a separate, competing
> organization and their bylaws are..... telling.  If AMSATs bylaws were
> ever amended to be anything like those, you can kiss your membership
> goodbye, ref: https://openresearch.institute/organization-documents.
> Their bylaws literally say "Membership shall consist of the Board of
> Directors.".  Quite an Open organization, indeed!
>
> But I digress... The more of these kinds of people you vote in, the
> more the organization is going to be hurt, guaranteed. Because not
> only is nothing going to get done, obviously some people don't want to
> work with them for whatever-reasons and THAT actually is important.
> And, the reasons are important too.  Have you wondered why...?  I do!
> As a small business owner, when I hear such-and-such doesn't want to
> work with so-and-so, I immediately want to ask "What happened"?  From
> what the email traffic looks like, it seems like you may have to worry
> about legal action for everything you say or do around them or, maybe
> there was some pre-election history that most of the people that voted
> for them, didn't know about.  I have no clue, but this all does make
> me wonder.
>
> Either way, it seems like the state of things right now is Much Worst
> than it was prior-to the last election, so... Not sure why anyone
> would want more of this.  For me, the socio-political environment is
> just as important as the engi-nerding portion..  At the very least,
> BOD members need to be promoting the organization they are on the
> board of and noone should have to worry about legal retaliation over
> every little thing.
>
> Joseph Armbruster
> KJ4JIO
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 3:58 PM Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > If you care about the AMSAT organization continuing to help hams in
> space communications, please read and reread Patrick's and Michelle's
> explanations.  They layout exactly what happened. Now we learn that the
> expenditure is over 16k. That is 363 memberships, if this retired
> engineer's math is correct. This is money wasted to beat down two members
> who want transparency and progress. This was not right. Our money was
> wasted! I am anxious for the election.
> >
> > Again, I ask that members do not resign over this. That helps nobody and
> hurts out hobby, which has already taken a huge hit. Solve this with your
> voting privilege.
> >
> > 73 Brad KC9UQR
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From mat_62 at charter.net  Mon Jul 13 15:30:27 2020
From: mat_62 at charter.net (Michael Tondee)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 11:30:27 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Non Profits and Boards
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6609.1594617120.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.6609.1594617120.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <fffe4afb-ddc2-e1b6-df98-7e9ff691caaa@charter.net>

I have no idea what this below is supposed to insinuate if anything but 
to set the record straight, I am responsible for two recent post both of 
which I stand by. The "cookie jar" reference and the opinion that AMSAT 
has been stagnant and absent of any real innovation for years. The 
"stagnant" post never went through for whatever reason so I ended up 
forwarding it again. Yes, that's full my name and call, been at the same 
QTH for 27 years and my opinions are my own. The call was originally my 
late father's.

 ?Even though? I'm not a member any more, I keep up with this list 
because I keep hoping this organization will do something to show me it 
deserves my support. Needless to say this latest fiasco doesn't do that. 
>From the outside looking in AMSAT is broken and it was broken long 
before this scandal. Now I'm repeating myself, for what good it does. 
Y'all really should clean house in your next election. Misappropriation 
of funds in a non profit is no laughing matter. I will gladly join again 
if I see that happen and I begin to see this organization moving forward 
again.

73,

Michael W4HIJ



>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 20:33:28 -0700
> From: W3AB/GEO <w3ab at yahoo.com>
> To: Dwayne Sinclair <nna6us at gmail.com>
> Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Non Profits and Boards
> Message-ID: <cdead1a6-a683-4af9-a92c-8d3083e8d5f4 at yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Now it gets even better.
>
> Who is NA6US? Dwayne Sinclair? Didn't come up on qrz.com.
>
> Why was this posted under
>
> MICHAEL A TONDEE, W4HIJ's name?
>
>
> ?___
> Sent from my two way wrist watch
> 73 de W3AB/GEO?
>
>

From propgrinder at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 15:45:22 2020
From: propgrinder at gmail.com (Bob Hammond)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 08:45:22 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Gravitas
In-Reply-To: <CAKoB7Oo+JLf-F5XKLfuAQ7FyLdcWnXu3NRHePtLCVvdAENrjsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47852A8D-A8B9-40D2-B6A2-720CE4ECD7D2@mac.com>
	<CAKoB7Oo+JLf-F5XKLfuAQ7FyLdcWnXu3NRHePtLCVvdAENrjsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKoB7Oo5Zz40o4ib1Mut1uwz9aQBvKrXCFPDZj0F8rAp8eM_Wg@mail.gmail.com>

Clarification:  I CHANGED my membership from Regular to Life.

Bob W7OTJ


On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 7:49 AM Bob Hammond <propgrinder at gmail.com> wrote:

> I agree.  I just rejoined AMSAT as a Life Member.
>
> Bob W7OTJ
> Member # 33378
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 7:29 AM Jeff Davis via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> Respect and trust are things not easily earned from people we almost
>> never see. It?s not difficult for me to respect and trust my wife having
>> lived with her for 42 years. Politicians and BoD members aren?t like that.
>> We often barely know them so any decision about who to vote for or who to
>> trust when conflicts arise is generally something of a gamble.
>>
>> But in this case the "explanation letter" issued by AMSAT was signed by
>> some people I've trusted for years, especially Dr. Tom Clark and Keith
>> Baker whose signatures lend considerable gravitas to the response.
>>
>> That said, I?m satisfied with the response and have made up my mind about
>> the choices in the coming election I intend to make. I hope you all have
>> too. And for those non-members who have kicked up considerable chaff here
>> on the -BB, I invite you to turn your angst, whatever it might be, into
>> action by joining AMSAT and have a vote in the matter. Otherwise, you?re
>> just ranting with into the wind for no reason other than to hear your own
>> voice?
>>
>> https://www.amsat.org/join-amsat/ <https://www.amsat.org/join-amsat/>
>>
>>
>> Jeff, KE9V
>> AMSAT 28350
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>

From dave at druidnetworks.com  Mon Jul 13 15:53:44 2020
From: dave at druidnetworks.com (David Swanson)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 10:53:44 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2U4M0XDpWM9L9-fr27vxJ6FaT8iGJHvf98U39SX4Zk7=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2U2fCYU4r8fLYE49HG80VHCRh9_LyW-5QQ5JP-cdNkUsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyWHQ8o369h6=fqi1PJLWuMGP-1dTVj5Oej2CstAPY8S-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2U4M0XDpWM9L9-fr27vxJ6FaT8iGJHvf98U39SX4Zk7=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANq+eyXFLpC9t8jMG-8+x6TxQSTYFeKQ0s=_8j-g=LV98P4+Lg@mail.gmail.com>

It's always fun to remind folks tripping over their own feat lying that the
internet is forever. From a Bruce Perens Tweet on July 13, 2020:

"Please see my letter on the web, or the paper copy I've mailed to everyone
one of you".

Of course the original tweet was deleted, but the wayback machine never
forgets. Don't Believe me? http://druidnetworks.com/2020-07-13.png

If you still think the membership list wasn't compromised, I just heard
Director Thompson will be auctioning off their ocean front property in
Arizona to all the members this year to raise funds for their microwave,
digital only, strictly open source crowd funded, vegan, social justice
aware cubesat launch to Proxima Centauri. Of course this launch will only
come after 10 years of ground station development, but fueled with enough
hopes, dreams and promises it will become a reality!

For the rest of us who actually want to keep amateur radio in (real) space
and are disgusted at the violations of privacy that occured by 3rd parties
working to get Director Thompson and Director Stoddard elected, well, you
should know what to do.

-Dave, KG5CCI

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:24 AM Michelle Thompson <
mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:

> No database went anywhere except to candidates. This is allowed in the
> bylaws.
>
> Then, an automated bulk mail printing server was used. I recommended the
> company to Brennan Price for this year's mailing. Good service,
> inexpensive.
>
> Return addresses don't magically transfer information.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 04:32 David Swanson <dave at druidnetworks.com> wrote:
>
>> Spin Spin Spin. The simple truth here is Director Thompson took the AMSAT
>> member database, and handed it over to a 3rd party competing entity for the
>> purpose of solicitation. I know I did not give ORI my home address, yet ORI
>> sent me a letter. This was a violation of my privacy, and for AMSAT
>> members living in the EU, this was a violation of the law. Any attempt to
>> explain this away is just more lies and deceit from Director Thompson about
>> the shady practices they have engaged in over the past few years. As I keep
>> saying, this isn't a one time thing, this is a pattern of
>> reprehensible behavior that is unbecoming of an elected position and this
>> community. Director Thompson and Director Stoddard should resign.
>>
>> -Dave, KG5CCI
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:33 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, I can.
>>>
>>> That part of Clayton's letter is wrong and has been repeatedly clarified
>>> before. Including at the 2019 annual board meeting, where Tom Clark asked
>>> me about it, as part of the record.
>>>
>>> Clayton Coleman was secretary in 2019.
>>>
>>> He ran the election.
>>>
>>> He decided that candidate statements were limited in length to 350 words,
>>> would be subject to editorial control by AMSAT, and could not include
>>> links. These new rules were given to us right before the 4th of July
>>> holiday with a deadline of the 7th.
>>>
>>> This is different than any election before, where statements went
>>> directly
>>> to the printer from the candidate, were not limited in length, and no one
>>> from AMSAT leadership (who might be running for reelection themselves)
>>> had
>>> any control over the content of their challengers' statements.
>>>
>>> We got these rules right before ballots went out. We (four challengers)
>>> already had normal-sized statements on the web and they had been up six
>>> weeks at that point. Those were the ones we wanted to use, and link to.
>>>
>>> We knew that as candidates, we had the right to request the mailing list,
>>> and send our own statements, independent of the ballot.
>>>
>>> I requested the address list and got the DBASE4 export.
>>>
>>> Bruce Perens had already written a letter of support and distributed it
>>> widely on the web. It introduced us and included our four full bios and
>>> statements.
>>>
>>> I asked Bruce if we could use his letter in the mailing. He said yes.
>>> Since
>>> he was President of Open Research Institute at the time, he wanted the
>>> return address to not be his private home address, but a business
>>> address.
>>> That was ORI's address. He was the author of the endorsement, so I used
>>> his
>>> preferred return address.
>>>
>>> I converted the DBASE4 to a more useful format, fixed the 50 or so
>>> undeliverable addresses, and found an inexpensive printer. Then I sent
>>> the
>>> letter from Bruce to the printer, with the bios and statements.
>>>
>>> That turned out to be a good thing. Bios and statements were not included
>>> with the ballots mailed out, at all.
>>>
>>> If we had not sent the letter, then name recognition would be the primary
>>> factor. We were running against well-known people.
>>>
>>> We complained about this. It was unusual departure from the past and
>>> seemed
>>> set up to let leadership benefit from being incumbents.
>>>
>>> The original proposal from Clayton was for an electronic only ballot.
>>> Patrick said that the bylaws were a bit clunky here and it did need to be
>>> mailed out on paper. Paper was required.
>>>
>>> This is a big reason why I made a motion at our one  board meeting, in
>>> March, for a bylaws committee.
>>>
>>> This bylaw isn't hard to fix. There's lots of examples out there of
>>> organizations doing electronic voting with working published bylaws.
>>>
>>> Bruce made it very clear, when the incumbents stirred up the pot about
>>> the
>>> return address, that it was an endorsement from him, this was commonly
>>> done
>>> in political campaigns, and it would be grossly improper for me to use
>>> AMSATs return address because that would make it look like Bruce was
>>> speaking for or was from AMSAT. That was not going to happen. *That*
>>> would
>>> be improper.
>>>
>>> No one candidate wanted their personal address used as a return address.
>>> We
>>> were mailing this as a slate and splitting the cost. We didn't have time
>>> or
>>> funds to make an organization or rent a box for one letter on short
>>> notice.
>>> The printer required a real return address.
>>>
>>> No one had the address list except the candidates. Namely me because I
>>> contracted the printer and handled the DBASE4 address conversion. That
>>> is a
>>> neat story in and of itself,, for another time.
>>>
>>> Bruce only sent the text to me and chipped in some money for postage.
>>>
>>> The printing was automated in Van Nuys, CA.
>>>
>>> All of this is known to Clayton Coleman and his friends on the board that
>>> signed the statement from this week. It has been explained by Bruce
>>> publicly, and by me several times on social media. Tom Clark brought it
>>> up
>>> at the 2019 annual board meeting because of the return address
>>> pot-stirring. I explained it there too. Like I said, it's on the record.
>>>
>>> I think insinuating the addresses were mishandled is a deliberate
>>> twisting
>>> of honest efforts to scramble to get uncensored candidate statements out
>>> to
>>> voters on short notice. We just didn't have a lot of time, and Bruce was
>>> very generous in writing a cover letter.
>>>
>>> Again, candidates are allowed the use of the mailing lists for election
>>> purposes.
>>>
>>> So, no, there was no breach. Clayton knows all this.
>>>
>>> Saying it the way he did is a cheap shot at me, Patrick, Bruce Perens,
>>> and
>>> ORI.
>>>
>>>  -Michelle W5NYV
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 19:11 Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >   Hello All,
>>> >
>>> >    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we all
>>> > received as members.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
>>> >
>>> > I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed
>>> before.
>>> >
>>> > "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to
>>> > Open Research Institute."
>>> >
>>> >     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a
>>> serious
>>> > breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?
>>> > was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they say
>>> > "out in the wind"?
>>> >
>>> > Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how
>>> > ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something
>>> > that was procured online?
>>> >
>>> > AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what it
>>> > found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in
>>> > the future.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I look forward to an answer
>>> >
>>> > 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions
>>> > expressed
>>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>> of
>>> > AMSAT-NA.
>>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>

From skristof at etczone.com  Mon Jul 13 16:21:57 2020
From: skristof at etczone.com (Steve Kristoff)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 12:21:57 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <1984320037.797478.1594652358770@myemail.cox.net>
References: <mailman.6647.1594644904.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<1984320037.797478.1594652358770@myemail.cox.net>
Message-ID: <4c89ff8a749b097c9a39b2d48aa79ed5@etczone.com>


I worked a satellite just this morning. They are still up there. Just have to step away from the computer and turn on the radio.

Steve Ai9IN

?
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Karcher via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
Date: 07/13/20 12:10
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org, amsat-bb-request at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list

I thought being a member of AMSAT was about keeping amateur radio in space, learning about satellites and for some of us working amateur radio satellites in space. ?Since the last election AMSAT seems to be about nothing but politics and misinformation. ?In my opinion AMSAT was a lot more fun to be apart of before the last election. ?All the politics and misinformation drives people away from AMSAT and is not good for the organization. ?I have been told in the past by one of the new board members that all of this is necessary for change to happen. ?I don't see that AMSAT has to go through some fundamental change or movement. ?I am tired of the new AMSAT since the last election. ?I am seriously considering not renewing my membership and I know plenty of other that are considering the same. ?When will all of this end so we can start enjoying AMSAT again and working satellites? ?

Brian D. Karcher
KG5GJT
? ? ? ?
>


From w7lrd at comcast.net  Mon Jul 13 16:31:26 2020
From: w7lrd at comcast.net (73 Bob W7LRD)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 09:31:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <E7E93051-9A38-41FC-AAA8-ACD745F8670C@comcast.net>
References: <1712165007.494111.1594583328598.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1712165007.494111.1594583328598@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CADkz4c8eeEfCHORcgar3C3AXxGaTuJkLWb3yMkT3FHcpv1ENWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CH2PR12MB38930FA8A6FAEA2AAABBA3BDA9600@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAPOM0dm1zQwE6puntpn8=gsO3rvWsurEq8XodVvkHsQH2=9WGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E7E93051-9A38-41FC-AAA8-ACD745F8670C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1237381593.52917.1594657886386@connect.xfinity.com>

When my children were very young they would very occasionally get into fights and conflicts.  I would put them both into a small room in the house and tell them, "you're coming out until you can get along.
73 Bob W7LRD

> On 07/13/2020 7:49 AM Greg via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
>  
> Again, after being absent for a few years than rejoining AMSAT last month, this is disheartening. 
> 
>  BUT, what is really disheartening is that the directors say they are here for the members.  Well, if that is the case and you give a crap about the members then give us the BB back and quit monopolizing it with your remarks against the others.  
> 
> Put you big people pants on and deal with it via telephone, teleconference etc the way many of us in the C suite had to do in the ?real world." Then make it a campaign item WHEN elections roll around.  
> 
> The ironic part is if you ignore my request and other members request asking for this to end on the board, then you really don't care about the members and showed your true colors. 
> 
> Greg
> N3MVF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 13, 2020, at 12:40 AM, Kenneth P Alexander via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> Sure Chad,
> 
> I'll consider supporting Amsat again as soon as this mess is cleaned up and
> everyone is satisfied with the outcome, whichever way it goes.
> 
> Ken, VE3HLS
> So Phisai, Thailand
> Blog:  bueng-ken.com
> 
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 08:58 Chad KG0MW via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
> 
> > Joseph you are right. As much as the BoD needs to promote AMSAT, we as
> > members need to stand up promote AMSAT and show our support. The more
> > support we show, hopefully the sooner we can get back to actual
> > constructive conversation.
> > 
> > Chad
> > 
> > 
> > ?On 7/12/20, 4:22 PM, "AMSAT-BB on behalf of Joseph Armbruster via
> > AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org on behalf of amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > wrote:
> > 
> >    Brad,
> > 
> >    What transparency and progress has been brought to the organization
> >    from the members that you speak of?  Specifically?  It appears that
> >    since they were voted in, everyone in the organization is now walking
> >    on egg-shells. The BB is now plastered with emails asking which words
> >    mean what feelings, name calling and chasing after the organization
> >    using whatever legal means the wizards-of-smart can conjure up all in
> >    the name of almighty, all-righeous, '''transparency'''. It all seems
> >    rather insincere and unproductive to me.  People like this should do
> >    the organization a favor, and leave, run their own competing
> >    organization and take whatever people and dollars happen to follow
> >    them.
> > 
> >    I would honestly like to return to the ARISSat-1 days, where it was
> >    just full-speed-ahead engineering and not all this talk all about
> >    'saving AMSAT' and ORI garbage.  All this ORI promotion on the BB, is
> >    absolute garbage.  No rational AMSAT member should be OK with that,
> >    especially from an AMSAT BOD member.  ORI is a separate, competing
> >    organization and their bylaws are..... telling.  If AMSATs bylaws were
> >    ever amended to be anything like those, you can kiss your membership
> >    goodbye, ref: https://openresearch.institute/organization-documents.
> >    Their bylaws literally say "Membership shall consist of the Board of
> >    Directors.".  Quite an Open organization, indeed!
> > 
> >    But I digress... The more of these kinds of people you vote in, the
> >    more the organization is going to be hurt, guaranteed. Because not
> >    only is nothing going to get done, obviously some people don't want to
> >    work with them for whatever-reasons and THAT actually is important.
> >    And, the reasons are important too.  Have you wondered why...?  I do!
> >    As a small business owner, when I hear such-and-such doesn't want to
> >    work with so-and-so, I immediately want to ask "What happened"?  From
> >    what the email traffic looks like, it seems like you may have to worry
> >    about legal action for everything you say or do around them or, maybe
> >    there was some pre-election history that most of the people that voted
> >    for them, didn't know about.  I have no clue, but this all does make
> >    me wonder.
> > 
> >    Either way, it seems like the state of things right now is Much Worst
> >    than it was prior-to the last election, so... Not sure why anyone
> >    would want more of this.  For me, the socio-political environment is
> >    just as important as the engi-nerding portion..  At the very least,
> >    BOD members need to be promoting the organization they are on the
> >    board of and noone should have to worry about legal retaliation over
> >    every little thing.
> > 
> >    Joseph Armbruster
> >    KJ4JIO
> > 
> >    On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 3:58 PM Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB
> >    <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >> 
> >> If you care about the AMSAT organization continuing to help hams in
> > space communications, please read and reread Patrick's and Michelle's
> > explanations.  They layout exactly what happened. Now we learn that the
> > expenditure is over 16k. That is 363 memberships, if this retired
> > engineer's math is correct. This is money wasted to beat down two members
> > who want transparency and progress. This was not right. Our money was
> > wasted! I am anxious for the election.
> >> 
> >> Again, I ask that members do not resign over this. That helps nobody
> > and hurts out hobby, which has already taken a huge hit. Solve this with
> > your voting privilege.
> >> 
> >> 73 Brad KC9UQR
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> > available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> > views of AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> >> Subscription settings:
> > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >    _______________________________________________
> >    Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >    to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions expressed
> >    are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> > of AMSAT-NA.
> >    Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> >    Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From rich at ourowndomain.com  Mon Jul 13 16:36:49 2020
From: rich at ourowndomain.com (Rich Gopstein)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 12:36:49 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Brief summary of the "unauthorized expenses" claim
Message-ID: <CANsNeaoAOL8BRBS8efmhNVC8-vQ3cWb3+uF2X1pkpe05=t2jFA@mail.gmail.com>

First: I'm not a lawyer.  These are my observations only.

This is what I learned over the past few days while researching the claim
that the AMSAT money spent on legal services related to the new directors
was "unauthorized".

   - I read the AMSAT bylaws.  They are very readable, BTW - and not long.
   - The bylaws say that expenses can be authorized either by the board
   itself or by the officers of AMSAT if the board delegates that authority.
   - If an expense went to the board for approval, it would show up in the
   minutes of that board meeting.
   - If an expense were authorized by an officer, then it wouldn't show up
   in the minutes of a board meeting.
   - The claim that the expenses were unauthorized was based on the
   observation that there was no record in the board meeting minutes of the
   authorization.  However, as mentioned above, not everything has to go to
   the board for approval.  And that decision is up to the board itself.
   - In this case, the members of the AMSAT board at the time said that the
   expenses were authorized.
   - Since the board has the authority to authorize expenditures (directly
   or indirectly) and they say the expenses were authorized, that indicates to
   me that the expenses were authorized.

Note: Michelle and Patrick were not members of the board when this
happened.  They were analyzing this after the fact.

Rich
KD2CQ
AMSAT Life Member

From jean.marc.momple at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 17:07:42 2020
From: jean.marc.momple at gmail.com (Jean Marc Momple)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 21:07:42 +0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] The SATS
In-Reply-To: <1565459593.833748.1594652410529@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1565459593.833748.1594652410529.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1565459593.833748.1594652410529@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3F4A6902-0317-4673-8645-9B91AF86E4EF@gmail.com>

Jerry,

I have been promoting Ham satellites for many years and particularly to the younger generation for a real blood renewal (I am 60) with some success so far.

Just please tell them that AMSAT-NA management issues is not a major one as Hams organizations worldwide will eventually take over if AMSAT-NA not able to cope. Ham radio is a worldwide fraternity and it will survive in any case particularly in satellites as there are many initiatives from other countries underway, the best example is QO-100.

Keep it up my friend.

73


Jean Marc (3B8DU)

> On Jul 13, 2020, at 7:00 PM, Gerald Witalec via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> With all this hate and discontent going on, I have eight individuals who are interested inobtaining their Amateur Ham Radio License, but what they are seeing the bickeringon this board, they are now all on hold. Their interest was also in the satellites.
> 
> Jerry...W8RQM
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From mat_62 at charter.net  Mon Jul 13 17:08:22 2020
From: mat_62 at charter.net (Michael Tondee)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 13:08:22 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 243
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6661.1594653460.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.6661.1594653460.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <4177634d-7069-b710-efd4-e8c32acf7103@charter.net>

Non member here. I am voting. It's called voting with my wallet and 
withholding financial support until? AMSAT does something worth 
supporting. A good start would be the members cleaning house this 
election! Probably won't happen and sadly the good ole boy network will 
remain. As I've already stated, it's not just this scandal either, it's 
the direction AMSAT has taken since the demise of Eagle and the 
inability of the entire international community to find a ride for P3-E. 
Many are frustrated.? I think if the AMSAT board and membership would 
open their eyes, they'd be amazed to find how many other hams are out 
here who feel the same way and are doing exactly the same as I am too. 
Done with this now, pointless to comment any further.

73, Michael, W4HIJ

>
>
> Respect and trust are things not easily earned from people we almost never see. It?s not difficult for me to respect and trust my wife having lived with her for 42 years. Politicians and BoD members aren?t like that. We often barely know them so any decision about who to vote for or who to trust when conflicts arise is generally something of a gamble.
>
> But in this case the "explanation letter" issued by AMSAT was signed by some people I've trusted for years, especially Dr. Tom Clark and Keith Baker whose signatures lend considerable gravitas to the response.
>
> That said, I?m satisfied with the response and have made up my mind about the choices in the coming election I intend to make. I hope you all have too. And for those non-members who have kicked up considerable chaff here on the -BB, I invite you to turn your angst, whatever it might be, into action by joining AMSAT and have a vote in the matter. Otherwise, you?re just ranting with into the wind for no reason other than to hear your own voice?
>
> https://www.amsat.org/join-amsat/ <https://www.amsat.org/join-amsat/>
>
>
> Jeff, KE9V
> AMSAT 28350
>
>
>
>
>

From n8fgv at usa.net  Mon Jul 13 15:07:37 2020
From: n8fgv at usa.net (Daniel Schultz)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 11:07:37 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 242
Message-ID: <146ygmPgl1984Set.1594652857@web07.cms.usa.net>

Dear Gailen,

In filing your two line gripe about the "structural squabbling" displacing the
normal discussion of the "birds" on amsat-bb, you forwarded all 913 lines of
the entire AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 242, back to the group. If you are
going to complain about the signal to noise ratio, at least take the time to
edit your reply before hitting send. If you can't do that from your iPhone,
then wait until you get home and send your reply from a real computer. 

No we are not going to create yet another mailing list. If you don't like it
then hit Delete and go on to the next message about the "birds".

Dan Schultz N8FGV

------ Original Message ------
>Received: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 15:50:47 -0500
>From: Gailen Marshall <gdm2md at gmail.com>
>To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
>Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 233
>Message-ID: <92CBBC69-47D9-46E3-A39C-4B8DBD8482F5 at gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>Yes! Can we stick to the birds and let those interested in structural
squabbling
>have their own venue? Gailen N5GDM
>
>Sent from my iPhone



From robert.ehresman at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 15:17:15 2020
From: robert.ehresman at gmail.com (Robert Ehresman)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 10:17:15 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Gravitas
Message-ID: <CAHxrdOTuVzMxEGpCNHE5Y37RzMxs9hDOhfGJnARUDC=61m8OhA@mail.gmail.com>

I'd like to point out that the "Join AMSAT" page is currently giving out
Error 404.

PAGE NOT FOUND (ERROR 404)
Sorry, but the page you are trying to access either does not exist or is
not available.


Home <https://launch.amsat.org/>     Back     Sitemap
<https://launch.amsat.org/Sitemap>

>I invite you to turn your angst, whatever it >might be, into action by
joining AMSAT >and have a vote in the matter. Otherwise, >you?re just
ranting with into the wind for >no reason other than to hear your own
>voice?

>https://www.amsat.org/join-amsat/
><https://www.amsat.org/join-amsat/>

From djvnet at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 17:10:30 2020
From: djvnet at gmail.com (Daniel Velez)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 13:10:30 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] when is the election being discussed?
Message-ID: <CAOBpJZoH99bCJ7WSXvRHNafO4Nzy6aYhAJAjfun5MJaoqR-beA@mail.gmail.com>

I joined in June but I haven't seen any ballot info.
73 de Dan

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 17:25:36 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 10:25:36 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA, another perspective
In-Reply-To: <CAJgz9AY+ee-htyrHzRhrGbkW+bNkwkxrAF+KFR5bOnrCKiWDzA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJgz9AY+ee-htyrHzRhrGbkW+bNkwkxrAF+KFR5bOnrCKiWDzA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2UH-qLpGcvoWGwa7+J1Zm3wx19yGLJRpD5JbMG70pomjw@mail.gmail.com>

We were denied access to corporate records and communications from the
first day of our terms.

We commissioned a formal legal demand letter and sent it to
AMSAT's secretly hired law firm.

Two days later, Joe Spier resigned.

Clayton Coleman was (duly) elected in a short emergency meeting.

Clayton Coleman restored access to communications, and some additional
records were available. He called the first (and only) regular board
meeting of the year, and we heard some reports, made some motions, and
kicked off some plans. This was nearly 5 months into our term.

The biggest step forward at this meeting was Clayton agreed to end the
business relationship with the secretly hired law firm. That spigot was
off.

Things actually looked like they were improving.

No followup since then. No regular meetings since then. No resolution on
who actually signed the checks. Could we recover the money?

When the rest of the board finally angrily revealed they really did know
all about the secretly hired law firm all along, and it was ok with them
that the lawyers were used specifically to make our lives harder, and when
some of them decided to run for another term, we decided to speak up.
That's all we can do.

If members want another year of zero board meetings because the incumbents
really hate Patrick and Michelle asking inconvenient questions about
unauthorized expenses, then members will return the same people to the
board.

Every month, Patrick and I will still be going through the financials
carefully and asking questions. That's an essential part of the job.

If members want a functional board that publishes minutes and can show
progress, collaboration, and decision-making, then please vote for people
that will help do that: Robert McGwier, Howie DeFelice, and Jeff Johns.

Thank you for the opportunity to answer.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 10:06 AM Russ Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I have been a member on/off since 2012. I have never been removed from this
> AMSAT mailing list, but have not always been able to log into the AMSAT.org
> web site. In spite of this, I have renewed my membership, typically at
> Hamvention (until this year, but did so online), and made extra purchases
> to support the work of AMSAT.
>
> I definitely echo the message of Hans BX2ABT. Not everyone is bad, but
> unfortunately too many are not good either.
>
> When reading over each point of view of this ongoing dispute, it is not
> very clear what started this dispute. In a statement in response to
> allegations of financial mismanagement, Clayton wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *AMSAT's corporate records give a full accounting of all expendituresand
> are provided to its Directors upon request, in compliance with ourgoverning
> documents and law of the District of Columbia (D.C.) Ouroffice remains
> closed due to COVID-19, where those documents reside.Furthermore, AMSAT
> complies with IRS rules for 501(c)(3) disclosure ofpublic financial
> documents, such as the Form 990 available on theAMSAT website  *
>
> The above statement is either wholly true, or gray, because making a
> statement like this which is completely false would be illegal.
>
> Michelle, you have claimed that you (and Patrick) were denied access to
> financial transaction records upon your written request. Can we simply
> focus on *what* specifically started this whole thing?
>
> Russ Ramirez
> K0WFS
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From w7lrd at comcast.net  Mon Jul 13 18:09:57 2020
From: w7lrd at comcast.net (73 Bob W7LRD)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 11:09:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [amsat-bb] children
In-Reply-To: <1237381593.52917.1594657886386@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <1712165007.494111.1594583328598.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1712165007.494111.1594583328598@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CADkz4c8eeEfCHORcgar3C3AXxGaTuJkLWb3yMkT3FHcpv1ENWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CH2PR12MB38930FA8A6FAEA2AAABBA3BDA9600@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAPOM0dm1zQwE6puntpn8=gsO3rvWsurEq8XodVvkHsQH2=9WGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E7E93051-9A38-41FC-AAA8-ACD745F8670C@comcast.net>
	<1237381593.52917.1594657886386@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <1478679106.53611.1594663797984@connect.xfinity.com>


 When my children were very young they would very occasionally get into fights and conflicts.  I would put them both into a small room in the house and tell them, "you're not coming out until you can get along.
> 73 Bob W7LRD

From johnbrier at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 18:21:02 2020
From: johnbrier at gmail.com (John Brier)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 14:21:02 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA, another perspective
In-Reply-To: <CAJgz9AY+ee-htyrHzRhrGbkW+bNkwkxrAF+KFR5bOnrCKiWDzA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJgz9AY+ee-htyrHzRhrGbkW+bNkwkxrAF+KFR5bOnrCKiWDzA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALn0fKOSWvTNq+OwUkz+dU6ZLq-jGOTh-vGQ6ORS+1uugAt4YQ@mail.gmail.com>

>From what I understand, what started this was just different opinions
about ways of doing things between Patrick and officers/directors, and
in different ways, between Michelle and officers/directors. They each
have very different contributions to AMSAT, and that they ran into
similar issues from those different avenues gives more credence to
their claims.

With Patrick it was mostly about issues with how AO-92 L-band
operations were run. With Michelle there seems to have been tensions
going back further, between her and Jerry most recently it seems. She
has dealt with sexism in this community. I saw it first hand when she
gave the AMSAT/TAPR keynote at Hamvention a few years ago. I talk
about that here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ9Rch9MjjM

BTW, IMO I felt there was never a threat she would sue AMSAT over
discrimination. From talking to Michelle, she has dealt with sexism a
lot in her career and much worse than what she reported publicly about
AMSAT. I think she is more interested in doing things and the sexism
was just one of the impediments she experienced related to getting
things done. With the money she has raised recently for AMSAT I think
she is trying to show that, and I think she succeeded. She has a lot
of free time and abilities and has and is offering a lot to the
community.

AMSAT didn't have to hire a lawyer to get an anti-discrimination
policy. There are dozens of open source projects, sponsored by large
corporations, that have policies they could have adapted. It is also
interesting that they adopted a policy after the accusations, and then
decided hers didn't meet the definition of discrimination in the
adopted policy. Not that that can't be done ethically, there is just a
huge pitfall in adopting a policy after accusations have been made.

I am not sure about the accusations she made, but does anyone else
remember what I referred to in my video? Could AMSAT publicly
acknowledge that and say it is not acceptable?

With Patrick, the idea that he harassed Drew over issues with AO-92
L-band does not seem like a reasonable description of what I know
about that situation.

As I said in the video above Drew behaved hypocritically and when
Patrick pointed that out I thought it was courageous. There were also
issues with Drew blocking Patrick on Twitter. That info is on
Patrick's website.

IMO the use of words like attack to describe accusations is over the
top. It was criticism. And what threats were levied? That he would run
for a directors seat? Attack and threat are strong words and some
definitions use violence to describe them.

I don't think Drew or others handled valid criticism well. The
blocking of access to the email archives and then the opening due to
the demand letter show to me that their judgement in blocking that was
wrong, and that they actually haven't been welcoming to the new
directors. Clayton also said in his own letter that the only power
they have is to vote during meetings... and they only had one meeting
in a year!

The last thing I will leave you with is a quote from a blogger I
follow that outlines how the ways we evolved make it exceptionally
hard for anyone to deal with situations like this well:

"As some evolutionary psychologists argue, our moral instincts didn?t
evolve to help us to discern right from wrong, but to help us convince
other humans that we?d make good additions to their clan?that we hate
their enemies, share their affinities, and shake our heads at the same
behaviors.

That?s why having your beliefs affirmed by others feels so good, even
when the belief is devoid of moral significance: that the Packers are
better than the Vikings, or that your favorite movie doesn?t deserve
its bad reviews.

Enjoying this feeling doesn?t even require the belief to be true,
which explains why people are generally uninterested in contradictory
evidence, and why solidarity groups form around claims that the earth
is flat, that vaccines cause autism, and that the real Paul McCartney
died in a 1966 car crash.

Because existing beliefs feel so much better than ideas we don?t yet
believe, we all drift naturally toward the comforts of the echo
chamber."

- David Cain

73, John Brier KG4AKV

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 1:06 PM Russ Ramirez via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> I have been a member on/off since 2012. I have never been removed from this
> AMSAT mailing list, but have not always been able to log into the AMSAT.org
> web site. In spite of this, I have renewed my membership, typically at
> Hamvention (until this year, but did so online), and made extra purchases
> to support the work of AMSAT.
>
> I definitely echo the message of Hans BX2ABT. Not everyone is bad, but
> unfortunately too many are not good either.
>
> When reading over each point of view of this ongoing dispute, it is not
> very clear what started this dispute. In a statement in response to
> allegations of financial mismanagement, Clayton wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *AMSAT's corporate records give a full accounting of all expendituresand
> are provided to its Directors upon request, in compliance with ourgoverning
> documents and law of the District of Columbia (D.C.) Ouroffice remains
> closed due to COVID-19, where those documents reside.Furthermore, AMSAT
> complies with IRS rules for 501(c)(3) disclosure ofpublic financial
> documents, such as the Form 990 available on theAMSAT website  *
>
> The above statement is either wholly true, or gray, because making a
> statement like this which is completely false would be illegal.
>
> Michelle, you have claimed that you (and Patrick) were denied access to
> financial transaction records upon your written request. Can we simply
> focus on *what* specifically started this whole thing?
>
> Russ Ramirez
> K0WFS
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From royldean at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 18:22:35 2020
From: royldean at gmail.com (Roy Dean)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 14:22:35 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Still one part missing.... (skip if you don't want to
 read about the BoD concerns)
Message-ID: <CADGPg2v_LeUKbpfmKqvgc3xh1L+=or8SYRDHepmZcWXZ0yw3BA@mail.gmail.com>

[Legal Disclaimer:   None of the below should be construed as fact.  I am
only trying to confirm what I know in order to make an informed decision
when it comes time to vote.  Please feel free to correct any assumptions or
conclusions I may have reached below]

I understand both of Directors Stoddard's and Thompson's concerns about the
validity of certain spending on legal advice.
I understand both of Directors Stoddard's and Thompson's concerns about the
withholding of corporate documents until a legal demand letter was
presented.
I understand the concerns of many of the board and executives about a
conflict of interest with Director Thomson's involvement with ORI.
I understand the concerns of many of the board and executives regarding
harassment policies.
I understand the concerns of some of the members about the potential misuse
of the membership mailing list by an alleged "agent" of Director Thompson
(and/or ORI), as well as understanding the reasoning Director Thompson put
forward for the ORI return address on mailing in question.

One thing I do not understand is why any of this does (or did) affect
Director Stoddard?   Why was corporate documentation withheld from him?
 From what I can tell, he has no relation to ORI.   Is it because his
candidate statement was included with the ORI mailing (I don't even know if
it was, I cannot remember and didn't save my mailing)?   Was it because he
hesitated (or refused) to sign the new NDA?   Or did he sign the new NDA?
  Were all other BoD members asked to sign the NDA prior to being given
access to the corporate documents that were alleged to be withheld from
Dirs. Stoddard and Thompson?   Is that NDA now SOP for all new Directors
and Executives?

Again, I have had very positive relationships with almost everybody
involved, so I want to be sure I understand exactly what has happened so
that I can make an informed decision when it is time to vote for new
Directors.   If anybody feels that I have portrayed them unfairly or
incorrectly, please let me know.

I know this is just more fuel on the fire, and for that, I apologize.   I
hope we can all put this behind us soon.

--Roy
K3RLD

From johnbrier at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 18:33:27 2020
From: johnbrier at gmail.com (John Brier)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 14:33:27 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA, another perspective
In-Reply-To: <CALn0fKOSWvTNq+OwUkz+dU6ZLq-jGOTh-vGQ6ORS+1uugAt4YQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJgz9AY+ee-htyrHzRhrGbkW+bNkwkxrAF+KFR5bOnrCKiWDzA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALn0fKOSWvTNq+OwUkz+dU6ZLq-jGOTh-vGQ6ORS+1uugAt4YQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALn0fKMRmGJb+oJ4rb40sX-QKxj6bESkRCOZiXiuo4S3rGfoPA@mail.gmail.com>

I forgot to mention, I was on the BoD of a local online radio station
(we had intentions of being an LPFM, but that didn't work out). We had
quarterly meetings, and the org was extremely small. So one meeting a
year for an org as large as AMSAT seems very odd to me.

73, John Brier KG4AKV

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 2:21 PM John Brier <johnbrier at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From what I understand, what started this was just different opinions
> about ways of doing things between Patrick and officers/directors, and
> in different ways, between Michelle and officers/directors. They each
> have very different contributions to AMSAT, and that they ran into
> similar issues from those different avenues gives more credence to
> their claims.
>
> With Patrick it was mostly about issues with how AO-92 L-band
> operations were run. With Michelle there seems to have been tensions
> going back further, between her and Jerry most recently it seems. She
> has dealt with sexism in this community. I saw it first hand when she
> gave the AMSAT/TAPR keynote at Hamvention a few years ago. I talk
> about that here:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ9Rch9MjjM
>
> BTW, IMO I felt there was never a threat she would sue AMSAT over
> discrimination. From talking to Michelle, she has dealt with sexism a
> lot in her career and much worse than what she reported publicly about
> AMSAT. I think she is more interested in doing things and the sexism
> was just one of the impediments she experienced related to getting
> things done. With the money she has raised recently for AMSAT I think
> she is trying to show that, and I think she succeeded. She has a lot
> of free time and abilities and has and is offering a lot to the
> community.
>
> AMSAT didn't have to hire a lawyer to get an anti-discrimination
> policy. There are dozens of open source projects, sponsored by large
> corporations, that have policies they could have adapted. It is also
> interesting that they adopted a policy after the accusations, and then
> decided hers didn't meet the definition of discrimination in the
> adopted policy. Not that that can't be done ethically, there is just a
> huge pitfall in adopting a policy after accusations have been made.
>
> I am not sure about the accusations she made, but does anyone else
> remember what I referred to in my video? Could AMSAT publicly
> acknowledge that and say it is not acceptable?
>
> With Patrick, the idea that he harassed Drew over issues with AO-92
> L-band does not seem like a reasonable description of what I know
> about that situation.
>
> As I said in the video above Drew behaved hypocritically and when
> Patrick pointed that out I thought it was courageous. There were also
> issues with Drew blocking Patrick on Twitter. That info is on
> Patrick's website.
>
> IMO the use of words like attack to describe accusations is over the
> top. It was criticism. And what threats were levied? That he would run
> for a directors seat? Attack and threat are strong words and some
> definitions use violence to describe them.
>
> I don't think Drew or others handled valid criticism well. The
> blocking of access to the email archives and then the opening due to
> the demand letter show to me that their judgement in blocking that was
> wrong, and that they actually haven't been welcoming to the new
> directors. Clayton also said in his own letter that the only power
> they have is to vote during meetings... and they only had one meeting
> in a year!
>
> The last thing I will leave you with is a quote from a blogger I
> follow that outlines how the ways we evolved make it exceptionally
> hard for anyone to deal with situations like this well:
>
> "As some evolutionary psychologists argue, our moral instincts didn?t
> evolve to help us to discern right from wrong, but to help us convince
> other humans that we?d make good additions to their clan?that we hate
> their enemies, share their affinities, and shake our heads at the same
> behaviors.
>
> That?s why having your beliefs affirmed by others feels so good, even
> when the belief is devoid of moral significance: that the Packers are
> better than the Vikings, or that your favorite movie doesn?t deserve
> its bad reviews.
>
> Enjoying this feeling doesn?t even require the belief to be true,
> which explains why people are generally uninterested in contradictory
> evidence, and why solidarity groups form around claims that the earth
> is flat, that vaccines cause autism, and that the real Paul McCartney
> died in a 1966 car crash.
>
> Because existing beliefs feel so much better than ideas we don?t yet
> believe, we all drift naturally toward the comforts of the echo
> chamber."
>
> - David Cain
>
> 73, John Brier KG4AKV
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 1:06 PM Russ Ramirez via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > I have been a member on/off since 2012. I have never been removed from this
> > AMSAT mailing list, but have not always been able to log into the AMSAT.org
> > web site. In spite of this, I have renewed my membership, typically at
> > Hamvention (until this year, but did so online), and made extra purchases
> > to support the work of AMSAT.
> >
> > I definitely echo the message of Hans BX2ABT. Not everyone is bad, but
> > unfortunately too many are not good either.
> >
> > When reading over each point of view of this ongoing dispute, it is not
> > very clear what started this dispute. In a statement in response to
> > allegations of financial mismanagement, Clayton wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *AMSAT's corporate records give a full accounting of all expendituresand
> > are provided to its Directors upon request, in compliance with ourgoverning
> > documents and law of the District of Columbia (D.C.) Ouroffice remains
> > closed due to COVID-19, where those documents reside.Furthermore, AMSAT
> > complies with IRS rules for 501(c)(3) disclosure ofpublic financial
> > documents, such as the Form 990 available on theAMSAT website  *
> >
> > The above statement is either wholly true, or gray, because making a
> > statement like this which is completely false would be illegal.
> >
> > Michelle, you have claimed that you (and Patrick) were denied access to
> > financial transaction records upon your written request. Can we simply
> > focus on *what* specifically started this whole thing?
> >
> > Russ Ramirez
> > K0WFS
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 13 19:19:51 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 12:19:51 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Non Profits and Boards
In-Reply-To: <fffe4afb-ddc2-e1b6-df98-7e9ff691caaa@charter.net>
References: <mailman.6609.1594617120.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<fffe4afb-ddc2-e1b6-df98-7e9ff691caaa@charter.net>
Message-ID: <83795433-31fe-448e-80fd-8ed03752c757@yahoo.com>

Michael,

My phone battery was gasping for life and as a result the screen, or my brain, became scrozzled.

My apologies. All is copasetic now.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 13, 2020, 11:00, at 11:00, Michael Tondee via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>I have no idea what this below is supposed to insinuate if anything but
>
>to set the record straight, I am responsible for two recent post both
>of 
>which I stand by. The "cookie jar" reference and the opinion that AMSAT
>
>has been stagnant and absent of any real innovation for years. The 
>"stagnant" post never went through for whatever reason so I ended up 
>forwarding it again. Yes, that's full my name and call, been at the
>same 
>QTH for 27 years and my opinions are my own. The call was originally my
>
>late father's.
>
> ?Even though? I'm not a member any more, I keep up with this list 
>because I keep hoping this organization will do something to show me it
>
>deserves my support. Needless to say this latest fiasco doesn't do
>that. 
>From the outside looking in AMSAT is broken and it was broken long 
>before this scandal. Now I'm repeating myself, for what good it does. 
>Y'all really should clean house in your next election. Misappropriation
>
>of funds in a non profit is no laughing matter. I will gladly join
>again 
>if I see that happen and I begin to see this organization moving
>forward 
>again.
>
>73,
>
>Michael W4HIJ
>
>
>
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 20:33:28 -0700
>> From: W3AB/GEO <w3ab at yahoo.com>
>> To: Dwayne Sinclair <nna6us at gmail.com>
>> Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
>> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Non Profits and Boards
>> Message-ID: <cdead1a6-a683-4af9-a92c-8d3083e8d5f4 at yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> Now it gets even better.
>>
>> Who is NA6US? Dwayne Sinclair? Didn't come up on qrz.com.
>>
>> Why was this posted under
>>
>> MICHAEL A TONDEE, W4HIJ's name?
>>
>>
>> ?___
>> Sent from my two way wrist watch
>> 73 de W3AB/GEO?
>>
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 13 19:23:58 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 12:23:58 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] To the current BOD
References: <01fa2267-62bb-445e-a6e1-de678bcf2215.ref@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <01fa2267-62bb-445e-a6e1-de678bcf2215@yahoo.com>

Follow the bylaws, now!

Enough of this BS. Nobody cares who is "right". The GM wants Amsat to move forward. You have heard them.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

From russ.ramirez at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 19:44:20 2020
From: russ.ramirez at gmail.com (Russ Ramirez)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 14:44:20 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA, another perspective
In-Reply-To: <CALn0fKMRmGJb+oJ4rb40sX-QKxj6bESkRCOZiXiuo4S3rGfoPA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJgz9AY+ee-htyrHzRhrGbkW+bNkwkxrAF+KFR5bOnrCKiWDzA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALn0fKOSWvTNq+OwUkz+dU6ZLq-jGOTh-vGQ6ORS+1uugAt4YQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALn0fKMRmGJb+oJ4rb40sX-QKxj6bESkRCOZiXiuo4S3rGfoPA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJgz9AY6dNb5guqjDajhvT-oo15oc_J5X7itaTbkYkE2K=DcTQ@mail.gmail.com>

As it happens, I am already familiar with your YT channel and referenced
video, good stuff - thanks for the reply John.

Also want to give Peter, W2PP, a shout for spending so much time reading
through all the documentation there is out there, bravo for taking the time
to do that.

The two observations I have made is that 1) there seems to be right and
wrong on both sides, and that 2) the entire BoD should resign, opening up
the positions to anyone who's willing to put forth details on what they
plan to contribute to AMSAT if elected, and let the rest of us decide from
there based (mostly) on not knowing any of the players personally. If that
means delaying the next election cycle, then so be it. I agree with the
opinion that others shared that AMSAT-NA is/was falling behind the other
global organizations; simply based on who's putting Sats into orbit. Maybe
an attempt has been made to get support from the likes of Elon Musk or
similar, but if there's not even been an attempt made to do something
along these lines, that would be unfortunate. Seems like putting Sats into
space is about more than ham radio, or pure commercial interests.

Russ K0WFS

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 1:33 PM John Brier <johnbrier at gmail.com> wrote:

> I forgot to mention, I was on the BoD of a local online radio station
> (we had intentions of being an LPFM, but that didn't work out). We had
> quarterly meetings, and the org was extremely small. So one meeting a
> year for an org as large as AMSAT seems very odd to me.
>
> 73, John Brier KG4AKV
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 2:21 PM John Brier <johnbrier at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > From what I understand, what started this was just different opinions
> > about ways of doing things between Patrick and officers/directors, and
> > in different ways, between Michelle and officers/directors. They each
> > have very different contributions to AMSAT, and that they ran into
> > similar issues from those different avenues gives more credence to
> > their claims.
> >
> > With Patrick it was mostly about issues with how AO-92 L-band
> > operations were run. With Michelle there seems to have been tensions
> > going back further, between her and Jerry most recently it seems. She
> > has dealt with sexism in this community. I saw it first hand when she
> > gave the AMSAT/TAPR keynote at Hamvention a few years ago. I talk
> > about that here:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ9Rch9MjjM
> >
> > BTW, IMO I felt there was never a threat she would sue AMSAT over
> > discrimination. From talking to Michelle, she has dealt with sexism a
> > lot in her career and much worse than what she reported publicly about
> > AMSAT. I think she is more interested in doing things and the sexism
> > was just one of the impediments she experienced related to getting
> > things done. With the money she has raised recently for AMSAT I think
> > she is trying to show that, and I think she succeeded. She has a lot
> > of free time and abilities and has and is offering a lot to the
> > community.
> >
> > AMSAT didn't have to hire a lawyer to get an anti-discrimination
> > policy. There are dozens of open source projects, sponsored by large
> > corporations, that have policies they could have adapted. It is also
> > interesting that they adopted a policy after the accusations, and then
> > decided hers didn't meet the definition of discrimination in the
> > adopted policy. Not that that can't be done ethically, there is just a
> > huge pitfall in adopting a policy after accusations have been made.
> >
> > I am not sure about the accusations she made, but does anyone else
> > remember what I referred to in my video? Could AMSAT publicly
> > acknowledge that and say it is not acceptable?
> >
> > With Patrick, the idea that he harassed Drew over issues with AO-92
> > L-band does not seem like a reasonable description of what I know
> > about that situation.
> >
> > As I said in the video above Drew behaved hypocritically and when
> > Patrick pointed that out I thought it was courageous. There were also
> > issues with Drew blocking Patrick on Twitter. That info is on
> > Patrick's website.
> >
> > IMO the use of words like attack to describe accusations is over the
> > top. It was criticism. And what threats were levied? That he would run
> > for a directors seat? Attack and threat are strong words and some
> > definitions use violence to describe them.
> >
> > I don't think Drew or others handled valid criticism well. The
> > blocking of access to the email archives and then the opening due to
> > the demand letter show to me that their judgement in blocking that was
> > wrong, and that they actually haven't been welcoming to the new
> > directors. Clayton also said in his own letter that the only power
> > they have is to vote during meetings... and they only had one meeting
> > in a year!
> >
> > The last thing I will leave you with is a quote from a blogger I
> > follow that outlines how the ways we evolved make it exceptionally
> > hard for anyone to deal with situations like this well:
> >
> > "As some evolutionary psychologists argue, our moral instincts didn?t
> > evolve to help us to discern right from wrong, but to help us convince
> > other humans that we?d make good additions to their clan?that we hate
> > their enemies, share their affinities, and shake our heads at the same
> > behaviors.
> >
> > That?s why having your beliefs affirmed by others feels so good, even
> > when the belief is devoid of moral significance: that the Packers are
> > better than the Vikings, or that your favorite movie doesn?t deserve
> > its bad reviews.
> >
> > Enjoying this feeling doesn?t even require the belief to be true,
> > which explains why people are generally uninterested in contradictory
> > evidence, and why solidarity groups form around claims that the earth
> > is flat, that vaccines cause autism, and that the real Paul McCartney
> > died in a 1966 car crash.
> >
> > Because existing beliefs feel so much better than ideas we don?t yet
> > believe, we all drift naturally toward the comforts of the echo
> > chamber."
> >
> > - David Cain
> >
> > 73, John Brier KG4AKV
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 1:06 PM Russ Ramirez via AMSAT-BB
> > <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have been a member on/off since 2012. I have never been removed from
> this
> > > AMSAT mailing list, but have not always been able to log into the
> AMSAT.org
> > > web site. In spite of this, I have renewed my membership, typically at
> > > Hamvention (until this year, but did so online), and made extra
> purchases
> > > to support the work of AMSAT.
> > >
> > > I definitely echo the message of Hans BX2ABT. Not everyone is bad, but
> > > unfortunately too many are not good either.
> > >
> > > When reading over each point of view of this ongoing dispute, it is not
> > > very clear what started this dispute. In a statement in response to
> > > allegations of financial mismanagement, Clayton wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *AMSAT's corporate records give a full accounting of all
> expendituresand
> > > are provided to its Directors upon request, in compliance with
> ourgoverning
> > > documents and law of the District of Columbia (D.C.) Ouroffice remains
> > > closed due to COVID-19, where those documents reside.Furthermore, AMSAT
> > > complies with IRS rules for 501(c)(3) disclosure ofpublic financial
> > > documents, such as the Form 990 available on theAMSAT website  *
> > >
> > > The above statement is either wholly true, or gray, because making a
> > > statement like this which is completely false would be illegal.
> > >
> > > Michelle, you have claimed that you (and Patrick) were denied access to
> > > financial transaction records upon your written request. Can we simply
> > > focus on *what* specifically started this whole thing?
> > >
> > > Russ Ramirez
> > > K0WFS
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From dave at druidnetworks.com  Mon Jul 13 19:55:28 2020
From: dave at druidnetworks.com (David Swanson)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 14:55:28 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOv-v8yj5NwO7XKz=nwxb+p1u-7FUF+fTJUKuNvQ7BPP7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2U2fCYU4r8fLYE49HG80VHCRh9_LyW-5QQ5JP-cdNkUsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyWHQ8o369h6=fqi1PJLWuMGP-1dTVj5Oej2CstAPY8S-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2U4M0XDpWM9L9-fr27vxJ6FaT8iGJHvf98U39SX4Zk7=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyXFLpC9t8jMG-8+x6TxQSTYFeKQ0s=_8j-g=LV98P4+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOv-v8yj5NwO7XKz=nwxb+p1u-7FUF+fTJUKuNvQ7BPP7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANq+eyWya+vbTgG=C+9JKoe6BpX44MEMh9jwEzhpqZQLo_robg@mail.gmail.com>

My apologies on the Twitter claim - when I tried loading it from source
nothing was displaying pre January 28th, 2020 - the day of your 'I am
signing off of social networking' declaration. (How'd that go btw?) I only
assumed you had deleted your tweets.

As to your never ending story changing about the mailing list, I was born
at night, but it wasn't last night. Go try your story on another mark.

-Dave, KG5CCI

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 2:45 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:

> David,
>
> My tweet was NOT deleted, and is still on twitter at
> https://twitter.com/BrucePerens/status/1154844208458416128
> As stated repeatedly, both by myself and Michelle, I did not handle the
> mailing list, she did. Which was 100% her right as a candidate.
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Bruce
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 11:26 AM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> It's always fun to remind folks tripping over their own feat lying that
>> the
>> internet is forever. From a Bruce Perens Tweet on July 13, 2020:
>>
>> "Please see my letter on the web, or the paper copy I've mailed to
>> everyone
>> one of you".
>>
>> Of course the original tweet was deleted, but the wayback machine never
>> forgets. Don't Believe me? http://druidnetworks.com/2020-07-13.png
>>
>> If you still think the membership list wasn't compromised, I just heard
>> Director Thompson will be auctioning off their ocean front property in
>> Arizona to all the members this year to raise funds for their microwave,
>> digital only, strictly open source crowd funded, vegan, social justice
>> aware cubesat launch to Proxima Centauri. Of course this launch will only
>> come after 10 years of ground station development, but fueled with enough
>> hopes, dreams and promises it will become a reality!
>>
>> For the rest of us who actually want to keep amateur radio in (real) space
>> and are disgusted at the violations of privacy that occured by 3rd parties
>> working to get Director Thompson and Director Stoddard elected, well, you
>> should know what to do.
>>
>> -Dave, KG5CCI
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:24 AM Michelle Thompson <
>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > No database went anywhere except to candidates. This is allowed in the
>> > bylaws.
>> >
>> > Then, an automated bulk mail printing server was used. I recommended the
>> > company to Brennan Price for this year's mailing. Good service,
>> > inexpensive.
>> >
>> > Return addresses don't magically transfer information.
>> >
>> > -Michelle W5NYV
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 04:32 David Swanson <dave at druidnetworks.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Spin Spin Spin. The simple truth here is Director Thompson took the
>> AMSAT
>> >> member database, and handed it over to a 3rd party competing entity
>> for the
>> >> purpose of solicitation. I know I did not give ORI my home address,
>> yet ORI
>> >> sent me a letter. This was a violation of my privacy, and for AMSAT
>> >> members living in the EU, this was a violation of the law. Any attempt
>> to
>> >> explain this away is just more lies and deceit from Director Thompson
>> about
>> >> the shady practices they have engaged in over the past few years. As I
>> keep
>> >> saying, this isn't a one time thing, this is a pattern of
>> >> reprehensible behavior that is unbecoming of an elected position and
>> this
>> >> community. Director Thompson and Director Stoddard should resign.
>> >>
>> >> -Dave, KG5CCI
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:33 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>> >> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Yes, I can.
>> >>>
>> >>> That part of Clayton's letter is wrong and has been repeatedly
>> clarified
>> >>> before. Including at the 2019 annual board meeting, where Tom Clark
>> asked
>> >>> me about it, as part of the record.
>> >>>
>> >>> Clayton Coleman was secretary in 2019.
>> >>>
>> >>> He ran the election.
>> >>>
>> >>> He decided that candidate statements were limited in length to 350
>> words,
>> >>> would be subject to editorial control by AMSAT, and could not include
>> >>> links. These new rules were given to us right before the 4th of July
>> >>> holiday with a deadline of the 7th.
>> >>>
>> >>> This is different than any election before, where statements went
>> >>> directly
>> >>> to the printer from the candidate, were not limited in length, and no
>> one
>> >>> from AMSAT leadership (who might be running for reelection themselves)
>> >>> had
>> >>> any control over the content of their challengers' statements.
>> >>>
>> >>> We got these rules right before ballots went out. We (four
>> challengers)
>> >>> already had normal-sized statements on the web and they had been up
>> six
>> >>> weeks at that point. Those were the ones we wanted to use, and link
>> to.
>> >>>
>> >>> We knew that as candidates, we had the right to request the mailing
>> list,
>> >>> and send our own statements, independent of the ballot.
>> >>>
>> >>> I requested the address list and got the DBASE4 export.
>> >>>
>> >>> Bruce Perens had already written a letter of support and distributed
>> it
>> >>> widely on the web. It introduced us and included our four full bios
>> and
>> >>> statements.
>> >>>
>> >>> I asked Bruce if we could use his letter in the mailing. He said yes.
>> >>> Since
>> >>> he was President of Open Research Institute at the time, he wanted the
>> >>> return address to not be his private home address, but a business
>> >>> address.
>> >>> That was ORI's address. He was the author of the endorsement, so I
>> used
>> >>> his
>> >>> preferred return address.
>> >>>
>> >>> I converted the DBASE4 to a more useful format, fixed the 50 or so
>> >>> undeliverable addresses, and found an inexpensive printer. Then I sent
>> >>> the
>> >>> letter from Bruce to the printer, with the bios and statements.
>> >>>
>> >>> That turned out to be a good thing. Bios and statements were not
>> included
>> >>> with the ballots mailed out, at all.
>> >>>
>> >>> If we had not sent the letter, then name recognition would be the
>> primary
>> >>> factor. We were running against well-known people.
>> >>>
>> >>> We complained about this. It was unusual departure from the past and
>> >>> seemed
>> >>> set up to let leadership benefit from being incumbents.
>> >>>
>> >>> The original proposal from Clayton was for an electronic only ballot.
>> >>> Patrick said that the bylaws were a bit clunky here and it did need
>> to be
>> >>> mailed out on paper. Paper was required.
>> >>>
>> >>> This is a big reason why I made a motion at our one  board meeting, in
>> >>> March, for a bylaws committee.
>> >>>
>> >>> This bylaw isn't hard to fix. There's lots of examples out there of
>> >>> organizations doing electronic voting with working published bylaws.
>> >>>
>> >>> Bruce made it very clear, when the incumbents stirred up the pot about
>> >>> the
>> >>> return address, that it was an endorsement from him, this was commonly
>> >>> done
>> >>> in political campaigns, and it would be grossly improper for me to use
>> >>> AMSATs return address because that would make it look like Bruce was
>> >>> speaking for or was from AMSAT. That was not going to happen. *That*
>> >>> would
>> >>> be improper.
>> >>>
>> >>> No one candidate wanted their personal address used as a return
>> address.
>> >>> We
>> >>> were mailing this as a slate and splitting the cost. We didn't have
>> time
>> >>> or
>> >>> funds to make an organization or rent a box for one letter on short
>> >>> notice.
>> >>> The printer required a real return address.
>> >>>
>> >>> No one had the address list except the candidates. Namely me because I
>> >>> contracted the printer and handled the DBASE4 address conversion. That
>> >>> is a
>> >>> neat story in and of itself,, for another time.
>> >>>
>> >>> Bruce only sent the text to me and chipped in some money for postage.
>> >>>
>> >>> The printing was automated in Van Nuys, CA.
>> >>>
>> >>> All of this is known to Clayton Coleman and his friends on the board
>> that
>> >>> signed the statement from this week. It has been explained by Bruce
>> >>> publicly, and by me several times on social media. Tom Clark brought
>> it
>> >>> up
>> >>> at the 2019 annual board meeting because of the return address
>> >>> pot-stirring. I explained it there too. Like I said, it's on the
>> record.
>> >>>
>> >>> I think insinuating the addresses were mishandled is a deliberate
>> >>> twisting
>> >>> of honest efforts to scramble to get uncensored candidate statements
>> out
>> >>> to
>> >>> voters on short notice. We just didn't have a lot of time, and Bruce
>> was
>> >>> very generous in writing a cover letter.
>> >>>
>> >>> Again, candidates are allowed the use of the mailing lists for
>> election
>> >>> purposes.
>> >>>
>> >>> So, no, there was no breach. Clayton knows all this.
>> >>>
>> >>> Saying it the way he did is a cheap shot at me, Patrick, Bruce Perens,
>> >>> and
>> >>> ORI.
>> >>>
>> >>>  -Michelle W5NYV
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 19:11 Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> >   Hello All,
>> >>> >
>> >>> >    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we
>> all
>> >>> > received as members.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed
>> >>> before.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to
>> >>> > Open Research Institute."
>> >>> >
>> >>> >     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a
>> >>> serious
>> >>> > breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?
>> >>> > was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they
>> say
>> >>> > "out in the wind"?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack
>> how
>> >>> > ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something
>> >>> > that was procured online?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what
>> it
>> >>> > found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening
>> in
>> >>> > the future.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I look forward to an answer
>> >>> >
>> >>> > 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>> available
>> >>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> >>> Opinions
>> >>> > expressed
>> >>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>> views
>> >>> of
>> >>> > AMSAT-NA.
>> >>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> >>> program!
>> >>> > Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >>> >
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> >>> Opinions expressed
>> >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of
>> >>> AMSAT-NA.
>> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> >>> program!
>> >>> Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >>>
>> >>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>
>
> --
> Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
> :-)
>

From skristof at etczone.com  Mon Jul 13 19:59:48 2020
From: skristof at etczone.com (Steve Kristoff)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 15:59:48 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Brief summary of the "unauthorized expenses" claim
In-Reply-To: <CANsNeaoAOL8BRBS8efmhNVC8-vQ3cWb3+uF2X1pkpe05=t2jFA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANsNeaoAOL8BRBS8efmhNVC8-vQ3cWb3+uF2X1pkpe05=t2jFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1fdeda8fb65dcf349de22015c4600119@etczone.com>


But even in your own evaluation there are contradictions.

Quote from your email: "If an expense went to the board for approval, it would show up in the
? minutes of that board meeting."

Further down your email: "- In this case, the members of the AMSAT board at the time said that the
? expenses were authorized."

?
Then, by your own evaluation of the by-laws, if the members of the board authorized the expenditures (second quote), shouldn't that authorization show up in the minutes of the board meeting? (first quote)

Steve AI9IN

?
----- Original Message -----
From: Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
Date: 07/13/20 15:25
To: Amsat - BBs (AMSAT-BB at amsat.org)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Brief summary of the "unauthorized expenses" claim

First: I'm not a lawyer. ?These are my observations only.

This is what I learned over the past few days while researching the claim
that the AMSAT money spent on legal services related to the new directors
was "unauthorized".

? - I read the AMSAT bylaws. ?They are very readable, BTW - and not long.
? - The bylaws say that expenses can be authorized either by the board
? itself or by the officers of AMSAT if the board delegates that authority.
? - If an expense went to the board for approval, it would show up in the
? minutes of that board meeting.
? - If an expense were authorized by an officer, then it wouldn't show up
? in the minutes of a board meeting.
? - The claim that the expenses were unauthorized was based on the
? observation that there was no record in the board meeting minutes of the
? authorization. ?However, as mentioned above, not everything has to go to
? the board for approval. ?And that decision is up to the board itself.
? - In this case, the members of the AMSAT board at the time said that the
? expenses were authorized.
? - Since the board has the authority to authorize expenditures (directly
? or indirectly) and they say the expenses were authorized, that indicates to
? me that the expenses were authorized.

Note: Michelle and Patrick were not members of the board when this
happened. ?They were analyzing this after the fact.

Rich
KD2CQ
AMSAT Life Member
_______________________________________________



From bruce at perens.com  Mon Jul 13 18:09:12 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 11:09:12 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <CAM42370gZLv4sZcrux141-ty4usj-3u1pc2CUBZ+NbHJe_ZMUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6595.1594607750.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<CAM42373tYrrqGbg3e82LWVzvTMa468eG08Jy7taBdxVUN_Px-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtaYqGL78Pa03AC=a3fFLz9V6=ydrxPk6mB1_21yN_zPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM42370gZLv4sZcrux141-ty4usj-3u1pc2CUBZ+NbHJe_ZMUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOv13HXELW1kRJiZWGo2GUTBXgOV39atn5xVWY5SrKztzw@mail.gmail.com>

The point I was trying to make was that by posing Robert's Rules as the
tool of unsavory individuals, you seem to pose all rules that way. I think
we should both agree that corporate directors should know their bylaws. It
was my experience that Clayton did not read them before taking on operating
the AMSAT election. AMSAT had to be told that it had a responsibility to
provide addresses to the candidates for campaigning. The bylaws also call
for the organizations publications to be available for campaigning - which
is still not being fulfilled.

Thanks

Bruce

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 12:31 AM Paul F. Merrill <marinesvcs at gmail.com> wrote:

> I know what they are.  It was an example, perhaps too subtle, of the
> continually-plumbed depths of human dipshittery.
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 23:01 Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>
>> Paul,
>>
>> Roberts Rules are regarding parliamentary procedure. AMSAT's bylaws are
>> at
>> https://www.amsat.org/bylaws-of-the-radio-amateur-satellite-corporation/
>> . They do not specify parliamentary procedure. They are about
>> responsibilities of a director, elections, etc. And if you have the choice,
>> Roberts is an antique, good parliamentarians use Sturgis.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:12 PM Paul F. Merrill via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree that this mailing list has strayed from its strongest
>>> contribution:
>>> satellite information, discussion, and mentoring.
>>>
>>> I come from, and have been on the BOD of, a professional organization
>>> for a
>>> number of years now.
>>>
>>> FWIW, I know too well that an organization often lawyers up to protect
>>> itself, and in our issues, our attorney was engaged to act solely on
>>> behalf
>>> of the Organization and not necessarily current management.
>>>
>>> This thread has turned in to a long, ugly diatribe filled with
>>> accusations,
>>> counter-accusations, and painfully-obvious shills.  I am a
>>> recently-renewed
>>> member who doesn?t have a dog in the fight, so I just want what?s best
>>> for
>>> AMSAT.
>>>
>>> Sadly, the stereotypes are starting to show - the members who contribute
>>> nothing but want to tear down those ?In power,? the members who
>>> contribute
>>> nothing and don?t want anyone to make waves, and the few who actually do
>>> anything.  As a number of people have commented, working in a non-profit
>>> or
>>> unpaid leadership role is utterly thankless, which is lost on many
>>> people -
>>> especially those who have never labored in this sort of endeavor.
>>>
>>> My favorite story from our times of trouble is when our Parliamentarian
>>> said, ?Roberts Rules are the last refuge of a scoundrel.  Grown men and
>>> women should be able to comport themselves reasonably...but then I?d be
>>> out
>>> of a job.?   I?m taking a little license with his exact words, but the
>>> sentiment, along with my experience, formed my native distrust of those
>>> who
>>> are right and everyone and everything before them is wrong.  So...there?s
>>> my bias.  I will examine that, and all the information I can before I
>>> vote.  I hope everyone else will take the time and expend the effort to
>>> vote as intelligently as they can.
>>>
>>> My overriding guidance to my Association is that we contribute to the
>>> group
>>> so that we all benefit from the group.  A strong organization should
>>> outlive us.
>>>
>>> Personally, I can?t wait to vote and hopefully put a fork in this.
>>>
>>> Paul / W7IV
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ????????-
>>>
>>> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 19:27:24 -0700
>>> From: "Daron Wilson" <daron at wilson.org>
>>> To: "'AMSAT BB'" <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
>>> Message-ID: <00b501d658bd$26119cc0$7234d640$@org>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>> Is there a bulletin board that discusses amateur radio satellites
>>> operations still?   Asking for a friend.  This is getting old.
>>>
>>>
>>> Daron N7HQR
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>

From bruce at perens.com  Mon Jul 13 19:13:46 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 12:13:46 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Why we are having this big unpleasant argument on your
 satellite mailing list
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOsL+EO6q3QnLjL395uSeLZR8QnkUuD9q3nJ+O4e7Kvytw@mail.gmail.com>

Most of you are members of AMSAT. IMO the organization has some serious
problems, and as members it is your duty to steer the organization with
your votes. That means that you should remain aware of what is going on and
you should make an informed vote. The satellite discussions go on, mostly
uninterrupted, all year. A short break for politics is not unreasonable,
and acrimonious discussion is to be expected when we take that break.

Organisations are run by people who would not be doing the work if they did
not have strong emotions about it. And they all have their own failings.
Unfortunately, volunteer non-profit directors (and many public ones in big
corporations) never learn a critical skill of democracy: *how to deal
properly with opposition. *That is the root of what we are arguing about
now. Opposition are not the enemy! Yet, they are clearly being treated as
such. They are simply people who would reform the organization or take it
in a different direction from the incumbents.

In this case, Michelle and Patrick, before they were elected, were the
loyal opposition - dedicated to a better organization, and deeply troubled
by the decisions and conduct of the incumbent board. The incumbent's
response was not to work with the opposition, but to hunker down and use
lawyers. To the incumbent's great distress, the very same people got sent
to the board by the membership! Leading to more lawyers. IMO the incumbents
should have read this as a signal from the membership, rather than doubling
down their resistance.

The sad reality is that the newly-elected directors have never been allowed
to function as directors. You should be concerned, since they are the
people whom you elected to represent you. The main means used to disable
your elected representatives has been refusal by the incumbents to hold
board meetings. This refusal is almost total, with exactly *one* meeting
being held after the organization's annual convention.

The second means used to disenfranchise the newly-elected directors was
that the incumbents withheld information which a director would generally
be expected to have access to. As it happened, this information was at
least in part discussion of those very same people, and contracting of
legal counsel in a process against them.

Every board has the right to legal counsel. But it's expensive, and must be
used wisely. This was not a wise use. A wise use would have been to engage
the opposition rather than to hunker down.

One very large cause of all of this is that the same people have been
running AMSAT for a very long time, and it becomes an echo chamber after a
while - the us-vs-them mentality of the board vs. the opposition - but
really the board vs. everyone else - becomes self-reinforcing.

This is obviously wrong for the organization. The solution is simple, and
every organization needs it: *regular turn-over of the people in the
organization's leadership. *Not the stratification that we currently have.

You can fix this by electing more new blood to the board.

    Thanks

    Bruce

-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)

From W2CZ at optonline.net  Mon Jul 13 19:06:31 2020
From: W2CZ at optonline.net (Efrem Acosta)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 15:06:31 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] A question
Message-ID: <F1920021-98F0-4650-B305-74A7DB72521E@optonline.net>

Is it true all posts now on this board are being held for approval by a moderator?



73 De W2CZ
Sent from my iPhone

From bruce at perens.com  Mon Jul 13 19:45:19 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 12:45:19 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <CANq+eyXFLpC9t8jMG-8+x6TxQSTYFeKQ0s=_8j-g=LV98P4+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2U2fCYU4r8fLYE49HG80VHCRh9_LyW-5QQ5JP-cdNkUsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyWHQ8o369h6=fqi1PJLWuMGP-1dTVj5Oej2CstAPY8S-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2U4M0XDpWM9L9-fr27vxJ6FaT8iGJHvf98U39SX4Zk7=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyXFLpC9t8jMG-8+x6TxQSTYFeKQ0s=_8j-g=LV98P4+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOv-v8yj5NwO7XKz=nwxb+p1u-7FUF+fTJUKuNvQ7BPP7g@mail.gmail.com>

David,

My tweet was NOT deleted, and is still on twitter at
https://twitter.com/BrucePerens/status/1154844208458416128
As stated repeatedly, both by myself and Michelle, I did not handle the
mailing list, she did. Which was 100% her right as a candidate.

    Thanks

    Bruce

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 11:26 AM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> It's always fun to remind folks tripping over their own feat lying that the
> internet is forever. From a Bruce Perens Tweet on July 13, 2020:
>
> "Please see my letter on the web, or the paper copy I've mailed to everyone
> one of you".
>
> Of course the original tweet was deleted, but the wayback machine never
> forgets. Don't Believe me? http://druidnetworks.com/2020-07-13.png
>
> If you still think the membership list wasn't compromised, I just heard
> Director Thompson will be auctioning off their ocean front property in
> Arizona to all the members this year to raise funds for their microwave,
> digital only, strictly open source crowd funded, vegan, social justice
> aware cubesat launch to Proxima Centauri. Of course this launch will only
> come after 10 years of ground station development, but fueled with enough
> hopes, dreams and promises it will become a reality!
>
> For the rest of us who actually want to keep amateur radio in (real) space
> and are disgusted at the violations of privacy that occured by 3rd parties
> working to get Director Thompson and Director Stoddard elected, well, you
> should know what to do.
>
> -Dave, KG5CCI
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:24 AM Michelle Thompson <
> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > No database went anywhere except to candidates. This is allowed in the
> > bylaws.
> >
> > Then, an automated bulk mail printing server was used. I recommended the
> > company to Brennan Price for this year's mailing. Good service,
> > inexpensive.
> >
> > Return addresses don't magically transfer information.
> >
> > -Michelle W5NYV
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 04:32 David Swanson <dave at druidnetworks.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Spin Spin Spin. The simple truth here is Director Thompson took the
> AMSAT
> >> member database, and handed it over to a 3rd party competing entity for
> the
> >> purpose of solicitation. I know I did not give ORI my home address, yet
> ORI
> >> sent me a letter. This was a violation of my privacy, and for AMSAT
> >> members living in the EU, this was a violation of the law. Any attempt
> to
> >> explain this away is just more lies and deceit from Director Thompson
> about
> >> the shady practices they have engaged in over the past few years. As I
> keep
> >> saying, this isn't a one time thing, this is a pattern of
> >> reprehensible behavior that is unbecoming of an elected position and
> this
> >> community. Director Thompson and Director Stoddard should resign.
> >>
> >> -Dave, KG5CCI
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:33 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
> >> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Yes, I can.
> >>>
> >>> That part of Clayton's letter is wrong and has been repeatedly
> clarified
> >>> before. Including at the 2019 annual board meeting, where Tom Clark
> asked
> >>> me about it, as part of the record.
> >>>
> >>> Clayton Coleman was secretary in 2019.
> >>>
> >>> He ran the election.
> >>>
> >>> He decided that candidate statements were limited in length to 350
> words,
> >>> would be subject to editorial control by AMSAT, and could not include
> >>> links. These new rules were given to us right before the 4th of July
> >>> holiday with a deadline of the 7th.
> >>>
> >>> This is different than any election before, where statements went
> >>> directly
> >>> to the printer from the candidate, were not limited in length, and no
> one
> >>> from AMSAT leadership (who might be running for reelection themselves)
> >>> had
> >>> any control over the content of their challengers' statements.
> >>>
> >>> We got these rules right before ballots went out. We (four challengers)
> >>> already had normal-sized statements on the web and they had been up six
> >>> weeks at that point. Those were the ones we wanted to use, and link to.
> >>>
> >>> We knew that as candidates, we had the right to request the mailing
> list,
> >>> and send our own statements, independent of the ballot.
> >>>
> >>> I requested the address list and got the DBASE4 export.
> >>>
> >>> Bruce Perens had already written a letter of support and distributed it
> >>> widely on the web. It introduced us and included our four full bios and
> >>> statements.
> >>>
> >>> I asked Bruce if we could use his letter in the mailing. He said yes.
> >>> Since
> >>> he was President of Open Research Institute at the time, he wanted the
> >>> return address to not be his private home address, but a business
> >>> address.
> >>> That was ORI's address. He was the author of the endorsement, so I used
> >>> his
> >>> preferred return address.
> >>>
> >>> I converted the DBASE4 to a more useful format, fixed the 50 or so
> >>> undeliverable addresses, and found an inexpensive printer. Then I sent
> >>> the
> >>> letter from Bruce to the printer, with the bios and statements.
> >>>
> >>> That turned out to be a good thing. Bios and statements were not
> included
> >>> with the ballots mailed out, at all.
> >>>
> >>> If we had not sent the letter, then name recognition would be the
> primary
> >>> factor. We were running against well-known people.
> >>>
> >>> We complained about this. It was unusual departure from the past and
> >>> seemed
> >>> set up to let leadership benefit from being incumbents.
> >>>
> >>> The original proposal from Clayton was for an electronic only ballot.
> >>> Patrick said that the bylaws were a bit clunky here and it did need to
> be
> >>> mailed out on paper. Paper was required.
> >>>
> >>> This is a big reason why I made a motion at our one  board meeting, in
> >>> March, for a bylaws committee.
> >>>
> >>> This bylaw isn't hard to fix. There's lots of examples out there of
> >>> organizations doing electronic voting with working published bylaws.
> >>>
> >>> Bruce made it very clear, when the incumbents stirred up the pot about
> >>> the
> >>> return address, that it was an endorsement from him, this was commonly
> >>> done
> >>> in political campaigns, and it would be grossly improper for me to use
> >>> AMSATs return address because that would make it look like Bruce was
> >>> speaking for or was from AMSAT. That was not going to happen. *That*
> >>> would
> >>> be improper.
> >>>
> >>> No one candidate wanted their personal address used as a return
> address.
> >>> We
> >>> were mailing this as a slate and splitting the cost. We didn't have
> time
> >>> or
> >>> funds to make an organization or rent a box for one letter on short
> >>> notice.
> >>> The printer required a real return address.
> >>>
> >>> No one had the address list except the candidates. Namely me because I
> >>> contracted the printer and handled the DBASE4 address conversion. That
> >>> is a
> >>> neat story in and of itself,, for another time.
> >>>
> >>> Bruce only sent the text to me and chipped in some money for postage.
> >>>
> >>> The printing was automated in Van Nuys, CA.
> >>>
> >>> All of this is known to Clayton Coleman and his friends on the board
> that
> >>> signed the statement from this week. It has been explained by Bruce
> >>> publicly, and by me several times on social media. Tom Clark brought it
> >>> up
> >>> at the 2019 annual board meeting because of the return address
> >>> pot-stirring. I explained it there too. Like I said, it's on the
> record.
> >>>
> >>> I think insinuating the addresses were mishandled is a deliberate
> >>> twisting
> >>> of honest efforts to scramble to get uncensored candidate statements
> out
> >>> to
> >>> voters on short notice. We just didn't have a lot of time, and Bruce
> was
> >>> very generous in writing a cover letter.
> >>>
> >>> Again, candidates are allowed the use of the mailing lists for election
> >>> purposes.
> >>>
> >>> So, no, there was no breach. Clayton knows all this.
> >>>
> >>> Saying it the way he did is a cheap shot at me, Patrick, Bruce Perens,
> >>> and
> >>> ORI.
> >>>
> >>>  -Michelle W5NYV
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 19:11 Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >   Hello All,
> >>> >
> >>> >    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we
> all
> >>> > received as members.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
> >>> >
> >>> > I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed
> >>> before.
> >>> >
> >>> > "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to
> >>> > Open Research Institute."
> >>> >
> >>> >     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a
> >>> serious
> >>> > breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?
> >>> > was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they
> say
> >>> > "out in the wind"?
> >>> >
> >>> > Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how
> >>> > ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something
> >>> > that was procured online?
> >>> >
> >>> > AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what
> it
> >>> > found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in
> >>> > the future.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > I look forward to an answer
> >>> >
> >>> > 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> >>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >>> Opinions
> >>> > expressed
> >>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> >>> of
> >>> > AMSAT-NA.
> >>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >>> program!
> >>> > Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>> >
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >>> Opinions expressed
> >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> >>> AMSAT-NA.
> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >>> program!
> >>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>>
> >>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)

From ve3hls at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 20:04:44 2020
From: ve3hls at gmail.com (Kenneth P Alexander)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 03:04:44 +0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <4c89ff8a749b097c9a39b2d48aa79ed5@etczone.com>
References: <mailman.6647.1594644904.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<1984320037.797478.1594652358770@myemail.cox.net>
	<4c89ff8a749b097c9a39b2d48aa79ed5@etczone.com>
Message-ID: <CAPOM0d=Pt9kPtHNmgxtfZdM4q2JxxqkbMFNM1pAxdj1cZFLFog@mail.gmail.com>

It's not that simple Brian.  If you follow that line of thinking then
people by the thousands would be renouncing their American citizenship
because of the current shitshow in Washington, but I haven't heard of that
happening.

The best thing to do is stay in the game, sort through the hysteria and
misinformation and exercise your right to vote when the time comes.  Then
you can move Amsat back to becoming an organization you'll want to remain a
part of.

Ok, back to sleep for me!

73,

Ken Alexander, VE3HLS
So Phisai, Thailand
Blog:  bueng-ken.com


On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 2:52 AM Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

>
> I worked a satellite just this morning. They are still up there. Just have
> to step away from the computer and turn on the radio.
>
> Steve Ai9IN
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Brian Karcher via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
> Date: 07/13/20 12:10
> To: amsat-bb at amsat.org, amsat-bb-request at amsat.org
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
>
> I thought being a member of AMSAT was about keeping amateur radio in
> space, learning about satellites and for some of us working amateur radio
> satellites in space.  Since the last election AMSAT seems to be about
> nothing but politics and misinformation.  In my opinion AMSAT was a lot
> more fun to be apart of before the last election.  All the politics and
> misinformation drives people away from AMSAT and is not good for the
> organization.  I have been told in the past by one of the new board members
> that all of this is necessary for change to happen.  I don't see that AMSAT
> has to go through some fundamental change or movement.  I am tired of the
> new AMSAT since the last election.  I am seriously considering not renewing
> my membership and I know plenty of other that are considering the same.
> When will all of this end so we can start enjoying AMSAT again and working
> satellites?
>
> Brian D. Karcher
> KG5GJT
>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From dave at druidnetworks.com  Mon Jul 13 20:23:41 2020
From: dave at druidnetworks.com (David Swanson)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 15:23:41 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOvcy8V-UUYKEi9QYKuB5p=Bd-rVVg1KH5DReZ91rwCHcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2U2fCYU4r8fLYE49HG80VHCRh9_LyW-5QQ5JP-cdNkUsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyWHQ8o369h6=fqi1PJLWuMGP-1dTVj5Oej2CstAPY8S-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2U4M0XDpWM9L9-fr27vxJ6FaT8iGJHvf98U39SX4Zk7=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyXFLpC9t8jMG-8+x6TxQSTYFeKQ0s=_8j-g=LV98P4+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOv-v8yj5NwO7XKz=nwxb+p1u-7FUF+fTJUKuNvQ7BPP7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyWya+vbTgG=C+9JKoe6BpX44MEMh9jwEzhpqZQLo_robg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvcy8V-UUYKEi9QYKuB5p=Bd-rVVg1KH5DReZ91rwCHcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANq+eyV985yF4XZAmiZ0oifyutc+nGosE8RgpC0rZjtuC8h6SA@mail.gmail.com>

By your own words, it was YOUR letter, in a letter YOU sent. No matter how
many times you try and repeat the same line now - you've already proven
yourself to be a fraud.

And by the way, people often violate the rules for stupid and unnecassary
reasons. It's very rarely the big lie you get caught in, it's all the
smaller ones you use to cover the big one up.

-Dave, KG5CCI

>

From framirezferrer at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 20:29:50 2020
From: framirezferrer at gmail.com (Fernando Ramirez)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 13:29:50 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] when is the election being discussed?
In-Reply-To: <CAOBpJZoH99bCJ7WSXvRHNafO4Nzy6aYhAJAjfun5MJaoqR-beA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOBpJZoH99bCJ7WSXvRHNafO4Nzy6aYhAJAjfun5MJaoqR-beA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGHXx8jLoX5ADt7jDHfkh-OOBnH3zWFukA8oAHT-0R3Fq9O3Fw@mail.gmail.com>

If you joined our renewed before July 1st, you will be getting a ballot
after July 15.

Saludos
Fernando, KF7R

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 1:26 PM Daniel Velez via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> I joined in June but I haven't seen any ballot info.
> 73 de Dan
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From afeller at ieee.org  Mon Jul 13 20:33:45 2020
From: afeller at ieee.org (Arthur Feller)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 16:33:45 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA, another perspective
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2UH-qLpGcvoWGwa7+J1Zm3wx19yGLJRpD5JbMG70pomjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJgz9AY+ee-htyrHzRhrGbkW+bNkwkxrAF+KFR5bOnrCKiWDzA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2UH-qLpGcvoWGwa7+J1Zm3wx19yGLJRpD5JbMG70pomjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <98C0DFD9-D12C-454B-BC39-30133A8CA3FD@ieee.org>

AMSAT Members:

We?re going around in circles, getting nowhere fast.  No resolution in sight; only repetition, irritation, and turning away new and renewing members.  Not constructive.

Much as these subjects need to be and should be discussed, may I suggest taking this thread offline? 

I?m willing to facilitate an offline discussion.

73, art?..
W4ART  Arlington VA
LM-113

To thrive in life, you need three bones:  a wish bone, a back bone, and a funny bone.
						- Reba McEntire

http://afeller.us <http://afeller.us/>





From w3ab at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 13 20:35:14 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (GEO Badger)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 20:35:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA, another perspective
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2UH-qLpGcvoWGwa7+J1Zm3wx19yGLJRpD5JbMG70pomjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJgz9AY+ee-htyrHzRhrGbkW+bNkwkxrAF+KFR5bOnrCKiWDzA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2UH-qLpGcvoWGwa7+J1Zm3wx19yGLJRpD5JbMG70pomjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <865720374.1065652.1594672514170@mail.yahoo.com>

 I believe that all 501(c)(3) orgs must hold at least one BOD meeting per year or it is in violation of the incorporation rules and the org will risk losing their tax exempt status.
 3 Annual Requirements Every Nonprofit Should Know

| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
3 Annual Requirements Every Nonprofit Should Know

Congratulations, you?ve received 501(c)(3) status, so now what!? PAPERWORK AND MEETINGS! And also working for th...
 |

 |

 |



---??
Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side??
73 de W3AB/GEO ????

http://www.w3ab.org

You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out".

From bruce at perens.com  Mon Jul 13 20:13:20 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 13:13:20 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <CANq+eyWya+vbTgG=C+9JKoe6BpX44MEMh9jwEzhpqZQLo_robg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2U2fCYU4r8fLYE49HG80VHCRh9_LyW-5QQ5JP-cdNkUsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyWHQ8o369h6=fqi1PJLWuMGP-1dTVj5Oej2CstAPY8S-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2U4M0XDpWM9L9-fr27vxJ6FaT8iGJHvf98U39SX4Zk7=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyXFLpC9t8jMG-8+x6TxQSTYFeKQ0s=_8j-g=LV98P4+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOv-v8yj5NwO7XKz=nwxb+p1u-7FUF+fTJUKuNvQ7BPP7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyWya+vbTgG=C+9JKoe6BpX44MEMh9jwEzhpqZQLo_robg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOvcy8V-UUYKEi9QYKuB5p=Bd-rVVg1KH5DReZ91rwCHcA@mail.gmail.com>

OK, Dave, you were not born yesterday :-) As I have said, I never touched
the mailing list, and never had to. I contributed $500 for postage, the
rest was provided by the candidates. But if I *had* touched the mailing
list, what nefarious things would I have done with it? You are mostly all
listed on QRZ, etc. Am I the guy sending you those mails about how Ed
McMahon will hand you the million-dollar check from Publishers Clearing
House?

What I am getting at here is that people don't violate rules for really
stupid and unnecessary reasons. There was a simple way to send the letter
within the rules, and we did it.

Thanks

Bruce

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 12:55 PM David Swanson <dave at druidnetworks.com> wrote:

> My apologies on the Twitter claim - when I tried loading it from source
> nothing was displaying pre January 28th, 2020 - the day of your 'I am
> signing off of social networking' declaration. (How'd that go btw?) I only
> assumed you had deleted your tweets.
>
> As to your never ending story changing about the mailing list, I was born
> at night, but it wasn't last night. Go try your story on another mark.
>
> -Dave, KG5CCI
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 2:45 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>
>> David,
>>
>> My tweet was NOT deleted, and is still on twitter at
>> https://twitter.com/BrucePerens/status/1154844208458416128
>> As stated repeatedly, both by myself and Michelle, I did not handle the
>> mailing list, she did. Which was 100% her right as a candidate.
>>
>>     Thanks
>>
>>     Bruce
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 11:26 AM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>>> It's always fun to remind folks tripping over their own feat lying that
>>> the
>>> internet is forever. From a Bruce Perens Tweet on July 13, 2020:
>>>
>>> "Please see my letter on the web, or the paper copy I've mailed to
>>> everyone
>>> one of you".
>>>
>>> Of course the original tweet was deleted, but the wayback machine never
>>> forgets. Don't Believe me? http://druidnetworks.com/2020-07-13.png
>>>
>>> If you still think the membership list wasn't compromised, I just heard
>>> Director Thompson will be auctioning off their ocean front property in
>>> Arizona to all the members this year to raise funds for their microwave,
>>> digital only, strictly open source crowd funded, vegan, social justice
>>> aware cubesat launch to Proxima Centauri. Of course this launch will only
>>> come after 10 years of ground station development, but fueled with enough
>>> hopes, dreams and promises it will become a reality!
>>>
>>> For the rest of us who actually want to keep amateur radio in (real)
>>> space
>>> and are disgusted at the violations of privacy that occured by 3rd
>>> parties
>>> working to get Director Thompson and Director Stoddard elected, well, you
>>> should know what to do.
>>>
>>> -Dave, KG5CCI
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:24 AM Michelle Thompson <
>>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > No database went anywhere except to candidates. This is allowed in the
>>> > bylaws.
>>> >
>>> > Then, an automated bulk mail printing server was used. I recommended
>>> the
>>> > company to Brennan Price for this year's mailing. Good service,
>>> > inexpensive.
>>> >
>>> > Return addresses don't magically transfer information.
>>> >
>>> > -Michelle W5NYV
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 04:32 David Swanson <dave at druidnetworks.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Spin Spin Spin. The simple truth here is Director Thompson took the
>>> AMSAT
>>> >> member database, and handed it over to a 3rd party competing entity
>>> for the
>>> >> purpose of solicitation. I know I did not give ORI my home address,
>>> yet ORI
>>> >> sent me a letter. This was a violation of my privacy, and for AMSAT
>>> >> members living in the EU, this was a violation of the law. Any
>>> attempt to
>>> >> explain this away is just more lies and deceit from Director Thompson
>>> about
>>> >> the shady practices they have engaged in over the past few years. As
>>> I keep
>>> >> saying, this isn't a one time thing, this is a pattern of
>>> >> reprehensible behavior that is unbecoming of an elected position and
>>> this
>>> >> community. Director Thompson and Director Stoddard should resign.
>>> >>
>>> >> -Dave, KG5CCI
>>> >>
>>> >> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:33 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>>> >> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Yes, I can.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> That part of Clayton's letter is wrong and has been repeatedly
>>> clarified
>>> >>> before. Including at the 2019 annual board meeting, where Tom Clark
>>> asked
>>> >>> me about it, as part of the record.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Clayton Coleman was secretary in 2019.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> He ran the election.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> He decided that candidate statements were limited in length to 350
>>> words,
>>> >>> would be subject to editorial control by AMSAT, and could not include
>>> >>> links. These new rules were given to us right before the 4th of July
>>> >>> holiday with a deadline of the 7th.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> This is different than any election before, where statements went
>>> >>> directly
>>> >>> to the printer from the candidate, were not limited in length, and
>>> no one
>>> >>> from AMSAT leadership (who might be running for reelection
>>> themselves)
>>> >>> had
>>> >>> any control over the content of their challengers' statements.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> We got these rules right before ballots went out. We (four
>>> challengers)
>>> >>> already had normal-sized statements on the web and they had been up
>>> six
>>> >>> weeks at that point. Those were the ones we wanted to use, and link
>>> to.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> We knew that as candidates, we had the right to request the mailing
>>> list,
>>> >>> and send our own statements, independent of the ballot.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I requested the address list and got the DBASE4 export.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Bruce Perens had already written a letter of support and distributed
>>> it
>>> >>> widely on the web. It introduced us and included our four full bios
>>> and
>>> >>> statements.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I asked Bruce if we could use his letter in the mailing. He said yes.
>>> >>> Since
>>> >>> he was President of Open Research Institute at the time, he wanted
>>> the
>>> >>> return address to not be his private home address, but a business
>>> >>> address.
>>> >>> That was ORI's address. He was the author of the endorsement, so I
>>> used
>>> >>> his
>>> >>> preferred return address.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I converted the DBASE4 to a more useful format, fixed the 50 or so
>>> >>> undeliverable addresses, and found an inexpensive printer. Then I
>>> sent
>>> >>> the
>>> >>> letter from Bruce to the printer, with the bios and statements.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> That turned out to be a good thing. Bios and statements were not
>>> included
>>> >>> with the ballots mailed out, at all.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> If we had not sent the letter, then name recognition would be the
>>> primary
>>> >>> factor. We were running against well-known people.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> We complained about this. It was unusual departure from the past and
>>> >>> seemed
>>> >>> set up to let leadership benefit from being incumbents.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The original proposal from Clayton was for an electronic only ballot.
>>> >>> Patrick said that the bylaws were a bit clunky here and it did need
>>> to be
>>> >>> mailed out on paper. Paper was required.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> This is a big reason why I made a motion at our one  board meeting,
>>> in
>>> >>> March, for a bylaws committee.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> This bylaw isn't hard to fix. There's lots of examples out there of
>>> >>> organizations doing electronic voting with working published bylaws.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Bruce made it very clear, when the incumbents stirred up the pot
>>> about
>>> >>> the
>>> >>> return address, that it was an endorsement from him, this was
>>> commonly
>>> >>> done
>>> >>> in political campaigns, and it would be grossly improper for me to
>>> use
>>> >>> AMSATs return address because that would make it look like Bruce was
>>> >>> speaking for or was from AMSAT. That was not going to happen. *That*
>>> >>> would
>>> >>> be improper.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> No one candidate wanted their personal address used as a return
>>> address.
>>> >>> We
>>> >>> were mailing this as a slate and splitting the cost. We didn't have
>>> time
>>> >>> or
>>> >>> funds to make an organization or rent a box for one letter on short
>>> >>> notice.
>>> >>> The printer required a real return address.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> No one had the address list except the candidates. Namely me because
>>> I
>>> >>> contracted the printer and handled the DBASE4 address conversion.
>>> That
>>> >>> is a
>>> >>> neat story in and of itself,, for another time.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Bruce only sent the text to me and chipped in some money for postage.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The printing was automated in Van Nuys, CA.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> All of this is known to Clayton Coleman and his friends on the board
>>> that
>>> >>> signed the statement from this week. It has been explained by Bruce
>>> >>> publicly, and by me several times on social media. Tom Clark brought
>>> it
>>> >>> up
>>> >>> at the 2019 annual board meeting because of the return address
>>> >>> pot-stirring. I explained it there too. Like I said, it's on the
>>> record.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I think insinuating the addresses were mishandled is a deliberate
>>> >>> twisting
>>> >>> of honest efforts to scramble to get uncensored candidate statements
>>> out
>>> >>> to
>>> >>> voters on short notice. We just didn't have a lot of time, and Bruce
>>> was
>>> >>> very generous in writing a cover letter.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Again, candidates are allowed the use of the mailing lists for
>>> election
>>> >>> purposes.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> So, no, there was no breach. Clayton knows all this.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Saying it the way he did is a cheap shot at me, Patrick, Bruce
>>> Perens,
>>> >>> and
>>> >>> ORI.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>  -Michelle W5NYV
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 19:11 Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> >   Hello All,
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter
>>> we all
>>> >>> > received as members.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>>
>>> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed
>>> >>> before.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses
>>> to
>>> >>> > Open Research Institute."
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a
>>> >>> serious
>>> >>> > breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information
>>> lost?
>>> >>> > was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they
>>> say
>>> >>> > "out in the wind"?
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack
>>> how
>>> >>> > ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it
>>> something
>>> >>> > that was procured online?
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back
>>> what it
>>> >>> > found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening
>>> in
>>> >>> > the future.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > I look forward to an answer
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>>> >>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>> available
>>> >>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> >>> Opinions
>>> >>> > expressed
>>> >>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>> views
>>> >>> of
>>> >>> > AMSAT-NA.
>>> >>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> >>> program!
>>> >>> > Subscription settings:
>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>> available
>>> >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> >>> Opinions expressed
>>> >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>> views of
>>> >>> AMSAT-NA.
>>> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> >>> program!
>>> >>> Subscription settings:
>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
>> eventually :-)
>>
>

From af5at.radio at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 20:42:45 2020
From: af5at.radio at gmail.com (Mike Wilhelm)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 15:42:45 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 242
In-Reply-To: <146ygmPgl1984Set.1594652857@web07.cms.usa.net>
References: <146ygmPgl1984Set.1594652857@web07.cms.usa.net>
Message-ID: <CABQUVrUbUPsQHHj2kASDr=k93Rm9efTkw4z8+jgs=w9opp97oQ@mail.gmail.com>

I joined this BB to learn more about satellites.  I have learned that if a
person makes a mistake, everyone  piles on him and complains.  I have never
attempted to get on a bird for that reason.

Mike AF5AT

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 3:15 PM Daniel Schultz via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Dear Gailen,
>
> In filing your two line gripe about the "structural squabbling" displacing
> the
> normal discussion of the "birds" on amsat-bb, you forwarded all 913 lines
> of
> the entire AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 242, back to the group. If you
> are
> going to complain about the signal to noise ratio, at least take the time
> to
> edit your reply before hitting send. If you can't do that from your iPhone,
> then wait until you get home and send your reply from a real computer.
>
> No we are not going to create yet another mailing list. If you don't like
> it
> then hit Delete and go on to the next message about the "birds".
>
> Dan Schultz N8FGV
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> >Received: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 15:50:47 -0500
> >From: Gailen Marshall <gdm2md at gmail.com>
> >To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> >Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 233
> >Message-ID: <92CBBC69-47D9-46E3-A39C-4B8DBD8482F5 at gmail.com>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >
> >Yes! Can we stick to the birds and let those interested in structural
> squabbling
> >have their own venue? Gailen N5GDM
> >
> >Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From framirezferrer at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 20:44:37 2020
From: framirezferrer at gmail.com (Fernando Ramirez)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 13:44:37 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA, another perspective
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2UH-qLpGcvoWGwa7+J1Zm3wx19yGLJRpD5JbMG70pomjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJgz9AY+ee-htyrHzRhrGbkW+bNkwkxrAF+KFR5bOnrCKiWDzA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2UH-qLpGcvoWGwa7+J1Zm3wx19yGLJRpD5JbMG70pomjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGHXx8jSc163RrzKd7vCdu0Q4Co-P9ifB=428u-fuRbxECV8aw@mail.gmail.com>

I wonder why Joe Spier didn't sign AMSAT's statement as a Past President
and the one who authorized some of those legal expenses...

Fernando Ram?rez
KF7R

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 1:31 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> We were denied access to corporate records and communications from the
> first day of our terms.
>
> We commissioned a formal legal demand letter and sent it to
> AMSAT's secretly hired law firm.
>
> Two days later, Joe Spier resigned.
>
> Clayton Coleman was (duly) elected in a short emergency meeting.
>
> Clayton Coleman restored access to communications, and some additional
> records were available. He called the first (and only) regular board
> meeting of the year, and we heard some reports, made some motions, and
> kicked off some plans. This was nearly 5 months into our term.
>
> The biggest step forward at this meeting was Clayton agreed to end the
> business relationship with the secretly hired law firm. That spigot was
> off.
>
> Things actually looked like they were improving.
>
> No followup since then. No regular meetings since then. No resolution on
> who actually signed the checks. Could we recover the money?
>
> When the rest of the board finally angrily revealed they really did know
> all about the secretly hired law firm all along, and it was ok with them
> that the lawyers were used specifically to make our lives harder, and when
> some of them decided to run for another term, we decided to speak up.
> That's all we can do.
>
> If members want another year of zero board meetings because the incumbents
> really hate Patrick and Michelle asking inconvenient questions about
> unauthorized expenses, then members will return the same people to the
> board.
>
> Every month, Patrick and I will still be going through the financials
> carefully and asking questions. That's an essential part of the job.
>
> If members want a functional board that publishes minutes and can show
> progress, collaboration, and decision-making, then please vote for people
> that will help do that: Robert McGwier, Howie DeFelice, and Jeff Johns.
>
> Thank you for the opportunity to answer.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 10:06 AM Russ Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > I have been a member on/off since 2012. I have never been removed from
> this
> > AMSAT mailing list, but have not always been able to log into the
> AMSAT.org
> > web site. In spite of this, I have renewed my membership, typically at
> > Hamvention (until this year, but did so online), and made extra purchases
> > to support the work of AMSAT.
> >
> > I definitely echo the message of Hans BX2ABT. Not everyone is bad, but
> > unfortunately too many are not good either.
> >
> > When reading over each point of view of this ongoing dispute, it is not
> > very clear what started this dispute. In a statement in response to
> > allegations of financial mismanagement, Clayton wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *AMSAT's corporate records give a full accounting of all expendituresand
> > are provided to its Directors upon request, in compliance with
> ourgoverning
> > documents and law of the District of Columbia (D.C.) Ouroffice remains
> > closed due to COVID-19, where those documents reside.Furthermore, AMSAT
> > complies with IRS rules for 501(c)(3) disclosure ofpublic financial
> > documents, such as the Form 990 available on theAMSAT website  *
> >
> > The above statement is either wholly true, or gray, because making a
> > statement like this which is completely false would be illegal.
> >
> > Michelle, you have claimed that you (and Patrick) were denied access to
> > financial transaction records upon your written request. Can we simply
> > focus on *what* specifically started this whole thing?
> >
> > Russ Ramirez
> > K0WFS
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From wa7fwf at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 20:48:50 2020
From: wa7fwf at gmail.com (Kevin)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 13:48:50 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Gravitas
In-Reply-To: <CAHxrdOTuVzMxEGpCNHE5Y37RzMxs9hDOhfGJnARUDC=61m8OhA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHxrdOTuVzMxEGpCNHE5Y37RzMxs9hDOhfGJnARUDC=61m8OhA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <966500ed-3dca-da30-4cfa-f520aefdf8fb@gmail.com>

Might want to try again, works fine here right now.

https://launch.amsat.org/Join

Kevin wa7fwf 19623

On 7/13/2020 8:17 AM, Robert Ehresman via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> I'd like to point out that the "Join AMSAT" page is currently giving out
> Error 404.
>
> PAGE NOT FOUND (ERROR 404)
> Sorry, but the page you are trying to access either does not exist or is
> not available.
>
>
> Home <https://launch.amsat.org/>     Back     Sitemap
> <https://launch.amsat.org/Sitemap>
>
>> I invite you to turn your angst, whatever it >might be, into action by
> joining AMSAT >and have a vote in the matter. Otherwise, >you?re just
> ranting with into the wind for >no reason other than to hear your own
>> voice?
>> https://www.amsat.org/join-amsat/
>> <https://www.amsat.org/join-amsat/>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From k8bl at ameritech.net  Mon Jul 13 20:50:40 2020
From: k8bl at ameritech.net (Bob Liddy (K8BL))
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 20:50:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <4c89ff8a749b097c9a39b2d48aa79ed5@etczone.com>
References: <mailman.6647.1594644904.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<1984320037.797478.1594652358770@myemail.cox.net>
	<4c89ff8a749b097c9a39b2d48aa79ed5@etczone.com>
Message-ID: <441122474.1064586.1594673440635@mail.yahoo.com>

 AMSAT Membership,
OK....? I'm saturated!!!
AMSAT-BB is going to SPAM from this point on. My Mailbox has become?filled with non-stop posts about whatever this nightmare actually is and whatcountless people are opining about it. I can't take any more and several folksthat are long-time Members have told me the same. At this point, I don't carehow it ends as long as it ends. I'll check back in a couple weeks.
73 & CUL,? ? Bob? K8BL? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?(AMSAT #6593, Since 1979)
   

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From johnbrier at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 21:08:07 2020
From: johnbrier at gmail.com (John Brier)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 17:08:07 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] children
In-Reply-To: <1478679106.53611.1594663797984@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <1712165007.494111.1594583328598.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1712165007.494111.1594583328598@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CADkz4c8eeEfCHORcgar3C3AXxGaTuJkLWb3yMkT3FHcpv1ENWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CH2PR12MB38930FA8A6FAEA2AAABBA3BDA9600@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAPOM0dm1zQwE6puntpn8=gsO3rvWsurEq8XodVvkHsQH2=9WGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E7E93051-9A38-41FC-AAA8-ACD745F8670C@comcast.net>
	<1237381593.52917.1594657886386@connect.xfinity.com>
	<1478679106.53611.1594663797984@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <CALn0fKPpLD9kQQejxCy5mmGNJS+4VsFB98waya7T1fC_LyJJvg@mail.gmail.com>

Your message already went through. Do you know if you send a message
to the list it is not reflected back to you? To verify it was sent,
just check the archives:

full archive index:
https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/

July:
https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2020-July/thread.html

Your original message:
https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2020-July/078402.html

your repeated message:
https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2020-July/078410.html

73, John Brier KG4AKV

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:04 PM 73 Bob W7LRD via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>
>  When my children were very young they would very occasionally get into fights and conflicts.  I would put them both into a small room in the house and tell them, "you're not coming out until you can get along.
> > 73 Bob W7LRD
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From wa7fwf at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 21:21:36 2020
From: wa7fwf at gmail.com (Kevin)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 14:21:36 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <60901734-65cf-6ad0-c405-1d82f7e31c6e@gmail.com>
References: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOs5TwZuN=-A_Rb39LAONtQHzX3i36efp-_RVeCdGyFnUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6971fd85-2135-85a0-3ade-3c7a36352d47@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOskn_hhT4MpdhwQ2-nz7P44u+SUVuYvr-PYd7P8k3-ARw@mail.gmail.com>
	<34b9e74a-7626-8ae0-a371-c3675f951b7c@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOu-sb=r3bn14TwkT37m_LVhhj+rGrMHM90O0O_nQkjYuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<60901734-65cf-6ad0-c405-1d82f7e31c6e@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <791b7398-6eb2-2715-d8d5-13b478a63026@gmail.com>


OK,? one of these two statements is a lie, which one is it?


> On 7/12/2020 9:48 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
>> Kevin,
>>
>> No, I never saw the mailing list .*I didn't do the mailing* . I only 
>> wrote the content .
>>
>>
>>
>> Bruce K6BP
>>
>>

"Please see my letter on the web, or the paper copy*I've mailed*  to everyone
one of you".


http://druidnetworks.com/2020-07-13.png


 ?And I agree this is getting old and needs to be pulled off here and? 
moved over to AMSAT to get to the bottom of this and take action.


Kevin WA7FWF 19623







From amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net  Mon Jul 13 21:30:48 2020
From: amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net (Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK))
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 21:30:48 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Still one part missing.... (skip if you don't want
 to read about the BoD concerns)
In-Reply-To: <CADGPg2v_LeUKbpfmKqvgc3xh1L+=or8SYRDHepmZcWXZ0yw3BA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADGPg2v_LeUKbpfmKqvgc3xh1L+=or8SYRDHepmZcWXZ0yw3BA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN6TEUeTq7eP8pTDim-pxD4t6zC2jLAWQhsV3CeAxCJa-mKwOQ@mail.gmail.com>

Roy,

You are correct about my lack of a connection with Open Research
Institute. I have nothing to do with ORI. My full candidate's
statement for last year's Board of Directors election was included in
the mailing Michelle prepared. I helped cover the costs of that
mailing, which was done in full compliance with the AMSAT bylaws.

Michelle and I were initially told by Joe Spier in late September 2019
we needed to sign a non-disclosure agreement before we could gain
access to AMSAT records like the archives of the Board's private
mailing list. Then it became something different... we had to sign an
acknowledgement for the NDAs AMSAT had with different organizations. We
were not provided copies of these NDAs initially, but told we would
have to sign an acknowledgement of those NDAs during the Board meeting
at last year's Symposium. This acknowledgement had nothing to do with
accessing AMSAT records or the mailing list archives. Michelle and I
wanted to see these NDAs before the meeting, so we could have adequate
time to review them. We received copies of the AMSAT NDAs. Michelle and
I, along with the rest of the Board and the senior officers, signed an
acknowledgement of those NDAs during the Board meeting.

After the Symposium, things changed again. In a phone call with Joe
Spier and a lawyer from Hurwit & Associates, both Joe and the lawyer
were discussing a proposed "conflict of interest" policy that would
prevent Michelle and me from ever seeing any AMSAT records related to
anything before we joined the Board. I previously wrote about here on
the -BB and on my http://amsat.wd9ewk.net/ web page. When this was
brought to the attention of the rest of the Board and senior officers,
nobody spoke up. After seeing Clayton's letter, it is crystal clear
why that was.

It took Michelle and me seeking our own legal advice, followed by the
demand letter sent to AMSAT in late January, to end the roadblock that
started on day 1 of our terms as directors. After Joe Spier's quick
resignation, Clayton and AMSAT's lawyer both said we would have access
to records - almost 5 months after our terms started. Five months where
AMSAT was not in compliance with District of Columbia corporate law.
Michelle and I welcome an opportunity to discuss a wide range of issues
concerning AMSAT with the rest of the Board of Directors in a meeting.
As of now, it appears to me that neither the other directors nor
Clayton are willing to join us in calling for a Board meeting.

Seeing what we went through last fall with those NDAs, I would expect
that any new directors or senior officers should be provided copies of
AMSAT's NDAs, along with an acknowledgement form like we signed last
year. This should be part of the process of welcoming new directors or
senior officers. There was no process I could see when Michelle and I
joined the Board last year, even though there is a brief mention of a
process in the AMSAT bylaws for outgoing and incoming directors. I saw
much more organization when I joined the Board as an alternate back in
2011.

73.





Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK



On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 8:54 PM Roy Dean via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> [Legal Disclaimer:   None of the below should be construed as fact.  I am
> only trying to confirm what I know in order to make an informed decision
> when it comes time to vote.  Please feel free to correct any assumptions or
> conclusions I may have reached below]
>
> I understand both of Directors Stoddard's and Thompson's concerns about the
> validity of certain spending on legal advice.
> I understand both of Directors Stoddard's and Thompson's concerns about the
> withholding of corporate documents until a legal demand letter was
> presented.
> I understand the concerns of many of the board and executives about a
> conflict of interest with Director Thomson's involvement with ORI.
> I understand the concerns of many of the board and executives regarding
> harassment policies.
> I understand the concerns of some of the members about the potential misuse
> of the membership mailing list by an alleged "agent" of Director Thompson
> (and/or ORI), as well as understanding the reasoning Director Thompson put
> forward for the ORI return address on mailing in question.
>
> One thing I do not understand is why any of this does (or did) affect
> Director Stoddard?   Why was corporate documentation withheld from him?
>  From what I can tell, he has no relation to ORI.   Is it because his
> candidate statement was included with the ORI mailing (I don't even know if
> it was, I cannot remember and didn't save my mailing)?   Was it because he
> hesitated (or refused) to sign the new NDA?   Or did he sign the new NDA?
>   Were all other BoD members asked to sign the NDA prior to being given
> access to the corporate documents that were alleged to be withheld from
> Dirs. Stoddard and Thompson?   Is that NDA now SOP for all new Directors
> and Executives?
>
> <snip> <https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb>
>

From wageners at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 21:32:57 2020
From: wageners at gmail.com (Stefan Wagener)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 16:32:57 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Mr David Swanson.....
In-Reply-To: <CANq+eyXFLpC9t8jMG-8+x6TxQSTYFeKQ0s=_8j-g=LV98P4+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2U2fCYU4r8fLYE49HG80VHCRh9_LyW-5QQ5JP-cdNkUsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyWHQ8o369h6=fqi1PJLWuMGP-1dTVj5Oej2CstAPY8S-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2U4M0XDpWM9L9-fr27vxJ6FaT8iGJHvf98U39SX4Zk7=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyXFLpC9t8jMG-8+x6TxQSTYFeKQ0s=_8j-g=LV98P4+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKu8kHBhENrBeyxpdkXm2RWiCzrx=ActnmTWXy_+FiG2iEzWsQ@mail.gmail.com>

Mr David Swanson,

Your vicious, sarcastic, and personal attacks against a duly elected board
member and more importantly another human being are totally uncalled
for and a total embarrassment to yourself.

STOP IT!

Stefan VE4SW





On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 2:28 PM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> It's always fun to remind folks tripping over their own feat lying that the
> internet is forever. From a Bruce Perens Tweet on July 13, 2020:
>
> "Please see my letter on the web, or the paper copy I've mailed to everyone
> one of you".
>
> Of course the original tweet was deleted, but the wayback machine never
> forgets. Don't Believe me? http://druidnetworks.com/2020-07-13.png
>
> If you still think the membership list wasn't compromised, I just heard
> Director Thompson will be auctioning off their ocean front property in
> Arizona to all the members this year to raise funds for their microwave,
> digital only, strictly open source crowd funded, vegan, social justice
> aware cubesat launch to Proxima Centauri. Of course this launch will only
> come after 10 years of ground station development, but fueled with enough
> hopes, dreams and promises it will become a reality!
>
> For the rest of us who actually want to keep amateur radio in (real) space
> and are disgusted at the violations of privacy that occured by 3rd parties
> working to get Director Thompson and Director Stoddard elected, well, you
> should know what to do.
>
> -Dave, KG5CCI
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:24 AM Michelle Thompson <
> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > No database went anywhere except to candidates. This is allowed in the
> > bylaws.
> >
> > Then, an automated bulk mail printing server was used. I recommended the
> > company to Brennan Price for this year's mailing. Good service,
> > inexpensive.
> >
> > Return addresses don't magically transfer information.
> >
> > -Michelle W5NYV
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 04:32 David Swanson <dave at druidnetworks.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Spin Spin Spin. The simple truth here is Director Thompson took the
> AMSAT
> >> member database, and handed it over to a 3rd party competing entity for
> the
> >> purpose of solicitation. I know I did not give ORI my home address, yet
> ORI
> >> sent me a letter. This was a violation of my privacy, and for AMSAT
> >> members living in the EU, this was a violation of the law. Any attempt
> to
> >> explain this away is just more lies and deceit from Director Thompson
> about
> >> the shady practices they have engaged in over the past few years. As I
> keep
> >> saying, this isn't a one time thing, this is a pattern of
> >> reprehensible behavior that is unbecoming of an elected position and
> this
> >> community. Director Thompson and Director Stoddard should resign.
> >>
> >> -Dave, KG5CCI
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:33 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
> >> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Yes, I can.
> >>>
> >>> That part of Clayton's letter is wrong and has been repeatedly
> clarified
> >>> before. Including at the 2019 annual board meeting, where Tom Clark
> asked
> >>> me about it, as part of the record.
> >>>
> >>> Clayton Coleman was secretary in 2019.
> >>>
> >>> He ran the election.
> >>>
> >>> He decided that candidate statements were limited in length to 350
> words,
> >>> would be subject to editorial control by AMSAT, and could not include
> >>> links. These new rules were given to us right before the 4th of July
> >>> holiday with a deadline of the 7th.
> >>>
> >>> This is different than any election before, where statements went
> >>> directly
> >>> to the printer from the candidate, were not limited in length, and no
> one
> >>> from AMSAT leadership (who might be running for reelection themselves)
> >>> had
> >>> any control over the content of their challengers' statements.
> >>>
> >>> We got these rules right before ballots went out. We (four challengers)
> >>> already had normal-sized statements on the web and they had been up six
> >>> weeks at that point. Those were the ones we wanted to use, and link to.
> >>>
> >>> We knew that as candidates, we had the right to request the mailing
> list,
> >>> and send our own statements, independent of the ballot.
> >>>
> >>> I requested the address list and got the DBASE4 export.
> >>>
> >>> Bruce Perens had already written a letter of support and distributed it
> >>> widely on the web. It introduced us and included our four full bios and
> >>> statements.
> >>>
> >>> I asked Bruce if we could use his letter in the mailing. He said yes.
> >>> Since
> >>> he was President of Open Research Institute at the time, he wanted the
> >>> return address to not be his private home address, but a business
> >>> address.
> >>> That was ORI's address. He was the author of the endorsement, so I used
> >>> his
> >>> preferred return address.
> >>>
> >>> I converted the DBASE4 to a more useful format, fixed the 50 or so
> >>> undeliverable addresses, and found an inexpensive printer. Then I sent
> >>> the
> >>> letter from Bruce to the printer, with the bios and statements.
> >>>
> >>> That turned out to be a good thing. Bios and statements were not
> included
> >>> with the ballots mailed out, at all.
> >>>
> >>> If we had not sent the letter, then name recognition would be the
> primary
> >>> factor. We were running against well-known people.
> >>>
> >>> We complained about this. It was unusual departure from the past and
> >>> seemed
> >>> set up to let leadership benefit from being incumbents.
> >>>
> >>> The original proposal from Clayton was for an electronic only ballot.
> >>> Patrick said that the bylaws were a bit clunky here and it did need to
> be
> >>> mailed out on paper. Paper was required.
> >>>
> >>> This is a big reason why I made a motion at our one  board meeting, in
> >>> March, for a bylaws committee.
> >>>
> >>> This bylaw isn't hard to fix. There's lots of examples out there of
> >>> organizations doing electronic voting with working published bylaws.
> >>>
> >>> Bruce made it very clear, when the incumbents stirred up the pot about
> >>> the
> >>> return address, that it was an endorsement from him, this was commonly
> >>> done
> >>> in political campaigns, and it would be grossly improper for me to use
> >>> AMSATs return address because that would make it look like Bruce was
> >>> speaking for or was from AMSAT. That was not going to happen. *That*
> >>> would
> >>> be improper.
> >>>
> >>> No one candidate wanted their personal address used as a return
> address.
> >>> We
> >>> were mailing this as a slate and splitting the cost. We didn't have
> time
> >>> or
> >>> funds to make an organization or rent a box for one letter on short
> >>> notice.
> >>> The printer required a real return address.
> >>>
> >>> No one had the address list except the candidates. Namely me because I
> >>> contracted the printer and handled the DBASE4 address conversion. That
> >>> is a
> >>> neat story in and of itself,, for another time.
> >>>
> >>> Bruce only sent the text to me and chipped in some money for postage.
> >>>
> >>> The printing was automated in Van Nuys, CA.
> >>>
> >>> All of this is known to Clayton Coleman and his friends on the board
> that
> >>> signed the statement from this week. It has been explained by Bruce
> >>> publicly, and by me several times on social media. Tom Clark brought it
> >>> up
> >>> at the 2019 annual board meeting because of the return address
> >>> pot-stirring. I explained it there too. Like I said, it's on the
> record.
> >>>
> >>> I think insinuating the addresses were mishandled is a deliberate
> >>> twisting
> >>> of honest efforts to scramble to get uncensored candidate statements
> out
> >>> to
> >>> voters on short notice. We just didn't have a lot of time, and Bruce
> was
> >>> very generous in writing a cover letter.
> >>>
> >>> Again, candidates are allowed the use of the mailing lists for election
> >>> purposes.
> >>>
> >>> So, no, there was no breach. Clayton knows all this.
> >>>
> >>> Saying it the way he did is a cheap shot at me, Patrick, Bruce Perens,
> >>> and
> >>> ORI.
> >>>
> >>>  -Michelle W5NYV
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 19:11 Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >   Hello All,
> >>> >
> >>> >    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we
> all
> >>> > received as members.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
> >>> >
> >>> > I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed
> >>> before.
> >>> >
> >>> > "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to
> >>> > Open Research Institute."
> >>> >
> >>> >     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a
> >>> serious
> >>> > breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?
> >>> > was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they
> say
> >>> > "out in the wind"?
> >>> >
> >>> > Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how
> >>> > ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something
> >>> > that was procured online?
> >>> >
> >>> > AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what
> it
> >>> > found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in
> >>> > the future.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > I look forward to an answer
> >>> >
> >>> > 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> >>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >>> Opinions
> >>> > expressed
> >>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> >>> of
> >>> > AMSAT-NA.
> >>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >>> program!
> >>> > Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>> >
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >>> Opinions expressed
> >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> >>> AMSAT-NA.
> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >>> program!
> >>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>>
> >>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From dave at druidnetworks.com  Mon Jul 13 21:52:55 2020
From: dave at druidnetworks.com (David Swanson)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 16:52:55 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Mr David Swanson.....
In-Reply-To: <CAKu8kHBhENrBeyxpdkXm2RWiCzrx=ActnmTWXy_+FiG2iEzWsQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2U2fCYU4r8fLYE49HG80VHCRh9_LyW-5QQ5JP-cdNkUsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyWHQ8o369h6=fqi1PJLWuMGP-1dTVj5Oej2CstAPY8S-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2U4M0XDpWM9L9-fr27vxJ6FaT8iGJHvf98U39SX4Zk7=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyXFLpC9t8jMG-8+x6TxQSTYFeKQ0s=_8j-g=LV98P4+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKu8kHBhENrBeyxpdkXm2RWiCzrx=ActnmTWXy_+FiG2iEzWsQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANq+eyXeiJ-rmrir70pHbuFVwfm=ycoOXLBK3tuu7Zz05a3URA@mail.gmail.com>

Mr Wagener,

People have threatened my friends and members of my community with legal
action, they defamed them, and impugned their integrity. They seek to
destroy a hobby I care a great deal about. The fact that you don't see
what's going on is the embarrassment, not the words I use.

In short, you can go to hell.

-Dave, KG5CCI

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 4:33 PM Stefan Wagener <wageners at gmail.com> wrote:

> Mr David Swanson,
>
> Your vicious, sarcastic, and personal attacks against a duly elected board
> member and more importantly another human being are totally uncalled
> for and a total embarrassment to yourself.
>
> STOP IT!
>
> Stefan VE4SW
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 2:28 PM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> It's always fun to remind folks tripping over their own feat lying that
>> the
>> internet is forever. From a Bruce Perens Tweet on July 13, 2020:
>>
>> "Please see my letter on the web, or the paper copy I've mailed to
>> everyone
>> one of you".
>>
>> Of course the original tweet was deleted, but the wayback machine never
>> forgets. Don't Believe me? http://druidnetworks.com/2020-07-13.png
>>
>> If you still think the membership list wasn't compromised, I just heard
>> Director Thompson will be auctioning off their ocean front property in
>> Arizona to all the members this year to raise funds for their microwave,
>> digital only, strictly open source crowd funded, vegan, social justice
>> aware cubesat launch to Proxima Centauri. Of course this launch will only
>> come after 10 years of ground station development, but fueled with enough
>> hopes, dreams and promises it will become a reality!
>>
>> For the rest of us who actually want to keep amateur radio in (real) space
>> and are disgusted at the violations of privacy that occured by 3rd parties
>> working to get Director Thompson and Director Stoddard elected, well, you
>> should know what to do.
>>
>> -Dave, KG5CCI
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:24 AM Michelle Thompson <
>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > No database went anywhere except to candidates. This is allowed in the
>> > bylaws.
>> >
>> > Then, an automated bulk mail printing server was used. I recommended the
>> > company to Brennan Price for this year's mailing. Good service,
>> > inexpensive.
>> >
>> > Return addresses don't magically transfer information.
>> >
>> > -Michelle W5NYV
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 04:32 David Swanson <dave at druidnetworks.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Spin Spin Spin. The simple truth here is Director Thompson took the
>> AMSAT
>> >> member database, and handed it over to a 3rd party competing entity
>> for the
>> >> purpose of solicitation. I know I did not give ORI my home address,
>> yet ORI
>> >> sent me a letter. This was a violation of my privacy, and for AMSAT
>> >> members living in the EU, this was a violation of the law. Any attempt
>> to
>> >> explain this away is just more lies and deceit from Director Thompson
>> about
>> >> the shady practices they have engaged in over the past few years. As I
>> keep
>> >> saying, this isn't a one time thing, this is a pattern of
>> >> reprehensible behavior that is unbecoming of an elected position and
>> this
>> >> community. Director Thompson and Director Stoddard should resign.
>> >>
>> >> -Dave, KG5CCI
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:33 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>> >> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Yes, I can.
>> >>>
>> >>> That part of Clayton's letter is wrong and has been repeatedly
>> clarified
>> >>> before. Including at the 2019 annual board meeting, where Tom Clark
>> asked
>> >>> me about it, as part of the record.
>> >>>
>> >>> Clayton Coleman was secretary in 2019.
>> >>>
>> >>> He ran the election.
>> >>>
>> >>> He decided that candidate statements were limited in length to 350
>> words,
>> >>> would be subject to editorial control by AMSAT, and could not include
>> >>> links. These new rules were given to us right before the 4th of July
>> >>> holiday with a deadline of the 7th.
>> >>>
>> >>> This is different than any election before, where statements went
>> >>> directly
>> >>> to the printer from the candidate, were not limited in length, and no
>> one
>> >>> from AMSAT leadership (who might be running for reelection themselves)
>> >>> had
>> >>> any control over the content of their challengers' statements.
>> >>>
>> >>> We got these rules right before ballots went out. We (four
>> challengers)
>> >>> already had normal-sized statements on the web and they had been up
>> six
>> >>> weeks at that point. Those were the ones we wanted to use, and link
>> to.
>> >>>
>> >>> We knew that as candidates, we had the right to request the mailing
>> list,
>> >>> and send our own statements, independent of the ballot.
>> >>>
>> >>> I requested the address list and got the DBASE4 export.
>> >>>
>> >>> Bruce Perens had already written a letter of support and distributed
>> it
>> >>> widely on the web. It introduced us and included our four full bios
>> and
>> >>> statements.
>> >>>
>> >>> I asked Bruce if we could use his letter in the mailing. He said yes.
>> >>> Since
>> >>> he was President of Open Research Institute at the time, he wanted the
>> >>> return address to not be his private home address, but a business
>> >>> address.
>> >>> That was ORI's address. He was the author of the endorsement, so I
>> used
>> >>> his
>> >>> preferred return address.
>> >>>
>> >>> I converted the DBASE4 to a more useful format, fixed the 50 or so
>> >>> undeliverable addresses, and found an inexpensive printer. Then I sent
>> >>> the
>> >>> letter from Bruce to the printer, with the bios and statements.
>> >>>
>> >>> That turned out to be a good thing. Bios and statements were not
>> included
>> >>> with the ballots mailed out, at all.
>> >>>
>> >>> If we had not sent the letter, then name recognition would be the
>> primary
>> >>> factor. We were running against well-known people.
>> >>>
>> >>> We complained about this. It was unusual departure from the past and
>> >>> seemed
>> >>> set up to let leadership benefit from being incumbents.
>> >>>
>> >>> The original proposal from Clayton was for an electronic only ballot.
>> >>> Patrick said that the bylaws were a bit clunky here and it did need
>> to be
>> >>> mailed out on paper. Paper was required.
>> >>>
>> >>> This is a big reason why I made a motion at our one  board meeting, in
>> >>> March, for a bylaws committee.
>> >>>
>> >>> This bylaw isn't hard to fix. There's lots of examples out there of
>> >>> organizations doing electronic voting with working published bylaws.
>> >>>
>> >>> Bruce made it very clear, when the incumbents stirred up the pot about
>> >>> the
>> >>> return address, that it was an endorsement from him, this was commonly
>> >>> done
>> >>> in political campaigns, and it would be grossly improper for me to use
>> >>> AMSATs return address because that would make it look like Bruce was
>> >>> speaking for or was from AMSAT. That was not going to happen. *That*
>> >>> would
>> >>> be improper.
>> >>>
>> >>> No one candidate wanted their personal address used as a return
>> address.
>> >>> We
>> >>> were mailing this as a slate and splitting the cost. We didn't have
>> time
>> >>> or
>> >>> funds to make an organization or rent a box for one letter on short
>> >>> notice.
>> >>> The printer required a real return address.
>> >>>
>> >>> No one had the address list except the candidates. Namely me because I
>> >>> contracted the printer and handled the DBASE4 address conversion. That
>> >>> is a
>> >>> neat story in and of itself,, for another time.
>> >>>
>> >>> Bruce only sent the text to me and chipped in some money for postage.
>> >>>
>> >>> The printing was automated in Van Nuys, CA.
>> >>>
>> >>> All of this is known to Clayton Coleman and his friends on the board
>> that
>> >>> signed the statement from this week. It has been explained by Bruce
>> >>> publicly, and by me several times on social media. Tom Clark brought
>> it
>> >>> up
>> >>> at the 2019 annual board meeting because of the return address
>> >>> pot-stirring. I explained it there too. Like I said, it's on the
>> record.
>> >>>
>> >>> I think insinuating the addresses were mishandled is a deliberate
>> >>> twisting
>> >>> of honest efforts to scramble to get uncensored candidate statements
>> out
>> >>> to
>> >>> voters on short notice. We just didn't have a lot of time, and Bruce
>> was
>> >>> very generous in writing a cover letter.
>> >>>
>> >>> Again, candidates are allowed the use of the mailing lists for
>> election
>> >>> purposes.
>> >>>
>> >>> So, no, there was no breach. Clayton knows all this.
>> >>>
>> >>> Saying it the way he did is a cheap shot at me, Patrick, Bruce Perens,
>> >>> and
>> >>> ORI.
>> >>>
>> >>>  -Michelle W5NYV
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 19:11 Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> >   Hello All,
>> >>> >
>> >>> >    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we
>> all
>> >>> > received as members.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed
>> >>> before.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to
>> >>> > Open Research Institute."
>> >>> >
>> >>> >     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a
>> >>> serious
>> >>> > breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?
>> >>> > was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they
>> say
>> >>> > "out in the wind"?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack
>> how
>> >>> > ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something
>> >>> > that was procured online?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what
>> it
>> >>> > found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening
>> in
>> >>> > the future.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I look forward to an answer
>> >>> >
>> >>> > 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>> available
>> >>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> >>> Opinions
>> >>> > expressed
>> >>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>> views
>> >>> of
>> >>> > AMSAT-NA.
>> >>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> >>> program!
>> >>> > Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >>> >
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> >>> Opinions expressed
>> >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of
>> >>> AMSAT-NA.
>> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> >>> program!
>> >>> Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >>>
>> >>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 21:58:03 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 14:58:03 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Brief summary of the "unauthorized expenses" claim
In-Reply-To: <1fdeda8fb65dcf349de22015c4600119@etczone.com>
References: <CANsNeaoAOL8BRBS8efmhNVC8-vQ3cWb3+uF2X1pkpe05=t2jFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1fdeda8fb65dcf349de22015c4600119@etczone.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2UBgkg0xja-y8ea4FtmOjkJfcESB47f-xmr0kgAkvcaQQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yes. That's the problem.

Some AMSAT board members claim the expenses are authorized. They wrote a 3
page letter about it to AMSAT-BB.

Neither a record of approval, nor a delegation of these expenses, ever
appear in the minutes. *Unlike the hiring of FD Associates, which was
legit, and appears in the minutes*

Even if we were objecting to boring expenses, instead of spicy personalized
vendetta advice having nothing to do with keeping amateur radio in space,
then they'd still be in the wrong.

This could have been resolved in less than a half hour.

The rest of the board denied it for most of a year, hid it almost the whole
time, and now are defending it to the death.

Please, send us people that we can work with, will agree to have meetings,
and will fix this sort of thing.

Those of you impatient to get back to working on space, we feel the exact
same way.

Oversight isn't optional, and financial health is required for doing large
and complex projects.

Secretly hiring law firms is not healthy.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 2:47 PM Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

>
> But even in your own evaluation there are contradictions.
>
> Quote from your email: "If an expense went to the board for approval, it
> would show up in the
>   minutes of that board meeting."
>
> Further down your email: "- In this case, the members of the AMSAT board
> at the time said that the
>   expenses were authorized."
>
>
> Then, by your own evaluation of the by-laws, if the members of the board
> authorized the expenditures (second quote), shouldn't that authorization
> show up in the minutes of the board meeting? (first quote)
>
> Steve AI9IN
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
> Date: 07/13/20 15:25
> To: Amsat - BBs (AMSAT-BB at amsat.org)
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Brief summary of the "unauthorized expenses" claim
>
> First: I'm not a lawyer.  These are my observations only.
>
> This is what I learned over the past few days while researching the claim
> that the AMSAT money spent on legal services related to the new directors
> was "unauthorized".
>
>   - I read the AMSAT bylaws.  They are very readable, BTW - and not long.
>   - The bylaws say that expenses can be authorized either by the board
>   itself or by the officers of AMSAT if the board delegates that authority.
>   - If an expense went to the board for approval, it would show up in the
>   minutes of that board meeting.
>   - If an expense were authorized by an officer, then it wouldn't show up
>   in the minutes of a board meeting.
>   - The claim that the expenses were unauthorized was based on the
>   observation that there was no record in the board meeting minutes of the
>   authorization.  However, as mentioned above, not everything has to go to
>   the board for approval.  And that decision is up to the board itself.
>   - In this case, the members of the AMSAT board at the time said that the
>   expenses were authorized.
>   - Since the board has the authority to authorize expenditures (directly
>   or indirectly) and they say the expenses were authorized, that indicates
> to
>   me that the expenses were authorized.
>
> Note: Michelle and Patrick were not members of the board when this
> happened.  They were analyzing this after the fact.
>
> Rich
> KD2CQ
> AMSAT Life Member
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From rich at ourowndomain.com  Mon Jul 13 22:03:13 2020
From: rich at ourowndomain.com (Rich Gopstein)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 18:03:13 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Brief summary of the "unauthorized expenses" claim
In-Reply-To: <1fdeda8fb65dcf349de22015c4600119@etczone.com>
References: <CANsNeaoAOL8BRBS8efmhNVC8-vQ3cWb3+uF2X1pkpe05=t2jFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1fdeda8fb65dcf349de22015c4600119@etczone.com>
Message-ID: <CANsNeap=vWYZMOaQsmLHtu-asnSmf1O17faADiQgdTLgHk7OCg@mail.gmail.com>

Let me clarify:

I said "the board said the expenses were authorized."

I didn't say "the board directly authorized the expenses"

The implication is that the officers authorized the expenses and the board
was OK with that.  And since it's up to the board to decide what the
officers can or can't authorize, the fact that they said that the expenses
were authorized should be sufficient.

Rich


On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:46 PM Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

>
> But even in your own evaluation there are contradictions.
>
> Quote from your email: "If an expense went to the board for approval, it
> would show up in the
>   minutes of that board meeting."
>
> Further down your email: "- In this case, the members of the AMSAT board
> at the time said that the
>   expenses were authorized."
>
>
> Then, by your own evaluation of the by-laws, if the members of the board
> authorized the expenditures (second quote), shouldn't that authorization
> show up in the minutes of the board meeting? (first quote)
>
> Steve AI9IN
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
> Date: 07/13/20 15:25
> To: Amsat - BBs (AMSAT-BB at amsat.org)
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Brief summary of the "unauthorized expenses" claim
>
> First: I'm not a lawyer.  These are my observations only.
>
> This is what I learned over the past few days while researching the claim
> that the AMSAT money spent on legal services related to the new directors
> was "unauthorized".
>
>   - I read the AMSAT bylaws.  They are very readable, BTW - and not long.
>   - The bylaws say that expenses can be authorized either by the board
>   itself or by the officers of AMSAT if the board delegates that authority.
>   - If an expense went to the board for approval, it would show up in the
>   minutes of that board meeting.
>   - If an expense were authorized by an officer, then it wouldn't show up
>   in the minutes of a board meeting.
>   - The claim that the expenses were unauthorized was based on the
>   observation that there was no record in the board meeting minutes of the
>   authorization.  However, as mentioned above, not everything has to go to
>   the board for approval.  And that decision is up to the board itself.
>   - In this case, the members of the AMSAT board at the time said that the
>   expenses were authorized.
>   - Since the board has the authority to authorize expenditures (directly
>   or indirectly) and they say the expenses were authorized, that indicates
> to
>   me that the expenses were authorized.
>
> Note: Michelle and Patrick were not members of the board when this
> happened.  They were analyzing this after the fact.
>
> Rich
> KD2CQ
> AMSAT Life Member
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 13 22:29:45 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 15:29:45 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] A question
In-Reply-To: <F1920021-98F0-4650-B305-74A7DB72521E@optonline.net>
References: <F1920021-98F0-4650-B305-74A7DB72521E@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <912e0b8c-a904-466a-8d73-76c3b4b48e22@yahoo.com>

No idea

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 13, 2020, 15:22, at 15:22, Efrem Acosta via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>Is it true all posts now on this board are being held for approval by a
>moderator?
>
>
>
>73 De W2CZ
>Sent from my iPhone
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 13 22:30:37 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 15:30:37 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] A question
In-Reply-To: <F1920021-98F0-4650-B305-74A7DB72521E@optonline.net>
References: <F1920021-98F0-4650-B305-74A7DB72521E@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <f10c748d-ff5a-415e-b6f8-2e1e783181fb@yahoo.com>

They don't appear to be.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 13, 2020, 15:22, at 15:22, Efrem Acosta via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>Is it true all posts now on this board are being held for approval by a
>moderator?
>
>
>
>73 De W2CZ
>Sent from my iPhone
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From ollie at ollietech.com  Mon Jul 13 21:59:51 2020
From: ollie at ollietech.com (Ollie Eisman)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 15:59:51 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] Large AZ/El disk rotors
Message-ID: <842251bf-e5a5-bce9-6779-5ccc81ff82ed@ollietech.com>

Hi everyone,

I would like to attach a solid 8' fiberglass dish to an az/el rotor 
system.? Does anyone have any experience with either Alfa Spid Big 
RAK/RAEL system or the Sub Lunar EME rotor that Green Heron sells?? 
Curious to know how well they work, handle wind gusts, interface with a 
PC, etc.

I like what M2 offers but their prices are a bit more than I can 
afford.? I'm open to suggestions.

73,
Ollie AJ1O
AMSAT #19698



From tnetcenter at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 23:01:11 2020
From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 16:01:11 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Reading is fundamental
In-Reply-To: <1662986521.829843.1594651479690@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1662986521.829843.1594651479690.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1662986521.829843.1594651479690@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CALx_moQ9HC7GOn=nrRGeQQ0V5WchXBvzMbNGezuumQkqLas_vA@mail.gmail.com>

Peter,

That's a pretty good assessment of what went on from everything I've seen
so far.

However, I disagree about the severity of the financial issues!   I don't
know what the AMSAT-NA budget is, in reality, 4 or 5 dollars may not seem
like a big amount but when it is misappropriated it is still a crime and
someone needs to be made aware of the situation.   We aren't talking 4 or 5
dollars here we're talking about 4 or 5 THOUSAND Dollars(or more) and that
IS NOT TRIVIAL - it is a major FELONY and needs to be addressed for anyone
to have confidence in AMSAT-NA's operations going forward.

My personal assessment of this at this point in time is along the lines of
the "good ole boy network" in charge doesn't like being caught making
questionable expenditures to the point that one of them felt it necessary
to RESIGN when all this came up.   That suggests that something fishy is
going on and this all needs to be investigated by a 3rd party and if
necessary criminal charges need to be pursued against the responsible
parties.

On a slightly different related note - if the AMSAT-NA board is only
meeting once a year, how the hell is anything getting done???

If the incumbent board members are not willing to address these SERIOUS
issues - they should step down and let someone that will, take over!!

Trust me, it's NOT fun to remove a board member that is embezzling funds,
BUT IT HAS TO BE DONE REGARDLESS!!!

7  3
Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY

From pgprendergast at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 13 23:48:36 2020
From: pgprendergast at yahoo.com (Peter)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 23:48:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Reading is fundamental
In-Reply-To: <CALx_moQ9HC7GOn=nrRGeQQ0V5WchXBvzMbNGezuumQkqLas_vA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1662986521.829843.1594651479690.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1662986521.829843.1594651479690@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CALx_moQ9HC7GOn=nrRGeQQ0V5WchXBvzMbNGezuumQkqLas_vA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <257008219.1163130.1594684116824@mail.yahoo.com>

 Jeff:? ? I am puzzled by the issue of crimes here?? No one embezzled monies or at least no claim of that exists that I have read.Poor oversight, well a good case for that could be made, but these other allegations are to much.?
? ? Putting some serious resources to an outside consultant firm like ?deloitte?and touche

| 
| 
|  | 
deloitte and touche - Google Search


 |

 |

 |


?to come in, do a top to bottom?
evaluation of the functioning of the organization would be money well spent in the long run.? Might be 75k, but without?a doubt the organization would be more stable and accountable.? Proper on boarding training of board members seemsto be long hanging fruit.??
? ?The current board has members who've got serious connections to the aerospace industry.? Highly valued I would say,but that doesn't mean they are qualified to run a business.? What would help tremendously here would be to find folks to beon the board with serious business expertise, and use the current human resources in a far more effective way than it appearsthey are being used.
Peter

    On Monday, July 13, 2020, 07:30:36 PM EDT, Jeff Moore <tnetcenter at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 Peter,
That's a pretty good assessment of what went on from everything I've seen so far.
However, I disagree about the severity of the financial issues!?? I don't know what the AMSAT-NA budget is, in reality, 4 or 5 dollars may not seem like a big amount but when it is misappropriated it is still a crime and someone needs to be made aware of the situation. ? We aren't talking 4 or 5 dollars here we're talking about 4 or 5 THOUSAND Dollars(or more) and that IS NOT TRIVIAL - it is a major FELONY and needs to be addressed for anyone to have confidence in AMSAT-NA's operations going forward.
My personal assessment of this at this point in time is along the lines of the "good ole boy network" in charge doesn't like being caught making questionable expenditures to the point that one of them felt it necessary to RESIGN when all this came up. ? That suggests that something fishy is going on and this all needs to be investigated by a 3rd party and if necessary criminal charges need to be pursued against the responsible parties.
On a slightly different related note - if the AMSAT-NA board is only meeting once a year, how the hell is anything getting done???
If the incumbent board members are not willing to address these SERIOUS issues - they should step down and let someone that will, take over!!
Trust me, it's NOT fun to remove a board member that is embezzling funds, BUT IT HAS TO BE DONE REGARDLESS!!!

7? 3Jeff Moore? --? KE7ACY



  

From ve6egn at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 23:54:14 2020
From: ve6egn at gmail.com (egon)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 17:54:14 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <441122474.1064586.1594673440635@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.6647.1594644904.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org><1984320037.797478.1594652358770@myemail.cox.net><4c89ff8a749b097c9a39b2d48aa79ed5@etczone.com>
	<441122474.1064586.1594673440635@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7BF45AECFCD94A7DA50457EF5A917FEB@EgonPC>

Same here I have had it.



Egon VE6EGN/SA3EGN
-----Original Message----- 
From: Bob Liddy (K8BL) via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 2:50 PM
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list

AMSAT Membership,
OK....  I'm saturated!!!
AMSAT-BB is going to SPAM from this point on. My Mailbox has become filled 
with non-stop posts about whatever this nightmare actually is and 
whatcountless people are opining about it. I can't take any more and several 
folksthat are long-time Members have told me the same. At this point, I 
don't carehow it ends as long as it ends. I'll check back in a couple weeks.
73 & CUL,    Bob  K8BL                       (AMSAT #6593, Since 1979)


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions 
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of 
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions 
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of 
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb 


From spatrickfay at gmail.com  Tue Jul 14 00:18:43 2020
From: spatrickfay at gmail.com (sean fay)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 19:18:43 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] children
In-Reply-To: <1478679106.53611.1594663797984@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <1712165007.494111.1594583328598.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1712165007.494111.1594583328598@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CADkz4c8eeEfCHORcgar3C3AXxGaTuJkLWb3yMkT3FHcpv1ENWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CH2PR12MB38930FA8A6FAEA2AAABBA3BDA9600@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAPOM0dm1zQwE6puntpn8=gsO3rvWsurEq8XodVvkHsQH2=9WGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E7E93051-9A38-41FC-AAA8-ACD745F8670C@comcast.net>
	<1237381593.52917.1594657886386@connect.xfinity.com>
	<1478679106.53611.1594663797984@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <CAEWsTrP3UZtiVk0Vk9nb3kQSNDU4A-_yrF_UWCHrpobKCG6Okw@mail.gmail.com>

Do you think it's appropriate to infantilize a duly elected board member?

Sean Fay
AA0AN

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 4:03 PM 73 Bob W7LRD via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

>
>  When my children were very young they would very occasionally get into
> fights and conflicts.  I would put them both into a small room in the house
> and tell them, "you're not coming out until you can get along.
> > 73 Bob W7LRD
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From kb2ysi at gmail.com  Tue Jul 14 00:21:39 2020
From: kb2ysi at gmail.com (Don KB2YSI)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 20:21:39 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] huskysat-1
In-Reply-To: <3123473f-24d3-5674-e6f9-09f54af9de4f@amsat.org>
References: <458090142.2607709.1594319883700.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<458090142.2607709.1594319883700@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAJCSnOa+ZTqJ8yHKF7PFmDRYZBZ8EK1v-XQim8eY9NK-soyXkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<3123473f-24d3-5674-e6f9-09f54af9de4f@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <CAAJiE8OWsC5YoZN5tRGdtimvwx_nyxDwPOPh6Za+7E+V34jTcQ@mail.gmail.com>

That is awesome, not the death of the bird, but the amazing amount of work
that went into getting the bird into space with an Amateur payload included.

The chance that more AMSAT LTMs will make it into space is awesome too!
More opportunities for passes during the times when I can work passes!

On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 16:50 Jerry Buxton via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> On 7/10/2020 09:47, Scott via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > I have tried the linear transponder numerous times & as recently as a day
> > or two ago with nothing heard.
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 9:13 AM Rosa & Robert Fitzpatrick via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >> what is the latest status on huskysat-1.thank you bob/kb5sqgGranbury tx
> >>
> >
> While it is disappointing that the transponder did not see a longer
> period of use following the science missions, the overall
> HuskySat-1/HO-107 project and mission were quite beneficial for our
> partner and for AMSAT.  The HuskySat-1 team were able to command their
> satellite and experiments and receive the telemetry they sought, and
> AMSAT was able to work through the extensive process of making a new
> design for a "black box" radio module that can be integrated into a
> non-AMSAT spacecraft and fly in the space environment.
>
> The LTM (Linear Transponder Module) on HO-107 worked for over three
> months after HuskySat-1 came alive following its deployment.
> The failure of the LTM came during or just after a period of full sun
> where LTM temperatures reached over 80 degrees Celsius.
>
> While licensed and operated as an amateur radio satellite by AMSAT
> during the transponder use, there are some facts that set HO-107 apart
> from our Fox-1 CubeSats and other AMSAT satellites.
>
> 1. It's not our satellite.  We have no control and may not have any
> insight into how a partner actually uses the LTM.  While we see the LTM
> temperatures and many of the other typical data fields that we downlink
> to FoxTelem regarding LTM health, data such as temperature of the host
> environment as well as other specific information like power and the
> state of the other systems in a host satellite may or may not be
> available to us.  Whether LTM is operated within design limits is
> entirely up to the host.
>
> The University of Washington HuskySat Labs team was very cooperative
> with us on this mission, however there are things regarding their
> mission that we do not know because they are processing and studying
> their data for use in their thesis and classes and preparing it for
> release in a specific way typical of such an institution today.  AMSAT
> is generally more forthcoming with information about our missions but
> what we can and have said about this mission is determined by UW.
> That is really no different to certain aspects of our own missions.
> Most members are likely familiar with the vague wording I provide for
> some of our launch timelines and that is the result of the same thing,
> in the owner of the launch vehicle or LSP/APIC determining what we can
> say to the public and when.
>
> 2.  HO-107 was the first ever use of a new product, the AMSAT LTM.  The
> LTM idea was first put forth at the AMSAT leadership strategic planning
> meeting in 2017 and is now coming into availability for other non-AMSAT
> CubeSats to fly amateur radio on their mission.
>
> HO-107 is the pilot production of LTM and was developed in partnership
> with UW HuskySat-1.  It was the first CubeSat radio module designed and
> built by AMSAT for use in other host CubeSats, and UW was key in working
> with us through the design and processes needed to provide such a
> module.  They did not buy it as, nor did we give it to them as an "off
> the shelf" product as we plan to for future LTM production.  LTM was
> developed from the Fox-1E linear transponder design, and provided in a
> partnership with UW that started in November 2014 when we made an
> agreement with University of Washington to fly an amateur radio on their
> CubeSat mission.  Overall, the HuskySat-1 team were quite happy with the
> telemetry and command performance even with the LTM anomalies showing up
> toward the end of their experiments.  In the process of getting
> HuskySat-1 to orbit several students became interested in amateur radio,
> and we have already had preliminary discussions of future joint mission
> plans.
>
> The ability to provide more LTM to new and future partners will increase
> the number of orbiting satellites carrying amateur radio, at a low cost
> to AMSAT and the partner, keeping amateur radio in space even as we
> develop newer and more capable satellites.  There is no doubt that
> HO-107 was a success in many ways beyond the operational life of the
> transponder.
>
> As usual, the AMSAT Engineering team of volunteers deserve the praise
> for putting yet another amateur radio in space be it in our own
> satellite, or in a partner satellite!
>
> Jerry Buxton, N?JY
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From tucker at mcguireland.com  Tue Jul 14 00:37:42 2020
From: tucker at mcguireland.com (Tucker McGuire)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 20:37:42 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Mr David Swanson.....
In-Reply-To: <CAKu8kHBhENrBeyxpdkXm2RWiCzrx=ActnmTWXy_+FiG2iEzWsQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2U2fCYU4r8fLYE49HG80VHCRh9_LyW-5QQ5JP-cdNkUsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyWHQ8o369h6=fqi1PJLWuMGP-1dTVj5Oej2CstAPY8S-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2U4M0XDpWM9L9-fr27vxJ6FaT8iGJHvf98U39SX4Zk7=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANq+eyXFLpC9t8jMG-8+x6TxQSTYFeKQ0s=_8j-g=LV98P4+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKu8kHBhENrBeyxpdkXm2RWiCzrx=ActnmTWXy_+FiG2iEzWsQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+gmQJRMrZkeYHFOzFRiXKOM0LeMgnRGa=s8BZ=mW5m2SONKtQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Stefan,

All of your annoying, and arrogant, and condescending comments on here over
the past few years are an embarrassment to the AMSAT community.

STOP IT!

Warm Regards,
Tucker
W4FS

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 8:13 PM Stefan Wagener via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Mr David Swanson,
>
> Your vicious, sarcastic, and personal attacks against a duly elected board
> member and more importantly another human being are totally uncalled
> for and a total embarrassment to yourself.
>
> STOP IT!
>
> Stefan VE4SW
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 2:28 PM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > It's always fun to remind folks tripping over their own feat lying that
> the
> > internet is forever. From a Bruce Perens Tweet on July 13, 2020:
> >
> > "Please see my letter on the web, or the paper copy I've mailed to
> everyone
> > one of you".
> >
> > Of course the original tweet was deleted, but the wayback machine never
> > forgets. Don't Believe me? http://druidnetworks.com/2020-07-13.png
> >
> > If you still think the membership list wasn't compromised, I just heard
> > Director Thompson will be auctioning off their ocean front property in
> > Arizona to all the members this year to raise funds for their microwave,
> > digital only, strictly open source crowd funded, vegan, social justice
> > aware cubesat launch to Proxima Centauri. Of course this launch will only
> > come after 10 years of ground station development, but fueled with enough
> > hopes, dreams and promises it will become a reality!
> >
> > For the rest of us who actually want to keep amateur radio in (real)
> space
> > and are disgusted at the violations of privacy that occured by 3rd
> parties
> > working to get Director Thompson and Director Stoddard elected, well, you
> > should know what to do.
> >
> > -Dave, KG5CCI
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:24 AM Michelle Thompson <
> > mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > No database went anywhere except to candidates. This is allowed in the
> > > bylaws.
> > >
> > > Then, an automated bulk mail printing server was used. I recommended
> the
> > > company to Brennan Price for this year's mailing. Good service,
> > > inexpensive.
> > >
> > > Return addresses don't magically transfer information.
> > >
> > > -Michelle W5NYV
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 04:32 David Swanson <dave at druidnetworks.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Spin Spin Spin. The simple truth here is Director Thompson took the
> > AMSAT
> > >> member database, and handed it over to a 3rd party competing entity
> for
> > the
> > >> purpose of solicitation. I know I did not give ORI my home address,
> yet
> > ORI
> > >> sent me a letter. This was a violation of my privacy, and for AMSAT
> > >> members living in the EU, this was a violation of the law. Any attempt
> > to
> > >> explain this away is just more lies and deceit from Director Thompson
> > about
> > >> the shady practices they have engaged in over the past few years. As I
> > keep
> > >> saying, this isn't a one time thing, this is a pattern of
> > >> reprehensible behavior that is unbecoming of an elected position and
> > this
> > >> community. Director Thompson and Director Stoddard should resign.
> > >>
> > >> -Dave, KG5CCI
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:33 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
> > >> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Yes, I can.
> > >>>
> > >>> That part of Clayton's letter is wrong and has been repeatedly
> > clarified
> > >>> before. Including at the 2019 annual board meeting, where Tom Clark
> > asked
> > >>> me about it, as part of the record.
> > >>>
> > >>> Clayton Coleman was secretary in 2019.
> > >>>
> > >>> He ran the election.
> > >>>
> > >>> He decided that candidate statements were limited in length to 350
> > words,
> > >>> would be subject to editorial control by AMSAT, and could not include
> > >>> links. These new rules were given to us right before the 4th of July
> > >>> holiday with a deadline of the 7th.
> > >>>
> > >>> This is different than any election before, where statements went
> > >>> directly
> > >>> to the printer from the candidate, were not limited in length, and no
> > one
> > >>> from AMSAT leadership (who might be running for reelection
> themselves)
> > >>> had
> > >>> any control over the content of their challengers' statements.
> > >>>
> > >>> We got these rules right before ballots went out. We (four
> challengers)
> > >>> already had normal-sized statements on the web and they had been up
> six
> > >>> weeks at that point. Those were the ones we wanted to use, and link
> to.
> > >>>
> > >>> We knew that as candidates, we had the right to request the mailing
> > list,
> > >>> and send our own statements, independent of the ballot.
> > >>>
> > >>> I requested the address list and got the DBASE4 export.
> > >>>
> > >>> Bruce Perens had already written a letter of support and distributed
> it
> > >>> widely on the web. It introduced us and included our four full bios
> and
> > >>> statements.
> > >>>
> > >>> I asked Bruce if we could use his letter in the mailing. He said yes.
> > >>> Since
> > >>> he was President of Open Research Institute at the time, he wanted
> the
> > >>> return address to not be his private home address, but a business
> > >>> address.
> > >>> That was ORI's address. He was the author of the endorsement, so I
> used
> > >>> his
> > >>> preferred return address.
> > >>>
> > >>> I converted the DBASE4 to a more useful format, fixed the 50 or so
> > >>> undeliverable addresses, and found an inexpensive printer. Then I
> sent
> > >>> the
> > >>> letter from Bruce to the printer, with the bios and statements.
> > >>>
> > >>> That turned out to be a good thing. Bios and statements were not
> > included
> > >>> with the ballots mailed out, at all.
> > >>>
> > >>> If we had not sent the letter, then name recognition would be the
> > primary
> > >>> factor. We were running against well-known people.
> > >>>
> > >>> We complained about this. It was unusual departure from the past and
> > >>> seemed
> > >>> set up to let leadership benefit from being incumbents.
> > >>>
> > >>> The original proposal from Clayton was for an electronic only ballot.
> > >>> Patrick said that the bylaws were a bit clunky here and it did need
> to
> > be
> > >>> mailed out on paper. Paper was required.
> > >>>
> > >>> This is a big reason why I made a motion at our one  board meeting,
> in
> > >>> March, for a bylaws committee.
> > >>>
> > >>> This bylaw isn't hard to fix. There's lots of examples out there of
> > >>> organizations doing electronic voting with working published bylaws.
> > >>>
> > >>> Bruce made it very clear, when the incumbents stirred up the pot
> about
> > >>> the
> > >>> return address, that it was an endorsement from him, this was
> commonly
> > >>> done
> > >>> in political campaigns, and it would be grossly improper for me to
> use
> > >>> AMSATs return address because that would make it look like Bruce was
> > >>> speaking for or was from AMSAT. That was not going to happen. *That*
> > >>> would
> > >>> be improper.
> > >>>
> > >>> No one candidate wanted their personal address used as a return
> > address.
> > >>> We
> > >>> were mailing this as a slate and splitting the cost. We didn't have
> > time
> > >>> or
> > >>> funds to make an organization or rent a box for one letter on short
> > >>> notice.
> > >>> The printer required a real return address.
> > >>>
> > >>> No one had the address list except the candidates. Namely me because
> I
> > >>> contracted the printer and handled the DBASE4 address conversion.
> That
> > >>> is a
> > >>> neat story in and of itself,, for another time.
> > >>>
> > >>> Bruce only sent the text to me and chipped in some money for postage.
> > >>>
> > >>> The printing was automated in Van Nuys, CA.
> > >>>
> > >>> All of this is known to Clayton Coleman and his friends on the board
> > that
> > >>> signed the statement from this week. It has been explained by Bruce
> > >>> publicly, and by me several times on social media. Tom Clark brought
> it
> > >>> up
> > >>> at the 2019 annual board meeting because of the return address
> > >>> pot-stirring. I explained it there too. Like I said, it's on the
> > record.
> > >>>
> > >>> I think insinuating the addresses were mishandled is a deliberate
> > >>> twisting
> > >>> of honest efforts to scramble to get uncensored candidate statements
> > out
> > >>> to
> > >>> voters on short notice. We just didn't have a lot of time, and Bruce
> > was
> > >>> very generous in writing a cover letter.
> > >>>
> > >>> Again, candidates are allowed the use of the mailing lists for
> election
> > >>> purposes.
> > >>>
> > >>> So, no, there was no breach. Clayton knows all this.
> > >>>
> > >>> Saying it the way he did is a cheap shot at me, Patrick, Bruce
> Perens,
> > >>> and
> > >>> ORI.
> > >>>
> > >>>  -Michelle W5NYV
> > >>>
> > >>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 19:11 Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> >   Hello All,
> > >>> >
> > >>> >    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we
> > all
> > >>> > received as members.
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>>
> >
> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
> > >>> >
> > >>> > I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed
> > >>> before.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses
> to
> > >>> > Open Research Institute."
> > >>> >
> > >>> >     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a
> > >>> serious
> > >>> > breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information
> lost?
> > >>> > was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they
> > say
> > >>> > "out in the wind"?
> > >>> >
> > >>> > Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack
> how
> > >>> > ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it
> something
> > >>> > that was procured online?
> > >>> >
> > >>> > AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what
> > it
> > >>> > found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening
> in
> > >>> > the future.
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> > I look forward to an answer
> > >>> >
> > >>> > 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> > _______________________________________________
> > >>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> > available
> > >>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > >>> Opinions
> > >>> > expressed
> > >>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views
> > >>> of
> > >>> > AMSAT-NA.
> > >>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > >>> program!
> > >>> > Subscription settings:
> > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >>> >
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> > >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > >>> Opinions expressed
> > >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> > of
> > >>> AMSAT-NA.
> > >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > >>> program!
> > >>> Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >>>
> > >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From brennanprice at verizon.net  Tue Jul 14 00:44:33 2020
From: brennanprice at verizon.net (Brennan Price)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 00:44:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Publications and mailing lists
References: <851995224.1060774.1594687473630.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <851995224.1060774.1594687473630@mail.yahoo.com>

I generally don't intend to engage in the ongoing discussion s beyond an announcement on process once the ballots are mailed (which they will be, tomorrow or Wednesday, on or before the date specified in the bylaws), but I do want to address what the Bylaws say about the organization's publications and mailing lists, as I think (perhaps na?vely) that would be helpful.
Article III Section 3 provides, in relevant part:
<<Duly nominated and eligible candidates shall be afforded equal opportunity to circulate statements of their qualifications and positions to the Members through the corporation?s publications and shall have use of the corporation?s mailing lists for election-related purposes at no cost to the corporation.>>
The production and publication schedule of the AMSAT Journal does not render it a suitable vehicle for candidate statements given the bylaws-mandated nomination and election timing. The absence of campaign statements from the Journal is entirely consistent with the Bylaws: no opportunity for any candidate is inherently equal opportunity for all candidates.
Traditionally, the organization has used the ballot mailing itself the relevant publication, and this is the approach that will be taken this year. The?"equal opportunity" requirement and paper format (not to mention common practice across multiple organization's) necessitates a target word count, balanced to the extent possible against letting candidates have their say. All candidates met or came close to meeting the target I suggested (350 words), with the most long-winded exceeding by 14 words according to the Word 2016 word counter. Upon review, I offered the remaining candidates the chance to expand up to 364 words. None of them took the offer. All six statements will accompany the ballot, and none of them required editorial work beyond the correction of a repeated word and an excess space. I thank the candidates for making that part of the job easy.?
I have construed the mailing list as the postal mailing list, which has been offered to each candidate (and thus far, five of the six have accepted the list). Data protection regulations require the corporation to take reasonable efforts to safeguard personally identifiable information, and candidates accepting the list have agreed to support those efforts by limiting use of the list for the "election-related purposes" specified in the bylaws.?Two results follow:
1) There are no election-related purposes once the election ends. Accordingly, candidates have agreed to discard the list after the election.
2) It is common to engage agents for mailing and postage purposes. I will not hyper-officiate any candidate's choice to do so, but candidates have agreed that any agent will have access to the list only for the time necessary to execute the mailing and will be required by the candidate to discard it afterwards.
This is a reasonable effort to safeguard in light of the bylaws requirement for candidate access to mailing lists, which establishes an expectation (however infrequently it came to fruition in past) that members may receive election-related postal mail.?
I think that's enough for now.?
73,Brennan Price, N4QXSecretary, AMSAT



Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From almetco at comcast.net  Tue Jul 14 01:12:46 2020
From: almetco at comcast.net (Greg)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 21:12:46 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Brief summary of the "unauthorized expenses" claim
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2UBgkg0xja-y8ea4FtmOjkJfcESB47f-xmr0kgAkvcaQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANsNeaoAOL8BRBS8efmhNVC8-vQ3cWb3+uF2X1pkpe05=t2jFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1fdeda8fb65dcf349de22015c4600119@etczone.com>
	<CACvjz2UBgkg0xja-y8ea4FtmOjkJfcESB47f-xmr0kgAkvcaQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C530D9E3-A79F-4460-AE9D-754DC6C949AA@comcast.net>

Just curious.  Is there a policy that requires a limit for certain $ amount of expenditures. Even the radio club that I was treasurer, we had about 90 members, had requirements on authorizing expenditures over a certain limit.

Greg
N3MVF

On Jul 13, 2020, at 5:58 PM, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

Yes. That's the problem.

Some AMSAT board members claim the expenses are authorized. They wrote a 3
page letter about it to AMSAT-BB.

Neither a record of approval, nor a delegation of these expenses, ever
appear in the minutes. *Unlike the hiring of FD Associates, which was
legit, and appears in the minutes*

Even if we were objecting to boring expenses, instead of spicy personalized
vendetta advice having nothing to do with keeping amateur radio in space,
then they'd still be in the wrong.

This could have been resolved in less than a half hour.

The rest of the board denied it for most of a year, hid it almost the whole
time, and now are defending it to the death.

Please, send us people that we can work with, will agree to have meetings,
and will fix this sort of thing.

Those of you impatient to get back to working on space, we feel the exact
same way.

Oversight isn't optional, and financial health is required for doing large
and complex projects.

Secretly hiring law firms is not healthy.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 2:47 PM Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> 
> But even in your own evaluation there are contradictions.
> 
> Quote from your email: "If an expense went to the board for approval, it
> would show up in the
>  minutes of that board meeting."
> 
> Further down your email: "- In this case, the members of the AMSAT board
> at the time said that the
>  expenses were authorized."
> 
> 
> Then, by your own evaluation of the by-laws, if the members of the board
> authorized the expenditures (second quote), shouldn't that authorization
> show up in the minutes of the board meeting? (first quote)
> 
> Steve AI9IN
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
> Date: 07/13/20 15:25
> To: Amsat - BBs (AMSAT-BB at amsat.org)
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Brief summary of the "unauthorized expenses" claim
> 
> First: I'm not a lawyer.  These are my observations only.
> 
> This is what I learned over the past few days while researching the claim
> that the AMSAT money spent on legal services related to the new directors
> was "unauthorized".
> 
>  - I read the AMSAT bylaws.  They are very readable, BTW - and not long.
>  - The bylaws say that expenses can be authorized either by the board
>  itself or by the officers of AMSAT if the board delegates that authority.
>  - If an expense went to the board for approval, it would show up in the
>  minutes of that board meeting.
>  - If an expense were authorized by an officer, then it wouldn't show up
>  in the minutes of a board meeting.
>  - The claim that the expenses were unauthorized was based on the
>  observation that there was no record in the board meeting minutes of the
>  authorization.  However, as mentioned above, not everything has to go to
>  the board for approval.  And that decision is up to the board itself.
>  - In this case, the members of the AMSAT board at the time said that the
>  expenses were authorized.
>  - Since the board has the authority to authorize expenditures (directly
>  or indirectly) and they say the expenses were authorized, that indicates
> to
>  me that the expenses were authorized.
> 
> Note: Michelle and Patrick were not members of the board when this
> happened.  They were analyzing this after the fact.
> 
> Rich
> KD2CQ
> AMSAT Life Member
> _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From tnetcenter at gmail.com  Tue Jul 14 01:29:07 2020
From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 18:29:07 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Brief summary of the "unauthorized expenses" claim
In-Reply-To: <CANsNeap=vWYZMOaQsmLHtu-asnSmf1O17faADiQgdTLgHk7OCg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANsNeaoAOL8BRBS8efmhNVC8-vQ3cWb3+uF2X1pkpe05=t2jFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1fdeda8fb65dcf349de22015c4600119@etczone.com>
	<CANsNeap=vWYZMOaQsmLHtu-asnSmf1O17faADiQgdTLgHk7OCg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALx_moScScsA6BDDjbkVUvK2bMhGH3o+xW-q2CXfhoAwtMQf8A@mail.gmail.com>

IF the BoD approved the expenses, why isn't that reflected in OFFICIAL
documentation???

Seems to me the incumbents are playing fast and loose with the facts
here!!!!

3 rd party investigation is called for to get at the REAL truth!   Then let
the chips fall where they may!

7   3
Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY


On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 6:15 PM Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Let me clarify:
>
> I said "the board said the expenses were authorized."
>
> I didn't say "the board directly authorized the expenses"
>
> The implication is that the officers authorized the expenses and the board
> was OK with that.  And since it's up to the board to decide what the
> officers can or can't authorize, the fact that they said that the expenses
> were authorized should be sufficient.
>
> Rich
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:46 PM Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> >
> > But even in your own evaluation there are contradictions.
> >
> > Quote from your email: "If an expense went to the board for approval, it
> > would show up in the
> >   minutes of that board meeting."
> >
> > Further down your email: "- In this case, the members of the AMSAT board
> > at the time said that the
> >   expenses were authorized."
> >
> >
> > Then, by your own evaluation of the by-laws, if the members of the board
> > authorized the expenditures (second quote), shouldn't that authorization
> > show up in the minutes of the board meeting? (first quote)
> >
> > Steve AI9IN
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
> > Date: 07/13/20 15:25
> > To: Amsat - BBs (AMSAT-BB at amsat.org)
> > Subject: [amsat-bb] Brief summary of the "unauthorized expenses" claim
> >
> > First: I'm not a lawyer.  These are my observations only.
> >
> > This is what I learned over the past few days while researching the claim
> > that the AMSAT money spent on legal services related to the new directors
> > was "unauthorized".
> >
> >   - I read the AMSAT bylaws.  They are very readable, BTW - and not long.
> >   - The bylaws say that expenses can be authorized either by the board
> >   itself or by the officers of AMSAT if the board delegates that
> authority.
> >   - If an expense went to the board for approval, it would show up in the
> >   minutes of that board meeting.
> >   - If an expense were authorized by an officer, then it wouldn't show up
> >   in the minutes of a board meeting.
> >   - The claim that the expenses were unauthorized was based on the
> >   observation that there was no record in the board meeting minutes of
> the
> >   authorization.  However, as mentioned above, not everything has to go
> to
> >   the board for approval.  And that decision is up to the board itself.
> >   - In this case, the members of the AMSAT board at the time said that
> the
> >   expenses were authorized.
> >   - Since the board has the authority to authorize expenditures (directly
> >   or indirectly) and they say the expenses were authorized, that
> indicates
> > to
> >   me that the expenses were authorized.
> >
> > Note: Michelle and Patrick were not members of the board when this
> > happened.  They were analyzing this after the fact.
> >
> > Rich
> > KD2CQ
> > AMSAT Life Member
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From rich at ourowndomain.com  Tue Jul 14 01:37:36 2020
From: rich at ourowndomain.com (Rich Gopstein)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 21:37:36 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] A question
In-Reply-To: <f10c748d-ff5a-415e-b6f8-2e1e783181fb@yahoo.com>
References: <F1920021-98F0-4650-B305-74A7DB72521E@optonline.net>
	<f10c748d-ff5a-415e-b6f8-2e1e783181fb@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CANsNeao-aA-Rzr2Nf0XygTrVz3+3FSF0R8ZieswmMwYFWiXSOg@mail.gmail.com>

I know that my posts don't show up for me in Gmail.  They're there, but
it's not apparent.



On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:29 PM W3AB/GEO via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> They don't appear to be.
>
> ?___
> Sent from my two way wrist watch
> 73 de W3AB/GEO?
>
> On Jul 13, 2020, 15:22, at 15:22, Efrem Acosta via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >Is it true all posts now on this board are being held for approval by a
> >moderator?
> >
> >
> >
> >73 De W2CZ
> >Sent from my iPhone
> >_______________________________________________
> >Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >Opinions expressed
> >are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> >of AMSAT-NA.
> >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >program!
> >Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From henry.d.turner at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 23:24:18 2020
From: henry.d.turner at gmail.com (HenryTurner)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 18:24:18 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Why we are having this big unpleasant argument on
 your satellite mailing list
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOsL+EO6q3QnLjL395uSeLZR8QnkUuD9q3nJ+O4e7Kvytw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK2MWOsL+EO6q3QnLjL395uSeLZR8QnkUuD9q3nJ+O4e7Kvytw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aaab5fc4-70ac-f9a0-44dd-8b91086aa982@gmail.com>

Hello all,

I am not an AMSAT member.? I know no one personally or otherwise who is 
to my knowledge a member of AMSAT.? The last member I knew, was W5GEL.? 
Some may remember him.? He was well known and SK in July of 2003.? I 
have not worked a satellite in years.? I say all this to establish that 
I truly have no connection to anyone who has responded to any of this 
discussion.

My basic observation is the following:? AMSAT seems to have become the 
object of a takeover.? In the world of public companies this happens 
often, where an activist investor comes in with the intention of taking 
control of the company.? The reasons for this can be varied and 
complex.? Be it intellectual property, general assets or general control 
(usually with a mindset that the company is being run wrongly or 
ineptly.)? Because BODs in a public company are not really selected by 
all stock holders as such only by those who control the majority of the 
stock (don't fool yourself -- your vote is not equal to Buffett's, 
unless you own as many shares as he does.) The activist usually becomes 
well known as are his intentions.? A slate of directors is put up and if 
the activist wins, his board winners are nothing more than his proxies.? 
AMSAT is different instead of an individual buying stock for control, a 
program of "get the votes" from the general membership ensues.? To put 
it in distasteful terms a propaganda war ensues.? Your common Joe or 
Joelene just does not have the access to all that two board members did 
to get the votes to be elected.

Please don't be fooled by the, "it was this or it was that." There is a 
minority who wishes to become the majority.? By bringing all this to the 
public -- chaos ensues -- doubt clouds minds meanwhile control is 
taken.? There are two board members who have caused upheaval they are 
proxies for another.

I would suggest that whether you agree with the direction of AMSAT or 
not, do not let it change (deserving to change or not) because of a 
hijacking or coup.? If it wasn't the attorney expense excuse it would 
have been something else down the road.

Thanks, again, just an opinion based on nothing more than reading these 
discussions.

Henry -- K5YDD




On 7/13/2020 2:13 PM, Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Most of you are members of AMSAT. IMO the organization has some serious
> problems, and as members it is your duty to steer the organization with
> your votes. That means that you should remain aware of what is going on and
> you should make an informed vote. The satellite discussions go on, mostly
> uninterrupted, all year. A short break for politics is not unreasonable,
> and acrimonious discussion is to be expected when we take that break.
>
> Organisations are run by people who would not be doing the work if they did
> not have strong emotions about it. And they all have their own failings.
> Unfortunately, volunteer non-profit directors (and many public ones in big
> corporations) never learn a critical skill of democracy: *how to deal
> properly with opposition. *That is the root of what we are arguing about
> now. Opposition are not the enemy! Yet, they are clearly being treated as
> such. They are simply people who would reform the organization or take it
> in a different direction from the incumbents.
>
> In this case, Michelle and Patrick, before they were elected, were the
> loyal opposition - dedicated to a better organization, and deeply troubled
> by the decisions and conduct of the incumbent board. The incumbent's
> response was not to work with the opposition, but to hunker down and use
> lawyers. To the incumbent's great distress, the very same people got sent
> to the board by the membership! Leading to more lawyers. IMO the incumbents
> should have read this as a signal from the membership, rather than doubling
> down their resistance.
>
> The sad reality is that the newly-elected directors have never been allowed
> to function as directors. You should be concerned, since they are the
> people whom you elected to represent you. The main means used to disable
> your elected representatives has been refusal by the incumbents to hold
> board meetings. This refusal is almost total, with exactly *one* meeting
> being held after the organization's annual convention.
>
> The second means used to disenfranchise the newly-elected directors was
> that the incumbents withheld information which a director would generally
> be expected to have access to. As it happened, this information was at
> least in part discussion of those very same people, and contracting of
> legal counsel in a process against them.
>
> Every board has the right to legal counsel. But it's expensive, and must be
> used wisely. This was not a wise use. A wise use would have been to engage
> the opposition rather than to hunker down.
>
> One very large cause of all of this is that the same people have been
> running AMSAT for a very long time, and it becomes an echo chamber after a
> while - the us-vs-them mentality of the board vs. the opposition - but
> really the board vs. everyone else - becomes self-reinforcing.
>
> This is obviously wrong for the organization. The solution is simple, and
> every organization needs it: *regular turn-over of the people in the
> organization's leadership. *Not the stratification that we currently have.
>
> You can fix this by electing more new blood to the board.
>
>      Thanks
>
>      Bruce
>

From k7trkradio at charter.net  Mon Jul 13 23:58:18 2020
From: k7trkradio at charter.net (Ted Krempa)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 16:58:18 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] test
Message-ID: <00c701d65971$7c78db00$756a9100$@charter.net>

test


From bruce at perens.com  Tue Jul 14 00:58:42 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 17:58:42 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <791b7398-6eb2-2715-d8d5-13b478a63026@gmail.com>
References: <bc959a85-91a4-d28b-22d9-ee948b8a3bba@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOs5TwZuN=-A_Rb39LAONtQHzX3i36efp-_RVeCdGyFnUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6971fd85-2135-85a0-3ade-3c7a36352d47@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOskn_hhT4MpdhwQ2-nz7P44u+SUVuYvr-PYd7P8k3-ARw@mail.gmail.com>
	<34b9e74a-7626-8ae0-a371-c3675f951b7c@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOu-sb=r3bn14TwkT37m_LVhhj+rGrMHM90O0O_nQkjYuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<60901734-65cf-6ad0-c405-1d82f7e31c6e@gmail.com>
	<791b7398-6eb2-2715-d8d5-13b478a63026@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOuaZm+ax-Cgksru-qH4KuxX6jCPR_HXUoETQBd_kuuMkQ@mail.gmail.com>

"I've mailed" does not mean I saw the address list or, for that matter,
that I licked the stamps with my own tongue. We already told you that we
used a company, and Michelle dealt with the company. I doubt that any
letter mailed to you by a politician was physically mailed by them. It's
still a letter from them.

It seems at this point that you are grasping at straws.

    Thanks

    Bruce

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 4:57 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

>
> OK,  one of these two statements is a lie, which one is it?
>
>
> > On 7/12/2020 9:48 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
> >> Kevin,
> >>
> >> No, I never saw the mailing list .*I didn't do the mailing* . I only
> >> wrote the content .
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Bruce K6BP
> >>
> >>
>
> "Please see my letter on the web, or the paper copy*I've mailed*  to
> everyone
> one of you".
>
>
> http://druidnetworks.com/2020-07-13.png
>
>
>   And I agree this is getting old and needs to be pulled off here and
> moved over to AMSAT to get to the bottom of this and take action.
>
>
> Kevin WA7FWF 19623
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)

From bruce at perens.com  Tue Jul 14 01:25:44 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 18:25:44 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Brief summary of the "unauthorized expenses" claim
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOuunHiPLjZjL4q2b_dWt32fst3Vw8mtUPwp+iBKgsDSFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANsNeaoAOL8BRBS8efmhNVC8-vQ3cWb3+uF2X1pkpe05=t2jFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1fdeda8fb65dcf349de22015c4600119@etczone.com>
	<CANsNeap=vWYZMOaQsmLHtu-asnSmf1O17faADiQgdTLgHk7OCg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOuunHiPLjZjL4q2b_dWt32fst3Vw8mtUPwp+iBKgsDSFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOtOgvJ4jET6=4FV9J44tMxtZEBDr-M-3Kdrsi7CHWRU_w@mail.gmail.com>

I don't actually understand why we are discussing whether they were
authorized. That is, at most, of tertiary importance. Of primary importance
would be: was this a good decision, and a good use of the organization's
funds, wherever they came from?

I also don't consider it relevant whether the funds were membership dues,
donations, or a grant. Although most grants are earmarked for a purpose, so
that is less likely.

Let's just talk about "was this smart, was it responsible, is it the kind
of decision I'd like to see from the board in the future?"

Thanks

Bruce

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 6:24 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:

> I don't actually understand why we are discussing whether they were
> authorized. That is, at most, of tertiary importance. Of primary importance
> would be: was this a good decision, and a good use of the organization's
> funds, wherever they came from?
>
> I also don't consider it relevant whether the funds were membership dues,
> donations, or a grant. Although most grants are earmarked for a purpose, so
> that is less likely.
>
> Let's just talk about "was this smart, was it responsible, is it the kind
> of decision I'd like to see from the board in the future?"
>
> Thanks
>
> Bruce
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 6:17 PM Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> Let me clarify:
>>
>> I said "the board said the expenses were authorized."
>>
>> I didn't say "the board directly authorized the expenses"
>>
>> The implication is that the officers authorized the expenses and the board
>> was OK with that.  And since it's up to the board to decide what the
>> officers can or can't authorize, the fact that they said that the expenses
>> were authorized should be sufficient.
>>
>> Rich
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:46 PM Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > But even in your own evaluation there are contradictions.
>> >
>> > Quote from your email: "If an expense went to the board for approval, it
>> > would show up in the
>> >   minutes of that board meeting."
>> >
>> > Further down your email: "- In this case, the members of the AMSAT board
>> > at the time said that the
>> >   expenses were authorized."
>> >
>> >
>> > Then, by your own evaluation of the by-laws, if the members of the board
>> > authorized the expenditures (second quote), shouldn't that authorization
>> > show up in the minutes of the board meeting? (first quote)
>> >
>> > Steve AI9IN
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
>> > Date: 07/13/20 15:25
>> > To: Amsat - BBs (AMSAT-BB at amsat.org)
>> > Subject: [amsat-bb] Brief summary of the "unauthorized expenses" claim
>> >
>> > First: I'm not a lawyer.  These are my observations only.
>> >
>> > This is what I learned over the past few days while researching the
>> claim
>> > that the AMSAT money spent on legal services related to the new
>> directors
>> > was "unauthorized".
>> >
>> >   - I read the AMSAT bylaws.  They are very readable, BTW - and not
>> long.
>> >   - The bylaws say that expenses can be authorized either by the board
>> >   itself or by the officers of AMSAT if the board delegates that
>> authority.
>> >   - If an expense went to the board for approval, it would show up in
>> the
>> >   minutes of that board meeting.
>> >   - If an expense were authorized by an officer, then it wouldn't show
>> up
>> >   in the minutes of a board meeting.
>> >   - The claim that the expenses were unauthorized was based on the
>> >   observation that there was no record in the board meeting minutes of
>> the
>> >   authorization.  However, as mentioned above, not everything has to go
>> to
>> >   the board for approval.  And that decision is up to the board itself.
>> >   - In this case, the members of the AMSAT board at the time said that
>> the
>> >   expenses were authorized.
>> >   - Since the board has the authority to authorize expenditures
>> (directly
>> >   or indirectly) and they say the expenses were authorized, that
>> indicates
>> > to
>> >   me that the expenses were authorized.
>> >
>> > Note: Michelle and Patrick were not members of the board when this
>> > happened.  They were analyzing this after the fact.
>> >
>> > Rich
>> > KD2CQ
>> > AMSAT Life Member
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions
>> > expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> > AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>

From bruce at perens.com  Tue Jul 14 01:40:27 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 18:40:27 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] A question
In-Reply-To: <f10c748d-ff5a-415e-b6f8-2e1e783181fb@yahoo.com>
References: <F1920021-98F0-4650-B305-74A7DB72521E@optonline.net>
	<f10c748d-ff5a-415e-b6f8-2e1e783181fb@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOvBcSM_DNpMsfdkEOy4z8HE1ntxTxPGTwD7hgLymTCNuA@mail.gmail.com>

I was definitely on moderation as a relatively new list member. I am
seeing  a delay in when my postings appear in the archive. This could be
moderation, or simply an artifact of when a cron job runs.

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 6:29 PM W3AB/GEO via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> They don't appear to be.
>
> ?___
> Sent from my two way wrist watch
> 73 de W3AB/GEO?
>
> On Jul 13, 2020, 15:22, at 15:22, Efrem Acosta via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >Is it true all posts now on this board are being held for approval by a
> >moderator?
> >
> >
> >
> >73 De W2CZ
> >Sent from my iPhone
> >_______________________________________________
> >Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >Opinions expressed
> >are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> >of AMSAT-NA.
> >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >program!
> >Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From jfitzgerald at alum.wpi.edu  Tue Jul 14 03:31:39 2020
From: jfitzgerald at alum.wpi.edu (Joseph B. Fitzgerald)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 03:31:39 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] amsat-bb now on emergency moderation.
Message-ID: <DM5PR22MB08252047EA27D19CF3B9F26D87610@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

The amsat-bb list has been placed in "Emergency Moderation" mode as of approximately 02:30 UTC Tuesday due to numerous violations of the Acceptable Use Policy for the AMSAT Public Mailing Lists.  

In relevant part:

"Strong disagreements on issues are inevitable, but the AMSAT mailing lists
are not the place for exchanges which become spiteful, unproductive exchanges. If you must have
a heated exchange, it should be conducted privately and not in public on a mailing list.
In addition, you agree that as a user of the AMSAT Lists, you will not ...communicate any .... vulgar, hateful ... material of any sort."


Outgoing mail from the AMSAT mail server is rate limited.  Recent unusually high list traffic has caused some delivery delays prior to the emergency moderation action made at 02:30 UTC.


Joe Fitzgerald KM1P
AMSAT IT 

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 14 04:17:40 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 21:17:40 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Large AZ/El disk rotors
In-Reply-To: <842251bf-e5a5-bce9-6779-5ccc81ff82ed@ollietech.com>
References: <842251bf-e5a5-bce9-6779-5ccc81ff82ed@ollietech.com>
Message-ID: <16130908-2800-41a0-9af4-120f85e50b76@yahoo.com>

Ollie,

Good question.

That's some serious mass you want to move, fiberglass or not. Which, IMHO, will require some expensive "motors" not to mention a support structure.

Please keep us posted with your progress. Pix would be nice too.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 13, 2020, 18:34, at 18:34, Ollie Eisman via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>Hi everyone,
>
>I would like to attach a solid 8' fiberglass dish to an az/el rotor 
>system.? Does anyone have any experience with either Alfa Spid Big 
>RAK/RAEL system or the Sub Lunar EME rotor that Green Heron sells?? 
>Curious to know how well they work, handle wind gusts, interface with a
>
>PC, etc.
>
>I like what M2 offers but their prices are a bit more than I can 
>afford.? I'm open to suggestions.
>
>73,
>Ollie AJ1O
>AMSAT #19698
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From w2ev at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 14 03:24:39 2020
From: w2ev at yahoo.com (Ev Tupis)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 03:24:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Candidate Statements
References: <1490885243.880947.1594697079768.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1490885243.880947.1594697079768@mail.yahoo.com>

Where would one go to learn who the candidates are and what they wish to accomplish if elected?


From n8fgv at usa.net  Tue Jul 14 02:51:22 2020
From: n8fgv at usa.net (Daniel Schultz)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 22:51:22 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Trim your messages
Message-ID: <772ygNcYw6272Set.1594695082@web08.cms.usa.net>

Would you all please trim the messages that you are replying too? There is no
need to quote more lines of text back to the -bb then you are writing
yourself. Better yet, don't quote anything at all, we can probably follow the
message thread by this point in the discussion. That would go a long way
toward raising the signal to noise ratio of the present discussion.

Dan N8FGV


From propgrinder at gmail.com  Tue Jul 14 13:21:43 2020
From: propgrinder at gmail.com (Bob Hammond)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 06:21:43 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] amsat-bb now on emergency moderation.
In-Reply-To: <DM5PR22MB08252047EA27D19CF3B9F26D87610@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM5PR22MB08252047EA27D19CF3B9F26D87610@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAKoB7OrtwrP_izOWuOS0wQQV8-DRFh7yQ61qhVnV7kSvfDBycw@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you!

Bob W7OTJ

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 8:43 PM Joseph B. Fitzgerald via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> The amsat-bb list has been placed in "Emergency Moderation" mode as of
> approximately 02:30 UTC Tuesday due to numerous violations of the
> Acceptable Use Policy for the AMSAT Public Mailing Lists.
>
> In relevant part:
>
> "Strong disagreements on issues are inevitable, but the AMSAT mailing lists
> are not the place for exchanges which become spiteful, unproductive
> exchanges. If you must have
> a heated exchange, it should be conducted privately and not in public on a
> mailing list.
> In addition, you agree that as a user of the AMSAT Lists, you will not
> ...communicate any .... vulgar, hateful ... material of any sort."
>
>
> Outgoing mail from the AMSAT mail server is rate limited.  Recent
> unusually high list traffic has caused some delivery delays prior to the
> emergency moderation action made at 02:30 UTC.
>
>
> Joe Fitzgerald KM1P
> AMSAT IT
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From ariss.w8aas at gmail.com  Tue Jul 14 14:06:59 2020
From: ariss.w8aas at gmail.com (Dave Taylor)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 10:06:59 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Candidate Statements
In-Reply-To: <1490885243.880947.1594697079768@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1490885243.880947.1594697079768.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1490885243.880947.1594697079768@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <59DD1D23-C70E-42E6-9379-867292733E64@gmail.com>

I expect it will be as in the past: members will receive a letter with ballot and candidate statements.

Dave Taylor, W8AAS
AMSAT member # 8974



> On Jul 13, 2020, at 11:24 PM, Ev Tupis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> Where would one go to learn who the candidates are and what they wish to accomplish if elected?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From ke4al at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 14 14:21:54 2020
From: ke4al at yahoo.com (Robert Bankston)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 14:21:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Candidate Statements
In-Reply-To: <1490885243.880947.1594697079768@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1490885243.880947.1594697079768.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1490885243.880947.1594697079768@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <812693345.1431162.1594736514535@mail.yahoo.com>

Ev,
Candidate statements will be mailed with ballots.? Some of the candidates have created web pages, and they are free to post a link here on the BB.
73,
Robert Bankston, KE4ALVice-President, User ServicesRadio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT) 

    On Tuesday, July 14, 2020, 08:41:42 AM CDT, Ev Tupis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 Where would one go to learn who the candidates are and what they wish to accomplish if elected?

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From robert.machale at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 14 14:23:07 2020
From: robert.machale at yahoo.com (Robert MacHale)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 14:23:07 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
References: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>

Can I suggest moving AMSAT member communications from eMail to Slack?

When I taught at UC Riverside last year - we used Slack to communicate with students. The tech companies I have worked with in Southern California have used Slack for many years. Recently, I noticed the Parrot Disco (RC Glider) club uses Slack to communicate with volunteers and members:

https://github.com/uavpal/disco4g?

The benefit to Slack is having channels for each topic. In this case, discussion about Board Membership can be in it's own channel. People who are not interested are not required to read.

Each technology can have it's own channel. Each project can have it's own channel. And, members can find each other easily.
This current eMail subscription for all things creates a pain point - encouraging everyone to read everything.
I highly recommend the Board of Directors evaluate Slack as a replacement for eMail; the corporate cost per user in low compared to value: excellent ROI. Remember, eMail subscriptions became popular in the 1980s. This protocol is entirely outdated and outmoded for conversations today. Keep in mind, the Medium is the message - another reminder AmSat has become outdated and outmoded and not keeping up with the times.
Slack has been a positive and transforming tool employed on many projects I have worked with recently.
Sincerely,

Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration


From w3ab at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 14 15:23:44 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 08:23:44 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ade3b87b-fad6-41c7-bd53-ac42baaabfe0@yahoo.com>

IMHO, that bears merit.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 14, 2020, 07:50, at 07:50, Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>Can I suggest moving AMSAT member communications from eMail to Slack?
>
>When I taught at UC Riverside last year - we used Slack to communicate
>with students. The tech companies I have worked with in Southern
>California have used Slack for many years. Recently, I noticed the
>Parrot Disco (RC Glider) club uses Slack to communicate with volunteers
>and members:
>
>https://github.com/uavpal/disco4g?
>
>The benefit to Slack is having channels for each topic. In this case,
>discussion about Board Membership can be in it's own channel. People
>who are not interested are not required to read.
>
>Each technology can have it's own channel. Each project can have it's
>own channel. And, members can find each other easily.
>This current eMail subscription for all things creates a pain point -
>encouraging everyone to read everything.
>I highly recommend the Board of Directors evaluate Slack as a
>replacement for eMail; the corporate cost per user in low compared to
>value: excellent ROI. Remember, eMail subscriptions became popular in
>the 1980s. This protocol is entirely outdated and outmoded for
>conversations today. Keep in mind, the Medium is the message - another
>reminder AmSat has become outdated and outmoded and not keeping up with
>the times.
>Slack has been a positive and transforming tool employed on many
>projects I have worked with recently.
>Sincerely,
>
>Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
>.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
>. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space
>Exploration
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From eli.caul at sonic.com  Tue Jul 14 16:37:26 2020
From: eli.caul at sonic.com (Eli Caul)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 16:37:26 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BYAPR20MB2326EEA3EEDE3DC8F5C3E6EB98610@BYAPR20MB2326.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

In my corporate experience, you need to be very careful with these solutions - -It sounds great at first, but what ends up happening is you create so many sub groups in an effort to cover every interest that you end up with a big splintered environment in which you can?t find anything.  

Also, IM solutions like Teams, Slack etc are really trying to solve a different problem.   They are great for short sprints, projects, service outages and the like, but the messages tend to be very ephemeral.

We tried this in a few of the car clubs I participate in, and the people who suffer the most are casual visitors.    They read digests, or just browse the list a few times a month and they get caught up.  

In an IM environment, it seems that you have to be on it every day or else things get lost in the sands of time.

We run a hybrid solution at work that might work well for AMSAT.   Leave the mailing list(s) basically as is, and then set up a Slack type solution for special projects, or intense conversations like the recent thread re: Amsat management and direction.  

Sharing my experience, HTH, etc etc 

'73 de KK6ZHZ

- Eli Caul

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2020 07:23
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message

Can I suggest moving AMSAT member communications from eMail to Slack?

When I taught at UC Riverside last year - we used Slack to communicate with students. The tech companies I have worked with in Southern California have used Slack for many years. Recently, I noticed the Parrot Disco (RC Glider) club uses Slack to communicate with volunteers and members:

https://github.com/uavpal/disco4g?

The benefit to Slack is having channels for each topic. In this case, discussion about Board Membership can be in it's own channel. People who are not interested are not required to read.

Each technology can have it's own channel. Each project can have it's own channel. And, members can find each other easily.
This current eMail subscription for all things creates a pain point - encouraging everyone to read everything.
I highly recommend the Board of Directors evaluate Slack as a replacement for eMail; the corporate cost per user in low compared to value: excellent ROI. Remember, eMail subscriptions became popular in the 1980s. This protocol is entirely outdated and outmoded for conversations today. Keep in mind, the Medium is the message - another reminder AmSat has become outdated and outmoded and not keeping up with the times.
Slack has been a positive and transforming tool employed on many projects I have worked with recently.
Sincerely,

Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict .?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From twjones85 at gmail.com  Tue Jul 14 17:01:24 2020
From: twjones85 at gmail.com (Tanner Jones)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 12:01:24 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR20MB2326EEA3EEDE3DC8F5C3E6EB98610@BYAPR20MB2326.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BYAPR20MB2326EEA3EEDE3DC8F5C3E6EB98610@BYAPR20MB2326.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <54F7E81A-85C9-4687-80D0-1557114F6284@gmail.com>

From maintaining an email reflector (which I prefer over an IM app or whatever), groups.io allows subgroups which is basically different channels. 

Still supports individual messages, full featured digest, plain digest, or daily summary.

Just another idea.

73,
Tanner

W9TWJ
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 14, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Eli Caul via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?In my corporate experience, you need to be very careful with these solutions - -It sounds great at first, but what ends up happening is you create so many sub groups in an effort to cover every interest that you end up with a big splintered environment in which you can?t find anything.  
> 
> Also, IM solutions like Teams, Slack etc are really trying to solve a different problem.   They are great for short sprints, projects, service outages and the like, but the messages tend to be very ephemeral.
> 
> We tried this in a few of the car clubs I participate in, and the people who suffer the most are casual visitors.    They read digests, or just browse the list a few times a month and they get caught up.  
> 
> In an IM environment, it seems that you have to be on it every day or else things get lost in the sands of time.
> 
> We run a hybrid solution at work that might work well for AMSAT.   Leave the mailing list(s) basically as is, and then set up a Slack type solution for special projects, or intense conversations like the recent thread re: Amsat management and direction.  
> 
> Sharing my experience, HTH, etc etc 
> 
> '73 de KK6ZHZ
> 
> - Eli Caul
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2020 07:23
> To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
> 
> Can I suggest moving AMSAT member communications from eMail to Slack?
> 
> When I taught at UC Riverside last year - we used Slack to communicate with students. The tech companies I have worked with in Southern California have used Slack for many years. Recently, I noticed the Parrot Disco (RC Glider) club uses Slack to communicate with volunteers and members:
> 
> https://github.com/uavpal/disco4g 
> 
> The benefit to Slack is having channels for each topic. In this case, discussion about Board Membership can be in it's own channel. People who are not interested are not required to read.
> 
> Each technology can have it's own channel. Each project can have it's own channel. And, members can find each other easily.
> This current eMail subscription for all things creates a pain point - encouraging everyone to read everything.
> I highly recommend the Board of Directors evaluate Slack as a replacement for eMail; the corporate cost per user in low compared to value: excellent ROI. Remember, eMail subscriptions became popular in the 1980s. This protocol is entirely outdated and outmoded for conversations today. Keep in mind, the Medium is the message - another reminder AmSat has become outdated and outmoded and not keeping up with the times.
> Slack has been a positive and transforming tool employed on many projects I have worked with recently.
> Sincerely,
> 
> Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License. http://www.aprsat.com/predict . http://www.spaceCommunicator.club . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From ciemon at gmail.com  Tue Jul 14 17:04:33 2020
From: ciemon at gmail.com (Ciemon Dunville)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 18:04:33 +0100
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <ade3b87b-fad6-41c7-bd53-ac42baaabfe0@yahoo.com>
References: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
	<ade3b87b-fad6-41c7-bd53-ac42baaabfe0@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVD89kTzAqdKPvEQm+y7UtWsRFNW7Vr=kkz-A2+no-FwehUwg@mail.gmail.com>

Good luck with that.

I too think that email is too slow and cumbersome for conversations these
days so I set up a Discord server and whilst there was an initial influx of
people there are usually only about 10 consistently there these days.

I've set up extra channels for topics and countries, there could me more
but it would seem that the AMSAT crowd are content with the way things are.

Should you want a look at the Discord server the invitation link is
https://discord.gg/S8M9NP2

73
Ciemon
G0TRT

From johnbrier at gmail.com  Tue Jul 14 17:30:10 2020
From: johnbrier at gmail.com (John Brier)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 13:30:10 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR20MB2326EEA3EEDE3DC8F5C3E6EB98610@BYAPR20MB2326.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
	<BYAPR20MB2326EEA3EEDE3DC8F5C3E6EB98610@BYAPR20MB2326.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CALn0fKNpR1YyXApNCnOfpgLOMgVzL4T_JUEW+jV-ehiqH6wLdw@mail.gmail.com>

This increased activity won't go on indefinitely. If people can't
handle it they can switch to digest mode, filter it, or temporarily
unsubscribe, as some have. I don't think a big change like Slack is
necessary. Personally, I don't use it anywhere else so I'm not likely
to start running it just for AMSAT stuff.

