[amsat-bb] FM Satellite HT Night Proposal

Sun Jul 26 00:46:18 UTC 2020

Over here in Indonesia we put the “HT only” note on the weekly IO-86 schedule as announced by LAPAN thru their fb/ig/twitter channel.

And reminders thru postings in various WhatsApp groups.

73 de Yono - YD0NXX 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 26, 2020, at 6:31 AM, Grant Hopper via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
> 
> Bruce, et al,
> 
> I appreciate the thought you put into the challenges that the proposal's
> implementation would face as far as obtaining full compliance, but the
> logical mistake is to perceive this as an all-or-nothing situation,
> ie.either we achieve notification of all possible users, or we shouldn't
> implement the idea.  I think we'd all agree that's not a reasonable
> standard.  In fact, I'd suggest that a reasonable effort to put the word
> out is all that is necessary and appropriate.
> 
> Just because communication of the policy would be difficult certainly does
> not equate to not implementing the policy.  After all, we have all sorts of
> laws all around the world and we don't get perfect notification (or
> compliance) there either, but the laws are none the less implemented.
> Discretion in enforcement becomes part of that approach and solution.
> 
> We certainly already do that... we have people trying out satellites for
> the first time on a regular basis and they certainly don't know the best
> practices or policies, not to mention the rules.  In fact you cite these
> very things as happening today and that is exactly why it would be just
> fine to implement an idea like this.  We wouldn't be facing anything new in
> terms of on-the-air occurrences.  And just because we couldn't guarantee
> perfect outcomes 100% of the time is certainly no reason to reject the
> idea.  The fact that we are able to add new ideas, practices, change rules,
> and do all sorts of other stuff on a regular basis and to do so without
> huge issues is the reason this idea SHOULD be implemented.
> 
> This is a hobby that boasts of an extraordinary ability to not only
> communicate in an array of ways, but adaptability that few other pursuits
> can claim.  I'm confident that we (as a hobby) could easily accommodate and
> adapt to working with an idea like Walter proposed.
> 
> It certainly would encourage a lot more people to operate (for instance,
> one of the clubs I belong to has had in the last year, two presentations on
> operating satellites and during Q&A the following came up: the challenge of
> getting through when other stations are running more power and the sense of
> hopelessness caused people to set aside the gear and stop trying.)
> 
> 73,
> Grant Hopper
> KB7WSD
> 
>> On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 2:54 PM Bruce via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> This is a great idea. However, have you thought about how you would let
>> all satellite operators know? The amsat-bb only reaches so many. Twitter
>> and FaceBook reach some of the same but still not all the operators.
>> Then you have operators that are not members of AMSAT, the amsat-bb,
>> Twitter and FaceBook. If you heard them on the satellite that one day,
>> would you be telling them this day is for HT's only? They may not be
>> AMSAT members, they use an online tracking program and have no idea of
>> the new rules other than there is a satellite passing over and I am
>> going to work someone. Or, it was their only day off that week. What if
>> someone actually forgot that today is HT day and was operating with 500
>> watts (just saying, there are 1kw linears for VHF) from home which by
>> the way is a total waste of electricity and against the FCC rules. I
>> still have my 170 watt VHF and 100 watt UHF linears from AO-10/AO-13
>> days sitting on the shelf.
>> 
>> You can see how this would be nearly impossible to notify everyone. A
>> good example is AMSAT Field Day. It is a 24 hour period. For some 10
>> years we do not allow contacts on FM satellites beyond 1 per satellite.
>> The reason is to allow space for those trying to make their ARRL
>> satellite bonus points enough time. You can still make all the contacts
>> you want on the FM satellites but we will only score 1 per satellite
>> towards AMSAT Field Day. As expected several reported multiple contacts
>> on an FM satellite and their score was adjusted. Field Day rules are
>> written up in the Journal, on the AMSAT website, in ANS and various
>> other locations. Yet, there are mistakes and they make multiple
>> contacts. Sometimes the extra contact is unavoidable. You work your
>> first contact and because your signal was so good, someone heard you and
>> calls you. Instead of leaving them in the dust, you answer their call
>> and give them their bonus points. You just cannot submit it for your
>> AMSAT Field Day score.
>> 
>> This is the type of problem I think you would have if you were to try
>> and make one day an HT day. Being a great idea to have a low power day
>> it would be hard to let everyone know. Any suggestions on the
>> notification process?
>> 
>> I think some of the frustration of new operators is not really having an
>> HT day, it would be the thinning of the crowds. Satellites have become
>> very popular in recent years and low cost HT's have made entry into
>> working them a lot easier. With any FM single channel repeater, when you
>> have two people trying to use it, it is a cake walk. When you have 100
>> operators across the country all trying to get in, there is still only
>> two that are going to make a contact. I have experienced the issue, I
>> roved with an HT and Arrow and I too had problems getting in. The
>> easiest contact for us in South Texas is when a satellite is ascending
>> from the South and we are one of the first in the states to be in the
>> window. Make a contact and done before the rest of the U.S. is in the
>> window. Same for those in the North when there is a descending pass.
>> Sometimes you have to make the satellite location work in your favor. It
>> also works when you are the last in the window towards LOS. Or, for left
>> and right coast only passes there is less of the U.S. in the window.
>> These are natural thinning of the operators due to the satellite's
>> position.
>> 
>> 73...bruce
>> 
>>> On 7/25/2020 3:43 PM, Doug Daniels via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>>> I am brand new to Satellites, and just made my first Q with my two HTs. I
>>> will never have the facilities to have anything more extensive than HTs
>> and
>>> a Arrow/Elk type antenna. This type of agreement would be incredibly
>>> beneficial to me and those like me.
>>> 
>>> Great idea, thanks.
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Doug, K1RDD
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 2:00 AM Walter Holmes via AMSAT-BB <
>>> amsat-bb at amsat.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> A little food for thought:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Any idea what the chances would be of having something like 1 night a
>> week
>>>> or month, on ONE of the FM birds, that could be reserved for HT access
>> only?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> 
>>>> My thinking on this would be a great way for people to test out their
>>>> portable or limited satellite stations with a great deal less collisions
>>>> against all the other much stronger stations.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I have heard from plenty of people that would like to try a temporary or
>>>> portable station on the birds, but we all know that’s not even a remote
>>>> possibility unless your on super early in the morning or late at night.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Ie..  it would be great to see how many people could test and build
>> their
>>>> skills to operate with an HT and an arrow or something, kinda like the
>> old
>>>> days. 😊
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Just dreaming out-loud. 😊
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Walter/K5WH
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> Opinions
>>>> expressed
>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>>> AMSAT-NA.
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>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Bruce Paige, KK5DO
>> 
>> AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
>> AMSAT Board Member 2016-2020
>> 
>> ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
>> 
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>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB at amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb