[amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list

Mon Jul 13 20:13:20 UTC 2020

OK, Dave, you were not born yesterday :-) As I have said, I never touched
the mailing list, and never had to. I contributed $500 for postage, the
rest was provided by the candidates. But if I *had* touched the mailing
list, what nefarious things would I have done with it? You are mostly all
listed on QRZ, etc. Am I the guy sending you those mails about how Ed
McMahon will hand you the million-dollar check from Publishers Clearing
House?

What I am getting at here is that people don't violate rules for really
stupid and unnecessary reasons. There was a simple way to send the letter
within the rules, and we did it.

Thanks

Bruce

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 12:55 PM David Swanson <dave at druidnetworks.com> wrote:

> My apologies on the Twitter claim - when I tried loading it from source
> nothing was displaying pre January 28th, 2020 - the day of your 'I am
> signing off of social networking' declaration. (How'd that go btw?) I only
> assumed you had deleted your tweets.
>
> As to your never ending story changing about the mailing list, I was born
> at night, but it wasn't last night. Go try your story on another mark.
>
> -Dave, KG5CCI
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 2:45 PM Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>
>> David,
>>
>> My tweet was NOT deleted, and is still on twitter at
>> https://twitter.com/BrucePerens/status/1154844208458416128
>> As stated repeatedly, both by myself and Michelle, I did not handle the
>> mailing list, she did. Which was 100% her right as a candidate.
>>
>>     Thanks
>>
>>     Bruce
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 11:26 AM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>
>>> It's always fun to remind folks tripping over their own feat lying that
>>> the
>>> internet is forever. From a Bruce Perens Tweet on July 13, 2020:
>>>
>>> "Please see my letter on the web, or the paper copy I've mailed to
>>> everyone
>>> one of you".
>>>
>>> Of course the original tweet was deleted, but the wayback machine never
>>> forgets. Don't Believe me? http://druidnetworks.com/2020-07-13.png
>>>
>>> If you still think the membership list wasn't compromised, I just heard
>>> Director Thompson will be auctioning off their ocean front property in
>>> Arizona to all the members this year to raise funds for their microwave,
>>> digital only, strictly open source crowd funded, vegan, social justice
>>> aware cubesat launch to Proxima Centauri. Of course this launch will only
>>> come after 10 years of ground station development, but fueled with enough
>>> hopes, dreams and promises it will become a reality!
>>>
>>> For the rest of us who actually want to keep amateur radio in (real)
>>> space
>>> and are disgusted at the violations of privacy that occured by 3rd
>>> parties
>>> working to get Director Thompson and Director Stoddard elected, well, you
>>> should know what to do.
>>>
>>> -Dave, KG5CCI
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:24 AM Michelle Thompson <
>>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > No database went anywhere except to candidates. This is allowed in the
>>> > bylaws.
>>> >
>>> > Then, an automated bulk mail printing server was used. I recommended
>>> the
>>> > company to Brennan Price for this year's mailing. Good service,
>>> > inexpensive.
>>> >
>>> > Return addresses don't magically transfer information.
>>> >
>>> > -Michelle W5NYV
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 04:32 David Swanson <dave at druidnetworks.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Spin Spin Spin. The simple truth here is Director Thompson took the
>>> AMSAT
>>> >> member database, and handed it over to a 3rd party competing entity
>>> for the
>>> >> purpose of solicitation. I know I did not give ORI my home address,
>>> yet ORI
>>> >> sent me a letter. This was a violation of my privacy, and for AMSAT
>>> >> members living in the EU, this was a violation of the law. Any
>>> attempt to
>>> >> explain this away is just more lies and deceit from Director Thompson
>>> about
>>> >> the shady practices they have engaged in over the past few years. As
>>> I keep
>>> >> saying, this isn't a one time thing, this is a pattern of
>>> >> reprehensible behavior that is unbecoming of an elected position and
>>> this
>>> >> community. Director Thompson and Director Stoddard should resign.
>>> >>
>>> >> -Dave, KG5CCI
>>> >>
>>> >> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:33 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>>> >> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Yes, I can.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> That part of Clayton's letter is wrong and has been repeatedly
>>> clarified
>>> >>> before. Including at the 2019 annual board meeting, where Tom Clark
>>> asked
>>> >>> me about it, as part of the record.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Clayton Coleman was secretary in 2019.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> He ran the election.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> He decided that candidate statements were limited in length to 350
>>> words,
>>> >>> would be subject to editorial control by AMSAT, and could not include
>>> >>> links. These new rules were given to us right before the 4th of July
>>> >>> holiday with a deadline of the 7th.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> This is different than any election before, where statements went
>>> >>> directly
>>> >>> to the printer from the candidate, were not limited in length, and
>>> no one
>>> >>> from AMSAT leadership (who might be running for reelection
>>> themselves)
>>> >>> had
>>> >>> any control over the content of their challengers' statements.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> We got these rules right before ballots went out. We (four
>>> challengers)
>>> >>> already had normal-sized statements on the web and they had been up
>>> six
>>> >>> weeks at that point. Those were the ones we wanted to use, and link
>>> to.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> We knew that as candidates, we had the right to request the mailing
>>> list,
>>> >>> and send our own statements, independent of the ballot.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I requested the address list and got the DBASE4 export.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Bruce Perens had already written a letter of support and distributed
>>> it
>>> >>> widely on the web. It introduced us and included our four full bios
