[amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was need HEO..please..)

Tue Jun 23 19:57:53 UTC 2020

That is exactly what AMSAT's GOLF project is designed to lead to. There are
lots of things required to be successful at such a mission: attitude
determination and control, microwave transponders for best communications
performance, and potentially propulsion and deorbit systems. For more
information, check out this page:
https://www.amsat.org/greater-orbit-larger-footprint-an-introduction-to-the-amsat-golf-program/

73,

Paul Stoetzer, N8HM
Executive Vice President
AMSAT

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 3:51 PM Bill Gaylord via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:

> What about putting a larger Cubesat (multiple U) into a highly elliptical
> orbit?
>
> > On Jun 23, 2020, at 2:42 PM, Matthias Bopp via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Jean Marc,
> >
> > If remember right, Sigi DG9BFC and Sandor DM4DS were the first who
> modified the Pluto using a better TCXO and for sure they helped a lot of
> other HAMs to get it done or even did the modification for them.
> >
> > Simon not only enabled us to use SDR-Technology in a nice ready-made
> software package but also added satellite tracking capabilities to his
> software. And for sure Mike, Daniel, Andrej and several
> > others are providing a great service to our Ham Radio Community with
> their software and by sharing their experience. It is all about learning
> from each other as life is too short to do all on our own.
> >
> > The Cubesat frame structure, quite some components and even the
> deployment systems have been successfully standardized and thus it got much
> easier to build and get them launched.
> > Still each successful deployment of them is a remarkable accomplishment
> by the teams behind.
> >
> > I am afraid that developing and building a HEO or GEO-payload and
> getting a launch for it is a world of difference.
> >
> > But of course, one can learn from the Cubesat projects. Standardizing
> the frame structure and the subsystems might be one of the key factors to
> make your dream true and to succeed with a constellation of such satellites.
> > I agree the chances should be much higher to accomplish this ambitious
> goal if cooperating across countries and continents. I am not so familiar
> with the international Ham Radio organizations and thus I cannot judge
> > whether IARU is a suitable organization to facilitate such an
> international effort.
> >
> > In my humble opinion the main challenge is to find an appropriate launch
> opportunity for a HEO respectively a rideshare for a GEO. For sure it is
> nowadays not easier than at the times of AO10, AO13 and AO40.
> > Also here leveraging international resources and relationships should
> help. Maybe we can find another sponsor like Es'hailSat.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Matthias
> >
> > www.dd1us.de
> >
> >
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: Jean Marc Momple <jean.marc.momple at gmail.com>
> > Gesendet: Dienstag, 23. Juni 2020 19:24
> > An: Matthias Bopp <matthias.bopp at dd1us.de>
> > Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> > Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no,
> whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
> >
> > Roger and QSL, Mathias,
> >
> > Yes, seems that the Pluto is quite popular on QO-100 particularly with
> the TXCO modification posted on the WEB (sorry to the author I do not
> remind his call and name), positive feedback received from many.
> >
> > Yes, Simon did a great job and I take this opportunity to congratulate
> him for same, his baby is being used by so many guys now that if it was a
> commercial venture he would be very rich selling it. So, I believe that all
> of us using his software, which has taken surely took a lot of effort and
> hard work, should somehow contribute and compensate him with at least a
> beer or something for his starving dog to motivate him for further
> improvement of his superb soft as most of us tend to believe that
> everything should be free of charge on the net. This also applies to many
> other HAMs devoting a lot time and hard work for the community (over years)
> such as my friends Mike (DK3WN) and Daniel (EA4GPZ) who both wrote a lot of
> TLM decoders for many birds, also Andrei (UZ7HO) for his modems which are
> great, just to mention a few (as there are many more).
> >
> > That said I really believe that if we want more birds such as HEO or GEO
> to have a truly global coverage we need to think big as a worldwide
> community and also contribute to it (each one within its own means and
> possibilities), however a common focus vision and goal across the globe is
> required to make it happens. Our leaders globally may wish to give it a
> thought) and work together a strategy/plan. I am ready do help and surely
> many others.
> >
> > I really appreciate the effort and work of all the ones doing such a
> great job of putting us in space and also wish to also congratule /thanks
> them for their hard work (some were mentioned on this topic).
> >
> > We need to think big (with unfortunately shallow pockets) but if we try
> hard we may succeed with a constellation of birds and 24 hrs coverage
> across the globe, just a dream I wish to share to all, it is possible if we
> can federate all HAM organization around the planet (may be through IARU?)
> and get support from some sponsors.
> >
> > Just thinking aloud and dreaming this side, but with no dreams we go
> nowhere...
> >
> > 73
> >
> >
> > Jean Marc (3B8DU)
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Jun 22, 2020, at 9:15 PM, Matthias Bopp <matthias.bopp at dd1us.de>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Jean Marc,
> >>
> >> It is a pity that your Minitiouner and Pluto are damaged. I hope you
> can possibly repair one or the other ...
> >>
> >> Actually, I prefer the Lime-USB for narrowband operations on QO-100.
> >>
> >> I modified the Pluto for external reference and thus it is also stable.
> Yet I use it mostly for DATV-TX.
> >>
> >> I agree that SDR-Console is a great tool for operations via QO-100 and
> the majority of the QO-100 operators are meanwhile using it.
> >> Simon has spent a lot of work on getting the Lime-SDR and Pluto-SDR
> working fine including locking the RX chain to the PSK beacon.