73, John Brier KG4AKV

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 1:05 PM Eli Caul via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> In my corporate experience, you need to be very careful with these solutions - -It sounds great at first, but what ends up happening is you create so many sub groups in an effort to cover every interest that you end up with a big splintered environment in which you can?t find anything.
>
> Also, IM solutions like Teams, Slack etc are really trying to solve a different problem.   They are great for short sprints, projects, service outages and the like, but the messages tend to be very ephemeral.
>
> We tried this in a few of the car clubs I participate in, and the people who suffer the most are casual visitors.    They read digests, or just browse the list a few times a month and they get caught up.
>
> In an IM environment, it seems that you have to be on it every day or else things get lost in the sands of time.
>
> We run a hybrid solution at work that might work well for AMSAT.   Leave the mailing list(s) basically as is, and then set up a Slack type solution for special projects, or intense conversations like the recent thread re: Amsat management and direction.
>
> Sharing my experience, HTH, etc etc
>
> '73 de KK6ZHZ
>
> - Eli Caul
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2020 07:23
> To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
>
> Can I suggest moving AMSAT member communications from eMail to Slack?
>
> When I taught at UC Riverside last year - we used Slack to communicate with students. The tech companies I have worked with in Southern California have used Slack for many years. Recently, I noticed the Parrot Disco (RC Glider) club uses Slack to communicate with volunteers and members:
>
> https://github.com/uavpal/disco4g
>
> The benefit to Slack is having channels for each topic. In this case, discussion about Board Membership can be in it's own channel. People who are not interested are not required to read.
>
> Each technology can have it's own channel. Each project can have it's own channel. And, members can find each other easily.
> This current eMail subscription for all things creates a pain point - encouraging everyone to read everything.
> I highly recommend the Board of Directors evaluate Slack as a replacement for eMail; the corporate cost per user in low compared to value: excellent ROI. Remember, eMail subscriptions became popular in the 1980s. This protocol is entirely outdated and outmoded for conversations today. Keep in mind, the Medium is the message - another reminder AmSat has become outdated and outmoded and not keeping up with the times.
> Slack has been a positive and transforming tool employed on many projects I have worked with recently.
> Sincerely,
>
> Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License. http://www.aprsat.com/predict . http://www.spaceCommunicator.club . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From propgrinder at gmail.com  Tue Jul 14 16:14:05 2020
From: propgrinder at gmail.com (Bob Hammond)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 09:14:05 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAKoB7OpFx-7ENJXTkUWVnGz++ySE4fLB8hxgxzRdoSJMJGcPEA@mail.gmail.com>

I disagree regarding the use of Slack instead of email.  To wit:  ?With
email you know you probably have time to read through a bunch of messages
and have a day to respond,?. (quote from
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/slack-ruining-work )

Slack is IM.  I'd rather have the AMSAT BB email.

Bob W7OTJ

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 8:01 AM Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Can I suggest moving AMSAT member communications from eMail to Slack?
>
> When I taught at UC Riverside last year - we used Slack to communicate
> with students. The tech companies I have worked with in Southern California
> have used Slack for many years. Recently, I noticed the Parrot Disco (RC
> Glider) club uses Slack to communicate with volunteers and members:
>
> https://github.com/uavpal/disco4g
>
> The benefit to Slack is having channels for each topic. In this case,
> discussion about Board Membership can be in it's own channel. People who
> are not interested are not required to read.
>
> Each technology can have it's own channel. Each project can have it's own
> channel. And, members can find each other easily.
> This current eMail subscription for all things creates a pain point -
> encouraging everyone to read everything.
> I highly recommend the Board of Directors evaluate Slack as a replacement
> for eMail; the corporate cost per user in low compared to value: excellent
> ROI. Remember, eMail subscriptions became popular in the 1980s. This
> protocol is entirely outdated and outmoded for conversations today. Keep in
> mind, the Medium is the message - another reminder AmSat has become
> outdated and outmoded and not keeping up with the times.
> Slack has been a positive and transforming tool employed on many projects
> I have worked with recently.
> Sincerely,
>
> Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License. http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> . http://www.spaceCommunicator.club
> . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space
> Exploration
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From bruce at perens.com  Tue Jul 14 17:01:13 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 10:01:13 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR20MB2326EEA3EEDE3DC8F5C3E6EB98610@BYAPR20MB2326.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
	<BYAPR20MB2326EEA3EEDE3DC8F5C3E6EB98610@BYAPR20MB2326.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOtaUUffsY_gohcq=B=gen+3+8=Psq+24eALUGE=yrVQkA@mail.gmail.com>

Sigh. The main advantage seems to be shutting out what you don't wish to
see. IMO members have a duty to involve themselves in the organization,
rather than changing the channel as if this was the annual PBS telethon and
they watch for free all year. AMSAT is not a public utility, paying your
dues once a year and going back to being on the air is not sufficient to
keep the satellites flying.

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 9:53 AM Eli Caul via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> In my corporate experience, you need to be very careful with these
> solutions - -It sounds great at first, but what ends up happening is you
> create so many sub groups in an effort to cover every interest that you end
> up with a big splintered environment in which you can?t find anything.
>
> Also, IM solutions like Teams, Slack etc are really trying to solve a
> different problem.   They are great for short sprints, projects, service
> outages and the like, but the messages tend to be very ephemeral.
>
> We tried this in a few of the car clubs I participate in, and the people
> who suffer the most are casual visitors.    They read digests, or just
> browse the list a few times a month and they get caught up.
>
> In an IM environment, it seems that you have to be on it every day or else
> things get lost in the sands of time.
>
> We run a hybrid solution at work that might work well for AMSAT.   Leave
> the mailing list(s) basically as is, and then set up a Slack type solution
> for special projects, or intense conversations like the recent thread re:
> Amsat management and direction.
>
> Sharing my experience, HTH, etc etc
>
> '73 de KK6ZHZ
>
> - Eli Caul
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Robert MacHale
> via AMSAT-BB
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2020 07:23
> To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
>
> Can I suggest moving AMSAT member communications from eMail to Slack?
>
> When I taught at UC Riverside last year - we used Slack to communicate
> with students. The tech companies I have worked with in Southern California
> have used Slack for many years. Recently, I noticed the Parrot Disco (RC
> Glider) club uses Slack to communicate with volunteers and members:
>
> https://github.com/uavpal/disco4g
>
> The benefit to Slack is having channels for each topic. In this case,
> discussion about Board Membership can be in it's own channel. People who
> are not interested are not required to read.
>
> Each technology can have it's own channel. Each project can have it's own
> channel. And, members can find each other easily.
> This current eMail subscription for all things creates a pain point -
> encouraging everyone to read everything.
> I highly recommend the Board of Directors evaluate Slack as a replacement
> for eMail; the corporate cost per user in low compared to value: excellent
> ROI. Remember, eMail subscriptions became popular in the 1980s. This
> protocol is entirely outdated and outmoded for conversations today. Keep in
> mind, the Medium is the message - another reminder AmSat has become
> outdated and outmoded and not keeping up with the times.
> Slack has been a positive and transforming tool employed on many projects
> I have worked with recently.
> Sincerely,
>
> Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License. http://www.aprsat.com/predict .
> http://www.spaceCommunicator.club . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in
> Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to
> all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 14 17:12:59 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (GEO Badger)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 17:12:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR20MB2326EEA3EEDE3DC8F5C3E6EB98610@BYAPR20MB2326.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
	<BYAPR20MB2326EEA3EEDE3DC8F5C3E6EB98610@BYAPR20MB2326.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1551611829.1550652.1594746779319@mail.yahoo.com>

Eli,
You raise a valid point that I really had not considered. My experience has been work related where the comms are short and project related, sometimes lively.
But IMHO, a different approach should be considered with a hybrid being possible.
---? 
 Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side??
73 de W3AB/GEO ??? 

 http://www.w3ab.org

You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out". 

    On Tuesday, July 14, 2020, 09:53:31 AM PDT, Eli Caul via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 In my corporate experience, you need to be very careful with these solutions - -It sounds great at first, but what ends up happening is you create so many sub groups in an effort to cover every interest that you end up with a big splintered environment in which you can?t find anything.? 

Also, IM solutions like Teams, Slack etc are really trying to solve a different problem.? They are great for short sprints, projects, service outages and the like, but the messages tend to be very ephemeral.

We tried this in a few of the car clubs I participate in, and the people who suffer the most are casual visitors.? ? They read digests, or just browse the list a few times a month and they get caught up.? 

In an IM environment, it seems that you have to be on it every day or else things get lost in the sands of time.

We run a hybrid solution at work that might work well for AMSAT.? Leave the mailing list(s) basically as is, and then set up a Slack type solution for special projects, or intense conversations like the recent thread re: Amsat management and direction.? 

Sharing my experience, HTH, etc etc 

'73 de KK6ZHZ

- Eli Caul

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2020 07:23
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message

Can I suggest moving AMSAT member communications from eMail to Slack?

When I taught at UC Riverside last year - we used Slack to communicate with students. The tech companies I have worked with in Southern California have used Slack for many years. Recently, I noticed the Parrot Disco (RC Glider) club uses Slack to communicate with volunteers and members:

https://github.com/uavpal/disco4g?

The benefit to Slack is having channels for each topic. In this case, discussion about Board Membership can be in it's own channel. People who are not interested are not required to read.

Each technology can have it's own channel. Each project can have it's own channel. And, members can find each other easily.
This current eMail subscription for all things creates a pain point - encouraging everyone to read everything.
I highly recommend the Board of Directors evaluate Slack as a replacement for eMail; the corporate cost per user in low compared to value: excellent ROI. Remember, eMail subscriptions became popular in the 1980s. This protocol is entirely outdated and outmoded for conversations today. Keep in mind, the Medium is the message - another reminder AmSat has become outdated and outmoded and not keeping up with the times.
Slack has been a positive and transforming tool employed on many projects I have worked with recently.
Sincerely,

Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict .?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Tue Jul 14 17:38:26 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 10:38:26 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR20MB2326EEA3EEDE3DC8F5C3E6EB98610@BYAPR20MB2326.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
	<BYAPR20MB2326EEA3EEDE3DC8F5C3E6EB98610@BYAPR20MB2326.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2XHuuKq_EFHAu2OdqhMAq0kVjqE8E5_4=4CWvHQTtHj9A@mail.gmail.com>

We could have both.

They address different needs, I think.

Clayton said he wanted an AMSAT Slack a couple months ago. I strongly
supported him and gave him all the advice I had.

Slack has drawbacks. You can't block people, so you need a strong and
enforced community standard.

The owner can see everything. Everything! Choose admins wisely.

Even with nonprofit 85% discount, a lot of users will create expenses per
month.

It is best in class for collaboration.

It works best when it's single project focused, but a Slack for an entire
organization can work out well too.

You can manually export all messages, but otherwise its opaque and
proprietary.

Another option is Discord. There is at least one amsat discord server.
Details were posted here not that long ago.

An open source alternative is Matrix.

-Michelle W5NYV

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 10:06 Eli Caul via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> In my corporate experience, you need to be very careful with these
> solutions - -It sounds great at first, but what ends up happening is you
> create so many sub groups in an effort to cover every interest that you end
> up with a big splintered environment in which you can?t find anything.
>
> Also, IM solutions like Teams, Slack etc are really trying to solve a
> different problem.   They are great for short sprints, projects, service
> outages and the like, but the messages tend to be very ephemeral.
>
> We tried this in a few of the car clubs I participate in, and the people
> who suffer the most are casual visitors.    They read digests, or just
> browse the list a few times a month and they get caught up.
>
> In an IM environment, it seems that you have to be on it every day or else
> things get lost in the sands of time.
>
> We run a hybrid solution at work that might work well for AMSAT.   Leave
> the mailing list(s) basically as is, and then set up a Slack type solution
> for special projects, or intense conversations like the recent thread re:
> Amsat management and direction.
>
> Sharing my experience, HTH, etc etc
>
> '73 de KK6ZHZ
>
> - Eli Caul
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Robert MacHale
> via AMSAT-BB
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2020 07:23
> To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
>
> Can I suggest moving AMSAT member communications from eMail to Slack?
>
> When I taught at UC Riverside last year - we used Slack to communicate
> with students. The tech companies I have worked with in Southern California
> have used Slack for many years. Recently, I noticed the Parrot Disco (RC
> Glider) club uses Slack to communicate with volunteers and members:
>
> https://github.com/uavpal/disco4g
>
> The benefit to Slack is having channels for each topic. In this case,
> discussion about Board Membership can be in it's own channel. People who
> are not interested are not required to read.
>
> Each technology can have it's own channel. Each project can have it's own
> channel. And, members can find each other easily.
> This current eMail subscription for all things creates a pain point -
> encouraging everyone to read everything.
> I highly recommend the Board of Directors evaluate Slack as a replacement
> for eMail; the corporate cost per user in low compared to value: excellent
> ROI. Remember, eMail subscriptions became popular in the 1980s. This
> protocol is entirely outdated and outmoded for conversations today. Keep in
> mind, the Medium is the message - another reminder AmSat has become
> outdated and outmoded and not keeping up with the times.
> Slack has been a positive and transforming tool employed on many projects
> I have worked with recently.
> Sincerely,
>
> Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License. http://www.aprsat.com/predict .
> http://www.spaceCommunicator.club . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in
> Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to
> all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From ke4al at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 14 17:53:22 2020
From: ke4al at yahoo.com (Robert Bankston)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 17:53:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Emergency Moderation Update.
References: <651723002.1561595.1594749202514.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <651723002.1561595.1594749202514@mail.yahoo.com>

As you may or may not be aware, our IT department activated the Emergency Moderation feature last night.
??
I am restoring AMSAT-BB back to full functionality; however I offer you this stern warning.? If you violate AMSAT's Acceptable Use Policy, you will be individually moderated.? This will serve as your first warning.? A second offense will result in permanent removal from the list.
??
Subscribing to the AMSAT-BB is a privilege, not a right.? If you feel free to yell, scream, attack, and/or make false/baseless accusations, do it in your own back yard.? It will not be tolerated here.
??
Myself and my volunteer moderators are not here to babysit you.? Read the AUP and understand this List is for constructive discussion, appropriate in content and respectful of the other readers.
??
https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/AMSAT_AUP_061819.pdf)and understand
??

? Robert Bankston, KE4AL
? Vice-President, User Services
? Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)

From marinesvcs at gmail.com  Tue Jul 14 04:51:46 2020
From: marinesvcs at gmail.com (Paul F. Merrill)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 21:51:46 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read (Bruce Perens)
Message-ID: <CAM42371ZxBrpty-zcxaATK32A0SsKBDTMY-oaRvqFxc9Jzbh4w@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Bruce - I responded to you privately - it took effort on your part to
> choose to add the entire group to your reply.  By doing so, you've
> extablished, for me at least, your level of trustworthiness and integrity
> in this discussion.


    Paul

>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 11:09:12 -0700
> From: Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com>
> To: "Paul F. Merrill" <marinesvcs at gmail.com>, AMSAT BB
>         <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAK2MWOv13HXELW1kRJiZWGo2GUTBXgOV39atn5xVWY5SrKztzw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> The point I was trying to make was that by posing Robert's Rules as the
> tool of unsavory individuals, you seem to pose all rules that way. I think
> we should both agree that corporate directors should know their bylaws. It
> was my experience that Clayton did not read them before taking on operating
> the AMSAT election. AMSAT had to be told that it had a responsibility to
> provide addresses to the candidates for campaigning. The bylaws also call
> for the organizations publications to be available for campaigning - which
> is still not being fulfilled.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bruce
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 12:31 AM Paul F. Merrill <marinesvcs at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I know what they are.  It was an example, perhaps too subtle, of the
> > continually-plumbed depths of human dipshittery.
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 23:01 Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Paul,
> >>
> >> Roberts Rules are regarding parliamentary procedure. AMSAT's bylaws are
> >> at
> >>
> https://www.amsat.org/bylaws-of-the-radio-amateur-satellite-corporation/
> >> . They do not specify parliamentary procedure. They are about
> >> responsibilities of a director, elections, etc. And if you have the
> choice,
> >> Roberts is an antique, good parliamentarians use Sturgis.
> >>
> >> Bruce
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:12 PM Paul F. Merrill via AMSAT-BB <
> >> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I agree that this mailing list has strayed from its strongest
> >>> contribution:
> >>> satellite information, discussion, and mentoring.
> >>>
> >>> I come from, and have been on the BOD of, a professional organization
> >>> for a
> >>> number of years now.
> >>>
> >>> FWIW, I know too well that an organization often lawyers up to protect
> >>> itself, and in our issues, our attorney was engaged to act solely on
> >>> behalf
> >>> of the Organization and not necessarily current management.
> >>>
> >>> This thread has turned in to a long, ugly diatribe filled with
> >>> accusations,
> >>> counter-accusations, and painfully-obvious shills.  I am a
> >>> recently-renewed
> >>> member who doesn?t have a dog in the fight, so I just want what?s best
> >>> for
> >>> AMSAT.
> >>>
> >>> Sadly, the stereotypes are starting to show - the members who
> contribute
> >>> nothing but want to tear down those ?In power,? the members who
> >>> contribute
> >>> nothing and don?t want anyone to make waves, and the few who actually
> do
> >>> anything.  As a number of people have commented, working in a
> non-profit
> >>> or
> >>> unpaid leadership role is utterly thankless, which is lost on many
> >>> people -
> >>> especially those who have never labored in this sort of endeavor.
> >>>
> >>> My favorite story from our times of trouble is when our Parliamentarian
> >>> said, ?Roberts Rules are the last refuge of a scoundrel.  Grown men and
> >>> women should be able to comport themselves reasonably...but then I?d be
> >>> out
> >>> of a job.?   I?m taking a little license with his exact words, but the
> >>> sentiment, along with my experience, formed my native distrust of those
> >>> who
> >>> are right and everyone and everything before them is wrong.
> So...there?s
> >>> my bias.  I will examine that, and all the information I can before I
> >>> vote.  I hope everyone else will take the time and expend the effort to
> >>> vote as intelligently as they can.
> >>>
> >>> My overriding guidance to my Association is that we contribute to the
> >>> group
> >>> so that we all benefit from the group.  A strong organization should
> >>> outlive us.
> >>>
> >>> Personally, I can?t wait to vote and hopefully put a fork in this.
> >>>
> >>> Paul / W7IV
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ????????-
> >>>
> >>> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 19:27:24 -0700
> >>> From: "Daron Wilson" <daron at wilson.org>
> >>> To: "'AMSAT BB'" <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> >>> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
> >>> Message-ID: <00b501d658bd$26119cc0$7234d640$@org>
> >>> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="utf-8"
> >>>
> >>> Is there a bulletin board that discusses amateur radio satellites
> >>> operations still?   Asking for a friend.  This is getting old.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Daron N7HQR
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >>> Opinions expressed
> >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> >>> AMSAT-NA.
> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >>> program!
> >>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>>
> >>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 12:13:46 -0700
> From: Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com>
> To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Why we are having this big unpleasant argument on
>         your satellite mailing list
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAK2MWOsL+EO6q3QnLjL395uSeLZR8QnkUuD9q3nJ+O4e7Kvytw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Most of you are members of AMSAT. IMO the organization has some serious
> problems, and as members it is your duty to steer the organization with
> your votes. That means that you should remain aware of what is going on and
> you should make an informed vote. The satellite discussions go on, mostly
> uninterrupted, all year. A short break for politics is not unreasonable,
> and acrimonious discussion is to be expected when we take that break.
>
> Organisations are run by people who would not be doing the work if they did
> not have strong emotions about it. And they all have their own failings.
> Unfortunately, volunteer non-profit directors (and many public ones in big
> corporations) never learn a critical skill of democracy: *how to deal
> properly with opposition. *That is the root of what we are arguing about
> now. Opposition are not the enemy! Yet, they are clearly being treated as
> such. They are simply people who would reform the organization or take it
> in a different direction from the incumbents.
>
> In this case, Michelle and Patrick, before they were elected, were the
> loyal opposition - dedicated to a better organization, and deeply troubled
> by the decisions and conduct of the incumbent board. The incumbent's
> response was not to work with the opposition, but to hunker down and use
> lawyers. To the incumbent's great distress, the very same people got sent
> to the board by the membership! Leading to more lawyers. IMO the incumbents
> should have read this as a signal from the membership, rather than doubling
> down their resistance.
>
> The sad reality is that the newly-elected directors have never been allowed
> to function as directors. You should be concerned, since they are the
> people whom you elected to represent you. The main means used to disable
> your elected representatives has been refusal by the incumbents to hold
> board meetings. This refusal is almost total, with exactly *one* meeting
> being held after the organization's annual convention.
>
> The second means used to disenfranchise the newly-elected directors was
> that the incumbents withheld information which a director would generally
> be expected to have access to. As it happened, this information was at
> least in part discussion of those very same people, and contracting of
> legal counsel in a process against them.
>
> Every board has the right to legal counsel. But it's expensive, and must be
> used wisely. This was not a wise use. A wise use would have been to engage
> the opposition rather than to hunker down.
>
> One very large cause of all of this is that the same people have been
> running AMSAT for a very long time, and it becomes an echo chamber after a
> while - the us-vs-them mentality of the board vs. the opposition - but
> really the board vs. everyone else - becomes self-reinforcing.
>
> This is obviously wrong for the organization. The solution is simple, and
> every organization needs it: *regular turn-over of the people in the
> organization's leadership. *Not the stratification that we currently have.
>
> You can fix this by electing more new blood to the board.
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Bruce
>
> --
> Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
> :-)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 15:06:31 -0400
> From: Efrem Acosta <W2CZ at optonline.net>
> To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb] A question
> Message-ID: <F1920021-98F0-4650-B305-74A7DB72521E at optonline.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Is it true all posts now on this board are being held for approval by a
> moderator?
>
>
>
> 73 De W2CZ
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 12:45:19 -0700
> From: Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com>
> To: David Swanson <dave at druidnetworks.com>
> Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
> Message-ID:
>         <CAK2MWOv-v8yj5NwO7XKz=
> nwxb+p1u-7FUF+fTJUKuNvQ7BPP7g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> David,
>
> My tweet was NOT deleted, and is still on twitter at
> https://twitter.com/BrucePerens/status/1154844208458416128
> As stated repeatedly, both by myself and Michelle, I did not handle the
> mailing list, she did. Which was 100% her right as a candidate.
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Bruce
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 11:26 AM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > It's always fun to remind folks tripping over their own feat lying that
> the
> > internet is forever. From a Bruce Perens Tweet on July 13, 2020:
> >
> > "Please see my letter on the web, or the paper copy I've mailed to
> everyone
> > one of you".
> >
> > Of course the original tweet was deleted, but the wayback machine never
> > forgets. Don't Believe me? http://druidnetworks.com/2020-07-13.png
> >
> > If you still think the membership list wasn't compromised, I just heard
> > Director Thompson will be auctioning off their ocean front property in
> > Arizona to all the members this year to raise funds for their microwave,
> > digital only, strictly open source crowd funded, vegan, social justice
> > aware cubesat launch to Proxima Centauri. Of course this launch will only
> > come after 10 years of ground station development, but fueled with enough
> > hopes, dreams and promises it will become a reality!
> >
> > For the rest of us who actually want to keep amateur radio in (real)
> space
> > and are disgusted at the violations of privacy that occured by 3rd
> parties
> > working to get Director Thompson and Director Stoddard elected, well, you
> > should know what to do.
> >
> > -Dave, KG5CCI
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:24 AM Michelle Thompson <
> > mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > No database went anywhere except to candidates. This is allowed in the
> > > bylaws.
> > >
> > > Then, an automated bulk mail printing server was used. I recommended
> the
> > > company to Brennan Price for this year's mailing. Good service,
> > > inexpensive.
> > >
> > > Return addresses don't magically transfer information.
> > >
> > > -Michelle W5NYV
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 04:32 David Swanson <dave at druidnetworks.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Spin Spin Spin. The simple truth here is Director Thompson took the
> > AMSAT
> > >> member database, and handed it over to a 3rd party competing entity
> for
> > the
> > >> purpose of solicitation. I know I did not give ORI my home address,
> yet
> > ORI
> > >> sent me a letter. This was a violation of my privacy, and for AMSAT
> > >> members living in the EU, this was a violation of the law. Any attempt
> > to
> > >> explain this away is just more lies and deceit from Director Thompson
> > about
> > >> the shady practices they have engaged in over the past few years. As I
> > keep
> > >> saying, this isn't a one time thing, this is a pattern of
> > >> reprehensible behavior that is unbecoming of an elected position and
> > this
> > >> community. Director Thompson and Director Stoddard should resign.
> > >>
> > >> -Dave, KG5CCI
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:33 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
> > >> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Yes, I can.
> > >>>
> > >>> That part of Clayton's letter is wrong and has been repeatedly
> > clarified
> > >>> before. Including at the 2019 annual board meeting, where Tom Clark
> > asked
> > >>> me about it, as part of the record.
> > >>>
> > >>> Clayton Coleman was secretary in 2019.
> > >>>
> > >>> He ran the election.
> > >>>
> > >>> He decided that candidate statements were limited in length to 350
> > words,
> > >>> would be subject to editorial control by AMSAT, and could not include
> > >>> links. These new rules were given to us right before the 4th of July
> > >>> holiday with a deadline of the 7th.
> > >>>
> > >>> This is different than any election before, where statements went
> > >>> directly
> > >>> to the printer from the candidate, were not limited in length, and no
> > one
> > >>> from AMSAT leadership (who might be running for reelection
> themselves)
> > >>> had
> > >>> any control over the content of their challengers' statements.
> > >>>
> > >>> We got these rules right before ballots went out. We (four
> challengers)
> > >>> already had normal-sized statements on the web and they had been up
> six
> > >>> weeks at that point. Those were the ones we wanted to use, and link
> to.
> > >>>
> > >>> We knew that as candidates, we had the right to request the mailing
> > list,
> > >>> and send our own statements, independent of the ballot.
> > >>>
> > >>> I requested the address list and got the DBASE4 export.
> > >>>
> > >>> Bruce Perens had already written a letter of support and distributed
> it
> > >>> widely on the web. It introduced us and included our four full bios
> and
> > >>> statements.
> > >>>
> > >>> I asked Bruce if we could use his letter in the mailing. He said yes.
> > >>> Since
> > >>> he was President of Open Research Institute at the time, he wanted
> the
> > >>> return address to not be his private home address, but a business
> > >>> address.
> > >>> That was ORI's address. He was the author of the endorsement, so I
> used
> > >>> his
> > >>> preferred return address.
> > >>>
> > >>> I converted the DBASE4 to a more useful format, fixed the 50 or so
> > >>> undeliverable addresses, and found an inexpensive printer. Then I
> sent
> > >>> the
> > >>> letter from Bruce to the printer, with the bios and statements.
> > >>>
> > >>> That turned out to be a good thing. Bios and statements were not
> > included
> > >>> with the ballots mailed out, at all.
> > >>>
> > >>> If we had not sent the letter, then name recognition would be the
> > primary
> > >>> factor. We were running against well-known people.
> > >>>
> > >>> We complained about this. It was unusual departure from the past and
> > >>> seemed
> > >>> set up to let leadership benefit from being incumbents.
> > >>>
> > >>> The original proposal from Clayton was for an electronic only ballot.
> > >>> Patrick said that the bylaws were a bit clunky here and it did need
> to
> > be
> > >>> mailed out on paper. Paper was required.
> > >>>
> > >>> This is a big reason why I made a motion at our one  board meeting,
> in
> > >>> March, for a bylaws committee.
> > >>>
> > >>> This bylaw isn't hard to fix. There's lots of examples out there of
> > >>> organizations doing electronic voting with working published bylaws.
> > >>>
> > >>> Bruce made it very clear, when the incumbents stirred up the pot
> about
> > >>> the
> > >>> return address, that it was an endorsement from him, this was
> commonly
> > >>> done
> > >>> in political campaigns, and it would be grossly improper for me to
> use
> > >>> AMSATs return address because that would make it look like Bruce was
> > >>> speaking for or was from AMSAT. That was not going to happen. *That*
> > >>> would
> > >>> be improper.
> > >>>
> > >>> No one candidate wanted their personal address used as a return
> > address.
> > >>> We
> > >>> were mailing this as a slate and splitting the cost. We didn't have
> > time
> > >>> or
> > >>> funds to make an organization or rent a box for one letter on short
> > >>> notice.
> > >>> The printer required a real return address.
> > >>>
> > >>> No one had the address list except the candidates. Namely me because
> I
> > >>> contracted the printer and handled the DBASE4 address conversion.
> That
> > >>> is a
> > >>> neat story in and of itself,, for another time.
> > >>>
> > >>> Bruce only sent the text to me and chipped in some money for postage.
> > >>>
> > >>> The printing was automated in Van Nuys, CA.
> > >>>
> > >>> All of this is known to Clayton Coleman and his friends on the board
> > that
> > >>> signed the statement from this week. It has been explained by Bruce
> > >>> publicly, and by me several times on social media. Tom Clark brought
> it
> > >>> up
> > >>> at the 2019 annual board meeting because of the return address
> > >>> pot-stirring. I explained it there too. Like I said, it's on the
> > record.
> > >>>
> > >>> I think insinuating the addresses were mishandled is a deliberate
> > >>> twisting
> > >>> of honest efforts to scramble to get uncensored candidate statements
> > out
> > >>> to
> > >>> voters on short notice. We just didn't have a lot of time, and Bruce
> > was
> > >>> very generous in writing a cover letter.
> > >>>
> > >>> Again, candidates are allowed the use of the mailing lists for
> election
> > >>> purposes.
> > >>>
> > >>> So, no, there was no breach. Clayton knows all this.
> > >>>
> > >>> Saying it the way he did is a cheap shot at me, Patrick, Bruce
> Perens,
> > >>> and
> > >>> ORI.
> > >>>
> > >>>  -Michelle W5NYV
> > >>>
> > >>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 19:11 Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> >   Hello All,
> > >>> >
> > >>> >    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we
> > all
> > >>> > received as members.
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>>
> >
> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
> > >>> >
> > >>> > I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed
> > >>> before.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses
> to
> > >>> > Open Research Institute."
> > >>> >
> > >>> >     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a
> > >>> serious
> > >>> > breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information
> lost?
> > >>> > was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they
> > say
> > >>> > "out in the wind"?
> > >>> >
> > >>> > Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack
> how
> > >>> > ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it
> something
> > >>> > that was procured online?
> > >>> >
> > >>> > AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what
> > it
> > >>> > found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening
> in
> > >>> > the future.
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> > I look forward to an answer
> > >>> >
> > >>> > 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> > _______________________________________________
> > >>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> > available
> > >>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > >>> Opinions
> > >>> > expressed
> > >>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views
> > >>> of
> > >>> > AMSAT-NA.
> > >>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > >>> program!
> > >>> > Subscription settings:
> > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >>> >
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> > >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > >>> Opinions expressed
> > >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> > of
> > >>> AMSAT-NA.
> > >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > >>> program!
> > >>> Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >>>
> > >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
>
>
> --
> Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
> :-)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 03:04:44 +0700
> From: Kenneth P Alexander <ve3hls at gmail.com>
> To: Steve Kristoff <skristof at etczone.com>
> Cc: AMSAT -BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
> Message-ID:
>         <CAPOM0d=
> Pt9kPtHNmgxtfZdM4q2JxxqkbMFNM1pAxdj1cZFLFog at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> It's not that simple Brian.  If you follow that line of thinking then
> people by the thousands would be renouncing their American citizenship
> because of the current shitshow in Washington, but I haven't heard of that
> happening.
>
> The best thing to do is stay in the game, sort through the hysteria and
> misinformation and exercise your right to vote when the time comes.  Then
> you can move Amsat back to becoming an organization you'll want to remain a
> part of.
>
> Ok, back to sleep for me!
>
> 73,
>
> Ken Alexander, VE3HLS
> So Phisai, Thailand
> Blog:  bueng-ken.com
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 2:52 AM Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> >
> > I worked a satellite just this morning. They are still up there. Just
> have
> > to step away from the computer and turn on the radio.
> >
> > Steve Ai9IN
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Brian Karcher via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
> > Date: 07/13/20 12:10
> > To: amsat-bb at amsat.org, amsat-bb-request at amsat.org
> > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
> >
> > I thought being a member of AMSAT was about keeping amateur radio in
> > space, learning about satellites and for some of us working amateur radio
> > satellites in space.  Since the last election AMSAT seems to be about
> > nothing but politics and misinformation.  In my opinion AMSAT was a lot
> > more fun to be apart of before the last election.  All the politics and
> > misinformation drives people away from AMSAT and is not good for the
> > organization.  I have been told in the past by one of the new board
> members
> > that all of this is necessary for change to happen.  I don't see that
> AMSAT
> > has to go through some fundamental change or movement.  I am tired of the
> > new AMSAT since the last election.  I am seriously considering not
> renewing
> > my membership and I know plenty of other that are considering the same.
> > When will all of this end so we can start enjoying AMSAT again and
> working
> > satellites?
> >
> > Brian D. Karcher
> > KG5GJT
> >
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 15:23:41 -0500
> From: David Swanson <dave at druidnetworks.com>
> To: Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com>
> Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CANq+eyV985yF4XZAmiZ0oifyutc+nGosE8RgpC0rZjtuC8h6SA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> By your own words, it was YOUR letter, in a letter YOU sent. No matter how
> many times you try and repeat the same line now - you've already proven
> yourself to be a fraud.
>
> And by the way, people often violate the rules for stupid and unnecassary
> reasons. It's very rarely the big lie you get caught in, it's all the
> smaller ones you use to cover the big one up.
>
> -Dave, KG5CCI
>
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 13:29:50 -0700
> From: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer at gmail.com>
> To: Daniel Velez <djvnet at gmail.com>
> Cc: AMSAT -BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] when is the election being discussed?
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAGHXx8jLoX5ADt7jDHfkh-OOBnH3zWFukA8oAHT-0R3Fq9O3Fw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> If you joined our renewed before July 1st, you will be getting a ballot
> after July 15.
>
> Saludos
> Fernando, KF7R
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 1:26 PM Daniel Velez via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
> > I joined in June but I haven't seen any ballot info.
> > 73 de Dan
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 16:33:45 -0400
> From: Arthur Feller <afeller at ieee.org>
> To: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle at gmail.com>
> Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA, another perspective
> Message-ID: <98C0DFD9-D12C-454B-BC39-30133A8CA3FD at ieee.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8
>
> AMSAT Members:
>
> We?re going around in circles, getting nowhere fast.  No resolution in
> sight; only repetition, irritation, and turning away new and renewing
> members.  Not constructive.
>
> Much as these subjects need to be and should be discussed, may I suggest
> taking this thread offline?
>
> I?m willing to facilitate an offline discussion.
>
> 73, art?..
> W4ART  Arlington VA
> LM-113
>
> To thrive in life, you need three bones:  a wish bone, a back bone, and a
> funny bone.
>                                                 - Reba McEntire
>
> http://afeller.us <http://afeller.us/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 20:35:14 +0000 (UTC)
> From: GEO Badger <w3ab at yahoo.com>
> To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA, another perspective
> Message-ID: <865720374.1065652.1594672514170 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>  I believe that all 501(c)(3) orgs must hold at least one BOD meeting per
> year or it is in violation of the incorporation rules and the org will risk
> losing their tax exempt status.
>  3 Annual Requirements Every Nonprofit Should Know
>
> |
> |
> |
> |  |  |
>
>  |
>
>  |
> |
> |  |
> 3 Annual Requirements Every Nonprofit Should Know
>
> Congratulations, you?ve received 501(c)(3) status, so now what!? PAPERWORK
> AND MEETINGS! And also working for th...
>  |
>
>  |
>
>  |
>
>
>
> ---??
> Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side??
> 73 de W3AB/GEO ????
>
> http://www.w3ab.org
>
> You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out".
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 13:13:20 -0700
> From: Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com>
> To: David Swanson <dave at druidnetworks.com>
> Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
> Message-ID:
>         <CAK2MWOvcy8V-UUYKEi9QYKuB5p=
> Bd-rVVg1KH5DReZ91rwCHcA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> OK, Dave, you were not born yesterday :-) As I have said, I never touched
> the mailing list, and never had to. I contributed $500 for postage, the
> rest was provided by the candidates. But if I *had* touched the mailing
> list, what nefarious things would I have done with it? You are mostly all
> listed on QRZ, etc. Am I the guy sending you those mails about how Ed
> McMahon will hand you the million-dollar check from Publishers Clearing
> House?
>
> What I am getting at here is that people don't violate rules for really
> stupid and unnecessary reasons. There was a simple way to send the letter
> within the rules, and we did it.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bruce
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 12:55 PM David Swanson <dave at druidnetworks.com>
> wrote:
>
> > My apologies on the Twitter claim - when I tried loading it from source
> > nothing was displaying pre January 28th, 2020 - the day of your 'I am
> > signing off of social networking' declaration. (How'd that go btw?) I
> only
> > assumed you had deleted your tweets.
> >
> > As to your never ending story changing about the mailing list, I was born
> > at night, but it wasn't last night. Go try your story on another mark.
> >
> > -Dave, KG5CCI
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 2:45 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
> >
> >> David,
> >>
> >> My tweet was NOT deleted, and is still on twitter at
> >> https://twitter.com/BrucePerens/status/1154844208458416128
> >> As stated repeatedly, both by myself and Michelle, I did not handle the
> >> mailing list, she did. Which was 100% her right as a candidate.
> >>
> >>     Thanks
> >>
> >>     Bruce
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 11:26 AM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <
> >> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> It's always fun to remind folks tripping over their own feat lying that
> >>> the
> >>> internet is forever. From a Bruce Perens Tweet on July 13, 2020:
> >>>
> >>> "Please see my letter on the web, or the paper copy I've mailed to
> >>> everyone
> >>> one of you".
> >>>
> >>> Of course the original tweet was deleted, but the wayback machine never
> >>> forgets. Don't Believe me? http://druidnetworks.com/2020-07-13.png
> >>>
> >>> If you still think the membership list wasn't compromised, I just heard
> >>> Director Thompson will be auctioning off their ocean front property in
> >>> Arizona to all the members this year to raise funds for their
> microwave,
> >>> digital only, strictly open source crowd funded, vegan, social justice
> >>> aware cubesat launch to Proxima Centauri. Of course this launch will
> only
> >>> come after 10 years of ground station development, but fueled with
> enough
> >>> hopes, dreams and promises it will become a reality!
> >>>
> >>> For the rest of us who actually want to keep amateur radio in (real)
> >>> space
> >>> and are disgusted at the violations of privacy that occured by 3rd
> >>> parties
> >>> working to get Director Thompson and Director Stoddard elected, well,
> you
> >>> should know what to do.
> >>>
> >>> -Dave, KG5CCI
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:24 AM Michelle Thompson <
> >>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > No database went anywhere except to candidates. This is allowed in
> the
> >>> > bylaws.
> >>> >
> >>> > Then, an automated bulk mail printing server was used. I recommended
> >>> the
> >>> > company to Brennan Price for this year's mailing. Good service,
> >>> > inexpensive.
> >>> >
> >>> > Return addresses don't magically transfer information.
> >>> >
> >>> > -Michelle W5NYV
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 04:32 David Swanson <dave at druidnetworks.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> Spin Spin Spin. The simple truth here is Director Thompson took the
> >>> AMSAT
> >>> >> member database, and handed it over to a 3rd party competing entity
> >>> for the
> >>> >> purpose of solicitation. I know I did not give ORI my home address,
> >>> yet ORI
> >>> >> sent me a letter. This was a violation of my privacy, and for AMSAT
> >>> >> members living in the EU, this was a violation of the law. Any
> >>> attempt to
> >>> >> explain this away is just more lies and deceit from Director
> Thompson
> >>> about
> >>> >> the shady practices they have engaged in over the past few years. As
> >>> I keep
> >>> >> saying, this isn't a one time thing, this is a pattern of
> >>> >> reprehensible behavior that is unbecoming of an elected position and
> >>> this
> >>> >> community. Director Thompson and Director Stoddard should resign.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> -Dave, KG5CCI
> >>> >>
> >>> >> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:33 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
> >>> >> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >>> Yes, I can.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> That part of Clayton's letter is wrong and has been repeatedly
> >>> clarified
> >>> >>> before. Including at the 2019 annual board meeting, where Tom Clark
> >>> asked
> >>> >>> me about it, as part of the record.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Clayton Coleman was secretary in 2019.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> He ran the election.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> He decided that candidate statements were limited in length to 350
> >>> words,
> >>> >>> would be subject to editorial control by AMSAT, and could not
> include
> >>> >>> links. These new rules were given to us right before the 4th of
> July
> >>> >>> holiday with a deadline of the 7th.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> This is different than any election before, where statements went
> >>> >>> directly
> >>> >>> to the printer from the candidate, were not limited in length, and
> >>> no one
> >>> >>> from AMSAT leadership (who might be running for reelection
> >>> themselves)
> >>> >>> had
> >>> >>> any control over the content of their challengers' statements.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> We got these rules right before ballots went out. We (four
> >>> challengers)
> >>> >>> already had normal-sized statements on the web and they had been up
> >>> six
> >>> >>> weeks at that point. Those were the ones we wanted to use, and link
> >>> to.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> We knew that as candidates, we had the right to request the mailing
> >>> list,
> >>> >>> and send our own statements, independent of the ballot.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> I requested the address list and got the DBASE4 export.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Bruce Perens had already written a letter of support and
> distributed
> >>> it
> >>> >>> widely on the web. It introduced us and included our four full bios
> >>> and
> >>> >>> statements.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> I asked Bruce if we could use his letter in the mailing. He said
> yes.
> >>> >>> Since
> >>> >>> he was President of Open Research Institute at the time, he wanted
> >>> the
> >>> >>> return address to not be his private home address, but a business
> >>> >>> address.
> >>> >>> That was ORI's address. He was the author of the endorsement, so I
> >>> used
> >>> >>> his
> >>> >>> preferred return address.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> I converted the DBASE4 to a more useful format, fixed the 50 or so
> >>> >>> undeliverable addresses, and found an inexpensive printer. Then I
> >>> sent
> >>> >>> the
> >>> >>> letter from Bruce to the printer, with the bios and statements.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> That turned out to be a good thing. Bios and statements were not
> >>> included
> >>> >>> with the ballots mailed out, at all.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> If we had not sent the letter, then name recognition would be the
> >>> primary
> >>> >>> factor. We were running against well-known people.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> We complained about this. It was unusual departure from the past
> and
> >>> >>> seemed
> >>> >>> set up to let leadership benefit from being incumbents.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> The original proposal from Clayton was for an electronic only
> ballot.
> >>> >>> Patrick said that the bylaws were a bit clunky here and it did need
> >>> to be
> >>> >>> mailed out on paper. Paper was required.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> This is a big reason why I made a motion at our one  board meeting,
> >>> in
> >>> >>> March, for a bylaws committee.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> This bylaw isn't hard to fix. There's lots of examples out there of
> >>> >>> organizations doing electronic voting with working published
> bylaws.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Bruce made it very clear, when the incumbents stirred up the pot
> >>> about
> >>> >>> the
> >>> >>> return address, that it was an endorsement from him, this was
> >>> commonly
> >>> >>> done
> >>> >>> in political campaigns, and it would be grossly improper for me to
> >>> use
> >>> >>> AMSATs return address because that would make it look like Bruce
> was
> >>> >>> speaking for or was from AMSAT. That was not going to happen.
> *That*
> >>> >>> would
> >>> >>> be improper.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> No one candidate wanted their personal address used as a return
> >>> address.
> >>> >>> We
> >>> >>> were mailing this as a slate and splitting the cost. We didn't have
> >>> time
> >>> >>> or
> >>> >>> funds to make an organization or rent a box for one letter on short
> >>> >>> notice.
> >>> >>> The printer required a real return address.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> No one had the address list except the candidates. Namely me
> because
> >>> I
> >>> >>> contracted the printer and handled the DBASE4 address conversion.
> >>> That
> >>> >>> is a
> >>> >>> neat story in and of itself,, for another time.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Bruce only sent the text to me and chipped in some money for
> postage.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> The printing was automated in Van Nuys, CA.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> All of this is known to Clayton Coleman and his friends on the
> board
> >>> that
> >>> >>> signed the statement from this week. It has been explained by Bruce
> >>> >>> publicly, and by me several times on social media. Tom Clark
> brought
> >>> it
> >>> >>> up
> >>> >>> at the 2019 annual board meeting because of the return address
> >>> >>> pot-stirring. I explained it there too. Like I said, it's on the
> >>> record.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> I think insinuating the addresses were mishandled is a deliberate
> >>> >>> twisting
> >>> >>> of honest efforts to scramble to get uncensored candidate
> statements
> >>> out
> >>> >>> to
> >>> >>> voters on short notice. We just didn't have a lot of time, and
> Bruce
> >>> was
> >>> >>> very generous in writing a cover letter.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Again, candidates are allowed the use of the mailing lists for
> >>> election
> >>> >>> purposes.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> So, no, there was no breach. Clayton knows all this.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Saying it the way he did is a cheap shot at me, Patrick, Bruce
> >>> Perens,
> >>> >>> and
> >>> >>> ORI.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>  -Michelle W5NYV
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 19:11 Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org
> >
> >>> >>> wrote:
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >   Hello All,
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter
> >>> we all
> >>> >>> > received as members.
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>>
> >>>
> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed
> >>> >>> before.
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses
> >>> to
> >>> >>> > Open Research Institute."
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a
> >>> >>> serious
> >>> >>> > breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information
> >>> lost?
> >>> >>> > was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as
> they
> >>> say
> >>> >>> > "out in the wind"?
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack
> >>> how
> >>> >>> > ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it
> >>> something
> >>> >>> > that was procured online?
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back
> >>> what it
> >>> >>> > found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from
> happening
> >>> in
> >>> >>> > the future.
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > I look forward to an answer
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> >>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> >>> available
> >>> >>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >>> >>> Opinions
> >>> >>> > expressed
> >>> >>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> >>> views
> >>> >>> of
> >>> >>> > AMSAT-NA.
> >>> >>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >>> >>> program!
> >>> >>> > Subscription settings:
> >>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> >>> available
> >>> >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >>> >>> Opinions expressed
> >>> >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> >>> views of
> >>> >>> AMSAT-NA.
> >>> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >>> >>> program!
> >>> >>> Subscription settings:
> >>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >>> Opinions expressed
> >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> >>> AMSAT-NA.
> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >>> program!
> >>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
> >> eventually :-)
> >>
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via amsat-bb at amsat.org.
> AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons
> worldwide without requiring membership.  Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 247
> *****************************************
>

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Tue Jul 14 05:20:08 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 01:20:08 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Why we are having this big unpleasant argument on
 your satellite mailing list
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOsL+EO6q3QnLjL395uSeLZR8QnkUuD9q3nJ+O4e7Kvytw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK2MWOsL+EO6q3QnLjL395uSeLZR8QnkUuD9q3nJ+O4e7Kvytw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c98zcZ5PRn4qY-M8FQ6D8UgVSb3zPFiZhs_C0rFS=ckHw@mail.gmail.com>

Bruce,

How is electing more new blood going to resolve anything, from a
practical standpoint?  That's like saying "well, just throw 4 new
engineers at a problem and that will help us solve it in the next few
months".  Engineering problems don't scale that way, and interpersonal
ones, definitely don't (ref: marriage).  Maybe there will be more
people that will be agreeable and provide a positive perception but
that can't be confused with organizational competence and
productivity.  And don't get me wrong here, i'm not saying anyone is
innocent or guilty of any particular action in the past, because I
didn't sit in meetings where anything that has been discussed on this
thread had actually occurred, but I know that throwing new people at a
problem isn't necessarily the best answer (democracy or not).

That being said, the whole 'us vs them' talking point, seems like a
recent development per my personal experience and it actually makes my
blood boil a little.  Maybe others have had different experiences, but
being co-located near several AMSAT members and having developed
personal relationships with several of them, both locally and abroad ,
this really hurts.  And it hurts a lot.  Because I witnessed almost 0
'us vs them' over anything through the ARISSat days (2008 - 2011) and
tapering off through 2018.  No-one I knew was bickering about anything
except awkward bb-posts, shipping dates, machining, assembling,
testing and maybe putting together a teach-in... The technical /
development emails I was on were full of interactions of software
devs, hardware devs, etc... From crimping and soldering pins, to
literally building a vacuum chamber and hermetically sealed
feed-throughs for it.  I remember even sending one engineer some gyros
I had around my shack because they had a hard time procuring some.
Oh, and these may not be found on any AMSAT invoice because I didn't
charge AMSAT for them (or the shipping!), just did it to help the team
out because the people were awesome.  They invested their free time
and worked so damn hard for the love of the game, it's insane really.
I witnessed the polar opposite characterization of AMSAT and the
board.  To me, it was always the best and brightest, incredibly
active, caring and hard-working group of people that spent most of
their free cycles volunteering to the development of the craft or
mentoring others.  I saw nothing but good people, absolutely amazing
engineers and role models.  I have nothing but good to say of the
organization, I feel indebted to it in many ways and really would like
to see it flourish in the ways that I was able to benefit from it.  In
fact, so-much-so, that I became a life member in 2018.  That may not
be a huge financial decision to others but it sure was to me at the
time.

I can't speak to the good-old-days of AMSAT, because I wasn't alive at
the time.  I am really more of a recent, modern, techie, transient, in
terms of HAM/AMSAT history.  But from my observations, the results of
ARISSat-1 and AMSAT-Fox(es) are reasonably incredible, given the
logistics, individual life circumstances and all the rest.  The
architecture, the modularity of the stack, the coordination for the
launches, the people making it happen, and Getting It Done.  Maybe i'm
just easily impressed by simple engineering things but it's really
hard to argue with Results.  And with so many satellite failures out
there, it is rather impressive!

Maybe there are interpersonal problems, but if you're going to sit
here any bash the board... really?  They, and everyone underneath them
(who likely didn't have
every-single-cent-approved-for-every-single-receipt), are just getting
stuff done.  When it comes to organizations like this, as a wise man
once told me at an AMSAT Symposium "it takes all kinds".  And though,
you may not necessarily agree with those kinds in the moment, most of
them really just want to hack and produce something cool.
Unfortunately, the world doesn't always make that easy and they need
to operate within their provided constraints.  And also unfortunately,
the world will only ever focus on the bad and ignore all the good.

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 6:19 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Most of you are members of AMSAT. IMO the organization has some serious
> problems, and as members it is your duty to steer the organization with
> your votes. That means that you should remain aware of what is going on and
> you should make an informed vote. The satellite discussions go on, mostly
> uninterrupted, all year. A short break for politics is not unreasonable,
> and acrimonious discussion is to be expected when we take that break.
>
> Organisations are run by people who would not be doing the work if they did
> not have strong emotions about it. And they all have their own failings.
> Unfortunately, volunteer non-profit directors (and many public ones in big
> corporations) never learn a critical skill of democracy: *how to deal
> properly with opposition. *That is the root of what we are arguing about
> now. Opposition are not the enemy! Yet, they are clearly being treated as
> such. They are simply people who would reform the organization or take it
> in a different direction from the incumbents.
>
> In this case, Michelle and Patrick, before they were elected, were the
> loyal opposition - dedicated to a better organization, and deeply troubled
> by the decisions and conduct of the incumbent board. The incumbent's
> response was not to work with the opposition, but to hunker down and use
> lawyers. To the incumbent's great distress, the very same people got sent
> to the board by the membership! Leading to more lawyers. IMO the incumbents
> should have read this as a signal from the membership, rather than doubling
> down their resistance.
>
> The sad reality is that the newly-elected directors have never been allowed
> to function as directors. You should be concerned, since they are the
> people whom you elected to represent you. The main means used to disable
> your elected representatives has been refusal by the incumbents to hold
> board meetings. This refusal is almost total, with exactly *one* meeting
> being held after the organization's annual convention.
>
> The second means used to disenfranchise the newly-elected directors was
> that the incumbents withheld information which a director would generally
> be expected to have access to. As it happened, this information was at
> least in part discussion of those very same people, and contracting of
> legal counsel in a process against them.
>
> Every board has the right to legal counsel. But it's expensive, and must be
> used wisely. This was not a wise use. A wise use would have been to engage
> the opposition rather than to hunker down.
>
> One very large cause of all of this is that the same people have been
> running AMSAT for a very long time, and it becomes an echo chamber after a
> while - the us-vs-them mentality of the board vs. the opposition - but
> really the board vs. everyone else - becomes self-reinforcing.
>
> This is obviously wrong for the organization. The solution is simple, and
> every organization needs it: *regular turn-over of the people in the
> organization's leadership. *Not the stratification that we currently have.
>
> You can fix this by electing more new blood to the board.
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Bruce
>
> --
> Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
> :-)
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From Paul at n6ev.com  Tue Jul 14 06:42:18 2020
From: Paul at n6ev.com (Paul N6EV)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 01:42:18 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Why we are having this big unpleasant argument on
	your satellite mailing list
In-Reply-To: <aaab5fc4-70ac-f9a0-44dd-8b91086aa982@gmail.com>
References: <CAK2MWOsL+EO6q3QnLjL395uSeLZR8QnkUuD9q3nJ+O4e7Kvytw@mail.gmail.com>
	<aaab5fc4-70ac-f9a0-44dd-8b91086aa982@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <01f401d659a9$eba34820$c2e9d860$@n6ev.com>

Henry - K5YDD,
BRAVO!  Yours is the clearest and most on-point response I've read so far.  As an outside observer like you without the cloud of bias on one side or the other, it is clear to see what is happening.   It's very sad to see the damage being inflicted on the AMSAT-NA organization at the moment.  Damage from which, regardless of the outcome of the election, will take many many years to recover, if ever.

73
Paul N6EV
Retired Spacecraft Manager



-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of HenryTurner via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 6:24 PM
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Why we are having this big unpleasant argument on your satellite mailing list

Hello all,

I am not an AMSAT member.  I know no one personally or otherwise who is 
to my knowledge a member of AMSAT.  The last member I knew, was W5GEL.  
Some may remember him.  He was well known and SK in July of 2003.  I 
have not worked a satellite in years.  I say all this to establish that 
I truly have no connection to anyone who has responded to any of this 
discussion.

My basic observation is the following:  AMSAT seems to have become the 
object of a takeover.  In the world of public companies this happens 
often, where an activist investor comes in with the intention of taking 
control of the company.  The reasons for this can be varied and 
complex.  Be it intellectual property, general assets or general control 
(usually with a mindset that the company is being run wrongly or 
ineptly.)  Because BODs in a public company are not really selected by 
all stock holders as such only by those who control the majority of the 
stock (don't fool yourself -- your vote is not equal to Buffett's, 
unless you own as many shares as he does.) The activist usually becomes 
well known as are his intentions.  A slate of directors is put up and if 
the activist wins, his board winners are nothing more than his proxies.  
AMSAT is different instead of an individual buying stock for control, a 
program of "get the votes" from the general membership ensues.  To put 
it in distasteful terms a propaganda war ensues.  Your common Joe or 
Joelene just does not have the access to all that two board members did 
to get the votes to be elected.

Please don't be fooled by the, "it was this or it was that." There is a 
minority who wishes to become the majority.  By bringing all this to the 
public -- chaos ensues -- doubt clouds minds meanwhile control is 
taken.  There are two board members who have caused upheaval they are 
proxies for another.

I would suggest that whether you agree with the direction of AMSAT or 
not, do not let it change (deserving to change or not) because of a 
hijacking or coup.  If it wasn't the attorney expense excuse it would 
have been something else down the road.

Thanks, again, just an opinion based on nothing more than reading these 
discussions.

Henry -- K5YDD


From propgrinder at gmail.com  Tue Jul 14 17:57:03 2020
From: propgrinder at gmail.com (Bob Hammond)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 10:57:03 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR20MB2326EEA3EEDE3DC8F5C3E6EB98610@BYAPR20MB2326.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
	<BYAPR20MB2326EEA3EEDE3DC8F5C3E6EB98610@BYAPR20MB2326.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAKoB7Oo87QuxNT589k=VDrVXp1Eiex9ZCUi1135=Dr0zEeoPkg@mail.gmail.com>

An email BB like we have now takes little (or used to take little)
administration.  Do we want to add another admin task if we don't have to?
Subgroups are a good idea and they work.  I think amsat-bb is an adequate
subgroup as it stands.

Bob W7OTJ

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 10:06 AM Eli Caul via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> In my corporate experience, you need to be very careful with these
> solutions - -It sounds great at first, but what ends up happening is you
> create so many sub groups in an effort to cover every interest that you end
> up with a big splintered environment in which you can?t find anything.
>
> Also, IM solutions like Teams, Slack etc are really trying to solve a
> different problem.   They are great for short sprints, projects, service
> outages and the like, but the messages tend to be very ephemeral.
>
> We tried this in a few of the car clubs I participate in, and the people
> who suffer the most are casual visitors.    They read digests, or just
> browse the list a few times a month and they get caught up.
>
> In an IM environment, it seems that you have to be on it every day or else
> things get lost in the sands of time.
>
> We run a hybrid solution at work that might work well for AMSAT.   Leave
> the mailing list(s) basically as is, and then set up a Slack type solution
> for special projects, or intense conversations like the recent thread re:
> Amsat management and direction.
>
> Sharing my experience, HTH, etc etc
>
> '73 de KK6ZHZ
>
> - Eli Caul
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Robert MacHale
> via AMSAT-BB
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2020 07:23
> To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
>
> Can I suggest moving AMSAT member communications from eMail to Slack?
>
> When I taught at UC Riverside last year - we used Slack to communicate
> with students. The tech companies I have worked with in Southern California
> have used Slack for many years. Recently, I noticed the Parrot Disco (RC
> Glider) club uses Slack to communicate with volunteers and members:
>
> https://github.com/uavpal/disco4g
>
> The benefit to Slack is having channels for each topic. In this case,
> discussion about Board Membership can be in it's own channel. People who
> are not interested are not required to read.
>
> Each technology can have it's own channel. Each project can have it's own
> channel. And, members can find each other easily.
> This current eMail subscription for all things creates a pain point -
> encouraging everyone to read everything.
> I highly recommend the Board of Directors evaluate Slack as a replacement
> for eMail; the corporate cost per user in low compared to value: excellent
> ROI. Remember, eMail subscriptions became popular in the 1980s. This
> protocol is entirely outdated and outmoded for conversations today. Keep in
> mind, the Medium is the message - another reminder AmSat has become
> outdated and outmoded and not keeping up with the times.
> Slack has been a positive and transforming tool employed on many projects
> I have worked with recently.
> Sincerely,
>
> Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License. http://www.aprsat.com/predict .
> http://www.spaceCommunicator.club . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in
> Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to
> all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From johnbrier at gmail.com  Tue Jul 14 18:17:53 2020
From: johnbrier at gmail.com (John Brier)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 14:17:53 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Brief summary of the "unauthorized expenses" claim
In-Reply-To: <CANsNeap=vWYZMOaQsmLHtu-asnSmf1O17faADiQgdTLgHk7OCg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANsNeaoAOL8BRBS8efmhNVC8-vQ3cWb3+uF2X1pkpe05=t2jFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1fdeda8fb65dcf349de22015c4600119@etczone.com>
	<CANsNeap=vWYZMOaQsmLHtu-asnSmf1O17faADiQgdTLgHk7OCg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALn0fKMsARJZih=Zh9ri93ZfCCkUdNUC=Xv6YyZgX-sQutXO5Q@mail.gmail.com>

Right, so it's possible that the expenses were made within the bylaws,
from what you're saying. The question still remains, was it wise?

Which brings me to a point I want to make in response to this from
Clayton's message:

"It is absurd for two newly elected board members to make accusations
of unauthorized expenditures when it was in part the actions of
Directors Thompson and Stoddard prior to their election that forced
the Board at that time to take appropriate action to seek legal
counsel to protect the corporation."

You always have a choice. Instead of hiring lawyers you could have
engaged Michelle and Patrick about their concerns. You could have done
this informally and in additional board meetings beyond the one you
had.

Describing criticism or opposition as attacks and threats, and
engaging lawyers over it, shows to me that there is room for
improvement in handling criticism.

73, John Brier KG4AKV

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:19 PM Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Let me clarify:
>
> I said "the board said the expenses were authorized."
>
> I didn't say "the board directly authorized the expenses"
>
> The implication is that the officers authorized the expenses and the board
> was OK with that.  And since it's up to the board to decide what the
> officers can or can't authorize, the fact that they said that the expenses
> were authorized should be sufficient.
>
> Rich
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:46 PM Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> >
> > But even in your own evaluation there are contradictions.
> >
> > Quote from your email: "If an expense went to the board for approval, it
> > would show up in the
> >   minutes of that board meeting."
> >
> > Further down your email: "- In this case, the members of the AMSAT board
> > at the time said that the
> >   expenses were authorized."
> >
> >
> > Then, by your own evaluation of the by-laws, if the members of the board
> > authorized the expenditures (second quote), shouldn't that authorization
> > show up in the minutes of the board meeting? (first quote)
> >
> > Steve AI9IN
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
> > Date: 07/13/20 15:25
> > To: Amsat - BBs (AMSAT-BB at amsat.org)
> > Subject: [amsat-bb] Brief summary of the "unauthorized expenses" claim
> >
> > First: I'm not a lawyer.  These are my observations only.
> >
> > This is what I learned over the past few days while researching the claim
> > that the AMSAT money spent on legal services related to the new directors
> > was "unauthorized".
> >
> >   - I read the AMSAT bylaws.  They are very readable, BTW - and not long.
> >   - The bylaws say that expenses can be authorized either by the board
> >   itself or by the officers of AMSAT if the board delegates that authority.
> >   - If an expense went to the board for approval, it would show up in the
> >   minutes of that board meeting.
> >   - If an expense were authorized by an officer, then it wouldn't show up
> >   in the minutes of a board meeting.
> >   - The claim that the expenses were unauthorized was based on the
> >   observation that there was no record in the board meeting minutes of the
> >   authorization.  However, as mentioned above, not everything has to go to
> >   the board for approval.  And that decision is up to the board itself.
> >   - In this case, the members of the AMSAT board at the time said that the
> >   expenses were authorized.
> >   - Since the board has the authority to authorize expenditures (directly
> >   or indirectly) and they say the expenses were authorized, that indicates
> > to
> >   me that the expenses were authorized.
> >
> > Note: Michelle and Patrick were not members of the board when this
> > happened.  They were analyzing this after the fact.
> >
> > Rich
> > KD2CQ
> > AMSAT Life Member
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From upwardtoheo at gmail.com  Tue Jul 14 18:42:34 2020
From: upwardtoheo at gmail.com (Upward To HEO)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 14:42:34 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Former AMSAT President Barry Baines, WD4ASW,
	Endorses N8HM, N8MH, and KK5DO
Message-ID: <CAB815W4DTqivvMpb9euo1UYYL88WxEavpEmprDT0MP6gj3gO8Q@mail.gmail.com>

We are honored to receive the endorsement of former AMSAT President
Barry Baines, WD4ASW, in this year's AMSAT Board of Directors
election. Please read his letter at
https://www.upwardtoheo.com/updates/former-amsat-president-barry-baines-wd4asw-endorses-n8hm-n8mh-and-kk5do

While you're there, please check out our biographies and information
about our plans on our website. We'd like your support. Together we
will return amateur radio to HEO!

73,

Paul, N8HM / Mark, N8MH / Bruce, KK5DO
www.upwardtoheo.com

From bruce at perens.com  Tue Jul 14 18:53:23 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 11:53:23 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2XHuuKq_EFHAu2OdqhMAq0kVjqE8E5_4=4CWvHQTtHj9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
	<BYAPR20MB2326EEA3EEDE3DC8F5C3E6EB98610@BYAPR20MB2326.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
	<CACvjz2XHuuKq_EFHAu2OdqhMAq0kVjqE8E5_4=4CWvHQTtHj9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOsJN5SOp_sKtmMXE=edAXtmUN1aHC06e60Zy5CSzxwnXQ@mail.gmail.com>

Discord's company has some reputation problems. Pretty much everything bad
that social networks do, they found a way to do to as well.

Unfortunately about the only way to avoid this sort of issue is to control
your own facilities, which open source software makes possible. And of
course this means somebody has to manage it. I will not deny that that is a
serious overhead for a volunteer organization.

From seb at wintek.com  Tue Jul 14 20:08:48 2020
From: seb at wintek.com (Stephen  E. Belter)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 20:08:48 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
Message-ID: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>

The ballots for the annual election of members of the AMSAT Board of Directors will arrive in members' mailboxes soon.  My vote is no more important than any other member's vote.  However, I'm privileged to know personally all of the candidates, as well as all of the board members, all of the officers, and the previous 4-5 presidents of AMSAT.  

With one exception, I call all of them my friends.  (I don't know one of them that well.)  None of my friends are perfect, but I feel fortunate that they are contributing their time and efforts to AMSAT.  

If you don't know all of the candidates personally, I hope you find the following useful when you are casting your ballot.

For readers that don't know me, I've been a member of AMSAT since 1993 and I'm a Life Member.  I also contribute financially to AMSAT beyond membership dues.  I like operating the satellites, with 635 confirmed grids, and 487 of the 488 continental USA grids.  I also like operating portable with over 150 reverse grids, that is, I've made confirmed satellite QSOs from 150 grids while traveling through the US and Canada.  

I've also volunteered for AMSAT, helping with the AMSAT booth at the Dayton Hamvention on multiple occasions, including being the AMSAT Dayton Team Leader from 2013 through 2017.  I'm also part of a small team of individuals that has rewritten, reorganized, and updated annually the AMSAT "Getting Started With Amateur Satellites" book from 2013 through 2020.  I've also attended a number of the AMSAT Symposia.

Here are the candidates for this year's three open seats:

Mark Hammond, N8MH -- Mark has served on the AMSAT BoD for a number of years and has invested countless hours and money as a Control Op for AMSAT's satellites.  He likes collecting telemetry and often answers questions about SatPC32 and digital operations on the AMSAT-BB.  In addition to being very smart, he works well with people, and is Provost at Campbell University.  Mark is a very good friend and I have full confidence in him and his judgement.

Paul Stoetzer, N8HM -- Paul has served as Secretary and as Executive Vice President of AMSAT.  He is a great operator, having given me a number of grids around Washington, DC and in Michigan.  I think he is at 486 confirmed of the 488 grids in the continental USA.  He has been a huge asset to AMSAT, getting the day-to-day work of the organization done, working on the website and store, filling in during Presidential absences, and assisting in the AMSAT Office in Kensington.  He is very smart and often answers questions on the AMSAT-BB and Twitter.  Paul is a good friend and I have full confidence in him and his judgement.

Bruce Paige, KK5DO -- Bruce has handled the AMSAT awards for years and is a member of the BoD.  He also hosts a regular AMSAT net in Houston which is available over the Internet.  Now that he has retired from his day job, he is devoting additional time to supporting AMSAT and tutoring new operators.  Bruce is a friend and I have full confidence in him and his judgement.

Howie DeFelice, AB2S -- I've met Howie at Dayton and have seen his posts on the AMSAT-BB and the Ground-Station mail lists.  I don't know Howie well enough to claim him as a friend, but I respect his technical expertise and appreciate the time he volunteers. 

Bob McGwier, N4HY -- Bob has a long history with AMSAT, having served as VP of Engineering and as a member of the BoD.  He is incredibly smart.  He was one of the inventors of software-defined modems and software-defined radios.  Bob is a friend and I listen carefully when he speaks (or writes).  I'm uncertain where he wants to take AMSAT now.

Jeff Johns, WE4B -- Jeff has given me a number of grids and I've returned the favor when I've been roving.  He has mentored his two young daughters who do a great job operating satellites.  It is always a thrill hearing them operate.  Jeff is a friend and I'm always happy when we make contact.  


There has been lots of discussion, some quite heated and not always accurate, about transparency, legal expenses, and who isn't being cooperative.  As a result of attending parts of board meetings at the AMSAT Symposia, occasionally delivering reports to the BoD about Dayton on BoD teleconferences, and private conversations with AMSAT officers and BoD members, I feel I have a good understanding of the workings of the board and the issues at the core of the disagreements.  I share my observations below.

To get to the point, I plan to vote for Mark Hammond, Paul Stoetzer, and Bruce Paige.


The other members of the BoD are Jerry, Drew, Patrick, and Michelle.

Jerry Buxton, N0JY -- Jerry is a member of the Board and is VP of Engineering.  He does a great job of organizing a bunch of engineering volunteers, supervising progress on a wide number of aspects of our designs, implementations, and launches.  There are far more engineering volunteers than you might imagine, and the technical challenges and regulatory requirements for new satellites going to higher orbits are daunting.  He is also our primary contact for unmanned launches by NASA.  Jerry is a friend and I have full confidence in him and his judgement.

Drew Glasbrenner, KO4MA -- Drew is VP of Operations and a member of the board.  He vets potential launch providers and negotiates the fees for paid launches.  He also has invested countless hours and money as a Control Op for AMSAT's satellites.  He is also a regular operator and has collected over 1750 grids.  Drew is a friend and I have full confidence in him and his judgement.

Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK -- My first QSO with Patrick was in 2011.  He's given me lots of grids and I've returned the favor by giving Patrick several grids while I've been roving.  He is constantly roving the southwest and represents AMSAT at numerous hamfests and club meetings.  He is one of our hardest working representatives for AMSAT.  Unfortunately, he got into a pointless conflict with Drew, KO4MA, over what should have been a trivial matter.  When Drew wouldn't capitulate, Patrick took his beef to Joe Spier, K6WAO, then the President of AMSAT.  When Joe wouldn't discipline Drew, Patrick decided that Joe should be fired.  The situation went further downhill from there.  Patrick should be a tremendous asset to the BoD from his experience as a satellite operator and an AMSAT representative.  Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case, as he's fixated on revenge for perceived wrongs.  He's been a major contributor to the dysfunctional board meetings.  With a change of attitude, he could still be a major contributor to the board.  I still consider Patrick to be a friend.

Michelle Thompson, W5NYV -- I met Michelle at Dayton in 2008 and was immediately impressed.  She is a very intelligent individual with a wide range of interests.  She is highly organized and excellent at engaging volunteers for her projects.  I was so impressed that I asked her to be the dinner speaker for the AMSAT/TAPR Banquet at Dayton in 2016.  

Unfortunately, Michelle sometime chooses to "Do what you want and ask forgiveness later."  She did it to me and put me in a terrible position.  

I asked Michelle for help in creating a 3D printer design for a model of the Fox satellites.  I requested and received a CAD file of AO-85 from AMSAT Engineering to help with this project.  Michelle and Paul Williamson, KB5MU, created the 3D printer model.  Michelle said they wanted to post the file on the Internet so others could use it.  I asked her to wait to make it public until I received permission from the AMSAT Board of Directors, since AMSAT is governed by ITAR.  She said OK, then posted it without waiting for permission.  This put me in a terrible position with AMSAT Engineering and the BoD.  As a result, I was really mad.  Fortunately for me, it worked out OK with Engineering and the BoD.  I'm not mad now, but I learned an important lesson about working with Michelle.

Michelle has been a major contributor to the dysfunctional board meetings.  With a change of attitude, Michelle could still be a huge asset to the board.  I still consider her to be a friend.


I learned from others that similar problems, "Do what you want and ask forgiveness later,"  had occurred before between AMSAT and Michelle.  So why the dirty laundry now?  Michelle gets elected to the board, then demands a list of all of the Non-Disclosure Agreements (NDAs) AMSAT has signed (for example, with NASA, launch providers, and potential satellite partners) *and* that they be made public.  Some, if not all of the NDAs state that the content of the NDA and its existence will not be disclosed by AMSAT.  (By the way, I know AMSAT has signed NDAs, but I don't know how many or with whom.)

This puts the Board and the Officers in a terrible dilemma.  Do they share these confidential NDAs with the new board members who have publicly stated that they don't think NDAs need to be kept private?  What is the impact on AMSAT if NASA or a launch provider or another partner decides that AMSAT isn't a reliable organization that can be trusted not to share private information?  How do we get future AMSAT satellites to orbit if the free launches from NASA or paid launches from providers are no longer available to us?

Of course, Michelle and Patrick spin this as the Board being uncooperative and not being transparent.


Officers who are not elected board members:

Joe Spier, K6WAO, past President -- Joe agreed to serve as President of AMSAT when Barry Baines, WD4ASW, decided to retire after a decade of leading AMSAT.  Joe threw himself into the position, did an excellent job of succeeding Barry, and moved the organization forward.  In addition to his huge time investment, Joe also contributed a significant amount of money to AMSAT and covered a lot of expenses he incurred traveling and promoting AMSAT.  I don't know why Joe resigned, but it wouldn't surprise me if he decided he didn't need to defend himself from lawsuits from new board members that didn't like the job he was doing.  This is, after all, a volunteer position.  Joe is a friend.

Clayton Coleman, W5PFG, President -- After Joe resigned, Clayton stepped forward to fill the vacancy and was elected by the board.  Clayton was Secretary and a past member of the board.  He took the job of President to try to resolve the problems with a dysfunctional board and to try to save AMSAT.  (Yes, the situation is that dire.)  He has made some changes for the better, but is still struggling to solve the problems.  Clayton is a good friend and I have full confidence in him and his judgement.

Robert Bankston, KE4AL, Treasurer and VP of User Services -- Robert is a relatively new member of AMSAT, but he's jumped in with both feet and made a huge contribution to the organization.  He hosted the Huntsville Symposium, roves on a regular basis, has resuscitated User Services, and also took over the job of Treasurer when Keith Baker, KB1SF, decided to retire.  He also spearheaded the new member portal, membership database, and online website for new and renewing membership.  Robert is a good friend and I have full confidence in him and his judgement.


To conclude this too long dissertation, despite considerable headwinds and misinformation, AMSAT is making progress.  I plan to vote for Mark Hammond, Paul Stoetzer, and Bruce Paige with the expectation that AMSAT can continue to make additional progress.?

73, Steve N9IP
-- 
Steve Belter, seb at wintek.com
 


From w3ab at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 14 20:40:23 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 13:40:23 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
In-Reply-To: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
References: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
Message-ID: <6b4ff523-0839-484f-ad51-a832c4d75c32@yahoo.com>

Thank you Steve. That WAS a long read but well worth it. Learning more of the history and G2 about all the individuals connected to Amsat & the BOD without attached emotion was enlightening.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 14, 2020, 13:32, at 13:32, "Stephen  E. Belter via AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>The ballots for the annual election of members of the AMSAT Board of
>Directors will arrive in members' mailboxes soon.  My vote is no more
>important than any other member's vote.  However, I'm privileged to
>know personally all of the candidates, as well as all of the board
>members, all of the officers, and the previous 4-5 presidents of AMSAT.
> 
>
>With one exception, I call all of them my friends.  (I don't know one
>of them that well.)  None of my friends are perfect, but I feel
>fortunate that they are contributing their time and efforts to AMSAT.  
>
>If you don't know all of the candidates personally, I hope you find the
>following useful when you are casting your ballot.
>
>For readers that don't know me, I've been a member of AMSAT since 1993
>and I'm a Life Member.  I also contribute financially to AMSAT beyond
>membership dues.  I like operating the satellites, with 635 confirmed
>grids, and 487 of the 488 continental USA grids.  I also like operating
>portable with over 150 reverse grids, that is, I've made confirmed
>satellite QSOs from 150 grids while traveling through the US and
>Canada.  
>
>I've also volunteered for AMSAT, helping with the AMSAT booth at the
>Dayton Hamvention on multiple occasions, including being the AMSAT
>Dayton Team Leader from 2013 through 2017.  I'm also part of a small
>team of individuals that has rewritten, reorganized, and updated
>annually the AMSAT "Getting Started With Amateur Satellites" book from
>2013 through 2020.  I've also attended a number of the AMSAT Symposia.
>
>Here are the candidates for this year's three open seats:
>
>Mark Hammond, N8MH -- Mark has served on the AMSAT BoD for a number of
>years and has invested countless hours and money as a Control Op for
>AMSAT's satellites.  He likes collecting telemetry and often answers
>questions about SatPC32 and digital operations on the AMSAT-BB.  In
>addition to being very smart, he works well with people, and is Provost
>at Campbell University.  Mark is a very good friend and I have full
>confidence in him and his judgement.
>
>Paul Stoetzer, N8HM -- Paul has served as Secretary and as Executive
>Vice President of AMSAT.  He is a great operator, having given me a
>number of grids around Washington, DC and in Michigan.  I think he is
>at 486 confirmed of the 488 grids in the continental USA.  He has been
>a huge asset to AMSAT, getting the day-to-day work of the organization
>done, working on the website and store, filling in during Presidential
>absences, and assisting in the AMSAT Office in Kensington.  He is very
>smart and often answers questions on the AMSAT-BB and Twitter.  Paul is
>a good friend and I have full confidence in him and his judgement.
>
>Bruce Paige, KK5DO -- Bruce has handled the AMSAT awards for years and
>is a member of the BoD.  He also hosts a regular AMSAT net in Houston
>which is available over the Internet.  Now that he has retired from his
>day job, he is devoting additional time to supporting AMSAT and
>tutoring new operators.  Bruce is a friend and I have full confidence
>in him and his judgement.
>
>Howie DeFelice, AB2S -- I've met Howie at Dayton and have seen his
>posts on the AMSAT-BB and the Ground-Station mail lists.  I don't know
>Howie well enough to claim him as a friend, but I respect his technical
>expertise and appreciate the time he volunteers. 
>
>Bob McGwier, N4HY -- Bob has a long history with AMSAT, having served
>as VP of Engineering and as a member of the BoD.  He is incredibly
>smart.  He was one of the inventors of software-defined modems and
>software-defined radios.  Bob is a friend and I listen carefully when
>he speaks (or writes).  I'm uncertain where he wants to take AMSAT now.
>
>Jeff Johns, WE4B -- Jeff has given me a number of grids and I've
>returned the favor when I've been roving.  He has mentored his two
>young daughters who do a great job operating satellites.  It is always
>a thrill hearing them operate.  Jeff is a friend and I'm always happy
>when we make contact.  
>
>
>There has been lots of discussion, some quite heated and not always
>accurate, about transparency, legal expenses, and who isn't being
>cooperative.  As a result of attending parts of board meetings at the
>AMSAT Symposia, occasionally delivering reports to the BoD about Dayton
>on BoD teleconferences, and private conversations with AMSAT officers
>and BoD members, I feel I have a good understanding of the workings of
>the board and the issues at the core of the disagreements.  I share my
>observations below.
>
>To get to the point, I plan to vote for Mark Hammond, Paul Stoetzer,
>and Bruce Paige.
>
>
>The other members of the BoD are Jerry, Drew, Patrick, and Michelle.
>
>Jerry Buxton, N0JY -- Jerry is a member of the Board and is VP of
>Engineering.  He does a great job of organizing a bunch of engineering
>volunteers, supervising progress on a wide number of aspects of our
>designs, implementations, and launches.  There are far more engineering
>volunteers than you might imagine, and the technical challenges and
>regulatory requirements for new satellites going to higher orbits are
>daunting.  He is also our primary contact for unmanned launches by
>NASA.  Jerry is a friend and I have full confidence in him and his
>judgement.
>
>Drew Glasbrenner, KO4MA -- Drew is VP of Operations and a member of the
>board.  He vets potential launch providers and negotiates the fees for
>paid launches.  He also has invested countless hours and money as a
>Control Op for AMSAT's satellites.  He is also a regular operator and
>has collected over 1750 grids.  Drew is a friend and I have full
>confidence in him and his judgement.
>
>Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK -- My first QSO with Patrick was in 2011. 
>He's given me lots of grids and I've returned the favor by giving
>Patrick several grids while I've been roving.  He is constantly roving
>the southwest and represents AMSAT at numerous hamfests and club
>meetings.  He is one of our hardest working representatives for AMSAT. 
>Unfortunately, he got into a pointless conflict with Drew, KO4MA, over
>what should have been a trivial matter.  When Drew wouldn't capitulate,
>Patrick took his beef to Joe Spier, K6WAO, then the President of AMSAT.
>When Joe wouldn't discipline Drew, Patrick decided that Joe should be
>fired.  The situation went further downhill from there.  Patrick should
>be a tremendous asset to the BoD from his experience as a satellite
>operator and an AMSAT representative.  Unfortunately, that hasn't been
>the case, as he's fixated on revenge for perceived wrongs.  He's been a
>major contributor to the dysfunctional board meetings.  With a change
>of attitude, he could still be a major contributor to the board.  I
>still consider Patrick to be a friend.
>
>Michelle Thompson, W5NYV -- I met Michelle at Dayton in 2008 and was
>immediately impressed.  She is a very intelligent individual with a
>wide range of interests.  She is highly organized and excellent at
>engaging volunteers for her projects.  I was so impressed that I asked
>her to be the dinner speaker for the AMSAT/TAPR Banquet at Dayton in
>2016.  
>
>Unfortunately, Michelle sometime chooses to "Do what you want and ask
>forgiveness later."  She did it to me and put me in a terrible
>position.  
>
>I asked Michelle for help in creating a 3D printer design for a model
>of the Fox satellites.  I requested and received a CAD file of AO-85
>from AMSAT Engineering to help with this project.  Michelle and Paul
>Williamson, KB5MU, created the 3D printer model.  Michelle said they
>wanted to post the file on the Internet so others could use it.  I
>asked her to wait to make it public until I received permission from
>the AMSAT Board of Directors, since AMSAT is governed by ITAR.  She
>said OK, then posted it without waiting for permission.  This put me in
>a terrible position with AMSAT Engineering and the BoD.  As a result, I
>was really mad.  Fortunately for me, it worked out OK with Engineering
>and the BoD.  I'm not mad now, but I learned an important lesson about
>working with Michelle.
>
>Michelle has been a major contributor to the dysfunctional board
>meetings.  With a change of attitude, Michelle could still be a huge
>asset to the board.  I still consider her to be a friend.
>
>
>I learned from others that similar problems, "Do what you want and ask
>forgiveness later,"  had occurred before between AMSAT and Michelle. 
>So why the dirty laundry now?  Michelle gets elected to the board, then
>demands a list of all of the Non-Disclosure Agreements (NDAs) AMSAT has
>signed (for example, with NASA, launch providers, and potential
>satellite partners) *and* that they be made public.  Some, if not all
>of the NDAs state that the content of the NDA and its existence will
>not be disclosed by AMSAT.  (By the way, I know AMSAT has signed NDAs,
>but I don't know how many or with whom.)
>
>This puts the Board and the Officers in a terrible dilemma.  Do they
>share these confidential NDAs with the new board members who have
>publicly stated that they don't think NDAs need to be kept private? 
>What is the impact on AMSAT if NASA or a launch provider or another
>partner decides that AMSAT isn't a reliable organization that can be
>trusted not to share private information?  How do we get future AMSAT
>satellites to orbit if the free launches from NASA or paid launches
>from providers are no longer available to us?
>
>Of course, Michelle and Patrick spin this as the Board being
>uncooperative and not being transparent.
>
>
>Officers who are not elected board members:
>
>Joe Spier, K6WAO, past President -- Joe agreed to serve as President of
>AMSAT when Barry Baines, WD4ASW, decided to retire after a decade of
>leading AMSAT.  Joe threw himself into the position, did an excellent
>job of succeeding Barry, and moved the organization forward.  In
>addition to his huge time investment, Joe also contributed a
>significant amount of money to AMSAT and covered a lot of expenses he
>incurred traveling and promoting AMSAT.  I don't know why Joe resigned,
>but it wouldn't surprise me if he decided he didn't need to defend
>himself from lawsuits from new board members that didn't like the job
>he was doing.  This is, after all, a volunteer position.  Joe is a
>friend.
>
>Clayton Coleman, W5PFG, President -- After Joe resigned, Clayton
>stepped forward to fill the vacancy and was elected by the board. 
>Clayton was Secretary and a past member of the board.  He took the job
>of President to try to resolve the problems with a dysfunctional board
>and to try to save AMSAT.  (Yes, the situation is that dire.)  He has
>made some changes for the better, but is still struggling to solve the
>problems.  Clayton is a good friend and I have full confidence in him
>and his judgement.
>
>Robert Bankston, KE4AL, Treasurer and VP of User Services -- Robert is
>a relatively new member of AMSAT, but he's jumped in with both feet and
>made a huge contribution to the organization.  He hosted the Huntsville
>Symposium, roves on a regular basis, has resuscitated User Services,
>and also took over the job of Treasurer when Keith Baker, KB1SF,
>decided to retire.  He also spearheaded the new member portal,
>membership database, and online website for new and renewing
>membership.  Robert is a good friend and I have full confidence in him
>and his judgement.
>
>
>To conclude this too long dissertation, despite considerable headwinds
>and misinformation, AMSAT is making progress.  I plan to vote for Mark
>Hammond, Paul Stoetzer, and Bruce Paige with the expectation that AMSAT
>can continue to make additional progress.?
>
>73, Steve N9IP
>-- 
>Steve Belter, seb at wintek.com
> 
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From jeffrey.davis at mac.com  Tue Jul 14 21:11:50 2020
From: jeffrey.davis at mac.com (Jeff Davis)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 17:11:50 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
In-Reply-To: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
References: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
Message-ID: <14EE9298-3221-49F4-8197-680DAC1D4712@mac.com>

Great summation Steve. Thanks for taking time to thread all the pieces together. I agree with your conclusions and will be voting accordingly.

73, Jeff KE9V

> On Jul 14, 2020, at 4:08 PM, Stephen E. Belter via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> To conclude this too long dissertation, despite considerable headwinds and misinformation, AMSAT is making progress.  I plan to vote for Mark Hammond, Paul Stoetzer, and Bruce Paige with the expectation that AMSAT can continue to make additional progress.?
> 
> 73, Steve N9IP


From n8fgv at usa.net  Tue Jul 14 20:24:21 2020
From: n8fgv at usa.net (Daniel Schultz)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 16:24:21 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
Message-ID: <628ygNuXV7824Set.1594758261@web13.cms.usa.net>

> The benefit to Slack is having channels for each topic. In this case,
> discussion about Board Membership can be in it's own channel. People who
> are not interested are not required to read.

That is the basic problem with American politics today. Each of us can choose
our own news sources so that we hear only the news that we want to hear. When
the whole country tuned in to Uncle Walt (that's Walter Cronkite for you
younger folk) every night at 6:30, we still had disagreements but at least we
started out with the same facts. 

I'm sorry if you find these political matters distracting, but as I said
before, these satellites are not going to build themselves. They take extreme
effort and dedication from a lot of passionate people, and any time you have
more than a few of these type-A personalities assembled together, there will
be disagreements. 

Your support of AMSAT through your dues is important, but paying dues once a
year is not enough. You have to be an involved citizen of YOUR organization,
you have to keep up with issues, even political issues, and you have to cast
your vote wisely. And if you care enough to read Amsat-bb every day but you
are not an AMSAT member, why the heck not? We need your money, but more
importantly, we need your active participation.

73, Dan Schultz N8FGV




From skristof at etczone.com  Tue Jul 14 21:32:47 2020
From: skristof at etczone.com (Steve Kristoff)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 17:32:47 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
In-Reply-To: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
References: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
Message-ID: <4a39c79fcd8fd39498365686cfe4e19b@etczone.com>


As Stephen has painted them in a negative light, I hope we can hear from Patrick and Michelle concerning their perceptions of the events described by Stephen.

Steve AI9IN

?
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen E. Belter via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
Date: 07/14/20 16:30
To: AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)




From bruce at perens.com  Tue Jul 14 21:39:17 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 14:39:17 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
In-Reply-To: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
References: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOvswX23Z=-hVErSjR8WkNVf3NNmY-YQmCEfxvA8+QEU1A@mail.gmail.com>

I see a lot of "old space" vs. "new space" in what you wrote, Steve. To
start with:

Some, if not all of the NDAs state that the content of the NDA and its
existence will not be disclosed by AMSAT.

The big difference here is confidentiality vs. transparency. New space is
represented by organizations that are extremely transparent. LibreSpace
<https://libre.space/> is a good example: everything they do is 100% Open
Source, and they built the satellites that AMSAT-EA is launching, and a
huge worldwide ground station network. Those Genesis N and L satellites
<http://perens.com/static/AppliedIon/AMSAT-EA-Newsletter_11-2019.pdf> have
electric thrusters by Applied Ion Systems <https://appliedionsystems.com/>,
A USA-based researcher, also 100% Open Source. ORI is similar: USA based,
100% open.

About those thrusters. Those AMSAT-EA satellites are going to

Then, there is AMSAT. You imply (if not confirm) that AMSAT has agreements
so secret that they can't tell the membership that they exist.

Why are all of the other guys open? Because 100% openness is the only
strategy that protects you from ITAR/EAR and its equivalents in other
nations. It is proprietary research that is protected by ITAR, not the
stuff you publish. Ask commercial companies like 3D Robotics
<https://www.3dr.com/>, who have the US Government as *their major
customer,* and participate in Dronecode <https://www.dronecode.org/>
because 100% public disclosure is the only good way to get around ITAR.

There used to be a justification for AMSAT's secrecy, in that we thought
that nobody would launch our satellites if we didn't act like old space.
But those other organizations are getting more satellites launched than
AMSAT has been. They are also building more, and designing more.

It illustrates the problem that you were made afraid, by AMSAT's ITAR
preoccupation, to publicly distribute the plans for *a plastic model of the
appearance of a cubesat.* There just can't be anything that isn't public
knowledge about that.

If we all continue to vote for more of the same old stuff, I am convinced
that AMSAT will continue its slide toward bankruptcy and irrelevance, and
will have a smaller and smaller working group, and eventually there won't
be an AMSAT and the open guys will take over anyway. It would be much
better for AMSAT to join the present.

I will be voting for Bob and Howie, because they are unquestionable space
professionals with a long history of innovation, and after Tom steps down
we won't have anyone else who is close to Bob and Howie's level. And Jeff,
because while he's more of a regular ham than a rocket scientist, he is
open to the future where others are not.

    Thanks

    Bruce

From tucker at mcguireland.com  Tue Jul 14 21:42:49 2020
From: tucker at mcguireland.com (Tucker McGuire)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 17:42:49 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
In-Reply-To: <4a39c79fcd8fd39498365686cfe4e19b@etczone.com>
References: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
	<4a39c79fcd8fd39498365686cfe4e19b@etczone.com>
Message-ID: <CA+gmQJR1KG0F6O7aovxx_ezQOWQ1UyuCDZD+0sbR-OGbJwJqhA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Steve for that post.

Well worth the read. I trust Steve's judgement, as in the couple years I've
gotten to know him, he's the kind of guy that'd give you the shirt off of
his own back. Well spoken.

Best,
Tucker
W4FS/VE9FS

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 5:34 PM Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

>
> As Stephen has painted them in a negative light, I hope we can hear from
> Patrick and Michelle concerning their perceptions of the events described
> by Stephen.
>
> Steve AI9IN
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Stephen E. Belter via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
> Date: 07/14/20 16:30
> To: AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Tue Jul 14 22:26:04 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 15:26:04 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
In-Reply-To: <4a39c79fcd8fd39498365686cfe4e19b@etczone.com>
References: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
	<4a39c79fcd8fd39498365686cfe4e19b@etczone.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2V2=qtPA=wgYcT9nn62CJLKGVAYR3PhqVdSP943yOy=uw@mail.gmail.com>

OK.

I replied privately to Stephen.

He's wrong about some facts.

No "ITAR" issues were involved with that model. That is not how ITAR works.

He did not like the fact that it was intended to be posted for free for
anyone to use. Some wanted to assert "copyright" over it, put "AMSAT.ORG"
on the side of it, and control it in other ways. There were multiple
conversations about this, and legal consultation over the "copyright"
issue. I got a go-ahead from enough people on the board to publish it as
originally proposed and went on to the next thing.

The model since then has been used very effectively, remixed, augmented
with electronics, turned into a satellite tracker where one side is an LCD
display, entered in art shows, "launched" at a trebuchet event, and
thoroughly enjoyed.

It has also been completely ignored by leadership.

I am sorry Stephen's feelings were hurt by the open sourcing of a project.
These issues of control and hurt feelings surrounding control are
unfortunate.

After it was up, and there was some after-the-fact scramble, I offered to
take it back down. He left out that part.

The fact that this is brought up as a reason for voting any particular way
(I'm not even on the ballot) is a bit odd.

He endorses people that have shut down AMSAT board meetings entirely and
are completely unapologetic about it.

Is publishing a useful model - faster than he preferred - somehow worse
than derailing all deliberative venues for the entire organization, going
way over the authorized amount for FD Associates, and secretly hiring
lawyers?

There are some extremely high standards for some people, and very low ones
for others, in the letter Stephen wrote.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 2:44 PM Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

>
> As Stephen has painted them in a negative light, I hope we can hear from
> Patrick and Michelle concerning their perceptions of the events described
> by Stephen.
>
> Steve AI9IN
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Stephen E. Belter via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
> Date: 07/14/20 16:30
> To: AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From va3mw at portcredit.net  Tue Jul 14 22:35:44 2020
From: va3mw at portcredit.net (Michael Walker)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 18:35:44 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <628ygNuXV7824Set.1594758261@web13.cms.usa.net>
References: <628ygNuXV7824Set.1594758261@web13.cms.usa.net>
Message-ID: <CA+33ts6Hbe8dBOUQpFKy8kX6tBBaQ9y0bdK8ZGfwMC_fZRzmKg@mail.gmail.com>

I agree 100% with the Slack solution.

We use it for VHF Scatter and it is far superior to any other solution.
Unfortunately, you can't judge it until you have tried it.  You can't use
Email for real time coordination.

There already is a Slack Satellite channel setup on the VHF-Chat Channel
and it is active.

Mike va3mw

From bruce at perens.com  Tue Jul 14 21:46:23 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 14:46:23 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOvswX23Z=-hVErSjR8WkNVf3NNmY-YQmCEfxvA8+QEU1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
	<CAK2MWOvswX23Z=-hVErSjR8WkNVf3NNmY-YQmCEfxvA8+QEU1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOviRUcG6O0H2ONQwOZ7gEyyiB4SN_4Q4ZDhstX9zjBK=w@mail.gmail.com>

Oops, sorry to leave a piece out:

> About those thrusters. Those AMSAT-EA satellites are going to

They will do:

Orbit change.
Orbit maintenance.
Collision avoidance.
Deorbit.

That is not coming from AMSAT-NA or any non-Open organization.

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 2:39 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:

> I see a lot of "old space" vs. "new space" in what you wrote, Steve. To
> start with:
>
> Some, if not all of the NDAs state that the content of the NDA and its
> existence will not be disclosed by AMSAT.
>
> The big difference here is confidentiality vs. transparency. New space is
> represented by organizations that are extremely transparent. LibreSpace
> <https://libre.space/> is a good example: everything they do is 100% Open
> Source, and they built the satellites that AMSAT-EA is launching, and a
> huge worldwide ground station network. Those Genesis N and L satellites
> <http://perens.com/static/AppliedIon/AMSAT-EA-Newsletter_11-2019.pdf> have
> electric thrusters by Applied Ion Systems <https://appliedionsystems.com/>,
> A USA-based researcher, also 100% Open Source. ORI is similar: USA based,
> 100% open.
>
> About those thrusters. Those AMSAT-EA satellites are going to
>
> Then, there is AMSAT. You imply (if not confirm) that AMSAT has agreements
> so secret that they can't tell the membership that they exist.
>
> Why are all of the other guys open? Because 100% openness is the only
> strategy that protects you from ITAR/EAR and its equivalents in other
> nations. It is proprietary research that is protected by ITAR, not the
> stuff you publish. Ask commercial companies like 3D Robotics
> <https://www.3dr.com/>, who have the US Government as *their major
> customer,* and participate in Dronecode <https://www.dronecode.org/>
> because 100% public disclosure is the only good way to get around ITAR.
>
> There used to be a justification for AMSAT's secrecy, in that we thought
> that nobody would launch our satellites if we didn't act like old space.
> But those other organizations are getting more satellites launched than
> AMSAT has been. They are also building more, and designing more.
>
> It illustrates the problem that you were made afraid, by AMSAT's ITAR
> preoccupation, to publicly distribute the plans for *a plastic model of
> the appearance of a cubesat.* There just can't be anything that isn't
> public knowledge about that.
>
> If we all continue to vote for more of the same old stuff, I am convinced
> that AMSAT will continue its slide toward bankruptcy and irrelevance, and
> will have a smaller and smaller working group, and eventually there won't
> be an AMSAT and the open guys will take over anyway. It would be much
> better for AMSAT to join the present.
>
> I will be voting for Bob and Howie, because they are unquestionable space
> professionals with a long history of innovation, and after Tom steps down
> we won't have anyone else who is close to Bob and Howie's level. And Jeff,
> because while he's more of a regular ham than a rocket scientist, he is
> open to the future where others are not.
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Bruce
>
>

-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)

From peter at magicbug.co.uk  Tue Jul 14 22:46:56 2020
From: peter at magicbug.co.uk (Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL))
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 23:46:56 +0100
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <CA+33ts6Hbe8dBOUQpFKy8kX6tBBaQ9y0bdK8ZGfwMC_fZRzmKg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <628ygNuXV7824Set.1594758261@web13.cms.usa.net>
	<CA+33ts6Hbe8dBOUQpFKy8kX6tBBaQ9y0bdK8ZGfwMC_fZRzmKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFvUair1scEbgD-Ek1L+_BA839t4rZbysQdPDF3sZ5pWprKtVA@mail.gmail.com>

While I'm not a big slack fan, it's just yet another system you need to
monitor although works well perhaps when discussing satellite launches,
roves in real time, bit like the days of IRC.

Slack do offer non profits deals which I'm guessing AMSAT could look into
https://slack.com/intl/en-gb/help/articles/204368833-Slack-for-Charities

Peter, 2M0SQL

On Tue, 14 Jul 2020, 23:36 Michael Walker via AMSAT-BB, <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> I agree 100% with the Slack solution.
>
> We use it for VHF Scatter and it is far superior to any other solution.
> Unfortunately, you can't judge it until you have tried it.  You can't use
> Email for real time coordination.
>
> There already is a Slack Satellite channel setup on the VHF-Chat Channel
> and it is active.
>
> Mike va3mw
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From k9jkm at comcast.net  Tue Jul 14 22:48:47 2020
From: k9jkm at comcast.net (JoAnne K9JKM)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 17:48:47 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <CA+33ts6Hbe8dBOUQpFKy8kX6tBBaQ9y0bdK8ZGfwMC_fZRzmKg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <628ygNuXV7824Set.1594758261@web13.cms.usa.net>
	<CA+33ts6Hbe8dBOUQpFKy8kX6tBBaQ9y0bdK8ZGfwMC_fZRzmKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5F0E364F.1050500@comcast.net>

On 7/14/2020 5:35 PM, Michael Walker via AMSAT-BB wrote:

  > There already is a Slack Satellite channel setup on the VHF-Chat 
Channel and it is active.

There already is a satellite channel on the DMR Brandmeister 98006 
talkgroup and it is active. How many more splinters are we in favor of?

-- 
73 de JoAnne K9JKM
k9jkm at amsat.org


From skristof at etczone.com  Tue Jul 14 22:49:30 2020
From: skristof at etczone.com (Steve Kristoff)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 18:49:30 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-27
Message-ID: <31057e97a067a5e66a32f3b10fb74c52@etczone.com>


Did AO-27 shut down in the middle of a pass over N. America in the most recent pass a few minutes ago (or was it just me)?
I heard some folks and was ready to call, then nothing but static.

Steve AI9IN

?


From bruce at perens.com  Tue Jul 14 22:53:14 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 15:53:14 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2V2=qtPA=wgYcT9nn62CJLKGVAYR3PhqVdSP943yOy=uw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
	<4a39c79fcd8fd39498365686cfe4e19b@etczone.com>
	<CACvjz2V2=qtPA=wgYcT9nn62CJLKGVAYR3PhqVdSP943yOy=uw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOsBA=_pycBJ57wwfETTksOt-DjwDvfWPEO_He2q+ZUHrg@mail.gmail.com>

I am not entirely sure that it would have been copyrightable, in any case.

17 USC 102(b): In no case does copyright protection for an original work of
authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of
operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in
which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work.

Such things are the domain of patent rather than copyright. And we can
discuss another time why AMSAT should not pursue patents.

Of course, most people stick a copyright declaration on things without ever
understanding that. Don't try to take it to court.

From ke4al at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 14 23:44:03 2020
From: ke4al at yahoo.com (Robert Bankston)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 23:44:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOvswX23Z=-hVErSjR8WkNVf3NNmY-YQmCEfxvA8+QEU1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
	<CAK2MWOvswX23Z=-hVErSjR8WkNVf3NNmY-YQmCEfxvA8+QEU1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <444557115.1777279.1594770243985@mail.yahoo.com>

Bruce,
??
I know you only show up at election time, but AMSAT is NOT in financial trouble.? That was the false narrative Patrick, Michelle, and you spread in last year's election cycle.
??
Since you have been gone, please refer to AMSAT's Treasurer's Report, published March 18, 2020.??

amsat.org/amsat-treasurers-report/
? ??
AMSAT is on a solid financial footing and headed in the right direction.? Under the great leadership of our Officers, we have successfully reduced costs and on track to further reduce overhead by year's end, all while adding benefits for our members and expanding our educational outreach.? The level of our reserves, ability to generate more revenues than expenses, and ability to continue to grow our membership has AMSAT fiscally positioned to accept whatever challenges and opportunities tomorrow brings.
??
If you truely want to help AMSAT, please get your facts straight and STOP making false, defamatory statements.
??
Respectfully,
??
? Robert Bankston, CPA, KE4AL
? Treasurer
? Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)


From twjones85 at gmail.com  Tue Jul 14 23:52:09 2020
From: twjones85 at gmail.com (Tanner Jones)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 18:52:09 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-27
In-Reply-To: <31057e97a067a5e66a32f3b10fb74c52@etczone.com>
References: <31057e97a067a5e66a32f3b10fb74c52@etczone.com>
Message-ID: <50B268AC-22CF-4653-BDE5-B42F6AF88D48@gmail.com>

Steve,

Yes; it is on a 4-minute timer.

73,
Tanner

W9TWJ

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 14, 2020, at 6:43 PM, Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Did AO-27 shut down in the middle of a pass over N. America in the most recent pass a few minutes ago (or was it just me)?
> I heard some folks and was ready to call, then nothing but static.
> 
> Steve AI9IN
> 
>  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From skristof at etczone.com  Wed Jul 15 00:03:28 2020
From: skristof at etczone.com (Steve Kristoff)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 20:03:28 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-27
In-Reply-To: <50B268AC-22CF-4653-BDE5-B42F6AF88D48@gmail.com>
References: <31057e97a067a5e66a32f3b10fb74c52@etczone.com>
	<50B268AC-22CF-4653-BDE5-B42F6AF88D48@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fb36021452d67b19970742be395ef735@etczone.com>


Thank you for the info, Tanner.

Just my luck to hear it at 3 min. 50 sec.! How long does it stay off before it comes back on again? Or is there a tone or command required?

Steve AI9IN

?
----- Original Message -----
From: Tanner Jones (twjones85 at gmail.com)
Date: 07/14/20 19:52
To: Steve Kristoff (skristof at etczone.com)
Cc: AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AO-27

Steve,

Yes; it is on a 4-minute timer.

73,
Tanner

W9TWJ

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 14, 2020, at 6:43 PM, Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> ?
> Did AO-27 shut down in the middle of a pass over N. America in the most recent pass a few minutes ago (or was it just me)?
> I heard some folks and was ready to call, then nothing but static.
>
> Steve AI9IN
>
> ?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From kk5do at arrl.net  Wed Jul 15 00:12:18 2020
From: kk5do at arrl.net (Bruce)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 19:12:18 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Field Day results are due soon
References: <6b3be9fd-b30e-dd2f-1eda-cff46cf39b23.ref@arrl.net>
Message-ID: <6b3be9fd-b30e-dd2f-1eda-cff46cf39b23@arrl.net>

Time is drawing near. If you have not submitted your field day report, 
you still have a little bit of time left. They are due to me at kk5do at 
arrl.net or kk5do at amsat.org by Friday, July 17, 2020 at 11:59 PM. 
Even if you only made one contact, you can still submit.

73...bruce

-- 

Bruce Paige, KK5DO
                      
AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
AMSAT Board Member 2016-2020
   
ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
           
Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT*
Also live streaming MP3 at http://www.amsatnet.com
Podcast at http://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes
               
Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News
http://www.arrl.org

AMSAT on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/amsat


From jfitzgerald at alum.wpi.edu  Wed Jul 15 00:19:29 2020
From: jfitzgerald at alum.wpi.edu (Joseph B. Fitzgerald)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 00:19:29 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <CAFvUair1scEbgD-Ek1L+_BA839t4rZbysQdPDF3sZ5pWprKtVA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <628ygNuXV7824Set.1594758261@web13.cms.usa.net>
	<CA+33ts6Hbe8dBOUQpFKy8kX6tBBaQ9y0bdK8ZGfwMC_fZRzmKg@mail.gmail.com>,
	<CAFvUair1scEbgD-Ek1L+_BA839t4rZbysQdPDF3sZ5pWprKtVA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DM5PR22MB0825B1C7288B206BDF7C769B87610@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

For those that would like to develop proposals for alternatives to amsat-bb, note that there are presently 2550 subscribers. Turning off the mailing lists does not avoid any marginal costs - running GNU Mailman consumes only a tiny fraction of a single server's resources.

de KM1P Joe

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 01:09:36 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 21:09:36 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Open Source Policy
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOviRUcG6O0H2ONQwOZ7gEyyiB4SN_4Q4ZDhstX9zjBK=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
	<CAK2MWOvswX23Z=-hVErSjR8WkNVf3NNmY-YQmCEfxvA8+QEU1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOviRUcG6O0H2ONQwOZ7gEyyiB4SN_4Q4ZDhstX9zjBK=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c-Rkyxr0HBdNYh0vSuCHsw_snpygu7gTHOLWvX=cZNvZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Michelle / Bruce (et al),

Per your comments in "[amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)", i'd like
to pull the Open Source / ITAR Conversation into a separate thread,
because I think it's a good discussion to have.  It's really two
separate discussions but they do overlap now and then (and sometimes
in non-obvious ways).  I have independently dealt with the DDTC and
gone through the export permitting process for defense articles,
however I have never done so for AMSAT.  What is your perspective on
some of these questions:

1) How does AMSAT benefit by pursuing an open source policy?
2) What are the disadvantages of AMSAT pursuing an open source policy?
3) Say a new project was about to start, where should all the design
files, source code files, presentations, virtual machines, etc...
live?
4) What license would the items be released under (this one will be
interesting to me)?
4.a) Will the license be Free in a FreeRTOS or CGAL sortof way, where
it's free for non-commercial use?
5) How can satellite security be mitigated if the source is in the
public domain?

Those should be enough questions to kick off a conversation about it.
Also, there appears to be at least some AMSAT (related) code and such
up on the net already, it seems:
https://github.com/FaradayRF/Fox-1-MPPT
https://github.com/ac2cz/FoxTelem
https://github.com/phase4ground

It would be beneficial to hear-out what existing AMSAT engineers have
experienced:
6) Are you satisfied with the way AMSAT development currently takes
place or do you feel there is a need to change development practices?
7) Do you think AMSAT would benefit by adopting an open source policy
where all materials are placed in the public domain?
8) Can you see any landmines or pitfalls from doing so (technical,
legal, etc...)?

I wanted to ask about this, since it's mentioned constantly, but
OpenSource is a reasonably loose term that means different strokes to
different folks.  So, I at least wanted to ping everyone to learn
Exactly what they believe it means and ping the existing team to
determine their thoughts.

Oh, try not to backquote the email responses, I am numbering the
questions, so you can respond to the ones you want to respond to, as
you wish.

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO

From johnbrier at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 01:10:40 2020
From: johnbrier at gmail.com (John Brier)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 21:10:40 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-27
In-Reply-To: <50B268AC-22CF-4653-BDE5-B42F6AF88D48@gmail.com>
References: <31057e97a067a5e66a32f3b10fb74c52@etczone.com>
	<50B268AC-22CF-4653-BDE5-B42F6AF88D48@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALn0fKOKtj2+DHQq00nOFPfq7-hrJVd-Bb1brNV2d7DRtfjoKQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yes and the timer logic is explained on ao27.net. K7TAB put it into a
Google sheet and with it you can see exactly when it will be on during
a pass:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1U1bxpBHbQpwoTRx0KAf78VkJGsb2UQwUB7za8BC7hFw/edit#gid=328598742

73, John Brier KG4AKV

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 8:52 PM Tanner Jones via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
> Yes; it is on a 4-minute timer.
>
> 73,
> Tanner
>
> W9TWJ
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 14, 2020, at 6:43 PM, Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > ?
> > Did AO-27 shut down in the middle of a pass over N. America in the most recent pass a few minutes ago (or was it just me)?
> > I heard some folks and was ready to call, then nothing but static.
> >
> > Steve AI9IN
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From twjones85 at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 01:24:58 2020
From: twjones85 at gmail.com (Tanner Jones)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 20:24:58 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-27
In-Reply-To: <CALn0fKOKtj2+DHQq00nOFPfq7-hrJVd-Bb1brNV2d7DRtfjoKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31057e97a067a5e66a32f3b10fb74c52@etczone.com>
	<50B268AC-22CF-4653-BDE5-B42F6AF88D48@gmail.com>
	<CALn0fKOKtj2+DHQq00nOFPfq7-hrJVd-Bb1brNV2d7DRtfjoKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEr42QrHve=yno08ptit9XSZ4_nT3WzePhAtZFLD9XrK2bBCug@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks John for providing that link. I was looking for it and couldn't find
it.

73,
Tanner

W9TWJ

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 8:10 PM John Brier <johnbrier at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes and the timer logic is explained on ao27.net. K7TAB put it into a
> Google sheet and with it you can see exactly when it will be on during
> a pass:
>
>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1U1bxpBHbQpwoTRx0KAf78VkJGsb2UQwUB7za8BC7hFw/edit#gid=328598742
>
> 73, John Brier KG4AKV
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 8:52 PM Tanner Jones via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > Steve,
> >
> > Yes; it is on a 4-minute timer.
> >
> > 73,
> > Tanner
> >
> > W9TWJ
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Jul 14, 2020, at 6:43 PM, Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > ?
> > > Did AO-27 shut down in the middle of a pass over N. America in the
> most recent pass a few minutes ago (or was it just me)?
> > > I heard some folks and was ready to call, then nothing but static.
> > >
> > > Steve AI9IN
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From bruce at perens.com  Wed Jul 15 02:19:48 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 19:19:48 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Open Source Policy
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c-Rkyxr0HBdNYh0vSuCHsw_snpygu7gTHOLWvX=cZNvZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
	<CAK2MWOvswX23Z=-hVErSjR8WkNVf3NNmY-YQmCEfxvA8+QEU1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOviRUcG6O0H2ONQwOZ7gEyyiB4SN_4Q4ZDhstX9zjBK=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-Rkyxr0HBdNYh0vSuCHsw_snpygu7gTHOLWvX=cZNvZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOtoUsTb8uQTYDA6JazbfoFL+9LDhN5Z9OKrhwmkTEpf7A@mail.gmail.com>

Michelle, working for ORI, hired a lawyer to take up the ITAR matter with
the Federal Government, so she probably has some interesting information.

I have left your questions in, so that this will make sense to readers.

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 6:08 PM Joseph Armbruster <
josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:

> 1) How does AMSAT benefit by pursuing an open source policy?
>

Both ITAR and EAR have a carve-out regarding published research. EAR says
that things you publish on the Internet are not subject to the EAR. ITAR is
a bit more difficult, they want you to publish it in a journal or put it in
a library. There are lots of friendly college libraries who will put a
blu-ray disk on a shelf for you. And then, you don't have to deal with ITAR
regarding any digital data. You still have ITAR problems if you wish to
ship a satellite across a national border, so it is best to fabricate it in
the nation where it will be launched. And you must never provide defense
services, not even to the USA. That means if someone you know is clearly
working on a defense project asks a question on your mailing list, you need
to explain nicely that they should get that information elsewhere because
it would get you in trouble. And then tell the government. I think
the last one I dealt with was from a defense company in Pakistan asking
about Codec2. The government says thank you for reporting this, it's
important, but doesn't tell us any more.

The whole Open Source community operates this way, and has no problem with
ITAR. They are much bigger than AMSAT. And they make AI, cryptography, and
many other things that are listed on the United States Munitions List.

2) What are the disadvantages of AMSAT pursuing an open source policy?
>

It's really difficult to see any at this late date. Michelle and I have
been to NASA meetings where it is really clear that they embrace Open
Source internally. So does SpaceX, ULA less but Tory (CEO) is very easy to
talk with. ESA is all over Open Source and there is a Librespace guy in
European Central Bank who can make introductions for us. Legally, we could
even cooperate with nations on the embargoed list, but at that point I
would want explicit permission, no need to antagonize the government just
because the law allows you to do something.

3) Say a new project was about to start, where should all the design
> files, source code files, presentations, virtual machines, etc...
> live?
>

It's really easy to put everything on Github or Gitlab, in public mode. I
wrote a script that mirrors ORI's github repositories to its own server,
and we can just burn  a disc from that and put it in a library.

4) What license would the items be released under (this one will be
> interesting to me)?
>

The important thing is that everyone have the right to read. Then, you
satisfy the requirements in the ITAR and EAR carve-outs, *if *you also
publish it on the internet and make it available in a library. Libraries
often have web terminals, so I think that Internet is enough, but getting a
library to host a disc is easy. So even a Creative Commons license would be
adequate, but I suggest BSD if you want it to be available for commercial
use without getting modifications returned to the community, or GPL if you
would rather have modifications returned to the community. This is a short
explanation of Open Source licensing, and I could go into subtleties at
length.

I generally prefer that hardware designs be placed in the public domain.
Currently hardware is dubiously copyrightable due to 17 USC 102(b) and
court cases I could discuss at length too. It is not to our advantage for
courts to take our own example of attempting to copyright hardware designs
and decide that hardware designs are actually copyrightable.

4.a) Will the license be Free in a FreeRTOS or CGAL sortof way, where
> it's free for non-commercial use?
>

You can do that, since it is only necessary that it not be trade secret.
But everyone else doing this goes 100% Open Source, and we want to be able
to share their work and have them share ours. The fact that AMSAT-EA works
with Librespace and AMSAT-NA does not is suboptimal.

5) How can satellite security be mitigated if the source is in the
> public domain?
>

You mean command and control? The simplest answer is that you use
encryption to command the satellite, and you don't have to publish your
cryptographic key. It's data, not the software. However, I have a design
for terrestrial cryptographic signature that fits the FCC rules that
prohibit cryptography that *obscures the message. *Digital signature does
not obscure the message, it just authenticates it.

AMSAT used to use a secret data word and exclusive-OR to encrypt
communications.Very primitive and implemented in discrete logic chips. This
is explicitly permitted by FCC for satellites rather than terrestrial ham
radio. I would hope that we could do digital signature today.

> 6) Are you satisfied with the way AMSAT development currently takes place
or do you feel there is a need to change development practices?

My personal opinion is that a lot of the ITAR mess we are currently in
would go away if AMSAT went to a 100% Open Source policy like most of the
newer Amateur Space organizations. Unfortunately, we have engaged ITAR
attorneys who have only worked with proprietary companies, where trade
secret is necessary, and thus ITAR must apply. Open Source is new to them.

One of the most difficult jobs of a manager is managing legal counsel. Most
managers don't understand what counsel is saying OR what questions to ask.
And I have seen few managers that are equipped to push back or who even
understand that pushing back is possible. Sometimes you have to bring your
lawyer into new areas they have never explored - although that is less so
than 20 years ago when Open Source was new, and they are very likely to
give you the determinations that they made for some proprietary corporation
which are entirely wrong for your public benefit non-profit.

In my consulting business, which mainly services law firms and their
customers, I have met many attorneys who are up to speed on Open Source and
intellectual property. There are fewer attorneys who are up to speed on
Open Source and ITAR, and I would spend some time with them to discuss the
issues.


> 7) Do you think AMSAT would benefit by adopting an open source policy
> where all materials are placed in the public domain?
>

There are two "public domains". There is public domain in the sense of
copyright abandonment and patent and copyright expiration, and then ITAR
121 uses the words "public domain" to mean "public knowledge". In general
most Open Source communities do not use public domain, because the laws of
many nations, including the United States, do not actually define that an
affirmative dedication of a work to the public domain has legal meaning.
They define public domain only in the sense of copyright and patent
expiration. So, we have contrivances like the CC0 license to work around
that, which is a public domain declaration if the national law and court
likes that, but a liberal license otherwise. But most Open Source teams
would choose a very liberal license like the BSD, where the only real
requirements are that you preserve attribution (and everyone likes
attribution) and the license text. Or, you use the GPL where you want
companies to participate more, rather than just take your stuff and modify
it in private, never returning anything.

8) Can you see any landmines or pitfalls from doing so (technical,
> legal, etc...)?
>

I really put myself out there trying to attract the attention of the
Federal Government in protesting ORI's ITAR/EAR policy, and got no
interest. This may have been because of the Defense Distributed case, which
was about gun plans online, and I don't want to get into a 2nd
amendment discussion, but once the Federal Government lost that they didn't
have much to go after _us_ about.

The landmine is that if you need lawyers. If you don't do this, you also
need lawyers :-)

I wanted to ask about this, since it's mentioned constantly, but
> OpenSource is a reasonably loose term that means different strokes to
> different folks.


The Open Source Definition at Opensource.org is the one I wrote.

    Thanks

    Bruce
-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)

From bruce at perens.com  Wed Jul 15 02:38:01 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 19:38:01 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
In-Reply-To: <444557115.1777279.1594770243985@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
	<CAK2MWOvswX23Z=-hVErSjR8WkNVf3NNmY-YQmCEfxvA8+QEU1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<444557115.1777279.1594770243985@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOvEGF4x9qbEWpawXMN=CVo7m3oQoPKUXwL2P2gZ_2FfcA@mail.gmail.com>

Robert,

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 4:58 PM Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I know you only show up at election time
>

Snark if you want, but I am working on Amateur Space quite often. My latest
was the pocketqube ion thruster project, see
http://perens.com/static/AppliedIon/
where my work successfully raised the necessary funds and got the project
on its feet again.

AMSAT is on a solid financial footing and headed in the right direction.


Well, that is wonderful. But you must understand where my trepidation about
AMSAT's finances comes from, since AMSAT presidents in their annual reports
at AMSATs own meetings have been really grim about AMSAT's finances.

I also hear that around the start of April, you reported "Without cash
flows, we (AMSAT) can't afford to pay our bills." At which point AMSAT
applied for the government salary protection program. That is after the
report you just cited, isn't it? We are all suffering from COVID-19 related
austerity, and we can expect AMSAT to lose funds that it would have
received around conferences, etc., so best wishes with that.

    Thanks

    Bruce

From ka9p at aol.com  Wed Jul 15 03:15:38 2020
From: ka9p at aol.com (Scott McDonald)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 03:15:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT IP
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOsBA=_pycBJ57wwfETTksOt-DjwDvfWPEO_He2q+ZUHrg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
	<4a39c79fcd8fd39498365686cfe4e19b@etczone.com>
	<CACvjz2V2=qtPA=wgYcT9nn62CJLKGVAYR3PhqVdSP943yOy=uw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOsBA=_pycBJ57wwfETTksOt-DjwDvfWPEO_He2q+ZUHrg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1303525517.1298763.1594782938358@mail.yahoo.com>

Bruce-
As a member I have to take exception to most of?your note.
1) To oversimplify, non-standard original shapes much like the satellite model?often are?considered copyrightable, and the copyright vests in the creator when?the work is?created.?Notice and registration have much?to do with the right to sue and collect damages, among other things, but have nothing to do with the copyright vesting in the creator.
2) In my experience, it is?a rare organization that would be happy with a director having an informal discussion with "enough" other directors and then releasing its intellectual property.? And AMSAT should not be happy with it.? It might be OK in an open source world, but it certainly is not the norm elsewhere.? In this case it may have been fine, but it's hardly the model of responsible intellectual property stewardship.
3) Your opinion that AMSAT shouldn't pursue patents dumbfounds me.? While patents are often pursued where they shouldn't be, you can't make that naked statement a priori. You must appreciate AMSAT is blessed with a wealth of technical expertise and experience.? To suggest?AMSAT might not generate valuable, protectable?inventions in the course of?its work totally fails to recognize AMSAT's organizational capabilities.? 
If?AMSAT creates something that is commercially significant in the satellite field, protectable by any form of IP, that invention should not be disclosed to others until an informed decision is made as to its potential value.? If there is a good business case for protecting the asset, that should be done.? I expect?there are enough members that could do this work pro bono,?if the work could actually provide AMSAT with licensing income or leverage for collaboration opportunities.
I expect many AMSAT volunteers already know this from their work elsewhere, but figured it was worth mentioning, as its seems some folks may not.
Scott ka9p

From: Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
To: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle at gmail.com>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Sent: Tue, Jul 14, 2020 5:53 pm
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)

I am not entirely sure that it would have been copyrightable, in any case.

17 USC 102(b): In no case does copyright protection for an original work of
authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of
operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in
which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work.

Such things are the domain of patent rather than copyright. And we can
discuss another time why AMSAT should not pursue patents.

Of course, most people stick a copyright declaration on things without ever
understanding that. Don't try to take it to court.
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From howied231 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 15 03:49:54 2020
From: howied231 at hotmail.com (Howie DeFelice)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 03:49:54 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Candidate for BOD
Message-ID: <MN2PR14MB35179E88DC47CB61C3E91115E77E0@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

My name is Howie DeFelice, callsign AB2S and I am currently a second alternate director in AMSAT. I am running to seek a term as a full member of the Board of Directors. I ran for the office of director last year because I felt AMSAT needed some new blood with some new ideas. As an alternate director I got to observe from the sidelines, at least as much as I could since regular board meetings were suspended for the first time in the organization's history. I?m afraid my worst fears were true and the leadership of AMSAT really is a ?good ole boys club?.  When new people became part of the organization last year it went into hibernation mode. This effectively froze any possible new ideas that were different from the legacy members? long held beliefs. The only way forward for the organization is to change the composition of the board of directors. I would like to outline some of the small things that can be done that could have a positive impact on the organization. More information is available on my web site www.ab2s.freeservers.com<http://www.ab2s.freeservers.com> .


From bruce at perens.com  Wed Jul 15 03:51:21 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 20:51:21 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT IP
In-Reply-To: <1303525517.1298763.1594782938358@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
	<4a39c79fcd8fd39498365686cfe4e19b@etczone.com>
	<CACvjz2V2=qtPA=wgYcT9nn62CJLKGVAYR3PhqVdSP943yOy=uw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOsBA=_pycBJ57wwfETTksOt-DjwDvfWPEO_He2q+ZUHrg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303525517.1298763.1594782938358@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOuEs4HpRSHT2fDyiV8LQL6v6rDTPfE0+12Sc=ekQADV7A@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 8:18 PM Scott McDonald via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Bruce-
> As a member I have to take exception to most of your note.
> 1) To oversimplify, non-standard original shapes much like the satellite
> model often are considered copyrightable, and the copyright vests in the
> creator when the work is created. Notice and registration have much to do
> with the right to sue and collect damages, among other things, but have
> nothing to do with the copyright vesting in the creator.
>

Actually, I would think that the shapes are more the topic of design
patent. The case law around this applies to 2D fonts: the font file can be
copyrighted, but if one renders the font and traces the outline, that is
_not_ protected by copyright. The law has not entirely followed this for 3D
shapes, but in part that is because we don't have enough good cases about
them yet.

And then we have the matter of the *function* of the particular shape. The
overall cubesat shape is constrained by a standard and thus functional
rather than expressive and not copyright protectible. Something like a
parabolic antenna would be constrained by phyiscal law and thus again
functional rather than expressive and not copyright protectible.

Of course I'd love to write an expert report on this topic or help an
attorney argue all of this in court.


> 2) In my experience, it is a rare organization that would be happy with a
> director having an informal discussion with "enough" other directors and
> then releasing its intellectual property.


Is this about Michelle and the model? I am not going to argue that she
isn't headstrong, etc. It may be the kind of headstrong we need. There is
about 50 years of inertia to overcome.


> 3) Your opinion that AMSAT shouldn't pursue patents dumbfounds me.


Wow! No, I am going to stand by that one. First, AMSAT as a public benefit
non-profit should not be standing in the way of other people's research and
work. Second, if it does so, it will be subject to companies bringing their
patent portfolios to bear against AMSAT, which would entirely hobble
AMSAT's ability to build and launch satellites. Every software program and
I am sure everything as complex as a cubesat practices a patent claim that
is currently in force if never litigated. What we have right now is a sort
of tacit detante, which is the best we can do within current law. This is a
topic I have explored thoroughly for Open Source projects. Start to issue
patents to AMSAT, and we will be on the radar of very many companies with
larger portfolios than ours.

The only workable strategy would be a purely defensive portfolio, and I
can't see that it's worth the cost.

If AMSAT creates something that is commercially significant in the
> satellite field, protectable by any form of IP, that invention should not
> be disclosed to others until an informed decision is made as to its
> potential value.  If there is a good business case for protecting the
> asset, that should be done.  I expect there are enough members that could
> do this work pro bono, if the work could actually provide AMSAT with
> licensing income or leverage for collaboration opportunities.
>

The problem with all of this is that AMSAT has to bring lawsuits to enforce
its patents, and threaten to do so before anyone else would even consider
paying for a patent. A patent is simply a license to sue. Meanwhile, we
have to be 1000 times more careful to search patents about everything in
our satellites. No thank you.

I expect many AMSAT volunteers already know this from their work elsewhere,
> but figured it was worth mentioning, as its seems some folks may not.


I am sure that many people know something of the patent policy of their
companies. Most probably don't understand it fully. But that doesn't apply
to a public benefit non-profit, for sensible strategic reasons. This is one
of those areas where a corporate attorney could give us the entirely wrong
advice.

    Thanks

    Bruce

From kawfey at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 03:56:32 2020
From: kawfey at gmail.com (Sterling Mann)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 22:56:32 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <DM5PR22MB0825B1C7288B206BDF7C769B87610@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <628ygNuXV7824Set.1594758261@web13.cms.usa.net>
	<CA+33ts6Hbe8dBOUQpFKy8kX6tBBaQ9y0bdK8ZGfwMC_fZRzmKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFvUair1scEbgD-Ek1L+_BA839t4rZbysQdPDF3sZ5pWprKtVA@mail.gmail.com>
	<DM5PR22MB0825B1C7288B206BDF7C769B87610@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CACxCfFpeUxzg3SuBuRzrh6cRgeT9tY-8paOxbPbb1ydV1q8-=Q@mail.gmail.com>

I would not be a fan if the email list was removed in lieu of chat. They
coexist well in many venues. Email is good for some things, chat is good
for other things.

I was going to suggest Discord too, but A.) it's already been suggested B.)
it's already been found at fault for something C.) I see that someone else
already started a Discord AMSAT server (
https://signal-lounge.com/2020/05/23/new-discord-server-for-amateur-satellite-amsat/)
(although the link is invalid).

Also, this conversation sounds eerily familiar...oh yea:
https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2018-March/067425.html

73,
Sterling N0SSC

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 10:00 PM Joseph B. Fitzgerald via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> For those that would like to develop proposals for alternatives to
> amsat-bb, note that there are presently 2550 subscribers. Turning off the
> mailing lists does not avoid any marginal costs - running GNU Mailman
> consumes only a tiny fraction of a single server's resources.
>
> de KM1P Joe
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From glasbrenner at mindspring.com  Wed Jul 15 03:57:27 2020
From: glasbrenner at mindspring.com (Andrew Glasbrenner)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 23:57:27 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-92 Mode L/v postponed
Message-ID: <01f701d65a5c$0e389a90$2aa9cfb0$@mindspring.com>

I placed AO-92 in Mode L/v this evening at 0302Z. I tested the L band uplink
and it was fine. About 6 minutes later and after I had quit listening, the
voltage on the satellite dipped below 3.6v and it went into auto safe mode
very briefly before exiting eclipse and rebounding. When entering auto safe
mode, the L converter is reset to off. So, despite the mode change we are
back into U/v. In a way this is good because auto safe mode is doing its job
protecting the batteries from over discharge.

 

Until I can work with the engineering team as to the best way forward, we'll
have to postpone L/v for now. Sorry, and I'll share more when I know it.

 

73, Drew KO4MA

AMSAT VP Operations

 


From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 04:14:55 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 21:14:55 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT IP
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOuEs4HpRSHT2fDyiV8LQL6v6rDTPfE0+12Sc=ekQADV7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
	<4a39c79fcd8fd39498365686cfe4e19b@etczone.com>
	<CACvjz2V2=qtPA=wgYcT9nn62CJLKGVAYR3PhqVdSP943yOy=uw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOsBA=_pycBJ57wwfETTksOt-DjwDvfWPEO_He2q+ZUHrg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303525517.1298763.1594782938358@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAK2MWOuEs4HpRSHT2fDyiV8LQL6v6rDTPfE0+12Sc=ekQADV7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2UqDOHTnY+39s0x4+bRwouAFPgAMA5SU8tp60pCB40aJQ@mail.gmail.com>

Since we are talking about IP, let me turn your attention to some actual
problems with intellectual property management at AMSAT.

For example, an entire custom set of HDL cores, donated to AMSAT by
Comtech/AHA, was lost. The NDA was neglected and literally lost until I
brought it up. I insisted Joe Spier go find it for the 2019 annual meeting.

Worse, the license for the community accessible version with GNU Radio
simply not managed. That community totally lost out on something that was
supposed to come to them through this work.

This entire block of IP was simply squandered. Did someone end up with it
that should not have? Because it helps digital modes, was it just
gobblygook to engineering leadership?

If we can't manage this type of data, then how do you think we are doing
managing more important things with harsher repercussions?

Unlike files that describe a toy plastic model, this was advanced error
correcting and control code, designed for space applications, that actually
put us well ahead of many chip manufacturers at the time.

If you want this sort of waste to change, then please vote for Howie
DeFelice, Jeff Johns, and Robert McGwier.

Why? Because the incumbents blindly support the officers that lost this IP,
and will simply re-appoint all of those officers if they win.

AMSAT got this gift, primarily because of Robert McGwier. One of his
students spent the summer doing the work with AHA mentoring him.

Howie DeFelice works in the commercial satellite world and would simply
never let valuable IP walk out the door or fall on the floor.

Jeff Johns is a trained consultant in quality and accountability systems.
People like him annoy the tar out of me at work because I can't get away
with flushing IP down a toilet or giving it to my friends in violation of
an NDA.

Yes, I'm headstrong. But I'm not stupid. Problems like this are what we
should be caring about and voting on, instead of plastic toys.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 8:51 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 8:18 PM Scott McDonald via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> Bruce-
>> As a member I have to take exception to most of your note.
>> 1) To oversimplify, non-standard original shapes much like the satellite
>> model often are considered copyrightable, and the copyright vests in the
>> creator when the work is created. Notice and registration have much to do
>> with the right to sue and collect damages, among other things, but have
>> nothing to do with the copyright vesting in the creator.
>>
>
> Actually, I would think that the shapes are more the topic of design
> patent. The case law around this applies to 2D fonts: the font file can be
> copyrighted, but if one renders the font and traces the outline, that is
> _not_ protected by copyright. The law has not entirely followed this for 3D
> shapes, but in part that is because we don't have enough good cases about
> them yet.
>
> And then we have the matter of the *function* of the particular shape.
> The overall cubesat shape is constrained by a standard and thus functional
> rather than expressive and not copyright protectible. Something like a
> parabolic antenna would be constrained by phyiscal law and thus again
> functional rather than expressive and not copyright protectible.
>
> Of course I'd love to write an expert report on this topic or help an
> attorney argue all of this in court.
>
>
>> 2) In my experience, it is a rare organization that would be happy with a
>> director having an informal discussion with "enough" other directors and
>> then releasing its intellectual property.
>
>
> Is this about Michelle and the model? I am not going to argue that she
> isn't headstrong, etc. It may be the kind of headstrong we need. There is
> about 50 years of inertia to overcome.
>
>
>> 3) Your opinion that AMSAT shouldn't pursue patents dumbfounds me.
>
>
> Wow! No, I am going to stand by that one. First, AMSAT as a public benefit
> non-profit should not be standing in the way of other people's research and
> work. Second, if it does so, it will be subject to companies bringing their
> patent portfolios to bear against AMSAT, which would entirely hobble
> AMSAT's ability to build and launch satellites. Every software program and
> I am sure everything as complex as a cubesat practices a patent claim that
> is currently in force if never litigated. What we have right now is a sort
> of tacit detante, which is the best we can do within current law. This is a
> topic I have explored thoroughly for Open Source projects. Start to issue
> patents to AMSAT, and we will be on the radar of very many companies with
> larger portfolios than ours.
>
> The only workable strategy would be a purely defensive portfolio, and I
> can't see that it's worth the cost.
>
> If AMSAT creates something that is commercially significant in the
>> satellite field, protectable by any form of IP, that invention should not
>> be disclosed to others until an informed decision is made as to its
>> potential value.  If there is a good business case for protecting the
>> asset, that should be done.  I expect there are enough members that could
>> do this work pro bono, if the work could actually provide AMSAT with
>> licensing income or leverage for collaboration opportunities.
>>
>
> The problem with all of this is that AMSAT has to bring lawsuits to
> enforce its patents, and threaten to do so before anyone else would even
> consider paying for a patent. A patent is simply a license to sue.
> Meanwhile, we have to be 1000 times more careful to search patents about
> everything in our satellites. No thank you.
>
> I expect many AMSAT volunteers already know this from their work
>> elsewhere, but figured it was worth mentioning, as its seems some folks may
>> not.
>
>
> I am sure that many people know something of the patent policy of their
> companies. Most probably don't understand it fully. But that doesn't apply
> to a public benefit non-profit, for sensible strategic reasons. This is one
> of those areas where a corporate attorney could give us the entirely wrong
> advice.
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Bruce
>

From ka9p at aol.com  Wed Jul 15 05:05:58 2020
From: ka9p at aol.com (Scott McDonald)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 00:05:58 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT IP
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2UqDOHTnY+39s0x4+bRwouAFPgAMA5SU8tp60pCB40aJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2UqDOHTnY+39s0x4+bRwouAFPgAMA5SU8tp60pCB40aJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47B62B71-B480-4ED1-A9DD-676F797F3D55@aol.com>

Michelle, I understand your points.

But the solution in real life is rarely to toss out the existing team.  You might get a manager fired, but the team is too valuable.

If you see something, say something.  So far so good.  But then identify and explain the risk, get buy-in and proactively do something to get everyone trained to respect and manage the issue.  

In my experience re-elected board members tend to find a way to make good things happen, even against the odds.

Scott Ka9p



Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 14, 2020, at 11:15 PM, Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Since we are talking about IP, let me turn your attention to some actual problems with intellectual property management at AMSAT. 
> 
> For example, an entire custom set of HDL cores, donated to AMSAT by Comtech/AHA, was lost. The NDA was neglected and literally lost until I brought it up. I insisted Joe Spier go find it for the 2019 annual meeting. 
> 
> Worse, the license for the community accessible version with GNU Radio simply not managed. That community totally lost out on something that was supposed to come to them through this work. 
> 
> This entire block of IP was simply squandered. Did someone end up with it that should not have? Because it helps digital modes, was it just gobblygook to engineering leadership? 
> 
> If we can't manage this type of data, then how do you think we are doing managing more important things with harsher repercussions? 
> 
> Unlike files that describe a toy plastic model, this was advanced error correcting and control code, designed for space applications, that actually put us well ahead of many chip manufacturers at the time. 
> 
> If you want this sort of waste to change, then please vote for Howie DeFelice, Jeff Johns, and Robert McGwier. 
> 
> Why? Because the incumbents blindly support the officers that lost this IP, and will simply re-appoint all of those officers if they win. 
> 
> AMSAT got this gift, primarily because of Robert McGwier. One of his students spent the summer doing the work with AHA mentoring him. 
> 
> Howie DeFelice works in the commercial satellite world and would simply never let valuable IP walk out the door or fall on the floor. 
> 
> Jeff Johns is a trained consultant in quality and accountability systems. People like him annoy the tar out of me at work because I can't get away with flushing IP down a toilet or giving it to my friends in violation of an NDA.
> 
> Yes, I'm headstrong. But I'm not stupid. Problems like this are what we should be caring about and voting on, instead of plastic toys. 
> 
> -Michelle W5NYV
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 8:51 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 8:18 PM Scott McDonald via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Bruce-
>>> As a member I have to take exception to most of your note.
>>> 1) To oversimplify, non-standard original shapes much like the satellite model often are considered copyrightable, and the copyright vests in the creator when the work is created. Notice and registration have much to do with the right to sue and collect damages, among other things, but have nothing to do with the copyright vesting in the creator.
>> 
>> Actually, I would think that the shapes are more the topic of design patent. The case law around this applies to 2D fonts: the font file can be copyrighted, but if one renders the font and traces the outline, that is _not_ protected by copyright. The law has not entirely followed this for 3D shapes, but in part that is because we don't have enough good cases about them yet.
>> 
>> And then we have the matter of the function of the particular shape. The overall cubesat shape is constrained by a standard and thus functional rather than expressive and not copyright protectible. Something like a parabolic antenna would be constrained by phyiscal law and thus again functional rather than expressive and not copyright protectible.
>> 
>> Of course I'd love to write an expert report on this topic or help an attorney argue all of this in court.
>>  
>>> 2) In my experience, it is a rare organization that would be happy with a director having an informal discussion with "enough" other directors and then releasing its intellectual property.
>> 
>> Is this about Michelle and the model? I am not going to argue that she isn't headstrong, etc. It may be the kind of headstrong we need. There is about 50 years of inertia to overcome.
>>  
>>> 3) Your opinion that AMSAT shouldn't pursue patents dumbfounds me.
>> 
>> Wow! No, I am going to stand by that one. First, AMSAT as a public benefit non-profit should not be standing in the way of other people's research and work. Second, if it does so, it will be subject to companies bringing their patent portfolios to bear against AMSAT, which would entirely hobble AMSAT's ability to build and launch satellites. Every software program and I am sure everything as complex as a cubesat practices a patent claim that is currently in force if never litigated. What we have right now is a sort of tacit detante, which is the best we can do within current law. This is a topic I have explored thoroughly for Open Source projects. Start to issue patents to AMSAT, and we will be on the radar of very many companies with larger portfolios than ours.
>> 
>> The only workable strategy would be a purely defensive portfolio, and I can't see that it's worth the cost.
>> 
>>> If AMSAT creates something that is commercially significant in the satellite field, protectable by any form of IP, that invention should not be disclosed to others until an informed decision is made as to its potential value.  If there is a good business case for protecting the asset, that should be done.  I expect there are enough members that could do this work pro bono, if the work could actually provide AMSAT with licensing income or leverage for collaboration opportunities.
>> 
>> The problem with all of this is that AMSAT has to bring lawsuits to enforce its patents, and threaten to do so before anyone else would even consider paying for a patent. A patent is simply a license to sue. Meanwhile, we have to be 1000 times more careful to search patents about everything in our satellites. No thank you.
>> 
>>> I expect many AMSAT volunteers already know this from their work elsewhere, but figured it was worth mentioning, as its seems some folks may not.
>> 
>> I am sure that many people know something of the patent policy of their companies. Most probably don't understand it fully. But that doesn't apply to a public benefit non-profit, for sensible strategic reasons. This is one of those areas where a corporate attorney could give us the entirely wrong advice.
>> 
>>     Thanks
>> 
>>     Bruce 

From clintbradford at mac.com  Wed Jul 15 07:27:00 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 00:27:00 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] =?utf-8?q?Who_I=E2=80=99m_NOT_Voting_For_=28Short=29?=
Message-ID: <351DD49D-DF83-4E60-ABE5-0F8914F1666A@mac.com>

Patrick and Jeff created a Web site In 2018 using my Web site?s name - but added the plural of my work-sat.com - they used ?Sats.?

The site was solely created to demean myself and Gordon West. The posts were obscene, vile, insulting, and vicious in their attacks. Most of their posts are too objectionable to post on a public forum like this: posts like two rats fornicating and writing that my satellite inquiry phone number of 800-999-SATS could also use the alpha characters, 800-999-RATS.

If anyone is interested in reading screenshots of their work, I will privately email them to you. 

Stoddard and Johns will not be receiving my vote. 

Clint Bradford K6LCS
909-999-SATS

PS They let the GoDaddy domain name expire after a year. I registered it immediately - and it is now redirected to my site.

From propgrinder at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 13:12:18 2020
From: propgrinder at gmail.com (Bob Hammond)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 06:12:18 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Candidate for BOD
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR14MB35179E88DC47CB61C3E91115E77E0@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MN2PR14MB35179E88DC47CB61C3E91115E77E0@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAKoB7OrKT8YfcXwAq3McLtWmhdUEQ4T=3qo7Ls4Kx35Q+OQKWg@mail.gmail.com>

Howie,

I'd like a bit more background, please.  What do you do in real life?
Employment, education, etc?

Bob W7OTJ

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 1:53 AM Howie DeFelice via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> My name is Howie DeFelice, callsign AB2S and I am currently a second
> alternate director in AMSAT. I am running to seek a term as a full member
> of the Board of Directors. I ran for the office of director last year
> because I felt AMSAT needed some new blood with some new ideas. As an
> alternate director I got to observe from the sidelines, at least as much as
> I could since regular board meetings were suspended for the first time in
> the organization's history. I?m afraid my worst fears were true and the
> leadership of AMSAT really is a ?good ole boys club?.  When new people
> became part of the organization last year it went into hibernation mode.
> This effectively froze any possible new ideas that were different from the
> legacy members? long held beliefs. The only way forward for the
> organization is to change the composition of the board of directors. I
> would like to outline some of the small things that can be done that could
> have a positive impact on the organization. More information is available
> on my web site www.ab2s.freeservers.com<http://www.ab2s.freeservers.com> .
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From skristof at etczone.com  Wed Jul 15 13:37:06 2020
From: skristof at etczone.com (Steve Kristoff)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 09:37:06 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Candidate for BOD
In-Reply-To: <CAKoB7OrKT8YfcXwAq3McLtWmhdUEQ4T=3qo7Ls4Kx35Q+OQKWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <MN2PR14MB35179E88DC47CB61C3E91115E77E0@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAKoB7OrKT8YfcXwAq3McLtWmhdUEQ4T=3qo7Ls4Kx35Q+OQKWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a8128d5d8ed34595d70f6ee746d6d78f@etczone.com>


A quick Google search came up with this: https://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Candidate%20Statement%20HD.pdf

Steve AI9IN

?
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
Date: 07/15/20 09:14
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Candidate for BOD

Howie,

I'd like a bit more background, please. ?What do you do in real life?
Employment, education, etc?

Bob W7OTJ

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 1:53 AM Howie DeFelice via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

>


From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 14:22:07 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 10:22:07 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Open Source Policy
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOtoUsTb8uQTYDA6JazbfoFL+9LDhN5Z9OKrhwmkTEpf7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
	<CAK2MWOvswX23Z=-hVErSjR8WkNVf3NNmY-YQmCEfxvA8+QEU1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOviRUcG6O0H2ONQwOZ7gEyyiB4SN_4Q4ZDhstX9zjBK=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-Rkyxr0HBdNYh0vSuCHsw_snpygu7gTHOLWvX=cZNvZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtoUsTb8uQTYDA6JazbfoFL+9LDhN5Z9OKrhwmkTEpf7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c84Fai5VG694jL+pvhP9jiFz0vmMojsSxfL9B3qS2GULg@mail.gmail.com>

Bruce,

You did not really answer the first question: "How does AMSAT benefit
by pursuing an open source policy?"  The question is really unrelated
to EAR/ITAR.  What i'm wondering is, if AMSAT published all of its
hardware and software designs for everything, how does this benefit
AMSAT?  This is probably the most important question from an
organizational standpoint.

I had been through a similar discussion with a private company that I
worked for about a 3D visualization / Earth rendering product that was
developed by the company.  It was a product that was similar to Google
Earth and could easily compete with it from a rendering / efficiency /
user experience standpoint.  The question was: Do we open source the
software and give it out to the world to attract more people to the
product / generate a new ecosystem for publicity, or do we keep it
closed and generate revenue off custom software services.  The company
chose option 2.  The bottom line was, if we put all the source out in
the open, most engineering types would not pay us anything, even if we
did an open/commercial licensing scheme.  Because, let's be honest,
generally speaking, no-one wants to pay for anything, and that is
especially true in the OSS world.  And even when you ask people to pay
for something, they find clever ways to work around licensing and rip
you off.  I think consulting services become more practical, when the
technology that is being utilized is more technically challenging and
there are deadlines involved.  That's why certain OSS products can use
that model (of course, there are not many consulting opportunities for
libtiff know-how :-).

One comment on what you said about GPL "you use the GPL where you want
companies to participate more, rather than just take your stuff and
modify it in private, never returning anything."  This is a common
misunderstanding / mis-representation of what the GPL does.  Companies
are not required to 'return anything'.  It only protects the rights of
down-stream recipients, not up-stream.  Examples in case others
reading are not aware of this:

- If an organization downloads, compiles and integrates a GPL
libWhatever onto a chip in a satellite and the satellite is launched
into space, there is no downstream recipient of the binaries.  The
changes can remain within the private organization ad-infinitum.  The
hardware floats around in a vaccum, maybe burns up in the atmosphere
and we end up breathing it, outside of that, nothing needs to be given
back to the community.

- If I download, compile and integrate a GPL libWhatever onto a chip
and then deliver the binary to say a University team for integration
or to a customer for use.  Then, the University team or customer has a
Right to be able to edit the source, etc... Their rights to
edit/modify are protected.  But, that still doesn't mean the creator
of libWhatever is guaranteed to receive anything back.

AMSAT could establish an open source policy that would only provide
licensed code to parties/organizations that agreed to integrate
according to their terms and conditions.  These terms and conditions
could be contingent upon AMSAT being a downstream-recipient of the
software/hardware source/designs (work-products, etc...)  This would
establish a symbiotic relationship between AMSAT and others with
mutual benefit.  Others wish to utilize AMSATs software/hardware
stack, integration know-how, etc... and AMSAT would be guaranteed to
be on the receiving end of the changes.  AMSAT could also establish
something like others have, where they have a licensed version that is
not-permitted-to-fly and a "Pay-For" version that allows you to fly
it.  It's an interesting idea and along the lines of what several
other OSS projects do with dual oss, commercial options.

On the whole protesting of ITAR/EAR and Defense Distributed, when you
say the Federal Government lost, from a practical standpoint, that's
not really true.  Legal hardship is real.  The end result was a
private organization, unnecessarily being jerked around by the fed in
a politically-motivated legal attack.  And then, being jerked-around
again, by several states.  That cost them and it is still costing
them, time and money.  The organization could not function during that
period and is now forced to function differently.  Rules were
re-written by the DOS, there was an ad-hoc "settlement" including an
'exclusive license'.  Isn't that awesome that a company is given an
'exclusive license' after being jerked around vs, just being left
alone in the first place?  Also, Defcad requires you to create a
login, submit Personally Identifiiable info (PII) to them (ID,
etc...), etc... before you download anything from them.  That's, NOT
Open.  I am not certain what they would do if a non-US Person
attempted to sign up.  It's antithetical to a true, public open source
process really.  If anything, this case is a shining example of why an
organization Should:

i) be very selective about what is publicized
ii) work very cautiously with others in a way that reduces risk

Basically, how AMSAT appears to operate right now.  Why? Because if
the wrong politically-motivated person in the Department of Whatever
(or friend of a girlfriend of a mistress of whomever) gets an itch,
they can make your life a living hell.  And, while they sit back and
collect a paycheck and have their pension well-funded during that time
frame... You're left with a ruling in your favor (yaay!) but
financially strapped, physically deteriorated due the stress and
likely out of business.  This doesn't just happen in the ITAR realm
either, look at what happened to the buckyballs company that sold the
little magnets that you could build little structures out of.  They
got dragged through the mud for years, for literally selling little
round magnets...

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 10:20 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>
> Michelle, working for ORI, hired a lawyer to take up the ITAR matter with the Federal Government, so she probably has some interesting information.
>
> I have left your questions in, so that this will make sense to readers.
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 6:08 PM Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 1) How does AMSAT benefit by pursuing an open source policy?
>
>
> Both ITAR and EAR have a carve-out regarding published research. EAR says that things you publish on the Internet are not subject to the EAR. ITAR is a bit more difficult, they want you to publish it in a journal or put it in a library. There are lots of friendly college libraries who will put a blu-ray disk on a shelf for you. And then, you don't have to deal with ITAR regarding any digital data. You still have ITAR problems if you wish to ship a satellite across a national border, so it is best to fabricate it in the nation where it will be launched. And you must never provide defense services, not even to the USA. That means if someone you know is clearly working on a defense project asks a question on your mailing list, you need to explain nicely that they should get that information elsewhere because it would get you in trouble. And then tell the government. I think the last one I dealt with was from a defense company in Pakistan asking about Codec2. The government says thank you for reporting this, it's important, but doesn't tell us any more.
>
> The whole Open Source community operates this way, and has no problem with ITAR. They are much bigger than AMSAT. And they make AI, cryptography, and many other things that are listed on the United States Munitions List.
>
>> 2) What are the disadvantages of AMSAT pursuing an open source policy?
>
>
> It's really difficult to see any at this late date. Michelle and I have been to NASA meetings where it is really clear that they embrace Open Source internally. So does SpaceX, ULA less but Tory (CEO) is very easy to talk with. ESA is all over Open Source and there is a Librespace guy in European Central Bank who can make introductions for us. Legally, we could even cooperate with nations on the embargoed list, but at that point I would want explicit permission, no need to antagonize the government just because the law allows you to do something.
>
>> 3) Say a new project was about to start, where should all the design
>> files, source code files, presentations, virtual machines, etc...
>> live?
>
>
> It's really easy to put everything on Github or Gitlab, in public mode. I wrote a script that mirrors ORI's github repositories to its own server, and we can just burn  a disc from that and put it in a library.
>
>> 4) What license would the items be released under (this one will be
>> interesting to me)?
>
>
> The important thing is that everyone have the right to read. Then, you satisfy the requirements in the ITAR and EAR carve-outs, if you also publish it on the internet and make it available in a library. Libraries often have web terminals, so I think that Internet is enough, but getting a library to host a disc is easy. So even a Creative Commons license would be adequate, but I suggest BSD if you want it to be available for commercial use without getting modifications returned to the community, or GPL if you would rather have modifications returned to the community. This is a short explanation of Open Source licensing, and I could go into subtleties at length.
>
> I generally prefer that hardware designs be placed in the public domain. Currently hardware is dubiously copyrightable due to 17 USC 102(b) and court cases I could discuss at length too. It is not to our advantage for courts to take our own example of attempting to copyright hardware designs and decide that hardware designs are actually copyrightable.
>
>> 4.a) Will the license be Free in a FreeRTOS or CGAL sortof way, where
>> it's free for non-commercial use?
>
>
> You can do that, since it is only necessary that it not be trade secret.  But everyone else doing this goes 100% Open Source, and we want to be able to share their work and have them share ours. The fact that AMSAT-EA works with Librespace and AMSAT-NA does not is suboptimal.
>
>> 5) How can satellite security be mitigated if the source is in the
>> public domain?
>
>
> You mean command and control? The simplest answer is that you use encryption to command the satellite, and you don't have to publish your cryptographic key. It's data, not the software. However, I have a design for terrestrial cryptographic signature that fits the FCC rules that prohibit cryptography that obscures the message. Digital signature does not obscure the message, it just authenticates it.
>
> AMSAT used to use a secret data word and exclusive-OR to encrypt communications.Very primitive and implemented in discrete logic chips. This is explicitly permitted by FCC for satellites rather than terrestrial ham radio. I would hope that we could do digital signature today.
>
> > 6) Are you satisfied with the way AMSAT development currently takes place or do you feel there is a need to change development practices?
>
> My personal opinion is that a lot of the ITAR mess we are currently in would go away if AMSAT went to a 100% Open Source policy like most of the newer Amateur Space organizations. Unfortunately, we have engaged ITAR attorneys who have only worked with proprietary companies, where trade secret is necessary, and thus ITAR must apply. Open Source is new to them.
>
> One of the most difficult jobs of a manager is managing legal counsel. Most managers don't understand what counsel is saying OR what questions to ask. And I have seen few managers that are equipped to push back or who even understand that pushing back is possible. Sometimes you have to bring your lawyer into new areas they have never explored - although that is less so than 20 years ago when Open Source was new, and they are very likely to give you the determinations that they made for some proprietary corporation which are entirely wrong for your public benefit non-profit.
>
> In my consulting business, which mainly services law firms and their customers, I have met many attorneys who are up to speed on Open Source and intellectual property. There are fewer attorneys who are up to speed on Open Source and ITAR, and I would spend some time with them to discuss the issues.
>
>>
>> 7) Do you think AMSAT would benefit by adopting an open source policy
>> where all materials are placed in the public domain?
>
>
> There are two "public domains". There is public domain in the sense of copyright abandonment and patent and copyright expiration, and then ITAR 121 uses the words "public domain" to mean "public knowledge". In general most Open Source communities do not use public domain, because the laws of many nations, including the United States, do not actually define that an affirmative dedication of a work to the public domain has legal meaning. They define public domain only in the sense of copyright and patent expiration. So, we have contrivances like the CC0 license to work around that, which is a public domain declaration if the national law and court likes that, but a liberal license otherwise. But most Open Source teams would choose a very liberal license like the BSD, where the only real requirements are that you preserve attribution (and everyone likes attribution) and the license text. Or, you use the GPL where you want companies to participate more, rather than just take your stuff and modify it in private, never returning anything.
>
>> 8) Can you see any landmines or pitfalls from doing so (technical,
>> legal, etc...)?
>
>
> I really put myself out there trying to attract the attention of the Federal Government in protesting ORI's ITAR/EAR policy, and got no interest. This may have been because of the Defense Distributed case, which was about gun plans online, and I don't want to get into a 2nd amendment discussion, but once the Federal Government lost that they didn't have much to go after _us_ about.
>
> The landmine is that if you need lawyers. If you don't do this, you also need lawyers :-)
>
>> I wanted to ask about this, since it's mentioned constantly, but
>> OpenSource is a reasonably loose term that means different strokes to
>> different folks.
>
>
> The Open Source Definition at Opensource.org is the one I wrote.
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Bruce
> --
> Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually :-)

From diehl.mike.a at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 15:17:03 2020
From: diehl.mike.a at gmail.com (Mike Diehl)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 11:17:03 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb]
	=?utf-8?q?Who_I=E2=80=99m_NOT_Voting_For_=28Short=29?=
In-Reply-To: <351DD49D-DF83-4E60-ABE5-0F8914F1666A@mac.com>
References: <351DD49D-DF83-4E60-ABE5-0F8914F1666A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <16976F65-3803-4B8C-9A6E-5FF6EC1DBE92@gmail.com>

Clint, 

No need to send screenshots, everyone can just use the Wayback Machine here http://web.archive.org/web/20181227011914/http://work-sats.com/

73,
Mike Diehl
W8LID/VE6LID

> On Jul 15, 2020, at 10:10, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?Patrick and Jeff created a Web site In 2018 using my Web site?s name - but added the plural of my work-sat.com - they used ?Sats.?
> 
> The site was solely created to demean myself and Gordon West. The posts were obscene, vile, insulting, and vicious in their attacks. Most of their posts are too objectionable to post on a public forum like this: posts like two rats fornicating and writing that my satellite inquiry phone number of 800-999-SATS could also use the alpha characters, 800-999-RATS.
> 
> If anyone is interested in reading screenshots of their work, I will privately email them to you. 
> 
> Stoddard and Johns will not be receiving my vote. 
> 
> Clint Bradford K6LCS
> 909-999-SATS
> 
> PS They let the GoDaddy domain name expire after a year. I registered it immediately - and it is now redirected to my site.
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From ke4al at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 15 15:29:35 2020
From: ke4al at yahoo.com (Robert Bankston)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 15:29:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOvEGF4x9qbEWpawXMN=CVo7m3oQoPKUXwL2P2gZ_2FfcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
	<CAK2MWOvswX23Z=-hVErSjR8WkNVf3NNmY-YQmCEfxvA8+QEU1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<444557115.1777279.1594770243985@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAK2MWOvEGF4x9qbEWpawXMN=CVo7m3oQoPKUXwL2P2gZ_2FfcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1926115224.2079076.1594826975685@mail.yahoo.com>

Bruce,
??
I see you "borrowed" your retort from Patrick's misleading "directors" report on his personal website.? I would think someone as learned as you would at least provide the proper citation.
??
<AMSAT presidents in their annual reports at AMSATs own meetings have been really grim about AMSAT's finances>
??
You are confusing projected budgetary deficits, with actual financial performance. This is a common mistake for individuals without business and nonprofit backgrounds, and why I devoted my time in time in the May/June 2020 issue of The AMSAT Journal to fully explain this.
??
<I also hear that around the start of April, you reported "Without cash flows, we (AMSAT) can't afford to pay our bills.">
??
Patrick purposefully took this quote out of context, when he secretly recorded the AMSAT Board of Directors meeting.? If Patrick would have shared the entire conversation, your would know that we were discussing the economic uncertainty at the very beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic.?
??
No one knew at that point what effect the coronavirus would have on our economy and still do not fully know today.? So, yes, I was concerned about cash flows and having access to our accounts, just as every for profit and nonprofit business in the World was.? I would have been derelict in my duties as AMSAT Treasurer to not advise our Board of Directors of this threat and recommend a course of action. To say otherwise is disingenuous.
??
I am happy to share that through our preemptive actions and the hard work of our Officers and volunteers, we have weathered the storm.? Our biggest concern was with the cancellation of Hamvention, where a large part of our membership stop by the booth, catch up with everything going on, and pay their annual dues.? Luckily, with the May 1st launch of our new Member Portal, AMSAT achieved a record amount of monthly membership revenues in May.
??
Robert Bankston, KE4AL
Treasurer
Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)




On Tuesday, July 14, 2020, 09:38:13 PM CDT, Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote: 


Robert,

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 4:58 PM Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>??I know you only show up at election time

Snark if you want, but I am working on Amateur Space quite often. My latest was the pocketqube ion thruster project, see?http://perens.com/static/AppliedIon/
where my work successfully raised the necessary funds and got the project on its feet again.?

>??AMSAT is on a solid financial footing and headed in the right direction.?

Well, that is wonderful. But you must understand where my trepidation about AMSAT's finances comes from, since AMSAT presidents in their annual reports at AMSATs own meetings have been really grim about AMSAT's?finances.

I also hear that around the start of April, you reported "Without cash flows, we (AMSAT) can't afford to pay our bills." At which point AMSAT applied for the government salary protection program. That is after the report you just cited, isn't it? We are all suffering from COVID-19 related austerity, and we can expect AMSAT to lose funds that it would have received around conferences, etc., so best wishes with that.

? ? Thanks

? ? Bruce

From jeffrey.davis at mac.com  Wed Jul 15 15:39:31 2020
From: jeffrey.davis at mac.com (Jeff Davis)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 11:39:31 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
In-Reply-To: <1926115224.2079076.1594826975685@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
	<CAK2MWOvswX23Z=-hVErSjR8WkNVf3NNmY-YQmCEfxvA8+QEU1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<444557115.1777279.1594770243985@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAK2MWOvEGF4x9qbEWpawXMN=CVo7m3oQoPKUXwL2P2gZ_2FfcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1926115224.2079076.1594826975685@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <50AC0D87-2354-41BD-AAF6-8E4396CCC570@mac.com>

Excellent! 

> On Jul 15, 2020, at 11:29 AM, Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> Luckily, with the May 1st launch of our new Member Portal, AMSAT achieved a record amount of monthly membership revenues in May.
>   
> Robert Bankston, KE4AL
> Treasurer
> Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)


From almetco at comcast.net  Wed Jul 15 16:15:05 2020
From: almetco at comcast.net (Greg)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 12:15:05 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb]
 =?utf-8?q?Who_I=E2=80=99m_NOT_Voting_For_=28Short=29?=
In-Reply-To: <16976F65-3803-4B8C-9A6E-5FF6EC1DBE92@gmail.com>
References: <351DD49D-DF83-4E60-ABE5-0F8914F1666A@mac.com>
	<16976F65-3803-4B8C-9A6E-5FF6EC1DBE92@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C607803B-B3B5-4A79-B5A0-07229862539D@comcast.net>

LID/LCS

Wow, that is so chidish it borders on issues with emotional IQ ?glad you brought that to my attention because it will influence my vote..

N3MVF



On Jul 15, 2020, at 11:17 AM, Mike Diehl via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

Clint, 

No need to send screenshots, everyone can just use the Wayback Machine here http://web.archive.org/web/20181227011914/http://work-sats.com/

73,
Mike Diehl
W8LID/VE6LID

> On Jul 15, 2020, at 10:10, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?Patrick and Jeff created a Web site In 2018 using my Web site?s name - but added the plural of my work-sat.com - they used ?Sats.?
> 
> The site was solely created to demean myself and Gordon West. The posts were obscene, vile, insulting, and vicious in their attacks. Most of their posts are too objectionable to post on a public forum like this: posts like two rats fornicating and writing that my satellite inquiry phone number of 800-999-SATS could also use the alpha characters, 800-999-RATS.
> 
> If anyone is interested in reading screenshots of their work, I will privately email them to you. 
> 
> Stoddard and Johns will not be receiving my vote. 
> 
> Clint Bradford K6LCS
> 909-999-SATS
> 
> PS They let the GoDaddy domain name expire after a year. I registered it immediately - and it is now redirected to my site.
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 16:15:00 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 09:15:00 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT IP
In-Reply-To: <47B62B71-B480-4ED1-A9DD-676F797F3D55@aol.com>
References: <CACvjz2UqDOHTnY+39s0x4+bRwouAFPgAMA5SU8tp60pCB40aJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<47B62B71-B480-4ED1-A9DD-676F797F3D55@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2X3JB0aKPOJMMoyAgk6=pp8iey_pK5ov7yKQijeGtqvzQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'm so glad you asked about this.

I will outline the steps that several teams of people have taken over time
to identify and explain risk, get buy-in, and proactively do things to get
people trained up and manage multiple issues.

Phil Karn, Bruce Perens, Robert McGwier, and many others, have brought up
IP and ITAR/EAR risk management strategies, primarily Open Source, to the
board, at Symposium, and in public, for over a decade. They have spoken at
conferences, held workshops, written emails, and pointed out that specific
failures would have been prevented with something more than "Um, I guess
hide it because ITAR".

I put together a team to propose a specific IT product to comply with a
specific set of ITAR/EAR implementation guidelines. We wrote a presentation
and submitted it to the board in late 2017.

You can read it here:
https://github.com/phase4ground/documents/blob/master/Papers_Articles_Presentations/Slide_Presentations/20171208_GitHubEnterpriseProposal.pdf

Six highly qualified people signed the proposal, there was enthusiasm from
rank and file engineers, and surely we would get to call in to a board
meeting, answer questions, or record a video presentation.

Well, months went by. I asked about it. Joe Spier said there had already
been a vote. Total rejection, just too expensive, unnecessary.

The cost of GitHub Enterprise for AMSAT comes in a bit less than the cost
of the Wild Apricot subscription for our online member portal. I don't
think it's too expensive to dramatically reduce liability and personal risk
to volunteers, but the board apparently unanimously disagreed.

Later on, though, this vote didn't appear in the minutes. I started to
doubt it ever really happened.

When I asked about whether the vote really happened, I was taunted for
"never even having bothered to run for the board".

Ok, so I guess I have to run for the board to get quality policy work
considered. I did, I won, and the new contract and retainer for FD
Associates to review an actual honest to God ITAR/EAR *policy* has been
*sitting on Clayton's desk for weeks*. Clayton designated me as the person
to get this done and defended me against angry howls of protest from some
long-timers on the board.

Good news? I have almost all of this work done. I want FD Associates to
review it and advise. Clayton, send the contract and retainer back to FD
Associates.

If we don't use our qualified volunteers, unless they're on the board, that
makes for very very slow progress on, well, anything.

Bill Reed submitted his name for consideration as AMSAT President in 2019
with one plank in his platform. "Produce a written ITAR/EAR policy for
AMSAT within three months. If I fail, I resign." This policy would include
the public domain carve-out from ITAR 120.11.

I nominated Bill Reed when Joe Spier resigned. I circulated his resume,
with involvement from early missions up to GOLF, and explained why I
thought he'd be successful and bridge some divides.

He lost 3-4, to Clayton Coleman, who was a Secretary and Director for the
preceding term.

Jan King came to the 2019 Symposium. He spoke to the board, was a dinner
speaker, and had a speaking slot. He stood up in front of the entire
organization and said he regretted not going open source. It steered AMSAT
wrong. He said it was a mistake, and we shouldn't be making it again going
forward. I nearly fell out of my seat. He spoke more pointedly to the
board, echoing almost word for word things that many of us have been saying
for years.

Jan King departed the ASCENT team when Jerry Buxton affirmed that it was
going to be proprietary ITAR. Repeated attempts to get him to come back
didn't work. Bill Tynan brought it up over and over.

It's unfair to speak for him, but I think maybe you can add Jan King to the
list of people that have tried very hard to change the direction of the
organization and are now doing other things with their time rather than
work under FUD.

No action was taken after hearing from Jan King at Symposium.

I was invited to lead the open source ground station team for AMSAT in
2015. We brought in $300,000 of in-kind and cash donations, quickly built
up 40 engineers, and started producing open source work for "five and
dime". I presented the work, promoted the team, they did amazing, lots of
articles were written, several significant donations of IP came in, and we
started getting traction. This was very openly Open Source. In early 2018,
Joe Spier called me to insist that "working in 10GHz as open source is
illegal". I said no, it wasn't, and we would not be going to go closed
source, because that meant complying with commercial or proprietary ITAR
rules, and 25% of our team would vanish and the costs to comply would take
our entire technical budget.

Joe Spier didn't say much to this, but he did shut down this project
without communication or warning while I was on vacation in March 2018. He
claimed to others that he deleted the entire email archive, and I was told
AMSAT would keep all the donations.

Fortunately none of the work was lost and continues today. It did take a
team to set up an entirely new corporate structure and file for a 501c3 and
get solid policies written to properly protect the volunteers that AMSAT
dumped on the floor. I could have used the time and energy for AMSAT. I was
all in. And still am, despite being treated like garbage by people that
don't know ITAR from IZOD.

I think it's clear that the work is appreciated and desired in the
community. It's offered back to AMSAT without strings attached or any hard
feelings.

One big piece of work done for AMSAT's benefit is the filing of a Commodity
Jurisdiction request to the State Department to free open source microwave
band digital payload work from ITAR. This was filed February 2020. It's
working its way through the system now.

AMSAT has never done this. They really should have, years ago.

AMSAT was asked, repeatedly, to join this effort. By paper letter, by
appeal at Symposium, by open letter on the web, and by personal appeals to
whoever would listen. AMSAT completely ignored this effort. However, they
are the single greatest beneficiary of any result that comes from it.
Negative means an appeal, but that AMSAT has to actually implement ITAR
policies. Hence the work with FD Associates.

Positive means huge relief. Somewhere in between, plenty good there too.

Yes, the incumbents, running yet again for another term, ignored this
effort completely. But, the team I recruited still got it done.

As hard as I and many others have worked to bring the completely
world-changing practice of open source engineering to AMSAT, which would
quite bluntly save the day, my question to you is this.

Is the current leadership team really valuable to AMSAT?

How many more years would you like all of us to be ignored, excluded, and
attacked when we "ask nicely"?

-Michelle W5NYV


On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 22:06 Scott McDonald <ka9p at aol.com> wrote:

> Michelle, I understand your points.
>
> But the solution in real life is rarely to toss out the existing team.
> You might get a manager fired, but the team is too valuable.
>
> If you see something, say something.  So far so good.  But then identify
> and explain the risk, get buy-in and proactively do something to get
> everyone trained to respect and manage the issue.
>
> In my experience re-elected board members tend to find a way to make good
> things happen, even against the odds.
>
> Scott Ka9p
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jul 14, 2020, at 11:15 PM, Michelle Thompson <
> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?
> Since we are talking about IP, let me turn your attention to some actual
> problems with intellectual property management at AMSAT.
>
> For example, an entire custom set of HDL cores, donated to AMSAT by
> Comtech/AHA, was lost. The NDA was neglected and literally lost until I
> brought it up. I insisted Joe Spier go find it for the 2019 annual meeting.
>
> Worse, the license for the community accessible version with GNU Radio
> simply not managed. That community totally lost out on something that was
> supposed to come to them through this work.
>
> This entire block of IP was simply squandered. Did someone end up with it
> that should not have? Because it helps digital modes, was it just
> gobblygook to engineering leadership?
>
> If we can't manage this type of data, then how do you think we are doing
> managing more important things with harsher repercussions?
>
> Unlike files that describe a toy plastic model, this was advanced error
> correcting and control code, designed for space applications, that actually
> put us well ahead of many chip manufacturers at the time.
>
> If you want this sort of waste to change, then please vote for Howie
> DeFelice, Jeff Johns, and Robert McGwier.
>
> Why? Because the incumbents blindly support the officers that lost this
> IP, and will simply re-appoint all of those officers if they win.
>
> AMSAT got this gift, primarily because of Robert McGwier. One of his
> students spent the summer doing the work with AHA mentoring him.
>
> Howie DeFelice works in the commercial satellite world and would simply
> never let valuable IP walk out the door or fall on the floor.
>
> Jeff Johns is a trained consultant in quality and accountability systems.
> People like him annoy the tar out of me at work because I can't get away
> with flushing IP down a toilet or giving it to my friends in violation of
> an NDA.
>
> Yes, I'm headstrong. But I'm not stupid. Problems like this are what we
> should be caring about and voting on, instead of plastic toys.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 8:51 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 8:18 PM Scott McDonald via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Bruce-
>>> As a member I have to take exception to most of your note.
>>> 1) To oversimplify, non-standard original shapes much like the satellite
>>> model often are considered copyrightable, and the copyright vests in the
>>> creator when the work is created. Notice and registration have much to do
>>> with the right to sue and collect damages, among other things, but have
>>> nothing to do with the copyright vesting in the creator.
>>>
>>
>> Actually, I would think that the shapes are more the topic of design
>> patent. The case law around this applies to 2D fonts: the font file can be
>> copyrighted, but if one renders the font and traces the outline, that is
>> _not_ protected by copyright. The law has not entirely followed this for 3D
>> shapes, but in part that is because we don't have enough good cases about
>> them yet.
>>
>> And then we have the matter of the *function* of the particular shape.
>> The overall cubesat shape is constrained by a standard and thus functional
>> rather than expressive and not copyright protectible. Something like a
>> parabolic antenna would be constrained by phyiscal law and thus again
>> functional rather than expressive and not copyright protectible.
>>
>> Of course I'd love to write an expert report on this topic or help an
>> attorney argue all of this in court.
>>
>>
>>> 2) In my experience, it is a rare organization that would be happy with
>>> a director having an informal discussion with "enough" other directors and
>>> then releasing its intellectual property.
>>
>>
>> Is this about Michelle and the model? I am not going to argue that she
>> isn't headstrong, etc. It may be the kind of headstrong we need. There is
>> about 50 years of inertia to overcome.
>>
>>
>>> 3) Your opinion that AMSAT shouldn't pursue patents dumbfounds me.
>>
>>
>> Wow! No, I am going to stand by that one. First, AMSAT as a public
>> benefit non-profit should not be standing in the way of other people's
>> research and work. Second, if it does so, it will be subject to companies
>> bringing their patent portfolios to bear against AMSAT, which would
>> entirely hobble AMSAT's ability to build and launch satellites. Every
>> software program and I am sure everything as complex as a cubesat practices
>> a patent claim that is currently in force if never litigated. What we have
>> right now is a sort of tacit detante, which is the best we can do within
>> current law. This is a topic I have explored thoroughly for Open Source
>> projects. Start to issue patents to AMSAT, and we will be on the radar of
>> very many companies with larger portfolios than ours.
>>
>> The only workable strategy would be a purely defensive portfolio, and I
>> can't see that it's worth the cost.
>>
>> If AMSAT creates something that is commercially significant in the
>>> satellite field, protectable by any form of IP, that invention should not
>>> be disclosed to others until an informed decision is made as to its
>>> potential value.  If there is a good business case for protecting the
>>> asset, that should be done.  I expect there are enough members that could
>>> do this work pro bono, if the work could actually provide AMSAT with
>>> licensing income or leverage for collaboration opportunities.
>>>
>>
>> The problem with all of this is that AMSAT has to bring lawsuits to
>> enforce its patents, and threaten to do so before anyone else would even
>> consider paying for a patent. A patent is simply a license to sue.
>> Meanwhile, we have to be 1000 times more careful to search patents about
>> everything in our satellites. No thank you.
>>
>> I expect many AMSAT volunteers already know this from their work
>>> elsewhere, but figured it was worth mentioning, as its seems some folks may
>>> not.
>>
>>
>> I am sure that many people know something of the patent policy of their
>> companies. Most probably don't understand it fully. But that doesn't apply
>> to a public benefit non-profit, for sensible strategic reasons. This is one
>> of those areas where a corporate attorney could give us the entirely wrong
>> advice.
>>
>>     Thanks
>>
>>     Bruce
>>
>

From bruce at perens.com  Wed Jul 15 17:17:01 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 10:17:01 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Open Source Policy
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c84Fai5VG694jL+pvhP9jiFz0vmMojsSxfL9B3qS2GULg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
	<CAK2MWOvswX23Z=-hVErSjR8WkNVf3NNmY-YQmCEfxvA8+QEU1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOviRUcG6O0H2ONQwOZ7gEyyiB4SN_4Q4ZDhstX9zjBK=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-Rkyxr0HBdNYh0vSuCHsw_snpygu7gTHOLWvX=cZNvZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtoUsTb8uQTYDA6JazbfoFL+9LDhN5Z9OKrhwmkTEpf7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c84Fai5VG694jL+pvhP9jiFz0vmMojsSxfL9B3qS2GULg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOuWMC7ZoRyAhfQe0_+zxu50pWYABR4_yL8VWT==Eg+_+Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 7:21 AM Joseph Armbruster <
josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:

> You did not really answer the first question: "How does AMSAT benefit
> by pursuing an open source policy?"


Oh, come on, Joseph. Getting out from under ITAR would be a really big deal
for AMSAT, and that is enough of an answer. I can add that a public benefit
non-profit should actually *be* of public benefit, and granting its work to
the public is how it does that. And there is a vast Open Source
collaboration on satellites and radio that AMSAT is mostly not part of.
This has resulted in GNU Radio (Michelle serves on their board) and
complete satellite designs. As I mentioned in another post, there are also
Open Source thruster designs which I support, and having the ability to
change orbit, maintain your orbit, avoid a collision, and deorbit using
them is a big deal.

I had been through a similar discussion with a private company that I
> worked for about a 3D visualization


Yes, but that was a private company. There is way too much private company
thinking around here! We aren't a private company and should not act like
one.


> One comment on what you said about GPL "you use the GPL where you want
> companies to participate more, rather than just take your stuff and
> modify it in private, never returning anything."  This is a common
> misunderstanding / mis-representation of what the GPL does.


Ahem. You really do not have to school me about the GPL, and this is sort
of insulting in that way. Yes, I know that there are ways in which
sometimes people don't have to give back. There are also disadvantages to
them if they work that way, one being that they must re-port their version
to every new one released by the public project, if they want the
improvements made by the public project, which are often desirable and
sometimes have security implications.

The fact is that there has been a many-times multiplier of my one month of
evenings creating Busybox and the subsequent work by embedded systems
companies and public projects. I wrote the first 35 commands into Busybox.
It was at 135 the last time I looked, and is probably a lot more now. This
is entirely because of GPL. It also spawned several other projects
including an embedded libc and a program that builds your whole embedded
system for you.



> On the whole protesting of ITAR/EAR and Defense Distributed, when you say
> the Federal Government lost, from a practical standpoint, that's not really
> true.


And not entirely relevant to AMSAT, since we are not making firearms and
don't have *states* chomping at the bit to sue us. We have an entirely
Federal issue. I know legal hardship very well, having just won a
GPL-related suit. But the fact is that the path I laid out explicitly
follows the law and has little chance of legal hardship.


> Because if the wrong politically-motivated person in the Department of
> Whatever (or friend of a girlfriend of a mistress of whomever) gets an
> itch, they can make your life a living hell.


Unfortunately this is true whatever strategy AMSAT takes, and the secretive
nature we currently have is NOT protective! The ITAR strategy I laid out
would be more protective, since it uses a very clear carve-out to take our
work outside of the scope of ITAR.

    Thanks

    Bruce

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 17:52:34 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 13:52:34 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Open Source Policy
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOuWMC7ZoRyAhfQe0_+zxu50pWYABR4_yL8VWT==Eg+_+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
	<CAK2MWOvswX23Z=-hVErSjR8WkNVf3NNmY-YQmCEfxvA8+QEU1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOviRUcG6O0H2ONQwOZ7gEyyiB4SN_4Q4ZDhstX9zjBK=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-Rkyxr0HBdNYh0vSuCHsw_snpygu7gTHOLWvX=cZNvZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtoUsTb8uQTYDA6JazbfoFL+9LDhN5Z9OKrhwmkTEpf7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c84Fai5VG694jL+pvhP9jiFz0vmMojsSxfL9B3qS2GULg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOuWMC7ZoRyAhfQe0_+zxu50pWYABR4_yL8VWT==Eg+_+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c-1zQBFv-sL6QFPBZCDrkuAi3RsDAFwT7x+jXp=2Rs2bA@mail.gmail.com>

Bruce,

I've heard the carve-out mentioned in the past but i'm not entirely
certain about the details. Can you explain how it works and provide
any input you (or others) may have received from the DDTC or DOS to
substantiate this?  From what i've heard in the past and just read
from your writings, it goes something like this:

IF  information is "published in a journal" (placed in the public domain?)
THEN  the information is no longer subject to ITAR

You're not the only person I have heard mention this but it sounds
like you may have information that could at least help me and others
understand exactly how it works, because I honestly have no clue.
I've heard others within AMSAT mention it in the past but there's
always been reasonable shadows of doubt over whether or not it's valid
or not.

And just for clarification, I did not intend to "school" you on GPL
nor insult you in any way with my statements about it.  I know nothing
about your professional or technical career, experience with software
licensing / etc... but will try to look up your resume now.  All
schooling aside, what I said is in fact the way that it is.  There is
no give-back requirement in GPL.  The terms only apply to those to
whom the work is conveyed.  There is no guarantee that once a
GPL-sourced code base is placed into the public sphere, that anyone
who takes it and edits it will return their changes to the source.

That's not to say that people who do contribute to OSS, aren't doing a
good thing, obviously that's the entire spirit of it.

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 1:17 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 7:21 AM Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> You did not really answer the first question: "How does AMSAT benefit
>> by pursuing an open source policy?"
>
>
> Oh, come on, Joseph. Getting out from under ITAR would be a really big deal for AMSAT, and that is enough of an answer. I can add that a public benefit non-profit should actually be of public benefit, and granting its work to the public is how it does that. And there is a vast Open Source collaboration on satellites and radio that AMSAT is mostly not part of. This has resulted in GNU Radio (Michelle serves on their board) and complete satellite designs. As I mentioned in another post, there are also Open Source thruster designs which I support, and having the ability to change orbit, maintain your orbit, avoid a collision, and deorbit using them is a big deal.
>
>> I had been through a similar discussion with a private company that I
>> worked for about a 3D visualization
>
>
> Yes, but that was a private company. There is way too much private company thinking around here! We aren't a private company and should not act like one.
>
>>
>> One comment on what you said about GPL "you use the GPL where you want
>> companies to participate more, rather than just take your stuff and
>> modify it in private, never returning anything."  This is a common
>> misunderstanding / mis-representation of what the GPL does.
>
>
> Ahem. You really do not have to school me about the GPL, and this is sort of insulting in that way. Yes, I know that there are ways in which sometimes people don't have to give back. There are also disadvantages to them if they work that way, one being that they must re-port their version to every new one released by the public project, if they want the improvements made by the public project, which are often desirable and sometimes have security implications.
>
> The fact is that there has been a many-times multiplier of my one month of evenings creating Busybox and the subsequent work by embedded systems companies and public projects. I wrote the first 35 commands into Busybox. It was at 135 the last time I looked, and is probably a lot more now. This is entirely because of GPL. It also spawned several other projects including an embedded libc and a program that builds your whole embedded system for you.
>
>
>>
>> On the whole protesting of ITAR/EAR and Defense Distributed, when you say the Federal Government lost, from a practical standpoint, that's not really true.
>
>
> And not entirely relevant to AMSAT, since we are not making firearms and don't have states chomping at the bit to sue us. We have an entirely Federal issue. I know legal hardship very well, having just won a GPL-related suit. But the fact is that the path I laid out explicitly follows the law and has little chance of legal hardship.
>
>>
>> Because if the wrong politically-motivated person in the Department of Whatever (or friend of a girlfriend of a mistress of whomever) gets an itch, they can make your life a living hell.
>
>
> Unfortunately this is true whatever strategy AMSAT takes, and the secretive nature we currently have is NOT protective! The ITAR strategy I laid out would be more protective, since it uses a very clear carve-out to take our work outside of the scope of ITAR.
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Bruce
>
>

From bruce at perens.com  Wed Jul 15 18:06:55 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 11:06:55 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Open Source Policy
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c-1zQBFv-sL6QFPBZCDrkuAi3RsDAFwT7x+jXp=2Rs2bA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
	<CAK2MWOvswX23Z=-hVErSjR8WkNVf3NNmY-YQmCEfxvA8+QEU1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOviRUcG6O0H2ONQwOZ7gEyyiB4SN_4Q4ZDhstX9zjBK=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-Rkyxr0HBdNYh0vSuCHsw_snpygu7gTHOLWvX=cZNvZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtoUsTb8uQTYDA6JazbfoFL+9LDhN5Z9OKrhwmkTEpf7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c84Fai5VG694jL+pvhP9jiFz0vmMojsSxfL9B3qS2GULg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOuWMC7ZoRyAhfQe0_+zxu50pWYABR4_yL8VWT==Eg+_+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-1zQBFv-sL6QFPBZCDrkuAi3RsDAFwT7x+jXp=2Rs2bA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOuHQhS9n9L8V4cTZTtZ_N5G27my_KdNX6qS34BEvOd0aQ@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
> I've heard the carve-out mentioned in the past but i'm not entirely
> certain about the details.


Maybe I'm weird, but I found ITAR 120 pretty easy to read. It bothers me
that more people do not read law, since it is a framework they must live
within. Of course there are complications like case law that make this a
never-ending project.

I am going entirely by the published law in ITAR 121. DoD is often loath to
issue determinations, and we continue to work on that, but the law is clear
enough. This is all work I wrote for ORI and is on their web site:

ITAR is the International Trafficking in Arms Regulations. The sections of
ITAR that concern us are 120
<https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/documents/official_itar/ITAR_Part_120.pdf>
 and 121
<https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/documents/official_itar/ITAR_Part_121.pdf>.
Various
technologies are declared ?munitions? which can not be exported to nations
on an ?embargoed list?, for example North Korea.

All items which are subject to our international collaborations carried out
over the Internet are technical data under ITAR. This includes software as
well as other information. Our ITAR strategy does not apply to physical
objects such as space satellites, but to their designs and the software
which is part of them, which are techical data under ITAR. We can expect to
deal with ITAR and EAR when physical objects are transferred to individuals
other than U.S. nationals or across national borders.

We must not not provide defense services. Specifically, we do not answer
questions or perform any requested services for individuals who
are identified as asking for information to use for a military purpose for
any nation, including the United States ? since we must comply with the
export regulations of many nations other than the U.S.

ITAR includes a carve-out for ?Public Domain? which we make use of. First,
let?s look at the ITAR text and how it defines what it restricts:

? 120.2 Designation of defense articles and defense services.

The Arms Export Control Act (22 U.S.C. 2778(a) and 2794(7)) provides that
the President shall designate the articles and services deemed to be defense
articles and defense services for purposes of this subchapter. The items so
designated constitute the United States Munitions List and are specified in
part 121 of this subchapter.

?

? 120.6 Defense article. Defense article means any item or technical
data designated
in ?121.1 of this subchapter. The policy described in ?120.3 is applicable
to designations of additional items. This term includes technical data
recorded or stored in any physical form, models, mockups or other items
that reveal technical data directly relating to items designated in ?121.1
of this subchapter.

?

120.10(a) Technical data means, for purposes of this subchapter:

?

120.10(a)(5) This definition does not include information concerning
general scientific, mathematical or engineering principles commonly taught
in schools, colleges and universities *or *information in the public domain
as defined in ?120.11.

*?*

? 120.11 Public domain.

(a) Public domain means information which is published and which is
generally accessible or available to the public:

(1) Through sales at newsstands and bookstores;

(2) Through subscriptions which are available without restriction to any
individual who desires to obtain or purchase the published information;

(3) Through second class mailing privileges granted by the U.S. Government;

(4) At libraries open to the public or from which the public can obtain
documents;

5) Through patents available at any patent office;

(6) Through unlimited distribution at a conference, meeting, seminar,
trade show or exhibition, generally accessible to the public, in the United
States;

(7) Through public release (i.e., unlimited distribution) in any form
(e.g., not necessarily in published form) after approval by the cognizant
U.S. government department or agency (see also ?125.4(b)(13) of this
subchapter);

(8) Through fundamental research in science and engineering at accredited
institutions of higher learning in the U.S. where the resulting information
is ordinarily published and shared broadly in the scientific community.
Fundamental research is defined to mean basic and applied research in
science and engineering where the resulting information is ordinarily
published and shared broadly within the scientific community, as
distinguished from research the results of which are restricted for
proprietary reasons or specific U.S. Government access and dissemination
controls.

University research will not be considered fundamental research if:

(i) The University or its researchers accept other restrictions on
publication of scientific and technical information resulting from the
project or activity, or

(ii) The research is funded by the U.S. Government and specific access and
dissemination controls protecting information resulting from the research
are applicable.

?

So, according to ITAR, public knowledge is not subject to regulation under
ITAR. The meaning of the words ?Public Domain?, as used in ITAR, is that
knowledge is known to the public, rather than that copyrights have been
abandoned and that material has been dedicated to the public domain in a
copyright sense.

ORI?s general method of making sure that all research and development is
public knowledge is to keep it visible to the public via our web site, both
during and after development. Updates are often on a daily basis, and
developers are instructed not to allow any development to remain invisible
to the public for long. Similarly, the teams collaborate using online
discussion which is archived and available for anyone to read as it happens.

However, ITAR 120.11 doesn?t explicitly include publication on a web site
as a means of assuring knowledge is in the public domain (EAR does). ITAR
specifies a list of activities which make knowledge public, many of which
we can perform.

Let?s look at the individual means of placing technical information in the
public domain as spelled out in ITAR 120.11. Consider that we make a physical
distribution, say a Blu-Ray disc or USB stick, of all of our software and
other content. ITAR then allows us to make this public domain:

(1) Through sales at newsstands and bookstores;

If we sell (or give away) our physical distribution through a newsstand or
a bookstore, we are in compliance with ITAR 120.11(a)(1). The material in
the distribution is considered to be in the public domain under ITAR
120.11, and is not subject to regulation under ITAR. Amazon.com is a
bookstore, perhaps the world?s most popular. So, we could make our physical
distribution available for sale by Amazon.

(2) Through subscriptions which are available without restriction to any
individual who desires to obtain or purchase the published information;

I would argue that subscriptions to access our web site satisfy this term.
However, we can also take the physical distribution and send it to
subscribers who have paid a fee for that service.

(3) Through second class mailing privileges granted by the U.S. Government;

Why won?t first-class mail work? Because second-class mail was used for
periodical publications and the United States Postal Service has a
qualification process to allow periodicals to make use of it.

The Postal Service is an ?establishment of the executive branch of
the Government of the United States?, under 39 U.S.C. ? 201, as it is
controlled by Presidential appointees and the Postmaster General (a federal
appointee).

Today the name ?second-class mail? has changed to ?periodical mail?.
Periodical mail requires printed material, and a schedule at least
quarterly, an application fee and some forms (some of which must be filed
periodically). It does allow incidental material to be in another medium
such as a Blu-Ray disc or USB stick. So, we could send out a quarterly
journal with printed papers, including our physical distribution as above.

(4) At libraries open to the public or from which the public can obtain
documents;

We could fulfill this requirement by submitting our physical distribution
to the *Library of Congress, *and arranging for it to be distributed by
other libraries.

But arguably, if a library offers access to the web, and can thus access
our web site, that would fulfill this requirement.

?

(6) Through unlimited distribution at a conference, meeting, seminar,
trade show or exhibition, generally accessible to the public, in the United
States;

This applies to our technical presentations. Perhaps we could also arrange
to distribute our physical distribution to all of the attendees of such a
conference.

And this section could also apply to *online *meetings, seminars, and
exhibitions, as long as they are available in the United States.

?

So, this gives us five methods through which we can easily place our work
formally in the Public Domain, as defined by ITAR, as well as the continual
publication of our technical data on our web site. If we do these things
periodically, publish new material on our web site as close to instantly as
possible, follow a policy not to perform defense services or distribute
physical objects to certain people or nations, we can operate an Open
Source collaboration internationally for information that would otherwise
be restricted under ITAR.
EAR Strategy

The text of the Export Administration Regulations is here
<https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/regulations/export-administration-regulations-ear>.
We are concerned with keeping our work out of EAR definition ?subject to
the EAR?, which covers all things which are regulated under EAR. Here are
the regulations concerning ?subject to the EAR? and published material.
They contain a similar carve-out to ITAR regarding published material.
? 734.2 SUBJECT TO THE EAR
(a) Subject to the EAR ? Definition
(1) ?Subject to the EAR? is a term used in the EAR to describe those items
and activities over which BIS exercises regulatory jurisdiction under the
EAR. Conversely, items and activities that are not subject to the EAR are
outside the regulatory jurisdiction of the EAR and are not affected by
these regulations. The items and activities subject to the EAR are
described in ?734.2 through ?734.5 of this part. You should review the
Commerce Control List (CCL) and any applicable parts of the EAR to
determine whether an item or activity is subject to the EAR. However, if
you need help in determining whether an item or activity is subject to the
EAR, see ?734.6 of this part. Publicly available technology and software
not subject to the EAR are described in ?734.7 through ?734.11 and
Supplement No. 1 to this part.
?
? 734.7 PUBLISHED
(a) Except as set forth in paragraph (b) of this section, unclassified
?technology? or ?software? is ?published,? and is thus not ?technology? or
?software? subject to the EAR, when it has been made available to the
public without restrictions upon its further dissemination such as through
any of the following:
(1) Subscriptions available without restriction to any individual who
desires to obtain or purchase the published information;
(2) Libraries or other public collections that are open and available to
the public, and from which the public can obtain tangible or intangible
documents;
(3) Unlimited distribution at a conference, meeting, seminar, trade show,
or exhibition, generally accessible to the interested public;
(4) Public dissemination (i.e., unlimited distribution) in any form (e.g.,
not necessarily in published form), including posting on the Internet on
sites available to the public; or
(5) Submission of a written composition, manuscript, presentation,
computer-readable dataset, formula, imagery, algorithms, or some other
representation of knowledge with the intention that such information will
be made
publicly available if accepted for publication or presentation:
(i) To domestic or foreign co-authors, editors, or reviewers of journals,
magazines, newspapers or trade publications;
(ii) To researchers conducting fundamental research; or
(iii) To organizers of open conferences or other open gatherings.
(b) Published encryption software classified under ECCN 5D002 remains
subject to the EAR unless it is publicly available encryption object code
software classified under ECCN 5D002 and the corresponding source code
meets the criteria specified in ? 742.15(b) of the EAR.
?
742.15(b) Publicly available encryption source code
(1) Scope and eligibility.
Subject to the notification requirements of paragraph (b)(2) of
this section, publicly available (see ? 734.3(b)(3) of the EAR) encryption
source code classified under ECCN 5D002 is not subject to the EAR.
Such source code is publicly available even if it is subject to an express
agreement for the payment of a licensing fee or royalty for commercial
production or sale of any product developed using the source code.
(2) Notification requirement. You must notify BIS and the ENC Encryption
RequestCoordinator via e-mail of the Internet location
(e.g., URL or Internet address) of the publicly available encryption source
code classified under ECCN 5D002 or provide each of them a copy of the
publicly available encryption source code. If you update or modify the
source code, you must also provide additional copies to each of them each
time the cryptographic functionality of the source code is updated or
modified. In addition, if you posted the source code on the Internet, you
must notify BIS and the ENC Encryption Request Coordinator each time the
Internet location is changed, but you are not required to notify them of
updates or modifications made to the encryption source code at the
previously notified location. In all instances, submit the notification or
copy to crypt at bis.doc.gov and to enc at nsa.gov.
?
Since EAR allows publication on a web site under 734.7(a)(4), we can easily
make sure that all of our work but cryptographic software is not subject to
the EAR. Development of cryptography is not specifically a goal of ORI, and
is being carried out well by other Open Source projects, for example
OpenSSL and GNU TLS. However, it is expected that such software will be
included in our projects. The main reason is that all popular web browsers
are being programmed to deprecate or reject unencrypted web sites for ample
security reasons. And of course our software can be expected to make use of
authorization, authentication, and communication facilities for which
encryption is useful for critical.

In order to make sure that our encryption software qualifies as not subject
to the EAR, we will make the email notifications required under
742.15(b)(2). - This may be obsolete - I think the government announced
that encryption was no longer under the EAR but I haven't looked carefully,
and given that the current administration doesn't like end-to-end
encryption in social networks, laws may change.

From brennanprice at verizon.net  Wed Jul 15 18:19:41 2020
From: brennanprice at verizon.net (Brennan Price)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 18:19:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Election Packages mailed July 14
References: <1080983828.1888423.1594837181502.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1080983828.1888423.1594837181502@mail.yahoo.com>

The ballots, candidate statements, and return envelopes for the 2020 AMSAT Board of Directors Election were prepared by Paladin Commercial Printing of Newington, Connecticut. Paladin mailed the packages from Hartford, Connecticut, on Tuesday, July 14, to members of record on July 1.?

Non-US addresses were sent first class (the only option for overseas). US addresses were sent presorted standard, which is routine for mail that requires a two-way response time measured in weeks, as this does.?

Allowing for postal delivery standards and guard time, the Secretary will not consider a ballot as lost in post any earlier than August 12?(four weeks after the mailing). This timing permits a replacement ballot to be mailed first class in both directions, even internationally, with time to spare under prevailing postal delivery standards.

Paladin has shipped materials for 100 blank election packages to me. I will use these materials to assemble and mail replacement or substitute packages as necessary. These requests and packages will be tracked and accounted against the voter list and returned ballots to guard against duplicates, and will be identifiable against the package mailed by Paladin for further verification and accounting by the tellers. Members desiring a replacement ballot package should contact me?no earlier than August 12.

The package is clearly labeled as election-related and contains:

1) An instruction and ballot sheet, with the ballot perforated,
2) A sheet of candidate statements, and
3) A No 9 return envelope, which bears the address to which ballots should be returned and the member's name and address for verification against the voter list and any replacement ballot requests.

Secrecy at the time of counting will be maintained by separating the ballot from the envelope without inspection, placing the ballot in a receptacle, and scrutinizing the ballots after all have been separated from the envelopes.

Ballots should be returned in the return envelopes provided to arrive at the designated Post Office Box in Vienna, Virginia, by 5 p.m. Thursday, September 15, 2020. Separation of the ballots from the envelopes and counting will occur as soon thereafter as practicable, and no later than September 30.

73,
Brennan Price, N4QX
Secretary
Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation

From brennanprice at verizon.net  Wed Jul 15 18:46:49 2020
From: brennanprice at verizon.net (Brennan Price)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 18:46:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Publications and mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOvKNEsaGimo3-ko3Y4tj_k494tqw5opMrM+HmDQR4jY=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <851995224.1060774.1594687473630.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<851995224.1060774.1594687473630@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAK2MWOvKNEsaGimo3-ko3Y4tj_k494tqw5opMrM+HmDQR4jY=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <857370158.1894141.1594838809413@mail.yahoo.com>

Bruce,

There is no bylaw guidance on point here, so much of this falls to the interaction between and practices of the candidates of the day and the Secretary of the day.

In this particular case, I finished verification of nominations on June 20 and asked for candidate statements by June 29. All candidates substantially complied with the timing I requested.

>From that point, there are two relevant events that occur on different schedules: access to corporation mailing lists for the candidates, and the layout of the candidate statements to accompany the ballot packages.

The corporation mailing list was offered to the candidates on July 3 (with individual candidates accepting either immediately or soon after), after checking to ensure that the voter list provided to Paladin met Paladin's requirements and matched the list offered to the candidates.?

The candidate statements required typesetting (by me--Paladin simply printed the finished product), which was concluded July 5. Typeset statements were sent to the candidates for proofing, and released for printing by me on July 6.

Whether mailings a candidate may choose to undertake or commission arrive at a member's address before the ballot arrives depends on whatever actions (with the safeguards discussed below) the candidates have taken since July 3. I am not privy to any candidate's plans in this regard and don't wish to be.

On the other hand, it is not possible for the candidate statements to arrive later than the ballot, as they were sent in the same package on July 14.

73 de Brennan N4QX






On Monday, July 13, 2020, 11:23:15 PM EDT, Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote: 





Brennan,

Thank you very much for this discussion, and please bear with me for one more question. How much time are the candidates given to prepare, print, and have mailed their campaign documents between the time that AMSAT informs them that it ratifies their candidacy, and the time that the ballots are mailed?

It seems very likely that some members will have voted before they could possibly receive the mailed campaign information.

Thanks

Bruce

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 7:44 PM Brennan Price via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> I generally don't intend to engage in the ongoing discussion s beyond an announcement on process once the ballots are mailed (which they will be, tomorrow or Wednesday, on or before the date specified in the bylaws), but I do want to address what the Bylaws say about the organization's publications and mailing lists, as I think (perhaps na?vely) that would be helpful.
> Article III Section 3 provides, in relevant part:
> <<Duly nominated and eligible candidates shall be afforded equal opportunity to circulate statements of their qualifications and positions to the Members through the corporation?s publications and shall have use of the corporation?s mailing lists for election-related purposes at no cost to the corporation.>>
> The production and publication schedule of the AMSAT Journal does not render it a suitable vehicle for candidate statements given the bylaws-mandated nomination and election timing. The absence of campaign statements from the Journal is entirely consistent with the Bylaws: no opportunity for any candidate is inherently equal opportunity for all candidates.
> Traditionally, the organization has used the ballot mailing itself the relevant publication, and this is the approach that will be taken this year. The?"equal opportunity" requirement and paper format (not to mention common practice across multiple organization's) necessitates a target word count, balanced to the extent possible against letting candidates have their say. All candidates met or came close to meeting the target I suggested (350 words), with the most long-winded exceeding by 14 words according to the Word 2016 word counter. Upon review, I offered the remaining candidates the chance to expand up to 364 words. None of them took the offer. All six statements will accompany the ballot, and none of them required editorial work beyond the correction of a repeated word and an excess space. I thank the candidates for making that part of the job easy.?
> I have construed the mailing list as the postal mailing list, which has been offered to each candidate (and thus far, five of the six have accepted the list). Data protection regulations require the corporation to take reasonable efforts to safeguard personally identifiable information, and candidates accepting the list have agreed to support those efforts by limiting use of the list for the "election-related purposes" specified in the bylaws.?Two results follow:
> 1) There are no election-related purposes once the election ends. Accordingly, candidates have agreed to discard the list after the election.
> 2) It is common to engage agents for mailing and postage purposes. I will not hyper-officiate any candidate's choice to do so, but candidates have agreed that any agent will have access to the list only for the time necessary to execute the mailing and will be required by the candidate to discard it afterwards.
> This is a reasonable effort to safeguard in light of the bylaws requirement for candidate access to mailing lists, which establishes an expectation (however infrequently it came to fruition in past) that members may receive election-related postal mail.?
> I think that's enough for now.?
> 73,Brennan Price, N4QXSecretary, AMSAT
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 
> 

From bruce at perens.com  Wed Jul 15 18:56:55 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 11:56:55 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Publications and mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <857370158.1894141.1594838809413@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <851995224.1060774.1594687473630.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<851995224.1060774.1594687473630@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAK2MWOvKNEsaGimo3-ko3Y4tj_k494tqw5opMrM+HmDQR4jY=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<857370158.1894141.1594838809413@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOtmo1k=T8K=0X9-_sUb1epPoM1gBZ9HAO9E3KHOGp8c5g@mail.gmail.com>

Brennan,

Thank you very much. The election bylaws do not provide properly for
canvassing. I think the assumption was that the candidates would be able to
do that in AMSAT's periodicals, but the election dates specified in the
bylaws and the periodical lay-out schedule could never have aligned, as you
previously observed.