>>> and
>>> >>> statements.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I asked Bruce if we could use his letter in the mailing. He said yes.
>>> >>> Since
>>> >>> he was President of Open Research Institute at the time, he wanted
>>> the
>>> >>> return address to not be his private home address, but a business
>>> >>> address.
>>> >>> That was ORI's address. He was the author of the endorsement, so I
>>> used
>>> >>> his
>>> >>> preferred return address.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I converted the DBASE4 to a more useful format, fixed the 50 or so
>>> >>> undeliverable addresses, and found an inexpensive printer. Then I
>>> sent
>>> >>> the
>>> >>> letter from Bruce to the printer, with the bios and statements.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> That turned out to be a good thing. Bios and statements were not
>>> included
>>> >>> with the ballots mailed out, at all.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> If we had not sent the letter, then name recognition would be the
>>> primary
>>> >>> factor. We were running against well-known people.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> We complained about this. It was unusual departure from the past and
>>> >>> seemed
>>> >>> set up to let leadership benefit from being incumbents.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The original proposal from Clayton was for an electronic only ballot.
>>> >>> Patrick said that the bylaws were a bit clunky here and it did need
>>> to be
>>> >>> mailed out on paper. Paper was required.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> This is a big reason why I made a motion at our one  board meeting,
>>> in
>>> >>> March, for a bylaws committee.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> This bylaw isn't hard to fix. There's lots of examples out there of
>>> >>> organizations doing electronic voting with working published bylaws.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Bruce made it very clear, when the incumbents stirred up the pot
>>> about
>>> >>> the
>>> >>> return address, that it was an endorsement from him, this was
>>> commonly
>>> >>> done
>>> >>> in political campaigns, and it would be grossly improper for me to
>>> use
>>> >>> AMSATs return address because that would make it look like Bruce was
>>> >>> speaking for or was from AMSAT. That was not going to happen. *That*
>>> >>> would
>>> >>> be improper.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> No one candidate wanted their personal address used as a return
>>> address.
>>> >>> We
>>> >>> were mailing this as a slate and splitting the cost. We didn't have
>>> time
>>> >>> or
>>> >>> funds to make an organization or rent a box for one letter on short
>>> >>> notice.
>>> >>> The printer required a real return address.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> No one had the address list except the candidates. Namely me because
>>> I
>>> >>> contracted the printer and handled the DBASE4 address conversion.
>>> That
>>> >>> is a
>>> >>> neat story in and of itself,, for another time.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Bruce only sent the text to me and chipped in some money for postage.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The printing was automated in Van Nuys, CA.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> All of this is known to Clayton Coleman and his friends on the board
>>> that
>>> >>> signed the statement from this week. It has been explained by Bruce
>>> >>> publicly, and by me several times on social media. Tom Clark brought
>>> it
>>> >>> up
>>> >>> at the 2019 annual board meeting because of the return address
>>> >>> pot-stirring. I explained it there too. Like I said, it's on the
>>> record.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I think insinuating the addresses were mishandled is a deliberate
>>> >>> twisting
>>> >>> of honest efforts to scramble to get uncensored candidate statements
>>> out
>>> >>> to
>>> >>> voters on short notice. We just didn't have a lot of time, and Bruce
>>> was
>>> >>> very generous in writing a cover letter.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Again, candidates are allowed the use of the mailing lists for
>>> election
>>> >>> purposes.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> So, no, there was no breach. Clayton knows all this.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Saying it the way he did is a cheap shot at me, Patrick, Bruce
>>> Perens,
>>> >>> and
>>> >>> ORI.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>  -Michelle W5NYV
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 19:11 Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> >   Hello All,
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter
>>> we all
>>> >>> > received as members.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>>
>>> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed
>>> >>> before.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses
>>> to
>>> >>> > Open Research Institute."
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a
>>> >>> serious
>>> >>> > breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information
>>> lost?
>>> >>> > was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they
>>> say
>>> >>> > "out in the wind"?
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack
>>> how
>>> >>> > ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it
>>> something
>>> >>> > that was procured online?
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back
>>> what it
>>> >>> > found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening
>>> in
>>> >>> > the future.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > I look forward to an answer
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>>> >>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>> available
>>> >>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> >>> Opinions
>>> >>> > expressed
>>> >>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>> views
>>> >>> of
>>> >>> > AMSAT-NA.
>>> >>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> >>> program!
>>> >>> > Subscription settings:
>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>> available
>>> >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> >>> Opinions expressed
>>> >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>> views of
>>> >>> AMSAT-NA.
>>> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> >>> program!
>>> >>> Subscription settings:
>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
>> eventually :-)
>>
>