> >> I remember in the "hot phase" of his development which lasted about 3
> >> months several Beta-Testers including myself spent many hours in
> testing the various beta-versions from Simon.
> >>
> >> I am looking forward to talk to you again on QO-100-
> >>
> >> Kind regards
> >>
> >> Matthias
> >>
> >> www.dd1us.de
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> >> Von: Jean Marc Momple <jean.marc.momple at gmail.com>
> >> Gesendet: Montag, 22. Juni 2020 18:43
> >> An: Matthias Bopp <matthias.bopp at dd1us.de>
> >> Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> >> Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no,
> >> whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
> >>
> >> Mathias,
> >>
> >> Yes, the Minitiouner is really great for ATV, unfortunately mine is
> kaput due to an accidental short circuit cause by my dog (hi!)  and
> therefore less active on ATV these days. I need to order another one but
> waiting for commercial opening of the airways to Europe.
> >>
> >> I prefer the Lime as the Pluto drift is annoying (but manageable),
> anyway my Pluto also kaput due to same incident stated above so using the
> Lime.
> >>
> >> All these relatively cheap hardware and a computer makes it so easy and
> open such great experiments. As a matter of fact with a RTL SDR costing
> only US$24 I uploaded more than a million of Telemetry frames to various
> organisations such as Satnogs, Funcube, AMSAT (Foxtelem), Universities,
> even to Harbin for the Lunar bird, etc.
> >>
> >> Also to share, made many experiment with LNB’s for QO-100, modified
> quite a few LNB’s, tested many from the most expensive such as the
> Bullseye, Octagon, to the cheapest Chinese PLL (at US$ 3), all work fine on
> QO-100 with SDR Console (thanks to Simon Brown G4ELI) particularly with the
> GEO sync.
> >>
> >> 73
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Jean Marc (3B8DU)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>> On Jun 21, 2020, at 7:58 PM, Matthias Bopp <matthias.bopp at dd1us.de>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Jean-Marc,
> >>>
> >>> Very good point.
> >>>
> >>> Actually if you use a Pluto you can use it also with a software based
> free solution to receive the WB Transponder without additional cost.
> >>>
> >>> To receive the WB Transponder I prefer the Minitiouner kits from REF
> or BATC for about 100 Euros which is still a very cost effective solution.
> >>>
> >>> Kind regards
> >>>
> >>> Matthias
> >>>
> >>> www.dd1us.de
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Originalnachricht
> >>> Von: Jean Marc Momple
> >>> Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. Juni 2020 17:38
> >>> An: Matthias Bopp
> >>> Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> >>> Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no,
> >>> whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Dear All,
> >>>
> >>> Forgot to say a major positive about QO-100 which is the cost of
> setting up a Ground Station for narrow the band transponder, assuming that
> the PC is already available and that one use a Tx/Rx such as the Pluto or
> Lime SDR,s a few Chinese WiFi booster, a PLL LNB and a 80cm dish, the total
> cost is less than US$ 400.
> >>>
> >>> This is really attractive to students and for all Ham’s with modest
> means compared with buying any commercially available transceiver (or may
> be 2 actually)  for satellite operations, thus cost of entry in QO-100 is
> really affordable to newbies, more these guys may immediately jump in real
> Dx QSO’s and learn the trade, this surely motivate them for further
> experimentation. Particularly in remote Islands like us in that part of the
> globe.
> >>>
> >>> My 1 cent additional input to the subject.
> >>>
> >>> 73
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Jean Marc (3B8DU)
> >>>
> >>>> On Jun 20, 2020, at 6:50 PM, Jean Marc Momple <
> jean.marc.momple at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Mattias,
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for having corrected the matter which may have created wrong
> perceptions.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks to AMSAT DL, QARS and the sponsors who made such a great Radio
> Amateur bird possible, again congratulations for that.
> >>>>
> >>>> That said I wish to confirm/comment your last paragraph, as follows:
> >>>>
> >>>> In the Indian Ocean FR (mainly Reunion Island and 3B* Mauritius) we
> are only a few Hams. With HF not going through these days the hobby was
> somehow left on the side by some and QO-100 has really revived the
> activities.
> >>>>
> >>>> To share my personal case I was able to experiment microwave
> (2.4/10GHz) and modes such as ATV for the first time in my Ham life
> (licensed since 1977) as there was no-one around to be able to contact on
> these bands and modes. Now building a 3m dish experiment different types of
> feeds etc.. (some other local guys also and even students).
> >>>>
> >>>> In a nutshell a new world (or at least a half one) made available to
> us, many experimentations and learnings. I feel like again being 16 (age
> when I got my licence) as building antennas again, feeds, assembly of
> various components to build the QO-100 station.
> >>>>
> >>>> I just hope the ones not in coverage presently will get a in a Ham
> GEO coverage soon and hopefully will fully understand what it means really.
> >>>>
> >>>> 73
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Jean Marc (3B8DU)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Jun 20, 2020, at 12:29 PM, Matthias Bopp via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Paul,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> With all due respect. I already tried to explain to you less than
> >>>>> 48 hours ago: this is not just a simple retuned hardware on QO-100
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You stated "It’s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur
> payload at all."
> >>>>>   The payload was specified by AMSAT and during the design AMSAT did
> participate in all critical design reviews. AMSAT indeed first intended to
> build the transponders themselves.
> >>>>>   The owner of the satellite did trust the technical knowhow of
> AMSAT but for safety and insurance reasons the hardware was built by a
> professional company.
> >>>>>   Of course, QO-100 was coordinated via IARU and fully qualifies as
