[amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
Kevin
wa7fwf at gmail.com
Mon Jul 13 13:13:38 UTC 2020
Bruce & Michelle,
I have no issue with Bruce writing it, I have no issue with a
candidate using the mailing list, the issue I have is if ORI/Bruce was
mailing it for them and ORI/Bruce having the list.
Had a candidate used the list and a candidate mailed it under their
name and then ORI reimbursed them later for their costs later I would
have no issue with that either.
Since we are all keen about following the rules, the bylaws say "Duly
nominated and eligible candidates shall be afforded equal opportunity to
circulate statements of their qualifications and positions to the
Members through the corporation’s publications and shall have use of the
corporation’s mailing lists for election-related purposes at no cost to
the corporation."
It does not say the candidates representatives or other organizations
that the candidate may belong to can have access to the list.
AMSAT says they did not give the data to ORI, which I believe and you
have confirmed that it was indeed you, yet it appeared as a ORI/Bruce
mailing, If it was mailed through ORI's bulk mailer or ORI picked up the
cost then I would say it was treated as ORI business, and ORI has no
business having the that list, *That* is improper.
Michelle, you are saying now that you were the only one that was in
control of the list and the only one that dealt with the printer, that
is good.
Although I'm still not clear why no one running wanted their return
address on the mailing, a quick lookup on QRZ has everyone's address, by
using the return address you did you created the appearance of a 3rd
party having the mailing list and thus created this problem, using
time/cost as an excuse is not very good, anyone running for office could
have used their address and then one line added to the doc stating that
the mailing represented all candidates and avoided all of this.
If it was made clear later that this was not an ORI mailing with ORI in
control of the list I did not see it, was this sent to the BB or where
can I find this correction posted?
One has to maintain a chain of control of private data, I did not
know if this was done. I do not know if the bulk mailer you used still
has the AMSAT mailing list on file, or if it was deleted once done, and
if still on file who has access to it?
I know this may look like I'm splitting hairs here but I hope you
agree that any org should always be clear and capable of proving that
they have handled data responsibly.
Kevin WA7FWF #19623
On 7/12/2020 10:30 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
> The candidate felt that since I wrote the letter, that the return
> address should be mine. I didn't ask for it, I especially did not ask
> for my home address, which is not in the call book, to be used. As it
> happens, I found out about one silent key member in the return mail,
> which I passed on and promptly forgot. I work for lawyers all day in
> my consulting business, and thus I read the rules, I understand the
> rules, I follow the rules. These are not, by the way, Robert's Rules
> of Order. These are things like what a director is responsible for,
> and how to run an election. It really bothers me that the incumbents
> didn't know those rules.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bruce
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 10:11 PM Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com
> <mailto:wa7fwf at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Well Bruce,
>
> Something doesn't jive here, " I didn't do the mailing . I
> only wrote the content " then it seems the candidate would have
> been the person that was dealing with the bulk mailer and would
> have had their return address listed and it would not have been
> your home address on it.
>
> Guess it's time to pick a different bulk mailer.
>
>
> Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>
>
>
>
> On 7/12/2020 9:48 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
>> Kevin,
>>
>> No, I never saw the mailing list . I didn't do the mailing . I
>> only wrote the content .
>>
>> So, why was I involved at all ?
>>
>> I won't say I'm the best tech evangelist you know, because that
>> is for other people to judge. However, if you count the Open
>> Source movement in software; the campaign for the elimination of
>> the Morse code requirement for Amateur Radio licenses, which
>> among other things I got on the front page of the New York Times,
>> above the fold; My work to help elect a new ARRL board to end the
>> confidentiality versus transparency debacle; And my global
>> appearance for IBM's "Dear Tech", campaign, which got at least
>> 50000 television and Internet airplays;
>>
>> If you count all those things, I am probably the person you want
>> introducing you as a candidate, and I might be a good person to
>> tell you how to run a campaign.
>>
>> As it happens I wrote my own campaign, which I was going to put
>> out under my own name, endorsing those candidates. And then the
>> candidates chose to use it as their main campaign statement. This
>> was very flattering and entirely their own choice.
>>
>> As an ARRL member, it was my right to participate in their
>> election, and it is my right to participate in AMSAT's.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Bruce K6BP
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:29 PM Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com
>> <mailto:wa7fwf at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Bruce,
>> So hang on a moment, you're telling me that the candidates
>> are allowed to use the mailing list for their campaign
>> (fine), but rather than them doing it themselves they turned
>> the task over to you? So you were in possession of the
>> mailing list and then you turned it over to the bulk mailing
>> center when you authored the mailer?
>>
>> Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/12/2020 9:08 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
>>> The candidates are allowed the use of the mailing list for
>>> their campaign. If you read the bylaws, they make it very
>>> clear. One of the candidates did all of the handling of the
>>> mailing list.
>>>
>>> Incidentally, the board was not aware that they had to give
>>> the mailing list to the candidates. This was something the
>>> candidates had to tell them, after I read the bylaws. Had
>>> the board run things the way they desired, only a board
>>> controlled 200 word statement would have reached you from
>>> the candidates, except for the incumbents, who have had free
>>> use of AMSAT's official publications to carry their opinions.
>>>
>>> In a more perfect world, the board would have known their
>>> own bylaws, or at least the secretary who was running the
>>> election would have read them.
>>>
>>> But in a more perfect world, two people were trying to
>>> reform the organization with not face quite this uphill a
>>> battle.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:00 PM Kevin <wa7fwf at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:wa7fwf at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Well how did the bulk mailing company get the AMSAT
>>> member mailing list if AMSAT did not provide it?
>>>
>>> Kevin
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/12/2020 8:32 PM, Bruce Perens wrote:
>>>> The mailing list was never compromised. But my HOME
>>>> address, under "Open Research Institute" was used as
>>>> the return address. This was a mistake and I didn't ask
>>>> for it. I was, however, the author of the mailer, in
>>>> which I introduced the candidates. The mailing was done
>>>> by a bulk Mail company and did not involve me. I got
>>>> one returned letter, informed someone responsible who
>>>> had a right to see that address, and promptly forgot it.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Bruce
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 7:11 PM Kevin via AMSAT-BB
>>>> <amsat-bb at amsat.org <mailto:amsat-bb at amsat.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello All,
>>>>
>>>> In a previous email to the BB I posted the link
>>>> to the letter we all
>>>> received as members.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Leadership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
>>>>
>>>> I was re-reading it and something caught my eye
>>>> that I had missed before.
>>>>
>>>> "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership
>>>> mailing addresses to
>>>> Open Research Institute."
>>>>
>>>> Just how was our mailing list compromised? This
>>>> seems like a serious
>>>> breech of security, was this a hack? was any other
>>>> information lost?
>>>> was it ever found out how it happened? is our
>>>> mailing list as they say
>>>> "out in the wind"?
>>>>
>>>> Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side
>>>> and backtrack how
>>>> ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list,
>>>> was it something
>>>> that was procured online?
>>>>
>>>> AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and
>>>> report back what it
>>>> found and any steps that were taken to prevent this
>>>> from happening in
>>>> the future.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I look forward to an answer
>>>>
>>>> 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect
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>>>
>>
>
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