[amsat-bb] Re: Experimental License for Cubesats

Wed Nov 20 21:41:36 PST 2013

Art,

Very helpful indeed. Thanks for taking the time to clarify for me at 
least - a subject that has at times been both confusing and contentious.

Regards...Bill - N6GHz

On 11/20/2013 8:19 PM, Arthur Feller wrote:
> Hi, Bill,
>
> Go to http://www.fcc.gov and search for “experimental.”  Strongly 
> suggest reading Part 5 of the FCC rules first.  (See: 
> http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/browse/collectionCfr.action?collectionCode=CFR&searchPath=Title+5&oldPath=Title+5&isCollapsed=false&selectedYearFrom=2013&ycord=161. 
>  You may have to wait for Title 47 (Telecommunications) to be added to 
> the 2013 edition, then go to Part 5.)  Make sure you have the version 
> revised this year.
>
> Some thoughts for you.
>
> To the good:  Experimental stations can be assigned to any frequency. 
>  Experimental stations may be licensed for all the purposes listed in 
> Part 5 of the FCC Rules and Regulations.  Commercial ideas can be 
> tried out.  Operators may be paid.  Encryption may be used. 
>  Applications can be made online.  The cost is somewhere around $100.
>
> To the bad:  Operation is secondary to EVERYTHING.  In case of causing 
> harmful interference, the experimental station is required to cure the 
> problem, which usually means being ordered to shut down immediately 
> with no recourse.  In case of suffering harmful interference, it must 
> be tolerated.  (Not a good options for significant investments in time 
> and money.)  Communication is normally permitted only with stations 
> listed on the license.  Communication with regularly licensed stations 
> (including amateur) is forbidden.  International communication is 
> normally forbidden, unless administrations made arrangements in 
> advance.  International coordination is usually required.
>
> One more thing on sharing bands allocated to the amateur-satellite 
> service.  FCC now requires IARU coordination, though they didn’t give 
> IARU notice.  (This story requires several 807’s.)  To help out folks 
> who had already built projects thinking (erroneously) that they could 
> fly as amateur, IARU worked out an arrangement to provide coordination 
> service on a TEMPORARY basis.  Coordination requested in the 144-146 
> MHz will no longer be provided for experimental stations after mid 
> 2014.  See 2013 AMSAT Technical Symposium Proceedings.
>
> IMHO, appropriate radiocommunication services and frequency 
> allocations are already available, can provide international status, 
> and should be applied for, rather than amateur-satellite service 
> frequencies.  Fees will be required, but FCC might waive their fees 
> with a justified request.  ITU fees are normally required, except for 
> amateur stations.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> 73, art…..
> W4ART  Arlington VA
>
> On 20-Nov-2013, at 10:34 PM, Bill Ress <bill at hsmicrowave.com 
> <mailto:bill at hsmicrowave.com>> wrote:
>
>> Art,
>>
>> Aaah! I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for clearing it for me anyway. 
>> Can you point me to the FCC web link where I can understand (apply) 
>> for an experimental license for a Cubesat in the Amateur bands.
>>
>> Regards...Bill - N6GHz
>>
>> On 11/20/2013 4:29 PM, Arthur Feller wrote:
>>> Hi, Bill,
>>>
>>> By special arrangement earlier this year, IARU agreed to provide 
>>> coordination service for experimental stations on an temporary 
>>> basis.  Many of the experimental station operators are also licensed 
>>> amateurs, however that has no bearing on experimental station operation.
>>>
>>> More on this in the 2013 AMSAT Technical Symposium Proceedings.  See 
>>> the article by Hans, ZS6AKV.
>>>
>>> 73, art…..
>>> W4ART  Arlington VA
>>>
>>>
>>> On 20-Nov-2013, at 06:11 PM, Bill Ress <bill at hsmicrowave.com 
>>> <mailto:bill at hsmicrowave.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Art,
>>>>
>>>> Now I'm a little confused by your comment that most Cubesats are 
>>>> licensed as experimental. On yesterdays Minotaur launch, 17 
>>>> Cubesats are operated by Amateurs and were coordinated through the 
>>>> IARU.
>>>>
>>>> Regards...Bill - N6GHz
>>>>
>>>> On 11/20/2013 2:50 PM, Arthur Feller wrote:
>>>>> One thing we learned in bureaucrat school is that jumping to 
>>>>> conclusions is not a healthy exercise.  :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> FCC licensed most of the new cubes as experimental stations and 
>>>>> not as amateur stations.  Experimental stations may be assigned to 
>>>>> any frequency, provided they do not cause harmful interference to 
>>>>> stations operating in accordance with the ITU radio regulations. 
>>>>>  See RR Article 27 and 47 CFR Part 5.
>>>>>
>>>>> These experimental stations are not operating in the 
>>>>> amateur-satellite service, only sharing the bands on a secondary 
>>>>> basis.  They are permitted to communicate only with stations 
>>>>> listed on their license, so it would be inappropriate for them to 
>>>>> seek help from amateurs, though amateurs may certainly listen. 
>>>>>  Note that experimental stations may encrypt their transmissions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some of the satellites, such as TJ3SAT, and some others, are 
>>>>> amateur stations!  Sure would be good for them to make a noise 
>>>>> here on BB!!  (HINT!)
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope this helps.
>>>>>
>>>>> 73, art…..
>>>>> W4ART  Arlington VA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 20-Nov-2013, at 07:56 AM, Stefan Wagener <wageners at gmail.com 
>>>>> <mailto:wageners at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> because their are designed and operated by students and teachers 
>>>>>> with a
>>>>>> valid ham radio licence!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 1:42 AM, Richard Ferryman 
>>>>>> <g4bbh at btinternet.com <mailto:g4bbh at btinternet.com>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then why are those cubesats using amateur frequencies?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dick G4BBH
>>>>>
>>>>> http://afeller.us <http://afeller.us/>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>> Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber 
>>> of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.
>>> -Franklin D. Roosevelt, 32nd US President (1882-1945)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://afeller.us <http://afeller.us/>
>>>
>>
>
> *Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber 
> of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough. *
> *-Franklin D. Roosevelt, 32nd US President (1882-1945) *
> *
> *
>
>
> /http://afeller.us <http://afeller.us/>/
>