[amsat-bb] FM Satellite HT Night Proposal

Sat Jul 25 23:25:24 UTC 2020

Bruce, et al,

I appreciate the thought you put into the challenges that the proposal's
implementation would face as far as obtaining full compliance, but the
logical mistake is to perceive this as an all-or-nothing situation,
ie.either we achieve notification of all possible users, or we shouldn't
implement the idea.  I think we'd all agree that's not a reasonable
standard.  In fact, I'd suggest that a reasonable effort to put the word
out is all that is necessary and appropriate.

Just because communication of the policy would be difficult certainly does
not equate to not implementing the policy.  After all, we have all sorts of
laws all around the world and we don't get perfect notification (or
compliance) there either, but the laws are none the less implemented.
Discretion in enforcement becomes part of that approach and solution.

We certainly already do that... we have people trying out satellites for
the first time on a regular basis and they certainly don't know the best
practices or policies, not to mention the rules.  In fact you cite these
very things as happening today and that is exactly why it would be just
fine to implement an idea like this.  We wouldn't be facing anything new in
terms of on-the-air occurrences.  And just because we couldn't guarantee
perfect outcomes 100% of the time is certainly no reason to reject the
idea.  The fact that we are able to add new ideas, practices, change rules,
and do all sorts of other stuff on a regular basis and to do so without
huge issues is the reason this idea SHOULD be implemented.

This is a hobby that boasts of an extraordinary ability to not only
communicate in an array of ways, but adaptability that few other pursuits
can claim.  I'm confident that we (as a hobby) could easily accommodate and
adapt to working with an idea like Walter proposed.

It certainly would encourage a lot more people to operate (for instance,
one of the clubs I belong to has had in the last year, two presentations on
operating satellites and during Q&A the following came up: the challenge of
getting through when other stations are running more power and the sense of
hopelessness caused people to set aside the gear and stop trying.)

73,
Grant Hopper
KB7WSD

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 2:54 PM Bruce via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
wrote:

> This is a great idea. However, have you thought about how you would let
> all satellite operators know? The amsat-bb only reaches so many. Twitter
> and FaceBook reach some of the same but still not all the operators.
> Then you have operators that are not members of AMSAT, the amsat-bb,
> Twitter and FaceBook. If you heard them on the satellite that one day,
> would you be telling them this day is for HT's only? They may not be
> AMSAT members, they use an online tracking program and have no idea of
> the new rules other than there is a satellite passing over and I am
> going to work someone. Or, it was their only day off that week. What if
> someone actually forgot that today is HT day and was operating with 500
> watts (just saying, there are 1kw linears for VHF) from home which by
> the way is a total waste of electricity and against the FCC rules. I
> still have my 170 watt VHF and 100 watt UHF linears from AO-10/AO-13
> days sitting on the shelf.
>
> You can see how this would be nearly impossible to notify everyone. A
> good example is AMSAT Field Day. It is a 24 hour period. For some 10
> years we do not allow contacts on FM satellites beyond 1 per satellite.
> The reason is to allow space for those trying to make their ARRL
> satellite bonus points enough time. You can still make all the contacts
> you want on the FM satellites but we will only score 1 per satellite
> towards AMSAT Field Day. As expected several reported multiple contacts
> on an FM satellite and their score was adjusted. Field Day rules are
> written up in the Journal, on the AMSAT website, in ANS and various
> other locations. Yet, there are mistakes and they make multiple
> contacts. Sometimes the extra contact is unavoidable. You work your
> first contact and because your signal was so good, someone heard you and
> calls you. Instead of leaving them in the dust, you answer their call
> and give them their bonus points. You just cannot submit it for your
> AMSAT Field Day score.
>
> This is the type of problem I think you would have if you were to try
> and make one day an HT day. Being a great idea to have a low power day
> it would be hard to let everyone know. Any suggestions on the
> notification process?
>
> I think some of the frustration of new operators is not really having an
> HT day, it would be the thinning of the crowds. Satellites have become
> very popular in recent years and low cost HT's have made entry into
> working them a lot easier. With any FM single channel repeater, when you
> have two people trying to use it, it is a cake walk. When you have 100
> operators across the country all trying to get in, there is still only
> two that are going to make a contact. I have experienced the issue, I
> roved with an HT and Arrow and I too had problems getting in. The
> easiest contact for us in South Texas is when a satellite is ascending
> from the South and we are one of the first in the states to be in the
> window. Make a contact and done before the rest of the U.S. is in the
> window. Same for those in the North when there is a descending pass.
> Sometimes you have to make the satellite location work in your favor. It
> also works when you are the last in the window towards LOS. Or, for left
> and right coast only passes there is less of the U.S. in the window.
> These are natural thinning of the operators due to the satellite's
> position.
>
> 73...bruce
>
> On 7/25/2020 3:43 PM, Doug Daniels via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > I am brand new to Satellites, and just made my first Q with my two HTs. I
> > will never have the facilities to have anything more extensive than HTs
> and
> > a Arrow/Elk type antenna. This type of agreement would be incredibly
> > beneficial to me and those like me.
> >
> > Great idea, thanks.
> >
> > 73,
> > Doug, K1RDD
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 2:00 AM Walter Holmes via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> >
> >> A little food for thought:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Any idea what the chances would be of having something like 1 night a
> week
> >> or month, on ONE of the FM birds, that could be reserved for HT access
> only?
> >>
> >>
>
> >>
> >> My thinking on this would be a great way for people to test out their
> >> portable or limited satellite stations with a great deal less collisions
> >> against all the other much stronger stations.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I have heard from plenty of people that would like to try a temporary or
> >> portable station on the birds, but we all know that’s not even a remote
> >> possibility unless your on super early in the morning or late at night.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ie..  it would be great to see how many people could test and build
> their
> >> skills to operate with an HT and an arrow or something, kinda like the
> old
> >> days. 😊
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Just dreaming out-loud. 😊
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Walter/K5WH
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> >> expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> >> AMSAT-NA.
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> >>
> >
>
>
> --
>
> Bruce Paige, KK5DO
>
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> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>