    Thanks

    Bruce

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 11:46 AM Brennan Price <brennanprice at verizon.net>
wrote:

> Bruce,
>
> There is no bylaw guidance on point here, so much of this falls to the
> interaction between and practices of the candidates of the day and the
> Secretary of the day.
>
> In this particular case, I finished verification of nominations on June 20
> and asked for candidate statements by June 29. All candidates substantially
> complied with the timing I requested.
>
> From that point, there are two relevant events that occur on different
> schedules: access to corporation mailing lists for the candidates, and the
> layout of the candidate statements to accompany the ballot packages.
>
> The corporation mailing list was offered to the candidates on July 3 (with
> individual candidates accepting either immediately or soon after), after
> checking to ensure that the voter list provided to Paladin met Paladin's
> requirements and matched the list offered to the candidates.
>
> The candidate statements required typesetting (by me--Paladin simply
> printed the finished product), which was concluded July 5. Typeset
> statements were sent to the candidates for proofing, and released for
> printing by me on July 6.
>
> Whether mailings a candidate may choose to undertake or commission arrive
> at a member's address before the ballot arrives depends on whatever actions
> (with the safeguards discussed below) the candidates have taken since July
> 3. I am not privy to any candidate's plans in this regard and don't wish to
> be.
>
> On the other hand, it is not possible for the candidate statements to
> arrive later than the ballot, as they were sent in the same package on July
> 14.
>
> 73 de Brennan N4QX
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, July 13, 2020, 11:23:15 PM EDT, Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Brennan,
>
> Thank you very much for this discussion, and please bear with me for one
> more question. How much time are the candidates given to prepare, print,
> and have mailed their campaign documents between the time that AMSAT
> informs them that it ratifies their candidacy, and the time that the
> ballots are mailed?
>
> It seems very likely that some members will have voted before they could
> possibly receive the mailed campaign information.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bruce
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 7:44 PM Brennan Price via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> > I generally don't intend to engage in the ongoing discussion s beyond an
> announcement on process once the ballots are mailed (which they will be,
> tomorrow or Wednesday, on or before the date specified in the bylaws), but
> I do want to address what the Bylaws say about the organization's
> publications and mailing lists, as I think (perhaps na?vely) that would be
> helpful.
> > Article III Section 3 provides, in relevant part:
> > <<Duly nominated and eligible candidates shall be afforded equal
> opportunity to circulate statements of their qualifications and positions
> to the Members through the corporation?s publications and shall have use of
> the corporation?s mailing lists for election-related purposes at no cost to
> the corporation.>>
> > The production and publication schedule of the AMSAT Journal does not
> render it a suitable vehicle for candidate statements given the
> bylaws-mandated nomination and election timing. The absence of campaign
> statements from the Journal is entirely consistent with the Bylaws: no
> opportunity for any candidate is inherently equal opportunity for all
> candidates.
> > Traditionally, the organization has used the ballot mailing itself the
> relevant publication, and this is the approach that will be taken this
> year. The "equal opportunity" requirement and paper format (not to mention
> common practice across multiple organization's) necessitates a target word
> count, balanced to the extent possible against letting candidates have
> their say. All candidates met or came close to meeting the target I
> suggested (350 words), with the most long-winded exceeding by 14 words
> according to the Word 2016 word counter. Upon review, I offered the
> remaining candidates the chance to expand up to 364 words. None of them
> took the offer. All six statements will accompany the ballot, and none of
> them required editorial work beyond the correction of a repeated word and
> an excess space. I thank the candidates for making that part of the job
> easy.
> > I have construed the mailing list as the postal mailing list, which has
> been offered to each candidate (and thus far, five of the six have accepted
> the list). Data protection regulations require the corporation to take
> reasonable efforts to safeguard personally identifiable information, and
> candidates accepting the list have agreed to support those efforts by
> limiting use of the list for the "election-related purposes" specified in
> the bylaws. Two results follow:
> > 1) There are no election-related purposes once the election ends.
> Accordingly, candidates have agreed to discard the list after the election.
> > 2) It is common to engage agents for mailing and postage purposes. I
> will not hyper-officiate any candidate's choice to do so, but candidates
> have agreed that any agent will have access to the list only for the time
> necessary to execute the mailing and will be required by the candidate to
> discard it afterwards.
> > This is a reasonable effort to safeguard in light of the bylaws
> requirement for candidate access to mailing lists, which establishes an
> expectation (however infrequently it came to fruition in past) that members
> may receive election-related postal mail.
> > I think that's enough for now.
> > 73,Brennan Price, N4QXSecretary, AMSAT
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> >
>


-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)

From propgrinder at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 19:09:57 2020
From: propgrinder at gmail.com (Bob Hammond)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 12:09:57 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Candidate for BOD
In-Reply-To: <a8128d5d8ed34595d70f6ee746d6d78f@etczone.com>
References: <MN2PR14MB35179E88DC47CB61C3E91115E77E0@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAKoB7OrKT8YfcXwAq3McLtWmhdUEQ4T=3qo7Ls4Kx35Q+OQKWg@mail.gmail.com>
	<a8128d5d8ed34595d70f6ee746d6d78f@etczone.com>
Message-ID: <CAKoB7OrqB2GTHWZprStNS=HDJpnUMrqsxp8a9-Nnw9HuSKninA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Steve.

I think, in general, candidates would be sharing their backgrounds with the
AMSAT voters without us doing Google search.

Bob W7OTJ

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 11:47 AM Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

>
> A quick Google search came up with this:
> https://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Candidate%20Statement%20HD.pdf
>
> Steve AI9IN
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
> Date: 07/15/20 09:14
> To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Candidate for BOD
>
> Howie,
>
> I'd like a bit more background, please.  What do you do in real life?
> Employment, education, etc?
>
> Bob W7OTJ
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 1:53 AM Howie DeFelice via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From bruce at perens.com  Wed Jul 15 20:08:17 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 13:08:17 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
In-Reply-To: <1926115224.2079076.1594826975685@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
	<CAK2MWOvswX23Z=-hVErSjR8WkNVf3NNmY-YQmCEfxvA8+QEU1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<444557115.1777279.1594770243985@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAK2MWOvEGF4x9qbEWpawXMN=CVo7m3oQoPKUXwL2P2gZ_2FfcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1926115224.2079076.1594826975685@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOvVSx-Uixgr8dQKwSihMLsp8EXZd-3o=nTBbsZ+i-bb1w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 8:33 AM Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I would think someone as learned as you would at least provide the proper
> citation.
>

The statement was properly attributed to you. If you had made your report
to the membership I would have the whole thing, as it is I must rely on an
incomplete report.


> you would know that we were discussing the economic uncertainty at the
> very beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic.
>

That was always obvious. I would not expect that AMSAT even *could *be
doing excellently when we would not be getting the people walking up to the
booth at Hamvention, etc. And I would encourage members to pony up! I just
renewed my membership through 2022, and put $120 in the President's Circle.

But Robert, if I understand the Salary Protection Program, AMSAT is now
carrying debt, and this will increase for a while. I trust you to do
everything necessary to get the government to forgive that debt, and to
impress on the board that this is one thing that they just can't allow to
fail.

    Thanks

    Bruce

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 20:24:09 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 13:24:09 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Open Source Policy
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c84Fai5VG694jL+pvhP9jiFz0vmMojsSxfL9B3qS2GULg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
	<CAK2MWOvswX23Z=-hVErSjR8WkNVf3NNmY-YQmCEfxvA8+QEU1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOviRUcG6O0H2ONQwOZ7gEyyiB4SN_4Q4ZDhstX9zjBK=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-Rkyxr0HBdNYh0vSuCHsw_snpygu7gTHOLWvX=cZNvZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtoUsTb8uQTYDA6JazbfoFL+9LDhN5Z9OKrhwmkTEpf7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c84Fai5VG694jL+pvhP9jiFz0vmMojsSxfL9B3qS2GULg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2VwvHBxX3WHgdhPrOoTv2_1okr+i8DJBObHKcPJ4n+Ueg@mail.gmail.com>

Here are the answers.

1) It allows free and open international collaboration.
2) It removes bankruptingly expensive data management requirements intended
for proprietary companies.
3) It is the best way to reduce legal liability for volunteers in
non-commercial settings.

Taking advantage of the public domain carve outs is safe, sane, legal, and
will galvanize AMSAT engineering.

It requires publishing work as it is created, at minimal cost to an
organization.

It has been repeatedly recommended to AMSAT by experts as the way to go,
for over 10 years.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 1:03 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Bruce,
>
> You did not really answer the first question: "How does AMSAT benefit
> by pursuing an open source policy?"  The question is really unrelated
> to EAR/ITAR.  What i'm wondering is, if AMSAT published all of its
> hardware and software designs for everything, how does this benefit
> AMSAT?  This is probably the most important question from an
> organizational standpoint.
>
> I had been through a similar discussion with a private company that I
> worked for about a 3D visualization / Earth rendering product that was
> developed by the company.  It was a product that was similar to Google
> Earth and could easily compete with it from a rendering / efficiency /
> user experience standpoint.  The question was: Do we open source the
> software and give it out to the world to attract more people to the
> product / generate a new ecosystem for publicity, or do we keep it
> closed and generate revenue off custom software services.  The company
> chose option 2.  The bottom line was, if we put all the source out in
> the open, most engineering types would not pay us anything, even if we
> did an open/commercial licensing scheme.  Because, let's be honest,
> generally speaking, no-one wants to pay for anything, and that is
> especially true in the OSS world.  And even when you ask people to pay
> for something, they find clever ways to work around licensing and rip
> you off.  I think consulting services become more practical, when the
> technology that is being utilized is more technically challenging and
> there are deadlines involved.  That's why certain OSS products can use
> that model (of course, there are not many consulting opportunities for
> libtiff know-how :-).
>
> One comment on what you said about GPL "you use the GPL where you want
> companies to participate more, rather than just take your stuff and
> modify it in private, never returning anything."  This is a common
> misunderstanding / mis-representation of what the GPL does.  Companies
> are not required to 'return anything'.  It only protects the rights of
> down-stream recipients, not up-stream.  Examples in case others
> reading are not aware of this:
>
> - If an organization downloads, compiles and integrates a GPL
> libWhatever onto a chip in a satellite and the satellite is launched
> into space, there is no downstream recipient of the binaries.  The
> changes can remain within the private organization ad-infinitum.  The
> hardware floats around in a vaccum, maybe burns up in the atmosphere
> and we end up breathing it, outside of that, nothing needs to be given
> back to the community.
>
> - If I download, compile and integrate a GPL libWhatever onto a chip
> and then deliver the binary to say a University team for integration
> or to a customer for use.  Then, the University team or customer has a
> Right to be able to edit the source, etc... Their rights to
> edit/modify are protected.  But, that still doesn't mean the creator
> of libWhatever is guaranteed to receive anything back.
>
> AMSAT could establish an open source policy that would only provide
> licensed code to parties/organizations that agreed to integrate
> according to their terms and conditions.  These terms and conditions
> could be contingent upon AMSAT being a downstream-recipient of the
> software/hardware source/designs (work-products, etc...)  This would
> establish a symbiotic relationship between AMSAT and others with
> mutual benefit.  Others wish to utilize AMSATs software/hardware
> stack, integration know-how, etc... and AMSAT would be guaranteed to
> be on the receiving end of the changes.  AMSAT could also establish
> something like others have, where they have a licensed version that is
> not-permitted-to-fly and a "Pay-For" version that allows you to fly
> it.  It's an interesting idea and along the lines of what several
> other OSS projects do with dual oss, commercial options.
>
> On the whole protesting of ITAR/EAR and Defense Distributed, when you
> say the Federal Government lost, from a practical standpoint, that's
> not really true.  Legal hardship is real.  The end result was a
> private organization, unnecessarily being jerked around by the fed in
> a politically-motivated legal attack.  And then, being jerked-around
> again, by several states.  That cost them and it is still costing
> them, time and money.  The organization could not function during that
> period and is now forced to function differently.  Rules were
> re-written by the DOS, there was an ad-hoc "settlement" including an
> 'exclusive license'.  Isn't that awesome that a company is given an
> 'exclusive license' after being jerked around vs, just being left
> alone in the first place?  Also, Defcad requires you to create a
> login, submit Personally Identifiiable info (PII) to them (ID,
> etc...), etc... before you download anything from them.  That's, NOT
> Open.  I am not certain what they would do if a non-US Person
> attempted to sign up.  It's antithetical to a true, public open source
> process really.  If anything, this case is a shining example of why an
> organization Should:
>
> i) be very selective about what is publicized
> ii) work very cautiously with others in a way that reduces risk
>
> Basically, how AMSAT appears to operate right now.  Why? Because if
> the wrong politically-motivated person in the Department of Whatever
> (or friend of a girlfriend of a mistress of whomever) gets an itch,
> they can make your life a living hell.  And, while they sit back and
> collect a paycheck and have their pension well-funded during that time
> frame... You're left with a ruling in your favor (yaay!) but
> financially strapped, physically deteriorated due the stress and
> likely out of business.  This doesn't just happen in the ITAR realm
> either, look at what happened to the buckyballs company that sold the
> little magnets that you could build little structures out of.  They
> got dragged through the mud for years, for literally selling little
> round magnets...
>
> Joseph Armbruster
> KJ4JIO
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 10:20 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
> >
> > Michelle, working for ORI, hired a lawyer to take up the ITAR matter
> with the Federal Government, so she probably has some interesting
> information.
> >
> > I have left your questions in, so that this will make sense to readers.
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 6:08 PM Joseph Armbruster <
> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> 1) How does AMSAT benefit by pursuing an open source policy?
> >
> >
> > Both ITAR and EAR have a carve-out regarding published research. EAR
> says that things you publish on the Internet are not subject to the EAR.
> ITAR is a bit more difficult, they want you to publish it in a journal or
> put it in a library. There are lots of friendly college libraries who will
> put a blu-ray disk on a shelf for you. And then, you don't have to deal
> with ITAR regarding any digital data. You still have ITAR problems if you
> wish to ship a satellite across a national border, so it is best to
> fabricate it in the nation where it will be launched. And you must never
> provide defense services, not even to the USA. That means if someone you
> know is clearly working on a defense project asks a question on your
> mailing list, you need to explain nicely that they should get that
> information elsewhere because it would get you in trouble. And then tell
> the government. I think the last one I dealt with was from a defense
> company in Pakistan asking about Codec2. The government says thank
>  you for reporting this, it's important, but doesn't tell us any more.
> >
> > The whole Open Source community operates this way, and has no problem
> with ITAR. They are much bigger than AMSAT. And they make AI, cryptography,
> and many other things that are listed on the United States Munitions List.
> >
> >> 2) What are the disadvantages of AMSAT pursuing an open source policy?
> >
> >
> > It's really difficult to see any at this late date. Michelle and I have
> been to NASA meetings where it is really clear that they embrace Open
> Source internally. So does SpaceX, ULA less but Tory (CEO) is very easy to
> talk with. ESA is all over Open Source and there is a Librespace guy in
> European Central Bank who can make introductions for us. Legally, we could
> even cooperate with nations on the embargoed list, but at that point I
> would want explicit permission, no need to antagonize the government just
> because the law allows you to do something.
> >
> >> 3) Say a new project was about to start, where should all the design
> >> files, source code files, presentations, virtual machines, etc...
> >> live?
> >
> >
> > It's really easy to put everything on Github or Gitlab, in public mode.
> I wrote a script that mirrors ORI's github repositories to its own server,
> and we can just burn  a disc from that and put it in a library.
> >
> >> 4) What license would the items be released under (this one will be
> >> interesting to me)?
> >
> >
> > The important thing is that everyone have the right to read. Then, you
> satisfy the requirements in the ITAR and EAR carve-outs, if you also
> publish it on the internet and make it available in a library. Libraries
> often have web terminals, so I think that Internet is enough, but getting a
> library to host a disc is easy. So even a Creative Commons license would be
> adequate, but I suggest BSD if you want it to be available for commercial
> use without getting modifications returned to the community, or GPL if you
> would rather have modifications returned to the community. This is a short
> explanation of Open Source licensing, and I could go into subtleties at
> length.
> >
> > I generally prefer that hardware designs be placed in the public domain.
> Currently hardware is dubiously copyrightable due to 17 USC 102(b) and
> court cases I could discuss at length too. It is not to our advantage for
> courts to take our own example of attempting to copyright hardware designs
> and decide that hardware designs are actually copyrightable.
> >
> >> 4.a) Will the license be Free in a FreeRTOS or CGAL sortof way, where
> >> it's free for non-commercial use?
> >
> >
> > You can do that, since it is only necessary that it not be trade
> secret.  But everyone else doing this goes 100% Open Source, and we want to
> be able to share their work and have them share ours. The fact that
> AMSAT-EA works with Librespace and AMSAT-NA does not is suboptimal.
> >
> >> 5) How can satellite security be mitigated if the source is in the
> >> public domain?
> >
> >
> > You mean command and control? The simplest answer is that you use
> encryption to command the satellite, and you don't have to publish your
> cryptographic key. It's data, not the software. However, I have a design
> for terrestrial cryptographic signature that fits the FCC rules that
> prohibit cryptography that obscures the message. Digital signature does not
> obscure the message, it just authenticates it.
> >
> > AMSAT used to use a secret data word and exclusive-OR to encrypt
> communications.Very primitive and implemented in discrete logic chips. This
> is explicitly permitted by FCC for satellites rather than terrestrial ham
> radio. I would hope that we could do digital signature today.
> >
> > > 6) Are you satisfied with the way AMSAT development currently takes
> place or do you feel there is a need to change development practices?
> >
> > My personal opinion is that a lot of the ITAR mess we are currently in
> would go away if AMSAT went to a 100% Open Source policy like most of the
> newer Amateur Space organizations. Unfortunately, we have engaged ITAR
> attorneys who have only worked with proprietary companies, where trade
> secret is necessary, and thus ITAR must apply. Open Source is new to them.
> >
> > One of the most difficult jobs of a manager is managing legal counsel.
> Most managers don't understand what counsel is saying OR what questions to
> ask. And I have seen few managers that are equipped to push back or who
> even understand that pushing back is possible. Sometimes you have to bring
> your lawyer into new areas they have never explored - although that is less
> so than 20 years ago when Open Source was new, and they are very likely to
> give you the determinations that they made for some proprietary corporation
> which are entirely wrong for your public benefit non-profit.
> >
> > In my consulting business, which mainly services law firms and their
> customers, I have met many attorneys who are up to speed on Open Source and
> intellectual property. There are fewer attorneys who are up to speed on
> Open Source and ITAR, and I would spend some time with them to discuss the
> issues.
> >
> >>
> >> 7) Do you think AMSAT would benefit by adopting an open source policy
> >> where all materials are placed in the public domain?
> >
> >
> > There are two "public domains". There is public domain in the sense of
> copyright abandonment and patent and copyright expiration, and then ITAR
> 121 uses the words "public domain" to mean "public knowledge". In general
> most Open Source communities do not use public domain, because the laws of
> many nations, including the United States, do not actually define that an
> affirmative dedication of a work to the public domain has legal meaning.
> They define public domain only in the sense of copyright and patent
> expiration. So, we have contrivances like the CC0 license to work around
> that, which is a public domain declaration if the national law and court
> likes that, but a liberal license otherwise. But most Open Source teams
> would choose a very liberal license like the BSD, where the only real
> requirements are that you preserve attribution (and everyone likes
> attribution) and the license text. Or, you use the GPL where you want
> companies to participate more, rather than just take your stuff
>   and modify it in private, never returning anything.
> >
> >> 8) Can you see any landmines or pitfalls from doing so (technical,
> >> legal, etc...)?
> >
> >
> > I really put myself out there trying to attract the attention of the
> Federal Government in protesting ORI's ITAR/EAR policy, and got no
> interest. This may have been because of the Defense Distributed case, which
> was about gun plans online, and I don't want to get into a 2nd amendment
> discussion, but once the Federal Government lost that they didn't have much
> to go after _us_ about.
> >
> > The landmine is that if you need lawyers. If you don't do this, you also
> need lawyers :-)
> >
> >> I wanted to ask about this, since it's mentioned constantly, but
> >> OpenSource is a reasonably loose term that means different strokes to
> >> different folks.
> >
> >
> > The Open Source Definition at Opensource.org is the one I wrote.
> >
> >     Thanks
> >
> >     Bruce
> > --
> > Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
> eventually :-)
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From bruce at perens.com  Wed Jul 15 20:30:43 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 13:30:43 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Open Source Policy
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2VwvHBxX3WHgdhPrOoTv2_1okr+i8DJBObHKcPJ4n+Ueg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AED5687B-DDD0-4D0C-BC13-023F049D8916@wintek.com>
	<CAK2MWOvswX23Z=-hVErSjR8WkNVf3NNmY-YQmCEfxvA8+QEU1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOviRUcG6O0H2ONQwOZ7gEyyiB4SN_4Q4ZDhstX9zjBK=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-Rkyxr0HBdNYh0vSuCHsw_snpygu7gTHOLWvX=cZNvZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtoUsTb8uQTYDA6JazbfoFL+9LDhN5Z9OKrhwmkTEpf7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c84Fai5VG694jL+pvhP9jiFz0vmMojsSxfL9B3qS2GULg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2VwvHBxX3WHgdhPrOoTv2_1okr+i8DJBObHKcPJ4n+Ueg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOumyAcCcOzaQDr263Gg5oSi_+53LWJ8yWEAN7kKaBDv5g@mail.gmail.com>

I should also note that our request for the government to clarify that our
interpretation of their rules is "valid" (in quotes because courts have the
final say) has been delayed by COVID-19 issues in their offices.

From rwyrwas48 at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 20:43:01 2020
From: rwyrwas48 at gmail.com (RickW)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 20:43:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb]
	=?utf-8?q?Who_I=E2=80=99m_NOT_Voting_For_=28Short=29?=
In-Reply-To: <351DD49D-DF83-4E60-ABE5-0F8914F1666A@mac.com>
References: <351DD49D-DF83-4E60-ABE5-0F8914F1666A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <2012708814.1602970.1594845781271@mail.yahoo.com>

 And in the great scheme of things, who cares what you think??
RickWA9JBQ
    On Wednesday, July 15, 2020, 09:10:58 AM CDT, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 Patrick and Jeff created a Web site In 2018 using my Web site?s name - but added the plural of my work-sat.com - they used ?Sats.?

The site was solely created to demean myself and Gordon West. The posts were obscene, vile, insulting, and vicious in their attacks. Most of their posts are too objectionable to post on a public forum like this: posts like two rats fornicating and writing that my satellite inquiry phone number of 800-999-SATS could also use the alpha characters, 800-999-RATS.

If anyone is interested in reading screenshots of their work, I will privately email them to you. 

Stoddard and Johns will not be receiving my vote. 

Clint Bradford K6LCS
909-999-SATS

PS They let the GoDaddy domain name expire after a year. I registered it immediately - and it is now redirected to my site.
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From sjdevience at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 20:48:49 2020
From: sjdevience at gmail.com (Stephen DeVience)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 15:48:49 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb]  AMSAT Open Source Policy
Message-ID: <CAMPfQQC7VU18Oy9nFvwvuk+DiFmci9f-YbzNrP=qudO2vSNaWg@mail.gmail.com>

Bruce, thank you for this explanation of the ITAR issues. It looks like
AMSAT is at a fork in the road here regarding how to deal with it.

I see the positives of having an open-source policy as
1) AMSAT will be able to work with international partners, which would
probably not be allowed under a proprietary ITAR policy.
2) It may help keep old satellites running in the future. AO-27 required an
extensive software fix to be brought online. I'm not sure if this was open
source or not, but having the software and hardware information public
would definitely give more people a chance to develop solutions.
3) It's in the spirit of amateur radio and helps avoid debates regarding
proprietary hardware and software, like the never-ending arguments over
PACTOR.

I can see negatives as well
1) Manufacturers of space-rated hardware may want certain aspects kept
private, and it might not be possible to easily find or make an open-source
replacement. How extensive is the ITAR carve-out? If you use just one
proprietary component, does that take you out of the carve-out?
2) It may force AMSAT to abandon long-standing relationships (whatever's in
those NDAs), which could greatly affect ongoing projects.

I'd like to hear a response from those wanting to keep a proprietary
policy. What about it outweighs an open policy? Would an open policy work,
but maybe further down the road?

If AMSAT won't call BOD meetings to have civilized discussions, maybe we
can do it over the BB :)

-Stephen, N8URE

From johnag9d at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 21:36:39 2020
From: johnag9d at gmail.com (John Spasojevich)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 14:36:39 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb]
	=?utf-8?q?Who_I=E2=80=99m_NOT_Voting_For_=28Short=29?=
In-Reply-To: <16976F65-3803-4B8C-9A6E-5FF6EC1DBE92@gmail.com>
References: <351DD49D-DF83-4E60-ABE5-0F8914F1666A@mac.com>
	<16976F65-3803-4B8C-9A6E-5FF6EC1DBE92@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+qbou46tNd-gkC29XUT4aJXbe-hR=kCUX4bSGWWU_sEvwSnDg@mail.gmail.com>

I took a tour...man what the hell...it reminds me of the old ham sexy
website in some ways.

What?s the point.

John AG9D

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020, Mike Diehl via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Clint,
>
> No need to send screenshots, everyone can just use the Wayback Machine
> here http://web.archive.org/web/20181227011914/http://work-sats.com/
>
> 73,
> Mike Diehl
> W8LID/VE6LID
>
> > On Jul 15, 2020, at 10:10, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > ?Patrick and Jeff created a Web site In 2018 using my Web site?s name -
> but added the plural of my work-sat.com - they used ?Sats.?
> >
> > The site was solely created to demean myself and Gordon West. The posts
> were obscene, vile, insulting, and vicious in their attacks. Most of their
> posts are too objectionable to post on a public forum like this: posts like
> two rats fornicating and writing that my satellite inquiry phone number of
> 800-999-SATS could also use the alpha characters, 800-999-RATS.
> >
> > If anyone is interested in reading screenshots of their work, I will
> privately email them to you.
> >
> > Stoddard and Johns will not be receiving my vote.
> >
> > Clint Bradford K6LCS
> > 909-999-SATS
> >
> > PS They let the GoDaddy domain name expire after a year. I registered it
> immediately - and it is now redirected to my site.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From bruce at perens.com  Wed Jul 15 21:43:32 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 14:43:32 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb]
	=?utf-8?q?Who_I=E2=80=99m_NOT_Voting_For_=28Short=29?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+qbou46tNd-gkC29XUT4aJXbe-hR=kCUX4bSGWWU_sEvwSnDg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <351DD49D-DF83-4E60-ABE5-0F8914F1666A@mac.com>
	<16976F65-3803-4B8C-9A6E-5FF6EC1DBE92@gmail.com>
	<CA+qbou46tNd-gkC29XUT4aJXbe-hR=kCUX4bSGWWU_sEvwSnDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOsdVQj6NRuxHYusZ8ysKCX_z1EHSwxGpWMBf-YxPNCo_A@mail.gmail.com>

You're going to bring the moderator down on the list again.

From spatrickfay at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 22:33:23 2020
From: spatrickfay at gmail.com (sean fay)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 17:33:23 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb]
	=?utf-8?q?Who_I=E2=80=99m_NOT_Voting_For_=28Short=29?=
In-Reply-To: <C607803B-B3B5-4A79-B5A0-07229862539D@comcast.net>
References: <351DD49D-DF83-4E60-ABE5-0F8914F1666A@mac.com>
	<16976F65-3803-4B8C-9A6E-5FF6EC1DBE92@gmail.com>
	<C607803B-B3B5-4A79-B5A0-07229862539D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAEWsTrNvdkj_Moe_ePfTLzyoBhooRRbKjnOVcTKk=dAgutamQg@mail.gmail.com>

Yes the racist lid that this website describes should not be voted for


Glad you agree

AA0AN

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 5:26 PM Greg via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> LID/LCS
>
> Wow, that is so chidish it borders on issues with emotional IQ ?glad you
> brought that to my attention because it will influence my vote..
>
> N3MVF
>
>
>
> On Jul 15, 2020, at 11:17 AM, Mike Diehl via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
> Clint,
>
> No need to send screenshots, everyone can just use the Wayback Machine
> here http://web.archive.org/web/20181227011914/http://work-sats.com/
>
> 73,
> Mike Diehl
> W8LID/VE6LID
>
> > On Jul 15, 2020, at 10:10, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > ?Patrick and Jeff created a Web site In 2018 using my Web site?s name -
> but added the plural of my work-sat.com - they used ?Sats.?
> >
> > The site was solely created to demean myself and Gordon West. The posts
> were obscene, vile, insulting, and vicious in their attacks. Most of their
> posts are too objectionable to post on a public forum like this: posts like
> two rats fornicating and writing that my satellite inquiry phone number of
> 800-999-SATS could also use the alpha characters, 800-999-RATS.
> >
> > If anyone is interested in reading screenshots of their work, I will
> privately email them to you.
> >
> > Stoddard and Johns will not be receiving my vote.
> >
> > Clint Bradford K6LCS
> > 909-999-SATS
> >
> > PS They let the GoDaddy domain name expire after a year. I registered it
> immediately - and it is now redirected to my site.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From bruce at perens.com  Wed Jul 15 23:11:10 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 16:11:10 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Open Source Policy
In-Reply-To: <CAMPfQQC7VU18Oy9nFvwvuk+DiFmci9f-YbzNrP=qudO2vSNaWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMPfQQC7VU18Oy9nFvwvuk+DiFmci9f-YbzNrP=qudO2vSNaWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOu2GoqoDfyXEQrg=G8Bxh6_CCyHy7K0LMin4Jcz13SB9g@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 1:51 PM Stephen DeVience via AMSAT-BB <amsat-.

> I can see negatives as well
> 1) Manufacturers of space-rated hardware may want certain aspects kept
> private, and it might not be possible to easily find or make an open-source
> replacement. How extensive is the ITAR carve-out? If you use just one
> proprietary component, does that take you out of the carve-out?
>

It depends. If it is a black box and you interface to it as an open
protocol, you don't have proprietary data - which is the ITAR trigger. If
you have to enter into NDAs, etc., you will need to establish an ITAR
project within the larger ITAR-free organization. Frankly, I don't see that
it will often be worthwhile to do this, simply because the administrative
overhead is so much higher. However if it is very technically desirable,
establishing a compartmentalised project is eminently possible.

We did this for Phase 4. You remember that Bob McGwier and Michelle were
major technical leads on Phase 4, and the original concepts of the project
included things that I suggested to Rich Hambly in 2007. I remained a
contributor to the project. The amateur part of satellite was an ITAR
compartmentalized project, the ground station was Open Source.  My
understanding is that FEMA got screwed over by a vendor, and then our
friend the FEMA director left during and administration change or
something, and we never got the satellite.

Development of Phase 4 continues at ORI, with both sides Open Source. ORI
is an AMSAT member organization. This is our band-aid for AMSAT being
uncomfortable with Open Source and not yet having an appropriate policy.

2) It may force AMSAT to abandon long-standing relationships (whatever's in
> those NDAs), which could greatly affect ongoing projects.
>

Keep the old stuff as ITAR compartmentalized until it's over, if that
matters. The fact is we have not been launching all that much and it is
hard to see from here where are those critical partnerships would be.

This is not entirely an either-or situation. Nobody is asking AMSAT to jump
off a cliff.

Thanks

Bruce

From k7trkradio at charter.net  Wed Jul 15 23:11:54 2020
From: k7trkradio at charter.net (Ted Krempa)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 16:11:54 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] best android sat program?
Message-ID: <000001d65afd$5827d700$08778500$@charter.net>

.just inherited wife's old android tablet..(Asus ZenPad)

 

What is the recommended sat tracking program for an android tablet?

 

73, Ted

K7TRK


From mat_62 at charter.net  Wed Jul 15 23:45:00 2020
From: mat_62 at charter.net (Michael Tondee)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 19:45:00 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Wayback Machine
In-Reply-To: <7f606464-43dd-cf0d-3c7f-10e93c8f89ec@charter.net>
References: <7f606464-43dd-cf0d-3c7f-10e93c8f89ec@charter.net>
Message-ID: <671fc3bd-588f-ff56-78d4-f69a35254414@charter.net>

Subject: 	Re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 257
Date: 	Wed, 15 Jul 2020 13:07:42 -0400
From: 	Michael Tondee <mat_62 at charter.net>
To: 	amsat-bb-request at amsat.org





> Wow, thanks for the link! Looks like a hilarious sendup of a known 
> huckster that has been using AMSAT for his own self promotion for 
> years! Bravo to Patrick and Jeff, well done, they have him pegged 
> perfectly.

73,

Michael W4HIJ

>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 11:17:03 -0400
> From: Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a at gmail.com>
> To: Clint Bradford <clintbradford at mac.com>
> Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who I?m NOT Voting For (Short)
> Message-ID: <16976F65-3803-4B8C-9A6E-5FF6EC1DBE92 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Clint,
>
> No need to send screenshots, everyone can just use the Wayback Machine 
> here http://web.archive.org/web/20181227011914/http://work-sats.com/
>
> 73,
> Mike Diehl
> W8LID/VE6LID
>
>> On Jul 15, 2020, at 10:10, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB 
>> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>> ?Patrick and Jeff created a Web site In 2018 using my Web site?s name 
>> - but added the plural of my work-sat.com - they used ?Sats.?
>>
>> The site was solely created to demean myself and Gordon West. The 
>> posts were obscene, vile, insulting, and vicious in their attacks. 
>> Most of their posts are too objectionable to post on a public forum 
>> like this: posts like two rats fornicating and writing that my 
>> satellite inquiry phone number of 800-999-SATS could also use the 
>> alpha characters, 800-999-RATS.
>>
>> If anyone is interested in reading screenshots of their work, I will 
>> privately email them to you.
>>
>> Stoddard and Johns will not be receiving my vote.
>>
>> Clint Bradford K6LCS
>> 909-999-SATS
>>
>> PS They let the GoDaddy domain name expire after a year. I registered 
>> it immediately - and it is now redirected to my site.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. 
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views 
>> of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite 
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>

From dgbartholomew at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 23:48:39 2020
From: dgbartholomew at gmail.com (David Bartholomew)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 16:48:39 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] best android sat program?
Message-ID: <CAMfCzcyg8e_6eHRFU232T6ZBzqiqEvCcLuqUr3c1_USMWZc_jg@mail.gmail.com>

I use two:

AmsatDroid Free
ISS Detector Pro

The AmsatDroidFree is free, but the satellites are listed in order by age
and it's a little cumbersome to find the one you want. You can look at only
one sat at a time and the prediction only goes out 24 hours ahead.  But,
it's free.

ISS Detector Pro. The base version only tracks the ISS, so you need to pay
a little bit for the add-ons, which include all the ham sats.  You can
customize a list of your favorite sats and see which ones are coming, in
date/time order.  Very nice app.

Dave AD7DB

From kb2mjeff at att.net  Thu Jul 16 00:17:08 2020
From: kb2mjeff at att.net (kb2mjeff at att.net)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 20:17:08 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb]
	=?utf-8?q?Who_I=E2=80=99m_NOT_Voting_For_=28Short=29?=
In-Reply-To: <16976F65-3803-4B8C-9A6E-5FF6EC1DBE92@gmail.com>
References: <351DD49D-DF83-4E60-ABE5-0F8914F1666A@mac.com>
	<16976F65-3803-4B8C-9A6E-5FF6EC1DBE92@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <059001d65b06$71fdfb10$55f9f130$@att.net>

I must say, there is some humor in all of this ?

 

73 Jeff kb2m

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Mike Diehl via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 11:17
To: Clint Bradford <clintbradford at mac.com>
Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who I?m NOT Voting For (Short)

 

Clint, 

 

No need to send screenshots, everyone can just use the Wayback Machine here  <http://web.archive.org/web/20181227011914/http:/work-sats.com/> http://web.archive.org/web/20181227011914/http://work-sats.com/

 

73,

Mike Diehl

W8LID/VE6LID

 

> On Jul 15, 2020, at 10:10, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB < <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> 

> ?Patrick and Jeff created a Web site In 2018 using my Web site?s name - but added the plural of my work-sat.com - they used ?Sats.?

> 

> The site was solely created to demean myself and Gordon West. The posts were obscene, vile, insulting, and vicious in their attacks. Most of their posts are too objectionable to post on a public forum like this: posts like two rats fornicating and writing that my satellite inquiry phone number of 800-999-SATS could also use the alpha characters, 800-999-RATS.

> 

> If anyone is interested in reading screenshots of their work, I will privately email them to you. 

> 

> Stoddard and Johns will not be receiving my vote. 

> 

> Clint Bradford K6LCS

> 909-999-SATS

> 

> PS They let the GoDaddy domain name expire after a year. I registered it immediately - and it is now redirected to my site.

> _______________________________________________

> Sent via  <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available 

> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. 

> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.

> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!

> Subscription settings:  <https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

_______________________________________________

Sent via  <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.

Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!

Subscription settings:  <https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From framirezferrer at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 00:31:33 2020
From: framirezferrer at gmail.com (Fernando Ramirez)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 17:31:33 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb]
	=?utf-8?q?Who_I=E2=80=99m_NOT_Voting_For_=28Short=29?=
In-Reply-To: <C607803B-B3B5-4A79-B5A0-07229862539D@comcast.net>
References: <351DD49D-DF83-4E60-ABE5-0F8914F1666A@mac.com>
	<16976F65-3803-4B8C-9A6E-5FF6EC1DBE92@gmail.com>
	<C607803B-B3B5-4A79-B5A0-07229862539D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAGHXx8iJ+ROyfb_gzUQT=Ju8hBBz7VxmmBJS1r7rz_-uSi=o3Q@mail.gmail.com>

Perhaps Clint or Mike (since he made the same allegation in the past
against Patrick) can provide irrefutable proof that both were behind that
page.

73
KF7R

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 3:27 PM Greg via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> LID/LCS
>
> Wow, that is so chidish it borders on issues with emotional IQ ?glad you
> brought that to my attention because it will influence my vote..
>
> N3MVF
>
>
>
> On Jul 15, 2020, at 11:17 AM, Mike Diehl via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
> Clint,
>
> No need to send screenshots, everyone can just use the Wayback Machine
> here http://web.archive.org/web/20181227011914/http://work-sats.com/
>
> 73,
> Mike Diehl
> W8LID/VE6LID
>
> > On Jul 15, 2020, at 10:10, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > ?Patrick and Jeff created a Web site In 2018 using my Web site?s name -
> but added the plural of my work-sat.com - they used ?Sats.?
> >
> > The site was solely created to demean myself and Gordon West. The posts
> were obscene, vile, insulting, and vicious in their attacks. Most of their
> posts are too objectionable to post on a public forum like this: posts like
> two rats fornicating and writing that my satellite inquiry phone number of
> 800-999-SATS could also use the alpha characters, 800-999-RATS.
> >
> > If anyone is interested in reading screenshots of their work, I will
> privately email them to you.
> >
> > Stoddard and Johns will not be receiving my vote.
> >
> > Clint Bradford K6LCS
> > 909-999-SATS
> >
> > PS They let the GoDaddy domain name expire after a year. I registered it
> immediately - and it is now redirected to my site.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From diehl.mike.a at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 00:52:14 2020
From: diehl.mike.a at gmail.com (Mike Diehl)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 20:52:14 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb]
	=?utf-8?q?Who_I=E2=80=99m_NOT_Voting_For_=28Short=29?=
In-Reply-To: <CAGHXx8iJ+ROyfb_gzUQT=Ju8hBBz7VxmmBJS1r7rz_-uSi=o3Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGHXx8iJ+ROyfb_gzUQT=Ju8hBBz7VxmmBJS1r7rz_-uSi=o3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <941EA805-4998-474B-BAD0-4C10EE19A71D@gmail.com>

Anyone with the capacity to assemble a 3 element Yagi properly should be able to easily connect the dots between posts on other platforms and those on the website in question. 

73,
Mike Diehl
W8LID/VE6LID

> On Jul 15, 2020, at 20:31, Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Perhaps Clint or Mike (since he made the same allegation in the past against Patrick) can provide irrefutable proof that both were behind that page.
> 
> 73 
> KF7R 
> 
>> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 3:27 PM Greg via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> LID/LCS
>> 
>> Wow, that is so chidish it borders on issues with emotional IQ ?glad you brought that to my attention because it will influence my vote..
>> 
>> N3MVF
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 15, 2020, at 11:17 AM, Mike Diehl via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Clint, 
>> 
>> No need to send screenshots, everyone can just use the Wayback Machine here http://web.archive.org/web/20181227011914/http://work-sats.com/
>> 
>> 73,
>> Mike Diehl
>> W8LID/VE6LID
>> 
>> > On Jul 15, 2020, at 10:10, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> > 
>> > ?Patrick and Jeff created a Web site In 2018 using my Web site?s name - but added the plural of my work-sat.com - they used ?Sats.?
>> > 
>> > The site was solely created to demean myself and Gordon West. The posts were obscene, vile, insulting, and vicious in their attacks. Most of their posts are too objectionable to post on a public forum like this: posts like two rats fornicating and writing that my satellite inquiry phone number of 800-999-SATS could also use the alpha characters, 800-999-RATS.
>> > 
>> > If anyone is interested in reading screenshots of their work, I will privately email them to you. 
>> > 
>> > Stoddard and Johns will not be receiving my vote. 
>> > 
>> > Clint Bradford K6LCS
>> > 909-999-SATS
>> > 
>> > PS They let the GoDaddy domain name expire after a year. I registered it immediately - and it is now redirected to my site.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From framirezferrer at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 01:05:14 2020
From: framirezferrer at gmail.com (Fernando Ramirez)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 18:05:14 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb]
	=?utf-8?q?Who_I=E2=80=99m_NOT_Voting_For_=28Short=29?=
In-Reply-To: <57BAB657-2C1B-4BDC-8C3A-3A1DCC6B832F@me.com>
References: <57BAB657-2C1B-4BDC-8C3A-3A1DCC6B832F@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAGHXx8hLr0rurh8cDjntqamN2w22U-Qvwt+=KMvFTbBP3pSSbQ@mail.gmail.com>

Are you paying attention to the whole thread? Or maybe my English (my
second language) is that bad.

KF7R


On Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 5:55 PM Clint Bradford <clintbradford at me.com> wrote:

> I have never written nor spoken to anyone about this Web site. You
> cannot cite anything from me - andI just don?t know who ?Mike? is.
>
> Clint Bradford K6LCS
>
>
>
>
> >> Perhaps Clint or Mike (since he made the same allegation in the past
> against Patrick) can provide irrefutable proof that both were behind that
> page.
>
> 73
> KF7R
>

From bruce at perens.com  Thu Jul 16 01:08:49 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 18:08:49 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb]
	=?utf-8?q?Who_I=E2=80=99m_NOT_Voting_For_=28Short=29?=
In-Reply-To: <CAFeVdEOiJVV5d-MVw0um9iXBajDt48zwA8nE7-_WMb-mfbS0XQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <351DD49D-DF83-4E60-ABE5-0F8914F1666A@mac.com>
	<16976F65-3803-4B8C-9A6E-5FF6EC1DBE92@gmail.com>
	<CA+qbou46tNd-gkC29XUT4aJXbe-hR=kCUX4bSGWWU_sEvwSnDg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOsdVQj6NRuxHYusZ8ysKCX_z1EHSwxGpWMBf-YxPNCo_A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFeVdEOiJVV5d-MVw0um9iXBajDt48zwA8nE7-_WMb-mfbS0XQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOvqdwHEPj0Rk3SgTG7-2SqP6Oz-zjnFaziAvPK1GzXMTA@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/AMSAT_AUP_061819.pdf

From framirezferrer at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 01:10:18 2020
From: framirezferrer at gmail.com (Fernando Ramirez)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 18:10:18 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb]
	=?utf-8?q?Who_I=E2=80=99m_NOT_Voting_For_=28Short=29?=
In-Reply-To: <CAGHXx8h+9snZNes3e+bjOLyJ=DFx0FzL_Ucb=wxfXyOyevehLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGHXx8iJ+ROyfb_gzUQT=Ju8hBBz7VxmmBJS1r7rz_-uSi=o3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<941EA805-4998-474B-BAD0-4C10EE19A71D@gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8h+9snZNes3e+bjOLyJ=DFx0FzL_Ucb=wxfXyOyevehLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGHXx8gAAy5jm9pYbLacGzY69VVxRP7_6_uztZLk0sKDYNWkQQ@mail.gmail.com>

> Oh wow, that was pretty bad. Imagine the audacity of switching two
> elements.
>
> Back to the subject, where's the evidence?
>



>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 5:52 PM Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Anyone with the capacity to assemble a 3 element Yagi properly should be
>> able to easily connect the dots between posts on other platforms and those
>> on the website in question.
>>
>> 73,
>> Mike Diehl
>> W8LID/VE6LID
>>
>> On Jul 15, 2020, at 20:31, Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> Perhaps Clint or Mike (since he made the same allegation in the past
>> against Patrick) can provide irrefutable proof that both were behind that
>> page.
>>
>> 73
>> KF7R
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 3:27 PM Greg via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> LID/LCS
>>>
>>> Wow, that is so chidish it borders on issues with emotional IQ ?glad you
>>> brought that to my attention because it will influence my vote..
>>>
>>> N3MVF
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 15, 2020, at 11:17 AM, Mike Diehl via AMSAT-BB <
>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Clint,
>>>
>>> No need to send screenshots, everyone can just use the Wayback Machine
>>> here http://web.archive.org/web/20181227011914/http://work-sats.com/
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Mike Diehl
>>> W8LID/VE6LID
>>>
>>> > On Jul 15, 2020, at 10:10, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <
>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > ?Patrick and Jeff created a Web site In 2018 using my Web site?s name
>>> - but added the plural of my work-sat.com - they used ?Sats.?
>>> >
>>> > The site was solely created to demean myself and Gordon West. The
>>> posts were obscene, vile, insulting, and vicious in their attacks. Most of
>>> their posts are too objectionable to post on a public forum like this:
>>> posts like two rats fornicating and writing that my satellite inquiry phone
>>> number of 800-999-SATS could also use the alpha characters, 800-999-RATS.
>>> >
>>> > If anyone is interested in reading screenshots of their work, I will
>>> privately email them to you.
>>> >
>>> > Stoddard and Johns will not be receiving my vote.
>>> >
>>> > Clint Bradford K6LCS
>>> > 909-999-SATS
>>> >
>>> > PS They let the GoDaddy domain name expire after a year. I registered
>>> it immediately - and it is now redirected to my site.
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions expressed
>>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>> of AMSAT-NA.
>>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>

From rhyolite at leikhim.com  Thu Jul 16 01:19:45 2020
From: rhyolite at leikhim.com (Joe Leikhim)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 21:19:45 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb]  AMSAT Open Source Policy
Message-ID: <2ba40607-6073-e7f2-12a8-64e10f56cbc7@leikhim.com>

/Joseph; you wax on about intellectual property and symbiotic 
relationships etc, and then ask /
//"How does AMSAT benefit b//y pursuing an open source policy?" May I 
ask, how in the past 10 years has AMSAT benefited by running the 
proprietary system they are running now? You would think the AMSAT bank 
accounts would be overflowing and invitations for HEO launches would be 
so many we would be turning them down? Please answer this before 
belittling the proposition. / On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 7:21 AM Joseph 
Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com 
<https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb>> wrote: />>//>>/You did not really answer the first question: "How does AMSAT benefit />>/by pursuing an open source policy?" />

-- 
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

JLeikhim at Leikhim.com

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM


From kb2ysi at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 01:36:03 2020
From: kb2ysi at gmail.com (Don KB2YSI)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 21:36:03 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] best android sat program?
In-Reply-To: <CAMfCzcyg8e_6eHRFU232T6ZBzqiqEvCcLuqUr3c1_USMWZc_jg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMfCzcyg8e_6eHRFU232T6ZBzqiqEvCcLuqUr3c1_USMWZc_jg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAJiE8NHh3KPwt_f5YvxQGOyNhj5MQcR7r2iTMypT2W5W=cBCg@mail.gmail.com>

I switched to ISS Detector a few years ago and rarely use anything else.
Beware that the pass calculation is done in the cloud, so if you are going
off grid you may want to get another app.

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 21:33 David Bartholomew via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I use two:
>
> AmsatDroid Free
> ISS Detector Pro
>
> The AmsatDroidFree is free, but the satellites are listed in order by age
> and it's a little cumbersome to find the one you want. You can look at only
> one sat at a time and the prediction only goes out 24 hours ahead.  But,
> it's free.
>
> ISS Detector Pro. The base version only tracks the ISS, so you need to pay
> a little bit for the add-ons, which include all the ham sats.  You can
> customize a list of your favorite sats and see which ones are coming, in
> date/time order.  Very nice app.
>
> Dave AD7DB
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From tjschuessler at verizon.net  Thu Jul 16 01:46:47 2020
From: tjschuessler at verizon.net (tjschuessler at verizon.net)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 20:46:47 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] QSO Today Virtual Ham Expo
References: <019d01d65b12$f7fcd810$e7f68830$.ref@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <019d01d65b12$f7fcd810$e7f68830$@verizon.net>

I am sure you have seen information about this on ARRL or other Amateur
Radio news outlets.  Is anybody from the AMSAT Ambassadors or volunteers
planning on trying to sign up for a speakers slot for this?  Lots of other
ham activities are represented.  It would be a shame if we were not there
promoting Amateur Radio in Space.  I will if no one else will, but I think
we have a bunch of good presenters in our ranks and we should be
represented.  Hopefully it is not too late to get a slot.

Tom Schuessler, N5HYP
EM12ms




From johnbrier at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 02:24:45 2020
From: johnbrier at gmail.com (John Brier)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 22:24:45 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] best android sat program?
In-Reply-To: <000001d65afd$5827d700$08778500$@charter.net>
References: <000001d65afd$5827d700$08778500$@charter.net>
Message-ID: <CALn0fKP6cX0xTF62QqVX=tstdkGbBddXx8EzXgWYaNCDX2ukaA@mail.gmail.com>

ISS Detector Pro IMO.

I like it because I can select just the sats I want to see via
filters, and at a glance I can open it up and see what sats are coming
in range in the next few hours, or days

http://sats.wikidot.com/what-apps-can-i-use-to-track-satellites

73, John Brier KG4AKV

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 9:27 PM Ted Krempa via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> .just inherited wife's old android tablet..(Asus ZenPad)
>
>
>
> What is the recommended sat tracking program for an android tablet?
>
>
>
> 73, Ted
>
> K7TRK
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 03:01:57 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 23:01:57 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Open Source Policy
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOu2GoqoDfyXEQrg=G8Bxh6_CCyHy7K0LMin4Jcz13SB9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMPfQQC7VU18Oy9nFvwvuk+DiFmci9f-YbzNrP=qudO2vSNaWg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOu2GoqoDfyXEQrg=G8Bxh6_CCyHy7K0LMin4Jcz13SB9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c-72c6JZsbv6fo0Rsc7T8dTy5eL-w7fDhpa7-FmDEVx+w@mail.gmail.com>

Bruce,

When you say "Development of Phase 4 continues at ORI".  What is Phase
4 development?  For how long has it been taking place and what does it
encompass?

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 9:25 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 1:51 PM Stephen DeVience via AMSAT-BB <amsat-.
>
> > I can see negatives as well
> > 1) Manufacturers of space-rated hardware may want certain aspects kept
> > private, and it might not be possible to easily find or make an open-source
> > replacement. How extensive is the ITAR carve-out? If you use just one
> > proprietary component, does that take you out of the carve-out?
> >
>
> It depends. If it is a black box and you interface to it as an open
> protocol, you don't have proprietary data - which is the ITAR trigger. If
> you have to enter into NDAs, etc., you will need to establish an ITAR
> project within the larger ITAR-free organization. Frankly, I don't see that
> it will often be worthwhile to do this, simply because the administrative
> overhead is so much higher. However if it is very technically desirable,
> establishing a compartmentalised project is eminently possible.
>
> We did this for Phase 4. You remember that Bob McGwier and Michelle were
> major technical leads on Phase 4, and the original concepts of the project
> included things that I suggested to Rich Hambly in 2007. I remained a
> contributor to the project. The amateur part of satellite was an ITAR
> compartmentalized project, the ground station was Open Source.  My
> understanding is that FEMA got screwed over by a vendor, and then our
> friend the FEMA director left during and administration change or
> something, and we never got the satellite.
>
> Development of Phase 4 continues at ORI, with both sides Open Source. ORI
> is an AMSAT member organization. This is our band-aid for AMSAT being
> uncomfortable with Open Source and not yet having an appropriate policy.
>
> 2) It may force AMSAT to abandon long-standing relationships (whatever's in
> > those NDAs), which could greatly affect ongoing projects.
> >
>
> Keep the old stuff as ITAR compartmentalized until it's over, if that
> matters. The fact is we have not been launching all that much and it is
> hard to see from here where are those critical partnerships would be.
>
> This is not entirely an either-or situation. Nobody is asking AMSAT to jump
> off a cliff.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bruce
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From aj9n at aol.com  Thu Jul 16 03:06:14 2020
From: aj9n at aol.com (aj9n at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 03:06:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] best android sat program?
In-Reply-To: <CALn0fKP6cX0xTF62QqVX=tstdkGbBddXx8EzXgWYaNCDX2ukaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000001d65afd$5827d700$08778500$@charter.net>
	<CALn0fKP6cX0xTF62QqVX=tstdkGbBddXx8EzXgWYaNCDX2ukaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <530379052.1708406.1594868774769@mail.yahoo.com>

For my Android phone, I use ISS Detector, AmsatDroid Free, and Heavens-Above.? I assume they would also work for Android tablets but I don't know that for a fact.
73,Charlie Sufana AJ9N
In a message dated 2020-07-15 22:25:55 Eastern Standard Time, amsat-bb at amsat.org writes:

ISS Detector Pro IMO.

I like it because I can select just the sats I want to see via
filters, and at a glance I can open it up and see what sats are coming
in range in the next few hours, or days

http://sats.wikidot.com/what-apps-can-i-use-to-track-satellites

73, John Brier KG4AKV

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 9:27 PM Ted Krempa via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> .just inherited wife's old android tablet..(Asus ZenPad)
>
>
>
> What is the recommended sat tracking program for an android tablet?
>
>
>
> 73, Ted
>
> K7TRK
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From howied231 at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 16 03:07:23 2020
From: howied231 at hotmail.com (Howie DeFelice)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 03:07:23 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] AB2S - more candidate info
Message-ID: <MN2PR14MB351747E533B9142F3F67AEBBE77F0@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

Some people have written and asked for more background information about me. Thanks for asking. I added a resume page on www.ab2s.freeservers.com<http://www.ab2s.freeservers.com> if anyone else is interested.

73,
Howie AB2S

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 03:30:52 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 23:30:52 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Open Source Policy
In-Reply-To: <2ba40607-6073-e7f2-12a8-64e10f56cbc7@leikhim.com>
References: <2ba40607-6073-e7f2-12a8-64e10f56cbc7@leikhim.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c9KAgmkUzCk44UtSKy9pceXq0q-1wWc0_YOA-mCtOa-nA@mail.gmail.com>

Joe Leikhim,

(note, i'm mobile, so apologies for typos)

I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone, if asking someone this
question... "How does AMSAT benefit by pursuing an open source
policy?"... really makes you feel like i'm belittling a proposition,
please re-read what I wrote.  The 'belittling' portion was your
original thought.  I was just pointing out how the GPL works...
belittle that.

"You would think the AMSAT bank accounts would be overflowing"

Well, I honestly don't know... I'll return the question because I, and
I assume many others reading have not seen financials, sohow are AMSAT
bank accounts doing?  From all accounts from the BB, I have no
evidence indicating the numbers are bad, except for hear-say...
Numbers please...?

"and invitations for HEO launches would be so many we would be turning
them down?"

Who is turning HEO launches down, and more specifically why?  Please clarify.

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 9:50 PM Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> /Joseph; you wax on about intellectual property and symbiotic
> relationships etc, and then ask /
> //"How does AMSAT benefit b//y pursuing an open source policy?" May I
> ask, how in the past 10 years has AMSAT benefited by running the
> proprietary system they are running now? You would think the AMSAT bank
> accounts would be overflowing and invitations for HEO launches would be
> so many we would be turning them down? Please answer this before
> belittling the proposition. / On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 7:21 AM Joseph
> Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com
> <https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb>> wrote: />>//>>/You did not really answer the first question: "How does AMSAT benefit />>/by pursuing an open source policy?" />
>
> --
> Joe Leikhim
>
>
> Leikhim and Associates
>
> Communications Consultants
>
> Oviedo, Florida
>
> JLeikhim at Leikhim.com
>
> 407-982-0446
>
> WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From framirezferrer at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 04:05:45 2020
From: framirezferrer at gmail.com (Fernando Ramirez)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 21:05:45 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AB2S - more candidate info
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR14MB351747E533B9142F3F67AEBBE77F0@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MN2PR14MB351747E533B9142F3F67AEBBE77F0@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAGHXx8jKD5EHvr1VX6xwoD6x17J7vxFYUix4Tx=GBowAmbERVw@mail.gmail.com>

Very interesting background. This is exactly the kind of expertise our
organization needs if we ever want to reach HEO/GEO, not flashy slogans and
websites.

You have my full support!

73
Fernando, KF7R

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 8:11 PM Howie DeFelice via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Some people have written and asked for more background information about
> me. Thanks for asking. I added a resume page on www.ab2s.freeservers.com<
> http://www.ab2s.freeservers.com> if anyone else is interested.
>
> 73,
> Howie AB2S
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From amsat.va7kbm at outlook.com  Thu Jul 16 01:52:40 2020
From: amsat.va7kbm at outlook.com (VA7KBM)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 18:52:40 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <MWHPR04MB37425EA715C9F36BA52C2BA8DC7F0@MWHPR04MB3742.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Hello everyone,

As others have pointed out, there can be very significant downsides to 
conference systems over email. As much as we might think we want topics 
to be separated you can easily end up with too much fragmentation of 
both topics and responses, navigation can be an issue, moderation is 
much more labor-intensive, and it forces everyone to use yet another 
platform which may lead to a loss of interest and participation.

If staying with an email list, AMSAT should consider a more modern email 
list system. Someone else mentioned groups.io which is one example of an 
email list system that provides some limited group features. I'm sure 
there are other such systems worth considering, and they will all 
provide the usual refinements over AMSAT-BB like text formatting 
(colour, bold, underline, bullet lists, etc.), embedded images, and 
attachments. In addition to usability features, such platforms will 
likely improve email deliverability and will not require AMSAT to 
operate their own email list services. [It's generally not a good idea 
for most small organizations to run their own email servers these days - 
too much security and technical overhead, and who needs that?]

73 Ken VA7KBM

On 7/14/2020 7:23 AM, Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Can I suggest moving AMSAT member communications from eMail to Slack?
>
> When I taught at UC Riverside last year - we used Slack to communicate with students. The tech companies I have worked with in Southern California have used Slack for many years. Recently, I noticed the Parrot Disco (RC Glider) club uses Slack to communicate with volunteers and members:
>
> https://github.com/uavpal/disco4g
>
> The benefit to Slack is having channels for each topic. In this case, discussion about Board Membership can be in it's own channel. People who are not interested are not required to read.
>
> Each technology can have it's own channel. Each project can have it's own channel. And, members can find each other easily.
> This current eMail subscription for all things creates a pain point - encouraging everyone to read everything.
> I highly recommend the Board of Directors evaluate Slack as a replacement for eMail; the corporate cost per user in low compared to value: excellent ROI. Remember, eMail subscriptions became popular in the 1980s. This protocol is entirely outdated and outmoded for conversations today. Keep in mind, the Medium is the message - another reminder AmSat has become outdated and outmoded and not keeping up with the times.
> Slack has been a positive and transforming tool employed on many projects I have worked with recently.
> Sincerely,
>
> Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> .?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club
> . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From k7trkradio at charter.net  Thu Jul 16 02:02:55 2020
From: k7trkradio at charter.net (Ted Krempa)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 19:02:55 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] best android sat program?
In-Reply-To: <CAMfCzcyg8e_6eHRFU232T6ZBzqiqEvCcLuqUr3c1_USMWZc_jg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMfCzcyg8e_6eHRFU232T6ZBzqiqEvCcLuqUr3c1_USMWZc_jg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003401d65b15$395f3530$ac1d9f90$@charter.net>

Thank you, Dave

73, Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org] On Behalf Of David
Bartholomew via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 4:49 PM
To: AMSAT BB
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] best android sat program?

I use two:

AmsatDroid Free
ISS Detector Pro

The AmsatDroidFree is free, but the satellites are listed in order by age
and it's a little cumbersome to find the one you want. You can look at only
one sat at a time and the prediction only goes out 24 hours ahead.  But,
it's free.

ISS Detector Pro. The base version only tracks the ISS, so you need to pay
a little bit for the add-ons, which include all the ham sats.  You can
customize a list of your favorite sats and see which ones are coming, in
date/time order.  Very nice app.

Dave AD7DB
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From ve3hls at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 04:34:53 2020
From: ve3hls at gmail.com (Kenneth P Alexander)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 04:34:53 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] AB2S - more candidate info
In-Reply-To: <CAGHXx8jKD5EHvr1VX6xwoD6x17J7vxFYUix4Tx=GBowAmbERVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <MN2PR14MB351747E533B9142F3F67AEBBE77F0@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAGHXx8jKD5EHvr1VX6xwoD6x17J7vxFYUix4Tx=GBowAmbERVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPOM0dniC9V=cmiHBZ2kZhepJp-uXVY7EvFwSHMrecgda2c-Wg@mail.gmail.com>

Ditto!

Ken Alexander, VE3HLS
So Phisai, Thailand
Blog:  bueng-ken.com


On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 4:08 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Very interesting background. This is exactly the kind of expertise our
> organization needs if we ever want to reach HEO/GEO, not flashy slogans and
> websites.
>
> You have my full support!
>
> 73
> Fernando, KF7R
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 8:11 PM Howie DeFelice via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > Some people have written and asked for more background information about
> > me. Thanks for asking. I added a resume page on www.ab2s.freeservers.com
> <
> > http://www.ab2s.freeservers.com> if anyone else is interested.
> >
> > 73,
> > Howie AB2S
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From rhyolite at leikhim.com  Thu Jul 16 04:36:30 2020
From: rhyolite at leikhim.com (Joe Leikhim)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 00:36:30 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Open Source Policy
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c9KAgmkUzCk44UtSKy9pceXq0q-1wWc0_YOA-mCtOa-nA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2ba40607-6073-e7f2-12a8-64e10f56cbc7@leikhim.com>
	<CADkz4c9KAgmkUzCk44UtSKy9pceXq0q-1wWc0_YOA-mCtOa-nA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e9f37711-2279-379d-88f2-257b215894c6@leikhim.com>

Your question is asking why open source will benefit AMSAT and you 
further argue that the proprietary? IP of AMSAT NA is less marketable if 
released under an open-source (to circumvent AMSATs nemesis ITAR)..

My question is simply. how marketable has it been? Is it so marketable 
that AMSAT does not have to have fundraisers to support its main 
product, launching satellites?? I say no it is not that valuable. I 
don't think anything AMSAT has designed has been sold and funds 
deposited into the coffers. At least not in my recollection and I have 
been a long term member..

Is it marketable in that a "symbiotic relationship" exists with 
aerospace companies like you imply?? I wont argue there have not been 
such agreements, but it is hardly enough to tilt greatly in favor of 
AMSAT getting an HEO ride. In the "old days" riding as ballast was 
usually the way to go. Not anymore as launches are like Uber.

I see trouble brewing at AMSAT. Not sure whose side I am on, but we have 
had a decade or more of technical stagnation. I proposed an HEO launch 
last month and was harangued by the old guard for suggesting such a thing.

I am puzzled what everyone wants to protect from change.


On 7/15/2020 11:30 PM, Joseph Armbruster wrote:
> Joe Leikhim,
>
> (note, i'm mobile, so apologies for typos)
>
> I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone, if asking someone this
> question... "How does AMSAT benefit by pursuing an open source
> policy?"... really makes you feel like i'm belittling a proposition,
> please re-read what I wrote.  The 'belittling' portion was your
> original thought.  I was just pointing out how the GPL works...
> belittle that.
>
> "You would think the AMSAT bank accounts would be overflowing"
>
> Well, I honestly don't know... I'll return the question because I, and
> I assume many others reading have not seen financials, sohow are AMSAT
> bank accounts doing?  From all accounts from the BB, I have no
> evidence indicating the numbers are bad, except for hear-say...
> Numbers please...?
>
> "and invitations for HEO launches would be so many we would be turning
> them down?"
>
> Who is turning HEO launches down, and more specifically why?  Please clarify.
>
> Joseph Armbruster
> KJ4JIO
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 9:50 PM Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> /Joseph; you wax on about intellectual property and symbiotic
>> relationships etc, and then ask /
>> //"How does AMSAT benefit b//y pursuing an open source policy?" May I
>> ask, how in the past 10 years has AMSAT benefited by running the
>> proprietary system they are running now? You would think the AMSAT bank
>> accounts would be overflowing and invitations for HEO launches would be
>> so many we would be turning them down? Please answer this before
>> belittling the proposition. / On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 7:21 AM Joseph
>> Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com
>> <https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb>> wrote: />>//>>/You did not really answer the first question: "How does AMSAT benefit />>/by pursuing an open source policy?" />
>>
>> --
>> Joe Leikhim
>>
>>
>> Leikhim and Associates
>>
>> Communications Consultants
>>
>> Oviedo, Florida
>>
>> JLeikhim at Leikhim.com
>>
>> 407-982-0446
>>
>> WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>

-- 
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

JLeikhim at Leikhim.com

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM


From bruce at perens.com  Thu Jul 16 05:13:28 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 22:13:28 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AB2S - more candidate info
In-Reply-To: <CAPOM0dniC9V=cmiHBZ2kZhepJp-uXVY7EvFwSHMrecgda2c-Wg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <MN2PR14MB351747E533B9142F3F67AEBBE77F0@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAGHXx8jKD5EHvr1VX6xwoD6x17J7vxFYUix4Tx=GBowAmbERVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPOM0dniC9V=cmiHBZ2kZhepJp-uXVY7EvFwSHMrecgda2c-Wg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOv7VmdOZB9iVunxt=f19GYX4VQ5oeBzm7P1hEx4ZztuBg@mail.gmail.com>

Another candidate with impressive credentials.

Bob McGwier N4HY

Bob is co-founder and advisor of HawkEye 360, a data analytics and
reporting service based on a small constellation of satellites. Bob was
previously Chief Scientist of the Ted and Karyn Hume Center for National
Security and Technology, and still holds Research Professor appointments
(by courtesy) in the Bradley Department of Electrical and Computer
Engineering and Crofton Department of Aerospace and Ocean Engineering at
Virginia Tech, and an Affiliate Research Professor appointment in the
Mathematics department.

Before joining Virginia Tech, Bob spent 26 years as a member of the
technical staff at the Institute for Defense Analyses' Center for
Communications Research in Princeton, NJ, where he worked on advanced
research topics in mathematics and communications supporting the federal
government. He received his Ph.D. in applied mathematics from Brown
University in 1988. His work on behalf of the federal government has earned
him many awards, including one of the intelligence community's highest
honors in 2002.

Bob has previously served as AMSAT's VP of engineering and on its board of
directors. He has participated in many of AMSAT's most important
developments.

From wa4sca at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 11:36:33 2020
From: wa4sca at gmail.com (Alan)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 06:36:33 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AB2S - more candidate info
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOv7VmdOZB9iVunxt=f19GYX4VQ5oeBzm7P1hEx4ZztuBg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <MN2PR14MB351747E533B9142F3F67AEBBE77F0@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>	<CAGHXx8jKD5EHvr1VX6xwoD6x17J7vxFYUix4Tx=GBowAmbERVw@mail.gmail.com>	<CAPOM0dniC9V=cmiHBZ2kZhepJp-uXVY7EvFwSHMrecgda2c-Wg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOv7VmdOZB9iVunxt=f19GYX4VQ5oeBzm7P1hEx4ZztuBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001a01d65b65$5b9452c0$12bcf840$@gmail.com>

Bob has other Out of This World interests as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1hIV0ql_Vg

73,

Alan
WA4SCA


<-----Original Message-----
<From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org] On Behalf Of Bruce
Perens via
<AMSAT-BB
<Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 12:13 AM
<To: Kenneth P Alexander <ve3hls at gmail.com>
<Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
<Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AB2S - more candidate info
<
<Another candidate with impressive credentials.
<
<Bob McGwier N4HY
<
<Bob is co-founder and advisor of HawkEye 360, a data analytics and
<reporting service based on a small constellation of satellites. Bob was
<previously Chief Scientist of the Ted and Karyn Hume Center for National
<Security and Technology, and still holds Research Professor appointments
<(by courtesy) in the Bradley Department of Electrical and Computer
<Engineering and Crofton Department of Aerospace and Ocean Engineering at
<Virginia Tech, and an Affiliate Research Professor appointment in the
<Mathematics department.
<
<Before joining Virginia Tech, Bob spent 26 years as a member of the
<technical staff at the Institute for Defense Analyses' Center for
<Communications Research in Princeton, NJ, where he worked on advanced
<research topics in mathematics and communications supporting the federal
<government. He received his Ph.D. in applied mathematics from Brown
<University in 1988. His work on behalf of the federal government has earned
<him many awards, including one of the intelligence community's highest
<honors in 2002.
<
<Bob has previously served as AMSAT's VP of engineering and on its board of
<directors. He has participated in many of AMSAT's most important
<developments.
<_______________________________________________
<Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
<to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
<are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
<Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
<Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From marklhammond at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 12:23:28 2020
From: marklhammond at gmail.com (Mark L. Hammond)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 08:23:28 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Candidacy statement - Mark Hammond N8MH
Message-ID: <CAPRXzyr6n+p6DLeQ1Le1r07W+z9Y1vM=WL1yLL5brDQCCwj7YQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello AMSAT members (and fellow satellite enthusiasts),



I am honored to have been nominated again and subsequently declare my
candidacy for the AMSAT Board of Directors.  To succeed and keep the
organization moving forward, AMSAT needs a combination of people with
technical and non-profit managerial experiences.



I encourage you to read a biography about me here:

https://www.upwardtoheo.com/biographies/dr-mark-hammond-n8mh



and some additional personal information here:

https://www.upwardtoheo.com/updates/so-who-is-mark-n8mh



Hopefully, you will find I bring a blend of enthusiasm for satellite
operations, good technical abilities as a satellite hobbyist and command
station, as well as demonstrated effectiveness as a non-profit, higher
education administrator that justifies your vote.



Also please support my colleagues Paul N8HM and Bruce KK5DO, who share the
same vision for keeping amateur radio in space as we move upward to HEO!  You
can read about them here: https://www.upwardtoheo.com/



73,
Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
AMSAT Director and Command Station

From robert.machale at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 16 12:34:37 2020
From: robert.machale at yahoo.com (Robert MacHale)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 12:34:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] AmSat Ombudsman
In-Reply-To: <C607803B-B3B5-4A79-B5A0-07229862539D@comcast.net>
References: <351DD49D-DF83-4E60-ABE5-0F8914F1666A@mac.com>
	<16976F65-3803-4B8C-9A6E-5FF6EC1DBE92@gmail.com>
	<C607803B-B3B5-4A79-B5A0-07229862539D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1043767607.2567193.1594902877592@mail.yahoo.com>

May I suggest AMSAT might need an Ombudsman.

The reason I am suggesting - in October 2018 - the same year Patrick Stoddard?mocked, harassed, or bullied Gordo and Clint - I also had a negative experienced with Patrick that is still unresolved.

One evening during an ISS pass, my home brew iGate delivered a few rogue APRSAT packets via APRS-IS to ARISS.NET over a 20 minute period. I turned off the iGate as soon as I noticed the problem. Later, I found and fixed the bug in my Arduino software.
Google search 'patrick twitter KE6BLR' to see his Twitter complaint against me.
For some reason, as a result of Patrick's complaints to Steve Demse I was banned from ARISS.NET - for life. Imagine that. Banned for life for over an experimental radio project.

When I worked on an ICANN project I learned they had an Ombudsman. Obviously the stakes are much higher when managing TLDs. But, the pattern can apply here.
Perhaps AMSAT needs an Ombudsman to mange the bully culture, bad faith, and intrigue that has been tolerated in the past - it's not okay - it's not acceptable - it's not good.
BTW, I like Gordo. I got to hang out with him and his wife at a BBQ following an ARISS event for Mendez Fundamental School in Santa Ana, California - a low income district.
Sincerely,

Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration

Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff! 


    On Wednesday, July 15, 2020, 09:18:50 AM PDT, Greg via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 LID/LCS

Wow, that is so chidish it borders on issues with emotional IQ ?glad you brought that to my attention because it will influence my vote..

N3MVF



On Jul 15, 2020, at 11:17 AM, Mike Diehl via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

Clint, 

No need to send screenshots, everyone can just use the Wayback Machine here http://web.archive.org/web/20181227011914/http://work-sats.com/

73,
Mike Diehl
W8LID/VE6LID

> On Jul 15, 2020, at 10:10, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?Patrick and Jeff created a Web site In 2018 using my Web site?s name - but added the plural of my work-sat.com - they used ?Sats.?
> 
> The site was solely created to demean myself and Gordon West. The posts were obscene, vile, insulting, and vicious in their attacks. Most of their posts are too objectionable to post on a public forum like this: posts like two rats fornicating and writing that my satellite inquiry phone number of 800-999-SATS could also use the alpha characters, 800-999-RATS.
> 
> If anyone is interested in reading screenshots of their work, I will privately email them to you. 
> 
> Stoddard and Johns will not be receiving my vote. 
> 
> Clint Bradford K6LCS
> 909-999-SATS
> 
> PS They let the GoDaddy domain name expire after a year. I registered it immediately - and it is now redirected to my site.
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From howied231 at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 16 13:35:24 2020
From: howied231 at hotmail.com (Howie DeFelice)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 13:35:24 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] AB2S - more candidate info
In-Reply-To: <CAPOM0dniC9V=cmiHBZ2kZhepJp-uXVY7EvFwSHMrecgda2c-Wg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <MN2PR14MB351747E533B9142F3F67AEBBE77F0@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAGHXx8jKD5EHvr1VX6xwoD6x17J7vxFYUix4Tx=GBowAmbERVw@mail.gmail.com>,
	<CAPOM0dniC9V=cmiHBZ2kZhepJp-uXVY7EvFwSHMrecgda2c-Wg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR14MB35175C4521996AE88D26D0C8E77F0@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

Thank-you for your support gentlemen. I always felt there was a much stronger desire to get to HEO than was being communicated. This is going to be very difficult and is going to require compromise and teamwork but is not impossible. There is so much great talent outside the U.S. that is not being utilized. There are ways to work internationally so everyone can be part of the fun. I look forward to the challenge and hope you do too.

73,
Howie AB2S

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Kenneth P Alexander<mailto:ve3hls at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 12:35 AM
To: Fernando Ramirez<mailto:framirezferrer at gmail.com>
Cc: Howie DeFelice<mailto:howied231 at hotmail.com>; amsat-bb at amsat.org<mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AB2S - more candidate info

Ditto!

Ken Alexander, VE3HLS
So Phisai, Thailand
Blog:  bueng-ken.com<https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbueng-ken.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ccc137c9135d14623c44e08d829419c78%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637304709051162890&sdata=gtrwVuqtOWMJKlgeojZjGLMisxuI9F%2B1vouYJEzSRpo%3D&reserved=0>


On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 4:08 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org<mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>> wrote:
Very interesting background. This is exactly the kind of expertise our
organization needs if we ever want to reach HEO/GEO, not flashy slogans and
websites.

You have my full support!

73
Fernando, KF7R

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 8:11 PM Howie DeFelice via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org<mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>> wrote:

> Some people have written and asked for more background information about
> me. Thanks for asking. I added a resume page on www.ab2s.freeservers.com<https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ab2s.freeservers.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ccc137c9135d14623c44e08d829419c78%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637304709051162890&sdata=nD%2FvNUf9Qt%2FV5JJr%2FuCRRPKftUQA5XUDCXe3DX99GhM%3D&reserved=0><
> http://www.ab2s.freeservers.com<https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ab2s.freeservers.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ccc137c9135d14623c44e08d829419c78%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637304709051172883&sdata=0fvJDS7bphWW7hJhGF8XxoO5HqAEL4nevZY7%2BEVnqRs%3D&reserved=0>> if anyone else is interested.
>
> 73,
> Howie AB2S
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org<mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb<https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amsat.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Famsat-bb&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ccc137c9135d14623c44e08d829419c78%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637304709051172883&sdata=qIUdJoy7XwxQvcZqzhlMawMIr9XHwkwun%2BwSEq3xVaI%3D&reserved=0>
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org<mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb<https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amsat.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Famsat-bb&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ccc137c9135d14623c44e08d829419c78%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637304709051182878&sdata=DJ9hUqhqn4QG90FnQbhZG6Qg6WSdXB2D5l3%2F6QqOTVo%3D&reserved=0>


From hbasri.schiers6 at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 13:58:21 2020
From: hbasri.schiers6 at gmail.com (Hasan N0AN)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 08:58:21 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] best android sat program?
In-Reply-To: <000001d65afd$5827d700$08778500$@charter.net>
References: <000001d65afd$5827d700$08778500$@charter.net>
Message-ID: <CAM4UQf1U4cuHTg+G+hXeiupHyXKxcSrXR_=hS-LgSK52cq-eBQ@mail.gmail.com>

ISS Detector is Fantastic.
73, N0AN
Hasan


On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 8:27 PM Ted Krempa via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> .just inherited wife's old android tablet..(Asus ZenPad)
>
>
>
> What is the recommended sat tracking program for an android tablet?
>
>
>
> 73, Ted
>
> K7TRK
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From propgrinder at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 14:12:48 2020
From: propgrinder at gmail.com (Bob Hammond)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 07:12:48 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
Message-ID: <CAKoB7OqObY4zvSpXzoFyJuh00q20B3CdaNYfap06GRqJ4SM9qw@mail.gmail.com>

Recently, there was mention of AMSAT no longer being welcome in the ISS
program.  Is that true?  Or do I need more coffee this morning?

Bob W7OTJ

From peter at magicbug.co.uk  Thu Jul 16 14:15:24 2020
From: peter at magicbug.co.uk (Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL))
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 15:15:24 +0100
Subject: [amsat-bb] best android sat program?
In-Reply-To: <000001d65afd$5827d700$08778500$@charter.net>
References: <000001d65afd$5827d700$08778500$@charter.net>
Message-ID: <CAFvUair_xRosFSuXB_C6FMPrBUSvk+rwqduS+-2N43PoChYU8g@mail.gmail.com>

ISS Detector Pro & Heavens Above Pro are my go to apps on Android!

Pete, 2M0SQL

On Thu, 16 Jul 2020, 00:25 Ted Krempa via AMSAT-BB, <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> .just inherited wife's old android tablet..(Asus ZenPad)
>
>
>
> What is the recommended sat tracking program for an android tablet?
>
>
>
> 73, Ted
>
> K7TRK
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From n8hm at arrl.net  Thu Jul 16 14:22:08 2020
From: n8hm at arrl.net (Paul Stoetzer)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 10:22:08 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
In-Reply-To: <CAKoB7OqObY4zvSpXzoFyJuh00q20B3CdaNYfap06GRqJ4SM9qw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7OqObY4zvSpXzoFyJuh00q20B3CdaNYfap06GRqJ4SM9qw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABzOSOqZvWsXrycPYa72YVEv+1yxMRb91VVdEzgv3oqoac1dPQ@mail.gmail.com>

That is not true. While ARISS-USA has been established as a separate
organization, AMSAT is still a full partner in ARISS with both US and
Canadian delegates to ARISS International. We are 100% committed to
continuing our involvement in amateur radio on human spaceflight
missions, including ARISS and as part of the Amateur Radio Exploration
(AREx) group developing amateur communications systems for the Lunar
Gateway.

73,

Paul Stoetzer, N8HM
Executive Vice President
AMSAT

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 10:13 AM Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Recently, there was mention of AMSAT no longer being welcome in the ISS
> program.  Is that true?  Or do I need more coffee this morning?
>
> Bob W7OTJ
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From ke4al at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 16 14:26:02 2020
From: ke4al at yahoo.com (Robert Bankston)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 14:26:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
In-Reply-To: <CAKoB7OqObY4zvSpXzoFyJuh00q20B3CdaNYfap06GRqJ4SM9qw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7OqObY4zvSpXzoFyJuh00q20B3CdaNYfap06GRqJ4SM9qw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <401842134.2616408.1594909562805@mail.yahoo.com>

I have heard that rumor, but it is Fake News. ?AMSAT still enjoys a strong relationship with ARISS. ?ARISS-USA was formed as a separate nonprofit to provide them with more fundraising and grant opportunities.

Frank Bauer is still AMSAT's VP of Human Space Flight.

Robert, KE4AL





On Thursday, July 16, 2020, 09:14:28 AM CDT, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 





Recently, there was mention of AMSAT no longer being welcome in the ISS
program.? Is that true?? Or do I need more coffee this morning?

Bob W7OTJ
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From ariss.w8aas at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 14:33:09 2020
From: ariss.w8aas at gmail.com (Dave Taylor)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 10:33:09 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
In-Reply-To: <CAKoB7OqObY4zvSpXzoFyJuh00q20B3CdaNYfap06GRqJ4SM9qw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7OqObY4zvSpXzoFyJuh00q20B3CdaNYfap06GRqJ4SM9qw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65737213-A356-4C02-BC14-2C213628B175@gmail.com>

That is not true.  AMSAT remains a sponsoring partner of the international ARISS working group.  

What you might have seen is the announcement that the team of ARISS volunteers in the US has incorporated as a non-profit corporation (ARISS-USA).  This was done to allow ARISS to sign agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS name.  In the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS.  The functional change is that ARISS is assuming  for itself some of the tasks that AMSAT has donated in the past.  Our working relationship is not changing.

Dave Taylor, W8AAS
AMSAT-NA Delegte to ARISS-International

> On Jul 16, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> Recently, there was mention of AMSAT no longer being welcome in the ISS
> program.  Is that true?  Or do I need more coffee this morning?
> 
> Bob W7OTJ
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net  Thu Jul 16 15:06:38 2020
From: amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net (Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK))
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 15:06:38 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] AmSat Ombudsman
In-Reply-To: <1043767607.2567193.1594902877592@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <351DD49D-DF83-4E60-ABE5-0F8914F1666A@mac.com>
	<16976F65-3803-4B8C-9A6E-5FF6EC1DBE92@gmail.com>
	<C607803B-B3B5-4A79-B5A0-07229862539D@comcast.net>
	<1043767607.2567193.1594902877592@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAN6TEUfDXZEbXDYic4e4SQpzh68vct61tDf01r=iCr8vCkSZ6g@mail.gmail.com>

Robert,

The first part of your e-mail appears to refer to an allegation Clint
Bradford K6LCS recently posted on this mailing list, and on other
mailing lists and forums. As I said on the QRZ satellite forum
yesterday, Clint's allegations about me and that web site are false.

In the few times I have publicly criticized Clint in recent years, I
did so with my name attached to what I posted, as I did on the eHam
satellite forum in 2016:

https://www.eham.net/community/smf/index.php?topic=108627.15

This exchange led to a letter sent by Clint to AMSAT and me, which
threatened AMSAT with legal action. I am not aware of AMSAT taking
actions in response to his letter, and - based on AMSAT's 2016 IRS tax
return - AMSAT did not spend any monies on legal expenses that year.

As for the other part of your e-mail, the "some reason" packets from
your APRS Internet gateway stations no longer appear on the ariss.net
web site, you and I had a conversation about that. One of your APRS
gateways was rewriting packets received from the ISS packet digipeater,
adding a tagline promoting the web site for your Space Communicator
Club. The packets containing that tagline were injected into the APRS
Internet System (APRS-IS), violating policies of that system. Those
packets also cluttered the listing of packets recently heard from the
ISS on the ariss.net web site. You told me at that time you were
testing a function on one of your gateways to put that tagline onto
packets, something that had been happening over the period of a few
days. This included the 20-minute period you mentioned, when one of
your gateways continued to send packets to the APRS-IS system after
the ISS had moved away from North America.

As you stated, I contacted Steve Dimse K4HG. Steve owns the ariss.net
and findu.com web sites, useful for displaying information on APRS
packets. I asked Steve about the packets from your gateway that were
showing up on his ariss.net web site. Steve reminded me of the APRS-IS
policies regarding packets being submitted to that system. Other than
appending the call sign of the gateway that received the packet to the
packet path, no other modifications are supposed to be made to packets
sent to the APRS-IS system. I mentioned that to you in a separate
e-mail, even citing the policies as published on the aprs-is.net web
site. I am aware that you and Steve also had an e-mail discussion about
this around the same time.

After those e-mail exchanges, I heard from you that packets from your
gateways would not appear on the ariss.net site. This appears to be an
issue between you and Steve, as Steve maintains the ariss.net web site.
I have no control over that, and - as far as I know - neither does
AMSAT. Have you reached out to Steve recently?

73.





Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK

From propgrinder at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 15:20:50 2020
From: propgrinder at gmail.com (Bob Hammond)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 08:20:50 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
In-Reply-To: <65737213-A356-4C02-BC14-2C213628B175@gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7OqObY4zvSpXzoFyJuh00q20B3CdaNYfap06GRqJ4SM9qw@mail.gmail.com>
	<65737213-A356-4C02-BC14-2C213628B175@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKoB7OpAg_sQwLwy0U0-nt6UQ+28ToR0qod2+_CtKKM2hZgOMQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks all for the clarification.

Bob W7OTJ

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 7:33 AM Dave Taylor <ariss.w8aas at gmail.com> wrote:

> That is not true.  AMSAT remains a sponsoring partner of the international
> ARISS working group.
>
> What you might have seen is the announcement that the team of ARISS
> volunteers in the US has incorporated as a non-profit corporation
> (ARISS-USA).  This was done to allow ARISS to sign agreements (with NASA
> and others) and seek grants in the ARISS name.  In the past, AMSAT has done
> that in the US on behalf of ARISS.  The functional change is that ARISS is
> assuming  for itself some of the tasks that AMSAT has donated in the past.
> Our working relationship is not changing.
>
> *Dave Taylor, W8AAS*
>
> AMSAT-NA Delegte to ARISS-International
>
>
> On Jul 16, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
> Recently, there was mention of AMSAT no longer being welcome in the ISS
> program.  Is that true?  Or do I need more coffee this morning?
>
> Bob W7OTJ
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>

From ka3hdo at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 16:02:24 2020
From: ka3hdo at gmail.com (ka3hdo at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 12:02:24 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
In-Reply-To: <65737213-A356-4C02-BC14-2C213628B175@gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7OqObY4zvSpXzoFyJuh00q20B3CdaNYfap06GRqJ4SM9qw@mail.gmail.com>
	<65737213-A356-4C02-BC14-2C213628B175@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002801d65b8a$807257c0$81570740$@gmail.com>

Agree with all, this is NOT true.  

Please read the press release on the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web
site www.ariss.org (4th article down).  As Dave and others eloquently state,
ARISS-USA has a good relationship with AMSAT.  In fact, the AMSAT-NA
President, several AMSAT-NA senior officers and one of the AMSAT-NA BoD
members attended today's Lunar Gateway (AREx, or Amateur Radio Exploration)
meeting.  

I get this as a digest, so sorry about the delay.

73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
ARISS-USA Executive Director
AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs


-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Taylor <ariss.w8aas at gmail.com> 
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 10:33 AM
To: Bob Hammond <propgrinder at gmail.com>
Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?

That is not true.  AMSAT remains a sponsoring partner of the international
ARISS working group.  

What you might have seen is the announcement that the team of ARISS
volunteers in the US has incorporated as a non-profit corporation
(ARISS-USA).  This was done to allow ARISS to sign agreements (with NASA and
others) and seek grants in the ARISS name.  In the past, AMSAT has done that
in the US on behalf of ARISS.  The functional change is that ARISS is
assuming  for itself some of the tasks that AMSAT has donated in the past.
Our working relationship is not changing.

Dave Taylor, W8AAS
AMSAT-NA Delegte to ARISS-International

> On Jul 16, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> Recently, there was mention of AMSAT no longer being welcome in the 
> ISS program.  Is that true?  Or do I need more coffee this morning?
> 
> Bob W7OTJ
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available 
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. 
> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb




From robert.machale at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 16 16:10:01 2020
From: robert.machale at yahoo.com (Robert MacHale)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 16:10:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] AmSat Ombudsman
In-Reply-To: <CAN6TEUfDXZEbXDYic4e4SQpzh68vct61tDf01r=iCr8vCkSZ6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <351DD49D-DF83-4E60-ABE5-0F8914F1666A@mac.com>
	<16976F65-3803-4B8C-9A6E-5FF6EC1DBE92@gmail.com>
	<C607803B-B3B5-4A79-B5A0-07229862539D@comcast.net>
	<1043767607.2567193.1594902877592@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAN6TEUfDXZEbXDYic4e4SQpzh68vct61tDf01r=iCr8vCkSZ6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <444869862.2694527.1594915801928@mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks for you response.
What I hear you saying is that you had no part in disparaging Gordo. And, the assertions from Clint are not true. Is that what you are saying?
I reached out to Steve Demse about a year after the event. He seems to believe I have earned a lifetime ban from his website. His initial comments gave me the impression that the sky was falling if he did not respond to your criticism of me and the iGate.
Let's itemize all the complaints:
1) Rogue Packets2) SpaceCommunicator.club tag3) Packet Counter tag
Which one of these complaints justifies a ban? Perhaps a temporary ban while the issues are communicated. Perhaps even a warning.?
Keep in mind - you and I had not met - your eMail address was basically junk mail to me. It was missed by me - my bad - until later review after the fact. I did not notice them for weeks.

On the other hand Steve Demse and I had been in constant contact for weeks on other topics during this season. Yet - he did not ever reach out to me about these complaints. He claims he did - he did not - and I double searched my Yahoo mail for any trace of eMail from him on this topic. He claims it was sent (apparently to appease you) but it was not.
There are only 2 actors in this equation - that I am aware of - you and Steve.

There is really no reasonable explanation for a ban; much less a ban worthy of a year. The site belongs to Steve and he has no oversight or appeal. He can do whatever he wants.
If you are agreeable - perhaps you can reach out to Steve, as an AmSat official, and suggest that a one year ban is more than sufficient - has passed - and should be removed. That seems like a reasonable good faith gesture.
As an AmSat official - consider the context - a new community member working on an experiment - no mentoring available - no guidance available - just criticism and banishment. There needs to be a better new member funnel that makes people aware of the community entry points. Less isolation and more community.

Can you explain the story behind Joe Spier, your complaint about someone, your feelings that not enough was done. Did you push Joe out?
73
Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration

Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff! 

    On Thursday, July 16, 2020, 08:06:50 AM PDT, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net> wrote:  
 
 Robert, 

The first part of your e-mail appears to refer to an allegation Clint 
Bradford K6LCS recently posted on this mailing list, and on other 
mailing lists and forums. As I said on the QRZ satellite forum 
yesterday, Clint's allegations about me and that web site are false.

In the few times I have publicly criticized Clint in recent years, I 
did so with my name attached to what I posted, as I did on the eHam 
satellite forum in 2016:

https://www.eham.net/community/smf/index.php?topic=108627.15

This exchange led to a letter sent by Clint to AMSAT and me, which 
threatened AMSAT with legal action. I am not aware of AMSAT taking 
actions in response to his letter, and - based on AMSAT's 2016 IRS tax
return - AMSAT did not spend any monies on legal expenses that year. 

As for the other part of your e-mail, the "some reason" packets from
your APRS Internet gateway stations no longer appear on the ariss.net 
web site, you and I had a conversation about that. One of your APRS 
gateways was rewriting packets received from the ISS packet digipeater,
adding a tagline promoting the web site for your Space Communicator 
Club. The packets containing that tagline were injected into the APRS 
Internet System (APRS-IS), violating policies of that system. Those 
packets also cluttered the listing of packets recently heard from the 
ISS on the ariss.net web site. You told me at that time you were 
testing a function on one of your gateways to put that tagline onto 
packets, something that had been happening over the period of a few 
days. This included the 20-minute period you mentioned, when one of
your gateways continued to send packets to the APRS-IS system after
the ISS had moved away from North America. 

As you stated, I contacted Steve Dimse K4HG. Steve owns the ariss.net 
and findu.com web sites, useful for displaying information on APRS 
packets. I asked Steve about the packets from your gateway that were 
showing up on his ariss.net web site. Steve reminded me of the APRS-IS
policies regarding packets being submitted to that system. Other than 
appending the call sign of the gateway that received the packet to the
packet path, no other modifications are supposed to be made to packets
sent to the APRS-IS system. I mentioned that to you in a separate 
e-mail, even citing the policies as published on the aprs-is.net web 
site. I am aware that you and Steve also had an e-mail discussion about
this around the same time. ?

After those e-mail exchanges, I heard from you that packets from your
gateways would not appear on the ariss.net site. This appears to be an
issue between you and Steve, as Steve maintains the ariss.net web site.
I have no control over that, and - as far as I know - neither does 
AMSAT. Have you reached out to Steve recently? 

73.





Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK 
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK


  

From rwmcgwier at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 16:32:22 2020
From: rwmcgwier at gmail.com (Robert McGwier)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 11:32:22 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Candidate Statement for the board elections for AMSAT by
	me
Message-ID: <CA+K5gzePE=_Eix718cz1rY6bAscOnBKVft+FPTNEVcg=kwKjtg@mail.gmail.com>

Here is my candidate statement for the board elections.  My
qualifications statement follows further editing.  It is complex and
detailed so I am taking my time with it.

I hope you will support me for the board. I intend to devote my time and
attention during my newly begun retirement helping AMSAT specifically and
amateur radio in general.

FYI, I am now on the grants committee of ARDC and I hope to help all of
amateur radio while ARDC administers and grants these dollars to make
amateur radio and telecommunications engineering and science better.

The following is controversial, but it is clear.  I do not like what I am
seeing or hearing in and around AMSAT.  I will work hard for the members to
try and get "stuff" done.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DWwg7Y8lZ578MHn4Z31zE3Sem_38mvrk/view?usp=sharing

-- 
Bob McGwier
Founder, Federated Wireless, Inc
Founder and Technical Advisor, HawkEye 360, Inc
Adjunct Professor Virginia Tech
Former Chief Scientist:  The Ted and Karyn Hume Center for National
Security and Technology
Senior Member IEEE, Facebook: N4HYBob, ARS: N4HY

From propgrinder at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 16:52:48 2020
From: propgrinder at gmail.com (Bob Hammond)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 09:52:48 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
In-Reply-To: <002801d65b8a$807257c0$81570740$@gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7OqObY4zvSpXzoFyJuh00q20B3CdaNYfap06GRqJ4SM9qw@mail.gmail.com>
	<65737213-A356-4C02-BC14-2C213628B175@gmail.com>
	<002801d65b8a$807257c0$81570740$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKoB7Oq3AV68o+-e1HG6LFg9gyZEg4hYis9odnYN43A+nYyZhw@mail.gmail.com>

My confusion remains.  In the candidate statement just sent by Robert
McGwier, he says "AMSAT already has a damaged reputation with the
separation of ARISS".

I'd like clarification, please.

Bob W7OTJ

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 9:02 AM <ka3hdo at gmail.com> wrote:

> Agree with all, this is NOT true.
>
> Please read the press release on the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web
> site www.ariss.org (4th article down).  As Dave and others eloquently
> state,
> ARISS-USA has a good relationship with AMSAT.  In fact, the AMSAT-NA
> President, several AMSAT-NA senior officers and one of the AMSAT-NA BoD
> members attended today's Lunar Gateway (AREx, or Amateur Radio Exploration)
> meeting.
>
> I get this as a digest, so sorry about the delay.
>
> 73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
> ARISS-USA Executive Director
> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Taylor <ariss.w8aas at gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 10:33 AM
> To: Bob Hammond <propgrinder at gmail.com>
> Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
>
> That is not true.  AMSAT remains a sponsoring partner of the international
> ARISS working group.
>
> What you might have seen is the announcement that the team of ARISS
> volunteers in the US has incorporated as a non-profit corporation
> (ARISS-USA).  This was done to allow ARISS to sign agreements (with NASA
> and
> others) and seek grants in the ARISS name.  In the past, AMSAT has done
> that
> in the US on behalf of ARISS.  The functional change is that ARISS is
> assuming  for itself some of the tasks that AMSAT has donated in the past.
> Our working relationship is not changing.
>
> Dave Taylor, W8AAS
> AMSAT-NA Delegte to ARISS-International
>
> > On Jul 16, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > Recently, there was mention of AMSAT no longer being welcome in the
> > ISS program.  Is that true?  Or do I need more coffee this morning?
> >
> > Bob W7OTJ
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
> official views of AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>
>

From jfitzgerald at alum.wpi.edu  Thu Jul 16 16:54:24 2020
From: jfitzgerald at alum.wpi.edu (Joseph B. Fitzgerald)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 16:54:24 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR04MB37425EA715C9F36BA52C2BA8DC7F0@MWHPR04MB3742.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>,
	<MWHPR04MB37425EA715C9F36BA52C2BA8DC7F0@MWHPR04MB3742.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <DM5PR22MB08253AB6D0801ECBC044BB37877F0@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>


Ken,  VA7KBM wrote:
>... AMSAT should consider a more modern email list system. 

Presently the IT crew is working on migrating our servers off the existing Linux distribution which goes end-of-life in November to Ubuntu 20.04 LTS.    This will result in a change to GNU Mailman 3.0 ... more modern but not exactly a quantum leap.   Now would be a great time for a fleshed out proposal for something else since it would be hard on the users to switch again in another year or whatever.   I have looked at groups.io a little bit in the past, and it seems to be run by "good guys".    Don't wait for "AMSAT" to consider alternatives, you guys are AMSAT, so put together a good proposal and convince people.

> ... It's generally not a good idea
>for most small organizations to run their own email servers these days -
>too much security and technical overhead, and who needs that?

I surely don't need that and I am one of they guys that directly deals with that overhead.   That being said, an issue that trips me up every time I look at having someone else run things is the e-mail alias service we provide to anyone with a callsign.    We have somewhere around 16,000 users of that service and I know of no economically viable way to do that except on our own servers.

de KM1P Joe

From bruce at perens.com  Thu Jul 16 17:01:48 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 10:01:48 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
In-Reply-To: <CAKoB7Oq3AV68o+-e1HG6LFg9gyZEg4hYis9odnYN43A+nYyZhw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7OqObY4zvSpXzoFyJuh00q20B3CdaNYfap06GRqJ4SM9qw@mail.gmail.com>
	<65737213-A356-4C02-BC14-2C213628B175@gmail.com>
	<002801d65b8a$807257c0$81570740$@gmail.com>
	<CAKoB7Oq3AV68o+-e1HG6LFg9gyZEg4hYis9odnYN43A+nYyZhw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOtYUrjq8yuo_YG7LCFODjYTa4p2OQLf8mWHvvemQj4itg@mail.gmail.com>

Ask Frank Bauer.

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 9:56 AM Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> My confusion remains.  In the candidate statement just sent by Robert
> McGwier, he says "AMSAT already has a damaged reputation with the
> separation of ARISS".
>
> I'd like clarification, please.
>
> Bob W7OTJ
>
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 9:02 AM <ka3hdo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Agree with all, this is NOT true.
> >
> > Please read the press release on the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS
> web
> > site www.ariss.org (4th article down).  As Dave and others eloquently
> > state,
> > ARISS-USA has a good relationship with AMSAT.  In fact, the AMSAT-NA
> > President, several AMSAT-NA senior officers and one of the AMSAT-NA BoD
> > members attended today's Lunar Gateway (AREx, or Amateur Radio
> Exploration)
> > meeting.
> >
> > I get this as a digest, so sorry about the delay.
> >
> > 73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
> > ARISS-USA Executive Director
> > AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dave Taylor <ariss.w8aas at gmail.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 10:33 AM
> > To: Bob Hammond <propgrinder at gmail.com>
> > Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
> >
> > That is not true.  AMSAT remains a sponsoring partner of the
> international
> > ARISS working group.
> >
> > What you might have seen is the announcement that the team of ARISS
> > volunteers in the US has incorporated as a non-profit corporation
> > (ARISS-USA).  This was done to allow ARISS to sign agreements (with NASA
> > and
> > others) and seek grants in the ARISS name.  In the past, AMSAT has done
> > that
> > in the US on behalf of ARISS.  The functional change is that ARISS is
> > assuming  for itself some of the tasks that AMSAT has donated in the
> past.
> > Our working relationship is not changing.
> >
> > Dave Taylor, W8AAS
> > AMSAT-NA Delegte to ARISS-International
> >
> > > On Jul 16, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB
> > <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Recently, there was mention of AMSAT no longer being welcome in the
> > > ISS program.  Is that true?  Or do I need more coffee this morning?
> > >
> > > Bob W7OTJ
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > > Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect
> the
> > official views of AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From framirezferrer at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 17:34:16 2020
From: framirezferrer at gmail.com (Fernando Ramirez)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 10:34:16 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
In-Reply-To: <002801d65b8a$807257c0$81570740$@gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7OqObY4zvSpXzoFyJuh00q20B3CdaNYfap06GRqJ4SM9qw@mail.gmail.com>
	<65737213-A356-4C02-BC14-2C213628B175@gmail.com>
	<002801d65b8a$807257c0$81570740$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGHXx8hD5p36r3vu9zdCw=8J+LLsxGvPK-akO5H324tBFS82sQ@mail.gmail.com>

So, who is going to appoint representatives to ARISS? ARISS-NA or AMSAT?

KF7R

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 9:12 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Agree with all, this is NOT true.
>
> Please read the press release on the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web
> site www.ariss.org (4th article down).  As Dave and others eloquently
> state,
> ARISS-USA has a good relationship with AMSAT.  In fact, the AMSAT-NA
> President, several AMSAT-NA senior officers and one of the AMSAT-NA BoD
> members attended today's Lunar Gateway (AREx, or Amateur Radio Exploration)
> meeting.
>
> I get this as a digest, so sorry about the delay.
>
> 73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
> ARISS-USA Executive Director
> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Taylor <ariss.w8aas at gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 10:33 AM
> To: Bob Hammond <propgrinder at gmail.com>
> Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
>
> That is not true.  AMSAT remains a sponsoring partner of the international
> ARISS working group.
>
> What you might have seen is the announcement that the team of ARISS
> volunteers in the US has incorporated as a non-profit corporation
> (ARISS-USA).  This was done to allow ARISS to sign agreements (with NASA
> and
> others) and seek grants in the ARISS name.  In the past, AMSAT has done
> that
> in the US on behalf of ARISS.  The functional change is that ARISS is
> assuming  for itself some of the tasks that AMSAT has donated in the past.
> Our working relationship is not changing.
>
> Dave Taylor, W8AAS
> AMSAT-NA Delegte to ARISS-International
>
> > On Jul 16, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > Recently, there was mention of AMSAT no longer being welcome in the
> > ISS program.  Is that true?  Or do I need more coffee this morning?
> >
> > Bob W7OTJ
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
> official views of AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 17:41:07 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 10:41:07 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <DM5PR22MB08253AB6D0801ECBC044BB37877F0@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
	<MWHPR04MB37425EA715C9F36BA52C2BA8DC7F0@MWHPR04MB3742.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
	<DM5PR22MB08253AB6D0801ECBC044BB37877F0@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2V0n85+4RN9BMbdCgTgSi66tpJgYSKEG37958YX+8E15Q@mail.gmail.com>

It is not fair to say "you guys are AMSAT" (only guys?), when so many of us
for so long have proposed things to officers that are ignored or rejected
without cause.

Asking the customer to fix the problem means that current leadership
doesn't know what to do.

Some of us have been prevented from even having access to communications.

Patrick Stoddard and I were denied access to the BoD email archive for many
months.

With no board meetings, by definition there is no direction or oversight
for IT. It's run completely by officers without any input from anyone
elected by the membership.

Joe KM1P is a hero. He has served and produced excellent work, under trying
conditions, for a long time. He does this out of generosity and does this
with care.

So, yes, we should speak up for what we want and yes, "we are AMSAT".

Please speak up. But also vote for a functional board that will help
volunteers like Joe have an easier job, support what needs to be done to
modernize AMSAT-BB, and will have his back.

Volunteers like Joe will get that from Patrick and myself. We need more on
the board to make this happen.

Please consider voting for Bob McGwier, Howie DeFelice, and Jeff Johns.

Thank you,

-Michelle W5NYV




On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 10:04 AM Joseph B. Fitzgerald via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

>
> Ken,  VA7KBM wrote:
> >... AMSAT should consider a more modern email list system.
>
> Presently the IT crew is working on migrating our servers off the existing
> Linux distribution which goes end-of-life in November to Ubuntu 20.04 LTS.
>   This will result in a change to GNU Mailman 3.0 ... more modern but not
> exactly a quantum leap.   Now would be a great time for a fleshed out
> proposal for something else since it would be hard on the users to switch
> again in another year or whatever.   I have looked at groups.io a little
> bit in the past, and it seems to be run by "good guys".    Don't wait for
> "AMSAT" to consider alternatives, you guys are AMSAT, so put together a
> good proposal and convince people.
>
> > ... It's generally not a good idea
> >for most small organizations to run their own email servers these days -
> >too much security and technical overhead, and who needs that?
>
> I surely don't need that and I am one of they guys that directly deals
> with that overhead.   That being said, an issue that trips me up every time
> I look at having someone else run things is the e-mail alias service we
> provide to anyone with a callsign.    We have somewhere around 16,000 users
> of that service and I know of no economically viable way to do that except
> on our own servers.
>
> de KM1P Joe
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 17:50:34 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 10:50:34 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
In-Reply-To: <CAKoB7Oq3AV68o+-e1HG6LFg9gyZEg4hYis9odnYN43A+nYyZhw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7OqObY4zvSpXzoFyJuh00q20B3CdaNYfap06GRqJ4SM9qw@mail.gmail.com>
	<65737213-A356-4C02-BC14-2C213628B175@gmail.com>
	<002801d65b8a$807257c0$81570740$@gmail.com>
	<CAKoB7Oq3AV68o+-e1HG6LFg9gyZEg4hYis9odnYN43A+nYyZhw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2V93RYkd3=Xc2w1Wf5ZXC1fHKieNSeLOA9d+YiBKHmejw@mail.gmail.com>

I am the Director that was on the call.

Frank Bauer has been the only source of information, so far, on the
relationship between AMSAT and ARISS.

The information is positive and greatly appreciated.

AMSAT board of directors is waiting for a promised report from the AMSAT
President about the announcement from ARISS USA.

I'm confident that the path forward can be mutually beneficial and
cooperative.

This is why regular board meetings are a good thing.

If members want regular board meetings, where relationships with
truly wonderful organizations like ARISS USA are reinforced and supported,
please carefully consider who you are voting for in this election.

The incumbents completely shut down regular meetings of the board of
directors of AMSAT.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 10:01 AM Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> My confusion remains.  In the candidate statement just sent by Robert
> McGwier, he says "AMSAT already has a damaged reputation with the
> separation of ARISS".
>
> I'd like clarification, please.
>
> Bob W7OTJ
>
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 9:02 AM <ka3hdo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Agree with all, this is NOT true.
> >
> > Please read the press release on the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS
> web
> > site www.ariss.org (4th article down).  As Dave and others eloquently
> > state,
> > ARISS-USA has a good relationship with AMSAT.  In fact, the AMSAT-NA
> > President, several AMSAT-NA senior officers and one of the AMSAT-NA BoD
> > members attended today's Lunar Gateway (AREx, or Amateur Radio
> Exploration)
> > meeting.
> >
> > I get this as a digest, so sorry about the delay.
> >
> > 73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
> > ARISS-USA Executive Director
> > AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dave Taylor <ariss.w8aas at gmail.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 10:33 AM
> > To: Bob Hammond <propgrinder at gmail.com>
> > Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
> >
> > That is not true.  AMSAT remains a sponsoring partner of the
> international
> > ARISS working group.
> >
> > What you might have seen is the announcement that the team of ARISS
> > volunteers in the US has incorporated as a non-profit corporation
> > (ARISS-USA).  This was done to allow ARISS to sign agreements (with NASA
> > and
> > others) and seek grants in the ARISS name.  In the past, AMSAT has done
> > that
> > in the US on behalf of ARISS.  The functional change is that ARISS is
> > assuming  for itself some of the tasks that AMSAT has donated in the
> past.
> > Our working relationship is not changing.
> >
> > Dave Taylor, W8AAS
> > AMSAT-NA Delegte to ARISS-International
> >
> > > On Jul 16, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB
> > <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Recently, there was mention of AMSAT no longer being welcome in the
> > > ISS program.  Is that true?  Or do I need more coffee this morning?
> > >
> > > Bob W7OTJ
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > > Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect
> the
> > official views of AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 17:53:50 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 10:53:50 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
In-Reply-To: <CAGHXx8hD5p36r3vu9zdCw=8J+LLsxGvPK-akO5H324tBFS82sQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7OqObY4zvSpXzoFyJuh00q20B3CdaNYfap06GRqJ4SM9qw@mail.gmail.com>
	<65737213-A356-4C02-BC14-2C213628B175@gmail.com>
	<002801d65b8a$807257c0$81570740$@gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8hD5p36r3vu9zdCw=8J+LLsxGvPK-akO5H324tBFS82sQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2X=eNdFX3MaVUmbg46CSVWUYE3NhYSe6vvyLhjF5T=XMg@mail.gmail.com>

I think of AMSAT and AMSAT-NA as the same thing. I think you might mean
ARISS USA.

Patrick Stoddard asked this question on the AMSAT board mailing list.

I have confidence that Frank and Clayton can figure this out and inform the
respective boards.

I would prefer that there was more alacrity here, and better communication,
but I assume they are doing their best.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 10:51 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> So, who is going to appoint representatives to ARISS? ARISS-NA or AMSAT?
>
> KF7R
>
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 9:12 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Agree with all, this is NOT true.
> >
> > Please read the press release on the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS
> web
> > site www.ariss.org (4th article down).  As Dave and others eloquently
> > state,
> > ARISS-USA has a good relationship with AMSAT.  In fact, the AMSAT-NA
> > President, several AMSAT-NA senior officers and one of the AMSAT-NA BoD
> > members attended today's Lunar Gateway (AREx, or Amateur Radio
> Exploration)
> > meeting.
> >
> > I get this as a digest, so sorry about the delay.
> >
> > 73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
> > ARISS-USA Executive Director
> > AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dave Taylor <ariss.w8aas at gmail.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 10:33 AM
> > To: Bob Hammond <propgrinder at gmail.com>
> > Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
> >
> > That is not true.  AMSAT remains a sponsoring partner of the
> international
> > ARISS working group.
> >
> > What you might have seen is the announcement that the team of ARISS
> > volunteers in the US has incorporated as a non-profit corporation
> > (ARISS-USA).  This was done to allow ARISS to sign agreements (with NASA
> > and
> > others) and seek grants in the ARISS name.  In the past, AMSAT has done
> > that
> > in the US on behalf of ARISS.  The functional change is that ARISS is
> > assuming  for itself some of the tasks that AMSAT has donated in the
> past.
> > Our working relationship is not changing.
> >
> > Dave Taylor, W8AAS
> > AMSAT-NA Delegte to ARISS-International
> >
> > > On Jul 16, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB
> > <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Recently, there was mention of AMSAT no longer being welcome in the
> > > ISS program.  Is that true?  Or do I need more coffee this morning?
> > >
> > > Bob W7OTJ
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > > Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect
> the
> > official views of AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From jfitzgerald at alum.wpi.edu  Thu Jul 16 17:55:49 2020
From: jfitzgerald at alum.wpi.edu (Joseph B. Fitzgerald)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 17:55:49 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2V0n85+4RN9BMbdCgTgSi66tpJgYSKEG37958YX+8E15Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
	<MWHPR04MB37425EA715C9F36BA52C2BA8DC7F0@MWHPR04MB3742.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
	<DM5PR22MB08253AB6D0801ECBC044BB37877F0@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
	<CACvjz2V0n85+4RN9BMbdCgTgSi66tpJgYSKEG37958YX+8E15Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DM5PR22MB082597157A4791612F731B36877F0@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Whoops ... you PEOPLE are AMSAT.  Thanks for catching that Michelle, between you and my 20 year old daughter I just might get my gender neutrality act together one day.

de KM1P

From ka3hdo at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 17:57:22 2020
From: ka3hdo at gmail.com (ka3hdo at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 13:57:22 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
In-Reply-To: <CAGHXx8hD5p36r3vu9zdCw=8J+LLsxGvPK-akO5H324tBFS82sQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7OqObY4zvSpXzoFyJuh00q20B3CdaNYfap06GRqJ4SM9qw@mail.gmail.com>
	<65737213-A356-4C02-BC14-2C213628B175@gmail.com>
	<002801d65b8a$807257c0$81570740$@gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8hD5p36r3vu9zdCw=8J+LLsxGvPK-akO5H324tBFS82sQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <008f01d65b9a$8f0f15b0$ad2d4110$@gmail.com>

AMSAT-NA appoints their representative to the ARISS-International Working Group.

 

There is no ARISS-NA.  The entity is doing business as ARISS-USA.

 

73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO

 

From: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer at gmail.com> 
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:34 PM
To: ka3hdo at gmail.com
Cc: Dave Taylor <ariss.w8aas at gmail.com>; Bob Hammond <propgrinder at gmail.com>; amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?

 

So, who is going to appoint representatives to ARISS? ARISS-NA or AMSAT? 

 

KF7R

 

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 9:12 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org> > wrote:

Agree with all, this is NOT true.  

Please read the press release on the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web
site www.ariss.org <http://www.ariss.org>  (4th article down).  As Dave and others eloquently state,
ARISS-USA has a good relationship with AMSAT.  In fact, the AMSAT-NA
President, several AMSAT-NA senior officers and one of the AMSAT-NA BoD
members attended today's Lunar Gateway (AREx, or Amateur Radio Exploration)
meeting.  

I get this as a digest, so sorry about the delay.

73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
ARISS-USA Executive Director
AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs


-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Taylor <ariss.w8aas at gmail.com <mailto:ariss.w8aas at gmail.com> > 
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 10:33 AM
To: Bob Hammond <propgrinder at gmail.com <mailto:propgrinder at gmail.com> >
Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org> 
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?

That is not true.  AMSAT remains a sponsoring partner of the international
ARISS working group.  

What you might have seen is the announcement that the team of ARISS
volunteers in the US has incorporated as a non-profit corporation
(ARISS-USA).  This was done to allow ARISS to sign agreements (with NASA and
others) and seek grants in the ARISS name.  In the past, AMSAT has done that
in the US on behalf of ARISS.  The functional change is that ARISS is
assuming  for itself some of the tasks that AMSAT has donated in the past.
Our working relationship is not changing.

Dave Taylor, W8AAS
AMSAT-NA Delegte to ARISS-International

> On Jul 16, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org> > wrote:
> 
> Recently, there was mention of AMSAT no longer being welcome in the 
> ISS program.  Is that true?  Or do I need more coffee this morning?
> 
> Bob W7OTJ
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> . AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available 
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. 
> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb



_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> . AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 17:57:53 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 10:57:53 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <DM5PR22MB082597157A4791612F731B36877F0@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
	<MWHPR04MB37425EA715C9F36BA52C2BA8DC7F0@MWHPR04MB3742.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
	<DM5PR22MB08253AB6D0801ECBC044BB37877F0@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
	<CACvjz2V0n85+4RN9BMbdCgTgSi66tpJgYSKEG37958YX+8E15Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<DM5PR22MB082597157A4791612F731B36877F0@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2WZpojbApy_barLjvzEps8nr90sxE=3FX2VBXAXfMUpXg@mail.gmail.com>

We are all works in progress.

My 17 year old daughter keel hauls me all the time.

-Michelle W5NYV



On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 10:55 AM Joseph B. Fitzgerald <
jfitzgerald at alum.wpi.edu> wrote:

> Whoops ... you PEOPLE are AMSAT.  Thanks for catching that Michelle,
> between you and my 20 year old daughter I just might get my gender
> neutrality act together one day.
>
> de KM1P

From framirezferrer at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 17:58:52 2020
From: framirezferrer at gmail.com (Fernando Ramirez)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 10:58:52 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
In-Reply-To: <008f01d65b9a$8f0f15b0$ad2d4110$@gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7OqObY4zvSpXzoFyJuh00q20B3CdaNYfap06GRqJ4SM9qw@mail.gmail.com>
	<65737213-A356-4C02-BC14-2C213628B175@gmail.com>
	<002801d65b8a$807257c0$81570740$@gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8hD5p36r3vu9zdCw=8J+LLsxGvPK-akO5H324tBFS82sQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<008f01d65b9a$8f0f15b0$ad2d4110$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGHXx8jCSUq28NA9mJa-wyOxVFwPK++JRYy495DGh_-Ew1bLzw@mail.gmail.com>

My bad, I meant ARISS USA.

73
KF7R

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 10:57 AM <ka3hdo at gmail.com> wrote:

> AMSAT-NA appoints their representative to the ARISS-International Working
> Group.
>
>
>
> There is no ARISS-NA.  The entity is doing business as ARISS-USA.
>
>
>
> 73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
>
>
>
> *From:* Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:34 PM
> *To:* ka3hdo at gmail.com
> *Cc:* Dave Taylor <ariss.w8aas at gmail.com>; Bob Hammond <
> propgrinder at gmail.com>; amsat-bb at amsat.org
> *Subject:* Re: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
>
>
>
> So, who is going to appoint representatives to ARISS? ARISS-NA or AMSAT?
>
>
>
> KF7R
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 9:12 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
> Agree with all, this is NOT true.
>
> Please read the press release on the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web
> site www.ariss.org (4th article down).  As Dave and others eloquently
> state,
> ARISS-USA has a good relationship with AMSAT.  In fact, the AMSAT-NA
> President, several AMSAT-NA senior officers and one of the AMSAT-NA BoD
> members attended today's Lunar Gateway (AREx, or Amateur Radio Exploration)
> meeting.
>
> I get this as a digest, so sorry about the delay.
>
> 73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
> ARISS-USA Executive Director
> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Taylor <ariss.w8aas at gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 10:33 AM
> To: Bob Hammond <propgrinder at gmail.com>
> Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
>
> That is not true.  AMSAT remains a sponsoring partner of the international
> ARISS working group.
>
> What you might have seen is the announcement that the team of ARISS
> volunteers in the US has incorporated as a non-profit corporation
> (ARISS-USA).  This was done to allow ARISS to sign agreements (with NASA
> and
> others) and seek grants in the ARISS name.  In the past, AMSAT has done
> that
> in the US on behalf of ARISS.  The functional change is that ARISS is
> assuming  for itself some of the tasks that AMSAT has donated in the past.
> Our working relationship is not changing.
>
> Dave Taylor, W8AAS
> AMSAT-NA Delegte to ARISS-International
>
> > On Jul 16, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > Recently, there was mention of AMSAT no longer being welcome in the
> > ISS program.  Is that true?  Or do I need more coffee this morning?
> >
> > Bob W7OTJ
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
> official views of AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>

From robert.machale at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 16 17:58:04 2020
From: robert.machale at yahoo.com (Robert MacHale)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 17:58:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] AmSat Ombudsman
In-Reply-To: <444869862.2694527.1594915801928@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <351DD49D-DF83-4E60-ABE5-0F8914F1666A@mac.com>
	<16976F65-3803-4B8C-9A6E-5FF6EC1DBE92@gmail.com>
	<C607803B-B3B5-4A79-B5A0-07229862539D@comcast.net>
	<1043767607.2567193.1594902877592@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAN6TEUfDXZEbXDYic4e4SQpzh68vct61tDf01r=iCr8vCkSZ6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<444869862.2694527.1594915801928@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1432107848.2748657.1594922284328@mail.yahoo.com>

I am sorry, forgive me, I was not listening closely to your first response.
You were in the middle of justifying my lifetime ban from ariss.net.

>>One of your APRS?gateways was rewriting packets received from the ISS packet digipeater,
adding a tagline promoting the web site for your Space Communicator?
Club.
Yes, those packets were promoting my non-profit Satellite club for Boy Scouts:?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club
Let's stop here. No need to lift a finger. Let's keep the ban - let the legend grow.
My life is so vanilla bland. Last year I taught these classes after work:
1) University of California at Riverside - Software Engineering2) La Paz Middle School after school science club - HAB with APRS Telemetry
And I presented Satellite APRS at 3 local radio clubs in Southern California. This topic of being banned is a great source of self deprecating humor garnishing unlimited laughs. It reminds us we are all human.
The longer I am banned - the longer I can tell the story. Win-Win.
But - thanks, based on your written response, for validating what was previously unclear - you are the source of the fire - the source of the problem.
Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration

Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff! 

    On Thursday, July 16, 2020, 09:17:17 AM PDT, Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 Thanks for you response.
What I hear you saying is that you had no part in disparaging Gordo. And, the assertions from Clint are not true. Is that what you are saying?
I reached out to Steve Demse about a year after the event. He seems to believe I have earned a lifetime ban from his website. His initial comments gave me the impression that the sky was falling if he did not respond to your criticism of me and the iGate.
Let's itemize all the complaints:
1) Rogue Packets2) SpaceCommunicator.club tag3) Packet Counter tag
Which one of these complaints justifies a ban? Perhaps a temporary ban while the issues are communicated. Perhaps even a warning.?
Keep in mind - you and I had not met - your eMail address was basically junk mail to me. It was missed by me - my bad - until later review after the fact. I did not notice them for weeks.

On the other hand Steve Demse and I had been in constant contact for weeks on other topics during this season. Yet - he did not ever reach out to me about these complaints. He claims he did - he did not - and I double searched my Yahoo mail for any trace of eMail from him on this topic. He claims it was sent (apparently to appease you) but it was not.
There are only 2 actors in this equation - that I am aware of - you and Steve.

There is really no reasonable explanation for a ban; much less a ban worthy of a year. The site belongs to Steve and he has no oversight or appeal. He can do whatever he wants.
If you are agreeable - perhaps you can reach out to Steve, as an AmSat official, and suggest that a one year ban is more than sufficient - has passed - and should be removed. That seems like a reasonable good faith gesture.
As an AmSat official - consider the context - a new community member working on an experiment - no mentoring available - no guidance available - just criticism and banishment. There needs to be a better new member funnel that makes people aware of the community entry points. Less isolation and more community.

Can you explain the story behind Joe Spier, your complaint about someone, your feelings that not enough was done. Did you push Joe out?
73
Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration

Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff! 

? ? On Thursday, July 16, 2020, 08:06:50 AM PDT, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net> wrote:? 
 
 Robert, 

The first part of your e-mail appears to refer to an allegation Clint 
Bradford K6LCS recently posted on this mailing list, and on other 
mailing lists and forums. As I said on the QRZ satellite forum 
yesterday, Clint's allegations about me and that web site are false.

In the few times I have publicly criticized Clint in recent years, I 
did so with my name attached to what I posted, as I did on the eHam 
satellite forum in 2016:

https://www.eham.net/community/smf/index.php?topic=108627.15

This exchange led to a letter sent by Clint to AMSAT and me, which 
threatened AMSAT with legal action. I am not aware of AMSAT taking 
actions in response to his letter, and - based on AMSAT's 2016 IRS tax
return - AMSAT did not spend any monies on legal expenses that year. 

As for the other part of your e-mail, the "some reason" packets from
your APRS Internet gateway stations no longer appear on the ariss.net 
web site, you and I had a conversation about that. One of your APRS 
gateways was rewriting packets received from the ISS packet digipeater,
adding a tagline promoting the web site for your Space Communicator 
Club. The packets containing that tagline were injected into the APRS 
Internet System (APRS-IS), violating policies of that system. Those 
packets also cluttered the listing of packets recently heard from the 
ISS on the ariss.net web site. You told me at that time you were 
testing a function on one of your gateways to put that tagline onto 
packets, something that had been happening over the period of a few 
days. This included the 20-minute period you mentioned, when one of
your gateways continued to send packets to the APRS-IS system after
the ISS had moved away from North America. 

As you stated, I contacted Steve Dimse K4HG. Steve owns the ariss.net 
and findu.com web sites, useful for displaying information on APRS 
packets. I asked Steve about the packets from your gateway that were 
showing up on his ariss.net web site. Steve reminded me of the APRS-IS
policies regarding packets being submitted to that system. Other than 
appending the call sign of the gateway that received the packet to the
packet path, no other modifications are supposed to be made to packets
sent to the APRS-IS system. I mentioned that to you in a separate 
e-mail, even citing the policies as published on the aprs-is.net web 
site. I am aware that you and Steve also had an e-mail discussion about
this around the same time. ?

After those e-mail exchanges, I heard from you that packets from your
gateways would not appear on the ariss.net site. This appears to be an
issue between you and Steve, as Steve maintains the ariss.net web site.
I have no control over that, and - as far as I know - neither does 
AMSAT. Have you reached out to Steve recently? 

73.





Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK 
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK


? 
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From n0jy at amsat.org  Thu Jul 16 18:06:46 2020
From: n0jy at amsat.org (Jerry Buxton)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 13:06:46 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Lost IP
Message-ID: <bfa86b93-48ee-e34e-5fc7-86a3b123d449@amsat.org>

While the rash of accusations, misinformation, and spin that is the
hallmark of AMSAT election time the past two years carries on at a
dizzying pace, I feel the need to speak up as (to borrow on a famous
quote) "the reports of my complete stupidity are an exaggeration".

A? background as quoted from historical emails regarding one false claim
follows.? Names of non-AMSAT Engineering volunteers have been removed
and volunteer names are used only when needed for context.?

1/26/2016
> Not sure if I closed the loop at the end of last week or not. After
> talking with AHA (nice intro from [REDACTED]), and talking with
> Notorious [REDACTED], and the space team, everyone is excited about
> DVB-S2X for both Phase 4 and Ascent (and HEO).?
>
> AHA is going to come back with some sort of offer/deal/marketing magic
> in a couple-three weeks. This would be for the payloads. Ground team
> designs an open source receiver from the standard up.?
>
> I think if we?want to go for it, we should buy an implementation of
> DVB-S2X for ascent, use format 0 for the very low SNR stuff, and start
> designing!?

7/29/2016
> Attached is an archive with documents for the AHA DVB-S2X IP cores.
> Note that there is a folder titled ?Confidential ? Protected under
> NDA?. These documents should not be posted on a public forum (anyone
> can get to the github site right?) and should be distributed on an ?as
> needed? basis to those that understand / have been briefed on the
> conditions of the NDA.

8/12/2016
> M?????? ,
>
> Please review the AHA NDA, sign the affirmation, and return it to me.
>
> If there are others we need to include you may pass these along to them
> with the same instructions.? Please be sure that we have an affirmation
> signed by the others who will be attending the meeting at AHA, before
> they have access to the materials.
>
> I will talk to the Texas contingent after we determine whether we can
> have a webinar or not, they can't travel to the meetings in person due
> to the length of time involved.
>
> I will keep the documents secured on an AMSAT server and we can pull
> them out to distribute as we determine who needs to see them and have
> their affirmation.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Jerry Buxton, N?JY
> Vice President - Engineering

> Here you go! :+)
> [in response, with completed NDA attached]

-------------------
As stated, the documents are secured on an AMSAT server.? There are only
two NDA affirmations on file with the documents, on the server.

> \P4B\AHA NDA\Affirmations
> Buxton NDA Affirmation-signed.pdf
> T ? ? ?? NDA Affirmation Signed MDT.pdf

It should be noted that the same property mentioned in the 7/29/2016 was
sent to Virginia Tech partners in the same email as to AMSAT.? I do not
have any insight to their NDA (if any) with the owner of the IP.

With no other NDA affirmations on file to date much less those as
requested for the meeting or use of the property, it would appear that
neither the team that went to the meeting nor any other person in AMSAT
Engineering needed access to the IP?? Absent any acquisition of the
files from the server by someone who had signed the NDA affirmation for
distribution without my knowledge (affirmation is required in order for
me to provide them with the passwords for the archives) it would appear
that the need for the IP was not realized.? This may have been due to
the termination of the Heimdallr "CQC" project, or the departure of many
CQC ASCENT Engineers to ORI, or both.? And there may certainly have been
other reasons that our engineers chose not to pursue use of DVB-S2X for
a period of time.

The IP and NDA still exists and to the best of my understanding of it,
the agreement for use and non-disclosure is still effective.? There will
no doubt be opportunities for use in HEO as was first mentioned in the
negotiation and enthusiasm for use of the IP with P4B, CQC, and future
HEO, despite the termination of CQC and the hold (at least at this time)
on any VT need of help for P4B.

When AMSAT Engineers are working an idea as ASCENT or P4B, a design idea
as was GOLF, or a project as is GOLF now, if there is technology that is
shown to be useful with a proper need to justify the cost of the
technology and resulting implementation of new satellites, I have
historically supported the Engineering Team by doing what bosses do by
providing them with the tools they need to do great work.? The AHA is
such an example and shows the trust I have had with all of the engineers
under my supervision including those who I may not have or do not now,
necessarily agree with or see eye to eye.? To me it makes no sense to
derail AMSAT progress over personal feelings.? That's just the me that
was elected VPE.? Ask any engineer, and we may have disagreed or argued
over things along the way but we continue to work together and things
turn out happy for everyone.? It is unfortunate but part of life that
some just cannot put aside differences to reach that common goal.? In
the recent situation I believe it has something to do with the fact that
I am not considered of the caliber of the upper class who knows all
things about space and technology and it is probably easily shown that I
am in many regards, in their point of view, stupid.? I can take that,
but as I said these reports of my COMPLETE stupidity are an exaggeration.

I could research and respond to other statements that exaggerate my best
asset as well, honestly the time spent is better spent doing what we do
to keep satellites going up.? This email did not happen in two minutes,
it was in excess of two hours.? I think that is part of the election
time disruption plan, distracting everyone and causing extra work and
FUD, but despite the high noise floor your dedicated Engineering Team
volunteers haven't looked up from their work.? And I do not intend to
take any more of my AMSAT time to address any other concocted
statements, I say that with the hope and belief that you can all realize
that these statements only come from one source and no one, ever, has
asked the other party (i.e. me in this case) for their statement on the
subject before the stuff gets flung to the masses as truth.? Even a
rocket scientist would realize that you can't accomplish anything of
value working with only one half, one "all knowing" engineer's view, of
the needed information.? And that right there is all that need be said
regarding the source of the stuff flying my way.

As I said I hope that this gives you some thought to the truth of this
instance but I must raise one more important consideration before I
close; All or many of your fellow hams in AMSAT Engineering are
implicated by this and other not-true, broad claims - I will not
tolerate that and I think it is fair to ask that you do not engage in or
tolerate that either.? Thank you.

-- 
Jerry Buxton, N?JY


From bruce at perens.com  Thu Jul 16 18:09:12 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 11:09:12 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
In-Reply-To: <CAGHXx8hD5p36r3vu9zdCw=8J+LLsxGvPK-akO5H324tBFS82sQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7OqObY4zvSpXzoFyJuh00q20B3CdaNYfap06GRqJ4SM9qw@mail.gmail.com>
	<65737213-A356-4C02-BC14-2C213628B175@gmail.com>
	<002801d65b8a$807257c0$81570740$@gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8hD5p36r3vu9zdCw=8J+LLsxGvPK-akO5H324tBFS82sQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOvYvsXYJm8e-cRSB9a933n9QQGEugBboJx-VFcAOyfZ7g@mail.gmail.com>

Until I am told otherwise, I am going to assume that in addition to the
Phase 4 project having walked off of AMSAT and formed ORI, ARISS has now
walked off and is also functioning as an independent entity.

Bob MgGwier N4HY is someone we can trust, and an eminent space scientist of
long duration and impeccable credentials, but I would much rather hear
first-hand from Frank Bauer. I don't know him.

ORI now has a lot more missions than just Phase 4. It would be nice for all
of these former-AMSAT-projects to return to AMSAT.

    Thanks

    Bruce

From badencapecod at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 18:45:09 2020
From: badencapecod at gmail.com (Wes Baden)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 14:45:09 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] August 1 Moratorium on BOD Election Messaging?
Message-ID: <CAPvDab1=+aAj=Ypy681Z=ZU2ET1MwQ-5c79kzf-nyoRPFYHVnQ@mail.gmail.com>

I've now received my 2020 Election Ballot for electing three individuals to
the AMSAT BOD.  This prompts me to ask--or at least to propose--that a
moratorium be placed on this BB for any and all messaging concerning the
election, effective August 1.  This would include messages from the
candidates themselves or anyone submitting posts for or against them.  In
my opinion at least, there's been a sufficient airing of views as it is and
two more weeks provide enough time for any member who's received a ballot
but (mercifully) has not seen all the messaging that's appeared in the last
month or so.  The candidates' written statements, along with election posts
here for two more weeks, are enough.  Indeed, enough is enough.  I long for
a return to posts relating to matters such as antennas, software
installation, new satellites in orbit, upcoming rovers, helpful advice for
newbies, and geeky, technical information for old hands, just to name a few
subjects.  Is there a site administrator who can implement this?

73 de Wes NA1ME FN54 (always happy to sked if you need this Maine grid).

From pgprendergast at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 16 19:12:24 2020
From: pgprendergast at yahoo.com (Peter)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 19:12:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] What is the function of a Board of Directors?
In-Reply-To: <1662986521.829843.1594651479690@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1662986521.829843.1594651479690.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1662986521.829843.1594651479690@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <232754861.2798082.1594926744364@mail.yahoo.com>

 I've noted some peculiar posts regarding the responsibilities of a Board of Directors lately.
I've been on many boards in my career most of very large organizations and have not seen beforeverbiage as posted here.
A board of directors is responsible for setting the mission, vision and values of an organization.The board approves a budget set by senior leadersThe board sets the vision for the next year or multiple years and the priorities of the organization.The board holds senior leadership accountable for executing all of the above.
What a board does NOT do is engage in operational activity of ANY kind.? That sort of behavioris incredibly disruptive and damaging to the senior leaders responsible for execution of all the above.
When you vote, consider these foundational principles.? Choose candidates not based on theirtechnical backgrounds as that talent isn't necessarily helpful at the board level, but instead ona candidate who can inspire, collaborate and can serve as a leader, not necessarily an operationalexpert.??
In fact, candidates who promote technical expertise may find it irresistible to intervene in day to dayoperations causing confusion among the senior leadership.
Their are clearly some very talented candidates with significant technical expertise.? These individualsare a treasure to the organization and must have their energies nurtured in a way to productively movethe organization forward.
I hope you all will ponder this as you prepare to vote.
PeterW2PP


  

From bruce at perens.com  Thu Jul 16 19:28:49 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 12:28:49 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Lost IP
In-Reply-To: <bfa86b93-48ee-e34e-5fc7-86a3b123d449@amsat.org>
References: <bfa86b93-48ee-e34e-5fc7-86a3b123d449@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOvP_q-KiXRd8XJa_OUxqOofRhMySV1JwWkZRR=azAauDg@mail.gmail.com>

Sigh. I suspect this arose from improper intellectual property policy. This
work was intended to be added to an Open Source project, and and NDA was
not appropriate for it.

Adding to all of this is the fact that AHA is difficult to deal with
regarding intellectual property because, in my experience, they simply
don't understand it. I have gotten purported legal agreements from AHA that
were written by a salesperson rather than an attorney - and that is working
for a public company customer where the risk is much higher. And they are
known to have entirely lost the recipe for a product. I doubt the situation
is salvageable. A student's summer work got wasted and that is who is owed
an apology.

    Thanks

    Bruce

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 19:32:26 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 12:32:26 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Lost IP
In-Reply-To: <bfa86b93-48ee-e34e-5fc7-86a3b123d449@amsat.org>
References: <bfa86b93-48ee-e34e-5fc7-86a3b123d449@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2Xovc8aVF2FhFZcd0tXfMGPoQj0=-hLvHaNxuG_zYW4uA@mail.gmail.com>

Why are you posting communications under NDA to a public list?

It's really not under dispute. The donated IP cores were lost and
the signed NDA was lost.

Now you post this in anger. I don't think that was wise.

If we had AMSAT board meetings, this sort of thing would have come up over
the past year in a more appropriate forum.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 12:21 PM Jerry Buxton via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> While the rash of accusations, misinformation, and spin that is the
> hallmark of AMSAT election time the past two years carries on at a
> dizzying pace, I feel the need to speak up as (to borrow on a famous
> quote) "the reports of my complete stupidity are an exaggeration".
>
> A  background as quoted from historical emails regarding one false claim
> follows.  Names of non-AMSAT Engineering volunteers have been removed
> and volunteer names are used only when needed for context.
>
> 1/26/2016
> > Not sure if I closed the loop at the end of last week or not. After
> > talking with AHA (nice intro from [REDACTED]), and talking with
> > Notorious [REDACTED], and the space team, everyone is excited about
> > DVB-S2X for both Phase 4 and Ascent (and HEO).
> >
> > AHA is going to come back with some sort of offer/deal/marketing magic
> > in a couple-three weeks. This would be for the payloads. Ground team
> > designs an open source receiver from the standard up.
> >
> > I think if we want to go for it, we should buy an implementation of
> > DVB-S2X for ascent, use format 0 for the very low SNR stuff, and start
> > designing!
>
> 7/29/2016
> > Attached is an archive with documents for the AHA DVB-S2X IP cores.
> > Note that there is a folder titled ?Confidential ? Protected under
> > NDA?. These documents should not be posted on a public forum (anyone
> > can get to the github site right?) and should be distributed on an ?as
> > needed? basis to those that understand / have been briefed on the
> > conditions of the NDA.
>
> 8/12/2016
> > M       ,
> >
> > Please review the AHA NDA, sign the affirmation, and return it to me.
> >
> > If there are others we need to include you may pass these along to them
> > with the same instructions.  Please be sure that we have an affirmation
> > signed by the others who will be attending the meeting at AHA, before
> > they have access to the materials.
> >
> > I will talk to the Texas contingent after we determine whether we can
> > have a webinar or not, they can't travel to the meetings in person due
> > to the length of time involved.
> >
> > I will keep the documents secured on an AMSAT server and we can pull
> > them out to distribute as we determine who needs to see them and have
> > their affirmation.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > --
> > Jerry Buxton, N?JY
> > Vice President - Engineering
>
> > Here you go! :+)
> > [in response, with completed NDA attached]
>
> -------------------
> As stated, the documents are secured on an AMSAT server.  There are only
> two NDA affirmations on file with the documents, on the server.
>
> > \P4B\AHA NDA\Affirmations
> > Buxton NDA Affirmation-signed.pdf
> > T        NDA Affirmation Signed MDT.pdf
>
> It should be noted that the same property mentioned in the 7/29/2016 was
> sent to Virginia Tech partners in the same email as to AMSAT.  I do not
> have any insight to their NDA (if any) with the owner of the IP.
>
> With no other NDA affirmations on file to date much less those as
> requested for the meeting or use of the property, it would appear that
> neither the team that went to the meeting nor any other person in AMSAT
> Engineering needed access to the IP?  Absent any acquisition of the
> files from the server by someone who had signed the NDA affirmation for
> distribution without my knowledge (affirmation is required in order for
> me to provide them with the passwords for the archives) it would appear
> that the need for the IP was not realized.  This may have been due to
> the termination of the Heimdallr "CQC" project, or the departure of many
> CQC ASCENT Engineers to ORI, or both.  And there may certainly have been
> other reasons that our engineers chose not to pursue use of DVB-S2X for
> a period of time.
>
> The IP and NDA still exists and to the best of my understanding of it,
> the agreement for use and non-disclosure is still effective.  There will
> no doubt be opportunities for use in HEO as was first mentioned in the
> negotiation and enthusiasm for use of the IP with P4B, CQC, and future
> HEO, despite the termination of CQC and the hold (at least at this time)
> on any VT need of help for P4B.
>
> When AMSAT Engineers are working an idea as ASCENT or P4B, a design idea
> as was GOLF, or a project as is GOLF now, if there is technology that is
> shown to be useful with a proper need to justify the cost of the
> technology and resulting implementation of new satellites, I have
> historically supported the Engineering Team by doing what bosses do by
> providing them with the tools they need to do great work.  The AHA is
> such an example and shows the trust I have had with all of the engineers
> under my supervision including those who I may not have or do not now,
> necessarily agree with or see eye to eye.  To me it makes no sense to
> derail AMSAT progress over personal feelings.  That's just the me that
> was elected VPE.  Ask any engineer, and we may have disagreed or argued
> over things along the way but we continue to work together and things
> turn out happy for everyone.  It is unfortunate but part of life that
> some just cannot put aside differences to reach that common goal.  In
> the recent situation I believe it has something to do with the fact that
> I am not considered of the caliber of the upper class who knows all
> things about space and technology and it is probably easily shown that I
> am in many regards, in their point of view, stupid.  I can take that,
> but as I said these reports of my COMPLETE stupidity are an exaggeration.
>
> I could research and respond to other statements that exaggerate my best
> asset as well, honestly the time spent is better spent doing what we do
> to keep satellites going up.  This email did not happen in two minutes,
> it was in excess of two hours.  I think that is part of the election
> time disruption plan, distracting everyone and causing extra work and
> FUD, but despite the high noise floor your dedicated Engineering Team
> volunteers haven't looked up from their work.  And I do not intend to
> take any more of my AMSAT time to address any other concocted
> statements, I say that with the hope and belief that you can all realize
> that these statements only come from one source and no one, ever, has
> asked the other party (i.e. me in this case) for their statement on the
> subject before the stuff gets flung to the masses as truth.  Even a
> rocket scientist would realize that you can't accomplish anything of
> value working with only one half, one "all knowing" engineer's view, of
> the needed information.  And that right there is all that need be said
> regarding the source of the stuff flying my way.
>
> As I said I hope that this gives you some thought to the truth of this
> instance but I must raise one more important consideration before I
> close; All or many of your fellow hams in AMSAT Engineering are
> implicated by this and other not-true, broad claims - I will not
> tolerate that and I think it is fair to ask that you do not engage in or
> tolerate that either.  Thank you.
>
> --
> Jerry Buxton, N?JY
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From ke4al at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 16 19:39:30 2020
From: ke4al at yahoo.com (Robert Bankston)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 19:39:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2V0n85+4RN9BMbdCgTgSi66tpJgYSKEG37958YX+8E15Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
	<MWHPR04MB37425EA715C9F36BA52C2BA8DC7F0@MWHPR04MB3742.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
	<DM5PR22MB08253AB6D0801ECBC044BB37877F0@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
	<CACvjz2V0n85+4RN9BMbdCgTgSi66tpJgYSKEG37958YX+8E15Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1626618660.2822943.1594928370156@mail.yahoo.com>

Wow,? I can't believe you hijacked this thread to continue to spread misinformation and play the victim card.
??
No one in AMSAT is stopping you from having Board Meetings, other than yourselves.
??
Part of being a leader is to build consensus and motivate those you work with or under you.? When differing positions are present, you work towards a compromised solution to allow the organization to move forward and grow.
??
Did either you or Patrick reach across the aisle and ask one of the other 5 Directors to join you in a call for a meeting?? As you said, you needed 3 Directors to call a meeting.? You already had 2. I really find it hard that no one would join you, especiall when at least two of the votes you disclosed were split 4-3.
??
Does the meeting have to be conducted by teleconference?? The Board has a mailing list, so a meeting could be conducted via email.? That same mailing list could be used to discuss issues and develop a plan of action that could then be acted upon.
??
Does the Board have to hold a monthly meeting?? If not, how often?? I notice that ORI, per their website, conducted 3 meetings in 2018 and only one in 2019.? Is their work that much less important than AMSAT that the Board needs to meet so infrequently?
??
On that same website, https://openresearch.institute/executive-board-meeting-minutes/? I see that ORI conducts its board meetings via email.? Would that not answer the question above.
??
AMSAT Directors are elected by the members, and the Directors elect the Officers (thank you for your vote, by the way).? You also have the right as a Director to call for the dismissal of an officer when they do not perform to standard. To my knowledge you and Patrick have made not such call, yet you continually continue to berate AMSAT Officers and fellow Directors in public and in private.
??
Let's be honest. The only way you can get what you want is to take control of AMSAT.? That's not leadership.

Enough of the political spin and outright lies.? Let us do our job and you and Patrick do your.

Robert, KE4AL




On Thursday, July 16, 2020, 12:51:54 PM CDT, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 


It is not fair to say "you guys are AMSAT" (only guys?), when so many of us
for so long have proposed things to officers that are ignored or rejected
without cause.

Asking the customer to fix the problem means that current leadership
doesn't know what to do.

Some of us have been prevented from even having access to communications.

Patrick Stoddard and I were denied access to the BoD email archive for many
months.

With no board meetings, by definition there is no direction or oversight
for IT. It's run completely by officers without any input from anyone
elected by the membership.

Joe KM1P is a hero. He has served and produced excellent work, under trying
conditions, for a long time. He does this out of generosity and does this
with care.

So, yes, we should speak up for what we want and yes, "we are AMSAT".

Please speak up. But also vote for a functional board that will help
volunteers like Joe have an easier job, support what needs to be done to
modernize AMSAT-BB, and will have his back.

Volunteers like Joe will get that from Patrick and myself. We need more on
the board to make this happen.

Please consider voting for Bob McGwier, Howie DeFelice, and Jeff Johns.

Thank you,

-Michelle W5NYV

From ka3hdo at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 19:55:41 2020
From: ka3hdo at gmail.com (ka3hdo at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 15:55:41 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOvYvsXYJm8e-cRSB9a933n9QQGEugBboJx-VFcAOyfZ7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7OqObY4zvSpXzoFyJuh00q20B3CdaNYfap06GRqJ4SM9qw@mail.gmail.com>
	<65737213-A356-4C02-BC14-2C213628B175@gmail.com>
	<002801d65b8a$807257c0$81570740$@gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8hD5p36r3vu9zdCw=8J+LLsxGvPK-akO5H324tBFS82sQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvYvsXYJm8e-cRSB9a933n9QQGEugBboJx-VFcAOyfZ7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000201d65bab$15db7f10$41927d30$@gmail.com>

I think the words ?walked off? is harsh and not true.  So please refrain from using that language regarding any discussion about the relationship between ARISS-USA and AMSAT-NA.

 

Several of you have requested more details on the recent entity birth of ARISS-USA, I suggest you read the press release on ariss.org.  From an historic perspective here are a few more details:  

 

ARISS has grown and matured.  When we started this program 24 years ago, ARISS was a working group and most of our efforts were funded by NASA. Funding support changed subtlety in 2006 and abruptly in 2014. From 2014 on, ARISS had to garner all funding necessary to keep the program alive and sustained. As many know, critical in program sustainment is setting up agreements and garnering sponsors for the program.  Today, ARISS has a much bigger portfolio on ISS (thanks to the steadfast support of AMSAT-NA).  We now have new, emerging radio systems on ISS (which the ham community will benefit from soon).  And the evolution of the next-gen radio system will provide more impactful education. In addition to this, the landscape on ISS is expanding rapidly with commercial crew astronauts now on-board, tourists on-board ISS in the future and commercial modules to support these tourist astronauts as housing, enabling them to perform research, enjoying Earth views, and, hopefully, using an on-board ham radio system.  In addition, as the space agencies are expanding into deep space, to the moon, we leading the ham radio efforts on the Lunar Gateway.  All these current and future initiatives need myriad of agreements, etc.  This, coupled with the fact that we kept getting questions from our sponsors asking why we had not become our own separate entity, we started the discussions to become an entity in February 2019 finalized this as an entity in late May.  I hope this historic perspective helps all understand why we transformed ARISS-USA into an entity.  

 

As the Executive Director for ARISS-USA, I want to say emphatically, in all the endeavors described above, ARISS-USA wants to continue its long-term, outstanding relationship with AMSAT-NA.  

 

Ad astra!

 

73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO

ARISS-USA Executive Director

AMSAT V.P. for Human Spaceflight Operations  

 

From: Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> 
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 2:09 PM
To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer at gmail.com>
Cc: ka3hdo at gmail.com; AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?

 

Until I am told otherwise, I am going to assume that in addition to the Phase 4 project having walked off of AMSAT and formed ORI, ARISS has now walked off and is also functioning as an independent entity.

 

Bob MgGwier N4HY is someone we can trust, and an eminent space scientist of long duration and impeccable credentials, but I would much rather hear first-hand from Frank Bauer. I don't know him.

 

ORI now has a lot more missions than just Phase 4. It would be nice for all of these former-AMSAT-projects to return to AMSAT.

 

    Thanks

 

    Bruce

 

 


From bruce at perens.com  Thu Jul 16 20:15:23 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 13:15:23 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
In-Reply-To: <000201d65bab$15db7f10$41927d30$@gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7OqObY4zvSpXzoFyJuh00q20B3CdaNYfap06GRqJ4SM9qw@mail.gmail.com>
	<65737213-A356-4C02-BC14-2C213628B175@gmail.com>
	<002801d65b8a$807257c0$81570740$@gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8hD5p36r3vu9zdCw=8J+LLsxGvPK-akO5H324tBFS82sQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvYvsXYJm8e-cRSB9a933n9QQGEugBboJx-VFcAOyfZ7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<000201d65bab$15db7f10$41927d30$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOsLnWceFCDpwe1eSSjVbd_MO6CXNWBGLnM-FSDpU3qFEA@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you, Frank. I will do as you say.

From ariss.w8aas at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 20:49:36 2020
From: ariss.w8aas at gmail.com (Dave Taylor)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 16:49:36 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOvYvsXYJm8e-cRSB9a933n9QQGEugBboJx-VFcAOyfZ7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7OqObY4zvSpXzoFyJuh00q20B3CdaNYfap06GRqJ4SM9qw@mail.gmail.com>
	<65737213-A356-4C02-BC14-2C213628B175@gmail.com>
	<002801d65b8a$807257c0$81570740$@gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8hD5p36r3vu9zdCw=8J+LLsxGvPK-akO5H324tBFS82sQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvYvsXYJm8e-cRSB9a933n9QQGEugBboJx-VFcAOyfZ7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D0844F15-392A-4B67-B21D-680DF7D9C07A@gmail.com>

Assume what you like, Bruce.  But for clarification of Bob McGwier?s statement about AMSAT?s reputation, you?ll have to ask Bob what he meant.  Neither Frank nor anyone else can speak for him.

As for ARISS, the international working group is and always has been an independent activity, co-sponsored by AMSAT, ARRL, and many other ham organizations around the world.  The ARISS volunteer team in the US has not walked away from anyone, merely formed a legal entity to allow actions it could not undertake otherwise.

Dave, W8AAS

> On Jul 16, 2020, at 2:09 PM, Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> Until I am told otherwise, I am going to assume that in addition to the
> Phase 4 project having walked off of AMSAT and formed ORI, ARISS has now
> walked off and is also functioning as an independent entity.
> 
> Bob MgGwier N4HY is someone we can trust, and an eminent space scientist of
> long duration and impeccable credentials, but I would much rather hear
> first-hand from Frank Bauer. I don't know him.
> 
> ORI now has a lot more missions than just Phase 4. It would be nice for all
> of these former-AMSAT-projects to return to AMSAT.
> 
>    Thanks
> 
>    Bruce
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From bruce at perens.com  Thu Jul 16 20:52:28 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 13:52:28 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
In-Reply-To: <D0844F15-392A-4B67-B21D-680DF7D9C07A@gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7OqObY4zvSpXzoFyJuh00q20B3CdaNYfap06GRqJ4SM9qw@mail.gmail.com>
	<65737213-A356-4C02-BC14-2C213628B175@gmail.com>
	<002801d65b8a$807257c0$81570740$@gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8hD5p36r3vu9zdCw=8J+LLsxGvPK-akO5H324tBFS82sQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvYvsXYJm8e-cRSB9a933n9QQGEugBboJx-VFcAOyfZ7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<D0844F15-392A-4B67-B21D-680DF7D9C07A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOsd3n8=k1pYngQy0kigzFtv8QNJxs3MxXwmPBTWKXE4ow@mail.gmail.com>

Dave,

It is very easy to get out of sync on emails. Frank has already corrected
my assumptions and I have agreed to state the situation as he desires.
Let's all have a nice day now, please.

    Thanks

    Bruce

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 20:53:59 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 13:53:59 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <1626618660.2822943.1594928370156@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
	<MWHPR04MB37425EA715C9F36BA52C2BA8DC7F0@MWHPR04MB3742.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
	<DM5PR22MB08253AB6D0801ECBC044BB37877F0@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
	<CACvjz2V0n85+4RN9BMbdCgTgSi66tpJgYSKEG37958YX+8E15Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1626618660.2822943.1594928370156@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2WPugdyQzqN2aOm3Yw3tpLeXgYGLsjF6h1UgnLVdtX-Pg@mail.gmail.com>

That is incorrect.

Ignored email is simply not a substitute for a board meeting.

Board meetings must either be called by three board members, or called by
the President. Two of us have patiently repeated the call for regular
meetings. These requests have been ignored.

Neither of the two Presidents we've had this year have called regular board
meetings. Clayton called one in March, and like I said, it went well, and
was supposed to be the start of a regular schedule. Nothing heard since
then, which is a disappointment.

This problem started in September 2019. I think Patrick and I have been
very, very patient with this.

At the 2019 annual meeting, Joe Spier, Mark Hammond, and Jerry Buxton spun
quite the tale of how AMSAT board meetings were unproductive, unnecessary.
Silly even. Everyone went along with this except Patrick and myself.

Not having meetings is bad corporate practice. Others have pointed this
out. There is no good reason not to have them. We'd be in such better shape
with regular meetings and good decisions.

It isn't too much to ask of the membership to please consider replacing
people that block board meetings and refuse to meet, either because they
are not capable of coming up with efficient agendas, or because they don't
want to hear from anyone outside of their clique.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 1:39 PM Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Wow,  I can't believe you hijacked this thread to continue to spread
> misinformation and play the victim card.
>
> No one in AMSAT is stopping you from having Board Meetings, other than
> yourselves.
>
> Part of being a leader is to build consensus and motivate those you work
> with or under you.  When differing positions are present, you work towards
> a compromised solution to allow the organization to move forward and grow.
>
> Did either you or Patrick reach across the aisle and ask one of the other
> 5 Directors to join you in a call for a meeting?  As you said, you needed 3
> Directors to call a meeting.  You already had 2. I really find it hard that
> no one would join you, especiall when at least two of the votes you
> disclosed were split 4-3.
>
> Does the meeting have to be conducted by teleconference?  The Board has a
> mailing list, so a meeting could be conducted via email.  That same mailing
> list could be used to discuss issues and develop a plan of action that
> could then be acted upon.
>
> Does the Board have to hold a monthly meeting?  If not, how often?  I
> notice that ORI, per their website, conducted 3 meetings in 2018 and only
> one in 2019.  Is their work that much less important than AMSAT that the
> Board needs to meet so infrequently?
>
> On that same website,
> https://openresearch.institute/executive-board-meeting-minutes/  I see
> that ORI conducts its board meetings via email.  Would that not answer the
> question above.
>
> AMSAT Directors are elected by the members, and the Directors elect the
> Officers (thank you for your vote, by the way).  You also have the right as
> a Director to call for the dismissal of an officer when they do not perform
> to standard. To my knowledge you and Patrick have made not such call, yet
> you continually continue to berate AMSAT Officers and fellow Directors in
> public and in private.
>
> Let's be honest. The only way you can get what you want is to take control
> of AMSAT.  That's not leadership.
>
> Enough of the political spin and outright lies.  Let us do our job and you
> and Patrick do your.
>
> Robert, KE4AL
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, July 16, 2020, 12:51:54 PM CDT, Michelle Thompson via
> AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>
> It is not fair to say "you guys are AMSAT" (only guys?), when so many of us
> for so long have proposed things to officers that are ignored or rejected
> without cause.
>
> Asking the customer to fix the problem means that current leadership
> doesn't know what to do.
>
> Some of us have been prevented from even having access to communications.
>
> Patrick Stoddard and I were denied access to the BoD email archive for many
> months.
>
> With no board meetings, by definition there is no direction or oversight
> for IT. It's run completely by officers without any input from anyone
> elected by the membership.
>
> Joe KM1P is a hero. He has served and produced excellent work, under trying
> conditions, for a long time. He does this out of generosity and does this
> with care.
>
> So, yes, we should speak up for what we want and yes, "we are AMSAT".
>
> Please speak up. But also vote for a functional board that will help
> volunteers like Joe have an easier job, support what needs to be done to
> modernize AMSAT-BB, and will have his back.
>
> Volunteers like Joe will get that from Patrick and myself. We need more on
> the board to make this happen.
>
> Please consider voting for Bob McGwier, Howie DeFelice, and Jeff Johns.
>
> Thank you,
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 16 20:58:24 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 13:58:24 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] What is the function of a Board of Directors?
In-Reply-To: <232754861.2798082.1594926744364@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1662986521.829843.1594651479690.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1662986521.829843.1594651479690@mail.yahoo.com>
	<232754861.2798082.1594926744364@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1ad133c9-11b0-4db9-a6dc-b227b5720ff2@yahoo.com>

Exactly Peter.

Amsat is a 501(c)(3) incorporated club. There is no management team in place. No Executive Director, no Director of Development, no Program Offices, etc.

When Amsat was formed, it was a group of bright techies from the aerospace industry who wanted to put up a ham satellite. They were well connected and OSCAR 1 was successfully launched. This has continued for quite a while and Amsat has trundled along quite nicely.

Until the satellite world became heavily commercialized and diversified, and the costs associated with building, launching and maintaining satellites skyrocketed. Intentional word.

Amsat was outgrown. The org never grew out of its original model. It became stagnant.

Now the GM is seeing that there are no real USA ham launches and are wondering why. Asking questions. No real forthcoming replies. The GM is asking for some changes.

Humans typically have a difficult time with change. Especially as we age. Some of the entrenched have no idea what to do. They hunker down, argue, grow combative and develop a "coat of arms". Arms across the chest with fingers pointing in opposite directions.

I also have quite a bit of experience with 501(c)(3) orgs. Founding some, maintaining some, being on the BOD of some and have a individual I am very close to who got their MBA in non-profit management. I get to see some pretty nasty stuff going on without being directly involved.

Amsat needs to change. NOW!

I sent a list of ideas for BOD improvement to a sitting member. These ideas will modernize the BOD and as a result Amsat. Time to move from 1969 to 2021, and beyond.

Creative responses are welcome. Flaming and/or vitriol will be sent to IT, the sender will blocked & blacklisted.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 16, 2020, 13:17, at 13:17, Peter via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>I've noted some peculiar posts regarding the responsibilities of a
>Board of Directors lately.
>I've been on many boards in my career most of very large organizations
>and have not seen beforeverbiage as posted here.
>A board of directors is responsible for setting the mission, vision and
>values of an organization.The board approves a budget set by senior
>leadersThe board sets the vision for the next year or multiple years
>and the priorities of the organization.The board holds senior
>leadership accountable for executing all of the above.
>What a board does NOT do is engage in operational activity of ANY
>kind.? That sort of behavioris incredibly disruptive and damaging to
>the senior leaders responsible for execution of all the above.
>When you vote, consider these foundational principles.? Choose
>candidates not based on theirtechnical backgrounds as that talent isn't
>necessarily helpful at the board level, but instead ona candidate who
>can inspire, collaborate and can serve as a leader, not necessarily an
>operationalexpert.??
>In fact, candidates who promote technical expertise may find it
>irresistible to intervene in day to dayoperations causing confusion
>among the senior leadership.
>Their are clearly some very talented candidates with significant
>technical expertise.? These individualsare a treasure to the
>organization and must have their energies nurtured in a way to
>productively movethe organization forward.
>I hope you all will ponder this as you prepare to vote.
>PeterW2PP
>
>
>  
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From framirezferrer at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 21:10:58 2020
From: framirezferrer at gmail.com (Fernando Ramirez)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 14:10:58 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS and AMSAT?
In-Reply-To: <D0844F15-392A-4B67-B21D-680DF7D9C07A@gmail.com>
References: <CAKoB7OqObY4zvSpXzoFyJuh00q20B3CdaNYfap06GRqJ4SM9qw@mail.gmail.com>
	<65737213-A356-4C02-BC14-2C213628B175@gmail.com>
	<002801d65b8a$807257c0$81570740$@gmail.com>
	<CAGHXx8hD5p36r3vu9zdCw=8J+LLsxGvPK-akO5H324tBFS82sQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvYvsXYJm8e-cRSB9a933n9QQGEugBboJx-VFcAOyfZ7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<D0844F15-392A-4B67-B21D-680DF7D9C07A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGHXx8grY5mseGnTeem5n8XCm85u3q4h1u+fMoaTaOXR-HiHfA@mail.gmail.com>

Please forgive my ignorance but I'm confused about this AMSAT-ARISS USA
deal is going to work. Wouldn't be the rational thing for ARISS USA to
appoint the representatives to ARISS (at least the US representative)? What
if an AMSAT BoD decides to appoint someone who is not a part of ARISS USA?

KF7R


On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 1:49 PM Dave Taylor <ariss.w8aas at gmail.com> wrote:

> Assume what you like, Bruce.  But for clarification of Bob McGwier?s
> statement about AMSAT?s reputation, you?ll have to ask Bob what he meant.
> Neither Frank nor anyone else can speak for him.
>
> As for ARISS, the international working group is and always has been an
> independent activity, co-sponsored by AMSAT, ARRL, and many other ham
> organizations around the world.  The ARISS volunteer team in the US has not
> walked away from anyone, merely formed a legal entity to allow actions it
> could not undertake otherwise.
>
> Dave, W8AAS
>
> > On Jul 16, 2020, at 2:09 PM, Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > Until I am told otherwise, I am going to assume that in addition to the
> > Phase 4 project having walked off of AMSAT and formed ORI, ARISS has now
> > walked off and is also functioning as an independent entity.
> >
> > Bob MgGwier N4HY is someone we can trust, and an eminent space scientist
> of
> > long duration and impeccable credentials, but I would much rather hear
> > first-hand from Frank Bauer. I don't know him.
> >
> > ORI now has a lot more missions than just Phase 4. It would be nice for
> all
> > of these former-AMSAT-projects to return to AMSAT.
> >
> >    Thanks
> >
> >    Bruce
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>

From wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc  Thu Jul 16 21:28:20 2020
From: wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc (Burns Fisher)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 17:28:20 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Working together
Message-ID: <CABX7KxXvgTawmoS9zqsDXsjS08NEST9sSwp3AeMH805WKuUN1Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am Burns Fisher, WB1FJ.  I'm a retired software engineer who is currently
writing software as a volunteer for AMSAT.  In my career, I have written
software that is not open source, as well as that which is--I don't have an
ax to grind in that fight.  I am not going to endorse or recommend against
any candidates in this mail, but I do want to bring to light a few items
that I don't believe have been discussed and to make a suggestion.

One thing that I have not heard in the discussion is that "not fully
open-source" is different from "proprietary".  I am NOT and never have been
an AMSAT director nor a policy decision maker in any form, but in my 10
years writing software for AMSAT satellites, I have had to deal with ITAR.  I
have been told to talk about things with non-US persons only after they are
published, for example.  However, I have NEVER seen or been told that it
was the intent of anyone in AMSAT to keep any information private forever.
We are encouraged to publish work that we are doing in the AMSAT Journal
and to talk and write about it for the Symposium (and I have done so).   In
addition, if you look in the back of your AMSAT Symposium Proceedings for
the past 8 or more years, you will find what we called "The ITAR Dump".
That is publishing specs and most everything that we could about the
satellites we were working on to be openly available in order to take it
out from under ITAR.

Another point worth making, and that I have personally seen, is that
sometimes secrets are necessary.  For example: We might be asked by a
university partner not to talk about some part of the experiment they want
to fly with us, so we do not talk; otherwise we could not fly the
experiment (and lose the launch opportunity this experiment afforded us).
We are told by our launch provider not to talk about dates and other things
regarding the launch, so we don't (or we don't get the launch--or perhaps
we find it harder to get the next one).  Some contacts that we make may be
willing to do really good things for AMSAT, but not if we talk about it
before they are ready for us to do so.

No one I know (and people I know include all the directors, the officers,
and all but one of the candidates) would be unhappy to reduce secretiveness
and especially to avoid ITAR, but nearly every choice we make is a tradeoff
that requires discussion.

Perhaps AMSAT is working under internal procedures relating to ITAR that
are outdated, especially given the law change and the many resulting rule
changes in the past 5 years.  If there is a path to fewer onerous
restrictions, that would be great.  Working together might lead us to that
path.

What we CAN NOT do is to ignore our previously-undertaken obligations.
NDAs are still in force.  Some previous work may still fall under
ITAR/EAR.  ITAR penalties are sufficiently draconian that we must step
carefully.  Slow and careful is frustrating.  However, no matter who gets
elected, infighing only slows things down.

I beg the newer directors to back off a bit.  I beg the longer term
directors to look for a way to work with the newer ones.  And above all, I
beg ALL of you to calm down, look within yourselves for mistakes you have
made in dealing with each other (surely no one is perfect), take ownership
for your mistakes, apologize for what you need to and vow TO YOURSELF AND
EACH OTHER that you will do better.

That is a difficult ask, I understand.  Trust has been badly battered.
Perhaps you need a professional mediator (and, while no expert myself, I
know who to ask for recommendations if you need them). What I *know* is
that fighting will not help.  Working together does not mean agreeing on
everything.  It only means finding SOME things you agree on (satellites in
HEO?) and agreeing to listen to each other.  Maybe calling each other by
your first names is a start?

I look forward to more light and less heat.

Thanks for reading...

73,

Burns WB1FJ

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 16 21:30:20 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 14:30:20 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] BOD meetings
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2WPugdyQzqN2aOm3Yw3tpLeXgYGLsjF6h1UgnLVdtX-Pg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
	<MWHPR04MB37425EA715C9F36BA52C2BA8DC7F0@MWHPR04MB3742.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
	<DM5PR22MB08253AB6D0801ECBC044BB37877F0@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
	<CACvjz2V0n85+4RN9BMbdCgTgSi66tpJgYSKEG37958YX+8E15Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1626618660.2822943.1594928370156@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CACvjz2WPugdyQzqN2aOm3Yw3tpLeXgYGLsjF6h1UgnLVdtX-Pg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9732ab1b-dab2-40d8-9f97-c50879ce8b83@yahoo.com>

IMHO, remote BOD meetings are quite easy to hold now with advent of Zoom. Oops, they've been easy to hold for years with an ancient technology platform called Skype. Who knew?

501(c)(3) rules call for a minimum of 1 BOD meeting/year. An org that ignores that rule can lose their non-profit status. A good non-profit, and corporate, practice is to have 12/year.

Time to move into the 21ST century

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 16, 2020, 14:18, at 14:18, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>That is incorrect.
>
>Ignored email is simply not a substitute for a board meeting.
>
>Board meetings must either be called by three board members, or called
>by
>the President. Two of us have patiently repeated the call for regular
>meetings. These requests have been ignored.
>
>Neither of the two Presidents we've had this year have called regular
>board
>meetings. Clayton called one in March, and like I said, it went well,
>and
>was supposed to be the start of a regular schedule. Nothing heard since
>then, which is a disappointment.
>
>This problem started in September 2019. I think Patrick and I have been
>very, very patient with this.
>
>At the 2019 annual meeting, Joe Spier, Mark Hammond, and Jerry Buxton
>spun
>quite the tale of how AMSAT board meetings were unproductive,
>unnecessary.
>Silly even. Everyone went along with this except Patrick and myself.
>
>Not having meetings is bad corporate practice. Others have pointed this
>out. There is no good reason not to have them. We'd be in such better
>shape
>with regular meetings and good decisions.
>
>It isn't too much to ask of the membership to please consider replacing
>people that block board meetings and refuse to meet, either because
>they
>are not capable of coming up with efficient agendas, or because they
>don't
>want to hear from anyone outside of their clique.
>
>-Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
>
>On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 1:39 PM Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB <
>amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> Wow,  I can't believe you hijacked this thread to continue to spread
>> misinformation and play the victim card.
>>
>> No one in AMSAT is stopping you from having Board Meetings, other
>than
>> yourselves.
>>
>> Part of being a leader is to build consensus and motivate those you
>work
>> with or under you.  When differing positions are present, you work
>towards
>> a compromised solution to allow the organization to move forward and
>grow.
>>
>> Did either you or Patrick reach across the aisle and ask one of the
>other
>> 5 Directors to join you in a call for a meeting?  As you said, you
>needed 3
>> Directors to call a meeting.  You already had 2. I really find it
>hard that
>> no one would join you, especiall when at least two of the votes you
>> disclosed were split 4-3.
>>
>> Does the meeting have to be conducted by teleconference?  The Board
>has a
>> mailing list, so a meeting could be conducted via email.  That same
>mailing
>> list could be used to discuss issues and develop a plan of action
>that
>> could then be acted upon.
>>
>> Does the Board have to hold a monthly meeting?  If not, how often?  I
>> notice that ORI, per their website, conducted 3 meetings in 2018 and
>only
>> one in 2019.  Is their work that much less important than AMSAT that
>the
>> Board needs to meet so infrequently?
>>
>> On that same website,
>> https://openresearch.institute/executive-board-meeting-minutes/  I
>see
>> that ORI conducts its board meetings via email.  Would that not
>answer the
>> question above.
>>
>> AMSAT Directors are elected by the members, and the Directors elect
>the
>> Officers (thank you for your vote, by the way).  You also have the
>right as
>> a Director to call for the dismissal of an officer when they do not
>perform
>> to standard. To my knowledge you and Patrick have made not such call,
>yet
>> you continually continue to berate AMSAT Officers and fellow
>Directors in
>> public and in private.
>>
>> Let's be honest. The only way you can get what you want is to take
>control
>> of AMSAT.  That's not leadership.
>>
>> Enough of the political spin and outright lies.  Let us do our job
>and you
>> and Patrick do your.
>>
>> Robert, KE4AL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, July 16, 2020, 12:51:54 PM CDT, Michelle Thompson via
>> AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> It is not fair to say "you guys are AMSAT" (only guys?), when so many
>of us
>> for so long have proposed things to officers that are ignored or
>rejected
>> without cause.
>>
>> Asking the customer to fix the problem means that current leadership
>> doesn't know what to do.
>>
>> Some of us have been prevented from even having access to
>communications.
>>
>> Patrick Stoddard and I were denied access to the BoD email archive
>for many
>> months.
>>
>> With no board meetings, by definition there is no direction or
>oversight
>> for IT. It's run completely by officers without any input from anyone
>> elected by the membership.
>>
>> Joe KM1P is a hero. He has served and produced excellent work, under
>trying
>> conditions, for a long time. He does this out of generosity and does
>this
>> with care.
>>
>> So, yes, we should speak up for what we want and yes, "we are AMSAT".
>>
>> Please speak up. But also vote for a functional board that will help
>> volunteers like Joe have an easier job, support what needs to be done
>to
>> modernize AMSAT-BB, and will have his back.
>>
>> Volunteers like Joe will get that from Patrick and myself. We need
>more on
>> the board to make this happen.
>>
>> Please consider voting for Bob McGwier, Howie DeFelice, and Jeff
>Johns.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> -Michelle W5NYV
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>> Subscription settings:
>https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From bruce at perens.com  Thu Jul 16 21:48:14 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 14:48:14 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Confidentiality vs. Transparency
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2WPugdyQzqN2aOm3Yw3tpLeXgYGLsjF6h1UgnLVdtX-Pg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
	<MWHPR04MB37425EA715C9F36BA52C2BA8DC7F0@MWHPR04MB3742.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
	<DM5PR22MB08253AB6D0801ECBC044BB37877F0@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
	<CACvjz2V0n85+4RN9BMbdCgTgSi66tpJgYSKEG37958YX+8E15Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1626618660.2822943.1594928370156@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CACvjz2WPugdyQzqN2aOm3Yw3tpLeXgYGLsjF6h1UgnLVdtX-Pg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOswijwkv1YuXa8q_A_Xv9B_qZ6Nrz8L=ksqs3LPzSY4bQ@mail.gmail.com>

What Michelle reports reminds me very much of the recent Confidentiality
versus Transparency debacle at ARRL. They censured one of their own board
members just as Patrick and Michelle have been censured. And it was all
about keeping things away from the membership, which of course brought the
membership up in arms, and it originated in bad advice from corporate
attorneys.

The stars aligned for the confidentiality bloc to lose its majority in one
election. I don't believe that anyone is saying we should go back to the
old ARRL.

From bruce at perens.com  Thu Jul 16 22:09:16 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 15:09:16 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Working together
In-Reply-To: <CABX7KxXvgTawmoS9zqsDXsjS08NEST9sSwp3AeMH805WKuUN1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABX7KxXvgTawmoS9zqsDXsjS08NEST9sSwp3AeMH805WKuUN1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOtiUuqugvTrkUOOL4QXssGBqx=m_b_7vPi1NNqY14jD1w@mail.gmail.com>

Just to make sure we're under the right assumptions: NDAs about launch
schedules aren't really going to get us in trouble about ITAR, you can give
your international team a ready-by date and leave it at that. Information
about ground support equipment potentially under ITAR, and sometimes that
will have to be compartmentalised. You will notice, however, that SpaceX
makes their user guide public . This may indeed be because of ITAR. And
these days most of what we launch comes out of a p-pod, which is a public
standard and should not be subject to NDA.

It would really help to know what the partnerships are. We sort of wave our
hands about them without discussing what they are, whether they are still
useful, and what alternatives we might have to them. For example, at this
late date it might be better to replace a partnership with AHA with an
entirely open gate-array design which would not require NDAs. We have Open
Cores and many similar open projects to partner with in that case.

And may I suggest that monthly board meetings might be a good way for the
directors to start working together?

Thanks

Bruce



On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 2:52 PM Burns Fisher via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am Burns Fisher, WB1FJ.  I'm a retired software engineer who is currently
> writing software as a volunteer for AMSAT.  In my career, I have written
> software that is not open source, as well as that which is--I don't have an
> ax to grind in that fight.  I am not going to endorse or recommend against
> any candidates in this mail, but I do want to bring to light a few items
> that I don't believe have been discussed and to make a suggestion.
>
> One thing that I have not heard in the discussion is that "not fully
> open-source" is different from "proprietary".  I am NOT and never have been
> an AMSAT director nor a policy decision maker in any form, but in my 10
> years writing software for AMSAT satellites, I have had to deal with
> ITAR.  I
> have been told to talk about things with non-US persons only after they are
> published, for example.  However, I have NEVER seen or been told that it
> was the intent of anyone in AMSAT to keep any information private forever.
> We are encouraged to publish work that we are doing in the AMSAT Journal
> and to talk and write about it for the Symposium (and I have done so).   In
> addition, if you look in the back of your AMSAT Symposium Proceedings for
> the past 8 or more years, you will find what we called "The ITAR Dump".
> That is publishing specs and most everything that we could about the
> satellites we were working on to be openly available in order to take it
> out from under ITAR.
>
> Another point worth making, and that I have personally seen, is that
> sometimes secrets are necessary.  For example: We might be asked by a
> university partner not to talk about some part of the experiment they want
> to fly with us, so we do not talk; otherwise we could not fly the
> experiment (and lose the launch opportunity this experiment afforded us).
> We are told by our launch provider not to talk about dates and other things
> regarding the launch, so we don't (or we don't get the launch--or perhaps
> we find it harder to get the next one).  Some contacts that we make may be
> willing to do really good things for AMSAT, but not if we talk about it
> before they are ready for us to do so.
>
> No one I know (and people I know include all the directors, the officers,
> and all but one of the candidates) would be unhappy to reduce secretiveness
> and especially to avoid ITAR, but nearly every choice we make is a tradeoff
> that requires discussion.
>
> Perhaps AMSAT is working under internal procedures relating to ITAR that
> are outdated, especially given the law change and the many resulting rule
> changes in the past 5 years.  If there is a path to fewer onerous
> restrictions, that would be great.  Working together might lead us to that
> path.
>
> What we CAN NOT do is to ignore our previously-undertaken obligations.
> NDAs are still in force.  Some previous work may still fall under
> ITAR/EAR.  ITAR penalties are sufficiently draconian that we must step
> carefully.  Slow and careful is frustrating.  However, no matter who gets
> elected, infighing only slows things down.
>
> I beg the newer directors to back off a bit.  I beg the longer term
> directors to look for a way to work with the newer ones.  And above all, I
> beg ALL of you to calm down, look within yourselves for mistakes you have
> made in dealing with each other (surely no one is perfect), take ownership
> for your mistakes, apologize for what you need to and vow TO YOURSELF AND
> EACH OTHER that you will do better.
>
> That is a difficult ask, I understand.  Trust has been badly battered.
> Perhaps you need a professional mediator (and, while no expert myself, I
> know who to ask for recommendations if you need them). What I *know* is
> that fighting will not help.  Working together does not mean agreeing on
> everything.  It only means finding SOME things you agree on (satellites in
> HEO?) and agreeing to listen to each other.  Maybe calling each other by
> your first names is a start?
>
> I look forward to more light and less heat.
>
> Thanks for reading...
>
> 73,
>
> Burns WB1FJ
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From karn at ka9q.net  Thu Jul 16 22:44:02 2020
From: karn at ka9q.net (Phil Karn)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 15:44:02 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Mount Carmel HS ARC marine buoy deployed and transmitting
Message-ID: <6da1d733-4e93-c830-9a53-ec7b9edcb965@ka9q.net>

Over the past year, Randy, KQ6RS and I have mentored the MCHSARC in
designing and constructing a simple marine buoy that was deployed from
the R/V Sally Ride this morning about 700 km off the coast of southern
California. It is up and transmitting WSPR on 20m using the callsign
KQ6RS, and is being received all over the US and into Canada and Brazil.

The electronics is the 20m WSPR version of the WB8ELK "pico tracker"
that has been flown quite a few times (including by us) on long duration
balloons. We removed the solar panels and substituted 21 ordinary
alkaline D-cells wired to supply 4.5V. We estimate battery lifetime will
be 6 months.

The basic design was inspired by Bob, WB4APR, at the US Naval Academy.
Physically, the buoy is just a 5' section of 4" PVC pipe, ballasted at
one end to float vertically in the water. The top is closed by a sewer
pressure test plug I found at Home Depot; it has a bolt in the center
that acts as a convenient feed-through and mounting point for the
antenna, a stainless steel CB whip with a matching network designed,
tested and carefully tuned by Randy. We use the sea as a counterpoise,
but to avoid direct metal/seawater contact we lined the inside of the
pipe with copper tape to form a capacitive connection. We probably spent
too much time on this; Randy even modeled the electrical fields in the
seawater with a professional RF analysis package.

In our first flotation tests in Randy's swimming pool we found that the
ballasted pipe, by itself, was remarkably stable in pitch, roll, sway
and surge but oscillated a lot in heave (up and down). To damp this
Randy added cross arms at the water line to add drag in the vertical
direction. (It wasn't our intent to mimic a religious icon but that's
where the physics went.) Tuning the antenna required sea water, so Randy
did it from a dock on Mission Bay here in San Diego.

We tried to make this thing as rugged as we could. (My favorite saying
to the students was that the sea *always* wins in the end, but we can
delay that long enough to be useful.) Everything inside is held in place
with epoxy or polyurethane foam. Randy reinforced the sewer plug with a
PVC end cap with a hole cut in the center. Although the antenna is
stainless steel, Randy covered it with a type of heatshrink with a
waterproofing compound inside. Activation was by removing an external
magnet placed over a parallel pair of normally closed magnetic reed
switches. (Using two instead of one was my idea.) We even argued how to
guard against the crew forgetting to remove the magnet before
deployment. Randy found some adhesive that would dissolve and let the
magnet fall away; I suggested a big REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT tag and a float
that would pull it away if it was tossed into the water.

That left the problem of deployment. We couldn't just drop it close to
the coast because it would quickly wash back up on the beach. We needed
a boat ride. We were originally going on a NOAA vessel in April, but
that trip was cancelled due to the pandemic. Randy secured a trip on the
R/V Sally Ride, a research ship operated by Scripps Institute of
Oceanography and home ported here in San Diego.

This map shows the "lawn mowing" pattern they follow to measure and
sample sea water off southern California. We were deployed early this
morning at the most southwestern point shown here:

https://calcofi.org/cruises/2020-cruises/calcofi-2007sr.html

First report was at 12:52:30 UTC this morning from 29 51.25N, 123
37.50W. That's grid square CL89eu, which I figure is pretty rare for
grid hunters. The current carried us east into CL89fu at 20:32:30. This
is a little surprising since we thought the currents in that area are to
the southwest. But that's why you do science!

You can track us on aprs.fi here:

https://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FKQ6RS-1&others=1&timerange=604800&tail=3600

We also show up on wsprnet.org

http://wsprnet.org/drupal/wsprnet/map

Because of the funky way Bill encodes position in WSPR (which was never
designed for this), you'll see some weird-looking callsigns (like
0W7NFU) in addition to KQ6RS.

This was our first buoy, just to get our feet wet (ha ha). Now to think
about what we want to put in our *second* buoy. Two-way links, satellite
tracking, sensors, the works. But remember the "second system" effect...

73, Phil





From pconver at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 23:13:08 2020
From: pconver at gmail.com (Pedro Converso)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 20:13:08 -0300
Subject: [amsat-bb] Mount Carmel HS ARC marine buoy deployed and
	transmitting
In-Reply-To: <6da1d733-4e93-c830-9a53-ec7b9edcb965@ka9q.net>
References: <6da1d733-4e93-c830-9a53-ec7b9edcb965@ka9q.net>
Message-ID: <CANTZqK=7XnQk7kxz4iuGkANNznRPHX+e4xw9miSj73Q3jWjfMQ@mail.gmail.com>

Congrats Randy ! and thanks Phil for information.

Wishing good luck ! Buoy already copied by 148 stations !!

Can see stations copying and trajectory using:

http://lu7aa.org.ar/buoy.asp?other=KQ6RS (slow but lots of info)

73, lu7abf, Pedro

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 16 23:20:02 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (GEO Badger)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 23:20:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Mount Carmel HS ARC marine buoy deployed and
 transmitting
In-Reply-To: <6da1d733-4e93-c830-9a53-ec7b9edcb965@ka9q.net>
References: <6da1d733-4e93-c830-9a53-ec7b9edcb965@ka9q.net>
Message-ID: <2142765169.2935342.1594941602469@mail.yahoo.com>

Very cool Phil.. Thanks for sharing that.
As an ex-employee of MBARI, I can tell you that we threw a lot of stuff in the water that took more development time and cost than yours with similar results.
---? 
 Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side??
73 de W3AB/GEO ??? 

 http://www.w3ab.org

You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out". 

    On Thursday, July 16, 2020, 03:48:27 PM PDT, Phil Karn via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 Over the past year, Randy, KQ6RS and I have mentored the MCHSARC in
designing and constructing a simple marine buoy that was deployed from
the R/V Sally Ride this morning about 700 km off the coast of southern
California. It is up and transmitting WSPR on 20m using the callsign
KQ6RS, and is being received all over the US and into Canada and Brazil.

The electronics is the 20m WSPR version of the WB8ELK "pico tracker"
that has been flown quite a few times (including by us) on long duration
balloons. We removed the solar panels and substituted 21 ordinary
alkaline D-cells wired to supply 4.5V. We estimate battery lifetime will
be 6 months.

The basic design was inspired by Bob, WB4APR, at the US Naval Academy.
Physically, the buoy is just a 5' section of 4" PVC pipe, ballasted at
one end to float vertically in the water. The top is closed by a sewer
pressure test plug I found at Home Depot; it has a bolt in the center
that acts as a convenient feed-through and mounting point for the
antenna, a stainless steel CB whip with a matching network designed,
tested and carefully tuned by Randy. We use the sea as a counterpoise,
but to avoid direct metal/seawater contact we lined the inside of the
pipe with copper tape to form a capacitive connection. We probably spent
too much time on this; Randy even modeled the electrical fields in the
seawater with a professional RF analysis package.

In our first flotation tests in Randy's swimming pool we found that the
ballasted pipe, by itself, was remarkably stable in pitch, roll, sway
and surge but oscillated a lot in heave (up and down). To damp this
Randy added cross arms at the water line to add drag in the vertical
direction. (It wasn't our intent to mimic a religious icon but that's
where the physics went.) Tuning the antenna required sea water, so Randy
did it from a dock on Mission Bay here in San Diego.

We tried to make this thing as rugged as we could. (My favorite saying
to the students was that the sea *always* wins in the end, but we can
delay that long enough to be useful.) Everything inside is held in place
with epoxy or polyurethane foam. Randy reinforced the sewer plug with a
PVC end cap with a hole cut in the center. Although the antenna is
stainless steel, Randy covered it with a type of heatshrink with a
waterproofing compound inside. Activation was by removing an external
magnet placed over a parallel pair of normally closed magnetic reed
switches. (Using two instead of one was my idea.) We even argued how to
guard against the crew forgetting to remove the magnet before
deployment. Randy found some adhesive that would dissolve and let the
magnet fall away; I suggested a big REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT tag and a float
that would pull it away if it was tossed into the water.

That left the problem of deployment. We couldn't just drop it close to
the coast because it would quickly wash back up on the beach. We needed
a boat ride. We were originally going on a NOAA vessel in April, but
that trip was cancelled due to the pandemic. Randy secured a trip on the
R/V Sally Ride, a research ship operated by Scripps Institute of
Oceanography and home ported here in San Diego.

This map shows the "lawn mowing" pattern they follow to measure and
sample sea water off southern California. We were deployed early this
morning at the most southwestern point shown here:

https://calcofi.org/cruises/2020-cruises/calcofi-2007sr.html

First report was at 12:52:30 UTC this morning from 29 51.25N, 123
37.50W. That's grid square CL89eu, which I figure is pretty rare for
grid hunters. The current carried us east into CL89fu at 20:32:30. This
is a little surprising since we thought the currents in that area are to
the southwest. But that's why you do science!

You can track us on aprs.fi here:

https://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FKQ6RS-1&others=1&timerange=604800&tail=3600

We also show up on wsprnet.org

http://wsprnet.org/drupal/wsprnet/map

Because of the funky way Bill encodes position in WSPR (which was never
designed for this), you'll see some weird-looking callsigns (like
0W7NFU) in addition to KQ6RS.

This was our first buoy, just to get our feet wet (ha ha). Now to think
about what we want to put in our *second* buoy. Two-way links, satellite
tracking, sensors, the works. But remember the "second system" effect...

73, Phil




_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From almetco at comcast.net  Thu Jul 16 23:24:51 2020
From: almetco at comcast.net (Greg)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 19:24:51 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Mount Carmel HS ARC marine buoy deployed and
 transmitting
In-Reply-To: <2142765169.2935342.1594941602469@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <6da1d733-4e93-c830-9a53-ec7b9edcb965@ka9q.net>
	<2142765169.2935342.1594941602469@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AE41DF4E-D798-4EBF-A1A8-A135A78C4A2B@comcast.net>

Great idea and thanks for sharing the technical details.

Greg
N3MVF

On Jul 16, 2020, at 7:20 PM, GEO Badger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

Very cool Phil.. Thanks for sharing that.
As an ex-employee of MBARI, I can tell you that we threw a lot of stuff in the water that took more development time and cost than yours with similar results.
---  
Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side  
73 de W3AB/GEO     

http://www.w3ab.org

You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out". 

   On Thursday, July 16, 2020, 03:48:27 PM PDT, Phil Karn via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  

Over the past year, Randy, KQ6RS and I have mentored the MCHSARC in
designing and constructing a simple marine buoy that was deployed from
the R/V Sally Ride this morning about 700 km off the coast of southern
California. It is up and transmitting WSPR on 20m using the callsign
KQ6RS, and is being received all over the US and into Canada and Brazil.

The electronics is the 20m WSPR version of the WB8ELK "pico tracker"
that has been flown quite a few times (including by us) on long duration
balloons. We removed the solar panels and substituted 21 ordinary
alkaline D-cells wired to supply 4.5V. We estimate battery lifetime will
be 6 months.

The basic design was inspired by Bob, WB4APR, at the US Naval Academy.
Physically, the buoy is just a 5' section of 4" PVC pipe, ballasted at
one end to float vertically in the water. The top is closed by a sewer
pressure test plug I found at Home Depot; it has a bolt in the center
that acts as a convenient feed-through and mounting point for the
antenna, a stainless steel CB whip with a matching network designed,
tested and carefully tuned by Randy. We use the sea as a counterpoise,
but to avoid direct metal/seawater contact we lined the inside of the
pipe with copper tape to form a capacitive connection. We probably spent
too much time on this; Randy even modeled the electrical fields in the
seawater with a professional RF analysis package.

In our first flotation tests in Randy's swimming pool we found that the
ballasted pipe, by itself, was remarkably stable in pitch, roll, sway
and surge but oscillated a lot in heave (up and down). To damp this
Randy added cross arms at the water line to add drag in the vertical
direction. (It wasn't our intent to mimic a religious icon but that's
where the physics went.) Tuning the antenna required sea water, so Randy
did it from a dock on Mission Bay here in San Diego.

We tried to make this thing as rugged as we could. (My favorite saying
to the students was that the sea *always* wins in the end, but we can
delay that long enough to be useful.) Everything inside is held in place
with epoxy or polyurethane foam. Randy reinforced the sewer plug with a
PVC end cap with a hole cut in the center. Although the antenna is
stainless steel, Randy covered it with a type of heatshrink with a
waterproofing compound inside. Activation was by removing an external
magnet placed over a parallel pair of normally closed magnetic reed
switches. (Using two instead of one was my idea.) We even argued how to
guard against the crew forgetting to remove the magnet before
deployment. Randy found some adhesive that would dissolve and let the
magnet fall away; I suggested a big REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT tag and a float
that would pull it away if it was tossed into the water.

That left the problem of deployment. We couldn't just drop it close to
the coast because it would quickly wash back up on the beach. We needed
a boat ride. We were originally going on a NOAA vessel in April, but
that trip was cancelled due to the pandemic. Randy secured a trip on the
R/V Sally Ride, a research ship operated by Scripps Institute of
Oceanography and home ported here in San Diego.

This map shows the "lawn mowing" pattern they follow to measure and
sample sea water off southern California. We were deployed early this
morning at the most southwestern point shown here:

https://calcofi.org/cruises/2020-cruises/calcofi-2007sr.html

First report was at 12:52:30 UTC this morning from 29 51.25N, 123
37.50W. That's grid square CL89eu, which I figure is pretty rare for
grid hunters. The current carried us east into CL89fu at 20:32:30. This
is a little surprising since we thought the currents in that area are to
the southwest. But that's why you do science!

You can track us on aprs.fi here:

https://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FKQ6RS-1&others=1&timerange=604800&tail=3600

We also show up on wsprnet.org

http://wsprnet.org/drupal/wsprnet/map

Because of the funky way Bill encodes position in WSPR (which was never
designed for this), you'll see some weird-looking callsigns (like
0W7NFU) in addition to KQ6RS.

This was our first buoy, just to get our feet wet (ha ha). Now to think
about what we want to put in our *second* buoy. Two-way links, satellite
tracking, sensors, the works. But remember the "second system" effect...

73, Phil




_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From mccardelm at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 23:48:10 2020
From: mccardelm at gmail.com (E.Mike McCardel)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 19:48:10 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Working together
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOtiUuqugvTrkUOOL4QXssGBqx=m_b_7vPi1NNqY14jD1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK2MWOtiUuqugvTrkUOOL4QXssGBqx=m_b_7vPi1NNqY14jD1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C0BC6464-EE2F-4AC6-9A6F-6DD1BC5D5F2E@gmail.com>

Not sure of the point here, unless it?s just to confuse or spin Burns? point, which I found eloquent.
? NDAs about launch
schedules aren't really going to get us in trouble about ITAR?
Duh!
Breaking ITAR rules will only get you in trouble with the government.
Breaking NDAs only gets you in trouble with the working partner which whom you signed it.

My suggestion in all of this is isolate the WE / THEY arguments in favor of examining each candidate on their own merit. I judge that on both sides of this argument that ?Party? lines that are being drawn inflates or deflates some individuals credentials to serve well.

Three things I have learned in my many years of dealing with people in general and boards specifically is that
1. those who dost protest the most have agendas That aren?t always clear.
2. People with agendas seldom make good board members.
3. Those who don?t have their own merits to stand  on tend to make alliances that benefit only themselves.

What is best for AMSAT is not voting for a ticket, but rather voting for the best people, period.

73, 

EMike McCardel, AA8EM
Past Senior Editor AMSAT News Service
Past AMSAT-NA VP Educational Relations
Former ARRL, Ohio Section, Affiliated Club Coordinator


> On Jul 16, 2020, at 6:18 PM, Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> NDAs about launch
> schedules aren't really going to get us in trouble about ITAR

From bruce at perens.com  Fri Jul 17 00:12:26 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 17:12:26 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Working together
In-Reply-To: <C0BC6464-EE2F-4AC6-9A6F-6DD1BC5D5F2E@gmail.com>
References: <CAK2MWOtiUuqugvTrkUOOL4QXssGBqx=m_b_7vPi1NNqY14jD1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<C0BC6464-EE2F-4AC6-9A6F-6DD1BC5D5F2E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOsLGK-5vZVdTz0P+gRd8qB5tikaTmfaVRrOuy1+P1xK8w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 4:48 PM E.Mike McCardel <mccardelm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Not sure of the point here, unless it?s just to confuse or spin Burns?
> point, which I found eloquent.
> ? NDAs about launch
> schedules aren't really going to get us in trouble about ITAR?
> Duh!
>

 Perhaps if I went through the example a little more thoroughly?

You partner with ESA to do your launch. ESA does not want to widely
distribute their launch availability because they are sending up some
secret payloads. So, they schedule you No Earlier Than February 1, 2022,
but they ask that you keep that date private.

You tell your build team that you need the satellite by November 1, 2021.
You will use the rest of the time for integration, etc. You really only
need two months for integration. You make this date public. You have not
violated the NDA.

    Thanks

    Bruce

From kb2ysi at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 00:12:50 2020
From: kb2ysi at gmail.com (Don KB2YSI)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 20:12:50 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Mount Carmel HS ARC marine buoy deployed and
	transmitting
In-Reply-To: <AE41DF4E-D798-4EBF-A1A8-A135A78C4A2B@comcast.net>
References: <6da1d733-4e93-c830-9a53-ec7b9edcb965@ka9q.net>
	<2142765169.2935342.1594941602469@mail.yahoo.com>
	<AE41DF4E-D798-4EBF-A1A8-A135A78C4A2B@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAAJiE8NKj0JY-fP8XTKZvabepk5vTRi2o6oO6hch5r8s+4kj2A@mail.gmail.com>

That is a really cool sounding project and thank you for sharing your
process!

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 19:50 Greg via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Great idea and thanks for sharing the technical details.
>
> Greg
> N3MVF
>
> On Jul 16, 2020, at 7:20 PM, GEO Badger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
> Very cool Phil.. Thanks for sharing that.
> As an ex-employee of MBARI, I can tell you that we threw a lot of stuff in
> the water that took more development time and cost than yours with similar
> results.
> ---
> Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side
> 73 de W3AB/GEO
>
> http://www.w3ab.org
>
> You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out".
>
>    On Thursday, July 16, 2020, 03:48:27 PM PDT, Phil Karn via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Over the past year, Randy, KQ6RS and I have mentored the MCHSARC in
> designing and constructing a simple marine buoy that was deployed from
> the R/V Sally Ride this morning about 700 km off the coast of southern
> California. It is up and transmitting WSPR on 20m using the callsign
> KQ6RS, and is being received all over the US and into Canada and Brazil.
>
> The electronics is the 20m WSPR version of the WB8ELK "pico tracker"
> that has been flown quite a few times (including by us) on long duration
> balloons. We removed the solar panels and substituted 21 ordinary
> alkaline D-cells wired to supply 4.5V. We estimate battery lifetime will
> be 6 months.
>
> The basic design was inspired by Bob, WB4APR, at the US Naval Academy.
> Physically, the buoy is just a 5' section of 4" PVC pipe, ballasted at
> one end to float vertically in the water. The top is closed by a sewer
> pressure test plug I found at Home Depot; it has a bolt in the center
> that acts as a convenient feed-through and mounting point for the
> antenna, a stainless steel CB whip with a matching network designed,
> tested and carefully tuned by Randy. We use the sea as a counterpoise,
> but to avoid direct metal/seawater contact we lined the inside of the
> pipe with copper tape to form a capacitive connection. We probably spent
> too much time on this; Randy even modeled the electrical fields in the
> seawater with a professional RF analysis package.
>
> In our first flotation tests in Randy's swimming pool we found that the
> ballasted pipe, by itself, was remarkably stable in pitch, roll, sway
> and surge but oscillated a lot in heave (up and down). To damp this
> Randy added cross arms at the water line to add drag in the vertical
> direction. (It wasn't our intent to mimic a religious icon but that's
> where the physics went.) Tuning the antenna required sea water, so Randy
> did it from a dock on Mission Bay here in San Diego.
>
> We tried to make this thing as rugged as we could. (My favorite saying
> to the students was that the sea *always* wins in the end, but we can
> delay that long enough to be useful.) Everything inside is held in place
> with epoxy or polyurethane foam. Randy reinforced the sewer plug with a
> PVC end cap with a hole cut in the center. Although the antenna is
> stainless steel, Randy covered it with a type of heatshrink with a
> waterproofing compound inside. Activation was by removing an external
> magnet placed over a parallel pair of normally closed magnetic reed
> switches. (Using two instead of one was my idea.) We even argued how to
> guard against the crew forgetting to remove the magnet before
> deployment. Randy found some adhesive that would dissolve and let the
> magnet fall away; I suggested a big REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT tag and a float
> that would pull it away if it was tossed into the water.
>
> That left the problem of deployment. We couldn't just drop it close to
> the coast because it would quickly wash back up on the beach. We needed
> a boat ride. We were originally going on a NOAA vessel in April, but
> that trip was cancelled due to the pandemic. Randy secured a trip on the
> R/V Sally Ride, a research ship operated by Scripps Institute of
> Oceanography and home ported here in San Diego.
>
> This map shows the "lawn mowing" pattern they follow to measure and
> sample sea water off southern California. We were deployed early this
> morning at the most southwestern point shown here:
>
> https://calcofi.org/cruises/2020-cruises/calcofi-2007sr.html
>
> First report was at 12:52:30 UTC this morning from 29 51.25N, 123
> 37.50W. That's grid square CL89eu, which I figure is pretty rare for
> grid hunters. The current carried us east into CL89fu at 20:32:30. This
> is a little surprising since we thought the currents in that area are to
> the southwest. But that's why you do science!
>
> You can track us on aprs.fi here:
>
> https://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FKQ6RS-1&others=1&timerange=604800&tail=3600
>
> We also show up on wsprnet.org
>
> http://wsprnet.org/drupal/wsprnet/map
>
> Because of the funky way Bill encodes position in WSPR (which was never
> designed for this), you'll see some weird-looking callsigns (like
> 0W7NFU) in addition to KQ6RS.
>
> This was our first buoy, just to get our feet wet (ha ha). Now to think
> about what we want to put in our *second* buoy. Two-way links, satellite
> tracking, sensors, the works. But remember the "second system" effect...
>
> 73, Phil
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From bruce at perens.com  Fri Jul 17 00:21:13 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 17:21:13 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Call-to-action about the election
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOsEZwS5doDyxGi-kgNW6kF=T4byJi+ocJKDPmEK0q6A_A@mail.gmail.com>

I have published this call-to-action about the election. So far Michelle
and I are signatories, please tell me if you would like to add your name.

http://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html

    Thanks

    Bruce

-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)

From karn at ka9q.net  Fri Jul 17 01:24:00 2020
From: karn at ka9q.net (Phil Karn)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 18:24:00 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Mount Carmel HS ARC marine buoy deployed and
 transmitting
In-Reply-To: <2142765169.2935342.1594941602469@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <6da1d733-4e93-c830-9a53-ec7b9edcb965@ka9q.net>
	<2142765169.2935342.1594941602469@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <612b59d8-1c42-d06c-97b0-45d5d15c021d@ka9q.net>

On 7/16/20 16:20, GEO Badger wrote:
> Very cool Phil.. Thanks for sharing that.
>
> As an ex-employee of MBARI, I can tell you that we threw a lot of
> stuff in the water that took more development time and cost than yours
> with similar results.
>
Well, it remains to be seen just how long we'll last. I think we
probably over-engineered this thing, and I wouldn't be surprised if it
continues to float long after the batteries die. We did mark it to give
us a chance of getting it back should it be discovered on a beach someday.

We're already tossing around lots of ideas for a follow-on. Beware the
second system effect...

Phil





From aj9n at aol.com  Fri Jul 17 02:09:59 2020
From: aj9n at aol.com (aj9n at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 02:09:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-07-17 02:00
	UTC
References: <1746757513.2101949.1594951799842.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1746757513.2101949.1594951799842@mail.yahoo.com>


Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-07-17 02:00 UTC

?

Quick list of scheduled contacts and events:

?

