[amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list

Bruce Perens bruce at perens.com
Mon Jul 13 19:45:19 UTC 2020 

David,

My tweet was NOT deleted, and is still on twitter at
https://twitter.com/BrucePerens/status/1154844208458416128
As stated repeatedly, both by myself and Michelle, I did not handle the
mailing list, she did. Which was 100% her right as a candidate.

    Thanks

    Bruce

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 11:26 AM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> It's always fun to remind folks tripping over their own feat lying that the
> internet is forever. From a Bruce Perens Tweet on July 13, 2020:
>
> "Please see my letter on the web, or the paper copy I've mailed to everyone
> one of you".
>
> Of course the original tweet was deleted, but the wayback machine never
> forgets. Don't Believe me? http://druidnetworks.com/2020-07-13.png
>
> If you still think the membership list wasn't compromised, I just heard
> Director Thompson will be auctioning off their ocean front property in
> Arizona to all the members this year to raise funds for their microwave,
> digital only, strictly open source crowd funded, vegan, social justice
> aware cubesat launch to Proxima Centauri. Of course this launch will only
> come after 10 years of ground station development, but fueled with enough
> hopes, dreams and promises it will become a reality!
>
> For the rest of us who actually want to keep amateur radio in (real) space
> and are disgusted at the violations of privacy that occured by 3rd parties
> working to get Director Thompson and Director Stoddard elected, well, you
> should know what to do.
>
> -Dave, KG5CCI
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:24 AM Michelle Thompson <
> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > No database went anywhere except to candidates. This is allowed in the
> > bylaws.
> >
> > Then, an automated bulk mail printing server was used. I recommended the
> > company to Brennan Price for this year's mailing. Good service,
> > inexpensive.
> >
> > Return addresses don't magically transfer information.
> >
> > -Michelle W5NYV
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 04:32 David Swanson <dave at druidnetworks.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Spin Spin Spin. The simple truth here is Director Thompson took the
> AMSAT
> >> member database, and handed it over to a 3rd party competing entity for
> the
> >> purpose of solicitation. I know I did not give ORI my home address, yet
> ORI
> >> sent me a letter. This was a violation of my privacy, and for AMSAT
> >> members living in the EU, this was a violation of the law. Any attempt
> to
> >> explain this away is just more lies and deceit from Director Thompson
> about
> >> the shady practices they have engaged in over the past few years. As I
> keep
> >> saying, this isn't a one time thing, this is a pattern of
> >> reprehensible behavior that is unbecoming of an elected position and
> this
> >> community. Director Thompson and Director Stoddard should resign.
> >>
> >> -Dave, KG5CCI
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:33 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
> >> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Yes, I can.
> >>>
> >>> That part of Clayton's letter is wrong and has been repeatedly
> clarified
> >>> before. Including at the 2019 annual board meeting, where Tom Clark
> asked
> >>> me about it, as part of the record.
> >>>
> >>> Clayton Coleman was secretary in 2019.
> >>>
> >>> He ran the election.
> >>>
> >>> He decided that candidate statements were limited in length to 350
> words,
> >>> would be subject to editorial control by AMSAT, and could not include
> >>> links. These new rules were given to us right before the 4th of July
> >>> holiday with a deadline of the 7th.
> >>>
> >>> This is different than any election before, where statements went
> >>> directly
> >>> to the printer from the candidate, were not limited in length, and no
> one
> >>> from AMSAT leadership (who might be running for reelection themselves)
> >>> had
> >>> any control over the content of their challengers' statements.
> >>>
> >>> We got these rules right before ballots went out. We (four challengers)
> >>> already had normal-sized statements on the web and they had been up six
> >>> weeks at that point. Those were the ones we wanted to use, and link to.
> >>>
> >>> We knew that as candidates, we had the right to request the mailing
> list,
> >>> and send our own statements, independent of the ballot.
> >>>
> >>> I requested the address list and got the DBASE4 export.
> >>>
> >>> Bruce Perens had already written a letter of support and distributed it
> >>> widely on the web. It introduced us and included our four full bios and
> >>> statements.
> >>>
> >>> I asked Bruce if we could use his letter in the mailing. He said yes.
> >>> Since
> >>> he was President of Open Research Institute at the time, he wanted the
> >>> return address to not be his private home address, but a business
> >>> address.
> >>> That was ORI's address. He was the author of the endorsement, so I used
> >>> his
> >>> preferred return address.
> >>>
