[amsat-bb] Mr David Swanson.....

Mon Jul 13 21:52:55 UTC 2020

Mr Wagener,

People have threatened my friends and members of my community with legal
action, they defamed them, and impugned their integrity. They seek to
destroy a hobby I care a great deal about. The fact that you don't see
what's going on is the embarrassment, not the words I use.

In short, you can go to hell.

-Dave, KG5CCI

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 4:33 PM Stefan Wagener <wageners at gmail.com> wrote:

> Mr David Swanson,
>
> Your vicious, sarcastic, and personal attacks against a duly elected board
> member and more importantly another human being are totally uncalled
> for and a total embarrassment to yourself.
>
> STOP IT!
>
> Stefan VE4SW
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 2:28 PM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>
>> It's always fun to remind folks tripping over their own feat lying that
>> the
>> internet is forever. From a Bruce Perens Tweet on July 13, 2020:
>>
>> "Please see my letter on the web, or the paper copy I've mailed to
>> everyone
>> one of you".
>>
>> Of course the original tweet was deleted, but the wayback machine never
>> forgets. Don't Believe me? http://druidnetworks.com/2020-07-13.png
>>
>> If you still think the membership list wasn't compromised, I just heard
>> Director Thompson will be auctioning off their ocean front property in
>> Arizona to all the members this year to raise funds for their microwave,
>> digital only, strictly open source crowd funded, vegan, social justice
>> aware cubesat launch to Proxima Centauri. Of course this launch will only
>> come after 10 years of ground station development, but fueled with enough
>> hopes, dreams and promises it will become a reality!
>>
>> For the rest of us who actually want to keep amateur radio in (real) space
>> and are disgusted at the violations of privacy that occured by 3rd parties
>> working to get Director Thompson and Director Stoddard elected, well, you
>> should know what to do.
>>
>> -Dave, KG5CCI
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:24 AM Michelle Thompson <
>> mountain.michelle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > No database went anywhere except to candidates. This is allowed in the
>> > bylaws.
>> >
>> > Then, an automated bulk mail printing server was used. I recommended the
>> > company to Brennan Price for this year's mailing. Good service,
>> > inexpensive.
>> >
>> > Return addresses don't magically transfer information.
>> >
>> > -Michelle W5NYV
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 04:32 David Swanson <dave at druidnetworks.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Spin Spin Spin. The simple truth here is Director Thompson took the
>> AMSAT
>> >> member database, and handed it over to a 3rd party competing entity
>> for the
>> >> purpose of solicitation. I know I did not give ORI my home address,
>> yet ORI
>> >> sent me a letter. This was a violation of my privacy, and for AMSAT
>> >> members living in the EU, this was a violation of the law. Any attempt
>> to
>> >> explain this away is just more lies and deceit from Director Thompson
>> about
>> >> the shady practices they have engaged in over the past few years. As I
>> keep
>> >> saying, this isn't a one time thing, this is a pattern of
>> >> reprehensible behavior that is unbecoming of an elected position and
>> this
>> >> community. Director Thompson and Director Stoddard should resign.
>> >>
>> >> -Dave, KG5CCI
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:33 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>> >> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Yes, I can.
>> >>>
>> >>> That part of Clayton's letter is wrong and has been repeatedly
>> clarified
>> >>> before. Including at the 2019 annual board meeting, where Tom Clark
>> asked
>> >>> me about it, as part of the record.
>> >>>
>> >>> Clayton Coleman was secretary in 2019.
>> >>>
>> >>> He ran the election.
>> >>>
>> >>> He decided that candidate statements were limited in length to 350
>> words,
>> >>> would be subject to editorial control by AMSAT, and could not include
>> >>> links. These new rules were given to us right before the 4th of July
>> >>> holiday with a deadline of the 7th.
>> >>>
>> >>> This is different than any election before, where statements went
>> >>> directly
>> >>> to the printer from the candidate, were not limited in length, and no
>> one
>> >>> from AMSAT leadership (who might be running for reelection themselves)
>> >>> had
>> >>> any control over the content of their challengers' statements.
>> >>>
>> >>> We got these rules right before ballots went out. We (four
>> challengers)
>> >>> already had normal-sized statements on the web and they had been up
>> six
>> >>> weeks at that point. Those were the ones we wanted to use, and link
>> to.
>> >>>
>> >>> We knew that as candidates, we had the right to request the mailing
>> list,
>> >>> and send our own statements, independent of the ballot.
>> >>>
>> >>> I requested the address list and got the DBASE4 export.
>> >>>
>> >>> Bruce Perens had already written a letter of support and distributed
>> it
>> >>> widely on the web. It introduced us and included our four full bios
>> and
>> >>> statements.
>> >>>
>> >>> I asked Bruce if we could use his letter in the mailing. He said yes.
>> >>> Since
>> >>> he was President of Open Research Institute at the time, he wanted the