GAGARIN FROM SPACE Performing an amateur radio session with the 9th International Aerospace School.? Ufa, U.N. Sultanova Republic of Bashkortostan, Russia, direct via RZ9WWB (***)

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be RS?ISS 

The scheduled astronaut is Ivan Vagner 

Contact is go for Fri 2020-07-17 19:08 UTC (***)

?

########################################################################################################################################

A multi-point telebridge contact means that each student will be on the telebridge from their own home.

*************************************************

?

ARISS is very aware of the impact that COVID-19 is having on schools and the public in general.? As such, we may have last minute cancellations or postponements of school contacts.? As always, I will try to provide everyone with near-real-time updates.? 

?

The following schools have now been postponed or cancelled due to COVID-19:? 

?

Postponed:

No new schools

?

Cancelled:

No new schools

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

?

Watch for future COVID-19 related announcements here also.

?

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

?

Note, all times are approximate. ?It is recommended that you do your own 

orbital prediction?or start listening about 10 minutes before the listed 

time. 

All dates and times listed follow International Standard ISO 8601 date and 

time format YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS

?

The complete schedule page has been updated as of?2020-07-17 02:00 UTC. (***)

Here you will find a listing of all scheduled?school contacts, and 

questions, other ISS related websites, IRLP and Echolink websites, and 

instructions for any contact that may be streamed live.

?

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf 

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.txt 

?

?

The successful school list has been updated as of 2020-07-10 16:30 UTC.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/Successful_ARISS_schools.rtf 

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

?

Message to US Educators

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States) 

?

The Proposal Window of February 1, 2020 to March 31, 2020 has now closed.

?

For future proposal information and more details such as expectations, proposal guidelines and proposal form, and dates and times of Information Webinars, go to www.ariss.org.

?

Please direct any questions to?ariss.us.education at gmail.com.

?

About ARISS:

?

Amateur Radio on the International Space Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radio societies and the space agencies that support the International Space Station (ISS).? In the United States, sponsors are the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio Relay League (ARRL), the ISS National Lab and National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEAM) topics by organizing scheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS and students in classrooms or public forms. Before and during these radio contacts, students, educators, parents, and communities learn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. For more information, see www.ariss.org.

?

********************************************************************************

ARISS Contact Applications (Europe, Africa and the Middle East)

?

Schools and Youth organizations in Europe, Africa and the Middle East interested in setting up an ARISS radio contact with an astronaut on board the International Space Station are invited to submit an application from September to October and from February to April.

Please refer to details and the application form at www.ariss-eu.org/school-contacts.? Applications should be addressed by email to:? school.selection.manager at ariss-eu.org

?

ARISS Contact Applications (Canada, Central and South America, Asia and Australia and Russia)

?

Organizations outside the United States can apply for an ARISS contact by filling out an application.? Please direct questions to the appropriate regional representative listed below. If your country is not specifically listed, send your questions to the nearest ARISS Region listed. If you are unsure which address to use, please send your question to the ARISS-Canada representative; they will forward your question to the appropriate coordinator.

?

For the application, go to:? https://www.ariss.org/ariss-application.html.

ARISS-Canada and the Americas, except USA: Steve McFarlane, VE3TBD email to: ve3tbd at gmail.com

ARISS-Japan, Asia, Pacific and Australia: Satoshi Yasuda, 7M3TJZ email to: ariss at iaru-r3.org, Japan Amateur Radio League (JARL) https://www.jarl.org/

ARISS-Russia: Soyuz Radioljubitelei Rossii (SRR) https://srr.ru/

?

?

******************************************************************************

ARISS is always glad to receive listener reports for the above contacts.? ARISS thanks everyone in advance for their assistance.? Feel free to send your reports to aj9n at amsat.org or aj9n at aol.com.

?

Listen for the ISS on the downlink of 145.8? MHz.

?

*******************************************************************************

?

All ARISS contacts are made via the Kenwood radio unless otherwise noted.

?

*******************************************************************************


Several of you have sent me emails asking about the RAC ARISS website and 
not being able to get in. ?That has now been changed to https://www.ariss.org/

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

****************************************************************************

Looking for something new to do?? How about receiving DATV from the ISS?? Please note that the HamTV system has been brought back to earth for troubleshooting.? Please monitor ARISS-EU or ARISS-ON for the very latest news on the troubleshooting efforts.? 

?

If interested, then please go to the ARISS-EU website for complete details.? Look for the buttons indicating Ham Video.???????????? 

?

http://www.ariss-eu.org/

?

If you need some assistance, ARISS mentor Kerry N6IZW, might be able to provide some insight.? Contact Kerry at kbanke at sbcglobal.net

?

?

The HamTV webpage:? https://www.amsat-on.be/hamtv-summary/

?

?

****************************************************************************
ARISS congratulations the following mentors who have now mentored over 100 schools: 

?

Francesco IK?WGF with 140

Satoshi 7M3TJZ with 138 

Sergey RV3DR with 133 

Gaston ON4WF with 123

?

****************************************************************************

The webpages listed below were all reviewed for accuracy. Out of date 

webpages were removed, and new ones have been added.? If there are additional 

ARISS websites I need to know about, please let me know.

?

?

?

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school events is 1391. 

Each school counts as 1 event.?????????????????????????????????? 

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school contacts is 1324.

Each contact may have multiple schools sharing the same time slot.

Total number of ARISS supported terrestrial contacts is 48. 

?

A complete year by year breakdown of the contacts may be found in the 

file.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf

?

Please feel free to contact me if more detailed statistics are needed.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



The following US states and entities have never had an ARISS contact:
South Dakota, Wyoming, American?Samoa, Guam, Northern Marianas Islands, and the Virgin Islands.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

?

QSL information may be found at:

https://www.ariss.org/qsl-cards.html

?

ISS callsigns: DP?ISS, IR?ISS, NA1SS, OR4ISS, RS?ISS

?

****************************************************************************



Frequency chart for packet, voice, and crossband repeater modes showing 

Doppler correction as of 2005-07-29 04:00 UTC

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/ISS_frequencies_and_Doppler_correction.rtf



Check out the Zoho reports of the ARISS contacts

?

https://reports.zoho.com/ZDBDataSheetView.cc?DBID=412218000000020415

****************************************************************************

?

Exp. 62 now on orbit 

Chris Cassidy KF5KDR

Anatoli Ivanishin

Ivan Vagner

?

SpaceX-Demo2 now on orbit 

Bob Behnken KE5GGX

Doug Hurley

?

****************************************************************************

73,

Charlie?Sufana AJ9N
One of the ARISS operation team mentors

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?



From dougfaunt at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 03:01:22 2020
From: dougfaunt at gmail.com (Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-717-1197)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 20:01:22 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Mount Carmel HS ARC marine buoy deployed and
	transmitting
Message-ID: <CAHirYAjfokD1Cqq5suPW5uEcWEKzbRVB2M4vhwLYUd0NcmZx_w@mail.gmail.com>

Cool.  If you want to get an even more remote deployment, get in touch
with the Sea Education Association, based in Woods Hole,
but the SSV Robert C. Seamans is in San Diego, last I heard, after a
transit from NZ.
The boat travels through almost deserted parts of the Pacific, doing
various science projects with college students on board,
as well as professional crew.  I sailed as mate on her a couple of
years ago, NZ to Tahiti.
pbrandon at sea.edu is president- tell her I suggested this.
73, doug

From karn at ka9q.net  Fri Jul 17 03:33:27 2020
From: karn at ka9q.net (Phil Karn)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 20:33:27 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Mount Carmel HS ARC marine buoy deployed and
 transmitting
In-Reply-To: <CAHirYAjfokD1Cqq5suPW5uEcWEKzbRVB2M4vhwLYUd0NcmZx_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHirYAjfokD1Cqq5suPW5uEcWEKzbRVB2M4vhwLYUd0NcmZx_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e2856e99-21c9-2990-1669-ee1baf8baa39@ka9q.net>

On 7/16/20 20:01, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-717-1197 wrote:
> Cool.  If you want to get an even more remote deployment, get in touch
> with the Sea Education Association, based in Woods Hole,
> but the SSV Robert C. Seamans is in San Diego, last I heard, after a
> transit from NZ.
> The boat travels through almost deserted parts of the Pacific, doing
> various science projects with college students on board,
> as well as professional crew.  I sailed as mate on her a couple of
> years ago, NZ to Tahiti.
> pbrandon at sea.edu is president- tell her I suggested this.
> 73, doug

Thanks Doug! I've passed this on to Randy and the other club members and
officers. i don't know when we'll have another buoy ready to go, but we
will definitely have one. We were just given a professional unit to do
whatever we want with, and it's got room for our own equipment and antennas.

73, Phil



From jeff30339 at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 04:54:13 2020
From: jeff30339 at gmail.com (Jeff Johns)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 23:54:13 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Board of Directors Candidate Statement
Message-ID: <AFD8C205-24F7-43A5-ADE3-471A159D40B0@gmail.com>

Hello. My name is Jeff Johns WE4B and, as you probably know by now, I am a candidate for a BoD position with AMSAT. 

I am not going to try to blind you with promises of HEO satellites in an attempt to gain your vote. We all want HEO but we need to get our house in order so that we can begin to reach higher in the sky. Until AMSAT can have regular, functional Board meetings we will never be able to have HEO spacecraft in orbit. 

Professionally, I have been successful in operations management and most specifically, operations management with a concentration in Continuous Improvement. I am a Six Sigma Black Belt and am highly skilled in running Kaizen events. The last Black Belt project I completed will save a Fortune 500 company approximately $1.7mm annually through an improved inbound logistics program. This project involved a cross functional team consisting of everyone from warehouse associates to C-level executives. To be successful in continuous improvement, one must be able to work with and influence all types of people. For me, that means that sometimes I am wearing steel toed boots and on the floor of an operation while later in the day wearing a coat and tie and sitting in a board room. I know that the skills of someone involved in operations management and continuous improvement would be a great benefit for AMSAT. 

I am well educated having most recently attended Louisiana State University?s MBA program. I am currently rearing two daughters. One is 8 years-old and one is 13 years-old. One is licensed and active in amateur radio and satellites and the other is active operating under my call with me as a control operator. She is only eight but will soon be taking her Technician exam. Amateur radio and satellites have meant a lot to me and my family. There is rarely a day, weather permitting, that either myself, my daughter or both of us are not active on amateur satellites. Odds are, if you are active on FM, SSB or digital satellites that you have had a QSO with one or all of us. 

Board of Director members oversee Directors and volunteers and set the direction for the organization. Board of Director members need to have a good understanding of how business and business relationships work. We need business minded people, such as myself, on the Board of Directors to help provide crucial guidance for the organization. 

The incumbents and the Director, that lost his Board seat last year, are appealing to members through a campaign of launching an HEO satellite. That?s a wonderful thought. Let?s be honest. Why did it take an election cycle for them to do so? What have they done before this election cycle? If they couldn?t make it occur while they were in office, what makes someone think they can do it now? Please don?t vote for someone thinking they will provide you an HEO satellite. I will not promise you that but will promise you that I will assist in making it possible if the opportunity presents itself. Until then, AMSAT needs to be honest with members about opportunities and failures. There must be transparency within the organization. If nothing else, this campaign cycle has proven that there is a severe lack of transparency. 

I would appreciate your vote for a position on the AMSAT Board of Directors and look forward to serving you, the members, in that position. You can view my campaign website at the following URL:

http://www.WE4Bravo.com

Thank you for your consideration and please also cast a vote for Bob McGwier N4HY and for Howard DeFelice AB2S. 

Jeff Johns WE4B 

From peter at magicbug.co.uk  Fri Jul 17 09:43:21 2020
From: peter at magicbug.co.uk (Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL))
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 10:43:21 +0100
Subject: [amsat-bb] RS-44 Transponder Turned off 09:35z
Message-ID: <CAFvUaio2XEpt3dfB4cDWtT3k_bWcn-JODXWjPNgwimZotFqNbQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

I've just been using RS-44 was fine as it passed over North America,
Canada, however, once it went over Russia at around 09:35z the RS-44
transponder turned off.

I hope it will be back!

Peter, 2M0SQL

From m5aka at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Jul 17 10:44:44 2020
From: m5aka at yahoo.co.uk (M5AKA)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 10:44:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] SpaceX to launch Spanish ham radio satellites
References: <2095917976.4752399.1594982684609.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2095917976.4752399.1594982684609@mail.yahoo.com>

Unauthorized transmissions in 144 MHz satellite allocation 
https://amsat-uk.org/2020/07/17/unauthorized-transmissions-in-144-mhz-satellite-allocation/

SpaceX to launch AMSAT-EA EASAT-2 and Hades satellites 
https://amsat-uk.org/2020/07/16/spacex-to-launch-amsat-ea-easat-2-and-hades-satellites/

1240-1300 MHz discussed at CEPT SE 40 meeting 
https://amsat-uk.org/2020/07/14/1240-1300-mhz-discussed-at-cept-se-40-meeting/

LunART- Lunar Amateur Radio Transponder 
https://amsat-uk.org/2020/07/10/lunart-lunar-amateur-radio-transponder/

Nature carries an article about the spacecraft Longjiang-2 / Lunar-OSCAR 94 (LO-94), built by students at the Harbin Institute of Technology, that carried the first Amateur Radio communication system to operate in lunar orbit 
https://amsat-uk.org/2020/07/09/lo94-amateur-radio-in-lunar-orbit/

Trevor M5AKA----
AMSAT-UK?http://amsat-uk.org/
Twitter?https://twitter.com/AmsatUK
Facebook?https://facebook.com/AmsatUK
YouTube?https://youtube.com/AmsatUK
----

From clintbradford at mac.com  Fri Jul 17 11:16:29 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 04:16:29 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Candidte WE4B Inquiry
Message-ID: <FE59EF99-E3AD-494C-A617-75736FA1EB6C@mac.com>

Candidate WE4B - please list for us the projects you have volunteered for
for AMSAT-NA. Specifically for AMSAT-NA - and not just general satellite
contacts. Say, for the past 10 years.

Many thanks.

Clint Bradford K6LCS

From clintbradford at mac.com  Fri Jul 17 12:32:07 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 05:32:07 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Candidte WE4B Inquiry
In-Reply-To: <FE59EF99-E3AD-494C-A617-75736FA1EB6C@mac.com>
References: <FE59EF99-E3AD-494C-A617-75736FA1EB6C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <0F68D61A-B47E-40C2-911E-10AB500A056C@mac.com>




>> Hey Clint how about listing yours?  Many thanks . Rick WA9JBQ 

I am not running for the AMSAT-NA board, of course.

But couple projects come to mid, though:

-In almost every of my  100+ presentations, AMSAT-NA has a few ?slides? showing membership benefits. 
I also always mention how folks can leave bequeath in their wills, stating, ?The only ones who would be 
upset by leaving AMSAT-NA some money in their wills would be your grandchildren ? ? That always 
results in a chuckle from my audiences.
 
- I ran a ?contest -  ?Identify" that woman behind those Foster Grant sunglasses.? The photo was a black-and-
white of AMSAT-NA?e own  manager, Martha - shot, I believe, in England - MANY years ago. AMSAT-NA 
received more than $100  from me for that.

-The 3-4-page ?tutorial? that is very common for working the satellites? It was me wo first wrote that version, way 
back at the AMSAT Symposium when it was held in Central California (not 2011, but about 15-16 years ago- maybe 
2006?). My copy gets updated - I believe at least 20 times to keep up with the times. I that handed Martha the ?original4-page 
tutorial for her to use as she deemed fit. That was the symposium where I also donated two Arrow Antennas and 
a radio to AMSAT for their raffle. The tutorial is published on the Home page at http://www.work-sat.com - and it was 
also published in the official Symposium ?papers? document - look it up!

-More recently, I was ?prize chair? for AMSAT, and gathered more than $2,000 worth of prizes for the attendees.
I donated an HT and several other prizes myself! Among the prizes ?

-Better Tomorrow - Two DX coffee mugs (2 x 20 = $40)
-Sierra Radio Systems - SOMETHING, to be p/u by CB at PACIFICON
-Ventenna - VT-27 ($130)
-High Sierra Microwave - SOMETHING, via Andrew!
-Elk Antennas - One antenna + bag ($150)
-FunCube Dongle - Andrew snagged one! ($150)
-antennasus - THREE UC-4364-328 RHCP Rx Only Pl-259 antennas - ($280)
-K6LCS - Icom IC-BP170 batt case, Diamond SRH-320a antenna, Smiley 270A ($110)
-WIRED Comms - P/U stuff at Pacificon (probably a DMM and LED flashlight(s))
-Powerwerx - APO3 Auto Power-off Switch ($60)
-Apex - Two heat-shrink tubing kits (2 x 9 = $18)
-Nifty Accessories - IC-W32, three FT-60 guides (4 x 6 = $24) 
-Arrow Antennas - two sat antennas (2 x 140 = $280)
-DX Store - Icom IC-W32a HT ($150)
-Stephen Guylas - Three Guylas BNC-to-SMA adapters (gift certificates) (3 x 18 = $54)
-CQ Publications - one CQ VHF subscription - ($26)
-Pryme - SPM-2100 spkr-mic and EH-1289SC earpiece - ($44 + $26)
-HRO-Anaheim - eight Maha NiMH 2700mAH AA cells ($30)

-Then I conducted an online auction - with ALL PROCEEDS going to AMSAT. A Puxing dual- band HT, a early-serial 
number Icom IC-W32a, postage stamps that were flown into space - now in in a presentation folder,  several plate 
blocks of space-related postage  stamps, a cool Asus android-based Smartwatch ?

That?s just off the top of my head this morning. There are more projects with which I have been involved - 
directly benefitting AMSAT-NA.

Geeze, now that I think abut it, maybe I should run next time ?

Thanks for asking.

Clint Bradford K6LCS


From clintbradford at mac.com  Fri Jul 17 13:04:30 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 06:04:30 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Candidte WE4B Inquiry
In-Reply-To: <A954B3AE-8FEE-4C55-A8DB-CBE61498A8A9@hxcore.ol>
References: <FE59EF99-E3AD-494C-A617-75736FA1EB6C@mac.com>
	<0F68D61A-B47E-40C2-911E-10AB500A056C@mac.com>
	<A954B3AE-8FEE-4C55-A8DB-CBE61498A8A9@hxcore.ol>
Message-ID: <FE590CCA-FFAA-4CD3-9DA4-9E362E7F3524@mac.com>

Geeze, dude - no reason to get all snarky ? YOU asked the question.

You just didn?t like the answer ?

Clint Bradford K6LCS



> On Jul 17, 2020, at 5:40 AM, R W <rwyrwas48 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Yeah that?s great Clint, you would get my vote,  yeah right
>  
> Rick
> WA9JBQ


From murtonminer at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 12:25:32 2020
From: murtonminer at gmail.com (Oscar Acton)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 13:25:32 +0100
Subject: [amsat-bb] New satellite operator - M7OJA
Message-ID: <CABY8qsLDhdesQYEMs455V8f8gF0ZJiv+wy9P9+8BLdV3JXagHA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

My callsign is M7OJA. I was tracking the Fox-1D satellite and I called out
into a handheld radio with 8 watts into a collinear omnidirectional antenna
on my roof when the satellite passed. I heard a station come back very
clearly with "Juliet Alpha again". Unfortunately, the satellite had passed
by then, but I am impressed that I managed to get in with my minimal
station setup.

I would like to try to maximise the time I have to use the satellite. My
handheld radio (Anytone 868) doesn't have an auto doppler shift, so I am
wondering how to calculate the doppler frequencies? For example, on this
link https://amsat-uk.org/beginners/how-to-work-fm-satellites/, all of the
frequencies are listed to be programmed into a handheld (accounting for
doppler shift). I would like a similar list of frequencies for the Fox-1D
(or know how to calculate them).

Many Thanks,

Oscar M7OJA (IO94HT)

From rwmcgwier at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 13:22:41 2020
From: rwmcgwier at gmail.com (Robert McGwier)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 08:22:41 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] My qualifications to a member of AMSAT board of directors
Message-ID: <CA+K5gzfE=ewWbXMd8g=59UvtOKV37CwvP8KYP08NUhKdTNiiRg@mail.gmail.com>

I have been a director before.  Many might remember I wrote Quiktrak.
There are a few other things I have done.  Please take the time to read
this.  I believe you will find I am a qualified candidate for the board and
I hope you support me.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ySCgJn_gLRPHkqUjoHTKWgKzPNVOKBSI/view?usp=sharing

-- 
Bob McGwier
Founder, Federated Wireless, Inc
Founder and Technical Advisor, HawkEye 360, Inc
Adjunct Professor Virginia Tech
Former Chief Scientist:  The Ted and Karyn Hume Center for National
Security and Technology
Senior Member IEEE, Facebook: N4HYBob, ARS: N4HY

From n3cal at md.metrocast.net  Fri Jul 17 13:35:32 2020
From: n3cal at md.metrocast.net (Cal Spreitzer)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 09:35:32 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] New satellite operator - M7OJA
In-Reply-To: <CABY8qsLDhdesQYEMs455V8f8gF0ZJiv+wy9P9+8BLdV3JXagHA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABY8qsLDhdesQYEMs455V8f8gF0ZJiv+wy9P9+8BLdV3JXagHA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000101d65c3f$251cae60$6f560b20$@metrocast.net>

Hello Oscar,  the info you seek for Fox-1D can be found on this page:

https://www.amsat.org/getting-ready-for-fox-1d/


Best Wishes and 73,

Cal/N3CAL

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org] On Behalf Of Oscar Acton
via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 8:26 AM
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] New satellite operator - M7OJA

Hello,

My callsign is M7OJA. I was tracking the Fox-1D satellite and I called out
into a handheld radio with 8 watts into a collinear omnidirectional antenna
on my roof when the satellite passed. I heard a station come back very
clearly with "Juliet Alpha again". Unfortunately, the satellite had passed
by then, but I am impressed that I managed to get in with my minimal
station setup.

I would like to try to maximise the time I have to use the satellite. My
handheld radio (Anytone 868) doesn't have an auto doppler shift, so I am
wondering how to calculate the doppler frequencies? For example, on this
link https://amsat-uk.org/beginners/how-to-work-fm-satellites/, all of the
frequencies are listed to be programmed into a handheld (accounting for
doppler shift). I would like a similar list of frequencies for the Fox-1D
(or know how to calculate them).

Many Thanks,

Oscar M7OJA (IO94HT)
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From peter at magicbug.co.uk  Fri Jul 17 13:46:15 2020
From: peter at magicbug.co.uk (Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL))
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 14:46:15 +0100
Subject: [amsat-bb] New satellite operator - M7OJA
In-Reply-To: <CABY8qsLDhdesQYEMs455V8f8gF0ZJiv+wy9P9+8BLdV3JXagHA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABY8qsLDhdesQYEMs455V8f8gF0ZJiv+wy9P9+8BLdV3JXagHA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFvUaio5HUsVNAKLu7deVj0Y37T9DTVj+3BmRtSK1QTH-=UYjA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Oscar,

That was myself who replied JA AGAIN so you made it in OK but a little
weak, what antenna are you using with the handheld for best results
you will need a directional yagi and either a radio that does duplex
(RX/TX at the same time) or two radios the cheap Chinese FM radios
work.

Hopefully hear you on another pass!

Peter, 2M0SQL

On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 at 14:16, Oscar Acton via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> My callsign is M7OJA. I was tracking the Fox-1D satellite and I called out
> into a handheld radio with 8 watts into a collinear omnidirectional antenna
> on my roof when the satellite passed. I heard a station come back very
> clearly with "Juliet Alpha again". Unfortunately, the satellite had passed
> by then, but I am impressed that I managed to get in with my minimal
> station setup.
>
> I would like to try to maximise the time I have to use the satellite. My
> handheld radio (Anytone 868) doesn't have an auto doppler shift, so I am
> wondering how to calculate the doppler frequencies? For example, on this
> link https://amsat-uk.org/beginners/how-to-work-fm-satellites/, all of the
> frequencies are listed to be programmed into a handheld (accounting for
> doppler shift). I would like a similar list of frequencies for the Fox-1D
> (or know how to calculate them).
>
> Many Thanks,
>
> Oscar M7OJA (IO94HT)
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From g0kla at arrl.net  Fri Jul 17 13:47:54 2020
From: g0kla at arrl.net (Chris Thompson)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 09:47:54 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Mount Carmel HS ARC marine buoy deployed and
	transmitting
In-Reply-To: <612b59d8-1c42-d06c-97b0-45d5d15c021d@ka9q.net>
References: <6da1d733-4e93-c830-9a53-ec7b9edcb965@ka9q.net>
	<2142765169.2935342.1594941602469@mail.yahoo.com>
	<612b59d8-1c42-d06c-97b0-45d5d15c021d@ka9q.net>
Message-ID: <CAJOf0+tuUOJv41JGLP9Ouz66wwwvh=q1-VPjhvgYv5WsNaa0kQ@mail.gmail.com>

Very cool, thanks for posting the details.  Sounds like a great project.
Is it relaying any telemetry such as water temperature?  Or just position,
which is interesting for sure.

Managing to upload data to a sat would be a fantastic next step, but I can
already see the technical challenges with that.  Perhaps relaying the data
via an open linear transponder using PSK, with a sensitive ground station
listening for the results?  That seems more realistic than uploading data
to a mailbox like FalconSat-3 or similar.

Anyway, great to see projects like this engaging students.

73
Chris

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 9:28 PM Phil Karn via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> On 7/16/20 16:20, GEO Badger wrote:
> > Very cool Phil.. Thanks for sharing that.
> >
> > As an ex-employee of MBARI, I can tell you that we threw a lot of
> > stuff in the water that took more development time and cost than yours
> > with similar results.
> >
> Well, it remains to be seen just how long we'll last. I think we
> probably over-engineered this thing, and I wouldn't be surprised if it
> continues to float long after the batteries die. We did mark it to give
> us a chance of getting it back should it be discovered on a beach someday.
>
> We're already tossing around lots of ideas for a follow-on. Beware the
> second system effect...
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
Chris E. Thompson
chrisethompson at gmail.com
g0kla at arrl.net

From propgrinder at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 13:50:33 2020
From: propgrinder at gmail.com (Bob Hammond)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 06:50:33 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] SpaceX to launch Spanish ham radio satellites
In-Reply-To: <2095917976.4752399.1594982684609@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <2095917976.4752399.1594982684609.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<2095917976.4752399.1594982684609@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAKoB7OqmxViFgL9aZRTf35m7ancQ3+d2=01PCHWtfhDGw-GoFg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Trevor!  Great information.

Bob W7OTJ

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 3:49 AM M5AKA via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Unauthorized transmissions in 144 MHz satellite allocation
>
> https://amsat-uk.org/2020/07/17/unauthorized-transmissions-in-144-mhz-satellite-allocation/
>
> SpaceX to launch AMSAT-EA EASAT-2 and Hades satellites
>
> https://amsat-uk.org/2020/07/16/spacex-to-launch-amsat-ea-easat-2-and-hades-satellites/
>
> 1240-1300 MHz discussed at CEPT SE 40 meeting
>
> https://amsat-uk.org/2020/07/14/1240-1300-mhz-discussed-at-cept-se-40-meeting/
>
> LunART- Lunar Amateur Radio Transponder
> https://amsat-uk.org/2020/07/10/lunart-lunar-amateur-radio-transponder/
>
> Nature carries an article about the spacecraft Longjiang-2 / Lunar-OSCAR
> 94 (LO-94), built by students at the Harbin Institute of Technology, that
> carried the first Amateur Radio communication system to operate in lunar
> orbit
> https://amsat-uk.org/2020/07/09/lo94-amateur-radio-in-lunar-orbit/
>
> Trevor M5AKA----
> AMSAT-UK http://amsat-uk.org/
> Twitter https://twitter.com/AmsatUK
> Facebook https://facebook.com/AmsatUK
> YouTube https://youtube.com/AmsatUK
> ----
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From kk5do at arrl.net  Fri Jul 17 13:52:09 2020
From: kk5do at arrl.net (Bruce)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 08:52:09 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Field Day submissions due today
References: <33438fbd-f48e-9e90-c153-49150bb24f83.ref@arrl.net>
Message-ID: <33438fbd-f48e-9e90-c153-49150bb24f83@arrl.net>

Time is drawing near. If you have not submitted your field day report, 
you still have the rest of today to get them in. They are due to me at 
kk5do at arrl.net or kk5do at amsat.org by Friday, July 17, 2020 at 
11:59 PM Central Time. Even if you only made one contact, you can still 
submit.

73...bruce

-- 

Bruce Paige, KK5DO
                      
AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
AMSAT Board Member 2016-2020
   
ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
           
Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT*
Also live streaming MP3 at http://www.amsatnet.com
Podcast at http://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes
               
Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News
http://www.arrl.org

AMSAT on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/amsat


From royldean at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 13:52:22 2020
From: royldean at gmail.com (Roy Dean)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 09:52:22 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] New satellite operator - M7OJA
Message-ID: <CADGPg2uPETY4Pze12PAHNG2A6qaiO3JrGU1i4pHv2vR4mb19-A@mail.gmail.com>

>
> I would like to try to maximise the time I have to use the satellite. My
> handheld radio (Anytone 868) doesn't have an auto doppler shift, so I am
> wondering how to calculate the doppler frequencies? For example, on this
> link https://amsat-uk.org/beginners/how-to-work-fm-satellites/, all of the
> frequencies are listed to be programmed into a handheld (accounting for
> doppler shift). I would like a similar list of frequencies for the Fox-1D
> (or know how to calculate them). Many Thanks, Oscar M7OJA (IO94HT)


Hi Oscar (very appropriate name for this list!),

If you have a computer or smart phone accessible during the pass, I suggest
opening up the following webpage:

http://www.amsat.org.ar/pass.htm

Set your grid square at the bottom and hit "Resolve and Set New".   Double
check that the little house on the map is on your location.   If that is
correct, simply click on the satellite in the list and the upper right will
change to a display that shows the elevation, azimuth, and current
uplink/downlink at your location.   Then it's simply up to you to change
your uplink and downlink VFO to the closest match of the displayed correct
doppler frequency.

--Roy
K3RLD

From clintbradford at mac.com  Fri Jul 17 14:05:06 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 07:05:06 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] What?
Message-ID: <C848344B-6AA6-4A14-8665-B1CD82BE4A44@mac.com>

What? I have NEVER charged to put on a presentation.

Well. I take that back: I ask for an endless cup of coffee sometimes.

Whomever told you that is clueless - watch out for any ?facts? you receive from them in the future. 

Clint Bradford K6LCS

PS When I performed at Pacifico?s two years in a row (so many in attendance they asked me to perform TWICE the second year, THEY offered a hotel room and has money.



>> Clint. I understand that you charge for your presentations thus I would venture to say you financially benefit for your ?association ? with AMSAT. Is that correct 

73

Sent from my iPhone

From n8hm at arrl.net  Fri Jul 17 14:11:02 2020
From: n8hm at arrl.net (Paul Stoetzer)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 10:11:02 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Candidate Statement - Paul Stoetzer, N8HM
Message-ID: <CABzOSOrMZkKd4bB43KrXFyd-AkTDuevckbtDw0xAhicq2kq2Zg@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you to all the members that nominated me for the AMSAT Board of
Directors. For those of you who don't know me, my name is Paul
Stoetzer, N8HM. An AMSAT Life Member, I served as AMSAT?s Secretary
from 2015-2017 and as Executive Vice President since 2017.

There have been suggestions made that AMSAT is "stagnant," "in
hibernation," or "sitting on our thumbs." Nothing could be further
from the truth. By any objective measurement, the past five years have
been incredibly successful for AMSAT. Membership and satellite
activity has grown. We have launched four satellites and placed a
transponder on a fifth. One satellite (RadFxSat-2 / Fox-1E) is
completed and awaiting launch no earlier than the third quarter of
this year, and we have launch opportunities for the first two
satellites of our GOLF series. Additionally, we completed the
Multi-Voltage Power Supply for ARISS, have engaged in more
partnerships to fly our linear transponder module, and begun work on
the Amateur Radio EXploration (AREx) program to place an amateur
communications system on the Lunar Gateway. The work done by our
engineering team leads us well-poised for the future. I believe that
within the next few years, we will be in a position to place a CubeSat
in HEO and provide the worldwide amateur community with a resource
they have not enjoyed since AO-40. This will not be an easy task. It
is critical that the engineering team continues their work on the GOLF
project perfecting the systems that will enable us to operate a
CubeSat in a HEO environment. The first GOLF satellite, GOLF-TEE, will
serve as a testbed for these technologies in LEO. Data gained from
that mission will further inform our engineering team's efforts. While
our engineering team continues their hard work building the
satellites, the rest of the leadership team must work equally as hard
fundraising for a HEO launch opportunity. It will not be an easy task,
but I know we can do it. Please vote for me, Mark, N8MH, and Bruce,
KK5DO. Together we will return amateur radio to HEO.

I encourage you to read my candidate statement at
https://www.upwardtoheo.com/biographies/paul-stoetzer-n8hm

I've also written some more information about why I'm running for the Board at
https://www.upwardtoheo.com/updates/why-im-running-n8hm

Former AMSAT President Barry Baines, WD4ASW, explains why Mark, N8MH,
Bruce, KK5DO, and I are the best choices in this election at
https://www.upwardtoheo.com/updates/former-amsat-president-barry-baines-wd4asw-endorses-n8hm-n8mh-and-kk5do

73,

Paul, N8HM

From clintbradford at mac.com  Fri Jul 17 14:13:20 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 07:13:20 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Candidte WE4B Inquiry
In-Reply-To: <CAFeVdEPpRU-vxXim8ROibtsgdvUK3Bz-_28C5Tc_27ynPfkNyA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FE59EF99-E3AD-494C-A617-75736FA1EB6C@mac.com>
	<0F68D61A-B47E-40C2-911E-10AB500A056C@mac.com>
	<A954B3AE-8FEE-4C55-A8DB-CBE61498A8A9@hxcore.ol>
	<FE590CCA-FFAA-4CD3-9DA4-9E362E7F3524@mac.com>
	<CAFeVdEPpRU-vxXim8ROibtsgdvUK3Bz-_28C5Tc_27ynPfkNyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D65B49F4-41B9-4ED3-B865-91CAACDC7270@mac.com>

> On Jul 17, 2020, at 6:15 AM, Rick Wyrwas <rwyrwas48 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> No I know you do things for AMSAT but my question to you Sir is it just to benefit you financially

> 73 Rick WA9JBQ 




Fifty dollars.

And a few coffee mugs. One Fisher Space pen, engraved. Two books donated to a local library, 
in which I inscribed the bookplate.

I gave away a Kenwood TH-D72a, software, Arrow Antenna, and RT Systems? software to one club.

The $50 was totally unexpected and NOT solicited. While packing up my car after a presentation, 
the club prez handed my wife that check for $50. I was flabbergasted. Never asked for 

What is your problem?

Whomever you re getting your information from is, well to put it mildly - a misrepresenter of the truth.


Clint Bradford K6LCS






From clintbradford at mac.com  Fri Jul 17 14:16:42 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 07:16:42 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] WE4B - A Question
Message-ID: <DA1DBF26-071E-4BCA-AC25-7B7AB85BF7CA@mac.com>

Since the original question has been hijacked and might be un-seen by its 
intended recipient, I again ask:

Candidate WE4B - please list for us the projects you have volunteered for
for AMSAT-NA. Specifically for AMSAT-NA - and not just general satellite
contacts. Say, for the past 10 years.

Many thanks.

Clint Bradford K6LCS


Please respect the original title of the thread. Got a problem with me? Please initiate a new 
thread, send me email, or call me at 909-999-SATS. Please act decently.

Clint Bradford K6LCS

From mat_62 at charter.net  Fri Jul 17 15:17:10 2020
From: mat_62 at charter.net (Michael Tondee)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 11:17:10 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Moderation and personal attacks
Message-ID: <e9b7518d-f7b1-a939-5877-ea83c5975ed2@charter.net>

I have been informed I'm on moderated status for a "personal attack" so 
it will be interesting to see if this gets through. I feel I just spoke 
the known truth but the moderator disagrees so I will play by his rules. 
At any rate, this bb has been full of "personal attacks" lately both 
outright and veiled and unfortunately I see it continues with sniping 
and snide remarks. It's already established that I'm not currently a 
member of AMSAT and have my reasons why, but I would like to be a member 
again if I see positive change.? You can freely disregard my opinion if 
you like but I implore all of you to cast your votes wisely and not be 
influenced by the decidedly personal vendettas of a few here. AMSAT is 
stagnant and needs fresh direction. Many are? like me "on the outside 
looking in" and very interested to see where you choose to take the 
future of this organization. Thanks for your time.

73,

Michael, W4HIJ


From peter at magicbug.co.uk  Fri Jul 17 17:17:01 2020
From: peter at magicbug.co.uk (Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL))
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 18:17:01 +0100
Subject: [amsat-bb] RS-44 Transponder Turned off 09:35z
In-Reply-To: <CAFvUaio2XEpt3dfB4cDWtT3k_bWcn-JODXWjPNgwimZotFqNbQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFvUaio2XEpt3dfB4cDWtT3k_bWcn-JODXWjPNgwimZotFqNbQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFvUaioR1bx49FMDhZZb+xC6CmJMww3-XDpqCWhf0X+W72xXAA@mail.gmail.com>

back to normal at 17:10z thanks K0JM & VA3NNA for the nice QSOs

Peter, 2M0SQL

On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 at 10:43, Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) <peter at 2m0sql.com> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I've just been using RS-44 was fine as it passed over North America,
> Canada, however, once it went over Russia at around 09:35z the RS-44
> transponder turned off.
>
> I hope it will be back!
>
> Peter, 2M0SQL

From w2ev at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 17 17:18:23 2020
From: w2ev at yahoo.com (Ev Tupis)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 17:18:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Moderation and personal attacks
In-Reply-To: <e9b7518d-f7b1-a939-5877-ea83c5975ed2@charter.net>
References: <e9b7518d-f7b1-a939-5877-ea83c5975ed2@charter.net>
Message-ID: <392857699.2309901.1595006303152@mail.yahoo.com>

Bravo!? To the moderators.

Ev, W2EV




From karn at ka9q.net  Fri Jul 17 17:38:58 2020
From: karn at ka9q.net (Phil Karn)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 10:38:58 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Mount Carmel HS ARC marine buoy deployed and
 transmitting
In-Reply-To: <CAJOf0+tuUOJv41JGLP9Ouz66wwwvh=q1-VPjhvgYv5WsNaa0kQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6da1d733-4e93-c830-9a53-ec7b9edcb965@ka9q.net>
	<2142765169.2935342.1594941602469@mail.yahoo.com>
	<612b59d8-1c42-d06c-97b0-45d5d15c021d@ka9q.net>
	<CAJOf0+tuUOJv41JGLP9Ouz66wwwvh=q1-VPjhvgYv5WsNaa0kQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8cb72c7-224f-d021-e025-afc92c7803fc@ka9q.net>


On 7/17/20 6:47 AM, Chris Thompson wrote:
> Very cool, thanks for posting the details.? Sounds like a great
> project.? Is it relaying any telemetry such as water temperature?? Or
> just position, which is interesting for sure.

It's sending temperature and battery voltage, though the encoding is
coarse. Reported temp is 20C, but it's in 5C steps and maxes at 25C; the
tracker was designed for balloons after all. Reported battery voltage is
4.6 (nominal 4.5); I don't recall the resolution but it's probably 0.1V.

I still haven't heard it myself, though I haven't been listening
continuously. All the WSPR signals I'm getting on 20 m are > 1000 km
away, so I'm probably in the skip zone. Or my G5RV is just too crappy an
antenna.

>
> Managing to upload data to a sat would be a fantastic next step, but I
> can already see the technical challenges with that.? Perhaps relaying
> the data via an open linear transponder using PSK, with?a sensitive
> ground station listening for the results?? That seems more realistic
> than uploading data to a mailbox like FalconSat-3 or similar.
Yeah, satellite relaying would be cool. I know Bob, WB4APR, has had that
as his obsession for many years. I don't see why uploading to a mailbox
should be too difficult, considering we're in the middle of the ocean
without a lot of competition. We have all sorts of other ideas, like
data collection, an adaptive HF data link to dump it to shore, etc. But
we have to beware the dreaded "second system" effect.
>
> Anyway, great to see projects like this engaging students.

That's the idea! But a lot of things have conspired to interfere with
that process this year, sigh.

Phil



From framirezferrer at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 17:51:10 2020
From: framirezferrer at gmail.com (Fernando Ramirez)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 10:51:10 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Moderation and personal attacks
In-Reply-To: <e9b7518d-f7b1-a939-5877-ea83c5975ed2@charter.net>
References: <e9b7518d-f7b1-a939-5877-ea83c5975ed2@charter.net>
Message-ID: <CAGHXx8jDxe7=N7gCjQwB-KumH3htTAgB1w=g3JE5kuYPOyNoWQ@mail.gmail.com>

Was it because of your "huckster" comment?

I imagine the moderators (Mr. Stoetzer? Mr. Bankston?),have already applied
the Acceptable Use Policy and AMSAT Ambassador Code of Conduct to Clint
Bradford for making accusations against two AMSAT members on that same
thread without providing evidence.

73
Fernando KF7R

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 9:02 AM Michael Tondee via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I have been informed I'm on moderated status for a "personal attack" so
> it will be interesting to see if this gets through. I feel I just spoke
> the known truth but the moderator disagrees so I will play by his rules.
> At any rate, this bb has been full of "personal attacks" lately both
> outright and veiled and unfortunately I see it continues with sniping
> and snide remarks. It's already established that I'm not currently a
> member of AMSAT and have my reasons why, but I would like to be a member
> again if I see positive change.  You can freely disregard my opinion if
> you like but I implore all of you to cast your votes wisely and not be
> influenced by the decidedly personal vendettas of a few here. AMSAT is
> stagnant and needs fresh direction. Many are  like me "on the outside
> looking in" and very interested to see where you choose to take the
> future of this organization. Thanks for your time.
>
> 73,
>
> Michael, W4HIJ
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From framirezferrer at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 18:11:10 2020
From: framirezferrer at gmail.com (Fernando Ramirez)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 11:11:10 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Moderation and personal attacks
In-Reply-To: <9C864DFF-81AE-4080-9F07-40FEB8B189C1@me.com>
References: <9C864DFF-81AE-4080-9F07-40FEB8B189C1@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAGHXx8h6UQZ3zjH+Hg_OJBkN590KmDqF=t5wpqe0pDgCN6pd5A@mail.gmail.com>

Well, then you shouldn't have a problem with publishing that evidence.

KF7R

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 11:06 AM Clint Bradford <clintbradford at me.com> wrote:

> I have three independent sources - including GoDaddy - for that truth.
>
> Notice how WE4B hasn?t make a peep about it? And Patrick stating
> he wasn?t involved in CREATING it - but he sure contributed to it.
>
> With a third party.
>
> DO you, too, have some sort of ?personal vendetta? against me? Any
> questions or concerns? I am available by phone, email, Skype, Zoom ?
>
> Clint Bradford K6LCS
> 951-533-4984

From bruce at perens.com  Fri Jul 17 18:14:00 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 11:14:00 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] NASA and Open Source
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOvuxvUC+pGkLsWG4G=ERWb=4ZMP-gahVV7FMb5X9Zd9sg@mail.gmail.com>

I am reading a NASA Grant application today, and noticed this text:

Program elements will give preference to proposals that include a plan for
committing
software as Open Source Software (OSS), beginning at the inception of the
proposed
work. This plan will include the identification of software components
developed as part
of the proposed work, and designate a permissive, widely accepted OSS
license and a
public repository hosting service for these components.

From w2ev at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 17 18:26:38 2020
From: w2ev at yahoo.com (Ev Tupis)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 18:26:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Moderation and personal attacks
In-Reply-To: <CAGHXx8jDxe7=N7gCjQwB-KumH3htTAgB1w=g3JE5kuYPOyNoWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e9b7518d-f7b1-a939-5877-ea83c5975ed2@charter.net>
	<CAGHXx8jDxe7=N7gCjQwB-KumH3htTAgB1w=g3JE5kuYPOyNoWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1851110279.2345379.1595010398091@mail.yahoo.com>

On Friday, July 17, 2020, 01:53:57 PM EDT, Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:?

Was it because of your "huckster" comment?

I imagine ...
-------------------------------------------------------------

It is best to not imagine.? Avoid making up reasons.? It is best to know that moderators will step in and act when they think it is in the best interests of the list.? List members do not need to agree or disagree with their decision.


From bruce at perens.com  Fri Jul 17 18:29:24 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 11:29:24 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Moderation and personal attacks
In-Reply-To: <CAGHXx8jDxe7=N7gCjQwB-KumH3htTAgB1w=g3JE5kuYPOyNoWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e9b7518d-f7b1-a939-5877-ea83c5975ed2@charter.net>
	<CAGHXx8jDxe7=N7gCjQwB-KumH3htTAgB1w=g3JE5kuYPOyNoWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOvOQeSfjFj6V3VdLKbV_NYg_ApFRUdnTFuOkb0ss4qscQ@mail.gmail.com>

There is absolutely no doubt that *people* - not just one person - on this
list have behaved abusively to each other or even to entire classes of
people.
I have offered some of them this advice: "When you are in a fight with an
idiot, nobody can tell which person the idiot is."
And I have suggested that they take the high road next time.

About all we can do is go forward with better behavior. Endless hashing out
of this will not help when, as far as I can tell, none of the parties look
that good if you go over their past utterances. Hey, I've been there too.

    Thanks

    Bruce

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 10:53 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Was it because of your "huckster" comment?
>
> I imagine the moderators (Mr. Stoetzer? Mr. Bankston?),have already applied
> the Acceptable Use Policy and AMSAT Ambassador Code of Conduct to Clint
> Bradford for making accusations against two AMSAT members on that same
> thread without providing evidence.
>
> 73
> Fernando KF7R
>
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 9:02 AM Michael Tondee via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > I have been informed I'm on moderated status for a "personal attack" so
> > it will be interesting to see if this gets through. I feel I just spoke
> > the known truth but the moderator disagrees so I will play by his rules.
> > At any rate, this bb has been full of "personal attacks" lately both
> > outright and veiled and unfortunately I see it continues with sniping
> > and snide remarks. It's already established that I'm not currently a
> > member of AMSAT and have my reasons why, but I would like to be a member
> > again if I see positive change.  You can freely disregard my opinion if
> > you like but I implore all of you to cast your votes wisely and not be
> > influenced by the decidedly personal vendettas of a few here. AMSAT is
> > stagnant and needs fresh direction. Many are  like me "on the outside
> > looking in" and very interested to see where you choose to take the
> > future of this organization. Thanks for your time.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Michael, W4HIJ
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)

From framirezferrer at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 18:47:07 2020
From: framirezferrer at gmail.com (Fernando Ramirez)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 11:47:07 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Moderation and personal attacks
In-Reply-To: <1851110279.2345379.1595010398091@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <e9b7518d-f7b1-a939-5877-ea83c5975ed2@charter.net>
	<CAGHXx8jDxe7=N7gCjQwB-KumH3htTAgB1w=g3JE5kuYPOyNoWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1851110279.2345379.1595010398091@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAGHXx8h0_dXagUbVkiEOXC0pWE_CwvSwHq7GRE6OZHhBcOBnKw@mail.gmail.com>

"It is best to not imagine.  Avoid making up reasons.  It is best to know
that moderators will step in and act when they think it is in the best
interests of the list.  List members do not need to agree or disagree with
their decision."

Wow, I'm glad this is only an internet bulletin board and not a government!

From w2ev at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 17 19:03:51 2020
From: w2ev at yahoo.com (Ev Tupis)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 19:03:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Moderation and personal attacks
In-Reply-To: <CAGHXx8h0_dXagUbVkiEOXC0pWE_CwvSwHq7GRE6OZHhBcOBnKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e9b7518d-f7b1-a939-5877-ea83c5975ed2@charter.net>
	<CAGHXx8jDxe7=N7gCjQwB-KumH3htTAgB1w=g3JE5kuYPOyNoWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1851110279.2345379.1595010398091@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAGHXx8h0_dXagUbVkiEOXC0pWE_CwvSwHq7GRE6OZHhBcOBnKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2080945367.2348619.1595012631429@mail.yahoo.com>

In reply to:

---------------------------------------------------------?

"It is best to not imagine.? Avoid making up reasons.? It is best to know that moderators will step in and act when they think it is in the best interests of the list.? List members do not need to agree or disagree with their decision."

Wow, I'm glad this is only an internet bulletin board and not a government!?

---------------------------------------------------------


Exactly.? This is not a government.? It is an internet bulletin board system with a specific purpose that is known (and expected) to be moderated when its custodian believes message moderation is needed.

There is nothing wrong with being polite.? There is much wrong with not being polite.


From kj9idave at charter.net  Fri Jul 17 19:06:21 2020
From: kj9idave at charter.net (David J. Schmocker)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 14:06:21 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] request detailed system diagram for remoting a satellite
	station
Message-ID: <56d8bc10-2c78-abe5-a15a-de2b6c22d143@charter.net>

Hello,

Does anyone have a detailed system diagram (or interconnect drawing) 
showing how they have remoted a satellite station please??? Specifically 
which parts of the system require IP-addressable power on/off, etc.


I am in the process of constructing a new satellite station for U/V 
linear use at Milwaukee Area Technical College (where I teach).?? Our 
Data Communication and Networking class introduces satellite technology 
which I plan to demonstrate live.

Because the hours of access to the building are limited, and because we 
teach Data Communication and Networking from two campuses (but have 
Satellite station at only one), remoting this station would be desirable.

I have an APC IP-addressable power strip (117vac) and some power relays 
if we need 220vac switched, an IC-9700, two high-power switchable LNAs 
(2m and 70cm), antennas (20 element RHCP for 2m and 16 Turn G3RUH Helix 
for 70cm), and a Yaesu 5500 rotor with Green Heron Az/El controller 
(I'll bring Heliax from home to get to the rooftop).?? Hopefully our 
city campus location is not overly noisy.????? I plan to construct the 
HEO-ready station as soon as I can be back on campus to do this.

One specific area of concern: how to pass audio over internet. I've 
heard Skype and some other vehicles have problematic latency but I have 
yet to remote any station to use 'near real-time audio' for CW or SSB 
QSOs so I lack experience with this.? The satellite computer 
(controlling antennas and managing Doppler) is a Mac mini running 
MacLoggerDX and MacDoppler software.

If helpful, I have two surplus new Raspberry Pi 3s (new and unused) that 
could be repurposed for part of this if helpful.

You'll be happy to know I've been reading the mail and I know to first 
listen and test so we Tx with minimum power.? But as a satellite newby, 
I'm sure I'll need abundant guidance when we get QRV.

Any detailed system diagrams (could be off-list directly to me) showing 
how you built and configured such a remote station satellite system 
would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

very 73,

Dave KJ9I
KD9BOG (at work)


From lu9cbl at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 19:23:44 2020
From: lu9cbl at gmail.com (lu9cbl at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 16:23:44 -0300
Subject: [amsat-bb] request detailed system diagram for remoting a
 satellite station
In-Reply-To: <56d8bc10-2c78-abe5-a15a-de2b6c22d143@charter.net>
References: <56d8bc10-2c78-abe5-a15a-de2b6c22d143@charter.net>
Message-ID: <27554993-d9a3-d798-ba9f-26d6bc3a2366@gmail.com>

Hi! we have the same issue to want to be solved, but with an Icom 
IC9100. I saw an Icom Software 
(https://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/amateur/hf/rsba1/default.aspx) 
for our case, maybe can work with your 9700 too. We dont try it because 
for the COVID dont access to the station to try it.

BUT we are still searching an alternative with raspberry pi, to remote 
control all the station (Rotor, Equipment and audio exchange) so if you 
find an alternative, please share with us too.

73s Mati LU9CBL


El 17/7/2020 a las 16:06, David J. Schmocker via AMSAT-BB escribi?:
> Hello,
>
> Does anyone have a detailed system diagram (or interconnect drawing) 
> showing how they have remoted a satellite station please??? 
> Specifically which parts of the system require IP-addressable power 
> on/off, etc.
>
>
> I am in the process of constructing a new satellite station for U/V 
> linear use at Milwaukee Area Technical College (where I teach).?? Our 
> Data Communication and Networking class introduces satellite 
> technology which I plan to demonstrate live.
>
> Because the hours of access to the building are limited, and because 
> we teach Data Communication and Networking from two campuses (but have 
> Satellite station at only one), remoting this station would be desirable.
>
> I have an APC IP-addressable power strip (117vac) and some power 
> relays if we need 220vac switched, an IC-9700, two high-power 
> switchable LNAs (2m and 70cm), antennas (20 element RHCP for 2m and 16 
> Turn G3RUH Helix for 70cm), and a Yaesu 5500 rotor with Green Heron 
> Az/El controller (I'll bring Heliax from home to get to the 
> rooftop).?? Hopefully our city campus location is not overly 
> noisy.????? I plan to construct the HEO-ready station as soon as I can 
> be back on campus to do this.
>
> One specific area of concern: how to pass audio over internet. I've 
> heard Skype and some other vehicles have problematic latency but I 
> have yet to remote any station to use 'near real-time audio' for CW or 
> SSB QSOs so I lack experience with this.? The satellite computer 
> (controlling antennas and managing Doppler) is a Mac mini running 
> MacLoggerDX and MacDoppler software.
>
> If helpful, I have two surplus new Raspberry Pi 3s (new and unused) 
> that could be repurposed for part of this if helpful.
>
> You'll be happy to know I've been reading the mail and I know to first 
> listen and test so we Tx with minimum power.? But as a satellite 
> newby, I'm sure I'll need abundant guidance when we get QRV.
>
> Any detailed system diagrams (could be off-list directly to me) 
> showing how you built and configured such a remote station satellite 
> system would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you
>
> very 73,
>
> Dave KJ9I
> KD9BOG (at work)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. 
> Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views 
> of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite 
> program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

-- 
El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electr?nico en busca de virus.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


From k9jkm at comcast.net  Fri Jul 17 19:25:56 2020
From: k9jkm at comcast.net (JoAnne K9JKM)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 14:25:56 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] request detailed system diagram for remoting a
 satellite station
In-Reply-To: <56d8bc10-2c78-abe5-a15a-de2b6c22d143@charter.net>
References: <56d8bc10-2c78-abe5-a15a-de2b6c22d143@charter.net>
Message-ID: <5F11FB44.1070908@comcast.net>

 > Does anyone have a detailed system diagram (or interconnect
 > drawing) showing how they have remoted a satellite station please?
 > Specifically which parts of the system require IP-addressable power 
on/off, etc.

K8YSE wrote an article of his remote station configuration in the 
January/February 2014 AMSAT Journal. An archived copy can be found at 
https://launch.amsat.org/

Then follow the links to the AMSAT Journal archive.

-- 
73 de JoAnne K9JKM
k9jkm at amsat.org


From n8hm at arrl.net  Fri Jul 17 19:29:00 2020
From: n8hm at arrl.net (Paul Stoetzer)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 15:29:00 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] request detailed system diagram for remoting a
 satellite station
In-Reply-To: <56d8bc10-2c78-abe5-a15a-de2b6c22d143@charter.net>
References: <56d8bc10-2c78-abe5-a15a-de2b6c22d143@charter.net>
Message-ID: <CABzOSOqHQFCono_eBekWH4yNRFbwNMpXPAzZTQLH4ZpbOMfheQ@mail.gmail.com>

AMSAT members can view the article entitled "An Internet Remote
Station" by John Papay, K8YSE, in the January/February 2014 issue of
The AMSAT Journal: https://launch.amsat.org/The-AMSAT-Journal-2014

Obviously technology has evolved somewhat in the past six years, but
that should get you a good start on what needs to be considered.

73,

Paul Stoetzer, N8HM
Executive Vice President
AMSAT


On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 3:07 PM David J. Schmocker via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Does anyone have a detailed system diagram (or interconnect drawing)
> showing how they have remoted a satellite station please?   Specifically
> which parts of the system require IP-addressable power on/off, etc.
>
>
> I am in the process of constructing a new satellite station for U/V
> linear use at Milwaukee Area Technical College (where I teach).   Our
> Data Communication and Networking class introduces satellite technology
> which I plan to demonstrate live.
>
> Because the hours of access to the building are limited, and because we
> teach Data Communication and Networking from two campuses (but have
> Satellite station at only one), remoting this station would be desirable.
>
> I have an APC IP-addressable power strip (117vac) and some power relays
> if we need 220vac switched, an IC-9700, two high-power switchable LNAs
> (2m and 70cm), antennas (20 element RHCP for 2m and 16 Turn G3RUH Helix
> for 70cm), and a Yaesu 5500 rotor with Green Heron Az/El controller
> (I'll bring Heliax from home to get to the rooftop).   Hopefully our
> city campus location is not overly noisy.      I plan to construct the
> HEO-ready station as soon as I can be back on campus to do this.
>
> One specific area of concern: how to pass audio over internet. I've
> heard Skype and some other vehicles have problematic latency but I have
> yet to remote any station to use 'near real-time audio' for CW or SSB
> QSOs so I lack experience with this.  The satellite computer
> (controlling antennas and managing Doppler) is a Mac mini running
> MacLoggerDX and MacDoppler software.
>
> If helpful, I have two surplus new Raspberry Pi 3s (new and unused) that
> could be repurposed for part of this if helpful.
>
> You'll be happy to know I've been reading the mail and I know to first
> listen and test so we Tx with minimum power.  But as a satellite newby,
> I'm sure I'll need abundant guidance when we get QRV.
>
> Any detailed system diagrams (could be off-list directly to me) showing
> how you built and configured such a remote station satellite system
> would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you
>
> very 73,
>
> Dave KJ9I
> KD9BOG (at work)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From kj9idave at charter.net  Fri Jul 17 19:29:20 2020
From: kj9idave at charter.net (David J. Schmocker)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 14:29:20 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] request detailed system diagram for remoting a
 satellite station
In-Reply-To: <27554993-d9a3-d798-ba9f-26d6bc3a2366@gmail.com>
References: <56d8bc10-2c78-abe5-a15a-de2b6c22d143@charter.net>
	<27554993-d9a3-d798-ba9f-26d6bc3a2366@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0832b963-6113-8301-814a-27067237a961@charter.net>

dear Mati:
Thank you.. I will share any details discovered!?? If nothing is out 
there already in existence, certainly I can design my own solution (this 
may just take a lot longer).

very 73 and I look forward to contacting LU station Mati via satellites!

very 73,

Dave KJ9I

KD9BOG at work

On 7/17/20 2:23 PM, lu9cbl--- via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Hi! we have the same issue to want to be solved, but with an Icom 
> IC9100. I saw an Icom Software 
> (https://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/amateur/hf/rsba1/default.aspx) 
> for our case, maybe can work with your 9700 too. We dont try it 
> because for the COVID dont access to the station to try it.
>
> BUT we are still searching an alternative with raspberry pi, to remote 
> control all the station (Rotor, Equipment and audio exchange) so if 
> you find an alternative, please share with us too.
>
> 73s Mati LU9CBL
>
>
> El 17/7/2020 a las 16:06, David J. Schmocker via AMSAT-BB escribi?:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Does anyone have a detailed system diagram (or interconnect drawing) 
>> showing how they have remoted a satellite station please??? 
>> Specifically which parts of the system require IP-addressable power 
>> on/off, etc.
>>
>>
>> I am in the process of constructing a new satellite station for U/V 
>> linear use at Milwaukee Area Technical College (where I teach).?? Our 
>> Data Communication and Networking class introduces satellite 
>> technology which I plan to demonstrate live.
>>
>> Because the hours of access to the building are limited, and because 
>> we teach Data Communication and Networking from two campuses (but 
>> have Satellite station at only one), remoting this station would be 
>> desirable.
>>
>> I have an APC IP-addressable power strip (117vac) and some power 
>> relays if we need 220vac switched, an IC-9700, two high-power 
>> switchable LNAs (2m and 70cm), antennas (20 element RHCP for 2m and 
>> 16 Turn G3RUH Helix for 70cm), and a Yaesu 5500 rotor with Green 
>> Heron Az/El controller (I'll bring Heliax from home to get to the 
>> rooftop).?? Hopefully our city campus location is not overly 
>> noisy.????? I plan to construct the HEO-ready station as soon as I 
>> can be back on campus to do this.
>>
>> One specific area of concern: how to pass audio over internet. I've 
>> heard Skype and some other vehicles have problematic latency but I 
>> have yet to remote any station to use 'near real-time audio' for CW 
>> or SSB QSOs so I lack experience with this.? The satellite computer 
>> (controlling antennas and managing Doppler) is a Mac mini running 
>> MacLoggerDX and MacDoppler software.
>>
>> If helpful, I have two surplus new Raspberry Pi 3s (new and unused) 
>> that could be repurposed for part of this if helpful.
>>
>> You'll be happy to know I've been reading the mail and I know to 
>> first listen and test so we Tx with minimum power.? But as a 
>> satellite newby, I'm sure I'll need abundant guidance when we get QRV.
>>
>> Any detailed system diagrams (could be off-list directly to me) 
>> showing how you built and configured such a remote station satellite 
>> system would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>> very 73,
>>
>> Dave KJ9I
>> KD9BOG (at work)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. 
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views 
>> of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite 
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From bruce at perens.com  Fri Jul 17 19:36:35 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 12:36:35 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Moderation and personal attacks
In-Reply-To: <2080945367.2348619.1595012631429@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <e9b7518d-f7b1-a939-5877-ea83c5975ed2@charter.net>
	<CAGHXx8jDxe7=N7gCjQwB-KumH3htTAgB1w=g3JE5kuYPOyNoWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1851110279.2345379.1595010398091@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAGHXx8h0_dXagUbVkiEOXC0pWE_CwvSwHq7GRE6OZHhBcOBnKw@mail.gmail.com>
	<2080945367.2348619.1595012631429@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOthsExTBr98q5GGq54Oro7OTYBnHaYiUGX1Wia347kiZg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 12:05 PM Ev Tupis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> There is nothing wrong with being polite.  There is much wrong with not
> being polite.


Yes. But that's not the argument. You rendered it as if the moderators
would step in and act somewhat opaquely - the members need not agree. The
reality is that they should, and probably will, act according to published
rules which we are all aware of. Like a government, and as imperfectly.

From chad.kg0mw at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 19:41:11 2020
From: chad.kg0mw at gmail.com (Chad KG0MW)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 19:41:11 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <CAPOM0dm1zQwE6puntpn8=gsO3rvWsurEq8XodVvkHsQH2=9WGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1712165007.494111.1594583328598.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1712165007.494111.1594583328598@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CADkz4c8eeEfCHORcgar3C3AXxGaTuJkLWb3yMkT3FHcpv1ENWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CH2PR12MB38930FA8A6FAEA2AAABBA3BDA9600@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAPOM0dm1zQwE6puntpn8=gsO3rvWsurEq8XodVvkHsQH2=9WGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CH2PR12MB389340CCD476299C1F1EE7D8A97C0@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

I won?t walk away. I will be here to support what I believe AMSAT has always and will stand for.


C


From: Kenneth P Alexander <ve3hls at gmail.com>
Date: Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 11:40 PM
To: Chad KG0MW <chad.kg0mw at gmail.com>
Cc: Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com>, Brad Smith <corlissbs at aol.com>, Amsat BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read

Sure Chad,

I'll consider supporting Amsat again as soon as this mess is cleaned up and everyone is satisfied with the outcome, whichever way it goes.
Ken, VE3HLS
So Phisai, Thailand
Blog:  bueng-ken.com<http://bueng-ken.com>

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 08:58 Chad KG0MW via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org<mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>> wrote:
Joseph you are right. As much as the BoD needs to promote AMSAT, we as members need to stand up promote AMSAT and show our support. The more support we show, hopefully the sooner we can get back to actual constructive conversation.

Chad


?On 7/12/20, 4:22 PM, "AMSAT-BB on behalf of Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org<mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> on behalf of amsat-bb at amsat.org<mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>> wrote:

    Brad,

    What transparency and progress has been brought to the organization
    from the members that you speak of?  Specifically?  It appears that
    since they were voted in, everyone in the organization is now walking
    on egg-shells. The BB is now plastered with emails asking which words
    mean what feelings, name calling and chasing after the organization
    using whatever legal means the wizards-of-smart can conjure up all in
    the name of almighty, all-righeous, '''transparency'''. It all seems
    rather insincere and unproductive to me.  People like this should do
    the organization a favor, and leave, run their own competing
    organization and take whatever people and dollars happen to follow
    them.

    I would honestly like to return to the ARISSat-1 days, where it was
    just full-speed-ahead engineering and not all this talk all about
    'saving AMSAT' and ORI garbage.  All this ORI promotion on the BB, is
    absolute garbage.  No rational AMSAT member should be OK with that,
    especially from an AMSAT BOD member.  ORI is a separate, competing
    organization and their bylaws are..... telling.  If AMSATs bylaws were
    ever amended to be anything like those, you can kiss your membership
    goodbye, ref: https://openresearch.institute/organization-documents.
    Their bylaws literally say "Membership shall consist of the Board of
    Directors.".  Quite an Open organization, indeed!

    But I digress... The more of these kinds of people you vote in, the
    more the organization is going to be hurt, guaranteed. Because not
    only is nothing going to get done, obviously some people don't want to
    work with them for whatever-reasons and THAT actually is important.
    And, the reasons are important too.  Have you wondered why...?  I do!
    As a small business owner, when I hear such-and-such doesn't want to
    work with so-and-so, I immediately want to ask "What happened"?  From
    what the email traffic looks like, it seems like you may have to worry
    about legal action for everything you say or do around them or, maybe
    there was some pre-election history that most of the people that voted
    for them, didn't know about.  I have no clue, but this all does make
    me wonder.

    Either way, it seems like the state of things right now is Much Worst
    than it was prior-to the last election, so... Not sure why anyone
    would want more of this.  For me, the socio-political environment is
    just as important as the engi-nerding portion..  At the very least,
    BOD members need to be promoting the organization they are on the
    board of and noone should have to worry about legal retaliation over
    every little thing.

    Joseph Armbruster
    KJ4JIO

    On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 3:58 PM Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB
    <amsat-bb at amsat.org<mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>> wrote:
    >
    > If you care about the AMSAT organization continuing to help hams in space communications, please read and reread Patrick's and Michelle's explanations.  They layout exactly what happened. Now we learn that the expenditure is over 16k. That is 363 memberships, if this retired engineer's math is correct. This is money wasted to beat down two members who want transparency and progress. This was not right. Our money was wasted! I am anxious for the election.
    >
    > Again, I ask that members do not resign over this. That helps nobody and hurts out hobby, which has already taken a huge hit. Solve this with your voting privilege.
    >
    > 73 Brad KC9UQR
    > _______________________________________________
    > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org<mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
    > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
    > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
    > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
    > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
    _______________________________________________
    Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org<mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
    to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
    are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
    Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
    Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org<mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From bruce at perens.com  Fri Jul 17 19:43:38 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 12:43:38 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] request detailed system diagram for remoting a
 satellite station
In-Reply-To: <56d8bc10-2c78-abe5-a15a-de2b6c22d143@charter.net>
References: <56d8bc10-2c78-abe5-a15a-de2b6c22d143@charter.net>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOuJsbTNmdjbi4SoUr9zTVFnmkn91tfdC6wLWweeefNfhQ@mail.gmail.com>

Study SatNOGS. I haven't looked for a while and it was mostly receive-only
when I did, but they have hardware and software to make a good start. Plus,
any remote station should participate in the SatNOGS network when otherwise
not in use.

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 12:09 PM David J. Schmocker via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Does anyone have a detailed system diagram (or interconnect drawing)
> showing how they have remoted a satellite station please?   Specifically
> which parts of the system require IP-addressable power on/off, etc.
>
>
> I am in the process of constructing a new satellite station for U/V
> linear use at Milwaukee Area Technical College (where I teach).   Our
> Data Communication and Networking class introduces satellite technology
> which I plan to demonstrate live.
>
> Because the hours of access to the building are limited, and because we
> teach Data Communication and Networking from two campuses (but have
> Satellite station at only one), remoting this station would be desirable.
>
> I have an APC IP-addressable power strip (117vac) and some power relays
> if we need 220vac switched, an IC-9700, two high-power switchable LNAs
> (2m and 70cm), antennas (20 element RHCP for 2m and 16 Turn G3RUH Helix
> for 70cm), and a Yaesu 5500 rotor with Green Heron Az/El controller
> (I'll bring Heliax from home to get to the rooftop).   Hopefully our
> city campus location is not overly noisy.      I plan to construct the
> HEO-ready station as soon as I can be back on campus to do this.
>
> One specific area of concern: how to pass audio over internet. I've
> heard Skype and some other vehicles have problematic latency but I have
> yet to remote any station to use 'near real-time audio' for CW or SSB
> QSOs so I lack experience with this.  The satellite computer
> (controlling antennas and managing Doppler) is a Mac mini running
> MacLoggerDX and MacDoppler software.
>
> If helpful, I have two surplus new Raspberry Pi 3s (new and unused) that
> could be repurposed for part of this if helpful.
>
> You'll be happy to know I've been reading the mail and I know to first
> listen and test so we Tx with minimum power.  But as a satellite newby,
> I'm sure I'll need abundant guidance when we get QRV.
>
> Any detailed system diagrams (could be off-list directly to me) showing
> how you built and configured such a remote station satellite system
> would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you
>
> very 73,
>
> Dave KJ9I
> KD9BOG (at work)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)

From chad.kg0mw at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 19:45:28 2020
From: chad.kg0mw at gmail.com (Chad KG0MW)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 19:45:28 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Testing
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOtz55S5Hisbb765z65ZQ=rLt+p_AMyAwMzrGj-HjKSABg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19c6fd82-7965-23e1-0553-3f27506ba622@charter.net>
	<CALx_moT1DPKk5Zr+rLt54Rm9Zdy=yyonjHa0JQ2NTcNy4R4X9A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtz55S5Hisbb765z65ZQ=rLt+p_AMyAwMzrGj-HjKSABg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CH2PR12MB3893F527D1B399EE65F861CCA97C0@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

Don't agree. Bringing in "new blood" just because you want a fresh whatever, is not the way to change a culture. Elect someone based on their person, achievements, how can AMSAT benefit from them. Not simply because you want change...

Chad


?On 7/13/20, 8:22 AM, "AMSAT-BB on behalf of Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org on behalf of amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

    I am saving the pillory for someone who does greater damage. :-) Please
    elect new blood, every organization needs it. That is all that is necessary.

    Bruce

    On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 8:44 PM Jeff Moore via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
    wrote:

    > I agree with this assessment of the situation with one exception!!
    >
    > AMSAT-NA is not a cookie jar, and these are not kids!!!  IF in fact there
    > is some legal liability here - then the responsible parties should be held
    > accountable!!  If that means prison time - then so be it!!!  A thief is a
    > thief and theft is illegal - let the chips fall where they should!!!
    >
    > The LAST thing that should happen here is pillorying the whistleblowers
    > assuming they are correct and without liability here!
    >
    > 7  3
    > Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY
    >
    >
    >
    > On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 8:22 PM Michael Tondee via AMSAT-BB <
    > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
    >
    > > I'm sorry but I  don't see where my last post ever got through. Pretty
    > > sure it was sent to the right place but I never saw it show up. Hmnn,
    > > wonder why... too critical? At any rate, not a member but reading all
    > > the mud being slung at two board members, who for the most part just
    > > seemed to have asked for some board accountability, this sure looks like
    > > a classic case of  the kids getting caught with their hand in the
    > > proverbial cookie jar and they're now scurrying to cover it up from
    > > Mom&Dad. Sigh....
    > >
    > > 73,
    > >
    > > Michael, W4HIJ
    > >
    > > _______________________________________________
    > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
    > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
    > Opinions
    > > expressed
    > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
    > > AMSAT-NA.
    > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
    > program!
    > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
    > >
    > _______________________________________________
    > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
    > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
    > expressed
    > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
    > AMSAT-NA.
    > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
    > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
    >
    _______________________________________________
    Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
    to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
    are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
    Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
    Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From chad.kg0mw at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 19:46:41 2020
From: chad.kg0mw at gmail.com (Chad KG0MW)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 19:46:41 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOtaYqGL78Pa03AC=a3fFLz9V6=ydrxPk6mB1_21yN_zPA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.6595.1594607750.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<CAM42373tYrrqGbg3e82LWVzvTMa468eG08Jy7taBdxVUN_Px-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtaYqGL78Pa03AC=a3fFLz9V6=ydrxPk6mB1_21yN_zPA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CH2PR12MB3893DEE9132C4692F862B7C1A97C0@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

Roberts Rules of Order are a great guideline. But they do not teach you how to socially interact with one another or how to gain the trust of someone..


C


?On 7/13/20, 8:26 AM, "AMSAT-BB on behalf of Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org on behalf of amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

    Paul,

    Roberts Rules are regarding parliamentary procedure. AMSAT's bylaws are at
    https://www.amsat.org/bylaws-of-the-radio-amateur-satellite-corporation/ .
    They do not specify parliamentary procedure. They are about
    responsibilities of a director, elections, etc. And if you have the choice,
    Roberts is an antique, good parliamentarians use Sturgis.

    Bruce

    On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:12 PM Paul F. Merrill via AMSAT-BB <
    amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

    > I agree that this mailing list has strayed from its strongest contribution:
    > satellite information, discussion, and mentoring.
    >
    > I come from, and have been on the BOD of, a professional organization for a
    > number of years now.
    >
    > FWIW, I know too well that an organization often lawyers up to protect
    > itself, and in our issues, our attorney was engaged to act solely on behalf
    > of the Organization and not necessarily current management.
    >
    > This thread has turned in to a long, ugly diatribe filled with accusations,
    > counter-accusations, and painfully-obvious shills.  I am a recently-renewed
    > member who doesn?t have a dog in the fight, so I just want what?s best for
    > AMSAT.
    >
    > Sadly, the stereotypes are starting to show - the members who contribute
    > nothing but want to tear down those ?In power,? the members who contribute
    > nothing and don?t want anyone to make waves, and the few who actually do
    > anything.  As a number of people have commented, working in a non-profit or
    > unpaid leadership role is utterly thankless, which is lost on many people -
    > especially those who have never labored in this sort of endeavor.
    >
    > My favorite story from our times of trouble is when our Parliamentarian
    > said, ?Roberts Rules are the last refuge of a scoundrel.  Grown men and
    > women should be able to comport themselves reasonably...but then I?d be out
    > of a job.?   I?m taking a little license with his exact words, but the
    > sentiment, along with my experience, formed my native distrust of those who
    > are right and everyone and everything before them is wrong.  So...there?s
    > my bias.  I will examine that, and all the information I can before I
    > vote.  I hope everyone else will take the time and expend the effort to
    > vote as intelligently as they can.
    >
    > My overriding guidance to my Association is that we contribute to the group
    > so that we all benefit from the group.  A strong organization should
    > outlive us.
    >
    > Personally, I can?t wait to vote and hopefully put a fork in this.
    >
    > Paul / W7IV
    >
    >
    >
    > ????????-
    >
    > Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 19:27:24 -0700
    > From: "Daron Wilson" <daron at wilson.org>
    > To: "'AMSAT BB'" <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
    > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
    > Message-ID: <00b501d658bd$26119cc0$7234d640$@org>
    > Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="utf-8"
    >
    > Is there a bulletin board that discusses amateur radio satellites
    > operations still?   Asking for a friend.  This is getting old.
    >
    >
    > Daron N7HQR
    > _______________________________________________
    > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
    > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
    > expressed
    > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
    > AMSAT-NA.
    > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
    > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
    >
    _______________________________________________
    Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
    to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
    are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
    Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
    Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From framirezferrer at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 19:49:12 2020
From: framirezferrer at gmail.com (Fernando Ramirez)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 12:49:12 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Moderation and personal attacks
In-Reply-To: <2080945367.2348619.1595012631429@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <e9b7518d-f7b1-a939-5877-ea83c5975ed2@charter.net>
	<CAGHXx8jDxe7=N7gCjQwB-KumH3htTAgB1w=g3JE5kuYPOyNoWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1851110279.2345379.1595010398091@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAGHXx8h0_dXagUbVkiEOXC0pWE_CwvSwHq7GRE6OZHhBcOBnKw@mail.gmail.com>
	<2080945367.2348619.1595012631429@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAGHXx8g7fTOKUbY8k3ekNA5uB35gVaSVO6rEaka2T3Yo3RXT5Q@mail.gmail.com>

I don't have a problem with enforcing the established rules. I do have a
problem with arbitrarily enforcing those rules.

 I do agree that politeness takes less effort than not being polite.

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 12:08 PM Ev Tupis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> In reply to:
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> "It is best to not imagine.  Avoid making up reasons.  It is best to know
> that moderators will step in and act when they think it is in the best
> interests of the list.  List members do not need to agree or disagree with
> their decision."
>
> Wow, I'm glad this is only an internet bulletin board and not a
> government!
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Exactly.  This is not a government.  It is an internet bulletin board
> system with a specific purpose that is known (and expected) to be moderated
> when its custodian believes message moderation is needed.
>
> There is nothing wrong with being polite.  There is much wrong with not
> being polite.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From clintbradford at mac.com  Fri Jul 17 20:25:48 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 13:25:48 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7403.1595015190.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.7403.1595015190.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <9BED4E43-B35F-474B-A3AC-D7667D48E3F6@mac.com>

Why are you comparing the legal expenditures with membership fees?

Di you discover that membership fees were used in any manner for those expenses?

If not, then why don?t we compare that amount with, say, Apples or Watermelons?





> On Jul 17, 2020, at 12:46 PM, amsat-bb-request at amsat.org wrote:
> 
>>  Now we learn that the expenditure is over 16k. That is 363 memberships, if this retired engineer's math is correct. 


From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 20:29:59 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 16:29:59 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] NASA and Open Source
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOvuxvUC+pGkLsWG4G=ERWb=4ZMP-gahVV7FMb5X9Zd9sg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK2MWOvuxvUC+pGkLsWG4G=ERWb=4ZMP-gahVV7FMb5X9Zd9sg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c8Y_VMAGMB3sU4hxSfkC5=2tFSoZaCgOudX9pOi-eD8qw@mail.gmail.com>

Bruce,

Yeah, NASA (and other government agencies) have been promoting OSS for
quite some time and some even have some long-standing projects, ref:
WorldWind.  And something worth noting, is that with the government,
what they mean by OSS can sometimes be misleading.  There is GOTS
(Government Off The Shelf) OSS and non-GOTS OSS.  Meaning, it could be
regular OSS lib, but accessible only in a repository that is only
accessible by government contractors / programs that have a need, and
never really return code to the public domain (but do maintain
changes).  This is quite commonplace.  I am not sure if that's what
they mean in this case of the grant, specifically.  NASAs WorldWind,
has source repositories in the public domain and has for many years (I
may be in the commit logs somewhere), so some definitely do work that
way.

Projects like GDAL have benefited greatly from government / OSS
integration.  But then, you have situations like LAS Tools Right Now,
where the main developer purportedly made some kind of a threat about
adding malicious code to it, so gov agencies are asking everyone to
immediately uninstall QGIS (open source GIS package, that utilizes las
tools out of the box).  I don't know if this has been validated but
you can find bits and pieces around the net about it.  Which brings me
to my next point.

Sometimes, if you're working a government contract and you want to use
a particular OSS library, they do not allow you to just download it
and use it.  You can however, purchase it through a trusted
third-party company.  All due to liability issues.  As a result, you
can literally burn, box and sell, literally Free software.  The
problem is, what if libtiff pokes a hole in the firewall every three
image opens?  And, don't laugh, i've seen weird stuff happen over the
years.  The funniest, was an API function to "create a folder" at a
path, that, if the folder already exists, it would actually traverse
the folder and delete all files / folders found underneath it.  No
joke.  Now, due to some bad // \\ path handling in the lib, when
passed a path like this: C://something//and//some//place, it
accidentally started wiping everything in the root of the C:/ drive.
The first tool user that experienced that, was not a happy camper :-)
The OSS path handling lib wasn't explicitly malicious, it was just bad
path handling in the lib causing the problem, but bygons.  Liability
is a royal PITA.

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 2:18 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> I am reading a NASA Grant application today, and noticed this text:
>
> Program elements will give preference to proposals that include a plan for
> committing
> software as Open Source Software (OSS), beginning at the inception of the
> proposed
> work. This plan will include the identification of software components
> developed as part
> of the proposed work, and designate a permissive, widely accepted OSS
> license and a
> public repository hosting service for these components.
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From zleffke at vt.edu  Fri Jul 17 20:31:55 2020
From: zleffke at vt.edu (Leffke, Zachary)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 20:31:55 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] request detailed system diagram for remoting a
 satellite station
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOuJsbTNmdjbi4SoUr9zTVFnmkn91tfdC6wLWweeefNfhQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56d8bc10-2c78-abe5-a15a-de2b6c22d143@charter.net>
	<CAK2MWOuJsbTNmdjbi4SoUr9zTVFnmkn91tfdC6wLWweeefNfhQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR05MB7037B82A1EB459A7EB4C2C4EDF7C0@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

My 'Quick' answers (TL;DR version below):
1.  Think about VPNs for secure access and 'freedom' to connect to various devices in various ways all through an encrypted tunnel.  By freedom I mean avoiding weird port forwarding rules and such in the firewalls.  We use OpenVPN heavily in the VTGS, with our firewalls running the server side (look into pfSense for an awesome firewall solution with native OpenVPN support).
2.  Numato Relays for low voltage control ((https://numato.com/product/8-channel-ethernet-relay-module).  Both a webserver interface and a low level telnet interface for control through external programs.  We use it to control things like LNA power, Polarization switch control, radio power (SDRs for us), tracking control box power, etc. (We also use a IP controllable AC strip, but mainly for the 'nuke it from orbit' solution if we need to power cycle something).  For anything high current the numato relays also offer extra digital I/O ports on the same relay boards via standard 0.1 inch headers that can be used to control things like high current FET switches (W6PQL has a good example:  https://www.w6pql.com/high_current_solid-state_dc_switch.htm).  This might be handy for things like controlling rig power if it sucks more current during TX than the numato relays can handle.
3.  'rigctl' and 'rotctl' for controlling radios and rotators (respectively).  Lots of support out there.  As mentioned, SatNOGS is a good resource for this.  Both can run on an RPi with USB style interfaces to the Rig / Rotator control box.  We use IP controllable systems at VT (mostly Spid MD-01s) which can be controlled by rotctl or via custom software.
4.  We used to use 'ffmpeg' as an audio streaming server (winner of the 'lowest latency' contest when we were searching for this kind of solution, compared to things like 'icecast').  On the 'receive side' we just used VLC media player.  A low cost USB audio card + an RPi (I think the RPi jack was only audio out, no mic in, but I could be wrong about that) could work for the audio connection to a HW rig.  PulseAudio has a great interface for setting up the audio routing and loopbacks and such if you need them (it's a bit like a swiss army knife for this sort of thing).  There are also a few other low level command line utilities, and some cripting might make it easier to set up a two way connection.  There are also some remote desktop utilities that include audio features.  I think the one we used for a while was 'NoMachine' but we switched to 'X2Go' so that we could play games with GPU accelerated FFTs and OpenGL rendering (for gr-fosphor spectrum displays for those curious) that didn't work over other remote desktop solutions.  There are probably a lot newer solutions for this now (its been a few years since we've messed with audio streaming).
5.  Almost all of the VTGS code is on Github:  https://github.com/vt-gs.  There might be some nuggets buried in there useful for you (maybe the relay control code and/or the Spid control code if you want to do it with python, Eagle/Kicad boards for PA control and the companion network control software, etc.).  Fair warning, its constantly changing and is pretty specific to our system, but still you might find something useful there.


TL;DR version:
Most of our setup at the VT ground station is remote over IP connections (even our VHF/UHF PA system).  We use SDRs + GNU Radio, so its also a little different compared to folks using HW radios.  Its pretty non-standard and constantly changing, and I don't have an 'easy' diagram to share (more like a few hundred slides of the evolution over the years).  At a super high level, we run everything on a LAN at the tracking station and then remotely connect to it over VPN connections.  From there the remote system can then access individual servers/devices over SSH, through low level message passing protocols (RMQ and/or ZeroMQ),and even lower level TCP/UDP sockets, etc. etc.  Using the VPN is 1) secure and 2) avoids crazy weird firewall rules for port forwarding.

For the remote power control, we also use a remote (IP) controllable AC strip.  I use this for the 'high level' remote power control and typically a human is accessing it and controlling things through the built in webserver.  For 'lower level' power control (typically DC) I use IP controllable relays from Numato Relay (https://numato.com/product/8-channel-ethernet-relay-module).  They have a nifty built in webserver as well as an interface over telnet (a little archaic, but easily interfaced with using Python modules) for control from external programs.  We mostly only run low voltage/low current devices through these relays, like LNAs, Polarization control, USRP power (the SDRs we use, 6VDC), the 15VDC supply to the MD01 so we can turn the tracker off (NOT the 24V motor supply!), etc. etc.  We don't do things like TX/RX sequencing with this, mainly due to latency concerns over a network, and that is handled by the transmitter 'deck' that has interfaces into things like the LNA PTT lines.

For tracking control, we also use IP addressable systems.  In our case its mostly Spid MD-01s with the Ethernet module add on.  We also use serial to IP converters and a 'faux-yaesu' interface  (basically an Arduino and some circuitry that emulates the yaesu interface box) for controlling some yaesu rotators.  If I could start over, I would have thought more about using things like 'rotctl' and 'rigctl'.  Problem with that for us at VT is we work with something like 10 different manufacturers' versions of 'tracking pedestals' that are never likely to be supported by rotctl because most aren't for Amateur Radio (like FLIR and MOOG systems), but we are working towards a unified 'tracking daemon' that has to account for all flavors of PTU.  As mentioned, SatNOGS has good stuff on this front.

For the specific issue of audio streaming, I have only come up with two 'workable' solutions over the years, though it has been a while.  The main issue was latency.  A lot of the solutions at the time were fine for like podcast streaming where some delay was no big deal (like 'icecast'), but SUPER frustrating if trying to tune by ear for a linear bird on sideband (you'd tune....then like 30 seconds later you'd hear the audio change).  We finally settled on 'ffmpeg' for the audio streaming 'server'.  For the receive side I just used VLC media player.  I think ffmpeg has been absorbed into other open source audio projects, but I can't remember which one off the top of my head.  The other solution was actually a remote desktop solution called 'NoMachine'.  It was a little cludgy at the time, but it was remote desktop combined with audio support and the audio latency was imperceptible.  All of this was 5+ years ago, and as already mentioned, there are probably a lot better solutions out there.  In all cases I'd recommend '

Finally, almost all our code is on Github (and eventually our documentation will be as well).  Feel free to take a look, but fair warning, its constantly changing and pretty specific to our system.  There might be nuggets in there that are useful to you though (like the Numato Relay control stuff if you go that route and you want to control them through Python, or python code for controlling MD-01s/Spid rotators):  https://github.com/vt-gs

Good Luck!  Feel free to reach out (on or off list) if you have more questions about any of the above!

-Zach, KJ4QLP

P.S.  I just realized the TL;DR version is about as long as the 'quick' version.....sorry.

-- 
Research Associate
Aerospace & Ocean Systems Lab
Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
Work Phone: 540-231-4174
Cell Phone: 540-808-6305




From bruce at perens.com  Fri Jul 17 20:32:17 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 13:32:17 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Testing
In-Reply-To: <CH2PR12MB3893F527D1B399EE65F861CCA97C0@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <19c6fd82-7965-23e1-0553-3f27506ba622@charter.net>
	<CALx_moT1DPKk5Zr+rLt54Rm9Zdy=yyonjHa0JQ2NTcNy4R4X9A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtz55S5Hisbb765z65ZQ=rLt+p_AMyAwMzrGj-HjKSABg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CH2PR12MB3893F527D1B399EE65F861CCA97C0@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOs4zGwkBDRKyNMaShSTTKbgoOtA67WSM4PXm0iT2WJHGQ@mail.gmail.com>

Bob McGwier's credentials exceed anyone on the board except for Tom Clark,
who is stepping down and has endorsed Bob to replace him. Howie is pretty
highly achieved in the satellite world, and I am intrigued by Jeff's
background in Kaizen. This stuff has taken over companies to an astonishing
degree, and gives them a way to rationally manage processes that we did not
understand how to manage before.

These folks are not *just *new blood.

    Thanks

    Bruce

>

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 17 20:41:11 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 13:41:11 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <CH2PR12MB3893DEE9132C4692F862B7C1A97C0@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <mailman.6595.1594607750.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<CAM42373tYrrqGbg3e82LWVzvTMa468eG08Jy7taBdxVUN_Px-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtaYqGL78Pa03AC=a3fFLz9V6=ydrxPk6mB1_21yN_zPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CH2PR12MB3893DEE9132C4692F862B7C1A97C0@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <87170a10-2b8e-4fb3-90ae-58d29d1e7b88@yahoo.com>

Chad,

The use of RROO assumes that one understands civility & will act accordingly.? lol

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 17, 2020, 13:26, at 13:26, Chad KG0MW via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>Roberts Rules of Order are a great guideline. But they do not teach you
>how to socially interact with one another or how to gain the trust of
>someone..
>
>
>C
>
>
>?On 7/13/20, 8:26 AM, "AMSAT-BB on behalf of Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB"
><amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org on behalf of amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>    Paul,
>
>Roberts Rules are regarding parliamentary procedure. AMSAT's bylaws are
>at
>https://www.amsat.org/bylaws-of-the-radio-amateur-satellite-corporation/
>.
>    They do not specify parliamentary procedure. They are about
>responsibilities of a director, elections, etc. And if you have the
>choice,
>    Roberts is an antique, good parliamentarians use Sturgis.
>
>    Bruce
>
>    On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:12 PM Paul F. Merrill via AMSAT-BB <
>    amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> I agree that this mailing list has strayed from its strongest
>contribution:
>    > satellite information, discussion, and mentoring.
>    >
>> I come from, and have been on the BOD of, a professional organization
>for a
>    > number of years now.
>    >
>> FWIW, I know too well that an organization often lawyers up to
>protect
>> itself, and in our issues, our attorney was engaged to act solely on
>behalf
>    > of the Organization and not necessarily current management.
>    >
>> This thread has turned in to a long, ugly diatribe filled with
>accusations,
>> counter-accusations, and painfully-obvious shills.  I am a
>recently-renewed
>> member who doesn?t have a dog in the fight, so I just want what?s
>best for
>    > AMSAT.
>    >
>> Sadly, the stereotypes are starting to show - the members who
>contribute
>> nothing but want to tear down those ?In power,? the members who
>contribute
>> nothing and don?t want anyone to make waves, and the few who actually
>do
>> anything.  As a number of people have commented, working in a
>non-profit or
>> unpaid leadership role is utterly thankless, which is lost on many
>people -
>    > especially those who have never labored in this sort of endeavor.
>    >
>> My favorite story from our times of trouble is when our
>Parliamentarian
>> said, ?Roberts Rules are the last refuge of a scoundrel.  Grown men
>and
>> women should be able to comport themselves reasonably...but then I?d
>be out
>> of a job.?   I?m taking a little license with his exact words, but
>the
>> sentiment, along with my experience, formed my native distrust of
>those who
>> are right and everyone and everything before them is wrong. 
>So...there?s
>> my bias.  I will examine that, and all the information I can before I
>> vote.  I hope everyone else will take the time and expend the effort
>to
>    > vote as intelligently as they can.
>    >
>> My overriding guidance to my Association is that we contribute to the
>group
> > so that we all benefit from the group.  A strong organization should
>    > outlive us.
>    >
>   > Personally, I can?t wait to vote and hopefully put a fork in this.
>    >
>    > Paul / W7IV
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    > ????????-
>    >
>    > Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 19:27:24 -0700
>    > From: "Daron Wilson" <daron at wilson.org>
>    > To: "'AMSAT BB'" <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>    > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
>    > Message-ID: <00b501d658bd$26119cc0$7234d640$@org>
>    > Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="utf-8"
>    >
>    > Is there a bulletin board that discusses amateur radio satellites
>    > operations still?   Asking for a friend.  This is getting old.
>    >
>    >
>    > Daron N7HQR
>    > _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions
>    > expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of
>    > AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>> Subscription settings:
>https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>    >
>    _______________________________________________
>  Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From chad.kg0mw at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 20:52:19 2020
From: chad.kg0mw at gmail.com (Chad KG0MW)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 20:52:19 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <87170a10-2b8e-4fb3-90ae-58d29d1e7b88@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.6595.1594607750.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<CAM42373tYrrqGbg3e82LWVzvTMa468eG08Jy7taBdxVUN_Px-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOtaYqGL78Pa03AC=a3fFLz9V6=ydrxPk6mB1_21yN_zPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CH2PR12MB3893DEE9132C4692F862B7C1A97C0@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
	<87170a10-2b8e-4fb3-90ae-58d29d1e7b88@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CH2PR12MB38932406F6935F1338CAC866A97C0@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

You are right about that!

C


From: W3AB/GEO <w3ab at yahoo.com>
Date: Friday, July 17, 2020 at 3:41 PM
To: Chad KG0MW <chad.kg0mw at gmail.com>
Cc: Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com>, "Paul F. Merrill" <marinesvcs at gmail.com>, Amsat BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read

Chad,
The use of RROO assumes that one understands civility & will act accordingly.  lol
___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO
On Jul 17, 2020, at 13:26, Chad KG0MW via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org<mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>> wrote:

Roberts Rules of Order are a great guideline. But they do not teach you how to socially interact with one another or how to gain the trust of someone..


C


?On 7/13/20, 8:26 AM, "AMSAT-BB on behalf of Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org on behalf of amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

    Paul,

    Roberts Rules are regarding parliamentary procedure. AMSAT's bylaws are at
    https://www.amsat.org/bylaws-of-the-radio-amateur-satellite-corporation/ .
    They do not specify parliamentary procedure. They are about
    responsibilities of a director, elections, etc. And if you have the choice,
    Roberts is an antique, good parliamentarians use Sturgis.

    Bruce

    On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:12 PM Paul F. Merrill via AMSAT-BB <
    amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

 I agree that this mailing list has strayed from its strongest contribution:
 satellite information, discussion, and mentoring.

 I come from, and have been on the BOD of, a professional organization for a
 number of years now.

 FWIW, I know too well that an organization often lawyers up to protect
 itself, and in our issues, our attorney was engaged to act solely on behalf
 of the Organization and not necessarily current management.

 This thread has turned in to a long, ugly diatribe filled with accusations,
 counter-accusations, and painfully-obvious shills.  I am a recently-renewed
 member who doesn?t have a dog in the fight, so I just want what?s best for
 AMSAT.

 Sadly, the stereotypes are starting to show - the members who contribute
 nothing but want to tear down those ?In power,? the members who contribute
 nothing and don?t want anyone to make waves, and the few who actually do
 anything.  As a number of people have commented, working in a non-profit or
 unpaid leadership role is utterly thankless, which is lost on many people -
 especially those who have never labored in this sort of endeavor.

 My favorite story from our times of trouble is when our Parliamentarian
 said, ?Roberts Rules are the last refuge of a scoundrel.  Grown men and
 women should be able to comport themselves reasonably...but then I?d be out
 of a job.?   I?m taking a little license with his exact words, but the
 sentiment, along with my experience, formed my native distrust of those who
 are right and everyone and everything before them is wrong.  So...there?s
 my bias.  I will examine that, and all the information I can before I
 vote.  I hope everyone else will take the time and expend the effort to
 vote as intelligently as they can.

 My overriding guidance to my Association is that we contribute to the group
 so that we all benefit from the group.  A strong organization should
 outlive us.

 Personally, I can?t wait to vote and hopefully put a fork in this.

 Paul / W7IV



 ????????-

 Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 19:27:24 -0700
 From: "Daron Wilson" <daron at wilson.org>
 To: "'AMSAT BB'" <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
 Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
 Message-ID: <00b501d658bd$26119cc0$7234d640$@org>
 Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="utf-8"

 Is there a bulletin board that discusses amateur radio satellites
 operations still?   Asking for a friend.  This is getting old.


 Daron N7HQR

________________________________

 Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
 to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
 expressed
 are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
 AMSAT-NA.
 Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
 Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb



________________________________

    Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
    to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
    are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
    Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
    Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

________________________________

Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From peter at magicbug.co.uk  Fri Jul 17 20:53:03 2020
From: peter at magicbug.co.uk (Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL))
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 21:53:03 +0100
Subject: [amsat-bb] request detailed system diagram for remoting a
 satellite station
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOuJsbTNmdjbi4SoUr9zTVFnmkn91tfdC6wLWweeefNfhQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56d8bc10-2c78-abe5-a15a-de2b6c22d143@charter.net>
	<CAK2MWOuJsbTNmdjbi4SoUr9zTVFnmkn91tfdC6wLWweeefNfhQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFvUaiog+bhwTMV+2YEK3iboRyxqqECFCymtsshZCVTSPC4pMQ@mail.gmail.com>

Sadly Satnogs isn't suitable for the job being it's for telemetry only,
also I don't believe it forwards telemetry to AMSAT-NA or AMSAT-UK so radio
amateurs would be better off with a different solution.

Sadly ICOMs remote software isn't that great for satellite work, I'd also
love to see a better remote solution even if it's just for working passes
in a different room in the house.

Peter, 2M0SQL

On Fri, 17 Jul 2020, 20:56 Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB, <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Study SatNOGS. I haven't looked for a while and it was mostly receive-only
> when I did, but they have hardware and software to make a good start. Plus,
> any remote station should participate in the SatNOGS network when otherwise
> not in use.
>
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 12:09 PM David J. Schmocker via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > Does anyone have a detailed system diagram (or interconnect drawing)
> > showing how they have remoted a satellite station please?   Specifically
> > which parts of the system require IP-addressable power on/off, etc.
> >
> >
> > I am in the process of constructing a new satellite station for U/V
> > linear use at Milwaukee Area Technical College (where I teach).   Our
> > Data Communication and Networking class introduces satellite technology
> > which I plan to demonstrate live.
> >
> > Because the hours of access to the building are limited, and because we
> > teach Data Communication and Networking from two campuses (but have
> > Satellite station at only one), remoting this station would be desirable.
> >
> > I have an APC IP-addressable power strip (117vac) and some power relays
> > if we need 220vac switched, an IC-9700, two high-power switchable LNAs
> > (2m and 70cm), antennas (20 element RHCP for 2m and 16 Turn G3RUH Helix
> > for 70cm), and a Yaesu 5500 rotor with Green Heron Az/El controller
> > (I'll bring Heliax from home to get to the rooftop).   Hopefully our
> > city campus location is not overly noisy.      I plan to construct the
> > HEO-ready station as soon as I can be back on campus to do this.
> >
> > One specific area of concern: how to pass audio over internet. I've
> > heard Skype and some other vehicles have problematic latency but I have
> > yet to remote any station to use 'near real-time audio' for CW or SSB
> > QSOs so I lack experience with this.  The satellite computer
> > (controlling antennas and managing Doppler) is a Mac mini running
> > MacLoggerDX and MacDoppler software.
> >
> > If helpful, I have two surplus new Raspberry Pi 3s (new and unused) that
> > could be repurposed for part of this if helpful.
> >
> > You'll be happy to know I've been reading the mail and I know to first
> > listen and test so we Tx with minimum power.  But as a satellite newby,
> > I'm sure I'll need abundant guidance when we get QRV.
> >
> > Any detailed system diagrams (could be off-list directly to me) showing
> > how you built and configured such a remote station satellite system
> > would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > very 73,
> >
> > Dave KJ9I
> > KD9BOG (at work)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
>
>
> --
> Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
> :-)
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From bruce at perens.com  Fri Jul 17 20:59:51 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 13:59:51 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] NASA and Open Source
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c8Y_VMAGMB3sU4hxSfkC5=2tFSoZaCgOudX9pOi-eD8qw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK2MWOvuxvUC+pGkLsWG4G=ERWb=4ZMP-gahVV7FMb5X9Zd9sg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c8Y_VMAGMB3sU4hxSfkC5=2tFSoZaCgOudX9pOi-eD8qw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOufEZfVtV44wVTdpm+bA7kvWqechS4WZdsBJ55am-qbQw@mail.gmail.com>

Joseph,

You need to consider what the alternatives are. In the case of the United
States Government, being able to make their own flavor, even if they have
to hire a contractor to do it, is tremendously reassuring. If someone has
bad intentions in the Open Source world, or writes pernicious code, people
*see* it. My experience in being an officer of a Fortune 100 proprietary
software company, and having many proprietary software companies as
customers, is that disgruntled employees and their deliberate or accidental
code issues are part of every proprietary software product, and remain
secret. I have been paid big bucks to clean this stuff up during one
company's IPO. What was there would have sunk them if ever discovered.

Government proprietary software customers have to work hard just to get the
right to examine proprietary software, maybe in a controlled room with
severe constraints on their action. A really big concern for the United
States Government right now is that the ICs that they buy actually perform
as specified and do not contain deliberate surprises. The reality for them
is that 100% disclosure and tracing of processes is essential. Open Source
provides a good way to do it. All of the other alternatives provide a
significantly larger administrative load.

    Thanks

    Bruce

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 1:28 PM Joseph Armbruster <
josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:

> Bruce,
>
> Yeah, NASA (and other government agencies) have been promoting OSS for
> quite some time and some even have some long-standing projects, ref:
> WorldWind.  And something worth noting, is that with the government,
> what they mean by OSS can sometimes be misleading.  There is GOTS
> (Government Off The Shelf) OSS and non-GOTS OSS.  Meaning, it could be
> regular OSS lib, but accessible only in a repository that is only
> accessible by government contractors / programs that have a need, and
> never really return code to the public domain (but do maintain
> changes).  This is quite commonplace.  I am not sure if that's what
> they mean in this case of the grant, specifically.  NASAs WorldWind,
> has source repositories in the public domain and has for many years (I
> may be in the commit logs somewhere), so some definitely do work that
> way.
>
> Projects like GDAL have benefited greatly from government / OSS
> integration.  But then, you have situations like LAS Tools Right Now,
> where the main developer purportedly made some kind of a threat about
> adding malicious code to it, so gov agencies are asking everyone to
> immediately uninstall QGIS (open source GIS package, that utilizes las
> tools out of the box).  I don't know if this has been validated but
> you can find bits and pieces around the net about it.  Which brings me
> to my next point.
>
> Sometimes, if you're working a government contract and you want to use
> a particular OSS library, they do not allow you to just download it
> and use it.  You can however, purchase it through a trusted
> third-party company.  All due to liability issues.  As a result, you
> can literally burn, box and sell, literally Free software.  The
> problem is, what if libtiff pokes a hole in the firewall every three
> image opens?  And, don't laugh, i've seen weird stuff happen over the
> years.  The funniest, was an API function to "create a folder" at a
> path, that, if the folder already exists, it would actually traverse
> the folder and delete all files / folders found underneath it.  No
> joke.  Now, due to some bad // \\ path handling in the lib, when
> passed a path like this: C://something//and//some//place, it
> accidentally started wiping everything in the root of the C:/ drive.
> The first tool user that experienced that, was not a happy camper :-)
> The OSS path handling lib wasn't explicitly malicious, it was just bad
> path handling in the lib causing the problem, but bygons.  Liability
> is a royal PITA.
>
> Joseph Armbruster
> KJ4JIO
>
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 2:18 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > I am reading a NASA Grant application today, and noticed this text:
> >
> > Program elements will give preference to proposals that include a plan
> for
> > committing
> > software as Open Source Software (OSS), beginning at the inception of the
> > proposed
> > work. This plan will include the identification of software components
> > developed as part
> > of the proposed work, and designate a permissive, widely accepted OSS
> > license and a
> > public repository hosting service for these components.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)

From chad.kg0mw at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 21:01:19 2020
From: chad.kg0mw at gmail.com (Chad KG0MW)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 21:01:19 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <9BED4E43-B35F-474B-A3AC-D7667D48E3F6@mac.com>
References: <mailman.7403.1595015190.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<9BED4E43-B35F-474B-A3AC-D7667D48E3F6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CH2PR12MB389370B9BCEB7AB01A303E48A97C0@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

I like watermelons. The board even has stated that the legal funds DID NOT come from memberships dues.



?On 7/17/20, 3:52 PM, "AMSAT-BB on behalf of Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org on behalf of AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> wrote:

    Why are you comparing the legal expenditures with membership fees?

    Di you discover that membership fees were used in any manner for those expenses?

    If not, then why don?t we compare that amount with, say, Apples or Watermelons?





    > On Jul 17, 2020, at 12:46 PM, amsat-bb-request at amsat.org wrote:
    > 
    >>  Now we learn that the expenditure is over 16k. That is 363 memberships, if this retired engineer's math is correct. 

    _______________________________________________
    Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
    to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
    are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
    Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
    Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From framirezferrer at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 21:10:22 2020
From: framirezferrer at gmail.com (Fernando Ramirez)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 14:10:22 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <9BED4E43-B35F-474B-A3AC-D7667D48E3F6@mac.com>
References: <mailman.7403.1595015190.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<9BED4E43-B35F-474B-A3AC-D7667D48E3F6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAGHXx8hCnBvAXzZEvit-SfUQJEM27dnr9rvJCmgDOzkDZk4WHQ@mail.gmail.com>

In most (or actually, all) non-profit organizations I have been involved
with, unless money is expressly donated for a particular program or
purpose, everything goes into a general fund.

Was there a donor who gave money for the specific purpose of looking for a
legal way to get rid or punish a member? Or to stonewall information
requests from duly elected directors?

Yes, the connection of legal expenses to membership dues is valid and, let
me tell you, concerning.

KF7R

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 1:52 PM Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Why are you comparing the legal expenditures with membership fees?
>
> Di you discover that membership fees were used in any manner for those
> expenses?
>
> If not, then why don?t we compare that amount with, say, Apples or
> Watermelons?
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 17, 2020, at 12:46 PM, amsat-bb-request at amsat.org wrote:
> >
> >>  Now we learn that the expenditure is over 16k. That is 363
> memberships, if this retired engineer's math is correct.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From robert.machale at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 17 21:30:13 2020
From: robert.machale at yahoo.com (Robert MacHale)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 21:30:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Websites Down ? amsat.org and parens.com
References: <1211673969.3408811.1595021413946.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1211673969.3408811.1595021413946@mail.yahoo.com>

Am I the only one having trouble accessing these websites?
If this is an attack against either group - I strongly disapprove of this type of hacking.
Bruce - is everything okay?
Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration


From KA9QJG at COMCAST.NET  Fri Jul 17 21:29:49 2020
From: KA9QJG at COMCAST.NET (KA9QJG)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 16:29:49 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Oscar Sub Band Freq Infio
Message-ID: <00d601d65c81$674610f0$35d232d0$@COMCAST.NET>

Hello from Don KA9QJG   Ham for over 40 yrs.  Hope Everyone is staying Safe
and Healthy..  I hope its ok to change the ongoing thread.. I have heard
some New Hams using the Oscar sub bands for FM Simplex.  Below Is the ARRL
Band Chart Now   Reads  New 

 


144.30-144.50

New OSCAR subband

 


145.80-146.00

OSCAR subband

 

They are using Freq 144.315 FM Simplex. One was telling a story over 25 yrs
ago they were using this Freq and a complaint was made to the FCC He got a
Letter from the FCC  . And He called respond the complaint and told the FCC
that this was the Old Oscar Sub band that had not been used since the
sixties Sats were Not up and working anymore.   And the FCC Said do not
worry about the complaint.   So after listening to all this on 144.315 over
a long time I thought the best place to get a real answer would be here. 

 

Thanks everyone Please Stay Safe and Healthy

73 At 73     Be careful Old Age is catching LOL

 

Don KA9QJG

 

 

 

2 Meters (144-148 MHz)


144.00-144.05

EME (CW)


144.05-144.10

General CW and weak signals


144.10-144.20

EME and weak-signal SSB


144.200

National calling frequency


144.200-144.275

General SSB operation


144.275-144.300

Propagation beacons


144.30-144.50

New OSCAR subband


144.50-144.60

Linear translator inputs


144.60-144.90

FM repeater inputs


144.90-145.10

Weak signal and FM simplex (145.01,03,05,07,09 are widely used for packet)


145.10-145.20

Linear translator outputs


145.20-145.50

FM repeater outputs


145.50-145.80

Miscellaneous and experimental modes


145.80-146.00

OSCAR subband


146.01-146.37

Repeater inputs


146.40-146.58

Simplex


146.52

National Simplex Calling Frequency


146.61-146.97

Repeater outputs


147.00-147.39

Repeater outputs


147.42-147.57

Simplex


147.60-147.99

Repeater inputs

Notes: The frequency 146.40 MHz is used in some areas as a repeater input.
This band plan has been proposed by the ARRL VHF-UHF Advisory Committee.

 

 

 


From robert.machale at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 17 21:34:06 2020
From: robert.machale at yahoo.com (Robert MacHale)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 21:34:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Typo Correction - Websites Down ? amsat.org and
	perens.com
In-Reply-To: <1211673969.3408811.1595021413946@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1211673969.3408811.1595021413946.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1211673969.3408811.1595021413946@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1115184835.3411460.1595021646558@mail.yahoo.com>

perens.comamsat.org
Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration

Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff! 

   ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Robert MacHale <robert.machale at yahoo.com>To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020, 02:30:13 PM PDTSubject: Websites Down ? amsat.org and parens.com
 Am I the only one having trouble accessing these websites?
If this is an attack against either group - I strongly disapprove of this type of hacking.
Bruce - is everything okay?
Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration

  

From bruce at perens.com  Fri Jul 17 21:11:41 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 14:11:41 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] request detailed system diagram for remoting a
 satellite station
In-Reply-To: <CAFvUaiog+bhwTMV+2YEK3iboRyxqqECFCymtsshZCVTSPC4pMQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56d8bc10-2c78-abe5-a15a-de2b6c22d143@charter.net>
	<CAK2MWOuJsbTNmdjbi4SoUr9zTVFnmkn91tfdC6wLWweeefNfhQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFvUaiog+bhwTMV+2YEK3iboRyxqqECFCymtsshZCVTSPC4pMQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOsJFRf=ujnMEC49yjQ=MOGxYMDLtwNpN-0mn3b8f2sgCw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 1:53 PM Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) <
peter at magicbug.co.uk> wrote:

> Sadly Satnogs isn't suitable for the job being it's for telemetry only,
> amateurs would be better off with a different solution.
>

You can download every bit of telemetry AND the un-demodulated audio. If
AMSAT isn't getting it, they aren't trying.
Most of the ground stations are identified in the SatNOGS system by their
Amateur callsigns. Look at https://network.satnogs.org/stations/
This is definitely the largest Amateur ground-station network. And since it
is Open Source, if it does not do something you wish to do, you can
extend it.

    Thanks

    Bruce

From robert.machale at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 17 21:38:23 2020
From: robert.machale at yahoo.com (Robert MacHale)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 21:38:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Disregard - Apparently Working Now : Typo Correction -
 Websites Down ? amsat.org and perens.com
In-Reply-To: <1115184835.3411460.1595021646558@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1211673969.3408811.1595021413946.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1211673969.3408811.1595021413946@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1115184835.3411460.1595021646558@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <609628130.3408217.1595021903147@mail.yahoo.com>



Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration

Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff! 

   ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Robert MacHale <robert.machale at yahoo.com>To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020, 02:34:06 PM PDTSubject: Typo Correction - Websites Down ? amsat.org and perens.com
 perens.comamsat.org
Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration

Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff! 

   ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Robert MacHale <robert.machale at yahoo.com>To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020, 02:30:13 PM PDTSubject: Websites Down ? amsat.org and parens.com
 Am I the only one having trouble accessing these websites?
If this is an attack against either group - I strongly disapprove of this type of hacking.
Bruce - is everything okay?
Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration

    

From bruce at perens.com  Fri Jul 17 21:52:41 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 14:52:41 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <9BED4E43-B35F-474B-A3AC-D7667D48E3F6@mac.com>
References: <mailman.7403.1595015190.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<9BED4E43-B35F-474B-A3AC-D7667D48E3F6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOt1vURvBbBDK4WnA-QQMzK9AXkJ2RhNNZJEH5YqhTHUSg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 1:46 PM Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Why are you comparing the legal expenditures with membership fees?


It all goes in the same bank account. It might be that Yasme Foundation,
the ARRL Foundation, or ARDC inadvertently gave the money for this. They
would be upset if they did. In which case that might provide one reason
that their latest grants are to ORI.

So, we might say it's some hundreds of memberships, or 1/2 Yasme grant or 8
ARRL Foundation grants, or 150 President's Circle Basic contributions or  a
piece of our US Government forgivable loan.

But it's all the same money, in the same bank account. We can't really wave
hands about whether it is memberships, donations, or grants, or the
loan to *paper
over the impact of this money being spent unwisely.*

From peter at magicbug.co.uk  Fri Jul 17 21:54:54 2020
From: peter at magicbug.co.uk (Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL))
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 22:54:54 +0100
Subject: [amsat-bb] request detailed system diagram for remoting a
 satellite station
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOsJFRf=ujnMEC49yjQ=MOGxYMDLtwNpN-0mn3b8f2sgCw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56d8bc10-2c78-abe5-a15a-de2b6c22d143@charter.net>
	<CAK2MWOuJsbTNmdjbi4SoUr9zTVFnmkn91tfdC6wLWweeefNfhQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFvUaiog+bhwTMV+2YEK3iboRyxqqECFCymtsshZCVTSPC4pMQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOsJFRf=ujnMEC49yjQ=MOGxYMDLtwNpN-0mn3b8f2sgCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFvUairUFZvf6dpQpMFvP58gBNcYo9a3uDBdpkpUNS27DVHDaw@mail.gmail.com>

While I get your pro-open source, and I've plenty code-shared that is,
my point was really that its not suited for what dave wants todo out
the box, unless he wanted to build in bidirectional audio streaming
and other functions that would be needed for using it on linear and FM
transponders.

I totally get its open source and a large network, I do have some
personal concerns regarding the system, but that really isn't the
topic of this email thread.

Peter.

On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 at 22:39, Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 1:53 PM Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) <peter at magicbug.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Sadly Satnogs isn't suitable for the job being it's for telemetry only, amateurs would be better off with a different solution.
>
>
> You can download every bit of telemetry AND the un-demodulated audio. If AMSAT isn't getting it, they aren't trying.
> Most of the ground stations are identified in the SatNOGS system by their Amateur callsigns. Look at https://network.satnogs.org/stations/
> This is definitely the largest Amateur ground-station network. And since it is Open Source, if it does not do something you wish to do, you can
> extend it.
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Bruce

From curt.laumann at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 21:59:54 2020
From: curt.laumann at gmail.com (Curt Laumann)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 14:59:54 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] request detailed system diagram for remoting a
 satellite station
In-Reply-To: <56d8bc10-2c78-abe5-a15a-de2b6c22d143@charter.net>
References: <56d8bc10-2c78-abe5-a15a-de2b6c22d143@charter.net>
Message-ID: <CAD7_4hw+uyUqkyeHRQ8OJjAKCoT6d61MhL24gJmgEkR0uufUoQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Dave,

We have a similar situation at the University of Arizona: we are also
moving towards remote control.  Even before the campus virus shutdown
elevated the priority of  remote operation, I concluded that a directional
satellite system is not optimal for K7UAZ -- given the consistent scarcity
of volunteer labor available to maintain a directional antenna system.
This fall K7UAZ will be migrating to a set of omni, circularly polarized
antennas with preamplifiers.  Not that controlling az/el rotors is overly
complicated, but this change does help make remote operation even easier.

Regards,

Curt / K7ZOO
K7UAZ Station Manager

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 12:09 PM David J. Schmocker via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Does anyone have a detailed system diagram (or interconnect drawing)
> showing how they have remoted a satellite station please?   Specifically
> which parts of the system require IP-addressable power on/off, etc.
>
>
> I am in the process of constructing a new satellite station for U/V
> linear use at Milwaukee Area Technical College (where I teach).   Our
> Data Communication and Networking class introduces satellite technology
> which I plan to demonstrate live.
>
> Because the hours of access to the building are limited, and because we
> teach Data Communication and Networking from two campuses (but have
> Satellite station at only one), remoting this station would be desirable.
>
> I have an APC IP-addressable power strip (117vac) and some power relays
> if we need 220vac switched, an IC-9700, two high-power switchable LNAs
> (2m and 70cm), antennas (20 element RHCP for 2m and 16 Turn G3RUH Helix
> for 70cm), and a Yaesu 5500 rotor with Green Heron Az/El controller
> (I'll bring Heliax from home to get to the rooftop).   Hopefully our
> city campus location is not overly noisy.      I plan to construct the
> HEO-ready station as soon as I can be back on campus to do this.
>
> One specific area of concern: how to pass audio over internet. I've
> heard Skype and some other vehicles have problematic latency but I have
> yet to remote any station to use 'near real-time audio' for CW or SSB
> QSOs so I lack experience with this.  The satellite computer
> (controlling antennas and managing Doppler) is a Mac mini running
> MacLoggerDX and MacDoppler software.
>
> If helpful, I have two surplus new Raspberry Pi 3s (new and unused) that
> could be repurposed for part of this if helpful.
>
> You'll be happy to know I've been reading the mail and I know to first
> listen and test so we Tx with minimum power.  But as a satellite newby,
> I'm sure I'll need abundant guidance when we get QRV.
>
> Any detailed system diagrams (could be off-list directly to me) showing
> how you built and configured such a remote station satellite system
> would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you
>
> very 73,
>
> Dave KJ9I
> KD9BOG (at work)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From peter at magicbug.co.uk  Fri Jul 17 22:03:36 2020
From: peter at magicbug.co.uk (Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL))
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 23:03:36 +0100
Subject: [amsat-bb] NASA and Open Source
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOvuxvUC+pGkLsWG4G=ERWb=4ZMP-gahVV7FMb5X9Zd9sg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK2MWOvuxvUC+pGkLsWG4G=ERWb=4ZMP-gahVV7FMb5X9Zd9sg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFvUairUptXGLqv0vLpiM4ObqaqcQSx=nUXA-Rn3Rn-tot8YXQ@mail.gmail.com>

Bruce,

I totally get your pro-open source, but it seems to be every email
thread, I'd sure hope that AMSAT Engineering was aware of that clause.

Being lots of educational CubeSats use COTS parts, isn't it likely
that most would be only open sourcing the ground station elements
which might come under "Open Source Software" and be suitable for
NASA's guidelines, while AMSAT doesn't to my knowledge release gerber
pcb files it does release a good amount of ground station code, think
Fox Telem is open source and as others have pointed out there's other
projects shared on Github relating to AMSAT satellites.

Peter, 2M0SQL

On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 at 19:15, Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> I am reading a NASA Grant application today, and noticed this text:
>
> Program elements will give preference to proposals that include a plan for
> committing
> software as Open Source Software (OSS), beginning at the inception of the
> proposed
> work. This plan will include the identification of software components
> developed as part
> of the proposed work, and designate a permissive, widely accepted OSS
> license and a
> public repository hosting service for these components.
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From k6vug at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jul 17 22:09:47 2020
From: k6vug at sbcglobal.net (k6vug at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 22:09:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] New satellite operator - M7OJA
In-Reply-To: <CADGPg2uPETY4Pze12PAHNG2A6qaiO3JrGU1i4pHv2vR4mb19-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADGPg2uPETY4Pze12PAHNG2A6qaiO3JrGU1i4pHv2vR4mb19-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1372902222.2416079.1595023787114@mail.yahoo.com>

 Try this?? http://www.work-sat.com/Home_files/FM-VOICE-SATS-1Q-2018.pdf 
Hope it helps. 
?
73! 
k6vug 



    On Friday, July 17, 2020, 7:17:34 AM PDT, Roy Dean via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 >
> I would like to try to maximise the time I have to use the satellite. My
> handheld radio (Anytone 868) doesn't have an auto doppler shift, so I am
> wondering how to calculate the doppler frequencies? For example, on this
> link https://amsat-uk.org/beginners/how-to-work-fm-satellites/, all of the
> frequencies are listed to be programmed into a handheld (accounting for
> doppler shift). I would like a similar list of frequencies for the Fox-1D
> (or know how to calculate them). Many Thanks, Oscar M7OJA (IO94HT)


Hi Oscar (very appropriate name for this list!),

If you have a computer or smart phone accessible during the pass, I suggest
opening up the following webpage:

http://www.amsat.org.ar/pass.htm

Set your grid square at the bottom and hit "Resolve and Set New".? Double
check that the little house on the map is on your location.? If that is
correct, simply click on the satellite in the list and the upper right will
change to a display that shows the elevation, azimuth, and current
uplink/downlink at your location.? Then it's simply up to you to change
your uplink and downlink VFO to the closest match of the displayed correct
doppler frequency.

--Roy
K3RLD
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From framirezferrer at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 22:15:38 2020
From: framirezferrer at gmail.com (Fernando Ramirez)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 15:15:38 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <CH2PR12MB389370B9BCEB7AB01A303E48A97C0@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <mailman.7403.1595015190.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<9BED4E43-B35F-474B-A3AC-D7667D48E3F6@mac.com>
	<CH2PR12MB389370B9BCEB7AB01A303E48A97C0@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAGHXx8g4HftXoXuXhfs6h-QGbeYThHa-p0hYcv5nMXKungjGXw@mail.gmail.com>

So, there's a separate funding source for legal services? The point is that
regardless of where it came from, AMSAT paid for it. And it was a wasteful
use of the organization's resources.

KF7R


On Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 3:06 PM Chad KG0MW via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> I like watermelons. The board even has stated that the legal funds DID NOT
> come from memberships dues.
>
>
>
> ?On 7/17/20, 3:52 PM, "AMSAT-BB on behalf of Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB" <
> amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org on behalf of AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>     Why are you comparing the legal expenditures with membership fees?
>
>     Di you discover that membership fees were used in any manner for those
> expenses?
>
>     If not, then why don?t we compare that amount with, say, Apples or
> Watermelons?
>
>
>
>
>
>     > On Jul 17, 2020, at 12:46 PM, amsat-bb-request at amsat.org wrote:
>     >
>     >>  Now we learn that the expenditure is over 16k. That is 363
> memberships, if this retired engineer's math is correct.
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>     to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
>     are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of AMSAT-NA.
>     Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
>     Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From KA9QJG at COMCAST.NET  Fri Jul 17 22:16:19 2020
From: KA9QJG at COMCAST.NET (KA9QJG)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 17:16:19 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] FW: Oscar Sub Band Freq Infio
Message-ID: <00fd01d65c87$ffa28670$fee79350$@COMCAST.NET>

Not Sure  this Went  out

73 Don KA9QJG 

 

From: KA9QJG [mailto:KA9QJG at COMCAST.NET] 
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 4:30 PM
To: 'AMSAT-BB at amsat.org'
Subject: Oscar Sub Band Freq Infio 

 

Hello from Don KA9QJG   Ham for over 40 yrs.  Hope Everyone is staying Safe
and Healthy..  I hope its ok to change the ongoing thread.. I have heard
some New Hams using the Oscar sub bands for FM Simplex.  Below Is the ARRL
Band Chart Now   Reads  New 

 


144.30-144.50

New OSCAR subband

 


145.80-146.00

OSCAR subband

 

They are using Freq 144.315 FM Simplex. One was telling a story over 25 yrs
ago they were using this Freq and a complaint was made to the FCC He got a
Letter from the FCC  . And He called respond the complaint and told the FCC
that this was the Old Oscar Sub band that had not been used since the
sixties Sats were Not up and working anymore.   And the FCC Said do not
worry about the complaint.   So after listening to all this on 144.315 over
a long time I thought the best place to get a real answer would be here. 

 

Thanks everyone Please Stay Safe and Healthy

73 At 73     Be careful Old Age is catching LOL

 

Don KA9QJG

 

 

 

2 Meters (144-148 MHz)


144.00-144.05

EME (CW)


144.05-144.10

General CW and weak signals


144.10-144.20

EME and weak-signal SSB


144.200

National calling frequency


144.200-144.275

General SSB operation


144.275-144.300

Propagation beacons


144.30-144.50

New OSCAR subband


144.50-144.60

Linear translator inputs


144.60-144.90

FM repeater inputs


144.90-145.10

Weak signal and FM simplex (145.01,03,05,07,09 are widely used for packet)


145.10-145.20

Linear translator outputs


145.20-145.50

FM repeater outputs


145.50-145.80

Miscellaneous and experimental modes


145.80-146.00

OSCAR subband


146.01-146.37

Repeater inputs


146.40-146.58

Simplex


146.52

National Simplex Calling Frequency


146.61-146.97

Repeater outputs


147.00-147.39

Repeater outputs


147.42-147.57

Simplex


147.60-147.99

Repeater inputs

Notes: The frequency 146.40 MHz is used in some areas as a repeater input.
This band plan has been proposed by the ARRL VHF-UHF Advisory Committee.

 

 

 


From fgeraci14 at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 22:19:24 2020
From: fgeraci14 at gmail.com (Francis Geraci)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 18:19:24 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Sat radios and G-5500
Message-ID: <CA+QL-dBCD+L6GWxGossD+az7xXjwapHTEQ9+e=KE5JaXsyPaSA@mail.gmail.com>

Anybody interested in:
IC-211
IC-451
IC-821
G-5500
Find me on QRZ Email
Francis - W1FXX -, Marathon,Fl.

From peter at magicbug.co.uk  Fri Jul 17 22:20:31 2020
From: peter at magicbug.co.uk (Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL))
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 23:20:31 +0100
Subject: [amsat-bb] Websites Down ? amsat.org and parens.com
In-Reply-To: <1211673969.3408811.1595021413946@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1211673969.3408811.1595021413946.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1211673969.3408811.1595021413946@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAFvUaio60XQk=BfPoF911g_wGQevH7Os0oWBYq0c4e1YXkv=Zw@mail.gmail.com>

Probably better to wait for facts before saying it was a attack

I suspect they all used Cloudflare DNS which had an outage.

Peter, 2M0SQL

On Fri, 17 Jul 2020, 23:16 Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB, <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Am I the only one having trouble accessing these websites?
> If this is an attack against either group - I strongly disapprove of this
> type of hacking.
> Bruce - is everything okay?
> Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License. http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> . http://www.spaceCommunicator.club
> . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space
> Exploration
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From vk2tfg at ozemail.com.au  Fri Jul 17 22:32:58 2020
From: vk2tfg at ozemail.com.au (vk2tfg)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 08:32:58 +1000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Websites Down ? amsat.org and parens.com
In-Reply-To: <1211673969.3408811.1595021413946@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1211673969.3408811.1595021413946.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1211673969.3408811.1595021413946@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20200718083258.0601a9e6@debian-8-2-0.vk2tfg.ampr.org>

On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 21:30:13 +0000 (UTC)
Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Am I the only one having trouble accessing these websites?
snipped

www.amsat.org is working from here in VK3.

73 de Geoff vk2tfg.

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 17 22:37:17 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 15:37:17 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Websites Down ? amsat.org and parens.com
In-Reply-To: <1211673969.3408811.1595021413946@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1211673969.3408811.1595021413946.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1211673969.3408811.1595021413946@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6948dcb2-011e-448e-b3f0-4187b5967fa0@yahoo.com>

Yes, you are.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 17, 2020, 15:19, at 15:19, Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>Am I the only one having trouble accessing these websites?
>If this is an attack against either group - I strongly disapprove of
>this type of hacking.
>Bruce - is everything okay?
>Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
>.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
>. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space
>Exploration
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From bruce at perens.com  Fri Jul 17 22:44:30 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 15:44:30 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] NASA and Open Source
In-Reply-To: <CAFvUairUptXGLqv0vLpiM4ObqaqcQSx=nUXA-Rn3Rn-tot8YXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK2MWOvuxvUC+pGkLsWG4G=ERWb=4ZMP-gahVV7FMb5X9Zd9sg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFvUairUptXGLqv0vLpiM4ObqaqcQSx=nUXA-Rn3Rn-tot8YXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOvHO779pVjULNiQ4MndDV153W1SW7VOf75QQYnScO=rhg@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry. The problem is not really that AMSAT doesn't do enough open source.
The problem is that AMSAT seems to be  overly constrained in its action.
Open Source is part of an overall strategy we suggest for a cure.

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 3:04 PM Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) <peter at magicbug.co.uk>
wrote:

> Bruce,
>
> I totally get your pro-open source, but it seems to be every email
> thread, I'd sure hope that AMSAT Engineering was aware of that clause.
>
> Being lots of educational CubeSats use COTS parts, isn't it likely
> that most would be only open sourcing the ground station elements
> which might come under "Open Source Software" and be suitable for
> NASA's guidelines, while AMSAT doesn't to my knowledge release gerber
> pcb files it does release a good amount of ground station code, think
> Fox Telem is open source and as others have pointed out there's other
> projects shared on Github relating to AMSAT satellites.
>
> Peter, 2M0SQL
>
> On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 at 19:15, Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > I am reading a NASA Grant application today, and noticed this text:
> >
> > Program elements will give preference to proposals that include a plan
> for
> > committing
> > software as Open Source Software (OSS), beginning at the inception of the
> > proposed
> > work. This plan will include the identification of software components
> > developed as part
> > of the proposed work, and designate a permissive, widely accepted OSS
> > license and a
> > public repository hosting service for these components.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From kevin at phunc.com  Fri Jul 17 22:48:59 2020
From: kevin at phunc.com (Kevin Elliott)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 15:48:59 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Disregard - Apparently Working Now : Typo Correction
	- Websites Down ? amsat.org and perens.com
In-Reply-To: <609628130.3408217.1595021903147@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <609628130.3408217.1595021903147@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C6119F14-4D3C-4B2A-9BF1-437447537062@phunc.com>

It was a Cloudflare outage. Backbone route caused a full DNS outage. Most major sites on internet were hit. Wasn?t an attack.

Kevin KK6NHN

> On Jul 17, 2020, at 3:33 PM, Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?
> 
> Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License. http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> . http://www.spaceCommunicator.club 
> . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
> 
> Silly Joke: What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff! 
> 
>   ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Robert MacHale <robert.machale at yahoo.com>To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020, 02:34:06 PM PDTSubject: Typo Correction - Websites Down ? amsat.org and perens.com
> perens.comamsat.org
> Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License. http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> . http://www.spaceCommunicator.club 
> . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
> 
> Silly Joke: What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff! 
> 
>   ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Robert MacHale <robert.machale at yahoo.com>To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020, 02:30:13 PM PDTSubject: Websites Down ? amsat.org and parens.com
> Am I the only one having trouble accessing these websites?
> If this is an attack against either group - I strongly disapprove of this type of hacking.
> Bruce - is everything okay?
> Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License. http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> . http://www.spaceCommunicator.club 
> . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From w2ev at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 17 23:05:11 2020
From: w2ev at yahoo.com (Ev Tupis)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 23:05:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Moderation and personal attacks
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOthsExTBr98q5GGq54Oro7OTYBnHaYiUGX1Wia347kiZg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e9b7518d-f7b1-a939-5877-ea83c5975ed2@charter.net>
	<CAGHXx8jDxe7=N7gCjQwB-KumH3htTAgB1w=g3JE5kuYPOyNoWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1851110279.2345379.1595010398091@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAGHXx8h0_dXagUbVkiEOXC0pWE_CwvSwHq7GRE6OZHhBcOBnKw@mail.gmail.com>
	<2080945367.2348619.1595012631429@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAK2MWOthsExTBr98q5GGq54Oro7OTYBnHaYiUGX1Wia347kiZg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1509414967.2426285.1595027111858@mail.yahoo.com>

>??There is nothing wrong with being polite.? There is much wrong with not being polite.

Yes. But that's not the argument. You rendered it as if the moderators would step in and act somewhat opaquely - the members need not agree. The reality is that they should, and probably will, act according to published rules which we are all aware of. Like a government, and as imperfectly.?
-------------------------------------------------------------------

There is no argument unless you are trying to pick one.? I render nothing on behalf of the moderators.? I speak only to the issue of civility as guests in their "house".


In your house, others are expected to be polite and abide by the "rules of your house".? Suppose you don't utter curses in your home.? Then, a guest did.? You may ignore it at first thinking it was a 'slip', but after a while curses started flowing.? When you call them out, they reply with "Show me where cursing is forbidden in your acceptable guest policy". Absurd, right?


We are all guests here.? The moderators will (and should) step in and moderate anyone they feel (yes, as imperfect humans) is endangering the health of the list.? The moderators are under no obligation to explain themselves to others.? It is their house.


From w2ev at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 17 23:10:58 2020
From: w2ev at yahoo.com (Ev Tupis)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 23:10:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] request detailed system diagram for remoting a
 satellite station
In-Reply-To: <CAD7_4hw+uyUqkyeHRQ8OJjAKCoT6d61MhL24gJmgEkR0uufUoQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56d8bc10-2c78-abe5-a15a-de2b6c22d143@charter.net>
	<CAD7_4hw+uyUqkyeHRQ8OJjAKCoT6d61MhL24gJmgEkR0uufUoQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <358862868.2420063.1595027458755@mail.yahoo.com>

I echo your approach, Curt.

I'm primarily a terrestrial narrowband operator.? No beams.? 8x halos on 2 meters.? 4x halos on 6 meters.? No rotators, no complexity.? However...I live in a rural area with very little band noise.

My suburban brothers need beams to null out broadband noise sources, birdies, etc.

Ev, W2EV

On Friday, July 17, 2020, 6:57:58 PM EDT, Curt Laumann via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 

Hi Dave,

We have a similar situation at the University of Arizona: we are also
moving towards remote control.? Even before the campus virus shutdown
elevated the priority of? remote operation, I concluded that a directional
satellite system is not optimal for K7UAZ -- given the consistent scarcity
of volunteer labor available to maintain a directional antenna system.
This fall K7UAZ will be migrating to a set of omni, circularly polarized
antennas with preamplifiers.? Not that controlling az/el rotors is overly
complicated, but this change does help make remote operation even easier.

Regards,

Curt / K7ZOO
K7UAZ Station Manager

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 12:09 PM David J. Schmocker via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Does anyone have a detailed system diagram (or interconnect drawing)
> showing how they have remoted a satellite station please?? Specifically
> which parts of the system require IP-addressable power on/off, etc.
>
>
> I am in the process of constructing a new satellite station for U/V
> linear use at Milwaukee Area Technical College (where I teach).? Our
> Data Communication and Networking class introduces satellite technology
> which I plan to demonstrate live.
>
> Because the hours of access to the building are limited, and because we
> teach Data Communication and Networking from two campuses (but have
> Satellite station at only one), remoting this station would be desirable.
>
> I have an APC IP-addressable power strip (117vac) and some power relays
> if we need 220vac switched, an IC-9700, two high-power switchable LNAs
> (2m and 70cm), antennas (20 element RHCP for 2m and 16 Turn G3RUH Helix
> for 70cm), and a Yaesu 5500 rotor with Green Heron Az/El controller
> (I'll bring Heliax from home to get to the rooftop).? Hopefully our
> city campus location is not overly noisy.? ? ? I plan to construct the
> HEO-ready station as soon as I can be back on campus to do this.
>
> One specific area of concern: how to pass audio over internet. I've
> heard Skype and some other vehicles have problematic latency but I have
> yet to remote any station to use 'near real-time audio' for CW or SSB
> QSOs so I lack experience with this.? The satellite computer
> (controlling antennas and managing Doppler) is a Mac mini running
> MacLoggerDX and MacDoppler software.
>
> If helpful, I have two surplus new Raspberry Pi 3s (new and unused) that
> could be repurposed for part of this if helpful.
>
> You'll be happy to know I've been reading the mail and I know to first
> listen and test so we Tx with minimum power.? But as a satellite newby,
> I'm sure I'll need abundant guidance when we get QRV.
>
> Any detailed system diagrams (could be off-list directly to me) showing
> how you built and configured such a remote station satellite system
> would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you
>
> very 73,
>
> Dave KJ9I
> KD9BOG (at work)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From bruce at perens.com  Fri Jul 17 23:18:15 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 16:18:15 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <CAGHXx8g4HftXoXuXhfs6h-QGbeYThHa-p0hYcv5nMXKungjGXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.7403.1595015190.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<9BED4E43-B35F-474B-A3AC-D7667D48E3F6@mac.com>
	<CH2PR12MB389370B9BCEB7AB01A303E48A97C0@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAGHXx8g4HftXoXuXhfs6h-QGbeYThHa-p0hYcv5nMXKungjGXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOu28uGPjf9=0CME6i=dxmQevXKSsmRHnKJtiyZGmhZSug@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 4:13 PM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> So, there's a separate funding source for legal services?


I'd be astonished.

No, this came out of one bank account where your membership dues and
donations went, along with any other money the organization happened to
make.

From n8hm at arrl.net  Fri Jul 17 23:21:47 2020
From: n8hm at arrl.net (Paul Stoetzer)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 19:21:47 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] FW: Oscar Sub Band Freq Infio
In-Reply-To: <00fd01d65c87$ffa28670$fee79350$@COMCAST.NET>
References: <00fd01d65c87$ffa28670$fee79350$@COMCAST.NET>
Message-ID: <CABzOSOqSt3DDrE0nkS1f4zy5b2o2PCFfc+GqOQ2xGgkgvQv5mg@mail.gmail.com>

I believe this was proposed as a new subband for satellites 30 or more
years ago, but it was never adopted by the IARU.

The amateur satellite service is legally authorized from 144 MHz - 146
MHz and there are a few below 145.8 MHz (XW-2A, 2B, 2C, and
LilacSat-2), but 144.000 MHz - 144.025 MHz  and 145.800 MHz - 146.000
MHz are the only portions of 2m that are allocated in the IARU
bandplans to amateur satellites.

73,

Paul Stoetzer, N8HM
Executive Vice President
AMSAT


On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 7:16 PM KA9QJG via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Not Sure  this Went  out
>
> 73 Don KA9QJG
>
>
>
> From: KA9QJG [mailto:KA9QJG at COMCAST.NET]
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 4:30 PM
> To: 'AMSAT-BB at amsat.org'
> Subject: Oscar Sub Band Freq Infio
>
>
>
> Hello from Don KA9QJG   Ham for over 40 yrs.  Hope Everyone is staying Safe
> and Healthy..  I hope its ok to change the ongoing thread.. I have heard
> some New Hams using the Oscar sub bands for FM Simplex.  Below Is the ARRL
> Band Chart Now   Reads  New
>
>
>
>
> 144.30-144.50
>
> New OSCAR subband
>
>
>
>
> 145.80-146.00
>
> OSCAR subband
>
>
>
> They are using Freq 144.315 FM Simplex. One was telling a story over 25 yrs
> ago they were using this Freq and a complaint was made to the FCC He got a
> Letter from the FCC  . And He called respond the complaint and told the FCC
> that this was the Old Oscar Sub band that had not been used since the
> sixties Sats were Not up and working anymore.   And the FCC Said do not
> worry about the complaint.   So after listening to all this on 144.315 over
> a long time I thought the best place to get a real answer would be here.
>
>
>
> Thanks everyone Please Stay Safe and Healthy
>
> 73 At 73     Be careful Old Age is catching LOL
>
>
>
> Don KA9QJG
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2 Meters (144-148 MHz)
>
>
> 144.00-144.05
>
> EME (CW)
>
>
> 144.05-144.10
>
> General CW and weak signals
>
>
> 144.10-144.20
>
> EME and weak-signal SSB
>
>
> 144.200
>
> National calling frequency
>
>
> 144.200-144.275
>
> General SSB operation
>
>
> 144.275-144.300
>
> Propagation beacons
>
>
> 144.30-144.50
>
> New OSCAR subband
>
>
> 144.50-144.60
>
> Linear translator inputs
>
>
> 144.60-144.90
>
> FM repeater inputs
>
>
> 144.90-145.10
>
> Weak signal and FM simplex (145.01,03,05,07,09 are widely used for packet)
>
>
> 145.10-145.20
>
> Linear translator outputs
>
>
> 145.20-145.50
>
> FM repeater outputs
>
>
> 145.50-145.80
>
> Miscellaneous and experimental modes
>
>
> 145.80-146.00
>
> OSCAR subband
>
>
> 146.01-146.37
>
> Repeater inputs
>
>
> 146.40-146.58
>
> Simplex
>
>
> 146.52
>
> National Simplex Calling Frequency
>
>
> 146.61-146.97
>
> Repeater outputs
>
>
> 147.00-147.39
>
> Repeater outputs
>
>
> 147.42-147.57
>
> Simplex
>
>
> 147.60-147.99
>
> Repeater inputs
>
> Notes: The frequency 146.40 MHz is used in some areas as a repeater input.
> This band plan has been proposed by the ARRL VHF-UHF Advisory Committee.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 17 23:28:35 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (GEO Badger)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 23:28:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <CAGHXx8g4HftXoXuXhfs6h-QGbeYThHa-p0hYcv5nMXKungjGXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.7403.1595015190.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<9BED4E43-B35F-474B-A3AC-D7667D48E3F6@mac.com>
	<CH2PR12MB389370B9BCEB7AB01A303E48A97C0@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAGHXx8g4HftXoXuXhfs6h-QGbeYThHa-p0hYcv5nMXKungjGXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <348169440.3450098.1595028515858@mail.yahoo.com>

You know, maybe the treasurer will come up on the air and put an end to all this conjecture.

This is getting tiring.

---? 
 Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side??
73 de W3AB/GEO ??? 

 http://www.w3ab.org

You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out". 

    On Friday, July 17, 2020, 04:13:55 PM PDT, Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 So, there's a separate funding source for legal services? The point is that
regardless of where it came from, AMSAT paid for it. And it was a wasteful
use of the organization's resources.

KF7R


On Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 3:06 PM Chad KG0MW via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> I like watermelons. The board even has stated that the legal funds DID NOT
> come from memberships dues.
>
>
>
> ?On 7/17/20, 3:52 PM, "AMSAT-BB on behalf of Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB" <
> amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org on behalf of AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>? ? Why are you comparing the legal expenditures with membership fees?
>
>? ? Di you discover that membership fees were used in any manner for those
> expenses?
>
>? ? If not, then why don?t we compare that amount with, say, Apples or
> Watermelons?
>
>
>
>
>
>? ? > On Jul 17, 2020, at 12:46 PM, amsat-bb-request at amsat.org wrote:
>? ? >
>? ? >>? Now we learn that the expenditure is over 16k. That is 363
> memberships, if this retired engineer's math is correct.
>
>? ? _______________________________________________
>? ? Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>? ? to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
>? ? are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of AMSAT-NA.
>? ? Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
>? ? Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From saguaroastro at cox.net  Fri Jul 17 23:52:24 2020
From: saguaroastro at cox.net (saguaroastro)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 16:52:24 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Websites Down ? amsat.org and parens.com
In-Reply-To: <1211673969.3408811.1595021413946@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20200718000748.22F7C877E@lansing182.amsat.org>


I had trouble getting in on my work computer around 2100ut. I could get in on my phone & laptop, though.73Rick Tejera (K7TEJ)Saguaro Astronomy ClubWww.saguaroastro.orgThunderbird Astronomy ClubWww.w7tbc.org
-------- Original message --------From: Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> Date: 7/17/20  15:16  (GMT-07:00) To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> Subject: [amsat-bb] Websites Down ? amsat.org and parens.com Am I the only one having trouble accessing these websites?If this is an attack against either group - I strongly disapprove of this type of hacking.Bruce - is everything okay?Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration_______________________________________________Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum availableto all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressedare solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From ke4al at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 18 00:06:00 2020
From: ke4al at yahoo.com (Robert Bankston)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 00:06:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <CAGHXx8g4HftXoXuXhfs6h-QGbeYThHa-p0hYcv5nMXKungjGXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.7403.1595015190.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<9BED4E43-B35F-474B-A3AC-D7667D48E3F6@mac.com>
	<CH2PR12MB389370B9BCEB7AB01A303E48A97C0@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAGHXx8g4HftXoXuXhfs6h-QGbeYThHa-p0hYcv5nMXKungjGXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <36669289.3470373.1595030760700@mail.yahoo.com>

In response to the OP <Why are you comparing the legal expenditures with membership fees?>


The simple answer is THEY are trying to evoke anger in the electorate, so THEY can take control of AMSAT.


Go back and read the intitial allegations in Michelle's and Patrick's "election edition" director reports.? See how their lines of attack change each time the true facts are revealed.? Their storyline has transformed from illegal expenditures to unwise expenditures.


Now go back and read AMSAT's explanation of legal expenses.? You will see that there were legitimate legal questions before the Board - question that were not sought by the AMSAT, but, either a necessary part of their mission or forced upon them by their accusers.? Having to expend scarce recources on legal counsel is unfortunate, but a necessary part of entering into contractual obligations and providing a safe workplace for your volunteers.


Robert, KE4AL

From chad.kg0mw at gmail.com  Sat Jul 18 00:14:43 2020
From: chad.kg0mw at gmail.com (Chad KG0MW)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 00:14:43 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOt1vURvBbBDK4WnA-QQMzK9AXkJ2RhNNZJEH5YqhTHUSg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.7403.1595015190.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<9BED4E43-B35F-474B-A3AC-D7667D48E3F6@mac.com>,
	<CAK2MWOt1vURvBbBDK4WnA-QQMzK9AXkJ2RhNNZJEH5YqhTHUSg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CH2PR12MB3893D1FF0AD33F3AAC37D242A97D0@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

What is concerning is funds had to be used to potentially protect the organization. Attacks against AMSAT? Really?  Come on. Let?s get back to business.

Chad Phillips
Chad Phillips Photography
& School Photography by Mark
605.336.0777

________________________________
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> on behalf of Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 4:52:41 PM
To: Clint Bradford <clintbradford at mac.com>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 1:46 PM Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Why are you comparing the legal expenditures with membership fees?


It all goes in the same bank account. It might be that Yasme Foundation,
the ARRL Foundation, or ARDC inadvertently gave the money for this. They
would be upset if they did. In which case that might provide one reason
that their latest grants are to ORI.

So, we might say it's some hundreds of memberships, or 1/2 Yasme grant or 8
ARRL Foundation grants, or 150 President's Circle Basic contributions or  a
piece of our US Government forgivable loan.

But it's all the same money, in the same bank account. We can't really wave
hands about whether it is memberships, donations, or grants, or the
loan to *paper
over the impact of this money being spent unwisely.*
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From dquagliana at gmail.com  Sat Jul 18 00:18:57 2020
From: dquagliana at gmail.com (Douglas Quagliana)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 19:18:57 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Leveraging Satnogs recordings ( was: request detailed
 system diagram for remoting a satellite station)
In-Reply-To: <CAFvUaiog+bhwTMV+2YEK3iboRyxqqECFCymtsshZCVTSPC4pMQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56d8bc10-2c78-abe5-a15a-de2b6c22d143@charter.net>
	<CAK2MWOuJsbTNmdjbi4SoUr9zTVFnmkn91tfdC6wLWweeefNfhQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFvUaiog+bhwTMV+2YEK3iboRyxqqECFCymtsshZCVTSPC4pMQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALaYSmkSc6YKtfndnA8mdX1_kDfBhBu7hwQ1mMAqwqTSiehhsg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 4:49 PM Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Sadly Satnogs isn't suitable for the job being it's for telemetry only,
> also I don't believe it forwards telemetry to AMSAT-NA or AMSAT-UK so radio
> amateurs would be better off with a different solution.
>

Friends,

Satnogs is an incredible and incredibly underutilized resource for AMSAT.
It doesn't automatically forward telemetry, but you can go to the
appropriate Satnogs site, filter on the satellite you want and download the
audio recording of the pass (or passes) that you want. Then
lather-rinse-repeat for as many passes as you want. I would never have been
able to create as many recordings myself at my home QTH as I can get by
downloading them from Satnogs.  You can get recordings from anywhere on the
planet where there was a ground station that made a recording. (If you're
fully onboard you could even schedule somebody else to make a recording for
you on a particular date/time in the future. Think about that.)

A while back I downloaded several months worth of old Falconsat-3 audio
recordings so that I could run the recordings through my own 9600 DSP
demodulator and see if I could recover any data from the recordings, and
improve the demodulator as much as possible. I wrote some scripts to
convert and filter each ogg recording and then run them all through my
demodulator.  This whole scheme actually worked too well, as I now have
more than enough recordings to keep me busy for a long long time because it
takes my old computer DAYS to process through ALL of those recordings
[footnote 1] and to decide if the latest tweak was an improvement or not.
(Think about your last visit to the eye doctor where you watch the eye
chart through the phoropter [footnote 2] while the eye doctor makes
adjustments to the lenses and asks you if this one is now "Better? Or
worse?" -- well, this is almost the same thing but it takes three days to
find out the answer for each change. But, I digress...)

So far, of the recordings that I downloaded, the most extreme pass is

https://network.satnogs.org/observations/180707/

the audio recording is eighteen megabytes and is online at

https://ia902808.us.archive.org/7/items/satnogs-observation-180707/satnogs_180707_2018-07-12T00-08-11.ogg

The satnogs webpage for this pass shows 644 valid 9600 baud AX.25 packets
this recording so you know it is a good pass with plenty of frames in it.
By throwing everything I can think of at this recording, I can now get over
1000 good frames out of it. Oh, and, hey, if anybody else tries this
recording against their own demodulator, then whatever results you get
please send them to me so I can look for any valid frames I am missing.
And the advantage of the satnogs recordings is that you can keep tweaking
your software iteratively by running the recordings against the "new"
demodulator again, and again, and again, and compare the results.  You
could never achieve this or iterate this many times with live satellite
passes.

73,
Douglas KA2UPW/5
[1] If the whole process doesn't get interrupted... Actually, this says
more about my old slow computer than it says about the speed of the
demodulator.
[2] If you get your eyes checked then you know this device. You just might
not know the name for it.  Consider "phoropter" to be today's new
word-of-the-day.  See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoropter

From rich at ourowndomain.com  Sat Jul 18 00:23:15 2020
From: rich at ourowndomain.com (Rich Gopstein)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 20:23:15 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <348169440.3450098.1595028515858@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.7403.1595015190.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<9BED4E43-B35F-474B-A3AC-D7667D48E3F6@mac.com>
	<CH2PR12MB389370B9BCEB7AB01A303E48A97C0@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAGHXx8g4HftXoXuXhfs6h-QGbeYThHa-p0hYcv5nMXKungjGXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<348169440.3450098.1595028515858@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CANsNeaqoDw7C4LF=SX51px_QmFp_ZZqjs1XABiZegzJ6Hy0-9A@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not sure what the issue is.  If the organization was concerned about a
legal issue, they should reach out to their lawyers - it's their
responsibility to protect AMSAT.  Lawyers cost money.  Trying to track
which individual dollars were used doesn't sound like a productive effort.

Rich, KD2CQ


On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 8:15 PM GEO Badger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> You know, maybe the treasurer will come up on the air and put an end to
> all this conjecture.
>
> This is getting tiring.
>
> ---
>  Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side
> 73 de W3AB/GEO
>
>  http://www.w3ab.org
>
> You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out".
>
>     On Friday, July 17, 2020, 04:13:55 PM PDT, Fernando Ramirez via
> AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>  So, there's a separate funding source for legal services? The point is
> that
> regardless of where it came from, AMSAT paid for it. And it was a wasteful
> use of the organization's resources.
>
> KF7R
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 3:06 PM Chad KG0MW via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
> > I like watermelons. The board even has stated that the legal funds DID
> NOT
> > come from memberships dues.
> >
> >
> >
> > ?On 7/17/20, 3:52 PM, "AMSAT-BB on behalf of Clint Bradford via
> AMSAT-BB" <
> > amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org on behalf of AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> >    Why are you comparing the legal expenditures with membership fees?
> >
> >    Di you discover that membership fees were used in any manner for those
> > expenses?
> >
> >    If not, then why don?t we compare that amount with, say, Apples or
> > Watermelons?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >    > On Jul 17, 2020, at 12:46 PM, amsat-bb-request at amsat.org wrote:
> >    >
> >    >>  Now we learn that the expenditure is over 16k. That is 363
> > memberships, if this retired engineer's math is correct.
> >
> >    _______________________________________________
> >    Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >    to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions expressed
> >    are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> > of AMSAT-NA.
> >    Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> >    Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From bruce at perens.com  Sat Jul 18 00:26:55 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 17:26:55 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <CH2PR12MB3893D1FF0AD33F3AAC37D242A97D0@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <mailman.7403.1595015190.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<9BED4E43-B35F-474B-A3AC-D7667D48E3F6@mac.com>
	<CAK2MWOt1vURvBbBDK4WnA-QQMzK9AXkJ2RhNNZJEH5YqhTHUSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CH2PR12MB3893D1FF0AD33F3AAC37D242A97D0@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOuq2yZYybuycV1TOY8uwp41be_FdQPya4O3n3vUVcTLXQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 5:14 PM Chad KG0MW <chad.kg0mw at gmail.com> wrote:

> Attacks against AMSAT? Really?
>

This is exactly the kind of thinking that got AMSAT in trouble.

There were never any "attacks" against AMSAT. There was never an enemy.
There was never a good side and a bad side.

There was opposition. And there still is today. The opposition are members,
and they believe that the current board members are doing a bad job of
running AMSAT.

Democracy always includes opposition, and it isn't democracy without it.
Treating them as the enemy is the problem.

    Thanks

    Bruce

From bruce at perens.com  Sat Jul 18 00:32:25 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 17:32:25 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <36669289.3470373.1595030760700@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.7403.1595015190.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<9BED4E43-B35F-474B-A3AC-D7667D48E3F6@mac.com>
	<CH2PR12MB389370B9BCEB7AB01A303E48A97C0@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAGHXx8g4HftXoXuXhfs6h-QGbeYThHa-p0hYcv5nMXKungjGXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<36669289.3470373.1595030760700@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOs3hKvysQatriUN5KvC+AFVLkX--PsSMYxYhrcMQL-D1g@mail.gmail.com>

Robert, speaking of trying to evoke anger, you seemed to be out to do that
without answering the question.

Where did the money come from? If I understand correctly, it would have
been AMSAT's General Fund. Right?

    Thanks

    Bruce

From bruce at perens.com  Sat Jul 18 00:51:21 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 17:51:21 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <CANsNeaqoDw7C4LF=SX51px_QmFp_ZZqjs1XABiZegzJ6Hy0-9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.7403.1595015190.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<9BED4E43-B35F-474B-A3AC-D7667D48E3F6@mac.com>
	<CH2PR12MB389370B9BCEB7AB01A303E48A97C0@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAGHXx8g4HftXoXuXhfs6h-QGbeYThHa-p0hYcv5nMXKungjGXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<348169440.3450098.1595028515858@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CANsNeaqoDw7C4LF=SX51px_QmFp_ZZqjs1XABiZegzJ6Hy0-9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOv++TFo=15nu2=sLxVKtt-gN1VZN7nfF=AzAAPPW=awoQ@mail.gmail.com>

Rich,

I think the problem was that they weren't really protecting AMSAT. They
were protecting the incumbent AMSAT leadership team. They were able to deal
with the issue of discrimination without counsel. You don't need to call
your lawyer to understand how to deal with the only woman engineer in a
leadership role in the whole organization. You need to recognize the
realities of the present, that we are not all white Christian men and that
you need to have some more consideration for people who aren't like you.

If they had devoted as much time to hearing and attempting to understand
the complaints of the opposition as they did to contracting lawyers, this
would not have happened. No lawyers. No big argument now.

    Thanks

    Bruce

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 5:37 PM Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I'm not sure what the issue is.  If the organization was concerned about a
> legal issue, they should reach out to their lawyers - it's their
> responsibility to protect AMSAT.  Lawyers cost money.  Trying to track
> which individual dollars were used doesn't sound like a productive effort.
>
> Rich, KD2CQ
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 8:15 PM GEO Badger via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
> > You know, maybe the treasurer will come up on the air and put an end to
> > all this conjecture.
> >
> > This is getting tiring.
> >
> > ---
> >  Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side
> > 73 de W3AB/GEO
> >
> >  http://www.w3ab.org
> >
> > You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out".
> >
> >     On Friday, July 17, 2020, 04:13:55 PM PDT, Fernando Ramirez via
> > AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> >  So, there's a separate funding source for legal services? The point is
> > that
> > regardless of where it came from, AMSAT paid for it. And it was a
> wasteful
> > use of the organization's resources.
> >
> > KF7R
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 3:06 PM Chad KG0MW via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I like watermelons. The board even has stated that the legal funds DID
> > NOT
> > > come from memberships dues.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ?On 7/17/20, 3:52 PM, "AMSAT-BB on behalf of Clint Bradford via
> > AMSAT-BB" <
> > > amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org on behalf of AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >    Why are you comparing the legal expenditures with membership fees?
> > >
> > >    Di you discover that membership fees were used in any manner for
> those
> > > expenses?
> > >
> > >    If not, then why don?t we compare that amount with, say, Apples or
> > > Watermelons?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >    > On Jul 17, 2020, at 12:46 PM, amsat-bb-request at amsat.org wrote:
> > >    >
> > >    >>  Now we learn that the expenditure is over 16k. That is 363
> > > memberships, if this retired engineer's math is correct.
> > >
> > >    _______________________________________________
> > >    Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> > >    to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > > Opinions expressed
> > >    are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views
> > > of AMSAT-NA.
> > >    Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > > program!
> > >    Subscription settings:
> > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions
> > > expressed
> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)

From robert.machale at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 18 01:15:31 2020
From: robert.machale at yahoo.com (Robert MacHale)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 01:15:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Wise Legal Expenses
References: <594720251.3486452.1595034931934.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <594720251.3486452.1595034931934@mail.yahoo.com>

To all who claim the legal expenses were a waste of money, consider this:


>>>In January 2020, a demand letter arrived at AMSAT from an attorney representing Directors Thompson and Stoddard. 


Submitting a demand letter from an attorney is a really big deal. That legal line was first crossed by the new board members. Apparently, Joe Spier resigned at this point in order to avoid unfair legal entanglements - and, as far as I can tell from the few interactions I have had with Joe - he is a kind person.

Plenty of evidence, plenty of facts - obviously point to AmSat not keeping up with the times. But that does not justify legal betrayal of existing board members by new members in an effort to usurp full control of the board. A more perfect response would have been to do nothing until the election cycle and hope to replace the board members who may have been dragging their feet.

My point is this - nobody should be making the argument the legal expenses were not required. Hearing this from the members who delivered the demand letter feels insulting on many levels and should stop. Own it - the members who brought the demand, and their Backer(s), are ultimately responsible for the costs incurred. Actions have consequences - and side-effects.

Ends do not justify means. There is a right way and a wrong way to move forward. Trust is more valuable than performance.

The legal expenditures were both Wise and Required. The demand letter sent by the new board members was neither. Shifting blame and not owning the side-effects of our actions is less than optimal.

This observation is not a vote in favor or against any member or candidate.

For reference: https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2020-July/078239.html

Robert MacHale
. KE6BLR Ham Radio License
.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration

Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!

From rhyolite at leikhim.com  Fri Jul 17 21:49:26 2020
From: rhyolite at leikhim.com (Joe Leikhim)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 17:49:26 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb]  GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no,
 whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Message-ID: <681b3d78-f77a-754b-5276-f88166b6df73@leikhim.com>

Blast from past 12 years ago....the entire thread of course is nearly a 
rehash of today's. So just the POSITIVE Bits. What happened?


  [eagle] Re: what is going on?, some technical content at last.

*Bill Tynan*  
     btynan at beecreek.net 
<mailto:eagle%40amsat.org?Subject=%5Beagle%5D%20Re%3A%20what%20is%20going%20on%3F%2C%20some%20technical%20content%20at%20last.&In-Reply-To=>

     /Fri Jul 11 07:52:51 PDT 2008/

"Drew, Bob and All:

I have been thinking along the same lines for some time, but being no more
than a "Senior Advisor" (geezer) I have not chosen to voice my views widely.

Most hams want linear transponder, high altitude satellites. Very few are
yet into digital anything.

Yes, AMSAT should be in the forefront of technology, but to do so, it must
be here. To be here, it must have the support (money) of the ham community.

We can still make a very good case for emergency commutations with a
spacecraft which is in there 24/7 (Rideshare) even if it is only an analog
transponder. With moderate bandwidth, that analog transponder can be used
for at least low rate digital communication by ground stations. So, still
pictures and medical data can be exchanged through it.

So, let's get to it.

That means fundraising. I have seen very little effort in that direction.
Have fat cats been solicited? What about the guy (can't remember his name)
who spent $20,000,000 to visit the ISS for a week. It would seem that he is
a prime candidate. Has he been contacted?

Has FEMA been solicited re the potential Rideshare offers?

It's up to the AMSAT leadership to make such solicitations.

We raised $2,000,000 here in North America for P3D. We should be able to do
it again, despite the AO-40 disaster.

These are my thoughts.

73,

Bill Tynan, W3XO, LM-10
AMSAT President 1991 - 1998"

https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/eagle/2008/001235.html

-- 
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

JLeikhim at Leikhim.com

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM


From chad.kg0mw at gmail.com  Sat Jul 18 01:39:28 2020
From: chad.kg0mw at gmail.com (Chad KG0MW)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 01:39:28 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no,
 whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
In-Reply-To: <681b3d78-f77a-754b-5276-f88166b6df73@leikhim.com>
References: <681b3d78-f77a-754b-5276-f88166b6df73@leikhim.com>
Message-ID: <CH2PR12MB3893F03DBBD5A254C7810C54A97D0@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

Actually tantrums have popped up ever since the start of the AMSAT-BB.

Chad Phillips
Chad Phillips Photography
& School Photography by Mark
605.336.0777

________________________________
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> on behalf of Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 4:49:26 PM
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was need HEO..please..)

Blast from past 12 years ago....the entire thread of course is nearly a
rehash of today's. So just the POSITIVE Bits. What happened?


  [eagle] Re: what is going on?, some technical content at last.

*Bill Tynan*
     btynan at beecreek.net
<mailto:eagle%40amsat.org?Subject=%5Beagle%5D%20Re%3A%20what%20is%20going%20on%3F%2C%20some%20technical%20content%20at%20last.&In-Reply-To=>

     /Fri Jul 11 07:52:51 PDT 2008/

"Drew, Bob and All:

I have been thinking along the same lines for some time, but being no more
than a "Senior Advisor" (geezer) I have not chosen to voice my views widely.

Most hams want linear transponder, high altitude satellites. Very few are
yet into digital anything.

Yes, AMSAT should be in the forefront of technology, but to do so, it must
be here. To be here, it must have the support (money) of the ham community.

We can still make a very good case for emergency commutations with a
spacecraft which is in there 24/7 (Rideshare) even if it is only an analog
transponder. With moderate bandwidth, that analog transponder can be used
for at least low rate digital communication by ground stations. So, still
pictures and medical data can be exchanged through it.

So, let's get to it.

That means fundraising. I have seen very little effort in that direction.
Have fat cats been solicited? What about the guy (can't remember his name)
who spent $20,000,000 to visit the ISS for a week. It would seem that he is
a prime candidate. Has he been contacted?

Has FEMA been solicited re the potential Rideshare offers?

It's up to the AMSAT leadership to make such solicitations.

We raised $2,000,000 here in North America for P3D. We should be able to do
it again, despite the AO-40 disaster.

These are my thoughts.

73,

Bill Tynan, W3XO, LM-10
AMSAT President 1991 - 1998"

https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/eagle/2008/001235.html

--
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

JLeikhim at Leikhim.com

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From wa4sca at gmail.com  Sat Jul 18 01:42:10 2020
From: wa4sca at gmail.com (Alan)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 20:42:10 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] HO-107 is back!
Message-ID: <000001d65ca4$a7f08cc0$f7d1a640$@gmail.com>

HO-107 is back sending telemetry.  The transponder is off, but if you have been copying telemetry and removed it from your schedule, it would be helpful if you put it back.

73,

Alan
WA4SCA



From g0kla at arrl.net  Sat Jul 18 01:51:37 2020
From: g0kla at arrl.net (Chris Thompson)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 21:51:37 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] HO-107 is back!
In-Reply-To: <000001d65ca4$a7f08cc0$f7d1a640$@gmail.com>
References: <000001d65ca4$a7f08cc0$f7d1a640$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJOf0+v5n1HJUhxPuED-F090dD0EnOrcabqMbbhQGSfWKLUJdw@mail.gmail.com>

Many thanks to Vlad EU1SAT / EU1XX for reporting this via Twitter.  If you
want to judge the health of the spacecraft yourself then you can pull the
telemetry down from the server using FoxTelem.  File > Fetch Server Data
will do it.  Just make sure you are not writing the data into the same
folder as data you are capturing live.  Or it will delete it (with a
warning first).  There are instructions in the manual but feel free to
email me if you want help.

73
Chris
g0kla / ac2cz

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 9:45 PM Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> HO-107 is back sending telemetry.  The transponder is off, but if you have
> been copying telemetry and removed it from your schedule, it would be
> helpful if you put it back.
>
> 73,
>
> Alan
> WA4SCA
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
Chris E. Thompson
chrisethompson at gmail.com
g0kla at arrl.net

From framirezferrer at gmail.com  Sat Jul 18 01:54:28 2020
From: framirezferrer at gmail.com (Fernando Ramirez)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 18:54:28 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <36669289.3470373.1595030760700@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.7403.1595015190.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<9BED4E43-B35F-474B-A3AC-D7667D48E3F6@mac.com>
	<CH2PR12MB389370B9BCEB7AB01A303E48A97C0@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAGHXx8g4HftXoXuXhfs6h-QGbeYThHa-p0hYcv5nMXKungjGXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<36669289.3470373.1595030760700@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAGHXx8i-b0whN615Ah_8kDX5wn9v7b7EjncNwg1P6B2uL32AQw@mail.gmail.com>

Robert, who are "THEY"?

As far as I know, people in favor of the current leadership and those
wanting to change it are AMSAT members. You're making it sound like the
opposition is storming the AMSAT office and illegally ousting the current
team. The GM is comprised of very smart people with good cognitive skills.
I don't think there's a need to evoke anything.

As for the "legitimate" expenses, in what world is legitimate to procure
legal services in order to punish a member for criticizing an officer? Or
using lawyers to prevent duly elected directors from accessing information
to which they have a legal right to access?

Like I expressed to you last year, I was upset that a member was penalized
for voicing his criticism. Now I'm livid for the use of legal counsel to
advise on proposed sanctions against that same member.

73
Fernando, KF7R


On Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 5:06 PM Robert Bankston <ke4al at yahoo.com> wrote:

> In response to the OP <Why are you comparing the legal expenditures with
> membership fees?>
>
>
> The simple answer is THEY are trying to evoke anger in the electorate, so
> THEY can take control of AMSAT.
>
>
> Go back and read the intitial allegations in Michelle's and Patrick's
> "election edition" director reports.  See how their lines of attack change
> each time the true facts are revealed.  Their storyline has transformed
> from illegal expenditures to unwise expenditures.
>
>
> Now go back and read AMSAT's explanation of legal expenses.  You will see
> that there were legitimate legal questions before the Board - question that
> were not sought by the AMSAT, but, either a necessary part of their mission
> or forced upon them by their accusers.  Having to expend scarce recources
> on legal counsel is unfortunate, but a necessary part of entering into
> contractual obligations and providing a safe workplace for your volunteers.
>
>
> Robert, KE4AL
>

From bruce at perens.com  Sat Jul 18 03:07:34 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 20:07:34 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Wise Legal Expenses
In-Reply-To: <594720251.3486452.1595034931934@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <594720251.3486452.1595034931934.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<594720251.3486452.1595034931934@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOueG3Yf=wWH4kr3EAn46bWSr76XvY2767x4r5ox8ogJgw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Robert,

Unfortunately, you are stating the time sequence backward.

If you read the explanation letter signed by the whole AMSAT board, the
legal expenses are in 2018-2019. The demand letter came at the *end* of the
legal process, when the majority of the funds had already been spent. When
they got the demand letter, AMSAT's attorneys relented and the board did
what was demanded in the letter, and Joe resigned (for reasons he has
chosen not to elaborate upon). Michelle and Patrick's blogs are public and
you can read it there, it is clear that there were many attempts to
communicate before the demand was made.

It also is important to note that AMSAT had lawyers directed at Michelle
and Patrick long, long before they got their own lawyer.

    Thanks

    Bruce

    Thanks

    Bruce

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 6:19 PM Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> To all who claim the legal expenses were a waste of money, consider this:
>
>
> >>>In January 2020, a demand letter arrived at AMSAT from an attorney
> representing Directors Thompson and Stoddard.
>
>
> Submitting a demand letter from an attorney is a really big deal. That
> legal line was first crossed by the new board members. Apparently, Joe
> Spier resigned at this point in order to avoid unfair legal entanglements -
> and, as far as I can tell from the few interactions I have had with Joe -
> he is a kind person.
>
> Plenty of evidence, plenty of facts - obviously point to AmSat not keeping
> up with the times. But that does not justify legal betrayal of existing
> board members by new members in an effort to usurp full control of the
> board. A more perfect response would have been to do nothing until the
> election cycle and hope to replace the board members who may have been
> dragging their feet.
>
> My point is this - nobody should be making the argument the legal expenses
> were not required. Hearing this from the members who delivered the demand
> letter feels insulting on many levels and should stop. Own it - the members
> who brought the demand, and their Backer(s), are ultimately responsible for
> the costs incurred. Actions have consequences - and side-effects.
>
> Ends do not justify means. There is a right way and a wrong way to move
> forward. Trust is more valuable than performance.
>
> The legal expenditures were both Wise and Required. The demand letter sent
> by the new board members was neither. Shifting blame and not owning the
> side-effects of our actions is less than optimal.
>
> This observation is not a vote in favor or against any member or candidate.
>
> For reference:
> https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2020-July/078239.html
>
> Robert MacHale
> . KE6BLR Ham Radio License
> . http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> . http://www.spaceCommunicator.club
> . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space
> Exploration
>
> Silly Joke: What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi
> Cliff!
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)

From bruce at perens.com  Sat Jul 18 03:22:05 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 20:22:05 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <CAGHXx8i-b0whN615Ah_8kDX5wn9v7b7EjncNwg1P6B2uL32AQw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.7403.1595015190.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<9BED4E43-B35F-474B-A3AC-D7667D48E3F6@mac.com>
	<CH2PR12MB389370B9BCEB7AB01A303E48A97C0@CH2PR12MB3893.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAGHXx8g4HftXoXuXhfs6h-QGbeYThHa-p0hYcv5nMXKungjGXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<36669289.3470373.1595030760700@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAGHXx8i-b0whN615Ah_8kDX5wn9v7b7EjncNwg1P6B2uL32AQw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOvcV6cn4gPrZQ1Cj+_1X-B8jPqGkOuDnB__RiPmH11bNw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 6:56 PM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> You're making it sound like the opposition is storming the AMSAT office
> and illegally ousting the current team.


Forgive me if I feel the temptation to pick people up and shake them and
say "IT'S     AN      ELECTION." :-)

An election is not storming the darned Bastille!

From ve3hls at gmail.com  Sat Jul 18 03:42:37 2020
From: ve3hls at gmail.com (Kenneth P Alexander)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 10:42:37 +0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Websites Down ? amsat.org and parens.com
In-Reply-To: <CAFvUaio60XQk=BfPoF911g_wGQevH7Os0oWBYq0c4e1YXkv=Zw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1211673969.3408811.1595021413946.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1211673969.3408811.1595021413946@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAFvUaio60XQk=BfPoF911g_wGQevH7Os0oWBYq0c4e1YXkv=Zw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPOM0d=5GNd9E9vY5kchGASB9dt_-rNpc5V-G8tUjxi8tfzjXA@mail.gmail.com>

I wonder if it affected Google too?  I wasn't able to connect to my
computer in VE3 via Chrome Remote Desktop for over a day.  Just returned to
normal yesterday afternoon.

Ken,
So Phisai, Thailand
Blog:  bueng-ken.com

On Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 06:27 Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Probably better to wait for facts before saying it was a attack
>
> I suspect they all used Cloudflare DNS which had an outage.
>
> Peter, 2M0SQL
>
> On Fri, 17 Jul 2020, 23:16 Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB, <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Am I the only one having trouble accessing these websites?
> > If this is an attack against either group - I strongly disapprove of this
> > type of hacking.
> > Bruce - is everything okay?
> > Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License. http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> > . http://www.spaceCommunicator.club
> > . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space
> > Exploration
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From zleffke at vt.edu  Sat Jul 18 04:15:06 2020
From: zleffke at vt.edu (Leffke, Zachary)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 04:15:06 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Leveraging Satnogs recordings ( was: request
 detailed system diagram for remoting a satellite station)
In-Reply-To: <CALaYSmkSc6YKtfndnA8mdX1_kDfBhBu7hwQ1mMAqwqTSiehhsg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56d8bc10-2c78-abe5-a15a-de2b6c22d143@charter.net>
	<CAK2MWOuJsbTNmdjbi4SoUr9zTVFnmkn91tfdC6wLWweeefNfhQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFvUaiog+bhwTMV+2YEK3iboRyxqqECFCymtsshZCVTSPC4pMQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALaYSmkSc6YKtfndnA8mdX1_kDfBhBu7hwQ1mMAqwqTSiehhsg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR05MB70375507DE29530D76981E53DF7D0@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Sorry, another TL;DR...but hey its Friday night, what else have I got to do.....The one sentence version of the below is 'it would be cool if the SatNOGS network could record raw IQ, and then that could all be brought together at a central processing location to do some really cool stuff.'.....here comes the longer version........

I'm also generally 'pro-SatNOGS' (they started right about when I published my Master's thesis about GS networks!  I wish they had been there sooner or I had known about them earlier....would have been a great addition to the work).  I was furiously writing to finish my thesis while they were out winning the Hack-a-day prize.  I'll admit I was jealous at first......but I quickly got over my "hate 'em cause I ain't 'em" problem because what they are up to is just too cool (and every time I talk with someone from their team face to face, they have all been super nice enthusiastic folks!).  I'll freely admit I haven't had time to participate in the network myself or with VTGS systems, though that is mainly due to us not being 'ready' in terms of things like system automation (just not enough hours in a given day....this whole sleep thing is a real downer).  That said, the VT Amateur Radio club, K4KDJ, a separate entity from our ground station (though with overlapping people, I used to be an officer in K4KDJ when I was a student) is considering setting a node up.

Here's one thought (laid out in a list) for the SatNOGS folks (This is a total 'feature request' of which I'm sure they get a lot......this is not a poke against them, more 'hey here's a fun idea' type thing.  If I had more time I'd actually try to get more involved on this front).  What follows is a total 'thinking out loud', not fully thought through, brain dump of some ideas I've been kicking around for a couple years now (I guess since at least 2013/2014.....but the existence of the SatNOGS network makes it seem more feasible now), so feel free to skip.  I know others have had similar thoughts, so I also no way claim this as solely my own idea.....(AMSAT in general and Douglas, KA2UPW and Joe, KM1P specifically were in the acknowledgments section of the thesis specifically because of some conversations in this arena and for their super positive encouragement to a newby, Bob McGwier, N4HY was my committee chair....).  I'm sure there are others I've talked about this with (maybe also Chris Thompson), these ideas have been 'marinating' over the last few years and I can't remember every conversation I've had........

1.  One thing I think would be REALLY fun to explore is raw IQ captures shared over their network.  The recorded audio is great, and I'm 100% behind what Douglas mentioned.  However, if the recording point could be moved 'upstream' a bit to the raw IQ samples, some really interesting applications could be explored.  Cross correlating the IQ streams to determine things like time difference of arrival and frequency difference of arrival can lead to things like orbit determination...something that might be of interest for folks burning Ion thrusters (or solar sails) and don't want to wait for TLE updates.....I'm thinking for future HEO efforts on this front, but the general theory/application could be applied across the various orbital regimes from LEO out to GEO and beyond.  The familiar 'Fox Tail' on the Fox bird might make for a good 'target' for this type of thing.

2. One requirement for this to work properly is good timing references at the ground stations though (RTL SDR and FCDPP oscillators are prob not good enough), GPSDOs and other oscillators would be desirable (and are not hard to come by these days...QEX has some great articles, ebay has surplus, etc.).  If reference signals can be sent over a transponder (PN sequences to make the correlations that much simpler to identify is what I'm thinking here) with a known group delay, with precise freq/time control, then there is potential to explore applications and resolving timing ambiguities between station pairs, even if they don't have 'great' oscillators (room to experiment!).  Even with good timing references, you then have to make sure that's properly integrated with the SDR software actually executing the recordings (see #5 below for potential solution to part of that problem).  I'm sure Tom Clark, K3IO with his long history of VLBI work might have some advice on this front (along with others).  For those involved with ADSB collection over the Flightaware network (similar to SatNOGS....but different and for collecting transmissions from general and commercial aviation aircraft), they do something similar as part of their multilateration processing (using the 'known location' message bursts to resolve timing residuals between station pairs, and then using the residuals to correct the timing offsets when geolocating the messages/emitters that don't have position info in them....they call it 'MLAT').  Big difference is they don't send IQ, just 'precise' timestamps of the received messages......but I bring it up because all their Python code is open source and on github for the multilateration process....and might be a useful starting point.

3.  Raw IQ recordings come with an obvious tough requirement....storage capacity and network bandwidth.  IQ sample captures will be MUCH larger than the audio recording of the same pass.  Perhaps some type of prototype system could be set up though to 'get started' that doesn't break the bank where certain systems (maybe volunteer stations that have the oscillator/timing features mentioned) are tasked for specific experiments on this front (not normal ops that might generate way too much data).

4.  Then there is the central storage/computing resources needed to run the correlations.  With modern compute resources (including cloud services), the cost of that effort doesn't necessarily have to break the bank (especially if a willing university....with big honkin GPUs in server stacks that are currently underutilized, with a research faculty member interested in GS networks and novel applications, who is also a ham, and a lifetime member of AMSAT......... are willing to free up some system time ;-) hi hi, at least maybe for some prototyping on this front).

5. then there is the appropriate tagging of metadata necessary to take full advantage of the timing information.  For this I would recommend the Signal Metadata Format (aka SigMF) (https://github.com/gnuradio/SigMF).  While it grew out of GNU Radio (and there are OOTMs for GNU Radio support) it is not specifically tied to the GNU Radio project and can be used for anything (literally any time series of data, even for stuff that is 'not radio' if desired).  I use it extensively for signal collection work and keeping track of the myriad bits of info that needs to be tracked along with the raw IQ (the metadata is in JSON format, super easy to use).  Their 'extensions' framework is ingenious, and allows folks to 'extend' the specification for custom metadata formats not already covered in the spec.

6. Finally, if all of the above can be accomplished, then there is another application that could be explored beyond the satellite tracking, signal combining.  Imagine if there were packets transmitted that no single ground station could decode due to lack of sufficient SNR.....but then all the IQ streams are brought together, the correlations are performed and the streams are time aligned, and summed (perhaps with weighting)........the random nature of the noise drives its average lower, while the not so random nature of the signal drives its average higher (massive oversimplification of the idea).....leading to higher SNR....leading to potentially high enough SNR to demodulate the otherwise 'lost' packets.  There are lots of techniques out there for this sort of thing in the DSP world, right now I'm thinking 'maximal ratio signal combining' that applies weights to the summing process based on the measured SNR at each station.

7. Finally, Finally.  Imagine the ground stations involved were using omni antennas.  Also imagine multiple birds were overhead and in the recording bandwidth.  Theres nothing stopping you from going back in time, doing a bit of preprocessing (maybe coarse tuning for the target bird using TLEs, filtering for the specific signal of interest, etc.) and then re-executing the above process.

All of the above is pretty complicated to do, and I didn't cover every little technical detail or 'gotcha' type problem......but I think it could be a lot of fun to explore as a team.....if there is enough interest, perhaps some collaboration on this front and ideas for proposals could be put together to explore more.....I'm also betting the 'super-Elmers' out there (like the Bobs, Toms, and Phils) could figure out the math for this sort of thing in their sleep.

If you're reading this line....then THANKS! For sticking with the thinking out loud brain dump on this topic......as always, feedback is welcome (on or off list).

-Zach, KJ4QLP

-- 
Research Associate
Aerospace & Ocean Systems Lab
Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
Work Phone: 540-231-4174
Cell Phone: 540-808-6305

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Douglas Quagliana via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 8:19 PM
To: peter at 2m0sql.com; Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) <peter at magicbug.co.uk>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Leveraging Satnogs recordings ( was: request detailed system diagram for remoting a satellite station)

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 4:49 PM Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Sadly Satnogs isn't suitable for the job being it's for telemetry only,
> also I don't believe it forwards telemetry to AMSAT-NA or AMSAT-UK so radio
> amateurs would be better off with a different solution.
>

Friends,

Satnogs is an incredible and incredibly underutilized resource for AMSAT.
It doesn't automatically forward telemetry, but you can go to the
appropriate Satnogs site, filter on the satellite you want and download the
audio recording of the pass (or passes) that you want. Then
lather-rinse-repeat for as many passes as you want. I would never have been
able to create as many recordings myself at my home QTH as I can get by
downloading them from Satnogs.  You can get recordings from anywhere on the
planet where there was a ground station that made a recording. (If you're
fully onboard you could even schedule somebody else to make a recording for
you on a particular date/time in the future. Think about that.)

A while back I downloaded several months worth of old Falconsat-3 audio
recordings so that I could run the recordings through my own 9600 DSP
demodulator and see if I could recover any data from the recordings, and
improve the demodulator as much as possible. I wrote some scripts to
convert and filter each ogg recording and then run them all through my
demodulator.  This whole scheme actually worked too well, as I now have
more than enough recordings to keep me busy for a long long time because it
takes my old computer DAYS to process through ALL of those recordings
[footnote 1] and to decide if the latest tweak was an improvement or not.
(Think about your last visit to the eye doctor where you watch the eye
chart through the phoropter [footnote 2] while the eye doctor makes
adjustments to the lenses and asks you if this one is now "Better? Or
worse?" -- well, this is almost the same thing but it takes three days to
find out the answer for each change. But, I digress...)

So far, of the recordings that I downloaded, the most extreme pass is

https://network.satnogs.org/observations/180707/

the audio recording is eighteen megabytes and is online at

https://ia902808.us.archive.org/7/items/satnogs-observation-180707/satnogs_180707_2018-07-12T00-08-11.ogg

The satnogs webpage for this pass shows 644 valid 9600 baud AX.25 packets
this recording so you know it is a good pass with plenty of frames in it.
By throwing everything I can think of at this recording, I can now get over
1000 good frames out of it. Oh, and, hey, if anybody else tries this
recording against their own demodulator, then whatever results you get
please send them to me so I can look for any valid frames I am missing.
And the advantage of the satnogs recordings is that you can keep tweaking
your software iteratively by running the recordings against the "new"
demodulator again, and again, and again, and compare the results.  You
could never achieve this or iterate this many times with live satellite
passes.

73,
Douglas KA2UPW/5
[1] If the whole process doesn't get interrupted... Actually, this says
more about my old slow computer than it says about the speed of the
demodulator.
[2] If you get your eyes checked then you know this device. You just might
not know the name for it.  Consider "phoropter" to be today's new
word-of-the-day.  See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoropter
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From zleffke at vt.edu  Sat Jul 18 04:38:59 2020
From: zleffke at vt.edu (Leffke, Zachary)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 04:38:59 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Leveraging Satnogs recordings ( was: request
 detailed system diagram for remoting a satellite station)
In-Reply-To: <CALaYSmkSc6YKtfndnA8mdX1_kDfBhBu7hwQ1mMAqwqTSiehhsg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56d8bc10-2c78-abe5-a15a-de2b6c22d143@charter.net>
	<CAK2MWOuJsbTNmdjbi4SoUr9zTVFnmkn91tfdC6wLWweeefNfhQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFvUaiog+bhwTMV+2YEK3iboRyxqqECFCymtsshZCVTSPC4pMQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALaYSmkSc6YKtfndnA8mdX1_kDfBhBu7hwQ1mMAqwqTSiehhsg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR05MB7037541BBB8E910979F41F60DF7D0@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Also, as a quick afterthought / alternate idea....(and again, I'm not 100% 'up' on the specifics of interfacing with SatNOGS, other than the SiDS protocol details).....

I wonder if an autmated 'scraper' of some sort could be set up for the Fox / HuskySat-1 / GOLF spacecraft specifically for AMSAT-NA (or other AMSATs of the world).

Simple idea is pull the recordings from SatNOGS....run them through the decoders (maybe FoxTLM, maybe something more custom like what Douglas mentioned he was working on, maybe a variant of that like a GNU Radio version, maybe all three) and then inject the decoded data into the AMSAT TLM network.  I feel like some kind of batch process that executes this say every 24 hours, or once a week, or whatever makes sense could be set up to automate the process........

As always there is a lot of 'devil in the detail' there that I didn't mention, and like many things it might be simple to propose, but non-trivial to actually execute (especially on volunteer time).......

Has anyone thought along these lines, or gotten into anything like this?  Again simple summary being 'pull from SatNOGS, decode, inject to AMSAT' and do that automatically.  If such a system existed....what would the appropriate station ID be (the original station ID? Maybe one station ID that identifies the source of the data as a 'scraper' and then a website keeping track of the stats for the scraper independently that maps back to the original station?....something like 'SatNOGS-Scraper-1' with the station details field populated with a link to the scraper stats page?.....I guess that might get weird if the lat/lon of the scraper is constantly changing to match the original station's position.....also how to keep accurate track of timestamps?).  Would prototyping something like this cause heartburn for the TLM database managers (I have visions of half built 'things' flooding the AMSAT TLM server and causing all kinds of problems).  Then again, I believe the fox server side is also on github.....so maybe a separate prototyping instance could be set up?

Just another Friday night thought......

-Zach, KJ4QLP

-- 
Research Associate
Aerospace & Ocean Systems Lab
Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
Work Phone: 540-231-4174
Cell Phone: 540-808-6305


-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Douglas Quagliana via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 8:19 PM
To: peter at 2m0sql.com; Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) <peter at magicbug.co.uk>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Leveraging Satnogs recordings ( was: request detailed system diagram for remoting a satellite station)

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 4:49 PM Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Sadly Satnogs isn't suitable for the job being it's for telemetry only,
> also I don't believe it forwards telemetry to AMSAT-NA or AMSAT-UK so radio
> amateurs would be better off with a different solution.
>

Friends,

Satnogs is an incredible and incredibly underutilized resource for AMSAT.
It doesn't automatically forward telemetry, but you can go to the
appropriate Satnogs site, filter on the satellite you want and download the
audio recording of the pass (or passes) that you want. Then
lather-rinse-repeat for as many passes as you want. I would never have been
able to create as many recordings myself at my home QTH as I can get by
downloading them from Satnogs.  You can get recordings from anywhere on the
planet where there was a ground station that made a recording. (If you're
fully onboard you could even schedule somebody else to make a recording for
you on a particular date/time in the future. Think about that.)

A while back I downloaded several months worth of old Falconsat-3 audio
recordings so that I could run the recordings through my own 9600 DSP
demodulator and see if I could recover any data from the recordings, and
improve the demodulator as much as possible. I wrote some scripts to
convert and filter each ogg recording and then run them all through my
demodulator.  This whole scheme actually worked too well, as I now have
more than enough recordings to keep me busy for a long long time because it
takes my old computer DAYS to process through ALL of those recordings
[footnote 1] and to decide if the latest tweak was an improvement or not.
(Think about your last visit to the eye doctor where you watch the eye
chart through the phoropter [footnote 2] while the eye doctor makes
adjustments to the lenses and asks you if this one is now "Better? Or
worse?" -- well, this is almost the same thing but it takes three days to
find out the answer for each change. But, I digress...)

So far, of the recordings that I downloaded, the most extreme pass is

https://network.satnogs.org/observations/180707/

the audio recording is eighteen megabytes and is online at

https://ia902808.us.archive.org/7/items/satnogs-observation-180707/satnogs_180707_2018-07-12T00-08-11.ogg

The satnogs webpage for this pass shows 644 valid 9600 baud AX.25 packets
this recording so you know it is a good pass with plenty of frames in it.
By throwing everything I can think of at this recording, I can now get over
1000 good frames out of it. Oh, and, hey, if anybody else tries this
recording against their own demodulator, then whatever results you get
please send them to me so I can look for any valid frames I am missing.
And the advantage of the satnogs recordings is that you can keep tweaking
your software iteratively by running the recordings against the "new"
demodulator again, and again, and again, and compare the results.  You
could never achieve this or iterate this many times with live satellite
passes.

73,
Douglas KA2UPW/5
[1] If the whole process doesn't get interrupted... Actually, this says
more about my old slow computer than it says about the speed of the
demodulator.
[2] If you get your eyes checked then you know this device. You just might
not know the name for it.  Consider "phoropter" to be today's new
word-of-the-day.  See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoropter
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From johnbrier at gmail.com  Sat Jul 18 04:53:50 2020
From: johnbrier at gmail.com (John Brier)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 00:53:50 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Websites Down ? amsat.org and parens.com
In-Reply-To: <CAPOM0d=5GNd9E9vY5kchGASB9dt_-rNpc5V-G8tUjxi8tfzjXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1211673969.3408811.1595021413946.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1211673969.3408811.1595021413946@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAFvUaio60XQk=BfPoF911g_wGQevH7Os0oWBYq0c4e1YXkv=Zw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPOM0d=5GNd9E9vY5kchGASB9dt_-rNpc5V-G8tUjxi8tfzjXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALn0fKO7i3eLAAzct4CR2Fi7he+CPsSxU4a1YOoYQEGswtkSnw@mail.gmail.com>

It probably was the cloudflare outage:

https://www.digitaltrends.com/news/cloudflare-is-down-outage/

73, John Brier KG4AKV

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 11:46 PM Kenneth P Alexander via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> I wonder if it affected Google too?  I wasn't able to connect to my
> computer in VE3 via Chrome Remote Desktop for over a day.  Just returned to
> normal yesterday afternoon.
>
> Ken,
> So Phisai, Thailand
> Blog:  bueng-ken.com
>
> On Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 06:27 Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > Probably better to wait for facts before saying it was a attack
> >
> > I suspect they all used Cloudflare DNS which had an outage.
> >
> > Peter, 2M0SQL
> >
> > On Fri, 17 Jul 2020, 23:16 Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB, <
> > amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Am I the only one having trouble accessing these websites?
> > > If this is an attack against either group - I strongly disapprove of this
> > > type of hacking.
> > > Bruce - is everything okay?
> > > Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License. http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> > > . http://www.spaceCommunicator.club
> > > . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space
> > > Exploration
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions
> > > expressed
> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From ve3hls at gmail.com  Sat Jul 18 05:48:10 2020
From: ve3hls at gmail.com (Kenneth P Alexander)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 05:48:10 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Websites Down ? amsat.org and parens.com
In-Reply-To: <CALn0fKO7i3eLAAzct4CR2Fi7he+CPsSxU4a1YOoYQEGswtkSnw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1211673969.3408811.1595021413946.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1211673969.3408811.1595021413946@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAFvUaio60XQk=BfPoF911g_wGQevH7Os0oWBYq0c4e1YXkv=Zw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPOM0d=5GNd9E9vY5kchGASB9dt_-rNpc5V-G8tUjxi8tfzjXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALn0fKO7i3eLAAzct4CR2Fi7he+CPsSxU4a1YOoYQEGswtkSnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPOM0dm7hjCmh0fvtkFKvmUTz9aOcAUZ=zhSBBMtApB15mrZGg@mail.gmail.com>

Interesting.  Thanks John!

I hope everything stays up for the North American QSO Party (RTTY) this
weekend...

Ken, VE3HLS
So Phisai, Thailand
Blog:  bueng-ken.com


On Sat, Jul 18, 2020 at 4:54 AM John Brier <johnbrier at gmail.com> wrote:

> It probably was the cloudflare outage:
>
> https://www.digitaltrends.com/news/cloudflare-is-down-outage/
>
> 73, John Brier KG4AKV
>
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 11:46 PM Kenneth P Alexander via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > I wonder if it affected Google too?  I wasn't able to connect to my
> > computer in VE3 via Chrome Remote Desktop for over a day.  Just returned
> to
> > normal yesterday afternoon.
> >
> > Ken,
> > So Phisai, Thailand
> > Blog:  bueng-ken.com
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 06:27 Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Probably better to wait for facts before saying it was a attack
> > >
> > > I suspect they all used Cloudflare DNS which had an outage.
> > >
> > > Peter, 2M0SQL
> > >
> > > On Fri, 17 Jul 2020, 23:16 Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB, <
> > > amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Am I the only one having trouble accessing these websites?
> > > > If this is an attack against either group - I strongly disapprove of
> this
> > > > type of hacking.
> > > > Bruce - is everything okay?
> > > > Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.
> http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> > > > . http://www.spaceCommunicator.club
> > > > . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space
> > > > Exploration
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> > > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > > Opinions
> > > > expressed
> > > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of
> > > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > > program!
> > > > Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > > expressed
> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From clintbradford at mac.com  Sat Jul 18 06:59:26 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 23:59:26 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOt1vURvBbBDK4WnA-QQMzK9AXkJ2RhNNZJEH5YqhTHUSg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.7403.1595015190.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<9BED4E43-B35F-474B-A3AC-D7667D48E3F6@mac.com>
	<CAK2MWOt1vURvBbBDK4WnA-QQMzK9AXkJ2RhNNZJEH5YqhTHUSg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AB7EE488-B481-434C-A39A-7CFC36DFB65A@mac.com>

This is a weak argument. Weaker than weak. Just because one has a single account does not mean that 
records are not kept of what is in it, and where it came from.

Clint Bradford K6LCS



> On Jul 17, 2020, at 2:52 PM, Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
> 
> It all goes in the same bank account.  


From clintbradford at mac.com  Sat Jul 18 07:08:54 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 00:08:54 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] GOLF Equipment
Message-ID: <375225C0-A2AA-4F4D-938F-0157DF05896D@mac.com>

What is anticipated as a ?starter? station to wotk the first GOLF satellite to be deployed?

Clint Bradford K6LCS

From clintbradford at mac.com  Sat Jul 18 07:14:24 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 00:14:24 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Candidate WE4B Inquiry
In-Reply-To: <FE59EF99-E3AD-494C-A617-75736FA1EB6C@mac.com>
References: <FE59EF99-E3AD-494C-A617-75736FA1EB6C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CC800069-0D58-4C33-8609-2E5CE3CC236F@mac.com>

Thanks - your non-response speaks volumes.

Clint Bradford K6LCS




> On Jul 17, 2020, at 4:16 AM, Clint Bradford <clintbradford at mac.com> wrote:
> 
> Candidate WE4B - please list for us the projects you have volunteered for
> for AMSAT-NA. Specifically for AMSAT-NA - and not just general satellite
> contacts. Say, for the past 10 years.
> 
> Many thanks.
> 
> Clint Bradford K6LCS


From robert.machale at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 18 12:26:15 2020
From: robert.machale at yahoo.com (Robert MacHale)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 12:26:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Wise Legal Expenses
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOueG3Yf=wWH4kr3EAn46bWSr76XvY2767x4r5ox8ogJgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <594720251.3486452.1595034931934.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<594720251.3486452.1595034931934@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAK2MWOueG3Yf=wWH4kr3EAn46bWSr76XvY2767x4r5ox8ogJgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <734207357.3585451.1595075175592@mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for correcting me - again. I still remember when you corrected my conference poster at DX Convention 2018 at my Satellite APRS talk. Touche.

[1] Dad (N6DAN) & Robert (KE6BLR) -?https://twitter.com/robert_machale/status/1284460558092140544

You noticed the "X.25" should have read "AX.25" - rather than replace the poster, to save money, I just added an "A" sticker from my Angels baseball memorabilia. :)

[2] Angels Sticker -?https://twitter.com/robert_machale/status/1284458200708743168

Glad to see you are injecting life and energy into AmSat. Remember to be kind and patient. AmSat is not exactly a startup run by liberal technocrats; as in most companies - conservative administrators settle in to keep the pattern running.

[3] Bruce (K6BP) & Robert (KE6BLR) -?https://twitter.com/robert_machale/status/1284460709342900224

Cheers!

BTW, did you notice FreeSWITCH recommends Debian - just a random observation.

>>> Debian 10 Buster?(preferred) The development team uses and builds against Debian 10 "Buster". They recommend Debian because of its stable, yet updated, kernel and wide support.?

For reference: https://freeswitch.org/confluence/display/FREESWITCH/Installation

Robert MacHale
. KE6BLR Ham Radio License
.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration

Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!Political Quote:?He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Paine

Presidential Quote by George Washington:?May the Children of the?Stock of Abraham, who dwell in this land, continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other Inhabitants; while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and figtree, and there shall be none to make him afraid.



On Friday, July 17, 2020, 08:07:47 PM PDT, Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote: 





Hi Robert,

Unfortunately, you are stating the time sequence backward.

If you read the explanation letter signed by the whole AMSAT board, the legal expenses are in 2018-2019. The demand letter came at the end of the legal process, when the majority of the funds had already been spent. When they got the demand letter, AMSAT's attorneys relented and the board did what was demanded in the letter, and Joe resigned (for reasons he has chosen not to elaborate upon). Michelle and Patrick's blogs are public and you can read it there, it is clear that there were many attempts to communicate before the demand was made.

It also is important to note that AMSAT had lawyers directed at Michelle and Patrick long, long before?they got their own lawyer.

? ? Thanks

? ? Bruce

? ? Thanks

? ? Bruce

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 6:19 PM Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> To all who claim the legal expenses were a waste of money, consider this:
> 
> 
>>>>In January 2020, a demand letter arrived at AMSAT from an attorney representing Directors Thompson and Stoddard. 
> 
> 
> Submitting a demand letter from an attorney is a really big deal. That legal line was first crossed by the new board members. Apparently, Joe Spier resigned at this point in order to avoid unfair legal entanglements - and, as far as I can tell from the few interactions I have had with Joe - he is a kind person.
> 
> Plenty of evidence, plenty of facts - obviously point to AmSat not keeping up with the times. But that does not justify legal betrayal of existing board members by new members in an effort to usurp full control of the board. A more perfect response would have been to do nothing until the election cycle and hope to replace the board members who may have been dragging their feet.
> 
> My point is this - nobody should be making the argument the legal expenses were not required. Hearing this from the members who delivered the demand letter feels insulting on many levels and should stop. Own it - the members who brought the demand, and their Backer(s), are ultimately responsible for the costs incurred. Actions have consequences - and side-effects.
> 
> Ends do not justify means. There is a right way and a wrong way to move forward. Trust is more valuable than performance.
> 
> The legal expenditures were both Wise and Required. The demand letter sent by the new board members was neither. Shifting blame and not owning the side-effects of our actions is less than optimal.
> 
> This observation is not a vote in favor or against any member or candidate.
> 
> For reference: https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2020-July/078239.html
> 
> Robert MacHale
> . KE6BLR Ham Radio License
> .?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> .?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
> . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
> 
> Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 


-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually :-)

From mat_62 at charter.net  Sat Jul 18 13:55:56 2020
From: mat_62 at charter.net (Michael Tondee)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 09:55:56 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Candidate W4EB Inquiry
Message-ID: <d35ba509-a666-a0bc-3100-dd52729f3188@charter.net>

Some people who do volunteer or charity work for an organization or make 
contributions do so anonymously and without much fanfare. Recognition is 
not why they do it. They are content to work behind the scenes quietly 
and don't feel the need to shout from the rooftops LOOK AT ME! Still 
others, may not do anything besides pay dues for years and then feel 
some sort of personal call to action and start to speak out where they 
see change needed and then maybe they even run for office in said 
organization. I can't speak for W4EB and what his motivations are. 
Personally though, I've been quiet about the stagnation of this 
organization for years and voted with my wallet by not supporting it. 
That's changed and now I feel the need to speak out. I will say that all 
the candidates running are braver than I am because I would not care to 
subject myself to the type of veiled attacks you're making. The fact 
someone chooses not to play silly games of one upmanship with you speaks 
volumes alright. It shows of what good character they are and I hope the 
voters in the coming election realize that. It's too late for me to join 
and vote now but now I'm wishing I had.

73,

Michael, W4HIJ


Message: 7
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 00:14:24 -0700
From: Clint Bradford<clintbradford at mac.com>
To: AMSAT BB<amsat-bb at AMSAT.Org>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Candidate WE4B Inquiry
Message-ID:<CC800069-0D58-4C33-8609-2E5CE3CC236F at mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii

Thanks - your non-response speaks volumes.