> >>> I converted the DBASE4 to a more useful format, fixed the 50 or so
> >>> undeliverable addresses, and found an inexpensive printer. Then I sent
> >>> the
> >>> letter from Bruce to the printer, with the bios and statements.
> >>>
> >>> That turned out to be a good thing. Bios and statements were not
> included
> >>> with the ballots mailed out, at all.
> >>>
> >>> If we had not sent the letter, then name recognition would be the
> primary
> >>> factor. We were running against well-known people.
> >>>
> >>> We complained about this. It was unusual departure from the past and
> >>> seemed
> >>> set up to let leadership benefit from being incumbents.
> >>>
> >>> The original proposal from Clayton was for an electronic only ballot.
> >>> Patrick said that the bylaws were a bit clunky here and it did need to
> be
> >>> mailed out on paper. Paper was required.
> >>>
> >>> This is a big reason why I made a motion at our one  board meeting, in
> >>> March, for a bylaws committee.
> >>>
> >>> This bylaw isn't hard to fix. There's lots of examples out there of
> >>> organizations doing electronic voting with working published bylaws.
> >>>
> >>> Bruce made it very clear, when the incumbents stirred up the pot about
> >>> the
> >>> return address, that it was an endorsement from him, this was commonly
> >>> done
> >>> in political campaigns, and it would be grossly improper for me to use
> >>> AMSATs return address because that would make it look like Bruce was
> >>> speaking for or was from AMSAT. That was not going to happen. *That*
> >>> would
> >>> be improper.
> >>>
> >>> No one candidate wanted their personal address used as a return
> address.
> >>> We
> >>> were mailing this as a slate and splitting the cost. We didn't have
> time
> >>> or
> >>> funds to make an organization or rent a box for one letter on short
> >>> notice.
> >>> The printer required a real return address.
> >>>
> >>> No one had the address list except the candidates. Namely me because I
> >>> contracted the printer and handled the DBASE4 address conversion. That
> >>> is a
> >>> neat story in and of itself,, for another time.
> >>>
> >>> Bruce only sent the text to me and chipped in some money for postage.
> >>>
> >>> The printing was automated in Van Nuys, CA.
> >>>
> >>> All of this is known to Clayton Coleman and his friends on the board
> that
> >>> signed the statement from this week. It has been explained by Bruce
> >>> publicly, and by me several times on social media. Tom Clark brought it
> >>> up
> >>> at the 2019 annual board meeting because of the return address
> >>> pot-stirring. I explained it there too. Like I said, it's on the
> record.
> >>>
> >>> I think insinuating the addresses were mishandled is a deliberate
> >>> twisting
> >>> of honest efforts to scramble to get uncensored candidate statements
> out
> >>> to
> >>> voters on short notice. We just didn't have a lot of time, and Bruce
> was
> >>> very generous in writing a cover letter.
> >>>
> >>> Again, candidates are allowed the use of the mailing lists for election
> >>> purposes.
> >>>
> >>> So, no, there was no breach. Clayton knows all this.
> >>>
> >>> Saying it the way he did is a cheap shot at me, Patrick, Bruce Perens,
> >>> and
> >>> ORI.
> >>>
> >>>  -Michelle W5NYV
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 19:11 Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >   Hello All,
> >>> >
> >>> >    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we
> all
> >>> > received as members.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
> >>> >
> >>> > I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed
> >>> before.
> >>> >
> >>> > "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to
> >>> > Open Research Institute."
> >>> >
> >>> >     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a
> >>> serious
> >>> > breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?
> >>> > was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they
> say
> >>> > "out in the wind"?
> >>> >
> >>> > Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack how
> >>> > ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something
> >>> > that was procured online?
> >>> >
> >>> > AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what
> it
> >>> > found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening in
> >>> > the future.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > I look forward to an answer
> >>> >
> >>> > 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> >>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >>> Opinions
> >>> > expressed
> >>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> >>> of
> >>> > AMSAT-NA.
> >>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >>> program!
> >>> > Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>> >
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >>> Opinions expressed
> >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> >>> AMSAT-NA.
> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >>> program!
> >>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>>
> >>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)

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