> an amateur satellite (payload). Therefore, it got the number 100 (from
> AMSAT-NA).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You stated "The two transponders in amateur use are on-orbit
> commercial spares modified to tune to amateur frequencies."
> >>>>>   Let me explain it in simple words so you understand: you cannot
> simply retune a WCDMA cellphone and use it as a 2m FM handheld transceiver
> >>>>>   The hardware in commercial satellite transponders is not meant to
> be a linear transponder with an AGC etc.
> >>>>>   In addition, there are no 2.4GHz/10GHz transponders on commercial
> satellites.
> >>>>>   Thus, the hardware had to be custom built for QO-100. The same is
> true for the uplink and downlink antennas. The only parts which are reused
> are the TWT PAs.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So please, if you need help to understand the architecture or the
> published block diagram of the amateur payload please contact the
> responsible people of AMSAT-DL and they will be happy to help you.
> >>>>> But please stop commenting about a satellite you have apparently no
> clue about or you do not understand the underlying technology.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In any case, meanwhile there more than 1000 happy users in more than
> 100 countries who are enjoying QO-100 using many different operating modes.
> >>>>> QO-100 has stimulated a lot of technical activities in the microwave
> bands and a lot of radio amateurs, who never used the microwave bands,
> learned how to build and operate a station with 13cm uplink and 10 GHz
> downlink.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Kind regards
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Matthias
> >>>>>
> >>>>> www.dd1us.de
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> >>>>> Von: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org> Im Auftrag von Paul
> >>>>> Stoetzer via AMSAT-BB
> >>>>> Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Juni 2020 06:21
> >>>>> An: Joe Leikhim <rhyolite at leikhim.com>
> >>>>> Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> >>>>> Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no,
> >>>>> whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Joe,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It’s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur payload at all.
> The two transponders in amateur use are on-orbit commercial spares modified
> to tune to amateur frequencies. And, of course, there’s the risk that the
> spares may be needed for commercial service some day.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The issue is that to get an American company to do this, you need
> millions of dollars up front and then probably millions of dollars a year
> to support it. It’s been looked into multiple times over the years and no
> one is willing to just give that away or even quote a price that’s remotely
> reasonable.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I do take issue with your choice of words in describing GOLF-TEE as
> “baby steps.” GOLF is a project that AMSAT has committed a large amount of
> money and man-hours to. It is a very significant project and will lead us
> back to HEO. Our engineering team is doing tremendous work and deserves the
> full support and encouragement of the amateur community. Sadly, I feel that
> support is often lacking and, frankly, our volunteers deserve better than
> that.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you want a HEO, support AMSAT and GOLF in any way that you can.
> AMSAT is 100% committed and I am personally 100% committed to making this
> happen for the community.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 73,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Paul Stoetzer, N8HM
> >>>>> Executive Vice President
> >>>>> AMSAT
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 00:01 Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB
> >>>>> <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Robert;
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> AMSAT has been in HEO before and can get there again.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The idea of my proposal is to piggy back on a willing commercial
> >>>>>> satellite. The owner of that satellite would be handling the
> >>>>>> necessary regulatory issues/problems.  This idea has been proposed
> >>>>>> before but convincing a commercial satellite owner to attach
> >>>>>> unproven payload has always been an negative argument. No longer,
> >>>>>> because OSCAR-100 is proven hardware and it should be considered.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Meanwhile GOLF-TEE can continue to take baby steps.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Looking for ideas to promote this idea. Be positive.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Joe Leikhim
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Leikhim and Associates
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Communications Consultants
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Oviedo, Florida
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> JLeikhim at Leikhim.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 407-982-0446
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> >>>>>> available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
> membership.
> >>>>>> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not
> >>>>>> reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> >>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
> official views of AMSAT-NA.
> >>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
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> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> >>>>> available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
> >>>>> membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and
> do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> >>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
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> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
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> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
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> AMSAT-NA.
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>