Clint Bradford K6LCS




> On Jul 17, 2020, at 4:16 AM, Clint Bradford<clintbradford at mac.com>  wrote:
>
> Candidate WE4B - please list for us the projects you have volunteered for
> for AMSAT-NA. Specifically for AMSAT-NA - and not just general satellite
> contacts. Say, for the past 10 years.
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Clint Bradford K6LCS


From rwmcgwier at gmail.com  Sat Jul 18 15:12:56 2020
From: rwmcgwier at gmail.com (Robert McGwier)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 10:12:56 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] New approach, in my blog
Message-ID: <CA+K5gzcjuFgQWtc133oqbbC6Uip_iyC4KY9eOU5GQVwgMCEijg@mail.gmail.com>

I am going to be writing about my AMSAT board candidacy in my blog. Any
corrections, please send them. If you are an AMSAT member, I would
appreciate your vote.

https://n4hy.blogspot.com/2020/07/amsat-bod-elections-2020.html

-- 
Bob McGwier
Founder, Federated Wireless, Inc
Founder and Technical Advisor, HawkEye 360, Inc
Adjunct Professor Virginia Tech
Former Chief Scientist:  The Ted and Karyn Hume Center for National
Security and Technology
Senior Member IEEE, Facebook: N4HYBob, ARS: N4HY

From kk5do at arrl.net  Sat Jul 18 15:30:12 2020
From: kk5do at arrl.net (Bruce)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 10:30:12 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Election
References: <f4d5e204-e4c7-cf9c-966b-7d1d61320d9a.ref@arrl.net>
Message-ID: <f4d5e204-e4c7-cf9c-966b-7d1d61320d9a@arrl.net>

Thank you to all the members that nominated me for the AMSAT Board of
Directors which was way more than the minimum 5 required. For those of you who don't know me, my name is Bruce Paige, KK5DO. An AMSAT Life Member, I have been on the board multiple times since I became a life member in 1993. I have also been the AMSAT Director of Contests and Awards since 2001.

Please take the time to make an informed decision in this year's election. My bio and passion for ham radio can be found at the links below.

I encourage you to read my candidate statement at
https://www.upwardtoheo.com/biographies/bruce-paige-kk5do

I've also written some more information about why I'm running for the Board at
https://www.upwardtoheo.com/updates/kk5dos-passion-for-ham-radio

Former AMSAT President Barry Baines, WD4ASW, explains why Mark, N8MH,
Paul, N8MH, and I are the best choices in this election at
https://www.upwardtoheo.com/updates/former-amsat-president-barry-baines-wd4asw-endorses-n8hm-n8mh-and-kk5do

73,

Bruce, KK5DO


From wizardofzid at gmail.com  Sat Jul 18 16:08:40 2020
From: wizardofzid at gmail.com (Russ Kinner)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 09:08:40 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Special Callsign 4A15DXXE
Message-ID: <877b346c-2a36-640a-3b7e-9640f9dedf24@gmail.com>

Some of you may have heard a unique callsign on the FM birds 4A15DXXE.? 
It is Grupo DXXE 15th Anniversary Special Event Station which will be 
operating all year.? They QSL via LotW only.? More info: 
http://www.dxxe.org/4a15dxxe

I worked them last night on AO-92.

Rusty? WA8ZID


From amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net  Sat Jul 18 16:26:39 2020
From: amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net (Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK))
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 16:26:39 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Special Callsign 4A15DXXE
In-Reply-To: <877b346c-2a36-640a-3b7e-9640f9dedf24@gmail.com>
References: <877b346c-2a36-640a-3b7e-9640f9dedf24@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN6TEUeLYYcfoEnwn39pPvGXQvE5FyQhaiyRiQjPsn8jxDzCnA@mail.gmail.com>

Rusty,

Yes, Rafael XE2RV has been operating as 4A15DXXE lately. Rafael is
hoping to achieve satellite VUCC as 4A15DXXE from his home in
northern Mexico, in grid DL55. I think he is at 49 or 50 grids so far,
and hopes to get to at least 100 grids before the end of this year. If
you hear 4A15DXXE on the air, please give Rafael a call. If you have
already worked 4A15DXXE at home, and have an opportunity to operate
from other grids, please consider calling 4A15DXXE from those other
locations.

73!




Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK





On Sat, Jul 18, 2020 at 4:09 PM Russ Kinner via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Some of you may have heard a unique callsign on the FM birds 4A15DXXE.
> It is Grupo DXXE 15th Anniversary Special Event Station which will be
> operating all year.  They QSL via LotW only.  More info:
> http://www.dxxe.org/4a15dxxe
>
> I worked them last night on AO-92.
>
> Rusty  WA8ZID
>
>
>

From kb2ysi at gmail.com  Sat Jul 18 16:28:10 2020
From: kb2ysi at gmail.com (Don KB2YSI)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 12:28:10 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Special Callsign 4A15DXXE
In-Reply-To: <877b346c-2a36-640a-3b7e-9640f9dedf24@gmail.com>
References: <877b346c-2a36-640a-3b7e-9640f9dedf24@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAJiE8PR_-LMM=VYgwgSCiZMbnatq1-HtdaxdgAAWhzUGXRChg@mail.gmail.com>

Rafa XE2RV is at the helm. He's trying to get VUCC, so give him a call!

No blind calling though. There are enough people doing that already. It is
a GREAT way to not get a QSO!

On Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 12:10 Russ Kinner via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Some of you may have heard a unique callsign on the FM birds 4A15DXXE.
> It is Grupo DXXE 15th Anniversary Special Event Station which will be
> operating all year.  They QSL via LotW only.  More info:
> http://www.dxxe.org/4a15dxxe
>
> I worked them last night on AO-92.
>
> Rusty  WA8ZID
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 18 16:37:41 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (GEO Badger)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 16:37:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Wise Legal Expenses
In-Reply-To: <734207357.3585451.1595075175592@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <594720251.3486452.1595034931934.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<594720251.3486452.1595034931934@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAK2MWOueG3Yf=wWH4kr3EAn46bWSr76XvY2767x4r5ox8ogJgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<734207357.3585451.1595075175592@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1099537312.3651973.1595090261246@mail.yahoo.com>

Robert,
Always digging at someone aren't you? Politics has no place on the Amsat BB.
".....AmSat is not exactly a startup run by liberal technocrats; as in most companies - conservative administrators settle in to keep the pattern running....."

If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all. Please.

---? 
 Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side??
73 de W3AB/GEO ??? 

 http://www.w3ab.org

You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out". 

    On Saturday, July 18, 2020, 05:36:13 AM PDT, Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 Hi Bruce,

Thanks for correcting me - again. I still remember when you corrected my conference poster at DX Convention 2018 at my Satellite APRS talk. Touche.

[1] Dad (N6DAN) & Robert (KE6BLR) -?https://twitter.com/robert_machale/status/1284460558092140544

You noticed the "X.25" should have read "AX.25" - rather than replace the poster, to save money, I just added an "A" sticker from my Angels baseball memorabilia. :)

[2] Angels Sticker -?https://twitter.com/robert_machale/status/1284458200708743168

Glad to see you are injecting life and energy into AmSat. Remember to be kind and patient. AmSat is not exactly a startup run by liberal technocrats; as in most companies - conservative administrators settle in to keep the pattern running.

[3] Bruce (K6BP) & Robert (KE6BLR) -?https://twitter.com/robert_machale/status/1284460709342900224

Cheers!

BTW, did you notice FreeSWITCH recommends Debian - just a random observation.

>>> Debian 10 Buster?(preferred) The development team uses and builds against Debian 10 "Buster". They recommend Debian because of its stable, yet updated, kernel and wide support.?

For reference: https://freeswitch.org/confluence/display/FREESWITCH/Installation

Robert MacHale
. KE6BLR Ham Radio License
.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration

Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!Political Quote:?He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Paine

Presidential Quote by George Washington:?May the Children of the?Stock of Abraham, who dwell in this land, continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other Inhabitants; while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and figtree, and there shall be none to make him afraid.



On Friday, July 17, 2020, 08:07:47 PM PDT, Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote: 





Hi Robert,

Unfortunately, you are stating the time sequence backward.

If you read the explanation letter signed by the whole AMSAT board, the legal expenses are in 2018-2019. The demand letter came at the end of the legal process, when the majority of the funds had already been spent. When they got the demand letter, AMSAT's attorneys relented and the board did what was demanded in the letter, and Joe resigned (for reasons he has chosen not to elaborate upon). Michelle and Patrick's blogs are public and you can read it there, it is clear that there were many attempts to communicate before the demand was made.

It also is important to note that AMSAT had lawyers directed at Michelle and Patrick long, long before?they got their own lawyer.

? ? Thanks

? ? Bruce

? ? Thanks

? ? Bruce

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 6:19 PM Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> To all who claim the legal expenses were a waste of money, consider this:
> 
> 
>>>>In January 2020, a demand letter arrived at AMSAT from an attorney representing Directors Thompson and Stoddard. 
> 
> 
> Submitting a demand letter from an attorney is a really big deal. That legal line was first crossed by the new board members. Apparently, Joe Spier resigned at this point in order to avoid unfair legal entanglements - and, as far as I can tell from the few interactions I have had with Joe - he is a kind person.
> 
> Plenty of evidence, plenty of facts - obviously point to AmSat not keeping up with the times. But that does not justify legal betrayal of existing board members by new members in an effort to usurp full control of the board. A more perfect response would have been to do nothing until the election cycle and hope to replace the board members who may have been dragging their feet.
> 
> My point is this - nobody should be making the argument the legal expenses were not required. Hearing this from the members who delivered the demand letter feels insulting on many levels and should stop. Own it - the members who brought the demand, and their Backer(s), are ultimately responsible for the costs incurred. Actions have consequences - and side-effects.
> 
> Ends do not justify means. There is a right way and a wrong way to move forward. Trust is more valuable than performance.
> 
> The legal expenditures were both Wise and Required. The demand letter sent by the new board members was neither. Shifting blame and not owning the side-effects of our actions is less than optimal.
> 
> This observation is not a vote in favor or against any member or candidate.
> 
> For reference: https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2020-July/078239.html
> 
> Robert MacHale
> . KE6BLR Ham Radio License
> .?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> .?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
> . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
> 
> Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 


-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually :-)
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From bruce at perens.com  Sat Jul 18 16:56:58 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 09:56:58 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Wise Legal Expenses
In-Reply-To: <1099537312.3651973.1595090261246@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <594720251.3486452.1595034931934.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<594720251.3486452.1595034931934@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAK2MWOueG3Yf=wWH4kr3EAn46bWSr76XvY2767x4r5ox8ogJgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<734207357.3585451.1595075175592@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1099537312.3651973.1595090261246@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOtaqbER=2XdNz8kzNSafYAOT1mQMW0WYhpdm3GD8uUPxA@mail.gmail.com>

I think Robert is echoing the old-space versus new-space dichotomy. We have
Boeing and ULA doing things the way they have since 1960, and then we have
SpaceX, doing things faster, cheaper and so far better, but Elon says
things that even drive me nuts! Still, it is SpaceX who has brought us
economical launch opportunities and will continue to do so.

As a (so far not rich) partner in a VC firm, I am very appreciative of
people who can keep a tight eye on money! In the same company I would like
to have people who push the technology to the bleeding edge. There is a
place for a liberal technocrats and conservatives under the same umbrella.

Thanks

Bruce

On Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 9:37 AM GEO Badger <w3ab at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Robert,
>
> Always digging at someone aren't you? Politics has no place on the Amsat
> BB.
>
> ".....AmSat is not exactly a startup run by liberal technocrats; as in
> most companies - conservative administrators settle in to keep the pattern
> running....."
>
> If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all. Please.
>
>
> ---
> Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side
>
> 73 de W3AB/GEO
>
> http://www.w3ab.org
>
> You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out".
>
>
> On Saturday, July 18, 2020, 05:36:13 AM PDT, Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Bruce,
>
> Thanks for correcting me - again. I still remember when you corrected my
> conference poster at DX Convention 2018 at my Satellite APRS talk. Touche.
>
> [1] Dad (N6DAN) & Robert (KE6BLR) -
> https://twitter.com/robert_machale/status/1284460558092140544
>
> You noticed the "X.25" should have read "AX.25" - rather than replace the
> poster, to save money, I just added an "A" sticker from my Angels baseball
> memorabilia. :)
>
> [2] Angels Sticker -
> https://twitter.com/robert_machale/status/1284458200708743168
>
> Glad to see you are injecting life and energy into AmSat. Remember to be
> kind and patient. AmSat is not exactly a startup run by liberal
> technocrats; as in most companies - conservative administrators settle in
> to keep the pattern running.
>
> [3] Bruce (K6BP) & Robert (KE6BLR) -
> https://twitter.com/robert_machale/status/1284460709342900224
>
> Cheers!
>
> BTW, did you notice FreeSWITCH recommends Debian - just a random
> observation.
>
> >>> Debian 10 Buster (preferred) The development team uses and builds
> against Debian 10 "Buster". They recommend Debian because of its stable,
> yet updated, kernel and wide support.
>
> For reference:
> https://freeswitch.org/confluence/display/FREESWITCH/Installation
>
> Robert MacHale
> . KE6BLR Ham Radio License
> . http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> . http://www.spaceCommunicator.club  <http://www.spaceCommunicator.club>
> . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space
> Exploration
>
> Silly Joke: What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi
> Cliff!Political Quote: He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas
> Paine
>
> Presidential Quote by George Washington: May the Children of the Stock of
> Abraham, who dwell in this land, continue to merit and enjoy the good will
> of the other Inhabitants; while every one shall sit in safety under his own
> vine and figtree, and there shall be none to make him afraid.
>
>
>
> On Friday, July 17, 2020, 08:07:47 PM PDT, Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Robert,
>
> Unfortunately, you are stating the time sequence backward.
>
> If you read the explanation letter signed by the whole AMSAT board, the
> legal expenses are in 2018-2019. The demand letter came at the end of the
> legal process, when the majority of the funds had already been spent. When
> they got the demand letter, AMSAT's attorneys relented and the board did
> what was demanded in the letter, and Joe resigned (for reasons he has
> chosen not to elaborate upon). Michelle and Patrick's blogs are public and
> you can read it there, it is clear that there were many attempts to
> communicate before the demand was made.
>
> It also is important to note that AMSAT had lawyers directed at Michelle
> and Patrick long, long before they got their own lawyer.
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Bruce
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Bruce
>
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 6:19 PM Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> > To all who claim the legal expenses were a waste of money, consider this:
> >
> >
> >>>>In January 2020, a demand letter arrived at AMSAT from an attorney
> representing Directors Thompson and Stoddard.
> >
> >
> > Submitting a demand letter from an attorney is a really big deal. That
> legal line was first crossed by the new board members. Apparently, Joe
> Spier resigned at this point in order to avoid unfair legal entanglements -
> and, as far as I can tell from the few interactions I have had with Joe -
> he is a kind person.
> >
> > Plenty of evidence, plenty of facts - obviously point to AmSat not
> keeping up with the times. But that does not justify legal betrayal of
> existing board members by new members in an effort to usurp full control of
> the board. A more perfect response would have been to do nothing until the
> election cycle and hope to replace the board members who may have been
> dragging their feet.
> >
> > My point is this - nobody should be making the argument the legal
> expenses were not required. Hearing this from the members who delivered the
> demand letter feels insulting on many levels and should stop. Own it - the
> members who brought the demand, and their Backer(s), are ultimately
> responsible for the costs incurred. Actions have consequences - and
> side-effects.
> >
> > Ends do not justify means. There is a right way and a wrong way to move
> forward. Trust is more valuable than performance.
> >
> > The legal expenditures were both Wise and Required. The demand letter
> sent by the new board members was neither. Shifting blame and not owning
> the side-effects of our actions is less than optimal.
> >
> > This observation is not a vote in favor or against any member or
> candidate.
> >
> > For reference:
> https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2020-July/078239.html
> >
> > Robert MacHale
> > . KE6BLR Ham Radio License
> > . http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> > . http://www.spaceCommunicator.club  <http://www.spaceCommunicator.club>
> > . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space
> Exploration
> >
> > Silly Joke: What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi
> Cliff!
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
>
>
> --
> Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
> :-)
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From robert.machale at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 18 17:50:45 2020
From: robert.machale at yahoo.com (Robert MacHale)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:50:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Wise Legal Expenses
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOtaqbER=2XdNz8kzNSafYAOT1mQMW0WYhpdm3GD8uUPxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <594720251.3486452.1595034931934.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<594720251.3486452.1595034931934@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAK2MWOueG3Yf=wWH4kr3EAn46bWSr76XvY2767x4r5ox8ogJgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<734207357.3585451.1595075175592@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1099537312.3651973.1595090261246@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAK2MWOtaqbER=2XdNz8kzNSafYAOT1mQMW0WYhpdm3GD8uUPxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1176739888.3679995.1595094645358@mail.yahoo.com>

The tension in any organization between Innovators vs. Maintainers is real. Psychologists Dr. Jordan Peterson can explain this better. Sticking our head in the ground in denial does not make it go away.
Each of us is wired one of two ways. Accepting those opposing views creates respect and understanding. It's neither good or bad nor is it nice or mean.
The tension is necessary and good.
Checkout Jordan Peterson on YouTube.
And yes, Elon Musk is my hero, Bruce has a good point on SpaceX vs. Establishment.
Sincerely,
Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration

Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!

Political Quote:?
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Paine
 

    On Saturday, July 18, 2020, 09:57:11 AM PDT, Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:  
 
 I think Robert is echoing the old-space versus new-space dichotomy. We have Boeing and ULA doing things the way they have since 1960, and then we have SpaceX, doing things faster, cheaper and so far better, but Elon says things that even drive me nuts! Still, it is SpaceX who has brought us economical launch opportunities and will continue to do so.
As a (so far not rich) partner in a VC firm, I am very appreciative of people who can keep a tight eye on money! In the same company I would like to have people who push the technology to the bleeding edge. There is a place for a liberal technocrats and conservatives under the same umbrella.
Thanks
Bruce
On Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 9:37 AM GEO Badger <w3ab at yahoo.com> wrote:

Robert,
Always digging at someone aren't you? Politics has no place on the Amsat BB.
".....AmSat is not exactly a startup run by liberal technocrats; as in most companies - conservative administrators settle in to keep the pattern running....."

If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all. Please.

---? 
 Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side??
73 de W3AB/GEO ??? 

 http://www.w3ab.org

You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out". 

    On Saturday, July 18, 2020, 05:36:13 AM PDT, Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 Hi Bruce,

Thanks for correcting me - again. I still remember when you corrected my conference poster at DX Convention 2018 at my Satellite APRS talk. Touche.

[1] Dad (N6DAN) & Robert (KE6BLR) -?https://twitter.com/robert_machale/status/1284460558092140544

You noticed the "X.25" should have read "AX.25" - rather than replace the poster, to save money, I just added an "A" sticker from my Angels baseball memorabilia. :)

[2] Angels Sticker -?https://twitter.com/robert_machale/status/1284458200708743168

Glad to see you are injecting life and energy into AmSat. Remember to be kind and patient. AmSat is not exactly a startup run by liberal technocrats; as in most companies - conservative administrators settle in to keep the pattern running.

[3] Bruce (K6BP) & Robert (KE6BLR) -?https://twitter.com/robert_machale/status/1284460709342900224

Cheers!

BTW, did you notice FreeSWITCH recommends Debian - just a random observation.

>>> Debian 10 Buster?(preferred) The development team uses and builds against Debian 10 "Buster". They recommend Debian because of its stable, yet updated, kernel and wide support.?

For reference: https://freeswitch.org/confluence/display/FREESWITCH/Installation

Robert MacHale
. KE6BLR Ham Radio License
.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration

Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!Political Quote:?He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Paine

Presidential Quote by George Washington:?May the Children of the?Stock of Abraham, who dwell in this land, continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other Inhabitants; while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and figtree, and there shall be none to make him afraid.



On Friday, July 17, 2020, 08:07:47 PM PDT, Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote: 





Hi Robert,

Unfortunately, you are stating the time sequence backward.

If you read the explanation letter signed by the whole AMSAT board, the legal expenses are in 2018-2019. The demand letter came at the end of the legal process, when the majority of the funds had already been spent. When they got the demand letter, AMSAT's attorneys relented and the board did what was demanded in the letter, and Joe resigned (for reasons he has chosen not to elaborate upon). Michelle and Patrick's blogs are public and you can read it there, it is clear that there were many attempts to communicate before the demand was made.

It also is important to note that AMSAT had lawyers directed at Michelle and Patrick long, long before?they got their own lawyer.

? ? Thanks

? ? Bruce

? ? Thanks

? ? Bruce

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 6:19 PM Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> To all who claim the legal expenses were a waste of money, consider this:
> 
> 
>>>>In January 2020, a demand letter arrived at AMSAT from an attorney representing Directors Thompson and Stoddard. 
> 
> 
> Submitting a demand letter from an attorney is a really big deal. That legal line was first crossed by the new board members. Apparently, Joe Spier resigned at this point in order to avoid unfair legal entanglements - and, as far as I can tell from the few interactions I have had with Joe - he is a kind person.
> 
> Plenty of evidence, plenty of facts - obviously point to AmSat not keeping up with the times. But that does not justify legal betrayal of existing board members by new members in an effort to usurp full control of the board. A more perfect response would have been to do nothing until the election cycle and hope to replace the board members who may have been dragging their feet.
> 
> My point is this - nobody should be making the argument the legal expenses were not required. Hearing this from the members who delivered the demand letter feels insulting on many levels and should stop. Own it - the members who brought the demand, and their Backer(s), are ultimately responsible for the costs incurred. Actions have consequences - and side-effects.
> 
> Ends do not justify means. There is a right way and a wrong way to move forward. Trust is more valuable than performance.
> 
> The legal expenditures were both Wise and Required. The demand letter sent by the new board members was neither. Shifting blame and not owning the side-effects of our actions is less than optimal.
> 
> This observation is not a vote in favor or against any member or candidate.
> 
> For reference: https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2020-July/078239.html
> 
> Robert MacHale
> . KE6BLR Ham Radio License
> .?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> .?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
> . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
> 
> Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 


-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually :-)
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  
  

From w9gb at icloud.com  Sat Jul 18 20:09:37 2020
From: w9gb at icloud.com (Gregory Beat)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 15:09:37 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT 2020 BoD Ballot Arrived : ??
Message-ID: <23A8990C-5775-4773-896E-0366C5DCC523@icloud.com>

I received the 2020 AMSAT BoD ballot via US Postal Service today.

I noticed that the envelope for this ballot is addressed to the AMSAT Secretary, Brennan Price, at a post office box in Vienna, VA.
The envelope has my return address pre-printed in the upper left corner.

The standard mail-in ballot practice, is to NOT use an identifiable return address.
A separate ballot envelope (sometimes a different, specific color) is provided for the member?s ballot.  This assures that the member?s ballot remains Secret and the envelope only Opened during the physical counting process.  This minimizes or eliminates Ballot Tampering.
==
The 2020 mail-in ballot process is different than the 2019 election, when AMSAT used a third-party to assure a secret ballot for BoD election process.
I previously worked for Ernst&Young, which handles sensitive and visible balloting for many high-profile organizations (expect the Oscars, that is PwC).

I raise my hand in objection, that this 2020 mail-in balloting method does not assure the line of secrecy from member to the vote counting (tabulation) process.

Greg Beat, w9gb
AMSAT-NA life member
==
ANS-188 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletins
DATE: 2019 July 7
To All RADIO AMATEURS
2019 AMSAT Board of Directors Election Update

The 2019 AMSAT Board of Directors election will be conducted differently than in past elections. In previous years, the balloting process was handled by multiple vendors. This year, AMSAT has contracted with a single, independent party, ElectionBuddy, to conduct and fully manage the election process.
Sincerely,
Clayton L. Coleman, W5PFG
AMSAT Secretary


Sent from iPad Air

From bruce at perens.com  Sat Jul 18 20:38:01 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 13:38:01 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT 2020 BoD Ballot Arrived : ??
In-Reply-To: <23A8990C-5775-4773-896E-0366C5DCC523@icloud.com>
References: <23A8990C-5775-4773-896E-0366C5DCC523@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOuZEX5BOH-5Fvrwpc2aSNHTF6=iByo2zFmCVv4uzAfc2g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Gregory,

I believe that Brennan was doing his best to run a fair election, and this
is an unintentional mistake. Brennan was under pressure to make things less
fair, and did not.

On Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 1:11 PM Gregory Beat via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> I received the 2020 AMSAT BoD ballot via US Postal Service today.
>
> I noticed that the envelope for this ballot is addressed to the AMSAT
> Secretary, Brennan Price, at a post office box in Vienna, VA.
> The envelope has my return address pre-printed in the upper left corner.
>
> The standard mail-in ballot practice, is to NOT use an identifiable return
> address.
> A separate ballot envelope (sometimes a different, specific color) is
> provided for the member?s ballot.  This assures that the member?s ballot
> remains Secret and the envelope only Opened during the physical counting
> process.  This minimizes or eliminates Ballot Tampering.
> ==
> The 2020 mail-in ballot process is different than the 2019 election, when
> AMSAT used a third-party to assure a secret ballot for BoD election process.
> I previously worked for Ernst&Young, which handles sensitive and visible
> balloting for many high-profile organizations (expect the Oscars, that is
> PwC).
>
> I raise my hand in objection, that this 2020 mail-in balloting method does
> not assure the line of secrecy from member to the vote counting
> (tabulation) process.
>
> Greg Beat, w9gb
> AMSAT-NA life member
> ==
> ANS-188 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletins
> DATE: 2019 July 7
> To All RADIO AMATEURS
> 2019 AMSAT Board of Directors Election Update
>
> The 2019 AMSAT Board of Directors election will be conducted differently
> than in past elections. In previous years, the balloting process was
> handled by multiple vendors. This year, AMSAT has contracted with a single,
> independent party, ElectionBuddy, to conduct and fully manage the election
> process.
> Sincerely,
> Clayton L. Coleman, W5PFG
> AMSAT Secretary
>
>
> Sent from iPad Air
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From kj9idave at charter.net  Sat Jul 18 21:13:35 2020
From: kj9idave at charter.net (David J. Schmocker)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 16:13:35 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] RFI/EMI-quiet LED 48 inch T8 tube lights (to replace
	fluorescents)
Message-ID: <8e7ed96e-c201-a733-cf5e-a55c79ebf41d@charter.net>

Everyone:
Some of us have fluorescent tube-lights in our homes or garages and 
desire to replace them with energy-efficient LED bulbs. However as 
weak-signal enthusiasts, many LED bulbs are electrically noisy.

So I set out to identify and test LED bulbs that are both energy 
efficient and EMI/RFI quiet (starting at 50.2 MHz because I do 
moon-bounce work there).

This need for electrical quiet applies also to 2m and 70cm and other 
satellite bands too.


50.2 MHz test findings:

Test site (KJ9I QTH): N5654 County Road F? Sullivan, WI 53178

Test location: basement of residence (location of these lights)

Test date: May 2020

Test result: no change in WSJT v10 Rx level with all basement lights on 
or off (0dB relative signal level both before and after lights 
illuminated).


Fluorescent light replacement (formerly electronic ballasts) converted 
to direct-wire, single-end fed LED bulbs.

*Hyperikon SKU: 841000631* (XYL requirement was soft-white, so 3000 
degrees K was selected).? 18w bulbs.

In May 2020, I installed 14 bulbs (seven dual light fixtures) removing 
the old ballasts and fluorescent tube lights.?? I trimmed all unused 
wires to minimum physical length and removed excess wire from fixtures 
that had been attached to electronic ballasts.

The fixtures in which these were installed are typical tin metal legacy 
fluorescent fixtures.

Note:? Hyperikon Non-Shunted Tombstones (end mounts) were replaced on 
only the energized end of each installed LED bulb. The opposite 
(non-energized) end retained the original tombstone with wires trimmed 
off as short as possible.


There is no change in my WSJT v10 (nor WSJT-X) signal level with lights 
all on or off.??? When Rx level is set to 0dB, it holds at this level.

Test Antenna is 1 x LFA-HZE-10 (2-inch homebrew round boom design) up 88 
feet Above Ground Level with HA8ET 50MHz LNA fed into SSB Electronic 
LT6S transverter (1dB NF) then to JRC JST-245DX 28Mhz transceiver.


Today I received good news that another ham (Frank W3LPL) also installed 
Hyperikon LED bulbs at his QTH and he also reported 6m RFI-quiet.

I hope this data is useful.?? 73,

Dave KJ9I


The disclaimer: I have no financial nor any other connection with 
Hyperikon beyond being a satisfied customer of the above bulbs.



From brennanprice at verizon.net  Sat Jul 18 21:13:43 2020
From: brennanprice at verizon.net (Brennan Price)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 21:13:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT 2020 BoD Ballot Arrived : ??
References: <1054072108.3154286.1595106823341.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1054072108.3154286.1595106823341@mail.yahoo.com>

I do want to address both Greg's observation and Bruce's, in turn.
1) An interior envelope is admittedly commonly used in mail-in balloting. It also incrementally increases the cost and complexity of the mailing, and has been abandoned by other organizations in lieu of other measures to maintain secrecy as a result (I actually modeled this process and ballot design--including return envelopes with preprinted addressed for verification and no interior envelope--from a recently concluded and similarly robustly conducted election for the board of the United States Chess Federation, of which I am a member).
I will cite this relevant text from my earlier advisory to this reflector:
The package is clearly labeled as election-related and contains . . . [a] No 9 return envelope, which bears the address to which ballots should be returned and the member's name and address for verification against the voter list and any replacement ballot requests.
Secrecy at the time of counting will be maintained by separating the ballot from the envelope without inspection, placing the ballot in a receptacle, and scrutinizing the ballots after all have been separated from the envelopes.
I appreciate the membership's anticipated confidence in my commitment and ability to maintain the bylaws' requirement of a secret ballot through this method.
2) It is not correct that I have been pressured in my conduct of the election. I have made decisions on a number of issues that warranted discussion both before and after the fact, and I believe I've made at least one call with which every candidate would have rather me made another by now. These discussions, even when ending in disagreement, have universally been conducted with professionalism and in the absence of the vigor that one may detect here.
73,Brennan Price, N4QXSecretary, Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation


-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2020 4:38 PM
To: Gregory Beat <w9gb at icloud.com>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT 2020 BoD Ballot Arrived : ??

Hi Gregory,

I believe that Brennan was doing his best to run a fair election, and this is an unintentional mistake. Brennan was under pressure to make things less fair, and did not.

On Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 1:11 PM Gregory Beat via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> I received the 2020 AMSAT BoD ballot via US Postal Service today.
>
> I noticed that the envelope for this ballot is addressed to the AMSAT
> Secretary, Brennan Price, at a post office box in Vienna, VA.
> The envelope has my return address pre-printed in the upper left corner.
>
> The standard mail-in ballot practice, is to NOT use an identifiable
> return address.
> A separate ballot envelope (sometimes a different, specific color) is
> provided for the member?s ballot.? This assures that the member?s
> ballot remains Secret and the envelope only Opened during the physical
> counting process.? This minimizes or eliminates Ballot Tampering.
> ==
> The 2020 mail-in ballot process is different than the 2019 election,
> when AMSAT used a third-party to assure a secret ballot for BoD election process.
> I previously worked for Ernst&Young, which handles sensitive and
> visible balloting for many high-profile organizations (expect the
> Oscars, that is PwC).
>
> I raise my hand in objection, that this 2020 mail-in balloting method
> does not assure the line of secrecy from member to the vote counting
> (tabulation) process.
>
> Greg Beat, w9gb
> AMSAT-NA life member
> ==
> ANS-188 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletins
> DATE: 2019 July 7
> To All RADIO AMATEURS
> 2019 AMSAT Board of Directors Election Update
>
> The 2019 AMSAT Board of Directors election will be conducted
> differently than in past elections. In previous years, the balloting
> process was handled by multiple vendors. This year, AMSAT has
> contracted with a single, independent party, ElectionBuddy, to conduct
> and fully manage the election process.
> Sincerely,
> Clayton L. Coleman, W5PFG
> AMSAT Secretary
>
>
> Sent from iPad Air
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via?AMSAT-BB at amsat.org.?AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect
> the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings:?https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via?AMSAT-BB at amsat.org.?AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings:?AMSAT-BB Info Page

| 
| 
|  | 
AMSAT-BB Info Page


 |

 |

 |





From wb4gcs at wb4gcs.org  Sat Jul 18 22:35:11 2020
From: wb4gcs at wb4gcs.org (Jim Sanford)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 18:35:11 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT 2020 BoD Ballot Arrived : ??
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOuZEX5BOH-5Fvrwpc2aSNHTF6=iByo2zFmCVv4uzAfc2g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <23A8990C-5775-4773-896E-0366C5DCC523@icloud.com>
	<CAK2MWOuZEX5BOH-5Fvrwpc2aSNHTF6=iByo2zFmCVv4uzAfc2g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <df9110c9-aa1e-58f7-05dc-b2b17efc9495@wb4gcs.org>

The letter that came with it explains --

ballots will be removed from the evnvelopes and placed in a receptacle.? 
Then at a different time and location, they will be counted -- anonymously.

I'm OK with this.

Jim

wb4gcs at amsat.org


On 7/18/2020 4:38 PM, Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Hi Gregory,
>
> I believe that Brennan was doing his best to run a fair election, and this
> is an unintentional mistake. Brennan was under pressure to make things less
> fair, and did not.
>
> On Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 1:11 PM Gregory Beat via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
>> I received the 2020 AMSAT BoD ballot via US Postal Service today.
>>
>> I noticed that the envelope for this ballot is addressed to the AMSAT
>> Secretary, Brennan Price, at a post office box in Vienna, VA.
>> The envelope has my return address pre-printed in the upper left corner.
>>
>> The standard mail-in ballot practice, is to NOT use an identifiable return
>> address.
>> A separate ballot envelope (sometimes a different, specific color) is
>> provided for the member?s ballot.  This assures that the member?s ballot
>> remains Secret and the envelope only Opened during the physical counting
>> process.  This minimizes or eliminates Ballot Tampering.
>> ==
>> The 2020 mail-in ballot process is different than the 2019 election, when
>> AMSAT used a third-party to assure a secret ballot for BoD election process.
>> I previously worked for Ernst&Young, which handles sensitive and visible
>> balloting for many high-profile organizations (expect the Oscars, that is
>> PwC).
>>
>> I raise my hand in objection, that this 2020 mail-in balloting method does
>> not assure the line of secrecy from member to the vote counting
>> (tabulation) process.
>>
>> Greg Beat, w9gb
>> AMSAT-NA life member
>> ==
>> ANS-188 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletins
>> DATE: 2019 July 7
>> To All RADIO AMATEURS
>> 2019 AMSAT Board of Directors Election Update
>>
>> The 2019 AMSAT Board of Directors election will be conducted differently
>> than in past elections. In previous years, the balloting process was
>> handled by multiple vendors. This year, AMSAT has contracted with a single,
>> independent party, ElectionBuddy, to conduct and fully manage the election
>> process.
>> Sincerely,
>> Clayton L. Coleman, W5PFG
>> AMSAT Secretary
>>
>>
>> Sent from iPad Air
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


From bruce at perens.com  Sat Jul 18 23:22:16 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 16:22:16 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT 2020 BoD Ballot Arrived : ??
In-Reply-To: <1054072108.3154286.1595106823341@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1054072108.3154286.1595106823341.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1054072108.3154286.1595106823341@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOv1aKPC2qfiEvdZ6rETW=_-z80E-4KNPK7oDdLS=7bweg@mail.gmail.com>

Brennan,

I am reassured. Everyone should be glad that this is in your hands.

Thanks

Bruce

On Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 14:23 Brennan Price via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> I do want to address both Greg's observation and Bruce's, in turn.
> 1) An interior envelope is admittedly commonly used in mail-in balloting.
> It also incrementally increases the cost and complexity of the mailing, and
> has been abandoned by other organizations in lieu of other measures to
> maintain secrecy as a result (I actually modeled this process and ballot
> design--including return envelopes with preprinted addressed for
> verification and no interior envelope--from a recently concluded and
> similarly robustly conducted election for the board of the United States
> Chess Federation, of which I am a member).
> I will cite this relevant text from my earlier advisory to this reflector:
> The package is clearly labeled as election-related and contains . . . [a]
> No 9 return envelope, which bears the address to which ballots should be
> returned and the member's name and address for verification against the
> voter list and any replacement ballot requests.
> Secrecy at the time of counting will be maintained by separating the
> ballot from the envelope without inspection, placing the ballot in a
> receptacle, and scrutinizing the ballots after all have been separated from
> the envelopes.
> I appreciate the membership's anticipated confidence in my commitment and
> ability to maintain the bylaws' requirement of a secret ballot through this
> method.
> 2) It is not correct that I have been pressured in my conduct of the
> election. I have made decisions on a number of issues that warranted
> discussion both before and after the fact, and I believe I've made at least
> one call with which every candidate would have rather me made another by
> now. These discussions, even when ending in disagreement, have universally
> been conducted with professionalism and in the absence of the vigor that
> one may detect here.
> 73,Brennan Price, N4QXSecretary, Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Bruce Perens via
> AMSAT-BB
> Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2020 4:38 PM
> To: Gregory Beat <w9gb at icloud.com>
> Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT 2020 BoD Ballot Arrived : ??
>
> Hi Gregory,
>
> I believe that Brennan was doing his best to run a fair election, and this
> is an unintentional mistake. Brennan was under pressure to make things less
> fair, and did not.
>
> On Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 1:11 PM Gregory Beat via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
> > I received the 2020 AMSAT BoD ballot via US Postal Service today.
> >
> > I noticed that the envelope for this ballot is addressed to the AMSAT
> > Secretary, Brennan Price, at a post office box in Vienna, VA.
> > The envelope has my return address pre-printed in the upper left corner.
> >
> > The standard mail-in ballot practice, is to NOT use an identifiable
> > return address.
> > A separate ballot envelope (sometimes a different, specific color) is
> > provided for the member?s ballot.  This assures that the member?s
> > ballot remains Secret and the envelope only Opened during the physical
> > counting process.  This minimizes or eliminates Ballot Tampering.
> > ==
> > The 2020 mail-in ballot process is different than the 2019 election,
> > when AMSAT used a third-party to assure a secret ballot for BoD election
> process.
> > I previously worked for Ernst&Young, which handles sensitive and
> > visible balloting for many high-profile organizations (expect the
> > Oscars, that is PwC).
> >
> > I raise my hand in objection, that this 2020 mail-in balloting method
> > does not assure the line of secrecy from member to the vote counting
> > (tabulation) process.
> >
> > Greg Beat, w9gb
> > AMSAT-NA life member
> > ==
> > ANS-188 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletins
> > DATE: 2019 July 7
> > To All RADIO AMATEURS
> > 2019 AMSAT Board of Directors Election Update
> >
> > The 2019 AMSAT Board of Directors election will be conducted
> > differently than in past elections. In previous years, the balloting
> > process was handled by multiple vendors. This year, AMSAT has
> > contracted with a single, independent party, ElectionBuddy, to conduct
> > and fully manage the election process.
> > Sincerely,
> > Clayton L. Coleman, W5PFG
> > AMSAT Secretary
> >
> >
> > Sent from iPad Air
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect
> > the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to
> all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: AMSAT-BB Info Page
>
> |
> |
> |  |
> AMSAT-BB Info Page
>
>
>  |
>
>  |
>
>  |
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From murtonminer at gmail.com  Sat Jul 18 23:37:57 2020
From: murtonminer at gmail.com (Oscar Acton)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 00:37:57 +0100
Subject: [amsat-bb] Amsat - SOTA
Message-ID: <CABY8qs+p_2UMi-jbRcX9N+kOr6j=9nPZr3SqrgsKDpVXHhX2hg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I am new to satellite operations. I tried to access Lilacsat2 from a SOTA
summit today and failed. I did manage to call into AO-92 yesterday and I
was heard by four stations (but I couldn't receive the downlink).

I was using a 2m dipole to transmit (I am fairly confident I was getting
into the satellite today) and a 2 element 70cm yagi. Now, I think two
things went wrong. Firstly, I had no way of directing the antenna
accurately (I had to guess on the angle and azimuth), and secondly, the
antenna isn't very powerful, is small and isn't tuned brilliantly (it's a
70cm yagi but I get SWR of 2.2 on 70cm).

Firstly, I'm wondering how precise you need to be in directing the beam?
Can I just hold it in the vague direction that the satellite is approaching
from, or do I need to work out the headings?

Secondly, I am wondering if my equipment is likely to cut it. As I said,
yesterday I was told that my signal was getting in - quiet but fully
readable using my Diamond x30. I don't want to transmit if I can't receive
in case I talk over someone or cause some interference. I won't be able to
buy an arrow or a powerful beam antenna for around a year, but I am really
desperate to work the satellites. Wondering if there are any ways that I
can use my current equipment in order to work it (whether that be from my
Home QTH or from a SOTA summit).

I have:
Yaesu FT-2980 (2m only, limited to 10 watts)
Anytone 868 (8 watts max)
Baofeng GT-3TP (8 watts max)
2 ele 70cm yagi
2m dipole
diamond x50 collinear at the Home QTH

Hoping for some advice.. I would love to hear stories of you working
satellites during a Summits On The Air activation, and I would be
interested to hear of your station setup (and whether you have had success
with a minimal setup like mine).

Best Regards,

Oscar M7OJA (IO94HT)

From dmitry.mizin at gmail.com  Sun Jul 19 00:02:19 2020
From: dmitry.mizin at gmail.com (Dmitry Mizin)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:02:19 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Amsat - SOTA
In-Reply-To: <CABY8qs+p_2UMi-jbRcX9N+kOr6j=9nPZr3SqrgsKDpVXHhX2hg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABY8qs+p_2UMi-jbRcX9N+kOr6j=9nPZr3SqrgsKDpVXHhX2hg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF=oU+jofE_B7vDLVagBWNJ3hvE0MOrgrMy-j8umAEk7Ed8_Ow@mail.gmail.com>

HI Oscar,

It is really great to hear of someone trying to work satellites from SOTA.
Myself, and quite a few others have done it successfully, and plan to do
again. But I believe, all of those who succeeded were using either Arrow or
Elk - which both are directional antennas. Since doing SOTA we can only
take as much as our back will hold, most would be using a couple of HT's,
or Kenwood D-72. And with 5 watts - you do need to be spot on with the
bird. Anything that is not a directional antenna - you will be wasting a
lot of RF and will have a hard time time making into the satellite. Not
impossible, as there are a few people who have been successful with just a
couple of HT's and rubber ducky antennas, but those passes will need to be
high above you and you will be lucky to make a few contacts. I have done it
once, and it was not pretty. But a few here have done it on quite a few
occasions.

When I take my Arrow antenna to the summit - it adds a few pounds, but not
much space. My usual antenna is vertical for HF. I just roll Arrow into the
same pouch bag. So, it is about managing the weight of your backpack.

Just my 2 cents here. Feel free to contact me directly if you have any
other questions.

Dmitry N6DNM

On Sat, Jul 18, 2020 at 4:39 PM Oscar Acton via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am new to satellite operations. I tried to access Lilacsat2 from a SOTA
> summit today and failed. I did manage to call into AO-92 yesterday and I
> was heard by four stations (but I couldn't receive the downlink).
>
> I was using a 2m dipole to transmit (I am fairly confident I was getting
> into the satellite today) and a 2 element 70cm yagi. Now, I think two
> things went wrong. Firstly, I had no way of directing the antenna
> accurately (I had to guess on the angle and azimuth), and secondly, the
> antenna isn't very powerful, is small and isn't tuned brilliantly (it's a
> 70cm yagi but I get SWR of 2.2 on 70cm).
>
> Firstly, I'm wondering how precise you need to be in directing the beam?
> Can I just hold it in the vague direction that the satellite is approaching
> from, or do I need to work out the headings?
>
> Secondly, I am wondering if my equipment is likely to cut it. As I said,
> yesterday I was told that my signal was getting in - quiet but fully
> readable using my Diamond x30. I don't want to transmit if I can't receive
> in case I talk over someone or cause some interference. I won't be able to
> buy an arrow or a powerful beam antenna for around a year, but I am really
> desperate to work the satellites. Wondering if there are any ways that I
> can use my current equipment in order to work it (whether that be from my
> Home QTH or from a SOTA summit).
>
> I have:
> Yaesu FT-2980 (2m only, limited to 10 watts)
> Anytone 868 (8 watts max)
> Baofeng GT-3TP (8 watts max)
> 2 ele 70cm yagi
> 2m dipole
> diamond x50 collinear at the Home QTH
>
> Hoping for some advice.. I would love to hear stories of you working
> satellites during a Summits On The Air activation, and I would be
> interested to hear of your station setup (and whether you have had success
> with a minimal setup like mine).
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Oscar M7OJA (IO94HT)
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From n1uw at gokarns.com  Sun Jul 19 00:04:14 2020
From: n1uw at gokarns.com (Frank Karnauskas)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 19:04:14 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] ANS-201 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletin
Message-ID: <000a01d65d60$23bf9510$6b3ebf30$@gokarns.com>

AMSAT NEWS SERVICE
ANS-201


The AMSAT News Service bulletins are a free, weekly news and 
information service of AMSAT North America, The Radio
Amateur Satellite Corporation.  ANS publishes news related to Amateur
Radio in space including reports on the activities of a worldwide
group of Amateur Radio operators who share an active interest in 
designing, building, launching and communicating through analog and
digital Amateur Radio satellites.

The news feed on http://amsat.org publishes news of Amateur Radio 
in space as soon as our volunteers can post it.

Please send any amateur satellite news or reports to:
ans-editor at amsat dot org.


In this edition:

* AMSAT Board of Directors Election Packages Mailed July 14 
* HO-107 is Back!
* First Call for Papers - Virtual 2020 AMSAT Annual Meeting and 
  Space Symposium
* New D-STAR Reflector for AMSAT Use
* SpaceX to Launch AMSAT-EA EASAT-2 and Hades Satellites 
* DARC Finds Unauthorized Transmissions in 144 MHz Satellite Band 
* 1240-1300 MHz Discussed at CEPT SE-40 Meeting 
* IARU Coordinates Two New Satellites 
* Upcoming Satellite Operations 
* Hamfests, Conventions, Maker Faires, and Other Events 
* ARISS News 
* Satellite Shorts from All Over 


SB SAT @ AMSAT $ANS-201.01
ANS-201 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletins

AMSAT News Service Bulletin 201.01
>From AMSAT HQ KENSINGTON, MD.
July 19, 2020
To All RADIO AMATEURS
BID: $ANS-202.01


AMSAT Board of Directors Election Packages Mailed July 14

Brennan Price, N4QX, AMSAT Secretary reports that the ballots, 
candidate statements, and return envelopes for the 2020 AMSAT Board 
of Directors Election were prepared by Paladin Commercial Printing of 
Newington, Connecticut. Paladin mailed the packages from Hartford, 
Connecticut, on Tuesday, July 14, to members of record on July 1. 

Non-US addresses were sent first class (the only option for 
overseas). US addresses were sent pre-sorted standard, which is 
routine for mail that requires a two-way response time measured in 
weeks, as this does. 

Allowing for postal delivery standards and guard time, the Secretary 
will not consider a ballot as lost in post any earlier than August 12 
(four weeks after the mailing). This timing permits a replacement 
ballot to be mailed first class in both directions, even 
internationally, with time to spare under prevailing postal delivery 
standards.

Paladin has shipped materials for 100 blank election packages to
Price. 
Price will use these materials to assemble and mail replacement or 
substitute packages as necessary. These requests and packages will be 
tracked and accounted against the voter list and returned ballots to 
guard against duplicates, and will be identifiable against the package

mailed by Paladin for further verification and accounting by the 
tellers. Members desiring a replacement ballot package should contact 
Price no earlier than August 12.

The package is clearly labeled as election-related and contains:

1) An instruction and ballot sheet, with the ballot perforated,
2) A sheet of candidate statements, and
3) A No 9 return envelope, which bears the address to which ballots 
   should be returned and the member's name and address for 
   verification against the voter list and any replacement ballot 
   requests.

Secrecy at the time of counting will be maintained by separating the 
ballot from the envelope without inspection, placing the ballot in a 
receptacle, and scrutinizing the ballots after all have been 
separated from the envelopes. 

Ballots should be returned in the return envelopes provided to arrive 
at the designated Post Office Box in Vienna, Virginia, by 5 p.m. 
Thursday, September 15, 2020. Separation of the ballots from the 
envelopes and counting will occur as soon thereafter as practicable, 
and no later than September 30. 

Brennan can be reached at brennanprice at verizon.net for a query about 
membership status at any time or a replacement ballot after 
August 12. 

[ANS thanks Brennan Price, N4QX, AMSAT Secretary for the above 
information.]

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         Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, the AMSAT office
    is closed until further notice. For details, please visit
  https://www.amsat.org/amsat-office-closed-until-further-notice/

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

HO-107 is Back!

On the evening of July 17, 2020, Vlad Chorney, EU1SAT, tweeted 
"Husky-1 ACTIVE!" with a screenshot from FoxTelem showing that he had 
received telemetry from HO-107 (HuskySat-1) which had been silent for 
nearly two months. About an hour after EU1SAT's tweet, the satellite 
passed over the eastern United States and AMSAT command stations 
KO4MA and N8MH copied telemetry. On subsequent passes, the satellite 
was successfully commanded.

Please continue to copy telemetry in FoxTelem. If you have removed 
HO-107 from your tracked satellites during its period of inactivity, 
please add it back. The transponder remains disabled while AMSAT 
Operations evaluates the telemetry from the satellite. 

[ANS thanks AMSAT Operations for the above information]

--------------------------------------------------------------------

First Call for Papers - Virtual 2020 AMSAT Annual Meeting and 
Space Symposium

This is the first call for papers for the Virtual 2020 AMSAT Annual 
Meeting and Space Symposium to be held on October 17, 2020. Proposals 
for papers and symposium presentations are invited on any topic of 
interest to the amateur satellite community. Further details 
regarding the virtual event will be announced shortly. We request a 
tentative title of your presentation as soon as possible, with the 
final copy to be submitted by October 5, 2020 for inclusion in the 
Symposium Proceedings. Abstracts and papers should be sent to 
Dan Schultz at n8fgv(at)amsat.org

[ANS thanks Dan Schultz, N8FGV, for the above information]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

AMSAT's GOLF Program is about getting back to higher orbits, and it
all begins with GOLF-TEE - a technology demonstrator for deployable
solar panels, propulsion, and attitude control. Come along for the
ride. The journey will be worth it!

                  https://tinyurl.com/ANS-GOLF

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+


New D-STAR Reflector for AMSAT Use

It has been nearly two years since Walter Holmes, K5WH and friends 
created the AMSAT DMR Talkgroup 98006 and has been working with great 
success. About one year ago they created a YSF US AMSAT Reflector 
11689 to pull in others using Yaesu System Fusion digital radios. As 
these were working so well, they decided to bridge the two systems 
together so it would longer matter which of these digital 
technologies users had. Users could cross communicate between all 
users of both systems. 

After success with the DMR talkgroup and the YSF reflector for more 
than a year, there was plenty of interest in adding D-STAR capability 
to the same system.

Walter is happy to announce the creation of a new D-STAR reflector 
for that purpose.  It supports four different reflector names such as 
XLXSAT, XRFSAT, DCSSAT, and REFSAT that are all linked together so 
that all of these work the same. As most people that are familiar 
with D-STAR reflectors know, they usually have numbers for the 
reflectors, but it seemed more appropriate to switch from the number 
system to the Alpha name like SAT to make it easier to find in the 
list.

For those using hotspots, they will need to refresh or update their 
Pistar or BlueDV host files to see these entries before they will see 
this one in the pull-down list.

Walter adds, "We recommend that users use module C for the AMSAT 
conversations but several other modules are available if we find a 
need to stretch out a bit. But, the C module is the one also linked 
to a few other repeaters.

"The D-STAR SAT reflector is not currently bridged into the system as 
are the DMR and YSF reflectors, but we hope to have that linked in 
very soon after a little more testing.

"If you have D-STAR capability, we invite you to give it a try and 
see how  it works for you."

[ANS thanks Walter Holmes, K5WH for the above information]

--------------------------------------------------------------------

SpaceX to Launch AMSAT-EA EASAT-2 and Hades Satellites

Spain's national amateur radio society URE says SpaceX expect to 
launch the EASAT-2 and Hades satellites in December 2020.

AMSAT-EA, the URE satellite group, is building the satellites 
together with the European University of Madrid. The launch has been 
managed through the space broker Alba Orbital based in Glasgow. 

EASAT-2 and Hades will be launched into a sun-synchronous orbit 
between 500 km and 600 km and their main function is to act as analog 
and digital repeaters for radio amateurs. There is also a camera for 
SSTV transmissions provided by the Czech Republic that has already 
flown on the United States Marine Academy PSAT-2 satellite, and has 
now been adapted to fit into the PocketQube satellites. 

Both satellites are based on the PocketQube 1.5P (7.5 x 5 x 5 cm) 
architecture and represent an evolution of the previous GENESIS 
platform, whose GENESIS-L and GENESIS-N satellites are expected to 
fly before the end of the year with Firefly, in a joint collaboration 
with Fossa Systems and LibreSpace, which also launch their own 
satellites, all of them within the Picobus dispenser, developed by 
the latter. 

IARU has coordinated these frequencies:
- Hades - uplink 145.925 MHz, downlink 436.888 MHz 
- EASAT-2 - uplink 145.875 MHz, downlink 436.666 MHz

[ANS thanks AMSAT-UK for the above information.]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

    Need new satellite antennas? Purchase Arrows, Alaskan Arrows,
   and M2 LEO-Packs from the AMSAT Store. When you purchase through
          AMSAT, a portion of the proceeds goes towards
                 Keeping Amateur Radio in Space.
           https://amsat.org/product-category/hardware/

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

DARC Finds Unauthorized Transmissions in 144 MHz Satellite Band 

The DARC reports unauthorized transmissions are taking place in the 
144 MHz satellite segment of the 2M amateur radio primary allocation. 

A translation of the DARC post reads:

"In the 144.010 MHz to 144.020 MHz range, illegally operated 
transmitters are increasingly being operated as "water vitalizers" 
or "water energizers". The manufacturer specifies 144.015 MHz as the 
transmission frequency in its product description.

"The DARC EMC department asks for further information with location 
information about conspicuous signals in this frequency range, in 
preparation for collective complaints.

"The devices apparently generate fields with considerable field 
strength and a long range. The signals appear increasingly in the 
morning or in the evening. The illegal transmitters are typically in 
operation for 5 to 60 minutes (integer multiples of 5 minutes). The 
signal is generally very stable in frequency, but occasionally shows 
short-term fluctuations of up to a few 100 Hz. Otherwise the carrier 
is not further modulated.

The frequency range 144.000 MHz to 146.000 MHz is assigned to the 
Amateur Radio service in Germany as the primary exclusive user."

A video of the interference caused by these devices and a map showing 
some of the cases so far detected in Germany can be seen at 
https://www.darc.de/der-club/referate/emv/

[ANS thanks AMSAT-UK for the above information.]

--------------------------------------------------------------------

1240-1300 MHz Discussed at CEPT SE-40 Meeting

The 69th meeting of CEPT ECC Working Group SE-40, held June 23-25, 
discussed the Amateur Radio 1240-1300 MHz band, the meeting documents 
are now available.

Several contributions were received for the ECC Report dealing with 
the coexistence between the radionavigation-satellite service and the 
amateur service in the frequency band 1240 - 1300 MHz. The 
contributions were incorporated in the draft ECC Report. The CPG 
arrangements for the preparation of WRC-23 for AI 9.1 topic b) was 
noted.

The Russian Federation noted:
- 1240-1260 MHz is by the GLONASS system
- 1260-1300 MHz are used by EU's Galileo, Beijing's Beidou, Japan's 
  QZSS and is planned to be used by Korea's KPS.

Among the documents available in Input, Info and Minutes are:
- SE40(20)052 Amateur Repeaters - IARU-R1
- SE40(20)051 Section 2 update WI_39 - IARU-R1
- SE40(20)050 Annex Draft report RNSS Amateur - Russian Federation
- SE40(20)049 Suggestions for RNSS and Amateur Service Compatibility, 
  Russian Federation
- Info 1 Amateur repeaters 23 cm - IARU-R1
- Info 3 Letter to SE40 chairman on updated of ITU-R M.1092 - 
  European Commission
- Minutes
- SE40(20)56A3 (1) Draft Report Amateur vs RNSS

Download the meeting documents from https://tinyurl.com/ANS-201-CEPT.

[ANS thanks AMSAT-UK for the above information.]

--------------------------------------------------------------------

IARU Coordinates Two New Satellites

- HIAPO
HIAPO is a 1U CubeSat mission that is a unique platform being 
used to provide engaging meaningful hands-on STEM curriculum for 
Hawaii students K-12. Part of this curriculum involves obtaining data 
about solar flares solar particle events and the disturbances of the 
Earth's magnetic field. The students can also collect data on solar 
events with relation to the propagation of radio waves reflected or 
refracted back towards the Earth from the ionosphere. During the 
lifespan of this mission that data will be available for amateur 
operators to download directly from the satellite. 

The Hawaii Science & Technology Museum was awarded a no-cost flight 
of the launch and a limited resources will not allow the development 
of an Amateur Radio digipeater. However if the launch date slips they 
plan to work with resources at AMSAT to develop a digipeater. 
Proposing a UHF downlink using 9k6 FSK with AX25. Planning a Firefly 
launch from Vandenberg in July 2020 into a 300 km orbit with 137 
degree inclination together with Serenity and Spinnaker 3. A downlink 
on 437.225 MHz has been coordinated.

- VZLUSAT-2
VZLUSAT-2 is 3U CubeSat project of the University of West Bohemia in 
Pilsen and Czech Aerospace Research Centre. Students from four Czech 
technical universities are involved along with members of an Amateur 
Radio community from The Czech Republic. 

The primary payload is the experimental Earth observation camera with 
an expected resolution around 30 to 50 m GSD. Secondary payloads of 
the mission are Radiation Orbital Monitor, Gama Ray Burst detector, 
X-ray detector and other sensors. This mission is fully open to Radio 
Amateurs who were also involved in the development of the satellite. 

The space segment uses two Amateur bands for communication: An S-band 
for payload data downlink (DVBS2 ETSI EN 302 307 standard, 2 MBd, 
QPSK), and UHF downlink beacon (GMSK 1200 Bd), telecommand uplink (
GMSK, 1200 Bd - 9600 Bd) and telemetry downlink (GMSK 4800, 9600 Bd). 
All the information is in an open format and everything needed for 
decoding is or will be published at: 
https://www.pilsencube.zcu.cz/vzlusat2/transmission.pdf. 

Planning a launch from Cape Canaveral in the time window from 
December 2020 to March 2021 into SSO 500-600 km. A downlink on 
437.325 MHz has been coordinated.

[ANS thanks the IARU for the above information.]

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   AMSAT, along with our ARISS partners, is developing an amateur
   radio package, including two-way communication capability, to
           be carried on-board Gateway in lunar orbit.

   Support AMSAT's projects today at https://www.amsat.org/donate/

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

Upcoming Satellite Operations

Quick Hits:

- Need Hawaii? On AO-7 Most days. NH7WN for a schedule.

- EN85, 86 and maybe 75 and 76, July 11-25. @AA8CH for a schedule.

- FN44/54, 7/22 - 7/31, KQ2RP: Just like last time, FM only.

- FN11+21 then 12+22 grid lines, 7/25, @NS3L Steve is heading out to 
  these lines. Schedule to come.

- EN20/30 Line, July 28-31, @KX9X Sean is moving quickly towards 
  his VUCC/R award by heading out again for two more grids. Watch his 
  Twitter for details.

- DM97/98 & EM08/09: Super Rover @AD0DX is heading out for the Kansas 
  QSO party and N0E. More to come.

Major Roves:

- @WY7AA is heading out again!
  Mon 7/20 DN67/68. All SSB and FM passes from about 1600-0400.
  Tue 7/21 DN57/58. All SSB and FM passes from about 1600-0400.
  Wed 7/22 Travel day no sats.
  Thu 7/23 DN55/56. All SSB and FM passes from about 1600-0400.
  Fri 7/24 DN65/66. All SSB and FM passes from about 1600-0400.
  Watch his QRZ page for details and updates.

[ANS thanks Robert Bankston, KE4AL for the above information.]

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Hamfests, Conventions, Maker Faires, and Other Events

No events posted.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

ARISS News

No pending school operations.

[ANS thanks Charlie Sufana, AJ9N  for the above information.]

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Shorts from All Over

- Sean Kutzko, KX9X To Present "Working Satellites" at DXE Virtual 
  Hamfest and DX Academy July 25, 2020

Join Sean on Saturday, July 25, 2020 at 10:15 EDT for his thirty-
minute presentation on Amateur Radio satellites.  Sean's presentation 
is part of the DX Engineering Virtual Hamfest and DX Academy. The 
event is free and open to all. Register at 
https://tinyurl.com/ANS-201-Sean

- Behind Scenes SpaceX Crew Dragon Mission You Haven't Seen

NASA has just released a new video. It starts with "You saw history 
made with the first crewed launch and docking of the SpaceX Crew 
Dragon, but you didn't see the flurry of activity on board the 
International Space Station...until now.

"Join Expedition 63 Commander Chris Cassidy and his crew mates as 
they prepare their cameras to document the DM-2 launch, and look over 
their shoulders to witness the new American spacecraft dock to the 
station and deliver their new crew mates."

Watch the twelve minute video at https://tinyurl.com/ANS-201-Dragon.

[ANS thanks http://spaceref.com for the above information.]


--------------------------------------------------------------------

In addition to regular membership, AMSAT offers membership in the 
President's Club. Members of the President's Club, as sustaining
donors to AMSAT Project Funds, will be eligible to receive 
additional benefits. Application forms are available from the 
AMSAT office.

Primary and secondary school students are eligible for membership at
one-half the standard yearly rate. Post-secondary school students
enrolled in at least half time status shall be eligible for the 
student rate for a maximum of six post-secondary years in this 
status.

Contact Martha at the AMSAT office for additional student 
membership information.

73,
This week's ANS Editor,
Frank Karnauskas, N1UW
n1uw at amsat dot org

Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum 
available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring 
membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author 
and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.

Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite 
program!

Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb





From sjdevience at gmail.com  Sun Jul 19 00:46:51 2020
From: sjdevience at gmail.com (Stephen DeVience)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 19:46:51 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb]  Amsat - SOTA
Message-ID: <CAMPfQQB30Of4Tt5zE3Cv5godD=37=HfJEnAtK-XymnC1SRS_uQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Oscar,

Lilacsat-2 has not been on the last few days, so it's not a problem on your
end. Its schedule is irregular, and it's usually on for 3-4 days then off
for a few.

If you don't want to buy an Arrow, there are a number of designs online for
crossed or dual band yagis you can make yourself. They won't be as
convenient for SOTA, but work great at home. I've had success using PVC and
copper tubing and I've also seen nice ones made with light wood and stiff
wire.

-Stephen, N8URE

From rwmcgwier at gmail.com  Sun Jul 19 01:25:10 2020
From: rwmcgwier at gmail.com (Robert McGwier)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 20:25:10 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT board election controversy
Message-ID: <CA+K5gzeGmRPCmc2QPoODeCDJsp-0maf2xTLx0T-PT-tmN_WLKw@mail.gmail.com>

My statement on the board election:

https://n4hy.blogspot.com/2020/07/amsat-bod-election-controversy.html

-- 
Bob McGwier
Founder, Federated Wireless, Inc
Founder and Technical Advisor, HawkEye 360, Inc
Adjunct Professor Virginia Tech
Former Chief Scientist:  The Ted and Karyn Hume Center for National
Security and Technology
Senior Member IEEE, Facebook: N4HYBob, ARS: N4HY

From clintbradford at mac.com  Sun Jul 19 02:11:49 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 19:11:49 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] What?
Message-ID: <252C1F3A-2964-4149-875E-314F03AA25AD@mac.com>

MICHAEL>m.. ome people who do volunteer or charity work for an organization or make 
contributions do so anonymously and without much fanfare ?

What? People are griping about AMSAT Board devisions made secretly ?

How many ways do toy want it?

Someone running for a board decision whose resume includes NO volunteer with for AMSAT?

Go ahead. Promote mediocrity from someone who wrote - 

"I make no bones that I feel that the majority of the [AMSAT-NA] BOD are doing a true 
disservice to AMSAT. That's why we have elections ... I was elated with the outcome of
 the last election. It went just as planned :) I was happy to draw votes away from other 
incumbents during the last election.?

?Blind Faith?  was an English music  supergroup featuring Clapton, Winwood, Ginger Baker and Greecg. 

To you, ?Blind Faith?  is  the support of someone who has performed NO service to AMSAT-NA.

Clint Bradford K6LCS






  

From framirezferrer at gmail.com  Sun Jul 19 02:20:10 2020
From: framirezferrer at gmail.com (Fernando Ramirez)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 19:20:10 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT board election controversy
In-Reply-To: <CA+K5gzeGmRPCmc2QPoODeCDJsp-0maf2xTLx0T-PT-tmN_WLKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+K5gzeGmRPCmc2QPoODeCDJsp-0maf2xTLx0T-PT-tmN_WLKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGHXx8hPsN9OzPOXA6YPYL2phicnWdELZq7K+nuEVG0A9PgMxQ@mail.gmail.com>

Bob,

Thanks for the letting us know your thoughts, although we all know of
Brennan's good moral character, reputation and fairness. I'm sure the whole
GM and all candidates running for office feel the same way.

73
Fernando KF7R

On Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:41 PM Robert McGwier via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> My statement on the board election:
>
> https://n4hy.blogspot.com/2020/07/amsat-bod-election-controversy.html
>
> --
> Bob McGwier
> Founder, Federated Wireless, Inc
> Founder and Technical Advisor, HawkEye 360, Inc
> Adjunct Professor Virginia Tech
> Former Chief Scientist:  The Ted and Karyn Hume Center for National
> Security and Technology
> Senior Member IEEE, Facebook: N4HYBob, ARS: N4HY
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From clintbradford at mac.com  Sun Jul 19 02:21:48 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 19:21:48 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT board election controversy
Message-ID: <0AB847AC-01B7-4748-8DD2-394EF0543B64@mac.com>

Thank you, Bob, for your honest statement.

Clint Bradford K6LCS

From ciemon at gmail.com  Sun Jul 19 08:34:20 2020
From: ciemon at gmail.com (Ciemon Dunville)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 09:34:20 +0100
Subject: [amsat-bb] Amsat - SOTA
In-Reply-To: <CABY8qs+p_2UMi-jbRcX9N+kOr6j=9nPZr3SqrgsKDpVXHhX2hg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABY8qs+p_2UMi-jbRcX9N+kOr6j=9nPZr3SqrgsKDpVXHhX2hg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVD89m0MB0WYzkMH5jmtxkwrYbL_0-73_Pgt2AXaFKtYQyKFQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Oscar,

As Dmitry has said you really do need to direct all of your power at the
satellite, and there are some good homemade options out there which won't
cost a fortune to make. Coupled with that directional antenna you certainly
need to know exactly where the satellite is, and my preferred app is
ISS-Detector Pro which only costs a few pounds but will give you all the
information you need. Add a small magnetic compass to your kit and you'll
know exactly where the sats are.

AO-91 and 92 can be incredibly frustrating over Europe, they're seen as
starter sats and consequently you tend to find far too many people having a
go with poor ground stations (high power and vertical antennas) calling all
over the place and frequently not being able to hear themselves on the
downlink. The best way to use those sats for getting some confidence is to
use the lower passes that sit out over the Atlantic.

PO-101 is a good option, although you'll need to check on their schedule
which they post daily on twitter via the @Diwata2PH account.

Good luck,

73
Ciemon
G0TRT

On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 at 00:40, Oscar Acton via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am new to satellite operations. I tried to access Lilacsat2 from a SOTA
> summit today and failed. I did manage to call into AO-92 yesterday and I
> was heard by four stations (but I couldn't receive the downlink).
>
> I was using a 2m dipole to transmit (I am fairly confident I was getting
> into the satellite today) and a 2 element 70cm yagi. Now, I think two
> things went wrong. Firstly, I had no way of directing the antenna
> accurately (I had to guess on the angle and azimuth), and secondly, the
> antenna isn't very powerful, is small and isn't tuned brilliantly (it's a
> 70cm yagi but I get SWR of 2.2 on 70cm).
>
> Firstly, I'm wondering how precise you need to be in directing the beam?
> Can I just hold it in the vague direction that the satellite is approaching
> from, or do I need to work out the headings?
>
> Secondly, I am wondering if my equipment is likely to cut it. As I said,
> yesterday I was told that my signal was getting in - quiet but fully
> readable using my Diamond x30. I don't want to transmit if I can't receive
> in case I talk over someone or cause some interference. I won't be able to
> buy an arrow or a powerful beam antenna for around a year, but I am really
> desperate to work the satellites. Wondering if there are any ways that I
> can use my current equipment in order to work it (whether that be from my
> Home QTH or from a SOTA summit).
>
> I have:
> Yaesu FT-2980 (2m only, limited to 10 watts)
> Anytone 868 (8 watts max)
> Baofeng GT-3TP (8 watts max)
> 2 ele 70cm yagi
> 2m dipole
> diamond x50 collinear at the Home QTH
>
> Hoping for some advice.. I would love to hear stories of you working
> satellites during a Summits On The Air activation, and I would be
> interested to hear of your station setup (and whether you have had success
> with a minimal setup like mine).
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Oscar M7OJA (IO94HT)
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From karn at ka9q.net  Sun Jul 19 11:53:33 2020
From: karn at ka9q.net (Phil Karn)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 04:53:33 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT: RFI from LED bulbs?
In-Reply-To: <CAOsf+NQdVS5Jhs11h0yH+UULe1JWH7jUr8nfUQpHtB1BNS8K_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3b3ce66875784df2e7e28814e51f3d97@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOsf+NQdVS5Jhs11h0yH+UULe1JWH7jUr8nfUQpHtB1BNS8K_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d73bcf18-9cc1-c266-4d5d-72dfc8b77da2@ka9q.net>


On 10/22/18 7:49 AM, Paul Andrews wrote:
>
> I have at least 100 RFI generating LED lights in a box in my basement.
> I removed these from my home and my neighbors.  I have exchanged bad
> LED lights for good LED lights.  My house is 100% incandescent and
> fluorescent.  No LEDs as long as I'm operating EME on 144 and 432 MHz.
>   LED noise does not reach up into 1296 MHz.

Can you tell us the makes and models of the offending lights? Maybe show
pictures?

Our house is full of LEDs. While I have noise problems they seem to be
coming from the usual culprits -- nearby switching supplies that I'm
methodically finding and fixing or replacing. I don't seem see much
coming from the lights.

With one exception -- when my wife turned on the lights in a room that
isn't used much at the moment, I saw LF noise on my waterfall. Turns out
that fixture contains a CFL that we haven't replaced with an LED yet. So
our experience has been the opposite of yours, though I must point out
that I've been looking mainly at LF through HF these days. I haven't
done a systematic scan of VHF or UHF.

My understanding is that many LED bulbs use series strings of diodes
with the current limited by the reactance of a capacitor. This seems
like it ought to be quieter than the ~20 kHz AC inverter commonly used
in CFLs.

Phil



From bruninga at usna.edu  Sun Jul 19 13:43:42 2020
From: bruninga at usna.edu (Robert Bruninga)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 09:43:42 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT: RFI from LED bulbs?
In-Reply-To: <d73bcf18-9cc1-c266-4d5d-72dfc8b77da2@ka9q.net>
References: <3b3ce66875784df2e7e28814e51f3d97@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOsf+NQdVS5Jhs11h0yH+UULe1JWH7jUr8nfUQpHtB1BNS8K_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<d73bcf18-9cc1-c266-4d5d-72dfc8b77da2@ka9q.net>
Message-ID: <CALdCfNJfMFVxXMTzhZaU6iDAk1KNmv0qeN2NmyrgfajopSBBAA@mail.gmail.com>

My take on LED bulbs is that the conventional ones use a DC switching
supply, but the ones with the new "orange filaments" which are actually
strings of series LEDs that add up to about 90 volts and then I assume a
resistor in the base (no switching?)

I dont think one can use a capacitor reactance to drop voltage reliably
(without additional safety limiting devices) because the drop at 60 Hz
might be fine, but the drop when a 1ms high joule transient comes along,
the energy goes right through the capacitor and dumps all that transient
into the LEDs with no protection...Just my theory, I have not proved it in
practice.  I do remember reports in the 60's when people were building
their first LED clocks and using a small capacitor to sync to the 60 Hz
line.  That sooner or later, a high-rise transient would wipe out the clock?

just theorizing...

> My understanding is that many LED bulbs use series strings of diodes
> > with the current limited by the reactance of a capacitor. This seems
> > like it ought to be quieter than the ~20 kHz AC inverter commonly used
> > in CFLs.
>
>

From mat_62 at charter.net  Sun Jul 19 01:28:33 2020
From: mat_62 at charter.net (Michael Tondee)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 21:28:33 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Amsat - SOTA
Message-ID: <c0e617e8-c6db-5397-1556-31cb1a33d9c9@charter.net>

Might I suggest you look up the WA5VJB "Cheap Yagi" antennas. An Arrow or an Elk is certainly a nice solution but there are other ways. I built my base station antennas based on these designs and many have built handheld antennas like them as well.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 00:37:57 +0100
From: Oscar Acton<murtonminer at gmail.com>
To:amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Amsat - SOTA
Message-ID:
	<CABY8qs+p_2UMi-jbRcX9N+kOr6j=9nPZr3SqrgsKDpVXHhX2hg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hello,

I am new to satellite operations. I tried to access Lilacsat2 from a SOTA
summit today and failed. I did manage to call into AO-92 yesterday and I
was heard by four stations (but I couldn't receive the downlink).

I was using a 2m dipole to transmit (I am fairly confident I was getting
into the satellite today) and a 2 element 70cm yagi. Now, I think two
things went wrong. Firstly, I had no way of directing the antenna
accurately (I had to guess on the angle and azimuth), and secondly, the
antenna isn't very powerful, is small and isn't tuned brilliantly (it's a
70cm yagi but I get SWR of 2.2 on 70cm).

Firstly, I'm wondering how precise you need to be in directing the beam?
Can I just hold it in the vague direction that the satellite is approaching
from, or do I need to work out the headings?

Secondly, I am wondering if my equipment is likely to cut it. As I said,
yesterday I was told that my signal was getting in - quiet but fully
readable using my Diamond x30. I don't want to transmit if I can't receive
in case I talk over someone or cause some interference. I won't be able to
buy an arrow or a powerful beam antenna for around a year, but I am really
desperate to work the satellites. Wondering if there are any ways that I
can use my current equipment in order to work it (whether that be from my
Home QTH or from a SOTA summit).

I have:
Yaesu FT-2980 (2m only, limited to 10 watts)
Anytone 868 (8 watts max)
Baofeng GT-3TP (8 watts max)
2 ele 70cm yagi
2m dipole
diamond x50 collinear at the Home QTH

Hoping for some advice.. I would love to hear stories of you working
satellites during a Summits On The Air activation, and I would be
interested to hear of your station setup (and whether you have had success
with a minimal setup like mine).

Best Regards,

Oscar M7OJA (IO94HT)


From robert.machale at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 19 17:43:59 2020
From: robert.machale at yahoo.com (Robert MacHale)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 17:43:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Election Thoughts
References: <611280701.3937982.1595180639974.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <611280701.3937982.1595180639974@mail.yahoo.com>

Board Members should exhibit extreme ownership. Asserting Gender Discrimination or filing Demand Letters is a form of blame and deflection. Perhaps the new members were underprepared.
Board Members should spend and hour per month communicating; or more. I hope the feet draggers are replaced. Declining Board Meetings betrays the trust of the group - a dereliction of duty.
I still believe the legal expenditures were wise and necessary; the gender discrimination complaint and demand letter were neither.
I support newer - more energetic - more innovative board members.
Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration

Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!


He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Paine

From zleffke at vt.edu  Sun Jul 19 18:07:31 2020
From: zleffke at vt.edu (Leffke, Zachary)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 18:07:31 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Recommendation for project website
Message-ID: <MN2PR05MB70370205439F2BD37D45C135DF7A0@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Hi All,
I was wondering if folks had any recommendations for website services for hosting simple project pages.  I do a lot of little side projects and occasionally folks ask for more details.  I tend to keep things scattered across multiple media (lots on github), and collecting up everything in a 'useful' way isn't very efficient.  I've considered making better use of github markdown, but I'm not sure thats the best way to go for all projects, particularly if I want to post a lot of images.

Some examples of the types of 'project' sites that I like and am looking to start include the following:
https://www.w6pql.com/
http://www.w1ghz.org/
https://destevez.net/

Wordpress seems like it might be a good way to go.  For the moment I'm just looking for something simple where I can 'publish' projects a bit better than just posting code or KiCAD designs on github.  Eventually I might branch out to this new fangled social media stuff...but for the moment I just want to get the projects written up and posted.

Any and all recommendations would be welcome.  I'm not opposed to pay sites (mainly to remove annoying ads from the page) as long as the interface is relatively simple and I like the look and feel of things.

Thanks in advance,
-Zach, KJ4QLP


--

Research Associate

Aerospace & Ocean Systems Lab

Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology

Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University

Work Phone: 540-231-4174

Cell Phone: 540-808-6305


From lu9cbl at gmail.com  Sun Jul 19 18:12:22 2020
From: lu9cbl at gmail.com (lu9cbl at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 15:12:22 -0300
Subject: [amsat-bb] Recommendation for project website
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR05MB70370205439F2BD37D45C135DF7A0@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MN2PR05MB70370205439F2BD37D45C135DF7A0@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <d2f99e59-d90d-d269-079a-bf59edf64106@gmail.com>

Do you check the blog style as blogspot??? do you have it for free with 
a gmail account.

73s

Mati LU9CBL (http://lu9cbl.blogspot.com/)

El 19/7/2020 a las 15:07, Leffke, Zachary via AMSAT-BB escribi?:
> Hi All,
> I was wondering if folks had any recommendations for website services for hosting simple project pages.  I do a lot of little side projects and occasionally folks ask for more details.  I tend to keep things scattered across multiple media (lots on github), and collecting up everything in a 'useful' way isn't very efficient.  I've considered making better use of github markdown, but I'm not sure thats the best way to go for all projects, particularly if I want to post a lot of images.
>
> Some examples of the types of 'project' sites that I like and am looking to start include the following:
> https://www.w6pql.com/
> http://www.w1ghz.org/
> https://destevez.net/
>
> Wordpress seems like it might be a good way to go.  For the moment I'm just looking for something simple where I can 'publish' projects a bit better than just posting code or KiCAD designs on github.  Eventually I might branch out to this new fangled social media stuff...but for the moment I just want to get the projects written up and posted.
>
> Any and all recommendations would be welcome.  I'm not opposed to pay sites (mainly to remove annoying ads from the page) as long as the interface is relatively simple and I like the look and feel of things.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> -Zach, KJ4QLP
>
>
> --
>
> Research Associate
>
> Aerospace & Ocean Systems Lab
>
> Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
>
> Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
>
> Work Phone: 540-231-4174
>
> Cell Phone: 540-808-6305
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

-- 
El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electr?nico en busca de virus.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


From diehl.mike.a at gmail.com  Sun Jul 19 18:54:18 2020
From: diehl.mike.a at gmail.com (Mike Diehl)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 14:54:18 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Recommendation for project website
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR05MB70370205439F2BD37D45C135DF7A0@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MN2PR05MB70370205439F2BD37D45C135DF7A0@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <A83AA8FB-F19C-429F-848E-76688AE77945@gmail.com>

Zach,

What about hackaday.io? 

https://hackaday.io/

73,
Mike Diehl
W8LID/VE6LID

> On Jul 19, 2020, at 14:10, Leffke, Zachary via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?Hi All,
> I was wondering if folks had any recommendations for website services for hosting simple project pages.  I do a lot of little side projects and occasionally folks ask for more details.  I tend to keep things scattered across multiple media (lots on github), and collecting up everything in a 'useful' way isn't very efficient.  I've considered making better use of github markdown, but I'm not sure thats the best way to go for all projects, particularly if I want to post a lot of images.
> 
> Some examples of the types of 'project' sites that I like and am looking to start include the following:
> https://www.w6pql.com/
> http://www.w1ghz.org/
> https://destevez.net/
> 
> Wordpress seems like it might be a good way to go.  For the moment I'm just looking for something simple where I can 'publish' projects a bit better than just posting code or KiCAD designs on github.  Eventually I might branch out to this new fangled social media stuff...but for the moment I just want to get the projects written up and posted.
> 
> Any and all recommendations would be welcome.  I'm not opposed to pay sites (mainly to remove annoying ads from the page) as long as the interface is relatively simple and I like the look and feel of things.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> -Zach, KJ4QLP
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Research Associate
> 
> Aerospace & Ocean Systems Lab
> 
> Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
> 
> Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
> 
> Work Phone: 540-231-4174
> 
> Cell Phone: 540-808-6305
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From bruce at perens.com  Sun Jul 19 19:17:53 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 12:17:53 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Recommendation for project website
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR05MB70370205439F2BD37D45C135DF7A0@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MN2PR05MB70370205439F2BD37D45C135DF7A0@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOuprxQoaR-TBkrJxBB13GDW6D6_wT6YGtx03KXAt2tE2A@mail.gmail.com>

You can definitely go with a service and have someone else manage
everything for you. I generally choose not to.

Amazon Lightsail will give you a pretty powerful virtual Linux server with
one equivalent dedicated CPU for $3.50 per month, with a better net
connection than you are going to get elsewhere (entertainingly, in net 44).
It was fine for all sorts of web services, and I had to go up to the $20 a
month one to run a compile server because the Crystal compiler is globally
optimized and had a whole gigabyte  working set . Although not all of their
free operating system images are up-to-date, you can update them yourself,
and from Amazon local mirrors that are really fast.

Lightsail is meant to be fast to deploy, you don't have to learn all of the
Amazon cloud APIs, just treat it as a Linux server.

Wasabi will provide you a gigabyte of online storage for $6 a month, which
can be formatted as a static website.

I generally front everything with Cloudflare, which except for their
embarrassing DNS outage the other day, has worked very well. Even at the
Free level.

WordPress takes a little work to self-host, but not very much at all. I run
Devuan or Debian and they generally take care of themselves. Just run the
updates once in awhile, and back them up.

Thanks

Bruce

On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 11:09 AM Leffke, Zachary via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Hi All,
> I was wondering if folks had any recommendations for website services for
> hosting simple project pages.  I do a lot of little side projects and
> occasionally folks ask for more details.  I tend to keep things scattered
> across multiple media (lots on github), and collecting up everything in a
> 'useful' way isn't very efficient.  I've considered making better use of
> github markdown, but I'm not sure thats the best way to go for all
> projects, particularly if I want to post a lot of images.
>
> Some examples of the types of 'project' sites that I like and am looking
> to start include the following:
> https://www.w6pql.com/
> http://www.w1ghz.org/
> https://destevez.net/
>
> Wordpress seems like it might be a good way to go.  For the moment I'm
> just looking for something simple where I can 'publish' projects a bit
> better than just posting code or KiCAD designs on github.  Eventually I
> might branch out to this new fangled social media stuff...but for the
> moment I just want to get the projects written up and posted.
>
> Any and all recommendations would be welcome.  I'm not opposed to pay
> sites (mainly to remove annoying ads from the page) as long as the
> interface is relatively simple and I like the look and feel of things.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> -Zach, KJ4QLP
>
>
> --
>
> Research Associate
>
> Aerospace & Ocean Systems Lab
>
> Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
>
> Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
>
> Work Phone: 540-231-4174
>
> Cell Phone: 540-808-6305
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From rhyolite at leikhim.com  Sun Jul 19 19:31:10 2020
From: rhyolite at leikhim.com (Joe Leikhim)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 15:31:10 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Elections HEO QO-100' Linear NB + Digital WB
Message-ID: <f0f7545a-672a-0754-4172-fc9ffac0e797@leikhim.com>

K4SAT here.

I am intrigued about QO-100 and have monitored it here in Florida by 
remote WEB SDR access. I have not been active in the years since AO-40 
failed and have been eager to see some HEO operations like I enjoyed 
from AO-10 and AO-13. Listening to QO-100 has rekindled that interest.

Last month on AMSAT-BB I posed the question about getting a GEO ride 
share with a commercial satellite, something that was considered 12 
years ago with Intelsat. Having a QO-100 type transponder here CONUS 
would grow the hobby and get folks like me active again (and 
contributing sums as I did for AO-40). However, the "old guard" shot my 
idea down for the usual reasons. (See my threads last month).

Having a QO-100 type transponder with a hybrid of narrow band linear 
side and wide band digital side would open up a lot of opportunities for 
operations, public service and experimentation.?? I hope the new "slate" 
of BOD will consider this type of project as a priority.

Personally, I think GOLF has not achieved results fast enough to getting 
us a larger footprint. I am not advocating scrapping of that effort, but 
sometimes you have to jump ahead of the project and grab what is needed.

73 Joe


From bruce at perens.com  Sun Jul 19 20:02:28 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 13:02:28 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Recommendation for project website
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOuprxQoaR-TBkrJxBB13GDW6D6_wT6YGtx03KXAt2tE2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <MN2PR05MB70370205439F2BD37D45C135DF7A0@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAK2MWOuprxQoaR-TBkrJxBB13GDW6D6_wT6YGtx03KXAt2tE2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOuCRNJt6-qKYGZ5wqupUxfC7x7rP9zDGg+613MgOrBQ8w@mail.gmail.com>

I'm sorry. Wasabi is $7/Terabyte per month. Not gigabyte.

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Sun Jul 19 20:24:39 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 16:24:39 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Recommendation for project website
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR05MB70370205439F2BD37D45C135DF7A0@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MN2PR05MB70370205439F2BD37D45C135DF7A0@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c9L0Uu0X42NRSUc44dnpSC89MnFCcujpVWjMux15oqDaA@mail.gmail.com>

Have you considered using github pages (since you already use github)?

Otherwise, i'd recommend against using any open or free blogging
services because they can discontinue at any moment and then you're
screwed.  Google had one for a while and I created a bunch of content
under a blog called libjoe, but they discontinued it!  So, gar!  You
can get a micro-vm and host your own using lighty at a very low cost
with AWS or Google Cloud.

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO

On Sun, Jul 19, 2020 at 2:10 PM Leffke, Zachary via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> I was wondering if folks had any recommendations for website services for hosting simple project pages.  I do a lot of little side projects and occasionally folks ask for more details.  I tend to keep things scattered across multiple media (lots on github), and collecting up everything in a 'useful' way isn't very efficient.  I've considered making better use of github markdown, but I'm not sure thats the best way to go for all projects, particularly if I want to post a lot of images.
>
> Some examples of the types of 'project' sites that I like and am looking to start include the following:
> https://www.w6pql.com/
> http://www.w1ghz.org/
> https://destevez.net/
>
> Wordpress seems like it might be a good way to go.  For the moment I'm just looking for something simple where I can 'publish' projects a bit better than just posting code or KiCAD designs on github.  Eventually I might branch out to this new fangled social media stuff...but for the moment I just want to get the projects written up and posted.
>
> Any and all recommendations would be welcome.  I'm not opposed to pay sites (mainly to remove annoying ads from the page) as long as the interface is relatively simple and I like the look and feel of things.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> -Zach, KJ4QLP
>
>
> --
>
> Research Associate
>
> Aerospace & Ocean Systems Lab
>
> Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
>
> Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
>
> Work Phone: 540-231-4174
>
> Cell Phone: 540-808-6305
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From rich at ourowndomain.com  Sun Jul 19 20:26:48 2020
From: rich at ourowndomain.com (Rich Gopstein)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 16:26:48 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Recommendation for project website
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOuCRNJt6-qKYGZ5wqupUxfC7x7rP9zDGg+613MgOrBQ8w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <MN2PR05MB70370205439F2BD37D45C135DF7A0@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAK2MWOuprxQoaR-TBkrJxBB13GDW6D6_wT6YGtx03KXAt2tE2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOuCRNJt6-qKYGZ5wqupUxfC7x7rP9zDGg+613MgOrBQ8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANsNeardeYbPH3=pFDqQG0OwadWV2Mb18TMhPRv+LEaH5SJ8aQ@mail.gmail.com>

Also - if you don't mind getting into the weeds, AWS offers static website
hosting in S3 for cheap.  Setting it up is not point-and-click, though.



On Sun, Jul 19, 2020 at 4:04 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I'm sorry. Wasabi is $7/Terabyte per month. Not gigabyte.
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From bruninga at usna.edu  Sun Jul 19 21:03:18 2020
From: bruninga at usna.edu (Robert Bruninga)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 17:03:18 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AT Golden Packet 2020 success - Maine to Ga at 9600
In-Reply-To: <CALdCfNLTsazXo+aywNLhoz9vRKMe-Rt0wu10if7fVZMnCuNwYQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <m8AU.1595185663309838322.n5rg@groups.io>
	<CALdCfNLTsazXo+aywNLhoz9vRKMe-Rt0wu10if7fVZMnCuNwYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALdCfNJNPSrthiq8bZHq6WmNR6dk7u63e7VxAQDa6G216VdLZg@mail.gmail.com>

Amsat Rovers might find this interesting:

On Sat 18 July in brutally hot weather the 15 mountains were manned from
Maine to Ga and APRS packets and messages were exchanged end-to end.
Typical Snafu's, I had to turn back 30 mins into my 2 hr trip to go home
and get the radio! and another station had to turn back 45 mins in his 5
hour trip to get his coax!

The 4000' hike up Mt Katahdyin in Maine was again done by Tim starting at 5
AM and getting back by sunset.  Here is report from MDMTN-7 about half way
along the mountains:

"At 1100 I started receiving packets from the south, including ROAN-3,
COMERS-4, AOMTN-5 and HWKSBL-6. As soon as Bob was set up on GDHILL-8
around 1220 (an hour 20m late!) I started receiving from the north, and in
about 15 minutes I saw KATHDN-15 flying by."

In our 11th year, we now do 9600 and it works fine. And are beginning to
invite other mountains within 100 miles of the chain to join us (after the
initial end-to-end success). (after 4 hours we usually quit due to
exhaustion and heat, success or not!)

The one lesson relearned over and over is that you cannot operate mountain
top without some kind of helical or cavity filter.  You wont hear anything
but QRM.  I used the dual band DCI filter so that both the voice channel
and data channel were fine on a D710 and dual band omni.

The main page will be slowly updated!  (none yet, we are all recovering)...
http://aprs.org/at-golden-packet.html

Bob,
WB4APR

From seb at wintek.com  Sun Jul 19 21:54:23 2020
From: seb at wintek.com (Stephen  E. Belter)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 21:54:23 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] GOLF Equipment
In-Reply-To: <375225C0-A2AA-4F4D-938F-0157DF05896D@mac.com>
References: <375225C0-A2AA-4F4D-938F-0157DF05896D@mac.com>
Message-ID: <D87AEA7B-9EE3-4F03-B8A6-902FD9441AB6@wintek.com>

Clint,

I haven't heard definitive details, but the plan was for two radio systems for GOLF-TEE.  One radio system is a V/u linear transponder similar to Fox-1E.  So a station capable of working FO-29, RS-44, or Fox-1E is likely to work.  

This will be a LEO satellite that includes a de-orbit system for testing.  We need to demonstrate de-orbiting so that we can launch into higher orbits.

The second radio system is a 10 GHz downlink that will support 1 Mbps.  You'll need a 10 GHz antenna that can be steered to track a LEO satellite and probably a low-noise block downconverter (LNB) feeding an SDR.  I think similar receivers are used for QO-100, so a Google search may yield some designs that are currently working, although QO-100 is nearly stationary.

My sources are
https://www.amsat.org/greater-orbit-larger-footprint-an-introduction-to-the-amsat-golf-program/
and page C-1 and C-2 of the 2020 edition of AMSAT's Getting Started With Amateur Satellites.

73, Steve N9IP
-- 
Steve Belter, seb at wintek.com
 

?On 7/18/20, 3:11 AM, "AMSAT-BB on behalf of Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org on behalf of amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

    What is anticipated as a ?starter? station to wotk the first GOLF satellite to be deployed?

    Clint Bradford K6LCS
    _______________________________________________
    Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
    to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
    are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
    Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
    Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From w3ab at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 19 22:16:35 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (GEO Badger)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 22:16:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] LNA's
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR05MB70370205439F2BD37D45C135DF7A0@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MN2PR05MB70370205439F2BD37D45C135DF7A0@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <119836807.4018899.1595196995717@mail.yahoo.com>

 For those looking for LNA's. I assume you have to build it and chose the case.
https://www.w6pql.com/LNAs%20(preamps)%20and%20MMICs.htm

HIs website if full of interesting stuff.---??
Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side??
73 de W3AB/GEO ????

http://www.w3ab.org

You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out".

From vk2pet at internode.on.net  Mon Jul 20 02:31:33 2020
From: vk2pet at internode.on.net (Pete vk2pet)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 12:31:33 +1000
Subject: [amsat-bb] ic9100 & signal link
In-Reply-To: <788249bb-3662-2915-d885-ce8a49508271@internode.on.net>
References: <003701d5dbcb$1cceb310$566c1930$@comcast.net>
	<af8d8632-042d-4a90-8849-8a2bf63e7586@yahoo.com>
	<99717b45-8f94-162f-aa60-7854da357b18@internode.on.net>
	<788249bb-3662-2915-d885-ce8a49508271@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <f87026de-61ab-178c-b310-eae3611053d8@internode.on.net>

Hi Everyone,

I'm having trouble to get the ic9100 to TX when the signal link TX. I'm 
trying to do some packet via the signal link. So I do get a red PTT 
light on signal link. I'm guessing there might me a menu item I have 
missed on the IC9100?

Signal link is though the DATA 2 port.

73

Pete


From vk2pet at internode.on.net  Mon Jul 20 02:33:11 2020
From: vk2pet at internode.on.net (Pete vk2pet)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 12:33:11 +1000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Pinging of sats.
In-Reply-To: <788249bb-3662-2915-d885-ce8a49508271@internode.on.net>
References: <003701d5dbcb$1cceb310$566c1930$@comcast.net>
	<af8d8632-042d-4a90-8849-8a2bf63e7586@yahoo.com>
	<99717b45-8f94-162f-aa60-7854da357b18@internode.on.net>
	<788249bb-3662-2915-d885-ce8a49508271@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <32e1bda9-5e83-5d7f-0709-f102501dad25@internode.on.net>


Hi All,

Does anyone know off a satellite, like phonix, that you can sent a 
packet to & you get a ping back?

73

Pete



From robert.machale at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 20 12:44:34 2020
From: robert.machale at yahoo.com (Robert MacHale)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 12:44:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Recommendation for project website
In-Reply-To: <d2f99e59-d90d-d269-079a-bf59edf64106@gmail.com>
References: <MN2PR05MB70370205439F2BD37D45C135DF7A0@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
	<d2f99e59-d90d-d269-079a-bf59edf64106@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1138019032.4238716.1595249074049@mail.yahoo.com>

Try?https://www.instructables.com/

Also, I like the layout of http://medium.com

73

Robert MacHale
. KE6BLR Ham Radio License
.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration

Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!Political Quote:?He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Paine






On Sunday, July 19, 2020, 11:16:18 AM PDT, lu9cbl--- via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 





Do you check the blog style as blogspot??? do you have it for free with 
a gmail account.

73s

Mati LU9CBL (http://lu9cbl.blogspot.com/)

El 19/7/2020 a las 15:07, Leffke, Zachary via AMSAT-BB escribi?:
> Hi All,
> I was wondering if folks had any recommendations for website services for hosting simple project pages.? I do a lot of little side projects and occasionally folks ask for more details.? I tend to keep things scattered across multiple media (lots on github), and collecting up everything in a 'useful' way isn't very efficient.? I've considered making better use of github markdown, but I'm not sure thats the best way to go for all projects, particularly if I want to post a lot of images.
>
> Some examples of the types of 'project' sites that I like and am looking to start include the following:
> https://www.w6pql.com/
> http://www.w1ghz.org/
> https://destevez.net/
>
> Wordpress seems like it might be a good way to go.? For the moment I'm just looking for something simple where I can 'publish' projects a bit better than just posting code or KiCAD designs on github.? Eventually I might branch out to this new fangled social media stuff...but for the moment I just want to get the projects written up and posted.
>
> Any and all recommendations would be welcome.? I'm not opposed to pay sites (mainly to remove annoying ads from the page) as long as the interface is relatively simple and I like the look and feel of things.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> -Zach, KJ4QLP
>
>
> --
>
> Research Associate
>
> Aerospace & Ocean Systems Lab
>
> Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
>
> Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
>
> Work Phone: 540-231-4174
>
> Cell Phone: 540-808-6305
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

-- 
El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electr?nico en busca de virus.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From robert.machale at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 20 13:05:31 2020
From: robert.machale at yahoo.com (Robert MacHale)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 13:05:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Recommendation for project website
In-Reply-To: <1138019032.4238716.1595249074049@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <MN2PR05MB70370205439F2BD37D45C135DF7A0@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
	<d2f99e59-d90d-d269-079a-bf59edf64106@gmail.com>
	<1138019032.4238716.1595249074049@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1653250560.4236934.1595250331308@mail.yahoo.com>

I built a home brew Az/El antenna rotator for tracking the ISS with my Arrow 2M Yagi. It's a type of a mini Yeasu G-5500DC for light weight antennas.

That project is posted here:?https://www.instructables.com/id/R2D2M2-ISS-Antenna-Tracker/

Instructables is good for publishing how-to projects.

73

Robert MacHale
. KE6BLR Ham Radio License
.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration

Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!Political Quote:?He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Paine






On Monday, July 20, 2020, 05:48:26 AM PDT, Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 





Try?https://www.instructables.com/

Also, I like the layout of http://medium.com

73

Robert MacHale
. KE6BLR Ham Radio License
.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration

Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!Political Quote:?He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Paine






On Sunday, July 19, 2020, 11:16:18 AM PDT, lu9cbl--- via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 





Do you check the blog style as blogspot??? do you have it for free with 
a gmail account.

73s

Mati LU9CBL (http://lu9cbl.blogspot.com/)

El 19/7/2020 a las 15:07, Leffke, Zachary via AMSAT-BB escribi?:
> Hi All,
> I was wondering if folks had any recommendations for website services for hosting simple project pages.? I do a lot of little side projects and occasionally folks ask for more details.? I tend to keep things scattered across multiple media (lots on github), and collecting up everything in a 'useful' way isn't very efficient.? I've considered making better use of github markdown, but I'm not sure thats the best way to go for all projects, particularly if I want to post a lot of images.
>
> Some examples of the types of 'project' sites that I like and am looking to start include the following:
> https://www.w6pql.com/
> http://www.w1ghz.org/
> https://destevez.net/
>
> Wordpress seems like it might be a good way to go.? For the moment I'm just looking for something simple where I can 'publish' projects a bit better than just posting code or KiCAD designs on github.? Eventually I might branch out to this new fangled social media stuff...but for the moment I just want to get the projects written up and posted.
>
> Any and all recommendations would be welcome.? I'm not opposed to pay sites (mainly to remove annoying ads from the page) as long as the interface is relatively simple and I like the look and feel of things.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> -Zach, KJ4QLP
>
>
> --
>
> Research Associate
>
> Aerospace & Ocean Systems Lab
>
> Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
>
> Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
>
> Work Phone: 540-231-4174
>
> Cell Phone: 540-808-6305
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

-- 
El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electr?nico en busca de virus.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From tokens at myranch.com  Mon Jul 20 13:15:15 2020
From: tokens at myranch.com (tokens at myranch.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 09:15:15 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Elections HEO QO-100' Linear NB + Digital WB
Message-ID: <5628B2A697B1437CBD079237CAB2C9E4@DESKTOPB9OPM2H>

Joe,

I agree with you 100%. Over the years I have heard all sorts of reasons why we can?t do this or that. Although we sure can argue! Specifically I have seen posts on why QO-100 isn?t a good idea. The meantime the guys in the eastern hemisphere are having a great time with their satellite while we argue about what is going on the next Cubesat. I haven?t been active on satellites for a number of years and won?t go into why. But you can be sure if we had something like QO-100 out there I would be active particularly on DATV.

Al W8KHP

From bruninga at usna.edu  Mon Jul 20 13:34:51 2020
From: bruninga at usna.edu (Robert Bruninga)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 09:34:51 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Dual band cavity filter?
Message-ID: <CALdCfNJKuAQ73BT_jZwDSu1O0uh=zfiZBFSekjwoLznstuyhoA@mail.gmail.com>

Many of us use dual band radios but when operating on mountains or hills we
need a front end cavity filter.  The DCI dual band helical filter is ideal
but I just learned it is $530!

I'm starting to visualize  a cavity filter made out of a piece of aluminum
drain pipe.  With a capacitive screw at the top for tuning VHF and a
smaller one about 1/3rd the way up for UHF.

My theory is that the lower UHF capacitance will be at a UHF high-Z point
and will tune the UHF nicely and the one at the top will tune the VHF
nicely.  Of course with very much interaction.

Unfortunately for our annual Golden Packet Event, the 3rd harmonic of our
APRS VHF operating frequency is at 432 and our use of APRS UHF talking freq
at 445.925 is quite away away.

Maybe if such a single cavity design could work, we could use the event's
UHF voice coordination frequency closer to the 3rd harmonic to make the
filter easier or possible to tune dual band  (Though we night then also
Desense voice with every packet).

I want it to buildable from Home Depot and common tools.  Wont be as good
as the $530 DCI filter, but maybe close enough for our event.

It wont be robust and it wont be quality, but might work for us AND amsat
dual band operators in the field.

my big assumption is that a 1/4 wave cavity filter will also work on its
3rd harmonic?  We only need to knock down QRM to prevent desense.

Anyone have cheaper than $530 solutions?

Bob

From jean.marc.momple at gmail.com  Mon Jul 20 15:43:58 2020
From: jean.marc.momple at gmail.com (Jean Marc Momple)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 19:43:58 +0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Elections HEO QO-100' Linear NB + Digital WB
In-Reply-To: <f0f7545a-672a-0754-4172-fc9ffac0e797@leikhim.com>
References: <f0f7545a-672a-0754-4172-fc9ffac0e797@leikhim.com>
Message-ID: <B266C83E-B770-4D95-BEDE-1013B96B30F3@gmail.com>

Joe,

You are right and just to share.

QO-100 as changed completely the HAM activities in 3B8, being quite isolated in the middle of the Indian Ocean and HF going nowhere. QO-100 revived the hobby here particularly enable new modes such as ATV which was impossible before with about 4 OM?s (about 40% of the active 3B8 Ham population) on QO-100 and 2 active on ATV.

I carried many workshops on satellites in 3B8 and Reunion Is. and believe strongly that QO-100 example should be followed by the regions (R2 &R3) to have a global coverage thus 24/7 coverage and not depending of sunspots.

HEO is also a solution but we need to find a ride for same, partnering with commercial GEO?s  operators to have transponders as payload is also difficult,  but trying hard enough may work out positive eventually.

I am always optimistic an actually working in above direction also.

73


Jean Marc (3B8DU)

> On Jul 19, 2020, at 11:31 PM, Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> K4SAT here.
> 
> I am intrigued about QO-100 and have monitored it here in Florida by remote WEB SDR access. I have not been active in the years since AO-40 failed and have been eager to see some HEO operations like I enjoyed from AO-10 and AO-13. Listening to QO-100 has rekindled that interest.
> 
> Last month on AMSAT-BB I posed the question about getting a GEO ride share with a commercial satellite, something that was considered 12 years ago with Intelsat. Having a QO-100 type transponder here CONUS would grow the hobby and get folks like me active again (and contributing sums as I did for AO-40). However, the "old guard" shot my idea down for the usual reasons. (See my threads last month).
> 
> Having a QO-100 type transponder with a hybrid of narrow band linear side and wide band digital side would open up a lot of opportunities for operations, public service and experimentation.   I hope the new "slate" of BOD will consider this type of project as a priority.
> 
> Personally, I think GOLF has not achieved results fast enough to getting us a larger footprint. I am not advocating scrapping of that effort, but sometimes you have to jump ahead of the project and grab what is needed.
> 
> 73 Joe
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From m5aka at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Jul 20 16:30:40 2020
From: m5aka at yahoo.co.uk (M5AKA)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 16:30:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] =?utf-8?q?OSCAR_Satellite_QSO_Party_1_Aug_=E2=80=93_22?=
	=?utf-8?q?_Sept?=
References: <397480482.6707514.1595262640307.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <397480482.6707514.1595262640307@mail.yahoo.com>

The objective of the AMSAT-UK OSCAR Satellite QSO Party is to encourage all radio amateurs around the world to get on the air and make contacts via satellites during northern hemisphere summer 
https://amsat-uk.org/2020/07/20/oscar-satellite-qso-party/

DIY Weather Satellite Ground Station 
Sasha M6IOR and Sophie M6NYX have made available a Guide for the reception of NOAA satellite images using software defined radio on Windows or MacOS 
https://amsat-uk.org/2020/07/07/diy-weather-satellite-ground-station/

ESA promote amateur radio in ISS SSTV video 
https://amsat-uk.org/2020/07/08/esa-promote-amateur-radio-iss-sstv/

Trevor M5AKA----
AMSAT-UK?http://amsat-uk.org/
Twitter?https://twitter.com/AmsatUK
Facebook?https://facebook.com/AmsatUK
YouTube?https://youtube.com/AmsatUK
----



From aj9n at aol.com  Mon Jul 20 16:33:31 2020
From: aj9n at aol.com (aj9n at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 16:33:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-07-20 16:30
	UTC
References: <1629876959.3071128.1595262811867.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1629876959.3071128.1595262811867@mail.yahoo.com>


Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-07-20 16:30 UTC

?

Quick list of scheduled contacts and events:

?

GAGARIN FROM SPACE Performing an amateur radio session with the 9th International Aerospace School.? Ufa, U.N. Sultanova Republic of Bashkortostan, Russia, direct via RZ9WWB (***)

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be RS?ISS 

The scheduled astronaut is Ivan Vagner 

Contact was successful: Fri 2020-07-17 19:08 UTC (***)

?

########################################################################################################################################

A multi-point telebridge contact means that each student will be on the telebridge from their own home.

*************************************************

?

ARISS is very aware of the impact that COVID-19 is having on schools and the public in general.? As such, we may have last minute cancellations or postponements of school contacts.? As always, I will try to provide everyone with near-real-time updates.? 

?

The following schools have now been postponed or cancelled due to COVID-19:? 

?

Postponed:

No new schools

?

Cancelled:

No new schools

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

?

Watch for future COVID-19 related announcements here also.

?

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

?

Note, all times are approximate. ?It is recommended that you do your own 

orbital prediction?or start listening about 10 minutes before the listed 

time. 

All dates and times listed follow International Standard ISO 8601 date and 

time format YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS

?

The complete schedule page has been updated as of?2020-07-20 16:30 UTC. (***)

Here you will find a listing of all scheduled?school contacts, and 

questions, other ISS related websites, IRLP and Echolink websites, and 

instructions for any contact that may be streamed live.

?

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf 

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.txt 

?

?

The successful school list has been updated as of 2020-07-20 16:30 UTC. (***)

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/Successful_ARISS_schools.rtf 

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

?

Message to US Educators

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States) 

?

The Proposal Window of February 1, 2020 to March 31, 2020 has now closed.

?

For future proposal information and more details such as expectations, proposal guidelines and proposal form, and dates and times of Information Webinars, go to www.ariss.org.

?

Please direct any questions to?ariss.us.education at gmail.com.

?

About ARISS:

?

Amateur Radio on the International Space Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radio societies and the space agencies that support the International Space Station (ISS).? In the United States, sponsors are the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio Relay League (ARRL), the ISS National Lab and National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEAM) topics by organizing scheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS and students in classrooms or public forms. Before and during these radio contacts, students, educators, parents, and communities learn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. For more information, see www.ariss.org.

?

********************************************************************************

ARISS Contact Applications (Europe, Africa and the Middle East)

?

Schools and Youth organizations in Europe, Africa and the Middle East interested in setting up an ARISS radio contact with an astronaut on board the International Space Station are invited to submit an application from September to October and from February to April.

Please refer to details and the application form at www.ariss-eu.org/school-contacts.? Applications should be addressed by email to:? school.selection.manager at ariss-eu.org

?

ARISS Contact Applications (Canada, Central and South America, Asia and Australia and Russia)

?

Organizations outside the United States can apply for an ARISS contact by filling out an application.? Please direct questions to the appropriate regional representative listed below. If your country is not specifically listed, send your questions to the nearest ARISS Region listed. If you are unsure which address to use, please send your question to the ARISS-Canada representative; they will forward your question to the appropriate coordinator.

?

For the application, go to:? https://www.ariss.org/ariss-application.html.

ARISS-Canada and the Americas, except USA: Steve McFarlane, VE3TBD email to: ve3tbd at gmail.com

ARISS-Japan, Asia, Pacific and Australia: Satoshi Yasuda, 7M3TJZ email to: ariss at iaru-r3.org, Japan Amateur Radio League (JARL) https://www.jarl.org/

ARISS-Russia: Soyuz Radioljubitelei Rossii (SRR) https://srr.ru/

?

?

******************************************************************************

ARISS is always glad to receive listener reports for the above contacts.? ARISS thanks everyone in advance for their assistance.? Feel free to send your reports to aj9n at amsat.org or aj9n at aol.com.

?

Listen for the ISS on the downlink of 145.8? MHz.

?

*******************************************************************************

?

All ARISS contacts are made via the Kenwood radio unless otherwise noted.

?

*******************************************************************************


Several of you have sent me emails asking about the RAC ARISS website and 
not being able to get in. ?That has now been changed to https://www.ariss.org/

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

****************************************************************************

Looking for something new to do?? How about receiving DATV from the ISS?? Please note that the HamTV system has been brought back to earth for troubleshooting.? Please monitor ARISS-EU or ARISS-ON for the very latest news on the troubleshooting efforts.? 

?

If interested, then please go to the ARISS-EU website for complete details.? Look for the buttons indicating Ham Video.???????????? 

?

http://www.ariss-eu.org/

?

If you need some assistance, ARISS mentor Kerry N6IZW, might be able to provide some insight.? Contact Kerry at kbanke at sbcglobal.net

?

?

The HamTV webpage:? https://www.amsat-on.be/hamtv-summary/

?

?

****************************************************************************
ARISS congratulations the following mentors who have now mentored over 100 schools: 

?

Francesco IK?WGF with 140

Satoshi 7M3TJZ with 138 

Sergey RV3DR with 134 (***) 

Gaston ON4WF with 123

?

****************************************************************************

The webpages listed below were all reviewed for accuracy. Out of date 

webpages were removed, and new ones have been added.? If there are additional 

ARISS websites I need to know about, please let me know.

?

?

?

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school events is 1392. (***)

Each school counts as 1 event.?????????????????????????????????? 

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school contacts is 1325. (***)

Each contact may have multiple schools sharing the same time slot.

Total number of ARISS supported terrestrial contacts is 48. 

?

A complete year by year breakdown of the contacts may be found in the 

file.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf

?

Please feel free to contact me if more detailed statistics are needed.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



The following US states and entities have never had an ARISS contact:
South Dakota, Wyoming, American?Samoa, Guam, Northern Marianas Islands, and the Virgin Islands.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

?

QSL information may be found at:

https://www.ariss.org/qsl-cards.html

?

ISS callsigns: DP?ISS, IR?ISS, NA1SS, OR4ISS, RS?ISS

?

****************************************************************************



Frequency chart for packet, voice, and crossband repeater modes showing 

Doppler correction as of 2005-07-29 04:00 UTC

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/ISS_frequencies_and_Doppler_correction.rtf



Check out the Zoho reports of the ARISS contacts

?

https://reports.zoho.com/ZDBDataSheetView.cc?DBID=412218000000020415

****************************************************************************

?

Exp. 62 now on orbit 

Chris Cassidy KF5KDR

Anatoli Ivanishin

Ivan Vagner

?

SpaceX-Demo2 now on orbit 

Bob Behnken KE5GGX

Doug Hurley

?

****************************************************************************

73,

Charlie?Sufana AJ9N
One of the ARISS operation team mentors

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?



From aj9n at aol.com  Mon Jul 20 16:50:00 2020
From: aj9n at aol.com (aj9n at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 16:50:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-07-20 17:00
	UTC
References: <474595377.3079593.1595263800009.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <474595377.3079593.1595263800009@mail.yahoo.com>


Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-07-20 17:00 UTC

?

Quick list of scheduled contacts and events:

?

GAGARIN FROM SPACE Performing an amateur radio session with the 9th International Aerospace School.? Ufa, U.N. Sultanova Republic of Bashkortostan, Russia, direct via RZ9WWB (***)

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be RS?ISS 

The scheduled astronaut is Ivan Vagner 

Contact was successful: Fri 2020-07-17 19:08 UTC (***)

?

American School of Rio de Janeiro, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, Multi-point telebridge via ON4ISS (***)

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be OR4ISS (***) 

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR 

Contact is go for: Thu 2020-07-30 16:41:42 UTC 78 deg (***)

?

?

########################################################################################################################################

A multi-point telebridge contact means that each student will be on the telebridge from their own home.

*************************************************

?

ARISS is very aware of the impact that COVID-19 is having on schools and the public in general.? As such, we may have last minute cancellations or postponements of school contacts.? As always, I will try to provide everyone with near-real-time updates.? 

?

The following schools have now been postponed or cancelled due to COVID-19:? 

?

Postponed:

No new schools

?

Cancelled:

No new schools

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

?

Watch for future COVID-19 related announcements here also.

?

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

?

Note, all times are approximate. ?It is recommended that you do your own 

orbital prediction?or start listening about 10 minutes before the listed 

time. 

All dates and times listed follow International Standard ISO 8601 date and 

time format YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS

?

The complete schedule page has been updated as of?2020-07-20 17:00 UTC. (***)

Here you will find a listing of all scheduled?school contacts, and 

questions, other ISS related websites, IRLP and Echolink websites, and 

instructions for any contact that may be streamed live.

?

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf 

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.txt 

?

?

The successful school list has been updated as of 2020-07-20 16:30 UTC. (***)

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/Successful_ARISS_schools.rtf 

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

?

Message to US Educators

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States) 

?

The Proposal Window of February 1, 2020 to March 31, 2020 has now closed.

?

For future proposal information and more details such as expectations, proposal guidelines and proposal form, and dates and times of Information Webinars, go to www.ariss.org.

?

Please direct any questions to?ariss.us.education at gmail.com.

?

About ARISS:

?

Amateur Radio on the International Space Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radio societies and the space agencies that support the International Space Station (ISS).? In the United States, sponsors are the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio Relay League (ARRL), the ISS National Lab and National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEAM) topics by organizing scheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS and students in classrooms or public forms. Before and during these radio contacts, students, educators, parents, and communities learn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. For more information, see www.ariss.org.

?

********************************************************************************

ARISS Contact Applications (Europe, Africa and the Middle East)

?

Schools and Youth organizations in Europe, Africa and the Middle East interested in setting up an ARISS radio contact with an astronaut on board the International Space Station are invited to submit an application from September to October and from February to April.

Please refer to details and the application form at www.ariss-eu.org/school-contacts.? Applications should be addressed by email to:? school.selection.manager at ariss-eu.org

?

ARISS Contact Applications (Canada, Central and South America, Asia and Australia and Russia)

?

Organizations outside the United States can apply for an ARISS contact by filling out an application.? Please direct questions to the appropriate regional representative listed below. If your country is not specifically listed, send your questions to the nearest ARISS Region listed. If you are unsure which address to use, please send your question to the ARISS-Canada representative; they will forward your question to the appropriate coordinator.

?

For the application, go to:? https://www.ariss.org/ariss-application.html.

ARISS-Canada and the Americas, except USA: Steve McFarlane, VE3TBD email to: ve3tbd at gmail.com

ARISS-Japan, Asia, Pacific and Australia: Satoshi Yasuda, 7M3TJZ email to: ariss at iaru-r3.org, Japan Amateur Radio League (JARL) https://www.jarl.org/

ARISS-Russia: Soyuz Radioljubitelei Rossii (SRR) https://srr.ru/

?

?

******************************************************************************

ARISS is always glad to receive listener reports for the above contacts.? ARISS thanks everyone in advance for their assistance.? Feel free to send your reports to aj9n at amsat.org or aj9n at aol.com.

?

Listen for the ISS on the downlink of 145.8? MHz.

?

*******************************************************************************

?

All ARISS contacts are made via the Kenwood radio unless otherwise noted.

?

*******************************************************************************


Several of you have sent me emails asking about the RAC ARISS website and 
not being able to get in. ?That has now been changed to https://www.ariss.org/

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

****************************************************************************

Looking for something new to do?? How about receiving DATV from the ISS?? Please note that the HamTV system has been brought back to earth for troubleshooting.? Please monitor ARISS-EU or ARISS-ON for the very latest news on the troubleshooting efforts.? 

?

If interested, then please go to the ARISS-EU website for complete details.? Look for the buttons indicating Ham Video.???????????? 

?

http://www.ariss-eu.org/

?

If you need some assistance, ARISS mentor Kerry N6IZW, might be able to provide some insight.? Contact Kerry at kbanke at sbcglobal.net

?

?

The HamTV webpage:? https://www.amsat-on.be/hamtv-summary/

?

?

****************************************************************************
ARISS congratulations the following mentors who have now mentored over 100 schools: 

?

Francesco IK?WGF with 140

Satoshi 7M3TJZ with 138 

Sergey RV3DR with 134 (***) 

Gaston ON4WF with 123

?

****************************************************************************

The webpages listed below were all reviewed for accuracy. Out of date 

webpages were removed, and new ones have been added.? If there are additional 

ARISS websites I need to know about, please let me know.

?

?

?

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school events is 1392. (***)

Each school counts as 1 event.?????????????????????????????????? 

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school contacts is 1325. (***)

Each contact may have multiple schools sharing the same time slot.

Total number of ARISS supported terrestrial contacts is 48. 

?

A complete year by year breakdown of the contacts may be found in the 

file.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf

?

Please feel free to contact me if more detailed statistics are needed.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



The following US states and entities have never had an ARISS contact:
South Dakota, Wyoming, American?Samoa, Guam, Northern Marianas Islands, and the Virgin Islands.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

?

QSL information may be found at:

https://www.ariss.org/qsl-cards.html

?

ISS callsigns: DP?ISS, IR?ISS, NA1SS, OR4ISS, RS?ISS

?

****************************************************************************



Frequency chart for packet, voice, and crossband repeater modes showing 

Doppler correction as of 2005-07-29 04:00 UTC

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/ISS_frequencies_and_Doppler_correction.rtf



Check out the Zoho reports of the ARISS contacts

?

https://reports.zoho.com/ZDBDataSheetView.cc?DBID=412218000000020415

****************************************************************************

?

Exp. 62 now on orbit 

Chris Cassidy KF5KDR

Anatoli Ivanishin

Ivan Vagner

?

SpaceX-Demo2 now on orbit 

Bob Behnken KE5GGX

Doug Hurley

?

****************************************************************************

73,

Charlie?Sufana AJ9N
One of the ARISS operation team mentors

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?



From maccody at att.net  Mon Jul 20 17:13:18 2020
From: maccody at att.net (Mac A. Cody)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 12:13:18 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Elections HEO QO-100' Linear NB + Digital WB
In-Reply-To: <f0f7545a-672a-0754-4172-fc9ffac0e797@leikhim.com>
References: <f0f7545a-672a-0754-4172-fc9ffac0e797@leikhim.com>
Message-ID: <caabd1e0-14fe-d4f5-2134-b9271b1d1347@att.net>

Joe,

The requirements, both physical and regulatory, are much more difficult than
what it takes for a LEO satellites like the FOX-series cubesats.? Orbital
debris mitigation, active orbital orientation, and radiation hardening 
are just
a few of the challenges that have to be met and satisfied before launch can
even be considered.

Still, it would be nice to have a duplicate of QO-100 over our skies.? 
It would
certainly be a game-changer.? If the design plans are open, it might 
reduce the
time to launch by just duplicating the QO-100 design and focus on finding a
willing host.

I've been searching around looking at the Phase 4 activities that were 
going on
a few years ago.? It looks like it has been quiet for a couple of 
years.? If I
recall, there were some things about it that unsettled me a bit.? First, 
was the
plan for it to be all digital, with a limit of about 100 terminals 
working the
five-and-dime channel at any time.? Second, the cost goal for a terminal was
to be $1000, but they had a hard time reaching $1500.? Third, each 
terminal would
be set up with aN ARAP (Amateur Radio Access Point), which would allow 
legacy
radio to communicate through the 'radio network'.? The combination of 
cost (another
rich man's toy), accessibility, and regulated structure were a bit of a 
turn-off
for me.? If I wanted to communicate with my hand held radio via a 
'virtual pipe'
to someone on the other side of the world, I'd just buy a DMR radio and 
hot spot.

73,

Mac Cody / AE5PH

On 7/19/20 2:31 PM, Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> K4SAT here.
>
> I am intrigued about QO-100 and have monitored it here in Florida by 
> remote WEB SDR access. I have not been active in the years since AO-40 
> failed and have been eager to see some HEO operations like I enjoyed 
> from AO-10 and AO-13. Listening to QO-100 has rekindled that interest.
>
> Last month on AMSAT-BB I posed the question about getting a GEO ride 
> share with a commercial satellite, something that was considered 12 
> years ago with Intelsat. Having a QO-100 type transponder here CONUS 
> would grow the hobby and get folks like me active again (and 
> contributing sums as I did for AO-40). However, the "old guard" shot 
> my idea down for the usual reasons. (See my threads last month).
>
> Having a QO-100 type transponder with a hybrid of narrow band linear 
> side and wide band digital side would open up a lot of opportunities 
> for operations, public service and experimentation.?? I hope the new 
> "slate" of BOD will consider this type of project as a priority.
>
> Personally, I think GOLF has not achieved results fast enough to 
> getting us a larger footprint. I am not advocating scrapping of that 
> effort, but sometimes you have to jump ahead of the project and grab 
> what is needed.
>
> 73 Joe
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. 
> Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views 
> of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite 
> program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb



From w3ab at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 20 18:42:00 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (GEO Badger)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 18:42:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] NOVA rotor iface
References: <1737789724.4444296.1595270520220.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1737789724.4444296.1595270520220@mail.yahoo.com>

I'm trying to use NOVA and I don't see where I set the serial comms in the rotor setup.
---? 
 Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side??
73 de W3AB/GEO ??? 

 http://www.w3ab.org

You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out".

From jim at k6ccc.org  Mon Jul 20 18:53:24 2020
From: jim at k6ccc.org (jim at k6ccc.org)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 11:53:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [amsat-bb] NOVA rotor iface
In-Reply-To: <1737789724.4444296.1595270520220@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1737789724.4444296.1595270520220.ref@mail.yahoo.com> 
	<1737789724.4444296.1595270520220@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1595271204.020626256@apps.rackspace.com>


I am using Nova.  Rotor setup is Under Menu > Setup > Antenna Rotator.  Or are you asking something else?  What interface hardware are you using?


Jim - K6CCC
jim at k6ccc.org



-----Original Message-----
From: "GEO Badger via AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 11:42
To: "AMSAT BB" <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] NOVA rotor iface

I'm trying to use NOVA and I don't see where I set the serial comms in the rotor setup.
---? 
 Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side??
73 de W3AB/GEO ??? 

 http://www.w3ab.org

You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out".
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb



From w3ab at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 20 19:01:30 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (GEO Badger)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 19:01:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] NOVA rotor iface
In-Reply-To: <1595271204.020626256@apps.rackspace.com>
References: <1737789724.4444296.1595270520220.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1737789724.4444296.1595270520220@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1595271204.020626256@apps.rackspace.com>
Message-ID: <1400959946.4468934.1595271690176@mail.yahoo.com>

I'm sorry, I neglected to say what controller I am using, LVB Tracker. So I used the Kansas City Tracker. The program should need to see a com port so the PC can talk to the controller.
---? 
 Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side??
73 de W3AB/GEO ??? 

 http://www.w3ab.org

You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out". 

    On Monday, July 20, 2020, 11:53:24 AM PDT, jim at k6ccc.org <jim at k6ccc.org> wrote:  
 
 
I am using Nova.? Rotor setup is Under Menu > Setup > Antenna Rotator.? Or are you asking something else?? What interface hardware are you using?


Jim - K6CCC
jim at k6ccc.org



-----Original Message-----
From: "GEO Badger via AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 11:42
To: "AMSAT BB" <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] NOVA rotor iface

I'm trying to use NOVA and I don't see where I set the serial comms in the rotor setup.
---? 
 Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side??
73 de W3AB/GEO ??? 

 http://www.w3ab.org

You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out".
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

  

From lu7aa at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 20 19:38:28 2020
From: lu7aa at yahoo.com (Amsat Argentina)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 19:38:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] APRS lu1kcq-11 PicoBallon 3rd day over Brazil
References: <1955139239.4486556.1595273908585.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1955139239.4486556.1595273908585@mail.yahoo.com>

Tracking:
 APRS lu1kcq-11 PicoBallon 3rd day over Brazil

http://lu7aa.org.ar/vor.asp?callsign=LU1KCQ-11&AutoRef=true

Launch: http://amsat.org.ar/lu1kcq.mp4

Live Chat on: http://amsat.org.ar/chat

Should change to 145.825 when over sea

73, LU7AA, AMSAT Argentina

| 
| 
|  | 
Chat


 |

 |

 |


From amsat.va7kbm at outlook.com  Mon Jul 20 22:09:32 2020
From: amsat.va7kbm at outlook.com (VA7KBM)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 15:09:32 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <DM5PR22MB08253AB6D0801ECBC044BB37877F0@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
	<MWHPR04MB37425EA715C9F36BA52C2BA8DC7F0@MWHPR04MB3742.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
	<DM5PR22MB08253AB6D0801ECBC044BB37877F0@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <MWHPR04MB3742E35779F022F4824E99C7DC7B0@MWHPR04MB3742.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Joe,

My apologies - I didn't mean to state the obvious, or make light of any 
technical or operational difficulties with respect to email.

Personally, I haven't used groups.io enough myself to either recommend 
it or not recommend it, but I can imagine the tagging and group-like 
features of groups.io might bridge the gap between those AMSAT members 
who like traditional email lists and those who favour more of a 
conference-like system. Other members may have had more in-depth with 
groups.io or other systems and be prepared to champion one system over 
another.

Again, speaking personally, I would just phase-out the email aliasing 
service.

Thanks to you and everyone else at AMSAT for all your work!

73 Ken VA7KBM

On 7/16/2020 9:54 AM, Joseph B. Fitzgerald wrote:
> Ken,  VA7KBM wrote:
>> ... AMSAT should consider a more modern email list system.
> Presently the IT crew is working on migrating our servers off the existing Linux distribution which goes end-of-life in November to Ubuntu 20.04 LTS.    This will result in a change to GNU Mailman 3.0 ... more modern but not exactly a quantum leap.   Now would be a great time for a fleshed out proposal for something else since it would be hard on the users to switch again in another year or whatever.   I have looked at groups.io a little bit in the past, and it seems to be run by "good guys".    Don't wait for "AMSAT" to consider alternatives, you guys are AMSAT, so put together a good proposal and convince people.
>
>> ... It's generally not a good idea
>> for most small organizations to run their own email servers these days -
>> too much security and technical overhead, and who needs that?
> I surely don't need that and I am one of they guys that directly deals with that overhead.   That being said, an issue that trips me up every time I look at having someone else run things is the e-mail alias service we provide to anyone with a callsign.    We have somewhere around 16,000 users of that service and I know of no economically viable way to do that except on our own servers.
>
> de KM1P Joe

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Mon Jul 20 22:28:38 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 17:28:38 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
Message-ID: <90b0b2a0-4ed0-4a5f-f1c4-4b31668bcde4@pobox.com>


Hello all,

The email list has worked well for me, and can be read by a neutral 
email app on my phone (K9Droid is what I use).

If we moved to Slack, I'd probably not participate. I find the 
stream-of-consciousness level of communication distracting enough using 
Microsoft Teams at work. My hobby interests rarely require instantaneous 
responses to someone else's thoughts.

I would caution against groups.io on political neutrality grounds. If 
you look at the page https://groups.io/static/pricing and search for 
"Indivisible", it is clear that those who run groups.io have a political 
axe to grind.

This is the reason that I dropped off of another email list (NTMS) when 
they moved to groups.io from Yahoo Groups.

Anyway, I prefer a simple email of plain text to something with flashy 
colors and obnoxious fonts. If something needs to be said graphically, 
include a URL to one of the many free hosting sites with the desired 
content.

My $0.02,

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From kd6yam at amsat.org  Tue Jul 21 00:27:01 2020
From: kd6yam at amsat.org (Martin Cooper)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 17:27:01 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR04MB3742E35779F022F4824E99C7DC7B0@MWHPR04MB3742.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
	<MWHPR04MB37425EA715C9F36BA52C2BA8DC7F0@MWHPR04MB3742.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
	<DM5PR22MB08253AB6D0801ECBC044BB37877F0@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
	<MWHPR04MB3742E35779F022F4824E99C7DC7B0@MWHPR04MB3742.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAGEtHi+BwA0EBFw-10dDSRpwf+8hBs7jAsz6GgqS836=GRDa=w@mail.gmail.com>

> Again, speaking personally, I would just phase-out the email aliasing
> service.

That would be a huge problem for many of the people who use it. Just taking
away the e-mail alias itself would mean breaking countless links around the
web - for example in many years of e-mail archives across numerous
discussion lists, where people could no longer reply to the author of a
message they found in those archives. Also, e-mail addresses are used for
much more than just sending mail. They're used for account ids on websites,
account ids in source control systems, account ids in bug tracking systems,
and much more. And in the ham world, using your callsign is perhaps a more
common means of id than your name, so having callsign at amsat.org is an easy
way for people to reach you. (No doubt someone will mention @arrl.net as an
alternative, but that requires membership in ARRL, and not everyone is, or
wants to be, a member of that organisation.)

Martin.
KD6YAM


On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 4:55 PM VA7KBM via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Hi Joe,
>
> My apologies - I didn't mean to state the obvious, or make light of any
> technical or operational difficulties with respect to email.
>
> Personally, I haven't used groups.io enough myself to either recommend
> it or not recommend it, but I can imagine the tagging and group-like
> features of groups.io might bridge the gap between those AMSAT members
> who like traditional email lists and those who favour more of a
> conference-like system. Other members may have had more in-depth with
> groups.io or other systems and be prepared to champion one system over
> another.
>
> Again, speaking personally, I would just phase-out the email aliasing
> service.
>
> Thanks to you and everyone else at AMSAT for all your work!
>
> 73 Ken VA7KBM
>
> On 7/16/2020 9:54 AM, Joseph B. Fitzgerald wrote:
> > Ken,  VA7KBM wrote:
> >> ... AMSAT should consider a more modern email list system.
> > Presently the IT crew is working on migrating our servers off the
> existing Linux distribution which goes end-of-life in November to Ubuntu
> 20.04 LTS.    This will result in a change to GNU Mailman 3.0 ... more
> modern but not exactly a quantum leap.   Now would be a great time for a
> fleshed out proposal for something else since it would be hard on the users
> to switch again in another year or whatever.   I have looked at groups.io
> a little bit in the past, and it seems to be run by "good guys".    Don't
> wait for "AMSAT" to consider alternatives, you guys are AMSAT, so put
> together a good proposal and convince people.
> >
> >> ... It's generally not a good idea
> >> for most small organizations to run their own email servers these days -
> >> too much security and technical overhead, and who needs that?
> > I surely don't need that and I am one of they guys that directly deals
> with that overhead.   That being said, an issue that trips me up every time
> I look at having someone else run things is the e-mail alias service we
> provide to anyone with a callsign.    We have somewhere around 16,000 users
> of that service and I know of no economically viable way to do that except
> on our own servers.
> >
> > de KM1P Joe
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 21 03:21:08 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 20:21:08 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Comet from the ISS
In-Reply-To: <CAGEtHi+BwA0EBFw-10dDSRpwf+8hBs7jAsz6GgqS836=GRDa=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <630780880.1425003.1594736587513.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<630780880.1425003.1594736587513@mail.yahoo.com>
	<MWHPR04MB37425EA715C9F36BA52C2BA8DC7F0@MWHPR04MB3742.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
	<DM5PR22MB08253AB6D0801ECBC044BB37877F0@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
	<MWHPR04MB3742E35779F022F4824E99C7DC7B0@MWHPR04MB3742.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAGEtHi+BwA0EBFw-10dDSRpwf+8hBs7jAsz6GgqS836=GRDa=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <db6ad624-7c47-42ad-bdbc-258d47494bf8@yahoo.com>

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap200710.html

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 20, 2020, 17:30, at 17:30, Martin Cooper via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> Again, speaking personally, I would just phase-out the email aliasing
>> service.
>
>That would be a huge problem for many of the people who use it. Just
>taking
>away the e-mail alias itself would mean breaking countless links around
>the
>web - for example in many years of e-mail archives across numerous
>discussion lists, where people could no longer reply to the author of a
>message they found in those archives. Also, e-mail addresses are used
>for
>much more than just sending mail. They're used for account ids on
>websites,
>account ids in source control systems, account ids in bug tracking
>systems,
>and much more. And in the ham world, using your callsign is perhaps a
>more
>common means of id than your name, so having callsign at amsat.org is an
>easy
>way for people to reach you. (No doubt someone will mention @arrl.net
>as an
>alternative, but that requires membership in ARRL, and not everyone is,
>or
>wants to be, a member of that organisation.)
>
>Martin.
>KD6YAM
>
>
>On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 4:55 PM VA7KBM via AMSAT-BB
><amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>wrote:
>
>> Hi Joe,
>>
>> My apologies - I didn't mean to state the obvious, or make light of
>any
>> technical or operational difficulties with respect to email.
>>
>> Personally, I haven't used groups.io enough myself to either
>recommend
>> it or not recommend it, but I can imagine the tagging and group-like
>> features of groups.io might bridge the gap between those AMSAT
>members
>> who like traditional email lists and those who favour more of a
>> conference-like system. Other members may have had more in-depth with
>> groups.io or other systems and be prepared to champion one system
>over
>> another.
>>
>> Again, speaking personally, I would just phase-out the email aliasing
>> service.
>>
>> Thanks to you and everyone else at AMSAT for all your work!
>>
>> 73 Ken VA7KBM
>>
>> On 7/16/2020 9:54 AM, Joseph B. Fitzgerald wrote:
>> > Ken,  VA7KBM wrote:
>> >> ... AMSAT should consider a more modern email list system.
>> > Presently the IT crew is working on migrating our servers off the
>> existing Linux distribution which goes end-of-life in November to
>Ubuntu
>> 20.04 LTS.    This will result in a change to GNU Mailman 3.0 ...
>more
>> modern but not exactly a quantum leap.   Now would be a great time
>for a
>> fleshed out proposal for something else since it would be hard on the
>users
>> to switch again in another year or whatever.   I have looked at
>groups.io
>> a little bit in the past, and it seems to be run by "good guys".   
>Don't
>> wait for "AMSAT" to consider alternatives, you guys are AMSAT, so put
>> together a good proposal and convince people.
>> >
>> >> ... It's generally not a good idea
>> >> for most small organizations to run their own email servers these
>days -
>> >> too much security and technical overhead, and who needs that?
>> > I surely don't need that and I am one of they guys that directly
>deals
>> with that overhead.   That being said, an issue that trips me up
>every time
>> I look at having someone else run things is the e-mail alias service
>we
>> provide to anyone with a callsign.    We have somewhere around 16,000
>users
>> of that service and I know of no economically viable way to do that
>except
>> on our own servers.
>> >
>> > de KM1P Joe
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>> Subscription settings:
>https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From howied231 at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 21 04:53:55 2020
From: howied231 at hotmail.com (Howie DeFelice)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 04:53:55 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Elections HEO QO-100' Linear NB + Digital WB
In-Reply-To: <f0f7545a-672a-0754-4172-fc9ffac0e797@leikhim.com>
References: <f0f7545a-672a-0754-4172-fc9ffac0e797@leikhim.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR14MB3517BFC04B88288D5C6DA16AE7780@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

Hello Joe,

I agree that a ride share, or hosted payload as it's referred to in the industry, would be an excellent way to get to GEO.  That said, the realities are very different than they were for QO-100. The host satellite for QO-100 is owned by a state run (or sponsored) entity. They don't have shareholders and corporate governance to deal with. This does not mean an amateur radio payload would be excluded from a satellite over the U.S., it just means we would have to pay our way. Just like QO-100, we would be required to let the spacecraft provider or other certified entity manufacture and test the payload. This all adds additional expense. If we had a compelling proposal for a payload that proved technology that might also be useful to the satellite operator, like the P4 regenerative digital transponder, there is a CHANCE we could get some subsidy. Commercial satellite operators are extremely risk adverse and even more budget conscious. The market rates are always moving and it has been a long time since this alternative has been considered. Bob McGuire, Jeff John's and myself are committed to evaluate ALL avenues to higher orbit.

Howie AB2S
________________________________
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> on behalf of Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 3:31:10 PM
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Elections HEO QO-100' Linear NB + Digital WB

K4SAT here.

I am intrigued about QO-100 and have monitored it here in Florida by
remote WEB SDR access. I have not been active in the years since AO-40
failed and have been eager to see some HEO operations like I enjoyed
from AO-10 and AO-13. Listening to QO-100 has rekindled that interest.

Last month on AMSAT-BB I posed the question about getting a GEO ride
share with a commercial satellite, something that was considered 12
years ago with Intelsat. Having a QO-100 type transponder here CONUS
would grow the hobby and get folks like me active again (and
contributing sums as I did for AO-40). However, the "old guard" shot my
idea down for the usual reasons. (See my threads last month).

Having a QO-100 type transponder with a hybrid of narrow band linear
side and wide band digital side would open up a lot of opportunities for
operations, public service and experimentation.   I hope the new "slate"
of BOD will consider this type of project as a priority.

Personally, I think GOLF has not achieved results fast enough to getting
us a larger footprint. I am not advocating scrapping of that effort, but
sometimes you have to jump ahead of the project and grab what is needed.

73 Joe

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From rhyolite at leikhim.com  Tue Jul 21 06:40:54 2020
From: rhyolite at leikhim.com (Joe Leikhim)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 02:40:54 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Elections HEO QO-100' Linear NB + Digital WB
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR14MB3517BFC04B88288D5C6DA16AE7780@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <f0f7545a-672a-0754-4172-fc9ffac0e797@leikhim.com>
	<MN2PR14MB3517BFC04B88288D5C6DA16AE7780@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <712dd5be-9641-b286-f8c2-4b53de9580ba@leikhim.com>

Howie;

Bill Tynan kicked this idea around 12 years ago as a distinct 
possibility with Intelsat. See below:


Blast from past 12 years ago....the entire thread of course is nearly a 
rehash of today's. So just the POSITIVE Bits. What happened?


      [eagle] Re: what is going on?, some technical content at last.

    *Bill Tynan*  
         btynan at beecreek.net
    <mailto:eagle%40amsat.org?Subject=%5Beagle%5D%20Re%3A%20what%20is%20going%20on%3F%2C%20some%20technical%20content%20at%20last.&In-Reply-To=>

         /Fri Jul 11 07:52:51 PDT 2008/

    "Drew, Bob and All:

    I have been thinking along the same lines for some time, but being no more
    than a "Senior Advisor" (geezer) I have not chosen to voice my views widely.
    *_Most hams want linear transponder, high altitude satellites. Very
    few are yet into digital anything._*

    Yes, AMSAT should be in the forefront of technology, but to do so, it must
    be here. To be here, it must have the support (money) of the ham community.

    We can still make a very good case for emergency commutations with a
    spacecraft which is in there 24/7 (Rideshare) even if it is only an analog
    transponder. With moderate bandwidth, that analog transponder can be used
    for at least low rate digital communication by ground stations. So, still
    pictures and medical data can be exchanged through it.

    So, let's get to it.

    That means fundraising. I have seen very little effort in that direction.
    Have fat cats been solicited? What about the guy (can't remember his name)
    who spent $20,000,000 to visit the ISS for a week. It would seem that he is
    a prime candidate. Has he been contacted?

    Has FEMA been solicited re the potential Rideshare offers?

    It's up to the AMSAT leadership to make such solicitations.

    *_We raised $2,000,000 here in North America for P3D. We should be
    able to do it again, despite the AO-40 disaster._*

    These are my thoughts.

    73,

    Bill Tynan, W3XO, LM-10
    AMSAT President 1991 - 1998"


On 7/21/2020 12:53 AM, Howie DeFelice wrote:
> Hello Joe,
>
> I agree that a ride share, or hosted payload as it's referred to in 
> the industry, would be an excellent way to get to GEO.? That said, the 
> realities are very different than they were for QO-100. The host 
> satellite for QO-100 is owned by a state run (or sponsored) entity. 
> They don't have shareholders and corporate governance to deal with. 
> This does not mean an amateur radio payload would be excluded from a 
> satellite over the U.S., it just means we would have to pay our way. 
> Just like QO-100, we would be required to let the spacecraft provider 
> or other certified entity manufacture and test the payload. This all 
> adds additional expense. If we had a compelling proposal for a payload 
> that proved technology that might also be useful to the satellite 
> operator, like the P4 regenerative digital transponder, there is a 
> CHANCE we could get some subsidy. Commercial satellite operators are 
> extremely risk adverse and even more budget conscious. The market 
> rates are always moving and it has been a long time since this 
> alternative has been considered. Bob McGuire, Jeff John's and myself 
> are committed to evaluate ALL avenues to higher orbit.
>
> Howie AB2S
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> on behalf of Joe Leikhim 
> via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 19, 2020 3:31:10 PM
> *To:* amsat-bb at amsat.org <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> *Subject:* [amsat-bb] Elections HEO QO-100' Linear NB + Digital WB
> K4SAT here.
>
> I am intrigued about QO-100 and have monitored it here in Florida by
> remote WEB SDR access. I have not been active in the years since AO-40
> failed and have been eager to see some HEO operations like I enjoyed
> from AO-10 and AO-13. Listening to QO-100 has rekindled that interest.
>
> Last month on AMSAT-BB I posed the question about getting a GEO ride
> share with a commercial satellite, something that was considered 12
> years ago with Intelsat. Having a QO-100 type transponder here CONUS
> would grow the hobby and get folks like me active again (and
> contributing sums as I did for AO-40). However, the "old guard" shot my
> idea down for the usual reasons. (See my threads last month).
>
> Having a QO-100 type transponder with a hybrid of narrow band linear
> side and wide band digital side would open up a lot of opportunities for
> operations, public service and experimentation.?? I hope the new "slate"
> of BOD will consider this type of project as a priority.
>
> Personally, I think GOLF has not achieved results fast enough to getting
> us a larger footprint. I am not advocating scrapping of that effort, but
> sometimes you have to jump ahead of the project and grab what is needed.
>
> 73 Joe
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. 
> Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views 
> of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb 
> <https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb>
>
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 
> 	Virus-free. www.avg.com 
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 
>
>
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

-- 
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

JLeikhim at Leikhim.com

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM


From howied231 at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 21 10:56:22 2020
From: howied231 at hotmail.com (Howie DeFelice)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 10:56:22 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Elections HEO QO-100' Linear NB + Digital WB
In-Reply-To: <712dd5be-9641-b286-f8c2-4b53de9580ba@leikhim.com>
References: <f0f7545a-672a-0754-4172-fc9ffac0e797@leikhim.com>
	<MN2PR14MB3517BFC04B88288D5C6DA16AE7780@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>,
	<712dd5be-9641-b286-f8c2-4b53de9580ba@leikhim.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR14MB3517642671013610148975FAE7780@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

If Bill was still around I would ask him, I do miss him. There may be some details in the corporate records but as an alternate board member I don't have access to those archives. Perhaps some of the current board can provide the details. My memory of what I heard was that Intelsat treated the request as a commercial RFQ and we got the commercial price that was many times the cost to orbit AO-40. Any new HEO satellite is going to require huge amounts of money no matter what. The ability to raise funds will be the MOST IMPORTANT part of getting a HEO satellite launched. Anybody who says different does not know what they are talking about.

Howie AB2S
________________________________
From: Joe Leikhim <rhyolite at leikhim.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 2:40:54 AM
To: Howie DeFelice <howied231 at hotmail.com>; AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Elections HEO QO-100' Linear NB + Digital WB


Howie;

Bill Tynan kicked this idea around 12 years ago as a distinct possibility with Intelsat. See below:


Blast from past 12 years ago....the entire thread of course is nearly a rehash of today's. So just the POSITIVE Bits. What happened?

[eagle] Re: what is going on?, some technical content at last.

Bill Tynan
    btynan at beecreek.net
       <mailto:eagle%40amsat.org?Subject=%5Beagle%5D%20Re%3A%20what%20is%20going%20on%3F%2C%20some%20technical%20content%20at%20last.&In-Reply-To=>

    Fri Jul 11 07:52:51 PDT 2008

"Drew, Bob and All:

I have been thinking along the same lines for some time, but being no more
than a "Senior Advisor" (geezer) I have not chosen to voice my views widely.

Most hams want linear transponder, high altitude satellites. Very few are
yet into digital anything.

Yes, AMSAT should be in the forefront of technology, but to do so, it must
be here. To be here, it must have the support (money) of the ham community.

We can still make a very good case for emergency commutations with a
spacecraft which is in there 24/7 (Rideshare) even if it is only an analog
transponder. With moderate bandwidth, that analog transponder can be used
for at least low rate digital communication by ground stations. So, still
pictures and medical data can be exchanged through it.

So, let's get to it.

That means fundraising. I have seen very little effort in that direction.
Have fat cats been solicited? What about the guy (can't remember his name)
who spent $20,000,000 to visit the ISS for a week. It would seem that he is
a prime candidate. Has he been contacted?

Has FEMA been solicited re the potential Rideshare offers?

It's up to the AMSAT leadership to make such solicitations.

We raised $2,000,000 here in North America for P3D. We should be able to do
it again, despite the AO-40 disaster.

These are my thoughts.

73,

Bill Tynan, W3XO, LM-10
AMSAT President 1991 - 1998"

On 7/21/2020 12:53 AM, Howie DeFelice wrote:
Hello Joe,

I agree that a ride share, or hosted payload as it's referred to in the industry, would be an excellent way to get to GEO.  That said, the realities are very different than they were for QO-100. The host satellite for QO-100 is owned by a state run (or sponsored) entity. They don't have shareholders and corporate governance to deal with. This does not mean an amateur radio payload would be excluded from a satellite over the U.S., it just means we would have to pay our way. Just like QO-100, we would be required to let the spacecraft provider or other certified entity manufacture and test the payload. This all adds additional expense. If we had a compelling proposal for a payload that proved technology that might also be useful to the satellite operator, like the P4 regenerative digital transponder, there is a CHANCE we could get some subsidy. Commercial satellite operators are extremely risk adverse and even more budget conscious. The market rates are always moving and it has been a long time since this alternative has been considered. Bob McGuire, Jeff John's and myself are committed to evaluate ALL avenues to higher orbit.

Howie AB2S
________________________________
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org><mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> on behalf of Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org><mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 3:31:10 PM
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org<mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org> <amsat-bb at amsat.org><mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Elections HEO QO-100' Linear NB + Digital WB

K4SAT here.

I am intrigued about QO-100 and have monitored it here in Florida by
remote WEB SDR access. I have not been active in the years since AO-40
failed and have been eager to see some HEO operations like I enjoyed
from AO-10 and AO-13. Listening to QO-100 has rekindled that interest.

Last month on AMSAT-BB I posed the question about getting a GEO ride
share with a commercial satellite, something that was considered 12
years ago with Intelsat. Having a QO-100 type transponder here CONUS
would grow the hobby and get folks like me active again (and
contributing sums as I did for AO-40). However, the "old guard" shot my
idea down for the usual reasons. (See my threads last month).

Having a QO-100 type transponder with a hybrid of narrow band linear
side and wide band digital side would open up a lot of opportunities for
operations, public service and experimentation.   I hope the new "slate"
of BOD will consider this type of project as a priority.

Personally, I think GOLF has not achieved results fast enough to getting
us a larger footprint. I am not advocating scrapping of that effort, but
sometimes you have to jump ahead of the project and grab what is needed.

73 Joe

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org<mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amsat.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Famsat-bb&data=02%7C01%7C%7C398b0b29752642cbfc5308d82d40fd2c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637309104434389427&sdata=c2C%2BnE3Ih7q3fifOAmzQaTowhbqz%2F1DtuGf%2Bt3U3KTA%3D&reserved=0>

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--
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

JLeikhim at Leikhim.com<mailto:JLeikhim at Leikhim.com>

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.leikhim.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C398b0b29752642cbfc5308d82d40fd2c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637309104434434356&sdata=GSPvhIXjc8tgo8nYGzeDl8Jx2dG6U2alk8HrNTwM2Tg%3D&reserved=0>

From n8fgv at usa.net  Tue Jul 21 03:32:32 2020
From: n8fgv at usa.net (Daniel Schultz)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 23:32:32 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Elections HEO QO-100' Linear NB + Digital WB
Message-ID: <341yguDfG4128Set.1595302352@web13.cms.usa.net>

Yes, we once had a deal with Intelsat until it fell through. More recently we
had a deal with the US Air Force and one of its contractors, until that also
fell through. The reason we don't have a western hemisphere transponder in GEO
is not because the "old guard" wants to shoot it down, but because these types
of deals are very difficult to pull off in a market driven economy such as the
US satellite industry.

QO-100 was hosted on a satellite built for a royal government which is not
responsible to stockholders, a government in which an amateur radio operator
held a high position of influence. A US based company would have to answer to
Wall Street analysts to explain why they are giving away money that could have
been paid out in stock dividends. 

Changing the BOD membership will not alter any of these facts. It is not
because we haven't asked the powers that be, and not because we are reluctant
to "jump ahead of the project and grab what is needed". Space is Hard, and all
the wishful thinking in the world is not going to change that. 

73, Dan Schultz N8FGV

> I am intrigued about QO-100 and have monitored it here in Florida by 
> remote WEB SDR access. I have not been active in the years since AO-40 
> failed and have been eager to see some HEO operations like I enjoyed 
> from AO-10 and AO-13. Listening to QO-100 has rekindled that interest.
>
> Last month on AMSAT-BB I posed the question about getting a GEO ride 
> share with a commercial satellite, something that was considered 12 
> years ago with Intelsat. Having a QO-100 type transponder here CONUS 
> would grow the hobby and get folks like me active again (and 
> contributing sums as I did for AO-40). However, the "old guard" shot 
> my idea down for the usual reasons. (See my threads last month).
>
> Having a QO-100 type transponder with a hybrid of narrow band linear 
> side and wide band digital side would open up a lot of opportunities 
> for operations, public service and experimentation.?? I hope the new 
> "slate" of BOD will consider this type of project as a priority.
>
> Personally, I think GOLF has not achieved results fast enough to 
> getting us a larger footprint. I am not advocating scrapping of that 
> effort, but sometimes you have to jump ahead of the project and grab 
> what is needed.
>
> 73 Joe


From tjschuessler at verizon.net  Tue Jul 21 13:21:49 2020
From: tjschuessler at verizon.net (tjschuessler at verizon.net)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 08:21:49 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] FW: Expo Contact Form Message
In-Reply-To: <CAOSPJR6v+u=DxRm982o3JXXSONgvyZHDsafMzZpvwmaiqwm4xw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOSPJR6kMq-i7Ex-F2rym3WdwKAvtPk_4zLWXa7NnEhZSpJyWw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOSPJR6v+u=DxRm982o3JXXSONgvyZHDsafMzZpvwmaiqwm4xw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007f01d65f61$e4bd0e70$ae372b50$@verizon.net>

Hey guys, so there is this "Virtual Ham Radio Expo" on August 8th and 9th with a lot of exhibitors and a lot of virtual presenters.  I noted that there was no "Getting Started" type of satellite presentation.  I threw something out to the BB a week ago and aside from a response from Michelle, nothing else.

We are so caught up in our controversies, that we seem to be forgetting that there are a whole lot of people who just want to learn about this fascinating aspect of our hobby.  If we don't watch it, WE WILL DRIVE THEM AWAY FROM THE ORGANIZATION!

Read Eric's email below.  I am not the guy to produce a compelling "Getting Started" video, but I would like to work with someone who thinks they have one, and I would partner with them for the Q and A sessions.  The deadline here is Saturday of this week.

Lets make this happen!

From: Eric 4Z1UG <eric at qsotoday.com> 
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 11:40 PM
To: tjschuessler at verizon.net
Subject: Re: Expo Contact Form Message

Dear Thomas, 

You are right, there is no AMSAT representation in this Expo this time around.  AMSAT does not have a booth, and none of the potential speakers replied to my invitations.  

If you have an excellent 20 to 30 minute video about AMSAT that you can send to me before Saturday, I will include it into a speaker Slot and give you a Q&A spot just after its first showing.  Otherwise, we will do this again in March 2021 and hopefully someone from AMSAT will contact me. 


73, 

Eric, 4Z1UG


Eric Guth
Tel: +1-213-577-0091
http://www.qsotoday.com
http://www.qsotodayhamexpo.com



On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 5:36 AM <mailto:eric at qsotoday.com> wrote:
I am an AMSAT member and part of the Ambassadors program who take AMSAT presentations to hamests and clubs.  I noted that there are NO presentations relating to Amateur Radio in Space except the one on QO-100.  Unfortunately, that is a satellite opportunity not available to western hemisphere stations.  I sent an email out to the AMSAT mail reflextor and got no direct response from anyone else interested in presenting for your event.  Is it too late to get presentation slots?  I would like to do an Intro to satellites presentation.  Please let me know if someone else has approached yo about this.  If so, that is fine, but I see nothign in your topics list and so would be willing to put myself forward to do it.  Looking forward to hearing from you.

Thomas Schuessler  N5HYP
2144031464


From howied231 at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 21 14:28:20 2020
From: howied231 at hotmail.com (Howie DeFelice)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 14:28:20 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Elections HEO QO-100' Linear NB + Digital WB
In-Reply-To: <341yguDfG4128Set.1595302352@web13.cms.usa.net>
References: <341yguDfG4128Set.1595302352@web13.cms.usa.net>
Message-ID: <MN2PR14MB35171054750288CA2C504B16E7780@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

Dan, I agree with you completely that the reality of the market is not going to change and we can't expect a hand out like QO-100 got. We can change how we pursue our goal in light of the existing conditions. To do that requires a change in leadership that is willing to make hard decisions that may not be popular at first but necessary in the long term.

At the 2014 Symposium, Jan King gave a inspiring talk about the ways to get to HEO which he followed up with a special meeting the following day with the AMSAT president. You were there Dan. This meeting layed out a proposal for a 6U cubesat in a GTO orbit. The meeting was attended by some of the most experienced engineering talent ever to be part of AMSAT. The pitch was made and rejected by the board. Many of these people are still on the board. The majority of that talent has left in frustration and six years later we are trying to catch up to where we were 20 years ago. It's the old definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Howie
________________________________
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> on behalf of Daniel Schultz via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 11:32:32 PM
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Elections HEO QO-100' Linear NB + Digital WB

Yes, we once had a deal with Intelsat until it fell through. More recently we
had a deal with the US Air Force and one of its contractors, until that also
fell through. The reason we don't have a western hemisphere transponder in GEO
is not because the "old guard" wants to shoot it down, but because these types
of deals are very difficult to pull off in a market driven economy such as the
US satellite industry.

QO-100 was hosted on a satellite built for a royal government which is not
responsible to stockholders, a government in which an amateur radio operator
held a high position of influence. A US based company would have to answer to
Wall Street analysts to explain why they are giving away money that could have
been paid out in stock dividends.

Changing the BOD membership will not alter any of these facts. It is not
because we haven't asked the powers that be, and not because we are reluctant
to "jump ahead of the project and grab what is needed". Space is Hard, and all
the wishful thinking in the world is not going to change that.

73, Dan Schultz N8FGV

> I am intrigued about QO-100 and have monitored it here in Florida by
> remote WEB SDR access. I have not been active in the years since AO-40
> failed and have been eager to see some HEO operations like I enjoyed
> from AO-10 and AO-13. Listening to QO-100 has rekindled that interest.
>
> Last month on AMSAT-BB I posed the question about getting a GEO ride
> share with a commercial satellite, something that was considered 12
> years ago with Intelsat. Having a QO-100 type transponder here CONUS
> would grow the hobby and get folks like me active again (and
> contributing sums as I did for AO-40). However, the "old guard" shot
> my idea down for the usual reasons. (See my threads last month).
>
> Having a QO-100 type transponder with a hybrid of narrow band linear
> side and wide band digital side would open up a lot of opportunities
> for operations, public service and experimentation.?? I hope the new
> "slate" of BOD will consider this type of project as a priority.
>
> Personally, I think GOLF has not achieved results fast enough to
> getting us a larger footprint. I am not advocating scrapping of that
> effort, but sometimes you have to jump ahead of the project and grab
> what is needed.
>
> 73 Joe

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From brennanprice at verizon.net  Tue Jul 21 14:43:41 2020
From: brennanprice at verizon.net (Brennan Price)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 14:43:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Because I am being asked
References: <329555957.4128514.1595342621290.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <329555957.4128514.1595342621290@mail.yahoo.com>

Out of necessity to determine a fixed voter list and in accordance with previous announcements, the voter list was invariantly determined on the basis of memberships in good standing on July 1. Membership in good standing on that date is the criterion I will use in determining whether to issue replacement or original ballots.

73,
Brennan Price, N4QX
Secretary, Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation

From k8tl at earthlink.net  Tue Jul 21 14:55:20 2020
From: k8tl at earthlink.net (Tom Lubbers K8TL)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 10:55:20 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: [amsat-bb] SSB Electronics
Message-ID: <885298534.2548.1595343321447@wamui-aurora.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Has SSB electronics went belly up?  All of my recent attempts end up at dead ends.  A few weeks ago I saw some inquiries about the FUN CUBE dongle.  I have 2 of them sitting here gathering dust!!
Stay safe and healthy.
Tom K8TL

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Tue Jul 21 14:58:18 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 09:58:18 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Because I am being asked
In-Reply-To: <329555957.4128514.1595342621290@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <329555957.4128514.1595342621290.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<329555957.4128514.1595342621290@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <901f8e60-b912-a524-f8fa-717e73014f89@pobox.com>

On 07/21/20 09:43, Brennan Price via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Out of necessity to determine a fixed voter list and in accordance with previous announcements, the voter list was invariantly determined on the basis of memberships in good standing on July 1. Membership in good standing on that date is the criterion I will use in determining whether to issue replacement or original ballots.

Hello Brennan-

Is there a mechanism whereby a voter could check that their ballot was 
received by AMSAT? This would not include the choices on the ballot, 
just that it was received.

I imagine this could be part of the launch.amsat.org interface, but I 
don't really know.

If not for this year, could this be implemented for the next voting season?

Thanks,

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From n8hm at arrl.net  Tue Jul 21 14:58:28 2020
From: n8hm at arrl.net (Paul Stoetzer)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 10:58:28 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Elections HEO QO-100' Linear NB + Digital WB
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR14MB35171054750288CA2C504B16E7780@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <341yguDfG4128Set.1595302352@web13.cms.usa.net>
	<MN2PR14MB35171054750288CA2C504B16E7780@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CABzOSOr7nw+vq+R1_y=GJqsOWeLLKqQnMb6Vr3hhib+gZrLqTA@mail.gmail.com>

Howie,

I believe your premise that the pitch was outright rejected by the
Board is misleading. Although their proposal to submit for a CSLI
launch in November 2014 was not adopted at the time, we have adopted
the approach of returning to HEO through a CubeSat in GTO through the
GOLF program. We have many talented engineers working on that project.
I believe that work on that project has progressed to such a point
where we can make a big push to execute this within the next few
years. As a Director, I will push for an aggressive fundraising
program to make this happen.

Unfortunately some have proposed canceling the GOLF program, including
one Director who nominated you. This would be a disastrous mistake
that would scuttle both our relationship with NASA and all the
progress our excellent engineering team has made over the past three
years.

73,

Paul Stoetzer, N8HM
Executive Vice President
AMSAT

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 10:29 AM Howie DeFelice via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Dan, I agree with you completely that the reality of the market is not going to change and we can't expect a hand out like QO-100 got. We can change how we pursue our goal in light of the existing conditions. To do that requires a change in leadership that is willing to make hard decisions that may not be popular at first but necessary in the long term.
>
> At the 2014 Symposium, Jan King gave a inspiring talk about the ways to get to HEO which he followed up with a special meeting the following day with the AMSAT president. You were there Dan. This meeting layed out a proposal for a 6U cubesat in a GTO orbit. The meeting was attended by some of the most experienced engineering talent ever to be part of AMSAT. The pitch was made and rejected by the board. Many of these people are still on the board. The majority of that talent has left in frustration and six years later we are trying to catch up to where we were 20 years ago. It's the old definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
>
> Howie
> ________________________________
> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> on behalf of Daniel Schultz via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 11:32:32 PM
> To: amsat-bb at amsat.org <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Elections HEO QO-100' Linear NB + Digital WB
>
> Yes, we once had a deal with Intelsat until it fell through. More recently we
> had a deal with the US Air Force and one of its contractors, until that also
> fell through. The reason we don't have a western hemisphere transponder in GEO
> is not because the "old guard" wants to shoot it down, but because these types
> of deals are very difficult to pull off in a market driven economy such as the
> US satellite industry.
>
> QO-100 was hosted on a satellite built for a royal government which is not
> responsible to stockholders, a government in which an amateur radio operator
> held a high position of influence. A US based company would have to answer to
> Wall Street analysts to explain why they are giving away money that could have
> been paid out in stock dividends.
>
> Changing the BOD membership will not alter any of these facts. It is not
> because we haven't asked the powers that be, and not because we are reluctant
> to "jump ahead of the project and grab what is needed". Space is Hard, and all
> the wishful thinking in the world is not going to change that.
>
> 73, Dan Schultz N8FGV
>
> > I am intrigued about QO-100 and have monitored it here in Florida by
> > remote WEB SDR access. I have not been active in the years since AO-40
> > failed and have been eager to see some HEO operations like I enjoyed
> > from AO-10 and AO-13. Listening to QO-100 has rekindled that interest.
> >
> > Last month on AMSAT-BB I posed the question about getting a GEO ride
> > share with a commercial satellite, something that was considered 12
> > years ago with Intelsat. Having a QO-100 type transponder here CONUS
> > would grow the hobby and get folks like me active again (and
> > contributing sums as I did for AO-40). However, the "old guard" shot
> > my idea down for the usual reasons. (See my threads last month).
> >
> > Having a QO-100 type transponder with a hybrid of narrow band linear
> > side and wide band digital side would open up a lot of opportunities
> > for operations, public service and experimentation.?? I hope the new
> > "slate" of BOD will consider this type of project as a priority.
> >
> > Personally, I think GOLF has not achieved results fast enough to
> > getting us a larger footprint. I am not advocating scrapping of that
> > effort, but sometimes you have to jump ahead of the project and grab
> > what is needed.
> >
> > 73 Joe
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Tue Jul 21 15:36:22 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 08:36:22 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Elections HEO QO-100' Linear NB + Digital WB
In-Reply-To: <CABzOSOr7nw+vq+R1_y=GJqsOWeLLKqQnMb6Vr3hhib+gZrLqTA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <341yguDfG4128Set.1595302352@web13.cms.usa.net>
	<MN2PR14MB35171054750288CA2C504B16E7780@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
	<CABzOSOr7nw+vq+R1_y=GJqsOWeLLKqQnMb6Vr3hhib+gZrLqTA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2XNVgwRju4GXNJ4wJSHdSNEGJene++adppo=swruhE2dg@mail.gmail.com>

No one has proposed cancelling GOLF.

Howie has been a board alternate over the past year, and knows that what
you have said is not true.

We can afford to fully fund either the office and an employee, or fully
fund GOLF, if and only if we save some significant money by digitizing the
Journal. I presented a paper about this to the board in early spring.

Without any board meetings, there have been no proposals since the motions
made in March about the bylaws committee (hasn?t met yet), formal support
of AREx by AMSAT, and the PPP loan.

If there had been a proposal to cancel GOLF you better believe it would be
in the minutes, and If it had come from me then I would have written an
article about it for the Journal with a solid alternative replacement and a
funding plan.

The board did indeed reject the proposal Howie is talking about. It
disappointed a lot of people.

-Michelle W5NYV

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 08:19 Paul Stoetzer via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Howie,
>
> I believe your premise that the pitch was outright rejected by the
> Board is misleading. Although their proposal to submit for a CSLI
> launch in November 2014 was not adopted at the time, we have adopted
> the approach of returning to HEO through a CubeSat in GTO through the
> GOLF program. We have many talented engineers working on that project.
> I believe that work on that project has progressed to such a point
> where we can make a big push to execute this within the next few
> years. As a Director, I will push for an aggressive fundraising
> program to make this happen.
>
> Unfortunately some have proposed canceling the GOLF program, including
> one Director who nominated you. This would be a disastrous mistake
> that would scuttle both our relationship with NASA and all the
> progress our excellent engineering team has made over the past three
> years.
>
> 73,
>
> Paul Stoetzer, N8HM
> Executive Vice President
> AMSAT
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 10:29 AM Howie DeFelice via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > Dan, I agree with you completely that the reality of the market is not
> going to change and we can't expect a hand out like QO-100 got. We can
> change how we pursue our goal in light of the existing conditions. To do
> that requires a change in leadership that is willing to make hard decisions
> that may not be popular at first but necessary in the long term.
> >
> > At the 2014 Symposium, Jan King gave a inspiring talk about the ways to
> get to HEO which he followed up with a special meeting the following day
> with the AMSAT president. You were there Dan. This meeting layed out a
> proposal for a 6U cubesat in a GTO orbit. The meeting was attended by some
> of the most experienced engineering talent ever to be part of AMSAT. The
> pitch was made and rejected by the board. Many of these people are still on
> the board. The majority of that talent has left in frustration and six
> years later we are trying to catch up to where we were 20 years ago. It's
> the old definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and
> expecting different results.
> >
> > Howie
> > ________________________________
> > From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> on behalf of Daniel Schultz
> via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 11:32:32 PM
> > To: amsat-bb at amsat.org <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Elections HEO QO-100' Linear NB + Digital WB
> >
> > Yes, we once had a deal with Intelsat until it fell through. More
> recently we
> > had a deal with the US Air Force and one of its contractors, until that
> also
> > fell through. The reason we don't have a western hemisphere transponder
> in GEO
> > is not because the "old guard" wants to shoot it down, but because these
> types
> > of deals are very difficult to pull off in a market driven economy such
> as the
> > US satellite industry.
> >
> > QO-100 was hosted on a satellite built for a royal government which is
> not
> > responsible to stockholders, a government in which an amateur radio
> operator
> > held a high position of influence. A US based company would have to
> answer to
> > Wall Street analysts to explain why they are giving away money that
> could have
> > been paid out in stock dividends.
> >
> > Changing the BOD membership will not alter any of these facts. It is not
> > because we haven't asked the powers that be, and not because we are
> reluctant
> > to "jump ahead of the project and grab what is needed". Space is Hard,
> and all
> > the wishful thinking in the world is not going to change that.
> >
> > 73, Dan Schultz N8FGV
> >
> > > I am intrigued about QO-100 and have monitored it here in Florida by
> > > remote WEB SDR access. I have not been active in the years since AO-40
> > > failed and have been eager to see some HEO operations like I enjoyed
> > > from AO-10 and AO-13. Listening to QO-100 has rekindled that interest.
> > >
> > > Last month on AMSAT-BB I posed the question about getting a GEO ride
> > > share with a commercial satellite, something that was considered 12
> > > years ago with Intelsat. Having a QO-100 type transponder here CONUS
> > > would grow the hobby and get folks like me active again (and
> > > contributing sums as I did for AO-40). However, the "old guard" shot
> > > my idea down for the usual reasons. (See my threads last month).
> > >
> > > Having a QO-100 type transponder with a hybrid of narrow band linear
> > > side and wide band digital side would open up a lot of opportunities
> > > for operations, public service and experimentation.?? I hope the new
> > > "slate" of BOD will consider this type of project as a priority.
> > >
> > > Personally, I think GOLF has not achieved results fast enough to
> > > getting us a larger footprint. I am not advocating scrapping of that
> > > effort, but sometimes you have to jump ahead of the project and grab
> > > what is needed.
> > >
> > > 73 Joe
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
-- 
-Michelle W5NYV

"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."

From bruce at perens.com  Tue Jul 21 15:44:26 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 08:44:26 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] SSB Electronics
In-Reply-To: <885298534.2548.1595343321447@wamui-aurora.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <885298534.2548.1595343321447@wamui-aurora.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOs8zjf5odHNiOU=1mu9W-wkxENLGCa9vEraPuLZ4VyEgg@mail.gmail.com>

They moved the business to Germany.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 7:58 AM Tom Lubbers K8TL via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Has SSB electronics went belly up?  All of my recent attempts end up at
> dead ends.  A few weeks ago I saw some inquiries about the FUN CUBE
> dongle.  I have 2 of them sitting here gathering dust!!
> Stay safe and healthy.
> Tom K8TL
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From seb at wintek.com  Tue Jul 21 15:52:22 2020
From: seb at wintek.com (Stephen  E. Belter)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 15:52:22 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] SSB Electronics
In-Reply-To: <885298534.2548.1595343321447@wamui-aurora.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <885298534.2548.1595343321447@wamui-aurora.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <7C186D29-FF99-46A3-BEE3-01DBF295A505@wintek.com>

Tom,

No.  The manufacturers of preamps and other electronics for satellite and EME amateur radio is alive and well.  They are in Germany and can be found at https://www.ssb.de .

For many years, their products were sold in the USA by Gerry Rodski of SSB Electronic USA.  I know Gerry's wife had a stroke and that Gerry has cut back his sales and service activity.

You can still buy SSB-Electronic GmbH products from HRO at https://www.hamradio.com .

73, Steve N9IP
-- 
Steve Belter, seb at wintek.com
 

?On 7/21/20, 10:59 AM, "AMSAT-BB on behalf of Tom Lubbers K8TL via AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org on behalf of amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

    Has SSB electronics went belly up?  All of my recent attempts end up at dead ends.  A few weeks ago I saw some inquiries about the FUN CUBE dongle.  I have 2 of them sitting here gathering dust!!
    Stay safe and healthy.
    Tom K8TL
    _______________________________________________
    Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
    to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
    are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
    Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
    Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From brennanprice at verizon.net  Tue Jul 21 16:46:02 2020
From: brennanprice at verizon.net (Brennan Price)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 16:46:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Nominations, for the record
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7938.1595345816.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.7938.1595345816.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <1928377085.4203551.1595349962380@mail.yahoo.com>

With respect to Paul's comment regarding one of Howie DeFelice's presumed nominators:
"Unfortunately some have proposed canceling the GOLF program, includingone Director who nominated you."
Beyond the extent necessary to support my determinations about any candidate's eligibility to be nominated or serve, I have not disclosed who nominated whom. it was not necessary to make such a disclosure in Howie's case.??
Howie (and any candidate) may disclose who nominated him if he wishes, and nominators may disclose their nominations if they wish as well. I will not micromanage that process, but I do want to stress that eligibility of the candidates has been determined with finality.?
73,Brennan Price, N4QXSecretary, Radio Amateur?

From w9gb at icloud.com  Tue Jul 21 16:48:20 2020
From: w9gb at icloud.com (Gregory Beat)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 11:48:20 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] SSB Electronics
Message-ID: <9A6AC271-B455-4AE6-821D-6BCAA1BE6E6F@icloud.com>

SSB-Electronic Gmb-pH
https://www.ssb.de/en/index?language=en

Annual Closing: Please note that we are closed from 27.07.2020 to 07.08.2020, 
we will be back from 10.08.2020. 
?
Are you referring about SSB Electronics USA ?
124 CHERRYWOOD DR
Mountain Top, PA
? Phone ( 570) 868-5643 

==
From: Tom Lubbers K8TL <k8tl at earthlink.net>
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] SSB Electronics

Has SSB electronics went belly up?  All of my recent attempts end up at dead ends.  A few weeks ago I saw some inquiries about the FUN CUBE dongle.  I have 2 of them sitting here gathering dust!!
Stay safe and healthy.
Tom K8TL



From aa9js.ham at gmail.com  Tue Jul 21 16:50:34 2020
From: aa9js.ham at gmail.com (Gary Smith)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 11:50:34 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] SSB Electronics
Message-ID: <CA+ELj1mroNhHuggEs2YgbOAhJZFsrqL3XFG-6kGLDpEgv2e+2A@mail.gmail.com>

Tom,

The gentleman who is/was running the US side of things has pretty much left
the business due to health issues for the foreseeable future.  When I
contacted him a couple of months ago he said to contact SSB Electronics in
Germany directly.  I dont think they offer any of the FUNcube dongles etc
that SSB USA did.  But they are very much still in business.

Cheers.

Gary AA9JS

From jean.marc.momple at gmail.com  Tue Jul 21 17:13:45 2020
From: jean.marc.momple at gmail.com (Jean Marc Momple)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 21:13:45 +0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Elections HEO QO-100' Linear NB + Digital WB
In-Reply-To: <341yguDfG4128Set.1595302352@web13.cms.usa.net>
References: <341yguDfG4128Set.1595302352@web13.cms.usa.net>
Message-ID: <9EAB6101-8F3A-47A4-9820-E62ED9C0E4EC@gmail.com>

Dan,

Agree that the context are different but the only way to achieve same is to work hard on it and without begging (as it seems that we do no have the money for either HEO or GEO) no way we may succeed.

That said, there are some possibilities and if we try hard enough we may succeed, the real issues are that the community as a whole does really work hard enough and we are probably not passionate enough to put the birds up there? Yes difficult but not impossible, may be US laws is a deterrent but we are global and other jurisdiction may be used.

QO-100 has made us to think globally or at least half of it, this is we way forward for both financing and putting birds up there. It we direct our effort in that direction (a global vision) we have more chances to succeed. So rethinking the HAM satellite strategy globally instead of thinking regionally may work out.

Just my 1 cent input.

73


Jean Marc (3B8DU)


> On Jul 21, 2020, at 7:32 AM, Daniel Schultz via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> Yes, we once had a deal with Intelsat until it fell through. More recently we
> had a deal with the US Air Force and one of its contractors, until that also
> fell through. The reason we don't have a western hemisphere transponder in GEO
> is not because the "old guard" wants to shoot it down, but because these types
> of deals are very difficult to pull off in a market driven economy such as the
> US satellite industry.
> 
> QO-100 was hosted on a satellite built for a royal government which is not
> responsible to stockholders, a government in which an amateur radio operator
> held a high position of influence. A US based company would have to answer to
> Wall Street analysts to explain why they are giving away money that could have
> been paid out in stock dividends. 
> 
> Changing the BOD membership will not alter any of these facts. It is not
> because we haven't asked the powers that be, and not because we are reluctant
> to "jump ahead of the project and grab what is needed". Space is Hard, and all
> the wishful thinking in the world is not going to change that. 
> 
> 73, Dan Schultz N8FGV
> 
>> I am intrigued about QO-100 and have monitored it here in Florida by 
>> remote WEB SDR access. I have not been active in the years since AO-40 
>> failed and have been eager to see some HEO operations like I enjoyed 
>> from AO-10 and AO-13. Listening to QO-100 has rekindled that interest.
>> 
>> Last month on AMSAT-BB I posed the question about getting a GEO ride 
>> share with a commercial satellite, something that was considered 12 
>> years ago with Intelsat. Having a QO-100 type transponder here CONUS 
>> would grow the hobby and get folks like me active again (and 
>> contributing sums as I did for AO-40). However, the "old guard" shot 
>> my idea down for the usual reasons. (See my threads last month).
>> 
>> Having a QO-100 type transponder with a hybrid of narrow band linear 
>> side and wide band digital side would open up a lot of opportunities 
>> for operations, public service and experimentation.?? I hope the new 
>> "slate" of BOD will consider this type of project as a priority.
>> 
>> Personally, I think GOLF has not achieved results fast enough to 
>> getting us a larger footprint. I am not advocating scrapping of that 
>> effort, but sometimes you have to jump ahead of the project and grab 
>> what is needed.
>> 
>> 73 Joe
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From hartzell at gmail.com  Tue Jul 21 20:33:27 2020
From: hartzell at gmail.com (Dave Hartzell)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 14:33:27 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] Elections HEO QO-100' Linear NB + Digital WB
In-Reply-To: <9EAB6101-8F3A-47A4-9820-E62ED9C0E4EC@gmail.com>
References: <341yguDfG4128Set.1595302352@web13.cms.usa.net>
	<9EAB6101-8F3A-47A4-9820-E62ED9C0E4EC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKKR=DEYzy_1gT5UJ7aptMe+0RaCZtnvgiqySY-wGC_Btao6Aw@mail.gmail.com>

Lots of interesting stuff going on with electric propulsion....  it may be
slow, but it's a cost effective way to raise an orbit.

https://www.enpulsion.com/technology/

Online ordering available!

Dave
ad0qe


On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 11:25 AM Jean Marc Momple via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Dan,
>
> Agree that the context are different but the only way to achieve same is
> to work hard on it and without begging (as it seems that we do no have the
> money for either HEO or GEO) no way we may succeed.
>
> That said, there are some possibilities and if we try hard enough we may
> succeed, the real issues are that the community as a whole does really work
> hard enough and we are probably not passionate enough to put the birds up
> there? Yes difficult but not impossible, may be US laws is a deterrent but
> we are global and other jurisdiction may be used.
>
> QO-100 has made us to think globally or at least half of it, this is we
> way forward for both financing and putting birds up there. It we direct our
> effort in that direction (a global vision) we have more chances to succeed.
> So rethinking the HAM satellite strategy globally instead of thinking
> regionally may work out.
>
> Just my 1 cent input.
>
> 73
>
>
> Jean Marc (3B8DU)
>
>
> > On Jul 21, 2020, at 7:32 AM, Daniel Schultz via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, we once had a deal with Intelsat until it fell through. More
> recently we
> > had a deal with the US Air Force and one of its contractors, until that
> also
> > fell through. The reason we don't have a western hemisphere transponder
> in GEO
> > is not because the "old guard" wants to shoot it down, but because these
> types
> > of deals are very difficult to pull off in a market driven economy such
> as the
> > US satellite industry.
> >
> > QO-100 was hosted on a satellite built for a royal government which is
> not
> > responsible to stockholders, a government in which an amateur radio
> operator
> > held a high position of influence. A US based company would have to
> answer to
> > Wall Street analysts to explain why they are giving away money that
> could have
> > been paid out in stock dividends.
> >
> > Changing the BOD membership will not alter any of these facts. It is not
> > because we haven't asked the powers that be, and not because we are
> reluctant
> > to "jump ahead of the project and grab what is needed". Space is Hard,
> and all
> > the wishful thinking in the world is not going to change that.
> >
> > 73, Dan Schultz N8FGV
> >
> >> I am intrigued about QO-100 and have monitored it here in Florida by
> >> remote WEB SDR access. I have not been active in the years since AO-40
> >> failed and have been eager to see some HEO operations like I enjoyed
> >> from AO-10 and AO-13. Listening to QO-100 has rekindled that interest.
> >>
> >> Last month on AMSAT-BB I posed the question about getting a GEO ride
> >> share with a commercial satellite, something that was considered 12
> >> years ago with Intelsat. Having a QO-100 type transponder here CONUS
> >> would grow the hobby and get folks like me active again (and
> >> contributing sums as I did for AO-40). However, the "old guard" shot
> >> my idea down for the usual reasons. (See my threads last month).
> >>
> >> Having a QO-100 type transponder with a hybrid of narrow band linear
> >> side and wide band digital side would open up a lot of opportunities
> >> for operations, public service and experimentation.?? I hope the new
> >> "slate" of BOD will consider this type of project as a priority.
> >>
> >> Personally, I think GOLF has not achieved results fast enough to
> >> getting us a larger footprint. I am not advocating scrapping of that
> >> effort, but sometimes you have to jump ahead of the project and grab
> >> what is needed.
> >>
> >> 73 Joe
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 21 20:43:17 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (GEO Badger)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 20:43:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Elections HEO QO-100' Linear NB + Digital WB
In-Reply-To: <CAKKR=DEYzy_1gT5UJ7aptMe+0RaCZtnvgiqySY-wGC_Btao6Aw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <341yguDfG4128Set.1595302352@web13.cms.usa.net>
	<9EAB6101-8F3A-47A4-9820-E62ED9C0E4EC@gmail.com>
	<CAKKR=DEYzy_1gT5UJ7aptMe+0RaCZtnvgiqySY-wGC_Btao6Aw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1988246739.5128889.1595364197842@mail.yahoo.com>

Get your IFM Nano Thruster, starting at $49K. It is cool though.
I like that they are thinking outside the box.---? 
 Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side??
73 de W3AB/GEO ??? 

 http://www.w3ab.org

You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out". 

    On Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 01:37:59 PM PDT, Dave Hartzell via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 Lots of interesting stuff going on with electric propulsion....? it may be
slow, but it's a cost effective way to raise an orbit.

https://www.enpulsion.com/technology/

Online ordering available!

Dave
ad0qe


On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 11:25 AM Jean Marc Momple via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Dan,
>
> Agree that the context are different but the only way to achieve same is
> to work hard on it and without begging (as it seems that we do no have the
> money for either HEO or GEO) no way we may succeed.
>
> That said, there are some possibilities and if we try hard enough we may
> succeed, the real issues are that the community as a whole does really work
> hard enough and we are probably not passionate enough to put the birds up
> there? Yes difficult but not impossible, may be US laws is a deterrent but
> we are global and other jurisdiction may be used.
>
> QO-100 has made us to think globally or at least half of it, this is we
> way forward for both financing and putting birds up there. It we direct our
> effort in that direction (a global vision) we have more chances to succeed.
> So rethinking the HAM satellite strategy globally instead of thinking
> regionally may work out.
>
> Just my 1 cent input.
>
> 73
>
>
> Jean Marc (3B8DU)
>
>
> > On Jul 21, 2020, at 7:32 AM, Daniel Schultz via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, we once had a deal with Intelsat until it fell through. More
> recently we
> > had a deal with the US Air Force and one of its contractors, until that
> also
> > fell through. The reason we don't have a western hemisphere transponder
> in GEO
> > is not because the "old guard" wants to shoot it down, but because these
> types
> > of deals are very difficult to pull off in a market driven economy such
> as the
> > US satellite industry.
> >
> > QO-100 was hosted on a satellite built for a royal government which is
> not
> > responsible to stockholders, a government in which an amateur radio
> operator
> > held a high position of influence. A US based company would have to
> answer to
> > Wall Street analysts to explain why they are giving away money that
> could have
> > been paid out in stock dividends.
> >
> > Changing the BOD membership will not alter any of these facts. It is not
> > because we haven't asked the powers that be, and not because we are
> reluctant
> > to "jump ahead of the project and grab what is needed". Space is Hard,
> and all
> > the wishful thinking in the world is not going to change that.
> >
> > 73, Dan Schultz N8FGV
> >
> >> I am intrigued about QO-100 and have monitored it here in Florida by
> >> remote WEB SDR access. I have not been active in the years since AO-40
> >> failed and have been eager to see some HEO operations like I enjoyed
> >> from AO-10 and AO-13. Listening to QO-100 has rekindled that interest.
> >>
> >> Last month on AMSAT-BB I posed the question about getting a GEO ride
> >> share with a commercial satellite, something that was considered 12
> >> years ago with Intelsat. Having a QO-100 type transponder here CONUS
> >> would grow the hobby and get folks like me active again (and
> >> contributing sums as I did for AO-40). However, the "old guard" shot
> >> my idea down for the usual reasons. (See my threads last month).
> >>
> >> Having a QO-100 type transponder with a hybrid of narrow band linear
> >> side and wide band digital side would open up a lot of opportunities
> >> for operations, public service and experimentation.?? I hope the new
> >> "slate" of BOD will consider this type of project as a priority.
> >>
> >> Personally, I think GOLF has not achieved results fast enough to
> >> getting us a larger footprint. I am not advocating scrapping of that
> >> effort, but sometimes you have to jump ahead of the project and grab
> >> what is needed.
> >>
> >> 73 Joe
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Tue Jul 21 21:00:02 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 16:00:02 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Elections HEO QO-100' Linear NB + Digital WB
In-Reply-To: <CAKKR=DEYzy_1gT5UJ7aptMe+0RaCZtnvgiqySY-wGC_Btao6Aw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <341yguDfG4128Set.1595302352@web13.cms.usa.net>
	<9EAB6101-8F3A-47A4-9820-E62ED9C0E4EC@gmail.com>
	<CAKKR=DEYzy_1gT5UJ7aptMe+0RaCZtnvgiqySY-wGC_Btao6Aw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0e0903a8-658d-cf11-b134-307b752e8919@pobox.com>

On 07/21/20 15:33, Dave Hartzell via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Lots of interesting stuff going on with electric propulsion....  it may be
> slow, but it's a cost effective way to raise an orbit.
> 
> https://www.enpulsion.com/technology/
> 
> Online ordering available!

I, too, would love to see electric propulsion on one of AMSAT's birds. 
However, it is not as simple as "buy this off the shelf":

- Power: One must also consider the 40W required at nominal thrust. This 
has implications for generation (solar cell area/efficiency required), 
management (circuit board space & heat dissipation), and storage (battery).

- Physical integration: How big is it and how much does it weigh?

- Control: The algorithms to alter one's orbit in space are known, but 
much planning, coding, and testing is needed to make sure money isn't 
wasted by doing something that causes early de-orbit.

- Testing: Where does AMSAT obtain the testing facilities necessary to 
ensure proper operation, or even inclusion in the launch manifest, 
should the ride provider dictate it.

All of these problems are solvable with enough time, appropriate funding 
for all aspects of the project, and motivated, knowledgeable volunteers.

As for the basic cost of the the thruster: I'll chip in $100. We need 
only 489 more people, roughly, to do the same.

Who's with me?

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From brennanprice at verizon.net  Tue Jul 21 21:21:24 2020
From: brennanprice at verizon.net (Brennan Price)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 21:21:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Because I am being asked
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7938.1595345816.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.7938.1595345816.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <598835963.4333531.1595366484789@mail.yahoo.com>

Zach,

I will be checking returned ballots against the voter list as they are returned as an aid to determine who might be eligible for a replacement ballot come August 12. The voter list is static while the membership portal is dynamic, so I'm dealing with the accounting separately.

With the caveat that my ability to accommodate requests to verify receipt will be inversely proportional to the number of requests I receive, members may feel free to ask.

Without committing future leadership to a course of action, your suggestion is among several ideals that are worthwhile.

73 de Brennan N4QX



Message: 7
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 09:58:18 -0500
From: Zach Metzinger <zmetzing at pobox.com>
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Because I am being asked
Message-ID: <901f8e60-b912-a524-f8fa-717e73014f89 at pobox.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

On 07/21/20 0943, Brennan Price via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Out of necessity to determine a fixed voter list and in accordance with previous announcements, the voter list was invariantly determined on the basis of memberships in good standing on July 1. Membership in good standing on that date is the criterion I will use in determining whether to issue replacement or original ballots.

Hello Brennan-

Is there a mechanism whereby a voter could check that their ballot was 
received by AMSAT? This would not include the choices on the ballot, 
just that it was received.

I imagine this could be part of the launch.amsat.org interface, but I 
don't really know.

If not for this year, could this be implemented for the next voting season?

Thanks,

--- Zach
N0ZGO


From bruce at perens.com  Tue Jul 21 21:28:23 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 14:28:23 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Elections HEO QO-100' Linear NB + Digital WB
In-Reply-To: <0e0903a8-658d-cf11-b134-307b752e8919@pobox.com>
References: <341yguDfG4128Set.1595302352@web13.cms.usa.net>
	<9EAB6101-8F3A-47A4-9820-E62ED9C0E4EC@gmail.com>
	<CAKKR=DEYzy_1gT5UJ7aptMe+0RaCZtnvgiqySY-wGC_Btao6Aw@mail.gmail.com>
	<0e0903a8-658d-cf11-b134-307b752e8919@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOu6=HZKLpZTt7nNibUJ97CcNZg5mp39Spr2iL4F0ugG9A@mail.gmail.com>

As it happens, Applied Ion is reporting partial success with a thruster
design today: https://twitter.com/Applied_Ion
His cost per thruster is much closer to Zach's $100. Two thrusters of a
previous design of his are scheduled to fly on the AMSAT-EA Genesis
satellites, NET September. These are Open Source designs.

    Thanks

    Bruce

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 2:02 PM Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> On 07/21/20 15:33, Dave Hartzell via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > Lots of interesting stuff going on with electric propulsion....  it may
> be
> > slow, but it's a cost effective way to raise an orbit.
> >
> > https://www.enpulsion.com/technology/
> >
> > Online ordering available!
>
> I, too, would love to see electric propulsion on one of AMSAT's birds.
> However, it is not as simple as "buy this off the shelf":
>
> - Power: One must also consider the 40W required at nominal thrust. This
> has implications for generation (solar cell area/efficiency required),
> management (circuit board space & heat dissipation), and storage (battery).
>
> - Physical integration: How big is it and how much does it weigh?
>
> - Control: The algorithms to alter one's orbit in space are known, but
> much planning, coding, and testing is needed to make sure money isn't
> wasted by doing something that causes early de-orbit.
>
> - Testing: Where does AMSAT obtain the testing facilities necessary to
> ensure proper operation, or even inclusion in the launch manifest,
> should the ride provider dictate it.
>
> All of these problems are solvable with enough time, appropriate funding
> for all aspects of the project, and motivated, knowledgeable volunteers.
>
> As for the basic cost of the the thruster: I'll chip in $100. We need
> only 489 more people, roughly, to do the same.
>
> Who's with me?
>
> --- Zach
> N0ZGO
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Tue Jul 21 21:29:33 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 16:29:33 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Because I am being asked
In-Reply-To: <598835963.4333531.1595366484789@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.7938.1595345816.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<598835963.4333531.1595366484789@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b3a24f1d-c908-e241-6a48-3b0a4bd11fe9@pobox.com>

On 07/21/20 16:21, Brennan Price via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> I will be checking returned ballots against the voter list as they are returned as an aid to determine who might be eligible for a replacement ballot come August 12. The voter list is static while the membership portal is dynamic, so I'm dealing with the accounting separately.
> 
> With the caveat that my ability to accommodate requests to verify receipt will be inversely proportional to the number of requests I receive, members may feel free to ask.
> 
> Without committing future leadership to a course of action, your suggestion is among several ideals that are worthwhile.

Brennan,

Thanks!

Just to be clear to the entire list, I have full trust in AMSAT's 
handling of ballots, but my trust in the USPS not to misplace my ballot 
for an indeterminate amount of time is somewhat less. :-)

--- Zach
N0ZGO


From w3ab at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 21 21:53:49 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (GEO Badger)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 21:53:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Dual band cavity filter?
In-Reply-To: <CALdCfNJKuAQ73BT_jZwDSu1O0uh=zfiZBFSekjwoLznstuyhoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALdCfNJKuAQ73BT_jZwDSu1O0uh=zfiZBFSekjwoLznstuyhoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <965077905.5162526.1595368429990@mail.yahoo.com>

Bob,
You've stirred, not shaken, some ideas in my pea brain. 2 band/1 input in-out is the difficult part. That's why it's expensive. Of course the machining adds cost too.
How about 2 band/1 input- 2 outputs?
---? 
 Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side??
73 de W3AB/GEO ??? 

 http://www.w3ab.org

You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out". 

    On Monday, July 20, 2020, 06:37:48 AM PDT, Robert Bruninga via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 Many of us use dual band radios but when operating on mountains or hills we
need a front end cavity filter.? The DCI dual band helical filter is ideal
but I just learned it is $530!

I'm starting to visualize? a cavity filter made out of a piece of aluminum
drain pipe.? With a capacitive screw at the top for tuning VHF and a
smaller one about 1/3rd the way up for UHF.

My theory is that the lower UHF capacitance will be at a UHF high-Z point
and will tune the UHF nicely and the one at the top will tune the VHF
nicely.? Of course with very much interaction.

Unfortunately for our annual Golden Packet Event, the 3rd harmonic of our
APRS VHF operating frequency is at 432 and our use of APRS UHF talking freq
at 445.925 is quite away away.

Maybe if such a single cavity design could work, we could use the event's
UHF voice coordination frequency closer to the 3rd harmonic to make the
filter easier or possible to tune dual band? (Though we night then also
Desense voice with every packet).

I want it to buildable from Home Depot and common tools.? Wont be as good
as the $530 DCI filter, but maybe close enough for our event.

It wont be robust and it wont be quality, but might work for us AND amsat
dual band operators in the field.

my big assumption is that a 1/4 wave cavity filter will also work on its
3rd harmonic?? We only need to knock down QRM to prevent desense.

Anyone have cheaper than $530 solutions?

Bob
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From bruninga at usna.edu  Tue Jul 21 23:30:41 2020
From: bruninga at usna.edu (Robert Bruninga)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 19:30:41 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Dual band cavity filter?
In-Reply-To: <965077905.5162526.1595368429990@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CALdCfNJKuAQ73BT_jZwDSu1O0uh=zfiZBFSekjwoLznstuyhoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<965077905.5162526.1595368429990@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CALdCfN+7jzRh9Twv9jhvn_MxCgz9nSvf5f6kbeF1sgJA=-+GgA@mail.gmail.com>

1-in 2-out is fallback but only if impossible for 1 in and 1 out.

Do you think if we make the UHF closer to the 3rd harmonic of the VHF that
we can make it work with one cavity?
I assume that due to stray effects that the UHF peak will NOT be exactly
the 3rd harmonic so there can be some isolation maybe.

Since the radio is dual band full duplex, I wonder if it can protect itself
if one TX on vhf and RX on 3rd harmonic.  ALl that power into the UHF front
end?

I'd start building but just today in my Chemo saga, my right arm is
almost useless  I have to move my right hand from mouse to keyboard with
my left hand.  So whipping up something is a dream at this point.  This has
come on suddenly...

Bob
P

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 5:53 PM GEO Badger <w3ab at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Bob,
>
> You've stirred, not shaken, some ideas in my pea brain. 2 band/1 input
> in-out is the difficult part. That's why it's expensive. Of course the
> machining adds cost too.
>
> How about 2 band/1 input- 2 outputs?
>
> ---
> Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side
>
> 73 de W3AB/GEO
>
> http://www.w3ab.org
>
> You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out".
>
>
> On Monday, July 20, 2020, 06:37:48 AM PDT, Robert Bruninga via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>
> Many of us use dual band radios but when operating on mountains or hills we
> need a front end cavity filter.  The DCI dual band helical filter is ideal
> but I just learned it is $530!
>
> I'm starting to visualize  a cavity filter made out of a piece of aluminum
> drain pipe.  With a capacitive screw at the top for tuning VHF and a
> smaller one about 1/3rd the way up for UHF.
>
> My theory is that the lower UHF capacitance will be at a UHF high-Z point
> and will tune the UHF nicely and the one at the top will tune the VHF
> nicely.  Of course with very much interaction.
>
> Unfortunately for our annual Golden Packet Event, the 3rd harmonic of our
> APRS VHF operating frequency is at 432 and our use of APRS UHF talking freq
> at 445.925 is quite away away.
>
> Maybe if such a single cavity design could work, we could use the event's
> UHF voice coordination frequency closer to the 3rd harmonic to make the
> filter easier or possible to tune dual band  (Though we night then also
> Desense voice with every packet).
>
> I want it to buildable from Home Depot and common tools.  Wont be as good
> as the $530 DCI filter, but maybe close enough for our event.
>
> It wont be robust and it wont be quality, but might work for us AND amsat
> dual band operators in the field.
>
> my big assumption is that a 1/4 wave cavity filter will also work on its
> 3rd harmonic?  We only need to knock down QRM to prevent desense.
>
> Anyone have cheaper than $530 solutions?
>
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From robert.machale at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 22 00:24:18 2020
From: robert.machale at yahoo.com (Robert MacHale)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 00:24:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] LVB Tracker vs. Yeasu GS-232B
References: <1712891565.5238819.1595377458391.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1712891565.5238819.1595377458391@mail.yahoo.com>

What is the status of the LVB Tracker - I notice it was once promoted by AmSat, but is currently out of stock.

The Yeasu GS-232B feels a little over priced at $589.

What is the current recommendation for connecting the Yeasu G-5500 to tracking software?

[1] For reference, AmSat:?https://www.amsat.org/product/lvb-tracker-complete/
[2] For reference, HRO:?https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-002778

73

Robert MacHale
. KE6BLR Ham Radio License
.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration

Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!

He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Paine

From lu9cbl at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 00:45:15 2020
From: lu9cbl at gmail.com (lu9cbl at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 21:45:15 -0300
Subject: [amsat-bb] LVB Tracker vs. Yeasu GS-232B
In-Reply-To: <1712891565.5238819.1595377458391@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1712891565.5238819.1595377458391.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1712891565.5238819.1595377458391@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <d5114e9c-c3a2-909f-528e-58844f637d19@gmail.com>

do you know Arduino with K3NG software??? its great and really cheap and 
easy to build, use, config.

73s

Mati LU9CBL


El 21/7/2020 a las 21:24, Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB escribi?:
> What is the status of the LVB Tracker - I notice it was once promoted by AmSat, but is currently out of stock.
>
> The Yeasu GS-232B feels a little over priced at $589.
>
> What is the current recommendation for connecting the Yeasu G-5500 to tracking software?
>
> [1] For reference, AmSat:?https://www.amsat.org/product/lvb-tracker-complete/
> [2] For reference, HRO:?https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-002778
>
> 73
>
> Robert MacHale
> . KE6BLR Ham Radio License
> .?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> .?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club
> . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
>
> Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!
>
> He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Paine
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

-- 
El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electr?nico en busca de virus.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


From rich at ourowndomain.com  Wed Jul 22 00:54:56 2020
From: rich at ourowndomain.com (Rich Gopstein)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 20:54:56 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] LVB Tracker vs. Yeasu GS-232B
In-Reply-To: <d5114e9c-c3a2-909f-528e-58844f637d19@gmail.com>
References: <1712891565.5238819.1595377458391.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1712891565.5238819.1595377458391@mail.yahoo.com>
	<d5114e9c-c3a2-909f-528e-58844f637d19@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANsNeao7_cRCkcOLJ0xu4G8CQJy9k7bz-9BMikCOkndYe9WzvA@mail.gmail.com>

I also built an arduino-based K3NG controller.  It's a good option if you
don't mind doing a little homebrewing.

Rich, KD2CQ

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 8:47 PM lu9cbl--- via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> do you know Arduino with K3NG software??? its great and really cheap and
> easy to build, use, config.
>
> 73s
>
> Mati LU9CBL
>
>
> El 21/7/2020 a las 21:24, Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB escribi?:
> > What is the status of the LVB Tracker - I notice it was once promoted by
> AmSat, but is currently out of stock.
> >
> > The Yeasu GS-232B feels a little over priced at $589.
> >
> > What is the current recommendation for connecting the Yeasu G-5500 to
> tracking software?
> >
> > [1] For reference, AmSat:
> https://www.amsat.org/product/lvb-tracker-complete/
> > [2] For reference, HRO:
> https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-002778
> >
> > 73
> >
> > Robert MacHale
> > . KE6BLR Ham Radio License
> > . http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> > . http://www.spaceCommunicator.club
> > . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space
> Exploration
> >
> > Silly Joke: What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi
> Cliff!
> >
> > He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Paine
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> --
> El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electr?nico en
> busca de virus.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From ve3nxk at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 01:30:35 2020
From: ve3nxk at gmail.com (Bill Booth)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 21:30:35 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] LVB Tracker vs. Yeasu GS-232B
In-Reply-To: <1712891565.5238819.1595377458391@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1712891565.5238819.1595377458391.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1712891565.5238819.1595377458391@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <33e210f7-a34e-2d50-0175-0c3691a9a463@gmail.com>

On 2020-07-21 8:24 p.m., Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>   current recommendation for connecting the Yeasu G-5500

I looked at this one before getting the AMSAT LVB version.

http://www.foxdelta.com/products/st2-0417.htm

-- 
Bill Booth VE3NXK
Sundridge ON, Canada
79.23.37 W x 45.46.18 N
FN05ns

Visit my weather WebCam at http://www.almaguin.com/wxcurrent/weather.html

Organ and Tissue Donation - The Gift of Life
Talk to your family.  Your decision can make a difference.

From e.krome at comcast.net  Wed Jul 22 01:39:36 2020
From: e.krome at comcast.net (EDWARD KROME)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 21:39:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [amsat-bb] LVB Tracker vs. Yeasu GS-232B
In-Reply-To: <1712891565.5238819.1595377458391@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1712891565.5238819.1595377458391.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1712891565.5238819.1595377458391@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1975303162.69312.1595381977134@connect.xfinity.com>

I use both FoxDelta ST2 and LVB, built from a kit from AMSAT-UK. No performance difference.

