[amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?

Thu Aug 6 00:06:27 UTC 2020

Joseph,

This is either ad-hominem or just incomprehensible. I know you are capable
of presenting credible arguments. Please endeavor to do so.

    Thanks

    Bruce

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:59 PM Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster at gmail.com>
wrote:

> John,
>
> I can see it being unhelpful, if you signed on with the guy that i'm
> asking to go away :-)
> ref: https://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html
>
> Cheers,
> Joseph Armbruster
> KJ4JIO
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 5:33 PM John Brier <johnbrier at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "wish you would just stop, go away and maybe work harder at growing ORI"
>>
>> At this point it's clear there are big disagreements and issues that
>> must be worked out so wishing or suggesting people just go away seems
>> unhelpful. Might as well leave this point out as it just muddies the
>> waters around any reasonable points you have.
>>
>> 73, John Brier KG4AKV
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:08 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB
>> <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > Bruce,
>> >
>> >
>> > All your statements about AMSAT leadership are a false narrative that
>> you
>> > and your crew are constantly perpetuating to discredit the organization,
>> > for the sake of securing like-minded individuals on the BOD.  I can only
>> > assume, with the intention of growing ORI?  I mean, you did say they got
>> > three amateur radio in space grants, right?  Why weren't those pursued
>> > through AMSAT?  What you're doing to AMSAT on the bb publicly is quite
>> > sad, though no doubt, coordinated and with intent.  There are many of us
>> > members (some vocal, many not) that really wish you would just stop, go
>> > away and maybe work harder at growing ORI.  This action would directly
>> help
>> > preserve AMSATs integrity and give you a path to direct your effort and
>> > energy more productively.  Think of the problems you could solve if you
>> > were just not being held back..?  I know engineers personally that
>> helped
>> > developed that power supply for ARISS and they are really sharp,
>> *involved
>> > AMSAT members* that from my own observation have invested countless
>> years
>> > of their lives building kit for AMSAT.  I saw it and it's some amazing,
>> > amazing, amazing hardware.  I speak per my observations of these
>> > individuals, not for them.  Every volunteer organization gains and
>> looses
>> > members, all the time, depending on what's going on in their life,
>> state of
>> > the economy, etc...that's not surprising nor necessarily a reflection of
>> > the work taking place within the organization, or its leadership.
>> >
>> >
>> > Joseph Armbruster
>> >
>> > KJ4JIO
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve
>> themselves
>> > > publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other
>> > > organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it an
>> AMSAT
>> > > issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue
>> that,
>> > > and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made
>> several
>> > > weeks ago.
>> > >
>> > > In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a
>> course
>> > > that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active
>> > > volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the
>> membership
>> > > and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and
>> > > appropriate within the context of an election.
>> > >
>> > >     Thanks
>> > >
>> > >     Bruce
>> > >
>> > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
>> > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be
>> > > handled
>> > > > very carefully.
>> > > >
>> > > > For that same reason I think two separate legally established
>> entities
>> > > must
>> > > > discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release.
>> Probably
>> > > > both AMSAT
>> > > > and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of
>> Understanding
>> > > > establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on.
>> > > >
>> > > > Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard
>> > > > friendships)
>> > > >
>> > > > 73
>> > > >
>> > > > Fernando KF7R
>> > > >
>> > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson <
>> > > > mountain.michelle at gmail.com>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Frank sums up the problems very well.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose
>> > > > > opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this
>> and
>> > > > other
>> > > > > problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has
>> happened.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I am optimistic things can and will improve.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -Michelle W5NYV
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <
>> > > > > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
>> calling
>> > > > for
>> > > > >> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
>> > > > ARISS-USA
>> > > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to
>> drag
>> > > > >> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to
>> ARISS,
>> > > and
>> > > > I
>> > > > >> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to
>> sign
>> > > > >> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS
>> name.
>> > > In
>> > > > >> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS.  The
>> > > > functional
>> > > > >> change is that ARISS is assuming  for itself some of the tasks
>> that
>> > > > AMSAT
>> > > > >> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this
>> > > donated
>> > > > >> support!)  The good working relationship that ARISS has had with
>> AMSAT
>> > > > over
>> > > > >> the years is NOT changing.  For more information, read the press
>> > > > release on
>> > > > >> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org
>> (6th
>> > > > >> article down).
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> One item I will remind all of you:  Getting into space is HARD.
>> > > > >> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space
>> mission
>> > > > >> success.  Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in
>> > > > >> organizations and especially in space.  If you all continue these
>> > > > >> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space
>> missions
>> > > > of
>> > > > >> the future.  Space agencies and space corporations only want to
>> work
>> > > > with
>> > > > >> folks that are dedicated to mission success.  I ask all to get
>> over
>> > > your
>> > > > >> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see
>> AMSAT
>> > > lose
>> > > > >> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken
>> decades to
>> > > > >> build.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> 73,  Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
>> > > > >> ARISS-USA Executive Director
>> > > > >> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > > > >> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb at wd9ewk.net>
>> > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM
>> > > > >> To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer at gmail.com>; AMSAT <
>> > > > >> amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> > > > >> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Fernando,
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there
>> > > should
>> > > > >> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of
>> March.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on
>> legal
>> > > > >> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter
>> AMSAT
>> > > > >> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in
>> > > mid-March, I
>> > > > >> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary
>> control
>> > > > >> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has
>> not
>> > > > >> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it
>> appears
>> > > > AMSAT
>> > > > >> is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
>> calling
>> > > for
>> > > > a
>> > > > >> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
>> > > > ARISS-USA
>> > > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
>> > > > >> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his
>> notes
>> > > > >> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and
>> review them
>> > > > with
>> > > > >> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other
>> 5
>> > > > >> directors - including the two running for reelection this summer
>> -
>> > > have
>> > > > >> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but
>> has
>> > > > chosen
>> > > > >> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other
>> issues,
>> > > > >> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made
>> available
>> > > > to
>> > > > >> AMSAT members.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Thank you.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
>> > > > >> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
>> > > > >> Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> _______________________________________________
>> > > > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>> available
>> > > > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> > > > >> Opinions expressed
>> > > > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>> views
>> > > of
>> > > > >> AMSAT-NA.
>> > > > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> > > > program!
>> > > > >> Subscription settings:
>> > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>> available
>> > > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> > > Opinions
>> > > > expressed
>> > > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>> views of
>> > > > AMSAT-NA.
>> > > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> > > program!
>> > > > Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
>> eventually
>> > > :-)
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions
>> > > expressed
>> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of
>> > > AMSAT-NA.
>> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > > Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>

-- 
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)