Re: [sarex] ISS Unproto Destination Address

[Bob Bruninga <bruninga@xxxxxxxx>]

On Wed, 26 Sep 2001, Stan Vandiver wrote about Bob's posting that TOCALL's
to other than common "all-calls" will be ignored by thousands of Kenwood
and some APRS software:

> I don't believe it is the sender's responsibility to make sure he is
> seen on the network...
> APRS...[filters] me out for using my name, as I have been choosing to
> do, as the TOCALL.  Yet you are explaining to me how and why I should
> circumvent this "feature" of APRS?

I was only explaining to the original requester the significance of the
"choices" one makes when choosing a TOCALL.  I was not sure that everyone
was aware that the thousands of Kenwood APRS HT's and mobiles would not
see you at all if you used a non generic or non-all-call type of callsign.

> If it were not a "problem" (for the Kenwood users)... then you would
> not be asking the world to change the way they configure their TNC's.

I am not asking anyone to change. I am only offering a response to the
orginal requestor who asked about the significance of chosing a TOCALL.
I thought many would like to know that the Kenwoods and most APRS
software will ignore packets that are not addressed to some of the more
common generic "all-calls" such as CQ, QST, ALL, etc...

> I'm not running APRS, so its all gibberish to me.  Yet you want us to
> accommodate the few people running Kenwood [and APRS].

No, I am not making any such request.  I was only offering an explaination
of the advantages and disadvantages when choosing a TOCALL.

> Why should we not ask all the APRS users to transmit "plain text" so that
> we might enjoy the content of their transmissions too?  There are a
> whole lot more of "us" (plain text users) that would benefit from seeing
> open communications on the ISS than the few people you are speaking for
> that will get to see our once-in- awhile transmissions.

I am sorry that you see this as another ham radio "us" vs "them" issue...
ISS Demos with nothing but an HT in ones hand occur much more frequently
then when someone drags a PC, TNC and Radio outside into a parking lot.

> I'm sorry Bob... I still disagree.  I think you should fix this at the
> software level, not ask the world to fix it at the firmware level.
> You need an OFF button... so your APRS users can bring their stations
> onto a open network.  If you can't fix those that have been sold
> already, then fine... but you can fix what happens in the future.

Nothing is broke and nothing needs fixing.  You and anyone else via ISS
may use any TOCALL they wish.  I was only offering information about the
nuances of such choices...

> I'm sure I will continue to see the gibberish from APRS... that no one
> will be too concerned that I am "left out" of their comms on the (ISS)
> network.  So I may not be too concerned if I "leave out" a few Kenwood
> users either....  I don't care that I'm not included in the APRS'ers
> activities. There is plenty of activity for the Kenwood users too,
> without asking the world (those without APRS)  to accommodate them.
> I think you're taking this way too seriously!  ;-)

Sorry, I did not realize I was taking this too seriously.  I simply
offered an explaination of the benefits of using "CQ".   I simply try to
inform when asked a question...

> Your recommendation to use grid square fixed in the #2 slot is also
> not a good idea, in my opinion.  ... because the path will "fail" when
> it runs into a callsign that won't digipeat it. ... but if your
> users set the path like U CQ V NOCALL,GG##GG,RELAY,WIDE --- then this
> will fail when they get back on the APRS network and not be
> digipeated.

Once a packet is digipeated via a Space digipeater, there is no reason at
all for any further routing information.  Everyone will hear it directly.
THere is no need for the use of RELAY, or WIDE in any space digipeated
packet.  In fact, putting RELAY after NOCALL would be tantamount to a QRM
bomb.  Each such packet would trigger an UPLINK from everyone in the
footprint, assuring maximum QRM over thousands of miles.

> Oops, APRS'ers.... transmit that big long LAT and LON position in the
> data part of the packet.  So this is your idea, again, to tell the
> rest of the world how to configure their TNC's.... right?

Sorry, no.  Again, just an offered suggestion as a way to include one's
grid permanently in a packet without having to re-type it every time.  No
requirement.  Just a suggestion to those keyboard ops looking for an easy
way to include their grid...

> ...But please stop asking the world to be "APRS-friendly"...  When I
> get on the APRS frequency, I will try to accommodate them... but if
> they come onto an open network, then it is they who should try to be
> accommodating.  The ISS is *NOT* an APRS network.... it is a SHARED
> network, and an open network.  We co-exist just fine as it is, in my
> opinion.

Sorry, I never was asking people to change.  I was only offering
information to those people who might not realize that the thousands of
Kenwood APRS radios would not see any packets via ISS if non standard
AX.25 TOCALLs were used.  Anyone may use any TOCALL they want.

But when someone asks on an open forum for the ramifications of the choice
of TOCALL, then it seems reasonable to me to offer a response including
details that may help someone in making a choice of TOCALL..

Actually, in response to this round of discussion, I have added the
ability to parse a grid out of the VIA CALL.  I am asking the other APRS
authors to also consider this option so that we can bring more commonality
between the APRS and Keyboard users on this shared channel..

I  think you missunderstand my motive.  I am not trying to force APRS use
on others, I am actually trying to find ways that we can all communicate
better without adding unnecessary and difficult constructs.  The APRS Grid
square construct has always been difficlut for a keyboarder to use.  I am
glad that as a result of this discussion, I have found a way that makes it
easy for a keyboarder to put it in his VIA path permanently, and then
there is no futther impact on his freedom of expression...

de WB4APR@amsat.org, Bob

ISS-APRS FAQ:       http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/iss-faq.html

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