Ed K9EK

> On 07/21/2020 8:24 PM Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
>  
> What is the status of the LVB Tracker - I notice it was once promoted by AmSat, but is currently out of stock.
> 
> The Yeasu GS-232B feels a little over priced at $589.
> 
> What is the current recommendation for connecting the Yeasu G-5500 to tracking software?
> 
> [1] For reference, AmSat:?https://www.amsat.org/product/lvb-tracker-complete/
> [2] For reference, HRO:?https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-002778
> 
> 73
> 
> Robert MacHale
> . KE6BLR Ham Radio License
> .?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> .?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
> . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
> 
> Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!
> 
> He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Paine
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From aj9n at aol.com  Wed Jul 22 01:46:47 2020
From: aj9n at aol.com (aj9n at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 01:46:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] LVB Tracker vs. Yeasu GS-232B
In-Reply-To: <1712891565.5238819.1595377458391@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1712891565.5238819.1595377458391.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1712891565.5238819.1595377458391@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <524462590.3689329.1595382407014@mail.yahoo.com>

I would look into getting the Labjack U12 or U3.? SatPC32 has the schematic for the "piggyback" that goes between the Labjack and the control box.
Labjack:
https://labjack.com/products/u12
https://labjack.com/products/u3
The piggybacks:
http://www.dk1tb.de/lj_piggyback.JPG
http://www.dk1tb.de/lj_piggyback_u3.JPG
I have used the U12; it works great.? Something to consider.
73,Charlie Sufana AJ9NOne of the ARISS mentors

In a message dated 2020-07-21 20:25:25 Eastern Standard Time, amsat-bb at amsat.org writes:

What is the status of the LVB Tracker - I notice it was once promoted by AmSat, but is currently out of stock.
The Yeasu GS-232B feels a little over priced at $589.
What is the current recommendation for connecting the Yeasu G-5500 to tracking software?
[1] For reference, AmSat:?https://www.amsat.org/product/lvb-tracker-complete/[2] For reference, HRO:?https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-002778
73
Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Paine_______________________________________________Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum availableto all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressedare solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From john at papays.com  Wed Jul 22 02:36:19 2020
From: john at papays.com (john at papays.com)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 22:36:19 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what?  Something to consider.
Message-ID: <4a9b3a4d89d091e19cc5b013558b3c85@papays.com>

One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago, "What is going on
with AMSAT?"  It's nothing short of an all out civil war.  And it is
nasty and it's tearing us apart.   

With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is hard to determine
the root cause of the War.  You have to stand way back to have any
chance of finding out.  If you take the time, the real issues becomes
clear.  

The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago when members
started talking about the ballots they were receiving in the mail. 
Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem will go away.
 Nothing could be farther from the truth.  Patrick and Michelle are not
on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the election is
over.   

My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived yesterday.  And so did
the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates.  I read the
statements and have been reading the candidate's comments on other
social media platforms.   Some of the candidates talked about some of
the War issues.  Some said they would like to see regular Board
meetings.  One candidate posted that he would cast the third vote
required to demand General Board meetings be held regularly!  That's
about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements.  The same person
promised to do some other things as well if elected; some helpful and
some not, in my opinion.  But at least he said them.. 

A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote for.  He
documented everyone's credentials, experience, past efforts with AMSAT
along with comments about personal interactions, if any.  Those are good
things to consider.  But what about the future?  What issues does the
candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to deal with them? 

To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way to bring our
Civil War to an end.  And that would include negotiating an agreement
with all parties that will restore civility and respect for all members,
a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is suggesting
them, as much transparency as the law permits along with fiscal
responsibility and accountability.  For the past week I've pondered how
to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of working.  But
I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I will defer to
the candidates to come up with their own ideas. 

I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail a plan to
deal with it.  Forget the general statements.  There are things that
must happen for the War to end.  And if someone with a high school
education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you should be able
to solve this problem with ease.  My vote will go to the candidates with
the best plans.  I urge others to wait a bit before casting their votes.
 Let's  see what happens! 

73, John K8YSE

From clintbradford at mac.com  Wed Jul 22 03:15:20 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 20:15:20 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - now what?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.8049.1595385386.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.8049.1595385386.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <186925ED-0CF4-4089-85A2-AB53DD3365CB@mac.com>

They?ll never do it.

Clint Bradford K6LCS

> On Jul 21, 2020, at 7:36 PM, amsat-bb-request at amsat.org wrote:
> 
> I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail a plan to
> deal with it. 


From clintbradford at mac.com  Wed Jul 22 03:24:12 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 20:24:12 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is This  AMSAT's Future?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.8024.1595366487.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.8024.1595366487.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <6578959B-B846-46E8-947C-A7354F3D430A@mac.com>

These new projects - seems like they are ?marketed? towards a very small segment os satellite operators.

Is there truly a worthwhile ?return on investment" when a ground station might have to include ?

 ? ? radio system is a 10 GHz downlink that will support 1 Mbps.  
You'll need a 10 GHz antenna that can be steered to track a LEO 
satellite and probably a low-noise block downconverter (LNB) 
feeding an SDR.  I think similar receivers are used for QO-100, 
so a Google search may yield some designs that are currently 
working, although QO-100 is nearly stationary ? ?

Feels like a very few hams will partake ? Exciting, indeed. But surely 
not geared to the masses ?

Clint Bradford K6LCS

From n8fgv at usa.net  Wed Jul 22 03:23:48 2020
From: n8fgv at usa.net (Daniel Schultz)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 23:23:48 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Thruster (was: Elections HEO QO-100' Linear
 NB + Digital WB)
Message-ID: <792ygVDwW1744Set.1595388228@web13.cms.usa.net>

I've been going to Electric Propulsion conferences for over a decade now, and
I always had a sneaking suspicion that I could build one of those things in my
garage, but then common sense takes over when I remind myself how long it
would take me to accomplish that. It looks like he is way ahead of me in
getting a vacuum system up and running. 

One thing the twitter feed does not mention, where is Applied Ion located?

An open source electric thruster is a very key element in returning AMSAT to
HEO. Is there anything we can do to help him along?

Dan Schultz N8FGV

------ Original Message ------
>As it happens, Applied Ion is reporting partial success with a thruster
>design today: https://twitter.com/Applied_Ion
>His cost per thruster is much closer to Zach's $100. Two thrusters of a
>previous design of his are scheduled to fly on the AMSAT-EA Genesis
>satellites, NET September. These are Open Source designs.







From w3ab at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 22 03:48:33 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 20:48:33 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is This  AMSAT's Future?
In-Reply-To: <6578959B-B846-46E8-947C-A7354F3D430A@mac.com>
References: <mailman.8024.1595366487.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<6578959B-B846-46E8-947C-A7354F3D430A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <fd153001-c5aa-45f0-bad3-adfb49fca5e9@yahoo.com>

This could very well be. Tech changes over time. IMHO, Hams need to change over time to keep the hobby viable.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 21, 2020, 20:26, at 20:26, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>These new projects - seems like they are ?marketed? towards a very
>small segment os satellite operators.
>
>Is there truly a worthwhile ?return on investment" when a ground
>station might have to include ?
>
> ? ? radio system is a 10 GHz downlink that will support 1 Mbps.  
>You'll need a 10 GHz antenna that can be steered to track a LEO 
>satellite and probably a low-noise block downconverter (LNB) 
>feeding an SDR.  I think similar receivers are used for QO-100, 
>so a Google search may yield some designs that are currently 
>working, although QO-100 is nearly stationary ? ?
>
>Feels like a very few hams will partake ? Exciting, indeed. But surely 
>not geared to the masses ?
>
>Clint Bradford K6LCS
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 04:22:51 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 21:22:51 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <4a9b3a4d89d091e19cc5b013558b3c85@papays.com>
References: <4a9b3a4d89d091e19cc5b013558b3c85@papays.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2XtO1ENAdtFviJz=D=458O+iyDG-ug9NTRAg4AkyLf6gg@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for sharing your feelings about this.

I strongly disagree that this is some sort of "war".

After being elected in 2019, Patrick and I were simply not allowed to
participate. We were denied access to corporate communications and records.
This was done by the majority members of the board, starting the day the
results were announced. Some of these problems continue to the present day.

Some of the people that did this are running for another term. When elected
representatives refuse to even meet with people that think differently than
they do, then something is very wrong. Refusing to hold board meetings
hurts AMSAT. The organization doesn't run itself.

Patrick and I have zero power and have caused zero harm. The only thing
we've brought to the party is sunlight.

"please elect people that will allow regular AMSAT board meetings" and
"please elect people that will not spend member money on secretly hired law
firms" is all we are asking for from the membership. This is not the
equivalent of "warfare". These things aren't even that controversial. We
just want to do our jobs. We need your help.

I am very sorry it's an uncomfortable subject. I honestly do not think you
would have preferred us to hide it for another year. I don't think you
would want all of us to do completely nothing for month after month because
the majority simply picked up the ball and walked off the field.

That's not a war. That's a forfeit.

-Michelle W5NYV



On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 7:40 PM john--- via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago, "What is going on
> with AMSAT?"  It's nothing short of an all out civil war.  And it is
> nasty and it's tearing us apart.
>
> With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is hard to determine
> the root cause of the War.  You have to stand way back to have any
> chance of finding out.  If you take the time, the real issues becomes
> clear.
>
> The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago when members
> started talking about the ballots they were receiving in the mail.
> Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem will go away.
>  Nothing could be farther from the truth.  Patrick and Michelle are not
> on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the election is
> over.
>
> My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived yesterday.  And so did
> the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates.  I read the
> statements and have been reading the candidate's comments on other
> social media platforms.   Some of the candidates talked about some of
> the War issues.  Some said they would like to see regular Board
> meetings.  One candidate posted that he would cast the third vote
> required to demand General Board meetings be held regularly!  That's
> about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements.  The same person
> promised to do some other things as well if elected; some helpful and
> some not, in my opinion.  But at least he said them..
>
> A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote for.  He
> documented everyone's credentials, experience, past efforts with AMSAT
> along with comments about personal interactions, if any.  Those are good
> things to consider.  But what about the future?  What issues does the
> candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to deal with them?
>
> To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way to bring our
> Civil War to an end.  And that would include negotiating an agreement
> with all parties that will restore civility and respect for all members,
> a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is suggesting
> them, as much transparency as the law permits along with fiscal
> responsibility and accountability.  For the past week I've pondered how
> to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of working.  But
> I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I will defer to
> the candidates to come up with their own ideas.
>
> I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail a plan to
> deal with it.  Forget the general statements.  There are things that
> must happen for the War to end.  And if someone with a high school
> education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you should be able
> to solve this problem with ease.  My vote will go to the candidates with
> the best plans.  I urge others to wait a bit before casting their votes.
>  Let's  see what happens!
>
> 73, John K8YSE
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From rhyolite at leikhim.com  Tue Jul 21 20:26:28 2020
From: rhyolite at leikhim.com (Joe Leikhim)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 16:26:28 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb]  Elections HEO QO-100' Linear NB + Digital WB
Message-ID: <4b99e274-6187-ebd4-06ee-c282001a0005@leikhim.com>

*No argument that launches to HEO cost money. Every launch costs money. 
Has anyone tabulated launch costs for the last 10=15 years? Projecting 
forward 10 years 10 satellite launches into LEO at $100K each is a 
million dollars. This of course is made up, but has anyone looked at the 
options of how to fund an HEO launch? If not why not? I get a sense that 
AO-40 sort of put a damper on things, where instead we should have 
dusted off and launched AO-41.*

    *"Howie DeFelice*  
         howied231 at hotmail.com
    <mailto:amsat-bb%40amsat.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5Bamsat-bb%5D%20Elections%20HEO%20QO-100%27%20Linear%20NB%20%2B%20Digital%20WB&In-Reply-To=%3CMN2PR14MB3517642671013610148975FAE7780%40MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com%3E>

         /Tue Jul 21 10:56:22 UTC 2020/

    If Bill was still around I would ask him, I do miss him. There may be some details in the corporate records but as an alternate board member I don't have access to those archives. Perhaps some of the current board can provide the details. My memory of what I heard was that Intelsat treated the request as a commercial RFQ and we got the commercial price that was many times the cost to orbit AO-40. Any new HEO satellite is going to require huge amounts of money no matter what. The ability to raise funds will be the MOST IMPORTANT part of getting a HEO satellite launched. Anybody who says different does not know what they are talking about.

    Howie AB2S"

-- 
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

JLeikhim at Leikhim.com

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM


From bruce at perens.com  Wed Jul 22 05:31:15 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 22:31:15 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Thruster (was: Elections HEO QO-100'
 Linear NB + Digital WB)
In-Reply-To: <792ygVDwW1744Set.1595388228@web13.cms.usa.net>
References: <792ygVDwW1744Set.1595388228@web13.cms.usa.net>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOuJiZMzvZpCZs5QgyEbCUQw8BkrF-LNYTy992fPuTapmw@mail.gmail.com>

Michael (Applied Ion) has a full-time job for RPI in Troy, New York and
does this engine work in his spare time. I ran a recent fundraising to buy
him a roughing pump, which some people in this group contributed to. I
think he has a Patreon.

Thanks

Bruce

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 8:42 PM Daniel Schultz via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I've been going to Electric Propulsion conferences for over a decade now,
> and
> I always had a sneaking suspicion that I could build one of those things
> in my
> garage, but then common sense takes over when I remind myself how long it
> would take me to accomplish that. It looks like he is way ahead of me in
> getting a vacuum system up and running.
>
> One thing the twitter feed does not mention, where is Applied Ion located?
>
> An open source electric thruster is a very key element in returning AMSAT
> to
> HEO. Is there anything we can do to help him along?
>
> Dan Schultz N8FGV
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> >As it happens, Applied Ion is reporting partial success with a thruster
> >design today: https://twitter.com/Applied_Ion
> >His cost per thruster is much closer to Zach's $100. Two thrusters of a
> >previous design of his are scheduled to fly on the AMSAT-EA Genesis
> >satellites, NET September. These are Open Source designs.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From hans.bx2abt at msa.hinet.net  Wed Jul 22 06:15:42 2020
From: hans.bx2abt at msa.hinet.net (Hans BX2ABT)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 14:15:42 +0800
Subject: [amsat-bb] Open Source Thruster (was: Elections HEO QO-100'
 Linear NB + Digital WB)
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOuJiZMzvZpCZs5QgyEbCUQw8BkrF-LNYTy992fPuTapmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <792ygVDwW1744Set.1595388228@web13.cms.usa.net>
	<CAK2MWOuJiZMzvZpCZs5QgyEbCUQw8BkrF-LNYTy992fPuTapmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f00ceaa8-0aa1-7fef-6e7a-51ed7b077b52@msa.hinet.net>

In this video he gives a nice introduction to his work: 
https://youtu.be/8ehQjl0pagc

73 de Hans

BX2ABT

On 7/22/20 1:31 PM, Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Michael (Applied Ion) has a full-time job for RPI in Troy, New York and
> does this engine work in his spare time. I ran a recent fundraising to buy
> him a roughing pump, which some people in this group contributed to. I
> think he has a Patreon.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bruce
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 8:42 PM Daniel Schultz via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> I've been going to Electric Propulsion conferences for over a decade now,
>> and
>> I always had a sneaking suspicion that I could build one of those things
>> in my
>> garage, but then common sense takes over when I remind myself how long it
>> would take me to accomplish that. It looks like he is way ahead of me in
>> getting a vacuum system up and running.
>>
>> One thing the twitter feed does not mention, where is Applied Ion located?
>>
>> An open source electric thruster is a very key element in returning AMSAT
>> to
>> HEO. Is there anything we can do to help him along?
>>
>> Dan Schultz N8FGV
>>
>> ------ Original Message ------
>>> As it happens, Applied Ion is reporting partial success with a thruster
>>> design today: https://twitter.com/Applied_Ion
>>> His cost per thruster is much closer to Zach's $100. Two thrusters of a
>>> previous design of his are scheduled to fly on the AMSAT-EA Genesis
>>> satellites, NET September. These are Open Source designs.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>

From clintbradford at mac.com  Wed Jul 22 07:23:27 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 00:23:27 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is This AMSAT's Future?
Message-ID: <2E07D201-8BB9-4831-85B8-C6DC745CDE4A@mac.com>

>> This could very well be. Tech changes over time. IMHO, Hams need to change over time to keep the hobby viable.

That required station is quite a jump from enjoying LEOs - and getting involved in satellite communications for well under $200, though.

Clint Bradford K6LCS
- Still having clubs approach me for info on ?Getting Started ? ? (g)


From graham at shirville.com  Wed Jul 22 08:25:49 2020
From: graham at shirville.com (Graham Shirville)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 09:25:49 +0100
Subject: [amsat-bb] LVB Tracker vs. Yeasu GS-232B
In-Reply-To: <524462590.3689329.1595382407014@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1712891565.5238819.1595377458391.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1712891565.5238819.1595377458391@mail.yahoo.com>
	<524462590.3689329.1595382407014@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <15717753-5ff4-2bc3-b0b3-2014fd29d48a@shirville.com>

Hi Robert,

Try AMSAT-UK's shop - they currently have 19? full kits (but no case) in 
stock! 
https://shop.amsat-uk.org/LVB_Tracker_-_Complete_kit/p3815740_16276510.aspx

73

Graham G3VZV

On 22/07/2020 02:46, aj9n--- via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> I would look into getting the Labjack U12 or U3.? SatPC32 has the schematic for the "piggyback" that goes between the Labjack and the control box.
> Labjack:
> https://labjack.com/products/u12
> https://labjack.com/products/u3
> The piggybacks:
> http://www.dk1tb.de/lj_piggyback.JPG
> http://www.dk1tb.de/lj_piggyback_u3.JPG
> I have used the U12; it works great.? Something to consider.
> 73,Charlie Sufana AJ9NOne of the ARISS mentors
>
> In a message dated 2020-07-21 20:25:25 Eastern Standard Time, amsat-bb at amsat.org writes:
>
> What is the status of the LVB Tracker - I notice it was once promoted by AmSat, but is currently out of stock.
> The Yeasu GS-232B feels a little over priced at $589.
> What is the current recommendation for connecting the Yeasu G-5500 to tracking software?
> [1] For reference, AmSat:?https://www.amsat.org/product/lvb-tracker-complete/[2] For reference, HRO:?https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-002778
> 73
> Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club
> . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
> Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!
> He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Paine_______________________________________________Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum availableto all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressedare solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From wa4sca at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 10:36:36 2020
From: wa4sca at gmail.com (Alan)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 05:36:36 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <4a9b3a4d89d091e19cc5b013558b3c85@papays.com>
References: <4a9b3a4d89d091e19cc5b013558b3c85@papays.com>
Message-ID: <000001d66013$fa3300e0$ee9902a0$@gmail.com>

John,

It is more accurate to think of it as an attempted hostile takeover rather
than a civil war, even though it is driven by ego and ideology rather than
money. That is important when understanding the tools being used, and in
looking at the range of possible resolutions. They are somewhat different in
the two cases. 

73,

Alan
WA4SCA




<-----Original Message-----
<From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org] On Behalf Of john--- via
<AMSAT-BB
<Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:36 PM
<To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
<Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
<
<One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago, "What is going on
<with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war. And it is
<nasty and it's tearing us apart.
<
<With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is hard to determine
<the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to have any
<chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real issues becomes
<clear.
<
<The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago when members
<started talking about the ballots they were receiving in the mail.
<Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem will go away.
< Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and Michelle are not
<on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the election is
<over.
<
<My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived yesterday. And so did
<the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I read the
<statements and have been reading the candidate's comments on other
<social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked about some of
<the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular Board
<meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the third vote
<required to demand General Board meetings be held regularly! That's
<about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements. The same person
<promised to do some other things as well if elected; some helpful and
<some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them..
<
<A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote for. He
<documented everyone's credentials, experience, past efforts with AMSAT
<along with comments about personal interactions, if any. Those are good
<things to consider. But what about the future? What issues does the
<candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to deal with them?
<
<To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way to bring our
<Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an agreement
<with all parties that will restore civility and respect for all members,
<a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is suggesting
<them, as much transparency as the law permits along with fiscal
<responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've pondered how
<to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of working. But
<I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I will defer to
<the candidates to come up with their own ideas.
<
<I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail a plan to
<deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are things that
<must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high school
<education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you should be able
<to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the candidates with
<the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting their votes.
< Let's see what happens!
<
<73, John K8YSE
<_______________________________________________
<Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
<to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
<are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
<Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
<Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 11:07:08 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 04:07:08 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <000001d66013$fa3300e0$ee9902a0$@gmail.com>
References: <4a9b3a4d89d091e19cc5b013558b3c85@papays.com>
	<000001d66013$fa3300e0$ee9902a0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2XdvhJpLxBPNdZiUw1iwj6goccGkC3OP+YJobMi9k6a5w@mail.gmail.com>

That is true.

It?s a classic hostile takeover when the doors are locked against a
minority of the Directors, and when company assets are used for personal
reasons.

I add that secretly hiring lawyers to harass and obstruct elected leaders
isn?t a hostile takeover. It?s just plain hostile.

Lying about it and trying to cover it up is offensive.

Unlike other things that we do, this isn?t rocket science.

A stagnant board majority that freaks out and refuses to meet is not an
asset to the corporation.

Thanks to Alan for highlighting this aspect.

-Michelle W5NYV

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 03:43 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> John,
>
> It is more accurate to think of it as an attempted hostile takeover rather
> than a civil war, even though it is driven by ego and ideology rather than
> money. That is important when understanding the tools being used, and in
> looking at the range of possible resolutions. They are somewhat different
> in
> the two cases.
>
> 73,
>
> Alan
> WA4SCA
>
>
>
>
> <-----Original Message-----
> <From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org] On Behalf Of john---
> via
> <AMSAT-BB
> <Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:36 PM
> <To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> <Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
> <
> <One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago, "What is going on
> <with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war. And it is
> <nasty and it's tearing us apart.
> <
> <With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is hard to determine
> <the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to have any
> <chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real issues becomes
> <clear.
> <
> <The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago when members
> <started talking about the ballots they were receiving in the mail.
> <Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem will go away.
> < Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and Michelle are not
> <on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the election is
> <over.
> <
> <My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived yesterday. And so did
> <the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I read the
> <statements and have been reading the candidate's comments on other
> <social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked about some of
> <the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular Board
> <meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the third vote
> <required to demand General Board meetings be held regularly! That's
> <about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements. The same person
> <promised to do some other things as well if elected; some helpful and
> <some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them..
> <
> <A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote for. He
> <documented everyone's credentials, experience, past efforts with AMSAT
> <along with comments about personal interactions, if any. Those are good
> <things to consider. But what about the future? What issues does the
> <candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to deal with them?
> <
> <To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way to bring our
> <Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an agreement
> <with all parties that will restore civility and respect for all members,
> <a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is suggesting
> <them, as much transparency as the law permits along with fiscal
> <responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've pondered how
> <to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of working. But
> <I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I will defer to
> <the candidates to come up with their own ideas.
> <
> <I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail a plan to
> <deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are things that
> <must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high school
> <education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you should be able
> <to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the candidates with
> <the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting their votes.
> < Let's see what happens!
> <
> <73, John K8YSE
> <_______________________________________________
> <Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> <to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> <are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> <Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
-- 
-Michelle W5NYV

"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."

From wa4sca at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 12:06:27 2020
From: wa4sca at gmail.com (Alan)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 07:06:27 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2XdvhJpLxBPNdZiUw1iwj6goccGkC3OP+YJobMi9k6a5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4a9b3a4d89d091e19cc5b013558b3c85@papays.com>
	<000001d66013$fa3300e0$ee9902a0$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XdvhJpLxBPNdZiUw1iwj6goccGkC3OP+YJobMi9k6a5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001401d66020$87a86b70$96f94250$@gmail.com>

Michelle,

Thanks for confirming my hypothesis on your tactics and actual motivations.  A lightning response consisting of a dense smokescreen, or perhaps heavy flack, means I am over the target.  :)

73,

Alan
WA4SCA


-------------------------------------
You can fool some of the people all of the time, 
all of the people some of the time, and that is usually sufficient.






<-----Original Message-----
<From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:mountain.michelle at gmail.com]
<Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:07 AM
<To: APBIDDLE at mailaps.org; Alan <wa4sca at gmail.com>
<Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
<Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
<
<That is true.
<
<It?s a classic hostile takeover when the doors are locked against a minority of the Directors,
<and when company assets are used for personal reasons.
<
<I add that secretly hiring lawyers to harass and obstruct elected leaders isn?t a hostile
<takeover. It?s just plain hostile.
<
<Lying about it and trying to cover it up is offensive.
<
<Unlike other things that we do, this isn?t rocket science.
<
<A stagnant board majority that freaks out and refuses to meet is not an asset to the
<corporation.
<
<Thanks to Alan for highlighting this aspect.
<
<-Michelle W5NYV
<
<On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 03:43 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-
<bb at amsat.org> > wrote:
<
<
<	John,
<
<	It is more accurate to think of it as an attempted hostile takeover rather
<	than a civil war, even though it is driven by ego and ideology rather than
<	money. That is important when understanding the tools being used, and in
<	looking at the range of possible resolutions. They are somewhat different in
<	the two cases.
<
<	73,
<
<	Alan
<	WA4SCA
<
<
<
<
<	<-----Original Message-----
<	<From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb-
<bounces at amsat.org> ] On Behalf Of john--- via
<	<AMSAT-BB
<	<Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:36 PM
<	<To: amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>
<	<Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
<	<
<	<One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago, "What is going on
<	<with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war. And it is
<	<nasty and it's tearing us apart.
<	<
<	<With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is hard to determine
<	<the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to have any
<	<chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real issues becomes
<	<clear.
<	<
<	<The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago when members
<	<started talking about the ballots they were receiving in the mail.
<	<Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem will go away.
<	< Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and Michelle are not
<	<on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the election is
<	<over.
<	<
<	<My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived yesterday. And so did
<	<the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I read the
<	<statements and have been reading the candidate's comments on other
<	<social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked about some of
<	<the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular Board
<	<meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the third vote
<	<required to demand General Board meetings be held regularly! That's
<	<about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements. The same person
<	<promised to do some other things as well if elected; some helpful and
<	<some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them..
<	<
<	<A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote for. He
<	<documented everyone's credentials, experience, past efforts with AMSAT
<	<along with comments about personal interactions, if any. Those are good
<	<things to consider. But what about the future? What issues does the
<	<candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to deal with them?
<	<
<	<To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way to bring our
<	<Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an agreement
<	<with all parties that will restore civility and respect for all members,
<	<a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is suggesting
<	<them, as much transparency as the law permits along with fiscal
<	<responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've pondered how
<	<to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of working. But
<	<I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I will defer to
<	<the candidates to come up with their own ideas.
<	<
<	<I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail a plan to
<	<deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are things that
<	<must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high school
<	<education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you should be able
<	<to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the candidates with
<	<the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting their votes.
<	< Let's see what happens!
<	<
<	<73, John K8YSE
<	<_______________________________________________
<	<Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> . AMSAT-NA
<makes this open forum available
<	<to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
<	expressed
<	<are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
<	AMSAT-NA.
<	<Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
<	<Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
<
<	_______________________________________________
<	Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> . AMSAT-NA
<makes this open forum available
<	to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
<expressed
<	are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
<	Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
<	Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
<
<
<--
<
<-Michelle W5NYV
<
<
<"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
<



From zmetzing at pobox.com  Wed Jul 22 13:49:16 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 08:49:16 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is This AMSAT's Future?
In-Reply-To: <2E07D201-8BB9-4831-85B8-C6DC745CDE4A@mac.com>
References: <2E07D201-8BB9-4831-85B8-C6DC745CDE4A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <b72883eb-0439-a677-54a0-6ccdc59845ce@pobox.com>

On 07/22/20 02:23, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>>> This could very well be. Tech changes over time. IMHO, Hams need to change over time to keep the hobby viable.
> 
> That required station is quite a jump from enjoying LEOs - and getting involved in satellite communications for well under $200, though.

There will always be some cost to this hobby, part of which can be 
mitigated by more home-brewing of equipment. However, if one doesn't 
want scratch-build the entire system, there are rather inexpensive 
solutions from commercial components.

OZ1BXM has an overview of the 13cm (2.4 GHz) uplink / 3cm (10 GHz) 
downlink system here:

https://oz1bxm.dk/sat/QO100-rig.html

Seems like the receive chain is quite simple and cheap. I recently 
acquired a 10 GHz LNB, new in a box, from eBay for $20. The RTL-SDR is 
about another $20, and a bias-tee is probably $10, if one can't cobble 
it together from the junk bin.

The transmit path requires a 2.4 GHz radio or converter, which is likely 
the most expensive part of the whole system.

One could argue that this setup pushes new operators toward learning to 
track and listen before trying to transmit. This is probably a good thing.

The 10 GHz information will be useful for GOLF-1's microwave capabilities.

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From rs2atmink at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 22 13:52:12 2020
From: rs2atmink at yahoo.com (Robert Switzer)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 13:52:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is This  AMSAT's Future?
In-Reply-To: <6578959B-B846-46E8-947C-A7354F3D430A@mac.com>
References: <mailman.8024.1595366487.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<6578959B-B846-46E8-947C-A7354F3D430A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <2007612699.5453125.1595425932554@mail.yahoo.com>

 Clint,
IMO there is room to promote new participation with basic FM repeaters in the sky, while at the same time providing
an architecture and program for advanced operations.? The vision there is to also provide a blueprint for entry-level
participation at very reasonable cost.? More work than a tape measure and an HT but the vision was definitely to
help relative newcomers take it to the next level.
There's room for both, no?
Rob KA2CZU
    On Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 11:26:00 PM EDT, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 These new projects - seems like they are ?marketed? towards a very small segment os satellite operators.

Is there truly a worthwhile ?return on investment" when a ground station might have to include ?

 ? ? radio system is a 10 GHz downlink that will support 1 Mbps.? 
You'll need a 10 GHz antenna that can be steered to track a LEO 
satellite and probably a low-noise block downconverter (LNB) 
feeding an SDR.? I think similar receivers are used for QO-100, 
so a Google search may yield some designs that are currently 
working, although QO-100 is nearly stationary ? ?

Feels like a very few hams will partake ? Exciting, indeed. But surely 
not geared to the masses ?

Clint Bradford K6LCS
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From propgrinder at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 14:15:44 2020
From: propgrinder at gmail.com (Bob Hammond)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 07:15:44 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is This AMSAT's Future?
In-Reply-To: <2007612699.5453125.1595425932554@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.8024.1595366487.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<6578959B-B846-46E8-947C-A7354F3D430A@mac.com>
	<2007612699.5453125.1595425932554@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAKoB7OoJrtR09BugDTEPMXydna7n4aMjCc8huS=Yk3Su53UOjQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, there's room for both and a whole lot more.

Bob W7OTJ

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 6:56 AM Robert Switzer via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

>  Clint,
> IMO there is room to promote new participation with basic FM repeaters in
> the sky, while at the same time providing
> an architecture and program for advanced operations.  The vision there is
> to also provide a blueprint for entry-level
> participation at very reasonable cost.  More work than a tape measure and
> an HT but the vision was definitely to
> help relative newcomers take it to the next level.
> There's room for both, no?
> Rob KA2CZU
>     On Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 11:26:00 PM EDT, Clint Bradford via
> AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>  These new projects - seems like they are ?marketed? towards a very small
> segment os satellite operators.
>
> Is there truly a worthwhile ?return on investment" when a ground station
> might have to include ?
>
>  ? ? radio system is a 10 GHz downlink that will support 1 Mbps.
> You'll need a 10 GHz antenna that can be steered to track a LEO
> satellite and probably a low-noise block downconverter (LNB)
> feeding an SDR.  I think similar receivers are used for QO-100,
> so a Google search may yield some designs that are currently
> working, although QO-100 is nearly stationary ? ?
>
> Feels like a very few hams will partake ? Exciting, indeed. But surely
> not geared to the masses ?
>
> Clint Bradford K6LCS
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 14:22:23 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 07:22:23 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <001401d66020$87a86b70$96f94250$@gmail.com>
References: <4a9b3a4d89d091e19cc5b013558b3c85@papays.com>
	<000001d66013$fa3300e0$ee9902a0$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XdvhJpLxBPNdZiUw1iwj6goccGkC3OP+YJobMi9k6a5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<001401d66020$87a86b70$96f94250$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2WPC32kB5ofoBPYg49N0yh-_Y2QjmTBnCSS115uCNx3SQ@mail.gmail.com>

Describing me publicly as a ?target? that you want to bomb makes one of us
look bad... and it isn?t me.

Violent responses to ordinary questions about financial oversight have been
the pattern from the majority of the absentee board.

There certainly was smoke. It lead to real fires. We put some of them out
without anyone getting bothered.

The voters are the fire department of last resort for a member society. If
you are out there, we need your help.

Fewer war-obsessed Directors would result in immediate improvement for
everyone.

Please vote for McGwier, DeFelice, and Johns.

-mdt



On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 05:19 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Michelle,
>
> Thanks for confirming my hypothesis on your tactics and actual
> motivations.  A lightning response consisting of a dense smokescreen, or
> perhaps heavy flack, means I am over the target.  :)
>
> 73,
>
> Alan
> WA4SCA
>
>
> -------------------------------------
> You can fool some of the people all of the time,
> all of the people some of the time, and that is usually sufficient.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <-----Original Message-----
> <From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:mountain.michelle at gmail.com]
> <Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:07 AM
> <To: APBIDDLE at mailaps.org; Alan <wa4sca at gmail.com>
> <Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> <Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
> consider.
> <
> <That is true.
> <
> <It?s a classic hostile takeover when the doors are locked against a
> minority of the Directors,
> <and when company assets are used for personal reasons.
> <
> <I add that secretly hiring lawyers to harass and obstruct elected leaders
> isn?t a hostile
> <takeover. It?s just plain hostile.
> <
> <Lying about it and trying to cover it up is offensive.
> <
> <Unlike other things that we do, this isn?t rocket science.
> <
> <A stagnant board majority that freaks out and refuses to meet is not an
> asset to the
> <corporation.
> <
> <Thanks to Alan for highlighting this aspect.
> <
> <-Michelle W5NYV
> <
> <On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 03:43 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org
> <mailto:amsat-
> <bb at amsat.org> > wrote:
> <
> <
> <       John,
> <
> <       It is more accurate to think of it as an attempted hostile
> takeover rather
> <       than a civil war, even though it is driven by ego and ideology
> rather than
> <       money. That is important when understanding the tools being used,
> and in
> <       looking at the range of possible resolutions. They are somewhat
> different in
> <       the two cases.
> <
> <       73,
> <
> <       Alan
> <       WA4SCA
> <
> <
> <
> <
> <       <-----Original Message-----
> <       <From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org <mailto:
> amsat-bb-
> <bounces at amsat.org> ] On Behalf Of john--- via
> <       <AMSAT-BB
> <       <Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:36 PM
> <       <To: amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> <       <Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
> consider.
> <       <
> <       <One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago, "What is
> going on
> <       <with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war. And it is
> <       <nasty and it's tearing us apart.
> <       <
> <       <With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is hard to
> determine
> <       <the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to have any
> <       <chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real issues
> becomes
> <       <clear.
> <       <
> <       <The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago when
> members
> <       <started talking about the ballots they were receiving in the mail.
> <       <Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem will
> go away.
> <       < Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and Michelle
> are not
> <       <on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the
> election is
> <       <over.
> <       <
> <       <My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived yesterday. And
> so did
> <       <the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I read the
> <       <statements and have been reading the candidate's comments on other
> <       <social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked about some
> of
> <       <the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular Board
> <       <meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the third vote
> <       <required to demand General Board meetings be held regularly!
> That's
> <       <about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements. The same
> person
> <       <promised to do some other things as well if elected; some helpful
> and
> <       <some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them..
> <       <
> <       <A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote for. He
> <       <documented everyone's credentials, experience, past efforts with
> AMSAT
> <       <along with comments about personal interactions, if any. Those
> are good
> <       <things to consider. But what about the future? What issues does
> the
> <       <candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to deal with
> them?
> <       <
> <       <To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way to
> bring our
> <       <Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an
> agreement
> <       <with all parties that will restore civility and respect for all
> members,
> <       <a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is
> suggesting
> <       <them, as much transparency as the law permits along with fiscal
> <       <responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've
> pondered how
> <       <to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of working.
> But
> <       <I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I will
> defer to
> <       <the candidates to come up with their own ideas.
> <       <
> <       <I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail a plan
> to
> <       <deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are things that
> <       <must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high school
> <       <education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you should be
> able
> <       <to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the
> candidates with
> <       <the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting their
> votes.
> <       < Let's see what happens!
> <       <
> <       <73, John K8YSE
> <       <_______________________________________________
> <       <Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> .
> AMSAT-NA
> <makes this open forum available
> <       <to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> <       expressed
> <       <are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of
> <       AMSAT-NA.
> <       <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> <       <Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> <
> <       _______________________________________________
> <       Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> . AMSAT-NA
> <makes this open forum available
> <       to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> <expressed
> <       are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of AMSAT-NA.
> <       Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> <       Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> <
> <
> <--
> <
> <-Michelle W5NYV
> <
> <
> <"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
> <
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
-- 
-Michelle W5NYV

"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."

From mat_62 at charter.net  Wed Jul 22 13:13:59 2020
From: mat_62 at charter.net (Michael Tondee)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 09:13:59 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] "Walking and chewing gun at the same time"
Message-ID: <558edbb5-6e2a-1fa8-8eb7-f7b5fdf202a4@charter.net>

So now the line is that an HEO or a GEO, besides being expensive to 
launch, will be difficult and expensive for the average ham to acquire 
the equipment for so we should just forget about it? Is that what I'm 
reading? The hams I once knew, never backed down from a technical 
challenge. By all accounts it wasn't exactly "easy" to build an AO-40 
station but a whole bunch of hams managed to get it done. There was a 
time when generating and receiving an SSTV signal was an enormously 
involved process but somehow the early innovators in the field got it 
done. Now it's one of the more simple and inexpensive things to do. Hams 
have always overcome technical challenges. It's what we do, or we used 
to do it anyway.

 ?Correct me if I'm wrong but AMSAT used to be able to walk and chew gum 
at the same time. We had AO-40 and a myriad of other sats with varying 
degrees of challenge to working them. I don't think anyone is saying 
that we should just abandon the so called "easy sat" concept. Far from 
it. If that's what you enjoy, then more power to you but there is a 
large number of people out here that want something more than that. We 
enjoy the challenge. It's what drew us to this side of the hobby in the 
first place.? Why can't we do both?? We used to do that back when I was 
an enthusiastic member of this organization and I think it can be done 
again. I wouldn't still be here on this list hoping and praying for a 
change in it's direction and a return to it's former glory and status if 
I didn't.

73,

Michael W4HIJ


From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 14:38:56 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 07:38:56 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is This AMSAT's Future?
In-Reply-To: <2007612699.5453125.1595425932554@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.8024.1595366487.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
	<6578959B-B846-46E8-947C-A7354F3D430A@mac.com>
	<2007612699.5453125.1595425932554@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2XzOGuZ3Ev7zV-9Q3_Hd029CaeAoiXDBsPsWew2VB_FvQ@mail.gmail.com>

You are exactly right.

People (like me) that work on broadband digital systems have said
?both/and, not either/or? for years.

I codesigned FOX DUV, worked hard on Suitsat, and have raised money for ISS
Power Supply, FOX, and other analog projects.

I?m living proof that AMSAT can do anything (without threatening FM sats),
including world class LDPC error correction, fancy microwave feeds, and
more.

I?d like a lot more of the ?both/and?.

So do grant making foundations. They put their money where my mouth is
because of what I have delivered and am capable of delivering in the
future.

AMSAT and ORI work with AREx is achieving almost all of the goals you
outline about advanced operations. That?s some good news!

AREx work output is open source, so all can benefit and everything can be
reused in case of the inevitable changes, delays, or redirections from the
top.

I wanted to bring much more of this sort of work to AMSAT as a Director.
It?s been a bummer to show up to a locked door, but this election could
turn that tide.

I?m optimistic.

Thank you,
-Michelle W5NYV




On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 06:56 Robert Switzer via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

>  Clint,
> IMO there is room to promote new participation with basic FM repeaters in
> the sky, while at the same time providing
> an architecture and program for advanced operations.  The vision there is
> to also provide a blueprint for entry-level
> participation at very reasonable cost.  More work than a tape measure and
> an HT but the vision was definitely to
> help relative newcomers take it to the next level.
> There's room for both, no?
> Rob KA2CZU
>     On Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 11:26:00 PM EDT, Clint Bradford via
> AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>  These new projects - seems like they are ?marketed? towards a very small
> segment os satellite operators.
>
> Is there truly a worthwhile ?return on investment" when a ground station
> might have to include ?
>
>  ? ? radio system is a 10 GHz downlink that will support 1 Mbps.
> You'll need a 10 GHz antenna that can be steered to track a LEO
> satellite and probably a low-noise block downconverter (LNB)
> feeding an SDR.  I think similar receivers are used for QO-100,
> so a Google search may yield some designs that are currently
> working, although QO-100 is nearly stationary ? ?
>
> Feels like a very few hams will partake ? Exciting, indeed. But surely
> not geared to the masses ?
>
> Clint Bradford K6LCS
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
-- 
-Michelle W5NYV

"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."

From wa4sca at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 14:31:39 2020
From: wa4sca at gmail.com (Alan)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 09:31:39 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2WPC32kB5ofoBPYg49N0yh-_Y2QjmTBnCSS115uCNx3SQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4a9b3a4d89d091e19cc5b013558b3c85@papays.com>
	<000001d66013$fa3300e0$ee9902a0$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XdvhJpLxBPNdZiUw1iwj6goccGkC3OP+YJobMi9k6a5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<001401d66020$87a86b70$96f94250$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2WPC32kB5ofoBPYg49N0yh-_Y2QjmTBnCSS115uCNx3SQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000401d66034$cfe18e80$6fa4ab80$@gmail.com>

Michelle,
 
> Describing me publicly as a ?target? that you want to bomb makes one of us look bad... and it isn?t me.
 
You are probably one of only two people on this list who could possibly twist/spin/distort what I clearly meant into what you claim.  Given the complete ludicrousness of that, I will just wish you a good and healthful day.
 
73,
 
Alan
WA4SCA
 
 
From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:mountain.michelle at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:22 AM
To: APBIDDLE at mailaps.org; Alan <wa4sca at gmail.com>
Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
 
Describing me publicly as a ?target? that you want to bomb makes one of us look bad... and it isn?t me.
 
Violent responses to ordinary questions about financial oversight have been the pattern from the majority of the absentee board. 
 
There certainly was smoke. It lead to real fires. We put some of them out without anyone getting bothered.
 
The voters are the fire department of last resort for a member society. If you are out there, we need your help. 
 
Fewer war-obsessed Directors would result in immediate improvement for everyone. 
 
Please vote for McGwier, DeFelice, and Johns. 
 
-mdt
 
 
 
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 05:19 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org> > wrote:
Michelle,

Thanks for confirming my hypothesis on your tactics and actual motivations.  A lightning response consisting of a dense smokescreen, or perhaps heavy flack, means I am over the target.  :)

73,

Alan
WA4SCA


-------------------------------------
You can fool some of the people all of the time, 
all of the people some of the time, and that is usually sufficient.






<-----Original Message-----
<From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:mountain.michelle at gmail.com <mailto:mountain.michelle at gmail.com> ]
<Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:07 AM
<To: APBIDDLE at mailaps.org <mailto:APBIDDLE at mailaps.org> ; Alan <wa4sca at gmail.com <mailto:wa4sca at gmail.com> >
<Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org> 
<Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
<
<That is true.
<
<It?s a classic hostile takeover when the doors are locked against a minority of the Directors,
<and when company assets are used for personal reasons.
<
<I add that secretly hiring lawyers to harass and obstruct elected leaders isn?t a hostile
<takeover. It?s just plain hostile.
<
<Lying about it and trying to cover it up is offensive.
<
<Unlike other things that we do, this isn?t rocket science.
<
<A stagnant board majority that freaks out and refuses to meet is not an asset to the
<corporation.
<
<Thanks to Alan for highlighting this aspect.
<
<-Michelle W5NYV
<
<On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 03:43 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>  <mailto:amsat- <mailto:amsat-> 
<bb at amsat.org <mailto:bb at amsat.org> > > wrote:
<
<
<       John,
<
<       It is more accurate to think of it as an attempted hostile takeover rather
<       than a civil war, even though it is driven by ego and ideology rather than
<       money. That is important when understanding the tools being used, and in
<       looking at the range of possible resolutions. They are somewhat different in
<       the two cases.
<
<       73,
<
<       Alan
<       WA4SCA
<
<
<
<
<       <-----Original Message-----
<       <From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org>  <mailto:amsat-bb- <mailto:amsat-bb-> 
<bounces at amsat.org <mailto:bounces at amsat.org> > ] On Behalf Of john--- via
<       <AMSAT-BB
<       <Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:36 PM
<       <To: amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>  <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org> >
<       <Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
<       <
<       <One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago, "What is going on
<       <with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war. And it is
<       <nasty and it's tearing us apart.
<       <
<       <With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is hard to determine
<       <the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to have any
<       <chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real issues becomes
<       <clear.
<       <
<       <The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago when members
<       <started talking about the ballots they were receiving in the mail.
<       <Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem will go away.
<       < Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and Michelle are not
<       <on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the election is
<       <over.
<       <
<       <My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived yesterday. And so did
<       <the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I read the
<       <statements and have been reading the candidate's comments on other
<       <social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked about some of
<       <the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular Board
<       <meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the third vote
<       <required to demand General Board meetings be held regularly! That's
<       <about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements. The same person
<       <promised to do some other things as well if elected; some helpful and
<       <some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them..
<       <
<       <A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote for. He
<       <documented everyone's credentials, experience, past efforts with AMSAT
<       <along with comments about personal interactions, if any. Those are good
<       <things to consider. But what about the future? What issues does the
<       <candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to deal with them?
<       <
<       <To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way to bring our
<       <Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an agreement
<       <with all parties that will restore civility and respect for all members,
<       <a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is suggesting
<       <them, as much transparency as the law permits along with fiscal
<       <responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've pondered how
<       <to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of working. But
<       <I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I will defer to
<       <the candidates to come up with their own ideas.
<       <
<       <I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail a plan to
<       <deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are things that
<       <must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high school
<       <education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you should be able
<       <to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the candidates with
<       <the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting their votes.
<       < Let's see what happens!
<       <
<       <73, John K8YSE
<       <_______________________________________________
<       <Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>  <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> > . AMSAT-NA
<makes this open forum available
<       <to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
<       expressed
<       <are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
<       AMSAT-NA.
<       <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
<       <Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
<
<       _______________________________________________
<       Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>  <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> > . AMSAT-NA
<makes this open forum available
<       to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
<expressed
<       are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
<       Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
<       Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
<
<
<--
<
<-Michelle W5NYV
<
<
<"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
<


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> . AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
-- 
-Michelle W5NYV
"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
 

From wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc  Wed Jul 22 15:02:08 2020
From: wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc (Burns Fisher)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 11:02:08 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] LVB Tracker vs. Yeasu GS-232B
In-Reply-To: <15717753-5ff4-2bc3-b0b3-2014fd29d48a@shirville.com>
References: <1712891565.5238819.1595377458391.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1712891565.5238819.1595377458391@mail.yahoo.com>
	<524462590.3689329.1595382407014@mail.yahoo.com>
	<15717753-5ff4-2bc3-b0b3-2014fd29d48a@shirville.com>
Message-ID: <CABX7KxWjvtg+M9S1vPJkja47VNiWQns0V4o+hgUbVXi_ExAfOA@mail.gmail.com>

I believe that the FoxDelta is more-or-less a clone of the LVB.  I have an
LVB from when AMSAT-NA was selling them pre-built, and it certainly works
fine.  I know others with the FoxDelta and it also works fine.  If I were
starting over and choosing between the two, since I'm willing to do some
building I'd certainly choose the LVB kit to support AMSAT-UK.

73, Burns WB1FJ

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 4:49 AM Graham Shirville via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Hi Robert,
>
> Try AMSAT-UK's shop - they currently have 19  full kits (but no case) in
> stock!
> https://shop.amsat-uk.org/LVB_Tracker_-_Complete_kit/p3815740_16276510.aspx
>
> 73
>
> Graham G3VZV
>
> On 22/07/2020 02:46, aj9n--- via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > I would look into getting the Labjack U12 or U3.  SatPC32 has the
> schematic for the "piggyback" that goes between the Labjack and the control
> box.
> > Labjack:
> > https://labjack.com/products/u12
> > https://labjack.com/products/u3
> > The piggybacks:
> > http://www.dk1tb.de/lj_piggyback.JPG
> > http://www.dk1tb.de/lj_piggyback_u3.JPG
> > I have used the U12; it works great.  Something to consider.
> > 73,Charlie Sufana AJ9NOne of the ARISS mentors
> >
> > In a message dated 2020-07-21 20:25:25 Eastern Standard Time,
> amsat-bb at amsat.org writes:
> >
> > What is the status of the LVB Tracker - I notice it was once promoted by
> AmSat, but is currently out of stock.
> > The Yeasu GS-232B feels a little over priced at $589.
> > What is the current recommendation for connecting the Yeasu G-5500 to
> tracking software?
> > [1] For reference, AmSat:
> https://www.amsat.org/product/lvb-tracker-complete/[2] For reference,
> HRO: https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-002778
> > 73
> > Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License. http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> . http://www.spaceCommunicator.club
> > . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space
> Exploration
> > Silly Joke: What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi
> Cliff!
> > He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas
> Paine_______________________________________________Sent via
> AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum availableto all
> interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressedare solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of AMSAT-NA.Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
> satellite program!Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From db at db.net  Wed Jul 22 14:51:46 2020
From: db at db.net (Diane Bruce)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 10:51:46 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] "Walking and chewing gun at the same time"
In-Reply-To: <558edbb5-6e2a-1fa8-8eb7-f7b5fdf202a4@charter.net>
References: <558edbb5-6e2a-1fa8-8eb7-f7b5fdf202a4@charter.net>
Message-ID: <20200722145146.GA43769@night.db.net>

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 09:13:59AM -0400, Michael Tondee via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> So now the line is that an HEO or a GEO, besides being expensive to launch,
> will be difficult and expensive for the average ham to acquire the equipment
> for so we should just forget about it? Is that what I'm reading? The hams I
> once knew, never backed down from a technical challenge. By all accounts it
> wasn't exactly "easy" to build an AO-40 station but a whole bunch of hams

For years Larry Kayser (SK) (VE3QB then VA3LK) tried to get me interested
in satellite operation. It took AO-40 and a demonstration by Clare
Fowler (VE3NPC) at our local Hamfest to get me really excited. 

> managed to get it done. There was a time when generating and receiving an
> SSTV signal was an enormously involved process but somehow the early
> innovators in the field got it done. Now it's one of the more simple and

I was at Syd Horne's (VE3EGO) talk at the OARC when he was first
doing SSTV. That P7 monitor was pretty harsh on the eyes. ;)


> inexpensive things to do. Hams have always overcome technical challenges.
> It's what we do, or we used to do it anyway.

So many hams complained about that "Donald Duck" sound on HF but the
gear came down in price.

> 
> ?Correct me if I'm wrong but AMSAT used to be able to walk and chew gum at
> the same time. We had AO-40 and a myriad of other sats with varying degrees
> of challenge to working them. I don't think anyone is saying that we should

One thing no one has mentioned yet is the possibility of our own Sat
system and linking FM repeaters on the ground.

> just abandon the so called "easy sat" concept. Far from it. If that's what
> you enjoy, then more power to you but there is a large number of people out

This argument has been going on forever. There is room for both.
Personally I think I may have been on a FM sat once or twice. To each
their own. 

> here that want something more than that. We enjoy the challenge. It's what
> drew us to this side of the hobby in the first place.? Why can't we do

Yes! It's what got me on the sats in the first place. I made one or
two cw contacts on AO-40, my dish was sitting on a kitchen chair in the
driveway in the winter no less, I was waving an Arrow antenna in the living
room and did cw. Yes, that was a real challenge but so fun.
Then AO-40 died as I got my dish up the tower properly. :-(

Challenge is part of the hobby and what makes it exciting!
https://www.amsat.org/amsat/archive/amsat-bb/200501/msg00097.html

> both?? We used to do that back when I was an enthusiastic member of this
> organization and I think it can be done again. I wouldn't still be here on
> this list hoping and praying for a change in it's direction and a return to
> it's former glory and status if I didn't.

I'm the same way.

> 
> 73,
> 
> Michael W4HIJ
> 

> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
FWIW I'm a life member.

73 Diane VA3DB
-- 
- db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db

From wizardofzid at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 15:54:21 2020
From: wizardofzid at gmail.com (Russ Kinner)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 08:54:21 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upgrade of equipment
Message-ID: <ef2xeumxgu9eowrxrkj6u6ne.1595433261234@email.android.com>

When I first got my license, 2 meters was the highest freq. typically used, 440 was an experimenters band and anything above that was AT&T Microwave links for phone and network video.  It took a few years but now you can buy 1.2 GHz gear from several sources.  The experimenters area becomes common to all in a few years.  I

At my radio beginning, there were no PCs, mobile radios were crystal controlled mostly, and you bought a keypad to generate telephone tone pairs to use a repeater auto-patch and wired it in yourself.  Things change to meet the demand and it won't take long to have microwave gear and antennas easily available.  Just takes a demand that a HEO or better satellite in orbit generates.  It's one of the reasons AO-92 has L/v mode.  

I welcome the change.

Rusty, WA8ZID

From rhyolite at leikhim.com  Wed Jul 22 16:12:43 2020
From: rhyolite at leikhim.com (Joe Leikhim)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:12:43 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb]  "Walking and chewing gun at the same time"
Message-ID: <90a2d34c-3b70-8b1d-78ee-d542fbec7667@leikhim.com>

YUP, WHAT HE SAID RIGHT THERE BELOW:

"So now the line is that an HEO or a GEO, besides being expensive to
launch, will be difficult and expensive for the average ham to acquire
the equipment for so we should just forget about it? Is that what I'm
reading? The hams I once knew, never backed down from a technical
challenge. By all accounts it wasn't exactly "easy" to build an AO-40
station but a whole bunch of hams managed to get it done. There was a
time when generating and receiving an SSTV signal was an enormously
involved process but somehow the early innovators in the field got it
done. Now it's one of the more simple and inexpensive things to do. Hams
have always overcome technical challenges. It's what we do, or we used
to do it anyway.

  ?Correct me if I'm wrong but AMSAT used to be able to walk and chew gum
at the same time. We had AO-40 and a myriad of other sats with varying
degrees of challenge to working them. I don't think anyone is saying
that we should just abandon the so called "easy sat" concept. Far from
it. If that's what you enjoy, then more power to you but there is a
large number of people out here that want something more than that. We
enjoy the challenge. It's what drew us to this side of the hobby in the
first place.? Why can't we do both?? We used to do that back when I was
an enthusiastic member of this organization and I think it can be done
again. I wouldn't still be here on this list hoping and praying for a
change in it's direction and a return to it's former glory and status if
I didn't.

73,

Michael W4HIJ"

-- 
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

JLeikhim at Leikhim.com

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM


From n4laz at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 22 16:45:21 2020
From: n4laz at yahoo.com (Andrew Lazenby)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 16:45:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO
References: <287006801.5573097.1595436321317.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <287006801.5573097.1595436321317@mail.yahoo.com>

Hello EveryoneI recently joined Amsat because I felt like a bit of a hypocrite for complaining about things, and not doing my part to change them.?One thing that does bug me is the HEO satellites having microwave uplinks and downlinks. I think that will greatly limit the clientele that will be able to use these.
?I have head many older hams gripe about LEO satellites and reflect back on how back in the day there would be passes up for hours! Many of them where using drifty transverters with terrible noise figures, turning antennas with tv rotators and no preamp! The argument that I have heard to move to mircowave uplinks and downlinks is lower noise, but if it worked with them back then, then what's changed??
Something else to consider is that the microwave spectrum is under fire from commercial interest more and more. Why not consider like a U/L or L/U transponder? That would bring the envelope a little closer to where the average ham could operate with out investing in some serious equipment, while keeping the dream of HEO alive for the large percentage of satellite operators, and not just a handful???
Forgive me if Im wrong, but I just wanted to put my 2 cents in the pot. If we all would learn to work together as much as we fuss we would be making some tracks.?Thanks everyone,?Andrew N4LAZ?
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From bruce at perens.com  Wed Jul 22 16:46:03 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 09:46:03 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <000401d66034$cfe18e80$6fa4ab80$@gmail.com>
References: <4a9b3a4d89d091e19cc5b013558b3c85@papays.com>
	<000001d66013$fa3300e0$ee9902a0$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XdvhJpLxBPNdZiUw1iwj6goccGkC3OP+YJobMi9k6a5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<001401d66020$87a86b70$96f94250$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2WPC32kB5ofoBPYg49N0yh-_Y2QjmTBnCSS115uCNx3SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000401d66034$cfe18e80$6fa4ab80$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOt4zaBGz-1xQwrUeU3xxOkmNZKJRgvCzWYUZDWA7UA8Rw@mail.gmail.com>

One of my earlier forays into amateur radio policy was to found "No-Code
International" and lobby to get rid of the Morse Code test worldwide. We
appeared at many conferences and I even went to Iceland to lobby their IARU
vote, which was the same as that of the USA even though I had half of the
hams in the whole country in one room where I was speaking.

During this period, I expected to be punched out or spat upon by angry
hams. But I was impressed with the civil behavior of hams. Although there
were complaints to ARRL directors that my table was even admitted to the
Division conference, I think only one person cursed me out. And he very
graciously made up after the decision was made.

Certainly no one ever said it was a "hostile takeover". To treat an
election as that is truly ludicrous.

If you like the descent into mediocrity that AMSAT has been on for a
decade, by all means vote for the incumbents. We will work on the issue
over at ORI, instead of AMSAT, and don't be surprised when we continue to
get the participation and grants that were previously directed toward AMSAT.

But there is an alternative. If you want a way out of AMSAT's decline,
please vote for these candidates:

Bob McGwier N4HY
Howie DeFelice AB2S
Jeff Johns WE4B

Thanks

Bruce

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 7:58 AM Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Michelle,
>
> > Describing me publicly as a ?target? that you want to bomb makes one of
> us look bad... and it isn?t me.
>
> You are probably one of only two people on this list who could possibly
> twist/spin/distort what I clearly meant into what you claim.  Given the
> complete ludicrousness of that, I will just wish you a good and healthful
> day.
>
> 73,
>
> Alan
> WA4SCA
>
>
> From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:mountain.michelle at gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:22 AM
> To: APBIDDLE at mailaps.org; Alan <wa4sca at gmail.com>
> Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
> consider.
>
> Describing me publicly as a ?target? that you want to bomb makes one of us
> look bad... and it isn?t me.
>
> Violent responses to ordinary questions about financial oversight have
> been the pattern from the majority of the absentee board.
>
> There certainly was smoke. It lead to real fires. We put some of them out
> without anyone getting bothered.
>
> The voters are the fire department of last resort for a member society. If
> you are out there, we need your help.
>
> Fewer war-obsessed Directors would result in immediate improvement for
> everyone.
>
> Please vote for McGwier, DeFelice, and Johns.
>
> -mdt
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 05:19 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org
> <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org> > wrote:
> Michelle,
>
> Thanks for confirming my hypothesis on your tactics and actual
> motivations.  A lightning response consisting of a dense smokescreen, or
> perhaps heavy flack, means I am over the target.  :)
>
> 73,
>
> Alan
> WA4SCA
>
>
> -------------------------------------
> You can fool some of the people all of the time,
> all of the people some of the time, and that is usually sufficient.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <-----Original Message-----
> <From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:mountain.michelle at gmail.com <mailto:
> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> ]
> <Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:07 AM
> <To: APBIDDLE at mailaps.org <mailto:APBIDDLE at mailaps.org> ; Alan <
> wa4sca at gmail.com <mailto:wa4sca at gmail.com> >
> <Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> <Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
> consider.
> <
> <That is true.
> <
> <It?s a classic hostile takeover when the doors are locked against a
> minority of the Directors,
> <and when company assets are used for personal reasons.
> <
> <I add that secretly hiring lawyers to harass and obstruct elected leaders
> isn?t a hostile
> <takeover. It?s just plain hostile.
> <
> <Lying about it and trying to cover it up is offensive.
> <
> <Unlike other things that we do, this isn?t rocket science.
> <
> <A stagnant board majority that freaks out and refuses to meet is not an
> asset to the
> <corporation.
> <
> <Thanks to Alan for highlighting this aspect.
> <
> <-Michelle W5NYV
> <
> <On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 03:43 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org
> <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>  <mailto:amsat- <mailto:amsat->
> <bb at amsat.org <mailto:bb at amsat.org> > > wrote:
> <
> <
> <       John,
> <
> <       It is more accurate to think of it as an attempted hostile
> takeover rather
> <       than a civil war, even though it is driven by ego and ideology
> rather than
> <       money. That is important when understanding the tools being used,
> and in
> <       looking at the range of possible resolutions. They are somewhat
> different in
> <       the two cases.
> <
> <       73,
> <
> <       Alan
> <       WA4SCA
> <
> <
> <
> <
> <       <-----Original Message-----
> <       <From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org <mailto:
> amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org>  <mailto:amsat-bb- <mailto:amsat-bb->
> <bounces at amsat.org <mailto:bounces at amsat.org> > ] On Behalf Of john--- via
> <       <AMSAT-BB
> <       <Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:36 PM
> <       <To: amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>  <mailto:
> amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org> >
> <       <Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
> consider.
> <       <
> <       <One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago, "What is
> going on
> <       <with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war. And it is
> <       <nasty and it's tearing us apart.
> <       <
> <       <With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is hard to
> determine
> <       <the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to have any
> <       <chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real issues
> becomes
> <       <clear.
> <       <
> <       <The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago when
> members
> <       <started talking about the ballots they were receiving in the mail.
> <       <Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem will
> go away.
> <       < Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and Michelle
> are not
> <       <on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the
> election is
> <       <over.
> <       <
> <       <My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived yesterday. And
> so did
> <       <the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I read the
> <       <statements and have been reading the candidate's comments on other
> <       <social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked about some
> of
> <       <the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular Board
> <       <meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the third vote
> <       <required to demand General Board meetings be held regularly!
> That's
> <       <about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements. The same
> person
> <       <promised to do some other things as well if elected; some helpful
> and
> <       <some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them..
> <       <
> <       <A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote for. He
> <       <documented everyone's credentials, experience, past efforts with
> AMSAT
> <       <along with comments about personal interactions, if any. Those
> are good
> <       <things to consider. But what about the future? What issues does
> the
> <       <candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to deal with
> them?
> <       <
> <       <To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way to
> bring our
> <       <Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an
> agreement
> <       <with all parties that will restore civility and respect for all
> members,
> <       <a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is
> suggesting
> <       <them, as much transparency as the law permits along with fiscal
> <       <responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've
> pondered how
> <       <to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of working.
> But
> <       <I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I will
> defer to
> <       <the candidates to come up with their own ideas.
> <       <
> <       <I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail a plan
> to
> <       <deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are things that
> <       <must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high school
> <       <education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you should be
> able
> <       <to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the
> candidates with
> <       <the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting their
> votes.
> <       < Let's see what happens!
> <       <
> <       <73, John K8YSE
> <       <_______________________________________________
> <       <Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>  <mailto:
> AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> > . AMSAT-NA
> <makes this open forum available
> <       <to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> <       expressed
> <       <are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of
> <       AMSAT-NA.
> <       <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> <       <Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> <
> <       _______________________________________________
> <       Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>  <mailto:
> AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> > . AMSAT-NA
> <makes this open forum available
> <       to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> <expressed
> <       are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of AMSAT-NA.
> <       Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> <       Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> <
> <
> <--
> <
> <-Michelle W5NYV
> <
> <
> <"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
> <
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> . AMSAT-NA makes
> this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> --
> -Michelle W5NYV
> "Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Wed Jul 22 16:55:12 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 11:55:12 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] "Walking and chewing gun at the same time"
In-Reply-To: <20200722145146.GA43769@night.db.net>
References: <558edbb5-6e2a-1fa8-8eb7-f7b5fdf202a4@charter.net>
	<20200722145146.GA43769@night.db.net>
Message-ID: <8ffab06d-a99e-5052-2d13-31fe630a73bd@pobox.com>

On 07/22/20 09:51, Diane Bruce via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>> here that want something more than that. We enjoy the challenge. It's what
>> drew us to this side of the hobby in the first place.? Why can't we do
> Yes! It's what got me on the sats in the first place.

I'll echo this sentiment.

In my case, building equipment is my primary focus and adds to my 
operating enjoyment. My most recent homebrew equipment includes a 3D 
printed 70cm-band passive Lindenblad antenna, previously mentioned on 
this list, and a complementary LNA built from scratch using a MAX2640 
device. The latter has taken 11 years to realize, based on the date I 
put on the PCB silkscreen. :-)

The 3D printed antenna spreader is being written up now and will be 
submitted to the Journal, with the STL and OpenSCAD source files 
available for anyone to use/enhance under a BSD-like license.

I completely understand that some amateurs will focus on the operational 
aspects of the hobby and have little to no interest in 
designing/building hardware. We need this segment of our demographic, 
just as much as we need the builders.

It is my hope that more operators discover the enjoyment of building, 
and that we have more VHF/UHF/microwave homebrew hardware operating on 
the ground with satellites. It isn't necessary to have the latest 
multi-kilo-buck touch-screen one-box-does-everything rig to work the 
satellites.

It's also my hope that I find some time to work a few of you, now that I 
have a workable antenna setup. ;-)

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 22 16:58:13 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 09:58:13 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is This AMSAT's Future?
In-Reply-To: <2E07D201-8BB9-4831-85B8-C6DC745CDE4A@mac.com>
References: <2E07D201-8BB9-4831-85B8-C6DC745CDE4A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <d645b5e0-8611-484b-9241-8ba348714e5d@yahoo.com>

Thank you. I stand by my statement. Hams have met similar challenges successfully in the past.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 22, 2020, 00:25, at 00:25, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>> This could very well be. Tech changes over time. IMHO, Hams need to
>change over time to keep the hobby viable.
>
>That required station is quite a jump from enjoying LEOs - and getting
>involved in satellite communications for well under $200, though.
>
>Clint Bradford K6LCS
>- Still having clubs approach me for info on ?Getting Started ? ? (g)
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 22 17:02:20 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 10:02:20 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is This AMSAT's Future?
In-Reply-To: <b72883eb-0439-a677-54a0-6ccdc59845ce@pobox.com>
References: <2E07D201-8BB9-4831-85B8-C6DC745CDE4A@mac.com>
	<b72883eb-0439-a677-54a0-6ccdc59845ce@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <9bda0458-ff19-4a2c-96da-125f19f2628f@yahoo.com>

Exactomento Zach. I'm a member of a local m/wave club and costs don't seem to be a detriment to getting on the air. Lots & lots of cheap commercial gear is available. A soldering iron & some parts tweaking & you've got a m/wave station.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 22, 2020, 06:51, at 06:51, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>On 07/22/20 02:23, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>>>> This could very well be. Tech changes over time. IMHO, Hams need to
>change over time to keep the hobby viable.
>> 
>> That required station is quite a jump from enjoying LEOs - and
>getting involved in satellite communications for well under $200,
>though.
>
>There will always be some cost to this hobby, part of which can be 
>mitigated by more home-brewing of equipment. However, if one doesn't 
>want scratch-build the entire system, there are rather inexpensive 
>solutions from commercial components.
>
>OZ1BXM has an overview of the 13cm (2.4 GHz) uplink / 3cm (10 GHz) 
>downlink system here:
>
>https://oz1bxm.dk/sat/QO100-rig.html
>
>Seems like the receive chain is quite simple and cheap. I recently 
>acquired a 10 GHz LNB, new in a box, from eBay for $20. The RTL-SDR is 
>about another $20, and a bias-tee is probably $10, if one can't cobble 
>it together from the junk bin.
>
>The transmit path requires a 2.4 GHz radio or converter, which is
>likely 
>the most expensive part of the whole system.
>
>One could argue that this setup pushes new operators toward learning to
>
>track and listen before trying to transmit. This is probably a good
>thing.
>
>The 10 GHz information will be useful for GOLF-1's microwave
>capabilities.
>
>--- Zach
>N0ZGO
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From kc5qbc at swbell.net  Wed Jul 22 17:03:24 2020
From: kc5qbc at swbell.net (Floyd Rodgers)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:03:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Dual band cavity filter?
In-Reply-To: <CALdCfN+7jzRh9Twv9jhvn_MxCgz9nSvf5f6kbeF1sgJA=-+GgA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALdCfNJKuAQ73BT_jZwDSu1O0uh=zfiZBFSekjwoLznstuyhoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<965077905.5162526.1595368429990@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CALdCfN+7jzRh9Twv9jhvn_MxCgz9nSvf5f6kbeF1sgJA=-+GgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1221018575.5579642.1595437404629@mail.yahoo.com>

 Could you give more specifics of what you are trying to do? If it is intermod suppression?why not just use one or two comet or diamond duplexers??
    On Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 06:32:48 PM CDT, Robert Bruninga via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 1-in 2-out is fallback but only if impossible for 1 in and 1 out.

Do you think if we make the UHF closer to the 3rd harmonic of the VHF that
we can make it work with one cavity?
I assume that due to stray effects that the UHF peak will NOT be exactly
the 3rd harmonic so there can be some isolation maybe.

Since the radio is dual band full duplex, I wonder if it can protect itself
if one TX on vhf and RX on 3rd harmonic.? ALl that power into the UHF front
end?

I'd start building but just today in my Chemo saga, my right arm is
almost useless? I have to move my right hand from mouse to keyboard with
my left hand.? So whipping up something is a dream at this point.? This has
come on suddenly...

Bob
P

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 5:53 PM GEO Badger <w3ab at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Bob,
>
> You've stirred, not shaken, some ideas in my pea brain. 2 band/1 input
> in-out is the difficult part. That's why it's expensive. Of course the
> machining adds cost too.
>
> How about 2 band/1 input- 2 outputs?
>
> ---
> Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side
>
> 73 de W3AB/GEO
>
> http://www.w3ab.org
>
> You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out".
>
>
> On Monday, July 20, 2020, 06:37:48 AM PDT, Robert Bruninga via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>
> Many of us use dual band radios but when operating on mountains or hills we
> need a front end cavity filter.? The DCI dual band helical filter is ideal
> but I just learned it is $530!
>
> I'm starting to visualize? a cavity filter made out of a piece of aluminum
> drain pipe.? With a capacitive screw at the top for tuning VHF and a
> smaller one about 1/3rd the way up for UHF.
>
> My theory is that the lower UHF capacitance will be at a UHF high-Z point
> and will tune the UHF nicely and the one at the top will tune the VHF
> nicely.? Of course with very much interaction.
>
> Unfortunately for our annual Golden Packet Event, the 3rd harmonic of our
> APRS VHF operating frequency is at 432 and our use of APRS UHF talking freq
> at 445.925 is quite away away.
>
> Maybe if such a single cavity design could work, we could use the event's
> UHF voice coordination frequency closer to the 3rd harmonic to make the
> filter easier or possible to tune dual band? (Though we night then also
> Desense voice with every packet).
>
> I want it to buildable from Home Depot and common tools.? Wont be as good
> as the $530 DCI filter, but maybe close enough for our event.
>
> It wont be robust and it wont be quality, but might work for us AND amsat
> dual band operators in the field.
>
> my big assumption is that a 1/4 wave cavity filter will also work on its
> 3rd harmonic?? We only need to knock down QRM to prevent desense.
>
> Anyone have cheaper than $530 solutions?
>
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From jean.marc.momple at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 17:21:38 2020
From: jean.marc.momple at gmail.com (Jean Marc Momple)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 21:21:38 +0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO
In-Reply-To: <287006801.5573097.1595436321317@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <287006801.5573097.1595436321317.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<287006801.5573097.1595436321317@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A3FD6189-0A58-495B-83F9-7AD1DD4BD5E3@gmail.com>

Andrew,

I wish to share with you the example of QO-100 that unfortunately cannot be experience by US OM's. In a nutshell:

1) A QO-100 Ground Station cost about 1/2 that a duplex (V/U or UV) FM LEO setup in spite using 2.4Ghz as uplink and 10GHz downlink. For a HEO you will have to add the cost of a ele/azm rotator fo sure. And for sure on V/U or U/V when the HEO at apogee you will need more serious antenna and rotator anyway than waving to it with an arrow or similar rig. Thus adding a 70cm dish or even a 1.2m one on your tracking system is not a great deal.
2) A HEO may have both as expressed by some on this forum. I mean microwave and V/U or U/V FM or Linear transponders. This would be really nice.

The point is that using microwave frequencies is not so hard as one may think and not expensive by using repurposed equipment such as TV LNB?s, SDR?s and wifi booster as well proven with QO-100.

Hope this helps.

Jean Marc (3B8DU)

> On Jul 22, 2020, at 8:45 PM, Andrew Lazenby via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> Hello EveryoneI recently joined Amsat because I felt like a bit of a hypocrite for complaining about things, and not doing my part to change them. One thing that does bug me is the HEO satellites having microwave uplinks and downlinks. I think that will greatly limit the clientele that will be able to use these.
>  I have head many older hams gripe about LEO satellites and reflect back on how back in the day there would be passes up for hours! Many of them where using drifty transverters with terrible noise figures, turning antennas with tv rotators and no preamp! The argument that I have heard to move to mircowave uplinks and downlinks is lower noise, but if it worked with them back then, then what's changed? 
> Something else to consider is that the microwave spectrum is under fire from commercial interest more and more. Why not consider like a U/L or L/U transponder? That would bring the envelope a little closer to where the average ham could operate with out investing in some serious equipment, while keeping the dream of HEO alive for the large percentage of satellite operators, and not just a handful?  
> Forgive me if Im wrong, but I just wanted to put my 2 cents in the pot. If we all would learn to work together as much as we fuss we would be making some tracks. Thanks everyone, Andrew N4LAZ 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net  Wed Jul 22 17:30:35 2020
From: amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net (Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK))
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:30:35 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO
In-Reply-To: <287006801.5573097.1595436321317@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <287006801.5573097.1595436321317.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<287006801.5573097.1595436321317@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAN6TEUfamk4oNW-skiVFe9qAdi6gZHKt+VS92PemdX-bgSrdjw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Andrew!

I am all for a variety of satellites. When we had AO-51 in the 2000s, I
found the pieces to work its V/S FM repeater as I started working
satellites. Doppler at 2.4 GHz made tuning those downlinks an almost
constant thing on those passes, but it was fun. We have the sort of
transponder you mentioned in your post with AO-92's L/V FM repeater
right now. We are only permitted to use the 1.2 GHz band for satellite
uplinks, not downlinks.

Many satellite operators now have the 1.2 GHz uplink capability with
the IC-9700, but the only time AO-92 L/V is available appears to be
inconvenient for many who might want to try it right now (Tuesday
evenings and Wednesday mornings in North America). We were told that
the switch from a Sunday UTC activation (Saturday nights and Sunday
mornings in North America) last year was not going to be a permanent
change. I think there would be more new call signs heard on AO-92 L/V
with those IC-9700s and other radios, if that mode was available at a
more convenient time for those who have work or school commitments
during the week. It isn't like we lack V/U or U/V FM satellites right
now.

73!





Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK









On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 4:46 PM Andrew Lazenby via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Hello EveryoneI recently joined Amsat because I felt like a bit of a
> hypocrite for complaining about things, and not doing my part to change
> them. One thing that does bug me is the HEO satellites having microwave
> uplinks and downlinks. I think that will greatly limit the clientele that
> will be able to use these.
>  I have head many older hams gripe about LEO satellites and reflect back
> on how back in the day there would be passes up for hours! Many of them
> where using drifty transverters with terrible noise figures, turning
> antennas with tv rotators and no preamp! The argument that I have heard to
> move to mircowave uplinks and downlinks is lower noise, but if it worked
> with them back then, then what's changed?
> Something else to consider is that the microwave spectrum is under fire
> from commercial interest more and more. Why not consider like a U/L or L/U
> transponder? That would bring the envelope a little closer to where the
> average ham could operate with out investing in some serious equipment,
> while keeping the dream of HEO alive for the large percentage of satellite
> operators, and not just a handful?
> Forgive me if Im wrong, but I just wanted to put my 2 cents in the pot. If
> we all would learn to work together as much as we fuss we would be making
> some tracks. Thanks everyone, Andrew N4LAZ
>
>

From w2ev at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 22 17:55:40 2020
From: w2ev at yahoo.com (Ev Tupis)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:55:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is This AMSAT's Future?
In-Reply-To: <9bda0458-ff19-4a2c-96da-125f19f2628f@yahoo.com>
References: <2E07D201-8BB9-4831-85B8-C6DC745CDE4A@mac.com>
	<b72883eb-0439-a677-54a0-6ccdc59845ce@pobox.com>
	<9bda0458-ff19-4a2c-96da-125f19f2628f@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1878678057.5597574.1595440540375@mail.yahoo.com>

People will find money for the things they want to do.

On the other hand, cost is a convenient scapegoat.? Lol.

Ev, W2EV







On Wednesday, July 22, 2020, 01:19:30 PM EDT, W3AB/GEO via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 





Exactomento Zach. I'm a member of a local m/wave club and costs don't seem to be a detriment to getting on the air. Lots & lots of cheap commercial gear is available. A soldering iron & some parts tweaking & you've got a m/wave station.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 22, 2020, 06:51, at 06:51, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>On 07/22/20 02:23, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>>>> This could very well be. Tech changes over time. IMHO, Hams need to
>change over time to keep the hobby viable.
>> 
>> That required station is quite a jump from enjoying LEOs - and
>getting involved in satellite communications for well under $200,
>though.
>
>There will always be some cost to this hobby, part of which can be 
>mitigated by more home-brewing of equipment. However, if one doesn't 
>want scratch-build the entire system, there are rather inexpensive 
>solutions from commercial components.
>
>OZ1BXM has an overview of the 13cm (2.4 GHz) uplink / 3cm (10 GHz) 
>downlink system here:
>
>https://oz1bxm.dk/sat/QO100-rig.html
>
>Seems like the receive chain is quite simple and cheap. I recently 
>acquired a 10 GHz LNB, new in a box, from eBay for $20. The RTL-SDR is 
>about another $20, and a bias-tee is probably $10, if one can't cobble 
>it together from the junk bin.
>
>The transmit path requires a 2.4 GHz radio or converter, which is
>likely 
>the most expensive part of the whole system.
>
>One could argue that this setup pushes new operators toward learning to
>
>track and listen before trying to transmit. This is probably a good
>thing.
>
>The 10 GHz information will be useful for GOLF-1's microwave
>capabilities.
>
>--- Zach
>N0ZGO
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 18:04:18 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 14:04:18 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOt4zaBGz-1xQwrUeU3xxOkmNZKJRgvCzWYUZDWA7UA8Rw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4a9b3a4d89d091e19cc5b013558b3c85@papays.com>
	<000001d66013$fa3300e0$ee9902a0$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XdvhJpLxBPNdZiUw1iwj6goccGkC3OP+YJobMi9k6a5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<001401d66020$87a86b70$96f94250$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2WPC32kB5ofoBPYg49N0yh-_Y2QjmTBnCSS115uCNx3SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000401d66034$cfe18e80$6fa4ab80$@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOt4zaBGz-1xQwrUeU3xxOkmNZKJRgvCzWYUZDWA7UA8Rw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c-xZ_B44VdgdKV3cMbP0xOwOvXfu+UfJUJ9fx9cs2jidA@mail.gmail.com>

Bruce,

I think your descent into mediocrity assessment is baseless and your
statement:"We will work on the issue
over at ORI, instead of AMSAT, and don't be surprised when we continue
to get the participation and grants that were previously directed
toward AMSAT." speaks absolute volumes.  It actually gives credence to
those that are saying some are coming into the organization to "take
it over" amongst other things.  It also shows a general lack of
knowledge and understanding of all the things AMSAT has been up to and
the time / work that it takes.  It also tells everyone on the -bb
about your loose commitment to the real success of AMSAT, when you're
willing to just "go do it with someone else".  That's not commitment,
that's having one foot out the door.  No doubt, this attitude is
reflected in your choice of candidates.

I (and I think many others on the -bb) are tired of vile blog posts
and I am personally, not supportive of seeing LinkedIn posts badgering
AMSAT publically... vs taking up issues as professionals within the
organization.  I am still dumbfounded by the stuff I saw posted on
LinkedIn... It shows a general lack of professionalism and in my
opinion is likely a symptom of larger, more-substantial interpersonal
issues that people are bringing to the table, that likely are the
root-cause of a lot of the "doesn't work well with people" stuff
that's been stated on here.

The term Loose Cannon comes to mind, or, bad apples spoil the bunch.

I mean, if you really think the organization is that bad, do yourself
a favor and leave it alone.  Be the bigger person Bruce, take your
team that has a proven track record and run with it.  You can be this
generations Elon of amateur radio in space!  Why let AMSAT slow you
down?

The constant badgering and harassment of members and directors that
actually have a track-record, is beyond me.  What AMSAT needs is to
maintain the people with a Proven Track Record Of Getting Things Done,
not those with a documented track record of whining, complaining and
making empty promises without substance.

Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer, just got my vote.

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO (renewed!)


Joseph Armbruster

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 1:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> One of my earlier forays into amateur radio policy was to found "No-Code
> International" and lobby to get rid of the Morse Code test worldwide. We
> appeared at many conferences and I even went to Iceland to lobby their IARU
> vote, which was the same as that of the USA even though I had half of the
> hams in the whole country in one room where I was speaking.
>
> During this period, I expected to be punched out or spat upon by angry
> hams. But I was impressed with the civil behavior of hams. Although there
> were complaints to ARRL directors that my table was even admitted to the
> Division conference, I think only one person cursed me out. And he very
> graciously made up after the decision was made.
>
> Certainly no one ever said it was a "hostile takeover". To treat an
> election as that is truly ludicrous.
>
> If you like the descent into mediocrity that AMSAT has been on for a
> decade, by all means vote for the incumbents. We will work on the issue
> over at ORI, instead of AMSAT, and don't be surprised when we continue to
> get the participation and grants that were previously directed toward AMSAT.
>
> But there is an alternative. If you want a way out of AMSAT's decline,
> please vote for these candidates:
>
> Bob McGwier N4HY
> Howie DeFelice AB2S
> Jeff Johns WE4B
>
> Thanks
>
> Bruce
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 7:58 AM Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > Michelle,
> >
> > > Describing me publicly as a ?target? that you want to bomb makes one of
> > us look bad... and it isn?t me.
> >
> > You are probably one of only two people on this list who could possibly
> > twist/spin/distort what I clearly meant into what you claim.  Given the
> > complete ludicrousness of that, I will just wish you a good and healthful
> > day.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Alan
> > WA4SCA
> >
> >
> > From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:mountain.michelle at gmail.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:22 AM
> > To: APBIDDLE at mailaps.org; Alan <wa4sca at gmail.com>
> > Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
> > consider.
> >
> > Describing me publicly as a ?target? that you want to bomb makes one of us
> > look bad... and it isn?t me.
> >
> > Violent responses to ordinary questions about financial oversight have
> > been the pattern from the majority of the absentee board.
> >
> > There certainly was smoke. It lead to real fires. We put some of them out
> > without anyone getting bothered.
> >
> > The voters are the fire department of last resort for a member society. If
> > you are out there, we need your help.
> >
> > Fewer war-obsessed Directors would result in immediate improvement for
> > everyone.
> >
> > Please vote for McGwier, DeFelice, and Johns.
> >
> > -mdt
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 05:19 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org
> > <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org> > wrote:
> > Michelle,
> >
> > Thanks for confirming my hypothesis on your tactics and actual
> > motivations.  A lightning response consisting of a dense smokescreen, or
> > perhaps heavy flack, means I am over the target.  :)
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Alan
> > WA4SCA
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------
> > You can fool some of the people all of the time,
> > all of the people some of the time, and that is usually sufficient.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > <-----Original Message-----
> > <From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:mountain.michelle at gmail.com <mailto:
> > mountain.michelle at gmail.com> ]
> > <Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:07 AM
> > <To: APBIDDLE at mailaps.org <mailto:APBIDDLE at mailaps.org> ; Alan <
> > wa4sca at gmail.com <mailto:wa4sca at gmail.com> >
> > <Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > <Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
> > consider.
> > <
> > <That is true.
> > <
> > <It?s a classic hostile takeover when the doors are locked against a
> > minority of the Directors,
> > <and when company assets are used for personal reasons.
> > <
> > <I add that secretly hiring lawyers to harass and obstruct elected leaders
> > isn?t a hostile
> > <takeover. It?s just plain hostile.
> > <
> > <Lying about it and trying to cover it up is offensive.
> > <
> > <Unlike other things that we do, this isn?t rocket science.
> > <
> > <A stagnant board majority that freaks out and refuses to meet is not an
> > asset to the
> > <corporation.
> > <
> > <Thanks to Alan for highlighting this aspect.
> > <
> > <-Michelle W5NYV
> > <
> > <On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 03:43 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org
> > <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>  <mailto:amsat- <mailto:amsat->
> > <bb at amsat.org <mailto:bb at amsat.org> > > wrote:
> > <
> > <
> > <       John,
> > <
> > <       It is more accurate to think of it as an attempted hostile
> > takeover rather
> > <       than a civil war, even though it is driven by ego and ideology
> > rather than
> > <       money. That is important when understanding the tools being used,
> > and in
> > <       looking at the range of possible resolutions. They are somewhat
> > different in
> > <       the two cases.
> > <
> > <       73,
> > <
> > <       Alan
> > <       WA4SCA
> > <
> > <
> > <
> > <
> > <       <-----Original Message-----
> > <       <From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org <mailto:
> > amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org>  <mailto:amsat-bb- <mailto:amsat-bb->
> > <bounces at amsat.org <mailto:bounces at amsat.org> > ] On Behalf Of john--- via
> > <       <AMSAT-BB
> > <       <Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:36 PM
> > <       <To: amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>  <mailto:
> > amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org> >
> > <       <Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
> > consider.
> > <       <
> > <       <One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago, "What is
> > going on
> > <       <with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war. And it is
> > <       <nasty and it's tearing us apart.
> > <       <
> > <       <With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is hard to
> > determine
> > <       <the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to have any
> > <       <chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real issues
> > becomes
> > <       <clear.
> > <       <
> > <       <The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago when
> > members
> > <       <started talking about the ballots they were receiving in the mail.
> > <       <Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem will
> > go away.
> > <       < Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and Michelle
> > are not
> > <       <on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the
> > election is
> > <       <over.
> > <       <
> > <       <My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived yesterday. And
> > so did
> > <       <the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I read the
> > <       <statements and have been reading the candidate's comments on other
> > <       <social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked about some
> > of
> > <       <the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular Board
> > <       <meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the third vote
> > <       <required to demand General Board meetings be held regularly!
> > That's
> > <       <about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements. The same
> > person
> > <       <promised to do some other things as well if elected; some helpful
> > and
> > <       <some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them..
> > <       <
> > <       <A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote for. He
> > <       <documented everyone's credentials, experience, past efforts with
> > AMSAT
> > <       <along with comments about personal interactions, if any. Those
> > are good
> > <       <things to consider. But what about the future? What issues does
> > the
> > <       <candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to deal with
> > them?
> > <       <
> > <       <To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way to
> > bring our
> > <       <Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an
> > agreement
> > <       <with all parties that will restore civility and respect for all
> > members,
> > <       <a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is
> > suggesting
> > <       <them, as much transparency as the law permits along with fiscal
> > <       <responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've
> > pondered how
> > <       <to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of working.
> > But
> > <       <I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I will
> > defer to
> > <       <the candidates to come up with their own ideas.
> > <       <
> > <       <I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail a plan
> > to
> > <       <deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are things that
> > <       <must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high school
> > <       <education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you should be
> > able
> > <       <to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the
> > candidates with
> > <       <the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting their
> > votes.
> > <       < Let's see what happens!
> > <       <
> > <       <73, John K8YSE
> > <       <_______________________________________________
> > <       <Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>  <mailto:
> > AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> > . AMSAT-NA
> > <makes this open forum available
> > <       <to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions
> > <       expressed
> > <       <are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> > views of
> > <       AMSAT-NA.
> > <       <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > <       <Subscription settings:
> > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > <
> > <       _______________________________________________
> > <       Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>  <mailto:
> > AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> > . AMSAT-NA
> > <makes this open forum available
> > <       to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions
> > <expressed
> > <       are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> > views of AMSAT-NA.
> > <       Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > <       Subscription settings:
> > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > <
> > <
> > <--
> > <
> > <-Michelle W5NYV
> > <
> > <
> > <"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
> > <
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> . AMSAT-NA makes
> > this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > --
> > -Michelle W5NYV
> > "Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From n8hm at arrl.net  Wed Jul 22 18:10:35 2020
From: n8hm at arrl.net (Paul Stoetzer)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 14:10:35 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] ANS-204 AMSAT News Service Special Bulletin - AMSAT
 Partners with UMaine's Wise-Net Lab to Develop Maine's First Small
 Satellite
Message-ID: <CABzOSOrEhg8va3dPgYNQC4b5L2NZ0MkHkG3PR+VFks2bASNGqA@mail.gmail.com>

AMSAT NEWS SERVICE SPECIAL BULLETIN
ANS-204

The AMSAT News Service bulletins are a free, weekly news and infor-
mation service of AMSAT North America, The Radio Amateur Satellite
Corporation. ANS publishes news related to Amateur Radio in Space
including reports on the activities of a worldwide group of Amateur
Radio operators who share an active interest in designing, building,
launching and communicating through analog and digital Amateur Radio
satellites.

The news feed on http://www.amsat.org publishes news of Amateur
Radio in Space as soon as our volunteers can post it.

Please send any amateur satellite news or reports to:
ans-editor at amsat.org.

You can sign up for free e-mail delivery of the AMSAT News Service
Bulletins via the ANS List; to join this list see:
http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/ans

In this edition:

* AMSAT Partners with UMaine's WiSe-Net Lab to Develop Maine's First
Small Satellite

SB SAT @ AMSAT $ANS-204
ANS-204 AMSAT News Service Special Bulletin

AMSAT News Service Bulletin 204.01
 From AMSAT HQ KENSINGTON, MD.
DATE July 22, 2020
To All RADIO AMATEURS
BID: $ANS-204.01

AMSAT Partners with UMaine's WiSe-Net Lab to Develop Maine's First
Small Satellite

The University of Maine Wireless Sensing Laboratory (WiSe-Net Lab) and
AMSAT have signed an agreement to collaborate on building and
operating MESAT1, Maine?s first small satellite, to be launched in
space in the next three years.

MESAT1 is Maine's first CubeSat ? one of 18 small research satellites
selected by NASA to carry auxiliary payloads into space between 2021?
23. It is part of NASA?s CubeSat Launch Initiative that provides
opportunities for nanosatellite science and technology payloads built
by universities, schools and nonprofit organizations to ride share on
space launches.

UMaine?s WiSe-Net Lab, established in 2005, is involved in aerospace
and space research. The lab was founded by Ali Abedi, KB1VJV,
assistant vice president for research and director of the Center for
Undergraduate Research. Lab researchers have developed the first
wireless sensor network for NASA?s lunar habitation project and
launched wireless leak-detection to the International Space station.

The MESAT1 initiative will enable K?12 students and teachers in Maine
to access space data for educational and research purposes, and
encourage students to pursue STEM careers.

AMSAT will provide a Linear Transponder Module (LTM) along with
integration and operational support for MESAT1. AMSAT's LTM
incorporates a VHF/UHF telemetry beacon, command receiver, and linear
transponder. It will be available for radio amateurs worldwide to use
when the satellite is commissioned.

AMSAT President Clayton Coleman, W5PFG, celebrated the announcement.
"This is a great day for AMSAT and UMaine's Wise-Net Lab. This
partnership is a true win-win for both education and the amateur radio
community. The collaborative effort under AMSAT's engineering and
operations teams has once again succeeded to bring another opportunity
to AMSAT."

[ANS thanks AMSAT and UMaine's WiSe-Net Lab for the above
information]

/EX

In addition to regular membership, AMSAT offers membership in the
President's Club. Members of the President's Club, as sustaining
donors to AMSAT Project Funds, will be eligible to receive addi-
tional benefits. President's Club donations may be made at
https://tinyurl.com/ANS-PresClub.

Primary and secondary school students are eligible for membership
at one-half the standard yearly rate. Post-secondary school students
enrolled in at least half time status shall be eligible for the stu-
dent rate for a maximum of 6 post-secondary years in this status.

Join AMSAT today at https://launch.amsat.org/

73 and remember to help Keep Amateur Radio in Space,

This week's ANS Contributing Editor,

Paul Stoetzer, N8HM
n8hm at amsat dot org

From bruce at perens.com  Wed Jul 22 18:17:14 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 11:17:14 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c-xZ_B44VdgdKV3cMbP0xOwOvXfu+UfJUJ9fx9cs2jidA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4a9b3a4d89d091e19cc5b013558b3c85@papays.com>
	<000001d66013$fa3300e0$ee9902a0$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XdvhJpLxBPNdZiUw1iwj6goccGkC3OP+YJobMi9k6a5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<001401d66020$87a86b70$96f94250$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2WPC32kB5ofoBPYg49N0yh-_Y2QjmTBnCSS115uCNx3SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000401d66034$cfe18e80$6fa4ab80$@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOt4zaBGz-1xQwrUeU3xxOkmNZKJRgvCzWYUZDWA7UA8Rw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-xZ_B44VdgdKV3cMbP0xOwOvXfu+UfJUJ9fx9cs2jidA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOv1DPaGW+7j9OS7sTmaEYrgvNjGvTEkK0QrpO-RVZJgpg@mail.gmail.com>

Joseph,

What I posted on LinkedIn, where I know I have a following of hams, was the
election flyer I also put up at
http://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html

Of course I also ran it on Twitter, QRZ, and others have reposted it to
additional venues.

This is election campaign material. It really boggles the mind that people
take exception to election campaign material posted in locations where
members who do not subscribe to the BB might read it. And you consider it
embarrassing.

I submit that this is authoritarian thinking. The very implication to
others that an incumbent is accused of running the organization improperly
must be kept within closed doors and never shown to others. We must
suppress the appearance of dissent and publicly support the authorities.

This follows what I said before about people taking opposition as evil,
unprofessional, etc. Campaigning is a basic part of democracy, and yes it
gets aggressive sometimes.

ORI is an AMSAT member organization which we created because we couldn't
get the work done at AMSAT. If it continues to be the case that we can't
get the work done at AMSAT, obviously we are not going to take that as a
direction to abandon the work. Carrying it out within ORI would be
necessary.

Thanks

Bruce

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 11:03 AM Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Bruce,
>
> I think your descent into mediocrity assessment is baseless and your
> statement:"We will work on the issue
> over at ORI, instead of AMSAT, and don't be surprised when we continue
> to get the participation and grants that were previously directed
> toward AMSAT." speaks absolute volumes.  It actually gives credence to
> those that are saying some are coming into the organization to "take
> it over" amongst other things.  It also shows a general lack of
> knowledge and understanding of all the things AMSAT has been up to and
> the time / work that it takes.  It also tells everyone on the -bb
> about your loose commitment to the real success of AMSAT, when you're
> willing to just "go do it with someone else".  That's not commitment,
> that's having one foot out the door.  No doubt, this attitude is
> reflected in your choice of candidates.
>
> I (and I think many others on the -bb) are tired of vile blog posts
> and I am personally, not supportive of seeing LinkedIn posts badgering
> AMSAT publically... vs taking up issues as professionals within the
> organization.  I am still dumbfounded by the stuff I saw posted on
> LinkedIn... It shows a general lack of professionalism and in my
> opinion is likely a symptom of larger, more-substantial interpersonal
> issues that people are bringing to the table, that likely are the
> root-cause of a lot of the "doesn't work well with people" stuff
> that's been stated on here.
>
> The term Loose Cannon comes to mind, or, bad apples spoil the bunch.
>
> I mean, if you really think the organization is that bad, do yourself
> a favor and leave it alone.  Be the bigger person Bruce, take your
> team that has a proven track record and run with it.  You can be this
> generations Elon of amateur radio in space!  Why let AMSAT slow you
> down?
>
> The constant badgering and harassment of members and directors that
> actually have a track-record, is beyond me.  What AMSAT needs is to
> maintain the people with a Proven Track Record Of Getting Things Done,
> not those with a documented track record of whining, complaining and
> making empty promises without substance.
>
> Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer, just got my vote.
>
> Joseph Armbruster
> KJ4JIO (renewed!)
>
>
> Joseph Armbruster
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 1:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > One of my earlier forays into amateur radio policy was to found "No-Code
> > International" and lobby to get rid of the Morse Code test worldwide. We
> > appeared at many conferences and I even went to Iceland to lobby their
> IARU
> > vote, which was the same as that of the USA even though I had half of the
> > hams in the whole country in one room where I was speaking.
> >
> > During this period, I expected to be punched out or spat upon by angry
> > hams. But I was impressed with the civil behavior of hams. Although there
> > were complaints to ARRL directors that my table was even admitted to the
> > Division conference, I think only one person cursed me out. And he very
> > graciously made up after the decision was made.
> >
> > Certainly no one ever said it was a "hostile takeover". To treat an
> > election as that is truly ludicrous.
> >
> > If you like the descent into mediocrity that AMSAT has been on for a
> > decade, by all means vote for the incumbents. We will work on the issue
> > over at ORI, instead of AMSAT, and don't be surprised when we continue to
> > get the participation and grants that were previously directed toward
> AMSAT.
> >
> > But there is an alternative. If you want a way out of AMSAT's decline,
> > please vote for these candidates:
> >
> > Bob McGwier N4HY
> > Howie DeFelice AB2S
> > Jeff Johns WE4B
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 7:58 AM Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Michelle,
> > >
> > > > Describing me publicly as a ?target? that you want to bomb makes one
> of
> > > us look bad... and it isn?t me.
> > >
> > > You are probably one of only two people on this list who could possibly
> > > twist/spin/distort what I clearly meant into what you claim.  Given the
> > > complete ludicrousness of that, I will just wish you a good and
> healthful
> > > day.
> > >
> > > 73,
> > >
> > > Alan
> > > WA4SCA
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:mountain.michelle at gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:22 AM
> > > To: APBIDDLE at mailaps.org; Alan <wa4sca at gmail.com>
> > > Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> > > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
> > > consider.
> > >
> > > Describing me publicly as a ?target? that you want to bomb makes one
> of us
> > > look bad... and it isn?t me.
> > >
> > > Violent responses to ordinary questions about financial oversight have
> > > been the pattern from the majority of the absentee board.
> > >
> > > There certainly was smoke. It lead to real fires. We put some of them
> out
> > > without anyone getting bothered.
> > >
> > > The voters are the fire department of last resort for a member
> society. If
> > > you are out there, we need your help.
> > >
> > > Fewer war-obsessed Directors would result in immediate improvement for
> > > everyone.
> > >
> > > Please vote for McGwier, DeFelice, and Johns.
> > >
> > > -mdt
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 05:19 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org
> > > <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org> > wrote:
> > > Michelle,
> > >
> > > Thanks for confirming my hypothesis on your tactics and actual
> > > motivations.  A lightning response consisting of a dense smokescreen,
> or
> > > perhaps heavy flack, means I am over the target.  :)
> > >
> > > 73,
> > >
> > > Alan
> > > WA4SCA
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------
> > > You can fool some of the people all of the time,
> > > all of the people some of the time, and that is usually sufficient.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > <-----Original Message-----
> > > <From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:mountain.michelle at gmail.com <mailto:
> > > mountain.michelle at gmail.com> ]
> > > <Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:07 AM
> > > <To: APBIDDLE at mailaps.org <mailto:APBIDDLE at mailaps.org> ; Alan <
> > > wa4sca at gmail.com <mailto:wa4sca at gmail.com> >
> > > <Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > > <Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
> > > consider.
> > > <
> > > <That is true.
> > > <
> > > <It?s a classic hostile takeover when the doors are locked against a
> > > minority of the Directors,
> > > <and when company assets are used for personal reasons.
> > > <
> > > <I add that secretly hiring lawyers to harass and obstruct elected
> leaders
> > > isn?t a hostile
> > > <takeover. It?s just plain hostile.
> > > <
> > > <Lying about it and trying to cover it up is offensive.
> > > <
> > > <Unlike other things that we do, this isn?t rocket science.
> > > <
> > > <A stagnant board majority that freaks out and refuses to meet is not
> an
> > > asset to the
> > > <corporation.
> > > <
> > > <Thanks to Alan for highlighting this aspect.
> > > <
> > > <-Michelle W5NYV
> > > <
> > > <On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 03:43 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org
> > > <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>  <mailto:amsat- <mailto:amsat->
> > > <bb at amsat.org <mailto:bb at amsat.org> > > wrote:
> > > <
> > > <
> > > <       John,
> > > <
> > > <       It is more accurate to think of it as an attempted hostile
> > > takeover rather
> > > <       than a civil war, even though it is driven by ego and ideology
> > > rather than
> > > <       money. That is important when understanding the tools being
> used,
> > > and in
> > > <       looking at the range of possible resolutions. They are somewhat
> > > different in
> > > <       the two cases.
> > > <
> > > <       73,
> > > <
> > > <       Alan
> > > <       WA4SCA
> > > <
> > > <
> > > <
> > > <
> > > <       <-----Original Message-----
> > > <       <From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org <mailto:
> > > amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org>  <mailto:amsat-bb- <mailto:amsat-bb->
> > > <bounces at amsat.org <mailto:bounces at amsat.org> > ] On Behalf Of
> john--- via
> > > <       <AMSAT-BB
> > > <       <Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:36 PM
> > > <       <To: amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>  <mailto:
> > > amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org> >
> > > <       <Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
> > > consider.
> > > <       <
> > > <       <One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago, "What is
> > > going on
> > > <       <with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war. And
> it is
> > > <       <nasty and it's tearing us apart.
> > > <       <
> > > <       <With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is hard to
> > > determine
> > > <       <the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to have
> any
> > > <       <chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real issues
> > > becomes
> > > <       <clear.
> > > <       <
> > > <       <The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago when
> > > members
> > > <       <started talking about the ballots they were receiving in the
> mail.
> > > <       <Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem
> will
> > > go away.
> > > <       < Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and Michelle
> > > are not
> > > <       <on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the
> > > election is
> > > <       <over.
> > > <       <
> > > <       <My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived yesterday.
> And
> > > so did
> > > <       <the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I read
> the
> > > <       <statements and have been reading the candidate's comments on
> other
> > > <       <social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked about
> some
> > > of
> > > <       <the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular Board
> > > <       <meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the third
> vote
> > > <       <required to demand General Board meetings be held regularly!
> > > That's
> > > <       <about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements. The
> same
> > > person
> > > <       <promised to do some other things as well if elected; some
> helpful
> > > and
> > > <       <some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them..
> > > <       <
> > > <       <A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote
> for. He
> > > <       <documented everyone's credentials, experience, past efforts
> with
> > > AMSAT
> > > <       <along with comments about personal interactions, if any. Those
> > > are good
> > > <       <things to consider. But what about the future? What issues
> does
> > > the
> > > <       <candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to deal
> with
> > > them?
> > > <       <
> > > <       <To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way to
> > > bring our
> > > <       <Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an
> > > agreement
> > > <       <with all parties that will restore civility and respect for
> all
> > > members,
> > > <       <a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is
> > > suggesting
> > > <       <them, as much transparency as the law permits along with
> fiscal
> > > <       <responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've
> > > pondered how
> > > <       <to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of
> working.
> > > But
> > > <       <I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I
> will
> > > defer to
> > > <       <the candidates to come up with their own ideas.
> > > <       <
> > > <       <I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail a
> plan
> > > to
> > > <       <deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are things
> that
> > > <       <must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high
> school
> > > <       <education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you
> should be
> > > able
> > > <       <to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the
> > > candidates with
> > > <       <the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting
> their
> > > votes.
> > > <       < Let's see what happens!
> > > <       <
> > > <       <73, John K8YSE
> > > <       <_______________________________________________
> > > <       <Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>
> <mailto:
> > > AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> > . AMSAT-NA
> > > <makes this open forum available
> > > <       <to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
> membership.
> > > Opinions
> > > <       expressed
> > > <       <are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
> official
> > > views of
> > > <       AMSAT-NA.
> > > <       <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
> satellite
> > > program!
> > > <       <Subscription settings:
> > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > > <
> > > <       _______________________________________________
> > > <       Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>
> <mailto:
> > > AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> > . AMSAT-NA
> > > <makes this open forum available
> > > <       to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
> membership.
> > > Opinions
> > > <expressed
> > > <       are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> > > views of AMSAT-NA.
> > > <       Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
> satellite
> > > program!
> > > <       Subscription settings:
> > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > > <
> > > <
> > > <--
> > > <
> > > <-Michelle W5NYV
> > > <
> > > <
> > > <"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
> > > <
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> . AMSAT-NA
> makes
> > > this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > > expressed
> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > > --
> > > -Michelle W5NYV
> > > "Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > > expressed
> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From propgrinder at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 18:18:56 2020
From: propgrinder at gmail.com (Bob Hammond)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 11:18:56 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is This AMSAT's Future?
In-Reply-To: <9bda0458-ff19-4a2c-96da-125f19f2628f@yahoo.com>
References: <2E07D201-8BB9-4831-85B8-C6DC745CDE4A@mac.com>
	<b72883eb-0439-a677-54a0-6ccdc59845ce@pobox.com>
	<9bda0458-ff19-4a2c-96da-125f19f2628f@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAKoB7OojJrBjq3WYxyqYiK6Au1EgV8B7R1tcSfLNf-3aD=5M-g@mail.gmail.com>

I'd like to learn more about microwave ham radio.

Bob W7OTJ

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 10:30 AM W3AB/GEO via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Exactomento Zach. I'm a member of a local m/wave club and costs don't seem
> to be a detriment to getting on the air. Lots & lots of cheap commercial
> gear is available. A soldering iron & some parts tweaking & you've got a
> m/wave station.
>
> ?___
> Sent from my two way wrist watch
> 73 de W3AB/GEO?
>
> On Jul 22, 2020, 06:51, at 06:51, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >On 07/22/20 02:23, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> >>>> This could very well be. Tech changes over time. IMHO, Hams need to
> >change over time to keep the hobby viable.
> >>
> >> That required station is quite a jump from enjoying LEOs - and
> >getting involved in satellite communications for well under $200,
> >though.
> >
> >There will always be some cost to this hobby, part of which can be
> >mitigated by more home-brewing of equipment. However, if one doesn't
> >want scratch-build the entire system, there are rather inexpensive
> >solutions from commercial components.
> >
> >OZ1BXM has an overview of the 13cm (2.4 GHz) uplink / 3cm (10 GHz)
> >downlink system here:
> >
> >https://oz1bxm.dk/sat/QO100-rig.html
> >
> >Seems like the receive chain is quite simple and cheap. I recently
> >acquired a 10 GHz LNB, new in a box, from eBay for $20. The RTL-SDR is
> >about another $20, and a bias-tee is probably $10, if one can't cobble
> >it together from the junk bin.
> >
> >The transmit path requires a 2.4 GHz radio or converter, which is
> >likely
> >the most expensive part of the whole system.
> >
> >One could argue that this setup pushes new operators toward learning to
> >
> >track and listen before trying to transmit. This is probably a good
> >thing.
> >
> >The 10 GHz information will be useful for GOLF-1's microwave
> >capabilities.
> >
> >--- Zach
> >N0ZGO
> >_______________________________________________
> >Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >Opinions expressed
> >are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> >of AMSAT-NA.
> >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >program!
> >Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 18:39:35 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 14:39:35 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOv1DPaGW+7j9OS7sTmaEYrgvNjGvTEkK0QrpO-RVZJgpg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4a9b3a4d89d091e19cc5b013558b3c85@papays.com>
	<000001d66013$fa3300e0$ee9902a0$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XdvhJpLxBPNdZiUw1iwj6goccGkC3OP+YJobMi9k6a5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<001401d66020$87a86b70$96f94250$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2WPC32kB5ofoBPYg49N0yh-_Y2QjmTBnCSS115uCNx3SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000401d66034$cfe18e80$6fa4ab80$@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOt4zaBGz-1xQwrUeU3xxOkmNZKJRgvCzWYUZDWA7UA8Rw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-xZ_B44VdgdKV3cMbP0xOwOvXfu+UfJUJ9fx9cs2jidA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOv1DPaGW+7j9OS7sTmaEYrgvNjGvTEkK0QrpO-RVZJgpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c_QZK6qkK_xjHR9GRUD7TKm7nko6q0Fa1VAeyfP4huASw@mail.gmail.com>

Bruce,

I was referring to all the "report to members" stuff I saw on LinkedIn
a while back, not election material.  I was on LinkedIn one day and I
was absolutely dumbfounded at some of the stuff that was posted.

All 'member organization', or Member Society means is, you have an
organization and you paid a little more money for the membership (from
what I can gather from the bylaws).  It doesn't imply any special kind
of relationship.  I could join a club tomorrow and we could click the
"Join Now" button, pay the fee and become a 'member organization'
also.  Why would you create a member society to get the work of the
organization itself done... that makes Negative sense...  Why not
"Just do it" through your own?

What work Couldn't you get done with AMSAT, specifically?

Joseph Armbruster



Joseph Armbruster


On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 2:17 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>
> Joseph,
>
> What I posted on LinkedIn, where I know I have a following of hams, was the election flyer I also put up at http://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html
>
> Of course I also ran it on Twitter, QRZ, and others have reposted it to additional venues.
>
> This is election campaign material. It really boggles the mind that people take exception to election campaign material posted in locations where members who do not subscribe to the BB might read it. And you consider it embarrassing.
>
> I submit that this is authoritarian thinking. The very implication to others that an incumbent is accused of running the organization improperly must be kept within closed doors and never shown to others. We must suppress the appearance of dissent and publicly support the authorities.
>
> This follows what I said before about people taking opposition as evil, unprofessional, etc. Campaigning is a basic part of democracy, and yes it gets aggressive sometimes.
>
> ORI is an AMSAT member organization which we created because we couldn't get the work done at AMSAT. If it continues to be the case that we can't get the work done at AMSAT, obviously we are not going to take that as a direction to abandon the work. Carrying it out within ORI would be necessary.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bruce
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 11:03 AM Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Bruce,
>>
>> I think your descent into mediocrity assessment is baseless and your
>> statement:"We will work on the issue
>> over at ORI, instead of AMSAT, and don't be surprised when we continue
>> to get the participation and grants that were previously directed
>> toward AMSAT." speaks absolute volumes.  It actually gives credence to
>> those that are saying some are coming into the organization to "take
>> it over" amongst other things.  It also shows a general lack of
>> knowledge and understanding of all the things AMSAT has been up to and
>> the time / work that it takes.  It also tells everyone on the -bb
>> about your loose commitment to the real success of AMSAT, when you're
>> willing to just "go do it with someone else".  That's not commitment,
>> that's having one foot out the door.  No doubt, this attitude is
>> reflected in your choice of candidates.
>>
>> I (and I think many others on the -bb) are tired of vile blog posts
>> and I am personally, not supportive of seeing LinkedIn posts badgering
>> AMSAT publically... vs taking up issues as professionals within the
>> organization.  I am still dumbfounded by the stuff I saw posted on
>> LinkedIn... It shows a general lack of professionalism and in my
>> opinion is likely a symptom of larger, more-substantial interpersonal
>> issues that people are bringing to the table, that likely are the
>> root-cause of a lot of the "doesn't work well with people" stuff
>> that's been stated on here.
>>
>> The term Loose Cannon comes to mind, or, bad apples spoil the bunch.
>>
>> I mean, if you really think the organization is that bad, do yourself
>> a favor and leave it alone.  Be the bigger person Bruce, take your
>> team that has a proven track record and run with it.  You can be this
>> generations Elon of amateur radio in space!  Why let AMSAT slow you
>> down?
>>
>> The constant badgering and harassment of members and directors that
>> actually have a track-record, is beyond me.  What AMSAT needs is to
>> maintain the people with a Proven Track Record Of Getting Things Done,
>> not those with a documented track record of whining, complaining and
>> making empty promises without substance.
>>
>> Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer, just got my vote.
>>
>> Joseph Armbruster
>> KJ4JIO (renewed!)
>>
>>
>> Joseph Armbruster
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 1:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB
>> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > One of my earlier forays into amateur radio policy was to found "No-Code
>> > International" and lobby to get rid of the Morse Code test worldwide. We
>> > appeared at many conferences and I even went to Iceland to lobby their IARU
>> > vote, which was the same as that of the USA even though I had half of the
>> > hams in the whole country in one room where I was speaking.
>> >
>> > During this period, I expected to be punched out or spat upon by angry
>> > hams. But I was impressed with the civil behavior of hams. Although there
>> > were complaints to ARRL directors that my table was even admitted to the
>> > Division conference, I think only one person cursed me out. And he very
>> > graciously made up after the decision was made.
>> >
>> > Certainly no one ever said it was a "hostile takeover". To treat an
>> > election as that is truly ludicrous.
>> >
>> > If you like the descent into mediocrity that AMSAT has been on for a
>> > decade, by all means vote for the incumbents. We will work on the issue
>> > over at ORI, instead of AMSAT, and don't be surprised when we continue to
>> > get the participation and grants that were previously directed toward AMSAT.
>> >
>> > But there is an alternative. If you want a way out of AMSAT's decline,
>> > please vote for these candidates:
>> >
>> > Bob McGwier N4HY
>> > Howie DeFelice AB2S
>> > Jeff Johns WE4B
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Bruce
>> >
>> > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 7:58 AM Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Michelle,
>> > >
>> > > > Describing me publicly as a ?target? that you want to bomb makes one of
>> > > us look bad... and it isn?t me.
>> > >
>> > > You are probably one of only two people on this list who could possibly
>> > > twist/spin/distort what I clearly meant into what you claim.  Given the
>> > > complete ludicrousness of that, I will just wish you a good and healthful
>> > > day.
>> > >
>> > > 73,
>> > >
>> > > Alan
>> > > WA4SCA
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:mountain.michelle at gmail.com]
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:22 AM
>> > > To: APBIDDLE at mailaps.org; Alan <wa4sca at gmail.com>
>> > > Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
>> > > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
>> > > consider.
>> > >
>> > > Describing me publicly as a ?target? that you want to bomb makes one of us
>> > > look bad... and it isn?t me.
>> > >
>> > > Violent responses to ordinary questions about financial oversight have
>> > > been the pattern from the majority of the absentee board.
>> > >
>> > > There certainly was smoke. It lead to real fires. We put some of them out
>> > > without anyone getting bothered.
>> > >
>> > > The voters are the fire department of last resort for a member society. If
>> > > you are out there, we need your help.
>> > >
>> > > Fewer war-obsessed Directors would result in immediate improvement for
>> > > everyone.
>> > >
>> > > Please vote for McGwier, DeFelice, and Johns.
>> > >
>> > > -mdt
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 05:19 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org
>> > > <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org> > wrote:
>> > > Michelle,
>> > >
>> > > Thanks for confirming my hypothesis on your tactics and actual
>> > > motivations.  A lightning response consisting of a dense smokescreen, or
>> > > perhaps heavy flack, means I am over the target.  :)
>> > >
>> > > 73,
>> > >
>> > > Alan
>> > > WA4SCA
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -------------------------------------
>> > > You can fool some of the people all of the time,
>> > > all of the people some of the time, and that is usually sufficient.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > <-----Original Message-----
>> > > <From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:mountain.michelle at gmail.com <mailto:
>> > > mountain.michelle at gmail.com> ]
>> > > <Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:07 AM
>> > > <To: APBIDDLE at mailaps.org <mailto:APBIDDLE at mailaps.org> ; Alan <
>> > > wa4sca at gmail.com <mailto:wa4sca at gmail.com> >
>> > > <Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> > > <Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
>> > > consider.
>> > > <
>> > > <That is true.
>> > > <
>> > > <It?s a classic hostile takeover when the doors are locked against a
>> > > minority of the Directors,
>> > > <and when company assets are used for personal reasons.
>> > > <
>> > > <I add that secretly hiring lawyers to harass and obstruct elected leaders
>> > > isn?t a hostile
>> > > <takeover. It?s just plain hostile.
>> > > <
>> > > <Lying about it and trying to cover it up is offensive.
>> > > <
>> > > <Unlike other things that we do, this isn?t rocket science.
>> > > <
>> > > <A stagnant board majority that freaks out and refuses to meet is not an
>> > > asset to the
>> > > <corporation.
>> > > <
>> > > <Thanks to Alan for highlighting this aspect.
>> > > <
>> > > <-Michelle W5NYV
>> > > <
>> > > <On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 03:43 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org
>> > > <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>  <mailto:amsat- <mailto:amsat->
>> > > <bb at amsat.org <mailto:bb at amsat.org> > > wrote:
>> > > <
>> > > <
>> > > <       John,
>> > > <
>> > > <       It is more accurate to think of it as an attempted hostile
>> > > takeover rather
>> > > <       than a civil war, even though it is driven by ego and ideology
>> > > rather than
>> > > <       money. That is important when understanding the tools being used,
>> > > and in
>> > > <       looking at the range of possible resolutions. They are somewhat
>> > > different in
>> > > <       the two cases.
>> > > <
>> > > <       73,
>> > > <
>> > > <       Alan
>> > > <       WA4SCA
>> > > <
>> > > <
>> > > <
>> > > <
>> > > <       <-----Original Message-----
>> > > <       <From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org <mailto:
>> > > amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org>  <mailto:amsat-bb- <mailto:amsat-bb->
>> > > <bounces at amsat.org <mailto:bounces at amsat.org> > ] On Behalf Of john--- via
>> > > <       <AMSAT-BB
>> > > <       <Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:36 PM
>> > > <       <To: amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>  <mailto:
>> > > amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org> >
>> > > <       <Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
>> > > consider.
>> > > <       <
>> > > <       <One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago, "What is
>> > > going on
>> > > <       <with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war. And it is
>> > > <       <nasty and it's tearing us apart.
>> > > <       <
>> > > <       <With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is hard to
>> > > determine
>> > > <       <the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to have any
>> > > <       <chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real issues
>> > > becomes
>> > > <       <clear.
>> > > <       <
>> > > <       <The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago when
>> > > members
>> > > <       <started talking about the ballots they were receiving in the mail.
>> > > <       <Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem will
>> > > go away.
>> > > <       < Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and Michelle
>> > > are not
>> > > <       <on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the
>> > > election is
>> > > <       <over.
>> > > <       <
>> > > <       <My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived yesterday. And
>> > > so did
>> > > <       <the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I read the
>> > > <       <statements and have been reading the candidate's comments on other
>> > > <       <social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked about some
>> > > of
>> > > <       <the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular Board
>> > > <       <meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the third vote
>> > > <       <required to demand General Board meetings be held regularly!
>> > > That's
>> > > <       <about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements. The same
>> > > person
>> > > <       <promised to do some other things as well if elected; some helpful
>> > > and
>> > > <       <some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them..
>> > > <       <
>> > > <       <A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote for. He
>> > > <       <documented everyone's credentials, experience, past efforts with
>> > > AMSAT
>> > > <       <along with comments about personal interactions, if any. Those
>> > > are good
>> > > <       <things to consider. But what about the future? What issues does
>> > > the
>> > > <       <candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to deal with
>> > > them?
>> > > <       <
>> > > <       <To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way to
>> > > bring our
>> > > <       <Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an
>> > > agreement
>> > > <       <with all parties that will restore civility and respect for all
>> > > members,
>> > > <       <a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is
>> > > suggesting
>> > > <       <them, as much transparency as the law permits along with fiscal
>> > > <       <responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've
>> > > pondered how
>> > > <       <to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of working.
>> > > But
>> > > <       <I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I will
>> > > defer to
>> > > <       <the candidates to come up with their own ideas.
>> > > <       <
>> > > <       <I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail a plan
>> > > to
>> > > <       <deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are things that
>> > > <       <must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high school
>> > > <       <education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you should be
>> > > able
>> > > <       <to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the
>> > > candidates with
>> > > <       <the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting their
>> > > votes.
>> > > <       < Let's see what happens!
>> > > <       <
>> > > <       <73, John K8YSE
>> > > <       <_______________________________________________
>> > > <       <Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>  <mailto:
>> > > AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> > . AMSAT-NA
>> > > <makes this open forum available
>> > > <       <to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> > > Opinions
>> > > <       expressed
>> > > <       <are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>> > > views of
>> > > <       AMSAT-NA.
>> > > <       <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> > > program!
>> > > <       <Subscription settings:
>> > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > > <
>> > > <       _______________________________________________
>> > > <       Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>  <mailto:
>> > > AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> > . AMSAT-NA
>> > > <makes this open forum available
>> > > <       to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> > > Opinions
>> > > <expressed
>> > > <       are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>> > > views of AMSAT-NA.
>> > > <       Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> > > program!
>> > > <       Subscription settings:
>> > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > > <
>> > > <
>> > > <--
>> > > <
>> > > <-Michelle W5NYV
>> > > <
>> > > <
>> > > <"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
>> > > <
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> . AMSAT-NA makes
>> > > this open forum available
>> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> > > expressed
>> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> > > AMSAT-NA.
>> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > > --
>> > > -Michelle W5NYV
>> > > "Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> > > expressed
>> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> > > AMSAT-NA.
>> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From bruce at perens.com  Wed Jul 22 18:40:05 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 11:40:05 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO
In-Reply-To: <CAN6TEUfamk4oNW-skiVFe9qAdi6gZHKt+VS92PemdX-bgSrdjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <287006801.5573097.1595436321317.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<287006801.5573097.1595436321317@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAN6TEUfamk4oNW-skiVFe9qAdi6gZHKt+VS92PemdX-bgSrdjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOtuaAUJOAVcQEie=r+yJXOLk3Rf2hR3cFEK7U9ChU+mQQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Andrew and Company,

I am all for having future satellites be accessible with the equipment that
hams have today.

What I am lobbying for is similar to what hams went through when we
transitioned from spark to CW (very heavily opposed at the time), AM voice
to SSB, and I am old enough to remember opposition to repeaters (including
at FCC) and starting with a Technician license when there was a predominant
perception that we were not "real hams".

In addition to easy access we must provide a path for hams to realize
benefits of improved technology, and there is always a chicken-and-egg
problem in achieving this. Few hams have microwave satellite equipment in
our hemisphere because we don't offer them a good microwave satellite yet.
The case is different in Europe and Africa.

I think you're confused about why we use microwave. Number one is
bandwidth, necessary for digital modes such as teleconference. And although
it is true that business is interested in microwave spectrum,  throughout
our history we have had to move to higher frequencies in order to have
living room in which to operate. The HF bands which we still have were
considered uselessly high frequencies when we got them.

Thanks

Bruce

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 11:08 AM Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via
AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Hi Andrew!
>
> I am all for a variety of satellites. When we had AO-51 in the 2000s, I
> found the pieces to work its V/S FM repeater as I started working
> satellites. Doppler at 2.4 GHz made tuning those downlinks an almost
> constant thing on those passes, but it was fun. We have the sort of
> transponder you mentioned in your post with AO-92's L/V FM repeater
> right now. We are only permitted to use the 1.2 GHz band for satellite
> uplinks, not downlinks.
>
> Many satellite operators now have the 1.2 GHz uplink capability with
> the IC-9700, but the only time AO-92 L/V is available appears to be
> inconvenient for many who might want to try it right now (Tuesday
> evenings and Wednesday mornings in North America). We were told that
> the switch from a Sunday UTC activation (Saturday nights and Sunday
> mornings in North America) last year was not going to be a permanent
> change. I think there would be more new call signs heard on AO-92 L/V
> with those IC-9700s and other radios, if that mode was available at a
> more convenient time for those who have work or school commitments
> during the week. It isn't like we lack V/U or U/V FM satellites right
> now.
>
> 73!
>
>
>
>
>
> Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 4:46 PM Andrew Lazenby via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > Hello EveryoneI recently joined Amsat because I felt like a bit of a
> > hypocrite for complaining about things, and not doing my part to change
> > them. One thing that does bug me is the HEO satellites having microwave
> > uplinks and downlinks. I think that will greatly limit the clientele that
> > will be able to use these.
> >  I have head many older hams gripe about LEO satellites and reflect back
> > on how back in the day there would be passes up for hours! Many of them
> > where using drifty transverters with terrible noise figures, turning
> > antennas with tv rotators and no preamp! The argument that I have heard
> to
> > move to mircowave uplinks and downlinks is lower noise, but if it worked
> > with them back then, then what's changed?
> > Something else to consider is that the microwave spectrum is under fire
> > from commercial interest more and more. Why not consider like a U/L or
> L/U
> > transponder? That would bring the envelope a little closer to where the
> > average ham could operate with out investing in some serious equipment,
> > while keeping the dream of HEO alive for the large percentage of
> satellite
> > operators, and not just a handful?
> > Forgive me if Im wrong, but I just wanted to put my 2 cents in the pot.
> If
> > we all would learn to work together as much as we fuss we would be making
> > some tracks. Thanks everyone, Andrew N4LAZ
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From bruce at perens.com  Wed Jul 22 18:59:00 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 11:59:00 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c_QZK6qkK_xjHR9GRUD7TKm7nko6q0Fa1VAeyfP4huASw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4a9b3a4d89d091e19cc5b013558b3c85@papays.com>
	<000001d66013$fa3300e0$ee9902a0$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2XdvhJpLxBPNdZiUw1iwj6goccGkC3OP+YJobMi9k6a5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<001401d66020$87a86b70$96f94250$@gmail.com>
	<CACvjz2WPC32kB5ofoBPYg49N0yh-_Y2QjmTBnCSS115uCNx3SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000401d66034$cfe18e80$6fa4ab80$@gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOt4zaBGz-1xQwrUeU3xxOkmNZKJRgvCzWYUZDWA7UA8Rw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c-xZ_B44VdgdKV3cMbP0xOwOvXfu+UfJUJ9fx9cs2jidA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOv1DPaGW+7j9OS7sTmaEYrgvNjGvTEkK0QrpO-RVZJgpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_QZK6qkK_xjHR9GRUD7TKm7nko6q0Fa1VAeyfP4huASw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOu6pgy_igGLu8rNZaAriqwU5DfvciHgTDew4uMo-wcSdw@mail.gmail.com>

Joseph,

I went through my LinkedIn activity, and couldn't find what you were
talking about. It is however true that I have publicly been very critical
of AMSAT management, a crime I share with three candidates and apparently
something that can subject you to legal action!

As you know, I was recently sued for my speech, in a classic SLAPP lawsuit,
and I stuck with the case rather than bowing to intimidation and removing
my speech from the internet. This ended with the plaintiff paying $300,000
for my defense. I take exception to AMSAT's legal action against Michelle
in Patrick for their speech, and your making what seem to be anti-speech
appeals here. I don't know what posting you are objecting to, or even who
wrote it. But it sounds like an attempt to suppress speech to me.

ORI was formed to carry on the Phase 4 Ground project. It's mission has
expanded considerably since then.

Thanks

Bruce

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 11:38 AM Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Bruce,
>
> I was referring to all the "report to members" stuff I saw on LinkedIn
> a while back, not election material.  I was on LinkedIn one day and I
> was absolutely dumbfounded at some of the stuff that was posted.
>
> All 'member organization', or Member Society means is, you have an
> organization and you paid a little more money for the membership (from
> what I can gather from the bylaws).  It doesn't imply any special kind
> of relationship.  I could join a club tomorrow and we could click the
> "Join Now" button, pay the fee and become a 'member organization'
> also.  Why would you create a member society to get the work of the
> organization itself done... that makes Negative sense...  Why not
> "Just do it" through your own?
>
> What work Couldn't you get done with AMSAT, specifically?
>
> Joseph Armbruster
>
>
>
> Joseph Armbruster
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 2:17 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
> >
> > Joseph,
> >
> > What I posted on LinkedIn, where I know I have a following of hams, was
> the election flyer I also put up at
> http://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html
> >
> > Of course I also ran it on Twitter, QRZ, and others have reposted it to
> additional venues.
> >
> > This is election campaign material. It really boggles the mind that
> people take exception to election campaign material posted in locations
> where members who do not subscribe to the BB might read it. And you
> consider it embarrassing.
> >
> > I submit that this is authoritarian thinking. The very implication to
> others that an incumbent is accused of running the organization improperly
> must be kept within closed doors and never shown to others. We must
> suppress the appearance of dissent and publicly support the authorities.
> >
> > This follows what I said before about people taking opposition as evil,
> unprofessional, etc. Campaigning is a basic part of democracy, and yes it
> gets aggressive sometimes.
> >
> > ORI is an AMSAT member organization which we created because we couldn't
> get the work done at AMSAT. If it continues to be the case that we can't
> get the work done at AMSAT, obviously we are not going to take that as a
> direction to abandon the work. Carrying it out within ORI would be
> necessary.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 11:03 AM Joseph Armbruster <
> josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Bruce,
> >>
> >> I think your descent into mediocrity assessment is baseless and your
> >> statement:"We will work on the issue
> >> over at ORI, instead of AMSAT, and don't be surprised when we continue
> >> to get the participation and grants that were previously directed
> >> toward AMSAT." speaks absolute volumes.  It actually gives credence to
> >> those that are saying some are coming into the organization to "take
> >> it over" amongst other things.  It also shows a general lack of
> >> knowledge and understanding of all the things AMSAT has been up to and
> >> the time / work that it takes.  It also tells everyone on the -bb
> >> about your loose commitment to the real success of AMSAT, when you're
> >> willing to just "go do it with someone else".  That's not commitment,
> >> that's having one foot out the door.  No doubt, this attitude is
> >> reflected in your choice of candidates.
> >>
> >> I (and I think many others on the -bb) are tired of vile blog posts
> >> and I am personally, not supportive of seeing LinkedIn posts badgering
> >> AMSAT publically... vs taking up issues as professionals within the
> >> organization.  I am still dumbfounded by the stuff I saw posted on
> >> LinkedIn... It shows a general lack of professionalism and in my
> >> opinion is likely a symptom of larger, more-substantial interpersonal
> >> issues that people are bringing to the table, that likely are the
> >> root-cause of a lot of the "doesn't work well with people" stuff
> >> that's been stated on here.
> >>
> >> The term Loose Cannon comes to mind, or, bad apples spoil the bunch.
> >>
> >> I mean, if you really think the organization is that bad, do yourself
> >> a favor and leave it alone.  Be the bigger person Bruce, take your
> >> team that has a proven track record and run with it.  You can be this
> >> generations Elon of amateur radio in space!  Why let AMSAT slow you
> >> down?
> >>
> >> The constant badgering and harassment of members and directors that
> >> actually have a track-record, is beyond me.  What AMSAT needs is to
> >> maintain the people with a Proven Track Record Of Getting Things Done,
> >> not those with a documented track record of whining, complaining and
> >> making empty promises without substance.
> >>
> >> Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer, just got my vote.
> >>
> >> Joseph Armbruster
> >> KJ4JIO (renewed!)
> >>
> >>
> >> Joseph Armbruster
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 1:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB
> >> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > One of my earlier forays into amateur radio policy was to found
> "No-Code
> >> > International" and lobby to get rid of the Morse Code test worldwide.
> We
> >> > appeared at many conferences and I even went to Iceland to lobby
> their IARU
> >> > vote, which was the same as that of the USA even though I had half of
> the
> >> > hams in the whole country in one room where I was speaking.
> >> >
> >> > During this period, I expected to be punched out or spat upon by angry
> >> > hams. But I was impressed with the civil behavior of hams. Although
> there
> >> > were complaints to ARRL directors that my table was even admitted to
> the
> >> > Division conference, I think only one person cursed me out. And he
> very
> >> > graciously made up after the decision was made.
> >> >
> >> > Certainly no one ever said it was a "hostile takeover". To treat an
> >> > election as that is truly ludicrous.
> >> >
> >> > If you like the descent into mediocrity that AMSAT has been on for a
> >> > decade, by all means vote for the incumbents. We will work on the
> issue
> >> > over at ORI, instead of AMSAT, and don't be surprised when we
> continue to
> >> > get the participation and grants that were previously directed toward
> AMSAT.
> >> >
> >> > But there is an alternative. If you want a way out of AMSAT's decline,
> >> > please vote for these candidates:
> >> >
> >> > Bob McGwier N4HY
> >> > Howie DeFelice AB2S
> >> > Jeff Johns WE4B
> >> >
> >> > Thanks
> >> >
> >> > Bruce
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 7:58 AM Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Michelle,
> >> > >
> >> > > > Describing me publicly as a ?target? that you want to bomb makes
> one of
> >> > > us look bad... and it isn?t me.
> >> > >
> >> > > You are probably one of only two people on this list who could
> possibly
> >> > > twist/spin/distort what I clearly meant into what you claim.  Given
> the
> >> > > complete ludicrousness of that, I will just wish you a good and
> healthful
> >> > > day.
> >> > >
> >> > > 73,
> >> > >
> >> > > Alan
> >> > > WA4SCA
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:mountain.michelle at gmail.com]
> >> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:22 AM
> >> > > To: APBIDDLE at mailaps.org; Alan <wa4sca at gmail.com>
> >> > > Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> >> > > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
> >> > > consider.
> >> > >
> >> > > Describing me publicly as a ?target? that you want to bomb makes
> one of us
> >> > > look bad... and it isn?t me.
> >> > >
> >> > > Violent responses to ordinary questions about financial oversight
> have
> >> > > been the pattern from the majority of the absentee board.
> >> > >
> >> > > There certainly was smoke. It lead to real fires. We put some of
> them out
> >> > > without anyone getting bothered.
> >> > >
> >> > > The voters are the fire department of last resort for a member
> society. If
> >> > > you are out there, we need your help.
> >> > >
> >> > > Fewer war-obsessed Directors would result in immediate improvement
> for
> >> > > everyone.
> >> > >
> >> > > Please vote for McGwier, DeFelice, and Johns.
> >> > >
> >> > > -mdt
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 05:19 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org
> >> > > <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org> > wrote:
> >> > > Michelle,
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks for confirming my hypothesis on your tactics and actual
> >> > > motivations.  A lightning response consisting of a dense
> smokescreen, or
> >> > > perhaps heavy flack, means I am over the target.  :)
> >> > >
> >> > > 73,
> >> > >
> >> > > Alan
> >> > > WA4SCA
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > -------------------------------------
> >> > > You can fool some of the people all of the time,
> >> > > all of the people some of the time, and that is usually sufficient.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > <-----Original Message-----
> >> > > <From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:mountain.michelle at gmail.com
> <mailto:
> >> > > mountain.michelle at gmail.com> ]
> >> > > <Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:07 AM
> >> > > <To: APBIDDLE at mailaps.org <mailto:APBIDDLE at mailaps.org> ; Alan <
> >> > > wa4sca at gmail.com <mailto:wa4sca at gmail.com> >
> >> > > <Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> >> > > <Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
> >> > > consider.
> >> > > <
> >> > > <That is true.
> >> > > <
> >> > > <It?s a classic hostile takeover when the doors are locked against a
> >> > > minority of the Directors,
> >> > > <and when company assets are used for personal reasons.
> >> > > <
> >> > > <I add that secretly hiring lawyers to harass and obstruct elected
> leaders
> >> > > isn?t a hostile
> >> > > <takeover. It?s just plain hostile.
> >> > > <
> >> > > <Lying about it and trying to cover it up is offensive.
> >> > > <
> >> > > <Unlike other things that we do, this isn?t rocket science.
> >> > > <
> >> > > <A stagnant board majority that freaks out and refuses to meet is
> not an
> >> > > asset to the
> >> > > <corporation.
> >> > > <
> >> > > <Thanks to Alan for highlighting this aspect.
> >> > > <
> >> > > <-Michelle W5NYV
> >> > > <
> >> > > <On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 03:43 Alan via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org
> >> > > <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>  <mailto:amsat- <mailto:amsat->
> >> > > <bb at amsat.org <mailto:bb at amsat.org> > > wrote:
> >> > > <
> >> > > <
> >> > > <       John,
> >> > > <
> >> > > <       It is more accurate to think of it as an attempted hostile
> >> > > takeover rather
> >> > > <       than a civil war, even though it is driven by ego and
> ideology
> >> > > rather than
> >> > > <       money. That is important when understanding the tools being
> used,
> >> > > and in
> >> > > <       looking at the range of possible resolutions. They are
> somewhat
> >> > > different in
> >> > > <       the two cases.
> >> > > <
> >> > > <       73,
> >> > > <
> >> > > <       Alan
> >> > > <       WA4SCA
> >> > > <
> >> > > <
> >> > > <
> >> > > <
> >> > > <       <-----Original Message-----
> >> > > <       <From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org <mailto:
> >> > > amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org>  <mailto:amsat-bb- <mailto:amsat-bb->
> >> > > <bounces at amsat.org <mailto:bounces at amsat.org> > ] On Behalf Of
> john--- via
> >> > > <       <AMSAT-BB
> >> > > <       <Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:36 PM
> >> > > <       <To: amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> <mailto:
> >> > > amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org> >
> >> > > <       <Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what?
> Something to
> >> > > consider.
> >> > > <       <
> >> > > <       <One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago,
> "What is
> >> > > going on
> >> > > <       <with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war.
> And it is
> >> > > <       <nasty and it's tearing us apart.
> >> > > <       <
> >> > > <       <With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is
> hard to
> >> > > determine
> >> > > <       <the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to
> have any
> >> > > <       <chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real
> issues
> >> > > becomes
> >> > > <       <clear.
> >> > > <       <
> >> > > <       <The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago
> when
> >> > > members
> >> > > <       <started talking about the ballots they were receiving in
> the mail.
> >> > > <       <Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem
> will
> >> > > go away.
> >> > > <       < Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and
> Michelle
> >> > > are not
> >> > > <       <on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the
> >> > > election is
> >> > > <       <over.
> >> > > <       <
> >> > > <       <My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived
> yesterday. And
> >> > > so did
> >> > > <       <the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I
> read the
> >> > > <       <statements and have been reading the candidate's comments
> on other
> >> > > <       <social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked
> about some
> >> > > of
> >> > > <       <the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular
> Board
> >> > > <       <meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the
> third vote
> >> > > <       <required to demand General Board meetings be held
> regularly!
> >> > > That's
> >> > > <       <about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements.
> The same
> >> > > person
> >> > > <       <promised to do some other things as well if elected; some
> helpful
> >> > > and
> >> > > <       <some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them..
> >> > > <       <
> >> > > <       <A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote
> for. He
> >> > > <       <documented everyone's credentials, experience, past
> efforts with
> >> > > AMSAT
> >> > > <       <along with comments about personal interactions, if any.
> Those
> >> > > are good
> >> > > <       <things to consider. But what about the future? What issues
> does
> >> > > the
> >> > > <       <candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to
> deal with
> >> > > them?
> >> > > <       <
> >> > > <       <To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way
> to
> >> > > bring our
> >> > > <       <Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an
> >> > > agreement
> >> > > <       <with all parties that will restore civility and respect
> for all
> >> > > members,
> >> > > <       <a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is
> >> > > suggesting
> >> > > <       <them, as much transparency as the law permits along with
> fiscal
> >> > > <       <responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've
> >> > > pondered how
> >> > > <       <to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of
> working.
> >> > > But
> >> > > <       <I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I
> will
> >> > > defer to
> >> > > <       <the candidates to come up with their own ideas.
> >> > > <       <
> >> > > <       <I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail
> a plan
> >> > > to
> >> > > <       <deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are
> things that
> >> > > <       <must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high
> school
> >> > > <       <education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you
> should be
> >> > > able
> >> > > <       <to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the
> >> > > candidates with
> >> > > <       <the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting
> their
> >> > > votes.
> >> > > <       < Let's see what happens!
> >> > > <       <
> >> > > <       <73, John K8YSE
> >> > > <       <_______________________________________________
> >> > > <       <Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>
> <mailto:
> >> > > AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> > . AMSAT-NA
> >> > > <makes this open forum available
> >> > > <       <to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
> membership.
> >> > > Opinions
> >> > > <       expressed
> >> > > <       <are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
> official
> >> > > views of
> >> > > <       AMSAT-NA.
> >> > > <       <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
> satellite
> >> > > program!
> >> > > <       <Subscription settings:
> >> > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >> > > <
> >> > > <       _______________________________________________
> >> > > <       Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>
> <mailto:
> >> > > AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> > . AMSAT-NA
> >> > > <makes this open forum available
> >> > > <       to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
> membership.
> >> > > Opinions
> >> > > <expressed
> >> > > <       are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
> official
> >> > > views of AMSAT-NA.
> >> > > <       Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
> satellite
> >> > > program!
> >> > > <       Subscription settings:
> >> > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >> > > <
> >> > > <
> >> > > <--
> >> > > <
> >> > > <-Michelle W5NYV
> >> > > <
> >> > > <
> >> > > <"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
> >> > > <
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org> . AMSAT-NA
> makes
> >> > > this open forum available
> >> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> >> > > expressed
> >> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of
> >> > > AMSAT-NA.
> >> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> > > Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >> > > --
> >> > > -Michelle W5NYV
> >> > > "Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
> >> > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> >> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> >> > > expressed
> >> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of
> >> > > AMSAT-NA.
> >> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> > > Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >> > >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> >> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of AMSAT-NA.
> >> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> > Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From ke4al at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 22 19:18:30 2020
From: ke4al at yahoo.com (Robert Bankston)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 19:18:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Fw:  HEO
In-Reply-To: <1433260629.5661611.1595444751839@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <287006801.5573097.1595436321317.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<287006801.5573097.1595436321317@mail.yahoo.com>
	<A3FD6189-0A58-495B-83F9-7AD1DD4BD5E3@gmail.com>
	<1433260629.5661611.1595444751839@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <171357819.5674704.1595445510194@mail.yahoo.com>

Andrew,


The great thing about AMSAT's GOLF program is the flexible capabilities of its communications payload.? Providing options make us more inclusive, rather than forcing you to use a specific band or mode.
??
GOLF-Tee will have a V/u transponder and an SDR-based? experimental package to allow a 1 Mbps downlink in the 10 GHz band.
??
https://www.amsat.org/greater-orbit-larger-footprint-an-introduction-to-the-amsat-golf-program/
??
I know you are already V/u capable, so that leaves only the 10GHz downlink
??
38BDU is absolutely correct.? TV LNBs are a cheap entry point to receive X-band.? Unfortunately, U.S. satellite TV frequencies are different then the rest of the World, so we have more of a challenge.? We will have to purchase from overseas or find something locally.
??
DirectTV's International World products look promising.? Their DTV36LNB is capable of 10GHz RX, using a 436 MHz IF.? The LNB is running about $10 USD and a companion 36" dish for $60.
??
QO-100 has proven that Hams will always rise up and share or offer affordable communication alternatives.? If there is a cheaper and better way of doing it, we will collectively find a way to do it.
??
Robert, KE4AL

From rhyolite at leikhim.com  Wed Jul 22 19:23:57 2020
From: rhyolite at leikhim.com (Joe Leikhim)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 15:23:57 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb]  Is This AMSAT's Future?
Message-ID: <71bb88dd-3289-fcbc-38aa-19b9347c7573@leikhim.com>

There are a myriad of regional clubs that cater to weak signal operations from VHF into microwave bands. SBMS, SVHFS and FLWSS are some I am aware of.
The technology for microwave experimentation is as older than  ARRL itself. J.C. Bose 60 GHz experiments in the 1890s.

I guess what I am saying is that there is no big leap to build or acquire microwave gear suitable for satellites. Perhaps some folks in the weak signal OPs are already
AMSAT members or could be enticed.

"I'd like to learn more about microwave ham radio.

Bob W7OTJ"

-- 
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

JLeikhim at Leikhim.com

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM


From kg4zlb at icloud.com  Wed Jul 22 19:28:17 2020
From: kg4zlb at icloud.com (David Worboys)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 15:28:17 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO
In-Reply-To: <CAN6TEUfamk4oNW-skiVFe9qAdi6gZHKt+VS92PemdX-bgSrdjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <287006801.5573097.1595436321317.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<287006801.5573097.1595436321317@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAN6TEUfamk4oNW-skiVFe9qAdi6gZHKt+VS92PemdX-bgSrdjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <11BF644E-F02B-46CD-83C4-A18406685D42@icloud.com>

Following on from Patrick?s post (below), I just got home and checked to find that the first AO-92 pass for me is at 23:13 edt tonight which, as I have to get up at 3.15am for work, is a definite no-no!

What is the reason for L/U to be only switched on for just a 24 hour period and during the work week?  Is it automatically switched back or does the command station do it? If that latter, can it be left on for say, 48 hours to give operators a better chance of working L band or moved to a weekend slot? What with the non activity last week I think its been about three weeks since the last time I could use Mode L and whilst I appreciate that there are a lot of people who want to use that mode, opening up the ability would give a greater number of operators the opportunity.

If the 24 hour period is the maximum available to preserve the health of the satellite then I understand but I would be interested in knowing the rationale!

Many thanks

73

David
KG4ZLB






On Jul 22, 2020, at 1:30 PM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

Hi Andrew!

I am all for a variety of satellites. When we had AO-51 in the 2000s, I
found the pieces to work its V/S FM repeater as I started working
satellites. Doppler at 2.4 GHz made tuning those downlinks an almost
constant thing on those passes, but it was fun. We have the sort of
transponder you mentioned in your post with AO-92's L/V FM repeater
right now. We are only permitted to use the 1.2 GHz band for satellite
uplinks, not downlinks.

Many satellite operators now have the 1.2 GHz uplink capability with
the IC-9700, but the only time AO-92 L/V is available appears to be
inconvenient for many who might want to try it right now (Tuesday
evenings and Wednesday mornings in North America). We were told that
the switch from a Sunday UTC activation (Saturday nights and Sunday
mornings in North America) last year was not going to be a permanent
change. I think there would be more new call signs heard on AO-92 L/V
with those IC-9700s and other radios, if that mode was available at a
more convenient time for those who have work or school commitments
during the week. It isn't like we lack V/U or U/V FM satellites right
now.

73!





Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK









On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 4:46 PM Andrew Lazenby via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Hello EveryoneI recently joined Amsat because I felt like a bit of a
> hypocrite for complaining about things, and not doing my part to change
> them. One thing that does bug me is the HEO satellites having microwave
> uplinks and downlinks. I think that will greatly limit the clientele that
> will be able to use these.
> I have head many older hams gripe about LEO satellites and reflect back
> on how back in the day there would be passes up for hours! Many of them
> where using drifty transverters with terrible noise figures, turning
> antennas with tv rotators and no preamp! The argument that I have heard to
> move to mircowave uplinks and downlinks is lower noise, but if it worked
> with them back then, then what's changed?
> Something else to consider is that the microwave spectrum is under fire
> from commercial interest more and more. Why not consider like a U/L or L/U
> transponder? That would bring the envelope a little closer to where the
> average ham could operate with out investing in some serious equipment,
> while keeping the dream of HEO alive for the large percentage of satellite
> operators, and not just a handful?
> Forgive me if Im wrong, but I just wanted to put my 2 cents in the pot. If
> we all would learn to work together as much as we fuss we would be making
> some tracks. Thanks everyone, Andrew N4LAZ
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From w3ab at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 22 20:05:12 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 13:05:12 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is This AMSAT's Future?
In-Reply-To: <1878678057.5597574.1595440540375@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <2E07D201-8BB9-4831-85B8-C6DC745CDE4A@mac.com>
	<b72883eb-0439-a677-54a0-6ccdc59845ce@pobox.com>
	<9bda0458-ff19-4a2c-96da-125f19f2628f@yahoo.com>
	<1878678057.5597574.1595440540375@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ab366ee4-4f7d-487d-8f9a-8a3ae5b55c31@yahoo.com>

??

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 22, 2020, 11:21, at 11:21, Ev Tupis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>People will find money for the things they want to do.
>
>On the other hand, cost is a convenient scapegoat.? Lol.
>
>Ev, W2EV
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, July 22, 2020, 01:19:30 PM EDT, W3AB/GEO via AMSAT-BB
><amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 
>
>
>
>
>
>Exactomento Zach. I'm a member of a local m/wave club and costs don't
>seem to be a detriment to getting on the air. Lots & lots of cheap
>commercial gear is available. A soldering iron & some parts tweaking &
>you've got a m/wave station.
>
>?___
>Sent from my two way wrist watch
>73 de W3AB/GEO?
>
>On Jul 22, 2020, 06:51, at 06:51, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB
><amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>On 07/22/20 02:23, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>>>>> This could very well be. Tech changes over time. IMHO, Hams need
>to
>>change over time to keep the hobby viable.
>>> 
>>> That required station is quite a jump from enjoying LEOs - and
>>getting involved in satellite communications for well under $200,
>>though.
>>
>>There will always be some cost to this hobby, part of which can be 
>>mitigated by more home-brewing of equipment. However, if one doesn't 
>>want scratch-build the entire system, there are rather inexpensive 
>>solutions from commercial components.
>>
>>OZ1BXM has an overview of the 13cm (2.4 GHz) uplink / 3cm (10 GHz) 
>>downlink system here:
>>
>>https://oz1bxm.dk/sat/QO100-rig.html
>>
>>Seems like the receive chain is quite simple and cheap. I recently 
>>acquired a 10 GHz LNB, new in a box, from eBay for $20. The RTL-SDR is
>
>>about another $20, and a bias-tee is probably $10, if one can't cobble
>
>>it together from the junk bin.
>>
>>The transmit path requires a 2.4 GHz radio or converter, which is
>>likely 
>>the most expensive part of the whole system.
>>
>>One could argue that this setup pushes new operators toward learning
>to
>>
>>track and listen before trying to transmit. This is probably a good
>>thing.
>>
>>The 10 GHz information will be useful for GOLF-1's microwave
>>capabilities.
>>
>>--- Zach
>>N0ZGO
>>_______________________________________________
>>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>Opinions expressed
>>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>of AMSAT-NA.
>>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>program!
>>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From rhyolite at leikhim.com  Wed Jul 22 17:12:50 2020
From: rhyolite at leikhim.com (Joe Leikhim)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 13:12:50 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb]  Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
Message-ID: <72621d9f-7a03-599b-ff3d-b38fab9afbea@leikhim.com>

Something for the new BOD to consider. I have been monitoring/lurking 
AMSAT-BB for years, and still have to go to the archives to read a 
thread, cut and paste an e-mail to contribute. I still have not figured 
out its clunkiness. It may be a barrier to new tech types. I am old 
school and it seems archaic to me.

I am using Groups.io and I am the owner/moderator of two mail lists over 
there. ICOM-IC-970 at groups.io and ICOM-ICR-9000 at groups.io.? (Welcome 
aboard if interested)

This is a very flexible system and has both an e-mail and web interface. 
It was designed to replace yahoo groups which declined into self 
destruction by yahoo. For my purposes, they run themselves.

I recommend considering it for AMSAT-BB.

Initially there will be some noise from folks in bandwidth challenged 
areas, but once they read the instructions and set their accounts 
appropriately it will work fine.

My accounts are free. For a very large organization there may be a 
subscription cost. It may be possible to have the archives converted and 
embedded into the list. If not, they can be stored in the files area or 
linked to their current location. If the change is made, be sure to 
redirect or block new submissions to the old system so there is thread 
continuity.

Feel free to subscribe to mine and check out the features.

-- 
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

JLeikhim at Leikhim.com

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM


From wa6ilt at cox.net  Wed Jul 22 19:32:23 2020
From: wa6ilt at cox.net (David Reinhart)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 15:32:23 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] "Walking and chewing gum at the same time"
Message-ID: <95ee3093-69b7-8a1f-a32a-c15667a78bdf@cox.net>

I put together an HEO station on the cheap. I even contributed an 
article to the Journal on how I did it. If you take your time, shop 
around, pick up some used gear, and do some work on your own, it doesn't 
have to cost an arm and a leg.

One problem is we keep talking HEO vs LEO and we forget what used to be 
in between. The RS birds were very easy to work. They had a much lower 
Doppler shift than the FM birds and didn't even need a VHF antenna that 
was steerable in elevation, just azimuth; or even an egg beater with 
enough power. I used a G5RV and an ARR preamp in the shack along with my 
HF transceiver for receive.

When I got my WAS OSCAR I worked my last state on an RS bird during a <1 
minute pass! When I submitted my application for the award, I did some 
analysis and figured out that over 50% of contacts were on RS birds, 
mostly RS-10.

At a couple of the Symposia I brought up the idea of a VHF/10m satellite 
built from two sets of multiple cubes, separated by the HF antenna made 
of spring steel, like measuring tape, with the VHF antennas at the end 
of one stack. The 10M transmitter in one stack, 2M receiver and control 
in the other, batteries in both, solar cells all over. Nobody was 
interested.

If you walk to talk price barriers, list price on a new MFJ 2M SSB 
transceiver is $359, and a CW module is available, too. I used a used 
Kenwood 2M multimode rig to start with.

I didn't contribute a fortune to AO-40, but I put in all I could afford 
a bit more besides. Not only was I terribly disappointed when it died, I 
was even more disappointed when everything but LEO seemed to vanish from 
our goals. Whoever is on the board, I want to see that back!

David Reinhart, W4DSR (ex-WA6ILT)


From w3ab at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 22 20:30:44 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 13:30:44 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is This AMSAT's Future?
In-Reply-To: <CAKoB7OojJrBjq3WYxyqYiK6Au1EgV8B7R1tcSfLNf-3aD=5M-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2E07D201-8BB9-4831-85B8-C6DC745CDE4A@mac.com>
	<b72883eb-0439-a677-54a0-6ccdc59845ce@pobox.com>
	<9bda0458-ff19-4a2c-96da-125f19f2628f@yahoo.com>
	<CAKoB7OojJrBjq3WYxyqYiK6Au1EgV8B7R1tcSfLNf-3aD=5M-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5b311efa-1c59-4d1d-8be8-8706f82e453f@yahoo.com>

Bob,

A good place, IMHO, to start would be to procure the International Microwave Handbook,Second Edition. Published by RSGB and ARRL, Edited by Andy Barter, G8ATD.




?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 22, 2020, 12:31, at 12:31, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>I'd like to learn more about microwave ham radio.
>
>Bob W7OTJ
>
>On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 10:30 AM W3AB/GEO via AMSAT-BB
><amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>wrote:
>
>> Exactomento Zach. I'm a member of a local m/wave club and costs don't
>seem
>> to be a detriment to getting on the air. Lots & lots of cheap
>commercial
>> gear is available. A soldering iron & some parts tweaking & you've
>got a
>> m/wave station.
>>
>> ?___
>> Sent from my two way wrist watch
>> 73 de W3AB/GEO?
>>
>> On Jul 22, 2020, 06:51, at 06:51, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> >On 07/22/20 02:23, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>> >>>> This could very well be. Tech changes over time. IMHO, Hams need
>to
>> >change over time to keep the hobby viable.
>> >>
>> >> That required station is quite a jump from enjoying LEOs - and
>> >getting involved in satellite communications for well under $200,
>> >though.
>> >
>> >There will always be some cost to this hobby, part of which can be
>> >mitigated by more home-brewing of equipment. However, if one doesn't
>> >want scratch-build the entire system, there are rather inexpensive
>> >solutions from commercial components.
>> >
>> >OZ1BXM has an overview of the 13cm (2.4 GHz) uplink / 3cm (10 GHz)
>> >downlink system here:
>> >
>> >https://oz1bxm.dk/sat/QO100-rig.html
>> >
>> >Seems like the receive chain is quite simple and cheap. I recently
>> >acquired a 10 GHz LNB, new in a box, from eBay for $20. The RTL-SDR
>is
>> >about another $20, and a bias-tee is probably $10, if one can't
>cobble
>> >it together from the junk bin.
>> >
>> >The transmit path requires a 2.4 GHz radio or converter, which is
>> >likely
>> >the most expensive part of the whole system.
>> >
>> >One could argue that this setup pushes new operators toward learning
>to
>> >
>> >track and listen before trying to transmit. This is probably a good
>> >thing.
>> >
>> >The 10 GHz information will be useful for GOLF-1's microwave
>> >capabilities.
>> >
>> >--- Zach
>> >N0ZGO
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>available
>> >to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> >Opinions expressed
>> >are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>views
>> >of AMSAT-NA.
>> >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> >program!
>> >Subscription settings:
>https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>> Subscription settings:
>https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 22 20:38:03 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 13:38:03 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Fwd: [50MHzandUp] Fwd: Fw: COVID-19 Microwave
	Inactivation Research - Parts needed
In-Reply-To: <CAHSk6L1fQwzmL8RBEnAaf8eu5TcsM6-8ZP1AYNJMrU-Atq7-sA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHSk6L1fQwzmL8RBEnAaf8eu5TcsM6-8ZP1AYNJMrU-Atq7-sA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7e48ba77-ea10-49eb-928a-493858954ca4@yahoo.com>

This just came across the m/wave club's reflector. Nothing to do with satcomms but it is amateur radio m/wave content.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 21, 2020, 17:57, at 17:57, David Vieira <dpvieira at alumni.ucdavis.edu> wrote:
>---------- Forwarded message ---------
>From: David Vieira <dpv at ieee.org>
>Date: Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 5:55 PM
>Subject: Fw: COVID-19 Microwave Inactivation Research - Parts needed
>To: David Vieira <dpvieira at alumni.ucdavis.edu>
>
>
>
>
>----- Forwarded Message -----
>*From:* Michelle Thompson via Ground-Station
><ground-station at lists.openresearch.institute>
>*To:* Michelle Thompson via Ground-Station
><ground-station at lists.openresearch.institute>
>*Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 05:51:20 PM PDT
>*Subject:* [Ground-station] Fwd: COVID-19 Microwave Inactivation
>Research -
>Parts needed
>
>If you can help Tony Long out, please get in touch with him.
>
>-Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
>
>---------- Forwarded message ---------
>From: *Tony Long* <tonylong at gmail.com>
>Date: Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 5:13 PM
>Subject: COVID-19 Microwave Inactivation Research - Parts needed
>To: <sdmicrowave at googlegroups.com>, <sbms at ham-radio.com>
>
>
>Fellow microwavers - it is time to apply your hobby to help save lives!
>I'm part of a small consortium working to determine whether the
>COVID-19
>virus can be inactivated with RF energy.  One of my colleagues 
>published
>results a few years back with a different virus and it showed that the
>virus in question could be destroyed with a very reasonable field
>strength
>in the few Ghz range.  Simulations show that the COVID-19 virus (which
>has
>a polarized, spherical shell) should resonate somewhere roughly in the
>8-12
>GHz range.  We need to find the resonance(s) so we can build devices to
>destroy the virus.
>
>Our test setup will involve two phases - first is spectral absorption
>measurement of a sample held between two horn antennas inside a
>bio-safety
>fume hood.  We want to do this at very low power levels to avoid
>destroying
>the virus before it is characterized.  Phase two will involve
>determining
>the energy density required to inactivate the virus.
>
>We are starting first with a similar, but non-human coronavirus and if
>it
>shows promise we will move to the COVID-19 virus in a bio-hazard level
>3
>facility at either UC Irvine or Duke University.  The academic team is
>working to get fast track funding now.
>
>I would like to get a test setup going as soon as possible so that we
>can
>get this  into the labs functional and with minimal intervention.  To
>that
>end, this Friday, Rohde & Schwarz is dropping off a high performance
>VNA
>but I need some other loaner parts until we get budget to buy them.  I
>imagine that among this community we can cobble together components and
>would love to have the amateur microwave community contribute to this
>important effort.  I'll let you imagine how useful RF decontamination
>might
>be for a variety of scenarios.
>
>Here's the team we've assembled:
>
>Dr. Brian Wong <https://www.uclahealth.org/brian-wong> ? Pulmonary,
>Critical care at UCLA
>
>Dr. Matthew Brenner <http://www.bli.uci.edu/mattbrenner/> ? Professor
>of
>Pulmonary Medicine at UC Irvine
>
>Dr. Donald Forthal
><http://www.immunology.uci.edu/profiles/forthal-donald.asp> ? Professor
>in
>the Center for Virus Research at UC Irvine
>
>Fred Mohamadi <http://www.tialinx.com/> PhD. ? founder of Tialinx, Inc.
>
>Zhongping Chen <https://engineering.uci.edu/users/zhongping-chen> PhD.
>?
>Professor of Biomedical Engineering, UC Irvine
>
>Chi-Kuang Sun
><http://gipo.ntu.edu.tw/eng/e_p6student-5-detail2.php?sn=25&is_manage=0&title_code=01>
>PhD. ? Distinguished Professor Photonics and Optoelectronics, National
>Taiwan University
>
>Tuan Vo-Dinh <https://bme.duke.edu/faculty/tuan-vo-dinh> PhD. ?
>Professor
>of Biomedical Engineering, Duke University
>
>Steve Stone ? Senior Technical Fellow, Northrop Grumman
>
>
>If you have the following equipment or know someone at a company that
>would
>like to loan equipment to the cause it would be greatly appreciated!
>
>
>Tony Long KC6QHP
>
>
>WR-90 15 dB standard Gain horn antenna (need two)
>
>WR-137 10 or 15 dB standard gain horn antenna (need two)
>
>WR-90 to N transitions (need two)
>
>WR-137 to N transitions (need two)
>
>A pair of quality test cables (unclear what sizes are needed but likely
>36
>inches), with N terminations
>
>~10 watt power amplifier covering 5-18 Ghz
>
>High power attenuator (18 Ghz, 30dB, 20 watts max)
>
>-- 
>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>Groups
>"SDMG" group.
>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>an
>email to sdmicrowave+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>To view this discussion on the web visit
>https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sdmicrowave/CA%2BcMJiuJsftHmg-ZTKGfER2dd74jKN9NKjRu_Rfmnkb-7bCvTQ%40mail.gmail.com
><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sdmicrowave/CA%2BcMJiuJsftHmg-ZTKGfER2dd74jKN9NKjRu_Rfmnkb-7bCvTQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>.
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>50MHzandUp mailing list
>50MHzandUp at lists.altadena.net
>https://lists.altadena.net/mailman/listinfo/50mhzandup

From marklhammond at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 21:16:54 2020
From: marklhammond at gmail.com (Mark L. Hammond)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:16:54 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO
In-Reply-To: <11BF644E-F02B-46CD-83C4-A18406685D42@icloud.com>
References: <287006801.5573097.1595436321317.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<287006801.5573097.1595436321317@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAN6TEUfamk4oNW-skiVFe9qAdi6gZHKt+VS92PemdX-bgSrdjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<11BF644E-F02B-46CD-83C4-A18406685D42@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CAPRXzypp20rMjgTEmFjfnzqRqmATpeVXcw6Uw3rnPwNpLjRwEQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi David,

The L-band receiver setup is on a 24 hour timer (unless the satellite
resets due to SAA or low battery voltage before the timer is up!).

As I recall, we did a pretty good poll via social media (FB, Twitter if I
recall) and Wednesday UTC was the top pick.

Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
AMSAT Director and Command Station



On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 4:54 PM David Worboys via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Following on from Patrick?s post (below), I just got home and checked to
> find that the first AO-92 pass for me is at 23:13 edt tonight which, as I
> have to get up at 3.15am for work, is a definite no-no!
>
> What is the reason for L/U to be only switched on for just a 24 hour
> period and during the work week?  Is it automatically switched back or does
> the command station do it? If that latter, can it be left on for say, 48
> hours to give operators a better chance of working L band or moved to a
> weekend slot? What with the non activity last week I think its been about
> three weeks since the last time I could use Mode L and whilst I appreciate
> that there are a lot of people who want to use that mode, opening up the
> ability would give a greater number of operators the opportunity.
>
> If the 24 hour period is the maximum available to preserve the health of
> the satellite then I understand but I would be interested in knowing the
> rationale!
>
> Many thanks
>
> 73
>
> David
> KG4ZLB
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 22, 2020, at 1:30 PM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Andrew!
>
> I am all for a variety of satellites. When we had AO-51 in the 2000s, I
> found the pieces to work its V/S FM repeater as I started working
> satellites. Doppler at 2.4 GHz made tuning those downlinks an almost
> constant thing on those passes, but it was fun. We have the sort of
> transponder you mentioned in your post with AO-92's L/V FM repeater
> right now. We are only permitted to use the 1.2 GHz band for satellite
> uplinks, not downlinks.
>
> Many satellite operators now have the 1.2 GHz uplink capability with
> the IC-9700, but the only time AO-92 L/V is available appears to be
> inconvenient for many who might want to try it right now (Tuesday
> evenings and Wednesday mornings in North America). We were told that
> the switch from a Sunday UTC activation (Saturday nights and Sunday
> mornings in North America) last year was not going to be a permanent
> change. I think there would be more new call signs heard on AO-92 L/V
> with those IC-9700s and other radios, if that mode was available at a
> more convenient time for those who have work or school commitments
> during the week. It isn't like we lack V/U or U/V FM satellites right
> now.
>
> 73!
>
>
>
>
>
> Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 4:46 PM Andrew Lazenby via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > Hello EveryoneI recently joined Amsat because I felt like a bit of a
> > hypocrite for complaining about things, and not doing my part to change
> > them. One thing that does bug me is the HEO satellites having microwave
> > uplinks and downlinks. I think that will greatly limit the clientele that
> > will be able to use these.
> > I have head many older hams gripe about LEO satellites and reflect back
> > on how back in the day there would be passes up for hours! Many of them
> > where using drifty transverters with terrible noise figures, turning
> > antennas with tv rotators and no preamp! The argument that I have heard
> to
> > move to mircowave uplinks and downlinks is lower noise, but if it worked
> > with them back then, then what's changed?
> > Something else to consider is that the microwave spectrum is under fire
> > from commercial interest more and more. Why not consider like a U/L or
> L/U
> > transponder? That would bring the envelope a little closer to where the
> > average ham could operate with out investing in some serious equipment,
> > while keeping the dream of HEO alive for the large percentage of
> satellite
> > operators, and not just a handful?
> > Forgive me if Im wrong, but I just wanted to put my 2 cents in the pot.
> If
> > we all would learn to work together as much as we fuss we would be making
> > some tracks. Thanks everyone, Andrew N4LAZ
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From kg4zlb at icloud.com  Wed Jul 22 21:24:55 2020
From: kg4zlb at icloud.com (David Worboys)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:24:55 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO
In-Reply-To: <CAPRXzypp20rMjgTEmFjfnzqRqmATpeVXcw6Uw3rnPwNpLjRwEQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <287006801.5573097.1595436321317.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<287006801.5573097.1595436321317@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAN6TEUfamk4oNW-skiVFe9qAdi6gZHKt+VS92PemdX-bgSrdjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<11BF644E-F02B-46CD-83C4-A18406685D42@icloud.com>
	<CAPRXzypp20rMjgTEmFjfnzqRqmATpeVXcw6Uw3rnPwNpLjRwEQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <06F26EAB-E7C9-4DF0-88E3-879F998F66FE@icloud.com>

OK, thanks Mark - so what would be the procedure to try and have this changed? Petition the Board and have a Membership vote on it perhaps?

Thanks

David
KG4ZLB




On Jul 22, 2020, at 5:16 PM, Mark L. Hammond <marklhammond at gmail.com> wrote:

Hi David,

The L-band receiver setup is on a 24 hour timer (unless the satellite resets due to SAA or low battery voltage before the timer is up!).   

As I recall, we did a pretty good poll via social media (FB, Twitter if I recall) and Wednesday UTC was the top pick.   

Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
AMSAT Director and Command Station



On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 4:54 PM David Worboys via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>> wrote:
Following on from Patrick?s post (below), I just got home and checked to find that the first AO-92 pass for me is at 23:13 edt tonight which, as I have to get up at 3.15am for work, is a definite no-no!

What is the reason for L/U to be only switched on for just a 24 hour period and during the work week?  Is it automatically switched back or does the command station do it? If that latter, can it be left on for say, 48 hours to give operators a better chance of working L band or moved to a weekend slot? What with the non activity last week I think its been about three weeks since the last time I could use Mode L and whilst I appreciate that there are a lot of people who want to use that mode, opening up the ability would give a greater number of operators the opportunity.

If the 24 hour period is the maximum available to preserve the health of the satellite then I understand but I would be interested in knowing the rationale!

Many thanks

73

David
KG4ZLB






On Jul 22, 2020, at 1:30 PM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>> wrote:

Hi Andrew!

I am all for a variety of satellites. When we had AO-51 in the 2000s, I
found the pieces to work its V/S FM repeater as I started working
satellites. Doppler at 2.4 GHz made tuning those downlinks an almost
constant thing on those passes, but it was fun. We have the sort of
transponder you mentioned in your post with AO-92's L/V FM repeater
right now. We are only permitted to use the 1.2 GHz band for satellite
uplinks, not downlinks.

Many satellite operators now have the 1.2 GHz uplink capability with
the IC-9700, but the only time AO-92 L/V is available appears to be
inconvenient for many who might want to try it right now (Tuesday
evenings and Wednesday mornings in North America). We were told that
the switch from a Sunday UTC activation (Saturday nights and Sunday
mornings in North America) last year was not going to be a permanent
change. I think there would be more new call signs heard on AO-92 L/V
with those IC-9700s and other radios, if that mode was available at a
more convenient time for those who have work or school commitments
during the week. It isn't like we lack V/U or U/V FM satellites right
now.

73!





Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/ <http://www.wd9ewk.net/>
Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK <http://twitter.com/WD9EWK>









On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 4:46 PM Andrew Lazenby via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>> wrote:

> Hello EveryoneI recently joined Amsat because I felt like a bit of a
> hypocrite for complaining about things, and not doing my part to change
> them. One thing that does bug me is the HEO satellites having microwave
> uplinks and downlinks. I think that will greatly limit the clientele that
> will be able to use these.
> I have head many older hams gripe about LEO satellites and reflect back
> on how back in the day there would be passes up for hours! Many of them
> where using drifty transverters with terrible noise figures, turning
> antennas with tv rotators and no preamp! The argument that I have heard to
> move to mircowave uplinks and downlinks is lower noise, but if it worked
> with them back then, then what's changed?
> Something else to consider is that the microwave spectrum is under fire
> from commercial interest more and more. Why not consider like a U/L or L/U
> transponder? That would bring the envelope a little closer to where the
> average ham could operate with out investing in some serious equipment,
> while keeping the dream of HEO alive for the large percentage of satellite
> operators, and not just a handful?
> Forgive me if Im wrong, but I just wanted to put my 2 cents in the pot. If
> we all would learn to work together as much as we fuss we would be making
> some tracks. Thanks everyone, Andrew N4LAZ
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb <https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb>

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb <https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb>


From jeff30339 at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 21:37:18 2020
From: jeff30339 at gmail.com (Jeff Johns)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 16:37:18 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO
In-Reply-To: <11BF644E-F02B-46CD-83C4-A18406685D42@icloud.com>
References: <11BF644E-F02B-46CD-83C4-A18406685D42@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <1A0C036F-DA9B-4B5D-AB70-A99ADF2B0CC1@gmail.com>

Once activated, there is a 24 hour timer for the satellite to remain in L/v mode. 

Jeff WE4B

> On Jul 22, 2020, at 3:56 PM, David Worboys via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?Following on from Patrick?s post (below), I just got home and checked to find that the first AO-92 pass for me is at 23:13 edt tonight which, as I have to get up at 3.15am for work, is a definite no-no!
> 
> What is the reason for L/U to be only switched on for just a 24 hour period and during the work week?  Is it automatically switched back or does the command station do it? If that latter, can it be left on for say, 48 hours to give operators a better chance of working L band or moved to a weekend slot? What with the non activity last week I think its been about three weeks since the last time I could use Mode L and whilst I appreciate that there are a lot of people who want to use that mode, opening up the ability would give a greater number of operators the opportunity.
> 
> If the 24 hour period is the maximum available to preserve the health of the satellite then I understand but I would be interested in knowing the rationale!
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> 73
> 
> David
> KG4ZLB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 22, 2020, at 1:30 PM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Andrew!
> 
> I am all for a variety of satellites. When we had AO-51 in the 2000s, I
> found the pieces to work its V/S FM repeater as I started working
> satellites. Doppler at 2.4 GHz made tuning those downlinks an almost
> constant thing on those passes, but it was fun. We have the sort of
> transponder you mentioned in your post with AO-92's L/V FM repeater
> right now. We are only permitted to use the 1.2 GHz band for satellite
> uplinks, not downlinks.
> 
> Many satellite operators now have the 1.2 GHz uplink capability with
> the IC-9700, but the only time AO-92 L/V is available appears to be
> inconvenient for many who might want to try it right now (Tuesday
> evenings and Wednesday mornings in North America). We were told that
> the switch from a Sunday UTC activation (Saturday nights and Sunday
> mornings in North America) last year was not going to be a permanent
> change. I think there would be more new call signs heard on AO-92 L/V
> with those IC-9700s and other radios, if that mode was available at a
> more convenient time for those who have work or school commitments
> during the week. It isn't like we lack V/U or U/V FM satellites right
> now.
> 
> 73!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 4:46 PM Andrew Lazenby via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello EveryoneI recently joined Amsat because I felt like a bit of a
>> hypocrite for complaining about things, and not doing my part to change
>> them. One thing that does bug me is the HEO satellites having microwave
>> uplinks and downlinks. I think that will greatly limit the clientele that
>> will be able to use these.
>> I have head many older hams gripe about LEO satellites and reflect back
>> on how back in the day there would be passes up for hours! Many of them
>> where using drifty transverters with terrible noise figures, turning
>> antennas with tv rotators and no preamp! The argument that I have heard to
>> move to mircowave uplinks and downlinks is lower noise, but if it worked
>> with them back then, then what's changed?
>> Something else to consider is that the microwave spectrum is under fire
>> from commercial interest more and more. Why not consider like a U/L or L/U
>> transponder? That would bring the envelope a little closer to where the
>> average ham could operate with out investing in some serious equipment,
>> while keeping the dream of HEO alive for the large percentage of satellite
>> operators, and not just a handful?
>> Forgive me if Im wrong, but I just wanted to put my 2 cents in the pot. If
>> we all would learn to work together as much as we fuss we would be making
>> some tracks. Thanks everyone, Andrew N4LAZ
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From rhyolite at leikhim.com  Wed Jul 22 21:42:00 2020
From: rhyolite at leikhim.com (Joe Leikhim)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:42:00 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Fwd: [50MHzandUp] Fwd: Fw: COVID-19 Microwave
 Inactivation Research - Parts needed
Message-ID: <156a8f9d-230a-094a-566a-be92b419f800@leikhim.com>

That is pretty cool. I was thinking about a hat or a pendent that would use ions to deflect or attract plumes of virus and safely contain them. A dome of protection of sorts just a wild idea..

"This just came across the m/wave club's reflector. Nothing to do with satcomms but it is amateur radio m/wave content.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?"

-- 
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

JLeikhim at Leikhim.com

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM


From wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc  Wed Jul 22 21:51:51 2020
From: wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc (Burns Fisher)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:51:51 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO
In-Reply-To: <11BF644E-F02B-46CD-83C4-A18406685D42@icloud.com>
References: <287006801.5573097.1595436321317.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<287006801.5573097.1595436321317@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAN6TEUfamk4oNW-skiVFe9qAdi6gZHKt+VS92PemdX-bgSrdjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<11BF644E-F02B-46CD-83C4-A18406685D42@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CABX7KxViiZVuS+o3RHd_9FnBvSOcVJymvBCKT-ECahUgydeOnQ@mail.gmail.com>

As the volunteer who wrote the code that does it, I can tell you with
certainty that when AO-92 is switched to L-band it turns off in 24 hours
automatically (or sooner if the satellite goes into safe mode, resets, or
is commanded to UHF).  The time was chosen just because of the
uncertainties.  Would L-band work?  Would anyone use it? Will the power use
be prohibitive (analysis said it was ok, but...)  The time is hard-coded
in. It would have been nice to be able to change it by command, but the
entire design of the original Foxes were based on a lot of uncertainty.
There was not much time to change after some certainty was gained after the
first launch or 2, so that capability is not available.  Fox-1e is an
improvement over the previous Foxes.  HuskySat was an improvement over
that.  (Despite the opposite launch order).  And Golf will be a big
improvement over both, in all cases because of what we learned from the
earlier satellites and the extra time available.

As to the day that it is switched, that's outside of my pay grade :-)

73,

Burns WB1FJ

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 4:56 PM David Worboys via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Following on from Patrick?s post (below), I just got home and checked to
> find that the first AO-92 pass for me is at 23:13 edt tonight which, as I
> have to get up at 3.15am for work, is a definite no-no!
>
> What is the reason for L/U to be only switched on for just a 24 hour
> period and during the work week?  Is it automatically switched back or does
> the command station do it? If that latter, can it be left on for say, 48
> hours to give operators a better chance of working L band or moved to a
> weekend slot? What with the non activity last week I think its been about
> three weeks since the last time I could use Mode L and whilst I appreciate
> that there are a lot of people who want to use that mode, opening up the
> ability would give a greater number of operators the opportunity.
>
> If the 24 hour period is the maximum available to preserve the health of
> the satellite then I understand but I would be interested in knowing the
> rationale!
>
> Many thanks
>
> 73
>
> David
> KG4ZLB
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 22, 2020, at 1:30 PM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Andrew!
>
> I am all for a variety of satellites. When we had AO-51 in the 2000s, I
> found the pieces to work its V/S FM repeater as I started working
> satellites. Doppler at 2.4 GHz made tuning those downlinks an almost
> constant thing on those passes, but it was fun. We have the sort of
> transponder you mentioned in your post with AO-92's L/V FM repeater
> right now. We are only permitted to use the 1.2 GHz band for satellite
> uplinks, not downlinks.
>
> Many satellite operators now have the 1.2 GHz uplink capability with
> the IC-9700, but the only time AO-92 L/V is available appears to be
> inconvenient for many who might want to try it right now (Tuesday
> evenings and Wednesday mornings in North America). We were told that
> the switch from a Sunday UTC activation (Saturday nights and Sunday
> mornings in North America) last year was not going to be a permanent
> change. I think there would be more new call signs heard on AO-92 L/V
> with those IC-9700s and other radios, if that mode was available at a
> more convenient time for those who have work or school commitments
> during the week. It isn't like we lack V/U or U/V FM satellites right
> now.
>
> 73!
>
>
>
>
>
> Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 4:46 PM Andrew Lazenby via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > Hello EveryoneI recently joined Amsat because I felt like a bit of a
> > hypocrite for complaining about things, and not doing my part to change
> > them. One thing that does bug me is the HEO satellites having microwave
> > uplinks and downlinks. I think that will greatly limit the clientele that
> > will be able to use these.
> > I have head many older hams gripe about LEO satellites and reflect back
> > on how back in the day there would be passes up for hours! Many of them
> > where using drifty transverters with terrible noise figures, turning
> > antennas with tv rotators and no preamp! The argument that I have heard
> to
> > move to mircowave uplinks and downlinks is lower noise, but if it worked
> > with them back then, then what's changed?
> > Something else to consider is that the microwave spectrum is under fire
> > from commercial interest more and more. Why not consider like a U/L or
> L/U
> > transponder? That would bring the envelope a little closer to where the
> > average ham could operate with out investing in some serious equipment,
> > while keeping the dream of HEO alive for the large percentage of
> satellite
> > operators, and not just a handful?
> > Forgive me if Im wrong, but I just wanted to put my 2 cents in the pot.
> If
> > we all would learn to work together as much as we fuss we would be making
> > some tracks. Thanks everyone, Andrew N4LAZ
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From glasbrenner at mindspring.com  Wed Jul 22 22:11:07 2020
From: glasbrenner at mindspring.com (Andrew Glasbrenner)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 18:11:07 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-92 L/v
Message-ID: <003f01d66075$00d138c0$0273aa40$@mindspring.com>

Hi David,

Mark is correct. We did several polls, and they all came back to keep it where it is. The results were 2 to 1 and 3 to 1 in the two polls AMSAT did on FB and Twitter. There are other factors at play, but Tuesday night L/v seems to be the clear majority preference.

If ESEO is ever placed in amateur service, that will be an additional L band resource. Golf-TEE and Golf-1 will also have L band uplink capability with the 10GHz downlink.

73, Drew KO4MA
AMSAT VP Operations

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Mark L. Hammond via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 5:17 PM
To: David Worboys <kg4zlb at icloud.com>
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] HEO

Hi David,

The L-band receiver setup is on a 24 hour timer (unless the satellite resets due to SAA or low battery voltage before the timer is up!).

As I recall, we did a pretty good poll via social media (FB, Twitter if I
recall) and Wednesday UTC was the top pick.

Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
AMSAT Director and Command Station



On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 4:54 PM David Worboys via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Following on from Patrick?s post (below), I just got home and checked 
> to find that the first AO-92 pass for me is at 23:13 edt tonight 
> which, as I have to get up at 3.15am for work, is a definite no-no!
>
> What is the reason for L/U to be only switched on for just a 24 hour 
> period and during the work week?  Is it automatically switched back or 
> does the command station do it? If that latter, can it be left on for 
> say, 48 hours to give operators a better chance of working L band or 
> moved to a weekend slot? What with the non activity last week I think 
> its been about three weeks since the last time I could use Mode L and 
> whilst I appreciate that there are a lot of people who want to use 
> that mode, opening up the ability would give a greater number of operators the opportunity.
>
> If the 24 hour period is the maximum available to preserve the health 
> of the satellite then I understand but I would be interested in 
> knowing the rationale!
>
> Many thanks
>
> 73
>
> David
> KG4ZLB
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 22, 2020, at 1:30 PM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via 
> AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Andrew!
>
> I am all for a variety of satellites. When we had AO-51 in the 2000s, 
> I found the pieces to work its V/S FM repeater as I started working 
> satellites. Doppler at 2.4 GHz made tuning those downlinks an almost 
> constant thing on those passes, but it was fun. We have the sort of 
> transponder you mentioned in your post with AO-92's L/V FM repeater 
> right now. We are only permitted to use the 1.2 GHz band for satellite 
> uplinks, not downlinks.
>
> Many satellite operators now have the 1.2 GHz uplink capability with 
> the IC-9700, but the only time AO-92 L/V is available appears to be 
> inconvenient for many who might want to try it right now (Tuesday 
> evenings and Wednesday mornings in North America). We were told that 
> the switch from a Sunday UTC activation (Saturday nights and Sunday 
> mornings in North America) last year was not going to be a permanent 
> change. I think there would be more new call signs heard on AO-92 L/V 
> with those IC-9700s and other radios, if that mode was available at a 
> more convenient time for those who have work or school commitments 
> during the week. It isn't like we lack V/U or U/V FM satellites right 
> now.
>
> 73!
>
>
>
>
>
> Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 4:46 PM Andrew Lazenby via AMSAT-BB < 
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > Hello EveryoneI recently joined Amsat because I felt like a bit of a 
> > hypocrite for complaining about things, and not doing my part to 
> > change them. One thing that does bug me is the HEO satellites having 
> > microwave uplinks and downlinks. I think that will greatly limit the 
> > clientele that will be able to use these.
> > I have head many older hams gripe about LEO satellites and reflect 
> > back on how back in the day there would be passes up for hours! Many 
> > of them where using drifty transverters with terrible noise figures, 
> > turning antennas with tv rotators and no preamp! The argument that I 
> > have heard
> to
> > move to mircowave uplinks and downlinks is lower noise, but if it 
> > worked with them back then, then what's changed?
> > Something else to consider is that the microwave spectrum is under 
> > fire from commercial interest more and more. Why not consider like a 
> > U/L or
> L/U
> > transponder? That would bring the envelope a little closer to where 
> > the average ham could operate with out investing in some serious 
> > equipment, while keeping the dream of HEO alive for the large 
> > percentage of
> satellite
> > operators, and not just a handful?
> > Forgive me if Im wrong, but I just wanted to put my 2 cents in the pot.
> If
> > we all would learn to work together as much as we fuss we would be 
> > making some tracks. Thanks everyone, Andrew N4LAZ
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available 
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. 
> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect 
> the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available 
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. 
> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect 
> the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From rhyolite at leikhim.com  Wed Jul 22 16:06:34 2020
From: rhyolite at leikhim.com (Joe Leikhim)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:06:34 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb]  Is This AMSAT's Future?
Message-ID: <de0761b0-1b3a-6c31-ba03-3e7d09589e48@leikhim.com>

Why not? QO-100 is a success. The antennas for up link and downlink for such a station are easily made or procured. The LNB a simple decades old modification. The stations would be friendly to HOA and apartment dwellers alike. I dont see the objection.

"These new projects - seems like they are ?marketed? towards a very small segment os satellite operators.

Is there truly a worthwhile ?return on investment" when a ground station might have to include ?

  ? ? radio system is a 10 GHz downlink that will support 1 Mbps.
You'll need a 10 GHz antenna that can be steered to track a LEO
satellite and probably a low-noise block downconverter (LNB)
feeding an SDR.  I think similar receivers are used for QO-100,
so a Google search may yield some designs that are currently
working, although QO-100 is nearly stationary ? ?

Feels like a very few hams will partake ? Exciting, indeed. But surely
not geared to the masses ?

Clint Bradford K6LCS"

-- 
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

JLeikhim at Leikhim.com

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM


From kg4zlb at icloud.com  Wed Jul 22 22:31:16 2020
From: kg4zlb at icloud.com (David Worboys)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 18:31:16 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO
In-Reply-To: <1A0C036F-DA9B-4B5D-AB70-A99ADF2B0CC1@gmail.com>
References: <11BF644E-F02B-46CD-83C4-A18406685D42@icloud.com>
	<1A0C036F-DA9B-4B5D-AB70-A99ADF2B0CC1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9E9A8DC7-08A0-484C-B9B9-D02C2A0FE794@icloud.com>

Many thanks for the ?on" BB responses and the ones sent directly to me - I have a better understanding of this now and I am grateful for your time in explaining it!

Best wishes

David
KG4ZLB




On Jul 22, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

Once activated, there is a 24 hour timer for the satellite to remain in L/v mode. 

Jeff WE4B

> On Jul 22, 2020, at 3:56 PM, David Worboys via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?Following on from Patrick?s post (below), I just got home and checked to find that the first AO-92 pass for me is at 23:13 edt tonight which, as I have to get up at 3.15am for work, is a definite no-no!
> 
> What is the reason for L/U to be only switched on for just a 24 hour period and during the work week?  Is it automatically switched back or does the command station do it? If that latter, can it be left on for say, 48 hours to give operators a better chance of working L band or moved to a weekend slot? What with the non activity last week I think its been about three weeks since the last time I could use Mode L and whilst I appreciate that there are a lot of people who want to use that mode, opening up the ability would give a greater number of operators the opportunity.
> 
> If the 24 hour period is the maximum available to preserve the health of the satellite then I understand but I would be interested in knowing the rationale!
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> 73
> 
> David
> KG4ZLB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 22, 2020, at 1:30 PM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Andrew!
> 
> I am all for a variety of satellites. When we had AO-51 in the 2000s, I
> found the pieces to work its V/S FM repeater as I started working
> satellites. Doppler at 2.4 GHz made tuning those downlinks an almost
> constant thing on those passes, but it was fun. We have the sort of
> transponder you mentioned in your post with AO-92's L/V FM repeater
> right now. We are only permitted to use the 1.2 GHz band for satellite
> uplinks, not downlinks.
> 
> Many satellite operators now have the 1.2 GHz uplink capability with
> the IC-9700, but the only time AO-92 L/V is available appears to be
> inconvenient for many who might want to try it right now (Tuesday
> evenings and Wednesday mornings in North America). We were told that
> the switch from a Sunday UTC activation (Saturday nights and Sunday
> mornings in North America) last year was not going to be a permanent
> change. I think there would be more new call signs heard on AO-92 L/V
> with those IC-9700s and other radios, if that mode was available at a
> more convenient time for those who have work or school commitments
> during the week. It isn't like we lack V/U or U/V FM satellites right
> now.
> 
> 73!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 4:46 PM Andrew Lazenby via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello EveryoneI recently joined Amsat because I felt like a bit of a
>> hypocrite for complaining about things, and not doing my part to change
>> them. One thing that does bug me is the HEO satellites having microwave
>> uplinks and downlinks. I think that will greatly limit the clientele that
>> will be able to use these.
>> I have head many older hams gripe about LEO satellites and reflect back
>> on how back in the day there would be passes up for hours! Many of them
>> where using drifty transverters with terrible noise figures, turning
>> antennas with tv rotators and no preamp! The argument that I have heard to
>> move to mircowave uplinks and downlinks is lower noise, but if it worked
>> with them back then, then what's changed?
>> Something else to consider is that the microwave spectrum is under fire
>> from commercial interest more and more. Why not consider like a U/L or L/U
>> transponder? That would bring the envelope a little closer to where the
>> average ham could operate with out investing in some serious equipment,
>> while keeping the dream of HEO alive for the large percentage of satellite
>> operators, and not just a handful?
>> Forgive me if Im wrong, but I just wanted to put my 2 cents in the pot. If
>> we all would learn to work together as much as we fuss we would be making
>> some tracks. Thanks everyone, Andrew N4LAZ
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From cchunter3 at mindspring.com  Wed Jul 22 23:20:21 2020
From: cchunter3 at mindspring.com (christy hunter)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 16:20:21 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] RS-44 contact with HI sta
In-Reply-To: <ddda9914-93ec-7f36-28f3-57fb227dbea0@arrl.net>
References: <ddda9914-93ec-7f36-28f3-57fb227dbea0@arrl.net>
Message-ID: <a98d7f84-d848-6e4d-2a00-32b499cff94b@mindspring.com>

just had contact ( 2300ISH UTC) with Robert, NH7WN, on RS44 for those 
shooting for HI.

73 Christy KB6LTY DM14


From w2ev at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 22 23:34:29 2020
From: w2ev at yahoo.com (Ev Tupis)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 23:34:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] QO-100 LNB
References: <646972852.5803377.1595460869291.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <646972852.5803377.1595460869291@mail.yahoo.com>

Does the LNB have a dielectric lens on it?? I can't tell from the pictures (and I'm looking to experiment with dielectric lenses...and am looking for an inexpensive source).

Ev, W2EV
Rochester VHF Group

From bruce at perens.com  Thu Jul 23 00:08:30 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:08:30 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] QO-100 LNB
In-Reply-To: <646972852.5803377.1595460869291@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <646972852.5803377.1595460869291.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<646972852.5803377.1595460869291@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOvn+43ncLpNhDEujAGwwW-FXgKbnjA71xYzXeOcZh=54A@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 4:35 PM Ev Tupis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> I'm looking to experiment with dielectric lenses...and am looking for an
> inexpensive source).


There are a lot of papers online about making them from parrafin.

From brad.wf7t at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 22:54:59 2020
From: brad.wf7t at gmail.com (Brad Brooks WF7T)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:54:59 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Filters
References: <1052857c-94eb-4d11-ba9b-343f03e095ae@Spark>
Message-ID: <5bfaa0f1-07b7-4759-a5d0-d0cb3516a686@Spark>

Bob, first...I hope you feel better quickly. Second, have you seen this?

http://www.w1ghz.org/filter/Combline_Filters_for_VHF_and_UHF.pdf

73 Brad WF7T

From mfncooper at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 22:28:45 2020
From: mfncooper at gmail.com (Martin Cooper)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 15:28:45 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <72621d9f-7a03-599b-ff3d-b38fab9afbea@leikhim.com>
References: <72621d9f-7a03-599b-ff3d-b38fab9afbea@leikhim.com>
Message-ID: <CAGEtHi+UkDF3=okiZnkjNpmb2-KvsxjRisC6aXwSZ+SUggYqqA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 2:22 PM Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Something for the new BOD to consider. I have been monitoring/lurking
> AMSAT-BB for years, and still have to go to the archives to read a
> thread, cut and paste an e-mail to contribute. I still have not figured
> out its clunkiness. It may be a barrier to new tech types. I am old
> school and it seems archaic to me.
>

In addition to its own archives, amsat-bb used to be archived at
mail-archive.com here:

https://www.mail-archive.com/amsat-bb at amsat.org/

For whatever reason, that seems to have stopped in 2014. If we could get
that restarted, that would be useful, since it has a pretty good Advanced
Search capability.

Martin.
KD6YAM



> I am using Groups.io and I am the owner/moderator of two mail lists over
> there. ICOM-IC-970 at groups.io and ICOM-ICR-9000 at groups.io.  (Welcome
> aboard if interested)
>
> This is a very flexible system and has both an e-mail and web interface.
> It was designed to replace yahoo groups which declined into self
> destruction by yahoo. For my purposes, they run themselves.
>
> I recommend considering it for AMSAT-BB.
>
> Initially there will be some noise from folks in bandwidth challenged
> areas, but once they read the instructions and set their accounts
> appropriately it will work fine.
>
> My accounts are free. For a very large organization there may be a
> subscription cost. It may be possible to have the archives converted and
> embedded into the list. If not, they can be stored in the files area or
> linked to their current location. If the change is made, be sure to
> redirect or block new submissions to the old system so there is thread
> continuity.
>
> Feel free to subscribe to mine and check out the features.
>
> --
> Joe Leikhim
>
>
> Leikhim and Associates
>
> Communications Consultants
>
> Oviedo, Florida
>
> JLeikhim at Leikhim.com
>
> 407-982-0446
>
> WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From k9jkm at comcast.net  Thu Jul 23 01:50:54 2020
From: k9jkm at comcast.net (JoAnne K9JKM)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 20:50:54 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <CAGEtHi+UkDF3=okiZnkjNpmb2-KvsxjRisC6aXwSZ+SUggYqqA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72621d9f-7a03-599b-ff3d-b38fab9afbea@leikhim.com>
	<CAGEtHi+UkDF3=okiZnkjNpmb2-KvsxjRisC6aXwSZ+SUggYqqA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5F18ECFE.6060101@comcast.net>

 > https://www.mail-archive.com/amsat-bb at amsat.org/
 > For whatever reason, that seems to have stopped in 2014.

Perhaps these archives might be what you are looking for?
https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/

-- 
73 de JoAnne K9JKM
k9jkm at amsat.org


From kd6yam at amsat.org  Thu Jul 23 02:25:53 2020
From: kd6yam at amsat.org (Martin Cooper)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 19:25:53 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
In-Reply-To: <5F18ECFE.6060101@comcast.net>
References: <72621d9f-7a03-599b-ff3d-b38fab9afbea@leikhim.com>
	<CAGEtHi+UkDF3=okiZnkjNpmb2-KvsxjRisC6aXwSZ+SUggYqqA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5F18ECFE.6060101@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAGEtHiLA6z0oyXA-TGHjsH0b-_pU6YVOVmwU-K20dnP5gdTnTw@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Perhaps these archives might be what you are looking for?
> https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/


No, the problem is that those native mailman archives, while complete, are
not searchable.

The mail-archive.com archives have a proper Advanced Search option. That's
pretty much why mail-archive.com exists. It would be easy to get amsat-bb
added again, but I don't know if there's a reason they were stopped in 2014.

Martin.
KD6YAM

From clintbradford at mac.com  Thu Jul 23 02:57:12 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 19:57:12 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is This AMSAT's Future?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.8264.1595454311.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.8264.1595454311.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <61A2FA3D-0C80-4B72-9DB5-BFE46CBB64ED@mac.com>

Some wonderfully informative answers - many thanks!

Clint Bradford K6LCS


> On Jul 22, 2020, at 2:45 PM, amsat-bb-request at amsat.org wrote:
> 
>  Is This AMSAT's Future?


From w3ab at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 23 04:29:19 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 21:29:19 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Filters
In-Reply-To: <5bfaa0f1-07b7-4759-a5d0-d0cb3516a686@Spark>
References: <1052857c-94eb-4d11-ba9b-343f03e095ae@Spark>
	<5bfaa0f1-07b7-4759-a5d0-d0cb3516a686@Spark>
Message-ID: <e9a4d4f6-0843-4186-b441-04c183876c55@yahoo.com>

Brad,

Good find. Though Bob wants a dual band filter with 1 in/1 out. I wonder if those might be able to be combined some way.

I will definitely save the article. Thanks.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 22, 2020, 17:49, at 17:49, Brad Brooks WF7T via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>Bob, first...I hope you feel better quickly. Second, have you seen
>this?
>
>http://www.w1ghz.org/filter/Combline_Filters_for_VHF_and_UHF.pdf
>
>73 Brad WF7T
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Thu Jul 23 05:07:44 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 00:07:44 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is This AMSAT's Future?
In-Reply-To: <CAKoB7OojJrBjq3WYxyqYiK6Au1EgV8B7R1tcSfLNf-3aD=5M-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2E07D201-8BB9-4831-85B8-C6DC745CDE4A@mac.com>
	<b72883eb-0439-a677-54a0-6ccdc59845ce@pobox.com>
	<9bda0458-ff19-4a2c-96da-125f19f2628f@yahoo.com>
	<CAKoB7OojJrBjq3WYxyqYiK6Au1EgV8B7R1tcSfLNf-3aD=5M-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ef305518-4def-7398-ef89-d1f2fd495a83@pobox.com>

On 2020-07-22 13:18, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> I'd like to learn more about microwave ham radio.

Hello Bob,

In these parts, North Texas Microwave Society (https://www.ntms.org/) is 
a gathering of microwave enthusiasts. I'm a relative newcomer to this 
group, but there are a lot of good articles and presentations on the 
website.

W1GHZ (http://www.w1ghz.org/) has a site chock-full of various microwave 
projects, ideas, and publications.

The RTL-SDR folks have an entire category dedicated to microwave 
projects and links, but it is not all amateur radio. 
https://www.rtl-sdr.com/tag/microwave/

These sites just scratch the surface of microwave work. I'm sure there 
are many on the -bb list that could provide other pointers.

--- Zach
N0ZGO




From rwmcgwier at gmail.com  Thu Jul 23 12:11:54 2020
From: rwmcgwier at gmail.com (Robert McGwier)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 07:11:54 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Hawkeye 360 news
Message-ID: <CA+K5gzfyynv9V9tQFs7akcwSQ-9R3jPO4JmOQMeTs_NJk3QUWQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hawkeye 360, a company I cofounded,  has its next cluster of 3 spacecraft
through testing. It has significant new capabilities. And there are FIVE
more clusters planned for launch in 2021.

This candidate for the board of directors of AMSAT brings experience and
capabilities that can help AMSAT.

I ask for your vote and if you can find a more qualified candidate vote for
them.

https://spacenews.com/hawkeye-360-cluster-2/

Bob McGwier
N4HY

From propgrinder at gmail.com  Thu Jul 23 12:47:53 2020
From: propgrinder at gmail.com (Bob Hammond)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 05:47:53 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is This AMSAT's Future?
In-Reply-To: <ef305518-4def-7398-ef89-d1f2fd495a83@pobox.com>
References: <2E07D201-8BB9-4831-85B8-C6DC745CDE4A@mac.com>
	<b72883eb-0439-a677-54a0-6ccdc59845ce@pobox.com>
	<9bda0458-ff19-4a2c-96da-125f19f2628f@yahoo.com>
	<CAKoB7OojJrBjq3WYxyqYiK6Au1EgV8B7R1tcSfLNf-3aD=5M-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<ef305518-4def-7398-ef89-d1f2fd495a83@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <CAKoB7Ora-c_MXxdKzYj_KhqRmTEKw4a6ofCNFh_h5FEq8tEnnw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to all who gave me information on microwave ham radio.

Bob W7OTJ

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 10:10 PM Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> On 2020-07-22 13:18, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > I'd like to learn more about microwave ham radio.
>
> Hello Bob,
>
> In these parts, North Texas Microwave Society (https://www.ntms.org/) is
> a gathering of microwave enthusiasts. I'm a relative newcomer to this
> group, but there are a lot of good articles and presentations on the
> website.
>
> W1GHZ (http://www.w1ghz.org/) has a site chock-full of various microwave
> projects, ideas, and publications.
>
> The RTL-SDR folks have an entire category dedicated to microwave
> projects and links, but it is not all amateur radio.
> https://www.rtl-sdr.com/tag/microwave/
>
> These sites just scratch the surface of microwave work. I'm sure there
> are many on the -bb list that could provide other pointers.
>
> --- Zach
> N0ZGO
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From w2ev at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 23 13:02:31 2020
From: w2ev at yahoo.com (Ev Tupis)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 13:02:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Hawkeye 360 news
In-Reply-To: <CA+K5gzfyynv9V9tQFs7akcwSQ-9R3jPO4JmOQMeTs_NJk3QUWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+K5gzfyynv9V9tQFs7akcwSQ-9R3jPO4JmOQMeTs_NJk3QUWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <641279222.6016705.1595509351366@mail.yahoo.com>

Good luck, Bob!? 'great to have your willingness, experience, contacts, and energy!