>> >>> return address to not be his private home address, but a business
>> >>> address.
>> >>> That was ORI's address. He was the author of the endorsement, so I
>> used
>> >>> his
>> >>> preferred return address.
>> >>>
>> >>> I converted the DBASE4 to a more useful format, fixed the 50 or so
>> >>> undeliverable addresses, and found an inexpensive printer. Then I sent
>> >>> the
>> >>> letter from Bruce to the printer, with the bios and statements.
>> >>>
>> >>> That turned out to be a good thing. Bios and statements were not
>> included
>> >>> with the ballots mailed out, at all.
>> >>>
>> >>> If we had not sent the letter, then name recognition would be the
>> primary
>> >>> factor. We were running against well-known people.
>> >>>
>> >>> We complained about this. It was unusual departure from the past and
>> >>> seemed
>> >>> set up to let leadership benefit from being incumbents.
>> >>>
>> >>> The original proposal from Clayton was for an electronic only ballot.
>> >>> Patrick said that the bylaws were a bit clunky here and it did need
>> to be
>> >>> mailed out on paper. Paper was required.
>> >>>
>> >>> This is a big reason why I made a motion at our one  board meeting, in
>> >>> March, for a bylaws committee.
>> >>>
>> >>> This bylaw isn't hard to fix. There's lots of examples out there of
>> >>> organizations doing electronic voting with working published bylaws.
>> >>>
>> >>> Bruce made it very clear, when the incumbents stirred up the pot about
>> >>> the
>> >>> return address, that it was an endorsement from him, this was commonly
>> >>> done
>> >>> in political campaigns, and it would be grossly improper for me to use
>> >>> AMSATs return address because that would make it look like Bruce was
>> >>> speaking for or was from AMSAT. That was not going to happen. *That*
>> >>> would
>> >>> be improper.
>> >>>
>> >>> No one candidate wanted their personal address used as a return
>> address.
>> >>> We
>> >>> were mailing this as a slate and splitting the cost. We didn't have
>> time
>> >>> or
>> >>> funds to make an organization or rent a box for one letter on short
>> >>> notice.
>> >>> The printer required a real return address.
>> >>>
>> >>> No one had the address list except the candidates. Namely me because I
>> >>> contracted the printer and handled the DBASE4 address conversion. That
>> >>> is a
>> >>> neat story in and of itself,, for another time.
>> >>>
>> >>> Bruce only sent the text to me and chipped in some money for postage.
>> >>>
>> >>> The printing was automated in Van Nuys, CA.
>> >>>
>> >>> All of this is known to Clayton Coleman and his friends on the board
>> that
>> >>> signed the statement from this week. It has been explained by Bruce
>> >>> publicly, and by me several times on social media. Tom Clark brought
>> it
>> >>> up
>> >>> at the 2019 annual board meeting because of the return address
>> >>> pot-stirring. I explained it there too. Like I said, it's on the
>> record.
>> >>>
>> >>> I think insinuating the addresses were mishandled is a deliberate
>> >>> twisting
>> >>> of honest efforts to scramble to get uncensored candidate statements
>> out
>> >>> to
>> >>> voters on short notice. We just didn't have a lot of time, and Bruce
>> was
>> >>> very generous in writing a cover letter.
>> >>>
>> >>> Again, candidates are allowed the use of the mailing lists for
>> election
>> >>> purposes.
>> >>>
>> >>> So, no, there was no breach. Clayton knows all this.
>> >>>
>> >>> Saying it the way he did is a cheap shot at me, Patrick, Bruce Perens,
>> >>> and
>> >>> ORI.
>> >>>
>> >>>  -Michelle W5NYV
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 19:11 Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> >   Hello All,
>> >>> >
>> >>> >    In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we
>> all
>> >>> > received as members.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed
>> >>> before.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses to
>> >>> > Open Research Institute."
>> >>> >
>> >>> >     Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a
>> >>> serious
>> >>> > breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information lost?
>> >>> > was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they
>> say
>> >>> > "out in the wind"?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack
>> how
>> >>> > ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it something
>> >>> > that was procured online?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what
>> it
>> >>> > found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening
>> in
>> >>> > the future.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I look forward to an answer
>> >>> >
>> >>> > 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>> available
>> >>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> >>> Opinions
>> >>> > expressed
>> >>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>> views
>> >>> of
>> >>> > AMSAT-NA.
>> >>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> >>> program!
>> >>> > Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >>> >
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> >>> Opinions expressed
>> >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of
>> >>> AMSAT-NA.
>> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> >>> program!
>> >>> Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >>>
>> >>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>