Ev, W2EV

PS: Remember the thread about finding people with a "6-degrees of separation" from resources that could be helpful to getting amateur radio payloads into HEO?? Yeah, the one that somehow got so heated that a moderator asked that it be ended?? It seems that the nay-sayers have some rethinking to do.? Lol.


On Thursday, July 23, 2020, 08:16:35 AM EDT, Robert McGwier via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 

Hawkeye 360, a company I cofounded,? has its next cluster of 3 spacecraft
through testing. It has significant new capabilities. And there are FIVE
more clusters planned for launch in 2021.

This candidate for the board of directors of AMSAT brings experience and
capabilities that can help AMSAT.

I ask for your vote and if you can find a more qualified candidate vote for
them.

https://spacenews.com/hawkeye-360-cluster-2/

Bob McGwier
N4HY
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From peter at magicbug.co.uk  Thu Jul 23 13:47:31 2020
From: peter at magicbug.co.uk (Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL))
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 14:47:31 +0100
Subject: [amsat-bb] Hawkeye 360 news
In-Reply-To: <CA+K5gzfyynv9V9tQFs7akcwSQ-9R3jPO4JmOQMeTs_NJk3QUWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+K5gzfyynv9V9tQFs7akcwSQ-9R3jPO4JmOQMeTs_NJk3QUWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFvUaipK+jJJa9uRTD-qNR6TnisAU0Pv4TFZ9pHoG_UE4QYdvQ@mail.gmail.com>

Fantastic about the launches Bob, with the next cluster is there any
possibility that they could include amateur radio payloads?

Peter, 2M0SQL

On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 at 13:15, Robert McGwier via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Hawkeye 360, a company I cofounded,  has its next cluster of 3 spacecraft
> through testing. It has significant new capabilities. And there are FIVE
> more clusters planned for launch in 2021.
>
> This candidate for the board of directors of AMSAT brings experience and
> capabilities that can help AMSAT.
>
> I ask for your vote and if you can find a more qualified candidate vote for
> them.
>
> https://spacenews.com/hawkeye-360-cluster-2/
>
> Bob McGwier
> N4HY
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From kd4iz at frawg.org  Thu Jul 23 14:53:36 2020
From: kd4iz at frawg.org (kd4iz at frawg.org)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 10:53:36 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballots?
Message-ID: <012a01d66101$0d3d48b0$27b7da10$@frawg.org>

Folks,

 

I am an AMSAT life member and very much want to participate in the upcoming
election of directors. I have been watching the mail for a ballot envelope
from AMSAT and have yet to see one.

 

Were the ballot envelopes mailed out all at once or are they being sent
"batched"? When should I start to worry? Thanks much in advance for your
answer.

 

Jack Spitznagel, DDS, PhD

KD4IZ

Trustee for NR3DT

Museum Ship USCGC W-37 Amateur Radio Group

 

 

 

 


From zmetzing at pobox.com  Thu Jul 23 16:15:55 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 11:15:55 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Orbit visualization & antenna performance
Message-ID: <9c5105dd-bd1c-3600-5269-01775862c6f6@pobox.com>

Hello all,

In order to evaluate antenna effectiveness in the 70cm downlink band, 
I'm trying to visualize the orbits of the following satellites:

AO-27
SO-50
RS-44

I can find the perigee/apogee and output power on these, and, so far, I 
have:

AO-27	788x801 km	1W/0.5W/0.1W
SO-50	603x713 km	0.25W
RS-44	1175x1511 km	5W

On the FM birds: My observed data shows that SO-50 is difficult to hear 
while AO-27 is booming, so I hypothesize that AO-27 is transmitting with 
0.5W or 1W.

RS-44's beacon seems to be fairly weak, while CW/SSB signals on the 
transponder are quite strong.

Does anyone know where I might find more details on RS-44's construction 
such as antennas and power output for the beacon?

Thanks,

--- Zach
N0ZGO
EM12jw





From sjdevience at gmail.com  Thu Jul 23 17:03:11 2020
From: sjdevience at gmail.com (Stephen DeVience)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 12:03:11 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Orbit visualization & antenna performance
Message-ID: <CAMPfQQA+k9AXkbzyyc0Zr092GF-YS11QxD=7u7PhOrAiKQdKiA@mail.gmail.com>

I couldn't find any tech specs other than what you have, but I did find a
video about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWHn4H-BDPI

Also consider using Lilacsat-2 for your comparison. It has a circularly
polarized UHF downlink.
http://lilacsat.hit.edu.cn/wp/?page_id=257
https://amsat-uk.org/satellites/comms/lilacsat-2/

-Stephen, N8URE

From rwmcgwier at gmail.com  Thu Jul 23 17:56:16 2020
From: rwmcgwier at gmail.com (Robert McGwier)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 12:56:16 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Federated Wireless and me
Message-ID: <CA+K5gzdoQUDOR1X1=O5GbCcNaEb_vtsWRGwiN0zGX2fdSrZZ+w@mail.gmail.com>

I founded Federated Wireless with Dr. Joseph Mitola (father of SDR and
Cognitive Radio), Dr. Charles Clancy (VP for Intelligence MITRE), and Dr.
Jeffrey Reed of Virginia Tech. The patents I am assigned and the ideas I
helped with enable Spectrum Sharing now approved by the FCC. Verizon is our
largest customer. I am a candidate for the AMSAT board of directors. If you
find someone more qualified, vote for them.

https://www.telecompetitor.com/qualified-cbrs-auction-bidders-total-271-including-numerous-rural-providers/

-- 
Bob McGwier
Founder, Federated Wireless, Inc
Founder and Technical Advisor, HawkEye 360, Inc
Adjunct Professor Virginia Tech
Former Chief Scientist:  The Ted and Karyn Hume Center for National
Security and Technology
Senior Member IEEE, Facebook: N4HYBob, ARS: N4HY

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Thu Jul 23 18:22:19 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 13:22:19 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Federated Wireless and me
In-Reply-To: <CA+K5gzdoQUDOR1X1=O5GbCcNaEb_vtsWRGwiN0zGX2fdSrZZ+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+K5gzdoQUDOR1X1=O5GbCcNaEb_vtsWRGwiN0zGX2fdSrZZ+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f1701f93-4560-87fb-491b-bd1c920aecbb@pobox.com>

On 07/23/20 12:56, Robert McGwier via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> I am a candidate for the AMSAT board of directors. If you
> find someone more qualified, vote for them.

We know, Bob. Please stop spamming the list.

Thanks,

--- Zach
N0ZGO


From zmetzing at pobox.com  Thu Jul 23 18:26:45 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 13:26:45 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Orbit visualization & antenna performance
In-Reply-To: <CAMPfQQA+k9AXkbzyyc0Zr092GF-YS11QxD=7u7PhOrAiKQdKiA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMPfQQA+k9AXkbzyyc0Zr092GF-YS11QxD=7u7PhOrAiKQdKiA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <db1425dc-5281-7e89-5994-36c90ea898eb@pobox.com>

On 07/23/20 12:03, Stephen DeVience via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> I couldn't find any tech specs other than what you have, but I did find a
> video about it:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWHn4H-BDPI
> 
> Also consider using Lilacsat-2 for your comparison. It has a circularly
> polarized UHF downlink.
> http://lilacsat.hit.edu.cn/wp/?page_id=257
> https://amsat-uk.org/satellites/comms/lilacsat-2/

Hello Stephen,

Thanks for the pointer to the video! Now to convince YouTube to 
translate the auto-transcribed subtitles to English. :-)

I thought Lilacsat had re-entered, but it looks like there are two of 
them. Thanks again!

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Thu Jul 23 19:57:49 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 12:57:49 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] ORI Transponder Design Review 30 July 2020
Message-ID: <CACvjz2Vwo3Qg5EtPQdYA5juCXT9jAv68kQCzwmkVqUniEgpT9w@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings all!

A design review workshop has been scheduled for 7am Pacific 30 July 2020
for the 6U digital multiplexing transponder from Open Research Institute.
This work is made available for free to the general public and assumes
AMSAT as the primary audience and beneficiary.

The design is the same as one in progress for AREx (AMSAT/ARISS USA). The
design review will be of direct benefit to AREx and meets their
requirements.

The design is under consideration for other missions.

If you would like to participate in the design review workshop, then please
write me at w5nyv at arrl.net for a Zoom invite.

The communications functions and circuits are the focus of this review.

System architecture document can be found here:
https://github.com/phase4space/payload-dmt/tree/master/doc/system-architecture

(Brief) Statement of Work for Phase 1 can be found here:
https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/02/Summary-Proposal-Open-Research-Institute-Phase-1-P4XT-.pdf

Thank you!
-Michelle W5NYV
(One of your AMSAT Directors)

From brennanprice at verizon.net  Thu Jul 23 20:08:27 2020
From: brennanprice at verizon.net (Brennan Price)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 20:08:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballots?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.8492.1595527015.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.8492.1595527015.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <860010431.5291175.1595534907615@mail.yahoo.com>

I have replied to Jack and another similarly situated member separately, but wanted to offer the following guidance to all members.

It would be worthwhile for members to verify their addresses of record through the AMSAT membership portal at launch.amsat.org. If that address is missing or incorrect, it is almost certain your ballot won't be delivered. If you need to correct the address, please advise me, and pending verification against the voter list, I will send a replacement at the next opportunity (which will be Saturday at the earliest, as I am away from home).

The procedure for an correcting an incorrect address is different from the procedure for deeming a ballot lost in post. As stated earlier, given domestic and international delivery standards and accounting for guard time, a correctly addressed ballot will not be considered lost in post until August 12.

73,
Brennan Price, N4QX
Secretary, Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation


------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 10:53:36 -0400
From: <kd4iz at frawg.org>
To: <amsat-bb at amsat.org>,??? <Info at amsat.org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballots?
Message-ID: <012a01d66101$0d3d48b0$27b7da10$@frawg.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;??? charset="us-ascii"

Folks,



I am an AMSAT life member and very much want to participate in the upcoming
election of directors. I have been watching the mail for a ballot envelope
from AMSAT and have yet to see one.



Were the ballot envelopes mailed out all at once or are they being sent
"batched"? When should I start to worry? Thanks much in advance for your
answer.



Jack Spitznagel, DDS, PhD

KD4IZ

Trustee for NR3DT

Museum Ship USCGC W-37 Amateur Radio Group


From jamesduffey at comcast.net  Thu Jul 23 20:27:47 2020
From: jamesduffey at comcast.net (JamesDuffey)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 14:27:47 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballots?
In-Reply-To: <860010431.5291175.1595534907615@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <860010431.5291175.1595534907615@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <48A13E17-C89A-4950-B773-6825430340C2@comcast.net>

How do we get access to the membership portal? None of the e-mail addresses I usually use are recognized. 

James Duffey KK6MC
Cedar Crest NM

> On Jul 23, 2020, at 14:14, Brennan Price via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?I have replied to Jack and another similarly situated member separately, but wanted to offer the following guidance to all members.
> 
> It would be worthwhile for members to verify their addresses of record through the AMSAT membership portal at launch.amsat.org. If that address is missing or incorrect, it is almost certain your ballot won't be delivered. If you need to correct the address, please advise me, and pending verification against the voter list, I will send a replacement at the next opportunity (which will be Saturday at the earliest, as I am away from home).
> 
> The procedure for an correcting an incorrect address is different from the procedure for deeming a ballot lost in post. As stated earlier, given domestic and international delivery standards and accounting for guard time, a correctly addressed ballot will not be considered lost in post until August 12.
> 
> 73,
> Brennan Price, N4QX
> Secretary, Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 10:53:36 -0400
> From: <kd4iz at frawg.org>
> To: <amsat-bb at amsat.org>,    <Info at amsat.org>
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballots?
> Message-ID: <012a01d66101$0d3d48b0$27b7da10$@frawg.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Folks,
> 
> 
> 
> I am an AMSAT life member and very much want to participate in the upcoming
> election of directors. I have been watching the mail for a ballot envelope
> from AMSAT and have yet to see one.
> 
> 
> 
> Were the ballot envelopes mailed out all at once or are they being sent
> "batched"? When should I start to worry? Thanks much in advance for your
> answer.
> 
> 
> 
> Jack Spitznagel, DDS, PhD
> 
> KD4IZ
> 
> Trustee for NR3DT
> 
> Museum Ship USCGC W-37 Amateur Radio Group
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Thu Jul 23 20:33:36 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 13:33:36 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] ORI Transponder Design Review 30 July 2020
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2Vwo3Qg5EtPQdYA5juCXT9jAv68kQCzwmkVqUniEgpT9w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Vwo3Qg5EtPQdYA5juCXT9jAv68kQCzwmkVqUniEgpT9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2WWaaqq5-JZ-_=Ls9roA8-6kgBetqgftcOsbcM7srZ=TQ@mail.gmail.com>

Update!

Thanks to Lou McFaddin, it will be on the AMSAT WebEx server so that more
people can attend.

Will send out links next week.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 12:57 PM Michelle Thompson <
mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:

> Greetings all!
>
> A design review workshop has been scheduled for 7am Pacific 30 July 2020
> for the 6U digital multiplexing transponder from Open Research Institute.
> This work is made available for free to the general public and assumes
> AMSAT as the primary audience and beneficiary.
>
> The design is the same as one in progress for AREx (AMSAT/ARISS USA). The
> design review will be of direct benefit to AREx and meets their
> requirements.
>
> The design is under consideration for other missions.
>
> If you would like to participate in the design review workshop, then
> please write me at w5nyv at arrl.net for a Zoom invite.
>
> The communications functions and circuits are the focus of this review.
>
> System architecture document can be found here:
>
> https://github.com/phase4space/payload-dmt/tree/master/doc/system-architecture
>
> (Brief) Statement of Work for Phase 1 can be found here:
>
> https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/02/Summary-Proposal-Open-Research-Institute-Phase-1-P4XT-.pdf
>
> Thank you!
> -Michelle W5NYV
> (One of your AMSAT Directors)
>

From michael at n4dcw.com  Thu Jul 23 20:38:50 2020
From: michael at n4dcw.com (Michael Whitman)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 16:38:50 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Address Change
Message-ID: <B6A9069E-886D-43C1-BCF3-48F08BF65FFA@n4dcw.com>

Brennan,

So sorry for this confusion, but we moved and I hadn?t changed my address on the member portal before July 1. It WAS 4000 Waterford Circle and is NOW 517 Eline Ave.

Do you mind to resend? Again, I?m so sorry about this.

73,
Michael, N4DCW

--

Michael Whitman
michael at n4dcw.com
Home Grid: EM78


From ke4al at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 23 20:39:59 2020
From: ke4al at yahoo.com (Robert Bankston)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 20:39:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballots?
In-Reply-To: <48A13E17-C89A-4950-B773-6825430340C2@comcast.net>
References: <860010431.5291175.1595534907615@mail.yahoo.com>
	<48A13E17-C89A-4950-B773-6825430340C2@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1539654332.6288511.1595536799073@mail.yahoo.com>

On May 1st, AMSAT launched an online Member Portal (launch.amsat.org) that allows members to manage their contact information.? Note, this is separate from our main website (amsat.org) and requires separate login credentials.
??
In addition to being able to update your contact information, you can renew your membership (if not already a life member), view and download issues of The AMSAT Journal (dating back to 2014), download the latest satellite frequency guide, and view/download AMSAT Symposium Proceedings (dating back to 1986).
??
To sign into your account, visit launch.amsat.org and click on the LOG IN button.? On the next screen, click on the Forgot Password link.? On the next screen, enter your email address (), the displayed code, and click on the SUBMIT button.? This will generate a reset password email.? Open the email, click on the link, and follow the instructions.
??
If you receive a message ?ERROR WARNING ? Email not found? message after clicking SUBMIT, send an email to members at amsat.org, with HELP in the subject line. In the body?of the message, all we need is your full name, your call sign, and your AMSAT member number?(if you know it).
??
Instructions on how to get signed in are also available at https://launch.amsat.org/resources/Documents/Documents/The%20New%20AMSAT%20Member%20and%20Event%20Online%20Portal.pdf
??
73,
Robert Bankston, KE4AL
Vice-President, User Services
Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)





On Thursday, July 23, 2020, 03:29:35 PM CDT, JamesDuffey via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 





How do we get access to the membership portal? None of the e-mail addresses I usually use are recognized. 

James Duffey KK6MC
Cedar Crest NM

> On Jul 23, 2020, at 14:14, Brennan Price via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?I have replied to Jack and another similarly situated member separately, but wanted to offer the following guidance to all members.
> 
> It would be worthwhile for members to verify their addresses of record through the AMSAT membership portal at launch.amsat.org. If that address is missing or incorrect, it is almost certain your ballot won't be delivered. If you need to correct the address, please advise me, and pending verification against the voter list, I will send a replacement at the next opportunity (which will be Saturday at the earliest, as I am away from home).
> 
> The procedure for an correcting an incorrect address is different from the procedure for deeming a ballot lost in post. As stated earlier, given domestic and international delivery standards and accounting for guard time, a correctly addressed ballot will not be considered lost in post until August 12.
> 
> 73,
> Brennan Price, N4QX
> Secretary, Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 10:53:36 -0400
> From: <kd4iz at frawg.org>
> To: <amsat-bb at amsat.org>,? ? <Info at amsat.org>
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballots?
> Message-ID: <012a01d66101$0d3d48b0$27b7da10$@frawg.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;? ? charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Folks,
> 
> 
> 
> I am an AMSAT life member and very much want to participate in the upcoming
> election of directors. I have been watching the mail for a ballot envelope
> from AMSAT and have yet to see one.
> 
> 
> 
> Were the ballot envelopes mailed out all at once or are they being sent
> "batched"? When should I start to worry? Thanks much in advance for your
> answer.
> 
> 
> 
> Jack Spitznagel, DDS, PhD
> 
> KD4IZ
> 
> Trustee for NR3DT
> 
> Museum Ship USCGC W-37 Amateur Radio Group
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From kk5do at arrl.net  Thu Jul 23 20:40:35 2020
From: kk5do at arrl.net (Bruce)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 15:40:35 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Gridmaster Award
References: <b431f9e7-595c-2d4b-529c-688abdfc5149.ref@arrl.net>
Message-ID: <b431f9e7-595c-2d4b-529c-688abdfc5149@arrl.net>

Congratulations to Hector, W5CBF, for earning AMSATGridmaster Award #13 
73...bruce

-- 

Bruce Paige, KK5DO
                      
AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
AMSAT Board Member 2016-2020
   
ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
           
Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT*
Also live streaming MP3 at http://www.amsatnet.com
Podcast at http://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes
               
Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News
http://www.arrl.org

AMSAT on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/amsat


From bruninga at usna.edu  Thu Jul 23 20:48:09 2020
From: bruninga at usna.edu (Robert Bruninga)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 16:48:09 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Federated Wireless, Bob - support-
In-Reply-To: <CA+K5gzdoQUDOR1X1=O5GbCcNaEb_vtsWRGwiN0zGX2fdSrZZ+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+K5gzdoQUDOR1X1=O5GbCcNaEb_vtsWRGwiN0zGX2fdSrZZ+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALdCfNLgDXUmwS7vZg+9sE2YP50p3=f=kd+YG8pPFRgcU-OOkQ@mail.gmail.com>

I support your candidacy and am impressed with your background in space and
communications and experience at some of the biggest 3 letter techincal
agencies in the Wash DC area.

Thanks for  volunteering to devote to AMSAT.
Bob

On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 1:57 PM Robert McGwier via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I founded Federated Wireless with Dr. Joseph Mitola (father of SDR and
> Cognitive Radio), Dr. Charles Clancy (VP for Intelligence MITRE), and Dr.
> Jeffrey Reed of Virginia Tech. The patents I am assigned and the ideas I
> helped with enable Spectrum Sharing now approved by the FCC. Verizon is our
> largest customer. I am a candidate for the AMSAT board of directors. If you
> find someone more qualified, vote for them.
>
>
> https://www.telecompetitor.com/qualified-cbrs-auction-bidders-total-271-including-numerous-rural-providers/
>
> --
> Bob McGwier
> Founder, Federated Wireless, Inc
> Founder and Technical Advisor, HawkEye 360, Inc
> Adjunct Professor Virginia Tech
> Former Chief Scientist:  The Ted and Karyn Hume Center for National
> Security and Technology
> Senior Member IEEE, Facebook: N4HYBob, ARS: N4HY
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From zleffke at vt.edu  Thu Jul 23 21:16:43 2020
From: zleffke at vt.edu (Leffke, Zachary)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 21:16:43 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is This AMSAT's Future?
In-Reply-To: <ef305518-4def-7398-ef89-d1f2fd495a83@pobox.com>
References: <2E07D201-8BB9-4831-85B8-C6DC745CDE4A@mac.com>
	<b72883eb-0439-a677-54a0-6ccdc59845ce@pobox.com>
	<9bda0458-ff19-4a2c-96da-125f19f2628f@yahoo.com>
	<CAKoB7OojJrBjq3WYxyqYiK6Au1EgV8B7R1tcSfLNf-3aD=5M-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<ef305518-4def-7398-ef89-d1f2fd495a83@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR05MB7037EFDC229F3151A2AA7E70DF760@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Also W6PQL:  www.w6pql.org

Excellent articles on microwave for DIYers (particularly little bits one might need, like sequencers, power meters, LED displays, 12V/24V coax relay drivers, FET switches, etc....things that may not make it into QST/QEX all the time, but you really need to complete the project!).

He also sells various things (at reasonable cost, IMHO) for those that just need whatever 'widget' to get on the air.

-Zach, KJ4QLP

-- 
Research Associate
Aerospace & Ocean Systems Lab
Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
Work Phone: 540-231-4174
Cell Phone: 540-808-6305

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2020 1:08 AM
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Is This AMSAT's Future?

On 2020-07-22 13:18, Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> I'd like to learn more about microwave ham radio.

Hello Bob,

In these parts, North Texas Microwave Society (https://www.ntms.org/) is 
a gathering of microwave enthusiasts. I'm a relative newcomer to this 
group, but there are a lot of good articles and presentations on the 
website.

W1GHZ (http://www.w1ghz.org/) has a site chock-full of various microwave 
projects, ideas, and publications.

The RTL-SDR folks have an entire category dedicated to microwave 
projects and links, but it is not all amateur radio. 
https://www.rtl-sdr.com/tag/microwave/

These sites just scratch the surface of microwave work. I'm sure there 
are many on the -bb list that could provide other pointers.

--- Zach
N0ZGO



_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From robert.machale at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 23 21:17:00 2020
From: robert.machale at yahoo.com (Robert MacHale)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 21:17:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] ORI Transponder Design Review 30 July 2020
In-Reply-To: <CACvjz2Vwo3Qg5EtPQdYA5juCXT9jAv68kQCzwmkVqUniEgpT9w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Vwo3Qg5EtPQdYA5juCXT9jAv68kQCzwmkVqUniEgpT9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2042851001.6301928.1595539020425@mail.yahoo.com>

Which existing product most closely match the completed P4XT functionality?

Are there any affordable modulators for Ham Radio ground stations?

[1] For reference:?https://work-microwave.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/V2_DVB_SDMO_1903-2.pdf

Robert MacHale
. KE6BLR Ham Radio License
.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration

Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!Political Quote:?He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Paine






On Thursday, July 23, 2020, 01:00:27 PM PDT, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 





Greetings all!

A design review workshop has been scheduled for 7am Pacific 30 July 2020
for the 6U digital multiplexing transponder from Open Research Institute.
This work is made available for free to the general public and assumes
AMSAT as the primary audience and beneficiary.

The design is the same as one in progress for AREx (AMSAT/ARISS USA). The
design review will be of direct benefit to AREx and meets their
requirements.

The design is under consideration for other missions.

If you would like to participate in the design review workshop, then please
write me at w5nyv at arrl.net for a Zoom invite.

The communications functions and circuits are the focus of this review.

System architecture document can be found here:
https://github.com/phase4space/payload-dmt/tree/master/doc/system-architecture

(Brief) Statement of Work for Phase 1 can be found here:
https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/02/Summary-Proposal-Open-Research-Institute-Phase-1-P4XT-.pdf

Thank you!
-Michelle W5NYV
(One of your AMSAT Directors)
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From zleffke at vt.edu  Thu Jul 23 21:39:36 2020
From: zleffke at vt.edu (Leffke, Zachary)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 21:39:36 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Orbit visualization & antenna performance
In-Reply-To: <9c5105dd-bd1c-3600-5269-01775862c6f6@pobox.com>
References: <9c5105dd-bd1c-3600-5269-01775862c6f6@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR05MB7037D1A47138CA59F42CAC92DF760@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Not a direct answer to your question...but for 'orbit visualization'....

System's Tool Kit (STK) from AGI:  https://www.agi.com/products/stk
There is a free license for non commercial use (e.g. Ham Radio.....).  With this you can quickly pull in TLEs for the spacecraft of interest and get very nice 3D and 2D displays to visualize orbits.  You can also do things like run pass predictions ('accesses' in STK speak), get high time resolution az, el, range, and range rate (for Doppler and link analysis math) reports (in CSV format), and they have lots of tutorials for getting up and running.  What you *can't* do with the free version is incorporate things like the Comm toolbox for direct antenna pattern visualization and link analysis within STK.  From experience during my Master's work, the combination of 'free STK', 4NEC2 (and outputting theta/phi/Gain matrix), and Python can be a pretty powerful combo.....but lacks the 'visualize' part unless you want to code that up too....

The General Mission Analysis Tool (GMAT) is the free an open source competitor to STK from NASA:  https://software.nasa.gov/software/GSC-17177-1.  I have less experience (...i mean no experience...) with this package, so not sure how easy it is to use and whether or not is has antenna modelling features, but I know a lot of folks use it (including folks on this list) for orbit modelling.

Finally, speaking of Python, the skyfield package (https://rhodesmill.org/skyfield/) is a great way to 'get rid of STK' for your own projects.  Skyfield provides a baked in SGP4 propagator to handle TLEs.  That, plus modules such as pandas, matplotlib, openGL modules (for good graphics / 3D visualization), could make for a pretty nice package that gives you full control (and is free).....but this is a double edged sword as it would all need to be coded up, which can eat precious 'project time.' (I mention it because its somewhere way down on my project list...and there might already be something out there on this).

Hope this helps!

-Other Zach, KJ4QLP (the Zach with the Hat).

-- 
Research Associate
Aerospace & Ocean Systems Lab
Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
Work Phone: 540-231-4174
Cell Phone: 540-808-6305


-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2020 12:16 PM
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Orbit visualization & antenna performance

Hello all,

In order to evaluate antenna effectiveness in the 70cm downlink band, 
I'm trying to visualize the orbits of the following satellites:

AO-27
SO-50
RS-44

I can find the perigee/apogee and output power on these, and, so far, I 
have:

AO-27	788x801 km	1W/0.5W/0.1W
SO-50	603x713 km	0.25W
RS-44	1175x1511 km	5W

On the FM birds: My observed data shows that SO-50 is difficult to hear 
while AO-27 is booming, so I hypothesize that AO-27 is transmitting with 
0.5W or 1W.

RS-44's beacon seems to be fairly weak, while CW/SSB signals on the 
transponder are quite strong.

Does anyone know where I might find more details on RS-44's construction 
such as antennas and power output for the beacon?

Thanks,

--- Zach
N0ZGO
EM12jw




_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From sjdevience at gmail.com  Thu Jul 23 21:49:35 2020
From: sjdevience at gmail.com (Stephen DeVience)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 16:49:35 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is This AMSAT's Future?
Message-ID: <CAMPfQQC4k9Gd8_A4UkcfPC9ju15eAgV3or_QC+=emhXeSShuYA@mail.gmail.com>

It's interesting that there are amateur satellite allocations in the 2.4
GHz and 5 GHz ranges as well. A number of groups are doing ham internet on
those frequencies using modified routers. This might be an option for some
kind of digital satellite, although dealing with doppler could be a
problem. I can envision an amateur version of Starlink.

-Stephen, N8URE

From ko6th.greg at gmail.com  Thu Jul 23 22:14:55 2020
From: ko6th.greg at gmail.com (Greg D)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 15:14:55 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is This AMSAT's Future?
In-Reply-To: <CAMPfQQC4k9Gd8_A4UkcfPC9ju15eAgV3or_QC+=emhXeSShuYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMPfQQC4k9Gd8_A4UkcfPC9ju15eAgV3or_QC+=emhXeSShuYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <09c77d38-40c8-e87f-2179-4c364c25a3f2@gmail.com>

Besides Doppler shift, which would definitely be a problem, there's also
the WiFi protocol itself.  It's designed for short range communication,
and some of the low level protocol timers need to be adjusted for
working in WAN applications such as AREDN.  I suspect that getting them
to work over orbital distances might be an ack retry too far.

Greg  KO6TH


Stephen DeVience via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> It's interesting that there are amateur satellite allocations in the 2.4
> GHz and 5 GHz ranges as well. A number of groups are doing ham internet on
> those frequencies using modified routers. This might be an option for some
> kind of digital satellite, although dealing with doppler could be a
> problem. I can envision an amateur version of Starlink.
>
> -Stephen, N8URE
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From w2kj at bellsouth.net  Thu Jul 23 22:15:46 2020
From: w2kj at bellsouth.net (Joseph Trombino, Jr)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 18:15:46 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] LEO sats
References: <96447168-F1C0-4A05-B095-AD8EA7CD739A.ref@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <96447168-F1C0-4A05-B095-AD8EA7CD739A@bellsouth.net>

Howdy Gang.

Getting my sat station set up again after many years.

I?m familiar with AO7 and FO29 but not any of the newer LEO sats.

What are the newer LEO?s, with linear transponders for SSB/CW only, that I should take a look at?

Many thanks for any info.

			73, Joe W2KJ

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Thu Jul 23 22:25:57 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 15:25:57 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] ORI Transponder Design Review 30 July 2020
In-Reply-To: <2042851001.6301928.1595539020425@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CACvjz2Vwo3Qg5EtPQdYA5juCXT9jAv68kQCzwmkVqUniEgpT9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<2042851001.6301928.1595539020425@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2U70sWkwADPMjS2r=fJ3rO=e51bHFm8h_61ZOJYLSRjVg@mail.gmail.com>

Good question, thank you.

We did a survey of communications systems similar to this design for the
Commodity Jurisdiction request. Most of those are substantially more
expensive than our price target. Some provided much less functionality or
had very restricted user interfaces.

Our 5GHz RF efforts focus on a design originally outlined by Mike Seguin
N1JEZ, using Skywave parts, and prototyped by Julian KF4MOT. I'm sure he'd
appreciate additional help.

There is a lot of useful feedback from recent work with the AREx team that
will be incorporated and a variety of daughter cards we use in the lab.

The goal from a product point of view is to provide more than enough
information for people to use existing SDRs and amplifiers, as well as
providing a manufactured solution.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 2:17 PM Robert MacHale <robert.machale at yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Which existing product most closely match the completed P4XT functionality?
>
> Are there any affordable modulators for Ham Radio ground stations?
>
> [1] For reference:
> https://work-microwave.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/V2_DVB_SDMO_1903-2.pdf
>
> Robert MacHale
> . KE6BLR Ham Radio License
> . http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> . http://www.spaceCommunicator.club
> . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space
> Exploration
>
> Silly Joke: What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi
> Cliff!Political Quote: He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas
> Paine
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, July 23, 2020, 01:00:27 PM PDT, Michelle Thompson via
> AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Greetings all!
>
> A design review workshop has been scheduled for 7am Pacific 30 July 2020
> for the 6U digital multiplexing transponder from Open Research Institute.
> This work is made available for free to the general public and assumes
> AMSAT as the primary audience and beneficiary.
>
> The design is the same as one in progress for AREx (AMSAT/ARISS USA). The
> design review will be of direct benefit to AREx and meets their
> requirements.
>
> The design is under consideration for other missions.
>
> If you would like to participate in the design review workshop, then please
> write me at w5nyv at arrl.net for a Zoom invite.
>
> The communications functions and circuits are the focus of this review.
>
> System architecture document can be found here:
>
> https://github.com/phase4space/payload-dmt/tree/master/doc/system-architecture
>
> (Brief) Statement of Work for Phase 1 can be found here:
>
> https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/02/Summary-Proposal-Open-Research-Institute-Phase-1-P4XT-.pdf
>
> Thank you!
> -Michelle W5NYV
> (One of your AMSAT Directors)
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From af5cc2 at gmail.com  Thu Jul 23 23:20:49 2020
From: af5cc2 at gmail.com (John Geiger)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 18:20:49 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] LEO sats
In-Reply-To: <96447168-F1C0-4A05-B095-AD8EA7CD739A@bellsouth.net>
References: <96447168-F1C0-4A05-B095-AD8EA7CD739A.ref@bellsouth.net>
	<96447168-F1C0-4A05-B095-AD8EA7CD739A@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <CAHC1P28vZLS4cEkoTzkEyeR2YgxddhMvarVidCkKzPFWepGPxQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Joe,

Welcome back to the satellite world!  We have quite a few SSB/CW LEO sats
right now: XW-2A, XW-2B, XW-2C, XW-2D, XW-2F, which all had very good
downlink signals. In addition, there are CAS-4A and CAS-4B, EO-88 and AO73,
all of which do Mode B, and RS-44 which is in Mode J.

Hope to see you on some of them soon!


73 John AF5CC

On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 6:15 PM Joseph Trombino, Jr via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Howdy Gang.
>
> Getting my sat station set up again after many years.
>
> I?m familiar with AO7 and FO29 but not any of the newer LEO sats.
>
> What are the newer LEO?s, with linear transponders for SSB/CW only, that I
> should take a look at?
>
> Many thanks for any info.
>
>                         73, Joe W2KJ
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From k1rdd73 at gmail.com  Thu Jul 23 22:36:15 2020
From: k1rdd73 at gmail.com (Doug Daniels)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 18:36:15 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Brand new to satellite
Message-ID: <CAEwXZzviUOyfevVmoXtGXUDOo+C_dy5Vx2MGDZR_4ePNWX-DDQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,
I am brand new to satellite, and actually made my first QSO this morning on
AO-91. I found this email group in the AMSAT Getting Started With Amateur
Satellites 2020 which I purchased on a recommendation.

Is this the informational email group? (I also signed up for the New
England mailing list, but it looks like there hasn't been any activity
since 2013) I am of course looking for all the information I can find, but
this group seems to be more of a political discussion. Please point me in
the right direction.

Thanks!

-- 

--... ...--
Doug K1RDD

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Thu Jul 23 23:55:39 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 19:55:39 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Orbit visualization & antenna performance
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR05MB7037D1A47138CA59F42CAC92DF760@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <9c5105dd-bd1c-3600-5269-01775862c6f6@pobox.com>
	<MN2PR05MB7037D1A47138CA59F42CAC92DF760@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c_Rm44Ka--ce+V0dpeMkD4=b5QUm3SwzoC7bzSFqpk_Zw@mail.gmail.com>

I wrote some code a while back in a google code project, that took
TLEs and plotted the orbits in KML for visualization in Google Earth.
It's all in Python, so really easy to work with from a developer
standpoint and it also gives you access to some really nice geospatial
libraries.  I believe some others took the code and created githubs or
other projects off of it, so it's still out there!  I never created a
homesite for it, because it literally took me one evening.  I had
plotted the entirety of the ARISSat-1 orbit, using the various TLEs
published back then (and received legal permission to re-publish the
TLEs).  You could use the code to do what you want... Royalty free and
100% OSS:

https://www.gearthblog.com/blog/archives/2013/04/the_google_earth_satellite_tracker.html

And another hams github clone of the project...

https://github.com/u0m3/ge-satellite-tracker

If you'd like to build off of it at all or need any help, reach out to
me anytime.  If you PM me, I can send you my cell so you can
coordinate directly, otherwise the code is reasonably straightforward.

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO

On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 5:45 PM Leffke, Zachary via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Not a direct answer to your question...but for 'orbit visualization'....
>
> System's Tool Kit (STK) from AGI:  https://www.agi.com/products/stk
> There is a free license for non commercial use (e.g. Ham Radio.....).  With this you can quickly pull in TLEs for the spacecraft of interest and get very nice 3D and 2D displays to visualize orbits.  You can also do things like run pass predictions ('accesses' in STK speak), get high time resolution az, el, range, and range rate (for Doppler and link analysis math) reports (in CSV format), and they have lots of tutorials for getting up and running.  What you *can't* do with the free version is incorporate things like the Comm toolbox for direct antenna pattern visualization and link analysis within STK.  From experience during my Master's work, the combination of 'free STK', 4NEC2 (and outputting theta/phi/Gain matrix), and Python can be a pretty powerful combo.....but lacks the 'visualize' part unless you want to code that up too....
>
> The General Mission Analysis Tool (GMAT) is the free an open source competitor to STK from NASA:  https://software.nasa.gov/software/GSC-17177-1.  I have less experience (...i mean no experience...) with this package, so not sure how easy it is to use and whether or not is has antenna modelling features, but I know a lot of folks use it (including folks on this list) for orbit modelling.
>
> Finally, speaking of Python, the skyfield package (https://rhodesmill.org/skyfield/) is a great way to 'get rid of STK' for your own projects.  Skyfield provides a baked in SGP4 propagator to handle TLEs.  That, plus modules such as pandas, matplotlib, openGL modules (for good graphics / 3D visualization), could make for a pretty nice package that gives you full control (and is free).....but this is a double edged sword as it would all need to be coded up, which can eat precious 'project time.' (I mention it because its somewhere way down on my project list...and there might already be something out there on this).
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> -Other Zach, KJ4QLP (the Zach with the Hat).
>
> --
> Research Associate
> Aerospace & Ocean Systems Lab
> Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
> Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
> Work Phone: 540-231-4174
> Cell Phone: 540-808-6305
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2020 12:16 PM
> To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Orbit visualization & antenna performance
>
> Hello all,
>
> In order to evaluate antenna effectiveness in the 70cm downlink band,
> I'm trying to visualize the orbits of the following satellites:
>
> AO-27
> SO-50
> RS-44
>
> I can find the perigee/apogee and output power on these, and, so far, I
> have:
>
> AO-27   788x801 km      1W/0.5W/0.1W
> SO-50   603x713 km      0.25W
> RS-44   1175x1511 km    5W
>
> On the FM birds: My observed data shows that SO-50 is difficult to hear
> while AO-27 is booming, so I hypothesize that AO-27 is transmitting with
> 0.5W or 1W.
>
> RS-44's beacon seems to be fairly weak, while CW/SSB signals on the
> transponder are quite strong.
>
> Does anyone know where I might find more details on RS-44's construction
> such as antennas and power output for the beacon?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --- Zach
> N0ZGO
> EM12jw
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From ke4al at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 24 00:00:15 2020
From: ke4al at yahoo.com (Robert Bankston)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 00:00:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is This AMSAT's Future?
In-Reply-To: <09c77d38-40c8-e87f-2179-4c364c25a3f2@gmail.com>
References: <CAMPfQQC4k9Gd8_A4UkcfPC9ju15eAgV3or_QC+=emhXeSShuYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<09c77d38-40c8-e87f-2179-4c364c25a3f2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43274685.6382099.1595548815092@mail.yahoo.com>

I started working on a linked, peer-to-peer, voice communications network for amateur satellite service, called amsalLink.? Unfortunately, the closure of the AMSAT office due to COVID-19 has doubled my volunteer workload and forced me to put the project on hold..
??
 There are throughput limitations in satellite links for data communication. TCP senders cannot exceed the rate at which the receiver can acknowledge receipt of packets, where satellite latency effectively caps standard?TCP throughput per session. TCP Spoofing, which imitates a terrestrial TCP session by?sending false TCP packet acknowledgements, is one possible solution. Since my focus was to develop a voice chat, I have chosen to use UDP to overcome acknowledgement limitations.
??
My amsatLink project is described in the March/April 2020 issue of The AMSAT Journal and https://ke4al.github.io/amsatLink/
??
Robert, KE4AL


On Thursday, July 23, 2020, 05:16:36 PM CDT, Greg D via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 


Besides Doppler shift, which would definitely be a problem, there's also
the WiFi protocol itself.? It's designed for short range communication,
and some of the low level protocol timers need to be adjusted for
working in WAN applications such as AREDN.? I suspect that getting them
to work over orbital distances might be an ack retry too far.

Greg? KO6TH


Stephen DeVience via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> It's interesting that there are amateur satellite allocations in the 2.4
> GHz and 5 GHz ranges as well. A number of groups are doing ham internet on
> those frequencies using modified routers. This might be an option for some
> kind of digital satellite, although dealing with doppler could be a
> problem. I can envision an amateur version of Starlink.
>
> -Stephen, N8URE
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From skristof at etczone.com  Fri Jul 24 00:05:10 2020
From: skristof at etczone.com (Steve Kristoff)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 20:05:10 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Brand new to satellite
In-Reply-To: <CAEwXZzviUOyfevVmoXtGXUDOo+C_dy5Vx2MGDZR_4ePNWX-DDQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEwXZzviUOyfevVmoXtGXUDOo+C_dy5Vx2MGDZR_4ePNWX-DDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5b30b15c74408959c510a7c853dd1e20@etczone.com>


Hi, Doug. Welcome to the satellites and congratulations on your first satellite QSO!?

This is the right email group for any questions you have. It's just a little weird right now because there is a contested board of directors election going on.

So ask those questions!!

If you have already located these sources of info, my apologies for telling you stuff you may already know, but I generally check out these three webpages for info:

https://www.amsat.org/two-way-satellites/

https://www.amsat.org/status/

https://www.amsat.org/track/index.php


Other folks on this list will have their favorite sources of info that they will share also. There are lots of folks on this list with much greater technical know-how than I and they will be happy to answer your questions (I'm happy to answer them, too, if I can!).

Hope to catch you on a bird very soon!

Steve AI9IN
?Grid EM79ji
Oldenburg IN
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Daniels via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
Date: 07/23/20 19:26
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Brand new to satellite

Hello all,
I am brand new to satellite, and actually made my first QSO this morning on
AO-91. I found this email group in the AMSAT Getting Started With Amateur
Satellites 2020 which I purchased on a recommendation.

Is this the informational email group? (I also signed up for the New
England mailing list, but it looks like there hasn't been any activity
since 2013) I am of course looking for all the information I can find, but
this group seems to be more of a political discussion. Please point me in
the right direction.

Thanks!

--

--... ...--
Doug K1RDD
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From kb2ysi at gmail.com  Fri Jul 24 00:45:47 2020
From: kb2ysi at gmail.com (Don KB2YSI)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 20:45:47 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Brand new to satellite
In-Reply-To: <5b30b15c74408959c510a7c853dd1e20@etczone.com>
References: <CAEwXZzviUOyfevVmoXtGXUDOo+C_dy5Vx2MGDZR_4ePNWX-DDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5b30b15c74408959c510a7c853dd1e20@etczone.com>
Message-ID: <CAAJiE8OYR2SX=una3AeWQ1zDfHmmNZsnHVhcMmHJjPs+qEFcmw@mail.gmail.com>

A few other places to get information, Twitter and there is a newish
community Discord server at https://discord.gg/Yv6sHz5, and an unused IRC
channel on #freenode (sadly I have not been joining since March).

On Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 20:33 Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

>
> Hi, Doug. Welcome to the satellites and congratulations on your first
> satellite QSO!
>
> This is the right email group for any questions you have. It's just a
> little weird right now because there is a contested board of directors
> election going on.
>
> So ask those questions!!
>
> If you have already located these sources of info, my apologies for
> telling you stuff you may already know, but I generally check out these
> three webpages for info:
>
> https://www.amsat.org/two-way-satellites/
>
> https://www.amsat.org/status/
>
> https://www.amsat.org/track/index.php
>
>
> Other folks on this list will have their favorite sources of info that
> they will share also. There are lots of folks on this list with much
> greater technical know-how than I and they will be happy to answer your
> questions (I'm happy to answer them, too, if I can!).
>
> Hope to catch you on a bird very soon!
>
> Steve AI9IN
>  Grid EM79ji
> Oldenburg IN
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Doug Daniels via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb at amsat.org)
> Date: 07/23/20 19:26
> To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Brand new to satellite
>
> Hello all,
> I am brand new to satellite, and actually made my first QSO this morning on
> AO-91. I found this email group in the AMSAT Getting Started With Amateur
> Satellites 2020 which I purchased on a recommendation.
>
> Is this the informational email group? (I also signed up for the New
> England mailing list, but it looks like there hasn't been any activity
> since 2013) I am of course looking for all the information I can find, but
> this group seems to be more of a political discussion. Please point me in
> the right direction.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
>
> --... ...--
> Doug K1RDD
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From dougfaunt at gmail.com  Fri Jul 24 01:55:54 2020
From: dougfaunt at gmail.com (Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-717-1197)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 18:55:54 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballots?
Message-ID: <CAHirYAg=iABHwHhH+qgvLyP1q-ZpBsnSJ5KOdYeifHht8iPgAg@mail.gmail.com>

It's pretty sad we can't vote online.  I had to use up one of my stock
of stamps- how 20th century, like checks.
73, doug

From w2kj at bellsouth.net  Fri Jul 24 02:12:22 2020
From: w2kj at bellsouth.net (Joseph Trombino, Jr)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 22:12:22 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] LEO Sats
References: <5AE07952-D2B6-49EF-BEE7-5B148DD02101.ref@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <5AE07952-D2B6-49EF-BEE7-5B148DD02101@bellsouth.net>

Many thanks to all of those folks who took the time to provide LEO sat info to me.

Hope to be on the birds soon.

Again, many thanks.

			73, Joe W2KJ

From kb2ysi at gmail.com  Fri Jul 24 02:30:57 2020
From: kb2ysi at gmail.com (Don KB2YSI)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 22:30:57 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] LEO sats
In-Reply-To: <CAHC1P28vZLS4cEkoTzkEyeR2YgxddhMvarVidCkKzPFWepGPxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <96447168-F1C0-4A05-B095-AD8EA7CD739A.ref@bellsouth.net>
	<96447168-F1C0-4A05-B095-AD8EA7CD739A@bellsouth.net>
	<CAHC1P28vZLS4cEkoTzkEyeR2YgxddhMvarVidCkKzPFWepGPxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAJiE8MoPQAU1E5XR2XXDZy7uTvjkxSXQsq4trK=kySyJT1H2g@mail.gmail.com>

XW-2C & 2D can be flaky, as a warning of sorts.

On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 7:49 PM John Geiger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Hi Joe,
>
> Welcome back to the satellite world!  We have quite a few SSB/CW LEO sats
> right now: XW-2A, XW-2B, XW-2C, XW-2D, XW-2F, which all had very good
> downlink signals. In addition, there are CAS-4A and CAS-4B, EO-88 and AO73,
> all of which do Mode B, and RS-44 which is in Mode J.
>
> Hope to see you on some of them soon!
>
>
> 73 John AF5CC
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 6:15 PM Joseph Trombino, Jr via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > Howdy Gang.
> >
> > Getting my sat station set up again after many years.
> >
> > I?m familiar with AO7 and FO29 but not any of the newer LEO sats.
> >
> > What are the newer LEO?s, with linear transponders for SSB/CW only, that
> I
> > should take a look at?
> >
> > Many thanks for any info.
> >
> >                         73, Joe W2KJ
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
73,
Don KB2YSI
https://www.hamqth.com/kb2ysi

From ka3hdo at gmail.com  Fri Jul 24 10:54:44 2020
From: ka3hdo at gmail.com (ka3hdo at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 06:54:44 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] ORI Transponder Design Review 30 July 2020
In-Reply-To: <2042851001.6301928.1595539020425@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CACvjz2Vwo3Qg5EtPQdYA5juCXT9jAv68kQCzwmkVqUniEgpT9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<2042851001.6301928.1595539020425@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <125c301d661a8$d8058a10$88109e30$@gmail.com>

Michelle,

I am kind of surprised that AMSAT-BB is the first time I have heard about a design review that could impact the AREx design for the Lunar Gateway SDR.  As I stated in the AREx meetings, I want to ensure we have a host of independent space experts that are pre-selected and vetted for all our design reviews.  This has not been done yet.  And it will be an essential element for AREx to move forward on our Lunar Gateway payload with the space agencies.

This design review has not been communicated to the AREx team.  We absolutely need to have open and full team communication on all design developments to ensure AREx mission success.  Not communication to AMSAT-BB, where only a small segment of the AREx team is a part of.  

As the acting Program Manager for the AREx Lunar Gateway initiative, I would appreciate you letting us know ahead of time of any planning for design reviews as well as any planned meetings that can affect the AREx system design.  If I remember correctly, I was expecting a plan from each team on their efforts to evolve their systems over the next several months.  This is a critical first step.  We also need to get a handle on who all is on this team so that we can ensure that there is open, effective and impactful communication across the team and the subsystems.  

I would appreciate your attention on this matter. 

Thanks,

Frank
--------------------------------------------
Frank H. Bauer, KA3HDO
ISS Ham Radio Program Manager & PI
ARISS International Chair
AMSAT V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs


-----Original Message-----
From: Robert MacHale <robert.machale at yahoo.com> 
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2020 5:17 PM
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>; Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] ORI Transponder Design Review 30 July 2020

Which existing product most closely match the completed P4XT functionality?

Are there any affordable modulators for Ham Radio ground stations?

[1] For reference: https://work-microwave.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/V2_DVB_SDMO_1903-2.pdf

Robert MacHale
. KE6BLR Ham Radio License
. http://www.aprsat.com/predict
. http://www.spaceCommunicator.club
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration

Silly Joke: What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!Political Quote: He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Paine






On Thursday, July 23, 2020, 01:00:27 PM PDT, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 





Greetings all!

A design review workshop has been scheduled for 7am Pacific 30 July 2020 for the 6U digital multiplexing transponder from Open Research Institute.
This work is made available for free to the general public and assumes AMSAT as the primary audience and beneficiary.

The design is the same as one in progress for AREx (AMSAT/ARISS USA). The design review will be of direct benefit to AREx and meets their requirements.

The design is under consideration for other missions.

If you would like to participate in the design review workshop, then please write me at w5nyv at arrl.net for a Zoom invite.

The communications functions and circuits are the focus of this review.

System architecture document can be found here:
https://github.com/phase4space/payload-dmt/tree/master/doc/system-architecture

(Brief) Statement of Work for Phase 1 can be found here:
https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/02/Summary-Proposal-Open-Research-Institute-Phase-1-P4XT-.pdf

Thank you!
-Michelle W5NYV
(One of your AMSAT Directors)
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb



From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Fri Jul 24 14:12:20 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 07:12:20 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] ORI Transponder Design Review 30 July 2020
In-Reply-To: <125c301d661a8$d8058a10$88109e30$@gmail.com>
References: <CACvjz2Vwo3Qg5EtPQdYA5juCXT9jAv68kQCzwmkVqUniEgpT9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<2042851001.6301928.1595539020425@mail.yahoo.com>
	<125c301d661a8$d8058a10$88109e30$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2UrvUmUNuX1sRSZCYggH17SYvJpbqLcP5VywvpLF97nzQ@mail.gmail.com>

I apologize for the misunderstanding. Entirely my fault.

There was very strong support for the architecture at the ARISS hardware
summit last month. This workshop review is intended to honor that approval
and support, and pay it back with interest, not to upset it in any way.

Reviewing the systems architecture (to be ready for a PDR originally
scheduled for August) was discussed in a recent call, along with
recruitment from wider communities. This seemed to get a green light.

A review was discussed in the systems engineering splinter group with
strong support.

I have complied with a request to get the right communications support (GTM
vs Zoom), which is greatly appreciated feedback.

Having a workshop review was not perceived as controversial during that
conversation, or I would have not proceeded.

With schedule and staffing identified at the highest risk level (severely
high!) I?m very motivated to reduce that risk for you, however I can. The
more people that review everything we have for architecture, as soon as
possible, the better.

The impact is intended to be more and better choices for widest possible
use, as soon as possible, no strings attached. The only people restricted
are those that implement any provisional design. All know it is subject to
change and high risk.

What things would you like me to do in order to satisfy all your concerns?

-mdt







On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 03:54 <ka3hdo at gmail.com> wrote:

> Michelle,
>
> I am kind of surprised that AMSAT-BB is the first time I have heard about
> a design review that could impact the AREx design for the Lunar Gateway
> SDR.  As I stated in the AREx meetings, I want to ensure we have a host of
> independent space experts that are pre-selected and vetted for all our
> design reviews.  This has not been done yet.  And it will be an essential
> element for AREx to move forward on our Lunar Gateway payload with the
> space agencies.
>
> This design review has not been communicated to the AREx team.  We
> absolutely need to have open and full team communication on all design
> developments to ensure AREx mission success.  Not communication to
> AMSAT-BB, where only a small segment of the AREx team is a part of.
>
> As the acting Program Manager for the AREx Lunar Gateway initiative, I
> would appreciate you letting us know ahead of time of any planning for
> design reviews as well as any planned meetings that can affect the AREx
> system design.  If I remember correctly, I was expecting a plan from each
> team on their efforts to evolve their systems over the next several
> months.  This is a critical first step.  We also need to get a handle on
> who all is on this team so that we can ensure that there is open, effective
> and impactful communication across the team and the subsystems.
>
> I would appreciate your attention on this matter.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Frank
> --------------------------------------------
> Frank H. Bauer, KA3HDO
> ISS Ham Radio Program Manager & PI
> ARISS International Chair
> AMSAT V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert MacHale <robert.machale at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2020 5:17 PM
> To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>; Michelle Thompson <
> mountain.michelle at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] ORI Transponder Design Review 30 July 2020
>
> Which existing product most closely match the completed P4XT functionality?
>
> Are there any affordable modulators for Ham Radio ground stations?
>
> [1] For reference:
> https://work-microwave.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/V2_DVB_SDMO_1903-2.pdf
>
> Robert MacHale
> . KE6BLR Ham Radio License
> . http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> . http://www.spaceCommunicator.club
> . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space
> Exploration
>
> Silly Joke: What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi
> Cliff!Political Quote: He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas
> Paine
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, July 23, 2020, 01:00:27 PM PDT, Michelle Thompson via
> AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Greetings all!
>
> A design review workshop has been scheduled for 7am Pacific 30 July 2020
> for the 6U digital multiplexing transponder from Open Research Institute.
> This work is made available for free to the general public and assumes
> AMSAT as the primary audience and beneficiary.
>
> The design is the same as one in progress for AREx (AMSAT/ARISS USA). The
> design review will be of direct benefit to AREx and meets their
> requirements.
>
> The design is under consideration for other missions.
>
> If you would like to participate in the design review workshop, then
> please write me at w5nyv at arrl.net for a Zoom invite.
>
> The communications functions and circuits are the focus of this review.
>
> System architecture document can be found here:
>
> https://github.com/phase4space/payload-dmt/tree/master/doc/system-architecture
>
> (Brief) Statement of Work for Phase 1 can be found here:
>
> https://openresearch.institute/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/02/Summary-Proposal-Open-Research-Institute-Phase-1-P4XT-.pdf
>
> Thank you!
> -Michelle W5NYV
> (One of your AMSAT Directors)
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to
> all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> --
-Michelle W5NYV

"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."

From clintbradford at mac.com  Fri Jul 24 17:58:35 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 10:58:35 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO junk?
Message-ID: <33243A3E-7AD5-4A10-85CA-83A92D9AD60F@mac.com>

While looking for the comet from Southern California last night (too low to 
see through city lights), I saw something right above me ? moving ?

Way too slow to be what I would call ?low-earth? stuff ?

Which meant is was much higher? Is there ?HEO junk? out there?

Puzzled,

Clint K6LCS


From n0jy at amsat.org  Fri Jul 24 18:11:09 2020
From: n0jy at amsat.org (Jerry Buxton)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 13:11:09 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO junk?
In-Reply-To: <33243A3E-7AD5-4A10-85CA-83A92D9AD60F@mac.com>
References: <33243A3E-7AD5-4A10-85CA-83A92D9AD60F@mac.com>
Message-ID: <c5a54fe8-2de6-59e7-647f-c708169ab88e@amsat.org>

For sure lots of junk out there, and likely some in "HEO" but more
likely really GTO that's left over from getting things up there.
Leftover junk takes a pass at the Foxes frequently, which makes me
wonder who the space junk really is when people claim that's what our
CubeSats are.? Don't mention -Cliff I still haven't finished a failure
analysis (mostly because Spaceflight and SpaceX aren't talking).

So was it moving in a generally north-south way, or more of an east-west
lower latitude way?
And I'll take the opportunity to plug my favorite Android app Heavens
Above Pro which would tell us right at the time but then you lose the
fun of speculating and bonding over satellite stuff (before you give up
and look it up).??? hihi

Jerry Buxton, N?JY

On 7/24/2020 12:58, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> While looking for the comet from Southern California last night (too low to 
> see through city lights), I saw something right above me ? moving ?
>
> Way too slow to be what I would call ?low-earth? stuff ?
>
> Which meant is was much higher? Is there ?HEO junk? out there?


From vlfiscus at mcn.net  Fri Jul 24 19:12:15 2020
From: vlfiscus at mcn.net (Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 13:12:15 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO junk?
In-Reply-To: <33243A3E-7AD5-4A10-85CA-83A92D9AD60F@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20200724130811.02150660@pop.earthlink.net>

At 10:58 AM 7/24/2020 -0700, clintbradford at mac.com wrote:
>While looking for the comet from Southern California last night (too low 
>to see through city lights), I saw something right above me 
 moving 
 Way 
>too slow to be wh what I would call ???low-earth??? stuff 
 Which meant 
>iss was much higher? Is there ???HEO junk??? out there? Puzzled, Clint K6LCS


It's always fun to watch the skies just after sunset or right
before sunrise while it's still dark.  Lots of things in orbit
can be seen while they are still in sunlight.

Don't know if you can see a HEO with the naked eye unless it's
fairly large.



From jfitzgerald at alum.wpi.edu  Fri Jul 24 19:38:28 2020
From: jfitzgerald at alum.wpi.edu (Joseph B. Fitzgerald)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 19:38:28 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO junk?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20200724130811.02150660@pop.earthlink.net>
References: <33243A3E-7AD5-4A10-85CA-83A92D9AD60F@mac.com>,
	<5.2.1.1.2.20200724130811.02150660@pop.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <DM5PR22MB0825F31A886148E6BE0706F487770@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Not all comet watchers enjoy seeing man made objects apparently.  This Facebook post has generated a lot of press.

https://www.facebook.com/elcielodecanarias.es/photos/a.224658390885198/4415045628513099

de KM1P

From aj9n at aol.com  Fri Jul 24 20:09:29 2020
From: aj9n at aol.com (aj9n at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 20:09:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-07-24 20:00
	UTC
References: <307087834.4774520.1595621369552.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <307087834.4774520.1595621369552@mail.yahoo.com>


Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-07-24 20:00 UTC

?

Quick list of scheduled contacts and events:

?

American School of Rio de Janeiro, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, Multi-point telebridge via ON4ISS 

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be OR4ISS 

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR 

Contact is go for: Thu 2020-07-30 16:41:42 UTC 78 deg 

?

Watch for live simulcast starting about 10 minutes before AOS at: https://youtu.be/MSyfzEHYwrE??(***)

?

?

########################################################################################################################################

A multi-point telebridge contact means that each student will be on the telebridge from their own home.

*************************************************

?

ARISS is very aware of the impact that COVID-19 is having on schools and the public in general.? As such, we may have last minute cancellations or postponements of school contacts.? As always, I will try to provide everyone with near-real-time updates.? 

?

The following schools have now been postponed or cancelled due to COVID-19:? 

?

Postponed:

No new schools

?

Cancelled:

No new schools

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

?

Watch for future COVID-19 related announcements here also.

?

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

?

Note, all times are approximate. ?It is recommended that you do your own 

orbital prediction?or start listening about 10 minutes before the listed 

time. 

All dates and times listed follow International Standard ISO 8601 date and 

time format YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS

?

The complete schedule page has been updated as of?2020-07-24 20:00 UTC. (***)

Here you will find a listing of all scheduled?school contacts, and 

questions, other ISS related websites, IRLP and Echolink websites, and 

instructions for any contact that may be streamed live.

?

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf 

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.txt 

?

?

The successful school list has been updated as of 2020-07-20 16:30 UTC.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/Successful_ARISS_schools.rtf 

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

?

Message to US Educators

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States) 

?

The Proposal Window of February 1, 2020 to March 31, 2020 has now closed.

?

For future proposal information and more details such as expectations, proposal guidelines and proposal form, and dates and times of Information Webinars, go to www.ariss.org.

?

Please direct any questions to?ariss.us.education at gmail.com.

?

About ARISS:

?

Amateur Radio on the International Space Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radio societies and the space agencies that support the International Space Station (ISS).? In the United States, sponsors are the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio Relay League (ARRL), the ISS National Lab and National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEAM) topics by organizing scheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS and students in classrooms or public forms. Before and during these radio contacts, students, educators, parents, and communities learn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. For more information, see www.ariss.org.

?

********************************************************************************

ARISS Contact Applications (Europe, Africa and the Middle East)

?

Schools and Youth organizations in Europe, Africa and the Middle East interested in setting up an ARISS radio contact with an astronaut on board the International Space Station are invited to submit an application from September to October and from February to April.

Please refer to details and the application form at www.ariss-eu.org/school-contacts.? Applications should be addressed by email to:? school.selection.manager at ariss-eu.org

?

ARISS Contact Applications (Canada, Central and South America, Asia and Australia and Russia)

?

Organizations outside the United States can apply for an ARISS contact by filling out an application.? Please direct questions to the appropriate regional representative listed below. If your country is not specifically listed, send your questions to the nearest ARISS Region listed. If you are unsure which address to use, please send your question to the ARISS-Canada representative; they will forward your question to the appropriate coordinator.

?

For the application, go to:? https://www.ariss.org/ariss-application.html.

ARISS-Canada and the Americas, except USA: Steve McFarlane, VE3TBD email to: ve3tbd at gmail.com

ARISS-Japan, Asia, Pacific and Australia: Satoshi Yasuda, 7M3TJZ email to: ariss at iaru-r3.org, Japan Amateur Radio League (JARL) https://www.jarl.org/

ARISS-Russia: Soyuz Radioljubitelei Rossii (SRR) https://srr.ru/

?

?

******************************************************************************

ARISS is always glad to receive listener reports for the above contacts.? ARISS thanks everyone in advance for their assistance.? Feel free to send your reports to aj9n at amsat.org or aj9n at aol.com.

?

Listen for the ISS on the downlink of 145.8? MHz.

?

*******************************************************************************

?

All ARISS contacts are made via the Kenwood radio unless otherwise noted.

?

*******************************************************************************


Several of you have sent me emails asking about the RAC ARISS website and 
not being able to get in. ?That has now been changed to https://www.ariss.org/

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

****************************************************************************

Looking for something new to do?? How about receiving DATV from the ISS?? Please note that the HamTV system has been brought back to earth for troubleshooting.? Please monitor ARISS-EU or ARISS-ON for the very latest news on the troubleshooting efforts.? 

?

If interested, then please go to the ARISS-EU website for complete details.? Look for the buttons indicating Ham Video.???????????? 

?

http://www.ariss-eu.org/

?

If you need some assistance, ARISS mentor Kerry N6IZW, might be able to provide some insight.? Contact Kerry at kbanke at sbcglobal.net

?

?

The HamTV webpage:? https://www.amsat-on.be/hamtv-summary/

?

?

****************************************************************************
ARISS congratulations the following mentors who have now mentored over 100 schools: 

?

Francesco IK?WGF with 140

Satoshi 7M3TJZ with 138 

Sergey RV3DR with 134 

Gaston ON4WF with 123

?

****************************************************************************

The webpages listed below were all reviewed for accuracy. Out of date 

webpages were removed, and new ones have been added.? If there are additional 

ARISS websites I need to know about, please let me know.

?

?

?

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school events is 1392.

Each school counts as 1 event.?????????????????????????????????? 

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school contacts is 1325. 

Each contact may have multiple schools sharing the same time slot.

Total number of ARISS supported terrestrial contacts is 48. 

?

A complete year by year breakdown of the contacts may be found in the 

file.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf

?

Please feel free to contact me if more detailed statistics are needed.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



The following US states and entities have never had an ARISS contact:
South Dakota, Wyoming, American?Samoa, Guam, Northern Marianas Islands, and the Virgin Islands.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

?

QSL information may be found at:

https://www.ariss.org/qsl-cards.html

?

ISS callsigns: DP?ISS, IR?ISS, NA1SS, OR4ISS, RS?ISS

?

****************************************************************************



Frequency chart for packet, voice, and crossband repeater modes showing 

Doppler correction as of 2005-07-29 04:00 UTC

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/ISS_frequencies_and_Doppler_correction.rtf



Check out the Zoho reports of the ARISS contacts

?

https://reports.zoho.com/ZDBDataSheetView.cc?DBID=412218000000020415

****************************************************************************

?

Exp. 62 now on orbit 

Chris Cassidy KF5KDR

Anatoli Ivanishin

Ivan Vagner

?

SpaceX-Demo2 now on orbit 

Bob Behnken KE5GGX

Doug Hurley

?

****************************************************************************

73,

Charlie?Sufana AJ9N
One of the ARISS operation team mentors

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?



From vlfiscus at mcn.net  Fri Jul 24 21:25:12 2020
From: vlfiscus at mcn.net (Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 15:25:12 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO junk?
References: <5.2.1.1.2.20200724130811.02150660@pop.earthlink.net>
	<33243A3E-7AD5-4A10-85CA-83A92D9AD60F@mac.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20200724130811.02150660@pop.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20200724152003.021302b8@pop.earthlink.net>

At 07:38 PM 7/24/2020 +0000, jfitzgerald at alum.wpi.edu wrote:
>Not all comet watchers enjoy seeing man made objects apparently.  This 
>Facebook post has generated a lot of press. 
>https://www.facebook.com/elcielodecanarias.es/photos/a.224658390885198/4415045628513099 
>de KM1P


I don't do facebook, or twitter or care to.

A satellite qso is much more fun, and educational.


From bruce at perens.com  Fri Jul 24 20:32:17 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 13:32:17 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO junk?
In-Reply-To: <33243A3E-7AD5-4A10-85CA-83A92D9AD60F@mac.com>
References: <33243A3E-7AD5-4A10-85CA-83A92D9AD60F@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOuW1NHiqq6ieg64dQ+5VcTcOomz-zYnv3kx6M+To0cD0Q@mail.gmail.com>

There is an android program called Orbitrack which can help you identify
satellites that you observe naked-eye or in your telescope.

There are a great many of them, and always more, in all sorts of orbits.

From gp_ab5r at outlook.com  Fri Jul 24 20:18:53 2020
From: gp_ab5r at outlook.com (Gerald Payton)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 20:18:53 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Radio Information, Please
Message-ID: <SN6PR11MB275211E17BE1F4E056702644D0770@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

I just renewed membership and request information about compatibility on my radio ( IC-2730A ) for working the FM birds.

I was hoping to use my IC-2730A along with HRD but cannot find a CAT cable for compatibility.  HRD lists the 2730 as an available radio but no joy connecting.

I am hoping to connect with someone that IS or HAS used this radio with or without HRD for help.

If this is NOT a viable radio, please notify me!

Jerry AB5R


From zmetzing at pobox.com  Fri Jul 24 21:00:26 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 16:00:26 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Radio Information, Please
In-Reply-To: <SN6PR11MB275211E17BE1F4E056702644D0770@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN6PR11MB275211E17BE1F4E056702644D0770@SN6PR11MB2752.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <537ecbfa-c783-d2bf-fab5-430a40b1dd1a@pobox.com>

On 07/24/20 15:18, Gerald Payton via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> I just renewed membership and request information about compatibility on my radio ( IC-2730A ) for working the FM birds.
> 
> I was hoping to use my IC-2730A along with HRD but cannot find a CAT cable for compatibility.  HRD lists the 2730 as an available radio but no joy connecting.
> 
> I am hoping to connect with someone that IS or HAS used this radio with or without HRD for help.

Hello Jerry,

The CAT control protocol is specific to Yaesu radios, with the physical 
interface being a 9-pin RS-232 port. My FT-847, for instance, has a CAT 
serial port on the back of it.

Icom uses CI-V, which is a multi-drop serial port, somewhat like RS-423 
except that the voltage levels are +5V and 0V. 
(http://www.plicht.de/ekki/civ/civ-p1.html) On my IC-746PRO, this 
manifests as a 3.5mm headphone jack.

It appears that you'd need the optional OPC-478UC unit to use CI-V 
control of this rig.

I don't know anything about HRD, assuming you mean Ham Radio Deluxe.

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From ve3nxk at gmail.com  Fri Jul 24 21:38:41 2020
From: ve3nxk at gmail.com (Bill Booth)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 17:38:41 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO junk?
In-Reply-To: <DM5PR22MB0825F31A886148E6BE0706F487770@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <33243A3E-7AD5-4A10-85CA-83A92D9AD60F@mac.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20200724130811.02150660@pop.earthlink.net>
	<DM5PR22MB0825F31A886148E6BE0706F487770@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <8b8df3aa-a9d4-d90b-6ce2-6aa47211684e@gmail.com>

On 2020-07-24 3:38 p.m., Joseph B. Fitzgerald via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Not all comet watchers enjoy seeing man made

Probably on of the Starlink sats, as there is a lot of them that can be seen very 
easily. More to come eventually as there is going to be 4000 of them in a few years.

-- 
Bill Booth VE3NXK
Sundridge ON, Canada
79.23.37 W x 45.46.18 N
FN05ns

Visit my weather WebCam at http://www.almaguin.com/wxcurrent/weather.html

Organ and Tissue Donation - The Gift of Life
Talk to your family.  Your decision can make a difference.

From wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc  Fri Jul 24 23:00:29 2020
From: wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc (Burns Fisher)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 19:00:29 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO junk?
In-Reply-To: <8b8df3aa-a9d4-d90b-6ce2-6aa47211684e@gmail.com>
References: <33243A3E-7AD5-4A10-85CA-83A92D9AD60F@mac.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20200724130811.02150660@pop.earthlink.net>
	<DM5PR22MB0825F31A886148E6BE0706F487770@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
	<8b8df3aa-a9d4-d90b-6ce2-6aa47211684e@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABX7KxVQWS8ufFgbXDnyVoGKUozVOkKfwVQDn8onfLFqUpRbPg@mail.gmail.com>

Aren't Starlink fairly low LEO birds?  How about Iridium?  They are a bit
higher, I think, and have some particular times when they are very visible
depending on the angle.  Interesting discussion.

On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 5:40 PM Bill Booth via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> On 2020-07-24 3:38 p.m., Joseph B. Fitzgerald via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > Not all comet watchers enjoy seeing man made
>
> Probably on of the Starlink sats, as there is a lot of them that can be
> seen very
> easily. More to come eventually as there is going to be 4000 of them in a
> few years.
>
> --
> Bill Booth VE3NXK
> Sundridge ON, Canada
> 79.23.37 W x 45.46.18 N
> FN05ns
>
> Visit my weather WebCam at http://www.almaguin.com/wxcurrent/weather.html
>
> Organ and Tissue Donation - The Gift of Life
> Talk to your family.  Your decision can make a difference.
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From tnetcenter at gmail.com  Sat Jul 25 02:01:56 2020
From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 19:01:56 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO junk?
In-Reply-To: <33243A3E-7AD5-4A10-85CA-83A92D9AD60F@mac.com>
References: <33243A3E-7AD5-4A10-85CA-83A92D9AD60F@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CALx_moRNZ_HnCRhqRK9052hD0-BPmicKakWQXaW5T6iPjTNALQ@mail.gmail.com>

Just curious - what makes you think it's junk??

The military (ours and others) have lots of hardware up there, both
operational and junk!!

7  3
Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY
CN94


On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 11:44 AM Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> While looking for the comet from Southern California last night (too low
> to
> see through city lights), I saw something right above me ? moving ?
>
> Way too slow to be what I would call ?low-earth? stuff ?
>
> Which meant is was much higher? Is there ?HEO junk? out there?
>
> Puzzled,
>
> Clint K6LCS
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From bruce at perens.com  Sat Jul 25 02:25:02 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 19:25:02 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO junk?
In-Reply-To: <CABX7KxVQWS8ufFgbXDnyVoGKUozVOkKfwVQDn8onfLFqUpRbPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <33243A3E-7AD5-4A10-85CA-83A92D9AD60F@mac.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20200724130811.02150660@pop.earthlink.net>
	<DM5PR22MB0825F31A886148E6BE0706F487770@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
	<8b8df3aa-a9d4-d90b-6ce2-6aa47211684e@gmail.com>
	<CABX7KxVQWS8ufFgbXDnyVoGKUozVOkKfwVQDn8onfLFqUpRbPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOviWLoEfJXhEcrJzuQ7P9tXPnd9vKvLAd7T4CHEQS5Dqg@mail.gmail.com>

The Iridium sats with the highly-reflective surfaces have been deorbited,
except for a few that can not be deorbited due to failure. They still
flare, but since they don't preserve their attitude any longer, it is no
longer possible to predict a flare.

>

From bruce at perens.com  Sat Jul 25 03:21:53 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 20:21:53 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO junk?
In-Reply-To: <d64840ad-b8f4-003c-fcf0-e22e153add9b@gmail.com>
References: <33243A3E-7AD5-4A10-85CA-83A92D9AD60F@mac.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20200724130811.02150660@pop.earthlink.net>
	<DM5PR22MB0825F31A886148E6BE0706F487770@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
	<8b8df3aa-a9d4-d90b-6ce2-6aa47211684e@gmail.com>
	<CABX7KxVQWS8ufFgbXDnyVoGKUozVOkKfwVQDn8onfLFqUpRbPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOviWLoEfJXhEcrJzuQ7P9tXPnd9vKvLAd7T4CHEQS5Dqg@mail.gmail.com>
	<d64840ad-b8f4-003c-fcf0-e22e153add9b@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOttXoc-QicLUDHsyc-f+6k+v6rF5wyazFDMfVqx35f1+w@mail.gmail.com>

Looks like this one, so you may be right:
https://mobile.twitter.com/IridiumBoss/status/1284565484344672256

From walterh at k5wh.net  Sat Jul 25 05:49:28 2020
From: walterh at k5wh.net (walterh at k5wh.net)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 00:49:28 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] FM Satellite HT Night Proposal
Message-ID: <026901d66247$5ce10860$16a31920$@k5wh.net>

A little food for thought:

 

Any idea what the chances would be of having something like 1 night a week or month, on ONE of the FM birds, that could be reserved for HT access only?

 

My thinking on this would be a great way for people to test out their portable or limited satellite stations with a great deal less collisions against all the other much stronger stations.

 

I have heard from plenty of people that would like to try a temporary or portable station on the birds, but we all know that?s not even a remote possibility unless your on super early in the morning or late at night.

 

Ie..  it would be great to see how many people could test and build their skills to operate with an HT and an arrow or something, kinda like the old days. ?

 

Just dreaming out-loud. ?

 

 

Walter/K5WH

 


From w7lrd at comcast.net  Sat Jul 25 08:09:28 2020
From: w7lrd at comcast.net (73 Bob W7LRD)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 01:09:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [amsat-bb] RS-44 orbit
Message-ID: <2042887792.4388.1595664568465@connect.xfinity.com>

Hi-RS44 varies in altitude from about 1180 to about 1525.  Seemingly always in the southern hemisphere.  I'm trying to wrap my head around the orbital mechanics and getting nowhere.  Does the maximum height ever get to the northern hemisphere?  I'm obviously missing something here, a little help please. 
73 Bob W7LRD                               

From koos at idefix.net  Sat Jul 25 09:12:19 2020
From: koos at idefix.net (Koos van den Hout)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 11:12:19 +0200
Subject: [amsat-bb] FM Satellite HT Night Proposal
In-Reply-To: <026901d66247$5ce10860$16a31920$@k5wh.net>
References: <026901d66247$5ce10860$16a31920$@k5wh.net>
Message-ID: <20200725091219.3hp4sxfiwjg3ahts@idefix.net>

Quoting Walter Holmes via AMSAT-BB who wrote on Sat 2020-07-25 at 00:49:

> Any idea what the chances would be of having something like 1 night a week or month, on ONE of the FM birds, that could be reserved for HT access only?
> 
> My thinking on this would be a great way for people to test out their portable or limited satellite stations with a great deal less collisions against all the other much stronger stations.
> 
> I have heard from plenty of people that would like to try a temporary or portable station on the birds, but we all know that?s not even a remote possibility unless your on super early in the morning or late at night.

As it happens I was trying a new radio for a portable setup last evening
(I bought a KG-UV1K to get full-duplex capabilities).

On a not-to-high pass yesterday evening (max 21 degrees elevation with lots
of buildings around) I did hear AO-92 and could understand some of the
callsigns, but could not get in at all. Mister Ollaaaa was also active on
some occassions. I will try again on a higher pass.

My plan is to bring it along on an upcoming holiday, which will be in a
somewhat rare grid. But since it's a holiday and I'm not sure when a pass
will be at a usable time, I'm not going to announce it as an activation. I
may just make a few contacts.

So I'm the 'target audience' for your idea, and I really think it's a good
idea.

Koos PE4KH

-- 
Amateur station PE4KH
https://pe4kh.idefix.net/

From hamsat at xs4all.nl  Sat Jul 25 09:36:24 2020
From: hamsat at xs4all.nl (Nico Janssen)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 11:36:24 +0200
Subject: [amsat-bb] RS-44 orbit
In-Reply-To: <2042887792.4388.1595664568465@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <2042887792.4388.1595664568465@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <93237af4-8b15-d442-9d29-3921fa446012@xs4all.nl>

Bob,

If you look at the TLE for RS 44 you will see that the argument of perigee
currently is near 139 degrees. Since this value is between 0 and 180 
degrees,
that means that the perigee (the low point of the orbit) is over the 
northern
hemisphere. Therefore the apogee (the high point of the orbit) is over the
southern hemisphere. But if you monitor the TLEs for RS 44 over a longer
period you will notice that the value of the argument of perigee drifts. As
soon as that value comes between 180 and 360 degrees, the apogee is over
the northern hemisphere.

Usually the argument of perigee of satellites will drift. How fast it drifts
depends on the orbit inclination. There is only one situation where the
argument of perigee does not drift. That is when the inclination has a value
of 63.435 degrees. Then the latitude of both perigee and apogee will remain
constant.

Hope this helps.

73,
Nico PA0DLO

On 25-07-2020 10:09, 73 Bob W7LRD via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Hi-RS44 varies in altitude from about 1180 to about 1525.  Seemingly always in the southern hemisphere.  I'm trying to wrap my head around the orbital mechanics and getting nowhere.  Does the maximum height ever get to the northern hemisphere?  I'm obviously missing something here, a little help please.
> 73 Bob W7LRD
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From ok2gz at seznam.cz  Sat Jul 25 11:17:25 2020
From: ok2gz at seznam.cz (ok2gz)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 13:17:25 +0200
Subject: [amsat-bb] RS-44 orbit
Message-ID: <044de62f-6e93-b3f1-3504-877a209c67f0@seznam.cz>

Hi Bob and Nico,

 ?I want to add some info about this problem.

If You have the ARRL Satellite Handbook, see? page A-8 (Appendix A - 
Satellite Orbits).

There is Equation 13a, which give us the value - rate of change of 
argument of perigee in degrees per day.

The value for RS-44 with? current TLE data is?? -2.3331333 degrees per day.

A negative value means that the ARGP angle will be smaller tomorrow.

For example 180? degrees divided by -2.3331333 is approx. -77.1495471 days.

So, in 77.15 days the positions of the apogee and perigee will be swaped.
And yet, if we have apogee in the best position for some rare qso with 
RS-44 transponder,? this situation will be repeated 2.366 times per year.

My calculation:
360/2.3331333 = 154.2989
and 365 days / 154.2989 is 2.366

With the same equation 13a? we can calculate the famous angle of 63.435 
degrees of inclination with zero drift as Nico says. This angle was used 
by the old Russian Molnia satellites at a time when it was still 
difficult to reach a geostationary orbit.

My favorite FO-29 (now probably nice history) has Rate of change ARGP 
-2.573348 deg/day.
Yet, AO-91 with elliptical orbit (apogee 811.8 km /perigee 453.6 km) has 
Rate of change ARGP? = -3.251476 degrees/day, so it takes -55.359 days 
for exchange apogee and perigee positions..

It is very good to check the ARGP angle in the TLE data when working via 
elliptical orbiting satellites.
For example, for the qso between the eastern costs of the USA and 
Europe, we need an orbit height of approximately 950 km (for OK 
stations). FO-29has an apogee height of 1320.8 km, perigee 801.2 km. It 
was not possible to make with the apogee in the wrong position
QSO? USA-Europe...

73
Jarda ok2gz





-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

From yono_adisoemarta at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 25 12:15:35 2020
From: yono_adisoemarta at yahoo.com (Yono Adisoemarta)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 19:15:35 +0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] FM Satellite HT Night Proposal
In-Reply-To: <20200725091219.3hp4sxfiwjg3ahts@idefix.net>
References: <20200725091219.3hp4sxfiwjg3ahts@idefix.net>
Message-ID: <9A975409-FCDA-482E-9AB6-4C170D8C8FB6@yahoo.com>


We have conducted several times ?HT only pass? on IO-86.

Real nice to practice sat qso using HT.

73 de Yono - YD0NXX 
Jakarta - Indonesia 



Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 25, 2020, at 4:18 PM, Koos van den Hout via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?Quoting Walter Holmes via AMSAT-BB who wrote on Sat 2020-07-25 at 00:49:
> 
>> Any idea what the chances would be of having something like 1 night a week or month, on ONE of the FM birds, that could be reserved for HT access only?
>> 
>> My thinking on this would be a great way for people to test out their portable or limited satellite stations with a great deal less collisions against all the other much stronger stations.
>> 
>> I have heard from plenty of people that would like to try a temporary or portable station on the birds, but we all know that?s not even a remote possibility unless your on super early in the morning or late at night.


From dtabor52 at gmail.com  Sat Jul 25 13:15:17 2020
From: dtabor52 at gmail.com (Douglas Tabor)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 07:15:17 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb]  FM Satellite HT Night Proposal
Message-ID: <8A80B964-B31B-4BCB-8D69-93F55D3D73F1@gmail.com>

I really like Walters? idea of having an HT only (or QRP) time for
an FM satellite.

Once a week or even month would be fine. I have special memories
of using my TH-D72 with a long whip getting into AO-91 and working
ZL3GAV (from RF73 to RE66) back in 2018. 

My thought is this non-QRO time would allow new-to-sat hams and those
testing portable equipment an opportunity to experience the wonder of
satellites without having to wedge themselves between other QSOs.

And to Walters? final comment about operating with an HT and an Arrow
That was my experience for two years with ONLY SO-50 available and a
Yaesu FT-530 running 2.5 watts. The competition for SO-50 was intense
with other rovers and QRO stations.

Hector (congrats GridMaster #13) suggested I use a larger battery for
full 5 watts from the FT-530. This could be one of potential results
for an operator using this ?special? time for HT-only FM sat usage.
 
73 and Dream On Walter. Great idea!

Doug, N6UA

Douglas Tabor
dtabor52 at gmail.com




From kd4iz at frawg.org  Sat Jul 25 15:15:06 2020
From: kd4iz at frawg.org (kd4iz at frawg.org)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 11:15:06 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] FM Satellite HT Night Proposal
In-Reply-To: <026901d66247$5ce10860$16a31920$@k5wh.net>
References: <026901d66247$5ce10860$16a31920$@k5wh.net>
Message-ID: <022501d66296$62c76720$28563560$@frawg.org>

Hi Walter,

I'd love it! I am still learning (or trying) how to do FM HT w an Arrow here and have had some "1/2 successes" but nothing great... certainly not rewarding enough for me to stand out in the yard pass after pass trying in July heat and humidity.

A serious problem is (as pointed out by Koos), interjections by "Mr. Ollaaa" along with QRO sigs swamping the birds.

Challenge: Do we (general hamdom) have the discipline and civility to observe an HT only/no QRO pass schedules?

"Wouldn't it be nice if...?" (credit Mike Love/Brian Wilson)

Jack Spitznagel ? KD4IZ
Trustee for NR3DT
Museum Ship USCGC W-37 Amateur Radio Group



-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Walter Holmes via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2020 01:49
To: 'AMSAT BB' <AMSAT-BB at amsat.org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] FM Satellite HT Night Proposal

A little food for thought:

 

Any idea what the chances would be of having something like 1 night a week or month, on ONE of the FM birds, that could be reserved for HT access only?

 

My thinking on this would be a great way for people to test out their portable or limited satellite stations with a great deal less collisions against all the other much stronger stations.

 

I have heard from plenty of people that would like to try a temporary or portable station on the birds, but we all know that?s not even a remote possibility unless your on super early in the morning or late at night.

 

Ie..  it would be great to see how many people could test and build their skills to operate with an HT and an arrow or something, kinda like the old days. ?

 

Just dreaming out-loud. ?

 

 

Walter/K5WH

 

_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From jonathanwesleystone+KI5BEX at gmail.com  Fri Jul 24 23:26:21 2020
From: jonathanwesleystone+KI5BEX at gmail.com (Jonathan Wesley Stone (KI5BEX))
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 18:26:21 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballots?
In-Reply-To: <CAHirYAg=iABHwHhH+qgvLyP1q-ZpBsnSJ5KOdYeifHht8iPgAg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHirYAg=iABHwHhH+qgvLyP1q-ZpBsnSJ5KOdYeifHht8iPgAg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJQcYMh4od=-eprQo-mFcxwAveRu=Lgn-x2qsRkrpbgqM1KwrA@mail.gmail.com>

I am rooting for USPS, but I hear what you are saying. But, hear me: we
should be able to cast our vote via satellite pass QSO with the secretary.
This is fine, since no one is allowed to use another's callsign.

Cheers and '73!
kilo india five blahblah e!@#$%^&*() x-ray


On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 8:58 PM Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-717-1197 via
AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> It's pretty sad we can't vote online.  I had to use up one of my stock
> of stamps- how 20th century, like checks.
> 73, doug
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From stephennipper at gmail.com  Sat Jul 25 15:24:49 2020
From: stephennipper at gmail.com (H. Stephen Nipper)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 09:24:49 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballots?
In-Reply-To: <CAJQcYMh4od=-eprQo-mFcxwAveRu=Lgn-x2qsRkrpbgqM1KwrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHirYAg=iABHwHhH+qgvLyP1q-ZpBsnSJ5KOdYeifHht8iPgAg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJQcYMh4od=-eprQo-mFcxwAveRu=Lgn-x2qsRkrpbgqM1KwrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPf7+3pvKo8UxeXB0hQ1qObaLXBab1H3MHaE84c+sWfBsQ-rLg@mail.gmail.com>

I am starting to wonder if the USPS is back to using the Pony Express to
get the Ballots to us in Idaho.  Still nothing.  When do they have to be
returned?  Hope they give enough time for the pony to make it back east.


On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 9:21 AM Jonathan Wesley Stone (KI5BEX) via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I am rooting for USPS, but I hear what you are saying. But, hear me: we
> should be able to cast our vote via satellite pass QSO with the secretary.
> This is fine, since no one is allowed to use another's callsign.
>
> Cheers and '73!
> kilo india five blahblah e!@#$%^&*() x-ray
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 8:58 PM Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-717-1197 via
> AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > It's pretty sad we can't vote online.  I had to use up one of my stock
> > of stamps- how 20th century, like checks.
> > 73, doug
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
Stephen Nipper
Boise, Idaho
N7DJX

From arrl.kvan at gmail.com  Sat Jul 25 15:34:19 2020
From: arrl.kvan at gmail.com (Ham Radio Essentials)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 10:34:19 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] W0AAE GRID ROVING TO EN47 AREA
Message-ID: <CA+-4fePmT=GFnpTB+zjELAmDaxYSky6PkP5rs1NgLwKKqJX3RQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

Sorry this information is a little late. I've been busy with other stuff. I
will be going to the North Shore of Minnesota, July 26-29 . I'm hoping to
activate a few grids on this trip. Grids will probably be EN47, EN46, or
around those grids. I will only be doing AO-91 and AO-92 satellites, and
maybe some SO-50. This will be a relaxing trip, so I will get on the
satellites when I can. Thanks everybody!

73 de W0AAE

From w2kj at bellsouth.net  Sat Jul 25 15:42:33 2020
From: w2kj at bellsouth.net (Joseph Trombino, Jr)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 11:42:33 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO7 yesterday
References: <917DD52E-77DE-4962-9DB6-42BA6D4FFBE4.ref@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <917DD52E-77DE-4962-9DB6-42BA6D4FFBE4@bellsouth.net>

Howdy Gang.

Got my SSB preamps installed yesterday and listened for AO7 just for grins.

Listened on the beacon frequency 145.700Mhz+/-  for a few minutes past AOS and heard nothing.

Tuned down into the passband heard a couple of stations?believe I copied KB1HY in FN31 on SSB.

Is the beacon still working on AO7?

Just getting my feet wet after quite a few years.

			73, Joe W2KJ

From n4qwf1 at gmail.com  Sat Jul 25 16:01:50 2020
From: n4qwf1 at gmail.com (n4qwf)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 12:01:50 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Arrow antenna for sale
Message-ID: <CA+Fxo6Ry96YUu8YrwtftagkVy8ac0kOHOhyXur2YyCUOmrEhuw@mail.gmail.com>

I have the model 146/437-10wBP arrow antenna I wish to sell. It has the
removable duplexer in the handle and is the split boom model. It has 3
elements for VHF and 7 elements for UHF. It is in excellent condition. The
new price is $159.00 for this antenna. I am asking $100.00 plus shipping.

Thanks <<John

From mark at kk7cu.net  Sat Jul 25 16:11:28 2020
From: mark at kk7cu.net (Mark Lockwood)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 10:11:28 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO junk?
In-Reply-To: <33243A3E-7AD5-4A10-85CA-83A92D9AD60F@mac.com>
References: <33243A3E-7AD5-4A10-85CA-83A92D9AD60F@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAHG=g5u3sJ1h1DDWfNAPVJ6YcaQT2NLh_JSvzfdPq7rUgFGzNw@mail.gmail.com>

There are many man made objects in orbit.  The mission plan for
Geo-stationary satellites is to super-sync them at end of life sending them
into a  higher orbit out of the way of the rest of the geo constellation.
Geo is fairly high orbit, approximately 22,300 miles above the equator, and
they need to get them significantly above that to retire them.

On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 11:59 AM Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> While looking for the comet from Southern California last night (too low
> to
> see through city lights), I saw something right above me ? moving ?
>
> Way too slow to be what I would call ?low-earth? stuff ?
>
> Which meant is was much higher? Is there ?HEO junk? out there?
>
> Puzzled,
>
> Clint K6LCS
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
Mark Lockwood
Digital Business Card <http://linkmwl.xyz/yrl/emailsig>

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 25 16:22:44 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 09:22:44 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballots?
In-Reply-To: <CAJQcYMh4od=-eprQo-mFcxwAveRu=Lgn-x2qsRkrpbgqM1KwrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHirYAg=iABHwHhH+qgvLyP1q-ZpBsnSJ5KOdYeifHht8iPgAg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJQcYMh4od=-eprQo-mFcxwAveRu=Lgn-x2qsRkrpbgqM1KwrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fea91ba3-0516-4c41-abc7-bcac75cc2989@yahoo.com>

Do the on-air pirates know that? ?

"This is fine, since no one is allowed to use another's callsign."

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 25, 2020, 08:22, at 08:22, "Jonathan Wesley Stone (KI5BEX) via AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>I am rooting for USPS, but I hear what you are saying. But, hear me: we
>should be able to cast our vote via satellite pass QSO with the
>secretary.
>This is fine, since no one is allowed to use another's callsign.
>
>Cheers and '73!
>kilo india five blahblah e!@#$%^&*() x-ray
>
>
>On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 8:58 PM Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-717-1197 via
>AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> It's pretty sad we can't vote online.  I had to use up one of my
>stock
>> of stamps- how 20th century, like checks.
>> 73, doug
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>> Subscription settings:
>https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From jean.marc.momple at gmail.com  Sat Jul 25 16:38:12 2020
From: jean.marc.momple at gmail.com (Jean Marc Momple)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 20:38:12 +0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballots?
In-Reply-To: <fea91ba3-0516-4c41-abc7-bcac75cc2989@yahoo.com>
References: <CAHirYAg=iABHwHhH+qgvLyP1q-ZpBsnSJ5KOdYeifHht8iPgAg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJQcYMh4od=-eprQo-mFcxwAveRu=Lgn-x2qsRkrpbgqM1KwrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<fea91ba3-0516-4c41-abc7-bcac75cc2989@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D05E4767-1BBE-4F79-BB9F-BF9F2910F216@gmail.com>

More seriously,

We guys far away from US may not receive the ballots in time as for example 3B8 is still close for Post (or limited),  thus members around the world may not be able to cast their vote.

Therefore, I strongly suggest that electronic vote be put in place or at least the ballots should be sent trough e-mail and scan sign copy of the duly filled document be valid for far away members.

Just a suggestion.



Jean Marc (3B8DU)


> On Jul 25, 2020, at 8:22 PM, W3AB/GEO via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> Do the on-air pirates know that? ?
> 
> "This is fine, since no one is allowed to use another's callsign."
> 
> ?___
> Sent from my two way wrist watch
> 73 de W3AB/GEO?
> 
> On Jul 25, 2020, 08:22, at 08:22, "Jonathan Wesley Stone (KI5BEX) via AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> I am rooting for USPS, but I hear what you are saying. But, hear me: we
>> should be able to cast our vote via satellite pass QSO with the
>> secretary.
>> This is fine, since no one is allowed to use another's callsign.
>> 
>> Cheers and '73!
>> kilo india five blahblah e!@#$%^&*() x-ray
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 8:58 PM Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-717-1197 via
>> AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> It's pretty sad we can't vote online.  I had to use up one of my
>> stock
>>> of stamps- how 20th century, like checks.
>>> 73, doug
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions
>>> expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of
>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>>> Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From propgrinder at gmail.com  Sat Jul 25 17:19:52 2020
From: propgrinder at gmail.com (Bob Hammond)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 10:19:52 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballots?
In-Reply-To: <D05E4767-1BBE-4F79-BB9F-BF9F2910F216@gmail.com>
References: <CAHirYAg=iABHwHhH+qgvLyP1q-ZpBsnSJ5KOdYeifHht8iPgAg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJQcYMh4od=-eprQo-mFcxwAveRu=Lgn-x2qsRkrpbgqM1KwrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<fea91ba3-0516-4c41-abc7-bcac75cc2989@yahoo.com>
	<D05E4767-1BBE-4F79-BB9F-BF9F2910F216@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKoB7Op_wTzH9wUmX-Z4GhY3-7jO7voz+dLz361LHxQ+3SAzNA@mail.gmail.com>

I received my ballot two weeks ago.

Bob W7OTJ

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 9:43 AM Jean Marc Momple via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> More seriously,
>
> We guys far away from US may not receive the ballots in time as for
> example 3B8 is still close for Post (or limited),  thus members around the
> world may not be able to cast their vote.
>
> Therefore, I strongly suggest that electronic vote be put in place or at
> least the ballots should be sent trough e-mail and scan sign copy of the
> duly filled document be valid for far away members.
>
> Just a suggestion.
>
>
>
> Jean Marc (3B8DU)
>
>
> > On Jul 25, 2020, at 8:22 PM, W3AB/GEO via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Do the on-air pirates know that? ?
> >
> > "This is fine, since no one is allowed to use another's callsign."
> >
> > ?___
> > Sent from my two way wrist watch
> > 73 de W3AB/GEO?
> >
> > On Jul 25, 2020, 08:22, at 08:22, "Jonathan Wesley Stone (KI5BEX) via
> AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >> I am rooting for USPS, but I hear what you are saying. But, hear me: we
> >> should be able to cast our vote via satellite pass QSO with the
> >> secretary.
> >> This is fine, since no one is allowed to use another's callsign.
> >>
> >> Cheers and '73!
> >> kilo india five blahblah e!@#$%^&*() x-ray
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 8:58 PM Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-717-1197 via
> >> AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> It's pretty sad we can't vote online.  I had to use up one of my
> >> stock
> >>> of stamps- how 20th century, like checks.
> >>> 73, doug
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions
> >>> expressed
> >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> >> of
> >>> AMSAT-NA.
> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >> program!
> >>> Subscription settings:
> >> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> >> of AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From dougfaunt at gmail.com  Sat Jul 25 17:28:34 2020
From: dougfaunt at gmail.com (Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-717-1197)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 10:28:34 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballots?
In-Reply-To: <D05E4767-1BBE-4F79-BB9F-BF9F2910F216@gmail.com>
References: <CAHirYAg=iABHwHhH+qgvLyP1q-ZpBsnSJ5KOdYeifHht8iPgAg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJQcYMh4od=-eprQo-mFcxwAveRu=Lgn-x2qsRkrpbgqM1KwrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<fea91ba3-0516-4c41-abc7-bcac75cc2989@yahoo.com>
	<D05E4767-1BBE-4F79-BB9F-BF9F2910F216@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHirYAhjOOAh0Y7rg6pwFWOWYxucq-wUCj=C3i6T3eiaW7ZE8g@mail.gmail.com>

Print, sign, scan, email should be an acceptable solution.
73, Doug


On Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 09:38 Jean Marc Momple <jean.marc.momple at gmail.com>
wrote:

> More seriously,
>
> We guys far away from US may not receive the ballots in time as for
> example 3B8 is still close for Post (or limited),  thus members around the
> world may not be able to cast their vote.
>
> Therefore, I strongly suggest that electronic vote be put in place or at
> least the ballots should be sent trough e-mail and scan sign copy of the
> duly filled document be valid for far away members.
>
> Just a suggestion.
>
>
>
> Jean Marc (3B8DU)
>
>
> > On Jul 25, 2020, at 8:22 PM, W3AB/GEO via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Do the on-air pirates know that? ?
> >
> > "This is fine, since no one is allowed to use another's callsign."
> >
> > ?___
> > Sent from my two way wrist watch
> > 73 de W3AB/GEO?
> >
> > On Jul 25, 2020, 08:22, at 08:22, "Jonathan Wesley Stone (KI5BEX) via
> AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >> I am rooting for USPS, but I hear what you are saying. But, hear me: we
> >> should be able to cast our vote via satellite pass QSO with the
> >> secretary.
> >> This is fine, since no one is allowed to use another's callsign.
> >>
> >> Cheers and '73!
> >> kilo india five blahblah e!@#$%^&*() x-ray
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 8:58 PM Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-717-1197 via
> >> AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> It's pretty sad we can't vote online.  I had to use up one of my
> >> stock
> >>> of stamps- how 20th century, like checks.
> >>> 73, doug
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions
> >>> expressed
> >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> >> of
> >>> AMSAT-NA.
> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >> program!
> >>> Subscription settings:
> >> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> >> of AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>

From kd6yam at amsat.org  Sat Jul 25 17:34:40 2020
From: kd6yam at amsat.org (Martin Cooper)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 10:34:40 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballots?
In-Reply-To: <D05E4767-1BBE-4F79-BB9F-BF9F2910F216@gmail.com>
References: <CAHirYAg=iABHwHhH+qgvLyP1q-ZpBsnSJ5KOdYeifHht8iPgAg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJQcYMh4od=-eprQo-mFcxwAveRu=Lgn-x2qsRkrpbgqM1KwrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<fea91ba3-0516-4c41-abc7-bcac75cc2989@yahoo.com>
	<D05E4767-1BBE-4F79-BB9F-BF9F2910F216@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGEtHiJ=RFjFOZVcN3qrFXodihqEfGN9Ru-tjrG8cYuoYxNsfw@mail.gmail.com>

FYI, ballots are due to be returned by September 15th, which is 7 weeks and
3 days from today.

Martin.
KD6YAM

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 9:39 AM Jean Marc Momple via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> More seriously,
>
> We guys far away from US may not receive the ballots in time as for
> example 3B8 is still close for Post (or limited),  thus members around the
> world may not be able to cast their vote.
>
> Therefore, I strongly suggest that electronic vote be put in place or at
> least the ballots should be sent trough e-mail and scan sign copy of the
> duly filled document be valid for far away members.
>
> Just a suggestion.
>
>
>
> Jean Marc (3B8DU)
>
>
> > On Jul 25, 2020, at 8:22 PM, W3AB/GEO via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Do the on-air pirates know that? ?
> >
> > "This is fine, since no one is allowed to use another's callsign."
> >
> > ?___
> > Sent from my two way wrist watch
> > 73 de W3AB/GEO?
> >
> > On Jul 25, 2020, 08:22, at 08:22, "Jonathan Wesley Stone (KI5BEX) via
> AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >> I am rooting for USPS, but I hear what you are saying. But, hear me: we
> >> should be able to cast our vote via satellite pass QSO with the
> >> secretary.
> >> This is fine, since no one is allowed to use another's callsign.
> >>
> >> Cheers and '73!
> >> kilo india five blahblah e!@#$%^&*() x-ray
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 8:58 PM Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-717-1197 via
> >> AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> It's pretty sad we can't vote online.  I had to use up one of my
> >> stock
> >>> of stamps- how 20th century, like checks.
> >>> 73, doug
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions
> >>> expressed
> >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> >> of
> >>> AMSAT-NA.
> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >> program!
> >>> Subscription settings:
> >> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> >> of AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From w2ev at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 25 18:46:07 2020
From: w2ev at yahoo.com (Ev Tupis)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 18:46:07 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Modernized/Efficient Voting [was: Ballots?]
In-Reply-To: <CAHirYAhjOOAh0Y7rg6pwFWOWYxucq-wUCj=C3i6T3eiaW7ZE8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHirYAg=iABHwHhH+qgvLyP1q-ZpBsnSJ5KOdYeifHht8iPgAg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJQcYMh4od=-eprQo-mFcxwAveRu=Lgn-x2qsRkrpbgqM1KwrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<fea91ba3-0516-4c41-abc7-bcac75cc2989@yahoo.com>
	<D05E4767-1BBE-4F79-BB9F-BF9F2910F216@gmail.com>
	<CAHirYAhjOOAh0Y7rg6pwFWOWYxucq-wUCj=C3i6T3eiaW7ZE8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1058086622.7118128.1595702767915@mail.yahoo.com>

The wisdom of the crowd is coming into focus.? -Ev, W2EV


Doug Faunt N6TQS wrote: 
Print, sign, scan, email should be an acceptable solution.
73, Doug


Jean Marc Momple <jean.marc.momple at gmail.com> worte:

Therefore, I strongly suggest that electronic vote be put in place or at
least the ballots should be sent trough e-mail and scan sign copy of the
duly filled document be valid for far away members.

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Sat Jul 25 18:50:33 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 13:50:33 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Telling the difference between 50-ohm and 75-ohm N
	connectors
Message-ID: <b82d080d-7997-f26d-ca00-80f6719f4d48@pobox.com>


I just ran across this tidbit[1]:

> Q: How can I tell the difference between a 50 and 75 Ohm N connector?
> A: You can tell the difference by the center pin. A 50 Ohm connector has a pointed pin. A 75 Ohm has a rounded pin.
I've always looked at the center conductor to shield (not ferrule) 
distance to make sure I had a 50-ohm version. I don't have any 75-ohm 
versions lying about the shack. Can anyone else confirm this?

I recall, back in my RF engineer days, that we had a whole box of 75-ohm 
N connectors which were marked with bright red paint. Woe to the junior 
engineer who coupled the 50-ohm and 75-ohm version, which would bend the 
center spring fingers on the female connector apart permanently.

One can also kill a female N connector by mating it with a male PL-259. 
I have not done this myself, but I knew someone who did this twice on 
his fancy new antenna analyzer and wondering why everything was such a 
poor match. :-)

[1] https://www.showmecables.com/n-male-crimp-connector-lmr-400-belden-9913

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From k1rdd73 at gmail.com  Sat Jul 25 20:43:20 2020
From: k1rdd73 at gmail.com (Doug Daniels)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 16:43:20 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] FM Satellite HT Night Proposal
In-Reply-To: <026901d66247$5ce10860$16a31920$@k5wh.net>
References: <026901d66247$5ce10860$16a31920$@k5wh.net>
Message-ID: <CAEwXZzv5jC_Psa8zQYbOuvVdCCbMeLBTYDrUqGHnQUCgRxRn=g@mail.gmail.com>

I am brand new to Satellites, and just made my first Q with my two HTs. I
will never have the facilities to have anything more extensive than HTs and
a Arrow/Elk type antenna. This type of agreement would be incredibly
beneficial to me and those like me.

Great idea, thanks.

73,
Doug, K1RDD

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 2:00 AM Walter Holmes via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> A little food for thought:
>
>
>
> Any idea what the chances would be of having something like 1 night a week
> or month, on ONE of the FM birds, that could be reserved for HT access only?
>
>
>
> My thinking on this would be a great way for people to test out their
> portable or limited satellite stations with a great deal less collisions
> against all the other much stronger stations.
>
>
>
> I have heard from plenty of people that would like to try a temporary or
> portable station on the birds, but we all know that?s not even a remote
> possibility unless your on super early in the morning or late at night.
>
>
>
> Ie..  it would be great to see how many people could test and build their
> skills to operate with an HT and an arrow or something, kinda like the old
> days. ?
>
>
>
> Just dreaming out-loud. ?
>
>
>
>
>
> Walter/K5WH
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 

--... ...--
Doug

From n4qwf1 at gmail.com  Sat Jul 25 21:08:23 2020
From: n4qwf1 at gmail.com (n4qwf)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 17:08:23 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Arrow antenna for sale
In-Reply-To: <CA+Fxo6Ry96YUu8YrwtftagkVy8ac0kOHOhyXur2YyCUOmrEhuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+Fxo6Ry96YUu8YrwtftagkVy8ac0kOHOhyXur2YyCUOmrEhuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Fxo6Ty8A75yiH0n44HD3FgCpQCV6-7UahnhjY070bNjTfcUg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to all that responded. The Arrow antenna has been sold.

73<<John

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 12:01 PM n4qwf <n4qwf1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have the model 146/437-10wBP arrow antenna I wish to sell. It has the
> removable duplexer in the handle and is the split boom model. It has 3
> elements for VHF and 7 elements for UHF. It is in excellent condition. The
> new price is $159.00 for this antenna. I am asking $100.00 plus shipping.
>
> Thanks <<John
>

From kk5do at arrl.net  Sat Jul 25 21:50:04 2020
From: kk5do at arrl.net (Bruce)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 16:50:04 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] FM Satellite HT Night Proposal
In-Reply-To: <CAEwXZzv5jC_Psa8zQYbOuvVdCCbMeLBTYDrUqGHnQUCgRxRn=g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <026901d66247$5ce10860$16a31920$@k5wh.net>
	<CAEwXZzv5jC_Psa8zQYbOuvVdCCbMeLBTYDrUqGHnQUCgRxRn=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fc7375a7-9f75-f6f1-ef39-0dea0a050122@arrl.net>

This is a great idea. However, have you thought about how you would let 
all satellite operators know? The amsat-bb only reaches so many. Twitter 
and FaceBook reach some of the same but still not all the operators. 
Then you have operators that are not members of AMSAT, the amsat-bb, 
Twitter and FaceBook. If you heard them on the satellite that one day, 
would you be telling them this day is for HT's only? They may not be 
AMSAT members, they use an online tracking program and have no idea of 
the new rules other than there is a satellite passing over and I am 
going to work someone. Or, it was their only day off that week. What if 
someone actually forgot that today is HT day and was operating with 500 
watts (just saying, there are 1kw linears for VHF) from home which by 
the way is a total waste of electricity and against the FCC rules. I 
still have my 170 watt VHF and 100 watt UHF linears from AO-10/AO-13 
days sitting on the shelf.

You can see how this would be nearly impossible to notify everyone. A 
good example is AMSAT Field Day. It is a 24 hour period. For some 10 
years we do not allow contacts on FM satellites beyond 1 per satellite. 
The reason is to allow space for those trying to make their ARRL 
satellite bonus points enough time. You can still make all the contacts 
you want on the FM satellites but we will only score 1 per satellite 
towards AMSAT Field Day. As expected several reported multiple contacts 
on an FM satellite and their score was adjusted. Field Day rules are 
written up in the Journal, on the AMSAT website, in ANS and various 
other locations. Yet, there are mistakes and they make multiple 
contacts. Sometimes the extra contact is unavoidable. You work your 
first contact and because your signal was so good, someone heard you and 
calls you. Instead of leaving them in the dust, you answer their call 
and give them their bonus points. You just cannot submit it for your 
AMSAT Field Day score.

This is the type of problem I think you would have if you were to try 
and make one day an HT day. Being a great idea to have a low power day 
it would be hard to let everyone know. Any suggestions on the 
notification process?

I think some of the frustration of new operators is not really having an 
HT day, it would be the thinning of the crowds. Satellites have become 
very popular in recent years and low cost HT's have made entry into 
working them a lot easier. With any FM single channel repeater, when you 
have two people trying to use it, it is a cake walk. When you have 100 
operators across the country all trying to get in, there is still only 
two that are going to make a contact. I have experienced the issue, I 
roved with an HT and Arrow and I too had problems getting in. The 
easiest contact for us in South Texas is when a satellite is ascending 
from the South and we are one of the first in the states to be in the 
window. Make a contact and done before the rest of the U.S. is in the 
window. Same for those in the North when there is a descending pass. 
Sometimes you have to make the satellite location work in your favor. It 
also works when you are the last in the window towards LOS. Or, for left 
and right coast only passes there is less of the U.S. in the window. 
These are natural thinning of the operators due to the satellite's 
position.

73...bruce

On 7/25/2020 3:43 PM, Doug Daniels via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> I am brand new to Satellites, and just made my first Q with my two HTs. I
> will never have the facilities to have anything more extensive than HTs and
> a Arrow/Elk type antenna. This type of agreement would be incredibly
> beneficial to me and those like me.
>
> Great idea, thanks.
>
> 73,
> Doug, K1RDD
>
> On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 2:00 AM Walter Holmes via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> A little food for thought:
>>
>>
>>
>> Any idea what the chances would be of having something like 1 night a week
>> or month, on ONE of the FM birds, that could be reserved for HT access only?
>>
>>

>>
>> My thinking on this would be a great way for people to test out their
>> portable or limited satellite stations with a great deal less collisions
>> against all the other much stronger stations.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have heard from plenty of people that would like to try a temporary or
>> portable station on the birds, but we all know that?s not even a remote
>> possibility unless your on super early in the morning or late at night.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ie..  it would be great to see how many people could test and build their
>> skills to operate with an HT and an arrow or something, kinda like the old
>> days. ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Just dreaming out-loud. ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Walter/K5WH
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>


-- 

Bruce Paige, KK5DO
                      
AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
AMSAT Board Member 2016-2020
   
ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
           
Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT*
Also live streaming MP3 at http://www.amsatnet.com
Podcast at http://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes
               
Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News
http://www.arrl.org

AMSAT on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/amsat



From w3ab at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 25 22:15:36 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (GEO Badger)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 22:15:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Telling the difference between 50-ohm and 75-ohm
	N	connectors
In-Reply-To: <b82d080d-7997-f26d-ca00-80f6719f4d48@pobox.com>
References: <b82d080d-7997-f26d-ca00-80f6719f4d48@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <1372946446.7154108.1595715336276@mail.yahoo.com>

Same with the 75? BNC/M connector.
---? 
 Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side??
73 de W3AB/GEO ??? 

 http://www.w3ab.org

You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out". 

    On Saturday, July 25, 2020, 11:52:48 AM PDT, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 
I just ran across this tidbit[1]:

> Q: How can I tell the difference between a 50 and 75 Ohm N connector?
> A: You can tell the difference by the center pin. A 50 Ohm connector has a pointed pin. A 75 Ohm has a rounded pin.
I've always looked at the center conductor to shield (not ferrule) 
distance to make sure I had a 50-ohm version. I don't have any 75-ohm 
versions lying about the shack. Can anyone else confirm this?

I recall, back in my RF engineer days, that we had a whole box of 75-ohm 
N connectors which were marked with bright red paint. Woe to the junior 
engineer who coupled the 50-ohm and 75-ohm version, which would bend the 
center spring fingers on the female connector apart permanently.

One can also kill a female N connector by mating it with a male PL-259. 
I have not done this myself, but I knew someone who did this twice on 
his fancy new antenna analyzer and wondering why everything was such a 
poor match. :-)

[1] https://www.showmecables.com/n-male-crimp-connector-lmr-400-belden-9913

--- Zach
N0ZGO
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From vk2pet at internode.on.net  Sat Jul 25 22:23:24 2020
From: vk2pet at internode.on.net (Pete (Vk2pet))
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 08:23:24 +1000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Modernized/Efficient Voting [was: Ballots?]
In-Reply-To: <1058086622.7118128.1595702767915@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1058086622.7118128.1595702767915@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0F1E8269-94F6-4AED-B0F7-053283B98C6E@internode.on.net>

Hi all.

Unfortunately I think my vote will be missed. I still haven?t received my voting paper. It takes over a month for mail from the USA to reach Australia. Then to post it back it just as long. 

There needs to be a system where overseas members can vote & with out being hostage to the snail mail system. 

73

Pete
Vk2pet 




> On 26 Jul 2020, at 04:46, Ev Tupis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?The wisdom of the crowd is coming into focus.  -Ev, W2EV
> 
> 
> Doug Faunt N6TQS wrote: 
> Print, sign, scan, email should be an acceptable solution.
> 73, Doug
> 
> 
> Jean Marc Momple <jean.marc.momple at gmail.com> worte:
> 
> Therefore, I strongly suggest that electronic vote be put in place or at
> least the ballots should be sent trough e-mail and scan sign copy of the
> duly filled document be valid for far away members.
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From glennmaillist at bellsouth.net  Sat Jul 25 22:36:52 2020
From: glennmaillist at bellsouth.net (Glenn Little WB4UIV)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 18:36:52 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Telling the difference between 50-ohm and 75-ohm N
 connectors
In-Reply-To: <1372946446.7154108.1595715336276@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <b82d080d-7997-f26d-ca00-80f6719f4d48@pobox.com>
	<1372946446.7154108.1595715336276@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <dc0d0883-b3cd-cf56-da7c-612af32657b7@bellsouth.net>

The center pin for 50 Ohm and 75 Ohm BNC are the same.
The difference in impedance is determine by the dielectric.
If you look at a 50 Ohm BNC connector you see dielectric around the 
center pin for the female and around the inside perimeter for the male.
The 75 Ohm BNC is missing this dielectric.

It is very easy to see the difference if you know what to look for.

The Type N connector impedance is determined by the diameter of the 
center pin.
The 75 Ohm connector had a smaller diameter center pin than does the 50 
Ohm connector.
To insert a 50 Ohm male Type N connector into a 75 Ohm female will 
destroy the female center pin.
To insert a 75 Ohm male type N connector into a 50 Ohm male may not do 
any damage, but the connection will be very unreliable.

73
Glenn
WB4UIV
Retired TV Chief Engineer

On 7/25/2020 6:15 PM, GEO Badger via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Same with the 75??? BNC/M connector.
> ---
>   Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side
> 73 de W3AB/GEO
>
>   http://www.w3ab.org
>
> You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out".
>
>      On Saturday, July 25, 2020, 11:52:48 AM PDT, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>   
>   
> I just ran across this tidbit[1]:
>
>> Q: How can I tell the difference between a 50 and 75 Ohm N connector?
>> A: You can tell the difference by the center pin. A 50 Ohm connector has a pointed pin. A 75 Ohm has a rounded pin.
> I've always looked at the center conductor to shield (not ferrule)
> distance to make sure I had a 50-ohm version. I don't have any 75-ohm
> versions lying about the shack. Can anyone else confirm this?
>
> I recall, back in my RF engineer days, that we had a whole box of 75-ohm
> N connectors which were marked with bright red paint. Woe to the junior
> engineer who coupled the 50-ohm and 75-ohm version, which would bend the
> center spring fingers on the female connector apart permanently.
>
> One can also kill a female N connector by mating it with a male PL-259.
> I have not done this myself, but I knew someone who did this twice on
> his fancy new antenna analyzer and wondering why everything was such a
> poor match. :-)
>
> [1] https://www.showmecables.com/n-male-crimp-connector-lmr-400-belden-9913
>
> --- Zach
> N0ZGO
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>    
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glenn Little                ARRL Technical Specialist   QCWA  LM 28417
Amateur Callsign:  WB4UIV            wb4uiv at arrl.net    AMSAT LM 2178
QTH:  Goose Creek, SC USA (EM92xx)  USSVI LM   NRA LM   SBE ARRL TAPR
"It is not the class of license that the Amateur holds but the class
of the Amateur that holds the license"


From brennanprice at verizon.net  Sat Jul 25 22:48:29 2020
From: brennanprice at verizon.net (Brennan Price)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 22:48:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] To repeat . . . again . . .
References: <402696188.6042066.1595717309143.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <402696188.6042066.1595717309143@mail.yahoo.com>

Accounting for performance standards of international first class and domestic presorted standard delivery, correctly addressed ballots will not be considered lost in post until August 12.
Regarding the format of the election: the bylaws require a mailed ballot, but not necessarily a mailed return. I would have liked to have provided an electronic return option, but that would have incurred costs and restrictions on candidate statement availability. These issues raised concern among the board and officers across the perceived idealogical divide.?
Accordingly, this election is being conducted by post. Post not infrequently involves waiting. That's why two months are allowed for the return time.?
Members' understanding of the finality of the timing and method of the election is appreciated.?
73 de Brennan N4QX

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From mat_62 at charter.net  Sat Jul 25 21:12:06 2020
From: mat_62 at charter.net (Michael Tondee)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 17:12:06 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] FM Satellite HT Night Proposal
Message-ID: <f9849b93-c04f-9f05-04d5-a8b6bf2926d0@charter.net>

Seeing this post from Koos talking about an HT with full duplex capabilities makes me wonder how many of you are trying to work these birds without it. I know there are not many full duplex HT's out there that work as well as the ones we used to have but you really are shooting yourself in the foot from the get go if you don't pursue some type of full duplex solution, even if it's two HT's. FM sat night or not, it really should not be that hard to work an FM sat with a 5 watt handheld and a directional antenna. The key is hearing yourself and making sure you actually have the birds "attention". Anyone who tells you that you don't need full duplex to work the sats is doing you a disservice. Sat work of any sort is going to be tough if you go into it with the equivalent measure of " tying one hand behind your back" Just sayin...
73,
Michael, W4HIJ

Message: 1 Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 11:12:19 +0200
From: Koos van den Hout<koos at idefix.net>
To:amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellite HT Night Proposal
Message-ID:<20200725091219.3hp4sxfiwjg3ahts at idefix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Quoting Walter Holmes via AMSAT-BB who wrote on Sat 2020-07-25 at 00:49:

> Any idea what the chances would be of having something like 1 night a week or month, on ONE of the FM birds, that could be reserved for HT access only?
>
> My thinking on this would be a great way for people to test out their portable or limited satellite stations with a great deal less collisions against all the other much stronger stations.
>
> I have heard from plenty of people that would like to try a temporary or portable station on the birds, but we all know that?s not even a remote possibility unless your on super early in the morning or late at night.

As it happens I was trying a new radio for a portable setup last evening
(I bought a KG-UV1K to get full-duplex capabilities).

On a not-to-high pass yesterday evening (max 21 degrees elevation with lots
of buildings around) I did hear AO-92 and could understand some of the
callsigns, but could not get in at all. Mister Ollaaaa was also active on
some occassions. I will try again on a higher pass.

My plan is to bring it along on an upcoming holiday, which will be in a
somewhat rare grid. But since it's a holiday and I'm not sure when a pass
will be at a usable time, I'm not going to announce it as an activation. I
may just make a few contacts.

So I'm the 'target audience' for your idea, and I really think it's a good
idea.

Koos PE4KH


From walterh at k5wh.net  Sat Jul 25 23:00:12 2020
From: walterh at k5wh.net (walterh at k5wh.net)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 18:00:12 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] FM Satellite HT Night Proposal
In-Reply-To: <fc7375a7-9f75-f6f1-ef39-0dea0a050122@arrl.net>
References: <026901d66247$5ce10860$16a31920$@k5wh.net>	<CAEwXZzv5jC_Psa8zQYbOuvVdCCbMeLBTYDrUqGHnQUCgRxRn=g@mail.gmail.com>
	<fc7375a7-9f75-f6f1-ef39-0dea0a050122@arrl.net>
Message-ID: <01ed01d662d7$5b7986b0$126c9410$@k5wh.net>

Very valid points indeed Bruce. Definitely a little planning would be required.

Lucky for us, communication is something we are very blessed with these days, and for that, I think is the easiest part.

Ie..  We have the Amsat Tuesday night net, The Wednesday night DMR/YSF net, Dstar reflector, Twitter, Facebook, and even the Amsat website, to further augment the Amsat BB.

Very true there would still be a few missed, but after a short time the word would propagate, as we could even talk it up further on the linear satellites to help encourage even more participation.

The word got out pretty fast about the AO-92 L-band mode changes each week. ?

I suspect the hardest part would be in deciding which satellite we could use for something like this.

No doubt that AO-91 and AO-92 may not be the best choice due to the extreme popularity there, but perhaps AO-27 or SO-50 could be a good option. Or maybe even PO-101.

For our contacts in this period, it could be good practice to give your callsign with "HT Night" or some similar designation as we do for other special events to help let others know of the type of operation being used, and I would expect to get a lot of questions from those not aware of what is happening to join in, make a contact even, and learn what it's all about.

I very much believe it would be a bad thing to tell non-HT users they are not allowed, as we should ever prevent inclusion of others, but just better recommended to use portable or limited operating environments.

And certainly, it may take a few nights for the word to spread throughout the community, but I feel very confident in the great spirit of Amsat and the amateur population to help pull it off.

It's been great to hear from many others about the support of an idea like this, hopefully that's an indication of real interest that might grow into something.

All the best,
Walter/K5WH

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Bruce via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2020 4:50 PM
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellite HT Night Proposal

This is a great idea. However, have you thought about how you would let all satellite operators know? The amsat-bb only reaches so many. Twitter and FaceBook reach some of the same but still not all the operators. 
Then you have operators that are not members of AMSAT, the amsat-bb, Twitter and FaceBook. If you heard them on the satellite that one day, would you be telling them this day is for HT's only? They may not be AMSAT members, they use an online tracking program and have no idea of the new rules other than there is a satellite passing over and I am going to work someone. Or, it was their only day off that week. What if someone actually forgot that today is HT day and was operating with 500 watts (just saying, there are 1kw linears for VHF) from home which by the way is a total waste of electricity and against the FCC rules. I still have my 170 watt VHF and 100 watt UHF linears from AO-10/AO-13 days sitting on the shelf.

You can see how this would be nearly impossible to notify everyone. A good example is AMSAT Field Day. It is a 24 hour period. For some 10 years we do not allow contacts on FM satellites beyond 1 per satellite. 
The reason is to allow space for those trying to make their ARRL satellite bonus points enough time. You can still make all the contacts you want on the FM satellites but we will only score 1 per satellite towards AMSAT Field Day. As expected several reported multiple contacts on an FM satellite and their score was adjusted. Field Day rules are written up in the Journal, on the AMSAT website, in ANS and various other locations. Yet, there are mistakes and they make multiple contacts. Sometimes the extra contact is unavoidable. You work your first contact and because your signal was so good, someone heard you and calls you. Instead of leaving them in the dust, you answer their call and give them their bonus points. You just cannot submit it for your AMSAT Field Day score.

This is the type of problem I think you would have if you were to try and make one day an HT day. Being a great idea to have a low power day it would be hard to let everyone know. Any suggestions on the notification process?

I think some of the frustration of new operators is not really having an HT day, it would be the thinning of the crowds. Satellites have become very popular in recent years and low cost HT's have made entry into working them a lot easier. With any FM single channel repeater, when you have two people trying to use it, it is a cake walk. When you have 100 operators across the country all trying to get in, there is still only two that are going to make a contact. I have experienced the issue, I roved with an HT and Arrow and I too had problems getting in. The easiest contact for us in South Texas is when a satellite is ascending from the South and we are one of the first in the states to be in the window. Make a contact and done before the rest of the U.S. is in the window. Same for those in the North when there is a descending pass. 
Sometimes you have to make the satellite location work in your favor. It also works when you are the last in the window towards LOS. Or, for left and right coast only passes there is less of the U.S. in the window. 
These are natural thinning of the operators due to the satellite's position.

73...bruce

On 7/25/2020 3:43 PM, Doug Daniels via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> I am brand new to Satellites, and just made my first Q with my two 
> HTs. I will never have the facilities to have anything more extensive 
> than HTs and a Arrow/Elk type antenna. This type of agreement would be 
> incredibly beneficial to me and those like me.
>
> Great idea, thanks.
>
> 73,
> Doug, K1RDD
>
> On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 2:00 AM Walter Holmes via AMSAT-BB < 
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> A little food for thought:
>>
>>
>>
>> Any idea what the chances would be of having something like 1 night a 
>> week or month, on ONE of the FM birds, that could be reserved for HT access only?
>>
>>

>>
>> My thinking on this would be a great way for people to test out their 
>> portable or limited satellite stations with a great deal less 
>> collisions against all the other much stronger stations.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have heard from plenty of people that would like to try a temporary 
>> or portable station on the birds, but we all know that?s not even a 
>> remote possibility unless your on super early in the morning or late at night.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ie..  it would be great to see how many people could test and build 
>> their skills to operate with an HT and an arrow or something, kinda 
>> like the old days. ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Just dreaming out-loud. ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Walter/K5WH
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available 
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. 
>> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect 
>> the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: 
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>


-- 

Bruce Paige, KK5DO
                      
AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
AMSAT Board Member 2016-2020
   
ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
           
Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT* Also live streaming MP3 at http://www.amsatnet.com Podcast at http://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes
               
Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News http://www.arrl.org

AMSAT on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/amsat


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From kb7wsd at gmail.com  Sat Jul 25 23:25:24 2020
From: kb7wsd at gmail.com (Grant Hopper)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 16:25:24 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] FM Satellite HT Night Proposal
In-Reply-To: <fc7375a7-9f75-f6f1-ef39-0dea0a050122@arrl.net>
References: <026901d66247$5ce10860$16a31920$@k5wh.net>
	<CAEwXZzv5jC_Psa8zQYbOuvVdCCbMeLBTYDrUqGHnQUCgRxRn=g@mail.gmail.com>
	<fc7375a7-9f75-f6f1-ef39-0dea0a050122@arrl.net>
Message-ID: <CAKzuJgX13feb7KWxLUzVPgc7gHJsVW_dangfXmo1dyQ_HoY8zQ@mail.gmail.com>

Bruce, et al,

I appreciate the thought you put into the challenges that the proposal's
implementation would face as far as obtaining full compliance, but the
logical mistake is to perceive this as an all-or-nothing situation,
ie.either we achieve notification of all possible users, or we shouldn't
implement the idea.  I think we'd all agree that's not a reasonable
standard.  In fact, I'd suggest that a reasonable effort to put the word
out is all that is necessary and appropriate.

Just because communication of the policy would be difficult certainly does
not equate to not implementing the policy.  After all, we have all sorts of
laws all around the world and we don't get perfect notification (or
compliance) there either, but the laws are none the less implemented.
Discretion in enforcement becomes part of that approach and solution.

We certainly already do that... we have people trying out satellites for
the first time on a regular basis and they certainly don't know the best
practices or policies, not to mention the rules.  In fact you cite these
very things as happening today and that is exactly why it would be just
fine to implement an idea like this.  We wouldn't be facing anything new in
terms of on-the-air occurrences.  And just because we couldn't guarantee
perfect outcomes 100% of the time is certainly no reason to reject the
idea.  The fact that we are able to add new ideas, practices, change rules,
and do all sorts of other stuff on a regular basis and to do so without
huge issues is the reason this idea SHOULD be implemented.

This is a hobby that boasts of an extraordinary ability to not only
communicate in an array of ways, but adaptability that few other pursuits
can claim.  I'm confident that we (as a hobby) could easily accommodate and
adapt to working with an idea like Walter proposed.

It certainly would encourage a lot more people to operate (for instance,
one of the clubs I belong to has had in the last year, two presentations on
operating satellites and during Q&A the following came up: the challenge of
getting through when other stations are running more power and the sense of
hopelessness caused people to set aside the gear and stop trying.)

73,
Grant Hopper
KB7WSD

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 2:54 PM Bruce via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> This is a great idea. However, have you thought about how you would let
> all satellite operators know? The amsat-bb only reaches so many. Twitter
> and FaceBook reach some of the same but still not all the operators.
> Then you have operators that are not members of AMSAT, the amsat-bb,
> Twitter and FaceBook. If you heard them on the satellite that one day,
> would you be telling them this day is for HT's only? They may not be
> AMSAT members, they use an online tracking program and have no idea of
> the new rules other than there is a satellite passing over and I am
> going to work someone. Or, it was their only day off that week. What if
> someone actually forgot that today is HT day and was operating with 500
> watts (just saying, there are 1kw linears for VHF) from home which by
> the way is a total waste of electricity and against the FCC rules. I
> still have my 170 watt VHF and 100 watt UHF linears from AO-10/AO-13
> days sitting on the shelf.
>
> You can see how this would be nearly impossible to notify everyone. A
> good example is AMSAT Field Day. It is a 24 hour period. For some 10
> years we do not allow contacts on FM satellites beyond 1 per satellite.
> The reason is to allow space for those trying to make their ARRL
> satellite bonus points enough time. You can still make all the contacts
> you want on the FM satellites but we will only score 1 per satellite
> towards AMSAT Field Day. As expected several reported multiple contacts
> on an FM satellite and their score was adjusted. Field Day rules are
> written up in the Journal, on the AMSAT website, in ANS and various
> other locations. Yet, there are mistakes and they make multiple
> contacts. Sometimes the extra contact is unavoidable. You work your
> first contact and because your signal was so good, someone heard you and
> calls you. Instead of leaving them in the dust, you answer their call
> and give them their bonus points. You just cannot submit it for your
> AMSAT Field Day score.
>
> This is the type of problem I think you would have if you were to try
> and make one day an HT day. Being a great idea to have a low power day
> it would be hard to let everyone know. Any suggestions on the
> notification process?
>
> I think some of the frustration of new operators is not really having an
> HT day, it would be the thinning of the crowds. Satellites have become
> very popular in recent years and low cost HT's have made entry into
> working them a lot easier. With any FM single channel repeater, when you
> have two people trying to use it, it is a cake walk. When you have 100
> operators across the country all trying to get in, there is still only
> two that are going to make a contact. I have experienced the issue, I
> roved with an HT and Arrow and I too had problems getting in. The
> easiest contact for us in South Texas is when a satellite is ascending
> from the South and we are one of the first in the states to be in the
> window. Make a contact and done before the rest of the U.S. is in the
> window. Same for those in the North when there is a descending pass.
> Sometimes you have to make the satellite location work in your favor. It
> also works when you are the last in the window towards LOS. Or, for left
> and right coast only passes there is less of the U.S. in the window.
> These are natural thinning of the operators due to the satellite's
> position.
>
> 73...bruce
>
> On 7/25/2020 3:43 PM, Doug Daniels via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > I am brand new to Satellites, and just made my first Q with my two HTs. I
> > will never have the facilities to have anything more extensive than HTs
> and
> > a Arrow/Elk type antenna. This type of agreement would be incredibly
> > beneficial to me and those like me.
> >
> > Great idea, thanks.
> >
> > 73,
> > Doug, K1RDD
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 2:00 AM Walter Holmes via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> >> A little food for thought:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Any idea what the chances would be of having something like 1 night a
> week
> >> or month, on ONE of the FM birds, that could be reserved for HT access
> only?
> >>
> >>
>
> >>
> >> My thinking on this would be a great way for people to test out their
> >> portable or limited satellite stations with a great deal less collisions
> >> against all the other much stronger stations.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I have heard from plenty of people that would like to try a temporary or
> >> portable station on the birds, but we all know that?s not even a remote
> >> possibility unless your on super early in the morning or late at night.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ie..  it would be great to see how many people could test and build
> their
> >> skills to operate with an HT and an arrow or something, kinda like the
> old
> >> days. ?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Just dreaming out-loud. ?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Walter/K5WH
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> >> expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> >> AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
>
> Bruce Paige, KK5DO
>
> AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
> AMSAT Board Member 2016-2020
>
> ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
>
> Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT*
> Also live streaming MP3 at http://www.amsatnet.com
> Podcast at http://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes
>
> Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News
> http://www.arrl.org
>
> AMSAT on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/amsat
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc  Sat Jul 25 23:29:58 2020
From: wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc (Burns Fisher)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 19:29:58 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Modernized/Efficient Voting [was: Ballots?]
In-Reply-To: <0F1E8269-94F6-4AED-B0F7-053283B98C6E@internode.on.net>
References: <1058086622.7118128.1595702767915@mail.yahoo.com>
	<0F1E8269-94F6-4AED-B0F7-053283B98C6E@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <CABX7KxXr6LFgJnbSFzWWjtuFuu8NQsEZr+dAKcbw3GM5nzm34Q@mail.gmail.com>

Just a note to say that I agree that a more modern election method would be
good.  Reading the bylaws, the dates for nominations, latest mailing of
ballots, and closing of voting is fixed. The secretary has some discretion
in conducting the election, but at least some changes may require a bylaws
amendment (depending on how you interpret "written" and "mailed").   That
can be done by two thirds of the board.

I also note that right now, the bylaws specify dates that give at least one
month between nomination and mailing, two months between latest mailing
date and latest return date.  It does seem to me that if we could
streamline and shorten the process it would be way better for all concerned.

73,

Burns WB1FJ


On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 6:36 PM Pete (Vk2pet) via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Hi all.
>
> Unfortunately I think my vote will be missed. I still haven?t received my
> voting paper. It takes over a month for mail from the USA to reach
> Australia. Then to post it back it just as long.
>
> There needs to be a system where overseas members can vote & with out
> being hostage to the snail mail system.
>
> 73
>
> Pete
> Vk2pet
>
>
>
>
> > On 26 Jul 2020, at 04:46, Ev Tupis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > ?The wisdom of the crowd is coming into focus.  -Ev, W2EV
> >
> >
> > Doug Faunt N6TQS wrote:
> > Print, sign, scan, email should be an acceptable solution.
> > 73, Doug
> >
> >
> > Jean Marc Momple <jean.marc.momple at gmail.com> worte:
> >
> > Therefore, I strongly suggest that electronic vote be put in place or at
> > least the ballots should be sent trough e-mail and scan sign copy of the
> > duly filled document be valid for far away members.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From n8hm at arrl.net  Sun Jul 26 00:00:06 2020
From: n8hm at arrl.net (Paul Stoetzer)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 17:00:06 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] ANS-208 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletins
Message-ID: <CABzOSOq0PQodLmCPKkbjkGbezFXbVJjbz37ouyHxtXnJZ=mYPw@mail.gmail.com>

AMSAT NEWS SERVICE
ANS-208

The AMSAT News Service bulletins are a free, weekly news and infor-
mation service of AMSAT, The Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation. ANS
publishes news related to Amateur Radio in Space including reports on
the activities of a worldwide group of Amateur Radio operators who
share an active interest in designing, building, launching and commun-
icating through analog and digital Amateur Radio satellites.

The news feed on http://www.amsat.org publishes news of Amateur
Radio in Space as soon as our volunteers can post it.

Please send any amateur satellite news or reports to:
ans-editor at amsat.org.

You can sign up for free e-mail delivery of the AMSAT News Service
Bulletins via the ANS List; to join this list see:
http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/ans



In this edition:

* AMSAT Partners with UMaine's WiSe-Net Lab to Develop Maine's First
  Small Satellite
* AMSAT-UK Announces OSCAR Satellite QSO Party
* JARL Announces FO-29 Operation Schedule for August
* Christopher Brault, KD8YVJ, Named 2020 Newsline Young Ham of the
  Year
* Hamfests, Conventions, Maker Faires, and Other Events
* Upcoming Satellite Operations
* Upcoming ARISS Contacts
* Satellite Shorts from All Over


SB SAT @ AMSAT $ANS-208.01
ANS-208 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletins

AMSAT News Service Bulletin 208.01
 From AMSAT HQ KENSINGTON, MD.
DATE July 26, 2020
To All RADIO AMATEURS
BID: $ANS-208.01

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

         Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, the AMSAT office
    is closed until further notice. For details, please visit
  https://www.amsat.org/amsat-office-closed-until-further-notice/

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

AMSAT Partners with UMaine's WiSe-Net Lab to Develop Maine's First
Small Satellite

The University of Maine Wireless Sensing Laboratory (WiSe-Net Lab) and
AMSAT have signed an agreement to collaborate on building and
operating MESAT1, Maine?s first small satellite, to be launched in
space in the next three years.

MESAT1 is Maine's first CubeSat ? one of 18 small research satellites
selected by NASA to carry auxiliary payloads into space between 2021?
23. It is part of NASA?s CubeSat Launch Initiative that provides
opportunities for nanosatellite science and technology payloads built
by universities, schools and nonprofit organizations to ride share on
space launches.

UMaine?s WiSe-Net Lab, established in 2005, is involved in aerospace
and space research. The lab was founded by Ali Abedi, KB1VJV,
assistant vice president for research and director of the Center for
Undergraduate Research. Lab researchers have developed the first
wireless sensor network for NASA?s lunar habitation project and
launched wireless leak-detection to the International Space station.

The MESAT1 initiative will enable K?12 students and teachers in Maine
to access space data for educational and research purposes, and
encourage students to pursue STEM careers.

AMSAT will provide a Linear Transponder Module (LTM) along with
integration and operational support for MESAT1. AMSAT's LTM
incorporates a VHF/UHF telemetry beacon, command receiver, and linear
transponder. It will be available for radio amateurs worldwide to use
when the satellite is commissioned.

AMSAT President Clayton Coleman, W5PFG, celebrated the announcement.
"This is a great day for AMSAT and UMaine's Wise-Net Lab. This
partnership is a true win-win for both education and the amateur radio
community. The collaborative effort under AMSAT's engineering and
operations teams has once again succeeded to bring another opportunity
to AMSAT."

[ANS thanks AMSAT and UMaine's WiSe-Net Lab for the above
information]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

AMSAT-UK Announces OSCAR Satellite QSO Party

The objective of the AMSAT-UK OSCAR Satellite QSO Party is to
encourage all radio amateurs around the world to get on the air and
make contacts via satellites during northern hemisphere summer. We
would like to attract both seasoned die-hard operators as well as all
newcomers who are just getting involved.

While points are given per QSO this isn?t a contest, but we hope it
will encourage people to get on the air and enjoy the excitement of
making contacts through satellites.

The AMSAT-UK OSCAR Satellite QSO Party will be supported by an online
leaderboard which will be available from the start of the event which
runs from 00:00 GMT on 1st August until 23:59 GMT on 22nd September.

Prizes will be awarded to those from first to thirteenth place and
are open to both AMSAT-UK and non-members around the world.

? First Place ?250 Amazon Voucher
? Second Place ?150 Amazon Voucher
? Third Place ?50 Amazon Voucher
? Fourth to Thirteenth Place One Year AMSAT-UK Membership

Download the rules for the AMSAT-UK OSCAR QSO Party at
https://tinyurl.com/OSCAR-QSO-Party

Leaderboard https://leaderboard.amsat-uk.org/

[ANS thanks AMSAT-UK for the above information]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

AMSAT's GOLF Program is about getting back to higher orbits, and it
all begins with GOLF-TEE ? a technology demonstrator for deployable
solar panels, propulsion, and attitude control. Come along for the
ride. The journey will be worth it!

                  https://tinyurl.com/ANS-GOLF

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

JARL Announces FO-29 Operation Schedule for August

FO-29 will be activated by ground command at the following times in
August 2020. The satellite will remain active after each command
until the undervoltage controller shuts the satellite off to prevent
overdischarge of the now-24 year old NiCd batteries.

 1 03:40 05:25 13:55
 2 02:45 04:30
 8 02:30 04:15 14:30
 9 03:25 05:05 13:35
10 02:25 04:10
15 03:05 04:50
16 02:10 03:55 14:10
22 01:55 03:40 13:55
23 02:45 04:30 13:00
29 02:30 04:15 14:30
30 03:20 05:05

[ANS thanks JARL and JA1OGZ for the above information]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

           Purchase AMSAT Gear on our Zazzle storefront.
          25% of the purchase price of each product goes
            towards Keeping Amateur Radio in Space
              https://www.zazzle.com/amsat_gear

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

Christopher Brault, KD8YVJ, Named 2020 Newsline Young Ham of the Year

Christopher Brault, KD8YVJ, of suburban Cincinnati, has been selected
as the 2020 Bill Pasternak WA6ITF Memorial Amateur Radio Newsline
Young Ham of the Year.

Chris, 18, is the son of Jocelyn Brault, KD8VRX, and Kimberly Brault,
of Liberty Township, Ohio. Chris earned his Technician class license
in 2014 and passed his General ticket about a year later. He said his
father was his guide into amateur radio. Chris recalled car trips,
watching and listening to his father operating mobile. "We would be on
a road trip somewhere," Chris said. "We'd be talking to people along
the way, it seemed like fun." Chris is a member of the Dayton Amateur
Radio Association, the West Chester Amateur Radio Association, and the
Ohio Valley Experimenters Club.

An honor student entering his senior year at St. Xavier High School,
Cincinnati, Chris helped restart the school's amateur radio club
(W8GYH). He has earned recognition for his many achievements in
promoting amateur radio including the Hiram Percy Maxim Award (2015);
the Ohio Section Special Recognition Award (2016); and the Great Lakes
Division Young Amateur of the Year (2017). In 2017, Chris was invited
to join the Dave Kalter Youth DX Adventure to Costa Rica where he
worked the stations with Bryant Rascoll, KG5HVO, the 2018 YHOTY award
winner, and Austin Harris, WA8CCS, in making more than 3,100 contacts.

Chris also helped in the planning of an Amateur Radio on the
International Space Station (ARISS) contact in 2016 and spoke with
Astronaut Kate Rubins KG5FYJ while she flew overhead. Chris is social
media director for the Youth on the Air organization and is a
contesting mentor for youth who are involved in its programs. He is
also a tour guide for the National Voice of America Museum of
Broadcasting in West Chester, Ohio, and actively assists in mentoring
young operators at its amateur radio station, WC8VOA. Chris also works
annually with his father on putting youth on the air in the annual
Jamboree on the Air in October. He has also been a presenter at the
Dayton Youth Forum (2017) and Orlando Hamcation (2017). Chris recently
started working a part-time job at the Butler County Regional Airport
near his home and was invited to take flying lessons. He is pursuing
his private pilot's license and is exploring a career in aviation as a
commercial pilot.

The YHOTY award is traditionally presented during the Huntsville
Hamfest in August in the Von Braun Center, Huntsville AL. However,
because of the Covid-19 pandemic, the hamfest was cancelled. Chris
recently received a certificate of recognition presented in West
Chester, Ohio by Amateur Radio Newsline's Don Wilbanks, AE5DW. The
Young Ham of the Year Award was inaugurated by William Pasternak,
WA6ITF, in 1986. Upon his passing in 2015, Bill's name was added to
the award as a memorial to his commitment to recognizing the
accomplishments of young people to the amateur radio service.

Amateur Radio Newsline, CQ Magazine, and Yaesu USA are primary
sponsors of the award, along with Heil Sound Ltd. and Radiowavz
Antenna Company.

[ANS thanks the CQ Newsroom and Amateur Radio Newsline for the above
information]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Hamfests, Conventions, Maker Faires, and Other Events

Want to see AMSAT in action or learn more about amateur radio in
space?

AMSAT Ambassadors provide presentations, demonstrate communicating
through amateur satellites, and host information tables at club
meetings, hamfests, conventions, maker faires, and other events.

Due to COVID-19, many hamfest and events around the United States have
been canceled or postponed. While we make every effort to ensure the
information contained below is correct, there may be some that we
missed.

No events are currently scheduled. We wish all of you safekeeping and
hope to be at a hamfest near you soon.

[ANS thanks Robert Bankston, KE4AL, AMSAT Vice President - User
Services, for the above information]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

    Need new satellite antennas? Purchase Arrows, Alaskan Arrows,
   and M2 LEO-Packs from the AMSAT Store. When you purchase through
          AMSAT, a portion of the proceeds goes towards
                 Keeping Amateur Radio in Space.
           https://amsat.org/product-category/hardware/

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

Upcoming Satellite Operations

Note: all @ signs refer to Twitter usernames.

Quick Hits:

Do you need Hawaii? NH7WN on AO-7 Most days. Reach out for a schedule

How about IL38 + IL39 Lanzarote, Canary Islands? Check out @EA4NF for
details.

FN44/54, 7/22 ? 7/31, KQ2RP: Just like last time, FM only.

EN20/30 Line, July 28-31, @KX9X : Sean is moving quickly towards his
VUCC/R award by heading out again for two more grids. Watch his
Twitter for details.

DM97/98 & EM08/09: Super Rover @AD0DX is heading out for the Kansas
QSO party and N0E. More to come.

Schedule to come: FN11+21 then 12+22 grid lines, @NS3L Steve is
heading out to these lines. Schedule to come.

@WY7AA is heading out again!!!

Mon 7/20 SSB and FM passes from DN67/68
Every pass from about 16:00 ? 04:00

Tues 7/21 SSB and FM passes from DN57/58.
Every pass from about 16:00 ? 04:00

Wed. 7/22 Travel day no sats

Thurs 7/23 SSB and FM passes from DN55/56.
Every pass from about 16:00 ? 04:00

Fri 7/24 SSB and FM passes from DN65/66.
Every pass from about 16:00 ? 04:00

Watch his QRZ page for details and updates.

@Kx9x is heading out on an EN rove to end all EN roves!!!!! The KX9X
#MidwestMegaRove is ON!

Itinerary for the #KX9X #MidwestMegaRove:

7/28 EN40, 41 (Casual)
7/29 EN32/42 grid line (IA)
7/30 EN20/21/30/31 intersection. If turned away, 20/30 & 21/31 lines
7/31 EM38/39 (MO)
8/1 EM48/49 (IL, QRT 1700z) QRT by 2200z daily.

@AD0HJ, is heading out again for the South Dakota Super Rove Part I
Rove Map: Grids DN74, DN75, DN84, DN85, DN94, DN95, EN04, EN05, EN14,
EN15, EN16, and EN17. July 31st through August 7th. Pass times at
https://twitter.com/AD0HJ/status/1284669314637930499

Then as if that isn?t enough, there is more: South Dakota Super Rove
Part II Rove Map: Grids DN73, DN82, DN83, DN92, DN93, EN02, EN03,
EN12, EN24, and EN25. August 17th through August 21st.

Then Mitch is going for Part 2 of the South Dakota Super Rove:
EN24/EN25,DN73/DN83, DN82/DN92, DN93/EN03, EN02/EN12. Part 2 details
at https://twitter.com/AD0HJ/status/1285747202367852544

Please submit any additions or corrections to ke0pbr at gmail.com

[ANS thanks Paul Overn, KE0PBR, for the above information]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Upcoming ARISS Contacts

Quick list of scheduled contacts and events:

American School of Rio de Janeiro, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, Multi-point
telebridge via ON4ISS

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be OR4ISS
The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR
Contact is go for: Thu 2020-07-30 16:41:42 UTC 78 deg

Watch for live simulcast starting about 10 minutes before AOS at:
https://youtu.be/MSyfzEHYwrE

[ANS thanks Charlie Sufana, AJ9N, ARISS Operations, for the above
information]

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

   AMSAT, along with our ARISS partners, is developing an amateur
   radio package, including two-way communication capability, to
           be carried on-board Gateway in lunar orbit.

   Support AMSAT's projects today at https://www.amsat.org/donate/

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

Satellite Shorts From All Over

+ Congratulations to Hector Martinez, W5CBF, on earning AMSAT
GridMaster Award #13. The AMSAT GridMaster Award is available for
amateur radio operators who confirm two-way QSOs with all 488 grids
in the continental United States. Hector's last needed grid was DL98.
AMSAT President Clayton Coleman, W5PFG, made the 12 hour round-trip
drive to activate the grid for Hector. (via KK5DO and W5CBF)

+ Ballots for the 2020 AMSAT Board of Directors election were mailed
on July 14th via presorted standard mail to US addresses and via first
class mail to overseas addresses to all members in good standing as of
July 1st. Members desiring a replacement ballot package should contact
AMSAT Secretary Brennan Price, N4QX, at brennanprice at verizon.net no
earlier than August 12th. AMSAT members may log on to the membership
portal at launch.amsat.org to verify that their address was correct as
of July 1st. (via N4QX)

+ The La Mesa Courier has published an article about Kerry Banke,
N6IZW, and his involvement in developing the ARISS Multi-Voltage Power
Supply. https://lamesacourier.com/space-radio/

+ The IARU has coordinated a frequency for AMSAT Nepal's SanoSat-1
PocketQube. The satellite is planned for launch Q4 2020.
http://www.amsatuk.me.uk/iaru/finished_detail.php?serialnum=732


+ The IARU has also completed coordination for the Tevel Mission.
This series of 8 identical CubeSats will be able to be commanded to
operate as V/u FM transponders with a downlink of 436.400 MHz and an
uplink of 145.970 MHz.
http://www.amsatuk.me.uk/iaru/finished_detail.php?serialnum=744


+ Peter Goodhall, 2M0SQL, has released Pass Recorder 2.0. This
software is designed to automate the recording of satellite passes
and interfaces with SatPC32. Changes in version 2.0 include support
for SatPC32ISS, improved memory usage, and slight UI improvements.
Download the software at https://www.2m0sql.com/pass-recorder/

+ JARL reluctantly announced the cancellation of Tokyo Ham Fair 2020
scheduled on October 31st and November 1st, as JARL cannot guarantee
the safety and perfect prevention from COVID-19 infection, even if we
take all possible preventive measures. The schedule of Tokyo Ham Fair
2021 is yet to be fixed, but we will announce it when we fix the venue
and dates. (via JARL and JAMSAT)

+ After HO-107's return last week, the satellite has again gone silent
with the last telemetry received on July 20th at 00:00:22 UTC. Please
continue to track the satellite in FoxTelem so additional telemetry
can be gathered if the satellite begins transmitting again.

+ All issues of The AMSAT Journal dating back to 2014 are now
available to AMSAT members on AMSAT's new membership portal. The
1969-2013 archive will be added at a later date. All editions of
AMSAT's Symposium Proceedings are also available for members. If
you're a current AMSAT member, get logged on today. If you are not yet
a member, consider joining today at https://launch.amsat.org/

+ The 2020 edition of AMSAT?s Getting Started with Amateur Satellites
is now available on the AMSAT store. A perennial favorite, Getting
Started is updated every year with the latest amateur satellite
information, and is the premier primer of satellite operation. The
book is presented in DRM-free PDF format, in full color, and covers
all aspects of making your first contacts on a ham radio satellite.
The digital download is available for $15 at
https://tinyurl.com/2020GettingStarted

+ The AMSAT Folding at home team continues to climb the rankings. Now
in the top 800 of all teams at the time of this writing, the team has
grown to 48 members with 67 active CPUs within the past 50 days and
includes 14 members in the top 100,000 of all users. Alex Free,
N7AGF, is our top contributor with nearly 170,000,000 points credited
to AMSAT's team. For more information about the Folding at home
project and how you can contribute to scientific research, including
the fight against COVID-19, see https://foldingathome.org/. AMSAT's
team number is 69710: https://stats.foldingathome.org/team/69710

---------------------------------------------------------------------

/EX

In addition to regular membership, AMSAT offers membership in the
President's Club. Members of the President's Club, as sustaining
donors to AMSAT Project Funds, will be eligible to receive addi-
tional benefits. President's Club donations may be made at
https://tinyurl.com/ANS-PresClub.

Primary and secondary school students are eligible for membership
at one-half the standard yearly rate. Post-secondary school students
enrolled in at least half time status shall be eligible for the stu-
dent rate for a maximum of 6 post-secondary years in this status.

Join AMSAT today at https://launch.amsat.org/

73 and remember to help Keep Amateur Radio in Space,

This week's ANS Editor,

Paul Stoetzer, N8HM
n8hm at amsat dot org

From w2ev at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 26 00:38:35 2020
From: w2ev at yahoo.com (Ev Tupis)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 00:38:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Modernized/Efficient Voting [was: Ballots?]
In-Reply-To: <CABX7KxXr6LFgJnbSFzWWjtuFuu8NQsEZr+dAKcbw3GM5nzm34Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1058086622.7118128.1595702767915@mail.yahoo.com>
	<0F1E8269-94F6-4AED-B0F7-053283B98C6E@internode.on.net>
	<CABX7KxXr6LFgJnbSFzWWjtuFuu8NQsEZr+dAKcbw3GM5nzm34Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <536520061.7188966.1595723915153@mail.yahoo.com>

[Combining threads]

Hi Brennan,
Of course, the safest route it to do what has always been done.? You've done an admirable job of assuring that this years elections process added no unnecessary drama while still meeting the goal.? Bravo!

The comments on the list about the election process are not directed as criticisms.? They are simply the "voice of the customer" with the hope that those in charge can take that input and use the time between this year and next year to reexamine "what has always been done" in a more modern light.

Kind regards,
Ev, W2EV

In a seperate thread, Brennan Price said...

Accounting for performance standards of international first class and domestic presorted standard delivery, correctly addressed ballots will not be considered lost in post until August 12.

Regarding the format of the election: the bylaws require a mailed ballot, but not necessarily a mailed return. I would have liked to have provided an electronic return option, but that would have incurred costs and restrictions on candidate statement availability. These issues raised concern among the board and officers across the perceived idealogical divide.?

Accordingly, this election is being conducted by post. Post not infrequently involves waiting. That's why two months are allowed for the return time.?

Members' understanding of the finality of the timing and method of the election is appreciated.?

73 de Brennan N4QX

 On Saturday, July 25, 2020, 7:35:26 PM EDT, Burns Fisher via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 

Just a note to say that I agree that a more modern election method would be
good.? Reading the bylaws, the dates for nominations, latest mailing of
ballots, and closing of voting is fixed. The secretary has some discretion
in conducting the election, but at least some changes may require a bylaws
amendment (depending on how you interpret "written" and "mailed").? That
can be done by two thirds of the board.

I also note that right now, the bylaws specify dates that give at least one
month between nomination and mailing, two months between latest mailing
date and latest return date.? It does seem to me that if we could
streamline and shorten the process it would be way better for all concerned.

73,

Burns WB1FJ


On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 6:36 PM Pete (Vk2pet) via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Hi all.
>
> Unfortunately I think my vote will be missed. I still haven?t received my
> voting paper. It takes over a month for mail from the USA to reach
> Australia. Then to post it back it just as long.
>
> There needs to be a system where overseas members can vote & with out
> being hostage to the snail mail system.
>
> 73
>
> Pete
> Vk2pet
>
>
>
>
> > On 26 Jul 2020, at 04:46, Ev Tupis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > ?The wisdom of the crowd is coming into focus.? -Ev, W2EV
> >
> >
> > Doug Faunt N6TQS wrote:
> > Print, sign, scan, email should be an acceptable solution.
> > 73, Doug
> >
> >
> > Jean Marc Momple <jean.marc.momple at gmail.com> worte:
> >
> > Therefore, I strongly suggest that electronic vote be put in place or at
> > least the ballots should be sent trough e-mail and scan sign copy of the
> > duly filled document be valid for far away members.

From yono_adisoemarta at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 26 00:46:18 2020
From: yono_adisoemarta at yahoo.com (Yono Adisoemarta)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 07:46:18 +0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] FM Satellite HT Night Proposal
In-Reply-To: <CAKzuJgX13feb7KWxLUzVPgc7gHJsVW_dangfXmo1dyQ_HoY8zQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKzuJgX13feb7KWxLUzVPgc7gHJsVW_dangfXmo1dyQ_HoY8zQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0809C4C0-19E7-4782-900B-5B81049C86A6@yahoo.com>

Over here in Indonesia we put the ?HT only? note on the weekly IO-86 schedule as announced by LAPAN thru their fb/ig/twitter channel.

And reminders thru postings in various WhatsApp groups.

73 de Yono - YD0NXX 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 26, 2020, at 6:31 AM, Grant Hopper via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?Bruce, et al,
> 
> I appreciate the thought you put into the challenges that the proposal's
> implementation would face as far as obtaining full compliance, but the
> logical mistake is to perceive this as an all-or-nothing situation,
> ie.either we achieve notification of all possible users, or we shouldn't
> implement the idea.  I think we'd all agree that's not a reasonable
> standard.  In fact, I'd suggest that a reasonable effort to put the word
> out is all that is necessary and appropriate.
> 
> Just because communication of the policy would be difficult certainly does
> not equate to not implementing the policy.  After all, we have all sorts of
> laws all around the world and we don't get perfect notification (or
> compliance) there either, but the laws are none the less implemented.
> Discretion in enforcement becomes part of that approach and solution.
> 
> We certainly already do that... we have people trying out satellites for
> the first time on a regular basis and they certainly don't know the best
> practices or policies, not to mention the rules.  In fact you cite these
> very things as happening today and that is exactly why it would be just
> fine to implement an idea like this.  We wouldn't be facing anything new in
> terms of on-the-air occurrences.  And just because we couldn't guarantee
> perfect outcomes 100% of the time is certainly no reason to reject the
> idea.  The fact that we are able to add new ideas, practices, change rules,
> and do all sorts of other stuff on a regular basis and to do so without
> huge issues is the reason this idea SHOULD be implemented.
> 
> This is a hobby that boasts of an extraordinary ability to not only
> communicate in an array of ways, but adaptability that few other pursuits
> can claim.  I'm confident that we (as a hobby) could easily accommodate and
> adapt to working with an idea like Walter proposed.
> 
> It certainly would encourage a lot more people to operate (for instance,
> one of the clubs I belong to has had in the last year, two presentations on
> operating satellites and during Q&A the following came up: the challenge of
> getting through when other stations are running more power and the sense of
> hopelessness caused people to set aside the gear and stop trying.)
> 
> 73,
> Grant Hopper
> KB7WSD
> 
>> On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 2:54 PM Bruce via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> This is a great idea. However, have you thought about how you would let
>> all satellite operators know? The amsat-bb only reaches so many. Twitter
>> and FaceBook reach some of the same but still not all the operators.
>> Then you have operators that are not members of AMSAT, the amsat-bb,
>> Twitter and FaceBook. If you heard them on the satellite that one day,
>> would you be telling them this day is for HT's only? They may not be
>> AMSAT members, they use an online tracking program and have no idea of
>> the new rules other than there is a satellite passing over and I am
>> going to work someone. Or, it was their only day off that week. What if
>> someone actually forgot that today is HT day and was operating with 500
>> watts (just saying, there are 1kw linears for VHF) from home which by
>> the way is a total waste of electricity and against the FCC rules. I
>> still have my 170 watt VHF and 100 watt UHF linears from AO-10/AO-13
>> days sitting on the shelf.
>> 
>> You can see how this would be nearly impossible to notify everyone. A
>> good example is AMSAT Field Day. It is a 24 hour period. For some 10
>> years we do not allow contacts on FM satellites beyond 1 per satellite.
>> The reason is to allow space for those trying to make their ARRL
>> satellite bonus points enough time. You can still make all the contacts
>> you want on the FM satellites but we will only score 1 per satellite
>> towards AMSAT Field Day. As expected several reported multiple contacts
>> on an FM satellite and their score was adjusted. Field Day rules are
>> written up in the Journal, on the AMSAT website, in ANS and various
>> other locations. Yet, there are mistakes and they make multiple
>> contacts. Sometimes the extra contact is unavoidable. You work your
>> first contact and because your signal was so good, someone heard you and
>> calls you. Instead of leaving them in the dust, you answer their call
>> and give them their bonus points. You just cannot submit it for your
>> AMSAT Field Day score.
>> 
>> This is the type of problem I think you would have if you were to try
>> and make one day an HT day. Being a great idea to have a low power day
>> it would be hard to let everyone know. Any suggestions on the
>> notification process?
>> 
>> I think some of the frustration of new operators is not really having an
>> HT day, it would be the thinning of the crowds. Satellites have become
>> very popular in recent years and low cost HT's have made entry into
>> working them a lot easier. With any FM single channel repeater, when you
>> have two people trying to use it, it is a cake walk. When you have 100
>> operators across the country all trying to get in, there is still only
>> two that are going to make a contact. I have experienced the issue, I
>> roved with an HT and Arrow and I too had problems getting in. The
>> easiest contact for us in South Texas is when a satellite is ascending
>> from the South and we are one of the first in the states to be in the
>> window. Make a contact and done before the rest of the U.S. is in the
>> window. Same for those in the North when there is a descending pass.
>> Sometimes you have to make the satellite location work in your favor. It
>> also works when you are the last in the window towards LOS. Or, for left
>> and right coast only passes there is less of the U.S. in the window.
>> These are natural thinning of the operators due to the satellite's
>> position.
>> 
>> 73...bruce
>> 
>>> On 7/25/2020 3:43 PM, Doug Daniels via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>>> I am brand new to Satellites, and just made my first Q with my two HTs. I
>>> will never have the facilities to have anything more extensive than HTs
>> and
>>> a Arrow/Elk type antenna. This type of agreement would be incredibly
>>> beneficial to me and those like me.
>>> 
>>> Great idea, thanks.
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Doug, K1RDD
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 2:00 AM Walter Holmes via AMSAT-BB <
>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> A little food for thought:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Any idea what the chances would be of having something like 1 night a
>> week
>>>> or month, on ONE of the FM birds, that could be reserved for HT access
>> only?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> 
>>>> My thinking on this would be a great way for people to test out their
>>>> portable or limited satellite stations with a great deal less collisions
>>>> against all the other much stronger stations.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I have heard from plenty of people that would like to try a temporary or
>>>> portable station on the birds, but we all know that?s not even a remote
>>>> possibility unless your on super early in the morning or late at night.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Ie..  it would be great to see how many people could test and build
>> their
>>>> skills to operate with an HT and an arrow or something, kinda like the
>> old
>>>> days. ?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Just dreaming out-loud. ?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Walter/K5WH
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions
>>>> expressed
>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Bruce Paige, KK5DO
>> 
>> AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
>> AMSAT Board Member 2016-2020
>> 
>> ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
>> 
>> Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT*
>> Also live streaming MP3 at http://www.amsatnet.com
>> Podcast at http://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes
>> 
>> Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News
>> http://www.arrl.org
>> 
>> AMSAT on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/amsat
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From royldean at gmail.com  Sun Jul 26 01:06:35 2020
From: royldean at gmail.com (Roy Dean)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 21:06:35 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] FM Satellite HT Night Proposal
Message-ID: <CADGPg2twEtb2UtrRCJAej0KdNaf_2-MHcFLrTP3Ugpj+9DXZ+Q@mail.gmail.com>

>
> No doubt that AO-91 and AO-92 may not be the best choice due to the
> extreme popularity there, but perhaps AO-27 or SO-50 could be a good
> option. Or maybe even PO-101.


I would think that if AMSAT is setting the rules (or guidelines), then it
should be AMSAT that hosts the event.   Therefore I would suggest that ONLY
AO-91 and AO-92 be considered.   As for getting the word out, I think most
of us will listen to a control operator who states "HT use only until XX:XX
UTC" (along with a proper callsign ID, of course).  There are always those
knuckleheads who try to make QSOs against the control operator's wishes,
but I'm sure "cancel culture" will take care of them..... (whether or not
it's justified is another topic of discussion).

Remember experimenter's wednesday?  Maybe "experimenter's every-other
wednesday"....

--Roy
K3RLD

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Sun Jul 26 02:26:53 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 21:26:53 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] FM Satellite HT Night Proposal
In-Reply-To: <0809C4C0-19E7-4782-900B-5B81049C86A6@yahoo.com>
References: <CAKzuJgX13feb7KWxLUzVPgc7gHJsVW_dangfXmo1dyQ_HoY8zQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<0809C4C0-19E7-4782-900B-5B81049C86A6@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <d6a9a6ad-6c5c-883e-f3ca-89e170376df8@pobox.com>

On 07/25/20 19:46, Yono Adisoemarta via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Over here in Indonesia we put the ?HT only? note on the weekly IO-86 schedule as announced by LAPAN thru their fb/ig/twitter channel.
> 
> And reminders thru postings in various WhatsApp groups.

It seems that we're relying more and more on Internet-driven 
communications to schedule our satellite operations, rather than using 
our amateur radio resources.

Shouldn't we be getting bulletins through the satellite itself, perhaps 
on the telemetry channel? I recall this being done on a previous satellite.

Perhaps this is why we're losing spectrum allocations?

Food for thought.

--- Zach
N0ZGO


From chibill110 at gmail.com  Sun Jul 26 03:22:27 2020
From: chibill110 at gmail.com (Bill Gaylord)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 23:22:27 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Historical Data download for FOX-1A?
Message-ID: <CALS66Fvnfa9KatA09iwK5+fduCtrpLCjE7UNbCTXtO9Y=Ppv2g@mail.gmail.com>

Is it possible to get some sort of download for the Historical Telemetry
downlinked by Fox-1A? It would be interesting to study its life in space.

73 KD9KCK

From n0jy at amsat.org  Sun Jul 26 06:02:25 2020
From: n0jy at amsat.org (Jerry Buxton)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 01:02:25 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Historical Data download for FOX-1A?
In-Reply-To: <CALS66Fvnfa9KatA09iwK5+fduCtrpLCjE7UNbCTXtO9Y=Ppv2g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALS66Fvnfa9KatA09iwK5+fduCtrpLCjE7UNbCTXtO9Y=Ppv2g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <27cacc59-b616-dee8-528d-19e4a7da4fe9@amsat.org>

Bill,

You can download all of the data for any particular satellite with
FoxTelem, using the "fetch server data" menu item.
I would suggest setting up/switching to a separate FoxTelem data
directory for that so the info doesn't overwrite your own captured data
and can be left alone to play with.

Your analysis is of interest to engineering and many others I am sure,
once you have studied the data and come to some conclusions or
hypotheses you may want to consider presenting it in an AMSAT Journal
article.

Jerry Buxton, N?JY

On 7/25/2020 22:22, Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Is it possible to get some sort of download for the Historical Telemetry
> downlinked by Fox-1A? It would be interesting to study its life in space.


From dtabor52 at icloud.com  Sat Jul 25 23:32:40 2020
From: dtabor52 at icloud.com (Douglas B Tabor)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 17:32:40 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] Ballots?
Message-ID: <58C57E9A-67EE-4CE1-A2CC-A5B9C26B6835@icloud.com>

Pony Express is slow out in the wild woolies of Wyoming. Have yet to see
a ballot in my mail. And the Wells-Fargo wagon has been by a couple of
times since I saw the first ballot received message on the BB.

73,

Doug, N6UA


Douglas Tabor
dtabor52 at icloud.com


From clintbradford at mac.com  Sun Jul 26 16:23:16 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 09:23:16 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] So CA ARISS member developes ISS device
Message-ID: <A96816FF-6DB5-4754-BE05-8F187E98F67E@mac.com>


https://lamesacourier.com/space-radio/ <https://lamesacourier.com/space-radio/>


Clint Bradford K6LCS

From clintbradford at mac.com  Sun Jul 26 16:38:40 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 09:38:40 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Easy and FUN Antenna Projects
Message-ID: <E3DCA24F-E28B-42C0-A7A3-673C46F29B0E@mac.com>

Got an old umbrella in the front closet? Some barbed wire pieces behind the shed?

Work the "easy" FM voice satellites with your HT and one of the antenna projects 
posted on the ANTENNAS page at ...

http://www.work-sat.com

Clint K6LCS


From clintbradford at mac.com  Sun Jul 26 19:23:36 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 12:23:36 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO Junk?
Message-ID: <7EFB4B46-AFE9-4847-8ED8-6CFDBBB7A6D3@mac.com>

>> ? Dude, why assume it was junk???

Well, I never imagined being to see anything worthwhile HEO-wise 
with the naked eye ? But you are correct: It sure could have been 
something viable ?

Clint K6LCS

From chibill110 at gmail.com  Sun Jul 26 20:35:19 2020
From: chibill110 at gmail.com (Bill Gaylord)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 16:35:19 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Historical Data download for FOX-1A?
In-Reply-To: <27cacc59-b616-dee8-528d-19e4a7da4fe9@amsat.org>
References: <CALS66Fvnfa9KatA09iwK5+fduCtrpLCjE7UNbCTXtO9Y=Ppv2g@mail.gmail.com>
	<27cacc59-b616-dee8-528d-19e4a7da4fe9@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <CALS66Fu-aBTKPcFbtqrBjygzHWKEuhRktWRzO8izBkZThuiFtw@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a document on how the CSV files are formatted? (I can't seem to
find any information on what columns are what.)

KD9KCK

On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 2:07 AM Jerry Buxton via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Bill,
>
> You can download all of the data for any particular satellite with
> FoxTelem, using the "fetch server data" menu item.
> I would suggest setting up/switching to a separate FoxTelem data
> directory for that so the info doesn't overwrite your own captured data
> and can be left alone to play with.
>
> Your analysis is of interest to engineering and many others I am sure,
> once you have studied the data and come to some conclusions or
> hypotheses you may want to consider presenting it in an AMSAT Journal
> article.
>
> Jerry Buxton, N?JY
>
> On 7/25/2020 22:22, Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > Is it possible to get some sort of download for the Historical Telemetry
> > downlinked by Fox-1A? It would be interesting to study its life in space.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From royldean at gmail.com  Sun Jul 26 21:13:12 2020
From: royldean at gmail.com (Roy Dean)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 17:13:12 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Easy and FUN Antenna Projects
Message-ID: <CADGPg2tknW319nKrXtn+A765H6tr1t52cbns-hnSiFHQOpNrkA@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Got an old umbrella in the front closet? Some barbed wire pieces behind the shed?
>
> Work the "easy" FM voice satellites with your HT and one of the antenna projects
> posted on the ANTENNAS page at ...
> http://www.work-sat.com
>
> Clint K6LCS
>
>
Clint, do you really need to spam the internet with advertisements for your
website?

https://forums.qrz.com/index.php?threads/easy-and-fun-antenna-projects-for-the-satellites.717142/
https://forums.qrz.com/index.php?threads/easy-and-fun-antenna-projects-for-the-fm-voice-satellites.717143/
https://www.eham.net/community/smf/index.php/topic,130404.0.html
https://www.eham.net/community/smf/index.php/topic,130405.0.html

--Roy
K3RLD

From clintbradford at mac.com  Sun Jul 26 22:01:53 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 15:01:53 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Easy and FUN Antenna Projects
Message-ID: <D01A8C5F-310D-46F5-858A-E8B8915B22AD@mac.com>

Roy Dean:

You need a little education.

?Spam? is irrelevant or inappropriate messages sent indiscriminately to all audiences.

?Advertising? is the activity or profession of producing ads for commercial products or services.

What do I offer on my Web site? Information. Free-of-charge. No product nor service that 
benefits me personally.

SO ? What I did - post ANTENNA PROJECTS to groups entitled ?antennas,? ?satellites,? and 
?DIY Projects? is really quite an appropriate use of the ?Net. No spam. Target audiences.

Clint Bradford K6LCS

>> ...Clint, do you really need to spam the internet with advertisements for your website?


From wr0honline at gmail.com  Sun Jul 26 22:50:00 2020
From: wr0honline at gmail.com (Rick Harrington)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 17:50:00 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 301
In-Reply-To: <mailman.8904.1595798007.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.8904.1595798007.6204.amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <CAKgYzuMr2OA77hbcw7RLj1a9Q8kTSkGK2wRxhHRsS7LBOgnRAg@mail.gmail.com>

Just a couple of cents worth....IMO, nothing worthwhile will be
accomplished toward welcoming new ops to satellite operation until the
malicious QRM on the FM birds is stopped by someone with the ability and
motivation to do so.

73,
Rick WR0H


>>> On 7/25/2020 3:43 PM, Doug Daniels via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> >>> I am brand new to Satellites, and just made my first Q with my two
> HTs. I
> >>> will never have the facilities to have anything more extensive than HTs
> >> and
> >>> a Arrow/Elk type antenna. This type of agreement would be incredibly
> >>> beneficial to me and those like me.
> >>>
> >>> Great idea, thanks.
> >>>
> >>> 73,
> >>> Doug, K1RDD
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 2:00 AM Walter Holmes via AMSAT-BB <
> >>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> A little food for thought:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Any idea what the chances would be of having something like 1 night a
> >> week
> >>>> or month, on ONE of the FM birds, that could be reserved for HT access
> >> only?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>> My thinking on this would be a great way for people to test out their
> >>>> portable or limited satellite stations with a great deal less
> collisions
> >>>> against all the other much stronger stations.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I have heard from plenty of people that would like to try a temporary
> or
> >>>> portable station on the birds, but we all know that?s not even a
> remote
> >>>> possibility unless your on super early in the morning or late at
> night.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Ie..  it would be great to see how many people could test and build
> >> their
> >>>> skills to operate with an HT and an arrow or something, kinda like the
> >> old
> >>>> days. ?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Just dreaming out-loud. ?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Walter/K5WH
>
>

From wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc  Sun Jul 26 23:18:45 2020
From: wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc (Burns Fisher)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 19:18:45 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Historical Data download for FOX-1A?
In-Reply-To: <CALS66Fu-aBTKPcFbtqrBjygzHWKEuhRktWRzO8izBkZThuiFtw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALS66Fvnfa9KatA09iwK5+fduCtrpLCjE7UNbCTXtO9Y=Ppv2g@mail.gmail.com>
	<27cacc59-b616-dee8-528d-19e4a7da4fe9@amsat.org>
	<CALS66Fu-aBTKPcFbtqrBjygzHWKEuhRktWRzO8izBkZThuiFtw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABX7KxWhrk64yzNMgsVfjrsrkSJaTi=7_P7PUzeDNvdwdP0oUg@mail.gmail.com>

What CSV files are you getting from FoxTelem.  As I recall they all have a
first line that has the name of the field.   Or do you mean
translation from downlinked units to standard units (like volts, ma,
degrees, etc)?  I'm not sure there is a doc, but there probably should be.
Let us know what you need to know.

Burns WB1FJ

On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 4:38 PM Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Is there a document on how the CSV files are formatted? (I can't seem to
> find any information on what columns are what.)
>
> KD9KCK
>
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 2:07 AM Jerry Buxton via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > Bill,
> >
> > You can download all of the data for any particular satellite with
> > FoxTelem, using the "fetch server data" menu item.
> > I would suggest setting up/switching to a separate FoxTelem data
> > directory for that so the info doesn't overwrite your own captured data
> > and can be left alone to play with.
> >
> > Your analysis is of interest to engineering and many others I am sure,
> > once you have studied the data and come to some conclusions or
> > hypotheses you may want to consider presenting it in an AMSAT Journal
> > article.
> >
> > Jerry Buxton, N?JY
> >
> > On 7/25/2020 22:22, Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > > Is it possible to get some sort of download for the Historical
> Telemetry
> > > downlinked by Fox-1A? It would be interesting to study its life in
> space.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From chibill110 at gmail.com  Sun Jul 26 23:30:34 2020
From: chibill110 at gmail.com (Bill Gaylord)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 19:30:34 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Historical Data download for FOX-1A?
In-Reply-To: <CABX7KxWhrk64yzNMgsVfjrsrkSJaTi=7_P7PUzeDNvdwdP0oUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALS66Fvnfa9KatA09iwK5+fduCtrpLCjE7UNbCTXtO9Y=Ppv2g@mail.gmail.com>
	<27cacc59-b616-dee8-528d-19e4a7da4fe9@amsat.org>
	<CALS66Fu-aBTKPcFbtqrBjygzHWKEuhRktWRzO8izBkZThuiFtw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABX7KxWhrk64yzNMgsVfjrsrkSJaTi=7_P7PUzeDNvdwdP0oUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALS66Fvs2raEb32oWzkMm9gbs8jVWbo9nw8b3ES1PLr5yqU8GA@mail.gmail.com>

Actually they are .log files but there the data in the FOXDB folder. None
of them have headers for the columns. But now that I think about it they
are probably the same as the columns in the tables when you actually run
FoxTelem.

KD9KCK

On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 7:18 PM Burns Fisher <wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc> wrote:

> What CSV files are you getting from FoxTelem.  As I recall they all have a
> first line that has the name of the field.   Or do you mean
> translation from downlinked units to standard units (like volts, ma,
> degrees, etc)?  I'm not sure there is a doc, but there probably should be.
> Let us know what you need to know.
>
> Burns WB1FJ
>
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 4:38 PM Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> Is there a document on how the CSV files are formatted? (I can't seem to
>> find any information on what columns are what.)
>>
>> KD9KCK
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 2:07 AM Jerry Buxton via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Bill,
>> >
>> > You can download all of the data for any particular satellite with
>> > FoxTelem, using the "fetch server data" menu item.
>> > I would suggest setting up/switching to a separate FoxTelem data
>> > directory for that so the info doesn't overwrite your own captured data
>> > and can be left alone to play with.
>> >
>> > Your analysis is of interest to engineering and many others I am sure,
>> > once you have studied the data and come to some conclusions or
>> > hypotheses you may want to consider presenting it in an AMSAT Journal
>> > article.
>> >
>> > Jerry Buxton, N?JY
>> >
>> > On 7/25/2020 22:22, Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>> > > Is it possible to get some sort of download for the Historical
>> Telemetry
>> > > downlinked by Fox-1A? It would be interesting to study its life in
>> space.
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions
>> > expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> > AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>

From wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc  Sun Jul 26 23:35:25 2020
From: wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc (Burns Fisher)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 19:35:25 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Historical Data download for FOX-1A?
In-Reply-To: <CALS66Fvs2raEb32oWzkMm9gbs8jVWbo9nw8b3ES1PLr5yqU8GA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALS66Fvnfa9KatA09iwK5+fduCtrpLCjE7UNbCTXtO9Y=Ppv2g@mail.gmail.com>
	<27cacc59-b616-dee8-528d-19e4a7da4fe9@amsat.org>
	<CALS66Fu-aBTKPcFbtqrBjygzHWKEuhRktWRzO8izBkZThuiFtw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABX7KxWhrk64yzNMgsVfjrsrkSJaTi=7_P7PUzeDNvdwdP0oUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALS66Fvs2raEb32oWzkMm9gbs8jVWbo9nw8b3ES1PLr5yqU8GA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABX7KxWm43783xCCt6sUM-6=zczkLtaBzixsAempt+ty_LPBvA@mail.gmail.com>

I know you can export CSV files from any graph that you make.  There is a
button on the graph.  I hear what you are saying about the FOXDB contents.
I'm not sure if you can export the full monty, but I suspect the files in
FOXDB  may differ from satellite to satellite.  I will ask the developer
and let you know.

Burns WB1FJ

On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 7:30 PM Bill Gaylord <chibill110 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Actually they are .log files but there the data in the FOXDB folder. None
> of them have headers for the columns. But now that I think about it they
> are probably the same as the columns in the tables when you actually run
> FoxTelem.
>
> KD9KCK
>
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 7:18 PM Burns Fisher <wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc> wrote:
>
>> What CSV files are you getting from FoxTelem.  As I recall they all have
>> a first line that has the name of the field.   Or do you mean
>> translation from downlinked units to standard units (like volts, ma,
>> degrees, etc)?  I'm not sure there is a doc, but there probably should be.
>> Let us know what you need to know.
>>
>> Burns WB1FJ
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 4:38 PM Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Is there a document on how the CSV files are formatted? (I can't seem to
>>> find any information on what columns are what.)
>>>
>>> KD9KCK
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 2:07 AM Jerry Buxton via AMSAT-BB <
>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Bill,
>>> >
>>> > You can download all of the data for any particular satellite with
>>> > FoxTelem, using the "fetch server data" menu item.
>>> > I would suggest setting up/switching to a separate FoxTelem data
>>> > directory for that so the info doesn't overwrite your own captured data
>>> > and can be left alone to play with.
>>> >
>>> > Your analysis is of interest to engineering and many others I am sure,
>>> > once you have studied the data and come to some conclusions or
>>> > hypotheses you may want to consider presenting it in an AMSAT Journal
>>> > article.
>>> >
>>> > Jerry Buxton, N?JY
>>> >
>>> > On 7/25/2020 22:22, Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>>> > > Is it possible to get some sort of download for the Historical
>>> Telemetry
>>> > > downlinked by Fox-1A? It would be interesting to study its life in
>>> space.
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions
>>> > expressed
>>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>> of
>>> > AMSAT-NA.
>>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>

From g0kla at arrl.net  Mon Jul 27 00:37:36 2020
From: g0kla at arrl.net (Chris Thompson)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 20:37:36 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Historical Data download for FOX-1A?
In-Reply-To: <CABX7KxWhrk64yzNMgsVfjrsrkSJaTi=7_P7PUzeDNvdwdP0oUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALS66Fvnfa9KatA09iwK5+fduCtrpLCjE7UNbCTXtO9Y=Ppv2g@mail.gmail.com>
	<27cacc59-b616-dee8-528d-19e4a7da4fe9@amsat.org>
	<CALS66Fu-aBTKPcFbtqrBjygzHWKEuhRktWRzO8izBkZThuiFtw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABX7KxWhrk64yzNMgsVfjrsrkSJaTi=7_P7PUzeDNvdwdP0oUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJOf0+uQjWN5ZkVMxqHQY9eCfRBg4eRCk4ub3wKtsYgOwX3LwQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Bill,

You can download all of the data for AO-85 from this link:
http://amsat.org/tlm/ao85/serverlogs.tar.gz  That contains the raw data in
CSV format.  For Fox-1A the conversions are defined in the back of the
manual for FoxTelem.

As Jerry said, your best bet might be to use FoxTelem.  You can save the
data as a CSV file from any graph.  Even if it plots multiple channels.
That allows you to save converted data in human readable form and do
further analysis in another program.

I'm more than happy to walk you through how to do this and help extracting
or converting the data.  Let me know how I can help.

73
Chris

On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 8:26 PM Burns Fisher via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> What CSV files are you getting from FoxTelem.  As I recall they all have a
> first line that has the name of the field.   Or do you mean
> translation from downlinked units to standard units (like volts, ma,
> degrees, etc)?  I'm not sure there is a doc, but there probably should be.
> Let us know what you need to know.
>
> Burns WB1FJ
>
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 4:38 PM Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > Is there a document on how the CSV files are formatted? (I can't seem to
> > find any information on what columns are what.)
> >
> > KD9KCK
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 2:07 AM Jerry Buxton via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > You can download all of the data for any particular satellite with
> > > FoxTelem, using the "fetch server data" menu item.
> > > I would suggest setting up/switching to a separate FoxTelem data
> > > directory for that so the info doesn't overwrite your own captured data
> > > and can be left alone to play with.
> > >
> > > Your analysis is of interest to engineering and many others I am sure,
> > > once you have studied the data and come to some conclusions or
> > > hypotheses you may want to consider presenting it in an AMSAT Journal
> > > article.
> > >
> > > Jerry Buxton, N?JY
> > >
> > > On 7/25/2020 22:22, Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > > > Is it possible to get some sort of download for the Historical
> > Telemetry
> > > > downlinked by Fox-1A? It would be interesting to study its life in
> > space.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions
> > > expressed
> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
Chris E. Thompson
chrisethompson at gmail.com
g0kla at arrl.net

From wizardofzid at gmail.com  Mon Jul 27 01:06:44 2020
From: wizardofzid at gmail.com (Russ Kinner)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 18:06:44 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Coax failure
Message-ID: <om8cmtriugy6feihgtkuyouw.1595811919675@email.android.com>

Well, my shortcuts in installing my VHF/UHF antennas finally caught me.  I took the antenna down and it got away from me so the coax was kinked where it exited the house and the shield and center conductor opened.  Very nice peak in the TDR function in my Nano-VNA where the open happened.
New coax connectors on the way with the proper lightening connector so I can better protect the installation.  You take short cuts, you eventually pay.  So I'm stuck at 98 confirmed LotW for a few more days.  Even with 50 years licensed, sometimes you get a lesson dropping you down a notch or two.

Rusty. WA8ZID

From chibill110 at gmail.com  Mon Jul 27 01:09:15 2020
From: chibill110 at gmail.com (Bill Gaylord)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 20:09:15 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Historical Data download for FOX-1A?
In-Reply-To: <CAJOf0+uQjWN5ZkVMxqHQY9eCfRBg4eRCk4ub3wKtsYgOwX3LwQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALS66Fvnfa9KatA09iwK5+fduCtrpLCjE7UNbCTXtO9Y=Ppv2g@mail.gmail.com>
	<27cacc59-b616-dee8-528d-19e4a7da4fe9@amsat.org>
	<CALS66Fu-aBTKPcFbtqrBjygzHWKEuhRktWRzO8izBkZThuiFtw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABX7KxWhrk64yzNMgsVfjrsrkSJaTi=7_P7PUzeDNvdwdP0oUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJOf0+uQjWN5ZkVMxqHQY9eCfRBg4eRCk4ub3wKtsYgOwX3LwQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALS66Fu-Ea2i63w1HXJ2iz638CUZX74u2LKbDaVYKH+HtctB1g@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you very much! Not at my computer at the moment but i will take a
look in a bit.

Btw is there a way for FoxTelem to be told what time it is to allow to
process passes shortly after they occur? (I plan on trying to automate
pulling data from SatNOGS for the still operating Foxes.)



Also not totally related but any idea where i can look for old TLE for
Fox-1A. I normally go to SpaceTrack to get thay sort of stuff but because
Fox-1A doesnt exist there its not going to help much.

KD9KCK


On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 7:37 PM Chris Thompson <g0kla at arrl.net> wrote:

> Hi Bill,
>
> You can download all of the data for AO-85 from this link:
> http://amsat.org/tlm/ao85/serverlogs.tar.gz  That contains the raw data
> in CSV format.  For Fox-1A the conversions are defined in the back of the
> manual for FoxTelem.
>
> As Jerry said, your best bet might be to use FoxTelem.  You can save the
> data as a CSV file from any graph.  Even if it plots multiple channels.
> That allows you to save converted data in human readable form and do
> further analysis in another program.
>
> I'm more than happy to walk you through how to do this and help extracting
> or converting the data.  Let me know how I can help.
>
> 73
> Chris
>
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 8:26 PM Burns Fisher via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> What CSV files are you getting from FoxTelem.  As I recall they all have a
>> first line that has the name of the field.   Or do you mean
>> translation from downlinked units to standard units (like volts, ma,
>> degrees, etc)?  I'm not sure there is a doc, but there probably should be.
>> Let us know what you need to know.
>>
>> Burns WB1FJ
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 4:38 PM Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Is there a document on how the CSV files are formatted? (I can't seem to
>> > find any information on what columns are what.)
>> >
>> > KD9KCK
>> >
>> > On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 2:07 AM Jerry Buxton via AMSAT-BB <
>> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Bill,
>> > >
>> > > You can download all of the data for any particular satellite with
>> > > FoxTelem, using the "fetch server data" menu item.
>> > > I would suggest setting up/switching to a separate FoxTelem data
>> > > directory for that so the info doesn't overwrite your own captured
>> data
>> > > and can be left alone to play with.
>> > >
>> > > Your analysis is of interest to engineering and many others I am sure,
>> > > once you have studied the data and come to some conclusions or
>> > > hypotheses you may want to consider presenting it in an AMSAT Journal
>> > > article.
>> > >
>> > > Jerry Buxton, N?JY
>> > >
>> > > On 7/25/2020 22:22, Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>> > > > Is it possible to get some sort of download for the Historical
>> > Telemetry
>> > > > downlinked by Fox-1A? It would be interesting to study its life in
>> > space.
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> > Opinions
>> > > expressed
>> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of
>> > > AMSAT-NA.
>> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> > program!
>> > > Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions
>> > expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> > AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>
>
> --
> Chris E. Thompson
> chrisethompson at gmail.com
> g0kla at arrl.net
>

From marklhammond at gmail.com  Mon Jul 27 01:24:05 2020
From: marklhammond at gmail.com (Mark L. Hammond)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 21:24:05 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Historical Data download for FOX-1A?
In-Reply-To: <CALS66Fu-Ea2i63w1HXJ2iz638CUZX74u2LKbDaVYKH+HtctB1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALS66Fvnfa9KatA09iwK5+fduCtrpLCjE7UNbCTXtO9Y=Ppv2g@mail.gmail.com>
	<27cacc59-b616-dee8-528d-19e4a7da4fe9@amsat.org>
	<CALS66Fu-aBTKPcFbtqrBjygzHWKEuhRktWRzO8izBkZThuiFtw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABX7KxWhrk64yzNMgsVfjrsrkSJaTi=7_P7PUzeDNvdwdP0oUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJOf0+uQjWN5ZkVMxqHQY9eCfRBg4eRCk4ub3wKtsYgOwX3LwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALS66Fu-Ea2i63w1HXJ2iz638CUZX74u2LKbDaVYKH+HtctB1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPRXzyqTO0GJmg8va-B72K0yZ6M-vRnmfkJCZafDpQpwZ5tTJg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Bill, it?s aka AO-85 so pretty sure the Keps can still be gotten. Old or
new.

73,
Mark N8MH

On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 9:21 PM Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Thank you very much! Not at my computer at the moment but i will take a
> look in a bit.
>
> Btw is there a way for FoxTelem to be told what time it is to allow to
> process passes shortly after they occur? (I plan on trying to automate
> pulling data from SatNOGS for the still operating Foxes.)
>
>
>
> Also not totally related but any idea where i can look for old TLE for
> Fox-1A. I normally go to SpaceTrack to get thay sort of stuff but because
> Fox-1A doesnt exist there its not going to help much.
>
> KD9KCK
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 7:37 PM Chris Thompson <g0kla at arrl.net> wrote:
>
> > Hi Bill,
> >
> > You can download all of the data for AO-85 from this link:
> > http://amsat.org/tlm/ao85/serverlogs.tar.gz  That contains the raw data
> > in CSV format.  For Fox-1A the conversions are defined in the back of the
> > manual for FoxTelem.
> >
> > As Jerry said, your best bet might be to use FoxTelem.  You can save the
> > data as a CSV file from any graph.  Even if it plots multiple channels.
> > That allows you to save converted data in human readable form and do
> > further analysis in another program.
> >
> > I'm more than happy to walk you through how to do this and help
> extracting
> > or converting the data.  Let me know how I can help.
> >
> > 73
> > Chris
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 8:26 PM Burns Fisher via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> >> What CSV files are you getting from FoxTelem.  As I recall they all
> have a
> >> first line that has the name of the field.   Or do you mean
> >> translation from downlinked units to standard units (like volts, ma,
> >> degrees, etc)?  I'm not sure there is a doc, but there probably should
> be.
> >> Let us know what you need to know.
> >>
> >> Burns WB1FJ
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 4:38 PM Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB <
> >> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Is there a document on how the CSV files are formatted? (I can't seem
> to
> >> > find any information on what columns are what.)
> >> >
> >> > KD9KCK
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 2:07 AM Jerry Buxton via AMSAT-BB <
> >> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Bill,
> >> > >
> >> > > You can download all of the data for any particular satellite with
> >> > > FoxTelem, using the "fetch server data" menu item.
> >> > > I would suggest setting up/switching to a separate FoxTelem data
> >> > > directory for that so the info doesn't overwrite your own captured
> >> data
> >> > > and can be left alone to play with.
> >> > >
> >> > > Your analysis is of interest to engineering and many others I am
> sure,
> >> > > once you have studied the data and come to some conclusions or
> >> > > hypotheses you may want to consider presenting it in an AMSAT
> Journal
> >> > > article.
> >> > >
> >> > > Jerry Buxton, N?JY
> >> > >
> >> > > On 7/25/2020 22:22, Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> >> > > > Is it possible to get some sort of download for the Historical
> >> > Telemetry
> >> > > > downlinked by Fox-1A? It would be interesting to study its life in
> >> > space.
> >> > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> >> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> > Opinions
> >> > > expressed
> >> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views
> >> of
> >> > > AMSAT-NA.
> >> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >> > program!
> >> > > Subscription settings:
> >> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >> > >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions
> >> > expressed
> >> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> >> > AMSAT-NA.
> >> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >> program!
> >> > Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> >> AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Chris E. Thompson
> > chrisethompson at gmail.com
> > g0kla at arrl.net
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
-- 
Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
AMSAT Director and Command Station

From chibill110 at gmail.com  Mon Jul 27 01:34:32 2020
From: chibill110 at gmail.com (Bill Gaylord)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 20:34:32 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Historical Data download for FOX-1A?
In-Reply-To: <CAPRXzyqTO0GJmg8va-B72K0yZ6M-vRnmfkJCZafDpQpwZ5tTJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALS66Fvnfa9KatA09iwK5+fduCtrpLCjE7UNbCTXtO9Y=Ppv2g@mail.gmail.com>
	<27cacc59-b616-dee8-528d-19e4a7da4fe9@amsat.org>
	<CALS66Fu-aBTKPcFbtqrBjygzHWKEuhRktWRzO8izBkZThuiFtw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABX7KxWhrk64yzNMgsVfjrsrkSJaTi=7_P7PUzeDNvdwdP0oUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJOf0+uQjWN5ZkVMxqHQY9eCfRBg4eRCk4ub3wKtsYgOwX3LwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALS66Fu-Ea2i63w1HXJ2iz638CUZX74u2LKbDaVYKH+HtctB1g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPRXzyqTO0GJmg8va-B72K0yZ6M-vRnmfkJCZafDpQpwZ5tTJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALS66FsnvV_K4VpVhuW4pACVS6BtDXoigpOWYjKOjDdOYsZL5w@mail.gmail.com>

I looked it up by Norad ID. From what i know its TLE are opennly
distrobuted by space tracked because it went up with some military stuff.
Same reason it was never on CelesTrack.

KD9KCK

On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 8:24 PM Mark L. Hammond <marklhammond at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Bill, it?s aka AO-85 so pretty sure the Keps can still be gotten. Old
> or new.
>
> 73,
> Mark N8MH
>
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 9:21 PM Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> Thank you very much! Not at my computer at the moment but i will take a
>> look in a bit.
>>
>> Btw is there a way for FoxTelem to be told what time it is to allow to
>> process passes shortly after they occur? (I plan on trying to automate
>> pulling data from SatNOGS for the still operating Foxes.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Also not totally related but any idea where i can look for old TLE for
>> Fox-1A. I normally go to SpaceTrack to get thay sort of stuff but because
>> Fox-1A doesnt exist there its not going to help much.
>>
>> KD9KCK
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 7:37 PM Chris Thompson <g0kla at arrl.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Bill,
>> >
>> > You can download all of the data for AO-85 from this link:
>> > http://amsat.org/tlm/ao85/serverlogs.tar.gz  That contains the raw data
>> > in CSV format.  For Fox-1A the conversions are defined in the back of
>> the
>> > manual for FoxTelem.
>> >
>> > As Jerry said, your best bet might be to use FoxTelem.  You can save the
>> > data as a CSV file from any graph.  Even if it plots multiple channels.
>> > That allows you to save converted data in human readable form and do
>> > further analysis in another program.
>> >
>> > I'm more than happy to walk you through how to do this and help
>> extracting
>> > or converting the data.  Let me know how I can help.
>> >
>> > 73
>> > Chris
>> >
>> > On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 8:26 PM Burns Fisher via AMSAT-BB <
>> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> What CSV files are you getting from FoxTelem.  As I recall they all
>> have a
>> >> first line that has the name of the field.   Or do you mean
>> >> translation from downlinked units to standard units (like volts, ma,
>> >> degrees, etc)?  I'm not sure there is a doc, but there probably should
>> be.
>> >> Let us know what you need to know.
>> >>
>> >> Burns WB1FJ
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 4:38 PM Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB <
>> >> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Is there a document on how the CSV files are formatted? (I can't
>> seem to
>> >> > find any information on what columns are what.)
>> >> >
>> >> > KD9KCK
>> >> >
>> >> > On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 2:07 AM Jerry Buxton via AMSAT-BB <
>> >> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > Bill,
>> >> > >
>> >> > > You can download all of the data for any particular satellite with
>> >> > > FoxTelem, using the "fetch server data" menu item.
>> >> > > I would suggest setting up/switching to a separate FoxTelem data
>> >> > > directory for that so the info doesn't overwrite your own captured
>> >> data
>> >> > > and can be left alone to play with.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Your analysis is of interest to engineering and many others I am
>> sure,
>> >> > > once you have studied the data and come to some conclusions or
>> >> > > hypotheses you may want to consider presenting it in an AMSAT
>> Journal
>> >> > > article.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Jerry Buxton, N?JY
>> >> > >
>> >> > > On 7/25/2020 22:22, Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>> >> > > > Is it possible to get some sort of download for the Historical
>> >> > Telemetry
>> >> > > > downlinked by Fox-1A? It would be interesting to study its life
>> in
>> >> > space.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > _______________________________________________
>> >> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>> available
>> >> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> >> > Opinions
>> >> > > expressed
>> >> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>> views
>> >> of
>> >> > > AMSAT-NA.
>> >> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> >> > program!
>> >> > > Subscription settings:
>> >> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >> > >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>> available
>> >> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> >> Opinions
>> >> > expressed
>> >> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>> views of
>> >> > AMSAT-NA.
>> >> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> >> program!
>> >> > Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> >> Opinions expressed
>> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of
>> >> AMSAT-NA.
>> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Chris E. Thompson
>> > chrisethompson at gmail.com
>> > g0kla at arrl.net
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> --
> Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
> AMSAT Director and Command Station
>
>

From chibill110 at gmail.com  Mon Jul 27 02:05:28 2020
From: chibill110 at gmail.com (Bill Gaylord)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 21:05:28 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Historical Data download for FOX-1A?
In-Reply-To: <CAPRXzyqqZUHJ9URzMO9M8no_iMqH8rn+QfseyfRnT5v=wHVY6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALS66Fvnfa9KatA09iwK5+fduCtrpLCjE7UNbCTXtO9Y=Ppv2g@mail.gmail.com>
	<27cacc59-b616-dee8-528d-19e4a7da4fe9@amsat.org>
	<CALS66Fu-aBTKPcFbtqrBjygzHWKEuhRktWRzO8izBkZThuiFtw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABX7KxWhrk64yzNMgsVfjrsrkSJaTi=7_P7PUzeDNvdwdP0oUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJOf0+uQjWN5ZkVMxqHQY9eCfRBg4eRCk4ub3wKtsYgOwX3LwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALS66Fu-Ea2i63w1HXJ2iz638CUZX74u2LKbDaVYKH+HtctB1g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPRXzyqTO0GJmg8va-B72K0yZ6M-vRnmfkJCZafDpQpwZ5tTJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALS66FsnvV_K4VpVhuW4pACVS6BtDXoigpOWYjKOjDdOYsZL5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPRXzyqqZUHJ9URzMO9M8no_iMqH8rn+QfseyfRnT5v=wHVY6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALS66FsCLGFdEAn96J10S5vJDkEEnR78G0gqxZNUkiypH_yW2Q@mail.gmail.com>

I will look into that in a few minuetes and also take a look at the file
that Chris linked  (Finally got home, was up in Dowagiac,Michigan for the
weekend.)

KD9KCK

On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 8:43 PM Mark L. Hammond <marklhammond at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Oh I forgot! How about way back machine and nasabare.txt from AMSAT?
>
> Mark N8MH
>
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 9:34 PM Bill Gaylord <chibill110 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I looked it up by Norad ID. From what i know its TLE are opennly
>> distrobuted by space tracked because it went up with some military stuff.
>> Same reason it was never on CelesTrack.
>>
>> KD9KCK
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 8:24 PM Mark L. Hammond <marklhammond at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Bill, it?s aka AO-85 so pretty sure the Keps can still be gotten. Old
>>> or new.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Mark N8MH
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 9:21 PM Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB <
>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thank you very much! Not at my computer at the moment but i will take a
>>>> look in a bit.
>>>>
>>>> Btw is there a way for FoxTelem to be told what time it is to allow to
>>>> process passes shortly after they occur? (I plan on trying to automate
>>>> pulling data from SatNOGS for the still operating Foxes.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also not totally related but any idea where i can look for old TLE for
>>>> Fox-1A. I normally go to SpaceTrack to get thay sort of stuff but
>>>> because
>>>> Fox-1A doesnt exist there its not going to help much.
>>>>
>>>> KD9KCK
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 7:37 PM Chris Thompson <g0kla at arrl.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Hi Bill,
>>>> >
>>>> > You can download all of the data for AO-85 from this link:
>>>> > http://amsat.org/tlm/ao85/serverlogs.tar.gz  That contains the raw
>>>> data
>>>> > in CSV format.  For Fox-1A the conversions are defined in the back of
>>>> the
>>>> > manual for FoxTelem.
>>>> >
>>>> > As Jerry said, your best bet might be to use FoxTelem.  You can save
>>>> the
>>>> > data as a CSV file from any graph.  Even if it plots multiple
>>>> channels.
>>>> > That allows you to save converted data in human readable form and do
>>>> > further analysis in another program.
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm more than happy to walk you through how to do this and help
>>>> extracting
>>>> > or converting the data.  Let me know how I can help.
>>>> >
>>>> > 73
>>>> > Chris
>>>> >
>>>> > On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 8:26 PM Burns Fisher via AMSAT-BB <
>>>> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> What CSV files are you getting from FoxTelem.  As I recall they all
>>>> have a
>>>> >> first line that has the name of the field.   Or do you mean
>>>> >> translation from downlinked units to standard units (like volts, ma,
>>>> >> degrees, etc)?  I'm not sure there is a doc, but there probably
>>>> should be.
>>>> >> Let us know what you need to know.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Burns WB1FJ
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 4:38 PM Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB <
>>>> >> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > Is there a document on how the CSV files are formatted? (I can't
>>>> seem to
>>>> >> > find any information on what columns are what.)
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > KD9KCK
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 2:07 AM Jerry Buxton via AMSAT-BB <
>>>> >> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > > Bill,
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > > You can download all of the data for any particular satellite
>>>> with
>>>> >> > > FoxTelem, using the "fetch server data" menu item.
>>>> >> > > I would suggest setting up/switching to a separate FoxTelem data
>>>> >> > > directory for that so the info doesn't overwrite your own
>>>> captured
>>>> >> data
>>>> >> > > and can be left alone to play with.
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > > Your analysis is of interest to engineering and many others I am
>>>> sure,
>>>> >> > > once you have studied the data and come to some conclusions or
>>>> >> > > hypotheses you may want to consider presenting it in an AMSAT
>>>> Journal
>>>> >> > > article.
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > > Jerry Buxton, N?JY
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > > On 7/25/2020 22:22, Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>>>> >> > > > Is it possible to get some sort of download for the Historical
>>>> >> > Telemetry
>>>> >> > > > downlinked by Fox-1A? It would be interesting to study its
>>>> life in
>>>> >> > space.
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > > _______________________________________________
>>>> >> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>>> available
>>>> >> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>> >> > Opinions
>>>> >> > > expressed
>>>> >> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>>> views
>>>> >> of
>>>> >> > > AMSAT-NA.
>>>> >> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>> >> > program!
>>>> >> > > Subscription settings:
>>>> >> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>>> >> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>>> available
>>>> >> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>> >> Opinions
>>>> >> > expressed
>>>> >> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>>> views of
>>>> >> > AMSAT-NA.
>>>> >> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>> >> program!
>>>> >> > Subscription settings:
>>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>>> available
>>>> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>> >> Opinions expressed
>>>> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>>> views of
>>>> >> AMSAT-NA.
>>>> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>> program!
>>>> >> Subscription settings:
>>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Chris E. Thompson
>>>> > chrisethompson at gmail.com
>>>> > g0kla at arrl.net
>>>> >
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>> Opinions expressed
>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>>> of AMSAT-NA.
>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>> program!
>>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
>>> AMSAT Director and Command Station
>>>
>>> --
> Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
> AMSAT Director and Command Station
>
>

From wa4sca at gmail.com  Mon Jul 27 02:16:36 2020
From: wa4sca at gmail.com (Alan)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 21:16:36 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Historical Data download for FOX-1A?
In-Reply-To: <CALS66FsnvV_K4VpVhuW4pACVS6BtDXoigpOWYjKOjDdOYsZL5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALS66Fvnfa9KatA09iwK5+fduCtrpLCjE7UNbCTXtO9Y=Ppv2g@mail.gmail.com>	<27cacc59-b616-dee8-528d-19e4a7da4fe9@amsat.org>	<CALS66Fu-aBTKPcFbtqrBjygzHWKEuhRktWRzO8izBkZThuiFtw@mail.gmail.com>	<CABX7KxWhrk64yzNMgsVfjrsrkSJaTi=7_P7PUzeDNvdwdP0oUg@mail.gmail.com>	<CAJOf0+uQjWN5ZkVMxqHQY9eCfRBg4eRCk4ub3wKtsYgOwX3LwQ@mail.gmail.com>	<CALS66Fu-Ea2i63w1HXJ2iz638CUZX74u2LKbDaVYKH+HtctB1g@mail.gmail.com>	<CAPRXzyqTO0GJmg8va-B72K0yZ6M-vRnmfkJCZafDpQpwZ5tTJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALS66FsnvV_K4VpVhuW4pACVS6BtDXoigpOWYjKOjDdOYsZL5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000801d663bb$f4b11b10$de135130$@gmail.com>

AO-85 and a couple of others are not available in the normal distributions.  AMSAT keeps its own archives:

https://www.amsat.org/tle/historical/

Toward the bottom you can get the Keps for AO-85 in approximately weekly intervals.

73,

Alan
WA4SCA


<-----Original Message-----
<From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org] On Behalf Of Bill Gaylord via
<AMSAT-BB
<Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2020 8:35 PM
<To: Mark L. Hammond <marklhammond at gmail.com>
<Cc: Chris Thompson <g0kla at arrl.net>; AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
<Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Historical Data download for FOX-1A?
<
<I looked it up by Norad ID. From what i know its TLE are opennly
<distrobuted by space tracked because it went up with some military stuff.
<Same reason it was never on CelesTrack.
<
<KD9KCK
<
<On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 8:24 PM Mark L. Hammond <marklhammond at gmail.com>
<wrote:
<
<> Hi Bill, it?s aka AO-85 so pretty sure the Keps can still be gotten. Old
<> or new.
<>
<> 73,
<> Mark N8MH
<>
<> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 9:21 PM Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB <
<> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
<>
<>> Thank you very much! Not at my computer at the moment but i will take a
<>> look in a bit.
<>>
<>> Btw is there a way for FoxTelem to be told what time it is to allow to
<>> process passes shortly after they occur? (I plan on trying to automate
<>> pulling data from SatNOGS for the still operating Foxes.)
<>>
<>>
<>>
<>> Also not totally related but any idea where i can look for old TLE for
<>> Fox-1A. I normally go to SpaceTrack to get thay sort of stuff but because
<>> Fox-1A doesnt exist there its not going to help much.
<>>
<>> KD9KCK
<>>
<>>
<>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 7:37 PM Chris Thompson <g0kla at arrl.net> wrote:
<>>
<>> > Hi Bill,
<>> >
<>> > You can download all of the data for AO-85 from this link:
<>> > http://amsat.org/tlm/ao85/serverlogs.tar.gz  That contains the raw data
<>> > in CSV format.  For Fox-1A the conversions are defined in the back of
<>> the
<>> > manual for FoxTelem.
<>> >
<>> > As Jerry said, your best bet might be to use FoxTelem.  You can save the
<>> > data as a CSV file from any graph.  Even if it plots multiple channels.
<>> > That allows you to save converted data in human readable form and do
<>> > further analysis in another program.
<>> >
<>> > I'm more than happy to walk you through how to do this and help
<>> extracting
<>> > or converting the data.  Let me know how I can help.
<>> >
<>> > 73
<>> > Chris
<>> >
<>> > On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 8:26 PM Burns Fisher via AMSAT-BB <
<>> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
<>> >
<>> >> What CSV files are you getting from FoxTelem.  As I recall they all
<>> have a
<>> >> first line that has the name of the field.   Or do you mean
<>> >> translation from downlinked units to standard units (like volts, ma,
<>> >> degrees, etc)?  I'm not sure there is a doc, but there probably should
<>> be.
<>> >> Let us know what you need to know.
<>> >>
<>> >> Burns WB1FJ
<>> >>
<>> >> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 4:38 PM Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB <
<>> >> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
<>> >>
<>> >> > Is there a document on how the CSV files are formatted? (I can't
<>> seem to
<>> >> > find any information on what columns are what.)
<>> >> >
<>> >> > KD9KCK
<>> >> >
<>> >> > On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 2:07 AM Jerry Buxton via AMSAT-BB <
<>> >> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
<>> >> >
<>> >> > > Bill,
<>> >> > >
<>> >> > > You can download all of the data for any particular satellite with
<>> >> > > FoxTelem, using the "fetch server data" menu item.
<>> >> > > I would suggest setting up/switching to a separate FoxTelem data
<>> >> > > directory for that so the info doesn't overwrite your own captured
<>> >> data
<>> >> > > and can be left alone to play with.
<>> >> > >
<>> >> > > Your analysis is of interest to engineering and many others I am
<>> sure,
<>> >> > > once you have studied the data and come to some conclusions or
<>> >> > > hypotheses you may want to consider presenting it in an AMSAT
<>> Journal
<>> >> > > article.
<>> >> > >
<>> >> > > Jerry Buxton, N?JY
<>> >> > >
<>> >> > > On 7/25/2020 22:22, Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB wrote:
<>> >> > > > Is it possible to get some sort of download for the Historical
<>> >> > Telemetry
<>> >> > > > downlinked by Fox-1A? It would be interesting to study its life
<>> in
<>> >> > space.
<>> >> > >
<>> >> > > _______________________________________________
<>> >> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
<>> available
<>> >> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
<>> >> > Opinions
<>> >> > > expressed
<>> >> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
<>> views
<>> >> of
<>> >> > > AMSAT-NA.
<>> >> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
<>> >> > program!
<>> >> > > Subscription settings:
<>> >> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
<>> >> > >
<>> >> > _______________________________________________
<>> >> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
<>> available
<>> >> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
<>> >> Opinions
<>> >> > expressed
<>> >> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
<>> views of
<>> >> > AMSAT-NA.
<>> >> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
<>> >> program!
<>> >> > Subscription settings:
<>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
<>> >> >
<>> >> _______________________________________________
<>> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
<>> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
<>> >> Opinions expressed
<>> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
<>> of
<>> >> AMSAT-NA.
<>> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
<>> program!
<>> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
<>> >>
<>> >
<>> >
<>> > --
<>> > Chris E. Thompson
<>> > chrisethompson at gmail.com
<>> > g0kla at arrl.net
<>> >
<>> _______________________________________________
<>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
<>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
<>> Opinions expressed
<>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
<>> AMSAT-NA.
<>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
<>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
<>>
<> --
<> Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
<> AMSAT Director and Command Station
<>
<>
<_______________________________________________
<Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
<to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
<are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
<Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
<Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From wa4sca at gmail.com  Mon Jul 27 02:49:35 2020
From: wa4sca at gmail.com (Alan)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 21:49:35 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Historical Data download for FOX-1A?
In-Reply-To: <CALS66FsnvV_K4VpVhuW4pACVS6BtDXoigpOWYjKOjDdOYsZL5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALS66Fvnfa9KatA09iwK5+fduCtrpLCjE7UNbCTXtO9Y=Ppv2g@mail.gmail.com>	<27cacc59-b616-dee8-528d-19e4a7da4fe9@amsat.org>	<CALS66Fu-aBTKPcFbtqrBjygzHWKEuhRktWRzO8izBkZThuiFtw@mail.gmail.com>	<CABX7KxWhrk64yzNMgsVfjrsrkSJaTi=7_P7PUzeDNvdwdP0oUg@mail.gmail.com>	<CAJOf0+uQjWN5ZkVMxqHQY9eCfRBg4eRCk4ub3wKtsYgOwX3LwQ@mail.gmail.com>	<CALS66Fu-Ea2i63w1HXJ2iz638CUZX74u2LKbDaVYKH+HtctB1g@mail.gmail.com>	<CAPRXzyqTO0GJmg8va-B72K0yZ6M-vRnmfkJCZafDpQpwZ5tTJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALS66FsnvV_K4VpVhuW4pACVS6BtDXoigpOWYjKOjDdOYsZL5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001d663c0$907c6370$b1752a50$@gmail.com>

AO-85 and a couple of others are not available in the normal distributions.  AMSAT keeps its own archives:

https://www.amsat.org/tle/historical/

Toward the bottom you can get the Keps for AO-85 in approximately weekly intervals.

73,

Alan
WA4SCA


<-----Original Message-----
<From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org] On Behalf Of Bill Gaylord via
<AMSAT-BB
<Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2020 8:35 PM
<To: Mark L. Hammond <marklhammond at gmail.com>
<Cc: Chris Thompson <g0kla at arrl.net>; AMSAT BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
<Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Historical Data download for FOX-1A?
<
<I looked it up by Norad ID. From what i know its TLE are opennly
<distrobuted by space tracked because it went up with some military stuff.
<Same reason it was never on CelesTrack.
<
<KD9KCK
<
<On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 8:24 PM Mark L. Hammond <marklhammond at gmail.com>
<wrote:
<
<> Hi Bill, it?s aka AO-85 so pretty sure the Keps can still be gotten. Old
<> or new.
<>
<> 73,
<> Mark N8MH
<>
<> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 9:21 PM Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB <
<> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
<>
<>> Thank you very much! Not at my computer at the moment but i will take a
<>> look in a bit.
<>>
<>> Btw is there a way for FoxTelem to be told what time it is to allow to
<>> process passes shortly after they occur? (I plan on trying to automate
<>> pulling data from SatNOGS for the still operating Foxes.)
<>>
<>>
<>>
<>> Also not totally related but any idea where i can look for old TLE for
<>> Fox-1A. I normally go to SpaceTrack to get thay sort of stuff but because
<>> Fox-1A doesnt exist there its not going to help much.
<>>
<>> KD9KCK
<>>
<>>
<>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 7:37 PM Chris Thompson <g0kla at arrl.net> wrote:
<>>
<>> > Hi Bill,
<>> >
<>> > You can download all of the data for AO-85 from this link:
<>> > http://amsat.org/tlm/ao85/serverlogs.tar.gz  That contains the raw data
<>> > in CSV format.  For Fox-1A the conversions are defined in the back of
<>> the
<>> > manual for FoxTelem.
<>> >
<>> > As Jerry said, your best bet might be to use FoxTelem.  You can save the
<>> > data as a CSV file from any graph.  Even if it plots multiple channels.
<>> > That allows you to save converted data in human readable form and do
<>> > further analysis in another program.
<>> >
<>> > I'm more than happy to walk you through how to do this and help
<>> extracting
<>> > or converting the data.  Let me know how I can help.
<>> >
<>> > 73
<>> > Chris
<>> >
<>> > On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 8:26 PM Burns Fisher via AMSAT-BB <
<>> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
<>> >
<>> >> What CSV files are you getting from FoxTelem.  As I recall they all
<>> have a
<>> >> first line that has the name of the field.   Or do you mean
<>> >> translation from downlinked units to standard units (like volts, ma,
<>> >> degrees, etc)?  I'm not sure there is a doc, but there probably should
<>> be.
<>> >> Let us know what you need to know.
<>> >>
<>> >> Burns WB1FJ
<>> >>
<>> >> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 4:38 PM Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB <
<>> >> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
<>> >>
<>> >> > Is there a document on how the CSV files are formatted? (I can't
<>> seem to
<>> >> > find any information on what columns are what.)
<>> >> >
<>> >> > KD9KCK
<>> >> >
<>> >> > On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 2:07 AM Jerry Buxton via AMSAT-BB <
<>> >> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
<>> >> >
<>> >> > > Bill,
<>> >> > >
<>> >> > > You can download all of the data for any particular satellite with
<>> >> > > FoxTelem, using the "fetch server data" menu item.
<>> >> > > I would suggest setting up/switching to a separate FoxTelem data
<>> >> > > directory for that so the info doesn't overwrite your own captured
<>> >> data
<>> >> > > and can be left alone to play with.
<>> >> > >
<>> >> > > Your analysis is of interest to engineering and many others I am
<>> sure,
<>> >> > > once you have studied the data and come to some conclusions or
<>> >> > > hypotheses you may want to consider presenting it in an AMSAT
<>> Journal
<>> >> > > article.
<>> >> > >
<>> >> > > Jerry Buxton, N?JY
<>> >> > >
<>> >> > > On 7/25/2020 22:22, Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB wrote:
<>> >> > > > Is it possible to get some sort of download for the Historical
<>> >> > Telemetry
<>> >> > > > downlinked by Fox-1A? It would be interesting to study its life
<>> in
<>> >> > space.
<>> >> > >
<>> >> > > _______________________________________________
<>> >> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
<>> available
<>> >> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
<>> >> > Opinions
<>> >> > > expressed
<>> >> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
<>> views
<>> >> of
<>> >> > > AMSAT-NA.
<>> >> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
<>> >> > program!
<>> >> > > Subscription settings:
<>> >> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
<>> >> > >
<>> >> > _______________________________________________
<>> >> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
<>> available
<>> >> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
<>> >> Opinions
<>> >> > expressed
<>> >> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
<>> views of
<>> >> > AMSAT-NA.
<>> >> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
<>> >> program!
<>> >> > Subscription settings:
<>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
<>> >> >
<>> >> _______________________________________________
<>> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
<>> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
<>> >> Opinions expressed
<>> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
<>> of
<>> >> AMSAT-NA.
<>> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
<>> program!
<>> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
<>> >>
<>> >
<>> >
<>> > --
<>> > Chris E. Thompson
<>> > chrisethompson at gmail.com
<>> > g0kla at arrl.net
<>> >
<>> _______________________________________________
<>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
<>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
<>> Opinions expressed
<>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
<>> AMSAT-NA.
<>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
<>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
<>>
<> --
<> Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
<> AMSAT Director and Command Station
<>
<>
<_______________________________________________
<Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
<to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
<are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
<Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
<Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From bob at bobleavitt.com  Sun Jul 26 22:38:56 2020
From: bob at bobleavitt.com (Bob Leavitt)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 16:38:56 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] Alfa Spid Rotor Question
Message-ID: <CAMNdJafpU9OG1Fc3AnSVB+2s0TA+AMC83qJL3RTkBKkRZHYQGw@mail.gmail.com>

Our Grade School has been selected to participate in the NASA ARISS
program.  We are working to have our station setup for the scheduled
October ISS contact.  We are having a problem with the Alfa Spid rotor
controller, in that it can see the port but cannot talk to it.  This
problem was duplicated by the technician at Hy-Gain (US Distributor).  Has
anyone else had a similar problem?  If so, is there a solution?
TNX
73,
Bob
KE?SDV

From royldean at gmail.com  Mon Jul 27 11:47:57 2020
From: royldean at gmail.com (Roy Dean)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 07:47:57 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Easy and FUN Antenna Projects
Message-ID: <CADGPg2uVQWpM50eM74_bD9H-XyhVUsW5SGqEsXk9=jAKbxL40g@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, Clint.   Then I'll call it as I see it:   Please stop clogging the
internet with your personal web page propaganda.


--Roy
K3RLD


> Roy Dean:
>
> You need a little education.
>
> ?Spam? is irrelevant or inappropriate messages sent indiscriminately to all audiences.
>
> ?Advertising? is the activity or profession of producing ads for commercial products or services.
>
> What do I offer on my Web site? Information. Free-of-charge. No product nor service that
> benefits me personally.
>
> SO ? What I did - post ANTENNA PROJECTS to groups entitled ?antennas,? ?satellites,? and
> ?DIY Projects? is really quite an appropriate use of the ?Net. No spam. Target audiences.
>
> Clint Bradford K6LCS
>
>

From w2ev at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 27 13:34:13 2020
From: w2ev at yahoo.com (Ev Tupis)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 13:34:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Easy and FUN Antenna Projects
In-Reply-To: <CADGPg2uVQWpM50eM74_bD9H-XyhVUsW5SGqEsXk9=jAKbxL40g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADGPg2uVQWpM50eM74_bD9H-XyhVUsW5SGqEsXk9=jAKbxL40g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <740842349.7682162.1595856853747@mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Roy,
I found information on Clint's website to be helpful.? It included information that I have overtly asked about on-list and received very little feedback.

Calling his efforts "propaganda" seems a bit harsh when the best response would be to simply ignore what you aren't interested in and allowing others with an interest to benefit.

Here's hoping your day works out to be enjoyable and productive.

Ev, W2EV



On Monday, July 27, 2020, 07:49:47 AM EDT, Roy Dean via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 

Ok, Clint.? Then I'll call it as I see it:? Please stop clogging the
internet with your personal web page propaganda.


--Roy
K3RLD


> Roy Dean:
>
> You need a little education.
>
> ?Spam? is irrelevant or inappropriate messages sent indiscriminately to all audiences.
>
> ?Advertising? is the activity or profession of producing ads for commercial products or services.
>
> What do I offer on my Web site? Information. Free-of-charge. No product nor service that
> benefits me personally.
>
> SO ? What I did - post ANTENNA PROJECTS to groups entitled ?antennas,? ?satellites,? and
> ?DIY Projects? is really quite an appropriate use of the ?Net. No spam. Target audiences.
>
> Clint Bradford K6LCS
>
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From zleffke at vt.edu  Mon Jul 27 15:02:14 2020
From: zleffke at vt.edu (Leffke, Zachary)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 15:02:14 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Alfa Spid Rotor Question
In-Reply-To: <CAMNdJafpU9OG1Fc3AnSVB+2s0TA+AMC83qJL3RTkBKkRZHYQGw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMNdJafpU9OG1Fc3AnSVB+2s0TA+AMC83qJL3RTkBKkRZHYQGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR05MB70378301BC43A69F2BC8553ADF720@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Bob,
Are you interfacing over USB, Serial, or Ethernet?  Also is your controller the MD-01/MD-02 or the other version (I forgot the name, rot2prog maybe?  The one with LED digital readout, not the LCD screen that the MD-01 has).  We use the MD-01 style at VT, and in the menu screens you have to specifically select the interface (in our case Ethernet) in order for the controller to 'listen' on the right port.  You also have to make sure you tell it which protocol to use (there are a few options) and make sure your host software is speaking the same protocol.  

Hope this helps!

-Zach, KJ4QLP
-- 
Research Associate
Aerospace & Ocean Systems Lab
Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
Work Phone: 540-231-4174
Cell Phone: 540-808-6305

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Bob Leavitt via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2020 6:39 PM
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Alfa Spid Rotor Question

Our Grade School has been selected to participate in the NASA ARISS
program.  We are working to have our station setup for the scheduled
October ISS contact.  We are having a problem with the Alfa Spid rotor
controller, in that it can see the port but cannot talk to it.  This
problem was duplicated by the technician at Hy-Gain (US Distributor).  Has
anyone else had a similar problem?  If so, is there a solution?
TNX
73,
Bob
KE?SDV
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From bob at bobleavitt.com  Mon Jul 27 15:39:22 2020
From: bob at bobleavitt.com (Bob Leavitt)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 09:39:22 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] Alfa Spid Rotor Question
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR05MB70378301BC43A69F2BC8553ADF720@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAMNdJafpU9OG1Fc3AnSVB+2s0TA+AMC83qJL3RTkBKkRZHYQGw@mail.gmail.com>
	<MN2PR05MB70378301BC43A69F2BC8553ADF720@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAMNdJacCoDM9ntfSK0oZAFR4DtTR2ZvXkJUrkAwuFyBpNXDFdg@mail.gmail.com>

We are using the Rot2Prog controller. It has a USB connector and a FTDI
FT232RL USB to Serial chip. We can't get it to communicate with a computer
in any way. The program we are using is SatPC32, but we've also tried
different programs and computers.

Thanks,
Bob

Bob Leavitt
KE?SDV
740 Ramshorn Drive
Estes Park, CO 80517
Phone: 970-480-1588
Email: bob at bobleavitt.com


On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 9:04 AM Leffke, Zachary via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Hi Bob,
> Are you interfacing over USB, Serial, or Ethernet?  Also is your
> controller the MD-01/MD-02 or the other version (I forgot the name,
> rot2prog maybe?  The one with LED digital readout, not the LCD screen that
> the MD-01 has).  We use the MD-01 style at VT, and in the menu screens you
> have to specifically select the interface (in our case Ethernet) in order
> for the controller to 'listen' on the right port.  You also have to make
> sure you tell it which protocol to use (there are a few options) and make
> sure your host software is speaking the same protocol.
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> -Zach, KJ4QLP
> --
> Research Associate
> Aerospace & Ocean Systems Lab
> Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
> Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
> Work Phone: 540-231-4174
> Cell Phone: 540-808-6305
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of Bob Leavitt via
> AMSAT-BB
> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2020 6:39 PM
> To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Alfa Spid Rotor Question
>
> Our Grade School has been selected to participate in the NASA ARISS
> program.  We are working to have our station setup for the scheduled
> October ISS contact.  We are having a problem with the Alfa Spid rotor
> controller, in that it can see the port but cannot talk to it.  This
> problem was duplicated by the technician at Hy-Gain (US Distributor).  Has
> anyone else had a similar problem?  If so, is there a solution?
> TNX
> 73,
> Bob
> KE?SDV
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From clintbradford at mac.com  Mon Jul 27 16:36:02 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 09:36:02 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] SSTV from ISS Aug 4-5
Message-ID: <59C75C0D-C2AD-485B-8D6B-F49EF3EE5662@mac.com>

MAI-75 SSTV activity planned for Aug 4 and 5
The final crew schedule for the week of Aug 3-9 was released recently and it showed a MAI-75 activity scheduled for Aug 4 and 5. This is soon after the Space X Demo-2 undock so changes to that event could impact the schedule.

The current dates and times of the activity are as follows:

Aug 4 (12:25-18:10 UTC) is setup and Day 1 operations.

Aug 5 (11:15-18:45 UTC) is Day 2 operations and close out.

This is the Moscow Aviation Institute SSTV experiment that is activate for orbital passes over Moscow, Russia. It has traditionally been PD-180 or PD-120 and transmitting on 145.800 MHz.

-July 27th 2020 - ARISS Blog

From amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net  Mon Jul 27 16:44:08 2020
From: amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net (Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK))
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 16:44:08 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
Message-ID: <CAN6TEUc29OmjtBpY_28cgTQ_h1J85oatCNYP21HbBM0FfmHozQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi.

The following is the text of a letter sent on behalf of Michelle
Thompson W5NYV and me to AMSAT President Clayton Coleman W5PFG,
along with everyone who co-signed Clayton's letter of 10 July 2020.





Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK



*********************************
Text of forwarded letter is below
*********************************




July 27, 2020

AMSAT Board Members
Clayton Coleman, President


Dear Sirs and Madam:

I am writing in my capacity as counsel to Michelle Thompson and Patrick
Stoddard regarding the letter to members entitled ?AMSAT Leadership
Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses? posted on July 10, 2020 (?Letter?).
Through the course of my representation of my clients, I know that
information included in this letter is patently false and defamatory
and has resulted in reputational harm to Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard.
On behalf of my clients, I demand that appropriate corrective action be
taken to address these falsehoods and prevent further harm to their
reputations.

The most egregious falsehood, among several, is the statement that
AMSAT is ?under attack? by my clients. Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard
have consistently worked to improve AMSAT ? and have done nothing to
attack or undermine the organization they support. It is true that my
clients have worked diligently to evaluate the mission, activities,
finances, and procedures of AMSAT. Specifically, they have taken steps
to increase the financial transparency of AMSAT, enforce the provisions
of its existing bylaws, and obtain access to corporate and financial
documents. They have done all of this work as volunteers, deeply
invested in the well-being and success of AMSAT as an organization.
While I understand that certain AMSAT officials may interpret my
clients? actions to be critical of their personal actions, it is simply
not true that AMSAT as an organization is ?under attack.? The broad
dissemination of a statement to the contrary is false, harms Ms.
Thompson?s and Mr. Stoddard?s ability to serve AMSAT and calls into
question their integrity.

As you know, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard were improperly denied
access to AMSAT?s corporate records. They had to retain my firm just to
be able to carry out their corporate responsibilities as Directors.
They now are questioning the propriety of the legal expenditures as
they have not been given any evidence that these expenses were ever
approved by board action, much less in advance of the engagement, as is
required by Article II, Section 1 of AMSAT?s bylaws. One of the
principal fiduciary responsibilities of all board members is to obey
the provisions of the organization?s governing documents. Rather than
?disrupt and possibly defame? or ?publicly attack the integrity and
honor? of AMSAT Officers and Directors, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard
have merely been trying to review whether the AMSAT board has met this
important fiduciary obligation.

You noted, ?[t]he only powers that Directors have is when the Board is
in session and Board members make their vote? ? and yet, we are not
aware of any Board meeting in which this Letter was discussed. The fact
that five of the current Directors have decided to sign this letter
without conferring as a Board is good evidence that Directors may
choose to exercise his or her individual oversight role in the absence
of a Board meeting.

In conclusion, my clients are doing their best to improve financial
transparency and good governance in AMSAT. We agree that ?a poisonous
atmosphere makes it impossible for good ideas to be heard? and my
clients both wish to create instead an ?atmosphere of collaboration and
common purpose.? They ran on a reform platform and were duly elected by
the members to carry out that mandate.

With this letter, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard formally request that
the Letter be retracted and removed from AMSAT?s public website.
Alternatively, the Letter should, in consultation with my clients, be
corrected to accurately reflect the reality of their interactions with
AMSAT and its Board. Given that the unfounded accusations against my
clients harm their reputation and question their integrity, we request
action be taken no later than ten (10) days after the receipt of this
demand.

We look forward to your prompt attention to this matter.

Sincerely,
Carolyn A. Klamp, Counsel


cc: Dr. Tom Clark
    Keith Baker,
    Jerry Buxton,
    Dr. Mark Hammond,
    Paul Stoetzer,
    Martha Saragovitz,
    Robert Bankston,
    Drew Glasbrenner,
    Bruce Paige
    Michelle Thompson
    Patrick Stoddard

From almetco at comcast.net  Mon Jul 27 17:01:58 2020
From: almetco at comcast.net (Greg)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 13:01:58 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
In-Reply-To: <CAN6TEUc29OmjtBpY_28cgTQ_h1J85oatCNYP21HbBM0FfmHozQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN6TEUc29OmjtBpY_28cgTQ_h1J85oatCNYP21HbBM0FfmHozQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D495ADC7-A128-4BD9-A27F-E3974D012028@comcast.net>

What ever happened to the good old days where if you didn't like the place you were  an unpaid volunteer, you quit, walked away and didn?t call your attorney?

I have no respect in the fact that an attorney is even involved in volunteer position.

Greg
N3MVF



On Jul 27, 2020, at 12:44 PM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

Hi.

The following is the text of a letter sent on behalf of Michelle
Thompson W5NYV and me to AMSAT President Clayton Coleman W5PFG,
along with everyone who co-signed Clayton's letter of 10 July 2020.





Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK



*********************************
Text of forwarded letter is below
*********************************




July 27, 2020

AMSAT Board Members
Clayton Coleman, President


Dear Sirs and Madam:

I am writing in my capacity as counsel to Michelle Thompson and Patrick
Stoddard regarding the letter to members entitled ?AMSAT Leadership
Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses? posted on July 10, 2020 (?Letter?).
Through the course of my representation of my clients, I know that
information included in this letter is patently false and defamatory
and has resulted in reputational harm to Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard.
On behalf of my clients, I demand that appropriate corrective action be
taken to address these falsehoods and prevent further harm to their
reputations.

The most egregious falsehood, among several, is the statement that
AMSAT is ?under attack? by my clients. Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard
have consistently worked to improve AMSAT ? and have done nothing to
attack or undermine the organization they support. It is true that my
clients have worked diligently to evaluate the mission, activities,
finances, and procedures of AMSAT. Specifically, they have taken steps
to increase the financial transparency of AMSAT, enforce the provisions
of its existing bylaws, and obtain access to corporate and financial
documents. They have done all of this work as volunteers, deeply
invested in the well-being and success of AMSAT as an organization.
While I understand that certain AMSAT officials may interpret my
clients? actions to be critical of their personal actions, it is simply
not true that AMSAT as an organization is ?under attack.? The broad
dissemination of a statement to the contrary is false, harms Ms.
Thompson?s and Mr. Stoddard?s ability to serve AMSAT and calls into
question their integrity.

As you know, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard were improperly denied
access to AMSAT?s corporate records. They had to retain my firm just to
be able to carry out their corporate responsibilities as Directors.
They now are questioning the propriety of the legal expenditures as
they have not been given any evidence that these expenses were ever
approved by board action, much less in advance of the engagement, as is
required by Article II, Section 1 of AMSAT?s bylaws. One of the
principal fiduciary responsibilities of all board members is to obey
the provisions of the organization?s governing documents. Rather than
?disrupt and possibly defame? or ?publicly attack the integrity and
honor? of AMSAT Officers and Directors, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard
have merely been trying to review whether the AMSAT board has met this
important fiduciary obligation.

You noted, ?[t]he only powers that Directors have is when the Board is
in session and Board members make their vote? ? and yet, we are not
aware of any Board meeting in which this Letter was discussed. The fact
that five of the current Directors have decided to sign this letter
without conferring as a Board is good evidence that Directors may
choose to exercise his or her individual oversight role in the absence
of a Board meeting.

In conclusion, my clients are doing their best to improve financial
transparency and good governance in AMSAT. We agree that ?a poisonous
atmosphere makes it impossible for good ideas to be heard? and my
clients both wish to create instead an ?atmosphere of collaboration and
common purpose.? They ran on a reform platform and were duly elected by
the members to carry out that mandate.

With this letter, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard formally request that
the Letter be retracted and removed from AMSAT?s public website.
Alternatively, the Letter should, in consultation with my clients, be
corrected to accurately reflect the reality of their interactions with
AMSAT and its Board. Given that the unfounded accusations against my
clients harm their reputation and question their integrity, we request
action be taken no later than ten (10) days after the receipt of this
demand.

We look forward to your prompt attention to this matter.

Sincerely,
Carolyn A. Klamp, Counsel


cc: Dr. Tom Clark
   Keith Baker,
   Jerry Buxton,
   Dr. Mark Hammond,
   Paul Stoetzer,
   Martha Saragovitz,
   Robert Bankston,
   Drew Glasbrenner,
   Bruce Paige
   Michelle Thompson
   Patrick Stoddard
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From dave at druidnetworks.com  Mon Jul 27 17:31:02 2020
From: dave at druidnetworks.com (David Swanson)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 12:31:02 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
In-Reply-To: <CAN6TEUc29OmjtBpY_28cgTQ_h1J85oatCNYP21HbBM0FfmHozQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN6TEUc29OmjtBpY_28cgTQ_h1J85oatCNYP21HbBM0FfmHozQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANq+eyVd2HyToM0PKd+V=PM35KMqOKPczE1zKQD0ECMQt5urGw@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you so much for this. I needed a good laugh today. I hope you didn't
pay more than a few hundred bucks to have this 'demand' (still laughing at
that) letter written.

For those on the sidelines not used to dealing with lawyers often, this is
why an organization like AMSAT spends $10k+ a year in legal fees. Quality
work is worth it.

-Dave, KG5CCI

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 11:46 AM Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via
AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Hi.
>
> The following is the text of a letter sent on behalf of Michelle
> Thompson W5NYV and me to AMSAT President Clayton Coleman W5PFG,
> along with everyone who co-signed Clayton's letter of 10 July 2020.
>
>
>
>
>
> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
>
>
>
> *********************************
> Text of forwarded letter is below
> *********************************
>
>
>
>
> July 27, 2020
>
> AMSAT Board Members
> Clayton Coleman, President
>
>
> Dear Sirs and Madam:
>
> I am writing in my capacity as counsel to Michelle Thompson and Patrick
> Stoddard regarding the letter to members entitled ?AMSAT Leadership
> Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses? posted on July 10, 2020 (?Letter?).
> Through the course of my representation of my clients, I know that
> information included in this letter is patently false and defamatory
> and has resulted in reputational harm to Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard.
> On behalf of my clients, I demand that appropriate corrective action be
> taken to address these falsehoods and prevent further harm to their
> reputations.
>
> The most egregious falsehood, among several, is the statement that
> AMSAT is ?under attack? by my clients. Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard
> have consistently worked to improve AMSAT ? and have done nothing to
> attack or undermine the organization they support. It is true that my
> clients have worked diligently to evaluate the mission, activities,
> finances, and procedures of AMSAT. Specifically, they have taken steps
> to increase the financial transparency of AMSAT, enforce the provisions
> of its existing bylaws, and obtain access to corporate and financial
> documents. They have done all of this work as volunteers, deeply
> invested in the well-being and success of AMSAT as an organization.
> While I understand that certain AMSAT officials may interpret my
> clients? actions to be critical of their personal actions, it is simply
> not true that AMSAT as an organization is ?under attack.? The broad
> dissemination of a statement to the contrary is false, harms Ms.
> Thompson?s and Mr. Stoddard?s ability to serve AMSAT and calls into
> question their integrity.
>
> As you know, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard were improperly denied
> access to AMSAT?s corporate records. They had to retain my firm just to
> be able to carry out their corporate responsibilities as Directors.
> They now are questioning the propriety of the legal expenditures as
> they have not been given any evidence that these expenses were ever
> approved by board action, much less in advance of the engagement, as is
> required by Article II, Section 1 of AMSAT?s bylaws. One of the
> principal fiduciary responsibilities of all board members is to obey
> the provisions of the organization?s governing documents. Rather than
> ?disrupt and possibly defame? or ?publicly attack the integrity and
> honor? of AMSAT Officers and Directors, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard
> have merely been trying to review whether the AMSAT board has met this
> important fiduciary obligation.
>
> You noted, ?[t]he only powers that Directors have is when the Board is
> in session and Board members make their vote? ? and yet, we are not
> aware of any Board meeting in which this Letter was discussed. The fact
> that five of the current Directors have decided to sign this letter
> without conferring as a Board is good evidence that Directors may
> choose to exercise his or her individual oversight role in the absence
> of a Board meeting.
>
> In conclusion, my clients are doing their best to improve financial
> transparency and good governance in AMSAT. We agree that ?a poisonous
> atmosphere makes it impossible for good ideas to be heard? and my
> clients both wish to create instead an ?atmosphere of collaboration and
> common purpose.? They ran on a reform platform and were duly elected by
> the members to carry out that mandate.
>
> With this letter, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard formally request that
> the Letter be retracted and removed from AMSAT?s public website.
> Alternatively, the Letter should, in consultation with my clients, be
> corrected to accurately reflect the reality of their interactions with
> AMSAT and its Board. Given that the unfounded accusations against my
> clients harm their reputation and question their integrity, we request
> action be taken no later than ten (10) days after the receipt of this
> demand.
>
> We look forward to your prompt attention to this matter.
>
> Sincerely,
> Carolyn A. Klamp, Counsel
>
>
> cc: Dr. Tom Clark
>     Keith Baker,
>     Jerry Buxton,
>     Dr. Mark Hammond,
>     Paul Stoetzer,
>     Martha Saragovitz,
>     Robert Bankston,
>     Drew Glasbrenner,
>     Bruce Paige
>     Michelle Thompson
>     Patrick Stoddard
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From mountain.michelle at gmail.com  Mon Jul 27 17:31:35 2020
From: mountain.michelle at gmail.com (Michelle Thompson)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 10:31:35 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
In-Reply-To: <D495ADC7-A128-4BD9-A27F-E3974D012028@comcast.net>
References: <CAN6TEUc29OmjtBpY_28cgTQ_h1J85oatCNYP21HbBM0FfmHozQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D495ADC7-A128-4BD9-A27F-E3974D012028@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CACvjz2WfxOFcfGFWuX2P+kwrkf-uKo3w3xTxbL_DGG=5OQQXcA@mail.gmail.com>

Imagine how we felt when we found out about the secretly hired lawyers. It
was the last thing we expected to find.

Patrick and I really want all of our membership money to not go towards
secretly hired lawyers used to target members that "annoy" the board. We
really didn't like getting ambushed by lawyers on phone calls with the
President of the organization. That sort of thing is unfair and not right.

We called in expert legal help as a last resort, to deal with being
targeted by lawyers paid for by our own membership dues.

If we simply walked away after discovering this, then it would still be
going on, and would happen again to others.

I am very sorry it's unpleasant. The "official explanation" is not official
and it's not an explanation. It's untrue and damaging.

It needs to be retracted.

Directors and officers need to change the way they do things in terms of
financial accountability and transparency.

This will lead, with 100% certainty, to immediate visible benefits.

That is what we are working for.

-Michelle W5NYV




On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 10:21 AM Greg via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> What ever happened to the good old days where if you didn't like the place
> you were  an unpaid volunteer, you quit, walked away and didn?t call your
> attorney?
>
> I have no respect in the fact that an attorney is even involved in
> volunteer position.
>
> Greg
> N3MVF
>
>
>
> On Jul 27, 2020, at 12:44 PM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via
> AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Hi.
>
> The following is the text of a letter sent on behalf of Michelle
> Thompson W5NYV and me to AMSAT President Clayton Coleman W5PFG,
> along with everyone who co-signed Clayton's letter of 10 July 2020.
>
>
>
>
>
> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
>
>
>
> *********************************
> Text of forwarded letter is below
> *********************************
>
>
>
>
> July 27, 2020
>
> AMSAT Board Members
> Clayton Coleman, President
>
>
> Dear Sirs and Madam:
>
> I am writing in my capacity as counsel to Michelle Thompson and Patrick
> Stoddard regarding the letter to members entitled ?AMSAT Leadership
> Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses? posted on July 10, 2020 (?Letter?).
> Through the course of my representation of my clients, I know that
> information included in this letter is patently false and defamatory
> and has resulted in reputational harm to Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard.
> On behalf of my clients, I demand that appropriate corrective action be
> taken to address these falsehoods and prevent further harm to their
> reputations.
>
> The most egregious falsehood, among several, is the statement that
> AMSAT is ?under attack? by my clients. Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard
> have consistently worked to improve AMSAT ? and have done nothing to
> attack or undermine the organization they support. It is true that my
> clients have worked diligently to evaluate the mission, activities,
> finances, and procedures of AMSAT. Specifically, they have taken steps
> to increase the financial transparency of AMSAT, enforce the provisions
> of its existing bylaws, and obtain access to corporate and financial
> documents. They have done all of this work as volunteers, deeply
> invested in the well-being and success of AMSAT as an organization.
> While I understand that certain AMSAT officials may interpret my
> clients? actions to be critical of their personal actions, it is simply
> not true that AMSAT as an organization is ?under attack.? The broad
> dissemination of a statement to the contrary is false, harms Ms.
> Thompson?s and Mr. Stoddard?s ability to serve AMSAT and calls into
> question their integrity.
>
> As you know, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard were improperly denied
> access to AMSAT?s corporate records. They had to retain my firm just to
> be able to carry out their corporate responsibilities as Directors.
> They now are questioning the propriety of the legal expenditures as
> they have not been given any evidence that these expenses were ever
> approved by board action, much less in advance of the engagement, as is
> required by Article II, Section 1 of AMSAT?s bylaws. One of the
> principal fiduciary responsibilities of all board members is to obey
> the provisions of the organization?s governing documents. Rather than
> ?disrupt and possibly defame? or ?publicly attack the integrity and
> honor? of AMSAT Officers and Directors, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard
> have merely been trying to review whether the AMSAT board has met this
> important fiduciary obligation.
>
> You noted, ?[t]he only powers that Directors have is when the Board is
> in session and Board members make their vote? ? and yet, we are not
> aware of any Board meeting in which this Letter was discussed. The fact
> that five of the current Directors have decided to sign this letter
> without conferring as a Board is good evidence that Directors may
> choose to exercise his or her individual oversight role in the absence
> of a Board meeting.
>
> In conclusion, my clients are doing their best to improve financial
> transparency and good governance in AMSAT. We agree that ?a poisonous
> atmosphere makes it impossible for good ideas to be heard? and my
> clients both wish to create instead an ?atmosphere of collaboration and
> common purpose.? They ran on a reform platform and were duly elected by
> the members to carry out that mandate.
>
> With this letter, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard formally request that
> the Letter be retracted and removed from AMSAT?s public website.
> Alternatively, the Letter should, in consultation with my clients, be
> corrected to accurately reflect the reality of their interactions with
> AMSAT and its Board. Given that the unfounded accusations against my
> clients harm their reputation and question their integrity, we request
> action be taken no later than ten (10) days after the receipt of this
> demand.
>
> We look forward to your prompt attention to this matter.
>
> Sincerely,
> Carolyn A. Klamp, Counsel
>
>
> cc: Dr. Tom Clark
>    Keith Baker,
>    Jerry Buxton,
>    Dr. Mark Hammond,
>    Paul Stoetzer,
>    Martha Saragovitz,
>    Robert Bankston,
>    Drew Glasbrenner,
>    Bruce Paige
>    Michelle Thompson
>    Patrick Stoddard
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From clintbradford at mac.com  Mon Jul 27 18:32:55 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 11:32:55 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Secretly Hired Lawyers
Message-ID: <A6D6910C-155A-4DE6-BD1E-386C04EA7DAF@mac.com>

>> ? secretly hired lawyers. It was the last thing we expected to find.

Did you expect to threaten there welfare of a corporation and NOT have them 
responsibly respond?

Oh, and b the way, litigants many times don?t tell the ?opposition? their 
strategy when seeking counsel.

I hear very few intelligent arguments from these ?truth seekers.?

And the noise of their NOT responding to allegation of past mis-deeds 
is deafening.

Clint Bradford K6LCA
AMSAT-NA Ambassador
909-999-SATS
 

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Mon Jul 27 18:42:55 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 14:42:55 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
In-Reply-To: <CAN6TEUc29OmjtBpY_28cgTQ_h1J85oatCNYP21HbBM0FfmHozQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN6TEUc29OmjtBpY_28cgTQ_h1J85oatCNYP21HbBM0FfmHozQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c8oGedGTjntGxzj9nfGGLVuq4c4kZN9id3+mbkpQjWmUw@mail.gmail.com>

Patrick,

I am an AMSAT Life Member and i'm just going to ask you, can you
please step down from being an AMSAT director?  It's obviously not
working out well for you (and others).  I mean, we can all see why
AMSAT is blowing money on attorneys now....  This is a concrete reason
to NOT to vote for anyone that you or Michelle Thompson recommend.
Spamming the BB with a letter like this, is highly unprofessional and
does not bring you much credibility in my book.  These are the kinds
of matters that professionals resolve privately.  By sending this to
the BB, I can only assume that all you and Michelle want attention.

Well, congratulations for possibly leading to more AMSAT funds being
blown on useless legal nonsense, instead of actual satellite work.
This is outstanding, officer / director work for the organization and
I personally do NOT thank you for it.

Honestly though, this is just getting stupid.  Just because people are
voted onto a board or into a position of office, doesn't mean that the
people voted in are any good for the job or working with the
organization.  Or... even know how to work well with others.  In any
election, there are masses of uninformed voters and/or individuals
that run under false-pretenses.  Just look at the last Florida
gubernatorial election and where Andrew Gillum ended up (naked, asleep
in his own vomit, with an escort overdosed on meth)... Gooooooooo,
democracy.

The directors that are putting AMSAT through this should all step
down, immediately.  Just because you were duly elected, doesn't mean
you are doing a good job or representing AMSAT well (All attempts at
virtuosity aside).  Do us all a favor, step down from your positions
please.  This is the best service you can offer AMSAT.

Thank You,
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 1:02 PM Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via
AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Hi.
>
> The following is the text of a letter sent on behalf of Michelle
> Thompson W5NYV and me to AMSAT President Clayton Coleman W5PFG,
> along with everyone who co-signed Clayton's letter of 10 July 2020.
>
>
>
>
>
> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
>
>
>
> *********************************
> Text of forwarded letter is below
> *********************************
>
>
>
>
> July 27, 2020
>
> AMSAT Board Members
> Clayton Coleman, President
>
>
> Dear Sirs and Madam:
>
> I am writing in my capacity as counsel to Michelle Thompson and Patrick
> Stoddard regarding the letter to members entitled ?AMSAT Leadership
> Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses? posted on July 10, 2020 (?Letter?).
> Through the course of my representation of my clients, I know that
> information included in this letter is patently false and defamatory
> and has resulted in reputational harm to Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard.
> On behalf of my clients, I demand that appropriate corrective action be
> taken to address these falsehoods and prevent further harm to their
> reputations.
>
> The most egregious falsehood, among several, is the statement that
> AMSAT is ?under attack? by my clients. Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard
> have consistently worked to improve AMSAT ? and have done nothing to
> attack or undermine the organization they support. It is true that my
> clients have worked diligently to evaluate the mission, activities,
> finances, and procedures of AMSAT. Specifically, they have taken steps
> to increase the financial transparency of AMSAT, enforce the provisions
> of its existing bylaws, and obtain access to corporate and financial
> documents. They have done all of this work as volunteers, deeply
> invested in the well-being and success of AMSAT as an organization.
> While I understand that certain AMSAT officials may interpret my
> clients? actions to be critical of their personal actions, it is simply
> not true that AMSAT as an organization is ?under attack.? The broad
> dissemination of a statement to the contrary is false, harms Ms.
> Thompson?s and Mr. Stoddard?s ability to serve AMSAT and calls into
> question their integrity.
>
> As you know, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard were improperly denied
> access to AMSAT?s corporate records. They had to retain my firm just to
> be able to carry out their corporate responsibilities as Directors.
> They now are questioning the propriety of the legal expenditures as
> they have not been given any evidence that these expenses were ever
> approved by board action, much less in advance of the engagement, as is
> required by Article II, Section 1 of AMSAT?s bylaws. One of the
> principal fiduciary responsibilities of all board members is to obey
> the provisions of the organization?s governing documents. Rather than
> ?disrupt and possibly defame? or ?publicly attack the integrity and
> honor? of AMSAT Officers and Directors, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard
> have merely been trying to review whether the AMSAT board has met this
> important fiduciary obligation.
>
> You noted, ?[t]he only powers that Directors have is when the Board is
> in session and Board members make their vote? ? and yet, we are not
> aware of any Board meeting in which this Letter was discussed. The fact
> that five of the current Directors have decided to sign this letter
> without conferring as a Board is good evidence that Directors may
> choose to exercise his or her individual oversight role in the absence
> of a Board meeting.
>
> In conclusion, my clients are doing their best to improve financial
> transparency and good governance in AMSAT. We agree that ?a poisonous
> atmosphere makes it impossible for good ideas to be heard? and my
> clients both wish to create instead an ?atmosphere of collaboration and
> common purpose.? They ran on a reform platform and were duly elected by
> the members to carry out that mandate.
>
> With this letter, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard formally request that
> the Letter be retracted and removed from AMSAT?s public website.
> Alternatively, the Letter should, in consultation with my clients, be
> corrected to accurately reflect the reality of their interactions with
> AMSAT and its Board. Given that the unfounded accusations against my
> clients harm their reputation and question their integrity, we request
> action be taken no later than ten (10) days after the receipt of this
> demand.
>
> We look forward to your prompt attention to this matter.
>
> Sincerely,
> Carolyn A. Klamp, Counsel
>
>
> cc: Dr. Tom Clark
>     Keith Baker,
>     Jerry Buxton,
>     Dr. Mark Hammond,
>     Paul Stoetzer,
>     Martha Saragovitz,
>     Robert Bankston,
>     Drew Glasbrenner,
>     Bruce Paige
>     Michelle Thompson
>     Patrick Stoddard
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From k9jkm at comcast.net  Mon Jul 27 18:43:11 2020
From: k9jkm at comcast.net (JoAnne K9JKM)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 13:43:11 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Searching AMSAT Archives Using Google 'Site:' Tool
Message-ID: <5F1F203F.9070701@comcast.net>

It is possible to search the Amsat-BB archives by using the "site:"
command in Google.

For example, to find all mentions of the word "Diplexer" in amsat-BB,
type this line into Google:

   Diplexer site:http://amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb
   
To restrict the search to a particular year, type:
   Diplexer site:http://amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2014

The 'site' command is also applicable to the AMSAT News Service archives at:
https://amsat.org/pipermail/ans/
  
(via Dan Schultz N8FGV, posted in ANS-267 bulletins, September 24, 2017)

-- 
73 de JoAnne K9JKM
k9jkm at amsat.org


From almetco at comcast.net  Mon Jul 27 18:52:00 2020
From: almetco at comcast.net (Greg)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 14:52:00 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c8oGedGTjntGxzj9nfGGLVuq4c4kZN9id3+mbkpQjWmUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN6TEUc29OmjtBpY_28cgTQ_h1J85oatCNYP21HbBM0FfmHozQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c8oGedGTjntGxzj9nfGGLVuq4c4kZN9id3+mbkpQjWmUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <257E2184-0528-427F-91BA-32EF568BEE13@comcast.net>

Joseph,

Agree?.

The optics of their defense saying they are making AMSAT better just isn?t there.  Why?  Its a volunteer organization, funded by grants, dues and volunteer labor.  It is not the C-suite or BOD of an S and P 100. Firing lawyer letters back and forth is an ego contest in their best interests, not the organizations.  That includes both sides.

Greg
N3MVF



On Jul 27, 2020, at 2:42 PM, Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

Patrick,

I am an AMSAT Life Member and i'm just going to ask you, can you
please step down from being an AMSAT director?  It's obviously not
working out well for you (and others).  I mean, we can all see why
AMSAT is blowing money on attorneys now....  This is a concrete reason
to NOT to vote for anyone that you or Michelle Thompson recommend.
Spamming the BB with a letter like this, is highly unprofessional and
does not bring you much credibility in my book.  These are the kinds
of matters that professionals resolve privately.  By sending this to
the BB, I can only assume that all you and Michelle want attention.

Well, congratulations for possibly leading to more AMSAT funds being
blown on useless legal nonsense, instead of actual satellite work.
This is outstanding, officer / director work for the organization and
I personally do NOT thank you for it.

Honestly though, this is just getting stupid.  Just because people are
voted onto a board or into a position of office, doesn't mean that the
people voted in are any good for the job or working with the
organization.  Or... even know how to work well with others.  In any
election, there are masses of uninformed voters and/or individuals
that run under false-pretenses.  Just look at the last Florida
gubernatorial election and where Andrew Gillum ended up (naked, asleep
in his own vomit, with an escort overdosed on meth)... Gooooooooo,
democracy.

The directors that are putting AMSAT through this should all step
down, immediately.  Just because you were duly elected, doesn't mean
you are doing a good job or representing AMSAT well (All attempts at
virtuosity aside).  Do us all a favor, step down from your positions
please.  This is the best service you can offer AMSAT.

Thank You,
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 1:02 PM Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via
AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> 
> The following is the text of a letter sent on behalf of Michelle
> Thompson W5NYV and me to AMSAT President Clayton Coleman W5PFG,
> along with everyone who co-signed Clayton's letter of 10 July 2020.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
> 
> 
> 
> *********************************
> Text of forwarded letter is below
> *********************************
> 
> 
> 
> 
> July 27, 2020
> 
> AMSAT Board Members
> Clayton Coleman, President
> 
> 
> Dear Sirs and Madam:
> 
> I am writing in my capacity as counsel to Michelle Thompson and Patrick
> Stoddard regarding the letter to members entitled ?AMSAT Leadership
> Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses? posted on July 10, 2020 (?Letter?).
> Through the course of my representation of my clients, I know that
> information included in this letter is patently false and defamatory
> and has resulted in reputational harm to Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard.
> On behalf of my clients, I demand that appropriate corrective action be
> taken to address these falsehoods and prevent further harm to their
> reputations.
> 
> The most egregious falsehood, among several, is the statement that
> AMSAT is ?under attack? by my clients. Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard
> have consistently worked to improve AMSAT ? and have done nothing to
> attack or undermine the organization they support. It is true that my
> clients have worked diligently to evaluate the mission, activities,
> finances, and procedures of AMSAT. Specifically, they have taken steps
> to increase the financial transparency of AMSAT, enforce the provisions
> of its existing bylaws, and obtain access to corporate and financial
> documents. They have done all of this work as volunteers, deeply
> invested in the well-being and success of AMSAT as an organization.
> While I understand that certain AMSAT officials may interpret my
> clients? actions to be critical of their personal actions, it is simply
> not true that AMSAT as an organization is ?under attack.? The broad
> dissemination of a statement to the contrary is false, harms Ms.
> Thompson?s and Mr. Stoddard?s ability to serve AMSAT and calls into
> question their integrity.
> 
> As you know, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard were improperly denied
> access to AMSAT?s corporate records. They had to retain my firm just to
> be able to carry out their corporate responsibilities as Directors.
> They now are questioning the propriety of the legal expenditures as
> they have not been given any evidence that these expenses were ever
> approved by board action, much less in advance of the engagement, as is
> required by Article II, Section 1 of AMSAT?s bylaws. One of the
> principal fiduciary responsibilities of all board members is to obey
> the provisions of the organization?s governing documents. Rather than
> ?disrupt and possibly defame? or ?publicly attack the integrity and
> honor? of AMSAT Officers and Directors, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard
> have merely been trying to review whether the AMSAT board has met this
> important fiduciary obligation.
> 
> You noted, ?[t]he only powers that Directors have is when the Board is
> in session and Board members make their vote? ? and yet, we are not
> aware of any Board meeting in which this Letter was discussed. The fact
> that five of the current Directors have decided to sign this letter
> without conferring as a Board is good evidence that Directors may
> choose to exercise his or her individual oversight role in the absence
> of a Board meeting.
> 
> In conclusion, my clients are doing their best to improve financial
> transparency and good governance in AMSAT. We agree that ?a poisonous
> atmosphere makes it impossible for good ideas to be heard? and my
> clients both wish to create instead an ?atmosphere of collaboration and
> common purpose.? They ran on a reform platform and were duly elected by
> the members to carry out that mandate.
> 
> With this letter, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard formally request that
> the Letter be retracted and removed from AMSAT?s public website.
> Alternatively, the Letter should, in consultation with my clients, be
> corrected to accurately reflect the reality of their interactions with
> AMSAT and its Board. Given that the unfounded accusations against my
> clients harm their reputation and question their integrity, we request
> action be taken no later than ten (10) days after the receipt of this
> demand.
> 
> We look forward to your prompt attention to this matter.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Carolyn A. Klamp, Counsel
> 
> 
> cc: Dr. Tom Clark
>    Keith Baker,
>    Jerry Buxton,
>    Dr. Mark Hammond,
>    Paul Stoetzer,
>    Martha Saragovitz,
>    Robert Bankston,
>    Drew Glasbrenner,
>    Bruce Paige
>    Michelle Thompson
>    Patrick Stoddard
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From stephennipper at gmail.com  Mon Jul 27 19:27:12 2020
From: stephennipper at gmail.com (H. Stephen Nipper)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 13:27:12 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
In-Reply-To: <257E2184-0528-427F-91BA-32EF568BEE13@comcast.net>
References: <CAN6TEUc29OmjtBpY_28cgTQ_h1J85oatCNYP21HbBM0FfmHozQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c8oGedGTjntGxzj9nfGGLVuq4c4kZN9id3+mbkpQjWmUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<257E2184-0528-427F-91BA-32EF568BEE13@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAPf7+3oWKv_ZYskYZRyHeNYy9onO46Fu7r4c8O09D5j=yoaj4A@mail.gmail.com>

Patrick and Michelle, you got my attention. I am forwarding a check today
for the legal defense fund.

Stephen Nipper
N7DJX
Boise Idaho

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 12:59 PM Greg via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Joseph,
>
> Agree?.
>
> The optics of their defense saying they are making AMSAT better just isn?t
> there.  Why?  Its a volunteer organization, funded by grants, dues and
> volunteer labor.  It is not the C-suite or BOD of an S and P 100. Firing
> lawyer letters back and forth is an ego contest in their best interests,
> not the organizations.  That includes both sides.
>
> Greg
> N3MVF
>
>
>
> On Jul 27, 2020, at 2:42 PM, Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Patrick,
>
> I am an AMSAT Life Member and i'm just going to ask you, can you
> please step down from being an AMSAT director?  It's obviously not
> working out well for you (and others).  I mean, we can all see why
> AMSAT is blowing money on attorneys now....  This is a concrete reason
> to NOT to vote for anyone that you or Michelle Thompson recommend.
> Spamming the BB with a letter like this, is highly unprofessional and
> does not bring you much credibility in my book.  These are the kinds
> of matters that professionals resolve privately.  By sending this to
> the BB, I can only assume that all you and Michelle want attention.
>
> Well, congratulations for possibly leading to more AMSAT funds being
> blown on useless legal nonsense, instead of actual satellite work.
> This is outstanding, officer / director work for the organization and
> I personally do NOT thank you for it.
>
> Honestly though, this is just getting stupid.  Just because people are
> voted onto a board or into a position of office, doesn't mean that the
> people voted in are any good for the job or working with the
> organization.  Or... even know how to work well with others.  In any
> election, there are masses of uninformed voters and/or individuals
> that run under false-pretenses.  Just look at the last Florida
> gubernatorial election and where Andrew Gillum ended up (naked, asleep
> in his own vomit, with an escort overdosed on meth)... Gooooooooo,
> democracy.
>
> The directors that are putting AMSAT through this should all step
> down, immediately.  Just because you were duly elected, doesn't mean
> you are doing a good job or representing AMSAT well (All attempts at
> virtuosity aside).  Do us all a favor, step down from your positions
> please.  This is the best service you can offer AMSAT.
>
> Thank You,
> Joseph Armbruster
> KJ4JIO
>
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 1:02 PM Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via
> AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi.
> >
> > The following is the text of a letter sent on behalf of Michelle
> > Thompson W5NYV and me to AMSAT President Clayton Coleman W5PFG,
> > along with everyone who co-signed Clayton's letter of 10 July 2020.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> > http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> > Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
> >
> >
> >
> > *********************************
> > Text of forwarded letter is below
> > *********************************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > July 27, 2020
> >
> > AMSAT Board Members
> > Clayton Coleman, President
> >
> >
> > Dear Sirs and Madam:
> >
> > I am writing in my capacity as counsel to Michelle Thompson and Patrick
> > Stoddard regarding the letter to members entitled ?AMSAT Leadership
> > Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses? posted on July 10, 2020 (?Letter?).
> > Through the course of my representation of my clients, I know that
> > information included in this letter is patently false and defamatory
> > and has resulted in reputational harm to Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard.
> > On behalf of my clients, I demand that appropriate corrective action be
> > taken to address these falsehoods and prevent further harm to their
> > reputations.
> >
> > The most egregious falsehood, among several, is the statement that
> > AMSAT is ?under attack? by my clients. Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard
> > have consistently worked to improve AMSAT ? and have done nothing to
> > attack or undermine the organization they support. It is true that my
> > clients have worked diligently to evaluate the mission, activities,
> > finances, and procedures of AMSAT. Specifically, they have taken steps
> > to increase the financial transparency of AMSAT, enforce the provisions
> > of its existing bylaws, and obtain access to corporate and financial
> > documents. They have done all of this work as volunteers, deeply
> > invested in the well-being and success of AMSAT as an organization.
> > While I understand that certain AMSAT officials may interpret my
> > clients? actions to be critical of their personal actions, it is simply
> > not true that AMSAT as an organization is ?under attack.? The broad
> > dissemination of a statement to the contrary is false, harms Ms.
> > Thompson?s and Mr. Stoddard?s ability to serve AMSAT and calls into
> > question their integrity.
> >
> > As you know, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard were improperly denied
> > access to AMSAT?s corporate records. They had to retain my firm just to
> > be able to carry out their corporate responsibilities as Directors.
> > They now are questioning the propriety of the legal expenditures as
> > they have not been given any evidence that these expenses were ever
> > approved by board action, much less in advance of the engagement, as is
> > required by Article II, Section 1 of AMSAT?s bylaws. One of the
> > principal fiduciary responsibilities of all board members is to obey
> > the provisions of the organization?s governing documents. Rather than
> > ?disrupt and possibly defame? or ?publicly attack the integrity and
> > honor? of AMSAT Officers and Directors, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard
> > have merely been trying to review whether the AMSAT board has met this
> > important fiduciary obligation.
> >
> > You noted, ?[t]he only powers that Directors have is when the Board is
> > in session and Board members make their vote? ? and yet, we are not
> > aware of any Board meeting in which this Letter was discussed. The fact
> > that five of the current Directors have decided to sign this letter
> > without conferring as a Board is good evidence that Directors may
> > choose to exercise his or her individual oversight role in the absence
> > of a Board meeting.
> >
> > In conclusion, my clients are doing their best to improve financial
> > transparency and good governance in AMSAT. We agree that ?a poisonous
> > atmosphere makes it impossible for good ideas to be heard? and my
> > clients both wish to create instead an ?atmosphere of collaboration and
> > common purpose.? They ran on a reform platform and were duly elected by
> > the members to carry out that mandate.
> >
> > With this letter, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard formally request that
> > the Letter be retracted and removed from AMSAT?s public website.
> > Alternatively, the Letter should, in consultation with my clients, be
> > corrected to accurately reflect the reality of their interactions with
> > AMSAT and its Board. Given that the unfounded accusations against my
> > clients harm their reputation and question their integrity, we request
> > action be taken no later than ten (10) days after the receipt of this
> > demand.
> >
> > We look forward to your prompt attention to this matter.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Carolyn A. Klamp, Counsel
> >
> >
> > cc: Dr. Tom Clark
> >    Keith Baker,
> >    Jerry Buxton,
> >    Dr. Mark Hammond,
> >    Paul Stoetzer,
> >    Martha Saragovitz,
> >    Robert Bankston,
> >    Drew Glasbrenner,
> >    Bruce Paige
> >    Michelle Thompson
> >    Patrick Stoddard
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
Stephen Nipper
Boise, Idaho
N7DJX

From bruce at perens.com  Mon Jul 27 19:32:01 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 12:32:01 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
In-Reply-To: <257E2184-0528-427F-91BA-32EF568BEE13@comcast.net>
References: <CAN6TEUc29OmjtBpY_28cgTQ_h1J85oatCNYP21HbBM0FfmHozQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c8oGedGTjntGxzj9nfGGLVuq4c4kZN9id3+mbkpQjWmUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<257E2184-0528-427F-91BA-32EF568BEE13@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOsHszZMroqS=-kysfjxqpiaL-EK-qkK4NBOD1qUa8JL=Q@mail.gmail.com>

Why do I have to remind you that by the incumbent board's own written
admission, they hired lawyers against Michelle and Patrick long before
Michelle and Patrick saw the need to hire an attorney.

Why should Patrick and Michelle step down rather than fight a board that -
in  my direct experience - repeatedly can't follow its own bylaws and has
shown a complete inability to handle opposition in a democratic manner?

Why shouldn't we be calling for the incumbents to step down?

    Bruce Perens K6BP

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Mon Jul 27 19:44:11 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 15:44:11 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOsHszZMroqS=-kysfjxqpiaL-EK-qkK4NBOD1qUa8JL=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN6TEUc29OmjtBpY_28cgTQ_h1J85oatCNYP21HbBM0FfmHozQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c8oGedGTjntGxzj9nfGGLVuq4c4kZN9id3+mbkpQjWmUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<257E2184-0528-427F-91BA-32EF568BEE13@comcast.net>
	<CAK2MWOsHszZMroqS=-kysfjxqpiaL-EK-qkK4NBOD1qUa8JL=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c8nFpdLBWaWY3wg3-peuO+Og+24RCGYVRkJNZm_Ewo7vQ@mail.gmail.com>

Bruce,

Can you start your own amateur space organization?  And, take all the
people that want to follow with you.  That would honestly be better
for everyone.

This is all un-necessary, un-professional and Actually Avoidable.
That's the worst part.  And those who do not want to avoid this
nonsense are going to propagate it, making everyone in a good
organization suffer.

Thanks,
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO


On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 3:32 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>
> Why do I have to remind you that by the incumbent board's own written admission, they hired lawyers against Michelle and Patrick long before Michelle and Patrick saw the need to hire an attorney.
>
> Why should Patrick and Michelle step down rather than fight a board that - in  my direct experience - repeatedly can't follow its own bylaws and has shown a complete inability to handle opposition in a democratic manner?
>
> Why shouldn't we be calling for the incumbents to step down?
>
>     Bruce Perens K6BP

From kl0s at cox.net  Mon Jul 27 19:46:10 2020
From: kl0s at cox.net (Dino Papas)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 15:46:10 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Sorry to Leave...Let Me Know When the BS is Done
Message-ID: <96D1E3B7-59D2-4E14-802C-8E906EA4678A@cox.net>

Can someone let me know when all the political diatribe is done with so I can resubscribe to the mail list and just hear about satellites?

TNX!

Dino KL?S

From bruce at perens.com  Mon Jul 27 20:20:09 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 13:20:09 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c8nFpdLBWaWY3wg3-peuO+Og+24RCGYVRkJNZm_Ewo7vQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN6TEUc29OmjtBpY_28cgTQ_h1J85oatCNYP21HbBM0FfmHozQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c8oGedGTjntGxzj9nfGGLVuq4c4kZN9id3+mbkpQjWmUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<257E2184-0528-427F-91BA-32EF568BEE13@comcast.net>
	<CAK2MWOsHszZMroqS=-kysfjxqpiaL-EK-qkK4NBOD1qUa8JL=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c8nFpdLBWaWY3wg3-peuO+Og+24RCGYVRkJNZm_Ewo7vQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOvPH=DzaHDmfgFg9a+WzHQeZhxyWLyBfi5DtwOMt2Ja0w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 12:42 PM Joseph Armbruster <
josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:

> Can you start your own amateur space organization?


You mean the one that just got three different grants that, in a better
time, would have gone to AMSAT?
The one that is designing the 6U microwave transponder for space use, and
the ground station to go with it?
The one that is operated with a sufficient level of transparency that
participants can get their technical projects done, and can collect funds
for them without their being diverted elsewhere?
The one where technical discussion dominates their mailing lists, and the
most controversial subject is how to spend their money?

I founded ORI with Michelle, and wrote the $3500 check to carry out its
501(c)3 acceptance (my largest donation ever to any organization),
because we needed to get our projects done in the face of AMSAT's board
being intractable. It should never have been necessary. We were not aware
that AMSAT had already hired lawyers against Michelle and Patrick when we
formed ORI. Obviously, this would have given us more reason. But we applied
for and were accepted for an AMSAT organizational membership, because our
intent was NOT to replace AMSAT but to fix it.

As you know, I previously lobbied, successfully, to replace a large portion
of the ARRL board and end the confidentiality vs. transparency debacle
there. Ironically, there are many parallels to the situation here,
including a board that chose to publicly libel one of their directors for
his attempt to reform them, a thing that the succeeding board wisely
withdrew.

Before that, I lobbied to end Morse code testing as a criterion for Amateur
licensing, also succeeding. Even though people pleaded with me to allow
Amateur Radio to "die with dignity".

Both of those things required working against ARRL, when ARRL *and the
majority of its own membership *were barriers to the advancement of Amateur
Radio. Fortunately, that was not the case internationally, and IARU voted,
against the urging of ARRL - their own international directorate - to work
to end the code testing requirement. Today, more people use CW on the air
than ever! Everybody won!

You don't achieve these things by backing down.

    Thanks

    Bruce

From KA9QJG at COMCAST.NET  Mon Jul 27 20:59:01 2020
From: KA9QJG at COMCAST.NET (KA9QJG)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 15:59:01 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOvPH=DzaHDmfgFg9a+WzHQeZhxyWLyBfi5DtwOMt2Ja0w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN6TEUc29OmjtBpY_28cgTQ_h1J85oatCNYP21HbBM0FfmHozQ@mail.gmail.com>	<CADkz4c8oGedGTjntGxzj9nfGGLVuq4c4kZN9id3+mbkpQjWmUw@mail.gmail.com>	<257E2184-0528-427F-91BA-32EF568BEE13@comcast.net>	<CAK2MWOsHszZMroqS=-kysfjxqpiaL-EK-qkK4NBOD1qUa8JL=Q@mail.gmail.com>	<CADkz4c8nFpdLBWaWY3wg3-peuO+Og+24RCGYVRkJNZm_Ewo7vQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvPH=DzaHDmfgFg9a+WzHQeZhxyWLyBfi5DtwOMt2Ja0w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006d01d66458$c1f13b40$45d3b1c0$@COMCAST.NET>

You Ask 
> Can you start your own amateur space organization?


YES   it  is called  the https://www.spaceforce.mil/   

Everyone Stay Safe and Healthy With the way the  world is now a little humor
helps 

73 Don KA9QJG


From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Mon Jul 27 21:07:42 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 17:07:42 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
In-Reply-To: <CAK2MWOvPH=DzaHDmfgFg9a+WzHQeZhxyWLyBfi5DtwOMt2Ja0w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN6TEUc29OmjtBpY_28cgTQ_h1J85oatCNYP21HbBM0FfmHozQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c8oGedGTjntGxzj9nfGGLVuq4c4kZN9id3+mbkpQjWmUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<257E2184-0528-427F-91BA-32EF568BEE13@comcast.net>
	<CAK2MWOsHszZMroqS=-kysfjxqpiaL-EK-qkK4NBOD1qUa8JL=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c8nFpdLBWaWY3wg3-peuO+Og+24RCGYVRkJNZm_Ewo7vQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvPH=DzaHDmfgFg9a+WzHQeZhxyWLyBfi5DtwOMt2Ja0w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c_ep69826_PPEkW0i3NoJ2-wbr_HAi5dgkDxaXiJrvGbw@mail.gmail.com>

Bruce,

None of the questions you asked mean anything tangible, but they make
it sound like a lot is going on.  Is there?  I don't know?  To the
contrary, many public private grants and contracts are awarded and
produce absolutely nothing or are awarded for all the wrong reasons
and end up suffering down the line (being scrubbed, re-competed,
etc...).  How long have the projects been taking place and what has
actually been produced?  Is there a transponder?  Is there a ground
station?

So with all the amateur radio in space work ORI is getting now, is it
directly competing with AMSAT at this point or is it still trying to
'fix' AMSAT?

>From the looks of the AMSAT bylaws, having an 'AMSAT organizational
membership' (Member Society, proper noun), eally just means you
submitted an application and paid a fee.  Any organization could do
the same and would likely get accepted (membership-fees applied).

When you say """We were not aware that AMSAT had already hired lawyers
against Michelle and Patrick when we formed ORI.""".  That's a red
flag in my mind, and it begs the question, why?  And i'm not actually
asking you why, but i'm asking the membership to consider why this
could be.  My individual observation is that AMSAT never hired an
attorney 'against' me, or any volunteering members in the past, at
least the ones I know personally.  So, there must be a difference or
other information / circumstances.

Congratulations on lobbying to end morse code.  Just imagine the
number of Amateur radio users there would be, if we just lobbied to
get rid of the permits.

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO


On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 4:20 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 12:42 PM Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Can you start your own amateur space organization?
>
>
> You mean the one that just got three different grants that, in a better time, would have gone to AMSAT?
> The one that is designing the 6U microwave transponder for space use, and the ground station to go with it?
> The one that is operated with a sufficient level of transparency that participants can get their technical projects done, and can collect funds for them without their being diverted elsewhere?
> The one where technical discussion dominates their mailing lists, and the most controversial subject is how to spend their money?
>
> I founded ORI with Michelle, and wrote the $3500 check to carry out its 501(c)3 acceptance (my largest donation ever to any organization), because we needed to get our projects done in the face of AMSAT's board being intractable. It should never have been necessary. We were not aware that AMSAT had already hired lawyers against Michelle and Patrick when we formed ORI. Obviously, this would have given us more reason. But we applied for and were accepted for an AMSAT organizational membership, because our intent was NOT to replace AMSAT but to fix it.
>
> As you know, I previously lobbied, successfully, to replace a large portion of the ARRL board and end the confidentiality vs. transparency debacle there. Ironically, there are many parallels to the situation here, including a board that chose to publicly libel one of their directors for his attempt to reform them, a thing that the succeeding board wisely withdrew.
>
> Before that, I lobbied to end Morse code testing as a criterion for Amateur licensing, also succeeding. Even though people pleaded with me to allow Amateur Radio to "die with dignity".
>
> Both of those things required working against ARRL, when ARRL and the majority of its own membership were barriers to the advancement of Amateur Radio. Fortunately, that was not the case internationally, and IARU voted, against the urging of ARRL - their own international directorate - to work to end the code testing requirement. Today, more people use CW on the air than ever! Everybody won!
>
> You don't achieve these things by backing down.
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Bruce
>
>
>
>

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Mon Jul 27 21:57:21 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 16:57:21 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
In-Reply-To: <CAN6TEUc29OmjtBpY_28cgTQ_h1J85oatCNYP21HbBM0FfmHozQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN6TEUc29OmjtBpY_28cgTQ_h1J85oatCNYP21HbBM0FfmHozQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <02efef13-6cf5-5758-46d1-0b7f63f67fb9@pobox.com>

On 2020-07-27 11:44, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> The following is the text of a letter sent on behalf of Michelle
> Thompson W5NYV and me to AMSAT President Clayton Coleman W5PFG,
> along with everyone who co-signed Clayton's letter of 10 July 2020.

Patrick and Michelle,

Well, you've definitely driven the nails into the coffin of your 
re-election campaign, and probably done the same for those in your cadre 
who are on the ballot now.

Being a leader means that sometimes things don't go your way and you 
just have to make the best of the current situation. Change takes time.

I'm not going to vote for people who chew up resources better spent on 
education, experimentation, and encouraging new amateur radio operators 
to join AMSAT.

73,

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From bruce at perens.com  Mon Jul 27 21:59:19 2020
From: bruce at perens.com (Bruce Perens)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 14:59:19 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c_ep69826_PPEkW0i3NoJ2-wbr_HAi5dgkDxaXiJrvGbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN6TEUc29OmjtBpY_28cgTQ_h1J85oatCNYP21HbBM0FfmHozQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c8oGedGTjntGxzj9nfGGLVuq4c4kZN9id3+mbkpQjWmUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<257E2184-0528-427F-91BA-32EF568BEE13@comcast.net>
	<CAK2MWOsHszZMroqS=-kysfjxqpiaL-EK-qkK4NBOD1qUa8JL=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c8nFpdLBWaWY3wg3-peuO+Og+24RCGYVRkJNZm_Ewo7vQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvPH=DzaHDmfgFg9a+WzHQeZhxyWLyBfi5DtwOMt2Ja0w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_ep69826_PPEkW0i3NoJ2-wbr_HAi5dgkDxaXiJrvGbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOvmkFfsVQrYdRruDu7vZmYPN14MLQXCJGs0dwCpE_pbpA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 2:06 PM Joseph Armbruster <
josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:

> How long have the projects been taking place and what has
> actually been produced?
>

There is quite a lot that you can find on the web site.
https://openresearch.institute/  and these github repositories:
https://github.com/phase4ground/dvb_fpga
https://github.com/phase4ground/polar
https://github.com/phase4ground/documents
https://github.com/phase4ground/DVB-receiver
It's a pretty good record for an organization started in February 2019.


> So with all the amateur radio in space work ORI is getting now, is it
> directly competing with AMSAT at this point or is it still trying to 'fix'
> AMSAT?
>

You would not see three of the candidates, plus Michelle, Patrick, and
myself were there not a desire to fix AMSAT. I think ORI has become a
viable destination for funding the future development of Amateur Satellite,
while AMSAT is not being a good destination for that presently. This can be
fixed and both organizations can receive funding for their individual
projects solely on their technical merits. IMO AMSAT loses funds today due
to problems in organizational transparency and reliability in directing
funds to the earmarked purpose. I have heard specific complaints by two
large donors, but was not authorized to relay them.

Any organization could do the same and would likely get accepted
> (membership-fees applied).
>

Actually, we were appreciative that Brennan was running this. I do not
believe it would have gone as you say otherwise.


> My individual observation is that AMSAT never hired an attorney 'against'
> me, or any volunteering members in the past, at least the ones I know
> personally.  So, there must be a difference or other information /
> circumstances.
>

Yes, there is indeed a difference. You have not acted as opposition.

As I have explained, volunteer  directors of non-profit boards sometimes do
not learn how to deal with opposition. The problem is certainly not that
Michelle and Patrick have acted as opposition, but that the incumbent board
has ineptly and undemocratically handled opposition.


> Congratulations on lobbying to end morse code.  Just imagine the number of
> Amateur radio users there would be, if we just lobbied to get rid of the
> permits.


 So, do you think I never heard this sort of poorly-though-out rationale?
Obviously I was not working to get rid of the "permits". Although Amateur
licensing increased for a time, and we headed off our *immediate *demise, *it
is no longer doing so. *Old farts like you and I, Joseph, do not matter to
the future of Amateur Radio. Obviously we need to get it working on things
that will interest young people, or it may be that we preside over the end
of ham radio within our lifetimes.

    Thanks

    Bruce

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 27 22:17:49 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (GEO Badger)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 22:17:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
In-Reply-To: <CADkz4c_ep69826_PPEkW0i3NoJ2-wbr_HAi5dgkDxaXiJrvGbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN6TEUc29OmjtBpY_28cgTQ_h1J85oatCNYP21HbBM0FfmHozQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c8oGedGTjntGxzj9nfGGLVuq4c4kZN9id3+mbkpQjWmUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<257E2184-0528-427F-91BA-32EF568BEE13@comcast.net>
	<CAK2MWOsHszZMroqS=-kysfjxqpiaL-EK-qkK4NBOD1qUa8JL=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c8nFpdLBWaWY3wg3-peuO+Og+24RCGYVRkJNZm_Ewo7vQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK2MWOvPH=DzaHDmfgFg9a+WzHQeZhxyWLyBfi5DtwOMt2Ja0w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c_ep69826_PPEkW0i3NoJ2-wbr_HAi5dgkDxaXiJrvGbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <663007991.8014864.1595888269723@mail.yahoo.com>

This Is?from someone not in the Amsat community but somewhat?knowledgeable about the biz, Jim Lux,?W6RMK.

Just a general comment on the world of amateur satellites..

It may well be that AMSAT has reached the end of its natural life - and the original purpose is no more - and this is why there is so much dissention among the board.? If there's no clear common goal, then most organizations wind up this way.? I've not followed AMSAT very closely - I'd look to folks like Courtney N5BF for that kind of info - he was big into AMSAT a few decades ago.

But in a larger picture sense - it used to be that getting a satellite into orbit, as amateurs, was quite the feat - OSCAR-1, etc. showed that it was possible. AMSAT served an immensely useful purpose in showing launch providers that the secondary payload they were going to carry was actually built by people who knew what they were doing, etc.? AMSAT was a key part of "access to space" as well as a clearinghouse for amateur satellite design and construction information.
As AMSAT's web page says:
"For over 50 years, AMSAT groups in North America and elsewhere have played a key role in significantly advancing the state of the art in space science, space education, and space technology."

Three big things have changed:
1) Amateur satellites are no longer inextricably combined with Amateur radio - if you show up trying to get your satellite coordinated using amateur frequencies, and it's just for TT&C (Telemetry, Tracking, and Control), and not some sort of amateur radio communication function, you'll be told - get your license another way: The amateur satellite service is not for you. And, nobody in their right mind would use amateur radio derived designs for their small-sat telecom - being able to leverage that 30 year old hardware you found at a hamfest 20 years ago isn't a driver for most small sat project.

2) Access to space is now available to anyone with a sufficiently large wallet, where "sufficiently large" is small enough to be within the range of high school and university classes (particularly if they're getting a ride with NASA CubeSat Launch Initiative - where the "ride" is free). There's an entire world of brokers who will help you get your spacecraft into space, licensed or not (Sara Spangelo and Swarm Technologies).? And I don't think AMSAT has a better shot at getting amateur radio into GEO or HEO than any other organization. That train left the station about 10 years ago.

3) Information on how to build a spacecraft is available everywhere, and there are literally hundreds of people who have done it.

So you don't need AMSAT with its ham radio connections for licensing, nor for access to space, nor for spacecraft building info.? ?What then, is AMSAT's purpose, *today*? (other than self perpetuation and advocacy for amateur satellite work - the latter is useful, but AMSAT isn't unique there)

Let's be clear here - I do not have a particular opinion about this particular dispute - From the descriptions, some of the board members are doing bad things, or at least things other board members aren't happy about. That's certainly undesirable. But I don't see it as particularly different than factional disputes in HOA boards, ham clubs, and local service clubs/organizations.? ?

I'm commenting more because I see Amateur Radio heading towards a similar problem.? What should ARRL be advocating for? I think that encouraging microwave usage, in an experimental - advancing the art way, is a good idea. Keeping the HF spectrum unencroached on - that requires vigilance - not that I think contesting and DXCC should necessarily be amateur radio's raison d'etre, but it's a hobby, enjoyed by many, and world wide HF communication without depending on someone else's infrastructure is a cool aspect. I think a lot of people are having fun with new digital modes on HF.? VHF and UHF - cell phones have replaced the "utility" aspect of a HT and repeaters with autopatch. It's an excellent place to start - cheap, no need for big antenna, you learn a lot about propagation. I don't think that VHF is where someone who's thinking microwaves should start - we've moved beyond the "let's triple up from 144MHz to 432, and then we can triple again to 1296, using a 10m rig as an IF." Not when you can buy a DC-6GHz synthesizer chip for under $10, and a complete radio for MF to 4 or 6 GHz for $100-200.

---? 
 Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side??
73 de W3AB/GEO ??? 

 http://www.w3ab.org

You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out". 

    On Monday, July 27, 2020, 02:10:30 PM PDT, Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:  
 
 Bruce,

None of the questions you asked mean anything tangible, but they make
it sound like a lot is going on.? Is there?? I don't know?? To the
contrary, many public private grants and contracts are awarded and
produce absolutely nothing or are awarded for all the wrong reasons
and end up suffering down the line (being scrubbed, re-competed,
etc...).? How long have the projects been taking place and what has
actually been produced?? Is there a transponder?? Is there a ground
station?

So with all the amateur radio in space work ORI is getting now, is it
directly competing with AMSAT at this point or is it still trying to
'fix' AMSAT?

>From the looks of the AMSAT bylaws, having an 'AMSAT organizational
membership' (Member Society, proper noun), eally just means you
submitted an application and paid a fee.? Any organization could do
the same and would likely get accepted (membership-fees applied).

When you say """We were not aware that AMSAT had already hired lawyers
against Michelle and Patrick when we formed ORI.""".? That's a red
flag in my mind, and it begs the question, why?? And i'm not actually
asking you why, but i'm asking the membership to consider why this
could be.? My individual observation is that AMSAT never hired an
attorney 'against' me, or any volunteering members in the past, at
least the ones I know personally.? So, there must be a difference or
other information / circumstances.

Congratulations on lobbying to end morse code.? Just imagine the
number of Amateur radio users there would be, if we just lobbied to
get rid of the permits.

Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO


On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 4:20 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 12:42 PM Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Can you start your own amateur space organization?
>
>
> You mean the one that just got three different grants that, in a better time, would have gone to AMSAT?
> The one that is designing the 6U microwave transponder for space use, and the ground station to go with it?
> The one that is operated with a sufficient level of transparency that participants can get their technical projects done, and can collect funds for them without their being diverted elsewhere?
> The one where technical discussion dominates their mailing lists, and the most controversial subject is how to spend their money?
>
> I founded ORI with Michelle, and wrote the $3500 check to carry out its 501(c)3 acceptance (my largest donation ever to any organization), because we needed to get our projects done in the face of AMSAT's board being intractable. It should never have been necessary. We were not aware that AMSAT had already hired lawyers against Michelle and Patrick when we formed ORI. Obviously, this would have given us more reason. But we applied for and were accepted for an AMSAT organizational membership, because our intent was NOT to replace AMSAT but to fix it.
>
> As you know, I previously lobbied, successfully, to replace a large portion of the ARRL board and end the confidentiality vs. transparency debacle there. Ironically, there are many parallels to the situation here, including a board that chose to publicly libel one of their directors for his attempt to reform them, a thing that the succeeding board wisely withdrew.
>
> Before that, I lobbied to end Morse code testing as a criterion for Amateur licensing, also succeeding. Even though people pleaded with me to allow Amateur Radio to "die with dignity".
>
> Both of those things required working against ARRL, when ARRL and the majority of its own membership were barriers to the advancement of Amateur Radio. Fortunately, that was not the case internationally, and IARU voted, against the urging of ARRL - their own international directorate - to work to end the code testing requirement. Today, more people use CW on the air than ever! Everybody won!
>
> You don't achieve these things by backing down.
>
>? ? Thanks
>
>? ? Bruce
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
  

From kk5do at arrl.net  Mon Jul 27 22:21:31 2020
From: kk5do at arrl.net (Bruce)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 17:21:31 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Awards Update
References: <d29702bc-da06-5095-a995-023726239620.ref@arrl.net>
Message-ID: <d29702bc-da06-5095-a995-023726239620@arrl.net>

Here are the awards issued in the last two months.


AMSAT Satellite Communicators Award for making their first satellite QSO

Anthony Rizi, NR1Z
Edward Hartzel, W3HMK
James Brooks, KB3EFH
Vilanova University ARC, W3YP
Robin Shelley, G8VVY

------

AMSAT Communications Achievement Award

Anthony Rizi, NR1Z, #628
Angus Alexander, KJ7KOJ, #629

------

AMSAT Sexagesimal Satellite Communications Achievement Award

Stephan Greene, KS1G, #187
Casey Tucker, KI7UNJ, #188

------


AMSAT South Africa Satellite Communications Achievement Award

Anthony Rizi, NR1Z, #US230
Casey Tucker, KI7UNJ, #US231
Angus Alexander, KJ7KOJ, #US232

------


AMSAT Robert W. Barbee Jr., W4AMI Award (1,000-4,000)

Mitchell Whitman, N4DCW, #110
Mark Johns, K0JM, #111
David Hoffman, KL1XI, #112
Phillip Sauvey, AK7DD, #113
Dennis Love, N7EGY, #114
Kell Bodholt, KI7UXT, upgrade to 2000


------

AMSAT Rover Award

Rover???????? Call
=====???????? ========
#054????????? N0TEL
#055????????? AK7DD
#056????????? KE0WPA


------

GridMaster Award


GridMaster???????? Call
==========???????? ========
#11??????????????? KO4MA
#12??????????????? N4UFO
#13??????????????? W5CBF

To see all the awards visit http://www.amsat.org and click on
Services then Awards.


73...bruce

-- 

Bruce Paige, KK5DO

AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
AMSAT Board Member 2016-2020

ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE

Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT*
Also live streaming MP3 at http://www.amsatnet.com
Podcast at http://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes

Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News
http://www.arrl.org

AMSAT on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/amsat



From ab5xs at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 27 23:14:05 2020
From: ab5xs at yahoo.com (Jim Davis)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 23:14:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] (no subject)
References: <E8AB86AF346920BA.BF6B420A-5C2C-4B77-BB13-68F49624660B.ref@mail.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <E8AB86AF346920BA.BF6B420A-5C2C-4B77-BB13-68F49624660B@mail.outlook.com>


  
  
  
    
    	
    	

    	

    	Department of Redundancy Dept.
    
  

From alozias at live.com  Tue Jul 28 00:04:28 2020
From: alozias at live.com (Albert Ozias)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 00:04:28 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Signal to Noise ratio
Message-ID: <MWHPR02MB2414F908EA7E237454A74A99C0720@MWHPR02MB2414.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Do preamps improve the signal to noise ratio or simply amplify signal and noise?

From ko6th.greg at gmail.com  Tue Jul 28 00:13:02 2020
From: ko6th.greg at gmail.com (Greg D)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 17:13:02 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Signal to Noise ratio
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR02MB2414F908EA7E237454A74A99C0720@MWHPR02MB2414.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MWHPR02MB2414F908EA7E237454A74A99C0720@MWHPR02MB2414.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <a65a23f6-4918-c7a4-bab5-b7c00bc95e1c@gmail.com>

"yes"

An amplifier can only amplify what it's fed, both signal and noise, and
adds a little noise of its own.  If it's positioned at the antenna it
will work a lot better than if it's at the other end of the feed line at
the radio.  You want to amplify the signal before the noise induced by
the coax can get in there.

Greg  KO6TH


Albert Ozias via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Do preamps improve the signal to noise ratio or simply amplify signal and noise?
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From tnetcenter at gmail.com  Tue Jul 28 00:34:23 2020
From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 17:34:23 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Easy and FUN Antenna Projects
In-Reply-To: <CADGPg2uVQWpM50eM74_bD9H-XyhVUsW5SGqEsXk9=jAKbxL40g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADGPg2uVQWpM50eM74_bD9H-XyhVUsW5SGqEsXk9=jAKbxL40g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALx_moSA2mTAjoMBjsQjW9_7ChUoTQexr-993hOw=_3rgu0ELQ@mail.gmail.com>

Who's "CLOGGING" the Internet now with this garbage??

Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 5:11 AM Roy Dean via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> Ok, Clint.   Then I'll call it as I see it:   Please stop clogging the
> internet with your personal web page propaganda.
>
>
> --Roy
> K3RLD
>
>
> > Roy Dean:
> >
> > You need a little education.
> >
> > ?Spam? is irrelevant or inappropriate messages sent indiscriminately to
> all audiences.
> >
> > ?Advertising? is the activity or profession of producing ads for
> commercial products or services.
> >
> > What do I offer on my Web site? Information. Free-of-charge. No product
> nor service that
> > benefits me personally.
> >
> > SO ? What I did - post ANTENNA PROJECTS to groups entitled ?antennas,?
> ?satellites,? and
> > ?DIY Projects? is really quite an appropriate use of the ?Net. No spam.
> Target audiences.
> >
> > Clint Bradford K6LCS
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Tue Jul 28 00:37:36 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 19:37:36 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Signal to Noise ratio
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR02MB2414F908EA7E237454A74A99C0720@MWHPR02MB2414.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MWHPR02MB2414F908EA7E237454A74A99C0720@MWHPR02MB2414.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <ac3323bb-3889-8135-cdfb-ffadd4989c5c@pobox.com>

On 2020-07-27 19:04, Albert Ozias via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Do preamps improve the signal to noise ratio or simply amplify signal and noise?

Hello Albert,

No, a preamp cannot improve the SNR of the signal at its input terminal(s).

All amplifiers add noise to the signal that they are amplifying, and 
that added noise can't be removed.

That's the key point: An analog signal's SNR only goes down, never up.

The RF energy intercepted by your antenna is immediately combined with 
other sources of noise, mostly thermal noise, on the way to your radio 
for eventual demodulation.

A LNA (low-noise amplifier) does this while adding a minimum of noise to 
the signal. This prevents the SNR from degrading to a point where useful 
information can no longer be recovered from the demodulated signal, be 
it analog (voice) or digital (data).

Also note that your radio also adds its own measure of noise to the 
incoming signal, degrading the SNR. However, if the SNR has been 
preserved from the antenna through the LNA and coax, then the noise that 
the radio adds will not degrade the SNR appreciably.

This topic is involved and sometimes complex, but rewarding!

--- Zach
N0ZGO


From w3ab at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 28 03:10:07 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 20:10:07 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Signal to Noise ratio
In-Reply-To: <ac3323bb-3889-8135-cdfb-ffadd4989c5c@pobox.com>
References: <MWHPR02MB2414F908EA7E237454A74A99C0720@MWHPR02MB2414.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
	<ac3323bb-3889-8135-cdfb-ffadd4989c5c@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <d77e6ab3-aa0c-44da-8937-7f04367b910b@yahoo.com>

To add to the excellent info Zach gave, the LNA should be mounted as close to the antenna as possible.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 27, 2020, 17:39, at 17:39, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>On 2020-07-27 19:04, Albert Ozias via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>> Do preamps improve the signal to noise ratio or simply amplify signal
>and noise?
>
>Hello Albert,
>
>No, a preamp cannot improve the SNR of the signal at its input
>terminal(s).
>
>All amplifiers add noise to the signal that they are amplifying, and 
>that added noise can't be removed.
>
>That's the key point: An analog signal's SNR only goes down, never up.
>
>The RF energy intercepted by your antenna is immediately combined with 
>other sources of noise, mostly thermal noise, on the way to your radio 
>for eventual demodulation.
>
>A LNA (low-noise amplifier) does this while adding a minimum of noise
>to 
>the signal. This prevents the SNR from degrading to a point where
>useful 
>information can no longer be recovered from the demodulated signal, be 
>it analog (voice) or digital (data).
>
>Also note that your radio also adds its own measure of noise to the 
>incoming signal, degrading the SNR. However, if the SNR has been 
>preserved from the antenna through the LNA and coax, then the noise
>that 
>the radio adds will not degrade the SNR appreciably.
>
>This topic is involved and sometimes complex, but rewarding!
>
>--- Zach
>N0ZGO
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From zleffke at vt.edu  Tue Jul 28 13:28:49 2020
From: zleffke at vt.edu (Leffke, Zachary)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 13:28:49 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Signal to Noise ratio
In-Reply-To: <d77e6ab3-aa0c-44da-8937-7f04367b910b@yahoo.com>
References: <MWHPR02MB2414F908EA7E237454A74A99C0720@MWHPR02MB2414.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
	<ac3323bb-3889-8135-cdfb-ffadd4989c5c@pobox.com>
	<d77e6ab3-aa0c-44da-8937-7f04367b910b@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR05MB70379E704E3B65434DF0B375DF730@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

An EXCELLENT topic of conversation, and one I keep circling back to over and over and over.......

But to keep this one short, if interested in the math behind why a preamp close to the antenna terminals is important, I invite you to read this article from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friis_formulas_for_noise

The key point here is the G1 value (gain of first device) is in the denominator of every term in the equation......this is why you want a high gain preamp, to keep those terms small. The Noise Factor of the first device, F1,  (linear version of noise figure) is the first term in the equation and is NOT normalized by any other gain term.......this is why you want a low noise figure for the preamp.  The first device in the above equation tends to set the *system* noise figure.....this is why you want that first device to be a high gain, low noise amplifier.  The antenna is not included in the above equation, but requires some more description to get to *system* noise figure (required for things like link budget analysis and computing SNR).

The Friis noise equation gives you what I like to call the 'component' noise factor (which can be converted to noise figure and then to noise temperature), referred to the INPUT of the preamp (output of the antenna).  Then there's the antenna noise temperature (insert lots of other math here.....a good first cut for antenna noise, without doing all the integrals....is around 200 Kelvin, a bit less than 'warm earth' at 290K).  'component' noise temp, plus 'antenna' noise temp = 'system' noise temp  (all in Kelvin).  system noise temp can then be converted to system noise figure, NF_sys (dB).  

When computing noise floor (aka Minimum detectable signal, MDS), the equation is: MDS [dBm]= -174 dbm/hz + 10log10(receiver/signal bandwidth in Hz) + NF_sys [dB].

As a quick side note, it is common to refer things to the antenna terminals.  This is somewhat arbitrary, but its important that the reference point be tracked.  This is also why you do not include things like preamp gain, coax loss, IF gain, etc. in the figure of merit calculation (also galled G/T).  The Friis Equation above already accounts for all of that in the computation that is referred to the input of the preamp.  So once you get noise temperature, all you have to do is take antenna gain over the *system* noise temperature to get *system* G/T.  G/T is a simple way to compare one ground station to another, whoever has a large G/T has a larger SNR (and it doesn't matter how they achieved that G/T....whether they have cryogenic LNAs, or huge antenna gain......G/T is G/T).  If your station has 3 dB more G/T than my station, you've got 3 dB more SNR than my station.


There's lots of details I skipped.....but fun topic!  Excellent question.  I once asked a similar question (about Eb/No....digital version of SNR) on a research contract of some of my colleagues...and got to see three PhDs argue over what the 'meaning' of SNR (and Eb/No) is for over an hour......super informative and fun to watch!

-Zach, KJ4QLP
-- 
Research Associate
Aerospace & Ocean Systems Lab
Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
Work Phone: 540-231-4174
Cell Phone: 540-808-6305

-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> On Behalf Of W3AB/GEO via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2020 11:10 PM
To: Zach Metzinger <zmetzing at pobox.com>
Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Signal to Noise ratio

To add to the excellent info Zach gave, the LNA should be mounted as close to the antenna as possible.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 27, 2020, 17:39, at 17:39, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>On 2020-07-27 19:04, Albert Ozias via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>> Do preamps improve the signal to noise ratio or simply amplify signal
>and noise?
>
>Hello Albert,
>
>No, a preamp cannot improve the SNR of the signal at its input
>terminal(s).
>
>All amplifiers add noise to the signal that they are amplifying, and 
>that added noise can't be removed.
>
>That's the key point: An analog signal's SNR only goes down, never up.
>
>The RF energy intercepted by your antenna is immediately combined with 
>other sources of noise, mostly thermal noise, on the way to your radio 
>for eventual demodulation.
>
>A LNA (low-noise amplifier) does this while adding a minimum of noise
>to 
>the signal. This prevents the SNR from degrading to a point where
>useful 
>information can no longer be recovered from the demodulated signal, be 
>it analog (voice) or digital (data).
>
>Also note that your radio also adds its own measure of noise to the 
>incoming signal, degrading the SNR. However, if the SNR has been 
>preserved from the antenna through the LNA and coax, then the noise
>that 
>the radio adds will not degrade the SNR appreciably.
>
>This topic is involved and sometimes complex, but rewarding!
>
>--- Zach
>N0ZGO
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From clintbradford at mac.com  Tue Jul 28 13:34:46 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 06:34:46 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Searching AMSAT Archives Using Google 'Site:' Tool
Message-ID: <4C8630CD-4B23-4246-ABC1-B5C3C19A2F33@mac.com>

Hmmm ... never tried that. List messages are included in regular Google searches - but I am not sure if the more current years are included, or just the ones on the ?old system? are being searched.

 Clint Bradford K6LCS

Sent from my iPhone

From mat_62 at charter.net  Tue Jul 28 00:10:13 2020
From: mat_62 at charter.net (Michael Tondee)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 20:10:13 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Turning on a light
Message-ID: <dd593a1c-93fe-6266-6637-ea38d9097634@charter.net>

The AMSAT membership has obviously long been in the dark about how the 
organization operates and what's involved in the finances and various 
decision making processes. Michelle and Patrick are trying to turn on a 
light and get some clarity and transparency. Despite the rancor it's 
caused and the fact that it's painful, it's becoming more and more 
undeniable how necessary it was and I fail to see how it's a bad thing. 
I'd love to go back to discussing satellites too but sometimes you have 
to go through the bad to get to the good. That's life.

73,

Michael, W4HIJ


From n1jez at burlingtontelecom.net  Tue Jul 28 13:45:50 2020
From: n1jez at burlingtontelecom.net (Mike Seguin)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 09:45:50 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Signal to Noise ratio
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR05MB70379E704E3B65434DF0B375DF730@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MWHPR02MB2414F908EA7E237454A74A99C0720@MWHPR02MB2414.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
	<ac3323bb-3889-8135-cdfb-ffadd4989c5c@pobox.com>
	<d77e6ab3-aa0c-44da-8937-7f04367b910b@yahoo.com>
	<MN2PR05MB70379E704E3B65434DF0B375DF730@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <bd42798a-ac8c-cdf6-2705-910badf852ee@burlingtontelecom.net>

And here's a short text from Ian, GM3SEK about adjusting preamp gain. No 
test equipment needed. Too much gain can be a bad thing...

====

Here's a method that requires no test equipment at all. It comes from
G4DGU, who designed all the original muTek transverters and outboard
preamps to have adjustable gain. This method uses the sharp threshold
effect of FM detectors at low S/N ratios, and it allows you to optimize
the preamp/transverter gain for your local band noise conditions.

1. Turn the transverter/preamp gain well up.

2. Find a very weak but steady unmodulated carrier (off-air, not from a
signal generator or a local birdie). Rotate the antenna until you can
just detect the signal in FM mode.

3. Reduce the preamp/transverter gain until you hear the noise increase.
The FM threshold is sensitive to a small fraction of a dB in S/N.

4. Increase the gain just a little,to the point where you can't hear the
quieting improve much.

5. Switch back to a real DX mode.

Remember that every dB of unnecessary preamp/transverter gain will
probably subtract almost 1dB from your system intermod intercept!

The penalty of adjusting the gain correctly is that you're living just
above the "knee" where S/N will begin to deteriorate rapidly if
something changes. It's worthwhile to repeat this test every few months
- especially just before a contest.

73 from Ian G3SEK          Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
                           'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)

On 7/28/2020 9:28 AM, Leffke, Zachary via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> An EXCELLENT topic of conversation, and one I keep circling back to over and over and over.......
> 
> -Zach, KJ4QLP

-- 

73,
Mike, N1JEZ
"A closed mouth gathers no feet"

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Tue Jul 28 15:57:28 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 09:57:28 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] Signal to Noise ratio
In-Reply-To: <bd42798a-ac8c-cdf6-2705-910badf852ee@burlingtontelecom.net>
References: <MWHPR02MB2414F908EA7E237454A74A99C0720@MWHPR02MB2414.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
	<ac3323bb-3889-8135-cdfb-ffadd4989c5c@pobox.com>
	<d77e6ab3-aa0c-44da-8937-7f04367b910b@yahoo.com>
	<MN2PR05MB70379E704E3B65434DF0B375DF730@MN2PR05MB7037.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
	<bd42798a-ac8c-cdf6-2705-910badf852ee@burlingtontelecom.net>
Message-ID: <18D8CFE8-7E17-4CCF-A6A1-03719A444666@pobox.com>

On July 28, 2020 7:45:50 AM MDT, Mike Seguin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>And here's a short text from Ian, GM3SEK about adjusting preamp gain.
>No 
>test equipment needed. Too much gain can be a bad thing...

I completely agree. Too much gain can crush the front end mixer of your receiver.

One also has to make sure that out of band QRM isn't the cause. Case in point: we live about 1 mile from a water tower which has an impressive array of cellular antennas on its perimeter. I've measured approximately -50 dBm, preamp bypassed and at the end of the coax in the shack, at 700-800 MHz as received by the 70cm passive Lindenblad. Obviously, some low-loss filtering before the LNA was in order, and I'm even contemplating a SAW filter on the output to really clean it up. I've got plenty of spare gain.

Also, don't forget the ATT button on your radio! If you click on the attenuator and the noise floor drops significantly but the signal drops down much less, you're overloading the front end of your rig.

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From jeffrey.davis at mac.com  Tue Jul 28 15:23:07 2020
From: jeffrey.davis at mac.com (Jeff Davis)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 11:23:07 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Turning on a light
In-Reply-To: <dd593a1c-93fe-6266-6637-ea38d9097634@charter.net>
References: <dd593a1c-93fe-6266-6637-ea38d9097634@charter.net>
Message-ID: <6904A5AD-F52E-4965-B921-E8D13E53A2CA@mac.com>

However technical this facet of the hobby may be, it?s still ham radio and still just a hobby. Organizations like ARRL (and AMSAT) retain legal counsel for all manner of reasons. Don Miller, W9WNV famously sued the League back in the 60?s. I?m certain that caused them to lawyer-up and no doubt ARRL members paid for that legal legwork.

Still, it seems mighty curious that the new board members have hired legal counsel on at least two occasions, and I assume, out of their own pockets and/or ORI. That?s the part that's unusual. How many hams do you know who would take money out of their own personal savings to try and gain more control from their unpaid, volunteer positions in a hobby unless there was something else to it?

For whatever reason, Perens/Michelle/Patrick/ORI have placed an unusually high value on seizing control of the AMSAT BoD. Whether this is with good or nefarious reason is something members will have to decide via their wallets and their ballots because I don?t think the actual agenda behind all this will be truthfully revealed despite all the ?Open? and ?transparency? BS that's been flung onto this list.

Someday It might make for a decent movie though 'ham radio' doesn?t play a central role in this drama.

Jeff, KE9V
AMSAT Life



> On Jul 27, 2020, at 8:10 PM, Michael Tondee via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> The AMSAT membership has obviously long been in the dark about how the organization operates and what's involved in the finances and various decision making processes. Michelle and Patrick are trying to turn on a light and get some clarity and transparency. Despite the rancor it's caused and the fact that it's painful, it's becoming more and more undeniable how necessary it was and I fail to see how it's a bad thing. I'd love to go back to discussing satellites too but sometimes you have to go through the bad to get to the good. That's life.

From royldean at gmail.com  Tue Jul 28 16:12:51 2020
From: royldean at gmail.com (Roy Dean)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 12:12:51 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] beepbeepbeepboopboopboopbeepbeepbeep
Message-ID: <CADGPg2syAVR3jzFwQ=LTiv_vRpfz8=PH5Kr7pB8U9R24kiM-4g@mail.gmail.com>

Anybody else hear this on the 16:00z pass of AO-92 that is finishing up
right now?  Or is it my SDR? (didn't hear it on the AO-91 pass immediate
before this AO-92 pass).

--Roy
K3RLD

From royldean at gmail.com  Tue Jul 28 16:19:47 2020
From: royldean at gmail.com (Roy Dean)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 12:19:47 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] beepbeepbeepboopboopboopbeepbeepbeep
Message-ID: <CADGPg2vFbDu0N2hBuGtqv4=2Szh_sDESifp20nfvnWmyGjVcSQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, answered my own question:

https://network.satnogs.org/observations/2615366/

Not just me.


--Roy

K3RLD



> Anybody else hear this on the 16:00z pass of AO-92 that is finishing up
> right now?  Or is it my SDR? (didn't hear it on the AO-91 pass immediate
> before this AO-92 pass).
>
> --Roy
> K3RLD
>
>

From aa5pk at suddenlink.net  Tue Jul 28 17:18:26 2020
From: aa5pk at suddenlink.net (Glenn Miller AA5PK)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 12:18:26 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] beepbeepbeepboopboopboopbeepbeepbeep
In-Reply-To: <CADGPg2vFbDu0N2hBuGtqv4=2Szh_sDESifp20nfvnWmyGjVcSQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADGPg2vFbDu0N2hBuGtqv4=2Szh_sDESifp20nfvnWmyGjVcSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <81F7A6B4A7644C01A36EFA291ED7EB8C@DESKTOPL0IAS8B>

Sounds to me like radar.

Glenn
AA5PK

-----Original Message----- 
From: Roy Dean via AMSAT-BB 
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 11:19 AM 
To: amsat-bb at amsat.org 
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] beepbeepbeepboopboopboopbeepbeepbeep 

Ok, answered my own question:

https://network.satnogs.org/observations/2615366/

Not just me.


--Roy

K3RLD



> Anybody else hear this on the 16:00z pass of AO-92 that is finishing up
> right now?  Or is it my SDR? (didn't hear it on the AO-91 pass immediate
> before this AO-92 pass).
>
> --Roy
> K3RLD
>
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From chibill110 at gmail.com  Tue Jul 28 20:27:27 2020
From: chibill110 at gmail.com (Bill Gaylord)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 15:27:27 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Amsat.org vs Launch.amsat.org?
Message-ID: <CALS66Fs1C5OC5vUZYBrOpYx+F6odhjuddmZr9JGdo7Wyo+rUUQ@mail.gmail.com>

What's the difference between the two? I am a Amsat member (as of sunday)
and only have access to launch.amsat.org's login.  I have not found a way
to register for amsat.org's login and my launch.amsat.org login does not
work on amsat.org.

KD9KCK

From michael at n4dcw.com  Tue Jul 28 22:17:59 2020
From: michael at n4dcw.com (Michael N4DCW)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 18:17:59 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Sats and SOTA 7/29
Message-ID: <18AF9C3D-9FCB-4EE3-BC0C-E60872C280CB@n4dcw.com>

From W4C/WM-014 (Standing Indian) tomorrow, Wednesday 7/29, I?ll aim for the following passes:

1123Z SO-50
1147Z XW-2F
1220Z AO-27
1304Z SO-50

Happy chasing!

73,
Michael

--

Michael Whitman at n4dcw.com
Louisville, KY, USA - EM78

From marklhammond at gmail.com  Wed Jul 29 02:43:15 2020
From: marklhammond at gmail.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 22:43:15 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-92 mode L/v at 0241utc for 24 hrs 29 July 2020
Message-ID: <fd1ee3c7-15a6-f10e-a01d-b64993cbd256@gmail.com>

Happy L-band!

AO-92 mode L/v at 0241utc for 24 hrs 29 July 2020, if power budget permits.

73,


-- 
Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]


From mikflathead at aol.com  Wed Jul 29 12:16:11 2020
From: mikflathead at aol.com (mikflathead at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 12:16:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] geo sat
References: <1597742003.7425258.1596024971795.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1597742003.7425258.1596024971795@mail.yahoo.com>

I have been spending time listening to AO100. Are there any plans for one to be over the USA in the future? Mike

From jfitzgerald at alum.wpi.edu  Wed Jul 29 14:20:19 2020
From: jfitzgerald at alum.wpi.edu (Joseph B. Fitzgerald)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 14:20:19 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] Amsat.org vs Launch.amsat.org?
In-Reply-To: <CALS66Fs1C5OC5vUZYBrOpYx+F6odhjuddmZr9JGdo7Wyo+rUUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALS66Fs1C5OC5vUZYBrOpYx+F6odhjuddmZr9JGdo7Wyo+rUUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DM5PR22MB0825A0809BC63BE7DC13A25087700@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Bill!

Welcome to AMSAT, we are sure glad to have you!

The essential difference is that launch.amsat.org is a recent addition to our online presence designed for member services, e.g to provide member only benefits such as access to the AMSAT Journal and so on.   www.amsat.org is public, the main benefit to logging in there is to be able to buy items from the AMSAT store such as antennas or tracking software.    At the moment, there is no provision for a single sign on that would allow you access to both.

de KM1P Joe

________________________________________
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> on behalf of Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 4:27 PM
To: AMSAT BB
Subject: [amsat-bb] Amsat.org vs Launch.amsat.org?

What's the difference between the two? I am a Amsat member (as of sunday)
and only have access to launch.amsat.org's login.  I have not found a way
to register for amsat.org's login and my launch.amsat.org login does not
work on amsat.org.

KD9KCK
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From m5aka at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Jul 29 14:57:02 2020
From: m5aka at yahoo.co.uk (M5AKA)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 14:57:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] OSCAR Satellite QSO Party starts August 1
References: <276806940.13381677.1596034622694.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <276806940.13381677.1596034622694@mail.yahoo.com>

The OSCAR Satellite QSO Party starts 0000 GMT on August 1 and runs until 2359 GMT on September 22. Details at 
https://amsat-uk.org/2020/07/20/oscar-satellite-qso-party/

On Monday, July 27, Dom Smith M0BLF @dnas2 gave an online talk ? Getting started on the QO-100 geostationary satellite transponders ? as part of the RSGB Tonight @ 8 live webinar series. The video of his talk is now available, see 
https://amsat-uk.org/2020/07/27/getting-started-on-qo-100/

ISS MAI-75 SSTV activity planned for Aug 4-5 
https://amsat-uk.org/2020/07/27/iss-mai-75-sstv-activity-planned-for-aug-4-5/

UWE-4 News: Successful first demonstration of orbit control on a 1U CubeSat 
https://amsat-uk.org/2020/07/22/uwe-4-news-successful-first-demonstration-of-orbit-control-on-a-1u-cubesat/

Trevor M5AKA----
AMSAT-UK?http://amsat-uk.org/
Twitter?https://twitter.com/AmsatUK
Facebook?https://facebook.com/AmsatUK
YouTube?https://youtube.com/AmsatUK
----


From robert.machale at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 29 16:27:16 2020
From: robert.machale at yahoo.com (Robert MacHale)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 16:27:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Next BoD Cycle - Bruninga (WB4APR) & Bauer (KA3HDO)
References: <1072453970.9010433.1596040036211.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1072453970.9010433.1596040036211@mail.yahoo.com>

During the next election cycle for Board of Directors I hope these guys will run - they are both senior and vibrant contributors to the community.

1) Bob Bruninga (WB4APR) - APRS on RS0ISS + many satellites
2) Frank Bauer (KA3HDO) - ARISS liaison to AMSAT

This is just my personal opinion - I am not sponsored by anyone; no sideways hidden agendas.

73

Robert MacHale
. KE6BLR FCC Licensed Radio Operator?
.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration

Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Paine

From stephennipper at gmail.com  Wed Jul 29 16:42:50 2020
From: stephennipper at gmail.com (H. Stephen Nipper)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 10:42:50 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] Amsat.org vs Launch.amsat.org?
In-Reply-To: <DM5PR22MB0825A0809BC63BE7DC13A25087700@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CALS66Fs1C5OC5vUZYBrOpYx+F6odhjuddmZr9JGdo7Wyo+rUUQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<DM5PR22MB0825A0809BC63BE7DC13A25087700@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAPf7+3p2srWG7oh15KadSBkSDvrwyN4vSTVRJXW62_bOXZwN6g@mail.gmail.com>

I noticed that you can make donations there now.  And with some members
using the lawyer card it would be a good time to make a donation.

Stephen Nipper
N7DJX

On Wed, Jul 29, 2020, 8:44 AM Joseph B. Fitzgerald via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Hi Bill!
>
> Welcome to AMSAT, we are sure glad to have you!
>
> The essential difference is that launch.amsat.org is a recent addition to
> our online presence designed for member services, e.g to provide member
> only benefits such as access to the AMSAT Journal and so on.
> www.amsat.org is public, the main benefit to logging in there is to be
> able to buy items from the AMSAT store such as antennas or tracking
> software.    At the moment, there is no provision for a single sign on that
> would allow you access to both.
>
> de KM1P Joe
>
> ________________________________________
> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> on behalf of Bill Gaylord via
> AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 4:27 PM
> To: AMSAT BB
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Amsat.org vs Launch.amsat.org?
>
> What's the difference between the two? I am a Amsat member (as of sunday)
> and only have access to launch.amsat.org's login.  I have not found a way
> to register for amsat.org's login and my launch.amsat.org login does not
> work on amsat.org.
>
> KD9KCK
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From tjowens at gmail.com  Wed Jul 29 17:11:00 2020
From: tjowens at gmail.com (Tommy Owens)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 13:11:00 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Amsat.org vs Launch.amsat.org?
In-Reply-To: <DM5PR22MB0825A0809BC63BE7DC13A25087700@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CALS66Fs1C5OC5vUZYBrOpYx+F6odhjuddmZr9JGdo7Wyo+rUUQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<DM5PR22MB0825A0809BC63BE7DC13A25087700@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAEtun1LtdoyLshT1Gq5dqH17wMW9YOf2U2RyApM8Q0n39Yqy8A@mail.gmail.com>

I have not been able to log into the launch site since its inception.
When I click the reset password link to establish the new account,
I get an error saying my email address is not found.

Tommy N3TJO

On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 10:47 AM Joseph B. Fitzgerald via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Hi Bill!
>
> Welcome to AMSAT, we are sure glad to have you!
>
> The essential difference is that launch.amsat.org is a recent addition to
> our online presence designed for member services, e.g to provide member
> only benefits such as access to the AMSAT Journal and so on.
> www.amsat.org is public, the main benefit to logging in there is to be
> able to buy items from the AMSAT store such as antennas or tracking
> software.    At the moment, there is no provision for a single sign on that
> would allow you access to both.
>
> de KM1P Joe
>
> ________________________________________
> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> on behalf of Bill Gaylord via
> AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 4:27 PM
> To: AMSAT BB
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Amsat.org vs Launch.amsat.org?
>
> What's the difference between the two? I am a Amsat member (as of sunday)
> and only have access to launch.amsat.org's login.  I have not found a way
> to register for amsat.org's login and my launch.amsat.org login does not
> work on amsat.org.
>
> KD9KCK
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From ke4al at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 29 18:05:22 2020
From: ke4al at yahoo.com (Robert Bankston)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 18:05:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Amsat.org vs Launch.amsat.org?
In-Reply-To: <CAEtun1LtdoyLshT1Gq5dqH17wMW9YOf2U2RyApM8Q0n39Yqy8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALS66Fs1C5OC5vUZYBrOpYx+F6odhjuddmZr9JGdo7Wyo+rUUQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<DM5PR22MB0825A0809BC63BE7DC13A25087700@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAEtun1LtdoyLshT1Gq5dqH17wMW9YOf2U2RyApM8Q0n39Yqy8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1591093177.9063588.1596045922441@mail.yahoo.com>

Tommy,

Please take a look at the instructions on how to access your account.? The link to the instructions is in the first paragraph on the homepage at launch.amsat.org.

The particular problem you are having is because our database does not have the email address you are attempting to use.? Per the instructions, you will need to email members (at) amsat (dot) org.


73,

Robert Bankston, KE4AL
Vice-President, User Services
Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)






On Wednesday, July 29, 2020, 12:59:01 PM CDT, Tommy Owens via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 





I have not been able to log into the launch site since its inception.
When I click the reset password link to establish the new account,
I get an error saying my email address is not found.

Tommy N3TJO

On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 10:47 AM Joseph B. Fitzgerald via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Hi Bill!
>
> Welcome to AMSAT, we are sure glad to have you!
>
> The essential difference is that launch.amsat.org is a recent addition to
> our online presence designed for member services, e.g to provide member
> only benefits such as access to the AMSAT Journal and so on.
> www.amsat.org is public, the main benefit to logging in there is to be
> able to buy items from the AMSAT store such as antennas or tracking
> software.? ? At the moment, there is no provision for a single sign on that
> would allow you access to both.
>
> de KM1P Joe
>
> ________________________________________
> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> on behalf of Bill Gaylord via
> AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 4:27 PM
> To: AMSAT BB
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Amsat.org vs Launch.amsat.org?
>
> What's the difference between the two? I am a Amsat member (as of sunday)
> and only have access to launch.amsat.org's login.? I have not found a way
> to register for amsat.org's login and my launch.amsat.org login does not
> work on amsat.org.
>
> KD9KCK
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc  Wed Jul 29 18:11:52 2020
From: wb1fj-bb at fisher.cc (Burns Fisher)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 14:11:52 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Amsat.org vs Launch.amsat.org?
In-Reply-To: <CAEtun1LtdoyLshT1Gq5dqH17wMW9YOf2U2RyApM8Q0n39Yqy8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALS66Fs1C5OC5vUZYBrOpYx+F6odhjuddmZr9JGdo7Wyo+rUUQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<DM5PR22MB0825A0809BC63BE7DC13A25087700@DM5PR22MB0825.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAEtun1LtdoyLshT1Gq5dqH17wMW9YOf2U2RyApM8Q0n39Yqy8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABX7KxXi0WzK9x5NDNoA00HVF3esAeqjoNFacb2HEJAWVcJhPA@mail.gmail.com>

Here is an extract from the instructions, which I got from a recent Journal:

5. If all goes well and you see a message on the next screen, telling you
> ?Password reset instructions emailed, jump ahead to Step 7. If, instead,
> you see a red box, with the message ?ERROR WARNING ? Email not found,?
> proceed to Step 6.
>
> 6. If you are here, don?t worry. All is not lost. Please send an email
> (from your desired email account) to members at amsat.org, with HELP in the
> subject line. In the body of the message, all we need is your full name,
> your call sign, and your AMSAT member number. Note, your AMSAT member
> number is in the upper-left corner of the mailing label on this issue of
> The AMSAT Journal. When we receive your email, we will update your
> account and send you an email reply that you are all set. Once you
> receive this email, go back to Step 1.
>

You already did steps 1-5 so I did not re-copy them.  But the main point is
that the old database did not have your email, so in some cases they had to
find emails in other places, and they may be wrong.  Send a request as
specified above and you should get going quickly.

Good luck!

73,

Burns WB1FJ (who had to do exactly this)

On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 2:00 PM Tommy Owens via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> I have not been able to log into the launch site since its inception.
> When I click the reset password link to establish the new account,
> I get an error saying my email address is not found.
>
> Tommy N3TJO
>
> On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 10:47 AM Joseph B. Fitzgerald via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi Bill!
> >
> > Welcome to AMSAT, we are sure glad to have you!
> >
> > The essential difference is that launch.amsat.org is a recent addition
> to
> > our online presence designed for member services, e.g to provide member
> > only benefits such as access to the AMSAT Journal and so on.
> > www.amsat.org is public, the main benefit to logging in there is to be
> > able to buy items from the AMSAT store such as antennas or tracking
> > software.    At the moment, there is no provision for a single sign on
> that
> > would allow you access to both.
> >
> > de KM1P Joe
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> on behalf of Bill Gaylord
> via
> > AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 4:27 PM
> > To: AMSAT BB
> > Subject: [amsat-bb] Amsat.org vs Launch.amsat.org?
> >
> > What's the difference between the two? I am a Amsat member (as of sunday)
> > and only have access to launch.amsat.org's login.  I have not found a
> way
> > to register for amsat.org's login and my launch.amsat.org login does not
> > work on amsat.org.
> >
> > KD9KCK
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From wizardofzid at gmail.com  Wed Jul 29 20:06:19 2020
From: wizardofzid at gmail.com (Russ Kinner)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 13:06:19 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Coax repaired
Message-ID: <p6ohmm7oqfny6k2ib3t31m97.1596053179474@email.android.com>

Well, after getting some connectors and a gas tube arc protector on the antenna, I'm back on air.  Thanks to KX9X roaming today to confirm I'm functional.
Now, receiving the ballot is still in the future.  Looks like the USPS is  really slowing the delivery of the mail due to no OT, and other orders from the top.  Hope I don't need to ask for a replacement due to their lack of funds.

Rusty,  WA8ZID

From kk5do at arrl.net  Wed Jul 29 23:06:01 2020
From: kk5do at arrl.net (Bruce)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 18:06:01 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] How many AMSAT awards have been issued?
References: <7fb94006-f9f5-2aaa-7c22-f1731e48cd93.ref@arrl.net>
Message-ID: <7fb94006-f9f5-2aaa-7c22-f1731e48cd93@arrl.net>

I was asked by a ham last week how many awards have I issued. You know, 
I really had no idea. I took over doing the AMSAT awards in May, 2001. 
Most of the awards I have computer records for. However, the Satellite 
Communicator Club award, I did not start keeping track of them until 2003.

So, you ask, how many awards have you issued?

Satellite Communicator??? 407+????? My records only go back to 2003
South Africa Satellite Communication Achievement?? 167
AMSAT Satellite Communication Achievement????????? 273
Sexagesimal? 64
Century????? 24
W4AMI??????? 81
W4AMI endorsements? 66
W4AMI 5000?? 25
Rover??????? 55
GridMaster??? 3

and if I added correctly, it comes out to 1,165 plus whatever Satellite 
Communicator awards were issued in 2001 and 2002. That's a lot of 
certificate paper, a lot of ink and a bunch of envelopes and stiffeners 
to get them safely to their owners.

Do you have one on your wall? If not, maybe you should submit for one or 
more so that one day I will hit 2,000 or 3,000 who knows. ;-)

73...bruce

-- 

Bruce Paige, KK5DO
                      
AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
AMSAT Board Member 2016-2020
   
ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
           
Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT*
Also live streaming MP3 at http://www.amsatnet.com
Podcast at http://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes
               
Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News
http://www.arrl.org

AMSAT on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/amsat


From kb2ysi at gmail.com  Wed Jul 29 23:42:08 2020
From: kb2ysi at gmail.com (Don KB2YSI)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 19:42:08 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] How many AMSAT awards have been issued?
In-Reply-To: <7fb94006-f9f5-2aaa-7c22-f1731e48cd93@arrl.net>
References: <7fb94006-f9f5-2aaa-7c22-f1731e48cd93.ref@arrl.net>
	<7fb94006-f9f5-2aaa-7c22-f1731e48cd93@arrl.net>
Message-ID: <CAAJiE8ORVSL-0aFnCc0tLS1_TpSJ6Q=KGZVnTCH+K+Tk9uEdZQ@mail.gmail.com>

That is amazing Bruce! So many years of dedication is awe inspiring!

On Wed, Jul 29, 2020, 19:26 Bruce via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I was asked by a ham last week how many awards have I issued. You know,
> I really had no idea. I took over doing the AMSAT awards in May, 2001.
> Most of the awards I have computer records for. However, the Satellite
> Communicator Club award, I did not start keeping track of them until 2003.
>
> So, you ask, how many awards have you issued?
>
> Satellite Communicator    407+      My records only go back to 2003
> South Africa Satellite Communication Achievement   167
> AMSAT Satellite Communication Achievement          273
> Sexagesimal  64
> Century      24
> W4AMI        81
> W4AMI endorsements  66
> W4AMI 5000   25
> Rover        55
> GridMaster    3
>
> and if I added correctly, it comes out to 1,165 plus whatever Satellite
> Communicator awards were issued in 2001 and 2002. That's a lot of
> certificate paper, a lot of ink and a bunch of envelopes and stiffeners
> to get them safely to their owners.
>
> Do you have one on your wall? If not, maybe you should submit for one or
> more so that one day I will hit 2,000 or 3,000 who knows. ;-)
>
> 73...bruce
>
> --
>
> Bruce Paige, KK5DO
>
> AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
> AMSAT Board Member 2016-2020
>
> ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
>
> Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT*
> Also live streaming MP3 at http://www.amsatnet.com
> Podcast at http://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes
>
> Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News
> http://www.arrl.org
>
> AMSAT on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/amsat
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From clintbradford at mac.com  Thu Jul 30 01:39:55 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 18:39:55 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Work-Sat Web Site Moving
Message-ID: <8CC0BF72-E88F-48C3-A12D-3EE454D2E447@mac.com>

The Work-Sat Web site is moving to a new host ...

You can access it during the next three days at - https://www.k6lcs.com/work-sat/ <https://www.k6lcs.com/work-sat/>

Otherwise, it will be back to normal (?) for the weekend. 

(Usually ?normal? and ?Clint? aren?t terms used in the same email message ? )

And so it goes ? 

Clint Bradford K6LCS

PS Why the move? More control and security for my visitors. Easier to update for ME.


From clintbradford at mac.com  Thu Jul 30 01:50:31 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 18:50:31 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Next BoD Cycle
Message-ID: <BECAFCA2-9A73-4A5F-A901-7300795F2683@mac.com>

>> ? 1) Bob Bruninga (WB4APR) - APRS on RS0ISS + many satellites
>> ? 2) Frank Bauer (KA3HDO) - ARISS liaison to AMSAT

They each would add tremendously to the talent pool ? and never be 
sources of our discontent*.

Clint Bradford K6LCS

* - In honor of the Freedom Summer of 1964, which brought revolutionary 
changes to Mississippi - and the nation.




From scottk5ta at gmail.com  Thu Jul 30 02:51:51 2020
From: scottk5ta at gmail.com (Scott Davis)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 20:51:51 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] How many AMSAT awards have been issued?
In-Reply-To: <CAAJiE8ORVSL-0aFnCc0tLS1_TpSJ6Q=KGZVnTCH+K+Tk9uEdZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAJiE8ORVSL-0aFnCc0tLS1_TpSJ6Q=KGZVnTCH+K+Tk9uEdZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <626617B7-E292-4612-99C6-D01DFC0824E3@gmail.com>

I think you forgot various Field Day awards....

-Scott K5TA 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 29, 2020, at 5:49 PM, Don KB2YSI via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?That is amazing Bruce! So many years of dedication is awe inspiring!
> 
>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2020, 19:26 Bruce via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I was asked by a ham last week how many awards have I issued. You know,
>> I really had no idea. I took over doing the AMSAT awards in May, 2001.
>> Most of the awards I have computer records for. However, the Satellite
>> Communicator Club award, I did not start keeping track of them until 2003.
>> 
>> So, you ask, how many awards have you issued?
>> 
>> Satellite Communicator    407+      My records only go back to 2003
>> South Africa Satellite Communication Achievement   167
>> AMSAT Satellite Communication Achievement          273
>> Sexagesimal  64
>> Century      24
>> W4AMI        81
>> W4AMI endorsements  66
>> W4AMI 5000   25
>> Rover        55
>> GridMaster    3
>> 
>> and if I added correctly, it comes out to 1,165 plus whatever Satellite
>> Communicator awards were issued in 2001 and 2002. That's a lot of
>> certificate paper, a lot of ink and a bunch of envelopes and stiffeners
>> to get them safely to their owners.
>> 
>> Do you have one on your wall? If not, maybe you should submit for one or
>> more so that one day I will hit 2,000 or 3,000 who knows. ;-)
>> 
>> 73...bruce
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Bruce Paige, KK5DO
>> 
>> AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
>> AMSAT Board Member 2016-2020
>> 
>> ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
>> 
>> Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT*
>> Also live streaming MP3 at http://www.amsatnet.com
>> Podcast at http://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes
>> 
>> Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News
>> http://www.arrl.org
>> 
>> AMSAT on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/amsat
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From clintbradford at mac.com  Thu Jul 30 04:56:08 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 21:56:08 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Save the Alabama Space Camp!
Message-ID: <50F0C00D-971D-4879-B170-001B9C3263E7@mac.com>

The Alabama Space & Rocket Center is in financial trouble. Article and below that is this GoFundMe site: 
almost $500K of the needed $1.5MIL.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/29/us/us-space-rocket-center-alabama-close-donation-scn-trnd/index.html?fbclid=IwAR0aBojasSdZeQaq_c8ne4b4Yg5PfoFOsGJVjsMFmnvOxBAKkX6gtFRq4d0 <https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F2020%2F07%2F29%2Fus%2Fus-space-rocket-center-alabama-close-donation-scn-trnd%2Findex.html%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR1qTOR-9DKfe8glAfivExH-_oI9w92DfcA34n1rPQ_qf3J9FGzsIjuaurE&h=AT3Gwih9FCs9ZfVClg77g2qXyCAndR30ScZVsx3YoLLdO1av-tgJvXvWS2I9U1DxU4QW_0rLvcIu_btZfptCKLl98RO0wZmUJwfkFRN9YoV_HgKfvi2GpT0eO3ni5QDHAetApESYgpCt2cdjfW8Kl84&__tn__=-UK-R&c[0]=AT3VXw0LbytwM1NPZHbS8HQaDVAobjtzvacmuT0WwY_w4LDmwBMPBOZhlBZcfnb4LwpKPMllFBW6fjqa-qrDTiFIrFY-4dXTPxEsbbhzomGvdqOmBBjtzL93CeWiVhKldQtJRG8OJqry5eD_E4YDn847j4BLb0ajvEG5IN_Ys1nZC1JjE9o3WH2F4wYdT7-5EEFASSsQFAMldH1sqpLkrw>


https://charity.gofundme.com/o/en/campaign/savespacecamp <https://charity.gofundme.com/o/en/campaign/savespacecamp>

Clint Bradford K6LCS

PS Thought we had an Alabama ham around here ? Guess he hasn't heard of this wonderful institution!



From rsoifer1 at aol.com  Thu Jul 30 15:59:14 2020
From: rsoifer1 at aol.com (Ray Soifer)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 15:59:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Fwd: AMSAT Critical Election
References: <1843725822.7997066.1596124754518.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1843725822.7997066.1596124754518@mail.yahoo.com>





Subject: Re: AMSAT Critical Election

Howie,,

Thanks for including me in your distribution.? I am not endorsing any candidate, nor do I think my endorsement would matter anyway.

As you know, there already is a HEO amateur satellite payload in orbit.? It was mainly built by AMSAT-DL as a "passenger" on a GEO satellite placed into orbit by a friendly Arab government.? It cannot be directly accessed from North America but there is nothing to prevent a North American ham from accessing it through a gateway via the Internet.? No, such a contact wouldn't count for DXCC, but as you said, not all hams are interested in awards or contests.?

Unfortunately, the US does not have a ham-friendly government.? After rejecting the comments of AMSAT and ARRL in the "small satellite" rulemaking, FCC seems more interested in creating obstacles to amateur HEOs (e.g., the orbital debris docket).? I won't even mention ITAR/EAR.? Does it really matter who builds the next one?? If so, why?

I must admit that I get a bit nervous when somebody mentions that he wants to build a satellite interesting to commercial users.? Why should amateur bands be used for such things?? I am not speaking here for IARU, but I spend a fair amount of time helping to review the proposals we get for frequency coordination.? Quite a few of them are really commercial projects, dressed up to use amateur bands.? Our bands are precious; we need to keep protecting them.

Finally, not all hams are interested in awards or contests, but many are.? AMSAT has always had a combination of techies and operators, each doing what they do best.? Long may that continue.

73 Ray W2RS


From alozias at live.com  Thu Jul 30 16:17:07 2020
From: alozias at live.com (Albert Ozias)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 16:17:07 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-73 Frequency Shifts
Message-ID: <MWHPR02MB241477A78FF688109382AF89C0710@MWHPR02MB2414.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Why is AO-73 frequency more effected by time in sunlight than other birds? Is this a design flaw or a component failure?

From zmetzing at pobox.com  Thu Jul 30 17:04:22 2020
From: zmetzing at pobox.com (Zach Metzinger)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 11:04:22 -0600
Subject: [amsat-bb] Fwd: AMSAT Critical Election
In-Reply-To: <1843725822.7997066.1596124754518@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1843725822.7997066.1596124754518.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1843725822.7997066.1596124754518@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DC8059A4-B21C-45D8-A1AF-F5188A0D2FD6@pobox.com>

On July 30, 2020 9:59:14 AM MDT, Ray Soifer via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> It cannot
>be directly accessed from North America but there is nothing to prevent
>a North American ham from accessing it through a gateway via the
>Internet.? 
Has this changed? The last I knew, this was prohibited by some regulation or the rules of the satellite provider.

--- Zach
N0ZGO

From jean.marc.momple at gmail.com  Thu Jul 30 17:17:42 2020
From: jean.marc.momple at gmail.com (Jean Marc Momple)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 21:17:42 +0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
In-Reply-To: <257E2184-0528-427F-91BA-32EF568BEE13@comcast.net>
References: <CAN6TEUc29OmjtBpY_28cgTQ_h1J85oatCNYP21HbBM0FfmHozQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADkz4c8oGedGTjntGxzj9nfGGLVuq4c4kZN9id3+mbkpQjWmUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<257E2184-0528-427F-91BA-32EF568BEE13@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <7707463D-F763-40D0-B888-45F46EDC7812@gmail.com>

Joseph,

Somehow partly agree with you, seems that the elected directors we voted for and now opponents are not being able to sit around a table and resolved simple matters such as ego, generation conflict etc..

In the meantime US (ITU Americas Region) is behind particularly with QO-100, seems that AMSAT-DL had a better vision and also showing better results than AMSAT-NA, more working united.

Thus I tend to agree with you that we need new blood at the board which hopefully will have a plan and vision for the future (not easy, I agree) but at least the internal war should stop asap in order to achieve same.

My one cent input and opinion as a member of AMSAt-NA (and DL)

73


Jean Marc (3B8DU)

> On Jul 27, 2020, at 10:52 PM, Greg via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> Joseph,
> 
> Agree?.
> 
> The optics of their defense saying they are making AMSAT better just isn?t there.  Why?  Its a volunteer organization, funded by grants, dues and volunteer labor.  It is not the C-suite or BOD of an S and P 100. Firing lawyer letters back and forth is an ego contest in their best interests, not the organizations.  That includes both sides.
> 
> Greg
> N3MVF
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 27, 2020, at 2:42 PM, Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> Patrick,
> 
> I am an AMSAT Life Member and i'm just going to ask you, can you
> please step down from being an AMSAT director?  It's obviously not
> working out well for you (and others).  I mean, we can all see why
> AMSAT is blowing money on attorneys now....  This is a concrete reason
> to NOT to vote for anyone that you or Michelle Thompson recommend.
> Spamming the BB with a letter like this, is highly unprofessional and
> does not bring you much credibility in my book.  These are the kinds
> of matters that professionals resolve privately.  By sending this to
> the BB, I can only assume that all you and Michelle want attention.
> 
> Well, congratulations for possibly leading to more AMSAT funds being
> blown on useless legal nonsense, instead of actual satellite work.
> This is outstanding, officer / director work for the organization and
> I personally do NOT thank you for it.
> 
> Honestly though, this is just getting stupid.  Just because people are
> voted onto a board or into a position of office, doesn't mean that the
> people voted in are any good for the job or working with the
> organization.  Or... even know how to work well with others.  In any
> election, there are masses of uninformed voters and/or individuals
> that run under false-pretenses.  Just look at the last Florida
> gubernatorial election and where Andrew Gillum ended up (naked, asleep
> in his own vomit, with an escort overdosed on meth)... Gooooooooo,
> democracy.
> 
> The directors that are putting AMSAT through this should all step
> down, immediately.  Just because you were duly elected, doesn't mean
> you are doing a good job or representing AMSAT well (All attempts at
> virtuosity aside).  Do us all a favor, step down from your positions
> please.  This is the best service you can offer AMSAT.
> 
> Thank You,
> Joseph Armbruster
> KJ4JIO
> 
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 1:02 PM Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via
> AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi.
>> 
>> The following is the text of a letter sent on behalf of Michelle
>> Thompson W5NYV and me to AMSAT President Clayton Coleman W5PFG,
>> along with everyone who co-signed Clayton's letter of 10 July 2020.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
>> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
>> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> *********************************
>> Text of forwarded letter is below
>> *********************************
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> July 27, 2020
>> 
>> AMSAT Board Members
>> Clayton Coleman, President
>> 
>> 
>> Dear Sirs and Madam:
>> 
>> I am writing in my capacity as counsel to Michelle Thompson and Patrick
>> Stoddard regarding the letter to members entitled ?AMSAT Leadership
>> Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses? posted on July 10, 2020 (?Letter?).
>> Through the course of my representation of my clients, I know that
>> information included in this letter is patently false and defamatory
>> and has resulted in reputational harm to Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard.
>> On behalf of my clients, I demand that appropriate corrective action be
>> taken to address these falsehoods and prevent further harm to their
>> reputations.
>> 
>> The most egregious falsehood, among several, is the statement that
>> AMSAT is ?under attack? by my clients. Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard
>> have consistently worked to improve AMSAT ? and have done nothing to
>> attack or undermine the organization they support. It is true that my
>> clients have worked diligently to evaluate the mission, activities,
>> finances, and procedures of AMSAT. Specifically, they have taken steps
>> to increase the financial transparency of AMSAT, enforce the provisions
>> of its existing bylaws, and obtain access to corporate and financial
>> documents. They have done all of this work as volunteers, deeply
>> invested in the well-being and success of AMSAT as an organization.
>> While I understand that certain AMSAT officials may interpret my
>> clients? actions to be critical of their personal actions, it is simply
>> not true that AMSAT as an organization is ?under attack.? The broad
>> dissemination of a statement to the contrary is false, harms Ms.
>> Thompson?s and Mr. Stoddard?s ability to serve AMSAT and calls into
>> question their integrity.
>> 
>> As you know, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard were improperly denied
>> access to AMSAT?s corporate records. They had to retain my firm just to
>> be able to carry out their corporate responsibilities as Directors.
>> They now are questioning the propriety of the legal expenditures as
>> they have not been given any evidence that these expenses were ever
>> approved by board action, much less in advance of the engagement, as is
>> required by Article II, Section 1 of AMSAT?s bylaws. One of the
>> principal fiduciary responsibilities of all board members is to obey
>> the provisions of the organization?s governing documents. Rather than
>> ?disrupt and possibly defame? or ?publicly attack the integrity and
>> honor? of AMSAT Officers and Directors, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard
>> have merely been trying to review whether the AMSAT board has met this
>> important fiduciary obligation.
>> 
>> You noted, ?[t]he only powers that Directors have is when the Board is
>> in session and Board members make their vote? ? and yet, we are not
>> aware of any Board meeting in which this Letter was discussed. The fact
>> that five of the current Directors have decided to sign this letter
>> without conferring as a Board is good evidence that Directors may
>> choose to exercise his or her individual oversight role in the absence
>> of a Board meeting.
>> 
>> In conclusion, my clients are doing their best to improve financial
>> transparency and good governance in AMSAT. We agree that ?a poisonous
>> atmosphere makes it impossible for good ideas to be heard? and my
>> clients both wish to create instead an ?atmosphere of collaboration and
>> common purpose.? They ran on a reform platform and were duly elected by
>> the members to carry out that mandate.
>> 
>> With this letter, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard formally request that
>> the Letter be retracted and removed from AMSAT?s public website.
>> Alternatively, the Letter should, in consultation with my clients, be
>> corrected to accurately reflect the reality of their interactions with
>> AMSAT and its Board. Given that the unfounded accusations against my
>> clients harm their reputation and question their integrity, we request
>> action be taken no later than ten (10) days after the receipt of this
>> demand.
>> 
>> We look forward to your prompt attention to this matter.
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> Carolyn A. Klamp, Counsel
>> 
>> 
>> cc: Dr. Tom Clark
>>   Keith Baker,
>>   Jerry Buxton,
>>   Dr. Mark Hammond,
>>   Paul Stoetzer,
>>   Martha Saragovitz,
>>   Robert Bankston,
>>   Drew Glasbrenner,
>>   Bruce Paige
>>   Michelle Thompson
>>   Patrick Stoddard
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From robert.machale at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 30 18:46:17 2020
From: robert.machale at yahoo.com (Robert MacHale)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 18:46:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Save the Alabama Space Camp!
In-Reply-To: <50F0C00D-971D-4879-B170-001B9C3263E7@mac.com>
References: <50F0C00D-971D-4879-B170-001B9C3263E7@mac.com>
Message-ID: <778131869.9667301.1596134777920@mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks for sharing - I made a small contribution to their GoFundMe page.

I hope everyone at AmSat remembers to make a minimal contribution.

73

[1] For reference:?https://charity.gofundme.com/o/en/campaign/savespacecamp?

Robert MacHale
. KE6BLR FCC Licensed Radio Operator?
.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff!
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- THOMAS PAINE

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self. -- ERNEST HEMINGWAY






On Wednesday, July 29, 2020, 09:57:51 PM PDT, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote: 





The Alabama Space & Rocket Center is in financial trouble. Article and below that is this GoFundMe site: 
almost $500K of the needed $1.5MIL.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/29/us/us-space-rocket-center-alabama-close-donation-scn-trnd/index.html?fbclid=IwAR0aBojasSdZeQaq_c8ne4b4Yg5PfoFOsGJVjsMFmnvOxBAKkX6gtFRq4d0 <https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F2020%2F07%2F29%2Fus%2Fus-space-rocket-center-alabama-close-donation-scn-trnd%2Findex.html%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR1qTOR-9DKfe8glAfivExH-_oI9w92DfcA34n1rPQ_qf3J9FGzsIjuaurE&h=AT3Gwih9FCs9ZfVClg77g2qXyCAndR30ScZVsx3YoLLdO1av-tgJvXvWS2I9U1DxU4QW_0rLvcIu_btZfptCKLl98RO0wZmUJwfkFRN9YoV_HgKfvi2GpT0eO3ni5QDHAetApESYgpCt2cdjfW8Kl84&__tn__=-UK-R&c[0]=AT3VXw0LbytwM1NPZHbS8HQaDVAobjtzvacmuT0WwY_w4LDmwBMPBOZhlBZcfnb4LwpKPMllFBW6fjqa-qrDTiFIrFY-4dXTPxEsbbhzomGvdqOmBBjtzL93CeWiVhKldQtJRG8OJqry5eD_E4YDn847j4BLb0ajvEG5IN_Ys1nZC1JjE9o3WH2F4wYdT7-5EEFASSsQFAMldH1sqpLkrw>


https://charity.gofundme.com/o/en/campaign/savespacecamp <https://charity.gofundme.com/o/en/campaign/savespacecamp>

Clint Bradford K6LCS

PS Thought we had an Alabama ham around here ? Guess he hasn't heard of this wonderful institution!


_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From graham at shirville.com  Thu Jul 30 18:58:17 2020
From: graham at shirville.com (Graham Shirville)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 19:58:17 +0100
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-73 Frequency Shifts
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR02MB241477A78FF688109382AF89C0710@MWHPR02MB2414.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MWHPR02MB241477A78FF688109382AF89C0710@MWHPR02MB2414.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <8dc7723c-d727-36f5-f7e5-21e72054de45@shirville.com>

Hi Albert,

Not really a design flaw but more a design feature.

Basically, the designers were being shouted at to "keep the power 
consumption to a minimum" by the power budget supremo...when the 
oscillator circuits were designed, way back, low power equated to poor 
thermal drift performance...now we have better technology but back then 
it was a reasonable trade off.

Coming up next month, AO73-FUNcube-1 will be back in full sunlight so 
the onboard temperatures will stabilise again.

I hope you can still enjoy using the transponder!

73

Graham G3VZV for the FUNcube team.....

On 30/07/2020 17:17, Albert Ozias via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Why is AO-73 frequency more effected by time in sunlight than other birds? Is this a design flaw or a component failure?
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From alozias at live.com  Thu Jul 30 19:11:32 2020
From: alozias at live.com (Albert Ozias)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 19:11:32 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-73 Frequency Shifts
In-Reply-To: <8dc7723c-d727-36f5-f7e5-21e72054de45@shirville.com>
References: <MWHPR02MB241477A78FF688109382AF89C0710@MWHPR02MB2414.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>,
	<8dc7723c-d727-36f5-f7e5-21e72054de45@shirville.com>
Message-ID: <MWHPR02MB2414A9A14B846D339826AE64C0710@MWHPR02MB2414.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Thank you for the explanation.  I do enjoy the bird but it is a challenge which seems to limits the number of operators using it.

________________________________
From: Graham Shirville <graham at shirville.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2020 11:58 AM
To: Albert Ozias <alozias at live.com>; amsat-bb at amsat.org <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AO-73 Frequency Shifts

Hi Albert,

Not really a design flaw but more a design feature.

Basically, the designers were being shouted at to "keep the power
consumption to a minimum" by the power budget supremo...when the
oscillator circuits were designed, way back, low power equated to poor
thermal drift performance...now we have better technology but back then
it was a reasonable trade off.

Coming up next month, AO73-FUNcube-1 will be back in full sunlight so
the onboard temperatures will stabilise again.

I hope you can still enjoy using the transponder!

73

Graham G3VZV for the FUNcube team.....

On 30/07/2020 17:17, Albert Ozias via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Why is AO-73 frequency more effected by time in sunlight than other birds? Is this a design flaw or a component failure?
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From brennanprice at verizon.net  Thu Jul 30 19:17:32 2020
From: brennanprice at verizon.net (Brennan Price)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 19:17:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Once again, because I am being asked . . .
References: <695362984.8080672.1596136652366.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <695362984.8080672.1596136652366@mail.yahoo.com>

I have previously addressed the bylaws requirement of Article III, Section 3:

<<Duly nominated and eligible candidates . . . shall have use of the corporation?s mailing lists for election-related purposes at no cost to the corporation.>>

I construed this section to mean the postal mailing list, and the list provided to candidates who chose to accept it contained only names, call signs, and postal addresses.?

Beyond the previously described conditions on the duration of access and agency necessary to comply with data protection regulations, I have not and will not micromanage how candidates choose to use or cross-reference this list to public databases for election-related purposes, as it wouldn't be appropriate for me to do so.

73,
Brennan Price, N4QX
Secretary, Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation

From peter at magicbug.co.uk  Thu Jul 30 20:55:00 2020
From: peter at magicbug.co.uk (Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL))
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 21:55:00 +0100
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-73 Frequency Shifts
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR02MB2414A9A14B846D339826AE64C0710@MWHPR02MB2414.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MWHPR02MB241477A78FF688109382AF89C0710@MWHPR02MB2414.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
	<8dc7723c-d727-36f5-f7e5-21e72054de45@shirville.com>
	<MWHPR02MB2414A9A14B846D339826AE64C0710@MWHPR02MB2414.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAFvUaioxi+KpYE5s4eiW63=fvz-Es7DM99w4Sn2M-PDoiC=maA@mail.gmail.com>

Shouldn't be too much challenge, just use it manually without PC
control and its straightforward.

AO-73 is much for fun when twiddling both the vfos by hand.

Peter, 2M0SQL

On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 20:13, Albert Ozias via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Thank you for the explanation.  I do enjoy the bird but it is a challenge which seems to limits the number of operators using it.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Graham Shirville <graham at shirville.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2020 11:58 AM
> To: Albert Ozias <alozias at live.com>; amsat-bb at amsat.org <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AO-73 Frequency Shifts
>
> Hi Albert,
>
> Not really a design flaw but more a design feature.
>
> Basically, the designers were being shouted at to "keep the power
> consumption to a minimum" by the power budget supremo...when the
> oscillator circuits were designed, way back, low power equated to poor
> thermal drift performance...now we have better technology but back then
> it was a reasonable trade off.
>
> Coming up next month, AO73-FUNcube-1 will be back in full sunlight so
> the onboard temperatures will stabilise again.
>
> I hope you can still enjoy using the transponder!
>
> 73
>
> Graham G3VZV for the FUNcube team.....
>
> On 30/07/2020 17:17, Albert Ozias via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > Why is AO-73 frequency more effected by time in sunlight than other birds? Is this a design flaw or a component failure?
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From howied231 at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 31 00:03:49 2020
From: howied231 at hotmail.com (Howie DeFelice)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 00:03:49 +0000
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Critical Election
In-Reply-To: <CAEMY9FeSfXOVJAg0kmxD4Ad2vFM58PQhRkTFAbNvR_SfcBc+fw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5F.D4.27601.524522F5@mtl-mtsp-mta02-out1>,
	<CAEMY9FeSfXOVJAg0kmxD4Ad2vFM58PQhRkTFAbNvR_SfcBc+fw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR14MB3517F69B2F06FD600E6E022CE7710@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Dave,

That is a great question. I asked a similar quest of Clayton Coleman last year when AMSAT sent me a time critical email to an address I rarely used. If AMSAT had an email list candidates should have access to it. The answer I got was that AMSAT did not, and officially still does not apparently, have an email list for members and he obtained my email from QRZ.com. AMSAT does provide candidates with a mailing list that includes callsigns so I looked up all the callsigns on the AMSAT mailing list in QRZ.com (over 2200 of them) and did my own email broadcast.  I did not use an outside firm and the email list will be treated with the same rules that govern the mailing list we were provided.  I did have to lease access to a commercial smtp relay service, buy some software and modify my web site DNS but it was a fraction of the cost and much faster than sending snail mail. Welcome to the 21st century ? The email had an unsubscribe link if you don't want to receive any additional mail from me.

73,
Howie AB2S


________________________________
From: Dave Webb KB1PVH <kb1pvh at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2020 1:59 PM
To: Howie DeFelice <hdefelice at ab2s.freeservers.com>; AMSAT -BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: Re: AMSAT Critical Election

Out of curiosity, did AMSAT supply email addresses to the candidates and if not how did a candidate get email addresses of AMSAT members?

Dave-KB1PVH


Sent from my Galaxy S9

On Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 1:01 AM Howie DeFelice <hdefelice at ab2s.freeservers.com<mailto:hdefelice at ab2s.freeservers.com>> wrote:







Your vote will determine the future of AMSAT


 My name is Howie DeFelice and I am running for the AMSAT board of directors. You probably have read my short candidate statement that came along with your ballot. You can find much more in depth information about me and my ideas on my web site at www.ab2s.freeservers.com<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftrack.smtpsendemail.com%2F9026972%2Fc%3Fp%3DEjQ7tXvsYnBDjFRcefprDeK9ZMrjiwnhwu1PoCNwQCOhol0d6TOWC01wpinvMUNi7-98ONNxia1MR-IC7uyR23vVYx1tK1TCPnYKm-2C3d9f2hbW2kfe04GG5yNT26N2qcRALnRe0WwVuOleo-bC5Q%3D%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1bbae00e6e5b42aa491108d834b248ef%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637317287610480529&sdata=Tc8WiEs%2FpEYEcB15jlcqebSycWMh3aCeEzedlKe%2Fsc8%3D&reserved=0>.

 I have received many emails and read many comments on the AMSAT-BB that support the idea of moving the orgnization to a more proactive posture. I have long felt there were a large segments of the membership that felt they were not being heard and the comments I have been getting have proved that to be true. If you are one of those that feel that AMSAT has become a specialized contest club, that technical advancement is lagging and the needs of ALL the membership are not being heard, now is your chance to make a difference.

 It's going to take a lot of hard work to get the organization back on it's  founding path and will require a majority of like minded individuals. We need to add two more dedicated directors to the board this election to begin making progress, like being able to call regular board meetings. Please consider voting for me and my associates; Dr. Bob McGwire and Mr. Jeff Johns. Your vote WILL make a difference.

Thank you for your time,

Howie DeFelice AB2S

Unsubscribe by email<mailto:ab2s at amsat.org?subject=Unsubscribe>

________________________________





You received this email as a member of AMSAT



From dave at druidnetworks.com  Fri Jul 31 02:19:55 2020
From: dave at druidnetworks.com (David Swanson)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 21:19:55 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Critical Election
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR14MB3517F69B2F06FD600E6E022CE7710@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <5F.D4.27601.524522F5@mtl-mtsp-mta02-out1>
	<CAEMY9FeSfXOVJAg0kmxD4Ad2vFM58PQhRkTFAbNvR_SfcBc+fw@mail.gmail.com>
	<MN2PR14MB3517F69B2F06FD600E6E022CE7710@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CANq+eyUp2seM=qbfnFTxiED9EBpWdTNSSWcHCpVe_1FHCLBYew@mail.gmail.com>

I would highly recommend everyone who got this unsolicited email to use
their email provider's 'Report as Spam' function. What this does is let
your provider know this was unwanted messaging, and flags the originating
relay (the actual computer that sent the emails out) as a bad actor. If
enough folks flag said server as a bad actor, that server will start
getting ignored by the internet's email infrastructure thru a series of
blocklists and reputation databases. I flagged the first email this morning
as such, and I've been slowly watching the commercial vendor's relay climb
in the 'bad reputation' score all day. Normally inexpensive relay services
also have provisions that require someone renting their servers to have
*explicit* (that is, opt-in) permission from their receivers, or they risk
paying exorbitant fees for breaking the rules. I haven't dug into the TOS
of this particular relay service yet, but I would guess it's no different.
I'm sure Candidate DeFelice and Candidate Johns were aware of this fine
print when they chose to use this service, so they must have deeper pockets
than me.

The beauty of the internet today is it's largely a self policing group of
operators and engineers who just want things to work, and jerks to go
away.. and that's normally how it all goes down. Welcome to the 21st
century.

-Dave, KG5CCI

On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 7:07 PM Howie DeFelice via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Hi Dave,
>
> That is a great question. I asked a similar quest of Clayton Coleman last
> year when AMSAT sent me a time critical email to an address I rarely used.
> If AMSAT had an email list candidates should have access to it. The answer
> I got was that AMSAT did not, and officially still does not apparently,
> have an email list for members and he obtained my email from QRZ.com. AMSAT
> does provide candidates with a mailing list that includes callsigns so I
> looked up all the callsigns on the AMSAT mailing list in QRZ.com (over 2200
> of them) and did my own email broadcast.  I did not use an outside firm and
> the email list will be treated with the same rules that govern the mailing
> list we were provided.  I did have to lease access to a commercial smtp
> relay service, buy some software and modify my web site DNS but it was a
> fraction of the cost and much faster than sending snail mail. Welcome to
> the 21st century ? The email had an unsubscribe link if you don't want to
> receive any additional mail from me.
>
> 73,
> Howie AB2S
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dave Webb KB1PVH <kb1pvh at gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2020 1:59 PM
> To: Howie DeFelice <hdefelice at ab2s.freeservers.com>; AMSAT -BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Subject: Re: AMSAT Critical Election
>
> Out of curiosity, did AMSAT supply email addresses to the candidates and
> if not how did a candidate get email addresses of AMSAT members?
>
> Dave-KB1PVH
>
>
> Sent from my Galaxy S9
>
> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 1:01 AM Howie DeFelice <
> hdefelice at ab2s.freeservers.com<mailto:hdefelice at ab2s.freeservers.com>>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your vote will determine the future of AMSAT
>
>
>  My name is Howie DeFelice and I am running for the AMSAT board of
> directors. You probably have read my short candidate statement that came
> along with your ballot. You can find much more in depth information about
> me and my ideas on my web site at www.ab2s.freeservers.com<
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftrack.smtpsendemail.com%2F9026972%2Fc%3Fp%3DEjQ7tXvsYnBDjFRcefprDeK9ZMrjiwnhwu1PoCNwQCOhol0d6TOWC01wpinvMUNi7-98ONNxia1MR-IC7uyR23vVYx1tK1TCPnYKm-2C3d9f2hbW2kfe04GG5yNT26N2qcRALnRe0WwVuOleo-bC5Q%3D%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1bbae00e6e5b42aa491108d834b248ef%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637317287610480529&sdata=Tc8WiEs%2FpEYEcB15jlcqebSycWMh3aCeEzedlKe%2Fsc8%3D&reserved=0
> >.
>
>  I have received many emails and read many comments on the AMSAT-BB that
> support the idea of moving the orgnization to a more proactive posture. I
> have long felt there were a large segments of the membership that felt they
> were not being heard and the comments I have been getting have proved that
> to be true. If you are one of those that feel that AMSAT has become a
> specialized contest club, that technical advancement is lagging and the
> needs of ALL the membership are not being heard, now is your chance to make
> a difference.
>
>  It's going to take a lot of hard work to get the organization back on
> it's  founding path and will require a majority of like minded individuals.
> We need to add two more dedicated directors to the board this election to
> begin making progress, like being able to call regular board meetings.
> Please consider voting for me and my associates; Dr. Bob McGwire and Mr.
> Jeff Johns. Your vote WILL make a difference.
>
> Thank you for your time,
>
> Howie DeFelice AB2S
>
> Unsubscribe by email<mailto:ab2s at amsat.org?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
> You received this email as a member of AMSAT
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From aj9n at aol.com  Fri Jul 31 02:41:53 2020
From: aj9n at aol.com (aj9n at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 02:41:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-07-31 02:30
	UTC
References: <1390744024.6898995.1596163313270.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1390744024.6898995.1596163313270@mail.yahoo.com>


Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2020-07-31 02:30 UTC

?

Quick list of scheduled contacts and events:

?

American School of Rio de Janeiro, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, Multi-point telebridge via ON4ISS 

The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be OR4ISS 

The scheduled astronaut is Chris Cassidy KF5KDR 

Contact was successful: Thu 2020-07-30 16:41:42 UTC 78 deg (***)

?

Watch for live simulcast starting about 10 minutes before AOS at: https://youtu.be/MSyfzEHYwrE??(***)

?

?

########################################################################################################################################

A multi-point telebridge contact means that each student will be on the telebridge from their own home.

*************************************************

?

ARISS is very aware of the impact that COVID-19 is having on schools and the public in general.? As such, we may have last minute cancellations or postponements of school contacts.? As always, I will try to provide everyone with near-real-time updates.? 

?

The following schools have now been postponed or cancelled due to COVID-19:? 

?

Postponed:

No new schools

?

Cancelled:

No new schools

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

?

Watch for future COVID-19 related announcements here also.

?

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

?

Note, all times are approximate. ?It is recommended that you do your own 

orbital prediction?or start listening about 10 minutes before the listed 

time. 

All dates and times listed follow International Standard ISO 8601 date and 

time format YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS

?

The complete schedule page has been updated as of?2020-07-31 02:30 UTC. (***)

Here you will find a listing of all scheduled?school contacts, and 

questions, other ISS related websites, IRLP and Echolink websites, and 

instructions for any contact that may be streamed live.

?

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf 

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.txt 

?

?

The successful school list has been updated as of 2020-07-31 02:30 UTC. (***)

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/Successful_ARISS_schools.rtf 

?

?

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

The main page for Applying to Host a Scheduled Contact may be found at https://www.ariss.org/apply-to-host-an-ariss-contact.html ???

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States)

?

The ARISS webpage is at https://www.ariss.org/ ???

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

?

Message to US Educators

?

ARISS Contact Applications (United States) 

?

The Proposal Window of February 1, 2020 to March 31, 2020 has now closed.

?

For future proposal information and more details such as expectations, proposal guidelines and proposal form, and dates and times of Information Webinars, go to www.ariss.org.

?

Please direct any questions to?ariss.us.education at gmail.com.

?

About ARISS:

?

Amateur Radio on the International Space Station (ARISS) is a cooperative venture of international amateur radio societies and the space agencies that support the International Space Station (ISS).? In the United States, sponsors are the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT), the American Radio Relay League (ARRL), the ISS National Lab and National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). The primary goal of ARISS is to promote exploration of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEAM) topics by organizing scheduled contacts via amateur radio between crew members aboard the ISS and students in classrooms or public forms. Before and during these radio contacts, students, educators, parents, and communities learn about space, space technologies, and amateur radio. For more information, see www.ariss.org.

?

********************************************************************************

ARISS Contact Applications (Europe, Africa and the Middle East)

?

Schools and Youth organizations in Europe, Africa and the Middle East interested in setting up an ARISS radio contact with an astronaut on board the International Space Station are invited to submit an application from September to October and from February to April.

Please refer to details and the application form at www.ariss-eu.org/school-contacts.? Applications should be addressed by email to:? school.selection.manager at ariss-eu.org

?

ARISS Contact Applications (Canada, Central and South America, Asia and Australia and Russia)

?

Organizations outside the United States can apply for an ARISS contact by filling out an application.? Please direct questions to the appropriate regional representative listed below. If your country is not specifically listed, send your questions to the nearest ARISS Region listed. If you are unsure which address to use, please send your question to the ARISS-Canada representative; they will forward your question to the appropriate coordinator.

?

For the application, go to:? https://www.ariss.org/ariss-application.html.

ARISS-Canada and the Americas, except USA: Steve McFarlane, VE3TBD email to: ve3tbd at gmail.com

ARISS-Japan, Asia, Pacific and Australia: Satoshi Yasuda, 7M3TJZ email to: ariss at iaru-r3.org, Japan Amateur Radio League (JARL) https://www.jarl.org/

ARISS-Russia: Soyuz Radioljubitelei Rossii (SRR) https://srr.ru/

?

?

******************************************************************************

ARISS is always glad to receive listener reports for the above contacts.? ARISS thanks everyone in advance for their assistance.? Feel free to send your reports to aj9n at amsat.org or aj9n at aol.com.

?

Listen for the ISS on the downlink of 145.8? MHz.

?

*******************************************************************************

?

All ARISS contacts are made via the Kenwood radio unless otherwise noted.

?

*******************************************************************************


Several of you have sent me emails asking about the RAC ARISS website and 
not being able to get in. ?That has now been changed to https://www.ariss.org/

?

Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.

?

****************************************************************************

Looking for something new to do?? How about receiving DATV from the ISS?? Please note that the HamTV system has been brought back to earth for troubleshooting.? Please monitor ARISS-EU or ARISS-ON for the very latest news on the troubleshooting efforts.? 

?

If interested, then please go to the ARISS-EU website for complete details.? Look for the buttons indicating Ham Video.???????????? 

?

http://www.ariss-eu.org/

?

If you need some assistance, ARISS mentor Kerry N6IZW, might be able to provide some insight.? Contact Kerry at kbanke at sbcglobal.net

?

?

The HamTV webpage:? https://www.amsat-on.be/hamtv-summary/

?

?

****************************************************************************
ARISS congratulations the following mentors who have now mentored over 100 schools: 

?

Francesco IK?WGF with 140

Satoshi 7M3TJZ with 138 

Sergey RV3DR with 134 

Gaston ON4WF with 123

?

****************************************************************************

The webpages listed below were all reviewed for accuracy. Out of date 

webpages were removed, and new ones have been added.? If there are additional 

ARISS websites I need to know about, please let me know.

?

?

?

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school events is 1393. (***)

Each school counts as 1 event.?????????????????????????????????? 

Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school contacts is 1326. (***)

Each contact may have multiple schools sharing the same time slot.

Total number of ARISS supported terrestrial contacts is 48. 

?

A complete year by year breakdown of the contacts may be found in the 

file.

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf

?

Please feel free to contact me if more detailed statistics are needed.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



The following US states and entities have never had an ARISS contact:
South Dakota, Wyoming, American?Samoa, Guam, Northern Marianas Islands, and the Virgin Islands.

?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

?

QSL information may be found at:

https://www.ariss.org/qsl-cards.html

?

ISS callsigns: DP?ISS, IR?ISS, NA1SS, OR4ISS, RS?ISS

?

****************************************************************************



Frequency chart for packet, voice, and crossband repeater modes showing 

Doppler correction as of 2005-07-29 04:00 UTC

https://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/ISS_frequencies_and_Doppler_correction.rtf



Check out the Zoho reports of the ARISS contacts

?

https://reports.zoho.com/ZDBDataSheetView.cc?DBID=412218000000020415

****************************************************************************

?

Exp. 62 now on orbit 

Chris Cassidy KF5KDR

Anatoli Ivanishin

Ivan Vagner

?

SpaceX-Demo2 now on orbit 

Bob Behnken KE5GGX

Doug Hurley

?

****************************************************************************

73,

Charlie?Sufana AJ9N
One of the ARISS operation team mentors

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?



From tnetcenter at gmail.com  Fri Jul 31 03:05:19 2020
From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 20:05:19 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Critical Election
In-Reply-To: <CANq+eyUp2seM=qbfnFTxiED9EBpWdTNSSWcHCpVe_1FHCLBYew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5F.D4.27601.524522F5@mtl-mtsp-mta02-out1>
	<CAEMY9FeSfXOVJAg0kmxD4Ad2vFM58PQhRkTFAbNvR_SfcBc+fw@mail.gmail.com>
	<MN2PR14MB3517F69B2F06FD600E6E022CE7710@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
	<CANq+eyUp2seM=qbfnFTxiED9EBpWdTNSSWcHCpVe_1FHCLBYew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALx_moRehAn2JLhsuBi4pJ-cdWise=_e5=HfQdX73g4_Q3v31g@mail.gmail.com>

I love it!  (NOT!!!)   deliberate election interference  -- you should be
proud!!  Tips for democrats trying to overthrow a FEDERAL election!!

This is why I will probably NEVER become an AMSAT member  -  too many
liberals in charge!

KE7ACY

On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 7:23 PM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I would highly recommend everyone who got this unsolicited email to use
> their email provider's 'Report as Spam' function. What this does is let
> your provider know this was unwanted messaging, and flags the originating
> relay (the actual computer that sent the emails out) as a bad actor. If
> enough folks flag said server as a bad actor, that server will start
> getting ignored by the internet's email infrastructure thru a series of
> blocklists and reputation databases. I flagged the first email this morning
> as such, and I've been slowly watching the commercial vendor's relay climb
> in the 'bad reputation' score all day. Normally inexpensive relay services
> also have provisions that require someone renting their servers to have
> *explicit* (that is, opt-in) permission from their receivers, or they risk
> paying exorbitant fees for breaking the rules. I haven't dug into the TOS
> of this particular relay service yet, but I would guess it's no different.
> I'm sure Candidate DeFelice and Candidate Johns were aware of this fine
> print when they chose to use this service, so they must have deeper pockets
> than me.
>
> The beauty of the internet today is it's largely a self policing group of
> operators and engineers who just want things to work, and jerks to go
> away.. and that's normally how it all goes down. Welcome to the 21st
> century.
>
> -Dave, KG5CCI
>
> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 7:07 PM Howie DeFelice via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi Dave,
> >
> > That is a great question. I asked a similar quest of Clayton Coleman last
> > year when AMSAT sent me a time critical email to an address I rarely
> used.
> > If AMSAT had an email list candidates should have access to it. The
> answer
> > I got was that AMSAT did not, and officially still does not apparently,
> > have an email list for members and he obtained my email from QRZ.com.
> AMSAT
> > does provide candidates with a mailing list that includes callsigns so I
> > looked up all the callsigns on the AMSAT mailing list in QRZ.com (over
> 2200
> > of them) and did my own email broadcast.  I did not use an outside firm
> and
> > the email list will be treated with the same rules that govern the
> mailing
> > list we were provided.  I did have to lease access to a commercial smtp
> > relay service, buy some software and modify my web site DNS but it was a
> > fraction of the cost and much faster than sending snail mail. Welcome to
> > the 21st century ? The email had an unsubscribe link if you don't want
> to
> > receive any additional mail from me.
> >
> > 73,
> > Howie AB2S
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Dave Webb KB1PVH <kb1pvh at gmail.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2020 1:59 PM
> > To: Howie DeFelice <hdefelice at ab2s.freeservers.com>; AMSAT -BB <
> > amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> > Subject: Re: AMSAT Critical Election
> >
> > Out of curiosity, did AMSAT supply email addresses to the candidates and
> > if not how did a candidate get email addresses of AMSAT members?
> >
> > Dave-KB1PVH
> >
> >
> > Sent from my Galaxy S9
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 1:01 AM Howie DeFelice <
> > hdefelice at ab2s.freeservers.com<mailto:hdefelice at ab2s.freeservers.com>>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your vote will determine the future of AMSAT
> >
> >
> >  My name is Howie DeFelice and I am running for the AMSAT board of
> > directors. You probably have read my short candidate statement that came
> > along with your ballot. You can find much more in depth information about
> > me and my ideas on my web site at www.ab2s.freeservers.com<
> >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftrack.smtpsendemail.com%2F9026972%2Fc%3Fp%3DEjQ7tXvsYnBDjFRcefprDeK9ZMrjiwnhwu1PoCNwQCOhol0d6TOWC01wpinvMUNi7-98ONNxia1MR-IC7uyR23vVYx1tK1TCPnYKm-2C3d9f2hbW2kfe04GG5yNT26N2qcRALnRe0WwVuOleo-bC5Q%3D%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1bbae00e6e5b42aa491108d834b248ef%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637317287610480529&sdata=Tc8WiEs%2FpEYEcB15jlcqebSycWMh3aCeEzedlKe%2Fsc8%3D&reserved=0
> > >.
> >
> >  I have received many emails and read many comments on the AMSAT-BB that
> > support the idea of moving the orgnization to a more proactive posture. I
> > have long felt there were a large segments of the membership that felt
> they
> > were not being heard and the comments I have been getting have proved
> that
> > to be true. If you are one of those that feel that AMSAT has become a
> > specialized contest club, that technical advancement is lagging and the
> > needs of ALL the membership are not being heard, now is your chance to
> make
> > a difference.
> >
> >  It's going to take a lot of hard work to get the organization back on
> > it's  founding path and will require a majority of like minded
> individuals.
> > We need to add two more dedicated directors to the board this election to
> > begin making progress, like being able to call regular board meetings.
> > Please consider voting for me and my associates; Dr. Bob McGwire and Mr.
> > Jeff Johns. Your vote WILL make a difference.
> >
> > Thank you for your time,
> >
> > Howie DeFelice AB2S
> >
> > Unsubscribe by email<mailto:ab2s at amsat.org?subject=Unsubscribe>
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > You received this email as a member of AMSAT
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From w3ab at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 31 03:44:19 2020
From: w3ab at yahoo.com (W3AB/GEO)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 20:44:19 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Critical Election
In-Reply-To: <CALx_moRehAn2JLhsuBi4pJ-cdWise=_e5=HfQdX73g4_Q3v31g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5F.D4.27601.524522F5@mtl-mtsp-mta02-out1>
	<CAEMY9FeSfXOVJAg0kmxD4Ad2vFM58PQhRkTFAbNvR_SfcBc+fw@mail.gmail.com>
	<MN2PR14MB3517F69B2F06FD600E6E022CE7710@MN2PR14MB3517.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
	<CANq+eyUp2seM=qbfnFTxiED9EBpWdTNSSWcHCpVe_1FHCLBYew@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALx_moRehAn2JLhsuBi4pJ-cdWise=_e5=HfQdX73g4_Q3v31g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3b7d83a4-f4cb-4a40-bfd5-482e198f8a34@yahoo.com>

Totally uncalled for.

?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?

On Jul 30, 2020, 20:14, at 20:14, Jeff Moore via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>I love it!  (NOT!!!)   deliberate election interference  -- you should
>be
>proud!!  Tips for democrats trying to overthrow a FEDERAL election!!
>
>This is why I will probably NEVER become an AMSAT member  -  too many
>liberals in charge!
>
>KE7ACY
>
>On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 7:23 PM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <
>amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> I would highly recommend everyone who got this unsolicited email to
>use
>> their email provider's 'Report as Spam' function. What this does is
>let
>> your provider know this was unwanted messaging, and flags the
>originating
>> relay (the actual computer that sent the emails out) as a bad actor.
>If
>> enough folks flag said server as a bad actor, that server will start
>> getting ignored by the internet's email infrastructure thru a series
>of
>> blocklists and reputation databases. I flagged the first email this
>morning
>> as such, and I've been slowly watching the commercial vendor's relay
>climb
>> in the 'bad reputation' score all day. Normally inexpensive relay
>services
>> also have provisions that require someone renting their servers to
>have
>> *explicit* (that is, opt-in) permission from their receivers, or they
>risk
>> paying exorbitant fees for breaking the rules. I haven't dug into the
>TOS
>> of this particular relay service yet, but I would guess it's no
>different.
>> I'm sure Candidate DeFelice and Candidate Johns were aware of this
>fine
>> print when they chose to use this service, so they must have deeper
>pockets
>> than me.
>>
>> The beauty of the internet today is it's largely a self policing
>group of
>> operators and engineers who just want things to work, and jerks to go
>> away.. and that's normally how it all goes down. Welcome to the 21st
>> century.
>>
>> -Dave, KG5CCI
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 7:07 PM Howie DeFelice via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Dave,
>> >
>> > That is a great question. I asked a similar quest of Clayton
>Coleman last
>> > year when AMSAT sent me a time critical email to an address I
>rarely
>> used.
>> > If AMSAT had an email list candidates should have access to it. The
>> answer
>> > I got was that AMSAT did not, and officially still does not
>apparently,
>> > have an email list for members and he obtained my email from
>QRZ.com.
>> AMSAT
>> > does provide candidates with a mailing list that includes callsigns
>so I
>> > looked up all the callsigns on the AMSAT mailing list in QRZ.com
>(over
>> 2200
>> > of them) and did my own email broadcast.  I did not use an outside
>firm
>> and
>> > the email list will be treated with the same rules that govern the
>> mailing
>> > list we were provided.  I did have to lease access to a commercial
>smtp
>> > relay service, buy some software and modify my web site DNS but it
>was a
>> > fraction of the cost and much faster than sending snail mail.
>Welcome to
>> > the 21st century ? The email had an unsubscribe link if you don't
>want
>> to
>> > receive any additional mail from me.
>> >
>> > 73,
>> > Howie AB2S
>> >
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> > From: Dave Webb KB1PVH <kb1pvh at gmail.com>
>> > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2020 1:59 PM
>> > To: Howie DeFelice <hdefelice at ab2s.freeservers.com>; AMSAT -BB <
>> > amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> > Subject: Re: AMSAT Critical Election
>> >
>> > Out of curiosity, did AMSAT supply email addresses to the
>candidates and
>> > if not how did a candidate get email addresses of AMSAT members?
>> >
>> > Dave-KB1PVH
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent from my Galaxy S9
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 1:01 AM Howie DeFelice <
>> >
>hdefelice at ab2s.freeservers.com<mailto:hdefelice at ab2s.freeservers.com>>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Your vote will determine the future of AMSAT
>> >
>> >
>> >  My name is Howie DeFelice and I am running for the AMSAT board of
>> > directors. You probably have read my short candidate statement that
>came
>> > along with your ballot. You can find much more in depth information
>about
>> > me and my ideas on my web site at www.ab2s.freeservers.com<
>> >
>>
>https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftrack.smtpsendemail.com%2F9026972%2Fc%3Fp%3DEjQ7tXvsYnBDjFRcefprDeK9ZMrjiwnhwu1PoCNwQCOhol0d6TOWC01wpinvMUNi7-98ONNxia1MR-IC7uyR23vVYx1tK1TCPnYKm-2C3d9f2hbW2kfe04GG5yNT26N2qcRALnRe0WwVuOleo-bC5Q%3D%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1bbae00e6e5b42aa491108d834b248ef%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637317287610480529&sdata=Tc8WiEs%2FpEYEcB15jlcqebSycWMh3aCeEzedlKe%2Fsc8%3D&reserved=0
>> > >.
>> >
>> >  I have received many emails and read many comments on the AMSAT-BB
>that
>> > support the idea of moving the orgnization to a more proactive
>posture. I
>> > have long felt there were a large segments of the membership that
>felt
>> they
>> > were not being heard and the comments I have been getting have
>proved
>> that
>> > to be true. If you are one of those that feel that AMSAT has become
>a
>> > specialized contest club, that technical advancement is lagging and
>the
>> > needs of ALL the membership are not being heard, now is your chance
>to
>> make
>> > a difference.
>> >
>> >  It's going to take a lot of hard work to get the organization back
>on
>> > it's  founding path and will require a majority of like minded
>> individuals.
>> > We need to add two more dedicated directors to the board this
>election to
>> > begin making progress, like being able to call regular board
>meetings.
>> > Please consider voting for me and my associates; Dr. Bob McGwire
>and Mr.
>> > Jeff Johns. Your vote WILL make a difference.
>> >
>> > Thank you for your time,
>> >
>> > Howie DeFelice AB2S
>> >
>> > Unsubscribe by email<mailto:ab2s at amsat.org?subject=Unsubscribe>
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > You received this email as a member of AMSAT
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions
>> > expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>views of
>> > AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > Subscription settings:
>https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>> Subscription settings:
>https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From clintbradford at mac.com  Fri Jul 31 05:08:19 2020
From: clintbradford at mac.com (Clint Bradford)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 22:08:19 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Message-ID: <464D17ED-8713-4086-88F2-067D791DA6EE@mac.com>

Gawd, did someone sue AMSAT-NA to obtain a membership email mailing list or something?

All sorts of campaign statements from folks who don?t deserve votes in my IN BOX this evening ?

No need to reply.

Clint Bradford K6LCS

From ewpereira at gmail.com  Fri Jul 31 12:05:29 2020
From: ewpereira at gmail.com (Edson W. R. Pereira)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 09:05:29 -0300
Subject: [amsat-bb] Jan King
Message-ID: <CALNQy4_MKtkQKi=CsBJkfZw=b5YZDkyhs4jBx3qfvuiAqsH__g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ray,

Do you have an email address to Jan King? I read a paper he wrote about
experiments with cubesats in the Ka band, but the email he used seems no
longer valid.

73, Edson PY2SDR

From ns3l at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 31 14:00:33 2020
From: ns3l at yahoo.com (Steve Nordahl)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 14:00:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Critical Election
References: <1369278981.10048765.1596204033483.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1369278981.10048765.1596204033483@mail.yahoo.com>

I wonder why some members have a major problem getting unsolicited emails possibly obtained from QRZ or other from a prospective candidate(s), but don't blow up when another group representing incumbents use QRZ or other to get addresses to send out unsolicited preprinted mail?

Steve NS3L

From rsoifer1 at aol.com  Fri Jul 31 14:06:17 2020
From: rsoifer1 at aol.com (Ray Soifer)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 14:06:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] The future of AMSAT
References: <437851525.8358907.1596204377010.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <437851525.8358907.1596204377010@mail.yahoo.com>

Joe,

With a little ingenuity, including choice of licensing country, we can have legal digital gateway stations.? Operating rules can be changed if necessary, although we have to stay within license regulations.? I didn't say that such stations would be cheap, although such a network would cost a lot less than trying to build our own HEO.? As a point of reference, AO-40 cost about $5 million in today's dollars, roughly half of which was raised by AMSAT-NA and? ARRL.? It was my bad luck to be acting president of AMSAT-NA during the failure and partial recovery of AO-40.? I'll never forget the great work done to get it back in operation, and those who did it. I hope we'll never have to go through something like that again, but after all it IS rocket science.

73 Ray W2RS

From johnbrier at gmail.com  Fri Jul 31 14:29:16 2020
From: johnbrier at gmail.com (John Brier)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 10:29:16 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Critical Election
In-Reply-To: <1369278981.10048765.1596204033483@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1369278981.10048765.1596204033483.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1369278981.10048765.1596204033483@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CALn0fKPXmEQmvFXt3Sv=2JQU88FXA+JL0Ca44z7anPA74AskJg@mail.gmail.com>

Also, when others last year did the same thing it was referred to as
"buying the election."

73, John Brier KG4AKV

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 10:03 Steve Nordahl via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> I wonder why some members have a major problem getting unsolicited emails
> possibly obtained from QRZ or other from a prospective candidate(s), but
> don't blow up when another group representing incumbents use QRZ or other
> to get addresses to send out unsolicited preprinted mail?
>
> Steve NS3L
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From rwmcgwier at gmail.com  Fri Jul 31 14:31:13 2020
From: rwmcgwier at gmail.com (Robert McGwier)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 09:31:13 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] Hawkeye 360 2nd cluster in the chamber.
Message-ID: <CA+K5gzd7r-11mUTCBJ8bFPdvMr2NjvX3B9zpvfjOZHGXDaDm8g@mail.gmail.com>

Hawkeye 360's next cluster is in the chamber getting tested. This is so
cool. I will never forget my experience testing the Microsats for AMSAT the
last century. Thank you AMSAT for all you have been to me.

Check this photo out.

73s Bob N4HY



https://drive.google.com/file/d/1StsK2w7x05tHcHP6wHfFZF8iFX-Quuqs/view?usp=drivesdk

From charlieray at gmail.com  Fri Jul 31 14:50:29 2020
From: charlieray at gmail.com (Charles Reiche)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 10:50:29 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Critical Election
In-Reply-To: <1369278981.10048765.1596204033483@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1369278981.10048765.1596204033483.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1369278981.10048765.1596204033483@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAMkCmDqXea4AJCHwVQLJtz-+GNvAZv__LHntDJTmNfiv0zHqcA@mail.gmail.com>

Steve,
The mailing list is provided to candidates, email addresses are not.
Everyone has to determine *on their own* whether or not the correlation of
the mailing list to email addresses scraped out of QRZ to be legitimate.
The mailing is provided by the bylaws of AMSAT as per the election process,
and has been for years!
If that needs to be changed, bring it up in a formal manner.  A list of
whatever you are agreeing to when joining AMSAT should be made available to
the membership. Then if an opt-out process is adopted, people should be
able to opt-out. It will save postage.  Seems reasonable, but also creates
work for volunteers that doesn't seem to be related to building and
launching satellites, other than saving a few stamps.



73
N3CRT
Charles Reiche


On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 10:03 AM Steve Nordahl via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> I wonder why some members have a major problem getting unsolicited emails
> possibly obtained from QRZ or other from a prospective candidate(s), but
> don't blow up when another group representing incumbents use QRZ or other
> to get addresses to send out unsolicited preprinted mail?
>
> Steve NS3L
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From royldean at gmail.com  Fri Jul 31 14:52:20 2020
From: royldean at gmail.com (Roy Dean)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 10:52:20 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Hawkeye 360 2nd cluster in the chamber.
Message-ID: <CADGPg2sPjST-OS=UCV_xpJ=hud9yQswJraX+-cg9X3+x55k+qQ@mail.gmail.com>

That's exactly what my ham shack looks like.

--Roy
K3RLD

> Check this photo out.
>
> 73s Bob N4HY
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1StsK2w7x05tHcHP6wHfFZF8iFX-Quuqs/view?usp=drivesdk
>
>

From tucker at mcguireland.com  Fri Jul 31 15:00:37 2020
From: tucker at mcguireland.com (Tucker McGuire)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 11:00:37 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] Hawkeye 360 2nd cluster in the chamber.
In-Reply-To: <CA+K5gzd7r-11mUTCBJ8bFPdvMr2NjvX3B9zpvfjOZHGXDaDm8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+K5gzd7r-11mUTCBJ8bFPdvMr2NjvX3B9zpvfjOZHGXDaDm8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+gmQJSKVK10MjjSN9N9jpNW4vMc1nAa3+EVMxuH6mYCmQGbLA@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Bob,

While this is impressive, and the advancement of the company is also
impressive, it's also a commercial venture and isn't connected to the
amateur satellite space. It would be nice if on this BB we could stick to
amateur sats and reserve posts about commercial satellite ventures for a
more appropriate space.

With that said, if it's your company, perhaps you could incorporate some
ham payloads into the spacecraft, at that point it would become very
appropriate for this list ;)

Best,
Tucker
W4FS/VE9FS

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 10:51 AM Robert McGwier via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Hawkeye 360's next cluster is in the chamber getting tested. This is so
> cool. I will never forget my experience testing the Microsats for AMSAT the
> last century. Thank you AMSAT for all you have been to me.
>
> Check this photo out.
>
> 73s Bob N4HY
>
>
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1StsK2w7x05tHcHP6wHfFZF8iFX-Quuqs/view?usp=drivesdk
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Fri Jul 31 15:13:56 2020
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (Joseph Armbruster)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 11:13:56 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Critical Election
In-Reply-To: <CALn0fKPXmEQmvFXt3Sv=2JQU88FXA+JL0Ca44z7anPA74AskJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1369278981.10048765.1596204033483.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1369278981.10048765.1596204033483@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CALn0fKPXmEQmvFXt3Sv=2JQU88FXA+JL0Ca44z7anPA74AskJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkz4c8q=zzMXyaO61g=zEj5HoP-zWUD1onq02cAB9oJhFccEA@mail.gmail.com>

I paid off the postal service for a stamp, so that I could cast my vote for:

Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer

Personally, I am not opposed to receiving email, snail-mail, or any
other kind of information from candidates.  With so much junk-mail
coming in, it's nice to receive something that I Want to read.  Being
able to cross-reference public datasets to contact individuals is just
life...

Cheers,
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 10:59 AM John Brier via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
> Also, when others last year did the same thing it was referred to as
> "buying the election."
>
> 73, John Brier KG4AKV
>
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 10:03 Steve Nordahl via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> wrote:
>
> > I wonder why some members have a major problem getting unsolicited emails
> > possibly obtained from QRZ or other from a prospective candidate(s), but
> > don't blow up when another group representing incumbents use QRZ or other
> > to get addresses to send out unsolicited preprinted mail?
> >
> > Steve NS3L
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

From k8bl at ameritech.net  Fri Jul 31 16:18:18 2020
From: k8bl at ameritech.net (Bob Liddy (K8BL))
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 16:18:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [amsat-bb] BBS Going Back To SPAM
References: <1068095052.10111605.1596212298804.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1068095052.10111605.1596212298804@mail.yahoo.com>

Just when I hoped things had settled down on the AMSAT-BB and
it was safe to begin reading about Amateur Satellites and Operations
again, things started to go back to "other stuff".? So, it's going BACK
to SPAM again and I'll check back in a couple weeks. GEEESH!!

73,? ? Bob? K8BL? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? (AMSAT #6593, since 1979)

From ve3oat at storm.ca  Fri Jul 31 15:33:14 2020
From: ve3oat at storm.ca (Martin VE3OAT)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 11:33:14 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Critical Election
Message-ID: <627dc4e4-f0a0-3bb9-f43e-9673ab14611e@storm.ca>

Ray Soifer wrote :

"I am not endorsing any candidate, nor do I think my endorsement would 
matter anyway."

To the contrary, Ray, I suspect that I am not the only one on the 
fringes who would appreciate knowing who you would endorse in this 
election.

... Martin Potter?? VE3OAT



From ve3hls at gmail.com  Fri Jul 31 16:36:34 2020
From: ve3hls at gmail.com (Kenneth P Alexander)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 23:36:34 +0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] BBS Going Back To SPAM
In-Reply-To: <1068095052.10111605.1596212298804@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1068095052.10111605.1596212298804.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1068095052.10111605.1596212298804@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAPOM0dkJTC6XOUMBg+v_4fd7fXFadVx9FQCsBbDB5ixj3xTw=g@mail.gmail.com>

Democracy in action Bob.  Check back after the election.

Ken Alexander, VE3HLS
So Phisai, Thailand
Blog:  bueng-ken.com


On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 11:26 PM Bob Liddy (K8BL) via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Just when I hoped things had settled down on the AMSAT-BB and
> it was safe to begin reading about Amateur Satellites and Operations
> again, things started to go back to "other stuff".  So, it's going BACK
> to SPAM again and I'll check back in a couple weeks. GEEESH!!
>
> 73,    Bob  K8BL                            (AMSAT #6593, since 1979)
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From jean.marc.momple at gmail.com  Fri Jul 31 17:10:26 2020
From: jean.marc.momple at gmail.com (Jean Marc Momple)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:10:26 +0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Critical Election
In-Reply-To: <627dc4e4-f0a0-3bb9-f43e-9673ab14611e@storm.ca>
References: <627dc4e4-f0a0-3bb9-f43e-9673ab14611e@storm.ca>
Message-ID: <2CEDB73A-3BDD-4F4B-A9B3-64A780656240@gmail.com>

Martin,

I tend to disagree with you if I understood well your mail.

Not voting are not taking a stand will mean that one doing so is just disengaging, therefore cannot complain in the future about doings of the elected members. I believe that all members of an association (or country actually) not exercising their right of vote are not exercising their basic right in a democratic regime. Just an opinion, so many regimes around the world do not care about democracy and if we can or be lucky enough we should choose our leaders to represent us (if case they fail in a democracy we can fire them at next one).

In any case we have the leaders we deserve (good or bad) as a community in a democracy by our own choice, voting or not.

My one cent input.

73



Jean Marc (3B8DU)

> On Jul 31, 2020, at 7:33 PM, Martin VE3OAT via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> Ray Soifer wrote :
> 
> "I am not endorsing any candidate, nor do I think my endorsement would matter anyway."
> 
> To the contrary, Ray, I suspect that I am not the only one on the fringes who would appreciate knowing who you would endorse in this election.
> 
> ... Martin Potter   VE3OAT
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


From ve3oat at storm.ca  Fri Jul 31 17:43:35 2020
From: ve3oat at storm.ca (Martin VE3OAT)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 13:43:35 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Critical Election
In-Reply-To: <2CEDB73A-3BDD-4F4B-A9B3-64A780656240@gmail.com>
References: <627dc4e4-f0a0-3bb9-f43e-9673ab14611e@storm.ca>
	<2CEDB73A-3BDD-4F4B-A9B3-64A780656240@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b47e5320-e1ea-7535-c274-381d3ec0dc42@storm.ca>

Hi, Jean Marc,

I think you misunderstood what I wrote or what I intended (which was 
perhaps not very clear).

I feel strongly about democracy and do intend to vote in this 
election, but am still confused.  I have followed most of the debate 
here, reading the accusations (some of which were serious), the 
justifications (a few of which seemed quite logical), the complaints, 
the excuses, and the murmurings of discontent.  I can see the need for 
change.  But being a new member of AMSAT-NA and not knowing any of the 
candidates or the history of the organization, I am still confused.

I know Ray Soifer from many years ago (IARU) and would trust his 
judgement and any guidance that he might offer.  So, I was asking him 
to tell us, if he is agreeable, who he would vote for.

73,
... Martin   VE3OAT


On 2020-07-31 1:10 p.m., Jean Marc Momple wrote:
> Martin,
> 
> I tend to disagree with you if I understood well your mail.
> 
> Not voting are not taking a stand will mean that one doing so is just disengaging, therefore cannot complain in the future about doings of the elected members. I believe that all members of an association (or country actually) not exercising their right of vote are not exercising their basic right in a democratic regime. Just an opinion, so many regimes around the world do not care about democracy and if we can or be lucky enough we should choose our leaders to represent us (if case they fail in a democracy we can fire them at next one).
> 
> In any case we have the leaders we deserve (good or bad) as a community in a democracy by our own choice, voting or not.
> 
> My one cent input.
> 
> 73
> 
> 
> 
> Jean Marc (3B8DU)
> 
>> On Jul 31, 2020, at 7:33 PM, Martin VE3OAT via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>> Ray Soifer wrote :
>>
>> "I am not endorsing any candidate, nor do I think my endorsement would matter anyway."
>>
>> To the contrary, Ray, I suspect that I am not the only one on the fringes who would appreciate knowing who you would endorse in this election.
>>
>> ... Martin Potter   VE3OAT
>>
>>
> 
> 

From cq.kg6o at gmail.com  Fri Jul 31 17:57:40 2020
From: cq.kg6o at gmail.com (Chris Hoffman)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 10:57:40 -0700
Subject: [amsat-bb] GS-232B Advice?
Message-ID: <CANPmdb0dHY==tSxeUf5NBCURSarh+MqMgogmW-5c1OrKiWYtnA@mail.gmail.com>

Happy Birthday to me: I now own a G-5500 and it's controller! Now... I need
the computer interface.

As opposed to paying the $ for an authentic GS-232B, I see the following
item come up a lot in my EBay feed, and I'm left to wonder if it is worth
trying:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rotator-Control-Interface-Board-with-Cable-USB-232B-for-YAESU-G-800-1000-2800DXA/124009089208?hash=item1cdf8488b8:g:a0YAAOSw-c9d8wtl

That, or I spring for a Green Heron, right?

What do you think? What other options should I consider?

/ch
N6QR

From k0jm.mark at gmail.com  Fri Jul 31 18:17:47 2020
From: k0jm.mark at gmail.com (Mark Johns, K0JM)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 13:17:47 -0500
Subject: [amsat-bb] GS-232B Advice?
In-Reply-To: <CANPmdb0dHY==tSxeUf5NBCURSarh+MqMgogmW-5c1OrKiWYtnA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANPmdb0dHY==tSxeUf5NBCURSarh+MqMgogmW-5c1OrKiWYtnA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADDbS5CY4FcYX=HAh4pB4CABax4zaEHNPo5TuzC4LLMzoNm_YA@mail.gmail.com>

Consider building your own. It's a fun project and much, much cheaper:

https://blog.radioartisan.com/yaesu-rotator-computer-serial-interface/
--
Mark D. Johns, K?JM
AMSAT Ambassador & News Service Editor
Brooklyn Park, MN USA   EN35hd
-----------------------------------------------
"Heaven goes by favor; if it went by merit,
   you would stay out and your dog would go in."
    ---Mark Twain


On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 1:10 PM Chris Hoffman via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> Happy Birthday to me: I now own a G-5500 and it's controller! Now... I need
> the computer interface.
>
> As opposed to paying the $ for an authentic GS-232B, I see the following
> item come up a lot in my EBay feed, and I'm left to wonder if it is worth
> trying:
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rotator-Control-Interface-Board-with-Cable-USB-232B-for-YAESU-G-800-1000-2800DXA/124009089208?hash=item1cdf8488b8:g:a0YAAOSw-c9d8wtl
>
> That, or I spring for a Green Heron, right?
>
> What do you think? What other options should I consider?
>
> /ch
> N6QR
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>

From jim at k6ccc.org  Fri Jul 31 18:18:21 2020
From: jim at k6ccc.org (jim at k6ccc.org)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 11:18:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [amsat-bb] =?utf-8?q?GS-232B_Advice=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <CANPmdb0dHY==tSxeUf5NBCURSarh+MqMgogmW-5c1OrKiWYtnA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANPmdb0dHY==tSxeUf5NBCURSarh+MqMgogmW-5c1OrKiWYtnA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1596219501.080920059@apps.rackspace.com>

Chris,
Happy birthday.
You might want to look at the FoxDelta ST2.
http://www.foxdelta.com/products/st2-0417.htm

Jim Walls - K6CCC



-----Original Message-----
From: "Chris Hoffman via AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 10:57
To: "AMSAT BB" <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] GS-232B Advice?

Happy Birthday to me: I now own a G-5500 and it's controller! Now... I need
the computer interface.

As opposed to paying the $ for an authentic GS-232B, I see the following
item come up a lot in my EBay feed, and I'm left to wonder if it is worth
trying:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rotator-Control-Interface-Board-with-Cable-USB-232B-for-YAESU-G-800-1000-2800DXA/124009089208?hash=item1cdf8488b8:g:a0YAAOSw-c9d8wtl

That, or I spring for a Green Heron, right?

What do you think? What other options should I consider?

/ch
N6QR
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb



From e.krome at comcast.net  Fri Jul 31 18:41:18 2020
From: e.krome at comcast.net (Ed Krome)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 14:41:18 -0400
Subject: [amsat-bb] GS-232B Advice?
In-Reply-To: <CANPmdb0dHY==tSxeUf5NBCURSarh+MqMgogmW-5c1OrKiWYtnA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANPmdb0dHY==tSxeUf5NBCURSarh+MqMgogmW-5c1OrKiWYtnA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E69AC2B2-3A42-4561-8CA1-8E1452F27296@comcast.net>

LVB  Tracker kit from AMSAT-UK or FoxDelta ST2. Both work great. 

Ed Krome K9EK

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 31, 2020, at 2:13 PM, Chris Hoffman via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> ?Happy Birthday to me: I now own a G-5500 and it's controller! Now... I need
> the computer interface.
> 
> As opposed to paying the $ for an authentic GS-232B, I see the following
> item come up a lot in my EBay feed, and I'm left to wonder if it is worth
> trying:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rotator-Control-Interface-Board-with-Cable-USB-232B-for-YAESU-G-800-1000-2800DXA/124009089208?hash=item1cdf8488b8:g:a0YAAOSw-c9d8wtl
> 
> That, or I spring for a Green Heron, right?
> 
> What do you think? What other options should I consider?
> 
> /ch
> N6QR
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb